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Message-ID: Anyone noticed this before? ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: 1 Jan 1998 09:54:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19980101095451.25998.qmail at suburbia.net> From: proff at suburbia.net To: proff at suburbia.net Subject:home.html Scoop the Grim Reaper! Who will live? Who will die? And who will win the grand prize in Dewey's Death Pool -- an all-expense paid, two-day Hollywood Death Tour for two. Or one of four quarterly prizes -- a fabulous celebrity death library. It's fun, it's easy -- and all you have to do to win is correctly forecast more celebrity deaths for the calendar year 1998 than any other entrant. Here's how it works: Between now and December 31, 1997, fill out an entry form, listing your picks in descending likelihood of death. For instance, if you believe Celebrity X is a cinch to die within the year, list him or her in the No. 1 slot, followed by your second most likely choice in the No. 2 slot, etc. For tie-breaking reasons, a correct pick in the top slot is worth 10 points, a correct pick in the second is worth 9 points, and so forth. (Please list an alternative name in the event that one of your choices dies before the game begins. The alternative will be substituted in the empty slot and you will not receive credit for the original name.) At the end of the year, the contestant with the most correct picks wins. If there's a tie, the winner will be the person with the highest point total. In the event of a point-tie, the contestant with the youngest decedent will win. Judges' decisions are final. In addition, quarterly prizes (an assortment of guide books, maps, videos and other celebrity death memoribilia) will be awarded for the most correct picks within the four three-month intervals ending 11:59 EST on March 31, June 30, September 30 and December 31, 1998. In the event of ties, tie-breaker rules described above apply. Standings will be updated on the site regularly. To qualify as a correct "hit," a death must be noted in one or more of the following publications: New York Times, Los Angeles Times, U.S.A. Today, Time, Newsweek or People. Paid obituaries do not count; the death notice MUST appear in the context of a news story, roundup item or editorial obituary. If someone's death is not mentioned in one of the above publications, you will not receive credit. You will not receive credit for a death if you somehow contribute to that person's demise. If there's any dispute over the exact date of a celebrity's demise, information listed on the death certificate will prevail. Dewey's Death Pool is open to residents of the 50 United States and the District of Columbia who are 18 years or older. For complete rules, see the Official Rules. [INLINE] home | entry | rules _________________________________________________________________ Back to Webb Page Confidential ------- End of forwarded message ------- From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 1 03:33:28 1998 From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:33:28 +0800 Subject: HIP97 photos & hate speech in list opinions Message-ID: <199801010104.BAA04808@notatla.demon.co.uk> Cpunks (and Bcc list), I've had a kind offer from Judith to scan my HIP photos and display them on the web (www.sabotage.org). This should happen in a few days. The photos include Alex, Judith, DDT, Ulf, Ian Grigg, Lucky, Sameer, Joichi and others. 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From PleaseCall at 1-800-260-7099-Ext.212030  Thu Jan  1 21:57:42 1998
From: PleaseCall at 1-800-260-7099-Ext.212030 (PleaseCall at 1-800-260-7099-Ext.212030)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:57:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Earn FREE Gasoline and Long Distance !
Message-ID: <6205121_97743995>



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From ravage at ssz.com  Thu Jan  1 06:38:09 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:38:09 +0800
Subject: Long-distance limits on Bells unconstitutional [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801011456.IAA11379@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>    Federal judge says long-distance
>    restrictions on Bells unconstitutional
>    
>    December 31, 1997: 7:02 p.m. ET
>    
>    SBC Communications
>    More related sites... WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A federal judge Wednesday
>    threw out as unconstitutional provisions of a landmark federal law
>    that restrict the regional Baby Bells from entering the $80 billion
>    long-distance telephone market, SBC Communications Inc. said.
>    [INLINE] San Antonio-based SBC said U.S. District Judge Joe Kendall
>    sided with the carrier, which had charged that the Telecommunications
>    Act of 1996 was unconstitutional because it discriminated against SBC
>    and the other four Baby Bells.
>    [INLINE] The New Year's Eve ruling is expected to send shock waves
>    through the telecom industry and throw into further disarray the
>    Federal Communications Commission's efforts to break open the $100
>    billion local phone market controlled by the Bells.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
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   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
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   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Fri Jan  2 01:16:23 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:16:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 2 '98
Message-ID: <19980102081607.23798.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Jan  1 10:32:33 1998
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:32:33 +0800
Subject: Peter Huber on the Orwellian Falacy
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: oldbear at pop.tiac.net
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:09:58 -0500
To: Digital Commerce Society of Boston 
From: The Old Bear 
Subject: Peter Huber on the Orwellian Falacy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: The Old Bear 


   HIGH-TECH'S LIBERATING EFFECT

   As the Internet makes inroads into information-restrictive nations,
   such as China, efforts to limit access to only "desirable" ideas
   are doomed to failure, say experts.

   "The complaint one hears against the Internet isn't that there is
   too little speech," says Manhattan Institute analyst Peter Huber.
   "Instead, the argument is that there is too much hateful or
   pornographic speech.

   Stalin manipulated the past, altering photos and just wiping
   people and events out of the historical record.  But today,
   documents and photos get downloaded and stored in files all over
   the world.  You can make corrupt copies, false copies, but you
   can't erase real copies now."

   Huber, author of the book "Orwell's Revenge," applauds the move
   by industry to make encryption products widely available:  "It
   means that we can now create a zone of privacy that the government
   can't penetrate.  That's the exact opposite of what Orwell through
   would happen."

   source: Investor's Business Daily
           December 30, 1997
           as summarized by Edupage



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 







From rdl at mit.edu  Thu Jan  1 10:58:42 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:58:42 +0800
Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns]
Message-ID: 



Tim May  continues the sniping discussion:

>I haven't seen Jim's reaction to my point about bolt-action rifles still
>being far and away the favored weapon for sniping. Neither an AR-15 variant
>nor an HK variant are advised for long-range shots (though either will of
>course be capable of such shots...it's just that one wants the absolute
>best precsion, and cycling rate is largely immaterial).

In a rich target environment where you're firing from concealment, I think it 
is better to have a semiauto 7.62mmN rifle such as an accurized  HK91 or a 
national match M1A, assuming the enemy has snipers or long-range antisniper
weaponry.  Why?

1) It is likely to be a target rich environment.  USMC sniper doctrine is
mainly single target single kill attacks from outside 600 yards.  Former
Soviet and US Army snipers mainly engaged multiple targets inside that
range for tactical support.  Defending against a raid is primarily
tactical support sniping, killing the vice president of a country other than
the US is primarily USMC style scout/sniping.

Thus, in defending against a raid, Soviet-style weapons are probably better.
7.62x54R Dra----v rifles are probably a good model -- iirc (I've never
fired one), they're semi auto bullpups.  [eeek, www.guns.ru is selling them
with bayonets!  tactical close range sniping, aye!].  Or the SEAL sniper
weapon -- an accurized M14, which is basically an M1A.  With a good scope
and better trigger, an M14/M1A can be 1 MOA, and it's a real battle rifle,
with the ability to engage multiple targets quickly due to the semi-auto
action.

Also, when you're operating without a spotter/security man, it's nice to
have the ability to quickly kill anyone in close.  With an M1A, you just move
from your concealment, kill, and return, wasting a minimum of time.  I guess
in a home you could just keep an AR-15 next to you for such close-in dealings,
though.

2) In my (somewhat limited) experience, many field-improvised concealment
locations are great during firing, but when you move to cycle the action
on a bolt action rifle, you make the concealment shake or otherwise reveal
yourself.  Against a force with sniper/antisniper weaponry, that will likely
bring down a hail of fire, which is suboptimal at best.  USMC snipers generally
solve this by firing once and leaving, since it's confusing and hard to
localize on a single gunshot, but in a target rich environment, you might
not be able to move.  And they may have you surrounded, so it's hard
to move without being seen.

3) A semi-auto is generally more useful for non-sniping tasks.  I can barely
carry an M1A, spare ammo, supplies, etc. for a couple days without being
annoyed at the weight -- I sure wouldn't want to add a SMG or assault carbine
to that.  I would not have a problem with using a battle rifle/sniper rifle
against a force armed with assault carbines and SMGs, though.

True, this may be less of an issue inside a house, since you could just leave
all your supplies cached throughout.  I still thing you need to remain 
concealed and hopefully in cover, and if they bring heavy weapons to bear,
you are going to have to move around the house, at least.  A PSG-1 ends
up being cheaper than 10 match-grade Remington 700s -- besides, the scope
is much more expensive than the gun anyway (perhaps I just like overly
expensive scopes)


All that being said, for field use and home defense, if I'm alone, I'd
take a barrett .50 browning for long-range USMC-style scout-sniping, or
antimateriel sniping, and either a PSG-1 if money is no object (it's not
*that* expensive, if you actually use it), or the German Army sniping
system (or my^H^Ha national match M1A or M14) if money is only somewhat
an object, or a Dragunov if money is a limiting factor, for anti-sniping
or support sniping.  And I strongly feel anti-raid sniping is of the
latter category.

(True, your gun is the best 7.62 USMC-style rifle other than the PSG-1..)

Even better than that would be the addition of a spotter/security person
with an M16 :)  And some nice *cover* for where you fire from, in the form
of earth, concrete, sandbags, or Spectra.  And if the sky is the limit,
something to engage light armor, like a 20mm rifle or tactical air support :)



*ObCrypto!*:
The choice of cryptographic tools is somewhat like the choice of sniper
weaponry.

A OTP is remarkably like a bolt-action rifle of infinite accuracy.  Say, a 
USAF prototype 20mm laser guided sniper rifle.  Use it twice in the
same place, and get slagged in automatic cannon fire.  However, it is ideal
for "one shot one kill" perfect secrecy.

A steganographically-protected data stream is much like a silenced
subsonic carbine.

A remailer network is much like a remote electrically-fired weapon (someone
at a pistol match tried this with a free pistol, won, and the technique
was banned the next year :)

PGP is the PSS -- pretty [good] sniping system, pretty good precision.  
Useful for a lot of things, and since it's one of the better tools, it 
gets used for a lot of things where another solution might be better. :)

Of course, I'd be kind of biased to call a working Eternity implementation
and/or working and distributed digital cash system the PSG-1.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		






From ravage at ssz.com  Thu Jan  1 11:05:30 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:05:30 +0800
Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801011919.NAA11887@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns]
> From: Ryan Lackey 
> Date: 01 Jan 1998 13:47:02 -0500

> 2) In my (somewhat limited) experience, many field-improvised concealment
> locations are great during firing, but when you move to cycle the action
> on a bolt action rifle, you make the concealment shake or otherwise reveal
> yourself.  Against a force with sniper/antisniper weaponry, that will likely

> All that being said, for field use and home defense, if I'm alone, I'd
> take a barrett .50 browning for long-range USMC-style scout-sniping, or

You obviously haven't seen the flash or the dust cloud from one of these
beasties fired from ground level. Hiding at anything less than a mile is not
something you're going to do very well.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From schear at lvdi.net  Thu Jan  1 11:14:35 1998
From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:14:35 +0800
Subject: Mobile phones used as trackers
Message-ID: 



>                Mobile phones used as trackers 
>                BY MICHAEL EVANS AND NIGEL HAWKES 
>
>  MOBILE PHONES can be used as tracking devices to
>  pinpoint users within a few hundred yards, according to a
>  report yesterday. 
>
>  Sonntags Zeitung, published in Zurich, said Swiss police
>  had been secretly tracking mobile phone users through a
>  telephone company computer. 
>
>  "Swisscom [the state-owned telephone company] has
>  stored data on the movements of more than a million
>  mobile phone users and can call up the location of all its
>  mobile subscribers down to a few hundred metres and
>  going back at least half a year," the paper reports, adding:
>  "When it has to, it can exactly reconstruct, down to the
>  minute, who met whom, where and for how long for a
>  confidential tte--tte." 

Anyone who desires not to be constantly tracked should carry a one-way pager and keep your cell phone turned off.  This way you can return calls when it suits you and from a location of your choosing. In some U.S. localities I understand, it it possible to rent cellphone w/o offering any form of ID, only a deposit to cover the instrument and a prepayment for the airtime  This may be illegal in some EU countries.  To keep someone from correlating your pager info and cellular you'd want your callers to send 'coded' info, rather than phone numbers.

--Steve

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear              | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO                       | fax: (702) 658-2673
Lammar Laboratories       |
7075 West Gowan Road      |
Suite 2148                |
Las Vegas, NV 89129       | Internet: schear at lvdi.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------







From tcmay at got.net  Thu Jan  1 11:23:23 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:23:23 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 2:52 AM -0800 1/1/98, Julian Assange wrote:
>Anyone noticed this before?
>
>------- Start of forwarded message -------
>Date: 1 Jan 1998 09:54:51 -0000
>Message-ID: <19980101095451.25998.qmail at suburbia.net>
>From: proff at suburbia.net
>To: proff at suburbia.net
>Subject:home.html
>
>
>
>                           Scoop the Grim Reaper!
>
>                               Who will live?
>
>                               Who will die?

Yeah, a few people pointed this out when Bell's "Assassination Politics"
stuff began hitting the CP list, circa fall of 1995.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From pooh at efga.org  Thu Jan  1 11:30:43 1998
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:30:43 +0800
Subject: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199712312107.PAA09410@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980101141316.0362f05c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



At 03:07 PM 12/31/97 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:06:46 -0500
>> From: "Robert A. Costner" 
>> Subject: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers
>
>>   * To be announced
>>     hosted by Jon Lebkowsky of EF-Texas
>
>Woah Nelly, this is the first I have heard of EF-Tx, got any contact info?

There have always been two groups in Texas, one in Austin, and one in
Houston, I think.  Austin is of course the famous home of the Steve Jackson
raids.  Rumor has it that the two groups are merging into one to be called
something similar to EF-Texas.  If you want more info, you'll have to get
it from Jon Lebkowsky, Gene Crick, or one of the others in Texas.  I'm sure
Jon will address this during his chat.

Hopefully we'll have the text of the chat session, or at least the first
hour, on a web page after the chat.  Jon's chat session will be on
Wednesday, January 7, 1998 at 7:00 EST (5:00pm Pacific)

The session hosted by EF Australia should be Saturday, January 17, 1998 at
8:00pm EST (11:00am Sunday, Brisbane, AU), Hosted by Greg Taylor of
Electronic Frontiers Australia.  (maybe 7:00 EST - it is not set in stone)

To be honest, I'm getting confused on the time zones.  Today I noticed a
mistake I made earlier when I added when I should have subtracted.  Plus I
haven't figured out Australia and GMT time yet, to do it without thinking.
More info about times, and hopefully any corrections can be found at

	http://www.efga.org/about/meeting.html


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh at efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key






From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com  Thu Jan  1 11:32:22 1998
From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:32:22 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199801011858.KAA07272@sirius.infonex.com>



Okay, I'd like to set up a remailer - but I don't know where to start! Unfortunatly it's going to have to run on an NT 4.0 box, so the winsock remailer is out of the question, right? And I'm not in the US, so I can't use the juno stuff -- so what (if anything) *can* I use?

Thanks for any help...










From tcmay at got.net  Thu Jan  1 11:38:42 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:38:42 +0800
Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



An interesting message (well, interesting to me and perhaps to some others).


At 10:47 AM -0800 1/1/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:


>Thus, in defending against a raid, Soviet-style weapons are probably better.
>7.62x54R Dra----v rifles are probably a good model -- iirc (I've never
>fired one), they're semi auto bullpups.  [eeek, www.guns.ru is selling them
>with bayonets!  tactical close range sniping, aye!].  Or the SEAL sniper

I've read some reviews of the Dragunov which are very unflattering. The
scope on standard USSR-used rifles was terrible. I could doublecheck what
Plaster says about them, but I haven't seen anyone advocating that
Americans use them. Maybe they'll become the wave of the future...

>weapon -- an accurized M14, which is basically an M1A.  With a good scope
>and better trigger, an M14/M1A can be 1 MOA, and it's a real battle rifle,
>with the ability to engage multiple targets quickly due to the semi-auto
>action.

Actually, I figure that if I'm ever in a situation where I have to engage
multiple targets quickly, I'm probably a goner. If nothing else, they'll
roll an armored vehicle in (and more and more SWAT teams have them) and
burn me out, Waco-style.

("We had to burn the children in order to save the children. Save them from
what? Well, we had reports of something....")

>Also, when you're operating without a spotter/security man, it's nice to
>have the ability to quickly kill anyone in close.  With an M1A, you just move
>from your concealment, kill, and return, wasting a minimum of time.  I guess
>in a home you could just keep an AR-15 next to you for such close-in dealings,
>though.

Yeah, I think an AR-15 (or variant, of course) makes more sense for the
average person than anything else (incl. shotgun) for home defense.
Opinions vary on this, but this is my conclusion.


>you are going to have to move around the house, at least.  A PSG-1 ends
>up being cheaper than 10 match-grade Remington 700s -- besides, the scope
>is much more expensive than the gun anyway (perhaps I just like overly
>expensive scopes)

Well, I could justify buying _one_ Remington 700, for $600, plus another
$400 or so for the Leupold scope (not bought yet). But I sure as hell
couldn't justify buying a $10K PSG-1!!!

>*ObCrypto!*:
>The choice of cryptographic tools is somewhat like the choice of sniper
>weaponry.

...

Nice parallels, though I tend to argue for crypto in terms of speech and
First Amendment grounds, and avoid the (obvious, but dangerous) comparisons
of crypto to firearms.

Dangerous because one immediately runs into the "But we regulate machine
guns, so if crypto is like a machine gun, why shouldn't it be regulated?"
And "We don't let citizens have nuclear weapons, so why let them have
military-grade unbreakable ciphers?"

The speech issues and prior restraint issues are much cleaner.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk  Thu Jan  1 11:48:05 1998
From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:48:05 +0800
Subject: HIP97 photos
Message-ID: <199801011921.TAA01743@notatla.demon.co.uk>



Alex de Joode :

> Hmm, I think she only got 3 photos ..

End of one film.  The rest are in the post now.

--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant at notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################






From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Thu Jan  1 12:00:22 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:00:22 +0800
Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801011948.NAA17459@manifold.algebra.com>



Tim May wrote:
> >Thus, in defending against a raid, Soviet-style weapons are probably better.
> >7.62x54R Dra----v rifles are probably a good model -- iirc (I've never
> >fired one), they're semi auto bullpups.  [eeek, www.guns.ru is selling them
> >with bayonets!  tactical close range sniping, aye!].  Or the SEAL sniper
> 
> I've read some reviews of the Dragunov which are very unflattering. The
> scope on standard USSR-used rifles was terrible. I could doublecheck what
> Plaster says about them, but I haven't seen anyone advocating that
> Americans use them. Maybe they'll become the wave of the future...

First of all, the standard Dragunov scopes use weird Russian batteries
that are hard to find here. (the batteries are only used to light the
crosshairs). Also, I have been told that Dragunovs are not as accurate as
M1As (2MOA or so).

What I do like about SVD is their mean looks. Maybe it is my Soviet taste.

	- Igor.






From ravage at ssz.com  Thu Jan  1 12:39:59 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:39:59 +0800
Subject: W.F. Friedman - A reputation revisited?...
Message-ID: <199801012057.OAA12379@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

Thought I would pass an interesting quote along regarding Friedman. I think
it may have some interest considering the holding of Friedman by some
cpunks...

Combined Fleet Decoded: The secret history of American intelligence and the
                        Japanese navy in WWII
John Prados
ISBN 0-679-43701-0


pp. 164

"This is not to say the solution occurred in a vacuum, however. It was
OP-20-G that had solved Red, predecessor to the new diplomatic system,
and Commander Safford recognized that his organization needed outside help
on Purple. He went to his Army counterpart, The Signal Intelligence Service
(SIS), which formed part of the Signal Corps: there, senior cryptanalyst
William F. Friedman, was an expert on machine based encipherment systems.
Under Friedman, chief of the team attacking the B Machine would be Frank B.
Rowlett. Other SIS cryptanalysts, an electronics engineer, accounting
machine experts, and Japanese linguist formed the rest of the group.
Friedman, too often given credit as the man who "broke" Purple, made only
sporadic contributions amid other duties. His main role came in selecting
members of Rowlett's team, with an assist on diagnosis and analysis of the
sytsem. Robert O. Ferner was Rowlett's second, with cryptanalysts Genevieve
Grotjan, Albert W. Small, and Samuel S. Snyder plus crytographic specialists
Glenn S. Landig, Kenneth D. Miller, and Cyrus C. Sturgis Jr. The top
Japanese linguist was John B. Hurt, a Virginian like Rowlett himself."


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From tank at xs4all.nl  Fri Jan  2 04:43:58 1998
From: tank at xs4all.nl (SPG)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:43:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Banned video "Democratic Alternative" now online
Message-ID: 



The "Democratic Alternative for the Basque Country" video (banned in Spain)
is now available in RealVideo format thanks to Contrast.Org.  You can watch or
download the video from the Euskal Herria Journal "mirror" sites:
            
               http://www.osis.ucsd.edu/~ehj
               http://www.contrast.org/mirrors/ehj  


Leaders of Herri Batasuna in Bizkaia and Gipuzkoa were jailed on
Friday to begin serving their seven year prison sentences for having
disseminated ETA's peace proposal, the Democratic Alternative.

On December 1, 1997, Spain's Supreme Court convicted the entire
leadership of Herri Batasuna of "collaborating with an armed group"
and sentenced them to seven years each in prison for attempting to
show a video (The Democratic Alternative), a proposal for cease-fire
and peace from the Basque armed organization ETA during an election
campaign broadcast last year.

The court failed to prove the participation of each of the 23
politicians in the decision to broadcast the video and thus, it
violates the principle of the presumption of innocence.

The judges considered that a crime was committed when in fact the
video had never been broadcasted. Moreover, the judges applied
Franco's Penal Code, which declared the crime of "collaborating with
an armed band" as any type of collaboration with the activities and
goals of an armed group. It thus criminalizes the role of intermediary
in disseminatiing negotiating positions or peace proposals in a bitter
and long standing conflict. 

When Herri Batasuna first showed the video in public meetings in early
1996, Spain's National Court (Franco's Tribunal of Public Order
renamed) banned the video. The then Socialist government--more than 14
of whose police and senior government officials and a Civil Guard
general have been formally charged for their involvement in the
creation, funding, and activities of the death squads that killed at
least 28 suspected Basque activists in the mid 1980s--instructed the
attorney general to investigate whether Herri Batasuna should be
outlawed. Herri Batasuna then attempted to use segments of the ETA
video to disseminate the peace proposal in their election campaign but
its broadcast was banned. In May 1996, the Socialist lost the general
elections to the Partido Popular (Popular Party, founded by Franco's
Minister of Interior). 

In January 1997, Spain's Supreme Court decided to prosecute the 23
leaders of Herri Batasuna. Over 30,000 people rallied in February in
the Basque city of Bilbo to protest the prosecution of the Herri
Batasuna leadership. The demonstration, which was initially peaceful,
turned into a violent confrontation when the police opened fire with
live ammunition, wounding several people. In June, an International
Commission for Freedom of Expression presented the Manifesto to the
Public Opinion and the International Community in support of free
speech and opposition to the trial against Herri Batasuna. The
president of Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, and other distinguished
individuals are among the 700 signatories who endorsed the Manifesto.

International observers from human rights organizations in eleven
countries watching the proceedings issued a joint statement saying
that the accused were given the burden of proof which "violates the
fundamental principle of the presumption of innocence."

Basque political parties have strongly criticized the sentences,
saying that the trial was politically motivated and dashed hopes for a
peace dialogue.

Herri Batasuna attorneys said that nothing had been proven and that
the trial was intended to outlaw a political party which represents
much of the vote of the Basque people. They will appeal the sentence.






From whgiii at invweb.net  Thu Jan  1 12:56:36 1998
From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:56:36 +0800
Subject: Mobile phones used as trackers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 12/31/97 
   at 06:53 PM, Steve Schear  said:

>and keep your cell phone turned off.

It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone
turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell
phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk  Thu Jan  1 13:16:49 1998
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:16:49 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




> It is about basic human decency, and giving a person a fighting chance.

No, acts of law which require employers not to discriminate against 
niggers, wops, kikes or greezers, or any other ratial group infringe 
basic rights of association, I personally have no racist prejudices, but 
recognise the freedom of others to be as bigotted as they care to be.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"








From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk  Thu Jan  1 13:16:58 1998
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:16:58 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




> You are not being coerced into anything.  If you don't want to serve
> food to Blacks, don't open a restaurant.  It's your choice.

I really hate having to go over and over basic points, but will do in the 
hope of bringing even a tiny glimmer of enlightenment to you:

If you don`t want to serve food to blacks, open and restaurant and refuse 
to serve blacks in it, put a sign on the door saying "whites only, 
no niggers please", if blacks try to force you to serve them in your 
restaurant protect your rights by killing them. Simple as that.

> By the way, you are also not allowed to dump toxic waste in your own
> backyard.  Are you being oppressed?

Dumping toxic waste in my back yard will kill my neighbours.
How does refusing to hire blacks or any other group harm anyone but 
myself (in terms of trade levels)? 

> > Colin, do you consider
> > yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you?  What about
> > a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper?
> 
> Nope.  Of course, this has nothing to do with anything.

On the contrary it is an entirely analagous situation, someone is 
choosing not to associate with you, do you go crying to the govt. 
claiming you didn`t get a fair shake because sarah in accounts wouldn`t 
fuck you at the office christmas party?

> With freedom comes responsibility.  Decency is one of them.

With freedom comes responsibility not to infringe someone elses rights, I 
infringe no-one elses rights by refusing to hire them...

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"







From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk  Thu Jan  1 13:18:10 1998
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:18:10 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




> > Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire 
> > someone for being jewish/black/homosexual???
> 
> Welcome to the 20th Century, moron.

You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market 
and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the 
fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. I am no racist, but I defend 
your right to be as racist as you see fit.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"







From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk  Thu Jan  1 13:22:05 1998
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:22:05 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




> > Where do you get the right to tell others how they can make a living?
> 
> I don't have that right.  However, the Supreme Court has said that the
> Congress has that right.

Then that must be right... This is starting to look like a troll.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"






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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:58:03 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <199801024291RAA30040@post.164.160.2>


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We are sorry for any inconvience.
0�29





From mikhaelf at mindspring.com  Thu Jan  1 14:10:42 1998
From: mikhaelf at mindspring.com (Mikhael Frieden)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 06:10:42 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980101165908.0c4f464c@pop.mindspring.com>



At 08:18 PM 1/1/98 +0000, Paul Bradley wrote:

>> It is about basic human decency, and giving a person a fighting chance.

>No, acts of law which require employers not to discriminate against 
>niggers, wops, kikes or greezers, or any other ratial group infringe 
>basic rights of association, I personally have no racist prejudices, but 
>recognise the freedom of others to be as bigotted as they care to be.

        Does that include the krauts, micks, limeys, frogs as well as the
canucks and pea soup eaters? The polacks, chinks and dagos? The Wogs too? 

        Can't we all be ethnic slurs together? 

        Which reminds me. We never did get a good one for the Russians. Any
nominations? 


-=-=-

Censorship is OK if it is of them. 
	-- the F-C motto






From mikhaelf at mindspring.com  Thu Jan  1 14:10:42 1998
From: mikhaelf at mindspring.com (Mikhael Frieden)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 06:10:42 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980101170044.0dff4600@pop.mindspring.com>



At 08:13 PM 1/1/98 +0000, Paul Bradley wrote:
>
>> > Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire 
>> > someone for being jewish/black/homosexual???
>> 
>> Welcome to the 20th Century, moron.
>
>You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market 
>and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the 
>fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. I am no racist, but I defend 
>your right to be as racist as you see fit.

        You are obviously an evil person if you do so against the self
annointed, even though they self identify themselves as 30% racist. 

-=-=-

Censorship is OK if it is of them. 
	-- the F-C motto






From kent at songbird.com  Thu Jan  1 15:21:29 1998
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:21:29 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980101150542.36875@songbird.com>



On Thu, Jan 01, 1998 at 09:52:20PM +1100, Julian Assange wrote:
> 
> Anyone noticed this before?

No.  But there are two obvious differences between this and the Bell 
plan:  1) it's not anon; 2) you are explicitly barred from winning if 
you contribute in any way to the death.
[...]
>     You will not receive credit for a death if you somehow contribute to
>    that person's demise. If there's any dispute over the exact date of a
>     celebrity's demise, information listed on the death certificate will
>                                   prevail.
>                                       
>     Dewey's Death Pool is open to residents of the 50 United States and
>       the District of Columbia who are 18 years or older. For complete
>                        rules, see the Official Rules.

So you have to provide proof of age to claim...
[...]

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html






From shamrock at cypherpunks.to  Thu Jan  1 16:31:10 1998
From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:31:10 +0800
Subject: Need secondary DNS
Message-ID: 



I am looking for somebody outside North America to run a secondary DNS for
cypherpunks.to. Please email me directly, not the list.

Thanks,
-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"






From rights at super.zippo.com  Thu Jan  1 16:47:46 1998
From: rights at super.zippo.com (rights at super.zippo.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:47:46 +0800
Subject: Defamation of the goverment
Message-ID: <199801020044.QAA06595@super.zippo.com>




>
>In the U. S. a public figure must show actual malice and reckless
disregard
>for truth to recover damages for defamation.
>But how does this
apply to the
>goverment itself, the president, and to a foreign
goverment?
>Seditious speech
>against the U. S. goverment is protected under
Brandenburg v. Ohio
>But what if
>for instance a Singaporian or German citizen
uses a remailer in California to
>insult the head of state, the goverment or
the rulingparty at home?
>Would
>willfully promotion of falsehood about a
foreign goverment or a foreign
>goverment institution be protected
speech?
>Could the Singaporian or German
>head of state or any goverment
institution within these countries recover
>damages for defamation committed
in the U.S. through a local SP?
>As far I
>understand it, there is two matters
of relevance.
>1) Sed�tious advocacy under
>the Brandenburg standard.
>2)
Defamation precedence in which the Supreme Court
>ruled that a public figure
has to demonstrate actual malice and reckless
>disregard for truth.
>The
Supreme Court has never ruled that _all_ speech is
>protected unless it is
directed to incite or produce imminent lawless or
>likely to incite or produce
such action.
>Does this mean that defamation
>against the goverment or a
foreign goverment could be subject for civil action
>as long the statute
applied would meet the Sullivan standard?
>






From dm0 at avana.net  Thu Jan  1 17:08:51 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:08:51 +0800
Subject: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980101141316.0362f05c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <34AC4B93.5ECBC8DD@avana.net>



Robert A. Costner wrote:
> 
> To be honest, I'm getting confused on the time zones.  Today I noticed a
> mistake I made earlier when I added when I should have subtracted.  Plus I
> haven't figured out Australia and GMT time yet, to do it without thinking.
> More info about times, and hopefully any corrections can be found at
> 
>         http://www.efga.org/about/meeting.html

There is a Windows 3.1/95 program called "WorldClock" you might want to
see at:

http://www.mindspring.com/~otterson/worldclock/index.html

I haven't tried it myself, so don't consider this an endorsement.

--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad

Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system.






From abc.88060 at major.com  Fri Jan  2 09:53:45 1998
From: abc.88060 at major.com (abc.88060 at major.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:53:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Internet Admin
Message-ID: <199801021753.JAA04369@blackie.cruzers.com>


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From remailer at geocities.com  Thu Jan  1 18:00:37 1998
From: remailer at geocities.com (remailer at geocities.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:00:37 +0800
Subject: Remailer
Message-ID: <199801020146.RAA10880@geocities.com>



Check out , for a remailer that will
run on any winsock compatible connection.  I think there is a ftp site in
europe.  I can't remember if it runs on NT, so check out the site.

At 10:58 AM 1/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Okay, I'd like to set up a remailer - but I don't know where to start!
Unfortunatly it's going to have to run on an NT 4.0 box, so the winsock
remailer is out of the question, right? And I'm not in the US, so I can't
use the juno stuff -- so what (if anything) *can* I use?
>
>Thanks for any help...
>
>
>
>
>
>






From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au  Thu Jan  1 19:59:44 1998
From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:59:44 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
Message-ID: 



Hello all,

>> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile
>> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile subscribers down
>> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper
>> reported.
>
>They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel
>their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow.
>
>If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint
>your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters
>due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread
>spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2.
>
>I have heard of digital mobile phones that have a feature in their test/diag
>mode that displays the distance to the current base station in meters,
>and also displays info of a second base station that it would most likely
>switch to when moving out of the current cell.
>Even if the telco only had the distance info to your phone within a meter
>from 2 of their base stations, they could calculate where you are if need
>be to 2 possible locations within meters.
>Surely though they would have the capability of recording distance info
>from 3 base stations, pin pointing you exactly during a call or the exact
>spot your phone requested a cell change.
>
>And during a call, if need be, they could probably plot your position at
>around 10,000 samples per second.	:) Though for them to be keeping
>this much info on you, you are obviously being investigated.
>
>Isn't it ironic that people who use GSM for it's "security" can have this
>much info of their whereabouts known to big brother/whoever?
>Not to mention their actual conversation.
>
>Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is
>presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his
>phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync?
>
>The world just about, has no idea!
>To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement.	:)
>
>He's gunna find out who's naughty and nice.
>
>Bye for now.






From brianbr at together.net  Thu Jan  1 21:36:30 1998
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:36:30 +0800
Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801020526.AAA02793@mx01.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 1/1/98 2:19 PM, Jim Choate (ravage at ssz.com)  passed this wisdom:

>> Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns]
>> From: Ryan Lackey 
>> Date: 01 Jan 1998 13:47:02 -0500
>
>> 2) In my (somewhat limited) experience, many field-improvised 
>> concealment locations are great during firing, but when you move
>> to cycle the action on a bolt action rifle, you make the
concealment
>> shake or otherwise reveal yourself.  Against a force with
>> sniper/antisniper weaponry, that will likely
>
>> All that being said, for field use and home defense, if I'm alone,
>> I'd take a barrett .50 browning for long-range USMC-style
>> scout-sniping, or
>
>You obviously haven't seen the flash or the dust cloud from one of 
>these beasties fired from ground level. Hiding at anything less 
>than a mile is notsomething you're going to do very well.  

 IIRC, the Barret gun with all its gear is also a multiperson load as
well, so the 'alone' part isn't very valid either.

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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
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Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

 "Saying windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato
  that looks like Jesus and believing you've seen the Second Coming."
  -- Guy Kawasaki (MacWorld, Nov '95)








From attila at hun.org  Fri Jan  2 00:51:33 1998
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:51:33 +0800
Subject: Time to Pay the Piper
Message-ID: <19980102.081442.attila@hun.org>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>From: Bill Stewart 
>To: "Attila T. Hun" , 
>    cypherpunks 
>Subject: Re: Making them eat their words... (while they watch!)
>Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:56:54 -0800
>
> At 05:15 PM 12/21/1997 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
>>    there is only one solution to organizations like M$ 
>>    which are operated without ethics: treat them to the
>>    pleasures of not only the antitrust laws but the 
>>    exquisite delights of RICO.

> Nonsense, and I'm surprised to hear this from you.

    No, Bill. it's not nonsense... 

    1)  when a true market monopoly exists, society _is_
        entitled to intervene. I wrote my Harvard thesis on
        antitrust and the effect on society of a monopoly,
        regulated in the public interest as in AT&T v. the
        industrial monopolies. this may have been 35 years
        ago, but the principles are even more imperative
        now with the increasing concentration of real wealth
        both individually and corporately in the hands of a 
        few.
    
    2)  why should you be surprised to hear this from me? 
        sure, I would prefer anarchy per se, but have
        absolutely no faith that the vast majority would do
        anything except rape, pillage, and plunder. and, I
        think I have made my beliefs more than plain over 
        the history trail of cypherpunks.
   
    anarchy is nothing more than an isolationist theory; as 
    a political system it does not work --never has, never 
    will. ergo, there is a need for some government in the
    interest of the people (sheeple, if you prefer).  man 
    has not proved his worth on this planet, and whether or
    not you believe in God is irrelevant.  the last several
    generations have bequeathed a wilting, dying polluted
    earth to their children and grandchildren.

    therefore, I am neither your revolutionary anarchist
    nor your "lost in the clouds" libertarian idealist; I am
    just a pragmatist who wishes we could govern with an
    enlightened electorate in the manner of a New Hampshire 
    town meeting; a pragmatist that I believe limited
    regulation is essential, but a foolish dreamer to hope
    for an enlightened electorate.

> Treat them to the pleasures of the free market -
> if you don't like them, start a Boycott M$ campaign,
> and see if people stop buying their lousy software.

    no, Bill, there is no alternative in the mass market. A
    perfect example is Gate$ buying _both_ WebTV and their
    competitor to make sure he has _all_ the action.

    another is EnCarta. Gate$ gave it away until the other
    vendors dropped out of the market; now M$ charges for
    the encyclopedia.

    Gate$ is the perfect example of not only a pure monopoly
    with 90% of the OS market, but also a constructive
    monopoly who has leveraged the first position to force
    monopolies in other areas: 95% of word processing, 95%
    of spreadsheets, and approaching the total domination of
    the browser market.

    Secondly, Gate$ is spreading into the control of the
    means of distribution in cable, networks, etc. and
    likewise into media content. Gate$ current actions are
    those of a spoiled four year old child who sees nothing
    wrong with demanding it all.

> The direct democracy of the free market is far more 
> appropriate than government here - it's $1/vote, 
> and if enough people vote against M$ they'll get the hint, 
> and it enough people vote _for_ M$, it's none of your 
> business.

    WRONG! when 90% of the voters are dependent on M$, M$ has
    bought the vote. to the average user, to vote against M$ is
    to vote against a free v. a not-free browser, etc.

    WRONG AGAIN: the OEM computer group has no choice either;
    software is available from virtually every software house
    for M$ --and only M$.  therefore the OEM has no choice of
    operating system. without the software, any competing OS
    is useless. M$ has also intimidated and constrained the 
    software houses. Corel is a good case in point with M$
    threatening to withhold critical information on Windows 
    95 if Corel delivered their 32 bit product to OS/2 
    first.

    WRONG AGAIN: M$ has required OEMs to load Explorer as part
    of the "privilege" to be able to load the OS. That is
    restraint of trade. when they try to exercise total
    market control through their customers with their own
    marketing policies.

    WRONG AGAIN: M$ is forcing Explorer on totally 
    non-related software vendors. Why should the 
    accounting software vendor in MN be required to load
    Explorer to be able to distribute the OS --and, most
    additional M$ packages in networking, etc required
    Explorer for essential DLLs.  this is "binding" in
    FTC unfair practices regulations.

> It _is_ funny to see the Feds hiring a big corporate lawyer
> to run their case; I guess they don't think Federal Prosecutors
> are good enough.  Surely if a low-level prosecutor can't hack it,
> they should use their boss, and on up the hierarchical chain.
> If Janet Reno can't do it either, they should replace her with
> someone who can :-) 

    GRIN?  Bill, I'm surprised you would say this.  Reno is
    not an anti-trust specialist.  just how many of them are
    there in the country as a whole?  not many?  why?  --not
    much anti-trust action; usually the FTC has been able to
    block mergers, etc.  before they become a menace to
    society such as M$ has become.

    this is where the failure of the free market comes in:
    few companies manage to attain the total monopoly
    position; _none_ to date have done so with clean hands. 

    frankly, Gate$' hands are dirtier than Cornelius
    Vanderbilt's hands were in his heyday; and Cornelius
    Vanderbilt made John D. Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan look
    like angels.

    Gate$' literally has not only violated the anti-trust
    laws and the FTC rules on fair competition, but he has
    done so deliberately in what can easily be defined as a
    conspiracy to limit or prevent access to the market
    --and that can be construed as a RICO offense --and
    should be. Neither Gate$ nor Ballmer show the slightest
    interest in backing off what they consider their God
    given rights in a free market to rape, pillage, and
    burn; they feel that M$ is entitled to tell the American
    (or world) buyer what he wants to buy. monopoly 
    eliminates freedom of choice.

    I do not usually have much use for Jesse Berst, whom I 
    generally consider a senseless and shameless M$ schill,
    like the rest of Ziff-Davis; however, this is what Jesse
    had to say Monday:

        Jesse Berst, 22 Dec.

        "I'm a fan of its [Microsoft's] accomplishments 
        and its great products.  More than that, I'm
        a fan of personal computing.  That's why I can say 
        that it's better for us -- and better for Microsoft
        -- if the DOJ forces the company to play fair.  Only
        intense competition can keep a company from the
        hardening of the attitudes that eventually damaged
        companies such as IBM, Digital, Wang and Data
        General."

    to engender that competition, M$ needs to be forced to
    divest either operating systems or products.  despite 
    any imagined gains of their increasing integration, the
    market can not fall to a monolithic line and then expect
    further advances with no-one nipping at M$' heels

    unfortunately, M$ idea of competition has not been to be
    just the market leader --it has fostered an attitude 
    that it can be the only player.

    and like all monopolies, M$ has fallen into the Al
    Sloan mode ("What's good for General Motors is good for 
    the country").

        more Jesse Berst, 22 Dec.

        "That's why I can say with all sincerity, the more 
        you like Microsoft, the more you admire its
        accomplishments, the more you appreciate its
        products, the more you should root for the DOJ to
        win its latest case.  Anybody who thinks otherwise
        should be forced to attend every single match of
        the World Wide Wrestling Federation next year.  That 
        will give them an up-close-and-painful taste of what
        happens when you do away with competition.

    Jesse, the Microsoft schill, is now at least as strident
    as I have been since the late 80s when the uncontrolled
    direction of Gate$' marketing and operating system
    leverage over office products became more than evident.
    the DOJ should have broken M$ into separate companies in
    1994.

    instead, the DOJ made a deal with a "Joe Stalin", who,
    true to Lenin's manifestos, would sign any treaty which
    bought him time to develop the prohibited weapons --then
    he broke it. M$ violated the consent decree before it
    was certified in court and.  in reality, applied even
    more onerous terms to the hardware OEM vendors; we are
    reaping the results of Gate$ incredible arrogance today.

    Gate$ also broke the public trust by arrogantly usurping
    by whatever means more of the market --his actions 
    today are untenable in a civilized market. any 
    suggestions that if you do not like M$, you should not
    buy M$ products are hollow inanities --to the public, 
    there is no alternative --economies of scale and market
    dominance have wiped out all but a few niche market 
    vendors. 

    the sheeple never revolt; they just follow the Judas
    goat to the abattoir happily enjoying the free software
    while Gate$ builds his tollGate$ (nice pun --guess I 
    will add that to my lexicon). the sheeple will not be
    happy when they find themselves being nicked for every
    transaction, on or off Gate$' networks.

    --and if Gate$ actions over the past 3 years were not
    enough, his ridiculous, affrontive, and offensive
    response to the Judge's order is prima facie evidence of
    not only a monopoly, not only a constructive monopoly,
    but a tyrannical, maniacal monster who is still a
    spoiled four year old brat with absolutely no conscience
    or sense of social responsibility.

    the fact Steve Ballmer, et al, echo this dictatorial 
    policy in violation of US law is prima facia evidence of 
    an ongoing criminal enterprise which employs extortion
    --yes, literally extortion-- in the furtherance of its
    business plan --and this is a RICO offense for which
    Gate$ and his henchman certainly appear to have
    deservedly earned the right to 3 hots and a cot for the
    20 years minimum on the lesser RICO charge, or mandatory
    life imprisonment on a conspiracy of greater than 6.  

    Secondly, none of Gate$ lieutenants and captains can
    claim they acted under orders; it wont fly any more than
    it flew at Nuremberg.

    Esther Dyson (with Margie Wylie of CNET)

        But it is big government that's watching them, not
        ...

        Yes--and that's why we need to keep...I mean, God
        bless the Justice Department for fighting Microsoft;
        God bless Microsoft for creating good products, and
        the customers for keeping everybody in line.  This
        is what I want:  I don't want anybody to win.  I
        want the game to keep going.  I want little guys to
        keep on coming up and tweaking the noses of the big
        guys.

        I've always been a believer in antitrust.  It's the
        concentration of power that bothers me, not whether
        it's "for profit" or "for government."  And I've
        never claimed to be or not to be a Libertarian.
        People put labels on things and stop thinking.

    a good clear statement from Dyson on the public 
    interest.

    do you think M$ should be permitted to behave in
    their autocratic and callous manner towards software
    developers who have no need for Explorer?

        Brian Glaeske, a programmer/analyst with Fargo,
        North Dakota-based Great Plains Software, complained
        to the US Justice Department last month that
        Microsoft effectively requires him and others to
        provide its browser in his accounting software,
        which has nothing to do with the World Wide Web or
        the Internet.

        "Microsoft should not be permitted to force
        third-party developers to redistribute Microsoft
        Internet Explorer in order to use [new] features,"
        Glaeske wrote to Joel Klein, the Justice
        Department's top pursuer of antitrust allegations.

    is not Glaeske's position reasonable? the real point
    however, does not relate to the browser; the bottom line
    is that Glaeske, and most of the software developers, do
    not have an alternative to Microsoft as an operating 
    system.  

    Oh, sure, some clients will run Unix flavours and there
    are vendors for most high profile applications on unix
    and OS/2, but the vast majority (90%) of the clients
    take the easy way out and go Microsoft --M$ is what the
    employees have at home; M$ is what the "trained"
    employees have used before.... there are millions of
    arguments, after WinTel being cheaper, why they should
    not change --starting with "why should we be different?"

    a pure free market is anarchy; anarchy may be a 
    wonderful idea for utopian people; the human race is far
    from being anything except a selfish, greedy collection
    of individuals who are constrained either by the threats
    of fire and brimstone from the church, or the laws of 
    the land which punish transgressions of socially 
    acceptable behaviour --fair or not.

    even Teddy Roosevelt wrote that anarchists should be 
    hunted down and exterminated like vermin.

    William H. Gates III is just another robber baron who 
    really believes the statement: "What's good for 
    Microsoft is good for the country."  Al Sloan never 
    realized his monopoly with General Motors, although 
    there have been periods where GM was over 50% of the 
    market (when Chrysler was close to failing). 

    Bill Gates has created an effective monopoly _world_
    _wide_ which far surpasses any monopoly ever created
    by one individual or company; even John D. Rockefeller 
    did not come close to Gate$' power.  John D. was also
    rather benevolent.  IBM never approached Gate$' level
    of monopoly.

    Gate$ has proven, and is proving while the very 
    litigation is going on, that he is not a benevolent 
    monopolist; there is only one way: Bill's way, and
    everyone will think like Bill, or they will be the
    vermin to be exterminated.

    and, that, my friends, is why there is such a thing
    as the public interest; and it should have been 
    exercised on BadBillyG in 1994.

    my vote goes to prosecute Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer,
    at the very least, for violations of the Sherman Act,
    the Clayton Antitrust Act, and the Robinson-Patman 
    amendments (FTC, etc.) to the full extent of the law,
    including criminal violations as warranted under those
    titles; and prosecute under the RICO statutes for an
    ongoing racketeering (extortion is racketeering) and
    criminal enterprise.

    frankly, I am disappointed that it has come to this, but
    Gate$ greed and lust for power has not only exceeded 
    his common sense, it has transgressed the boundary of
    baseline social responsibility.

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From kping at nym.alias.net  Fri Jan  2 02:28:20 1998
From: kping at nym.alias.net (Kay Ping)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:28:20 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
Message-ID: <19980102101945.10999.qmail@nym.alias.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss
>>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a
>>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back
>>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported.
>
>Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here in
>Amerika right now.

The FCC has issued a ruling that will require all cellular telephone
carriers to provide location information on all 911 calls. By the year
2001, this location information is to provide 125 metres of accuracy 67%
of the time.

Helping emergency services locate 911 callers is a great excuse for 
installing  a cellular location system. Even better than the excuses they 
gave for eavesdropping-ready digital switches and limits on encryption.

- --------------
Kay Ping
nop 'til you drop

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2pCi2q9dk1jFtgIXfrBusSkKS9wP0yYmtLG6lc52YtC6MNE=
=+pHY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----







From anon at anon.efga.org  Fri Jan  2 03:00:33 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:00:33 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
Message-ID: 



>        Which reminds me. We never did get a good one for the Russians. Any
>nominations?

Klintonkov? As in Comrade Klintonkov?






From mibe at prodigy.com  Fri Jan  2 19:10:25 1998
From: mibe at prodigy.com (mibe at prodigy.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Sneak Preview
Message-ID: <199801033634DAA21776@post.net>


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From 1wmsi043o at worktow1est.com  Fri Jan  2 20:56:51 1998
From: 1wmsi043o at worktow1est.com (1wmsi043o at worktow1est.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:56:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Give Your Child "One of the Best Children's Videos""
Message-ID: 


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From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Fri Jan  2 06:40:03 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:40:03 +0800
Subject: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security...
Message-ID: <199801021435.IAA27120@manifold.algebra.com>



CNN Custom News:



          Repeat/Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes
          the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security...

          LA Times 02-JAN-98 LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 31,
          1997--Finally Meganet's highly acclaimed unbreakable encryption,
          Virtual Matrix Encryption (VME) is for sale. Meganet, a San
          Fernando Valley software development company, is proud to
          announce the release of a full line of encryption products.

          VME 98 is available in six (6) levels of front-end applications
          in three (3) flavors: DOS, Win 16 (Windows 3.x), and Win
          32 (Windows 95 & NT). The VME 98 Standard Edition, VME
          98 Professional Edition, VME 98 Enterprise Edition, VME 98
          Custom Client Edition, VME 98 Custom Server Edition, & VME 98
          Batch Server Edition provide unprecedented security, options,
          and flexibility. The pricing ranges from $100.00 for a single
          retail license to over $1,000,000.00 for the most sophisticated
          VME 98 Batch Server Edition.

          In addition, three (3) SDK's (Software Developer Kits) are
          ready to assist software developers in easily integrating
          VME 98 into their existing and future products. The three (3)
          SDK's include an 8bit DOS Engine, 16bit Windows DLL (Win 3.x)
          and 32bit Windows DLL (Win 95 & NT).

          The possibilities are endless with the array of VME 98
          products. Now any application including but not limited
          to Internet commerce, Government communications, banking
          transactions, corporate secrets and personal computer data
          can be guaranteed complete impenetrability.

          Yes, the VME 98 is the same product that was posted on the
          Internet with a $1 million reward for anyone that could break
          a VME encrypted file. Over fifty five thousand (55,000) tried
          with zero (0) success.

          Yes, the VME 98 is the same product that challenged Microsoft,
          IBM, AT&T, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, America Online,
          Netscape, etc. to break a VME encrypted file. All the great
          computer minds in this country have had an opportunity to
          dispel the bold claims of unbreakable encryption, yet none have.

          Meganet is pleased to offer the same standard of excellence
          with all of the VME 98 packages.

          Additional information about this exciting new technology can
          be found at www.meganet.com






From bairuana8 at juno.com  Sat Jan  3 00:41:24 1998
From: bairuana8 at juno.com (bairuana8 at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:41:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: rush rush
Message-ID: <19980103916SAA8876@post.penzberg.de>


     
      It seems both you and I have an interest in making money.  Our research indicates the following material is of interest to you.  Sorry for the intrusion, you will only receive this message once.  Thank you.

     Do you have any product, recipe, idea, service, website, MLM, or business that you would like to expose to thousands of people for pennies on the dollar?  Well, advertising on the internet is the only way to go.

     There are thirty million people currently on the internet with that number increasing by fifty thousand per month.  Imagine the ability to reach these people overnight for a fraction of the cost of direct mailing.  This is what we have to offer.

     If you would like more info, please respond to FUTURE849 at earthlink.net and type info in the subject box.  Please include any questions you have.  I hope you are having a great holiday season.
 





From ericm at lne.com  Fri Jan  2 09:53:04 1998
From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:53:04 +0800
Subject: Mobile phones used as trackers
In-Reply-To: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <199801021756.JAA13004@slack.lne.com>



William H. Geiger III writes:
> In , on 12/31/97
>    at 06:53 PM, Steve Schear  said:
> 
> >and keep your cell phone turned off.
> 
> It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone
> turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell
> phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system).

How?


The little I know about cellular is that the handset only broadcasts
to the cells when its on.  Of course, 'on' and 'off' might mean
different things on a hand-held with limited battery life, and a
mobile that's connected to a large battery with a generator (car).
But it doesn't make sense to have the even the mobile system constantly
communicating with cells and getting hand-offs when the operator
has switched it 'off' and isn't using it-  it'd be taking up bandwidth
for no reason at all.  And we all know that cellular bandwidth is
in short supply.

-- 
Eric Murray  Chief Security Scientist  N*Able Technologies  www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at  lne.com   or   nabletech.com)          PGP keyid:E03F65E5






From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Sat Jan  3 01:59:28 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:59:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 3 '98
Message-ID: <19980103082548.18031.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com  Fri Jan  2 10:53:58 1998
From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:53:58 +0800
Subject: remailer
Message-ID: <199801021822.KAA05621@sirius.infonex.com>



In a message dated 20:44 01/01/98 EST, you wrote:
 
> Check out , for a remailer that will
> run on any winsock compatible connection.  I think there is a ftp site in
> europe.  I can't remember if it runs on NT, so check out the site.

Thanks for the help - I've tried the latest version with no luck. The docs state that it works under win95 now but there are still some issues with NT 4.0   Has anyone got this to work under NT?  I really want to give something back to the remailer/cypherpunk community and this is the only way I can think of.

If anyone has experience of the Winsock remailer and can help...








From tcmay at got.net  Fri Jan  2 11:39:14 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 03:39:14 +0800
Subject: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes theMarket by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security...
In-Reply-To: <199801021435.IAA27120@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 



At 6:35 AM -0800 1/2/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>CNN Custom News:

>          Repeat/Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes
>          the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security...
>
>          LA Times 02-JAN-98 LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 31,
>          1997--Finally Meganet's highly acclaimed unbreakable encryption,

>          All the great
>          computer minds in this country have had an opportunity to
>          dispel the bold claims of unbreakable encryption, yet none have.

All the great computer minds....

They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Darwin, they laughed at Bozo the
Clown.

Jeesh.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From jim at mentat.com  Fri Jan  2 12:13:57 1998
From: jim at mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:13:57 +0800
Subject: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security...
Message-ID: <9801022007.AA03484@mentat.com>



IChudov relays from CNN Custom  News:
>           Repeat/Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes
>           the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security...

That reminds me... in PR Newswire on 16 Dec 1997 it was reported that
IBM had endorsed Meganet's VME, and recommended that NIST replace the
DES standard with it (presumably in the AES bake-off).  This was
humorous enough that I thought it worth sharing with IBM -- I
ingenously asked them whether it was true, and, if so, how they came to
the conclusion that it was a useful product.  They responded:

       I would like to apologize for the length of time it took
       to reply to your message. I had to make a few phonecalls
       and had to wait for someone to get back to me. I spoke with
       a Cryptography Specialist and she informed me that IBM
       has, in fact, not tested their product and therefore has not
       endorsed it. IBM has no further comment regarding the report.

       I hope this helps.

       Thank you for using askIBM.

    George Lavasidis (ASKIBM at vnet.ibm.com)
    IBM Internet Support Group
    1-800-IBM-4YOU

I, too, have no further comment.

	Jim Gillogly
	Hevensday, 11 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 20:11
	12.19.4.14.11, 8 Chuen 9 Kankin, Third Lord of Night






From amaret at infomaniak.ch  Fri Jan  2 13:35:59 1998
From: amaret at infomaniak.ch (Alexandre Maret)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:35:59 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34AD5B24.520C3851@infomaniak.ch>



Pearson Shane wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> >> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile
> >> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile subscribers down
> >> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper
> >> reported.
> >
> >They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel
> >their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow.
> >
> >If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint
> >your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters
> >due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread
> >spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2.

it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than
just the cell you're in... but you never know

[snip]
> >Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is
> >presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his
> >phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync?

yes... except that everybody but Mr.Drug Dealer use these mobile
phones (marketed under the name "Natel-D"). In switzerland, you can
buy GSM phones that works with prepaid cards. No trace, no name. The
location can still be pinpointed, but nobody know who's owning the
phone. This is called "Natel Easy" (what a name). It cost much more,
but depending on the business you're conducting, it's not a problem...

To conclude: everybody is watched, except Mr.DD...

> >The world just about, has no idea!
> >To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement.      :)

this is the problem in switzerland. When I first heard about this
story (and believe me, it's not the only one of that kind... it's
not even the worse), I tried to ask people around me to see what
they think about this, and I was amazed by their reaction. "There
is no problem, I'm not doing anything wrong." The media are
beginning to relate this kind of facts, but the people are still
incredibly naive.

One more thing we can say about this story: Switzerland's telecom
market is now free (since 1.1.98), and this story may give some
people (altough I'm not sure...) a reason to change their telco
(when possible).

Another fact of the 1997 year in switerland:

the largest retailer in switzerland (Migros http://www.migros.ch)
launched the M-Cumulus card. Each time you buy something by Migros,
you can present this card and get a 1% rebate (wow...) and you may
also get special rebate "tailored to your needs". But, to get this
card, you have to sign an agreement that allows Migros to record
what you buys. On the 20th november 1997, 1.6mio of citizen were
in the database (about 1/4th of the swiss population). When requesting
this card, you also provide the name and date of birth of each
in the household (you're not forced to do so, but 97% of the
M-Cumulus owners filled this information).
	(source: partially "Le Nouveau Quotidien", 20th nov 1997)

The federal government was supposed to issue a warning. If a warning
was issued, I may have been sleeping at that time...

Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/
mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the
swiss people are informed...

  alex






From rp at rpini.com  Fri Jan  2 14:56:30 1998
From: rp at rpini.com (Remo Pini)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 06:56:30 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980102234524.00977740@linux>



At 22:24 02.01.98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Pearson Shane wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> >> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile
>> >> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile
subscribers down
>> >> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper
>> >> reported.
>> >
>> >They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel
>> >their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow.
>> >
>> >If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint
>> >your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters
>> >due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread
>> >spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2.
>
>it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than
>just the cell you're in... but you never know

They can't really (the cell relay equipment is not up to the task).

>> >Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is
>> >presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his
>> >phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync?
>
>yes... except that everybody but Mr.Drug Dealer use these mobile
>phones (marketed under the name "Natel-D"). In switzerland, you can
>buy GSM phones that works with prepaid cards. No trace, no name. The
>location can still be pinpointed, but nobody know who's owning the
>phone. This is called "Natel Easy" (what a name). It cost much more,
>but depending on the business you're conducting, it's not a problem...
>
>To conclude: everybody is watched, except Mr.DD...
>
>> >The world just about, has no idea!
>> >To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement.      :)
>
>this is the problem in switzerland. When I first heard about this
>story (and believe me, it's not the only one of that kind... it's
>not even the worse), I tried to ask people around me to see what
>they think about this, and I was amazed by their reaction. "There
>is no problem, I'm not doing anything wrong." The media are
>beginning to relate this kind of facts, but the people are still
>incredibly naive.

You should have asked me instead :), I'm a bit more paranoid than most.
(Yes, I most certainly don't have a Cumulus card and I have a Natel D-Easy
for 
fun.)

>One more thing we can say about this story: Switzerland's telecom
>market is now free (since 1.1.98), and this story may give some
>people (altough I'm not sure...) a reason to change their telco
>(when possible).

Until somewhen in 1999 you can only do international calls through alternate
carriers (only Swisscom has access to the home so far, unless these cable
operators
really get serious, which they won't, because Swisscom owns more then 30%
of their
stock) and you have to prepend a 5 digit number to do a call until autumn
(I don't think
people without a pbx that can be programmed to automatically do that will
switch carriers).

>Another fact of the 1997 year in switerland:
>
>the largest retailer in switzerland (Migros http://www.migros.ch)
>launched the M-Cumulus card. Each time you buy something by Migros,
>you can present this card and get a 1% rebate (wow...) and you may
>also get special rebate "tailored to your needs". But, to get this
>card, you have to sign an agreement that allows Migros to record
>what you buys. On the 20th november 1997, 1.6mio of citizen were
>in the database (about 1/4th of the swiss population). When requesting
>this card, you also provide the name and date of birth of each
>in the household (you're not forced to do so, but 97% of the
>M-Cumulus owners filled this information).
>	(source: partially "Le Nouveau Quotidien", 20th nov 1997)

It is a bit worrying, but on the other hand, I don't consider my shopping
list a
very personal thing, after all, hardly anyone (except Monty Python) gets
killed by
a banana.

>The federal government was supposed to issue a warning. If a warning
>was issued, I may have been sleeping at that time...

Well, I guess everybody was...

>Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/
>mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the
>swiss people are informed...

Now this guy (Odilo Guntern) seems to have no clue about anything...

Wanna get more paranoid? Some companies log all Internet traffic of their
employees
that passes through their proxy (which you have to use for anything to
work) for
some weeks (Weren't you the one chatting on #really-naughty-bits for more
than 1 
hour on Monday??).
And of course, phonenumbers you call in your company are logged, too.

See you,
Remo
-----------------------------------------------------
Fate favors the prepared mind. (from "Under Siege 3")
-----------------------------------------------------
Remo Pini                         T: +41  1 350 28 88
Pini Computer Trading             N: +41 79 216 15 51
http://www.rpini.com/                 E: rp at rpini.com
key: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/remopini.asc        
-----------------------------------------------------






From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Jan  3 07:40:23 1998
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 07:40:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: E-Cash cost advantage acknowledged
Message-ID: 


Remember all the stuff I say about the markedly reduced costs of digital
bearer transactions?

Wanna bet that if a bunch of big bankers say the cost reduction one order
of magnitude, given Moore's Law and a little programming elbow grease, we
can bring it down to three?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: schear at mail.lvdi.net (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:01:06 -0800
To: rah at shipwright.com
From: Steve Schear 
Subject: E-Cash cost advantage acknowledged

The vast cost advantages of e-cash transactions was acknowledged in a
Banking Industry Technology Secretariat (BITS) paper presented at last
year's Electronic Payment Forum meeting in Hilton Head, SC on July 17-18,
1997.
http://www.epf.net/PrevMtngs/July97Mtng/Presentations/Schutzer/index.htm
BITS, a Division of The Bankers Roundtable, members are the 125 largest
U.S. holding companies represent 70% of financial assets and deposits in
the United States and employ over 1 million people.

Projections provided by Salomon Brothers, Nilson Report, Financial
Institutions and Markets, and Boston Consulting Group, show e-cash
transaction costs easily outdistance ACH/EFT by a factor of 10.  Credit
cards will be about 40 times as costly.  Even the highly touted ECP
(Electronic Check Payment) approaches are likely to be 20 times as
expensive.

What is most interesting is that despite this acknowledgement almost all
the BITS member institutions are pursuing a path away from e-cash and
second place EFT embracing higher margin (and higher merchant/consumer
cost) alternatives, for example VISACash (cash in name only).  In fact,
many major banks see EFT/POS (and e-cash) is a threat to their franchises
and have moved to keep them from expansion through non-competitive
practices and regulatory pressure.

--Steve


PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear              | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO                       | fax: (702) 658-2673
First ECache Corporation  |
7075 West Gowan Road      |
Suite 2148                |
Las Vegas, NV 89129       | Internet: schear at lvdi.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------

	I know not what course others may take; but as for me,
	give me ECache or give me debt!

	"It's your Cache�"



--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 







From emc at wire.insync.net  Fri Jan  2 16:51:47 1998
From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:51:47 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
Message-ID: <199801030048.SAA02365@wire.insync.net>



Something amusing from alt.true-crime with definite crypto parallels
to certain Swinestein and Freeh initiatives.  It is rare to find
material that rises to the Toto level of comedy on Usenet.
 
-----
 
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
Subject: Kennedy Death Spurs Legislative Initiative
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:44:03 GMT
Message-ID: <68jrg6$eil at dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
 
BOSTON, Mass. (AP) - Sen. Ted Kennedy announced here today that he
will introduce a bill limiting access to skis and ski poles. The
"Winter Sports Safety Bill" is believed to be a reaction to the recent
death of the Senator's nephew Michael Kennedy in a skiing accident.
 
"When skis were invented, they were made out of wood," Kennedy said.
"Today's skis are simply to powerful and dangerous to be in the hands
of people. There is no constitutional right to skiing. We feel that
people will have to sacrifice some of their freedoms for the
protection of society as a whole."
 
One provision will license all dealers in skis. These licenses will
involve fingerprinting, background checks, body cavity searches, and
photographs of anybody wishing to be in the business of selling skis
and ski poles.
 
Another section of the bill bans any ski pole under 36" in length and
any ski which is not at least 48" in length.
 
The bill also addresses ski wax. Studies have shown that some waxes
actually make the skis go faster, creating a greater danger of death
to the skier. Skiers also use the faster skis to outrun the ski
patrol, which is not an acceptable practice.
 
A five day waiting period will be required for all ski and ski pole
sales.  People will be required to provide their social security
number and floor plan of their homes before being permitted to
purchase skis.
 
"There are simply too many people getting excited about skiing. Easy
access to skis is the major reason people get killed on those things.
They should have to wait before they can pick up their skis. I am sure
that this 'cooling off period' will save lives," Kennedy said.
 
Another bill has been introduced that will ban 'ski carrying devices'
on tops of cars that have a capacity of greater than ten skis.
 
"There is simply no reason why anybody needs more than ten skis. You
can't ski on more than two at the same time. People with more than ten
skis are simply up to no good," said Kennedy.
 
Statistics quoted by the Center for Disease Control show that skiing
was second only to drowning as the leading cause of death for people
close to the Kennedy family.
 
OTHER RELATED STORIES:
 
  - Ted Kennedy Denies Driving Michael to Aspen.
  - Study Links Skiing to Suicides.
  - Clinton Calls for Restrictions on "Cop Killer" Ski Poles.
  - Washington DC to Buy Back Skis for $2 Each.
  - Dianne Feinstein Vows Defeat for the National Skiing Association.

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 






From loki at infonex.com  Fri Jan  2 17:19:12 1998
From: loki at infonex.com (Lance Cottrell)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:19:12 +0800
Subject: FCPUNX:Anonymous IRC (was 'Cypherpunks IRC Christmas EveParty')
In-Reply-To: <199712312112.QAA07345@beast.brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 



At 1:32 AM +0000 12/31/97, wayne clerke wrote:
>On Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:56 AM, Mark Hedges
>[SMTP:hedges at rigel.cyberpass.net] wrote:
>>
>>
>> We found IRC users to be so involved in petty information wars --
>> ping floods, malicious prank hacking, and the like -- that we directed
>> policy against use of IRC from the anonymous shell accounts at CyberPass.
>>
>> If IRC users weren't so easily lulled by the tempation to crash a server
>> or run malicious bots or just plain irritate other people for fun, and
>> if they would gang up and kick out people who did that, then perhaps we'd
>> switch that back on.
>>
>> They were just too much overhead. Everyone else seems pretty nice, really,
>> as far as the system goes. They're all self-interested in keeping the
>> anonymous publishing and so on going, so the peace keeps itself.
>
>
>What's the reason behind the policy direction against the use of personal web
>proxies running in a (paid for) shell account?
>Seems like less risk than you already accept anyway. Something I've missed?
>

System load is the issue in this case. If a proxy becomes publicly known
the load it imposes on the system could quickly become gigantic. In
addition we found that people were setting up proxies on any old port,
sometimes causing all kinds of conflicts.

Our accounts are priced assuming light personal usage. Running servers on
our systems is negotiable.

	-Lance

----------------------------------------------------------
Lance Cottrell   loki at infonex.com
PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server.
http://www.infonex.com/~loki/

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra.  Suddenly
it flips over, pinning you underneath.  At night the ice
weasels come."
                        --Nietzsche
----------------------------------------------------------







From tcmay at got.net  Fri Jan  2 17:21:05 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:21:05 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: <199801030048.SAA02365@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 



At 4:48 PM -0800 1/2/98, Eric Cordian wrote:

>Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
>Subject: Kennedy Death Spurs Legislative Initiative
>Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:44:03 GMT
>Message-ID: <68jrg6$eil at dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
>
>BOSTON, Mass. (AP) - Sen. Ted Kennedy announced here today that he
>will introduce a bill limiting access to skis and ski poles. The
>"Winter Sports Safety Bill" is believed to be a reaction to the recent
>death of the Senator's nephew Michael Kennedy in a skiing accident.
...

And on a more serious note, one thing this affair shows is that once again,
the Kennedy clan (KC)  lives by different rules. Whether it's Edward
Kennedy getting off in the Mary Jo Kopechne case, when any of us would have
likely been charged with a) drunk driving, b) leaving the scene, c) lying
in an investigation, or whether it's this very same Michael Kennedy getting
off with his underage babysitter....

(Why was he not charged with statutory rape? Because the KC got to the
babysitter and, it is widely reported, bought her off. So why was the
_criminal_ charge of statutory rape not still applied? Because the
babysitter wouldn't testify.)

And so on, over and over again.

Wanna bet that if I was on the hill in Aspen horsing around playing ski
football and behaving like a drunken lout with a bunch of other people the
ski patrol would whistle us down and tell us to knock it off?

Justice has always been for sale in America. But with tens of thousands of
new laws, the effects are just becoming more obvious.

I say the death of Michael Kennedy, as with the death of Princess Di, was
just an example of evolution in action. (An imperfect example, of course,
as Di had already been bred.)

Regrettably, this satire about the Safe Slopes and Children's Protection
Act of 1998 is on the mark. Clueless bimbos like Swinestein, who's never
passed up a chance to make another law, will be jockeying for regulation of
the ski slopes...even as the Kennedy Clan remains exempt.

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ruemou32 at cc1.kuleuven.ac.be  Sat Jan  3 09:23:44 1998
From: ruemou32 at cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (Floodgate)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:23:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bulk Email For Profit
Message-ID: <199801031623UAA45320@post.ast.cam.ac.uk>



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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Not available on diskette or download.

===> WANT THE MILLIONS OF ADDRESSES FOR $100.00? <===

Just buy our Floodgate / Goldrush software package (with ALL
the bonuses INCLUDED), and the MILLIONS of addresses are yours
for just $100.00 additional.

These addresses will be delivered to you in simple text files
that any bulk emailing program can use, on CD Rom. With this CD,
YOU CAN BEGIN MAKING MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!!

***************************************************************

***SPECIAL BONUS #1:*** STOP Losing ISP Dial Up Accounts! 

If you order The FLOODGATE / GOLDRUSH software within the next 5 days - When you receive your program, you will also receive: 

*Complete instructions on "how to keep your dial up account from  showing up in the header", plus everything you will need to get started doing this. 

IMPORTANT NOTICE! We will initially only be offering 100 copies of the program for sale, First come / First Served basis only. We are doing this because of the extreme power that these programs offer.


***SPECIAL BONUS #2*** 

When you receive your two programs, you will also receive:
OVER 250 REPRINT AND RESELL RIGHTS REPORTS YOU CAN START TO MARKET
AND MAKE MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!! 

     These HOT sellers include: 
     1) How to Get a Top Rating in the Search Engines 
     2) 70 Money Making Reports 
     3) 75 MONEY MAKING PLANS & TRADE SECRETS and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!  
         ($200 RETAIL VALUE - FREE!!!) 


***SPECIAL BONUS #3***

With your two software programs, you will also receive our NEW "Address Grabber" utility program that enables you to grab 100's of THOUSANDS of email addresses from
newsgroups in minutes ($100 RETAIL VALUE - FREE).


***SPECIAL BONUS #4***

RECEIVE CHECKS BY EMAIL, PHONE OR FAX MACHINE. With this software
program, you can receive payment for your product or service INSTANTLY!!
There is no more waiting for your customers chec to arrive. This
software will no doubt, add to your sales, for customers who
don't have credit cards, as well as the impulse buyers.

With this software, you can print up your payments as soon as your
customer gives you his/her checking information. You will then
add the information given, to the proper blank check spaces, then
just print and go to the bank!!

         ***************************************************

To get your FREE demo and "test drive" our state-of-the-art software, 
visit our web site at:

		http://www.t-1net.com/floodgate 		

         ****************************************************

              HURRY ... RESERVE YOURS TODAY! 

So, if you are interested in taking advantage of the most powerful bulk 
email software in the world and start making money hand over fist.....

Print out the EZ ORDER form below and FAX or MAIL it to our office.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to call us at: 1-954-784-0312

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

386 or larger
Windows 95 OR Windows 3.1 with 8 meg ram
Extra 5 MB hard drive space

Floodgate & Goldrush can be run on a fast Mac with 24 MB RAM and SoftWindows.

NOTES FROM SATISFIED USERS

"It is everything you said it was. Within one week of my first mailing, I received a record number of orders. All you need to print money is a decent sales letter. Thanks." Randy albertson, Wolverine Capital.

"After using Floodgate and your utility program all day today, let me say these are as two of the finest programs I have ever bought in my 52 years! Your support has been superb. Thank You!" Vernon Hale, Prime Data Systems

"My first day and I just used Floodgate and Pegasus to send 1,469 sales letters. So far I've got about 25 positive responses. It works GREAT!!! Thanks." Donald Prior

"Floodgate is awesome!. I recently started a new business on-line. I stripped the addresses of the AOL & CIS classifieds. I sent out 3,497 email letters and got over 400 people to join my company in 5 days! Needless to say, it pays for itself." David Sheeham, OMPD

"I was able to use Floodgate to extract the names from the Internet news groups. It works perfectly. Needless to say, I am very excited about the use of this new technology." Mark Eberra, Inside Connections

"This is a great piece of software and an invaluable marketing tool." Joe Kuhn, The Millennium Group

"I just thought you'd like to know that this program is fantastic. After loading it on my system, I wanted to test it out. In my first hour of using this, I collected 6,092 email addresses!" Richard Kahn, LD Communications

"I just love the Floodgate program. It saves me hours and hours of time. This is the beginning of a wonderful FUN time marketing on-line. Thank you so much for writing this program." Beth O'Neill, Eudora, KS

"Your software is brilliant, and from the technical support I've received, I can see you have a genuine love and respect of people...Floodgate is a divine package. Wish I had found it sooner." Tom Sanders, Peoria, IL

"I really like the way the Floodgate software package works. It is very easy to use, and really does the trick. It has already saved me an incredible amount of time and energy." John Berning, Jr., Fairfield, NJ

"It's going great with FLOODGATE! I like using Delphi. I just collected 50,000+ addresses within 20 minutes on-line." Richard Kahn, R&B Associates

-------------------------------------------------
E-Z ORDER FORM:

Please print out this order form and fill in the blanks......
Please send order form and check or money order, payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077-2261
(954) 784-0312


______Yes! I would like to try your cutting-edge software so that I can advertise my business to thousands of people on-line whenever I like! I understand that I have 10 days to trial the software. If I am not fully delighted, I will cheerfully be refunded the purchase price, no questions asked! Please rush me the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package now!

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package at a substantial discount! I am ordering BOTH software packages for only $349.95. (Save $150 off the retail price....Software has sold for as much as $2,499.95)

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

______I want to receive the package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $18.00 for shipping charges.

______I want to receive the package 2nd DAY. I'm including $10.00 (includes insurance & return receipt) for shipping charges.

______I'm ordering Floodgate / Goldrush software and want to order the MILLIONS of email addresses as well. My additional cost is $100.00 enclosed.

______I'm NOT ordering your Floodgate / Goldrush software, but I
want to order your MILLIONS of email addresses on CD. Enclosed is $249.00.

______I'm interested in reselling this unique software package, and earning $100.00
per sale. I understand YOU will be the technician for MY customers. Send me further
information. (You MUST purchase this program in order to be a reseller for the
Floodgate / Goldrush software package).

(CHECKS: ALLOW 1 WEEK FOR BANK CLEARANCE)


YOUR NAME_________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME_________________________________________________

YOUR POSITION_____________________________________________

STREET ADDRESS______________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP____________________________________________

PHONE NUMBERS_______________________________________________

FAX NUMBERS_________________________________________________

EMAIL ADDRESSES_____________________________________________

************************************************************

We accept Checks, Money Orders, MasterCard, Visa,
American Express. You can either mail your order to 
us OR fax your order to:

			954-572-5837
************************************************************

Today's date:_____________
 
Visa____MasterCard____American Express____Discover_______
 
Card #:____________________________________________________
 
Expiration date:___________________________________________
 
Name on card:______________________________________________
 
Billing address:___________________________________________
 
Amount to be charged: $________________


Signature:___________________________________________


I agree to pay Dave Mustachi an additional $29 fee if my check is returned for insufficient or uncollectable funds.

SIGNATURE: X________________________________DATE:_______________

Please send all order forms and check or money order to payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077
(954) 784-0312


***************************************************

OR:

PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE

(If you fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check by mail. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check that you faxed to us)

Please fax the above order form and check to: 1-954-572-58





From ravage at ssz.com  Fri Jan  2 18:14:55 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:14:55 +0800
Subject: Creative Justice?... [CNN] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801030233.UAA16300@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:
>From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan  2 20:33:21 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199801030233.UAA16279 at einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Creative Justice?... [CNN]
To: users at ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:33:15 -0600 (CST)
Cc: friends at ssz.com (Ravage's Friends)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2327      


Forwarded message:

>                  DRUNKEN DRIVER ORDERED CLOSER TO LIQUOR STORE
>                                        
>      graphic January 2, 1998
>      Web posted at: 8:39 p.m. EST (0139 GMT)
>      
>      CINCINNATI (Reuters) -- An Ohio judge has ordered a chronic drunken
>      driver to move within easy walking distance of a liquor store or
>      face jail.
>      
>      In a sentence meted out on New Year's Eve, Hillsboro Municipal Judge
>      James Hapner ordered Dennis Cayse to move within "easy walking
>      distance" -- defined as one-half mile or less -- of a liquor store
>      within 30 days or face a potential 1-1/2-year jail sentence for
>      drunken driving.
>      
>      It was Cayse's 18th conviction for drunken driving. He was also
>      sentenced to spend the first week of each of the next five years in
>      jail.
>      
>      The judge also directed that Cayse, who lost his license years ago
>      but continued to drink and drive, be handcuffed to the
>      passenger-side door or be seated with someone between him and the
>      driver anytime he travels.
>      
>      University of Cincinnati law professor Christo Lassiter said the
>      multiple sentence passed constitutional muster.
>      
>      "It appears to me that this sentence is neither unconstitutional nor
>      inappropriate," Lassiter told Reuters Friday. "It looks to me like
>      the judge felt that there was nothing he could do to keep the man
>      off the road except to make him move to where he could walk to buy
>      his booze."
>      
>      Hillsboro is a town of 6,000 just east of Cincinnati.
>      
>      "For as long as I have been associated with law enforcement, I have
>      never heard of such an unusual sentence. It's very squirrelly," said
>      Lt. Ronald Ward of the Highland County sheriff's office.
>      
>      "I have known Dennis Cayse a long time and I've never seen him sober
>      except when he was in jail," Ward said. "His lifetime record shows
>      that if he is not in jail, he's going to drink and drive."
>      
>      A spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving denounced the
>      sentence, saying it was too lenient and sends the wrong public
>      message.
>      
>      Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.






From comsec at nym.alias.net  Fri Jan  2 21:09:08 1998
From: comsec at nym.alias.net (Charlie Comsec)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:09:08 +0800
Subject: Remailer Logs (and Accountability)
In-Reply-To: <199712221346.OAA03091@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <19980103050003.766.qmail@nym.alias.net>




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

usura at sabotage.org (Alex de Joode) wrote:

> : I suspect that if you polled remailer operators you'd find that some
> : keep logs and some don't.  I don't know about the Replay remailer.  Perhaps
> : Alex DeJoode (the operator of the Replay remailer) would care to comment.  Nor 
> : can logs necessarily positively identify you.  If kept, they would record when 
> : your message came in and when the post to usenet went out, but *PROBABLY* 
> : would not establish a conclusive link between the two.  Many remailers 
> : maintain a "reordering pool" where forwarded messages do not necessarily get 
> : sent out in the order they were received.
> 
> I donnot keep sendmaillogs, I donnot keep remailerlogs and I let 
> usenet do my mail2newslogging ... (They can ofcourse always supena 
> /dev/null, and then they get everything ..) 

Good.  No reason to tempt the Big Brother types (and wannabes).
BTW, people outside the remailer operator and user community seem to
assume that logs ARE kept.  I'm curious to know how often
individuals, organizations, and maybe even governments make requests
for your logs.

Oh ... also, if you don't mind, can you uuencode your /dev/null and
send it to me? 

> The "reordering pool" is 
> always a minimum of 5 messages so people can opt for how long their 
> message wil be 'stashed' at replay. (use 'Latency: +00:00' for zero latecy).

Is that default reordering pool size the same for Type I and Type II
messages?

Perhaps someone can double-check my math on this.  Assuming
equally-sized messages that are otherwise indistinguishable, and a
reordering pool size of five, then the odds of matching up an
encrypted incoming message with an encrypted outgoing message are
one in five.

Thus a message chained through n remailers (each having a reordering
pool size of 5) would be diffused among 5^n possible messages to
thwart potential traffic analysis.

What I'm unclear on is how setting a Latency:  flag affects the
diffusion of the output.  Is that lattency IN ADDITION to the pool
size of five, or does Latency:  +00:00 bypass the reordering process
altogether?

My main concern is the security of chained reply blocks which are
more vulnerable to attack than normal anonymous messages.  A single
anonymous message can only be traced BACKWARDS after it's been
received.  An anonymous reply, OTOH, could, theoretically, be
"walked" through each remailer in the chain until the identity of
the recipient was discovered.  While that process would require
convincing each remailer operator in the chain to cooperate, it's a
lot more feasible than tracing a message backwards to its source.
(Yes, I know about posting to a public message pool, such as a.a.m,
but NG posting seems to be rather unreliable lately.)

- ----
Finger  for PGP public key (Key ID=19BE8B0D)


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From cash4u at polbox.com  Sat Jan  3 15:09:39 1998
From: cash4u at polbox.com (cash4u at polbox.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get into the pay per call industry for FREE
Message-ID: <199801032303.PAA21057@denmark.it.earthlink.net>


Your e-mail address was taken from a post YOU left on a bulletin board or message board. Placing your address on such a medium indicates that you might be willing to receive mail from people who browse the internet. If you do not want receive this type of mailing, you might want to add your address to the remove list at one of the anti-spam web-sites.

=============================================

Hi, I'm sorry to intrude, but I had to share this with as many people as I could!
I have found a company that gives away the use of their pay per call services with no costs or lease for the lines!
I have several 900 lines for different services, and I am making some good coin from them, and now I want to help others get into the pay per call industry too.
The info I have will get you set up with the leading pay per call company in the US, and best of all...THERE ARE NO COSTS OR FEES!!

I am sending this note and asking for a 10.00 donation for the time it took me to find the info and get it to you, anyone willing to part with 10.00 will be a happy soul when they get their first check from their phone line or lines.
===============================================================

PROFITS ARE SOARING!!!
With 900, 800 and 011 Numbers
If you would like to make money while doing nothing...then this is the
business for you.
Programs are ready for you to choose from:
BBS Services
Live Adult 1-on-1 & 2-on-1 (Many Languages, Straight & Gay)
Recorded Fantasy Lines (Many Languages)
Datelines
Chat Lines
Live Psychic
Or create your very own program!
We have over 2000 Men & Women waiting for the phones to ring!!! We provide
24-hour service, answer your calls, and pay all phone company carrying
costs.

All you have to do is advertise! If you have an Internet Site this could
very well become your Primary Source of Income

Remember, the more people see your number, the more they'll call.The more
calls you get, the more money you make.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
There are NO START UP COSTS or MONTHLY FEES with our 800 & 011 NUMBERS!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
You may choose one of the following programs to start out with:
BBS
Live 1-on-1
Recorded Fantasy
Chat Line
Date Line
Gay 1-on-1
Psychic Line
Horoscope
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
To start your own business NOW, send $10.00 cash, certified check,� or money
order along with your e-mail address. I will e-mail all the info you need to get started
earning your dream income.

The $10.00 is the only cost you will ever have and it is just to cover my
time and effort, there will be no charge to set-up and manage your phone
system and you will be able to check your line's stats through a web page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Send your order to;
Rick Kowalski
617 Gateway Road
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R2K-2X8
NOTE that this is a real address, not a P. O. box. This is not a scam, the
info is free, but I will only send it if my efforts are rewarded.

Have a great day,
Rick










From NLYNCH4401 at aol.com  Sat Jan  3 17:15:25 1998
From: NLYNCH4401 at aol.com (NLYNCH4401 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SUZAN, YOUR MAIL
Message-ID: <199801040115.UAA02647@eola.ao.net>


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                        CALL 24 HOURS 1-800-669-0203


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NEW AND IMPROVED DATING SERVICE IT'S LIVE IT'S AWESOME!!!!!
                       CALL 24 HOURS 1-888-232-1992






From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Sat Jan  3 03:12:29 1998
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:12:29 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Paul Bradley wrote:

[...]

> > Welcome to the 20th Century, moron.
> 
> You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market 
> and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the 
> fuck they like for any reason whatsoever.

My rights to swing my fists end at your noise.  When ever you interact
with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights.  Even Adam
Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of
the market.

Also recall the free market model assumes that the word is full of totaly
rational pepeale who have full knowige of the market.  Any one who has
been on this list knows that these peaple are somewhat uncommen.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

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From sheriff at speakeasy.org  Sat Jan  3 03:46:32 1998
From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:46:32 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <34AD5B24.520C3851@infomaniak.ch>
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than
>>just the cell you're in... but you never know
>
>They can't really (the cell relay equipment is not up to the task).

What about the new digital phones?

Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste,
The Sheriff. -- ******
- ---
As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and
confirm the signature attached to this message.  Either
that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search
for my e-mail address.
- ---
Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory
efforts.  Solicitations are NOT welcome here!
- ---
        ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK----
Version: 160 (IQ)
Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses.

Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?"
- ---
Citizen: "Public enemy?"
          [long pause]
         "Probably somebody in office."
        -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK-----


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From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan  3 05:00:22 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:00:22 +0800
Subject: The Codeleakers
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980103125335.0073b628@pop.pipeline.com>



http://www.mercury-rising.com/

                  Mercury Rising

Art Jeffries (Bruce Willis), a disillusioned, outcast FBI agent, is 
the only one who can protect an orphaned nine-year-old autistic 
savant (Miko Hughes) when he becomes the target of assassins after
inadvertently deciphering a top-secret government military code.
Lt. Colonel Nicholas Kudrow (Alec Baldwin) is the National Security
agent assigned to unveil the source of the code's leak. 

                    Preview
            5fps - 4.9MB / 10fps - 8.1MB 

            The film opens April 3, 1998.
                Website Coming Soon! 






From kping at nym.alias.net  Sat Jan  3 05:45:21 1998
From: kping at nym.alias.net (Kay Ping)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:45:21 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
Message-ID: <19980103133555.12753.qmail@nym.alias.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss
>>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a
>>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back
>>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported.
>
>Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here in
>Amerika right now.

The FCC has issued a ruling that will require all cellular telephone
carriers to provide location information on all 911 calls. By the year
2001, this location information is to provide 125 metres of accuracy 67%
of the time.

Helping emergency services locate 911 callers is a great excuse for 
installing  a cellular location system. Even better than the excuses they 
gave for eavesdropping-ready digital switches and limits on encryption.

An accuracy of 125 meters seems quite impressive considering the facts
that cellular channels are plagued by very long multipath dispersion and
that a narrowband FM signal is much less than ideal for calculating delay.

- --------------
Kay Ping
nop 'til you drop

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From amaret at infomaniak.ch  Sat Jan  3 05:49:44 1998
From: amaret at infomaniak.ch (Alexandre Maret)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:49:44 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34AE4047.212669B2@infomaniak.ch>



The LPD (law on data protection) :
	http://193.5.216.40/ch/f/rs/235_1/index.html
	http://193.5.216.40/ch/f/rs/235_11/index.html
	(in french, italian, german only)

The LPD states that you can get a copy of your database entry printed
on paper, for a cost of max 300SFrs (about US$200), unless some special
cases which have to be specified in the law. Since the debate is based
on the fact that there is no legal text that allows swisscom to record
these informations, there is no legal text that allow them not to
communicate your informations on request. I'm not a jurist, but it
may be an interesting path to follow.

If they store the location of your phone every 3 secs, for 6 month,
this means 5'241'600 locations. Printed on 70 lines/page paper,
this means 74'880 A4 pages. Do you think they'd be happy to print
and send you 74'880 pages for 300SFrs ?

There is certain rules that allow them to postpone your request.
However, they have to tell you before. Just wondering what would
happen if 100'000 people asks for their last 6 month of positions...

> >Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/
> >mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the
> >swiss people are informed...
> 
> Now this guy (Odilo Guntern) seems to have no clue about anything...

Last month, I was thinking about launching a web site to inform
swiss citizen about these issues. A kind of swiss EPIC. However,
I can't do this alone.

If anybody is interested by this idea, drop me a mail.

> Wanna get more paranoid? Some companies log all Internet traffic of their
> employees

hmmm... no need to become more paranoid, enough is enough.

> that passes through their proxy (which you have to use for anything to
> work) for
> some weeks (Weren't you the one chatting on #really-naughty-bits for more
> than 1
> hour on Monday??).
> And of course, phonenumbers you call in your company are logged, too.

swisscom does it. They log all the internal/external mail of their
employees...

  alex






From shamrock at cypherpunks.to  Sat Jan  3 06:14:07 1998
From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:14:07 +0800
Subject: Remailer under NT [was:Re: your mail]
In-Reply-To: <199801011858.KAA07272@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: 



On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Mix wrote:

> Okay, I'd like to set up a remailer - but I don't know where to start!
> Unfortunatly it's going to have to run on an NT 4.0 box, so the winsock
> remailer is out of the question, right? And I'm not in the US, so I
> can't use the juno stuff -- so what (if anything) *can* I use? 

AT&T offers a free UNIX (korn shell) emulator for NT. Check
ftp://ftp.research.att.com/

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. 
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"






From MoneyTrain at mci2000.com  Sat Jan  3 22:47:35 1998
From: MoneyTrain at mci2000.com (MoneyTrain at mci2000.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:47:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 1998: TOP PRIORITY!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199710022632NNA15968@post.net>




 

<< MAKE 1998 MORE FUN WITH MORE CASH!!!!

PRINT OR SAVE THIS E-MAIL LIKE I DID. MANY PEOPLE ARE MAKING LOTS OF MONEY. DON'T BE LEFT OUT. I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

"Please Read This Twice!"

Dear friend, ========================================================= ========================================================= This is a "ONE-TIME MESSAGE" you were randomly selected to receive this. There is no need to reply to remove, you will receive no further mailings from us. If you have interest in this GREAT INFORMATION, please do not click reply, use the contact information in this message. Thank You! :-) ========================================================= ========================================================= *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ You could make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! Results may vary. Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the program... THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! You are looking at the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. It has demonstrated and proven ability to generate large sums of money. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever growing population which needs additional income. This is a legitimate LEGAL money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail. If you believe that some day you will get that lucky break that you have been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the easy instructions, and your dream will come true! This electronic multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to raise capital to start their own business, pay off debts, buy homes, cars, etc., even retire! This is your chance, so don't pass it up.

OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM

Basically, this is what we do: We sell thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs us next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (with your computer). The product in this program is a series of four businesses and financial reports. Each $5.00 order you receive by "snail mail" will include the e-mail address of the sender. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT!...the $5.00 is yours! This is the GREATEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY! Let's face it, the profits are worth it! THEY'RE TREMENDOUS!!! So go for it. Remember the 4 points and we'll see YOU at the top! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports listed and numbered from the list below. For each report send $5.00 CASH, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to each person listed. When you order, make sure you request each SPECIFIC report. You will need all four reports, because you will be saving them on your computer and reselling them. 2. IMPORTANT--DO NOT alter the names, or their sequence other than instructed in this program! Or you will not profit the way you should. Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped off the list and is NO DOUBT on the way to the bank. When doing this, please make certain you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!! Also, DO NOT move the Report/Product positions! 3. Take this entire program text, including the corrected names list, and save it on your computer. 4. Now you're ready to start a massive advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, but there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise also. Another avenue which you could use is e-mail mailing lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/1,000 addresses. START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN AS SOON AS YOU CAN. ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!!

REQUIRED REPORTS

***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (concealed) FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER. ALWAYS SEND FIRST CLASS OR PRIORITY MAIL AND PROVIDE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR QUICK DELIVERY. ___________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTILEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: RICE ENTERPRISES 14001 DALLAS PKWY, STE. 1200 DALLAS, TX 75240 ___________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: MARK KITCHEN 3440 WATKINS LAKE ROAD WATERFORD, MI 48328 ___________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: MAKIN-MOOLA P.O. BOX 271926 FT. COLLINS, CO 80527-1926 _____________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: MY-TURN P.O. BOX 272453 FORT COLLINS, CO 80527-2453 ____________________________________________________

HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet could EASILY get a better response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR BUILDING ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example for the STAGGERING results below. 1st level -- your 10 members with $5 ($5 x 10) $50 2nd level --10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100) $500 3rd level -- 10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000) $5,000 4th level -- 10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000) $50,000 THIS TOTALS-----------> $55,550 Remember friends, this is assuming that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone got 20 people to participate! Some people get 100's of recruits! THINK ABOUT IT! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and email is FREE!!! REPORT#3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists. REMEMBER: Approx. 105,000 new people get online monthly!

ORDER YOUR REPORTS NOW!!!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY, so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/ report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESS! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

The check point that guarantees your success is simply this: You MUST receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1! THIS IS A MUST! If you don't within two weeks, advertise more and send out more programs until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, advertise more and send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100, or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because you will be on your way to the BANK! -OR- You can DOUBLE your efforts! REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list you are in front of a DIFFERENT report, so you can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by what report people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY!!! NOTE: IF YOU NEED HELP with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes. ******* T E S T I M O N I A L S ******* This 4 report program has turned my life completely around. Have you ever been in debt over $100,000? It's a scary feeling. You consider bankruptcy, you consider all kinds of crazy schemes to make money and you dump alot of the little you have left into many of them. I have spent thousands of dollars on seminars and courses. I think I must own at least half of the books ever published on making money. Some are helpful, most are not. This program came across my desk numerous times, both through the post and via email over the years. I think I must have been pretty desperate when I finally broke down and really read through the letter. After all I had been through, suddenly a little light went on! This thing could really work? After all I spent on trying to learn how to get myself out from under this debt load this plan was only going to cost me $20 plus some of my time. I already had a computer and email, so........ This is getting too long, so let me finish up here. I have now started on my fourth time through the program! That $100,000 debt is GONE! I can talk to my friends and relatives now and they don't cringe for fear I'm going to ask for money. We are starting to build our business up and we have the capital to do it now! I have chosen the year 2000 for our retirement and I'm going to make it with time to spare. Does this plan work? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! J. S. Todd Canada This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work, you'll lose a lot of money. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. If you are a fellow Christian and are in financial trouble like I was, consider this a sign. I DID! Good Luck & God Bless You, Sincerely, Chris Johnson P.S. Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,500) looks like piled up on the kitchen table?...IT'S AWESOME! My name is Frank. My wife Doris and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail"! I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was stunned. I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work...I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "little" hobby. I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me...We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD This is the only realistic money-making offer I've ever received. I participated because this plan truly makes sense. I was surprised when the $5.00 bills started filling my mail box. By the time it tapered off I had received over 8,000 orders with over $40,000 in cash. Dozens of people have sent warm personal notes too, sharing the news of their good fortunes! It's been WONDERFUL. Carl Winslow Tulsa, OK The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. Initially I let no one in the organization know that I was an attorney and, to my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown This plan works like GANG-BUSTERS!! So far I have had 9,735 total orders OVER $48,000!!! I hope I have sparked your own excitement, if you follow the program exactly, you could have the same success I have, if not better. Your success is right around the corner, but you must do a little work. Good Luck! G. Bank Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy I was surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders. After that it got so over-loaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made $41,000 on the first try!! D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and quite soon we will buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Remember, when you order your four reports, SEND CASH. Checks have to clear the bank and create too many delays. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA Typically when I look at a money-making deal I want to know if the company is strong, will it be here when it's time for my big pay off. In this crazy thing there is no company intervention for management to blow it. Just people like me ordering directly from the source! Interesting...I had a couple of projects I'd been trying to fund to no avail so I thought; Why not give it a try? Well 2 1/2 weeks later the orders started coming in. One project is funded and I'm sure the other will be soon! Marilynn St. Claire, Logan, UT ====================================================

We could be printing YOUR testimonial next!!! ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED DOWN THE ROAD TO From rp at rpini.com Sat Jan 3 07:09:43 1998 From: rp at rpini.com (Remo Pini) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:09:43 +0800 Subject: eudora plugin Message-ID: <199801031502.QAA19999@linux.rpini.com> There would by chance be anyone around who would know where the Eudora Plugin Patch for PGP 5.5 (NT/95) can be downloaded (or aquired otherwise) outside USA? (http://www.pgp.com/products/eudora.cgi) Thanks, Remo ----------------------------------------------------- Fate favors the prepared mind. (from "Under Siege 3") ----------------------------------------------------- Remo Pini T: +41 1 350 28 88 Pini Computer Trading N: +41 79 216 15 51 http://www.rpini.com/ E: rp at rpini.com key: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/remopini.asc ----------------------------------------------------- From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sat Jan 3 08:21:57 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:21:57 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim May writes: > And on a more serious note, one thing this affair shows is that once again, > the Kennedy clan (KC) lives by different rules. Whether it's Edward > Kennedy getting off in the Mary Jo Kopechne case, when any of us would have > likely been charged with a) drunk driving, b) leaving the scene, c) lying > in an investigation, or whether it's this very same Michael Kennedy getting > off with his underage babysitter.... Joe Kennedy was a common thug, no different from the Gambinos and the Genoveses. He made millions of dollars during the prohibition smuggling whiskey from Canada. He personally murdered numerous of fellow drug dealers and law enforcement officers (OK, he's not all bad :-) and dozens more were murdered on his orders. He then bought political offices for his kids, which is precisely what his colleagues - cocaine and heroin deales from Cali, medellin, etc cartels - get blamed for in Mexico and Colombia. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From bdolan at USIT.NET Sat Jan 3 09:08:12 1998 From: bdolan at USIT.NET (Brad) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:08:12 +0800 Subject: Which side are you on, brother? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Watching the DOJ/MS fight is sort of like watching Iraq and Iran fight. Or Iraq and Kuwait. I have a hard time working up much enthusiasm for either side. What finally knocked me onto {gasp, choke} Gates' side, was the following: WSJ, p. A16, 12/23/97 Dole Backing Effort to Slow Microsoft Plan Washington - Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole has been sending letters and calling companies seeking their support in an expanding campaign to curb Microsoft Corp.'s entrance into new Internet businesses. Mr. Dole is part of a nascent but growing lobbying effort that goes far beyond issues raised by the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. ... Mr. Dole is representing several companies, including Microsoft computer rivals Netscape Communications Corp., and Sun Microsystems Corp., and Sabre Group Holdings Inc., a Dallas-based airlines reservation system that faces competition from Microsoft. ... 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Newsletter simply select reply and send us a quick reply to this email. ------------------------------------------------------------ From schear at lvdi.net Sat Jan 3 09:53:11 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:53:11 +0800 Subject: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: <19980103133555.12753.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: At 1:35 PM +0000 1/3/98, Kay Ping wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss >>>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a >>>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back >>>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported. >> >>Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here in >>Amerika right now. > >The FCC has issued a ruling that will require all cellular telephone >carriers to provide location information on all 911 calls. By the year >2001, this location information is to provide 125 metres of accuracy 67% >of the time. The FCC may have ruled it, but its doubtful that the carriers can provide it. Doing better than than a cell sector will depend on many factors, including: specific technology (analog, GSM, CDMA, etc.), frequency and local propagation characteristics, especially multipath conditions. >From parallel discussions on the cryptography list: 800 MHz analog may be the most difficult. GSM perhaps can reach 500 meteres under ideal conditions (Andreas Bogk). IS-95/CDMA probably a bit better than GSM due to the very high data (chip) rate and spread spectrum's better multipath characteristics, although the system's multipath performance most improves communications not ranging (Phil Karn, Qualcomm). --Steve PGP mail preferred, see http://www.pgp.com and http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61 812E CCA9 A44A FBA9 RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654 CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673 Lammar Laboratories | 7075 West Gowan Road | Suite 2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: schear at lvdi.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- From carsten.hartwig at rhein-main.net Sat Jan 3 12:04:41 1998 From: carsten.hartwig at rhein-main.net (Carsten Hartwig) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:04:41 +0800 Subject: Which side are you on, brother? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980103205938.007c1100@mail.rhein-main.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rdl at mit.edu Sat Jan 3 13:17:54 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:17:54 +0800 Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) Message-ID: I've only seen bolt action .50s fired. They're not *too* heavy, and from the amount of muzzle flash, noise, etc. it gave, I'd be as comfortable using it at 1000-1500 yards as I would a .308 at 600-1000 yards. Given proper concealment and the absence of anyone looking directly at you when you fire, that is. Professional sniping is a 2 man operation anyway -- against a target that can shoot back, you really want to have a spotter. >From what I can gather, the US military seems to agree with this strategy -- .308s for traditional sniping, .50 for anti-materiel, extreme long range, and countersniping. Attacking an incoming force which has its own snipers is mostly a job for the .50. And if I were in the field on the offense, I'd be attacking small enough groups that a few .50 rounds would be sufficient to kill them all or at least immobilize them. Or high enough value targets to make a more likely kill worth the higher risk during E&E. True, they mainly use bolt-action .50s -- if the semi auto version is really that much heavier, I'd probably go for the bolt action gun in the field and the semi at my home. For Tim May's situation, in a house, they know fairly well that he's firing from the house. Pretty much any weapon will give enough signature for them to zero in on it and fire. If he's lucky, and they just have carbines and 7.62 snipers, he could fire from one room, move to another, fire, etc. Or have enough cover to keep himself from getting hit. But at some point, they'll just bring in a real countersniper asset, like an automatic cannon, and any muzzle flash will be responded to with several hundred AP/explosive shells. Within the house, the weight of a .50 isn't that bad -- and the extra 500-1000 yards and AP capability might make a difference against a raid. At the very least, it'll get his place firebombed rather than shot up :) Forcing them to keep outside the 1500-2000 yard high danger range from a .50 (or forcing them to stay behind serious cover) would give him a chance to duck out and fight another day, too :) A .50 is also a bit more effective against helicopters containing special forces "monitoring" personnel who are there (but of course not actually there) in violation of the law. It would be interesting to fit one's house with speakers/noise generators/ flash generators/smoke/etc. to make it look as if one has an automatic cannon or a small army, in response to a raid. It would make a perfect distraction during which to leave :) I'd much rather write code, make money, and leave the country (not necessarily in that order) than worry about defending myself from a government which has shown time and time again it is willing to ignore the law, though. [ObCrypto: * Eternity DDS is coming along. The current almost-ready-for-announcement version is using Postgres95 for a backend, sigh. Design for the first production-demo system is progressing as well. * The Cypherpunks Archive project I was working on is also progressing. Unfortunately, my archive is kind of weird -- it's in MIT discuss format, and converting it into mbox is nontrivial, given the size of the file. After adding more memory to the system on which I'm editing the file, I think I have an mbox file which is just missing one field. I'm planning to index them with hypermail, then glimpse. On the cd, I'll put the original mbox file, either as a single massive file or broken up, depending on what people want, as well as a precomputed index and perhaps the web site version as well. The next step is to put all of the cypherpunks archives into Eternity DDS -- Postgres95 seems to puke on large data objects sometimes, so I'll need to fix that. Once I get the cypherpunks archive done, I'll work on some other lists. And then hopefully some people will buy CD-Rs so I can buy another 25gb of HDD or so :) * Financial people are pretty cool. I just got back from talking to some about the Eternity Service concept, and they were really excited. I really didn't expect non-(electronic finance) finance people to be interested in it right away. They even got more excited when the magic word "cryptography" was mentioned. Perhaps finance will fix the software industry. -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 3 13:32:32 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:32:32 +0800 Subject: Dimitry "The Hair" Vulis Message-ID: <199801032116.WAA06540@basement.replay.com> Poor Dimitry! He can dish it out, but not take it. Everyone should give Dimitry a call and tell him how much he is appreciated. Dr. Dimitry Vulis's home phone number: Vulis, Dimitri (DV1006) postmaster at DM.COM D&M Consulting Services Inc. 67-67 Burns Street Forest Hills, NY 11375 718-261-6839 (FAX) 212-725-0693 The 212 number is goes directly into his home 718 (Brooklyn) house, and is answered by a person. Talk with the devil himself! ---simvlad From brianbr at together.net Sat Jan 3 14:01:20 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:01:20 +0800 Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801032150.QAA29689@mx02.together.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/3/98 4:05 PM, Ryan Lackey (rdl at mit.edu) passed this wisdom: >I've only seen bolt action .50s fired. They're not *too* heavy, and >from the amount of muzzle flash, noise, etc. it gave, I'd be as >comfortableusing it at 1000-1500 yards as I would a .308 at >600-1000 yards. Given proper concealment and the absence of anyone >looking directly at you when you fire, that is. Professional >sniping is a 2 man operation anyway --against a target that can >shoot back, you really want to have a spotter. I finally remebered where I saw it. In Tom Clancy's non-fiction book "MARINE: A Guided Tour of a Marine Expeditionary Unit." On pages 75-77 (there is a good picture too) he details the history and developement as well as the uses of the "Barrett M82A1A .50-cal special-purpose sniper rifle." It is for all intents and purposes a Brownig M2 .50-cal machine gun barrel/receiver set o a newly designed spring recoil system to be fired from shoulder wit bipod. It is chambered for the NATO standard .50-cal/12.7mm ammunition. It was developed by Ronnie Barrett of Murfeesboro, Tennessee and further developement sponsored by the USG and was first deployed by the CIA with the Mujahadeen in Afgahnistan where they used it to make some Russian troops quite miserable from a long way off. The sucess of it in Afghanistan force the military to consider it. Nothing is said concerning other services but it has been adopted by the USMC Force Recon for use by a three man team. The gun is broken down into upper reciever, lower reciver, and scope and ammo. There may be .50-cal bolt actions out there that are one man carries, but the Barrett gun is a three man load. The gun is 57 inches long and weighs 32.5 pounds, unloaded with no scope. The primary mission of the gun is not man sniping, though I am sure it often has been and will be used in that role, but its main aim is to long range snipe and disable antennae, dishes, equipment, etc using the AP and API ammunition. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNK6ybj7r4fUXwraZAQGSNgf/X6+K6j5lzj1odfzDM0HUfTnNzcc/RgSD OHHelk3Elb0jLDIX76KJsVOghDQ228QA+dFa+dEH+3YyjquIclKp4UBrfqw42Rfd Fv/HVinE9qLKse4PVY3Mjeqt8jHCGO01RHNATnrArDA6C2lVJIeE1tIDVGDVVtI2 bndGRnOexSXrFSm+5ux1GejWUYzUbLiQIOmfNSJMpzi8WwfQ/I3OLyFm5I6y9DR1 IiQZRs4RoqJ6f4caiZWz62/L6iivwKsOX6LCHlZAjz/6Ld+/o6ZtC0cjn/yWtUqL +3n/ZVydK+jGQ+rHopM4Eg1NGL5aRt+ANkKRDeTXohNlwfkCvI4xGA== =zI8W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go around repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence." -- Charles M. Beard From pjm at spe.com Sat Jan 3 14:01:44 1998 From: pjm at spe.com (Patrick May) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:01:44 +0800 Subject: Time to Pay the Piper In-Reply-To: <19980102.081442.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: <1669-Sat03Jan1998030310-0800-Patrick May Attila T. Hun writes: [ . . . ] > > At 05:15 PM 12/21/1997 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: > >> there is only one solution to organizations like M$ > >> which are operated without ethics: treat them to the > >> pleasures of not only the antitrust laws but the > >> exquisite delights of RICO. [ . . . ] > 1) when a true market monopoly exists, society _is_ > entitled to intervene. I wrote my Harvard thesis on > antitrust and the effect on society of a monopoly, Ah, that explains why a bad-ass with a vocabulary would spout such nonsense. That little liberal arts college up the river from my alma mater can corrupt even the finest minds. Rather than go down yet another libertarian v. statist debate rathole, I'll just quote one of the more notorious (former) list members by saying: "I have a solution for that." The federal government should immediately stop purchasing and using Microsoft products. No more monopoly, no court cases, no delay. Free market and technical solutions are always superior to legal remedies. Regards, Patrick May S P Engineering, Inc. From anon at anon.efga.org Sat Jan 3 17:34:11 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:34:11 +0800 Subject: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by St Message-ID: <400641a667f1ebd324c0c58d8ef866f9@anon.efga.org> > Yes, the VME 98 is the same product that challenged Microsoft, > IBM, AT&T, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, America Online, > Netscape, etc. to break a VME encrypted file. All the great > computer minds in this country have had an opportunity to > dispel the bold claims of unbreakable encryption, yet none have. Why should Microsoft, IBM, AT&T, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, America Online, Netscape, "all the great computer minds in this country," etc. give a flying fuck? From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 3 17:45:01 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:45:01 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Message-ID: <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com> Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! From whgiii at invweb.net Sat Jan 3 18:06:36 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:06:36 +0800 Subject: Microsoft In-Reply-To: <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801040209.VAA17936@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801040125.CAA09309 at basement.replay.com>, on 01/04/98 at 02:25 AM, Anonymous said: >Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! Well when you bend over and squeal like a pig what do you expect?!? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNK7taY9Co1n+aLhhAQHNiwQAxieliKHUE97aAZ+eZ0u64vtO4eZaaQyz vjdLpOksrSRuF9+m2PqOcwf4tjSHUHR5g6C90fjiGR8Cs2sFD6eWByCOGlR2r5t0 DAiZA7WryKf3V06mw6266F2VaeRIZ5HUrKaCXeGPtb2I8kGKwCuWqM6kGLnzt96S J1C+ddiKFsk= =Mllk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at nsm.htp.org Sat Jan 3 18:15:50 1998 From: nobody at nsm.htp.org (nobody at nsm.htp.org) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:15:50 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Message-ID: <19980104020914.26009.qmail@nsm.htp.org> At 02:25 98/01/04 +0100, Anonymous wrote: > Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! > > > For relief, see: http://www.enemy.org/ From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Jan 3 18:26:56 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:26:56 +0800 Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: > It would be interesting to fit one's house with speakers/noise generators/ > flash generators/smoke/etc. to make it look as if one has an automatic > cannon or a small army, in response to a raid. It would make a perfect > distraction during which to leave :) [The following is a theoretical discusion. Do not try this at home]. What you really want is the ability to slow down the mobility of the raid force while making your exit. In a prolonged siege, the attacker will always win. A good way of slowing down the attacker after an initial armed response is to deploy chemicals. A combination of Tabun and Mustard Gas works best, but don't deploy them at the same time. Use the Tabun first for maximium impact. Follow up with the Mustard Gas a few minutes later. The underground irrigation systems common on California properties are ideal means of gas deployment. You should be able to retrofit the system for under $500. Assuming you already have the gas. Of course you need to make sure to keep a chem suit at home. After you make your exit, you can clean out the next with a previously installed fuel/air explosive. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu Sat Jan 3 19:10:50 1998 From: andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu (Andy Dustman) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:10:50 +0800 Subject: [RePol] Re: Remailer Logs (and Accountability) In-Reply-To: <19980103050003.766.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 3 Jan 1998, Charlie Comsec wrote: > > The "reordering pool" is > > always a minimum of 5 messages so people can opt for how long their > > message wil be 'stashed' at replay. (use 'Latency: +00:00' for zero latecy). > > Is that default reordering pool size the same for Type I and Type II > messages? Type-II messages don't support latency yet (or not until fairly recently, I can't remember). Type-I remailers don't, by default, do any reordering, but reordering is not as useful for type-I messages (unless you remix). Cracker uses Mixmaster to reorder type-I messages. In addition to the pool size of 5, it also will remail a maximum of half the messages present, so in reality, the pool size floats up and down (but not lower than 5). > Perhaps someone can double-check my math on this. Assuming > equally-sized messages that are otherwise indistinguishable, and a > reordering pool size of five, then the odds of matching up an > encrypted incoming message with an encrypted outgoing message are > one in five. The odds are somewhat worse (for the attacker). In the case of the scenario above on cracker, the odds of any given message being cycled out of the pool (the pool is processed at six minute intervals) is generally 50% per cycle. Thus, there is a 75% chance that it has been sent by the end of the second cycle, and therefore a 25% (.5*.5) chance that it is still in the queue. The current RMS latency (from the remailer's own stats) is 19.5 minutes. You want to about double that to be sure that the message has really come out (and then, you still can't be sure), so that's about six cycles. If we are doing 5 per cycle, then the odds are 1 in 30. A very rough estimate. However, by my estimates, it's more like 12 messages per cycle (typically; it's variable for the reasons above), so that runs it up to 1 in 72 or so. (And of course, the remixing ensures that all messages are indistinquishable, whenever possible.) > What I'm unclear on is how setting a Latency: flag affects the > diffusion of the output. Is that lattency IN ADDITION to the pool > size of five, or does Latency: +00:00 bypass the reordering process > altogether? Latency occurs before reordering. Latency: +00:00 does nothing, BTW, and it's the default. Latency: +12:00r adds a 0-12 hour random delay before reordering. > My main concern is the security of chained reply blocks which are > more vulnerable to attack than normal anonymous messages. A single > anonymous message can only be traced BACKWARDS after it's been > received. Which is probably not so hard when you record all inter-remailer traffic, which is probably what happens somewhere. > An anonymous reply, OTOH, could, theoretically, be > "walked" through each remailer in the chain until the identity of > the recipient was discovered. While that process would require > convincing each remailer operator in the chain to cooperate, it's a > lot more feasible than tracing a message backwards to its source. > (Yes, I know about posting to a public message pool, such as a.a.m, > but NG posting seems to be rather unreliable lately.) Yep, that was part of the motivation for remixing: To keep eavesdroppers from intercepting partially-decrypted reply blocks. It also prevents traffic analysis based on the message section after the reply block. Reply blocks, of course, tend to get smaller after each hop, while the message getting delivered tends to get larger. Automatically encapsuling type-I messages in type-II format whenever the recipient supports it prevents this type of traffic analysis. Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design For a great anti-spam procmail recipe, send me mail with subject "spam". Append "+spamsucks" to my username to ensure delivery. KeyID=0xC72F3F1D Encryption is too important to leave to the government. -- Bruce Schneier http://www.athens.net/~dustman mailto:andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu <}+++< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQEPAwUBNK77/BOPBZTHLz8dAQHlRwfPY/0uPyFXIgQxGAFt+kbNT85lZ9/Bf9B6 XIoRHARSbE0np2JB7kB0PdjXIxgyFoxcn9kuTyspOgFgF80zQjFR7RYSQC8QKXDV 1dnod7X4ynrvjmHbGtfOYDfgZSKUboTrwIPuehfUw3IDnDliVjDnnDy76f4uZdLc +Jn4JGRGPqVBQ3EX2d0yxDsIXY88geeGa4xgzSMSEaXWW+AoNw19mNJRA0AehiLg DZRDHKbCKYRtqt9aOn1h3qi3VrOqUjkO8awBkSQw84ycEqVaBgczBW/nBtNIpHq5 42pHjHpCc1riYY/2vuOXXD3juou1Th4By7JaZLwt+GkbZA== =r/Dk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alan at clueserver.org Sat Jan 3 19:12:28 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:28 +0800 Subject: Microsoft In-Reply-To: <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980103190024.038b0d80@clueserver.org> At 02:25 AM 1/4/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: > >Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! Then get a copy of Linux and stop whining! Sheesh! --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From blancw at cnw.com Sat Jan 3 21:02:23 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:02:23 +0800 Subject: Time to Pay the Piper Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980103210255.006ddcf8@cnw.com> Attila T. Hun wrote: > 1) when a true market monopoly exists, society _is_ > entitled to intervene. [. . .] > 2) why should you be surprised to hear this from me? > sure, I would prefer anarchy per se, but have > absolutely no faith that the vast majority would do > anything except rape, pillage, and plunder. [. . . .] ....................................................................... Well, between the "raping, pillaging, plundering" society of people who can't do better than to follow in the path which Billg prepares for them, and the "entitled" right of these same pillaging, plundering, sheeple to intervene in a "true market monopoly" which they themselves participated in creating, if only by default (intervening so they don't become exhausted from all that decision making - Unix, or Perl? Unix, or Wintel? This is too hard!!), and the attitude of Governors of the People's Interest who live to protects us from pillaging, plundering monopolists, all the while doing a little undercover raping of their own, all I can say is, "it's a Wonderful Society". And who wouldn't want to be a member of such a society, and who wouldn't want to intervene on the behalf of its citizens, none of whom have, apparently, yet "proved their worth" on this planet? (I'm surprised there's still so many of them, considering all the "good" guys trying to help them, and considering that they've been receiving "help" for their condition from everywhere - left and right, up and down, here and there - for many, many, years, now.) wheN are PEE-ple GOing towake UP. The Truth is Out There. .. Blanc From andrew at sexswap.com Sun Jan 4 13:54:25 1998 From: andrew at sexswap.com (Andrew) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:54:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: HOW TO GET 2%-10% MORE HITS - I N S T A N T L Y ! Message-ID: <199801051125550830.05126488@sexswap.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We don't wish to send people email that hate spam... If you wish to be removed from future mailings, simply enter your email(s) in the box at http://www.removelist.com. Thanks ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HOW TO GET 2%-10% MORE HITS - I N S T A N T L Y ! SexSwap is the FASTEST and LARGEST Adult Banner Exchange. 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We are the only banner exchange to publish the weekly SexSwap News that is chock full of tips and tricks...some members say that the newsletter is worth its weight in gold. 3. HOW TO JOIN SEXSWAP IN 2-3 MINUTES /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ We are the only adult banner exchange where the owner is the tech support and responds to email within hours...not days...I WILL HOLD YOUR HAND! We can't double your hits, but we can give you a 2%-10% boost in hits without pain. http://www.sexswap.com check us out, compare us to the competition, test our speed. http://www.sexswap.com Andy From alan at clueserver.org Sat Jan 3 23:39:21 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:39:21 +0800 Subject: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801032150.QAA29689@mx02.together.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: > There may be .50-cal bolt actions out there that are one man >carries, but the Barrett gun is a three man load. The gun is 57 inches >long and weighs 32.5 pounds, unloaded with no scope. The primary >mission of the gun is not man sniping, though I am sure it often has >been and will be used in that role, but its main aim is to long range >snipe and disable antennae, dishes, equipment, etc using the AP and >API ammunition. When I lived in Alaska I knew someone who built such a thing for hunting bears. I never got to fire it, but it was supposed to have a kick like a mule. (Even with the shock absorbing stock.) The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and primer caps.) I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Sun Jan 4 00:45:35 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:45:35 +0800 Subject: Gun Nutz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Lucky Green wrote: > On 3 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: > > It would be interesting to fit one's house with speakers/noise generators/ > > flash generators/smoke/etc. to make it look as if one has an automatic > > cannon or a small army, in response to a raid. It would make a perfect > > distraction during which to leave :) > > [The following is a theoretical discusion. Do not try this at home]. > > What you really want is the ability to slow down the mobility of the raid > force while making your exit. In a prolonged siege, the attacker will > always win. A good way of slowing down the attacker after an initial > armed response is to deploy chemicals. A combination of Tabun and Mustard > Gas works best, but don't deploy them at the same time. Use the Tabun > first for maximium impact. Follow up with the Mustard Gas a few minutes > later. Setting this off in an inhabited area is sure to make you a popular hero. You'd be better off investing in a tunnel. Maybe Seymour Cray could use a job about now ... ;) (I never bought that car accident cover - he and Elvis are probably hangin' out in Tonga) -r.w. From kping at nym.alias.net Sun Jan 4 00:48:42 1998 From: kping at nym.alias.net (Kay Ping) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:48:42 +0800 Subject: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: <19980104083939.14929.qmail@nym.alias.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > The FCC may have ruled it, but its doubtful that the carriers can provide > it. Doing better than than a cell sector will depend on many factors, > including: specific technology (analog, GSM, CDMA, etc.), frequency and > local propagation characteristics, especially multipath conditions. The FCC ruling is a result of lobbying by a company that has actually built such a location device. The requirements are tailored to the capabilities of their device and they probably expect to automatically win the contracts. I don't remember their name but the devices need to be installed in about one out of 3 cellular base stations. I am only guessing now, but it's not unlikely that they have been assisted in their lobbying efforts by certain three-letter-acronym agencies. They knew that the goverment would look favorably on a device to track people and would eagerly buy their excuse of 911 caller location. - ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping at nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEQAwUBNK8o/BHPAso8Qp7tAQFGfgfRAQUYARi6dQYIWyehqBhXMhyvgfYkWN2X rDDkE/bCr4yfvuYA5e/H3kVhfEh9TXT2m4+F6NmWPmy5WM6s5yuDR3I5t/3EDH8T uHV/EfkhjiE0HiQgTLB19VGFRXoi9eLlnBaxBcZZK8dknJ/T7rFlthvpUeL3crVl yD0Swl7lYgeyuG2HLgOLc5v+ej1tDdI27KIjoBj/dCDSoN6gtzj/linCLbjY8NZZ akY3cQbk3QVrXfJamX+n6X3cwKkI20phrM5DBjh1pdhod6nLvRDPiEkT3prqRTx7 gjrJip/pzCKABUmkWSigXFgQARvkPW6ZqSCnoCSivzgYFxE= =UcO3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blancw at cnw.com Sun Jan 4 02:00:15 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:00:15 +0800 Subject: MS: "Setting the Record Straight" Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980104011838.006a2b20@cnw.com> For any of you who haven't already searched for & found this: http://www.microsoft.com/corpinfo/myths.htm .. Blanc From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 4 05:49:07 1998 From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:49:07 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980101165908.0c4f464c@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: > >No, acts of law which require employers not to discriminate against > >niggers, wops, kikes or greezers, or any other ratial group infringe > >basic rights of association, I personally have no racist prejudices, but > >recognise the freedom of others to be as bigotted as they care to be. > > Does that include the krauts, micks, limeys, frogs as well as the > canucks and pea soup eaters? The polacks, chinks and dagos? The Wogs too? Indeed it does. > Which reminds me. We never did get a good one for the Russians. Any > nominations? Reds is always a good one, and especially ignorant and offensive since the communist tyranny was replaced with a "democratic" one. Can`t think of any others offhand. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From nomdomain at 10889.com Sun Jan 4 22:42:19 1998 From: nomdomain at 10889.com (unknown) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:42:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Virtual Law Library Message-ID: This is the time of year when we all sit down to reflect on last year and set some new goals for the coming year. What kind of year was 1997 for you? What will be your goals for 1998? Why not make prosperity your goal for '98? There are many things that come under the auspices of 'prosperity' including time, money, love, success, balance, joy, comfort, beauty, good health, wisdom, etc. Are you prosperous with your time? Or, do you always feel rushed and pressured? Do you always feel there's not enough time to do the things you want to do? 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From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jan 4 07:32:35 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:32:35 +0800 Subject: Smartcard readers Message-ID: Several people inquired about obtaining one of the universal smartcard readers the Cypherpunks Smartcard Developer Association built in the past. As our knowledge about commercial readers increased, we were able to add support for commercial readers from several manufacturers such as Gemplus, Schlumberger, and Philips. Therefore, there is no need to for another production run of our own reader. If you wonder which reader to buy, I like the Gemplus best. If you have a reader we don't already support, send me a sample and we'll add it. Our smartcard software is at https://www.cypherpunks.to/scard/ Have fun, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From brianbr at together.net Sun Jan 4 07:54:43 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:54:43 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Yup Message-ID: <199801041548.KAA21685@mx02.together.net> ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/03 10:00 AM Received: 01/04 10:37 AM From: Bruce Alan Johnson, baj at sover.net To: Brian B. Riley, brianbr at together.net MISTAKEN IDENTITY: Police in Bangkok, Thailand, arrested an American tourist who climbed repair scaffolding to the top of Wat Arun (Temple of the Dawn) and refused to come down. After 10 hours, the man was subdued by police and turned over to the American Embassy. He identified himself as God, but officials determined he was Brandon Simcock, 27, an employee of Microsoft. (Bangkok Post) ..."Termination Notice. Reason for Termination: Impersonating CEO." ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Brian B. 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Cum get em !! =========================================================== TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US. =========================================================== From tcmay at got.net Sun Jan 4 10:07:01 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:07:01 +0800 Subject: My last comment (for now) on rifles Message-ID: At 11:12 PM -0800 1/3/98, Alan wrote: >When I lived in Alaska I knew someone who built such a thing for hunting >bears. I never got to fire it, but it was supposed to have a kick like a >mule. (Even with the shock absorbing stock.) > >The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms >license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for >him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. >(Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and >primer caps.) > >I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. You must be thinking of some other (larger) caliber, as .50 BMG is readily available. At my local gun shop, $3 a round. (It may be cheaper elsewhere.) A gun shop over in Silicon Valley was selling a belt-fed, semi-automatic .50 BMG for about $7K, if I recall the ad correctly. They were selling shots with it for $5 a shot, and advertising it as "Diane Feinstein's Worst Nightmare." .50 caliber is the largest readily available caliber (Uncle has limited larger calibers only for His own use, not for the use of the Rabble.) And there are several .50 BMG rifles readily for sale, mostly ranging from $3000 to $6000. The Barrett is the most commonly talked about version. Personally, I can't see the point of a .50, even for hunting bear. (Not that I would _want_ to hunt bears, as I find bears preferable to most humans, by far.) A .300 Winchester Magnum, a .375 H&H, or a .338 Lapua Magnum should be more than enough, and a whole lot cheaper than a Barrett or somesuch. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From anon at squirrel.owl.de Sun Jan 4 10:53:27 1998 From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:53:27 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Message-ID: <186eae90d0afdcd691326a13f1ad8b66@squirrel> >At 02:25 AM 1/4/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >> >>Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! > >Then get a copy of Linux and stop whining! > >Sheesh! Usually when somebody says something like that they're refering more to Microsoft indirectly borking them. For instance, people send around MS Turd documents. You have to buy MS Turd. Some Windows lamers send out HTML email. Many (most?) are clueless on USENET. Many (most?) don't like to type at all, and choke and die when they get into an environment where they have to. People walk into computer labs and are stuck with the pathetic environment that is Windows. And this doesn't even count the "Everyone is running Windows" and "Everything is da web" folks. It wouldn't be so bad if there was full source to everything and it didn't cost an arm and a leg, or if it didn't suck. But there isn't, it does, and that's putting it mildly. I can hear the cries of "You're anti-business!" and "You're just a UNIX weenie!" already. I just remember back when the average net user had somewhat of a clue. When the network went "to the masses" and people went out of their way to make it point and click the drooling lemmings were attracted to it. And of course where the drooling lemmings go the people who take advantage of the drooling lemmings follow, e.g. spammers. My attitude about this pretty much went down the toilet when I was called a "UNIX weenie" because I suggested that a Windows user deliver his own mail while the ISP's SMTP server was down. Then of course the Windows flamer decided to start denouncing the very notion of RFCs, then started rambling about POP3 and IMAP. And of course I implied "that we all run UNIX" because I used the word "daemon" -- yeah, apparently Windows is so bad that this user didn't even know it *could* run background processes. No, I wasn't the original writer, but I see where the original author was coming from...I think. Yes, I use Linux. Yes, I remember MAKE.MONEY.FAST but it was nothing like the spam we get today and was few and far between. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 4 12:16:27 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 04:16:27 +0800 Subject: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980104120940.00722cdc@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 05:40 PM 12/30/1997 -0400, Privacy Admin wrote: >Since I've switched to type-I pgponly remailer I haven't had a problem >with spammers. I've been wondering if hashcash makes sense for remailers, >or [only] for mail2news gateways. > >I guess I am looking for any means of controlling spammers using remailers >and mail2news gateways. Hashcash won't help mail2news, except by discouraging dumb spammers, because news spam only needs a few messages. PGP-only input will cut down on most spammers, though you'll still get a few, especially if they're spamming mailing lists (which makes the encryption both worth the effort and useful for safety.) If you modify your remailer to only _output_ PGP-encrypted messages, you get hashcash-equivalence, and cut abuse substantially. The cost is limiting recipients to pgp users (plus known exceptions), but it's tough to spam people when you need to look up their PGP key and encrypt to it (at least you'll only get spams for high-tech stuff), and it's tougher for random abusers to abuse people since most targets don't have PGP keys, and a mailbox full of PGP junk is less annoying to most people than a mailbox full of human-readable hate mail. In particular, it's harder to send death threats to politicians if they don't have published PGP keys. Is this a feature that makes sense? PGP-out-only remailers aren't as useful for anonymous tip lines (unless the tip line has a PGP address.) They're not as useful for inviting new people into your conspiracy, though they're fine for conspiring with people whose keys you already know (and they can be unlisted keys only used for the conspiracy.) If the Bank of Caribbean Cash Importers is interested in taking anonymous clients who contact them through remailers, they've probably got a PGP key handy to send to anyway. They're not transparently useful for mail2news, but the remailer could make exceptions for known mail2news sites, or could ignore the problem, which is fine for posting to alt.anonymous.messages, though not for posting to alt.whistleblowers. How would you implement it? Obviously you'd need to allow some unencrypted lines at the beginning, at least if they have remailer syntax( ::, ##, mail headers, etc.). Do you cut all lines after the "-----END PGP"? My first impression was yes, but after reading the Freedom Remailer source, it looks like this might kill messages using encrypted reply blocks, so maybe not. Detecting the PGP itself can be crude ("----- BEGIN PGP ENCRYPTED"...) or can be a bit fancier (make sure the lines are all the right length and limited to the correct character set), or much fancier (de-armor and look for PGP blocks). Even the fancy approaches can be spoofed, since you can't go very deep into the headers without the right keys, so a couple lines of real PGP material could be included, leaving possibilities like :: Request-Remailing-To: Your Mama ## Subject: My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Comment: PGP allows arbitrary comments, so Decrypt This! hQCMAynIuJ1VakpnAQP+MWng0I6TnDf/U83KCttjYZQSnPQjS59rw+M+iSmTGLIs btqW5hn1HXheSb8GNifAWz2rqgdH3GqjZ5rRBDF5tZfQfV5kNNYE1XpT/CMgAsDh 3IkaeOumDKXON+8acl5X7NToSjml+mkxkF7kE9u5oxCEXErDjS3k2wOtv0krNfSk HeyChelseaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MyGuitarWantsToKillYourMamaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MyGuitarWantsToKillYourMamaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MyGuitarWantsToKillYourMamaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -----END PGP MESSAGE----- and your little dog, too! But at least it's a start. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jan 4 12:35:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 04:35:45 +0800 Subject: BOOK: Forthcoming - J Gray, _Hayek on Liberty 3rd edition_ Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:34:30 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Gregransom Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: BOOK: Forthcoming - J Gray, _Hayek on Liberty 3rd edition_ To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Hayek Web << Routledge -- Hayek's publisher in England and on the Continent of Europe, on the Web at: http://www.routledge.com/ >From the Routledge Web site: "_Hayek on Liberty Third Edition_ John Gray, Jesus College, University of Oxford Published by Routledge Pb ISBN/ISSN: 0-415-17315-9 >From the previous edition: ... "In Hayek on Liberty John Gray treats Hayek primarily as a philosopher. His book is analytical, not hagiographical, and almost certainly the best book on the subject.' - Samuel Brittan, Financial Times 'The most generally accessible book on Hayek so far.' - Anthony Quinton, Times Higher Education Supplement ... Hayek's achievements in social and political philosophy are increasingly receiving full recognition. _Hayek on Liberty 3rd Edition_ is a concise yet exhaustive and provoking study of this classic liberal philosopher which examines the structure and impact of his system of ideas and locates his position within Western philosophy. Not available since the 1980s this up-dated 3rd edition contains a postscript which assesses how far the historical developments of the last ten years can be deployed in a critique of Hayek's thought. This book will contribute to a much needed wider debate on the future of conservatism. 192 pages Dimensions: 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 inches; 216 x 138 mm Status: Coming Soon" Hayek on the Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From root at ssz.com Sun Jan 4 15:31:38 1998 From: root at ssz.com (root) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:31:38 +0800 Subject: index.html Message-ID: <199801042353.RAA20982@einstein.ssz.com> Welcome to the Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer. This mailing list is sponsored by The Armadillo Group and other indipendant operators. The purpose of this mailing list is to explore the frontier of cryptography, civil liberty, economics, and related issues. This is a very high traffic mailing list. Several members of the mailing list are involved in various types of events through the year. Participation by members of the list does not construe any support or affilliation with the mailing list. Contact the author of all works obtained through the remailer network. They retain original rights. Please let others know about this mailing list, the more the merrier! To subscribe to the CDR you should contact the individual operators as conditions at each remailer site may be quite different. To subscribe through SSZ you should send a note to list at ssz.com or send an email to majordomo at ssz.com with 'subscribe cypherpunks email_address' in the body. If you have questions or problems contact list at ssz.com There may be local groups of members who have regular (or not) meetings in order to discuss the various issues and projects appropriate to their individual membership. These groups generaly announce their meetings via the CDR. Please feel free to make appropriate announcements of activity in your area. Austin Cypherpunks From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Jan 4 15:51:47 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:51:47 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <199801042341.PAA26750@netcom5.netcom.com> I posted this to PM's mailing list, but he apparently zapped it without comment. so here it goes to a less authoritarian forum. context: posters to his list were remarking on the recent declassification of information in Britain that suggested they had discovered the key aspects of RSA before it was discovered in the open literature by Diffie & Hellman etc. ------- Forwarded Message To: cryptography at c2.net Subject: a rant on the morality of confidentiality scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that is at odds with science itself, which only advances through the open literature. furthermore, they are giving away their power, so to speak, to governments that do not have the same motives they do. essentially they are working for a war machine, or a suppression machine. how can they be sure their inventions will not be used for dark purposes? imho, by not working within a system that poses that risk. that no such system seems to exist is irrelevant. a truly responsible scientist would help create one and wouldn't work without one. I think the scientists who worked on the atom bomb and today within the NSA are working under a key false assumption. "if we don't develop it, the enemy will, and he will use it against us". but perhaps if scientists around the world united against the government warmongers that have been manipulating them for many generations, particularly within the 20th century with grotesque results, perhaps a different story would emerge. yet even Einstein himself urged our government to "develop a weapon of mass destruction before the Joneses do". how smart is that? perhaps scientifically clever, but morally, socially, and spiritually vacuous. it is a feeble mind in my opinion who takes refuge in the saying that "technology is neutral". perhaps so, but not the humans who use and *develop* it, and the latter are particularly responsible for the former. how smart were those nuclear weapons scientists, anyway, such as Feynmann? imho they agreed to the terms of their own manipulation, and failed to question their basic motives and intents and of those who paid them. I believe those that work within the NSA and other secret agencies are betraying the principles of science under the guise of protecting humanity. I believe they have the power to change this system, but they have reneged on their responsibility as human beings. Wayner covers the simplistic issues in his piece for the NYT, but they key issues at stake are far deeper and have never even been recognized by some of the so-called greatest minds of our century. so I view with distaste, to say the lest, the scientists who later try to break the secrecy and come out in the open merely so that they can have credit for something that was classified they claim to deserve. they deserve credit only for supporting and participating in a vast and sinister system of scientific manipulation for dark and inhumanitarian purposes. Chomsky is one of the few scientists of our time who has the brilliance to recognize the ulterior side of the government we support. surprise! he is largely ignored or even blacklisted by his morally- and socially- handicapped colleages who believe it is not their place to question the status quo, but only to fit into it or advance through it. all those scientists who have ever complained about the lack of funding for your branch, or who have fought with each other over the scraps handed to you like dogs-- do you have any concept of how much tax money is put into military research? how much is funnelled into the NSA? this is money that is funded by the public for public welfare-- is it really being used for that? NSA and other secret agencies have become vast parasites feeding on public dollars that have no accountability, and largely because scientists, who should lead the pack, instead lack the intelligence to recognize it or the courage to challenge it. these are my thoughts as I read how the NSA's Inman pops up to say that the credit for RSA is the NSA's, or a British agency does the same. secrecy is directly contradictory to the principles upon which this country is founded. and imho it is becoming a large source of its ongoing demise. quite simply, the scientists are fiddling while Democracy burns. ------- End of Forwarded Message From tcmay at got.net Sun Jan 4 18:36:34 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:36:34 +0800 Subject: Why some people are making nerve gases and such to defendthemselves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:19 PM -0800 1/3/98, Lucky Green wrote: >What you really want is the ability to slow down the mobility of the raid >force while making your exit. In a prolonged siege, the attacker will >always win. A good way of slowing down the attacker after an initial >armed response is to deploy chemicals. A combination of Tabun and Mustard >Gas works best, but don't deploy them at the same time. Use the Tabun >first for maximium impact. Follow up with the Mustard Gas a few minutes >later. The underground irrigation systems common on California properties >are ideal means of gas deployment. You should be able to retrofit the >system for under $500. Assuming you already have the gas. Of course you >need to make sure to keep a chem suit at home. In an age where it is accepted (and unpunished) behavior for the black-clad ninja warriors to shoot through pregnant women, to burn children to death in the name of publicity for the BATF, to raid the home of a woman who refused to answer questions of the State psychiatric police, to shoot to death a retired doctor who the raiders accidentally hit, and on and on, other measures are needed. (In none of these cases have the guilty parties been punished. If the State will not restrain itself, other measures will be needed.) This may well be why militias and survivalist groups are so actively developing chemical and biological agents. (I hear that even some of the dopers in the hills have gotten interested in Sarin release systems. Hoo boy!) Sad, but maybe one has to fight fire with fire. If a hundred SWAT stormtroopers surround a compound and prepare to burn it down, releasing the countermeasures may be needed. In fact, leaking (no pun intended) word that a home has CBW deadman switches may make the ninjas a bit less trigger-happy. --Tim May, whose house is _not_ booby-trapped with Sarin, or Tabun, or anything else, but who will defend to his death his right to talk as he wishes about such things. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Jan 4 19:34:51 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:34:51 +0800 Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> Message-ID: <199801050324.VAA21481@manifold.algebra.com> Alan wrote: > At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: > The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms > license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for > him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. > (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and > primer caps.) > > I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun stores. - Igor. From tcmay at got.net Sun Jan 4 19:57:24 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:57:24 +0800 Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> Message-ID: At 7:24 PM -0800 1/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Alan wrote: >> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: >> The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms >> license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for >> him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. >> (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and >> primer caps.) >> >> I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. > >I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun stores. Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) Importation of steel-core ammo is under various restrictions. Klinton recently blocked import of a lot of foreign 7.62x39 steel core ammo, on nebulous grounds that they represented a threat to the ruling elite and their police bodyguards. But it's still widely available. Check the gun shows. (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Sun Jan 4 20:00:58 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:00:58 +0800 Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] Message-ID: <199801050344.TAA10130@sirius.infonex.com> What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) body armor for cypherpunks? From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jan 4 20:03:34 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:03:34 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Message-ID: <19980105040003.18797.qmail@nym.alias.net> >At 02:25 98/01/04 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >> Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! >> >> >> > >For relief, see: http://www.enemy.org/ Uh, how does one read this in Lynx? The first page instructs you to choose your nearest location. The "Mirror Sites" page is an image map. Chosing this "image map" will pop up a series of selections like "(318,85)" and chosing one of these dies with a 404. There are four options below that: "Russia," "France," "Brasil," and "Japan." Chosing one of these brings you to a bunch of frames which aren't even named sanely. Frame "ob_li" has nothing in it. Frame "links" has nothing in it. Frame "un_li" has nothing in it. Frame "oben" has nothing in it. Is anyone beginning to see a pattern? Nearest I can tell, the people running enemy.org are just as clueless as the people programming at Microsoft. It's possible that they're even more clueless. If they want to attack Microsoft, they need to learn how to make a web page first. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Jan 4 20:40:51 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:40:51 +0800 Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801050436.WAA21960@manifold.algebra.com> Tim May wrote: > Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is > readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common > kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And > even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are > "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. > (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely > to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core > rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) Many people underestimate the power of most rifles. - Igor. From joabj at charm.net Sun Jan 4 20:42:05 1998 From: joabj at charm.net (Joab Jackson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:42:05 +0800 Subject: Baltimore City Paper editorial on Jim Bell Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980103232529.007b81f0@mailhost.charm.net> A Bridge Too Far? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No doubt about it, Jim Bell disliked the government. As far as this Vancouver, Wash., resident was concerned, there isn't any problem with Congress that $60 worth of bullets couldn't solve. And he let his opinion be known in newsgroups, mailing lists, and, perhaps most notoriously, through an essay he wrote and promoted on the Internet called "Assassination Politics". But did Bell-who, federal authorities discovered, had an arsenal of deadly chemicals and firearms and the home addresses of more than 100 government workers-have a plan to murder public employees? "What was interesting is that the whole case was based on whether he'd be harmful in the future. He hadn't actually hurt anyone, but he was talking about some scary stuff," John Branton, a reporter who covered the Bell case for the southern Washington newspaper The Columbian (The Jim Bell Story), told me by phone. On Dec. 12, Bell, 39, was sentenced to 11 months in prison and three years of supervised probation after pleading guilty to using false Social Security numbers and setting a stink bomb off at a local Internal Revenue Service office. But authorities acknowledge those charges weren't what his arrest was really about. "We chose not to wait until he followed through on what we believe were plans to assassinate government employees," Jeffrey Gordon, an IRS inspector, told the Portland, Ore., daily The Oregonian. Gordon likened Bell to convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and Unabomber suspect Theodore Kaczynski. The federal government's court filing against Bell stated the belief that the defendant had a plan to "overthrow the U.S. government." Proof of his motivation, the government asserted, was found in Bell's Internet writings: "Bell has spelled out parts of his overall plan in his 'Assassination Politics' essay." Bell wasn't lacking for firepower. On April 1, 20 armed federal agents raided Bell's home, where he lived with his parents. According to U.S. News & World Report ("Terrorism's Next Wave") the feds found three semiautomatic assault rifles; a handgun; a copy of the book The Terrorist's Handbook; the home addresses of more than 100 government workers; and a garage full of potentially deadly chemicals. Authorities had long known that Bell was a spokesperson for a local libertarian militia and was involved in a so-called "common-law court" that planned "trials" of IRS employees. Given what the feds found at the house, in retrospect the raid seems prudent-as Leroy Loiselle of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency told U.S. News, "You don't need nitric acid to keep aphids off your flowers." It's easy to forget the troubling fact that the government's initial reason for raiding Bell's residence was "Assassination Politics," which they found in Bell's car when the IRS seized it back in February. (Bell owed some $30,000 in back taxes.) Will others who make public their wrath for government and owe some taxes to Uncle Sam be paid similar visits? What's perhaps more troubling still is the way the feds held up Bell's essay as evidence of his violent intent. Reading "Assassination Politics" makes clear that it is no more a workable blueprint for overthrowing the government than Frank Herbert's Dune is a realistic plan for urban renewal. For about two years prior to Bell's arrest, "Assassination Politics" floated around the Internet. Bell, for instance, sent this essay out on the cypherpunks mailing list, where scenarios for the future, based on new technology and libertarian principles, are frequently discussed. None of the cypherpunks took his "plan" seriously then. The core of "Assassination Politics" is a plan to establish an anonymous electronic market wherein people could "wager" money on when public individuals, be they world leaders or corrupt tax collectors, will die. A person (say, for instance, an assassin) who correctly "predicts" the day of a death could anonymously collect the "winnings." Far from being a direct call to arms, Bell's essay is largely hypothetical, at least until encryption, traceless digital cash, and mass homicidal hatred of world leaders becomes widespread. Ugly yes; realistic no. "I've told Jim Bell on any number of occasions that it would never work," Robert East, a friend of Bell's, tells me by e-mail. "If Jim had properly titled this as a fictional piece of literature he'd have been far more accurate." In April, when the Jim Bell story broke, both The Columbian and Time Warner's Netly News portrayed Bell as a victim whose free-speech rights were violated. But as evidence against Bell piled up, the sympathy muted considerably. U.S. News' recent cover story on domestic terrorism, "Terrorism's Next Wave," opened with the Bell case. Perhaps Bell was prosecuted for what he wrote rather than what he might do. (Both friends and family have repeatedly said Bell, though a big talker, isn't much of a doer. "Jim is a harmless academic [n]erd," East insists. "I've known him for years and he's harmless.") Perhaps the IRS was spooked by little more than idle speculation of its demise. But the evidence seems to have dealt the feds the better hand, and lends credence to the idea that, for all the protest of free-speech advocates, words are not always separable from actions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- The Baltimore City Paper: http://www.citypaper.com City Paper's Cyberpunk column: http://www.citypaper.com/columns/framecyb.htm Archives: http://www.charm.net/~joabj/ joabj at charm.net 410.356.6274 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 5.0 mQBtAzJFsfEAAAEDAOtSe/7TU8y0ZYBFXp8c6hxwzDIdbIsDtTsvKx2X v5S65Mdc3vCEFhMuwxceatO4T5IKgBFWJ2r7s9fFKtsAIS4vKCESi+wY7j 5rEZ6oYbaeWlj1yfwjAjg8SUxCjuji1QAFEbQeSm9hYiBKYWNrc29uIDxqb2 FiakBjaGFybS5uZXQ+ =ttEP -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 4 20:52:47 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:52:47 +0800 Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801050513.XAA22310@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:44:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Mix > Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] > What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) > body armor for cypherpunks? Not being in the vicinity of the fan... (I couldn't resist) ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 4 22:54:50 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:54:50 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <199801042341.PAA26750@netcom5.netcom.com> Message-ID: <9RcTie5w165w@bwalk.dm.com> "Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes: > I posted this to PM's mailing list, but he apparently zapped it > without comment. I'm shocked. I thought the purpose of the perry-moderated list was to let him reject submissions AND send perrygrams, not just silenty drop them on the floor! During the Gilmore/C2net "moderation experiment", Sandy Sandfart not only silently deleted the submissions he didn't like (he lied when he claimed that everything he rejects is forwarded to the rejects list), he also had C2Net lawyers threatening several people whose articles were rejected, including myself and Timmy May. Perry can learn a lot from Sandy Sandfart. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From alan at clueserver.org Sun Jan 4 23:13:25 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:13:25 +0800 Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980104222937.03ab0100@clueserver.org> At 09:24 PM 1/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Alan wrote: >> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: >> The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms >> license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for >> him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. >> (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and >> primer caps.) >> >> I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. > >I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun stores. I am surprised, but I am sure you are correct. It has been quite a while since I have spent time in gun shops. (My expenditures on ammo is limited to smaller calibers. I tend not to look at other things because I cannot afford what I want.) --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From bd1011 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 4 23:18:48 1998 From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:18:48 +0800 Subject: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Message-ID: <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it isn't safe? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From alan at clueserver.org Sun Jan 4 23:33:09 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:33:09 +0800 Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980104232928.0366bdc0@clueserver.org> At 10:36 PM 1/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know >what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. They are a wooden round made by the dutch for firing into milling machines. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From tcmay at got.net Sun Jan 4 23:42:28 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:42:28 +0800 Subject: Sabots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 8:36 PM -0800 1/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Tim May wrote: >> Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is >> readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common >> kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And >> even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are >> "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) > >By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know >what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. Typically a dense projectile inside an outer projectile. (Sabot in French means "shoe," the origin of course of "saboteur.") The outer projectile can fall away, leaving the inner projectile to continue. The physics of this is explained in ballistics sources. This allows smaller projectiles to be launched out of larger bores. Thus, high density projectiles can be launched out of .50 BMG barrels. Or large tank barrels (as in the M-1 Abrams tank) can fire sabot projectiles. (For example, smaller projectiles made of depleted uranium, which punch through tank armor and then become liquid and incendiary on the inside of the tank, killing all occupants in milliseconds.) The term "sabot" is sometimes used interchangeably with "slug," espeically with respect to shotguns. It is also possible to use sabots to build a "two-stage" bullet, with a smaller round firing from inside a sabot. 6000 fps velocities have been reported. Or so I read. As always, using the Web is the way to get such answers quickly. A DejaNews search on "rec.guns sabot" will turn up many interesting threads. Especially the older data base. >> (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely >> to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core >> rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) > >Many people underestimate the power of most rifles. Yep. Every rifle caliber other than .22 LR will penetrate ballistic vests. Even with a vest rated to stop a .44 Magnum round, from a handgun, the extra speed from a 16-inch carbine barrel is enough to defeat these vests. (I have a handy little carbine, the Winchester Trapper, in .44 Magnum. Not as much punch as an AR-15, but mighty handy.) More and more "home invaders" (*) are wearing Kevlar body armor, so bear this in mind. (* Home invaders are usually gangs of several thieves who enter a home in force, sometimes by kidnapping the owner and forcing him to let them in, sometimes just by breaking down the doors. They tend to terrorize the occupants, tie them up, rape the women, and then, increasingly, kill all the occupants so as to leave no witnesses. And for "kicks." Of course, liberals and gun grabbers would have us believe that it is not proper for homeowners to have guns to defend themselves, that it is for the police to respond to burglaries. People who think this way are delusional. And if they go beyond their delusions and attempt to disarm homeowners forcibly, they ought to be taken out and shot.) --Tim May --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From alan at clueserver.org Sun Jan 4 23:47:57 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:47:57 +0800 Subject: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? In-Reply-To: <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980104232746.00b28760@clueserver.org> At 11:00 PM 1/4/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it >isn't safe? >From what I have read, FEAL is the punching bag of the cryptographic community. It has been broken many times by many people at many different number of rounds. (It seems to be the one that many cryptanalists have cut their teeth on.) The history of FEAL does not inspire a whole lot of confidence, no matter who is selling it. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From tcmay at got.net Sun Jan 4 23:51:22 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:51:22 +0800 Subject: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? In-Reply-To: <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: At 11:00 PM -0800 1/4/98, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: >Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it >isn't safe? > FEAL am not safe if not safe here. (Try using a search engine or Schneier, Nobuki Nakatuji, to answer these stupid little Zen koans you keep hitting us with.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From dritter at bbnplanet.com Mon Jan 5 05:00:00 1998 From: dritter at bbnplanet.com (Dan Ritter) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:00:00 +0800 Subject: Mobile Account Manager In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971216090335.00759eec@pobox3.bbn.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980105075118.0072eec0@pobox3.bbn.com> At 03:33 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote: >Mobile Account Manager v1.1 now encrypts the data to the PalmPilot >database. For more information, check out our site at >http://www.mobilegeneration.com or you can download the trial version at >http://www.mobilegeneration.com/downloads/acctmgr.zip. Let me know if >there is anything else we can do! > >Cassidy Lackey >Mobile Generation Software >www.mobilegeneration.com > >Dan Ritter wrote: > >> What sort of encryption is used to protect private information in >> Mobile >> Account Manager? >From http://www.mobilegeneration.com : >After reviewing the costs and benefits associated with each of the published > encryption algorithms (DES, RC4, RC5, IDEA, etc...) we have decided to utilize a > proprietary Mobile Generation Software data encryption algorithm. Most This does not answer my original question, which is: what encryption method are you using? All it says is which encryption methods you are *not* using. > importantly, data encryption must ensure that no user can view the data in the > PalmPilot MAM database or the backup MAM database on the PC. We feel that it > is highly unlikely that anyone will attempt to �break� the encryption and therefore the If I felt that it was highly unlikely, I'd hardly be asking, would I? Poor cryptography is worse than none - it encourages people to believe their data is safe when it is not. Good cryptography can stand up to having its algorithms made public. Can yours? > costs incurred by utilizing the published encryption algorithms would outweigh the > benefits. Therefore, we are confident that the MAM encryption algorithm provides > sufficient data security for the Mobile Account Manager database. Without providing more information, customers can not make that decision for themselves. > > Below are the costs associated with utilizing many of the published algorithms for > MAM: > > U.S. Laws governing encryption software may not allow for exportation of > MAM outside of the U.S. Then you should be active in political groups advocating change of those laws. In fact, if you really believe in encryption, you might want to offer this as a test case - even a reporter can see how silly it is not to be able to protect your ATM PIN. > Copyrights and royalties associated with many of the encryption algorithms > may increase the cost of MAM. Many strong encryption algorithms are free. > Complex encryption algorithms drastically increase the size of the application > and slow the response time of MAM. Many algorithms can be tuned for different levels of complexity. > If you feel uncomfortable placing your sensitive data in the PalmPilot, please let us > know and we will give you some other ideas to ensure that your data is secure. I am doing so. I am also copying this to the cypherpunks mailing list, as other people ought to be made aware of this issue. Nothing I have quoted seems to be nonpublic information. -dsr- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 5 07:06:27 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:06:27 +0800 Subject: Japanese bank rifled by cyber-thieves [CNN] Message-ID: <199801051522.JAA23261@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Cyber-thieves target Sakura > > Data stolen from bank's computers leaked to Tokyo mailing-list vendor > > January 5, 1998: 8:10 a.m. ET > > Sakura seeks restructuring - Dec. 30, 1997 > > > [IMAGE] > > Sakura Bank > More related sites... TOKYO (Reuters) - Cyber-criminals rifled > confidential computer records of a major Japanese bank and stole > information on customers' names, telephone numbers, addresses and even > birthdays, the bank said Monday. > [INLINE] Sakura Bank Ltd. said data on up to 20,000 of its 15 million > individual customers could have been stolen and that it had confirmed > that files on at least 37 then were leaked to a mailing-list vendor in > Tokyo. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU Mon Jan 5 07:06:50 1998 From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:06:50 +0800 Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801051450.GAA13185@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera at juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config at nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config at anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster at remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias at alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer at replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid at juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer at bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer at anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer at cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer at neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez at juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman at cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From lists at castle5.castlec.com Mon Jan 5 08:05:09 1998 From: lists at castle5.castlec.com (Jrbl Pookah) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:05:09 +0800 Subject: Encrypted Telephony Products Message-ID: I've recently begun looking for internet telephony products that employ reasonably secure encryption on-the-fly. Now, I've found Nautilus, and PGPFone, but neither product appears to have been updated for quite a while now. I was just wondering if anybody could give me recommendations for more up-to-date products, and perhaps comparisons between those available. Thank you. From andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu Mon Jan 5 08:15:12 1998 From: andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu (Andy Dustman) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:15:12 +0800 Subject: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980104120940.00722cdc@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Bill Stewart wrote: > If you modify your remailer to only _output_ PGP-encrypted messages, > you get hashcash-equivalence, and cut abuse substantially. > The cost is limiting recipients to pgp users (plus known exceptions), > but it's tough to spam people when you need to look up their PGP key > and encrypt to it (at least you'll only get spams for high-tech stuff), > and it's tougher for random abusers to abuse people since most targets > don't have PGP keys, and a mailbox full of PGP junk is less annoying > to most people than a mailbox full of human-readable hate mail. > In particular, it's harder to send death threats to politicians > if they don't have published PGP keys. > > Is this a feature that makes sense? It makes some sense. It's similar to what I proposed a few weeks ago with "casual" remailers. The smart middleman portion of coerce does something similar: If it looks like a PGP message (has the "BEGIN PGP MESSAGE" line), it doesn't chain through a random remailer but delivers directly. I'm not sure if anyone is actually using this, though (perhaps tea/mccain). What you seem to be proposing is sending non-encrypted messages to /dev/null. That may yet be an option if things get bad, but I don't think they are that bad yet. It does seem to achieve, in part, the goals of hashcash (although it generally takes longer to generate hashcash, depending on the collision length required). > How would you implement it? You are correct that there are easy ways to spoof PGP messages well enough to fool a simple parser. One way around this would be to pipe any apparent PGP messages (start and end easily detected) through PGP to de-armor only. A couple problems: PGP (2.6.x) doesn't seem to have an option to only de-armor; a sophisticated spoofer could make the armor verify correctly anyway by generating the correct CRC (trivial if you know what you're doing). So it seems sensible to only consider some simple safeguards and not worry about actually decoding the armor. Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design For a great anti-spam procmail recipe, send me mail with subject "spam". Append "+spamsucks" to my username to ensure delivery. KeyID=0xC72F3F1D Encryption is too important to leave to the government. -- Bruce Schneier http://www.athens.net/~dustman mailto:andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu <}+++< From ericm at lne.com Mon Jan 5 08:33:44 1998 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:33:44 +0800 Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <199801050436.WAA21960@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801051627.IAA20090@slack.lne.com> Igor Chudov @ home writes: > > Tim May wrote: > > Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is > > readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common > > kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And > > even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are > > "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) > > By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know > what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. A Sabot is a casing which goes around a bullet, allowing say a .22 caliber bullet to travel properly down a .30 caliber barrel. They're usually made of plastic and designed to fall away from the bullet soon after it leaves the barrel. It's a hack to get high(er) velocity out of an existing gun, or to expand the range of available projectiles for a weapon. I used to see Sabot rounds that were .22 caliber bullets with a .30 caliber Sabot, in a .30-06 casing. I think Remington made them and they were available to the general public. They were marketed for 'varmint' hunting, as an alternative to buying a .25-06 or similar varmint rifle. > > (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely > > to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core > > rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) > > Many people underestimate the power of most rifles. Yes, and many people want to be able to buy a quick technological fix to something (like shooting) which requires talent and/or practice to become good at. Just like buying a synthesizer doesn't instantly make one a musician, buying a wonder gun doesn't immediately make one a crack shot. Not that I'm accusing anyone in this discussion of having this tendency, just pointing out that the best gun in many situations is the one that you have run the most rounds through. -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Mon Jan 5 08:42:51 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:42:51 +0800 Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15C9@exna01.securitydynamics.com> > ---------- > From: Mix[SMTP:mixmaster at remail.obscura.com] > Reply To: Mix > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 1998 10:44 PM > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] > > What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) > body armor for cypherpunks? > After a few years on this list, one develops such a thick skin that extra protection is superfluos Peter Trei ptrei at securitydynamics.com From guy at panix.com Mon Jan 5 08:53:42 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:53:42 +0800 Subject: Internet Watch Foundation reports child nudity as illegal!! Message-ID: <199801051639.LAA26491@panix2.panix.com> > From jrg at blodwen.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 5 05:57:11 1998 > > Information Security writes: > > Can anyone not biased like Paul "British Twit of the Month" Allen > > confirm the two jpg's now visible at > > are in Demon's alt.binaries.pictures.nudism Usenet group? > > too late to check/ a right pain to check anyway bearing in mind how > much is probably available in that group. > > Give some message-ids and it's very easy to check if they are and grab > the headers of the messages from them (if you're really interested in > how they got here, etc.) My interest has blown over. PICSRules is a political response to government pressure. IWF immediately began watching for KiddiePorn and notifying IWF member organizations (and police) about such posts. Members are given the MD5 of the post to automatically delete it when next seen, in addition to the first deletion. The only thing "watch" organizations are good for is spotting "controversial" material. Demon/IWF's Clive Feather: : Some subscribers to IWF have asked to be notified of certain other : classes of material, since they *do* choose to censor and not carry : more than just material that is illegal to possess. Demon is not one : of these ISPs. So, IWF supports labeling/spotting of controversial material for the purposes of censorship, beyond what is illegal. Thus, the IWF is not going to get anywhere with PICSRules. No way in hell can they label all of the Net. Usenet content is produced at a furious rate: it cannot be rated until it has already expired off of most servers. Rate WWW? Most are business: who cares about advertising/support? Any page with a counter on it won't verify the MD5 taken when it was "rated"... PICSRules is a political prank on the politicians. Kind of like The Jetsons was an educational show about the future. What *is* happening are groups forming to censor material; funded by governments... # http://192.215.107.71/wire/news/june/0630ratings.html # # The Internet Watch Foundation, has already submitted a funding # request to the European Commission. # # "Whatever happens, we will carry on trying to get the funding # we need," Kerr said. "These things cost money, and we have not # got all the money we need", said David Kerr, chief executive # of the British-based Internet Watch Foundation This will probably keep expanding; Germany IWF to zap Nazi logos, Israel IWF to zap revisionist history, Muslim IWF to zap heresy, etc. ---guy The never-ending joke: Dimitry "I suck my male students" Vulis From jim.burnes at ssds.com Mon Jan 5 09:11:41 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:41 +0800 Subject: Encrypted Telephony Products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Jrbl Pookah wrote: > > > I've recently begun looking for internet telephony products that > employ reasonably secure encryption on-the-fly. Now, I've found Nautilus, > and PGPFone, but neither product appears to have been updated for quite a > while now. I was just wondering if anybody could give me recommendations > for more up-to-date products, and perhaps comparisons between those > available. > > Thank you. > Try Speak Freely. Sincercely, J. Burnes From frant at mclafmall.com Tue Jan 6 01:18:00 1998 From: frant at mclafmall.com (frant at mclafmall.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:18:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Healthy Life Message-ID: <199801060919.DAA20222@mail.family-net.net> For years people have been trying to find the perfect health supplement now we�ve found it. Introducing Ericson�s Alka-Mine Coral Calcium from Okinawa. 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BOX 66753 FALMOUTH, ME 04105 From workadmn at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 6 02:47:15 1998 From: workadmn at ix.netcom.com (workadmn at ix.netcom.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:47:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Just Released! 16 Million! Message-ID: <14942598_90204097> IT WAS JUST RELEASED!! INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1 We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file. We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc. This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for those that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc. We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc. Also eliminated all .edu, .mil, .org, .gov, etc. After that list was run against the remaining list, it reduced it down to near 16 million addresses! So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all others that are out there on CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and alot less time!! We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD. We received it just prior to finishing production work on the new CD. We had our people take a random sample of 300,000 addresses from the touted 2.9 that they advertised. We used a program that allows us to take a random sample of addresses from any list. We were able to have the program take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email addresses from top to bottom. We did not clean these, but we did create 3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000 addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be. We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate files for ease of extracting and adding to your own database of removes. "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST. Your choice. _____________________________ What others are saying: "I received the CD on Friday evening. Like a kid with a new toy, I immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses. Over the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I received less than TWENTY undeliverables!! 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(outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) DATE_____________________________________________________ NAME____________________________________________________ COMPANY NAME___________________________________________ ADDRESS_________________________________________________ CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________ PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________ FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________ TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: ______VISA _____MASTERCARD CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________ NAME ON CARD___________________________________________ AMOUNT $____________________ (Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________ DATE:x__________________ You may fax your order to us at: 1-908-245-3119 CHECK BY FAX SERVICES! 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Box 616 Kenilworth, NJ 07033 From declan at well.com Mon Jan 5 11:15:07 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:15:07 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <199801030048.SAA02365@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: At 17:17 -0800 1/2/98, Tim May wrote: >Wanna bet that if I was on the hill in Aspen horsing around playing ski >football and behaving like a drunken lout with a bunch of other people the >ski patrol would whistle us down and tell us to knock it off? We have a good story in this week's Time that talks about how the ski resort had repeatedly asked the Kennedys to knock it off. Including the night before the accident. Even on the "fateful" afternoon, the ski patrol had told the Kennedys -- the last on the slopes -- it was time to quit. "Nevertheless, 36 members of the Kennedy party prepared to play." -Declan From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 5 11:39:22 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:39:22 +0800 Subject: Lock and Load (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199712230422.WAA22160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980105111943.006ce590@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 10:37 PM 12/22/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >You can't lock and load an AK. I remember that very well even though it >has been a while. The bolt just would not go far enough back to pick up >the cartridge. The bolt carrier's charging handle would only go as far >as to allow for the weapon inspection. I own a Norinco MAK-90 (a semi-auto only AK variant) and it is designed so that a round cannot be chambered with the safety on. If the weapon is not cocked, the hammer hits the top of the sear (which is locked by the safety) and prevents the bolt from traveling more than 1 inch to the rear. If the weapon is cocked, the charging handle on the side of the bolt hits the front of the safety lever, which stops the rearward travel of the bolt at about 2.5 inches, which is not sufficient to chamber a round. The magazine can be inserted or removed regardless of the position of the safety or the bolt. On my Winchester 1300 Defender 12-gauge, (a pump gun with a 7-round magazine) the safety cannot be engaged until the weapon has been cocked, which requires the action to be cycled. This will chamber a round unless the magazine is empty. On my Norinco Model 320 carbine (a semi-auto only Uzi lookalike) if the weapon is not cocked, and the grip safety is not depressed, the bolt is locked in the forward position, which makes it rather difficult to chamber a round. However, the safe/fire selector (the sliding button on the left side of the grip) has no effect on the bolt. Neither safety has any effect on inserting or removing a magazine. ObOddGunTrivia: One of the oddities of the SKS is that a magazine cannot be inserted or removed unless the bolt is locked in the rearmost position. The sides of the bolt have grooves machined in them that the lips of the magazine occupy when the bolt is forward. This can make changing a half-full magazine kind of annoying. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNLEyTMJF0kXqpw3MEQIp+QCg1btR4CI1QthIVV2AYTTi7ztS6r0AoNlB LkkRQf7554PRxVe/Q+IsPqLs =SAYC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. 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PARTNER SITE Persian Kitty's Adult Links http://www.persiankitty.com/pk.html The #1 most visted adult links site on the Web. Persian Kitty's is now in it's 3rd year! Updated twice each day. Plus the Purrfect Pose and the Desktop Image of the Week! =========================================================== TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US. =========================================================== From brianbr at together.net Mon Jan 5 13:55:52 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:55:52 +0800 Subject: Netiquette: (was) Re: .50 ammo Message-ID: <199801052140.QAA24055@mx01.together.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/5/98 1:29 AM, Alan Olsen (alan at clueserver.org) passed this wisdom: >At 09:24 PM 1/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >>Alan wrote: >>> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: >>> The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal >>> firearms license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too >>> difficult for him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be >>> doubly difficult. (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as >>> you could get molds and primer caps.) >>> >>> I guess it depends on your military and/or black market >>> connections. >> >>I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun >> stores. > >I am surprised, but I am sure you are correct. It has been quite a >whilesince I have spent time in gun shops. (My expenditures on ammo >is limited to smaller calibers. I tend not to look at other things >because I cannot afford what I >want.) small point here of netiquette. one should be careful when trimming down quotes out of context ... I did not make the above statement. This time it is of little matter as the statement wasn't very inflammatory nor was it very controversial (not that CP is *ever* inflammatory or controversial), but it may well have been. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLFTOz7r4fUXwraZAQHDDQf/XBk9i+6+GA7UcZD/a1CY3F/102Kh5u/L Y0KfqoMGCqv23oeJbayxjbWtXKSDd5+wX8Owrmr0i4arsD7vsunECkiQeUf0oQ83 Nid/tffRD5smu6P7mrf4yRVWOKKMmY8/VLOpFi9mRrOGVAWpGildXDikIhDuFylW RHjRnSugM88RUqz1Z7rLuIirMpYm//UVT0YRM9EXUyH/ejmOgH5YB8vP5isPBa4T L2TjPKbirQU1BX5HdgrVB+WkOpHdfSvA6sFlMPdAG4VvRltXA1IXZv1ce1AlKgtW OTnzvFoVrnMieJ0cKxe/dXSbFpedb9BBmCcCo+GWuf/Z2M/NWMwSnA== =SO5L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?" Dick Cavett From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jan 5 14:19:58 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:19:58 +0800 Subject: Anonymous Remailers Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:14:19 -0800 From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Anonymous Remailers To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Reply-To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" Sender: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" X-URL: At 8:10 PM -0800 1/4/98, Eric Mings wrote: > I noticed on Apple's info about acceptable behavior on their lists, that > they ban postings which originate from anonymous remailers (of which they > include juno). I was wondering what experience people have had regarding > abusive posts from such systems, and how one easily identifies them if > you choose to ban postings originating from such systems. Thanks. That's me. I decided to stop accepting posts from anonymous remailers way back, when anon.penet.fi was still alive. Some of that is philosophy, some of that was problems. As far as problems, it's the normal stuff -- personal attacks, mailbombing through anonymous remailers, copyright/slander/libel issues, all the normal fun and games. Since you can't track users back, you have real problems policing them. And since anonymous remailers tend to allow multiple (heading towards infinite) remailing addresses, the practical issue of how to lock out an abusive user becomes severe. That's why Juno is bounced -- you can create accounts and then use them instantly, with no policing and no tracking. I had a problem a while back with an idiot who did, abusively. After about four rounds of trying to get him to go away, I did it the hard way, with a virtual neutron bomb. Juno's no help. In THAT case, I got email from them six weeks later apologizing for being so delayed in responding to my requests for help. they didn't offer to help, they just apologized for not telling me they wouldn't for so long. And that's been typical of my dealing with them. They don't police. They don't care. Their systems are set up so that basically, they *can't* police things. So I just don't even get into it. Since I can't police their users, I police their site. Effectively, they are an anonymous remailer. God knows enough folks use them as one. -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq at apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui at plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From ffd5367 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 07:09:20 1998 From: ffd5367 at hotmail.com (ffd5367 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:09:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: This really is absolutely incredible! Message-ID: <78203468_1696351> Work SMART......not hard! You can easily make hundreds a week just passing out this 800 number with your code number. Some are even making thousands a week. It is the easiest money that I have ever made! The company does the selling for you, closes the deal, and sends you $100 for every sale! There is even a built in residual that goes with it. I have done a lot of programs but NOTHING comes close to this! Don't miss this opportunity! Call now! 1-800-811-2141 Code #44737 (This is HOT! If it is busy, keep trying). In Canada call 1-800-588-9786 Code #44737 This company has been in business for 2 years.. ***************************************************************************** To be removed from this list please reply to this message with "remove" in the subject field. ***************************************************************************** From declan at well.com Mon Jan 5 15:20:04 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:20:04 +0800 Subject: Crypto-enemy senator gets cash from Johnny Chung Message-ID: Sen. Kerry is not as extreme as Sen. Kerrey, but he still is an enemy of strong encryption. I wrote last year: >>>> The committee also approved amendments proposed by Kerry that would give jurisdiction over crypto exports to a nine-member "Encryption Export Advisory Board." The panel would "evaluate whether [a] market exists abroad" and make non-binding recommendations to the president. <<<< Here's what he's been up to recently... -Declan KERRY: DAMAGE CONTROL Boston Globe's Black reports, Boston atty Robert Crowe on 12/29 resigned as chair of Sen. John Kerry's (D) camp. finance cmte "in response to negative publicity that featured his ties" to Kerry. Crowe, "a longtime close personal friend and financial supporter" of Kerry's, "reportedly decided that he had had enough of critical newspaper stories, sources close to Kerry said." Kerry, responding to the resignation which he termed "understandable": "Bob Crowe has done an outstanding job for me, often at the expense of his own personal life." Crowe had "made headlines" recently in regard to his role as a lobbyist for Boston's Big Dig and his work for a firm hired by the Swiss Bankers Assn. Kerry's finance cmte will be "'streamlined'" and headed by Peter Maroney who was hired by the campaign last fall (12/30). CHUNG CONNECTION? A Los Angeles Times article by Rempel & Miller reported that Kerry received $10K in '97 from Dem contributor Johnny Chung following Chung's "high-level meeting" with SEC officials, arranged for him by Kerry's office soon after he paid a visit there. A Kerry spokesperson "confirmed that Kerry's office contacted the SEC" on Chung's behalf, "but she said it involved no more than helping arrange "'a tour.'" The DoJ is investigating the contribution which Chung is said to have made through several employees and others whom he reimbursed. Kerry spokesperson Tovah Ravitz "acknowledged" that Chung was approached for a donation "'numerous times because they were nearing the end of a tough campaign.'" Although Ravitz said Kerry's office arranged a tour for Chung, SEC officials "said the request on behalf of Chung involved a briefing session" (12/24). Boston Globe's Zitner follows up on the Times story, reporting that Chung's visit to the SEC "was something more than a casual tour but something less than special access to high government official, the SEC said." Kerry's Ravitz said Chung made the request for a stop at the SEC during an 8/96 visit, accompanied by other Asian businessmen, to Kerry's office. Chung and the others visited the SEC later the same day (12/25). On 12/26, USA Today reported that Ravitz said the Times was incorrect in its initial report (12/26). 01/05 12:35 From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Jan 5 16:42:54 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:42:54 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <53Zuie3w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Declan McCullagh writes: > We have a good story in this week's Time that talks about how the ski > resort had repeatedly asked the Kennedys to knock it off. Including the > night before the accident. Even on the "fateful" afternoon, the ski patrol > had told the Kennedys -- the last on the slopes -- it was time to quit. > "Nevertheless, 36 members of the Kennedy party prepared to play." "Evolution in action." Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ichudov at Algebra.COM Mon Jan 5 16:47:41 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:47:41 +0800 Subject: Lock and Load (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980105111943.006ce590@popd.netcruiser> Message-ID: <199801060038.SAA30088@manifold.algebra.com> Jonathan Wienke wrote: > At 10:37 PM 12/22/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >You can't lock and load an AK. I remember that very well even though it > >has been a while. The bolt just would not go far enough back to pick up > >the cartridge. The bolt carrier's charging handle would only go as far > >as to allow for the weapon inspection. > > I own a Norinco MAK-90 (a semi-auto only AK variant) and it is designed so > that a round cannot be chambered with the safety on. If the weapon is not > cocked, the hammer hits the top of the sear (which is locked by the safety) > and prevents the bolt from traveling more than 1 inch to the rear. If the > weapon is cocked, the charging handle on the side of the bolt hits the > front of the safety lever, which stops the rearward travel of the bolt at > about 2.5 inches, which is not sufficient to chamber a round. The magazine > can be inserted or removed regardless of the position of the safety or the > bolt. All AKs are like that. And I maintain that it is the right design, from the safety standpoint. - Igor. From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au Mon Jan 5 17:46:32 1998 From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:46:32 +0800 Subject: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: Hi All, > >> 800 MHz analog may be the most difficult. GSM perhaps can reach 500 meteres >>under ideal conditions >> (Andreas Bogk). IS-95/CDMA probably a bit better than GSM due to the very >>high data (chip) rate and >> spread spectrum's better multipath characteristics, although the system's >>multipath performance most >> improves communications not ranging (Phil Karn, Qualcomm). > > >GSM doesn't use spread spectrum? > >Either way, I'd imagine that the accurate time domain division used with GSM >would provide >the Telco's with something a lot better than 500 meters. > >Some cells where I live aren't much further apart than 500 meters. :) > >Bye for now. From guy at panix.com Mon Jan 5 17:58:49 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:58:49 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation Message-ID: <199801060150.UAA21492@panix2.panix.com> > "Evolution in action." > Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. Too bad _you_ reproduced. ---guy From schneier at counterpane.com Mon Jan 5 18:53:42 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:53:42 +0800 Subject: Comparing PGP to Symantec's Secret Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801060247.UAA24711@mixer.visi.com> > Having worked for those multinationals and defense >contractors, I've seen them buy new products with serious weaknesses >in key generation, with year 2000 problems, with stream ciphers used >to protect stored data--keyed the same way each time. I've seen them >use code that sent cleartext where it should have been encrypting on >the wire. I second this. The pitiful state of "secure code" is shocking. (Actually, I just wrote an essay on the topic. Get a copy for yourself at: http://www.counterpane.com/pitfalls.html.) Bruce ************************************************************************** * Bruce Schneier For information on APPLIED CRYPTOGRAPHY * Counterpane Systems 2nd EDITION (15% discount and errata), * schneier at counterpane.com Counterpane Systems's consulting services, * http://www.counterpane.com/ or the Blowfish algorithm, see my website. ************************************************************************** From schneier at counterpane.com Mon Jan 5 19:04:29 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:04:29 +0800 Subject: Comparing PGP to Symantec's Secret Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801060259.UAA26681@mixer.visi.com> At 08:56 PM 12/16/97 -0800, Bill Frantz wrote: >At 3:01 AM -0800 12/16/97, Vin McLellan wrote: >> Norton Secret Stuff secures the data using the 32-bit Blowfish >>encryption algorithm -- which is why it's approved for unrestricted export >>outside the US by the U.S. government. > >This is the first I've heard of a Blowfish based produce being approved for >export. Since Blowfish has about 9 bits worth of protection against brute >force searches in its key schedule, this is about a 41 bit approval. Does >anyone know of an export permit for a version of Blowfish with a key longer >than 32 bits? Blowfish with a 32-bit key has been approved for export before. The argument is that the long key setup time makes 32-bit Blowfish as weak as 40-bit anything else. I don't particularly agree, but there you have it. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 http://www.counterpane.com From pkmrght1823 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 14:57:15 1998 From: pkmrght1823 at aol.com (pkmrght1823 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:57:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Prodigious Sports Picks Message-ID: <>


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P.S.   After you cash in on Tuesday, give us a call Wednesday for more
         basketball action. We will also be having the winning picks for the 
         AFC and NFC championship games after Friday.
        
		       

                                         

 









From pkmrght1823 at aol.com  Tue Jan  6 14:57:15 1998
From: pkmrght1823 at aol.com (pkmrght1823 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:57:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Prodigious Sports Picks
Message-ID: <>



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From weidai at eskimo.com  Tue Jan  6 01:05:50 1998
From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:05:50 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
Message-ID: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>



I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
already lost!

Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
crypto?






From tcmay at got.net  Tue Jan  6 02:12:19 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:12:19 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: 



At 12:51 AM -0800 1/6/98, Wei Dai wrote:
>I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
>Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
>properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
>domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
>already lost!

People on almost any unmoderated mailing list will talk about what
interests them. Those who mainly want to talk about crypto are of course
free to do so.

(You have, Wei, done important work in this area. But you very, very seldom
write articles on this list, at least not for the last couple of years--I
count less than one article per month from you over the past half year. I
urge you to write such articles if you dislike reading what others are
writing.)

I agree that two or three or four or five years ago I was much more likely
to write about something more crypto-related. Well, much time has passed.
Most things worth saying have been said, at least for me. I can't work up
the energy to discuss "data havens" a fourth or fifth time.

(And an article from me on data havens, or information markets, or crypto
anarchy, will usually produce complaints from people who don't see what it
has to do with getting the latest version of PGP! That's only a slight
exaggeration.)

There have also been very few major new participants. A few years ago we
could count on one or two major new "talents" joining the list each year,
generating articles and new ideas. For whatever reasons, this has nearly
stopped.

I would guess the reasons are related to a) no major publicity stories as
in past years, b) the disintegration of the list a year ago in the wake of
the "moderation" fiasco (which cut subscriptions by 3-5x), c) competition
from several other crypto lists, "moderated" by their owners, d) exhaustion
of the older participants in the battles, and e) those who are interested
in our topics have mostly already found us (meaning, the rich hunting
period is over). ;


>Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
>crypto?

This has an obvious answer. Guns are a last resort. Crypto makes it less
likely that Big Brother will know what the proles are talking about, less
likely that participants in a plan will be targetted for investigation and
raids.

Wei, your question could be paraphrased this way:

"If Pablo Escobar could defend himself with guns, why did he need crypto in
his cellphone?"

(The answer being that P. Escobar was detected by using a cellphone without
security. The NSA then told the DEA and its allies where he was and they
took him out on a rooftop.)

Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been
working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing*
in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being
discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. Yawn.

--Tim May



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From rittle at supra.rsch.comm.mot.com  Tue Jan  6 02:14:10 1998
From: rittle at supra.rsch.comm.mot.com (Loren J. Rittle)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:14:10 +0800
Subject: Mobile phones used as trackers
In-Reply-To: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <199801061007.EAA28104@supra.rsch.comm.mot.com>



In article <199801012054.PAA25297 at users.invweb.net>,
"William H. Geiger III"  writes:

> It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone
> turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell
> phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system).

This is the funniest thing I have read in some time.  Assuming you
watch the show, I think you may have watched too many episodes of the
X-Files (TM).

When the subscriber unit (SU a.k.a. the cellular phone) is turned off,
"they" can't track you.  Now, it is possible that some cars have
built-in SUs that automatically power-on whenever the car is started.
In this case, the SU is clearly turned on and the user knows it.

Analog cellular phone systems in the U.S. only force the SU to
transmit when they need too.  As someone else already mentioned, from
the perspective of cellular system operators, bandwidth is in short
supply.  The cellular system operators wouldn't stand for a bunch of
unneeded transmissions "just to track location".

Based upon my own personal informal study [1] and some past knowledge
of cellular-type systems [2], in general, I believe the following
about analog cellular systems fielded in the U.S.:

1) "They" might be able to get a location reading at power-on time.
   The SU will check to see if it is being powered on within a
   different cell than it was last registered.  If the cell is
   different, then the SU transmits a message on the cell's control
   channel to reregister.  If the SU believes it is in the same cell,
   then it doesn't transmit anything at power-on time.  If the SU
   transmits, it will be a very short burst.  This would allow an
   attacker to see your location at power-on time.

2) When your SU is on, "they" can track your cell-to-cell movements.
   Cells are on the order of 1-10 miles in diameter.  The more
   populated the area (actually, the more likely the system is to be
   used in an area), the smaller the cell size.  "They" will only get
   a reading when you move between cells.  The system uses a form of
   hysteresis so your SU doesn't flip back and forth between two cells
   while you are on the "edge" between cell.  Actually, there are no
   real edges to the cells in an RF cellular system.  There is a bit
   of overlap between cells and the cell boundaries actually move over
   time due to environmental factors.  I.e. your SU might be
   stationary and yet decide to move to a different cell due to a
   stronger signal being seen from a different cell at a particular
   point in time.

3) "They" can track your fine-grain movement while you are engaged in
    a call or call setup.  This is because an SU transmits the entire
    time these activities take place.  Note that call setup can be for
    either incoming or outgoing calls.

The above appear to be the only times an SU will transmit in a
properly functioning analog cellular system.

Now, if we change the rules to allow an active "spoof" attack or
participation by the service provider, I speculate that specific
attacks against one or a few people (well, actually against their SUs)
could be waged to track their fine-grain movement:

4) Continuously inform the SU that an incoming call is waiting.  The
   user would get an indication of this attack since the phone would
   "ring" to signal an incoming call.  OTOH, perhaps, there is a way
   to inform the SU that an incoming call is waiting without allowing
   the phone to enter the final state where it begins to "ring".  A
   detailed study of the air interface and SU implementations would be
   required to understand if the silent attack is possible.  This
   attack could target one SU.  Even if direct indications were not
   seen by the user, battery life would be shortened somewhat.

5) Continuously force the SU to "see" a different cell code, thus
   forcing it to continuously reregister.  The user would get no
   direct indication during the attack.  However, battery life would
   be shortened somewhat.  There may be protection in the SU to ensure
   a minimum time period between reregistrations.  However, this would
   just limit the fineness of the tracking.  Again, detailed study
   would be required.  This attack would appear to target multiple SUs
   in a given area.

If you assume your attacker is capable of (4), (5) and similar tricks
and you have something to hide, then I suppose turning your SU off and
on is a wise course of action.

However, the coarse-grain (pin-point location but only at widely
dispersed points in time) tracking afforded by (1) and (2) seem like
minimal threats.  If you are concerned by (3), then please remind me
why you are using the analog cellular phone system.

Regards,
Loren

[1] My informal study was conducted with a Motorola Micro TAC Lite SU
    and an HP 2.9 GHz Spectrum Analyzer on 1/5/98 and 1/6/98.  My
    analog cellular service provider is Ameritech in the Chicagoland
    area.

[2] Disclaimer: I personally work on research related to the iDEN
    system (which is an advanced form of digital cellular with
    dispatch services and packet data) being rolled out nationwide in
    the U.S. by Nextel along with other local and international
    operators.  Motorola recently shipped the millionth SU for iDEN.
    I am only speaking for myself.  I have never worked on analog
    cellular systems nor read its specification.

-- 
Loren J. Rittle (rittle at comm.mot.com)	PGP KeyIDs: 1024/B98B3249 2048/ADCE34A5
Systems Technology Research (IL02/2240)	FP1024:6810D8AB3029874DD7065BC52067EAFD
Motorola, Inc.				FP2048:FDC0292446937F2A240BC07D42763672
(847) 576-7794				Call for verification of fingerprints.






From rdl at mit.edu  Tue Jan  6 02:50:14 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:50:14 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
Message-ID: 



 (Wei Dai) writes:

> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
> already lost!
> 
> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
> crypto?

I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With maybe
$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way.  Multiply
that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian
resistance *can* defeat an occupying army.

Certainly in times of "peace" information/infrastructure warfare is much
more cost effective for the guerilla -- but once they start sending armored
patrols around armed with 600 surplus M-16 rifles and having [un]official
rules of engagement which include sniper fire on the wives and children
of citizens not convicted of any crime, burning tens of people alive for
their religious beliefs, forcibly sodomizing suspects with wooden rods, and
passing laws which cripple the 1st by making it a crime to read, it's
perhaps worth looking at other methods of resistance. (wow, that approached
Hettingan length while having little in common with his style :)

Plus, I honestly believe certain people who lacked the foresight or desire
to use anonymity have increased the chances of illegal unconstitutional
government action against them.  It'll be a lot harder to quietly kill
someone and keep it out of the news if they're prepared to fight back
to the extent that I gather Tim May and others are prepared.  Even if
being armed does nothing more than let the world know they have declared
war against the constitution, it's worth it.

Me, I still plan to get out before high powered riflery becomes anything
other than a sport.  The Seychelles are looking remarkably tempting... 

(I still say steel core ammo is the way to go, especially in 5.56 NATO and
7.62 Soviet.  There exist plenty of vests which have rifle hardplate to
stop those rounds -- even 7.62 NATO rounds.  7.62 NATO AP/API, though,
is a bit tougher, buying you substantial time)    

Hacking on Eternity DDS,
Ryan
[Not actually a gun toting lunatic, nor does he play one on TV, but
 rather keeps them in a safe, and carries knives instead.  Yay Massachusetts.
 I hope this does not spark a discussion of how to stop a government
 assault force armed with only a knife (hint: the answer is not "in parallel")]

[*ObCrypto* (it's getting really hard to do this every time):
AOLserver (a nice web server formerly from GNN/navisoft) punted their
128bit SSL module distribution *EVEN TO US CITIZENS* due to commerce
department fuckedness.  Anyone know where I could get a copy?  It would
really suck to have to patch the 40bit one into a 128bit version, since they
do not distribute source.  Sigh.  But I've started to use it for insecure
stuff because it's cheaper than Stronghold (read: free) and does some cool
database stuff easier than apache.  And (cool db stuff + free) is more
important than (secure) or (secure and easily configured and supported)
for this.]

-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		






From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Jan  6 04:14:06 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:14:06 +0800
Subject: Letter on Jim Bell
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980106115810.0074e354@pop.pipeline.com>



There's a recent letter on Jim Bell/AP/IRS harassment
by long-time friend Bob East at:

   http://www.charm.net/~joabj/belet.htm

Offered by Joab Jackson, who wrote the recent story 
posted here for the Baltimore City Paper.






From e7L0yp5sK at pobox.com  Tue Jan  6 20:18:43 1998
From: e7L0yp5sK at pobox.com (e7L0yp5sK at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:18:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Season Greetings From The 'Sound Of Music Palace'
Message-ID: 


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From ww44me at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  6 21:11:13 1998
From: ww44me at ix.netcom.com (ww44me at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:11:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Looking For Extra Cash???
Message-ID: 



Hello my name is Denette,

PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

The company I was working for just went out of business and I've been looking for a job.  I always 
used to delete unsolicited e-mail advertisements before I finished reading them.  I received what I 
assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time.

Recently I received it again and thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this, I need the money.  I 
can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little 
excess cash."  I promptly mailed four $5 bills and after receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a 
small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me.  After reading the reports, I also learned 
how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! 

You just need to follow the directions EXACTLY and you will reap the rewards also.  Read this letter, 
pick a lifelong dream you have and apply the letter and you will achieve success.  It really is that 
easy.  You don't need to be a wizard at the computer, but I'll bet you already are.   If you can open 
an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank.  
If I can do this, so can you!

                       GO FOR IT NOW!!

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see.  Many times 
over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash.  This program is 
showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional 
income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to come in contact 
with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get 
the mail and go to the bank!  

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, 
and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level 
marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! 

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc., 
    -  Even retire! 

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. 
As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our 
products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your 
computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each.  
Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!  The $5.00 is yours!  This 
is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! 

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them).
     
     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE 
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose 
        name appears on the list next to the report.
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. 
         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send 
         to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
     to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is
     instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the
     majority of your profits.  Once you  understand the way this works, you'll 
     also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember, this method 
     has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address 
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that 
         was there down to REPORT #2.  

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to 
         REPORT #3.  

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to 
         REPORT #4.  

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save 
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this 
     letter.
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists.  
     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 
     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE 
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
     advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT 
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL 
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) 
your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  
	VTM Services
	P.O. Box 3691
	Ventura, CA 93006
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
 	KL Marketing
            5225 Blakeslee Ave. Ste. 149
            North Hollywood, CA 91601
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
 	AIK
            10629 Woodbridge Ave. Ste. 104
            Toluca Lake, CA 91602
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
 	RCC Enterprises
            24303 Woolsey Cyn. #1
            West Hills, CA 91304      
_________________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people 
to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger 
response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline 
members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                                                   THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each.  Think 
for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate!  Most people get 100's of 
participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously 
already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most 
productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors 
even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow 
     the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when 
    the orders start coming in because:

When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the 
U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. 
Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or 
service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you 
do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you 
don't, continue advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT 
#2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to 
roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  
You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you.  
If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process 
again!  There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is 
handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for 
free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via 
telephone and free seminars about business taxes.

*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rule of not trying to 
place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm 
living proof that it works.  It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost 
to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to 
financial security. 
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major 
U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris 
about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population 
and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence 
and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you 
so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had 
received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was 
shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have 
joined Doris in her "hobby."   I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat 
race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any doubts you have will 
vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the 
plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely 
profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several 
times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal 
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with 
money still coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this 
plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just 
no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when 
I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that I 
had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of 
my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people 
live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a 
try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed 
another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than 
$41,000 on the first try!!
          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

     This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home 
on the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work 
for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  
Good luck and happy spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON 
YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!






From works4me at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  6 21:28:40 1998
From: works4me at ix.netcom.com (works4me at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:28:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Happy New Year!
Message-ID: <>


OnLineNow wishes you a Happy and Prosperous 1998.

OnLineNow World Wide Directories
http://onlinenow.net/frames/





From works4me at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  6 21:28:40 1998
From: works4me at ix.netcom.com (works4me at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:28:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Happy New Year!
Message-ID: <>


OnLineNow wishes you a Happy and Prosperous 1998.

OnLineNow World Wide Directories
http://onlinenow.net/frames/





From isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de  Tue Jan  6 07:11:52 1998
From: isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de (Ian Sparkes)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:11:52 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980106144257.006f0fec@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 05:28 06.01.98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> (Wei Dai) writes:
>
>> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here 
lately.
>> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual 
economic
>> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in 
the
>> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, 
we've
>> already lost!
>> 
>> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we 
need
>> crypto?
>
>I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could 
inflict
>a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With 
maybe
>$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could 
make
>life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way.  
Multiply
>that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian
>resistance *can* defeat an occupying army.
>

I'm not sure I am convinced by this argument.

The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in 
the CP list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is 
manned by your countrymen at the command of their (and your) 
government, what then?

As far as I can see, the result would be a *very* bloody civil war. 
The outcome may indeed be less obvious than in a 'conventional' (i.e. 
unarmed populace) civil war, but the cost much higher.

This is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I admit I am 
poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However, my 
experience of civil war victims (refugees from the E-bloc) suggests 
that we should be concentrating on social revolution before we tool 
up for military. There is more to be won, with a potentially much 
lower cost.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNLImc4n3W0ooQnZKEQL4VwCffzMNK1MfQ/1zMv+E/3dfoioc8e8AoL0d
uZMzgq6LPu9nVe90kcA49cbG
=yL/D
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From dm0 at avana.net  Tue Jan  6 08:10:03 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:10:03 +0800
Subject: Mobile phones used as trackers
In-Reply-To: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <34B27F22.7C07@avana.net>



Loren J. Rittle wrote:

> If you assume your attacker is capable of (4), (5) and similar tricks
> and you have something to hide, then I suppose turning your SU off and
> on is a wise course of action.

Another attack that was recently described to me by someone in the industry
is to setup a three-way conversation, which basically is a cellular phone
tap.  The conversation could be split within the cell network to a silent
party more interested in your communications than your location.

--David Miller






From isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de  Tue Jan  6 08:15:58 1998
From: isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de (Ian Sparkes)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:15:58 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980106170810.006f0ff8@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de>



At 05:28 06.01.98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> (Wei Dai) writes:
>
>> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
>> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
>> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
>> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
>> already lost!
>> 
>> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
>> crypto?
>
>I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
>a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe
>$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
>life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way. Multiply
>that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian
>resistance *can* defeat an occupying army.
>

I'm not sure I am convinced by this argument.

The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in the CP
list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is manned by your
countrymen at the command of their (and your) government, what then? Will
you still attempt to defeat the 'occupying army'?

As far as I can see, the result would be a *very* bloody civil war. The
outcome may indeed be less obvious than in a 'conventional' (i.e. unarmed
populace) civil war, but the cost much higher.

Bear in mind that this is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I
admit I am poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However,
my experience of civil war victims (extensive contact with refugees from
the E-bloc) suggests to me that we should be concentrating on social
revolution before we tool up for a military one. There is more to be won,
with a potentially much lower cost.

By all means buy the hardware, that is after all your right. Just spare the
hero talk. *Everyone* thinks they'll be one of the survivors in a war, just
as 95% of the population believe they have an above average IQ.

My understanding of the word 'revolution' in this context means realigning
the opinions of the governments and peoples around the globe to allow
freedoms such as those supported by Cypherpunks to be freely available. An
example of this is to work against the misinformation spread by 'them'
which leads the average Joe (dumb or not) to think that 'Encrypted Data =
Child Porn/Drug Barons planning something big/More child porn'.






From whgiii at invweb.net  Tue Jan  6 08:25:39 1998
From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:25:39 +0800
Subject: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801061630.LAA15383@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on
01/05/98 
   at 11:14 AM, Andy Dustman  said:

>A couple problems: PGP (2.6.x) doesn't seem to have an option to only
>de-armor

PGP -da [filename]

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNLJZ9o9Co1n+aLhhAQHtGAP+LCyT+AGEcQoatO6vGAzj1qAInO9eSb9a
Lhil7PdLxJFJO7FrkkpEkUSq+thIpKU5H+Kfo/qwq+fkeIKlgh8EAlog4bLTaTg8
yW2ZAOn1qVY5xZHppvIn946WE0/IxFCXee5EfzrnhchvpzVn4JXtYkWNf0wqP8it
vPOsqKr3XQ4=
=Vx+s
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Wed Jan  7 00:42:43 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:42:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Wed Jan 7 '98
Message-ID: <19980107081612.27681.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From sunder at brainlink.com  Tue Jan  6 09:04:53 1998
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:04:53 +0800
Subject: 800 pound GorillaSoft
In-Reply-To: <00456D9D.1576@usccmail.lehman.com>
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Salvatore DeNaro passed me this url:

 http://www.motherjones.com/mother_jones/JF98/burstein.html

"But instead of waiting for a ruling on the case, the BSA abruptly dropped
the suit in the fall of 1997. The BSA receives funding from most of the
top software companies but appears to be most heavily funded by Microsoft.
And, according to Antel's information technology manager, Ricardo
Tascenho, the company settled the matter by signing a "special agreement"
with Microsoft to replace all of its software with Microsoft products...."



Happy happy joy joy.  Microsoft saves a pirate by assimilating it.
Resistance is futile. You will sell NT. :(
 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================






From sunder at brainlink.com  Tue Jan  6 09:12:53 1998
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:12:53 +0800
Subject: fwd: The Swedes discover Lotus Notes has key escrow! (Win Treese)
Message-ID: 



(From the SpyKing Security Mailing list)

2)From: Mike G 
Subject: Lotus Privacy Problems

This was taken from the Computer Privacy Digest 1/4/98 V12#00

Very interesting.

The Swedes discover Lotus Notes has key escrow! (Win Treese)

The article describes the reaction when various people in the Swedish
government learned that the Lotus Notes system they were using includes
key escrow.   They were apparently unaware of this until Notes was in
use by thousands of people in government and industry.

Besides being an interesting reaction to key escrow systems, this
incident reminds us that one should understand the real security of a
system....

  Secret Swedish E-Mail Can Be Read by the U.S.A.  
  Fredrik Laurin, Calle Froste, *Svenska Dagbladet*, 18 Nov 1997

One of the world's most widely used e-mail programs, the American Lotus
Notes, is not so secure as most of its 400,000 to 500,000 Swedish users
believe.  To be sure, it includes advanced cryptography in its e-mail
function, but the codes that protect the encryption have been
surrendered to American authorities.  With them, the U.S. government
can decode encrypted information.  Among Swedish users are 349
parliament members, 15,000 tax agency employees, as well as employees
in large businesses and the defense department.  ``I didn't know that
our Notes keys were deposited (with the U.S.).  It was interesting to
learn this,'' says Data Security Chief Jan Karlsson at the [Swedish]
our Notes keys were deposited (with the U.S.).  It was interesting to
learn this,'' says Data Security Chief Jan Karlsson at the [Swedish]
defense department.  Gunnar Grenfors, Parliament director and daily
e-mail user, says, ``I didn't know about this--here we handle sensitive
information concerning Sweden's interests, and we should not leave the
keys to this information to the U.S. government or anyone else.  This
must be a basic requirement.''

Sending information over the Internet is like sending a postcard--it's
that simple to read these communications.  When e-mail is encrypted, it
becomes unintelligible for anyone who captures it during transport.
Only those who have the right codes or raw computer power to break the
encryption can read it.  For crime prevention and national security
reasons, the United States has tough regulations concerning the level
of crytography that may be exported.  Both large companies and
intelligence agencies can already--in a fractions of a second--break
the simpler cryptographic protections.  For the world-leading American
computer industry, cryptographic export controls are therefore an ever
greater obstacle.  This slows down utilization of the Internet by
businesses because companies outside the U.S.A. do not dare to send
important information over the Internet.  On the other hand, the
encryption that may be used freely within the U.S.A. is substantially
more secure.

Lotus, a subsidiary of the American computer giant IBM, has negotiated
a special solution to the problem.  Lotus gets to export strong
cryptography with the requirement that vital parts of the secret keys
are deposited with the U.S. government.  ``The difference between the
American Notes version and the export version lies in degrees of
encryption.  We deliver 64 bit keys to all customers, but 24 bits of
those in the version that we deliver outside of the United States are
deposited with the American government.  That's how it works today,''
says Eileen Rudden, vice president at Lotus.

Those 24 bits are critical for security in the system.  40-bit
encryption is broken by a fast computer in several seconds, while 64
bits is much more time-consuming to break if one does not have the 24
bits [table omitted].  Lotus cannot answer as to which authorities have
received the keys and what rules apply for giving them out.  The
company has confidence that the American authorities responsible for
this have full control over the keys and can ensure that they will not
be misused.

On the other hand, this (assurance) does not matter to Swedish
companies.  On the contrary, there is a growing understanding that it
would be an unacceptable security risk to place the corporation's own
``master key'' in the hands of foreign authorities.  Secret information
can leak or be spread through, for example, court decisions in other
countries.  These concerns are demonstrated clearly in a survey by the
SAF Trade and Industry security delegation.  Some 60 companies answered
the survey.  They absolutely do not want keys deposited in the U.S.A.
It is business secrets they are protecting.  These corporations fear
that anyone can get a hold of this information, states Claes Blomqvist
at SAF.

Swedish businesses are also afraid of leaks within the American
authorities.  The security chief at SKF, Lars Lungren, states: ``If one
has a lawful purpose for having control over encryption, it isn't a
problem.  But the precept is flawed: They ought to monitor
(internally), but the Americans now act as if there are no crooks
working within their authorities.''

In some countries, intelligence agencies clearly have taken a position
on their country's trade and industry.  Such is the case in France.
One example, which French authorities chose to publicize, was in 1995
when five CIA agents were deported after having spied on a French
telecommunications company.

Win Treese 

  [The Lotus Notes crypto scheme is one that I have familiarly been
  calling ``64 40 or fight!'' (in a reference to a slogan for an early
  U.S. election campaign border-dispute issue many years ago.  PGN]







From ericm at lne.com  Tue Jan  6 09:14:06 1998
From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:14:06 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <199801061655.IAA23107@slack.lne.com>



Wei Dai writes:
> 
> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
> already lost!
> 
> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
> crypto?

I agree- the fedz will always have better firepower than any of
us.  Tim's strategy of letting them know that he won't take
a 'no-knock' raid sitting down might keep them honest.  Or it
might make them come in with 80 special agents and a heliocopter to
drop napalm on his house.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time setting up defenses against a
massive police attack- the costs are too high (expensive weapons, time
practicing on the range) and the hassle is great... who wants to
live barricaded in their house, jumping at every noise?

Better to do the things that we're good at- writing code, cracking
codes, writing about crypto-liberation ideas.

However, guns are good for a couple things- they're still useful
against non-government thugs, and they're a hell of a lot of fun.


-- 
Eric Murray  Chief Security Scientist  N*Able Technologies  www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at  lne.com   or   nabletech.com)          PGP keyid:E03F65E5






From andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu  Tue Jan  6 09:43:05 1998
From: andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu (Andy Dustman)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:43:05 +0800
Subject: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers?
In-Reply-To: <199801061630.LAA15383@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> In , on
> 01/05/98 
>    at 11:14 AM, Andy Dustman  said:
> 
> >A couple problems: PGP (2.6.x) doesn't seem to have an option to only
> >de-armor
> 
> PGP -da [filename]

Well that would help a lot, then. Find the begin and end headers for the
PGP message, pipe it into pgp -da, throw away the output, check the exit
code, which should be set if the armor was invalid (or perhaps look at
stderr). Like I said, though, you could still make the armor valid by
correctly calculating the CRC, or even make PGP generate the armor with
the insult/flames/whatever in the output (just a matter of shifting some
bits around before armoring, could be done in perl). But this is certainly
not worth worrying about. 

Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design
For a great anti-spam procmail recipe, send me mail with subject "spam".
Append "+spamsucks" to my username to ensure delivery.  KeyID=0xC72F3F1D
Encryption is too important to leave to the government. -- Bruce Schneier
http://www.athens.net/~dustman mailto:andy at neptune.chem.uga.edu   <}+++<


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From whgiii at invweb.net  Tue Jan  6 09:45:57 1998
From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:45:57 +0800
Subject: Mobile phones used as trackers
In-Reply-To: <199801061007.EAA28104@supra.rsch.comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <199801061749.MAA16034@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199801061007.EAA28104 at supra.rsch.comm.mot.com>, on 01/06/98 
   at 05:07 AM, "Loren J. Rittle"  said:

>In article <199801012054.PAA25297 at users.invweb.net>,
>"William H. Geiger III"  writes:

>> It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone
>> turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell
>> phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system).

>This is the funniest thing I have read in some time.  Assuming you watch
>the show, I think you may have watched too many episodes of the X-Files
>(TM).

The point I was trying to make, and you seemed to have missed, is that
just because you turn off the switch and the lights are not flashing and
blinking does not mean that power is not going to some of the circuits.

Take the following into account:

1) Location Tracking via Cell Phone is currently available using equipment
in place.

2) FCC mandates for Location tracking under the cover of 911 service

3) In field testing being done in several cities.

4) Lojack systems in place in several cities.

5) Systems in development for continuous traffic monitoring in the major
cities for automated traffic management to address the problems of "rush
hour" traffic.

6) GPS systems being built into productions vehicles at the factory.

It seems only natural to merge these into one piece of equipment using one
communication infrastructure. I think that if you take a closer look at
where various technologies and regulations are going to see that this is
less "X-File" like than you may think.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From honig at otc.net  Tue Jan  6 10:01:00 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:01:00 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106095312.007b8eb0@otc.net>



At 01:54 AM 1/6/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 12:51 AM -0800 1/6/98, Wei Dai wrote:
>>I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.

Wei, Tim's response, though correct, is too serious.  The real reason, I am
inferring as I was not the initiator, was humor.

This list tolerates a fair amount of crap, including spam and random
ad-hominems.
This is a result of the openness required to permit anonymous posts as has 
been explained in the last month or so.

I have considered this 1. an occasional demonstration of
crypto issues, esp. anonymity and authentication 2.  just typical net.abuse.
(There is also some oddness going on apparently between Vulis and others on
this
list, which Vulis didn't deny was spoofed when I asked.  I don't know why,
as V. seems to be libertarian, if homophobic.)

There are also various humorous threads and banter that occurs.  The gun-troll
was part of that.  Of course, it was a respectable question and answered well,
although TM's answer tended towards the expensive, but Intel has done well.
Both the question itself on this list, and the dryness of the answers, were
amusing.

The body-armor question is humorous also, esp. following the gun side-thread.

Of course, your milage may vary.


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig at otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	"How do you know you are not being deceived?" 
	---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, 
	Directorate of Intelligence, CIA

















From declan at well.com  Tue Jan  6 10:10:16 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:10:16 +0800
Subject: Gadget Warfare, from the Netly News
Message-ID: 



*********

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1669,00.html

The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/)
January 6, 1998

Gadget Warfare
by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com)

       For a country with no real military rivals, the U.S. still
   manages to find an amazing number of enemies. Terrorists top the list
   of anti-American villains, according to a Pentagon report released
   last month.

        The 100-page document, called "Responses to Transnational
   Threats," describes how the military should respond to the threat of
   saboteurs and bombers aiming for violence, not victory. The solution,
   according to the Pentagon, is to develop a set of gadgets that would
   make even James Bond jealous:

         * STICKY ELECTRONICS Think SpiderMan's spidertracers, only smaller.
   "Sticky electronics" adhere to a suspected terrorist's clothing, hair,
   luggage or vehicle and report his location. These almost microscopic
   gizmos tune in to satellite signals and transmit their exact latitude
   and longitude. "To conserve battery (and mission life) they would
   respond only when" activated by a radio signal, the Pentagon says. And
   if you're the suspicious type, sprinkle some in your spouse's
   underwear.

         * DATA MINING If you worried about the FBI's jones for access to
   your data, wait 'til you find out what the military hopes to do. The
   Pentagon wants authority to sift through private-sector databases in
   hopes of tracking down, say, the World Trade Center bombers before
   they strike. The plan is to incorporate "real-time data on
   international border crossings, real-time cargo manifests, global
   financial transactions and the global network carrying international
   airline ticket manifests." As new private-sector databases are
   developed, "the baseline system would be augmented so that the
   correlation and fusion process becomes more automated." But the
   benefits of invading everyone's privacy are dubious: It's hard to
   imagine the alleged Unabomber, for instance, showing up in computer
   files.

[...]







From whgiii at invweb.net  Tue Jan  6 10:16:27 1998
From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:16:27 +0800
Subject: fwd: The Swedes discover Lotus Notes has key escrow! (Win Treese)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801061821.NAA16341@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on
01/06/98 
   at 12:11 PM, Ray Arachelian  said:

>Lotus, a subsidiary of the American computer giant IBM, has negotiated a
>special solution to the problem.  Lotus gets to export strong
>cryptography with the requirement that vital parts of the secret keys are
>deposited with the U.S. government.  ``The difference between the
>American Notes version and the export version lies in degrees of
>encryption.  We deliver 64 bit keys to all customers, but 24 bits of
>those in the version that we deliver outside of the United States are
>deposited with the American government.  That's how it works today,''
>says Eileen Rudden, vice president at Lotus.

I have 2 problems with this outside of the fact they are doing it:

1) 64 bits is too weak.

2) why should we trust them that it is only the export versions they are
giving the 24bit to the government on??

Yet *another* reason not to use Lotus Bloats.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From honig at otc.net  Tue Jan  6 10:24:08 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:24:08 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106100807.007ab610@otc.net>



At 05:28 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>
>I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
>a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With maybe
>$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
>life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way.  Multiply
>that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian
>resistance *can* defeat an occupying army.

A distributed decentralized terrorist group can trash almost any country's
infrastructure as well.  The gov't knows this, but if it were to start
happening (or their intelligence indicated it might) guards would be 
sent to the power stations, transformers, water works, radio relays, 
NAPs, refineries, etc.  

These guards would be physical, guarding physical resources against 
physical threats.  They would be able to resist smaller threats.
As you say, if outnumbered, they're eventually hosed.

The recent gov't interest in 'cyber' threats against infrastructure
reflects the fact that the government doesn't dominate the digital domain,
and can't protect it with troops, and needs it to run civilization and its
armies.





------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig at otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	"How do you know you are not being deceived?" 
	---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, 
	Directorate of Intelligence, CIA

















From declan at well.com  Tue Jan  6 10:31:45 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:31:45 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell article excerpt (Was: Letter on Jim Bell)
Message-ID: 



I wrote this last summer:

[...]

Then Assassination Politics sent the IRS into a
tizzy. Jeffrey Gordon, an inspector in the IRS'
Internal Security Division, widened the
investigation immediately. He detailed in an
10-page affidavit how he traced Bell's use of
allegedly fraudulent Social Security Numbers, how
he learned that Bell had been arrested in 1989
for "manufacturing a controlled substance," how
he found out that Bell possessed the home
addresses of a handful of IRS agents. Gordon's
conclusion? Bell planned "to overthrow the
government." The IRS investigator said in his
affidavit that Bell's "essay details an illegal
scheme by Bell which involves plans to
assassinate IRS and other government officials...
I believe that Bell has begun taking steps to
carry out his Assassination Politics plan."

But for all Gordon's bluster in court documents,
he had no proof that Bell broke the law. He
didn't even have enough evidence to arrest the
prolific essayist -- at least not yet.

After the April 1 raid, Gordon and a team of IRS
agents worked to assemble a case against Bell.
They pored through the hard drives of the three
computers they seized. They scrutinized documents
from Bell's house. They interrogated his friends.
They listened to tape recordings of the
"Multnomah County Common Law Court." They scoured
the Net for mentions of Assassination Politics.
Six weeks later they felt their case was
complete.

---

IRS agents arrested Bell on May 16 and charged
him with obstructing government employees and
using false Social Security numbers. Now, this is
hardly attempting "to overthrow the government."
But government agents insist Bell is far more
dangerous than the charges suggest. (The judge
seemed to agree: at the time of this writing,
Bell is being held without bail.)

The latest IRS documents filed with the court
label Bell a terrorist. They claim he talked
about sabotaging the computers in Portland,
Oregon's 911 center, contaminating a local water
supply with a botulism toxin, extracting a poison
called Ricin from castor beans, and manufacturing
Sarin nerve gas. He allegedly bought and tested
some of the chemicals. "Bell has taken overt
steps to implement his overall plan by devising,
obtaining, and testing the materials needed to
carry out attacks against the United States,
including chemicals, nerve agents, destructive
carbon fibers, firearms, and explosives," the
complaint says.

But what really got the IRS in a stink was what
happened a month after they seized Bell's car.
The complaint says: "On March 16, 1997, a Sunday,
an IRS employee noted a strong odor in the
Federal building. On March 17, 1997, several IRS
employees had to be placed on leave due to the
odor, and another employee reported other ill
effects. The odor was traced to a mat and
carpeting... just outside the IRS office
entrance." The chemical proved to be "mercaptan,"
with which Bell's friends say he doused
an adversary's law office in the early 1980s.

Yet if Bell was a crypto-terrorist, he was a
singularly idle one. This is a problem with the
IRS' accusations: if true, they prove too much.
If Bell was bent on toppling the government, and
his exploits date back from the early 1980s, why
are they such laughably juvenile and ineffectual
ones? Stink-bombing offices isn't a Federal
felony, nor should it be.

"I would've thought this would be 'malicious
mischief,' at most," Tim May, one of the founders
of the cypherpunks, writes. "People who've done
far, far, far worse are left unprosecuted in
every major jurisdiction in this country. The
meat thrown to the media -- the usual AP stuff,
mixed in with 'radical libertarian' descriptions
-- is just to make the case more
media-interesting... It sure looks like they're
trying to throw a bunch of charges against the
wall and hope that some of them stick -- or scare
Bell into pleading to a lesser charge."

Since his arrest, the denizens of the cypherpunks
list, where Bell introduced and refined his
ideas, have become generally sympathetic. Gone is
the snarling derision, the attacks on his ideas
as too extreme. Now a sense of solidarity has
emerged. One 'punk wrote: "I have decided that I
cannot in good conscience allow Jim Bell's
persecution for exercising his basic human right
to free speech to pass by without taking personal
action to support him."

---

When I talked to Bell a few days before his
arrest, he spoke calmly and with little rancor
about the pending investigation. I couldn't tell
how he felt after being raided and interrogated
by his arch-enemy, the IRS. But imagine
continuously railing on the Net against
jackbooted thugs, then having real ones bash down
your front door.

Bell was most interested in talking up
Assassination Politics and predicting how it
would eventually blossom. He had just published
an op-ed in a local newspaper saying "the whole
corrupt system" could be stopped. "Whatever my
idea is, it's not silly. There are a lot of
adjectives you can use, but not silly," he told
me. "I feel that the mere fact of having such a
debate will cause people to realize that they no
longer have to tolerate the governments they
previously had to tolerate. At that point I think
politicians will slink away like they did in
eastern Europe in 1989. They'll have lost the
war."

He told me why he became convinced that the
government needed to be lopped off at the knees.
Bell's epiphany came after he ordered a chemical
from a supply firm and was arrested when he
failed to follow EPA regulations. "That
radicalized me," he said. "That pissed me off. I
figured I'd get back at them by taking down their
entire system. That's how I'd do it."'

Moral issues aside, one of the problems plaguing
Bell's scheme is that it's not limited to
eliminating "government thugs who violate your
rights," as he likes to describe it. If it
existed, anyone with some spare change could wipe
out a nosy neighbor or even an irritating grocery
store clerk. After I pointed this out to Bell on
the phone, he fired email back a few days later
saying, "Assuming a functioning Assassination
Politics system, nothing stops you from
contributing to my death." He suggested that
maybe assassins would develop scruples: "You'd
be able to purchase deaths of unworthy people,
but it might be only at a dramatically higher
price. Doable but not particularly economical."

[...]

-Declan







From declan at well.com  Tue Jan  6 11:19:49 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:19:49 +0800
Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98)
Message-ID: 





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:10:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: fight-censorship-announce at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98)

[The best policy for the Net is probably no policy, or at most a hands-off
one. We don't have national "policies" for how we should regulate, for
example, newspapers or bookstores, and we don't need such policies for the
Net. On universal service, we already have Internet connections that are
cheaper than cable TV; on copyright, the safest course is to let federal
courts decide; on crypto, most agree that the current "policy" is
misguided at best. --Declan]

***************

    ASSOCIATION FOR COMPUTING (ACM) ANNUAL CONFERENCE

                * * *  POLICY98  * * *
         "Shaping Policy in the Information Age"

            Washington, DC, Renaissance Hotel
                    May 10-12, 1998

                  Preliminary Notice

      For Conference and Registration information see:
         http://www.acm.org/usacm/events/policy98/

The ACM Annual Conference will focus on public policy issues
affecting future applications of computing.  Our goal is to
forge stronger links between computing professionals and policy
makers.  Attendees will interact with prominent leaders from
academia, industry, Congress, and Executive agencies, and
participate in debates on policy issues including Universal
Access, Electronic Commerce, Intellectual Property, and
Education Online.

The conference will promote more regular engagement of computing
professionals in democratic processes related to productive use
of computing and information processing innovations.  A blend of
technical skills and policy insights are essential to cope with
the inherent opportunities and dangers of any transformational
technology.  Continuing collaborations between computing
professionals and policy makers will benefit citizens, consumers,
entrepreneurs, researchers, and students.  You can make a difference!

May 10: Ethical and social impacts papers and panels
May 11-12: Public policy panels and featured speakers

All Policy98 attendees are invited to the Annual ACM Awards Banquet
on Sunday evening May 10th, and a conference reception on Monday
evening May 11th.

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
PANEL TOPICS AND COORDINATORS
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Universal Service: Ollie Smoot
What can be done to promote widespread access to the benefits of
the Internet? What is the role of government and the role of the
private sector in wiring schools, libraries, and medical facilities?

Electronic Commerce: Jim Horning
How much public policy does EComm need?  What problems would
inadequate, excessive, or misguided policies cause?  Can compromises
in areas like fair trade practices, fraud prevention, security, privacy,
law enforcement, and taxation advance the interests of all stakeholders?

Intellectual Property in Cyberspace: Pam Samuelson
What will be the impact of the WIPO agreements on copyright in
cyberspace? How should intellectual property be protected  and what
safeguards are necessary to protect libraries and academic institutions?

Education Online: Charles N. Brownstein
The Internet offers unparalleled opportunities for learning and teaching.
What public policy and technical challenges must be met to realize
these prospects?


+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
CONFERENCE CO-CHAIRS
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Ben Shneiderman, USACM (U.S. Public Policy Committee)
C. Dianne Martin, SIGCAS (ACM Special Interest Group
                       on Computers & Society)

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
PROGRAM COMMITTEE CHAIRS
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Marc Rotenberg, Public Policy
Keith Miller, Ethics and Social Impacts

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
REGISTRATION INFORMATION
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
For more information, contact:  policy98 at acm.org
  or to register electronically, see:
    http://www.acm.org/usacm/events/policy98/reginfo.html
Early registrants and ACM members receive discounts.









From guy at panix.com  Tue Jan  6 11:19:53 1998
From: guy at panix.com (Information Security)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:19:53 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
Message-ID: <199801061912.OAA08946@panix2.panix.com>



Ryan Lackey 
 
#   AOLserver (a nice web server formerly from GNN/navisoft) punted their
#   128bit SSL module distribution *EVEN TO US CITIZENS* due to commerce
#   department fuckedness.  Anyone know where I could get a copy?  It would
#   really suck to have to patch the 40bit one into a 128bit version, since
#   they do not distribute source.

I don't know if this is the "module" form of the answer you want:

http://www.replay.com/
 
    Download Netscape Communicator 4.04 with 128 bits SSL today on: 
           ftp.replay.com 
    Replay Associates distributes this software
    so you can safely conduct your E-commerce

----

   Tim May wrote:

   >   Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been
   >   working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing*
   >   in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being
   >   discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus.

   >   Yawn.

How about moving this list to encrypt its transmissions in
the recipient's public keys, just to begin encrypting Net traffic?

Obviously not to hide what is being said, but simply to start
moving communications into the encrypted realm.

That way, we'll build up the software tools for handling this,
and try to get other lists to do the same.

Maybe encourage all pro-crypto people to use it for all email to as
many other people they talk with as possible. (Adopt two others...)

Heh: a white-list to allow only encrypted messages through.

Encourage Senators to set up public keys.

In general, try to get the general flow of traffic encrypted,
even if PGP is "mundane" these days.

Solving the human factors problem of getting its use wide-spread
is _not_ a mundane problem. Encryption ain't gonna be that useful
if only a few in-the-know use it.

---guy






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Tue Jan  6 11:27:33 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:27:33 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell article excerpt (Was: Letter on Jim Bell)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801061908.TAA00400@server.eternity.org>




Declan McCullagh  writes:

Declan reposting something he wrote last year:

> After I pointed this out to Bell on the phone [someone might
> assassinate annoying neighbors], he fired email back a few days
> later saying, "Assuming a functioning Assassination Politics system,
> nothing stops you from contributing to my death."  He suggested that
> maybe assassins would develop scruples: "You'd be able to purchase
> deaths of unworthy people, but it might be only at a dramatically
> higher price. Doable but not particularly economical."

You interpret Jim as implying "maybe assassins would develop
scruples"; 

this doesn't look like the meaning of what you quote Jim as saying:

 "You'd be able to purchase deaths of unworthy people, but it might be
  only at a dramatically higher price."

it looks more like Jim was suggesting that free market forces would
tend to prevent deaths of lesser known people.  Think about it -- it
would be dead easy to get a contract on Barney due to the number of
people who know and hate him -- but on an average neighbor, who is
completely obscure, you'd easily have to fund the entire bet yourself.

Adam






From emc at wire.insync.net  Tue Jan  6 11:35:58 1998
From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:35:58 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
Message-ID: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net>



Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how
this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? 

Most commercial software simply introduces redundancy in order to limit
the keyspace to 40 bits, regardless of the advertised length of the key. 
This claim that they deliver 64 bits of key to the customer seems a bit
bogus. 

Of course, they could have done something clever, like generating a
completely random 64 bit key, and then encrypting 24 bits of it with a
giant government-owned RSA public key, and including this additional
information with each message.  However, it seems unlikely that they would
employ such strong encryption for message recovery, while offering only 64
bits for message encryption. 

Is Lotus Notes encryption documented anywhere?  Are the differences
between the export and domestic versions disclosed to overseas customers?

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"






From emc at wire.insync.net  Tue Jan  6 11:53:41 1998
From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:53:41 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <199801061949.NAA09879@wire.insync.net>



To follow up my prior message...
 
I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the
Internet" on the Web.
 
It describes the weakening procedure as follows.
 
  "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the
   full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits
   of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US
   National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This
   encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an
   additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of
   this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption,
   which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption
   technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only
   has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power
   of 24 times easier, to be precise)."
 
Would anyone care to extract the modulus and exponent for the NSA's
Lotus Notes helper key and post it to this newsgroup?

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 






From jim at mentat.com  Tue Jan  6 12:15:19 1998
From: jim at mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:15:19 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
Message-ID: <9801062004.AA18375@mentat.com>



Eric Cordian says:
> Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how
> this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? 

Lotus produced a "backgrounder" called "Differential Workfactor Cryptography"
when they first promulgated the 64/40 stuff.  It says (in part):

	We do that by encrypting 24 of the 64 bits under a public RSA key
	provided by the U.S. government and binding the encrypted partial
	key to the encrypted data.

I haven't seen the USG RSA key -- if it's 512 bits, that would be a humorous
next factoring target.

	Jim Gillogly
	15 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 20:02
	12.19.4.14.15, 12 Men 13 Kankin, Seventh Lord of Night






From tcmay at got.net  Tue Jan  6 12:46:31 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:46:31 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell article excerpt (Was: Letter on Jim Bell)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 11:08 AM -0800 1/6/98, Adam Back wrote:

>it looks more like Jim was suggesting that free market forces would
>tend to prevent deaths of lesser known people.  Think about it -- it
>would be dead easy to get a contract on Barney due to the number of
>people who know and hate him -- but on an average neighbor, who is
>completely obscure, you'd easily have to fund the entire bet yourself.

The weakness of Bell's scheme was always that it only worked (so to speak)
with well-known people.

While there are some who want well-known people dead, most murders-for-hire
happen for personal or financial reasons.

Given untraceable payment systems, and buttressed with untraceable escrow
systems, a much more efficient approach is simply to hire the killers
untraceably.

And the fluff about "picking the death date" is a side issue, one which
merely makes the whole thing more cumbersome.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From tcmay at got.net  Tue Jan  6 12:50:48 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:50:48 +0800
Subject: Ray Ozzie and the Lotus Notes "40 + 24" GAK Hack
In-Reply-To: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 



At 11:30 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how
>this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented?
>
>Most commercial software simply introduces redundancy in order to limit
>the keyspace to 40 bits, regardless of the advertised length of the key.
>This claim that they deliver 64 bits of key to the customer seems a bit
>bogus.
>
>Of course, they could have done something clever, like generating a
>completely random 64 bit key, and then encrypting 24 bits of it with a
>giant government-owned RSA public key, and including this additional
>information with each message.  However, it seems unlikely that they would
>employ such strong encryption for message recovery, while offering only 64
>bits for message encryption.
>
>Is Lotus Notes encryption documented anywhere?  Are the differences
>between the export and domestic versions disclosed to overseas customers?

Ray Ozzie, founder of Iris, the company which developed Notes and sold it
to Lotus, discussed his "40 + 24" hack a couple of years ago. It was met
with much derision in the community.

(He sent me a nice letter explaining his motivations for the 40 + 24 hack,
but I was of course unconvinced. BTW, my recollection was that they were
trying to get the industry to adopt this as a way of satisfying _domestic_
calls for GAK, not just for export to those dumb Swedes :-}).

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From tozumi44 at msn.com  Wed Jan  7 04:52:58 1998
From: tozumi44 at msn.com (tozumi44 at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:52:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Seeking Environmentally Friendly People ?
Message-ID: <199801072011BAA12986@post.metoc.ns.doe.ca>


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From tcmay at got.net  Tue Jan  6 13:02:22 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:02:22 +0800
Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 11:11 AM -0800 1/6/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:10:49 -0800 (PST)
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>To: fight-censorship-announce at vorlon.mit.edu
>Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98)
>
>[The best policy for the Net is probably no policy, or at most a hands-off
>one. We don't have national "policies" for how we should regulate, for
>example, newspapers or bookstores, and we don't need such policies for the
>Net. On universal service, we already have Internet connections that are
>cheaper than cable TV; on copyright, the safest course is to let federal
>courts decide; on crypto, most agree that the current "policy" is
>misguided at best. --Declan]
>
>***************
>
>    ASSOCIATION FOR COMPUTING (ACM) ANNUAL CONFERENCE
>
>                * * *  POLICY98  * * *
>         "Shaping Policy in the Information Age"
>
>            Washington, DC, Renaissance Hotel
>                    May 10-12, 1998
..

Jeez, don't these Beltway Bandits _ever_ get tired of holding these
bullshit little conferences?

It seems every month or so there's one of these b.s. things.

Must be a way to justify their existence.

"Shaping Policy in the Information Age." Give me a break.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From declan at well.com  Tue Jan  6 13:14:50 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:14:50 +0800
Subject: Rep. Sonny Bono (R-California) dies at 62
Message-ID: 




************

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1670,00.html

The Netly News / Afternoon Line
January 6, 1998
When Sonny Turns to Blue

   Rep. Sonny Bono, a Congressman better known for his songwriting than
   his lawmaking, died yesterday in a skiing accident. He was 62. Bono
   built his show-biz career on being the butt of Cher's jokes and found
   that he played a similar role in Washington, a town where
   self-deprecation is reviled, not admired. Washingtonian magazine once
   dubbed him the dumbest member of Congress, and commentators criticized
   his informal approach to lawmaking on the buttoned-down House
   Judiciary committee, on which the California Republican tackled
   Internet legislation. Early last year he staunchly opposed the FBI's
   demands for increased government snooping power but then backed down.
   He told me in September that at first he had not been "aware" of the
   details surrounding the encryption debate and there are others "we
   have to be concerned about." Bono also sponsored H.R. 1621 and H.R.
   2589, two copyright extension bills currently being considered by
   Congress. --Declan McCullagh/Washington








From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  6 13:35:36 1998
From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:35:36 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980106131052.00745004@popd.netcruiser>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 12:51 AM 1/6/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote:
>I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
>Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
>properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
>domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
>already lost!
>
>Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
>crypto?

InfoWar has always been a critical component of MeatWar.  Knowing who your
enemy is and where he is at makes it much easier to do something about him.
 Intelligence (in the military sense) and the tools to deny it to your
enemy (strong crypto) are of equal importance to weapons.  If you know that
a homicidal Postal Service employee is standing outside your front door and
is preparing to blast it off its hinges and then kill you, this
intelligence will do nothing but raise your blood pressure if you have no
weapons with which to deal with the situation.  (Calling 911 isn't going to
help you much.)  If you own several "assault weapons", but are asleep in
the living room when the door comes crashing down, the lack of intel will
greatly reduce the effectiveness of said weapons.

I have an equation for this:  Effectiveness = Intelligence * Force * Will. 
I define force as the theoretical ability to inflict damage on an opponent,
whether via bad PR, propaganda, lethal or nonlethal weapons, or any other
means.  Force has 2 components:  Materiel and Skill.  Thus, Force =
Materiel * Skill.  (Example:  If I own a riot shotgun and appropriate
ammunition, and have taken it to the range and familiarized myself with its
use, I have the theoretical ability to shoot the aforementioned Homicidal
Postal Employee, but mere ownership of the weapon and skill in its use does
not guarantee that outcome.)  Will is simply the will to fight if
necessary.

Although government will always have a higher Force factor than an
individual or "the cypherpunks" or a militia, it can be possible to achieve
a higher Effectiveness score via higher Intelligence and/or Will factors. 
This is how we lost the war in Vietnam.  We had a much higher Force level
than the VC, comparable Intelligence levels, but a much lower Will ratio
(at least at the upper decision-making levels).  Because of this, our Force
assets were bound under all sorts of bizarre restrictions which hampered
their usefulness, and we ultimately left in defeat.

By disseminating a mechanism for increasing the Cypherpunks Force level
(the Assassination Politics essay) and annoying some IRS agents with a
stinkbomb, Jim Bell increased the government's Will to capture and
incarcerate him.  This is the problem with with terrorism in general (the
OKC bombing is a prime example).

If either Intelligence (the domain of crypto) or Force (the domain of
weapons) is zero, Effectiveness (the real-world ability to inflict damage
or defend yourself from damage) is also zero.  Ignoring either can be
costly.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5

iQA/AwUBNLKd2sJF0kXqpw3MEQJMDACfbGNLIqwE57SxitK5ZDDc/JuWn1YAniO0
MxsO+BZXi+DWL9URMyOj+dzr
=s/B9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Jonathan Wienke

PGP Key Fingerprints:
7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that
feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget
that ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams

"Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people
fulfill their potential."
-- Jonathan Wienke

Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child."

When the government fears the people there is liberty.
When the people fear the government there is tyranny.

RSA export-o-matic:
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org>




Jim Gillogly  writes:
> Eric Cordian says:
> > Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how
> > this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? 
> 
> Lotus produced a "backgrounder" called "Differential Workfactor Cryptography"
> when they first promulgated the 64/40 stuff.  It says (in part):
> 
> 	We do that by encrypting 24 of the 64 bits under a public RSA key
> 	provided by the U.S. government and binding the encrypted partial
> 	key to the encrypted data.
> 
> I haven't seen the USG RSA key -- if it's 512 bits, that would be a humorous
> next factoring target.

It would be humorous to even have the modulus and exponent -- if
someone can obtain them, I'll package it up as a working PGP key, and
give it user id of Spook GAK key , and submit to the
keyservers.  Then we have solved the key escrow implementation
problems for the US government -- anyone who wants to send them a
message can simply add DIRNSA to the list of recipeints.

I don't have a copy of Notes, otherwise I thought this a most fun
exploit to attempt.

The above "solution" to key escrow infra-structure calls from Freeh
etc., should be credited to Carl Ellison; probably others have
proposed it also.  Carl offered to sign some cheif spooks key, if he
would generate one for the purpose, cheif spook declined the offer.

I observed a few times before that now that Lotus have organised with
the NSA to produce such a key, we can do the job of implementing the
voluntary key escrow infrastructure for them.  (It is voluntary
right?)

Adam
-- 
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0






---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:30:57 -0500
From: Ben Isaacson 
To: "'declan at well.com'" 
Subject: Would you consider forwarding this as well?

-->  WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum

More info at http://www.washingtonweb.org and
http://www.interactivehq.org

Interactive Industry Leaders and Top Policy Makers to Meet 
at WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum

	Washington, DC -- With the mounting interest of 
Washington in the Internet, key policy makers and Internet 
industry executives will come together for a strategic 
discussion about the impact of politics on the Internet.  
Sponsored by the Association for Interactive Media, the 
WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum, February 9 and 10, 
1998, is the premier top-level meeting between the 
Washington policy community and the leaders of the new media 
industry.

	"Internet executives and government officials come 
from very different backgrounds.  There needs to be an on-
going dialogue between the users and regulators of this 
powerful medium in order to ensure that businesses may 
continue to grow and serve the public.  The WashingtonWeb 
Internet Policy Forum is designed to facilitate this 
discussion," said Andy Sernovitz, President of the 
Association for Interactive Media.

	Currently, over 300 Members of Congress have co-
sponsored bills regulating interactive businesses.  Federal 
regulatory agencies including the FCC, FTC, NTIA, Treasury, 
Federal Reserve, White House Office of Technology 
Assessment, and the Patent and Trademark Office, are 
considering new legislation and regulation.  Commerce on the 
Net will be forever shaped by the dozens of bills, 
regulations, and policy directives that are already on the 
table.  Participants will have the opportunity to interact 
with the very legislators and regulators who will make these 
decisions.

	A partial list of topics to be discussed at 
WashingtonWeb include:  Pending Legislation and Regulation: 
The Industry Response; Potential Expansion of FTC and FCC 
Jurisdictions; Taxing the Internet; Beltway Wonks vs. Web 
Gurus; Consumer Concerns and Industry Self-Regulation.  
Speakers (to date) include:  Representative Rick Boucher; 
Adam Theirer, Heritage Foundation; Adam Clayton Powell III, 
The Freedom Forum; Pete DuPont, IntellectualCapital.com.; 
Robin Raskin, Editor & Publisher, Family PC Magazine; 
Kenneth Dotson, CBS Sportsline; and Gordon Ross, NetNanny.  
Sponsors include:  Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, Policy.com, 
CNN/Time All Politics, Net Nanny, IntellectualCapital.com, 
and Exodus Communications.

	The WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum will be held 
February 9 and 10, 1998, at the Willard intercontinental 
Hotel in Washington, DC.  

CONTACT:	
Andy Dotson
Association for Interactive Media
202-408-0008
andy at interactivehq.org
http://www.washingtonweb.org




___________________________________________________

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From declan at well.com  Tue Jan  6 14:13:21 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:13:21 +0800
Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto
Message-ID: 



This is for a story for Time on the "new" U.S .Postal Service. I vaguely
recall the USPS trying to set digital signature standards and/or serve as
a CA. I'd like to mention this.

Can't remember the details, though. Does anyone have 'em (or a pointer to
them) handy?

-Declan







From honig at otc.net  Tue Jan  6 15:07:41 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:07:41 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106145505.007b45a0@otc.net>



At 01:10 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Jonathan Wienke wrote:

>InfoWar has always been a critical component of MeatWar.  Knowing who your
>enemy is and where he is at makes it much easier to do something about him.

Yep.  Also, infoWar also includes psychops: propoganda and disinformation.
During WWII, the largest
RF transmitter in the world at the time (a GE 500Kwtt) was used to
dishearten troops, incite civilians,
mislead commanders, etc.  Effectively.  Sometimes it jammed known
broadcasts; sometimes
the PSYCHOPS stations identified themselves correctly, more often they
claimed to be something
they weren't.

When everyone can publish c/overtly, it is harder to control the media; the
trade off is that
consumers have to think to filter.  Not a bad deal.

Orwell was an optimist.




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig at otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	"How do you know you are not being deceived?" 
	---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, 
	Directorate of Intelligence, CIA

















From jalonz at openworld.com  Tue Jan  6 15:21:12 1998
From: jalonz at openworld.com (jalonz at openworld.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:21:12 +0800
Subject: The Digital Society Group
Message-ID: <85256584.007B1AC7.00@openworld.com>




Hi all,

Openworld, Inc. is a company which sets up free enterprise zones around the
world. The "free zones" are akin to Hong Kong and Singapore and are
self-governing, independent entities as recognized by the parent country.

Free zones usually have the ability to issue citizenship, business licenses
and incorporation status to entities as well as have their own police force
and arbitration structure. A lot of them are not nearly big enough to need
that kind of independence, but there are a few.

Free zones rarely have bureacracy, taxes, etc. because the idea is to
create an environment for the rapid creation and deployment of new
businesses. Land is leased for 50-100 years with a parent entity buy-back
at the end of the term.

Can anyone say corporate state? Basically, free zones are corporations (or
groups of) leasing land from a country in order to make it valuable enough
to sell back at a large profit in 100 years. Notice that the emphasis is on
very long-term results. The free zone only makes money if the residents are
happy, educated and making money. Environmental issues are addressed
immediately. There is no bureacracy to hold things back.

I'll be the first to agree that a corporate state is very easy to abuse
(soon the world could end up being a Microsoft corporate state ). But
you have to start somewhere.

Most of these zones are created in third world countries and poorly
developed areas.  Free zones are exempt from telecommunications monopolies
so the bandwidth and connection fees are at regular US wholesale market
rates. When you consider that the economy is moving to be information and
bandwidth dependent, and the main thing holding a new country back is the
cost of a satellite feed, a free zone has enormous impact on the growth of
an area.

It is a bit mind-boggling to realize what the marriage of a free economic
zone and the Internet can accomplish.

Openworld, Inc. is developing drop-in modules for health, education,
business and governance functions for free zones as well as Internet
connectivity and infrastructures.

A division of Openworld, Inc., The Digital Society Group, has been formed
to apply technology to the infrastructure of the free zones and essentially
mirror them in cyberspace .

Without getting into too much detail, The Digital Society Group is
constructing a pure-technology infrastructure to provide for the operation,
governance and existence of a complete digital society within a free
enterprise zone.

My priorities are:

1. encryption for all

2. anonymity for all

3. digital currency for all

4. the ability for the creation of ad-hoc micro-communities by citizens
more or less on-the-fly

5. the ability for any entity - hardware, software, etc. to be a citizen
and be entitled to certain rights such as property ownership,
incorporation,etc. (the legislation is being written right now)

6. do it very, very cheaply and give it to the end-user (the world) for
free.

Check out:

http://www.openworld.com/digitalsociety

Sorry about the sparse web pages and the crappy graphics, but there is no
money for a graphics designer.

Locations are planned for Africa, Southeast Asia, Russia, etc.

We are already coding...

:)
Jalon

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director
The Digital Society Group
A division of Openworld, Inc.

http://www.openworld.com/digitalsociety
jalonz at openworld.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
The government is not your mommy.
---------------------------------------------------------------







From shamrock at cypherpunks.to  Tue Jan  6 16:06:18 1998
From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:06:18 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Adam Back wrote:
> It would be humorous to even have the modulus and exponent -- if
> someone can obtain them, I'll package it up as a working PGP key, and
> give it user id of Spook GAK key , and submit to the
> keyservers.  Then we have solved the key escrow implementation
> problems for the US government -- anyone who wants to send them a
> message can simply add DIRNSA to the list of recipeints.

This would be truly hilarious. Anybody out there with a copy of Notes and
a debugger? :-)

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"






From blancw at cnw.com  Tue Jan  6 16:33:24 1998
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:33:24 +0800
Subject: Digital Societies, Guns, and AP
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980106163317.0068dc1c@cnw.com>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1154 bytes
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URL: 

From hedges at sirius.infonex.com  Tue Jan  6 17:51:40 1998
From: hedges at sirius.infonex.com (Mark Hedges)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:51:40 +0800
Subject: employment opportunity
Message-ID: 




A tech support position's opened at Infonex and the Anonymizer in the San
Diego, California area. The job requires demonstrable unix, typing and
English communication skills. C/C++, Perl, Java/Javascript, system
administration and networking experience are secondary qualifications.
Duties include routine technical support and occasional clerical tasks,
and could include opportunity for future advancement based on skills. Wage
based on skillset. Entry-level position. If interested, fax resume to
619-667-7966 or e-mail to job at infonex.com. 

Mark Hedges
Anonymizer, Inc.
Infonex Internet, Inc.






From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  6 18:20:02 1998
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:20:02 +0800
Subject: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe?
Message-ID: <19980107020417.23803.qmail@hotmail.com>



>
>In article <19980105070034.3946.qmail at hotmail.com> you write:
>> Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because 
it 
>> isn't safe? 
>
>FEAL is dead; I wouldn't ever use it in any new product.
>Use triple-DES instead.
>
What kind of method was FEAL decoded in? 


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Tue Jan  6 19:16:01 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:16:01 +0800
Subject: Police Report Stirs Up Militia Groups
Message-ID: <199801070309.VAA08399@manifold.algebra.com>



Police Report Stirs Up Militia Groups

          (MARTINSVILLE) -- A confidential state police report... which
          looked at the dangers of right-wing militia groups in
          Indiana... is causing a stir among elected officials and
          militia members in Morgan County. While the report discounts any
          immediate threat of terrorist attacks from Indiana militias, it
          does suggest that militia members are getting involved in local
          politics and may have too much influence in some areas. Morgan
          County commissioners think they're the ones referred to in
          the report... and they say they're offended at the implication
          they're controlled by any special interest group.

reuters






From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Jan  6 20:21:49 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:21:49 +0800
Subject: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980107033511.00750ac4@pop.pipeline.com>



The United States Sentencing Commission published in the 
Federal Register today an RFC on changes in sentencing 
guidelines. Here's an excerpt on electronic copyright 
infringement:

. . .

Legislative Amendments

Electronic Copyright Infringement

9. Issue for Comment

    The No Electronic Theft Act, Public Law 105-147, was recently 
enacted to provide a statutory basis to prosecute and punish persons 
who, without authorization and without realizing financial gain or 
commercial advantage, electronically access copyrighted materials or 
encourage others to do so. The Act includes a directive to the 
Commission to (A) ensure that the applicable guideline range for a 
crime committed against intellectual property (including offenses set 
forth at section 506(a) of title 17, United States Code, and sections 
2319, 2319A, and 2320 of title 18, United States Code) is sufficiently 
stringent to deter such a crime; and (B) ensure that the guidelines 
provide for consideration of the retail value and quantity of the items 
with respect to which the crime against intellectual property was 
committed.

    Each of the statutes mentioned in the congressional directive 
currently are referenced to Sec. 2B5.3 (Criminal Infringement of 
Copyright or Trademark). That guideline provides for incrementally 
greater punishment when the retail value of the infringing items 
exceeded $2,000. However, when copyrighted materials are infringed upon 
by electronic means, there is no ``infringing item'', as would be the 
case with counterfeited goods. Therefore, the Commission must determine 
how to value the infringed upon items in order to implement the 
congressional directive to take into account the retail value and 
quantity of the items with respect to which the offense was
committed. The Commission invites comment on how Sec. 2B5.3 (Criminal 
Infringement of Copyright or Trademark) should be amended to best 
effectuate the congressional directives.

    An approach suggested by the Department of Justice is set forth 
below. The Commission invites comment on this and alternative 
proposals.

    Department of Justice Proposed Amendments to Sec. 2B5.3:

    The text of Sec. 2B5.3 is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Base 
offense level: [6]

    (b) Specific Offense Characteristic

    (1) If the loss to the copyright or trademark exceeded $2,000, 
increase by the corresponding number of levels from the table in 
Sec. 2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit).''.

    The Commentary to Sec. 2B5.3 captioned ``Application Note'' is 
amended in Note 1 by striking:

    `` `Infringing items' means the items that violate the copyright or 
trademark laws (not the legitimate items that are infringed upon).'',

and inserting:

    ``A court may calculate the `loss to the copyright or trademark 
owner' in any reasonable manner. In determining `loss to the copyright 
or trademark owner,' the court may consider lost profits, the value of 
the infringed upon items, the value of the infringing items, the injury 
to the copyright or trademark owner's reputation, and other associated 
harms.''.

    The Commentary to Sec. 2B5.3 captioned ``Application Note'' is 
amended by striking ``Note'' and inserting ``Notes''; and by adding at 
the end the following new note:

    ``2. In some cases, the calculable loss to the victim understates 
the true harm caused by the offense. For example, a defendant may post 
copyrighted material to an electronic bulletin board or similar online 
facility, making it easy for others to illegally obtain and further 
distribute the material. In such an instance, it may not be possible to 
determine or even estimate how many copies were downloaded, or how much 
damage the defendant's conduct ultimately caused. In such cases, an 
upward departure may be warranted. See Chapter Five, Part K 
(Departures).''.

    The Commentary to Sec. 2B5.3 captioned ``Background'' is amended in 
the first paragraph by striking ``value of the infringing items'' and 
inserting ``loss to the copyright or trademark owner''; and by striking 
``loss or''.

[End excerpt]

For the full RFC:

   http://jya.com/ussc010698.txt  (254K)







From abc.307 at iname.com  Tue Jan  6 20:51:53 1998
From: abc.307 at iname.com (abc.307 at iname.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:51:53 +0800
Subject: 70% Profit your 1st Day.
Message-ID: <199801062135.e-mail@_tommy.com>



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From ravage at ssz.com  Tue Jan  6 21:18:24 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:18:24 +0800
Subject: Hi-tech anti-terrorism... [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801070542.XAA29574@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>                    GADGET WARFARE: HIGH-TECH ANTI-TERRORISM
>                                        
>      January 6, 1998
>      Web posted at: 9:34 p.m. EST (0234 GMT)
>      
>      From Netly News Writer Declan McCullagh
>      
>      For a country with no real military rivals, the U.S. still manages
>      to find an amazing number of enemies. Terrorists top the list of
>      anti-American villains, according to a Pentagon report released last
>      month.
>      
>      The 100-page document, called "Responses to Transnational Threats,"
>      describes how the military should respond to the threat of saboteurs
>      and bombers aiming for violence, not victory. The solution,
>      according to the Pentagon, is to develop a set of gadgets that would
>      make even James Bond jealous.
>      
>   Micro-robots
>   
>      A spy camera scuttling through the underbrush? Yes, disguised as "an
>      insect, a small pebble, or a stick." The report calls for the
>      development of "micro-robots" that walk or fly and can beam video,
>      audio and infrared signals back to their operators: "These sensors

[deleted text]

>   Sticky electronics
>   
>       Think SpiderMan's spidertracers, only smaller. "Sticky electronics"
>      adhere to a suspected terrorist's clothing, hair, luggage or vehicle
>      and report his location. These almost microscopic gizmos tune in to
>      satellite signals and transmit their exact latitude and longitude.

[deleted text]

>   Bio-sniffers
>   
>      Go lie down, Fido. Soon drug-sniffing dogs may be replaced by even
>      more sensitive, digital noses. If suspects have been handling nukes,
>      biological weapons or high explosives, the military hopes to be able
>      to sniff substance traces from items like passports. "As future

[text deleted]

>      technology is improved, antigens might then be detected at national
>      entry portals as trace contamination on emigration documents or
>      passports, by urine analysis or by other means." Look for companies
>      to use this as a more sensitive (if not more reliable) type of drug
>      testing.
>      
>   The Internet
>   
>       The Net shouldn't be viewed as "a vulnerability." That view "loses
>      sight of many potential benefits," the Pentagon explains. To the
>      spooks, the Net "is an underexploited information-acquisition
>      resource" that "allows for remote and anonymous participation in
>      online 'chat' forums that might provide insight into dissident group
>      activities." (Look out, alt.fan.militia!) The military also wants to
>      create a "secure, transnational threat information infrastructure"
>      -- at a cost of a mere $300 million.
>      
>   Data mining
>   
>      If you worried about the FBI's jones for access to your data, wait
>      'til you find out what the military hopes to do. The Pentagon wants
>      authority to sift through private-sector databases in hopes of
>      tracking down, say, the World Trade Center bombers before they
>      strike. The plan is to incorporate "real-time data on international
>      border crossings, real-time cargo manifests, global financial

[deleted text]

>   Smart software
>   
>      Once you've got the databases, how do you use 'em? The military says
>      the answer is "groupware" and "intelligent software agents" that
>      "can be focused to search for a confluence of events in multiple
>      databases or for goals over time." Consumer marketers will finally
>      be able to determine the commonalities between the Hajj, Promise
>      Keeper gatherings and Burning Man.
>      
>      So would military budgets. In a world where even the Pentagon admits
>      that the U.S. is the only remaining superpower, the defense
>      community argues that terrorism threats justify their budgets.
>      "Nothing will be more challenging to the protection of our citizens,
>      soldiers and our way of life than the threats of weapons of mass
>      destruction and terrorism," General John Shalikashvili, chairman of

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|







From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Tue Jan  6 21:22:52 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:22:52 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106184201.00832180@popd.ix.netcom.com>



Tracking your position in real time is one thing - recording the tracks
is quite another.    The system does need to know, in real time,
the cell for each phone that's currently talking,
and needs to know quickly where any phone that's being called is
(could be implemented either by constantly tracking every phone,
or by sending out requests when the call is made,
probably starting with the usual suspect locations and then
branching out farther, or using some kind of roaming notification.)

But does it need to know where you've been?  It wouldn't be surprising
if the telco recorded location (at least cell site) at the beginning
of each call, to resolve billing disputes with customers,
and of course they record minutes of use and roaming information
for users who make calls outside their home territory.
They probably also record calls per cell site and handoff information,
but probably not by user.

For police purposes, if you want to find somebody right now,
and the cellphone system can only give you precise locations right now,
just call them - "Hey, Suspect!  We know where you are,
and it's costing you money for us to call you and tell you!
Have a nice day!" - and the system knows even if they don't answer.

At 02:42 PM 01/03/1998 +0100, Alexandre Maret wrote:
>If they store the location of your phone every 3 secs, for 6 month,
>this means 5'241'600 locations. Printed on 70 lines/page paper,
>this means 74'880 A4 pages. Do you think they'd be happy to print
>and send you 74'880 pages for 300SFrs ?

They could probably deliver it on industry-standard 9-track tape :-)
5 bytes is enough to locate you within 62m anywhere on Earth
- 16 bits gets you 1km of lat or long on a 40000km planet),
though 4 bytes is probably enough to identify a cell plus
some precision bits since the whole planet doesn't have cell sites.
So it's really only 20-25MB of data per user to track that much data,
and it compresses extremely well (e.g. 1 byte/sample is plenty for
phones that are moving, and run-length coding radically reduces the
location of the phones that aren't moving, which probably
covers 23 hours a day for most people.)  Call it 250KB/day, max?
I'd be surprised if they really kept that much, and the economics are bad,
but they could do it, and they'll be much happier to mail you a floppy
of compressed data for your 300 francs, or print it in very tiny print...

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From alan at clueserver.org  Tue Jan  6 22:07:19 1998
From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:07:19 +0800
Subject: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe?
In-Reply-To: <19980107020417.23803.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106215602.0098b670@clueserver.org>



At 06:04 PM 1/6/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
>
>>
>>In article <19980105070034.3946.qmail at hotmail.com> you write:
>>> Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because 
>it 
>>> isn't safe? 
>>
>>FEAL is dead; I wouldn't ever use it in any new product.
>>Use triple-DES instead.
>>
>What kind of method was FEAL decoded in? 

All of them.

If you take a look at _Applied Cryptography (2nd Edition)_, you will find a
number of different methods that have been used against FEAL.

It seems that whenever someone comes up with a new method of cryptanalysis,
they use it on FEAL first.  (Or at least it seems that way...)

There are much better solutions.  Unpatented ones as well...

---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com|






From snow at smoke.suba.com  Tue Jan  6 22:21:25 1998
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:21:25 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801070720.BAA01765@smoke.suba.com>



> Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been
> working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing*
> in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being
> discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. Yawn.

	You mean things like Onion Routers, Crowds & the like?






From snow at smoke.suba.com  Tue Jan  6 22:22:39 1998
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:22:39 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <199801070718.BAA01750@smoke.suba.com>



> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've

	Tell that to Lincoln, Duke F., Kennedy, &etc. 

	No, we couldn't win thru the overwhelming use of force, but force 
properly applied could at some point prove useful.

> already lost!

	There are some of us who feel that if we "lose", it would be better 
to go down fighting than to live in the kind of world where we can't protect
our privacy with crypto. 
 
> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
> crypto?

	Different realms. Crypto deals with transient/ephemeral(sp?) things
like bits & words & numbers. 

	Arms work in a more physical world of Rapists, Theives, & Dictators. 






From snow at smoke.suba.com  Tue Jan  6 22:26:41 1998
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:26:41 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801070725.BAA01787@smoke.suba.com>



> I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
> a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With maybe
> $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make

	If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. 







From snow at smoke.suba.com  Tue Jan  6 22:39:34 1998
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:39:34 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980106144257.006f0fec@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de>
Message-ID: <199801070729.BAA01812@smoke.suba.com>



> >that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian
> >resistance *can* defeat an occupying army.
> The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in 
> the CP list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is 
> manned by your countrymen at the command of their (and your) 
> government, what then?

	You answered your own question. Fight smarter, not harder. Kill
the brains and the body would follow. 

> This is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I admit I am 
> poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However, my 
> experience of civil war victims (refugees from the E-bloc) suggests 
> that we should be concentrating on social revolution before we tool 
> up for military. There is more to be won, with a potentially much 
> lower cost.

	Any kind of social revolution will be co-opted, destroyed, or 
rendered useless by the people at the top. What it needed is a continuance 
of the technical revolution. 






From snow at smoke.suba.com  Tue Jan  6 22:44:17 1998
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:44:17 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <199801061912.OAA08946@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199801070740.BAA01846@smoke.suba.com>



> #   128bit SSL module distribution *EVEN TO US CITIZENS* due to commerce
> #   department fuckedness.  Anyone know where I could get a copy?  It would
> #   really suck to have to patch the 40bit one into a 128bit version, since
> #   they do not distribute source.
> I don't know if this is the "module" form of the answer you want:
> http://www.replay.com/

	Nope, he wants the AOL SERVER, not browser

>    Tim May wrote:
>>   Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been
>>   working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing*
>>   in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being
>>   discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus.
>    >   Yawn.
> How about moving this list to encrypt its transmissions in
> the recipient's public keys, just to begin encrypting Net traffic?

	At this point, there would be WAY too much overhead on the 3 or 
so servers that make up the cypherpunks mailing list. PGP encrypting every
message sent thru would take up a lot of CPU time.







From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au  Tue Jan  6 23:33:56 1998
From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:33:56 +0800
Subject: Location Escrow anyone ?
Message-ID: 



Hey guys,

I wasn't suggesting that they do record exactly where everyone is
at the highest resolution possible.

Just suggesting that should they want to investigate an individual,
they could do it with pretty high detail.

Though I'm sure they'd record when and where you switch your
phone on, switch off / loose signal, switch cells and make and
receive calls and messages. That wouldn't be all that much data.

Bye for now.






From adam at homeport.org  Tue Jan  6 23:52:05 1998
From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:52:05 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199801070745.CAA29531@homeport.org>



Adam Back wrote:

| The above "solution" to key escrow infra-structure calls from Freeh
| etc., should be credited to Carl Ellison; probably others have
| proposed it also.  Carl offered to sign some cheif spooks key, if he
| would generate one for the purpose, cheif spook declined the offer.

That was Phil Karn to NSA legal counsel at the Computers Freedom and
Privacy conference in Burlingame, 1994 or 1995.  I don't recall
hearing it before that.

Adam



-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume







From kent at songbird.com  Wed Jan  7 00:20:04 1998
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:20:04 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com>



On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote:
> > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
> > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With maybe
> > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
> 
> 	If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. 

That presumes the enemy is dumb.  An amusing fantasy.

-- 
Kent Crispin, PAB Chair			"No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html






From kurtbuff at halcyon.com  Wed Jan  7 00:23:39 1998
From: kurtbuff at halcyon.com (Kurt Buff)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:23:39 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
Message-ID: <01BD1B01.0CBA5FE0.kurtbuff@halcyon.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It balances, or more accurately, they don't.

A second politician died today on the ski slope - Sonny Bono.

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM [SMTP:dlv at bwalk.dm.com]
Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 4:19 PM
To:	cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject:	Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation

Declan McCullagh  writes:

> We have a good story in this week's Time that talks about how the 
ski
> resort had repeatedly asked the Kennedys to knock it off. Including 
the
> night before the accident. Even on the "fateful" afternoon, the ski 
patrol
> had told the Kennedys -- the last on the slopes -- it was time to 
quit.
> "Nevertheless, 36 members of the Kennedy party prepared to play."

"Evolution in action."

Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool.

- ---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 

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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNLMtJw3xegzLXcRmEQKeCwCgsElXKkUb2dzM+N0d2nn8I7fresoAn2yF
fsizimZ5xfume+xLbPvpQCWL
=ZhY3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From kurtbuff at halcyon.com  Wed Jan  7 00:27:40 1998
From: kurtbuff at halcyon.com (Kurt Buff)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:27:40 +0800
Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious]
Message-ID: <01BD1B01.0AF53040.kurtbuff@halcyon.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Nice shot! :)

However, Second Chance is probably the leader of that particular 
pack.

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Trei, Peter [SMTP:ptrei at securitydynamics.com]
Sent:	Monday, January 05, 1998 8:32 AM
To:	'cypherpunks at toad.com'
Subject:	RE: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious]



> ----------
> From: 	Mix[SMTP:mixmaster at remail.obscura.com]
> Reply To: 	Mix
> Sent: 	Sunday, January 04, 1998 10:44 PM
> To: 	cypherpunks at toad.com
> Subject: 	best body armor for cypherpunks [serious]
> 
> What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise)
> body armor for cypherpunks?
> 
After a few years on this list, one develops such a thick skin that
extra protection is superfluos

Peter Trei
ptrei at securitydynamics.c
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From tcmay at got.net  Wed Jan  7 00:33:19 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:33:19 +0800
Subject: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980107033511.00750ac4@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



At 7:35 PM -0800 1/6/98, John Young wrote:
>The United States Sentencing Commission published in the
>Federal Register today an RFC on changes in sentencing
>guidelines. Here's an excerpt on electronic copyright
>infringement:
....
>    (1) If the loss to the copyright or trademark exceeded $2,000,
>increase by the corresponding number of levels from the table in
>Sec. 2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit).''.
....

The upshot of all this "spreadsheet sentencing" is that nearly all of us
have some number of infringing materials, illegal copies, or unauthorized
downloads on our systems.

Or we have more than the allowable number of backup copies of our important
programs. Or even of our unimportant programs.

When the ninja narc raiders cart our computers off for analysis, I'm sure
they can find enough violations to send us away for as many years as they
wish.

Even though I'm not a "warez" trader, or even a software pirate, and even
though I have perhaps foolishly bought many thousands of dollars worth of
now-discontinued and now-unused products ("shelfware"), I am quite sure the
Authorities could find dozens and dozens of violations of these new laws.

Welcome to Amerika.

--Tim May



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From frantz at netcom.com  Wed Jan  7 00:50:54 1998
From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:50:54 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 



At 11:49 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the
>Internet" on the Web.
>
>It describes the weakening procedure as follows.
>
>  "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the
>   full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits
>   of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US
>   National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This
>   encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an
>   additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of
>   this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption,
>   which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption
>   technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only
>   has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power
>   of 24 times easier, to be precise)."

It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you zap
the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop.  Of course the receiver
could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some software
hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







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From: pads at mouse.com (pads at mouse.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:19:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Personalized Mouse Pads
Message-ID: 



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From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Wed Jan  7 06:12:54 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:12:54 +0800
Subject: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Tim May  writes:
> When the ninja narc raiders cart our computers off for analysis, I'm sure
> they can find enough violations to send us away for as many years as they
> wish.

And if Timmy knew a bit more about cryptography than he could learn by browsing
through Bruce Schneier's book, the ninja narc raiders wouldm't be able to find
shit on any of his media. :-)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From emc at wire.insync.net  Wed Jan  7 07:22:28 1998
From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:22:28 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801071516.JAA10807@wire.insync.net>



Bill Frantz writes:

> It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you
> zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop.  Of course the
> receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some
> software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable. 

Yes - I doubt if Lotus Notes has the ability to distinguish between
messages containing ASCII for "FUD" in the workfactor reduction field and
those containing 24 genuine bits of the key in question.  It's probably
a one-instruction patch to disable Big Brother.

As I recall, the LEAF field in Clipper suffered from a similar ability
to be disabled at the user's pleasure. 

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"









From dm0 at avana.net  Wed Jan  7 08:13:07 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:13:07 +0800
Subject: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34B3D211.4148@avana.net>



Tim May wrote:

> Even though I'm not a "warez" trader, or even a software pirate, and even
> though I have perhaps foolishly bought many thousands of dollars worth of
> now-discontinued and now-unused products ("shelfware"), I am quite sure the
> Authorities could find dozens and dozens of violations of these new laws.

On the other hand, it's no longer in vogue to haul people off for video piracy
anymore.  Perhaps we should all stego our monitors & computers into looking
like TV's & VCR's until this blows over.  :-)

--David Miller






From gwb at gwb.com.au  Thu Jan  8 00:50:21 1998
From: gwb at gwb.com.au (Global Web Builders)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:50:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 1998 - the year we must make a stand.
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19980108180000.41efa41c@mail.pronet.net.au>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return the message
in the body of this email (so that we can track your state).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation Supporter in New South Wales,

As Australia moves towards the year 2000 we Australians move into a critical
stage of our history.

A stage which is the culmination of years of deception by the Labor and
Coalition parties leading to the undermining of our democracy.

With a Federal Election in the wind 1998 provides a chance for Australians
to rectify the wrongs of the past. Voting for the major parties will provide
no solutions - only more of the same. However, expect the major parties to
claim that voting for Pauline Hanson's One Nation will be a wasted vote.

They are wrong - tell your friends and make a stand for your children's
future by voting for Pauline Hanson's One Nation.

I am going to cite just one example of many on how you, as an Australian
voter, are being misled by the mainstream political parties. In a word the
subject is 'MAI' an international agreement to which Australia will be a
signatory. MAI is being debated more and more on the Internet through the
World Wide Web.

Here are some web site links on the subject. Please take the time to visit
these sites because they demonstrate how the transnational companies,
through MAI (the multilateral agreement on investment), are bargaining away
your future with senior Canberra-based bureaucrats.

1) ABC interview - full transcript:
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/press/maiabc.html
Extract: 'Sadly there's no catch title for this trade deal. It's called the
Multilateral Agreement on Investment, or MAI. But what it promises holds
more drama. It aims to grant multinational corporations unprecedented powers
over governments. And it's not getting many good reviews.'

and

'In effect, the MAI is a bill of rights for international giants like Shell,
Lockheed, Du Pont, and Arthur Andersen. It prevents governments asking more
of those multinationals than they ask of their own domestic companies. And
any laws that discriminate in favour of locals, such as Australian media
ownership laws, don't fit.'

2) MAI Information Centre (Canada):
http://www.islandnet.com/~ncfs/maisite/homepage.htm
Extract: 'It incorporates a powerful dispute resolution system which would
allow any investor to sue the government of its host nation if it considers
laws or regulations to be discriminatory and detrimental to immediate or
projected profits. The Agreement would therefore disable regional
development and national measures to protect the well-being of people,
create employment, safeguard small business, conserve resources and protect
the environment. Once signed, the MAI cannot be denounced for five years.
Investments under the MAI would remain protected for a further fifteen years.'

The MAI debate is being discussed openly in Canada and New Zealand while in
Australia we are being closeted from this debate by the duopoly which runs
this country's media.

It is a very real issue. An issue that the major parties refuse to bring out
into the open. An issue, amongst many, many others that Pauline Hanson's One
Nation is trying to expose. BUT we cannot do that without your support.

Your vote and those of your friends will be critical to ensure that issues
such as MAI are heard, are questioned, can be rejected by you and I - the
Australian people. Clearly the major political parties have failed in
drawing issues like this out into the public arena for discussion.



Pauline Hanson

PS. If you are able to help with donations to help us fund our candidates in
state and federal elections this year please visit:
http://www.gwb.com.au/pledge.html






From whgiii at invweb.net  Wed Jan  7 10:44:53 1998
From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:44:53 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801071847.NAA28200@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 01/07/98 
   at 12:10 AM, Bill Frantz  said:

>At 11:49 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>>I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the
>>Internet" on the Web.
>>
>>It describes the weakening procedure as follows.
>>
>>  "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the
>>   full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits
>>   of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US
>>   National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This
>>   encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an
>>   additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of
>>   this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption,
>>   which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption
>>   technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only
>>   has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power
>>   of 24 times easier, to be precise)."

>It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you
>zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop.  Of course the
>receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some
>software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable.

Wouldn't it be much better just to not use the crap?!?

Why should we give our money to a company that has shown that they will
sell us out at the first chance of making a buck doing so??

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From whgiii at invweb.net  Wed Jan  7 10:50:27 1998
From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:50:27 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com>
Message-ID: <199801071844.NAA28170@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980107001651.29456 at songbird.com>, on 01/07/98 
   at 03:16 AM, Kent Crispin  said:

>On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote:
>> > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
>> > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With maybe
>> > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
>> 
>> 	If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. 

>That presumes the enemy is dumb.  An amusing fantasy.

The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie
evidence of diminished mental capacity.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:58:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Thu Jan 8 '98
Message-ID: <19980108082356.29649.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Wed Jan  7 11:11:02 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:11:02 +0800
Subject: Fiat's Batch RSA
Message-ID: <199801071855.TAA07264@basement.replay.com>



Batch RSA
invented by Amos Fiat

Described in Crypto 89 and J Cryptology 1997.


RSA works as follows.  The key owner chooses two secret primes p and q,
and forms their product n = p*q.  He then chooses a public exponent e
relatively prime to p-1 and q-1.  His public key is (n, e).

To encrypt a message m into cyphertext c, m is raised to the power e, mod
n: c = m^e mod n.  To decrypt the message, the key holder calculates d
as the multiplicative inverse of e mod (p-1)(q-1): d = 1/e mod (p-1)(q-1).
He recovers m from m = c^d mod n.

For simplicity, below we will write this as m = c^(1/e) mod n, where it
is understood that the 1/e is done mod (p-1)(q-1).

An RSA signature s on a message m is calculated as for a decryption:
s = m^(1/e) mod n.  The signature is verified by m ?=? s^e mod n.

The time consuming part of an RSA decryption or signature is this
exponentiation step.  e can be chosen to be small, so encryption and
verification is fast, but 1/e will generally be about the same size as n,
so many multiplications must be done to raise a number to that power.

Amos Fiat describes a method whereby multiple messages can be decrypted
or signed using only one full-sized exponentiation.  The "catch" is that
the messages must all use different exponents with the same n.

Here is a concrete example.  You want to decrypt or sign two messages,
M1 and M2, raising M1 to the 1/3 power and M2 to the 1/5 power.  Perform
the following steps:

	M12 = M1^5  *  M2^3
	I12 = M12 ^ (1/15)

This is the only full-sized exponentiation needed.  This gives:

	I12 = M1^(1/3) * M2^(1/5).

This is the product of the two values that we want.  Fiat uses a trick
to disentangle the two values.  He raises I12 to the 6th power.  The
number 6 is chosen so that it is a multiple of one of the two
exponents, 3, and is 1 more than a multiple of the other exponent, 5:

	I12^6 = M1^2 * M2 * M2^(1/5)

Therefore:

	M2^(1/5) = I12^6 / (M1^2 * M2)

which is one of the values we need.  Since I12 is the product of the two
values we want, we can recover the other value just by dividing this into
I12:

	M1^(1/3) = I12 / M2^(1/5)


Here is another example.  Suppose we want M3^(1/7) and M4^(1/11).  (Note
that we are using prime numbers for the exponents; the reason will be
explained below.)  We calculate:

	M34 = M3^11  *  M4^7
	I34 = M34 ^ (1/77)

This gives us:

	I34 = M3^(1/7) * M4^(1/11)

Again this is the product of the two values we want.  As before we will
raise this to a power which is 1 more than a multiple of one of the two
exponents (7 and 11) and is a multiple of the other one.  The smallest
such power is 22.

	I34^22 = M3^3 * M3^(1/7) * M4^2

So we can divide to get M3^(1/7):

	M3^(1/7) = I34^22 / (M3^3 * M4^2)

And we can divide to get the other value needed:

	M4^(1/11) = I34 / M3^(1/7)


This illustrates how to derive two RSA roots using only one full sized
exponentiation.  A few small exponentiations are also needed, as well
as two divisions, but these are much faster than doing the full
exponentiation (raising to the 1/15 or 1/77 powers above).

Fiat's idea can then be applied recursively.  Note that in the examples
above we had to take two full-sized exponentiation, M12 to the 1/15 power
and M34 to the 1/77 power.  We can combine both of these exponentiations
into one just as was done above:

	M14 = M12^77 * M34^15
	I14 = M14 ^ (1/1155)

Now:

	I14 = M12^(1/15) * M34^(1/77)

the product of the two values we want.  We need an exponent which is
1 more than a multiple of 15 while being a multiple of 77, giving
615, or vice versa, giving 540.  Choosing the latter since it is smaller
we have:

	I14^540 = M12^36 * M34^7 * M34^(1/77)

so:

	M34^(1/77) = I14^540 / (M12^36 * M34^7)

and dividing gives the other factor:

	M12^(1/15) = I14 / M34^(1/77)

These values can then be fed into the expressions above to recover
M1^(1/3) and the other three values, all with only one full-sized
exponentiation for the four messages.

In general, finding the exponent for Ixx can be handled by the Chinese
Remainder Theorem.  However it requires that the two values be
relatively prime.  That is why the exponents used in Batch RSA must
all be relatively prime, so that there is a solution to the value of
the exponent for Ixx.

As the number of values in the batch increases, the "small" exponents
needed to recover the values increase as well.  We saw above that the
exponents went from 6 and 22 for the size-two batches to 540 for the
size-four batch.  This means that you reach a point of diminishing
returns where increasing the batch size no longer provides much
benefit.  Fiat suggests a batch size of n/(log^2 n) messages, where n
is the length of the full-sized exponentiation (e.g. 1000 for a 1000
bit modulus).  This would correspond to about a 10 message batch for
a 1024 bit key.

Fiat describes a few situations where it may be appropriate to use
different exponents for multiple RSA operations.  In the case of a
server issuing multiple RSA signatures it could define its public key
to be (n, e1, e2, e3,...) and specify that the signature was valid for
any exponent in the list.  Then it could batch up signatures and use a
different exponent for each one.

Another case is "pure RSA" encryption, where the message itself is broken
into blocks and each one is RSA encrypted.  In that case the blocks could
use successive exponents from the list, and the receiver could decrypt
a batch of blocks using one large exponentiation.

There is another case of interest to us, related to the task of
searching through messages from a message pool, possibly
steganographically hidden.  That will be described in another message.






From declan at vorlon.mit.edu  Wed Jan  7 11:14:49 1998
From: declan at vorlon.mit.edu (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:14:49 +0800
Subject: More on Association for Interactive Media conference
Message-ID: 



[This is the conference Tim was criticizing yesterday. --Declan]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:49:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: FC: More on Association for Interactive Media conference

Netly articles on AIM:
  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1155,00.html
  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1464,00.html

-Declan

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:24:20 -0800
From: John Gilmore 
To: declan at well.com, gnu at toad.com
Subject: Re: FC: Association for Interactive Media conference (DC, 2/98) 

[for forwarding if you like]

Note that AIM, the sponsors of the "WashingtonWeb" conference, are the
folks who appear to be paid stooges for Network Solutions in trying to
keep their ten million dollar per month monopoly on domain names.
AIM's coverage of that issue has been completely false and completely
biased ("The Internet is likely to break apart on October 15, 1997";
"you may lose all rights to use your trademark in your Internet
address forever".  See www.interactivehq.org/oic/).

They've been deliberately making false statements to stir up sentiment
against the evolution of domain names away from the Network Solutions
monopoly.

I wouldn't promote or attend their conference.  There's something going
on there that I don't understand -- but I do recognize slime when I see it.

	John Gilmore



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From dm0 at avana.net  Wed Jan  7 11:29:04 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:29:04 +0800
Subject: FCC squeezes the ham TV band
Message-ID: <34B40059.28DE@avana.net>



Wednesday January 7 10:22 AM EST

FCC Reallocates Lightly Used Television Spectrum

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Communications Commission said
Tuesday it had reallocated lightly used television frequencies for use
by public safety services.

Portions of the spectrum between 746 and 806 megahertz that had carried
channels 60 to 69 will be given over to police and fire departments and
other emergency services. The remainder of the spectrum will be
auctioned off for commercial use.

The reallocation was required by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. The
FCC had previously announced it would reallocate the lightly used
spectrum in an April, 1997 plan for the transition to digital
television.

FCC chairman William Kennard said on Tuesday the commission would allow
some users of the high channels to continue operations, however.

"While recovery of unused spectrum is an integral part of the FCC plan
for transition from analog to digital television, I am sensitive to the
effects of spectrum recovery on Low Power TV and TV translators,"
Kennard said in a statement.

Such broadcasters may continue operations through the transition to
digital television "as long as they do not cause harmful interference
to primary services," he said.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright � 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the
prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any
errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance
thereon






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Jan  7 11:47:53 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:47:53 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 11:08 AM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>[This is the conference Tim was criticizing yesterday. --Declan]
>

Just to be more accurate, I was criticising the _sheer frequency_ of such
conferences, with this one just being one of many. And not even the latest
such example, as yet another Washington conference on the Internet was
announced later yesterday.

I just can't understand who attends these things, besides the Usual Suspects.

Maybe we could convince them to all have their confabs on the same day, the
same day Abu Nidal explodes his nuke in Crystal City?

(Or invite the Algerians in for a Hackers Conference? Get medeival on their
asses.)

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From dm0 at avana.net  Wed Jan  7 11:54:59 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:54:59 +0800
Subject: More on Association for Interactive Media conference
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34B406D5.2A9D@avana.net>



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: John Gilmore 
> 
> Note that AIM, the sponsors of the "WashingtonWeb" conference, are the
> folks who appear to be paid stooges for Network Solutions in trying to
> keep their ten million dollar per month monopoly on domain names.
> AIM's coverage of that issue has been completely false and completely
> biased ("The Internet is likely to break apart on October 15, 1997";
> "you may lose all rights to use your trademark in your Internet
> address forever".  See www.interactivehq.org/oic/).

>From the January 5, 1998 issue of Internet Week, page 14:

 "Network Solutions, Inc., which registers domain names
  under an agreement with the National Science Foundation,
  will have the [DNS] agreement extended six months beyond
  its March 1998 conclusion to ensure the stability of the
  system."

--David Miller






From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 11:55:24 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:55:24 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



In truth, I mistyped. Tim not only was talking about the frequency (and I
gather, the danger) of the conferences, he was responding to the ACM one,
not the WW one. 

Now, who attends these things?

1. Journalists
2. Government bureaucrats happy to have a day off from work, who want to
position themselves as "Net-savvy"
3. Lobbyists who bill it to clients
4. Think tank people who hope someone reads their papers

The Naderite "Appraising Microsoft" conference seemed to be populated
mainly by journalists, at some points.

These conferences can be dangerous. If the best thing for the Net is for
DC to leave it alone, that principle leaves no space for Washington
lobbyists who bill by the hour (and through the nose) for their expertise:
pressuring various portions of the government. This is why lobbyists,
including so-called "Net-lobbyists" are not what the Net, and freedom,
need.

-Declan



On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 11:08 AM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >[This is the conference Tim was criticizing yesterday. --Declan]
> >
> 
> Just to be more accurate, I was criticising the _sheer frequency_ of such
> conferences, with this one just being one of many. And not even the latest
> such example, as yet another Washington conference on the Internet was
> announced later yesterday.
> 
> I just can't understand who attends these things, besides the Usual Suspects.
> 
> Maybe we could convince them to all have their confabs on the same day, the
> same day Abu Nidal explodes his nuke in Crystal City?
> 
> (Or invite the Algerians in for a Hackers Conference? Get medeival on their
> asses.)
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






From ravage at ssz.com  Wed Jan  7 12:03:53 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:03:53 +0800
Subject: Polycratic government?...
Message-ID: <199801072025.OAA32052@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

Is anyone aware of research or writings regarding polycratic political
systems?

Thanks.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Jan  7 12:10:47 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:10:47 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 11:50 AM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>In truth, I mistyped. Tim not only was talking about the frequency (and I
>gather, the danger) of the conferences, he was responding to the ACM one,
>not the WW one.

Yeah, I didn't even recall which one I was commenting on. Just too many of
these damned boondoggles.

The only conference recently which as sounded interesting was the one on
"anonymity" down near LA recently...I might have gone, but I don't recall
hearing about it, or being invited. Until it was over, of course.

(I guess it was filled up with journalists, judging from the various
articles which have come out of it. Mostly cheesy articles, Declan's
excepted.)

>Now, who attends these things?
>
>1. Journalists
>2. Government bureaucrats happy to have a day off from work, who want to
>position themselves as "Net-savvy"
>3. Lobbyists who bill it to clients
>4. Think tank people who hope someone reads their papers

Yep. Boondoggles.

But as John G. and Declan and others have noted, these things can do real
damage. By skimming the surface, they are really just platforms for
position advocacy. Whether "conferences" on "ratings," or "Net.porn," or
"anonymity," or whatever, they end up being fora for certain policy wonks
to make their cases. And lazy staffers can then regurgitate the positions
as proposed legislation. (Thus satisfying their quotas, and proving they
are working hard.)

>The Naderite "Appraising Microsoft" conference seemed to be populated
>mainly by journalists, at some points.

Too many fucking journalists. Too many fucking staffers. Too many fucking
bureaucrats, lackeys, satraps, and empire builders.

The whole city, America's imperial city, is corruption on earth. The
Ayotollah had that one right.

--Tim May



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From nobody at nsm.htp.org  Wed Jan  7 12:30:16 1998
From: nobody at nsm.htp.org (nobody at nsm.htp.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:30:16 +0800
Subject: lists
Message-ID: <19980107200049.20317.qmail@nsm.htp.org>



Can someone tell me if the toad cypherpunk list gets *all* the cypherpuink traffic?  As I understand it there are three
possible subscription points -- does one subscription cover
all?

Thanks in advance...








From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 12:38:05 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:38:05 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



YAICIW


January 5, 1998: Information and registration details are now 
available on the Thursday, January 22, 1998 meeting in 
Washington, D.C.: "Internet Domain Name System - gTLD-MoU Information 
Session - An Opportunity to Meet Members of the Policy Oversight 
Committee (POC) and Council of Registrars (CORE) to Discuss Policy, 
Legal and Technical Aspects of the new Top Level Domains". See 
http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/meetings.html#jan22 for information
and registration form.

January 5, 1998: CORE will have a Plenary Meeting on January 21, 23, 
24, 1998 in Washington, D.C.  See 
http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/meetings.html#jan21







From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 12:38:47 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:38:47 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote:

> The only conference recently which as sounded interesting was the one on
> "anonymity" down near LA recently...I might have gone, but I don't recall
> hearing about it, or being invited. Until it was over, of course.
> 
> (I guess it was filled up with journalists, judging from the various
> articles which have come out of it. Mostly cheesy articles, Declan's
> excepted.)

I think I was the only full-time journalist invited to participate. There
were maybe four or so jlists covering it. From the web site:

Attendance at this conference will be by invitation only. About 35
individuals will represent a
variety of backgrounds and perspectives including the computing industry
(such as Internet service
providers, network administrators, and providers of "anonymizing"
services) the legal community,
professional societies, academic institutions, law enforcement agencies,
and other agencies of
government. 

> But as John G. and Declan and others have noted, these things can do real
> damage. By skimming the surface, they are really just platforms for
> position advocacy. Whether "conferences" on "ratings," or "Net.porn," or
> "anonymity," or whatever, they end up being fora for certain policy wonks
> to make their cases. And lazy staffers can then regurgitate the positions
> as proposed legislation. (Thus satisfying their quotas, and proving they
> are working hard.)

Lobbyists need to show they're doing something to justify the money they
grab from corporations (many of which could be doing something better with
this cash, like R&D). Hence they host conferences and attend others.

There are very, very few groups out there that say Washington should take
a "hands off" approach to the Internet. Oh, sure, high tech firms
(including Microsoft) will use it as a good PR line but wait 'til they get
a chance to pass a criminal copyright bill. Even the librarians and
scientists, generally good on issues like content and copyright, spend
much of their time trying to grab more federal dollars. Like the new
federal phone tax the librarians and teachers pushed for: something like
$10-20/year per phone line. 

Then of course there's the religious right and the law enforcement
lobbyists, all of which have their own pet projects and legislation.

There are few groups who are consistently opposed to the government
mucking around with the Internet. Cato Institute, Competitive Enterprise
Institute, and maybe American Enterprise Institute and Citizens for Sound
Economy and the Federalist Society.

Very, very few.

-Declan







From ravage at ssz.com  Wed Jan  7 12:41:30 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:41:30 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801072105.PAA32344@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:30:42 -0800 (PST)
> From: Declan McCullagh 
> Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington

> Attendance at this conference will be by invitation only. About 35
> individuals will represent a
> variety of backgrounds and perspectives including the computing industry
> (such as Internet service
> providers, network administrators, and providers of "anonymizing"
> services) the legal community,
> professional societies, academic institutions, law enforcement agencies,
> and other agencies of
> government. 

This is the real fault with the conference mentality...

How can anyone reasonably expect 35 people, invitation only or not, to have
a clue about any aspect of the industry let alone some sort of birds eye
view?

I would wager that if we took the top 35 ISP's in the US they couldn't come
up with a cohesive expression of viewpoint that would have a lifetime
measured in anything more than a few weeks.

Pure hubris.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From schear at lvdi.net  Wed Jan  7 12:42:11 1998
From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:42:11 +0800
Subject: Debit-card program cancelled because of fraud [FWD]
Message-ID: 



Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 09:22:45 -0500
From: Steve Bellovin 
Subject: Debit-card program cancelled because of fraud

According to the AP, Burns National Bank (Durango, CO) is cancelling its
debit-card program because of fraud.  The article is maddeningly incomplete
about technical details.

Apparently, the "hackers" (to quote the article) counterfeited plastic cards
and "took account number sequences off software that resides on the Internet
before encoding them in the magnetic strip on the back of the card."  When
the fraud was detected, some customers had new cards issued, with some
unspecified extra security feature.  It didn't work; within a month, the
accounts were penetrated again.

Three other banks have been victimized by a similar scheme.  All four use
the same debit card vendor; Burns blames the vendor for inadequate security,
in some unspecified form.  They're looking for a new supplier; until then,
the entire program is being suspended.  Losses to date -- which are
apparently being absorbed by the banks -- total $300,000.







From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 12:43:59 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:43:59 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



YAICIW

(well actually a press conference)

January 7

	1:30 p.m. POLITICS ONLINE - PoliticsOnLine publisher Phil Noble
holds a news conference to release a report on how the Internet was used
in politics last year and prospects for usage this year.
	Location: National Press Club.
	Contact: Willie Blacklow, 301-652-3623.







From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 12:46:09 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:46:09 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



YAICIW

(disclaimer: I am speaking at this one)


                             Cyberjournalism98
    The best and brightest in cyberjournalism will explore the future of
    internet based news and reporting at the Cyberjournalism98 symposium
    on Jan. 8-10, 1998 in Washington, D.C. and jointly sponsored by the
                 National Press Club and the Freedom Forum.
                 
                       For information on exhibiting atCyberjournalism98
contact Yvonne
   Miller at MediaMasters at rocketmail.com For information about attending
        the conference call Euraine Brooks at 703.284.2809 or email
                          ebrooks at freedomforum.org
                          







From billp at nmol.com  Wed Jan  7 12:51:13 1998
From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:51:13 +0800
Subject: Bruce Schneier, Sandia, FBI and the REAL WORLD
Message-ID: <34B3DFB4.6396@nmol.com>

Wednesday 1/7/98 12:57 PM

Bruce Schneier wrote 

    and a burglar willing to try all 10,000 is guaranteed to break 
    into your house.

This is posted at jya.com.

Sandia employees Jack Hudson and Jack Menako, both in my division
when Sandia transferred me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF
[Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA], were TRYING to 
defeat combination locks on file cabinets.

Menako built a frame to connect a stepper-motor to the combination
dial.

The stepper motor was wried to a PC.

Hudson wrote the software to try all possible combinations.

What happened, IN FACT, was that the combination lock wore-out
before the combination which opened the lock was reached.

Combinations locks are NOT ENGINEERED for such heavy use.

The file safe had to be destroyed to open it!

So Schneier's statement may be incorrect.  No guarantee.

Guys, this is the REAL WORLD.

bill

Title: Security Pitfalls in Cryptography









Security Pitfalls in Cryptography

by Bruce Schneier
Cryptography Consultant
Counterpane Systems
e-mail: schneier at counterpane.com

Magazine articles like to describe cryptography products in terms of algorithms and key length. Algorithms make good sound bites: they can be explained in a few words and they're easy to compare with one another. "128-bit keys mean good security." "Triple-DES means good security." "40-bit keys mean weak security." "2048-bit RSA is better than 1024-bit RSA." 
But reality isn't that simple.  Longer keys don't always mean more security. Compare the cryptographic algorithm to the lock on your front door. Most door locks have four metal pins, each of which can be in one of ten positions. A key sets the pins in a particular configuration. If the key aligns them all correctly, then the lock opens. So there are only 10,000 possible keys, and a burglar willing to try all 10,000 is guaranteed to break into your house. But an improved lock with ten pins, making 10 billion possible keys, probably won't make your house more secure. Burglars don't try every possible key (a brute-force attack); most aren't even clever enough to pick the lock (a cryptographic attack against the algorithm). They smash windows, kick in doors, disguise themselves as policemen, or rob keyholders at gunpoint. One ring of art thieves in California defeated home security systems by taking a chainsaw to the house walls. Better locks don't help against these attacks.
Strong cryptography is very powerful when it is done right, but it is not a panacea. Focusing on the cryptographic algorithms while ignoring other aspects of security is like defending your house not by building a fence around it, but by putting an immense stake into the ground and hoping that the adversary runs right into it. Smart attackers will just go around the algorithms.
Counterpane Systems has spent years designing, analyzing, and breaking cryptographic systems. While we do research on published algorithms and protocols, most of our work examines actual products. We've designed and analyzed systems that protect privacy, ensure confidentiality, provide fairness, and facilitate commerce. We've worked with software, stand-alone hardware, and everything in between. We've broken our share of algorithms, but we can almost always find attacks that bypass the algorithms altogether. We don't have to try every possible key, or even find flaws in the algorithms. We exploit errors in design, errors in implementation, and errors in installation. Sometimes we invent a new trick to break a system, but most of the time we exploit the same old mistakes that designers make over and over again.
Attacks Against Cryptographic Designs
A cryptographic system can only be as strong as the encryption algorithms, digital signature algorithms, one-way hash functions, and message authentication codes it relies on. Break any of them, and you've broken the system. And just as it's possible to build a weak structure using strong materials, it's possible to build a weak cryptographic system using strong algorithms and protocols.
We often find systems that "void the warranty" of their cryptography by not using it properly: failing to check the size of values, reusing random parameters that should never be reused, and so on. Encryption algorithms don't necessarily provide data integrity. Key exchange protocols don't necessarily ensure that both parties receive the same key. In a recent research project, we found that some--not all--systems using related cryptographic keys could be broken, even though each individual key was secure. Security is a lot more than plugging in an algorithm and expecting the system to work. Even good engineers, well-known companies, and lots of effort are no guarantee of robust implementation; our work on the U.S. digital cellular encryption algorithm illustrated that.
Random-number generators are another place where cryptographic systems often break. Good random-number generators are hard to design, because their security often depends on the particulars of the hardware and software. Many products we examine use bad ones. The cryptography may be strong, but if the random-number generator produces weak keys, the system is much easier to break. Other products use secure random-number generators, but they don't use enough randomness to make the cryptography secure.
Recently Counterpane Systems has published new classes of attacks against random-number generators, based on our work with commercial designs. One of the most surprising things we've found is that specific random-number generators may be secure for one purpose but insecure for another; generalizing security analyses is dangerous.
In another research result, we looked at interactions between individually secure cryptographic protocols. Given a secure protocol, we show how to build another secure protocol that will break the first if both are used with the same keys on the same device.
Attacks Against Implementations
Many systems fail because of mistakes in implementation. Some systems don't ensure that plaintext is destroyed after it's encrypted. Other systems use temporary files to protect against data loss during a system crash, or virtual memory to increase the available memory; these features can accidentally leave plaintext lying around on the hard drive. In extreme cases, the operating system can leave the keys on the hard drive. One product we've seen used a special window for password input. The password remained in the window's memory even after it was closed. It didn't matter how good that product's cryptography was; it was broken by the user interface. 
Other systems fall to more subtle problems. Sometimes the same data is encrypted with two different keys, one strong and one weak. Other systems use master keys and then one-time session keys. We've broken systems using partial information about the different keys. We've also seen systems that use inadequate protection mechanisms for the master keys, mistakenly relying on the security of the session keys. It's vital to secure all possible ways to learn a key, not just the most obvious ones.
Electronic commerce systems often make implementation trade-offs to enhance usability. We've found subtle vulnerabilities here, when designers don't think through the security implications of their trade-offs. Doing account reconciliation only once per day might be easier, but what kind of damage can an attacker do in a few hours? Can audit mechanisms be flooded to hide the identity of an attacker? Some systems record compromised keys on "hotlists"; attacks against these hotlists can be very fruitful. Other systems can be broken through replay attacks: reusing old messages, or parts of old messages, to fool various parties.
Systems that allow old keys to be recovered in an emergency provide another area to attack. Good cryptographic systems are designed so that the keys exist for as short a period of time as possible; key recovery often negates any security benefit by forcing keys to exist long after they are useful. Furthermore, key recovery databases become sources of vulnerability in themselves, and have to be designed and implemented securely. In one product we evaluated, flaws in the key recovery database allowed criminals to commit fraud and then frame legitimate users.
Attacks Against Passwords
Many systems break because they rely on user-generated passwords. Left to themselves, people don't choose strong passwords. If they're forced to use strong passwords, they can't remember them. If the password becomes a key, it's usually much easier--and faster--to guess the password than it is to brute-force the key; we've seen elaborate security systems fail in this way. Some user interfaces make the problem even worse: limiting the passwords to eight characters, converting everything to lower case, etc. Even passphrases can be weak: searching through 40-character phrases is often much easier than searching through 64-bit random keys. We've also seen key-recovery systems that circumvent strong session keys by using weak passwords for key-recovery.
Attacks Against Hardware
Some systems, particularly commerce systems, rely on tamper-resistant hardware for security: smart cards, electronic wallets, dongles, etc. These systems may assume public terminals never fall into the wrong hands, or that those "wrong hands" lack the expertise and equipment to attack the hardware. While hardware security is an important component in many secure systems, we distrust systems whose security rests solely on assumptions about tamper resistance. We've rarely seen tamper resistance techniques that work, and tools for defeating tamper resistance are getting better all the time. When we design systems that use tamper resistance, we always build in complementary security mechanisms just in case the tamper resistance fails.
The "timing attack" made a big press splash in 1995: RSA private keys could be recovered by measuring the relative times cryptographic operations took. The attack has been successfully implemented against smart cards and other security tokens, and against electronic commerce servers across the Internet. Counterpane Systems and others have generalized these methods to include attacks on a system by measuring power consumption, radiation emissions, and other "side channels," and have implemented them against a variety of public-key and symmetric algorithms in "secure" tokens. We've yet to find a smart card that we can't pull the secret keys out of by looking at side channels. Related research has looked at fault analysis: deliberately introducing faults into cryptographic processors in order to determine the secret keys. The effects of this attack can be devastating.
Attacks Against Trust Models
Many of our more interesting attacks are against the underlying trust model of the system: who or what in the system is trusted, in what way, and to what extent. Simple systems, like hard-drive encryption programs or telephone privacy products, have simple trust models. Complex systems, like electronic commerce systems or multi-user e-mail security programs, have complex (and subtle) trust models. An e-mail program might use uncrackable cryptography for the messages, but unless the keys are certified by a trusted source (and unless that certification can be verified), the system is still vulnerable. Some commerce systems can be broken by a merchant and a customer colluding, or by two different customers colluding. Other systems make implicit assumptions about security infrastructures, but don't bother to check that those assumptions are actually true. If the trust model isn't documented, then an engineer can unknowingly change it in product development, and compromise security.
Many software systems make poor trust assumptions about the computers they run on; they assume the desktop is secure. These programs can often be broken by Trojan horse software that sniffs passwords, reads plaintext, or otherwise circumvents security measures. Systems working across computer networks have to worry about security flaws resulting from the network protocols. Computers that are attached to the Internet can also be vulnerable. Again, the cryptography may be irrelevant if it can be circumvented through network insecurity. And no software is secure against reverse-engineering.
Often, a system will be designed with one trust model in mind, and implemented with another. Decisions made in the design process might be completely ignored when it comes time to sell it to customers. A system that is secure when the operators are trusted and the computers are completely under the control of the company using the system may not be secure when the operators are temps hired at just over minimum wage and the computers are untrusted. Good trust models work even if some of the trust assumptions turn out to be wrong.
Attacks on the Users
Even when a system is secure if used properly, its users can subvert its security by accident--especially if the system isn't designed very well. The classic example of this is the user who gives his password to his co-workers so they can fix some problem when he's out of the office. Users may not report missing smart cards for a few days, in case they are just misplaced. They may not carefully check the name on a digital certificate. They may reuse their secure passwords on other, insecure systems. They may not change their software's default weak security settings. Good system design can't fix all these social problems, but it can help avoid many of them.
Attacks Against Failure Recovery
Strong systems are designed to keep small security breaks from becoming big ones. Recovering the key to one file should not allow the attacker to read every file on the hard drive. A hacker who reverse-engineers a smart card should only learn the secrets in that smart card, not information that will help him break other smart cards in the system. In a multi-user system, knowing one person's secrets shouldn't compromise everyone else's.
Many systems have a "default to insecure mode." If the security feature doesn't work, most people just turn it off and finish their business. If the on-line credit card verification system is down, merchants will default to the less-secure paper system. Similarly, it is sometimes possible to mount a "version rollback attack" against a system after it has been revised to fix a security problem: the need for backwards compatibility allows an attacker to force the protocol into an older, insecure, version.
Other systems have no ability to recover from disaster. If the security breaks, there's no way to fix it. For electronic commerce systems, which could have millions of users, this can be particularly damaging. Such systems should plan to respond to attacks, and to upgrade security without having to shut the system down. The phrase "and then the company is screwed" is never something you want to put in your business plan. Good system design considers what will happen when an attack occurs, and works out ways to contain the damage and recover from the attack.
Attacks Against the Cryptography
Sometimes, products even get the cryptography wrong. Some rely on proprietary encryption algorithms. Invariably, these are very weak. Counterpane Systems has had considerable success breaking published encryption algorithms; our track record against proprietary ones is even better. Keeping the algorithm secret isn't much of an impediment to analysis, anyway--it only takes a couple of days to reverse-engineer the cryptographic algorithm from executable code. One system we analyzed, the S/MIME 2 electronic-mail standard, took a relatively strong design and implemented it with a weak cryptographic algorithm. The system for DVD encryption took a weak algorithm and made it weaker.
We've seen many other cryptographic mistakes: implementations that repeat "unique" random values, digital signature algorithms that don't properly verify parameters, hash functions altered to defeat the very properties they're being used for. We've seen cryptographic protocols used in ways that were not intended by the protocols' designers, and protocols "optimized" in seemingly trivial ways that completely break their security.
Attack Prevention vs. Attack Detection
Most cryptographic systems rely on prevention as their sole means of defense: the cryptography keeps people from cheating, lying, abusing, or whatever. Defense should never be that narrow. A strong system also tries to detect abuse and to contain the effects of any attack. One of our fundamental design principles is that sooner or later, every system will be successfully attacked, probably in a completely unexpected way and with unexpected consequences. It is important to be able to detect such an attack, and then to contain the attack to ensure it does minimal damage.
More importantly, once the attack is detected, the system needs to recover: generate and promulgate a new key pair, update the protocol and invalidate the old one, remove an untrusted node from the system, etc. Unfortunately, many systems don't collect enough data to provide an audit trail, or fail to protect the data against modification. Counterpane Systems has done considerable work in securing audit logs in electronic commerce systems, mostly in response to system designs that could fail completely in the event of a successful attack. These systems have to do more than detect an attack: they must also be able to produce evidence that can convince a judge and jury of guilt.
Building Secure Cryptographic Systems
Security designers occupy what Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz calls "the position of the interior." A good security product must defend against every possible attack, even attacks that haven't been invented yet. Attackers, on the other hand, only need to find one security flaw in order to defeat the system. And they can cheat. They can collude, conspire, and wait for technology to give them additional tools. They can attack the system in ways the system designer never thought of.
Building a secure cryptographic system is easy to do badly, and very difficult to do well. Unfortunately, most people can't tell the difference. In other areas of computer science, functionality serves to differentiate the good from the bad: a good compression algorithm will work better than a bad one; a bad compression program will look worse in feature-comparison charts. Cryptography is different. Just because an encryption program works doesn't mean it is secure. What happens with most products is that someone reads Applied Cryptography, chooses an algorithm and protocol, tests it to make sure it works, and thinks he's done. He's not. Functionality does not equal quality, and no amount of beta testing will ever reveal a security flaw. Too many products are merely "buzzword compliant"; they use secure cryptography, but they are not secure.

Home
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Bruce Schneier
Copyright 1998 Counterpane Systems.




From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 13:10:59 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:10:59 +0800
Subject: Lessig on antitrust and government regulation
Message-ID: 



Lessig is the special master appointed by the judge in the Microsoft
consent decree case. He once wrote:

>Whether a regulation is
>rational turns on the facts, and what counts as "the facts" turns on the
>theory that animates inquiry into the facts.

Wow.

How do we know what theory is the right one, and when we should change it?

-Declan







From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 13:11:17 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:11:17 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



YAICIW

Look for more taxes to pay for rural phone connections


Connecting All
                                Americans for the 21st
                                       Century:
                                 Telecommunications
                                 Links in Low Income
                                 & Rural Communities
                                  February 24-27, 1998
                                  Washington, D.C.

                                 A Policy Conference & A
                                  Practitioners Workshop



                       sponsored by

           United States Department of Commerce
    National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA)

                           &

           The Public Utility Law Project (PULP)
  A Non Profit Public Interest Law Firm Representing Low Income and Rural
                        Consumers







From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 13:13:31 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:13:31 +0800
Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



YAISIW

 Washington, D.C.  - January 6, 1998 - Ira Magaziner, President 
     Clinton's domestic policy development advisor, will outline the U.S. 
     Government position on electronic commerce and reform of the Domain 
     Name System at the Internet Executive Summits in London (on January 
     19, 1998, by video conference link) and Washington (on February 4, 
     1998).  Magaziner has spearheaded the Clinton Administration's
efforts 
     on electronic commerce and has taken a leading role in the U.S. 
     Government's work on privatization of the Domain Name System.
     
     Sally Tate, joint managing director of Prince plc, which is 
     facilitating the Summits, said that "Governments around the world
want 
     the private sector to take the lead to reform and manage the
Internet. 
     The Internet Executive Summits will enable business leaders to have 
     direct participation in formulating the private sector initiative to 
     ensure that the solution will fully reflect its requirements."
     
     A U.S. Inter-Agency Taskforce, set up in April 1997, it is expected
to 
     issue policy recommendations based on responses to a request for 
     comments issued in July 1997 and thousands of pages of emailed 
     recommendations received each week.   Magaziner's team has also had 
     consultations with hundreds of major Internet and telecommunications 
     companies in Washington D.C. in December 1997.
     
     The open door global Internet Executive Summits in London (January 
     19-20, 1998) and Washington (February 3-4, 1998) will help to set the 
     agenda for transition of the current Internet Domain Name and 
     governance systems.  All delegates will be eligible to participate in 
     the reform committees / initiatives formed at the Summits. 
     
     Representatives from all Internet stakeholder groups are expected to 
     attend the Summits including: commercial organizations worldwide, 
     national governments and intergovernmental organizations, law firms / 
     corporate legal departments, Internet consumer groups (including the 
     research and education community), technology companies and Internet 
     service providers (ISP's).






From declan at well.com  Wed Jan  7 13:25:12 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:25:12 +0800
Subject: Governments want to change Net architecture, from Comm Daily
Message-ID: 




>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:44:57 -0800 (PST)
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu
>Subject: FC: Governments want to change Net architecture, from Comm Daily
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu
>Reply-To: declan at well.com
>X-Loop: politech at vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>[Apologies to Art for not forwarding this earlier. --Declan]
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:28:49 -0500
>From: Art Brodsky 
>To: declan at smtp.well.com
>Subject: comm daily story
>
>Declan,
> Here's the story from Comm Daily, Dec. 17
>
>'Optimistic and Damned Silly'
>
>     INTERNET CHANGE FOCUS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
>
>     Law enforcement officials of U.S. and 7 other industrialized
>countries want to make fundamental changes in Internet technology
>in order to aid in their ability to track and catch criminals,
>Justice Dept. sources said.
>
>     Program to consider changes in Internet architectures comes as
>part of agreement announced last week by Attorney Gen. Janet Reno
>and Justice ministers from around world after meeting in Washington
>(CD Dec 11 p10).  However, one leading Internet authority, MCI
>Senior Vp Vinton Cerf, said international group's plan wouldn't
>work.
>
>     Justice ministers are considering approach similar to that of
>Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) program in
>U.S., which would make traffic from advanced telecom networks more
>accessible to law enforcement entities.  Representatives of Canada,
>France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and U.K., as well as U.S.,
>agreed as part of "statement of principles" issued in communique
>following 2-day session that:  "To the extent practicable,
>information and telecommunications systems should be designed to
>help prevent and detect network abuse, and should also facilitate
>the tracing of criminals and the collection of evidence."  Several
>items on "action plan" issued in support of those principles refer
>to working with new technologies to collect critical evidence,
>developing standards for authenticating electronic data for use in
>investigations and encouraging standards-making bodies to provide
>public and private sectors "with standards for reliable and secure
>telecommunications and data processing technologies."
>
>     DoJ officials said Dept. may want to talk later with telephone
>industry on trap and trace issues, but it's premature to involve
>them now in follow-up to international summit.  Instead, they said,
>they are looking at broader picture of telecom networks that
>haven't worked as closely with law enforcement as they could, and
>have begun thinking about Internet protocols.  Internet operates
>globally with common protocols, currently Internet Protocol version
>4.  Internet engineers are working on next iteration, version IPv6
>(Internet Protocol version 6 -- 5 was experimental attempt that was
>dropped).  Justice official said that one problem now is that it's
>easy to send and receive e-mail with false address, called
>"spoofing."
>
>     It would be helpful to law enforcement if information sent
>over Internet were tagged, and packets would transmit information
>reliably as to where they came from, including user and service
>provider, officials said.  Loose analogy would be to compare e-mail
>messages to tagging of explosives, so law enforcement can track
>explosive material to its source.  DoJ said new protocols could be
>designed to make it easier to authenticate messages and to make
>system more reliable.  Law enforcement wants to work with industry
>to accomplish goal, saying it would help "keep people who are
>abusing information technologies from continuing to do it."
>
>     There will be substantial obstacles to law enforcement
>concept, however.  Not least of them is that IPv6 will include
>sophisticated encryption capabilities as part of protocols.  Such
>security isn't built in to Internet now, one of reasons why
>electronic commerce has yet to take off, said Mark McFadden,
>communications dir. for Commercial Internet eXchange Assn. (CIX).
>That feature will make it harder for law enforcement to gain access
>to information, he said.
>
>     Cerf, co-inventor of Internet protocols, said in interview
>that law enforcement's concept of tagging e-mail messages wouldn't
>work:  "To imagine that we would instantly create the
>infrastructure for that throughout the entire Internet strikes me
>as optimistic and damned silly, at least in the short term.  Anyone
>who anticipates using tools to guarantee that everything will be
>traceable is not going to have a successful outcome."  Technically,
>such project could be accomplished, Cerf said, but having
>administrative infrastructure to administer it is quite different
>issue.
>
>     It's possible to have digital signature for every packet of
>data, but it would take "an enormous amount of processing, and it's
>not clear we have any network computers and routers that could do
>that and maintain the traffic flow that's required," Cerf said.  It
>also would require that each sender affix digital signature to each
>piece of mail, idea that Cerf said couldn't be enforced:  "Frankly,
>the idea of trying to guarantee traceability of that kind is far
>from implementable."  He said he didn't want to be misunderstood
>that his objections were "an argument in favor of criminality."
>But Cerf said he worries that "someone relies on what they think is
>a technical solution without recognizing all of the administrative
>mechanics that need to be put in place."
>
>     Law enforcement has some time to work with Internet community.
>McFadden said IPv6 isn't scheduled to be implemented at consumer
>level for at least 5 years, possibly as much as 10.  There was some
>urgency when it appeared that reservoir of Internet addresses would
>dry up, but with progress being made to protect addresses as scarce
>resource there's less pressure for new set of protocols, he said.
>
>
>posted with permission Warren Publishing
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
>To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
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From brian at hypersoft.net  Thu Jan  8 06:07:16 1998
From: brian at hypersoft.net (Brian@HyperSoft.Net)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:07:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
Message-ID: 


UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE






From brian at csihost.4qsi.com  Thu Jan  8 06:07:35 1998
From: brian at csihost.4qsi.com (bRIAN@4qsi.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:07:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
Message-ID: <9801080907.ZM10801@csihost.4qsi.com>


UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE





From ravage at ssz.com  Wed Jan  7 16:11:05 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:11:05 +0800
Subject: Ruby Ridge FBI sniper to stand trial [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801080032.SAA00252@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>                  FBI SNIPER TO STAND TRIAL IN RUBY RIDGE CASE
>                                        
>      FBI seal January 7, 1998
>      Web posted at: 6:32 p.m. EST (2332 GMT)
>      
>      BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (AP) -- A judge Wednesday ordered an FBI
>      sharpshooter to stand trial on a state manslaughter charge for the
>      death of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife in the 1992 siege at
>      Ruby Ridge.
>      
>      The U.S. Justice Department decided in 1994 against prosecuting Lon
>      Horiuchi and upheld the decision last year after a long review. But
>      in August, Boundary County Prosecutor Denise Woodbury filed a charge
>      of involuntary manslaughter.
>      
>      Magistrate Judge Quentin Harden decided there was probable cause to
>      bring Horiuchi to trial on the state charge. Harden scheduled a
>      February 13 arraignment before state Judge James Michaud.
>      
>      A federal judge is to hear arguments Monday from Horiuchi's lawyers
>      in Boise that the case should be transferred to federal court.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From guy at panix.com  Wed Jan  7 16:23:11 1998
From: guy at panix.com (Information Security)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:23:11 +0800
Subject: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement
Message-ID: <199801080008.TAA03811@panix2.panix.com>



   >   Subject: Re: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement
   >   From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
   >   Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 08:09:32 EST
   >   
   >   Tim May  writes:
   >   > When the ninja narc raiders cart our computers off for analysis, I'm sure
   >   > they can find enough violations to send us away for as many years as they
   >   > wish.
   >   
   >   And if Timmy knew a bit more about cryptography than he could learn by browsing
   >   through Bruce Schneier's book, the ninja narc raiders wouldm't be able to find
   >   shit on any of his media. :-)

Hey, Vulis, how does it feel to know all your phone lines
are being monitored by the FBI? For (among other things):
soliciting funds for terrorist groups incl Hamas to kill
a couple, and threatening government employees...
---guy

    Lon T. Horiuchi was indicted for murder today.
    The DOJ refused to prosecute him: the state will.






From jalonz at openworld.com  Wed Jan  7 16:34:25 1998
From: jalonz at openworld.com (jalonz at openworld.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:34:25 +0800
Subject: The Digital Society Group
Message-ID: <85256585.00837DB3.00@openworld.com>




>>Without getting into too much detail, The Digital Society Group is
>>constructing a pure-technology infrastructure to provide for the
operation,
>>governance and existence of a complete digital society within a free
>>enterprise zone.
>The web site doesn't explain what methods you are using to establish these
>zones.   Do you have a mailing list set up for discussion?   The plan
>sounds interesting and ideologically supportable, but I'm skeptical.

Blanc,

I'm trying to get more docs online ASAP to explain things.

The physical free zones are very popular in the interational business
world, but I as a computer type had never heard of them other than Hong
Kong, etc.

When a country wants to set up a free zone, they come to Openworld and its
partner companies who do everything from clearing land, construction,
setting up businesses, schools, hospitals, etc. One of the soon to be
required components of a free zone installation is a digital infrastructure
to link all of the things together. We're talking smart cards for physical
structure security and personal ID, email, web hosting, net access, all
kinds of stuff.

Since we are building a "country" from scratch, rather than have to
automate paper workflows and do document management, the governance
processes are designed to be digital from the start.

Thus, to provide incorporation services to its citizens, a free zone allows
them to sign up via web browser, and the daily maintenance, processing and
management of the corporate records is also done almost exclusively via web
browser and email. Its fast, cheap, and requires far less labor than a
paper-based system. Another feature is that rather than maintaining the
records for the customer, the customer can log in via web browser and
update their own corporate record. (similar to Internic) This reduces labor
even further and reduces the cost of incorporation to around $100 per year
making instant offshore incorporation accessible to the general global
public for the first time.

That kind of solution applied across an entire governance and
communications infrastructure make for some radical things to become
possible.

Another concept being implemented is that each new free zone (being fully
wired) can easily replicate records and data with other free zones (they
will actually be required to for certain things) and thus a citizen in one
free zone can access banking, etc. services (even physical access) in
another. So, we see the emergence of a phsically distributed, digitally
cohesive network of "corporate states".

This lends to applications like data protection and hiding via distributed
storage or data sharing via common dataspaces and replication.

The technical methods to perform all of this work are a bit touchy. At the
risk of starting endless flame wars, I was looking at Lotus Bloats for its
replication and hierarchical security structure as well as easy forms to
web publishing and workflow management. That got shot down at the thought
of actually administrating the mess and also the costs are fairly
significant. The final nail in the coffin was the encryption key escrow
fiasco with the Swiss.

I was also looking at NT due to the nice database-to-web interface and the
fact that IIS 4 isn't too bad. But again software license costs are large
and who knows if Microsoft is doing, or will do, a key escrow deal for
future products? Who knows what they are doing now with NT on the OS level?

You can't run around making structures which allow people around the world
to move money and communicate anonymously, incorporate and have software
agents be owners of property and bank accounts without someone getting very
pissed off.

Thus, a good solution seems to be Linux in that its cheap, Unix is good for
multi-process routing, and the toolkits and components created by the
Digital Society can be easily moved into the public domin in some form or
another. Also, the export mess can be gotten around in one way or another.

Any comments? Any better alternatives than Linux?

The coding being done now is either cross-platform or prototype which will
be scrapped as soon as the kinks are worked out and the real fun can begin.

The Digital Society is purposefully working cheap and small to enable the
tools and communities to be deployed at as close as possible to no cost for
the end-user - that is the priority.

Most things are being coded from scratch to ensure security and keep the
costs low. Labor is cheap - when its your own.


:)
Jalon

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director
The Digital Society Group
A division of Openworld, Inc.

http://www.openworld.com/
jalonz at openworld.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
The government is not your mommy.
---------------------------------------------------------------







From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Wed Jan  7 16:37:42 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:37:42 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801080006.AAA00669@server.eternity.org>




Bill Frantz  writes:
> 
> [lotus notes 24+40 GAK design]
> 
> It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you zap
> the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop.  Of course the receiver
> could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some software
> hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable.

Well if that were all they were doing you could just fill it with
random numbers, or encrypt the wrong 24 bits of random data with the
NSA's public key, etc. and the receiving software couldn't tell
without access to DIRNSA's private GAKking key.

However, I figure that they could do this... encrypt to the recipient
and include in the GAK packet the RSA padding used to encrypt the 24
bits.

The recipient gets the 24 bits anyway because he can decrypt the main
recipient field; with the padding he can re-create the RSA encrypted
GAK packet.

Not that we want to help the GAKkers or anything :-)

Still as you say even that would likely be a single byte patch or
whatever to skip the test.

Also as William notes, don't use the crap -- it's only 64 bits anyway
even for non-export version, and their reputed motives in smoothing a
path to domestic GAK, and even in buying into the KRAP program might
be enough to move some to boycott them even if there crypto key sizes
were reasonable, which they are not.

Adam
-- 
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: <199801072324.XAA00540@server.eternity.org>




Bill Payne  writes:
> Bruce Schneier wrote 
>
>    and a burglar willing to try all 10,000 is guaranteed to break 
>    into your house.
> 
> Sandia employees Jack Hudson and Jack Menako, both in my division
> when Sandia transferred me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF
> [Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA], were TRYING to 
> defeat combination locks on file cabinets.
> 
> Menako built a frame to connect a stepper-motor to the combination
> dial.
> 
> The stepper motor was wried to a PC.
> 
> Hudson wrote the software to try all possible combinations.
> 
> What happened, IN FACT, was that the combination lock wore-out
> before the combination which opened the lock was reached.
> 
> Combinations locks are NOT ENGINEERED for such heavy use.

Interesting.

When I was at [x] they had (and still do I think, hence obscuring
name!) 0-9 digit key pad combination locks.  I noticed by just
casually using various permutations each time I used the locks that
there was something anomalous about the way the key pads worked.  If
the code was 6789 you could get in by typing 56789, or by typing
456789 etc.

Clearly this gives you almost a 4 x reduction in the search space.

So I hacked up some code to compute the minimal universal door entry
sequence number.  Joy of joys the "universal code" as it was dubbed
fitted easily on 1/2 a sheet of A4 paper at 66 lines by 80 characters
per line, and we figured (myself and entertained colleagues) with
semi-covert experimentation that with a bit of practice you could
break a lock in around 10 mins manually or something like that.  It
looked quite esthetically pleasing also.

The sequence looked something like this:

01234567890124568902346780...

which would try combinations in this sequence:

0123
1234
2345
3456
4567
5678
6789
7890
8901
9012
0124
1245
2456
4568
5689
6890
8902
9023
0234
2346
3467
4678
6780
...

I was not able to do it quite the theoretical minimal number of
permutations of 2503, but it was only 3 or 4 extra digits I think.  I
am not sure if you could do better than this, but it was a
computational trade off, my algorithm was recursive, and back tracked
as it was; I just chopped it off and demanded best solution after 1
hours CPU or whatever.

I might have the universal code and source code around somewhere,
can't lay my hands on it right now.

We dubbed this sheet of paper the "universal door code", and
considered pinning it beside the lock :-)

These locks looked pretty cheap, and didn't suffer the mechanical
failure problem you describe, we probably gave them enough stress
testing in our semi-covert experiments.

Also it occurs to me that a duty cycle of 10k operations isn't that
high.  I am left wondering if perhaps you were pushing the units too
hard -- would you have been able to break the lock before mechanical
failure if you had slowed the rotation rate of your mechanical dial
turner?  Also, perhaps your mechanical setup was too rough, putting
abnormal strain through clunky motion or something?


Also, in fact these 0-9 digit 4 digit locks at [x] I think had other
problems also, under certain circumstances you were able to type a
spurious digit between the digits of the 4 digit code (eg code is
1234, typing 15234 would let you in!)  If we had been able to find a
rule governing this behaviour, an even shorter universal code would
have been obtainable.  However it seemed erratic, and interest waned
around this point somewhere.

They also had a few hex versions with 0-9A-F and 4 digits, which I
also calculated a universal code for.  They seemed not vulnerable to
the spurious digit flaw described in the above paragraph of the 0-9
units.

Adam
-- 
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0


UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE





From honig at otc.net  Wed Jan  7 17:33:41 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:33:41 +0800
Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40>



	
at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm
you can test your critical thinking skills...



------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig at otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	"How do you know you are not being deceived?" 
	---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, 
	Directorate of Intelligence, CIA

















From guy at panix.com  Wed Jan  7 18:11:51 1998
From: guy at panix.com (Information Security)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:11:51 +0800
Subject: The Digital Society Group
Message-ID: <199801080202.VAA11825@panix2.panix.com>



   >   From: jalonz at openworld.com
   >   To: cypherpunks at toad.com
   >   Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:24 -0500
   >   Subject: The Digital Society Group
   >   
   >   Hi all,

Hi, stranger.

   >   Openworld, Inc. is a company which sets up free enterprise zones around the
   >   world. The "free zones" are akin to Hong Kong and Singapore and are
   >   self-governing, independent entities as recognized by the parent country.
   [snip]
   >   A division of Openworld, Inc., The Digital Society Group, has been formed
   >   to apply technology to the infrastructure of the free zones and essentially
   >   mirror them in cyberspace .
   >   
   >   Without getting into too much detail, The Digital Society Group is
   >   constructing a pure-technology infrastructure to provide for the operation,
   >   governance and existence of a complete digital society within a free
   >   enterprise zone.
   [snip]
   >   Locations are planned for Africa, Southeast Asia, Russia, etc.
   >   
   >   We are already coding...
   >   ---------------------------------------------------------------
   >   Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director
   >   The Digital Society Group
   >   A division of Openworld, Inc.

Firing up the DejaNews traffic analysis tool...

    Jalon Q. Zimmerman:
    
    sneaker at powergrid.electriciti.com
    jalonz at compuvar.com
    jalon at ix.netcom.com
    jalonz at datacore.compuvar.com
    jalonz at morava.com
    jalon at hermesnet.net

#   Subject:      I need a challenge!!
#   From:         "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" 
#   Date:         1995/06/19
#   Newsgroups:   misc.jobs.resumes
#   
#   I'm bored with the usual run-of-the-mill jobs and am looking for a
#   challenge.  I want to solve problems, find solutions, and create
#   things with computers.
#   
#   My background is in programming/computer security and I have a
#   strong creative talent.
#   
#   My dream is to work in the R&D environment where I can be given
#   a problem/idea and turned loose.

Good boy. Good boy. Stop slobbering on the carpet...

 
%   Subject:      ENTERTAINMENT: The CyberGuy Project
%   From:         jalonz at compuvar.com (Jalon Q. Zimmerman)
%   Date:         1995/10/23
%   Newsgroups:   comp.infosystems.www.announce
%    
%   Follow the crazed wanderings of a technomad. Announcing the CyberGuy
%   Project. The first fully functioning guy, with a real job, and a real
%   life, living with a laptop, a duffel bag full of stuff and the wide,
%   wide world as his home...
%    
%    [defunct]

Word: "Technomad". Like it.

#   I am moving.  1995/09/27

Moving from San Diego to...

 
#   Subject:      Columbus, Ohio - webheads netnerds arthackers wanted!
#   From:         jalon at ix.netcom.com (Jalon Q. Zimmerman)
#   Date:         1996/04/08
#   Newsgroups:   oh.general,alt.cyberpunk,alt.rave,alt.2600
#    
#   I'm looking for webheads, netnerds and arthackers in the Columbus area
#   to form an unstructured group and get a hangout going somewhere in a
#   Columbus coffee-house or something like that.
#    
#   The idea is to throw a bunch of people and some resources together and
#   see what happens.
#    
#   I have just moved to Columbus from San Diego where this type of thing
#   is a necessity for modern cyberpeople. Since I can't find anything
#   here, I thought I'd get it going myself.
#    
#   If you are interested, mail me and we'll make it happen.

Columbus "4DeadIn" Ohio.

%   Subject:      Looking for investor wishing to start an internet provision company in Columbus
%   From:         "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" 
%   Date:         1996/01/16
%   Newsgroups:   cmh.general
%    
%   I am looking for an investor wishing to start an Internet presence or
%   service provision company in the Columbus, Ohio area.  I have just
%   relocated from San Diego, Ca. and am interested in contributing the
%   "technical" element to a start-up venture.
%    
%   Please contact Jalon Zimmerman at: 614-873-4250
%    
%   Serious inquiries only.

Mooer.

#   From:         "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" 
#   Date:         1996/10/20
#   Newsgroups:   alt.mud.moo
#    
#   Hello,
#    
#   We are looking to sponsor a moo or some variation thereof as well as a
#   rather serious Mxx-related website for the sheer coolness of it.


Headhunter:

        Date   Scr        Subject                 Newsgroup            Author
 
   1. 96/07/19 020 Corporate salespeople wanted sdnet.jobs            Jalon Q. Zimmerman
   2. 96/07/19 020 Interns wanted - marketing/P sdnet.jobs            Jalon Q. Zimmerman
   3. 96/07/19 020 Corporate sales - Internet r sdnet.wanted          Jalon Q. Zimmerman
   4. 96/07/19 020 Corporate salespeople wanted sdnet.jobs.offered    Jalon Q. Zimmerman
   5. 96/07/19 020 Re: Corporate salespeople wa sdnet.jobs            Jalon Q. Zimmerman
   6. 96/07/19 020 Re: Corporate salespeople wa sdnet.jobs            Jalon Q. Zimmerman
   7. 96/07/19 020 Interns wanted - marketing/P sdnet.jobs.offered    Jalon Q. Zimmerman

   ...moved to DC/Maryland...

#   Subject:  Exciting Internet jobs in growing DC & MD business: Programming,
#             Graphics Design, Web Page Design, Customer Service, and More!
#             Full-Time and Contractual positions saught.
#   From:         Cool Internet Jobs 
#   Date:         1997/03/13
#   Newsgroups:   dc.jobs,md.jobs,balt.jobs,misc.jobs.offered,us.jobs.offered,
#                 biz.jobs.offered,prg.jobs,comp.jobs.contract,misc.jobs.contract
#    
#   On May 1, 1997, Hermes Internet Service, Inc. will be opening a second
#   office in Landover, Md., which is located at the intersection of US 50
#   and the DC Beltway and walking distance to the New Carrollton Metro
#   (Orange Line).
#   
#   We will continue to use our current location as well, near 7th Street
#   and Maine Ave., SW, DC, near the waterfront.
#    
#   We have openings for four additional people, the first immediately, the
#   other three on May 1:


Resume (snipped):

#   Subject:      html/CGI/db online inet apps - VB/MS Access - Linux/Postgres95
#   From:         "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" 
#   Date:         1995/06/25
#   Newsgroups:   misc.jobs.resumes
#   
#   DIGICOM
#    
#   Developing an HTML interface to telephone conferencing hardware for Logicon, a
#   defense contractor.  Group telephone conferencing can be managed from any HTML
#   browser via a LAN or the internet.  The system incorporates user accounting,
#   document sharing within a conference, graphical icons and elements including
#   photographs of the group participants, secure html interfacing, support for voice
#   encrypted lines.  Each server handles 32 simultaneous queries and 32 phone lines.
#   The application is written in Visual Basic using Winsock 1.0 sockets, MS Access
#   database tables, HTML 3.0, and MS Visual C++ DLLs.
#   
#    
#   CREDIFAX INFORMATION SERVICES
#    
#   Designed and implemented an automated credit information retrieval and analysis
#   solution.  The system automated the office workflow, paper trail, billing, and
#   communications.  The final solution utilized an in-house client-server scheme for
#   communications, a Paradox for Windows database platform, and an automated  credit
#   retrieval and analysis application in C++.  Communications servers were run on OS/2,
#   database platforms on Windows, and high-speed credit analysis under DOS. This was
#   the second generation of the system developed at Credit Depot earlier.
#   
#   SAN DIEGO COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT
#    
#   Designed a statistical analysis solution to track the usage of learning resources on
#   campus.  Authored several encryption and security applications.
#   
#   SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
#    
#   Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal
#   investigations.  Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased data,
#   password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry.

Isn't that last item special?

---guy

   And a possible reason for heading the other way.






From olejac at post4.tele.dk  Thu Jan  8 10:25:42 1998
From: olejac at post4.tele.dk (Ole Jacobsen)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:25:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
In-Reply-To: <9801080907.ZM10801@csihost.4qsi.com>
Message-ID: <34B50B55.4F04@post4.tele.dk>


bRIAN at 4qsi.com wrote:
> 
> UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE

remove me (olejac at post4.tele.dk or mlj at earthling.net) from the list too.

thanks, martin.







From emc at wire.insync.net  Wed Jan  7 18:34:09 1998
From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:34:09 +0800
Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40>
Message-ID: <199801080230.UAA11585@wire.insync.net>



David Honig wrote:

> at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm
> you can test your critical thinking skills...

Clearly everyone in this company is on crack. :)

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"






From anon at anon.efga.org  Wed Jan  7 19:02:54 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:02:54 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <2257f75e9d4378c573ebe49c9a1d7acc@anon.efga.org>



               Creative Insecurity 
               The complicated truth behind the rise of Microsoft 

               By Virginia I. Postrel 

               Back in 1983, Forbes ran an article called "If they're so smart,
               why aren't they rich?" It was about how inventors rarely reap
               big financial rewards from their creations, and it started like
               this:

               "Here are some names you are not likely ever to see in The
               Forbes Four Hundred [list of the richest Americans]: Franklin
               Lim. Gary Kildall. Bill Gates...."

               Oops.

               The world's richest man wasn't always so. During the last
               round of high-tech excitement--the personal-computer boom of
               the early 1980s (which was followed by a traumatic
               shakeout)--Gates looked like a smart programming geek whose
               business savvy was dwarfed by the marketing whizzes at
               Apple: "Their Apple Corp.," wrote the anonymous Forbes
               author, "has been among the most successful at packaging a
               product that sells and then selling it at an attractive price."

               Therein lies a tale. As the Justice Department and a half-dozen
               state attorneys general push forward antitrust actions against
               Microsoft, it's worth considering how the company got where it
               is and what that suggests about the strengths and limitations of
               markets.

               There are two main fables told about Microsoft: It has become
               the dominant, standard-setting software company, and made
               Gates a multibillionaire, because a) it makes wonderful
               products and expresses all that is good about a capitalist
               system or b) it cheats. Both fables turn up especially strongly in
               statements by people who lack deep knowledge of the
               industry, and each serves the interests of an industry faction.

               The truth, however, is more complicated. Considered without
               regard to price, ubiquity, or compatibility with inexpensive
               hardware, many Microsoft products are mediocre at best. I am
               happily writing this article using an obsolete Macintosh
               operating system and WordPerfect, both of which I find
               superior to even the latest versions of Windows and Word.
               Great products did not make Microsoft number one.
               Good-enough products did.

               That uncomfortable truth offends moralists on both sides of the
               Microsoft debate. The company's fans (and its spin doctors)
               want to tell a simple tale about virtue triumphant--with virtue
               defined, Atlas Shrugged-style, not only as astute business
               decision making and fierce competition but also as engineering
               excellence. Its critics use the same definition. If the products are
               less than great, they suggest, the only way to explain the
               company's success is through some sort of sleaze. Or,
               alternatively, through the innate flaws of the market.

               So what really happened? How did Microsoft end up ruling PC
               operating systems and, through them, software in general?

               At the risk of simplifying a complex story (if only by reducing
               it to two players), the bottom line is this: Apple acted--and
               continues to act--like a smug, self-righteous monopolist.
               Microsoft acted--and continues to act--like a scrambling,
               sometimes vicious competitor.

               That pattern shows up most clearly in pricing strategies.
               Microsoft's approach, throughout its history, has been to charge
               low prices and sell an enormous amount of software. True to
               form, the company is currently in trouble with the Justice
               Department for charging too little--nothing--for its Internet
               Explorer, by including it in Windows. (The technical legal
               dispute is over whether Explorer is a "feature" of Windows, as
               Microsoft maintains, or a separate product that is an illegal
               "tie-in" and thus violates a consent decree Microsoft signed in
               1995.)

               The low-price strategy makes sense on two levels: First, it
               approximates marginal-cost pricing, since software, once
               written, costs very little for each additional copy. Anything
               above that incremental cost, however small, is profit. Second,
               and more significantly in this case, lower prices mean more
               customers. And the more people who use a particular kind of
               software, the more desirable it is for others to use it too.
               Although translators help, switching formats is messy and
               inconvenient. This "network externality" is particularly
               important for operating systems and Internet browser formats,
               since software developers and Web site designers have to pick
               a standard for which to optimize their products.

               As Gates toldWall Street Journal reporter Jim Carlton in an
               interview for Carlton's new book Apple: The Inside Story of
               Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders, "Momentum
               creates momentum. If you have volume, then people write
               apps. If people write apps, you have momentum."

               But if you think you already have a monopoly, you don't
               worry about momentum. While Apple executives theoretically
               knew they had competition, they acted as though they didn't.
               Back in 1983 Apple may have been "selling [its computers] at
               an attractive price." But the coming of the IBM clones made
               Apple's prices look downright hideous. In the face of
               ever-stronger competition, the company insisted on pricing the
               Macintosh to maintain at least 50 percent profit margins; its
               "50-50-50 rule" told managers to keep margins up to maintain
               the stock price.

               Customers who paid their own personal money for Macs might
               be able to justify the high price simply because the computers
               were fun and easy to use. But business managers who paid
               Apple prices for any but the most specialized applications,
               notably graphics-intensive work, were either fiscally
               irresponsible or just plain dumb. Apple's pricing strategy
               handed the vast business market to computers running
               Microsoft operating systems, first DOS, then Windows.

               Microsoft, of course, doesn't sell computers. It's in the software
               business. You can get its operating system (and run its
               applications) on all sorts of different machines, whose
               manufacturers compete intensely. That competition drives
               down consumer costs, even as machine features get better all
               the time.

               Apple didn't want that sort of competition. It not only kept its
               own prices high but refused to license its software to any other
               computer maker. That meant even fewer people used its
               operating system, which further dampened its momentum.
               Apple, in fact, acted like the ultimate "tie-in" monopolist. You
               not only couldn't buy parts of its software separately; you
               couldn't buy them at all without forking over thousands for an
               Apple-made machine. And Apple has never been particularly
               good at manufacturing.

               After the company tepidly began licensing a couple of years
               ago, Mac clone makers did what Apple had feared: They cut
               into its revenue. But they also expanded the market, and they
               made the fastest computers ever to carry the Mac operating
               system. They gave Apple money for its software, even as they
               bore the costs of manufacturing and distributing their
               machines. And they gave consumers more choice, more
               alternatives to Windows. If I were an antitrust regulator
               looking for conspiracies, I'd be wondering just how
               coincidental it was that Microsoft invested $150 million in
               Apple just about the time Steve Jobs announced that the
               company was ending the clone program.

               Such explanations aren't necessary, however. Apple screwed
               Mac lovers all by itself. Far from the marketing whizzes of 1983
               conventional wisdom, its executives were enamored with the
               cult of the machine, too hung up on the beauty of their product
               to understand that consumers actually cared about many other
               things: price, plenty of software, and compatibility with other
               systems. Quality is not one-dimensional.

               Apple's arrogance left computer users with less choice than
               they might have had--or, perhaps, with more. After all, if Apple
               had slashed prices early on and taken the business market
               seriously from the start, it could well have ended up in a
               Microsoft-like position, but without having to share its market
               with clones. Microsoft would then have been mostly an
               applications company, selling Excel and Word to Mac users,
               and we'd be hearing about the evil, anticompetitive actions of
               Steve Jobs.

               That seems unlikely, however, and the reason is revealing.
               Apple's all-in-one-box strategy was inherently brittle. It offered
               too many margins of error and too few margins of adjustment.

               The same company wrote the software and made the machines.
               So if the computers caught on fire, as they sometimes did, or
               the manufacturing plants couldn't keep up with Christmas
               demand, there was no alternative outlet for the Mac operating
               system. Software sales dropped too. No competitive sales force
               could go after business users while Jobs and company were
               chasing public schools. All new ideas had to come from within
               the same closed system. (For a discussion of related issues, see
               my Forbes ASAP article "Resilience vs. Anticipation". While
               Apple is based in Silicon Valley, its self-sufficiency strategy
               more closely resembles those of the minicomputer companies
               based around Boston.)

               Microsoft's partner-dependent system proved far more resilient
               as the industry changed. The company didn't have to do
               everything itself, and it could reap the benefits of innovations
               by others, whether in manufacturing, assembly, distribution, or
               applications software. Instead of the best minds of a single
               company, it enlisted the best minds of hundreds. And while
               Microsoft depended on its partners to build the market, in time
               they came to depend on Microsoft. The irony is that by making
               alliances and competing furiously--by not acting like a
               monopolist--Microsoft wound up reaping the benefits of a
               near-monopoly on its operating system.

               It is emphatically not true that "when you buy a computer, you
               already are without any choice as to the operating system," as
               Microsoft critic Audrie Krause said on Crossfire. Both
               REASON's production department and I personally will be
               buying new Macs in the next few months. Translation software
               makes it relatively easy to go from one operating system to
               another. Nowadays, it's possible to function reasonably well
               with an operating system that controls only 5 percent of the
               new-computer market.

               The great fear of Microsoft's critics is that the company will
               wind up controlling everything, foisting mediocre-to-poor
               products on an unwilling public at ever-higher prices. It's
               impossible to disprove that hypothetical scenario. But history,
               and Microsoft's own intense paranoia, cast doubt on it. Just
               when its quasi-monopoly looks secure, something
               new--Netscape's Web browsers, Sun Microsystems' Java
               programming language--pops up and makes Microsoft
               scramble to maintain its position. So far its resilience has
               served it well, but the critics' scary scenario relies on more than
               successful scrambling. It requires absolute security, no future
               challengers. And that looks unlikely.

               Consider the smoking gun memo cited by Assistant Attorney
               General Joel Klein at the press conference announcing the
               Justice Department suit. An internal Microsoft document, it
               told marketing managers to "Worry about the browser share as
               much as Bill Gates does, because we will lose the Internet
               platform battle if we do not have a significant user-installed
               base. The industry would simply ignore our standards. At
               your level, that is at the manager level, if you let customers
               deploy Netscape Navigator, you lose the leadership on the
               desktop."

               I will leave it to the attorneys to divine what it means not to "let
               customers deploy Netscape Navigator," but one thing is clear:
               This is not a company that thinks like a monopoly. It is always
               running scared. There's always the possibility that something
               new could come along and destroy its franchise.

               Microsoft didn't get where it is by creating perfect products. It
               benefited as much from its competitors' mistakes as from its
               own considerable acumen. And it isn't shy about leaning on
               suppliers and intermediate customers, such as computer
               makers, to get its way. In the eyes of its critics, its success is
               therefore proof that something is amiss in the marketplace.

               But the market doesn't promise perfection, only a
               trial-and-error process of discovery and improvement. The
               fallible human beings who create products make mistakes.
               They let their egos and preconceptions blind them to what
               people really want. Or they just don't know enough, or adjust
               fast enough, to produce the right goods at the right time. That
               some of Microsoft's strongest current competitors--Sun and
               Oracle--are gripped by an anti-PC ideology, when customers
               love the independence and flexibility of personal computers,
               does not bode well for them.

               What is striking about the story of Microsoft is how adaptable
               the company has been. Gates's original vision of "a computer
               on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software"
               didn't specify what sort of software or who would make the
               computers. It was an open-ended, flexible idea that built a
               resilient company.

               What Microsoft has delivered is pretty much what most people
               want: a way to use computers easily, for many different
               purposes. Its software isn't always elegant, but that's the
               criterion of programming elites, not everyday users. And
               though Microsoft is clearly the big kid on the block, it has
               enabled, and encouraged, lots of other software developers.
               Microsoft accounts for a mere 4 percent of industry revenue. As
               Eamonn Sullivan of PC Week notes, "A lot of companies are
               making a lot of money on the ubiquity of Windows, providing
               users with a lot of choice where they want it--on their desktops.
               That isn't the expected result of a monopoly."

               From 1969 to 1982, the Justice Department carried on a similar
               trust-busting crusade against IBM, which had behaved in many
               ways just like Microsoft. (An earlier antitrust action against
               IBM had been settled by a consent decree in 1956.) Millions of
               dollars were transferred from the taxpayers and stockholders to
               lawyers and expert witnesses. Enormous amounts of brain
               power were dissipated. Having to monitor every action for
               possible legal ramifications further constipated IBM's
               already-centralized culture.

               The suit was a complete waste. Whatever quasi-monopoly IBM
               had was broken not by government enforcers but by obscure
               innovators, working on computer visions neither IBM nor the
               Justice Department's legions of lawyers had imagined. Big Blue
               is still big, though it's smaller than it once was. But nobody
               thinks it could control the world. The world, it seems, is
               beyond that sort of control.









From brianbr at together.net  Wed Jan  7 19:03:53 1998
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:03:53 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
Message-ID: <199801080258.VAA23445@mx02.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 1/7/98 3:16 AM, Kent Crispin (kent at songbird.com)  passed this
wisdom:

>On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote:
>>I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could
>>inflict a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.
>>With maybe $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training,
>>you could make
>> 
>> 	If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. 
>
>That presumes the enemy is dumb.  An amusing fantasy.

 ... not so .... the US Military has very few really experienced
combat soldiers left and most of those are in places where their
experience isn't available to the grunt on the line. Most RVN vets are
retired ... look just recently at what happened to the Russians troops
sent to Chechnya ... all these brand spanking new, highly trained
proud young 19 and 20 year old troops went romping off to fight 'a
bunch of old men' in the Chechyn Republic ... there was one little
problem ... a big hunk of those old men had spent two to seven years
in that same Russian Army fighting the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan ...
and that 'bunch of old men' kicked their young asses!
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Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

  "In effect, to follow, not to force the public inclination; to give a
   direction, a form, a technical dress, and a specific sanction, to the
   general sense of the community, is the true end of legislature." 
       -- Edmund Burke







From anon at anon.efga.org  Wed Jan  7 19:04:05 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:04:05 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <99d5b130b3c4dbe1a86b35eb0bd8f255@anon.efga.org>



         CRACKING
             DOWN
                 ON
       MICROSOFT

           The Justice
       Department has
       a long history of
            mistaking
         innovators for
          monopolists

       BY LAWRENCE J. SISKIND







          THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE has
          painted its assault on Microsoft Corp. as a campaign against
          tying. Microsoft, the government says, should not be
          allowed to force manufacturers who load Windows95 onto
          their computers to include the Internet Explorer Web
          browser. 

          Close inspection, however, reveals that the DOJ is not
          guarding against tying -- it is guarding against change. And
          while the Justice Department has won the first round
          against the software giant, the question of whether that
          change is good or ill should be left to the market to decide,
          not the government.

          When the DOJ charged Microsoft with violating their 1995
          consent decree, it cited Sec. IV(E)(I), which bars Microsoft
          from conditioning the licensing of any one product on the
          licensing of another. Microsoft's Windows95 operating
          system includes the Internet Explorer -- IE -- Web browser.
          Microsoft openly forbids PC manufacturers licensed to load
          Windows95 from removing the browser. To Joel Klein, head
          of the DOJ's Antitrust Division, this is unlawful tying, plain
          and simple. "We think the evidence will show unmistakably
          that these are two separate products," he said. "Everybody
          knows you have an operating system and you have a
          browser."

          Everybody also knows that whenever a lawyer begins a
          statement with the phrase "everybody knows," the
          consequent proposition will be questionable at best. Mr.
          Klein's statement was not flat-out wrong. But it was flat-out
          nearsighted. The only thing "everybody knows" about
          operating systems is that they are constantly changing.



               Mr. Klein's statement was not
            flat-out wrong. But it was flat-out
                nearsighted. The only thing
           'everybody knows' about operating
          systems is that they are constantly
                             changing.



          An operating system program controls the operation of the
          computer, determining which programs run and when. It
          also coordinates the interaction between the computer's
          memory and its attached devices. When the world's first PC,
          the Altair 8800, appeared in 1975, its operating system
          didn't have much to operate. The product was a
          do-it-yourself kit, without display screen or printer.
          Operating systems became more complex as personal
          computers became more versatile.

          FAR-FLUNG PERIPHERALS

          Contemporary operating systems are as far removed from
          the early operating systems as Cape Kennedy is from Kitty
          Hawk. They have evolved to manage a growing array of
          peripherals: keyboard, monitor, disk drives, printer, fax,
          modem and more. They have also embraced new features
          and capabilities: data compression, disk defragmentation,
          multimedia extensions and data transmission technology.
          All of these features, by the way, once existed as separate
          programs. Yet no one views their inclusion in modern
          operating systems as any kind of tying.

          Which brings us to the Windows95 operating system. When
          Microsoft began to develop Windows95, then code-named
          "Chicago," it decided to build Internet technology into it.
          The early elements of this technology included a Web
          browser and were code-named "O'Hare." The very first
          commercially available versions of Windows95 included
          Internet Explorer as a component. Since then, IE has been
          repeatedly upgraded, with each successive version more
          tightly intertwined with the rest of the operating system.
          The most recent version, IE 4.0, is ubiquitous, and allows
          the user to explore World Wide Web sites from anywhere on
          the computer. One can connect to the Web without even
          opening the browser, and one can view Web sites (called
          "channels") without connecting to the Internet.

          What is true about Windows95 also holds true for rival
          products. Brit Hume recently observed in the Weekly
          Standard: "The distinction between browsers and
          operating systems has blurred to the point where it's not
          clear where one ends and the other begins." Every major
          contemporary operating system now contains Internet
          technology.



            Designing an operating system to
             access the Internet represents a
                quantitative, rather than a
                      qualitative, change.



          The intermeshing of operating systems with Internet
          capabilities is eminently logical. These systems have always
          been designed to access information. In the early days, that
          meant accessing hard drives and floppy-disk drives. With
          the advent of the CD-ROM, they were designed to access
          data from that source. As businesses brought PCs into the
          office, computers became linked together into networks;
          operating systems were designed to access information from
          local area networks.

          The Internet, for all its unimaginably vast dimensions, is
          just another repository of information to a computer.
          Designing an operating system to access the Internet
          represents a quantitative, rather than a qualitative, change.

          MICROSOFT SLACKING

          Ironically, this is not a change sponsored or spearheaded
          by Microsoft. If anything, Bill Gates has been a laggard in
          this area. His rivals are far ahead and he is playing
          catch-up.

          The great proponents of Internet-driven computers have
          emerged from Silicon Valley, not from Redmond, Wash.
          Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle Corp., has long championed
          the idea of the "network computer." Consider computers as
          underwater divers. Equipping each diver with his own tanks
          is wasteful and inefficient. It imposes severe limits on how
          long and how far the diver can explore. Instead, let every
          diver be connected to a surface mothership. The connection
          frees the diver from the limitations and burdens of carrying
          his own tanks. Similarly, loading millions of PCs with their
          own copies of software programs is a waste of resources.
          Instead, let every computer be networked and draw its
          software needs from the vast store of the Internet. The
          result, Ellison says, would be high-quality personal
          computers retailing at about $500.

          In line with this thinking, Sun Microsystems has developed
          Java, a language that allows programmers to create
          Internet-based applications capable of running on any
          computer, regardless of operating system. Sun's CEO, Scott
          McNealy, notes that 400,000 programmers (including 2,500
          at IBM) are currently writing programs in Java language.
          The libertarian journalist and futurist George Gilder
          believes Java will revolutionize personal computing and
          render proprietary systems like Windows obsolete.

          If the future of personal computing is indeed linked to the
          Internet, then weaving Internet technology into Windows95
          (and even more intimately and pervasively into Windows98)
          is not a grab for power. It is a clutch for survival.

          Which brings us back to the DOJ's decision to prosecute
          Microsoft for tying. Some have suspected a political bias,
          noting that in 1992 and 1996 Silicon Valley entrepreneurs
          were among Clinton's best friends in the business
          community. Microsoft, on the other hand, has always
          remained aloof from politics.

          'INSTITUTIONAL MYOPIA'

          But I believe the attack on Microsoft stems from
          institutional myopia rather than political bias. The DOJ's
          Antitrust Division may understand the law and may be
          sincerely dedicated to enforcing it fairly. But it has no way
          of knowing where the economy is headed or how fast it is
          heading in that direction. Instead, the division views the
          economy as static. An operating system will always be an
          operating system. A browser will always be a browser. Just
          like timber, coal or oil: Products do not change.

          Because of this institutional myopia, the DOJ has a history
          of marching down wrong roads. In 1969, it prosecuted IBM.
          Fifteen years passed before the department finally
          understood what every high school techno-geek already
          knew: The computer industry was dynamic, and Big Blue
          was not dominant.



               If the Internet is the future of
           personal computing, then weaving
            Internet technology into Windows
               is not a grab for power. It is a
                      clutch for survival.



          The hapless campaign against IBM probably did no harm.
          Other Antitrust Division missteps have. In the 1960s and
          '70s, long after most Americans had abandoned the
          neighborhood Mom-and-Pop store for the national chain,
          the DOJ was prosecuting Topco Associates, a cooperative
          association of small grocery chains. The DOJ wanted to
          protect the association's small regional members. It failed to
          notice the dynamic changes already apparent to the
          average shopper. The days of the Mom-and-Pop grocer were
          over. And while the DOJ was successfully squashing Topco,
          its much more powerful rivals -- The Great Atlantic & Pacific
          Tea Co. Inc. (A&P), Safeway Inc., the Kroger Co. -- were
          assuming dominance over the grocery business.

          The same myopia underlies the decision to prosecute
          Microsoft. Enslaved by its institutional myopia, the DOJ
          simply cannot understand that operating systems change.
          Thus, it sees tying when in fact there is transmutation.

          Internet-oriented operating systems may be the wave of the
          future. Or they may be a detour to nowhere. Not everyone
          likes or needs the endless waits, the superfluous graphics
          and the flood of irrelevant and unwanted information that
          always seem to accompany excursions onto the Internet.
          Nothing is certain in high tech; business empires rise and
          fall with stunning rapidity. Confronting this sometimes
          creative, sometimes destructive turmoil, a wise government
          would recognize its limitations and restrict its role. Whether
          Windows95 should include Internet Explorer is a question
          best left to the millions of jurors who make up the
          marketplace.




                                AUTHOR

     LAWRENCE J. SISKIND is a San Francisco attorney who specializes in
   intellectual property law. Mr. Siskind owns stock in Microsoft Corp. He hopes
   that his pro-Microsoft opinions, once published, will influence the price of his
       stock favorably. The expectation of financial gain has colored, if not
                 dictated, the opinions expressed in his article.









From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org  Wed Jan  7 19:49:29 1998
From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:49:29 +0800
Subject: More gun nutz
In-Reply-To: <199801080258.VAA23445@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 





On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Brian B. Riley wrote:

> retired ... look just recently at what happened to the Russians troops
> sent to Chechnya ... all these brand spanking new, highly trained
> proud young 19 and 20 year old troops went romping off to fight 'a
> bunch of old men' in the Chechyn Republic ... there was one little
> problem ... a big hunk of those old men had spent two to seven years
> in that same Russian Army fighting the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan ...
> and that 'bunch of old men' kicked their young asses!

That's just the new Russian capitalism. Their military had to create some 
real equipment losses to cover all the missing inventory they're selling 
on the black market.

-r.w.

p.s. - How can I get the DMV to give me "historic" tags for my slightly 
used T-64?

What's the best armored fighting vehicle for a cypherpunk?






From sergey at pelican.el.net  Wed Jan  7 19:57:04 1998
From: sergey at pelican.el.net (Sergey Goldgaber)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:57:04 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood!
In-Reply-To: <19980101150542.36875@songbird.com>
Message-ID: 



On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Kent Crispin wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 01, 1998 at 09:52:20PM +1100, Julian Assange wrote:
> > 
> > Anyone noticed this before?
> 
> No.  But there are two obvious differences between this and the Bell 
> plan:  1) it's not anon; 2) you are explicitly barred from winning if 
> you contribute in any way to the death.

1 - Anonymity is technically feasable.

2 - This requirement is a legal necessity.  Otherwise, the organization
    may be seen as advocating murder.

Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be
no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death.

Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics.

 - Sergey Goldgaber






From wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org  Wed Jan  7 20:30:41 1998
From: wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org (Mark Rogaski)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:30:41 +0800
Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40>
Message-ID: <199801080419.XAA13414@deathstar.jabberwock.org>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

An entity claiming to be David Honig wrote:

: 	
: at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm
: you can test your critical thinking skills...
: 

- From the first paragraph, which offers this indisputable nugget:

  "At no point in time does the ORIGINAL DATA 
   ever gets encrypted or transferred
   in any form or shape."

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.  And the grammar adds an even
better tinge to the spiel.

- -- 
[] Mark Rogaski                   "That which does not kill me
[] wendigo at pobox.com                 only makes me stranger."
[]
[]      finger wendigo at deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key
[] anti spambot: postmaster at localhost abuse at localhost uce at ftc.gov

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=hYW8
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From busadmn at ix.netcom.com  Thu Jan  8 12:33:23 1998
From: busadmn at ix.netcom.com (busadmn at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:33:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!
Message-ID: <67101850_17330549>



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot  less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.   We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.   We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.   We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We did not clean  these, but we did create
3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000
addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to
send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be.

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
 
AND
 
the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list.

>>> NOW ONLY $149.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 
 
 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses
for only $149.00.
 
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-908-245-3119
 
CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
Rapture Marketing Inc.
P.O. Box 616
Kenilworth, NJ 07033







From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Thu Jan  8 13:43:49 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:43:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists
In-Reply-To: <19980107200049.20317.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108131127.008934a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>


At 08:00 PM 1/7/98 -0000, nobody at nsm.htp.org wrote:
>Can someone tell me if the toad cypherpunk list gets *all* the 
>cypherpuink traffic?  As I understand it there are three
>possible subscription points -- does one subscription cover
>all?

You can't subscribe to cypherpunks-request at toad.com any more,
but mail sent there will still get forwarded to the other
mailing lists, all of which send all mail to each other
(except when they're broken, which isn't very often.)

cypherpunks-request@
	cyberpass.net
	algebra.com
	ssz.com
	htp.org

should all get you help for using their subscription mechanism
(usually majordomo or another listserv.)
	
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Jan  7 21:57:59 1998
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:57:59 +0800
Subject: Announcing Crypto Kong, Release Candidate Two.
Message-ID: <199801080543.VAA21873@proxy3.ba.best.com>



    --
Announcing Crypto Kong, Release Candidate Two.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong

please test.

Crypto Kong, like PGP, provides digital signatures and
communications encryption.

The important difference between it and other products that
provide digital signatures and encryption is that it is not
certificate based.  Instead it is signature based.

This eliminates the steep initial learning and management
curves  of existing products.  The user does not need use and
manage  specialized certificates except for specialized
purposes

Perhaps more importantly, it also eliminates the threat we 
saw in England, the threat of the government giving itself a
monopoly in certificate distribution, potentially creating
the  Number-Of-The-Beast system, where you need a government 
certificate to log on to dirty picture sites, to buy, to 
sell, to put up web pages.

The big complexity and user hostility in existing products is 
creating and managing certificates.

For those who need contracts and certificates, (and with Kong
one almost never needs certificates) Kong handles them in an
easy and natural way.

See the discussion in the web site in the chapters:
     Linking digital IDs with paper documents or physical
     presence
and
     Certificates and contracts 

This aspect of Kong seems to have been insufficiently tested
in the beta tests.

 The key feature of the proposed product is that any
digitally  signed document can be stored in the database, and
itself  performs the functions of a certificate, just as a
normal handwritten  signature does.  The user usually does
not need to check a  document against a certificate to see if
it was signed by the "real"  John Doe.  Instead he normally
checks one document against other  documents stored in the
database that have the same signature. And similarly when he
encrypts a document, he does not need to  use a certificate
to encrypt a message to the one *real* John Doe,  he merely
encrypts a message to the *same* John Doe who signed  the
letter he is replying to.

At present people have to deal with certificate management  
problems regardless of whether they really need certificates. 
For example the most common usage of PGP is to check that two 
signatures that purport to be by the same person are in fact 
by the same person.   Unfortunately you cannot check one  
signature against another directly using PGP or any of the  
other existing products.  Instead you have to check both  
signatures against a public key certificate, even if the  
authentication information in that certificate is irrelevant 
to your purpose, which it usually is, which means that you  
have to download the certificate from somewhere, and the  
person signing it had to upload it somewhere.  As PGP always 
checks a document against the certificate, rather than
against  any other document the user happens to feel is
relevant to the  question, the person signing the document
needs to get his  certificate properly signed by some widely
trusted third party,  which is too much trouble or too
complicated for many people.

The signatures and contracts in Crypto Kong are optionally  
tolerant of email munging

The web pages contain a new web page "Business Vision" which 
discusses the widespread failure to adopt cryptography, the  
widespread reluctance to pay for cryptography, and the  
illiquidity of various products for transferring money on the 
net, and proposes a path to a solution.

Clearly, PGP has had rather poor penetration for business    
uses, and by and large, people only need to encrypt or sign  
stuff when there is money at stake.

I believe that this product will be more acceptable for  the 
typical businessman than PGP is, because it is easier to use, 
and existing business practices translate more  readily to   
the identity model it supports than does the PGP identity    
model.

The web page also contains full source code.

Crypto Kong is written in large part as ActiveX component, 
and the use interface and database management code is written 
in visual basic.

The use of ActiveX should make it easy to quickly code 
products and web page that perform tasks involving 
encryption.



    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     AXOOTHyx0TpTLdyQsBnt7WmaVIo1l4WDGabHKK0Y
     4Bxm/YWIEOTOK6zRVH57lP7PENFT5OFN+IR39Fcx8








From pooh at efga.org  Wed Jan  7 22:01:03 1998
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:01:03 +0800
Subject: Remailers & N.E.T.
In-Reply-To: <2257f75e9d4378c573ebe49c9a1d7acc@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108004628.03b6bbe8@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



Perhaps the use of a remailer for this message below is an attempt to
escape the criminal provisions of the No Electronic Theft Act.

>From: Anonymous 
>Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
>	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
>	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
>	remailer administrator at .
>To: cypherpunks at toad.com
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
>Reply-To: Anonymous 
>X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
>
>               Creative Insecurity 
>               The complicated truth behind the rise of Microsoft 
>
>               By Virginia I. Postrel 
>
>               Back in 1983, Forbes ran an article called "If they're so







From frantz at netcom.com  Wed Jan  7 22:03:03 1998
From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:03:03 +0800
Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 10:36 AM -0800 1/7/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>   at 12:10 AM, Bill Frantz  said:
>
>>At 11:49 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>>>I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the
>>>Internet" on the Web.
>>>
>>>It describes the weakening procedure as follows.
>>>
>>>  "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the
>>>   full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits
>>>   of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US
>>>   National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This
>>>   encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an
>>>   additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of
>>>   this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption,
>>>   which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption
>>>   technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only
>>>   has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power
>>>   of 24 times easier, to be precise)."
>
>>It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you
>>zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop.  Of course the
>>receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some
>>software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable.
>
>Wouldn't it be much better just to not use the crap?!?
>
>Why should we give our money to a company that has shown that they will
>sell us out at the first chance of making a buck doing so??

I don't plan on using it, but the Swedes have a bit of an installed base
problem.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







From frantz at netcom.com  Wed Jan  7 22:22:10 1998
From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:22:10 +0800
Subject: Lessig on antitrust and government regulation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 12:48 PM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Lessig is the special master appointed by the judge in the Microsoft
>consent decree case. He once wrote:
>
>>Whether a regulation is
>>rational turns on the facts, and what counts as "the facts" turns on the
>>theory that animates inquiry into the facts.
>
>Wow.
>
>How do we know what theory is the right one, and when we should change it?

Theories are normally only changed when (1) it is obvious they no longer
reflect observed reality, and (2) they can't be patched anymore.  :-)

The Ptolemaic theory of the universe is the classic example.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







From snow at smoke.suba.com  Wed Jan  7 22:38:21 1998
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:38:21 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com>
Message-ID: <199801080635.AAA01419@smoke.suba.com>



> On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote:
> > > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
> > > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military.  With maybe
> > > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
> > 	If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. 
> That presumes the enemy is dumb.  An amusing fantasy.

	No, just that one could bootstrap your fight for a lot less.

	As long as cops have guns and piano wire is unrestricted, ruthless
people will always have access to guns. 






From alan at clueserver.org  Wed Jan  7 22:44:01 1998
From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:44:01 +0800
Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107221217.03fd76b0@clueserver.org>



At 08:30 PM 1/7/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote:
>
>David Honig wrote:
>
>> at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm
>> you can test your critical thinking skills...
>
>Clearly everyone in this company is on crack. :)

And they also seem to be members of the Society for Creative Anacronyms.

---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com|






From dave at bureau42.ml.org  Wed Jan  7 22:54:14 1998
From: dave at bureau42.ml.org (David E. Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:54:14 +0800
Subject: The hax0rz are at it again... check out www.unicef.org
Message-ID: 



Although I can't agree with their methods, I really love their motives.

In case they fix it sometime soon, go to:
http://bureau42.base.org/mirrors/ and click the "unicef" link.

dave






From tyna at mystop.com  Wed Jan  7 23:09:24 1998
From: tyna at mystop.com (Tina (SingPing) Lai)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:09:24 +0800
Subject: [hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]]
Message-ID: <34B475DA.2E280EBF@mystop.com>




To: Airheadlin at aol.com, SWeeTpny98 at aol.com, Tlai at mystop.com
Subject: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]
From: Alyse4112 
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:06:34 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)



To: Alyse4112 at aol.com, OhUSoSilly at aol.com, Ninavc at aol.com,swimgirl12 at hotmail.com
Subject: Fwd:hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]
From: RayRay124 
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:01:18 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

In a message dated 98-01-05 22:49:10 EST, DimplesF56 writes:

<< 
 >>



To: RayRay124 at aol.com, VHSmile at aol.com, nail at home.com, Sak14 at aol.com,AZNPL8YBOY at aol.com, ARISTO20 at aol.com, JILTED76 at aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]
From: DimplesF56 
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:49:10 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)



To: Helen Huang , Jenny Young ,       Jonathan Woo , Margery Lee ,       Musette Chan , Steven Hu ,       Thyda Chhor 
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]
From: Kwan 
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:09:45 -0800



To: Helen Huang , Jenny Young ,       Jonathan Woo , Margery Lee ,       Musette Chan , Steven Hu ,       Thyda Chhor 
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]
From: Kwan 
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:09:45 -0800



--------------------
Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175])
	by dry.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16198
	for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:15:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Bar111bie 
Message-ID: <2e2dd6f8.34ab0a14 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:14:26 EST
To: kwan887 at jps.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!
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From: Babytimd13 
Return-path: 
To: Bar111bie at aol.com
Subject: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:42:58 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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From: Babytimd13 
Return-path: 
To: Rndy2 at aol.com
Subject: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 03:56:13 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 97-12-28 19:03:18 EST, you write:

<< Begin...
 
 
 > =
 
 > First, write 1-11in a column.
 > Then in the first and second spaces, fill any two numbers you like.
 > Write two males names in the 3rd and 7th spaces.
 > Write anyone's name (like friends or family...) in the 4th, 5th, and
 >6th spaces.
 > Write four song titles in 8,9,10 and 11.
 > =
 
 > Finally, make a wish...
 > =
 
 > =
 
 > And here is the key for that game...
 > =
 
 > =
 
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >You must tell (the number in space 2) people about this game in (the =
 
 >number in space 1) days in order to make your wish come true.
 > =
 
 > The name in 3 is the one you love.
 > The person in 7 is the one you like but can't work out.
 > You care most about the person you put in 4.
 > Fifth is the one you knows you very well.
 > The name in 6 is your lucky star.
 > The song in 8 is the song that matches with the person in 3.
 > The title in 9 is the song for 7.
 > The tenth space is the song telling you about your mind.
 > And 11 is the song telling what you feel for sex.......
 > = >>

--part1_883624466_boundary--

--part0_883624466_boundary--










From jalonz at openworld.com  Wed Jan  7 23:48:36 1998
From: jalonz at openworld.com (jalonz at openworld.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:48:36 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <85256586.0029E630.00@openworld.com>




>#   SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
>#
>#   Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal
>#   investigations.  Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased
data,
>#   password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry.
>
>Isn't that last item special?
>
>---guy
>
>   And a possible reason for heading the other way.

guy,

tough noogies

deal with it...

Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could
actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually
quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals)
and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of.

Besides the DA office reference (I can completely understand about that
one), which was consulting work, what's your point in laying someone's life
out on a page? Who cares? Yeah, its a lot of stuff, I just happen to work
for start-up companies and thus I jump around a lot - given that most of
them never make it due to one problem or another.

:)
jqz







From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Wed Jan  7 23:53:38 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:53:38 +0800
Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801050513.XAA22310@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107234753.00845350@popd.ix.netcom.com>



>> What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise)
>> body armor for cypherpunks?

Anonymity, of course .....


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Thu Jan  8 00:16:14 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:16:14 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108000200.0084fab0@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>"Evolution in action."
>Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool.

It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced...

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From tvid60 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  8 16:53:29 1998
From: tvid60 at hotmail.com (TVID)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:53:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Television Caller ID
Message-ID: <234a8sdf67q2348r@hotmail.com>


The TVMessenger utilizes the powerful medium of Television to display Telephone Caller ID information. 
While watching your favorite movie or TV show, the TVMessenger will display incoming callers name 
and number in the upper left hand corner of your TV screen. 

This convenient easy-to-read caller display lets you make an immediate decision on how to handle the 
call. In addition, the TVMessenger keeps track of your calls while your away. The callers name, number, 
date, time, and the number of times they have called are stored in the callers log for future reference - 
Ideal for number retrieval! The TVMessenger also works with your voice messaging service - it provides 
a visual indication that a message is waiting. 


CONVENIENCE     *     SECURITY     *     CALLERS LOG     *     MESSAGE WAITING/NEW CALL INDICATOR


REPLY to this email, visit our Website or CALL US for details TODAY!!


_______________________________________________
http://www.promobility.net/tvid/

Tel. 888-632-1310







From isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de  Thu Jan  8 01:07:52 1998
From: isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de (Ian Sparkes)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:07:52 +0800
Subject: brute forcing combination locks (Re: Bruce Schneier, Sandia, FBI and the REAL WORLD)
In-Reply-To: <34B3DFB4.6396@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980108100339.00722fc8@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de>



>So I hacked up some code to compute the minimal universal door entry
>sequence number...
>
>The sequence looked something like this:
>
>01234567890124568902346780...

We have the same system at my [x], and I have played with the same idea
coming up with similar results (my value was somewhat lower - but this was
fag packet maths and therefore subject to error). In my fantasies I have
also connected this sequence to an array of solenoids which punch in the
number while you wait. The locks seem to be able to handle a throughput of
around 2 digits per second, meaning the average search time of 10 minutes.
Bear in mind that there are 8 of these locks - with the appropriate
hardware you could guarantee to be in in less than three mins.

The reason that this has remained in my fantasies is that any key changes
are predictable - the company is the (until last Wednesday) state owned
telephone company =) and the keyspace consists of the area codes for the
surrounding regions.

And this lock is the only thing that stands between the outside world and
25 Servers and 300 workstations.

Makes you think...






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Thu Jan  8 01:23:02 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:23:02 +0800
Subject: Anonymous Remailers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801080918.KAA28931@basement.replay.com>







On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> 
> > I noticed on Apple's info about acceptable behavior on their lists, that
> 
> I decided to stop accepting posts from anonymous remailers way back,
> when anon.penet.fi was still alive. Some of that is philosophy, some of
> that was problems.
> 
> As far as problems, it's the normal stuff -- personal attacks,
> mailbombing through anonymous remailers, copyright/slander/libel
> issues, all the normal fun and games. Since you can't track users back,
> you have real problems policing them. And since anonymous remailers
> tend to allow multiple (heading towards infinite) remailing addresses,
> the practical issue of how to lock out an abusive user becomes severe.
Mailbombing could be a criminal offence.
But libel is a civil and not a criminaloffence.
Under The Communications Decency Act S.230(a) no service provider is 
liable for content authored by others.
Even if someone use a remailer to  slander and libel further action 
requires private civil action.
There is absolute no reason for being concerned about defamation from the 
operator point of view.
The Fourth Circuit Court upheld the service provider impunity defence in 
a recent case
brought against American Online Inc. (Zeran v. American Online Inc.).
However,if a moderator vulunterable approves a libelous message the case 
could be different.
BTW, am I correct that criminal libel in no longer considered constitutional?






From pooh at efga.org  Thu Jan  8 01:23:10 1998
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:23:10 +0800
Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



At 02:07 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>This is for a story for Time on the "new" U.S .Postal Service. I vaguely
>recall the USPS trying to set digital signature standards and/or serve as
>a CA. I'd like to mention this.
>
>Can't remember the details, though. Does anyone have 'em (or a pointer to
>them) handy?

A few months back I asked a USPS rep about this, and was told that the idea
had been scrapped.  I do not know that this was correct.  The USPS was
going to do timestamping as well as act as a CA as I recall.  The
timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally signed message.
Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, though I have had a hard
time justifying the need for this to some technically inclined people.

Try "digital postmark" in yahoo.
http://www.aegisstar.com/uspsepm.html
http://xent.ics.uci.edu/FoRK-archive/fall96/0328.html

An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making
the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was
not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read it.

Additional timestamping services are available perhaps from Pitney Bowes,
Arthur Anderson, and http://www.itconsult.co.uk/stamper.htm.  My memory on
this fails me.  


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh at efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key






From gbroiles at netbox.com  Thu Jan  8 01:52:31 1998
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:52:31 +0800
Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980108014945.006c9910@pop.sirius.com>



>This is for a story for Time on the "new" U.S .Postal Service. I vaguely
>recall the USPS trying to set digital signature standards and/or serve as
>a CA. I'd like to mention this.
>
>Can't remember the details, though. Does anyone have 'em (or a pointer to
>them) handy?

See  for information about the USPS'
plan to act as a CA.


--
Greg Broiles                | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles at netbox.com         | Export jobs, not crypto.
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | http://www.parrhesia.com






From mitch at duzen.com.tr  Thu Jan  8 02:21:47 1998
From: mitch at duzen.com.tr (S. M. Halloran)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:21:47 +0800
Subject: Anonymous Remailers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801081014.MAA06679@ankara.duzen.com.tr>



On  8 Jan 98, Anonymous was found to have commented thusly:

> On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> 
> > > I noticed on Apple's info about acceptable behavior on their lists, that
> > 
> > I decided to stop accepting posts from anonymous remailers way back,
> > when anon.penet.fi was still alive. Some of that is philosophy, some of
> > that was problems.
> > 
> > As far as problems, it's the normal stuff -- personal attacks,
> > mailbombing through anonymous remailers, copyright/slander/libel
> > issues, all the normal fun and games. Since you can't track users back,
> > you have real problems policing them. And since anonymous remailers
> > tend to allow multiple (heading towards infinite) remailing addresses,
> > the practical issue of how to lock out an abusive user becomes severe.
> Mailbombing could be a criminal offence.
> But libel is a civil and not a criminaloffence.
> Under The Communications Decency Act S.230(a) no service provider is 
> liable for content authored by others.
> Even if someone use a remailer to  slander and libel further action 
> requires private civil action.
> There is absolute no reason for being concerned about defamation from the 
> operator point of view.
> The Fourth Circuit Court upheld the service provider impunity defence in 
> a recent case
> brought against American Online Inc. (Zeran v. American Online Inc.).
> However,if a moderator vulunterable approves a libelous message the case 
> could be different.
> BTW, am I correct that criminal libel in no longer considered constitutional?
 
Depends on whose constitution you are reading.

In the country where I reside, the politicians use libel laws to 
avoid accountability to the voting public and to get at 
journalists with both civil and, I am pretty sure, criminal 
penalties.  Journalism is a job with rather unusual occupational 
hazards in this particular country, in fact, with the largest number 
of murders of journalists taking place here, often by the police or 
some 'civil authority', who are rather brazen about it and 
characterize any journalist not in the pocket as a sympathizer of a 
cause for which the public is willing to do a lynching.  (The 
military, which operates its own 'state security' court system here, 
just throws them in the lockup until they find a way to escape.)  Sam 
Donaldson would have been history long ago here.

Mitch Halloran
Research (Bio)chemist
Duzen Laboratories Group
Ankara   TURKEY
mitch at duzen.com.tr

other job title:  Sequoia's (dob 12-20-95) daddy






From cuajuazu at prodigy.com  Thu Jan  8 20:07:10 1998
From: cuajuazu at prodigy.com (cuajuazu at prodigy.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: happy?
Message-ID: <199801084172DAA45004@post.it>



                        QUIT YOUR JOB WITHIN 2 MONTHS !  
                  
                          $1,000,000.00     IN 6 MONTHS ! 

                               ALL  NEW!
       0   0           TAKE MATTERS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS!           0   0                                            
           <                                                                                                >
           \_/              YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST TO SEE THIS            \_/         
                        
         HELP OTHERS SUCCEED, A "WIN-WIN"  PROPOSITION LIKE NO OTHER!                                                     
                        
              WE HAVE TAKEN A SUCCESSFUL FORMULA AND MASTERED IT!!!!!!!                                           
                        
                             HELP YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY SUCCEED                              
                   
    I absolutely disliked my job. Working for someone else was beating me up.
   I wanted freedom . That is all I wanted. Free of my boss , free of a schedule,
          free of paying bills .Freedom to spend time with my family. 
              Freedom to do whatever I wanted , whenever I wanted.
                       Sound like a fairy tale?   Sound like a pipe dream? 
                              Well people, here is your reality check.

          18 months ago I was living the normal everyday life. Job, bills,not much
time and not entirely happy.Sometimes I was happy, but I wasn't living the life 
I had envisioned myself living 10 years earlier. Things weren't going as planned.
I was happily married with 2 children , but still I felt like life was designing me
instead of me designing my life. I reached a point were I decided I needed a 
jumpstart. I started filling my mind with positive, motivational ideas that I read in 
books. I started going to seminars to try to stimulate my mind as well as my life.
    
         I began believing and KNOWING that things were going to change in a BIG way,
but I didn't know from where. Then something funny happenned. While looking through my email, I came across this success program that said I could make a large amount of money in a short period of time rather easily. I decided , "what the hell , it's only $20" and tried it. Little did I realize that I was one of the first to see that message that everyone has seen and deleted  hundreds of times. Right place at the right time?
Maybe. I think It's more like my mind was ready for an opportunity and there it was.
 I was barely able to turn a computer on , but I managed and learned and more money flew in than I knew what to do with . I organized . It exploded even more. I made more money in 3 months than I made at my job in the last 5 years! So I quit my job and started doing this full time - a few hours a day. 

 I have never felt more confident and better about myself in my whole life . My life has exceded every expectation, in so many ways, in such a short time that it borders on divine intervention. Well that program has long since reached it's peak and changed so many times that it's almost dead. What we have here is the same formula only accelerated and improved . We have removed the useless reports of the last program and added some that will blow your mind , The reports could literally change your life in many ways and help those around you. But anyway, please read on .You are one of the first to see this . Your opportunity is now.

   
Email has come along way .It is still almost totally free-except for your ISP account. You can literally reach millions of people at no cost. This sure beats postal delivery . Our program will get even the beginner computer user on the path of success.                 
Of course over the last few months a few road blocks have appeared that has hindered many success programs.                
These are;                                                                   
                                                             
  1. goverment is trying to pass legislation to limit or stop what                             
has until now been a free way of advertising. Email will be severly                             
restricted, very, very soon.Up until now,this type of program is 100%                             
legal and has no laws governing it. Soon this will change.                 
                                       
                                   *******************                              
 2.Internet service providers ,usch as AOL and Compuserve are really                             
trying their best to end unsolicited Emailing.                 
                                                   
                                   *******************                             
  3. Once you have seen a certain program that has "flooded" the                             
internet lines, it is already too late. The People who have made                             
money are on to bigger and brighter things, and the majority of                             
people will just delete the Email because they have seen it hundreds                             
of times already.                          
                                  ********************                  
                            
   4.  OTHER PROGRAMS HAVE PRODUCTS AND REPORTS THAT ARE THERE                             
SPECIFICALLY TO JUSTIFY THE PROGRAM( make them legal). This program has a                            
 great product that can change peoples lives and help others around                             
them .
                          
                                 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$                          
                                                                                                  
       IF YOU EVER THOUGHT OF TRYING A PROGRAM , NOW IS THE                             
                         TIME AND THIS IS THE PROGRAM!                   
                           
                                 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$                                     
                            
                                                  
          Prior reports from similer programs , were                             
basically there only to justify the program. These NEW reports                             
are - PRICELESS!  The reports are unbelivable! The information in the                             
programs alone may change your life;                                                    
               financially,emotionally,spiritually, in every way!                                 
                            
       If you have tried other Email programs and had limited                             
success, it was because of three things ;                                 
          1. EFFORT                               
          2. TIMING                                   
          3. PRODUCT                               
                            
                                                               
                                            THIS PROGRAM                             
TAKES CARE OF ISSUES #2 AND #3 . THE EFFORT IS UP TO YOU.                            
 I can not stress how much of the success of a program depends on the                             
product and ease of use. Here is your chance , I do not know how long                             
you will have this opportunity, only the goverment can decide.                         
                            
    IT IS A CAN'T LOSE - "WIN-WIN"  OPPORTUNITY!!                               
                              
    ********************************************************************                             
    THIS PROGRAM ,UNLIKE THE OTHERS , HAS A GREAT PRODUCT                               
    AND IT WILL SUCCEED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PEOPLE  TRYING TO                             
    HELP OTHERS LIVE AND ENJOY LIFE TO THE FULLEST                               
                                       
    *********************************************************************                                      
                                                  
    THIS IS THE PROGRAM TO TRY ! YOU MAY NOT GET ANOTHER CHANCE!         
                          
                                   
   Here is how the program works;                            
                            
Print this now for future reference***********************                            
This is a money making phenomenon !!!!!!!!!!  You are looking at the                            
most profitable and unique program you may ever see.  It is proven                             
to generate large sums of money and it is completely legal.  It does                             
not require you to come in contact with people, it doesn't require                             
hard work and you never have to leave the house .                           
                            
We sell thousands of people a product for $10.00 that costs very little to produce                            
on e-mail.  We build our business by recruiting new members and                             
partners and selling our products.                            
                            
The product in this program is a series of 4 reports providing tips for financial,                            
emotional and spiritial gain.  Each $10.00 order you receive by mail                             
will include the e-mail address of the sender.  To fill the order,                             
simply e-mail the report to the buyer, that's it!!!!!!!!!!!!  The                             
$10.00 they send is yours simply for sending the report via e-mail.                            
                            
         YOU MUST FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!                
                            
This is what you do ............................                            
                            
1.Order all 4 reports that are listed below.  For each report you send                            
 $10.00 cash, your e-mail address, return postal address (in case of                             
mail errors) to each person listed below.  When you order, be sure to                             
list the specific report you need.  You will need all 4 reports to                             
save on your computer for reselling them.                            
                            
2. IMPORTANT  Do not alter the names, or the sequence that they                            
are in or you will not profit the way you should.THIS IS A KEY TO                             
MAKING THE PROGRAM WORK. It is not fair to the others in the program                             
if you do not follow the program exactly. DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD                             
LIKE THEM TO DO UNTO YOU! -the golden rule of life .                            
                            
3. Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with your name and move the                            
name that was there down to REPORT #2.  Move the name on REPORT #2                             
to REPORT #3 and so on eliminating the name on report #4.  They are                              
well on their way to financial independance by now so don't worry .                              
Copy the names and addresses accurately and do not remove the                             
Report/Product positions.                            
                            
Take this entire text and save it on your computer.                            
                            
Now your ready to start selling your product on the web.  Start your campaign as                
soon as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!                                
                            
***********ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME DAY SERVICE*******************                            
                            
ALWAYS SEND $10.00 CASH FOR EACH ORDER (CONCEALED) FOR EACH ORDER  REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER.  ALWAYS SEND MAIL FIRST CLASS AND PROVIDE YOUR E MAIL ADDRESS                
FOR QUICK DELIVERY.                             
                            

____________________________________________________                            
REPORT #1 "EMAIL MILLIONAIRES-THE ROAD TO INDEPENDANCE"                            
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:                              
A&L INC.                            
113 MT. HERMON WAY                             
OCEAN GROVE , N.J. 07756                            
_____________________________________________________                            
REPORT #2 "REAL ESTATE -'THE ART OF THE FLIP'"                            
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:                            
SMITH & CO.                            
P.O. BOX 678                             
KEYPORT N.J. 07735                            
_____________________________________________________                            
REPORT #3 "MAKE 10-20% A MONTH IN STOCKS"                            
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:                            
MS INC.                            
46 W. SHORE ST                            
KEANSBURG N.J. 07734                            
______________________________________________________                            
REPORT #4 "THE STRANGEST SECRET "                            
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:                            
McCollough                             
504 13th ave                            
Belmar N.J. 07719                            
______________________________________________________                            
                            
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL EARN YOU MONEY                            
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes.                            
Assume your goal is to get only 20 people to participate on your first level.                            
(Placing FREE ads on the internet could get a better response.)                            
                            
Also assume that everyone else in YOUR BUILDING ORGANIZATION                            
gets only 20 downline members.  Follow this example for the STAGGERING                             
results below:                            
                            
1st level -- your 20 members with 10  ($10 x 20)                 $200    (position 1)                            
2nd level --20 members from those 20 ($10 x 400)              $4000    (position 2)                            
3rd level -- 20 members from those 400 ($10 x 8,000)         $80,000   (position 3)                            
4th level -- 20 members from those 8,000 ($10 x 160,000)   $1,600,000   (position 4)                            
                                                THIS TOTALS----------->   $1,684,200.00 !!!!!!!!!                            
                            
Remember friends, this is assuming that the people who participate only                            
recruit 20 people each.  Imagine what the response would be if you only  got 10 more people to participate!                            
Some people get 100's of recruits!                              
STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT!                            
                            
By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing.                            
You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!!                            
                            
REMEMBER:  Approx. 50,000 new people get online monthly!                            
ORDER YOUR REPORTS NOW!!!                            
                            
                              *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******                            
                            
TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!                            
Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY, so you will have them when the                            
orders start coming in because: When you receive a $10 order, you MUST                            
send out the requested product/report to comply with the                            
U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,                            
Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16,                            
Sections 255 and 436, which state that:                            
"a product or service must be exchanged for money received."                            
                            
 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. *                            
Be patient and persistent with this program.  If you follow the instructions                            
EXACTLY the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESS!                            
 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN SUCCEED!                            
                            
                          *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******                            
                            
The check point that guarantees your success is simply this:                            
You MUST receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1!  THIS IS A MUST!                            
If you don't within two weeks, advertise more and send out more programs                             
until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100                            
orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, advertise more and send out more                             
programs until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for                             
REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because you will be on your way to the                             
BANK!  Or, you can DOUBLE your efforts!                            
                            
REMEMBER:  Every time your name is moved down on the list you are in front                            
of a DIFFERENT report, so you can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by                            
what report people are ordering from you.                            
IT'S THAT EASY!!!                           
                                               
====================================================                            
ORDER TODAY AND GET STARTED ON THE PATH TO YOUR FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!                            
                            
Very few people reach financial independence, because when                            
opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it.  It is much easier to say                            
"NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer.                            
Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it?                            
If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change.                            
Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity.  My method is simple.                            
I sell thousands of people a product for $10 that costs me pennies to produce                            
and e-mail.  I should also point out this program is legal and everyone who                            
participates WILL make money.  This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam.                            
This is a business!  You are offering a awesome product to your people.                            
After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them.                            
The information contained in these REPORTS IS UNBELIEVABLE!  They                             
will not only help you in making your participation in this program                             
more rewarding, but THEY MAY CHANGE YOUR LIFE AND HELP THOSE YOU LOVE                             
AND CARE ABOUT! .  You are also buying the rights to reprint all of                             
the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail                             
this program.  The concise REPORTS you will be buying are easy to                             
duplicate for your entrepreneurial endeavor.                            
                            
           Thank you for your attention.  Now make the decision that's right for you.   


u From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Thu Jan 8 04:25:32 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:25:32 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801081204.EAA28274@sirius.infonex.com> Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is cross-ruminated. | | | O | Tim C. May (--|--) | / \ From jim at acm.org Thu Jan 8 05:25:52 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:25:52 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B4CFF0.858FF03C@acm.org> Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop > their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than > mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that > is at odds with science itself, which only advances through > the open literature. Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science anyway by offering patent protection. You don't make money by giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only ones who don't merit your censure on this count. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 17 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 13:04 12.19.4.14.17, 1 Caban 15 Kankin, Ninth Lord of Night From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 8 07:18:41 1998 From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:18:41 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market > > and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the > > fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. > > My rights to swing my fists end at your noise. When ever you interact > with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights. Even Adam > Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of > the market. Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me, the NAP and rights of association should clearly define the answer to this question, no agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever. > Also recall the free market model assumes that the word is full of totaly > rational pepeale who have full knowige of the market. Any one who has > been on this list knows that these peaple are somewhat uncommen. I don`t see the model that way at all, I don`t claim that my idea of a free market works well in practice, I believe it would but I have no proof, however, the model is ethically right in that it allows businesses and individuals to behave as they please as long as it harms no other person, sure, firing you may harm you by decreasing your income but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to offer you, or keep you, in employment. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From dm0 at avana.net Thu Jan 8 07:53:29 1998 From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:53:29 +0800 Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <34B51EC8.2489@avana.net> Robert A. Costner wrote: > A few months back I asked a USPS rep about this, and was told that the idea > had been scrapped. I do not know that this was correct. The USPS was > going to do timestamping as well as act as a CA as I recall. The > timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally signed message. > Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, though I have had a hard > time justifying the need for this to some technically inclined people. I have it on good authority that either the plan has been scrapped or that it has simply gone nowhere (same result). > An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making > the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was > not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read it. I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by USPS employees. 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You won't be disappointed. =========================================================== TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US. =========================================================== From honig at otc.net Thu Jan 8 10:25:19 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:25:19 +0800 Subject: MS Server Gated Crypto: strong encryption w/ exportable browsers if the server is US-OK Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108090210.007a6820@206.40.207.40> The jist of http://eu.microsoft.com/industry/finserv/m_finserv/m_fordev_g.htm is, MS has US permission to export a DLL containing 128-bit SSL *worldwide* since the encryption is enabled IFF there's a Verisign "SGC certificate" on the *server*. This apparently will work with Netscape servers in addition to IIS. This facilitates gov't-trusted banks doing business with clients with generic MS browsers. And it facilitates MS's growth in the web world. Thoughts: Since US law (*) doesn't recognize digital IDs or the authority of Verisign, this implies the government has enforced some arbitrary judgement calls biassed towards this system, no? Additionally, the US would be seeming to trust the implementation in MS's new DLL which checks for and verifies signatures. All in all, some clever/cunning positioning by MS. This is set up for banks, and the certificates are strong. But they seem like the weak point --could a generic certificate be circulated amongst the Undesirables so they could enable this feature in IE browsers with the new DLL? (*) I understand that the government of Utah now recognizes some form of digital signatures. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From honig at otc.net Thu Jan 8 10:34:45 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:34:45 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <53Zuie3w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108092357.007c64e0@206.40.207.40> At 12:02 AM 1/8/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >>"Evolution in action." >>Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. > >It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... > No, if it gets them before they could have reproduced more, that's good too. Also, if their absence hurts their existing spawn, that's selection as well. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 10:37:38 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:37:38 +0800 Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto (fwd) Message-ID: <199801081753.LAA03063@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:45:28 -0800 > From: David Miller > Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto > I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, > but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours > and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to > you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by > USPS employees. The way it works is if a company send you (ie addressed to you or your physical address) and *then* attempts to recoup costs for the product or item delivered *and* you did not request the item *then* it is yours. It must be either addressed to you or the occupant of that delivery address, it is important to note that the test in all this is whether you requested something from the company. If the item is specificaly addressed to a 3rd party it is a crime to open it. I haven't looked into what the requirements for re-delivery are, as far as I am aware you could either return it to the post office for dead-letter filing or dump it in the trash. > It certainly is a federal crime, however, for the indended recipient to get > into your mailbox to get a message which was incorrectly delivered to you, > however! Technicaly, it is a crime for *you* to put stuff in your mailbox. When the home pick-up was eliminated a few years ago (supposedly because of the drug and bomb threat) the mailbox on your house or in your apartment was turned into an *exclusive* delivery point for the USPS. When you or I ask somebody to drop it in the box because we are not home we are technicaly committing a crime. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From honig at otc.net Thu Jan 8 10:38:30 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:38:30 +0800 Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! In-Reply-To: <19980101150542.36875@songbird.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108092108.007c3b30@206.40.207.40> At 10:48 PM 1/7/98 -0800, Sergey Goldgaber wrote: >On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Kent Crispin wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 01, 1998 at 09:52:20PM +1100, Julian Assange wrote: >> > >> > Anyone noticed this before? >> >> No. But there are two obvious differences between this and the Bell >> plan: 1) it's not anon; 2) you are explicitly barred from winning if >> you contribute in any way to the death. > >1 - Anonymity is technically feasable. > >2 - This requirement is a legal necessity. Otherwise, the organization > may be seen as advocating murder. > >Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be >no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death. > >Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics. > > - Sergey Goldgaber I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a proposal: If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated from the net and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. Since the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair collaborated, well, when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in the client. The N-months might be a weakness since there is no expiration time on homicide. But in cases where cause of death is known and it can be proved that the incarcerated is not the winner, it looks good. E.g., a bet that "more than two BATF agents will be blown up in 97" would be safely payable now that those fellows with the short haircuts have been convicted. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From honig at otc.net Thu Jan 8 10:44:25 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:44:25 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108093331.007c6100@206.40.207.40> At 05:09 AM 1/8/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through >> the open literature. > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) >algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. >Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science >anyway by offering patent protection. You don't make money by >giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools >and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only >ones who don't merit your censure on this count. >-- Nuri was obviously going through the angst of realizing responsibility as a creative technologist. You are adding antibusiness sentiments to this. The fact is, you choose who/what you work on. And face it, many government scientists think they're wearing white hats. As do those in industry and academia, as well as the independant investigator. The British scientist reporting on his discovery of PK was not *bitter* that others found it too. He was explaining the secretive context of its development in one closed shop. He undoubtably thinks his work was Good. It is only some readers who are thinking that the Brit is trying to usurp something. He's not. I thought the Brit's explanation was helpful for understanding PK beyond the confusing complexity of the RSA-implementation of it. It does not detract from the efforts (or patents) of anyone, that PK has been discovered multiple times. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From declan at well.com Thu Jan 8 11:01:54 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:01:54 +0800 Subject: Journalism and the Internet conference at Freedom Forum Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Journalism and the Internet conference at Freedom Forum [I'm on the "Online journalism, governments and the First Amendment" panel tomorrow. I expect rating systems will come up. --Declan] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:48:22 -0500 From: Adam Powell Subject: Journalism/Internet conf webcast Tomorrow's "Journalism and the Internet" conference will be webcast in its entirety, so those who cannot join us in person will be able to join sessions on line. Webcast listeners will also be able to submit questions and comments via e-mail for panelists during the webcast. Below is the schedule (all times EST): "Journalism and the Internet" conference Rooftop Conference Center The Freedom Forum 1101 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, Virginia 22209 8:30 a.m. -- Welcome and introduction Charles Overby, The Freedom Forum; Richard Sammon, National Press Club 9 a.m. -- Keynote address Speaker: Steve Case, America Online Moderator: Adam Powell 9:45 a.m. -- "Where are we/How did we get here?" Panelists: Llewellyn King, King Publishing; Sam Meddis, USA TODAY; Stephen Miller, The New York Times; Marc Weiss, Web Development Fund Moderator: Don Brown, QRadio 11 a.m. -- "Standards and ethics online" Panelists: Rajiv Chandrasekaran, The Washington Post; Steven Levy, Newsweek; John Markoff, The New York Times; Jai Singh, CNET Moderator: Lee Thornton, University of Maryland 12:30 p.m. -- Luncheon program -- "Sports journalism online: Special case or leading edge?" Welcome: Peter Prichard, The Freedom Forum Speaker: John Rawlings, The Sporting News Moderator: Gene Policinski, The Freedom Forum 2:15 p.m. -- "Online journalism, governments and the First Amendment" Panelists: Donna Demac, Georgetown University; Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation; Declan McCullagh, Netly News/Time magazine; Lynn Povich, MSNBC Moderator: Paul McMasters, The Freedom Forum 4 p.m. -- "Politics '98 online" Panelists: Farai Chideya, ABC News; Kathleen deLaski, America Online; Mike Riley, CNN/Time's AllPolitics; Omar Wasow, MSNBC Moderator: Robert Merry, Congressional Quarterly Newseum Broadcast Studio The Newseum 1101 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, Virginia 22209 1 p.m. -- "Journalism and the Internet" public program Journalist of the Day: John Markoff, The New York Times *** We will also have live webcasts of the Saturday programs: Newseum Broadcast Studio The Newseum 1101 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, Virginia 22209 1 p.m. -- "Journalism and the Internet" public program Journalist of the Day: Jai Singh, CNET 2:30 p.m. -- "Journalism and the Internet" public program Technology demonstration: John Pavlik, Center for New Media, Columbia University Discussion: Benjamin Davis, MSNBC Steve Geimann, Society of Professional Journalists Lisa Napoli, New York Times *** Adam Clayton Powell, III Vice President, Technology and Programs, The Freedom Forum 703-284-3553 fax 703-284-2879 apowell at freedomforum.org apowell at alum.mit.edu http://www.freedomforum.org/technology/welcome.asp From jim at acm.org Thu Jan 8 11:05:23 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:05:23 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B5111C.7129@acm.org> David Honig wrote: > At 05:09 AM 1/8/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: > >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop > >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than > >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that > >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through > >> the open literature. > > > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists > >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) > > Nuri was obviously going through the angst of realizing responsibility > as a creative technologist. > > You are adding antibusiness sentiments to this. > > The fact is, you choose who/what you work on. I'm not adding antibusiness sentiments -- I'm questioning why the Vladster limited his angst to government. I did, in fact, choose to work in private industry, and I'm not opposed to inventors reaping the rewards of their brain power -- and that goes for the inventors of public keys and RSA, who I feel earned their rewards. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 17 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 17:43 12.19.4.14.17, 1 Caban 15 Kankin, Ninth Lord of Night From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 8 11:39:58 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:39:58 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:09 AM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through >> the open literature. > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) >algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. >Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science >anyway by offering patent protection. You don't make money by >giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools >and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only >ones who don't merit your censure on this count. Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) Corporate scientists now outnumber academic or foundation scientists, and they are quite understandably under various restrictions to keep results secret, at least for a while. Science does not "only advance through the open literature." There are many other checks and balances which accomplish the same effect. I could give dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was not used...and science still advanced. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 8 12:05:24 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:05:24 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <199801081855.TAA05464@basement.replay.com> > > Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been > > working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing* > > in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being > > discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. Yawn. > > You mean things like Onion Routers, Crowds & the like? Tim May doesn't know anything about Onion Routers, Crowds, or any of the other new privacy technologies like Adam Back's prototype Eternity service. In truth, he has lost all interest in cryptography and now spends his time talking about guns and making racist comments. He wonders why the cypherpunks list no longer attracts quality cryptographic ideas. He need look no farther than the nearest mirror. His violent rants and his off-topic, offensive posts have done more than anything to drive good people off the list. The single best thing that could happen to the cypherpunks list (and the cypherpunks movement, for that matter) would be for Tim May to leave the list and disassociate himself from the cypherpunks. He would be much more comfortable joining the KKK and the local militia. After him, Paul Bradley, William Geiger and Dimitri Vulis can follow. This will leave fine thinkers with good hearts like Adam Back, Bill Stewart, Wei Dai and others, people who still believe that cryptography can make a strong contribution to our freedom. From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Thu Jan 8 12:13:12 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:13:12 +0800 Subject: MS Server Gated Crypto: strong encryption w/ exportable browsers if the server is US-OK Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15D0@exna01.securitydynamics.com> Netscape got this deal quite some time ago, so it's hardly a special priviliege for MS. It lets certain (trusted by the US government) servers to use strong encryption with US products outside of the US. Peter Trei Disclaimer: I am not speaking for my employer. > ---------- > From: David Honig[SMTP:honig at otc.net] > Reply To: David Honig > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 12:02 PM > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: MS Server Gated Crypto: strong encryption w/ exportable > browsers if the server is US-OK > > > The jist of > http://eu.microsoft.com/industry/finserv/m_finserv/m_fordev_g.htm > is, MS has US permission to export a DLL containing 128-bit SSL > *worldwide* > since > the encryption is enabled IFF there's a Verisign "SGC certificate" on > the > *server*. > This apparently will work with Netscape servers in addition to IIS. [...] > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David Honig Orbit Technology > honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu > > "How do you know you are not being deceived?" > ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, > Directorate of Intelligence, CIA > > > > > > > > > > > > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Thu Jan 8 12:15:48 1998 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Brian Franks) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:15:48 +0800 Subject: Search Engines Message-ID: <199801081853.KAA26269@toad.com> I saw your listing on the internet. Get your web site(s) submitted to over 250 of the worlds best search engines for only $39.95! (Yahoo, Lycos, AOL, Excite, Hotbot, Linkstar, Webcrawler, and hundreds others). A professional will view your site and put together a list of the best key words and submit your site: mailing you the computer print out of ALL the search engines your site(s) were submitted to. (you should have in 5-10 days) To put your web site in the fast lane and receive more traffic, mail your check for only $39.95 to NetWorld at the below address. To start your submission today, fax a copy of the check you are mailing to (760) 639-3551 and be SURE to include BOTH the web site address and email address for each site you are having submitted. This is a one time fee. Mail Checks to NetWorld PO Box 326 Oceanside, CA. 92049 Sincerely, Brian Franks NetWorld http://www.max2001isp.com/networld/submit.htm (800) 484-2621 X5568 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 8 12:43:29 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:43:29 +0800 Subject: FWD: AES Update - Known Answer Tests, Monte Carlo Tests, syntax, and formats Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108111305.0088ba60@popd.ix.netcom.com> >X-Sender: foti at csmes.ncsl.nist.gov >Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:41:40 -0500 >To: smid at csmes.ncsl.nist.gov >From: Jim Foti >Subject: AES Update - Known Answer Tests, Monte Carlo Tests, syntax, > and formats > >Folks, > >A Happy New Year to you all! 1998 should be quite exciting and hectic for >all of us involved in the AES development effort. > >Here is the latest news regarding AES. I have just posted Known Answer >Test and Monte Carlo Test documentation on our AES home page. The actual >link is: . > >Information on the API should be made available within several weeks - we >are actively and diligently working on that. When that information is >posted, I will send you a notification message similar to this one. > >In addition, we will soon have a survey for you which will be used to >expedite the exportability of AES analysis packages (which will be made >available when we announce the "complete and proper" submissions later this >summer). More information to follow soon. > >As with past messages, this is being sent to all persons who have expressed >an interest in the AES development effort (one way or another) within the >last year. > >Kindest regards, >Jim > > > >******************************************************************* >Jim Foti > >Security Technology Group >Computer Security Division >National Institute of Standard and Technology (NIST) > >TEL: (301) 975-5237 >FAX: (301) 948-1233 > >******************************************************************* > > From guy at panix.com Thu Jan 8 13:04:02 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:04:02 +0800 Subject: Vulis again Message-ID: <199801081949.OAA25833@panix2.panix.com> > Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is > completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is > cross-ruminated. > > | | > | O | Tim C. May > (--|--) > | > / \ Talk about reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated... Vulis must be getting old. ---guy So, die, already. From guy at panix.com Thu Jan 8 13:16:03 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:16:03 +0800 Subject: The Digital Society Group Message-ID: <199801081954.OAA26406@panix2.panix.com> > From jalonz at openworld.com Thu Jan 8 02:19:34 1998 > Received: from openworld.com (www.openworld.com [205.157.133.52]) > by mail1.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with SMTP id CAA24973 > for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:19:34 -0500 (EST) > From: jalonz at openworld.com > Received: by openworld.com(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 85256586.00285987 ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:20:43 -0500 > X-Lotus-FromDomain: OPENWORLD.COM > To: Information Security , cyberpunks at toad.net Cyberpunks? You really know how to score points! > Message-ID: <85256586.00280ED7.00 at openworld.com> > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:22:05 -0500 > Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Status: R > > > ># SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. > ># > ># Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal > ># investigations. Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased > data, > ># password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry. > > > >Isn't that last item special? > > > >---guy > > > > And a possible reason for heading the other way. > > guy, > > tough noogies > > deal with it... > > Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could > actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually > quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) > and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. > > :) > jqz Just curious what your reaction would be to that ambiguous statement. Having done DA support, I expect you are quite serious about heading the other way to give users security and anonymity. How do you justify both, since the "bad guys" would benefit? ---- It's the other stuff: that you flit around (people posting "Where are you Jalon Q. Zimmerman?"), that The Digital Society doesn't have its own domain, but is hosted by some other company called "OpenWorld", which has AOL contact addresses... Who is Mark Frazier, who owns OpenWorld, how long has it been in business, what is your relationship to them, what is your job description? Is OpenWorld another startup that is going to go ? The OpenWorld pages read like any other company BS, and you've given yourself the lofty title "Director". Yeah, and we have Sir Timothy May, Dr. Dim Vulvis, etc. You're about 26, and full of hot air. ---guy You mean well. ;-) From Cindy at McGlashan.com Thu Jan 8 13:26:58 1998 From: Cindy at McGlashan.com (Cindy Cohn) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:26:58 +0800 Subject: How about a Bay Area Cypherpunks meeting 1/17/98? Message-ID: <199801082007.MAA29096@gw.quake.net> At 11:03 PM 12/20/97 -0500, Simon Spero wrote: >On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, Bill Stewart wrote: > >The 17th also happens to be just after a W3C meeting in Palo Alto. I was >planning to spend the day hanging at the mall with Chelsea, but this could >be fun too... I'm sorry, I won't be available on January 17th. Cindy ************************ Cindy A. Cohn McGlashan & Sarrail, P. C. 177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor San Mateo, CA 94402 (650) 341-2585 (tel) (650)341-1395 (fax) Cindy at McGlashan.com http://www.McGlashan.com From dm0 at avana.net Thu Jan 8 13:30:27 1998 From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:30:27 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B560A2.2F2C@avana.net> Tim May wrote: > Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's > Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when > he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he > needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) You may have seen the same TV show I saw on him. I really enjoyed it. Is there any evidence that he got (ahem) outside funding for his project? In the back of my paranoid mind, I wondered that since he was dealing with elliptic curves and modular arithmetic if... I mean, how did he pay his mortgage? The show implied that he was not doing any real teaching most of that time, and if no one at the school knew of his work, then where was the money coming from? --David Miller From pooh at efga.org Thu Jan 8 13:36:12 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:36:12 +0800 Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108152654.03ba8028@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> At 10:45 AM 1/8/98 -0800, David Miller wrote: >> An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making >> the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was >> not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read it. > >I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, >but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours >and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to >you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by >USPS employees. I wasn't commenting on the legality, but on the fact that the USPS web page was making the claim that it was a crime. Apparently whoever wrote the legal disclaimer felt that email could be misdelivered in the same fashion in which postal mail could be misdelivered and was making this claim. I found the claim to be nutty and made me think they didn't know what they were doing. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 8 13:44:43 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:44:43 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:26 PM -0800 1/8/98, David Miller wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's >> Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when >> he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he >> needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) > >You may have seen the same TV show I saw on him. I really enjoyed it. No, I didn't get my information from television. I presume you mean the "Nova" show some months back. >Is there any evidence that he got (ahem) outside funding for his project? >In the back of my paranoid mind, I wondered that since he was dealing with >elliptic curves and modular arithmetic if... I mean, how did he pay his >mortgage? The show implied that he was not doing any real teaching most >of that time, and if no one at the school knew of his work, then where was >the money coming from? Why don't you use the Web and report what you find? I'm not inclined to go out and do this research to answer your questions. (I just found 800 hits on his name, including biographical material.) If, by the way, you are surmising that he may've received NSA funding, this seems dubious. Just because "elliptic functions" are involved.... In any case, his salary was paid by Princeton for most or all of those years. As he had no equipment to buy, no students to support...his costs were low. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 8 13:50:42 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:50:42 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <2257f75e9d4378c573ebe49c9a1d7acc@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: [A reminder: people continue to use the "cypherpunks at toad.com" address. Please start using one of the real addresses!] At 9:46 PM -0800 1/7/98, Robert A. Costner wrote: >Perhaps the use of a remailer for this message below is an attempt to >escape the criminal provisions of the No Electronic Theft Act. > >>From: Anonymous Yep, expect a lot more of this. As the Copyright Police descend on more "violators" of the NETA, more folks will realize the remailers are their best protection. (Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From 30469616 at juno.com Fri Jan 9 06:04:15 1998 From: 30469616 at juno.com (30469616 at juno.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:04:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: WHY NOT GIVE ME A CALL....... Message-ID: <12876de 0> HEY MAN ! THE HOTEST LIVE PHONE SEX EVER YOU CAN CHOOSE FROM 1 TO 1 OR A PARTY LINE.. THE BEST DATING SERVICE EVER. I'M ALL HOT AND WET AND WAITING FOR YOU WE WIL LIVE OUR BEST MOMENTS TOGETHER CALL ME FOR THE BEST PHONE SEX EVER CALL ME NOW AT : 1-268-404-6628 NO CREDIT CARD NEEDED, NO 900 NUMBER, FOR REAL ADULTS ONLY CALL NOW 1-268-404-6628 From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 8 14:09:18 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:09:18 +0800 Subject: Jalon'sWorld and Evil Money Laundering In-Reply-To: <85256586.0029E630.00@openworld.com> Message-ID: At 11:37 PM -0800 1/7/98, jalonz at openworld.com wrote: >Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could >actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually >quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) >and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. And what is morally wrong with "money laundering"? Seems to me a person's money is his to do with it as he pleases...it's only governments that call some actions "money laundering." Just as they call some speech "information laundering." And do you think your "Digital Society" notion (which we've seen many times before, usually involving floating, offshore entities) will somehow not attract or involve "Chinese mafia money launderers"? Do you plan to implement key escrow so you can monitor what your residents are doing with each other? Do you plan to become a floating police state so as to stop this evil "money laundering"? I don't think you've quite grasped the significance of strong crypto and cyberspace. (For starters, an intentional community in cyberspace, situated in no particular country, and backed by strong crypto, digital escrow systems (real escrow, of course), reputation systems, etc. is a far better place to do business of certain sorts than is "Jalon'sWorld.") I suspect that Guy is right, that your "Digital Society" shtick is just the latest in your long series of "new businesses" started in many places in the country. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Thu Jan 8 14:09:25 1998 From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:09:25 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801081204.EAA28274@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is > completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is > cross-ruminated. > > | | > | O | Tim C. May > (--|--) > | > / \ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pooh at efga.org Thu Jan 8 14:29:13 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:29:13 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108004628.03b6bbe8@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108162541.0371f1f0@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> At 12:47 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >(Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the >CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) Unfortunately you are semi wrong here. The CDA specifically does not cover Intellectual property matters, and the SPA has consistently insisted that the ISPs are liable for what their users do with copyrighted materials. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Jan 8 14:32:29 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:32:29 +0800 Subject: time-stamp server uses (Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <199801081450.OAA00500@server.eternity.org> Robert Costner writes: > [...] The timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally > signed message. Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, > though I have had a hard time justifying the need for this to some > technically inclined people. One use for time-stamping is to allow digital signatures to out-live the validity period of a given public private key pair. If the time-stamped signature shows that the document was signed during the life-time of the signing key pair this provides additional assurance that the signature is still valid despite the fact that the key is now marked as expired, or was say later compromised and revoked. Lots of other uses for time-stamping services also; I thought of a use for them in the eternity service in preventing race conditions. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Hi, The Austin Cypherpunks will be holding a physical meeting on Saturday, January 17th, 1998. It will be from 6-7pm at Flipnotics on Barton Springs Rd. The meeting is open to all. If you would like directions please send a note to austin-cpunks at ssz.com. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From mclow at owl.csusm.edu Thu Jan 8 15:00:54 1998 From: mclow at owl.csusm.edu (Marshall Clow) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:00:54 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:25 PM -0800 1/8/98, Robert A. Costner wrote: >At 12:47 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >>(Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the >>CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) > >Unfortunately you are semi wrong here. The CDA specifically does not cover >Intellectual property matters, and the SPA has consistently insisted that >the ISPs are liable for what their users do with copyrighted materials. > I had a professor in college who called this kind of argument "Proof by repeated assertion". That is what the SPA (a private organization) is doing. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jan 8 15:09:37 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:09:37 +0800 Subject: HAYEKWEB: Hackney on Law & Econ History & Hayek Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:56:33 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Gregransom Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: HAYEKWEB: Hackney on Law & Econ History & Hayek To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Hayek on the Web << -- Law & Economics "Law and Neoclassical Economics: Science, Politics, and the Reconfiguration of American Tort Law Theory" by James R. Hackney, Jr. on the Web at: http://www.press.uillinois.edu/journals/lhrforums.html >From "Law and Neoclassical Economics: Science, Politics, and the Reconfiguration of American Tort Law Theory" by James R. Hackney, Jr.: " .. C. The Antistatist Imperative: F. A. Hayek and the Road to Law and Neoclassical Economics The technique of analysis coming out of early twentieth-century Vienna was not linked to any particular ideological position. In fact, Janik and Toulmin illustrate that the fundamental position could be characterized as "apolitical." However, F. A. Hayek independently provided a distinct ideological position shaped by the Viennese experience41 that had a profound impact on ideological debates in post-World War II America and, by extension, on economic analysis. Hayek's migration to England influenced the LSE debates that are crucial to understanding the strands of economic thought that framed Coase's work in particular, and law and neoclassical economics in general. In addition, Hayek directly shaped the law and neoclassical economics project at the University of Chicago.42 Hayek stated his ideological position in The Road to Serfdom.43 He asserted that Serfdom "is a political book" and that "all I shall have to say is derived from certain ultimate values."44 Written while Hayek held a professorship at the LSE, Serfdom was conceived as a direct response to a socialist ethos that permeated the European continent and endangered the liberal underpinnings of English politics. The goal of the book was to sound a "warning to the socialist intelligentsia of England"45 that their program would lead to the very totalitarianism so many had fought against. Despite its focus on the English intellectual scene, the book had an enormous impact in the United States.46 In fact, it produced a more extreme reaction, both positive and negative, in the United States than in England. No doubt part of the consternation on the American left was due to the boldness and scope of Serfdom.47 While the argument that "hot socialism" would poison a society might not have unsettled leftists, Hayek made similar claims regarding the welfare state.48 The problem articulated in Serfdom was that some of the core beliefs of hot socialism had become so embedded in the conceptual framework of intellectual thought that they threatened to undermine liberal society under the guise of the welfar state or egalitarian rhetoric. This would come, for example, in the form of knee-jerk calls for state/bureaucratic intervention in the economy when "judicious use of financial inducements might evoke spontaneous efforts."49 The polemical force of Serfdom stemmed from its evocation of the dangers of totalitarianism, particularly the Nazi Germany variety, manifest in social approaches to the ills that befall society. Hayek boldly and flatly asserted that "[i]t is necessary now to state the unpalatable truth that it is Germany whose fate we are in some danger of repeating."50 The core of the antistatist stance as articulated in Serfdom grew out of the belief in the uniqueness of individual activity and thought ("ethical individualism"). It was unacceptable, in fact impossible, for anyone other than the individual to make decisions for the individual without imposing an alien set of values. At that point, seemingly benign policy prescriptions dissolved into naked, unjustifiable coercion. Thus, "individuals should be allowed, within defined limits, to follow their own values and preferences rather than somebody else's."51 In the antigovernment sentiment and proincentive policies articulated in Serfdom, we see the ideological seeds that helped influence, but were not determinative of, the American law and neoclassical economics movement. The ways in which the antistatist ideal set forth in Serfdom would be reflected in social institutions are clear in Hayek's discussion of the legal system and are fundamental in linking his intellectual project to the law and neoclassical economics movement. Hayek's views on the legal system were shaped by his core belief that "competition" is the central means of "co-ordinating human effort" and the "conviction that, where effective competition can be created, it is a better way of guiding individual efforts than any other."52 Thus, in the effort to protect the individual, it is free market competition, not government intervention, that is presumed to be for the good. So, what of the law "[I]n order that competition should work beneficially, a carefully thought-out legal framework is required. ." In particular, some legal structure may be needed in order to accurately reflect the price of goods and services, which is the vital information for individuals.53 In sum, the law serves to facilitate competition, which is the system most conducive to individual freedom. It does so by setting the boundaries of competition. The law should "recognize the principle of private property and freedom of contract." In this regard, it acts as a neutral arbiter facilitating individual preferences and defining the "right to property as applied to different things." The rights associated with property, notwithstanding antistatist ideals, were not absolute, but contingent upon the particular situation. Efficiency was the criterion: the "systematic study of the forms of legal institutions which will make the competitive system work efficiently." Regarding legal rules specifically, Serfdom articulated a system in which "[t]he only question . . . is whether in the particular instance the advantages gained are greater than the social costs which they impose."54 Hayek's emphasis on legal rules, particularly as they affected social costs,55 is the link connecting him to the law and neoclassical economics movement. Hayek gave a detailed analysis of social costs and the limits of government intervention as a tool for minimizing such costs. However, to the extent that legal rules limiting property rights represent an activist role for government, Hayek stated that, though the scope of this permissible intervention on individual autonomy was not defined, "these tasks provide, indeed, a wide and unquestioned field for state activity."56 I argue below that the possibility of "state activity" within neoclassical economics provides the ground for progressive political appropriation of neoclassical economics. This discussion of postwar antistatism, as represented by Serfdom, and its logical progression to concrete neoclassical analyses of legal institutions, specifically property rights, begins to substantiate the first major claim of this essay: law and neoclassical economics is, at its core, about politics. It also shows how the conservative politics associated with neoclassical economics could be taken seriously if the dangers of progressivism articulated in Serfdom, including progressive ideals espoused by pragmatic instrumentalists, were heeded.57 Now we turn to the connections between neoclassical economics and the science of the analytic turn in order to begin establishing the other claim of this paper: law and neoclassical economics is, at its core, also about science. At the end, we find that there is a synthesis of the politics and science of law and neoclassical economics .. " >From "Law and Neoclassical Economics: Science, Politics, and the Reconfiguration of American Tort Law Theory" by James R. Hackney, Jr. Law and History Review. Vol. 15, No. 2, Fall 1997 >From "'Law and Neoclassical Economics': A Response to Commentaries 163-172" by James R. Hackney, Jr.: " .. I never identify Hayek as a "neoclassical economist" but I think it is (1) fair to say that Hayek, and Austrian economics generally, have had considerable influence on neoclassical theory;16 and, more importantly for my thesis, (2) Hayek has had a profound influence on the strand of law and neoclassical economics coming out of the University of Chicago.17 (footnote 17. Coase's recognition of his intellectual debt to F. A. Hayek and the institutional role Hayek played in establishing law and neoclassical economics studies at the University of Chicago is illustrative of this point. Hackney, "Law and Neoclassical Economics," 284, n. 42, 306, n. 141.) .. " >From "'Law and Neoclassical Economics': A Response to Commentaries 163-172" by James R. Hackney, Jr. _Law and History Review_ Vol. 16, No. 1, Spring 1998. Hayek on the Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Jan 8 15:32:13 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:32:13 +0800 Subject: The Digital Society Group In-Reply-To: <199801081954.OAA26406@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <199801082237.RAA09999@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801081954.OAA26406 at panix2.panix.com>, on 01/08/98 at 02:54 PM, Information Security said: >Having done DA support, I expect you are quite serious >about heading the other way to give users security >and anonymity. How do you justify both, since the >"bad guys" would benefit? Well just because the DA says someone is a BadGuy(TM) does not make it so. I for one would feel safer with the majority of BadGuys(TM) as neighbors than I would with Lawyers and DA's. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLVSzo9Co1n+aLhhAQHhlgP/ajGh6pYuVrvzWIhPXKNv02HZAigRHgk2 z0sXTMZt+K0LDOx6gC6RGtiYtjOcQeoFvnGiw10PSu/6R7L5FXE/EmTI8Mpatx8b vW5Ql89HBwZFOd3UwCQ/g4uFQTotUocXMyCLZszhkHAvPywDMU3nHDaJXXQgOIx8 z1gSN9T6G3g= =+3Pc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Jan 8 16:01:56 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:01:56 +0800 Subject: time-stamp server uses (Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto) In-Reply-To: <199801081450.OAA00500@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801082306.SAA10265@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801081450.OAA00500 at server.eternity.org>, on 01/08/98 at 02:50 PM, Adam Back said: >Robert Costner writes: >> [...] The timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally >> signed message. Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, >> though I have had a hard time justifying the need for this to some >> technically inclined people. >One use for time-stamping is to allow digital signatures to out-live the >validity period of a given public private key pair. If the time-stamped >signature shows that the document was signed during the life-time of the >signing key pair this provides additional assurance that the signature is >still valid despite the fact that the key is now marked as expired, or >was say later compromised and revoked. No it does not. The date that a Key becomes comprimised and the date that the owner of a Key knowns it is comprimised are two very different things and somthing that time-stamping can not solve. You also have at issue of what does one do with long term signatures if the undelying technology is broken. Say you sign a 30yr morgage electronically and 15yrs latter the algorithms that were used and now broken. Not to mention what does one do when the time-stamping key is comprimised. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLVZgY9Co1n+aLhhAQF5HAQAvGRMd3YWhcQiZyaYrK7EJ46JC53E92h9 IR6QuO3rew6wdwUNavg6TPRgpF8L9kXAKaH35IFePBvfsSKzoCMxsSpdcoo4RuMx ZMqa81jWaJmKBNjAhyD1qSwsgiQnXaAEcAV7mIa3AboUm8bfA1JbfwiA/SE7i/g2 uF08Pnh90Yw= =KT64 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From declan at well.com Thu Jan 8 16:28:42 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:28:42 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108004628.03b6bbe8@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: I would be very afraid of relying on the CDA's immunizing provisions as my sole defense against prosecution, conviction, and jail time, were I a remailer operator. -Declan At 12:47 -0800 1/8/98, Tim May wrote: >(Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the >CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Thu Jan 8 16:28:43 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:28:43 +0800 Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Bill Frantz wrote: > I don't plan on using it, but the Swedes have a bit of an installed base > problem. Lotus made not secret of their GAK implementation in Notes. If the Swedish government bought Notes anyway, they have only themselves and the incompetence of their IS people to blame. Now they have to scrap a recently fielded system. Though luck. Better solutions than Notes were out there and easily to be found by the most casual buyer. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From declan at well.com Thu Jan 8 17:02:39 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:02:39 +0800 Subject: "Trade a Tape, Go to Jail?" from Wired News Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:46:37 -0500 From: Steve Silberman To: declan at well.com Subject: Re: FC: How long you'll be in jail for copyright violations Declan: An interesting corrollary to the Netly story - I wrote an article for Wired News today that might be of interest to anyone who trades tapes on the Net, especially those who post their "lists" to the Web and accept cash for trades - even when there is no profit involved. "Trade a Tape, Go to Jail?" http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/9532.html Steve ********************************** Steve Silberman Senior Culture Writer WIRED News http://www.wired.com/ *********************************** From jalonz at openworld.com Thu Jan 8 17:05:24 1998 From: jalonz at openworld.com (jalonz at openworld.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:05:24 +0800 Subject: Jalon'sWorld and Evil Money Laundering Message-ID: <85256586.0081E136.00@openworld.com> >>Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could >>actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually >>quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) >>and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. >And what is morally wrong with "money laundering"? Seems to me a person's >money is his to do with it as he pleases...it's only governments that call >some actions "money laundering." Just as they call some speech "information >laundering." I personally dont see money laundering as a "bad" thing, but fraud definitely is. What you do with your money is your business as long as you dont hurt someone else. This was not the case. (IMHO) >And do you think your "Digital Society" notion (which we've seen many times >before, usually involving floating, offshore entities) will somehow not >attract or involve "Chinese mafia money launderers"? I'm sure it will. >Do you plan to implement key escrow so you can monitor what your residents >are doing with each other? Do you plan to become a floating police state so >as to stop this evil "money laundering"? Hell no, I personally do not think it would not be practical, moral or cost-effective to use key-escrow methods. Key escrow empowers governments, not individuals - at the cost of the individuals right to privacy. >I don't think you've quite grasped the significance of strong crypto and >cyberspace. has anyone? >(For starters, an intentional community in cyberspace, situated in no >particular country, and backed by strong crypto, digital escrow systems >(real escrow, of course), reputation systems, etc. is a far better place to >do business of certain sorts than is "Jalon'sWorld.") Then why doesn't someone do it? Like I said we have to start somewhere. >I suspect that Guy is right, that your "Digital Society" shtick is just the >latest in your long series of "new businesses" started in many places in >the country. Well it definitely is the latest and it definitely is one of many, so your suspicions are correct. BTW, The Digital Society Group has been selected to deploy the entire Digital Society Package within the new Agulhas Bay Free Zone in the People's Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe. I'd advise a look at the new content on the Digital Society website. :) Jalon --------------------------------------------------------------- Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director The Digital Society Group A division of Openworld, Inc. http://www.openworld.com/ jalonz at openworld.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The government is not your mommy. --------------------------------------------------------------- From k0zm0z at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 17:22:15 1998 From: k0zm0z at yahoo.com (kozmo killah) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:22:15 +0800 Subject: System Message-ID: <19980108235246.12395.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> which system did you want? ---"Adrian J. Otto" wrote: > > Cosmos, > > Ok, I want to buy. Tell me more details. > > Adrian > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Jan 8 17:43:24 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:43:24 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <34B4CFF0.858FF03C@acm.org> Message-ID: <199801090031.QAA01391@netcom11.netcom.com> >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through >> the open literature. > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) >algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. >Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science >anyway by offering patent protection. a patent is not at all the same as a secrecy order issued by the NSA, and shame on you for suggesting so. we both know you are far more intelligent than this, and this is a feeble argument. how can you possibly compare the two cases? in one case, there is no knowledge whatsoever allowed to leak from a government agency. in the other case, the patent is published in a government forum for searching by anyone. there is no SECRECY in a patent, it in fact is a PUBLIC DECLARATION OF OWNERSHIP supported by a DISCLOSURE system. the NSA and all secret agencies are fundamentally ANTI DISCLOSURE and use their supposed claims of NATIONAL SECURITY to EVADE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PUBLIC and even the namby-pamby, gutless, souless BUREACRATS in congress. Jim G., how many scientists are now working on government WEAPONRY programs? how much money of taxes is being funneled to them? and you compare them with private sector scientists who are scrounging to make ends meet in this twisted con game we call the modern economy? Chomsky is right, its WELFARE FOR BUSINESS via vast subsidies to the so-called "defense" industry. its nothing but WAR TOYS FOR WAR MONGERS. You don't make money by >giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools >and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only >ones who don't merit your censure on this count. what does this have to do with the NSA or weapons development, to which I was referring to in my essay? neither has anything to do with making money, and quite frankly I'm ashamed that someone as intelligent as you would suggest there is any similarity. you're using one of the most feeble arguments in the world. two wrongs do not make a right. "those darn scientists in private industry are into secrecy too. secrecy is a basic part of life on planet earth". perhaps so, but secrecy in GOVERNMENT is ANTITHETICAL to freedom, and there is a direct proportion of the INCREASE IN SECRECY to the INCREASE IN TYRANNY. sorry to RANT but your post makes my blood boil. feel free to have your deluded fantasies in private, but if you post, I'll rant. gosh, JimmyG, have you read about how area 51 was charged with a lawsuit for burning toxic wastes by the widow of a dead employee? would you like me to post it for you? do you hold this up as an example of government accountability? or is it in fact government that no longer serves the people? a government that in fact is in total contempt of its citizens? food for thought, eh? I suppose it would make anyone with a conscience tend to THINK-- presuming they really have one. its a rare quality in these times, don't you think, JimmyG? From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jan 8 17:54:25 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:54:25 +0800 Subject: Fast Elliptic Curve Math Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980109005031.010beb24@pop.pipeline.com> 7 January 1998, Nikkei Industrial Daily Toshiba Unveils Fast Formula For Elliptic-Curve Cryptography Tokyo -- Toshiba Corp. has developed an arithmetic formula which it claims offers the world's fastest processes of elliptic-curve cryptography. The formula cuts processing time by almost half from current methods used in elliptic-curve systems. Toshiba's formula is based on the Montgomery arithmetic system, a special method of calculation which requires no division. Elliptic-curve cryptography is considerably faster than the Rivest Shamir Adleman (RSA) system currently in common use. Toshiba hopes to apply the system in a wide range of fields, including corporate information systems and electronic commerce. ----- Is there other information on this? From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Jan 8 18:00:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:00:02 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801090042.QAA02172@netcom11.netcom.com> every respondent to my post has missed the key points. I will post soon the list an article demonstrating my anger at the betrayal of sound government by a sinister state that has hijacked it. >Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. > >The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or >theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to >publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good scientists for doing so! >Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's >Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when >he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he >needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) but he PUBLISHED his results, he gave a LECTURE on his findings. I am not saying that secrecy and science are mutually exclusive in this way. secrecy is a useful tool, I am not in general against secrecy. but secrecy can be ABUSED, and our government is ABUSING it. have you been following that Clinton was just fined $286,00 for lying to a judge? what do you think it was about? the government LIED that health hearings were being attended only by federal employees, and were thus exempt from mandatory public hearings. a law requires that if private individuals attend, the hearing must be OPEN and not SECRET!! for good reason!! our government is hijacked through SECRECY. in fact the hearing could be public even with federal employees only, and the law should have gone further but only stopped where it did!! >Corporate scientists now outnumber academic or foundation scientists, and >they are quite understandably under various restrictions to keep results >secret, at least for a while. "at least for a while" is the key phrase. "forever" would be false. again, secrecy is a tool. >Science does not "only advance through the open literature." There are many >other checks and balances which accomplish the same effect. name one. I could give >dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was >not used...and science still advanced. but science eventually published the results. the lack of publishing held back science collectively. science had to rediscover something that had already been discovered. it is misleading to suggest that science "advanced" as you do here. those findings that are withheld from the scientific literature do not advance science as a collective human endeavor. how can you argue with something so obvious? all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. From stutz at dsl.org Thu Jan 8 18:16:11 1998 From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:16:11 +0800 Subject: Syn-l: Re: White House Or Red Roof Inn? (fwd) Message-ID: [This message originally appeared on the synergetics-l at , a list for the discussion of R. Buckminster Fuller's magnum opus.] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:38:22 GMT From: Kirby Urner Reply-To: synergetics-l at teleport.com To: synergetics-l at teleport.com Subject: Syn-l: Re: White House Or Red Roof Inn? Newsgroups: alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.org.cia softwar at us.net (softwar at us.net) wrote: >friends inside the White House. Barth claimed the British were >already selling encrypted radios to China and his new boss, >Motorola, deserved a "level playing field". In fact, according >to Barth, the National Security Agency (NSA) agreed with >Motorola's request for export. > I want to be clear on your position: you are apparently against administration efforts to frustrate domestic access to strong encryption. This makes sense, since that would just put the domestic population behind the rest of the world, which has access to same through other channels. But are you saying companies like Motorola should not sell encrypted radio or television to clients not classified as "domestic"? Or is it just some clients (e.g. the Chinese) but not others that you're saying Motorola should turn away. Sounds to me like you're picking on the Chinese because they're an easy target, after all the brouhaha about where the DNC has been getting its money (are you so sure the British have never helped put their preferred candidate in power through banking channels? Is this really a new game? I think not -- USAers just aren't used to having the Asians playing it, but in retrospect you have to wonder what took them so long). My view is that we're fast coming to (already well passed?) the point where we're going to have to regard lethal-against -humans applications of high technology as uniformly negative wherever they occur -- exceptions will be few and far between. Big money is seeing a secure path into the future, but not if high explosives are factored in as wild cards -- like you're trying to plan the motherboard of a computer and some politician comes in and says "by the way, every now and then we plan to blow a whole section of circuitry sky high, maybe explode a chip or two -- think you can handle that?" The Intel engineers I know would all shake their heads and think this guy must be missing more than a few screws. Computers need it cold. The temperature needs to keep dropping, down, down, down -- to way below what jingoists and knee-jerk patriots of all stripes and coloration find comfortable, but which delicate high technology absolutely must have to operate with any integrity. Motherboard Earth is not some Hollywood movie set, where misguided Rambos can run amuk at will. Save that stuff for the video parlor or the schoolyard, where it's safe to indulge in less than grown-up behavior. If the Qualcomm kid was even inadvertently feeding data to GIS systems bound for the "brains" of Tomahawk cruise missles aimed at "external" (non-domestic) targets in another hemisphere, then Qualcomm is liable to go down in history as a felonious player, a villain. One just can't afford to misrepresent one's true intentions so blatantly and expect to survive as trusted player. Using GIS and GPS to make flying safer is a positive civilian use of the technology, but if those planes are carrying weapons of mass destruction (armed and dangerous), then we're certainly going to follow the chain of command right to the top and find out exactly what logic is driving this design decision -- like why are you wearing a gun coming into a crowded civilian restaurant Mr. CEO President? People who want to flaunt terrifying weaponry had better come clean under interrogation, or own up to a "terrorist" charge -- applied without regard for skin color, creed, or place of origin. The econosphere has become very sophisticated and techno- logical, all the more delicate and sensitive as a result of the human presence. We could have a pretty good world here in fact, if we're willing to treat it with the respect owing any high precision instrument. People who plan to simply barrel ahead with lethal weapons planning, come what may, need to provide some iron clad logic for this course or their trackers and backers simply will kiss them good buy (and good riddance) for failing to offer any credible scenarios worth funding. Big ticket weaponry just doesn't have that same sex appeal anymore, has "boondoggle" written on it even before they get off the drawing board. Like "who's gonna pay for this shit?" is the first question smart money asks. Best to not hide behind "national security" shields as in the past at this point, is what I advise the corporate R&D divisioins -- because now you know that security chiefs don't necessarily buy the company hype anymore. You better have it in writing where you got your orders, if you want to plead "not guilty" and pass the buck on up the line. So if you want to play profitable commerical games in the civilian sector, don't be so sure your weaponry subsidiaries will escape scrutiny, and don't count on preferential enforcement of statutes to protect your namebrand from being utterly trashed if you turn out to be defrauding the very people you make such a noise about wanting to protect. The people are waking up, some of them, and are finding out they don't like what's been taking place in their name. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 18:38:04 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:38:04 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090201.UAA06101@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 16:42:43 -0800 > From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > every respondent to my post has missed the key points. Not quite. Of course I don't agree with all of them either. There are two rules you should consider: - It's ok to have an open mind, just don't let it slosh out on the ground. - Understanding a view is not equivalent to supporting a view. You might also want to consider that two opposing views might very well *both* be right...it depends on where you sit on the fence as to what the tree looks like. > >Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. > > > >The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or > >theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to > >publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. > > if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing > results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist > who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good > scientists for doing so! I must agree here. If a technologist (ie one who studies science for profit, hence creating a technology) chooses not to publish their results that is fine. However, a scientist is one who studies nature and its interactions, profit is not and should not be a motive. Simplistic or not; in fact some things are better understood when simplified (ala the scientific principle). A scientist has an obligation to discuss and publish their results for other scientists (and even technologist) when they are reasonably sure their results will stand up to indipendant verification (a critical issue in science, not in technology however). Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* curiosity. > >Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's > >Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when > >he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he > >needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) > > but he PUBLISHED his results, he gave a LECTURE on his findings. I am > not saying that secrecy and science are mutually exclusive in this way. > secrecy is a useful tool, I am not in general against secrecy. but > secrecy can be ABUSED, and our government is ABUSING it. Further, the *reason* he was so secretive was because of the history of failed attempts and early 'proofs' that later failed. He was motivated by getting it right and ruining his reputation; not because he thought proving Fermat's Last Theorem would provide him riches and laurels for the remainder of his mortal coil. > have you > been following that Clinton was just fined $286,00 for lying to > a judge? Which means, per the Constitution, that he should be removed from office. He broke a public trust and that means he looses any public station he currently has and is barred from future office. > I could give > >dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was > >not used...and science still advanced. Of course, this is a specious argument. If it was already in the literature it wouldn't be science advancing (learning something that wasn't known before). The whole point to science is to understand and explain what we see and don't see that creates the cosmos we inhabit. Now if your point is that Intel taking some trade secret only they are aware of and using this to make quicker chips is science then you don't know a damn thing about science. > but science eventually published the results. It is *required* for doing 'science', it isn't for doing 'technology'. As a matter of fact a little perusal of history demonstrates that science requires open and unhindered dialog while technology requires closed channels of communcication and mechanisms of control. A perfect current example is the move to cloan humans. The guy, Creed?, is right "you can't stop science"; you can however stop technology and businesses do every day. Until that oocyte goes viable it's science, from that point on it's technology. > human endeavor. how can you argue with something so obvious? You don't know Timmy very well do you... > all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an > essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my > big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. Actualy your mistake is assuming that there is *one* morality. Don't fret though. Just about everyone wants to jam everyone else into their nice little easily understood molds. It makes it much easier to justify their actions to themselves and potentialy to others if they get them to swallow even once. > of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder > Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. Reasonable men don't change the world. If we aren't motivated by our ethics and belief that our actions can change the world into the way it 'should be' then what is the motive? Money? Even that is a veiled mechanism to make the world the way we think it should be (ie we have more money or social station than currently endowed with). Changing the world is what *makes* life worth living. The question *is* why do you want to change the world and *who* gets to profit by it? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 8 18:55:56 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:55:56 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801090251.DAA10017@basement.replay.com> On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I would be very afraid of relying on the CDA's immunizing provisions as my > sole defense against prosecution, conviction, and jail time, were I a > remailer operator. Could you clarify what you mean by that? From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 8 19:45:45 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:45:45 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:42 PM -0800 1/8/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >every respondent to my post has missed the key points. >I will post soon the list an article demonstrating my >anger at the betrayal of sound government by a sinister state >that has hijacked it. Have they begun torturing you with the snakes of Medusa yet? ... >if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing >results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist >who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good >scientists for doing so! "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was about to announce similar conclusions. Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone requirement? Of course not. >>Science does not "only advance through the open literature." There are many >>other checks and balances which accomplish the same effect. > >name one. Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not. This is just too easy, refuting Detweiler's points. So I'll stop here. >all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an >essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my >big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. >as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what >room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms >of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. I suggest he get his lithium prescription refilled. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 8 20:11:54 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:11:54 +0800 Subject: Jalon'sWorld and Evil Money Laundering In-Reply-To: <85256586.0081E136.00@openworld.com> Message-ID: <30s1ie11w165w@bwalk.dm.com> jalonz at openworld.com writes: > BTW, The Digital Society Group has been selected to deploy the entire > Digital Society Package within the new Agulhas Bay Free Zone in the > People's Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe. Cool. Do you possibly happen to know a source for historical time series: Sa~o Tome Dorba exchange rates to USD and also interest rates at different tenors? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 8 20:15:09 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:15:09 +0800 Subject: Schneier's metrocard cracked Message-ID: I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From honig at otc.net Thu Jan 8 20:18:51 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:18:51 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108190521.007b87d0@otc.net> At 04:42 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. > Methinks you are either tweaking us or are ourselves some 20 years ago.. Assuming the latter. Howdy. Calm down. Everyone eventually considers the Faustian bargains one finds in one's environment, and realizes the bargains that others have made. And one chooses. The universe owes you nothing. Your goals and alliances are yours to choose. Everyone picks what they are comfortable with, and it ain't your business what they decide. No one is obligated to agree with you. And everyone is obligated to let you alone, unless you violate their right to be left alone. But you know this. If there are people w/ evil (and there are), well, stop tirading and deal with it. Route around the damage. You're not going to convince them, face it. Don't fill yourself with hate; mobilize. Run for congress; send spoofmail from the pres; write cryptocode; turn your grandma on to PGP; volunteer to lecture to impressionable youngsters. Once you get over the shock of realizing how much things are not what they are supposed to be, you'll be able to calm down, and think. I'm not an optimist but we have physics and mathematics and economics in our favor, to paraphrase. There *is* a reason to flame but flaming to the choir (or to the unbelievers, for that matter) isn't the solution. On secrecy, Saint Chas. Darwin sat on evolution forever, until he reviewed a paper that was going to scoop him, you know. later, David Honig honig at alum.mit.edu --------------------------------------------------- If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy. -TJ From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 20:20:30 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:20:30 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090442.WAA06633@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:26:11 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. > Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. True, Gauss didn't publish many of his results and he wasn't famed for that either. He *was* famed because he *did* publish some of his works. In fact, if you study Gauss you find a insecure introvert who in general hated his competition. He lied in his correspondance about work he supposedly did (see his relations with Bolyai who was a friend of his from school - "Non-euclidean Geometry" by Roberto Bonola; Dover ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). Yes, Gauss was respected for his math, he was hated for his humanity, or lack thereof. If anything Gauss' bahaviour held back science because of his self-interest. Fermat in general published most of his work, however, much of it was lost including his proof. His statement was that it was too long to be written in the margin of the book, not that he didn't write it down. The implication being that he *had* written it down and it got misplaced or lost it. Both of these folks are *very* poor examples of your point. > Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only > issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was > about to announce similar conclusions. Darwin set on his results because he was aware of the results of his work and the consequence to his career. He felt he needed more stature and as a consequence more security before publishing. He also understood he was right and that the first to publish would go down in history and the second would be an also ran. If you study the others alive at the time there were many people who had suggested similar theories. His own uncle had written similar material several decades before Darwin ever set foot on the Beagle. Darwin didn't invent evolution, he did refine it. Further, Darwin *isn't* know in the scientific community for his two books intended for lay readers. He *is* known for his seminal study of finches and mollusks, both quite clearly demonstrate his beliefs and theories and both had a much bigger impact on the scientific acceptance of evolution than 'Species' ever hoped to have. You are confusing the acceptance by the lay public as equivalent to scientific acceptance. You really should read Mayr. Again, a bad example. > Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very > important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone > requirement? Of course not. Actualy the open discussion of hypothesis and the testing thereof in open and unbiased comparison by indipendant researchers *is* most certainly a requirement in science - your protest not withstanding. > Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an > atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was > correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not. Don't confuse the science of atomic physics with the engineering of building a bomb. They are not the same thing. The majority of the work done to succesfuly understand an atomic bomb was known world wide in the 1920's and early '30's. The engineering to do it along with the money and project management skills motivated by the political where with all to actualy do it didn't. You are confusing affect and effect. > This is just too easy, refuting Detweiler's points. So I'll stop here. Thanks. My smashed finger is starting to hurt and your points are pretty easy to refute as well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org Thu Jan 8 20:21:47 1998 From: wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org (Mark Rogaski) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:21:47 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980108000200.0084fab0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801090404.XAA18655@deathstar.jabberwock.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote: : : At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: : >"Evolution in action." : >Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. : : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... : Actually, natural selection in action ... - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo at pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo at deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster at localhost abuse at localhost uce at ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLWhyXzbrFts6CmBAQH8LQf8D09nOXOktV6P0uCEPKmRc8zc4ho2aXHF t/WhFtgVWIdKNtBqwEYjIy+nS+4Q5Pfj0ZqI2Lj6JVJOpX8B5AqbhiTna7etws4y RhfNMWN1jfA1JHs5BdEnOI5YrkR6HFD9NwtgGIt5sirinuH9kQ5YucxeydOdBw8w mbN1U614rhAaehnVXSQ9v68eTuTWvdeJ+nuLRYblr5JNGsyPvlj3Fb8fQ+9kSod8 o2NCVCkOi3IQzAQWWbyBDS8RWsq77ZR15MRZAN/U5gn5s0Fz8R5Ym3wayEV6CYLv nZ7rtoEEXyM6yjubvVZJB6jYtsE5TJVegO+k0vlocV6jKYsLFxsFtg== =2T8G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 20:28:38 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:28:38 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090451.WAA06712@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:05:21 -0800 > From: David Honig > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > chooses. The universe owes you nothing. That depends on your personal philosophy, or are you claiming to have found "The Way"? (that's rhetorical, please don't respond since the consequencial discussion leads nowhere that we aren't already) > Your goals and alliances are yours to choose. You got to choose your family and what country you were born in and how much money you have? Cool, you should consider yourself truly blessed, in the several 10's of thousands of years of humanity you are the first so gifted. > Everyone picks what they are comfortable with, and it ain't your business > what they decide. No one is > obligated to agree with you. And everyone is > obligated to let you alone, unless you violate their > right to be left alone. But you know this. No, everyone doesn't pick what they are comfortable with. Only somebody that takes their station in life with its consimmitent spoils as a given would say something this idiotic. Nobody is obliged to let you alone unless they decide to of their own volition. It only takes one to make war (the old saying is wrong) it takes two to make peace. And man being what he is wants his own way even at the expense of somebody elses way. Such is the trials and tribulations of social animals. > On secrecy, Saint Chas. Darwin sat on evolution forever, until he reviewed > a paper that was going to scoop him, you know. Oh god, somebody else who hasn't studied Darwin or Meyr.... I covered the rebuttal to this commen folk tale in a reply to Timmy. Look for it... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From brianbr at together.net Thu Jan 8 20:36:18 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:36:18 +0800 Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto Message-ID: <199801090428.XAA02677@mx02.together.net> On 1/8/98 3:26 PM, Robert A. Costner (pooh at efga.org) passed this wisdom: >At 10:45 AM 1/8/98 -0800, David Miller wrote: >>> An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making >>> the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was >>> not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read >it. >> >>I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, >>but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours >>and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to >>you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by >>USPS employees. > >I wasn't commenting on the legality, but on the fact that the USPS web page >was making the claim that it was a crime. Apparently whoever wrote the >legal disclaimer felt that email could be misdelivered in the same fashion >in which postal mail could be misdelivered and was making this claim. I >found the claim to be nutty and made me think they didn't know what they >were doing. Maybe they are confusing an electronic mailbox with a snailmail box ... the USPS has always contended that they (the USPS) "own" your mailbox and use that criterion to prosecute people who drive around putting things like circulars etc in mailboxes. Maybe they we on a role thinking that if they got into the e-mail business they would 'own' that piece of your hard drive so to speak. Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys The Windows PC Versus Macintosh Buying Decision: "If you want to encourage your kids to color outside the lines, think creatively and zig when the other kids zag, get the Mac. On the other hand, if you want to teach your kid that life if full of frustration and that anything worth getting takes plenty of patience and hard work, a Windows machine should do quite nicely." - David Plotnikoff in the San Jose Mercury News From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 8 20:46:44 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:46:44 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090201.UAA06101@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 6:01 PM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at >heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* >curiosity. .... >You don't know Timmy very well do you... Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to favor this usage. Next he'll be putting out ASCII art Jeez, and I don't even recall insulting Choate. Perhaps he got his nose out of joint when I challenged his "all snipers use .223" piece of misinformation. Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one of the Cypherpunks distribution points. BTW, nowhere in my piece did I refer to myself as a "scientist." I spoke of Wiles, and then of Gauss, Fermat, and Darwin. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From declan at well.com Thu Jan 8 20:55:20 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:55:20 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sure. That provision of the CDA was not meant to apply to remailer operators but online services, which cut a deal on that bill. Prosecutors would point, I suspect, to legislative intent and say remailer operators aren't covered; they'd say the text of the law is not unambiguous. It is not an impenetrable shield against time in Club Fed. -Declan At 03:51 +0100 1/9/98, Anonymous wrote: >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >> I would be very afraid of relying on the CDA's immunizing provisions as my >> sole defense against prosecution, conviction, and jail time, were I a >> remailer operator. >Could you clarify what you mean by that? From guy at panix.com Thu Jan 8 21:02:03 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:02:03 +0800 Subject: Schneier's metrocard cracked Message-ID: <199801090440.XAA09818@panix2.panix.com> Dr. Dim wrote: > > I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards > (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the > "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. > > Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? It sounds like a procedural thing. Something like there was a way to swipe cards and have the system wrongly think it updated the card. The city announced that every cardreader in the system is going to be recalibrated, and this will cause problems for "a few" existing cardholders. ---guy From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 8 21:09:17 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:09:17 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090201.UAA06101@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: Jim Choate writes: The Nuriweiller wrote: > > if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing > > results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist > > who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good > > scientists for doing so! > > I must agree here. If a technologist (ie one who studies science for > profit, hence creating a technology) chooses not to publish their results > that is fine. However, a scientist is one who studies nature and its > interactions, profit is not and should not be a motive. Simplistic or not; > in fact some things are better understood when simplified (ala the > scientific principle). A scientist has an obligation to discuss and publish > their results for other scientists (and even technologist) when they are > reasonably sure their results will stand up to indipendant verification (a > critical issue in science, not in technology however). > > Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at > heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* > curiosity. That's a very interesting idea. Consider Fischer Black, who passed away a couple of years ago. His most important contribution to science was the basic Black-Sholes equation. What were his direct economic rewards for having come up with it? Not much, really. He was already a tenured full professor at MIT. However as the result of his discovery he got hired away by Goldman Sachs as a VP, and later became a full partner. He did quite a bit of work at GS; none of it as spectacular as the Black-Scholes equation; almost none of it published in the open literature. Can we say that the bulk of his $50 million was for the research he did while at MIT and not at Goldman (and which benefited everyone in the industry, not just Goldman)? Did Goldman bet that Black would deliver results comparable in importance to the B-S equation, which Goldman would keep proprietary? Did Goldman win this bet (meaning, we wouldn't really know if they did)? I know another guy whom I won't name because he's still alive. He too is a tenured professor and has published numerous papers in refereed journals. His results are used by many people in the financial industry to make money. A few years ago he made an interesting discovery in statistics. Instead of publishing it, he and his coauthor took it to some investors and showed them how to make lots of money trading on these results. The investors then said, basically: yes we signed a nondisclosure agreement, but now that we know what this is about, we're going to use it and we won't pay you a penny and you don't have the money to sue us. Which is precisely what happened; the result is still not published, but is slowly circulating through the quant investing community. The same guy informed me later that he discovered a closed-form solution to some very interesting problems 9related to Black-Scholes) which according to the open literature either can't be done accurately at all, or require incredible amounts of cpu time for monte carlo simulations. he doesn't wish tio publish it (although it would make him quite a celebrity) and now he's going crazy trying to figure out a way to sell it in such a way that he can't get screwed again. How would crypto help if at all? Oh and by the way I suspect that a few minor crypto ideas in my PhD thesis were known to certain British cryptographers in the 30s but never published in the open literature. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 8 21:28:20 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:28:20 +0800 Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <199801090404.XAA18655@deathstar.jabberwock.org> Message-ID: Mark Rogaski writes: > An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote: > : > : At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > : >"Evolution in action." > : >Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. > : > : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... > : > > Actually, natural selection in action ... Same thing... --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From pooh at efga.org Thu Jan 8 21:47:37 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:47:37 +0800 Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <199801090251.DAA10017@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980109004125.006a98ec@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> At 11:42 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Sure. That provision of the CDA was not meant to apply to remailer >operators but online services, which cut a deal on that bill. Prosecutors >would point, I suspect, to legislative intent and say remailer operators >aren't covered; they'd say the text of the law is not unambiguous. I think it would be pretty hard to distinguish the Cracker Remailer from an Internet presence provider. If hotmail or tripod were to be covered under the CDA, then I would have to think Cracker would be as well. EFGA/Cracker offers accounts, has dedicated servers, and has no editorial control over content. At around 20,000 individual messages per week, I'd have to say we are as good of a small online service as anyone else - even if we only offer specialized services. Many ISPs only have 100 or so users and only about 1/6 of the connectivity of Cracker. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Thu Jan 8 21:47:45 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:47:45 +0800 Subject: Encrypted Telephony Products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Jrbl Pookah wrote: > > > I've recently begun looking for internet telephony products that > employ reasonably secure encryption on-the-fly. Now, I've found Nautilus, > and PGPFone, but neither product appears to have been updated for quite a > while now. I was just wondering if anybody could give me recommendations > for more up-to-date products, and perhaps comparisons between those > available. The most popular encrypting Internet telephony product at the moment is SpeekFreely. http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/windows/ Have fun, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 22:03:44 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:03:44 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090626.AAA07213@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:41:47 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) > is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to > favor this usage. We're awful testy tonite aren't we...believe me junior, if I want to jump in your shit I'll do it direct first person and in your face. Since it seems to have got stuck in your craw, I apologize for not asking you the correct usage of your name prior to typing it into my reply. In the future I think I'll use 'that crazy indipendently wealthy ex-Intel technologist and self-important testy gun nut that lives in California who almost got to see John Denvers plane crash'; is *that* ok with you? (not really, I think my fingers would cramp) > Jeez, and I don't even recall insulting Choate. Perhaps he got his nose out > of joint when I challenged his "all snipers use .223" piece of > misinformation. Unfortunately, for you, I never made that claim (if anything you did regarding some comments I made about some police snipers liking .308's) and therefore you didn't get to refute it. Whatever strategy you're on regarding drugs and alcohol, reverse it; the dementia are back. > Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one > of the Cypherpunks distribution points. Been there before, I won't loose any sleep that is for shure. > BTW, nowhere in my piece did I refer to myself as a "scientist." I spoke of > Wiles, and then of Gauss, Fermat, and Darwin. Certainly not directly, but considering your background and past comments it is an assumption that is justified. You most certainly feel qualified to discuss the distinctions and consequences thereof. Me, I consider myself a scientist and have since I was about 6 years old. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From blancw at cnw.com Thu Jan 8 22:10:27 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:10:27 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980108220504.00707df8@cnw.com> NuriLogical is anguished that some people are immoral: >all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an >essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my >big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. >as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what >room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms >of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. ................................................................. As your hero and biggest fan, EH, said: cypherpunks do not wait for other people to become moral; cypherpunks create their own reality. (or something to that effect) How can we know which flaw (for there are many possible) causes a person - scientific or otherwise - to behave like a coward and give up their integrity for the sake of safety or money or an undeserved reputation? How can we know how someone could keep a contradiction in their head, maintaining a position of virtue in the commuity while yet depending on the slavery of those whose benefit they purport to be working for? I guess you will tell us this in your forthcoming article. (Perry, where are you when we need you? :>) just kidding!!) BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care if anyone else saw the results of his work. Once he had solved the problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. .. Blanc From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 8 22:19:37 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:37 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Timmy May demonstrated his ignorance and stupidity by writing: > > At 6:01 PM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: > > >Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at > >heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not > >curiosity. > .... > >You don't know Timmy very well do you... > > Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) > is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to > favor this usage. I like to call Timmy "Timmy" necause it's fun to watch Timmy twitch. > Next he'll be putting out ASCII art +-----#--+ | O # | Which one is Guy Polis | |#__O | and which one is Timmy May? |._#_> \ | +-#------+ Stop AIDS! > Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one > of the Cypherpunks distribution points. When Timmy claims to killfile someone, it really means that he's paying a special obsessive-compulsive attention to anything that person writes. Here, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 8 22:20:09 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:20:09 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090442.WAA06633@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: Jim Choate writes: > > From: Tim May > > > "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. > > Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. > > True, Gauss didn't publish many of his results and he wasn't famed for that > either. He *was* famed because he *did* publish some of his works. In fact, > if you study Gauss you find a insecure introvert who in general hated his > competition. He lied in his correspondance about work he supposedly did (see > his relations with Bolyai who was a friend of his from school - > "Non-euclidean Geometry" by Roberto Bonola; Dover ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). > Yes, Gauss was respected for his math, he was hated for his humanity, or > lack thereof. If anything Gauss' bahaviour held back science because of his > self-interest. Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). While an undergraduate, he was working with a fellow named Szasz on non-euclidean geometry. In 1832 he published his findings as an appendix to his father's textbook. he did show that Euclid's axiom about parallel lines is independent of the others and did explore the geometry that arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. The Russian mathematician Lobachavsky, in Kazan, came up with very similar results at the same time. He announced them at a talk in 1826 and published them in 1829. he was clearly first. There's no evidence that B. knew of L.'s results; these ideas were coming naturally from the work of the other mathematicians at this time. In 1837 B. submitted a paper on quaternions to some sort of competition; it received a very nagative review, which caused him to go crazy. He started working on logical foundations of geometry in weird ways, setting himself goals that he couldn't achieve. Then in 1940 he came across a German translation of Lobachevsky's paper on non-eucldiean geometry. he went totally bonkers, claiming that a) Lobachevsky is not a real person, but a "tentacle" of Gauss; b) that gauss is out to nail him, b) that their result is wrong anyway (although he never explained how). He died relatively young and totally insane. As someone pointed out, much of gauss's writings were not published until after his death. The folsk researching his notes were shocked to discover that Gauss did actually come up with very similar non-euclidean geometry ideas as early as 1818 (not surprisingly - these ideas were literally floating in the air). However he chose not to publish them, not realizing how important they would be, and also fearing that they woudn't be well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about Gauss's work. I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegations Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. By the way, the same gossip prompted the Tom Lehrer song about Lobachevsky. I also don't see how Bolyai could have been gauss's chool friend, being 25 years younger than K.F. And it's not a dichotomy; it's a trichotomy: one can * do research and publish the results in a refereed journal. This is of use only for tenue-track faculty who need to publish to get tenured. Many refereed journals are extrmely political, with "friends" being published ahead of the queue, and "strangers" kept waiting for a couple of years while the "friends" can be advised of the manuscripts and publish their own version of the results. * do research on some practical problems whose solution interests some wealthy folks. Most tenured faculty dream of doing that; many actually do. * do research for fun/as a hobby; some wealthy folks do that, or pay others to do that. > Fermat in general published most of his work, however, much of it was lost > including his proof. His statement was that it was too long to be written in > the margin of the book, not that he didn't write it down. The implication > being that he *had* written it down and it got misplaced or lost it. Fermat was a judge. He did math for fun. (Strictly speaking, he did a lot his mathematical research to facilitate his gambling hobby - at the time when securities investment was viewed as a form of gambling no different from cards, dice, horse races, dog fights/races, cock fights, etc. How is Timmy's bet that INTC will fall (and shorting it, if he's got any brains) different from some Jose's bet that the rooster named Pedro will rip out the guts of the rooster named Jorge? I've known sports gamblers who would bet tens of thusands of dollars on a single game, and they also invested in securities; and the research they did before betting $40K on a basketball game was comparable to the research before taking a similar risk on stocks or bonds. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 8 22:22:48 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:22:48 +0800 Subject: Accounts payable Message-ID: <199801090607.HAA01799@basement.replay.com> Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug. (_) _____ (_) /O O\ Timmy C[rook] May ! I ! ! \___/ ! \_____/ From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 22:29:49 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:29:49 +0800 Subject: Darwin's preface (a short history of evolution) [fwd] Message-ID: <199801090653.AAA07502@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Below is the 3rd preface to Darwin's 'Species', in it he clearly gives credit to Wallace as a co-discover of evolutionary theory. Even to the point of co-presenting the work to the Linnean Society on July 1, 1858. Oh, Erazmus Darwin was Charles' grandfather not uncle. Sorry for any confusion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:46:47 -0600 > X-within-URL: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/origin/preface.html > The Origin of Species > Preface to the Third Edition > by Charles Darwin > > I will here give a brief sketch of the progress of opinion on the > Origin of Species. Until recently the great majority of naturalists > believed that species were immutable productions, and had been > separately created. This view has been ably maintained by many > authors. Some few naturalists, on the other hand, have believed that > species undergo modification, and that the existing forms of life are > the descendants by true generation of pre-existing forms. Passing over > allusions to the subject in the classical writers,(1) the first author > who in modern times has treated it in a scientific spirit was Buffon. > But as his opinions fluctuated greatly at different periods, and as he > does not enter on the causes or means of the transformation of > species, I need not here enter on details. > > Lamarck was the first man whose conclusions on the subject excited > much attention. This justly-celebrated naturalist first published his > views in 1801; he much enlarged them in 1809 in his "Philosophie > Zoologique,' and subsequently, in 1815, in the Introduction to his > "Hist. Nat. des Animaux sans Vert�bres.' In these works he upholds the > doctrine that species, including man, are descended from other > species. He first did the eminent service of arousing attention to the > probability of all change in the organic, as well as in the inorganic > world, being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition. > Lamarck seems to have been chiefly led to his conclusion on the > gradual change of species, by the difficulty of distinguishing species > and varieties, by the almost perfect gradation of forms in certain > groups, and by the analogy of domestic productions. With respect to > the means of modification, he attributed something to the direct > action of the physical conditions of life, something to the crossing > of already existing forms, and much to use and disuse, that is, to the > effects of habit. To this latter agency he seemed to attribute all the > beautiful adaptations in nature; -- such as the long neck of the > giraffe for browsing on the branches of trees. But he likewise > believed in a law of progressive development; and as all the forms of > life thus tend to progress, in order to account for the existence at > the present day of simple productions, he maintains that such forms > are now spontaneously generated.(2) > > Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, as is stated in his 'Life,' written by his > son, suspected, as early as 1795, that what we call species are > various degenerations of the same type. It was not until 1828 that he > published his conviction that the same forms have not been perpetuated > since the origin of all things. Geoffroy seems to have relied chiefly > on the conditions of life, or the 'monde ambiant' as the cause of > change. He was cautious in drawing conclusions, and did not believe > that existing species are now undergoing modification; and, as his son > adds, "C'est donc un probl�me � r�server enti�rement � l'avenir, > suppos� meme que l'avenir doive avoir prise sur lui.' > > In 1813, Dr W. C. Wells read before the Royal Society 'An Account of a > White female, part of whose skin resembled that of a Negro'; but his > paper was not published until his famous 'Two Essays upon Dew and > Single Vision' appeared in 1818. In this paper he distinctly > recognises the principle of natural selection, and this is the first > recognition which has been indicated; but he applies it only to the > races of man, and to certain characters alone. After remarking that > negroes and mulattoes enjoy an immunity from certain tropical > diseases, he observes, firstly, that all animals tend to vary in some > degree, and, secondly, that agriculturists improve their domesticated > animals by selection; and then, he adds, but what is done in this > latter case 'by art, seems to be done with equal efficacy, though more > slowly, by nature, in the formation of varieties of mankind, fitted > for the country which they inhabit. Of the accidental varieties of > man, which would occur among the first few and scattered inhabitants > of the middle regions of Africa, some one would be better fitted than > the others to bear the diseases of the country. This race would > consequently multiply, while the others would decrease; not only from > their inability to sustain the attacks of disease, but from their > incapacity of contending with their more vigorous neighbours. The > colour of this vigorous race I take for granted, from what has been > already said, would be dark. But the same disposition to form > varieties still existing, a darker and a darker race would in the > course of time occur: and as the darkest would be the best fitted for > the climate, this would at length become the most prevalent; if not > the only race, in the particular country in which it had originated.' > He then extends these same views to the white inhabitants of colder > climates. I am indebted to Mr Rowley, of the United States, for having > called my attention, through Mr Brace, to the above passage in Dr > Wells' work. > > The Hon. and Rev. W. Herbert, afterwards Dean of Manchester, in the > fourth volume of the 'Horticultural Transactions,' 1822, and in his > work on the 'Amaryllidaceae' (1837, pp. 19, 339), declares that > 'horticultural experiments have established, beyond the possibility of > refutation, that botanical species are only a higher and more > permanent class of varieties.' He extends the same view to animals. > The Dean believes that single species of each genus were created in an > originally highly plastic condition, and that these have produced, > chiefly by intercrossing, but likewise by variation, all our existing > species. > > In 1826 Professor Grant, in the concluding paragraph in his well-known > paper ('Edinburgh philosophical journal,' vol. xiv. p. 283) on the > Spongilla, clearly declares his belief that species are descended from > other species, and that they become improved in the course of > modification. This same view was given in his 55th Lecture, published > in the 'Lancet' in 1834. > > In 1831 Mr Patrick Matthew published his work on 'Naval Timber and > Arboriculture,' in which he gives precisely the same view on the > origin of species as that (presently to be alluded to) propounded by > Mr Wallace and myself in the 'Linnean journal,' and as that enlarged > in the present volume. Unfortunately the view was given by Mr Matthew > very briefly in scattered passages in an Appendix to a work on a > different subject, so that it remained unnoticed until Mr Matthew > himself drew attention to it in the 'Gardener's Chronicle,' on April > 7th, 1860. The differences of Mr Matthew's view from mine are not of > much importance; he seems to consider that the world was nearly > depopulated at successive periods, and then re-stocked; and he gives > as an alternative, that new forms may be generated ' without the > presence of any mould or germ of former aggregates.' I am not sure > that I understand some passages; but it seems that he attributes much > influence to the direct action of the conditions of life. He clearly > saw, however, the full force of the principle of natural selection. > > The celebrated geologist and naturalist, Von Buch, in his excellent > 'Description physique des Isles Canaries' (1836, p. 147), clearly > expresses his belief that varieties slowly become changed into > permanent species, which are no longer capable of intercrossing. > > Rafinesque, in his 'New Flora of North America,' published in 1836, > wrote (p. 6) as follows:- 'All species might have been varieties once, > and many varieties are gradually becoming species by assuming constant > and peculiar characters'; but farther on (p. 18) he adds, 'except the > original types or ancestors of the genus.' > > In 1843-44 Professor Haldeman ('Boston journal of Nat. Hist. U. > States, vol. iv. p. 468) has ably given the arguments for and against > the hypothesis of the development and modification of species: he > seems to lean towards the side of change. > > The 'Vestiges of Creation' appeared in 1844. In the tenth and much > improved edition (1853) the anonymous author says (p. 155):- 'The > proposition determined on after much consideration is, that the > several series of animated beings, from the simplest and oldest up to > the highest and most recent, are, under the providence of God, the > results, first, of an impulse which has been imparted to the forms of > life, advancing them, in definite times, by generation, through grades > of organisation terminating in the highest dicotyledons- and > vertebrata, these grades being few in number, and generally marked by > intervals of organic character, which we find to be a practical > difficulty in ascertaining affinities; second, of another impulse > connected with the vital forces, tending, in the course of > generations, to modify organic structures in accordance with external > circumstances, as food, the nature of the habitat, and the meteoric > agencies, these being the ''adaptations'' of the natural theologian.' > The author apparently believes that organisation progresses by sudden > leaps, but that the effects produced by the conditions of life are > gradual. He argues with much force on general grounds that species are > not immutable productions. But I cannot see how the two supposed > 'impulses' account in a scientific sense for the numerous and > beautiful co-adaptations which we see throughout nature; I cannot see > that we thus gain any insight how, for instance, a woodpecker has > become adapted to its peculiar habits of Life. The work, from its > powerful and brilliant style, though displaying in the earlier > editions little accurate knowledge and a great want of scientific > caution, immediately had a very wide circulation. In my opinion it has > done excellent service in this country in calling attention to the > subject, in removing prejudice, and in thus preparing the ground for > the reception of analogous views. > > In 1846 the veteran geologist N. J. d'Omalius d'Halloy published in an > excellent though short paper ("Bulletins de l'Acad. Roy Bruxelles,' > tom. xiii. p. 581) his opinion that it is more probable that new > species have been produced by descent with modification than that they > have been separately created: the author first promulgated this > opinion in 1831. > > Professor Owen, in 1849 ('Nature of Limbs,' p. 86), wrote as follows:- > "The archetypal idea was manifested in the flesh under diverse such > modifications, upon this planet, long prior to the existence of those > animal species that actually exemplify it. To what natural laws or > secondary causes the orderly succession and progression of such > organic phenomena may have been committed, we, as yet, are ignorant.' > In his Address to the British Association, in 1858, he speaks (p. li.) > of "the axiom of the continuous operation of creative power, or of the > ordained becoming of living things.' Farther on (p. xc.), after > referring to geographical distribution, he adds, 'These phenomena > shake our confidence in the conclusion that the Apteryx of New Zealand > and the Red Grouse of England were distinct creations in and for those > islands respectively. Always, also, it may be well to bear in mind > that by the word ''creation'' the zoologist means '"a process he knows > not what.'' He amplifies this idea by adding that when such cases as > that of the Red Grouse are enumerated by the zoologists as evidence of > distinct creation of the bird in and for such islands, he chiefly > expresses that he knows not how the Red Grouse came to be there, and > there exclusively; signifying also, by this mode of expressing such > ignorance, his belief that both the bird and the islands owed their > origin to a great first Creative Cause.' If we interpret these > sentences given in the same Address, one by the other, it appears that > this eminent philosopher felt in 1858 his confidence shaken that the > Apteryx and the Red Grouse first appeared in their respective homes, > 'he knew not how,' or by some process 'he knew not what.' > > This Address was delivered after the papers by Mr Wallace and myself > on the Origin of Species, presently to be referred to, had been read > before the Linnean Society. When the first edition of this work was > published, I was so completely deceived, as were many others, by such > expressions as 'the continuous operation of creative power,' that I > included Professor Owen with other palaeontologists as being firmly > convinced of the immutability of species; but it appears ('Anat. of > Vertebrates,' vol. iii. p. 796) that this was on my part a > preposterous error. In the last edition of this work I inferred, and > the inference still seems to me perfectly just, from a passage > beginning with the words 'no doubt the type-form,' &c. (Ibid. vol. i. > p. xxxv.), that Professor Owen admitted that natural selection may > have done something in the formation of a new species; but this it > appears (Ibid. vol. nl. p. 798) is inaccurate and without evidence. I > also gave some extracts from a correspondence between Professor Owen > and the Editor of the 'London Review,' from which it appeared manifest > to the Editor as well as to myself, that Professor Owen claimed to > have promulgated the theory of natural selection before I had done so; > and I expressed my surprise and satisfaction at this announcement; but > as far as it is possible to understand certain recently published > passages (Ibid. vol. iii. p. 798) I have either partially or wholly > again fallen into error. It is consolatory to me that others find > Professor Owen's controversial writings as difficult to understand and > to reconcile with each other, as I do. As far as the mere enunciation > of the principle of natural selection is concerned, it is quite > immaterial whether or not Professor Owen preceded me, for both of us, > as shown in this historical sketch, were long ago preceded by Dr Wells > and Mr Matthews. > > M. Isidore Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, in his lectures delivered in 1850 > (of which a R�sum� appeared in the 'Revue et Nag. de Zoolog.,' Jan. > 1851), briefly gives his reason for believing that specific characters > "sont fix�s, pour chaque esp�ce, tant qu'elle se perp�tue au milieu > des m�mes circonstances: ils se modifient, si les circonstances > ambiantes viennent � changer.' 'En r�sum�, l'observation des animaux > sauvages d�montre d�j� la variabilit� limit� des esp�ces. Les > exp�riences sur les animaux sauvages devenus domestiques, et sur les > animaux domestiques redevenus sauvages, la d�montrent plus clairement > encore. Ces memes exp�riences prouvent, de plus, que les diff�rences > produites peuvent etre de valeur g�n�rique.' In his 'Hist. Nat. > G�n�ral� (tom. ii. p. 430, 1859) he amplifies analogous conclusions. > > From a circular lately issued it appears that Dr Freke, in 1851 > ("Dublin Medical Press,' p. 322), propounded the doctrine that all > organic beings have descended from one primordial form. His grounds of > belief and treatment of the subject are wholly different from mine; > but as Dr Freke has now (1861) published his Essay on the 'Origin of > Species by means of Organic Affinity,' the difficult attempt to give > any idea of his views would be superfluous on my part. > > Mr Herbert Spencer, in an Essay (originally published in the 'Leader,' > March, 1852, and republished in his 'Essays,' in 1858), has contrasted > the theories of the Creation and the Development of organic beings > with remarkable skill and force. He argues from the analogy of > domestic productions, from the changes which the embryos of many > species undergo, from the difficulty of distinguishing species and > varieties, and from the principle of general gradation, that species > have been modified; and he attributes the modification to the change > of circumstances. The author (1855) has also treated psychology on the > principle of the necessary acquirement of each mental power and > capacity by gradation. > > In 1852 M. Naudin, a distinguished botanist, expressly stated, in an > admirable paper on the Origin of Species ('Revue Horticole, p. 102; > since partly republished in the 'Nouvelles Archives du Mus�um,' tom. > i. p. 171), his belief that species are formed in an analogous manner > as varieties are under cultivation; and the latter process he > attributes to man's power of selection. But he does not show how > selection acts under nature. He believes, like Dean Herbert, that > species, when nascent, were more plastic than at present. He lays > weight on what he calls the principle of finality, 'puissance > myst�rieuse, ind�termin�e; fatalit� pour les uns; pour les autres > volont� providentielle, dont l'action incessante sur les �tres vivants > d�termine, � toutes les �poques de l'existence du monde, la forme, le > volume, et la dur�e de chacun d'eux, en raison de sa destin�e dans > l'ordre de choses dont il fait partie. C'est cette puissance qui > harmonise chaque membre � l'ensemble, en l'appropriant � la fonction > qu'il doit remplir dans l'organisme g�n�ral de la nature, fonction qui > est pour lui sa raison d'�tre.'(3) > > In 1853 a celebrated geologist, Count Keyserling ("Bulletin de la Soc. > G�olog.,' 2nd Ser., tom. x. p. 357), suggested that as new diseases, > supposed to have been caused by some miasma, have arisen and spread > over the world, so at certain periods the germs of existing species > may have been chemically affected by circumambient molecules of a > particular nature, and thus have given rise to new forms. > > In this same year, 1853, Dr Schaaffhausen published an excellent > pamphlet ('Verhand. des Naturhist. Vereins der preuss. Rheinlands,' > &c.), in which he maintains the development of organic forms on the > earth. He infers that many species have kept true for long periods, > whereas a few have become modified. The distinction of species he > explains by the destruction of intermediate graduated forms. 'Thus > living plants and animals are not separated from the extinct by new > creations, but are to be regarded as their descendants through > continued reproduction.' > > A well-known French botanist, M. Lecoq, writes in 1854 ('Etudes sur > G�ograph. Bot.,' tom. i. p. 250), 'On voit que nos recherches sur la > fixit� ou la variation de l'esp�ce, nous conduisent directement aux > id�es �mises, par deux hommes justement c�l�bres, Geoffroy > Saint-Hilaire et Goethe.' Some other passages scattered through M. > Lecoq's large work, make it a little doubtful how far he extends his > views on the modification of species. > > The 'Philosophy of Creation' has been treated in a masterly manner by > the Rev. Baden Powell, in his "Essays on the Unity of Worlds,' 1855. > Nothing can be more striking than the manner in which he shows that > the introduction of new species is "a regular, not a casual > phenomenon,' or, as Sir John Herschel expresses it, 'a natural in > contradistinction to a miraculous, process.' > > The third volume of the "Journal of the Linnean Society' contains > papers, read July 1st, 1858, by Mr Wallace and myself, in which, as > stated in the introductory remarks to this volume, the theory of > Natural Selection is promulgated by Mr Wallace with admirable force > and clearness. > > Von Baer, towards whom all zoologists feel so profound a respect, > expressed about the year 1859 (see Prof. Rudolph Wagner, a > "Zoologisch-Anthropologische Untersuchungen,' 1861, s. 51) his > conviction, chiefly grounded on the laws of geographical distribution, > that forms now perfectly distinct have descended from a single > parent-form. > > In June, 1859, Professor Huxley gave a lecture before the Royal > Institution on the 'Persistent Types of Animal Life.' Referring to > such cases, he remarks, "It is difficult to comprehend the meaning of > such facts as these, if we suppose that each species of animal and > plant, or each great type of organisation, was formed and placed upon > the surface of the globe at long intervals by a distinct act of > creative power; and it is well to recollect that such an assumption is > as unsupported by tradition or revelation as it is opposed to the > general analogy of nature. If, on the other hand, we view 'Persistent > Types' in relation to that hypothesis which supposes the species > living at any time to be the result of the gradual modification of > pre-existing species a hypothesis which, though unproven, and sadly > damaged by some of its supporters, is yet the only one to which > physiology lends any countenance; their existence would seem to show > that the amount of modification which living beings have undergone > during geological time is but very small in relation to the whole > series of changes which they have suffered.' > > In December, 1859, Dr Hooker published his 'Introduction to the > Australian Flora.' In the first part of this great work he admits the > truth of the descent and modification of species, and supports this > doctrine by many original observations. > > The first edition of this work was published on November 24th, 1859, > and the second edition on January 7th, 1860. > > Footnotes > > (1) Aristotle, in his 'Physicae Auscultationes' (lib. 2, cap. 8, s. > 2), after remarking that rain does not fall in order to make the corn > grow, any more than it falls to spoil the farmer's corn when threshed > out of doors, applies the same argument to organization: and adds (as > translated by Mr Clair Grece, who first pointed out the passage to > me), 'So what hinders the different parts [of the body] from having > this merely accidental relation in nature? as the teeth, for example, > grow by necessity, the front ones sharp, adapted for dividing, and the > grinders flat, and serviceable for masticating the food; since they > were not made for the sake of this, but it was the result of accident. > And in like manner as to the other parts in which there appears to > exist an adaptation to an end. Wheresoever, therefore, all things > together (that is all the parts of one whole) happened like as if they > were made for the sake of something, these were preserved, having been > appropriately constituted by an internal spontaneity, and whatsoever > things were not thus constituted, perished, and still perish. We here > see the principle of natural selection shadowed forth, but how little > Aristotle fully comprehended the principle, is shown by his remarks on > the formation of the teeth. > > (2) I have taken the date of the first publication of Lamarck from > Isid. Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire's ('Hist. Nat. G�n�rale,' tom. ii. p. > 405, 1859) excellent history of opinion on this subject. In this work > a full account is given of Buffon's conclusions on the same subject. > It is curious how largely my grandfather, Dr Erasmus Darwin, > anticipated the views and erroneous grounds of opinion of Lamarck in > his 'Zoonomia' (vol. i. pp. 500-510), published in 1794. According to > Isid. Geoffroy there is no doubt that Goethe was an extreme partisan > of similar views, as shown in the Introduction to a work written in > 1794 and 1795, but not published till long afterwards: he has > pointedly remarked ('Goethe als Naturforscher,' von Dr Karl Medinge s. > 34) that the future question for naturalists will be how, for > instance, cattle got their horns, and not for what they are used. It > is rather a singular instance of the manner in which similar views > arise at about the same time, that Goethe in Germany, Dr Darwin in > England, and Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (as we shall immediately see) in > France; came to the same conclusion on the origin of species, in the > years 1794-5. > > (3) From references in Bronn's 'Untersuchungen �ber die > Entwickenlungs-Gesetze,' it appears that the celebrated botanist and > palaeontologist Unger published, in 1852, his belief that species > undergo development and modification. Dalton, likewise, in Pander and > Dalton's work on Fossil Sloths, expressed, in 1821 a similar belief. > Similar views have, as is well known, been maintained by Oken in his > mystical 'Natur-philosophie.' From other references in Godron's work > 'Sur l'Esp�ce,' it seems that Bory St Vincent, Burdach, Poiret, and > Fries, have all admitted that new species are continually being > produced. > > I may add, that of the thirty-four authors named in this Historical > Sketch, who believe in the modification of species, or at least > disbelieve in separate acts of creation, twenty-seven have written on > special branches of natural history or geology. > > > Contents > Introduction > > > > > > > Home Page | Browse | Search | Feedback | Links > The FAQ | Must-Read Files | Index | Creationism | Evolution | Age of > the Earth | Flood Geology | Catastrophism | Debates > From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 22:42:09 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:42:09 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090707.BAA07580@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:06:38 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a > bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil > madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything > in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. Um, actualy Einstein didn't propose a bomb. I believe Leo Szilard approached Einstein with a letter asking the President to begin an initiative. The motivation was because most of the really worthwhile German physicists working on the Nazi programs left the Nazi sphere. The fear was that since Germany had the *only* supply of heavy water in the world and the only state backed program in the field that if the US didn't do something they would loose the bomb in a series of bright flashes. I also, don't believe the war had actualy started when Einstein was approaced by Leo on Aug. 2, 1939. > Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a > shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care > if anyone else saw the results of his work. He certainly went to great pains to publish it, even anonymously in some cases and out of his own pocket. > Once he had solved the > problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others > were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the > answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. He pursued knowledge for deep religous reasons, according to his notes. Newton was also the Exchequer of England and had 3 peopled hanged for stealing gold from the government mint. He took the job because he had pissed so many people off at the time because of his attitude that he couldn't find work. It was prior to him becoming know as the 'Lion of England' and gaining life tenure. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From blancw at cnw.com Thu Jan 8 23:07:38 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:07:38 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980108230250.00698184@cnw.com> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >The same guy informed me later that he discovered a closed-form solution to >some very interesting problems 9related to Black-Scholes) which according to >the open literature either can't be done accurately at all, or require >incredible amounts of cpu time for monte carlo simulations. he doesn't >wish tio publish it (although it would make him quite a celebrity) and >now he's going crazy trying to figure out a way to sell it in such a way >that he can't get screwed again. How would crypto help if at all? ........................................................... I don't know about crypto, but I just attended a very informative financial forum on protecting intellectual property, presented by two representatives from Arthur Andersen and Preston Gates & Ellis, LLP. I picked up a little brochure which the attorney firm had available for attendees: We counsel and represent inventors, authors, publishers, visual artists, and musicians as they face a host of new and important issues. Preston Gates attorneys negotiate the use of creative expression in the full range of media, from CD-Roms and on-line services to interactive television and video games. We monitor and advise clients on developments in consumer protection, defamation, infringement, and other legal areas that affect their ability to develop and market creative properties. {etc} web site: www.prestongates.com, email: infotech at prestongates.com .. Blanc From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 8 23:07:38 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:07:38 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090731.BAA07695@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:45:25 EST > > Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). Who also worked with Gauss and probably beat Gauss to any solution to the problem of non-euclidean geometry (see Kurzer Grundriss eines Versuchs, p. 46). > In 1832 he published his findings as an appendix > to his father's textbook. Actualy his father published it as an afterthought to get him to quit working on Euclids Parallels. It was published in Tomus Secundus (1833, pp. 265 - 322) written by his father. > arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix > is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one > actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. Both John Bolyai's "The Science of Absolute Space" and Nicholas Lobachevski's "The Theory of Parallels" are included in Roberto Bonola's "Non-euclidean Geometry" (Dover, ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). I certainly had no problem reading the 3 combined books. I was just looking at the translators notes to Lobachevski, it was done by George Bruce Halsted of 2407 San Marcos St, Austin, Tx. May 1, 1891. > well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about > Gauss's work. Not true, Bolyai wrote him several letters as described in his book and the various prefaces. Lobachevski's book was promoted by Gauss as the first and truely critical work on non-euclidean geometry. In a rare show of magnamity Gauss even admits that Lobachevski's work exceeded his own. > I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegations > Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they > have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. He wrote a classic work on non-euclidean geometry that was quite popular in 1912 when it was printed. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From wogague2 at toyoma-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 9 17:19:40 1998 From: wogague2 at toyoma-u.ac.jp (wogague2 at toyoma-u.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:19:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: XXX ADULT SEX!!! Message-ID: <199801093232RAA5626@post.183.199.26> The LARGEST selection of Hot Beautiful XXX Live Girls from the U.S.A. & Europe!!! Voted as the 1998 best Adult Site! *LIVE GIRL SEX SHOWS!!! * 10 FREE Live Video Feeds & Chatrooms!!! *FREE Erotic Stories!! *1,000's of Free Pictures of XXX Porn Stars!! *Confessions!!! *Plus Free Pictures of Teens & Men!!! *Live Erotic Chat!!! *Gambling * Tons of free stuff!!! So Much More we can't fit it on this page. See for yourself, go check it out!!! You must be 21 or older. Please copy and paste the link below into your browser, and press enter. http://www.search.com/Infoseek/1,135,0,0200.html?OLDQUERY= pussyclub+&QUERY=pussyclub+&COLL=11&START=10&OLDCOLL=WW If you take offense to this email & wish to be taken off our list, simply e-mail us at: stanleyo at hotmail.com We are sorry for any inco From dbrown at alaska.net Fri Jan 9 01:48:28 1998 From: dbrown at alaska.net (Crisavec) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:48:28 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109002532.0084c330@alaska.net> William H. Geiger III typethed the following... > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <19980107001651.29456 at songbird.com>, on 01/07/98 > at 03:16 AM, Kent Crispin said: > >>On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: >>> > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >>> > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >>> > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >>> >>> If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. > >>That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. > >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie >evidence of diminished mental capacity. Don't bet on.... There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't complete idiots and those of us who are. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 9 01:54:16 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:54:16 +0800 Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype Message-ID: <199801090825.JAA16425@basement.replay.com> >at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >you can test your critical thinking skills... Bawahahahaha. That's the biggest bunch of complete bullshit I've read in years. Thanks, Meganet, you made my night. They must be smoking crack and a lot of it. From isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de Fri Jan 9 01:56:08 1998 From: isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de (Ian Sparkes) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:08 +0800 Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980109094653.006a7a4c@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> >Lotus made not secret of their GAK implementation in Notes. If the Swedish >government bought Notes anyway, they have only themselves and the >incompetence of their IS people to blame. > >Now they have to scrap a recently fielded system. Though luck. Better >solutions than Notes were out there and easily to be found by the most >casual buyer. > People buy Notes for the databases - the mail is just a freebie for most, a bit like the radio in your car. The mail's not even very good (adequate at most). Anyone know if the databases are encrypted with the same GAK scheme? From anon at anon.efga.org Fri Jan 9 01:56:11 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:11 +0800 Subject: [Censored] Quote of the Day (fwd) Message-ID: <6a88eb4a1c645a0937bc001a779b25d1@anon.efga.org> John Young wrote: >DPS sumbitch ran me down near DFW, me and my crap filled van, >my mangy hide and shaggy hair, my NY plates, my wildly dumped >substances, and sat behind for a few drags of AC in 100 degree heat, >miked in the number, adjusted his mirrors, tilted the vidcam skyward, >and climbed out, a big, very big widowmaker high on his fat ass, >hustled his privates, spat juice, and farted hard enough to quiver the >VW and me. I think John has been skipping his meds again. Come on, John, the pill is your friend! From anon at squirrel.owl.de Fri Jan 9 01:56:14 1998 From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:14 +0800 Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype Message-ID: <7e0eaee2121f060fe7825adfc519b545@squirrel> >at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >you can test your critical thinking skills... Bawahahahaha. That's the biggest bunch of complete bullshit I've read in years. Thanks, Meganet, you made my night. They must be smoking crack and a lot of it. From blancw at cnw.com Fri Jan 9 01:56:18 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:18 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980109000033.0070a820@cnw.com> Jim Choate wrote, regarding Newton: >He certainly went to great pains to publish it, even anonymously in some >cases and out of his own pocket. ............................................................... Okay, just this one reply on this subject, Jim. Taken from "The World of Mathematics", and article entitled "Newton, the Man", by John Maynard Keynes: " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I ever knew', said Whiston, his successor in the Lucasian Chair. The too well-known conflicts and ignoble quarrels with Hooke, Flamsteed, Leibnitz are only too clear an evidence of this. Like all his type he was wholly aloof from women. He parted with and published nothing except under the extreme pressure of friends. Until the second phase of his life, he was a wrapt, consecrated solitary, pursuing his studies by intenese introspection with a mental endurance perhaps never equalled. [...] There is the story of how he informed Halley of one of his most fundamental discoveries of planetary motion. 'Yes', replied Halley, 'but how do you know that? Have you proved it?' Newton was taken aback - 'Why, I've known it for years', he replied. 'If you'll give me a few days, I'll certainly find you a proof of it' - as in due course he did." .. Blanc From anonymous304 at juno.com Fri Jan 9 04:17:18 1998 From: anonymous304 at juno.com (Anony J Man) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:17:18 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980109.065815.3334.0.anonymous304@juno.com> On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers writes: >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: > >I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. I think so too what's his email address????? Anonymous304 >> Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is >> completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is >> cross-ruminated. >> >> | | >> | O | Tim C. May >> (--|--) >> | >> / \ >> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Graham-John Bullers Moderator of >alt.2600.moderated >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > email : : > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > From mail at vipul.net Fri Jan 9 05:35:42 1998 From: mail at vipul.net (Vipul Ved Prakash) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:35:42 +0800 Subject: oracle on feds (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091711.RAA01466@fountainhead.net> Selected-By: David Bremner The Internet Oracle has pondered your question deeply. Your question was: > DearOralemostwisepleasetellme... > > Look, I'm sorry to rush this, but the IRS, BATF, IRS, CIA, INS, IMF and > CFR agents (not to mention the black helicopters) are at my front door. > What should I do? And in response, thus spake the Oracle: ENTERTAINING FEDERAL AGENTS with MARTHA STEWART Hello, I'm Martha Stewart, welcome to my answer. Our good friend The Internet Oracle is not able to answer your question right now, and so he has asked me to try to help. Let's take a look at your situation, shall we? Entertaining large groups of Federal agents is always a bit of a challenge, especially when we're pressed for time. Of course, it's always best to be prepared for visitors. You should have a neatly trimmed and freshly painted entryway, with a large Welcome mat and perhaps some cut flowers. A wooden rocking chair on the porch adds a homey touch of camouflage. When Federal agents are expected, I like to take a little time beforehand and knit a large Plywood Cozy for each window to catch some of the broken glass. Don't forget to save the shards! They can be dyed later and arranged into a stunning stained glass mosaic. For autumn, have plenty of hot mulled cider ready. Not only is it healthy and aromatic, it's better than water for extinguishing fires! If your electricity is sabotaged, use your supply of flares in tasteful candle holders. Finally, don't be afraid to think creatively. Although many people think of large-caliber bullets as merely a nuisance, they can be recovered and used as decorative accessories and paper weights, or hammered into distinctive buttons. With a little brown paint, a smoke grenade can also be fashioned into a quaint pineapple arrangement! As always, remember to be courteous and kind, and just relax and be yourself. It takes only a small extra effort to be remembered for your own unique style of entertaining. Enjoy! You owe the Oracle a throw rug woven from yellow "Police Line" tape. -- "So Beck was the hacker and Oda was the backer. The oldest and most troublesome relationship in the technological world." -- "Diamond Age", Neal Stephenson. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail at vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From mail at vipul.net Fri Jan 9 05:38:34 1998 From: mail at vipul.net (Vipul Ved Prakash) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:38:34 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980101170044.0dff4600@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199801091545.PAA01120@fountainhead.net> Mikhael Frieden wrote: > >You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market > >and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the > >fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. I am no racist, but I defend > >your right to be as racist as you see fit. > You are obviously an evil person if you do so against the self > annointed, even though they self identify themselves as 30% racist. This reminds me of the self-righteous political leaders of India who enforced 47% reservations for Schedule Cast/Tribe groups in all government subsidized institutions couple of years back. And, it all starts with the same fallacious interpretation of "equal opportunity". Whatever your political philosophy might be you won't like to see a doctor who is likely to kill you with an overdose of codeine. Or would you? Best, Vipul -- "So Beck was the hacker and Oda was the backer. The oldest and most troublesome relationship in the technological world." -- "Diamond Age", Neal Stephenson. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail at vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From rdl at mit.edu Fri Jan 9 05:42:54 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:42:54 +0800 Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! Message-ID: (David Honig) writes: > At 10:48 PM 1/7/98 -0800, Sergey Goldgaber wrote: > > > >1 - Anonymity is technically feasable. > > > >2 - This requirement is a legal necessity. Otherwise, the organization > > may be seen as advocating murder. > > > >Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be > >no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death. > > > >Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics. > > > > - Sergey Goldgaber > > I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a > proposal: > If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated > from the net > and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. > Since > the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair > collaborated, well, > when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in > the client. Given strong cryptography and something like my current Eternity DDS almost prototype (a reliable distributed way of selling storage-compute-bandwidth being the relevant part), why couldn't the incarcerated person have left an agent out on the net to handle the challenge for him, and hold the money in anonymous trust for him until he gets out? I can't think of any anonymity-preserving system which contains an "is-a-person" predicate -- even if you asked an AI-hard question, you could blind the question and post it to usenet or CNN or something and quote one of those responses (which would be wise to do anyway for styleometry prevention). The other option is having a non-anonymous system, or one that is anonymous until someone tries to collect the prize, but in that case, it's not all that interesting a problem. Ryan the Nightshifted -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 07:02:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:02:50 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091519.JAA08621@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:01:22 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound > shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his > beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism > of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I > ever knew', said Whiston, > The too > well-known conflicts and ignoble quarrels with Hooke, Flamsteed, Leibnitz > are only too clear an evidence of this. Would you or Keynes like to explain how such an aloof character could have had so many 'well-known' conflicts without publishing and discussing his and others work? How can somebody who supposedly never published have become so well know? I guess he got somebody else to stand in for him in the various discourses he partook of at the Royal Society meetings. > He parted with and published nothing except under the > extreme pressure of friends. I would suggest a simple trip to the library and look at what is published by Newton. If I get the chance I'll take a look and catalog some of the anonymous publishing that are attributed to him. It may take a while, this unfortunately can't reside very high on my list of priorities; sorry. > Until the second phase of his life, he was a > wrapt, consecrated solitary, pursuing his studies by intenese introspection > with a mental endurance perhaps never equalled. Would you or Keynes like to explain exactly how a government employee, ,as the Exchequer or as a Professor of Natural Philosophy (Physics) would remain solitary? I guess Newton went to the various mints (if memory serves at the time there were 3) and did his other duties including presenting cases in court related to theft and counterfeiting by proxy? > There is the story of how he informed Halley of one of his most fundamental > discoveries of planetary motion. 'Yes', replied Halley, 'but how do you > know that? Have you proved it?' Newton was taken aback - 'Why, I've known > it for years', he replied. 'If you'll give me a few days, I'll certainly > find you a proof of it' - as in due course he did." Yeah, Halley had just seen the comet and was trying to figure out it's orbit. He approached many people on the issue and Newton was the only one who could resolve the issue in England. Because of the long periodicity and the fact that Halley didn't have 3 sightings he couldn't use the standard orbit calculations. By using calculus, which Newton had invented and Halley didn't know, it was possible to calculate an envelope of orbits. Haley then researched records of sightings and determined that only one comet with a 75+ year orbit could be it. If Newton was so unknown from not publishing why did Halley even care to ask Newton? Halley was a pretty notable character in his own right. He was given a ship to do the first magnetic map of the N. Atlantic, he called it 'Paramour Pink' (Pink Lover). He and the prince of Russia would also push themselves around London in a wheelbarrow drunk as skunks... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 07:09:56 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:09:56 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091529.JAA08683@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:01:22 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound > shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his > beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism > of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I > ever knew', said Whiston, Sorry, I didn't think of this before... Did either Keynes or Whiston happen to mention that Newton was an alchemist? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 9 07:28:42 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:28:42 +0800 Subject: Cute Message-ID: <199801091520.QAA29876@basement.replay.com> Tim May is cute and cuddly! (_) _____ (_) /O O\ Timmy C[uddly] May ! I ! ! \___/ ! \_____/ From ForOfficeCall at 1-713-524-3303 Fri Jan 9 23:43:27 1998 From: ForOfficeCall at 1-713-524-3303 (ForOfficeCall at 1-713-524-3303) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:43:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch! Message-ID: <28174893_22711452> ********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* ----------------------------------------------------------------- TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch Tie cleaning..richly hand finished....$ 7.95 each 4 minimum Ties altered..widen,narrowed,tips.....$12.50 each 2 minimum reshaped and hand sewn,etc Clean/alter..$17.50 each.....4 minimum Specialty scarf cleaning..$25.00 each....2 minimum Retunrn by UPS add $5.00 in the USA...our cost outside of USA. In Texas add 8.25% Sales Tax QUALITY care for NECKWARE since 1952 MC,VISA,DISCOVER Send ties to: HOLSEY CUSTOM CLOTHES 2613 Richmond Ave. Houston, Texas 77098 713-524-3303 Ask about our Web Page. After 5PM this number is forwared to our voice mail. TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: REMOVE-b at ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Fri Jan 9 08:14:03 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:14:03 +0800 Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15D4@exna01.securitydynamics.com> My understanding is that a post BOX has to be a design acceptable to the USPS; and that no one else can put things INTO it. This is a pretty narrow restriction; door slots can be used by anyone for anything, and many postboxes either share a support post with a newspaper delivery tube or have an external rack for stuffing newspapers, etc. Back about 20 years ago, some company (FedEx, UPS????) tried to get into the first class mail delivery business, and they dealt with this by putting mail in a plastic bag and hanging it on the doorknob. Where I live (*small* town in New England), FedEx and UPS regularly leave packages unattended; either by the front door, the back door, or in the garage (this is a very low crime area). Around 1979, when the existence of email was just beginning to penetrate (there where only a few hundred thousand people on the Arpanet), there was considerable debate over the legality of email. Since access to Arpanet was theoretically only for people working on Federally funded projects, it was widely thought that it should only be used for project related work, and any personal mail was a misuse of government funds. Columbia University (where I was working at the time) allowed unlimited internal use, but had tinkered their mail client to ignore addresses to off-campus addresses. I think my very first hack involved defeating this restriction. About the same time, I remember that the Postal Carriers Union realized (quite correctly) that email was a threat to their civil service jobs, and came out with a statement to the effect of 'We don't quite understand what this thing is, but the USPS owns it." They wanted to require that email be received only at Post Offices, where it would be printed, stamped, and delivered (by one of their members) along with the rest of the mail. Peter Trei ptrei at securitydynamics.com > ---------- > From: Brian B. Riley[SMTP:brianbr at together.net] > > Maybe they are confusing an electronic mailbox with a snailmail box > ... > the USPS has always contended that they (the USPS) "own" your mailbox > and > use that criterion to prosecute people who drive around putting things > > like circulars etc in mailboxes. Maybe they we on a role thinking that > if > they got into the e-mail business they would 'own' that piece of your > hard drive so to speak. > > > From ForOfficeCall at 1-713-524-3303 Sat Jan 10 00:19:21 1998 From: ForOfficeCall at 1-713-524-3303 (ForOfficeCall at 1-713-524-3303) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:19:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch! (c) Message-ID: <80086500_80738792> ********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* ----------------------------------------------------------------- TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch Tie cleaning..richly hand finished....$ 7.95 each 4 minimum Ties altered..widen,narrowed,tips.....$12.50 each 2 minimum reshaped and hand sewn,etc Clean/alter..$17.50 each.....4 minimum Specialty scarf cleaning..$25.00 each....2 minimum Retunrn by UPS add $5.00 in the USA...our cost outside of USA. In Texas add 8.25% Sales Tax QUALITY care for NECKWARE since 1952 MC,VISA,DISCOVER Send ties to: HOLSEY CUSTOM CLOTHES 2613 Richmond Ave. Houston, Texas 77098 713-524-3303 Ask about our Web Page. After 5PM this number is forwared to our voice mail. TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: REMOVE-b at ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 9 08:20:25 1998 From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:20:25 +0800 Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: > > I haven't seen the USG RSA key -- if it's 512 bits, that would be a humorous > > next factoring target. Talking of factoring I wonder if anyone on the list has seen the article in this months new scientist regarding a new link found between energy levels in hydrogen atoms and generation of large primes, I don`t remember the details (I only scanned the article as even the elementary explanation of the physics involved was beyond me), The thrust of the article was that work was in progress on a variant of this that could factor large numbers significantly faster than current methods. Anyone with more background in this sort of thing care to comment? Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 9 08:54:39 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:54:39 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090731.BAA07695@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: Jim Choate writes: > > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:45:25 EST > > > > Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). > > Who also worked with Gauss and probably beat Gauss to any solution to the > problem of non-euclidean geometry (see Kurzer Grundriss eines Versuchs, > p. 46). I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. And if the best argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. Gauss rose from poverty to become one of the premier mathematicians of his time - in the era when sciences were considered a hobby suitable only for the noble-born and wealthy. Gauss did a lot to help other people in many ways, both as individuals, and in targeting his research to solve practical problems for good of the humanity. I was very fortunate to have met Paul Erdos and some living people whom I regard as mathematicial geniuses (not necessarily on par with Gauss); without exception their talents make them wonderful helpful people. You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend, being 25 years younger. Crypto-relevant stuff: In 11-17 centuries, mathematicians who weren't independently wealthy, made their living by selling their service to/as "reckoners" (computers), accountants, bookkeepers, and astrologers. There was, you may recall, a similar dispute between Tartagla and some other Italian about who first discovered the formula for roots of 3rd order polynomials. This problem had some use in computing the internal rate of return (a practical accounting problem of interest at that time), but the main reason why each wanted to claim priority was for marketing reason: being its inventor would have enhanced their reputation and allowed them to charge higher fees or to get new clients for their bookkeeping businesses (because that's what they did for a living). So, the following technique emerged and was widely used by mathematicians at that time to claim the peiority. They would write out their result (or the proof); they would make an anagram, or take the first letter of each (latin) word, etc; and they would mass-mail it to every mathematician they knew, so they'd receive it at about the same time; then they'd publish it at leisure, knowing that once they decode the anagram or publish the proof whose first letters coincide with their broadcast, it will be evident that they had it on the date it was first mailed, yet they haven't revealed enough information for anyone to steal the result. The nice folks in goettingen who kept publishing Gauss's papers up until WW2 found that he too came up with a non-Euclidean geometry in 1818 (when Bolyai was 16 years old). They did not report finding any communications from Bolyai to Gauss about non-euclidean geometry in that time frame. Unfortunately if Bolyai makes the claims that he communicated his results privately to Gauss and that Gauss then concocted a tentacle named Lobachevsky, who's not a real person, then I have to discard the entire claim as a figment of his psychotic imagination. > > > arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix > > is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one > > actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. > > Both John Bolyai's "The Science of Absolute Space" and Nicholas > Lobachevski's "The Theory of Parallels" are included in Roberto Bonola's > "Non-euclidean Geometry" (Dover, ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). I certainly had > no problem reading the 3 combined books. > > I was just looking at the translators notes to Lobachevski, it was done > by George Bruce Halsted of 2407 San Marcos St, Austin, Tx. May 1, 1891. What's your point? Are you suggesting that Lobachevsky first published it that year? He was long dead by then. He first gave a talk on non-euclidean geometry in 1825 and published the seminal paper in 1829 - before Bolyai's work was published in 1832 as an appendix to his father's textbook. Bolyai saw the German translation of Lobachevsky's paper in 1840. Are you trying to say that a paper's not really published until it's translated into english by some guy in Texas? :-) > > > well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about > > Gauss's work. > > Not true, Bolyai wrote him several letters as described in his book and the > various prefaces. Lobachevski's book was promoted by Gauss as the first and > truely critical work on non-euclidean geometry. In a rare show of magnamity > Gauss even admits that Lobachevski's work exceeded his own. What exactly is your beef with Gauss promoting Lobachevsky? When Lobachevsky's paper reached Europe, the "consensus" (I hate consensuses) among the working mathematicians was that non-euclidean geometry was nuts. Incidentally, Bolyai was among the people screaming that it was all wrong and renouncing his own 1832 publication. Gauss could have announced that he came up with the same results before Lobachevsky, but never bothered to publish them. Gauss could have also announced that he's gone through Lobachevsky's papers and endorses the results. His reputation capital was such that either claim would have been accepted by the mathematical community. He did neither. He endorsed Lobachevsky's paper as being sufficiently interesting to be translated and studied and checked; perhaps he himself was not sure that it was error-free. He also pushed for Lobachevsky's election into the Hannover academy of sciences - not just for the non-euclidean theory, for for his many other interesting results. Gauss also promoted many other people who did outstanding mathematical work. There wasn't a "consensus" that non-euclidean geometry was kosher until about 1865, by which time all 3 were dead or retired. Likewise when Kantor first announced that the infinite number of real numbers is greater that the infinite number of integers, the "consensus" among working mathematicians was that this was crazy. Likewise when a certain well-known Dutch mathematician mass-mailed many people a few years ago announcing that he's been having sex with the mother goddess, the "consensus" was that he's gone nuts. Finally, if Gauss said that Lobechevsky's paper was more complete and detailed than Gauss's unpublished notes from 1818, it may very well have been true. > > > I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegation > > Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they > > have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. > > He wrote a classic work on non-euclidean geometry that was quite popular in > 1912 when it was printed. > If the book repeats the bizarre claims made by Bolyai, when he was paranoid, depressed, and outright psychotic - such as the claim that Lobachevsky was not a real person, but a "tentacle" of Gauss created to torture Bolyai - then it's not worth reading. Sadly, some people do go insane. Trying to find the truth in their paranoid rants is a waste of time, just like reading Timmy May's rants is a waste of time. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 09:09:49 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:09:49 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091729.LAA09084@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 10:24:24 EST > I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove > that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. Lobashevski was the first person to write in modern history on non-euclidean geometry. Gauss was a contemporary and was quite familiar with Lobashevski's work. He was even asked to review "The Theory of Parallels". Gauss, in an uncharacteristic act, even admitted that Lobachevski's work had progressed farther than his own. > only for the noble-born and wealthy. Gauss did a lot to help other > people in many ways, both as individuals, and in targeting his research > to solve practical problems for good of the humanity. Gauss did a lot of harm as well. He characteristicaly denied works of others and trivialized their contributions while at the same time promoting his own. He was prone to bouts of drunken anger and is known to have physicaly attacked quite a few people while in that state. His usual treatment of contemporaries was based on contempt, not respect. > You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend, > being 25 years younger. Bolyai's father worked with Gauss (as I explained) and his son John also worked with Gauss from the time he (Bolyai) was in school; not Gauss. I am going to refrain from going on with the remainder of your 'points'. You have strayed so far afield, as usual, or misconstrued comments that it has no relevance to what the original discussion was about, which was science advances when people publish and share their work - not when it is held back and unpublished. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 9 09:18:36 1998 From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:18:36 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> Message-ID: > I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. > Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic > properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the > domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've > already lost! Ready availablity of defensive weaponry to citizens does create very unusual circumstances in that a motivated population can defeat the government by pure force of numbers, the fact is, the population is not motivated and most of the sheeple swallow the state BS, and just in case, most governments restrict citizens access to weapons and ignore the citizens right to defend themselves against attack (not that this will stop those of us who are motivated). Paul Bradley, who may or may not be prepared to defend himself. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From declan at vorlon.mit.edu Fri Jan 9 09:25:28 1998 From: declan at vorlon.mit.edu (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:25:28 +0800 Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:07 -0500 From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News ************ http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 9, 1998 In God We Antitrust by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) Bill Gates likes to portray himself as a businessman hounded by hordes of boorish bureaucrats who resent his success. "It's absolutely clear that our competitors are spending an enormous amount of time and money trying to whip up anti-Microsoft sentiment in Washington, D.C.," says spokesman Mark Murray. "For the past year, Netscape, Sun and other competitors have been crawling all over Washington, D.C., trying to use the government as a weapon against Microsoft -- rather than competing head-to-head in the marketplace." Of course, that's what you'd expect a PR flack to say, whether it's true or not. But maybe, just maybe, Microsoft has a point. A close look at the history of antitrust law reveals that its enforcement has always been political. The demand for antitrust regulations in the first place came from midwestern butchers who wanted to block competition from more efficient meat-packing plants in Chicago. Since then, execution of the 1890 Sherman Act has been highly partisan: Democratic administrations are nearly twice as likely to bring antitrust cases as Republicans. Antitrust regulations are also protectionist: Regulators wield them to protect domestic companies from overseas competitors. If it's politics and not policy that prompted the Justice Department to assail Microsoft this time around, the paper trail may not become public until well into the next century. For now, though, we can look at antitrust history instead: ITT and Nixon: President Richard Nixon intervened in an antitrust action against International Telephone & Telegraph in 1971 in exchange for a bribe -- a hefty contribution to the 1972 Republican convention. "I don't know whether ITT is bad, good or indifferent," he said on April 19, 1971, White House tapes reveal. "But there is not going to be any more antitrust actions as long as I am in this chair... goddamn it, we're going to stop it." [...snip...] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sunder at brainlink.com Fri Jan 9 09:51:07 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:51:07 +0800 Subject: waco trail / german bugs -- from spyking list Message-ID: 15)From: SpyKing at thecodex.com Subject: Re: Deadly Physical Force This thread might be getting tired but I ran across something that is applicable. I make no judgement on who is right or wrong. I was not there and only those who were know the truth. I'm posting this to show that despite being acquitted in one court the shooter in this case is being charged and brought to trial in another court on similiar charges. Some will scream double jeapordy and others will say justice is prevailing. The jury will have to decide... but I'll say one thing... If this guy IS convicted the rules of engagement change forever... SWAT teams will have to think twice before firing into dwellings... FBI sniper ordered to stand trial in Ruby Ridge case BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (Reuters) - An FBI sharpshooter has been ordered to stand trial on charges of involuntary manslaughter over the 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in which three people died, prosecutors said Wednesday. Idaho Magistrate Quentin Harden ruled there was enough evidence to allow the sharpshooter, Lon Horiuchi, to face trial on charges he acted with negligence when he fired a shot that killed the wife of white separatist Randy Weaver at his cabin. The standoff near Weaver's cabin turned into a rallying cry for extreme right-wingers who condemned what they saw as federal government excesses and held up Weaver as a hero. Boundary County prosecutor Denise Woodbury last August charged Horiuchi and Weaver's friend Kevin Harris with the deaths of two people killed in the standoff. The charges against Harris were later dismissed on the grounds that he had already been acquitted of those charges in federal court. In filing charges against Horiuchi, Woodbury accused the sharpshooter of using a gun in a reckless manner by firing through the front door of Weaver's house without first determining whether anyone other than his intended target was behind the door. Horiuchi could face up to 10 years in prison if convicted. The standoff began Aug. 21, 1992, when U.S. Marshals approached Weaver's cabin to arrest him for failing to appear in court on gun charges. U.S. Marshal William Degan and Weaver's 14-year-old son Sammy were killed in a gun battle near the cabin, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation was called in later that day. The next day, Horiuchi wounded Weaver and Harris and killed Vicki Weaver. Weaver and Harris surrendered 10 days later and were acquitted of murder charges in the killing of Degan in a 1993 federal trial. Weaver said in a telephone interview from his home in Montana that he was pleased by Harden's ruling. ``It's taken a long time, but sometimes the wheels of justice grind slowly. We are looking to see some justice in all of this,'' Weaver said. ``To be honest I hope that he (Horiuchi) eventually sees that he is just one of two scapegoats and that eventually he will tell the whole truth.'' Horiuchi's lawyers were due to appear next Monday before a federal judge in Boise to ask that the case against the FBI sniper be moved to federal court. Horiuchi was scheduled to be arraigned Friday, Feb. 13, in Idaho district court in Boundary County, but that could change if his case is remanded to federal court. Neither Horiuchi's lawyers nor Woodbury were immediately available for comment on Harden's ruling. 16)From: SpyKing at thecodex.com Subject: Germany to restore bugging Thursday January 8, 1:58 PM GMT Germany to restore bugging banned since Nazi-era BONN, Jan 8 (Reuters) - German political leaders agreed on Thursday to allow police to bug apartments of suspected criminals, restoring a crime-fighting tool banned since abuses by the secret police in the Nazi era. Leaders from Chancellor Helmut Kohl's centre-right coalition and the opposition Social Democrats (SPD) said they had reached a deal allowing police to plant microphones in private homes of suspected criminals for the first time since 1945. Both houses of parliament are now expected to quickly pass the long-debated measure, which police have argued was needed to better fight organised crime and bring the country in line with other nations that allow electronic surveillance. Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western world's most extensive civil liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional protections that have kept police out of private homes. Interior Minister Manfred Kanther said the agreement would give police the necessary tool to fight organised crime. "This is a decisive step towards more effectively fighting crime," Kanther said. "We can now keep surveillance on suspected gangster apartments and we will be able to better fight money laundering." The opposition SPD, which controls the upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, said it would support the measure after the government agreed to partial exemptions for some professional groups such as priests, attorneys and journalists. Police will be required to obtain advance court permission for any surveillance. Previously, police were only given rare exemptions to the constitutional law protecting the private home. They were allowed to use listening devices or electronic surveillance only with court permission if there was concrete evidence that a serious crime was about to take place. Now authorities will have the power to use eavesdropping methods far more extensively and will also for the first time be able to bug apartments after a crime has been committed to obtain evidence. Germany's post-war constitution barred police from electronic surveillance, telephone taps and intercepting mail. The bans on telephone taps and mail intercepts were relaxed in the 1970s amid a wave of left-wing guerrilla attacks. From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 9 10:10:03 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:10:03 +0800 Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:15 AM -0800 1/9/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >In God We Antitrust >by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) > > Bill Gates likes to portray himself as a businessman hounded by > hordes of boorish bureaucrats who resent his success. "It's absolutely > clear that our competitors are spending an enormous amount of time and > money trying to whip up anti-Microsoft sentiment in Washington, D.C.," > says spokesman Mark Murray. "For the past year, Netscape, Sun and > other competitors have been crawling all over Washington, D.C., trying > to use the government as a weapon against Microsoft -- rather than > competing head-to-head in the marketplace." > > Of course, that's what you'd expect a PR flack to say, whether > it's true or not. But maybe, just maybe, Microsoft has a point. Of course they have a point. CNN reported yesterday that "popular sentiment" is shifting *against* Microsoft, that they are losing the war of words with Our Friend, The Government. The sheeple believe what the Government media machine spews. The "ganging up" on MS is the ganging up on anyone who is too successful and who doesn't play the game properly. (Some of us have already commented on how Microsoft's failure to tithe enough to the political machines may have something to do with their problems. Ironically, many companies have been indicte *bribery* charges (e.g., Lockheed, others) for doing what the political machines in Amerika expect to be done...only we call the bribes "voluntary" donations...sort of a political campaign version of "mandatory voluntary.") The next such battle will be about Intel, which, if anything, has even more of a commanding presence in the market than MS has. Besides "investigations" (a DC codeword meaning: "donate money to the ruling party"), the antitrust buzz is that the Intel-DEC deal may be scotched. Intel's failed competitors (Cyrix, AMD, Motorola, Sun, SGI/MIPS, Intergraph) can be counted on to run crying to Mother Government, crying that Intel is too successful. A truly fucked up country. We need to cut the head off the beast. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From honig at otc.net Fri Jan 9 10:22:06 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:22:06 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109093824.007acbb0@206.40.207.40> At 12:42 AM 1/9/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >Timmy May demonstrated his ignorance and stupidity by writing: > >> >> At 6:01 PM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: >> >> >Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at >> >heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not >> >curiosity. >> .... >> >You don't know Timmy very well do you... >> >> Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) >> is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to >> favor this usage. > >I like to call Timmy "Timmy" necause it's fun to watch Timmy twitch. Didn't you have siblings to taunt as an adolescent? Didn't your mother tell you its not attractive? Haven't you learned that jabs at ideas are not the same at jabs at the person? ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From honig at otc.net Fri Jan 9 10:22:39 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:22:39 +0800 Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109094914.007b36b0@206.40.207.40> At 08:28 AM 1/9/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: > (David Honig) writes: > >> >> I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a >> proposal: >> If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated >> from the net >> and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. >> Since >> the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair >> collaborated, well, >> when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in >> the client. > >Given strong cryptography and something like my current Eternity DDS >almost prototype (a reliable distributed way of selling >storage-compute-bandwidth being the relevant part), why couldn't the >incarcerated person have left an agent out on the net to handle the >challenge for him, and hold the money in anonymous trust for him until >he gets out? I can't think of any anonymity-preserving system which >contains an "is-a-person" predicate -- even if you asked an AI-hard >question, you could blind the question and post it to usenet or CNN >or something and quote one of those responses (which would be wise to >do anyway for styleometry prevention). > >The other option is having a non-anonymous system, or one that is >anonymous until someone tries to collect the prize, but in that case, >it's not all that interesting a problem. > >Ryan the Nightshifted >-- >Ryan Lackey >rdl at mit.edu >http://mit.edu/rdl/ > I think this gets into legal issues. Consider fraudelent insurance and gambling schemes involving collaboration -illegal, but hard to detect unless someone turns. Consider a hit man who takes the fall for the boss, so that his family is taken care of. In these cases and in an AP scheme, the law can't prove much if certain parties collaborate. Maybe the winner of the "BATF agents blown up in 97" bet *is* John Doe III; but since the investigation claims no such person, and the winner is not in jail now, the winner has fairly earned their reward via their skill in actuarial matters. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From honig at otc.net Fri Jan 9 10:54:59 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:54:59 +0800 Subject: waco trail / german bugs -- from spyking list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109104802.007be1e0@206.40.207.40> At 12:47 PM 1/9/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >15)From: SpyKing at thecodex.com >Subject: Re: Deadly Physical Force > If this guy IS >convicted the rules of engagement change forever... SWAT teams will have >to think twice before firing into dwellings... > >FBI sniper ordered to stand trial in Ruby Ridge case The rules for an Assault/Entry are different than the rules for a Sniper, I think. That is the issue: a sniper must know what they are shooting at. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Sat Jan 10 03:13:56 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:13:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98 Message-ID: <19980110082909.5633.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka! 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And we must tell you - these pix are abso- luletly brilliant! .... http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/ TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?090 Pic 2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?091 Pic 3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?092 Pic 4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?093 Pic 5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?094 Pic 6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?095 Pic 7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?096 Pic 8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?097 Pic 9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?098 Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?099 =========================================================== TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US. =========================================================== From ryan at michonline.com Fri Jan 9 11:15:48 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:15:48 +0800 Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > The next such battle will be about Intel, which, if anything, has even more > of a commanding presence in the market than MS has. Besides > "investigations" (a DC codeword meaning: "donate money to the ruling > party"), the antitrust buzz is that the Intel-DEC deal may be scotched. > > Intel's failed competitors (Cyrix, AMD, Motorola, Sun, SGI/MIPS, > Intergraph) can be counted on to run crying to Mother Government, crying > that Intel is too successful. Failed? AMD is farfrom a failed competitor. Intel is nowhere near being a monopoly. In this industry,Intel creates a chip, then AMD,Cyrix, etc take the published specs on that chip and duplicate the work. They same some effort from having to make opcode decisions, but then they don't get first crack at the market. AMD has a *Very* good chip in the K6, receiving much attention as being a serious competitor to Intel's chips. Intel is in no way nearly as hated as Microsoft. Many people hate MS products irrationally, some of those also hate the 80x86line of chips. The number hating the chips is muhc lower than the number hating MS. Maybe because Intel tends to have more reliable produts? Who knows. Intel is *not* in any danger of being a target for an antitrust suit in the near futur, in truth they don't even have the signs going for them. (No dumping of products, no tying of products, though Slot-1 might cqualify as this, I doubt it.) Even the industry mags point out this difference between the two. It's a lot easier to develop competing hardware than a competing OS. Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: jnoble at pop.dgsys.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications From: John Noble Subject: Re: Microsoft Windows98 - Make your own decision. To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM At 10:22 AM -0600 1/9/98, Virginia Metze wrote: >Those are the Fortune 500 figures which they identify as total revenues and >which I take to mean gross. Incidentally, Microsoft is 172, IBM #6. >Destruction of Microsoft's Word revenues, which accounts for a lot of their >profit, is what >would really seriously damage them, and note the push of IBM into the >desktop applications market... > >And IBM is going to be way out in front of everyone no matter how it >is measured. > I share Virginia's sentiment about MS-bashing, but if I were going to measure market power I'd look at profit margins. These figures are provided by Hoovers Stockscreener http://www.stockscreener.com which is a lot of fun to play with. Market Value (mils.): General Electric Company 243000.0 The Coca-Cola Company 164792.0 Microsoft Corporation 157473.0 Exxon Corporation 146881.0 Nippon Telegraph and Telephone 135252.0 Merck 127673.0 Intel 121575.0 Philip Morris Companies Inc. 112867.0 Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 112039.0 The Procter & Gamble Company 108281.0 Toyota Motor Corporation 105326.0 IBM 102912.0 Revenues (mils) (for mkt caps over 100 bil): Exxon Corporation 119507.0 Toyota Motor Corporation 98740.6 General Electric Company 86658.0 Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 85784.7 IBM 77928.0 Philip Morris Companies Inc. 71512.0 Nippon T & T 71262.4 AT&T Corp. 52839.0 The Procter & Gamble Company 36216.0 Intel Corporation 25003.0 Merck & Co., Inc 22810.9 The Coca-Cola Company 18610.0 Microsoft Corporation 12193.0 Pfizer Inc 12169.0 PROFIT MARGIN (for mkt caps over 100 bil.): Microsoft Corporation 30.4% Intel Corporation 24.7% Merck & Co., Inc. 19.6% The Coca-Cola Company 18.8% Pfizer Inc 17.1% AT&T Corp. 11.0% The Procter & Gamble Company 9.5% General Electric Company 9.3% Philip Morris Companies Inc. 9.1% IBM 7.1% Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 6.9% Exxon Corporation 6.4% Toyota Motor Corporation 3.2% Nippon T & T 2.9% John Noble --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 9 11:51:57 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:51:57 +0800 Subject: Batch DSA Message-ID: <199801091935.UAA03400@basement.replay.com> Batch DSA Amos Fiat invented a way to do multiple RSA signatures using only one full-sized exponentiation [J Cryptology v10 n2 p75]. The trick is to sign each one with a different RSA key, where the keys all share the same modulus n but differ in their public exponents e. A similar technique allows DSA signatures to be batched. As with Batch RSA, each message ends up being signed with a different DSA key, where the keys share the same p, q, and g values, but differ in their public y values, where y = g^x mod p for a secret x. These techniques may be useful for situations where heavily loaded servers need to digitally sign many responses. A DSA signature on a message M (where M is the hash of the actual data) is done as follows: Choose a random value k. k must be different for every signature. Calculate R = g^k mod p mod q. Calculate S from S*k = M + R*x mod q. Then (R, S) is the signature. The time consuming part of this is the calculation of g^k. This is the only exponentiation which must be done. All the other calculations can be very fast. We can't re-use a k value because it allows x to be discovered very easily. If two signatures (R, S_1) and (R, S_2) use the same k value, we have (mod q): S_1*k = M_1 + R*x S_2*k = M_2 + R*x The capitalized values are known, the lower case k and x are the unknowns. We have two equations in two unknowns, which allows us to recover k and x. If different x values are used for each signature, then it should be safe to re-use k. This is how Batch DSA would work. The signer would publish his public key as p, q, and g as usual, but now he would publish multiple y_i = g^x_i values. The convention is that any message is considered signed by the key if it is signed by any of the y_i. To sign a batch of messages, one k value is used for all of them. The same calculation as above is used: R = g^k mod p mod q (same for all) S_i * k = M_i + R * x_i mod q The signature is (R, S_i, i), where the index i is included to tell the verifier which y_i to use. This is not vulnerable to the problem above of re-using k. The multiple signatures have the relationships: S_1*k = M_1 + R*x_1 S_2*k = M_2 + R*x_2 S_3*k = M_3 + R*x_3 ... We always have more unknowns than there are equations, which hides the values of k and x_i. This same technique can be applied to most other discrete log signatures, which generally have the same structure although they differ in the details of how x and k are used to construct R and S. With Batch RSA, there is a tradeoff between batch size and efficiency. The calculations become inefficient for batch sizes larger than tens of messages when keys are about 1K bits. Batch DSA can efficiently handle larger batches, but it has a tradeoff between batch size and key size. Each key variant requires specifying a full-sized y value, while with Batch RSA the variants just required listing a small e value (and possibly not even that, if the exponents are the small primes). This will limit Batch DSA in most circumstances to similar batch sizes of on the order of tens of messages, otherwise the keys become unreasonably large. From tm at sk.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 9 12:14:47 1998 From: tm at sk.sympatico.ca (TruthMonger) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:14:47 +0800 Subject: Will Be: DEATH THREAT !!! to Follow... [Currently Is: Janet Reno is not an Indigo Girl...she's just ugly] Message-ID: <34919641.28BC@sk.sympatico.ca> BillyG, No doubt world leaders and titans of industry have noticed the recent pause in the steady stream of death threats they receive daily, and are worried about my health, but you're the only one who sent a "Get Sicker" card... Nonetheless, I must put off catching up on my thinly veiled threats of ChainSaw Justice for a bit longer, in order to address an even more important concern, namely: "How the hell can fag girls be so cute and make such great music, when Janet Reno is so fucking butt-ugly and can only make bizarre, senseless noise?" Anyway, when you see the $on Little$ystems and Nut$crape crowd, tell them that the crazy Canuck who used to roam their hallways screaming, "Give your software away, you fucking idiots...you'll get filthy fucking rich!" now says, "Hi...and go fuck yourself." It's bad enough that Corporate A$$holes (TM) want me to call a game, "The MegaCorp Making Money Off Of Amateur Athlete$ Bowl", but when the fuckers start making Micro$not Ba$hing (TM) a corporate game where the players wear shirts with little animals where the pocket for your butts is supposed to be... Oil the fucking chainsaw, eh? In my last thinly veiled death threat to BadBillyC, I told him to tell Ms. Justice-Is-Not-Only-BLIND-It's-UGLY-Too that "MICRO$NOT is to INSLAW...as...ChainSaws are to ButterKnives." It had nothing to do with the Indigo Girls CD that woke me up this morning reminding me of Indio, Indians and INSLAW, and everything to do with Micro$not Ba$hing (TM) being every bit as sacred as having a butt on the crapper in the morning. When America can no longer count on the Little Guy to war against such basic human degradations as Life Under DOS, then we are doomed--individually and as a nation. Which brings me to another rambling point totally unconnected to my last chain of thought... I got to fiddling with the car radio last week and inadvertently drove past the bar, thus launching the "TRUTHMONGER WORLDWIDE CHAINSAW RETRIBUTION TOUR." Next thing I know, I'm in goddam British Columbia, making plans to set a few of the Royal Canadian Mace Police on fire, pop on down to Seattle try to get all of my Micro$not setup disks replaced (why are the setup disks all make out of rice paper?), and set the final plans for your virtual chainsaw deletion in motion within the ranks of the Circle of Eunuchs-Redmond Chapter. Next on The LIST (TM) was stopping in at Tacoma and Portland and ringing a few AP Bells to bring in the New Year with a pocketful of Ha$hCa$h, and then continuing my Bombed Blitzkrieg with a Budweiser Battle in the Bay, gathering the nerve for a frontal assault on Mayonaisse Mountain with A Nuclear Device To Be Named Later. To make a long story short, I woke up on Gomez's doorstep down in Berzerkeley, with a hangover, a dog, a huge fucking moose bone, the flu (or perhaps just a touch of The Potato Famine), and no fucking ChainSaw. What is even worse is that I don't seem to be in possession of even the few meager munitions I always have packed and ready for emergency situations, but I *do* have some rather vague memories of the last week that seem to match the newsclippings on my dash in regard to a trail of ugly little incidents coinciding with the times and dates on the gas receipts stapled to them. At first, I assumed that my inability to recall any details in regard to several of the incidents was a good sign, but a physical inventory of my vehicle seems to provide substance to the growing thought that the circumstantial evidence against me outweighs the loss of memory from the alcoholic delerium tremors. I seem to have my Opus SparCard II stuff from my pal at ASIX, which would confirm the vandalism in Seattle. I've got payout tickets from the casino in Lake County, which means the clipping about the flash bomb in Vallejo needs to be burned almost immediately. I was convinced that I would be able to maintain deniability for the torching by the Dumbarton bridge, until I realized that the Master Tapes for "My Way or the Highway" and "Please! Stop Me Before I Sing Again" must have been picked up from Arcal, in Redwood City. I have no fucking idea whose butt that is sticking out of the shallow grave in my sister's back yard, but since it has my name tatto'd on it, I assume I'll be on a backroad headed toward Canada very, very shortly. Anyway, I suppose it is proper serial killer etiquette to provide a legitimate death threat once my travel plans back to CanuckLand are in place, so I will try to drop one in the email on the return trip. Actually, you should probably invite all of the major players from the Corporate Micro$not Ba$hing Bowl (TM) by Ralphie, et al, to your place for a "Peace Conference" during my return trip, and then spend most of your time in the underground bunker playing cards with the Reptilian Nazi's, or something. To tell the truth, I'd just as soon snuff those whining fuckers on this trip, anyway, and Seattle's a nice town, so I wouldn't mind making an extra trip in the future, anyway. Shit! I just remembered that TeddyK's trial is in Sacramento, not Vallejo. I probably ought to do this shit when I'm sober. Hell, I might end up actually hitting my target, for a change, instead of just another in a series of random, innocent bystanders. I think this potato salad's starting to go bad...which container did I put the rincin in? Shit...I'd better go put some alcohol in my system, just in case... TootMonger "Smoking Prudentially since 1991." From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 9 12:18:46 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:18:46 +0800 Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:01 AM -0800 1/9/98, Ryan Anderson wrote: >On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: >> Intel's failed competitors (Cyrix, AMD, Motorola, Sun, SGI/MIPS, >> Intergraph) can be counted on to run crying to Mother Government, crying >> that Intel is too successful. > >Failed? AMD is farfrom a failed competitor. Intel is nowhere near being a >monopoly. In this industry,Intel creates a chip, then AMD,Cyrix, etc take >the published specs on that chip and duplicate the work. They same some Charitably, I'll assume you just don't follow the industry very closely. I don't mean in terms of claims and press announcements, I mean in terms of the "ground truth" of what is real. Intel conservatively is now two full iterations ahead of AMD/Nexgen and/or National/Cyrix. The AMD K6 may not be quite the dog the K5 was, but AMD is woefully unable to *make* the part! (Manufacturing is more essential than most people realize. I could elaborate on this for pages and pages, but this is well-trod ground in, say, the Silicon Investors Forum and other such groups.) There have been reliable reports, from several kinds of sources, that AMD's Fab 25 in Austin is yielding only a handful of workingn (at speed) K6s per 8-inch wafer, versus well over 100 working (at full rated speed, importantly) Pentium IIs (and variamts) devices per 8-inch wafer. Intel is running at a nearly perfect yield rate (most die are functional, a very nice position to be in, and a very hard one to arrange). Intel also has about an order of magnitude more clean room space capable of making the Pentia (and Merced and Gunnison, etc.) than AMD has in Fab 25. ("Fab 25," by AMD's naming convention, means the fab opened in the25th year of business, not their 25th fab.) >effort from having to make opcode decisions, but then they don't get first >crack at the market. AMD has a *Very* good chip in the K6, receiving much >attention as being a serious competitor to Intel's chips. Well, look at their profits, Ryan! Go to Yahoo and look at both their earnings reports over the last, say, 5 years. Also look at their stock patterns. AMD is now trading at $18. Five years ago it was trading at the same price. In fact, it's been a narrow range between about 20 and 30 for most of that time, briefly blipping up to 40 before dropping back to the level it was half a decade ago. In fact, it's where it was in 1983, 15 years ago. (Check the charts.) Meanwhile, Intel has moved from $15 to $72 (today's price) in 5 years, and from something like $2 (or less, as the charts don't go back to '83 for Intel), up a factor of 30 or more times. Market caps are similarly skewed. Intel's market value is $120 billion, AMD's is $2.5 billion, a factor of 50 times lower. (They were within a factor of 3 of each other 15 or so years ago.) The problem AMD faces is not the adequacy of its design, "borrowed" from Intel, but its inability to compete in manufacturing costs. Even as AMD struggles to get yields up, and struggles to invest in the next generation of production equipment, Intel is building several new $2 billion fabs, all equipped with the latest equipment. (Intel continued to book orders for production equipment through the last mini-downturn in '95-'96, ordering equipment from Applied Materials, Lam Research, and so on. Guess what? When AMD and other small fry decided it was time to order, pronto, they found that the Applied Materials, etc. production was already committed to go to Intel! Jerry Sanders, top guy at AMD, cried "foul," but the fact was that Intel's enormous financial and market position strength allowed it to plan ahead and order the equipment and manufacturing space they'd need.) I have no doubt that some companies will design in the K6, and even the Cyrix version. I would if I were them, if only to put some pricing pressure on Intel. But the market share of Intel, at something like 90% (I won't dissect the various segments, but they range from 80% to 95%), and the huge costs to compete in the _next_ generation, really makes it almost impossible for small fry like AMD and Cyrix to do anything significant. Even if their yields were significantly higher than Intel's, which is technically impossible, their lack of capacity limits the inroads they can make. And my point is a larger, longer-range one. I haven't said I expect Justice Department action this year, or even next. But if Intel's Merced displaces workstation chips (the DEC deal, Sun to work on a competitive Solaris for Merced, the H-P/Intel alliance, and several other major deals), and if AMD and Cyrix are unable to make a dent in Intel's market share for PC chips, and if the motherboard integration continues (with Intel supplying motherboards that competitors can't readily match the peformance and pricing of), then I expect a Democratic Justice Department to move on Intel. Of course, those who feel AMD and Cyrix are about to knock Intel out of its present position have the best of all ways to vote their beliefs: by buying AMD (or National/Cyrix) stock at the current low prices. I wish you luck, really. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 12:21:44 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:21:44 +0800 Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News (fwd) Message-ID: <199801092045.OAA10031@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:11:44 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News > There have been reliable reports, from several kinds of sources, that AMD's > Fab 25 in Austin is yielding only a handful of workingn (at speed) K6s per > 8-inch wafer, versus well over 100 working (at full rated speed, > importantly) Pentium IIs (and variamts) devices per 8-inch wafer. Intel is > running at a nearly perfect yield rate (most die are functional, a very > nice position to be in, and a very hard one to arrange). > Intel also has about an order of magnitude more clean room space capable of > making the Pentia (and Merced and Gunnison, etc.) than AMD has in Fab 25. >From my contacts at AMD and personal experience working on the Semiconductor Technology program through Austin Community College 2 years ago I would have to agree with these claims. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 9 13:18:50 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:18:50 +0800 Subject: Batch RSA for stego data Message-ID: <199801092105.WAA15456@basement.replay.com> Problem: Suppose there is a source of data which looks like random noise but which contains embedded messages. This may be a subliminal channel in a crypto protocol, steganographically embedded data, or even a simple message pool where you want to disguise what key each message is for. How do you scan and identify messages for you? Solution: Extract bits as appropraite, apply whatever selection rules are necessary to pull them out of the stego'd data or other source. Some fraction of what results is messages for you, the remainder is noise or messages for someone else, which will be indistinguishable. Method 1: For finding messages sent by someone you have communicated with previously. Use shared secret data to flag the message. Method 1A: each time you send a message, include (in the encrypted portion) a 64-bit random value which will be used to flag the next message to them. Prepend the encrypted message with the 64 bit random value from the previous message. Each person keeps a list of the next random value to be expected from each communicant. The extracted data can be easily scanned to see if it matches anything on the list. Method 1B: use shared secret data and a sequence number to calculate a hash which will be used to flag the next message sent. This can be used to calculate the flag value to be expected for the next message from each sender, which can be compared against each potential message. For both methods 1A and 1B, once the message is recognized a shared secret key is used to decrypt the remainder of the data past the flag portion. The shared secret key can be changed after each message using similar techniques to changing the flags. (Safety tip: don't make the shared secret key the same as the flag value.) Method 2: For finding messages sent by someone you have never communicated with previously. Method 2A: Sender encrypts a low-entropy flag message with receiver's public key, pads it so it looks like random noise, and puts that at the start of each message. Receiver decrypts the beginning of each message using his private key, looking to see if the results are low entropy. When such a message is detected the secret key for decrypting the remainder of the message can be embedded in the low-entropy portion. Method 2B: Like 2A, but use Fiat's "Batch RSA" to decrypt multiple messages in one batch. Recipient publishes his public key with multiple legal exponents (say, the first 16 primes). Sender encrypts his low-entropy message choosing one of the encryption exponents at random. He checks to see if the low bits of the encryption output match the index of the encryption exponent (e.g. if the 7th encryption exponent was chosen then the low order 4 bits should hold the value 7). He repeatedly encrypts with different random padding until he finds an encrypted form which properly encodes the exponent. Receiver batches messages together such that the low order 4 bits of each message in the batch are different, and applies the Batch RSA decryption to try decrypting each message. As before the receiver looks to see if the result is low entropy. For both 2A and 2B it may be possible to do the decryption using only one of the two RSA primes, if the encrypted data was smaller than that prime value. (This idea comes from Shamir.) Even if not, the Batch RSA algorithm can be applied separately for the two primes and then the results combined at the end for each message via the CRT, as is often done for RSA decryption. From honig at otc.net Fri Jan 9 13:42:24 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:42:24 +0800 Subject: Germany not so worried about Gestapo wiretaps now Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109131833.007b0bd0@206.40.207.40> There are several examples of sacrificing liberty for security in a G7 country in the article below. Also the justification of "getting in line with other countries" is used for allowing civilian SIGINT practices previously banned. Thursday January 8 11:32 AM EST Germany to Restore Surveillance BONN, Germany (Reuters) - German political leaders agreed Thursday to allow police to bug apartments of suspected criminals, restoring a crime-fighting tool banned since abuses by the secret police in the Nazi era. Leaders from Chancellor Helmut Kohl's center-right coalition and the opposition Social Democrats (SPD) said they had reached a deal allowing police to plant microphones in private homes of suspected criminals for the first time since 1945. Both houses of parliament are now expected to quickly pass the long-debated measure, which police have argued was needed to better fight organized crime and bring the country in line with other nations that allow electronic surveillance. Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western world's most extensive civil liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional protections that have kept police out of private homes. Interior Minister Manfred Kanther said the agreement would give police the necessary tool to fight organized crime. "This is a decisive step toward more effectively fighting crime," Kanther said. "We can now keep surveillance on suspected gangster apartments and we will be able to better fight money laundering." The opposition SPD, which controls the upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, said it would support the measure after the government agreed to partial exemptions for some professional groups such as priests, attorneys and journalists. Police will be required to obtain advance court permission for any surveillance. Previously, police were only given rare exemptions to the constitutional law protecting the private home. They were allowed to use listening devices or electronic surveillance only with court permission if there was concrete evidence that a serious crime was about to take place. Now authorities will have the power to use eavesdropping methods far more extensively and will also for the first time be able to bug apartments after a crime has been committed to obtain evidence. Germany's post-war constitution barred police from electronic surveillance, telephone taps and intercepting mail. The bans on telephone taps and mail intercepts were relaxed in the 1970s amid a wave of left-wing guerrilla attacks. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 9 14:15:26 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:15:26 +0800 Subject: Germany not so worried about Gestapo wiretaps now In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980109131833.007b0bd0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: At 1:18 PM -0800 1/9/98, David Honig wrote: >There are several examples of sacrificing liberty for >security in a G7 country in the article below. >Also the justification of "getting in line with other countries" >is used for allowing civilian SIGINT practices previously banned. >Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western >world's most extensive civil >liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional >protections that have kept police out of >private homes. ... I suspect this is only a cosmetic change, in terms of realpolitik. The BND and other intelligence/law enforcement agencies have very probably been using the available SIGINT and COMINT tools....maybe just not using the captured data in courtrooms. (As with the U.S., where illegal wiretaps and bugs are used for ancillary purposes, even if not sanctioned by the courts.) But this still signals a move toward a '1984' situation, with Germany likely now to relax some of its objections to OECD plans for crypto restrictions (recall that Germany was opposed to some of the key escrow plans). And now that Japan has fallen into line (e.g., by banning the export of the RSA chip so touted by Bidzos and NTT), the OECD/New World Order is set to make some moves in '98. (Things have been quiet on the crypto legislation/international agreements front, from a news point of view, but we can safely assume that all of these bad things are moving along behind the scenes, and will once again become cause celebres.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From frisbee at pop.iuinc.com Fri Jan 9 14:21:24 1998 From: frisbee at pop.iuinc.com (Adam Tuliper) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:21:24 +0800 Subject: SSL DLL's? Message-ID: <199801092207.OAA09121@toad.com> Anyone know if there is a SSL winsock type control out there and what the name of it is? Thanks,... Adam From jongalt at everest.pinn.net Fri Jan 9 14:50:16 1998 From: jongalt at everest.pinn.net (Jon Galt) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:50:16 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <0af1f50d709c70d6ee98863386f81e59@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Anonymous wrote: > >> I also wouldn't trust Lance Cottrell. He's selling privacy for the > >$$, not > >> for the ideology; he'll bend over the moment he thinks there's more > >$$ in > >> bending over, which is usually the case. > >What is wrong selling privacy for money? > > It usually involves making it shitty. Oh yeah, that's the way free enterprise works... if you make your product shitty, your customers will pay more for it! Hey maybe if I do a crappy job, my employer will pay me more! ______________________________________________________________________ Jon Galt e-mail: jongalt at pinn.net website: http://www.pinn.net/~jongalt/ PGP public key available on my website. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. ______________________________________________________________________ From jamesd at echeque.com Fri Jan 9 15:04:32 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:04:32 +0800 Subject: Has anyone exported Crypto Kong yet? Message-ID: <199801092257.OAA21085@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- It seems likely that the current release candidate http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong is going to be the actual release 1.0. Being a good respectable law abiding American resident alien I intend to set up two buttons, one that you click on if you are are a US or canadian citizen, and one that you click on if you are not. It would be nice if the non citizen link led somewhere. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 7kglYb5GYi3VEyvppMeDd0zlnuKkh/uYzEXVxIl1 4uDBDw9n+6DVIw9foYasgSkcQcPEt7kui6qxpfkfc --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From anon at anon.efga.org Fri Jan 9 15:52:43 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:52:43 +0800 Subject: Microsoft's Future 2/2 Message-ID: Chances are it's a safe bet. While Microsoft concedes that Windows NT servers won't replace the world's supply of mainframe computers anytime soon, Jeffrey S. Raikes, Microsoft's group vice-president for sales and marketing, predicts that in the next few years, NT could unseat IBM's stalwart AS/400 minicomputer--a $3.4 billion annual business. By selling NT, Office 97, and a suite of networking software called BackOffice, Raikes' goal is to increase Microsoft's average annual revenues per corporate computer user from less than $150 today to more than $200 in the next two years. Analysts like what they see. They predict the software maker will sell $5 billion worth of NT and BackOffice by 2000, double what's expected this fiscal year. ''Today, we see Microsoft software at the heart of almost every desktop,'' says analyst Neil Herman of Salomon Smith Barney. ''In 10 years, we'll see Microsoft software at the heart of 90% of the servers out there, too.'' One company already feeling the heat is Netscape. On Jan. 5, the Silicon Valley highflier announced that its quarterly sales would be $125 million to $130 million--well below the $165 million analysts had expected. Worse, it will report its first loss in nine quarters. The reason: Netscape's server and browser sales are down because of stiff competition from Microsoft and IBM (page 69). ''Microsoft is the primary cause of Netscape's problems,'' says analyst Bruce D. Smith of Merrill Lynch & Co. That doesn't mean Microsoft will own enterprise. The operating system accounts for just 20% of the installed base of computer servers. And for the rest of that business Microsoft faces a revitalized IBM that is well entrenched in Corporate America and becoming a formidable competitor on the Net. After stumbling in the early '90s, IBM has made a remarkable comeback by using PC technology to sell mainframe computers costing less than one-tenth what customers paid in the late 1980s. That has kept many major customers true blue. Database giant Oracle also has an incredibly loyal following. It has 39% of that sector, vs. less than 4% for Microsoft's SQL Server. Microsoft's database software is still seen as not powerful enough to handle the really big jobs at giant corporations. ''Microsoft has given their database away, but it hasn't helped--because their database isn't any good,'' says Oracle's Ellison. And then there's Java. Sun Microsystems' much hyped programming language offers the prospect of an alternative to Windows, since applications written in it can run on any operating system. So far, Microsoft has convinced hundreds of corporate customers that they can save money by running even their biggest jobs on NT. But many companies still have millions invested in mainframes, and moving everything to Windows could take years. Java offers an alternative. This software--used to write other programs--runs on a variety of computer architectures. That helps it to act as a digital glue for creating programs that allow companies to use existing software, such as mainframe programs, while still tapping into new Internet businesses. Early this year, Java will get better yet. Improved security and performance could make it more appealing to use on a slew of devices. ''Between Java cards and Java rings and Java phones and Java set-top boxes and Java everything else, we're going to destroy them on unit volume,'' predicts Sun CEO Scott G. McNealy. For all this, analysts don't see Java replacing Windows anytime soon. The 700,000 software developers using Java pales next to the 4.5 million that Windows claims. Even John F. Andrews, chief information officer for transportation giant CSX Corp. and a huge Java fan, says: ''Java's a punch, but it's not a knockout.'' That's because Microsoft is well protected. Many corporations have already standardized on Windows and its desktop applications. So now, they're interested in buying software from Microsoft that can help tie their computer systems together more simply and run their large databases, accounting systems, and manufacturing operations. ''The plan ultimately is to run everything on one platform. That's the carrot out there,'' says Dean Halley, an information-systems executive at Credit Suisse First Boston Corp. THE INTERNET When it comes to new markets, none is as vast and potentially lucrative as the Internet. Analysts predict that Net revenues from software and commerce will reach dizzying heights--as much as $100 billion by 2000. And no single company is investing so much or so broadly--or holds as many of the pieces--as Microsoft. In the two years since it vowed to become a leader in cyberspace, Microsoft has been true to its word. The most visible proof is Internet Explorer. Since releasing the first version of IE a little more than two years ago, Microsoft has jetted from zero to 40% of the market. Moreover, if the software maker's plans to weave the browser into Windows 98 go unhampered by the Justice Dept., analysts expect IE to shoot past market leader Netscape to become No.1 this year. Microsoft's browser has one huge draw: It's free. Cash-rich Microsoft can afford such tactics, while scrappy rivals such as Netscape have to charge a few dollars. And that can make a difference. Internet service provider Concentric Network Corp., for example, switched from Netscape's browser to IE over price. ''We're operating on slim margins, so it matters,'' says Vice-President James Isaacs. That has sent Netscape looking for more lucrative server business. ''If I had to depend on the browser for profits, I'd be flat-ass broke,'' says Netscape CEO James L. Barksdale. In the face of a loss for the quarter, Netscape may be forced to match Microsoft's giveaway strategy. Internet Explorer is just the tip of the iceberg. Across the board, Microsoft is making the Net its No.1 priority. ''It's hard to think of much that we're doing that isn't influenced by the Internet,'' says Gates. ''All of our software is very tied up in helping people use the Internet in a better way.'' That includes deep-pocketed corporate customers. As they refashion their businesses around the Internet, Microsoft is out to make sure that Windows NT will be the software of choice. In the past few months, Microsoft has updated all of its corporate software to boost the latest Internet features. BackOffice, for example, now includes Commerce Server, specialized software that companies such as Barnes & Noble Inc. and Dell Computer Corp. use to run their online sales operations. As it does in the browser market, Microsoft gives away much of its basic Internet server software. It packages Internet programs, such as Site Server for managing Web sites, with BackOffice at no additional cost. And each copy of NT includes Internet Information Server, a basic Web-server program. That has helped catapult Microsoft's share of Web and corporate intranet servers to 55%, with all rival Unix makers combined at No.2, with a 36% share. The Net initiatives that draw the most attention, though, are Microsoft's attempts at building new Web-style businesses. It has set up 16 Web sites for everything from online investing to travel reservations to home buying. Some of these Web sites are already leaders in their categories. Microsoft's Expedia is in a dead heat with Preview Travel and Travelocity for the top spot in online travel, with more than $2 million in bookings a week. CarPoint has quickly become a popular spot for car buyers. This year, CarPoint is expected to begin offering insurance and financing services that will make it a one-stop shop for auto needs. Forrester Research Inc. predicts that CarPoint will rack up sales of $10 million a month within a couple of years. MSNBC, Microsoft's news venture with NBC, ranks third--after Softbank's news site ZDNet, and Walt Disney's site--in the most recent PC Meter Survey of Web-site viewership in the news, information, and entertainment category. Microsoft plans to launch a couple of new sites this year. One, code-named Boardwalk, will let home buyers shop for real estate and mortgages. The other is an online bill-paying service that will be operated as a joint venture with First Data Corp. ''There will be three or four major networks on the Internet, and we expect to be one of them,'' says Jeff Sanderson, general manager for Microsoft Network, the software giant's online service. By some measures, Microsoft is already there. PC Meter rates Microsoft's 16 Web sites combined as No.4 in its monthly survey--behind only America Online, Yahoo!, and Netscape. LOCAL UPRISING. The prospect of Microsoft entering everything from travel to car sales has put competitors on alert. Indeed, even a rumor of Microsoft's imminent arrival can jolt formerly complacent industries into action. Take newspaper publishers. Last year, when Microsoft announced it would launch Sidewalk, a series of Web sites offering local-entertainment listings, newspaper publishers geared up to protect their $24 billion in annual local advertising. Some 136 newspapers signed up with Zip2 Corp., a Mountain View (Calif.) supplier of online publishing technology that helps publishers create electronic versions of their newspapers. ''Microsoft tries to scare people into giving up, but it's just not working,'' says Zip2 CEO Rich Sorkin, who claims that his combined newspaper sites are racking up 8 million viewers a month--nearly triple the traffic Microsoft's 10 Sidewalk sites are drawing. So are critics' fears founded? Gates claims Microsoft has no grand plan to control the Net. What's more, not all of his Web ventures have been hits. Microsoft Network, the company's online service, has failed to live up to its early hype. LONG-TERM VIEW. While some of these new business are starting to pay off, Microsoft views the estimated $250 million a year it spends on Web sites as an investment in the future. ''Anybody involved in this is projecting out 5 to 10 years and asking what can they start to build now that can become more valuable as the Internet becomes more mainstream,'' says Gates. For that reason, Microsoft's biggest Web opportunity may lie in doing what it does best--creating software for others to use and build upon. It has begun selling its online travel software to airlines, including Northwest Airlines Corp. and Continental Airlines Inc. And American Express Co. is selling travel services to corporations based on Microsoft software called Microsoft Travel Technologies. ''They paid us quite a bit for that,'' says Gates. The potential looks huge: American Express Interactive is being rolled out in 20 large corporations, including Monsanto and Chrysler. An additional 180 companies will be using it by the end of 1998. All told, these companies represent more than $5 billion in yearly travel purchases, according to Microsoft's Richard Barton, general manager of Expedia. Still, it is unlikely that Microsoft will dominate the Web the way it has PC software. For one, it must compete against the giants in their fields, be they bankers, stock brokerages, real estate empires, auto makers, or travel agents. And the Web is still a work in progress, with new sites and opportunities popping up every day. Even with Windows as a starting point for most computer users, ''everything else is just a click away,'' says Bill Bass, a new-media analyst for Forrester Research. For his part, Gates doesn't show any willingness to let up to placate his critics or government investigators. And there's no sign in Redmond of complacency. In fact, Gates sees threats all around--even from operating systems that few people have ever heard of and Web sites that haven't been created yet. The key for Microsoft, he says, is satisfying customers, innovating, and keeping prices low. ''If we don't do all of these things,'' says its 43-year-old chairman, ''Microsoft will be replaced.'' It's that sort of paranoia that has enabled Mircosoft to survive and thrive. It's possible, of course, that competitors will blunt his new attack in at least some areas. But unless the government succeeds in a full-scale antitrust assault, Bill Gates and Microsoft are destined to become a still more potent force in the world's most important industry. By Steve Hamm in Redmond, Wash., with Amy Cortese in New York and Susan B. Garland in Washington, D.C. From anon at anon.efga.org Fri Jan 9 15:57:39 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:57:39 +0800 Subject: Microsoft's Future Message-ID: <8bd5d769a398c8464c62c1ebd07d42ed@anon.efga.org> MICROSOFT'S FUTURE A band of powerful foes is determined to slow the Gates juggernaut, but Microsoft's reach already extends further than you may think In December, Samuel Goodhope stood hunched over an Austin conference-room table eyeing a dismembered personal computer. As a special assistant in the Texas Attorney General's office and point man in its antitrust investigation into Microsoft Corp., he needed a keen understanding of a PC's innards. So a technician painstakingly explained how each of the components is supplied by a different company, but they must all work with the critical Windows operating system made by a single corporation, Microsoft. That's when it hit him: Microsoft owns a key monopoly in the Digital Age, and the software maker is a lot like the Borg. These fictional Star Trek characters--part flesh, part machine--prowl the universe conquering other races. ''Resistance is futile,'' says Goodhope in a mechanical, Borg-like voice. ''You will be assimilated.'' Microsoft and its hypercompetitive chairman, William H. Gates III, are no science-fiction fantasy. And the Texas Attorney General's office fully intends to resist. Indeed, Goodhope predicts that two dozen states will soon join his effort--amassing some 100 attorneys for a Big Tobacco-style courtroom battle that he says could reshape the computing landscape. ''We're talking about what the high-tech world is going to look like in five years,'' says Goodhope. ''Will the Information Superhighway become the Bill Gates toll road?'' Microphobia, a national pastime in recent years, is reaching a new frenzy. Since October, the most influential company in the $700 billion U.S. computer industry has been under siege from all quarters. Texas and eight other states have launched investigations into whether the software giant is using anticompetitive tactics. Consumer advocate Ralph Nader is calling for a breakup of the company. The European Commission is mulling a probe of its own. And Microsoft is embroiled in a knock-down, drag-out fight with the Justice Dept. over whether it is violating a 1995 consent decree by requiring PC makers to ship its Internet browser with Windows 95. ''This kind of product-forcing is an abuse of monopoly power--and we will seek to put an end to it,'' vows Joel I. Klein, Assistant Attorney General for the Antitrust Div. For his part, Gates denies violating any laws and says the earlier consent decree with Justice allows Microsoft to enhance Windows. Browsing, he says, is a natural addition to an operating system. ''What we're doing is quite straightforward and quite pro-customer,'' Gates says. ''In no way are we eliminating choice.'' He also bristles at the notion that Microsoft wants to turn the Internet into its personal toll road. ''We'll get our revenue from selling great software.'' Microsoft's dispute with the Justice Dept. is no mere joust over the mechanics of linking a Web browser to the ubiquitous Windows 95. The passions aroused in the government and industry alike reflect the realization that this is a bruising fight over which companies will dominate the Internet and move into new markets from there. The prize is huge. The Net not only opens the possibility of a vast new marketplace for everything from banking to buying cars, but it is also the electronic gateway into homes and--perhaps more important--into corporations. Owning the browser and Internet server software could well become as key to the new age of Net computing as Windows is to PCs. If Gates extends his PC hegemony to these new realms, the little software company he co-founded in 1975 could come to dominate the nexus of computing and communications well into the 21st century. ''The question is, are we looking forward to the Information Age, or will it be the Microsoft Age?'' asks Lawrence J. Ellison, chairman of database maker Oracle Corp. ''It's kind of like Microsoft vs. mankind--and mankind is the underdog.'' A BROADER CASE? Hyperbole aside, Microsoft wants to move into every business where software matters--from the chilled rooms of mainframe computing to the household appliances that are being computerized. Gates wants to expand into the corporate-enterprise market--from databases to E-mail. And he wants to play in consumer electronics--from TV set-top boxes to car navigation systems. Rivals and critics hope the Justice Dept. can slow down Microsoft's pace. The current dispute, which centers on Windows 95, is likely to have little effect on Microsoft. But if Justic broadens its suit to cover the upcoming Windows 98--something it has hinted it might do--or attacks Windows NT as well, Microsoft would suffer a devastating blow. ''Unless we're allowed to enhance Windows, I don't know how to do my job,'' says Gates. It would also set an ominous precedent that cuts to the heart of the software maker's strategy of melding Internet capabilities into all of its products--from PC software to new consumer-electronics offerings to corporate enterprise programs. It could get worse for Gates. No matter how the current dispute is resolved, Klein and his team could bring a broader antitrust case. Caswell O. Hobbs, a Washington (D.C.) antitrust attorney with Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, says the current consent violation case is just ''an opening salvo. I'm sure it's not the last of the proceedings.'' In its thinking on Microsoft, Justice is relying on a novel theory in antitrust law. It's not only about monopoly pricing power, as in the days of the Robber Barons. Information technology, after all, is an industry in which prices fall. Rather, Justice is concerned that Microsoft's operating system is so dominant that it is the de facto standard, the very springboard for all sorts of new applications software. By controlling the standard, Justice fears, Microsoft stifles innovation. That means competing technologies, even if they're better, stand little chance, making it tough for startups to bring whizzy new inventions to market. ''They're hell-bent on dominating the entire information infrastructure of the world,'' says attorney Gary Reback, who represents rival Netscape Communications Corp., ''and it scares the daylights out of me.'' Such talk rankles Gates. He says his rivals should spend less time obsessing about Microsoft and more time on their own businesses. What's more, he argues, there's no assurance Microsoft will succeed in any new markets, much less dominate them. The emergence of Netscape's popular Navigator browser and Sun Microsystems Inc.'s Java programming language--threats to Windows, as he sees it--shows that the industry is highly competitive. ''No one has a guaranteed position,'' says Gates. Point taken. But if ever there was a company that has the best seat in the house, it's Microsoft. It practically owns the PC software market. Its Windows operating system claims some 86% of that segment, and its Office suite of productivity programs, including a spreadsheet and word processor, has an 87% lock. Game won--and the victor has emerged enormously wealthy. Microsoft is expected to reel in more than $4 billion in profits this fiscal year, which ends in June, on $14 billion in revenues, up 23% over a year ago. It looks even richer when compared with the rest of the software industry: In calendar year 1996, its $8.7 billion in revenues accounted for 10% of all sales for the 613 publicly traded software and information-services companies, says Standard & Poor's Compustat. More significantly, its $3.1 billion in operating profits was a remarkable 30% of all such profits. With the company's pockets lined with riches from Windows and related software, it can spend a staggering $2.5 billion a year on new-product development--more than the annual profits of the next 10 largest software companies combined. And what it can't develop fast enough, the company can buy. In the past two years, Microsoft has invested in or acquired 37 companies. On Dec. 31, it added Hotmail, an Internet E-mail startup founded by Sabeer Bhatia and Jack Smith, for an estimated $350 million in stock (page 37). It has snapped up technologies for surfing the Web via TV, for viewing video over the Net, for authoring Web pages, and for computers to understand voice commands. And still its cash hoard keeps climbing--from $6.9 billion in mid-1996 to $10 billion today. That has helped Microsoft extend its reach to brand-new terrain. In the past year, Microsoft has gotten a jump in online travel services, car sales, investment advice, and gaming. And Gates isn't shy about his ambitions. ''We will not stop enhancing Windows,'' he says. ''We will not succumb to the rhetoric of our competitors. We won't stop listening to customers and being aggressive about meeting their needs.'' Indeed, 1998 may be the year Gates makes his biggest push yet beyond the PC. Starting this month, planned new products will move Windows into car dashboards, cell phones, point-of-sale devices, and on up the food chain into powerful server computers that can do the job of a mainframe. In short, the world ain't seen nothin' yet. Here's where Microsoft is headed. CONSUMER ELECTRONICS On Jan. 10, the next chapter unfolds. That's when Gates will head to the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas to demonstrate new $300-to-$500 palm-size devices that use a pint-size version of Windows called CE, for consumer electronics. These gizmos go a long way toward fulfilling Gates's dream of a ''wallet PC''--a tiny device for keeping phone numbers, schedules, and zapping E-mail, all of which can be synchronized with Windows PCs. A half-dozen manufacturers are ready to ship the new palmtops, including Philips Electronics and Samsung Co. The real buzz at the electronics show could come from the debut of Microsoft's ''Auto PC'' operating system. This version of Windows CE is built into a car's sound system. It can handle cell-phone calls, fetch E-mail, and dispense travel information--much like a ''Java car'' unveiled by rivals Sun, Netscape, and IBM in November. Nissan Motor Co. will be the first to show Auto PC in an Infinity I-30 concept car. So far only a handful of carmakers, including Volkswagen and Hyundai, have signed up. Microsoft is betting that aftermarket car-component companies will make Auto PC a hit. ''Windows CE gives us an opportunity to sell more software to more people,'' says Kathryn Hinsch, senior director of marketing for Windows CE. ''This could be the next billion-dollar business for Microsoft.'' Windows CE is a classic example of how Microsoft stubbornly pushes its way into new fields, even if it takes years. CE is the software giant's third attempt to crack the handheld market--after its At Work and Winpad operating systems that never caught on. Microsoft didn't give up. Over the past seven years, it has continued to invest several hundred million dollars to improve the basic software. CE was launched in fall, 1996, and nine months later claimed 20% of the handheld market, according to market researcher Dataquest Inc. Today, CE is licensed by more than a dozen handheld manufacturers, and it's finding its way into all manner of machines. Atlanta-based Radiant Systems Inc., for example, plans to sell Windows CE point-of-sale devices to fast-food restaurants this winter. Customers press buttons on a screen to select the food and drinks they want--and orders are instantly whisked to the kitchen. Such devices could help boost Windows CE to 60% of the U.S. handheld market this year, says International Data Corp. What happens when even the try, try again approach fails? Consider Microsoft's attempts to corral the TV set-top box market--the fulcrum for software, entertainment, and Net cruising. In 1994, it debuted a scheme for digital set-top boxes, but it fizzled along with the market for interactive TVs. So Microsoft tried a different method: acquiring the leading business. Last winter, Microsoft spent $425 million to buy Silicon Valley startup WebTV, which had pioneering technology for surfing the Net via TV. Since then, Microsoft has improved WebTV with a faster setup and, during the holiday shopping season, an added carrot--a $100 rebate to anyone who bought a $279 WebTV device and signed up for six months of the $19.95-a-month service. The result: WebTV has racked up 250,000 subscribers, up from 50,000 a year ago, say WebTV executives. Still, the world of TV is proving tricky for Microsoft. Last spring, the software maker once again began stumping to sell its designs to the nation's cable-TV operators for their next-generation interactive systems. The pitch: Microsoft would provide software for set-top boxes, networks, and servers that pump info across the cable network. When Microsoft paid $1 billion in June for a piece of cable operator Comcast, it looked as though it might buy its way into becoming a top supplier of software for interactive-cable systems. But no such luck--at least, not yet. In October, the cable industry announced it would require all suppliers to comply with a set of industry-standard specifications--not necessarily those of Microsoft. Gates regrouped. Microsoft revised its pitch to cable operators--agreeing to comply with the specs and to sell pieces of its software a la carte. It's unclear how Microsoft will fare, but one thing is certain: Cable execs have seen how successful Microsoft is in PCs and are determined not to let it control a key piece of cable-network technology. ''We don't want to be Bill Gates's download,'' says Tele-Communications Inc. President Leo J. Hinderly Jr. Still, rumors are swirling that TCI is about to accept financing from Microsoft--which could turn it into an ally overnight. CORPORATE COMPUTING Microsoft's high-stakes bid for the $30 billion corporate market has never looked so good. Four years ago, it was nearly a no-show in so-called ''enterprise'' software, which spans databases to E-mail to powerful servers. After a dogged three years and $1 billion spent beefing up its industrial-strength Windows NT, Microsoft is gaining ground. Today, NT accounts for nearly 40% of server operating systems, up from 24.5% a year ago, says IDC. That share could take off even more when Microsoft ships its fifth and most powerful version of NT late this year. With some 27 million lines of code, it is the most ambitious program Microsoft has ever tackled--and it could prove to be its trump card. NT 5.0 is designed to handle the largest computing tasks, giving Microsoft a sorely needed piece to push beyond midsize networks and small server jobs. Says James E. Allchin, Microsoft senior vice-president of Personal & Business Systems: ''Microsoft is betting the company on this.'' From scout at pluto.skyweb.net Sat Jan 10 09:00:14 1998 From: scout at pluto.skyweb.net (scout at pluto.skyweb.net) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:00:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Agent Scully & Pamela Anderson : EXCLUSIVE ! Message-ID: <15074286123.AV35443@lgpress4.net> From ycching at unitele.com.my Fri Jan 9 17:08:21 1998 From: ycching at unitele.com.my (Ching Yen Choon) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:08:21 +0800 Subject: Cracking a program Message-ID: <199801100849.IAA17818@acs.unitele.com.my> Let's say I have this encryption program and I don't know what's the algorithm used in it. Is there a technique I can analyse and break it? Are there any books or sites which teaches us how to do it? Any help is much appreciated Thank you. YeN ChOoN From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 17:31:07 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:31:07 +0800 Subject: Cracking a program (fwd) Message-ID: <199801100152.TAA11108@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "Ching Yen Choon" > Subject: Cracking a program > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:46:24 +0800 > Let's say I have this encryption program and I don't know what's the > algorithm used in it. Is there a technique I can analyse and break it? Are > there any books or sites which teaches us how to do it? Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C Bruce Schneier ISBN 0-471-11709-9 $49.95 US Internet Cryptography Richard E. Smith ISBN 0-201-92480-3 ~$40.00 US Disappearing Cryptography Peter Wayner ISBN 0-12-738671-8 $29.95 US Decrypted Secrets: Methods and Maxims of Cryptology F.L. Bauer ISBN 3-540-60418-9 $39.95 US ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 9 17:31:08 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:31:08 +0800 Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55e3ie25w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Tim May writes: > AMD is now trading at $18. Five years ago it was trading at the same price. > In fact, it's been a narrow range between about 20 and 30 for most of that > time, briefly blipping up to 40 before dropping back to the level it was > half a decade ago. In fact, it's where it was in 1983, 15 years ago. (Check > the charts.) > > Meanwhile, Intel has moved from $15 to $72 (today's price) in 5 years, and > from something like $2 (or less, as the charts don't go back to '83 for > Intel), up a factor of 30 or more times. This is not the way to compare 2 stocks. Let me illustrate this with a numericl example. Stock A has been trading at about $10 for the last 10 years. Every year it paid $5 in dividends. (OK, so why is it to fucking cheap) Stock B has appreciated from $10 to $20 over the last 10 years. Which has better total returns? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 9 17:32:13 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:32:13 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801091729.LAA09084@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <17F3ie27w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Jim Choate writes: > > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > > I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove > > that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. > > Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment > until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. Do you have proof that Gauss did that? This sounds like another one of those urban legends the envious sheeple like to invent about celebrities, like the claim that Leonrado da Vinci was a cocksucker. > > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. > > What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. You're citing janos Bolyai, who claimed exactly that. Unfortunately, the poor chap went insane. > > You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend > > being 25 years younger. > > Bolyai's father worked with Gauss (as I explained) and his son John also > worked with Gauss from the time he (Bolyai) was in school; not Gauss. You're confused, Jim. Farkas Bolyai (the father) never claimed to have invented non-euclidean geometry. He published a math textbook in 1829, with an appendix credited to his son, Janos, which contained the results published by Lobachevsky in 1829. He's lucky we're not accusing him of plagiarism. > I am going to refrain from going on with the remainder of your 'points'. Because if you tried to do that, you would again expose your ignorance, as you did when you tried arguing about Soviet-Japanese skirmishes in the 1930s. Coward. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 9 17:39:07 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:39:07 +0800 Subject: Germany not so worried about Gestapo wiretaps now Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980110013045.006e9b2c@pop.pipeline.com> Tim May wrote: >(Things have been quiet on the crypto legislation/international agreements >front, from a news point of view, but we can safely assume that all of >these bad things are moving along behind the scenes, and will once again >become cause celebres.) A clue to what's coming: BXA is due to issue its regulations for implementing the Wassenaar Arrangement about January 26, so wrote Jim Lewis at the agency. (Most here know that Wassenaar is an international agreement among thirty-plus nations to control export of technology, including encryption.) Other nations who have signed Wassenaar will probably follow suit, preceded already by Australia and maybe others. Scuttlebutt is that they're awaiting the US giant's move (or dealing for better incentives). Further, there's surely preparatory work going on for crypto legislation in the upcoming session, and we may see a push early in the term in concert with Wassenaar and perhaps other Net regulations stimulated by fear of infrastructure terrorism. What's worth pondering is what new arguments will be made for controlling/decontrolling crypto, new ways to divide the baby so every interest group can have a chunk, new serendipitous incidents, accidents and incentives. Recall Bill Renisch's comment that nothing has ever boosted interest in BXA-who like encryption, as several legislators and other who's-thats in and out of gov have discovered. Any topic that generates public attention is not to be ignored for long. Along parallel lines, The New Yorker mag of January 12 has two stories of note: A short one on how blame the militants for the OKC bombing so powerfully argued before the trials of McVeigh and Nichols was not pursured during the trials. It suggests an apology to militants is in order for groundless accusations. Another much longer on the economic theory behind Justice's attack on Microsoft and how it challenges free market theory, especially for high technology. That government intervention may be needed for the pervasive dependency of society on such technology because it has such vast potential for harm. A curious parallel to the argument for Wassenaar. From info at jewishpersonals.com Fri Jan 9 18:07:29 1998 From: info at jewishpersonals.com (Jewish Personals) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:07:29 +0800 Subject: Reminder Message-ID: <199801100143.RAA10447@toad.com> Dear Friend, At JewishPersonals, (http://www.JewishPersonals.com), we are dedicated to bringing Jewish Singles together. 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All services are provided by Jewish Communication Network, the premier Jewish Internet Company visits us at http://www.jcn18.com This e-mail was sent using an evaluation copy of dbMail by Mach5 Software. You can download a copy from http://www.mach5.com/. From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 18:16:02 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:16:02 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801100237.UAA11439@einstein.ssz.com> Ok, my absolutely last post on this issue. Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 19:50:35 EST > > Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment > > until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > > Do you have proof that Gauss did that? This sounds like another one of > those urban legends the envious sheeple like to invent about celebrities, > like the claim that Leonrado da Vinci was a cocksucker. It is a commen citation in several of his biographies. The first place I saw it was in a science history book that Isaac Asimov wrote (you know who he is I assume, known for writing world-class sci-fi and one of the best bio-chemistry textbooks around in the 70's and early 80's) back in the late 70's. It's the same book where he talks about Torricelli (he invented the mercurey barometer) and how he sent his brother-in-law into the bandit infested hills to actualy test the device. There seems to have been some indication that Torricelli had an alterior motive in this action. Unfortunately I think I have attempted to read a large fraction of the 300+ books that Asimov wrote at one time or another since about 1965 when I really started to read sci-fi and as a result they all seem to run together. I looked in the couple of Asimov books that I actualy own but unfortunately it isn't in either of them. I will look at the library I keep at the shop next time I go out there but it is equaly likely it was destroyed in my house fire 3+ years ago. If somebody out there knows which book this is I would appreciate the citation. I will add this to my 'hunt-list' that I keep as I tour the many bookstores here in Austin. If I find it I'll holler. > > > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > > > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > > > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > > > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. > > > > What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. > > You're citing janos Bolyai, who claimed exactly that. Unfortunately, the > poor chap went insane. No, I am citing the translator of Bolyai's book; Dr. George Bruce Halsted. If you want to discuss this further and intelligently it might do you well to have actualy read the book, which by your own admission you never have. Don't be a miser, spend the $6.00 US. I *might* take your comments a hell of a lot more seriously if just once you would cite a single reference to *any* of your comments or claims. It is interesting that when it comes down to proof you don't have the time to do the research nor do you *ever* fill any request for references. > You're confused, Jim. Farkas Bolyai (the father) never claimed to have > invented non-euclidean geometry. Your twisting words and dangerously approaching straight out lying. Both Farkas Bolyai and Gauss worked together on non-euclidian geometry. Let me quote the translators notes for the book: " But to prove Euclid's system, we must show that a triangle's angle-sum is exactly a straight angle, which nothing human can ever do. However, this is anticipating, for in 1799 it seems that the mind of the elder Bolyai, Bolyai Farkas, was in precisely the same state as that of his friend Gauss. Both were intensely trying to prove what now we know is indemonstable. ..." As to my making mistakes, big fucking deal. Everyone does. The difference between you and me is that I am not trying to do anything other than figure out what happened and why. If I'm wrong I'll admit it (and I am at least once a day). I am also willing to do the research (as best I can with what resources I have) and also willing to cite it. All I ask from those who wish to debate issues with me is equal treatment, in short the opportunity to review their sources and an honest opportunity to refute those sources. You seem to have a personal motive in everything you submit and further *never* cite any sort of source that can be reviewed and repudiated or supported. To put it bluntly, you lack honesty in your dealings with others. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 18:32:42 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:32:42 +0800 Subject: index.html Message-ID: <199801100253.UAA11537@einstein.ssz.com> Welcome to the Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer. The purpose of this mailing list is to explore the frontier of cryptography, civil liberty, economics, and related issues. This is a very high traffic mailing list. Several members of the mailing list are involved in various types of events through the year. Participation by members of the list does not construe any support or affilliation with the mailing list. Contact the author of all works obtained through the remailer network. They retain original rights. There are currently 4 indipendant but cooperating sites supporting full cross posting of traffic. The goal is to provide a mechanism for improved list stability as well as making moderation and other forms of attacks harder to mount. These sites are: ssz.com algebra.com cyberpass.net htp.com (Japan) If you have specific questions about the list or particular remailer host sites please contact postmaster at domain_name for further information. Should you be interested in participating as a CDR host then make an announcement on the list. This will allow all the sites to update their maps. All that is required to become a member is some form of remailer or forwarding mechanism and a means to delete multiple copies of the same message. Currently there are several remailer programs but majordomo is the most popular. In general a procmail script is used to remove duplicates. Please let others know about this mailing list, the more the merrier! To subscribe to the CDR you should contact the individual operators as conditions at each remailer site may be quite different. To subscribe through SSZ you should send a note to list at ssz.com or send an email to majordomo at ssz.com with 'subscribe cypherpunks email_address' in the body. If you have questions or problems contact list at ssz.com There may be local groups of members who have regular (or not) meetings in order to discuss the various issues and projects appropriate to their individual membership. These groups generaly announce their meetings via the CDR. Please feel free to make appropriate announcements of activity in your area. Some popular books that are well respected for learning about Cryptography and the various issues are: Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C Bruce Schneier ISBN 0-471-11709-9 Disappearing Cryptography Peter Wayner ISBN 0-12-738671-8 Internet Cryptography Richard E. Smith ISBN 0-201-92480-3 Decrypted Secrets: Methods and Maxims of Cryptology F.L. Bauer ISBN 3-540-60418-9 Some sites that that might be of interest: Austin Cypherpunks Soda Cypherpunks - Original site From wopeunua84 at toyoma-u.ac.jp Sat Jan 10 10:52:33 1998 From: wopeunua84 at toyoma-u.ac.jp (wopeunua84 at toyoma-u.ac.jp) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:52:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: XXX ADULT SEX!!! Message-ID: <199801104296VAA10778@post.121.47.225> Your Connection to Hot Sexy XXX Live Girls!!! *LIVE GIRL SEX SHOWS!!! * 10 FREE Live Video Feeds & Chatrooms!!! *FREE Erotic Stories!! *1,000's of Free Pictures of XXX Porn Stars!! *Confessions!!! *Plus Free Pictures of Teens & Men!!! *Live Erotic Chat!!! *Gambling * Tons of free stuff!!! So Much More we can't fit it on this page. See for yourself, go check it out!!! You must be 21 or older. Copy & Paste the link below into your browser, and press enter. It's that easy!!! http://www.search.com/Infoseek/1,135,0,0200.html? OLDQUERY=pussyclub+&QUERY=pussyclub+&COLL=11&START=10&OLDCOLL=WW If you take offense to this email & wish to be taken off our list, simply e-mail us at: stanleyo at hotmail.com We are sorry for any From declan at well.com Fri Jan 9 19:39:08 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:39:08 +0800 Subject: Will the First Puppy go under the ax? Message-ID: Q: Mike, before getting to more important issues, how come you guys aren't neutering Buddy? (Laughter.) MCCURRY: There are a lot of people around here who have been neutered, but I haven't heard a discussion of Buddy being neutered. I do not know the answer to that. I will talk to the First Dog owner and get the answer to that question. Q: You would know if there was going to be an announcement today, wouldn't you? MCCURRY: I would not go beyond what I just said -- the Treasury Department is the place to go. Q: On the neutering? (Laughter.) MCCURRY: Not on neutering. Can you spay or neuter a puppy? Q: Six months. MCCURRY: Any dog owners out there that can help us? Q: Mike, neutering is usually six months -- MCCURRY: That's what I thought. It's got to be a little bit older. Q: I heard that you were planning not to neuter him. MCCURRY: I wasn't planning to do anything with him. (Laughter.) Other than sucking up to the president by scratching little Buddy's belly from time to time. (Laughter.) Q: It will, however, be at risk. (Laughter.) MCCURRY: I'll find out on that. And I know your insatiable appetite for dog trivia -- I will see if I can find out about that. From anon at anon.efga.org Fri Jan 9 19:40:30 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:40:30 +0800 Subject: Spies like US Message-ID: http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000602131144806&rtmo=0sKsx2bq&atmo 0sKsx2bq&pg=/et/97/12/16/ecspy16..html A European Commission report warns that the United States has developed an extensive network spying on European citizens and we should all be worried. Simon Davies reports [INLINE] Cooking up a charter for snooping Spies everywhere A GLOBAL electronic spy network that can eavesdrop on every telephone, email and telex communication around the world will be officially acknowledged for the first time in a European Commission report to be delivered this week. The report - Assessing the Technologies of Political Control - was commissioned last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled intelligence stations on British soil and around the world, that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitor countless phone, fax and email messages. It states: "Within Europe all email telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency transfering all target information from the European mainland via the strategic hub of London then by satellite to Fort Meade in Maryland via the crucial hub at Menwith Hill in the North York moors in the UK." The report confirms for the first time the existence of the secretive ECHELON system. Until now, evidence of such astounding technology has been patchy and anecdotal. But the report - to be discussed on Thursday by the committee of the office of Science and Technology Assessment in Luxembourg - confirms that the citizens of Britain and other European states are subject to an intensity of surveillance far in excess of that imagined by most parliaments. Its findings are certain to excite the concern of MEPs. "The ECHELON system forms part of the UKUSA system (see 'Cooking up a charter for snooping') but unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, ECHELON is designed primarily for non-military targets: governments, organizations and businesses in virtually every country. "The ECHELON system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and then siphoning out what is valuable using artificial intelligence aids like MEMEX to find key words". According to the report, ECHELON uses a number of national dictionaries containing key words of interest to each country. For more than a decade, former agents of US, British, Canadian and New Zealand national security agencies have claimed that the monitoring of electronic communications has become endemic throughout the world. Rumours have circulated that new technologies have been developed which have the capability to search most of the world's telex, fax and email networks for "key words". Phone calls, they claim, can be automatically analysed for key words. Former signals intelligence operatives have claimed that spy bases controlled by America have the ability to search nearly all data communications for key words. They claim that ECHELON automatically analyses most email messaging for "precursor" data which assists intelligence agencies to determine targets. According to former Canadian Security Establishment agent Mike Frost, a voice recognition system called Oratory has been used for some years to intercept diplomatic calls. The driving force behind the report is Glyn Ford, Labour MEP for Greater Manchester East. He believes that the report is crucial to the future of civil liberties in Europe. "In the civil liberties committee we spend a great deal of time debating issues such as free movement, immigration and drugs. Technology always sits at the centre of these discussions. There are times in history when technology helps democratise, and times when it helps centralise. This is a time of centralisation. The justice and home affairs pillar of Europe has become more powerful without a corresponding strengthening of civil liberties." The report recommends a variety of measures for dealing with the increasing power of the technologies of surveillance being used at Menwith Hill and other centres. It bluntly advises: "The European Parliament should reject proposals from the United States for making private messages via the global communications network (Internet) accessible to US intelligence agencies." The report also urges a fundamental review of the involvement of the American NSA (National Security Agency) in Europe, suggesting that their activities be either scaled down, or become more open and accountable. Such concerns have been privately expressed by governments and MEPs since the Cold War, but surveillance has continued to expand. US intelligence activity in Britain has enjoyed a steady growth throughout the past two decades. The principal motivation for this rush of development is the US interest in commercial espionage. In the Fifties, during the development of the "special relationship" between America and Britain, one US institution was singled out for special attention. The NSA, the world's biggest and most powerful signals intelligence organisation, received approval to set up a network of spy stations throughout Britain. Their role was to provide military, diplomatic and economic intelligence by intercepting communications from throughout the Northern Hemisphere. The NSA is one of the shadowiest of the US intelligence agencies. Until a few years ago, it existence was a secret and its charter and any mention of its duties are still classified. However, it does have a Web site (www.nsa.gov:8080) in which it describes itself as being responsible for the signals intelligence and communications security activities of the US government. One of its bases, Menwith Hill, was to become the biggest spy station in the world. Its ears - known as radomes - are capable of listening in to vast chunks of the communications spectrum throughout Europe and the old Soviet Union. In its first decade the base sucked data from cables and microwave links running through a nearby Post Office tower, but the communications revolutions of the Seventies and Eighties gave the base a capability that even its architects could scarcely have been able to imagine. With the creation of Intelsat and digital telecommunications, Menwith and other stations developed the capability to eavesdrop on an extensive scale on fax, telex and voice messages. Then, with the development of the Internet, electronic mail and electronic commerce, the listening posts were able to increase their monitoring capability to eavesdrop on an unprecedented spectrum of personal and business communications. This activity has been all but ignored by the UK Parliament. When Labour MPs raised questions about the activities of the NSA, the Government invoked secrecy rules. It has been the same for 40 years. Glyn Ford hopes that his report may be the first step in a long road to more openness. "Some democratically elected body should surely have a right to know at some level. At the moment that's nowhere". See also in this week's issue: Pretty good Phil bounces back (a report on the consolidation of the reputation of Phil Zimmermann, creator of PGP). 14 October 1997: Europe's private parts to expand From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 9 21:07:53 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:07:53 +0800 Subject: Einstein quotes Message-ID: <199801100530.XAA12109@einstein.ssz.com> I thought I'd share these quote... The one quote that I found really funny is the one where Einstein says that had he known he would have been a locksmith. At some point after he came to the US somebody asked him what he would have been if he hadn't taken up physics. His reply was a plumber. He was promptly made an honorary member of the national plumbers union. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html > > ALBERT EINSTEIN QUOTES > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It is best, it seems to me, to separate one's inner striving from > one's trade as far as possible. It is not good when one's daily break > is tied to God's special blessing." -- Albert Einstein > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It may affront the military-minded person to suggest a reqime that > does not maintain any military secrets." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it > would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described > a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "So long as they don't get violent, I want to let everyone say what > they wish, for I myself have always said exactly what pleased me." -- > Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a > valuable gift and not as a hard duty." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Gravity cannot be held responsible for people falling in love." -- > Albert Einstein > > Thanks to Rick Burress > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two > minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like > two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein > > Thanks to Glen E Kelly > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned > my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, scince for > him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization > should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless > brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all > this, how despiceable an ignoreable war is; I would rather be torn to > shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that > killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- > Albert Einstein > Thanks to Alexander Elsing > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not > certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to > reality."--Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing. -- Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called > research, would it?" > - Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age > eighteen." > - Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Albert Einstein, when asked to describe radio, replied: > "You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull > his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you > understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send > signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that > there is no cat." > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > God doesn't play dice. > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World > War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > If A equals success, then the formula is _ A = _ X + _ Y + _ Z. _ X is > work. _ Y is play. _ Z is keep your mouth shut. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Man usually avoids attributing cleverness to somebody else > -- unless it is an enemy. > > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. -- > Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." --Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough." --Albert Einstein > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and > I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all > comprehensible." --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has > merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one." > --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." --Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing > is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --A. > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly > submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his > intelligence." --Einstein, Albert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, > education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would > indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of > punishment and hope of reward after death." --Einstein, Albert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the > creation of the world." --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If one studies too zealously, one easily loses his pants." --Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into > the world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's > discovery of fire. This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted > into the outmoded concept of narrow nationalisms. > For there is no secret and there is no defense; there is no > possibility of control except through the aroused understanding and > insistence of the peoples of the world. We scientists recognise our > inescapable responsibility to carry to our fellow citizens an > understanding of atomic energy and its implication for society. In > this lies our only security and our only hope - we believe that an > informed citizenry will act for life and not for death. > A. Einstein, 1947 d.C. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 9 22:58:44 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:58:44 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801100237.UAA11439@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <5BT3ie33w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Jim Choate writes: > > Ok, my absolutely last post on this issue. (Pointing to the horse) "He's dead, Jim." > > > Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment > > > until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > > > > Do you have proof that Gauss did that? This sounds like another one of > > those urban legends the envious sheeple like to invent about celebrities, > > like the claim that Leonrado da Vinci was a cocksucker. > > It is a commen citation in several of his biographies. The first place I saw > it was in a science history book that Isaac Asimov wrote (you know who he is > I assume, You're getting desperate, Jim, and resorting to cheap personal shots again. Yes, I know who Isaac Asimov was. In fact, I met him in person. He made many little mistakes in his "popular science" writings. I don't consider him to be a credible source as far as personal gossip about dead science personnages is concerned. Any other citations for your bizarre accusation? > > > > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was n > > > > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > > > > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dir > > > > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice per > > > > > > What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. > > > > You're citing janos Bolyai, who claimed exactly that. Unfortunately, the > > poor chap went insane. > > No, I am citing the translator of Bolyai's book; Dr. George Bruce Halsted. > If you want to discuss this further and intelligently it might do you well to > have actualy read the book, which by your own admission you never have. > Don't be a miser, spend the $6.00 US. It's not the money, it's my time. I am indeed being miserly with my time, Jim. Sorry, I don't think it's worth my time to read the rants of an insane person claiming that Lobachevsky was not a real person, but a "tentacle" of Gauss. We get more than enough of those on the cypherpunks list, from Timmy May &co. > I *might* take your comments a hell of a lot more seriously if just once you > would cite a single reference to *any* of your comments or claims. It is > interesting that when it comes down to proof you don't have the time to do > the research nor do you *ever* fill any request for references. You're lying, Jim. For example, you've asked me for a reference to the national origins act, which barred inter alia Japanese-born immigrants from 1924 to 195x; something you should have been able to verify for yourself. I gave you a reference to a Russian book on US history, knowing that being an ignorant American you can only read English. If you like, I can cite a number of Russian books on history of math as well, which won't do you any good. > Your twisting words and dangerously approaching straight out lying. And I've just caught you straight out lying. > Farkas Bolyai and Gauss worked together on non-euclidian geometry. Let me > quote the translators notes for the book: > > " But to prove Euclid's system, we must show that a triangle's angle-sum is > exactly a straight angle, which nothing human can ever do. > However, this is anticipating, for in 1799 it seems that the mind of the > elder Bolyai, Bolyai Farkas, was in precisely the same state as that of his > friend Gauss. Both were intensely trying to prove what now we know is > indemonstable. ..." Probably hundreds of mathematicians since Euclid's times have tried and failed to prove the 6th axiom as a theorem that follows from the other axioms. Farkas may have been one of the hundreds of people who wasted time trying to prove a false statement during two millenia. Gauss, Lobachevsky, and Janos Bolyai (the son) all proved that this axiom is independent of the others and pondered what kind of geometry would arise if it were omitted. Do you understand the difference? Do you have any evidence that Farkas's waste of time in 1799 contributed to either Gauss's or Janos Bolyai's impressive results 20+ years later? > As to my making mistakes, big fucking deal. Everyone does. The difference > between you and me is that I am not trying to do anything other than figure > out what happened and why. If I'm wrong I'll admit it (and I am at least > once a day). I am also willing to do the research (as best I can with what > resources I have) and also willing to cite it. All I ask from those who wish > to debate issues with me is equal treatment, in short the opportunity to You should cut down on personal attacks and flaming. > review their sources and an honest opportunity to refute those sources. You > seem to have a personal motive in everything you submit and further *never* > cite any sort of source that can be reviewed and repudiated or supported. Again, you're lying. Have you tried to refute the national origins act? My sources are Russian books on the history of math. Since you can't read Russian, there's no point for me to site them for you. > To put it bluntly, you lack honesty in your dealings with others. Jim, why do you insist on turning any discussion into a barrage of personal attacks, cheap shots, and outright lies? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From m2cresumes at earthlink.net Fri Jan 9 23:09:33 1998 From: m2cresumes at earthlink.net (m2cresumes at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:09:33 +0800 Subject: Access Over 1 MILLION Resumes! Message-ID: <1> NOT a job site, NOT a search engine, NOT a career board, NOT a newsgroup AND we do NOT limit you to a single database! U S Resume is a true technological leap. It allows subscribers access the OVER 1 MILLION resumes on the ENTIRE INTERNET (source: Electronic Recruiting Index, Dec. 1996). It finds your candidates and also downloads their resumes to your hard drive all automatically, so you can browse them later with NO Internet wait time. 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From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 10 00:51:08 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:51:08 +0800 Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [1/4] Message-ID: <199801100844.JAA10497@basement.replay.com> The following series of posts is extracted from E-Communist. In this article the writer (but a mere cog in the Anonymous Entity known as GovernMedia NLC), exhibits the guVermin cheerleading so pervasive among those in his/her profession. In keeping with the spirit of anonymous advocacy favoring global fiscal tyranny, "our" collectivistic comments are in brackets as indicated: [S'n'S] Originally assigned the staid title 'Money Laundering', "we" have taken the indecent liberty of naming each post separately: Part 1 "Know Your Journalist" [1/4] [1/4] ... countries set up the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) [not to be confused with the BATF] in 1989. Based at the OECD [worthle$$ bureaucracy #2] in Paris, this now has 26 member countries, which are supposed to abide by its 40 recommendations. Among other things, these encourage mutual assistance in laundering cases. International co-operation is also being fostered by financial-intelligence units [FiUs], some of which recently set up a special computer network to swap information about laundering cases. A statistical black hole What effect has all this had? It is hard to tell for sure, but such evidence as looks reliable is hardly encouraging [discouraging]. A report published in 1995 by AUSTRAC, [worthle$$ bureaucracy #3] Australia's financial-intelligence unit, concluded that between A$1 billion and A$4.5 billion ($740m-3.3 billion) was washed through Australia each year. The report noted that if this figure is accurate, then Australian poLice were recouping [recouping?, proceeds of voluntary exchanges are considered stolen when in fact those doing the "recouping" are the criminals] barely 1% of all the ["]dirty["] money that they [_]guess[_] is flowing into [but not flowing out of? It must be all those "dirty" foreigners corrupting the innocent Aussie drug addicts and tax evaders] the country--a surprisingly low figure given that Australia is widely acknowledged to have one of the most comprehensive anti-laundering regimes in the world. [so AUSTRAC thugs are basing their conclusions on guesstimates, which, if as accurate as they kinda sorta think they might be indicates: Minions of the Australian FIU stole, that is, recouped, some 10-45mil AUD in cash and an unspecified amount of other property, but this is "barely 1%" of the _potential_ bounty to be had in the lucrative worldwide industry of asset forfeiture. Allow me to "guesstimate" a couple of other conclusions they may have made: 1) AUSTRAC lacks sufficient funding (AUSTRAC clerks still lack vacation slush funds). 2) AUSTRAC lacks sufficient personnel (AUSTRAC entry teams are still without APCs and close air support).] When it comes to prosecutions of money launderers, few countries keep reliable statistics, often because laundering was only recently deemed a separate ["]crime["]. One that does is the Netherlands. According to its justice ministry, in 1995 some 16,125 [subjectively] ["]suspect["] transactions were reported to the country's financial-intelligence [looting] unit. Only 14% of these were sufficiently dubious [read: juicy confiscatable assets of sufficient size coming to their attention due to amateurish operations that lacked political protection which made these "suspect" assets worth the time and effort to grab] to pass to the poLice, and only 0.5% of the original total led to prosecutions. [no mention of the % of cases that led to confiscations] Anecdotal evidence suggests a similar lack-of-["]success["] elsewhere. Why aren't more laundrymen being caught? [what about laundrywomen, the sexist pigs!] The answer, say those leading the fight against dirty [free] money, is that most anti-laundering regimes are still in their infancy. [yet to grow into the horrid monsters of their wet dreams] But, they say, at least the situation is improving. [deteriorating] Stanley Morris, FINCEN's [worthle$$ named bureaucracy #4] director [thug], says undercover operations in America show that launderers' fees have risen from around 6% of the money washed in the early 1980s, to 25-28% today. The explanation is that laundering is getting harder and riskier--and hence more expensive. Some experts also claim that a recent increase in the ["]smuggling["] of cash across borders is a sign that [gasp] more ["]criminal["] ["]loot["] is shunning banks. [meaning people are fed up with American banks, American regulators and America in general: "sell off, cash in and drop out".] There has also been some progress internationally. A few well-known haunts of launderers, such as Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, have made it easier for bankers to report ["]suspect["] transactions [reclaiming lost virginity] without breaking bank-secrecy laws, and for their financial gumshoes to co-operate with foreign ones. [meaning they already have so much money on deposit that it won't effect profits significantly, besides which, the typical lazy African dictators' first choice remains CH and those who are concerned about such matters have long since moved to greener pastures anyway...] In February, Antigua, another Caribbean haven, closed five out of six Russian offshore banks because of concerns that they had been laundering money for Russia's mafia. [no security through obscurity there] The FATF has also cracked down. [pun intended?] Last year, for the first time, it publicly upbraided one of its members, Turkey, for not introducing an anti-laundering law. [Turkey, a typical 3rd world pit, is too busy stealing from its citizens via hyperinflation to bother with passing pro-looting legislation.] And it gave banks a warning abot dealing with Seychelles after the government offered anyone placing $10m or more in certain investments immunity from prosecution [no STO there either]. The law containing this open invitation [more like comic relief] to crooked cash has since been shelved. > E-Communist > 25 St James's Street > London SW1A 1HG > www.economist.com Fly low S'n'S Pro:__Money Laundering__Self Medication__Militia Grade Arms__Realism________ __Indirect Taxation___________Adults___________Individual Irrevocable Right$ } Smurf N Sniff Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra | } P.O. Bunker 6669 "We don't want to be like those paranoid | } Hohoe, Ghana Americans, this is a social DemoBracy." | } fn-fal at edict.gov.un +233 55 1234 boycott GovernMedia NLC | ANTI:_feral guVermin____Vooters__________blue hellmutts______nihilists______ __biometric herd management__"(The) children"__state granted privilege_____! From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 10 01:07:25 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:07:25 +0800 Subject: your mail Message-ID: <199801100900.KAA11892@basement.replay.com> >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers > writes: >>On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: >> >>I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > >I think so too what's his email address????? > > > >Anonymous304 Uh, you subscribe to the list but you can't find Vulis' address? Just how stupid are you? From cnn at dev.null Sat Jan 10 03:56:20 1998 From: cnn at dev.null (Bezerkeley Nutly News) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:56:20 +0800 Subject: Anger Crimes Up 442% In Bay Area Message-ID: <34927314.21AC@dev.null> [Bezerkeley Nutly News: Special Report by Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw] AT AN EMERGENCY CYPHERPUNKS PHYSICAL MEETING AT THE W&S TAVERN AT 5 a.m. in south Berkeley this morning, a lone gunman held police at bay for several hours before escaping with a carton of cigarettes and several bottles of cheap scotch. While W&S Tavern owners explained to reportwhores that they had no plans to seek charges against the unknown gunman, since he used to be a regular customer and a good tipper, a police spokesperson told the same reportwhores, under promise of UnAnonymity, that they would be seeking the death penalty for the gunman, if caught, under the recent Criminal Emotions legislation passed last week by the Politically Correct Peephole's Party at a recent Bezerkeley City Council meeting. "Although the PCP leaders have only had time to train and deploy a few hundred volunteers trained to recognize the signs of the new Criminal Emotions," said Anonymous Badge #356, "it has already become apparent that Anger and Negative Attitude crimes are skyrocketing out of control in the Bay Area." "The physical gunshot wounds suffered by several officers tonight will heal, with time," the gender-neutral individual continued, in a monotone voice, "but the anger expressed toward them by the gunman will remain with them forever, or until the gunman apologizes, if caught." Several hundred Postal Workers have already been detained and sent for pschological testing in the Berkeley area under the strict new laws governing restriction of expressions of disgruntlement within 500 feet of a mailbox by federal postal employees. A US Postal Service spokesperson told reportwhores, "I'm certainly not happy about this..." and was immediately arrested and whisked away by a group of homeless people helping to enforce the new legislation in return for Bezerkeley City Council's promise to add shopping cart lanes next to the current bike lanes on city streets. A member of "The Disgruntled Postal Workers", a Tucson-based muscial group exempted from the new legislation under the "artistic license" provisions, said, as he went through the pockets of the dead fans who failed to escape during the climax of the performance, "I think the gunman at the W&S Tavern was a member of 'The Angry Young Men' who opened for us, so it is unlikely any charges can be laid in the incident, unless he actually smoked some of the cigarettes in the bar during the shooting spree." The owner of the W&S Tavern, when asked by reportwhores if he was unhappy with the damage done to the bar during the shootout, consulted briefly with his attorneys regarding the new Criminal Emotion laws in the Berkeley area, and replied, "No. I'm perfectly happy with the situation." A nearby Berkeley policeman immediately shot down the bar owner, saying, "He looked a little *too* happy, if you ask me." The attorneys merely shrugged as the man lay dying on the sidewalk, telling reportwhores, "The laws are clearly written not to allow deviation of emotionally legal expression too far in *any* direction, and we find that to be... uuhhh...acceptable." Every bar owner contacted by this reportwhore in regard to the new law prohbiting drinking, as well as smoking, in Bay Area bars, said that they were "cautiously optomistic" that their business would not suffer as a result of the legislation. "What we lose in volume, we can make up with lower overhead costs by not needing to stock any of the products we sell." said one bar owner as she placed a 'For Sale' sign in the front window. From ryan at michonline.com Sat Jan 10 04:08:41 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:08:41 +0800 Subject: This may be of interest... Message-ID: http://www.law.emory.edu/ELJ/volumes/sum96/lessig.html If it doesn't hit you immediately, let me help. The lawyer who wrote this is the "Special Master" in the DOJ vs. MS case. It's an interesting paper, and should shed some interesting light on his viewpoint in the MS case. Enjoy! Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Part 2 "Journalistic Secrecy is a Serious Problem" [2/4] [2/4] Taken to the cleaners ["]Un["]fortunately, some of this is not as encouraging as it sounds. For a start, the ["]dirty["] money leaving banks may end up polluting other businesses [MONEY LAUNDERING IS GOOD FOR BUSINESS]. PoLice in Texas say that foreign-exchange bureaux there have been a primary conduit for channelling drug money to and from Mexico. Insurers are also vulnerable. One recent laundering wheeze involves buying single-premium insurance policies with ["]dirty["] money. These are then cashed in early in return for a "clean" cheque from the insurer, or used as collateral for a bank loan. [On the way: Currency Transaction Reports for purchase of insurance policies with cash and Early Redemption Reports for policies held less than 50 years. Insurance agents will be required to report "suspicious" policy holders and report possible "structuring" violations. Then they'll wonder why customers are "shunning" insurance companies.] Even the rising cost of laundering may not be unalloyed good news. It may simply reflect the emergence of a new group of professional launderers who are better at beating the system, and charge more for doing so. [Or as Comrade Clinton would put it, "getting their fair share"] Some poLiceman fear that these experts may soon be using electronic-cash systems to speed up the wash cycle (see box on next page). [See post 4/4] Worse [Better], as old laundering centres close their doors, new ones are opening theirs. The table above [shown below this paragraph] shows the countries that the State Department thinks face a severe money-laundering problem. (Even states with tough anti-laundering rules, such as America and Britain, are listed if their vigilance is considered essential in the global fight against laundering.) The striking thing about the ranking is that it includes islands such as Cyprus, a ["]hive["] of offshore activity for the Russian mafia, and Aruba, a Dutch dependency in the Caribbean, which were not associated with laundering a few years ago. [Translation: Aruba et. al. have always been on their shit list, and now that they've taken out the higher-priority targets e.g. CH and Cayman, the NWO _Microchip Extremists_ are setting their sights on shutting down the lower-yield peripheral sites. (which they've "only just recently discovered" are pro-privacy areas)] Another notable inclusion is Mexico, which the report describes as "the money-laundering haven of choice for initial placement of US currency in the world's financial system". In March, the [criminal] Mexican government unveiled a series of anti-laundering [fig leaf] measures in a belated effort to clean up its reputation. Laundry list "High-priority" laundering centres, March 1997 A B C D Aruba yes . . yes Canada yes yes yes yes Cayman Islands yes yes . yes Colombia yes . . yes Cyprus yes na yes yes [Doesn't indicate differences between Greek and Turkish regs, if any.] Germany yes . . yes Hong Kong yes yes . yes Italy yes yes yes yes Mexico yes . yes . Netherlands yes yes yes yes Netherlands Antilles yes . . yes Nigeria yes . . na Panama . . yes yes Russia . . . . Singapore yes . yes yes Thailand . . . . Turkey . . . . Britain yes yes yes yes United States yes yes yes yes Venezuela yes . yes yes A Banks required (or permitted) to report suspicious transactions. [Communese translation: entry-level bank tellers required (or permitted) to make subjective determinations as to customers' intent and/or state of mind. Required (or permitted) to report people encountered on city streets who may be shunning banks in favor of foreign-exchange houses and cheque-cashing outlets. Development of mind-reading skills mandated by executive order.] B Government permits sharing of seized assets with other governments that assisted the underlying investigation. [Communese translation: Thieves drawing paycheques from extorted proceeds allowed to share stolen goods with accomplices in other jurisdictions. The Legislator/B-Crat/Snitch/Judge motto: "We Know Em When We Seize Um"] C Non-banks must meet same anti-laundering provisions as banks. [Communese translation: The woman with an appearance approximating the Wicked Witch of the West sitting behind the .357 Magnum resistant plastic that slips you 10,000,000 Bongonian bellylints in exchange for 10 euros is also a deputized collectivist agent/informant.] D Financial institutions and employees who provide otherwise confidential data to investigators pursuing authorized investigations are protected from prosecution. [Communese translation: Deputized Government Agents/Informants (that is, anyone with whom you exchange legal tender bank notes, a.k.a. "dirty" money) who provide "otherwise confidential" data so that "authorized investigators" may empty your bank account are not accomplices to looters with sovereign immunity.] Source: US Department of State (International Narcotics Control Strategy Report) [Source: Illegitimate Spawn of Hegel (Global Currency Confiscation Strategy Report)] [Notice again that the less fiscally totalitarian states are those actively engaged in recalling their worthless currencies, forbidding (in theory) their domestic hostages from sending capital abroad, forbidding (in theory) holding gold or using other means of protection from criminal governments, defaulting on foreign loans and various shenanigans in a similar vein. From this it can be concluded that for those on the outside looking in, chronic economic mismanagement and chaos are not necessarily a negative, these areas provide excellent entry points in the "rewire-chain"...] In the future, more Asian countries could be added to the list. Rick McDonell [, looter ], the FATF's representative [of Satan] in Asia, warns that the region is ["]vulnerable["] to laundering because many of its economies are heavily cash-based. [Solution: go hire Jerry Seinfeld, Patrick Stewart and all the other convenience-card whores to shill for the cashless society in Bangkok, Guangzhou and Kuala Lumpur?] Moreover, some countries such as India and Pakistan have large "underground" banking systems which sit alongside official ones [hawala]. Usually based on family or regional networks, these shift large amounts of money [and other stored units of value, e.g. crates of Avtomat Kalashnikova, "illegal" cash crops, RPGs, precious stones] around anonymously and cheaply. [25-28% markup indeed! Forget that rubbish] Such attractions, plus a lack of anti-laundering legislation, have already turned Thailand into a launderers' paradise. A report published last year [yet another report, this journalist needs to get out into the real world, hanging with fiscal bureaucrats and professors is stunting Anon-E-Communists' growth] by Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University put the amount of money washing through the country each year at 730 billion baht ($28.5 billion). This is equivalent to 15% of Thai GDP. [In future watch for the following commercials to be run in these vulnerable-to-laundering cash-based-economy television markets: (Jackie Chan dubbed in various local dialects) Amarakan Sexpress - don weave shantytown witoutit VIZA - accep at FinSEN office wowide MassaCard - it's swave money] > E-Communist > 25 St James's Street > London SW1A 1HG > www.economist.com Fly low S'n'S Pro: Money Laundering, Self-Medication, Militia-Grade Arms, Realism Pro: Indirect Taxation, Adults, Individual Irrevocable Rights } Smurf N Sniff Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra | } P.O. Bunker 6669 "We don't want to be like those paranoid | } Hohoe, Ghana Americans, this is a social DemoBracy." | } fn-fal at edict.gov.un +233 55 1234 boycott GovernMedia NLC | Anti: feral guVermin, Vooters, rapacious tyrants, nihilists Anti: biometric herd management, "(The)" children, state granted privileges From 00000 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 10 22:55:28 1998 From: 00000 at hotmail.com (00000 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:55:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Make $100 everytime the phone rings!! Message-ID: <> ============================================== "Internet Marketing Warriors Secret Site!"(tm) Copyright 1997 by Allen Says ============================================== " I Never Made A Dime On The Internet " ..UNTIL.. I GOT MAD AS HELL !! "After That, I've Made Money Every Day Since And I'll Show You Exactly How To Get Started Doing What I Did!" The Start of the Warriors!! One night, after a long period of NO responses to all my ads, I compeletly flipped out! 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Thousands more being added every week!! # 5 Different Email Address Extractors!...one extracts addresses at 60,000 per hour! # Free Web-Based Bulk E-Mailer - Awesome! Mail Your Message At Rates Up to 250,000 An Hour!! # How to use a Free Email Address Stripper on the secret site to go onto aol and collect 1000's of 'targeted' email addresses from the forums, message boards and member directory!! Every day...FREE!!! # A Copy of The Special Report: How To Make At Least Make $1,600 a Week Online..Starting Now! # Learn the Secrets of BulkMail - How to Setup a Free Email Extracting and Mailing System Using Freely Available Programs!! # 38 of the 'Hottest' Marketing Reports Ever Written!! # 6 "Must Have" Books On Disk (the "forbidden" secrets and strategies of getting 1000's of customers from the net!) # Lifetime Subscription to the "Internet Marketing Warriors Letter!"...Every New Issue Posted To The Secret Site.... You Will Also Have Lifetime Access To The Warrior Forum Where You Will Find Your Every Question Answered And Put Your Business Light Years Ahead Of The Competition!! "Inside The Warrior Forum" # How To Accept Credit Cards For Your Business..NOW! You DO NOT need a merchant account. Find THE Sources That Will Get You Going Today!! # Meta Tags - How to get top listings in search engines! # In depth talks on getting around AOL blocking!! Warriors get through when no one else can!! # In depth reviews of all major bulk mailing & extracting software - Netcontact, Floodgate, Stealth (all versions), E-Mail Magnet, Extractor Pro and more - Find out the truth BEFORE you buy!(Honest Reviews - Not by sellers - but by actual buyers & users!) # Access to one of our members bulk emailing support site... tons of free features, value and help!! # Members who will submit your site to hundreds of search engines for free...just because you are a Warrior!! # Discover the secrets and power of CGI/PERL in bulk mailing!! # More Secrets about Autoresponders!! # Killer Headlines & Sales Advice!! # How to print your own money....legally!! # Tricks to cut down on flames!! One dealer is making a ton of money using this trick and gets very few flames!! # Softsell vs. Hardsell....Which works best? # Make Every Ad of Yours a Success!! # Bulk Email Myth #1.... # Part 1: Copywriting Secrets! Part 2: Copywriting Secrets! # Avoid this disaster when bulk mailing!! # Sources for the latest bulk email accounts!! # Some members are forming bulk e-mail co-ops and partner groups right now!! Need to hear from other Warriors? Allen, This is absolutely unbelievable. Within two days I have already made in excess of $200.00 and it only took about 2 hours to do every thing. The marketing reports that you supply are absolutely outstanding!! I have to say....my hat goes off to you. I am glad that there is someone out there who will give your moneys worth and a whole lot more!! Thanks a Million, J.R. (Florida) Hi Allen, Just a quick thank you note for creating the Warrior site. After a full two years of banging my head against the monitor screen, trying to make money on the internet, I finally have learned the secrets that I needed to make it all happen. Sponsoring people into my MLM program has never been easier and I don't worry anymore about losing my internet connection for sending bulk e-mail. The contacts I have made in the forum have turned into pure gold and will continue to further educate me in the proper methods of internet marketing. Keep up the great work Allen! Best Regards, John Corbett J&D Marketing "I have been marketing online for a while now and I have more than tripled my former income working at my job (I have been fulltime in internet marketing for about 6 months now) and I only work around 15 to 20 hours a week. During my time in this business I have been in contact with most of the major marketers online and I recommend Allen Says as the most honest and helpful individual I have dealt with in this business. His Marketing package is the best value on theinternet. Anyone who is thinking about doing any type of business on the web needs to be a member of the Internet Marketing Warriors." Thank You, Terry Dean Thanks for your kindness, and you can quote me on this: a veritable treasure-trove of money making ideas, the package has saved me hundreds of hours of research time. It is well worth joining! Regards, Haider Aziz Allen - This is the best $25 I ever spent. Thanks for the honesty & quality web site. - Steve Traino Allen Joining the Internet Marketing Warrior family has been very rewarding to me. Prior to becoming a member, I wasted so much time on the net unsuccessfully finding the kind of information & internet marketing techniques that are available to me now as a Warrior member. In addition to all the money making information on the private site, what amazes me the most is the great contribution of information & help provided to everyone by top gun professional fellow Warrior members on the forum. I recommend this site to anyone serious about making money on the net. Best of Success, Alan Alvarez President South Pointe Financial Corp. .."Started reading your report last night and..COULDN'T PUT IT DOWN! I got so caught up in it I didn't eat supper. It's jam-packed with over a dozen tried and true MONEY MAKING techniques! I also like the fact that you really care about your clients and are willing to talk and answer questions..refreshing in the vast world of cyberspace! If you Email Allen, he gets back with ya!" Sid Menough Florida ------- Join Us Today! *** Only $24.95 For A Limited Time!! LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP! Full One Year Money-Back Guarantee! Order Now! The Complete Internet Marketing Warrior Package Is Availiable For Immediate Download At The Warrior's Private Site! Fast 24 Hour Ordering by Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534 You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day... Sometimes Within Minutes! --------------------------------- Warrior's Membership Order Form --------------------------------- []YES! Sign Me Up For Lifetime Access And Membership To The Warriors Private Site For Only $24.95 []I am paying by []Credit Card []Check []Money Order. (Please Make Payable To: Allen Says) Name:______________________________________ Address:___________________________________ City:______________________________________ State:_________________Zip:________________ Your Email Address:________________________ Dealer Code#: 604 -------------------------- Visa\Mastercard Order Form -------------------------- Name On Card:______________________________ Credit Card#_______________________________ Exp. Date:_________________________________ (Charge Will Appear As "Info-World") Voice-Mail Order Line: 1-903-832-6067 NOTE: This is a line for leaving your credit card order on our voice-mail system. Because my dealers bulk email and a lot of people hate it, we don't answer this phone "live" anymore.(no person could answer my phone and stay sane for very long :-) However, it is very safe to leave your Full Name, Credit Card #, The Expiration Date, Your Email Address and The Dealer Code#: 604 and I Will Get Back To You The Same Day With Your Access To The Site!! Speak Slowly and Take As Much Time As You Need! You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day!! Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534 (Fax your order 24 hours a day!) Order By Mail: Allen Says 1311 Old River Road Starks, La. 70661 ================================================= From 00000 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 10 22:55:28 1998 From: 00000 at hotmail.com (00000 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:55:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Make $100 everytime the phone rings!! Message-ID: <> ============================================== "Internet Marketing Warriors Secret Site!"(tm) Copyright 1997 by Allen Says ============================================== " I Never Made A Dime On The Internet " ..UNTIL.. I GOT MAD AS HELL !! "After That, I've Made Money Every Day Since And I'll Show You Exactly How To Get Started Doing What I Did!" The Start of the Warriors!! One night, after a long period of NO responses to all my ads, I compeletly flipped out! The months of hard work with out any rewards had reached a boiling point and I decided to try direct e-mail marketing! I grabbed a pen and wrote the words... THE INTERNET MARKETING WARRIORS! I contacted a few select people who wanted to be dealers for my site and overnight we started taking in 10, 20, 30 and more orders a day! I had found the Power of Direct E-mail!! Why am I telling you this? Because the market is unlimited AND I can guarantee you if you will allow me to show you just a couple secrets about who is "really" making money on the net, that I can also get YOU to making money every day...starting immediately!! Join the Warriors today. And if I'm wrong, you have up to a full year to get the small membership fee back. No risk, no questions asked! As a member of the Warriors Secret Site and Forum you'll learn... # How To Create Direct Response Web Sites that Make People Buy - BEFORE They Leave! # How to Manipulate Search Engines and Get Hundreds of Hits a Day in Less than a Week! POWERFUL!!!!! (one of the BEST kept secrets) # How to Begin Selling Hot Information People Want the 'Same Day' You Get My Report! I'll show you where to get all the books you want - Hundreds of them! # Fax-on-Demand Profits are Incredible - How to Turn Other Peoples Fax Machines Into Your Own Personal Printers and Create Huge, Constant Profits! # Secrets of Bulk E-Mail! Yes, it does work - BIG TIME! But, there's ways to do it and never have a problem. Never lose your Internet Service and Still Make Big Money Every Day! # How to Make $1,000's Every Week With Low Cost Classified's In Weekly Newspapers Across The United States! Hidden sources let you get started Now! # How to collect all the e-mail addresses you want from the Internet - For Free! Even have them delivered to your e-mail address for nothing! # How to create a steady stream of buyers from 1000's of newsgroups! # Exactly how to turn 1000's of prospects into Buyers and Die-Hard, Loyal Customers For Life! It's so EASY! (you'll LOVE this one) # Seduce the Mind and Activate the Emotions of Your Prospects So They Buy NOW! Killer Strategies Used By The Masters of Direct Response! # Powerful Secrets to Multiply Yourself Over the Web and Lead 1000's of People to Your Site Every Day! If You Can't Make Money With This You Might Be In Trouble! ...It's NOT MLM! And that's just what's in the Special Report!! Check out the Software, E-mail Addresses, Special Reports and Books-on-Disk I have collected over the last 3 years that are also Inside the Warrior's Secret Site! # Over 500,000 Email addresses You Can Download Right Now! Thousands more being added every week!! # 5 Different Email Address Extractors!...one extracts addresses at 60,000 per hour! # Free Web-Based Bulk E-Mailer - Awesome! Mail Your Message At Rates Up to 250,000 An Hour!! # How to use a Free Email Address Stripper on the secret site to go onto aol and collect 1000's of 'targeted' email addresses from the forums, message boards and member directory!! Every day...FREE!!! # A Copy of The Special Report: How To Make At Least Make $1,600 a Week Online..Starting Now! # Learn the Secrets of BulkMail - How to Setup a Free Email Extracting and Mailing System Using Freely Available Programs!! # 38 of the 'Hottest' Marketing Reports Ever Written!! # 6 "Must Have" Books On Disk (the "forbidden" secrets and strategies of getting 1000's of customers from the net!) # Lifetime Subscription to the "Internet Marketing Warriors Letter!"...Every New Issue Posted To The Secret Site.... You Will Also Have Lifetime Access To The Warrior Forum Where You Will Find Your Every Question Answered And Put Your Business Light Years Ahead Of The Competition!! "Inside The Warrior Forum" # How To Accept Credit Cards For Your Business..NOW! You DO NOT need a merchant account. Find THE Sources That Will Get You Going Today!! # Meta Tags - How to get top listings in search engines! # In depth talks on getting around AOL blocking!! Warriors get through when no one else can!! # In depth reviews of all major bulk mailing & extracting software - Netcontact, Floodgate, Stealth (all versions), E-Mail Magnet, Extractor Pro and more - Find out the truth BEFORE you buy!(Honest Reviews - Not by sellers - but by actual buyers & users!) # Access to one of our members bulk emailing support site... tons of free features, value and help!! # Members who will submit your site to hundreds of search engines for free...just because you are a Warrior!! # Discover the secrets and power of CGI/PERL in bulk mailing!! # More Secrets about Autoresponders!! # Killer Headlines & Sales Advice!! # How to print your own money....legally!! # Tricks to cut down on flames!! One dealer is making a ton of money using this trick and gets very few flames!! # Softsell vs. Hardsell....Which works best? # Make Every Ad of Yours a Success!! # Bulk Email Myth #1.... # Part 1: Copywriting Secrets! Part 2: Copywriting Secrets! # Avoid this disaster when bulk mailing!! # Sources for the latest bulk email accounts!! # Some members are forming bulk e-mail co-ops and partner groups right now!! Need to hear from other Warriors? Allen, This is absolutely unbelievable. Within two days I have already made in excess of $200.00 and it only took about 2 hours to do every thing. The marketing reports that you supply are absolutely outstanding!! I have to say....my hat goes off to you. I am glad that there is someone out there who will give your moneys worth and a whole lot more!! Thanks a Million, J.R. (Florida) Hi Allen, Just a quick thank you note for creating the Warrior site. After a full two years of banging my head against the monitor screen, trying to make money on the internet, I finally have learned the secrets that I needed to make it all happen. Sponsoring people into my MLM program has never been easier and I don't worry anymore about losing my internet connection for sending bulk e-mail. The contacts I have made in the forum have turned into pure gold and will continue to further educate me in the proper methods of internet marketing. Keep up the great work Allen! Best Regards, John Corbett J&D Marketing "I have been marketing online for a while now and I have more than tripled my former income working at my job (I have been fulltime in internet marketing for about 6 months now) and I only work around 15 to 20 hours a week. During my time in this business I have been in contact with most of the major marketers online and I recommend Allen Says as the most honest and helpful individual I have dealt with in this business. His Marketing package is the best value on theinternet. Anyone who is thinking about doing any type of business on the web needs to be a member of the Internet Marketing Warriors." Thank You, Terry Dean Thanks for your kindness, and you can quote me on this: a veritable treasure-trove of money making ideas, the package has saved me hundreds of hours of research time. It is well worth joining! Regards, Haider Aziz Allen - This is the best $25 I ever spent. Thanks for the honesty & quality web site. - Steve Traino Allen Joining the Internet Marketing Warrior family has been very rewarding to me. Prior to becoming a member, I wasted so much time on the net unsuccessfully finding the kind of information & internet marketing techniques that are available to me now as a Warrior member. In addition to all the money making information on the private site, what amazes me the most is the great contribution of information & help provided to everyone by top gun professional fellow Warrior members on the forum. I recommend this site to anyone serious about making money on the net. Best of Success, Alan Alvarez President South Pointe Financial Corp. .."Started reading your report last night and..COULDN'T PUT IT DOWN! I got so caught up in it I didn't eat supper. It's jam-packed with over a dozen tried and true MONEY MAKING techniques! I also like the fact that you really care about your clients and are willing to talk and answer questions..refreshing in the vast world of cyberspace! If you Email Allen, he gets back with ya!" Sid Menough Florida ------- Join Us Today! *** Only $24.95 For A Limited Time!! LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP! Full One Year Money-Back Guarantee! Order Now! The Complete Internet Marketing Warrior Package Is Availiable For Immediate Download At The Warrior's Private Site! Fast 24 Hour Ordering by Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534 You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day... Sometimes Within Minutes! --------------------------------- Warrior's Membership Order Form --------------------------------- []YES! Sign Me Up For Lifetime Access And Membership To The Warriors Private Site For Only $24.95 []I am paying by []Credit Card []Check []Money Order. (Please Make Payable To: Allen Says) Name:______________________________________ Address:___________________________________ City:______________________________________ State:_________________Zip:________________ Your Email Address:________________________ Dealer Code#: 604 -------------------------- Visa\Mastercard Order Form -------------------------- Name On Card:______________________________ Credit Card#_______________________________ Exp. Date:_________________________________ (Charge Will Appear As "Info-World") Voice-Mail Order Line: 1-903-832-6067 NOTE: This is a line for leaving your credit card order on our voice-mail system. Because my dealers bulk email and a lot of people hate it, we don't answer this phone "live" anymore.(no person could answer my phone and stay sane for very long :-) However, it is very safe to leave your Full Name, Credit Card #, The Expiration Date, Your Email Address and The Dealer Code#: 604 and I Will Get Back To You The Same Day With Your Access To The Site!! Speak Slowly and Take As Much Time As You Need! You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day!! Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534 (Fax your order 24 hours a day!) Order By Mail: Allen Says 1311 Old River Road Starks, La. 70661 ================================================= From pkmrght487 at aol.com Sat Jan 10 22:56:56 1998 From: pkmrght487 at aol.com (pkmrght487 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:56:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: PRODIGIOUS NFL PICKS Message-ID: <>

     Hello SPORTSFANS!!!!  If you are an avid sportsfan like myself, then I 
know you will enjoy this ad.  Who are we?  We are Prodigious Picks and
Associates.  What are we?  We are one of the BEST sports handicapping
systems in the country.  Our predictions are decided  by a consensus 
analysis system that takes the predictions of SEVEN OF THE BEST
HANDICAPPERS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!  If you are one of the thousands 
of callers that has phoned us in the past weeks, we know that we have 
already proven ourselves to YOU.  If you have not had a chance to give 
us a call yet, we want to inform you that we went 19-6 by the line in the past
two weeks.  That is 76 PERCENT!!!  This includes winning 10 of 12 BIG PICKS
and going 6-2 in the NFL playoffs.  For this reason, we feel extremely confident
that we have the two winning picks for Sunday's championship games that
features DENVER at PITTSBURGH and GREEN BAY at SAN FRANCISCO. 
We are so sure of our predictions that we are calling them the TWO BIGGEST
PICKS OF THE YEAR!!!  Don't lose your money trying to pick the games 
yourself or by even calling some other handicapper whose price per call is 
much more expensive than ours.  Let us do the work and you get the MONEY!  
So give us a call after Friday and WE WILL DELIVER!!!!!!!!  

                                                   1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you WIN 1000s on Sunday, give us a call on Monday for our
         winning basketball picks.  We will also have the winning SUPER
         BOWL PICK after January 22.
		       

                                         

 









From pkmrght487 at aol.com  Sat Jan 10 22:56:56 1998
From: pkmrght487 at aol.com (pkmrght487 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:56:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PRODIGIOUS NFL PICKS
Message-ID: <>



     Hello SPORTSFANS!!!!  If you are an avid sportsfan like myself, then I 
know you will enjoy this ad.  Who are we?  We are Prodigious Picks and
Associates.  What are we?  We are one of the BEST sports handicapping
systems in the country.  Our predictions are decided  by a consensus 
analysis system that takes the predictions of SEVEN OF THE BEST
HANDICAPPERS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!  If you are one of the thousands 
of callers that has phoned us in the past weeks, we know that we have 
already proven ourselves to YOU.  If you have not had a chance to give 
us a call yet, we want to inform you that we went 19-6 by the line in the past
two weeks.  That is 76 PERCENT!!!  This includes winning 10 of 12 BIG PICKS
and going 6-2 in the NFL playoffs.  For this reason, we feel extremely confident
that we have the two winning picks for Sunday's championship games that
features DENVER at PITTSBURGH and GREEN BAY at SAN FRANCISCO. 
We are so sure of our predictions that we are calling them the TWO BIGGEST
PICKS OF THE YEAR!!!  Don't lose your money trying to pick the games 
yourself or by even calling some other handicapper whose price per call is 
much more expensive than ours.  Let us do the work and you get the MONEY!  
So give us a call after Friday and WE WILL DELIVER!!!!!!!!  

                                                   1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you WIN 1000s on Sunday, give us a call on Monday for our
         winning basketball picks.  We will also have the winning SUPER
         BOWL PICK after January 22.
		       

                                         

 









From anonymous304 at juno.com  Sat Jan 10 07:13:13 1998
From: anonymous304 at juno.com (Anony J Man)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:13:13 +0800
Subject: REMOVE
Message-ID: <19980110.100047.3422.1.anonymous304@juno.com>




On 9 Jan 1998 22:41:02 GMT m2cresumes at earthlink.net writes:
>NOT a job site, NOT a search engine, NOT a career board, NOT a 
>newsgroup
>AND we do NOT limit you to a single database!
>
>U S Resume is a true technological leap.  It allows subscribers access 
>the OVER 1 MILLION resumes on the ENTIRE INTERNET (source:  Electronic 
>Recruiting Index, Dec. 1996).  It finds your candidates and also 
>downloads their resumes to your hard drive all automatically, so you 
>can browse them later with NO Internet wait time.  You gain access to 
>the same "virtual robotics" technology used by our Fortune 500 
>clients, enabling you to spend less time looking for qualified 
>candidates and more time placing them.
>
>Prices start as low as $295 per month, no more than an ordinary job 
>board and less than just one typical help wanted display ad.
>
>Why not have the ENTIRE INTERNET as your own PERSONAL DATABASE?
>
>For additional information please visit us at http://www.usresume.com
>
>If the site doesn't answer all your questions, please don't hesitate 
>to call Dave Weltman or Jeff Eisenberg at 914-627-2600.
>
>Thanks!
>
>P.S If you would like to be added to our DO NOT EMAIL LIST, please 
>reply to this message with the word REMOVE in the Subject of your 
>reply.  When our Robot finds the word REMOVE in the Subject of any 
>message, it will automatically add the senders email address to our DO 
>NOT EMAIL LIST.
>
>
>






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 07:48:46 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:48:46 +0800
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199801100900.KAA11892@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 



Anonymous  writes:

> >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers
> > writes:
> >>On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote:
> >>
> >>I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.
> >
> >I think so too what's his email address?????
> >
> >
> >
> >Anonymous304
>
> Uh, you subscribe to the list but you can't find Vulis' address? Just how
> stupid are you?

Guy Polis is indeed very stupid.  His former colleagues at J.P.Morgan
and Salomon bros, where he used to be a consultant, remember him as
a very stupid guy.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Sat Jan 10 07:51:37 1998
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:51:37 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Paul Bradley wrote:

[...]

> > My rights to swing my fists end at your noise.  When ever you interact
> > with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights.  Even Adam
> > Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of
> > the market.
> 
> Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is 
> composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me,

Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist?  

> the NAP and rights of 
> association should clearly define the answer to this question, no 
> agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people 
> based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever. 

Ok a for instence,  if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you
unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1].  Such situations
have occured in the past, would you support them.

To me a person with that amount of power is uneceptable.

> > Also recall the free market model assumes that the word is full of totaly
> > rational pepeale who have full knowige of the market.  Any one who has
> > been on this list knows that these peaple are somewhat uncommen.
> 
> I don`t see the model that way at all,

I'm sorry but it is one of the fundermenalts of economic thory.

[...]

> the model is ethically right in that it allows businesses 
> and individuals to behave as they please as long as it harms no other 
> person,

So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour
of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a
form of harm.

> sure, firing you may harm you by decreasing your income but this 
> is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to offer 
> you, or keep you, in employment.

Immagion there is a truck rolling out of conrol in your direction,
keeping silent may harm you by preventing you from jumping out of the way,
but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to
warn you.

[1] Not that I am thay way enclined.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

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From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Sat Jan 10 08:02:12 1998
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:02:12 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Mark Rogaski  writes:
> 
> > An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote:
[...]
> > : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced...
> > :
> >
> > Actually, natural selection in action ...
> 
> Same thing...

There is a diffrence.  It is only evoltion if there is a combernation of
natural verence and natural selection.  If you have a population of
unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion
or improvement.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

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From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Sun Jan 11 00:22:08 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:22:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980111081520.24717.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Jan 10 08:45:19 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:45:19 +0800
Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [4/4]
Message-ID: <199801101641.RAA00151@basement.replay.com>



	Part 4 "Fighting the Next War" [4/4]

				[4/4]
Next, cyberlaundering?

If there is one thing that money launderers hate it is cash; physical cash,
that is [No, we hate criminal governments who refuse to issue larger 
denomination notes]. Shipping huge wads of banknotes is a logistical 
nightmare [which would be less onerous if, by way of example, the US 
guVermin recirculated $500, $1000, $5000 and $10,000 FRNs. The printing 
plates for such "money-laundering friendly" notes having been de-activated 
since the reign of dictator Roosevelt; refusal to issue higher denomination 
FRNs to keep pace with Accumulated Wealth Tax extractions (commonly referred
to as "inflation") since the 1930s is nothing less than slow-motion, 
backdoor currency recall]. It also raises the risk that couriers will be 
intercepted [they mean robbed] and the ["]loot["] traced back to its source.
Transferring money electronically is both quicker and easier [but not 
necessarily safer in certain nations]. [*]Hence concerns in law-enforcement 
circles that new forms of electronic money could render obsolete traditional
methods of tracking ["]tainted["] money, which rely heavily on the poLicing
of bank transactions[*]. 

["Hence concerns in law-evasion circles that new forms of vooter sanity 
threatening to outlaw drug Prohibition could render obsolete traditional 
streams of tax-free income."]

["Hence concerns in law-enforcement circles that new forms of vooter sanity 
threatening to outlaw drug Prohibition could render obsolete traditional 
pretexts for increased budgets, privacy deprivation and sheeple tracking."]

Electronic-money systems come in three different forms. There are 
stored-value cards, which allow customers to load money onto a 
microchip-bearing piece of plastic. This can then be carried around like a 
credit card. There are computer-based systems, for example, those involving
payments over the Internet. and there is talk of hybrid systems, which allow
smart cards and network-based payments to work together.

Although these new gizmos are still under development, financial regulators
and policemen have been studying them intently. And they have raised several
questions to which they want answers. One is whether limits will be placed
on value that can be held on chip-bearing cards. A card without a limit
"could break my back", [then there would be no need for a tree] worries 
Stanley Morris, [the anti-christ, ] who heads FINCEN, the American 
government's financial-intelligence unit [FiU]. He thinks launderers could 
use it to shift millions of dollars on a piece of plastic.

The anti-laundering brigade [brigands?!] also wants reassurance that crooks
will not be able to set themselves up as e-money issuers. [I guess as 
opposed to the crooks who set themselves up as fiat banknote issuers] And 
they want to know whether all transactions in whatever system will be logged
at a central point, so that investigators can reconstruct an [unencrypted??]
electronic audit trail ["]if necessary["]. [B.S., they don't "want 
reassurance" or "want to know" squat, this is their non-negotiable DEMAND; 
they will try to rob, kidnap, jail, and murder anyone who thinks different] 
At least one card-based system currently being developed by Mondex, a 
company owned by Master-Card, [MassaCard] is designed to allow money to be
transferred directly between cards, without leaving such a trail. DigiCash,
which is developing a computer-based payment system, is using what it calls
a "one-way privacy" method, which allows payers to check who received money
from them, but does not allow the recipients to find out where it came from.
[as in a postal money order (but sans the silly $700 per m.o. limit and the
ridiculous $2999.99 daily limit) sent to a payee anonymously]

While these and other issues, such as who will have jurisdiction over
laundering on the Internet, [I smell a brand new Global Bureaucracy in the 
air] suggest the new systems could cause the authorities a few headaches,
some experts beg to differ. A report published last year by the Bank for
International Settlements, [another report cited, another worthle$$ 
bureaucracy, amazing isn't it?] the central bankers' central bank, [in other
words, a den of iniquity] noted that in most cases, measures designed to
protect the new systems against fraud--such as attaching unique electronic
serial numbers to transactions--would make them less attractive for criminal
activities than many existing payment systems. At the moment, all financial
regulators can do is watch and wait.

> E-Communist
> 25 St James's Street
> London SW1A 1HG
> www.economist.com

[Remember if you do your banking in a socialist country, there are three
parties involved in any transaction:
	1) you, the presumed criminal.
	2) the (non-)bank employee, snitch/narc/mind-reader.
	3) the guVermin employee, looter/thief/spy.]

Fly Low


S'n'S

Pro: Money Laundering, Self-Medication, Militia-Grade Arms, Realism
Pro: Indirect Taxation, Adults, Individual Irrevocable Rights
} 	Smurf N Sniff		Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra	   |
} 	P.O. Bunker 6669	"We don't want to be like those paranoid   |
} 	Hohoe, Ghana		Americans, this is a social DemoBracy."    |
} 	fn-fal at edict.gov.un	+233 55 1234	boycott GovernMedia NLC    |
Anti: feral guVermin, Vooters, rapacious tyrants, nihilists
Anti: biometric herd management, "(The)" children, state granted privileges







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Jan 10 08:45:24 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:45:24 +0800
Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [3/4]
Message-ID: <199801101640.RAA00139@basement.replay.com>



	Part 3 "Our Enemy: the Journalist" [3/4]

				[3/4]
Whitewash	[The Predictable Agenda Revealed]
All these developments suggest that the world's existing ["]defences["]
against ["]dirty["] money are ["]inadequate["]. [And we all know what their
definition of "adequate" would be.] [*]Banking secrecy is a serious 
problem[*]. As the table shows, bankers in a number of "high-priority"
centres can still be prosecuted [heaven forbid!] if they hand over
confidential information to officials investigating laundering cases.

[So, absent probable cause that a _real_ crime has been committed, 
"officials" must be allowed to engage in fishing expeditions without
repercussion.
Therefore, we must give these "officials" carte blanche access to:
   1) private (actually public) bank data.
   2) safe deposit boxes (send a spare key to FATF when you rent a box).
   3) private records (unrecoverable encryption made a felony).
   4) physical warrantless searches of "suspected currency smugglers"
	(on the spot or no-knock).
Carte Blanche access is the ultimate goal.
All done "confidentially" you understand. I won't tell the victim if you 
don't. And people would wonder why I don't have a domestic bank account.]

It also shows that several of these centres have yet to extend their
anti-laundering regimes to cover non-bank financial institutions. [the 
operative word being _yet_.] No wonder some financial poLiceman claim they
are being asked to fight laundrymen with one hand tied behind their backs. 
[a straightjacket and possibly rope + oak tree would be appropriate ]

As if that were not bad [good] enough, the current approach to tackling the
[non-]problem of onshore and offshore laundering havens is flawed, too. The
FATF has done some useful work, [like what exactly?] but it has not been
tough enough with slowcoaches. It only censured Turkey several years after
it became a member. [Turkey should tell this ATF to go take a flying leap]
And it has yet to take action against Austria, another member, which still
has anonymous savings accounts [which due to their membership in the 
reconstituted Holy Roman Empire they will eventually sell out or at best
phase out with grandfather clauses] for its citizens [and many non-citizens 
as well, leave our Sparbuchen alone thank you very much] despite an FATF
[*]edict[*] banning anonymity.

[A most curious use of language: "despite an edict banning anonymity". And 
just who is it that supposedly granted FATF the authority to issue _edicts_
(as in dictate, force, coerce) or _ban_ a single goddamn thing?! 

Apparently a collective "hive" of enthroned, unaccountable, power-usurping 
bureaucrats are justifying their existence by rendering decisions "for" the
little people and sees itself fit to spew forth proclamations unbeknownst to
many under imaginary authority it has granted unto itself. How very regal of
them.

Is said edict (banning anon accounts) an example of the "useful work" this 
_anonymous_ journalist refers to? The irony is delicious. Does this 
represent the type of government-by-edict rule that he/she/it finds so 
agreeable? Perhaps she-he-it spends too much time attending WTO meetings and
schmoozing with those-who-know-better to discuss the latest nuances of
negotiated edict proclamations. 

You (anonymous, E-Communist writer) need to get out more, buckwheat.
How about putting this edict thingy up for a vote of the Austrian people?
An antiquated idea I realize but it would give you and your associates an
opportunity to further propagandize the great unwashed to the cause of
Total State Control.

OTOH, then these aspiring fiscal tyrants would have to crawl out of their
committee meetings and explain to the rabble why it is so urgent that 
private banking be abolished (confidentially, of course).

Besides which, owners of anonymous accounts like them just the way they are
and would find another way to keep their property out of your greedy little
paws regardless (even if you did somehow manage to convince 50.0001% of the
vooters to help you fight non-crime. "We" don't have to show you no 
steeenkin' passport).]

Some anti-laundering campaigners say that criticism of members in evaluation
reports is often watered down for diplomatic reasons [how can an evaluation
be watered down when it starts with zero substance?]. "Every report was put
through so many whitewashes", complains Sue Thornhill, [parasite, ] a 
consultant on laundering to the British Bankers Association. The FATF's fans
[such as they are outside the GovernMedia sphere of influence] admit that 
some plea-bargaining goes on, but insist that it does not let countries off 
lightly. 
[What is this utter nonsense: 
	"plea-bargaining" (?)
	"does not let countries off lightly" (?)
Are representatives of "guilty" nations hauled off to some FATF Star Chamber
and forced to perform lewd acts with smart cards?!?]

Whatever the truth, [the truth being that money laundering is not a crime;
acknowledgment of which would run counter to your basic philosophical 
premise and thus be dismissed as extremist libertarian kookery] there is an
even bigger problem with the task force's approach [the problem is the 
existence of FATF and other agencies of its ilk]. Every time it persuades 
a financial centre [against it's best interests] to crack down on 
laundering, crooks will move to new ones [as would any normal person who
places a value on customer service]. As the amount of money that comes with
them grows, so the incentive for these other havens to change their ways 
will dimish. [until they become fat and happy like Helvetia, then they begin
to evidence a strange desire to look 'respectable' in front of the 'world 
community' and now readily strap on the knee-pads for their pimp: the United
States] The FATF seems to be hoping that peer-group pressure is the 
solution. [Oh yeah? Just because your friends have abolished (de facto) bank
secrecy and have ceased jailing informants and foreign moles does that mean
you're going to do it as well? What would your mother say about that?] It 
has set up a regional Caribbean task [tax] force and is ["]supporting["] the
creation of an Asia-Pacific anti-laundering group. [picture an enterprising
cretin at FATF calling some string-puller over at the IMF: 'Tell them to 
give us all the access we want to foreign account holder data or else no 
more taxpayer coerced bailout for you Asians'...] But even if this attempt 
to sign up new members works, such an approach will take a long time. And 
there is a danger that many members will sign up to get the FATF's badge of 
respectability [and the cushy do-nothing jobs that go along with it for 
political hacks and career bureaucrats], and then drag their feet over 
implementing its recommendations. [confusing, are they _edicts_ or 
_recommendations_ ?]

So are economic sanctions against refuseniks the answer? The sort of
"economic warfare" envisaged by Senator Kerry is not. Banning 
citizen[-hostage]s of a few rich countries from dealing with known
laundromats would hurt legitimate businesses, while crafty launderers would
find ways round the restrictions. 
[Senator Kerry, (Looter-Taxachusetts): "Yeah right, that's a wimpy 
apologetic journalist pretending to present both sides of an issue, let's 
get real here, no _legitimate_ business would need to have an Aruban
bank account when our local S&L offers backup withholding, full disclosure 
on request to any and all government employees, demands for SSN's and 
fingerprints, deposit insurance and CTRs, in short all the protection and 
benefits the surveillance state has to offer. So those who have the mistaken
notion that all assets DO NOT belong to the state and DO NOT submit to the 
fact that those assets they are trying to keep from our grasp belong TO US 
and are only on temporary loan to individual shee, um, people need to be set
straight and made an example of. I say we must pull another Panama and 
invade these small narco-terrorist haven countries and shut all their banks
down permanently. If citizens of these pathetic excuses for states want a 
bank account, our good Bwoston banks are more than happy to serve them."]
That leaves Mr Tanzi's proposed strategy as the only current proposal with 
something to recommend it. Of course, getting an international agreement on
minimum anti-laundering standards will not be an easy task. But it is worth
a try. For without a concerted global response [= global surveillance of 
every transaction = dictatorial global bureaucracies] to the problem of 
["]dirty["] money, the world's money-laundering machine will be off on yet 
another devastating [to whom?] cycle.

[Summary:
Banking secrecy is a serious problem.
Unreported asset possession is a serious problem.
Non-governmental ComSec is a serious problem.
Non-intelligence-agency laundering is a serious problem.
Anonymous ownership transfers are a serious problem.
Unreported cash transactions are a serious problem.
Cash is a serious problem.
Teenage fucking is a serious problem.
Non-alcohol, non-prescription drug consumption is a serious problem.
Contraband smuggling is a serious problem.
The emerging e-cash threat is a serious problem.
Anonymous accounts are a serious problem.
Bearer shares are a serious problem.
Multiple identities are a serious problem.
Unregistered gun ownership is a serious problem.
Inadequate government staffing is a serious problem.
Inadequate international cooperation is a serious problem.
Inadequate tax revenue is a serious problem.
Freedom is a serious problem.
Unacceptable. These activities will be stopped. You will be assimilated.

These FATF swine need a good ass-kicking.]

> E-Communist
> 25 St James's Street
> London SW1A 1HG
> www.economist.com


Fly Low


S'n'S

Pro:__Money Laundering__Self Medication__Militia Grade Arms__Realism________
__Indirect Taxation___________Adults___________Individual Irrevocable Right$
} 	Smurf N Sniff		Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra	   |
} 	P.O. Bunker 6669	"We don't want to be like those paranoid   |
} 	Hohoe, Ghana		Americans, this is a social DemoBracy."    |
} 	fn-fal at edict.gov.un	+233 55 1234	boycott GovernMedia NLC    |
ANTI:_feral guVermin____Vooters__________blue hellmutts______nihilists______
__biometric herd management__"(The) children"__state granted privilege_____!---------------------------------------------------------------------------







From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 09:07:28 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:07:28 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}  writes:

> On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>
> > Mark Rogaski  writes:
> >
> > > An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote:
> [...]
> > > : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced
> > > :
> > >
> > > Actually, natural selection in action ...
> >
> > Same thing...
>
> There is a diffrence.  It is only evoltion if there is a combernation of
> natural verence and natural selection.  If you have a population of
> unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion
> or improvement.

In case of homo sapiens, it is the same thing.  Assholes like the Kennedys
kill themselves though drugs and reckless skiing before they have a chance
to breed (or breed more). One of the reasons why all drugs should be legal
is that people who should not breed will use the drugs to kill themselves,
leaving more room/wealth/resources for their genetic superiors.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 09:08:10 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:08:10 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4qm4ie46w165w@bwalk.dm.com>



? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}  writes:
> > Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is
> > composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me,
>
> Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist?

You can't realy be one without the other. You can't be a little bit statist.
You can't be a little bit pregnant.

> > the NAP and rights of
> > association should clearly define the answer to this question, no
> > agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people
> > based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever.
>
> Ok a for instence,  if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you
> unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1].  Such situations
> have occured in the past, would you support them.

If the sole owner of a business has a female secretary brought into his
office, pulls down his pants, and orders her to kiss his dick; and fires her
for refusing; then he's engaging in behavior that's been viewed for centuries
as one of the occupational hazards for working women and nothing out of the
ordinary. Of course if the "sexual harasser" happens to be governor bill
clinton, then he can do no wrong; if the boss himself works for a corporation
thrn we have an agency problem: she can complain to his boss, or the board of
directors, or the shareholders, that he's harming the business by firing a
valuable employee over his own sexual problems. If the secretary sues him in
the US, she might win some money, turn most of it over to her lawyers, and
never find another job; etc. Wouldn't it be easier to say that if you don't
like your present job for any reason (including your boss making amorous
advances, or too little pay, or the color of the paint on the walls of your
office), you should look for another one?

> To me a person with that amount of power is uneceptable.

You'd rather give his power to the employee or to the state? Don't forget
that this power is balanced by the employee's right to get up and leave.

Would you have preferred the model popular in the medieval europe, where
the boss was forced to care for the worker (peasant) if he got too old/sick to
work, but the worker/peasant couldn't get up and leave just because he felt
like it?  Apparently that involved the boss's right to fuck the peasant and
his family any time he pleased (ever heard of droit de segnor?)

> > the model is ethically right in that it allows businesses
> > and individuals to behave as they please as long as it harms no other
> > person,
>
> So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour
> of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a
> form of harm.

Given the choice, some people indeed would rathe starve to death than work.
However all modern societies provide some sort of marxist safety net: those
who are too sick/old to work, or can't find work, or perhaps unilling to work
are given some of the wealth taken away by the state from those who have it
(mostly from those who do work).  This redistribution of wealth is another
contraversial issue, but it has very little connection to the question of
an employer's right to discrminate on criteria other than bona fide
occpuational qualifications.

Indeed, if all the employers in the world conspired not to hire redheads,
they still wouldn't starve; they'd get welfare (dole, whatever it's called
in ozland), and the more enterprising ones would start businesses of their
own and hire their fellow redheads. As US blacks once did that and were
in much better shape than they are now.

> Immagion there is a truck rolling out of conrol in your direction,
> keeping silent may harm you by preventing you from jumping out of the way,
> but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to
> warn you.

The inaction that you've described is highly unethical, but hardly illegal.
Likewise racial discrimination is very unthical, and I'd generally try not to
deal with anyone who practices it, but it shouldn't be illegal.

> [1] Not that I am thay way enclined.

We know, you prefer kangaroos.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From sheriff at speakeasy.org  Sat Jan 10 10:00:14 1998
From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:00:14 +0800
Subject: Spam
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I've got a question for y'all.

Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that
I couldn't do anything about with what I have the 
knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up only
one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer.

I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out
more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does
in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so,
I'm not sure how to find that out.  If he doesn't, is
there anything I can do?


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use 
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNLenyABMw4+NR29ZAQHvrgf+NnvFR55ExZrzp2m/XDT5MisT2rem4Hct
/okK9HV/DkZJzCsklbqjOrJkEHg96txCPyQ+DKBWatP5ywoaw4O47Tn8udiuDNwI
7DGiFcbYtG5fFHKYzDxM3KWtXbIDn1bliFF80xSoYzYdJKqxCkYPtuaDjasr1EIG
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From websoft at websoftassoc.com  Sun Jan 11 02:28:50 1998
From: websoft at websoftassoc.com (WebSoft Associates)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:28:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Congratulations!
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980111020632.006e2f2c@websoftassoc.com>


Dear Sir or Ms:
 
We at WebSoft Associates (http://www.websoftassoc.com) would like to
congratulate you on your recent selection by Inc. Magazine as
one of the 500 fastest growing private companies in the United States.
 
Being a small private company like yourself, we understand the need for
innovative and technically advanced business solutions.  We believe that we
can offer these solutions at a fair price and at an unmatched professional
level.  If you are committed to having an Internet presence, we are
committed to making that presence be as affordable, practical, and
professional as possible.
 
We are currently increasing both our customer base and the services that we
provide, as we strive to one day be included
in the Inc. 500.  We would like you to consider contacting WebSoft for any
of your future Internet and business technology needs, and help us meet
that goal.
 
Once again congratulations, and thank you for your time and consideration.
We will not send further email to your account unless you contact us first.
 
Sincerely,
 
Brian L. Cheek
President
WebSoft Associates
E-mail:  Websoft at websoftassoc.com
Website:  http://www.websoftassoc.com





From jongalt at everest.pinn.net  Sat Jan 10 10:40:57 1998
From: jongalt at everest.pinn.net (Jon Galt)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:40:57 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On 23 Dec 1997, Colin Rafferty wrote:

> Oppression is done by a society.  It can only be stopped by acting
> against the individuals in the society that are doing the oppressing.

Well make up your mind!  Is it done "by a society" or by "individuals"???

______________________________________________________________________
Jon Galt
e-mail:  jongalt at pinn.net
website:  http://www.pinn.net/~jongalt/
PGP public key available on my website.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
______________________________________________________________________






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 10:44:17 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:44:17 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801101908.NAA14049@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:32:31 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jon Galt 
> Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
> 
> On 23 Dec 1997, Colin Rafferty wrote:
> 
> > Oppression is done by a society.  It can only be stopped by acting
> > against the individuals in the society that are doing the oppressing.
> 
> Well make up your mind!  Is it done "by a society" or by "individuals"???

Actualy it's both, societies, their beliefs and actions, are individuals
acting in concert. The relationship is identical to that of a tree in a 
forest.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan 10 11:15:06 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:15:06 +0800
Subject: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980110191251.0101e398@pop.pipeline.com>



John Cassidy writes in the January 12 New Yorker mag
of the controversial economic theory which undergirds DoJ's 
antitrust action against Microsoft.

He cites a seminal 1984 paper by Brian Arthur, "Competing
Technologies and Lock-in by Historical Small Events: The
Dynamics of Choice Under Increasing Returns."

After years of disparagement the theory seems to have
caught on, at least at Justice and with others who oppose the
theory of free market determination of winners and losers.
Arthur argues that market dominance by inferior products
is possible, and cites MS-DOS as an example.

Arthur is now a scientist at the Santa Fe Institute. He says
his theory "stands a great deal of economics on its head."
One critic said to Arthur, "If you are right, capitalism can't
work."

For those unable to get the magazine, we offer a copy of
Cassidy's essay:

   http://jya.com/arthur.htm (33K)

A side note: the same issue has a short piece noting that
the early charges of militant conspiracy behind the OKC
bombing have disappeared from the trials of McVeigh and
Nichols, and proposes that an apology is due militants, 
militia and other paranoiac targets.







From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 10 11:23:42 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:23:42 +0800
Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 6:17 AM -0800 1/10/98, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Paul Bradley wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> > My rights to swing my fists end at your noise.  When ever you interact
>> > with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights.  Even Adam
>> > Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of
>> > the market.
>>
>> Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is
>> composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me,
>
>Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist?

And how else could it be?


>> the NAP and rights of
>> association should clearly define the answer to this question, no
>> agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people
>> based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever.
>
>Ok a for instence,  if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you
>unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1].  Such situations
>have occured in the past, would you support them.

Employees and employers make agreements all the time. To wear funny
uniforms, to bark when the boss says bark, to write in certain languages,
and so on.

If an employee does not wish to do what an employer instructs, he or she
may leave.

Sounds fair to me.

(And most employers will value work output--profits--over lesser
considerations. So, even though a boss has every "right" to demand that
employees where dunce caps to work, for example, few will. Those who do
will lose their employees and go out of business. Sounds fair to me.)



>So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour
>of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a
>form of harm.

I "allow people to starve to death" each and every day because they are not
doing something I want. Think about it. Every time I elect not to send
money to starving Bengalis or Hutus or Ugabugus I am "allowing them to
starve," quite literally.

So?

If an employer chooses not to hire certain types of persons this is really
no different from my choosing not to marry certain types of persons (and I
can imagine I could save a woman from "starving" by simply flying to Bangla
Desh, finding a starving woman, marrying her, and then supporting her. So?).

These are well-covered issues in many books on libertarianism and freedom.

Freedom means freedom. That some people will not have as much food as they
would like to have in a free society is no reason to discard freedom.

More to the point, crypto anarchy means taking such decisions about whether
to discard freedom or not out of the hands of others.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Jan 10 11:41:52 1998
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:41:52 +0800
Subject: The name "Crypto Kong"
Message-ID: <199801101918.LAA06148@proxy4.ba.best.com>



    --
I have received some negative feedback about the name 
"Crypto Kong".

Two people have complained that it is unprofessional 
sounding. 

This is not necessarily grounds for alarm.  One reason the 
name irritates people is that it sticks in the mind like a 
bad song, which was of course an important reason for 
choosing it.   No one is likely to  say "Hey, I saw this plug 
for some digital signing tool, but I can't remember the
name."

On the other hand ...

What do you think?


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     dOmrVP48CpP0XXqoK97INGkIpJVWXfGzg3ZO/DO5
     40BWwXgdXOaD0gGym/BpRFmyDIg3eYHNBgULka9Ix
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 11:43:19 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:43:19 +0800
Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801102007.OAA14257@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:15:42 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships

> >Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist?
> 
> And how else could it be?

Easily. The acceptance of freedom of speech is not equivalent to the
acceptance to spend and earn money freely and without regulation.

Speech and money are *not* equivalent.

This is as specious as Vulis' argument that these positions are equivalent
to pregnancy in the logical realm, in short you are or aren't. The reality
is that few people, other than statists or extremists look at the world let
alone their personal beliefs in that simplistic fashion.

I believe in the unregulated exercise of speech, including the dissemination
and use of crypto technology. To do otherwise implies some sort of ownership
of the individual by the society doing the regulating. Clearly an incorrect
conclusion. The ability of those same groups to spend their money as they
see fit is not supportable by that same logic. Groups must have regulated
monetary systems or else they collapse because of the monopolization and
therefore loss of vitality of markets. To believe otherwise is to accept the
premise that these monopolies could somehow buy an individuals rights.
Clearly a result even a market anarchist can't accept.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 11:46:36 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:46:36 +0800
Subject: The name "Crypto Kong" (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801102011.OAA14307@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:18:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: The name "Crypto Kong"

> I have received some negative feedback about the name 
> "Crypto Kong".
> 
> Two people have complained that it is unprofessional 
> sounding. 

Two people? That's it?

> This is not necessarily grounds for alarm.  One reason the 
> name irritates people is that it sticks in the mind like a 
> bad song, which was of course an important reason for 
> choosing it.   No one is likely to  say "Hey, I saw this plug 
> for some digital signing tool, but I can't remember the
> name."

When I think of it I think of 'Donkey Kong'.

> What do you think?

Unless the loss would result in ten's of thousands of dollars of income
leave it. If it would effect a large sales market it under a more acceptable
name to the business community. Nothing unethical about selling the same
product under two different names...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 10 11:54:52 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:54:52 +0800
Subject: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980110191251.0101e398@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



At 11:12 AM -0800 1/10/98, John Young wrote:
>John Cassidy writes in the January 12 New Yorker mag
>of the controversial economic theory which undergirds DoJ's
>antitrust action against Microsoft.
>
>He cites a seminal 1984 paper by Brian Arthur, "Competing
>Technologies and Lock-in by Historical Small Events: The
>Dynamics of Choice Under Increasing Returns."

I've followed Brian Arthur's work for a decade or so, and find much in it
that seems quite accurate.

One of his main observations is that size _does_ matter, that larger
economic agents often tend to get larger. There are various plausible
reasons for this, but it does seem to match reality.

(I'm avoiding jumping to conclusions that Brian Arthur is anti-capitalist
or any such thing. Just discussing reality as it is.)

We see this in the "Intel-Cisco-Sun-Microsoft-Oracle" universe, where each
of these players has about an 80% or better market share in its respective
niche.

Now Brian Arthur doesn't claim that such dominant market shares will last
indefinitely--the dominant companies in 1900 are mostly no longer even in
existence in any recognizable form, and even the dominant companies in 1950
have mostly been completely replaced by "upstarts."

But size does matter, bringing economies of scale, the ability to set and
enforce standards, and the ability to withstand competitive onslaughts for
longer times (than smaller, less financially solid, companies).

>After years of disparagement the theory seems to have
>caught on, at least at Justice and with others who oppose the
>theory of free market determination of winners and losers.
>Arthur argues that market dominance by inferior products
>is possible, and cites MS-DOS as an example.

Sure, there are many, many "non-optimal" products. Much of society is
non-optimal, even in the infrastructure. Roads don't go where they
"should," the wrong kind of electrical sockets were adopted, and so on, for
examples I don't need to spend time listing.

A way of viewing this is of _inertia_ or _sticking friction_. Once certain
standars have been set, it is just not possible to roll back history and
proceed down another path.

For example, it might well be that the world would have been better off
using the Motorola 68000 family in places where the Intel x86 dominated
(for possibly accidental, local reasons, as anyone who has read the history
of IBM's adoption of the x86 knows). And ditto for adoption of a better OS
than MS-DOS was (same accidental decision).

But we are not in that world, and the installed base of PCs and x86 systems
and MS-DOS or Windows systems is so large that it is simply impossible to
"jump tracks."

Now eventually things will change. Some new paradigm will come along.

There is no guarantee that in 2025 the dominant players today will still be
dominant.

Let's not forget that two years ago many were saying Microsoft would be
wiped out by the advent of "Web browsers as operating systems and office
suites," with Netscape Navigator being the Swiss army knife of programs.
Recall that analysts were sagely predicting that Bill Gates had "missed
out" on the Internet.

Now we have the spectacle of Netscape demanding that the government give it
back its dominant Web position! (Maybe then the University of Illinois can
get the DOJ to sue Netscape to take away Netscape's dominant position!)


>
>Arthur is now a scientist at the Santa Fe Institute. He says
>his theory "stands a great deal of economics on its head."
>One critic said to Arthur, "If you are right, capitalism can't
>work."

Which is nonsense. All Brian Arthur has done is to analyze some of the
"physics of markets" (my name).

Schumpeter said much the same thing when he talked about the "creative
destructionism" of capitalism.


--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From rfarmer at HiWAAY.net  Sat Jan 10 12:15:22 1998
From: rfarmer at HiWAAY.net (Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer])
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:15:22 +0800
Subject: Spam
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



> I've got a question for y'all.
> 
> Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that I couldn't do anything
> about with what I have the knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up
> only one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer. 

Well, if it's used only for spam, get it on some block lists.

> 
> I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out more about this
> individual -- I'm hoping that he does in fact buy his service from someone
> else, and if so, I'm not sure how to find that out. 

Well, it's pretty easy to harass or otherwise push someone off of the Net (I
guess that's why we've got Eternity servers and anonymous remailers)...do a
traceroute and an Internic whois. This will reveal his/her/its/their upstream
provider (a hop or two before the end of the traceroute or as a contact on the
whois results), among other things.

> If he doesn't, is there anything I can do?

Well, although I don't think this would be warranted for anything short of an
emergency, you could try a more direct DoS attack by hacking, death threats, or
DoS Politics, or you could try to get more powerful entities than yourself
pissed off at the spammer. Like I said, though, I don't think it's wise to
start a Scientology-esque netwar whenever an ISP turns you a deaf ear. Can't
imagine being a remailer operator trying to defend against all this, though...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Randall Farmer
    rfarmer at hiwaay.net
    http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer






From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org  Sat Jan 10 14:33:02 1998
From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 06:33:02 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980109002532.0084c330@alaska.net>
Message-ID: 



> >
> >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie
> >evidence of diminished mental capacity.
> 
> Don't bet on....
> 
> 
> There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the
> blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or
> the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't
> complete idiots and those of us who are.
> 
> 
Who's side are you on?






From vznuri at netcom.com  Sat Jan 10 15:07:49 1998
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 07:07:49 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801102300.PAA06067@netcom7.netcom.com>




[scientists]
>"Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results.
>Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles.

the mathematical establishment does not look with favor on Gauss'
secrecy. the commentary is generally that it is a shame he was
so secret and lost credit for his accomplishments. by the way,
I don't agree that publishing is merely about getting credit, although
because humans are egotistical, that can be a powerful motivator.

as for Fermat, -- I find it interesting you are now mentioning various
mathematicians; have never heard you refer to them. Fermat sent letters
to many of the great mathematicians of his time, and wouldn't even
be known if it weren't for his challenges. his famous theorem was
published by his *son* and this amazing gem came close to being
lost in all obscurity.

>Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only
>issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was
>about to announce similar conclusions.

in every case you cite, these people eventually published, and 
science is mostly aware of only their published results. agreed, 
science does not require that people publish immediately or even
in their own lifetime. it does demand that they eventually publish.
there are many informative episodes in which people who discovered
various scientific principles failed to convey them, or weren't
interested in it, and they had to be rediscovered by other 
scientists. these scientists advanced the knowledge by themselves
publishing.

science as a way of dealing with data can be practiced in private.
this is a feeble form.  science in its most potent form,
as the *advancement of the human condition* can only be
practiced in public.

>Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very
>important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone
>requirement? Of course not.

bzzzzzzzt. science atrophies without it. it is crucial to science.
it is central to it. but I don't wish to be considered an authority
on science or a defender of it. it has serious deficiencies as
practiced today.

>Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an
>atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was
>correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not.

you refer to science in a narrow sense of merely constructing things.
this is not the sense of science that is of crucial importance to
humanity as a whole. the atom bomb was in some ways a serious regression
of the collective human condition.

this is all so easy, refuting Timmy's feeble grasp of science, that
I might soon quit. unless I get the sense (which I have a finely honed
detector) that his veins are popping,
in which case I'll post a few treatises on the subject.

p.s.
>>I will post soon the list an article demonstrating my
>>anger at the betrayal of sound government by a sinister state
>>that has hijacked it.
>
>Have they begun torturing you with the snakes of Medusa yet?
>

hee, hee.
there are many more snakes and conspiracies 
in politics than there are in all of cyberspace. 
I've set my sights higher than nailing lame
conspiracist wannabes on an obscure mailing list degenerating
into the total noise it was always destined for. 
there are some people that are not
merely traitors to their government or various ideals, but
to the whole human race. but I'm the first to give credit
where it is due. I have always thanked all my enemies
profusely for expanding my horizons.






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Sat Jan 10 16:18:22 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:18:22 +0800
Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801092140.VAA00255@server.eternity.org>




Tim May  writes:
> [snip]
> The AMD K6 may not be quite the dog the K5 was, 

I've got a K5, seems like a fine CPU to me... around the performance
of a P166 for about 1/2 the price.

Why do you say the K5 is a dog?

K6 is similarly value for money.

I also bought a AMD 486 120Mhz a while ago for similar value for money
reasons.

I thought for a while Cyrix or AMD had faster processors available
than Intel.  (Just prior to to Pentium II, where the Pentium Pro was
highly priced and for some applications slower than an Pentium clocked
at the same speed).

I may not be off to buy AMD stock, but I like competition, and will
buy AMD or Cyrix any time they have a cheaper and compatible product.

Adam
-- 
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: <199801110017.QAA10591@netcom7.netcom.com>




>BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a
>bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil
>madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything
>in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution.

uh huh, and we stopped him by ... bombing hiroshima AND nagasaki?
I think there are greater madmen in the world than their poster
boy Hitler who financed his rise....

>Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a
>shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care
>if anyone else saw the results of his work.

bzzzzzzzzzzt, he eventually published at the urging of his friend Halley
and then got involved in bitter disputes about credit ..

  Once he had solved the
>problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others
>were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the
>answer.   He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. 

bzzzzzzzzt, I believe he was a member of scientific communities at the
time. he also was intensely 
involved in reforming the government monetary system. as a younger person
he was a loner, I agree.

hey everyone, go see "wag the dog" and think one nanosecond
about the world we live in and how it came to be the way
it is....






From vznuri at netcom.com  Sat Jan 10 16:30:08 1998
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:30:08 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801110024.QAA10953@netcom7.netcom.com>




>
>>Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at
>>heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not*
>>curiosity.
>....
>>You don't know Timmy very well do you...
>
>Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy)
>is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to
>favor this usage.

an insult? quite to the contrary, I have always considered it a term 
of endearment!!






From foggy at gilligan.netisle.net  Sat Jan 10 16:43:47 1998
From: foggy at gilligan.netisle.net (Gary Harland)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:43:47 +0800
Subject: Nervous Nellies at the PO
Message-ID: 



                                      
Came across this by chance...having never heard of this 'disgruntled'
web site, I'm curious as to how the PO managed to learn about the
offending story...if they fired him because of an explicity fictional
article expressing a fantasy shared by vast hordes of Americans then
it kind of looks like the Post Office 'went postal' on one of their
employees.

>   DISGRUNTLED POSTAL WORKER
>   
>   A South Bay postal worker has been fired for a fictional article he
>   got published on the Internet, in which he depicted a worker who was
>   so fed up with conditions in his San Jose office that he pulled out a
>   gun and shot his dictatorial and much despised supervisor. The article
>   appeared in December in the on-line publication Disgruntled, which
>   bills itself as the business magazine for people who work for a
>   living.
>   
>   The story, "Scrooged Again," appeared to have struck a nerve with his
>   employer, who informed him that he would be removed from his job at
>   the postal service effective Jan. 27 because of "unacceptable and
>   disrespectful conduct."
>   
>   The Web page site for Disgruntled is: http://www.disgruntled.com
>   

-----------------------------------------------------------------
foggy at netisle.net                  lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12"
"Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than
make oneself hated and feared."                    -F. Nietzche-
-----------------------------------------------------------------






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 10 16:54:28 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:54:28 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 3:00 PM -0800 1/10/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>[scientists]
>>"Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results.
>>Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles.
>
>the mathematical establishment does not look with favor on Gauss'
>secrecy. the commentary is generally that it is a shame he was

Doesn't matter how the establishment (whatever that might be) looked on him
or not...you challenged me to name _one_ example, and I named several. Oh,
and it is not true as you later claim that all of my examples "eventually
published" all of their findings. Fermat did not, Gauss did not.

My main point has been to refute your notion that any one who elects not to
publish in the open literature cannot be a scientist. I know of many
scientists who could not publish, or chose not to for various reasons.

I mentioned the Manhattan Project scientists. (Choate made some bizarre
claim after this mention that all of the science was known in the 20 and
30s, and that no actual science was done by MP "engineers" and
"technicians." Might be a surprise to Ulam, Teller, von Neumann, and all
the others who worked in secrecy on the atom bomb, then the hydrogen bomb,
and so on.)

Oh, and what of all the many fine Russian scientists of this century,
nearly all restricted in what they could publish? Because they could not
submit their work to open publication were they not doing science?

The point being that open publication is only a part of the methodology of
doing science, and a fairly recent one, too.

>as for Fermat, -- I find it interesting you are now mentioning various
>mathematicians; have never heard you refer to them. Fermat sent letters

I know Detweiler that you hang on my every word, compiling indices of what
I and my tentacles have been beaming out to you, but I don't track such
trivia about whether or not I have ever mentioned mathematicians. I would
asssume I have, as I recall discussing von Neumann, Hadamard, and other
mathematicians over the years.

But I'll leave it to you to search the archives over the past 5 years....

>hee, hee.
>there are many more snakes and conspiracies
>in politics than there are in all of cyberspace.

You ought to know.

--Tim May and his Tentacles

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 17:05:03 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:05:03 +0800
Subject: Gauss.html
Message-ID: <199801110130.TAA15141@einstein.ssz.com>



                          JOHANN CARL FRIEDRICH GAUSS
                                       
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
  Born: 30 April 1777 in Brunswick, Duchy of Brunswick (now Germany)
  Died: 23 Feb 1855 in G�ttingen, Hanover (now Germany)
  
   [LINK] 
   
   Show birthplace location
   
   Previous (Chronologically) Next Biographies Index
   Previous (Alphabetically) Next Welcome page
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     Carl Friedrich Gauss worked in a wide variety of fields in both
     mathematics and physics incuding number theory, analysis,
     differential geometry, geodesy, magnetism, astronomy and optics. His
     work has had an immense influence in many areas.
     
   At the age of seven, Carl Friedrich started elementary school, and his
   potential was noticed almost immediately. His teacher, B�ttner, and
   his assistant, Martin Bartels, were amazed when Gauss summed the
   integers from 1 to 100 instantly by spotting that the sum was 50 pairs
   of numbers each pair summing to 101.
   
   In 1788 Gauss began his education at the Gymnasium with the help of
   B�ttner and Bartels, where he learnt High German and Latin. After
   receiving a stipend from the Duke of Brunswick- Wolfenb�ttel, Gauss
   entered Brunswick Collegium Carolinum in 1792. At the academy Gauss
   independently discovered Bode's law, the binomial theorem and the
   arithmetic- geometric mean, as well as the law of quadratic
   reciprocity and the prime number theorem.
   
   In 1795 Gauss left Brunswick to study at G�ttingen University. Gauss's
   teacher there was Kaestner, whom Gauss often ridiculed. His only known
   friend amongst the students was Farkas Bolyai. They met in 1799 and
   corresponded with each other for many years.
   
   Gauss left G�ttingen in 1798 without a diploma, but by this time he
   had made one of his most important discoveries - the construction of a
   regular 17-gon by ruler and compasses This was the most major advance
   in this field since the time of Greek mathematics and was published as
   Section VII of Gauss's famous work, Disquisitiones Arithmeticae .
   
   Gauss returned to Brunswick where he received a degree in 1799. After
   the Duke of Brunswick had agreed to continue Gauss's stipend, he
   requested that Gauss submit a doctoral dissertation to the University
   of Helmstedt. He already knew Pfaff, who was chosen to be his advisor.
   Gauss's dissertation was a discussion of the fundamental theorem of
   algebra.
   
   With his stipend to support him, Gauss did not need to find a job so
   devoted himself to research. He published the book Disquisitiones
   Arithmeticae in the summer of 1801. There were seven sections, all but
   the last section, referred to above, being devoted to number theory.
   
   In June 1801, Zach, an astronomer whom Gauss had come to know two or
   three years previously, published the orbital positions of Ceres, a
   new "small planet" which was discovered by G Piazzi, an Italian
   astronomer on 1 January, 1801. Unfortunately, Piazzi had only been
   able to observe 9 degrees of its orbit before it disappeared behind
   the Sun. Zach published several predictions of its position, including
   one by Gauss which differed greatly from the others. When Ceres was
   rediscovered by Zach on 7 December 1801 it was almost exactly where
   Gauss had predicted. Although he did not disclose his methods at the
   time, Gauss had used his least squares approximation method.
   
   In June 1802 Gauss visited Olbers who had discovered Pallas in March
   of that year and Gauss investigated its orbit. Olbers requested that
   Gauss be made director of the proposed new observatory in G�ttingen,
   but no action was taken. Gauss began corresponding with Bessel, whom
   he did not meet until 1825, and with Sophie Germain.
   
   Gauss married Johanna Ostoff on 9 October, 1805. Despite having a
   happy personal life for the first time, his benefactor, the Duke of
   Brunswick, was killed fighting for the Prussian army. In 1807 Gauss
   left Brunswick to take up the position of director of the G�ttingen
   observatory.
   
   Gauss arrived in G�ttingen in late 1807. In 1808 his father died, and
   a year later Gauss's wife Johanna died after giving birth to their
   second son, who was to die soon after her. Gauss was shattered and
   wrote to Olbers asking him give him a home for a few weeks,
   
     to gather new strength in the arms of your friendship - strength for
     a life which is only valuable because it belongs to my three small
     children.
     
   Gauss was married for a second time the next year, to Minna the best
   friend of Johanna, and although they had three children, this marriage
   seemed to be one of convenience for Gauss.
   
   Gauss's work never seemed to suffer from his personal tragedy. He
   published his second book, Theoria motus corporum coelestium in
   sectionibus conicis Solem ambientium, in 1809, a major two volume
   treatise on the motion of celestial bodies. In the first volume he
   discussed differential equations, conic sections and elliptic orbits,
   while in the second volume, the main part of the work, he showed how
   to estimate and then to refine the estimation of a planet's orbit.
   Gauss's contributions to theoretical astronomy stopped after 1817,
   although he went on making observations until the age of 70.
   
   Much of Gauss's time was spent on a new observatory, completed in
   1816, but he still found the time to work on other subjects. His
   publications during this time include Disquisitiones generales circa
   seriem infinitam , a rigorous treatment of series and an introduction
   of the hypergeometric function, Methodus nova integralium valores per
   approximationem inveniendi , a practical essay on approximate
   integration, Bestimmung der Genauigkeit der Beobachtungen , a
   discussion of statistical estimators, and Theoria attractionis
   corporum sphaeroidicorum ellipticorum homogeneorum methodus nova
   tractata . The latter work was inspired by geodesic problems and was
   principally concerned with potential theory. In fact, Gauss found
   himself more and more interested in geodesy in the 1820's.
   
   Gauss had been asked in 1818 to carry out a geodesic survey of the
   state of Hanover to link up with the existing Danish grid. Gauss was
   pleased to accept and took personal charge of the survey, making
   measurements during the day and reducing them at night, using his
   extraordinary mental capacity for calculations. He regularly wrote to
   Schumacher, Olbers and Bessel, reporting on his progress and
   discussing problems.
   
   Because of the survey, Gauss invented the heliotrope which worked by
   reflecting the Sun's rays using a design of mirrors and a small
   telescope. However, inaccurate base lines were used for the survey and
   an unsatisfactory network of triangles. Gauss often wondered if he
   would have been better advised to have pursued some other occupation
   but he published over 70 papers between 1820 and 1830.
   
   In 1822 Gauss won the Copenhagen University Prize with Theoria
   attractionis... together with the idea of mapping one surface onto
   another so that the two are similar in their smallest parts . This
   paper was published in 1825 and led to the much later publication of
   Untersuchungen �ber Gegenst�nde der H�heren Geod�sie (1843 and 1846).
   The paper Theoria combinationis observationum erroribus minimis
   obnoxiae (1823), with its supplement (1828), was devoted to
   mathematical statistics, in particular to the least squares method.
   
   From the early 1800's Gauss had an interest in the question of the
   possible existence of a non-Euclidean geometry. He discussed this
   topic at length with Farkas Bolyai and in his correspondence with
   Gerling and Schumacher. In a book review in 1816 he discussed proofs
   which deduced the axiom of parallels from the other Euclidean axioms,
   suggesting that he believed in the existence of non-Euclidean
   geometry, although he was rather vague. Gauss confided in Schumacher,
   telling him that he believed his reputation would suffer if he
   admitted in public that he believed in the existence of such a
   geometry.
   
   In 1831 Farkas Bolyai sent to Gauss his son J�nos Bolyai's work on the
   subject. Gauss replied
   
     to praise it would mean to praise myself .
     
   Again, a decade later, when he was informed of Lobachevsky's work on
   the subject, he praised its "genuinely geometric" character, while in
   a letter to Schumacher in 1846, states that he
   
     had the same convictions for 54 years
     
   indicating that he had known of the existence of a non-Euclidean
   geometry since he was 15 years of age (this seems unlikely).
   
   Gauss had a major interest in differential geometry, and published
   many papers on the subject. Disquisitiones generales circa superficies
   curva (1828) was his most renowned work in this field. In fact, this
   paper rose from his geodesic interests, but it contained such
   geometrical ideas as Gaussian curvature. The paper also includes
   Gauss's famous theorema egregrium:
   
     If an area in E ^3 can be developed (i.e. mapped isometrically) into
     another area of E ^3 , the values of the Gaussian curvatures are
     identical in corresponding points.
     
   The period 1817-1832 was a particularly distressing time for Gauss. He
   took in his sick mother in 1817, who stayed until her death in 1839,
   while he was arguing with his wife and her family about whether they
   should go to Berlin. He had been offered a position at Berlin
   University and Minna and her family were keen to move there. Gauss,
   however, never liked change and decided to stay in G�ttingen. In 1831
   Gauss's second wife died after a long illness.
   
   In 1831, Wilhelm Weber arrived in G�ttingen as physics professor
   filling Tobias Mayer's chair. Gauss had known Weber since 1828 and
   supported his appointment. Gauss had worked on physics before 1831,
   publishing Uber ein neues allgemeines Grundgesetz der Mechanik , which
   contained the principle of least constraint, and Principia generalia
   theoriae figurae fluidorum in statu aequilibrii which discussed forces
   of attraction. These papers were based on Gauss's potential theory,
   which proved of great importance in his work on physics. He later came
   to believe his potential theory and his method of least squares
   provided vital links between science and nature.
   
   In 1832, Gauss and Weber began investigating the theory of terrestrial
   magnetism after Alexander von Humboldt attempted to obtain Gauss's
   assistance in making a grid of magnetic observation points around the
   Earth. Gauss was excited by this prospect and by 1840 he had written
   three important papers on the subject: Intensitas vis magneticae
   terrestris ad mensuram absolutam revocata (1832), Allgemeine Theorie
   des Erdmagnetismus (1839) and Allgemeine Lehrs�tze in Beziehung auf
   die im verkehrten Verh�ltnisse des Quadrats der Entfernung wirkenden
   Anziehungs- und Abstossungskr�fte (1840). These papers all dealt with
   the current theories on terrestrial magnetism, including Poisson's
   ideas, absolute measure for magnetic force and an empirical definition
   of terrestrial magnetism. Dirichlet's principal was mentioned without
   proof.
   
   Allgemeine Theorie... showed that there can only be two poles in the
   globe and went on to prove an important theorem, which concerned the
   determination of the intensity of the horizontal component of the
   magnetic force along with the angle of inclination. Gauss used the
   Laplace equation to aid him with his calculations, and ended up
   specifying a location for the magnetic South pole.
   
   Humboldt had devised a calendar for observations of magnetic
   declination. However, once Gauss's new magnetic observatory (completed
   in 1833 - free of all magnetic metals) had been built, he proceeded to
   alter many of Humboldt's procedures, not pleasing Humboldt greatly.
   However, Gauss's changes obtained more accurate results with less
   effort.
   
   Gauss and Weber achieved much in their six years together. They
   discovered Kirchhoff's laws, as well as building a primitive telegraph
   device which could send messages over a distance of 5000 ft. However,
   this was just an enjoyable pastime for Gauss. He was more interested
   in the task of establishing a world-wide net of magnetic observation
   points. This occupation produced many concrete results. The
   Magnetischer Verein and its journal were founded, and the atlas of
   geomagnetism was published, while Gauss and Weber's own journal in
   which their results were published ran from 1836 to 1841.
   
   In 1837, Weber was forced to leave G�ttingen when he became involved
   in a political dispute and, from this time, Gauss's activity gradually
   decreased. He still produced letters in response to fellow scientists'
   discoveries usually remarking that he had known the methods for years
   but had never felt the need to publish. Sometimes he seemed extremely
   pleased with advances made by other mathematicians, particularly that
   of Eisenstein and of Lobachevsky.
   
   Gauss spent the years from 1845 to 1851 updating the G�ttingen
   University widow's fund. This work gave him practical experience in
   financial matters, and he went on to make his fortune through shrewd
   investments in bonds issued by private companies.
   
   Two of Gauss's last doctoral students were Moritz Cantor and Dedekind.
   Dedekind wrote a fine description of his supervisor
   
     ... usually he sat in a comfortable attitude, looking down, slightly
     stooped, with hands folded above his lap. He spoke quite freely,
     very clearly, simply and plainly: but when he wanted to emphasise a
     new viewpoint ... then he lifted his head, turned to one of those
     sitting next to him, and gazed at him with his beautiful,
     penetrating blue eyes during the emphatic speech. ... If he
     proceeded from an explanation of principles to the development of
     mathematical formulas, then he got up, and in a stately very upright
     posture he wrote on a blackboard beside him in his peculiarly
     beautiful handwriting: he always succeeded through economy and
     deliberate arrangement in making do with a rather small space. For
     numerical examples, on whose careful completion he placed special
     value, he brought along the requisite data on little slips of paper.
     
   Gauss presented his golden jubilee lecture in 1849, fifty years after
   his diploma had been granted by Hemstedt University. It was
   appropriately a variation on his dissertation of 1799. From the
   mathematical community only Jacobi and Dirichlet were present, but
   Gauss received many messages and honours.
   
   From 1850 onwards Gauss's work was again of nearly all of a practical
   nature although he did approve Riemann's doctoral thesis and heard his
   probationary lecture. His last known scientific exchange was with
   Gerling. He discussed a modified Foucalt pendulum in 1854. He was also
   able to attend the opening of the new railway link between Hanover and
   G�ttingen, but this proved to be his last outing. His health
   deteriorated slowly, and Gauss died in his sleep early in the morning
   of 23 February, 1855.
   
   References (67 books/articles)
   
   Some pages from works by Gauss:
   
   A letter from Gauss to Taurinus discussing the possibility of
   non-Euclidean geometry.
   An extract from Theoria residuorum biquadraticorum 
   (1828-32)
   
   References elsewhere in this archive:
   
   You can see another picture of Gauss in 1803.
   
   Tell me about the Prime Number Theorem
   
   Show me Gauss's estimate for the density of primes and compare it with
   Legendre's
   
   Tell me about Gauss's part in investigating prime numbers
   
   Tell me about Gauss's part in the development of group theory and
   matrices and determinants
   
   Tell me about his work on non-Euclidean geometry and topology
   
   Tell me about Gauss's work on the fundamental theorem of algebra
   
   Tell me about his work on orbits and gravitation
   
   Other Web sites:
   
   You can find out about the Prime Number Theorem at University of
   Tennessee, USA
   
   
   
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Previous (Chronologically) Next Biographies Index
   Previous (Alphabetically) Next Welcome page
   History Topics Index Famous curves index
   Chronologies Birthplace Maps
   Mathematicians of the day Anniversaries for the year
   Search Form Simple Search Form Search Suggestions
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   JOC/EFR December 1996






From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu  Sat Jan 10 17:06:15 1998
From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:06:15 +0800
Subject: Spam
Message-ID: <19980111010001.27499.qmail@nym.alias.net>



>I've got a question for y'all.
>
>Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that
>I couldn't do anything about with what I have the
>knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up only
>one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer.
>
>I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out
>more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does
>in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so,
>I'm not sure how to find that out.  If he doesn't, is
>there anything I can do?

His traffic has to be routing through somebody or multiple somebodies.
Traceroute it and complain to the upstream site. Unless they're cretins like
CIX they'll kill his connection.






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 17:26:35 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:26:35 +0800
Subject: LUC Public Key Crypto...
Message-ID: <199801110150.TAA15260@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

In the process of doing some research on Gauss I stumbled across this...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|


Forwarded message:

>    Dr. Dobb's Web Site
>    
>                           LUC PUBLIC-KEY ENCRYPTION
>                                        
>    
>    
>    A secure alternative to RSA
>    
>    Peter Smith
>    
>    Peter has worked in the computer industry for 15 years as a
>    programmer, analyst, and consultant and has served as deputy editor of
>    Asian Computer Monthly. Peter's interest in number theory led to the
>    invention of LUC in 1991. He can be reached at 25 Lawrence Street,
>    Herne Bay, Auckland, New Zealand.
>    
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    According to former NSA director Bobby Innman, public-key cryptography
>    was discovered by the National Security Agency in the early seventies.
>    At the time, pundits remarked that public-key cryptography (PKC) was
>    like binary nerve gas--it was potent when two different substances
>    were brought together, but quite innocuous in its separate parts.
>    Because the NSA promptly classified it, not much was known about PKC
>    until the mid-seventies when Martin Hellman and Whitfield Diffie
>    independently came up with the notion and published papers about it.
>    
>    Traditional cryptographic systems like the venerable Data Encryption
>    Standard (DES) use the same key at both ends of a message
>    transmission. The problem of ensuring correct keys leads to such
>    expensive expedients as distributing the keys physically with trusted
>    couriers. Diffie and Hellman (and the NSA) had the idea of making the
>    keys different at each end. In addition to encryption, they envisioned
>    this scheme would also lead to a powerful means of source
>    authentication known as digital signatures.
>    
>    RSA, developed in 1977, was the first reliable method of source
>    authentication. The RSA approach (patented in the early eighties)
>    initiated intense research in "number theory," one of the most
>    recondite areas of mathematics. Although C.F. Gauss studied this topic
>    in the early 1800s (referring to it then as "higher arithmetic"), very
>    little real progress has been made in solving the problem of factoring
>    since then. The means available today are essentially no better than
>    exhaustive searching for prime factors. In terms of intractability
>    theory, however, no one has yet proved that the problem is
>    intractable, although researchers believe it to be so.
>    
>    
>    
> The RSA Algorithm
> 
>    
>    
>    RSA works by raising a message block to a very large power, then
>    reducing this modulo N, where N (the product of two large prime
>    numbers) is part of the key. Typical systems use an N of 512 bits, and
>    the exponent to which blocks are raised in decryption is of the same
>    order. An immediate problem in implementing such a system is the
>    representation and efficient manipulation of such large integers.
>    (Standard microprocessors don't really have the power to handle normal
>    integer sizes and functions; even numeric coprocessors are inadequate
>    when integers of this size are involved.)
>    
>    RSA has dominated public-key encryption for the last 15 years as
>    research has failed to turn up a reliable alternative--until the
>    advent of LUC. Based on the same difficult mathematical problem as
>    RSA, LUC uses the calculation of Lucas functions instead of
>    exponentiation. (See text box entitled, "How the Lucas Alternative
>    Works.")
>    
>    Because we're working in the area of mathematics, we can formally
>    prove that LUC is a true alternative to RSA. Furthermore, we can show
>    that a cipher based on LUC will be at least as efficient. More
>    importantly, we can show that LUC is a stronger cipher than RSA. The
>    reason is that under RSA, the digital signature of a product is the
>    product of the signatures making up the product; in mathematical
>    terms, M{e}L{e}=(ML){e}. This opens RSA to a cryptographic attack
>    known as adaptive chosen-message forgery. Ironically, this is outlined
>    in a paper co-authored by Ron Rivest (the "R" in RSA). LUC is not
>    multiplicative and therefore not susceptible to this attack. Using
>    Lucas functions, V[e](M,1)V[e](L,1) is not equal to V[e](ML,1). In
>    other words, the use of exponentiation leads to RSA being
>    multiplicative in this way, while LUC's use of Lucas functions avoids
>    this weakness.
>    
> Choosing the Algorithms
> 
>    
>    
>    Lucas functions have been studied mainly in relation to primality
>    testing, and it was to these sources we turned when researching
>    efficient algorithms for implementing LUC. For given parameters, the
>    Lucas functions give rise to two series, U[n] and V[n]. The first
>    algorithm (see Listing One, page 90) calculated both, even though we
>    were only interested in V[n]. It was only in a paper on factoring
>    integers that we found a means of calculating V[n] alone (see Listing
>    Two, page 90). The pseudocode examples show that both algorithms have
>    two phases: The work done when the current bit is a 0 is half the work
>    necessary when the current bit is a 1.
>    
>    More Details.
>    
>    Typically, in systems like LUC the exponent used for encryption is a
>    much smaller integer than that used for decryption. A commonly chosen
>    encryption exponent is the prime number 65,537. This is a good choice
>    for fast encryption as all but 2 of the 17 bits are 0s. We have no
>    such control over the decryption exponent, but there is a way of
>    halving the work, and thus, of introducing a limited degree of
>    parallelism into the calculation.
>    
>    Since LUC is a public-key cryptosystem, we can always assume that the
>    possessor of the private decrypting keys knows the two primes (p and
>    q) which make up the modulus, N. Consequently, we can reduce the
>    exponent and message with respect to the two primes, in each case at
>    least halving the amount of work. At the end of the calculation with
>    respect to the primes, we bring the results together to produce the
>    final plain text (see Listing Three, page 90).
>    
> Large-integer Arithmetic
> 
>    
>    
>    There's really only one source of information about large-integer
>    arithmetic: Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming. We found that
>    almost every time we referred to his book, we came up with some new
>    angle or way of tweaking some extra performance out of our code.
>    
>    We decided to represent the large integers as 256-byte arrays, with
>    the low byte giving the length (in bytes) of the integer. For
>    instance, the 8-byte hexadecimal number 1234567890ABCDEF would appear
>    in a file view as 08 EF CD AB 90 78 56 34 12. These arrays became a
>    Pascal-type har (for hexadecimal array). We can store integers of over
>    600 decimal digits in our hars, but because the hars must be able to
>    hold the results of a multiplication, we are limited to manipulating
>    integers up to 300 decimal digits in length.
>    
>    Implementation of addition, subtraction, and multiplication went quite
>    smoothly; implementation of division took more effort. (We took
>    comfort in not being the first to encounter problems with division.
>    Lady Ada Lovelace, the first computer programmer, said, "I am still
>    working at some most entangled notations of division, but see my way
>    through them at the expense of heavy labor, from which I shall not
>    shrink as long as my head can bear it.") We tried various methods,
>    including one based on Newton which calculated the inverse of the
>    divisor and then multiplied. (See Knuth's discussion.) We finally
>    opted for Knuth's Algorithm D, despite his warning that it contained
>    possible discontinuities. At that stage, we were working on a 16-bit
>    80286 PC; see Listing Four, page 90.
>    
>    Of course there was much more than the division routine to consider,
>    but we found that it was the critical routine in terms of getting LUC
>    to run at a reasonable speed. Once we had upgraded to an 80386, we
>    converted to a full 32-bit implementation. The assembler code for the
>    division (still Algorithm D) is given in Listing Five (page 91).
>    Although space constraints prevent a complete presentation of the
>    code, suffice to say that we have been able to achieve a
>    signing/decryption speed on a modulus of 512 bits of over 200 bits per
>    second (33-MHz 80386, 0 wait states).
>    
> Other Issues
> 
>    
>    
>    Central to any cryptographic system are keys. In LUC, if an adversary
>    is able to find p and q, the prime factors of modulus N, then all
>    messages sent with N can be either read in the case of encryption or
>    forged in the case of signing.
>    
>    Since the days of Gauss, research on factoring has come up with
>    various so-called "aleatoric" methods of factoring some numbers. These
>    methods are like cures for poison ivy: numerous, and occasionally
>    efficacious. One old method, found by Pierre Fermat, is very quick at
>    factoring some types of composite numbers. If N is the product of two
>    primes which are close together, then it can be easily factored. For
>    example, if p=1949, and q=1951, then N=3802499. Taking the square root
>    of N, we find that it is approximately 1949.999. Adding 1 to the
>    integral part of this (giving 1950), we square this, giving 3802500.
>    If we now subtract N from this square, we get a difference of 1, which
>    is the square of itself. This means that N has been expressed as the
>    difference of two squares. As we learned in high school, x{2}-y{2} =
>    (x-y)(x+y), and so we obtain the two factors.
>    
>    Fermat's method works whenever the ratio of the factors is close to an
>    integer. (Note that the ratio is close to 1 in the above discussion.)
>    This attack, as cryptographers call methods used to break a cipher,
>    has to be guarded against in generating the modulus N.
>    
>    Another guard is that neither (p + 1) and (q + 1) nor (p - 1) and (q -
>    1) should be made up of small prime factors. There are many other
>    guards of varying degrees of importance, but the entire area needs
>    consideration depending on the level of security required, and how
>    long the keys are meant to last.
>    
>    The basic idea behind LUC is that of providing an alternative to RSA
>    by substituting the calculation of Lucas functions for that of
>    exponentiation. While Lucas functions are somewhat more complex
>    mathematically than exponentiation, they produce superior ciphers.
>    
>    This substitution process can be done with systems other than the RSA.
>    Among these are the Hellman-Diffie-Merkle key exchange system (U.S.
>    Patent number 4,200,770), the El Gamal public-key cryptosystem, the El
>    Gamal digital signature, and the recently proposed Digital Signature
>    Standard (DSS), all of which use exponentiation.
>    
>    The nonmultiplicative aspect of Lucas functions carries over, allowing
>    us to produce alternatives to all these. In the case of the DSS, Lucas
>    functions allow us to dispense with the one-way hashing cited (but not
>    specified) in the draft standard.
>    
>    A New Zealand consortium has been set up to develop and license
>    systems based on LUC, which is protected by a provisional patent. For
>    more information, contact me or Horace R. Moore, 101 E. Bonita, Sierra
>    Madre, California 91024.
>    
> References
> 
>    
>    
>    Athanasiou, Tom. "Encryption Technology, Privacy, and National
>    Security." MIT Technology Review (August/September, 1986).
>    
>    Diffie, W. and M.E. Hellman. "New Directions in Cryptography." IEEE
>    Transactions on Information Theory (November, 1976).
>    
>    El Gamal, Taher. "A Public Key Cryptosystem and a Signature Scheme
>    Based on Discrete Logarithms." IEEE Transactions on Information Theory
>    (July, 1985).
>    
>    Gauss, C.F. "Disquisitiones Arithmeticae," Article 329.
>    
>    Goldwasser, S., S. Micali, and R. Rivest. "A Digital Signature Scheme
>    Secure Against Adaptive Chosen Message Attack." SIAM J. COMPUT (April,
>    1988).
>    
>    Kaliski, Burton S., Jr. "Multiple-precision Arithmetic in C." Dr.
>    Dobb's Journal (August, 1992).
>    
>    Knuth, D.E. The Art of Computer Programming: Volume II: Semi-Numerical
>    Algorithms, second edition. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley, 1981.
>    
>    Schneier, Bruce. "Untangling Public Key Cryptography." Dr. Dobb's
>    Journal (May, 1992).
>    
>    Williams, H.C. "A p + 1 method of factoring." Mathematics of
>    Computation (vol. 39, 1982).
>    
> How the Lucas Alternative Works
> 
>    
>    
>    As with RSA encryption, use of the Lucas alternative involves two
>    public keys: N and e. The number N is assumed to be the product of two
>    large (odd) prime numbers, p and q. Encryption and decryption of a
>    message is achieved using Lucas sequences, which may be defined as
>    shown in Example 1. Note that P and Q are integers.
>    
>    If a message P is to be sent, it is encoded as the residue P1 modulo N
>    of the eth term of the Lucas sequence V[n](P,1), and then transmitted.
>    The receiver uses a secret key d (based on the prime factorization of
>    N) to decode the received message P1, by taking the residue modulo N
>    of the dth term of the Lucas sequence V[n](P1,1). The secret key d is
>    determined so that V[d](V[e](P,1),1) = P modulo N, ensuring the
>    decryption of the received message P1 as P. The existence of such a
>    key d is based on the following theorem.
>    
> Theorem
> 
>    
>    
>    Suppose N is any odd positive integer, and P is any positive integer,
>    such as P{2}-4 is coprime to N. If r is the Lehmer totient function of
>    N with respect to D = P{2}-4 (see Example 2), then V[mr+1](P,1)=P
>    modulo N for every positive integer m. The condition that P{2}-4 be
>    coprime to N is easily checked, as P{2}-4=(P+2)(P-2). Also, because
>    V[d](V[e](P,1),1)=V[de](P,1), according to Example 4(e), the key d may
>    simply be chosen so that de=1 modulo r.
>    
> The Lehmer Totient Function
> 
>    
>    
>    Suppose P and Q are integers, and a and b are the zeros of X{2}-Px+Q
>    (so that P = a+b while Q = ab). Also, let D be the discriminant of
>    x{2}-Px+Q. That is, D = P{2}-4Q = (a-b){2}.
>    
>    The Lucas sequences U[n] = U[n] (P,Q) and V[n] = V[n] (P,Q) are
>    defined for n = 0,1,2, and so on by the equation in Example3.
>    
>    In particular, U[0] = 0, U[1] = 1, and then U[n+1] = PU[n] - QU[n-1]
>    (for n = 1,2,3,...), while V[0] = 2, V[1] = P, and similarly V[n+1]=
>    PV[n]-QV[n-1] (for n = 1,2,3,...). These sequences satisfy a number of
>    identities, including the following which may be simply obtained from
>    the definitions in Example 4.
>    
>    Next, suppose N is any positive integer, and let r be the Lehmer
>    totient function of N with respect to D = P{2}-4Q, defined the same
>    way as in the statement of the theorem. In the special case where N is
>    an odd prime p, the Lehmer totient function of p with respect to D is
>    the number given by the equation in Example 5(a). In this case, the
>    Lucas-Lehmer theorem states that if p does not divide Q then the
>    equation in Example 5(b) holds true.
>    
> Example of LUC
> 
>    
>    
>    Let N = pxq = 1949x2089=4071461, and P = 11111, which equals the
>    message to encrypt/decrypt. The public keys will be e and N; the
>    private key will be d. First, calculate r, the Lehmer totient function
>    of P with respect to N. To do this we need to calculate the Legendre
>    of p and q. Let D = p{2}-4; then (D/1949) =-1 and (D/2089)=-1 are the
>    two Legendre values. Hence r is the least common multiple of 1949 + 1
>    and 2089 + 1; see Example 6(a). Choosing e = 1103 for our public key,
>    we use the Extended Euclidean Algorithm to find the secret key d, by
>    solving the modular equation ed = 1 mod r. d turns out to equal 24017.
>    
>    To encrypt the message 11111, we make the calculation shown in Example
>    6(b). To decrypt the encrypted message, we calculate as in Example
>    6(c). --P.S.
>    
> 
> _LUC PUBLIC-KEY ENCRYPTION_
> by Peter Smith
> 
> 
> [LISTING ONE]
> 
> { To calculate Ve(P,1) modulo N }
>  Procedure LUCcalc;
>  {Initialise}
>  BEGIN
>  D := P*P - 4; ut := 1; vt := P; u := ut; v := vt;
>  If not odd(e) then BEGIN u := 0; v := 2; END;
>  e := e div 2;
>  {Start main}
>  While e > 0 do
>    BEGIN
>    ut := ut*vt mod N; vt := vt*vt mod N;
>    If vt < 3 then vt := vt + N;
>    vt := vt - 2;
>    If odd(e) then
>      BEGIN
>      c := (ut*v + u*vt) mod N;
>      v := (vt*v + D*u*ut) mod N;
>      If odd(v) then v := v + N; v := v/2;
>      If odd(c) then c := c + N; u := c/2;
>      END;
>    e := e div 2;
>    END;
>  END;    {LUCcalc}
> 
> { The required result is the value of v.}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [LISTING TWO]
> Pseudocode for calculating Lucas Functions
> 
> Procedure wiluc  {   V = V(M) Mod N, the Mth Lucas number(P,1) }
> Var
>                     V,Vb,P,Vf,N,M,NP, Vd, Vf : LargeInteger ;
>                     carry, high_bit_set      : boolean ;
>                     bz                        : word ;
>   BEGIN
>   Va := 2 ;   { V[0] }  Vb = P ;   { V[1] }
>   NP := N - P; bz := bits(M) -1 ; { test bits from high bit downwards }
>   For j := 1 to bz do
>       BEGIN
>       Vc := Vb * Vb; Vf = Vc ; If Vf < 2 then Vf := Vf + N
>       Vf := Vf - 2; Vd := Va * Vb
>       {  Vc := V, Vd := V*Vb, Vf := V-2}
>      If high_bit_set Then
>           BEGIN
>           Vb := P * Vc; If Vb < Vd then Vb := Vb + N; Vb := Vb - Vd;
>           If Vb < P then Vb := Vb + N; Vb := Vb - P; Va := Vf
>           END ;
>      Else BEGIN { "even" ie high bit not set }
>           Va := Vd; If Va < P then Va := Va + N; Va := Va - P;
>           Vb := Vf;
>           END ;
>      High_bit_set := next_bit_down(M);
>      {This boolean function determines the setting of the next bit down}
>      Va := Va Mod N; Vb := Vb Mod N
>      END ; { for j to bz }
> END ; {wiluc}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [LISTING THREE]
> 
> { Pseudocode for splitting decryption/signing over p and q
>   (N = p*q) }
> Procedure hafluc ( var s,p,q,m,e : LargeInteger ; qix : word ) ;
> var                            ep,emq,
>                                temp,pi,qi,
>                                b,n,pa,qa : LargeInteger ;
> 
> { This procedure applies only to decipherment and signing, where the primes
>   making up the modulus N ( = p * q) are known (or can be easily deduced,
>   since both keys are known). Applying it allows us to halve the amount of
>   work. Encipherment is usually done with a small key - standard is 65537. }
>   Begin
>   Qpr (pa,qa,p,q,m,qix ) ; {} {assumes qix already calculated }
>   ep  = e ;              ep  = ep  Mod pa
>   emq = e ;   emq  = emq Mod qa
>   mp  = m ;    mp  = mp Mod p
>   mq  = m ;    mq  = mq Mod q
>   wiluc(q2,mq,emq,q) ;        wiluc(p2,mp,ep,p) ;
>   if p2 < q2 then
>       Begin
>       temp = q         q  = p    p  = temp
>       temp = q2        q2 = p2   p2 = temp
>       End ;
>   temp = p2   temp = temp - q2
>   n = p * q
> { Solve with Extended Euclidean algorithm qi = 1/q Mod p. The algorithm
> for the Extended Euclidean calculation can be found in Knuth. }
>   r = temp * p
>   r = r mod N
>   s = r * qi
>   s = s Mod n
>   s = s + p2
> End ; { hafluc }
> Procedure SignVerify ;
>   Begin
>   h4 = 4
>   p = large prime...
>   q = large prime...
>   n = p * q
>   bz := bits(n) ;
>     {write(cf,'  generate 4 keysets (d,e)  for p1,q1') ;}
> {
>       qix table for T[qix]
>      Convention for qix
>  This calculation is explained below.
>    Lehmer totient      qix   Legendre values for p  and   q
>    i.e. T[qix] = LCM
>    (p - 1),(q - 1)     1                         1        1
>    (p - 1),(q + 1)     2                         1       -1
>    (p + 1),(q - 1)     3                        -1        1
>    (p + 1),(q + 1)     4                        -1       -1
>     e = encryption key,  small prime eg 65537
>     mu = message as large integer less than n
>     Solve e * d[qix] = 1 Mod T[qix] using Extended Euclidean Algorithm
>     where T[qix] is lcm(p1,q1), the Lehmer totient function of N
>     with repect to mu, according to the above table.
>     This gives 4 possible values of d, the decryption/signing key.
>     The particular value used depends on the message mu, as follows:
>     Let D = mu2 - 4. Calculate the Legendre values of D with respect to
>     both p and q. This value is -1 if D is a quadratic non-residue of
>     p (or q), and equal to 1 if D is a quadratic residue of p (or q).
>     N.B. This part is the most difficult part of LUC! Take care.
> 
>     Signing (Deciphering):
>     hafluc (a,pu,qu,mu,d,qix)
> 
>     Verifying (Enciphering):
>     Use Wiluc.
> End.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [LISTING FOUR]
> 
> Algorithm D in 32-bit Intel assmbler
> Author: Christopher T. Skinner
> Short version of Mod32.Txt with scalings just as comments
>                Modulus routine for Large Integers
>                         u = u Mod v
> Based on:
> D.E.Knuth  The Art of Computer Programming
>            Vol 2 Semi-Numerical Algorithms 2ed 1981
>            Algorithm D page 257
> We use a Pascal Type called "har" ( for "hexadecimal array")
> Type
>             har = Array[0..255] of byte ;
> Var         u,v : har ;
> Note that u[0] is the length of u and that the
> integer begins in u[1]
> It is desirable that u[1] is on a double word boundary.
> 
> ; Turbo Pascal Usage:      ( Turbo Pascal v6.0)
> ; {$L Mod32a}   { contains mod32 far }
> ; {$F+}   { far pointers }
> ; procedure Mod32 ( var u,v : har ) ;
> ; Turbo Assembler code: (TASM v2.01)--requires 32-bit chip ie 386 or 486
> ; nb FS and GS can be used as temporary storage. Don't try to use them as
> ; segment registers because Windows 3.0 restricts their allowed range, even
> ; after you have finished out of Windows. You will hang for sure, unless you
> ; have used a well-behaved protected-mode program to reset them, or cold boot.
> 
> Data    Segment Word Public Use16
>     vdz     dw ?        ; size  v    words
>     va  dd ?            ;     hi dword v
>     vb  dd ?            ; 2nd     "    v
>     vi  dw ?        ; ^v[1]
>         savdi   dw ?            ; used in addback
> Data    EndS
> 
> Code    Segment Word Public  Use16
>     Assume  cs:Code, ds:Data ,es:Nothing
>         Public  mod32
> ; Pascal Parameters:
> u   Equ DWord Ptr ss:[bp+10]      ; Parameter 1 of 2   (far)
> v       Equ DWord Ptr ss:[bp+ 6]      ; parameter 2 of 2
> uof     equ word ptr  ss:[bp+10]
> vinof   equ word ptr  ss:[bp+ 6]
> 
> mod32   Proc    far
>     push bp
>     mov  bp,sp
>         push di
>         push si
>         push ds          ; save the DS
> 
>         ; Before using Mod32 check that:
>         ;     v > 0
>         ;     v < u         u <= 125 words
>         ;     v[0] is a multiple of 4   and at least 8
>         ;     v[top] >= 80h           (may need to scale u & v)
>         ;     make u[0] = 0 Mod 4     (add 1..3 if required)
> domod:
>         ; now point to our v
>         mov ax,seg v
>         mov ds,ax
>         assume ds:Data
>         mov si, offset v
>         cld
>         assume es:Nothing
>     xor ah,ah
>     mov al,es:[di]   ; ax = size of u in bytes    "uz"
>     mov cx,ax        ; cx = uz
>     mov bx,ax        ; bx = uz
>     mov al,[si]
>     mov dx,ax    ; dx  = size v bytes
>     shr ax,2
>     mov vdz,ax   ; vdz    "     dwords   vz = 0 mod 4
>     sub bx,dx        ; bx = uz - vz  difference in bytes
>     mov ax,bx        ; ax = uz - vz
>     sub ax,3     ; ax = uz - vz - 3     ->  gs
>     sub cx,3     ; cx =  uz - 3
>     add cx,di        ; cx = ^top dword u
>     add ax,di
>     mov gs,ax    ; gs = ^(uz-vz-3)  u start   (by -4  down to 1)
>         inc di
>         mov fs,di    ; fs = uf = ^u[1] , end point
>     inc si
>     mov vi,si    ; vi = ^v[1]
>     add si,dx
>     mov eax,[si-4]
>     mov va,eax   ;  va = high word of v
>     mov eax,[si-8]
>     mov vb,eax       ;  vb = 2nd highest word v
>     mov di,cx    ; set di to ut , as at bottom of loop
> d3:
>     mov edx,es:[di]  ; dx is current high dword of u
>     sub di,4
>         mov eax,es:[di]  ; ax is current 2nd highest dword of u
>     mov ecx,va
>     cmp edx,ecx
>     jae  aa          ; if high word u is 0 , never greater than
>     div ecx      ;          mov ebx,eax
>         mov esi,edx  ; si = rh
>     jmp short ad     ; Normal route -- -- -- -- -->
> aa:     mov eax,0FFFFFFFFh
>     mov edx,es:[di]  ; 2nd highest wrd u
>     jmp short ac
> ab: mov eax,ebx      ; q2
>     dec eax
>     mov edx,esi      ;  rh
> ac: mov ebx,eax      ; q3
>     add edx,ecx
>     jc d4        ; Knuth tests overflow,
>     mov esi,edx
> ; normal route:
>  ad:
>         mul vb       ; Quotient by 2nd digit of divisor
>     cmp edx,esi  ; high word of product : remainder
>     jb  d4           ; no correction to quot, drop thru to mulsub
>         ja  ab           ; nb unsigned use ja/b not jg/l
>     cmp eax,es:[di-4] ; low word of product : 3rd high of u
>     ja  ab
> d4:          ; Multiply & subtract * * * * * * *
>     mov cx,gs
>     mov di,cx    ; low start pos in u for subtraction of q * v
>         sub cx,4
>         mov gs,cx
>         xor ecx,ecx
>     Mov  cx,vdz  ; word count for q * v
>         mov  si,vi   ; si points to v[1]
>         xor ebp,ebp      ; carry 14Oct90 bp had problems in mu-lp
>         even
> ;    ** ** ** ** **  **  **  **
> ba:     lodsd        ; eax <- ds[si]
>     mul ebx      ; dx:ax contains product   carry set if dx > 0
>         add eax,ebp
>         adc edx,0
>     sub es:[di],eax
>         adc edx,0
>         mov ebp,edx
>         add di,4
>     loop ba      ; dec cx , jmp if not 0
> ; .. .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. . . ..
>         sub es:[di],edx
>         jnc d7
> 
>     mov si,vi    ;  add back (rare)
>         mov savdi,di
>     mov di,gs
>         add di,4
>     clc
>     mov cx,vdz
> bb:     lodsd        ; eax = ds[si]   si + 2
>     adc es:[di],eax
>         inc di
>         inc di
>         inc di
>         inc di
>         loop bb
>         xor eax,eax
>         mov es:[di],eax
>         mov di,savdi
>         ; test with:
>         ; 1,00000000,00000000,00000001/ 80000000,00000000,00000001
> d7:
>     mov bx,fs     ; fs ^u[1]
>         mov ax,gs     ; gs = current u start position
>     cmp ax,bx     ; current - bottom
>     jb d8
>         sub di,4
>     jmp d3
> d8:
> ; here we would scale u down if it had been scaled up
> quex:                 ; quick exit if v < u
>         cld              ; just in case
>         pop ds
>         pop si
>         pop di
>         pop bp
>     ret 8       ; 2 pointers = 4 words = 8 bytes
> mod32   EndP        ;
> Code    Ends
>     End
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [LISTING FIVE]
> 
> Algorithm D in 16-bit Intel assembler
> Author: Christopher T. Skinner
>    mod16.txt 21 Au8 92     16 bit modulus
> ; divm  Modulus
> Data    Segment Word Public
>     vwz     dw ?        ; size  v    words
>     va  dw ?            ;     hi word v
>     vb  dw ?            ; 2nd    "    v
>     vi  dw ?        ; ^v[1]
>     uf  dw ?        ; ^u[3]
>     uz  dw ?            ; size u byte
>     vz  dw ?             ;   "   v  "
>     ua      dw ?        ; ^( u[0] + uz - vz -1 ) , mul sub start
>     ut  dw ?            ; ^ u[topword]
>     qh      dw ?
>     uzofs   dw ?        ; ttt
>     vzofs   dw ?        ; ttt
> Data    EndS
> Code    Segment Word Public
>     Assume  cs:Code, ds:Data
>         Public  diva
> 
> u   Equ DWord Ptr [bp+10]       ; ES:DI
> v       Equ DWord Ptr [bp+6]        ; DS:SI
>     ; NB v Must be Global, DS based...
> diva    Proc    far
>     push bp
>     mov  bp,sp
>         push ds
>     cld     ; increment lodsw in mulsub
>     lds si,v
>         les di,u
>     xor ah,ah
>     mov al,es:[di]  ; ax = uz size of u in bytes N.B. uz is not actually used
>     mov cx,ax       ; cx = uz
>     mov bx,ax       ; bx = uz
>     mov al,ds:[si]
>     mov dx,ax   ; dx  = size v bytes
>     shr ax,1
>     mov vwz,ax  ; vwz    "     words
>     sub bx,dx       ; bx = uz - vz  difference in bytes
>     mov ax,bx       ; ax = uz - vz
>     dec ax      ; ax = uz - vz - 1     ->  ua
>     dec cx      ; cx =  uz - 1
>     add cx,di       ; cx = ^top word u
>     mov ut,cx   ; ut = ^top word u
>     add ax,di
>     mov ua,ax   ; ua = ^(uz-vz-1)  u start   (by -2  down to 1)
>         inc di
>     mov uf,di   ; uf = ^u[1] , end point
>     inc si
>     mov vi,si   ; vi = ^v[1]
>     add si,dx
>     mov ax,ds:[si-2]
>     mov va,ax   ;  va = high word of v
>     mov ax,ds:[si-4]
>     mov vb,ax       ;  vb = 2nd highest word v
>     mov di,cx   ; set di to ut , as at bottom of loop
> d3:
>     mov dx,es:[di]          ; dx is current high word of u
>     dec di
>     dec di
>     mov ut,di
>         mov ax,es:[di]        ; ax is current 2nd highest word of u
>     mov cx,va
>     cmp dx,cx
>     jae  aa   ;if high word u is 0 , never greater than
>     div cx          ;
>         mov qh,ax
>         mov si,dx       ; si = rh
>     jmp ad          ; Normal route -- -- -- -- -->
> aa:     mov ax,0FFFFh
>     mov dx,es:[di]      ; 2nd highest wrd u
>     jmp ac
> ab: mov ax,qh
>     dec ax
>     mov dx,si       ;  rh
> ac: mov qh,ax
>     add dx,cx
>     jc d4           ; Knuth tests overflow,
>     mov si,dx
> ad:     mul vb          ; Quotient by 2nd digit of divisor
>     cmp dx,si       ; high word of product : remainder
>     jb  d4          ; no correction to quot, drop thru to mulsub
>         ja  ab          ; nb unsigned use ja/b not jg/l
>     cmp ax,es:[di-2]    ; low word of product : 3rd high of u
>     ja  ab
> d4:         ; Multiply & subtract * * * * * * *
>     mov bx,ua
>     mov di,bx   ; low start pos in u for subtraction of q * v
>     dec bx
>     dec bx      ;
>     mov ua,bx
>     Mov  cx,vwz ; word count for q * v
>         mov  si,vi  ; si points to v[1]
>     mov bx,qh
>         xor bp,bp
> ;    ** ** ** ** **  **  **  **
> ba:     lodsw       ; ax <- ds[si]   si + 2  preserve carry over mul ?
>     mul bx      ; dx:ax contains product   carry set if dx > 0
>     add dx,bp
>         xor bp,bp
>     sub es:[di],ax
>     inc di
>     inc di
>     sbb es:[di],dx
>     rcl bp,1
>     loop ba     ; dec cx , jmp if not 0
> ; .. .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. . . ..
>         rcr bp,1
>         jnc d7
> 
>     mov si,vi   ;  add back (rare)
>     mov di,ua
>        inc di
>     inc di
>     clc
>     mov cx,vwz
> bb:    lodsw        ; ax = ds[si]   si + 2
>     adc es:[di],ax
>     inc di
>     inc di
>     loop bb
>     mov cx,ut
>     add cx,4
>     sub cx,di
>     shr cx,1        ; word length of u
> bc:    mov Word Ptr es:[di],0
>        inc di
>     inc di
>        loop bc  ;
>     dec di      ;
>     dec di      ;
>     clc
> d7:
>     mov ax,uf
>     cmp ua,ax
>     jb d8
>     dec di      ; New these are suspicious, with an add back and a
>     dec di      ; New
>     jmp d3
> d8:
>              cld   ; just in case
>        pop ds
>     pop bp
>     ret 8       ; 2 pointers = 4 words = 8 bytes ???
> diva    EndP        ;
> Code    Ends
>     End
> 
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    Copyright © 1998, Dr. Dobb's Journal
>    Dr. Dobb's Web Site Home Page -- Top of This Page
>    
> 






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 17:28:45 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:28:45 +0800
Subject: RB_Fermat.html
Message-ID: <199801110153.TAA15325@einstein.ssz.com>



                        PIERRE DE FERMAT (1601 - 1665)
                                       
   
   
   From `A Short Account of the History of Mathematics' (4th edition,
   1908) by W. W. Rouse Ball.
   
   While Descartes was laying the foundations of analytical geometry, the
   same subject was occupying the attention of another and not less
   distinguished Frenchman. This was Fermat. Pierre de Fermat, who was
   born near Montauban in 1601, and died at Castres on January 12, 1665,
   was the son of a leather-merchant; he was educated at home; in 1631 he
   obtained the post of councillor for the local parliament at Toulouse,
   and he discharged the duties of the office with scrupulous accuracy
   and fidelity. There, devoting most of his leisure to mathematics, he
   spent the remainder of his life - a life which, but for a somewhat
   acrimonious dispute with Descartes on the validity of certain analysis
   used by the latter, was unruffled by any event which calls for special
   notice. The dispute was chiefly due to the obscurity of Descartes, but
   the tact and courtesy of Fermat brought it to a friendly conclusion.
   Fermat was a good scholar, and amused himself by conjecturally
   restoring the work of Apollonius on plane loci.
   
   Except a few isolated papers, Fermat published nothing in his
   lifetime, and gave no systematic exposition of his methods. Some of
   the most striking of his results were found after his death on loose
   sheets of paper or written in the margins of works which he had read
   and annotated, and are unaccompanied by any proof. It is thus somewhat
   difficult to estimate the dates and originality of his work. He was
   constitutionally modest and retiring, and does not seem to have
   intended his papers to be published. It is probable that he revised
   his notes as occasion required, and that his published works represent
   the final form of his researches, and therefore cannot be dated much
   earlier than 1660. I shall consider separately (i) his investigations
   in the theory of numbers; (ii) his use in geometry of analysis and of
   infinitesimals; and (iii) his method for treating questions of
   probability.
   
   (i) The theory of numbers appears to have been the favourite study of
   Fermat. He prepared an edition of Diophantus, and the notes and
   comments thereon contain numerous theorems of considerable elegance.
   Most of the proofs of Fermat are lost, and it is possible that some of
   them were not rigorous - an induction by analogy and the intuition of
   genius sufficing to lead him to correct results. The following
   examples will illustrate these investigations.
   
   (a) If p be a prime and a be prime to p then a^(p-1) - 1 � is
   divisible by p, that is, a^(p-1) - 1 \equiv 0 � (mod p). A proof of
   this, first given by Euler, is well known. A more general theorem is
   that a^(\phi(n)) - 1 \equiv 0 (mod n) � (mod n), where a is prime to n
   and \phi(n) � is the number of integers less than n and prime to it.
   
   (b) An odd prime can be expressed as the difference of two square
   integers in one and only one way. Fermat's proof is as follows. Let n
   be the prime, and suppose it equal to x� - y�, that is, to (x + y)(x -
   y). Now, by hypothesis, the only integral factors of n are n and
   unity, hence x + y = n and x - y = 1. Solving these equations we get x
   = � (n + 1) and y = � (n - 1).
   
   (c) He gave a proof of the statement made by Diophantus that the sum
   of the squares of two integers cannot be of the form 4n - 1; and he
   added a corollary which I take to mean that it is impossible that the
   product of a square and a prime of the form 4n - 1 [even if multiplied
   by a number prime to the latter], can be either a square or the sum of
   two squares. For example, 44 is a multiple of 11 (which is of the form
   4 � 3 - 1) by 4, hence it cannot be expressed as the sum of two
   squares. He also stated that a number of the form a� + b�, where a is
   prime to b, cannot be divided by a prime of the form 4n - 1.
   
   (d) Every prime of the form 4n + 1 is expressible, and that in one way
   only, as the sum of two squares. This problem was first solved by
   Euler, who shewed that a number of the form 2^m (4n + 1) can be always
   expressed as the sum of two squares.
   
   (e) If a, b, c, be integers, such that a� + b� = c�, then ab cannot be
   a square. Lagrange gave a solution of this.
   
   (f) The determination of a number x such that x�n + 1 may be a square,
   where n is a given integer which is not a square. Lagrange gave a
   solution of this.
   
   (g) There is only one integral solution of the equation x� + 2 = y�;
   and there are only two integral solutions of the equation x� + 4 = y�.
   The required solutions are evidently for the first equation x = 5, and
   for the second equation x = 2 and x = 11. This question was issued as
   a challenge to the English mathematicians Wallis and Digby.
   
   (h) No integral values of x, y, z can be found to satisfy the equation
   x^n + y^n = z^n ; if n be an integer greater than 2. This proposition
   has acquired extraordinary celebrity from the fact that no general
   demonstration of it has been given, but there is no reason to doubt
   that it is true.
   
   Probably Fermat discovered its truth first for the case n = 3, and
   then for the case n = 4. His proof for the former of these cases is
   lost, but that for the latter is extant, and a similar proof for the
   case of n = 3 was given by Euler. These proofs depend on shewing that,
   if three integral values of x, y, z can be found which satisfy the
   equation, then it will be possible to find three other and smaller
   integers which also satisfy it: in this way, finally, we shew that the
   equation must be satisfied by three values which obviously do not
   satisfy it. Thus no integral solution is possible. It would seem that
   this method is inapplicable to any cases except those of n = 3 and n =
   4.
   
   Fermat's discovery of the general theorem was made later. A proof can
   be given on the assumption that a number can be resolved into the
   product of powers of primes in one and only one way. The assumption
   has been made by some writers; it is true of real numbers, but it is
   not necessarily true of every complex number. It is possible that
   Fermat made some erroneous supposition, but, on the whole, it seems
   more likely that he discovered a rigorous demonstration.
   
   In 1823 Legendre obtained a proof for the case of n = 5; in 1832
   Lejeune Dirichlet gave one for n = 14, and in 1840 Lam� and Lebesgue
   gave proofs for n = 7. The proposition appears to be true universally,
   and in 1849 Kummer, by means of ideal primes, proved it to be so for
   all numbers except those (if any) which satisfy three conditions. It
   is not certain whether any number can be found to satisfy these
   conditions, but there is no number less than 100 which does so. The
   proof is complicated and difficult, and there can be no doubt is based
   on considerations unknown to Fermat. I may add that, to prove the
   truth of the proposition, when n is greater than 4 obviously it is
   sufficient to confine ourselves to cases when n is a prime, and the
   first step in Kummer's demonstration is to shew that one of the
   numbers x, y, z must be divisible by n.
   
   The following extracts, from a letter now in the university library at
   Leyden, will give an idea of Fermat's methods; the letter is undated,
   but it would appear that, at the time Fermat wrote it, he had proved
   the proposition (h) above only for the case when n = 3.
   
     Je ne m'en servis au commencement qe pour demontrer les propositions
     negatives, comme par exemple, qu'il n'y a aucu nombre moindre de
     l'unit� qu'un multiple de 3 qui soit compos� d'un quarr� et du
     triple d'un autre quarr�. Qu'il n'y a aucun triangle rectangle de
     nombres dont l'aire soit un nombre quarr�. La preuve se fait par
     apagogeen � en cette mani�re. S'il y auoit aucun triangle rectangle
     en nombres entiers, qui eust son aire esgale � un quarr�, il y
     auroit un autre triangle moindre que celuy la qui auroit la mesme
     propriet�. S'il y en auoit un second moindre que le premier qui eust
     la mesme propriet� il y en auroit par un pareil raisonnement un
     troisieme moindre que ce second qui auroit la mesme propriet� et
     enfin un quatrieme, un cinquieme etc. a l'infini en descendant. Or
     est il qu'estant donn� un nombre il n'y en a point infinis en
     descendant moindres que celuy la, j'entens parler tousjours des
     nombres entiers. D'ou on conclud qu'il est donc impossible qu'il y
     ait aucun triangle rectange dont l'aire soit quarr�. Vide foliu post
     sequens....
     
     Je fus longtemps sans pouvour appliquer ma methode aux questions
     affirmatives, parce que le tour et le biais pour y venir est
     beaucoup plus malais� que celuy dont je me sers aux negatives. De
     sorte que lors qu'il me falut demonstrer que tout nombre premier qui
     surpasse de l'unit� un multiple de 4, est compos� de deux quarrez je
     me treuvay en belle peine. Mais enfin une meditation diverses fois
     reiter�e me donna les lumieres qui me manquoient. Et les questions
     affirmatives passerent par ma methods a l'ayde de quelques nouveaux
     principes qu'il y fallust joindre par necessit�. Ce progres de mon
     raisonnement en ces questions affirmatives estoit tel. Si un nombre
     premier pris a discretion qui surpasse de l'unit� un multiple de 4
     n'est point compos� de deux quarrez il y aura un nombre premier de
     mesme nature moindre que le donn�; et ensuite un troisieme encore
     moindre, etc. en descendant a l'infini jusques a ce que vous
     arriviez au nombre 5, qui est le moindre de tous ceux de cette
     nature, lequel il s'en suivroit n'estre pas compos� de deux quarrez,
     ce qu'il est pourtant d'ou on doit inferer par la deduction a
     l'impossible que tous ceux de cette nature sont par consequent
     composez de 2 quarrez.
     
     Il y a infinies questions de cette espece. Mais il y en a quelques
     autres que demandent de nouveaux principes pour y appliquer la
     descente, et la recherche en est quelques fois si mal ais�e, qu'on
     n'y peut venir qu'avec une peine extreme. Telle est la question
     suivante que Bachet sur Diophante avo�e n'avoir jamais peu
     demonstrer, sur le suject de laquelle Mr. Descartes fait dans une de
     ses lettres la mesme declaration, jusques la qu'il confesse qu'il la
     juge si difficile, qu'il ne voit point de voye pour la resoudre.
     Tout nombre est quarr�, ou compos� de deux, de trois, ou de quatre
     quarrez. Je l'ay enfin rang�e sous ma methode et je demonstre que si
     un nombre donn� n'estoit point de cette nature il y en auroit un
     moindre que ne le seroit par non plus, puis un troisieme moindre que
     le second etc. a l'infini, d'ou l'on infere que tous les nombres
     sont de cette nature....
     
     J'ay ensuit consider� questions que bien que negatives ne restent
     pas de recevoir tres-grande difficult�, la methods pour y pratiquer
     la descente estant tout a fait diverse des precedentes comme il sera
     ais� d'espouver. Telles sont les suivantes. Il n'y a aucun cube
     divisible en deux cubes. Il n'y a qu'un seul quarr� en entiers que
     augment� du binaire fasse un cube, ledit quarr� est 25. Il n'y a que
     deux quarrez en entiers lesquels augment�s de 4 fassent cube,
     lesdits quarrez sont 4 et 121....
     
     Apres avoir couru toutes ces questions la plupart de diverses (sic)
     nature et de differente fa�on de demonstrer, j'ay pass� a
     l'invention des regles generales pour resoudre les equations simples
     et doubles de Diophante. On propose par exemple 2 quarr. + 7957
     esgaux a un quarr� (hoc est 2xx + 7967 \propto � quadr.) J'ay une
     regle generale pour resoudre cette equation si elle est possible, on
     decouvrir son impossibilit�. Et ainsi en tous les cas et en tous
     nombres tant des quarrez que des unitez. On propose cette equation
     double 2x + 3 et 3x + 5 esgaux chaucon a un quarr�. Bachet se
     glorifie en ses commentaires sur Diophante d'avoir trouv� une regle
     en deux cas particuliers. Je me donne generale en toute sorte de
     cas. Et determine par regle si elle est possible ou non....
     
     Voila sommairement le conte de mes recherches sur le sujet des
     nombres. Je ne l'ay escrit que parce que j'apprehende que le loisir
     d'estendre et de mettre au long toutes ces demonstrations et ces
     methodes me manquera. En tout cas cette indication seruira aux
     s�auants pour trouver d'eux mesmes ce que je n'estens point,
     principlement si Mr. de Carcaui et Frenicle leur font part de
     quelques demonstrations par la descente que je leur ay envoyees sur
     le suject de quelques propositions negatives. Et peut estre la
     posterit� me scaure gr� de luy avoir fait connoistre que les anciens
     n'ont pas tout sceu, et cette relation pourra passer dans l'esprit
     de ceux qui viendront apres moy pour traditio lampadis ad filios,
     comme parle le grand Chancelier d'Angleterre, suivant le sentiment
     et la devise duquel j'adjousteray, multi pertransibunt et augebitur
     scientia.
     
   
   
   (ii) I next proceed to mention Fermat's use in geometry of analysis
   and of infinitesimals. It would seem from his correspondence that he
   had thought out the principles of analytical geometry for himself
   before reading Descartes's G�om�trie, and had realised that from the
   equation, or, as he calls it, the ``specific property,'' of a curve
   all its properties could be deduced. His extant papers on geometry
   deal, however, mainly with the application of infinitesimals to the
   determination of the tangents to curves, to the quadrature of curves,
   and to questions of maxima and minima; probably these papers are a
   revision of his original manuscripts (which he destroyed), and were
   written about 1663, but there is no doubt that he was in possession of
   the general idea of his method for finding maxima and minima as early
   as 1628 or 1629.
   
   He obtained the subtangent to the ellipse, cycloid, cissoid, conchoid,
   and quadratrix by making the ordinates of the curve and a straight
   line the same for two points whose abscissae were x and x - e; but
   there is nothing to indicate that he was aware that the process was
   general, it is probable that he never separated it, so to speak, from
   the symbols of the particular problem he was considering. The first
   definite statement of the method was due to Barrow, and was published
   in 1669.
   
   Fermat also obtained the areas of parabolas and hyperbolas of any
   order, and determined the centres of mass of a few simple laminae and
   of a paraboloid of revolution. As an example of his method of solving
   these questions I will quote his solution of the problem to find the
   area between the parabola y� = p x�, the axis of x, and the line x =
   a. He says that, if the several ordinates of the points for which x
   is equal to a, a(1 - e), a(1 - e)�,... be drawn, then the area will be
   split into a number of little rectangles whose areas are respectively
   
     ae(pa^2)^(1/3), ae(1-e) ( pa^2(1-e)^2 )^(1/3),... .
     
   The sum of these is p^(1/3) a^(5/3) e / ( 1 - (1 - e)^(5/3) ) ; and by
   a subsidiary proposition (for he was not acquainted with the binomial
   theorem) he finds the limit of this, when e vanishes, to be (3/5)
   p^(1/3) a^(5/3) . The theorems last mentioned were published only
   after his death; and probably they were not written till after he had
   read the works of Cavalieri and Wallis.
   
   Kepler had remarked that the values of a function immediately adjacent
   to and on either side of a maximum (or minimum) value must be equal.
   Fermat applied this principle to a few examples. Thus, to find the
   maximum value of x(a - x), his method is essentially equivalent to
   taking a consecutive value of x, namely x - e where e is very small,
   and putting x(a - x) = (x - e)(a - x + e). Simplifying, and ultimately
   putting e = 0, we get x = �. This value of x makes the given
   expression a maximum.
   
   (iii) Fermat must share with Pascal the honour of having founded the
   theory of probabilities. I have already mentioned the problem proposed
   to Pascal, and which he communicated to Fermat, and have there given
   Pascal's solution. Fermat's solution depends on the theory of
   combinations, and will be sufficiently illustrated by the following
   example, the substance of which is taken from a letter dated August
   24, 1654, which occurs in the correspondence with Pascal. Fermat
   discusses the case of two players, A and B, where A wants two points
   to win and B three points. Then the game will be certainly decided in
   the course of four trials. Take the letters a and b, and write down
   all the combinations that can be formed of four letters. These
   combinations are 16 in number, namely, aaaa, aaab, aaba, aabb; abaa,
   abab, abba, abbb; baaa, baab, baba, babb; bbaa, bbab, bbba, bbbb. Now
   every combination in which a occurs twice or oftener represents a case
   favourable to A, and every combination in which b occurs three times
   or oftener represents a case favourable to B. Thus, on counting them,
   it will be found that there are 11 cases favourable to A, and 5 cases
   favourable to B; and since these cases are all equally likely, A's
   chance of winning the game is to B's chance as 11 is to 5.
   
   The only other problem on this subject which, as far as I know,
   attracted the attention of Fermat was also proposed to him by Pascal,
   and was as follows. A person undertakes to throw a six with a die in
   eight throws; supposing him to have made three throws without success,
   what portion of the stake should he be allowed to take on condition of
   giving up his fourth throw? Fermat's reasoning is as follows. The
   chance of success is 1/6, so that he should be allowed to take 1/6 of
   the stake on condition of giving up his throw. But if we wish to
   estimate the value of the fourth throw before any throw is made, then
   the first throw is worth 1/6 of the stake; the second is worth 1/6 of
   what remains, that is 5/36 of the stake; the third throw is worth 1/6
   of what now remains, that is, 25/216 of the stake; the fourth throw is
   worth 1/6 of what now remains, that is, 125/1296 of the stake.
   
   Fermat does not seem to have carried the matter much further, but his
   correspondence with Pascal shows that his views on the fundamental
   principles of the subject were accurate: those of Pascal were not
   altogether correct.
   
   Fermat's reputation is quite unique in the history of science. The
   problems on numbers which he had proposed long defied all efforts to
   solve them, and many of them yielded only to the skill of Euler. One
   still remains unsolved. This extraordinary achievement has
   overshadowed his other work, but in fact it is all of the highest
   order of excellence, and we can only regret that he thought fit to
   write so little.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   
   
   This page is included in a collection of mathematical biographies
   taken from A Short Account of the History of Mathematics by W. W.
   Rouse Ball (4th Edition, 1908).
   
   Transcribed by
   
   
    D.R. Wilkins
    (dwilkins at maths.tcd.ie)
    School of Mathematics
    Trinity College, Dublin






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 18:05:34 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:05:34 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801110229.UAA15382@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:51:05 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality

> Doesn't matter how the establishment (whatever that might be) looked on him
> or not...you challenged me to name _one_ example, and I named several. Oh,
> and it is not true as you later claim that all of my examples "eventually
> published" all of their findings. Fermat did not, Gauss did not.

Gauss and Fermat both published or shared their works with others
contemporaries as demonstrated via their short biographies that I submitted
to the list.

> My main point has been to refute your notion that any one who elects not to
> publish in the open literature cannot be a scientist. I know of many
> scientists who could not publish, or chose not to for various reasons.

If one doesn't publish (which in the scientific sense means to share
publicly ones discoveries, *not* necessarily in open literature - which is a
constraint you have never implied before now - changing the rules in the
middle of the game are we...and while you go ballistic - when Gauss and
Fermat were alive there were no magazines, work was published via
demonstrations, books or by letters shared between co-workers) then be so
kind as to explain how anyone would find out about the work in the first
place, divine intervention?

> I mentioned the Manhattan Project scientists. (Choate made some bizarre
> claim after this mention that all of the science was known in the 20 and
> 30s, and that no actual science was done by MP "engineers" and
> "technicians." Might be a surprise to Ulam, Teller, von Neumann, and all
> the others who worked in secrecy on the atom bomb, then the hydrogen bomb,
> and so on.)

What Ulam, Teller, Von Neumann did regarding actualy making the devices;
such as the work on explosive lenses; was *engineering or technology* it
wasn't science. Science as was extant at the time was quite capable of
describing what needed to be done, the question was how to build the damn
thing. THAT question is technological not scientific. Furher, at *no* time
did I imply that those working on the bomb simply quite working on the
theoretical issues that were still unanswered. The reality is, as my
original claim, that the process *required both*. However, taking this to
the extreme, as you are want to do, of equating them is a disservice to
their achievements and the endeavors of science and engineering.

Further, if you had done one whit of research on the Manhatten Project you
would have found that the *primary* issue for most of the scientist was that
the military wouldn't allow them to *share their work*. In many of the
letters, depositions, minutes of meetings, etc. there are continous and
heated discussion on how the secrecy impacted negatively the process of
meeting their goals. Ulam, Teller, Von Neumann, et ali. would be the *first*
to refute your claim.

> Oh, and what of all the many fine Russian scientists of this century,
> nearly all restricted in what they could publish? Because they could not
> submit their work to open publication were they not doing science?

And very little of what they didn't publish outside of the CCCP made a big
difference to what others were doing. As a matter of fact, because of this
many of the Russian scientists are reaping the rewards by being passed over
for Nobels and other such rewards for sharing their work. A very clear
result of this policy in the CCCP was the technological 2nd class that
resulted in just about every aspect of Soviet science and engineering
outside of some very esoteric and theoretical work. A primary example of
*why* and *how* such secrecy *inhibits* rather than promotes science is a
study of Russian biological sciences. If you seriously claim that the policy
of state secrecy didn't inhibit russian science then be so kind as to
explain their clones of the Apple II or the IBM 360, which were truly
attrocious in their technology. Just look at the impact on China because of
these sorts of policies, it was in the late 1970's before they ever managed
to build a TTL equivalent quad-NAND gate, something that the western world
had been cranking out since the late 1960's. I got involved in computers and
electronics in 1969 *because* those self same 7400 chips were *dumped on the
surplus market*. Prey tell how we managed to create a technological millieu
that allows 9 year old kids to play with chips for pennies when a whole damn
country with a population in the billions can't manage to build and use till
nearly 10 years later? 

> The point being that open publication is only a part of the methodology of
> doing science, and a fairly recent one, too.

Malarky. If you simply review the history of science (something that is
becoming clear you haven't) and study some of these great luminaries works
you find that *critical* to all of them was *sharing* their work(s) with
others of a similar bent. Their biographies are replete with mentions of
letters, meetings, books, etc. they both supplied and received from others.

Back to Newton, he graduated in 1665 w/ a BA from Cambridge. Shortly before
this he had begun his experiments in light. He published these results in
'Philosophical Transactions' in 1672 and was elected a fellow of the Royal
Society the same year because of it. In 1687, at Halleys prompting to
abandon his chemical studies (he was an alchemist) and focus on mechanics,
he published 'Principia'. This same year is when he became involved in
politics which eventualy resulted in his appointment in 1689 to the
Convention Parliament of the university. In 1695 he was appointed the Warden
of the Mint. In 1727 he was appointed Master of the Mint, which he held
until his death. In 1703 he became the president of the Royal Society.
That same year he published 'Opticks'. In 1705 he was knighted. He also
wrote religous works, two of the best known were 'Observations of the
Prophecies of Daniel' and 'Church History'.

How in good faith you can claim this doesn't qualify as sharing their work
and that such sharing isn't critical to advancement is truly revealing.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 18:27:46 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:27:46 +0800
Subject: More on Fermat...
Message-ID: <199801110252.UAA15458@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

Given Tim May's assertion that publishing is not critical to the advancement
of science *and* that Fermat is a prime example of this I would like to
examine it.

Let's ignore the references to Fermat's letters and such to Pascal,
Descarte, and others. Let's take as a given that Fermat's work was not
published. When he died the executors found the material and decided to
publish it (we'll ignore their motives for a moment). The result was a
global 'aha' for mathematicians. A collective "Ah, so THAT's how you do
that."

Since it is clear that had Fermat's work *not* been published those self
same problems would have remained unsolved, perhaps some as long as his Last
Theorem which stands as a prime example of the result of *not* publishing or
noting results, perhaps some even till today. It is clear that the initial
hypothesis that publishing (or sharing) of work is not critical is clearly
incorrect by the very example it holds to prove itself.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From vznuri at netcom.com  Sat Jan 10 19:03:19 1998
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:03:19 +0800
Subject: area 51, enviro crime, secrecy==abuse?
Message-ID: <199801110257.SAA20519@netcom13.netcom.com>





Environment of Secrecy

A lawsuit alleges environmental crimes
at the country's most secret military base    

Amicus Journal, Spring 1997,
a publication of the National 
Resources Defense Council

by Malcom Howard
    
    August, 1994: Standing atop a
    desert ridge in central Nevada,
    Glenn Campbell peers through
    binoculars at a remote duster of
    buildings in the valley below. "It's
    the most famous secret
    militaryfacility in the world," he
    says. The scattering of airplane
    hangars and radar dishes below,
    barely visible through the haze, is a
    secluded Air Force test facility
    known as Area 51-- or, more
    fancifully, "Dreamland"-- that is
    believed to have launched the most
    sophisticated Cold War aircraft,
    from supersonic spy planes to the
    radar-evading Stealth bomber.
    
    Campbell has made a mini-industry 
    of showing off this
    clandestine outpost, built on a
    barren pancake of alkali just inside
    the Air Force's restricted Nellis
    Gunnery Range north of Las Vegas.
    His self-published tour book
    describes how to get a stealthy,
    yet fully legal, view of Area 51.
    Tourists pass electronic sensors on
    the road and watch helicopters
    patrol above, and are tailed by men
    in unmarked white jeeps
    who train high-powered video
    cameras on their every move. Though
    Campbell's tour stays entirely on
    public land, once on the ridge his
    clients stand only yards from the
    Area 51 boundary. Signs
    prohibiting photography and warn
    that "use of deadlyforce" is
    authorized against trespassers.
    
    These days, Glenn Campbell's
    not-for-profit tour business
    has fallen on hard times. In
    1995, the Air Force all but
    shut him down: it seized the
    4,500 acres of public land where
    Campbell's customers used to get
    their best views. The move
    demonstrates just how touchy the Air
    Force is about this military sanctum
    sanctorum-- since, in order to close
    out a few ragtag sightseers, it
    inevitably whipped up a storm of
    speculation among the conspiracy
    buffs, tabloid press, UFO trackers,
    aviation hounds, and government
    accountability activists who are
    fascinated by Dreamland.
    
    One can only imagine, then, the
    consternation in the upper ranks of
    the Air Force when four former Area
    51 employees and widows of two
    others brought their now celebrated
    lawsuit, alleging that the secrecy
    surrounding the site had been used
    to commit and then cover up
    environmental crimes.
    
    "My husband came home one day
    screaming," says Helen Frost, whose
    late husband, Robert, was a sheet-
    metal worker at Area 51. "He was
    screaming, 'My face is on fire.' His
    face was bright red and swollen up
    like a basketball. Then he got three-
    inch scars on his back. A year later,
    he died." In 1990, the year after
    Frost's death, a posthumous worker's
    compensation hearing found that the
    liver disease that killed him stemmed
    from heavy drinking, not toxic
    industrial chemicals. But Helen Frost
    disputes that finding. She points to
    testimony from a Rutgers University
    chemist who found high levels of
    dioxins and dibenzofurans in her
    husband's tissue. Those extremely
    dangerous chemicals, wrote Dr. Peter
    Kahn-- best known for his role in the
    Agent Orange commission-- were
    likely the result of industrial
    exposure.
    
    Helen Frost and her co-plaintiffs
    filed the original lawsuit in 1994,
    alleging that the military and its
    contractors regularly and
    illegally burned huge volumes of toxic
    waste in the desert, exposing workers
    to dangerous fumes. Defense
    contractors from the Los Angeles
    area, they claimed, routinely trucked
    55-gallon drums full of paints and solvents
    into Area 51. Employees would dig
    large trenches, toss in the drums,
    spray on jet fuel, and finally light the
    toxic soup with a flare.
    
    The plaintiffs named the
    Department of Defense, the National
    Security Agency, and the Air Force
    in the suit, charging that they
    allowed the burning in violation of
    the Resource Conservation and
    Recovery Act (RCRA), the nation's
    keystone hazardous waste law. In a
    parallel suit, they charged the
    Environmental Protection Agency
    (EPA) with failing to inspect and
    monitor waste disposal at the facility,
    as RCRA requires. The plaintiffs have
    said that many other Area 51 workers
    are suffering from ailments similar to
    Frost's. They do not seek
    damages-- just information about
    what chemicals they were exposed
    to, help with their medical bills, and
    an end to the burning.
    
    The extreme secrecy shrouding Area
    51 has turned the lawsuit into
    something out of a Cold War spy
    novel, replete with sealed motions,
    confidential hearings, blacked-out
    docket sheets, and classified
    briefings. "We're in the rather
    unenviable position of suing a facility
    that doesn't exist, on behalf of
    workers who don't officially exist,"
    says Jonathan Turley, the George
    Washington University law professor
    who is representing the plaintiffs.
    
    The existence of the workers is
    fairly straightforward: because they
    took secrecy oaths in order to work
    at Dreamland, they fear recrimination
    for going to court, and so the judge
    has allowed them to sue
    anonymously. But the existence of
    Area 51 is more problematic. The
    base is absent from even the most
    detailed defense flight charts. Ask
    the Air Force communications office
    about the facility, and a spokesman
    will read from a script: "There is an
    operating location in the vicinity of
    Groom Dry Lake. Some specific
    activities conducted on the Nellis
    Range both past and present remain
    classified and can't be discussed."
    
    In court, the Air Force tactics
    have been just as convoluted. In the early
    days of the lawsuit, argued before
    U.S. District Court Judge Phillip M.
    Pro, much of the contention centered
    on the Air Force's refusal to name the
    place at issue. The plaintiffs have all
    sworn that they worked at a facility
    called "Area 51," and Turley has
    introduced evidence, such as his
    clients' employee-evaluation forms
    and various government documents,
    that refer to the site as "Area 51." Air
    Force lawyers, however, have said
    that naming the base would
    undermine national security, because
    enemy powers could make valuable
    inferences from any verified names.
    
    In response, the plaintiffs
    accused the Air Force of cynically
    invoking national security in order to
    wriggle out from under the evidence
    that illegal practices were going on at
    a place called "Area 51." After all,
    Turley argued in court, "If the
    defendants confirmed 'Area 51' is
    often used to identify this facility, a
    foreign power would be no more
    educated as to [the facility's] operations than
    their previous knowledge, derived in
    no small part by the defendants' own
    public statements."
    
    But the name of the facility was
    only the first of a barrage of secrecy
    arguments the plaintiffs have faced.
    Throughout pretrial proceedings, Air
    Force lawyers repeatedly invoked the
    military and state secrets privilege, a
    rarely used tenet of common law that
    allows the executive branch to
    withhold information from trial if its
    disclosure might jeopardize U.S.
    soldiers or diplomatic relations. To
    support the claim, Air Force
    Secretary Sheila Widnall submitted
    two afffidavits, one public and one
    for the judge's eyes only, in which
    she argued that any environmental
    review of the facility entered into the
    record could educate foreign powers
    about U.S. military technology.
    "Collection of information regarding
    air, water, and soil is a classic foreign
    intelligence practice because
    analysis of these samples can result
    in the identification of military
    operations and capabilities," Widnall
    wrote.
    
    Turley-- himself a former staff
    member of the National Security
    Agency-- believes that the Air Force
    is improperly using the military
    secrets privilege to hamstring his
    case. Most of the chemicals burned
    at Area 51, he says, were standard
    solvents, paints, and the Like that are
    found at any aircraft production
    facility. If sensitive data did emerge,
    such as traces of the chemicals used
    in the radar-blunting coat of the
    Stealth fighter, they could simply be
    stricken from the record.
    
    Whatever the case, so far the
    tactics of the Air Force have largely
    prevailed. True, the plaintiffs have
    changed the course of environmental
    policy at the base; because of their
    suit, the Justice Department has
    launched a criminal investigation
    into the charges on EPA's behalf,
    and EPA has conducted the first
    hazardous waste inventory of Area
    51.
    
    But that inventory remains off
    limits to the plaintiffs, even though
    RCRA requires EPA to make such
    documents public because Judge Pro
    ruled that the president could grant a
    special exemption for national
    security reasons. RCRA has always
    allowed a president to create this kind
    of exemption; what is unusual about
    this case is that the judge allowed a
    president to do so after allegations of
    environmental crime had already
    emerged. And the exemption was
    duly granted: late in 1995, President
    Clinton signed an executive order
    exempting Area 51 "from any Federal,
    State, interstate or local provision
    respecting ... hazardous waste
    disposal that would require the
    disclosure of classified information 
    ... to any unauthorized person."
    
    In the wake of the president's
    intervention, in the spring of 1996
    Judge Pro dismissed the main case
    against the Pentagon on national
    security grounds. Turley has
    appealed the ruling to the Ninth
    Circuit Court of Appeals. To date,
    the court has not issued a ruling.
    
    In some senses, the lawsuit is
    unique: there is only one Area 51.
    The military has dozens of other
    restricted bases where highly secret
    weapons tests are carried out-- but,
    to the best of any civilian's
    knowledge, all of these sites are
    already listed on EPA's dockets.
    Environmental information about
    standard military bases is freely
    available. In general, says NRDC
    nuclear arms expert Stan Norris, the
    Air Force's behavior in the Area 51
    case is "not representative of the
    Department of Defense. They're not
    naturally secretive in [the
    environmental] area." Compared to
    the environmental traditions of the
    Department of Energy-- which
    opened up information on its nuclear
    weapons production sites only after
    years of public pressure and
    lawsuits-- when it comes to the
    Department, Norris says, 
    "We're awash in information."

    But Turley and other students of
    military secrecy believe that at issue
    in the Area 51 case is a bedrock
    principle. "In the end, this case can
    be boiled down to one question,"
    says Turley  "Can the Department of
    Defense create secret enclaves that
    are essentially removed from all
    civilian laws and responsibilities?"
    
    Borrowed from English common
    law, the military and state secrets
    privilege is as old as the nation itself.
    Ever since Aaron Burr stood trial for
    treason in 1807, the executive branch
    has, from time to time, sought to
    block information in civil and criminal
    trials. In Burr's case, the government
    refused to release letters written by
    one of Thomas Jefferson's generals.
    The defendant swore the
    letters would clear his name, but
    federal lawyers argued that the
    private notes "might contain state
    secrets, which could not be divulged
    without endangering the national
    safety."
    
    The secrecy powers were used
    most heavily during the Cold War,
    when military and intelligence
    agencies sought to hide technology
    from the Soviets and protect
    eavesdropping methods used
    against civilian activists. The
    Dreamland litigation, however, marks
    the first time the military and state
    secrets privilege has been invoked in
    a civil suit over toxic waste. It
    represents a fundamental clash
    between the demands of national
    security, in which stealth is an asset,
    and the right of public scrutiny that
    is at the core of U.S. environmental
    laws.
    
    National security and
    environmental law scholars take a
    keen interest in the case. "It seems to
    me that specific details of weapons
    programs can properly be held
    secret," comments Kate Martin,
    director of the Center for National
    Security Studies, which litigated
    some of the key state secrets cases
    of the 1980s. "The question is, is
    secrecy being used as a way of 
    of avoiding accountability,
    compliance with environmental law,
    or worker-safety standards?"
    
    Others see such speculation as
    both paranoid and naive. "Just
    because the Soviet Union is no
    longer around doesn't mean we don't
    need to keep secrets," says Kathleen
    Buck, former Pentagon general
    counsel for President Reagan. She
    argues that, since President Clinton's
    defense review revealed continued
    threats of ballistic missile attack,
    nuclear proliferation, rogue states,
    and terrorist cells, secrecy is a
    strategic advantage the United States
    still needs.
    
    "But we have to make sure that in
    building up the national defense, we
    don't destroy the very thing we're
    trying to protect," objects Steve
    Dycus, professor of national security
    and environmental law at Vermont
    Law School. A victory for the Pentagon
    over Area 51, he believes, could
    frustrate EPA's efforts to enforce
    environmental laws at sensitive
    military sites-- and the Pentagon,
    with more than a hundred active
    Superfund sites, is considered by
    many to be among America's worst
    polluters. Moreover, a military
    victory could have a chilling effect
    on other military employees who find
    themselves considering the difficult
    act of whistleblowing. After all,
    Dycus notes, RCRA is designed in
    part to enlist the help of citizens and
    states in enforcing environmental
    protection.
    
    While scholars debate policy, the
    employees of Area 51 wait for justice.
    The Air Force denies the charge of
    illegal burning, and Judge Pro
    dismissed the lawsuit without
    deciding on its substantive charges;
    so the plaintiffs have no answers to
    their questions about the painful skin
    disorders they say they suffer from.
    And, unless their appeal to the Ninth
    Circuit is granted, President Clinton's
    exemption precludes them from
    obtaining any information about
    what they might have been exposed
    to.
    
    Ironically, that exemption was
    made public the same day Clinton
    announced that the government
    would compensate victims of nuclear
    radiation experiments. "Our
    greatness is measured not only in
    how we so frequently do right," he
    said, "but also how we act when we
    have done the wrong thing."
    
    Has the United States done the
    wrong thing at Area 51? Without
    some kind of break in the intense
    secrecy that surrounds the place, the
    public has no way of knowing. To
    Glenn Campbell, who has made it his
    life's work to inform Americans about
    Area 51, the existence of this level of
    concealment-- and the lack of
    accountability that comes with it--
    are cause for suspicion. "The military
    is the only governmental branch that
    has the prerogative to keep things
    secret from the public," he says.
    "The problem is, where there's
    excessive secrecy, there's usually
    abuse."








From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sat Jan 10 19:48:14 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:48:14 +0800
Subject: The name "Crypto Kong"
In-Reply-To: <199801101918.LAA06148@proxy4.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110194009.00883460@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 11:18 AM 1/10/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote:
>I have received some negative feedback about the name 
>"Crypto Kong".
>Two people have complained that it is unprofessional sounding. 

Keep it.  If you're going for the liberal non-techie market, it's good;
if you're going for the financial market it's still ok,
and if you need to, you can publish a standard for it,
and some small Nevada corporation with a boring name can distribute a 
Crypto-Kong-compatible product with a boring name for you :-)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From Raymond at fbn.bc.ca  Sat Jan 10 20:04:28 1998
From: Raymond at fbn.bc.ca (Raymond D. Mereniuk)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:04:28 +0800
Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801110453.UAA07556@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>




> Tim May  writes:
> > The AMD K6 may not be quite the dog the K5 was, 
> 
> I've got a K5, seems like a fine CPU to me... around the performance
> of a P166 for about 1/2 the price.

>From a purist point of view the Intel Pentium processors are good 
performance pieces.  The main problem with the Cyrix/IBM is very poor 
math coprocessor performance.  The average user may never notice the 
difference but the tests and real life use of Quake show that the 
Cyrix/IBM is not of the same standard as the Pentium.

I have a Intel 166MMX labelled processor running just fine at 225 Mhz 
(75 Mhz X 3).  You can't do the same thing with Cyrix/IBM processors, 
maybe you can over-clock them one step.  I am a keen fan of 
competition in the marketplace and I have two Cyrix/IBM processors in 
the systems in my home.  I have not tried the AMD Pentium class 
processors but I intend to buy one in the near future just to play 
around with it.  In the past AMD was the king of over-clocking and 
did things with the 486 chip that Intel could not, or chose not to.  
I hope AMD again gains that distinction with their Pentium class 
processors.  

Maybe Tim May has the real inside scoop on the AMD K6 processors.  
Certain segments of the market are commiting resources to the AMD K6 
and you should see as many in the market as AMD can produce.  Tim 
May's comments on yield problems at AMD could be very true as 
resellers are having a problem acquiring  AMD K6s processors.  

> 
> Why do you say the K5 is a dog?
> 
> K6 is similarly value for money.
> 
> I also bought a AMD 486 120Mhz a while ago for similar value for money
> reasons.
> 
> I thought for a while Cyrix or AMD had faster processors available
> than Intel.  (Just prior to to Pentium II, where the Pentium Pro was
> highly priced and for some applications slower than an Pentium clocked
> at the same speed).
> 
> I may not be off to buy AMD stock, but I like competition, and will
> buy AMD or Cyrix any time they have a cheaper and compatible product.
> 
> Adam
> -- 
> Now officially an EAR violation...
> Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/
> 
> print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 
> 
Virtually

Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond at fbn.bc.ca






From blancw at cnw.com  Sat Jan 10 20:06:34 1998
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:06:34 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980110200421.007049d8@cnw.com>



Vladerusky:

Your original post brought up several separate aspects which can be
considered separately and may not necessarily coexist in the same place at
the same time:

1)  secrecy
2)  responsibility for publishing
3)  working for the government at the expense of unwilling payors
4)  the motivations of "true scientists"
5)  the requirements for the advancement of science
6)  the need of science for the works of great minds

Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists
to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it.
  I can't disagree that if a scientist is working for the public, that they
should make their work publically available to them, since, after all, they
are supposedly working for the public benefit.

But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing".    I was
only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their
own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some
scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement,
as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually
do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance).

It may be your conclusion that the advancement of science depends upon
scientists publishing their works, but the fact is that some great
scientists, and many others as well, are not as motivated to contribute as
you think is proper for a "true scientist".

I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined
some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to
share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who
are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such
communities.
    ..
Blanc






From trei at relay-1.ziplink.net  Sat Jan 10 20:10:53 1998
From: trei at relay-1.ziplink.net (Trei Family)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:10:53 +0800
Subject: DES 2 challenge: Are you going to help?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980110230904.007ec230@pop3.ziplink.net>



There's been remarkably little discussion about the DES II contest 
sponsored by RSA labs.

On the 13th, RSA will post another DES challenge, again with a $10,000
prize. There's a new wrinkle: while the prize is still being given to
the first person who reports the key, the size of the prize dwindles as
time goes by. It's $10k for the first 540 hours (about 3 weeks), then drops 
to $5k for the next 540, then $1000, and after 1620 hours drops to 0.

Next June RSA will release another challenge, with the same prize; however
the time limits will ratchet down depending on how fast the key is discovered
this time around. Details are at www.rsa.com

I've heard of only one organized group which plans to attack it; the one
based at www.distributed.net This is the same group which successfully 
brute forced 56 bit RC5 encryption. My educated guess, based on the speed 
with which they are currently searching RC5-64 (about 11 Gkey/sec) and the 
known speed differences between RC5 and DES searching, is that they have 
a good but not certain chance of finding the key within the $10,000 window.
[Interesting factoid - at that speed they could crack 40 bit RC5 keys at
better than one a minute.]

If you have cycles to spare, you might consider joining for the DES attack.
Their clients are quite good, and do not interfere with normal operations.

If you don't want to trust d.n's organizers, consider running Svend
Mikkelsen's
Bryddes for x86 processors. It's quite a bit faster than my DESKR, and full
source
is available.

Peter Trei
trei at ziplink.net







From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 20:55:58 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:55:58 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801110521.XAA16005@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:05:20 -0800
> From: Blanc 
> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality 

> Your original post brought up several separate aspects which can be
> considered separately and may not necessarily coexist in the same place at
> the same time:

I'm not shure who the 'Your' is but I'd like to add some comments on these
issues and observations.

> 1)  secrecy

If you don't know something you either can't take advantage of it or else
you have to rediscover it on your own. It is clear that if everyone had to
re-invent the wheel at every step then not much would get done.

> 2)  responsibility for publishing

Nobody has a responsbility to publish. Science is a completely voluntary
pursuit. I would contend personaly that if you don't publish you arent'
doing science but rather mental masturbation (a rather selfish pursuit I
suspect).

> 3)  working for the government at the expense of unwilling payors

I don't think this is relevant to the issue at all.

> 4)  the motivations of "true scientists"

Who spoke of true scientist? A 3 year old kid poking at a lightening bug on
a warm summer eve is as much a true scientist as a Nobel prize winner working
on cosmology, the reason is that *both* will share it with anyone they can
get to hold still long enough to listen. We have been speaking of the impact
of sharing data on the expansion of scienctific knowledge. The actual logic
is remakably simple. If you don't let others know of your work then others
must recreate it or it gets lost and the consequences of that is that whole
areas of knowledge go unvisited potentialy forever. When *they* share it
*they* get credit for it not you (which may or may not be a motive of the
individual, it certainly has *nothing* to do with actualy doing science
however; it's sorta like why some boy asked you out when you were a kid, they
either wanted in your pants or had a genuine interest in your company, or
perpaps even both. In any case this has nothing to do with the fact that a
date is occurring, it's the mechanism and not the motive that is important).

> 5)  the requirements for the advancement of science

To share ones knowledge with others in such a manner that they may
indipendantly verify the results to demonstrate some general pattern in the
mechanism(s) of the cosmos. Once this is done the next step is to
explore the consequences of this new set of general patterns and what the
new understanding leads to.

> 6)  the need of science for the works of great minds

I don't think science needs great minds as much as it offers a set of
opportunities to apply those talents in a challenging manner that is not
present in many other human pursuits. The relationship is like a moth to a
flame (hopefuly with less drastic consequences than for the moth).

> Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists
> to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it.
>   I can't disagree that if a scientist is working for the public, that they
> should make their work publically available to them, since, after all, they
> are supposedly working for the public benefit.

To jump from sharing your work with others in the scientific community and
equating that community to the public is a bit of a leap. The vast majority
of folks wouldn't have a clue what to do with any particular piece of work,
let alone how to use it to get something else that wasn't known. Most
scientist can't fully apply results from other fields unless they happen to
be a polymath or possess some special insight or ability (such as a savante,
a good example is Gauss' being able to instantly see how to sum the first
100 numbers by pairings). To do science requires a discipline that even many
of those who are trying to do science aren't successful at aquiring.

> But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing".    I was
> only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their
> own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some
> scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement,
> as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually
> do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance).

Then perhaps they aren't doing science. One also has to look at the
motivation of why they aren't publishing. It could be that they don't trust
their results, feel that nobody will understand them because of the esoteric
nature, simple bashfulness gone extreme, or open hostility or asocial
tendencies. This last issue raises a whole range of questions and
conclusions about 'great minds' and their 'quirkiness' and commen bahaviour.

> It may be your conclusion that the advancement of science depends upon
> scientists publishing their works, but the fact is that some great
> scientists, and many others as well, are not as motivated to contribute as
> you think is proper for a "true scientist".

It isn't a question of what I think or some definition of 'true scientist'.
It *is* a consequence of what is required to do science which requires that
the work you do is shared with others so *they* don't have to recreate it
and therefore waste time and effort. Science, by definition, is a
collaborative effort. Consider the Fermat example from Tim May, had Fermat
went ahead and written his proof down *and* it had been found all those
people over the last 200 years would have been able to work on other
problems. What kinds of changes in our technology and as a consequence our
society would have resulted if *that* could have happened. Instead of 2 steps
forward and 1 step back we might be 3 steps forward...

> I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined
> some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to
> share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who
> are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such
> communities.

I think you should be more consistent in your definition in what science is,
what it requires from its practitioners, and how that distinguishes them
from others. Simply because I slop paint on a canvas doesn't make me a
artist though it does make me a painter. And it is clear that, at least for
this example, the artist *is* a painter. 'A implying B' does *not* imply
'B implying A'.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sat Jan 10 20:56:28 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:56:28 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110202657.009336a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>




>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that.  If you open a *private*
>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to 
>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt.

I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there;
you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch.
Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s
(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states
could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations;
it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954,
but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business
is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments
if they couldn't be interfering in business.)

>>Tell that to Denney's restaurants. (No, not in the United Fascist
>>States of Amerika you can't.)

>Apologies.  In *theory* you have those rights, on *paper*, you have those
>rights, but in *practice*, you're correct, the Government has power that
>it gleefully abuses, forcing others to comply w/ political correctness.
>
>I'd like some more info on this Denny's thing.

A Denny's restaurant in Maryland had two groups of customers
show up one day, one group black, one group white, both about 6-8 people,
both arriving at the same time, both groups out-of-uniform cops.
The white people got served promptly, the blacks got served
extremely late and rudely.  And sued, and won.

(I was mainly surprised that the white cops got served fast;
my experience in Denny's has almost always been slow bad service,
except for one restaurant in Pennsylvania that hasn't learned
how to act like a real Denny's :-)






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 20:58:10 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:58:10 +0800
Subject: This message required an admin ok...so I gave it
Message-ID: <199801110523.XAA16080@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

Not shure why this thing bounced but I'm going ahead and forwarding it to
the list just in case it didn't percolate through on its own...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|



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> 
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> Subject: cia manipulation
> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 20:40:24 -0800
> From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
> 
> there are different theories about why our government has gotten
> so bad, but I subscribe to the following:
> 
> 1. the public and media
> has not done its duty to keep our government in check. in addition
> to the 3 branches of govt as "checks and balances" built into our
> system, the public and media are the other two crucial ingredients.
> our forefathers didn't imagine either the public or media going bad,
> but that's what's happened imho.
> 
> 2. various special interests have hijacked the government. one of the
> biggest parasites is the "military industrial complex". 
> 
> the following book speaks to these points, and some here might be
> interested. I believe our government could be reformed if enough
> people cared, particularly those in the media and the public. a
> position I know will not be shared by any anarchists here.
> 
> 
> 
>                                                             Amazon.com Home
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>        Search / Browse Subjects / Bestsellers / Recommendation Center
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Secrets : The Cia's War at Home
> by Angus MacKenzie
> 
> List: $27.50
> Our Price: $19.25
> You Save: $8.25 (30%)
> 
> Availability: This title usually ships within 2-3 days.
> 
> Hardcover, 254 pages
> Published by Univ California Press
> Publication date: October 1, 1997
> Dimensions (in inches): 9.62 x 6.38 x 1
> ISBN: 0520200209
> 
> 
> (You can always remove it later...)
> 
> Learn more about
> 1-ClickSM ordering
> 
> Check out these titles! Readers who bought Secrets : The Cia's War at Home
> also bought:
> 
>    * The Cold War & the University : Toward an Intellectual History of the
>      Postwar Years; Noam Chomsky (Editor), et al
>    * Harvest of Rage : Why Oklahoma City Is Only the Beginning; Joel Dyer
>    * Firewall : The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up; Lawrence E. Walsh
> 
> Browse other Politics & Current Events titles.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Reviews and Commentary for Secrets : The Cia's War at Home
> 
> Have you read this book? Write an online review and share your thoughts
> with other readers.
> 
> The New York Times Book Review, Tim Weiner :
> Left in draft form at his death from brain cancer three years ago,
> completed by his friends and family, Secrets is Mackenzie's legacy: a book
> obsessed. Like the man, it is an unruly piece of work, but it grabs you by
> the lapels and holds on.
> 
> Synopsis:
> Drawing from government documents, scores of interviews, and numerous
> stories of CIA malfeasance, the late journalist Angus Mackenzie lays bare
> the behind-the-scenes evolution of a policy of suppression, repression,
> spying, and harassment beginning before the Johnson administration and
> continuing to the present. 11 illustrations.
> 
> Card catalog description
> This eye-opening expose, the result of fifteen years of investigative work,
> uncovers the CIA's systematic efforts over several decades to suppress and
> censor information. Angus Mackenzie, an award-winning yournalist, filed and
> won a lawsuit against the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act, and in
> the process became an expert on government censorship and domestic spying.
> Mackenzie lays bare a complex narrative of intrigue among federal agencies
> and their senior staff, including the Department of Defense, the executive
> branch, and the CIA. From cover-ups and secrecy oaths, to scandals over
> leaks and exposure, to the government's often insidious attempts to monitor
> and control public access to information, Mackenzie tracks the evolution of
> a policy of suppression, repression, spying, and harassment.
> 
> The publisher, University of California Press, www.ucpress.edu , 08/20/97:
> This Book is Now Available
> "If anything is more corrupting than power, it is power exercised in
> secret. Angus Mackenzie's magnificently researched, lucidly written study
> of the CIA's outrageous threats to freedom in America over the years is a
> summons to vigilance to protect our democratic institutions."
> --Daniel Schorr
> 
> "The late Angus Mackenzie has left an appropriate legacy in Secrets: The
> CIA's War at Home, a fitting capstone to his long career of exposing
> government secrecy and manipulation of public information. Secrets is a
> detailed, fascinating and chilling account of the agency's program of
> disinformation and concealment of public information against its own
> citizens."
> --Ben H. Bagdikian, author of THE MEDIA MONOPOLY
> 
> "Scrupulously reported, fleshed out with a fascinating cast of characters,
> skillfully illuminating a subject the news media seldom looked into and
> never got straight, Angus Mackenzie's last and best work richly deserves a
> posthumous Pulitzer -- for nonfiction, history, or both."
> --Jon Swan, former senior editor, Columbia Journalism Review
> 
> "This courageous, uncompromising book belongs on the bookshelf of every
> serious student of journalism and the First Amendment."
> --Tom Goldstein, Dean, Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University
> 
> "Even in 1997, the exposures of courageous, enterprising journalists like
> Mackenzie are crucial for an open government."
> --Publishers Weekly
> 
> This eye-opening expose, the result of fifteen years of investigative work,
> uncovers the CIA's systematic efforts to suppress and censor information
> over several decades. An award-winning journalist, Angus Mackenzie waged
> and won a lawsuit against the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act and
> became a leading expert on questions government censorship and domestic
> spying. In Secrets, he reveals how federal agencies--including the
> Department of Defense, the executive branch, and the CIA--have monitored and
> controlled public access to information. Mackenzie lays bare the
> behind-the-scenes evolution of a policy of suppression, repression, spying,
> and harassment.
> 
> Secrecy operations originated during the Cold War as the CIA instituted
> programs of domestic surveillance and agent provocateur activities. As
> antiwar newspapers flourished, the CIA set up an "underground newspaper"
> desk devoted, as Mackenzie reports, to various counterintelligence
> activities--from infiltrating organizations to setting up CIA-front student
> groups. Mackenzie also tracks the policy of requiring secrecy contracts for
> all federal employees who have contact with sensitive information, insuring
> governmental review of all their writings after leaving government employ.
> 
> Drawing from government documents and scores of interviews, many of which
> required intense persistence and investigative guesswork to obtain, and
> amassing story after story of CIA malfeasance, Mackenzie gives us the best
> account we have of the government's present security apparatus. This is a
> must-read book for anyone interested in the inside secrets of government
> spying, censorship, and the abrogation of First Amendment rights.
> 
> FROM THE BOOK:
> "The major villains of the censorship story are a succession of
> policymakers from the Johnson administration through the Bush
> administration and on into the Clinton years, including several presidents
> themselves. In a sense, theirs is a spy story--not an action-packed one like
> in the movies but one about sleight-of-hand and subterfuge far truer to
> reality."
> 
> ANGUS MACKENZIE (1950-1994), an investigative reporter known for his
> persistence and independence, was one of the nation's foremost experts on
> freedom of information laws. Known for crusading journalism in defense of
> the First Amendment, his work appeared in publications ranging from
> alternative weeklies to the Washington Post and the Columbia Journalism
> Review. Mackenzie was affiliated with the Center for Investigative
> Reporting in San Francisco and taught at the School of Journalism at the
> University of California, Berkeley.
> 
> DAVID WEIR was a co-founder of the Center for Investigative Reporting,
> where he managed contracts with "60 Minutes," "20/20," CNN, CBS News, ABC
> News, and many other outlets. He served as editor and writer at a number of
> publications, including Rolling Stone, Mother Jones, and the San Francisco
> Examiner. He has won or shared over two dozen journalism awards, including
> the National Magazine Award.
> 
> The publisher, University of California Press, www.ucpress.edu , 08/20/97:
> "If anything is more corrupting than power, it is power exercised in
> secret. Angus Mackenzie's magnificently researched, lucidly written study
> of the CIA's outrageous threats to freedom in America over the years is a
> summons to vigilance to protect our democratic institutions."
> --Daniel Schorr
> 
> "The late Angus Mackenzie has left an appropriate legacy in Secrets: The
> CIA's War at Home, a fitting capstone to his long career of exposing
> government secrecy and manipulation of public information. Secrets is a
> detailed, fascinating and chilling account of the agency's program of
> disinformation and concealment of public information against its own
> citizens."
> --Ben H. Bagdikian, author of THE MEDIA MONOPOLY
> 
> "Scrupulously reported, fleshed out with a fascinating cast of characters,
> skillfully illuminating a subject the news media seldom looked into and
> never got straight, Angus Mackenzie's last and best work richly deserves a
> posthumous Pulitzer -- for nonfiction, history, or both."
> --Jon Swan, former senior editor, Columbia Journalism Review
> 
> "This courageous, uncompromising book belongs on the bookshelf of every
> serious student of journalism and the First Amendment."
> --Tom Goldstein, Dean, Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University
> 
> "Even in 1997, the exposures of courageous, enterprising journalists like
> Mackenzie are crucial for an open government."
> --Publishers Weekly
> 
> This eye-opening expose, the result of fifteen years of investigative work,
> uncovers the CIA's systematic efforts to suppress and censor information
> over several decades. An award-winning journalist, Angus Mackenzie waged
> and won a lawsuit against the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act and
> became a leading expert on questions government censorship and domestic
> spying. In Secrets, he reveals how federal agencies--including the
> Department of Defense, the executive branch, and the CIA--have monitored and
> controlled public access to information. Mackenzie lays bare the
> behind-the-scenes evolution of a policy of suppression, repression, spying,
> and harassment.
> 
> Secrecy operations originated during the Cold War as the CIA instituted
> programs of domestic surveillance and agent provocateur activities. As
> antiwar newspapers flourished, the CIA set up an "underground newspaper"
> desk devoted, as Mackenzie reports, to various counterintelligence
> activities--from infiltrating organizations to setting up CIA-front student
> groups. Mackenzie also tracks the policy of requiring secrecy contracts for
> all federal employees who have contact with sensitive information, insuring
> governmental review of all their writings after leaving government employ.
> 
> Drawing from government documents and scores of interviews, many of which
> required intense persistence and investigative guesswork to obtain, and
> amassing story after story of CIA malfeasance, Mackenzie gives us the best
> account we have of the government's present security apparatus. This is a
> must-read book for anyone interested in the inside secrets of government
> spying, censorship, and the abrogation of First Amendment rights.
> 
> FROM THE BOOK:
> "The major villains of the censorship story are a succession of
> policymakers from the Johnson administration through the Bush
> administration and on into the Clinton years, including several presidents
> themselves. In a sense, theirs is a spy story--not an action-packed one like
> in the movies but one about sleight-of-hand and subterfuge far truer to
> reality."
> 
> ANGUS MACKENZIE (1950-1994), an investigative reporter known for his
> persistence and independence, was one of the nation's foremost experts on
> freedom of information laws. Known for crusading journalism in defense of
> the First Amendment, his work appeared in publications ranging from
> alternative weeklies to the Washington Post and the Columbia Journalism
> Review. Mackenzie was affiliated with the Center for Investigative
> Reporting in San Francisco and taught at the School of Journalism at the
> University of California, Berkeley.
> 
> DAVID WEIR was a co-founder of the Center for Investigative Reporting,
> where he managed contracts with "60 Minutes," "20/20," CNN, CBS News, ABC
> News, and many other outlets. He served as editor and writer at a number of
> publications, including Rolling Stone, Mother Jones, and the San Francisco
> Examiner. He has won or shared over two dozen journalism awards, including
> the National Magazine Award.
> 
> >From Kirkus Reviews , 07/01/97:
> A muckraking adventure in the violation of First Amendment rights. Although
> it probably won't come as a surprise to most readers that the federal
> government is capable of spying on its citizens, Mackenzie professes a
> certain bewilderment at the lengths to which the CIA went to suppress
> dissent in the days of Vietnam. The veteran left-wing journalist, who died
> of brain cancer in 1994, began his career as the publisher of an antiwar
> rag called the People's Dreadnaught; harassed by campus police, he was
> forced to suspend publication, although he later won $2,500 in a lawsuit
> against Beloit College over the matter. At a national level, he writes,
> similar suppression was the order of the day. Although the CIA is
> constrained by law from conducting investigations ``inside the continental
> limits of the United States and its possessions,'' in fact, Mackenzie
> charges, it concocted an elaborate counterintelligence program against
> various home-grown protest groups in the 1960s and early '70s, reasoning
> that it was taking antiterrorist measures and thus living up to the spirit,
> if not the letter, of its charter. Among the targets, Mackenzie writes, was
> Ramparts, a venerable leftist magazine that managed to earn the wrath of
> the Feds by reporting on that very internal spying. Other targets were the
> libertarian guru Karl Hess, renegade CIA whistleblowers Victor Marchetti
> and Philip Agee, and a host of lesser-known dissidents. The CIA emerges as
> the heavy, naturally, but the real villains in Mackenzie's account are
> various policymakers from the Johnson administration to the present.
> ``Incrementally over the years they expanded a policy of censorship to the
> point that today it pervades every agency and every department of the
> federal government,'' he writes. And, he continues, that change was so
> gradual that few guardians of the First Amendment noticed. Mackenzie is
> occasionally over the top, sometimes glib. But his charges ring true, and
> civil-liberties advocates will find much of interest in his pages. (11 b&w
> illustrations, not seen) -- Copyright (c)1997, Kirkus Associates, LP. All
> rights reserved.
> 
> Table of Contents
> Foreword
>      By David Weir
> Editors' Preface
> Acknowledgments
> Introduction
> Prologue: The CIA and the Origins of the Freedom of Information Act
> 1. Conservatives Worry and the Cover-Up Begins
> 2. You Expose Us, We Spy on You
> 3. The CIA tries to Censor Books
> 4. Bush Perfects the Cover-Up
> 5. Censor Others as You Would Have Them Censor You
> 6. Did Congress Outlaw This Book?
> 7. Trying to Hush the Fuss
> 8. Overcoming the Opposition
> 9. Censorship Confusion
> 10. The Pentagon Resists Censorship
> 11. Hiding Political Spying
> 12. One Man Says No
> 13. Control of Information
> 14. The CIA Openness Task Force
> Epilogue: The Cold War Ends and Secrecy Spreads
> App. Targets of Domestic Spying
> Notes
> Index
> 
> Look for similar books by subject:
> 
>  Government information
>  United States
>  Freedom of information
>  U.S. Government - Intelligence Agencies
>  POLITICS/CURRENT EVENTS
>  Civil Rights
> 
> i.e., each book must be in subject 1 AND subject 2 AND ...
> 
>    * I read this book, and I want to review it.
>    * I am the Author and I want to comment on my book.
>    * I am the Publisher and I want to comment on this book.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 21:00:32 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:00:32 +0800
Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Tim May  writes:

> >> Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is
> >> composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me,
> >
> >Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist?
>
> And how else could it be?

Evidently some folks on this list do feel that it's possible for the gubmint
to curtail our liberties in some ways and not in others.  Phooey.

> (And most employers will value work output--profits--over lesser
> considerations. So, even though a boss has every "right" to demand that
> employees where dunce caps to work, for example, few will. Those who do
> will lose their employees and go out of business. Sounds fair to me.)

Likewise an employer that discriminates, e.g., redheads of lefties will
lose to its competitors who will hire the valuable employees that this
moron rejected.

> >So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour
> >of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a
> >form of harm.
>
> I "allow people to starve to death" each and every day because they are not
> doing something I want. Think about it. Every time I elect not to send
> money to starving Bengalis or Hutus or Ugabugus I am "allowing them to
> starve," quite literally.
>
> So?

So the United Nations of some other body will take your wealth and
redistribute it to the starving Bengalis whose religion tells them
to have 19 children.

> If an employer chooses not to hire certain types of persons this is really
> no different from my choosing not to marry certain types of persons (and I
> can imagine I could save a woman from "starving" by simply flying to Bangla
> Desh, finding a starving woman, marrying her, and then supporting her. So?).

Should women be allowed to allow men to go horny by refusing to have sex
with certain classes of people?  Can a white woman be sued for consistently
refusing to sleep with black men?

> Freedom means freedom. That some people will not have as much food as they
> would like to have in a free society is no reason to discard freedom.
>
> More to the point, crypto anarchy means taking such decisions about whether
> to discard freedom or not out of the hands of others.

On the internet nobody knows that you're a protected minority.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 21:00:33 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:00:33 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <199801102300.PAA06067@netcom7.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 



"Vladimir Z. Nuri"  writes:

> the mathematical establishment does not look with favor on Gauss'
> secrecy. the commentary is generally that it is a shame he was
> so secret and lost credit for his accomplishments. by the way,

My commentary is that if he had made an effort to disseminate even more of
his work during his lifetime, then they would have spawned more research
sooner, and he would have gotten feedback which would have refined his
ideas even further, and that would be good for the mathematics in general.

> I don't agree that publishing is merely about getting credit, although
> because humans are egotistical, that can be a powerful motivator.

Economic motivation is the best.  Right now a lot of good mathematical
research is kept proprietary because it has practical applications
(whether in cryptograpy or finance or some other industry). Publishing
in peer-reviewed jounrnals is a pain in the ass and the only people who
go through with it are colege professors seeking a tenure or a promotion.

The reason why patents were invented was to encourage inventors to
publish their inventions rather than keeping them a trade secret;
eventually the patent would expire and the new knowledge would
benefit everyone.

I wish I saw an economic incentive for folks working in the industry
(including the NSA et al), and the tenured professors to publish.

> you refer to science in a narrow sense of merely constructing things.
> this is not the sense of science that is of crucial importance to
> humanity as a whole. the atom bomb was in some ways a serious regression
> of the collective human condition.

Woulx you have liked it better if Truman gassed the japs?

> this is all so easy, refuting Timmy's feeble grasp of science, that
> I might soon quit. unless I get the sense (which I have a finely honed
> detector) that his veins are popping,
> in which case I'll post a few treatises on the subject.

Is that all that it takes?  Maybe I should post more often.

> >Have they begun torturing you with the snakes of Medusa yet?

Timmy sounds like Janos Bolyai, who claimed that Lobachevsky was not a
real person, but a tentacle of Gauss.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 21:11:37 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:11:37 +0800
Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801110535.XAA16273@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships
> From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 22:43:04 EST

> Evidently some folks on this list do feel that it's possible for the gubmint
> to curtail our liberties in some ways and not in others.  Phooey.

Exactly. And it is as it should be. Consider that speech is *not* equivalent
to action (eg. swinging a fist). Running an enterprise or engaging in some
activity *is* equivalent to the party swinging their fist. They have a
*right* to swing it so long as it *doesn't* interfere in others right to
swing their fist *and* the first parties swinging doesn't strike the second
party. In short, a party has the right to make as much money as they like,
however that right does not extend to the point of inhibiting others from
similar opportunities. A free market monopolizes, that monopolization
inhibits others from expressing their rights in the same manner that hitting
some person in the face inhibits their fist swinging because they are out
cold on the floor. As a consequence a free market is inherently inhibiting
on free expression - something any self-respecting anarchist won't put up
with. So we are left with the very simple conclusion that any anarchist
worth the title won't put up with a free market because it creates an
environment that creates a monarchy.

It is logicaly inconsistent, and philosophicaly nonsensical, to talk about
being an anarchist of any ilk *and* talking about supporting free markets.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 21:15:52 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:15:52 +0800
Subject: A further thought on free markets & anarchy...
Message-ID: <199801110542.XAA16327@einstein.ssz.com>



Given that anarchist don't support a 'head' in regards to human activities
*and* that a free market monopolizes thus creating a 'head' it is clear 
that if we apply the ideas of human society (ie political systems) to
economics we derive a fundamental conflict, that a anarchist in the economic
sphere is left with no choice but to agree that economic systems must be
managed and creates a 'head' either by plan or monopolistic fiat.

Therefore the original thesis that such political models are applicable to
economic ones is flawed. It simply is not possible for an economic system to
exhist without some sort of 'head' or guiding structure. This is
fundamentaly at odds with the definition and spirit of anarchy.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 21:16:57 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:16:57 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980110200421.007049d8@cnw.com>
Message-ID: 



Blanc  writes:
> Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists
> to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it.

Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines
to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
a loss for more than just his colleagues.

>   I can't disagree that if a scientist is working for the public, that they
> should make their work publically available to them, since, after all, they
> are supposedly working for the public benefit.

I assume most of the research results from NIH or NIMH are publicly
available.  Unfortunatey, none of the stuff done at NSA gets published.
Of course NSA today is nothing like the NSA in the past. We're not
missing much by not seeing whatever inept drivel is produced by
Clinton's affirmativr action appointees.  Phooey.

> But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing".    I was
> only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their
> own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some
> scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement,
> as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually
> do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance).

Perhaps they would publish if there were an economic incentive to.

> I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined
> some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to
> share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who
> are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such
> communities.

Instead of thinking in terms obligations, think of economic incentives.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 21:37:18 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:37:18 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980110202657.009336a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 



Bill Stewart  writes:
>
> >>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that.  If you open a *private*
> >>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to
> >>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt.
>
> I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there;

Freedoms not explicitly enumerated there aren't protected? Come on.

> you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch.
> Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s
> (Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states
> could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations;
> it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954,
> but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business
> is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments
> if they couldn't be interfering in business.)

It was wrong for the gubmint (state) to require segregation just as it
is wrong for it to prohibit racial discrimination.

When martin luther king was boycotting buses et al, he had much support
from the private bus companies, who were required by the states to
segregate, but didn't want to.

"I have a dream.  I want my birthday to be a holiday." -MLK

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 21:37:37 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:37:37 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801110603.AAA16499@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality 
> From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 23:48:06 EST

> Blanc  writes:
> > Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists
> > to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it.
> 
> Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines
> to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
> but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
> a loss for more than just his colleagues.

I believe this view to be fundamentaly flawed. Consider that if a particular
scientist doesn't publish (ala Fermat) then this does not inherently
prohibit or inhibit others from deriving the result (lot's of examples so I
won't pick a single one). However, when an artist or other practitioner of
human expression fails to publish then an item of unique character is lost.
Had T.S. Elliot not written 'Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats' it is
*very* unlikely that *anyone* in the entire remaining history of the
universe would have written those charming poems and we would be deprived
among other things of knowing why a cat has three names. In addition, the
fact that a given individual finds no worth in why a cat has three names
does not change the worth of the insight provided by the author. So, while a
given art critics views may not mean much to you this does not justify in
any manner trivializing that worth for others. To do so would indicate a
personality of extreme hubris and potentialy a severe sociopathy. Expect
them to begin walking around with their hand in their vest at any moment.

The distinction is that human expression doesn't assume homogeneity nor
isotropy as science requires. Rather it assumes a priori that each activity
and it's result is unique in the history of the universe and fundamentaly an
expression of that *individual* view of experience. That is what art derives
it worth from while science derives its worth from the result being the same
irrespective of the practitioner.

And before somebody brings it up, while reality *is* observer dependant,
this is a recognition that the act of testing is fundamentaly a part of the
sytsem being tested. The statistical results *are* homogenious and
isotropic for observers - Fire in the Deep not withstanding.


            The end of our exploring will be to arrive at where we
            started, and to know the place for the first time.

                                                 T.S. Eliot




    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 10 21:39:31 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:39:31 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801110521.XAA16005@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <42m5ie59w165w@bwalk.dm.com>



Jim Choate  writes:

> > 1)  secrecy
>
> If you don't know something you either can't take advantage of it or else
> you have to rediscover it on your own. It is clear that if everyone had to
> re-invent the wheel at every step then not much would get done.

If you come up with a mathematical result that can be useful in finance,
you can sometimes make very substantial money either trading for yourself
or selling your result to others who trade. obviously if you publish it
in the open lierature, you can no longer do this.

Folks who work for the NSA and its foreign counterparts generally don't
publish anything, even stuff that would be totally useless to the enemies.

> > 2)  responsibility for publishing
>
> Nobody has a responsbility to publish. Science is a completely voluntary
> pursuit. I would contend personaly that if you don't publish you arent'
> doing science but rather mental masturbation (a rather selfish pursuit I
> suspect).

There have been scientists most of whose work was published after their deaths.
There probably have been scientists whose notes were lost after their deaths,
so we don't know who they were. There have been great writers most of whose
works were discovered and published after their deaths, and are still great
works of lierature.

Instead of talking about obligations or responsiiblities, try to come up
with an economic incentive to publish.  It works best.

> > 3)  working for the government at the expense of unwilling payors
>
> I don't think this is relevant to the issue at all.

Oh yes it is. I pay their salaries with my taxes, I want to see their results.
[snip]

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From delznic at acm.org  Sat Jan 10 21:50:33 1998
From: delznic at acm.org (Douglas F. Elznic)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:50:33 +0800
Subject: DES 2 challenge: Are you going to help?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980110230904.007ec230@pop3.ziplink.net>
Message-ID: 



On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Trei Family wrote:
> I've heard of only one organized group which plans to attack it; the one
> based at www.distributed.net This is the same group which successfully 
> brute forced 56 bit RC5 encryption. My educated guess, based on the speed 
> with which they are currently searching RC5-64 (about 11 Gkey/sec) and the 
> known speed differences between RC5 and DES searching, is that they have 
> a good but not certain chance of finding the key within the $10,000 window.
> [Interesting factoid - at that speed they could crack 40 bit RC5 keys at
> better than one a minute.]
But distributed.net will not be focusing all of thier computing power on
one project. They are also doing the old des contests. So the power will
be diminished a little bit.

--
Douglas F. Elznic
delznic at acm.org
"If they give you lined paper, write the other way."
Freedom through Electronic Resistance






From ryan at ntslink.net  Sat Jan 10 21:50:49 1998
From: ryan at ntslink.net (ryan at ntslink.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:50:49 +0800
Subject: RML : New Webmaster Newsletter!!
Message-ID: <199801110544.VAA21137@usa-1.gsd.com.au>




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From dm0 at avana.net  Sat Jan 10 21:59:26 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:59:26 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801110603.AAA16499@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <34B85EED.2D12492D@avana.net>



> ... If an art critic declines
> to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
> but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
> a loss for more than just his colleagues.

The author has a skewed view which says that science is more important
than
art.  Simply not true.  Don't get too narrow a view of "progress".

--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad

Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system.






From hethr at ntr.net  Sun Jan 11 15:31:14 1998
From: hethr at ntr.net (hethr at ntr.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:31:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hello, enjoy it..
Message-ID: <199801112329.SAA13169@rome.ntr.net>



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From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 10 23:50:36 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:50:36 +0800
Subject: Head up - Press civil rights spin-doctorism...
Message-ID: <199801110815.CAA16906@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

Check out the current 'Justice Files' on The Discovery Channle. The general
gist is that individual prior to being proven a criminal have too many civil
liberties and as a result police are hindered in their duties.

It'd be pretty funny if it wasn't serious.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Jan 11 00:05:28 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:05:28 +0800
Subject: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980110191251.0101e398@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110231328.00850e60@popd.ix.netcom.com>



>>John Cassidy writes in the January 12 New Yorker mag
>>of the controversial economic theory which undergirds DoJ's
>>antitrust action against Microsoft.
>>He cites a seminal 1984 paper by Brian Arthur, "Competing
>>Technologies and Lock-in by Historical Small Events: The
>>Dynamics of Choice Under Increasing Returns."
...
>>After years of disparagement the theory seems to have
>>caught on, at least at Justice and with others who oppose the
>>theory of free market determination of winners and losers.
>>Arthur argues that market dominance by inferior products
>>is possible, and cites MS-DOS as an example.

Two other examples - 
- Rockefeller's takeover of the oil industry in the late 1800s
- the Anti-Trust laws that were intended to stop Rockefeller :-)

Apparently a large part of Rockefeller's success was recognizing the
critical resource in the industry and using control of it for
economic advantage.  The resource was railroad oil tank cars,
which were immensely more economical for shipping oil than the
competing technologies - transportation costs were substantial.
Rockefeller cornered the market for them, using them to ship oil
cheaper than other shippers, allowing his refineries to outbid
competitors for crude oil from suppliers, cornering enough of that
market to have a dominant position with the railroads,
which didn't have an economic motivation to buy their own tank cars,
and the tank car makers didn't have an incentive to make them on spec,
especially with Rockefeller twisting their arms.

The total amount of actual capital was pretty small - about 
5000-6000 cars at $1000 each, back when that was still real money,
but it was enough to leverage the industry.  There were other factors
involved - his control over the tank cars let him get away with
ripping off his oil suppliers and the railroads on measurements of
the quantities they were shipping, much corporate shuffling
to hide the real ownership of the resources and evade regulators,
kickbacks to avoid common carrier railroad tariffs,
and heavy use of information technology (5000 cars only needed a
couple of clerks with ledgers, but there were lots of people 
telegraphing shipping data back to them so it was near-real-time.)

If the industry had been well-understood, rather than breaking up
a billion-dollar business, the anti-trust folks could have subsidized 
(directly or through tax breaks) competing production of tank cars.
They did try to control ownership of tank cars, so Rockefeller spun off
the tank car company, but retained effective control for decades.
Their choices have set us up for a century of bad law....

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Jan 11 00:08:11 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:08:11 +0800
Subject: Anger Crimes Up 442% In Bay Area
In-Reply-To: <34927314.21AC@dev.null>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110231626.0084f7b0@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 03:35 AM 12/13/97 -0800, Bezerkeley Nutly News [Toto again] wrote:
>[Bezerkeley Nutly News: Special Report by Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw]
>AT AN EMERGENCY CYPHERPUNKS PHYSICAL MEETING AT THE W&S TAVERN AT 
>5 a.m. in south Berkeley this morning, a lone gunman held police at
>bay for several hours before escaping with a carton of cigarettes and
>several bottles of cheap scotch.

Nonsense.  None of us drink _cheap_ Scotch.....  




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 00:18:00 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:18:00 +0800
Subject: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801110844.CAA17065@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:13:28 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft

> The total amount of actual capital was pretty small - about 
> 5000-6000 cars at $1000 each, back when that was still real money,

Half a million plus dollars is real money now too.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|







From blancw at cnw.com  Sun Jan 11 00:18:36 1998
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:18:36 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980111001654.007047c8@cnw.com>



Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

>Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines
>to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
>but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
>a loss for more than just his colleagues.
.........................................................................

There is a sense of loss of valuable information, once you know that it
existed before you knew about it.   Of course, there are a million and one
things that we don't know today that we wish we knew, and which could help
everyone who has the need for that special knowledge.

1) But it is also true that the Truth (the facts of nature and principles
on what is possible - in mathematics, or any scientific pursuit) does not
"go away" simply because one person's discovery is not conveyed to
everyone.  It remains true and in existence, waiting for anyone else to do
the work of discovery, or for mankind itself to evolve into the kind of
creature whose mind can grasp the principles involved.   It is a loss not
to know the achievements of a great scientist's work, but the facts
themselves are not lost, they remain available for anyone who can think as
well, to find them.

2) Scientists and other very original, competent people like to think they
can do as well as any one else, and I imagine sometimes they consider
insulting the proposition that they must depend upon the work of another in
order to achieve understanding; that without it they would be unable to do
as well.  Isn't this one of the reasons for some of the conflicts between
scientists over originality, and the jealousy over recognition?

I went to an exhibit yesterday of Leonardo da Vinci, where I saw the 400
year old Codex Leicester.   He was "a keen observer" of Nature, and from
his detailed studies he learned much which provided his inventive mind with
much material for creative works.   The exhibit brings to mind not only his
work, but the methods of such a great mind in reaching those heights and
breadths.

So in relation to this debate on the morality of not sharing:  would it not
be as good a thing to look toward method - to value and promote the ability
to know how to think, how to observe properly, how to understand what is
before oneself - than merely to consider ourselves dependent upon the
_result_ of the work of certain others, bewailing their insensitivity when
they fail to share with us what they obtained for themselves?  Because this
does go in the direction of thinking in terms of "obligation", which is
rather unappreciative of their unique & separate identity.   
    ..
Blanc






From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 00:24:53 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:24:53 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801110850.CAA17167@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:17:40 -0800
> From: Blanc 
> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality 

> I went to an exhibit yesterday of Leonardo da Vinci, where I saw the 400
> year old Codex Leicester.   He was "a keen observer" of Nature, and from
> his detailed studies he learned much which provided his inventive mind with
> much material for creative works.   The exhibit brings to mind not only his
> work, but the methods of such a great mind in reaching those heights and
> breadths.

Which one was it? I had the privilege of working on the IBM Leonardo
exhibit when it was in Austin at Discovery Hall about 10 years ago. Part of my
duties was to repair two of his models (the 'turtle' tank & his composite
ship hull design) and got a real appreciation of his skills.

There was a show on one of the cable science shows about Leonardo week before
last. You might want to review your schedule and catch it. I found it quite
entertaining and educational.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From honig at otc.net  Sun Jan 11 00:38:19 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:38:19 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111002729.007cc410@otc.net>



 One of the reasons why all drugs should be legal
>is that people who should not breed will use the drugs to kill themselves,
>leaving more room/wealth/resources for their genetic superiors.

Ah yes, the argument against required motorcycle helmets which looks for
the increased organ
harvest for transplants.

Bogus reasoning.  You are sovereign and can do with yourself as you please.
 *That* is why substances should be legal and helmets should be optional.
Pragmatics are irrelevant.  I *do*
wear seatbelts but it should be my choice, not
something the state can use violence to enforce.

Pardon for the off-topic..





David Honig 			honig at alum.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------
If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people
under the pretense of
 caring for them, they will be happy.  -TJ






From honig at otc.net  Sun Jan 11 00:38:27 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:38:27 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111002305.007ca5f0@otc.net>



At 01:28 AM 1/11/98 +1100, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> If you have a population of
>unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion
>or improvement.
>

A population *must* undergo variation in its
heriditary units since 
1. there's always errors in copying the code
2. equivalently, you can't drive the error rate
of a channel down to 0, just arbitrarily close.

So your herd of clones will eventually acquire
some genetic diversity and selection necessarily
follows.

Geez are we off-subject.



David Honig 			honig at alum.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------
If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people
under the pretense of
 caring for them, they will be happy.  -TJ






From 08145628 at usa.net  Sun Jan 11 17:41:54 1998
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From anon at squirrel.owl.de  Sun Jan 11 01:52:12 1998
From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:52:12 +0800
Subject: Accounts payable
Message-ID: 



>Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug.
>
>         (_) _____ (_)
>            /O   O\   Timmy C[rook] May
>           !   I   !
>           ! \___/ !
>            \_____/

Since when is Tim a government official?






From lord_buttmonkey at juno.com  Sun Jan 11 02:08:28 1998
From: lord_buttmonkey at juno.com (Matthew L Bennett)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:08:28 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <19980111.045850.4894.3.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com>



>If we have to resort to physical violence, 
>we've
>already lost!

No, we wouldn't.  If we had to resort to physical violence against a
government, than it needs it, you shouldn't need to do that if the
Constitution is in effect.  Otherwise...

>Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we 
>need
>crypto?

Because holding up a PGP disk will not save your life if a
robber/looter/IRS Agent breaks into your house.






From lord_buttmonkey at juno.com  Sun Jan 11 02:10:03 1998
From: lord_buttmonkey at juno.com (Matthew L Bennett)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:10:03 +0800
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980111.045850.4894.5.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com>



>> >What is wrong selling privacy for money?
>> 
>> It usually involves making it shitty.
>
>Oh yeah, that's the way free enterprise works... if you make your 
>product 
>shitty, your customers will pay more for it!  Hey maybe if I do a 
>crappy 
>job, my employer will pay me more!

Erm, no.

Some businesses put out shoddy encryption products, regardless.






From lord_buttmonkey at juno.com  Sun Jan 11 02:11:34 1998
From: lord_buttmonkey at juno.com (Matthew L Bennett)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:11:34 +0800
Subject: Spam
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980111.045850.4894.7.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com>



On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:43:34 -0400 The Sheriff 
writes:
>Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that
>I couldn't do anything about with what I have the 
>knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up only
>one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer.

It happens.

>I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out
>more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does
>in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so,
>I'm not sure how to find that out.  If he doesn't, is
>there anything I can do?
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, there is.

Delete the friggin e-mail like a sensible person.

I get a lot of spam every day, but I just delete it and go on with my
life.






From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Sun Jan 11 02:32:29 1998
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:32:29 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}  writes:

[...]

> > There is a diffrence.  It is only evoltion if there is a combernation of
> > natural verence and natural selection.  If you have a population of
> > unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion
> > or improvement.
> 
> In case of homo sapiens, it is the same thing.

Of cause, I'm just pedantic enought to point this out.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNLiJ76QK0ynCmdStAQFvVQP+Kxu345PppVVJsfBpmDv779NwbdrG5T28
wkxXH1JokaYstwdRFaW3fi84fuBtrqTmQFQpwZ0F3fCyZ3nxPf8aug3AOxqAzdsE
NP4OsTYga5VqP+4ugjzKmjiOZYbyuaSshtFaVHA4wjZ42t7IzBDNWHxOadnNxFFP
qfbbBPpDQuk=
=yQdZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 03:15:56 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:15:56 +0800
Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News
Message-ID: 



> [people disparaging the  AMD/Cyrix Processors, as well as defending them]

I have used a K6-200 overclocked to a K6-300 (83mhz bus speed) for
some time now, mostly accomplishing the cooling issue by leaving it
in my bedroom with the window open all winter.  It's a great
value -- for $200+$100 I got a processor and motherboard capable of
PII-level performance in things like code compiles, etc.  I've even
hand-optimized some code for the K6 -- it's a great chip.

If I find investors/customers/etc. by March-July 98 for Eternity DDS, though, 
I'm planning to buy 8 DEC AlphaPC motherboards with dual 21264 processors.
Some pieces of Eternity DDS are now being implemented in Oracle for
speed of implementation reasons, and other pieces are being prototyped
in Scheme (maybe), so even my K6 is getting hammered.  Plus, I'm now testing
some kernel modifications, and having to reboot the only functional server,
bring Oracle back up, initialize the world, bring up a web server and
an encrypted filesystem, etc. all without disrupting service too much
whenever I make a minor change, then do it every time I need to change
one character in the kernel, is really annoying.  Running the different
services on different machines would be far more realistic and practical.

[*Obcrypto*: I have gotten incredibly backed up with work of various
kinds, and email.  However, I still have time for silly web service
questions.  Here goes:

Does anyone know of a way I can take a web server, say AOLserver, which
does not support useful SSL, and also does not distribute source, and
retrofit a useful 128-bit SSL implementation to it?  It has a C API, but
I haven't looked at the API enough to see if I could do it within the API.
Are there any proxies which could be stuck between the insecure server
and the user (preferably with an ssh link between the servers) which could
provide SSL proxy service?  It seems like this should be trivial to do,
but I haven't tried yet, and I want to have some reedeming value for this
post.]
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		






From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 03:24:12 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:24:12 +0800
Subject: openworld, inc.
Message-ID: 



Has anyone looked at these people?  They seem to be selling turnkey
systems for offshore digital commerce, among other things, which I believe
is fundamentally interesting.  However, they seem like they're involved
in several traditional weird Government-affiliated international business
startup/consulting group/etc. projects, like educational resources, and
from what I remember of a Tim May response to them, they seemed to believe
money laundering/thoughtcrime/etc. was morally reprehensible and the
duty of technical people to prevent (I may be wrong, he may be wrong, they
may be wrong...)

[ObNonCrypto: I picked the 3-pin Medeco lock on the front of my 
IBM RS/6000 320 today.  I was just kind of sitting here with my new picks
and wrench and was bored and poking around, and I got it to go from Secure to
Normal.  Luckily the lock turns both ways, since I was picking it backwards :(
I've been thinking about and off and on trying to pick it for several months
now -- it's a pretty impressive lock for the case on a workstation.  3-pin
Medecos are a pale comparison to the real ones, though.  Guess what locks
I will specify from now on...] 
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		






From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com  Sun Jan 11 04:06:32 1998
From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:06:32 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199801111151.DAA14980@sirius.infonex.com>



Timmy C. Maypole is a pimply dweeb sitting at a computer 
chortling at his own imagined cleverness.

              (/T\)  _____                     (/V\)
              (-,-) ()====) .  +  .   .    +   ('.') Timmy C. Maypole
              \(o)/   -|3 .     .   .       .  J\~/L
             /='
        ,OOO//|   |    .+   .   <%%%%%%%%%%%O >|<  \ooo,
        O:O:O LLLLL + .  .   .     .     I  .  //|\\ o:0:o
        \OOO/ || ||     .  .   .      +     .  ~|~|~ \ooo/
             C_) (_D                           _I I_






From trei at relay-1.ziplink.net  Sun Jan 11 07:48:04 1998
From: trei at relay-1.ziplink.net (Trei Family)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:48:04 +0800
Subject: More on the DES II contest.
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980111103458.006a3184@pop3.ziplink.net>



Douglas F. Elznic and Lucky Green have both written saying 
that www.distributed.net will not be devoting their full 
effort to the DES II challenge.

This is incorrect. 

www.distributed.net is a highly centralized effort, in which
clients are almost completely controlled by the central site,
with which they are in frequent communication.

Over the past few weeks, the clients have been upgraded to a
version containing dual search cores - they can search either
rc5-64 or an arbitrary DES key.

On the morning of the 13th, as soon as the DES II challenge 
data becomes available, their servers will stop issuing 
rc5-64 blocks and start issuing DES II blocks. The clients
will all switch over to the DES II contest without any action
by the owners of the client machines.

I too would like to see a serious effort made at a 512 bit
RSA key. However, the infrastructure for this is quite a 
bit more complex than a simple bruteforce against a 
symmetric key, and the organizers of d.n don't seem to be
ready for it.

My greatest fear with DES II is that if d.n finds the key
early in the search, they may decide to sit on it until 
just before the 540 hour deadline. If they are the only
group with a credible chance of finding the key (as far as
I know, this is the case), then their payback is maximized
by by this tactic, since the time limits for the June
contest are determined by the speed with which the key is
found in January.

My personal impression is that d.n seems more motivated
by the money, which they want to further their research
on distributed computing, than they are by ideology.

The above represent my personal, private views, and
should neccesarily be attributed to my employer.

Peter Trei
trei at ziplink.net
ptrei at hotmail.com (more reliable next week)


 






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 08:05:44 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:05:44 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111002729.007cc410@otc.net>
Message-ID: 



David Honig  writes:

>  One of the reasons why all drugs should be legal
> >is that people who should not breed will use the drugs to kill themselves,
> >leaving more room/wealth/resources for their genetic superiors.
>
> Ah yes, the argument against required motorcycle helmets which looks for
> the increased organ
> harvest for transplants.
>
> Bogus reasoning.  You are sovereign and can do with yourself as you please.
>  *That* is why substances should be legal and helmets should be optional.
> Pragmatics are irrelevant.  I *do*
> wear seatbelts but it should be my choice, not
> something the state can use violence to enforce.

The above is just one of the reasons why all drugs should be legalized.

As for helmets, seatbelts, et al, consider them in context: most kids
stupid enough to ride a bike wihtout a helmet are already on welfare.
If they get themselves certified brain-damaged (I don't know how the
doctors tell the difference :-) they'll be stealing even more of my money
through taxes. Therefore in the context of taxpayers paying the medical
bills of these parasites, helmets can be required.

> Pardon for the off-topic..

I try to find cryptorelevance in the publishing one's results v. secrecy
thread.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 08:06:31 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:06:31 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801110603.AAA16499@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 



Jim Choate  writes:

> > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
>
> > Blanc  writes:
> > > Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientist
> > > to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from i
> >
> > Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines
> > to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
> > but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
> > a loss for more than just his colleagues.
>
> I believe this view to be fundamentaly flawed. Consider that if a particular
> scientist doesn't publish (ala Fermat) then this does not inherently
> prohibit or inhibit others from deriving the result (lot's of examples so I
> won't pick a single one).

You don't seem to realize that the likelyhood of someone independently
rediscovering a "lost" math result is much less than the likelyhood of
two people independently creating substantially similar works of art.

For example, all of T.S.Elliot's poetry is substantially similar to
Walt Whitman's poetry. They are, for most intents and purposes, mutually
interchangeable. (Emily "lick my bud" Dickinson is almost interchangeable.)

> However, when an artist or other practitioner of
> human expression fails to publish then an item of unique character is lost.
> Had T.S. Elliot not written 'Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats' it is
> *very* unlikely that *anyone* in the entire remaining history of the
> universe would have written those charming poems and we would be deprived
> among other things of knowing why a cat has three names.

I was using art critics as an example, not artists.  Don't you know who art
critics are?

> In addition, the
> fact that a given individual finds no worth in why a cat has three names
> does not change the worth of the insight provided by the author. So, while a
> given art critics views may not mean much to you this does not justify in
> any manner trivializing that worth for others.

Think why I thought of art/lit critics and not, e.g., archeologists.

> To do so would indicate a
> personality of extreme hubris and potentialy a severe sociopathy.

Why thank you.

> Expect
> them to begin walking around with their hand in their vest at any moment.

I've got to get me a vest...

> The distinction is that human expression doesn't assume homogeneity nor
> isotropy as science requires. Rather it assumes a priori that each activity
> and it's result is unique in the history of the universe and fundamentaly an
> expression of that *individual* view of experience. That is what art derives
> it worth from while science derives its worth from the result being the same
> irrespective of the practitioner.

Well, you were just ranting about the non-euclidean geometries created by
Gauss, Lobachevsky, and janos (not Farkas) Bolyai.  Are they the same?
Does their choice of words to express their mathematical ideas matter?
Does it matter who published first? Would it be a loss for humanity if
Lubachevsky, like Gauss, chose not to publish contraversial ideas?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 08:07:31 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:07:31 +0800
Subject: Zippo censors are losing customers
In-Reply-To: <006d01bd1e74$d5de57c0$54cbffd0@default>
Message-ID: 



"Dr. Jai Maharaj"  writes:

> > From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 
> >
> >Zippo is now censoring more people besides Colin.  It may sound cheap
> >but it's not worth $19/year.
>
> Now many discussion threads (not spam) are missing from DejaNews also.
> They claim to be using "technology" developed by Zippo -- the following
> press release is located at:

It sounds like dejanews is applying nocem on spool, and also applying old
nocems to their historical databases. (Does that include chris lewis's
"trollcancels"?)

Zippo refuses to accept articles where the From: is one of the many people
they've blacklisted for content. See the recent article by Russ Allbery
on net.config where he promotes panix's patches to nntp for something similar.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 08:07:31 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:07:31 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980111001654.007047c8@cnw.com>
Message-ID: 



Blanc  writes:

> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>
> >Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines
> >to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
> >but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
> >a loss for more than just his colleagues.
> .........................................................................
>
> There is a sense of loss of valuable information, once you know that it
> existed before you knew about it.   Of course, there are a million and one
> things that we don't know today that we wish we knew, and which could help
> everyone who has the need for that special knowledge.
>
> 1) But it is also true that the Truth (the facts of nature and principles
> on what is possible - in mathematics, or any scientific pursuit) does not
> "go away" simply because one person's discovery is not conveyed to
> everyone.  It remains true and in existence, waiting for anyone else to do
> the work of discovery, or for mankind itself to evolve into the kind of
> creature whose mind can grasp the principles involved.   It is a loss not
> to know the achievements of a great scientist's work, but the facts
> themselves are not lost, they remain available for anyone who can think as
> well, to find them.

Think of Leonardo da Vinci's portrait of Mona Lisa. For
reasons unknown to me, computer geeks like to use it in digitized form as
an example of art. Had it been kept in the Versailles during the french
revolution, it probably would have been looted and destroyed by the mobs.
If that happened, computer geeks probably would be using some other
famous work of art at their art fetish; perhaps the birth of venus
because there the woman is nekkid(!). If some art critic (professional
or amateur) expressed an opinion as to why computer geeks like Mona Lisa,
that opinion would probably be of no consequence.  And if Isaac Newton
chose to write principa in english, rather than latin, it probably would
have contained the same mathematical ideas.

> 2) Scientists and other very original, competent people like to think they
> can do as well as any one else, and I imagine sometimes they consider
> insulting the proposition that they must depend upon the work of another in
> order to achieve understanding; that without it they would be unable to do
> as well.  Isn't this one of the reasons for some of the conflicts between
> scientists over originality, and the jealousy over recognition?

That's why the society/the species benefits when scientific ideas are
published and disseminated: other scientists exposed to these ideas
come up with ideas of their own.

> I went to an exhibit yesterday of Leonardo da Vinci, where I saw the 400
> year old Codex Leicester.   He was "a keen observer" of Nature, and from
> his detailed studies he learned much which provided his inventive mind with
> much material for creative works.   The exhibit brings to mind not only his
> work, but the methods of such a great mind in reaching those heights and
> breadths.
>
> So in relation to this debate on the morality of not sharing:  would it not
> be as good a thing to look toward method - to value and promote the ability
> to know how to think, how to observe properly, how to understand what is
> before oneself - than merely to consider ourselves dependent upon the
> _result_ of the work of certain others, bewailing their insensitivity when
> they fail to share with us what they obtained for themselves?  Because this
> does go in the direction of thinking in terms of "obligation", which is
> rather unappreciative of their unique & separate identity.

You're missing my point. If the society would benefit from a certain behavior,
it should not rely on coercion, but use economic motivation to encourage it.
Clearly NSF doesn't work any better than NEA.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 08:08:40 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:08:40 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34B85EED.2D12492D@avana.net>
Message-ID: 



David Miller  writes:

> > ... If an art critic declines
> > to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics,
> > but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's
> > a loss for more than just his colleagues.
>
> The author has a skewed view which says that science is more important
> than
> art.  Simply not true.  Don't get too narrow a view of "progress".

David, you need to learn to read.

"Art critic" != art, just like "lit crit" != literature.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 08:13:49 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:13:49 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801111639.KAA18272@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
> From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 10:08:56 EST

> David, you need to learn to read.
> 
> "Art critic" != art, just like "lit crit" != literature.

And you need to pay more attention as well. Being an art critic does not
exclude the art in the act of critical review. The expression of emotional
and intellectual consequence of the piece under review requires a creative
act just as valid as the creation of the piece under review.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 08:18:12 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:18:12 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801111642.KAA18314@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
> From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 09:51:22 EST

> You don't seem to realize that the likelyhood of someone independently
> rediscovering a "lost" math result is much less than the likelyhood of
> two people independently creating substantially similar works of art.

Malarky, the history of science (and of human civilizations) is replete with
example after example of idividuals discovering the same basic theme and its
proof. Just the three examples we have been using (Newton, Gauss, Fermat)
are filled with comments about contemporaries discovering the same result.
Review Darwin for a moment, he chose to share the fame for evolutionary
theory with Wallace because he had reached the same conclusion. Had either
Darwin or Wallace not chose to publish the result would still have been
found and shared.

> For example, all of T.S.Elliot's poetry is substantially similar to
> Walt Whitman's poetry. They are, for most intents and purposes, mutually
> interchangeable. (Emily "lick my bud" Dickinson is almost interchangeable.)

Only in the context that they are both poets who write poetry.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 08:42:30 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:42:30 +0800
Subject: Shoddy crypto wares
In-Reply-To: <19980111.045850.4894.5.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com>
Message-ID: 



lord_buttmonkey at juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) writes:

> >Oh yeah, that's the way free enterprise works... if you make your
> >product
> >shitty, your customers will pay more for it!  Hey maybe if I do a
> >crappy
> >job, my employer will pay me more!
>
> Erm, no.
>
> Some businesses put out shoddy encryption products, regardless.

In most industries, some vendors can get away with selling a shoddy product/
service because their cost of good sold is typically less, and they can
charge a lower price, some some buys will go for it.






From tcmay at got.net  Sun Jan 11 09:43:49 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:43:49 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




I haven't been following the latest round of "Eternity" discussions. I
gather that Ryan's efforts are distinct from Adam Back's efforts, which are
themselves distinct from the seminal Ross Anderson researches (for example,
at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/eternity/node4.html).

But Ryan's comments leave me with some questions:


At 3:11 AM -0800 1/11/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:

>If I find investors/customers/etc. by March-July 98 for Eternity DDS, though,
>I'm planning to buy 8 DEC AlphaPC motherboards with dual 21264 processors.
>Some pieces of Eternity DDS are now being implemented in Oracle for
>speed of implementation reasons, and other pieces are being prototyped
>in Scheme (maybe), so even my K6 is getting hammered.  Plus, I'm now testing

Will these be located in the U.S.? Will their locations be publicized? Will
any offshore (non-U.S.) locations be publicized?

Any file system which can be identified as to *location in some legal
jurisdiction*, espeically in the U.S. but also probably in any
OECD/Interpol-compliant non-U.S. locations, will be subject to COMPLETE
SEIZURE under many circumstances:

* if any "child porn" is found by zealous prosecutors to be on the system(s)

* if any "national security violations" are found to be on the system(s)

* if the Software Publisher's Association (SPA) decides or determines that
the Eternity systems are being used for "warez" or other copyright
violations.

In addition, the file systems may be "discoverable" in any number of other
legal situations, and of course subject to subpoenas of all sorts. And
subject to court orders to halt operations, to participate in government
stings, and so on.

Basically, anything a remailer in some country may be subjected
to--lawsuits by Scientology, kiddie porn charges, espionage charges,
etc.--will be something an Eternity server is also subject to.

Except that an Eternity file system is more clearly just a file storage
system, like a filing cabinet or a storage locker, and hence is readily
interpreted in courts around the world as something that law enforcement
may seize, paw through, admit in court, etc. (Remailers are slightly better
protected, for both reasons of "transience" and reasons of some protection
under privacy laws, the ECPA, etc. We have not seen any major court orders
directed at remailers, but I expect them soon. In any case, a file system
containing "warez," child porn, corporate trade secrets, national security
violations, defamatory material, etc., would not be ignored for long.)

So, the talk about the hardware of all these Alpha servers raises some
interesting questions.

I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above)
system would involve:

- nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers

- no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers,  prosecutors, etc.)

- changeable nodes, again, a la remailers

- smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes

- CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely

- purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus

(I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)

It may be that the architectures/strategies being considered by Ryan
Lackey, Adam Back, and others are robust against the attacks described
above.

Basically, if the Eternity service(s) can be traced back to Ryan or Adam or
anyone else, they WILL be subject to court orders telling them to produce
certain files, telling them to cease and desist with regard to certain
distributions, and so on. Even raids to carry off the entire file system
for analysis will be likely.

Consider the Steve Jackson Games case, the Thomas/Amateur Action case, the
Riverside/Alcor case, and other raids which have seized computers and file
systems. Though some of these were later overturned, there was no general
protection granted that a file system, which is like a filing cabinet (of
course) is miraculously exempt from court action.

It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
of the service, or who want such services shut down. Thus, expect all kinds
of extremely controversial material to be posted....granted, this is a
"reason" for such services, but see how long the system lasts when it
contains child porn, Scientology secrets, lists of CIA agents in Europe,
copies of Microsoft Office for download, and on and on.

And even a decentralized, replicated system will of course still expose the
owner/operator in some jurisdiction to his local laws. (As Julf was exposed
to the laws in his country, and that was just the tip of the iceberg.)

Eternity nodes must not be identifiable, and their locations must not be
known. Anything else is just asking for major trouble.

Comments?



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 09:47:01 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:47:01 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801111813.MAA18576@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:39:00 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Eternity Services

> under privacy laws, the ECPA, etc. We have not seen any major court orders
> directed at remailers, but I expect them soon.

Tell that to Julf.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From steve at playgal.com  Mon Jan 12 02:11:27 1998
From: steve at playgal.com (steve at playgal.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:11:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Special Announcement from Intertain and Playgal
Message-ID: <199801111434.JAA10601@playgal.com>


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From telcard at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jan 12 02:13:13 1998
From: telcard at worldnet.att.net (telcard at worldnet.att.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:13:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <9876569865.dre98755@savings.com>


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From anon at anon.efga.org  Sun Jan 11 11:27:31 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:27:31 +0800
Subject: Congratulations!
Message-ID: <29c1c353e00d6e916744745acc2ece93@anon.efga.org>



In a message dated 02:06 01/11/98 -0800, WebSoft Associates, wrote:
 
> We at WebSoft Associates (http://www.websoftassoc.com) would like to
> congratulate you on your recent selection by Inc. Magazine as
> one of the 500 fastest growing private companies in the United States.

Wow! The cypherpunks are a fucking business? Am I a stock holder?

Ha-fucking-ha!

Is this line supposed to convince us that this was a targeted e-mail and *not*
spam!   Normally I just trash this stuff, but I really got a kick out of
that.  I hope we can get to top 100 by the fall '98 












From guy at panix.com  Sun Jan 11 11:57:26 1998
From: guy at panix.com (Information Security)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:57:26 +0800
Subject: Dimitry Vulis need attention again
Message-ID: <199801111946.OAA02193@panix2.panix.com>



   >   Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP;
   >           id AA29722 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 98 10:24:07 -0500
   >   Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf)
   >   	via UUCP; Sat, 10 Jan 98 10:03:36 EST
   >   	for cypherpunks at toad.com
   >   To: cypherpunks at toad.com
   >   Subject: Re: your mail
   >   From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
   >   
   >   Anonymous  writes:
   >   
   >   > >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers
   >   > > writes:
   >   > >>On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote:
   >   > >>
   >   > >>I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.
   >   > >
   >   > >I think so too what's his email address?????
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >
   >   > >Anonymous304
   >   >
   >   > Uh, you subscribe to the list but you can't find Vulis' address? Just how
   >   > stupid are you?
   >   
   >   Guy Polis is indeed very stupid.  His former colleagues at J.P.Morgan
   >   and Salomon bros, where he used to be a consultant, remember him as
   >   a very stupid guy.

"Polis" is an arcane Scandanavian (sic) word for "Police".

That's as creative as Ukranian-Romainian-Gypsie Vulis can do.

Vulis couldn't even hack it in Manhatten, and had to leave.

His brother, Michael, said the family disowns Dimitry as the asshole
of the family line.

----

Regarding emailing Vulis to show him some appreciation: as you can see
from the headers, he is so disliked that he needs to connect to the
Net using UUCP!

   HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

And so, he has to download his mail before filtering/reading it, and
domain 'dm.com' is MX wild-carded to accept all references.

So, wouldn't it be funny if people started signed _him_ up for
Eureka, Russian Jewish Singles dating, etc?

Also, simply sending him largish missives will tie up his
poor UUCP link. So, if it doesn't violate your local TOS,
I think all of us should let Dr. Dim hear about it until
he cleans up his act.

---guy

   fool at dm.com fool at bwalk.dm.com gypsie at bwalk.dm.com MaysRevenge at bwalk.dm.com






From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Jan 11 12:08:50 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:08:50 +0800
Subject: A further thought on free markets & anarchy...
In-Reply-To: <199801110542.XAA16327@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111114033.008afae0@popd.ix.netcom.com>



If you begin by assuming that a free market will automagically acquire
someone with monopoly control who can prevent all competitors from acting,
you've got a rather different view of free markets than I do,
and you're basically assuming that anarchy is unmaintainable in economies,
from which the obvious conclusion is "so don't even try."
There are people who believe the same about political anarchy.

However, I don't see you presenting any reasoning for the belief
that a free market will become non-free and acquire a head.
Rather the opposite appears to have been the case in most environments
where the economic actors don't have political actors supporting
their bids for monopoly.

At 11:42 PM 1/10/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Given that anarchist don't support a 'head' in regards to human activities
>*and* that a free market monopolizes thus creating a 'head' it is clear 
>that if we apply the ideas of human society (ie political systems) to
>economics we derive a fundamental conflict, that a anarchist in the economic
>sphere is left with no choice but to agree that economic systems must be
>managed and creates a 'head' either by plan or monopolistic fiat.
>
>Therefore the original thesis that such political models are applicable to
>economic ones is flawed. It simply is not possible for an economic system to
>exhist without some sort of 'head' or guiding structure. This is
>fundamentaly at odds with the definition and spirit of anarchy.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Mon Jan 12 04:10:08 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:10:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980112083222.25625.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Jan 11 13:42:10 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:42:10 +0800
Subject: Adding SSL to things
In-Reply-To: <"Raymond D. Mereniuk"'s message of Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:05:03 +0000>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111132145.00883540@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 06:11 AM 1/11/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>Does anyone know of a way I can take a web server, say AOLserver, which
>does not support useful SSL, and also does not distribute source, and
>retrofit a useful 128-bit SSL implementation to it?  It has a C API, but
>I haven't looked at the API enough to see if I could do it within the API.
>Are there any proxies which could be stuck between the insecure server
>and the user (preferably with an ssh link between the servers) which could
>provide SSL proxy service?  It seems like this should be trivial to do,
>but I haven't tried yet, and I want to have some reedeming value for this
>post.]

Why not just get a server that _does_ have useful SSL support,
like Apache-SSL (for non-US freeware) or Stronghold (for US commercial use)?
There are workarounds out there for undersecure clients,
like SafePassage and some German Java applet, but that's the easy side.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From schear at lvdi.net  Sun Jan 11 15:15:32 1998
From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:15:32 +0800
Subject: GPS Jamming [FWD]
Message-ID: 



I think this might have been mentioned in a CP thread sometime back.  At least it should have ;-)

---------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:29:14 +0000
From: "Marcus L. Rowland" 
Subject: GPS Jamming

*New Scientist* (8 Jan 1998, http://www.newscientist.com) included an
article saying that a Russian company called Aviaconversia was offering a
4-watt GPS/Glonass jammer for less than $4000 at the September Moscow Air
Show. It says that it could stop civilian aircraft locking onto GPS signals
over a 200 Km radius; military aircraft would be harder to jam, but a more
powerful unit could be built.

The risks (terrorism etc.) are fairly obvious, and it's mentioned that it
would probably be easy to build one even if this company's product is
somehow removed from the market.

Marcus L. Rowland  http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/

-------------

GPS uses a wideband Direct Sequence Spread Rectum technology.  DSSS, as implemented in GSP, is excellent for distance an direction finding due to its inherent, very accurate, time base.  In order to conserve satellite power and provide a reasonable signal level at small (e.g., handheld) receivers, it spreads a low data rate signal over wide band, achieving a 63dB 'process gain' (equivalent to about a 2 million fold increase in receive signal level).  DSSS signals (in general) can be jammed by very narrow (e.g., CW or continuous wave) carriers, especially pulsed, with relatively modest power.  GPS includes significant provisions for anti-jam and although I haven't done a detailed analysis, I'd be surprised if a 4-watt transmitter would render a 200 km radius unfit for GPS navigation.

See "Spread Spectrum  Communications Handbook," ISBN 0-07-057629-7.

--Steve

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear              | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO                       | fax: (702) 658-2673
Lammar Laboratories       |
7075 West Gowan Road      |
Suite 2148                |
Las Vegas, NV 89129       | Internet: schear at lvdi.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------







From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Sun Jan 11 15:17:05 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:17:05 +0800
Subject: (eternity) mailing list and activity
In-Reply-To: <34B9327A.2AAEEF87@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199801112144.VAA00285@server.eternity.org>




[I've Cc'ed this to cypherpunks from discussion on eternity at internexus.net]

Jeff Knox  writes:
> I do have a few questions. I am curios as to how i would go about
> creating a domain service. If i wanted to start a domain service to
> server a domain i create like test.dom, how would i run a server to
> processes the request, and how would all the other servers around
> the world cooperate?

Firstly note that there are 3 (three) systems going by the name of
eternity service at present.  Ross Anderson coined the term, and his
paper which describes his eternity service, you should be able to find
somewhere on:

	http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/

Next, my eternity prototype which I put a bit of time into hammering
out last year in perl, borrows Ross's name of "eternity service", but
differs in design, simplifying the design by using USENET as the
distributed database / distribution mechanism rather than constructing
one with purpose designed protocols:

	http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/

And there is Ryan Lackey's Eternity DDS (where DDS stands for I
presume Distributed Data Store?).  I am not sure of the details of his
design beyond that he is building a market for CPU and disk space, and
building on top of a an existing database to create a distributed data
base accessible as a virtual web space (amongst other `views').  He
gave this URL in his post earlier today:

	http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/


To answer your question as applied to my eternity design, I will
describe how virtual domains are handled in my eternity server design
which is based on USENET as a distributed distribution medium.  A
proto-type implementation, and several operational servers are pointed
to at:
	
	http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/

In this design the virtual eternity domains are not based on DNS.
They are based on hash functions.

Really because it is a new mechanism for accessing information URLs
should perhaps have the form:

	eternity://test.dom/

Where a separate distributed domain name lookup database is defined,
and a distributed service is utilised to host the document space.
However because it is more difficult to update browsers to cope with
new services (as far as I know, if anyone knows otherwise, I'd like
pointers on how to do this), I have represented URLs of this form
with:

	http://test.dom.eternity/

This would enable you to implement a local, or remote proxy which
fetched eternity web pages, because you can (with netscape at least)
direct proxying on a per domain basis.  Using the non-existant top
level domain .eternity, you can therefore redirect all traffic for
that `domain' to a local (or remote) proxy which implements the
distributed database lookup based on URL, and have normal web access
continue to function.

My current implementation is based on CGI binaries, so does not work
directly as an eternity proxy.  Rather lookups are of the form:

	http://foo.com/cgi-bin/eternity.cgi?url=http://test.dom.eternity/

The virtual eternity URLs (URLs of the form http://*.eternity/*) are
converted into database index values internally by computing the SHA1
hash the URL, for example:

SHA1( http://test.dom.eternity/ ) = d7fa999054ba70e1ed28665938299061b519a4f7

The database is USENET news, and a distributed archive of it; the
database index is stored in the Subject field of the news post.

The implementation optionally keeps a cache of news articles indexed
by this value on eternity servers.  If the required article is not in
the cache it is searched for in the news spool.

Currently this is where it stops, so articles would have to be
reposted periodically to remain available if articles are either not
being cached, or are flushed from the cache.

However the cache is never flushed, because the cache replacement
policy is not currently implemented.

An improvement over this would be to add a random cache flushing
policy and have servers serve the contents of their cache to each
other forming a distributed USENET news article cache.

Another option would be to search public access USENET archives such
as dejanews.com for the requested article.


The problem is really that we would prefer not to keep archives of
articles directly on an open access server, because the server's disks
could be seized, and the operator could be held liable for the
presence of controversial materials.

Wei Dai suggested that documents should be secret split in a redundant
fashion so that say 2 of 5 shares are required to reconstruct the
document.  If the shares are distributed across different servers,
this ensures that one server does not directly hold the information.

Ross describes ideas on how to ensure that a server would not know
what shares it is holding in his paper which can be found on his web
pages, the url being linked from:

	http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/

Adam






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Sun Jan 11 15:17:27 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:17:27 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801112306.XAA00525@server.eternity.org>




Tim May  writes:

[ Ryan Lackey on proposed hardware setup for his Eternity DDS ]

> Will these be located in the U.S.? Will their locations be
> publicized? Will any offshore (non-U.S.) locations be publicized?
> 
> Any file system which can be identified as to *location in some legal
> jurisdiction*, espeically in the U.S. but also probably in any
> OECD/Interpol-compliant non-U.S. locations, will be subject to COMPLETE
> SEIZURE under many circumstances:
> 
> * if any "child porn" is found by zealous prosecutors to be on the system(s)

I think child porn is pretty much the canonical example -- the spooks
/ feds have a history of posting their own child porn if none is
available to seize.  (eg The Amateur Action BBS case which Tim cites
classic case -- the Thomases had not had any dealings with child porn,
but a US postal inspector mailed some to them, and busted them for it
before they had even opened the package.  They are still in jail
now.)

An article which got forwarded to cypherpunks a while back was a URL
for some people who had created a for-pay web service which consisted
soley of hypertext links to child porn articles in usenet.  I never
did investigate (the worry is always that it is a sting in itself, and
I was interested in the techniques not the material), but it is
interesting that these people considered this action safe enough for
the monetary rewards to compensate.  

(Anyone save this post / URL, or know if these people are still in
business, or what technique they used to be able to generally link to
USENET articles... is it possible to link to
news:alt.anonymous.messages/message-id in a way which is independent
of news spool?)


I agree with Tim that actually building distributed file systems where
data can be traced back to the server serving it will cause problems
for the operators.  I think even if there are many operators, and even
if the data is secret split, the operators would likely be held
liable.

Ross's paper describes some techniques for building a distributed
database which makes it difficult for a server to discover what it is
serving.  (Necessary because an attacker will become a server operator
if this helps him).


The threat of seizure is the reason that I focussed on using USENET as
a distributed distribution mechanism.  All sorts of yucky stuff gets
posted to USENET every day, and USENET seems to weather it just fine.

The idea of using new protocols, and new services as Ross's paper
describes is difficult to acheive a) because the protocols are more
complex and need to be realised, and b) because you then face
deployment problems with an unpopular service and supporting protocols
who's only function is to facilitate publishing of unpopular
materials.


So I focussed on USENET, but the weakness of using USENET for building
a distributed database where data is intended to persist for
protracted periods of time is that USENET articles expire, existing in
news spools often for only 3 days or so.  The problem is really that
USENET is essentially a distributed _distribution_ mechanism, and not
a distributed database.

Archiving USENET as a separable enterprise which charges for access
(altavista for example charges via advertisements) seems less
problematic than directly trying to build a database of controversial
materials.  Archiving it all partly reduces your liability I think,
because you are not being selective, you just happen to have a
business which archives USENET.  However there are two problems with
this: a) volume -- USENET daily volume is huge; b) the censors will
ask you to remove articles they object to from the archive.

The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of
persistance, because the eternity server will fetch the most recent
version currently available in the news spool.  This avoids
centralised servers which would become subject to attack, all that is
left is a local proxy version of an eternity server which reads news
from an ordinary news spool.

My current implementation is a CGI binary which is currently running
as a remote eternity server.  You can run it as a local eternity
server if you have a local UNIX box, running say linux.

Better would be a more general local proxy for other platforms.  I am
working on this local proxy version at present.  This is the state of
play for me.


The reposter will be either the publisher of the article, or a
reposting agent.  In either case remailers can be used.

Remailer resistance to attack has improved a lot since some of the
remailers started using disposable hotmail etc accounts as exit nodes
-- the remailer is no longer traceable without a much higher resources
being spent by the attacker.  Using a chain of mixmaster remailers,
and a remailer using hotmail for delivery provides good anonymity.

> I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above)
> system would involve:
> 
> - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers

Better to have no nodes at all, as with USENET only solution.  The
reposting agent (which may be the publisher, or interested reader if
they are fulfilling the role of reposting agent) is a node of sorts,
however this node can be replicated, can move frequently, and only
ever need communicate via remailers.

> - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers,  prosecutors, etc.)

This one is crucial.

> - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers
>
> - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes
> 
> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely

This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the
distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were
amongst the documents.  Were you thinking of 

> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus
>
> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)

This is the best option.  Make it entirely distributed, so there is no
nexus, period.  cyberspacial -> meatspace mappings are often easier to
trace than we would wish, especially where there is continued usage
(for example there are various active attacks which can make progress
even against mixmaster remailers).  This is the weak point of my
reposting agent, be that human, or automated.

However anonymous interchangeable reposting agents is an interesting
concept.  One way to view the reposting function would be to view it
as a new function for remailers; that they would post a message a
specified number of times at specified intervals.

However it is probably better to separate the function into a separate
agent because remailers are known, and few in number.  A reposting
agent need never advertise an address.  Instructions to the agent
would be via USENET (it would read news for instructions and eternity
documents bundled with ecash payment for it's services, and repost
these according to those instructions).  The reposting agents would be
motivated by profit, have reasonable chances at obscuring their
identity through the use of remailers, and so would be willing to take
the risks.  A smart operator could further reduce risks by using
resources intermittently and unpredictably, and by using multiple,
automated entry nodes into the remailer net.

Potentially agents could be left operating in cracked accounts,
siphoning payments off to their owners, at fairly low risk to the
owner.

Agents could be rated for reliability in delivering services paid for,
or payment could be enabled for each repost by a arbitration agent
upon seeing the post.

> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
> of the service, or who want such services shut down. 

I agree with this prediction.  Remailers have seen this pattern, with
`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial
materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves,
etc.

As you might guess part of the above are unimplemented.  The local
proxy is my current task.  Reposting agents are unimplemented, as is
integration of payment.


Another comment is that reader anonymity is a separable aim which
should be cleanly separated from the design.  Services like
anonymizer, crowds, pipenets, SSL encrypted news server access
(supported by netscape 4), and local news feed can ensure anonymous
access to eternity document space at varying cost trade-offs.

Adam
-- 
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: <34B9572E.49F34FBA@avana.net>



Tim May wrote:

> I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above)
> system would involve:
> 
> - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers
> 
> - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers,  prosecutors, etc.)
> 
> - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers
> 
> - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes
> 
> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely
> 
> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus
> 
> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)
> 
> It may be that the architectures/strategies being considered by Ryan
> Lackey, Adam Back, and others are robust against the attacks described
> above.
>
> ...
> 
> Comments?

There is one thing that comes to mind that was just a topic covered on
this
list and that is the use of cellular/wireless/RF/ham for connections to
said machines.

Obviously, this would make seizure more difficult (and perhaps increase
the
likelyhood of prior warning, if for example, cellular service was
suddenly
cut off).

I am currently studying some parallels between the established FCC
tolerance
of ham radio self-regulation vis-a-vis anonymous remailers.  I haven't
yet
drawn up my opinions, as they are still being formed.  I think that this
might be one avenue to look down as there is obviously a type of legal
precident in what is allowed/tolerated under obvious FCC jursidiction,
whereas the jurisdiction over IP is obviously still ambiguous.
 
--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad

Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system.






From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 15:47:45 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:47:45 +0800
Subject: A further thought on free markets & anarchy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801120013.SAA19485@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:40:33 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: A further thought on free markets & anarchy...

> If you begin by assuming that a free market will automagically acquire
> someone with monopoly control who can prevent all competitors from acting,
> you've got a rather different view of free markets than I do,

First, it isn't magic. It is the realization that any market is limited by
several factors (eg number of customers, limited raw resources, startup
costs) and that even a small superiority in one businesses ability to
produce their service or product over time will provide them with an
increased share of those limited resources and the share in profits that
acrue as a result. As their share, and hence their control over, those
resources increases the competitors are faced with the prospect of having
to go to the competitor to get what they need in order to compete.

It is *not* a part of any free market theory that I am aware of that
pre-supposes that a given business entity will, for whatever reason, of its
own free will guarantee the continued existance of competition. If anything
the long term goal of any business is to reduce competition.

If we accept the commen view of free markets and the one you seem to be
saying is the reality, we shouldn't worry about Microsoft. One morning
they'll all wake and realize that if they don't keep HP, Sun, IBM, Apple
in business they won't have competition. As a consequence of that
realization they will in fact provide contracts or other forms of
renumeration to their competitors to keep them in business and hence able to
take potential sales away from Microsoft.

What I am saying is given the environment and goals of operating a
for-profit firm the supposition that a free market will somehow prevent
monopolization is incorrect. I am saying that a free market economy when
operating without outside 3rd party guidance or some form of economic bill
of rights will by its very nature monopolize and reduce competition due to
nothing more than minute superiorities of individual business models and
the efficiency those businesses acrue over time as a result.

> and you're basically assuming that anarchy is unmaintainable in economies,
> from which the obvious conclusion is "so don't even try."

But the free market model as currently understood is an anarchy, at least at
the beginning. The reason that it falls into this category is that there is
no governing body or bill of rights. Each business is left to its own ends
and the consequences thereof. There are no externaly enforced limitations on
business practices in this model. Further, regulation of unfair (whatever
that means in a free market - personaly I thinks its a spin doctorism
equivalent to saying you can have an anarchy without inherent use of
violence) practices is completely abandoned other than the assumption that
eventualy competitors and consumers will learn of those practicies and quite
dealing with that business. The problem with that assumption is that by the
time such practices become known there may be no competitors and the consumers
only option might be to simply have to do without the item completely. In
the case of a life sustaining resource this is no option at all.

> There are people who believe the same about political anarchy.

The point I am making is that the arguments that support political models of
social activity are not mappable to the economic ones in a simple one-to-one
method as the free market model (and many others) assume in a axiomatic
manner. That in fact, because of the inherent limitations of a market which
is not one-to-one mappable to the range of human expression (the field of
social systems) which has no inherent limitations in resources or means
such comparisons are flawed by this axiomatic assumption.

> However, I don't see you presenting any reasoning for the belief
> that a free market will become non-free and acquire a head.

The history of economics is filled with examples of markets without
regulation becoming monopolized. There was the example yesterday or the day
before regarding some rail baron and how they cornered the oil market
because they realized the efficiency advantage of using rail based oil
carriers. Look at Microsoft, the airlines prior to federal regulation.
The the long-haul trucking industry, the teamsters, etc., etc.

> Rather the opposite appears to have been the case in most environments
> where the economic actors don't have political actors supporting
> their bids for monopoly.

Microsoft certainly didn't have political supperiorty? And how can you in
good faith sneak in this concept of 'political superiority' into a discussion
of free markets which a priori and in an axiomatic manner require that such
regulation and their inherent regulatory bodies do *not* exist and most
certainly do not inhibit or otherwise limit the options available to a
commerical enterprise in that market. Smacks of changing the rules in the
middle of the game.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 15:47:48 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:47:48 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801111813.MAA18576@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 



Jim Choate  writes:

> > From: Tim May 
>
> > under privacy laws, the ECPA, etc. We have not seen any major court orders
> > directed at remailers, but I expect them soon.
>
> Tell that to Julf.

I recall that it was a police request, not a court order, not that it makes
much difference.

However the difference between Julf's remailer and the chained remailers is
that Julf's machine actually contained the database of the real addresses
and anon aliases.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From tcmay at got.net  Sun Jan 11 15:52:03 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:52:03 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 3:06 PM -0800 1/11/98, Adam Back wrote:

>Archiving USENET as a separable enterprise which charges for access
>(altavista for example charges via advertisements) seems less
>problematic than directly trying to build a database of controversial
>materials.  Archiving it all partly reduces your liability I think,
>because you are not being selective, you just happen to have a
>business which archives USENET.  However there are two problems with
>this: a) volume -- USENET daily volume is huge; b) the censors will
>ask you to remove articles they object to from the archive.

News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet
censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor
cancellations (and some don't).  Some don't carry the "sensitive"
newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from
child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is
exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including
the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City.


>The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
>Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of

This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse
set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and
when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as
a spammer. :-) )

>> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely
>
>This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the
>distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were
>amongst the documents.  Were you thinking of
>

The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data
widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or
"euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want
suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step.

Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out
at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and
various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets
and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general.

If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of
course other considerations come into play.

(Critical to these "Eternity" things is a good model of the customers, the
reasons for the data, etc.)



>> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus
>>
>> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)
>
>This is the best option.  Make it entirely distributed, so there is no
>nexus, period.  cyberspacial -> meatspace mappings are often easier to
>trace than we would wish, especially where there is continued usage
>(for example there are various active attacks which can make progress
>even against mixmaster remailers).  This is the weak point of my
>reposting agent, be that human, or automated.

My model, contained in the actual working software (*), allowed customers
to pick some topic, enclose a public key and payment, use a remailer to
post, then collect the information some time later. Using Usenet, but not
by reposting the actual data. Only pointers.

(* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to
demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I
demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for
one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that
Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or
escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these
applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work
adequately.)

How these models will work using existing infrastructure (Usenet,
remailers, Web proxies, etc.) depends on some factors. It might be useful
to consider some benchmark applications, such as:

1. Anonymous purchase of financially important data. (A good example being
the Arbitron ratings for radio markets...subscription to Arbitron is quite
expensive, and posting of results on Usenet is prosecuted by Arbitron. A
good example of a BlackNet market.)

2. Anonymous purchase of long articles, e.g., encycopedia results...

(I'm not sure there's still a market for this....)

3. Anonymous purchase of "term papers." (A thriving market for ghostwritten
articles...already migrating to the Web, but lacking adequate anonymizing
methods.)

This is an example of a very large data base (all term papers on file)
which cannot possibly by distributed feasibly by Usenet.

And so on...lots of various examples.

The whole Eternity thing is interesting, but we haven't made a lot of
progress, it seems to me. (I distributed a proposal a bit similar to what
Ross Anderson was proposing, a proposal more oriented toward making a
_persistent_ Web URL for academics and lawyers to reliably cite, with less
of the "404--File Not Found" sorts of messages, the things which make the
Web largely unusable for academic and scientific citations.)


>> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
>> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
>> of the service, or who want such services shut down.
>
>I agree with this prediction.  Remailers have seen this pattern, with
>`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial
>materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves,
>etc.

Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service"
will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order.

Building a data base, as Ryan comments seem to indicate he is mostly
interested in doing, is the least of the concerns.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From tcmay at got.net  Sun Jan 11 16:13:29 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:13:29 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 3:35 PM -0800 1/11/98, David Miller wrote:

>There is one thing that comes to mind that was just a topic covered on
>this
>list and that is the use of cellular/wireless/RF/ham for connections to
>said machines.
>
>Obviously, this would make seizure more difficult (and perhaps increase
>the
>likelyhood of prior warning, if for example, cellular service was
>suddenly
>cut off).

In terms of "work factor," such connections are nearly worthless. They
might be a bit harder to trap or trace than typical connections, but they
are only "security through obscurity" compared to the effort to break a
typical cipher.

(Put another way, would you feel safe hosting a child porn site just
because some of the links were over ham radio or the like? I wouldn't. I'd
be waiting for the FCC vans to triangulate....or for the cellphone
companies to "cooperate," as they so often have.)


--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From dm0 at avana.net  Sun Jan 11 16:44:04 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:44:04 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34B96667.28BD98CB@avana.net>



Tim May wrote:
 
> In terms of "work factor," such connections are nearly worthless. They
> might be a bit harder to trap or trace than typical connections, but they
> are only "security through obscurity" compared to the effort to break a
> typical cipher.

Even if the signals can be distributed on par with the distribution
of the data itself?  Could this be a 'meta' application that has not
been
considered?  Perhaps not, because sigint analysis normally increases an
attacker's intelligence on the subject and doesn't decrease it.

> (Put another way, would you feel safe hosting a child porn site just
> because some of the links were over ham radio or the like? I wouldn't. I'd
> be waiting for the FCC vans to triangulate....or for the cellphone
> companies to "cooperate," as they so often have.)

No, I wouldn't either.  Your point here indicates that whereas
historically
privacy was increased through movement, the reverse may be true now or
at least at some future date.  Namely, that entities are (or will be)
tracked by their movement and not simply location.

--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad

Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system.






From anon at squirrel.owl.de  Sun Jan 11 16:44:04 1998
From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:44:04 +0800
Subject: Spam
Message-ID: <3092d7f2431e74ea40b5d0ad22244ca3@squirrel>



Matthew L Bennett  wrote:

>>I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out
>>more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does
>>in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so,
>>I'm not sure how to find that out.  If he doesn't, is
>>there anything I can do?
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Yeah, there is.
>
>Delete the friggin e-mail like a sensible person.
>
>I get a lot of spam every day, but I just delete it and go on with my
>life.

Since even many of the major sites these days seem to be run by a bunch of
idiots who don't care that they destroy the network so long as they make a
buck. 

1) Trash mail from throwaway account providers like Juno (which I notice
you're using), Hotmail, AOL, Prodigy, MSN, and anybody who offers something
like a "fifty hours free spamming" policy.
2) Trash mail from chronic problem sites like AGIS, Earthlink, Worldnet, and
their ilk.
3) If you get a flame for a civilized spam complaint (zippo.com did this to
me) trash the mail from the site on the grounds that they're idiots.
4) If you get an incredibly stupid set of responses like I got from IBM
today kill mail from them on the grounds that they have no idea what they're
doing.
5) If it comes in with an obviously forged address then trash it. This has
the possibly beneficial side effect of killing mail from "legitimate" users
who purposefully use invalid addresses.
6) If it uses a relay site in one domain but comes from another trash it. A
good example would be spam mail which is relayed off of someplace.com.au but
has a "From" header which points to someplace.edu.tw, and has some other
received lines which point to a dialup at MCI.
7) If it overuses punctuation in the subject line such as "!!!!!" then trash
it.
8) If it comes in with a bunch of bogus IP addresses in the header then
trash it.
9) If it's in HTML then trash it.
10) If it has lines over 80 characters nuke it.
11) If it comes in more than twice nuke it.






From ravage at ssz.com  Sun Jan 11 17:05:19 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:05:19 +0800
Subject: unit1.html
Message-ID: <199801120129.TAA19851@einstein.ssz.com>



   Unit 1: The Scope and Method of Economics [INLINE] UNDER CONSTRUCTION
   
   Read "Case and Fair": Chapter 1 - pages 1-20.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     A. Definition of Economics
     
     Economics is the study of how individuals and societies choose to
     use the scarce resources that nature and previous generations have
     provided.
     
     The key word in this definition is "choose".
     
     Economics is a behavioral science.
     
     In large measure it is the study of how people make choices.
     
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     B. Why study economics?
     
     1. To learn a way of thinking: This summer we are going to learn to
     think like economists - to use tools that will help us analyze
     complex situations in the real world of economics.
     
     2. To understand society: Past and present economic decisions have
     an influence on the character of life in a society.
     
     3. To understand global affairs: Understanding international
     relations begins with knowledge of the economic links among
     countries.
     
     4. To be an informed voter: When you participate in the political
     process, you are voting on issues that require a basic understanding
     of economics.
     
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     C. The difference between micro and macro economics
     
     Microeconomics deals with the functioning of individual industries
     and the behavior of individual economic decision-making units -
     business firms and households. It explores the decisions that
     individual businesses and consumers make - firms' choices about what
     to produce and how much to charge, and households' choices about
     what and how much to buy.
     
     Macro economics looks at the economy as a whole. Instead of trying
     to understand what determines the output of a single firm or
     industry, or the consumption patterns of a single household or group
     of house holds, it examines the factors that determine national
     output and income.
     
     While micro economics focuses on individual product prices, macro
     economics looks at the overall price level and its behavior over
     time.
     
     Micro economics questions how many people will be hired or laid off
     in a particular industry and the factors that determine how much
     labor a firm or industry will hire. Macro economics deals with
     aggregate employment and unemployment: how many jobs exist in the
     economy as a whole, and how many people are willing to work but
     unable to find jobs..
     
     We are going to be using this word "aggregate" a lot. It refers to
     the behavior of firms and households taken together. For example,
     aggregate consumption refers to the consumption of all the
     households in the economy; aggregate investment refers to the total
     investment made by all firms in the economy.
     
     There are some topics which micro and macro economics share.
     
     For example, the study of how government policy affects the economy.
     
     However, again micro economics looks at these effects on the level
     of the individual firm or household, macro economics considers the
     effects of policy on the economy as a whole..
     
     The micro economic foundations of macro economics.
     
     There is also another important relationship between the two
     branches of economics and this is what is called the micro economic
     foundations of macro economics. This is a fairly new development and
     one which is trying to reconcile the assumptions and principles of
     micro economic analysis with efforts to understand the economy as a
     whole.
     For example, in efforts to understand inflation, macro economists
     are now trying to include micro economic ideas about the way that
     prices adjust to changes in supply and demand..
     
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     D. The relationship between economics and social philosophy. One of
     the first economists was an Englishman by the name of Adam Smith.
     (Some would say he was the first economist.)
     Born in the early part of the 18th century, Smith developed the idea
     of the "invisible hand" and was the first to describe the
     relationship between supply and demand in a free market economy. He
     described himself as a "social philosopher".
     
     Social philosophy is concerned with fairness. It deals with
     questions such as:
     Why are some people rich and others poor?
     Is it fair that 90% of the country's wealth is controlled by 5% of
     the population?
     Is the progressive income tax, which taxes a higher proportion of
     the income of the wealthy, fair?
     These questions are still relevant and are the subject of economic
     policy.
     
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     E. Economic Policy
     
     A policy is a plan that guides action.
     
     An example of an economic policy would be the Federal government's
     plan to keep the economy working at full employment.
     Anyone can recommend macro economic policies but it is up to
     governments to implement them.
     
     In general we judge the outcomes of any policy according to four
     criteria:
     
     1. Efficiency: In economics we say that a policy is efficient if it
     leads to outcomes that help the economy produce what people want at
     the least possible cost.
     
     2. Equity or fairness: This is obviously hard to define because
     fairness like beauty depends on who's looking, but in general terms
     we could say that an economic policy is fair if it leads to outcomes
     in which the costs and benefits are shared in a way that is
     proportional to a person's participation.
     
     3. Growth: At the present time economic policies are also judged
     according to whether or not they lead to increases in output. I say
     "at present" because some economists are beginning to question the
     assumption that economic growth is always a good thing.
     
     4. Stability: In economics stability is defined as the condition of
     the economy in which output is growing at a steady rate, with low
     inflation and full employment. Currently, the Federal Reserve is
     defining stability as a growth rate of about 3%, with inflation
     between 2% and 3% and unemployment between 5% and 6%.
     
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     F. What economists do. In addition to making policy recommendations,
     economists spend a lot of time formulating theories and developing
     models. These two words have more or less the same meaning in
     economics that they do in other academic disciplines.
     
     A theory is a coherent set of hypotheses which make statements about
     the way the world works.
     
     To illustrate this idea of theory, the text refers to what is known
     as "the law of demand". This so-called law is really just a
     well-tested hypothesis which states that when prices fall, people
     tend to buy more, and vice versa.
     
     A theory is said to be "good" if its hypotheses turn out to valid
     statements about the real world and if it has predictive power.
     
     I should say at this point that very few economic theories,
     particularly in macro economics, have predictive power.
     
     A model is just a formal statement of the theory, usually a
     mathematical statement.
     
     Several institutions have built huge models of the US economy and
     how it works that have hundreds of equations linked together. These
     big models usually run on computers. When we visit the Federal
     Reserve in San Francisco we will see one of these models in action.
     We will also be working with a number of smaller models and a large
     number of pictures of models.
     
     
     
     The text points out two common errors that are made when people
     develop theories or build models. These are:
     
     1. The post hoc fallacy: This mistake is made when someone mistakes
     an association between two variables for a cause and effect
     relationship. My favorite example of this is taken from a study done
     in Holland at the end of WWII which showed a positive relationship
     between the number of storks inhabiting a certain city and the
     number of babies born.
     
     2. The fallacy of composition: This has to do with the belief that
     what is true for the part is also true for the whole. There are many
     examples of this kind of thinking in economics. For example, we have
     seen over a very long period of time the benefits of free markets -
     the efficiencies in individual markets that are created whenever
     people are free to pursue their own self-interest. However, it might
     be a mistake to assume that pursuit of one's own self interest was
     the best thing for society as a whole.
     
     You cannot prove a theory.
     
     It is important to note that neither theories nor models can ever be
     proved beyond the shadow of a doubt. The best we can say of a theory
     is that it is consistent with the facts as currently observed and
     that it is seems to have predictive power.
     
     Another fact about theories is that they are always based on certain
     assumptions which have to be accepted for the theory to work.
     
     For example, in economic theory two of the most important
     assumptions are (1) that people make rational choices based on
     analyzing costs and benefits and (2) that people try to maximize
     utility.
     
     Another important assumption that is rarely discussed is that the
     world of economics can be understood by understanding the behavior
     of discrete variables.
     
     All of these assumptions are now under attack.
     
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     
     
     G. Other Important Concepts Introduced in Chapter 1
     
     1. Opportunity Cost: This can be understood as the cost of lost
     opportunities. An example would be the opportunity cost of coming to
     Skyline this summer. This cost is measured by the wages I could have
     been earning if I had decided to work instead.
     
     The reason that opportunity costs exist is because resources are
     scarce; it is an especially important concept in economics where we
     are often trying to measure the costs and benefits of different
     economic choices, policies, etc.
     
     2. Marginal: This refers to the "last unit" and is also an important
     factor in making economic choices.
     
     For example, suppose the publisher of our textbook is trying to
     calculate the costs of producing more books. In making this
     calculation, Prentice Hall would only consider the marginal or
     additional costs of just these new books. The money they have
     already spent would be irrelevant. These are the sunk costs and even
     though they would be included in a calculation of average costs,
     they wouldn't influence the decision to produce additional books.
     
     3. Markets - free and regulated, efficient and inefficient:
     
     Markets can be free or regulated, efficient or inefficient. Most
     markets in the real economy represent some combination of these
     qualities.
     
     A market is said to be free if buyers and sellers are free to come
     together and make deals without government interference.
     
     A regulated market is one where the government sets at least some of
     the rules.
     
     For example, the stock market is relatively free - people can buy
     and sell shares of stock without much interference from the
     government. However, the Securities and Exchange Commission
     establishes many rules in this market, particularly for companies
     who wish to sell their stock.
     
     An efficient market is one in which there is a very rapid
     circulation of information and in which profit opportunities are
     grabbed up almost as soon as they appear. Inefficiencies arise
     wherever the flow of information is restricted and where people are
     not free to take advantage of profit opportunities.
     
     4. Ceteris Paribus: This is a Latin phrase which mean "all else
     equal" and refers to the difficulty of analyzing more than two
     variables at a time. It is trotted out by economists when they want
     to emphasize the fact that they are looking at a single
     relationship, holding everything else constant. For example, "The
     amount of a good or service that people want is inversely related to
     the price, ceteris paribus."
     
     The things that are held constant in this example are the tastes and
     preferences of consumers, the availability of substitutes etc.
     
   
   
   
   
     [LINK] Return to Econ 100 Home page
     
     [LINK] Problem Set for Unit 1
     
   






From tcmay at got.net  Sun Jan 11 17:16:06 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:16:06 +0800
Subject: BlackNet
Message-ID: 




Someone just asked me for an explanation of "BlackNet," as he hadn't heard
of it before. There are several places to look:

--a Web search on the term, along with "cypherpunks" or "cryptography" or
my name so as to narrow down the search somewhat (apparently some persons
of color decided to use BlackNet as their group's name, thus leading to
some collisions_

--archives of the list, partially available at
http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/

--my Cyphernomicon, available at
http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/

--another article, available at
http://www.powergrid.com/1.01/cryptoanarchy.html

--or, the item below, part of a chapter called "True Nyms and Crypto
Anarchy," which may or may not appear in the forthcoming edition of Vernor
Vinge's "True Names." This section discusses data havens, and the BlackNet
experiment in 1993:


DATA HAVENS AND INFORMATION MARKETS

Another science fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, popularized "data havens"
in his 1988 novel, "Islands in the Net." He focussed on _physical_ data
havens, but cyberspace data havens are more interesting, and to likely to
be more important. That they are distributed in many legal jurisdictions,
and may not even be traceable to any particular jurisdiction, is crucial.

A data haven is a place, physical or virtual, where information may be
stored or accessed. The usual connotation is that the data are illegal in
some jurisdictions, but not in the haven.

Data havens and information markets are already springing up, using the
methods described to make information retrievable anonymously and
untraceably. Using networks of remailers and, of course, encryption,
messages may be posted in public forums like the Usenet, and read by anyone
in the world with access, sort of like a cyberspatial "Democracy Wall"
where controversial messages may be posted. These "message pools" are the
main way cyberspatial data havens are implemented. Offers may be in
plaintext, so as to be readable to humans, with instructions on how to
reply (and with a public key to be used). This allows fully-untraceable
markets to develop.

It is likely that services will soon arise which archive articles for fees,
to ensure that a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) is "persistent" over a
period of many years. Ross Anderson's "Eternity Service" provides a means
of distributing the publication of something so that even later attempts to
withdraw all copies are thwarted...this has obvious value in fighting
censorship, but will also have implications when other types of publication
occur (for example, a pirated work would not be withdrawable from the
system, leaving it permanently liberated)

Examples of likely data haven markets are: credit data bases, doctor and
lawyer data bases, and other heavily-regulated (or even unallowed) data
bases. Information on explosives, drug cultivation and processing, methods
for suicide, and other such contraband info. Data havens may also carry
copyrighted material, sans payment to holders, and various national and
trade secrets.

As one example, the "Fair Credit Reporting Act" in the U.S. limits the
length of time credit records may be kept (to 7 or 8 years) and places
various restrictions on what may be collected or reported. What if Alice
"remembers" that Bob, applying for credit from her, declared bankruptcy ten
years earlier, and ran out on various debts? Should she be banned from
taking this into account? What if she accesses a data base which is _not_
bound by the FCRA, perhaps one in a data haven accessible over the Net? Can
Alice "sell" her remembrances to others? (Apparently not, unless she agrees
to the various terms of the FCRA. So much for her First Amendment rights.)
This is the kind of data haven application I expect will develop over the
next several years. It could be in a jurisdiction which ignores such things
as the FCRA, such as a Caribbean island nation, or it could be in
cyberspace,  using various cryptographic protocols, Web proxies, and
remailers for access.

Imagine the market for access to data bases on "bad doctors" and "rip-off
lawyers." There are many interesting issues involved in such data bases:
inaccurate information, responses by those charges, the basis for making
judgements, etc. Some will make malicious, false charges. (This is
ostensibly why such data bases are banned, or heavily regulated.
Governments reserve the rights to make such data available. Of course,
these are the same governments which falsify credit records for government
agents, which give the professional guilds like the American Medical
Association and the American Bar Association the power to stop competitors
from entering their markets, so what else can be expected?)

Information markets match potential buyers and sellers of information. One
experimental "information market" is BlackNet, a system I devised in 1993
as an example of what could be done, as an exercise in guerilla ontology.
It allowed fully-anonymous, two-way exchanges of information of all sorts.
The basic idea was to use a "message pool," a publicly readable place for
messages. By using chains of remailers, messages could be untraceably and
anonymously deposited in such pools, and then read anonymously by others
(because the message pool was broadcast widely, a la Usenet). By including
public keys for later communications, two-way unreadable (to others)
communication could be established, all within the message pool. Such an
information market also acts as a distributed data haven.

As Paul Leyland succinctly described the experiment:

"Tim May showed how mutually anonymous secure information trading could be
implemented with a public forum such as Usenet and with public key
cryptography.  Each information purchaser wishing to take part posts a
sales pitch and a public key to Usenet.  Information to be traded would
then have a public key appended so that a reply can be posted and the whole
encrypted in the public key of the other party.  For anonymity, the keys
should contain no information that links it to an identifiable person.  May
posted a 1024-bit PGP key supposedly belonging to "Blacknet".  As May's
purpose was only educational, he soon admitted authorship."

An example of an item offered for sale early on, in plaintext, was proof
that African diplomats were being blackmailed by the CIA in Washington and
New York. A public key for later communications was included. This is just
one example. There are reports that U.S. authorities have investigated this
market because of its presence on networks at Defense Department research
labs. Not much they can do about it, of course, and more such entities are
expected. The implications for espionage are profound, and largely
unstoppable. Anyone with a home computer and access to the Net or Web, in
various forms, can use these methods to communicate securely, anonymously
or pseudonymously, and with little fear of detection. "Digital dead drops"
can be used to post information obtained, far more securely than the old
physical dead drops...no more messages left in Coke cans at the bases of
trees on remote roads. Payments can also be made untraceably; this of
course opens up the possibility that anyone in any government agency may
act as a part-time spy.

Matching buyers and sellers of organs is another example of such a market,
although one that clearly involves some real-world transfers (and so it
cannot be as untraceable as purely cyberspatial transactions can be). A
huge demand (life and death), but there are various laws tightly
controlling such markets, thus forcing them into Third World nations.
Fortunately, strong cryptography allows market needs to be met without
interference by governments. (Those who are repelled by such markets are of
course free not to patronize them.)

Whistleblowing is another growing use of anonymous remailers, with those
fearing retaliation using remailers to publicly post  their incriminating
information. The Usenet newsgroups "alt.whistleblowing" and
"alt.anonymous.messages" are places where anonymously remailed messages
blowing the whistle have appeared. Of course, there's a fine line between
whistleblowing, revenge, and espionage. Ditto for "leaks" from
highly-placed sources. "Digital Deep Throats" will multiply, and anyone in
Washington, or Paris, or wherever, can make his case safely and anonymously
by digitally leaking material to the press. Gibson foresaw a similar
situation in "Count Zero," where employees of high tech corporations agree
to be ensconced in remote labs, disconnected from the Nets and other
leakage paths. We may see a time when those with security clearances are
explicitly forbidden from using the Net except through firewalled machines,
with monitoring programs running.

Information selling by employees may even take whimsical forms, such as the
selling of topless images of women who flashed for the video cameras on
"Splash Mountain" at Disneyland (now called "Flash Mountain" by some).
Employees of the ride swiped copies of the digital images and uploaded them
anonymously to various Web sites. Ditto for medical records of famous
persons.  DMV records have also been stolen by state employees with access,
and sold to information broker, private investigators, and even curious
fans (the DMV records of notoriously reclusive author Thomas Pynchon showed
up on the Net). Rumors are that information brokers are prepared to pay
handsomely for a CD-ROM containing the U.S. government's "key escrow" data
base.

The larger issue is that mere laws are not adequate to deal with these
kinds of sales of personal information, corporate information, etc. The
bottom line is this: if one wants something kept secret, it must be kept
secret. In a free society, few personal secrets are compelled.
Unfortunately, we have for too long been in a situation where governments
insist that people give out their true names, their various government
identification numbers, their medical situations, and so on. "And who
shall guard the guardians?" The technology of privacy protection can change
this balance of power. Cryptography provides for "personal empowerment," to
use the current phrasing.










From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org  Sun Jan 11 17:17:31 1998
From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:17:31 +0800
Subject: Congratulations!
In-Reply-To: <29c1c353e00d6e916744745acc2ece93@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 




Just don't smurf them. I'm sure their service providor wouldn't like 
that, and it isn't nice. You should just hit the delete key, and respect 
their right to freely express themselves.

p.s. - Thanks for the little white pills, Dr. Vulis. I'm feeling much 
happier now.

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> In a message dated 02:06 01/11/98 -0800, WebSoft Associates, wrote:
>  
> > We at WebSoft Associates (http://www.websoftassoc.com) would like to
> > congratulate you on your recent selection by Inc. Magazine as
> > one of the 500 fastest growing private companies in the United States.
> 
> Wow! The cypherpunks are a fucking business? Am I a stock holder?
> 
> Ha-fucking-ha!
> 
> Is this line supposed to convince us that this was a targeted e-mail and *not*
> spam!   Normally I just trash this stuff, but I really got a kick out of
> that.  I hope we can get to top 100 by the fall '98 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






From akasha at netsense.net  Sun Jan 11 17:23:42 1998
From: akasha at netsense.net (Akasha)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:23:42 +0800
Subject: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34B96FB1.46162042@netsense.net>





Tim May wrote:

> At 3:06 PM -0800 1/11/98, Adam Back wrote:
>
> >Archiving USENET as a separable enterprise which charges for access
> >(altavista for example charges via advertisements) seems less
> >problematic than directly trying to build a database of controversial
> >materials.  Archiving it all partly reduces your liability I think,
> >because you are not being selective, you just happen to have a
> >business which archives USENET.  However there are two problems with
> >this: a) volume -- USENET daily volume is huge; b) the censors will
> >ask you to remove articles they object to from the archive.
>
> News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet
> censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor
> cancellations (and some don't).  Some don't carry the "sensitive"
> newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from
> child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is
> exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including
> the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City.
>
> >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
> >Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of
>
> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse
> set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and
> when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as
> a spammer. :-) )
>
> >> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely
> >
> >This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the
> >distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were
> >amongst the documents.  Were you thinking of
> >
>
> The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data
> widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or
> "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want
> suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step.
>
> Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out
> at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and
> various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets
> and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general.
>
> If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of
> course other considerations come into play.
>
> (Critical to these "Eternity" things is a good model of the customers, the
> reasons for the data, etc.)
>
> >> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus
> >>
> >> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)
> >
> >This is the best option.  Make it entirely distributed, so there is no
> >nexus, period.  cyberspacial -> meatspace mappings are often easier to
> >trace than we would wish, especially where there is continued usage
> >(for example there are various active attacks which can make progress
> >even against mixmaster remailers).  This is the weak point of my
> >reposting agent, be that human, or automated.
>
> My model, contained in the actual working software (*), allowed customers
> to pick some topic, enclose a public key and payment, use a remailer to
> post, then collect the information some time later. Using Usenet, but not
> by reposting the actual data. Only pointers.
>
> (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to
> demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I
> demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for
> one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that
> Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or
> escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these
> applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work
> adequately.)
>
> How these models will work using existing infrastructure (Usenet,
> remailers, Web proxies, etc.) depends on some factors. It might be useful
> to consider some benchmark applications, such as:
>
> 1. Anonymous purchase of financially important data. (A good example being
> the Arbitron ratings for radio markets...subscription to Arbitron is quite
> expensive, and posting of results on Usenet is prosecuted by Arbitron. A
> good example of a BlackNet market.)
>
> 2. Anonymous purchase of long articles, e.g., encycopedia results...
>
> (I'm not sure there's still a market for this....)
>
> 3. Anonymous purchase of "term papers." (A thriving market for ghostwritten
> articles...already migrating to the Web, but lacking adequate anonymizing
> methods.)
>
> This is an example of a very large data base (all term papers on file)
> which cannot possibly by distributed feasibly by Usenet.
>
> And so on...lots of various examples.
>
> The whole Eternity thing is interesting, but we haven't made a lot of
> progress, it seems to me. (I distributed a proposal a bit similar to what
> Ross Anderson was proposing, a proposal more oriented toward making a
> _persistent_ Web URL for academics and lawyers to reliably cite, with less
> of the "404--File Not Found" sorts of messages, the things which make the
> Web largely unusable for academic and scientific citations.)
>
> >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
> >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
> >> of the service, or who want such services shut down.
> >
> >I agree with this prediction.  Remailers have seen this pattern, with
> >`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial
> >materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves,
> >etc.
>
> Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service"
> will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order.
>
> Building a data base, as Ryan comments seem to indicate he is mostly
> interested in doing, is the least of the concerns.
>
> --Tim May
>
> The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."



Please remove me from the mailing list.

Thanks






From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 18:48:16 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:48:16 +0800
Subject: Adding SSL to things
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111132145.00883540@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199801120241.VAA12033@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



AOLserver (formerly GNN's NaviServer) has better RDBMS integration features
than the apache crowd.  Phil Greenspun's site, www.photo.net, uses roughly
the same software I'm using (I asked him for advice, he swayed me from
Apache to AOLserver).  Once Apache has better Oracle integration, I might
go back to it, since I do like having source to as much as possible, but
right now, being able to easily and efficiently link Oracle to the web
server is a bit more important than source or simple to implement SSL.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		







From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Sun Jan 11 19:12:22 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:12:22 +0800
Subject: Spam
In-Reply-To: <3092d7f2431e74ea40b5d0ad22244ca3@squirrel>
Message-ID: <199801120305.VAA00843@manifold.algebra.com>



There are very good ways of filtering email, as well as methods
of "proper" exposure to email harvesting bots.

My suggestions are:

1. Create a "spam" mailbox that will be used to collect all email
that looks like spam. It is much easier to review this mailbox once in a
couple of days than to look at spam in the mail email mailbox.

2. Create one or more mailfolders for mailing lists you receive. Save
all mailing list messages to them. (you may want to save everything 
that was sent by *owner* as it is likely to be legitimate mailing
list messages).

3. Everything else that does NOT mention one of your legitimate addresses
is likely spam, and needs to be saves into the spam mailbox.

4. Keep a database of spamming patterns and spamming domains and save
everything matching these patterns to the spam mailbox. (my database is
attached below).

5. Post to USENET using an address that reaches you, but is different
from your email address.

Anything that comes in as sent to that address (usually Received: field 
contains the destination address) but does not start with Re: or is not
addressed to that address is spam, and needs to be saved into the spam
mailbox.

6. This will inevitably flag some legitimate messages as spam. Be careful
reviewing the spam mailbox.

igor

^From: trichosis at noci.com
^From:.*chaspub at onecom.com
^From:.*@news-release.com
^From:.*isp-inter.net
^To: All at Internet.Users
^From:.*success@
^From:.*orders at compugen.net
^From:.*dispatch at cnet.com
^Received:.*isp-inter.net
^From: distributor at jax.gulfnet.com
^From: NETDATA Intl Inc
^From ChrisMSW1 at aol.com
^Reply-To: phnxgrp
^From: sbear1 at earthlink.net
^From: .*@pwrnet.com
^From: gary at safetydisk.com
^Subject: How to get MORE ORDERS for ANYTHING you sell
^Subject: EL Cheepo Web pages
^Message-Id: Ready Aim Fire
^Message-Id: RAF
^Subject: Saw you Online\!
^Subject: THINNING HAIR
^From: express at capella.net
^From: .*fgle5 at ziplink.net
^From: .*softcell.net
^To: bubbac at webconnect.com
^Received: .*IQ-Internet.com
^From: freedom
^To: Friend at public.com
^To: .Recipient list suppressed.
^Received: .*Cyber Promotions
^From: money@
^From: rocket3 at ibm.net
^From: Svetlana 
^From: .*remove@
^From: .*@GettingRich.com
^Subject: .*README! It may change your life forever!
^X-Shocking-Web-Page:
^To: you@
^X-Advertisement:
^From: .*@shoppingplanet.com
^X-Mailer: Emailer Platinum
^From: dkg at sparrow.spearhead.net
^From: .*floodgate
^Igor Chudov @ home,
^Subject: Your Family Name






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Jan 11 19:23:04 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:23:04 +0800
Subject: Crypto Jokes
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980112032221.010342d4@pop.pipeline.com>



Inspired by "Crypto Kong," contributions of crypto jokes 
are requested, to enliven our Web site, which is pretty 
gray these days without congressional buffoonery. 

Thigh-slappers are preferred, but since one person's
humor is another's pain, any bizarre tales of woe,
stupidity and vanity are welcomed. Short as possible,
like Adam's three swines of pearl.

Sure, anonymous zingers are great. No pay, no
apologies for missing the point.







From kent at songbird.com  Sun Jan 11 19:23:19 1998
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:23:19 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <19980111191317.34304@songbird.com>



On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 03:34:58AM -0500, Matthew L Bennett wrote:
> >If we have to resort to physical violence, 
> >we've
> >already lost!
> 
> No, we wouldn't.  If we had to resort to physical violence against a
> government, than it needs it, you shouldn't need to do that if the
> Constitution is in effect.  Otherwise...
> 
> >Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we 
> >need
> >crypto?
> 
> Because holding up a PGP disk will not save your life if a
> robber/looter/IRS Agent breaks into your house.

Reread the question.

-- 
Kent Crispin, PAB Chair			"No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Jan 11 19:27:30 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:27:30 +0800
Subject: Crypto Jokes
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980112032616.006bd70c@pop.pipeline.com>



Inspired by "Crypto Kong," contributions of crypto jokes 
are requested, to enliven our Web site, which is pretty 
gray these days without congressional buffoonery. 

Thigh-slappers are preferred, but since one person's
humor is another's pain, any bizarre tales of woe,
stupidity and vanity are welcomed. Short as possible,
like Adam's three swines of pearl.

Sure, anonymous zingers are great. No pay, no
apologies for missing the point.







From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 19:28:40 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:28:40 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801120324.WAA12254@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


> 
> I haven't been following the latest round of "Eternity" discussions. I
> gather that Ryan's efforts are distinct from Adam Back's efforts, which are
> themselves distinct from the seminal Ross Anderson researches (for example,
> at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/eternity/node4.html).

Yes, all three efforts are distinct at present.  My "secret" plan is to try
to get a technical design document and demo which are so compelling that
in the end it merges into one Eternity project, though :)

> 
> But Ryan's comments leave me with some questions:
> 
> 
> At 3:11 AM -0800 1/11/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> 
> >If I find investors/customers/etc. by March-July 98 for Eternity DDS, though,
> >I'm planning to buy 8 DEC AlphaPC motherboards with dual 21264 processors.
> >Some pieces of Eternity DDS are now being implemented in Oracle for
> >speed of implementation reasons, and other pieces are being prototyped
> >in Scheme (maybe), so even my K6 is getting hammered.  Plus, I'm now testing
> 
> Will these be located in the U.S.? Will their locations be publicized? Will
> any offshore (non-U.S.) locations be publicized?

Hopefully I can allay your fears.

I want the alphas for testing and compiling during the not-yet-production
phase.  They'll be located in one place, subject to being shut down legally
or extralegally.  However, there will be no production data on them, so
there will be no reason to shut them down.  To attack them preemptively would
be less efficient than simply killing the maybe 20 people in the world
who are involved with Eternity development.

I want to have a cluster of machines on which to simulate a working eternity 
system.  I'm trying to develop interconnect protocols which scale to a large 
number of users with the minimum possible trust, no particularly vulnerable
points, etc.  Even me personally owning any substantial amount of machines
involved in a production Eternity implementation while living in the US would
be risky -- I want people to be able to continue to use Eternity even if I
turn out to be a secret NSA agent bent on world domination.  

> [vulnerability of any identified servers]

To this I add the threat of illegal action by enemies of users of the system, 
government or otherwise.  As a result, having *any* of the nodes be locatable
on a network or in physical space is a threat.  Knowing the IP addresses of
all the Eternity servers in the world would be enough to let you flood
them out of existence.

Unfortunately, in order for Eternity to be accessible to the world in some
way, some nodes need to have public logical addresses in some way.  This
opens up a bunch of pathways to attack.

Eternity DDS has market-based protocols to try to hinder these attacks.

> So, the talk about the hardware of all these Alpha servers raises some
> interesting questions.
> 
> I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above)
> system would involve:
> 
> - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers
> 
> - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers,  prosecutors, etc.)
> 
> - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers
> 
> - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes
> 
> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely
> 
> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus
> 
> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)

Yes, that's effectively what I'm trying to do.  Eternity DDS is currently
being developed on the "Athena model" as a bunch of interoperating services
with general utility as well.

During testing, I'm using stuff like Oracle to prototype large sections of the
application.  I've run hundreds of clients off my K6 talking to a couple of 
servers
on my K6.  This does not mean that the production system will involve my k6 in
any way, except perhaps as my client.

I think that Eternity is effectively a massive distributed database, in that a 
filesystem
is a kind of database.  I also think selling just storage is kind of silly -- 
one needs
to take into account bandwidth and computation as well, in order to allow 
people to
do truly interesting things.  With a sufficiently trusted JVM, one could 
execute some subset
of java code remotely fairly securely.  I'm planning to have interfaces to the 
Eternityspace
which make it look like a massive web server, a massive traditional database 
server, a filesystem,
ftp, email server, etc.  This helps functionality and security.

The design is a compromise between security and efficiency.  In many cases 
being
distributed is good for both, but in at least two areas, trying to make E-DDS 
distributed is making it less efficient.  I forsee that the initial limited
production system will have a nexus in that the auction market will probably
be run by my organization through a geographically-dispersed network of 
machines
with byzantine fault tolerance.  I also forsee an initial small number of nodes
interfacing Eternity DDS to the world (via the web, database protocols, 
filesystem
protocols, etc.).  While there will be encryption between those servers and 
their
clients, they will be targets for attack -- however, there are a bunch of 
techniques
for making them ephermeal, some of which you have mentioned.
> 
> It may be that the architectures/strategies being considered by Ryan
> Lackey, Adam Back, and others are robust against the attacks described
> above.

I hope so.
> 
> Basically, if the Eternity service(s) can be traced back to Ryan or Adam or
> anyone else, they WILL be subject to court orders telling them to produce
> certain files, telling them to cease and desist with regard to certain
> distributions, and so on. Even raids to carry off the entire file system
> for analysis will be likely.
> 

I hope to leave the country before Eternity DDS goes public.  I think raids
on US sites, or unprotected foreign sites, are highly likely, legal or 
otherwise.
I don't believe any government will provide any real defense for an identified
Eternity server or nexus or involved person, once it starts being used for
corporate espionage, money laundering, political activism, etc.  The only 
defense
is to make sure the collateral damage from taking it out is high enough that 
they
won't, like an inoperable tumor (a 10mm does a good job of removing most 
individual
cancer, but sometimes killing the patient is unacceptable)

Hopefully, the designers of the first production Eternity service can make 
themselves
irrelevant enough to not be worth killing, and/or difficult enough to kill 
that the
collateral damage from killing them would be unacceptable.

> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
> of the service, or who want such services shut down. Thus, expect all kinds
> of extremely controversial material to be posted....granted, this is a
> "reason" for such services, but see how long the system lasts when it
> contains child porn, Scientology secrets, lists of CIA agents in Europe,
> copies of Microsoft Office for download, and on and on.

Yes.  I'm designing for the worst.
> 
> And even a decentralized, replicated system will of course still expose the
> owner/operator in some jurisdiction to his local laws. (As Julf was exposed
> to the laws in his country, and that was just the tip of the iceberg.
 
I'm planning to move to the most laissez-faire location possible.  I also want
to make myself irrelevant once the system enters production (which does not
necessarily mean I won't try to get rich, just that if someone corrupts or
kills me it won't make any difference to the operation of the system).

> Eternity nodes must not be identifiable, and their locations must not be
> known. Anything else is just asking for major trouble.

I agree with you 100%.  There are technical considerations which come into play
defending eternity nodes from TA, other corrupt nodes, etc., but they are in 
the
main solvable.  The borders of the eternity logical network become exposed, 
but it
is possible to push those borders far enough out that it becomes the 
responsibilty of
other unwitting parties to shut them down.

My design goal is truly distributed and truly secure.  In order to take out 
eternity, I
hope to make it necessary for the attackers to take out the Internet, 
something even
overly communist regimes are unwilling to do.

I think Adam Back's Eternity implementation mostly meets the "lightweight nodes
which no one cares about" in theory, and if his assumption that usenet will not
be attacked is valid, it has met the "unacceptably high collateral damage"
criteria.  I'm somewhat unsure of that assumption, though.

Plus, the central difference between Eternity DDS and the other two Eternity
designs is that market forces will be used to give people an incentive to 
break the
law by running Eternity DDS servers secretly in Burma (both internal storage
nodes and throwaway interface nodes).  I think market forces are the only way 
to
get people to implement a large enough Eternity logical network to provide
protection from a concerted attack.

> 
> Comments?

More discussion would be great.  I think everyone agrees on the basic 
requirements
for Eternity implementation -- it's just a question of which compromises one 
must
make to technical expediency, as well as advanced technical methods one can use
to minimize those compromises.  

[Pseudo-ob-non-crypto: I apologize for sof.mit.edu's web server being dead for 
a while.  It
managed to wedge itself quite nicely, and I didn't find out about it until 
someone sent me
mail.  Again, I'm putting as much documentation as I can up on 
http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/]

- -- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		



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From Friend at public.com  Mon Jan 12 12:09:42 1998
From: Friend at public.com (Friend at public.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:09:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!
Message-ID: <24891738_24760960>



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From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 20:11:11 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:11:11 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: <199801112306.XAA00525@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199801120405.XAA12512@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Adam Back  writes:
> 
> Tim May  writes:
> 
> > Any file system which can be identified as to *location in some legal
> > jurisdiction*, espeically in the U.S. but also probably in any
> > OECD/Interpol-compliant non-U.S. locations, will be subject to COMPLETE
> > SEIZURE under many circumstances:
> > 
> > * if any "child porn" is found by zealous prosecutors to be on the system(s)
> 
> I think child porn is pretty much the canonical example -- the spooks
> / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if none is
> available to seize.  (eg The Amateur Action BBS case which Tim cites
> classic case -- the Thomases had not had any dealings with child porn,
> but a US postal inspector mailed some to them, and busted them for it
> before they had even opened the package.  They are still in jail
> now.)
> 
> I agree with Tim that actually building distributed file systems where
> data can be traced back to the server serving it will cause problems
> for the operators.  I think even if there are many operators, and even
> if the data is secret split, the operators would likely be held
> liable.

I agree as well.
> 
> Ross's paper describes some techniques for building a distributed
> database which makes it difficult for a server to discover what it is
> serving.  (Necessary because an attacker will become a server operator
> if this helps him).
>
> The threat of seizure is the reason that I focussed on using USENET as
> a distributed distribution mechanism.  All sorts of yucky stuff gets
> posted to USENET every day, and USENET seems to weather it just fine.
> 
> The idea of using new protocols, and new services as Ross's paper
> describes is difficult to acheive a) because the protocols are more
> complex and need to be realised, and b) because you then face
> deployment problems with an unpopular service and supporting protocols
> who's only function is to facilitate publishing of unpopular
> materials.

Solved, I think  a) someone drops out of MIT and works on Eternity DDS to
the point where people want to dump money into it, assuming it is
a fundamentally good idea, and b) by using market based protocols which give
a financial incentive to people running stuff, there is a rush to set up
eternity servers.

In my system, no one knows (ideally) who is actually storing the data, only
those on the edges of the system (who will hopefully only be known by
a logical address).  
> 
> The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
> Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of
> persistance, because the eternity server will fetch the most recent
> version currently available in the news spool.  This avoids
> centralised servers which would become subject to attack, all that is
> left is a local proxy version of an eternity server which reads news
> from an ordinary news spool.

That sounds like an interesting idea.  It is certainly far simpler to
implement than my suite of protocols.

> > - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus
> >
> > (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.)

You may have solved the problems of persistence in Eternity, and if users
are intelligent about picking addresses, you may have solved the persistent
and logical URN problem.  Cool!

I'm not sure the problems of scaling to a full production system have been 
addressed,
though.  Would usenet simply ignore the additional, and potentially highly 
illegal,
and non-readable traffic?  alt.binaries.warez got punted pretty quickly.  
Also, your
scheme does not include any provisions for people to post active objects of
any kind, or market-based load balancing, both of which I consider critical
features -- people will overload any Eternity server they can find -- what 
financial
motivation would the overt owners of the server have to upgrade to handle the 
traffic?
USENET is also not quite as resilient as it used to be.

I may have an unreasonable bias against usenet, but I think any protocol which 
depends
upon USENET rather than just using it as one of many potential transport 
mechanisms
is unable to scale.  Certainly the performance of your Eternity implementation 
will
be far from real time.  Coupled with not providing dynamic objects of any 
kind, I think
there are a large number of services which could not function in your system.

It's still has a lot of potential, and is actually highly feasible to 
implement, which is
good.  And you seem to be evolving it, which leads me to think any potential 
problems
will eventually be solved.  It would be interesting if we could share 
components which
were common to both designs, such as a payment arbitrator or whatever.

Having multiple interoperable Eternity implementations would actually be 
really interesting.
They could store data in each other, in something of a recursive auction 
market (the
data taken from a user commands a premium price immediately because it's 
"hot", once
it gets buried a bunch of times it is a bit more shielded), share payment 
protocols, etc.
Letting the market decide where it wants to put its data seems like the best 
plan.
- -- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		



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From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 20:36:43 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:36:43 +0800
Subject: (eternity) mailing list and activity
In-Reply-To: <199801112144.VAA00285@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199801120432.XAA12666@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Adam Back writes:

> Firstly note that there are 3 (three) systems going by the name of
> eternity service at present.  

I've heard that there are perhaps as many as two more which are vaguely
non-public, as well.

> And there is Ryan Lackey's Eternity DDS (where DDS stands for I
> presume Distributed Data Store?).  I am not sure of the details of his
> design beyond that he is building a market for CPU and disk space, and
> building on top of a an existing database to create a distributed data
> base accessible as a virtual web space (amongst other `views').  He
> gave this URL in his post earlier today:
> 
> 	http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/

I'm only using an existing database for reasons of expediency in prototyping.
The actual production system will include no commercial code.  Oracle is
a bloated pig for this kind of thing, too.  One of the 'views' for the
data will be a virtual database.

> [description of how to commit data in Adam Back's Eternity Service implementation elided]

My current design will require some kind of interface between users and 
eternityspace
in order to commit data.  Since the pricing/specification/etc. system will be
rather sophisticated, I'm also working on a simulation tool to assist users in
committing data.  However, it will be possible in my ideal implementation for 
a user
to fill out a form with duration of storage required, 
bandwidth/accessibility/uptime
requirements, a pro-rated schedule for nonperformance, amount of space needed, 
amount
of computation needed, etc. and attach their object.  Then, there will be a 
market
based system which lets people bid on storing that data -- various indices of 
prices
will exist (although since it is multiaxis, they will have to be surfaces, 
with a large
amount of interpolation).  Someone will buy it, perhaps resell in a recursive
auction market, etc.  There will be a designated verifier which will make sure 
the
contract is met, using a variety of mechanisms designed to preserve anonymity 
and
prevent fraud, and enforce the contract.  Payment will be held in escrow, 
disbursed at
pre-specified intervals, again totally anonymously.

Since these contracts are negotiable, there should be a market in 
selling/trading/etc.
old Eternity contracts.  As the realities of storing data change, the market 
will take
this into account, and up or down value existing and new contracts.

Potentially, one could even use Eternity storage as a kind of currency.  The 
system would
seem to be purpose-built for money laundering, once it is big enough that
all money going into or out of the system is not monitorable (a threshold which
depends on the design of the system and payment scheme as well).


I think I'm going to take a break from my demo writing to work on some public 
documents.
Some parts of my current system are total mock-ups, others don't yet exist.  
My "two-way
anonymous e-cash implementation" is a chit file in /tmp on my machine (heh), 
and
putting data into the system requires serious frobbing.  And Oracle is 
handling most of
the coherency/etc. issues right now.
- -- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		



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From tcmay at got.net  Sun Jan 11 21:12:04 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:12:04 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: <199801112306.XAA00525@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 




My comments below are not meant to cast doubt on Ryan Lackey's scheme, but
just to raise some questions.

I am surprised, I have to admit, that Ryan is talking so much about raising
money, getting investors, etc., when no _working model_ of his scheme has
been deployed for people to play with, find weaknesses in, etc.

(In comparison to, say, remailers, which have existed for more than five
years now, with literally thousands of articles--some good, some
bad--written about them in all of their various facets. Even specialized
lists for remailer operators, Mixmaster-type remailers, etc. And yet there
have been no serious calls for investors to pour money in.)

Frankly, in reading Ryan's summary, including assertions like "In my
system, no one knows (ideally) who is actually storing the data, only those
on the edges of the system (who will hopefully only be known by a logical
address)," I find no real discussion of the *core idea*, the _reason_ his
data base is in fact secure.

(I apologize if a full discussion is contained in his earlier documents.
Even if his earlier documents had a fuller description, there has certainly
been an almost complete lack of discussion of his system here in
Cypherpunks. Given the additional complexitities an Eternity type data base
has over something as conceptually simple as a remailer, the lack of
discussion is not confidence-inspiring that Ryan somehow got it all
right.....)

Anyway, I can think of all sort of threat models, and ways of (maybe)
attacking any system of linked machines I can think of, except ones using
message pools (which is why I'm biased in favor of Blacknet, I suppose).

(The motivation for Blacknet was to a) demonstrate message pools, b) show
that anyone could be a node, c) build a system where the links between
nodes are all of the traffic in "speech space," and that so long as
encrypted messages could be posted in speech space (Usenet, boards, etc.),
then the system could not be shut down. Basically, to stop Blacknet one
would have to ban remailers in all jurisdictions, or ban speech coming from
certain jurisdictions. Otherwise, it's too distributed to stop.)

(Note: But Blacknet has long latency, derived from its "speech"
underpinnings. There is the temptation to go to faster links, to move away
from speech space into traditional network links. But this reduces the
number of nodes and links, and makes an attack on the reduced-but-faster
network no longer equivalent to interfering with free speech. A
technological win but a political lose.)

Until we see a mathematical model--forget the details of implementation,
the epiphenomenal stuff about Oracle, AOLServer, Alphas, and K6s!--of how N
distributed nodes store incoming files in such a way that the goals of
Eternity can be satisfied...

(And we need to discuss in more detail just what the goals can
realistically, and economically, be.)

There are a bunch of issues which come up, motivated by Ryan's comments
that he already has the design of a file system in mind:

- why won't all machines in the network in Country A simply be shut down,
regardless of whether the Authorities can prove which machine in particular
is storing the banned material?

After all, when a kiddie porn ring has its computers seized, the
Authorities don't necessarily have to prove exactly which disk sector (or
even which disk drive) is storing a file...they can either seize the lot,
and prosecute successfully, that the ensemble was the nexus, or
instrumentality of the crime.

To paraphrase Sun, "the network _is_ the crime."

- given the problems remailer networks have to deal with, with traffic
analysis and correlation analysis (an area we have alluded to but not done
serious work on), why would not the same methods be applicable to tracking
movements through the system Ryan is apparently proposing?

(I believe a 20 MB child porn video MPEG sent into the Eternity network
would leave "footprints" an analyst or watcher could track. I am willing to
be show the error of my ways, but only with some calculations of diffusion
entropy, for example.)

- In short, I want to see some simple descriptions of WHAT IS GOING ON.

It has always been very easy for us to describe how networks of remailers
work--so simple that at the very first Cypherpunks meeting in '92 we played
the "crypto anarchy game" with envelope-based remailers, message pools,
digital cash, escrow, etc. (Running this simulation took several hours, but
taught us a lot.)

I'd like to know how Eternity DDS _works_. Then we can start mounting
attacks on it: spoofing attacks, denial of service attacks, and attacks
assuming various levels of observability into the network linking the nodes.

Until then, I think it's a waste of time and money to be coding a detailed
implementation of a protocol.

(And it may _still_ be a waste of money, even after the protocol is beat
upon thoroughly. There is no clear market for such a service, and not even
for remailers. And maybe not even for PGP, in terms of paying customers
sufficient to pay the bills. Not to criticize PGP, just noting the obvious,
the same obvious situation that seems to be the case with digital cash.
Great idea, but where are the customers?)

Thanks,


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:14:14 -0800 (PST)
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From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 21:34:43 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:34:43 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801120523.AAA12947@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



Tim May wrote:
> At 3:06 PM -0800 1/11/98, Adam Back wrote:

> News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet
> censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor
> cancellations (and some don't).  Some don't carry the "sensitive"
> newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from
> child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is
> exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including
> the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City.

There is no market-based reason for a general-purpose news server to store a 
file once it is known it is illegal or even offensive and someone puts any 
serious
amount of pressure on them.  You end up needing to steganographically protect
your data in the usenet stream, yet then you have to resort to security through
obscurity, which royally sucks if you have published source :)  You could use
some kind of cryptographically steganographically protected data, such that
you need a secret key to know stegoed data exists, but then knowing which 
files to
extract becomes a pain -- your server needs to try to extract on *everything*. 
 True,
this also solves part of the TA problem (while making the other parts far 
worse) :)

But it really hammers the servers, and makes it unlikely they'll continue to 
let you access
them.  You could then foil this by using a bunch of tentacles to pull in data, 
but this
increases complexity and security vulnerability.  
> 
> 
> >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
> >Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of
> 
> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse
> set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and
> when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as
> a spammer. :-) )

Yes.  This (and the URN issue) was one of the initial reasons why I doubted the
functionality of his Eternity implementation if it ever became popular.  One 
of MIT's
news admins was actually vehemently opposed to this "abuse of usenet", and 
implied he
would go out of his way to not carry such articles.

E-DDS should scale well because everyone involved is trying to make a profit.
> 
> >> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely
> >
> >This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the
> >distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were
> >amongst the documents.  Were you thinking of
> >
> 
> The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data
> widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or
> "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want
> suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step.
> 
> Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out
> at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and
> various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets
> and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general.
> 
> If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of
> course other considerations come into play.
> 
> (Critical to these "Eternity" things is a good model of the customers, the
> reasons for the data, etc.)

My implementation allows flexibility -- someone pays for every scarce 
resource, yes, but
it does not have to always be the same person.  There will hopefully evolve to 
be people
willing to speculate in data, storing it for free in exchange for a cut, 
others willing
to pay the cost of putting their own data up and making access free up to a 
certain point,
etc.

I like CD-ROM distribution.  My discman carried munitions, as well as music, 
recently,
on the same disc.
> 
> (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to
> demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I
> demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for
> one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that
> Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or
> escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these
> applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work
> adequately.)

There are currently-under-development systems which will meet the digital cash 
requirement,
from people who I consider highly respectable and competent.

Yes, blacknet is a perfect model of a distributed high-latency system.  
However,
to get a system which will actually be useful to end users requires quite a 
bit more than
just storing data -- services like reporting on the reliability of data, 
allowing
easy access to data by third parties, etc. are all pretty essential.  
Cypherpunks
may find blacknet highly useful, but most end users want something that works
like the web, or like a database, which is the primary advantage of the current
"Eternity" systems.
> 
> How these models will work using existing infrastructure (Usenet,
> remailers, Web proxies, etc.) depends on some factors. It might be useful
> to consider some benchmark applications, such as:
> 
> 1. Anonymous purchase of financially important data. (A good example being
> the Arbitron ratings for radio markets...subscription to Arbitron is quite
> expensive, and posting of results on Usenet is prosecuted by Arbitron. A
> good example of a BlackNet market.)
> 
> 2. Anonymous purchase of long articles, e.g., encycopedia results...
> 
> (I'm not sure there's still a market for this....)
> 
> 3. Anonymous purchase of "term papers." (A thriving market for ghostwritten
> articles...already migrating to the Web, but lacking adequate anonymizing
> methods.)
> 
> This is an example of a very large data base (all term papers on file)
> which cannot possibly by distributed feasibly by Usenet.
> 
> And so on...lots of various examples.
> 
> The whole Eternity thing is interesting, but we haven't made a lot of
> progress, it seems to me. (I distributed a proposal a bit similar to what
> Ross Anderson was proposing, a proposal more oriented toward making a
> _persistent_ Web URL for academics and lawyers to reliably cite, with less
> of the "404--File Not Found" sorts of messages, the things which make the
> Web largely unusable for academic and scientific citations.)

Yes, having a persistent URN is highly useful.  Adam's implementation kind of 
solves
this, and I have not yet come up with a solution to it -- it would be easy to
do a pretty simple persistent URL, but having something which would allow
indexing to be something other than a web-search-engine style kludge is more 
difficult.
I've been reading some papers on the topic.
> 
> 
> >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
> >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
> >> of the service, or who want such services shut down.
> >
> >I agree with this prediction.  Remailers have seen this pattern, with
> >`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial
> >materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves,
> >etc.
> 
> Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service"
> will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order.
> 
> Building a data base, as Ryan comments seem to indicate he is mostly
> interested in doing, is the least of the concerns.

I think perhaps this is inaccurate.  I am interested in being able to subsume 
the
functionality of a database for some applications, but I'm trying to build 
something
more like a distributed active agents system.  A database implies a single 
central
design -- this would be more a medium in which people could place databases, 
agents, etc.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		







From rdl at mit.edu  Sun Jan 11 21:55:17 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:55:17 +0800
Subject: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801120549.AAA13206@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


> 
> My comments below are not meant to cast doubt on Ryan Lackey's scheme, but
> just to raise some questions.
> 
> I am surprised, I have to admit, that Ryan is talking so much about raising
> money, getting investors, etc., when no _working model_ of his scheme has
> been deployed for people to play with, find weaknesses in, etc.

No working model has been deployed by me as of yet.  However, most of the
components are "solved problems", with existing working models.  Worst case,
it would be possible to accomplish equivalent functionality by linking
these by remailers and hoping no one shuts down the remailers.
> 
> (In comparison to, say, remailers, which have existed for more than five
> years now, with literally thousands of articles--some good, some
> bad--written about them in all of their various facets. Even specialized
> lists for remailer operators, Mixmaster-type remailers, etc. And yet there
> have been no serious calls for investors to pour money in.)

I believe no one has seriously called to pour money into remailers because 
there
is no money to be made from them, and making them commercial exposes them to
additional pressure and liability, not because they are technically poorly 
designed.
> 
> Frankly, in reading Ryan's summary, including assertions like "In my
> system, no one knows (ideally) who is actually storing the data, only those
> on the edges of the system (who will hopefully only be known by a logical
> address)," I find no real discussion of the *core idea*, the _reason_ his
> data base is in fact secure.

It's not a database.  A technical design document describing it, security
assumptions made, and implementation guidelines has been under development.  I 
have
been working on small demonstration components only in order to test ideas -- I
have identified technical problems which are essential to an Eternity 
implementation, and I have been looking into literature for solutions.  In
some areas, no good solutions exist in research, so I've been trying to
find technical solutions.
> 
> (I apologize if a full discussion is contained in his earlier documents.
> Even if his earlier documents had a fuller description, there has certainly
> been an almost complete lack of discussion of his system here in
> Cypherpunks. Given the additional complexitities an Eternity type data base
> has over something as conceptually simple as a remailer, the lack of
> discussion is not confidence-inspiring that Ryan somehow got it all
> right.....)

A full discussion is included in a document which has not yet been released.  
It's
not finished, even in draft form.  Classes and leaving the country to talk to 
people
and work on a side project got in the way of finishing it.  Once a draft is 
done,
I'm planning to release it to a small set of people, get their comments, then
finish the demo and send it to the cypherpunks community, with a pointer to the
demo.  I do not want to release a half-finished draft for fear that then 
progress will
slow to a standstill on the unfinished parts.

> 
> Anyway, I can think of all sort of threat models, and ways of (maybe)
> attacking any system of linked machines I can think of, except ones using
> message pools (which is why I'm biased in favor of Blacknet, I suppose).
> 
> (The motivation for Blacknet was to a) demonstrate message pools, b) show
> that anyone could be a node, c) build a system where the links between
> nodes are all of the traffic in "speech space," and that so long as
> encrypted messages could be posted in speech space (Usenet, boards, etc.),
> then the system could not be shut down. Basically, to stop Blacknet one
> would have to ban remailers in all jurisdictions, or ban speech coming from
> certain jurisdictions. Otherwise, it's too distributed to stop.)

I don't believe in the protection of being in "speech space" vs. being
in network space as substantially different.  Extralegal means will be
used to shut down servers in either case, if it is sufficiently important
to the attackers.
> 
> (Note: But Blacknet has long latency, derived from its "speech"
> underpinnings. There is the temptation to go to faster links, to move away
> from speech space into traditional network links. But this reduces the
> number of nodes and links, and makes an attack on the reduced-but-faster
> network no longer equivalent to interfering with free speech. A
> technological win but a political lose.)

It does not necessarily reduce the number of nodes and links (it may for
a given amount of traffic).
> 
> Until we see a mathematical model--forget the details of implementation,
> the epiphenomenal stuff about Oracle, AOLServer, Alphas, and K6s!--of how N
> distributed nodes store incoming files in such a way that the goals of
> Eternity can be satisfied...
>
Yes, a mathematical and technical model is critical.  However, certain
technical questions not directly related to security are easiest to solve by
experiment.
 
> (And we need to discuss in more detail just what the goals can
> realistically, and economically, be.)
>
Yes, this is true.  I've prepared a list of goals and assumptions -- I will
post them at some point in the near future.  Debate over them would be more
fruitful than any technical debate at this point.
 
> There are a bunch of issues which come up, motivated by Ryan's comments
> that he already has the design of a file system in mind:
> 
> - why won't all machines in the network in Country A simply be shut down,
> regardless of whether the Authorities can prove which machine in particular
> is storing the banned material?

If every single machine in country A is shut down, then Eternity access to that
country fails.  This is why it is essential that all machines involved
in the network retain anonymity, both from users and from untrusted other
nodes.  Several methods exist for this, including a cellular structure, 
anonymous
writing by using remailers or other technical means, etc.
>> 
> - given the problems remailer networks have to deal with, with traffic
> analysis and correlation analysis (an area we have alluded to but not done
> serious work on), why would not the same methods be applicable to tracking
> movements through the system Ryan is apparently proposing?

Components of the system will take their own security into account when pricing
service.  It won't necessarily be linear.  Since they have their own security 
in
mind, they will not willingly send a file which will lead to their demise 
unless
the reward for doing so is higher than the penalties of being caught.
> 
> (I believe a 20 MB child porn video MPEG sent into the Eternity network
> would leave "footprints" an analyst or watcher could track. I am willing to
> be show the error of my ways, but only with some calculations of diffusion
> entropy, for example.)

> 
> - In short, I want to see some simple descriptions of WHAT IS GOING ON.

I agree.
> 
> It has always been very easy for us to describe how networks of remailers
> work--so simple that at the very first Cypherpunks meeting in '92 we played
> the "crypto anarchy game" with envelope-based remailers, message pools,
> digital cash, escrow, etc. (Running this simulation took several hours, but
> taught us a lot.)


> 
> I'd like to know how Eternity DDS _works_. Then we can start mounting
> attacks on it: spoofing attacks, denial of service attacks, and attacks
> assuming various levels of observability into the network linking the nodes.

That's the primary reason for having both a design document and a demo.  People
can read about how it should work, and attack it at that level, as well as look
at it in operation.
> 
> Until then, I think it's a waste of time and money to be coding a detailed
> implementation of a protocol.

True.  I'm not coding a detailed implementation of a protocol, I'm doing a 
bunch
of minor experiments to see what technical means are feasible, as well as
trying to create something which lets people see how it works.
> 
> (And it may _still_ be a waste of money, even after the protocol is beat
> upon thoroughly. There is no clear market for such a service, and not even
> for remailers. And maybe not even for PGP, in terms of paying customers
> sufficient to pay the bills. Not to criticize PGP, just noting the obvious,
> the same obvious situation that seems to be the case with digital cash.
> Great idea, but where are the customers?)

That's why I'm trying to design the service with security *and* commercial 
usability
in mind.  I believe there are plenty of commercial uses for something with the
right combination.  If something like Eternity DDS exists which is 
indistinguishable to
the user from a web server, and from those adding files from a system superior 
to a web
server (such as a database), yet provides the level of security which I hope 
to provide,
I think there will be a commercial market.

So, I guess in order of priority:
1) list of goals and assumptions for a commercially-viable eternity service,
with cypherpunks-level security, made available for discussion
2) technical design document to meet these goals circulated among
some subset of the community for initial sanity checking
3) functional demo prepared which can demonstrate the feasibility of the system
4) release of 2) and 3) to cypherpunks, eternity, etc. for commentary
5) repeat 2, 3, 4 as necessary
6) production implementation

I've been working on 1, 2, and 3 in parallel but with roughly correct 
distribution
of effort.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		



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From phelix at vallnet.com  Sun Jan 11 22:03:54 1998
From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:03:54 +0800
Subject: (eternity) mailing list and activity
In-Reply-To: <34B9327A.2AAEEF87@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <34b9a145.15127288@128.2.84.191>



On 11 Jan 1998 18:48:24 -0600, Adam Back  wrote:

>Wei Dai suggested that documents should be secret split in a redundant
>fashion so that say 2 of 5 shares are required to reconstruct the
>document.  If the shares are distributed across different servers,
>this ensures that one server does not directly hold the information.

What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with
"conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever?  If he is holding a portion
of such contraband, isn't he as liable as if he was holding the whole
article(s)?

-- Phelix






From pooh at efga.org  Sun Jan 11 22:03:56 1998
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:03:56 +0800
Subject: Privacy Software FTP site
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980112005829.0348b7a0@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



The Georgia Cracker remailer (@anon.efga.org) sent out a total of

     20,997 anonymous messages last week

FTP STATISTICS FOR PRIVACY FILES 

Electronic Frontiers Georgia's FTP site allows authors of selected software
to have a no cost, high bandwidth distribution site for their files. We are
not the authors of such software, nor have we tested the software. Please
use at your own risk. These files can be found at ftp.efga.org/privacy/ 

Statistics are for the week ended Saturday, Midnight EST, before Mon Jan 12
00:37:49 EST 1998 

10 files uploaded
261 files downloaded

27 Private Idaho 32
22 pi32exe.exe
13 QdPGP Plug in for Pegasus
11 Jack B. Nymble, large file
18 JBN file 1 of 5
25 JBN file 2 of 5
21 JBN file 3 of 5
25 JBN file 4 of 5
26 JBN file 5 of 5
3 JBN upgrade
9 Potato 2.20
1 Decrypt
7 Freedom Remailer
0 'C' MemLock utility for PGP

About our FTP site

EFGA maintains a high bandwidth, low volume FTP site. Our servers are
located about 15 feet from a well managed network of high bandwidth fiber
connections to multiple backbones. We are capable of peak speeds of 10MB,
or about six times the speed of a T1. If you are the author of software
that supports EFGA causes such as Free Speech, anti-censorship, privacy, or
cryptography and would like for us to host your software, please contact us
for more information. 

These statistics are located at http://anon.efga.org/privacy/ftpstats.phtml 


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh at efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key






From blancw at cnw.com  Sun Jan 11 22:10:57 1998
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:10:57 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980111213213.0071be38@cnw.com>



Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

>You're missing my point. If the society would benefit from a certain
behavior,
>it should not rely on coercion, but use economic motivation to encourage it.
>Clearly NSF doesn't work any better than NEA.
........................................................................

Nah, I saw your point, but just forgot to mention it.   I do agree with
you, except a bit with the part about the source of encouragement (of
course, I would agree against bringing coercion into the picture, banish
the thought).   To be even more precise about this, it is the ones in
society whom you might imagine should provide 'encouragement', or
'incentivization',  who need to develop an appreciation and recognition for
certain values, since they're aiming for real benefits.   Creative,
inventive people don't really need that much motivation, but it's their
potential market who could stand to 'graduate towards the light', so to
speak.  Then there would exist more educated, seeking, paying,
clients/investors.

In any case the creative types still have to, like most all other
enterprises, search for the right market, the willing investor, the
interested customer/client.  It's a great thing that the net can now bring
these two more easily together, helping each to find the other.  Even if
they still can't trust each other, but must resort to lawyers to keep
things clear & clean and moral.  (smiley)
   
    ..
Blanc






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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:17:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free Live Sex!!!
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@hotmail.com>



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From shamrock at cypherpunks.to  Sun Jan 11 23:24:00 1998
From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:24:00 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
In-Reply-To: <199801120523.AAA12947@the-great-machine.mit.edu>
Message-ID: 



On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:
[quoting Tim]
> 
> > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to
> > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I
> > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for
> > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that
> > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or
> > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these
> > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work
> > adequately.)
> 
> There are currently-under-development systems which will meet the digital cash 
> requirement,
> from people who I consider highly respectable and competent.

And the demand for such ecash systems is real. I personally carried a $10
million offer for a non-exclusive license for the blind signature patent
to David Chaum. He declined the offer. "The patent is not for license". 
DigiCash's CEO since March of last year, Mike Nash, also told me that
DigiCash was not considering licensing the patent. I knew that day that it
was time to quit. Not surprisingly, nobody heard from DigiCash since. 

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"






From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Sun Jan 11 23:36:21 1998
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:21 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: <4qm4ie46w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}  writes:

> > Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist?
> 
> You can't realy be one without the other. You can't be a little bit statist.
> You can't be a little bit pregnant.

A person can be more statist then another person.  Statistness is a
real not a binarie.  

[...]

> > Ok a for instence,  if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you
> > unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1].  Such situations
> > have occured in the past, would you support them.
> 
> If the sole owner of a business has a female secretary brought into his
> office, pulls down his pants, and orders her to kiss his dick; and fires her
> for refusing; then he's engaging in behavior that's been viewed for centuries
> as one of the occupational hazards for working women and nothing out of the
> ordinary.

And if a mine worker suffercates to death in a poorly venterlated mine
then there engaging in behavior that's been viewed for centuries as one of
the occupation hazards for workers in poorly venterlated mines.

But of cause we have occupational health and safty laws to stop these
types of abuse.

[...]

> Wouldn't it be easier to say that if you don't
> like your present job for any reason (including your boss making amorous
> advances, or too little pay, or the color of the paint on the walls of your
> office), you should look for another one?

Which is fine when the ecomomy is strong and there is pleanty of jobs
going around but when the economy is on a downturn (like say because your
magour export markets have gone into free falls) and there are few jobs,
cound you risk it.

[...]

> > To me a person with that amount of power is uneceptable.
> 
> You'd rather give his power to the employee or to the state?

I'd rather have power spread around so no one has a signifigent amount of
it.

[...]

> Would you have preferred the model popular in the medieval europe, where
> the boss was forced to care for the worker (peasant) if he got too old/sick to
> work,

In a way we do this via our super anuation scheams.

[...]

> Apparently that involved the boss's right to fuck the peasant and
> his family any time he pleased (ever heard of droit de segnor?)

Its a type of dog isn't it?  A big hairy one. [2]

[...]

> > Immagion there is a truck rolling out of conrol in your direction,
> > keeping silent may harm you by preventing you from jumping out of the way,
> > but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to
> > warn you.
> 
> The inaction that you've described is highly unethical, but hardly illegal.

Depeaning on the laws and cercomstances you may get procuted in simmler
situtaions.  Indeed the coronor is going to have allot of questions to
ask you.

[2] Lit Right of the first night.  The boss had the right to fuck your
wife on the first night of your marrige.  The only refereces we have for
this are the laws out-lawing the practice.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

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From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sun Jan 11 23:42:07 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:42:07 +0800
Subject: Congratulations!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <8yL7ie2w165w@bwalk.dm.com>



Rabid Wombat  writes:

> p.s. - Thanks for the little white pills, Dr. Vulis. I'm feeling much
> happier now.

You are very welcome.

On the subject of junk e-mail: I've made an effort to place myself and
certain other addresses on the spammers' removal lists. This may be why
I get a lot less junk e-mail that apparently most people who post to
Usenet.

These days, I get about 2 or 3 junk e-mails; they are usually sent from
ibm.net or worldcom.att.net or erathlink or netcom; never aol or juno
(although they may be forged to look this way). I typically forward them
with the headers and without any comments to abuse at originating ISP, and
am typically notified within a day that the account has been terminated.

(Unlike the assholes from news.admin.net-abuse.* I have better things to
do than to keep track of my kill count, but it must be close to a hundred
since I started doing this last summer.)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From kping at nym.alias.net  Mon Jan 12 00:49:45 1998
From: kping at nym.alias.net (Kay Ping)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:49:45 +0800
Subject: Trust through anonymity; time vaults
Message-ID: <19980112083354.29846.qmail@nym.alias.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Trust and anonymity may seem to be in contradiction but I intend to show
how anonymity can be used to achieve trust.

At the base of any cryptographic system is a trust model and it can only
be as strong as the assumptions made by the trust model. Of special
interest to us are distributed trust models. This posting was sent through
a chain of remailers. I do not need to trust any of them completely, just
assume that the chances that all of them are colluding or have been
compromised by an attacker are low.

Other types of services requiring a server infrastructure can be
implemented using distributed trust models. For example, I can submit a
document to be timestamped by several servers. Someone checking the
validity of the combined timestamps can have higher assurance that the
timestamp has not been generated by collusion between the document owner
and the timestamping service or by a compromised timestamper key.
Another type of service which can use a distributed trust model is a
digital time vault which will be described later.

One of the problems with distributed trust is reliability. A service can
be interrupted by any of the servers going down. The overall reliability
goes down exponentially with the number of servers. This can be solved
for some types of services by using a secret-splitting algorithm
requiring a minimum of N out of M parts. A user can select values of N
and M that satisfy both his reliability requirements and his paranoia.

But some are more paranoid than that. It may take a very large number of
unrelated servers around the world to earn their trust and an even larger
number to get acceptable reliability.

To those I propose the following idea:

Some of the servers will be anonymous. If they don't know each other, they
can't collude. If they are anonymous it will be hard for an attacker to
know which machine to break into.

One of the problem with this approach is that an opponent with sufficient
resources can set up a large number of anonymous servers and hope that a
user chooses a set of servers of which at least N are under his control.

If the user chooses a combination of anonymous and well-known servers he
gets good protection against this scenario. Even if all the anonymous
servers are run by  it is
unlikely that they will collude with servers run by, let's say,
well-known remailer operators in other countries.

Anonymous server operators may try to collude but selfishness will stand
in their way: even if N-1 servers revealed their parts of the secret, the
last one can always refuse to cooperate and use the information, so none
of them has an incentive to reveal his part in the first place.
Simultaneous secret trading protocols will not help- they cannot
guarantee that a valid secret is contained in the message. The only way
to get selfish operators to cooperate is using zero-knowledge proofs of
their secrets. Zero-knowledge proofs work only for specific types of
secrets. It may be possible to use secrets for which zero-knowledge
proofs do not work.

The specific service I had in mind for this distributed trust model is a
digital time vault. It allows a sender to encrypt a message which can
only be decrypted after a certain date.

This is done by having a server generate secret/public key pairs for
future dates, publish all public keys at once and publish the private key
for each date at that date. Only after that date the message can be
decrypted. For reliability and security the message (or the session key)
can be split and encrypted it to the public keys of "next Friday"
published by several different servers.

This service can be used to send a public message that can only be read
after a certain date, without any action required by the sender at that
date. This may be useful if the sender suspects that he may be under
arrest, dead or otherwise uncapable of getting online at the target date.

Another possible use for this service is to destroy information to
protect yourself against threats or court orders and still be able to
recover it at a later date. Even if you don't actually do it, the
existence of the service gives you plausible deniability.

Many types of secret information are only secret for a limited time -
until an announcement is made or a deal is signed. Encrypting a message
to a future date as well as the intended recipient allows storing the
message in an unsecured archive for later reference.

This service can be implemented using existing software like PGP without
secret splitting algorithms: a conventional encryption passphrase is
encrypted to several different chains of public keys of the same date on
different servers, using combinations that create the same N out of M
result.

Since the time servers do not receive any information or participate in
the process in any way they will not generate any significant load except
during initial key generation. They can also be kept anonymous very
easily and cannot be held accountable for anyone's use of the service.
The servers will still attract attacks. Anonymous servers will get some
protection against this since their location is not known. Public servers
can protect themselves by encrypting future private keys to future date
keys on other servers and keep encrypted backups off-site. This should be
done carefully to ensure that future keys will not be lost because of
loops or servers going down.

Anyone wants to run such a service? You can run either an anonymous or
public server. You should run a public server only if you think your
reputation is good and you public key is trusted by many people. If you
want to run an anonymous server generate a new key without email or any
other identification except a pseudonym for the server.

You must commit to maintaining the service for a minimum period and
publish all the private keys for which you published the initial public
keys, but never before their time. The trial period for this service will
be three months and the interval will be one week, posted at midnight on
the beginning of the week, GMT. Date keys must be signed by the server
key.

Date private keys must have an empty passphrase so they can be used by
anyone after they are published. Until then they should be secured for
storage. Date Key IDs consists of a date in YYYYMMDD format followed by
the server name. The name may be followed by an optional email address of
the maintainer.

For the trial period keys should be published to alt.privacy.anon-server
and the list. Lists of public keys and past private keys should be
available through http, ftp or finger. If you run an anonymous server you
may ask someone, preferably a maintainer of a public server, to get your
lists and make them available.

The trial will let us experiment with this trust model and see if anyone
thinks of interesting ways to use the service.




- -----------------
Kay Ping 
nop 'til you drop

finger kping at nym.alias.net for key
DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53

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From pooh at efga.org  Mon Jan 12 00:50:22 1998
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:50:22 +0800
Subject: (eternity) mailing list and activity
In-Reply-To: <34B9327A.2AAEEF87@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980112033654.03388468@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



At 05:52 AM 1/12/98 GMT, phelix at vallnet.com wrote:
>What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with
>"conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever?  If he is holding a portion
>of such contraband, isn't he as liable as if he was holding the whole
>article(s)?

In the US, the remaining provisions of the CDA would shield an ISP from
prosecution concerning child porn.  In fact most everything but
intellectual property cases, which may be shielded by other means.  If the
eternity server acts merely as a pipeline, without the operators
participating or encouraging illegal activities, then there is a good
chance that the eternity server could be treated as a service provider in
the same fashion and be immune from prosecution directly.


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh at efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key






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From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:33:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Mon Jan 12 '98
Message-ID: <19980112233022.11607.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From 34er5dd at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 12 18:03:49 1998
From: 34er5dd at ameritech.net (34er5dd at ameritech.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:03:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: confidential report
Message-ID: <33085BD248C@yogya.wasantara.net.id>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is an ad. To be removed from *this* mailing list, please email
to mhr at magaygy.maga.co.id
Thank you and good luck in all you do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Revealing the secrets which have been made others so fabulously wealthy.

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From westcomm at teleport.com  Mon Jan 12 18:51:06 1998
From: westcomm at teleport.com (westcomm at teleport.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:51:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Win Property!  (just like Spitfire Grill!)	Win a 16-ROOM MOTEL on the OREGON COAST!  			--or--	Win a Tavern/Town in Austin, OREGON (see below)
Message-ID: <199801130250.SAA25582@smtp3.teleport.com>


			The Contests of the Century                                           

Remember SpitFire Grill?  Well, David Persha, owner of House on
the Hill Motel in Oceanside, Oregon, is giving away his
16-room motel in a very unique contest! Each guest room has a wonderful
view of the ocean, and 8 rooms feature full kitchens. There is also a large conference room, as well as other quality amenities!

The motel sits on over 45,000 square feet of land, with the main building's having been constructed in 1990. The motel is a turnkey operation in beautiful shape, with an approximate Market Value of $1.5 Million according to an appraisal performed 4 years ago.

Mr. Persha is 71 years old and is looking for new blood to take over
his motel! The contest conforms fully to all national,international, and Oregon law, thereby making it open to anybody in the world over 18 years of age.

The Motel WILL BE yours debt-free if you submit a valid entry and the
winning 250 word essay, which will be judged for originality and wit, inspiration, creativity, expression of thought, human interest, and "the conveyance of a genuine desire to run a motel on the (Oregon) coast."

For complete rules and and entry form, please send $10 to cover the
cost of handling to Contest Guidelines, West Coast Communications, P.O. Box 7434 Salem, OR 97303. For quickest response please include email address.  

	DEADLINE FOR COMPLETED ENTRIES IS FEBRUARY 20. 1998, so ACT NOW!

Please make checks payable to West Coast Communications.


West Coast Communications
P.O. Box 7434
Salem, OR 97303

------------------------------------------------------------------------
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		SEE BELOW FOR SPECIAL RATE on BOTH contests!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

			"WIN-A-TOWN" IN AUSTIN, OREGON!!

Another great contest!  Like SpitFire Grill and Persha's Motel Contest (above), Leonard West is giving away his tavern in Austin, Oregon!  

Eastern Oregon . . . closely knit families, neighbors down the road. . . a great place to raise a family!  And, "WIN-a-TOWN!" (The Austin House, 225 miles east of Portland, Oregon, consists of a tavern, restaurant, grocery store, post office, garage and gas pumps.)

This is the REAL WEST.  So ruggedly picturesque, that a Marlboro ad was
shot nearby.

The property WILL BE yours if you submit the winning 250 word essay, whichwill be judged for appreciation of the establishment and its charms, "plus a willingness to honor its. . .traditions."

For complete rules and and entry form, please send $10 to cover the cost
of postage to 

West Coast Communications, 
P.O. Box 7434 
Salem, OR 97303.

you may send questions and comments to mailto:  westcomm at teleport.com for a very short time.  We are changing servers on January 10, so address will change.

For quickest response please include email address.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ABOUT **both** CONTESTS, THE TOTAL CHARGE IS ONLY 15.00!  PLEASE SEND CHECK FOR 15.00 for information about ENTRY,  RULES, and DEADLINES FOR BOTH CONTESTS!  
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  GGGG         OOO      OOO    DDDD        LL       UU UU     CCCC     K K    !!
 GG              OO OO  OO OO  DD DD       LL       UU UU   CC            K K     !!
 GG GGG     OO OO  OO OO  DD DD       LL       UU UU   CC            K K    !!
  GGGG         OOO      OOO    DDDD        LLLLL   UUU       CCCC     K   K  !!
 
West Coast Communications does not own property which is involved in
these contests. West Coast Communications is not a judge in these contests, nor are we responsible in any way for the contents of, or the contest rules.









From thomas.womack at merton.oxford.ac.uk  Mon Jan 12 02:59:40 1998
From: thomas.womack at merton.oxford.ac.uk (Thomas Womack)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:59:40 +0800
Subject: More on the DES II contest.
Message-ID: <01bd1f47$5beb0570$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk>



>My greatest fear with DES II is that if d.n finds the key
>early in the search, they may decide to sit on it until
>just before the 540 hour deadline. If they are the only
>group with a credible chance of finding the key (as far as
>I know, this is the case), then their payback is maximized
>by by this tactic, since the time limits for the June
>contest are determined by the speed with which the key is
>found in January.


But the question is one of how fast the key-search can be made, not of when
the key would be found - and I though the d.n website displayed a figure for
keys-per-second. That it takes the network not very long to find the DES key
0x0809182395f8ee isn't a very interesting piece of data; the keys-per-second
figure is more useful.

Tom






From brianbr at together.net  Mon Jan 12 06:38:47 1998
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:38:47 +0800
Subject: Eternity Services
Message-ID: <199801121429.JAA25262@mx02.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 1/11/98 6:35 PM, David Miller (dm0 at avana.net)  passed this wisdom:

>There is one thing that comes to mind that was just a topic covered 
>on this list and that is the use of cellular/wireless/RF/ham for 
>connections to said machines.
>
>Obviously, this would make seizure more difficult (and perhaps 
>increase the likelyhood of prior warning, if for example, cellular 
>service was suddenly cut off).
>
>I am currently studying some parallels between the established FCC 
>tolerance of ham radio self-regulation vis-a-vis anonymous 
>remailers. I haven't yetdrawn up my opinions, as they are still 
>being formed. I think that this might be one avenue to look down as 
>there is obviously a type of legal precident in what is 
>allowed/tolerated under obvious FCC jursidiction, whereas the 
>jurisdiction over IP is obviously still ambiguous.

 On the surface there would appear to be some parallels worth thinking
upon with regard to ham/FCC. but the ham radio community for the most
part qualifies under the category of 'sheeple'. Separate out the
hotheads and idiots and you have a handful of forward thinkers who
want to try to push the envelope held back by the vast majority of
reactionaries. Even when the forward thinkers want to push the
envelope within the rules, not even asking for relaxed or waived
rules, they react with 'this is not the way we have always done it.'
The FCC and the Washington establishment is well aware of this and
that is why they more or less leave hams alone to regulate their own
quiet little tea party.

 I cannot see the FCC looking kindly on the use by hams or
establishment of a Citizen's Radio Data Service (as has been proposed
several times through the years) to establish a secured delibrately
obscured data network. As far as hams are concerned they are limited,
right off the bat, by regulations prohibiting use of 'codes or
encipherment whose purpose is to obscure the meaning of the
message(data).' The ham self-regulation may be a precedent, but I
don't think it would provide any leverage on this matter. Of course,
there is always steganograpy ... one man's GIF is another mans data.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNLokrj7r4fUXwraZAQFbWAf9GtQyI1PSRO8H4Iyb5Wp4xrWzMKbZuIHx
rdQtM3wEjL0l64u5gCFb082GDZWYJcj0wcehaLMn9BOp8QrooiGv9XstHqlHNYjL
/0dLTS4CT/qKkUl/68yqjB5i1KbDip1cO74dCcBVt/8G1S3IcjAGYP1V3nJtxwJ6
GlLjel9qQW4zzvnBOtQiD7HzU6V2FK5lIMa87zfuNvcREdlfyHG1L169sSq5CZEU
XT7HGxrXsmfnolgFPMqVrcIYlccc+m6vx6MmPY8XIM7vU1ybDk9wDC75Eg2aSZVw
5fQn6CogpnootVHczSog3xg3RDZkgmm0xhArbBdBNjopxScEUvIjFg==
=m+3f
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and
  write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."   -Alvin 
Toffler







From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Jan 12 07:20:48 1998
From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:20:48 +0800
Subject: List of reliable remailers
Message-ID: <199801121450.GAA17730@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu>



   I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed
information about remailer features and reliability.

   To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

   There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of
interesting links to remailer-related resources, at:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html

   This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP
encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see:
http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html

   For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger
pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

This is the current info:

                                 REMAILER LIST

   This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first
   part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration
   options and special features for each of the remailers. The second
   part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each
   remailer. You can also get this list by fingering
   remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu.

$remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp';
$remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?";
$remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek";
$remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek";
$remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?";
$remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?";
$remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post";
$remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?";
$remailer{"lcs"} = " mix";
$remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle"
$remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle";
$remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek";
catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer.
lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer.
usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer.
remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer.

There is no remailer at relay.com.

Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator:
(cyber mix reno winsock)
(weasel squirrel medusa)
(cracker redneck)
(nym lcs)
(valdeez arrid hera)

This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out
http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one.

Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT
remailer  email address                        history  latency  uptime
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
hera     goddesshera at juno.com             ------------  5:03:45  99.86%
nym      config at nym.alias.net             +*#**#**###       :34  95.82%
redneck  config at anon.efga.org             #*##*+#****      2:00  95.44%
mix      mixmaster at remail.obscura.com     +++ ++++++*     19:18  95.27%
squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de              -- ---+---    2:34:19  95.16%
cyber    alias at alias.cyberpass.net        *++***+ ++      11:26  95.11%
replay   remailer at replay.com              ****   ***      10:06  94.93%
arrid    arrid at juno.com                   ----.------   8:50:34  94.41%
bureau42 remailer at bureau42.ml.org          ---------    3:38:29  93.53%
cracker  remailer at anon.efga.org           +  +*+*+*+      16:32  92.80%
jam      remailer at cypherpunks.ca          +  +*-++++      24:14  92.79%
winsock  winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net      -..-..----    9:59:18  92.22%
neva     remailer at neva.org                ------****+   1:03:02  90.39%
valdeez  valdeez at juno.com                               4:58:22 -36.97%
reno     middleman at cyberpass.net                        1:01:28  -2.65%

   History key
     * # response in less than 5 minutes.
     * * response in less than 1 hour.
     * + response in less than 4 hours.
     * - response in less than 24 hours.
     * . response in more than 1 day.
     * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days).

   cpunk
          A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To:
          field.
          
   eric
          A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead.
          
   penet
          The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses
          X-Anon-To: in the header.
          
   pgp
          Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the
          keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email
          address, should be used as the encryption key ID.
          
   hash
          Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of
          outgoing messages.
          
   ksub
          Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode.
          
   nsub
          Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode.
          
   latent
          Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option.
          
   cut
          Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option.
          
   post
          Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header.
          
   ek
          Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header.
          
   special
          Accepts only pgp encrypted messages.
          
   mix
          Can accept messages in Mixmaster format.
          
   reord
          Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note:
          I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and
          haven't verified the reord info myself.

   mon
          Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email.
          
   filter
          Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If
          not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined
          for public forums are subject to filtering.
          

Raph Levien






From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk  Mon Jan 12 09:08:29 1998
From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:08:29 +0800
Subject: Service denial attacks on Eternity
Message-ID: 



Tim May wrote:

> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will
> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits
> of the service, or who want such services shut down.

Exactly. When I first talked about Eternity, which was at either the
1994 or 1995 protocols workshop, I was walking back to my seat when
Bob Morris (then at the NSA) said, from behind his hand in a stage
whisper, `Kiddyporn!'

Adam Back added:

> the spooks / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if
> none is available to seize

Indeed, and a decade or so ago there was a scandal when it turned out
that the spooks were using the Kincora Boys' Home in Belfast as a pedo
brothel in order to entrap various local politicians. For them to say
now that they need key escrow to suppress Kiddyporn is a bit rich!

However the main threat is the court order - Anton Pillar or whatever
- and the best weapon against court orders is anonymity. If they don't
know your address they can't serve you the order or arrest you for
contempt.

Tom Womack:

> I can imagine *use* of the service becoming a felony

I mentioned in the paper that Mossad might deny Eternity service to
the Muslim world by posting something rude about the Prophet Mohammed.

One must of course create a lawful excuse for people to have Eternity
software mounted on their system. Maybe in addition to the `public'
Eternity service we should have many corporate or even private
services, many of which have escrow capabilities and are thus clearly
law-abiding and accountable :-)

There are many other possibilities. One topic that oozes into my
consciousness from time to time is that one might integrate covert
communications and storage with an anti-spam mail program - maybe a
natural way forward if Adam hides Eternity traffic in spam!

Tim again:

> Great idea, but where are the customers?

Some 90% of security research effort is on confidentiality, 9% on
authenticity and 1% on availability. Corporate infosec expenditures
are exactly the other way round, and tools to enable disaster recovery
databases to be spread holographically over a company's PCs could save
a fortune compared with the cost of some current arrangements. If a
few of these backup resources have hidden directories that mount the
public Eternity service, then who can tell?

At the Info Hiding Workshop at Portland in April, I will present a new
idea which may facilitate such implementations of Eternity. This is
the Steganographic File System - designed to provide you with any file
whose name and password you know. If you don't know this combination,
then you can't even tell that the file is there. We do not need to
make any assumptions about tamper resistance; it can be done using
suitable mathematics. (This is joint work with Roger Needham and Adi
Shamir.)

Ross

PS: we need a better word for `eternityspace', and Bell Labs have
already trademarked `Inferno'. So what - Nirvana? Valhalla?






From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Tue Jan 13 02:11:35 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Tue Jan 13 '98
Message-ID: <19980113081932.19877.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?139

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From declan at well.com  Mon Jan 12 10:23:30 1998
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:23:30 +0800
Subject: Clinton in Texas last Friday (1/9/98, 6 pm CST)
Message-ID: 




[...]

And I want you to see your dreams and your life against a larger landscape
of America's dream and America's life.  We already have one foot in the
21st century, and it's a time that will be very, very different from the
immediate past.  How will it be different? Well, you know and you see and
you feel it here in Texas. 

	First of all, there will be the phenomenon of globalization -
people and products and ideas and information will move rapidly across
national borders - both the borders that touch us like Texas and Mexico,
and the borders that are beyond the oceans that require us to fly or to
communicate in cyberspace.

	Secondly, there is a phenomenal revolution in information and
science and technology.  Not only can children in Houston communicate with
children in Australia on the Internet, or go into libraries in Europe to
do research, but the very mysteries of the human gene are being unraveled
now in ways that offer breathtaking possibilities, to preserve the quality
and the length of human life, to fight back disease, and to bring people
together at a higher level of humanity than we've ever known. That's all
very encouraging.

[...]







From honig at otc.net  Mon Jan 12 10:23:31 1998
From: honig at otc.net (David Honig)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:23:31 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111002729.007cc410@otc.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112090824.007c4660@206.40.207.40>



At 09:17 AM 1/11/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>David Honig  writes:
>>
>> Bogus reasoning.  You are sovereign and can do with yourself as you please.
>>  *That* is why substances should be legal and helmets should be optional.
>> Pragmatics are irrelevant.  I *do*
>> wear seatbelts but it should be my choice, not
>> something the state can use violence to enforce.
>
>The above is just one of the reasons why all drugs should be legalized.

Yes, that was the moral one.

>As for helmets, seatbelts, et al, consider them in context: most kids
>stupid enough to ride a bike wihtout a helmet are already on welfare.
>If they get themselves certified brain-damaged (I don't know how the
>doctors tell the difference :-) they'll be stealing even more of my money
>through taxes. Therefore in the context of taxpayers paying the medical
>bills of these parasites, helmets can be required.

There is a shortage of organ donors.  Motorcycle helmet laws cut 
down the supply.  There's your pragmatics, happy now?




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig at otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	"How do you know you are not being deceived?" 
	---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, 
	     Directorate of Intelligence, CIA
	     http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm

















From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 11:10:53 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:10:53 +0800
Subject: College freshmen political interest at a nadir [CNN] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801121932.NAA22439@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:
>From owner-austin-cpunks at ssz.com Mon Jan 12 13:31:10 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199801121930.NAA22376 at einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: College freshmen political interest at a nadir [CNN]
To: cypherunks at ssz.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:30:47 -0600 (CST)
Cc: austin-cpunks at ssz.com (Austin Cypherpunks)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2144      
Sender: owner-austin-cpunks at ssz.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: austin-cpunks at ssz.com


Forwarded message:

>              POLITICAL INTEREST AMONG COLLEGE FRESHMEN AT NEW LOW
>                                        
>      Graphic January 12, 1998
>      Web posted at: 1:37 p.m. EST (1837 GMT)
>      
>      WASHINGTON (AP) -- It is not easy peddling politics on a college
>      campus nowadays. Even talking about the issues is a turnoff,
>      according to a nationwide survey of freshmen.
>      
>      An annual study by the University of California, Los Angeles, for
>      the Washington-based American Council on Education found a record
>      low number of college freshmen showing much interest in politics.
>      
>      Just 27 percent of the nation's 1.6 million freshmen believed that
>      keeping up with political affairs is a very important life goal,
>      less than half the percentage recorded in 1966. Just 14 percent said
>      they frequently discussed politics, down from 30 percent in 1968.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 11:13:39 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:13:39 +0800
Subject: Economic spies increase US activity [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801121931.NAA22398@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>                    ECONOMIC SPIES INCREASE ACTIVITY IN U.S.
>                                        
>      Economics Graphic January 12, 1998
>      Web posted at: 11:38 a.m. EST (1638 GMT)
>      
>      LOS ANGELES (Reuters) -- Governments of at least 23 countries
>      including Germany, Russia, China, France and Israel have stepped up
>      their economic espionage against U.S.-based companies, the Los
>      Angeles Times, quoting the FBI, reported Monday.
>      
>      The newspaper said a new survey conducted by the American Society
>      for Industrial Security estimated that intellectual property losses
>      from foreign and domestic espionage may have exceeded $300 billion
>      in 1997 alone.
>      
>      More than 1,100 documented incidents of economic espionage and 550
>      suspected incidents that could not be fully documented were reported
>      last year by major companies in a survey conducted by the society,
>      The Los Angeles Times said. It said it had obtained results of the
>      survey which was scheduled to be released Wednesday.
>      
>      A 1996 Economic Espionage Act makes theft of proprietary economic
>      information in the United States a felony punishable by a $10
>      million fine and 15-year prison sentence.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk  Mon Jan 12 11:39:17 1998
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:39:17 +0800
Subject: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <199801081855.TAA05464@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 




> Tim May doesn't know anything about Onion Routers, Crowds, or any of
> the other new privacy technologies like Adam Back's prototype Eternity
> service. 

Judging Tim May in this way seems rather unfair as I have no reason to 
believe you know any of this to be true, although your anonymity prevents 
me from knowing either way.

> In truth, he has lost all interest in cryptography and now spends
> his time talking about guns and making racist comments.

True, Tim spends little time posting about crypto now, but maybe he feels 
he has said what he wants to, and moved on, maybe he`ll post about crypto 
again in the future, maybe not. If you don`t like his writing killfile 
him, or use the delete key, if you don`t like the content on the list 
now, write something yourself, start a thread you find interesting, do 
something to change the situation rather than bemoaning the state of the 
list.

> He wonders why the cypherpunks list no longer attracts quality
> cryptographic ideas.  He need look no farther than the nearest mirror.

People who have something to say about crypto will post here, look at the 
number of good cryptographers on the list and tell me where else you will 
find such an accumulation of talented thinkers and writers. Cypherpunks 
was never intended to be a pure crypto list anyway (as I see it), more of 
an applied crypto list discussing applications of technology as a defence 
of personal freedom, related issues will inevitably be discussed and that 
includes guns and "anti-discrimination" laws. If you don`t like the list, 
change it or leave, sci.crypt and sci.crypt.research are excellent groups 
on a more pure cryptography topic than cpunx, apart from the massive 
number of "where do I get PGP for my PC" questions on sci.crypt 
(sci.crypt.research is moderated and much lower traffic).

> His violent rants and his off-topic, offensive posts have done more than
> anything to drive good people off the list.

"good people" as you see them presumably have the level of technical 
competence required to set up procmail, and put those who they see as 
"ranting" in their killfile. 

> The single best thing that could happen to the cypherpunks list (and the
> cypherpunks movement, for that matter) would be for Tim May to leave the
> list and disassociate himself from the cypherpunks. 

Oh worthy anonymous one, please enlighten us with your next pronouncement 
on the best thing we can do for the movement.

> He would be much more comfortable joining the KKK and the local 
> militia.  

How do you know Tim isn`t already a member of his local militia?
Why do you feel Tims predisposition towards active methods of preserving 
his freedom rule out his participation in this group?


> After him, Paul Bradley, William Geiger and Dimitri Vulis can follow.

Never let it be said that I post in my own defence against a silly 
flamebait message such as this, but I cannot see the writers problem with 
ignoring me if he doesn`t like what I post.

> This will leave fine thinkers with good hearts like Adam Back, Bill
> Stewart, Wei Dai and others, people who still believe that cryptography
> can make a strong contribution to our freedom.

I still believe cryptography can make a contribution to freedom, but I am 
gradually persuaded more and more to the belief that other means of 
defence may become necessary as a last resort, and I believe in being 
prepared for all possible outcomes.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"







From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 11:41:04 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:41:04 +0800
Subject: Attn: Jeremy Day - your nameserver isn't working...
Message-ID: <199801122004.OAA22608@einstein.ssz.com>



 I received traffic from a 'Jeremy Day' in the process of attempting a reply
 I find his nameserver is not responding.
 
 Forwarded message:
 
 > From jeremy at servers.toh Mon Jan 12 13:52:35 1998
 > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:20:46 +0000 (   )
 > From: Jeremy Day 
 > To: ravage at ssz.com
 > Subject: Re: A further thought on free markets & anarchy...
 > Message-ID: 
 > MIME-Version: 1.0
 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
 
 As to the specific issue that Jeremy raised in his note. I have no interest
 in carrying on a private discussion on this topic. If you would like to
 re-submit your post to the CDR I will respond to the points raised publicly.
 
 

    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Jan 12 12:14:26 1998
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:14:26 +0800
Subject: Zions Bancorp to offer Digital Certificates
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:47:01 -0800 (PST)
From: William Knowles 
To: DCSB 
cc: DC-Stuff 
Subject: Zions Bancorp to offer Digital Certificates
Organization: Home for retired social engineers & unrepented cryptophreaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: William Knowles 

[Techweb 1.12.98] Zions Bancorp, a $9 billion regional bank
in Salt Lake City, this week will become the first financial
institution to offer a service that lets organizations use
digital certificates to secure internal and business-to-business
communications.

Digital certificates, which electronically confirm a user's
identity, are generated and managed by certificate authorities.
Companies can set up authorities themselves or use authorities
created by third parties.

Although certificate-authority services are available from
technology vendors [such as GTE, IBM, and VeriSign, Zions
said customers will feel more comfortable letting a bank manage
their digital certificates. "Banks in the paper world already do
this. They write letters of credit," said Michelle Jolicoeur,
director of government implementations at Digital Signature Trust,
the Zions unit that will offer the service. "Our business is trust."

Digital Signature Trust has conducted pilots of its service with
Utah's Department of Commerce, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints, and internal departments for about a year.  The service
uses digital certificate software from several vendors, including
Certco, Entrust, GTE, VeriSign, and Xcert. Separately, Certco and
Entrust will unveil new features to their certificate-authority
offerings at the RSA Data Security conference in San Francisco
this week.

Oppenheimer Funds, which plans to implement digital certificates
by midyear to bolster IT security, is investigating whether to
operate its own certificate authority or to outsource. "A bank
is generally going to be a more stable company," said Jim Patterson,
an Oppenheimer technology vice president in Englewood, Colo.
"But on the other hand, do I want a bank that I currently don't
have a relationship with to know so much about me?"

Still, Patterson said digital certificates will be important
in business-to-business commerce and communications. "With
digital certificates, I can start getting or sending requests
to perform business functions over any medium I want, including
the public Internet," he said.

Pricing for the Digital Signature Trust service will be
subscription-based and will depend on the customer's
applications and number of certificates.


==
The information standard is more draconian than the gold
standard, because the government has lost control of the
marketplace.  --  Walter Wriston
==
http://www.dis.org/erehwon/



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 







From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Mon Jan 12 12:21:48 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:21:48 +0800
Subject: autonomous agents
Message-ID: <199801121925.TAA00539@server.eternity.org>




A canonical way to do implement things like remailers, eternity
servers etc. is to build a distributed computation system to allow
autonomous agents to be distributed across the internet.  Create a
market for CPU resources, bandwidth and disk-space so that the agent
can pay it's way.  Charge per CPU/hour, Mbit comms at given data rates
and Mbyte/year storage, base it on Java as a portable network based
language with code distribution support.  Then let people fire off
what ever they like, so long as they are paying.

In this environment an eternity variant, or remailers, or anything
else becomes a collection of autonomous agents which must fund their
own distribution.  The autonomous agents could send back profits to
their creators, or use the profits to self propagate.

Someone who thought up a good application, and got the economics right
for their bot's buy and sell algorithms might become rich, even.

I had considered that a generic perl execution system charging for
resources would be useful for remailers a few years back.  Java seems
pretty good for this purpose also, being another portable network
aware language.

>From what Ryan has said his design uses markets for resources also.


The question is though would you let a bot of this sort loose on your
system?

For agents to be able to achieve anything useful, the Java sandbox
model has to be relaxed to allow the agent to make network connections
to other than the machine the code was served from.  Java has support
for this in that signed applications are allowed to make external
network connections.

The problem is the flexibility would allow an autonomous agent to pay
it's way in say breaking into a series of machines, and sending back
obtained documents via remailer to the operator.  A well funded
attacker could cause lots of problems for operators.

However the system as a whole is nice for our `creating lawful
excuses' drive, because there are many applications which could make
good use of the distributed computation system: filmatic quality image
rendering computations, scientific computations, code breaking
efforts, distributed web server applications. 


The liability questions are interesting also.  If the participant in
the CPU resource market is not expected to be able to vet all source
code he runs, this gives the would be eternity operator a chance to
distribute his risk.  If the system becomes widely used, this helps
protect it from attack.

Adam






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 12:29:28 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:29:28 +0800
Subject: autonomous agents (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801122044.OAA22802@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:25:53 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: autonomous agents

> A canonical way to do implement things like remailers, eternity
> servers etc. is to build a distributed computation system to allow
> autonomous agents to be distributed across the internet.  Create a
> market for CPU resources, bandwidth and disk-space so that the agent
> can pay it's way.  Charge per CPU/hour, Mbit comms at given data rates
> and Mbyte/year storage, base it on Java as a portable network based
> language with code distribution support.  Then let people fire off
> what ever they like, so long as they are paying.

Has anyone done any work that you are aware of under the Plan 9 os? With
it's fundamental seperation of i/o, process, and file servers along with
it's inherent bidding/scheduling mechanism it seems to me that a lot of this
work has already been done. In addition there are programs that allow Linux
boxes to participate as Plan 9 compliant file servers.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From tcmay at got.net  Mon Jan 12 12:37:31 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:37:31 +0800
Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning
Message-ID: 




This has some tangential list relevance in that it involves the Brave New
World, so to speak, of the government deciding what research is legal and
what is not.

Clinton is asking Congress to ban research into human cloning.

Importantly, this is not a proposal to cut federal funding of such efforts,
as this would be unexceptionable (except to certain obscurantists). That
is, the NSF or HHS or NIH or whatever is free to not fund all sorts of
research projects. (Obviously many of us would cut nearly all such funding.)

No, Clinton is asking for Congress to *ban* such research, regardless of
where the funding came from. "Clone a cell, go to jail."

"Clinton's proposal would make illegal any attempt to create a human being
using the so-called somatic cell nuclear transfer technology that produced
Dolly the sheep, in which an adult cell was fused with an egg. "

Though I'm not a constitutional expert, this would seem to me to be a
violation of various rights. A First Amendment right to speak and publish
as one wishes for one, a Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure
and to be secure in one's papers, and probably more general rights that
have long-held that government agents cannot tell people what books they
may read, what thinking they may do, and  whom they may asssociate with (if
the Civil Rights Act is viewed as the unconstitutional anomaly it is).

Only a very few types of research are banned. And these are all ostensibly
"national security" areas. Namely, chemical and biological warfare
research, heavily regulated (private companies can do such research, but
only with government approval, supervision, and generally _for_ the
government). And nuclear weapons research (probably as part of the Atomic
Energy Act).

(If anyone can think of other "bans on research," besides weapons areas,
let me know.)

But a ban on cloning research would not be a matter of "national security,"
only of ethics and religious beliefs. Whatever the arguments for banning
unapproved research into CBW and nuclear weapons, banning cloning research
is an entirely different set of issues.

Will Congress pass such a ban? Unknown. (They didn't pass the last such ban
Clinton asked for.)

Will the Supreme Court hear the case if such a ban is passed and then
challenged? Unknown.

Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make certain
types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, why not a ban on
certain types of mathematics research?

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 12:47:27 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:47:27 +0800
Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801122111.PAA22985@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:32:18 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning

> (If anyone can think of other "bans on research," besides weapons areas,
> let me know.)

Class 1 drugs.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|







From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk  Mon Jan 12 12:47:37 1998
From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:47:37 +0800
Subject: Trust through anonymity; time vaults
Message-ID: <199801122019.UAA04395@notatla.demon.co.uk>




The time vault suggestion resembles one from Tim May in 1993.

Rivest Shamir and Wagner also addressed time vaults by requiring a
computation (resistant to parallel calculation and of reasonably
well-defined length) to decrypt the message.

under http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/


--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant at notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################






From tcmay at got.net  Mon Jan 12 13:02:28 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:02:28 +0800
Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 12:32 PM -0800 1/12/98, Tim May wrote:

>Only a very few types of research are banned. And these are all ostensibly
>"national security" areas. Namely, chemical and biological warfare
>research, heavily regulated (private companies can do such research, but
>only with government approval, supervision, and generally _for_ the
>government). And nuclear weapons research (probably as part of the Atomic
>Energy Act).
>
>(If anyone can think of other "bans on research," besides weapons areas,
>let me know.)

Before others point this out, there are certain types of "public safety"
laws about what one can research or do. Laws about explosives, dangerous
chemicals, and pathogens.

(The "ban on recombinant DNA research," following the Asilomar Conference
in 1975, was a voluntary ban, and thus not a ban in the sense I am using
here. And it last only a couple of years, until more could be learned about
the potential danges of recombinant DNA work.)

Please respond to my main points, if you respond at all, not to these side
points.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From sheriff at speakeasy.org  Mon Jan 12 14:32:04 1998
From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:32:04 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
In-Reply-To: <19971226.145900.12766.0.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com>
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 8:26 PM -0800 1/10/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that.  If you open a *private*
>>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to
>>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt.
>
>I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there;
>you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch.
>Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s
>(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states
>could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations;
>it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954,
>but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business
>is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments
>if they couldn't be interfering in business.)

Firstly, something being long-established doesn't make it right.
SO, let's look at it this way, regarding the freedom of association.

You have the freedom to associate with whom you choose, don't you
think?  It's not in the constitution, but you would throw a fit if
Uncle Sam told you that it was illegal for you to go play baseball
with little Billy if little Billy was black and you were white.

AND, in my not so humble opinion, If you have the freedom to play
with little Billy, then you have the freedom to tell little Billy
to go fuck himself because you refuse to play with "niggers."

Sam Adams (as it may or may not have been mentioned on this list)
himself had a problem with our constitution -- he didn't think that
it was right for the people to ratify the bill of rights, thereby
protecting certain rights under the constitution.  Why?  Simple.

He was of the mind that setting our rights, such as the right to
free speech, in concrete meant that anything NOT set in concrete
wasn't a right -- he felt that by ratifying the bill of rights,
rather than using logic as I did above, we were actually LIMITING
our rights as freely roaming human beings.

>>>Tell that to Denney's restaurants. (No, not in the United Fascist
>>>States of Amerika you can't.)
>
>>Apologies.  In *theory* you have those rights, on *paper*, you have those
>>rights, but in *practice*, you're correct, the Government has power that
>>it gleefully abuses, forcing others to comply w/ political correctness.
>>
>>I'd like some more info on this Denny's thing.
>
>A Denny's restaurant in Maryland had two groups of customers
>show up one day, one group black, one group white, both about 6-8 people,
>both arriving at the same time, both groups out-of-uniform cops.
>The white people got served promptly, the blacks got served
>extremely late and rudely.  And sued, and won.

Sadly, America has become less of a home to the free and the brave,
and more of a home to the pissed and the laywers.  I remember an
experience where I was lounging in a booth at a Perkins with a few
friends of mine.  Two of them were sitting on one side (they were
dating at the time), and I was stretched across the cushion on the
other side.

The manager came up to me and told me to sit up straight, or he
would ask me to leave.  I lit a cigarette and told him to go fuck
himself.  He asked me to leave.  I did so, my friends in tow, and
we refused to pay the $40 bill on our way out.

America should be about not taking any shit from anybody -- not
because you can sue, but because you have enough attitude to realize
when the other guy's being an idiot, and because you have enough
balls to tell him so.

Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste,
The Sheriff. -- ******
- ---
As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and
confirm the signature attached to this message.  Either
that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search
for my e-mail address.
- ---
Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory
efforts.  Solicitations are NOT welcome here!
- ---
        ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK----
Version: 160 (IQ)
Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses.

Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?"
- ---
Citizen: "Public enemy?"
          [long pause]
         "Probably somebody in office."
        -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK-----


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From sheriff at speakeasy.org  Mon Jan 12 14:32:09 1998
From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:32:09 +0800
Subject: Spam
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out
>>more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does
>>in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so,
>>I'm not sure how to find that out.  If he doesn't, is
>>there anything I can do?
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Yeah, there is.
>
>Delete the friggin e-mail like a sensible person.
>
>I get a lot of spam every day, but I just delete it and go on with my
>life.

Look, I realize I was probably asking a stupid question, but
you don't have to be quick with me.  I figured that there were
some things that I could do that I simply didn't know about,
beyond the simplicity of returning the spam the postmaster, root,
and abuse account of the last ISP the spam was routed through.

My interest isn't simply in getting rid of the spam.  "Empty
Trash" is a pretty simple concept on Eudora.  What I want to do
is fight the flow -- and while there may be as many as 10 spammers
per ISP out there, every spam I do something about is one less
server that accepts messages for routing that don't come from one
of their accounts.

If that doesn't make sense to you, don't bother answering the
e-mail next time, eh?

Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste,
The Sheriff. -- ******
- ---
As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and
confirm the signature attached to this message.  Either
that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search
for my e-mail address.
- ---
Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory
efforts.  Solicitations are NOT welcome here!
- ---
        ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK----
Version: 160 (IQ)
Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses.

Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?"
- ---
Citizen: "Public enemy?"
          [long pause]
         "Probably somebody in office."
        -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK-----


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From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 14:45:10 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:45:10 +0800
Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801122311.RAA23502@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:40:11 -0400
> From: The Sheriff 
> Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment

> Sam Adams (as it may or may not have been mentioned on this list)
> himself had a problem with our constitution -- he didn't think that
> it was right for the people to ratify the bill of rights, thereby
> protecting certain rights under the constitution.  Why?  Simple.
> 
> He was of the mind that setting our rights, such as the right to
> free speech, in concrete meant that anything NOT set in concrete
> wasn't a right -- he felt that by ratifying the bill of rights,
> rather than using logic as I did above, we were actually LIMITING
> our rights as freely roaming human beings.

Which is the reason they put the 9th and 10th in there.

> America should be about not taking any shit from anybody -- not
> because you can sue, but because you have enough attitude to realize
> when the other guy's being an idiot, and because you have enough
> balls to tell him so.

Actualy it should be because people realize you don't owe that other person
an explanation for your actions and you further don't need their permission.
Of course this assumes you *aren't* using anything that belongs to them.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From vznuri at netcom.com  Mon Jan 12 14:47:30 1998
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:47:30 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801122244.OAA23868@netcom12.netcom.com>



the original claim, which I don't really care much and find pretty
obvious, such that I am not really even all that interested in
debating the point except for amusement, was that

"science advances only through the open literature"

its a tautology in a sense that I was referring to collaborative
science, not private experiments. science in its most powerful
form, that in service to humanity, is of course not this type,
although I wouldn't be surprised if a antisocial anarchist
for example confused the two either deliberately or through
a characteristically muddled mind.

>Doesn't matter how the establishment (whatever that might be) looked on him
>or not...

well, the original  point was about "establishment science"..

>My main point has been to refute your notion that any one who elects not to
>publish in the open literature cannot be a scientist. I know of many
>scientists who could not publish, or chose not to for various reasons.

ah yes, scientists in their own mind, like that saying, "a legend in
his own mind"

>I mentioned the Manhattan Project scientists. (Choate made some bizarre
>claim after this mention that all of the science was known in the 20 and
>30s, and that no actual science was done by MP "engineers" and
>"technicians." Might be a surprise to Ulam, Teller, von Neumann, and all
>the others who worked in secrecy on the atom bomb, then the hydrogen bomb,
>and so on.)

it was science that was of borderline benefit to humanity, which was
exactly my initial point. how much has the atom bomb served humanity?
perhaps such abominations of technology require secrecy, no?

>The point being that open publication is only a part of the methodology of
>doing science, and a fairly recent one, too.

no, it has been considered the key ingredient of modern science since its
inception. concepts of publication and
proper attribution for example have been around for centuries.

>--Tim May and his Tentacles

call me a sentimental fool but just love it when they 
waggle suggestively like that!!






From vznuri at netcom.com  Mon Jan 12 14:59:04 1998
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:59:04 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980110200421.007049d8@cnw.com>
Message-ID: <199801122254.OAA29857@netcom12.netcom.com>



bw does a good job of separating out a few memes for discussion;

>Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists
>to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it.

I was not talking so much about a need, but a duty as a scientist. I
was talking about other *duties* of responsible scientists. it is 
interesting that physicians have a Hippocratic oath, but do scientists
have an oath? there are informal ideas and taboos that circulate
I think should be codified. I suggest some that involve secrecy
and the use of moral principles in the pursuit of science.

something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something
that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? I find
it trivial to see that there is. but perhaps someone that is opposed
to morality, or is a moral relativist, or has a muddled mind, or
whatever, will reject anything that uses the word "moral". in fact
you might even start a flamewar among such people for using such
a word like a red flag in front of a bull, a deliciously juicy
and delectable flamewar at that!!

>But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing".    I was
>only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their
>own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some
>scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement,
>as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually
>do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance).

absolutely, and perhaps this secrecy is a useful atmosphere for 
abominations to flourish. has anyone asked why it is that people
in our war factories (and they are vast, make no mistake) make
weapons merely because they are *feasible*?? who is it that
uses such a feeble, dark, deluded worldview to navigate the world?
answer: many thousands of people being paid handsome salaries by
your tax money extracted every week from your paycheck. many people
who consider themselves the elite intellectuals of humanity. many
people who have made an art of making themselves unaccountable to
government oversight with the easy help of  the indifferent, lazy,
and apathetic masses.

>It may be your conclusion that the advancement of science depends upon
>scientists publishing their works, but the fact is that some great
>scientists, and many others as well, are not as motivated to contribute as
>you think is proper for a "true scientist".

it is not my own conclusion. it is a simple truth that would be considered
obvious by most scientific authorities.

>I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined
>some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to
>share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who
>are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such
>communities.

fair enough. those scientists that are being paid with taxpayer money.
and they are littered all over secret government agencies, sucking
up money like black vacuums, while they create irrelevant,
distracting diversions and decoys for the population to wail about
such as welfare, social security, etc.  perhaps there might be enough
money to go around if so much of it wasn't being encased in the
steel frames of the most technological weaponry-- killing
technology far more efficient than the ovens of Auschvitz-- ever in existence.
now being perfected with the help of your paycheck taxes..... gosh,
why would anyone care about any of this? to all the newbies on this
list-- I warn you-- the rumors are all true, I really AM INSANE!!
BWAHAHAHHAHAHA







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Mon Jan 12 15:08:05 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:08:05 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199801122245.XAA04631@basement.replay.com>



If man were meant to clone, he'd have twins.

 - Anon






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 15:18:05 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:18:05 +0800
Subject: Future War on TDC this Sunday
Message-ID: <199801122344.RAA23793@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi,

Just saw an add for Future War on The Discovery Channel this Sunday evening.
It is supposed to discuss the impact of global television as the primary
weapon in the warfare of tomorrow.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 15:38:39 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:38:39 +0800
Subject: Global market going to the bears?   [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801130004.SAA23988@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>    Managers worldwide say they are losing confidence in equities, buying
>    bonds
>    
>    January 12, 1998: 1:48 p.m. ET
>    
>    Mutual Funds Guide
>    More related sites... LONDON (Reuters) - Fund managers worldwide are
>    increasingly pessimistic about economic and corporate earnings growth,
>    according to investment bank Merrill Lynch's monthly Gallup Global
>    Survey released on Monday.
>    [INLINE] "Managers are downgrading their forecasts for earnings per
>    share and at the same time this bearishness for equities makes them
>    want to buy bonds," Merrill Lynch global strategist Bijal Shah told
>    Reuters Financial Television. "They are saying this weakness in
>    activity means that inflation is not going to pick up and bond prices
>    should rise."

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 15:39:16 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:39:16 +0800
Subject: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801130006.SAA24034@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>    New Unix workstations, lower pricing seen as bulwark against Microsoft
>    NT
>    
>    January 12, 1998: 1:11 p.m. ET
>    
>    Java goes to set-top boxes - Jan. 9, 1998
>    
>    Sun cross-pollinates Intel - Dec. 16, 1998
>    
>    More related sites... PALO ALTO, Calif.(Reuters) - Sun Microsystems
>    Inc. will launch a new line of workstations Tuesday, aiming to
>    challenge its rivals and blunt the spread into markets for
>    high-powered desktop computers used by engineers of PCs using
>    Microsoft Corp.'s Windows NT.
>    [INLINE] The new workstations are the result of a two-year effort by
>    Sun to design products that greatly reduce the cost of the computers
>    used by power-hungry engineers, while still providing the blistering
>    performance they demand.
>    [INLINE] "This is really big. We think we can create an alternative to
>    [PCs running] NT," Ed Zander, president of Sun Microsystems Computer
>    Co., the company's largest division, said in an interview with Reuters
>    ahead of the announcement.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From nobody at nsm.htp.org  Mon Jan 12 16:20:59 1998
From: nobody at nsm.htp.org (nobody at nsm.htp.org)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:20:59 +0800
Subject: Congratulations!
Message-ID: <19980113000743.988.qmail@nsm.htp.org>



>To: Anonymous 
>cc: cypherpunks at toad.com, abuse at MCI.Com,   >hostmaster at cyber-dyne.com

Ha, ha, ha! who CC'd the "Congratulations" thread to those
addresses??  (would they know how to smurf d00d?)

This list gets fucking better!








From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 17:05:55 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:05:55 +0800
Subject: USPS loosing business to email  [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801130133.TAA24345@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>                U.S. POSTAL SERVICE LOSING BUSINESS TO COMPUTERS
>                                        
>      e-mail vs. snail mail January 12, 1998
>      Web posted at: 3:25 p.m. EST (2025 GMT)
>      
>      NEW YORK (CNN) -- The U.S. Postal Service is facing stiff
>      competition from computers, according to an article in the January
>      19 issue of Time Magazine.
>      
>      Electronic mail could replace 25 percent of conventional mail, or
>      "snail mail," by the year 2000, the article said.
>      
>      The Postal Service lags behind Federal Express and United Parcel
>      Service in shipping packages. The latter already moves 80 percent of
>      the country's packages, according to the article.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Mon Jan 12 18:09:11 1998
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:09:11 +0800
Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111002305.007ca5f0@otc.net>
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, David Honig wrote:

[...]

> At 01:28 AM 1/11/98 +1100, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> > If you have a population of unchanging clones (your typical 'master
> > race') you don't get any evoltion or improvement.
> >
> 
> A population *must* undergo variation in its
> heriditary units since 
> 1. there's always errors in copying the code
> 2. equivalently, you can't drive the error rate
> of a channel down to 0, just arbitrarily close.

This is true,  of cause if you have a population like this that will most
likely get killed off by the next pathogen.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

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From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Jan 13 10:30:22 1998
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:30:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DCSB: Michael Baum; PKI and the Commercial CA
Message-ID: 


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

              The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents

                        Michael S. Baum
                         VeriSign, Inc.

                        PKI Requirements
                             from a
                   Commercial CA's Perspective

                    Tuesday, February 3, 1997
                           12 - 2 PM
               The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                  One Federal Street, Boston, MA


Requirements for the provision of commercial certification products and
services are under consideration by many companies. Similarly, efforts to
regulate certification authorities (CAs) and public key infrastructure (PKI)
are proliferating by many domestic and foreign governments. Underlying many
of these efforts is the intention to assess and assure quality and
trustworthiness, and yet the nature, scope and regime to accomplish these
goals remain elusive or at least have been balkanized.

This presentation will consider CA and PKI requirements from the experiences
and perspective of a commercial CA. It will survey current approaches to
ascertaining quality and performance as well as their limitations. It will
then propose a path forward. Many of these issues are present real
challenges to both the CAs and the user community. A lively dialog is
welcomed.


Michael S. Baum is Vice President of Practices and External Affairs,
VeriSign, Inc.  His responsibilities include developing practices and
controls under which VeriSign conducts its public Digital ID and private
label certificate operations.

Mr. Baum is the Chair of the Information Security Committee, and Council
Member of the Section of Science and Technology, of the American Bar
Association. He is Chairman of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC)
ETERMS Working Party and a Vice Chairman of the ICC's Electronic Commerce
Project, a delegate to the United Nations Commission on International Trade
Law on behalf of the ICC. He is a member of various digital signature
legislative advisory committees.

Mr. Baum is co-author (with Warwick Ford) of Secure Electronic Commerce
(Prentice Hall, 1997), author of Federal Certification Authority Liability
and Policy - Law and Policy of Certificate-Based Public Key and Digital
Signatures (NIST, 1994), co-author of Electronic Contracting, Publishing and
EDI Law (Wiley Law Publications, 1991), and contributing author to EDI and
the Law (Blenheim Online, 1989), and the author of diverse information
security publications including the first American articles on EDI law. He
was honored as an EDI Pioneer in 1993 (EDI Forum) and was the Recipient of
the National Notary Association's 1995 Achievement Award. He is a member of
the Massachusetts Bar.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, February 3, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting for sale on CD/R, and to put it on
the web in RealAudio format, at some future date.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know
you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday,
January 31st, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks payable to
anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had
to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please
let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out.

Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

March     Joseph Reagle       "Social Protocols": Meta-data
                               and Negotiation in Digital Commerce
April     Adam Shostack       Digital Commerce Security:
                               Beyond Firewalls
May       Jeremey Barrett     Digital Bearer Certificate Protocols


We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on the
first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the
Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert
Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If
you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the
body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 







From emc at wire.insync.net  Mon Jan 12 18:54:07 1998
From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:54:07 +0800
Subject: Feds to Idaho: Kiss Our Butts
Message-ID: <199801130255.UAA21084@wire.insync.net>



The manslaughter case against Ruby Ridge shooter Lon Horiuchi was
effectively neutered today when a federal judge acquiesed to demands
by Justice Department lawyers and moved the case out of Idaho's
jurisdiction and into federal court.  This means that Horiuchi will be
tried in federal court in front of a federal jury on state
manslaughter charges, and not in front of a jury from Idaho's Boundary
County, where the shooting took place.
 
This ruling, by U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge, came just six days
after Boundary County Magistrate Quentin Harden ordered Horiuchi to
stand trial.  State manslaughter charges had been filed against
Horiuchi for the death of Vicki Weaver in August.
 
The Justice Department, which has denied that Horiuchi did anything
wrong, provided the lawyers who argued that any case in which federal
agents are acting in their official capacity may be transferred and
tried in federal court, in front of a federal jury.
 
The trial is scheduled to begin March 10.  Horiochi has continued to
work for the FBI since the charges were filed.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 19:12:14 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:12:14 +0800
Subject: Trial jurisdiction options
Message-ID: <199801130337.VAA24688@einstein.ssz.com>




			       ARTICLE III. 
 
Section 2.  The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, 
arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties 
made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; -- to all Cases affecting 
Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; -- to all Cases of admiralty 
and maritime Jurisdiction; -- to Controversies between two or more States; -- 
between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens of 
different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under 
Grants of different States; -- and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, 
and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. 
	In all Cases, affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and 
Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall 
have original Jurisdiction.  In all other Cases before mentioned, the supreme 
Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such 
Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. 
	The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be 
by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes 
shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial 
shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed. 
 


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From blancw at cnw.com  Mon Jan 12 19:14:38 1998
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:14:38 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980112191309.0069b3d8@cnw.com>



 Mad Vlad wants to know:

>something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something
>that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? 
............................................................

No.  There are, however, immoral scientists.   One way to skew the
interpretations of what you write, besides bringing up the subject of
morality, is to describe things in ways which do not correspond to their
actual manner of existence:  "science" does not exist without those
individuals who have set themselves to pursue it.  They should bear the
blame if they practice it immorally.

You again have brought up several issues which can be examined separately
and do not necessarily coexist:

.  being a scientist
.  pretending to be scientific
.  choosing to pursue science
.  being smart enough to pursue scientific research
.  being successful in the scientific pursuit of truths
.  giving a damn about the consequences of the effects of research as it
affects humanity or other living things (as when it is imposed upon them)
.  responsibility in science
.  responsibility in science as practiced by mendicants of the State
.  the regulation of responsibility per se
.  the regulation of the methods of science
.  the support of irresponsible scientific methods, by slaves of the State
.  anarchist cypherpunkery

I become exceedingly uncomfortable at the realization that I have to buy an
astronomy magazine from the store, paying yet again for info, in order to
find out some of what they're doing at NASA.   To think that a responsible
citizen like myself must go out searching for the info themselves, using
whatever resources they can find or pay for, in order to become informed!
There are all sorts of things that government employees do not "share" with
those who pay the bills.

There is a book in Objectivist literature which presents the idea of
"context dropping", which is, that in order for some people to function as
if things were normal and that what they're doing is consistent with moral
principles, they must drop a part of their information out of sight, out of
thought, so that their actions appear logically related and make sense  -
they eliminate elements from the given context, crucial essentials which
make the difference in its character.  People like these might practice
secrecy in keeping information from others, but equally significant, they
also hide things from themselves.

So that's one thing which would explain some scientist's lack of moral
principles in the pursuit of science.   Then it must be explained why so
many people aren't complaining about it.  Are they insensitive to their
mistreatment, sitting ducks for opportunists?  Or maybe these taxpayers are
equally immoral, thinking only about promised benefits, forgetting about
the disadvantage of losing control over the quality of their life?

It's possible for some people to override the boundaries of decency, even
if they're otherwise smart enough to pursue science.  But what would you
expect cryptographers to do about it?


    ..
Blanc






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Mon Jan 12 19:18:48 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:18:48 +0800
Subject: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: Eternity Services)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801130246.CAA00384@server.eternity.org>




Tim May  writes:
> News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet
> censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor
> cancellations (and some don't).  Some don't carry the "sensitive"
> newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from
> child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is
> exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including
> the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City.

One tactic which could protect a USENET newsgroup operator from child
porn prosecutions is if he had no practical way to recognize such
materials until after it was distributed to down stream sites.

Using steganography, we could for example adopt a strategy such as
this:

1) Cross-post, and / or post to random newsgroups 

2) Threshold secret split your posts so that only N of M are required
   to reconstruct.

3) steganographically encode the eternity traffic.  Pornographic images
   in alt.binaries.* would be suitable because there are lots of those
   already.  

4) Encrypt the original steganographically encoded posting (encrypt
   the eternity document and hide it inside the image file posted)

5) Post the decryption key a day or two later to ensure we get the full
   feed before a censor can recognize the traffic

The attacker is now forced to delay USENET posts until the key is
posted if he wishes to censor eternity articles.

Measures 1) and 2) address the problems with newsgroups not being
carried everywhere.  2) improves reliability as distribution can be
patchy.

Cancellations can be discouraged by liberal abuse of cancellation
forgeries, which a Dimitri Vulis aided greatly by providing easy to
use cancel bot software.

A worrying trend is the use of NoCeMs to filter whole news feeds,
where the NoCeM rating system I considered was designed for third
party ratings applied by individuals.  NoCeMs could become a negative
if used in this way, because news admins may use them as a tool to
censor large parts of the USENET distribution, in too centralised a
way.

> >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
> >Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of
> 
> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse
> set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and
> when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as
> a spammer. :-) )

The best criticism of my eternity design to date!  I agree.

But this limitation is difficult to avoid while retaining the level of
availability.  Trade offs improving efficiency will tend to move away
from an existing widespread broadcast medium (USENET) towards
specialised protocols, and pull technology (the web hosting model),
leading to actual machines serving materials.

We can probably arrange that these servers do not know what they are
serving, however if the whole protocol is setup specifically for the
purpose of building an eternity service, it will be shut down.

Longer term perhaps something could be achieved in slowly building up
to larger numbers of servers, but this does not seem such a
main-stream service that it would be easy to get this degree of
uptake.

That is to say this problem is more than designing protocols which
would be resilient _if_ they were installed on 10,000 servers around
the world; the problem is as much to do with coming up with a
plausible plan to deploy those servers.

Adam






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Mon Jan 12 19:19:07 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:19:07 +0800
Subject: local vs remote eternity servers (Re: (eternity) Traffic Analysis)
In-Reply-To: <01bd1fad$24885680$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <199801130215.CAA00351@server.eternity.org>




Thomas Womack  writes:
> >Thomas Womack  writes:
> >> I can imagine *use* of
> >> the service becoming a felony; you're therefore committing a felony
> >> merely by connecting to http://www.eternity.to, and acquiring
> >> evidence for that is a trivial matter of logging connections from a
> >> given user.
> >
> >One solution is to run eternity on a web server with SSL turned on,
> >and which serves lots of other data too.
> 
> It's not completely clear that such an object would exist; in legal terms,
> it would seem to be the same as a large and well-respected department store
> which happens to possess and tolerate a fence for stolen property. That is,
> it's an object which handles stolen property and can be shouted at loudly,
> legally, and with very large sticks.

Yes, but merely being seen going into this department store is you
hope not grounds for prosecution.  

ie The flow of the discussion being that you said "you're therefore
committing a felony by connecting to www.eternity.to" .. my reply
being that if we can arrange that there are any number of reasons for
connecting to www.eternity.to, any of which are protected by an SSL
connection, that this lessens the risks of being seen connecting to
said server.  We can easily arrange this by offering interesting free
services.

Certainly turning on SSL does not protect the server operator.  There
server operator in your analogy was the department store owner.  But
we were discussing the client (the shopper)'s risks.

> >The general problem with the remote server approach is that you have
> >to trust the server.  You could alternatively use a local eternity
> >server, which is easy to do if you have a local unix machine.
> 
> The operating system is immaterial here!

Ah, not if you are talking about my eternity prototype, because it 
only works on the unix platform.  Same for Ryan at present I think.
The overloading of "eternity service" is not helping here.

My point was that talking about my eternity prototype using USENET as
a distribution medium, where the `eternity server' is just a
convenient way to present an apparently persistent view of transient
USENET articles, using a local eternity server reduces the risk of
traffic analysis attack.  Now all you are doing is reading news.  If
you already have a full USENET feed, you have no new externally
observable traffic.

This process would be better termed a `local eternity proxy', in that
it would effectively be acting as a local web proxy process, where the
eternity virtual web pages were being fetched from a local news spool
by the local web proxy.

> >Ideally you would like a local news feed also, so that your local
> >eternity servers NNTP traffic or file system accesses to read news are
> >not available to the attacker.
> 
> That nearly makes sense - but 'running a news feed including the eternal.*
> groups' can be phrased such that any sane jury takes it as 'using/running an
> eternity server'.

Cross-post, and / or post to random newsgroups, threshold secret split
your posts so that only N of M are required to reconstruct.  If you
get shouted at for SPAM, steganographically encode the eternity
traffic.  Pornographic images in alt.binaries.* would be suitable
because there are lots of those already.  Because this is a publically
readable message an attacker (such as Ryan's system admin he mentioned
at MIT) might recognize the message based on successful stego
decoding, and purge it from the news feed.  We can counter this move
by encrypting the original posting, and posting the decryption key a
day or two later to ensure we get the full feed before anti-eternity
crusaders get to work purging the eternity traffic masquerading as
images.

USENET carries all sorts of materials which could potentially get you
in trouble.  I don't know what your news feed is like, but the one at
Exeter last time I looked had a healthy selection of dodgy gifs in
alt.binaries.*

> >Depending on your available resources, you can either operate from a
> >local news feed (people are less likely to be prosecuted for the
> >contents of a normal full newsfeed IMO), or have SSL access to a
> >remote ISPs NNTP server.
> 
> I suspect that, had anyone the least intention of arresting certain of my
> acquaintances on a trumped-up charge, they could persuade a jury that a
> 'normal' full newsfeed is sanitised, and that a newsfeed containing *warez*
> or *erotica* is clearly an Evil Perversion of the Natural Law.

We can't do much about the idiotic juries, and corrupt judicial
systems ... `they'd indict a ham sandwich if I told them to' -- some
US judge.  You're probably right too.  But I think we need to keep a
sense of proportion about opening ourselves to having technical
actions misconstrued to a clueless jury: there are easier ways to
frame someone once they have decided they don't like you.

To truly retain plausible deniability you need to maintain excellent
plausible deniability, you have to be squeaky clean: you need to
appear to be a model citizen, to not post politically incorrect
opinions to non-government approved fora, etc.  You must be below the
radar belt, you must be essentially invisible to the government, the
spooks dossier on you must read Mr Average and be entirely wholesome.
Then you must have one or more alter-egos, for your real interests.

> >> How can you defend against the felonisation of 'operating an Eternity
> >> Server'?
> >
> >Operate closed eternity servers for small group only, or a local
> >server for yourself or local users only.
> 
> But wasn't the point of the eternity service that it was massively
> distributed; if you're running a server for a small group consisting of
> forty-nine hackers and the deputy director of the NSA going incognito,
> you'll suddenly discover that all your servers have been seized, and that
> men with intimidating glasses want to ask you a number of searching
> questions.

The surest way is to run the eternity server for yourself only.  The
distribution medium is massively distributed, as the distribution
medium is USENET.  USENET is a broadcast medium.  Possibly the most
secure way to create one way anonymous communications is to broadcast
the messages.  Tim May's BlackNet uses this approach.  Eternity is
doing the same thing.

Adam






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Mon Jan 12 19:19:24 1998
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:19:24 +0800
Subject: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash
Message-ID: <199801130314.DAA00409@server.eternity.org>




Some meta-level thoughts on the eternity service document availability
problem:

Many of the problems with designing an eternity service are introduced
by trying to build real time accessibility of data (with similar
response times for documents to those offered by web servers).

The BlackNet model can quite ably provide eternity like services with
perhaps 24 hour turn around on documents.  Everything is operated by
digital dead drop (via say news:alt.anonymous.messages), or mixmaster
remailers.

This suggests that another approach would be to have two classes of
services.  Users of high risk documents can put up with 24 hour turn
around, and lower risk documents can be served by an alternate
service, intermediate risk documents can exist by using low risk
resources until detection.

The low risk document service could be just an automated mirroring
service, and could for example explicitly state that illegal materials
in server localities will be removed on the server operator becoming
aware of this fact, or perhaps on receipt of court notification.  This
presents the kind of "we aim to discourage illegal materials" persona
that commercial ISPs like to present to the police and spooks.

It might also be useful to partially automate the differences in types
of material which can be hosted in various jurisdictions.

Scandinavian countries might be used for pornography in the 14 - 21
year old range; other jurisdictions useful for copyright music
materials, where music royalties are collected by a blank media tax;
the US might be useful for publication of materials critical of
Islamic beliefs, and so on, in each case the materials being strictly
legal in the server locality.

The mirroring service could be offered by mirror site operators as a
public service for locally controversial materials, or services could
be charged for to improve long term availability.

If the mirroring service is automated, it is likely that materials
will slip through the gaps in the system (especially if it is designed
with this property in mind), much like warez used to be traded in
funny named directories on badly configured ftp servers, or world read
and writeable ftp incoming directories.

The operator says "darn warez pirates" and removes the offending warez
when he is notified.  But it might stay up for a few weeks, and URLs
spread quickly, and there are lots of open access sites.


Another less controversial "host" service which warez pirates might be
likely to get away with abusing would be simple web space available
for ecash.  Lance Cottrell already offers this such anonymous web
accounts.  If many ISPs start offering this kind of service, the
pirates will be more easily able to keep going by hopping from account
to account, as accounts are closed for breach of policy, in a similar
way that spammers treat accounts as disposable.


A TAZ server could even offer a persistent virtual URL to a migrating
warez file collection located either on mirroring sites, or on
anonymous ecash paid web accounts.  (TAZ servers just offer a layer of
indirection, see Ian Goldberg and Dave Wagner's paper:

	http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/cs268/

)

Adam






From tcmay at got.net  Mon Jan 12 19:37:47 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:37:47 +0800
Subject: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: EternityServices)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 6:46 PM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote:

>One tactic which could protect a USENET newsgroup operator from child
>porn prosecutions is if he had no practical way to recognize such
>materials until after it was distributed to down stream sites.

Who are these "USENET newsgroup operators," anyway? (A few newsgroups are
moderated, by individuals or committees, but the vast majority are not.)

Newsgroups get removed from university and corporate newsfeeds, or by
nations, and Adam's ruse would not stop them from continuing to do so.


>> >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers.
>> >Have agents which you pay to repost.  This presents the illusion of
>>
>> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse
>> set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and
>> when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as
>> a spammer. :-) )
>
>The best criticism of my eternity design to date!  I agree.

I assume you are serious, and do agree, as it is a very solid criticism of
the "Eternity as continuous posting to Usenet" model.

I see several axes to the analysis of the various Eternity schemes.

-- retrieval time for a customer or client to obtain some set of data,
ranging from (I assume) ~minutes or less in an Eternity DDS file system to
~days or less in a Blacknet system to (I am guessing) ~weeks or months in
an Adam Back sort of system.

(Given constraints on Usenet in existence today. Technological and
political constraints in how many gigabytes will be sent. The binaries
groups are already overloading many systems, of course.)

-- bandwidth consumed in the system

-- number of nodes

-- security

(I have my own biases, and will elaborate when I get some time to put my
thoughts together.)


--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From anon at anon.efga.org  Mon Jan 12 19:38:59 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:38:59 +0800
Subject: Tales of the Crypto
Message-ID: 




               Tales of the Crypto

               U.S. government works to replace Data
               Encryption Standard

               By Jim Kerstetter, PC Week Online 
               01.12.98 10:00 am ET 

               The days of DES, which for the
               past 20 years has been the
               foundation for government and
               commercial cryptography around
               the world, are numbered.

               The U.S. government has
               embarked on an expansive
               project to replace the Data
               Encryption Standard. By the end
               of this year, a panel of
               cryptographers, headed by the
               National Institute of Standards
               and Technology, is expected to
               pick a new cryptographic
               algorithm to replace DES as the
               government's standard.

               The changeover to the new
               algorithm, to be called the
               Advanced Encryption Standard,
               won't happen overnight. In fact,
               the selection process could end
               up taking years. But whatever
               AES ultimately becomes, one
               thing is clear: The new standard
               will force major change for both
               the IT and developer
               communities.

               Anyone selling the government software that uses
               encryption for security will have to support the AES
               algorithm, which could become the standard for
               decades to come. Corporations conducting secure
               transactions with the government over the Internet will
               also have to rely on software that supports AES. And,
               in several years, AES could replace DES for private-key
               encryption in most commercial security algorithms.

               "Right now, I'm using PGP [Pretty Good Privacy] for
               some things. But the bulk of what we use here is with
               DES," said Paul O'Donnell, security manager at an
               Illinois manufacturer. "Should I be paying attention to
               what they [NIST] are doing? I suppose so."

               It's a change many say is overdue. DES was developed
               by IBM and the government in the 1970s. It was
               intended to last five to 10 years, said Dennis Branstad,
               an early DES developer for NIST's forerunner, the
               Institute of Computer Sciences and Technology.

               "It was a good algorithm. It turned out to be better
               than we thought," said Branstad, now director of
               cryptographic technologies at Trusted Information
               Systems Inc., in Glenwood, Md. "But it took longer to
               be accepted than we thought it would. There was no
               demand for it."

               DES is a symmetric, or private, key algorithm in which
               both the sender and receiver of a message must have a
               copy of the private key. It also can be used to encrypt
               data on a hard disk. It is found in an array of security
               protocols in the corporate world, ranging from secure
               E-mail software to virtual private network technology.

               DES' 56-bit private keys were unhackable until last
               year, when a nationwide network of computer users
               broke a DES key in 140 days--hardly an easy effort,
               but a harbinger of things to come as processing speed
               increases. Some experts now argue that it could take
               less than a week to break DES, with less than
               $100,000 worth of hardware. According to John Callas,
               chief technology officer of the Total Network Security
               Division of Network Associates Inc., a good hacker,
               with about $50,000 worth of specialty hardware, could
               crack a DES key in an hour.

               "Anybody who can afford a BMW can afford a DES
               cracker," said Callas, whose hypothesis will be tested
               in DES Challenge II this week at the RSA Data
               Security Conference, in San Francisco.

               Since most experts agree it's time to replace DES, the
               question becomes, Just what will AES be?

               Last summer, NIST released a 30-page document
               outlining its recommendations for a DES replacement
               and asking for submissions. There are three minimum
               technical criteria:

                    The algorithm must be symmetric, or private, key.
                    Public algorithms, such as elliptic curve (see
                    related story) and Diffie-Hellman, though useful
                    for authentication and the initial handshake
                    between users, are considered too slow.

                    The algorithm must be a "block cipher." Within
                    the realm of symmetric keys there are two basic
                    types of ciphers, block and stream. A block
                    cipher, like DES, encrypts specific chunks of
                    data. A stream cipher, like RSA Data Security
                    Inc.'s RC4 algorithm, encrypts a steady flow of
                    information. RC4 is the base encryption engine
                    for Secure Sockets Layer, the security technology
                    used in browsers. Some cryptographers are
                    pushing NIST to consider stream ciphers because
                    of their growing popularity.

                    The algorithm has to be capable of supporting key
                    lengths ranging from 128 bits to 256 bits and
                    variable blocks of data.

               AES must also be efficient. Triple DES, a later version
               of the government's algorithm also developed by IBM,
               is far more secure than DES, running the 56-bit
               encryption three times. But that strength is also its
               weakness, because the repetition cycle slows it down
               considerably.

               Finally, the AES algorithm has to be made public and
               royalty-free. That could prove to be a sticking point for
               RSA, of Redwood City, Calif., which has traditionally
               held on to the royalties of its cryptographic creations.

               A conference at which cryptographers will present
               their algorithms is scheduled for this summer. And
               although NIST officials hope their analysis will be
               completed in 1998, many think it may take years to
               review the submittals, which are due by April 15.

               Major security vendors are noncommittal on proposing
               an algorithm. IBM, which created DES, with help from
               the National Security Agency, is hedging on whether it
               will participate. Triple DES is considered a likely entry,
               but its inefficiency could make it a difficult sell.
               Another IBM algorithm, DES/SK, could be in the
               running. RSA, if it decides to enter, could submit
               either its RC4 algorithm (the stream cipher) or RC5,
               which is a block cipher.

               Other likely competitors include Cast, a royalty-free
               algorithm controlled by Entrust Technologies Inc., or
               the unpatented Blowfish algorithm, created by Bruce
               Schneier.

               "It will be a standard for 20 to 30 years, in legacy
               systems for at least another 10, securing data that
               might need to be secured for at least another 20,"
               Schneier wrote in a letter to NIST. "This means we are
               trying to estimate security in the year 2060. I can't
               estimate security 10 years from now, let alone 60. The
               only wise option is to be very conservative."

                       A Data Encryption Standard primer

                     What is DES?
                     It was designed by IBM and endorsed by the U.S.
                     government in 1977.

                     What kind of encryption key does DES use?
                     A symmetric, or private, key in which both the sender
                     and the receiver know the key. It can also be used to
                     encrypt data on a hard disk.

                     What key length does DES use?
                     56 bits.

                     Is DES safe?
                     For most purposes, yes. But DES was hacked for the
                     first time last year, and cryptographers worry that
                     improved processing speeds will spell its demise.




                 









From tcmay at got.net  Mon Jan 12 19:41:34 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:41:34 +0800
Subject: Feds to Idaho: Kiss Our Butts
In-Reply-To: <199801130255.UAA21084@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 



At 6:55 PM -0800 1/12/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>The manslaughter case against Ruby Ridge shooter Lon Horiuchi was
>effectively neutered today when a federal judge acquiesed to demands
>by Justice Department lawyers and moved the case out of Idaho's
>jurisdiction and into federal court.  This means that Horiuchi will be
>tried in federal court in front of a federal jury on state
>manslaughter charges, and not in front of a jury from Idaho's Boundary
>County, where the shooting took place.
>
>This ruling, by U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge, came just six days
>after Boundary County Magistrate Quentin Harden ordered Horiuchi to
>stand trial.  State manslaughter charges had been filed against
>Horiuchi for the death of Vicki Weaver in August.
>
>The Justice Department, which has denied that Horiuchi did anything
>wrong, provided the lawyers who argued that any case in which federal
>agents are acting in their official capacity may be transferred and
>tried in federal court, in front of a federal jury.
>
>The trial is scheduled to begin March 10.  Horiochi has continued to
>work for the FBI since the charges were filed.

The militia groups have known this was a foregone conclusion from the
gitgo. This is why they are advocating frontier justice for Horiuchi.

(However, exhaustive searches for this murderer have not turned up evidence
of him. If he's "continuing to work for the FBI," it's from a safe house,
or with a new name. Probably a safe house, as no one has reported seeing
him near Federal buildings, either.)

The guy's probably dead meat anyway.

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From Wardemon at erols.com  Mon Jan 12 19:42:52 1998
From: Wardemon at erols.com (Wardemon)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:42:52 +0800
Subject: HP BBS's? Telnet?
Message-ID: <199801130340.WAA19281@smtp3.erols.com>



Does anyone have any elite HP BBS's that I could telnet to ????
Thanks

wardemon at erols.com






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 19:43:44 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:43:44 +0800
Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801130410.WAA25119@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:14:05 -0800
> From: Blanc 
> Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality 

> >something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something
> >that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? 
> ............................................................
> 
> No.  There are, however, immoral scientists.

According to who? The scientist who is supposedly immoral? Obviously their
actions aren't against their beliefs. The observer who is claiming it is
immoral because they *believe* it to be immoral? Morality is a function of
human psychology and not a fundamental result of existance. The relationship
is similar to that between A, T, C, G, U and the genome.

> actual manner of existence:  "science" does not exist without those
> individuals who have set themselves to pursue it.  They should bear the
> blame if they practice it immorally.

Who is so moral that they may decide what is immoral? If you're a Christian
the answer is simple 'judge not lest ye be judged'. Jesus stopped the
stonning of an adulteress by saying that he who was without sin could throw
the first stone. Since he was the only one without sin (by defintion in
Christianity) he should have been the one to throw the first stone. What did
he do? He sent everyone home with the admonishment to sin no more.

> .  being smart enough to pursue scientific research

It doesn't necessarily take smarts.

> .  being successful in the scientific pursuit of truths

What truths? Science isn't involved in 'truth' let alone 'Truth'.

> .  giving a damn about the consequences of the effects of research as it
> affects humanity or other living things (as when it is imposed upon them)

So you propose that ignorance of the consequences will some how protect us?

> .  responsibility in science

Responsibility to who? The person(s) paying the bill, your fellow scientist,
the society you live in, the world you inhabit, the generations to follow?

> .  responsibility in science as practiced by mendicants of the State

Don't confuse working for the state as something that somehow mediates the
basic tenents of science. If to get the job you may have to give up some
scientific practices then at that point you aren't practicing science anymore.

> .  the regulation of the methods of science

That's easy, the theories work when applied in experiments.

> I become exceedingly uncomfortable at the realization that I have to buy an
> astronomy magazine from the store, paying yet again for info, in order to
> find out some of what they're doing at NASA.

Try:

www.nasa.gov
jpl.nasa.gov
or simply send email to Ron Baalke at JPL (you could call him on the phone
if you don't mind paying the bill)

>  To think that a responsible
> citizen like myself must go out searching for the info themselves, using
> whatever resources they can find or pay for, in order to become informed!

Why do they have a responsibility to drop it on your doorstep?

> There is a book in Objectivist literature which presents the idea of

What book?

> "context dropping", which is, that in order for some people to function as
> if things were normal and that what they're doing is consistent with moral
> principles, they must drop a part of their information out of sight, out of
> thought, so that their actions appear logically related and make sense  -
> they eliminate elements from the given context, crucial essentials which
> make the difference in its character.  People like these might practice
> secrecy in keeping information from others, but equally significant, they
> also hide things from themselves.

Everyone is like that. It is one of the reasons science requires public
dialog on its results. You can fool some of the people most of the time,
most of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all
the time.

Sooner or later somebody will notice the king (theory) is butt naked
(doesn't work when applied in experiment).

> It's possible for some people to override the boundaries of decency, even
> if they're otherwise smart enough to pursue science.  But what would you
> expect cryptographers to do about it?

Cryptographers are scientist also.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 19:52:18 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:52:18 +0800
Subject: HP BBS's? Telnet? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801130417.WAA25237@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> From: "Wardemon" 
> Subject: HP BBS's? Telnet?
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:37:34 -0500

> Does anyone have any elite HP BBS's that I could telnet to ????
> Thanks

I usualy use ftp.hp.com

What version of HP/UX are you running?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From tcmay at got.net  Mon Jan 12 19:53:48 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:53:48 +0800
Subject: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash
In-Reply-To: <199801130314.DAA00409@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 



At 7:14 PM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote:
>Some meta-level thoughts on the eternity service document availability
>problem:
>
>Many of the problems with designing an eternity service are introduced
>by trying to build real time accessibility of data (with similar
>response times for documents to those offered by web servers).
>
>The BlackNet model can quite ably provide eternity like services with
>perhaps 24 hour turn around on documents.  Everything is operated by
>digital dead drop (via say news:alt.anonymous.messages), or mixmaster
>remailers.

Ah, I just saw this message after already sending my last message, where I
described several axes. I even cited the same estimate, of "~days," for the
latency of Blacknet sorts of Eternity implementations.

Adam and I are apparently thinking similar sorts of thoughts. A pity we
waste so much time at Cypherpunks physical meetings getting "updates" on
commercial (and boring, from an issues viewpoint) crypto products when some
exciting seminars and brainstormings on these sorts of issues would be so
much more fun.

(Note: I shouldn't be criticizing Cypherpunks physical meetings too much. I
suppose they serve a purpose, and the Bay Area community has moved away
from "exotic" applications and ideas to more commercial issues. And why I
basically don't go to meetings much anymore.)

Back to Back:

>This suggests that another approach would be to have two classes of
>services.  Users of high risk documents can put up with 24 hour turn
>around, and lower risk documents can be served by an alternate
>service, intermediate risk documents can exist by using low risk
>resources until detection.

Here's a meta-question: Suppose one holds highly secret or sensitive data,
for which one wants to use an Eternity service to ensure the information is
not suppressed by some government or other actor.

Why centralize the data at all?

Why not just use the "pointer" to the data and offer to provide it?

Which is what Blacknet was all about. Instead of focussing on a data base,
focus instead on an untraceable market mechanism.

(I admit that a system which can provide *A LOT* of data *VERY FAST*, and
also untraceably or unstoppably, is an attractive goal. It would blow both
Adam's "repost to Usenet" and my "Blacknet" approaches to hell and gone.
The catch is that I can't see how such a system will get built, who will
run the nodes, how payment will be made to pay for the nodes and work, and
how traffic analysis will be defeated.)

And I think implementing the slower-but-no-breakthroughs approach (Blacknet
or variations) has some advantages. It may be many years before we need to
be in the corner of the graph that is "large amounts of data--very fast
retrieval--very secure."

Most candidates for untraceable/secure storage and retrieval are NOT in
this corner, yet. (Kiddie porn may be, but whistleblowing and scientific
information are not.)

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From brianbr at together.net  Mon Jan 12 20:08:57 1998
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:08:57 +0800
Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning
Message-ID: <199801130405.XAA26577@mx02.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 1/12/98 3:32 PM, Tim May (tcmay at got.net)  passed this wisdom:

>Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make 
>certain types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, 
>why not a ban on certain types of mathematics research?  

 I think many of us are understandably nervous about the mistakes that
could be made in the process of perfecting human cloning. But Tim's
point is well taken, yet another potential 'slippery slope.'

  It also begs the question again of 'are we getting too paranoid?' I
think the nanswer is still "no, not yet", as the Klinton
administration proves to us almost every day it seems.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNLroFD7r4fUXwraZAQF9Cwf6AtGeZgKDN3nwY0FMsxoTgwXgalRmjGJT
gqliyEIdYfqcQK/kGTFYvBbcGd0xl1dr+XpmJXvr7ItQ8lrsyyqEozGC2KJGYpJe
7C8nMl/nf49Pd4UcJRNZb86qAdwAB7wERW7nL8aGB5Bzm46tKEeaAS2jrzxVOgIt
z7ysxDd+VNoU2czWrergrhvDjbtnXKjPVcIfwkN0M57SJgdWqIlX/fo5HLuiw8IZ
i/Qg8JsLXJgnWr5ZDgrSRSNgVqmwAaV8980piBGyqY0X9ytOcYdjV197+rz55Hkh
iqzIQm6aQa5BJuDy3p8B44LlICtxFB0XZP1UdgvRCbFWO3YD8P3mOA==
=O6Dk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

   "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts"  
           John Wooden







From tcmay at got.net  Mon Jan 12 20:36:59 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:36:59 +0800
Subject: Announcement: Clonerpunks mailing list
In-Reply-To: <199801130405.XAA26577@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 



At 8:05 PM -0800 1/12/98, Brian B. Riley wrote:

>On 1/12/98 3:32 PM, Tim May (tcmay at got.net)  passed this wisdom:
>
>>Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make
>>certain types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth,
>>why not a ban on certain types of mathematics research?
>
> I think many of us are understandably nervous about the mistakes that
>could be made in the process of perfecting human cloning. But Tim's
>point is well taken, yet another potential 'slippery slope.'
>


To subscribe to the Clonerpunks list, send a message to
majordomo at dolly.com, with the message body, "subscribe clonerpunks".

The Clonerpunks list is a high-volume list devoted to the issues and
technology surrounding human and animal cloning. Clones are welcome.

Warning: Participation by U.S. subjects, or visitors to the U.S., or those
who have ever watched American television, is not allowed on the
Clonerpunks list, under the terms of the Children's Safety and Human
Decency Act of 1998.

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From anon at anon.efga.org  Mon Jan 12 20:38:07 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:38:07 +0800
Subject: Crypto Jokes
Message-ID: <1fcdbf50ad69ffa37f0660c6b77013e9@anon.efga.org>



>Inspired by "Crypto Kong," contributions of crypto jokes
>are requested, to enliven our Web site, which is pretty
>gray these days without congressional buffoonery.

Just post the contents of http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm. Those people
are just plain stupid.






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Mon Jan 12 21:17:11 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:17:11 +0800
Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801130510.GAA26649@basement.replay.com>



On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote:

[...]
> Clinton is asking Congress to ban research into human cloning.
[...]
> No, Clinton is asking for Congress to *ban* such research, regardless of
> where the funding came from. "Clone a cell, go to jail."
[...]
> Though I'm not a constitutional expert, this would seem to me to be a
> violation of various rights. A First Amendment right to speak and publish
> as one wishes for one, a Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure

Actually, not at all.

There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the
activity.  Hence the first amendment is not implicated.  If it were the
case the every action (as opposed to speech/publication) were protected by
the 1st Am. then every statute making robbery a crime would be
unconstitutional too.

Similarly, the 4th Am. is not implicated.  The right to be secure against
UNREASONABLE search and seizure is not violated when and if congress
passes a law defining a new crime, or you are arrested for committing it.

> and to be secure in one's papers, and probably more general rights that
> have long-held that government agents cannot tell people what books they

again, note that the ban is on CLONING, not THINKING OR WRITING OR READING
about cloning.  It's not the same thing. 

> may read, what thinking they may do, and  whom they may asssociate with (if
> the Civil Rights Act is viewed as the unconstitutional anomaly it is).

This is an aside, but the CRA is in no way anomalous given the 13th, 14th
and 15th Amendments.  It is only "anomalous" if one sticks to the
Constitution as written in the 18th century... and ignores the articles
written in that same century that clearly contemplate amendments....

[...]
> 
> But a ban on cloning research would not be a matter of "national security,"
> only of ethics and religious beliefs. Whatever the arguments for banning
> unapproved research into CBW and nuclear weapons, banning cloning research
> is an entirely different set of issues.
> 

Arguably, many of the legal bans in force today are due to ethics, e.g.:

* bans on suicide
* bans on plural marriage
* bans on certain abortions
* bans on ingestion of some substances

The courts in their infinite wisdom have not found these to be
unconstitutional laws.

> Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make certain
> types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, why not a ban on

Again, this misunderstands somewhat: the ban is on EXPERIMENTS (which are
indeed part of the search for truth), but not writing, reading thinking

> certain types of mathematics research?

Not directly, IMHO.

A. Michael Froomkin        � +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
Associate Professor of Law � 
U. Miami School of Law     � froomkin at law.miami.edu
P.O. Box 248087            � http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/
Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA � It's warm here.







From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 21:45:14 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:45:14 +0800
Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801130612.AAA25763@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:10:14 +0100 (MET)
> Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning
> From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)

> > Though I'm not a constitutional expert, this would seem to me to be a
> > violation of various rights. A First Amendment right to speak and publish
> > as one wishes for one, a Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure
> 
> Actually, not at all.
> 
> There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the
> activity.

Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish.
By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of
the results of that scientific research.

>  Hence the first amendment is not implicated.  If it were the
> case the every action (as opposed to speech/publication) were protected by
> the 1st Am. then every statute making robbery a crime would be
> unconstitutional too.

Not at all. Equating swinging of ones fist in a empty field and swinging it
into somebodies nose and then taking that supposition as justification to
ban fist swinging *is* most certainly unconstitutional. Furthermore, robbery
isn't illegal under the Constitution unless its the federal government
taking the material and refusing to follow the Constitutional directive to
pay for *all* property, irrespective of how it was gained, for public use as
those duties are relegated per the 10th to the purvue of the states.

> Similarly, the 4th Am. is not implicated.  The right to be secure against
> UNREASONABLE search and seizure is not violated when and if congress
> passes a law defining a new crime, or you are arrested for committing it.

The question here is whether Congress even *has* the power to regulate those
sorts of behaviours without an amendment being passed by the states to
surrender their authority per the 9th and 10th to the federal government.

> > and to be secure in one's papers, and probably more general rights that
> > have long-held that government agents cannot tell people what books they
> 
> again, note that the ban is on CLONING, not THINKING OR WRITING OR READING
> about cloning.  It's not the same thing. 

Without doing the research it isn't possible to think very much about
cloning except in a *very* abstract manner. That forcing of abstraction
against ones will may very well infact be unconstitutional.

> > may read, what thinking they may do, and  whom they may asssociate with (if
> > the Civil Rights Act is viewed as the unconstitutional anomaly it is).
> 
> This is an aside, but the CRA is in no way anomalous given the 13th, 14th
> and 15th Amendments.  It is only "anomalous" if one sticks to the
> Constitution as written in the 18th century... and ignores the articles
> written in that same century that clearly contemplate amendments....

The articles contemplating the amendments are irrelevant to this issue. Only
the actual amendments are relevant. What people might *want* to do has
nothing to do with what they *can* do under the limiting documents of this
country.

> > But a ban on cloning research would not be a matter of "national security,"
> > only of ethics and religious beliefs. Whatever the arguments for banning
> > unapproved research into CBW and nuclear weapons, banning cloning research
> > is an entirely different set of issues.
> > 
> 
> Arguably, many of the legal bans in force today are due to ethics, e.g.:

No, they are a result of political wrangling by small groups to gain
political power and the economic and social conseuences thereof. They also
result from a clearly premeditated absolution of the Constitution that these
self same 'representatives' gave an oath to uphold with their lives. The
justification that is profered is the ethics of the constituents.

> A. Michael Froomkin        � +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
> Associate Professor of Law � 
> U. Miami School of Law     � froomkin at law.miami.edu
> P.O. Box 248087            � http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/
> Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA � It's warm here.

Your a law professor and your logic, respect for the Constitution, and
basic scientific comprehension is this bad? No damn wonder we're in the shit
hole we're in now...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From anon at anon.efga.org  Mon Jan 12 22:03:18 1998
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:03:18 +0800
Subject: Description of the RC2(r) Encryption Algorithm
Message-ID: 




                                                            Ron Rivest
                                   MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
                                           and RSA Data Security, Inc.
                                                         November 1997
Request for Comments:
Category: Informational                 

           
            A Description of the RC2(r) Encryption Algorithm


Status of this Memo

This memo provides information for the Internet community.  This memo
does not specify an Internet standard of any kind.  Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working
documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute
working documents as Internet-Drafts.
 
Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material
or to cite them other than as "work in progress."
 
To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the
"1id-abstracts.txt" listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow
Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe),
munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or
ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast).


1. Introduction

This draft is an RSA Laboratories Technical Note. It is meant for
informational use by the Internet community.

This memo describes a conventional (secret-key) block encryption
algorithm, called RC2, which may be considered as a proposal for 
a DES replacement. The input and output block sizes are 64 bits 
each. The key size is variable, from one byte up to 128 bytes, 
although the current implementation uses eight bytes.

The algorithm is designed to be easy to implement on 16-bit
microprocessors. On an IBM AT, the encryption runs about twice as fast
as DES (assuming that key expansion has been done).

1.1 Algorithm description

We use the term "word" to denote a 16-bit quantity. The symbol + 
will denote twos-complement addition. The symbol & will denote 
the bitwise "and" operation. The term XOR will denote the bitwise
"exclusive-or" operation. The symbol ~ will denote bitwise 
complement.  The symbol ^ will denote the exponentiation 
operation.  The term MOD will denote the modulo operation.

There are three separate algorithms involved:

  Key expansion. This takes a (variable-length) input key and
  produces an expanded key consisting of 64 words K[0],...,K[63].

  Encryption. This takes a 64-bit input quantity stored in words
  R[0], ..., R[3] and encrypts it "in place" (the result is left 
  in R[0], ..., R[3]).

  Decryption. The inverse operation to encryption.


2. Key expansion

Since we will be dealing with eight-bit byte operations as well
as 16-bit word operations, we will use two alternative notations

for referring to the key buffer:

     For word operations, we will refer to the positions of the
          buffer as K[0], ..., K[63]; each K[i] is a 16-bit word.
          
     For byte operations,  we will refer to the key buffer as
          L[0], ..., L[127]; each L[i] is an eight-bit byte.
          
These are alternative views of the same data buffer. At all times
it will be true that

              K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1].

(Note that the low-order byte of each K word is given before the
high-order byte.)

We will assume that exactly T bytes of key are supplied, for some
T in the range 1 <= T <= 128. (Our current implementation uses T
= 8.) However, regardless of T, the algorithm has a maximum
effective key length in bits, denoted T1. That is, the search
space is 2^(8*T), or 2^T1, whichever is smaller.

The purpose of the key-expansion algorithm is to modify the key
buffer so that each bit of the expanded key depends in a
complicated way on every bit of the supplied input key.

The key expansion algorithm begins by placing the supplied T-byte
key into bytes L[0], ..., L[T-1] of the key buffer.

The key expansion algorithm then computes the effective key
length in bytes T8 and a mask TM based on the effective key
length in bits T1. It uses the following operations:

T8 = (T1+7)/8;
TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8);

Thus TM has its 8 - (8*T8 - T1) least significant bits set.

For example, with an effective key length of 64 bits, T1 = 64,
T8 = 8 and TM = 0xff.  With an effective key length of 63 bits,
T1 = 63, T8 = 8 and TM = 0x7f.

Here PITABLE[0], ..., PITABLE[255] is an array of "random" bytes
based on the digits of PI = 3.14159... . More precisely, the 
array PITABLE is a random permutation of the values 0, ..., 255. 
Here is the PITABLE in hexadecimal notation:

     0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  a  b  c  d  e  f
00: d9 78 f9 c4 19 dd b5 ed 28 e9 fd 79 4a a0 d8 9d
10: c6 7e 37 83 2b 76 53 8e 62 4c 64 88 44 8b fb a2
20: 17 9a 59 f5 87 b3 4f 13 61 45 6d 8d 09 81 7d 32
30: bd 8f 40 eb 86 b7 7b 0b f0 95 21 22 5c 6b 4e 82
40: 54 d6 65 93 ce 60 b2 1c 73 56 c0 14 a7 8c f1 dc
50: 12 75 ca 1f 3b be e4 d1 42 3d d4 30 a3 3c b6 26
60: 6f bf 0e da 46 69 07 57 27 f2 1d 9b bc 94 43 03
70: f8 11 c7 f6 90 ef 3e e7 06 c3 d5 2f c8 66 1e d7
80: 08 e8 ea de 80 52 ee f7 84 aa 72 ac 35 4d 6a 2a
90: 96 1a d2 71 5a 15 49 74 4b 9f d0 5e 04 18 a4 ec
a0: c2 e0 41 6e 0f 51 cb cc 24 91 af 50 a1 f4 70 39
b0: 99 7c 3a 85 23 b8 b4 7a fc 02 36 5b 25 55 97 31
c0: 2d 5d fa 98 e3 8a 92 ae 05 df 29 10 67 6c ba c9
d0: d3 00 e6 cf e1 9e a8 2c 63 16 01 3f 58 e2 89 a9
e0: 0d 38 34 1b ab 33 ff b0 bb 48 0c 5f b9 b1 cd 2e
f0: c5 f3 db 47 e5 a5 9c 77 0a a6 20 68 fe 7f c1 ad

The key expansion operation consists of the following two loops
and intermediate step:

for i = T, T+1, ..., 127 do
  L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]];

L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM];

for i = 127-T8, ..., 0 do
  L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]];

(In the first loop, the addition of L[i-1] and L[i-T] is
performed modulo 256.)

The "effective key" consists of the values L[128-T8],..., L[127].
The intermediate step's bitwise "and" operation reduces the
search space for L[128-T8] so that the effective number of key
bits is T1. The expanded key depends only on the effective key
bits, regardless of the supplied key K. Since the expanded key is
not itself modified during encryption or decryption, as a
pragmatic matter one can expand the key just once when encrypting
or decrypting a large block of data.


3. Encryption algorithm

The encryption operation is defined in terms of primitive "mix"
and "mash" operations.

Here the expression "x rol k" denotes the 16-bit word x rotated
left by k bits, with the bits shifted out the top end entering
the bottom end.

3.1 Mix up R[i]

The primitive "Mix up R[i]" operation is defined as follows,
where s[0] is 1, s[1] is 2, s[2] is 3, and s[3] is 5, and where
the indices of the array R are always to be considered "modulo
4," so that R[i-1] refers to R[3] if i is 0 (these values are

"wrapped around" so that R always has a subscript in the range 0
to 3 inclusive):

R[i] = R[i] + K[j] + (R[i-1] & R[i-2]) + ((~R[i-1]) & R[i-3]);
j = j + 1;
R[i] = R[i] rol s[i];

In words: The next key word K[j] is added to R[i], and j is
advanced. Then R[i-1] is used to create a "composite" word which
is added to R[i]. The composite word is identical with R[i-2] in
those positions where R[i-1] is one, and identical to R[i-3] in
those positions where R[i-1] is zero. Then R[i] is rotated left
by s[i] bits (bits rotated out the left end of R[i] are brought
back in at the right). Here j is a "global" variable so that K[j]
is always the first key word in the expanded key which has not
yet been used in a "mix" operation.

3.2 Mixing round

A "mixing round" consists of the following operations:

Mix up R[0]
Mix up R[1]
Mix up R[2]
Mix up R[3]

3.3 Mash R[i]

The primitive "Mash R[i]" operation is defined as follows (using
the previous conventions regarding subscripts for R):

R[i] = R[i] + K[R[i-1] & 63];

In words: R[i] is "mashed" by adding to it one of the words of
the expanded key. The key word to be used is determined by
looking at the low-order six bits of R[i-1], and using that as an
index into the key array K.

3.4 Mashing round

A "mashing round" consists of:

Mash R[0]
Mash R[1]
Mash R[2]
Mash R[3]

3.5 Encryption operation

The entire encryption operation can now be described as follows. 
Here j is a global integer variable which is affected by the
mixing operations.

     1. Initialize words R[0], ..., R[3] to contain the 
        64-bit input value.

     2. Expand the key, so that words K[0], ..., K[63] become
        defined.

     3. Initialize j to zero.

     4. Perform five mixing rounds.

     5. Perform one mashing round.

     6. Perform six mixing rounds.

     7. Perform one mashing round.

     8. Perform five mixing rounds.

Note that each mixing round uses four key words, and that there
are 16 mixing rounds altogether, so that each key word is used
exactly once in a mixing round. The mashing rounds will refer to
up to eight of the key words in a data-dependent manner. (There
may be repetitions, and the actual set of words referred to will
vary from encryption to encryption.)

4. Decryption algorithm

The decryption operation is defined in terms of primitive 
operations that undo the "mix" and "mash" operations of the 
encryption algorithm. They are named "r-mix" and "r-mash" 
(r- denotes the reverse operation).

Here the expression "x ror k" denotes the 16-bit word x rotated
right by k bits, with the bits shifted out the bottom end 
entering the top end.

4.1 R-Mix up R[i]

The primitive "R-Mix up R[i]" operation is defined as follows,
where s[0] is 1, s[1] is 2, s[2] is 3, and s[3] is 5, and where
the indices of the array R are always to be considered "modulo
4," so that R[i-1] refers to R[3] if i is 0 (these values are
"wrapped around" so that R always has a subscript in the range 0
to 3 inclusive):

R[i] = R[i] ror s[i];
R[i] = R[i] - K[j] - (R[i-1] & R[i-2]) - ((~R[i-1]) & R[i-3]);
j = j - 1;

In words: R[i] is rotated right
by s[i] bits (bits rotated out the right end of R[i] are brought
back in at the left). Here j is a "global" variable so that K[j]
is always the key word with greatest index in the expanded key 
which has not yet been used in a "r-mix" operation. The key word 
K[j] is subtracted from R[i], and j is decremented. R[i-1] is 
used to create a "composite" word which is subtracted from R[i]. 
The composite word is identical with R[i-2] in those positions 
where R[i-1] is one, and identical to R[i-3] in those positions 
where R[i-1] is zero. 

4.2 R-Mixing round

An "r-mixing round" consists of the following operations:

R-Mix up R[3]
R-Mix up R[2]
R-Mix up R[1]
R-Mix up R[0]

4.3 R-Mash R[i]

The primitive "R-Mash R[i]" operation is defined as follows 
(using the previous conventions regarding subscripts for R):

R[i] = R[i] - K[R[i-1] & 63];

In words: R[i] is "r-mashed" by subtracting from it one of the 
words of the expanded key. The key word to be used is determined 
by looking at the low-order six bits of R[i-1], and using that as
an index into the key array K.

4.4 R-Mashing round

An "r-mashing round" consists of:

R-Mash R[3]
R-Mash R[2]
R-Mash R[1]
R-Mash R[0]

4.5 Decryption operation

The entire decryption operation can now be described as follows.
Here j is a global integer variable which is affected by the
mixing operations.

     1. Initialize words R[0], ..., R[3] to contain the 64-bit 
        ciphertext value.

     2. Expand the key, so that words K[0], ..., K[63] become
        defined.

     3. Initialize j to 63.

     4. Perform five r-mixing rounds.

     5. Perform one r-mashing round.

     6. Perform six r-mixing rounds.

     7. Perform one r-mashing round.

     8. Perform five r-mixing rounds.


5. Test vectors

Test vectors for encryption with RC2 are provided below. 
All quantities are given in hexadecimal notation.

Key length (bytes) = 8
Effective key length (bits) = 63
Key = 00000000 00000000
Plaintext = 00000000 00000000
Ciphertext = ebb773f9 93278eff

Key length (bytes) = 8
Effective key length (bits) = 64
Key = ffffffff ffffffff
Plaintext = ffffffff ffffffff
Ciphertext = 278b27e4 2e2f0d49

Key length (bytes) = 8
Effective key length (bits) = 64
Key = 30000000 00000000
Plaintext = 10000000 00000001
Ciphertext = 30649edf 9be7d2c2

Key length (bytes) = 1
Effective key length (bits) = 64
Key = 88
Plaintext = 00000000 00000000
Ciphertext = 61a8a244 adacccf0

Key length (bytes) = 7
Effective key length (bits) = 64
Key = 88bca90e 90875a
Plaintext = 00000000 00000000
Ciphertext = 6ccf4308 974c267f

Key length (bytes) = 16
Effective key length (bits) = 64
Key = 88bca90e 90875a7f 0f79c384 627bafb2
Plaintext = 00000000 00000000
Ciphertext = 1a807d27 2bbe5db1

Key length (bytes) = 16
Effective key length (bits) = 128
Key = 88bca90e 90875a7f 0f79c384 627bafb2
Plaintext = 00000000 00000000
Ciphertext = 2269552a b0f85ca6

Key length (bytes) = 33
Effective key length (bits) = 129
Key = 88bca90e 90875a7f 0f79c384 627bafb2 16f80a6f 85920584 
      c42fceb0 be255daf 1e
Plaintext = 00000000 00000000
Ciphertext = 5b78d3a4 3dfff1f1


6. RC2 Algorithm Object Identifier


The Object Identifier for RC2 in cipher block chaining mode is

rc2CBC OBJECT IDENTIFIER
  ::= {iso(1) member-body(2) US(840) rsadsi(113549)
       encryptionAlgorithm(3) 2}

RC2-CBC takes parameters

RC2-CBCParameter ::= CHOICE {
  iv IV,
  params SEQUENCE {
    version RC2Version,
    iv IV
  }
}

where

IV ::= OCTET STRING -- 8 octets
RC2Version ::= INTEGER -- 1-1024

RC2 in CBC mode has two parameters: an 8-byte initialization 
vector (IV) and a version number in the range 1-1024 which 
specifies in a roundabout manner the number of effective key bits 
to be used for the RC2 encryption/decryption.

The correspondence between effective key bits and version number 
is as follows:

1. If the number EKB of effective key bits is in the range 1-255, 
   then the version number is given by Table[EKB], where the 
   256-byte translation table Table[] is specified below.  
   Table[] specifies a permutation on the numbers 0-255; note 
   that it is not the same table that appears in the key 
   expansion phase of RC2.

2. If the number EKB of effective key bits is in the range 
   256-1024, then the version number is simply EKB.

   The default number of effective key bits for RC2 is 32.  
   If RC2-CBC is being performed with 32 effective key bits, the 
   parameters should be supplied as a simple IV, rather than as a 
   SEQUENCE containing a version and an IV.


     0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  a  b  c  d  e  f

00: bd 56 ea f2 a2 f1 ac 2a b0 93 d1 9c 1b 33 fd d0
10: 30 04 b6 dc 7d df 32 4b f7 cb 45 9b 31 bb 21 5a
20: 41 9f e1 d9 4a 4d 9e da a0 68 2c c3 27 5f 80 36
30: 3e ee fb 95 1a fe ce a8 34 a9 13 f0 a6 3f d8 0c
40: 78 24 af 23 52 c1 67 17 f5 66 90 e7 e8 07 b8 60
50: 48 e6 1e 53 f3 92 a4 72 8c 08 15 6e 86 00 84 fa
60: f4 7f 8a 42 19 f6 db cd 14 8d 50 12 ba 3c 06 4e
70: ec b3 35 11 a1 88 8e 2b 94 99 b7 71 74 d3 e4 bf
80: 3a de 96 0e bc 0a ed 77 fc 37 6b 03 79 89 62 c6
90: d7 c0 d2 7c 6a 8b 22 a3 5b 05 5d 02 75 d5 61 e3
a0: 18 8f 55 51 ad 1f 0b 5e 85 e5 c2 57 63 ca 3d 6c
b0: b4 c5 cc 70 b2 91 59 0d 47 20 c8 4f 58 e0 01 e2
c0: 16 38 c4 6f 3b 0f 65 46 be 7e 2d 7b 82 f9 40 b5
d0: 1d 73 f8 eb 26 c7 87 97 25 54 b1 28 aa 98 9d a5
e0: 64 6d 7a d4 10 81 44 ef 49 d6 ae 2e dd 76 5c 2f
f0: a7 1c c9 09 69 9a 83 cf 29 39 b9 e9 4c ff 43 ab

A. Intellectual Property Notice

RC2 is a registered trademark of RSA Data Security, Inc. RSA's
copyrighted RC2 software is available under license from RSA
Data Security, Inc.


B. Author's Address

Ron Rivest
RSA Laboratories
100 Marine Parkway, #500      
Redwood City, CA  94065  USA  
(650) 595-7703
rsa-labs at rsa.com









From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 22:04:29 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:29 +0800
Subject: Federal govt. & Science - Const. limits
Message-ID: <199801130632.AAA25882@einstein.ssz.com>



Congress has *no* authority to ban *any* scientific research. In fact they
are specificaly enjoined to *promote* it.


Section 8.  The Congress shall have Power... 

[text deleted]

	To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing 
for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their 
respective Writings and Discoveries; 

[remainder deleted]

 
				ARTICLE IX. 
 
	The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall 
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
 
 
 
				ARTICLE X. 
 
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, 
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, 
or to the people. 
 


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 22:08:43 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:08:43 +0800
Subject: Congress' *real* job...
Message-ID: <199801130636.AAA25986@einstein.ssz.com>



Congress' real job should not be passing laws providing funding, prohibiting
activities, etc. It *should* be in creating and passing Constitutional
amendments per the 10th that re-define the responsibilities and duties of
the federal government within the changing millieu of the current society.
This way the people via their state representatives have a much closer input
into what the feds are actualy enpowered to do and to who.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Jan 12 22:31:19 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:31:19 +0800
Subject: MS presents technical defence [CNN]
Message-ID: <199801130659.AAA26115@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

>                 MICROSOFT TO PRESENT LENGTHY TECHNICAL DEFENSE
>                                        
>      graphic January 12, 1998
>      Web posted at: 11:14 p.m. EST (0414 GMT)
>      
>      WASHINGTON (AP) -- Microsoft Corp., attempting to fend off contempt
>      of court charges, plans to make a detailed defense in court that its
>      Internet Explorer software is interwoven with its popular Windows 95
>      program and the two can't be separated without debilitating the
>      Windows program.
>      
>      Attorneys for Microsoft and the Justice Department are scheduled to
>      face off in federal court again Tuesday in the latest chapter of the
>      bitter antitrust lawsuit. The Justice Department has asked U.S.
>      District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson to find Microsoft in contempt
>      of his December 11 order that it separate its Internet browser
>      software from Windows.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make       |
   |      violent revolution inevitable.                                |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                          John F. Kennedy           |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From cww7595 at email.msn.com  Tue Jan 13 14:53:01 1998
From: cww7595 at email.msn.com (CLAUD W WELCH)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:53:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unsolved billing problem
Message-ID: <06a0d1013010d18UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>


I cancelled my membership prior to the end of two days. i would like a
refund.









From ryan at michonline.com  Mon Jan 12 23:11:42 1998
From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:11:42 +0800
Subject: Feds to Idaho: Kiss Our Butts
In-Reply-To: <199801130255.UAA21084@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 



On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Eric Cordian wrote:

> 
> The manslaughter case against Ruby Ridge shooter Lon Horiuchi was
> effectively neutered today when a federal judge acquiesed to demands
> by Justice Department lawyers and moved the case out of Idaho's
> jurisdiction and into federal court.  This means that Horiuchi will be
> tried in federal court in front of a federal jury on state
> manslaughter charges, and not in front of a jury from Idaho's Boundary
> County, where the shooting took place.

I thought the people in our governmnet didn't really think things through
before...  Now I know they don't even think.  

>From a purely pragmatic point of view, they should have realized that only
a trial without any hint of federal interference had any hope of reducing
the growing distrist of government.  Even though the whole Ruby Ridge
incident stinks, you'd think they'd at least have the brains to do proper
damage control.

Though, a conviction would certainly shock this country a little bit,
wouldn't it?


Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0


Welcome to Trans World Specials for
 January 13, 1998.  All tickets must be
 purchased by January 16, 1998.  Fares
 are valid for travel originating
 1/17/98 and returning 1/19/98 or
 1/20/98.  
 
 We have some great fares to great cities
 for you again this week.  Call right away
 and take advantage.  Have you read about
 our new Trans World First service?  Read
 about it at http://www.twa.com
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials.
 
 
 Roundtrip Fare:		To/From:
 
 $69			St. Louis (STL) / Nashville (BNA)
 $69			Washington, DC (National) / New York (JFK) *
 			
 			* TWA Flights only. Trans World Express excluded
 
 
 $79			Detroit (DTW) / New York (JFK)  nonstop only
 
 
 $99			Chicago (ORD) / New York (JFK)  nonstop only
 $99			St. Louis (STL) / Atlanta (ATL)
 $99			St. Louis (STL) / Washington, DC (National only)
 
 
 $129			Cedar Rapids (CID) / Atlanta (ATL)
 $129			Hartford (BDL) / Houston (HOU)
 $129			Lincoln (LNK) / Atlanta (ATL)
 $129			Nashville (BNA) / Salt Lake City (SLC)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Hartford (BDL)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Houston (HOU)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / New York (LGA)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Norfolk (ORF)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 $129			Colorado Springs (COS) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 $129			San Antonio (SAT) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 
 
 $159			Boston (BOS) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			Hartford (BDL) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			Nashville (BNA) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $159			Nashville (BNA) / Portland, OR (PDX)
 $159			Nashville (BNA) / San Jose, CA (SJC)
 $159			New York (LGA) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			Norfolk (ORF) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			St. Louis (STL) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $159			St. Louis (STL) / Portland, OR (PDX)
 $159			Washington, DC (National) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 
 
 $179			Boston (BOS) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $179			Hartford (BDL) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $179			Los Angeles (LAX) / New York (JFK)  nonstop only
 $179			New York (JFK) / Las Vegas (LAS)  nonstop only
 $179			Norfolk (ORF) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $179			Ontario, CA (ONT) / New York (LGA)
 $179			Ontario, CA (ONT) / Washington, DC (DCA)
 $179			Ontario, CA (ONT) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 
 ** Fares are valid for U.S. origins only.  Fares for Canadian origins may differ.
 All travel is valid on TWA only.
 
 Call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and book your Trans World Special now.
 
 
 ******************************GETAWAY VACATIONS*************************
 
 Puerto Vallarta -- Sheraton Buganvilias includes:
 
 - roundtrip airfare
 - 2 nights hotel accommodations at the deluxe Sheraton Buganvilias Resort
 - airport transfers
 - 2000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual mileage earned
 - only $399 from St. Louis
 - $459 from Chicago, Des Moines, Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Little Rock,
   Moline, Nashville, and Omaha.
 - $519 from Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Milwaukee and Minneapolis
 
 
 London Theatre Week includes:
 
 - roundtrip airfare
 - Continental buffet breakfast
 - half-day sightseeing tour
 - tickets for 2 plays or musicals
 - choice of first-class or superior first-class hotel
 - bonus 5000 FFB miles in addition to actual mileage earned
 - valid for 2/6/98 or 2/27/98 departures
 - only $1099 from Chicago, Cincinnati, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis and St. Louis
 - $1179	from Austin, Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Oklahoma City
    San Antonio, and Tulsa
 
 For reservations call 1-800-GETAWAY (438-2929) today !	
 
 
 *********************************ALAMO**********************************
 
 Alamo offers these low rates for an economy car valid 1/17/98 - 1/19/98
 
 $16.99		Houston, San Antonio
 
 $17.99		Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, St. Louis, Toronto
 
 $18.99		Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, Portland (OR)
 
 $20.99		Atlanta, Hartford, Norfolk, Washington-DC, 
 
 $21.99		Los Angeles
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT and
 ID # 443833. For online reservations access http://www.goalamo.com
 
 
 ********************************Hilton Hotels & Resorts*****************
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers these low rates valid the nights of 1/17/98-1/19/98
 
 
 $55	Washington National Airport Hilton, Arlington, VA (free airport shuttle, 	
         only 5 minutes from the sites of DC)
 
 $65	Galveston Island Hilton Resort, TX ( located directly on the beach; hotel
         offers tennis and outdoor pool)
 
 $69	Los Angeles Airport Hilton & Towers (free airport shuttle, fitness center, 
         outdoor pool and 12 restaurants)
 
 $79	Colonial Hilton & Resort, MA ( located 12 miles north of downtown Boston)
 
 $87	Detroit Metro Airport Hilton Suites ( suite accommodations, full american 
         breakfast and beverage reception)
 
 $88	O'Hare Hilton, Chicago ( connected to O'Hare via walkway, 18 miles from 
 	downtown)
 
 $99	The Capitol Hilton, Washington-DC ( in the heart of DC, 2 blocks from the
         White House)
 
 $131	Alanta Hilton & Towers ( pool, fitness center, tennis courts and easy 
         access to area attractions)
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask for Hilton Value Rates.
 Visit Hilton at http://www.hilton.com
 
 
 ***********************************TERMS & CONDITIONS*******************
 
 
 Airfare Terms and Conditions: 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are round trip, nonrefundable and are subject to change. 
 Changes to itinerary are not permitted. Fares do not include Passenger Facility Charges of 
 up to $12 depending on itinerary. Must use E-Ticketing and credit card is the only form of 
 payment accepted. Offer is not available in conjunction with any other discount, coupon or 
 promotional offer. Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights or days of the
 week. Tickets must be purchased at time of booking and no later than 1/16/98. Standby 
 passengers not allowed. Valid for outbound travel on Saturday (1/17) and return Monday 
 (1/19) or Tuesday (1/20). Travel is effective 1/17/98 with all travel to be completed by 
 1/20/98. Minimum stay is 2 days. Maximum stay is 3 days. Travel to/from Canada a $6 US 
 departure tax is additional. 
 
 Getaway Conditions: 
 ALL PACKAGES: All packages include round-trip economy airfare. Price is per person based on 
 double occupancy and is subject to change. Availability, restrictions, surcharges, blackouts
 and cancellation penalties apply. No other discounts or promotions are valid in conjunction 
 with these packages. DOMESTIC CONDITIONS: Depart for Puerto Vallarta Tuesday or Sunday and 
 return Thursday or Tuesday. Travel valid for departures 2/3, 2/8 or 2/10 and return 2/5,
 2/10, or 2/12 LIMITED AVAILABLITY. Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US 
 departure, agricultural, customs & immigration tax of up to $54 per person. Full payment due
 by 1/19/98. 
 
 INTERNATIONAL CONDITIONS: Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights. Price 
 does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US departure/arrival, agriculture and security
 fees from point of origin of travel up to approximately $85 per person. Price includes 
 standard room - superior rooms have an additional charge. Full payment is required by 
 1/16/98.  
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), registrations 
 fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if any, are extra. Optional CDW, 
 liability insurance, fuel, additional driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are
 extra. Rates higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for rentals commencing on Saturday
 and ending by 11:59 PM on Tuesday. Rates only valid during week in which they are published 
 via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the specific week in which
 they are published via the TWA Hot Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site.
 Limited availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, 
 first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are not guaranteed and will
 be confirmed at time of reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to 
 change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out subject
 to availability. No extra charge for children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' 
 room; total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations and other applicable 
 laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not include any other fees or charges, 
 including without limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change
 without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot be
 combined with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, promotional
 offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton
 Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms of other 
 offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus or any 
 other problem or damage related to use of the program or its offers. 
 
 
 For reservations call 1-800-221-2000 (domestic) or 1-800-892-4141 (international) 
 or call your travel agent and ask for TWA's special Internet fares. 
 
 
 
 
 				
 
 
 		
 					
 
 
 
 







From frantz at netcom.com  Mon Jan 12 23:56:07 1998
From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:56:07 +0800
Subject: autonomous agents
In-Reply-To: <199801121925.TAA00539@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 



At 11:25 AM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote:
>For agents to be able to achieve anything useful, the Java sandbox
>model has to be relaxed to allow the agent to make network connections
>to other than the machine the code was served from.  Java has support
>for this in that signed applications are allowed to make external
>network connections.

The Java security model proposed for version 1.2 (now in some form of beta)
supports this kind of distinction.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org  Tue Jan 13 00:12:28 1998
From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:12:28 +0800
Subject: Congratulations!
In-Reply-To: <19980113000743.988.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: 





On 13 Jan 1998 nobody at nsm.htp.org wrote:

> >To: Anonymous 
> >cc: cypherpunks at toad.com, abuse at MCI.Com,   >hostmaster at cyber-dyne.com
> 
> Ha, ha, ha! who CC'd the "Congratulations" thread to those
> addresses??  (would they know how to smurf d00d?)
> 
> This list gets fucking better!
> 
> 


http://www.security.mci.net/dostracker/index.html

;)






From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Tue Jan 13 01:14:41 1998
From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:14:41 +0800
Subject: Cute
In-Reply-To: <199801091520.QAA29876@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 



On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote:

I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.

> Tim May is cute and cuddly!
> 
>          (_) _____ (_)
>             /O   O\   Timmy C[uddly] May
>            !   I   !
>            ! \___/ !
>             \_____/
> 
> 
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graham-John Bullers                      Moderator of alt.2600.moderated   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    email :  : 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Tue Jan 13 01:33:04 1998
From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:33:04 +0800
Subject: Accounts payable
In-Reply-To: <199801090607.HAA01799@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 



On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote:

I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.

> Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug.
> 
>          (_) _____ (_)
>             /O   O\   Timmy C[rook] May
>            !   I   !
>            ! \___/ !
>             \_____/
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graham-John Bullers                      Moderator of alt.2600.moderated   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    email :  : 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Tue Jan 13 01:40:57 1998
From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:40:57 +0800
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199801111151.DAA14980@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Mix wrote:

I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.

> Timmy C. Maypole is a pimply dweeb sitting at a computer 
> chortling at his own imagined cleverness.
> 
>               (/T\)  _____                     (/V\)
>               (-,-) ()====) .  +  .   .    +   ('.') Timmy C. Maypole
>               \(o)/   -|3 .     .   .       .  J\~/L
>              /='
>         ,OOO//|   |    .+   .   <%%%%%%%%%%%O >|<  \ooo,
>         O:O:O LLLLL + .  .   .     .     I  .  //|\\ o:0:o
>         \OOO/ || ||     .  .   .      +     .  ~|~|~ \ooo/
>              C_) (_D                           _I I_
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graham-John Bullers                      Moderator of alt.2600.moderated   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    email :  : 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk  Tue Jan 13 03:45:45 1998
From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:45:45 +0800
Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents
Message-ID: 



Adam Back:

> If the participant in the CPU resource market is not expected to be
> able to vet all source code he runs, this gives the would be eternity
> operator a chance to distribute his risk.

It's even better than this - your PC becomes a common carrier and you
are no longer liable :-)

If this doesn't happen, then the advocates of Java need a whole new
security infrastructure to assure users that the applets they download
aren't defamatory, pornographic, seditious or in breach of copyright!

Tim May:

> Another science fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, popularized "data havens"

At one time, Malta was thinking seriously about becoming just such a
data haven, and I expect one will appear sooner or later. After all,
what's left of the British Empire is funded by money laundering and
tax evasion - pardon me, Sir Humphrey, `offshore financial services'. 
Once the online world becomes a significant part of the global
economy, small countries that wish to achieve the high living
standards of Bermuda, Gibraltar and Jersey will be able to get there
by cashing in on `offshore data services'.

Countries like Tonga already sell domain names, but a full offshore
data service would need some way of resisting pressure from the EU and
the US government. Most of the tax havens do this by being under a
colonial umbrella. Is there an alternative? Can we create virtual
colonies in cyberspace? Can we set up a gateway to Eternity in some
country like Liberia or Somalia, which is too dangerous even for the
US Marines? Or do we have to cut a deal with Sir Humphrey?

Hiding stuff inside usenet is actually a bit like hiding behind the
skirts of Empire, isn't it? The same goes for hiding stuff on open
access web sites, or in spam. 

Given the rate at which spam is growing these days, maybe that's where
to put it. If the only way for Authority to cut mortals off from
Eternity was to pass effective laws against spam, and the only way to
stop spam was to have a global non-escrowed public key infrastructure
so that all mortals could be strongly authenticated, then ...

Ross






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Tue Jan 13 04:04:13 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:04:13 +0800
Subject: [ADMINISTRATIVIUM] Firewalls
Message-ID: <199801131153.MAA07441@basement.replay.com>



Timmy C. Mayonnaise's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated 
cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which 
it is cross-ruminated.

      ,,,
 -ooO(o o)Ooo- Timmy C. Mayonnaise
      (_)






From rdl at mit.edu  Tue Jan 13 04:50:17 1998
From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:50:17 +0800
Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801131244.HAA22857@the-great-machine.mit.edu>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Ross Anderson:
> Adam Back:
> 
> > If the participant in the CPU resource market is not expected to be
> > able to vet all source code he runs, this gives the would be eternity
> > operator a chance to distribute his risk.
> 
> It's even better than this - your PC becomes a common carrier and you
> are no longer liable :-)

You would be expected to comply with efforts to stamp out illegal activities.
Laws may be passed (e.g. CDA) which would require technical measures to
prevent illegal activity even if you are a common carrier.  Legal
protection is fundamentally weak if the government does not like you. 

Worst case, a government or other criminal organization could employ
technical twrrorist tactics to take out the entire eternity network, if
possible, even if no illegal activity is taking place.

I agree that building a sufficiently large "eternity network" such that
the 1% or so of traffic which is illegal is impossible to censor without
affecting the other 99%.  I believe the web or the internet as a whole
are now large and important enough to Joe Sixpack that shutting them off
to stop illegal activity is infeasible -- I do not agree that USENET
is.  I think 2 weeks of press in the US about "USENET, the network used
by kiddie porn photographers to trade photos, must be shut down" would be
enough to shut usenet in the US down.

> Tim May:
> 
> > Another science fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, popularized "data havens"
> 

> data service would need some way of resisting pressure from the EU and
> the US government. Most of the tax havens do this by being under a
> colonial umbrella. Is there an alternative? Can we create virtual
> colonies in cyberspace? Can we set up a gateway to Eternity in some
> country like Liberia or Somalia, which is too dangerous even for the
> US Marines? Or do we have to cut a deal with Sir Humphrey?

I believe that the US+UK together could shut off nearly all communications
into or out of Libya or Somalia or Liberia or any other small country.  They
already put a fair amount of pressure on the Seychelles (my current
pick for favorite portential datahaven country outside of colonial reach),
and money laundering can survive with less of an established communications
infrastructure than high speed internet communications, at least from
what I know of money laundering.  A "datahaven country" would have
to be immune to such tactics -- either having its own strong military 
(China as datahaven) to defend its national interests, political
connections (Israel?), or enough trade with the US that shutting off
data commo would be impossible for economic reasons (Singapore?).  

If it comes to actual violence in meatspace, I don't think there's anything
a major power couldn't do to a small cypherpunk project.  One approach
would be quickly allying with interests capable of defending themselves 
against such threats -- organized crime, money laundering, arms trading,
etc. -- but even they for the most part could not stand up to a concerted
attack by a government -- they exist through secrecy and connections.  
> 
> Given the rate at which spam is growing these days, maybe that's where
> to put it. If the only way for Authority to cut mortals off from
> Eternity was to pass effective laws against spam, and the only way to
> stop spam was to have a global non-escrowed public key infrastructure
> so that all mortals could be strongly authenticated, then ...

My bet is on the web.  Billing "Eternity DDS" as a sophisticated fault
tolerant web server, which has market-based protocols for exchanging
data futures.  And also designing the protocol to support "financial
services" conducted through eternity dds futures trading.  Get enough
kosher data into it and you can protect yourself from TA, from 
wholesale shutting down of the system, etc.

The same techniques which protect you from a government shutting down
the service protect you from an enemy of someone storing data
in the system shutting down the system.

The single best thing I've seen recently was Ross Anderson's comment
about 90% of cypherpunks work being on secrecy/etc. and 90% of
the commercial IT money going to fault tolerance.  I believe, at least
for an eternity service, one provides the other, and that's
how it can be "sold" to enough users to make it safe for unpopular
users.

(Steganographic File System sounds very interesting -- will the paper
be available online?)
- -- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl at mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		



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From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Jan 13 06:27:33 1998
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:27:33 +0800
Subject: Micromoney CryptoMango?
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:52:16 -0500
From: rah-web 
Reply-To: rah at shipwright.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rah-web 
Subject: Micromoney CryptoMango?

http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/metcalfe/metcalfe.htm

[Image] [StorageTek Click Here.]

[| Navigational map -- for text only please go to the bottom of the page |]
[|Opinions|]

 [From the Ether]

       January 12, 1998

       Mango `pooling' is the biggest idea we've seen since network
       computers

       Mango, in Westborough, Mass., is not your average software
       start-up. In 30 months the company has raised $30 million.
       Its first product, Medley97, has shipped, transparently
       "pooling" workgroup storage.

       And someone at http://www.mango.com really knows the
       difference between features and benefits.

       But it's not the benefits of Medley97 pooling that interest
       me. What's interesting are the features and long-term
       potential of Mango's underlying distributed virtual memory
       (DVM). Mango's pooling DVM is the biggest software idea
       since network computers -- perhaps since client/server --
       and Microsoft had better watch out.

       According to Mango, Medley97 offers transparent networking
       that's easy to use, fast, and reliable (not to mention
       secure and high fiber).

       Windows users working together on a LAN can share files in a
       pool of their combined disk storage. Every pooled PC is both
       a client and server.

       Go ahead and drop Medley97 into any PC you want to pool.
       Medley97 installs, checks configuration, and updates
       required Windows networking software. The product adds the
       PC's storage to the pool, giving you a shared, fast, and
       reliable network drive, M:/, which is available on all
       pooled PCs. For this you pay Mango less than $125 each for
       up to 25 PCs.

       Mango CEO Steve Frank was technology chief at Kendall Square
       Research (KSR), the ill-fated parallel processing company
       near MIT that was not Thinking Machines. Frank says KSR
       taught him how dishonesty doesn't work but parallelism does.

       Unlike KSR's, Mango's parallelism just has to be on volume
       platforms, such as Ethernet, TCP/IP, and Windows.

       Hence Mango.

       Underlying Medley97 are DVM processes cooperating through a
       TCP/IP Ethernet on pooled Windows PCs. The processes manage
       a 128-bit object space that copies virtual 4KB pages up,
       down, and around a distributed memory hierarchy.

       Medley97 offers ease of use by hiding continuously,
       automatically, and adaptively behind your familiar Windows
       user interface -- just below the file system APIs and above
       physical disk pages.

       Medley97 offers performance by moving files through the
       Ethernet from disk to disk and from disk to memory, closer
       to where the pages are used most.

       And Medley97 offers reliability by keeping synchronized
       backup copies of file pages on different pooled PCs.

       Mango's DVM generalizes backup and caching. Pages are copied
       for nonstop operation. Copies are moved closer to where they
       are used. Frank says it is often faster to access a page
       through Ethernet from a pooled PC's semiconductor memory
       than to access it from a local disk.

       Transaction logs are kept on all pooled PCs. The DVM detects
       when a PC drops out of a pool and copies any page that
       thereby lacks sufficient backups. When a PC rejoins a pool,
       transaction logs ensure it accesses updated pages. The
       garbage collection of deleted pages runs in the background.

       Noticing that Medley97 is available for up to 25 PCs, I
       asked the perennial parallelism question, "Does it scale?"

       Frank's answer: Yes. Medley97 is limited to 25 PCs only
       because that's all Mango has so far found time to test. With
       each PC adding resources, pool performance is "superlinear"
       as far as the eye can see.

       Well, this makes pooling the next in a long list of major
       computing paradigms: batch mainframes, interactive
       minicomputers, stand-alone PCs, PC LANs, client/server,
       peer-to-peer, thin-client, server clustering, and now peer
       clustering or pooling.

       According to Frank, Medley next needs to go from Ethernet to
       Internet. To support many pools. To add change control and
       archiving.

       Medley also needs to go beyond Windows. To pool processing
       as well as storage.

       So Medley, now written in C++, needs what else? Java.

       You can log into a Medley pool from anywhere and have your
       workgroup files available on the M:/ drive. With Java you
       could pool non-Wintel network computers.

       Well, if pooling scales, the whole World Wide Web should be
       one big pool. Mango's DVM generalizes the caching now done
       ad hoc all over the Web -- on server disks, in clusters, in
       caching farms, in proxy servers, in browsers, and in the
       file systems of PCs.

       Add Java network computers and before Frank knows it, Mango
       will be ripe for purchase if not integration by Microsoft.

                      ------------------------------

                                 [Image]

       Technology pundit Bob Metcalfe invented Ethernet in 1973 and
          founded 3Com in 1979, and today he specializes in the
             Internet. Send e-mail to Metcalfe at infoworld.com.

                    Missed a column? Go back for more.

                                 [Image]

                      ------------------------------

               Copyright � 1998 InfoWorld Media Group Inc.

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--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 







From kouqi32 at mci.net  Tue Jan 13 22:30:05 1998
From: kouqi32 at mci.net (kouqi32 at mci.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:30:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: StockAlert News: UNFC expects increase of $50M in assets
Message-ID: <199801143911CAA36883@post.com.au>



REMINGTON-HALL CAPITALIZES ON RESURGENT REAL ESTATE MARKET Company expects to acquire $50 million in assets by mid-1998

DALLAS -- UNFC ), a diversified real estate investment firm formerly known as Universal Fuels Company, is quietly acquiring over $50 million in previously undervalued, undercapitalized or mismanaged commercial properties and making this new major player one of the best moderate-risk real estate investments in 1998. Founded in 1975 as Universal Fuels, the company provided uranium to the world as an alternative fuel, but as uranium became less used as a nuclear fuel source than other more economical and useful materials, Universal Fuels' stock declined almost to extinction over several years. Less than a year ago the stock price was less than 1�. Four months ago officials from Camden-Townwest, a privately held real estate investment firm, approached Universal Fuels former management about converting Universal Fuels into a publicly traded real estate conglomerate. Camden-Townwest, founded in 1994, grew from $19,000 in cash to $3 million in assets in three years without seeking any outside capital. Since the change in management and corporate mission last October, U NFC has seen its stock value increase by over 800%. Remington-Hall is now making its move to increase assets at a tremendous rate. By mid-year management expects to acquire in excess of $50 Million in office buildings and multi-family properties at a significant discount to their market value. "We have been referred to as 'Cat Burglars of Real Estate'," said Douglas Fonteno, president & chief executive officer. "And that's a title we hope to keep." Larry Hood ,formerly Chief Operating Officer of Pizza Inn and Chief Financial Officer of Reliance Mortgage Company, is Remington-Hall's Chief Financial Offi cer, giving the new company immediate and substantial financial integrity. Wade Hyde, previously public relations and investor relations executive for Blockbuster Video and FoxMeyer Corporation, is Vice President of Marketing & Public Relations. Currently Remington-Hall is seeking to be listed on the Pacific Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq National Market. The company anticipates announcing over $10 million in newly acquired assets by the end of January. Name: Remington-Hall Capital Corporation ( formerly Universal Fuels) Symbol: Nasdaq: UNFC Mission: To aggressively acquire steeply undervalued real estate properties due to previous mismanagement or undercapitalization. Management: Senior executives with diverse experiences, including: Fortune 500 corporations, leading stock brokerage firms, real estate companies and national marketing. Goals: To increase assets to $10M by January 98 and $50M by mid-year Address: 1401 Elm St., Ste. 1818, Dallas, TX 75202-2925 Phone: (214) 749-4600 FAX: (214) 749-4608 Internet: www.remington-hall.com E-Mail: InvestorRelations at remington-hall ll.com Quote Yahoo! Remington-Hall

Forwarded message: > By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID > Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Census Director Martha Farnsworth Riche, who > battled Republican lawmakers over counting methods for 2000, is > quitting. > > Riche said Monday she would leave office Jan. 30. > > She has been involved in a lengthy dispute with members of Congress > over Census 2000, largely over how to count the many people who might > be missed by regular methods. > > The fight focused on a practice called sampling, in which the bureau > would determine the number and characteristics of people it cannot > reach based on the people it can. > > Though the practice was endorsed by the National Science Foundation > and statistical groups, Republicans in Congress have opposed it, > concerned that the result would be more people counted in largely > Democratic large cities. > > The results will be used to redistribute House seats to the states. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 06:35:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:35:48 +0800 Subject: 19 European countries ban human cloning [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131501.JAA27115@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > 19 EUROPEAN NATIONS SIGN BAN ON HUMAN CLONING > > Britain, Germany not among signatories > > January 12, 1998 > Web posted at: 8:00 p.m. EST (0100 GMT) > > PARIS (CNN) -- Nineteen European nations on Monday signed an > agreement to prohibit the cloning of humans. > > Representatives from 19 members of the Council of Europe signed a > protocol that would commit their countries to ban by law "any > intervention seeking to create human beings genetically identical to > another human being, whether living or dead." It rules out any > exception to the ban, even in the case of a completely sterile > couple. > > "At a time when occasional voices are being raised to assert the > acceptability of human cloning and even to put it more rapidly into > practice, it is important for Europe solemnly to declare its > determination to defend human dignity against the abuse of > scientific techniques," Council Secretary-General Daniel Tarchys > said. > > The text, which is to become a part of the European Convention on > Human Rights and Biomedicine, would permit cloning of cells for > research purposes.CNN's Margaret Lowrie reports > icon 2 min. 3 sec VXtreme video > > The accord will become binding on the signatories as soon as it has > been ratified in five states. > > Countries signing are: Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, > Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Moldova, Norway, Portugal, > Romania, San Marino, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Macedonia and Turkey. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 07:25:15 1998 From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:25:15 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: Ryan Lackey: > A "datahaven country" would have > to be immune to such tactics -- either having its own strong military > (China as datahaven) to defend its national interests, political > connections (Israel?), or enough trade with the US that shutting off > data commo would be impossible for economic reasons (Singapore?). A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to index controversial matter. Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in Germany. If someone wants to curse and swear at the whole world at once, then there is this amazing new invention called hypertext ... Ross From thomas.womack at merton.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 07:33:54 1998 From: thomas.womack at merton.oxford.ac.uk (Thomas Womack) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:33:54 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Ross Anderson wrote: >A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to >index controversial matter. > >Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, >the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in >America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in >Germany. I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; national-security stuff can be handled provided you've got a complete list of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. Tom From rdl at mit.edu Tue Jan 13 07:56:18 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:56:18 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <199801131551.KAA23584@the-great-machine.mit.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tom Womack wrote: > Ross Anderson wrote: > > >A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to > >index controversial matter. > > > >Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, > >the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in > >America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in > >Germany. > > I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; > national-security stuff can be handled provided you've got a complete list > of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort > of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. > > Tom > Additionally, you could have the Fahd family annoyed by this stuff in Israel, post the names of all the Mossad agents to the same server, and have the server have an accident. You would need to go beyond "indexing" to "enforcement" if you wanted to make it safe for people to run open datahavens. True, you could still do this regulatory arbitrage thing by having datahaven owners look at the data, see if they can store it, then price it based on how safe it would be for them to store it -- that's the kind of thing a market-based Eternity service would include (as well as people with different levels of risk tolerance being willing to take more dangerous data, ephermeal servers, etc.). A market-based system can overcome just about everything -- it will take into account the regulatory climate, political connections, size of the site, etc. The problem is that if you encrypt everything such that server operators don't know what it is, you're "selling them a bill of goods", so they don't really have the chance to correctly price their data. Plus, they have no way of knowing even if the data is unencrypted that your list of the sins of the prophet do not include a steganographically-encoded list of Mossad agents. You can't assume people in the system will "play fairly" unless there are market reasons for them to do so. Perhaps persistent identities for those committing files? Basically, in the age old contest between arms and armor, arms win every time. BTW, I don't really like the overly negative names for Eternity, like "inferno", or whatever. I like to think my data is *good* data, deserving of a better fate. Elysium, perhaps? Or just use "eternity" in place of "eternityspace" (a word I never should have used, since it means the same thing), as in "upload these files to eternity", "the collection of files currently stored in eternity", etc. Little danger of confusion with pedestrian meanings of the word eternity, too, I think, and there is no real reason to draw a distinction between eternity the location for documents and eternity the overall system for creating such a space. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLuNb6wefxtEUY69AQE/Xgf8C/y82HnErTwi5UniP6oIW/4nVnlxfGyM BJZeKPb7vwK8AOdzynI+6Mj5Acrr/Ojlo9OiaBzBavVAPqvA9VcEeKeB45erhQEQ SxXwKDQL2/EBxlIM/pJkmUuggg3/7HJ1UugO6qtKIq2cKgsdLZhqKlyWpxVSdEwa JN4eC3cz3iFeUUZmeDG0Rpk4YWcXDmeKP31l0EfU6SQ2uIiOAmlX7PLdRh6rgTIW 4GbyYZRPEuQRUJ3RAqIRFExMgEXvZ1CsYsvrolJCDxcF5sluZpOCM8WolGhwpCBj HI4Zl1QofMEOojoLhEZ4jV4/uTf9VrKisYSeEEGBewnm3DOAuu1PyA== =AvF+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 13 08:12:02 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:12:02 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801130612.AAA25763@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801131602.RAA06619@basement.replay.com> > > There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the > > activity. > > Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. > By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of > the results of that scientific research. This is a more significant difference than you let on: if the research is done abroad, it can be published here. To the extent that one can theorize without experimenting, that too can be done here. > Not at all. Equating swinging of ones fist in a empty field and swinging it > into somebodies nose and then taking that supposition as justification to > ban fist swinging *is* most certainly unconstitutional. Furthermore, robbery Congress has the power to choose whether to ban acts when the cause a harm (fists that connect to federal noses), or just to ban acts whether or not they cause harms (sending threats to government officials; broadcasting without a license on an unused frequency). Like it or not, there is no question that most of these bans -- including the cloning ban -- are constitutional under the commerce and other powers, the copyrights clause notwithstanding. PS. I killfiled this guy ages ago on the grounds of rudeness, general unpleasantness, and especially a complete and utter incomprehension about how the law in this country operates. It is as if someone once read some software company's publicity about how easy it is to operate their software and concluded they should therefore be able to write programs in any language. Since someone forwarded me this post, I'm replying to it, but I doubt I'll bother doing so in the future. I entered this thread because Tim May made some comments; I respect his writing and I think other people probably do too. As a result, it seemed important to offer some basic doctrine as a response. Note, again, that I'm not expressing a view on the MERITS of the legislation, just one law professor's view on whether courts would be likely to uphold it if it passes. A. Michael Froomkin � +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law � U. Miami School of Law � froomkin@ no spam please P.O. Box 248087 � http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/ Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA � It's warm here. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 08:45:21 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:45:21 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) Message-ID: <199801131712.LAA27579@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:02:13 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) > From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > > > Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. > > By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of > > the results of that scientific research. > > This is a more significant difference than you let on: if the research is > done abroad, it can be published here. To the extent that one can > theorize without experimenting, that too can be done here. I hope they forward the CNN piece on the European ban on cloning that is occuring as I type this. The bottem line is that saying it's ok to ban it here simply because you are sure somebody somewhere else will allow it is reprehensible and a complete abrogation of both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution. If it's ok to do it there, why isn't it ok to do it here? Smacks of a double standard or some sort of surreptitious conspiracy to control the technology to the benefit of a few. Perhaps the government has already done this research, at Seed's estimate of $100,000 per clone, god knows they already have the money, the equipment, and the people willing to do it. Tell me, once the other countries have banned it will you then argue that we should repeal our own ban and allow such research? > > Not at all. Equating swinging of ones fist in a empty field and swinging it > > into somebodies nose and then taking that supposition as justification to > > ban fist swinging *is* most certainly unconstitutional. Furthermore, robbery > > Congress has the power to choose whether to ban acts when the cause a harm > (fists that connect to federal noses), or just to ban acts whether or not > they cause harms (sending threats to government officials; broadcasting > without a license on an unused frequency). Bans on broadcasting without a license on an unused frequency was found unconstitutional - it seems nobody had *ever* raised the issue before. The interstate commerce clause was also raised and found to be potentialy irrelevant. Until a few years ago the threatening of anyone, even the killing of a president, was not a federal crime. Perhaps that original idea was that since we believe all people to be equal under the law the killing of a bum was no more heinous than killing of a president. One could even argue that such classifying laws as the protection of federal employees over and above a commen citizen are in fact against the equal treatment under the law for all citizens that this country is founded upon. > Like it or not, there is no > question that most of these bans -- including the cloning ban -- are > constitutional under the commerce and other powers, the copyrights clause > notwithstanding. It's 'interstate commerce', and it isn't the copyright clause per se but the clear and plain language regarding 'advancement'. Further the clause *specificaly* states that it is between states - by no stretch of the honest imagination can be be construed to include private functions inside the state boundary. Next you will be telling me I need a federal license to program because somebody might use my software ... Taking away peoples rights and choices is much ruder than anything you could claim I have ever been. Why not answer the points instead of crying about how I hurt your feelings because I won't play within the limited set of rules you want so that you can retain the advantages of that limited set and as a consequence not have to deal with the possible reality that your entire suppositional set is bogus. > unpleasantness, and especially a complete and utter incomprehension about > how the law in this country operates. I know how it operates, that is why it pisses me off. It operates under the authority of a document that prescribes in clear language how that system is supposed to operate and specificaly describes what those limits are, how to apply those limits to new events, and how to change those limits if they should be felt to be too restrictive or damaging. However, those who are entrusted with the operation believe that that self-same trust allows them to ignore their empowering charter. You seem unable to comprehend that perhaps the logic that has been used to justify many of these actions is not only unconstitutional but also in the long term detriment of the country. It's a pitty you're so close minded you are unable to expose your delicate sensibilities to open debate. It's a pity that your only defence is ad hominim attacks and concious exclusion of contrary arguments because of their emotional impact on yourself. Sir, the only thing I have left to say to you is: Yet, it moves. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 08:55:23 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:55:23 +0800 Subject: 1st sign of a closed mind... Message-ID: <199801131723.LAA27648@einstein.ssz.com> "I won't listen to that because ...." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 09:06:07 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:06:07 +0800 Subject: What it means to be in America... Message-ID: <199801131731.LAA27730@einstein.ssz.com> America's abundance was created not by public sacrifices to "the common good," but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America's industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages, and cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every scientific discovery or technological advance- and thus the whole country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of the way. - Ayn Rand In the United States the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved from the necessity of forming opinions of their own. - Alexis de Tocqueville ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 09:06:07 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:06:07 +0800 Subject: What is the Constitution? Message-ID: <199801131732.LAA27764@einstein.ssz.com> Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals- that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government- that it is not a charter _for_ government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection _against_ the government. - Ayn Rand ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 09:16:53 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:16:53 +0800 Subject: FTC ok's Intel buy of C&T [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131744.LAA27925@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > January 13, 1998: 10:56 a.m. ET > > NEW YORK (CNNfn) - The U.S. Federal Trade Commission said Tuesday it > would no longer try to hold up Intel Corp.'s $420 million acquisition > of Chips and Technologies Inc. > [INLINE] The FTC did say, however, that it would continue to > investigate the merger as part of its more extensive look into Intel's > operations. Earlier, the FTC had sought a preliminary injunction to > halt the merger. > [INLINE] The FTC was apparently concerned that Intel would gain an > even larger market share of the chip market with the acquisition of > Chips and Technologies, a leading laptop computer semiconductor firm. > [INLINE] The FTC has been eyeing Intel carefully because it believes > that Intel's strong chip business, estimated to control more than 80 > percent of the world's market, could raise antitrust concerns. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 09:21:30 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:21:30 +0800 Subject: Fed's train more technology workers? [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131743.LAA27853@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > By MICHELLE LOCKE > Associated Press Writer > > BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) -- America needs more computer workers -- a lot > more. > > That was the message from three Cabinet officials who unveiled > strategies Monday for finding more technology-literate workers as the > U.S. economy enters the information age. > > Their proposals ranged from spending more on education and training > grants to putting out a new message: It's hip to be high-tech. > > "American minds really created the information age economy and > American minds can continue to lead it if we nurture the immense > talent pool here at home," said Education Secretary Richard Riley. > > Or as Deputy Labor Secretary Kathryn O'Leary Higgins said with a > smile, "We're from the federal government and we're here to help." [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 10:19:42 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:19:42 +0800 Subject: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... Message-ID: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> Sir, Do you accept that the Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the land and therefore the ultimate legal authority within its borders? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 10:55:06 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:55:06 +0800 Subject: An offer to Dr. Froomkin... Message-ID: <199801131920.NAA28285@einstein.ssz.com> Sir, I can understand your emotional reaction to some of my wording, it is its specific intent to ellicit such a reaction. It's a measure of the readers maturity to be able to ignore the noise and focus on the issues. However, in this particular case this seems to be working in the negative respecting my goals. So, in order to open channels of dicussion I would like to make an offer. I will desist on the use of these psychological warfare techniques and their destabalizing effects on your emotional state *if* you will return to an open discussion without resort to ad hominim and straw man arguments and address the issues directly and in plain language without resort to legalistic verbal camouflage to skirt the main points. Thank you for your time in considering this offer. Sincerely, ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 11:09:53 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 03:09:53 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801130612.AAA25763@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 8:02 AM -0800 1/13/98, Michael Froomkin (as Anonymous) wrote: >> > There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the >> > activity. >> >> Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. >> By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of >> the results of that scientific research. > >This is a more significant difference than you let on: if the research is >done abroad, it can be published here. To the extent that one can >theorize without experimenting, that too can be done here. I don't believe we know yet what the proposal is. I've heard some versions which allow any and all research up to, but not including, the actual production of a viable human clone. And I've heard versions being proposed which would push the ban further back down the line. As I have made clear, I don't believe "banning research" which is neither "commerce between the states" nor a direct harm to others (as the "robbery" example Michael Froomkin used earlier as a parallel is), is supported by the Constitution. Just as I don't believe "banning activity X" is generally supported unless there is some constitutional mention. To pick some examples, banning research into UFOs would not be supported. Banning jumping on pogo sticks would not be supported. Banning possession of wool sweaters would not be supported. (I could go on, but won't. There are degrees of what "unconstitutional" means. I take a civil libertarian, even libertarian (of course), view about what is an acceptable role for government and law. We have debated this many times, and I have no time to debate Michael again on this issue. Suffice it to say I think it completely inappropriate, and "unconstitutional," for government to ban research.) >Congress has the power to choose whether to ban acts when the cause a harm >(fists that connect to federal noses), or just to ban acts whether or not >they cause harms (sending threats to government officials; broadcasting >without a license on an unused frequency). Like it or not, there is no >question that most of these bans -- including the cloning ban -- are >constitutional under the commerce and other powers, the copyrights clause >notwithstanding. This broad use of the commerce clause could of course be applied to ban almost any activity. I don't think the Founders had this in mind, but, again, I have a civil libertarian view of such things. If the commerce clause is claimed to apply to cloning--how, by the way?--then it can apply to mathematical research, linguistics research, and just about every other kind of research. And if the cloning ban is a ban on research in certain areas, as many are pushing for (but, again, the final laws have not been proposed, much less passed, so we'll have to wait), then is this not prior restraint on publishing? (BTW, most of the "effort" toward human cloning will be the 99.5% of the research, publication, discussion, etc. leading up to the final implantation. If the ban is to have any meaning, it must hit this 99.5%, just as the end of Federal funding has targetted this 99.5%. To wait until the final act is too late, as that can then be done in a foreign lab...or in any number of U.S. labs which the Clone Police will of course be unable to monitor!) >PS. I killfiled this guy ages ago on the grounds of rudeness, general >unpleasantness, and especially a complete and utter incomprehension about >how the law in this country operates. It is as if someone once read some >software company's publicity about how easy it is to operate their >software and concluded they should therefore be able to write programs in >any language. Yeah, I've gone back to killfiling him, too. Too many rants, too many forwardings of online news articles, and, as you say, a peculiarly literalist interpretation of the Constitution. (I also have somewhat of a literalist interpretation, but hopefully a more justified one.) >Since someone forwarded me this post, I'm replying to it, but I doubt I'll >bother doing so in the future. I entered this thread because Tim May made >some comments; I respect his writing and I think other people probably do >too. As a result, it seemed important to offer some basic doctrine as a >response. Note, again, that I'm not expressing a view on the MERITS of >the legislation, just one law professor's view on whether courts would be >likely to uphold it if it passes. I think Michael Froomkin has far too expansive a view of the powers granted government in the Constitution. The frequent citing of the commerce clause and "other powers" can be used to argue that government has the power to regulate just about everything, to tell people what kind of clothing they can wear (they might cross state lines), to limit access to research (commerce again), to tell them whom they must hire and whom they may not hire (Civil Rights Act), and so on. At least most proponents of draconian new laws restricting crypto, for example, adopt the fig leaf of talking about "compelling national interests" and suchlike. They don't simply cite the commerce clause as the basis for restricting crypto. (Even flakier arguments, in my view, are ones based on nebulous "public welfare" arguments. These can be used to ban nearly anything, from the eating of meat to the location of casinos to the licensing of broadcasters....a recipe for a total state.) It'll be interesting to see if the ACLU steps into the "ban on cloning," especially any possible (and likely, I think) "ban on cloning research" laws. If they accept Prof. Froomkin's argument that such a ban is ipso facto constitutional, I'd be surprised. And, like Froomkin, I'm not arguing for the merits or demerits of human cloning research (though I believe it's already unstoppable, and any ban will simply move it into the "bootleg research" area, which tickles my crypto anarchist interests anyway!). And I hope the ACLU would not argue on the basis of merits or not of such research. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From guy at panix.com Tue Jan 13 11:53:42 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 03:53:42 +0800 Subject: Schneier's metrocard cracked Message-ID: <199801131927.OAA21746@panix2.panix.com> > From schneier at visi.com Mon Jan 12 18:21:01 1998 > Subject: Re: Schneier's metrocard cracked > In-Reply-To: <199801122150.NAA11668 at comsec.com> from Information Security at "Jan 8, 98 11:40:23 pm" > To: guy at panix.com > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:22 -0600 (CST) > Cc: cp-lite at comsec.com > > Information Security wrote: > > Dr. Dim wrote: > > > > > > I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards > > > (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the > > > "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. > > > > > > Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? > > > > It sounds like a procedural thing. > > > > Something like there was a way to swipe cards and have the > > system wrongly think it updated the card. > > > > The city announced that every cardreader in the system > > is going to be recalibrated, and this will cause problems > > for "a few" existing cardholders. > > That's not my design. Counterpane consulted on the next generation > cards, not the current mag stripe cards in the NY system. The > protocols we developed are not currently being used in any fielded > system. > > Bruce A subsequent news report said hackers were taking discarded (single-use?) MetroCards and "reprogramming" them so they would work again. However, the description didn't sound like it was really hacking... The MTA said only 6 fraudulent uses of this was happening per day, and 40 of these total per day. "Of these"? 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You can't expect the New York Times to not publish the Pentagon papers once they've leaked. The responsibility is on the owner of the data to keep it secret, not on the whole world to help once he's screwed up. There are times when the people who get the data may choose not to redistribute it, but the decision to redistribute has been made before it gets to the eternity server. The Times did not steal the Pentagon papers. | of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort | of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. Somalia? Go places where the government is either non-existant or otherwise pre-occupied, and pay to drop IP in. The locals get communication infrastructure as long as they leave you alone, but if the linux box that has the web server goes down, so do the phone lines. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From ben at algroup.co.uk Tue Jan 13 13:20:49 1998 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:20:49 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801131551.KAA23584@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <34BBD8D8.94DBE073@algroup.co.uk> Ryan Lackey wrote: > BTW, I don't really like the overly negative names for Eternity, like > "inferno", or whatever. I like to think my data is *good* data, deserving > of a better fate. Elysium, perhaps? Or just use "eternity" > in place of "eternityspace" (a word I never should have used, since it means > the same thing), as in "upload these files to eternity", "the collection > of files currently stored in eternity", etc. Little danger of confusion > with pedestrian meanings of the word eternity, too, I think, and there > is no real reason to draw a distinction between eternity the location for > documents and eternity the overall system for creating such a space. How about "perpetuity"? Nice and neutral. "Stored in perpetuity" is a concept everyone understands, too. :-) Cheers, Ben. -- Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686|Apache Group member Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org and Technical Director|Email: ben at algroup.co.uk |Apache-SSL author A.L. Digital Ltd, |http://www.algroup.co.uk/Apache-SSL London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 13:25:49 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:25:49 +0800 Subject: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:47 AM -0800 1/13/98, Adam Shostack wrote: > I think that a Silk Road system, where most of the money flows >between neighbors, might be a useful model. Its also worth A flaw here is that the Real Silk Road (tm) had merchants up and down the line knowing the value of what they were buying, the rugs, silks, spices, gold, etc. Extending this to a long series of "encrypted" items is much more problematic. If the "final buyer" in "Damascus" ends up with a worthless item, does he blame the seller in "Kabul" or the seller in "Tashkent" or the seller all the way back the line? I don't see a "Silk Road" chain as being any improvement over the direct broadcast offer of a conventional Blacknet system. >considering getting the US Government to build and operate most of >Blacknet for us as a base for sting operations, much the way Arizona >State police distributed $7m marijuana to get $3m in seizures. Lots >of people got to smoke, courtesy of Uncle Sam. Even less likely. (Though I did hear of some interest by the DoD in what Blacknet could mean for their ability to keep secrets.) And with full untraceability, it would hardly work for "stings." Unless they could cause participants to trip themselves up and make mistakes, revealing their true names. Unlikely after the first few publicized mistakes. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From erehwon at dis.org Tue Jan 13 13:32:28 1998 From: erehwon at dis.org (William Knowles) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:32:28 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Adam Shostack wrote: > Thomas Womack wrote: > > | of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more > | extreme sort of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. > > Somalia? Go places where the government is either non-existant or > otherwise pre-occupied, and pay to drop IP in. The locals get > communication infrastructure as long as they leave you alone, but if > the linux box that has the web server goes down, so do the phone > lines. Well as far as countries that have governments that don't really exist there is always Liberia, But I personally would like my own militia included with their business development package. If I remember Black Unicorn's posts some months back about the Seychelles, The Rene government will protect you from extradition from any country with their military for what? $6 million? Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country willing on hosting data havens. And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just give you one just to be rid of future liability. Cheers! William Knowles erehwon at dis.org == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 13:40:00 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:40:00 +0800 Subject: Should police knock before entering - SC to decide [CNN] Message-ID: <199801132128.PAA28732@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > SUPREME COURT CASE: SHOULD POLICE KNOCK BEFORE ENTERING? > > SCOTUS graphic January 13, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:14 p.m. EST (1914 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court was being asked Tuesday to > decide whether law enforcement officers should ring the doorbell or > knock before entering a building if they sense danger. > > The case focuses on a 1994 incident in Oregon. Hernan Ramirez fired > his gun after police broke in his garage window after they received > a tip that a fugitive was in the Ramirez house. It was a tip that > turned out to be wrong. > > Ramirez fired his gun without knowing that those intruding were law > officers, and once he realized who the intruders were he > surrendered. > > "The police fire back a fusillade of fire, screaming 'police! > police!' -- this is the first time Mr. Ramirez realizes that the > police are there," said public defender Michael R. Levine. > > Even though Ramirez was not the fugitive that police had been > looking for, they still arrested Ramirez on weapons charges since, > as a convicted felon, he was not permitted to possess a gun. > > A federal judge later ruled that the police search had been > unconstitutional. The federal government then brought the case to > the Supreme Court, arguing that the increased danger in that > particular case had warranted the window-shattering no-knock entry > into the Ramirez building. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From erehwon at dis.org Tue Jan 13 14:47:10 1998 From: erehwon at dis.org (William Knowles) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:47:10 +0800 Subject: Privacy & Anonymous service providers? Message-ID: I'm working on a web page that would include a list of Internet providers that either offer anonymous accounts or a better degree of privacy not usually seen by regular ISP's. Below is a list of providers that offers these services that I have been able to put together, I'm wondering if there are some that I am missing. To avoid noise on the list and I'm no longer a member of the cypherpunks list, please e-mail me privately. Paranoia http://wwww.paranoia.com Data Haven Project http://www.datahaven.com L0pht Heavy Industries http://www.l0pht.com Offshore Information Services http://www.offshore.ai Cyberpass http://www.cyberpass.net SkuzNet http://skuz.wanweb.net LOD Communications http://www.lod.com The Nymserver http://www.nymserver.com Sekurity.org http://www.sekurity.org Hotmail http://www.hotmail.com Thanks in advance! William Knowles erehwon at dis.org == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 14:47:31 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:47:31 +0800 Subject: And Justice For All In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Someone sent me this article, saying it sounded a bit like me. I agree. Interesting to hear this guy calling for justice to be given to some government criminals. --Tim May At 2:24 PM -0800 1/13/98, xxxxx wrote: >This guy sounds a little like you when you're in your best form. > >xxxxx > >>From September 1997 issue of Media Bypass - Found at >http://www.4bypass.com/stories/line2.html > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >A Return to Accountability > > By "The Guardian" > > > > In 1994, there was the so-called "Republican Revolution." Supposedly, >we finally got a > bunch of "good" politicians into office to fix things. Fat lot of good >that did us. The > American people were stabbed in the back by these so called "good" >politicians. They > gave us more gun-free school zones, after the Supreme Court said that >Congress does not > have that authority; they gave us a National ID card law; they gave us >the biggest seizure > of guns in our history through the domestic violence restrictions on >owning guns; they gave > us lots of "health care crimes" that are punishable by asset >forfeiture- by both the doctor > and the patient; they gave us several new national databases that will >track very personal > information on virtually every American; and they gave us the specter >of secret trials with > secret evidence for "certain" classes of people. > > Voting is a time honored practice that allegedly allows the people to >direct the course of > the government by choosing the leaders and focusing on the issues of >importance. The > problem is that as a check on the government's runaway growth and >abuses, it doesn't > work. James Collier wrote the book "VoteScam" to point out the massive >voting fraud > that is endemic to the American electoral process. Look at the current >scandals > surrounding the campaign finance issues. Where does the will of the >people enter into this > process? The answer is that it doesn't. > > So, shall we kick the issue of reforming government over to the >Courts? What a joke. > The courts decide issues as they wish, based not upon law, but upon an >ever changing > concept called "Public Policy." If they get a tough issue, they say >it's a "political question" > and refuse to hear it. The right arguments can be made, but are then >rejected as being > "frivolous" or "irrelevant." Critical issues are rarely decided on the >merits; rather, they ride > on the crutches of manipulated "precedent." > > Let the judges who have sworn an oath of office and posted their bond >as required by > law come forward. The oath of office provided a contract with the >people which in the > event of breach, provided the grounds to bring suit. The bond was >forfeit if the judge > misbehaved. Yet these judges refuse to hold themselves to the law and >obey. The Citizen > who demands that the judge present a copy of his oath of office and a >copy of his bond is > ignored. Today, the citizen who tries to bring suit against a judge or >prosecutor for > misconduct is sidelined by another judge- who is often as or more >guilty than the one being > sued. The question is asked "Where is the justice?" There is none in >this system. > > So what are the options that are left? Should people attempt to drop >out of the system > and ask to simply be left alone? They might end up like the people at >Waco who were > killed over an alleged tax deficiency- the non-payment of the transfer >tax on several > weapons. And all of that was simply alleged. There was no court of Law >to hear their > case, and make a finding of guilt or innocence. They were murdered by >a federal > government that will not bring the murderers to justice. Some say that >the Davidians were > murdered as part of an experiment to find out what the American public >was willing to > tolerate. The Constitution came under serious attack, and the American >people cheered as > the government tanks smashed the building, pumped in poison gas, and >then burned and > machine gunned the inhabitants of a separatist religious sect. Don't >believe it? Go see the > movie "Waco: Rules of Engagement." Watch your government caught in the >lie. See the > worms wiggle and squirm. > > What about Randy Weaver? His was just another family that was trying >to withdraw from > what they saw as a corrupt society. Randy buried his wife and son. His >son, shot in the > back by federal marshals, was trying to return to the house. His last >words were, "I'm > coming daddy." Vicky, his wife, was murdered by an FBI agent named Lon >Horiuchi as > she stood in the doorway holding an infant child in her arms. Lon, who >brags that he can > put his shots "on a quarter" at two hundred yards, shot her in the >head at a distance of > about two hundred yards. Vicky Weaver is long buried, and Lon is still >working for the > FBI as a "shooter," not seeing anything wrong with what he did. > > [Editors note: Lon Horiuchi has just been indicted by the State of >Idaho, for the > crime of "involuntary manslaughter." Kevin Harris, who was found not >guilty by a > jury in his federal trial, is being charged with Murder in the First >Degree. What does > that tell you?] > > So, if the People can't vote honest and moral leaders into office, and >there isn't any way > to get rid of the rotten apples- or to even get damages when they have >done wrong, and > the government has demonstrated that they will take you out if you try >to separate from the > society, then what options are left? > > It's a hard question with an even harder answer. > > Go ahead and educate the public all you want -- the public is so >enamored with the 30 > second sound byte that they will never pay attention long enough to >ever present a threat > to the established order. The government, adhering to its global >agenda, is rushing ahead > full tilt to steamroller our remaining rights. Our own Congress and >President declared war > on the American People in 1932 (the infamous "Trading With The Enemy >Act"), and they > have now progressed to the rape, pillage and burn phase of the war. >Who is so foolish as > to claim that this is not so? > > This letter is not a call to anarchy. It is a demand for >accountability from the treasonous > bastards that are destroying our country. The problem is that the >legislators, judges, > prosecutors, and other public officials have chosen to sidestep the >constitutionally > mandated checks on their power by not swearing oaths of office or >posting fidelity bonds. > They have passed laws giving themselves immunity from suits for their >unlawful actions. > They have created organizations of jack-booted thugs to intimidate, >harass, and > sometimes kill anyone who is willing to speak out or show any form of >resistance. These > scum have set themselves outside the law, and are thus by definition, >outlaws. Since they > eschew any of the legitimate means of accountability, then it looks >like there is only one > way to re-instill a respect for the Constitution. We must give the >members of government > more incentive to support the Constitution limitations on government >than they have to > violate the Constitution. > > That means that a few of them need to be killed. Maybe a lot of them. >Perhaps when they > see that there is a final solution available to the people, and that >they are not untouchable, > they might start acting in an accountable manner. Since our public >servants have separated > themselves from all of the established forms of accountability, it is >time to return to > Chairman Mao's observation: All political power emanates from the >barrel of a gun. > > You say: "That's immoral!" I respond that morality is concerned with >right and wrong. > When an organized group attacks you, your family, or your community, >then they have > performed what can only be described as an act of war. The response of >any moral > individual is that you defend yourself and prosecute the war to the >fullest extent possible, > for the purpose of winning. Preemptive strikes are just part of the >rules of the road for this > task. Wars are either won or lost, and the Federal Government, along >with the various > state apparatuses, is at war with the American People. Cliche� as it >sounds, they drew first > blood. > > So if they are to be killed, it must be done for cause. Those laboring >to bring our nation > back to its Republican rule of Law must not kill innocent people in >the process. Blowing > up innocent children and non-participants is just as much a crime as >any that the tyrants > have committed. The way to change the government is through the >surgically precise > excision of the traitorous lumps. The wiser ones will see the writing >on the wall, and there > will be a spontaneous remission of the treasonous disease. > > The only problem that remains is in identifying the enemy. Moral >action requires that the > right targets be chosen. Focusing on the low level players would not >significantly affect the > treasonous policies. It is the ruling elite that promulgates the >policies, and it is they who > must be held accountable. the charge is willful treason, and the >sentence is preordained. > When the ruling elite realize that they are not immune to >accountability for their actions, > then changes will come quickly. > > The major stumbling block to this plan is that most people don't have >the guts to carry out > the deed. Or if they do, it's a spur of the moment action with no >planning or preparation. > This is not the way to do it. Wars are not won by spur of the moment, >emotionally ignited > actions. They are won by calm, cool planning and sound strategy. It is >up to the people as > individuals, who can't rely on any group or organization. Too many >have been infiltrated by > the enemy. Make sure you know what you are doing before you go off >half-cocked. > There are lots of how-to books on this delicate subject. > > Leave no evidence, have no connecting links, and don't flap your lips. >The result is no > arrests. The ruling elite may call it terrorism, but did they ever >have a no-knock raid pulled > on their house? Were they ever forced to stand in their own homes, >naked or in their > underwear while masked federal or state agents tore the house apart- >while making crude > jokes about their wife and terrorizing their children? Have they ever >had to try to rebuild a > sense of "home" after the government came in and destroyed any >semblance of security > that the family had? Did they have their pregnant wife slammed up >against the wall, causing > her to lose the baby? Did they have to find an answer for their little >boy, when he asked if > the welfare police were going to come back and beat up daddy? > > What is accountability all about? The second amendment ensures that We the > People have the means to take down the real terrorists. This is a view >most > people won't openly discuss, though they may hold it deep in their >hearts. To > seriously consider the idea is to potentially confront the inescapable >conclusion > that action, not talk, is required, and that's too much for most. > > Finally, let's talk about what happens if you get caught. There are no >prisoners in this war: > Expect to be crucified. Tried in the press, condemned in the public >arena, and then put on > "trial" in a court that will not allow anything but a guilty verdict. >Dumped in the worst hell of > the prison system, fighting for your life and manhood, unable to >contact your family or find > out anything about them. After years of incarceration, there might be >an execution, or you > might be found dead in your cell, another unfortunate "suicide." But >if you think the > downside is too rough, then read about what happened to the signers of >the Declaration of > Independence. They were uniformly abused, harassed, ruined, and in >some cases killed. > They saw horrible treatment for themselves and their families. Is the >price they paid worth > anything? > > If you are unable to accept the responsibility of fighting for your >freedom while there is still > a bit of freedom to move and communicate, then you had better accept >the slavery and > live with it. There will never be a better time to oppose the tyra.nts >than now. As in any > war, there will be casualties. It may happen to you, whether you are >in the fight or not. > Why wait to fall? Why stick your head in the sand and wait for things >to get worse? Why > not take the fight to the oppressors and at least show them that their >plans will be > opposed? > > Winston Churchill said it best: > > "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win >without bloodshed, > if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so >costly, you may > come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds >against you > and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse >case. You > may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it >is better to > perish than to live as slaves." > > > > > > > About the author: 'The Guardian' is the nom de plume of an individual >who occasionally > sends Media Bypass letters and articles for submission. His work has >been published in > several magazines under various names. He chooses to remain anonymous >(in view of the > above letter) for obvious reasons. From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 14:58:01 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:58:01 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> Message-ID: At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >If I remember Black Unicorn's posts some months back about the >Seychelles, The Rene government will protect you from extradition >from any country with their military for what? $6 million? Or until a higher bid comes in.... Really, there is no security in meatspace. Not compared to the security mathematics provides. Whether floating offshore barges or abandoned oil rigs or compliant Third World dictatorships, no "data haven" with an identifiable nexus in meatspace will last for long, at least not serving all types of materials. When I read Sterling's "Islands in the Net," in 1988, I was initially upset that he'd "discovered" my own developing ideas about data havens (though I called it crypto anarchy), but then pleased to see how he he'd missed the boat on the role cyberspace and strong crypto would inevitably play. But the legacy of "data havens" is that people get the wrong idea, by thinking of a data haven as a "place." In actuality, what's important are the retrieval mechanisms, not the place things are possibly stored. Hence approaches like Blacknet. (The parallels with the international money system are obvious...it is less important each year that passes just "where" the underlying store of value is physically stored. There are some important issues and differences, though.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 15:08:38 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:08:38 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> Message-ID: At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country >willing on hosting data havens. Oh yeah? It's been a while since we talked about this (at least on the Cypherpunks list), but a couple of years ago there was much discusson on the CP list about just what items would be allowable in Anguilla. Vince Cate gave his assessment, which I found fairly nebulous, in that it appeared the Ruling Families would allow what they would allow, and not allow what they would not allow---there seemed to be a lot of ad hoc rulings. (Given that copies of "Penthouse" are illegal in Anguilla, if I recall this correctly, and given that gun are illegal, and drugs are illegal, I rather doubt that Anguilla would happily host "The Aryan Nations Bomb Site," or "Pedophile Heaven," or "Gun Smuggler's Digest. " Or the even juicier stuff any "data haven" with any claim to really being a data haven will surely have.) >And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking >for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling >rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just >give you one just to be rid of future liability. Given the willingness of the French to have SDECE sink Greenpeace ships in neutral ports, how long before a couple of kilos of Semtex are applied to the underside of these oil rigs? Given what happened with "pirate broadcast tankers," the future is not bright. When the first "oil rig data haven" is found to have kiddie porn, bomb-making info, and (shudder) material doubting the historicity of the Holocaust, the U.N. will cluck and the public will cheer when it is boarded and seized, or simply sunk. As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From sunder at beast.brainlink.com Tue Jan 13 15:25:57 1998 From: sunder at beast.brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:25:57 +0800 Subject: news from spyking list... Message-ID: Subject: GPS Jamming *New Scientist* (8 Jan 1998, http://www.newscientist.com) included an article saying that a Russian company called Aviaconversia was offering a 4-watt GPS/Glonass jammer for less than $4000 at the September Moscow Air Show. It says that it could stop civilian aircraft locking onto GPS signals over a 200 Km radius; military aircraft would be harder to jam, but a more powerful unit could be built. The risks (terrorism etc.) are fairly obvious, and it's mentioned that it would probably be easy to build one even if this company's product is somehow removed from the market. ************************************************************************** 21)From: SpyKing at thecodex.com Subject: Spying around the world Corporate Spying On The Rise In India Corporate espionage is big business in India, and because of this, Indian corporations are busy installing internal information security programs that include paper shredders, computer database password-protection, and careful security checks of new employees. Indian analysts predict that corporate counter-espionage will become mandatory at many big companies as competition among the major players heats up, even between regional businesses. NSA Monitoring Sales Of Encryption Software In July, 1995, the National Security Agency (NSA) wrote "A Study of the International Market for Encryption" which NSA official Jon A. Goldsmith declared in sworn testimony should remain secret because "in developing its portion of the study, NSA sought and received information from the Department of State, the CIA and from foreign sources." NSA acquired data for their portion of the report from its global spying programs. But in some cases, the information was obtained by the CIA and passed onto the NSA. Goldsmith noted one section of the report involved the "Proposed Netherlands Telecommunications Service Act in 1993." Goldsmith testified "The first sentence of this paragraph was supplied by the CIA and is protected." The Netherlands is a major encryption hardware and software exporter (particularly Philips). Apparently the CIA spent some monitoring the Dutch legislature to find out what kind of laws it intended to pass regarding encryption technologies. Those details found their way into the NSA's secret report. Another section of this report details the close cooperation between the NSA and foreign intelligence services. Goldsmith testified the report "References discussions between Italian officials and members of the National Security Authority regarding Law Number 222 of February 27, 1992 and is protected in its entirety..." The NSA for some time has routinely monitored foreign-produced encryption technologies and has performed daily reports on these products, in addition to how fast and how economically it can crack these products, which so far the NSA has been able to do. But, NSA officials have testified before Congress, foreign encryption software is getting increasingly more sophisticated and thus harder and more costly to break in a timely manner. Domestically, the NSA appears to be secretly keeping tabs on U.S. sales of encryption software. In the secret 1995 report there's a section titled, "Software Outlets/Computer Stores" which "Refers to a internal NSA document control number and project name..." Observers believe this project involves domestic surveillance of US retail sales of encryption software. What, how, and who is being monitored, though, is a secret. FBI Finds Files On Chinese Influence, Counterintelligence Sources Worried The FBI recently discovered new and heretofore unknown counterintelligence files in its investigation of a possible Chinese plot to influence U.S. elections. The material was found following a search FBI Director Louis Freeh ordered in September "when it became apparent the FBI was in possession of certain counterintelligence information" an FBI statement said. Sources at other agencies say they are appalled that the FBI could misplace or overlook such vital information in a major counterintelligence probe. Particularly when the probe is of a government like that of China, which is well known for spying on America and is notorious for stealing details on advanced American technologies. "Either the Bureau is inept, or something else happened here," said one counterintelligence source, who was alluding to the files possibly being been alleged in relation to White House campaign fund-raising activities). China Grooming More Spies? About 100 elite Hong Kong schools, headed by the territory's Catholic institutions, are allowed to teach all classes in English, despite the territory's return to Chinese rule. Starting with the new school term, a total of 307 of the territory's 400 schools must teach all subjects in Chinese. However, believing that their children will have better job opportunities, most parents still want English instruction for them. By the year 2000, all students will study Mandarin Chinese, the basis for nation-wide university entrance exams. Western intelligence experts believe the elite school language leniency stems from the mainland government's desire to continue the English language program to groom economic and political spies. The US State Department has identified China as the country which sends the largest number of spies to the United States and has uncovered a Chinese spy within its own ranks during 1997. Iraq's Intelligence Service Spies On UN WMD Observers Utilizing sophisticated electronic eavesdropping and other SIGINT resources, Iraqi intelligence agents have been spying on UN weapons inspectors (whose ranks reportedly include individuals collecting particular intelligence for the U.S.) and have been able to learn in advance of the UN inspection team's targets. Consequently, Iraq has been able to quickly secrete both their weapons of mass destruction and their records of manufacturing, U.S. military and intelligence officials have said. These officials suspect that some of the SIGINT capabilities of Iraq have been provided through black market channels from the Former Soviet Republics (FSR). U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen has publicly acknowledged that the U.S. believes the Iraqis have the ability to eavesdrop electronically on the UN inspectors. In addition, Iraqi agents are suspected of conducting physical and electronic surveillance of individual UN inspection team members, including monitoring their homes. Ewen Buchanan, the spokesman for the inspection commission at UN headquarters in New York, is quoted saying "we are obviously aware that the Iraqis try their damnedest to monitor us, our planning, our thoughts, even in New York, and to develop an early warning system -- what we want, where we're going, what we are trying to inspect. They must use every means at their disposal." Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said intelligence authorities do not believe that Saddam Hussein has managed to penetrate the UN Special Commission of weapons inspectors, known as UNSCOM, but rather they believe that "Iraq has found ways to learn ahead of time some of UNSCOM's plans," using SIGINT and other technical means. Counterintelligence Searches For North Korean Spies The Agency for National Security Planning (NSP) believes North Korea has targeted 1,500 South Koreans to establish new spy networks within South Korea. Evidence of this effort has been obtained through the investigations and arrests of alleged spies. That North Korea is bankrolling a massive spy operation against the South bolsters intelligence findings by U.S. counterintelligence sources, who say North Korea is aggressively recruiting spies in South Korea, targeting infrastructure, commerce, and technology in particular. Details on the North Korean spying activities began to emerge following the recent arrest of 69-year-old Ko Young-bok, a noted sociology professor who once worked for Seoul National University. Ko stands accused of spying for North Korea for 36 years. He was arrested after having been linked to a North Korean spy couple. During its investigation, the NSP intercepted a telephone communication Ko had received from an unidentified source immediately before his Ko had received from an unidentified source immediately before his arrest urging him to fly to Beijing and take shelter at the North Korean embassy there. The caller is believed by the NSP to be in charge of North Korean spy rings in South Korea. According to intelligence sources, few people, except for ranking North Korean spy officials, know who all the spies are in South Korea. Intelligence officials said all North Korean spies form small separate rings and contact between the different rings is limited. Earlier, Shim Jong-ung, 55, was arrested on charges of spying for North Korea. A Seoul subway official, Shim is accused of providing North Korea with information which could be used to destroy subway systems. Bok is an eminent scholar known as the father of sociology studies in South Korea, who served as director of a government research center and who made two official trips to North Korea in 1973 as a South Korean adviser. South Korean authorities assert that on those occasions he actually briefed North Korea on the South's bargaining position. The alleged spy ring was broken up when a leftist reported to South Korean authorities that he had been approached by two North Koreans and asked to spy for the North. That led counterintelligence officials to detain the two North Koreans, Choi Chung Nam, 35, and his wife, Kang Yun Jung, 28. Kang committed suicide a day later. The police had searched the two carefully for any suicide capsules, X-raying them and examining their mouths, but when Kang went to the bathroom with an escort she removed a cyanide capsule she had hidden in her vagina and killed herself with it. Choi, however, confessed and apparently led the counterintelligence agents to the North Korean spies with whom he had been in contact. He also showed them drop-off places around Seoul used to hide guns, radio transmitters and ball-point pens that shoot lethal poison Choi allegedly confessed that their mission was to recruit agents, future infiltrations, and obtain information about a new, highly productive strain of corn developed in the South. Have Pakistan Intelligence Agents Penetrated U.S. Agencies? According to fundamental Pakistani sources monitored by U.S. intelligence analysts, "trusted" "brothers" have managed to rise to crucial positions in U.S. military intelligence, and have access to details about CIA operations in the Middle East. English NSA Facility Comes Under Fire An NSA facility in Menwith Hill, England, the biggest spy station in the world capable of monitoring the communications spectrum throughout Europe, has come under British scrutiny. The European Commission has issued a report, "Assessing the Technologies of Political Control," that says the spying system, known as "Echelon," is a threat to European privacy rights and laws. European Commission spokesman, Simon Davies, said the report warns that the system can "eavesdrop on every telephone, email, and telex communication around the world." According to the report, "the Echelon system forms part of the UKUSA system but unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, Echelon is designed primarily for non- military targets: governments, organizations and businesses in virtually every country. "The Echelon system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and then siphoning out what is valuable using artificial intelligence aids like MEMEX to find key words." Echelon uses a number of national dictionaries containing key words of interest to each country. The Commission report was requested last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled spy stations on British soil and around the world that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitor "countless phone, fax and email messages." It states "within Europe all email telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency transferring all target information from the European mainland via the strategic hub of London then by satellite to Fort Meade in Maryland via the crucial hub at Menwith Hill" in Yorkshire. The report recommends a variety of measures for dealing with the NSA facility at Menwith Hill and other centers including that "the European Parliament should reject proposals from the United States for making private messages via the global communications network Internet) accessible to US intelligence agencies. The report also urges a fundamental review of the involvement of the American NSA in Europe, suggesting that the activities be scaled down, or become more open and accountable. The report was the subject of discussion on Dec. 21 by the committee of the office of Science and Technology Assessment in Luxembourg. They confirmed that the citizens of Britain and other European states are subject to an intensity of surveillance far in excess of that imagined by most parliaments. The report was developed due to pressure by Glyn Ford. Labour MEP for Greater Manchester East, England. He says "there are times in history when technology helps democratize, and times when it helps centralize. This is a time of centralization. The justice and home affairs pillar of Europe has become more powerful without corresponding strengthening of civil liberties." The reaction of the members was one of shock and "deep concern" for the rights of European citizens even though the UK facility has been in place for over 15 years and the technology there has been an "open secret" for most of that period. Thus, the question becomes have the European governments dismissed information from their own intelligence personnel as impossible, or does this signal a new coldness in European/US relations. According to the London Telegraph, the real concern is not so much civil liberties as industrial espionage. In a Dec. 16 report it stated that "the principal motivation for this rush of development is the US interest in commercial espionage." The report pointed out that several of the facilities have been in place since the Nineteen-Fifties. The role of these NSA sites was to provide military, diplomatic and economic intelligence by intercepting communications from throughout the Northern Hemisphere. When the British Parliament has questioned new eavesdropping developments over the past 40 years, secrecy issues have generally been invoked. With treaties and agreements with other European countries, these concerns are not likely to block future investigations by the European Parliament and other E. U. groups. France and Germany are particularly expected to pursue the issues raised based on concerns about industrials spying. Last year, several American agents were expelled from France on charges of economic espionage. Whether the impetus for the European report was concern for civil rights or over trade secrets, the results may be that we in the US will be better informed of what the NSA is doing at home and how our own rights have been treated by an organization which has the motto: "We don't talk, we listen." From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 15:28:38 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:28:38 +0800 Subject: mobile agents paper Message-ID: <199801132319.XAA00514@server.eternity.org> Nelson Minar pointed out in email to me the relevance of his thesis proposal and paper "Computational Media for Mobile Agents" to the discussion on autonomous agents as a means to deploying eternity servers and remailers etc. http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/ (Not read it yet). Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 15:29:06 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:29:06 +0800 Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) In-Reply-To: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801131838.SAA00317@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: It appears to me that your comments to Michael are based on your views on the undesirability of the way the US judicial system operates in practice today. Michael is merely offering his expert opinion on how various questions would likely be interpreted by the current legal system. Black Unicorn also tends to get flack from various people for stating what I am sure is a realistic view of the way that certain legal questions would be viewed by judges, the supreme courts etc. Personally I am grateful to any one with legal expertise giving input to legal questions on list. Greg Broiles also adds useful comments in this area. Screams of "and you think this is a good idea?" and "but what about the constitution" are misdirected; I strongly suspect each of the three posters I mention above share your distaste for the redefinition of meanings and blatant disregard for the fairly clear meanings of the constitution. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801132138.VAA00407@server.eternity.org> Ryan Lackey writes: > You would be expected to comply with efforts to stamp out illegal > activities. Laws may be passed (e.g. CDA) which would require > technical measures to prevent illegal activity even if you are a > common carrier. Governments are always trying to coerce people into complying with technical measures designed by the likes of GCHQ, NSA, and various government sell-outs. Spammers have surived so far because spam is so hard to stop; stopping SPAM is an inherently hard problem, mostly because of open access SMTP relays which is basically a historic accident, and also because spammers make use of accounts that it pays them to treat as disposable. (I like to think hashcash, http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/hashcash/ is a viable solution for spam, though it too must be widely deployed before it would be practical). We can perhaps learn something from the services and environments which allow spammers to flourish, we could emulate the lack of authentication, and identification in SMTP protocols and implementations, to design attractive new services which are hard to police by design. This is the advantage of the internet protocol designer. Distributed web services as Ryan is prototyping is one attractive new service. The challenge is deployment. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 15:30:36 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:30:36 +0800 Subject: metrics of eternity service properties Message-ID: <199801132316.XAA00505@server.eternity.org> Tim May writes: > >> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, > >> sparse set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database > >> sets. (If and when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, > >> he will be viewed as > >> a spammer. :-) ) > > > >The best criticism of my eternity design to date! I agree. > > I assume you are serious, and do agree, as it is a very solid > criticism of the "Eternity as continuous posting to Usenet" model. Yes. I think my eternity service in USENET is actually fairly resistant to attackers determining readers and publishers. The limiting factor is the bandwidth consumed. We have to keep below some threshold otherwise news admins may attempt to filter out eternity articles; and there is some limit at which the system would break down altogether. One suspects posting more than around 10Mb-20Mb / day would be enough to motivate administrators to start filtering. Some people with questionable motivation also have made something of a sport of sending forged cancel messages, and these people will be more easily motivated, as as far as I can tell their motivation is a perverse enjoyment of censorship, and sense of self importance, and of malice in perpetrating DoS attacks. > I see several axes to the analysis of the various Eternity schemes. > > -- retrieval time for a customer or client to obtain some set of data, > ranging from (I assume) ~minutes or less in an Eternity DDS file system to > ~days or less in a Blacknet system to (I am guessing) ~weeks or months in > an Adam Back sort of system. Actually I was aiming for seconds access time with "Eternity USENET". (I am going to dub it "Eternity USENET" -- just any name -- because the lack of names to denote the services under discussion is becoming awkward.) However the reason I am able to claim seconds is because I aim to keep the data either in the newspool, or in a local copy of recent messages. The design is similar to TELETEXT, the text mode information services hosted as side bands on TV signals. The basic topology is the same: we have a broadcast medium, data is slowly re-broadcast. So my design is fairly analogous to a FAST-TEXT system, which keeps a copy of all the pages, and updates them as the TEXT signal sweeps past. So metrics we could use to describe the functionality of an eternity design should include "update time", and "access time". I'll try a quick table of this to illustrate my understanding of Eternity BlackNet (BlackNet used to host an Eternity like service), and Eternity DDS as compared to Eternity USENET. E-BlackNet E-USENET E-DDS update delay 2-3 days 2-3 days minutes access time 2-3 days seconds minutes b/width efficiency good/ poor intermediate intermediate nodes 10 10,000 10,000 capacity 100 Gb 100 Mb 10 Tb security good good intermediate security dependencies remailers, remailers, custom USENET USENET componenets ease of deployment easy easy hard Clearly these figures are order of magnitude only, if even that accurate. My reasoning is as follows: Eternity BlackNet: I am presuming we have third party BlackNet operators who offer to buy and sell information, acting as distribution agents. It takes around a day to send requests or submissions to the operator via a dead drop (encrypted material posted to USENET via remailer). If requested information is sent to clients via replyable nyms bandwidth efficiency is improved. If information is sent to clients via dead drops efficiency drops because the information is broadcast for each request. Clearly a user could, if he wished to improve his access time for browsing BlackNet eternity documents, replicate the entire BlackNet database locally. (Or perhaps subsets defined as all documents by a chosen set of authors, or all documents with given keywords, or with a given third party rating etc). E-USENET: This involves re-posting documents periodically to USENET, and relying on the small data set size to ensure that local eternity proxies can retain a current copy of the dataset. Variants on this approach can migrate towards E-DDS approach by using publically accessible E-USENET servers, and by E-USENET server caches sharing their then larger document store. Also by adding other submission mechanisms to the pool formed by the set of publically accessible E-USENET services. E-DDS: Economic incentives are used to encourage people to take risks in hosting controversial documents. Indirection is used to have a hidden set of data servers, which are only accessed via publically known gateways. (I would recommend looking at Ian Goldberg and David Wagner's TAZ server, the url for which I posted in an earlier post, for this indirection function). I am unsure how an attacker would be prevented from discovering the hidden set of data servers. How do we exclude the attacker from becoming a gateway server? I get the impression that the idea also is make the service a commercial success as a distributed web hosting system, and to get away with comparitively small amounts of controversial materials which migrate. This idea is a useful model I think. Comments? Clarifications, Ryan? Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 15:31:00 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:31:00 +0800 Subject: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: EternityServices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801132241.WAA00454@server.eternity.org> Tim May > At 6:46 PM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote: > >One tactic which could protect a USENET newsgroup operator from child > >porn prosecutions is if he had no practical way to recognize such > >materials until after it was distributed to down stream sites. > > Who are these "USENET newsgroup operators," anyway? (A few newsgroups are > moderated, by individuals or committees, but the vast majority are not.) I meant USENET site operators (so that would be administrators plus the people who decide policy). Even moderation need not be a fatal problem with steganography, if we post the key to decrypt the stego encoded message after the article has had a chance to be distributed. (And presuming that our mimic function is good enough to fool the moderator.) For unmoderated groups, we have a much easier task: that of avoiding undue attention or cancellations until the message has propagated. > Newsgroups get removed from university and corporate newsfeeds, or by > nations, and Adam's ruse would not stop them from continuing to do so. In the extreme we can try to use mimic functions to post textual information seemingly on charter for whatever groups are remaining at a given time. Binary data is obviously much easier to hide data in, but is in any case a natural target for omitting from feeds due to volume. Unfortunately good quality textual steganography encodings are I think a hard problem for reasonable data rates. One advantage in our favour is the massively noisy and incoherent garbage which forms the majority of USENET traffic. Plausibly mimicing an alt.2600 or warez d00d message, or a `cascade' seems like an easier target. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 15:31:18 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:31:18 +0800 Subject: load balancing web proxy and server networks Message-ID: <199801132146.VAA00420@server.eternity.org> We might also think about adding hot spot avoidance to distributed web hosting mechanisms. A distributed web space which distributed itself to meet demand would be useful. (An example of hot spots being perhaps Dan Farmer's web site after he released Satan ... he switched the web server off to stop his T1 being saturated, until the deluge subsided). An automatic load balancing distributed web server would be a kind of next generation web proxy cacheing and mirroring scheme, dynamically replicating and cacheing data to meet demand. Robustness could be improved also by the redundancy introduced. Those browsing documents would pay for their web accesses at the service rate they desired. A market in web data would then give web proxies / mirroring agents an economic incentive to automatically replicate and migrate data. Web caches already have some protection from various laws. One other idea for an eternity service host we could leach off was suggested to me by Ian Brown . His suggestion was that it would be nice if we could con proxy caches into cacheing eternity web space for us. One way to do this for example would be to actually host our own web pages, but to configure our web server to only serve to a list of web proxies -- anybody else would get access denied. The .htaccess mechanism would be sufficient for this purpose. Adam From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 15:31:29 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:31:29 +0800 Subject: Plan 9's auth() function - partialy secure distributed computing Message-ID: <199801132352.RAA29571@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 17:51:44 1998 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:51:42 -0600 From: Jim Choate Message-Id: <199801132351.RAA29535 at einstein.ssz.com> X-within-URL: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/6/auth To: ravage at einstein.ssz.com Subject: auth [search] [index] delim $$ define lbr ' roman "{" ' define rbr ' roman "}" ' NAME ticket - authentication service DESCRIPTION This manual page describes the protocols used to authorize connections, confirm the identities of users and machines, and maintain the associated databases. The machine that provides these services is called the authentication server (AS). The AS may be a stand-alone machine or a general-use machine such as a CPU server. The network database ndb(6) holds for each public machine, such as a CPU server or file server, the name of the authentication server that machine uses. Each machine contains three values important to authentication; a 56-bit DES key, a 28-byte authentication ID, and a 48-byte authentication domain name. The ID is a user name and identifies who is currently responsible for the kernel running on that machine. The domain name identifies the machines across which the ID is valid. Together, the ID and domain name identify the owner of a key. When a terminal boots, the user is prompted for user name and password. The user name becomes the terminal's authentication ID. The password is converted using passtokey (see auth(2)) into a 56-bit DES key and saved as the machine's key. The authentication domain is set to the null string. If possible, the terminal validates the key with the AS before saving it. For Internet machines the correct AS to ask is found using bootp(8). For Datakit machines the AS is a system called p9auth on the same Datakit node as the file server the terminal booted from. When a CPU or file server boots, it reads the key, ID, and domain name from non-volatile RAM. This allows servers to reboot without operator intervention. The details of any authentication are mixed with the semantics of the particular service they are authenticating so we describe them one case at a time. The following definitions will be used in the descriptions: $CH sub c$ an 8-byte random challenge from a client $CH sub s$ an 8-byte random challenge from a server $K sub s$ server's key $K sub c$ client's key $K sub n$ a nonce key created for a ticket $K lbr m rbr$ message $m$ encrypted with key $K$ $ID sub s$ server's ID $DN sub s$ server's authentication domain name $ID sub c$ client's ID $UID sub c$ user's name on the client $UID sub s$ user's name on the server A number of constants defined in auth.h are also used: AuthTreq, AuthChal, AuthOK, AuthErr, AuthTs, AuthTc, AuthAs, and AuthAc. File Service File service sessions are long-lived connections between a client host and a file server. Processes belonging to different users share the session. Whenever a user process on the client mounts a file server (see bind(2)), it must authenticate itself. There are four players in an authentication: the server, the client kernel, the user process on the client, and the authentication server. The goal of the authentication protocol is to convince the server that the client may validly speak for the user process. To reduce the number of messages for each authentication, common information is exchanged once at the beginning of the session within a session message (see attach(5)): Client->Server Tsession($CH sub c$) Server->Client Rsession(${CH sub s},~{ID sub s},~{DN sub s}$) Each time a user mounts a file server connection, an attach message is sent identifying/authenticating the user: Client->Server Tattach($K sub s lbr AuthTs, ~ {CH sub s},~{UID sub c}, ~ {UID sub s}, ~ K sub n rbr , ~ {K sub n} lbr AuthAc, ~ {CH sub s}, count rbr )$ Server->Client Rattach($ K sub n lbr AuthAs,~{CH sub c},~count rbr$) The part of the attach request encrypted with $Ksubs$ is called a ticket. Since it is encrypted in the server's secret key, this message is guaranteed to have originated on the AS. The part encrypted with the $K sub n$ found in the ticket is called an authenticator. The authenticator is generated by the client kernel and guarantees that the ticket was not stolen. The count is incremented with each mount to make every authenticator unique, thus foiling replay attacks. The server is itself authenticated by the authenticator it sends as a reply to the attach. Tickets are created by the AS at the request of a user process. The AS contains a database of which $ID sub c$'s may speak for which $UID sub c$'s. If the $ID sub c$ may speak for the $UID sub c$, two tickets are returned. UserProc->AS $AuthTreq, ~ CH sub s , ~ ID sub s , ~ DN sub s , ~ ID sub c , ~ UID sub c$ AS->UserProc $AuthOK, ~ K sub c lbr AuthTc, ~ CH sub s , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub s , ~ K sub n rbr , ~ K sub s lbr AuthTs, ~ CH sub s , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub s , ~ K sub n rbr$ Otherwise an error message is returned. AS->UserProc $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string The user passes both tickets to the client's kernel using the fauth system call (see fsession(2)). The kernel decrypts the ticket encrypted with $K sub c$. If $UID sub c$ matches the user's login ID, the tickets are remembered for any subsequent attaches by that user of that file server session. Otherwise, the ticket is assumed stolen and an error is returned. Remote Execution A number of applications require a process on one machine to start a process with the same user ID on a server machine. Examples are cpu(1), rx (see con(1)), and exportfs(4). The called process replies to the connection with a ticket request. Server->UserProc $AuthTreq, ~ CH sub s , ~ ID sub s , ~ DN sub s , ~ xxx, ~ xxx$ Here xxx indicates a field whose contents do not matter. The calling process adds its machine's $ID sub c$ and its $UID sub c$ to the request and follows the protocol outlined above to get two tickets from the AS. The process passes the $K sub s$ encrypted ticket plus an authenticator generated by /dev/authenticator from the $K sub c$ ticket to the remote server, which writes them to the kernel to set the user ID (see cons(3)). The server replies with its own authenticator which can be written to the kernel along with the $K sub c$ encrypted ticket to confirm the server's identity (see cons(3)). UserProc->Server $ K sub s lbr AuthTs, ~ CH sub s , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub s , ~ K sub n rbr , ~ K sub n lbr AuthAc, ~ CH sub s , ~ 0 rbr $ Server->UserProc $K sub n lbr AuthAs, ~ CH sub s , ~ 0 rbr$ Challenge Box A user may also start a process on a CPU server from a non Plan 9 machine using commands such as con, telnet, or ftp (see con(1) and ftpfs(4)). In these situations, the user can authenticate using a hand-held DES encryptor. The telnet or FTP daemon first sends a ticket request to the authentication server. If the AS has keys for both the $ID sub c$ and $UID sub c$ in the ticket request it returns a challenge as a hexadecimal number. Daemon->AS $AuthChal, ~ CH sub c , ~ ID sub c , ~ DN sub s , ~ ID sub c , ~ UID sub c $ AS->Daemon $AuthOK$, 16-byte ASCII challenge Otherwise, it returns a null-terminated 64-byte error string. AS->Daemon $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string The daemon relays the challenge to the calling program, which displays the challenge on the user's screen. The user encrypts it and types in the result, which is relayed back to the AS. The AS checks it against the expected response and returns either a ticket or an error. Daemon->AS 16-byte ASCII response AS->Daemon $AuthOK, ~ K sub c lbr AuthTs, ~ CH sub c , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub c , ~ K sub n rbr$ or AS->Daemon $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string Finally, the daemon passes the ticket to the kernel to set the user ID (see cons(3)). Password Change Any user can change the key stored for him or her on the AS. Once again we start by passing a ticket request to the AS. Only the user ID in the request is meaningful. The AS replies with a single ticket (or an error message) encrypted in the user's personal key. The user encrypts both the old and new keys with the $K sub n$ from the returned ticket and sends that back to the AS. The AS checks the reply for validity and replies with an AuthOK byte or an error message. UserProc->AS $AuthPass, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ UID sub c$ AS->UserProc $AuthOK, ~ K sub c lbr AuthTc, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ K sub n rbr$ UserProc->AS $K sub u lbr AuthPass, ~ roman "old password", ~ roman "new password" rbr$ AS->UserProc $AuthOK$ or AS->UserProc $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string Data Base An ndb(2) database file exists for the authentication server. The attribute types used by the AS are hostid and uid. The value in the hostid is a client host's ID. The values in the uid pairs in the same entry list which users that host ID make speak for. A uid value of * means the host ID may speak for all users. A uid value of !user means the host ID may not speak for user. For example: hostid=bootes uid=!sys uid=!adm uid=* is interpreted as bootes may speak for any user except sys and adm. FILES /lib/ndb/auth database file /lib/ndb/auth.* hash files for /lib/ndb/auth SEE ALSO fsession(2), auth(2), cons(3), attach(5), auth(8) Copyright � 1995 Lucent Technologies. All rights reserved. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 15:40:27 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:40:27 +0800 Subject: Plan 9 ordering info [rather expensive] Message-ID: <199801140005.SAA29920@einstein.ssz.com> If you're interested in getting Plan 9 in CD format: Harcourt Brace & Co. 800-782-4479 Plan 9 (full distribution on CD w/ source) ISBN 0-03-017143-1 $367.50 + 8% s/h + state tax (8.25% in Tx) Usualy takes 24 hours to setup an account with them. Apparently they don't ship this through retailers. When I called this morning for up to date info the #3 selection for individuals and professional didn't work. Just select the operator option and be done with it. I advised them their VRU didn't work correctly. If you talk to EJ tell her thanks again. If you just want to play then go to plan9.att.com and get the disk set they offer for playing around. It lacks all source but it will install a minimal system on an Intel box. Should work on most systems though I do suggest that you use a SCSI based system. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From erehwon at dis.org Tue Jan 13 15:57:51 1998 From: erehwon at dis.org (William Knowles) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:57:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: > > >Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country > >willing on hosting data havens. > > Oh yeah? > > It's been a while since we talked about this (at least on the Cypherpunks > list), but a couple of years ago there was much discusson on the CP list > about just what items would be allowable in Anguilla. Vince Cate gave his > assessment, which I found fairly nebulous, in that it appeared the Ruling > Families would allow what they would allow, and not allow what they would > not allow---there seemed to be a lot of ad hoc rulings. If memory serves me right it was because Vince bounced off the Taxbomber site because it offered second passports, camouflage passports, and other products that was considered a fraud, Which to me sounds odd since there is some other company selling most everthing and then some from an .ai domain which Vince's company has the monopoly on handing out .ai domains http://www.ultramec.com.ai > (Given that copies of "Penthouse" are illegal in Anguilla, if I recall this > correctly, and given that gun are illegal, and drugs are illegal, I rather > doubt that Anguilla would happily host "The Aryan Nations Bomb Site," or > "Pedophile Heaven," or "Gun Smuggler's Digest. " Or the even juicier stuff > any "data haven" with any claim to really being a data haven will surely > have.) You also have to wonder how far in the future it will be before the special forces of some banana republic drops in on Vince to blow-up his operation for as he advertises publishing censored information on ones ex-president on the Internet, or for that matter I have yet to see abortion information coming from his servers. What has happened in Anguilla proves that there will be a need for different flavors of datahavens, Different degrees libility that datahaven owners will want to store information on their servers. I would love to open a XXX WWW site in Anguilla pulling in the industry average of $5-10K a month and not pay any taxes there, But it won't happen in Anguilla with the present adminstration! > >And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking > >for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling > >rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just > >give you one just to be rid of future liability. > > Given the willingness of the French to have SDECE sink Greenpeace ships in > neutral ports, how long before a couple of kilos of Semtex are applied to > the underside of these oil rigs? > > Given what happened with "pirate broadcast tankers," the future is not bright. Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? > When the first "oil rig data haven" is found to have kiddie porn, > bomb-making info, and (shudder) material doubting the historicity of the > Holocaust, the U.N. will cluck and the public will cheer when it is boarded > and seized, or simply sunk. > > As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in > meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. > > --Tim May I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that information. William Knowles erehwon at dis.org == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From declan at well.com Tue Jan 13 16:08:33 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:08:33 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Exploratorium, from The Netly News Message-ID: ********** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1685,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 13, 1998 Which Way the Windows by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) Looks like it's upgrade time not just for Microsoft Windows, but also for Microsoft's legal strategy. As engineers frantically debugged the Windows 98 beta last week, senior Microsoft executives roamed Washington, D.C., apologizing for their previous arrogance and saying they had been misunderstood. Call it Microsoft PR 2.0. "What we have not done is communicate" the way the software works, Robert Herbold, Microsoft chief operating officer, told The Netly News last Friday. But will Microsoft's new humility appease federal judge Thomas Penfield Jackson, who already issued a preliminary injunction against the Redmond firm? He's scheduled to hear from the company's lawyers and the Department of Justice this morning. Both have spent a good chunk of the last month complaining about each other: The government says Microsoft violated the judge's order, and Microsoft says the government is "poorly informed." As his attorneys argue the law, Bill Gates will be practicing politics -- a skill that will come in handy if Congress holds more antitrust hearings when it returns in late January. Pundits have made much of Gates's Democratic sympathies, another image he's trying to discard (or at least upgrade). Today Gates is scheduled to sit down for a private chat with technophilic House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Georgia), who will also tour the Microsoft campus. [...] *********** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1686,00.html The Netly News / Afternoon Line January 13, 1998 Microsoft Exploratorium The ugly guts of Microsoft Windows were on display today during a six-hour federal district court hearing in Washington, DC. Attorneys from Microsoft repeatedly pointed at a list of hundreds of .DLL and .EXE files and challenged the government to answer one deceptively simple query: Which files are part of Internet Explorer? The outcome of the case may well turn on the answer to that question, which lies at the heart of the Justice Department's beef with the software giant. Last month Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson ordered Microsoft to stop using its operating system's popularity to force-feed Internet Explorer to computer makers. But, again, which files belong to Internet Explorer? The government's witness ducked the question. "I can't go through your list and say which files are unique to Internet Explorer," replied author and computer consultant Glenn Weadock. "I don't think it's possible or even especially useful to define a list of files and say this is part of, or this is not a part of Internet Explorer." Which Microsoft has argued all along -- their browser is integrated into the operating system. Yanking it out, the company says, would be like amputating a leg: a person could only hobble along, at best. The government views this as a weak excuse, at best. "The court issued a very simple, broad order and Microsoft through its actions defied rather than complied with that order," said Justice Department trial attorney Phillip Malone. The government is asking Judge Jackson to hold Microsoft in contempt and levey a million-dollar-a-day fine. The hearing will continue tomorrow when Microsoft vice president David Cole testifies. - By Declan McCullagh/Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 16:08:51 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:08:51 +0800 Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801140034.SAA30080@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:38:43 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) > It appears to me that your comments to Michael are based on your views > on the undesirability of the way the US judicial system operates in > practice today. Michael is merely offering his expert opinion on how > various questions would likely be interpreted by the current legal > system. Ok. It's not just the US judicial system, include the executive and legislative branches as well. > Screams of "and you think this is a good idea?" and "but what about > the constitution" are misdirected; I strongly suspect each of the > three posters I mention above share your distaste for the redefinition > of meanings and blatant disregard for the fairly clear meanings of the > constitution. You propose speaking softly will resolve the issue? If so why speak at all since that is the softest speech of all. Your position seems to be that if a question is hard then it should be avoided because it might offend the sensibilities? You propose that justice would be better served if it were all masked in innuendo and euphamism? Perhaps, that is no reason not to take them to task when they expound a position using fallacious arguments. Further, Dr. Froomkin is a law professor who *trains* future lawyers. If anyone should be held to task for their actions and views it is those who are deciding what tomorrows world will look like and the people charged with those decisions. There is a fundamental ethical responsibility for conservatism and literalism in those enterprises that simply isn't present in most other 'jobs'. We aren't playing horseshoes or handgrenades - close enough is not good enough. There is a fundamental difference between Lawyers, Doctors, & Soldiers and the vast majority of other human endeavours. In short, they are given the lattitude to decide events that directly and immediatley impact human life. Engineers, Pilots, hamburger flippers, etc. are seldom in a position as a matter of course of their practicing their vocation to decide whether a person will live or die. Because of this exclusion from commen behavioral limitations they should receive *less* latitude and trust in their actions instead of more (which is what is happening today). Ulitmately, when a lawyer fails in their duty to use *every* legal recourse a person sits in a room and gets to listen to the hiss of cyanide drop into the acid. When these people make a mistake there is no 'fixing' it. Sometimes "I'm sorry" just doesn't cut it. It is entirely too important to be complacent or trust without verification (thanks to Pres. Reagan for that one). The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We'll just have to agree to disagree here. If they take the job they take the responsibility to answer for their actions to any and every citizen that asks for it. However inconvenient, uncomfortable, or rude the question may be posed because the *next* citizen they ask to trust them may be the one asking the question. Never forget that but by the grace of God there go you. If you want to trust your future to somebody who 'shuts down' because somebody says "spin doctor bullshit" or strenously defends their views be my guest. Me, I want a MUCH more mature and determined individual handling me and my decendants future. I want to experience that strength of conviction from them not a yellow streak. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From emc at wire.insync.net Tue Jan 13 16:11:03 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:11:03 +0800 Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto Message-ID: <199801140005.SAA00748@wire.insync.net> The UK is replacing the traditional "red boxes" used by ministers to carry their work home with them with high tech laptops. They will use a signet ring and fingerprints to control access to the computer. There will be a "Duress Finger." :) ----- LONDON (AP) -- It's a briefcase even James Bond could love. Britain's more adventurous Cabinet ministers soon will be spiriting laptop computers inside their signature ``Red Box'' briefcases, complete with fingerprint recognition systems and silent alarms. The stacks of papers, briefing documents and constituency correspondence that now go home with each minister in lead-lined red briefcases will be replaced in a few months by a specially designed super-secure laptop -- capable of carrying infinitely more homework. At $4,000 each, the prototypes unveiled Tuesday are seen as a symbol of the modern Britain so often touted by the Labor Party and are being billed as a way to make government work more efficiently. They will not, however, be foisted on ministers who prefer the old-fashioned paper route -- but those holdouts will miss an electronic voice that chirps ``Good morning, minister'' each time the computer is turned on. Each computer, built into the briefcase, will come with a security system that uses a signet ring and fingerprints to control access to the computer. Ministers who eschew jewelry can have the signet ring's smart-card incorporated into another device, such as a keychain or pen. The fingerprint function also requires an alternate finger to be programmed in case the minister cuts the one designated, thereby corrupting the fingerprint. ``It has certainly been billed as very James Bond-ish and I suppose we are 'Q,' '' said Alan Rushworth, managing director of Rhea International, the company that designed the security system, likening himself to the 007 character who outfits James Bond with all his gadgets. ``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' No ``top secret'' documents will be loaded on the computers because such material is seldom transmitted electronically for security reasons, a government spokeswoman said. Even American security experts could not breach the computer's security system, Rushworth boasted. ``The Cabinet office has used its best government hackers for extensive penetration testing and they couldn't break it,'' he said. ``It has also been tried by our cousins on the other side of the Atlantic -- and they couldn't get in either.'' -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Jan 13 16:15:21 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:15:21 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980112191309.0069b3d8@cnw.com> Message-ID: <199801140009.QAA17134@netcom19.netcom.com> > Mad Vlad wants to know: > >>something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something >>that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? >............................................................ > >No. There are, however, immoral scientists. One way to skew the >interpretations of what you write, besides bringing up the subject of >morality, is to describe things in ways which do not correspond to their >actual manner of existence: "science" does not exist without those >individuals who have set themselves to pursue it. hmm, lets see, there were german scientists perfecting the ability to torture people in the death camps. they were practicing science, no? was it immoral? no? was it criminal? criminal but not immoral? >They should bear the >blame if they practice it immorally. they should bear a cost, a penalty, a censure, imposed by their moral peers. (oops, there's that word "should". yikes, I am really slipping. please forgive me for pretending I actually have a point here.) >You again have brought up several issues which can be examined separately >and do not necessarily coexist: well, it does help to have a highly fragmented brain to exist in todays world. one that doesn't think about things like tax money and evil government scientists at the same moment > >There is a book in Objectivist literature which presents the idea of >"context dropping", which is, that in order for some people to function as >if things were normal and that what they're doing is consistent with moral >principles, they must drop a part of their information out of sight, out of >thought, so that their actions appear logically related and make sense - >they eliminate elements from the given context, crucial essentials which >make the difference in its character. People like these might practice >secrecy in keeping information from others, but equally significant, they >also hide things from themselves. this is just basic Freudianism. but I agree its what I'm talking about. >So that's one thing which would explain some scientist's lack of moral >principles in the pursuit of science. Then it must be explained why so >many people aren't complaining about it. Are they insensitive to their >mistreatment, sitting ducks for opportunists? Or maybe these taxpayers are >equally immoral, thinking only about promised benefits, forgetting about >the disadvantage of losing control over the quality of their life? who cares why it is happening? I care, but I also want it stopped. and I want others to care enough to want, and work, to stopping it. >It's possible for some people to override the boundaries of decency, even >if they're otherwise smart enough to pursue science. But what would you >expect cryptographers to do about it? a mere cryptographer can do nothing. a mere anarchist will encourage you not to. a moral human being might become alarmed enough to change their perspective and participate in government, or changing government, in a way other than watching election commercials between the segments of their favorite TV show. an anarchist will deny such an activity is even possible. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 16:41:38 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:41:38 +0800 Subject: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <34b9a145.15127288@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: <199801140026.AAA00469@server.eternity.org> phelix at vallnet.com writes: > On 11 Jan 1998 18:48:24 -0600, Adam Back wrote: > [secret splitting eternity data on servers] > > What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with > "conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever? I expect so. I also expect the spooks will be the ones submitting the child porn to the service. > If he is holding a portion of such contraband, isn't he as liable as > if he was holding the whole article(s)? RICO may make holding a portion worse than the whole thing as it may then be construed as a conspiracy, RICO allowing asset forfeiture. Alternatively holding a portion makes it more difficult for the attacker to determine who the holders are, and to mount a multi-jurisdictional attack (eg seizing disks in multiple countries). Not sure how it would work out in practice. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801140033.AAA00495@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > > Adam Back > > > [autonomous agents, markets for CPU time, disk, comms] > > Has anyone done any work that you are aware of under the Plan 9 os? > With it's fundamental seperation of i/o, process, and file servers > along with it's inherent bidding/scheduling mechanism it seems to me > that a lot of this work has already been done. In addition there are > programs that allow Linux boxes to participate as Plan 9 compliant > file servers. Sounds interesting. I am not familiar with plan 9 besides the enthusings of a colleague reminiscing about the work done at York Univ, UK with plan 9. Java has a lot going for it as a candidate due to portability and code distribution support. I think the only thing missing from java is the bidding and scheduling mechanisms. Your other forwarded message on plan 9 looks interesting also. Adam From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 17:01:52 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:01:52 +0800 Subject: plan 9 features (Re: autonomous agents (fwd)) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801140127.TAA30446@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:33:14 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: plan 9 features (Re: autonomous agents (fwd)) > Sounds interesting. I am not familiar with plan 9 besides the > enthusings of a colleague reminiscing about the work done at York > Univ, UK with plan 9. > > Java has a lot going for it as a candidate due to portability and code > distribution support. I think the only thing missing from java is the > bidding and scheduling mechanisms. Your other forwarded message on > plan 9 looks interesting also. I have been working on a potential distributed data haven model using the Plan 9 architecture. I have finaly amassed enough machines where I can actualy dedicate the i/o, process, and file servers on seperate machines. The problem that I see for the immediate future is getting nodes that don't happen to reside on my premises for additional testing in about a year. I don't have a clue to how to get people to spend $400 bucks for the software (which the ATT license prohibits from commercial use) *and* dedicate several machines to the enterprise. But I'm not going to give up, maybe some folks will volunteer just to do it...:) I took the liberty of forwarding the man page for the auth() function to the cpunks list. It describes the 56-bit DES based authentication mechanism. I personaly don't care for DES so at some point I will be looking to replace that mechanism with an alternative. I also need to take some time and look at porting the Plan 9 file server adapter for Unix to Win95/NT. Either that or I mount the file systems to a suitably enhanced Linux box and then export from there. This would imply that the Win95/NT boxes need to be on the physical network of the Linux box or else excessive opportunities for MITM attacks are present. Not that simply being on the same network provides complete protection either. I hope that OpenNT will provide enough Unix-like features to minimize the port effort. The Plan 9 mechanism also needs to be enhanced in such a way that besides the access token involving encryption the actual transfer of packets are also content encrypted. This has potential compatibility problems with un-enhanced Plan 9 servers that I haven't had a chance to look at. Once I have a system up and running it will allow non-Plan 9 systems to access the resources by using what is called 'hand-held DES encryptors'. Unfortunately, there is not a real description of how this is to be accomplished in a real-world manner. My hope is to have something available sometime this summer that will allow folks to play with it at least in a limited way. If you get the chance and have the resources you should look into at least getting the Plan 9 documents. They're like $150 but call and verify that price since I didn't this morning. Also note, there are now two releases of Plan 9 floating around out there. The only distinction I am aware of is one is the 'old' release and the current is the 'new' release. Don't have a clue as to how to tell them apart or what compatibility problems will exist. My best estimate is that in about a month I will have the resources to install and begin developing the model. I am currently between employers (I don't work at Tivoli-IBM anymore) so I'm job hunting in the Austin area over the next few weeks. I'll make reports to the list on the results as I manage to get results. I don't know about Java on Plan 9, I'll look into it. Take care. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From shamrock at netcom.com Tue Jan 13 17:03:17 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:03:17 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, William Knowles wrote: > Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run > from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? Sealand, about which I wrote about on this list before, was an example that should be studied by the offshore advocates. Based in an old oilrig housing platform, some unlucky investors attempted to establish their own country. They began issuing stamps and passports for their "country". As any reasonable person should have expected, nobody would move their mail and nobody recognized their passports. They went bankrupt. -- Lucky Green PGP encrypted mail preferred From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 13 17:48:25 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:48:25 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113090634.00855c40@popd.ix.netcom.com> >Ryan Lackey: >> A "datahaven country" would have >> to be immune to such tactics -- either having its own strong military >> (China as datahaven) to defend its national interests, political >> connections (Israel?), or enough trade with the US that shutting off >> data commo would be impossible for economic reasons (Singapore?). China _is_ currently a data haven, and the US trade talks have been focussed on getting them to stop it. It's not using the Internet, just CDROMs and snailmail, but it's a huge market... At 03:16 PM 1/13/98 +0000, Ross Anderson wrote: >A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to >index controversial matter. >Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, >the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in >America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in >Germany. But to do that you've got to know what's on your server, and data havens strongly depend on deniability and scalability, so you don't sell those bits on the chips implanted in your head. You could manage your storage in a way that lets users specify where they _don't_ want a given opaque file to be, so they can keep the anti-Foobarian speech out of Foobar, but if you let them specify where they do want it, it's too easy to plant stuff. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 13 17:49:12 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:12 +0800 Subject: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113091745.00856d80@popd.ix.netcom.com> hAt 12:49 AM 1/12/98 EST, Ryan Lackey wrote: >[Tim May wrote:] >> I am surprised, I have to admit, that Ryan is talking so much about raising >> money, getting investors, etc., when no _working model_ of his scheme has >> been deployed for people to play with, find weaknesses in, etc. > >No working model has been deployed by me as of yet. However, most of the >components are "solved problems", with existing working models. Worst case, >it would be possible to accomplish equivalent functionality by linking >these by remailers and hoping no one shuts down the remailers. My guess is that the technical aspects are relatively solvable, at least if the market comes through with reasonable digicash. The technical design can be fun, and lots of pieces exist. The "Don't Quit Your Day Job" (or in this case, school) criteria are harder - doing the business plan that makes a reasonable case that 1 - Service Providers using your model can make money 2 - You personally can make money 3 - Potential investors (including you) can make money funding the development Three obvious business models for you and your investors are 2a - Operate the service yourself, hiring people or renting space in as many countries as you need for safety/reliability 2b - Sell/license the software to commercial providers 2c - Freeware, perhaps with some way for you to get advertising revenue or at least sufficient fame to get consulting business. Which combinations of these options can achieve wide usage depends a lot on your models of users of the system; some of those models are moneymakers, some aren't, some are safe, some are dangerous, and some just attract a sleazy clientele. Here are a few models - public, permanant, non-controversial - the archive business for URLs for academic papers, news services, and possibly for contracts, wills, court documents, etc., which may have some privacy (e.g. an encrypted document showing the owners and keyids) or may not be indexed. This model is easy, and the only reason you need to franchise the business rather than running it yourself is to increase the confidence of the users that the service will be permanent. The obvious financial model is that computers and storage become cheaper every year, so the cost of 100 years of storage is probably only 25-100% higher than 5 years of storage. The costs of retrieval are different from the costs of storage; you may do something like advertising banners to handle frequent-retrieval vs. occasional-retrieval material, or charge directly per hit, etc. - public, permanent, controversial - political manifestos, samizdata, Singaporean chewing-gum recipes, formerly secret documents of governments and businesses. Spreading across multiple jurisdictions is critical here, but governments do cooperate enough that few places are safe for everything. For instance, a Finnish court might order a server to stop publishing copyrighted Scientology documents based on a US court order; anything copyrighted needs to be hosted by non-Berne-convention locations. I don't know how cooperative governments are about libel suits from other jurisdictions; "libel against governments" is clearly a different case from regular personal libel. - non-indexed semi-public medium-term controversial - porn servers, warez, credit reporting services, and the like. By "non-indexed semi-public", I mean things that you can retrieve if you know the name and maybe have a password, but can't retrieve if you don't, and maybe they're encrypted. Some of them may be revenue generators for the storage customer (e.g. they've got advertising banners, or they require digicash to be collected somehow, or maybe there's a password-of-the-month needed to decrypt them, which is sold separately from distribution.) Here you need to worry about attacks, since pictures that are legal in LA or Paris may be illegal in Memphis, Tokyo, or Riyadh, and transaction data that's legal in Anguilla may violate data privacy laws in Berlin or fair credit reporting in Washington, and warez that are gray-market in Beijing may get you jailed in Redmond (while the porn that's legal in Redmond may get you jailed in Beijing.) You also have to worry about targeted attacks - the government that can't stop you from publishing the Anti-Great-Satan Manifesto can go plant child porn and stolen Microsoft warez on your server to get you shut down in your home country. - non-indexed semi-public medium-term non-controversial - encrypted corporate backups and the like. If you've implemented things right, a subpoena for all your files worldwide still won't let anybody find a useful piece of non-indexed data, but can still let anybody with the name and password recover it. Indexing becomes the job of the user; the index for a user is just another data file. This may be where you make the legitimate money, if you can convince enough businesses to use your services, and where you provide the cover traffic for the controversial material. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 17:54:44 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:54:44 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Automating BlackNet Services In-Reply-To: <199801140008.BAA17146@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801140142.BAA00388@server.eternity.org> Scratch Monkey writes: > Here's a way to do an automated "high risk" server, using many of the > same methods as the eternity implementation but with longer delays and > more security for the server. This design ties in pretty well with what I understood Tim May's suggestion to be of using BlackNet to provide eternity services. I notice that you are assuming that all document delivery would be via digital dead-drop (alt.anonymous.messages). Depending on the usage pattern of this service it has the potential to be higher bandwidth than by Eternity USENET design. The BlackNet with dead-drop only scheme you propose will become more expensive in bandwidth than Eternity USENET at the point at which the volume of satisfied document requests being posted to USENET for different recipients exceeds the volume required to repost the traffic at the desired update rate. This is because you may have multiple requests for the same document, all of which must be posted to alt.anonymous.messages. One thing you could do to reduce this overhead would be to combine requests for the same document. To do this you could add an extra delay to satisfying requests to increase the chances of accumulating more requests for the same document. Alternatively, documents which were sent out within the last 24 hours or so could have just the bulk symmetric key encrypted for the subsequent recipients sent together with a message-id. (A separated multiple crypto recipient block). A more subtle problem you would probably want to address with this design is that you don't really want anonymous requested documents to be linkable, so you would need to do stealth encoding of the messages. This tends to be more complex for multiple recipients, but it is doable, and is made easier by standardising on public key size. In general I think I consider my Eternity USENET design more secure than your design and of similar overhead depending on whether the usage pattern results in lower bandwidth. I make this claim because users are offered better security with E-USENET because they are completely anonymous, and don't need to submit requests. They can passively read E-USENET, perhaps on a university campus, or with a satellite USENET feed. The readers are much harder to detect. This is significant because remailers are complex to use, and the users should be assumed to be less technically able (ie more likely to screw up remailer usage). Publisher anonymity is of basically the same security. A lower bandwidth alternative, to either E-USENET or what you have termed Automated BlackNet alternative is therefore to send messages via use-once mixmaster remailer reply blocks of the sort used by some nymservers. Clearly this is also lower security because the user must creating reply blocks which ultimately point back to himself. However the performance win is big. With this architecture BlackNet can win significantly over E-USENET because the volume is reduced to just indexes of available documents. Also I consider indexes are probably low enough risk for people to mirror on the web or cache on the web or whatever. My E-USENET prototype design has a separate index mechanism. (I understand there is some magic inside mixmaster which prevents packet replay, which helps avoid message flood attacks, though didn't locate the code fragment responsible for this functionality when I examined the sources.) Also I found your use of hashes and passwords so that the server does not necessarily know what it is serving interesting. I have similar functionality in my prototype E-USENET implementation. I mainly included the functionality because the prototype is also being used as an publically accessible eternity USENET proxy, to allow the operator to marginally reduce risks. I think this approach is of marginal value, in that the attacker will be easily able to compile an index from the same information as users. This is really a form of secret splitting: the key is one part, and the data the other part. The key can be considered to be part of the URL. > Both the client and server software should be trivial to write, and in > fact I am working on that now. The server is partially written, but I am > at a handicap because I do not have access to usenet at this time. If > anyone knows of some canned code (preferably sh or c, but perl would work) > that will perform functions such as "Retrieve list of articles in > newsgroup x" and "Retrieve article number y", a pointer would be nice. http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/ I have done most of the work already I think. What you are trying to do is so similar that you should be able to acheive what you want with some light hacking of my perl code. For testing purposes I am in the same position as you; dialup ppp connection and linux machine. What I did was to implement both newspool access code, and NNTP access code. For local testing I just create a dummy news-spool. The eternity distribution comes with a few documents in this dummy news spool. A real local news spool would work also. Then you can simulate everything you want offline. You can change the config file to switch to an open access NNTP news-server at any time for a live test. All the code to read USENET is there, and to scan chosen NNTP headers, etc. I would highly recommend perl as a rapid prototyping language. What you see took 3 days (long days, mind, motivation was at an all time high around then). Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 17:55:58 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:55:58 +0800 Subject: (fwd) Automating BlackNet Services Message-ID: <199801140147.BAA00399@server.eternity.org> Scratch Monkey, a nym, described this BlackNet variant on the eternity list(*), which raises some interesting issues I think. I am currently forwarding eternity discussion backwards and forwards between the lists and adding Cc's on my replies. Adam (*) To subscribe see http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/ there is a CGI form to subscribe, or send message with body "subscribe eternity" to majordomo at internexus.net. ------- Start of forwarded message ------- To: eternity at internexus.net From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Organization: Replay Associates, L.L.P. Subject: (eternity) Automating BlackNet Services Sender: owner-eternity at internexus.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Adam Back wrote: > This suggests that another approach would be to have two classes of > services. Users of high risk documents can put up with 24 hour turn > around, and lower risk documents can be served by an alternate > service, intermediate risk documents can exist by using low risk > resources until detection. Here's a way to do an automated "high risk" server, using many of the same methods as the eternity implementation but with longer delays and more security for the server. For now I am calling this scheme (which is not much more than an automated participant in the BlackNet scheme) ABNS, for Automated BlackNet Server. 1) Server program resides on host with large disk and full news feed. 2) Server program watches alt.anonymous.messages. 3) Alice anonymously posts data to alt.anonymous.messages, in a format similar to eternity documents. However, the data would typicaly be encrypted to the public key(s) of the 4) Server notices the message, processes it and stores the data. 5) Bob anonymously posts a request for a document to alt.anonymous.messages. 6) Server notices the request, and anonymously posts a public key to alt.anonymous.messages along with a statement that the requested document is available. 7) Bob notices the post from the server, and anonymously posts a second request to alt.anonymous.messages, this time encrypted with the server's public key. This second request could include Bob's public key. 8) The server notices and decrypts the second request, and anonymously posts the requested document to alt.anonymous.messages, encrypted with Bob's public key if one was provided. The reason for steps 6 and 7 are to prevent multiple servers from responding to the same request with (potentialy) very large files. Of course, if Bob knew the data was available from a particular ABNS, he could skip steps 5 and 6. Both the client and server software should be trivial to write, and in fact I am working on that now. The server is partially written, but I am at a handicap because I do not have access to usenet at this time. If anyone knows of some canned code (preferably sh or c, but perl would work) that will perform functions such as "Retrieve list of articles in newsgroup x" and "Retrieve article number y", a pointer would be nice. So far, this is not too exciting, but the addition of a couple of extra technologies could make it very usefull... If the "Steganographic File System" being proposed by Ross Anderson comes to fruition, the ABNS could recieve a filename and password as part of each submission, and then promptly 'forget' them. In this way, not only does the server not have access to the contents of the file, it doesn't even know what files it has! Retrieval requests would include the appropriate information to enable the server to fetch the data. The addition of digital cash to the picture would make it really viable, because the server could charge for storage, or retrieval, or both. So picture this: Alice has some data she wants to sell. She encrypts this data to the public key of an ABNS, along with the filename and password to be used for file access and an amount of cash sufficient to pay for storage costs for maybe 6 months. She would also specify a 'value' for the data, which the ABNS will charge for access to this data and of which Alice will recieve a cut. She could also send a small advertisement (for which here storage fees should be minimal) as a separate document, and give it a value of zero. The server decrypts the message and verifies the cash. It then stores the file in the designated filename/password location in the SFS (stego file system). It makes a hash of the filename/password, and stores this hash in a 'table of contents' file that would also contain: - - the 'paid-until' date for the data. - - the public key of the submitter. - - the 'price' for the data It would then forget the filename and password. Bob learns of the existance of the data (how? I haven't thought about that yet but it doesn't seem to me that it would present much of a problem) and wishes to purchase it. He sends a message to the server by encrypting to the server's public key and posting to alt.anonymous.messages. In his message he includes the filename/password of the data he wants, along with an appropriate amount of cash and Bob's public key. The server decrypts Bob's request: - - First, it pockets the cash. (Everything else is just to keep customers) - - It then creates a hash based on the filename/password of the data that Bob is requesting. - - It looks up that hash in the table of contents file. - - If it is not found, it anonymously posts a message encrypted to Bob's public key indicating that the data is not available, but that Bob now has a line of credit at this particular ABNS. :) - - If it _does_ find the hash in the contents file, it checks the paid-until date. - - If the file is not paid up, the server treats it as if the file were not present (and in fact, it deletes the file at this time, something it could not do without the filename/password that Bob supplied). - - If the file is present, and storage fees are paid up, and Bob has enclosed enough cash (or has enough credit), the ABNS accesses the file in the stego filesystem and anon-posts it to Bob's public key. - - The server then forgets the filename/password, but remembers the hash. - - Of the 'fee' collected from Bob, the server allocates it as follows: - 70% is kept. - 10% is credited to the hash retrieved by Bob, to extend it's "Paid up" time. This means that documents that bring in a lot of money can pay for thier own storage costs, without the contributer needing to keep paying. - 20% is encrypted to the public key listed in the table of contents and posted to alt.anonymous.messages, as a royalty to the contributor. Of course, this is just one possible policy for the server to have. Market forces will shape the eventual pricing scheme. I'm actualy not sure if such a system would be used, because Alice may have no motivation to send her data to an ABNS when she can run the server herself and take 100% of the money. Comments on this aspect of operation would be appreciated. Either way, the same software could be used. I hope to post initial versions within a couple of weeks, assuming I can hack myself some account with nntp access for testing. -Scratch Monkey- 85d8e7d860504ba9e90527e7e89210d7 This is a new persistant nym. PGP key(s) will be posted soon, and I will verify that the keys belong to the same person who posted this message by providing the string that produces the md5 hash above. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 13 18:02:19 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:02:19 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980110202657.009336a0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113151945.00856dd0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Of course you _have_ that right; I was writing in response to the assertion that the _Constitution_ says you have it, when in fact it not only says no such thing, but the Supremes have occasionally ruled substantially differently. I agree with Jim Choate that the 9th and 10th leave room for all sorts of rights that nobody in their right mind would disagree with but which the government keeps trying to take away anyway.... but that's no excuse for claiming that things are explicitly stated there when they're not. At 04:40 PM 1/11/98 -0400, The Sheriff wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >At 8:26 PM -0800 1/10/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* >>>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to >>>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. >> >>I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; >>you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. >>Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s >>(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states >>could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; >>it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, >>but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business >>is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments >>if they couldn't be interfering in business.) > >Firstly, something being long-established doesn't make it right. >SO, let's look at it this way, regarding the freedom of association. > >You have the freedom to associate with whom you choose, don't you >think? It's not in the constitution, but you would throw a fit if >Uncle Sam told you that it was illegal for you to go play baseball >with little Billy if little Billy was black and you were white. > >AND, in my not so humble opinion, If you have the freedom to play >with little Billy, then you have the freedom to tell little Billy >to go fuck himself because you refuse to play with "niggers." Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Tue Jan 13 18:05:13 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:05:13 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: [...] > And I think implementing the slower-but-no-breakthroughs approach (Blacknet > or variations) has some advantages. It may be many years before we need to > be in the corner of the graph that is "large amounts of data--very fast > retrieval--very secure." > > Most candidates for untraceable/secure storage and retrieval are NOT in > this corner, yet. (Kiddie porn may be, but whistleblowing and scientific > information are not.) You know, I think we have been missing one use for eternerty services. Its a cheap reliable off site backup system. You simply encrypt your data, and throw it into the system. In addtion a large number of comperise useing the system like this will become a type of hostage against interference. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLwHFKQK0ynCmdStAQE9MQP/WZitSpCzVnx/rYX9qvkf80ZapgE1bws4 MjSmkI5tVpEg5uJ2Rqq5lb6xBzMPUtJ9jgBsUyAcYOH07k8Ycg5NW3UYrnQVNiz4 /h7qENmAjmErONhIZBN+NYd69q/v7q+d3WyQTJif74k5T0cwrfHagnzbWcusNYYt 4iA/pO1SCHU= =oTNd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jim.burnes at ssds.com Tue Jan 13 18:11:10 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:11:10 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) In-Reply-To: <19971226.145900.12766.0.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> Message-ID: <34BC1B0C.FB57F941@ssds.com> The Sheriff wrote: > > At 8:26 PM -0800 1/10/98, Bill Stewart wrote: > >>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* > >>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to > >>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. > > > >I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; > >you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. > >Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s > >(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states > >could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; > >it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, > >but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business > >is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments > >if they couldn't be interfering in business.) > > Firstly, something being long-established doesn't make it right. > SO, let's look at it this way, regarding the freedom of association. These arguments are all smoke and mirrors unless we figure out where authority lies (? ;-) As far as I'm concerned freedom of association is implied by freedom of assembly. To assemble in this context obviously means to associate. If it doesn't, then what the hell is it? To come together in order to work things out? Is that association? In the context of assembling for commerce, commerce is just assembling and agreeing on the terms of free association. The authority of a Supreme Court was challenged by Thomas Jefferson, who speculated that if such a court were the ultimate arbiter of justice, then a tyranny of the judiciary would follow. So who ultimately judges? I should think having a federal body judge the constitutional limitations of the federal government is an obvious conflict of interest. In any case, anyone willing to read the constitution and do just a little bit of homework will find out that the constitution is a *limitation* of the powers of the federal government, not a broad grant. This design of the Constitution was seriously undermined when Roosevelt stacked the Supreme Court in order to judge that Social (in)Security was constitutional. In their decision they decided that the welfare clause was a broad grant of power to federal government. This flies in the face of more than 100 years of judicial readings of the constitution, not to mention logic. If the federal government was given a broad grant of powers in the Constitution, why did it outline only specific powers? (In fact, exactly this argument was put forth when Madison(?) was questioned on the intent of the welfare clause -- didn't the Supreme Court justices, with their intellectual clout bother to research the writing of the designers of said document?) [little know fact: Earl Warren, noted Supreme Court "Justice" was the designer of the Japanese-American Prison camps in the US during WWII] If the US Constitution is a contract with the people on the scope and nature of their government, then I at least want an outside arbiter of that contract. All references to Spooner's "The Constitution of No Authority" aside, if it is not a contract then were living on the other side of the looking glass, Alice. Before someone starts spouting off on "our living constitution"(TM) someone please tell me why they didn't strike out the conflicting parts of the constitution when they "grew" it? Something like "amendments number one, two, five, nine and ten should be amended to read "unless we say otherwise". Alterations of public law almost always specify the previous laws that are struck down. In fact, if memory serves, the repeal of prohibition specifically alters the amendment that created it. (It is left as an excercise to the reader to figure out why prohibition needed an amendment to the constitution while prohibition of other mind altering substances did not ;-) Have a day. Jim From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 13 18:21:25 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:21:25 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801140246.UAA31006@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:55:24 -0700 > From: Jim Burnes > Subject: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) > (It is left as an excercise to the reader to figure out why > prohibition > needed an amendment to the constitution while prohibition of > other > mind altering substances did not ;-) What amazes me is that such groups as NORML and other pro-drug organizations have not had their lawyers raise this issue. As far as I can tell nobody has *ever* raised this issue in regards to the drug prohibitions. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Tue Jan 13 18:22:32 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:22:32 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801131244.HAA22857@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: > I believe the web or the internet as a whole > are now large and important enough to Joe Sixpack that shutting them off > to stop illegal activity is infeasible -- I do not agree that USENET > is. I think 2 weeks of press in the US about "USENET, the network used > by kiddie porn photographers to trade photos, must be shut down" would be > enough to shut usenet in the US down. I beleave that this is quite unlikely. Usenet is infact bigger then the internet as a whole. Shutting down usenet would be a difficalt task, how are you going to convinvince all thouse peaple who like usenet to give it up. In fact how are you going to convinve copernise like zippo and altoba who are dedcated to providing usenet connectiverty to give up there primery money sorce. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLwLyqQK0ynCmdStAQFOuwP+LpitV9bYaMMSvcMN7PkLX+UfpsPnoCwH mNGueb3UV2Nf4h692SFcwy+bYrLhQRU0pZMuk3INNpUuVQ2CERBa29aSNfas9OiD e7u8LHziHH6c9wuwLpTf4ZbZ3cxvhkXHnWSaM/IPJ+pdlvJBd5koiFHyqmxLsLwF uok0uXOGkaQ= =C5IV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Tue Jan 13 18:32:51 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:32:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Thomas Womack wrote: > I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; For eggample? Rembour, alot illegality is about cultural hangups and tabbos. Which change when thay are in diffrent contexts. [...] >I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort > of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. I beleave that there are places where the distrabution of child porn is legal even if its production isn't. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLwOBaQK0ynCmdStAQFbCQQAhi+blZZvPbAPjvUSLaQdH9bmyPnfwEn1 ePTcGdHR80qv9j7P9o+WfsvaSWYnKY9pW2HttHbfa5aq09VCS245Q3wwD5e4zGU2 rrqNLT9bP9pimqKsyjcjVS8PoFwXCJPdspjgCDL3zDBhoRwhGyvpljt8ufE4yHsC 3ZO5IKwhVcY= =+4iF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 13 19:12:02 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:12:02 +0800 Subject: unsolved billing problem In-Reply-To: <06a0d1013010d18UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> Message-ID: "CLAUD W WELCH" writes: > I cancelled my membership prior to the end of two days. i would like a > refund. ME T00!!! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 13 19:17:42 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:17:42 +0800 Subject: Rincin AP Message-ID: <199801140309.EAA12439@basement.replay.com> Forward from Terrorism list: From: JCHV72A at prodigy.com (MR JAMES P DENNEY) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:45:44, -0500 To: TERRORISM at mediccom.org Subject: RICIN ALERT Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement Merced/Mariposa Narcotic Task Force RE: RICIN Alert The Sacramento Regional Office of the Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement has offered this alert to all it's personnel: "The following alert has been confirmed and is being shared throughout the law enforcement and intelligence community. This alert advises that nationwide trend among drug traffickers is to "bait" law enforcement officers with a white powder called RICIN. RICIN is a derivative of Castor beans and looks like powder methamphetamine. It is highly toxic and if it contacts human skin, it is fatal. The death process takes several days, depending upon the dosage, and is almost impossible to detect during an autopsy. Forensic experts advise that if you field test RICIN in the Scott Reagent Kit, it will foam and bubble extensively. The test will also produce a gas that is very similar to mustard gas and can also be lethal if inhaled. RICIN is 6,000 times more lethal than cyanide and there is no antidote. Symptoms of contact exposure to RICIN are: Fever, cough, weakness, and hypothermia, progressing to dangerously low blood pressure, heart failure and death. Due to this situation, in the event of suspect drug seziures, do not come into direct skin contact with any powdered substances, and exhibit caution of field testing any powdered substances." We are forwarding this advisory to all California EMS Agencies and recommend that each agency contact the local hospitals in their area. We are unaware if RICIN can be detected on a toxicological exam. There is a potential for someone, other than law enforcement, to become contaminated with this substance. ----- From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 13 19:20:56 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:20:56 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8gZ0ie12w165w@bwalk.dm.com> William Knowles writes: > If memory serves me right it was because Vince bounced off the Taxbomber > site because it offered second passports, camouflage passports, and other > products that was considered a fraud, Which to me sounds odd since there > is some other company selling most everthing and then some from an .ai > domain which Vince's company has the monopoly on handing out .ai domains But that company was written about by some journalist, so Vince pulled its plug to avoid bad publicity. Vince also indicated (in response to my query) that he wouldn't support content that provoked denial-of-service attacks (such as the Spanish attack on the pro- basque independence web page0 > > As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in > > meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. > > > > --Tim May > > I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted > datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or > hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that > information. Is it possible to make it cryptographically hard to determine where the data is stored? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From emc at wire.insync.net Tue Jan 13 20:00:42 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:00:42 +0800 Subject: Ricin AP Message-ID: <199801140354.VAA01308@wire.insync.net> Anonymous writes: > This alert advises that nationwide trend among drug traffickers is to > "bait" law enforcement officers with a white powder called RICIN. > RICIN is a derivative of Castor beans and looks like powder > methamphetamine. It is highly toxic and if it contacts human skin, it > is fatal. The death process takes several days, depending upon the > dosage, and is almost impossible to detect during an autopsy. Ricin is a ribosome-inactivator, which inhibits protein synthesis at the cellular level by binding to and damaging the 50S ribosomal subunit. This is eventually and irreversibly fatal, although not immediately so, and the symptoms which occur in poisoned individuals are generally misdiagnosed by internists as a wide variety of other ailments. The most famous case of the use of ricin was when Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markow was assasinated by the KGB with an umbrella jab which left a microscopic porous metal sphere tainted with ricin in his leg. He died in agony a number of days later. The lethal dose of ricin in humans is microscopic, and it is a poison of choice in cancer therapy, since it destroys cells and patients are unlikely to have previous immunological exposure to it. It can be bound to monoclonal antibodies, or other carriers, to target only specific cells. > Due to this situation, in the event of suspect drug seziures, do not > come into direct skin contact with any powdered substances, and > exhibit caution of field testing any powdered substances." LOL! Like one should come in contact with ANY unknown chemical substance, powdered or not. Remember that researcher who just died after accidently getting a drop of Dimethyl Mercury on a gloved hand, not to mention the one who got a speck in her eye and succumbed to monkey herpes a couple of weeks later, despite intensive antiviral therapy. And that's not even mentioning other fun things like Thallium, and Organophosphate nerve agents, or the use of cellular penetrators like DMSO as carriers for contact poisons. Ricin isn't the only nasty substance one could use to keep jackbooted thugs out of the marijuana plants. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Tue Jan 13 20:11:48 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:11:48 +0800 Subject: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... In-Reply-To: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: Hmmm ... this could turn out to be more interesting than the gun nutz threads ... On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Sir, > > Do you accept that the Constitution of the United States of America is the > supreme law of the land and therefore the ultimate legal authority within > its borders? > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | > | violent revolution inevitable. | > | | > | John F. Kennedy | > | | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage at ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| > > From anon at anon.efga.org Tue Jan 13 21:45:46 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:45:46 +0800 Subject: TLS implementations Message-ID: Don't you know the place where there is anyone TLS implementations (source code)? Teach to me if it is here because it is known. Thank you very much. From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 22:38:34 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:38:34 +0800 Subject: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <34b9a145.15127288@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: At 4:26 PM -0800 1/13/98, Adam Back wrote: >phelix at vallnet.com writes: >> On 11 Jan 1998 18:48:24 -0600, Adam Back wrote: >> [secret splitting eternity data on servers] >> >> What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with >> "conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever? > >I expect so. I also expect the spooks will be the ones submitting the >child porn to the service. > >> If he is holding a portion of such contraband, isn't he as liable as >> if he was holding the whole article(s)? > >RICO may make holding a portion worse than the whole thing as it may >then be construed as a conspiracy, RICO allowing asset forfeiture. This is why I favor systems where there is no way to localize the holder of data. I'm unpersuaded that any of the Eternity proposals avoid this. If _any_ site holding data is localized (traced, identified), it _will_ come under legal, financial, or physical attack. If a "network of nodes" is the server, that network and any identifiable nodes in it will be attacked. It doesn't matter whether the precise server of a precise piece of data can be pinpointed. (Think of the Gestapo, the Inquisition, the Ayotollah, the BATF, and ask whether they would care if the exact machine had been isolated?) (Dangers of Eternity servers, a note: Also, the developers of such nodes, and such software, will be major targets, no matter where they live. In fact, how will source code for Eternity nodes be checked? It's hard enough checking PGP source code, and no one even bothers to try to check remailer source code for backdoors, bugs, etc. (no impugning of Mixmaster, but I see no mention of people checking it, etc.). My point is a simple one: even if Ryan Lackey leaves the country, as he says he plans to do, various entities will probably either harass him, or, more ominously, get him to modify the source code, to put "barium" in it, and all sorts of such things. Just a thought. Until I see proof that these suspicions are wrong, I can't get excited about any of the Eternity schemes. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 22:42:27 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:42:27 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:30 PM -0800 1/13/98, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: >You know, I think we have been missing one use for eternerty services. >Its a cheap reliable off site backup system. You simply encrypt your >data, and throw it into the system. Bandwidth. Think about it. Most of us are backing up on DATs or CD-ROMs. But our Net connections are running at 30-50 KB/sec. Do some quick calculations! Plus, Bandwidth Part II: When N people begin using Eternity for this kind of backup.... In any case, this was discussed a few years ago, so we're not "missing" this use. (Gelernter's Linda system touched on similar uses.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 13 22:47:52 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:47:52 +0800 Subject: plan 9 features (Re: autonomous agents (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199801122044.OAA22802@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 4:33 PM -0800 1/13/98, Adam Back wrote: >Java has a lot going for it as a candidate due to portability and code >distribution support. I think the only thing missing from java is the >bidding and scheduling mechanisms. Your other forwarded message on >plan 9 looks interesting also. I haven't checked on them in the last few months, but "Electric Communities" (www.communities.com) was doing some interesting work on adding security and market mechanism extensions to Java, in a superset language they called "E." Many Cypherpunk list members, past and present worked on aspects of this, including Chip Morningstar (one of the founders), Doug Barnes, Norm Hardy, Bill Frantz, Mark Miller, etc. They can speak up and say more. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 13 23:47:35 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:47:35 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980112191309.0069b3d8@cnw.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113222020.0088f100@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 07:14 PM 1/12/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: > Mad Vlad wants to know: >>something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something >>that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? >............................................................ > >No. There are, however, immoral scientists. One way to skew the Depends. [#invoke Godwin's Law] Consider the Nazi studies done on human susceptibility to freezing, poisons, torture, etc., and the followon work done by various evil empires. Some of it was just done for fun, but some of it _was_ real science, with hypotheses and experiments, and there's only so much research you can do into the resistence of the body to serious damage without actually damaging live bodies, most accidental damage to human bodies isn't done in sufficiently instrumented environments to be useful, and it's just _damn_ hard to get good volunteers these days. Did most of that work rate as "immoral science" - I'd say so. Now, some of it has uses outside the torture business, but the primary customer of the work on freezing was the nuclear bomber forces of some of the larger evil empires, which wanted to know how much risk they could take destroying their competitors' motherlands. Sure, part of the goal is to protect their employees, but even that is primarily to increase their ability to destroy their enemies' civilians, which is pretty morally dicey even if your enemy is evil. A few users like oil companies have workers in the Arctic, and most moral organizations are more concerned about preventing accidents and minimizing risks to workers than getting away with as much damage to their workers as they can; there are still some legitimate uses of the knowledge like how to do medical care for freezing-related accident victims, or extreme situations like nuclear power-plant disaster cleanup. But not a lot. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From frantz at netcom.com Wed Jan 14 00:19:04 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:19:04 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801131602.RAA06619@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: I wonder if it is the intention of those who support a ban on human cloning to prevent my friend who lost his forearm in the Vietnam War from having a new one grown and attached? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From ptrei at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 00:28:47 1998 From: ptrei at hotmail.com (Peter trei) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:28:47 +0800 Subject: Neat quote from Ron Rivest Message-ID: <19980114075735.18375.qmail@hotmail.com> At the RSA Data Security Conference: "There are probably more people in this room working on crime *prevention* than in the entire Federal Government." -- Ron Rivest quoted (hopefully correctly) by Peter Trei ptrei at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 14 00:28:49 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:28:49 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:51 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run >from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? What Lucky said. (And read up on the scam ^H^H^H^H scheme called "Oceania," the floating libertarian non-state. And Minerva, and so on.) .... >I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted >datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or >hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that >information. "Room for," certainly. "Economic incentive for," apparently not. Look, if you can wave a magic want and give us "massively distributed data havens on oil rigs, barges,....," I'll be the first to cheer. But the factors I described, and Lucky described, are why it would be a foolish investment for anyone to build even the first one, let alone the numbers you are contemplating. Wishing won't make it so. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 14 00:58:46 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:58:46 +0800 Subject: Spam In-Reply-To: <19980111.045850.4894.7.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114004615.00896100@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 04:02 PM 1/11/98 -0400, The Sheriff wrote: >My interest isn't simply in getting rid of the spam. "Empty >Trash" is a pretty simple concept on Eudora. What I want to do >is fight the flow -- and while there may be as many as 10 spammers >per ISP out there, every spam I do something about is one less >server that accepts messages for routing that don't come from one >of their accounts. There's some interesting technical work being done at maps.vix.com, by Paul Vixie and friends. They've got a Realtime Blackhole List server which kills any email coming from any site they know that permits third-party smtp relays. They're a bit on the aggressive side (their current implementation doesn't provide a convenient local override list, so if you install their system in your sendmail.cf, you lose email from anybody they block until _they_ decide the site has rehabilitated itself.) I learned about them the hard way (they blackhole ix.netcom.com, so my mail to the pgp-users list now gets rejected. Sigh.) Their web page says they'd rather throw out a few extra babies to get rid of all this excess bathwater. After all, they're not just killing spam, they're killing all mail you receive from any system that's easy to spam through, whether it's spam or not. Getting rid of third-party relays is a good start, and you don't need to get rid of _all_ of them to make spamming much harder; if you convince most of the big internet services to turn them off, you force the spammers to go searching for relays, which is not only more work, but if there are a number of trap systems waiting for them they may get caught. Losing third-party relay is rather a shame - the Internet used to be a cooperative system where everybody tried to get mail through, and avoiding third-party relay is more complex if your users have lots of different domain names (e.g. www.foo.com hosted at bigisp.net). It also pushes the net more in the direction of all mail needing to have True Names, which is a Bad Thing, and decreases robustness of the overall system. Personally, I've found it more trouble now that my employer doesn't do third-party relay, since I need different configurations for Eudora and Netscape Mail depending on whether my laptop is on the LAN at work or dialed into my ISP from home (Win95 IP appears to be too dumb to let me configure a hosts file that points "mailhost" to the appropriate IP address, and Netscape seems to keep all its options in the Registry rather than accepting command-line options like Eudora does.) Another approach to reducing spam is of course to keep contacting ISPs to kill off bad users, and to get ISPs to refuse spamhauses as customers. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Jan 14 01:12:20 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:12:20 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980113222020.0088f100@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801140905.BAA28777@netcom13.netcom.com> [nazi death studies] >Did most of that work rate as "immoral science" - I'd say so. uh huh but we have a problem. I thought "technology is neutral". hmmmmm, maybe technology != science.....? >A few users like oil companies have workers in the Arctic, and >most moral organizations are more concerned about preventing accidents >and minimizing risks to workers than getting away with >as much damage to their workers as they can; there are still >some legitimate uses of the knowledge like how to do medical >care for freezing-related accident victims, or extreme situations >like nuclear power-plant disaster cleanup. But not a lot. interesting book on this a friend told me about: "toxic sludge is good for you" -- describes for example how many oil companies are creating an effective *facade* based on very aggressive PR campaigns. if anyone wants good info on the state of our times, and how our government has been hijacked.... check this one out. it shows that as savvy as "you" think you are (you is anybody here), we're all living in a gingerbread fantasy world created by the mass media-- even when you're not tuned into it. From snn at dev.null Wed Jan 14 01:34:45 1998 From: snn at dev.null (Sacramento Nutly News) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:34:45 +0800 Subject: Jailhouse Rock Message-ID: <34979907.AD7@dev.null> [SACRAMENTO NUTLY NEWS--byline Chainsaw McCullagh]IN AN EXCLUSIVE interview at the Sacramento County Jail, former UC-Bezerkeley math professor, Theodore "Don't Call Me Teddy" Kaczynski, spoke (on the condition that his anonymity would be preserved) to a Nutly News reportwhore, a drug-smuggling prison guard, and a few inmates sharing a crack pipe in an adjoining cell. "Selective prosecution...", Kaczynski said, pausing to let the Nutly News reportwhore pass the pipe back to the far side of the cell bars, and turn on his tape recorder. "Selective prosecution," TK continued, "will be the basis of the defense I plan to raise." "A defense," he added, "which I expect will help to swing public support over to my side during my trial and subsequent execution." Seeing the skeptical glances exchanged between the reportwhore, the guard, and the crackheads in the adjoining cell, Kaczynski proceeded to explain that the American public was growing increasingly tired of sacrificial lambs being thrown to the prosecutorial wolves on the basis of patently illegal discrimanitory prejudices. "Allowing Bad BillyC in WashDC, To walk free around town, Despite Foster and Brown..." Kaczynski rapped, until noticing the icy glares from the pigmentation criminals in the next cell, then continuing in a normal cadence, "...is one thing, but prosecuting the mother of the fat broad for child abuse, while allowing Karen Carpenter's mother to walk..." The reportwhore and the jail guard, passing the crack pipe back and forth, also passed a glance that confirmed they were beginning to see the true danger involved in allowing TeddyK a legitimate trial. The whole American justice system was based on the outcome of the case being pretty well set in stone by the time it reached a jury, if a trial became unavoidable. The jury rigging process and the pretrial motions were comparable to the bidding in a bridge game, with the actual playing of the cards during the trial being mostly for show. Of course, in high-profile cases that are a must-win for government prosecutors and their behind-the-scenes handlers, the bidding process is mostly to decide how much the defendant's lawyers will be compensated for selling their client quietly down the river. McVeigh's lawyers got $15 million and a guarantee of future government largess, in return for making certain that their client got a defense that most people wouldn't find acceptable if it were their dog that was facing being 'put down' by the Feds. Legal rulings by the judge were geared toward allowing the defense team the freedom to use any tactic or evidence which would not help their client's case, or hurt the government's case. Nichol's trial was geared toward actually allowing the defense team to present a moderately legitimate defense, to preserve the pretense of justice, while risking little chance of justice ultimately triumphing. Kaczynski's trial was slated to be another quick and easy slam-dunk, with the legal eagles moving their playing pieces around in a grand game designed to ensure everyone's future reputation and earning power while maintaining the charade that Truth and Justice still play some minor part in the whole process. The key to the House of Cards known as the American Judicial System, however, is convincing the defendant and/or the public, that the game is not totally rigged from beginning to end. When either the defendant or the jury cannot be controlled, the House of Cards begins tumbling rather rapidly. The key to controlling the defendant is to convince him/her that their legal representatives are sincerely acting in their client's best interest, and are not selling him/her out, in the slightest way, in order to further their career and guarantee not missing their tee-time for their afternoon golf game with the prosecutor. The key to controlling the jury is to make certain that they are not allowed to view any evidence, or hear any point of view, which runs contradictory to the outcome which has been preordained by following 'established legal procedure.' The danger is not in Theodore Kaczynski claiming innocence...the danger is in him questioning why he, McVeigh and Bell are being prosecuted, while Clinton, Nixon and Bush were/are not. The danger is in him asking why the mother of the girl who died of Chatelaine-Incorrect obesiety is a criminal worthy of prosecution, while the mother of the girl who died of BarbieDoll-Approved anorexia is guilty of NoCrime. The danger is in asking why a teenage foreigner was prosecuted for not recognizing the signs of a broken wrist and a cracked skull in a child, while the parents, trained adult physicians, were not. The danger is in TK asking why tobacco executives, known to have participated in the deaths of millions are allowed to buy their way out of prosecution, while TimmyM and TeddyK are not. The danger is in Terrible TeddyK exercising his freedom of speech and raising socially inacceptable questions during defense of his actions. There is not a day that goes by that someone in America does not kill more people than TK ever dreamed of--individuals, government bureaucrats or corporate executives. The danger is not in Kaczynski proclaiming his innocence, the danger is in him saying, "So the fuck what? It's a predatorial universe. I'm a small fry with a large mouth. The average citizen has killed more people than me just by keeping their mouth shut and enjoying their share of the booty from the murders committed by the government and corporations that the sheeple count on to do their stealing for them." The danger is in arch-demon, Terrible TeddyK, being allowed a free voice to demand being tried alongside the US government soldier who fired a burst of taxpayer-supported bullets into the body of a Somalian mother with her baby in her arms, defending her home against assault by armed forces of foreign governments. The danger that Theodore Kaczynski presents is the same danger which James Dalton Bell represented--unfettered free-speech--uncontolled sound-bytes--a non-approved view of reality. The plain fact is that the world-view sold to us by those who control the mainstream media is so far out of whack with reality that it cannot even withstand verbal assault by StinkBombers, let alone UnaBombers. Who is Theodore Kaczynski? He is a man who has murdered fewer people than Winnie Mandela and countless other 'world leaders'. He is a man who has murdered fewer people than your average street gang leader. He is a man who has murdered fewer people than me--and, quite possibly, you. He is a dangerous man--a man who can't be bought. He is a man whom the government portrayed as someone who must--and who would--be justifiably put to death, after a 'fair' trial. A man who is now being offered a 'plea bargain' for the simple reason that he has demanded his right to speak in his own defense. That cannot be allowed in a judicial system that is built on a House of Cards that depends on its survival for all of the players to tread lightly around the thin walls of reality on which Justice in America is built. The final irony, of course, is that Terrible TeddyK, who only killed a couple of people, was parlayed into a major threat to world peace and individual security by the very people who now wish that they could dismiss him as mentally unstable, for the purpose of allowing him free speech, but mentally responsible, for the purpose of holding responsible for his actions. The final irony is that, in declaring Terrible TeddyK sane enough to execute, their is a danger in portraying him as sane enough to listen to. And the true danger of free speech is that someone may be listening. The final irony is that we, as a society, have deemed that we cannot execute those who are mad, but only those who are sane. We can only hold them responsible if their speech and actions are sane. Snell, Kaczynski, Jesus, TruthMonger...all present the same problem. We can confine them in the rubber-room, or hang them on the cross, but in doing so, we risk validating the truths they claim to speak. The danger is not in the warning contained in their speech--"Don't look back, something might be gaining on you." The danger is that someone--McVeigh, Gus-Peter, Saint Peter, A Cypher- Punk To Be Named Later--might be listening. The danger is that it does not matter if it is McVeigh, with a ton of fertilizer, saying "Something 'big' is going to happen.", or Bell, with a bottle of mercetan, saying, "Something 'small' is going to happen." What matters is that those who have heard and acted on the admonition, "Lock and Load!", are in a position to hear and act on the proclamation that "The Revolution is NOW!" The problem of Theodore Kaczynski will have to be resolved through execution, suicide, or dismissal as a madman. The problem of Clinton, Reno, Mandella, you and I...that will have to be resolved through the denial represented by selective prosecution. From blancw at cnw.com Wed Jan 14 01:49:34 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:49:34 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980114014522.00720408@cnw.com> Bill Stewart wrote, in reference to "immoral science" vs immoral *scientists*: >Depends. [#invoke Godwin's Law] >Consider the Nazi studies done on human susceptibility to freezing, >poisons, torture, etc., and the followon work done by various >evil empires. Some of it was just done for fun, >but some of it _was_ real science, with hypotheses and experiments, [..etc...] ............................................................. I was being picky/particular. Because consider that science does not conduct itself: it is a method developed by scientists, and it is *conducted by* them. They determine what is the right manner in which to conduct their experiments, they figure out how to determine what is valid in terms of proofs. Their findings, to be valid, must relate to the actual nature of things, to reality. But then, being humans, scientists must consider what all of this "means" to us, or about us, upon reflection. If after a time, scientists have come to depend on the "scientific method" (as established by other scientists in the past) to determine what they shall do, how they should proceed, and have given up on doing some of their own current reasoning on methodologies; if they are not sensitive to the meaning or validity of what they do, then this would be to say that it is "science" which is at fault when they inflict torture, for example, rather than those individuals who engage in those experiments. But this is like the tail wagging the dog, or like the typical Nazi excuse that "the State made me do it": "Science determined that the experiment had to be conducted this way, in order to achieve true knowledge; I had no choice." I say it is the scientist who makes the science immoral, if it be judged to be so, not vice-versa. As for the concept of morality, which I'm sure will be the next controversy brought up by someone: It is a difficult thing to pin down what morality/immorality is, because because it is an abstract concept which requires a comprehensive view on humanity, conscience, and concepts of "goodness", and because it is so mixed up with notions from religion and associations with any number of unrelated ideas and concepts. Generally it can be agreed that someone who liberally and insensitively creates pain and destruction upon humans is not "one of us", psychologically. An educator (Montessori) explained it thus: "Good is life; evil is death; the real distinction is as clear as the words." Anything which goes of the direction of life is good (and moral) while anything which goes in the other direction is of the opposite character. "The 'moral sense' ... is to a great extent the sense of sympathy with our fellows, the comprehension of their sorrows, the sentiment of justice; the lack of these sentiments convulses normal life. We cannot become moral by committing codes and their application to memory, for memory might fail us a thousand times, and the slightest passion might overcome us; criminals, in fact, even when they are most astute and wary students of codes, often violate them; while normal persons, although entirely ignorant of the laws, never transgress them, owing to 'an internal sense which guides them'. " Those who have become insensitive to this internal guidance system are generally dangerous, and risky to be around, even if you don't want to identify their inclinations as "immoral". .. Blanc From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 14 01:55:30 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:55:30 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980112191309.0069b3d8@cnw.com> Message-ID: At 10:20 PM -0800 1/13/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >Consider the Nazi studies done on human susceptibility to freezing, >poisons, torture, etc., and the followon work done by various >evil empires. Some of it was just done for fun, >but some of it _was_ real science, with hypotheses and experiments, >and there's only so much research you can do into the >resistence of the body to serious damage without actually >damaging live bodies, most accidental damage to human bodies >isn't done in sufficiently instrumented environments to be useful, >and it's just _damn_ hard to get good volunteers these days. >Did most of that work rate as "immoral science" - I'd say so. I think it's an error to use "moral" or "immoral" as a modifier for "science." It's a matter of opinion/ethics as to whether some science is "for immoral purposes," but calling something "immoral science" is fraught with trouble. To a vegetarian, any science related to meat production is "immoral science." To a devout pacifist, any science related to weapons in any way is "immoral science." To an Orthodox Jew, any science done on the Sabbath is "immoral science." To a Communist, any science which refutes scientific socialism is "immoral science." To the Catholic Church, circa 1500, any science which challenged the earth-centric view was "immoral science." Personally, I don't view scientific experiments done on condemned prisoners as immoral. If a human being has already been sentenced to die, and, for example, accepts some payment (perhaps for his heirs) to die in some scientifically interesting way, why call it "immoral"? While I would not have, I hope, worked in a Nazi death camp, the science obtained is undeniably real science, some of the only solid data we have on freezing humans, on exposing them to pathogens, etc. (BTW, there are those who believe using placebos in experiments involving life-threatening situations (like diseases) is "immoral science." I view it as a necessary way to do science in this arena. So long as the patients are informed as to the protocol, and understand they may randomly end up in the placebo group, I have no problems. Nonetheless, the fact that some or all in the control group will die in the experiment is deemed by some to be "immoral.") --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 01:59:01 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:59:01 +0800 Subject: 1st sign of a closed mind... In-Reply-To: <199801131723.LAA27648@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980114095040.44123@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Tue, Jan 13, 1998 at 11:23:07AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > "I won't listen to that because ...." The signature file is too long and contains lame ascii? :) -- Steve From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 02:06:02 1998 From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:06:02 +0800 Subject: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? Message-ID: Scratch Monkey proposes building an Eternity service using the Stego File System, provided an anonymous broadcast channel exists - it's assumed that alt.anonymous.messages will do the job. I suspect that wide deployment of Eternity would lead to this group being closed down. We need a more robust anonymous broadcast channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? Ross From isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de Wed Jan 14 02:11:49 1998 From: isparkes at q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de (Ian Sparkes) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:11:49 +0800 Subject: TLS implementations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980114105954.006bf470@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> At 00:31 14.01.98 -0500, Anonymous wrote: >Don't you know the place where there is anyone >TLS implementations (source code)? >Teach to me if it is here because it is known. >Thank you very much. > What is this thing which before me I see? Lo! 'Tis a herald from Nobochookie-san! Is it? Or is it just someone posing as he? For he speaks in riddles to cover his plan... (Things are a bit slow here today - you might have guessed) -- \!!/ ( o o ) +------ooO--(_)--Ooo-+----------------------------------------------------+ | .oooO | PGP5 Key Fingerprint: | | ( ) Oooo. | 1F59 CADC 951E ADAD 5EA5 9544 FCCE 8E30 4988 551E | | \ ( ( ) | Crypto Kong signature below | | \__) ) / | | | (__/ |"Ian.Sparkes(at)T-Online.de" "Ian.Sparkes(at)ac.com"| | |"isparkes(at)q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de" | | | Life empiricist and confused ethical hedonist | | | | +--------------------+----------------------------------------------------+ | I'm not your lawer, you're not my client. This is therefore not advice | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ --digsig Ian Sparkes 2u5Nfae28E97i3Q6GXCKjyVMc01IoVPE20AcNwVhVHv 1mCAElQ4Pnn2mXI1zRafFJRqWDlUWFOf2Km4nT8O 4ddYACfzVy8hIx+JU/Nde/oQmwHEF6zEeBY6LshYI From sheriff at speakeasy.org Wed Jan 14 02:32:07 1998 From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:32:07 +0800 Subject: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) In-Reply-To: <19971226.145900.12766.0.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >These arguments are all smoke and mirrors unless we figure >out where authority lies (? ;-) With the people of this country. There that was simple. :) >As far as I'm concerned freedom of association is implied by >freedom of assembly. To assemble in this context obviously >means to associate. If it doesn't, then what the hell is it? >To come together in order to work things out? Is that >association? In the context of assembling for commerce, >commerce is just assembling and agreeing on the terms of >free association. Okay, my point was simply that an assumed right shouldn't HAVE to be implied under the existing constitution. Either we have to find a way to list all our freedoms at once and then guarantee them definitively, or we have to not guarantee them on paper, so as to not LIMIT them TO paper. I'm assuming that the bill of rights was written in this spirit -- our forefathers listed and guaranteed all of our rights that had been previously contested by King George. I can only assume that they had no idea the kind of civil war they would start over rights that they didn't see as being threatened but must (in today's world) be guaranteed by law in order to be valid. I mean, hell how to you spell out the right to privacy in leagalese, in one paragraph? You can't, not in today's society. Everybody's definition has a different spin, and all of the ones based on common sense are correct. >The authority of a Supreme Court was challenged by Thomas >Jefferson, who speculated that if such a court were the >ultimate arbiter of justice, then a tyranny of the judiciary >would follow. Nine judges, appointed for life, who therefore never run for election (even though they are selected and confirmed by elected officials). Whomever chooses them influences the political philosophy driving that court for years and years after their term of office has expired. I entirely agree with Thomas Jefferson. Interestingly enough, the constitution doesn't say a damn thing about "judicial review." It was a power that the supreme court granted unto itself, something that the court itself would challange if either of the other two branches of government tried that... Personally, I think the voters should decide exactly what the supreme court can do (since it's rather vaguely defined in the constitution), and then give themselves to vote on who will be put in those nine chairs. >So who ultimately judges? I should think having a federal >body judge the constitutional limitations of the federal >government is an obvious conflict of interest. I think the idea behind it all was to say that, in putting nine judges in the highest court and giving them lifetime terms, they then have the ability to make decisions without facing the wrath of the other two brances. You're correct, however. A man who represents himself in a court of law has a fool for a client, and this holds true for the Fed. >In any case, >anyone willing to read the constitution and do just a little >bit of homework will find out that the constitution is a >*limitation* of the powers of the federal government, not a >broad grant. Thank you, thank you! :) >[little know fact: Earl Warren, noted Supreme Court >"Justice" was the designer of the Japanese-American Prison >camps in the US during WWII] I didn't know that. >Before someone starts spouting off on "our living >constitution"(TM) someone please tell me why they didn't >strike out the conflicting parts of the constitution when >they "grew" it? Something like "amendments number one, two, >five, nine and ten should be amended to read "unless we say >otherwise". Alterations of public law almost always specify >the previous laws that are struck down. In fact, if memory >serves, the repeal of prohibition specifically alters the >amendment that created it. Actually, I think the "unless we say so" clause is allready in there, in most if not all ammendments (unless I'm mistaken). It reads something to the effect of Congress having the athority to draft any and all laws that assist in the upholding of whatever part of the constitution that the clause is included in. I think it's called the "elastic clause," if memory serves me correctly (where's my copy of the constitution that has all the $2 bills with the signing of the declaration of independance on the back stuffed into the middle?!). >(It is left as an excercise to the reader to figure out why >prohibition needed an amendment to the constitution while >prohibition of other mind altering substances did not ;-) I think what happened was that the prohibition ammendent was drafted in the "do MORE good!" days following the United State's successes in the first world war. A time of "good feelings" was in effect, and since the evil Germans had been stamped out, folks figured that stamping out other evils was also a good thing. How ironic that the repealing ammendment immediately followed the woman's sufferage ammendment. It's like the country woke up from a bad hangover... >Have a day. Allways do. :) Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLyDBQBMw4+NR29ZAQHRuAf/VijkwXb/H2uXRuObeNsAdpgysKmMvEWr 1ufctl9e+BtbeByLLLmH22qudsl76xrVA5EHq8qHOHixZQTDayb7lfeTBHBwnrkI Z79ZT5EUyjIBM6V6Iad2Qtit7ePkeGG52UqKYU1cbruEQkyM4FZc2js2kbG/uky6 53+ez/wvdBYwIbB8PnTRkrE8ZDC+21hHFH+5Aw4wSRP0cyHfslu8uWg4DM1O2car VQqxvy1XYEKv3uXoF/l8v/iw3kAwXpaJzhViEnOAuli21nVip8xa+3zG+sMyY4Gg us8wvVeqqNANNu8WG9WAUqV0OmGaWObNC6QGnVOqBGoKulmoDFFdjw== =Fsmr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sheriff at speakeasy.org Wed Jan 14 02:33:12 1998 From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:33:12 +0800 Subject: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Losing third-party relay is rather a shame - the Internet used to >be a cooperative system where everybody tried to get mail through, >and avoiding third-party relay is more complex if your users >have lots of different domain names (e.g. www.foo.com hosted at >bigisp.net). It also pushes the net more in the direction of >all mail needing to have True Names, which is a Bad Thing, >and decreases robustness of the overall system. [snip] >Another approach to reducing spam is of course to keep contacting >ISPs to kill off bad users, and to get ISPs to refuse spamhauses >as customers. I do see the validity of your argument, and I do agree about forcing everybody to have a "True Name" to not necessarily be a good thing. Then again, a few years ago the marketing industry (if it may be called that) had no idea the "wealth" they could produce by using the Internet for relatively cheap advertising. I love Eudora for a very simple reason: the simplicity of the filters offered in even the free version. While the simplicity also bars complex filters that take care of a bunch of e-mail in one pop, it does allow for layering. I have various levels in my filtering system: content- based, like filtering for PGP messages, stupid crap from Vulis or threads I don't feel like following. Next comes the To: filters -- I've got a number of different e-mail boxes, each with its own purpose. If I get mail auto-forwarded from any of my secondary accounts, it falls through these filters and is dropped into the correct folders. After that come the sender-based filters. If there is mail for me from an anonymous source that is not addressed to me, and doesn't contain content that interests me, it's dropped into the trash. Then all the mail from persistant spam domains that I allready know about gets thrown in the trash. If any mail comes FROM a mailing list, instead of being sent TO a mailing list, it's the next to go. After all that, I filter the To: line for all my mailing lists, and each bit of mail is sent into the correct folder as above. After all that rot, if the mail in question doesn't contain my address in the To: or Cc: lines (except recipient list repressed mail, which is sometimes interesting), it too is dropped into my *SPAM folder and the subject is changed accordingly, which then wraps up 99% of all the spam that I receive, and I forward the headers to the appropriate ISPs. There is a "simple" solution to this, and it isn't government legislation. If spammers want to be smart about it and AVOID legislation by power-hungry politicians, all they have to do is subscribe to spam ISPs that are set up for the express purpose of spamming. It doesn't matter how many of them are out there, really, or what mailing lists are abused: those who are receptive to spam will respond, and those of us who hate spam can set up blacklists that detail all the spam ISPs that we encounter, and circulate those lists. It then becomes insanely easy to receive no more than ONE message from each spam ISP (they could create a new domain tag, .spm), and everybody's happy. If the spammers would be smart enough to put the effort into creating such a network, much as we have, for discussing issues that matter to us, then they would be in a lot less trouble, and fewer people would be calling for their heads. Or am I wrong? :) Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLyC+gBMw4+NR29ZAQGhowf/f35tihuAl6b+IH8FD7P4dGQR9+t1JKwq rt7CT7eYrJ7ZJ2KO/YZlmufVmaeVGac0eN4MkrjHj8TIvAMKtxegWnmd0GLmp+cI QUwuVGKN2Fab6sxvQjwKaLDPjgQFSBiOS6Rsm8jnSstPbtD/dmgcEf2+svW+edXH oivyKeSF0VcdCcYPDX/+sRiKKbB8ZdMimAqNuIEboGQjOIMLVkwnWsxKQH+XIw3/ fdBOAEPLNj0Tz6R2v3W2XLgewZsmJpjELoZl7ZYYNpdm5h6h80JdXCoC6vOSDsEu ATwsvvRQw0wcKvgB0fsBhpO9u0KdHk0NYuPr2i/Z9oxoMbo8h7hoZQ== =OfnS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anon at anon.efga.org Wed Jan 14 04:14:36 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:14:36 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: Timmy May's 16Kb brain's single convolution is directly wired to his rectum for input and his T1 mouth for output. That's 16K bits, not bytes. Anal intercourse has caused extensive brain damage. \ o/\_ Timmy May <\__,\ '\, | From dave at bureau42.ml.org Wed Jan 14 04:37:31 1998 From: dave at bureau42.ml.org (David E. Smith) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:37:31 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I wonder if it is the intention of those who support a ban on human cloning > to prevent my friend who lost his forearm in the Vietnam War from having a > new one grown and attached? Yup. Unless there's some remarkable breakthrough, you can't just grow an eyeball, or a kidney, or whatever. You've gotta grow the whole body. In time, we might be able to genegineer the process for optimal production of the targeted body part, likely with all sorts of side effects that would be, er, detrimental in a "real" person. Oh, wait, we'll never have the chance to do those studies in the first place. Hope old "lefty" is happy with just one arm. dave From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 04:52:16 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:52:16 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801141241.MAA00398@server.eternity.org> Ross Anderson > Scratch Monkey proposes building an Eternity service using the Stego > File System, provided an anonymous broadcast channel exists - it's > assumed that alt.anonymous.messages will do the job. > > I suspect that wide deployment of Eternity would lead to this group > being closed down. We need a more robust anonymous broadcast > channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? Some ideas: - post to random newsgroups, use textual mimic functions, send decryption keys after the stegoed data has been distributed to disguise data until it is too late to affect distribution - become a spammer, or employ some spammers. Spammers use the hit and run approach with disposable accounts; with sufficient availability of accounts, and the economic incentive they seem to flourish in spite of intense displeasure of recipients. - video signals: live porn shows, one on one "chat live to our model, she will do anything you ask, blah, blah" -- high volume, easy target for stego, plausible reasons for anonymity - subliminal channels in the TCP/IP and IPSEC protocols. Someone posted a reference for an implementation of some subliminal channels in the linux TCP/IP stack. - VR gaming, VR chat rooms with audio, video; this could be a higher bandwidth version of IRC. - Subliminal channels in computer generated random numbers for multi-player internet based games. (Death match doom with subliminal channels, or with audio, video, etc) Not a very super-highway like subliminal network possibly... mostly the internet is not up to real time VR, video chat, etc. for the majority of users at present. Many of the better applications for subliminal channels are currently impractical. When people can buy a T1 to their house for �2,000/yr instead of �20,000, we will stand a better chance. Adam From rdl at mit.edu Wed Jan 14 05:51:34 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:51:34 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion Message-ID: <199801141341.IAA29112@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Tim May brought this issue up recently -- if someone develops a greatest- thing-since-sliced-bread Eternity package, then releases it. it's pretty likely that they will eventually be approached by (mi6/mossad/CIA/KCIA/etc.). What's likely to happen? Certainly they could kill you. They could make it look like random street crime, or an accident, or kill you with #16 000 in your pocket just to make it clear what their reasons were (Gerald Bull, Mossad, London, .32acp). At best, you could force them to make it very obvious it was murder, by having paranoid levels of security, but they could still kill you. If they kill the programmer (s/programmer/programmers, or just enough that the project becomes disorganized, etc.), that at worst will keep new releases of the software from coming out. At least until another group starts working on things, assuming protocols and/or source are public. Perhaps that new group would be a front for the NSA, though. A risk. More likely, they'd try to coerce you. This could include threats of death, which are best responded to by ignoring them, since they don't gain anything if they kill you. Or torture, which is equally ineffective if they kill you. Or slander/etc. to try to discredit you. (unlikely to work at least among cypherpunks, in the absence of technical attacks as well). Most likely, they would try to buy you. This could be by outright offering money for back doors, which would be great if it worked, but is unlikely to happen in the first place. If offered a bribe, you could go public with that fact (preferably after taking the money :), and worst case publically distance yourself from the project. More likely, they could try to infiltrate the technical team covertly, or ask for features which happen to be non-public security compromises, perhaps under the guise of security improvements (this presumes they are beyond the state of the art). WOrst case, one can say that if the intelligence community is far beyond the state of the art, you have no chance at protecting against covertly modified source code, modified to break in a subtle way which is not known to the general community. However, the world is already in this position -- if they solved the DLP, or even knew of subtle bugs in a processor, or whatever, tools would already be weak. Assuming the intelligence community is not so advanced that thorough inspection by the world at large won't reveal back doors or weaknesses, the solution is code review by the public. It was brought up that verifying PGP was just about at the limit of the world's capability. I agree that it is certainly beyond the level of one person, or even a small group, to verify -- plus, you want code verified by enough non-interacting entities that it is unlikely they can all be bought. I was looking around for a solution to this -- Lenny Foner at the MIT Media lab has something for his agents project which might be a solution. A system by which sections of source code are verified by individuals, signed, other sections are verified by others, etc. Then, during compilation, you could say something like "all of the security critical code must be verified by at least one of these 12 people, everything else by at least 5 people per section in this list of distinct people". It would then show where the "threadbare" sections are, and you could optionally verify them yourself, have someone else verify them for money, or post to cypherpunks asking for help. Security critical code should be encapsulated fairly well anyway -- I'd feel a lot worse about having a bug in such a part of my code than a screen refresh bug. One could potentially limit unintended side effects by running security code on its own processor, in its own sandbox, or just use a different instance of the JVM to run it. I think technical means can solve the problem of source code review and intelligence community rubber hose tactics. (preferably they'll still be handing out free money anyway, though) -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 14 06:38:45 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:38:45 +0800 Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801140034.SAA30080@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801141431.PAA03381@basement.replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jim Choate writes: > If you want to trust your future to somebody who 'shuts down' > because > somebody says "spin doctor bullshit" or strenously defends their > views be > my guest. Me, I want a MUCH more mature and determined individual > handling > me and my decendants future. I want to experience that strength of > conviction from them not a yellow streak. A 'yellow streak'? This is oh-so-mature, Jim. Especially following your increasingly desperate 'why won't you speak with me, Dr. Froomkin' pleas. Face the facts, Jim: People are kill-filing you because you've been an arrogant, overbearing prick. Learn some manners. Frondeur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNLzMAFqnO6WRZ1UEEQL4IQCgwIabisfy9pc4ndS2MEQHVfnRunYAn3O+ 9QZkpV9FmPN8geRZWOeV+lnS =3AXX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 06:48:06 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:48:06 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) Message-ID: <199801141503.JAA00917@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:31:04 +0000 (GMT) > From: "David E. Smith" > Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) > > I wonder if it is the intention of those who support a ban on human cloning > > to prevent my friend who lost his forearm in the Vietnam War from having a > > new one grown and attached? > > Yup. Unless there's some remarkable breakthrough, you can't just grow an > eyeball, or a kidney, or whatever. You've gotta grow the whole body. In > time, we might be able to genegineer the process for optimal production of > the targeted body part, likely with all sorts of side effects that would > be, er, detrimental in a "real" person. Actualy, at least according to one episode of that show on TDC that Skully form the X-Files hosts, there are several groups who are working on just this thing. One female researcher has extended the life of worms (admittedly a step or two from humans) by 7 times with no apparent effect. There was a piece on CNN late last nite about some researchers discussing this as well. Their estimate is that it would be at least 5 years before there would be anything available on the open market. There is also at least two groups working on growing specific organs. One group (the one interviewed on the TDC show) is using plastic forms to grow the organs in. They can apparently grow small samples of specific cells and are looking at how to organize the growth of more complex structures such as a kidney which would include blood-vessels and such. I am sorry I don't know the name of the show. If somebody out there does please speak up. My prediction is that within 15 years there will be methods to extend human life by at least a factor of 3 and techniques to replace every organ or structure with the persons own cells (thus alleviating all tissue rejection problems) through accellerated growth mechanism based on cloning in such a way that cancer, accidents, etc. will become at best temporary tragedies. In short, unless you get your head or entire torso squished there will be methods to keep people alive for periods approaching 200 years. Further, these techniques will be available through standard insurance via your employer because they will be low cost (that's the nice thing about bio-science). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From 1qfiZZ5dK at k1notsee.com Wed Jan 14 22:58:02 1998 From: 1qfiZZ5dK at k1notsee.com (1qfiZZ5dK at k1notsee.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:58:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Press Release Message-ID: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET USERS PRESS RELEASE BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY ANNOUNCES ENTRY INTO TRILLION DOLLAR TECHNOLOGY MARKETS You're obviously technology minded or you wouldn't be reading this right now! THE MARKETS You're probably aware that deregulation of the $215 Billion Dollar electricity market begins in 1998. Remember what happened when long-distance deregulated? Companies like MCI and Sprint made billions and became household names in a market 1/3 the size of electricity! And electricity is only the tip of the iceberg. 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Please take 10-15 minutes and call: 801-345-9614 Then call me at 310-281-5500 so I can answer your questions and provide further information. BEING FIRST IS GREAT--YOU NOW HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE BEFORE FIRST From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 07:08:01 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:08:01 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: <199801141532.JAA01028@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:41:16 EST > From: Ryan Lackey > Tim May brought this issue up recently -- if someone develops a greatest- > thing-since-sliced-bread Eternity package, then releases it. it's pretty > likely that they will eventually be approached by (mi6/mossad/CIA/KCIA/etc.). > > What's likely to happen? > > Certainly they could kill you. They could make it look like random street > crime, or an accident, or kill you with #16 000 in your pocket just to make > it clear what their reasons were (Gerald Bull, Mossad, London, .32acp). Actualy they killed Bull before he could complete his Super-Gun design and get it built. There is no point to be had in killing the designer after the fact except to advertise their accomplishment except to prevent future work by that person. > More likely, they'd try to coerce you. This could include threats of death, > which are best responded to by ignoring them, since they don't gain anything > if they kill you. Or torture, which is equally ineffective if they kill you. > Or slander/etc. to try to discredit you. (unlikely to work at least among > cypherpunks, in the absence of technical attacks as well). This seems to have worked with several of the programmers at The L0pht (l0pht.com) because of their legal problems. Seems they now do work for the DoJ and other groups in return the various charges that were pending against them were dropped (or at least put on hold). > Most likely, they would try to buy you. This could be by outright offering > money for back doors, which would be great if it worked, but is unlikely to > happen in the first place. L0phtCrack is one of the major NT cracking/testing tools currently used by folks. And no, I am not implying it has been compromised only pointing out that because of the relationship of some of the programmers to law enforcement it could have been. I am not aware of the exact timing of the agreement, development, and release of the software. > If offered a bribe, you could go public with > that fact (preferably after taking the money :), Then everyone would want proof and if you couldn't produce it they would simply label you a nutcase. You probably would have mysterious accident after that sort of behaviour. Besides, even if you were to prove it - could you trust the witness protection process? > I was looking around for a solution to this -- Lenny Foner at the MIT > Media lab has something for his agents project which might be a solution. > A system by which sections of source code are verified by individuals, > signed, other sections are verified by others, etc. Then, during If the agents could infiltrate the development team what keeps them from mounting a mitm attack on the people doing the signing? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From PleaseSeeBelow at GreatPagersFor1998.com Wed Jan 14 23:28:05 1998 From: PleaseSeeBelow at GreatPagersFor1998.com (PleaseSeeBelow at GreatPagersFor1998.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:28:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: FREE Motorola Pagers!!! Message-ID: <82315499_7790740> ********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* FREE MOTOROLA PAGER!!! Keep in touch with family, friends and the office with your own FREE PAGER. No Strings! No Credit Checks! No Long Term Contracts to sign! Just Great Service and a FREE PAGER. 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If interested, please respond to chicklette at webtv.net with "Free Pager" in the subject line and we will provide you with the information you need to obtain your FREE PAGER. ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: Cartmore at ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 07:37:09 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:37:09 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801141553.JAA01099@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:41:53 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? > - post to random newsgroups, use textual mimic functions, send > decryption keys after the stegoed data has been distributed to > disguise data until it is too late to affect distribution Isn't this going to increase latency and increase the likelihood of both sureptitious attacks (I notice the request in newsgroup A and begin putting my mitm requests in the other newsgroups - the odds being that I will get the data and then forward to the original recipient with small changes) as well as must plain missing the request? > - become a spammer, or employ some spammers. Spammers use the hit and > run approach with disposable accounts; with sufficient availability > of accounts, and the economic incentive they seem to flourish in > spite of intense displeasure of recipients. Be shure to pay with cash and use an anonymous name and address. Considering the cost of accounts this could be quite expensive. Many services do provide the first 2 weeks free or similar features. I predict that should this model be put into practice at a very broad level the ISP's won't give the free trial-periods to anonymous accounts. > - video signals: live porn shows, one on one "chat live to our model, > she will do anything you ask, blah, blah" -- high volume, easy > target for stego, plausible reasons for anonymity Is this going to be a live model or a VR relicant? If it is a live model then it should be relatively trivial to determine that persons identification and location. Another question that comes up is how many strippers are going to participate in this if they know the consequences? It's one thing to spend the night or a few weeks in the tank, a whole nother thing to spend years in there. > - subliminal channels in the TCP/IP and IPSEC protocols. Someone > posted a reference for an implementation of some subliminal channels > in the linux TCP/IP stack. These still have to show up in the actual packets and are open to sniffer attacks. Also, the individual packets can be traced from router to router. Lot's of blind alleys but you'll get there eventualy. > When people can buy a T1 to their house for �2,000/yr instead of > �20,000, we will stand a better chance. SWBT will currently sell T1 access to homes for as little as $214/mo. Would you settle for $2,568/yr.? Note that this price doesn't include routing and name resolution. I'm still (3 months later) trying to get SWBT to tell me how much they will charge for this - they supposedly offer it but I have yet to find an actual business office that support home delivery of service. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 07:51:30 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:51:30 +0800 Subject: Cellular fountain of youth found [CNN] Message-ID: <199801141611.KAA01182@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > SCIENTISTS DISCOVER CELLULAR 'FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH' > > Cell/slide Adding the telomerase enzyme keeps cells alive and > dividing In this story: > * Enzyme helps cells avoid aging, death > * Stock in biotech company skyrockets > * Telomeres grow back > * 'It will totally transform genetic engineering' > * Related stories and sites > > January 13, 1998 > Web posted at: 8:55 p.m. EST (0155 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Researchers at the University of Texas > Southwestern Medical Center say they have discovered a cellular > "fountain of youth" that enables human cells to avoid normal aging > and cell death. > > The finding won't make people any younger or allow them to live > forever, but the researchers say it could keep them healthier > longer. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From zeus at alt.net Wed Jan 14 23:58:24 1998 From: zeus at alt.net (Dr. Zeus) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:58:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BDC364.46C2@alt.net> Anonymous wrote: > > I tried sending an anonymous test article to comp.org.cauce via the CRACKER > remailer. Sure enough, the Gypsie Jew Zorch forged a cancel for my article: > > >From: scott at zorch.sf-bay.org (Scott Hazen Mueller) > >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce > >Subject: cancelled posting > >Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:25:04 -0500 > >Organization: At Home; Salida, CA > >Lines: 26 > >Sender: johnl at iecc.com > >Approved: comp.org.cauce at abuse.net > >Message-ID: > >Reply-To: scott at zorch.sf-bay.org > >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com > >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce at abuse.net > >X-Authentication-Warning: orbit.hooked.net: Uzorch set sender to news at zorch.sf-bay.org using -f > >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost.sf-bay.org > >Path: ...!iecc.com!iecc.com!not-for-mail > > > >I have issued a cancel for the following posting to comp.org.cauce. Death > >threats are serious business. > > > >Xref: zorch comp.org.cauce:378 > >Path: zorch!news.well.com!noos.hooked.net!204.156.128.20.MISMATCH!news1.best.com > >!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-i > >n-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!205.238.207.65!iecc.com!iecc.co > >m!not-for-mail > >From: Anonymous > >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce > >Subject: CAUCE offers a $50,000 (canadian) reward for killing Chris Lewis, his w > >ife, and the kid > >Date: 30 Dec 1997 10:58:17 -0500 > >Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY > >Lines: 14 > >Sender: johnl at iecc.com > >Approved: comp.org.cauce at abuse.net > >Message-ID: > >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com > >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce at abuse.net > >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > > remailer administrator at . > > My cancelled Usenet article offered a reward for killing the spammer: > > >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to > >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and > >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to > >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa: > > I think we should leave the family out of this, and instead killing Chris Lewis, just get him fired from Nortel > >483 Vances Side Road > >Dunrobin, Ontario K0A 1T0 > >CANADA > >Home telephone: (613) 832-0541, > >Office telephone: (613) 763-2935 > > > >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org > >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward. > > This is fucking censorship! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my > web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the > pre-teen kids screwing. Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis. > > ---guy Just6 who is this "guy?" From sunder at beast.brainlink.com Wed Jan 14 07:58:45 1998 From: sunder at beast.brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:58:45 +0800 Subject: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data > widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or > "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want > suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step. > > Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out > at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and > various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets > and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general. Yep. I gave them out at trade shows such as PC Expo. What I found best was to dump a stack of them on a common table area. These expos usually do have public machines for users to login and check email (horrible idea in terms of security!), or surf. CD's would be better suited for this of course. Another idea is to include hidden archives or pieces of archives in the stuff we distribute. Have you signature be a piece of a big archives and post different pieces daily. If you write shareware, etc. include inactive files with the distribution, perhaps stegoing pieces in any images (setup screens, logos, etc...) > If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of > course other considerations come into play. You could always give the media away then charge a fee for unlocking it. Many companies already do this. (see www.warehouse.com and go to download warehouse from there.) You can download a package which is unlocked only when you give them a credit card number. The unlocking key is RSA based... There are also spam based free web sites out there where anyone can get a web page if they agree to have the provider provide a spam bar ad. You could easily get dozens of these on various providers and hide bits of the info there. > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work > adequately.) For that to happen, alternate banks must exist first, or at least alternate ecconomies with some way to translate inbetween. I doubt many governments will allow this. Heck, our city government is taking to ticketing jaywalkers now, if they're getting this vicious on the city level, think at the Fed level they'll let this happen? Perhaps something like a swiss bank might be able/willing to do the exchange. > Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service" > will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order. The biggest problem to this will be the 'let kiddies posting whole CDROMS of pirated stuff to the sites, this will certainly eat up all the space on the servers and make them more liable to raids. Heck, if the kiddies don't take to this, the spooks will pretend to be kiddies and do the same. The biggest problem though will be replicating the haven throughout the world so that the whole haven will be at a point where it can't be easily shut down, even if one or two go down. How many servers do we have so far? =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From webmaster at wildauction.com Wed Jan 14 08:46:27 1998 From: webmaster at wildauction.com (webmaster at wildauction.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:46:27 +0800 Subject: Apologies Message-ID: <199801141631.IAA58742@rho.ben2.ucla.edu> Hello, sorry it took so long to respond. First of all our live online auction site, wildauction.com, is up and running. However, we are currently in our final phase of testing. It is open for business but we have done no advertising and our first email list won't go out until this weekend (After the USA today story about it). If you can keep hush hush about it check it out at http://www.wildauction.com . Please note, due to our new SSL features some users (In particular AOL and IE3.x Users), Will have to use the unsecure registration. As a bonus to our first customers we are offering free shipping. You asked about what makes us different from the competition. That's easy! No minimum bids! No Reserve prices! On a dedicated T3! Secure registration! Loaded with computer products! Again, the password protections have been removed so check it out. You might even get a pentium 233MMX for around 40 bucks. (there aren't that many bidders yet :) Thanks, John http://www.wildauction.com From honig at otc.net Wed Jan 14 09:57:55 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:57:55 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114092902.007c09c0@206.40.207.40> At 09:30 PM 1/13/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >Is it possible to make it cryptographically hard to determine where >the data is stored? > Eternity. Look it up. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Thu Jan 15 02:13:28 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:13:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! 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TRANSLATIONS As well as English you can now choose any of these languages DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm ESPA�OL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm FRAN�AIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?150 Pic 2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?151 Pic 3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?152 Pic 4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?153 Pic 5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?154 Pic 6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?155 Pic 7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?156 Pic 8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?157 Pic 9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?158 Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?159 ============================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US. ============================================================ From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 11:34:21 1998 From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:34:21 +0800 Subject: REMAILERS: please cut down on mccain + tea Message-ID: <199801141740.RAA03536@notatla.demon.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Sorry about this, but I'd really like to see a decrease in the traffic through mccain and tea from next weekend lasting the next couple of months. I'm thinking of helping this decrease by adjusting the remailer configuration variables, and restricting the time I spend dialled-up. In view of the fact that some people will press on anyway it's probably best if most of you regard these 2 remailers as temporarily closed. If you have a reply block leading through tea, and it gets low traffic, and you can tolerate extra delay you might wish to leave it in place. This is nothing to do with the recent modem problem, nor the size of my phone bill, and I have not been got at by GCHQ. I have a really good reason for this, and if you knew what I know ... Hope to be business as usual by late March. I am not contemplating a permanent shutdown. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAgUBNLz4SkrZ5ZQH9XIxAQGKCAP9GEI3dRL2xJpF/MXC6HiCbnjaRBKDQUbt 23hUBmSgo3E3eB9tP/ZEavXFW9A0IMKMV1qfULK5HOvgYgQMkSX708Z7mGSqfWUQ nmAmMUmYW3Nww+b3lZ71Ou+LpZLrY2iGu59wOSFCKGyxgPrq1ScbqlIl/3ActWw2 3T4a/k8CPkA= =crE5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant at notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From jamesd at echeque.com Wed Jan 14 13:01:02 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:01:02 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. Message-ID: <199801142049.MAA02259@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- 2 Since release there have been a very large number of hits on the Kong documents, and mere 102 downloads of the program, and 74 downloads of the source code. The large number of source code downloads indicates that I am only reaching the crypto techie audience, that for the most part is already able to use PGP, not the non tech audience that Crypto Kong was designed for. On my web page I have documentation as to how business users can and should use this product. (See the section "contracts and certificates" I and Mather Cromer have prepared a release document targeted at business users (See below) Does anyone have any suggestion of how to get the message in front of the target audience? (press release oriented towards businessmen follows: -- Announcing Crypto Kong. Free digital signatures and encryption. . Many businessmen use a faxed signature for a contract, or for authority to act, or worse still, a shared password, as stockbrokers often do. This is almost worthless. The signature on a fax can be, and often is, a mere bitmap, not genuinely scanned in from a signature written in ink on a paper document, but merely applied digitally to an image in computer memory. If that bitmap was also applied to some other document sent to the same company, which it usually was, then the fax proves nothing. On the other hand, often one cannot wait for FedEx to deliver signed documents. The answer is digital signatures and encryption. With digitally-signed electronic documents, you can send unforgeable signed documents instantaneously across the globe. Crypto Kong is easy to use and it uses the same identity model that as businesses today use for ordinary handwritten signatures, unlike other products which impose their own different way of handling identity. Crypto Kong takes away the hassles of certificate management, public key authentication, and complicated operating instructions. Anyone can immediately use it to sign documents, to compare signatures or to encrypt sensitive messages. Kong compares the signatures on documents, rather than comparing a signature against certificates. Crypto Kong software makes it easy to send or receive digitally signed documents or use top grade encryption to keep messages private. Crypto Kong provides support for contracts and the documentation that accompanies transactions. The Crypto Kong application and detailed documentation information is available as a free download from the Kong home page: Kong is compatible only with Windows 95 and Windows NT. Complete source code is also available for download from the home page. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG SgQ8pgY/MeQpI9CfGR5kSsRdW61mSVYtqHkEMoMU 47jSLQPPmYxhaKH9MyohUU9Q9i3bzVWjwey/s3Od4 --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG gME+6HSq3N3G1iw88pJyVqcNc8dlMZhS2f+zUijA 4IpLFuTI1zY7tEU4+gDAFM6uhgcWP9IyA/3guXt7j 4WRob8mo+81LCLSyU4RiPNOilXHZTlyvZzsFMr+9d --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From 777e42 at ia.com.hk Thu Jan 15 07:09:51 1998 From: 777e42 at ia.com.hk (nz) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:09:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: NET-ZINE Message-ID: <199801163816BAA40525@post.uu.net> NET-ZINE - The following is sent to you as a special offering of the most exciting offers anywhere on the internet. These offers will only be made once and we will not contact you again. 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Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:15:16 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801142307.PAA18916@netcom5.netcom.com> timmy predictably states the case for moral relativism. >I think it's an error to use "moral" or "immoral" as a modifier for "science." > >It's a matter of opinion/ethics as to whether some science is "for immoral >purposes," but calling something "immoral science" is fraught with trouble. > >To a vegetarian, any science related to meat production is "immoral science." well, the concept of "criminality" is likewise fraught with trouble. what is criminal and what is not? obviously some definitions stretch the limits. is a jaywalker a criminal? a political dissident? ok, how about an axe murderer? similarly, I think your predictable opposition to the use of the word "immoral" is specious. moreover, I think such a misunderstanding, or worldview, is detrimental to human welfare in general. I think all the evil government scientists I've been referring to recently would very much agree with you on rejecting ideas of "morality" and "conscience". a person does not need an infallible definition of morality to navigate the world, imho, but a person that has none, or rejects any such attempt, is part of the problem and not part of the solution, imho. >Personally, I don't view scientific experiments done on condemned prisoners >as immoral. If a human being has already been sentenced to die, and, for >example, accepts some payment (perhaps for his heirs) to die in some >scientifically interesting way, why call it "immoral"? oh, well, lets see, you have a very obvious glitch in your reasoning. you presume the prisoner gives his permssion. now lets see, assume he doesn't? just to pop a hypothetical example out of the blue, say someone named timmy gets arrested for gun violations and gets thrown in jail temporarily. would it be immoral for the police to remove his organs? perhaps without his permission? perhaps without anesthetic? if not immoral, what? criminal? criminal but not immoral? >While I would not have, I hope, worked in a Nazi death camp, the science >obtained is undeniably real science, some of the only solid data we have on >freezing humans, on exposing them to pathogens, etc. I've seen your defense of these experiments before-- its a topic of interest for you for obvious reasons; it presents a possible glitch in your moral relativism. I don't think BWs claim that there is a difference between immoral scientists and immoral science. immoral science is what immoral scientists practice. what's the point? my personal point is that if we had a culture of people who were concerned about morality, perhaps we would have institutions that reflect integrity. contrary to most here, I believe that our institutions are correctly representing the people of a country-- their thoughts, their motivations, their concerns. its key to the philosophy of disenfranchisement, apathy, and nihilism (and anarchism) to claim that the government is not representing the people. what is the evidence for this? because the government is corrupt, the people are not necessarily corrupt? because the government is greedy and full of powermongers, the population is not full of greedy powermongers who would do the same given the opportunity? government is a mirror into our psyches that few people care to gaze on, precisely because we are not the fairest of them all. we've got the government we deserve, and it reflects our own pathologies within our psyches back to us. it reflects our laziness and apathy, our cynicism, our alienation, our withdrawal. and it takes a person who can master themselves to face up to this simple truth-- something that most everone of our country has failed to admit. when we begin to ask questions like "what is integrity" and "what is moral" and come up with serious answers, our world will improve. it will degenerate otherwise, and has given us a tremendous existence proof of that fact to date. but just remember, again, that I'm aimlessly ranting here, and there's no need to take any of this seriously From dbrown at alaska.net Wed Jan 14 15:27:08 1998 From: dbrown at alaska.net (Crisavec) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:27:08 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114135342.008c9d80@alaska.net> All I'm saying is that not EVERYONE who collects a government paycheck has "diminished mental capacity" I know several people with genius level IQ's that simply don't care where they work....And that's something to remember... >> > >> >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie >> >evidence of diminished mental capacity. >> >> Don't bet on.... >> >> >> There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the >> blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or >> the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't >> complete idiots and those of us who are. >> >> >Who's side are you on? > > --Dave ************************************************************************ * There is a theory which states that if anyone ever discovers * * exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will * * instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more * * bizarre and inexplicable. * * * * There is another theory which states that this has already happened. * * * * "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy." * ************************************************************************ From proff at iq.org Wed Jan 14 16:07:24 1998 From: proff at iq.org (Julian Assange) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:07:24 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801142049.MAA02259@proxy4.ba.best.com> Message-ID: "James A. Donald" writes: > -- 2 > Since release there have been a very large number of hits on > the Kong documents, and mere 102 downloads of the program, > and 74 downloads of the source code. > > The large number of source code downloads indicates that I am > only reaching the crypto techie audience, that for the most > part is already able to use PGP, not the non tech audience > that Crypto Kong was designed for. > My first recomendation would be to change the name. Quickly. Cheers, Julian. From declan at well.com Wed Jan 14 16:38:19 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:38:19 +0800 Subject: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust Message-ID: I wrote a little about public choice theory and the politics of antitrust in my article last week: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html Attached are excerpts from recent posts to a law and economics mailing list I'm on. I'm unsure of the reposting policy, so I'm deleting authors' names. Should be good reading anyway. -Declan === Assume for the moment that Microsoft is doing something wrong that the government should stop (a reach, I admit). If that is the case, how did the Justice Department come up with the figure of $1 million per day? Is that figure supposed to be compensatory, punitive, deterrent, or what? What goal is a daily fine supposed to accomplish that some more specifically-tailored remedy (injuntive relief, for instance) could not? Are there public choice explanations for what is driving this, and if so, what are they? === The Government's argument, I believe, is that Microsoft violated the consent order. A fine under these circumstances should punish the party that violated the order, deter it from violating the order again, and deter others from violating other orders. As for a public choice explanation, based upon the history of the present Administration, I suspect that one could be found in the records of the Federal Election Commission, i.e., I suspect that executives and shareholders of Microsoft's enemies have made far larger political contributions than Bill Gates and his colleagues. === Intel has in fact come under attack. The FTC has been investigating Intel for several months. The charge is similar to the rap on Microsoft - trying to dominate the inside of the computer by controlling the interface between the processor and "helper chips." The wonder is that Intel hasn't taken over the motherboard market - something that may also be more efficient, just as seemless integration of the operating system and browser and other applications is more efficient. Recall also that the FTC did in fact investigate Intel in the early nineties, though it filed no charges in the end. (I suspect that the FTC's institutional credibility is at stake. Since this is the second Intel probe, they're going to have come back with at least a symbolic consent decree.) Still, I would grant that the attack on Microsoft is more strident. Domestic political economy may play a role. Microsoft has vocal domestic competitors (Oracle, Netscape and Novell, for example). It's no coincidence that Republican Senator Hatch represents Novell's home state. Intel, in contrast, is viewed as the company that's keeping the foreigners at bay. Well yes, conduct and arrogance matter too. And sitting on a big pile of cash helps. That explains why a number of state AG's jumped on the anti-Microsoft bandwagon after the tobacco settlement. Finally, yes, Windows is a terrible operating system and almost everyone has an interest in seeing something better. (A confirmed Mac user, I compare Windows to the aliens in "Men in Black:" arthropod DOS stuffed into the skin of humanoid Mac.) Intel does have an incentive and the means to come up with a better operating system: Windows hurts the demand for its chips. Not surprisingly, Intel's Portland facility has 800 programmers charged with coming up with something as cool as the operating system developed by Next. Stay tuned. === [I interpret "substantial appropriable quasi-rents to be taxed away" as "campaign cash or political contributions to be expropriated as necessary by the government." --Declan] There are two reasons to go after a successful company. One possibility is that it has substantial appropriable quasi-rents to be taxed away. Even if a company's equity is high, it is not readily taxable if the assets can readily be withdrawn (e.g., Becker and Stigler's argument that Jews stayed out of agriculture because they could too easily be expropriated). The other reason for going after a successful company is to assist its competition. This may explain the attack on Microsoft ... and probably the attack on Milken as well, if you are persuaded, as I am, by Daniel Fischel's book on the case. === There has been a lot of talk about how hard Clinton has been on Microsoft. I wonder. Is it possible that Clinton has been soft on Microsoft? Hi-Tech generally has been very pro-Clinton, and contributed a lot of money to him. The fact that Justice is going after Microsoft now is not determinative. It seems to me that Microsoft was surprisingly arrogant in thinking it could get away with this blatant violation of the consent decree. THink of the Priest-Klein selection problem as applied here. PK implies that even if the judge is heavily pro-plaintiff, plaintiffs will win only 50 percent of the time in his court. The reason is that plaintiffs will bring even totally outrageous suits, knowing the judge might still rule in their favor. I suspect the same has happened with Microsoft. Confident that Clinton would block any response from Justice, they violated the consent decree. They still hope Justice will back down. So far, they are wrong (tho--has the fine been imposed yet, or has the judge delayed imposition?). The most humorous part is that Rush Limbaugh, a conservative Apple user, has been cheering for Microsoft, a notably liberal company. === > Can anybody give an efficiency explanation for this? Prima > facie, it is monopolizing conduct. Microsoft's absurd excuses are > that (a) Explorer is an integral part of Windows 95, and (b) > Allowing Netscape to come up automatically would spoil the integrity > of Windows 95. Microsoft's behavior is indeed puzzling. You would think that even though Windows has such a large market share, Microsoft would wish to enhance Window's appeal even further by making it as easy as possible for those who prefer Netscape to access Netscape easily. But, regardless of the wisdom of Microsoft's tactics, given what Eric reports about the DOJ's complaint against Microsoft, why the mighty brouhaha? Do computer users really need federal forces to help them put Netscape's icon on their Windows screen? === The DOJ wants Microsoft to be found in contempt for violating the '95 consent decree (Section IV (E)(i) of the Final Judgement) which prevents Microsoft from requiring OEM manufacturers to license other Microsoft products as a condition of recieving a license to install Windows '95 on the computers they produce -- is this not what "bundling" means? The icon business arises because three firms asked Microsoft to ammned the license agreement to allow them to remove the IE icon from the desktop and Microsoft refused to grant their requests. This is mentioned in the DOJ request for an order of contempt, but if Internet Explorer really is considered a separate product (and the DOJ claims it is) then Microsoft really isn't allowed to require firms to license it if they license Windows 95. Microsoft insists that requiring the licensing of Internet Explorer, sans icon, is still requiring the licensing of Internet Explorer, something they aren't allowed to do under the consent decree if IE is a separate product, but that it isn't a separate product so everything is just ducky. They also add that if Internet Explorer, sans icon, isn't licensed Windows won't work. They think it's silly to claim that the consent decree requires them to sell Internet Explorer, sans icon, as a part of Windows but prevents them from selling Internet Explorer, with icon, as a part of Windows. As to the why of it all... Microsoft believes, and the government agrees, that the browser itself is the seed of a new sort of operating system which will become a viable alternative to Windows 95. Microsoft says it wants reshape Windows into this new sort of operating system, the DOJ seems to want someone else to come up with it. From the DOJ's request to show cause why Microsoft should not be found in civil contempt: "Microsoft's aggressive and multi-faceted marketing of the Internet Explorer browser reflects its intense competition with other, competing Internet browsers, primarily the "Navigator" browser produced by Netscape Communications Corporation ("Netscape"). Microsoft believes that the success of competing browsers poses a serious, incipient threat to its operating system monopoly. Indeed, as Microsoft fears, browsers have the potential to become both alternative "platforms" on which various software applications and programs can run and alternative "interfaces" that PC users can employ to obtain and work with such applications and programs. Significantly, competing browsers operate not only on Windows, but also on a variety of other operating systems. Microsoft fears that over time growing use and acceptance of competing browsers as alternative platforms and interfaces will reduce the significance of the particular underlying operating system on which they are running, thereby "commoditizing" the operating system." And it's really hard for me to read this in any way other than "Microsoft is starting to realize that a web based operating system would be a better product than Windows 95 and is trying to create such an operating system, but we don't want them to because they're a monopoly." === > And about Congressional consistency: Let's suppose that Congress in July > of 1890 did indeed intend the Sherman Act to help consumers. Surely any > institution so fickle as to go from being consumers' friend to being > consumers' foe in a mere three months (by October 1890 when it hiked tariff > rates) is not an institution to be trusted with the awesome power to decide > which business practices do and do not constitute anticompetitive behavior. I would add: Why would anyone expect a Congress (1) in which a single majority party leader appointed the chairmen of each legislative committee (2) that used its committees to appoint the vast majority of federal workers (3) operating in an environment in which the pressure group had not yet emerged, to serve consumers? There is not only an antitrust myth, there is a myth among economists that the legislators of the period had any reason to make decisions based on the logic of economics. We might call this the legislature myth. The antritrust myth and the legislature myth seem to be stories we tell our little children in order to avoid scaring them. Unfortunately, many professional economists treat their students like little kids. === > So, you and I also agree that Congress often does stupid things. But what > is the alternative - do you know of a better system? Yep. A common-law system with no antitrust statutes. === From declan at well.com Wed Jan 14 17:13:23 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:13:23 +0800 Subject: More on the POLITICS of antitrust Message-ID: Forwarded === At some points over the last decade, I would have said that the large-firm monopolization case was dead. We had learned our lesson - big-time trust-busting didn't pay. Mergers were OK and so were businesses that succeed by competing hard. The few initiatives didn't go very far: the early 1990s FTC investigation of Microsoft deadlocked; DOJ then wrested a largely cosmetic consent decree in 1994/95; the FTC looked at but then walked away from Intel. The political will to do any real damage seemed to be lacking, perhaps because these were successful export industries. Not so now. The events of the last few months suggest that the outlook is more serious both for Microsoft and for Intel, and further down the road, for firms like Cisco (king of the network routers) or Sun (if Java ever lives up to its hype). Money attracts politics (hence the bevy of attorney generals in action now), and we were foolish to expect otherwise. The implicit policy of going easy on America's information technology success stories has been abandoned. Aside from the competitor complaints and aside from the simple populist attack on wealth, another factor may play a role: populist resentment of the "digerati" (those who are computer savvy). (I intend a parallel with the late 1920s, when despite the general boom, large segments - the buggy whip manufacturers - complained about "profitless prosperity," laying the political groundwork for Hoover's veiled New Dealism. No, I am not predicting another Great Depression.) === From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 14 17:39:48 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:39:48 +0800 Subject: [POLITICS] 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... In-Reply-To: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114091307.0089e180@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 12:45 PM 1/13/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Do you accept that the Constitution of the United States of America is the >supreme law of the land and therefore the ultimate legal authority within >its borders? Jim - you and I are political theorists, and you're asking a political question, though I'm not sure what kind of question you mean. Froomkin's a law professor, though he's also got political opinions. To a lawyer, the answer is that the Constitution ultimately means whatever you can talk the Supreme Court into saying it means, or whatever you or your opponents can talk a lower court into saying if the court's opinion is strong enough that the loser decides it's not worth spending the resources to appeal, and the Supreme Court has decided all sorts of things over the years depending on the political climate. Many legal and political theorists have opinions about Marbury vs. Madison and the other cases in which the Supreme Court decided that the Constitution said they're the ones who get to decide what the Constitution means; you may have opinions about that, or you could be asking Froomkin what he thinks about it. On the other hand, the Constitution is a political compromise between a bunch of long-dead politicians, in which they offered the public a deal that they'd mostly stick within its limits if they agreed not to ignore or overthrow them. So you could be asking if he thinks it's a good compromise, or you could be asking if he's a Loyal American who agrees not to overthrow or ignore the Constitution (as opposed to one of them pinko Commies), or you could be asking if he's a Loyal American who believes the Government isn't sticking to their end of the bargain and therefore deserves to be overthrown. Or you could be asking a Lysander Spooner question about whether he thinks a bunch of promises made by a bunch of long-dead politicians have any authority over either the politicians or the people today. So which question are you asking, and why? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 14 17:39:52 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:39:52 +0800 Subject: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114173613.007c8100@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 09:59 AM 1/14/98 +0000, Ross Anderson wrote: >Scratch Monkey proposes building an Eternity service using the Stego >File System, provided an anonymous broadcast channel exists - it's >assumed that alt.anonymous.messages will do the job. > >I suspect that wide deployment of Eternity would lead to this group >being closed down. We need a more robust anonymous broadcast >channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? Usenet is useful for this because flood routing works well, and because millions of people send hundreds of megabytes a day of cover traffic, and tens or hundreds of thousands of machines are connected to it, so any individual machine connecting or retrieving traffic from it is not suspicious. It's also useful because forgery is easy and tracing is tedious, and because there's no central control in spite of the occasional cabals. If we build a sub-usenet to carry our traffic, it's easy to build good flood routing (and most of the tools can be reused), but it isn't easy to get millions of users and thousands of machines of cover traffic to piggyback on unless you either create something new and really cool, or unless you find something already cool, decentralized, and loud to piggyback on that doesn't make your traffic noticeable. Some directions to look: - Stego inside Voice-over-IP - (Ron Rivest's suggestion) This can either work because yet another phone call isn't very suspicious, though traffic analysis is a possibility, or you can develop the Killer Voice App for the Masses which does store&forward of its own bits without telling them. - IRC is one possibility, though I don't know how big it is. - CU-SeeMe reflectors are fun, and you can stego a lot of traffic inside your pictures. - Ship Anonymizers with every copy of Apache (or Apache-SSL), which is the most popular web server in the net. - Webcam Stego for webcams with high-entropy changing pictures, e.g. cloudy skies or oceans rather than mostly-static coffeepots. Adam Back's idea of piggybacking on gaming nets could be among the more interesting approaches, at least for games that don't have a central control system. In general, I'd guess that the limits of stego are that you can't really hide more than about 10% contraband inside your cover material, and for some methods it's a lot less. If you assume the typical user has a 28.8 line, you can get maybe the equivalent of 2400 bps of real traffic. Fine for banking; a bit rough for selling lots of large images, too slow for live speech. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 17:53:22 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:53:22 +0800 Subject: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150219.UAA03045@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:36:13 -0800 > Original-From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? > - CU-SeeMe reflectors are fun, and you can stego a lot of traffic > inside your pictures. The problem here is the processor overhead requied to take advantage of a high frame rate. The startup costs are gonna be a bear. > Adam Back's idea of piggybacking on gaming nets could be > among the more interesting approaches, at least for games > that don't have a central control system. The problem here is that most gamers are responce-sensitive. They'll begin to wonder at some point where all that extra bandwidth is going. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 18:04:37 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:04:37 +0800 Subject: [POLITICS] 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150229.UAA03125@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:13:07 -0800 > Original-From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: [POLITICS] 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... > > you and I are political theorists, and you're asking a political question, > though I'm not sure what kind of question you mean. Actualy I am more interested in the why's and wherefor's of the actual application and less in the theory. If the issue was only theoretical there wouldn't be over a million people in US jails and the other various excesses that are currently permitted. That is far from theoretical. > To a lawyer, the answer is that the Constitution ultimately means > whatever you can talk the Supreme Court into saying it means, That is one of the problem with the current approach. The Constitution is not taken to mean anything. A fundamental flaw, theoreticaly or practicaly. It is considered a document written by a bunch of long dead guys with little if any application for todays social structures. > So which question are you asking, and why? I'm asking Dr. Froomkin whether he accepts the Constitution as the defining document of the government (not just the courts which is implicit but unstated in your various questions) of the United States. I apologize if the question was unclear. I had intended to structure it in such a way that it was absolutely clear - it is a yes/no question after all. Why? Because I want to know. The answer would provide insight and might provide further information for future strategies. There is an old saying: Know thy enemy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 18:15:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:15:50 +0800 Subject: Bruce Sterling afficianado's... Message-ID: <199801150244.UAA03187@einstein.ssz.com> FYI, Was in the bookstore today and noticed that Bruce Sterling's 'Artificial Kid' is back in print at $12.95. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 14 18:31:27 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:31:27 +0800 Subject: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:34 PM -0800 1/14/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >I wrote a little about public choice theory and the politics of antitrust >in my article last week: > > http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html > >Attached are excerpts from recent posts to a law and economics mailing list >I'm on. I'm unsure of the reposting policy, so I'm deleting authors' names. >Should be good reading anyway. I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. I inititally assumed you wrote these words, and was preparing a rebuttal (esp. to the fanciful " Intel's Portland facility has 800 programmers charged with coming up with something as cool as the operating system developed by Next. Stay tuned." piece of nonsense. But then I went back and read your "deleting author's names" line, so now I have no idea who I'm rebutting. You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." A better approach is to ask his permission, for something substantive like this piece is, and then either post his words with his name, or not post it. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au Wed Jan 14 18:35:47 1998 From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:35:47 +0800 Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: Hey all, Just wondering what people think of this product? Good, bad or ugly? Is there an international version and a US version? If so, what limitations are in the international version? Many thanks... From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 18:42:43 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:42:43 +0800 Subject: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150310.VAA03430@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:28:50 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust > I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. > You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." Does knowing the name of who wrote a piece really have any bearing on the consistency of it? Is so then there would be a clear indication that there is a fundamental flaw with anonymous remailers and their place in society. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 14 18:51:43 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:51:43 +0800 Subject: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801150219.UAA03045@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801150301.WAA08649@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801150219.UAA03045 at einstein.ssz.com>, on 01/14/98 at 08:18 PM, Jim Choate said: >The problem here is that most gamers are responce-sensitive. They'll >begin to wonder at some point where all that extra bandwidth is going. Heh, most of them are Win95 users. They should be well accustomed to unexplained degradation of performance by now. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Windows is to OS/2 what Etch-a-Sketch is to art. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNL1q9o9Co1n+aLhhAQFACwP9ExsGGgrivVAJ+TggfrVCxzSL0i2m6iHH BkOUo5OTTzwGVKxoXi20h+Eympe8jwDGRbl+KJvrkcXq/e4m9nHA9mGvac4pXEzR SjxU89vR3CA9/0GDhqOHEh5VWa4uHsrnhKxXKtVhHxy7Bq1a8QvynXH6MKoCKyN6 vjc7ctcoqzg= =oeyT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From phelix at vallnet.com Wed Jan 14 19:21:17 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:21:17 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801141503.JAA00917@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34bd581d.12139978@128.2.84.191> On 14 Jan 1998 15:16:55 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Actualy, at least according to one episode of that show on TDC that Skully >form the X-Files hosts, there are several groups who are working on just >this thing. One female researcher has extended the life of worms (admittedly >a step or two from humans) by 7 times with no apparent effect. There was a >piece on CNN late last nite about some researchers discussing this as well. >Their estimate is that it would be at least 5 years before there would be >anything available on the open market. > >There is also at least two groups working on growing specific organs. One >group (the one interviewed on the TDC show) is using plastic forms to grow >the organs in. They can apparently grow small samples of specific cells and >are looking at how to organize the growth of more complex structures such as >a kidney which would include blood-vessels and such. > >I am sorry I don't know the name of the show. If somebody out there does >please speak up. > The name of the show is "Future Fantastic". There were 4 episodes, each covering a different area. -- Phelix From blancw at cnw.com Wed Jan 14 19:22:32 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:22:32 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114191915.007f5990@cnw.com> Vladimir the MoraLogical wrote: >I don't think BWs claim that there is a difference between >immoral scientists and immoral science. immoral science is what >immoral scientists practice. what's the point? my personal point >is that if we had a culture of people who were concerned about >morality, perhaps we would have institutions that reflect >integrity. ........................................................... First the question was, what is "moral", now it must be, what is "science": what makes science, or its methods, 'scientific' - what's the difference and what's the point; is there a relation, and which is first, the chicken, or the egg (could science discover the truth about morality, and would that make the science moral, or the scientists)? Of course, if people were more moral, we would have institutions which reflected that integrity. The problem is, how could they be made to become so, and what type of methods, used toward that end, would be moral? .. Blanc From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Wed Jan 14 19:46:31 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:46:31 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114135342.008c9d80@alaska.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Crisavec wrote: > > All I'm saying is that not EVERYONE who collects a government paycheck has > "diminished mental capacity" I know several people with genius level IQ's > that simply don't care where they work....And that's something to remember... > > >> > > >> >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie > >> >evidence of diminished mental capacity. > >> > >> Don't bet on.... > >> > >> > >> There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the > >> blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or > >> the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> complete idiots and those of us who are. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> > >> > >Who's side are you on? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > > > --Dave > Some days, it just isn't worth the effort anymore. Sigh. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Jan 14 19:53:19 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:53:19 +0800 Subject: CFP: DECEPTION, FRAUD and TRUST in AGENT SOCIETIES Workshop at AA'98 Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text To: e$@vmeng.com Subject: CFP: DECEPTION, FRAUD and TRUST in AGENT SOCIETIES Workshop at AA'98 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:30:24 -0500 From: Mary Ellen Zurko Sender: Precedence: Bulk DECEPTION, FRAUD and TRUST in AGENT SOCIETIES Workshop at the Second International Conference on Autonomous Agents (AA'98) FINAL CALL FOR PAPERS Description of the workshop: The aim of the workshop is to bring together researchers that can contribute to a better understanding of trust and deception in agent societies. Most agent models assume secure and reliable communication to exist between agents. However, this ideal situation is seldom met in real life. Therefore, many techniques (e.g. contracts, signatures, long-term personnel relationships) have been evolved over time to detect and prevent deception and fraud in human communication, exchanges and relations, and hence to assure trust between agents. In recent research on electronic commerce trust has been recognized as one of the key factors for successful electronic commerce adoption. In electronic commerce problems of trust are magnified, because agents reach out far beyond their familiar trade environments. Also it is far from obvious whether existing paper-based techniques for fraud detection and prevention are adequate to establish trust in an electronic network environment where you usually never meet your trade partner physically, and where messages can be read or copied a million times without leaving any trace. Trust building is more than secure communication via electronic networks, as can be obtained with, for example, public key cryptography techniques. For example, the reliability of information about the status of your trade partner has very little to do with secure communication. With the growing impact of electronic commerce distance trust building becomes more and more important, and better models of trust and deception are needed. One trend is that in electronic communication channels extra agents, the so-called Trusted Third Parties, are introduced in an agent community that take care of trustbuilding among the other agents in the network. For example, in some cases the successful application of public key cryptography critically depends on trusted third parties that issue the keys. Although we do not focus in this workshop on techniques for secure communication (e.g. public key cryptography), we would welcome analyses about the advantages and limitations of these techniques for trustbuilding. The notion of trust is definitely important in other domains of agents' theory, beyond that of electronic commerce. It seems even foundational for the notion of "agency" and for its defining relation of acting "on behalf of". So, trust is relevant also in HC interaction; consider the relation between the user and her/his personal assistant (and, in general, her/his computer). But it is also critical for modeling groups and teams, organisations, coordination, negotiation, with the related trade-off between local/individual utility and global/collective interest; or in modelling distributed knowledge and its circulation. In sum, the notion of trust is crucial for all the major topics of Multi-Agent systems. Thus what is needed is a general and principled theory of trust, of its cognitive and affective components, and of its social functions. Analogously the study of deception not only is very relevant for avoiding practical troubles, but it seems really foundational for the theory of communication. First, because it challenges Grice's principles of linguistic communication; second, because the notion of "sign" itself has been defined in semiotics in relation to deception: "In principle, Semiotics is the discipline studying whatever can be used for lying" (U. Eco). Thus not only practical defences from deception (like reputations, guaranties, etc.), but also a general and principled theory of deception and of its forms (including fraud) are needed. We would encourage an interdisciplinary focus of the workshop as well as the presentation of a wide range of models of deception, fraud and trust(building). Just to mention some examples; AI models, BDI models, cognitive models, game theory, and also management science theories about trustbuilding. Suggested topics include, but are not restricted to: * models of deception and of its functions * models of trust and of its functions * models of fraud * role of trust and trusted third parties (TTP) in electronic commerce * defensive strategies and mechanisms * ways to detect and prevent deception and fraud WORKSHOP ORGANIZATION The full-day workshop will be aimed at creating an informal atmosphere for stimulating discussions, interdisciplinary exchange and deep understanding of each other's pespective. We plan to have both: Paper presentations: Long presentations (25-30 min) of the accepted papers, plus 10-15 minutes for discussion (possibly with discussants). Plenary discussion at the end. Panel sessions: A couple of topics will be selected for a focused discussion. Some of the attendees will be requested to participate as panelists. The panels chairs will circulate prior to the workshop a list of questions for the panelists. The accepted papers will be published in the workshop proceedings. The publication of a revised version of the accepted papers is being negotiated with a high quality publisher. SUBMISSION: CRITERIA, FORMATS, PROCEDURE The workshop welcomes submissions of original, high quality papers addressing issues that are clearly relevant to trust, deception and fraud in agent-based systems, either from a theoretical or an applied perspective. Papers will be peer reviewed by at least two referees from a group of reviewers selected by the workshop organizers. Submitted papers should be new work that has not been published elsewhere or is not about to be published elsewhere. Paper submissions: will include a full paper and a separate title page with the title, authors (full address), a 300-400 word abstract, and a list of keywords. The length of submitted papers must not exceed 12 pages including all figures, tables, and bibliography. All papers must be written in English. * The authors must send by email the title page of their paper by January 15th. * Submissions must be send electronically, as a postscript or MSword format file, by January 20th. * The authors must also airmail one hard copy of their paper to two of the organizers as soon as possible after the electronic submission. * No submissions by fax or arriving after the deadline will be accepted. SUBMISSION ADDRESS for the electronic submission Rino Falcone falcone at pscs2.irmkant.rm.cnr.it tel. +39 - 6 - 860 90 211 for the airmail hard copy Babak Sadighi Firozabadi Department of Computing - Imperial College 180 Queen's Gate - London SW7 2BZ - U.K. and (notice "and") Cristiano Castelfranchi National Research Council - Institute of Psychology Viale Marx, 15 - 00137 Roma - ITALY tel +39 6 860 90 518 IMPORTANT DATES Deadline for the electronic title page January 15, 1998 Deadline for Paper Submission January 20, 1998 Notification of Acceptance/Rejection March 1, 1998 Deadline for camera-ready version April 1, 1998 Workshop May 9, 1998 PROGRAM COMMITTEE Phil Cohen Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering, Oregon Inst. of Science and Tech., USA Robert Demolombe CERT/ONERA, France Andrew J I Jones Dept. of Philosophy - Univ. of Oslo, Norway Anand Rao Australian AI Institute, Melbourne, Australia Munindar Singh Dept. of Computer Science - North Carolina State University, USA Chris Snijders Dept. of Sociology, Utrecht, The Netherlands Gilad Zlotkin VP Engineering, Israel Gerd Wagner Inst.f.Informatik - Univ. Leipzig, Germany Cristiano Castelfranchi (co-chair) National Research Council - Institute of Psychology- Rome, Italy Yao-Hua Tan (co-chair) EURIDIS - Erasmus University - Rotterdam - The Netherlands Rino Falcone (co-organizer) National Research Council - Institute of Psychology- Rome, Italy Babak Sadighi Firozabadi (co-organizer) Department of Computing - Imperial College - London - UK ========== Rino Falcone IP - CNR National Research Council Division of "Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Modeling and Interaction" Viale Marx, 15 00137 ROMA email: falcone at pscs2.irmkant.rm.cnr.it or falcone at vaxiac.iac.rm.cnr.it tel: ++39 6 86090.211 fax: ++39 6 86090.214 ========== -- See for list info & archives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ info at hyperion.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce http://www.c2.net/ stronghold at c2.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Like e$? Help pay for it! For e$/e$pam sponsorship or donations, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From declan at well.com Wed Jan 14 20:00:11 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:00:11 +0800 Subject: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim, Keep in mind that each post came from a different author, with perhaps one or two exceptions. With regard to the names, I know of no formal list policy, law, or custom that would stop me from forwarding with names attached. However, I thought it might stifle discourse on a relatively intimate list if folks thought their posts were blasted around the Net to thousands. I was my judgment call, and I make no excuses. Take the ideas for what they're worth. -Declan At 18:28 -0800 1/14/98, Tim May wrote: >At 4:34 PM -0800 1/14/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>I wrote a little about public choice theory and the politics of antitrust >>in my article last week: >> >> http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html >> >>Attached are excerpts from recent posts to a law and economics mailing list >>I'm on. I'm unsure of the reposting policy, so I'm deleting authors' names. >>Should be good reading anyway. > >I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. I >inititally assumed you wrote these words, and was preparing a rebuttal >(esp. to the fanciful " Intel's Portland facility has 800 programmers >charged with coming up with something as cool as the operating system >developed by Next. Stay tuned." piece of nonsense. > >But then I went back and read your "deleting author's names" line, so now I >have no idea who I'm rebutting. > >You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." > >A better approach is to ask his permission, for something substantive like >this piece is, and then either post his words with his name, or not post it. > >--Tim May > > >The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. >"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 14 20:21:56 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:21:56 +0800 Subject: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801150310.VAA03430@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801150432.XAA09418@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801150310.VAA03430 at einstein.ssz.com>, on 01/14/98 at 09:10 PM, Jim Choate said: >Forwarded message: >> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:28:50 -0800 >> From: Tim May >> Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust >> I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. >> You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." >Does knowing the name of who wrote a piece really have any bearing on the >consistency of it? Is so then there would be a clear indication that >there is a fundamental flaw with anonymous remailers and their place in >society. Of course there is bearing on who the author is. This is the foundation behind reputation capital. The existance of reputation capital does not present any flaws on anonymous remailers, their documents are just devoid of any such capital (positive or negative). Do we really need a rehash of this? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Windows? WINDOWS?!? Hahahahahehehehehohohoho... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNL2APY9Co1n+aLhhAQETXQQAtSqorI96ZhHcsIRhdB+R2Mw1U4euTBDr xVnVrb+VRSV+HdkWY2DtQzUV0AAEi2JcxqpqxHbglUH5crs5x3j2/9tGB0NzW45c m9MhI8BV1RmRYQWzKx4baEvk6+0oj64ViAA44nzs+8RKE8Tkn50n0NusGyQikX+B SR3OWJT2Pvc= =0jqV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From waynerad at oz.net Wed Jan 14 21:17:29 1998 From: waynerad at oz.net (Wayne Radinsky) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:17:29 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <01BD2130.FFFF2520@sense-sea-pm6-7.oz.net> The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist al all in any absolute sense, at least as far as science is concerned. If you declare, for example, that "murder" is "wrong" you are always left with dilemmas, such as whether soldiers who kill during a war are doing something "wrong". According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including scientists, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. "Fit" means that an organism is well adapted to it's environment, so "maximizing inclusive genetic fitness" means having the maximum number of offspring which are themselves fit. Keep in mind that all natural selection really does is decide which genes are allowed to propagate, and since genes are just digital information stored on DNA molecules, what we call "life" is really just a complex interaction of matter/energy which determines which bits of information continue to exist over time. The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral people, in general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary psychologists call reciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both parties benefit if they are in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most situations are non-zero-sum and the benefits are so great, everyone has a stake in promoting themselves as a good reciprocal altruist, in other words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is how natural selection explains the existence of the concept of "morality". So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own inclusive fitness. However, it may profit them if everyone else believes they live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity. Natural selection has created human beings, and the concept of "morality" in our minds, because moral justifications benefit the people promoting them -- which ultimately benefits their genes. The only way out is to believe in the afterlife, and religion, and that life has meaning beyond the genes and material world. Doing so doesn't make moral dilemmas go away, and you never know, people may just be believing such things for the benefit of genes, after all natural selection has no real concern for "truth". Wayne ---------- From: Blanc[SMTP:blancw at cnw.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 7:20 PM To: waynerad at oz.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality >X-Authentication-Warning: netcom5.netcom.com: vznuri at localhost didn't use HELO protocol >To: Tim May >cc: Bill Stewart , Blanc , > cypherpunks at cyberpass.net, vznuri at netcom5.netcom.com >Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality >Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 15:07:48 -0800 >From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > >timmy predictably states the case for moral relativism. > >>I think it's an error to use "moral" or "immoral" as a modifier for "science." >> >>It's a matter of opinion/ethics as to whether some science is "for immoral >>purposes," but calling something "immoral science" is fraught with trouble. >> >>To a vegetarian, any science related to meat production is "immoral science." > >well, the concept of "criminality" is likewise fraught with trouble. >what is criminal and what is not? obviously some definitions stretch >the limits. is a jaywalker a criminal? a political dissident? ok, how >about an axe murderer? similarly, I think your predictable opposition >to the use of the word "immoral" is specious. > >moreover, I think such a misunderstanding, or worldview, is >detrimental to human welfare in general. I think all the evil >government scientists I've been referring to recently would >very much agree with you on rejecting ideas of "morality" and >"conscience". a person does not need an infallible definition >of morality to navigate the world, imho, but a person that has >none, or rejects any such attempt, is part of the problem and >not part of the solution, imho. > >>Personally, I don't view scientific experiments done on condemned prisoners >>as immoral. If a human being has already been sentenced to die, and, for >>example, accepts some payment (perhaps for his heirs) to die in some >>scientifically interesting way, why call it "immoral"? > >oh, well, lets see, you have a very obvious glitch in your reasoning. >you presume the prisoner gives his permssion. now lets see, assume he >doesn't? just to pop a hypothetical example out of the blue, >say someone named timmy gets arrested for gun violations and >gets thrown in jail temporarily. would it be immoral for the >police to remove his organs? perhaps without his permission? >perhaps without anesthetic? if not immoral, what? criminal? criminal >but not immoral? > >>While I would not have, I hope, worked in a Nazi death camp, the science >>obtained is undeniably real science, some of the only solid data we have on >>freezing humans, on exposing them to pathogens, etc. > >I've seen your defense of these experiments before-- its a topic of >interest for you for obvious reasons; it presents a possible glitch >in your moral relativism. > >I don't think BWs claim that there is a difference between >immoral scientists and immoral science. immoral science is what >immoral scientists practice. what's the point? my personal point >is that if we had a culture of people who were concerned about >morality, perhaps we would have institutions that reflect >integrity. > >contrary to most here, I believe that our institutions >are correctly representing the people of a country-- their thoughts, >their motivations, their concerns. its key to the philosophy of >disenfranchisement, apathy, and nihilism (and anarchism) to >claim that the government is not representing the people. what >is the evidence for this? > >because the government is corrupt, >the people are not necessarily corrupt? because the government >is greedy and full of powermongers, the population is not >full of greedy powermongers who would do the same given the >opportunity? government is a mirror into our psyches that >few people care to gaze on, precisely because we are not >the fairest of them all. > >we've got the government we deserve, and it reflects our >own pathologies within our psyches back to us. it reflects our >laziness and apathy, our cynicism, our alienation, our >withdrawal. and it takes a person who can master themselves >to face up to this simple truth-- something that most everone of our >country has failed to admit. > >when we begin to ask questions like "what is integrity" and >"what is moral" and come up with serious answers, our world >will improve. it will degenerate otherwise, and has given us >a tremendous existence proof of that fact to date. > >but just remember, again, that I'm aimlessly ranting here, and there's no >need to take any of this seriously > > > From frantz at netcom.com Wed Jan 14 21:27:29 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:27:29 +0800 Subject: Electric Communities notion of identity Message-ID: Tim may wrote: >I haven't checked on them in the last few months, but "Electric >Communities" (www.communities.com) was doing some interesting work on >adding security and market mechanism extensions to Java, in a superset >language they called "E." > >Many Cypherpunk list members, past and present worked on aspects of this, >including Chip Morningstar (one of the founders), Doug Barnes, Norm Hardy, >Bill Frantz, Mark Miller, etc. They can speak up and say more. E is a language which supports optimistic distributed programming. It produces .class files which run on unmodified Java Virtual Machines. More information is available from http://www.communities.com Perhaps of more interest to cypherpunks is the model of identity implemented in what is called today EC-Habitats, our graphical "world". (See the web pages for more details.) The model is quite similar to the model used by James A. Donald's Crypto Kong. Identity is a public key. You prove who you are by showing that you hold the private key corresponding to that public key. All of this key stuff is hidden by the user interface. What the user sees is: You meet someone "in world" and give them a nickname. When you meet them again, the software knows that it is the same "person", and refers to them by your nickname for them. Thus people can develop and maintain reputations for each other. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | All politicians should ski.| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 14 22:35:10 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:35:10 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150703.BAA04343@einstein.ssz.com> Note that any errors in transcription are mine, I had to re-edit this to get it to fit on a 80 column screen. Forwarded message: > From: Wayne Radinsky > Subject: RE: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:32:15 -0800 > The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist > al all in any absolute sense, Morality is an individuals or societal groups beliefs of right and wrong. Of course there is no more absolute right morality than there is a right flavor of ice cream, this entire line of reasoning is a non sequitar. Ethics is the issues of what is correct or permissible in relation to a particular human activity such as scientific research or law. When you use 'science' and 'morality' in a comparison you are in actuality comparing apples and oranges. Science is related to *how* one does a particular activity, it is not concerned in the least with *why* that activity should (not) be done in the first place. Science and its philosophy are *not* applicable to all areas of human discourse anymore than the Bible is applicable as a methodology to study quantum physics or aerodynamics. > at least as far as science is concerned. Science isn't concerned with right, wrong, morality, etc. It *is* concerned with a systematic way to ask questions in a *specific* area of discourse. To apply science to religion is as much a disservice to science and religion as it would be to try to apply it to art. > According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including > scientists, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. Exactly whose theory or principle of natural selection? At the current time I am aware of several different theories that fit the data but which in many aspects are mutualy exclusive. This is entirely too broad a statement to have reasonable merit. We simply don't know enough about what is going on with the processes of life to justify this sort of leap. > Keep in mind that all natural selection really does is decide which genes > are allowed to propagate, Natural selection isn't doing anything. It is a term we apply to a process we observe occurring. That process seems to occur at several levels besides just the genes. > and since genes are just digital information stored on DNA molecules I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. We start with the base pairs, which really are informationaly isolated from the codons which are triplets of base pairs which form a 'word' in the genetic code. It is of some import to realize that the genetic code itself is *not* dependant on the actual mechanism of expression, in other words you can talk about the genetic langauge without any reference to the base pairs themselves. It is the codons that are important. There is a fundamental symmetry break at that level. Each of the codons is mapped to one of 20 amino acids. Since there are 4 bases arranged in 3's there are 64 combinations. This means that for any particular amino acid there is more than one way to code it. There are also several 'stop' codes which break the transcription process as well. >, what we call "life" is really just a complex > interaction of matter/energy which determines which bits of information > continue to exist over time. That works equaly well as a definition of the cosmos. Keep this up and you'll become a pantheist...;) > The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral > people, in general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary > psychologists call reciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both > parties benefit if they are in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most > situations are non-zero-sum and the benefits are so great, everyone has > a stake in promoting themselves as a good reciprocal altruist, in other > words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is how natural selection > explains the existence of the concept of "morality". Oh boy... Not all moralities or religions accept the premise of altruistic behaviour. Further, if you look at the prisoners game, you actualy accrue more from intermittent moral behaviour than from consistent moral behaviour. Human morality has no place in any consistent theory of natural selection that I have ever seen. Please explain how a moral theory as you propose will increase the participants likelyhood for reproduction? Further, if you look at primate research (both non-human and human) what you find is a tendency for promiscuity in both sexes. Males tend to be 'in heat' at all times while females (at least when they are just entering the mating group) tend to follow a estrus or lunar based cycle. Recent studies of primates in Africa have found that the previous theory that band members don't intermingle is actualy incorrect. Upon extended monitoring they find that when the females go into heat each month they sneak off and mate with outlying members of other bands (who are usualy un-paired males). They intentionaly hide this activity from their band mates because if caught they will face a physical assault and potentialy death. This raises the question of whether chimps have morality under your view because it is clearly a measure of right and wrong. Are you willing to give chimps some sort of equal status to humans as a result? Studies of human females find this same sort of behaviour in the young just entering the mating pool. Studies find that young women tend to wear more provocative clothing and explore non-familiar peer groups in relation to their menstrual cycle. > So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit > humanity. Absolutely, unfortunately the fallicy with such an assertion have nothing to do with the reasons you expound. > They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own > inclusive fitness. So being a scientist increases ones probability for mating? Please be so kind as to offer some proof. Do scientist tend to have more offspring than non-scientist? I think you will find that the actual studies show that the more intelligent and well educated tend to have *fewer* children. This would seem to run contrary to your hypothesis. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From rdl at mit.edu Wed Jan 14 22:44:16 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:44:16 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: > man in the middle attack on people signing code How would you do this? There is code. You sign that code with your personal pgp key, which you are assumed to keep secure. Cases: A) The code is authentic, but backdoored: you will look at it when verifying it and refuse to sign it, optionally posting how it is flawed to the world. B) The code is not the actual code used in the product, but unbackdoored: In this case, you sign it, but when someone tries to compile, the real code is not signed, and thus the attacker is no better off. C) The code is not the actual code used in the product, and is backdoored: The NSA is really stupid, then. D) The code is the authentic code, and is unbackdoored: you win. The only attacks would be if you could sneak a bug by the verifiers. With modern execution environments, it is *possible* there could be unintended consequences to almost anything. That's why I think one of the first pieces of code verified should be the JVM. Another attack would be having 5 NSA agents sign a piece of code, but you could prevent that by having the list made up of distinct well known individuals who are unlikely to all be bought -- if the NSA wants to give $100m each to the most frequent 100 posters on cypherpunks, I want to get in line :) -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From wabe at smart.net Wed Jan 14 23:41:33 1998 From: wabe at smart.net (wabe) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:41:33 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <003701bd21a0$acd58400$cf8588d1@justice> I like Crypto Kong. Easy to use, and cool name and little rose insignia. Private Idaho, on the other hand, was a pain and eventually I gave up. (I tried to install and use the 32 bit version.) -wabe --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H bPOgfo2WuJqphHEKAhe/nQIPFt1T6nTh8Ry5v9lp 47roQ27BeTu2jFYXmJJoIWdG9Lvnx+zmSiHoqscae From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 00:09:53 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:09:53 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150835.CAA04627@einstein.ssz.com> Sorry Ryan, I'll need more context to answer this one. Would it be too much to ask for more than a fragment of one sentence...:( Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 15 Jan 1998 01:41:01 -0500 > > man in the middle attack on people signing code > > How would you do this? There is code. You sign that code with your personal > pgp key, which you are assumed to keep secure. Cases: I've probably sent out somewhere in the neighborhood of 40+ messages in the last two days, several have related to signing documents in different contexts. I don't recognize this particular fragment. Sorry, I don't memorize my traffic nor do I keep archives of it and I'm way to lazy to go searching the cypherpunks archives at 2am. I'm assuming this has something to do with the eternity server/black_net discussion that has been going on. So I'll take a stab at it, not that it may make any sense in the actual context ... - You generate the code and sign it - You deliver the signed code to a data haven server of some architecture (note that you don't know where it is or who runs it, I'll assume you use some particular usenet newsgroup as your drop point) - Somebody else comes along and sees a list of available items and selects yours (again through a usenet based request mechanism). - They receive the code signed with 'your' key and decide they want to verify the signing (through yet another usenet channel). The problem with this model is in the second step. What is to keep them from removing your signatory, moding the code, and then resigning it. If the recipient desides they want to check the sign they have two choices: - select an anonymous key that has been previously stored on some sort of key server. (if they are running a eternity server blind they could be running a key server blind as well, it follows that at least some of the users of your software wanting to verify the signing will go to this server and hence have corrupted code, if we're using the usenet model this is even more likely since they could be running a feed point for other usenet feeds downstream and hence capture many if not all requests for the product, especialy if they were the only server to actualy carry a copy.) - contact you the author directly (I'm assuming of course you were silly enough to put a publicly available key directly traceable to yourself on it in the first place) in which case they simply intercede from a upstream tap and verify their request in your behalf. In either case there is no guarantee that what comes off the server is what you the source put on there. Hence the long term security of the key is compromised. In particular, in the second case, since they already know who provided the illicit data to the server there motive is clearly to track the users. This breaks the anonymity of the data haven. Implicit in a workable data haven model is the goal of both source and sink anonymity. This means that any signed data on the server must provide a mechanism for the user to verify the sign by access to a suitable key to generate the appropriate hash and compare it to the one that the server delivered. If they match you should have the correct unadulterated document. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From pghmain at pgh.org Thu Jan 15 01:19:19 1998 From: pghmain at pgh.org (Admin Pgh Plan) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:19:19 +0800 Subject: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: <34BDC364.46C2@alt.net> Message-ID: Let us concentrate on getting Lewis fired rather than killing him. Killing Nortel would be a much better idea. On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Dr. Zeus wrote: > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:05:56 -0500 > From: "Dr. Zeus" > To: freedom-knights at jetcafe.org > Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com, usenet at pgh.org > Subject: Chris Lewis's death? > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > I tried sending an anonymous test article to comp.org.cauce via the CRACKER > > remailer. Sure enough, the Gypsie Jew Zorch forged a cancel for my article: > > > > >From: scott at zorch.sf-bay.org (Scott Hazen Mueller) > > >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce > > >Subject: cancelled posting > > >Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:25:04 -0500 > > >Organization: At Home; Salida, CA > > >Lines: 26 > > >Sender: johnl at iecc.com > > >Approved: comp.org.cauce at abuse.net > > >Message-ID: > > >Reply-To: scott at zorch.sf-bay.org > > >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com > > >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce at abuse.net > > >X-Authentication-Warning: orbit.hooked.net: Uzorch set sender to news at zorch.sf-bay.org using -f > > >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost.sf-bay.org > > >Path: ...!iecc.com!iecc.com!not-for-mail > > > > > >I have issued a cancel for the following posting to comp.org.cauce. Death > > >threats are serious business. > > > > > >Xref: zorch comp.org.cauce:378 > > >Path: zorch!news.well.com!noos.hooked.net!204.156.128.20.MISMATCH!news1.best.com > > >!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-i > > >n-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!205.238.207.65!iecc.com!iecc.co > > >m!not-for-mail > > >From: Anonymous > > >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce > > >Subject: CAUCE offers a $50,000 (canadian) reward for killing Chris Lewis, his w > > >ife, and the kid > > >Date: 30 Dec 1997 10:58:17 -0500 > > >Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY > > >Lines: 14 > > >Sender: johnl at iecc.com > > >Approved: comp.org.cauce at abuse.net > > >Message-ID: > > >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com > > >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce at abuse.net > > >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > > > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > > > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > > > remailer administrator at . > > > > My cancelled Usenet article offered a reward for killing the spammer: > > > > >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to > > >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and > > >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to > > >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa: > > > > > I think we should leave the family out of this, and instead killing > Chris Lewis, just get him fired from Nortel > > > > >483 Vances Side Road > > >Dunrobin, Ontario K0A 1T0 > > >CANADA > > >Home telephone: (613) 832-0541, > > >Office telephone: (613) 763-2935 > > > > > >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org > > >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward. > > > > This is fucking censorship! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my > > web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the > > pre-teen kids screwing. Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis. > > > > ---guy > > Just6 who is this "guy?" > From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 15 01:45:39 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:45:39 +0800 Subject: BAY AREA CYPHERPUNKS MEETING, SATURDAY 1/17, OAKLAND Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115013711.008bb9f0@popd.ix.netcom.com> The January Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday afternoon at C2 Software's office in Oakland. Agenda: Export Laws - Lee Tien and Greg Broiles Work in Progress Lots of discussion from RSA Conference. Time: 12-6pm followed by dinner - program starts at 1:00 Location: C2Net Software, Inc. 1440 Broadway Suite 700, Oakland, CA Phone: (510) 986-8770 Fax: (510) 986-8777 Public Transportation - about two blocks from the 12th St BART station. This is the best way to get there from San Francisco, and parking for BART trains is easy. :-) Driving - From South - take 880N to Broadway exit, about .9 mile, park From San Francisco - Take the Bay Bridge to Grand Ave, turn right on Telegraph and continue on Broadway. Map URL: http://www.mapblast.com/yt.hm?FAM=mapblast&CMD=GEO&SEC=find&IC=0%3A0%3A5&IC%3A=C2+Suite+700&AD2=1440+Broadway&AD3=Oakland%2C+CA Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From rdl at mit.edu Thu Jan 15 02:26:51 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:26:51 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: Jim Choate writes: > more than a fragment of one sentence...:( > I'm assuming this has something to do with the eternity server/black_net > discussion that has been going on. So I'll take a stab at it, not that it > may make any sense in the actual context ... Yes, you guessed right :) > > - You generate the code and sign it > > - You deliver the signed code to a data haven server of some architecture > (note that you don't know where it is or who runs it, I'll assume you > use some particular usenet newsgroup as your drop point) > > - Somebody else comes along and sees a list of available items and selects > yours (again through a usenet based request mechanism). > > - They receive the code signed with 'your' key and decide they want to > verify the signing (through yet another usenet channel). > > The problem with this model is in the second step. What is to keep them > from removing your signatory, moding the code, and then resigning it. If the > recipient desides they want to check the sign they have two choices: The problem reduces to one of distribution of public keys. In my model (er, actually Lenny Foner's model, in this case), you distribute something that has intrinsic verifiability -- the eternity source. So whether or not rdl's eternity-dds signing key is compromised is irrelevant to the users -- in fact, the assumption is that since I am a known target, I've been killed or compromised. So, there's this potentially untrusted code out there. People who have known public keys then inspect and sign the code. It is assumed these people have distributed their public keys far and wide, signed by lots of people, etc. As long as you can assume the "PGP web of trust", the distributed software signing thing works. I agree that the current state of PGP use is probably not enough for the "PGP web of trust" -- I've *never* used a key and found it signed by anyone I know. However, I think even the current system puts a pretty high barrier to fraud, and if there started to be fraud, people would start signing each other's keys. A keyserver serving keys like "rdl's eternity-dds release signing key" might be subject to traffic analysis, true. However, as you suggest, you could put the keyserver inside Eternity. Then, the problem just gets shifted -- now you need (a) pgp signing key(s) which has/have signed all of those keys. I think it is unreasonable to think merely signing a key (and distributing your own personal key securely) will be a felony before anything has been done with that key. More to the point, I think it is unreasonable to think the government will go after people purely for signing the source code to a piece of software -- signing does not imply you use it, does not imply that you wrote it, does not imply anything other than that you've looked at it, verified it, and signed it. The government would do just as well to track down the posters to cypherpunks and kill them. -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jan 15 04:00:43 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:00:43 +0800 Subject: BXA Wassenaar Rule Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980115115610.0109ab8c@pop.pipeline.com> BXA published today its interim rule for implementing the Wassenaar Arrangement: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.txt (354K) Or compressed, self-extracting Zip: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.exe (80K) ---------- Federal Register, 15 January 1998 [Excerpt] [[Page 2452]] Bureau of Export Administration _______________________________________________________________________ 15 CFR Parts 732, 740, 742, 743, 744, 746, 762, and 774 Implementation of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Items: Revisions to the Commerce Control List and Reporting Under the Wassenaar Arrangement; Rule DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE Bureau of Export Administration 15 CFR Parts 732, 740, 742, 743, 744, 746, 762, and 774 [Docket No. 971006239-7239-01] RIN 0694-AB35 Implementation of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Items: Revisions to the Commerce Control List and Reporting Under the Wassenaar Arrangement AGENCY: Bureau of Export Administration, Commerce. ACTION: Interim rule with request for comments. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: Representatives of thirty-three countries gave final approval July 12-13, 1996 in Vienna, Austria to establish the Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies. The thirty-three countries agreed to control all items in the List of Dual-Use Goods and Technologies with the objective of preventing unauthorized transfers. They further agreed on a target date of November 1, 1996, for implementation of the Wassenaar Lists. The purpose of this interim rule is to make the changes to the Commerce Control List necessary to implement the Wassenaar List. In addition, this interim rule imposes new reporting requirements on persons that export certain items controlled under the Wassenaar Arrangement to non-member countries in order to fulfill the information exchange requirements of the Wassenaar Arrangement. The Department of Commerce, with other concerned agencies, is reviewing the Export Administration Regulations to determine whether further changes will be required to implement the information sharing provisions of the Wassenaar Arrangement and to make the necessary adjustments to existing country groups. This rule also revises part 740 of the EAR by removing License Exception availability for certain items controlled for missile technology reasons. Although the Export Administration Act (EAA) expired on August 20, 1994, the President invoked the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and continued in effect, to the extent permitted by law, the provisions of the EAA and the EAR in Executive Order 12924 of August 19, 1994, as extended by the President's notices of August 15, 1995, August 14, 1996 and August 15, 1997. DATES: This rule is effective January 15, 1998. Comments on this rule must be received on or before February 17, 1998. ADDRESSES: Written comments should be sent to Patricia Muldonian, Regulatory Policy Division, Bureau of Export Administration, Department of Commerce, P.O. Box 273, Washington, DC 20044. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: James Lewis, Director, Office of Strategic Trade and Foreign Policy Controls, Bureau of Export Administration, Telephone: (202) 482-0092. From mark at unicorn.com Thu Jan 15 04:24:01 1998 From: mark at unicorn.com (mark at unicorn.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:24:01 +0800 Subject: Sealand (was Re: (eternity) autonomous agents) Message-ID: <884866825.4040.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com> Lucky Green wrote: >Sealand, about which I wrote about on this list before, was an example >that should be studied by the offshore advocates. Based in an old >oilrig housing platform, Victorian sea-fort, AFAIR. >some unlucky investors attempted to establish >their own country. They began issuing stamps and passports for their >"country". As any reasonable person should have expected, nobody would >move their mail and nobody recognized their passports. Which wasn't the point; the majority of those they sold were just for fun, not serious attempts at being recognized. However, I noticed a newspaper article over Christmas about a woman who's selling professional-looking passports in the names of countries which no longer exist or changed names; the intention, presumably, being that immigration officials won't realise that the passports aren't real. >They went bankrupt. I'd be interested to know where you got your information from, because both Strauss ('How to start your own country') and the Micronations Web page tell different stories; that Sealand was set up mostly for fun by a couple of guys who made a lot of money from pirate radio and it lasted at least fifteen years. Of course this doesn't detract from the main point, which is that you won't get away with offshore data-havens unless you are able to defend them against invaders; Strauss claims Sealand was invaded by some German businessmen at one point, and any such data-haven will soon be visited by cops or warships. Mark From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jan 15 06:30:51 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:30:51 +0800 Subject: AT&T Database Reveals Unlisted Names From Numbers Message-ID: Yet another reason for cash settled IP telephony? Actually, you can trace an IP address just as well, can't you?... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:06:14 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: weber.ucsd.edu: procmail set sender to rre-request at weber.ucsd.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: weber.ucsd.edu: Processed from queue /usr/spool/mqueue/rqueue Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:58:10 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Agre To: rre at weber.ucsd.edu Subject: AT&T Database Reveals Unlisted Names From Numbers Resent-From: rre at weber.ucsd.edu Reply-To: rre-maintainers at weber.ucsd.edu X-URL: http://communication.ucsd.edu/pagre/rre.html X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1803 X-Loop: rre at weber.ucsd.edu Precedence: list Resent-Sender: rre-request at weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help at weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 12:38 PST From: privacy at vortex.com (PRIVACY Forum) Subject: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #02 PRIVACY Forum Digest Wednesday, 14 January 1998 Volume 07 : Issue 02 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 10:05 PST From: lauren at vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator) Subject: AT&T Database Reveals Unlisted Names From Numbers Greetings. In a memorable scene from the 1975 film "Three Days of the Condor," CIA agent-on-the-run Joe Turner, played by Robert Redford, monitors a phone line with a telephone test set (known in telco parlance as a "butt set" or more popularly a "butt-in"). After taping and determining the touch- tone digits being dialed, he makes a call to an "operator" who provides the name and address of the party associated with that dialed number. His exchange with that operator was completely authentic. For decades telephone companies have operated "Customer Name and Address" bureaus, known colloquially as "CNA" bureaus. Presented with a phone number, the CNA operators provide name and address data, even for unlisted or non-published numbers. This service was and is ostensibly only for telephone company use. The telcos rightly considered this information sensitive, and CNA access numbers were always subject to frequent changing, but still leaked out. They were highly coveted by private detectives, phone phreaks, and others, for various investigative or even harassing purposes (few things can upset a person who thinks they have an unlisted number more than a bizarre call from an unknown person in the dead of night who knows their name...) Over the years, telephone subscribers have become more aware of the various commercial and other purposes to which their telephone listings have been subjected, and increasing percentages of folks have unlisted ("non-published" or "non-pub") numbers. In states like California, the majority of numbers are non-pub. Telephone company literature usually states that a non-pub status (for which subscribers now typically have to pay an extra monthly fee) also protects them from so-called "upside-down" listings and services--essentially published versions of CNA that provide listings in telephone number and/or house address order. Clearly the telcos realize that people are still very sensitive about their names and/or addresses being looked up by number. So it was with considerable concern late last year when I learned of an easily accessible AT&T database that provides a major portion of CNA--the provision of names from numbers, even for unlisted or non-published numbers. I have been engaged in a dialogue with various AT&T officials concerning this database since then. Getting an official response has taken some time (the holidays didn't help of course), and I've been told that I'm the first person to ever bring this issue to their attention (a familiar enough refrain when it comes to privacy issues...) The database in question is a "service" (which AT&T says is greatly appreciated by their customers) which ostensibly exists to allow automated access to number information by business customers. AT&T long distance business customers, upon calling their designated customer service number from their bills, enter a typical complex voice mail maze. After entering their main AT&T account number into the system, one of the choices available relates to "if you do not recognize a number on your bill." Choosing this option drops the user into an automated system which allows the direct entering of phone numbers. For each number entered, the system then attempts to read out (using a voice synthesizer) the name associated with that number. An option is also available to spell out the name, since text-to-speech handling of proper names can be less than optimal (remind me to tell the story of my "Touch-Tone Unix" synthesizer system from the '70's someday). The number entry/readout sequence can be repeated (apparently) as many times as desired. The need for a customer to find out who is associated with a truly unknown number on their bill can be a real one. Unfortunately, this database has a variety of negative characteristics: -- The database does not limit lookups to numbers actually on the customer's bill! Any numbers can be entered, and the system will usually provide the associated name, even if they are not on the current (or any) bill. Presence or absence from the bill is totally irrelevant. -- The database provides data for unlisted or non-published numbers just as happily as for listed numbers. This includes corporate internal numbers, modem and fax lines, residential second lines, and so on. -- For listed numbers, the database sometimes provides not the name associated with the listing, but rather the name of the *person* who is apparently the "billing contact" for the listed entity and usually has nothing whatever to do with the listing itself! To quote from the official response I received from the AT&T media relations representative with whom I have been in contact about these concerns: "As a matter of policy, AT&T safeguards customer information from unauthorized access. It is also our policy to allow business customers to access their account-billing records to check the accuracy of their records and to request changes, as necessary, by using an automated system. Until now, questions such as yours have never come up, so we want to thank you very much for bringing your concerns to our attention. ... The system has been in use for several years and, in our search for ways to improve the accuracy, timeliness and cost- effectiveness of the services we offer customers, we had already begun evaluating a number of options. Your inquiry has hastened our considerations of new ways to offer capabilities that our business customers value while safeguarding private customer information from unauthorized access. So, again, we thank you for bringing this issue to our attention." What this really means in terms of actual changes is decidedly unclear. No date is specified for any alterations, nor have they explained in any manner what sorts of customer privacy changes (if any) will be made, nor how any new system might differ from the current one. In the meantime, I have been told that they do not intend to alter the operations of the current database in any manner. I have suggested suspending or limiting the current system as a clear move to help protect telephone subscribers' privacy. AT&T has chosen not to do so. They point out that the database is not "intended" for other than the lookup of unknown numbers on the bills, and that they consider any other use to be improper. However, such improper uses will continue to be completely possible under the current system. My overall impression is that AT&T feels people aren't concerned about number to name lookups, and that AT&T doesn't see what harm such information could do in any case. This sort of "What harm could it do?" attitude is one that PRIVACY Forum readers have seen repeatedly with commercial databases of various sorts. It of course is important that persons make their feelings about such issues known once they come to light. If people don't bother to complain, faulting the commercial database policies themselves becomes considerably more problematical. Others may agree, or perhaps disagree, with AT&T's apparent attitudes about this matter. It seems likely that more persons expressing their opinion, either positive or negative about the system, would be useful to AT&T in helping to gauge public feelings about such matters. AT&T has told me specifically that the appropriate venue for such opinions would be AT&T Executive Resolution, at (908) 221-4191 (8-5 PM Eastern--I'm told that collect calls are accepted during those business hours). All too often, we see that the implementation of potentially useful services is done in a manner that produces undesirable (and often unintended) negative privacy side-effects. A key issue is to what extent an entity responds to privacy concerns, even when they might not agree with them, after they've been made aware of the issues. So far, I'm afraid that AT&T's response to this situation has not been stellar. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein Moderator, PRIVACY Forum http://www.vortex.com ------------------------------ End of PRIVACY Forum Digest 07.02 ************************ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From billp at nmol.com Thu Jan 15 06:40:50 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:40:50 +0800 Subject: Joe Bress Message-ID: <34BE198B.7852@nmol.com> Thursday 1/15/98 6:54 AM Ray Sumser Arnold Intrater Jennifer Lipnick National Academy of Public Administration 955 L'Enfant Plaza, North SW Washington, DC 20074 202-651-8062 393-0993 FAX Former NAPA employee and lawyer Joe Bress' words, "Win or lose," to me spoke in your presence in ABQ caused some additional whistleblowing on Internet. A cypherpunk, I am guessing. I stayed off Internet for one year so as to be above suspicious. The attached letter to judge Edwards was mailed July 16, 1996. And received July 18, 1996. Moorer and other retired Navy brass, at a news conference, expressed grave suspicion over the FBI's recently concluded 18-month investigation of the disaster, in which the plane disintegrated July 17, 1996, en route to Paris and plunged into the Atlantic near Long Island, killing 230. They said a military missile explosion just outside the 747's forward cabin seems the likely cause. While the timing of my letter to Edwards was merely coincidence, I am concerned that whistleblowing may constitute a danger to public safety. Please help to get this matter settled. Thanks bill Title: Navy Brass Revive Missile Theory [Email Reply] Retired Navy Brass Revives Twa Missile Theory Officers Voice Suspicions Over Fbi's Findings By John Hanchette and Billy House Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Jan. 8 called for new congressional hearings into last July's crash of TWA Flight 800. "It absolutely deserves more investigation -- a lot more," Moorer told Gannett News Service. "This time, I wouldn't let the FBI do it. I'd have the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) do it. I think Congress certainly should get more answers from the FBI." Moorer and other retired Navy brass, at a news conference, expressed grave suspicion over the FBI's recently concluded 18-month investigation of the disaster, in which the plane disintegrated July 17, 1996, en route to Paris and plunged into the Atlantic near Long Island, killing 230. They said a military missile explosion just outside the 747's forward cabin seems the likely cause. "All evidence would point to a missile," Moorer said. "All those witnesses who saw a streak that hit the airplane -- you have to assume it's a missile. In an investigation like this, you can't overlook anything." Moorer, an expert on missile weaponry, attended the news conference convened by a media critic group that scoffs at the official NTSB and FBI findings unveiled a month ago. Joseph Valiquette, FBI spokesman in New York, said the agency is "comfortable" with its conclusions that "there's no evidence a criminal act was responsible." 'A train wreck in the sky' The Navy officers -- who appeared with a veteran TWA pilot, two witnesses and members of Accuracy in Media, which coordinated the briefing -- said a new study of evidence from recovered Flight 800 data recorders rebuts the government's official story about fuel vapors exploding in a central tank of the jetliner after a spark from unknown causes. "This is either a train wreck in the sky, or an explosive device -- mid-air, outside the plane," said retired Navy Cmdr. William Donaldson, who flew 89 combat missions over Vietnam and for five years was a top Naval aviation accident investigator. Donaldson, who said he is not working for TWA or the passenger jet's manufacturer, Boeing, examined the mountain of material released in early December about the $100 million federal investigation. He particularly criticized one NTSB document reflecting flight-recorder data that was not discussed when the material was unveiled in Baltimore last month. Donaldson noted a line drawn through readings of the last five seconds of the doomed jet's flight, with a handwritten margin note reading "End of Flt. 800 DATA" -- except there are more revealing readings below it. He said he thinks this was an attempt to divert attention from the final readings on the flight recorder: "The only reason you put flight data recorders into an airplane at millions of dollars cost is to capture this last data line." He said NTSB officials later tried to convince the Navy dissidents it merely was transcript from an earlier flight -- a conclusion former TWA pilot Howard Mann said is "not possible -- it's erased -- there's just no way." The final readings show chaos in the sky -- with airspeed dropping instantly by almost 200 knots, the pitch angle jumping five degrees, altitude dropping 3,600 feet in about three seconds, the roll angle going from zero to 144 degrees (the plane almost inverted), and magnetic heading changing from 82 degrees to 163 degrees. The small vane that measures wind angle striking the nose -- situated on the left forward fuselage -- goes from 3 degrees to 106 degrees back to 30 degrees. Donaldson said all these indicate an extremely high-pressure wave coming from the lower left side of the plane's front. The measurements "indicate there was an explosion -- a big explosion -- outside the cockpit." Mann agreed with Donaldson's interpretations. Donaldson also said: * Divers found debris from the forward fuselage as much as 2,900 feet to the right of the extended flight path, suggesting it may have been propelled by an explosion from the plane's left. * Fuselage doors from near the front of the craft, later recovered, were bent and dented inward. * Subsequent tests Donaldson conducted showed fuel vapor in the empty center tank would not have been flammable enough to cause such an explosion, and there was nothing to ignite it. * More damage occurred to the left wing than the right. * The fuselage skin broke up in such a way as to suggest a pressure wave from the outside left front. "What you're looking at is the product of an explosion in the sky that totally destroyed the aircraft's ability to fly anywhere," he said. A digital animation computer rendering of the catastrophe -- prepared by the CIA for media use in early December -- sought to explain some of the physical forces on the flight data by showing the nose breaking off the huge aircraft and the body then climbing almost 3,000 feet before a huge petroleum explosion sends it fireballing into the sea. "There couldn't have been an aviator at CIA who had anything to do with that," said Donaldson. "They were laughed out of town by pilots." Eyewitness accounts Two witnesses from Long Island -- lawyer Frederick Meyer and furniture maker Richard Goss -- described what looked like a missile contrail rising upward in the sky before the TWA explosion. Goss said the FBI was interested and "very amazed," but later "there wasn't as much enthusiasm . . . I never heard from them again." Meyer, a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, was flying an Air National Guard helicopter on maneuvers when the disaster occurred in front of him: "I saw, what I swear to God, was military ordnance explode." Meyer said, "The aircraft I saw came out of the air like a stone. Nobody saw that aircraft climb a foot after it was hit. The CIA cartoon bears no similarity to what I saw." Meyer approached the FBI with his report, but said after two desultory interviews, agents never called back. He claims he knows several witnesses who called the FBI's 800 number with similar reports, but were not called back. The FBI, Donaldson said, "is holding the lid on 92 witnesses who allege they saw something go and climb to the sky. Most of those people are scared to death right now." Valiquette, the FBI spokesman, said, "We know there are always going to be people who will never accept our findings. And we're comfortable with that, too. . . . We went back and re-interviewed all those eyewitnesses. We plotted their positions, and there was a lot of analysis done. Today, we are comfortable with the results." The retired officers speculated a missile could have come from either a submarine or a buoy device developed by the Navy years ago to float attack missiles into position for launch from miles away. "One vital question we haven't attacked is the origin of that streak of light," Moorer said. "Where did it come from? Who fired it." For its part, the NTSB insisted after the briefing that "We have no physical evidence that a missile impacted TWA 800, or a fragment of a missile penetrated the aircraft." Navy Times, Jan. 19, 1998, Page 14 Posted here Jan. 15, 1998 Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ From declan at well.com Thu Jan 15 07:14:08 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:14:08 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and a roofrack? A pair of gloves? Or is it even useful to talk about a browser/OS metaphor in the case of Microsoft, since IE has been glued into the operating system in the form of .DLLs? Might that be more like the wheels of a car? -Declan From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 07:18:06 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:18:06 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) Message-ID: <199801151547.JAA05542@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:09:09 -0500 > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Microsoft Metaphors > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an > operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and > a roofrack? A pair of gloves? It seem to me to be like a car and a road map. It simply lets you address the multiplicity of resources (ie destinations) out there in a convenient model. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 07:19:34 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:19:34 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: <199801151544.JAA05496@einstein.ssz.com> Hi Ryan, Thanks for the clarification. I've added a few issues that have occured to myself and Doug Floyd (operator of the dh-l mailing list) during several short discussions we've had over the last year. Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 15 Jan 1998 05:19:25 -0500 > The problem reduces to one of distribution of public keys. Agreed. > In my model > (er, actually Lenny Foner's model, in this case), you distribute something > that has intrinsic verifiability -- the eternity source. If I understand this you mean to use the code itself as the key? So you require all the eternity servers to use the same source? Doesn't this imply at some point a single point of distribution and hence another point of attack? > So whether > or not rdl's eternity-dds signing key is compromised is irrelevant to > the users -- in fact, the assumption is that since I am a known target, > I've been killed or compromised. So, there's this potentially untrusted > code out there. I am unclear as to what you mean by 'known target', are you refering to a particular eternity server, the eternity server code itself, the document the user is looking for, or the provider of the document? I suspect the provider of the document. Doesn't the fact that you can't address issues of key validity become an issue? How does this model handle key aging or do you propose to leave the same keys out there for extended periods of time (ie decades after your death)? Doesn't this extended lifetime represent a threat to the validity of the keys since it provides mallet an exceptional period of time in which to mount the attack? Especialy since nobody is checking the keys? It further seems to me that the main motive of most law enforcement is going to be going after the user of the data the majority of the time since this is much more time critical than knowing who provided the data. After all simply knowing who did the original sourcing is not enough to remove the problem after the fact. Eternity servers are after intended to be long lived mechanism, this provides the authorities much time to follow the data and analyze the network traffic. Wouldn't it be important to provide some sort of delivery mechanism that provides a full encryption envelope around the data until it is delivered to alice? I recognize this exacerbates instead of alleviates the key server security issues. > People who have known public keys then inspect and sign the code. It is > assumed these people have distributed their public keys far and wide, signed > by lots of people, etc. As long as you can assume the "PGP web of trust", > the distributed software signing thing works. Ah, ok. So we again are assuming everyone is using the same particular piece of technology. In this model, would it not add security to the mechanism to have the eternity server deliver the encryption software (ie PGP)? How does this model handle the physical contact that is required in the PGP web of trust? In particular how does it verify that the actual physical contact occured? Can you address the key distribution mechanism and how it addresses the issue of a mallet producing their own key server with their own keys signed sureptitiously by their own multiplicity of 'nyms? Do you see a group of 'Johny Appleseeds' roaming the country in person dropping little dolops of signed keys off? Or, do you believe some sort of key verification service will need to be generated that compares keys for individual 'nyms on the various servers and publishes a list of keys that don't match (something that would to my thinking be prime data for a data haven server). Doesn't such a 'trusted' service have the same sort of 'user end' threats as the eternity servers themselves? Assume for a moment that mallet wants to monitor a particular alice. Alice makes her request which goes through mallets tap. Outbound traffic is uneffected so that the actual keys sent to the server are good. However, no the return stroke mallet intercept the traffic, provides their own bogus keys and signed document. How do you see alice finding a way to recognize this? The threat with this model is that alice might be turned and therefore condemn any co-participants in whatever activity alice is supposed to be involved in (eg ingesting lettuce or leading a freedom cell in Burma)? > I agree that the current state of PGP use is probably not enough for > the "PGP web of trust" -- I've *never* used a key and found it signed by > anyone I know. However, I think even the current system puts a pretty high > barrier to fraud, and if there started to be fraud, people would start > signing each other's keys. I agree with all the points but the last. When the cost becomes too high (ie inconvenient) they simply won't use it. I just can't seem to grasp why people would spend even more money (which would provide a flag via monitoring of funds) to physicaly meet a group of others who they probably don't know and therefore probably shouldn't trust at such a fundamental level. > A keyserver serving keys like "rdl's eternity-dds release signing key" might > be subject to traffic analysis, true. However, as you suggest, you could > put the keyserver inside Eternity. Then, the problem just gets shifted -- now > you need (a) pgp signing key(s) which has/have signed all of those keys. I believe it is a fundamental mistake to have the key server inside the eternity server, just as I object to anonymous remailers that provide such service. The key servers should be on different machines to provide physical independance & legal indipendance - these are long lived keys after all and there is no reason architecturaly to put the keys at threat if the data haven is at threat, and finaly technological indipendance - it should not require a upgrade of the eternity software (and visa versa) to upgrade the key server software. Another issue that was raised previously, neither I nor anyone else addressed it at the time, is this acceptance of latency of distribution. Since we are talking about providing potentialy damaging documents (to who is intentionaly left vague) doesn't this latency provide opportunities for attack? Unlike a remailer network where it defeats traffic analysis in the data haven model it seems like a perfect means to get the processing window to actualy mount a trace. Anyway, since I am still about 3-6 months from actualy implimenting any of my own Plan 9 based (network level anonymity) model this is all conjecture. Hope it provides at least a seed for something useful. Ta ta. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From sunder at beast.brainlink.com Thu Jan 15 07:22:20 1998 From: sunder at beast.brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:22:20 +0800 Subject: FW: IRS/Co$ Secret Agreement web page (fwd) Message-ID: -----Original Message----- Subject: IRS/Co$ Secret Agreement web page http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/irs-cos.htm The IRS gave the Church of Scientology a sweetheart deal on October 1 1993, granting it privileges that no other tax exempt organization gets. The above web page includes the Secret Agreement, IRS tax code portions at issue, US Supreme Court ruling that the Secret Agreement violates, and other important information. I update it almost daily. From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 07:26:47 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:26:47 +0800 Subject: FBI to search school shooters computer [CNN] Message-ID: <199801151554.JAA05676@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > SUSPECTED HIGH SCHOOL GUNMAN TO MAKE COURT APPEARANCE > > FBI will search his computer for evidence of motive > > January 15, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:36 a.m. EST (1436 GMT) > > PADUCAH, Kentucky (CNN) -- The teen-age suspect in last month's > Kentucky school shooting was scheduled to make his first public > court appearance Thursday morning, as the FBI announced plans to > search the contents of his personal computer. > > Michael Carneal, 14, is accused of opening fire on an informal > prayer group in the lobby of Heath High School, where he was a > freshman. Three students were killed and five wounded in the > December 1 attack. > > Carneal was indicted as an adult on three counts of murder, five > counts of attempted murder, and one count of burglary. The > commonwealth's prosecutor has said he'll pursue the maximum penalty > of life in prison, which would mean Carneal, if convicted, would > have to serve 25 years before he could be considered for parole. > > In a search for a possible motive into the deadly shootings, the FBI > has agreed to search the contents of Carneal's personal computer. > Lobby Heath High School lobby where the shooting occurred ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From txporter at mindspring.com Thu Jan 15 08:11:38 1998 From: txporter at mindspring.com (Thomas Porter) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:11:38 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: <19980115110105.55216@vasili.rlf.org> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 10:09:09AM -0500, Declan McCullagh thoughtfully expounded: > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an > operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and > a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > > Or is it even useful to talk about a browser/OS metaphor in the case of > Microsoft, since IE has been glued into the operating system in the form of > .DLLs? Might that be more like the wheels of a car? I might look at it like air conditioning in a car: If present, it requires significant alterations to the basic vehicle, and might be difficult to remove cleanly, _but_ air conditioning in no way affects the basic operation of the car, and cars can be bought without air conditioning. Hmmmmm, actually A/C does affect the car's operation: uses more gas and degrades performance! A better metaphor than I thought. -- Tom Porter txporter at mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi From dritter at bbnplanet.com Thu Jan 15 08:33:08 1998 From: dritter at bbnplanet.com (Dan Ritter) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:33:08 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801151547.JAA05542@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980115112603.006c5c00@pobox3.bbn.com> At 09:47 AM 1/15/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:09:09 -0500 >> From: Declan McCullagh >> Subject: Microsoft Metaphors > >> What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an >> operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and >> a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >It seem to me to be like a car and a road map. It simply lets you address >the multiplicity of resources (ie destinations) out there in a convenient >model. A browser is a piece of software. How it is implemented has no effect on what it is: a tool used by people, running on a computer with an OS. The computer is a building. The OS makes it a supermarket. The browser is the map of the store showing what foods are in what aisles. -dsr- From manager at musicblvd.com Fri Jan 16 01:02:28 1998 From: manager at musicblvd.com (http://www.musicblvd.com/) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:02:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Music Boulevard Storewide Sale Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980115122621.007dbd10@mail.sparknet.net> Dear Music Boulevard Customer, Happy New Year from Music Boulevard! Ring in 1998 on the right note, with new music! Through January 26th we've lowered prices on every CD, cassette, video and T-shirt in our catalog of over 200,000 items -- our entire store is on sale! Search for your most-wanted recordings or refer to our comprehensive Buyer's Guide (created by Music Boulevard's staff of music experts) to find essential albums in every musical genre and style, from Surf and Garage Rock to New Orleans Jazz to Reggae to 20th Century Classical music. 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The Music Boulevard Staff TO UNSUBSCRIBE To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an Email to: remove-musicblvd at sparklist.com and you will be automatically removed from this list. From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 09:07:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:07:50 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) Message-ID: <199801151730.LAA05952@einstein.ssz.com> Hi Dan, Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:26:03 -0500 > From: Dan Ritter > Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) > The computer is a building. A building once built doesn't change and it's a pain in the ass to change the rooms and such. A general purpose stored program computer is intentionaly designed to get around these limitations. Computers before the stored program paradigm most certainly fit the building model however. > The OS makes it a supermarket. The OS provides a multiplicity of resources for me to use (purchase) at my leisure? I don't think so, unless you want to model the user as the company that loads the shelves. In a computer, unlike a store, each time I want to use a jar of tomato paste (program) to build lasagna (job) I don't have to go out and buy a new jar of tomato paste. > The browser is the map of the store showing what foods are in what aisles. That one I'll buy (figuratively). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From rdl at mit.edu Thu Jan 15 09:14:51 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:14:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) God's Own Backup Medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980114172242.006bb0e0@dgf4.mail.yale.edu> Message-ID: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Dan Fabulich: > I must be insane, because this seems simple to me. Don't listen. It's simple conceptually, just some of the technical details are multi-axis tradeoffs which need to be made explicit. > > Presume that the goal is a secure anonymous storage/retrieval system, paid > for with e$. Armed with a persistent naming system for each document, we > set up e$ protocols to pay for storage of a (possibly encrypted) document > OR to pay for retrieval of a particular named document. I broadcast that I > want up to ten people to store my XMB document and that I'm prepared to pay > $Y/mo. to each participant. My document is then secure for as long as I'm > prepared to pay for it. It is anonymous to the extent that information can > be transferred anonymously between me and the other willing participants; > it is therefore a remailer problem, not an Eternity problem. It's an Eternity problem if you want your eternity system to have better performance than the remailers have. What you really need is a multi-level security infrastructure, where someone (the owner of the data, the individual intermediate server operators, etc.) can choose the level of security they will provide to meet certain Quality of Service levels. Yes, for a lot of the data you're handling, remailers are a good model. However, steganographically-protected streams hidden inside other streams work better for certain things. Perhaps quantum channels work better for other things. Perhaps hand-carried optical tapes are best for others. The system should have a way of handling these formats in a suitably abstract way. > Alternately, if a document is in high demand, someone might offer money to > anyone who can provide a particular document given by name. Any willing > sellers could then exchange information/e$ via e-mail. (One might even > imagine data-traders who would seek out valuable information at a bargain > and sell them to others at market value.) Again, the mechanism is only > anonymous to the extent that e-mail is secure. Which helps both security and performance. A very good mechanism. > > Note that the system is profitable to all of its participants no matter > WHAT the broadcast mechanism is. The more automation, the more profitable. > The more participants, the more profitable. The more information online, > the more profitable. Yes. That's why I'm including market-based techniques in Eternity DDS -- I think market-based arguments are as powerful as statistical ones -- perhaps not as powerful as mathematical/cryptographic proof, but close. > The missing link here, of course, is anonymous e$. Despite the success of > the remailers, I've never been convinced that they're not vulnerable to > traffic analysis. (Possibly this is why no one has ever bothered to shut > them down?) > And even if we COULD set up automated daemons to monitor the broadcasts and > negotiate trades, there's still no good way to distribute money over the net. I know with high confidence there will be a deployed quality anonymous e$ system in 1998. > > At any rate, keeping the system independent of its broadcast medium (which > can be done pretty easily by just making sure that the program communicates > in [encrypted] plaintext,) should make the system autocatalytic... At that > point, just let it run, get as many people running it as possible and let > the market take over. Yes. Both Eternity-USENET and Eternity DDS are only secure once they grow to a certain size. Market pressure is (I think) the best way of getting a system to scale to that size. (Eternity-USENET is vulnerable to technical Denial of Service attacks with the current small number of indexing servers, even if it is protected from legal issues. I think illegal or extralegal attacks are as dangerous as the legal ones) -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 09:49:27 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:49:27 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801142049.MAA02259@proxy4.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <19980115173121.01572@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Wed, Jan 14, 1998 at 12:49:52PM -0800, James A. Donald wrote: > -- 2 > Since release there have been a very large number of hits on > the Kong documents, and mere 102 downloads of the program, > and 74 downloads of the source code. > > The large number of source code downloads indicates that I am > only reaching the crypto techie audience, that for the most > part is already able to use PGP, not the non tech audience > that Crypto Kong was designed for. Ummm why reinvent the PGP wheel in an exclusively Win32 form? PGP (at least 2.x) has undergone peer review and seems secure. Is that true of your system? I don't wish to sound too negative and there are interesting features (small EC keys for one and smaller signatures). Another interesting and similar program is Pegwit which is portable code and also has these advantages. Pegwit http://ds.dial.pipex.com/george.barwood/v8/pegwit.htm But there is an intrastructure of PGP key servers and most people have PGP keys, already. Maybe we should be building on standards rather than building new ones. Of course PGP isn't GPLed but we will have g10 soon which will be real freeware and developed outside the USA to avoid legal problems ftp://ftp.guug.de/pub/gcrypt/g10-0.1.3.tar.gz Its *very* prebeta but maybe will become the cypherpunk program of choice. There is also a freeware SSH ("Psssst") planned I think by someone else. -- Steve From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 15 09:58:21 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:58:21 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:09 AM -0800 1/15/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an >operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and >a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >Or is it even useful to talk about a browser/OS metaphor in the case of >Microsoft, since IE has been glued into the operating system in the form of >.DLLs? Might that be more like the wheels of a car? I think this is one of those cases where metaphors mislead. They cause more confusion than they lessen confusion. (I was thinking about the "car + navigation system" metaphor, which someone I think proposed, and how a car company is supplying a map/Etak, but other map makers want the Justice Department to force the car maker to remove their map/Etak, and so on.... but any browser-ignorant reader, presumably the target for your metaphor, will be misled.) My advice: Skip the misleading metaphors and simply describe what the Web is (duh!), what a browser is, and what Microsoft is bundling with their OS. Anybody who by now doesn't know what these three items are is too stupid to grasp metaphor, anyway. (Unless it's this: "Like, think of a beer company. The company wants to include a can opener with the beer. Like, they even want to include an automatic opening thing they call a "pop-top." Netscape, a maker of can openers, wants the Justice Department to force Microsoft to remove this pop-top feature so that more people wil have to buy their can opener.") --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Jan 15 10:47:18 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:47:18 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. Message-ID: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- At 05:31 PM 1/15/98 +0000, Steve Mynott wrote: > Ummm why reinvent the PGP wheel Well I am not "reinventing the wheel". Crypto Kong implements a different identity model. It does not suppose that there are "true names". This leads to substantially easier identity management (largely by abolishing identity management) As a necessary consequence of this, if you happen to be communicating with two different Bob Jones, Crypto Kong does not attempt to discover which one is the one true Bob Jones and which is the evil man in the middle Bob Jones. It merely keeps them distinct by applying different labels to them. Secondly, PGP simply is not being adopted by the masses. Of course right now, two weeks after release, Crypto Kong is not being adopted by the masses either, but with very little identity management, it is far easier for the masses to use. If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will happily let the government licensed authorities do it for them. The PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is not going to fly. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG mMObRqZXvGz3OkHZyNWBCEGt5ZpZtUG5Y19i3tsX 4SfFX2/pUCYwhAm6n1u5xBLG/xL9LYsSZcznxXI8S --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From sunder at sundernet.com Thu Jan 15 11:19:12 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:19:12 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, James A. Donald wrote: > Secondly, PGP simply is not being adopted by the masses. Of > course right now, two weeks after release, Crypto Kong is not > being adopted by the masses either, but with very little > identity management, it is far easier for the masses to use. > > If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they > will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will happily > let the government licensed authorities do it for them. The > PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is not going to > fly. IMHO, this is pure grade A bullshit. If you included PGP in MsMail, and Eudora and pine and elm from the get go, everyone would use it. Poeple use what they have and few learn about what they could use. PGP for the masses has been a widely discussed topic here. Unless you can convice the mailer makers to include Crypto Kong in the mailers, you're not gonna get any mass adoption either. Still it's likely to be much less than PGP anyway since it's already been out for ages. Still there are plenty of plugins for Eudora to do PGP mail, and those who know about it and need it use it. The rest, well, they don't know and won't know until someone snoops their mail and they get a bug up their asses to get privacy. Regardless of how good your program, if you ignore the basic facts and stick to "Crypto Kong has feature X,Y,Z which PGP lacks" you won't get anywhere either. Mind you I'm not comparing PGP, nor Crypto Kong on any feature or security level, just basic human nature. If you get Microsoft to incorporate it in every copy of win 98 and Office, you can bet fuckloads of people will use it. If you can get all the ISP's out there that offer service and software to include it, you can bet a lot of people will use it, etc. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From rdl at mit.edu Thu Jan 15 11:47:51 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:47:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Mailing List Archives Message-ID: <199801151939.OAA01030@the-great-machine.mit.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I've put the archives of the Eternity Mailing List (eternity at internexus.net) up on http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/mail-archive/ The mailing list is host to discussion of the theoretical issues behind Eternity service, Blacknet, Adam Back's Eternity USENET implementation, and my forthcoming Eternity DDS implementation. (7 articles got lost from the archive while I was setting it up. I sent them to itself as "missing articles 86-92". I'll restore their original headers at some point.) - -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNL5mBqwefxtEUY69AQFZrAgAhJA1xWUTf4nPKvT17U9tBnrPt2EwP9Hv dx3QruMmZqodAES7ot6h0YQN6Wi/Chw8RosjCqRXZq+zkayUBVX376gTF4i0+Vpf MocwfB8plXTmjfBahcfjb+WxeEuGEefw3BGCGKpYM/y5uZ925GJsq/+R6MeA2FjQ t+RWcqeMbSRAz4T3s8ThPQtr9dIi3dJgh4gEq9aAD+0cH4lOZFAsc3NA8YMWHptR M++ZvHYCLvwm5mb01bNJ9w8BGzU7dVFzxmJfxhZqb+0DJvK++8uQeflSUmILP9uf yXc+O+pYjuW2ho9ozzSlcbbSEPWdyAO03Qaty8bLdxy0DeaFmTWyoQ== =US5o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Jan 15 11:48:22 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:48:22 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. Message-ID: <199801151940.LAA08293@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, James A. Donald wrote: >> If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they >> will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will >> happily let the government licensed authorities do it for >> them. The PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is >> not going to fly. At 02:16 PM 1/15/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: > IMHO, this is pure grade A bullshit. If you included PGP > in MsMail, and Eudora and pine and elm from the get go, > everyone would use it. Proven false by experiment: Observe what happened with Verisign and MIME. The cost is not signing your stuff. The cost is setting up a key and publishing it, and getting other peoples keys and verifying them. Integration with Eudora makes it trivial to sign and to decrypt, *after* you have created and uploaded a key, and downloaded and verified other peoples keys, which is not trivial. People would rather the kindly benevolent government did that hard stuff for them. Verisign/MIME is *already* integrated into everyone's mailers, and they are not using it because Verisign key management is too hard, and Verisign key management is arguably more user friendly than PGP key management, though clearly less user friendly than Crypto Kong's (lack of) key management. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG s/7IS+OXDf+elZBg6ff+1Sq4aO4aoy9DRhH58rhP 4HFsRTnHTjnMnwGwjenI4jPJsM/0cy02LwoJAtbQ8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 15 12:15:36 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:15:36 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: At 10:36 AM -0800 1/15/98, James A. Donald wrote: >Secondly, PGP simply is not being adopted by the masses. Of >course right now, two weeks after release, Crypto Kong is not >being adopted by the masses either, but with very little >identity management, it is far easier for the masses to use. > >If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they >will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will happily >let the government licensed authorities do it for them. The >PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is not going to >fly. James Donald needs to be arrested. Or at least be threatened with prosecution. I am persuaded that a big, big reason for PGP's success was the threatened, looming prosecution of Phil Zimmemann by forces of the Evil Empire. The many news stories, favorable magazine profiles, and general publicity all caused PGP to be adopted as a kind of "Blue Ribbon Campaign" (a la the CDA). The fact is that most people don't see the need to either secure their messages against eavesdroppers or to sign their messages. But PGP was "cool" and rode the same wave that "Wired" rode. The recent corporatization of PGP, with the mandatory voluntary inclusion of key recovery features in 5.5, and the purchase of PGP, Inc. by Network Associates all signal big changes in this "little guy" image. How successful PGP will be in the future depends on a bunch of factors, but the "coolness" factor has certainly disappeared almost completely. If James Donald wants some similar publicity for Donkey Kong, er, Crypto Kong, then he'll have to arrange some similar publicity stunts. Otherwise it will languish in obscurity. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 15 12:23:42 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:23:42 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Mailing List Archives In-Reply-To: <199801151939.OAA01030@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: At 11:39 AM -0800 1/15/98, Ryan Lackey wrote: >I've put the archives of the Eternity Mailing List (eternity at internexus.net) >up on http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/mail-archive/ > >The mailing list is host to discussion of the theoretical issues behind >Eternity service, Blacknet, Adam Back's Eternity USENET implementation, >and my forthcoming Eternity DDS implementation. > >(7 articles got lost from the archive while I was setting it up. I sent >them to itself as "missing articles 86-92". I'll restore their >original headers at some point.) Thanks for doing this. But I'll point out that I choose to continue to use the Cypherpunks list, as I have since 1992, as the main forum for my own comments. If anyone wants to read my stuff, they are encouraged to subscribe to the Cypherpunks list. I think list proliferation has gotten way, way out of hand. It seems that any time a topic becomes hot, someone decides it needs its own mailing list. Then, as it becomes not quite so hot, volumes drop off the radar screen and the list essentially vanishes. (Any besides me remember the lists devoted to DC Nets? The list "Digital Anarchy"? The list "Digital Liberty"? The "Nym" list?) We have a dozen or so lists all ostensibly covering much the same material, such as Coderpunks, Cryptography, Fight-Censorship, PoliLaw (or somesuch), e$spam, Remailer Operators, Eternity, and probably half a dozen others I have no awareness of, or have forgotten here. Worse, some of these are moderated. (I make it a point not to subscribe to moderated lists unless the reasons are compelling.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From pcw at access.digex.net Thu Jan 15 12:23:54 1998 From: pcw at access.digex.net (Peter Wayner) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:23:54 +0800 Subject: BUG Bounty... Message-ID: My publisher is reprinting _Digital Copyright Protection_, a book that describes how to use encryption and steganography to control digital data. I get to fix any problems that are out there. To encourage people who may have spotted errors, I'm offering a bounty of $20 to the first person who reports an error subject to the following limitations: * The errors must be technical. I appreciate anyone who wants to correct my grammar, but I think that these types of errors are too hard to pin down. We could spend more time arguing than solving them. * I reserve the right to aggregate errors and determine the right way to split them up. This isn't a loophole, it's just a way to prevent someone from noting a pattern and asking to be paid for each separate occurance. For instance, imagine that someone notes that I forgot to put a page number on a blank page at the front of the book. Is every page number after that wrong? I promise I won't use this as a loophole. * I reserve the right to make arbitrary judgements about the "first" person to submit a claim. This is to prevent a club of people from finding an error and reporting it in synchrony. 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Nuri) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:01:38 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <01BD2130.FFFF2520@sense-sea-pm6-7.oz.net> Message-ID: <199801152052.MAA08971@netcom11.netcom.com> philosophers have struggled with what is moral since the beginning of civilization. at least they are struggling with the question. each new civilization and era gives a new answer to the question, "what is morality", and hopefully each is more evolved than the last, unless humanity is regressing. "what is morality" is obviously something that cannot be settled in cyberspace, it hasn't even been settled by great writers, and there are only mediocre and borderline insane minds in cyberspace >The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist al >all in any absolute sense, at least as far as science is concerned. If you dec >lare, for example, that "murder" is "wrong" you are always left with dilemmas, >such as whether soldiers who kill during a war are doing something "wrong". dilemmas do not prove a concept does not exist. there are pretty clear cut cases, and less well clear cut cases. those that have difficulty with the concept of morality will tend to focus on the fuzzy cases and conclude that the whole exercise is a waste of time. >According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including scientis >ts, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. "Fit" means >that an organism is well adapted to it's environment, so "maximizing inclusive >genetic fitness" means having the maximum number of offspring which are themsel >ves fit. natural selection does however support the idea of altruism. natural selection does not require each individual seek survival. various aspects of the genetic code that lead to survival of the species are what are truly favored. a breed of animals that does nothing but try to kill each other off leads to a situation where each individual is maximizing the odds of its own DNA propagating, no? but how long would such a species survive? and extra credit, to what "animal" am I actually alluding to here? >The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral people, i >n general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary psychologists call re >ciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both parties benefit if they are >in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most situations are non-zero-sum and the >benefits are so great, everyone has a stake in promoting themselves as a good r >eciprocal altruist, in other words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is > how natural selection explains the existence of the concept of "morality". natural selection is relevant among species that have no intelligence or intellectual control over their own destiny. it is only relevant to humans insofar as we wish to behave like animals. >So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity >. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own inclus >ive fitness. false, even by your own reasoning, because a scientists DNA does not necessarily lead to more scientist DNA. sons and daughters of scientists may be anything they wish to be in a free country. >The only way out is to believe in the afterlife, and religion, and that life ha >s meaning beyond the genes and material world. Doing so doesn't make moral dile >mmas go away, and you never know, people may just be believing such things for >the benefit of genes, after all natural selection has no real concern for "trut >h". natural selection among animals. and a pretty scary mind that would consider us on that level. I agree there are some vague parallels for human development. but humans do not have children in the mindless way that animals breed, nor hopefully do they live their lives according only to evolutionary instincts, but of course letters like yours tend to make me wonder, and I'm being deliberately ambiguous here by what I mean by that From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Jan 15 13:11:33 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:11:33 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114191915.007f5990@cnw.com> Message-ID: <199801152104.NAA11122@netcom11.netcom.com> > >Of course, if people were more moral, we would have institutions which >reflected that integrity. The problem is, how could they be made to become >so, and what type of methods, used toward that end, would be moral? > no one can be "made" to do anything, even in a tyrannical environment. even in a tyranny a person has the choice of disobeying authority. Rand had one way of promoting what she saw as integrity-- writing about it, lobbying about it, philosophizing about it. she was a bit fanatical at times about her beliefs-- which were very much about morality and integrity, only defined in an unusual way. more power to her, I say. a step in the right direction. another way would be to confront publicly those that seem not to care about integrity or morality, engage in a sort of socratean dialogue about it, and let the lurkers decide for themselves if they are really the moral vacuums some appear to be, and whether they (the lurkers) wish to follow that path. goring sacred cows and seeing where the blood flows, so to speak. the public will begin to care about integrity and morality when it realizes that the pain of failing to do so is not worth the immediate gratification the vacuity seems to provide. that this will happen is not assured. (somehow this thread has been sustaining itself on its own, despite my increasing lack of interest as the group mind wanders far from my original points, which again I find obvious and barely worth rebutting.) From freecalls4u at 28399.com Fri Jan 16 06:02:29 1998 From: freecalls4u at 28399.com (freecalls4u at 28399.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:02:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Talk Is Cheap.....AND Fun! Message-ID: <563298745123698563666@header.net.edu> NO 900 #.....NO Credit Cards Just Pick Up The Phone & CALL! Talk to our SEXY & HOT, young girls! They will talk about ANYTHING! 24 Hours A Day! NO Charge For The Girl's Services! You pay for the long distance charges (as little as .30 cents a minute) Economy Plan: Call us as a group and split the charges! SHY....... Then call and just listen. You'll be amazed at some of the wild fantasies! Why pay for expensive 900 numbers, when you can talk to our hot and sexy babes for as little as .30 cents per minute. This is a LIMITED TIME OFFER to introduce our girls and our GREAT new service. Don't delay, call today! 011-592-1773 (24 hrs.) You MUST be 21 years old to participate. From rdl at mit.edu Thu Jan 15 14:19:51 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:19:51 +0800 Subject: E (the java extension, not MDMA) Message-ID: <199801152210.RAA01721@the-great-machine.mit.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- After someone mentioned "E", Electric Communities (http://www.communities.com/) enhancement to the Java security model/language/etc., I checked it out It looks useful for a distributed agents based system (which is what I'm shooting for...the long-awaited goals mailing will either get sent today or tomorrow, depending on if I fall asleep immediately after sending this). I don't think anyone will argue that it's inherently bad. However, I'm interested in knowing what people think about using a vaguely proprietary product (albeit from a company with lots of cool people) in a piece of software like a reference Eternity implementation. I personally would prefer to stick to something as standard as possible, but E has a lot of features I'd want to use, and would end up re-implementing on my own. (I think if you had a JVM interface to eternity such that an object, its currency, where it should send its results, etc. in a standard form (the standard eternity agent encapsulation) were encapsulated, you could build a lot of Eternity out of interacting agents inside another Eternity implemention, inside ... up to inside a traditional network. (more on this idea later)) So, this is very rambling -- I mostly wonder how people feel about using a fairly non-standard language extension in something like Eternity. Ryan [ObDentistry: Wisdom teeth *really* suck. I want drugs.] - -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNL6JcKwefxtEUY69AQGs0Qf/TubvdreDInDvT89R8UGHd1TohudBCwYE KWq66zhULQh0YAdn2ZoL4rT9lhxWJ/QE0el8sLxmp9CgjwnMi8l7uA8eKB3RSi0s l6zgx96PJYLvAtI+S7gYcLAKf9RvHH5TzyWpT/WoiePb4Wd8YI0Z3DthdEdd4xMs gKqmyOO6JpX+SPXF89shN33j1LXfFmvq10XWlCW15XLyyA72WwoWbKQHu40uliAd rsM+CRacNN7K3Gc9OV4IWORnmIciZbJ1EZbO8kyZU3YlYvOB+QyZpnaYvFuzyLtS Iyud5WaVVRM7mGn9FS9WwSaxqxMrRRv25FutM9muHmAIufaxnMVeQA== =GQr/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From declan at well.com Thu Jan 15 15:08:45 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:08:45 +0800 Subject: Presidential advisor on the "problem of encryption" Message-ID: Presidential advisor Jim Steinberg spoke across the street from my office this afternoon at the Mayflower Hotel, addressing the European Institute. He said: ...we will pay a price if the United States and the EU cannot work together effectively to address the problem of encryption in a way that allows our cutting-edge industries to thrive, our citizens to have security in their communications, while at the same time protecting common public security interests. Translation: the government gets a backdoor to your encrypted files. Read on for more. (BTW, Steinberg is deputy assistant to the president for national security affairs. Also Deputy National Security Council Advisor and formerly the director of the State Department Policy Planning Staff.) Background: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1626,00.html http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1385,00.html -Declan "We also need to find better ways to harness our efforts to counter the kinds of new crimes looming ahead in the next century. We have made considerable progress through the Summit of the Eight, taking new steps to increase airline security, to protect our infrastructures, to fight cyber-crime and, most important, to promote nuclear safety. We are encouraged that Prime Minister Blair has identified cooperative law enforcement as a major topic for the Birmingham Summit this May. We have been somewhat disappointed that Europe has not strengthened its cooperation with us on the vital third pillar. I am particularly concerned about the lack of enthusiastic support for the U.S.-sponsored international Law Academy in Budapest. Full integration in the Euro-Atlantic community means that all of our police forces must have the confidence to work together against transnational threats. It is vital that the emerging democracies enjoy the rule of law during their transition period, and we will pay a price if the United States and the EU cannot work together effectively to address the problem of encryption in a way that allows our cutting-edge industries to thrive, our citizens to have security in their communications, while at the same time protecting common public security interests. "But the gravest and most immediate challenge before us is to find more common ground between the United States and Europe in dealing with states that threaten our common interests. We have started to fall into a troubling pattern of good cop/bad cop. This pattern, whereby Europe provides the carrot, and the United States is left holding the stick, is unhealthy for both sides, and only benefits our common adversaries. While we all believe that dialogue and engagement are the preferred course, dialogue should not be an excuse for inaction when countries like Iraq fail to live up to Security Council resolutions, and other nations import weapons of mass destruction and export terror. This divergence compromises the effectiveness of our shared efforts." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mws at conch.net Thu Jan 15 15:35:40 1998 From: mws at conch.net (NNS) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:35:40 +0800 Subject: Add me to the mailing list Message-ID: <34c9c1ce.20262373@mail.conch.net> mws at conch.net From guy at panix.com Thu Jan 15 15:59:22 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:59:22 +0800 Subject: Chris Lewis's death? Message-ID: <199801152323.SAA14920@panix2.panix.com> For the majority of you who have killfiled Dr. Dim V., add these killfile keywords: Chris Lewis cauce vznuri at netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) freedom-knights at jetcafe.org @pgh.org > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:05:56 -0500 > From: "Dr. Zeus" > Reply-To: zeus at alt.net > To: freedom-knights at jetcafe.org > CC: cypherpunks at toad.com, usenet at pgh.org > Subject: Chris Lewis's death? > > > >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to > > >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and > > >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to > > >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa: > > I think we should leave the family out of this, and instead killing > Chris Lewis, just get him fired from Nortel > > > >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org > > >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward. > > > > This is fucking censorship! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my > > web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the > > pre-teen kids screwing. Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis. > > > > ---guy [ <- forgery ] > > Just6 who is this "guy?" MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dr. Dim can't even spell. > From: Admin Pgh Plan > X-Sender: pghmain at www3.localweb.com > To: freedom-knights at jetcafe.org > cc: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? > > Let us concentrate on getting Lewis fired > rather than killing him. Killing Nortel > would be a much better idea. Dr. Goober is toothless. ---guy Which is handy, considering his favorite position is kneeling before Dr. Dim. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 15 16:46:57 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:46:57 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: <199801160041.BAA12637@basement.replay.com> declan at well.com wrote: > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser > and an operating system? Is the combination like a car and an > engine, or a car and a roofrack? A pair of gloves? In this specific case it's more like garbage in a trash can. From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 17:04:05 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:04:05 +0800 Subject: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] Message-ID: <199801160129.TAA08009@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Barrett January 15, 1998 > Web posted at: 5:47 p.m. EST (2247 GMT) > > TRAVERSE CITY, Michigan (AP) -- Hired to teach computer technology > at a marketing company, Cameron Barrett suggested his trainees check > out his Web page, where he published his own fiction. > > Some women staff members did, and were shocked by the violent and > sexually explicit passages. > > They complained to their boss, and Barrett was fired. [text deleted] > "Just as people need to watch what they say in real life, what you > put on your Web page is going to be visible to everyone, including > future employers," said Esther Dyson, a director of the Electronic > Frontier Foundation in San Francisco. > > Personal Web pages aren't considered private > > Although the First Amendment prevents the government from stifling > speech, private employers are under no such constraints. > > Companies can fire people for comments deemed inappropriate, and > experts warn that personal Web sites, even if done at home, are > public venues that employers can use to determine who is suitable > for the company. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 15 17:14:37 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:14:37 +0800 Subject: What it means to be in America... In-Reply-To: <199801131731.LAA27730@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115093003.008c5670@popd.ix.netcom.com> This isn't really the list for that sort of thing. While Rand is partially correct, the big industrialization of the US came from the railroad business opening the West, which depended on killing off the Indians who lived there - in large part by wiping out the buffalo herds and starving the people, and by using the US Army to kill them, and granting large chunks of the land to the railroads, not only enough right of way for tracks, but typically several miles on each side. Here in Northern California, the Gold Rush was simplified by killing off the local tribes in gold country. And much of the early industrialization in New England was cotton mills, processing slave-grown cotton. At 11:31 AM 1/13/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > America's abundance was created not by public sacrifices to "the > common good," but by the productive genius of free men who pursued > their own personal interests and the making of their own private > fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America's > industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages, and > cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every > scientific discovery or technological advance- and thus the whole > country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of > the way. > > - Ayn Rand > > > > In the United States the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of > ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved > from the necessity of forming opinions of their own. > > - Alexis de Tocqueville > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | > | violent revolution inevitable. | > | | > | John F. Kennedy | > | | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage at ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| > > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 15 17:14:48 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:14:48 +0800 Subject: USPS loosing business to email [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801130133.TAA24345@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115092303.008c5670@popd.ix.netcom.com> It's especially a problem for them because email is replacing a lot of Express Mail, Fedex, and similar higher-priced services, so profits get hit harder. The phone companies are having the same problem - while voice over the Internet isn't making much of a dent, expensive international calling has a lot of fax traffic that's easy to turn into email. And the Web is replacing a lot of 800-number calling for information services from companies, which are also a higher-profit part of the business. At 07:33 PM 1/12/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: >> U.S. POSTAL SERVICE LOSING BUSINESS TO COMPUTERS >> >> e-mail vs. snail mail January 12, 1998 >> Web posted at: 3:25 p.m. EST (2025 GMT) >> >> NEW YORK (CNN) -- The U.S. Postal Service is facing stiff >> competition from computers, according to an article in the January >> 19 issue of Time Magazine. >> >> Electronic mail could replace 25 percent of conventional mail, or >> "snail mail," by the year 2000, the article said. >> >> The Postal Service lags behind Federal Express and United Parcel >> Service in shipping packages. The latter already moves 80 percent of >> the country's packages, according to the article. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 15 17:16:00 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:16:00 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801151547.JAA05542@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115170713.008b2b90@popd.ix.netcom.com> >> What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an >> operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and >> a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >It seem to me to be like a car and a road map. It simply lets you address >the multiplicity of resources (ie destinations) out there in a convenient >model. Or maybe a rental truck and a portable storage space. One of Microsoft's big problems is that if what you want to do is haul big stuff from place to place, you don't care what brand of truck/car you use to pull your U-Haul Brand trailer, and similarly if what you want to use is a Web browser with a Java engine that runs platform-independent Java apps, you don't care if it's running on Win95, Linux, SunOS, NintendoJava, or MacNeXTsTep. So they want to sell you that Pickup-mounted camper that only fits on a big Microsoft pickup-truck, as well as selling you some GlueOn Fuzzy Dice that can't be uninstalled cleanly from rental cars so you just buy the truck from them. And they want to give you Internet Exploiter free, so you're stuck with Fuzzy-Dice-Compliant Windows, rather than letting you get used to Java-based browsers that run on anything. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 18:03:32 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:03:32 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801160125.BAA00650@server.eternity.org> Ryan Lackey writes: > (Eternity-USENET is vulnerable to technical Denial of Service attacks > with the current small number of indexing servers, even if it is protected > from legal issues. I think illegal or extralegal attacks are as dangerous > as the legal ones) Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. Seems close to ideal to me, the problem being as Tim points out: bandwidth limitations. The bandwidth limitation is debilitating; to overcome this we have to relax security, for example by using remailers rather than USENET for all but indexes of documents. One criticism I noticed several people raise was that USENET would be shut down as a way to kill eternity USENET when something controversial gets posted. However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. So, where would blacknet, and eternity USENET be after that? How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? Adam From wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org Thu Jan 15 18:03:40 1998 From: wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org (Mark Rogaski) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:03:40 +0800 Subject: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801160129.TAA08009@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801160147.UAA24236@deathstar.jabberwock.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Jim Choate wrote: : : Forwarded message: : : > TRAVERSE CITY, Michigan (AP) -- Hired to teach computer technology : > at a marketing company, Cameron Barrett suggested his trainees check : > out his Web page, where he published his own fiction. : > : > Some women staff members did, and were shocked by the violent and : > sexually explicit passages. : > : > They complained to their boss, and Barrett was fired. Not all that surprising. If Barrett suggested his pages as an example, that makes them part of his curriculum. Curriculums that don't fit in with the Diversity model are usually pretty short-lived. That's a big "Duh" on his part. Mark - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo at pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo at deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster at localhost abuse at localhost uce at ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNL68EHzbrFts6CmBAQFcNAf9HLlKRRkxU432Auzml50ekYGNJIZX1EXQ LGAccA+wA80/zLq/cDkXPjn2Ce0z6skmI9zQ2a8BNblm1mn4hbHFMVFlffvd2CRj OANASDTxkgwPQcGPSes/CukQ72BYip1aE2CxX2WwgnsKOrMhGGsJ07K7nNhOza3i f8i5N6W/3EHP64pXKOQ2iWVQWzGXTZDW4YHI6DziUD2wXlpphkhoPQUseWA+2W4/ 1ikHP8UKuqE+UXpBUKFNyjVYDhdlKDUiHlOcAj1OnGJGNL4JBxa/6jeZFOA1oCdO tT9Orsco8pXoezP5rrajqHJ453RWSZUcxCoC0BDev0XjHEARd/nm/A== =TA1+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 18:04:14 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:04:14 +0800 Subject: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801160153.BAA00672@server.eternity.org> Tim May > Here's a meta-question: Suppose one holds highly secret or sensitive data, > for which one wants to use an Eternity service to ensure the information is > not suppressed by some government or other actor. > > Why centralize the data at all? > > Why not just use the "pointer" to the data and offer to provide it? > > Which is what Blacknet was all about. Instead of focussing on a data base, > focus instead on an untraceable market mechanism. I am more and more seeing the similarities between BlackNet and Eternity USENET. The only real difference that I can see is that for E-USENET I have been talking about periodically broadcasting the data to allow very high security for the reader, and also the idea of keeping a local copy of the documents so that data is pre-fetched to speed up accesses. Both designs are relying heavily on the anonymity provided by remailers. For very high risk traffic, even using mixmaster remailers may be risky due to the various active attacks which could be mounted by a well resourced attacker with ability to selectively deny service. An eternity service or blacknet information provider could frustrate the active attacker by having many software agents with different network connectivity and using these resources unpredictably. > (I admit that a system which can provide *A LOT* of data *VERY > FAST*, and also untraceably or unstoppably, is an attractive goal. > [...] The catch is that I can't see how such a system will get > built, who will run the nodes, how payment will be made to pay for > the nodes and work, and how traffic analysis will be defeated.) One big opportunity we have is to subvert protocols of new services. A distributed web replacement with ecash payment for page hits I think is plausible. Web pages could migrate to meet demand. You could have a hot-potatoe effect, where high risk documents are not kept for long -- bits move faster than government agents and lawyers -- hot data could migrate every 10 minutes. However distributed web replacements are complex to design, and whether it will be possible to deploy the system widely is an open question. > And I think implementing the slower-but-no-breakthroughs approach (Blacknet > or variations) has some advantages. It may be many years before we need to > be in the corner of the graph that is "large amounts of data--very fast > retrieval--very secure." > > Most candidates for untraceable/secure storage and retrieval are NOT in > this corner, yet. (Kiddie porn may be, but whistleblowing and scientific > information are not.) What about large scale software piracy. This could consume serious amounts of bandwidth. This seems to be intermediate risk in that if one observes even 30 seconds of traffic in #warez, one observes lots of commercial software trading hands. Perhaps the new draconian US software copyright law which the large software corps purchased from the politicians will move software piracy towards the higher risk end. Would the world be better off without software copyright? I tend to think so. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 18:04:58 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:04:58 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801141553.JAA01099@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801160014.AAA00557@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > Adam Back : > > - post to random newsgroups, use textual mimic functions, send > > decryption keys after the stegoed data has been distributed to > > disguise data until it is too late to affect distribution > > Isn't this going to increase latency and increase the likelihood of both > sureptitious attacks (I notice the request in newsgroup A and begin putting > my mitm requests in the other newsgroups - the odds being that I will get > the data and then forward to the original recipient with small changes) as > well as must plain missing the request? It will increase latency yes. It will also make the attackers job harder. If you are talking about posting requests it sounds like you are describing Eternity BlackNet, eternity USENET basically acts like a FAST-TEXT TELETEXT system -- keeps the most recent copy of pages as they are updated, there is no request to post because the reader acts entirely passively, and is harder to trace because he is passive. > > When people can buy a T1 to their house for �2,000/yr instead of > > �20,000, we will stand a better chance. > > SWBT will currently sell T1 access to homes for as little as $214/mo. Would > you settle for $2,568/yr.? Note that this price doesn't include routing and > name resolution. I'm still (3 months later) trying to get SWBT to tell me > how much they will charge for this - they supposedly offer it but I have yet > to find an actual business office that support home delivery of service. I don't know who SWBT are, but I suspect they don't offer service in the UK. If they did at that price I would have them install the T1 tomorrow. Adam From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 15 18:43:57 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:43:57 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: At 5:25 PM -0800 1/15/98, Adam Back wrote: >Ryan Lackey writes: >> (Eternity-USENET is vulnerable to technical Denial of Service attacks >> with the current small number of indexing servers, even if it is protected >> from legal issues. I think illegal or extralegal attacks are as dangerous >> as the legal ones) > >Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be >running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is >local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. > >Seems close to ideal to me, the problem being as Tim points out: >bandwidth limitations. The bandwidth limitation is debilitating; to >overcome this we have to relax security, for example by using >remailers rather than USENET for all but indexes of documents. This was my point, and has been for years (though not in the context of "Eternity"). To wit, save the bandwidth for _pointers_, not raw data. To make this concrete, suppose Alice is in possession of a set of photographs of Bill Clinton engaged in sex with his mistresses (Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, Tammy Faye Baker, Margaret Thatcher, etc.). The file size is 5 MB. The pointer to this file is _much_ shorter, namely, a text description, and/or possibly a set of blurred thumbnails. And if the file is only occasionally requested (or purchased), it makes no sense to blast it to the Usenet frequently (*). (* And how frequent is frequent, even in Eternity Usenet? I argue there is little point in blasting such files on a weekly basis, say, as even that is *much too slow* for someone who really wants the file NOW. A "call and response" response system, to borrow a phrase from the blues, makes a lot more sense.) Additional dimensions or axes are: how many requestors? and how many suppliers? >One criticism I noticed several people raise was that USENET would be >shut down as a way to kill eternity USENET when something >controversial gets posted. I have not argued this. Usenet is notoriously hard to "shut down." However, it is quite likely that newsgroups carrying vast amounts of "Eternity Usenet" stuff will overload the system and effectively force the newsgroup to not be carried by many sites (just as alt.binaries.pictures.* groups are already excluded from many newsfeeds, for both bandwith/storage and naughtiness reasons). >However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. >It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut >down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There >are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP >addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut >them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. Well, I have long argued for the need for thousands of remailers, esp. the "everyone a remailer" model. But, although I agree we need many more remailers, I think Adam overstates the ease with which remailers can be shut down, at least in the U.S. Although there are many "extralegal" atrocities committed in the U.S., as in all countries, consider some "protections" which exist in the U.S. (I am no expert on English common law, so will confine myself to the U.S., where at least I have some knowledge): 1. The First Amendment is incredibly powerful ammunition against a blanket shut down of "speakers" or "publishers." Vast amounts could be written on just this one point. Basically, if the U.S. Government was constitutionally unable to stop even the publication of the Pentagon Papers, how could Joe's Remailer be enjoined from passing along received messages? 2. Even a hypothetical law requiring senders to identify themselves, seen by some as an end to remailers, would be easily surmounted by interpreting remailers as "commenters." By this I mean the following: "Hey, Fred's Commenter Remailer, look at the weird message I just received: lke[i=39023pok=94pk[e=f 3r93ir=-039r=30r9p0ir-3r9i3=r0923= 1-903u-q938-398-9 etc. Any comments on what this means?" In other words, unless the right to _comment_ on a received letter or message is quashed, I can simply comment on such messages. (Of course, Fred's Commenter Remailer would do the same with the next in line.... I mention this not because I think it is likely, but to show the can of worms the government would open if it tried to "ban remailers." 3. Encrypted speech is speech. So long as speech is legal, encrypted speech is legal. Any law limiting encrypted speech is limiting speech (in an overbroad way, not the narrowly defined "shouting fire" cliches). So long as encrypted speech is legal, remailers will be legal. --Tim May > >So, where would blacknet, and eternity USENET be after that? > >How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well >resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? > >Adam The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 15 18:52:42 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:52:42 +0800 Subject: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801160129.TAA08009@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 5:46 PM -0800 1/15/98, Mark Rogaski wrote: >Not all that surprising. If Barrett suggested his pages as an example, >that makes them part of his curriculum. Curriculums that don't fit in >with the Diversity model are usually pretty short-lived. That's a big >"Duh" on his part. And as with the AOL case of Timothy McVeigh (no, not _that_ one) being kicked out of the Navy for labelling himself as "gay" and as a "boy hunter" on one of his AOL profiles, there are already calls for new privacy laws. Which misses the point. By illegalizing the keeping or disclosing of lawfully obtained information, greater harm is done. I heard Nadine Strossen of the ACLU arguing today that more laws are needed to "prevent" these "abuses." In fact, more _technology_ is what's needed. The technology of Web proxies, remailers, nyms, and such. (As to what I personally think about these cases...the Barrett case strikes me as just another PC firestorm, with someone being fired by a scared college for fear of lawsuits by offended womyn and sistas. But Barrett was dumb to tell his students about his non-PC page. As for the McVeigh case, if the Navy allows gay soldiers and sailors....well, I can guess most straights will refuse to volunteer for the Navy. Again, in a corporation or such it should be their right to refuse to accept gays, or straights, or blacks, or whatever they choose. That it is a taxpayer-funded enterprise makes the case much more confusing and, probably, irreconcilable.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 15 19:37:45 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:37:45 +0800 Subject: Number Theory on Computers book... Message-ID: <199801160402.WAA08670@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, If you're looking for a good beginners book for number theory that is focused on using computer programs (BASIC) then check out: Exploring Number Theory w/ Microcomputers Donald D. Spencer ISBN 0-89218-113-3 (note I couldn't find w/ this, had to use the title) $24.95 Camelot Publishing PO Box 1357 Ormond Beach, FL 32175 904-672-5672 I ordered mine through Bookstop and should take 4-8 weeks for delivery. There is a teachers manual available as well (I suspect it is answers only) for $15.95 ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 15 20:32:54 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:32:54 +0800 Subject: Add me to the mailing list Message-ID: <199801160415.FAA10709@basement.replay.com> >mws at conch.net Do it yourself like an intelligent individual. Cypherpunks write code. If you can't figure out how to use Majordomo this list probably isn't for you. From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Thu Jan 15 20:49:35 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:49:35 +0800 Subject: Sealand (was Re: (eternity) autonomous agents) In-Reply-To: <884866825.4040.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 mark at unicorn.com wrote: > > I'd be interested to know where you got your information from, because > both Strauss ('How to start your own country') and the Micronations > Web page tell different stories; that Sealand was set up mostly for fun > by a couple of guys who made a lot of money from pirate radio and > it lasted at least fifteen years. You might want to search the NYT archives. Back the, Sealand was mentioned in the mainstream press. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From declan at well.com Thu Jan 15 21:32:30 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:32:30 +0800 Subject: Indiana state court rejects privacy claim in HIV case Message-ID: So I just got done reading the decision in Doe v. Methodist Hospital, a recent case before the Indiana Supreme Court. (Thanks to Eugene for pointing it out.) The case involved a woman who truthfully told someone else a third party was HIV positive. She did not break any laws to learn this information; someone else told her. The HIV-positive man's suit against her relied on the so-called tort of disclosure of private facts. (There are four privacy torts: intrusion upon seclusion; appropriation of likeness; public disclosure of private facts; false-light publicity.) The plaintiff could not charge her with libel or slander since what she said was true. The judges referenced an oft-cited 1890 Warren-Brandeis article that popularized the idea of suing reporters (and others) for violating your privacy if they said truthful things about you. The authors seemed mainly concerned with muzzling journalists and censoring the press, the court noted: The invasion of privacy tort had its genesis in an 1890 law review article by Boston attorney Samuel Warren and his former law partner--and future Supreme Court Justice--Louis Brandeis. An impetus for it seems to have been the press's coverage of Warren's wife's social gatherings "in highly personal and embarrasing detail." The reports covering their daughter's wedding were apparently more than the Warrens' sensibilities could bear... The authors criticized the press for "overstepping in every direction the obvious bounds of propriety and decency." They were concerned that truthful reporting about "private" affairs was causing "a lowering of social standards and of morality."... A cause of action for invasion of privacy would chill the press from reporting "unseemly gossip." The Indiana court ruled, in a plurality opinion (joined by a concurrence): [w]e do not discern anything special about disclosure injuries. Perhaps Victorian sensibilities once provided a sound basis of distinction, but our more open and tolerant society has largely outgrown such a justification. In our "been there, done that" age of talk shows, tabloids, and twelve-step programs, public disclosures of private facts are far less likely to cause shock, offense, or emotional distress than at the time Warren and Brandeis wrote their famous article. The court flatly rejected and refused to recognize the tort of disclosure of private facts. It upheld the lower court's decision to grant summary judgment to the woman who was sued. In other words: you're allowed to speak the truth. The court even noted that gossip is socially useful. Score a minor victory for free speech and freedom of the press over so-called "privacy" laws. -Declan From wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org Thu Jan 15 21:50:05 1998 From: wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org (Mark Rogaski) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:50:05 +0800 Subject: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801160534.AAA25032@deathstar.jabberwock.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Tim May wrote: : : And as with the AOL case of Timothy McVeigh (no, not _that_ one) being : kicked out of the Navy for labelling himself as "gay" and as a "boy hunter" : on one of his AOL profiles, there are already calls for new privacy laws. : : Which misses the point. By illegalizing the keeping or disclosing of : lawfully obtained information, greater harm is done. : : I heard Nadine Strossen of the ACLU arguing today that more laws are needed : to "prevent" these "abuses." In fact, more _technology_ is what's needed. : The technology of Web proxies, remailers, nyms, and such. : This issue was covered in _The Right to Privacy_ by Ellen Alderman and Carolyn Kennedy. The book was misplaced during my recent move, and I didn't get very far through it. I do remember that the current legal standard for invasion of privacy depended upon whether the information was gathered from a public medium. A psychiatric evaluation or Telco records would not be considered a public forum, so could not be used by an employer (unless the evaluation was given by the employer, I guess). A web page, on the other hand is about as public as you can get. I would agree that with the right technologies (proxies, remailers, etc) there would be a de facto protection of privacy, and (insert the not-even-close-to- a-lawyer disclaimer here) that there should be some legal basis that since the effort was made to hide the True Name, the content could not be used, if there were a compromise. Looks like a win-win. It still doesn't deal with morons who *provide* their employers with the ammo to terminate employment. You can make a system foolproof, but you can't make it damnfoolproof. Mark - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo at pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo at deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster at localhost abuse at localhost uce at ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNL7xbXzbrFts6CmBAQG6YQgAhywAsGpbDIBY/5h/KSLG+C4BdpYuqIOD Gg1Zy/05gB02+Ap2o7YOpx5pP92iG4uWnYNlUcq6tf+83atd5Y0fvHEnuS5GinQX mdZ8HqZMNR/XaVH+J/BLWcWPjWWGYnI7Zms/3VFvE5tA+0KVX3lKBqpTiCRCOIZi pqInONdqo1derBidHiM0KEcfZJ6zwecaS164NgmKI7/+akDSauK/ja44sKc+4bLI Qfaamrm9pXPKNvc+WOMMNzjNpwzqemfpobDsB3morIcn/eJa/1sE3H2NwnMKvOLY bNhXjfj9P5FNiMqJMHeKMX0vVJGPp3B72y0QEJwpaR5LHst792KF1w== =WPJ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From failaqa35 at psi.ch Fri Jan 16 14:13:18 1998 From: failaqa35 at psi.ch (failaqa35 at psi.ch) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:13:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: StockAlert News: UNFC expects increase of $50M in assets Message-ID: <199801162788FAA38691@post.co.jp>

REMINGTON-HALL CAPITALIZES ON RESURGENT REAL ESTATE MARKET Company expects to acquire $50 million in assets by mid-1998

DALLAS -- UNFC ), a diversified real estate investment firm formerly known as Universal Fuels Company, is quietly acquiring over $50 million in previously undervalued, undercapitalized or mismanaged commercial properties and making this new major player one of the best moderate-risk real estate investments in 1998. Founded in 1975 as Universal Fuels, the company provided uranium to the world as an alternative fuel, but as uranium became less used as a nuclear fuel source than other more economical and useful materials, Universal Fuels' stock declined almost to extinction over several years. The stock price was less than 1� last year. Four months ago officials from Camden-Townwest, a privately held real estate investment firm, approached Universal Fuels former management about converting Universal Fuels into a publicly traded real estate conglomerate. Camden-Townwest, founded in 1994, grew from $19,000 in cash to $3 million in assets in three years without seeking any outside capital. Since the change in management and corporate mission last October, UNFC has seen its stock value increase by over 800%. Remington-Hall is now making its move to increase assets at a tremendous rate. By mid-year management expects to acquire in excess of $50 Million in office buildings and multi-family properties at a significant discount to their market value. "We have been referred to as 'Cat Burglars of Real Estate'," said Douglas Fonteno, president & chief executive officer, "and that's a title we plan to keep." Douglas T Fonteno previously Chairman of Camden-Townwest and formerly with Merrill Lynch, is Remington-Hall's new President & Chief Executive Officer. Larry Hood, formerly Chief Operating Officer of Pizza Inn and Chief Financial Officer of Reliance Mortgage Company, is Remington-Hall's Chief Financial Officer, giving the new company immediate and substantial financial integrity. Wade Hyde, previously public relations and investor relations executive for Blockbuster Video and FoxMeyer Corporation, is Vice President of Marketing & Public Relations. Currently Remington-Hall is seeking to be listed on the Pacific Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq National Market. The company anticipates announcing over $10 million in newly acquired assets by the end of January. Name: Remington-Hall Capital Corporation ( formerly Universal Fuels) Symbol: Nasdaq: UNFC Mission: To aggressively acquire steeply undervalued real estate properties due to previous mismanagement or undercapitalization. Management: Senior executives with diverse experiences, including: Fortune 500 corporations, leading stock brokerage firms, real estate companies and national marketing. Goals: To increase assets to $10M by January 98 and $50M by mid-year Address: 1401 Elm St., Ste. 1818, Dallas, TX 75202-2925 Internet: www.remington-hall.com E-Mail: InvestorRelations at remington-hall.com Quote: Yahoo! Remington-Hall Except for the historical information contained on the website, the matters set forth inthese documents are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the "safe harbour" provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date hereof and the Company disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

< From tm at dev.null Thu Jan 15 22:24:58 1998 From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:24:58 +0800 Subject: I'm going to count to ten... Message-ID: <34BEF573.1221@dev.null> BadBillyC, I thought you'd finally come to your senses. The headline read, "Clinton Urges Feinstein To Run." Delighted, I scanned the page for the picture of you pumping a round into the riot gun, with a caption quoting you as saying, "I'm going to count to ten..." Sadly, upon reading the accompanying news blurb, it became apparent that the women in your life give you just as much trouble when you're keeping Little Peter out of the relationship, as they do when you let him bend you to his will. Jesus, BillyC, where do you get these broads? It's par for the course for a politician to have the morals of a two dollar whore, but when they have the brains and the heart of a two dollar whore, as well, then you can't hang out with them without "gettin' some on'ya." As far as that mutt-faced, child-murdering bitch in Justice goes, I assumed that Buddy was brought in to replace her, but I was wrong again. If that dumb Nazi cunt keeps popping up in the SunSite GunSight I've got trained on BadBillyG, then I'm going to take care of her sorry ass by telling BillyG how to tie her tubes in a knot. 1. Buy the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, and begin construction on the new MicroSoft Headquarters Building. 2. Place media ads suggesting that the citizens of Redmond consider sending their children to a safer location until the DOJ action against MicroSoft has reached a conclusion. 3. Hold employee fire drills twice a day, and give visitors to MicroSoft Headquarters a sheet containing safety instructions in the event of an armed government assault during their visit. 4. Train bright lights and blaring loudspeakers on the MicroSoft Compound several times per day, in order to prepare employees for possible government action. Think I'm kidding, Bubba? NEWS FLASH!!! San Francisco Chronicle / January 13, 1998 / Page C1 SUN FOCUSES IN ON NT MARKET - New Unix workstations priced as low as $3,000 Sun Microsystems today will launch a new line of inexpensive workstations aimed at blunting the spread of powerful Windows NT desktop computers in the high-profit technical market. ... Golly, gee. The poor bastards are being forced by BadBillyG to offer their products at a reasonable price in order to get a share of the market. Isn't life hard... After years of waiting for these pricks to begin facing enough competition to have to come down off of their high-horse and deliver a product at a price the average joe could at least contemplate, the DOJ is trying to put a lid on the competitor who is delivering the goods for a reasonable price. Netscape? I got MicroSoft Exploiter for free, but I still use Netscape, which I also got for free. Buy Netscape? Kiss my lily-white ass, Bubba. I pay for the son-of-a- bitch every time it takes me five minutes, instead of one, to download the ton of advertising on a website that is brought to me courtesy of the wonderful browser folks who are designing their software for corporate advertising and sales departments, instead of for my benefit. Let's get our cards on the table here, BillyBob. I'm sure that you're getting some good campaign-contribution mileage out of the Micro$not Ba$her Coalition, and would like to squeeze M$ for a good chunk of change, as well, but there is a serious flaw in your game-plan. For starters, BadBillyG already gets much of what he wants by working the actual power-points in the corporate/political structure, instead of fucking away large amounts of time, money and energy on the power-players who may or may not be able to control those who actually control the power-points. Secondly, you cannot be certain that myself or some other lunatic will not storm M$ Corporate Headquarter$ and take the employee$ ho$tage, demanding that BillyG donate a million dollar$ a day to the Democratic Election Campaign to guarantee their $afe release. While the public is willing to pretend that the anti-trust action is for their benefit, I sincerely doubt that they are willing to be made fools of by denying the obvious implication that such an action would be consistent with current political maneuvers, but infinitely more direct and honest than the maze of deceit and lies that those currently in power use to achieve the same ends. I am beginning to froth at the mouth and drool on myself, so I suppose that I should get to the point, and sign off shortly. Bottom line: Look out of your office window. Do you see the sniper, sitting on the rooftop of... OK, just kidding... Seriously, I am certain that there are millions of sheeple who slapped their foreheads and proclaimed, "Who'da thunk it?", when they read such recent news headlines as: "Nixon Knew!" "Joe Camel Designed To Lure Teens!" "Scientists Discover Earth is Round!" The point is, there are also a few chosen individuals (presumably including yourself, but not necessarily Dan Quayle) who had already figured these things out for themselves, long before the mainstream media pronounced them as officially acceptable reality-bytes. Some of these selected individuals belong to agencies, organizations and groups which overtly or covertly work within the established socio- politico-economic structure to guide and direct the future of society, government, civilization, and human development. And some of them work outside of, or within-yet independent of-the officially established structures... I am certain you are aware that there are certain individuals and organizations who have been actively preparing to take advantage of the increasingly popular boogeyman known as the 'Millennium Bug', while keeping quiet about it so as not to alert others as to the true import of the problem in regard to the radical nature of the changes which will accompany it in the socio-politico-economic arenas of society. What you are undoubtedly unaware of, however, is that most of the major players within the established power-structure are sucking hind-tit to a variety of techno-guerilla cells formed many years ago to influence and/or counteract the activities of those who were making plans to manipulate the situation to benefit the few and the powerful. The importance of these individuals is not in the particular nature or scope of their activity, but in the fact that they are quite simply volunteers who, unasked, have separated themself from the crowd around them and committed themself to 'charging the hill' that they see needs to be taken in order to provide safety and protection for their fellow soldiers. One of these individuals is a soldier who was taken prisoner and interred in a German prison camp in 1943. The fact of the matter is, he was a German national of French descent who robed himself in the uniform of a fallen aviator in order to get himself incarcerated for the purpose of helping Allied prisoners of war to escape and successfully find their way to safety. The man was a shipping clerk who knew nothing of war, the military, or the like, but who did what he felt must be done, despite his obvious unsuitability and inexperience for the task. What I will never forget is the puzzled look I saw on his face when someone tried to express sympathy for the trials and tribulations he faced as a result of his actions. His answer was to the effect that, "It was the price to be paid for the decision I made...I knew that going in. It was the price of freedom." The point I am trying to make is that the DOJ actions against M$ could probably be described by reference to a song I once wrote about a cross-eyed girl, titled, "If Looks Could Kill, You'd Only Be Hurting Yourself." The IRS, Treasury Department and the IMF are going to have all they can handle just trying to tread water when the Millennium Bug throws a good screw into their butts. BadBillyG and the Micro$not Exploiter Bowling Team are going to take home their share of the New Millenium trophies, but Blanc Weber and Jeff Sandquist are crazy-gluing enough of the pins to the floor to make sure that the employees of Nut$crape and $un can still put shoes on their childrens' feet. (I've got to admit that your spin doctors are doing a damn fine job of building public sympathy for corporate executives who earn more in a year than Jane and Joe Public will earn in a lifetime.) In closing, I would like to assure the members of the various government and private agencies involved in investigating me as a result of my thinly veiled virtual-death-threats against sundry world leaders and titans of industry that their efforts are not a waste of time. I honestly consider myself a viable prospect as a corporate/political assassin--it's just that circumstances invariably arise which preclude my acting on what I instinctively know to be the right course of action. In essence...I'm only human. From the corporate perspective, I knew years ago that IBM executives deserved to die a slow and horrible death, but I could never quite bring myself to overcome my resistance to destroying some truly great suits in the process. I have had BadBillyG in my gunsights and headlights several times over the years, but I would always back off when overcome by the urge to tickle him under the chin, and call him "little feller." As far as politics goes... I couldn't whack Nixon because he was so patently evil that his ultimate destiny is to be reincarnated as himself, and nothing I could do to him could compare to that. Gerald Ford wasn't worth the trouble, since it seemed likely that he would kill himself by bumping his head on some inanimate object, anyway. Jimmy Carter never really existed, politically, as far as I was concerned. One of us slept through his administration, and I think it was him... Reagan...after his statement that "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles.", it would have been like whacking out a retarded kid. It was no accident that a movie actor was the target of an assassination by someone who watched one too many movies. I washed my hands of his involvement in the American political structure by writing a song called, "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For The Monkey..." George Bush was a conspiracy theorist's dream. He had so much shit on his stick that the wise move was to leave him alone until his tenure was in the history books, and then lay out a documented trail leading from the financial source of his backing originating in profits from Nazi business dealings during World War II --> to his bald-faced audacity in trumpeting the rejuvenation of the Third Reich's 'New World Order.' (But, when Bush was President, "...the trains ran on time.") Then, we have 'Slick Willie'. Apologies in advance, but you have pretty much been nailed as a dope-smoking, draft-dodging, drug-dealing adulterer who has a history of questionable business dealings ranging from real-estate fraud to selling post-mortem military honors to people who died fucking their brains out in the Lincoln bedroom in return for illegal campaign contributions. My gut instinct tells me that there have probably been dozens of potential assassins who have had you lined up in their gunsights, only to see your silly grin and realize that you are not a whole lot different from themselves. "To him who does what within him lies, God will not deny his grace." ~Saint Thomas Acquinas Nixon was a ratfucker, plain and simple. He didn't really *need* to do the things that he did--he did them because he was willing to sell his soul in order stretch every mile gained by legitimate effort an extra inch or two by taking the dark path. The fact of the matter is, the Presidency requires an individual who is capable of being a two-faced, double-dealing ratfucker when the situation requires it, but Republicans seem to do it for the money, while Democrats generally seem to be more attuned to the emotional ramifications of the illusory power of the position. i.e. - a Rolling Stone music critic once stated that the power in the music played by Southern Bad-Boy Rockers came from the fact that they genuinely believed that they were going to burn in Hell for playing Rock & Roll, but they knew that doing so was in their blood and their destiny. Do you ever find yourself blowing out bad-ass pelvic-motion darkie- licks on the saxaphone, and wondering how in the hell you managed to have this much fun and still scam your way into being elected as one of the most powerful political figures in the allegedly free world? Do you ever wonder why lunatics such as myself give you so much shit over promoting Nazi cunts like Reno and FineSwine, when Hillary did some genuinely fine work in regard to health care and still got broad-sided by statists (both male and female) who thought that there was something inherently sinful in her not suggesting that her ideas could be made financially feasible by holding a bake sale? (I voted for Geraldine Ferraro, but only because I figured that we wouldn't have to pay her as much as a man.) BTW, I just received a letter from Chelsea, and she thanked me for my compliments on her butt, but told me she didn't think it was proper to date a psychopath who was stalking her father with a Stihl chainsaw. (So there is little need for you to lose a lot of sleep over the prospect of having to invite me for Thanksgiving dinner, and call me "son.") I also sent a letter a few weeks ago to Ted Kaczynski, offering to carry on his work while he is incarcerated. I got a letter back from him today, but I'm afraid to open it... Anyway, I realize that I'm starting to babble incoherently, and need to go take my medication, so I'll close by giving you a few words of wisdom, in case there's a chance that you're banging the White House staff person hired to screen your email. Re: Allowing the DOJ to perform a rim-job on BillyG... BadBillyG has the brains to realize that he only has to hang on for another 12 months, or so, before the Wonderful World of Computers is up to their ass in alligators over the Year2000 bug. If you truly believe that an individual who became the richest person in the world by promoting a fairly mediocre operating system is going to bend over and lift his robe while the dipshits who were incapable of competing with him (even when they had software and operating systems vastly superior to his) scramble to make their Y2K-non-compliant software comatible with their bum-buddy's Y2K-non-compliant software... I have some ocean-front property in Tucson, Arizona. Re: The poor, put-upon souls competing with Micro$not... It has been confirmed by extensive research that the future can be reliably predicted by taking note of the actions and reactions of the lunatic and criminal elements of society. I happen to qualify on both counts... I enjoy the living shit out of Micro$not Ba$hing, but it pisses me off when the government does it... I will kiss your lily-white ass if you can prove to me that the goddamn whiners bitching about BillyG's profits are not pulling down millions of dollars a year themselves. BillyG has a hundred billion dollars? I don't care if he has a fucking trillion dollars...those other whining fucks DO NOT have a God-given right to get filthy rich by keeping the price of their products inflated through the stifling of competition from Micro$not. What, exactly, is Nut$crape'$ complaint? That if Micro$not gives away InteNet Exploiter for free, that they cannot force me to pay to acquire a product that is designed to deliver commercial advertising to my screen when I surf the Net? Fuck those assholes... What, exactly, is $un Micro$ystem'$ complaint? That they have to produce products that don't cost ten times what Micro$not's products cost, in order to capture a decent market-share? Fuck those assholes... FRESH FROM THE CLUESERVER!!! I'm a fucking lunatic. I've had enough electricity run through my brain to keep Las Vegas in business for a decade. I require intense medication to keep from chewing on the rug and barking at the moon. Nonetheless, I was promoting and addressing computer issues in the 80's that are being recognized as essential to the future of technology at the close of the 90's. And what you should find *really scary* is that there are sane, functional people out and about in your world who not only know all that I do, and more, but who are in a position to throw a serious fuck into the heart of any technology system that the powermongers are counting on to promote their narrow self-interests over those of the general public. On a recent trip between B.C. and California, I stopped off in Micro$not Land long enough to vandalize the computer system in one of their offices so that their faxes to certain locations would translate the words "Bill Gates" into "Little Feller." Mission Impossible-->Mission Complete. Let me explain this as simply as possible. When the clock strikes 2000, many corporate and government agencies can kiss thier software functionality goodbye. Many of the companies who believe they are in a position to take advantage of the situation will find that small anomalies exist in their systems which will take tens of thousands of man-hours to resolve (only to discover that the 'solution' leads to another anomaly of the same nature). Keep in mind that what I am describing is only a small part of a process that began in 1989, with a computer manifesto which contained the words, "His Login is Panic, His Password is Crash. When Time is of Essence, He'll Rise from the Ash." These words were written by a computer neophyte who recognized the path the future would take, but who had no idea what could be done to counteract the evil he foresaw. Others *did* know what could be done...and more... The Y2K problem is quickly gaining recognition as a factor that will lead to monumental changes in the process of separating the winners from the losers in the coming Millennium. What is recognized by only a select few is that there are other considerations which have been programmed to go hand-in-hand with the Y2K problem which will have even greater influence on who will emerge in the next Millennium as the chief movers and shakers of society, government and civilization. In 1989, the Author wrote, "Gomez is coming." In 1998, the Author arrived for gomez's funeral the day before he was assassinated. The timing of his arrival was dependent upon the information he received from Netizens he didn't know, and had never met. Netizens who had ears to hear, and had acted on his warnings in ways which went far beyond the ken of his own understanding of the prophecies which he spoke. The Author neither knew nor cared about the source or intentions of those who had directed him to travel to Berkeley in time to say a last goodbye to his friend and mentor. Neither did he know or care how or why he instinctively knew that upon opening the letter he received from the alleged UnaBomber, that his brains would be splattered upon the wall behind him, forming the words, "TRIN--The Revolution Is NOW!" I'm Going To Count To Ten... ~~~~~~~~~~~ TruthMonger ~~~~~~~~~~~ From blancw at cnw.com Thu Jan 15 23:07:49 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:07:49 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115230112.0087a340@cnw.com> The new upcoming version of Windows gives the user the choice of using Internet Explorer as the main interface for access to the desktop icons, the computer files, internet services like AOL, or web pages. It is still the user's choice to use Win95 as they are accustomed to - they must manually select this option in order to use it - but it is a new way of using Internet Explorer, for more than just viewing web pages. You could say it is becoming the window from which to view the rest of the rooms in the house, including what's beyond, outside of it. .. Blanc From iNqwx6tuC at vers1esv.com Fri Jan 16 16:07:36 1998 From: iNqwx6tuC at vers1esv.com (iNqwx6tuC at vers1esv.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:07:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Deregulation of US Electricity Message-ID: DEREGULATION OF THE U.S ELECTRIC UTILITY INDUSTRY IS CREATING A $215 BILLION FINANCIAL OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU! Imagine Utility Savings of 20% - 40%! now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... <<<<< Call 1-800-358-2754 for 24 hr, 1 min message >>>>> __________________________________________________ Effective Jan '98, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 "Billion Dollar" industry to free-market competition. We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. full training and support; minimal start-up; lucrative. New Ground- Floor Opportunity with established international networking giant. Capitalize now on projected $10 Billion in annual revenue. People made millions with deregulation of the Telecommunications Industry. The Electric Utility Industry will be three times the opportunity. <<< Call 1-800-358-2754 for 24 hr, 1 min message >>> (Please do not reply via e-mail. Call our Voicemail and leave your name, telephone number and the best time to call and we will contact you as soon as possible) To be removed, call the above number and SPELL your email address stating you would like to be removed from future mailings. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 16 00:12:50 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:12:50 +0800 Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199801160402.WAA08670@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801160755.IAA07967@basement.replay.com> Jim Choate wrote: > If you're looking for a good beginners book for number theory that > is focused on using computer programs (BASIC) then check out: A free/share-ware version of BASIC was released a few years ago, called UBASIC, which understands big integers. From schear at lvdi.net Fri Jan 16 00:35:46 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:35:46 +0800 Subject: RSA Conference: Deterence measures for SPAM Message-ID: Kevin McCurley, IBM, delivered a paper on using electronic commerce techniques (i.e., d-postage) to deter SPAM. He cites a work by Cynthia Dwork and Moni Naor, "Pricing via Processing or Combatting Junk Mail," http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/Papers/trs/CS95-20/abstract.html I wan't able to access that paper and would be interested to know how similar their appraoch is to HashCash. --Steve From spm at dev.null Fri Jan 16 00:48:23 1998 From: spm at dev.null (Spam Prevention Remailer) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:48:23 +0800 Subject: Automated Rejection Notice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BF19F7.7BF6@dev.null> Dear Remailer User, This automated reply is for the purpose of informing you why your message was rejected by our remailer filtering software. Rejection Message #17: Your remailer request was rejected because header analysis indicated that it contained an unsolicited commercial message. Rejected Email: > From: delicateflower at basement.com > To: Spam Prevention Remailer > Subject: Make $$$ Fast !!! > > Anon-To: child-abuse at hotline.com > > Help! > I am a ten year old girl being forcibly confined against my will > in a kidnapper's basement at 1040 E. Munroe, in Seattle, WA. > The sick pervert who kidnapped me is allowing his friends to rape > me in return for large sums of money which he keeps in the basement > room in which I am being held. > Anyone who takes pity on me and comes to my rescue can Make $$$ Fast > by pocketing the great pile of cash that this sick pervert has > accumulated by profiting from my suffering and abuse. > > Please help. > > Jon Polly Bonet-Klaus-Ramsey From toto at sk.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 16 00:48:41 1998 From: toto at sk.sympatico.ca (Toto) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:48:41 +0800 Subject: Forwarding remailer-ops posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BF11B2.4206@sk.sympatico.ca> Richard Johnson wrote: > > At 12:33 -0700 on 1/15/98, Mark Berry wrote: > > Hi to all members of the list > > > > Just a quick question... Does anyone object to their posts to this list > > being forwarded (to cypherpunk type lists)? ... > I don't really care about my own posts, should I make some. I worry, > however, about drawing in the kooks. > Richard My name isn't Richard, but I'm still a Dick... I agree that we should worry about drawing in the kooks who have little experience in proper construction of an aluminum-foil hat capable of drowning out the voices that try to twist our minds into believing that the purpose of operating a remailer is to provide a forum for unfettered communication, when Rush Limbaugh and Chris Lewis recognize that the true purpose of running a remailer is to block spam and UCE's. Even more frightening is the prospect that a US citizen might go so far as to use a remailer to send a message to the Whitehouse that men licensed to use guns against the citizens might find objectionable. Those who have never operated a remailer fail to realize that the main goal of a remailer-operator should not be to provide a non-discriminatory forwarding service for anonymous users, but to ensure continued operation by not ruffling the feathers of upstream providers, and to provide a spam/UCE filtering service for computer users who have foolishly spent their money purchasing email software which does not allow them to quickly and easily set up their own self-defined email filters. It has long been my contention that if a child being molested by 'Uncle Jim' is too fucking lazy to learn how to use PGP in order to help remailer operators cut down on spam, then they deserve every ounce of seminal fluid forced down their throat by 'Uncle Jim' and the guys who live in the dumpster behind the Greyhound station and are willing to share their bottle of Thunderbird with anyone who has access to vulnerable young children. Of course, I'm a pedophile, so I could be a bit biased in this regard. TotoHomoLoco From toto at sk.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 16 00:51:52 1998 From: toto at sk.sympatico.ca (Toto) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:51:52 +0800 Subject: Forwarding remailer-ops posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BF065B.3F43@sk.sympatico.ca> Privacy Admin wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Mark Berry wrote: > > > Just a quick question... Does anyone object to their posts to this list > > being forwarded (to cypherpunk type lists)? I will honour any requests not > > I object since it would likely increaes the volume of the mailing list, > which was designed to be low-volume (IMHO) so that all remailer operators > would bother to read it. Those operators who do not already read > cypherpunks may not welcome the increase of flaming, wildly tagentantal > material and plenty of petty bickering. Only an asshole without the brainpower to recognize the importance of open discussions of Tanya Harding's chances of forging a new career in the WorldWide Wrestling Federation would also fail to recognize that differences of opinion over the size of jockey shorts that Chris Lewis should be required to wear is essential to the future of the IntereNet. Privacy Admin (if that is your *real* name...) would be well advised to consider the astronomical rise in cost of InterNet access that could result from AOL'ers learning to successfully unsubscribe from mailing lists, instead of subsidizing the rest of us by paying exhorbitant fees to send multiple messages saying, "I'm SERIOUS! Unscribvive me from this fucking mailing list or I will keep complaining, instead of buying a clue!" If the foregoing doesn't seem to make sense, it's OK, because I am a list scibviver. (Although I have been unsuccessfully trying to ubscrivive for the last several months.) Tojohoto From gDNW90rE6 at m1Im.net Fri Jan 16 17:09:27 1998 From: gDNW90rE6 at m1Im.net (gDNW90rE6 at m1Im.net) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:09:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Deregulation of US Electricity Message-ID: <1M17JFVNVdpMx5> DEREGULATION OF THE U.S ELECTRIC UTILITY INDUSTRY IS CREATING A $215 BILLION FINANCIAL OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU! Imagine Utility Savings of 20% - 40%! now imagine being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring monthly commission on the Utility usage of consumers throughout the country... <<<<< Call 1-800-358-2754 for 24 hr, 1 min message >>>>> __________________________________________________ Effective Jan '98, Electric Utility Monopolies will be dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215 "Billion Dollar" industry to free-market competition. We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in all 50 States especially California and the Northeast. Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as 10-15 hours/week. full training and support; minimal start-up; lucrative. New Ground- Floor Opportunity with established international networking giant. Capitalize now on projected $10 Billion in annual revenue. People made millions with deregulation of the Telecommunications Industry. The Electric Utility Industry will be three times the opportunity. <<< Call 1-800-358-2754 for 24 hr, 1 min message >>> (Please do not reply via e-mail. Call our Voicemail and leave your name, telephone number and the best time to call and we will contact you as soon as possible) To be removed, call the above number and SPELL your email address stating you would like to be removed from future mailings. From rdl at mit.edu Fri Jan 16 02:00:36 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:00:36 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801160125.BAA00650@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801160956.EAA03776@the-great-machine.mit.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Adam Back: > Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be > running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is > local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. True. > However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. > It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut > down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There > are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP > addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut > them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. > > How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well > resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? By having anonymous remailers which are themselves anonymous -- running on discarded accounts, only known by a few other remailers, not the general public, perhaps by splitting up remailer addresses as a shared secret, so one remailer knows there is a "foo remailer" it can use, and has 1 of 3 where 2 pieces are necessary to have the address. and sends it to another remailer which may have the other part of the address. Perhaps probabilistic routing? Remailers which don't know all the components to an address, see how many they can assemble, and choose randomly? It does make enforcing "I want this remailed through multiple independent groups in case you're a fed" more difficult for the user -- perhaps they could send pieces of the message to be reassebled inside the remailer network? All of this is great, but it's a lot of work, and remailers are quickly consumed in this model. Thus what I think is the true solution: Providing a financial incentive for people to run remailers. This requires digital cash. I believe digital cash will soon exist, and thus this will soon be possible. (Also, a lot of these techniques would be valid in a higher performance non-email based system. Or even in a "type III" remailer network where secret sharing and probability and high traffic are used in place of message pools. Message pools are a direct tradeoff of performance for security -- an unacceptable tradeoff for current interactive systems, unless one could prefetch very effectively, or if so many people used a server that its message pool would not need to sit around very long -- this means the average user would be using a very small amount of the resources of a very large and highly loaded server -- this makes the large and highly loaded server an attractive target for attack. > > Adam - -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNL8uuKwefxtEUY69AQGUuwgAwl0YJM/Qd7uPySeEWQq+Dne0HezmAKSl iNkJmgK352V1xz2wBqKtCnvt74WffvonA8ggtlq7Qw/KrYP+i0gkYmQ0wm7FDeWc rhpLtymFhr7BDyGV2gusiYHOW9yFCQ381YeXxSuc/l3SKi2IV9l3fXFcGlMCRr1E vHUYPimEGSiKJgr6P0wjS++6fz0KYlkKy4US4YUIFqh0jmoIf018UgZPVhwnmaj6 pyzzesRk0X183fmDinXwQCP/UE+DnwfYl5tl9Uv+cRXRbkRZe6zLik+gig1H9inz SIdkGS9PjV2EuA+kKysFEARWaLh8U6oppBwJrk/cUs6zdBAgnNo/sw== =/ssf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pooh at efga.org Fri Jan 16 02:05:37 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:37 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116045037.031a4b40@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> At 01:25 AM 1/16/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote: >How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well >resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? An obvious thing to try is to add some more remailers. 300 remailers would not be immune to simultaneous shutdown by the authorities, but it would make it more difficult. A dozen of so remailers makes shutdown fairly simple. A less obvious thing to try is to get the general windows users to start making use of remailers. If Eudora, Pegasus, and Outlook came nym ready out of the box, with the ease of use of a spell checker, then this would generate enough traffic to flood the remailer network and require hundreds of servers. This idea has it's own problems, but there is not much traffic on remailers. One of the busiest remailers in the world still has only about 3,000 messages per day. One spammer can send mail to more destinations in a weekend than the entire remailer network in a year. Threats to the remailer network come from a few basic places. 1. Traditional law enforcement 2. Unauthorized law enforcement 3. "friends" of message recipients or "friends" of the remailer 4. unreliability of the machines that form the network 5. Hacking attacks 6. Design 7. User incompetence Of the above, the most dangerous in my opinion is "friends". This is what shut Balls down. This is where Cracker gets the worst complaints. Seldom do I hear a complaint from a message recipient, more I hear from "I have a friend who got this message..." Traditional law enforcement is a quick call with a thank you I'm dropping this. While penet shut down after an investigation, he alluded to the fact that he was just tired of the hassles. Weasel did not shut down because of the law, but due to the desire to not expose his ISP to hassles. Traditional law enforcement takes so long to investigate, the keys could be canceled and replaced several times. In the US I don't think that law enforcement really cares enough to issue a warrant. Almost no warrants have ever been issued for remailers. Though I would not be surprised to find that intense extra-legal investigations were done on cases that involved situations such as Jim Bell's Assassination Politics. Cracker goes off line for a few hours every month. We basically never lose messages, but we can delay some. We have a downtime between 1.6% and 3% on the overall average. This is our remailer only. Compare this with the network - we only had 26 minutes of downtime in the last 365 days. Recently another remailer went down due to a hard drive problem - for a week or more. Software and hardware problems are significant issues for remailers. Another is incompatibilities in moving data from one mail host to another. Every once in awhile machines just become incompatible, often due to sendmail configurations designed to block spam or provide better security. As for hacking attacks, Cracker/EFGA has had some people censured by their ISP for stuff like spoofing us, mailbombing, and that good 'ole ping thing. To be honest, we've never been hurt by it anyway, but we do monitor for such things. A significant problem is in design. The remailer network is not designed to be robust or fault tolerant. There is no error notification to the user. If your message gets dropped along the way, there is no recovery system that gets it through another route. If you misspell your destination address, or other problem exists, you don't get notified of the event. Still for a group of volunteers running software that is patched almost every week, providing services for free - they don't do a bad job. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From softdeals at hotmail.com Fri Jan 16 18:40:47 1998 From: softdeals at hotmail.com (softdeals at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:40:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Resolve to get Organized for 1998...Free Software! Message-ID: <8354786523748> No more excuses...with Contact-Pro for Windows organizing your business, club or church contacts is quick, easy and effective...and, for a limited time only, it's FREE! 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Click here to go to http://www.contact-pro.com for information or to order your copy. From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 02:52:53 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:52:53 +0800 Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <19980116104604.39449@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:08:46PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > The fact is that most people don't see the need to either secure their > messages against eavesdroppers or to sign their messages. But PGP was > "cool" and rode the same wave that "Wired" rode. Few messages to the cypherpunks list are signed. -- Steve From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 06:53:14 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:53:14 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack (fwd) Message-ID: <199801161517.JAA10130@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:56:12 EST > From: Ryan Lackey > Adam Back: > > Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be > > running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is > > local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. > > True. Where do these private access servers get/send their traffic ultimately? > By having anonymous remailers which are themselves anonymous -- running > on discarded accounts, only known by a few other remailers, So we have lots of little groups of remailers that are hidden from public view by a 'ring' of public remailers (required if we want the general public to access them)? By what mechanism do I as a 'secret' remailer let others know about my existance and hence willingness to carry traffic? By what mechanism is my trustworthyness to be judged for this secret duty? > general public, perhaps by splitting up remailer addresses as a > shared secret, so one remailer knows there is a "foo remailer" it can > use, and has 1 of 3 where 2 pieces are necessary to have the address. and > sends it to another remailer which may have the other part of the address. Doesn't the remailer have to know who to ask to have a reasonable shot at getting the pieces? Isn't the list of sources going to have to be publicly accessible? Doesn't this also increase the bandwidth problem? Considering the scale required to impliment this, where is the monetary pay off for these secret remailers? > Providing a financial incentive for people to run remailers. This requires > digital cash. I believe digital cash will soon exist, and thus this will > soon be possible. At least one current potential for income is the indipendant key server. Charge some amount to keep the keys for a year and charge per access by remailers since they would be commercial enterprises. If the cost were pennies per access you could even access the casual individual user who wants to pull a key (though I personaly would like to see this cost be born by the key server operator). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 07:02:12 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:02:12 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack (fwd) Message-ID: <199801161527.JAA10183@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:50:37 -0500 > From: "Robert A. Costner" > Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack > An obvious thing to try is to add some more remailers. 300 remailers would > not be immune to simultaneous shutdown by the authorities, but it would > make it more difficult. A dozen of so remailers makes shutdown fairly simple. Considering that the federal law enforcement agencies have had decades to deal with organized crime and such over a national and even international level, 100' level warrants is not even a resource strain if the pay off is large enough. Now if we had 10,000 or 100,000 the picture begins to change radicaly. > Threats to the remailer network come from a few basic places. > > 1. Traditional law enforcement > 2. Unauthorized law enforcement > 3. "friends" of message recipients or "friends" of the remailer > 4. unreliability of the machines that form the network > 5. Hacking attacks > 6. Design > 7. User incompetence 8. Operator incompetence 9. initial startup difficulties 10. lack of an effective financial model > Traditional law enforcement takes so long to investigate, the keys could be > canceled and replaced several times. This is another problem with the entire crypto process as now implimented. Users of keys, either for encryption or signing, tend to think of the keys as long term entities. Considering the increase in computing power, the coming ubiquity of law enforcement monitoring on the network, increased payoff for hackers as the traffic of personal info increases, and general human failure keys should in fact be changed often (say a couple of times a year, annualy at least) > A significant problem is in design. The remailer network is not designed > to be robust or fault tolerant. There is no error notification to the > user. If your message gets dropped along the way, there is no recovery > system that gets it through another route. If you misspell your > destination address, or other problem exists, you don't get notified of the > event. These are all criticisms of the TCP/IP and associated network mechanisms and not specific faults in the remailer model. It has to work with what it has. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From GoToWebPage at GoodNews-1998.net Sat Jan 17 00:56:27 1998 From: GoToWebPage at GoodNews-1998.net (GoToWebPage at GoodNews-1998.net) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:56:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Confessions Message-ID: <53358097_35361056> ********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* One person's journey from insurance adjuster, to crusader for equity of access: http://Ppage.net?Tony.B ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: Legooo at ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 16 09:38:36 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:38:36 +0800 Subject: Kaczynski attempts suicide Message-ID: <199801161731.SAA19055@basement.replay.com> > SACRAMENTO, California (AP) -- The judge in Theodore Kaczynski's > trial declared him "lucid, calm" and free from signs of mental > illness just hours before the Unabomb suspect tried to kill himself > in his cell. I don't get it. The guy is facing the death penalty, and now they're trying to keep him alive. From schear at lvdi.net Fri Jan 16 09:42:40 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:42:40 +0800 Subject: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801160125.BAA00650@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: At 6:37 PM -0800 1/15/98, Tim May wrote: >At 5:25 PM -0800 1/15/98, Adam Back wrote: >>Ryan Lackey writes: >>However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. >>It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut >>down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There >>are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP >>addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut >>them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. > >Well, I have long argued for the need for thousands of remailers, esp. the >"everyone a remailer" model. > >But, although I agree we need many more remailers, I think Adam overstates >the ease with which remailers can be shut down, at least in the U.S. Came across this paper and thought it might address remailer reliability, "How to Maintain Authenticated Communication in the Presence of Break-ins," http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~tcryptol/OLD/old-02.html --Steve From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Sat Jan 17 01:48:04 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:48:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 17 '98 Message-ID: <19980117082803.3088.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> Welcome to Saturday's issue of Eureka! 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TRANSLATIONS As well as English you can now choose any of these languages DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm ESPA�OL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm FRAN�AIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?170 Pic 2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?171 Pic 3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?172 Pic 4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?173 Pic 5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?174 Pic 6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?175 Pic 7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?176 Pic 8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?177 Pic 9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?178 Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?179 ============================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US. ============================================================ From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 16 10:04:58 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:04:58 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Rule Update Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980116175815.006cbac0@pop.pipeline.com> Update of yesterday's post: The Bureau of Export Administration published 15 January 1998 in the Federal Register, "Implementation of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Items: Revisions to the Commerce Control List and Reporting Under the Wassenaar Arrangement; Rule." The rule in TXT format is available in three parts as published: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.txt (354K) http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule2.txt �(373K) http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule3.txt �(32K)� Or all three parts (742K) in a compressed self-extracting Zip file: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.exe (194K) Excerpt for Category 5 -- Telecommunications and "Information Security": http://jya.com/bxa-wa-cat5.htm �(39K) From jamesd at echeque.com Fri Jan 16 10:22:07 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:22:07 +0800 Subject: Legality of faxed signatures. Message-ID: <199801161807.KAA28571@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- I believe that there is case law or legislation that a faxed signature is worthless if it is bit for bit identical with another signature, which of course it usually is these days. Can anyone with a spot of legal knowledge give me something impressive sounding to scare people who rely on those signatures. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG m3FpGHzBYajbGdNyApmYfwBYZOzY44LHPv7+KZPs 4hFtbEu745IQyZxamC5p6PUwCCpOVAo/LKzZD8Uqu --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 16 10:28:28 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:28:28 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801131602.RAA06619@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980116101728.00841910@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 11:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >As I have made clear, I don't believe "banning research" which is neither >"commerce between the states" nor a direct harm to others (as the "robbery" >example Michael Froomkin used earlier as a parallel is), is supported by >the Constitution. There are different degrees of UnConstitutionalness. Some things are so blatantly off the edge that even if Congress passed them, they'd be laughed out of the first court that addressed them, like banning plant-growing or discrete mathematics or arresting everybody with Japanese ancestors. Others are much grayer areas, where court cases addressing them would take a long time and cost a lot of money, which can be prohibitively expensive for the early phases of research. >And if the cloning ban is a ban on research in certain areas, as many are >pushing for (but, again, the final laws have not been proposed, much less >passed, so we'll have to wait), then is this not prior restraint on >publishing? At least for the US, the important issue is that Congress hasn't passed any laws, nor do they need to - this is a speechmaking opp for Clinton, and maybe for a few right-wing or left-wing Congresscritters, so they can all sound concerned about this scary new technology, and so the public will remember that they feel our pain. A much more realistic, and Constitutional, possibility is that the Feds will ban use of Federal money for cloning research. As a civil libertarian, I think that's just fine, and they should do the same to other controversial research, like nuclear weapons and fetal parts, for which significant fractions of the public don't want to be forced to fund those activities they believe to be immoral or dangerous. Alternatively, [Note: End of serious section] they could use the confiscatory tax model pioneered with the machine gun and marihuana bans - the tax on cloning body parts is an arm and a leg, but if you clone an entire human it'll cost you your firstborn child... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From gonad99 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 16 10:36:58 1998 From: gonad99 at earthlink.net (James Little) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:36:58 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801161822.KAA26360@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Hi. I just recently subscribed to your mailing list. I've read ALL of your stuff. I just don't understand what it is u guys are really about. Please help. From paulmerrill at acm.org Fri Jan 16 10:46:26 1998 From: paulmerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:46:26 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980115230112.0087a340@cnw.com> Message-ID: <34BFD47A.1DAF@acm.org> Blanc wrote: > > The new upcoming version of Windows gives the user the choice of using > Internet Explorer as the main interface for access to the desktop icons, > the computer files, internet services like AOL, or web pages. It is still > the user's choice to use Win95 as they are accustomed to - they must > manually select this option in order to use it - but it is a new way of > using Internet Explorer, for more than just viewing web pages. > > You could say it is becoming the window from which to view the rest of the > rooms in the house, including what's beyond, outside of it. > .. > Blanc It is currently available for such use. No just upcoming. PHM From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 16 10:54:15 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:54:15 +0800 Subject: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: Eternity Services) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801161848.TAA29226@basement.replay.com> Adam Back wrote: > Unfortunately good quality textual steganography encodings are I think a > hard problem for reasonable data rates. One advantage in our favour is the > massively noisy and incoherent garbage which forms the majority of USENET > traffic. Plausibly mimicing an alt.2600 or warez d00d message, or a > `cascade' seems like an easier target. yA, d00d, i g0tz yEr stEg0 dAtA eNcOded r1gh+ h3re... ;-) From toto at sk.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 16 10:59:11 1998 From: toto at sk.sympatico.ca (Toto) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:59:11 +0800 Subject: Forwarding remailer-ops posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BFA4FD.67FC@sk.sympatico.ca> XXXX wrote: > > > Those who have never operated a remailer fail to realize that > > the main goal of a remailer-operator should not be to provide > > a non-discriminatory forwarding service for anonymous users, but > > to ensure continued operation by not ruffling the feathers of > > upstream providers, and to provide a spam/UCE filtering service > > If the xxxx remailer was to allow non-PGP message and to stop > processing block requests, would you be willing to underwrite any legal > costs incurred? Nope. I have always found that those who attempt to cause me legal problems find themselves suddenly beset by problems of a much greater magnitude than those presented by my presence and actions, and quickly turn their attention to dealing with the greater problems in their life. > You yourself know how repressive the Canadian government is, look at the > RCMP takeover in Moncton, look at the RCMP attacking (law-abiding) > protestors at APEC, it is all around us. We are trying to preserve feedoms > in Canada, but I don't see any results from your cynical crap. All you > seem to do is whin, poke fun, and annoy. At the end of the day how much > have you done? I am growing tried of your holier than thou speech from the > throne. Actually, it is difficult to maintain a 'holier than thou' attitude when you're a cynical, whining, annoying asshole (but Lord knows, I try). As to how much I *do* by the end of the day, it is really nobody's business but my own, since the repressive forces you mention above make it advisable for many forms of active resistance to oppression to be done quietly, or from the shadows. Even when poking fun at fellow remailer-operators who sometimes appear to have forgotten that their original objective was to drain the swamp, I assume that the activities reflected in their public communications are not necessarily representative of their total contribution to providing tools and services supporting the basic human rights and freedoms which have become increasingly dangerous to exercise. The public remailers being maintained are an important training ground and showcase for the communications and privacy/anonymity tools being developed and used in their operation, but their very availability itself results in their exposure to the haphazard vagarities of social pressures and targeted oppression by those forces which feel threatened by tools which allow others to avoid being monitored and controlled. Current threads on the CypherPunks list regarding Eternity servers, mirrors, BlackNet, covert and/or private backroads on the 'Super- Highway', etc., are being disseminated to--and studied with great interest by--a wide variety of individuals who are fast becoming increasingly aware that the next few years will be turbulent times wherein those who fail to take steps to cover their own ass will find themselves being 'protected' by the government and corporate wolves offering us technologies based only on the "Trust Us" system. Revolutions rarely begin with grand pronouncements and massive public displays of resistance in the street. They usually begin in basements and secret rooms where increasing numbers of citizens begin preparing to protect and defend their own freedom and rights. When the shit hits the fan, many are surprised to find how many of their friends and neighbors have already been doing the same. The Revolution is *always* NOW! From anon at anon.efga.org Fri Jan 16 11:24:11 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:24:11 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: From president at whitehouse.gov Fri Jan 16 11:47:43 1998 From: president at whitehouse.gov (president at whitehouse.gov) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:47:43 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <199801161822.KAA26360@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199801161934.NAA16266@pc1824.ibpinc.com> If we knew the list would not be any fun! -----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of James Little Sent: Friday, January 16, 1998 12:24 PM To: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: Hi. I just recently subscribed to your mailing list. I've read ALL of your stuff. I just don't understand what it is u guys are really about. Please help. From wabe at smart.net Fri Jan 16 11:51:26 1998 From: wabe at smart.net (wabe) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:51:26 +0800 Subject: I'm going to count to ten... etc Message-ID: <004b01bd22ce$7c76a6c0$ab8588d1@justice> -- I have to say, I really enjoy your posts TruthMonger - as deranged as they are. So out of all of us, who's going to the steg conference this april? Also, is there a java version of crypto kong so I can use it in linux? And the solution to the speeding-ticket-giving camera is, of course, camo paint jobs. But you all knew that, right? --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H QbR0ngV/+ZI9uuiEe6o4CkfBhQowsHozF7TsZU5f 40HJxqCEceUgzeJFjTbRWSH9LJxdzYMLQbtwctBfM From wabe at smart.net Fri Jan 16 11:55:55 1998 From: wabe at smart.net (wabe) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:55:55 +0800 Subject: e-mail muddling. Message-ID: <008801bd22cf$131ec440$ab8588d1@justice> -- Also wouldn't it be easier to de-muddle an e-mail message than a brute force attack? I mean, you KNOW what muddled it. And you know the general way it got muddled. It's not pgp, it's just some line breaks a bit too early for their time... -wabe --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H zvMubhARmsdOWVOYi7Su/Y9qnSIOIjc9Wuqb6G5G 40asyOJEF0Kflm3y9623Ab0qCaryGJ1TtAaE4JU1y From pooh at efga.org Fri Jan 16 12:04:04 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:04:04 +0800 Subject: Legality of faxed signatures. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116145928.0339e060@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> At 10:07 AM 1/16/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >I believe that there is case law or legislation that a faxed >signature is worthless if it is bit for bit identical with >another signature, which of course it usually is these days. > >Can anyone with a spot of legal knowledge give me something >impressive sounding to scare people who rely on those >signatures. In Georgia, the state appeals court declared that faxes are "beeps and chirps" and therefore not writings. As a fax is not a writing, it cannot have a signature. Therefore the signature cannot be valid. This was in a case that involved a required notice to arrive by a certain time. Traditionally, on a writing anything is a signature including an 'X', spit, and the words "Mickey Mouse". -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 16 12:20:09 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:20:09 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Rule Update Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980116201222.006ea474@pop.pipeline.com> Good point about the hazard of EXE files. Thanks. A zip file is available: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.zip (168K) From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 16 13:18:01 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:18:01 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology Message-ID: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's technology, but it's a slow process. Consider this: If someone builds a replicator which takes a week to make a copy of itself, every person on this entire planet could have one within eight months. Think about it. From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 13:22:16 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:22:16 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162148.PAA11597@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:10:07 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Nanotechnology > From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. Speak for your self...;) ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jamesd at echeque.com Fri Jan 16 14:25:42 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:25:42 +0800 Subject: Legality of faxed signatures. Message-ID: <199801162211.OAA14165@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- Thanks, though this sounds like a silly judgment. It looks to me as if the great majority of judges and lawyers, and hence presumably the great majority of CEOs, are blissfully unaware that one can do anything with a fax other than scan it in from paper and ink at one end, while it is printed out on paper and ink at the other end. In actual fact a very large proportion of faxes never see paper and ink at either end, creating endless opportunities for manipulation. This is a big problem for me, because I want to scare businessmen into using digital signatures. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG E05oBvvh8W9NDUWZgPx6YirXgrcL6+CEkbWuhVNo 4MQrt6D7Hjqw8OzIX9J2wbPBc7D77B+PochPDi4KZ At 02:35 PM 1/16/98 -0500, Robert A. Costner wrote: >At 10:07 AM 1/16/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >>I believe that there is case law or legislation that a faxed >>signature is worthless if it is bit for bit identical with >>another signature, which of course it usually is these days. >> >>Can anyone with a spot of legal knowledge give me something >>impressive sounding to scare people who rely on those >>signatures. > >In Georgia, the state appeals court declared that faxes are "beeps and >chirps" and therefore not writings. As a fax is not a writing, it cannot >have a signature. Therefore the signature cannot be valid. This was in a >case that involved a required notice to arrive by a certain time. > >Traditionally, on a writing anything is a signature including an 'X', spit, >and the words "Mickey Mouse". > > > -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 > Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org > http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From kping at nym.alias.net Fri Jan 16 14:28:53 1998 From: kping at nym.alias.net (Kay Ping) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:28:53 +0800 Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach Message-ID: <19980116220255.3116.qmail@nym.alias.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In one of the messages on the eternity thread someone suggested using radio signals. This is an interesting approach which certainly deserves further attention but digital radio requires special hardware which I prefer to avoid. However, some of the characteristics of radio signals can be emulated on the internet. Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. The equivalent for this is of course services like usenet and IRC. Both are already used for providing anonymity. Radio is also quite good at hiding the location of the transmitter - you tune your radio and the signals are just there, coming down your antenna. It takes special equipment to locate where they originated. It occured to me that the equivalent on the net would be to receive packets with invalid source addresses. They are just there, coming dowm the phone line to your modem. It takes significant resources and snooping on a massive scale to locate where they are coming from.. All this is assuming you can find some way to send a request with your address to the server. For eternity this means that the location of servers where documents are stored can be kept secret if they transmit the documents using packets with invalid source addresses. Receivers of eternity documents will not be able to tell where they are coming from. Since there is no bidirectional link between transmitter and receiver the protocol must be implemented over UDP. To protect against packet loss the data may be encoded with redundancy. The correction code can be similar to that used on RAID disk arrays - adding redundant blocks consisting of XOR of other blocks. Missing blocks can be reconstructed by XORing together other blocks received. To provide even better anonymity the transmitter may send the messages through one or more onion routers which decrypt one layer of encryption. These routers do not store information, do not know what information passes through them and do not know where it's coming from. Any packets they forward are sent without a valid source address. This should make them less vulnerable to attacks of all kinds. Can anyone speculate about their liability under US law? Putting caches on the routers will help both performance and security. Will it affect their liability in any way? If encryption is implemented properly all packets will look identical: blocks of random data of the same size and no source address. This will make traffic analysis difficult. The distance to the transmitter can be hidden by initializing the packet's time-to-live field to a value with random variations. That was the easy part. The hard part is to get the requests to the document servers without knowing their addresses. This can be done through the equivalent of remailer reply blocks or some kind of broadcast medium. The reply blocks would be implemented by the onion routers. Each hop could generate several copies, both for redundancy and as decoys. Packets used in reply blocks can look identical to packets with document data, including the use of invalid source addresses. In the broadcast version clients and servers subscribe to channels with many participants to hide their identity in the crowd. The system could use an existing service like IRC or a dedicated network, possibly based on modified IRC server code. Sympathizers with bandwidth to spare can subscribe too to provide better cover for the actual document servers. Servers could listen using trusted proxies or chains of semi-trusted proxies. The division into channels allows growth of the system if the total bandwidth of requests becomes too high. Using the public IRC networks has the advantages of being less suspicious and not requiring the deployment of new infrastructure. Requests could even be hidden steganographically in IRC traffic. Unfortunately, IRC server operators are touchy about abuse of their systems. Requests should be small. This allows replicating them to a large number of receivers without taking too much bandwidth. They can also be made to be of fixed size and contain no controversial information. Requests contain the document index as a compact one-way hash, the requester's IP address and the server's ID code. It may also contain hashcash or ecash payment. Requests should be encrypted to the server's public key. To keep them small, elliptic curve encryption may be used. A server may send random cover packets to hide the correlation between a request and its response. It may also add random delay before responding to the request. Delay will also help limit the bandwidth. Users of eternity need to be more patient that the average web surfer and the protocol should use generous timeouts. Since UDP has no flow control the server should always assume the client is using a modem connection and limit its transmission speed accordingly. Security has a price. The client software may be implemented as a local web proxy (in Java?) which identifies requests to eternityspace and converts them to this protocol. Public gateways may be set up to allow anyone to read eternity URLs. These public may also be used to protect the anonymity of the reader like the Anonymizer. Document servers and routers must be located on networks where there is no spoofed packet filtering. Since the common use of spoofed packets is in denial-of-service attacks more and more filters are being installed. It may become harder in the future to find places to put the servers and routers. I believe it should always be possible since it is not practical to implement filtering in places where there is a lot of traffic from different sources. In cases where the document server is located on a filtered network it may have to trust the routers to hide its location. This system is far from perfect: it has too many components and the weakest link is the transmission of requests to servers. I still believe it has some interesting sides which deserve further discussion. Your ideas are welcome. - ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping at nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEPAwUBNL26txHPAso8Qp7tAQGLEAfPeRgIL3OqiG67CLBO9TCe/oV5lmw66Pz1 Wl17ajHeSCX6qjACSZ3La73drUjIftL0G/18PkLd48VGmsF6izCnXB4fh8MAB6Ve QWjhRTvRSkKkwXK4t2tx6CUCdxOaJ9Phd6J02Z+MdjEGJ3jAdUdaHWo5zM5i6Ris wkgATEhGMpw8tjlnvR4erwu51iSrt62huPWJXl1pjyPfQbl0iyQtcGdQ1spIWLJC oaOI7QchHK3LjSuzN54MVCjRdz8fiI6JHAUnlqqsW29LBOZQkSnQedORCuIALwqe qOhSxMKbciLdVde3BBtpILpz5y91ulAecxOOwcnc7m5Pjw== =iLP5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 14:32:43 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:32:43 +0800 Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) In-Reply-To: <19980116104604.39449@tightrope.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <199801161530.PAA00710@server.eternity.org> James Donald : > On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:08:46PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > The fact is that most people don't see the need to either secure their > > messages against eavesdroppers or to sign their messages. But PGP was > > "cool" and rode the same wave that "Wired" rode. > > Few messages to the cypherpunks list are signed. It might in fact be a dumb move to sign messages to the cypherpunks list -- proving that you wrote whatever, when for example the USG adds cypherpunks to it's growing list of terrorist organisations. Similarly it might be dumb to sign private messages to other subscribers -- some of them may turn out to be narcs, or may be coereced into narcing etc. You can use non-transferable signatures for private email, but it's probably better not to sign publically posting messages, unless you have a persistent anonymous nym unlinkable with your meat space persona. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801162154.VAA00662@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > Ryan Lacket writes: > > Traditional law enforcement takes so long to investigate, the keys > > could be canceled and replaced several times. > > This is another problem with the entire crypto process as now implimented. > Users of keys, either for encryption or signing, tend to think of the keys > as long term entities. Considering the increase in computing power, the > coming ubiquity of law enforcement monitoring on the network, increased > payoff for hackers as the traffic of personal info increases, and general > human failure keys should in fact be changed often (say a couple of times a > year, annualy at least) Make that instant key changes for mixmaster remailers by using forward secrecy and direct IP delivery to enable the interactive communications pattern required for immediate forward secrecy. Ulf Moeller (current mixmaster maintainer) has this on his to do list I think. Even for email, I spent a lot of time arguing with PGP Inc employees about how forward secrecy could be obtained within PGP 5.x. (The OpenPGP list seems to have gone dead... wonder what is going on.) The separate encryption and signature keys provided by PGP 5.x / OpenPGP allow you to have short lived encryption keys, and longer lived signature keys. The web of trust is provided by the signature keys. PGP 5.x implements automatic key update. It is cheap to generate new Elgamal keys every week or day or whatever if you share the public prime modulus. You can also opportunistically send use once Elgamal keys in messages which allows someone to have even more immediate forward secrecy. In addition you can use interactive forward secrecy between mail hubs, and you can also authenticate this with PGP's web of trust using a design I posted to cypherpunks and ietf-open-pgp towards the end of last year with a subject of something like "PGP WoT authenticated forward secrecy". Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 14:33:52 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:33:52 +0800 Subject: reasons for local eternity proxies (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) In-Reply-To: <199801161517.JAA10130@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801162142.VAA00581@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > > Adam Back: > > > Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be > > > running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is > > > local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. > > > > True. > > Where do these private access servers get/send their traffic ultimately? Local eternity servers get their data from a news feed. Preferably a local news feed, or a satellite based feed, or second choice SSL encrypted NNTP server, third choice NNTP server. (Reason for local news feed being preferabl is that it protects the NNTP traffic which would otherwise allow eavesdroppers to observer which articles you were reading. SSL is only a partial solution because you are then trusting the SSL NNTP server operator.) Local servers don't generate any traffic, "local server" is really a misnomer, it is a local proxy for reading news... it presents a view of USENET articles which makes them appear as web pages. It keeps copies of those web pages more up to date versions are read in news, this allows fast access to the web space. There is a trade off between update period and size of web space as the amount of USENET traffic you can generate without annoying people is limited. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801162205.WAA00681@server.eternity.org> [I am keeping this Cc of the list as I have come across 4 or 5 people in the last month or so, most of who have been readers of the list for years, but who were not up to date with the fact that cypherpunks list is not located at toad.com.] James Little writes: > I just don't understand what it is u guys are really about. Please > help. First I think you are subscribed to the old list... toad.com only covers some of the traffic. See: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/cp.html for instructions on subscribing to the current cypherpunks list home. For what cypherpunks are about, cypherpunks are about crypto-anarchy, which some thing will long term corrode the power of governments, needless to say most here also think this would be a good thing. You should read Tim May's cyphernomicon: http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ You might find these books interesting also: "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", Heinlein "Machinery of Freedom", David Friedman 2nd Ed. Paperback Published by Open Court Publishing Company Publication date: August 1989 ISBN: 0812690680 People also recommend "True Names" by Vernor Vinge, but I have been unable to obtain a copy so far. Perhaps someone could scan it and post it on the eternity servers. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 TruthMonger wrote: > I also sent a letter a few weeks ago to Ted Kaczynski, offering to >carry on his work while he is incarcerated. I got a letter back from >him today, but I'm afraid to open it... TM, Do us all a favor--open the letter! From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 14:45:59 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:45:59 +0800 Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162312.RAA12160@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: 16 Jan 1998 22:02:55 -0000 > From: Kay Ping > Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach > In one of the messages on the eternity thread someone suggested using > radio signals. This is an interesting approach which certainly deserves > further attention but digital radio requires special hardware which I prefer > to avoid. There is at least one way to do it with standard equipment, course it must be 1-way only. The source takes the phone line from their standard 4800 modem and put it in the audio in (both should be 600 ohm, be shure to use a matching transformer for isolation). At the other end you do the same sort of thing but use the modem to decode the data. You can not have full-duplex with this method, half-duplex only. > Radio is also quite good at hiding the location of the transmitter - you > tune your radio and the signals are just there, coming down your antenna. > It takes special equipment to locate where they originated. Yeah, another radio, a map, a ruler & pen, a omni-directional antenna, and a car. Check out the ARRL for various antenna designs. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 14:48:37 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:48:37 +0800 Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) In-Reply-To: <19980116104604.39449@tightrope.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <19980116224808.11732@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Fri, Jan 16, 1998 at 03:30:05PM +0000, Adam Back typed: > You can use non-transferable signatures for private email, but it's > probably better not to sign publically posting messages, unless you > have a persistent anonymous nym unlinkable with your meat space > persona. Hmm this is a very good point which may explain the limited use of PGP on this list anyway. I also wonder whether the low uptake of PGP is more due to it being too hard to use between different mailers and too hard to use generally for the nontechnical. SMIME of course despite bad cypherpunk karma is easy and maybe even works between mailers. -- Steve Mynott tel: 0956 265761 pgp: 1024/D9C69DF9 88 91 7A 48 40 72 BD AC 4D 71 59 47 01 AC 56 E9 There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. --A. Einstein From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 14:50:07 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:50:07 +0800 Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162319.RAA12288@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:30:05 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) > It might in fact be a dumb move to sign messages to the cypherpunks > list -- proving that you wrote whatever, when for example the USG adds > cypherpunks to it's growing list of terrorist organisations. We're an 'organization'? Where is my monthly newsletter?....;) We should also pick our treasurer with some care. It is the prime target for law enforcement since it provides them access to the money records. In general I have to agree with Adam though, in the real world with ubiquitous and surreptitious monitoring signing documents is actualy a liability in many if not most cases. About the only exception is dealing with a contractual relationship. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 14:53:26 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:53:26 +0800 Subject: forward secrecy for mixmaster & email (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162321.RAA12340@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:54:34 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: forward secrecy for mixmaster & email (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) > > Make that instant key changes for mixmaster remailers by using forward > secrecy and direct IP delivery to enable the interactive > communications pattern required for immediate forward secrecy. Ulf > Moeller (current mixmaster maintainer) has this on his to do list I > think. I agree. It is probably one of the most misunderstood and must under-addressed problem with crypto in my opinion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 16 15:05:23 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:05:23 +0800 Subject: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801130006.SAA24034@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801162300.AAA03770@basement.replay.com> > More related sites... PALO ALTO, Calif.(Reuters) - Sun Microsystems > Inc. will launch a new line of workstations Tuesday, aiming to > challenge its rivals and blunt the spread into markets for > high-powered desktop computers used by engineers of PCs using > Microsoft Corp.'s Windows NT. Hmm... Considering that you can buy a PC w/ Linux and have a Unix workstation for less than the cost of a new computer with NT, I wonder who Sun is really targetting here. Most of the people buying NT are the same people who bought their last OS from Microsoft, and don't feel like trying anything new. Sun's real problem is that they were charging much more for their computers than it would cost to put together the parts. Hence, the drop in demand. But I suppose 'The evil Microsoft Empire is taking away our customers' makes for better headlines, even if it is bullshit. From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 15:07:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:07:50 +0800 Subject: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162336.RAA12510@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:00:09 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] > From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > Hmm... Considering that you can buy a PC w/ Linux and have a Unix > workstation for less than the cost of a new computer with NT, I wonder > who Sun is really targetting here. Corporations and businesses which feel more secure with a commercial enterprise backing the system. > Most of the people buying NT are the same people who bought their last > OS from Microsoft, and don't feel like trying anything new. There are *many* businesses which have been unix shops exclusively in the past who are now implimenting NT based servers for a variety of reasons. In some cases the intent is to drop the Unix boxes completely over the span of say 5-10 years as alternate applications become available. It's a bigger market than the home, soho, or individual corporate user at stake. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From pooh at efga.org Fri Jan 16 15:09:47 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:09:47 +0800 Subject: Legality of faxed signatures. In-Reply-To: <199801162156.NAA01504@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116175450.0312afd4@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> At 01:56 PM 1/16/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >This is a big problem for me, because I want to scare >businessmen into using digital signatures. Part of the process for having a Digital Signature law is to establish the definition of a writing. Since faxes are not writings, but email is, you should be able to scare them into digital signatures pretty easily. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 16 15:16:38 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:16:38 +0800 Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116150412.006a44e8@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 10:17 AM 1/16/98 -0800, bill.stewart at pobox.com wrote: >At 11:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >>As I have made clear, I don't believe "banning research" which is neither >>"commerce between the states" nor a direct harm to others (as the "robbery" >>example Michael Froomkin used earlier as a parallel is), is supported by >>the Constitution. > >There are different degrees of UnConstitutionalness. Some things are so >blatantly off the edge that even if Congress passed them, they'd be laughed >out of the first court that addressed them, like banning plant-growing >or discrete mathematics or arresting everybody with Japanese ancestors. >Others are much grayer areas, where court cases addressing them >would take a long time and cost a lot of money, which can be prohibitively >expensive for the early phases of research. Hate to bust your bubble, but they did the Japanese thing during WWII...the survivors and next of kin finally got a token payment last year. >Alternatively, [Note: End of serious section] they could use the >confiscatory tax model pioneered with the machine gun and marihuana bans - >the tax on cloning body parts is an arm and a leg, but if you >clone an entire human it'll cost you your firstborn child... They have machine gun bars!!! I think I'll take up drinking! :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNL/na8JF0kXqpw3MEQIgVwCdGSVh/DcIQEDLuq13PBa++52IpfAAmwT1 vL1W6JlBhRK07B0Xj/xKRPkz =tbH/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116122934.006a44e8@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 02:35 AM 1/15/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >I'm assuming this has something to do with the eternity server/black_net >discussion that has been going on. So I'll take a stab at it, not that it >may make any sense in the actual context ... > > - You generate the code and sign it > > - You deliver the signed code to a data haven server of some architecture > (note that you don't know where it is or who runs it, I'll assume you > use some particular usenet newsgroup as your drop point) > > - Somebody else comes along and sees a list of available items and selects > yours (again through a usenet based request mechanism). > > - They receive the code signed with 'your' key and decide they want to > verify the signing (through yet another usenet channel). > >The problem with this model is in the second step. What is to keep them >from removing your signatory, moding the code, and then resigning it. If the >recipient desides they want to check the sign they have two choices: > > - select an anonymous key that has been previously stored on some sort of > key server. > > (if they are running a eternity server blind they could be running a > key server blind as well, it follows that at least some of the > users of your software wanting to verify the signing will go to this > server and hence have corrupted code, if we're using the usenet model > this is even more likely since they could be running a feed point for > other usenet feeds downstream and hence capture many if not all requests > for the product, especialy if they were the only server to actualy > carry a copy.) > > - contact you the author directly (I'm assuming of course you were silly > enough to put a publicly available key directly traceable to yourself > on it in the first place) in which case they simply intercede from a > upstream tap and verify their request in your behalf. > >In either case there is no guarantee that what comes off the server is >what you the source put on there. Hence the long term security of the key >is compromised. In particular, in the second case, since they already know >who provided the illicit data to the server there motive is clearly to >track the users. This breaks the anonymity of the data haven. > >Implicit in a workable data haven model is the goal of both source and sink >anonymity. This means that any signed data on the server must provide a >mechanism for the user to verify the sign by access to a suitable key to >generate the appropriate hash and compare it to the one that the server >delivered. If they match you should have the correct unadulterated document. Jim, there are > 2 parties in the matter being discussed: the author of the item (who wishes to remain anonymous), the person who wishes to use the item (who probably wishes to remain anonymous), and N reviewers/authenticators of the item, who may or may not wish to be anonymous. In the case of the reviewers, signature verification may be possible outside of the BlackNet/Eternity structure. For example, I could look at the source for Joes Awesome CryptoKillerApp, or the latest manual from GunzenBomz Pyro-Technologies, and sign the files indicating that I cannot find any security flaws or that I tried some of the "recipes" and blew up a local pedophile's house. My key is publicly available at the MIT keyserver; it has been since PGP 5.0 came out. I have posted hundreds of times to Cypherpunks; most of these posts have been signed with my key and include the fingerprint of my key. It would be fairly difficult for any attacker to forge a signature with a false key; it would involve either rubber-hosing my passphrase, changing history on all the Cypherpunks archives (including any on the item end-user's machine and on the machines of all the Cypherpunks they correspond with), or re-creating my private key from my public one. A similar situation exists for other entities that customarily sign their posts, such as Bill Geiger, Monty Cantsin (assuming he ever got around to posting his public key), Nerthus, etc. "Certified by #314159" does not in itself inspire confidence, but if hundreds of signed writings by #314159 exist, such that #314159 has high reputation capital, it begins to do so, assuming that #314159's passphrase hasn't been rubber-hosed or otherwise compromised. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNL/DK8JF0kXqpw3MEQL3agCdGY2Zj4lCoJjW+PRSyoc0Vyvd48cAoMwl 8ePeJ0Dbka+Jel+n1zSf+Zl/ =mG+m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116113405.006a44e8@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:41 AM 1/15/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: >Another attack would be having 5 NSA agents sign a piece of code, but >you could prevent that by having the list made up of distinct well known >individuals who are unlikely to all be bought -- if the NSA wants to >give $100m each to the most frequent 100 posters on cypherpunks, I want >to get in line :) You can have cuts right behind me! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNL+2K8JF0kXqpw3MEQK5vgCdH8N7F7fyTkrWn1E+mBhznrIDqZwAnjpG xE2ngJSG0BZJ4crdJb6EAYm8 =huFc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 15:21:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:21:50 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162348.RAA12709@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:29:34 -0800 > From: Jonathan Wienke > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for > coercion (fwd) [my entire previous post deleted...geesh] > Jim, there are > 2 parties in the matter being discussed: EXACTLY. That is why there is a potential for a MITM (requires at least 3 parties) attack. > My key is publicly available at the MIT keyserver; it has been since PGP > 5.0 came out. So what? If Alice is being monitored for whatever reason and she requests your key Mallet simply intercedes and inserts their own key. How is Alice going to catch a clue? > key. It would be fairly difficult for any attacker to forge a signature > with a false key; It isn't the source but the recipient that is under attack. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From owl at owlseye.com Fri Jan 16 15:31:32 1998 From: owl at owlseye.com (owl at owlseye.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:31:32 +0800 Subject: OK to send e-mail? Message-ID: <199801162310.SAA11440@ns.owlseye.com> OK to send an e-mail to cypherpunks at ssz.com? From amaret at infomaniak.ch Fri Jan 16 15:35:55 1998 From: amaret at infomaniak.ch (Alexandre Maret) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:35:55 +0800 Subject: Swisskey: Swiss issuing office for Internet certificates established Message-ID: <30FC30BB.776975B1@infomaniak.ch> http://www.swisskey.com/mitteilung_e.html Swisskey: Swiss issuing office for Internet certificates established Zurich/Berne, 18 December 1997 - Swisscom, Telekurs and DigiSigna have established the joint venture Swisskey and thus laid the foundations for secure electronic commerce in the worldwide web. The certificates issued by Swisskey are available to individuals and companies and enable clear and secure mutual identification in the Internet. Swisskey will be registered in January 1998 and will start offering its services on the Internet at www.swisskey.com in the second quarter of 1998. Electronic commerce has good future prospects: telebanking and teleshopping in the Internet and the secure exchange of EDI messages between applications are some of its possible applications. So far, however, service offers and their acceptance have both been limited, since service providers and customers cannot identify each other immediately and are dependent on bilateral agreements. Electronic certificates are the solution to this problem. They offer mutual trust in the otherwise anonymous field of electronic commerce. They allow users to be identified and texts to be signed digitally and encoded in such a way that only the recipient can read them. Users can obtain a certificate from a registration office by showing some form of identification. Possible registration offices are post offices, Swisscom shops, banks and chambers of commerce. "The Swisskey joint venture aims to encourage the development of electronic commerce in Switzerland by offering a customerfriendly, secure and upgradeable certification service," explained Swisskey Managing Director, Christian Graber. Swisskey will offer SSL certificates as supported by all common Internet browsers (X.509 certificates), Edifact certificates for EDI messages and application and companyspecific certificates for uses such as Intranet applications. Swisscom Ltd and Telekurs Holding AG each hold 47.5% of Swisskey AG and DigiSigna (an association of chambers of commerce of Switzerland and the Principality of Liechtenstein) holds the remaining 5%. DigiSigna also aims to win international approval for the Swisskey certificates. For questions: DigiSigna Otto M�ller omueller at zurichcci.ch Tel. 01 / 221 07 42 Fax. 01 / 221 76 15 Telekurs Holding AG Bernhard Wenger wnb at holding.telekurs.com Tel. 01 / 279 22 20 Fax. 01 / 279 23 36 Swisscom Sepp Huber Josef.Huber at swisscom.com Tel. 031 / 342 13 00 Fax. 031 / 342 13 10 From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 15:36:31 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:36:31 +0800 Subject: reasons for local eternity proxies (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801170004.SAA12914@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:42:52 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: reasons for local eternity proxies (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) > > (Reason for local news feed being preferabl is that it protects the > NNTP traffic which would otherwise allow eavesdroppers to observer > which articles you were reading. SSL is only a partial solution > because you are then trusting the SSL NNTP server operator.) >From a criminal perspective is it really important to know what you were reading but rather what you were generating? Using Van Eck it would be much easier and cheaper to determine what you were reading than spend the money, physical resources, and people time to figure it using traffic analysis. It's more incriminating to prove you sent a request for illicit data than you downloaded it. Sending it out shows premeditated intent. Simply downloading it shows only curiosity with no other evidence. Simple traffic analysis will determine your sourcing data even if it is fully encrypted. > Local servers don't generate any traffic, "local server" is really a > misnomer, it is a local proxy for reading news... it presents a view > of USENET articles which makes them appear as web pages. It keeps > copies of those web pages more up to date versions are read in news, > this allows fast access to the web space. I point my local news readers at my ISP's news server so I don't flood my link with several gig's of traffic a day. This is the primary objection to hosting a 'real' local news server - the bandwidth and hardware resource issues place it outside of most peoples financial ability. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From schear at lvdi.net Fri Jan 16 15:36:58 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:36:58 +0800 Subject: PEOPLEFINDERS Message-ID: >From: search at peoplefinders.net >Sender: search at peoplefinders.net >To: >Reply-To: search at peoplefinders.net >Subject: PEOPLEFINDERS >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:35:48 -0500 > >Imagine finding old friends, classmates, long lost relatives, old shipmates, ex-husbands, ex-wives, old girlfriends, or old boyfriends... > >WE FIND PEOPLE > >No matter why you are looking we can help. We utilize only ethical and legal means. 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Huge amounts of data make searching for your piece of the puzzle exceedingly difficult. > >WE HAVE AUTOMATED THE PROCESS > >Our computers search in a systematic automated way for the information you need. Without an organized and automated search program you would literally drown in the data. Which state's motor vehicle records would you check first? What if it cost some money? > >We know where to look -- we have been locating people for years working with insurance companies, collection agencies and attorneys. If a public record is available we will know about it, and we will have the access necessary to get results. > >LOW COST! > >Our highly organized and automated structure allows us to work for our clients on a person by person basis for a very low cost -- $19.00 per search payable by credit card or check. Not bad considering that access to some of the 34 states who offer DMV information on-line can cost upwards of $200 per year. 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If E-mail is more convenient, just complete the form below and reply to search at peoplefinders.net, or if you prefer, you can mail your request to: PeopleFinders, Inc. 11 East 36th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10016. > >REMEMBER - IT'S GUARANTEED > >If you are not satisfied within 30 days from the time you receive your results -- we will refund your money!!! > >ORDER FORM > >PLEASE ATTEMPT TO LOCATE THE PERSON LISTED BELOW. (PLEASE PRINT CLEARLY) > >1. SUBJECT COMPLETE NAME: _____________________________________ > (middle initial helps) >2. LAST KNOWN ADDRESS: _____________________________________ > >3. CITY, STATE AND ZIP: _____________________________________ > >4. LAST KNOWN TELEPHONE: _____________________________________ > (include area code) >5. SUBJECT DATE OF BIRTH: _____________________________________ > (approximate is OK) >6. SUBJECT SOCIAL SECURITY NO.: _____________________________________ > >7. MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION: _____________________________________ > (any other info you have) > >Items (1) (2) and (3) above - REQUIRED. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > UPON COMPLETION OF THE ABOVE REQUESTED SEARCH, PLEASE: > >[ ] MAIL or [ ] FAX or [ ] E-mail the results of the search to: > >YOUR NAME (please print) _____________________________________ >YOUR ADDRESS (if mailing) _____________________________________ >CITY, STATE and ZIP (if mailing) _____________________________________ >YOUR FAX NUMBER (if faxing) _____________________________________ >YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS _____________________________________ > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > CHECK THE APPROPRIATE BOXES FOR THE SERVICES YOU REQUIRE. > >[ ] $19.00 per request.(The basic search results will give you the name and address of the person you are searching for.) > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's telephone number (if available). > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's social security number (if available). > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's spouse name (if available). > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's date of birth (if available). > >Total Cost of search (if successful) $ ______________________ > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > PLEASE ACCEPT THE FOLLOWING PAYMENT: > >[ ] My check is enclosed. >[ ] Charge my [ ] Amex [ ] MC [ ] VISA > >ACCOUNT NUMBER: ______________________ EXPIRATION: __________________ > >I understand that my check will not be deposited or my credit card charged unless PeopleFinders locates the subject person I am seeking. PeopleFinders, Inc. will quarry their data bases and attempt to locate the person. If successful, PeopleFinders will deposit my check or charge my credit card. I agree that I have thirty (30) days to request a full refund if I am not satisfied with the results. I hereby authorize PeopleFinders to charge my credit card. > >AUTHORIZED SIGNATURE: _________________________________________ > >PRINT this page and mail or fax the order form to: > >PeopleFinders, Inc. >11 East 36th Street, 10th Floor >New York, NY 10016 >FAX (212) 213-3320 > >Additional information available at (212) 213-3000 Ext. 1900 or via E-mail - search at peoplefinders.net. Thank you. > >//////////////////////////////// > >If you wish your name removed from all future mailings - simply reply to this message with "REMOVE" in the subject line. Thank you. > >//////////////////////////////// > From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 15:39:35 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:39:35 +0800 Subject: Where for lunch on Tue.? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801170007.SAA13045@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > That could explain why every girl he gets dumps him in less than a month... > > He's cheap which means he shows up with wilted flowers and day-old bread. > Also explains why he can't keep people out of his crease, he uses them old > dull skates. Sorry, that wasn't supposed to go out to you folks....I think I'm about to get my butt kicked...;( ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 15:40:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:40:48 +0800 Subject: Where for lunch on Tue.? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801170006.SAA12970@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:25:13 -0600 > From: Kenneth Zuber > > I heard you weren't good either..... > I guess you get what you pay for > > Sean Starke wrote: > > > > > Tivoleers, be advised...he's looking to pick at least one of you up... > > I may be cheap, but I'm not free... That could explain why every girl he gets dumps him in less than a month... He's cheap which means he shows up with wilted flowers and day-old bread. Also explains why he can't keep people out of his crease, he uses them old dull skates. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 16 15:41:20 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:41:20 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980116153614.00838100@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 09:51 AM 1/15/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Skip the misleading metaphors and simply describe what the Web is (duh!), >what a browser is, and what Microsoft is bundling with their OS. >Anybody who by now doesn't know what these three items are is too >stupid to grasp metaphor, anyway. > >(Unless it's this: "Like, think of a beer company. The company wants to >include a can opener with the beer. Like, they even want to include an >automatic opening thing they call a "pop-top." Netscape, a maker of can >openers, wants the Justice Department to force Microsoft to remove this >pop-top feature so that more people will have to buy their can opener.") Actually, to continue twisttied analogies, MS is a maker of those plastic 6-pack-holder straps, and has recently discovered that beer is an important market (!) and added canned beer to their list of things they can hold (along with MS NewCoke, MS OEM-Cola.RC, MS Canned OJ, MS Canned News, and MSBeans.) Netscape, a maker of bottled beer (available singly, in cases, or in cardboard sixpack holders), wants the Feds to stop Microsoft from selling their plastic straps integrated with beer. All of us old geezers who remember drinking Home Brewed Real Beer and the younger hackers who were exposed to beer from kegs in college (even if they buy canned Rolling Rock at home because it's cheap) have been telling people for years that canning beer is a Bad Thing and that Microsoft wouldn't know beer if it bit them on the wallet. Bottles aren't a bad way to store beer, if you must sell it packaged, though Netscape's got a lot of gall complaining that MS makes dealers of MSBeerCans and MSBeerCanRings sell MSBeer along with them, seeing as how Netscape got their start giving away free beer in paper cups using the Computer Science Department Recreation Fund, and got the idea for Beer from those Europeans anyway, even if they did add the innovation of selling it in cheap one-drink-sized containers.... [OK, it wasn't very good, but at least it was better than doing yet another bunch of Java metaphors. Hmmm - there _are_ several brands of canned coffee, most of which taste like Microsoft made them.... :-] Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 16 15:47:14 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:47:14 +0800 Subject: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <199801120523.AAA12947@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801162343.AAA12152@basement.replay.com> Lucky Green wrote: > And the demand for such ecash systems is real. I personally carried a $10 > million offer for a non-exclusive license for the blind signature patent > to David Chaum. He declined the offer. "The patent is not for license". > DigiCash's CEO since March of last year, Mike Nash, also told me that > DigiCash was not considering licensing the patent. I knew that day that it > was time to quit. Not surprisingly, nobody heard from DigiCash since. You could challenge the patent, and probably win, for less than $10 million. There is quite a bit of prior art that Chaum neglected to disclose, especially a certain incident where Chaum, as editor of Crypto '84 proceedings, tried to supress part of ElGamal's paper which discussed 'signature conversion' (aka blind signatures). From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 16 16:02:07 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:02:07 +0800 Subject: UPDATE!! BAY AREA CYPHERPUNKS MEETING, SATURDAY 1/17, OAKLAND Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980116154921.008b6e30@popd.ix.netcom.com> Sameer asks that, due to building access limitations, everybody please show up by 2pm to be sure the guards will let you in, and "humor building management and sign in as requested by the guard". And there's a parking lot on Franklin between 12th and 13th, which is a block or two east/south of Broadway. > The January Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday afternoon > at C2 Software's office in Oakland. > > Agenda: Export Laws - Lee Tien and Greg Broiles > Work in Progress > Lots of discussion from RSA Conference. > > Time: 12-6pm followed by dinner - program starts at 1:00 > Location: C2Net Software, Inc. 1440 Broadway Suite 700, Oakland, CA > Phone: (510) 986-8770 Fax: (510) 986-8777 > Public Transportation - about two blocks from the 12th St BART station. > This is the best way to get there from San Francisco, > and parking for BART trains is easy. :-) > Driving - From South - take 880N to Broadway exit, about .9 mile, park > From San Francisco - Take the Bay Bridge to Grand Ave, > turn right on Telegraph and continue on Broadway. If you find yourself on 980, 11th or 12th goes to Broadway. > > Map URL: http://www.mapblast.com/yt.hm?FAM=mapblast&CMD=GEO&SEC=find&IC=0%3A0%3A5&IC%3A=C2+Suite+700&AD2=1440+Broadway&AD3=Oakland%2C+CA Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu Fri Jan 16 16:14:12 1998 From: jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu (John Blair) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:14:12 +0800 Subject: Legality of faxed signatures. In-Reply-To: <199801162211.OAA14165@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <199801170006.SAA06076@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Any lawyers on this list may want to correct me, but as I understand it contract law is *extremely* flexible concerning what a "signature" is. It is perfectly legal to negotiate a contract via conventional, plaintext e-mail. If you wrote a contract for me to sign and I wrote back "I accept this contract" then legally a contract would exist. This is the same as if you phoned me, described a problem, and agreed to pay me to solve the problem. Legally a contract would exist (though it would be foolish not to put the contract in writing in most situations). The law is concerned more with the ritual of forming the contract (preferably by writing it on some medium that can be examined at a later date) followed by some sort of record that both parties agree on the contract they formed. In fact, businesses work like this all the time. The reason it works is that the best way to enforce a contract is to *trust* the person you're forming a contract with. Obviously, just negotiating a contract via e-mail is dangerous. All of us know there are ways to forge or repudiate parts or all of this transaction. A paper signature, just like a digital signature, is an excellent tool for non-repudiation (You say: I didn't sign that! Your opponent says: we know you signed this b/c this is your handwriting/public key/etc). Whether or not it seems to be a good idea from the viewpoint of computer science is irrelevant-- the law focuses on the *ritual,* not the specific form of the document. Note-- I'm deriving this statement from a study that I did on digital signatures in contract law that was part of my undergraduate thesis. I am not a legal expert. If I am totally off-base please explain to me where I am wrong so I may revise my notions concerning contract law. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair at uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNL/2AQJjTpK3AXhBAQHJMgQAoPZfME2lyEm29ipy8CMGmt32RXhERF0D 1WyEMP+dxkcDb8LkgYwPYZZp8pAEac2Qd8puET3S6tJajj452TEPelfyKeKfMFva yFyWowFBON+R2AJT1HMXL2ArevRqTpbKD3mdjZ/qtWBbEf8Dh+gNoU0E+CoTbiEq 0lgp0nIrW9o= =I5Jy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 16 18:12:19 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:12:19 +0800 Subject: New Software Controls Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980117020259.00733f54@pop.pipeline.com> TH points out that there's a broad new provision in the BXA Wassenaar rule for controlling telecommunications software under Category 5, Part I - Telecommunications, quote: You might want to highlight the following section ... not sure of the entire context ... but this isn't something that I'd seen before. It looks like control of any software that can transmit data. c.3. ``Software'' which provides the capability of recovering ``source code'' of telecommunications ``software'' controlled by 5A001, 5B001, or 5C001; For the citation see: http://jya.com/bxa-wa/cat51.htm#5D001c3 --------- We've broken the rule into several components for easier access to the Commerce Control List revisions. See: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.htm From brianbr at together.net Fri Jan 16 18:46:19 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:46:19 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Skiing Message-ID: <199801170242.VAA10711@mx02.together.net> ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/16 8:27 AM Received: 01/16 5:18 PM From: Patrick McGarvey, mcgoo at worldnet.att.net To: Brian Riley, brianbr at together.net Subject: For the skier in us... > > What's the difference between John Denver and Michael Kennedy? > John Denver made it alive out of Aspen. > Has Elton John re-written any of his songs for Michael Kennedy? > Not yet, but he's done one about the tree: "I'm Still Standing" > How can you be sure that Michael was really a Kennedy? > Check the family tree. > How will the priest begin Michael Kennedy's eulogy? > "We are gathered here together on this slalom occasion...." > A simple accident? Some witnesses insist there was a second tree at > the snow-covered knoll... > What do Michael and JFK Jr's magazine "George" have in common? > * Wood pulp. > > New bumper sticker...."Plant A Tree....Kill A Kennedy...." > What's an event you don't want to be at? > * A Michael Kennedy New Year's Bash > What will it take to reunite the four Kennedy brothers? > A1: One more bullet. > A2: A season lift pass. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently." -- Nietzche From Wombat at aol.com Sat Jan 17 10:49:39 1998 From: Wombat at aol.com (Wombat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:49:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Adult Mail................Are you man enough? Message-ID: *****************************You Must 18********************************* Hi....Tired of all the B******T! I am a Hot.............Horney.........New Jersey Co-Ed! I will sell you my Sweet Panties, Hot Photo, Hot, Horney Letter. You won't be dissapointed. $ 20.00, Cash, Check or Money Order, Large S.A.S.E., and A note stating you are 18 or older. Send to: Vi Grant Box 2002, Suite 2B, Cherry Hill, NJ 08034 Please hurry, I have to get cash up for the Spring Semester, and I am sooo Horney!! Thanx.......Vi ( My girlfriend and I snuck in to use the campus computer!) **************************************************************************** From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 16 20:00:02 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:00:02 +0800 Subject: Genetic & Tissue Engineering - The Learning Channel Message-ID: <199801170429.WAA13873@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, FYI The show that was mentioned the other night regarding tissue and limb growth was shown tonite on The Learning Channel from 9pm to 10pm central. If you're interested check your schedule for a repeat. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From igor at Algebra.COM Fri Jan 16 20:15:15 1998 From: igor at Algebra.COM (Igor) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:15:15 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? Message-ID: Hi, At my leisure, I write free software. One of these programs is the usenet moderation bot STUMP. Right now I am writing another free program. I feel perfectly comfortable with the idea that I will not CHARGE money for these programs; for one, I am a beneficiary of a multitude of excellent free programs written by others, and just as well i realize that selling them would be more of a hassle than it is worth. My another pet idea is that programming is poetry, and therefore a person who only writes commercial software is almost surely going to lose whatever gift in programming that he had from God. However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but it is as far as I could get. Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to cash in on the free programs that he writes? Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_ | @___oo ( )_ /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= ) ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if ) ) /^\/ _) (_ ) ) _ / / _) ( ) /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ it's made of chocolate. ) < > |(,,) )__) ( ) || / \)___)\ (_ __) | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___== \______(_______;;; __;;; From esoftware57 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 17 14:03:47 1998 From: esoftware57 at hotmail.com (esoftware57 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:03:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: HOW WILL YOU SURVIVE WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR JOB? Message-ID: <199801172203.OAA28689@toad.com> HOW WILL YOU SURVIVE WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR JOB? *LEARN TO MAKE $1200 WEEKLY!!! Thousands of harworking people, just like you and me, are getting laid off each and every day. Working for someone else has NO JOB SECURITY!! 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E-mail (Your order will be dispatched within 24 hours of receipt of funds - money order fastest) From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 17 00:34:14 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:34:14 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: <199801170825.JAA23714@basement.replay.com> > > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser > > and an operating system? Is the combination like a car and an > > engine, or a car and a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >In this specific case it's more like garbage in a trash can. Nah. In this specific case it's more like shit and a toilet. Or if you wanted to get a bit obscure you could say that Windows is like LSD. It kills brain cells, attracts the really stupid in addition to the occasional person with a clue, and the typical user has random flashbacks when put in front of any computer at all. It has no useful purpose beyond making the user feel really good, costs a lot, and is dangerous to your (mental) health. It's produced, handled, and sold by a huge cartel (Microsoft) who shoots (runs out of business) anybody who opposes them. Those the cartel doesn't shoot they bribe (buy). And users enter into temporary or in some cases permanent fits of stupidity and hysteria during which they are a danger to anyone around them, particularly if they're armed (have a bulk mailer or platform-specific "web authoring tools" which produce crappy HTML). From whgiii at invweb.net Sat Jan 17 05:38:57 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:38:57 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801171351.IAA05548@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/16/98 at 10:11 PM, igor at algebra.com (Igor) said: >Hi, >At my leisure, I write free software. One of these programs is the usenet >moderation bot STUMP. Right now I am writing another free program. I feel >perfectly comfortable with the idea that I will not CHARGE money for >these programs; for one, I am a beneficiary of a multitude of excellent >free programs written by others, and just as well i realize that selling >them would be more of a hassle than it is worth. >My another pet idea is that programming is poetry, and therefore a person >who only writes commercial software is almost surely going to lose >whatever gift in programming that he had from God. >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, >but it is as far as I could get. >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to >cash in on the free programs that he writes? Not much. Biggest boost from writting free software (other than the fact of having the software) is to one's reputation capital. If one was intrested in entering into a new field of programming (commercially) having a few programs under one's belt never hurts. Shareware is not a bad alternative. Thoses who like your programs and are intrested in supporting your efforts are usally willing to spend a couple of bucks. I wouldn't plan on quitting your day job but if your code is popular it can help offset expences. Another approach is to do what Phil did with PGP. Freeware to individules and pay for business use. This depends on whether there is a business need for your programs or not. Get a job at a University. :) If you really had somthing intresting that you were planning on doing you may be able to get some type of research grant. I think that you find that most freeware/shareware authors hold down a 9 to 5 job to pay the bills and write their code on the side. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMCl649Co1n+aLhhAQGlvgP/dNtLV0A/qvzZZrXHYrNbqW3iAbRLPcbt ZyQuW0LHKr750o0cAiLW54O+h/3OtnA2BOLejuDoEnipkOY3QCrAshUCeWQoZw71 viw4hzhDIrXk/T6rhHM7y/GfLY8aYyNQ3pCK+Tb/L+uIxWakufPW0DimsMYgyA0K PNwHJGYgEro= =uCx1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vipul at best.com Sat Jan 17 05:43:03 1998 From: vipul at best.com (Vipul Ved Prakash) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:43:03 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801171808.SAA03742@fountainhead.net> Anonymous wrote: > I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. > Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a > surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's > technology, but it's a slow process. Quantum Well Lasers are three atomic layers of gallium indium arsenide, packed between ultra-thin layers of indium phosphide and used in all high speed CDROM drives on the market. The revolution is closer than you think! Vipul -- Powell lingered. "How's Earth?" It was a conventional enough question and Muller gave the conventional answer, "Still spinning." -- "Reason", Asimov. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail at vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From ghio at temp0181.myriad.ml.org Sat Jan 17 08:49:10 1998 From: ghio at temp0181.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:49:10 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801171645.LAA01243@myriad> nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) wrote: > I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. > Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a > surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's > technology, but it's a slow process. > > Consider this: If someone builds a replicator which takes a week to make > a copy of itself, every person on this entire planet could have one within > eight months. Think about it. Let's consider a rough estimate of whether this could actually work. Suppose you have a desktop fab with an ion gun that can put out 1 amp of current, housed in a 10-centimeter cube, and you want to build another cube. Assuming an average ionization energy of 10 eV and supposing this achieved an energy efficiency of 10% that'd be 100 watts. 1 coulomb/second = 6.24 x 10^18 atoms/sec. Assuming an atomic spacing of roughly 10^-10 meters, at that rate it'd take you about 18.5 days to construct one side of the cube with a thickness of 1mm, or almost four months to build another cube. I'd guesstimate another 4 months to build the electronics for it. And then you'd need some way to assemble the pieces. So roughly 8 months just to build one copy, rather than to achieve world domination. :) Still, unless I'm way off on these estimates, it's within the right ballpark. If the cubes were 1 cm, you could make copies in less than a day, assuming it didn't get too hot at that power level. Just figure out how you're going to feed the electricity and raw materials into all those little things... This sort of replicator is not what is usually considered nanotechnology, but if it actually worked, such a device could become quite popular. From Markus.Kuhn at cl.cam.ac.uk Sat Jan 17 09:27:41 1998 From: Markus.Kuhn at cl.cam.ac.uk (Markus Kuhn) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:27:41 +0800 Subject: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: <19980116220255.3116.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. Actually, this is only true for extremely carefully shielded military receivers and not for normal radios. Every receiver contains a local oscillator to bring the signal down to intermediate frequency (IF), which is emitting EM waves itself. In addition, the IF signal is emitted as well. As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence (MI5) used vans and planes already in the 1950s to detect spys while they received radio communication messages from Moscow and to protocol, which frequency bands the embassies were monitoring (operation RAFTER). Efficient receiver detection is an active process: You send out short bursts of a wideband jamming signal and try to find the downtransformed intermediate frequency equivalent of your burst in the compromising emanations of the receiver. This way, you get not only the location of the receiver, but also the precise frequency to which it is tuned. Locating radio receivers within a radius of many hundred meters this way was already state of the art in the spook community over 40 years ago, so you can safely assume that with digital signal processing, the performance parameters of modern systems have been increased significantly. Sending out spread-spectrum style pseudo-noise signals in the active probing bursts could give you in modern receiver detectors a considerable signal gain. Markus -- Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK email: mkuhn at acm.org, home page: From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Jan 17 10:45:46 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:45:46 +0800 Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801162319.RAA12288@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801170202.CAA00371@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > Adam Back writes: > > when for example the USG adds cypherpunks to it's growing list of > > terrorist organisations. > > We're an 'organization'? Where is my monthly newsletter?....;) There are a bunch of people subscribed to a mailing list called cypherpunks. There is no organisation, this is an anarchy, as can be readily observed :-) I only used `list of terrorist organisations' because I think that is the US government term for their little black list. > In general I have to agree with Adam though, in the real world with > ubiquitous and surreptitious monitoring signing documents is actualy a > liability in many if not most cases. About the only exception is dealing > with a contractual relationship. Even for contracts I think you would be better off not connecting to your meat space persona if you could help it. eg. Use a nym, post a bond with a high reputation cyberspacial arbitration service, use designated verifier non transferable signatures to allow the arbitration service and other party to the transaction to verify your signature, but to make the signature non-transferable to other parties. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801171025.KAA00273@server.eternity.org> [ObNote: the cypherpunks list is not at toad.com] John Young information terrorist writes: > TH points out that there's a broad new provision in the > BXA Wassenaar rule for controlling telecommunications > software under Category 5, Part I - Telecommunications, > quote: > > You might want to highlight the following section ... not sure of the > entire context ... but this isn't something that I'd seen before. It looks > like control of any software that can transmit data. > > c.3. ``Software'' which provides the capability of recovering > ``source code'' of telecommunications ``software'' controlled by > 5A001, 5B001, or 5C001; Export ban on decompilers? Disassemblers? Debuggers? These tools are general purpose, so this seems particularly weird. Adam From frantz at netcom.com Sat Jan 17 10:56:39 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:56:39 +0800 Subject: call for proposals: "Media, Democracy and the Public Sphere" inJune 1998 Message-ID: I wonder what these peoples' take on the Internet is? If the net isn't a "democratic public sphere", what is? >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:56:01 -0800 (PST) >Reply-To: cda96-l at willamette.edu >Originator: cda96-l at willamette.edu >Sender: cda96-l at willamette.edu >Precedence: bulk >From: "T. L. Kelly" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: call for proposals: "Media, Democracy and the Public Sphere" in >June 1998 > >The Union for Democratic Communications (UDC) invites participation in >its next international meeting, June 11-14, 1998, in San Francisco, >California, addressing the topic "Media, Democracy and the Public >Sphere." > >UDC welcomes papers, audiovisual works, panels, workshops and projects >that break with traditional, monological approaches, to promote dialogue >and interaction around questions of critical communications and media >activism, as suggested below. Please send proposals for presentations >by no later than MARCH 1, 1998, to: > > Prof. Bernadette Barker-Plummer > 1998 UDC Conference Chair > Department of Communication > University of San Francisco > 2130 Fulton Street > San Francisco, CA 94117 > email: barkerplum at usfca.edu > >The UDC steering committee suggests the following perspectives on the >conference topic, "Media, Democracy and the Public Sphere": the mass >media are flourishing today; a democratic public sphere is not. What, >then, are the possibilities of resolving the conflicts between a "mass" >media and a "democratic" public sphere? > >Facets of this question which participants may wish to address include >the concept of "the public interest"; the role of public media systems >in the creation of a democratic public sphere; the role of media policy >in helping or hindering democracy; the role of media in >(trans)national"democratization" processes; the dissemination of radical >claims through alternative, community and mainstream media; the ways in >which the everyday media practices of the public help or hinder the >creation of a democratic public sphere; the education of media workers >in the interest of democracy; and the utilization of information >technolgies for and against democracy. > >The host institution is arranging affordable conference housing on the >campus of the University of San Francisco, which, however, requires >timely registration. Please send in your proposal early to faciliate >rapid notification of acceptances in early March! The San Francisco >host committee is also scheduling plenary sessions with featured >speakers and joint evening outings into the city. This promises to be >an very engaged and productive gathering of international media >activists, practitioners, theorists and historians. Please contact Prof. >Barker-Plummer, conference chair, with any questions: > barkerplum at usfca.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | All politicians should ski.| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From sheriff at speakeasy.org Sat Jan 17 11:00:50 1998 From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:00:50 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. >Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a >surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's >technology, but it's a slow process. I don't think it's that far away. Decades (or at least years) ago, the US Navy developed a laser so focused and controlled it could write messages on one face of a cube of salt. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMDw1ABMw4+NR29ZAQEZPwf+Nscubdhe+0M0SxQTwXqWz4u8Wv9YbxvI o1MV1MFxy5f2fCjiNglBYzW6VWMBg2Xz+WPsUOhcdiUMiF0UGyhgwg9dfIE5HXxR /8QWSlhQaio2Qt+uw5a18h74qjKca2jvWTKxYhgBU6p8B8W0FlGemvJVPe0lR1cD hKylwlqrAX9f/ofi9RZODEL/7RIHR2bgEqDrRoO29Lu9Wgyj+FoV1ZTBV0IOZnc0 O8y5xsjkzazZoC0dhwkUk2aTn5qQoSA6djhefUuCsmRlYg81NdWHa4375UgXw5ji XHNDFK7mNsAgIvE7StGkr2eCkaSLkep+R4OF5vADYvALvfA0H67yMw== =p4aS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sheriff at speakeasy.org Sat Jan 17 11:01:14 1998 From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:01:14 +0800 Subject: I'm going to count to ten... In-Reply-To: <199801162225.XAA28511@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >TruthMonger wrote: >> I also sent a letter a few weeks ago to Ted Kaczynski, offering to >>carry on his work while he is incarcerated. I got a letter back from >>him today, but I'm afraid to open it... > >TM, >Do us all a favor--open the letter! Yeah, and forward to the list the entire contents. I wanna see what this guy has to say. He'll prolly condem you as a fake for using the technology of the US Postal Service to contact him, or something. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMDw3wBMw4+NR29ZAQEPZQf9GxMXfbABz1r4quv9U+oJvMLjAL9PWS79 j3mCZIo7rR5yFPM3h/l89sseilpeNA9Rgnim1CaoS0WXmKBOsvy3xV8vXNdKxlTU s2Q2wLZFXF1sXxL8aDNgKzVVRBtR+Ayqd+j5yT5aGOloglXopaECxp44IH3GCMbg Jn2YwRNKOgHop3pwD7kAWqbisjH9EhBje1i7NpJ9FsgOqCKknDkI56O2GxW1ArVo cvlYdrWlXObwIQnZKxAtFyz6NHI57Aes5vvMeDIlVGBRsDxT/ziD08uB044vYCeS YVNgjL9rRpAg5H8/VmaDy56Y65ok9FSS74Lg0IWFCtSqRmXmgug/cQ== =F3Ts -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sheriff at speakeasy.org Sat Jan 17 11:02:19 1998 From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:02:19 +0800 Subject: I'm going to count to ten... etc In-Reply-To: <004b01bd22ce$7c76a6c0$ab8588d1@justice> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >And the solution to the speeding-ticket-giving >camera is, of course, camo paint jobs. But >you all knew that, right? I've allways found myself in a rather precarious position, when it comes to identifiable my car is. When I frequent a location (coffee house, restaurant) more than once, people suddenly recognize me because of the artwork on my car -- a mural of an oriental dragon painted on the driver's side, and a blue-n- black phoenix-in-progress on the passanger side. Obviously, this makes it easy for law enforcement officers to identify me after clocking me. I remem- ber my first (and last, as far as I'M concerned) police chase, when I was trying to catch up with a pal who I had to meet, who I spotted heading south while I was heading north on a particular superhighway. A cop flew past going north after I turned around, screamed through the midway, and flipped on his lights. I escaped, amazingly. I don't want to paint my car camo, because even though the murals were free (a la my adopted little brother), they took time and hold sentimental value (not to mention the fact that they turn a borning commuter hotrod into something I don't have to use the license plate to identify in a parking lot). Is there any other way to circumvent visual aquisition and identification of my vechicle? Besides a Klingon cloaking device, of course. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMDw6QBMw4+NR29ZAQHgnQf/fqbCxx6e/ajr8yjmi/ZLlipDcPhmauTh bgDk11a1t4qzDcRyw76QdugTbFyijnlVrbjyBw+1o2pBRkHohcMfhUieXBiMWGvN mfDunesShQfGZaCO5dXoih9SIEqQnsby4cxvVHX3DfvC/OZ7lM92FWSDjz7kYDPP nc3wG3gdZcBZnmx0LlYRZq0d9g8XZ/6pG+qFRl8UJY3tBoaTS4J7VHgKlFsVVROZ 247nNFtER3T/9U1pS4B+8eq/ebqvrjZHGdVJuCvl2k9u5oP1BgMMEJ/rnztVWSfX Inhzb4jk9r1ew0PUUafnn4U+MBc5dQh0PX1Ny32w8a65BAsedA/PWA== =urQZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Sun Jan 18 03:22:20 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:22:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! Sun Jan 18 '98 Message-ID: <19980118083145.2394.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> Welcome to Sunday's issue of Eureka! 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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > SACRAMENTO, California (AP) -- The judge in Theodore Kaczynski's > > trial declared him "lucid, calm" and free from signs of mental > > illness just hours before the Unabomb suspect tried to kill himself > > in his cell. > > > I don't get it. The guy is facing the death penalty, and now they're > trying to keep him alive. > > From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 17 12:29:46 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:29:46 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology Message-ID: <199801172022.VAA15751@basement.replay.com> > 1 coulomb/second = 6.24 x 10^18 atoms/sec. Assuming an atomic spacing > of roughly 10^-10 meters, at that rate it'd take you about 18.5 days to > construct one side of the cube with a thickness of 1mm, or almost four > months to build another cube. I'd guesstimate another 4 months to build > the electronics for it. And then you'd need some way to assemble the > pieces. ok, but how do you build a 10-cm cube inside of a 10-cm cube? :) From ravage at ssz.com Sat Jan 17 12:37:03 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:37:03 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology (fwd) Message-ID: <199801172105.PAA15527@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:22:59 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Nanotechnology > From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > > 1 coulomb/second = 6.24 x 10^18 atoms/sec. There are a couple of things incorrect with this. A Coulomb is 1N of e-/s, not atoms. N atoms is called a Mole. N, or Avagadro's Number, is 6.023E23 not 6.24E18 ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 17 12:56:23 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:56:23 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801162348.RAA12709@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980117121208.006bc254@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 05:48 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:29:34 -0800 >> From: Jonathan Wienke >> Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for >> coercion (fwd) > >[my entire previous post deleted...geesh] > >> Jim, there are > 2 parties in the matter being discussed: > >EXACTLY. That is why there is a potential for a MITM (requires at least >3 parties) attack. > >> My key is publicly available at the MIT keyserver; it has been since PGP >> 5.0 came out. > >So what? If Alice is being monitored for whatever reason and she requests >your key Mallet simply intercedes and inserts their own key. How is Alice >going to catch a clue? > >> key. It would be fairly difficult for any attacker to forge a signature >> with a false key; > >It isn't the source but the recipient that is under attack. > >[rest deleted] However, if Alice has had my key for 6 months, and has verified the signatures on 100 of my Cypherpunks posts, and my signature on GunzenBombs Pyro-Technologies latest checks out, she can be pretty confident that I actually signed it. On the other hand, if she didn't already have it, and got a fake key and document from Mallet, Alice would not be able to use the fake key to verify the signatures on my prior Cypherpunks posts. This ought to be a red-flagged clue that something is rotten in Denmark... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMEQlsJF0kXqpw3MEQJA8ACeMcERuFEawbrfZBqBUCVIiCSy5CcAn0VU nsPmpqLqwenGnvgCYjyg3pdQ =7VZu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:12:08 -0800 > From: Jonathan Wienke > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) > However, if Alice has had my key for 6 months, and has verified the > signatures on 100 of my Cypherpunks posts, and my signature on GunzenBombs > Pyro-Technologies latest checks out, she can be pretty confident that I > actually signed it. On the other hand, if she didn't already have it, and > got a fake key and document from Mallet, Alice would not be able to use the > fake key to verify the signatures on my prior Cypherpunks posts. This > ought to be a red-flagged clue that something is rotten in Denmark... That's all fine and dandy, however, we *are* talking about an eternity server architecture that delivers documents to an end user in a secure manner on demand with no mechanism, by design, to determine the original source. In this case there would by definition be *no* history to verify against. It is in fact this lack of history from the users perspective that causes the authenticity problem in the first place. Further, a point that seems to have been forgotten, we are talking about signed and not encrypted documents. Of course there are some similar problems if we do include the encryption of the data itself into the protocol. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 17 13:09:26 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:09:26 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801172105.WAA21255@basement.replay.com> The Sheriff wrote: > >I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. > >Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a > >surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's > >technology, but it's a slow process. > > I don't think it's that far away. Decades (or at least > years) ago, the US Navy developed a laser so focused and > controlled it could write messages on one face of a cube > of salt. You can also push atoms around with an AFM. It's just slow. But even if it did take a week or two to make something, it would still be practical. You'd probably have to wait a week to get something delivered by mail-order, so you might as well make it yourself. I wonder what Tim 'copyright is dead' May will think when anyone can make a Pentium clone in their back bedroom. :) From ghio at temp0183.myriad.ml.org Sat Jan 17 13:18:05 1998 From: ghio at temp0183.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:18:05 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801172022.VAA15751@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801172114.QAA08494@myriad> nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) wrote: > ok, but how do you build a 10-cm cube inside of a 10-cm cube? :) > Rotate the six faces of the cube so that the squares fit inside, and then unfold it when you're done. Possibly you could build two cubes at once, then have the cube break open and the two 'babies' come out. I think the toughest thing would be to maintain vacuum inside after you assemble the new cubes. Maybe you could launch them out of the atmosphere instead - It'd be a cheap way to build a lunar colony. :) From billp at nmol.com Sat Jan 17 15:22:01 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:22:01 +0800 Subject: REPLY to Mitchells RESPONSE. Message-ID: <34C13576.4F54@nmol.com> Saturday 1/17/98 3:37 PM John Young Attached is our REPLY to Mitchell�s RESPONSE. Morales will have it filed on Tuesday. Monday is MLK day. Morales will send a FILED stamped copy to you. Later bill UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO William H. Payne ) Arthur R. Morales ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) v ) CIV NO 97 0266 ) SC/DJS ) Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF ) Director, National Security Agency ) National Security Agency ) ) Defendant ) REPLY TO DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS 1 COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne [Payne] and Morales [Morales] [Plaintiffs], pro se litigants to exercise their rights guaranteed under the Constitution, Rules of Civil Procedure, and Local Civil Rules to respond to Defendant's MOTION filed on 98 JAN-5 within the 14 days allowed by local rule 7.3(b)(4). 2 US Attorney Mitchell [Mitchell] writes, Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the individuals had been served.2 Mitchell WAS SERVED PLAINTIFFS' FIRST SET OF REQUEST FOR ADMISSION TO NSA DIRECTOR KENNETH MINIHAN I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing request for admissions was mailed to Jan Elizabeth Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Monday November 3, 1997. Michell was not served with any other admissions since Mitchell is not representing others. Plaintiffs' served Defendant Minihan properly. And Minihan failed to respond to Minihan's admissions within the time allotted by law. 3 US Attorney Mitchell writes, As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action. Judges Svet and Campos willfully violated Plaintiffs' right to Discovery. And thereby earned criminal complaint affidavits filed with judge Scalia of the Supreme Court. 4 US Attorney Mitchell writes, In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and Memorandum 9, at 4.) Judge Svet and Campos attempt to deny Plaintiffs' right to Discovery, again, earned Svet and Campos criminal complaint affidavits. Plaintiffs exercise their right under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the Constitution to conduct Discovery WITHOUT LEAVE OF COURT! 5 US Attorney Mitchell writes, By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response, Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because the individuals have not responded to the Requests for Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until the Supreme Court takes action. Plaintiffs' have REPEATEDLY asked judge Svet and Campos to disqualify themselves from any rulings on this case because Campos and Svet do NOT obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Replace judges Svet and Campos because these judges have demonstrated, IN WRITING, they do not follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Plaintiffs' pleas are directed a replacement judge[s]. Not Svet and Campos. Therefore, Svet and Campos' failure to remove themselves does not stop the legal process. Mitchell cites NO law to support her claim that time constraints imposed under Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 are inapplicable as a result of Svet's and Campos' failure to remove themselves. 6 US Attorney Mitchell writes, Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. REPLACEMENT JUDGES of the Court should realize the outcome of the lawsuit has attained international interest as a result of the 1 bungled NSA spy sting on Iran 2 US government agencies NSA, NIST, and the FBI's attempt to control cryptography. Mitchell's DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS was posted on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome nsasuit8.htm USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion January 16, 1998 Importance of this posting is summed-up in the Toronto Sun, Jan. 11, 1998 US, Iran Need Each Other by Eric Margolis Iran launched a surprise charm offensive last week, throwing Washington into serious confusion. In a lengthy interview on CNN, Iran's new president, Mohammad Khatami, skillfully analyzed the bitter relations between the two nations and cautiously extended an olive branch to Washington, calling for an end to their 19-year cold war. Khatami's diplomatic ju-jitsu flummoxed the Clinton administration, which was busy trying to rally international support against Tehran - and to overthrow Iran's elected government. Both capitals are split over the question of relations. In Washington, the military establishment and conservative Republicans have inflated Iran into a bogeyman to justify military budgets and keep U.S. forces in the Mideast. ... America incited Iraq to invade Iran in 1980. They did this to crush the Islamic revolution, then provided massive war aid to Saddam Hussein. Half a million Iranians died. The US got caught involved in genocide. Using high tech. This is one subject of this lawsuit. Albuquerque Journal Tuesday 1/13/98 carried the editorial. Khatami Move Is Profile in Courage Richard Reeves Syndicated Columnist LOS ANGELES - If an American leader had done what Iranian President Mohammed Khatami did last Wednesday, it would have been hailed as a profile in courage. ... Miscalculation! We armed and pampered Saddam Hussein in the hope that Iraq would destroy Iran. Now that's policy and behavior to think about. Here is something to think about: If Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had pursued any kind of sensible policy toward Cuba and Fidel Castro - opposed to the policy of trying to assassinate him - there never would have been a Cuban missile crisis. I think Iranians have financed and encouraged terrorism against the interests of the United States and Israel. I would not be surprised at all if something like proof emerges soon, perhaps anonymously, from the CIA and other government agencies, where many officials have built their careers on sanctioning and isolating Iran, to try to straighten the backbones of the president and people of the United States. If they succeed, America fails. What would be more effective in closing down Iranian terrorism? More hostility, sanctions and charges? Or beginning the process toward more normal relations with a country positioned and born to be great? ... Clearly genocide fits into Now that's policy and behavior to think about. The wired world is watching what this Court, hopefully minus judges Svet and Campos, will do. What is there to be? A series of possibly unfortunate events? Or does this Court order release the lawfully requested documents to help settle this American tragedy? WHEREFORE. 7 Have replacement judges of this Court DENY Mitchell's Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied. for reason that Mitchell's request to subvert both the Discovery processes and its time limits have no basis in law. And appears to plead to judges who do not obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 9 IMMEDIATELY ORDER Defendant to release the requested documents in the interest of national safety so that this matter can be settled. Aggrieved victims of US genocide are reading these pleadings. Respectfully submitted, _________________________ William H. Payne 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 _________________________ Arthur R. Morales 1024 Los Arboles NW Albuquerque, NM 87107 Pro se litigants CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director, National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 and hand delivered to John J. Kelly, US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Tuesday January 20, 1997. 5 From rdl at mit.edu Sat Jan 17 16:15:05 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:15:05 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: (Jim Choate) writes: > > That's all fine and dandy, however, we *are* talking about an eternity server > architecture that delivers documents to an end user in a secure manner on > demand with no mechanism, by design, to determine the original source. In > this case there would by definition be *no* history to verify against. > > It is in fact this lack of history from the users perspective that causes > the authenticity problem in the first place. Further, a point that seems > to have been forgotten, we are talking about signed and not encrypted > documents. Of course there are some similar problems if we do include the > encryption of the data itself into the protocol. Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is what they want, be it PGP signed by the pope, a working cryptosystem, or whatever. In this sense, it's no different than random email or whatever as an untrusted transport medium. The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. I assume the following: * a potentially corrupted author (give rdl $100 000 and he'll probably make a minor modification which has no apparent mal effects, give him $100 000 000 and he'll be a hired gun). The author is optionally anonymous. * A community of publically-known cypherpunks and code-verifiers, not all of which are corrupted, but some of which may be. * A random user who has the public keys of at least (thresh) number of the cypherpunks, optionally the key of the author of the document/product before the system becomes questionable, perhaps by looking in the NY Times for 1 Jan 1999 which has a full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous with the PGP public keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. * The piece of code to be verified is bloody long, that is, longer than any one cypherpunk can afford to verify alone (shooting practice, installing the minefields and poison gas sprinkler system, etc. take lots of time) * The user can tell by visual inspection that a small compilation system does what they want it to do, and can understand basic logic enough to tell what signatures imply. Then: 1) The author releases the code into the network in an optionally anonymous way. There is no reason to trust the code -- even if it is signed with rdl's eternity dds signing key, no one has any reason to believe that it isn't an NSA front, since rdl is assumed to be corrupt, signing anything put in front of him (as long as sufficient money is put there too) 2) The user wants to run the code, because it's Just That Cool. 3) No one can verify the entire code. So, Cypherpunks begin signing small sections of the code with their own previously-established key. Their keys are established as their reputation is established on the list, or perhaps by personally meeting these people, in the traditional PGP web of trust scheme. There is no central Cypherpunks Registry, just a decentralized mesh. 4) The user executes the compilation script. This script looks at the pgp signatures, sees which ones it can verify from keys it already has accepted as valid by (3), and, if there are verified good keys from at least the minimum number of people in every critical section of the code, it is added to the compile-me-source-tree. If there are enough people for every critical section (the user defines all aspects of this), the source tree is set up for compilation, and compilation can proceed. The user knows that every piece of the code in the system has been verified to their standards -- even if the author of the code is an evil NSA sleeper agent, it has gotten by independent review by at least a user-defined-number of people per section. I fail to see how the specifics of Eternity are relevant -- it's just basically a PGP web of trust issue. The transport is irrelevant -- it's untrusted code until it's been verified by people the user trusts. Implementing a keyserver in Eternity has the same issues -- you still need to deal with the PGP web of trust issues. Signing my secret alias key with my own key as the only signature and uploading it to eternity would fail to provide privacy, just as it would if I posted it anonymously to the mailing list. One working system is the buildup of "reputation capital" by an identity using the key. Again, this is entirely irrelevant to the Eternity server -- verifying document authenticity is better handled at the client side. Eternity should be set up so as long as your ecash is good, your document is stored -- if I want to store my document under the name "disney's greatest hits" when it really contains necrophilic kiddie-porn and microsoft warez, that's my business. The client software for interacting with Eternity, however, might do well to have a good document authentication interface. And perhaps third-party authentication services could pop up, willing to sign documents that just meet gross criteria for valid indexing. You could then download the key for that service somehow, then use the service happily. The abstract issue has been beaten to death on cypherpunks many times. I just assert that Eternity is no different from "the Net", "the Web", "remailer networks", "Blacknet", etc. in issues of document verification and anonymous reputation capital. -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From ravage at ssz.com Sat Jan 17 16:55:27 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:55:27 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801180123.TAA16226@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 17 Jan 1998 19:07:10 -0500 > Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is > what they want > The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. How are these fundamently different? Assume for a moment that as a user of an eternity server the source is the data I want. > I assume the following: > * a potentially corrupted author (give rdl $100 000 and he'll probably > make a minor modification which has no apparent mal effects, give him > $100 000 000 and he'll be a hired gun). The author is optionally > anonymous. The point I am making is that whether the author is corrupt or not is irrelevant. > * A community of publically-known cypherpunks and code-verifiers, > not all of which are corrupted, but some of which may be. Ok. > * A random user who has the public keys of at least (thresh) number of the > cypherpunks, optionally the key of the author of the document/product before > the system becomes questionable, perhaps by looking in the NY Times > for 1 Jan 1999 which has a full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous > with the PGP public keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. Pretty expensive and rather unrealistic I suspect. Where does this random user come from? What is '(thresh)'? What good would an anonymous key signature provide? You can't verify it within the web of trust model, that would imply the author wasn't anonymous which takes us back to the 'friends' attack. How do we know that some number of these cypherpunks aren't turned? Are you proposing that the user test all 100 of the signatures? Which realisticaly is the only way to verify any given one of them. Not very many people will go to that extreme simply for grins and giggles. > * The piece of code to be verified is bloody long, that is, longer than > any one cypherpunk can afford to verify alone (shooting practice, > installing the minefields and poison gas sprinkler system, etc. take > lots of time) The standard is programs over ~10k lines is not comprehensible by a single individual on a line by line basis. > * The user can tell by visual inspection that a small compilation > system does what they want it to do, and can understand basic logic > enough to tell what signatures imply. 'small compilation system' of what? What who wants it to do? The author? Mallet? The end user? > Then: > 1) The author releases the code into the network in an optionally > anonymous way. There is no reason to trust the code -- even if it > is signed with rdl's eternity dds signing key, no one has any reason > to believe that it isn't an NSA front, since rdl is assumed to be > corrupt, signing anything put in front of him (as long as sufficient > money is put there too) It isn't the key of the author or the eternity server that is under attack by Mallet. It is the security of the individual user who is under assault. > 2) The user wants to run the code, because it's Just That Cool. We're talking here about users who want to get data that is illegal or otherwise incriminating or dangerous to one group or another. In particular let's consider the situation of a Lebanese freedom fighter in Isreal or perhaps a 'Free Burma' revolutionary in China. > 3) No one can verify the entire code. So, Cypherpunks begin signing > small sections of the code with their own previously-established key. > Their keys are established as their reputation is established on > the list, or perhaps by personally meeting these people, in the > traditional PGP web of trust scheme. There is no central Cypherpunks > Registry, just a decentralized mesh. Which doesn't effect the ability of Mallet to resign that code at the users end in order to break the users local security. > 4) The user executes the compilation script. [material describing script verification deleted] Mallet can re-write said script, especialy with the sorts of latency that the Eternity Server forces on the end user, such that it is consistent with the bogus keys the end-user gets. It is simply much easier to write scripts in a day than say 10 minutes. > I fail to see how the specifics of Eternity are relevant -- it's > just basically a PGP web of trust issue. The transport is irrelevant -- > it's untrusted code until it's been verified by people the user > trusts. The end user may not have people available to trust is the point. The reason the transport mechanism is relevant is that it is much easier to spoof a verification script if the user is not going to be surprised with 24 hour turn around on requests, whereas a responce time measured in minutes lessens the window of opportunity to Mallet significantly. It may come as a surprise to you and others but not everyone in the world can pick up a phone and call a 100 people all over the world and not raise some suspicion. > Implementing a keyserver in Eternity has the same issues While it is perfectly permissible to design Eternity or any data haven with inherent key servers, I believe it is a bad idea from a design perspective because it makes the code even larger, decreases the potential for monetary motives for indipendant key servers to appear, and if the server is compromised then the key server is also. It is more expensive if Mallet can be forced to deal with two indipendenat operators then a single monolithic operator. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 17 20:01:53 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:01:53 +0800 Subject: Kaczynski attempts suicide Message-ID: <199801180345.EAA18335@basement.replay.com> >I don't get it. The guy is facing the death penalty, and now they're >trying to keep him alive. It's typical government arrogance. They can kill but nobody else can. And they demand that when they consider murdering somebody that the target not murder himself. Stupidity. From Important.News at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 12:05:05 1998 From: Important.News at hotmail.com (Important.News at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:05:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hi :-) Message-ID: <199801182005.GAA32490@startide.odyssey.com.au> "I finally found the secrets I've been looking for. Your manual tells all and has given me the tools I need to succeed, finally a genuine Internet insider tells all! If you're doing business on the web or have ever wanted to, this is a must have. You're the best, I'm making your manual into my Internet Bible! Thanks a million!" Best Regards, (satisfied customer) Florida WOW!, What a value your program is! Just the secrets on email was worth the price alone, not to mention all the other valuable things you included. I have already put up some ads and I eagerly anticipate positive results. 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From wabe at smart.net Sat Jan 17 23:20:55 1998 From: wabe at smart.net (wabe) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:20:55 +0800 Subject: uh, Message-ID: <004601bd23fa$76d1d0a0$a78588d1@justice> ��� --What is that weird lawsuit all about wheresome director of the NSA is getting sued forsomething?� Does anyone know?-wabe � ��� --digsig�������� ���� EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H���� L4ctAUj8gI6C830BTXaeFrhHME7aCeT3ev4HKbeT���� 4HICjjQYriAdlICrERT+zrSEtB1bkK+b6iRoC6a0y � � From TKettle at juno.com Sun Jan 18 17:03:02 1998 From: TKettle at juno.com (TKettle at juno.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:03:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: College Financing Message-ID: <> To whomever it may concern: I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works. His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives. Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below. Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with questions may reach me at Tkettle at Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience. Sincerely, Thomas Kenneth Wootten 24 Victoria Drive South Burlington, VT 05403 From TKettle at juno.com Sun Jan 18 17:03:02 1998 From: TKettle at juno.com (TKettle at juno.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:03:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: College Financing Message-ID: <> To whomever it may concern: I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works. His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives. Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below. Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with questions may reach me at Tkettle at Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience. Sincerely, Thomas Kenneth Wootten 24 Victoria Drive South Burlington, VT 05403 From kping at nym.alias.net Sun Jan 18 01:42:03 1998 From: kping at nym.alias.net (Kay Ping) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:42:03 +0800 Subject: Eternity - an alternative aproach (take 2) Message-ID: <19980118093226.22373.qmail@nym.alias.net> "Romeo, she is a female Homo Sapiens, not a full rotation of the Earth during the season when the incident solar radioation is at a higher angle" "Yes, I know that. It was just a metaphore." I got several comments about my posting, all of them about the possibility of detecting the location of radio transmitters or receivers. You just didn't get it, did you? I was using radio as a METAPHORE for the use of broadcast to provide anonymity to receivers and packets with false source addresses for the anonymity of transmitters. You can read the original posting at http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/current/0107.html ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping at nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 From TKettle at juno.com Sun Jan 18 20:51:04 1998 From: TKettle at juno.com (TKettle at juno.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:51:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: College Financing Message-ID: <> To whomever it may concern: I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works. His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives. Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below. Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with questions may reach me at Tkettle at Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience. Sincerely, Thomas Kenneth Wootten 24 Victoria Drive South Burlington, VT 05403 From TKettle at juno.com Sun Jan 18 20:51:04 1998 From: TKettle at juno.com (TKettle at juno.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:51:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: College Financing Message-ID: <> To whomever it may concern: I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works. His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives. Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below. Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with questions may reach me at Tkettle at Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience. Sincerely, Thomas Kenneth Wootten 24 Victoria Drive South Burlington, VT 05403 From gnu at toad.com Sun Jan 18 21:11:48 1998 From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:11:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Unofficial transcript of Bernstein hearing published Message-ID: <199801190451.UAA07568@toad.com> EFF has published an unofficial transcript of the hearing in front of three judges at the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on December 8. The hearing discussed whether the export controls on cryptography are an unconstitutional prior restraint on publication. See http://www.eff.org/pub/Privacy/ITAR_export/Bernstein_case/Legal/ There is no news on the judges' decision from that hearing. John Gilmore Electronic Frontier Foundation From rdl at mit.edu Sun Jan 18 06:37:08 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:37:08 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <199801181433.JAA13137@the-great-machine.mit.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Since documents placed on eternity by specification last forever (assuming, > of course, that > eternity will too) and assuming that computational power and cryptanalysis > will always > get better (say for arguments sake that moore's law continues to be held) - > doesn't that > mean that it will be feasible (in time) to break all eternity documents? :) Documents by specification last only as long as someone is willing to pay to keep them up. This is not necessarily forever. Once your DBC escrow "account" runs out, the data is worthless -- someone could then choose to store it on their own, and potentially charge others for this in a recursive model, but there is no reason why a piece of data must remain in Eternity forever if no one cares enough about it to pay to have it stored. > > Of course "in time" may very well be a very long (or astronomical) time, > but dependent on the crypto > used who knows what rate "feasible" breaking of a particular algorithm > might progress at, say > in d(key length)/d(year)? Can we assume that using Moore's law this is at > least 1 bit every > 18 months for symmetric crypto? Perhaps we might see this relationship > through the RSA challenges > over time. I am designing Eternity DDS with IDEA/3DES/Blowfish level private-key crypto and an equivalent level of DH/RSA public key crypto. These will be strong (provided back door attacks, fundamental breakthroughs in cryptography, etc. are not made...a bet I'm forced to make, even though I don't like it) well into the future. How far? I think unless Quantum Cryptanalysis becomes a reality, the underlying hard problems will not be solved through anything but a fundamental change in mathematics. As Prof. Micali said, "Gauss (Karl Friedrich Gauss, the reknowned mathematician/physicist/general smart guy) worked on these problems. The test of whether a problem is sufficiently hard to be a basis for a cryptosystem is if Gauss tried to solve it and failed." or something similar. > > [If Wiener's $1m DES machine in '93 took 7 hours, in today's technology $1m > in 1998 dollars should > be able to do this in less than 100 minutes, shouldn't it?] I don't think anyone would argue that 56bit is secure enough for anything but ephermeal channel authentication. I'd make the same argument for 64bit -- if you had a purpose-built machine with an intelligent key distribution system, a well nigh unlimited budget (read: US Military), and PE's which contained either ultrahigh performance GaAs logic or massively parallel on a single chip silicon logic, you could probably brute force a 64bit algorithm. Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before the heat death of the universe. > > Since documents cannot be retracted or re-encrypted you really have to > assume that someday they > will be broken. This really turns the notion of what crypto to use for > encrypting eternity documents > into an upfront question of "how long do I want this information to be > secure?". 20 years? 50 years? > 100 years? > > matt Actually, Eternity is no different than emailing a file, given a SIGINT capability at the attacker which allows all internet traffic to be monitored. If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for 50 years, then attack it (even more amusingly, they could simply post it to Eternity themselves, encrypted with their own key :), a true turn about). If you do not postulate that level of signals collection capability on the part of the attacker, yeah, Eternity is a bit different than email. But I think that would be an unreasonable model of the attacker. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNMISuKwefxtEUY69AQFB1Qf9GWDn6bwhWyJcDY0Liypo21ntpH5yzORu RXwkPSI8pbmqhVZAVGXC1WbcqY0pYn7vPRFq5AKszFsjpTOOYiHwsugmVKjrxVww GRKSBqn308aAjMogNtPwEfohJrQxOED/Hy7ykV6gHV76pUFoMazQ4OdUL2iM1hLF cCMzwtpfJM5eWvyLeQcQq307998epJ9hF1e3Sn4v6ZKEPIlr0yqr5tvM7/XWxC2s 6t82EUPmOZIbn75QQqLBIFK5MlOLuvalFr0xR3u7fYltOczAMC23hx7Tjk65e9a4 6XSeEXyMp2j2GWqcE5lUZp4OnewZvSoFhEj0rDo5PEN9ce0mJEKMow== =7IBY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 06:40:04 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:40:04 +0800 Subject: uh, In-Reply-To: <004601bd23fa$76d1d0a0$a78588d1@justice> Message-ID: <199801181249.MAA00208@server.eternity.org> Wabe writes: > What is that weird lawsuit all about where > some director of the NSA is getting sued for > something? Does anyone know? Bill Payne used to work for one of the US national labs, he did some work funded by NSA at that lab. He considered that the NSA were making incompetent cryptographic decisions endangering national security. He's suing them over their attempts to silence his criticisms by working behind the scenes to deprive him of research funding. Bill will have to provide a better summary himself, as the above is from memory, and I wasn't paying that much attention, and the above could be garbage. The practice of suing the director of NSA "DIRNSA" in such suits involving disputes with NSA is common practice... Dan Bernstein's case pursued by EFF, John Gilmore etc, and Peter Junger's case (both arguing that the ITAR/EARs are unconstitutional) involved suing the NSA, DIRNSA and a list of other misc. government officials. Adam btw. your netscape set up is broken... it includes an html version of your post below the ascii version. There is a setting somewhere were you have a choice to send ascii, or html or both. You clearly have this set to both. > ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BD23B7.67DD8500 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > [...] From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 06:40:22 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:40:22 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <199801181320.NAA00296@server.eternity.org> [horrible line wraps btw. 100 chars to the line! I reformatted.] Matt Barrie writes: > Since documents cannot be retracted or re-encrypted you really have > to assume that someday they will be broken. This really turns the > notion of what crypto to use for encrypting eternity documents into > an upfront question of "how long do I want this information to be > secure?". 20 years? 50 years? 100 years? There are 3 distinct threats. 1. communications crypto used by the author in submitting the document is broken 2. the eternity architecture contains encrypted documents to frustrate attempts to locate documents, and to hide the contents of documents from individual servers 3. communications crypto used to request and deliver documents is broken thus revealing the readers identity For threat 1. the attacker needs archives of old communications which could potentially be eternity submissions. (I say potentially because they could be steganographically encoded). It is probably reasonable to assume that the NSA has a full historic archive of USENET. Also it is probably reasonable to assume they have a historic archive of all inter remailer traffic. For threat 2. it seems feasible to upgrade this security over time, in that documents could be super encrypted with newer ciphers when vulnerabilities are found in older ciphers. No protection for historic access requests, but at least we can adapt to protect new requests. For threat 3. again newer ciphers can be used as attacks are found. So it is useful to design upgrade paths for ciphers into the protocols where possible. Other approaches we could take are to use very conservative cipher key sizes and protocols combining multiple ciphers in ways which gives us the security of the best of the ciphers. For example: R = random, C = 5DES( R ) || blowfish-484( M xor R ) Where 5DES is say E-D-E-D-E with 5 independent DES keys. Constructs to combine in strong ways hash functions, macs, symmetric and asymmetric ciphers would be useful. Is there much research in this area? Adam From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 07:11:23 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:11:23 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801181540.JAA17053@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:33:30 EST > From: Ryan Lackey > Documents by specification last only as long as someone is willing to pay > to keep them up. This is not necessarily forever. Admiral Hopper used to give a talk about the worth of data and she had a very nice chart that would demonstrate the worth of data over time. Initialy it is worth a lot because it is hard to reproduce, obtain, or distribute. As time goes on it becomes less and less important. In her particular context it was related to the economic decision of when to move data offline in large database applications. > Once your DBC escrow > "account" runs out, the data is worthless That's a jump of logic. The data may infact be quite popular even though you don't offer it anymore (might even do this in order to increase its worth, say some sort of insider trader newsletter). It's probably not in the best interest of the data haven model to speculate on exactly why a particular source decides to quit sourcing. > remain in Eternity forever if no one cares enough about it to pay to > have it stored. Then again, if it was really important I might intentionaly want to attack the ability to provide long-term income. A better model might be to charge for the access and let the actual submission be no charge. A portion of the retrieval charge could then be piped back to the source. Consider the case of say nuclear or biological information for a weapon. That sort of data would be accessed only infrequently (unless you're giving something this expensive to obtain and verify away - a d-h operator error, no.) but should be quite expensive to retrieve. > If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could > just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for > 50 years, More realisticaly they would have somebody just add it to a batch job and let the spare cycles of the machines crank away at it. Or perhaps set up a key challenge and get people all over the world to work on it in their spare cycles. Who knows, perhaps the source of the data woudl be intriqued enough to provide spare cycles unknowingly. > If you do not postulate that level of signals collection capability on the It's not just their sig-int capability but their complete processing resource capability that must be considered as well as their psychological motivation. Granted, all of these are extremely difficult to measure let alone verify. Perhaps a little paranoia might be a good thing. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From billp at nmol.com Sun Jan 18 07:35:29 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:35:29 +0800 Subject: diplomacy Message-ID: <34C21266.142B@nmol.com> I sure hope the following was diplomatic enough. NSA exhibited NO SENSE OF HUMOR when I pointed out 'deficiencies' in its crypto algorithm work. But, too, the agrieve Islamic fundamentalists may not have too good senses of humor. But with that experience, my sensitivities are hightened. Later, guys. Back to POSTCARD COMMUNICATIONS! Sunday 1/18/98 6:24 AM Jim Allen Thanks for the call on Friday night. You said that there might be a problem in the way the interrupts were turned on. I told you I would give this some thought. Here is the routine to turn on the interrupts ;* Call DasIntOn(IoPointer&, ErrorFlag&, SystemState&, IoData&(0, 0), ;* IoParm&(0, 0), LgradThres) from Visual Basic. DasIntOn PROTO FAR, VBIoPointer:dword, VBErrorFlag:dword, VBSystemState:dword, VBIoData:dword, VBIoParm:dword, VBLGradThres:dword DasIntOn PROC FAR EXPORT, VBIoPointer:dword, VBErrorFlag:dword, VBSystemState:dword, VBIoData:dword, VBIoParm:dword, VBLGradThres:dword Prolog ;* Stage 1 Get addresses of IOPointer, ErrorFlag, SystemState, ;* IoData, IoParm, LGradThres which point back into VB static array. mov eax, VBIoPointer ; get VB IoPointer address mov IoPointer, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBErrorFlag ; get VB ErrorFlag address mov ErrorFlag, eax ; mov it to asm mov eax, VBSystemState ; get VB SystemState address mov SystemState, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBIoData ; get VB IoData address mov IoData, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBIoParm ; get VB IoParm address mov IoParm, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBLGradThres ; get VB LGradThres address mov LGradThres, eax ; move it to asm ;* Stage 2 zero the interrupt counter and system state mov IntCount, 0 mov LocalSysState, 0 ;* Stage 3 install dummy interrupt vector call SetDummyIntVector ; Set dummy IrqLevel interrupt ;* Stage 4 make sure interrupt is masked on the das board call DisableDasInt ;* Stage 5 Set up Irq level in bits 4-6 of register 9 call SetDasIrqLevel ;* Stage 6 set up counter 0 with number of rows AND enable ;* hardware trigger. This is done in Counter0SetUp. call Counter0SetUp ;* Stage 7 Enable interrupt on 8259a call EnableIrqMask ;* Stage 8 Set Irq 5 highest prority in 8259a - didn't seem to ;* make any difference in performance ; call Irg5HighestPriority ;* Stage 9 Burst length set-up call EnableDasBurstMode ;* Stage 10 - clear fifo call InitDasFifo ; read and discard 256 fifo words ;* Stage 11 Set application interrupt vector call SetDasIntVector ; Set IrqLevel interrupt vector ;* Stage 12 Set LocalIop to DataRows - 1. MOV ax, DataRows - 1 ; set LocalIop = DataRows mov LocalIop, ax ; les bx, IoPointer ; get address IoPointer% mov es:[bx], ax ; also set VB IoPointer% = 0 ;* Stage 13 Set hardware trigger call SetHardwareTrigger ;* Stage 14 Clear flip-flop on Pin 25 call ClearDasPin25 ;* Stage 15 Enable interrupt on das board call EnableDasInt Epilog ret 24 DasIntOn ENDP This got a bit complicated. The ComputerBoard clone of the Keithly-Metrabyte a/d converter powers-up in an UNKNOWN state. Or at least partially UNKNOWN. One of the random states includes triggering spurious interrupt. So a dummy handler had to be inserted to possibly field bad data. The attempt was made to interface directly to hardware without a microcontoller buffer was partially successful. Sampling at the 1 Khz rate revealed that Windows occasionally �did its own thing� as a result of a task switch and, therfore, interrupts were missed. To detect when this happened we modified the ComputerBoards das 1400 board so that a hardware count of interrupts received could be compared to the software count. Since the a/d values were buffered a FIFO, the FAST Pentium could catch up. But this caused the interrupt handler to increase in size from about 1 K lines, including white space and comments, to 2 K lines. Naturally we wish to be in the problem solving, as opposed to problem creating, or assignation of blame. I think we have to consider all possible problem sources. I am looking at the AC POWER INTERFACE LS SOV Schematic dated 11-8-96. I see that the power to the analog and digital cards was run via a serial port db 25 cable and connector. Pin assignment are Pin Function 1 -15 G 2 +15 GS 3 +5 G 4 +15 G 5 5 GS 6 tied to pin 7 7 +15S 8 15 S 9 5 10 tied to pin 10 11 +15 12 tied to pin 11 13 15 S 14 tied to pin 1 15 +5 GS 16 tied to pin 3 17 nc 18 tied to pin 5 19 +24 ground 20 tied to pin 19 21 +5 S 22 tied to pin 9 23 tied to pin 22 24 +24 volts 25 tied to pin 24 The +24 volts runs to solenoids. The remaining power runs to both digital and analog Ics. While some are left wondering why engineers had not thought of running analog, digital and solenoid power down an inexpensive 24 pin PC serial port cable before, perhaps, we might all guess, other engineers lack sufficient innovative audacity. One engineer opined last summer, when I was working in the shop on the digital FX, that the PC Data System boards may have to be redesigned. Let�s hope that such a major revision is not required. Naturally, me being a TOTAL CONSERVATIVE [as evidenced by Morales and my genocide court filing], I plan to physically separate the analog and digital IC s on the digital FX. And I am thinking about on-board power regulation to keep the 80c32, analog, and digital chips super-happy. In the field, of course. I will leave in several hours. In my grey rabbit. Air travel safety worries me more now. Especially after publication of last book. Just in case, I will bring my passport. The thought of two machines located 180 miles NW of Edmonton not working well is, of course, chilling. I sure glad the 8051 version of PC Data System is working fairly well. And is MAKING money for Metriguard. See you on Tuesday, Allah willing. Later bill Title: Payne/Morales v. NSA -- Defendant's Response to Motion for Summary Judgment 16 January 1998 Source: William H. Payne See related files: http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm � � � � � � � � � � � � � �� � � � �� � � � � �� U.S. Department of Justice United States Attorney District of New Mexico __________________________________________________________ Post Office Box 607 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103 505/766-3341 505/766-2868 FAX 505/766-8517 January 5, 1998 W.H. Payne P.O. Box 14838 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87191 Re: Payne & Morales v. Minihan USDC NM CIV 97-0266 SC/DJS Dear Mr. Payne: Enclosed is a court-endorsed copy of Defendant's Response to Plaintiffs' Motion for Summary Judgment Based on Evidence from Admissions. Sincerely, JOHN J. KELLY United States Attorney [Signature] JAN ELIZABETH MITCHELL Assistant U. S. Attorney JEM/yh Enclosure cc/enc: Arthur R. Morales [Stamp] FILED United States District Court District of New Mexico 98 JAN -5 PM 3:46 Robert M. Marsh District Clerk IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO WILLIAM H. PAYNE ) ARTHUR R. MORALES ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) CIVIL NO. 97-026 SC/DJS ) LT GEN KENNETH A. MINIHAN ) USAF Director, National Security ) Agency, ) ) Defendant. DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS Defendant Minihan responds to Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment Based On Evidence From Admissions1 as follows: 1. Commencing in October, 1997, Plaintiffs served numerous sets of Requests for Admissions on various employees of the National Security Agency and on current and past employees of the Sandia National Laboratory. 2. Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the individuals had been served.2 ____________________ 1 It should be noted that the instant Motion for Summary Judgment constitutes Plaintiffs' second motion for summary judgment. Plaintiffs filed an initial Motion for Summary Judgment on June 4, 1997 to which Defendant responded on June 19, 1997, and Plaintiffs filed a Reply on July 1, 1997. Said initial Motion for Summary Judgment has not been ruled upon. In addition, Defendant filed a Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff Arthur R. Morales on September 23, 1997, and a Motion seeking dismissal of Plaintiff William Payne's Freedom of Information Act action on October 3, 1997. All briefing by all parties has been completed on those Motions. 2 On October 13, 1997, Plaintiffs mailed a First Set of Admissions to Kenneth Minihan. However, not until November 3, 1997, did Plaintiffs mail a copy of said First Set of Request for 3. Upon becoming aware that Plaintiffs had served Requests for Admissions on a number of individuals, on October 23, 1997, Counsel for Defendant filed a Motion and Memorandum To Strike Any And All Of Plaintiffs' First Set of Requests For Admissions To Various Employees Of The National Security Agency And To Various Employees Of Sandia National Laboratory, (hereinafter "Motion and Memorandum.") 4. As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action. 5. In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and Memorandum � 9, at 4.) 6. In the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant requested that this Court strike any and all "First Set of Request for Admission" propounded by Plaintiffs. (Motion and Memorandum, at 5.) 7. Plaintiffs responded to the Motion and Memorandum on November 5, 1997, specifically seeking that this Court "take no action in this case until Supreme court takes action on writs on ____________________ Admissions to Counsel for Defendant. Counsel for Defendant was not provided with copies of any other Requests for Admissions sent to employees of NSA or employees of the Sandia National Laboratory. 2 mandamus, prohibition, and criminal complaint affidavits filed against judges Svet and Campos and US Attorney Mitchell." (Plaintiffs' Response to Motion And Memorandum To Strike Any And All Of Plaintiffs' First Set Of Request For Admissions To Various Employees Of The National Security Agency And To Various Employees Of Sandia National Laboratories, � 11, at 10.) 8. To date, no order has been issued by this Court on the matters raised in the Motion and Memorandum, nor has any other court issued any orders concerning Plaintiffs' cause of action and various complaints. 9. By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response, Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because the individuals have not responded to the Requests for Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until the Supreme Court takes action. ____________________ 3 Despite the fact that Defendant's employees and other individuals are not required to respond to the Requests for Admissions based upon the outstanding pleadings which have yet to be ruled on by this Court, Plaintiffs characterize that all admissions are admitted and then publish those admissions on the Internet. 3 10. Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 11. Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied. Respectfully submitted, JOHN J. KELLY United States Attorney [Signature] JAN ELIZABETH MITCHELL Assistant U.S. Attorney P.O. Box 607 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103 (505) 766-3341 I HEREBY CERTIFY that a true copy of the foregoing pleading was mailed to PRO SE PLAINTIFFS, this 5th day of January, 1998. [Signature] JAN ELIZABETH MITCHELL Assistant U. S. Attorney 4 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO William H. Payne ) Arthur R. Morales ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) v ) CIV NO 97 0266 ) SC/DJS ) Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF ) Director, National Security Agency ) National Security Agency ) ) Defendant ) REPLY TO DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS 1 COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne [Payne] and Morales [Morales] [Plaintiffs], pro se litigants to exercise their rights guaranteed under the Constitution, Rules of Civil Procedure, and Local Civil Rules to respond to Defendant's MOTION filed on 98 JAN-5 within the 14 days allowed by local rule 7.3(b)(4). 2 US Attorney Mitchell [Mitchell] writes, Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the individuals had been served.2 Mitchell WAS SERVED PLAINTIFFS' FIRST SET OF REQUEST FOR ADMISSION TO NSA DIRECTOR KENNETH MINIHAN I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing request for admissions was mailed to Jan Elizabeth Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Monday November 3, 1997. Michell was not served with any other admissions since Mitchell is not representing others. Plaintiffs' served Defendant Minihan properly. And Minihan failed to respond to Minihan's admissions within the time allotted by law. 3 US Attorney Mitchell writes, As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action. Judges Svet and Campos willfully violated Plaintiffs' right to Discovery. And thereby earned criminal complaint affidavits filed with judge Scalia of the Supreme Court. 4 US Attorney Mitchell writes, In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and Memorandum 9, at 4.) Judge Svet and Campos attempt to deny Plaintiffs' right to Discovery, again, earned Svet and Campos criminal complaint affidavits. Plaintiffs exercise their right under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the Constitution to conduct Discovery WITHOUT LEAVE OF COURT! 5 US Attorney Mitchell writes, By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response, Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because the individuals have not responded to the Requests for Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until the Supreme Court takes action. Plaintiffs' have REPEATEDLY asked judge Svet and Campos to disqualify themselves from any rulings on this case because Campos and Svet do NOT obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Replace judges Svet and Campos because these judges have demonstrated, IN WRITING, they do not follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Plaintiffs' pleas are directed a replacement judge[s]. Not Svet and Campos. Therefore, Svet and Campos' failure to remove themselves does not stop the legal process. Mitchell cites NO law to support her claim that time constraints imposed under Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 are inapplicable as a result of Svet's and Campos' failure to remove themselves. 6 US Attorney Mitchell writes, Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. REPLACEMENT JUDGES of the Court should realize the outcome of the lawsuit has attained international interest as a result of the 1 bungled NSA spy sting on Iran 2 US government agencies NSA, NIST, and the FBI's attempt to control cryptography. Mitchell's DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS was posted on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome nsasuit8.htm USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion January 16, 1998 Importance of this posting is summed-up in the Toronto Sun, Jan. 11, 1998 US, Iran Need Each Other by Eric Margolis Iran launched a surprise charm offensive last week, throwing Washington into serious confusion. In a lengthy interview on CNN, Iran's new president, Mohammad Khatami, skillfully analyzed the bitter relations between the two nations and cautiously extended an olive branch to Washington, calling for an end to their 19-year cold war. Khatami's diplomatic ju-jitsu flummoxed the Clinton administration, which was busy trying to rally international support against Tehran - and to overthrow Iran's elected government. Both capitals are split over the question of relations. In Washington, the military establishment and conservative Republicans have inflated Iran into a bogeyman to justify military budgets and keep U.S. forces in the Mideast. ... America incited Iraq to invade Iran in 1980. They did this to crush the Islamic revolution, then provided massive war aid to Saddam Hussein. Half a million Iranians died. The US got caught involved in genocide. Using high tech. This is one subject of this lawsuit. Albuquerque Journal Tuesday 1/13/98 carried the editorial. Khatami Move Is Profile in Courage Richard Reeves Syndicated Columnist LOS ANGELES - If an American leader had done what Iranian President Mohammed Khatami did last Wednesday, it would have been hailed as a profile in courage. ... Miscalculation! We armed and pampered Saddam Hussein in the hope that Iraq would destroy Iran. Now that's policy and behavior to think about. Here is something to think about: If Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had pursued any kind of sensible policy toward Cuba and Fidel Castro - opposed to the policy of trying to assassinate him - there never would have been a Cuban missile crisis. I think Iranians have financed and encouraged terrorism against the interests of the United States and Israel. I would not be surprised at all if something like proof emerges soon, perhaps anonymously, from the CIA and other government agencies, where many officials have built their careers on sanctioning and isolating Iran, to try to straighten the backbones of the president and people of the United States. If they succeed, America fails. What would be more effective in closing down Iranian terrorism? More hostility, sanctions and charges? Or beginning the process toward more normal relations with a country positioned and born to be great? ... Clearly genocide fits into Now that's policy and behavior to think about. The wired world is watching what this Court, hopefully minus judges Svet and Campos, will do. What is there to be? A series of possibly unfortunate events? Or does this Court order release the lawfully requested documents to help settle this American tragedy? WHEREFORE. 7 Have replacement judges of this Court DENY Mitchell's Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied. for reason that Mitchell's request to subvert both the Discovery processes and its time limits have no basis in law. And appears to plead to judges who do not obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 9 IMMEDIATELY ORDER Defendant to release the requested documents in the interest of national safety so that this matter can be settled. Aggrieved victims of US genocide are reading these pleadings. Respectfully submitted, _________________________ William H. Payne 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 _________________________ Arthur R. Morales 1024 Los Arboles NW Albuquerque, NM 87107 Pro se litigants CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director, National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 and hand delivered to John J. Kelly, US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Tuesday January 20, 1997. 5 Title: Model 7200 HCLT High Capacity Lumber Tester The Metriguard Model 7200 High Capacity Lumber Tester was introduced in 1993. This machine is now certified by grading agencies in the United States, Canada and UK. Also in use in Japan and Austria. Speed capacity is unknown. We have run tests in excess of 2,000 ft/min, and have not seen any limitations or indications that it would not run faster. We expect this machine to keep up with planer developments and run in the neighborhood of 3,000 ft/min sometime within the next ten years. The machine is available with a number of options, including the recently introduced PC Data System, which adds new capability in marking options, shift reports, and internal error checking. Yet to come in Metriguard's program of continuous improvement are automatic wood temperature compensation, automatic zero tracking, scanner inputs. Please contact Metriguard Sales office for further information about how this machine can improve your lumber grading and mill profits. Return to home page From ForInformationVisitUs at OurWebSite.Now Sun Jan 18 23:37:10 1998 From: ForInformationVisitUs at OurWebSite.Now (ForInformationVisitUs at OurWebSite.Now) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:37:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: *** OFF-SHORE INVESTMENTS *** Message-ID: <96812119_29274965> ********************************************************************* - Remove from list information is after this important message - ********************************************************************* ******* *** OFF-SHORE INVESTMENTS *** Get A Higher Rate of Return on Your Investments Projects Audited by *** Coopers & Lybrand and Price Waterhouse *** Ever wished you could earn a rate of return on your investments that have traditionally been enjoyed only by the very wealthy? Welcome to Cyber Ventures Ltd. - Your gateway to outstanding and private off-shore investment opportunities. 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Investors profit through: - Project profit share - Capital appreciation - Interest on capital - Referral commission on sales For more information regarding Cyber Ventures Ltd., its Policies, Project Selection Criteria, Investment Criteria, Current Projects, the Investment Structure, Auditors, and how you can participate in this outstanding and private investment vehicle, you may contact us at: Cyber Ventures Web Site: http://www.cvltd.com E-mail: Info at cvltd.com Fax-On-Demand: +1(703) 834-8990 Doc #110 (Please call from a fax) Direct FAX : +27(21) 948-3188 Toll Free USA FAX : +1(888) 218-7034 Message Center: +1(888) 218-7034 Cyber Venture Orders: +27(21) 948-3183 ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: Bergston at ix.netcom.com in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail and send. ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 08:04:33 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:04:33 +0800 Subject: Signed document - a thought... Message-ID: <199801181631.KAA17197@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I was pondering the security issues regarding signed documents and key security. It occured to me that in all the discussion it is assumed that the document is transmitted after the key is transmitted. It seems to be that a higher level of security could be obtained by submitting the signed document first and then submit the signing key. This way when the document goes out Mallet has no idea what key to replace and any fudging of the document will destroy the sign. Then when the key goes out if it is replaced the document won't pass testing either since the server already has a unmod'ed copy. In short, instead of having each author have a signing key, have each document have a signature key and always submit the signed document prior to the signing key. After all it's the document and not the author (who we assume is already using an anonymous submission mechanism) we wish to verify from the end users perspective. The mechanims provides a means for the data haven server to verify the authenticity of the document and this allows them to pass that trust on to the end user in the same sort of way. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From lord_buttmonkey at juno.com Sun Jan 18 08:17:48 1998 From: lord_buttmonkey at juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:17:48 +0800 Subject: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980118.110654.3782.7.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> >>Another approach to reducing spam is of course to keep contacting >>ISPs to kill off bad users, and to get ISPs to refuse spamhauses >>as customers. >I love Eudora for a very simple reason: the simplicity >of the filters offered in even the free version. On the note of filters: Why are Netscape Communicator's filters nonworking? I couldn't get them to work, *ever*. From rdl at mit.edu Sun Jan 18 08:29:25 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:29:25 +0800 Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach Message-ID: (Kay Ping) writes: > It occured to me that the equivalent on the net would be to receive > packets with invalid source addresses. They are just there, coming dowm > the phone line to your modem. It takes significant resources and snooping > on a massive scale to locate where they are coming from.. All this is > assuming you can find some way to send a request with your address to the > server. I've looked at this idea for a while. It's great right now once you get away from the first couple of subnets, though. However, I've recently become aware of "IDIP", or "Intruder Detection and Isolation Protocol" through potentially questionable sources (my source is mostly NDA-wary). He assumes it will be implemented by having each router cache IP address, received interface tuples. Then, after the fact, one could go back and track someone router by router. The technical solution to this is to flood a router with forged packets while using it to transfer your own data, overflowing the cache. This presents the problem of being tracked by leaving a cloud of flooded routers in your wake. But it's possible. I get the impression the system is far from deployment, but that it is being worked on is a sign that potentially someone sees the rise in forged source address attacks and wants to curtail it. -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 08:38:22 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:38:22 +0800 Subject: Signed document - a thought... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801181708.LAA17343@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Jim Choate > Subject: Signed document - a thought... > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:31:36 -0600 (CST) > document have a signature key and always submit the signed document prior > to the signing key. After all it's the document and not the author (who we > assume is already using an anonymous submission mechanism) we wish to verify > from the end users perspective. One other assumption that I left out after I sent it was that the data haven and the key server are not the same machine. Sorry, I hope it makes a tad more sense with that proviso included. Sorry for sending an incomplete suggestion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From rdl at mit.edu Sun Jan 18 09:48:30 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:48:30 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: (Jim Choate) writes: > Ryan Lackey writes: > > Once your DBC escrow > > "account" runs out, the data is worthless > > That's a jump of logic. The data may infact be quite popular even though you > don't offer it anymore (might even do this in order to increase its worth, > say some sort of insider trader newsletter). It's probably not in the best > interest of the data haven model to speculate on exactly why a particular > source decides to quit sourcing. True. But in an Eternity model without copyright, someone could be one of the first customers to download the data, then upload it again under a different name. The only thing the original uploader would have as an advantage would be indexing information, potentially -- it's easier for me to download ms word by going to the eternity equivalent of http://www.microsoft.com/ than to go to http://www3.pop3-167.adhoc.warez.location.ai/edf3/filez1.zip. There's no real way to put the genie back into the bottle unless you can send people with guns to beat people up who store your data as a third party. Data disappears from Eternity once no one cares enough about it to pay to have it stored. That could mean someone doesn't pay in advance for the data, or no one is willing to invest disk space in the hope that it will in the future be downloaded. Providing eternity service costs money. Anything which lets users circumvent this opens up the potential for denial of service through consumption of resources attacks. Even if billing is fundamental, you still have the potential for the NSA to spend $100m to buy all the eternity space available at any point. This is why you also need market mechanisms -- if the NSA is willing to pay a premium for eternity service just to keep it out of the hands of the populace, then running eternity servers is a great investment, so capacity will increase until the NSA can no longer afford to buy all of it. A difficult part of designing a working Eternity service is to keep people from "stealing service", in terms of consumption of resources, during set up, indexing, etc. Basically, you need to make sure that to the greatest extent possible, anything which is a potentially scarce resource is sold, not given away. > > > remain in Eternity forever if no one cares enough about it to pay to > > have it stored. > > Then again, if it was really important I might intentionaly want to attack > the ability to provide long-term income. A better model might be to charge > for the access and let the actual submission be no charge. A portion of the > retrieval charge could then be piped back to the source. Consider the case > of say nuclear or biological information for a weapon. That sort of data > would be accessed only infrequently (unless you're giving something this > expensive to obtain and verify away - a d-h operator error, no.) but should > be quite expensive to retrieve. You then are vulnerable to someone spamming the system, unless you give the server operator some way of knowing if this encrypted data is likely to be valuable. I think both payment models should coexist. But there's no reason that the server operators are the only people able to speculate -- it could be just another random user. You can have arbitrarily complex payment models, since the enforcement agents can exist (must exist?) as eternity objects in their own right. > > > If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could > > just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for > > 50 years, > > More realisticaly they would have somebody just add it to a batch job and > let the spare cycles of the machines crank away at it. Or perhaps set up a > key challenge and get people all over the world to work on it in their spare > cycles. Who knows, perhaps the source of the data woudl be intriqued enough > to provide spare cycles unknowingly. No, the most feasible attacks for a resourced attacker are custom ASICs optimized for key testing, as were recently described. Distributed workstation cracking is a parlor trick if you have a billion dollar budget for key cracking. The NSA has general purpose HPC resources for purposes like signal processing, AI, etc., not for brute forcing people's keys routinely (although perhaps for a weak and nonstandard cipher, it would make sense to use general purpose machines). Even a corporation would be better off using FPGAs or ASICs for key cracking once you get past 56 bits. > > > If you do not postulate that level of signals collection capability on the > > It's not just their sig-int capability but their complete processing > resource capability that must be considered as well as their psychological > motivation. Granted, all of these are extremely difficult to measure let > alone verify. Perhaps a little paranoia might be a good thing. I assume the attacker is evil and rational. I also assume that the entire legal system has been subverted, and that extralegal operations of any size too small to make the new york times front page are possible. And, any entity which deals with the government (just about any) can be subverted. Thinking that the major internet gateways between providers are bugged by the NSA isn't really too unreasonable if you accept those assumptions. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | > | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | > | | > | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage at ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 18 09:51:30 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:51:30 +0800 Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980118175025.006deea8@pop.pipeline.com> Ryan Lackey wrote: >However, I've recently become aware of "IDIP", or "Intruder Detection >and Isolation Protocol" through potentially questionable sources (my >source is mostly NDA-wary). Ryan, Any chance you could get more info on this and pass it along? Or maybe your source could spec it through a remailer if you can persuade that the cutout is truly inviolable. Thanks, John From 97565462 at aol.com Mon Jan 19 02:01:39 1998 From: 97565462 at aol.com (97565462 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:01:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fastest & Easiest way to make money Message-ID: <199801190219.RAA111@mrin60.mail.aol.com> This is a one time mailing and your address has already been deleted from our database. Please take time to read this before you erase it! I would like to let you in on a good idea... I NEVER THOUGHT I'D BE THE ONE TELLING YOU THIS.... I ACTUALLY READ & ACTED ON A PIECE OF E-MAIL, AND NOW I'M GOING TO EUROPE FOR THE VACATION! My name is Jason ; I'm a 34-year-old father, husband, and full time office manager. As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. I received what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time. About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought, "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after receiving the reports paid a friend of mine a small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me. After reading the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! I was not prepared for the results. Everyday for the last six weeks, my P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size box! I am stunned by all the cash that keeps rolling in! I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money as we did. You don't need to be a wiz at the computer, but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope,remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. Believe me, it works! GO FOR IT NOW! Sincerely, Jason The following is a copy of the e-mail I read: This is a LEGAL, LOW-COST, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN GET STARTED TODAY! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly... 100% OF THE TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc., - Even retire! This is your chance, so read on and get started today! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Basically, this is what we do: We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S.allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: * $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. ( I talked to a friend last month who has also done this program. He said he had tried "playing" with it to change the results. Bad idea.... he never got as much money as he did with the un-altered version. Remember, it's a proven method! a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement and remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 50 grand! c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the INTERNET! Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY! 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTS ------------------------------------------ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Jason Baek 15507 S. Normandie Ave. # 167. Gardena, Ca 90247-4028 ______________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Brain 150 Main St N # 74075 Brampton, Ont., Canada L6V 4J7 ______________________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: AMF Investments 2319 South Kirkwood # 144 Houston, TX 77077 ______________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Fusion Marketing Ltd. 8895 Towne Centre Drive Suite 105-303A La Jolla, Ca 92122-5542 ______________________________________________________________ HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 10 members with $5............................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).....................$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)............$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000 THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade! About 50,000 new people get online every month! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! ******* T E S T I M O N I A L S ******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO GETTING EXTRA CASH DAILY! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 10:36:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:36:50 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801181904.NAA17705@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 18 Jan 1998 12:45:02 -0500 > True. But in an Eternity model without copyright, someone could be one of > the first customers to download the data, then upload it again under a > different name. So in your model there isn't any form of check on the data for redundency? > The only thing the original uploader would have as > an advantage would be indexing information, potentially -- it's easier > for me to download ms word by going to the eternity equivalent of > http://www.microsoft.com/ than to go to > http://www3.pop3-167.adhoc.warez.location.ai/edf3/filez1.zip. Not if it's: http://ww.microsoft.com/software/commercial/wordprocessing/msword/x.y/ \ msword.zip This is a specious point. The fact is that from the users perspective the index would automagicaly provide the actual resting place for the server to find it, even if it were on a different server. The whole point is to make the software do the druggery. The length of the pathname or URL is irrelevant at that point. > There's no real way to put the genie back into the bottle unless you can > send people with guns to beat people up who store your data as a third party. The point being that if we take the average user of a data haven model they don't have the resources (money, technical skill, bandwidth, etc.) to set up a data haven of their own. Further, the storing of the data by other parties isn't the issue, it isn't the data havens data. This is one of the primary reasons that really important data should be expensive to get initialy. It goes back to what I was saying in a previous post about Grace Hoppers worth-v-time model. > Data disappears from Eternity once no one cares enough about it to pay to > have it stored. What this over-looks is the potential for that data to become relevant to some currently unknown situation in the future. While I agree that the data should not necessarily be in a fast medium storage after a certain time period it should not simply be thrown away. If nothing else at some point it will have historical (inexpensive, it's still money) relevance. > Providing eternity service costs money. Life costs money, that is one of the reasons that you don't want to throw stuff away that may bring in income down the road. > Anything which lets users circumvent > this opens up the potential for denial of service through consumption of > resources attacks. There simply isn't a way around that except to out bandwidth the attacker. > Even if billing is fundamental, you still have the > potential for the NSA to spend $100m to buy all the eternity space available > at any point. > This is why you also need market mechanisms > -- if the NSA > is willing to pay a premium for eternity service just to keep it out of > the hands of the populace, then running eternity servers is a great > investment, so capacity will increase until the NSA can no longer afford > to buy all of it. I like it when you write my own rebuttal for me...:) The bottem line is that the market mechanism *is* the willingness of some party to buy that space. Nothing more, nothing less. Further, Mallet ain't stupid or he'd have starved a long time ago. > A difficult part of designing a working Eternity service is to keep people > from "stealing service", in terms of consumption of resources, during > set up, indexing, etc. Basically, you need to make sure that to the > greatest extent possible, anything which is a potentially scarce resource > is sold, not given away. The point is that *nothing* is given away for free, though you might want to let people *give* you resources for free. Which is the point I was making. > You then are vulnerable to someone spamming the system, unless you give > the server operator some way of knowing if this encrypted data is likely > to be valuable. The point is that the system can *always* be spammed. You *don't* charge the source of data a million dollars to put it on your server. It's gotta be source cheap or else it isn't worth their time to bother with it. If you *really* want to promote such servers what you need is a model that allows submitters free access *and* a share in the subscribers fees. Then everyone wins. If the source has something they know is worth god awful sums of money they aren't going to submit it to the data haven anyway, they'll set their own haven up and reap the benefits directly. There is an economic issue here that is at parity with the technical issues. > You can have arbitrarily complex payment models, since the enforcement > agents can exist (must exist?) as eternity objects in their own right. Not really, at some point the complexity works against itself - you should study a little chaos theory. The final point is to make the system (ie the logical linking of black box operations that themselves may be quite technical or complex) dirt simple. > No, the most feasible attacks for a resourced attacker are custom ASICs > optimized for key testing, as were recently described. Distributed > workstation cracking is a parlor trick if you have a billion dollar budget > for key cracking. Tell that to the NSA and their Cray-acres. The point is that even if you have customer ASIC's or FPGA's or whatever these are still computers and you can't seriously be suggesting that the resources to create customer hardware for specific goals is any less complicated or more inexpensive than using general purpose hardware when looked at from a global scale. If that model were so generaly applicable then we should move all our processing jobs to ASIC's and reap the benefits. There is also the issue that even if you use customer chips to develop customer key cracking hardware (which I agree is being done as we speak) there is still the inescapable fact that you will need lots(!) of them. So the result is that whether they are custom or general purpose devices the sheer quantity becomes a hinderance. > The NSA has general purpose HPC resources for purposes like signal processing, > AI, etc., not for brute forcing people's keys routinely (although perhaps for > a weak and nonstandard cipher, it would make sense to use general purpose > machines). Even a corporation would be better off using FPGAs or ASICs for > key cracking once you get past 56 bits. That would depend on the economics of startup and what kind of footprint that would leave in the industry. This is one of the reasons that the NSA builds their own chips. > I assume the attacker is evil and rational. My, my. Moral stipulations are probably no more relevant than psychological classifications. The issue is one of emotion. Mallet wants it because it benefits Mallet and hinders Mallets enemies. This is an emotional reason and most definitely outside the bounds of simple rational/irrational action classification. When I was speaking of psychology earlier in my submissions I was not the least bit implying any comment on rationality, goodness, or other relative classifications. I was refering to greed, pride, honor, self-respect, etc. as motivations. The interactions of those in individuals and organizations doesn't depend on classifications. > I also assume that the > entire legal system has been subverted, and that extralegal operations of > any size too small to make the new york times front page are possible. And, > any entity which deals with the government (just about any) can be subverted. Any government can be subverted as well, happens on a regular basis. The legal system may not need to be subverted for the simple reason that more than one legal system may be involved. The front page example you are so fond of is a instance that would take, my guess, probably in the neighborhood of $10k to have a full page for a single day. To make the participants investment in that sum worth it, what is their pay off in your system? Just having their name in the paper probably isn't worth it. The wide public advertisment, and hence notoriety is probably not a big plus either. Especialy considering that it would guarantee the participant a nice bug-for-life experience. > Thinking that the major internet gateways between providers are bugged by > the NSA isn't really too unreasonable if you accept those assumptions. Whether the providers themselves are bugged are not is really irrelevant, its the backbone infrastructure providers who are providing the access points. You tap the satellite transfer point, for example, not the 300 organizations sending data down it. You tap the telephone switch in each neighborhood, not the individual lines on their subscriber end trunks. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From lordsmen at iquest.net Sun Jan 18 11:23:24 1998 From: lordsmen at iquest.net (Young iVillian) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:23:24 +0800 Subject: to Anonymous Message-ID: <199801181905.LAA04320@toad.com> Right on, man. E-Mail me... I'd like to have a conversation w/ you. Technological takeover... we bring it on ourselves. We have no one to blame. From schear at lvdi.net Sun Jan 18 11:49:21 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:49:21 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801180123.TAA16226@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 7:23 PM -0600 1/17/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) >> From: Ryan Lackey >> Date: 17 Jan 1998 19:07:10 -0500 > >> Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is >> what they want > >> The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. > >How are these fundamently different? Assume for a moment that as a user of >an eternity server the source is the data I want. (I didn't see anyone comment on my posting under "Re: remailer resistancs to attack", so I thought I'd repost under this thread. My apologies for any inconvience.) Came across this paper and thought it might contribute to improving remailer reliability, "How to Maintain Authenticated Communication in the Presence of Break-ins," http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~tcryptol/OLD/old-02.html --Steve From kent at songbird.com Sun Jan 18 12:09:31 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:09:31 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980118120234.40255@songbird.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 12:45:02PM -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: [...] > > Data disappears from Eternity once no one cares enough about it to pay to > have it stored. That could mean someone doesn't pay in advance for the data, > or no one is willing to invest disk space in the hope that it will in > the future be downloaded. > > Providing eternity service costs money. Anything which lets users circumvent > this opens up the potential for denial of service through consumption of > resources attacks. Even if billing is fundamental, you still have the > potential for the NSA to spend $100m to buy all the eternity space available > at any point. This is why you also need market mechanisms -- if the NSA > is willing to pay a premium for eternity service just to keep it out of > the hands of the populace, then running eternity servers is a great > investment, so capacity will increase until the NSA can no longer afford > to buy all of it. > > A difficult part of designing a working Eternity service is to keep people > from "stealing service", in terms of consumption of resources, during > set up, indexing, etc. Basically, you need to make sure that to the > greatest extent possible, anything which is a potentially scarce resource > is sold, not given away. There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem more robust, as well. The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for the software to support all this. In a little more detail: you have say 1 megabyte of data that you would like to be stored in the Eternity Service. The overhead of storage in eternity is a factor of two, and you would like 10 times redundancy. So you contact the Eternity Service Software provider, and get the software. You then configure the software to supply 20 megabytes of your disk space to the system. This allows you to supply 1 meg of your own data. The 20 megs will of course not store *your* data -- it will store other eternity data. The service takes your data and spreads it across 10 other sites, whose locations are unknown and unknowable to you. In return, you are storing eternity data for other users. If your disk space becomes unavailable your file disappears from the service. (Of course, someone else could pick it up and store it, if it was valuable information.) This is a self-financing model. Every writer to the eternity service pays for their own bandwidth and disk space. The eternity service provider is financed by maintaining the software that all the writers use -- client/server software will have to run on many different platforms, some protocols may be better than others, and it might be worth buying your eternity software from a high-reputation ("trustworthy") provider. Note that this doesn't mean that data suppliers can't be paid for providing data -- but that is a completely separable problem that can have many different solutions. I believe this approach does solve the financing part. But it does make the rest a *very* complicated problem -- you have a dynamic, self-configuring network of data sources and sinks, with all the configuration data encrypted along with the data. Ideally, of course, the data would be migrating constantly. Retrieval would probably be very slow -- basically email speeds, or worse. In fact, perhaps the data would be retrieved by having the eternity service use the remailer network to send it... -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 12:26:46 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:26:46 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:02:34 -0800 > From: Kent Crispin > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in > any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem > more robust, as well. > > The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is > free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers > supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for > the software to support all this. It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance the enterprise in the first place. Imagine for a moment that a couple of persons come into possession of a set of documents which would cause considerable political embarassment and legal difficulties for a head of the local government. Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the data. They then have two options, release it themselves and hope for the best (and hence reap the benefit of any economic benefits that might acrue) or do nothing with it. How about information to build man portable atomic bombs? It doesn't make sense to take all those chances and the data haven operators to take the chances when they will get at most the monetary input from a *single* party. It is clear that these resources are clearly inferior to many parties paying to get the data. I guess the question boils down to why the individual operator in running the server in the first place. I assume a priori that the goal of both the submitter and the operator is to make a reliable income from the users of the service since there are clearly many more consumers of information than producers of it. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From anon at anon.efga.org Sun Jan 18 12:28:46 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:28:46 +0800 Subject: Other c'punk lists? Message-ID: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> Hi are there any other cypherpunk lists? With all due respect this list has a *lot* of noise Perhaps something with- out the anarchy. I enjoy the wild side of this list but I would also like something more targeted. Thanks in advance From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sun Jan 18 13:02:12 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:02:12 +0800 Subject: diplomacy In-Reply-To: <34C21266.142B@nmol.com> Message-ID: <199801182057.VAA18102@basement.replay.com> bill payne wrote: > I sure hope the following was diplomatic enough. > > NSA exhibited NO SENSE OF HUMOR when I pointed out > 'deficiencies' in its crypto algorithm work. But, too, > the agrieve Islamic fundamentalists may not have too good > senses of humor. [...] > Sampling at the 1 Khz rate revealed that Windows > occasionally �did its own thing� as a result of a task > switch and, therfore, interrupts were missed. I find it highly amusing that NSA would design supposedly secure crypto systems on completely insecure operating systems. If NSA's computers can be taken out just by sending a few packet fragments with bad offsets or macro viruses, that's beyond 'deficiencies' it's utter incompetance... From rfarmer at HiWAAY.net Sun Jan 18 13:10:10 1998 From: rfarmer at HiWAAY.net (Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:10:10 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <199801181433.JAA13137@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: ... > (provided back door attacks, fundamental breakthroughs in cryptography, etc. > are not made...a bet I'm forced to make, even though I don't like it) You can tilt the odds in your favor some at the cost of speed; use more rounds for the block ciphers and base your public-key security on two hard problems, not one (i.e., encrypt randomness with one public-key cryptosystem and encrypt the key XORed with this randomness with an algorithm based on an unrelated hard problem). That means much more work, but the insurance against improvements in math/crypto is worth it, I'd think. ... > Actually, Eternity is no different than emailing a file, given a SIGINT > capability at the attacker which allows all internet traffic to be monitored. > If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could > just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for > 50 years, then attack it... 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It's up to the user to verify that the data is > > what they want > > > The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. > > Assume for a moment that as a user of an eternity server the source is the > data I want. Ok... [...] > > * A random user who has the public keys of at least (thresh) number of the > > cypherpunks, optionally the key of the author of the document/product before > > the system becomes questionable, perhaps by looking in the NY Times > > for 1 Jan 1999 which has a full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous > > with the PGP public keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. > > Pretty expensive and rather unrealistic I suspect. The NYT ad? I think that was at least partly a joke (besides, if some cypherpunks did take out an ad, I'd predict propaganda in 2/3 of the page and fine-print PGP-key fingerprints in the rest :). > Where does this random user come from? Why does it matter? As long as she's competent enough to choose good verifiers and verify that those verifiers verified the code in question, it all works out in the end. > What is '(thresh)'? What good would an anonymous key signature provide? Thresh is the number of signatures from trusted people/keys required to trust a section of code, a value set by the user. An anonymous sig would be very little good but I think he was talking about including the author's sig if he's not anonymous. > [...] How do we know that some number of these cypherpunks aren't turned? We don't. There is no way to operate without *some* trust; this reduces it from the code being shown to be secure if the author is not spookized AND The author is capable to check his/her code AND the key he signed it with is good to the code being good if those conditions are true for one (or a few) of the many cypherpunks on the user's trusted list who signed the code. > Are you proposing that the user test all 100 of the signatures? Well, I think he's proposing to have a script check them and the user personally make sure the script is doing what it should. > Which realistica[l]ly is the only way to verify any given one of them. Not > very many people will go to that extreme simply for grins and giggles. > > > * The piece of code to be verified is bloody long, that is, longer than > > any one cypherpunk can afford to verify alone (shooting practice, > > installing the minefields and poison gas sprinkler system, etc. take > > lots of time) Not to mention churning out that propaganda for the NYT ad, becoming tolerant to pepper spray, preparing various fake identities for use, proving Blowfish secure and then breaking it, constructing a doomsday weapon using only a straightedge and compass, etc. > > The standard is programs over ~10k lines is not comprehensible by a single > individual on a line by line basis. Might be, but this code has to be more than just understood -- it must be painstakingly checked for subtle flaws and bugs. Welcome to the world of adversarial quality control. > > > * The user can tell by visual inspection that a small compilation > > system does what they want it to do, and can understand basic logic > > enough to tell what signatures imply. > > 'small compilation system' of what? What who wants it to do? The author? > Mallet? The end user? The C/Java/whatever compiler, I suppose, and also the signature checker, and she's checking that they carry out their stated purposes. ... > > 2) The user wants to run the code, because it's Just That Cool. > > We're talking here about users who want to get data that is illegal or > otherwise incriminating or dangerous to one group or another. In particular > let's consider the situation of a Lebanese freedom fighter in Isreal or > perhaps a 'Free Burma' revolutionary in China. I think the issue was one of users who want to get eternity server source they can trust -- not necessarily getting it *from* Eternity. > > > 3) No one can verify the entire code. So, Cypherpunks begin signing > > small sections of the code with their own previously-established key. > > Their keys are established as their reputation is established on > > the list, or perhaps by personally meeting these people, in the > > traditional PGP web of trust scheme. There is no central Cypherpunks > > Registry, just a decentralized mesh. > > Which doesn't effect the ability of Mallet to resign that code at the users > end in order to break the users local security. Unless you're exposing a new weakness in the trust model PGP uses, Mallet can't do that, providing the user has done good key authentication and hasn't listed one of Mallet's goons as a trusted code-verifier. > > > 4) The user executes the compilation script. > > [material describing script verification deleted] > > Mallet can re-write said script [...] Yup, that's why the user has to check it by hand. Lots easier to check a script and a compiler for doing their functions than to check an eternity server for subtle bugs. > > > I fail to see how the specifics of Eternity are relevant -- it's > > just basically a PGP web of trust issue. The transport is irrelevant -- > > it's untrusted code until it's been verified by people the user > > trusts. > > The end user may not have people available to trust is the point. Well, if you can't verify it yourself and you can't trust other people to verify it, my advice is to give up; you cannot be sure of *any* public keys in that case, so any message you encrypt might be encrypted to one of Mallet's keys; any sig you check might be signed by one of Mallet's keys. > The reason the transport mechanism is relevant is that it is much easier to > spoof a verification script if the user is not going to be surprised with 24 > hour turn around on requests, whereas a responce time measured in minutes > lessens the window of opportunity to Mallet significantly. If Mallet is a NSA spook who's half as good as my hacker buddy Phat Atta and knew about the script ahead of time, the user can't trust the script without verifying it herself, whether it takes milliseconds or millenia to get the response. > > It may come as a surprise to you and others but not everyone in the world > can pick up a phone and call a 100 people all over the world and not raise > some suspicion. Ah, but either I am more mistaken than usual or you only need a few of the signers to be trusted, not all of them. > > > Implementing a keyserver in Eternity has the same issues > > While it is perfectly permissible to design Eternity or any data haven with > inherent key servers, I believe it is a bad idea from a design perspective > because it makes the code even larger, decreases the potential for monetary > motives for indipendant key servers to appear, and if the server is > compromised then the key server is also. Not sure, but I think he's talking about putting up a key server in Eternity (i.e., the rolling hills where data can roam without fear, as opposed to putting it in the Eternity). > It is more expensive if Mallet can be forced to deal with two [independent] > operators then a single monolithic operator. > > [rest deleted] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer at hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 18 14:02:30 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:02:30 +0800 Subject: e-mail muddling. In-Reply-To: <008801bd22cf$131ec440$ab8588d1@justice> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118125130.00836aa0@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 02:35 PM 1/16/98 -0800, wabe wrote: > -- >Also wouldn't it be easier to de-muddle an e-mail >message than a brute force attack? I mean, >you KNOW what muddled it. And you know >the general way it got muddled. It's not pgp, >it's just some line breaks a bit too early for their >time... Not particularly. If the muddler wraps all lines at N characters, then you can guess that all lines N characters long can probably be put back together, which isn't hard, but if it also loses any white space (e.g. trailing spaces) then you've got exponentially many possibilities. It may be worth trying to fix a couple of the easy ones, though. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jan 18 14:13:29 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:13:29 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Internet security (VERY LONG) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Subject: Fwd: Internet security (VERY LONG) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 12:34:36 -0500 From: Somebody To: "Robert Hettinga" Mime-Version: 1.0 ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/17 3:25 PM Received: 01/17 5:24 PM From: Richard Fairfax, richard_fairfax at compuserve.com Reply-To: CSA Talk, csa at blueworld.com To: CSA Talk, csa at blueworld.com The following forwarded mail may have implications for clients with sensitive data. The field encription features in Troi FM Plug-in could prove to be a valuable asset. Richard Fairfax Oakwood Designs ---forwarded mail START--- From: gp-uk at mailbase.ac.uk,Net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Aus: z-netz.datenschutz.spionage: A GLOBAL electronic spy network that can eavesdrop on every telephone, email and telex communication around the world will be officially acknowledged for the first time in a European Commission report to be delivered this week. The report - Assessing the Technologies of Political Control - was commissioned last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled intelligence stations on British soil and around the world, that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitor countless phone, fax and email messages. It states: "Within Europe all email telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency transfering all target information from the European mainland via the strategic hub of London then by satellite to Fort Meade in Maryland via the crucial hub at Menwith Hill in the North York moors in the UK." The report confirms for the first time the existence of the secretive ECHELON system. Until now, evidence of such astounding technology has been patchy and anecdotal. But the report - to be discussed on Thursday by the commit- tee of the office of Science and Technology Assessment in Luxembourg - confirms that the citizens of Britain and other European states are subject to an intensity of surveillance far in excess of that imagined by most parliaments. Its findings are certain to excite the concern of MEPs. "The ECHELON system forms part of the UKUSA system (see 'Cooking up a charter for snooping') but unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, ECHELON is designed primarily for non- military targets: governments, organizations and businesses in vir- tually every country. "The ECHELON system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and then siphoning out what is valuable using artificial intelligence aids like MEMEX to find key words". According to the report, ECHELON uses a number of national dictionaries containing key words of interest to each country. For more than a decade, former agents of US, British, Canadian and New Zealand national security agencies have claimed that the monitoring of electronic communications has become endemic throughout the world. Rumours have circulated that new technologies have been developed which have the capability to search most of the world's telex, fax and email networks for "key words". Phone calls, they claim, can be automatically analysed for key words. Former signals intelligence operatives have claimed that spy bases controlled by America have the ability to search nearly all data communications for key words. They claim that ECHELON automatically analyses most email messaging for "precursor" data which assists in- telligence agencies to determine targets. According to former Canadian Security Establishment agent Mike Frost, a voice recognition system called Oratory has been used for some years to intercept diplomatic calls. The driving force behind the report is Glyn Ford, Labour MEP for Greater Manchester East. He believes that the report is crucial to the future of civil liberties in Europe. "In the civil liberties committee we spend a great deal of time debating issues such as free movement, immigration and drugs. Technology always sits at the centre of these discussions. There are times in history when technology helps democratise, and times when it helps centralise. This is a time of centralisation. The justice and home affairs pillar of Europe has become more powerful without a corresponding strengthening of civil liberties." The report recommends a variety of measures for dealing with the increasing power of the technologies of surveillance being used at Menwith Hill and other centres. It bluntly advises: "The European Parliament should reject proposals from the United States for making private messages via the global communications network (Internet) a ccessible to US intelligence agencies." The report also urges a fundamental review of the involvement of the American NSA (National Security Agency) in Europe, suggesting that their activities be either scaled down, or become more open and accountable. Such concerns have been privately expressed by governments and MEPs since the Cold War, but surveillance has continued to expand. US intel- ligence activity in Britain has enjoyed a steady growth throughout the past two decades. The principal motivation for this rush of development is the US interest in commercial espionage. In the Fifties, during the development of the "special relationship" between America and Britain, one US institution was singled out for special attention. The NSA, the world's biggest and most powerful signals intelligence organisation, received approval to set up a network of spy stations throughout Britain. Their role was to provide military, diplomatic and economic intelligence by intercepting communications from throughout the Northern Hemisphere. The NSA is one of the shadowiest of the US intelligence agencies. Until a few years ago, it existence was a secret and its charter and any mention of its duties are still classified. However, it does have a Web site (www.nsa.gov:8080) in which it describes itself as being respon- sible for the signals intelligence and communications security activ- ities of the US government. One of its bases, Menwith Hill, was to become the biggest spy station in the world. Its ears - known as radomes - are capable of listening in to vast chunks of the communications spectrum throughout Europe and the old Soviet Union. In its first decade the base sucked data from cables and microwave links running through a nearby Post Office tower, but the communi- cations revolutions of the Seventies and Eighties gave the base a capability that even its architects could scarcely have been able to imagine. With the creation of Intelsat and digital telecommunications, Menwith and other stations developed the capability to eavesdrop on an extensive scale on fax, telex and voice messages. Then, with the development of the Internet, electronic mail and electronic commerce, the listening posts were able to increase their monitoring capability to eavesdrop on an unprecedented spectrum of personal and business communications. This activity has been all but ignored by the UK Parliament. When Labour MPs raised questions about the activities of the NSA, the Government invoked secrecy rules. It has been the same for 40 years. Glyn Ford hopes that his report may be the first step in a long road to more openness. "Some democratically elected body should surely have a right to know at some level. At the moment that's nowhere". See also in this week's issue: Pretty good Phil bounces back (a report on the consolidation of the reputation of Phil Zimmermann, creator of PGP). 14 October 1997: Europe's private parts to expand * * * * * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilfe zu den BvD Mailinglisten? An- oder Abmelden? Mail an bvd-majordomo at ibh.tfu.uni-ulm.de, Subject: egal, Text: help ODER: http://www.fh-ulm.de/bvd ---forwarded mail END--- ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 14:16:28 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:16:28 +0800 Subject: Signed document - a thought... In-Reply-To: <199801181631.KAA17197@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801182106.VAA00440@server.eternity.org> Sounds like you are describing something which is a variant of an interlock protocol. The idea of an interlock protocol is that you send out first a hash of what you are intending to publish. The MITM has a problem in deciding what to publish, because they have to publish _a_ hash, but they don't know what it should be of. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 14:16:34 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:16:34 +0800 Subject: hashcash / Dwork-Naor paper (Re: RSA Conference: Deterence measures for SPAM) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801182157.VAA00551@server.eternity.org> Steve Schear writes on cypherpunks: > Kevin McCurley, IBM, delivered a paper on using electronic commerce > techniques (i.e., d-postage) to deter SPAM. He cites a work by > Cynthia Dwork and Moni Naor, "Pricing via Processing or Combatting > Junk Mail," > http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/Papers/trs/CS95-20/abstract.html I > wan't able to access that paper and would be interested to know how > similar their appraoch is to HashCash. I had a look and their approach is very similar to that of hashcash. Thanks for posting the reference, I found the paper very interesting, and have contacted the authors (and Kevin (who is also webmaster of www.digicrime.com)) with comments. Their work predates hashcash by about 4 years. They have the same idea of using a CPU cost function to combat unsolicited bulk email and other unmetered resource abuses. Their cost functions are not based on hash collisions, but on public key problems. The use of public key problems allows them to construct a trap-door cost function. The holder of the private key can compute valid tokens cheaply. This allows them to propose a third party which sells bulk email tokens without itself having to have large CPU resources. Their example application is what they see as legitimate bulk emails, like conference calls. (I am not sure I always agree with this -- I get no end of spam conference calls which I have no interest in attending or submitting to, but the functionality of trap-door cost functions does allow more flexibility). Their cost functions are more expensive to verify than hashcash because they involve modular exponentations. I can simulate the short cut cost function functionality with symmetric encryption techniques by modifying the hashcash protocol. Users, or service providers wishing to participate in enabling a third party to sell tokens to bulk emailers for their email address(es) can aid the third party in bypassing the hashcash verification process on their eternity filter. This can be done with no databases on the ISP mail hub server (preserving privacy), and with no real time communications required between trusted bulk email token seller and mail hub. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 14:17:35 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:17:35 +0800 Subject: eternity economics (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801182140.VAA00472@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > Kent Crispin writes: > > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > > > There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in > > any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem > > more robust, as well. > > > > The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is > > free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers > > supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for > > the software to support all this. > > It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment > mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. > I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of > the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance > the enterprise in the first place. > > Imagine for a moment that a couple of persons come into possession of a set > of documents which would cause considerable political embarassment and legal > difficulties for a head of the local government. > > Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to > anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, > political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the > data. If the would be disseminater was happy to have their name associated with the document, they could put it on their own web page. The problems may be that: - they do not want to suffer the legal and extra-legal reprisals for posting, - they have little faith in the data remaining available for long on their web page, once well resourced determined attackers try to remove it. Eternity helps here in that it obscures the poster's identity, and reduces their exposure in that they personally don't have to send as many messages. Eternity also helps ensure continued availability, at least while somebody is funding that availability. > They then have two options, release it themselves and hope for the > best (and hence reap the benefit of any economic benefits that might > acrue) or do nothing with it. Releasing the data themselves is problematic. They may not wish to accept the risk. Eternity provides a way to pay someone else to take the risks in ensuring availability. > How about information to build man portable atomic bombs? It doesn't > make sense to take all those chances and the data haven operators to > take the chances when they will get at most the monetary input from > a *single* party. It is clear that these resources are clearly > inferior to many parties paying to get the data. The users is getting value for money from the eternity servers -- the eternity server is providing the service of risk taking. It is true that someone could pay for accessing the data, and resubmit it to eternity with themselves as the beneficiary. They would likely want to undercut the price charged by the initial poster. This suggests a recursive auction market with prices falling over time. The eternity server operators win in that they are being paid for their services. The original poster possibly doesn't make that much money, but the operator could counter by reducing their prices over time to undercut other copies also. There are other ways where the submitter could get higher prices. He could for example post the data in encrypted form, and send the decryption key to a high reputation third party to verify the authenticity of the data. He could then demand $10,000 for the key. Bids would be placed by users interested in obtaining the data. When the bid price is reached the data is posted. Bids would be held in escrow by the third party. In the event that the requested price is not met the ecash could be returned to the bidders. The market will discover the value of the risk taking services provided by the eternity servers in that if the servers over-charge, users will take their own risks, by starting their own servers. If a given server under-charges, other servers will sub contract to that server. There is a risk here that the NSA may offer eternity services at prices undercutting everyone else. This risk suggests that users would not necessarily select the cheapest services. If this pattern of usage emerges, it also suggests that the NSA would better optimise their efficacy by not offering the cheapest prices. The problem of preventing eternity servers sub-contracting all their work to the cheapest eternity-server (the NSA operated servers) suggests that it may be desirable to design a system so that the poster, or some third party auditing agent is able to verify where data resides. I can not see how this can generally be achieved, because it seems difficult to verify whether a server is sub-contracting or not. So in conclusion the safest strategy seems to be to select random servers regardless of price. This results in a flat demand curve, and no incentive for servers to offer cheap service. The model is more complex that this in that there are different risk documents and this risk would affect the price a submitter is willing to pay. Adam From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 18 14:26:04 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:26:04 +0800 Subject: uh, In-Reply-To: <199801181249.MAA00208@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: Adam Back writes: > > Bill Payne used to work for one of the US national labs, he did some > work funded by NSA at that lab. He considered that the NSA were > making incompetent cryptographic decisions endangering national > security. > > He's suing them over their attempts to silence his criticisms by > working behind the scenes to deprive him of research funding. ... Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well be right. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 18 15:00:58 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:00:58 +0800 Subject: New Software Controls In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980117020259.00733f54@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118144309.00868e80@popd.ix.netcom.com> (Wasenaar discussion...) >> You might want to highlight the following section ... not sure of the >> entire context ... but this isn't something that I'd seen before. It looks >> like control of any software that can transmit data. >> >> c.3. ``Software'' which provides the capability of recovering >> ``source code'' of telecommunications ``software'' controlled by >> 5A001, 5B001, or 5C001; >Export ban on decompilers? Disassemblers? Debuggers? >These tools are general purpose, so this seems particularly weird. It's only weird if you assume the authors have a clue... Depending on the overall context, telco software companies and their customers may find this section interesting as well. If they were thinking at all when they wrote this, they were probable concerned about products that let people ship exportable binaries and patchtools that let users recover the source code to undo the limitations. But as you say, general purpose tools work fine. The special purpose tools I've seen have been the ones that patch the binaries of Netscape 40-bit versions to reenable 128-bit capability, and they just use binary. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 18 15:38:32 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:38:32 +0800 Subject: Voice Coding Controls Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980118233849.0071684c@pop.pipeline.com> DM notes of the BXA Wassenaar rule for voice coding: After looking at some of the Wassenaar docs, I was surprised to see that the CCL wants to regulate speech encoders that operate at less than 2400 bps. Surprising because it was encoding, not encryption, that was being regulated. This is disturbing. This at first seemed to put some of the Nautilus development team's software in jeopardy, but I believe that by the letter of the law (or regulation) that all coders in Nautilus are not subject to the CCL, as they only go as low as 2400 bps and not less than. For citations of voice coding in Category 5 - Telecommunications: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-cat5.htm#5A001b10 http://jya.com/bxa-wa-cat5.htm#5A991b6a From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Jan 18 15:45:22 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:45:22 +0800 Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) Message-ID: <199801182338.PAA13453@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- At 10:48 PM 1/16/98 +0000, Steve Mynott wrote: > SMIME of course despite bad cypherpunk karma is easy and > maybe even works between mailers. Easy indeed, if all the keys from Verisign are correct and secured. It is indeed very easy to use SMIME. To use it so that it actually accomplishes the intended result is not so easy. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG Np4QfrajG+6u2ZHUc2AFBH0uTX9nCJxCUi7E2bpk 3CGDysj2FaqaZYBM4bRe6dvLCkbb0ltwLns5aFPQ9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 15:49:48 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:49:48 +0800 Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801182321.XAA00251@server.eternity.org> Randall Farmer writes: > > > [...] perhaps by looking in the NY Times for 1 Jan 1999 which has a > > > full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous with the PGP public > > > keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. > > > > Pretty expensive and rather unrealistic I suspect. > > The NYT ad? I think that was at least partly a joke (besides, if > some cypherpunks did take out an ad, I'd predict propaganda in 2/3 > of the page and fine-print PGP-key fingerprints in the rest :). I would have thought you would take out a cheap personals section advertisement and print one hash output and a URL. The hash ouput would be the hash of the hashes of a chosen set of public key fingerprints. Say some group of list members ponies up the cost of the ad, and then a list of people wishing to have their key hashed is drawn up. We collect their public keys, post them on the web page, and take out the ad. I would be interested to do this. What do personals ads in the NYT cost? We might also like to think before hand about how to obtain best utility from the hash we publish. We could even offer a key server with a regularly published hash which retained information to inform which subset of keys corresponds to each days hash output advertisement. You may as well include a second hash for a time stamping service hash tree output while you're at it. (Or we could combine the two hashes into one hash). Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Dimitri Vulis writes: > Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of > crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast > factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to > publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well > be right. Bill Payne's claim to having discovered a faster factorization algorithm than the current state of the art, allows us to invoke the oft discussed mechanisms for the author to prove this ability without divulging the algorithm, and then proceed to sell the algorithm to the highest bidder, whilst minimizing his chances of being killed. I am sure many here remember various past discussions which were based on the "what if" question: one has discovered a fast factorization algorithm and our aims as discoverer are to: - maximise price for selling algorithm - minimise chance of being killed by the NSA to silence one - proving that we posses a fast algorithm Minimising our chances of being killed would seem to rely on: - posting our sale via BlackNet (ie posting anonymously) - having a disclosure mechanism in place which will be invoked on the eventuality of our premature death in an unfortunate `accident' Bill Payne seems to have already blown the first option in disclosing his identity. His dilemma is now that if the highest bidder is the NSA, they may kill him afterwards to prevent a release of the algorithm. This is where a robust disclosure mechanism in event of premature death would be useful. I hope Bill has invested in such a plan. Maximise price for selling algorithm: hold out for the highest bidder. Or perhaps sell to multiple parties with NDAs (would NDAs be sufficient to protect such valuable information?) Are there any reasons why Bill should be refusing to divulge the algorithm? Perhaps he is waiting for a higher bid. What is the current highest bid? What about alternate motives? Perhaps he is not interested in money, but rather in proving NSA incompetence? Or if Bill doesn't in fact have an algorithm, what would be the motives for falsely claiming that he does? Is he working for the NSA to spread FUD? Lastly proving that Bill has a fast algorithm (or acess to some nice hardware at NSA). Several RSA public key challenges are posted and Bill posts the factorization of the public key. There are conveniently pre-published RSA challenges in the form of rsa.com's RSA factoring challenge with multiples of two primes ranging in sizes going up in steps of 10 in decimal digits. It would I think provide best assurance if challenges of both sorts were broken, in that the RSA challenges have been available for some time, and Bill could have been working on RSA 140 for the last 3 years or whatever. So, Bill what size challenge in bits would you like to break first? I'll post one of your desired bit size. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:21:38 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints > I would have thought you would take out a cheap personals section > advertisement and print one hash output and a URL. The hash ouput > would be the hash of the hashes of a chosen set of public key > fingerprints. This doesn't provide the same sort of protection the original full page ad is supposed to provide. That full page ad will be accessible as a referenc a hundred years from now in just about every library in the country. The link to a webpage won't be. Distinctly different security animals. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From wabe at smart.net Sun Jan 18 16:15:24 1998 From: wabe at smart.net (wabe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:15:24 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <002a01bd2487$f3d8d2a0$d78588d1@justice> This is an e-mail which I am intentionally muddling by making it have very long lines and stuff. I plan on saving this too, to analyze later and try to recreate using some sort of silly "delete the misplaced carriage return" later. I'm not going to sign it though. So Bill Payne has the black box to sneakers but he won't publish it for fear the NSA will use it to read his e-mail and also because they pissed him off by trying to silence his critisisms of the way they handled something with Iran or something? I don't read legaleze very well.... -wabe From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 16:24:05 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:24:05 +0800 Subject: eternity economics (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190050.SAA19224@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:40:28 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: eternity economics (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium > Eternity helps here in that it obscures the poster's identity, and > reduces their exposure in that they personally don't have to send as > many messages. Eternity also helps ensure continued availability, at > least while somebody is funding that availability. True enough, the question becomes who does that continued funding help the most? > Releasing the data themselves is problematic. They may not wish to > accept the risk. Eternity provides a way to pay someone else to take > the risks in ensuring availability. Really? What is the difference? Mallet attacks the server itself who has only the resources available from the source, which I believe can assume safely, which is obviously less than the resource set of those who could actualy act upon or impliment the data under discussion. > The users is getting value for money from the eternity servers -- the > eternity server is providing the service of risk taking. Yes, at bargain basement prices that allow, if not even promote, a daddy warbucks to walk in and up the ante above what the source can pay. No, the source payment mechanism does not promote either server honesty or long term existance of controversial data. We're going round and round here, as I said earlier the views are diametricaly opposite. I would suggest we drop this discussion and let us see what happens over the next few years as it is clear that many people are working on different implimentations. Let's let the market decide which works best. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:05 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:26:05 +0800 Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190056.SAA19276@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:15:22 -0600 (CST) > From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) > > Where does this random user come from? > > Why does it matter? As long as she's competent enough to choose good verifiers > and verify that those verifiers verified the code in question, it all works out > in the end. Because whether she is a honest user or one who is intent on subverting the system is relevant and must be taken into account. > We don't. There is no way to operate without *some* trust; I disagree. I believe it is possible to create a system which is secure and provably so, irrespective of something as nebulous as 'trust'. > Might be, but this code has to be more than just understood -- it must be > painstakingly checked for subtle flaws and bugs. Welcome to the world of > adversarial quality control. Been there it's part of what I do for a living, it's fun. > > Which doesn't effect the ability of Mallet to resign that code at the users > > end in order to break the users local security. > > Unless you're exposing a new weakness in the trust model PGP uses, Mallet can't > do that, providing the user has done good key authentication and hasn't listed > one of Mallet's goons as a trusted code-verifier. This is true if Mallet is attacking the key system, it is not strictly true if Mallet is attacking a specific user. > Yup, that's why the user has to check it by hand. Then the Eternity model is doomed to fail. 90%+ of users who might want to use a data haven model don't have a clue as to how it works or how to actualy check it. > Well, if you can't verify it yourself and you can't trust other people to > verify it, my advice is to give up; you cannot be sure of *any* public keys I disagree, though I am not able to prove it at this time. > keys; any sig you check might be signed by one of Mallet's keys. My point exactly. As with Adam, it feels like we are beginning to go around and around with nothing new to add. I would suggest that we drop the issue for the moment and come back to it at a later time with a little more reflection. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 16:30:17 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:30:17 +0800 Subject: Signed document - a thought... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190058.SAA19318@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:06:28 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: Signed document - a thought... > Sounds like you are describing something which is a variant of an > interlock protocol. The idea of an interlock protocol is that you > send out first a hash of what you are intending to publish. > > The MITM has a problem in deciding what to publish, because they have > to publish _a_ hash, but they don't know what it should be of. Exactly. I hadn't heard of the term 'interlock protocol', thanks for the tip. I'll look into it some more. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 18 16:34:18 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:34:18 +0800 Subject: CAD Stego Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119003138.006cc150@pop.pipeline.com> This repeats a suggestion from 1994 about using computer assisted design programs to conceal text or other data: 1. CAD uses vectors to make graphics, including text, and most programs can import a wide variety of data from other formats. 2. Several features can manipulate CAD objects into unrecognizable forms by modifying scale, dimension, orientation, opacity and so on. 3. The scale feature is useful to reduce, say, a text of any length, or any digital object, to the size of a pixel. This pixel can be located, say, under a visible line, or, be made transparent as a "phantom" object. (An engineer "stipples" concrete with microdot exotica and lofts the docs to the Saudis, getting paid ten times the regular fee.) 4. Or, the text can be distorted by scale and dimension to appear to be a line serving another function. 5. It's a snap to encrypt the text and import it into CAD via several programs that do that duty. Then the message could be distorted or hidden as described above, for piggy-backing on an innocent- looking document issued, say, to GSA for replenishing the Blanco Bunker, where it would be opened by the cp insider-sou-chef for de-distorted, decrypted instructions on how to prepare and place the bean. 6. To be sure, the underlying CAD code of the ciphertext could be identified by an astute auto-message-vetter of the EOP and then the CADbreakers would be beckoned to the roachtrap. 7. Big shortcoming: how to securely transmit the location (virtual coordinates) of the hidden message and what modifications need to be reversed for message access. Beware of using 0,0,0 -- a near-universal data point for CAD docs. However, 0,0,2^50 miles might be overlooked if the 3d view is disabled. 8. Medium shortcoming: Full-featured CAD programs are expensive, however, the popular lite versions are cheap and can usually read the pricier output. From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 17:07:35 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:07:35 +0800 Subject: CAD Stego (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190137.TAA19440@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:31:38 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: CAD Stego > This repeats a suggestion from 1994 about using computer > assisted design programs to conceal text or other data: > 3. The scale feature is useful to reduce, say, a text > of any length, or any digital object, to the size of a pixel. Assuming your color palate is deep enough to support the compression. > 4. Or, the text can be distorted by scale and dimension > to appear to be a line serving another function. Don't you think they are going to wonder why *that* line is so varied in color? Or assuming deep color pallettes, why so many colors are selected when only a few dozen are actualy used in the drawing? > Then the message could be distorted or hidden as > described above, for piggy-backing on an innocent- > looking document issued, I suspect they'll wonder why that particular file is so much larger than the other graphics files with the same number of layers. > 7. Big shortcoming: how to securely transmit the location > (virtual coordinates) of the hidden message and what Look for the pixel that has the unique color mapped onto it. > 8. Medium shortcoming: Full-featured CAD programs are > expensive, however, the popular lite versions are cheap > and can usually read the pricier output. And can't handle more than a few dozen colors and limited layering. This suggestion is unworkable in application. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 18 17:08:17 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:08:17 +0800 Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119010440.0072a198@pop.pipeline.com> Jim Choate wrote: >This doesn't provide the same sort of protection the original full page ad >is supposed to provide. That full page ad will be accessible as a reference >a hundred years from now in just about every library in the country. The >link to a webpage won't be. Printed ads are sometimes not archived as widely as news articles, due to the cost of reproduction, distribution and storage. The same is true, though, of personals and other types of throwaways. One possibility is to buy an ad on the NYT Front Page which is often sent as an image around the world separately from the full paper, and on which one can buy a tiny ad for about $800 for two lines of text 32 characters long (ID must be included). That's the rate for a one-timer. Adam, could you reduce the requisite gob to fit 64 characters? Each extra line runs about $300. However, bear in mind that a news article is cheaper and will be archived for eternity (until Asteroid Endall); cheaper, that is, if you can pukedrunk a reviler. From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 17:32:39 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:32:39 +0800 Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190158.TAA19549@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:04:40 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) > Printed ads are sometimes not archived as widely as news articles, due > to the cost of reproduction, distribution and storage. My experience with libraries is that they subscribe to the entire paper. Place it in their archives and then at some time in the future micro-fiche the whole paper. I have never seen a library that picked and chose what got archived in their paper morgue's. I have done research on newspapers going all the way back to the civil war, I have yet to find one that wasn't archived in toto, ads and all. > The same is true, though, of personals and other types of throwaways. True but the point was that the data these short ads point to is *not* archived by the same entity or necessarily any entity. Is your webpage being archived by your local library? I be the New York Times is. > Adam, could you reduce the requisite gob to fit 64 characters? Each extra > line runs about $300. Your going to compress 100 cypherpunks 64-bit keys (I prefer 128-bit) down to 64 characters without data loss? I wanna see *that* compression algorithm. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ulf at fitug.de Sun Jan 18 17:39:19 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:39:19 +0800 Subject: Onion routing Message-ID: <19980119013252.18949@ulf.mali.sub.org> To protect against timing analysis, Onion routing uses encrypted and padded links, and the connection between the user and his local onion router is assumed to be secure. Obviously, padding offers protection against external adversaries only. The onion routers themselves know when an anonymous connection is opened, how much data is transferred, and when it is closed. So in contrast to the mix net (where it is sufficient to use one honest mix in a chain), honest onion routers that are used between two cooperating onion routers do not offer additional protection. Onion routers have a fixed number of neighbours. If the first onion router does not have any honest neighbours, there is no anonymity. Generally, the maximal connected component of honest onion routers forms the anonymity set. Does that mean that every onion router needs to maintain many encrypted links, or is there a more efficient solution? From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 18:02:02 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:02:02 +0800 Subject: NTY compression proposal Message-ID: <199801190230.UAA19688@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, It has been proposed to compress the keys from 100 cypherpunks down to a 64 character add in the NYT. Let's consider the math a moment to determine if this is realizable. Each key will require some sort of identifier, to make it simple lets assume 8 characters to identify the cypherpunks and 8 bytes to represent their key (64-bits). This mean that each line will contain 16 bytes. With a hundred entries that is 1600 bytes or 12800 bits. Now 64 characters of text in a newspaper represents approx. 64 6-bit characters (we can't use a full 8-bit because the paper doesn't normaly support that many characters in normal text). This provides us with 384 bits. The proposal leads to a requirement for an algorithm with an average compression factor of: 12800/384 or 33.33:1 with no data loss. That's a pretty hefty compression factor for average responce. Is there a loss-less algorithm which provides this level? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From sherman at gl.umbc.edu Sun Jan 18 18:07:49 1998 From: sherman at gl.umbc.edu (Dr. Alan Sherman) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:07:49 +0800 Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak on encryption policy Message-ID: The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy Barry Smith Supervisory Special Agent, FBI moderated by journalist Peter Wayner 3:30pm - 5:00pm Friday, March 6, 1998 Lecture Hall V (LOCATION SUBJECT TO CHANGE) University of Maryland, Baltimore County http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on encryption policy. Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce and moderate the event, which is free and open to the public. In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case. Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens. Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute) introduction by Peter Wayner. Following Barry Smith's talk, which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30 minutes. Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in advance by sending email to sherman at cs.umbc.edu Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow signs to UMBC. LH V is on the 100-level of the Engineering Computer Science (ECS) Building, directly behind the University Center. There is a visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to UMBC. Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman at cs.umbc.edu http://www.umbc.edu (410) 455-2666 This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC Intellectual Sports Council Honors College Phi Beta Kappa honors society CMSC Council of Majors IFSM Council of Majors From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 18 18:25:09 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:25:09 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: Adam Back writes: > Dimitri Vulis writes: > > Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of > > crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast > > factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to > > publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well > > be right. > > Bill Payne's claim to having discovered a faster factorization > algorithm than the current state of the art, allows us to invoke the > oft discussed mechanisms for the author to prove this ability without > divulging the algorithm, and then proceed to sell the algorithm to the > highest bidder, whilst minimizing his chances of being killed. ... I believe Bill is genuinely afraid that if he published his algorithm, then he'll be killed. I don't know enough to judge how realistic his fear is. I've been involved in serious discussions of assassinations over smaller amounts of money than is at stake here. He displays great courage by saying anything at all at this point. I also have an extremely high opinion of Bill's (and Adam Back's) technical abiltities. That is, I'd be much less surprised if Bill Payne (or Adam Back) comes up with some truly remarkable breakthrough than someone I've never heard of or someone I heard of and don't have such a high opinion of. Yes, it would be most interesting/impressive if Bill demonstrated his ability to factor using some of the published chalenges. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From wclerke at emirates.net.ae Sun Jan 18 18:29:08 1998 From: wclerke at emirates.net.ae (wayne clerke) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:29:08 +0800 Subject: FCPUNX:Anonymous IRC (was 'Cypherpunks IRC Christmas Eve Party') In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801191015.GAA19793@ns2.emirates.net.ae> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lance Cottrell [mailto:loki at infonex.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1998 5:08 AM > To: wayne clerke; cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: FCPUNX:Anonymous IRC (was 'Cypherpunks IRC Christmas Eve > Party') [...] > >What's the reason behind the policy direction against the use of personal web > >proxies running in a (paid for) shell account? > >Seems like less risk than you already accept anyway. Something I've missed? > > > > System load is the issue in this case. If a proxy becomes publicly known > the load it imposes on the system could quickly become gigantic. In > addition we found that people were setting up proxies on any old port, > sometimes causing all kinds of conflicts. > > Our accounts are priced assuming light personal usage. Running servers on > our systems is negotiable. It seems this was just stated on the list for advertizing purposes. It's not so negotiable that private emails are responded to. > > -Lance > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Lance Cottrell loki at infonex.com > PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. > http://www.infonex.com/~loki/ Mail: Wayne Clerke PGP key id: AEB2546D F/P: D663D11EDA19D74F5032DC7EE001B702 PGP key id: 57AA1C10 F/P: 9926BF8918B7EB3623A7 AFA46572C5B857AA1C10 PGP mail welcome. Voice: +971 506 43 4853 If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 18 18:40:59 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:40:59 +0800 Subject: CAD Stego (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119023728.0070d8d0@pop.pipeline.com> Jim Choate wrote: >This suggestion is unworkable in application. Why the focus on color, the easiest thing to avoid using, or layers, ditto? Superfluous for serious CAD, these dainty decorations from Martha Stewartville. Most messages could be concealed in "hatched" objects, bit-bloated as they are, indistinguishable from the elements used to hatch. All black and white; maybe a dot of red for cashmere dupe. In fact, CAD is so bloated with dumb cad-jockey features, and sleazebag work-monitoring logs, it puts most ordinary programs (even air-boss MS) to shame, and could hide a herd of rustled Mex longhorns as easily as the Bush family hides dryhole oil reserves, without any more trickery than sandpapering new boots to look worn. Anyway, Jim, I gather from your remarks that you've not fiddled for endless low-paid months and years to figure out how to cheat the evil bosses and automatic work-snoop feature, while onion-siphoning the Net for horny fare under guise of urgent file transfer to foam-mouth ne'erpays. Underground (so to speak) swapping of digital work avoidance tips is a huge use of global bandwidth riding on the backs of big fat docs for globular structures for maggoty thugs. (Although not nearly as gigantic as the porn trade stego-supporting Net infrastructre growth -- over 50% of Net traffic and rocketing.) Who knows how much illicit info is riding the porn river in and out of the most secure sanctums of tyrants? From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 18 18:43:38 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:43:38 +0800 Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980119010440.0072a198@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <199801190206.CAA00340@server.eternity.org> John Young writes: > Jim Choate wrote: > >This doesn't provide the same sort of protection the original full page ad > >is supposed to provide. That full page ad will be accessible as a reference > >a hundred years from now in just about every library in the country. The > >link to a webpage won't be. If the keys aren't easily obtainable, the hash of them is no use either, so we are already relying on the availability of other text. If the information was valued people would keep copies and mirrors. They could for example post it to the eternity service if/when a viable service is realised. I viewed it more as a way to strengthen the web of trust rather than an expensive long term paper based web server. I think it would be ok for our purposes to omit a URL, firstly because URLs don't always last that long, and secondly because we want to reference the publication, but aren't really bothered about having the application reference us. > Printed ads are sometimes not archived as widely as news articles, due > to the cost of reproduction, distribution and storage. > > The same is true, though, of personals and other types of throwaways. Oh. Not so good. > One possibility is to buy an ad on the NYT Front Page which is often > sent as an image around the world separately from the full paper, > and on which one can buy a tiny ad for about $800 for two lines of > text 32 characters long (ID must be included). That's the rate for a > one-timer. Well theoretically we could go for 32 characters for a MD5 hash output only. SHA1 would be better at 40 characters. (We could brute force a hash length reduction and maybe claw back 4 characters at an expected cost of 2^32 hash runs). The printed hash could be the output of the hash function run on a text document including the keys which we mirror in various places. We can include any text we want to authenticate in this document, keys, time stamp hash tree outputs, URLs, mailing list addresses, whatever. > Adam, could you reduce the requisite gob to fit 64 characters? Each extra > line runs about $300. We are at 40 characters for an SHA1 output, or maybe only 32 characters with a bit of brute-forcing. What do you mean that you must include ID? Someone must give an email address, or phone number? Should be ok to fit one of those in the remaining 24 - 32 chars. Or a URL. "jya.com" easy. > However, bear in mind that a news article is cheaper and will be > archived for eternity (until Asteroid Endall); cheaper, that is, if > you can pukedrunk a reviler. Doesn't sound news-worthy itself. Adam From schear at lvdi.net Sun Jan 18 19:23:27 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:23:27 +0800 Subject: NTY compression proposal In-Reply-To: <199801190230.UAA19688@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 8:30 PM -0600 1/18/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Hi, > >It has been proposed to compress the keys from 100 cypherpunks down to a 64 >character add in the NYT. Let's consider the math a moment to determine if >this is realizable. > >Each key will require some sort of identifier, to make it simple lets assume >8 characters to identify the cypherpunks and 8 bytes to represent their key >(64-bits). This mean that each line will contain 16 bytes. With a hundred >entries that is 1600 bytes or 12800 bits. > >Now 64 characters of text in a newspaper represents approx. 64 6-bit >characters (we can't use a full 8-bit because the paper doesn't normaly >support that many characters in normal text). This provides us with >384 bits. > >The proposal leads to a requirement for an algorithm with an average >compression factor of: > >12800/384 or 33.33:1 with no data loss. > >That's a pretty hefty compression factor for average responce. > >Is there a loss-less algorithm which provides this level? Compression efficiency depends upon 1) the entropy of the input data, 2) the allowable losses and 3) finding an efficient algorithm to code for that entropy. For example, text rarely compress w/o loss beyond 4-5 to 1 (and 2-3 is more typical) using LZW (the defacto standard algorithm). Images have much more correlation in their data (and therfore can be compressed more readily), but even so lossless compression beyond 3-5 to 1 is uncommon (e.g., TIFF). JPG and other lossy algorithms need no apply. I think I'm on fairly firm ground assuming that key data entropy is very high and therefore little or no compressible is feasible. --Steve From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 19:24:05 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:24:05 +0800 Subject: CAD Stego (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190354.VAA20080@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:37:28 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: CAD Stego (fwd) > Why the focus on color, the easiest thing to avoid using, > or layers, ditto? Superfluous for serious CAD, these > dainty decorations from Martha Stewartville. The reason I addressed them is that they were what you brought up. Those dainty decorations are critical to every industrial use of CAD that I have ever been exposed to or used in an industrial setting. I'll have to disagree with your opinion on their utility. > Most messages could be concealed in "hatched" objects, > bit-bloated as they are, indistinguishable from the elements > used to hatch. All black and white; maybe a dot of red for > cashmere dupe. Ok, let's address hatching from the perspective of use as a means to encrypt data. Let's further use AutoCAD since it is by far the most used in industrial settings. I think you will find that most other CAD programs use one or more of the methods in AutoCAD. AutoCAD offers a standard set of hatching objects via the HATCH and BHATCH commands. In both cases the actual hatch patterns are 1-bit patterns meant to be tiled. The HATCH command itself is normaly used for gross backgrounds and such because it doesn't respect object boundaries. The BHATCH command does respect object boundaries and is used much more in industrial and machine drafting. In both cases the color of both the background and line color must be specified. The hatching pattern is then simply tiled across the appropriate area. It is possible to add other non-standard hatch patterns but again, they are 1-bit deep and tend to be regular so there isn't a lot of room to put data. It is possible to include AutoLisp routines to do such hashing but I fail to see how one would stego encrypted data in source code describing how to draw the pattern. There are two means to store reference to those patterns in a file. The first is simply to include a pointer to a standard table of hash patterns that every copy of the program will understand. I suspect that there isn't much room there for stego. Now if we extend the standard hash table we are required to include those hash patterns in our file and suitable coding to tell the foreign program to include them appropriately. I don't see a lot of room there for stego. The alternate is to include the actual hash pattern in the file specificaly not linked to the hash table, in other words an indpendant object we will manipulate through normal mechanisms. While I will agree that if you could guarantee that Mallet didn't actualy view the file as a graphic but rather as a file via some sort of character editor (eg od -c or od -h as the simplest) there isn't much room for getting caught. However, if you were to bring it up as a graphic and view it you find the actual hash pattern is limited because it can be of only a particular size for the hashing display and handling routines to handle. CAD programs at their basest level understand a limited set of objects; coordinate pairs, sets of such pairs for drawing lines, and color. Other geometric objects (eg circles or hatches) are usualy built up through some sort of algorithmic application of these basic objects. In the better CAD programs those objects are routines that are shared as standard functions in the program or through a cookie-cutter mechanism. The way new functions are added is to add some form of PDL (eg AutoLisp) function. The cookie-cutter mechanism usualy is limited by the 1-bit depth and the limited size of the patterns. Let's look at the mechanism that most CAD and graphics programs use for color manipulation. In very few programs that I have ever come across are the colors of each pixel actualy represented by some depth that allows the full range of colors for every pixel. In general some color map mechanism that takes a limited set of colors (usualy arrayed in a table) and allows the program to select a given color from that table. Such special effects as color cycling are created by writing a program that dynamicaly changes the color stored in each member of that table. This is very fast and allows every pixel for a given color to change in concert instead of the delay of having to go to every pixel and test its color and then change it; very slow. The way that most programs allow more colors than allowed by a given color table is they create some sort of interrupt for each line of the dispaly when the display gets a retrace pulse. When this pulse happens (on a 1024 x 768 it occurs every 1/768 seconds - a long time by computer standards) a routine changes the color map to the one appropriate for that line of the display. Some higher performance displays use a d/a mechanism so that each pixel on the display is addressible. These sorts of displays allow the color map to be changed for each pixel but they are very expensive in hardware and list price, both tend to limit the applicability to commen stego exchange outside a limited group. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 18 19:24:44 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:24:44 +0800 Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119032518.00b1fda4@pop.pipeline.com> Adam Back wrote: >What do you mean that you must include ID? Someone must give an email >address, or phone number? Should be ok to fit one of those in the >remaining 24 - 32 chars. ID once meant name, address and telephone number, now a name, tel num and e-mail is okay (along with "Advt"). The NYT claims it owes this to its readers to show who's not who. The "ads" are called "reader notices" by the NYT, which calls to verify the bona fides of the purchaser. And they will not publish everything requested (no vitriol, darn it). There's vetting but mawky pleas swing the censor, indeed, the vetter seems to boost haywire to keep the mad buying. Is that not a Brit legacy, too? Here's the poop for arrangements (as of 1/96): Reader Notice The New York Times 226 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Vox: 1-800-421-4571 Fax: 201-343-6703 From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 19:37:02 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:37:02 +0800 Subject: NTY compression proposal (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190401.WAA20181@einstein.ssz.com> All editing errors are my own, I re-formatted the original text to better address the points. Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:17:32 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: NTY compression proposal > Compression efficiency depends upon > 1) the entropy of the input data We are looking at selecting 100 64-bit keys out of a set of 2^64, that is not a lot of opportunity there, given a random key generation process, for a lot of commen patterns in the key set. If we don't have a lot of commen patterns in the text we don't get a lot of compression. > 2) the allowable losses In this case we can't afford any loss. > 3) finding an efficient algorithm to code for that entropy. Which if we do the math requires something in the neighborhood of 33:1, for a loss-less algorithm that's a pretty hurky boundary condition. > I think I'm on fairly firm ground assuming that key data entropy is very= > high and therefore little or no compressible is feasible. My point exactly, which would lead us to the conclusion that our requirement of a 33:1 compression factor is not realizable. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 19:40:28 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:40:28 +0800 Subject: Future War on TDL... Message-ID: <199801190408.WAA20234@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Check out Futurewar on The Discovery Channel, it's been playing since 8pm Central. Bruce Sterling appears for a blipvert. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Jan 18 20:34:11 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:34:11 +0800 Subject: ashcroft on encryption Message-ID: <199801190418.UAA19045@netcom16.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 17:51:16 -0500 From: vols-fan at juno.com (R L Johnson) To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: Senator Wants Back Door to Encrypted Data Closed http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/9661.html Senator Wants Back Door to Encrypted Data Closed Reuters 3:15pm 14.Jan.98.PST WASHINGTON - Sounding the opening bell of a renewed battle over encryption policy, Senate Republican John D. Ashcroft has declared he would oppose legislation that would mandate that all software made in the Unites States be equipped with features that would allow government access to all encrypted data. "Americans must be free to communicate privately, without the government listening in," Ashcroft said in a statement Tuesday. "The privacy concerns here are fundamental and call for serious consideration by the Senate." The Missouri Republican said he would hold a hearing next month on the issue in the Senate Judiciary's Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights subcommittee he chairs. Ashcroft's remarks followed a battle last year in Congress over regulation of encryption technology, which scrambles information and renders it unreadable without a password or software "key." Encryption has become an increasingly critical means of securing electronic commerce and communications on the Internet. But the scrambling capability can also be used by criminals to hide their dealings from law enforcement agencies. A bill approved by the Senate Commerce Committee last year would impose strong incentives to promote the use of encryption with a back door to allow covert government decoding of any information. And legislation approved by some committees in the House would go even further, requiring the back door in all products sold in the United States. Ashcroft said he opposed the Senate measure, sponsored by Bob Kerrey, Democrat of Nebraska, and John McCain, Republican of Arizona. Majority Leader Trent Lott asked Ashcroft to "pay special attention" to the issue, Ashcroft said. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email at address or unsubscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** http://www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** ------- End of Forwarded Message From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Jan 18 20:42:16 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:42:16 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801190434.UAA20448@netcom16.netcom.com> > >Dimitri Vulis writes: >> Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of >> crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast >> factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to >> publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well >> be right. I think this ought to be nipped in the bud right now if not true. I've heard rumors on this list about algorithms but attributing it to someone at Sandia is pretty substantial however I think DV's claim above sounds totally bogus. if anyone else can comment please do. I don't so much want to know whether he has discovered an algorithm at this point, only whether someone at Sandia claims to have discovered a fast factoring algorithm. after that-- well, what exactly is "fast"? From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Jan 18 20:44:40 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:44:40 +0800 Subject: movie "good will hunting" Message-ID: <199801190440.UAA20828@netcom16.netcom.com> highly recommend this movie, "good will hunting". excellent script that will leave you startled at times. plot is that a young kid from a very rough background who is a janitor at MIT seems to be a math genius possibly on the level of Ramanujan. reason I am posting here: there's a really great rant by the character at one point as he sits in an office with an NSA rep and a medal-laced general and insults them about a job offer in the agency to work under classified conditions. the NSA rep offers him math research into state of the art theory but requires that the work be classified. I think there is a line about how the NSA has 7 times the budget of the CIA but they don't like to make that well known. (one might say it was sort of a rant on the morality of confidentiality. ) if anyone would care to tape this and post a transcript I think it would be very interesting to other cpunks. its a rare reference to NSA in the popular media. of course not on the level of "sneakers" as far as crypto references, but an interesting snippet nonetheless, and I think that some people here might identify a lot with the protagonist. From alan at clueserver.org Sun Jan 18 21:10:27 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:10:27 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118205744.03638ca0@clueserver.org> At 08:34 PM 1/18/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >I think this ought to be nipped in the bud right now if not true. >I've heard rumors on this list about algorithms but attributing it to >someone at Sandia is pretty substantial however I think DV's claim >above sounds totally bogus. if anyone else can comment please do. >I don't so much want to know whether he has discovered an algorithm >at this point, only whether someone at Sandia claims to have >discovered a fast factoring algorithm. after that-- well, what >exactly is "fast"? Payne's previous claims were examined on one of the other crypto lists a few months ago. (Actually "ripped apart" is a better term.) Wei Dei and a few others examined the mathmatical basis of his "break" of RSA. Turns out that is is not nearly the shortcut claimed. (Actually not a shortcut at all.) Based on that previous experience, I would be very suspect of such a claim from Mr. Payne without any proof. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 21:29:05 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:29:05 +0800 Subject: Interlock Protocol Message-ID: <199801190555.XAA20602@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, The Interlock Protocal (Applied Crypto 2nd. ed., pp. 49) is just exactly what I have been looking for to address the MITM issues in regards the data haven model I have been working on. I had completely forgotten about this technique. I should read AC more often...;) Thanks again for the pointer! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From kent at songbird.com Sun Jan 18 21:37:33 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:37:33 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980118213138.54953@songbird.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 02:53:54PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:02:34 -0800 > > From: Kent Crispin > > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > > > There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in > > any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem > > more robust, as well. > > > > The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is > > free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers > > supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for > > the software to support all this. > > It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment > mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. > I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of > the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance > the enterprise in the first place. You must find the advertising business completely mystifying, then. > Imagine for a moment that a couple of persons come into possession of a set > of documents which would cause considerable political embarassment and legal > difficulties for a head of the local government. > > Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to > anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, > political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the > data. They then have two options, release it themselves and hope for the > best (and hence reap the benefit of any economic benefits that might acrue) > or do nothing with it. You pay to have your data disseminated in a form that you can be later paid -- for example, leave the juciest part of the data in encrypted form, along with a public key through which payment options can be negotiated. [...] > I guess the question boils down to why the individual operator in running > the server in the first place. I assume a priori that the goal of both the > submitter and the operator is to make a reliable income from the users of > the service since there are clearly many more consumers of information than > producers of it. Why on earth do you try to be an ISP, then? You pay for disk drives for other people to store their data, and make it available to the world. The eternity service is actually very similar. Given a protocol such as I described, you could move to Data Haven Island, and charge up front to supply pornographers with an entrance to the eternity service, while John Young could wallow in righteous ego gratification as he provides space for morally important documents by donating his disk space to eternity. You do it for the money, he does it for the buzz -- there are all kinds of ways to get paid. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 18 21:43:19 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:43:19 +0800 Subject: Unofficial transcript of Bernstein hearing published In-Reply-To: <199801190451.UAA07568@toad.com> Message-ID: John Gilmore writes: > John Gilmore > Electronic Frontier Foundation Stay the fuck off the unmoderated cypherpunks mailing list, cocksucker. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 18 21:55:02 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:55:02 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801190434.UAA20448@netcom16.netcom.com> Message-ID: Vlad the E-mailer writes: > I think this ought to be nipped in the bud right now if not true. I think you ought to be killfiled. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 18 21:55:19 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:55:19 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190625.AAA20771@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:31:38 -0800 > From: Kent Crispin > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > You must find the advertising business completely mystifying, then. Not at all. I even manage to use it well enough to make money selling my own services now and again... > You pay to have your data disseminated in a form that you can be later > paid -- for example, leave the juciest part of the data in encrypted > form, along with a public key through which payment options can be > negotiated. Exactly, which means we are left with two results. Either the source forgoes the d-h completely, since they could dissiminate their data through a normal anon remailer and usenet (for example) completely eliminating the whole point of the d-h and the consequential payments - this reduces their overhead considerably. Or they share the income through the d-h operator. Now if the source has two halves of a clue to rub together their share will include whatever money they paid the d-h operator in the first place - thus eliminating the need for the source to have paid in the first place. Either way the source ends up with the net effect they don't pay the d-h operator for their services - the end user does. In only one case is there a economic reason for the d-h to exist. Now if the goal of a d-h operator is to make some income which model would you choose? From the source's perspective the d-h model makes sense because it places two (not one) layer of anonymity between them and Mallet. As a source, which model would you choose? Either way you look at it, the end result is the end user pays the bills. > Why on earth do you try to be an ISP, then? Why on earth are you assuming that is what I do? While I have sold dedicated and intermittent dial-ups they in general have not been to the general public and my customer base is not one that comes from general advertising. At no point has it ever been a significant portion of my income in any case. As a matter of fact I haven't advertised in any public forums. Don't know where you get your data about me from but you really should go to the horses mouth instead of some jackass. Your data would be much more accurate. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ott0matic at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 22:26:25 1998 From: ott0matic at hotmail.com (Otto Matic) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:26:25 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology Message-ID: <19980119060838.26648.qmail@hotmail.com> Cross posted to the "Highly Imaginative Technology List" HIT-list at asisem.org >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:14:32 -0500 >From: Nathan Russell >Reply-to: frussell at frontiernet.net >To: HIT-list at asisem.org >Subject: Re: HIT: Fwd: (Fwd) Re: Nanotechnology > >Otto Matic wrote: >> >> >Orinally posted to the cypherpunks list cypherpunks at cyberpass.net. >> > >> >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >> >Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:45:36 -0500 >> >From: ghio at temp0181.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) >> >Subject: Re: Nanotechnology >> >To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >> >Reply-to: ghio at temp0181.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Matthew Ghio Wrote to the Cypherpunks: <<>> >> >So roughly 8 months just to build one copy, rather than to achieve >> >world domination. :) >> > >> >Still, unless I'm way off on these estimates, it's within the right >> >ballpark. If the cubes were 1 cm, you could make copies in less >> >than a day, assuming it didn't get too hot at that power level. >> >Just figure out how you're going to feed the electricity and raw >> >materials into all those little things... > >You could direct the molecules the same way electron beams are steered >in a TV > > > >This sort of replicator is not what is usually >considered > >nanotechnology, but if it actually worked, such a >device >could become > >quite popular. Nathan Russell wrote to the HIT-List Yeah... what about making microchips, LSD or diamonds - all of which have very high value/mass ratios. Or bio warfare agents - maybe in cryogenic state to be warmed up when finished. What about more complicated lifeforms - like people. It would be hard to figure out what to use for currancy, though - in Star Trek, Latinum is assumed, according to one book, to be dependent for its properties on a huge number of molecular legs resting against each other rather like the fins of an artichoke steamer - can't be replicated because unless the molecule is complete each leg creates an unequal force on its neighbors and they flip into a non-latinum position. Not that there wouldn't be positive elements - medicine would be very cheap. In fact, a pound - or maybe a mole - of anything with value would cost no more than its component elements, plus labor. What about little self- 'replicating' robots that go into a landfill and produce an army of themselves, turning excess elements into something useful. BTW, could living things be replicated or would the structure be too complex? Intelligence supposebly depends on electrons moving in tiny protein quantom channels in the brain in a completely unprodictable way, telpathy is the electrons becoming quantom linked. That could be hard to replicate. -Nathan ___END FORWARDED___ Thought you cypher punks would like to see this. Otto ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From waynerad at oz.net Sun Jan 18 23:55:18 1998 From: waynerad at oz.net (Wayne Radinsky) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:55:18 +0800 Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <01BD246B.A7D1FF60@sense-sea-pm3-27.oz.net> > dilemmas do not prove a concept does not exist. That's correct. My point is natural selection can explain why the dilemma exists. > there are pretty clear cut cases Natural selection also explains why there are "clear cut" cases, since it assumes our "moral sense" is just our mental accounting of reciprocal altruism: what we've done for others and what (we think) others owe us. > natural selection does however support the idea of altruism. natural > selection does not require each individual seek survival. various aspects > of the genetic code that lead to survival of the species are what are > truly favored. a breed of animals that does nothing but try to kill > each other off leads to a situation where each individual is maximizing > the odds of its own DNA propagating, no? but how long would such a > species survive? and extra credit, to what "animal" am I actually > alluding to here? You are correct: the object is survival of the gene and this can be at odds with survival of an individual. This applies to all animals and even "non" animals; so I have no way of knowing which "animal" you are alluding to. > natural selection is relevant among species that have no intelligence > or intellectual control over their own destiny. it is only relevant to > humans insofar as we wish to behave like animals. Our "intelligence" itself evolved, presumably, because it enhanced genetic fitness in the evolutionary past. Intelligence exists to increase, rather than overcome, inclusice genetic fitness. >>So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity >>. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own >>inclusive fitness. > > false, even by your own reasoning, because a scientists DNA does not > necessarily lead to more scientist DNA. sons and daughters of scientists > may be anything they wish to be in a free country. All that is required is that the offspring can survive and reproduce. Scientists use their jobs as "scientists" to fund survival and reproduction. > natural selection among animals. and a pretty scary mind that would > consider us on that level. I agree there are some vague parallels for > human development. but humans do not have children in the mindless way > that animals breed, The use of birth control causes the trait, "conscious desire to have children" (and not use birth control) to be selected. It was not required before, so natural selection gave more weight to sex drive and love of offspring. > nor hopefully do they live their lives according > only to evolutionary instincts, The whole premise of evolutionary psychology is that we live according to evolutionary instincts, it's just that those instincts (and our behavior) are very complex, and that "consciousness" and "free will" are illusions. > but of course letters like yours tend > to make me wonder, and I'm being deliberately ambiguous here by what > I mean by that Of course most people are bothered by the idea that copying genes is the only thing their life (and all lives) are about. Life is totally meaningless if you follow Darwin's logic to its conclusion, and the alternative is religion and belief in the afterlife. I personally believe someday we will see a synthesis of the two, but at the present, which to believe is a philosophical decision. ---------- From: Vladimir Z. Nuri[SMTP:vznuri at netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 12:52 PM To: Wayne Radinsky Cc: 'Blanc'; 'cypherpunks at cyberpass.net'; 'tcmay at got.net'; 'vznuri at netcom5.netcom.com'; vznuri at netcom11.netcom.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality philosophers have struggled with what is moral since the beginning of civilization. at least they are struggling with the question. each new civilization and era gives a new answer to the question, "what is morality", and hopefully each is more evolved than the last, unless humanity is regressing. "what is morality" is obviously something that cannot be settled in cyberspace, it hasn't even been settled by great writers, and there are only mediocre and borderline insane minds in cyberspace >The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist al >all in any absolute sense, at least as far as science is concerned. If you dec >lare, for example, that "murder" is "wrong" you are always left with dilemmas, >such as whether soldiers who kill during a war are doing something "wrong". dilemmas do not prove a concept does not exist. there are pretty clear cut cases, and less well clear cut cases. those that have difficulty with the concept of morality will tend to focus on the fuzzy cases and conclude that the whole exercise is a waste of time. >According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including scientis >ts, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. "Fit" means >that an organism is well adapted to it's environment, so "maximizing inclusive >genetic fitness" means having the maximum number of offspring which are themsel >ves fit. natural selection does however support the idea of altruism. natural selection does not require each individual seek survival. various aspects of the genetic code that lead to survival of the species are what are truly favored. a breed of animals that does nothing but try to kill each other off leads to a situation where each individual is maximizing the odds of its own DNA propagating, no? but how long would such a species survive? and extra credit, to what "animal" am I actually alluding to here? >The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral people, i >n general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary psychologists call re >ciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both parties benefit if they are >in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most situations are non-zero-sum and the >benefits are so great, everyone has a stake in promoting themselves as a good r >eciprocal altruist, in other words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is > how natural selection explains the existence of the concept of "morality". natural selection is relevant among species that have no intelligence or intellectual control over their own destiny. it is only relevant to humans insofar as we wish to behave like animals. >So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity >. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own inclus >ive fitness. false, even by your own reasoning, because a scientists DNA does not necessarily lead to more scientist DNA. sons and daughters of scientists may be anything they wish to be in a free country. >The only way out is to believe in the afterlife, and religion, and that life ha >s meaning beyond the genes and material world. Doing so doesn't make moral dile >mmas go away, and you never know, people may just be believing such things for >the benefit of genes, after all natural selection has no real concern for "trut >h". natural selection among animals. and a pretty scary mind that would consider us on that level. I agree there are some vague parallels for human development. but humans do not have children in the mindless way that animals breed, nor hopefully do they live their lives according only to evolutionary instincts, but of course letters like yours tend to make me wonder, and I'm being deliberately ambiguous here by what I mean by that From kent at songbird.com Mon Jan 19 00:29:34 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:29:34 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801190625.AAA20771@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980119001935.11065@songbird.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 1998 at 12:25:02AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:31:38 -0800 > > From: Kent Crispin > > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > > > You must find the advertising business completely mystifying, then. > > Not at all. I even manage to use it well enough to make money selling my > own services now and again... > > > You pay to have your data disseminated in a form that you can be later > > paid -- for example, leave the juciest part of the data in encrypted > > form, along with a public key through which payment options can be > > negotiated. > > Exactly, which means we are left with two results. Either the source forgoes > the d-h completely, since they could dissiminate their data through a normal > anon remailer and usenet (for example) completely eliminating the whole > point of the d-h and the consequential payments - this reduces their > overhead considerably. Or they share the income through the d-h operator. > Now if the source has two halves of a clue to rub together their share will > include whatever money they paid the d-h operator in the first place - thus > eliminating the need for the source to have paid in the first place. Either > way the source ends up with the net effect they don't pay the d-h operator > for their services - the end user does. In only one case is there a economic > reason for the d-h to exist. Now if the goal of a d-h operator is to make > some income which model would you choose? From the source's perspective the > d-h model makes sense because it places two (not one) layer of anonymity > between them and Mallet. As a source, which model would you choose? > > Either way you look at it, the end result is the end user pays the bills. > > > Why on earth do you try to be an ISP, then? > > Why on earth are you assuming that is what I do? While I have sold dedicated > and intermittent dial-ups they in general have not been to the general > public and my customer base is not one that comes from general advertising. > At no point has it ever been a significant portion of my income in any case. > As a matter of fact I haven't advertised in any public forums. Don't know > where you get your data about me from but you really should go to the horses > mouth instead of some jackass. Your data would be much more accurate. Actually, the only data I have is your comments on CP over the past year or so. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Mon Jan 19 01:11:08 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:11:08 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? In-Reply-To: <199801141241.MAA00398@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Adam Back wrote: > Ross Anderson [...] > > channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? > > Some ideas: [...] > - become a spammer, or employ some spammers. Spammers use the hit and > run approach with disposable accounts; with sufficient availability > of accounts, and the economic incentive they seem to flourish in > spite of intense displeasure of recipients. This is a bad idear, firstly it is moraly and ethicly wrong. Spammers take resoursers without providing anything of value in return. Worce then this it is too nocitable. For a covert channel we wont something that peaple don't worry about and don't pay much attention to. Peaple tend to subject spam to alot of anylises. However it may be possable to incorparte subliminal infomation inside NoCeM posts. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMMC0aQK0ynCmdStAQF1cAP6A+E+/myX2rYojosizVzrQ+rzwwiIOvqH oc1fOytw/x1T3yVKOx7hzSq+GAXfZiPQx1QRfy2Lpa8CIPdw/gLDutRdqcI4o22y Kx/9FD4mCzojQRN8Pen7aewxSE1FnMLfG/E6FxdJhWKQ3P8xuLUemrmw5xNR3QiC Km5ozQ3g9bw= =nCIS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Jan 19 01:25:45 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:25:45 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA Message-ID: <199801190915.KAA15874@basement.replay.com> Dimitri Vulis writes: > Adam Back writes: > > Dimitri Vulis writes: > > > Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of > > > crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast > > > factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to > > > publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well > > > be right. > > > > Bill Payne's claim to having discovered a faster factorization > > algorithm than the current state of the art, allows us to invoke the > > oft discussed mechanisms for the author to prove this ability without > > divulging the algorithm, and then proceed to sell the algorithm to the > > highest bidder, whilst minimizing his chances of being killed. > ... > I believe Bill is genuinely afraid that if he published his algorithm, > then he'll be killed. I don't know enough to judge how realistic his > fear is. I've been involved in serious discussions of assassinations > over smaller amounts of money than is at stake here. He displays great > courage by saying anything at all at this point. Oh, please. Payne's so-called faster factorization algorithm was discussed on this list May 13. See the archives under the thread title "Public Key Break Paper". The algorithm is total garbage. Payne is obviously a nut case who is setting himself up for a contempt of court charge. From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Mon Jan 19 01:33:53 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:33:53 +0800 Subject: Onion routing In-Reply-To: <19980119013252.18949@ulf.mali.sub.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Ulf [iso-8859-1] M�ller wrote: > Does that mean that every onion router needs to maintain many > encrypted links, or is there a more efficient solution? To get any meaningful security, the user has to control the first OR. Furthermore, it must be impossible to discern indiviual messages, meaning connections being opened or closed. Which requires Pipenet, possibly the worst bandwidth burner ever invented. :-) -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Mon Jan 19 02:01:46 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:01:46 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980116045037.031a4b40@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Robert A. Costner wrote: [...] > The remailer network is not designed > to be robust or fault tolerant. There is no error notification to the > user. [...] How would this be implermented. If you are able to trace backwards so you know who to notify then you don't have anonminity. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMMPA6QK0ynCmdStAQG8qgP8ClMmPfeGkEJ9Fydfb5i3n1ARuKRV+nET cLIt9GfU9vlrashs+2Shx/c8bz67+rl0eOAdgNBbDlW8Fe1Qzb9EfRCn24f+ZL0K +7PyBc+2YTfWOTrmEGihNuLnKUtFUNRrjyC0+PHWDCTOZx+W9LzAxKsbw8TzPWAF zMG5ooTbM+E= =2cCi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Mon Jan 19 02:54:31 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:54:31 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801191041.CAA21251@sirius.infonex.com> Timothy C. May sits at his terminal dressed in five-inch stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, a gold-lame mini-skirt, a purple halter with girdle underneath to keep in his flabby gut, a Fredericks of Hollywood padded bra also underneath the halter, a cheap Naomi Sims pink afro wig, waiting to yank his crank whenever a black man responds to one of his inane rants. \ o/\_ Timothy C. May <\__,\ '\, | From rdl at mit.edu Mon Jan 19 03:11:30 1998 From: rdl at mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:11:30 +0800 Subject: RSA hardware In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980119015700.0073e558@netcom10.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801191102.GAA01363@the-great-machine.mit.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Lucky Green: > The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to use a dedicated > hardware accelerator. I have seen $3,000 hardware accelerators that are > outperformed by a PP200. The nCipher device is excellent. 100 1024 bit RSA > signing a minute for $5,000. How much would be a nice multi-processor Alpha > that does about the same number of signings? Or just a stack 10 of Pentiums? > > Before buying an accelerator, make sure to do the math. Eric Young posted > timings for various common CPU's a while back. Keep in mind that there are metrics other than just keys per second for comparison. Often, hardware devices are certified RED/BLACK isolation devices, TEMPEST certified, tamper-resistant, etc. They are also usually easier to maintain than software systems on GP hardware. Also, the major consumers of such devices, the government/military, spend a *lot* more on hardware/software/user maintenance than any cypherpunk. Their computers are usually TEMPEST certified, etc., so their curve is a lot higher up. Assuming efficient markets, the reason so few of these devices are sold outside the military is that they're overpriced except for those in the same situation as the military. though :) I've been thinking of buying a wicked-fast FPGA prototyping board and making my own coprocessor. There are some really nice gate arrays, and David Honig has some fairly wonderful plans for how to use them for things like Blowfish, etc. I've mainly concentrated on high-speed symmetric ciphers, but they'd be applicable to RSA/DH, I believe. For one blowfish implementation, the limiting factor (assuming key setup can be done efficiently) is the PCI bus, I think. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl at mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNMMyzKwefxtEUY69AQGruwgAgsJTym5TsaFLVGgBXQQpUYwd8Ar2lquU SFM9F1LYLTQjcBIlzh9h3cQdfE2sOkpjENmVGqUvPhyZLwRAC5eWfHL8H/y0giIW 9Y+1xYY1pY3t/O7w5WgYDwye1fzbL5KDz4XEYKX830LWjShfAZhQxahzLbZd+qnd Z6KpjSnylTb9YSp+i5rafgk/i8GnjqFdv5925reexzFBhy/FQi3xwweJWxeRWa+o tNX4G/D7W2r1Lq4Z6Yxbk3dTDddif26UTE12M8EENhhlr/6VCO0zGI59VePUC55w ZeqgUDGviqe/il1EUMIKUfNdSYBJ0Ur5T4TL2lVYDPrZ6q4KjnHPjA== =9ejF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Jan 19 04:33:52 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:33:52 +0800 Subject: RSA hardware In-Reply-To: <199801191102.GAA01363@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801191243.HAA28745@users.invweb.net> From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Jan 19 04:52:03 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:52:03 +0800 Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak on encryption policy Message-ID: <199801191304.IAA28944@users.invweb.net> Anyone going to this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following message is forwarded to you by "William H. Geiger III" (listed as the From user of this message). The original sender (see the header, below) was "Dr. Alan Sherman" and has been set as the "Reply-To" field of this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" >Newsgroups: sci.crypt >Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak on encryption policy >Date: 19 Jan 1998 01:54:28 -0000 >Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus >Lines: 55 >Message-ID: <69ubok$lkn at news.umbc.edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: news.umbc.edu >NNTP-Posting-User: sherman >Path: edison.dotstar.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.qis.net!news.umbc.edu!not-for-mail The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy Barry Smith Supervisory Special Agent, FBI moderated by journalist Peter Wayner 3:30pm - 5:00pm Friday, March 6, 1998 Lecture Hall V (LOCATION SUBJECT TO CHANGE) University of Maryland, Baltimore County http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on encryption policy. Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce and moderate the event, which is free and open to the public. In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case. Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens. Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute) introduction by Peter Wayner. Following Barry Smith's talk, which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30 minutes. Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in advance by sending email to sherman at cs.umbc.edu Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow signs to UMBC. LH V is on the 100-level of the Engineering Computer Science (ECS) Building, directly behind the University Center. There is a visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to UMBC. Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman at cs.umbc.edu http://www.umbc.edu (410) 455-2666 This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC Intellectual Sports Council Honors College Phi Beta Kappa honors society CMSC Council of Majors IFSM Council of Majors ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: One man's Windows are another man's walls. From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 19 05:03:06 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:03:06 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119125838.0074591c@pop.pipeline.com> Anonymous wrote: >Oh, please. Payne's so-called faster factorization algorithm was >discussed on this list May 13. See the archives under the thread title >"Public Key Break Paper". The algorithm is total garbage. Payne is >obviously a nut case who is setting himself up for a contempt of court >charge. We posted the notice about Payne's RSA paper. There's an archive of his (and fellow Sandian Art Morales') NSA suit and links to his papers : http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm Perhaps Bill's a nut case, and if so, he's probably a bellweather of other disaffected researchers in classified work who are being trashed for refusing to continue Cold War violations beyond the original conditions for signing secrecy agreements, and who are being ostracized by those who want the perks to continue. What folks like Payne are going to do with what they learned about what the USG has been up to is a good question. And what the USG will do to them if they start to tell is more so. That's what Payne's NSA suit is about, and it may be more consequential than the all-too-sane Bernstein, Karn and Junger suits. That will depend on what Payne chooses to reveal in spite of secrecy agreements. We may never know what Bill knows about faulty cryptography if DOE settles with him and Morales. Alternatively, he confesses to a fear of flying, for the reasons Dimitri states, based on what he says he knows of the insane accusations and actions of the TLAs when their own comfort and security is threatened by an ex-insider. From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU Mon Jan 19 07:05:53 1998 From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:05:53 +0800 Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801191450.GAA23358@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera at juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config at nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config at anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster at remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias at alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer at replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid at juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer at bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer at anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer at cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer at neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez at juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman at cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From hackworth at vipul.net Mon Jan 19 07:17:04 1998 From: hackworth at vipul.net (John Hackworth) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:17:04 +0800 Subject: religious discrimination alive and well in NEW Zealand (fwd) Message-ID: <199801191955.TAA00182@fountainhead.net> Hmm. freedom at freedom-press.co.nz wrote: > this is not a spam > you may not be interested in this religion but the powers to > be are attacking a basic human right. So whats new.? > read how a new zealand couple are being prosecuted for their > religious beliefs > http://www.freedom-press.co.nz > Read the kiwi gemstone file,you may be suprised > just email us for a copy.put" kiwi "in the suject line > or join are mailing list for the latest in govt conspiracies > just type" join" in the suject line > The truth shall set you free (perhaps) From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jan 19 08:01:43 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:01:43 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FYI: Jefferson Club: "A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and Perils of Encryption" Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:58:21 -0800 To: mac crypto list From: Vinnie Moscaritolo Subject: Fwd: FYI: Jefferson Club: "A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and Perils of Encryption" Sender: Precedence: Bulk >>The Jefferson Club is proud to present: >>David Friedman, Professor of Law at Santa Clara University >>to speak on >>"A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and Perils of Encryption" >> >>Luncheon >>Wednesday, February 25th >>12:00 noon >>Ming's Villa in Palo Alto >> >>Reserve your place at http://www.ipser.com/jeffersonclub. >> >>A major theme in discussions of the influence of technology on society has >>been the computer as a threat to privacy. It now appears that the truth is >>precisely opposite. Three technologies associated with computers, public key >>encryption, networking, and virtual reality, are in the process of giving us >>a level of privacy never known before. The U.S. government is currently >>intervening in an attempt, not to protect privacy, but to prevent it. >> >>Professor Friedman will explain the technologies and demonstrate that current >>developments, if they continue, will produce a world of strong privacy, a >>world >>in which large parts of our lives are technologically protected from the >>observation of others. He will discuss the likely consequences, >>attractive and >>unattractive, of that change and provide a brief account of attempts by >>the U.S. >>government to prevent or control the rise of privacy. >> >>For a preview of the talk, see "A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and >>Perils of >>Encryption" >>(http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Academic/Strong_Privacy/Strong_Privacy.html) >>Come prepared with questions for Professor Friedman. >> >>For more information or to reserve your place, visit: >>http://www.ipser.com/jeffersonclub >> > > >_ Vinnie Moscaritolo http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042 "You can get a lot more with a smile and a gun then a smile, alone." - Al Capone --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 19 08:54:24 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:54:24 +0800 Subject: More Software Controls Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119165256.00b68668@pop.pipeline.com> Denise Caruso reports today in the NYT on upcoming copyright legislation that would prohibit circumventing any copyright protection on digital works. Quote: Many products on the market would qualify for circumvention devices. These include software that allows systems managers to gain access to computers when users lose their passwords and any device used to test the strength of computer security -- products that cannot be tested without trying to break protection technology. There's also a report on The WWW Consortium's vote a few days ago to include the PICS standard for Web infrastructure and the vote's import for censorship. The report notes that technologists are now making decisions about public policy once dominated by lawyers, and defending the self-serving practice much the same: it's for the public good. http://www.nytimes.com From sunder at sundernet.com Mon Jan 19 10:46:02 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:46:02 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: > How would this be implermented. If you are able to trace backwards so you > know who to notify then you don't have anonminity. It could be done if the remailer software is rewritten. When you send a message, include instructions for the last remailer to write a message to either usenet or a web page on the same net as the remailer with a sender selected id. Have these pooled and posted every day/week, etc... If your mail bounces it you'll know by reading a page off a server, or a message off usenet... i.e. for the last one in the chain ::Request bounce "xyzzy12345" Dont post anything other than the bounce strings to the world. (i.e. don't post the intended recipient's name, etc...) =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From ulf at fitug.de Mon Jan 19 10:57:34 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:57:34 +0800 Subject: Onion routing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9801191721.AA52458@public.uni-hamburg.de> > Furthermore, it must be impossible to discern indiviual messages, meaning > connections being opened or closed. Which requires Pipenet, possibly the > worst bandwidth burner ever invented. :-) With Onion Routing, eavesdroppers cannot see connections being opened and closed, but all the Onion Routers do. How is it done in Pipenet? From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Tue Jan 20 03:12:58 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:12:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! 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The idea is to have a dozen or more fairly cheap mix machines in several apartments or offices connected with high-speed links, running protocols not feasible over more expensive T1 and T3 sorts of links between physically distant locations. Think of these concentrations as Local Areas Mixes, or LAMs. BACKGROUND Early in the history of Cypherpunks, one of our schemes was to drastically increase the number of nodes in the mix network by having many machines at one physical site talking to each other at high speed over local networks. A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical addresses, would be "problematic.") (This is still not a bad idea....lots of additional mixing entropy can be gained this way, plus increased resistance against compromise of a single remailer. Plus lots of headaches for any Scientologists or Christian Crusaders or B'nai Brithers trying to shut down speech they don't like.) Obviously, a list of machine names and public keys would have to be kept current (modulo the frequency with which machines go down). (BTW, how do Mixmaster users actually decide which remaielers are reliable enough to use? Or have the delays they wish? Do they use R. Levien's regular report, or hit his URL?) REMAILER MATH MODEL IS STILL LACKING I don't believe anyone has publically analyzed "remailer math" in the detail we would've expected by now. That is, analyzed the security (against traceability) of having N nodes for M users communicating with remailers having some operational model (number of messages in mix, "latency" (!), etc.). We have commented for at least several years that this would make a nice thesis for someone. I would've expected that this would by now be a respectable research topic for "Crypto" papers. (Much of the "analysis" of remailers has been of the seat-of-the-pants type, with K mesages in a mix and X bounces allgegedly leading to K ^ X messages to be followed. But this analysis neglects correlation analysis of sent/received messages, the pitiful number of messages flowing in the overall network at any given time, and a bunch of other more subtle effects. If Alice and Bob are using a remailer network to communicate, and if an adversary has access to the packets flowing through the remailer network--a big if--then statisical and probabalistic analysis can perhaps reduce the entropies greatly. A better model is needed.) Eric Hughes has expressed similar concerns, and presented a few tantalizing details of how traceability can be extracted from mix networks using Bayesian types of correlation analyses. (Alice and Bob being identified as communicants through the patterns of sent and received packets, regardless of the mixing between them.) My reason for mentioning this here is that I think a more detailed analysis of mix networks and the entropy and decorrelation seen would show the advantages of having drastically more nodes, with various PipeNet and BlackNet sorts of protocols running. MAKING THE BEST USE OF BANDWIDTH One of the motivations for the idea of having a lot of small machines at some site is this: to reduce the network bandwidths needed for PipeNet sorts of approaches. Imagine this scenario. Concrete numbers are picked for easier visualization. A set of offices in Berkeley has 20 low-cost machines running in 5 offices, the offices being owned or leased by several organizations or individuals, all legally separated. The 20 machines are all running either fixed bandwidth (a la PipeNet) connections, or connections which never physically leave the building and which can be inspected for taps. Additional shielding of the cables might be a nice touch....optical fibers an even nicer touch, as the tapping methods I know of require physical access to the fiber, to do a tunnelling tap, or an actual break-and-splice. Ideally, all or some of the boxes should be TEMPEST-protected, and/or tamper-resistant. I believe a sub-$500 cheap PC--with a 150 MHz Pentium--could be "hardened" with $200 worth of additional copper or mu metal sheeting, placement inside larger metal boxes, whatever. Or 10 such machines could cheaply be placed in a locked Faraday cage, with a good lock on the door and video cameras and such used for surveillance against black bag jobs. (*) In other words, this network of mixes could be made very secure against nearly all attackers. "All attackers" is a dangerous description, but I think the costs of attacking the network undetectably could be made to cost a prohibitive amount.... (* Though I tend to dislike PR stunts, imagine a "WebCam" aimed continuously at this physical site, this Faraday cage, with a clock inside ticking away, and maybe even a mechanical clock with clearly moving parts, all so that an attacker could not easily spoof the image by replacing the camera scene. This could generate interesting PR, as people "check the security" of the site, and also get some education.) MORE SUCH SUB-NETWORKS IN OTHER COUNTRIES Now imagine the same sort of network of low-cost machines running in, say, Amsterdam. With a fairly low bandwith connection to the Berkeley network. (That is, not a leased line, just _regular_ usage of a normal link. For example, a 100K packet attempted to be sent every 30 seconds or so, round the clock. Exact details are not import...the idea being that external watchers cannot detect patterns in the packet usage, a la PipeNet.) There is, of course, no reason packets cannot also be bounced out to other mixes, as selected by the user. And the sites in Berkeley and Amsterdam, and elsewhere, may of course add their own bounces (as we all know, this is always acceptable (*), and does not require the original sender to be involved). (* modulo reliability issues--if additional links are added, they must not degrade overall realiability) The original sender, Alice, of course will have complete say over the basic routing, as it is she who selects the routing and constructs the chain of encryptions. The idea of conglomerating mix nodes into physically close spaces is not to take away any of her freedom to choose, but only to solve the bandwidth and surveillance problems, by allowing her to bounce her message amongst 20 machines in one site, bounce it to some remailers she chooses, bounce it around to some sites she likes, and so on. CHALLENGES FOR ATTACKERS An attacker seeking to shut down the remailer sites will have a formidable challenge: -- court orders applicable to one apartment or office presumably will not apply to other offices or addresses. (Drug dealers often have stored drugs in one apartment while dealing them from another, using a "rat line" to move the drugs between apartments. Last I heard, search warrants cannot cover whatever sites raiders decide to pick....this may've changed with the recent Supreme Court. In any case, a "cyberspace rat line" can include wires snaking all throughout a large building, making any search warrant focussed on a specific address or person not applicable to sites in other parts of the building. Or in other buildings completely (but still connected with high-bandwidth lines). -- the machines in various locations should not have their locations noted. (For example, the "Medusa mix" should not be identified, at least not in general, as being upstairs in the Citizens for a Constitutional Process offices. There is no "need to know" such things, and this makes "propagation of search warrants" all the more problematic. ) -- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain advantages, analogous completely to a message pool or Blacknet topology. (This would make propagation of subpoenas vastly more difficult.) -- again, in a physically close space, such high-bandwith methods are easier to implement than in a physically spread out space (where bandwidth costs a lot more). RICO? On the other hand, while ordinary subpoenas might be difficult to spread across all of the machines, the clustering of many machines in one region might be seen as a "conspiracy" to do something the Authorities don't like, and thus be a RICO (Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, of course) violation. It might be the Mother of all Steve Jackson Games Raids, but one could imagine Unhappy Authorities seizing _all_ machines. (There are aspects of the ECPA which may mitigate against this, though. A la the Alcor case in Riverside, CA, 10 years ago.) NEW TOPOLOGIES AND BETTER USE OF BANDWIDTH Purists will point out that there is nothing that a network of N machines in some physically close location cannot do that those same N machines scattered in multiple legal and national jurisdictions cannot do just as well. Well, except for a few things: A. Bandwidth. Local machines can be connected with PipeNet sorts of connections, with vast amounts of cheap bandwidth. B. Security against Tampering or Surveillance. While it may be possible for NSA packet sniffers at major routing points to sniff mix traffic (recall the work of Shimomura on sniffers, and the increasing concentration of packets at the half dozen biggest network routing nodes, like MAE West), local LANs are resistant to such sniffings. And to physical taps. (These dangers will be lessened if we ever get to where all machine to machine traffic is routinely encrypted, a la SWAN, but we're not there yet by any strech.) C. New Topologies. Message pools, Linda-like "seas," and PipeNet are all more feasible on such LAMs. As with the brain, which as multiple levels of organization, an overall mix network consisting of subnetworks and clusterings probably offers a richer set of behaviors than just one overall loosely-couple set of mix nodes. (I haven't mentioned this, but a LAM could be used for some very high-bandwith mixing, like audio telephony and even video....modulo the Alice-Bob correlation attacks I mentioned earlier.) Anyway, I ought to stop for now. There are a lot more things to mention, and issues to resolve. But I think we need to once again consider such strategies. Having some very high bandwidth "local mix networks" opens up some interesting possibilities. Running PipeNet and BlackNet sorts of systems locally, for example. Making issuance and serving of subpoenas very problematic, for another example. Your thoughts are welcome. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Jan 19 12:02:31 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:02:31 +0800 Subject: RICO & Seizures (Was: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801192011.PAA32294@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/19/98 at 11:13 AM, Tim May said: >RICO? >On the other hand, while ordinary subpoenas might be difficult to spread >across all of the machines, the clustering of many machines in one region >might be seen as a "conspiracy" to do something the Authorities don't >like, and thus be a RICO (Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, >of course) violation. It might be the Mother of all Steve Jackson Games >Raids, but one could imagine Unhappy Authorities seizing _all_ machines. >(There are aspects of the ECPA which may mitigate against this, though. A >la the Alcor case in Riverside, CA, 10 years ago.) Awhile back I recall reading something about about equipment confication and that the governemnt was prohibited from conficating the equipment of a publisher (ie the FED's can't walk in and shut down the NYT by taking their printing presses). Can anyone confirm that such a protection exsists? References to any relevent court cases would be appreciated. Also any information reguarding on what qualifications one must meet to qualify for such protection. Perhaps we could set up a CP/Mixmaster newsletter and at least keep the SOB's from stealing the equipment. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: He who laughs last uses OS/2. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMOhtY9Co1n+aLhhAQF4eAQAgSi9+MTLfq5nFjc+Yz5FzVh+dpL5I5Hv //EetqhieKyB3o2TzR7B8t1GyJcNKpDYp1N9n+bQ8yjYzffR2M+3p3p3kVPFpQ5S Zx4L6mEpn9rUoKNDz4YgcXbrpMzenWw20Rxg4XywmtDAoPReK75JxGskJZQUpqSc ykDrukOiQBg= =hO3/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From garte6493 at compuserve.com Mon Jan 19 12:02:35 1998 From: garte6493 at compuserve.com (garte6493 at compuserve.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:02:35 +0800 Subject: This is so Incredible! Message-ID: <20992090_14372405> Work SMART......not hard! You can easily make hundreds a week just passing out this 800 number with your code number. Many are making thousands a week. This is positively the easiest money that I have ever made! The company does the selling for you, closes the deal, and sends you $100 for every sale PLUS monthly residual income. I have done a lot of programs but believe me, NOTHING comes close to this! Don't miss this opportunity! Call now! 1-800-811-2141 Code #44737 . 8 - 10 Mon-Sat (CST) (This is HOT! If it is busy, keep trying). In Canada call 1-800-588-9786 Code #44737 Shirley maceywW at hotmail.com The NUMBER #1 homebased business for 2 years in a row! ************************************************************************ To be removed from this list, please send remove requests to remove at remove.org. ************************************************************************ *************************************************************************** No Reply. Because of illegal acts by internet terrorists upon bulk friendly ISPs (mail bombs, hackers, ping attacks, etc) we regret that we cannot supply a valid reply address. *************************************************************************** From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Mon Jan 19 12:26:29 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:26:29 +0800 Subject: Congress' *real* job... Message-ID: <19980119202001.27861.qmail@nym.alias.net> >Congress' real job should not be passing laws providing funding, prohibiting >activities, etc. It *should* be in creating and passing Constitutional >amendments per the 10th that re-define the responsibilities and duties of >the federal government within the changing millieu of the current society. >This way the people via their state representatives have a much closer input >into what the feds are actualy enpowered to do and to who. Be careful what you wish for. This Congress is far more likely to pass amendments nullifying the 2nd, the 1st, the 6th, the 4th, and others. And they'll probably rewrite the 13th to read "no involuntary servitude...unless we say so." From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 12:32:34 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:32:34 +0800 Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801191148.LAA00798@server.eternity.org> Dimitri Vulis writes: > I believe Bill [Payne] is genuinely afraid that if he published his > algorithm, then he'll be killed. I don't know enough to judge how > realistic his fear is. There are a few other scenarios which suggest he may be at risk even if he doesn't publish. Firstly if we argue on the basis that he does have a fast algorithm: - if the NSA thinks they already know the algorithm he has discovered, they may kill him anyway to prevent disclosure to others - the NSA may kidnap him, inject him with various truth drugs, and generally torture the information from him, and then kill him Insurance in the form of a disclosure procedure in the event of his premature death will reduce his risk of being killed. Secondly if we argue on the basis that Bill doesn't have a fast factoring algorithm, or is mistaken about the complexity of his algorith: - if the NSA thinks his claim credible they may again kidnap him and attempt to extract this algorithm from him. They may then kill him to prevent him talking about them torturing him if he reveals an algorithm, or appears not to have an algorithm He appears to be in greater risk if falsely claiming he has a fast algorithm if his claim appears credible to the NSA -- his insurance in the form of a fall back public disclosure procedure in event of his premature death no longer helps him. In general it seems generally a dangerous claim to make. > I've been involved in serious discussions of assassinations over > smaller amounts of money than is at stake here. He displays great > courage by saying anything at all at this point. If it is true, it is a big deal indeed. > Yes, it would be most interesting/impressive if Bill demonstrated his > ability to factor using some of the published chalenges. Another target Bill might be amused to factor if we can obtain it is the NSA's public key embedded in lotus notes implementations. Should fit in with his interest in showing incompetence on the part of the NSA. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Forwarded message: > Date: 19 Jan 1998 20:20:01 -0000 > From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer > Subject: Congress' *real* job... > Be careful what you wish for. This Congress is far more likely to pass > amendments nullifying the 2nd, the 1st, the 6th, the 4th, and others. And > they'll probably rewrite the 13th to read "no involuntary servitude...unless > we say so." For Congress to pass a single amendment they must get 3/4 of the states to ratify the amendment. That's the check that keeps Congress from going nuts and gives the individual states a measure of equality. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 19 12:46:34 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:46:34 +0800 Subject: Amending the Constitution Message-ID: <199801192116.PAA23175@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, It is of some import to note that the legaly amend the Constitution takes considerably more than the 51% that those happy go lucky anarchists are so fond of quoting...it actualy takes 75%. ARTICLE V. [Constitution: how amended; proviso.] The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions of the three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which shall be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's equal Suffrage in the Senate. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From kjones at vvm.com Mon Jan 19 13:16:56 1998 From: kjones at vvm.com (Kay Jones) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:16:56 +0800 Subject: Eternity service?? Message-ID: <34C3C17A.F464F403@vvm.com> Hello....listen, I was referred to you by a friend of mine who is helping me with a page I would like to create. I am a mom of three, aspiring Doula and EMT, and an advocate for natural pregnancy, childbirth, extended breastfeeding and attachment parenting. Here is why I am writing to you: Recently I was to coach a good friend of mine through her labor and birth. She very much wanted a natural birth and had written a very specific birth plan and had planned on signing waivers to release the hospital and docs from any legal action if anything went wrong. When we went to the hospital, the midwife on duty threw down her birth plan and told her that her child would be delivered on HER terms (the midwife's) or not at all. She literally forced me to leave my friend, and then had her physically restrained to insert IV's and apply monitors which my friend had NOT consented to, and in fact had specifically said she didn't want. Then, later, during the actual birth, the midwife let my friend's vagina tear horribly instead of giving her an episiotomy as she said "You want a natural birth...do it yourself" Then, my friends new baby was taken from her, and she didn't get to see the baby for three hours after the birth. The baby was subjected to tests and proceedures that my friend had specifically requested not be done, and the baby was given a bottle in spite of the fact that my friend wanted to nurse her baby. Anyway, my intent is to open a page to expose these so called 'medical professionals' for what they are.....butchers! What happened to my friend was pure and simple assault, but she has not much recourse, as this happened in a military hospital. Her husband, like mine is in the Army, and they are not very high ranking soldiers, so the risk of reprocussions (sp?) to them is very high if she takes action. I know that is the norm for most army hospitals, and I would like to open a *safe* arena for women to read and be warned of these people, by NAME and rank, and location, and also a *safe* place for them to post their horror stories with warnings also. Many people are afraid of being sued...I could care less tho my husband is a bit paranoid... do you see what I am trying to say here? Can you help me? Please let me know as soon as possible :) Thanks! -- Kay Jones KayEC/KayTIS/KayKDZ/KeWEL/KayOfBoz http://www.vvm.com/~kjones *Peace On Earth Begins At Birth* ICQ: 2935300 From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 19 13:39:37 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:39:37 +0800 Subject: Congress' *real* job... In-Reply-To: <19980119202001.27861.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: At 12:20 PM -0800 1/19/98, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: >Be careful what you wish for. This Congress is far more likely to pass >amendments nullifying the 2nd, the 1st, the 6th, the 4th, and others. And >they'll probably rewrite the 13th to read "no involuntary servitude...unless >we say so." Indeed. The last thing we need is a "Constitutional Convention." Very few liberties would survive a vote by the herd and their designated top steers. We already have growing restrictions on the First ("hate speech"), an almost complete gutting of the Second (bans on guns, licensing, confiscations), and the Fourth has become a joke (try reciting the 4th to the ninja raiders bursting into your bedroom at 4 a.m., with no knocks and no presentation of a search warrant). I guess we're still protected from troops being quartered in our homes, though. (But look at the emergency powers FEMA has acquired and notice that hotels, offices, and even private homes may in fact be comandeered in an increasing number of situations.) As for the 13th, if "the draft" (forced conscription of young men to be cannon fodder, to help rebuild inner cities burned down by residents, to "be all that they can be") is not involuntary servitude, what is? And if the forcible placement of persons with certain genetic backgrounds into concentration camps during World War II was not involuntary servitude, what is? And if the sequestration of 18 innocent citizens in a special hotel for the 10 months of a bullshit trial is not involuntary servitude, what is? (The jurors each did about the same time O.J. did, and collectivelly, 15 times more.) And if the imprisonment of some for eating an unapproved food item or for the growing of an unapproved crop is not involuntary servitude, what is? (And I don't necessarily mean drugs, although marijuana was of course grown and consumed by Jefferson, Washington, etc. I could also be referring to the various farm laws which "regulate" who can grow peanuts, who can grow rice, and how much, etc. "Grow a peanut, go to jail.") And if working for the government for the first six months of every year ("tax freedom day" is now in June) is not involuntary servitude, what is? With perhaps locally good intentions for each of these various laws, this creaping featurism of American government has vitiated the original Bill of Rights. Not completely, but getting there. The Founders and their friends in the colonies would be shocked to learn that half of all earnings go to fund various government boondoggles, that the "King's Men" are free to raid homes in pre-dawn hours without presenting the occupants with search warrants, that various Emergency Powers have been acquired (though not constitutionally) by the Executive to seize control of transportation, communication, production, and distribution systems, and that persons of certain ethnic makeup can be imprisoned for several years without due process. They would call for the nuking of Washington as the first step in the New American Revolution. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From schneier at counterpane.com Mon Jan 19 13:47:07 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:47:07 +0800 Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801152113.NAA15458@comsec.com> Message-ID: <199801192139.PAA16260@mixer.visi.com> > >LONDON (AP) -- It's a briefcase even James Bond could love. > >Britain's more adventurous Cabinet ministers soon will be spiriting >laptop computers inside their signature ``Red Box'' briefcases, >complete with fingerprint recognition systems and silent alarms. > [.....] > >``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a >terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to >open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, >and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' This is INSANE. How could someone be so stupid as to announce such a feature in a newspaper. I guess this means that if a terrorist sees a Cabinet minister with such a computer, he had better shoot to kill. The whole point of a feature like this is that its existence is secret. Someone is NOT paying attention. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 http://www.counterpane.com From sunder at sundernet.com Mon Jan 19 14:06:35 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:06:35 +0800 Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980119032518.00b1fda4@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, John Young wrote: > There's vetting but mawky pleas swing > the censor, indeed, the vetter seems to boost haywire to keep the > mad buying. Is that not a Brit legacy, too? Erm, my universal gibberish translator is back for repairs from heavy damage by Toto's weird postings... 'could you translate the above paragraph for those of us in English speaking lands? =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From honig at otc.net Mon Jan 19 14:35:43 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:35:43 +0800 Subject: Eternity service?? In-Reply-To: <34C3C17A.F464F403@vvm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980119142119.007d3610@206.40.207.40> At 03:11 PM 1/19/98 -0600, Kay Jones wrote: >I am writing to you: Recently I was to coach a good friend of mine >through her labor and birth. She very much wanted a natural birth and >had written a very specific birth plan and had planned on signing >waivers to release the hospital and docs from any legal action if Wait 18 years, then her child can sue the hospital. >anything went wrong. When we went to the hospital, the midwife on duty >threw down her birth plan and told her that her child would be delivered >on HER terms (the midwife's) or not at all. She literally forced me to >leave my friend, and then had her physically restrained to insert IV's Not very assertive, are you folks? >and apply monitors which my friend had NOT consented to, and in fact had >specifically said she didn't want. Then, later, during the actual birth, >the midwife let my friend's vagina tear horribly instead of giving her >an episiotomy as she said "You want a natural birth...do it yourself" >Then, my friends new baby was taken from her, and she didn't get to see >the baby for three hours after the birth. The baby was subjected to >tests and proceedures that my friend had specifically requested not be >done, and the baby was given a bottle in spite of the fact that my >friend wanted to nurse her baby. Anyway, my intent is to open a page to >expose these so called 'medical professionals' for what they >are.....butchers! What happened to my friend was pure and simple >assault, but she has not much recourse, as this happened in a military >hospital. You go to a military organization and expect otherwise? Meat is meat baby. >Her husband, like mine is in the Army, and they are not very >high ranking soldiers, so the risk of reprocussions (sp?) to them is >very high if she takes action. Kiss hubby's career goodbye Ms. Jones, you've already complained too much. I know that is the norm for most army >hospitals, and I would like to open a *safe* arena for women to read and >be warned of these people, by NAME and rank, and location, and also a >*safe* place for them to post their horror stories with warnings also. >Many people are afraid of being sued...I could care less tho my husband >is a bit paranoid... do you see what I am trying to say here? Can you >help me? Please let me know as soon as possible :) >Thanks! > You need to look into anonymous posting more than Eternity services, if you are afraid of personal retribution. And you need a lawyer to advise on libel law. But I don't believe you're subject to the UCMJ as a wife. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 19 14:38:46 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:38:46 +0800 Subject: 'Twas brillig, and the vetter seems to boost haywire In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980119032518.00b1fda4@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: At 2:04 PM -0800 1/19/98, Ray Arachelian wrote: >On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, John Young wrote: > >> There's vetting but mawky pleas swing >> the censor, indeed, the vetter seems to boost haywire to keep the >> mad buying. Is that not a Brit legacy, too? > >Erm, my universal gibberish translator is back for repairs from heavy >damage by Toto's weird postings... 'could you translate the above >paragraph for those of us in English speaking lands? I used Alta Vista's Translation Service at http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? and selected the "Youngspeak to English" option, with this slightly more comprehensible result: "There vetting, but mawky pretexts swing the censor indeed cousins seem to load haywire in order to hold the furious purchase. Isn't that a legacy Brit, also?" I think it is saying something about how our British cousins get furious when then have to buy censored legacy applications and the slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From eb at comsec.com Mon Jan 19 14:42:42 1998 From: eb at comsec.com (Eric Blossom) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:42:42 +0800 Subject: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801192155.NAA00465@comsec.com> > Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. > > Actually, this is only true for extremely carefully shielded military > receivers and not for normal radios. Every receiver contains a local > oscillator to bring the signal down to intermediate frequency (IF), which > is emitting EM waves itself. In addition, the IF signal is emitted > as well. > > As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence > (MI5) used vans and planes already in the 1950s to detect spys while > they received radio communication messages from Moscow and to protocol, > which frequency bands the embassies were monitoring (operation RAFTER). > Efficient receiver detection is an active process: You send out short > bursts of a wideband jamming signal and try to find the downtransformed > intermediate frequency equivalent of your burst in the compromising > emanations of the receiver. This way, you get not only the location of > the receiver, but also the precise frequency to which it is tuned. > > Locating radio receivers within a radius of many hundred meters this way > was already state of the art in the spook community over 40 years ago, > so you can safely assume that with digital signal processing, the > performance parameters of modern systems have been increased > significantly. Sending out spread-spectrum style pseudo-noise signals > in the active probing bursts could give you in modern receiver detectors > a considerable signal gain. > > Markus Hi, I talked to some RF guys about the RAFTER attack about a year ago. Their opinion was that since modern receivers have GaAs FET mixers, they don't leak the LO or IF out the antenna like the old fashioned inductor based mixers did. This should be trivial to confirm with a spectrum analyzer. Eric From ichudov at Algebra.COM Mon Jan 19 14:46:29 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:46:29 +0800 Subject: Distributed stock trading system Message-ID: <199801192238.QAA03188@manifold.algebra.com> I would like to hear your feedback on a project that I have just thought about. It is called a Distributed Asset Trading Network. It consists of Traders and Nodes. They trade Products (asset classes). A Product may be an Intel share, or a bond, or an option on S&P 500, or whatever. Who and how defines what the Product unit is is beyond the scope of this document. Each Node in the Network is a clearing corporation that is supposed to be a legitimate operation. To cover possible liabilities, Nodes can post [ecash] bonds to each other. They are ultimately liable for all counterparty defaults in Trades. Traders are clients of Nodes. They have Accounts. To buy or sell Products, they place Orders to these Nodes. The Nodes broadcast the Orders and collect Potential Trades (opposing orders that have not been filled yet). Nodes may have Policies that require Traders to meet certain requirements, in order to avoid potential liability. (ie, to sell stock, you have to have it on your Account, or have enough equity to cover the short sale liabilities, etc). The receiving Node has a short period of time (seconds) to decide which counterparties and which amounts to choose. The sending Node acquires Locks on the submitted Potential Trades and is liable to produce the Asset (or Cash) if the positive response comes back within that time period. This architecture can create a trading environment that is a) independent of borders and national laws, at least to some extent and b) eliminates certain forms of arbitrage, and c) more resistant to denial of service attacks (??), and possibly eliminates the bid-ask spreads and a whole lot of highly-paid intermediaries, and c) potentially increases privacy for transactions. The technical issues that are open, at the moment, are 1) clock synchronization, 2) the need for a central authority to clear liability issues and 3) potential denial of service attacks through acquiring too many locks (again, maybe with the proper liability agreement, it is not an issue). I think that such a system is not all that impossible to develop. Whether it will, or can be made to, work in the technical and social environment that we have is another question. I am curious if something like this has aleready been implemented. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_ | @___oo ( )_ /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= ) ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if ) ) /^\/ _) (_ ) ) _ / / _) ( ) /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ it's made of chocolate. ) < > |(,,) )__) ( ) || / \)___)\ (_ __) | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___== \______(_______;;; __;;; From schear at lvdi.net Mon Jan 19 15:04:30 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:04:30 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >When people can buy a T1 to their house for �2,000/yr instead of >�20,000, we will stand a better chance. A few U.S. ISPs are offering xDSL at $600/mo. My local cable network, in Las Vegas, is offering bi-directinal T1 rates, with a guaranteed LOS, at $600/mo. Once these technologies get rolling, in a year ot two, rates are likely to drop below $200/mo. --Steve From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 19 15:11:55 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:11:55 +0800 Subject: www.video-collage.com - another CDR node? Message-ID: <199801192335.RAA23901@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Is the www.video-collage.com a new node on the remailer network? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From emc at wire.insync.net Mon Jan 19 15:35:25 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:35:25 +0800 Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192139.PAA16260@mixer.visi.com> Message-ID: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> Bruce Schneier writes: > >``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a > >terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to > >open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, > >and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' > This is INSANE. How could someone be so stupid as to announce > such a feature in a newspaper. I guess this means that if a > terrorist sees a Cabinet minister with such a computer, he had > better shoot to kill. > The whole point of a feature like this is that its existence is secret. > Someone is NOT paying attention. I don't think the machine is going to do any silent alarming in the grounded Faraday cage with the 10 severed fingers lying on a plate next to it. Anyone know what they actually use to sector encrypt the file system on these things? It would be somewhat amusing if it were snake oil based. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From schear at lvdi.net Mon Jan 19 16:57:15 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:57:15 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: [cpj:265] COS] In-Reply-To: <34774099.4F5E@dev.null> Message-ID: At 8:39 PM -0700 11/22/97, Tim May wrote: >At 12:06 PM -0700 11/22/97, TruthMonger wrote: >>Have you heard of a Mac compatible OS called "COS" from Omega in East >>Germany? >>I just found an article about it in Japanese Mac mag and that says Omega >>announced the OS 11/13 at German MacWorldExpo. >... >>There's an interview with Omega's president in the article saying the OS >>runs on 030, 040 & PowerPC without MacROM inside. So bunch of Mac clones >>and CHRP mother boards from Taiwan etc may find a way.... > Any reason someone couldn't sell a generic (e.g., CHRP-like) PowerPC platform which can has at switch-selectable space for at least two OS boot SRAMs? Ship it with Linux, but let the customer load whatever boot and OS they want. There, of course, would be nothing the OEM could do if someone anonymously posted a MacOS compatible boot on a .warez group which purchasers subsequently loaded along with their separately purchased copy of MacOS 8-) --Steve From kjones at vvm.com Mon Jan 19 18:46:48 1998 From: kjones at vvm.com (Kay Jones) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:46:48 +0800 Subject: Eternity service?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980119142119.007d3610@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <34C40DE1.F78B500E@vvm.com> David Honig wrote: > Wait 18 years, then her child can sue the hospital. My point is to prevent this from happening again....I know I can't change the world, but if I can help just one person from having this happen to them, I will have done my job.... > > > > > Not very assertive, are you folks? It wasn't my job to be assertive...and what does a private do when a major tells him what the deal is?? > > > > > Kiss hubby's career goodbye Ms. Jones, you've already complained too much. I don't believe that... > > > You need to look into anonymous posting more than Eternity services, > if you are afraid of personal retribution. And you need a lawyer to > advise on libel law. But I don't believe you're subject to the UCMJ as > a wife. Thanks for your help anyway...useless as it may be.. thanks at least for the prompt if fucked reply. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David Honig Orbit Technology > honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu > > "How do you know you are not being deceived?" > ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, > Directorate of Intelligence, CIA > http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm -- Kay Jones KayEC/KayTIS/KayKDZ/KeWEL/KayOfBoz http://www.vvm.com/~kjones *Peace On Earth Begins At Birth* ICQ: 2935300 From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 19 19:10:04 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:10:04 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980118151314.006b7d88@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:04 PM 1/18/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >The point is that the system can *always* be spammed. You *don't* charge the >source of data a million dollars to put it on your server. It's gotta be >source cheap or else it isn't worth their time to bother with it. If you >*really* want to promote such servers what you need is a model that allows >submitters free access *and* a share in the subscribers fees. Then everyone >wins. > >If the source has something they know is worth god awful sums of money they >aren't going to submit it to the data haven anyway, they'll set their own >haven up and reap the benefits directly. There is an economic issue here >that is at parity with the technical issues. Here is a way for an individual to make money using the eternity service: 1: Users are charged $/MB/month to store data in the service. 2: Users are charged $/MB for downloading data from the service. 3: The source of a data item receives a portion of the download fees collected for that item as an anonymous payment, or else the money could be applied toward keeping the data on the service (the option of choice for the really paranoid among us). At 12:02 PM 1/18/98 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote: >In a little more detail: you have say 1 megabyte of data that you >would like to be stored in the Eternity Service. The overhead of >storage in eternity is a factor of two, and you would like 10 times >redundancy. So you contact the Eternity Service Software provider, and >get the software. You then configure the software to supply 20 >megabytes of your disk space to the system. This allows you to >supply 1 meg of your own data. > >The 20 megs will of course not store *your* data -- it will store >other eternity data. The service takes your data and spreads it >across 10 other sites, whose locations are unknown and unknowable to >you. In return, you are storing eternity data for other users. If >your disk space becomes unavailable your file disappears from the >service. (Of course, someone else could pick it up and store it, if >it was valuable information.) The location of the data should be determined by some sort of random process, and it should move frequently. Disallowing one to store one's own data reduces the number possible locations for the data, and also requires a mechanism for matching the source of the data to the owner of each node- both of which are Really Bad Karma. >This is a self-financing model. Every writer to the eternity service >pays for their own bandwidth and disk space. The eternity service >provider is financed by maintaining the software that all the writers >use -- client/server software will have to run on many different >platforms, some protocols may be better than others, and it might be >worth buying your eternity software from a high-reputation >("trustworthy") provider. One could also construct a fee schedule where a higher rate would buy a higher redundancy level for your data. >Note that this doesn't mean that data suppliers can't be paid for >providing data -- but that is a completely separable problem that can >have many different solutions. > >I believe this approach does solve the financing part. But it does >make the rest a *very* complicated problem -- you have a dynamic, >self-configuring network of data sources and sinks, with all the >configuration data encrypted along with the data. Ideally, of course, >the data would be migrating constantly. > >Retrieval would probably be very slow -- basically email speeds, or >worse. In fact, perhaps the data would be retrieved by having the >eternity service use the remailer network to send it... The eternity service should be its own remailer network--one that transfers data as well as e-mail. The nodes should have constant encrypted cover traffic between them. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMKMicJF0kXqpw3MEQJ/sACfQpkRqLflEPdmr4NpsP/8w7WEmvIAnjvv LSkxnt7fdHwkCk37vMWf/q1A =P6/D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Eric Cordian wrote: > Bruce Schneier writes: > > > >``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a > > >terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to > > >open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, > > >and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' > > > This is INSANE. How could someone be so stupid as to announce > > such a feature in a newspaper. I guess this means that if a > > terrorist sees a Cabinet minister with such a computer, he had > > better shoot to kill. > > > The whole point of a feature like this is that its existence is secret. > > Someone is NOT paying attention. > > I don't think the machine is going to do any silent alarming in the > grounded Faraday cage with the 10 severed fingers lying on a plate next to > it. This reminds me of a conversation I had at a recent biometrics exhibition. One company exhibited hand shape scanners, such as those installed at San Francisco International Airport to control access to "sensitive" parts of the airport. [Do not pass security, go straight the "clean" area]. I asked the exhibitor if the scanner would grant access to a hand not attached to the body. At first, the exhibitor paled and replied that if a severed hand was part of my thread model (not using these terms), then my "facility had larger problems than could be solved by access control". The booth staff, visibly shaken by my insinuation that there are people that might severe somebody's had to gain access to an environment, kept following me with their eyes as I walked away from the exhibit. Seems these amateurs hadn't considered that somebody getting ready to blow up an airplane with 250 passengers on board just might have relatively few qualms about detaching the hand of one Filipino airport janitor on his way to work. To their credit, the EyeDentify booth staff (the world's sole manufacturer of retinal scanners), knew what they were doing. Their system checks for blood flow, etc. A removed eye or a cadaver won't do. Now there is a company that understands security. [Disclaimer: I have no connection whatsoever to either manufacturer]. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jan 19 20:11:36 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:11:36 +0800 Subject: Ocean going cities Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:32:41 -0500 From: To: technomads at UCSD.EDU Subject: Ocean going cities Just read in an architecture rag called "Metropolis" about floating cities for the rich! I guess being a nomad is becoming chic. Anyways, the two ships are ResidenSea 958ft long with 250 1100-3200 sq ft homes ranging from $1.2-$4.3 million each. driving range putting green 2 pools, helipad gardens, retractable marina. According to the mag, this one looks like it will get built with construction to start soon. Freedom Ship 4320 ft 25 stories for 65,000 people starting at $93,000 includes library school bank hotel hospital, light manufacturing and 2 landing strips!!! How Stephensonesque. I'll be very depressed if the commercial folks do this before the hackers. Now, I wonder where I put that decommissioned aircraft carrier? :-) Thad Starner MIT Media Laboratory Wearable Computing Project --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From marketing at shanesworld.com Tue Jan 20 12:19:09 1998 From: marketing at shanesworld.com (marketing at shanesworld.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:19:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lets Chat Message-ID: <199801202019.MAA17564@toad.com> ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// This message is intended for adult webmasters only. 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Love, SHANE From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 19 20:20:05 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:20:05 +0800 Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: At 7:53 PM -0800 1/19/98, Lucky Green wrote: >This reminds me of a conversation I had at a recent biometrics exhibition. >One company exhibited hand shape scanners, such as those installed at San >Francisco International Airport to control access to "sensitive" parts of >the airport. [Do not pass security, go straight the "clean" area]. > >I asked the exhibitor if the scanner would grant access to a hand not >attached to the body. At first, the exhibitor paled and replied that if a >severed hand was part of my thread model (not using these terms), then my >"facility had larger problems than could be solved by access control". The >booth staff, visibly shaken by my insinuation that there are people that >might severe somebody's had to gain access to an environment, kept >following me with their eyes as I walked away from the exhibit. > >Seems these amateurs hadn't considered that somebody getting ready to blow >up an airplane with 250 passengers on board just might have relatively few >qualms about detaching the hand of one Filipino airport janitor on his way >to work. Well, the droids they hire to man their booths are Happy People. No wonder they missed the point of Oklahoma City. >To their credit, the EyeDentify booth staff (the world's sole manufacturer >of retinal scanners), knew what they were doing. Their system checks for >blood flow, etc. A removed eye or a cadaver won't do. Now there is a >company that understands security. Biometric on removed eyeballs was old hat in "Thunderball," as I was approaching adulthood. That the Disneyfied world fails to understand realitities is hardly surprising. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From Adults-Best at our.net Tue Jan 20 13:25:05 1998 From: Adults-Best at our.net (Adults-Best at our.net) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:25:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: ADULT TRAFFIC TRADE - FREE GIFTS!!! 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MISTY1 which was designed by Matsui-san looks so good. I > believe an algorithm which is described in RFC is not a `pet' one. > > > ----MISTY1 INTERNET DRAFT---- > INTERNET-DRAFT H. Ohta > Expires in six months M. Matsui > Mitsubishi Electric Corporation > December 1997 > > > A Description of the MISTY1 Encryption Algorithm > > > > > --- > Hironobu SUZUKI Independent Software Consultant > E-Mail: hironobu at h2np.suginami.tokyo.jp > URL://www.pp.iij4u.or.jp/~h2np To learn some English, chop-chop. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From bd1011 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 19 21:38:23 1998 From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:38:23 +0800 Subject: RC1 and RC3 ?? Message-ID: <19980120052835.13042.qmail@hotmail.com> Why doesn't it have RC1 and RC3 though there are RC2, RC4 and RC5 of RSADSI RC series ? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cg at miaow.com Mon Jan 19 21:58:24 1998 From: cg at miaow.com (Christian Goetze) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:58:24 +0800 Subject: Ocean going cities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980119214101.00875100@shell5.ba.best.com> http://freedomshipcity/ Seems like a pipe dream - and wouldn't stand any serious test of war - how are you going to feed 60.000 people without outside help? I'd still be excited if they build it... At 04:23 PM 1/19/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Just read in an architecture rag called "Metropolis" about floating >cities for the rich! I guess being a nomad is becoming chic. > >Anyways, the two ships are > >ResidenSea 958ft long with 250 1100-3200 sq ft homes ranging from >$1.2-$4.3 million each. driving range putting green 2 pools, helipad >gardens, retractable marina. According to the mag, this one looks like it >will get built with construction to start soon. > >Freedom Ship 4320 ft 25 stories for 65,000 people starting at >$93,000 includes library school bank hotel hospital, light >manufacturing and 2 landing strips!!! How Stephensonesque. > >I'll be very depressed if the commercial folks do this before the >hackers. Now, I wonder where I put that decommissioned aircraft >carrier? :-) > > Thad Starner > MIT Media Laboratory > Wearable Computing Project > >--- end forwarded text > > > >----------------- >Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox >e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' >The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ >Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: > > > > -- cg From sherman at cs.umbc.edu Mon Jan 19 22:38:58 1998 From: sherman at cs.umbc.edu (Dr. Alan Sherman) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:38:58 +0800 Subject: $50 encryption policy contest Message-ID: $50 www Contest I will pay $50 to the best www page created by 12noon EST, February 15, 1998, meeting the enclosed specifications. In short, the page must have a form through which anyone may enter a question, which will be automatically entered onto a list of submitted questions displayed on another page. I will use the winning entry to collect questions for the upcoming March 6 talk on encryption policy by Barry Smith (FBI). How to enter: email a url of your entry to sherman at cs.umbc.edu include the phrase "Barry Smith Contest Entry" in the subject header. All URL's for all entries will be listed from http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto2.shtml Rules: 1. The page must work from the CMSC computing environment, but initial judging will take place on the designer's server. 2. Anyone in the world may enter. 3. If no one submits an adequate entry by February 15, a $20 prize will be awarded to the best entry that meets a restricted set of specifications. In this case, the contest will be extended for one more week, with a reduced prize of $30 for the best full entry received by 12noon EST, February 22, 1998. 4. Entries will be judged on the basis of satisfying the specifications, robustness, creativity, ease of use, and visual appeal. 5. Group work is allowed and encouraged. 6. I will be the sole final judge of the winner. Specifications: A. $20 Restricted Specifications 1. The form must include entries for a restricted-length question (at most 500 ascii characters), an email address, and optionally a name. 2. The form must include a submit button, which when clicked, will automatically append the question to a list of questions on a separate www page. Each displayed question must include the author's email and name (if provided). B. $50 Full Specifications In addition to the $20 specifications, the forum must also meet the following sp[ecifications: 3. (**important**) The page of submitted questions must have a means by which anyone can score the quality of the question on a scale of 1 to 5 (say, by clicking on the appropriate score button), with 5 being the highest score. For each question, its median score must be displayed. Questions must be listed in order of decreasing median scores. 4. The form must have an entry for optional URLs. These URLs must be posted with the question in such a way that they are active. 5. There must be an entry for sender status (selection from a list of options, such as cypherpunk, NSA employee, UMBC student, other student, government employee, faculty, industrial engineer, ...) 6. (optional) For each question, also list the number of votes entered for each score in addition to the median score. 7. (optional) Reject any question containing a vulgar word. 8. (optional) Feel free to add other appropriate constructive functionality. From 65982672 at hk.super.net Tue Jan 20 14:57:13 1998 From: 65982672 at hk.super.net (65982672 at hk.super.net) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:57:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Get More Orders For Anything You Sell Message-ID: <4563463463573564652463423465> EMAIL USA Mass E-Mail Discount Program *************************************************** Advertise your Business or Website , with our Mass e-mail program. Fast * Affordable * Very Effective EMail USA will send out your message to a vast amount of potential customers in one day. Even if your website is in the top 10 you can't get the traffic that you would as if you targeted everyone that sees your ad. Why is our bulk e-mail program so effective? Our bulk e-mail service provides businesses & individuals the most inexpensive, and most effective way to reach millions of people over the internet. 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From die at die.com Mon Jan 19 22:58:51 1998 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:58:51 +0800 Subject: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980120015007.64178@die.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 1998 at 01:55:55PM -0800, Eric Blossom wrote: > > Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > > > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. > > > > Actually, this is only true for extremely carefully shielded military > > receivers and not for normal radios. Every receiver contains a local > > oscillator to bring the signal down to intermediate frequency (IF), which > > is emitting EM waves itself. In addition, the IF signal is emitted > > as well. > > > > As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence > > (MI5) used vans and planes already in the 1950s to detect spys while > > they received radio communication messages from Moscow and to protocol, > > which frequency bands the embassies were monitoring (operation RAFTER). > > Efficient receiver detection is an active process: You send out short > > bursts of a wideband jamming signal and try to find the downtransformed > > intermediate frequency equivalent of your burst in the compromising > > emanations of the receiver. This way, you get not only the location of > > the receiver, but also the precise frequency to which it is tuned. > > > > Locating radio receivers within a radius of many hundred meters this way > > was already state of the art in the spook community over 40 years ago, > > so you can safely assume that with digital signal processing, the > > performance parameters of modern systems have been increased > > significantly. Sending out spread-spectrum style pseudo-noise signals > > in the active probing bursts could give you in modern receiver detectors > > a considerable signal gain. > > > > Markus > > Hi, > > I talked to some RF guys about the RAFTER attack about a year ago. > Their opinion was that since modern receivers have GaAs FET mixers, > they don't leak the LO or IF out the antenna like the old fashioned > inductor based mixers did. > > This should be trivial to confirm with a spectrum analyzer. > > Eric This varies a great deal. Generally cheap vhf/uhf scanners and the like radiate quite a bit of energy and can be easily seen on a spectrum analyzer at hundreds of feet (with no special effort). A good bit of energy escapes many scanners through the cheap and poorly shielded plastic case and power cords rather than leaving via the antenna, so even if a good broadband preamp is used between the antenna and the input of the scanner - which should effectively eliminate LO radiation from going out the antenna because the preamp is going to have to have a great deal of loss for energy routed through it backwards (output to input) or it would be unstable and oscillate - the signals radiated from the radio itself and the power cord will give it away. First local oscillator energy is the most easily seen radiation from scanners - IF radiation is much lower in level in most modern gear because of the very short lead lengths and comparitively low signal levels and good decoupling from the antenna - IF frequencies (save the first IF on many scanners) are low enough so the component leads don't act like a very good antenna because they are such a tiny fraction of a wavelength. High grade military/spook class receivers are much better shielded, some in fact to TEMPEST level specs, and don't have the problems that most cheap scanners for hobbiests have. If used with a good preamp ahead of them they are very hard to detect if the shielding is intact and undamaged (which may or may not be the case for a unit that has been kicked around for years and carelessly repaired and modified). But a fair number of modern HF (2-30 mhz) communications receivers and transcievers use no or very little RF amplification before the first mixer in order to maximize dynamic range and third order intercept and their 1st LO's (usually in the low VHF range) are not as well isolated from the antenna. However, most modern receivers use synthesized local oscillators phase locked to a local crystal oscillator and the LO is not as likely to be detectably modulated by the audio the receiver is receiving as was the case with the vacuum tube era communications receivers in the RAFTER era that used free running LC tuned oscillators. Power supply regulation and decoupling is much better in modern gear, and this combined with the use of phase locked synthesized oscillators means that while it may be possible to detect radiation from the receiver LO, it is not as easy to detect fm and am sidebands coming from the receiver audio which was the basis of a lot of RAFTER work. But sensitive spectrum analyzers are available and not uncommon these days, so anyone who is trying to operate an undetected receiver for any serious purpose now has the tools to determine just how much his gear is radiating. Of course the detection gear has gotten better too, but careful shielding up to and including faraday cages, use of good preamps and circulators and use of spectrum analyzers to check for stray radiation makes it less likely that someone will easily find a carefully hidden receiver than in the past. But a plastic cased consumer grade scanner from Radio Shack may be detectable a half mile away... or more... -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From alan at clueserver.org Mon Jan 19 23:17:57 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:17:57 +0800 Subject: RC1 and RC3 ?? In-Reply-To: <19980120052835.13042.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980119230720.00aaa510@clueserver.org> At 09:28 PM 1/19/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Why doesn't it have RC1 and RC3 though there are RC2, >RC4 and RC5 of RSADSI RC series ? If we told you we would have to kill you. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From weidai at eskimo.com Tue Jan 20 00:00:12 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:00:12 +0800 Subject: PipeNet description Message-ID: <19980119235325.54120@eskimo.com> I just got a couple of requests for information about PipeNet and I realized that I never did make my final description of it public. The attached informal write-up was done shortly after Crypto '96 as a result of discussions with Hal Finney, David Wagner, and Eric Hughes. I haven't worked on it since then, mostly because the Onion Routing project is doing similar work and appears to be much better funded (I did send them a copy of this write-up per their request). --- The Model Consider a network of processors which send messages to each other asynchronously. We assume that each node is identified by its public key, and that links between nodes are secure. The adversary may control a fixed subset of the nodes. However all messages between any two honest nodes are confidential and always arrive (unmodified) in the order sent (this can be achieved with a standard transport level security protocol). The Protocol The protocol is based on the idea of virtual link encryption. After an anonymous connection is established, the originating node sends a constant stream of (constant size) packets to a second node at a fixed rate. The second node shuffles the packets it receives during a time unit and forwards them in random order to others. A connection is a path in the network. The first node in the path is the caller, and the last node is the receiver. The rest are called switches. Anonymity in this scheme is asymmetric - the caller is anonymous, but not the receiver. Each node in the path shares a key with the caller and knows the nodes immediately in front of and behind it. Every pair of adjacent nodes shares a link id. Each switch in the path therefore has a key and two associated ids. Call the id that it shares with the previous node (the one closer to the caller) type A, and call the other id type B. For each id, the switch expects exactly one packet tagged with that id in each time unit. When it receives a packet tagged with a type A id, it decrypts that packet with the associated key, tags it with the corresponding type B id, and forwards it to the next node. When it receives a packet tagged with a type B id, it encrypts the packet with the associated key, tags it with the corresponding type A id, and forwards it to the previous node. The forwarding is always done at the end of the time unit, and the order in which packets are sent is random. For each packet going from the caller to the receiver, the caller must multi-encrypt it with the keys it shares with each of the nodes in the path, starting with the receiver. It then sends the packet to the first switch tagged with the appropriate link id. Each switch will strip a layer of encryption and forward the packet to the next node. For a packet going from the receiver to the caller, the receiver encrypts it with the key it shares with the caller and sends it to the last switch in the path. Each switch will add a layer of encryption and forward the packet to the previous node. To establish a connection, the caller (N0) performs the following steps: 1. Select a node (N1) at random and establish a key (K1) and link id (S1) with N1. 2. Select another node (N2) at random. 3. Request that N1 establish a link id (S2) with N2. 4. Establish a key (K2) with N2 through N1. 5. Request that N1 use K1 to decrypt all messages tagged with S1, tag the decrypted message with S2 and forward them to N2. Also request that N1 use K1 to encrypt all messages tagged with S2, tag the encrypted messages with S1 and forward them to N0. 6. Repeat steps 2 to 4 l-2 times. (Name the i-th node, key, and id Ni, Ki, and Si respectively.) 7. Repeat steps 2 to 4 a final time, but with the receiver node (Nl) instead of a random node. Timing We assumed earlier that communications links between honest nodes are vulnerable to delay attacks. Therefore we must ensure that link delays do not reveal traffic information. Each node expects one packet from each link id in each time unit. Extra packets are queued for processing in later time units. However, if it does not receive a packet for a link id in a particular time unit, it stops normal processing of packets for that time unit and queues all packets. This ensures that any delay is propagated through the entire network and cannot be used to trace a particular connection. The process of making and breaking connections must also not leak information. This can be done by using a protocol analogous to mix-net. Link forming/destroying requests are queued and performed in batches in a way similar to queuing and mixing of e-mail in a mix-net. From whgiii at invweb.net Tue Jan 20 00:12:30 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:12:30 +0800 Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801200825.DAA06075@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801192330.RAA09810 at wire.insync.net>, on 01/19/98 at 06:30 PM, Eric Cordian said: >Anyone know what they actually use to sector encrypt the file system on >these things? It would be somewhat amusing if it were snake oil >based. It may not be snake-oil but you can bet it will be GAKed. I can just imagine some poor clerk tying to explain to one of those boneheads that they can't get their files just because they forgot their passphrases. I wouldn't be suprised if there were several keys floating around that would give access to one of those machines. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: You said Windows was a Power Tool??? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMRN4I9Co1n+aLhhAQFRdwP8Dhr511XyhabfAHN8Vr5xFB9l/cGqCV50 opc7y+BIYmVnbxExha+TFUcmbC285kAqxASaR8klTqAdeYJuoBy3/4GK6jbsnlBo KumzbyaM7hTcLIP8dfRM8Rs2Ol0NcBv0Qn+JmxkkAyn0F9FzOIdNfEwkJXVjU3WW Q0abx0ieCYg= =aLAL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 20 00:29:24 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:29:24 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118220024.00839220@popd.ix.netcom.com> >> The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is >> free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers >> supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for >> the software to support all this. > >It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment >mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. >I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of >the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance >the enterprise in the first place. Assume the existence of a for-profit service provider. The service provider needs to cover the costs of the service, plus enough profit to make the effort interesting. The prices charged need to reflect the costs (or be higher) or the service provider can't make money and goes out of business. So what are the costs, and who can be talked into paying for them? 1) Storage of information - Storage currently costs < $1/MB for raw disk, and getting cheaper by the minute, but sysadmins, lawyers, etc. cost money and they're not getting cheaper as fast. The costs of the equipment for permanent storage are probably about 10-50% more than the costs for storing for 5 years; the costs of administration (assuming inflation is limited to some small number) can be covered by an annuity. Every technology upgrade or two you need to copy the archives to new storage media, and data that doesn't get accessed often may get migrated out to slower or perhaps even offline media; storage contracts need to reflect that retrieving data that hasn't been accessed in a while may involve some delay. 2) Transmission of information - Roughly proportional to MB/time - unlike storage, this one's not predictable, unless the provider and author agree in advance (e.g. N free accesses per year, per password.) So the provider could charge the reader for access, or use advertising banners to fund retrieval costs (if that remains a valid model for financing the web over the next N years, especially if the readers retrieve data through anonymizers.) 3) Legal defense - This one's harder to predict :-) The current US climate is that service providers are relatively immune as long as they cooperate with subpoenas and court orders, discourage copyright violators, and avoid having legal knowledge of the contents of their sites, but that could change. >Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to >anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, >political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the If they want their names known, they can include them in the contents of the data that readers retrieve, independent of what the server does. (Of course, they can forge other peoples' names as well :-) And they can use pseudonyms, with or without digital signatures, and accumulate reputation capital under those nyms. If they want to collect money from the readers, that's independent - they may be able to include advertising, or may sell the decryption keys to the data for digicash or information using some contact mechanism, or they may just be publishing their manifestos for The True Cause. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 20 00:29:51 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:29:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118221351.0083a220@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 09:33 AM 1/18/98 EST, Ryan Lackey wrote: >Documents by specification last only as long as someone is willing to pay >to keep them up. This is not necessarily forever. But it can be, and the costs of doing so aren't much higher than storing it for the first couple of years. Depends on what service the customer wants to buy. And there are applications that require more than 100 years of data protection, e.g. ownership of copyrights which last 50 years beyond the author's death. But for Matt Barrie's question, any permanent document will do. >> Can we assume that using Moore's law this is at >> least 1 bit every 18 months for symmetric crypto? >Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses >which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms >in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional >techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before >the heat death of the universe. Hard to say. Assuming that Quantum Cryptography doesn't allow finite-sized computers to do large exponentially complex calculations in short finite time, you're probably limited by the number of atoms in the available supply of planets, and Heisenberg may still get you if that's not a low enough limit. Moore's law isn't forever. But there's no particular reason to limit RC4 or RC5 to 128 bits; those are convenient sizes for MD5 hashes of passphrases. So if you're paranoid, use RC4-256 and superencrypt with 5-DES. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 20 00:47:15 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:47:15 +0800 Subject: API Specification for the AES Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118221603.0083a9f0@popd.ix.netcom.com> >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:59:37 -0500 >To: smid at csmes.ncsl.nist.gov >From: Jim Foti >Subject: API Specification for the AES > >Hello- > >As promised, we have placed on our AES Home Page a specification of the API >to be used for AES submissions (for both Java and ANSI C implementations). >It is available at . > >As with past messages, this is being sent to all persons who have expressed >an interest in the AES development effort (one way or another) within the >last year. > >Regards, >Jim > > >******************************************************************* >Jim Foti > >Security Technology Group >Computer Security Division >National Institute of Standard and Technology (NIST) > >TEL: (301) 975-5237 >FAX: (301) 948-1233 > >******************************************************************* > > From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 20 01:08:24 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:24 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118222710.0083aab0@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but >it is as far as I could get. > >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to >cash in on the free programs that he writes? There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, charge money to companies that use it. There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that filters money back to you. There are probably a lot more ways to do it as well, but it's a start. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 20 01:36:54 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:36:54 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980120112950.01497@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 10:27:10PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. > There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. > There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > charge money to companies that use it. > There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. > There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > filters money back to you. Does anyone have any economic studies (or stories) which compare the effectiveness of these approaches? -- Steve From Vi.Sion at 19109.com Tue Jan 20 18:59:02 1998 From: Vi.Sion at 19109.com (Vi.Sion at 19109.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:59:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: BRAND NEW $10 MATRIX Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@wrinkletop.com> $$$$$$ PRE-LAUNCH $10 ULTIMATE MATRIX SYSTEM $$$$$$ ABSOLUTELY "BRAND NEW" JAN 1ST 1998 #$#$ JUST $10 ONE-TIME GETS YOU IN #$#$ NO SPONSORING EVER #$#$ NO DISKS, NO CODES, JUST CASH http://www.replinets.com/users/ce462043/ums.html From R.Hirschfeld at cwi.nl Tue Jan 20 19:26:57 1998 From: R.Hirschfeld at cwi.nl (Ray Hirschfeld) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:26:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Financial Cryptography '98 Preliminary Program Message-ID: Financial Cryptography '98 Second International Conference February 23-25, 1998, Anguilla, BWI CONFERENCE PROGRAM General Information: Financial Cryptography '98 (FC98) is a conference on the security of digital financial transactions. Meetings alternate between the island of Anguilla in the British West Indies and other locations. This second meeting will be held in Anguilla on February 23-25, 1998. FC98 aims to bring together persons involved in both the financial and data security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas. Original papers were solicited on all aspects of financial data security and digital commerce in general. Program Committee: Matt Blaze, AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA Antoon Bosselaers, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Leuven, Belgium Yves Carlier, Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland Walter Effross, Washington College of Law, American U., Washington DC, USA Matthew Franklin (Co-Chair), AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA Michael Froomkin, U. Miami School of Law, Coral Gables, FL, USA Rafael Hirschfeld (Chair), Unipay Technologies, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Alain Mayer, Bell Laboratories/Lucent Technologies, Murray Hill, NJ, USA Moni Naor, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel Frank Trotter, Mark Twain Ecash/Mercantile Bank, St. Louis, MO, USA Doug Tygar, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA Moti Yung, CertCo LLC (formerly: Bankers Trust E-Commerce), New York, NY, USA Conference Program for FC98: Monday 23 February 1998 800 -- 820 Breakfast 820 -- 830 Welcome 830 -- 905 Micropayments via Efficient Coin-Flipping Richard J. Lipton (Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, USA) Rafail Ostrovsky (Bellcore, Morristown, NJ, USA) 905 -- 940 X-Cash: Executable Digital Cash Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, Bedford, MA, USA) 940 -- 1015 Billing Without Paper...Or Billing Without Billers? Caveat Biller: 3rd Party Concentrators Could Come Between You and Your Customers Richard K. Crone (CyberCash, Reston, VA, USA) 1015 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 A Platform for Privately Defined Currencies, Loyalty Credits, and Play Money David P. Maher (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1120 -- 1155 Assessment of Threats for Smart Card Based Electronic Cash Kazuo J. Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski (Mondex International, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1155 -- 1230 Using a High-Performance, Programmable Secure Coprocessor Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, NY, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 1800 -- 1930 Cocktail Reception (at Mariners Hotel) Tuesday 24 February 1998 800 -- 830 Breakfast 830 -- 905 Secure Group Barter: Multi-Party Fair Exchange with Semi-Trusted Neutral Parties Matt Franklin (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) Gene Tsudik (USC Information Sciences Institute, Marina del Rey, CA, USA) 905 -- 940 A Payment Scheme Using Vouchers Ernest Foo, Colin Boyd (Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Australia) 940 -- 1015 A Formal Specification of Requirements for Payment Transactions in the SET Protocol Catherine Meadows, Paul Syverson (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA) 1015 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 On Assurance Structures for WWW Commerce Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA) 1120 -- 1230 Panel Discussion Certificate Revocation: Mechanics and Meaning Barb Fox (Microsoft, Redmond, WA, USA), moderator Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) Paul Kocher (Valicert, Palo Alto, CA, USA) Michael Myers (Verisign, Mountain View, CA, USA) Ron Rivest (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 2000 -- 2200 Rump Session Wednesday 25 February 1998 800 -- 830 Breakfast 830 -- 930 Invited Speaker Private Signatures and E-commerce David Chaum (DigiCash, Palo Alto, CA, USA) 930 -- 1005 Group Blind Digital Signatures: A Scalable Solution to Electronic Cash Anna Lysyanskaya, Zulfikar Ramzan (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA) 1005 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 Curbing Junk E-Mail via Secure Classification Eran Gabber, Markus Jakobsson, Yossi Matias, Alain Mayer (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) 1120 -- 1155 Publicly Verifiable Lotteries: Applications of Delaying Functions David M. Goldschlag (Divx, Herndon, VA, USA) Stuart G. Stubblebine (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1155 -- 1230 Security of Digital Watermarks Lesley R. Matheson, Stephen G. Mitchell, Talal G. Shamoon, Robert E. Tarjan, Francis X. Zane (STAR Lab, InterTrust Technologies, Sunnyvale, CA, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 1330 -- 1405 Security in the Java Electronic Commerce Framework Surya Koneru, Ted Goldstein (JavaSoft, Palo Alto, CA, USA) 1405 -- 1440 Beyond Identity: Warranty-Based Digital Signature Transactions Yair Frankel, David W. Kravitz, Charles T. Montgomery, Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA) 1440 -- 1515 Compliance Checking in the PolicyMaker Trust Management System Matt Blaze, Joan Feigenbaum, Martin Strauss (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1515 -- 1545 Coffee Break 1545 -- 1620 An Efficient Fair Off-Line Electronic Cash System with Extensions to Checks and Wallets with Observers Aymeric de Solages, Jacque Traore (France Telecom--CNET, Caen, France) 1620 -- 1655 An Efficient Untraceable Electronic Money System Based on Partially Blind Signatures of the Discrete Logarithm Problem Shingo Mayazaki, Kouichi Sakurai (Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan) 1655 -- 1700 Closing The conference schedule and additional information is available at the URL http://www.cwi.nl/conferences/FC98/. Breakfast and lunch are provided at the conference. The conference organizers have left time open for corporate sponsored events, for networking, and for recreational activities on the resort island of Anguilla. Participants are encouraged to bring their families. Workshop: A 40-hour workshop, intended for anyone with commercial software development experience who wants hands-on familiarity with the issues and technology of financial cryptography, is planned in conjunction with FC98, to be held during the week following the conference. For more information on the workshop, please see the URL http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~iang/fc98/workshop.html. For workshop registration, see the URL http://fc98.ai/. Special Attraction: On Thursday, February 26, 1998, there will be a total eclipse of the sun. The narrow zone of 100% totality will pass just south of Anguilla. A boat excursion to the center of the eclipse zone is planned, for an optimal view of the eclipse. The excursion is included in the conference registration; additional tickets can be purchased for accompanying persons. Venue: The Inter-Island Hotel is a small 14-room guest house with a large, comfortable 150-seat conference facility and additional space for a small 10-booth exhibition. The Inter-Island is on Road Bay, near Sandy Ground Village, in the South Hill section of Anguilla. The conference, workshop, and exhibition will have TCP/IP internet access. Shuttle service to the conference will be available. Air Transportation and Hotels: Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan for US flights, or St. Maarten/Martin for flights from Europe and the US. There are also connections via Antigua. Anguillan import duties are not imposed on hardware or software which will leave the island again. There are no other taxes--or cryptography import/export restrictions--on Anguilla. Hotels range from spartan to luxurious, and more information about hotels on Anguilla can be obtained from your travel agent, or at the URL http://fc98.ai/. A block reservation has been made at Mariners, and this is the recommended hotel except for those seeking budget accomodations. General Chairs: Robert Hettinga, Shipwright, Boston, MA, USA email: rah at shipwright.com Vincent Cate, Offshore Information Services, Anguilla, BWI email: vince at offshore.com.ai Exhibits and Sponsorship Manager: Blanc Weber, Seattle, WA, USA email: blancw at cnw.com Workshop Leader: Ian Goldberg, Berkeley, CA, USA email: iang at cs.berkeley.edu Registration: You can register and pay for conference admission via the World Wide Web at the URL http://fc98.ai/. The cost of the FC98 Conference is US$1,000. There are reduced rates of US$250 and US$100 for full-time academics and students. Booths for the exhibition start at US$5,000 and include two conference tickets. For more information about exhibit space, contact Blanc Weber, blancw at cnw.com. Sponsorship opportunities for FC98 are still available. The cost of the workshop is US$5000, and includes meals but not lodging. You can register for the workshop, which runs the week after the conference, at the URL http://fc98.ai/. Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the International Association for Cryptologic Research. It is sponsored by: RSA Data Security Inc. C2NET, Inc. Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank Offshore Information Services e$ From sherman at cs.umbc.edu Tue Jan 20 05:15:43 1998 From: sherman at cs.umbc.edu (Dr. Alan Sherman) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:15:43 +0800 Subject: $50 encryption policy contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Lucky Green wrote: > Given that the majority of the serious people on the list charge upwards > of $100/hour (I charge $250/hour for even looking at a problem), $50 seems > to be insufficient to generate much interest. Your point is well taken. I should have explained that I am seeking assistance for altruism from someone who is interested in crypto policy. For example, no one is compensating me for the many hours I've volunteered to pull off this two-part lecture series (and it was quite a challenge to get anyone with government connections to go on stage with John Gilmore). See http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/fall97/crypto.shtml I'm also trying to help students by suggesting a concrete, worthwhile, interesting project through which to learn about www programming. I am open to the idea of a prize fund: I will augment the prize with 100% of all prize donations mailed to me. If each of 200 people send me $1, the prize fund will grow to $250. (make out check to "UMBC") Dr. Alan T. Sherman Dept. of CSEE UMBC 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250 From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 20 06:30:31 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:30:31 +0800 Subject: FDA bans human cloning [CNN] Message-ID: <199801201457.IAA26472@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > FDA: NO HUMAN CLONING WITHOUT AGENCY APPROVAL > > Cloning graphic January 19, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:18 p.m. EST (0218 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Food and Drug Administration has a warning > for the Chicago physicist who wants to clone a human: The agency > will shut down anyone who tries without its permission. > > Richard Seed's cloning plans have sparked a public outcry and a race > by Congress and more than a dozen states to ban cloning. With the > FDA filling what critics had called a regulatory vacuum, scientists > say lawmakers should take more time to ensure vaguely worded > anti-cloning bills don't also ban lifesaving medical research. > > "It's been a public and media assumption that there is nothing on > the books that would even slow or stop Dr. Seed," said Carl Feldbaum > of the Biotechnology Industry Organization, which represents > biotechnologists involved in cloning research. FDA intervention > "creates at least some breathing space." > > FDA investigators plan to make clear to Seed that federal > regulations require that he file for FDA approval to attempt cloning > -- permission highly unlikely. > > "We're not only able to move, we're prepared to move," said Dr. > Michael Friedman, FDA's acting commissioner, noting the agency can > go to court to stop unauthorized cloning attempts. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 20 06:31:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:31:48 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] Message-ID: <199801201459.IAA26531@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > > INTEL INTRODUCES TECHNOLOGY TO SURF THE WEB FASTER > > January 19, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:35 p.m. EST (0235 GMT) > > HILLSBORO, Oregon (AP) -- The World Wide Wait may be over. > > Computer chip giant Intel on Monday announced a way for Internet > surfers to download images twice as fast over regular phone lines > without any special equipment or software -- but it will add about > $5 to monthly access fees. > > The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called > servers that Internet services use to store and relay data. The > combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all > the graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting > access speed. > > "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Dave > Preston, Internet marketing manager for Intel. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From B_Crawford49 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 20 22:44:05 1998 From: B_Crawford49 at earthlink.net (B_Crawford49 at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:44:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Additional Source of Income Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@earthlink.net>

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Our Research Has Indicated That The Following
Message Will Be Of Interest To You.
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THE HOME WORKERS SURVIVAL GUIDE If you plan on finding legitimate work at home, you need this book! Years of experience and thousands of hours of research have gone into "The Home Workers Survival Guide". There is no better source of information on at-home income opportunities. Use our listings to contact the right companies and you can start to receive weekly checks up to $1000! Please read on so you can get started right away!

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Just contact the listing that interests you and you can get started right away. These companies offer legitimate work and will be happy to send you full information before you make a decision. Watch Out For Scams! Chapter four will let you in on some of the most common work-at home scams. Make sure you read this. If you come across something that sounds too good to be true, remember- it probably is. Here are just two quick examples of information found in this chapter. 1. "Assemble Miniatures" If a company requires a large deposit or registration fee to get started but promises great pay, be careful. Most legitimate companies will charge only a small fee for the supplies they send you, and wil pay you a reasonable amount as well. After sending in a large payment, you may find that the company will call your finished work "inferior" and refuse to pay you. They were only after your registraion fee, and probably never intended on paying you. 2. "Stuff Envelopes" Nobody is going to pay you a dollar or even 50 cents to stuff an envelope. There are machines that can stuff thousands of envelopes a day for only pennies. What these companies should really tell you is that you will be mailing junk advertisements for them. They expect you to place an ad in your local newspaper offering "Home Workers Needed". You only get the "dollar per envelope" when people actually reply to this ad! Are They All Bogus? Like I said before, there are a lot of dishonest companies out there looking to take your money, but not all of them are like that. We list over 40 companies offering assembly work, from toys to clothes to weaving rattan. Choose the kind of work you like and write to the companies who offer it. Ask them any questions you have BEFORE you send in any money or buy any supplies. 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I'm so sure this book will help you find legitimate work that I am backing it by an unconditional guarantee. If for ANY reason you do not feel the book helped you earn enough extra income, simply return it for a full refund, including postage and tax. What's better is that this rock-solid guarantee is good for two full months, which allows you to really look it over and check out the opportunities. You deserve to feel the joy of getting huge weekly paychecks. Please complete the order form and mail it today. Everything will be rushed to you by first class mail. Sincerely, Brian Crawford P.S. I've just added some great new information to the book. Some people are already making as much as $3000 a week with a new program that lets them work in the comfort of their own home. It costs nothing to get started and anyone can do it. It's like nothing I have ever seen before, and it is sure to make people a lot of money. Details will be rushed to you along with your book order. Please Print and Mail This Order Form to: cut here ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANP #MP11 c/o Brian Crawford P.O. Box 712102 Santee, CA 92072-2102 ( ) Yes, I would love to get started immediately. Please rush me "The Home Workers Survival Guide" under your unlimited two month guarantee. Enclosed is $29.95 plus $3.00 shipping and handling.* $32.95 total. *Checks may be made payable to ANP Name____________________________________________ Address___________________________________________ City, State, Zip_____________________________________ Internal Code [E8SB(c)120] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- cut here From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 20 06:58:51 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:58:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801201526.JAA26626@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:00:24 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium > (fwd) > Assume the existence of a for-profit service provider. > The service provider needs to cover the costs of the service, Which in general are a flat rate. I'll try to fill in the various issues you raise with as real-world numbers as I can get. > plus enough profit to make the effort interesting. > The prices charged need to reflect the costs (or be higher) > or the service provider can't make money and goes out of business. > So what are the costs, and who can be talked into paying for them? Everyone who uses the system. The question is who do we want to define as 'using'. I believe the provider of information is not 'using' the system in the strictest sense but rather making an investment of their time and effort in somebodies elses business model and hoping that work will bring them profit. > 1) Storage of information - Storage currently costs < $1/MB for raw disk, > and getting cheaper by the minute, Assuming your 5 year plan, a 1G drive costs $100 or less. That's roughly $20/G-yr. > but sysadmins, lawyers, etc. > cost money and they're not getting cheaper as fast. Granted, but except for the sys-admin you don't need them often. In all the years I have been in business I've needed a lawyer only a couple of times. Say $1k/lawyer-year. > The costs of the equipment for permanent storage are probably about > 10-50% more than the costs for storing for 5 years; A Cyrix P200 runs about $600 for a working box (I bought one just a few weeks ago). So that gives us about $120/cpu-year. > the costs of administration (assuming inflation is limited to > some small number) can be covered by an annuity. For reliable system administartion you're looking at 5 people (3 8-hr. shifts plus weekend coverage of 2 12 hour shifts). A sys admin with the skills and maturity to work in this environment is going to run you in the neighborhood of $40-60k/yr. So this means we're looking at, on the outside, $300k/sysadmin-yr. This is the real cost of doing business. > Every technology upgrade or two you need to copy the archives to > new storage media, and data that doesn't get accessed often may > get migrated out to slower or perhaps even offline media; > storage contracts need to reflect that retrieving data that hasn't > been accessed in a while may involve some delay. Not shure what the normal ratio for online versus offline storage actualy is currently, say 10:1. > 2) Transmission of information - Roughly proportional to MB/time - This seems overly simplistic to me. The actual cost of the bandwidth is reasonably fixed for a given site. Also if we throw in the other servers this model becomes a bit more flexible. Remember, under the Eternity model we don't know *which* server is being hit for the request. This means we have to consider the actual end user costs in a much more complicated fashion. It's one of the issue I'm working on myself. It does not seem clear cut nor well researched at all. > unlike storage, this one's not predictable, unless the provider and > author agree in advance (e.g. N free accesses per year, per password.) > So the provider could charge the reader for access, I fail to see the profit in giving away plans for man portable nukes or to turn commen cooking yeast into a THC producing horde when the various groups around the world would pay so many millions (or would that be billions) for some to get it and some to keep others from getting it. The potential for a access auction hasn't been explored as far as I am aware. > or use advertising > banners to fund retrieval costs (if that remains a valid model > for financing the web over the next N years, especially if the > readers retrieve data through anonymizers.) I believe advertising would be a necessity. The question is how. Would the payoff for doing a print ad in a magazine be worth it? Should it only be advertised on the net? > 3) Legal defense - This one's harder to predict :-) If the Eternity model works the question becomes which one and where are they located? Whose legal defense? Which jurisdiction? Put up an offer for 1 weeks notice of any pending legal actions against the network and make it worth the while. Say $500M. It would of course be fully anonymous and the information would have to be testable prior to payout. Leaves two option. First, the data is verified and the source is paid. Second, the server goes down and the source isn't paid - thus ruining the reputation of a server. It isn't clear to me what the total impact would be on the network as a whole. One way to mediate this impact on a given server would be to share the cost of the payout between the various servers. It is after all in all the servers best interest to keep as many going unharrassed and as well prepared and for-warned as possible. > The current US climate is that service providers are relatively immune > as long as they cooperate with subpoenas and court orders, True, but the current model doesn't allow anonymous providers as the norm either. The users may be anonymous but the ISP isn't. > If they want their names known, they can include them in the contents > of the data that readers retrieve, independent of what the server does. Then there is no reason to use an anonymous network, simply put the data on their own webpage and sell it direct, cut out the middle-man a tried and true business tactic. > and accumulate reputation capital under those nyms. One of the assumptions is that the source, individual server, and sink are all anonymous to each other as well as Mallet. Now we're changing the rules of the game in the middle of the game. Apples and oranges. If I were actualy going to impliment something like this I wouldn't even consider it unless I had at least $500k worth of funding for each of the first 5 years. That start up cost, $2.5M, is what is going to kill it. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Tue Jan 20 07:37:38 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:37:38 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products Message-ID: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others - or - Where do your encryption keys want to go today? Peter Gutmann, Summary ------- Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, the original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, IIS, and other software and which is still supported for backwards-compatibility reasons in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS #12 format. Due to a number of design and implementation flaws in Microsofts software, it is possible to break the security of both of these formats and recover users private keys, often in a matter of seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts CryptoAPI means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break the encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence of weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. As a result of these flaws, no Microsoft internet product is capable of protecting a users keys from hostile attack. By combining the attacks described below with widely-publicised bugs in MSIE which allow hostile sites to read the contents of users hard drives or with an ActiveX control, a victim can have their private key sucked off their machine and the encryption which "protects" it broken at a remote site without their knowledge. Once an attacker has obtained a users private key in this manner, they have effectively stolen their (digitial) identity, and can use it to digitally sign contracts and agreements, to recover every encryption session key it's ever protected in the past and will ever protect in the future, to access private and confidential email, and so on and so on. The ease with which this attack can be carried out represents a critical weakness which compromises all other encryption components on web servers and browsers - once the private key is compromised, all security services which depend on it are also compromised. A really clever attacker might even do the following: - Use (say) an MSIE bug to steal someones ActiveX code signing key. - Decrypt it using one of the attacks described below. - Use it to sign an ActiveX control which steals other peoples keys. - Put it on a web page and wait. On the remote chance that the ActiveX control is discovered (which is extremely unlikely, since it runs and deletes itself almost instantly, and can't be stopped even with the highest "security" setting in MSIE), the attack will be blamed on the person the key was stolen from rather than the real attacker. This demonstrates major problems in both Microsoft's private key security (an attacker can decrypt, and therefore misuse, your private key), and ActiveX security (an attacker can create an effectively unstoppable malicious ActiveX control and, on the remote chance that it's ever discovered, ensure that someone else takes the blame). Background ---------- About a year ago I posted an article on how to break Netscape's (then) server key encryption to the cypherpunks list (Netscape corrected this problem at about the same time as I posted the article). However more than a year after the code was published, and 2 1/2 years after a similar problem with Windows .PWL file encryption was publicised, Microsoft are still using exactly the same weak, easily-broken data format to "protect" users private keys. To break this format I simply dusted off my year-old software, changed the "Netscape" strings to "Microsoft", and had an encryption-breaker which would recover most private keys "protected" with this format in a matter of seconds. In addition to the older format, newer Microsoft products also support the PKCS #12 format (which they originally called PFX), which Microsoft render as useless as the older format by employing the RC2 cipher with a 40-bit key. In a truly egalitarian manner, this same level of "security" is used worldwide, ensuring that even US users get no security whatsoever when storing their private keys. However even RC2/40 can take awhile to break (the exact definition of "a while" depends on how much computing power you have available, for most non-funded attackers it ranges from a few hours to a few days). Fortunately, there are enough design flaws in PKCS #12 and bugs in Microsofts implementation to ensure that we can ignore the encryption key size. This has the useful - to an attacker - side-effect that even if Microsoft switch to using RC2/128 or triple DES for the encryption, it doesn't make the attackers task any more difficult. By combining the code to break the PKCS #12 format with the code mentioned above which breaks the older format, we obtain a single program which, when run on either type of key file, should be able to recover the users private keys from most files in a matter of seconds. A (somewhat limited) example of this type of program is available in source code form from http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/breakms.c. Because it's meant as a proof-of-concept program it's somewhat crude, and restricted to recovering passwords which are single dictionary words. Note: This does not mean that using (say) two words as a password instead of one will protect your private key. All it means is that I haven't bothered to write anything more sophisticated - no doubt anyone who was serious about this could adapt something like cracklib's password-generation rules and routines to provide a more comprehensive and powerful type of attack. Similarly, by making trivial changes to the key file data format it's possible to fool the program until someone makes an equally trivial change to the program to track the format change - this is meant as a demonstrator only, not a do-everything encryption breaker. To use the program, compile and invoke it with: breakms Here's what the output should look like (some of the lines have been trimmed a bit): File is a PFX/PKCS #12 key file. Encrypted data is 1048 bytes long. The password which was used to encrypt this Microsoft PFX/PKCS #12 file is 'orthogonality'. Modulus = 00BB6FE79432CC6EA2D8F970675A5A87BFBE1AFF0BE63E879F2AFFB93644D [...] Public exponent = 010001 Private exponent = 6F05EAD2F27FFAEC84BEC360C4B928FD5F3A9865D0FCAAD291E2 [...] Prime 1 = 00F3929B9435608F8A22C208D86795271D54EBDFB09DDEF539AB083DA912D [...] Prime 2 = 00C50016F89DFF2561347ED1186A46E150E28BF2D0F539A1594BBD7FE4674 [...] Exponent 1 = 009E7D4326C924AFC1DEA40B45650134966D6F9DFA3A7F9D698CD4ABEA [...] Exponent 2 = 00BA84003BB95355AFB7C50DF140C60513D0BA51D637272E355E397779 [...] Coefficient = 30B9E4F2AFA5AC679F920FC83F1F2DF1BAF1779CF989447FABC2F5628 [...] Someone sent me a test Microsoft key they had created with MSIE 3.0 and the program took just a few seconds to recover the password used to encrypt the file. One excuse offered by Microsoft is that Windows NT has access control lists (ACL's) for files which can be used to protect against this attacks and the one described below. However this isn't notably useful: Most users will be running Windows '95 which doesn't have ACL's, of the small remainder using NT most won't bother setting the ACL's, and in any case since the attack is coming from software running as the current user (who has full access to the file), the ACL's have no effect. The ACL issue is merely a red herring, and offers no further protection. Further Attacks (information provided by Steve Henson ) --------------- There is a further attack possible which works because Microsoft's security products rely on the presence of the Microsoft CryptoAPI, which has a wonderful function called CryptExportKey(). This function hands over a users private key to anyone who asks for it. The key is encrypted under the current user, so any other program running under the user can obtain their private key with a single function call. For example an ActiveX control on a web page could ask for the current users key, ship it out to a remote site, and then delete itself from the system leaving no trace of what happened, a bit like the mail.exe program I wrote about 2 years ago which did the same thing for Windows passwords. If the control is signed, there's no way to stop it from running even with the highest security level selected in MSIE, and since it immediately erases all traces of its existence the code signing is worthless. Newer versions of the CryptoAPI which come with MSIE 4 allow the user to set a flag (CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED) which specifies that the key export function should be protected with no protection (the default), user notification, or password protection. However the way this is implemented makes it pretty much useless. Firstly, if the certificate request script used to generate the key doesn't set this flag, you end up with the default of "no protection" (and the majority of users will just use the default of "no protection" anyway). Although Microsoft claim that "reputable CA's won't forget to set this flag", a number of CA's tested (including Verisign) don't bother to set it (does this mean that Microsoft regard Verisign as a disreputable CA? :-). Because of this, they don't even provide the user with the option of selecting something other than "no security whatsoever". In addition at least one version of CryptoAPI would allow the "user notification" level of security to be bypassed by deleting the notification dialog resource from memory so that the call would quietly fail and the key would be exported anyway (this is fairly tricky to do and involves playing with the CPU's page protection mechanism, there are easier ways to get the key than this). Finally, the "password protection" level of security asks for the password a whopping 16 (yes, *sixteen*) times when exporting the key, even though it only needs to do this once. After about the fifth time the user will probably click on the "remember password" box, moving them back to zero security until they reboot the machine and clear the setting, since the key will be exported with no notification or password check once the box is clicked. To check which level of security you have, try exporting your key certificate. If there's no warning/password dialog, you have zero security for your key, and don't even need to use the encryption-breaking technique I describe elsewhere in this article. Any web page you browse could be stealing your key (through an embedded ActiveX control) without you ever being aware of it. Details on Breaking the Older Format ------------------------------------ The Microsoft key format is very susceptible to both a dictionary attack and to keystream recovery. It uses the PKCS #8 format for private keys, which provides a large amount of known plaintext at the start of the data, in combination with RC4 without any form of IV or other preprocessing (even though PKCS #8 recommends that PKCS #5 password-based encryption be used), which means you can recover the first 100-odd bytes of key stream with a simple XOR (the same mistake they made with their .PWL files, which was publicised 2 1/2 years earlier). Although the password is hashed with MD5 (allowing them to claim the use of a 128-bit key), the way the key is applied provides almost no security. This means two things: 1. It's very simple to write a program to perform a dictionary attack on the server key (it originally took me about half an hour using cryptlib, http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/cryptlib/, another half hour to rip the appropriate code out of cryptlib to create a standalone program, and a few minutes to retarget the program from Netscape to Microsoft). 2. The recovered key stream from the encrypted server key can be used to decrypt any other resource encrypted with the server password, *without knowing the password*. This is because there's enough known plaintext (ASN.1 objects, object identifiers, and public key components) at the start of the encrypted data to recover large quantities of key stream. This means that even if you use a million-bit encryption key, an attacker can still recover at least the first 100 bytes of anything you encrypt without needing to know your key (Frank Stevenson's glide.exe program uses this to recover passwords from Windows .PWL files in a fraction of a second). The problem here is caused by a combination of the PKCS #8 format (which is rather nonoptimal for protecting private keys) and the use of RC4 to encryt fixed, known plaintext. Since everything is constant, you don't even need to run the password-transformation process more than once - just store a dictionary of the resulting key stream for each password in a database, and you can break the encryption with a single lookup (this would be avoided by the use of PKCS #5 password-based encryption, which iterates the key setup and uses a salt to make a precomputed dictionary attack impossible. PKCS #5 states that its primary intended application is for protecting private keys, but Microsoft (and Netscape) chose not to use this and went with straight RC4 encryption instead). This is exactly the same problem which came up with Microsoft's .PWL file encryption in 1995, and yet in the 2 1/2 years since I exposed this problem they still haven't learnt from their previous mistakes. For the curious (and ASN.1-aware), here's what the data formats look like. First there's the outer encapsulation which Microsoft use to wrap up the encrypted key: MicrosoftKey ::= SEQUENCE { identifier OCTET STRING ('private-key'), encryptedPrivateKeyInfo EncryptedPrivateKeyInfo } Inside this is a PKCS #8 private key: EncryptedPrivateKeyInfo ::= SEQUENCE { encryptionAlgorithm EncryptionAlgorithmIdentifier, encryptedData EncryptedData } EncryptionAlgorithmIdentifier ::= AlgorithmIdentifier EncryptedData = OCTET STRING Now the EncryptionAlgorithmIdentifier is supposed to be something like pbeWithMD5AndDES, with an associated 64-bit salt and iteration count, but Microsoft (and Netscape) ignored this and used straight rc4 with no salt or iteration count. The EncryptedData decrypts to: PrivateKeyInfo ::= SEQUENCE { version Version privateKeyAlgorithm PrivateKeyAlgorithmIdentifier privateKey PrivateKey attributes [ 0 ] IMPLICIT Attributes OPTIONAL } Version ::= INTEGER PrivateKeyAlgorithmIdentifier ::= AlgorithmIdentifier PrivateKey ::= OCTET STRING Attributes ::= SET OF Attribute (and so on and so on, I haven't bothered going down any further). One thing worth noting is that Microsoft encode the AlgorithmIdentifier incorrectly by omitting the parameters, these should be encoded as a NULL value if there are no parameters. In this they differ from Netscape, indicating that both companies managed to independently come up with the same broken key storage format. Wow. For people picking apart the inner key, Microsoft also encode their ASN.1 INTEGERs incorrectly, so you need to be aware of this when reading out the data. Details on Breaking the PFX/PKCS #12 Format ------------------------------------------- The PFX/PKCS #12 format is vastly more complex (and braindamaged) than the older format. You can find an overview of some of the bletcherousness in this format at http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pfx.html. After Microsoft originally designed the format (calling it PFX) and presented it to the world as a fait accompli, cleanup crews from other companies rushed in and fixed some of the worst problems and security flaws. However by this time Microsoft had already shipped implementations which were based on the earlier version with all its flaws and holes, and didn't want to change their code any more. A side-effect of this was that to be compatible, other vendors had to copy Microsofts bugs rather than produce an implementation in accordance with the standard. Newer versions of the standard have now been amended to define the implementation bugs as a part of the standard. Anyway, as a result of this it's possible to mount three independant types of attack on Microsoft's PFX/PKCS #12 keys: 1. Attack the RC2/40 encryption used in all versions, even the US-only one. 2. Attack the MAC used to protect the entire file. Since the same password is used for the MAC and the encrypted key, recovering the MAC password also recovers the password used to encrypt the private key. The cleanup crews added a MAC iteration count to make this attack harder, but Microsoft ignored it. 3. Attack the private key encryption key directly. Like the MAC's, this also has an interation count. Microsoft don't use it. Even if one of these flaws is fixed, an attacker can simply switch over and concentrate on a different flaw. I decided to see which one could be implemented the most efficiently. Obviously (1) was out (you need to perform 2^39 RC2 key schedules on average to find the key), which left (2) and (3). With the refinements I'm about to describe, it turns out that an attack on the private key encryption is significantly more efficient than an attack on the MAC. To understand how the attack works, you need to look at how PKCS #12 does its key processing. The original PFX spec included only some very vague thoughts on how to do this. In later PKCS #12 versions this evolved into a somewhat garbled offshoot of the PKCS #5 and TLS key processing methods. To decrypt data which is "protected" using the PKCS #12 key processing, you need to do the following: construct a 64-byte "diversifier" (which differs depending on whether you want to set up a key or an IV) and hash it; stretch the salt out to 64 bytes and hash it after the diversifier hash; stretch the password out to 64 bytes (using incorrect processing of the text string, this is one of Microsofts implementation bugs which has now become enshrined in the standard) and hash it after the salt hash; complete the hash and return the resulting value as either the key or the IV, depending on the diversifier setting; (it's actually rather more complex than that, this is a stripped-down version which is equivalent to what Microsoft use). This process is carried out twice, once for the key and once for the IV. The hashing is performed using SHA-1, and each of the two invocations of the process require 4 passes through the SHA-1 compression function, for a total of 8 passes through the function. Because the PKCS #12 spec conveniently requires that all data be stretched out to 64 bytes, which happens to be the data block size for SHA-1, there's no need for the input processing which is usually required for SHA-1 so we can strip this code out and feed the data directly into the compression function. Thus the compression function (along with the RC2 key setup) is the limiting factor for the speed of an attack. Obviously we want to reduce the effort required as much as possible. As it turns out, we can eliminate 6 of the 8 passes, cutting our workload by 75%. First, we observe that the the diversifier is a constant value, so instead of setting it up and hashing it, we precompute the hash and store the hash value. This eliminates the diversifier, and one pass through SHA-1. Next, we observe that the salt never changes for the file being attacked, so again instead of setting it up and hashing it, we precompute the hash and store the hash value. This eliminates the diversifier, and another pass through SHA-1. Finally, all that's left is the password. This requires two passes through the compression function, one for the password (again conveniently stretched to 64 bytes) and a second one to wrap up the hashing. In theory we'd need to repeat this process twice, once to generate the decryption key and a second time to generate the decryption IV which is used to encrypt the data in CBC mode. However the start of the decrypted plaintext is: SEQUENCE { SEQUENCE { OBJECT IDENTIFIER, ... and the SEQUENCE is encoded as 30 82 xx xx (where xx xx are the length bytes). This means the first 8 bytes will be 30 82 xx xx 30 82 xx xx, and will be followed by the object identifier. We can therefore skip the first 8 bytes and, using them as the IV, decrypt the second 8 bytes and check for the object identifier. This eliminates the second PKCS #12 key initialisation call which is normally required to generate the IV. As this analysis (and the program) shows, Microsoft managed to design a "security" format in which you can eliminate 75% of the encryption processing work while still allowing an attack on the encrypted data. To make it even easier for an attacker, they then dumbed the key down to only 40 bits, even in the US-only version of the software. In fact this doesn't really have any effect on security, even if they used 128-bit RC2 or triple DES or whatever, it would provide no extra security thanks to the broken key processing. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 20 08:23:24 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:23:24 +0800 Subject: Intel, MS, & Compaq to boost Inet access x30 w/ new modem [CNN] Message-ID: <199801201649.KAA27012@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > > REPORT: VENTURE PROMISES SPEEDIER INTERNET ACCESS > > Internet graphic January 20, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:21 a.m. EST (1421 GMT) > > NEW YORK (AP) -- Lightning-quick Internet access is in the works > under a reported new venture between three titans of the computer > industry and most local telephone companies. > > Executives at Intel, Compaq Computer and Microsoft said in The New > York Times on Tuesday that they want to develop a new type of > personal computer modem that would allow access to World Wide Web > pages at speeds 30 times faster than the usual several seconds to > minutes it now takes. > > Perhaps more important, the product would plug into normal telephone > lines, which would remain connected to the outside world. > Consequently, users would not need to dial a service and could > conduct normal voice conversations over the same line, the Times > said. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From whgiii at invweb.net Tue Jan 20 09:23:16 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:23:16 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <199801201732.MAA10200@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <88531016604880 at cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>, on 01/21/98 at 04:29 AM, pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) said: >Summary >------- > >Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, >the original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, >IIS, and other software and which is still supported for >backwards-compatibility reasons in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS >#12 format. Due to a number of design and implementation flaws in >Microsofts software, it is possible to break the security of both of >these formats and recover users private keys, often in a matter of >seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts CryptoAPI >means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break the >encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence >of weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. This is a battle I have been fighting for years now. Do not TRUST Mircosoft for security. Plane and simple. They have shown for years now that they are incapable or unwilling to spend the time, money, and effort to produce secure products (Remember the MS claims of NT being C2 rated? LOL!!!). I have spent quite a bit of effort trying to educate ISV's not to use the MS crypto API for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, for the most part it falls on deaf ears. Most ISV's are unwilling to accept the fact that security as an afterthought does not work. Combine this a public that does not care about security but is willing to accept the warm fuzzies from pseudo-security and you get bug filled crap like the MS CryptoAPI accepted throughout the market place. I have come to the point now that I will not use any commercial security software nor will I recommend it to any of my clients. If it is not burdened with GAK, as with software from IBM and Lotus, it is flawed by shear incompetence as with software from Microsoft and Netscape. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: You're throwing it all out the Windows! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMTN3o9Co1n+aLhhAQHuagQApRiDHrPDtI82nUd8/7TOE64EZmlLn0zD NoHK5edUYuCRdzKfw4/4MzmIHwrasF7IpJDoQ5djtkSc8AQCsSpI4vMlq1LiyU3K DngvVGhVfsSxJ+Sbt5HAsQyEr0tnJmI92fswJrsvEMKEsd5sLhadrbW4e+CoQxUS 1m62eo1hAWs= =Lsuq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jya at pipeline.com Tue Jan 20 09:31:08 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:31:08 +0800 Subject: China's New Net Regs Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980120172945.00749fb4@pop.pipeline.com> Thanks to MK we offer the new Chinese net regulations as published by the US Embassy in Beijing: http://jya.com/cn-netreg.htm From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 20 09:31:49 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:31:49 +0800 Subject: Your local phone company (fwd) Message-ID: <199801201759.LAA27407@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Ooops, I needed to do some editing that I missed....sorry for the confusion. > that base 4800 baud. Faxes get the 9600 because they use dual-tones, neither > of which is above the 4800. The problem with shoving more tones is that afer I should have changed all those 4800's to 1200's. I couldn't remember which one so I had picked one distinct from the example provided by ya'll and missed changing it to the correct value per the references. I got sloppy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 20 09:51:40 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:51:40 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801201744.SAA22154@basement.replay.com> ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - In a fresh move to promote Islamic culture, Pakistan's TV censors have been busy. They have slashed footage of pop musicians sporting long hair and jeans. Male and female co-hosts of local television programs are no more. Scores of commercials and programs have ended up on the cutting room floor since the launching recently of a campaign by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's government to impose its regimen of Islamic decency on television. For example, a toothpaste advertisement was considered unseemly because it showed a toothy young couple grinning at each other affectionately. Gone are the soap and shampoo commercials that showed "female glamour related to their bathing." Government officials say the campaign reflects Pakistan's traditional Muslim culture. The new policies are aimed at promoting Pakistan's rich heritage and Islamic traditions, not at trampling "acceptable" artistic expression, said Saddiq-ul Farooq, prime minister's spokesman. "The line of demarcation is that the animal instincts should not be aroused." But advertisers and artists say the new rules more reflect a slide toward Islamic fundamentalism that stifles freedom of expression - and costs them money. The campaign began in October after Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif reportedly complained that lascivious Western culture was polluting state-run Pakistan Television (PTV). PTV's censors took Sharif's gripe to heart. The censor board announced a new policy that banned footage of women "giving indecent and vulgar looks which are considered contrary to Islamic values." It also banned women from appearing in "jeans and seductive dress." Then a letter went out to advertisers saying commercials which depict "an alien locale and dresses not in harmony with our national culture will not be sanctioned for telecast." In conservative Pakistan, where sex outside marriage is a crime and many women don't venture outside the home without a veil, local film and television is traditionally conservative. Even before the newest campaign, Pakistani censors were discriminating, slicing footage of nudity, sexual intercourse, gratuitous violence and foul language from imported films and television programs. But critics say the new rules have gone too far. Advertisers have been warned against "exhibiting of body contours" and advised to avoid "unnecessary featuring of females." One of the first victims of the new rules was a soap commercial that featured a head and shoulder shot of a well-known Pakistani actress washing her face. Saying the footage was too seductive, censor board officials said it left to the imagination whether the actress was wearing any clothes, said Kareem Ramaal, an executive with Asiatic Advertising Ltd., the agency that produced the commercial. "It's quite a perverted attitude," he said. Ramaal and other advertising executives say the new rules could mean big losses for Pakistan's burgeoning advertising industry. Asiatic's clients have spent as much as $10 million producing some of the commercials that have been forced off the air. "That's just money down the drain," he said. If advertisers pull out, it could mean millions of dollars in losses for the cash-strapped state-run channel. PTV is Pakistan's only channel, but satellite dishes are making headway in this nation of 140 million people, offering dozens of channels over which the government has no control. A 1996 Gallup poll found that 58 percent of adults, about 38 million people, watch television. Seven percent said they had access to a satellite dish. "Culture and religious faith mean different things to different people ... the government should not even attempt to define them," the independent English-language newspaper The News wrote in an editorial. Pakistani singer, Salman Ahmed believes that the government worries that Western-influenced pop music and culture could foment discontent among the country's young. Ahmed said it wasn't his long hair and jeans that got his rock band, Junoon, banned from television, but rather government unhappiness over its hits, which speak of Pakistan's social ills and government corruption. "I think they are scared of us," Ahmed said. "The young generation listens to us and follows us - especially the social songs." PTV officials dismissed Ahmed's accusation, saying there was a difference between modernism and Westernization. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 20 10:15:00 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:15:00 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft Message-ID: <199801201809.TAA25056@basement.replay.com> On avoiding use of commercial encryption products: In a session yesterday with a group of Japanese visiting the US to gather information on security products and export controls, a Westerner advised the group to avoid all commercial security products in any country, domestic or exportables, due to probability of being compromised. It was suggested instead to arrange a private service with a banking institution to covertly ride financial transactions, inland and external. Better was to arrange the same through military or governmental channels. Fees were claimed to be fairly reasonable depending on whether protection against national courts and counter-intelligence was needed at either origin or destination points. It was emphasized that these practices are now normal in countries where strongest info security was required for national economic protection against commercial and intelligence espionage, and that no one knowledgeable in the field would rely on commercial products from any source. The Western briefers were not identifed. From honig at otc.net Tue Jan 20 10:30:35 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:30:35 +0800 Subject: Taxonomy of crypto applications Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980120101359.007c6c10@206.40.207.40> Trying to make sense of the various applications of crypto, I came up with an illustration of their 'dependancies' at http://rattler.otc.net/crypto/mydocs/taxonomy.gif This picture illustrates topics that you should learn before others. For instance, digital watermarking depends on steganography and message-authentication codes. Anonymity requires understanding traffic mixing and practical encryption; practical encryption requires understanding public and secret key encryption. FWIW. Comments welcome. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 20 11:37:32 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:37:32 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:27 PM -0800 1/18/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: >>However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive >>an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the >>status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but >>it is as far as I could get. >> >>Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to >>cash in on the free programs that he writes? > >There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. >There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. >There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > charge money to companies that use it. >There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. >There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > filters money back to you. > >There are probably a lot more ways to do it as well, but it's a start. Ah, but these are all chump change models. How about: There's the Mosaic model--develop a product with university funds, watch it catch on, and then help found a company and make a quick $20 million or more. (A model also loosely paralleled in the founding of Cisco and Sun.) And, quite seriously, the most important thing "shareware" does is to establish one's credibility as a programmer. Many of the Mac shareware programmers made almost nothing off of the paltry donations, but the elegance of their products led to job opportunities and, even better, startup opportunities. (Lloyd Chambers, at PGP, Inc., for example, if I haven't confused him with someone else.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." 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Tim May writes: >A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and >exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The >image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of >apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow >monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical >addresses, would be "problematic.") i won't repeat my objections to a reliance on "problematic" court orders, which i've made in another post. let us simply assume, for example, that i am the NSA, and i don't need court orders, but i'm a sneaky sort so i don't want to go in with guns blazing just yet. Alice has a network, alice.net, 10.1.1.0. she has many machines on this network, some hers, some belonging to Bob. when Alice and Bob plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS (sorry, when they, or Li-Xia and Bu-pang, write articles on human rights violations in xinjiang) to Carol and David, outside their network, they first bounce their packets around their 30 machines. i sniff all packets going into and out of the network 10.1.1.0, from the upstream provider (Alice has her whole building in a faraday cage, which is ok because she never tries to use her mobile phone indoors). so. does it matter in the least, to me, whether alice wrote her last rant from kitchen.alice.net (10.1.1.1) or garage.alice.net (10.1.1.2) or whether it was actually Bob - Bob Inc, to be safe - from 10.1.1.33? it could matter politically/legally (if i wanted to prosecute) or technically (if i want to trace traffic down, to, from or through alice's net). technically first: it doesn't really matter. i treat alice's net as a hermetically sealed virtual "node"... >-- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. >Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, >like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain ... which is all the more correct topologically if broadcast addresses (10.1.1.255) are used. so i treat alice's net as a single node, and monitor traffic as it enters and leaves that "node". just as i would monitor traffic entering and leaving a single machine, without caring much which disk drive or memory bank it passed through. with a single physical entry and exit point to the network it can be treated exactly as if it were a single node for the purposes of any traffic analysis (security/traceability). multiple physical connections might complicate it slightly, but if i'm sniffing them all, and they connect to the same set of machines (i.e. the same network), not much (if it's IP the address spaces may differ but that's a minor matter). depending on what remailer math tells us - and we really do need remailer math, as tim pointed out! - bouncing traffic around sub-nets may have little impact on security. it could remain the same; i don't see how it could become much better; it could plausibly get worse, if multiple nodes in a single subnet can eat into your random route hops resulting in concentration of traffic through fewer virtual "nodes". the only situation in which this isn't true is if the source and destination of traffic are both within the sealed network - presumably what would happen most of the time with tim's suggestion of voice/high-bandwidth stuff. now for the political/legal bit. given that i'd like to see cypherpunk technology as daring enough to be of use outside western democracies, let's look at a slightly challenging situation. you're a bunch of people, each with your own firm for added safety, in this building. now i'm not a decent american cop, worried about court orders etc. ok, i don't exactly want to shoot all of you at once. but if i am satisfied (which i could be, using technical methods) that lots of "suspicious" stuff is coming from your network, then i'll certainly come in and reeducate you all on your "errors and distortions." (sorry, just finished a week of watching andrzej wajda films at a retrospective.) oho. it's a BIG building. and i don't really suspect all of you. ok, i go have a chat with the network admin - Alice - and hold her responsible. she has great respect for the government and police and would never write such a nasty thing as "the state tortures political prisoners?" uh oh. so i tell her that for the good of the country she must let someone listen in at her machine ("you didn't keep logs? ah, that was a mistake, no?") - i'm now inside, and the sealed network shrinks. of course if i'm impatient and don't believe her innocent approach, i just use the rubber hose. the same goes for multiple physical links into the same network. can _technology_ - rather than relying on law-abiding cops, and rights-abiding laws - provide a solution? the key is the BIG building. the more non-suspicious routes there are - i.e. a route through normal, unsuspected people, typically but not necessarily outside the physically well-protected area - the harder to usefully treat a network as a virtual node. looking at 10.1.1.0 as a node may help, just 256 people there; but 10.1.0.0 is a bit big to make a coherent "node" so although a LAM may be a great way to _test_ new tech and protocols out, i'd think it a big mistake to actually deploy it, as it were, on a large scale. it wouldn't help at all in the tough spots, and it would only serve to make the easier spots tougher, strengthening the immune system of would-be tyrannical states (i.e. the nicer western democracies). in general "WAMs" would be much more helpful and secure. the other thing that helps is of course the degree of non-suspicious traffic on suspected routes. putting them together, i think you can get some measure of the utility of a protocol and topology. the ideal would a) make it technically impossible to trace the route of suspicious traffic; and b) make it politically/legally difficult to prosecute originators/destinations of suspicious traffic. it would do this by a) blurring the distinction between suspicious and "regular" routes; and b) make it difficult to distinguish suspicious from harmless traffic on those routes; c) make it difficult or impossible to block suspicious routes or intercept/monitor suspicious traffic without causing unacceptable deterioration of service for "ordinary" traffic. two ratios seem useful to me as a way of organising cryptoanarchic network protocols. suspicious routes/ordinary routes; suspicious/ordinary traffic on any route. an ideal universal DC-Net with padding to keep constant throughput would have both ratios tending towards 1 - there is only one route - broadcast - for everyone; and traffic is constant so the degree of really suspicious stuff is unknown. pure Blacknet-type systems tend towards [1,0] - there is only one route, assuming everyone uses it. but without padding, you could suspect all traffic. Pipenet tends towards [0,1] - there are many routes, and they're all pretty suspicious as it's possible for the monitor to discriminate among them. but traffic is constant, so you don't know when to suspect. regards, rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh at firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 20 18:08:03 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:08:03 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <199801210204.DAA02141@basement.replay.com> Bill Stewart writes: > >Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses > >which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms > >in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional > >techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before > >the heat death of the universe. > > Hard to say. Assuming that Quantum Cryptography doesn't allow > finite-sized computers to do large exponentially complex calculations > in short finite time, you're probably limited by the number of atoms > in the available supply of planets, and Heisenberg may still get you > if that's not a low enough limit. Moore's law isn't forever. A practical 128-bit key-cracker could be built with about 10000 cubic meters of silicon. (Figure one transistor per cubic micron, 1 ghz operation, do the math...) The technology to build a computer of that size is still a few years away, but it is theoretically possible to build a 128-bit key-cracker without using quantum computers or travelling to other planets. 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From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 20 19:14:45 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:14:45 +0800 Subject: Land Of The Freeh Message-ID: <199801210255.DAA07141@basement.replay.com> News Of The Weird: >* Where's Barry Scheck When You Need Him? Malvin Marshall, >27, was finally released from jail in North Charleston, S.C., on >October 29 after being locked up for 6 weeks because a police field >test had found that he had heroin in his pocket. The state lab had >finally gotten around to analyzing the substance, which was >determined to be vitamin pills that had gone through a wash cycle >while in his pants pocket. Said a police lieutenant, "The field test >[is] not foolproof." COPYRIGHT: Neither the name News of the Weird nor any issue, or portion, of News of the Weird may be used for commercial purpose . "Any commercial purpose" includes something as small as a bartered advertisement on a Web page. If you have a Web page or a mailing list that you run purely as a hobby at entirely your own expense, and it is freely accessible by the public with , you may use portions of News of the Weird without express permission provided that the portion(s) is(are) (1) not edited, (2) distinctly separated from material that is from News of the Weird, and (3) identified on the Web site or message as from News of the Weird and with this copyright notice affixed: Copyright 1997 by Universal Press Syndicate. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 20 20:55:54 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:55:54 +0800 Subject: Your local phone company (fwd) Message-ID: <199801210526.XAA30697@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "Douglas R. Floyd" > Subject: Re: Your local phone company > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:51:51 -0600 (CST) > "Modem Tax" revisited? By Jove, I think the boy has it...;) ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From saveonaeb5 at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 21 13:44:40 1998 From: saveonaeb5 at ix.netcom.com (saveonaeb5 at ix.netcom.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:44:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Start Your Own Publishing BIZ Message-ID: <3975100040408.MCW47692@hinsig.com>

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From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Tue Jan 20 23:40:00 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:40:00 +0800 Subject: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Markus Kuhn wrote: > Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. [...] > As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence > (MI5) used vans and planes IIRC the BBC uses such vans to detect unlicened recivers in Brition. (However I have also heard that such vans are more effective at spreading FUD). - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMWHZKQK0ynCmdStAQFukQQAqRsMoLTPkunuFQWoyzvG7vLtRNEh0Xgf L/V/J9/O6PeCKXZhURMdR9FHQvsZ7ETS677LsuAdapoS+swwtRxWhwHBXdJkDa3M Oyz23S4Q3QR5WtvfRz7gj843yjpig7Hm/mwVUMTmUXC+lp6TXmKJAH/vFHyOkxPl CgFsMHGFUN0= =DeXr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From phelix at vallnet.com Tue Jan 20 23:42:03 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:42:03 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <34c5a027.243529486@128.2.84.191> On 20 Jan 1998 23:19:36 -0600, pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) wrote: > How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet > Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others > - or - > Where do your encryption keys want to go today? > > Peter Gutmann, > As if there wasn't enough incentive to steal private keys, here's a little diddy from news.com (Where do your stocks want to go today?): MS pushes NT for securities By Tim Clark January 20, 1998, 5:25 p.m. PT update Pushing into Sun Microsystems' (SUNW) territory, Microsoft (MSFT) said today it will expand its Windows DNA for Financial Services framework (DNA-FS) beyond banking and into the securities industry. Microsoft's goal: to sell its Windows NT Server software as a platform to automate all the paperwork involved in buying and selling securities, a market which Sun has dominated. The company also hopes to gain from the consolidation trend among banks, stock brokerages, and insurance companies. "Sun is the competitor in this market," Microsoft's Matt Conners, worldwide securities industry manager, said. In a related announcement, Tibco, owned by Reuters, will port its financial messaging middleware to the Windows NT Server platform. Hewlett-Packard will support deployments of Tibco's system with the consulting and PC servers. The announcements, part of Microsoft's effort to move its technologies into vertical industries that Unix has dominated, came in Bill Gates's address by satellite today at a financial services conference in London. DNA stands for Distributed interNet Applications for Financial Services (DNA-FS), a software framework that allows software components to connect to mainframes, WebTV systems, and other computers. Gates also today reiterated Microsoft's plans to ship a second beta test version of its Windows NT 5.0 operating system by mid-year, followed by the final version within six to nine months afterwards. "We're doing very well on the desktop--we've replaced a lot of Unix workstations," Conners said, estimating that in the retail brokerage segment, more than a quarter of desktops run NT Server. Those figures are boosted by Merrill Lynch and Smith Barney using NT in their retail operations. "It's probably less on trading floors." Far less, says Rob Hall, vice president in Sun's unit that sells to the securities industry. "The trading floor is still predominantly Sun, and we see our Darwin entry-level workstation, and especially our thin client technology and products offering us a chance to grow that market share," said Hall. Sun's competing architecture for securities firms is called Sun Connect, which was demonstrated last June at the Security Industries Association trade show. Microsoft hopes to demonstrate its DNA-FS architecture at this year's SIA show. Hall said Sun Connect embraces Java-based network computers (NCs), not just Windows desktop machines. Wall Street has strongly endorsed Java, according to recent surveys, and Hall called Microsoft's failure to address Java in DNA-FS "a glaring omission." Like Microsoft's DNA-FS, Sun Connect also targets the convergence in financial services--banks, insurers, and brokerages getting into one another's businesses, often through mergers or acquisitions. Microsoft's immediate goal is to create NT-based solutions to the so-called Straight-Through Processing (STP) problem. Stock trades must wend through multiple computer systems at different companies, a system that is not fully automated. Microsoft hopes its partners, such as Tibco, will build NT software to streamline transactions by passing digital information from one computer system to another and by minimizing paperwork. The underlying technology in Microsoft's effort is Component Object Management or COM, which puts information into digital wrappers that can be passed from computer to computer, including mainframes and Unix machines. Sun's Hall faulted Microsoft's initiative for relying on its COM architecture, used in Windows but not endorsed by an industry standards group such as Open Group, which backs CORBA for similar purposes. Today's announcement expands DNA-FS, which was announced last month for banking, to the broader securities market. A similar effort in the insurance industry, called OLifE, also will be grouped under the broader DNA-FS framework. "The goal of DNA FS is not to facilitate convergence of industries at all; but it's clear those industries will converge," Conners said. "DNA FS will be a technical solution for when those industries converge to be able to plug in software." Tibco's involvement is key because it has 400 customers and about half the market for trading floor software. The port to NT Server will take less than a year, Conners said. Several software vendors backing Windows DNA-FS for securities include Advent Software, Comprehensive Software Systems, Dow Jones Markets, and Financial Technology International. Microsoft and partners hope to reduce the costs of processing transactions by building on established standards in the financial services industry. Reuters contributed to this report From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 21 00:19:37 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:19:37 +0800 Subject: Distributed stock trading system In-Reply-To: <199801192238.QAA03188@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980120180340.00834c80@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 04:38 PM 1/19/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote, but not in this order: >I would like to hear your feedback on a project that I have just >thought about. >It is called a Distributed Asset Trading Network. It consists of >Traders and Nodes. They trade Products (asset classes). A Product may >be an Intel share, or a bond, or an option on S&P 500, or whatever. Who >and how defines what the Product unit is is beyond the scope of this Interesting gedanken-project. Some related work is Bob Hettinga's geodesic networks and (Mark Miller?)'s agorics. >The technical issues that are open, at the moment, are >1) clock synchronization, Long since solved - use NTP. Assuming the nodes don't need to be stealthy, they can just clock off each other; if they need stealth, they should clock off some trusted worldwide internet providers. If they need to be blazingly invisible, use a GPS receiver clock. (Using NTP with each other makes it easy to estimate distances, but that's a risk any time you've got uniform clocking and reasonably fast-turnaround communication.) >2) the need for a central authority to clear liability issues and You've described the Node as a "clearing corporation", with bonding to cover liability. The corporation and central authority both work against your goal of "a) independent of borders and national laws." Also, assuming that each Node posts bonds in about the same amount as it accepts bonds posted with it, the bonds still don't provide an incentive not to abscond with the money, since it steals about as much as it forfeits in bond; expected positive future cash flow is what discourages the Node from absconding. Posting bonds with a central authority avoids this problem, but a central authority is both a target for governments and for freelance thieves, and a temptation for its operators to abscond. >3) potential denial of service attacks through acquiring too >many locks (again, maybe with the proper liability agreement, >it is not an issue). That's a job for careful implementation; you don't want customers taking down nodes either. You didn't address a major problem: 0) Scalability Talking to 10 other nodes in realtime is easy. 10000 is hard. Not only do you need the bandwidth, but you've got to worry about nodes that are down, or that you temporarily can't communicate with, and you've got to be fast enough to respond to all their demand, maintain state for your crypto sessions with them, recover from your own outages, and deal with the queuing if they've all decided that you've got the best price for something this second. The more nodes you talk to, the harder it is to scale. But the fewer nodes you talk to directly, the slower it is to propagate information about prices, bids, and offers, and therefore the harder it is to get prices to converge - since you discuss eliminating arbitrage, bid-ask spreads, and expensive intermediaries, this is a problem. Also, assuming the system has convenient room for negotiation, you'll still have time delays as people are deciding what to do, so there's still arbitrage to be made, and depending on your liability structure, there's probably room for low-balling and high-balling on bids. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 21 00:20:11 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:20:11 +0800 Subject: RC2 C++ source code Message-ID: <199801210756.IAA06610@basement.replay.com> RC2 VC++ source code #include #include void RC2Keyschedule::schedule ( unsigned short K[64], const unsigned char L[128], unsigned T8, unsigned TM ) { unsigned char x; unsigned i; /* 256-entry permutation table, probably derived somehow from pi */ static const unsigned char PITABLE[256] = { 217,120,249,196, 25,221,181,237, 40,233,253,121, 74,160,216,157, 198,126, 55,131, 43,118, 83,142, 98, 76,100,136, 68,139,251,162, 23,154, 89,245,135,179, 79, 19, 97, 69,109,141, 9,129,125, 50, 189,143, 64,235,134,183,123, 11,240,149, 33, 34, 92,107, 78,130, 84,214,101,147,206, 96,178, 28,115, 86,192, 20,167,140,241,220, 18,117,202, 31, 59,190,228,209, 66, 61,212, 48,163, 60,182, 38, 111,191, 14,218, 70,105, 7, 87, 39,242, 29,155,188,148, 67, 3, 248, 17,199,246,144,239, 62,231, 6,195,213, 47,200,102, 30,215, 8,232,234,222,128, 82,238,247,132,170,114,172, 53, 77,106, 42, 150, 26,210,113, 90, 21, 73,116, 75,159,208, 94, 4, 24,164,236, 194,224, 65,110, 15, 81,203,204, 36,145,175, 80,161,244,112, 57, 153,124, 58,133, 35,184,180,122,252, 2, 54, 91, 37, 85,151, 49, 45, 93,250,152,227,138,146,174, 5,223, 41, 16,103,108,186,201, 211, 0,230,207,225,158,168, 44, 99, 22, 1, 63, 88,226,137,169, 13, 56, 52, 27,171, 51,255,176,187, 72, 12, 95,185,177,205, 46, 197,243,219, 71,229,165,156,119, 10,166, 32,104,254,127,193,173 }; assert(len > 0 && len <= 128); assert(bits <= 1024); if (!bits) bits = 1024; memcpy(xkey, key, len); for (i = 0; i < 128; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; } T8 = (T1+7) >> 3; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for (i = 0; i < 127-T8; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; }; i = 63; K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]; }; void RC2Encryption::ProcessBlock ( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i-0]; R0 = R0 << 1; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i-1]; R1 = R1 << 2; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i-2]; R2 = R2 << 3; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i-3]; R3 = R3 << 5; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R0 += K[R3 & 63]; R1 += K[R0 & 63]; R2 += K[R1 & 63]; R3 += K[R2 & 63]; } } void RC2Decryption::ProcessBlock ( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R3 = R3 << 5; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i+3]; R2 = R2 << 3; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i+2]; R1 = R1 << 2; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i+1]; R0 = R0 << 1; R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i+0]; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R3 -= K[R2 & 63]; R2 -= KR1 & 63]; R1 -= K[R0 & 63]; R0 -= K[R3 & 63]; } } From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jan 21 00:37:00 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:37:00 +0800 Subject: Latest smartcard software Message-ID: The Independent Smartcard Developer Association, the only non-vendor controlled smartcard related industry organization, announces their latest release of SIO/STEST. SIO/STEST is a developer toolkit that provides drivers for most popular smartcard readers as well as card support for a wide range of crypto capable smartcards. SIO/STEST provides the tools required by the application programmer to integrate smartcards with their application. Current release: 1.11e (January 20, 1998) Changes: - added support for GSM SIM's - additional Chipknip support - Schlumberger reader support As alwasy, your feedback is appreciated. Thanks, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From guy at panix.com Wed Jan 21 02:26:21 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:26:21 +0800 Subject: Latest smartcard software Message-ID: <199801211005.FAA12259@panix2.panix.com> > From cypherpunks-errors at toad.com Wed Jan 21 03:38:35 1998 > > The Independent Smartcard Developer Association, the only non-vendor > controlled smartcard related industry organization, announces their latest > release of SIO/STEST. > > SIO/STEST is a developer toolkit that provides drivers for most popular > smartcard readers as well as card support for a wide range of crypto > capable smartcards. SIO/STEST provides the tools required by the > application programmer to integrate smartcards with their application. > > As always, your feedback is appreciated. Is this for a "cypherpunks" smartcard, or for hacking them? Smartcards tend to be transponders, and to want to gobble up all other cards...bad card, bad card. Excerpt from the Cryptography Manifesto enclosed. ---guy Consider it an NSA proposal to issue everyone a Universal Biometrics Card. Everyone in the world. # By John Walker -- kelvin at fourmilab.ch, Revision 8 -- February 28th, 1994 # # Operationally, the Universal Biometrics Card serves as the cardholder's # identification for all forms of transactions and # interactions. It can potentially replace all the # following forms of identification and credentials: # # Passport and visas # House and car keys # Driver's license and automobile registration(s) # Employee ID card # Bank credit, debit, and automatic teller cards # Health insurance card # Medical history/blood type/organ donor cards # Automobile insurance card # Telephone credit card(s) # Membership card for clubs, museums, etc. # Frequent flyer club card(s) and flight coupons # Car rental discount card(s) # Train, bus, airplane, toll road and bridge tickets # Airline flight boarding pass # Train and bus pass and subscription card # WHO immunisation certificate # Personal telephone directory # Personal telephone number # Passwords for access to computers, data services, and networks # Software subscription access keys # Cable and satellite TV subscriptions # Cellular phone and personal digital assistant personal ID # Encryption keys for secure electronic mail, phone, and FAX # Electronic signature key # # Cash # # Of course, use of the Universal Biometrics # Card will start out as voluntary... They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. It will be too late. The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. From webwerx at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 21:42:45 1998 From: webwerx at hotmail.com (webwerx at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:42:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: website advertising and design Message-ID: <199801220431.XAA09057@eden-backend.rutgers.edu> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// WebwerX is a company dedicated to professional and personal website design as well as advertising. 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Thank you, WebwerX email us at: webwerx at hotmail.com visit us at: http://www.hypermart.net/webwerxdesign From aa8833 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jan 22 00:23:42 1998 From: aa8833 at ix.netcom.com (aa8833) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:23:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Authenticated sender is Subject: 1-22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called "spidering". 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TRANSLATIONS As well as English you can now choose any of these languages DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm ESPA�OL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm FRAN�AIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?220 Pic 2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?221 Pic 3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?222 Pic 4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?223 Pic 5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?224 Pic 6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?225 Pic 7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?226 Pic 8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?227 Pic 9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?228 Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?229 ============================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US. ============================================================ From kent at songbird.com Wed Jan 21 09:28:52 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:28:52 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <19980121092011.14981@songbird.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 03:04:07AM +0100, Anonymous wrote: > Bill Stewart writes: > > > >Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses > > >which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms > > >in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional > > >techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before > > >the heat death of the universe. > > > > Hard to say. Assuming that Quantum Cryptography doesn't allow > > finite-sized computers to do large exponentially complex calculations > > in short finite time, you're probably limited by the number of atoms > > in the available supply of planets, and Heisenberg may still get you > > if that's not a low enough limit. Moore's law isn't forever. > > A practical 128-bit key-cracker could be built with about 10000 cubic ^^^^^^^^^ > meters of silicon. (Figure one transistor per cubic micron, 1 ghz > operation, do the math...) The technology to build a computer of that > size is still a few years away, but it is theoretically possible to build ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > a 128-bit key-cracker without using quantum computers or travelling to > other planets. "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice they are different." -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From jya at pipeline.com Wed Jan 21 09:43:05 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:43:05 +0800 Subject: CP Bust or Buyout? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980121172436.01503010@pop.pipeline.com> Not much from the West Coast since the C2-CP meet on Saturday. Were they all busted, or fragged, or has the underground mole hole at last been taken? What, C2 shanghai-ed them all, with irrefusable bucks galore to securely distribute porn, NDA$ accomplishing what TLAs couldn't. From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 21 10:01:14 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:01:14 +0800 Subject: Is cyberpass.net down? Message-ID: <199801211752.LAA02298@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Considering the paucity of traffic and the cyberpass.net deferred time-outs I suspect there is a problem over there. Anyone got a clue? Danke. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From declan at vorlon.mit.edu Wed Jan 21 11:59:53 1998 From: declan at vorlon.mit.edu (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:59:53 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:28:24 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast ************* Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 From: Alan Moseley To: declan at well.com Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. Significantly, the group discussed the possibility of including other digital media in their recommendations after viewing a demonstration of the Internet's potential to provide audio and video. If digital TV broadcasters can be made to serve some notion of the "public interest" through government-mandated programming and restrictions on programming, is it not a short step for the government to regulate other digital content-providers? This group should be watched carefully as they discuss future regulations on digital speech. The Media Institute (http://www.mediainst.org), a First Amendment advocacy group based in Washington, has issued the following press release on this subject: --------------------- Media Institute's Public Interest Council Sees Danger in Gore Commission Suggestion Washington, Jan. 20 -- The prospect of extending government-mandated public interest obligations beyond the broadcasting industry, raised in comments by the co-chairman of the Gore Commission, illustrates both the lack of justification for and danger in these proceedings, The Media Institute's Public Interest Council said today. The Council was reacting to comments last Friday by Norman Ornstein, co-chairman of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligations of Digital Television Broadcasters, at an open meeting of the group in Washington. Following a demonstration of "video streaming" Internet technology and a discussion of digital convergence, Ornstein noted that mandatory public interest obligations on broadcasters may not be sufficient. He suggested that the Advisory Committee (popularly known as the Gore Commission) might want to examine the public interest role of other digital media as well. Ornstein questioned "whether we should be making this really firm distinction, saddling broadcasters...with heavy public interest obligations, and letting others get off scot-free." Media Institute President Patrick D. Maines, speaking for the Institute's Public Interest Council, challenged that idea: "The mere mention of that possibility -- extending the 'public interest' rationale to other media -- should raise alarms for anyone who values our country's constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press. "We already have a presidential commission considering whether to recommend additional public interest obligations for broadcasters solely because they will be converting to digital technology. Mr. Ornstein's comments illustrate the ominous ease with which government might attempt to impose so-called public interest obligations on other types of digital media, such as on-line information services, DBS, cable, and perhaps even newspapers that are digitally transmitted to printing plants," Maines said. "The Gore Commission is correct to note that over-the-air television is far from the only medium serving today's consumer. That felicitous fact, however, ought to lead the Commission to recommend a lessening of the obligations on broadcasters, not an increase on broadcasters and everyone else." The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such interventions, Maines warned. Maines spoke on behalf of The Media Institute's Public Interest Council, a four-member group created recently to study the public interest question and to follow the work of the Gore Commission. Members include communications attorneys Robert Corn-Revere and J. Laurent Scharff, and constitutional scholars Robert M. O'Neil and Laurence H. Winer. Information about The Media Institute, its Public Interest Council, and the Gore Commission is available on-line at http://www.mediainst.org. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rishab at dxm.org Wed Jan 21 12:24:38 1998 From: rishab at dxm.org (Rishab Aiyer Ghosh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:24:38 +0800 Subject: security and hidden networks (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) Message-ID: <01BD26CD.34C94A00@d439.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> summary this post suggests that technically, routing through a sub-network does not necessarily increase complexity or hinder traffic analysis, as it can be treated as a virtual node. given that, LAM-type networks may not provide much protection in a politically unkind environment. i also suggest a way of rating (or classifying) secure networks based on how well they hide suspect data and routes in other traffic. as this in response to tim may's LAM post, i'll respond quoting that. Tim May writes: >A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and >exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The >image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of >apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow >monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical >addresses, would be "problematic.") i won't repeat my objections to a reliance on "problematic" court orders, which i've made in another post. let us simply assume, for example, that i am the NSA, and i don't need court orders, but i'm a sneaky sort so i don't want to go in with guns blazing just yet. Alice has a network, alice.net, 10.1.1.0. she has many machines on this network, some hers, some belonging to Bob. when Alice and Bob plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS (sorry, when they, or Li-Xia and Bu-pang, write articles on human rights violations in xinjiang) to Carol and David, outside their network, they first bounce their packets around their 30 machines. i sniff all packets going into and out of the network 10.1.1.0, from the upstream provider (Alice has her whole building in a faraday cage, which is ok because she never tries to use her mobile phone indoors). so. does it matter in the least, to me, whether alice wrote her last rant from kitchen.alice.net (10.1.1.1) or garage.alice.net (10.1.1.2) or whether it was actually Bob - Bob Inc, to be safe - from 10.1.1.33? it could matter politically/legally (if i wanted to prosecute) or technically (if i want to trace traffic down, to, from or through alice's net). technically first: it doesn't really matter. i treat alice's net as a hermetically sealed virtual "node"... >-- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. >Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, >like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain ... which is all the more correct topologically if broadcast addresses (10.1.1.255) are used. so i treat alice's net as a single node, and monitor traffic as it enters and leaves that "node". just as i would monitor traffic entering and leaving a single machine, without caring much which disk drive or memory bank it passed through. with a single physical entry and exit point to the network it can be treated exactly as if it were a single node for the purposes of any traffic analysis (security/traceability). multiple physical connections might complicate it slightly, but if i'm sniffing them all, and they connect to the same set of machines (i.e. the same network), not much (if it's IP the address spaces may differ but that's a minor matter). depending on what remailer math tells us - and we really do need remailer math, as tim pointed out! - bouncing traffic around sub-nets may have little impact on security. it could remain the same; i don't see how it could become much better; it could plausibly get worse, if multiple nodes in a single subnet can eat into your random route hops resulting in concentration of traffic through fewer virtual "nodes". the only situation in which this isn't true is if the source and destination of traffic are both within the sealed network - presumably what would happen most of the time with tim's suggestion of voice/high-bandwidth stuff. now for the political/legal bit. given that i'd like to see cypherpunk technology as daring enough to be of use outside western democracies, let's look at a slightly challenging situation. you're a bunch of people, each with your own firm for added safety, in this building. now i'm not a decent american cop, worried about court orders etc. ok, i don't exactly want to shoot all of you at once. but if i am satisfied (which i could be, using technical methods) that lots of "suspicious" stuff is coming from your network, then i'll certainly come in and reeducate you all on your "errors and distortions." (sorry, just finished a week of watching andrzej wajda films at a retrospective.) oho. it's a BIG building. and i don't really suspect all of you. ok, i go have a chat with the network admin - Alice - and hold her responsible. she has great respect for the government and police and would never write such a nasty thing as "the state tortures political prisoners?" uh oh. so i tell her that for the good of the country she must let someone listen in at her machine ("you didn't keep logs? ah, that was a mistake, no?") - i'm now inside, and the sealed network shrinks. of course if i'm impatient and don't believe her innocent approach, i just use the rubber hose. the same goes for multiple physical links into the same network. can _technology_ - rather than relying on law-abiding cops, and rights-abiding laws - provide a solution? the key is the BIG building. the more non-suspicious routes there are - i.e. a route through normal, unsuspected people, typically but not necessarily outside the physically well-protected area - the harder to usefully treat a network as a virtual node. looking at 10.1.1.0 as a node may help, just 256 people there; but 10.1.0.0 is a bit big to make a coherent "node" so although a LAM may be a great way to _test_ new tech and protocols out, i'd think it a big mistake to actually deploy it, as it were, on a large scale. it wouldn't help at all in the tough spots, and it would only serve to make the easier spots tougher, strengthening the immune system of would-be tyrannical states (i.e. the nicer western democracies). in general "WAMs" would be much more helpful and secure. the other thing that helps is of course the degree of non-suspicious traffic on suspected routes. putting them together, i think you can get some measure of the utility of a protocol and topology. the ideal would a) make it technically impossible to trace the route of suspicious traffic; and b) make it politically/legally difficult to prosecute originators/destinations of suspicious traffic. it would do this by a) blurring the distinction between suspicious and "regular" routes; and b) make it difficult to distinguish suspicious from harmless traffic on those routes; c) make it difficult or impossible to block suspicious routes or intercept/monitor suspicious traffic without causing unacceptable deterioration of service for "ordinary" traffic. two ratios seem useful to me as a way of organising cryptoanarchic network protocols. suspicious routes/ordinary routes; suspicious/ordinary traffic on any route. an ideal universal DC-Net with padding to keep constant throughput would have both ratios tending towards 1 - there is only one route - broadcast - for everyone; and traffic is constant so the degree of really suspicious stuff is unknown. pure Blacknet-type systems tend towards [1,0] - there is only one route, assuming everyone uses it. but without padding, you could suspect all traffic. Pipenet tends towards [0,1] - there are many routes, and they're all pretty suspicious as it's possible for the monitor to discriminate among them. but traffic is constant, so you don't know when to suspect. regards, rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh at firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org Wed Jan 21 12:40:55 1998 From: wendigo at ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org (Mark Rogaski) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:40:55 +0800 Subject: $50 encryption policy contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801202332.SAA15787@deathstar.jabberwock.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Dr. Alan Sherman wrote: : : 3. (**important**) The page of submitted questions must have a means : by which anyone can score the quality of the question on a scale : of 1 to 5 (say, by clicking on the appropriate score button), with : 5 being the highest score. For each question, its median score : must be displayed. Questions must be listed in order of : decreasing median scores. : I'm amused by how this requirement was thrown in. Never even mentioned in the overview. So, what you're looking for is some kid who will work for peanuts writing some CGI scripts for you. This comes off as an insult. Mark - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo at pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo at deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster at localhost abuse at localhost uce at ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMU0CnzbrFts6CmBAQF8JQf/ZK6rxt77tLCf6C7cvG2JBm/Fx9VFhZ6F 88JGqUWCdA51ihErVuxiUlC45DxKibWuXcbHATFBo0azWYYefSd1DwNtZgFP+T4i +X9K29CTyDM/qOwWWg+sDNab4jus+mwsD/nccbdKf+jafLU2xl09oPQLGfy01E9Q ZvE7YYP4ZqX9UXt+UmBpaefmgC6GAhIC0ovS9kA6QUs9jSDnJshVWHeMhvmHVF8I OP9lI6gledcN07ps9hm8DoH9ptOdOjfUPEzx723DSVEq2GkYSAO0B4JFeV96lhVy uPsI6mv370vRZbRHQvMVBStt8Sg9FVtKNMA5EIEus3+0yxJjITKPUQ== =AdmV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 21 12:45:15 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:45:15 +0800 Subject: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] Message-ID: <199801212040.OAA03251@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > > SUPREME COURT: GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CAN PUNISH WORKERS WHO LIE > > January 21, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:53 p.m. EST (1953 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Government agencies can punish employees who lie > while being investigated for employment-related misconduct, the > Supreme Court ruled unanimously Wednesday. > > The court overturned rulings in five separate cases that had barred > federal agencies from stiffening the disciplinary action taken > against wayward employees based on false statements they made when > questioned about their misconduct. > > Although the decision dealt with federal employees, its rationale > appeared to affect state and local government employees as well. > Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the court that nothing > in the Constitution nor any federal law bars such punishment. > > "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it > honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer > with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From declan at well.com Wed Jan 21 12:47:33 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:47:33 +0800 Subject: Student expelled for writing hacking article, from Netly News Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:49:17 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Student expelled for writing hacking article, from Netly News The "So You Want To Be A Hacker" article in question: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/019821.html -Declan ****** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1699,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 21, 1998 Hacking 101 by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) The end of senior year for most high school students is a time for college decisions, vacation planning and beer-tinged teenage revelry. Not so for Justin Boucher. Today the Milwaukee, Wisconsin-area native will be expelled from Greenfield High School because of an article he wrote entitled "So You Want To Be A Hacker." Published under a pseudonym in an unofficial student newspaper, it described in colorful (and sometimes profane) language how enterprising snoops could break into the high school's computer network. The advice ranged from the glaringly obvious ("Some commonly used passwords at very stupid schools are...") to the Hacker Code of Ethics ("Never harm, alter or damage any computers"). The finer points of hacker morality and teenage toomfoolery, however, were lost on irate school officials, who expelled Boucher for one year. [...] From adam at homeport.org Wed Jan 21 13:10:20 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:10:20 +0800 Subject: javasoft password? Message-ID: <199801211442.JAA01798@homeport.org> http://developer.javasoft.com ok, so who set the password for the cypherpunks account here, and why isn't it cypherpunks or writecode? :) Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 21 13:11:49 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:11:49 +0800 Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980120112722.00864320@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 08:18 PM 1/19/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >At 7:53 PM -0800 1/19/98, Lucky Green wrote: >>I asked the exhibitor if the scanner would grant access to a hand not >>attached to the body. At first, the exhibitor paled and replied that if a ... >Well, the droids they hire to man their booths are Happy People. Sometime in the late 80s I was at some computer security conference that had some presentations on biometrics; the issue of body parts no longer attached to original-condition bodies was brought up by several of the exhibitors (I think they were checking for pulse while scanning fingerprints, for example.) As Tim said, the James Bond movie was old by then, and also the military and other Feds have been early enthusiasts for biometric identifiers - if the KGB is bothered by detached hands, it's because it takes longer than just carrying the guard's body across the room, and the bloodstains might be noticed faster than a "sleeping" guard. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 21 13:12:51 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:12:51 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was always of the understanding that the mandate for regulation of radio and television broadcasts had to do centrally with the "allocation of scarce resources." That is, that because there are only a finite number of non-overlapping spectrum slots, some degree of regulation or allocation is justified. (I'm not saying I support this, just that this was the argument for the FCC and related regulatory measures.) The Internet is not constrained by a finite number of slots...capacity can be added arbitrarily (well, at least for as many decades out as we can imagine). And consumers can, and do, pick what they choose to download or connect to. The Internet is about pure speech, about publishing. For the Gore Commission to even _hint_ at regulating it is reprehensible. More comments below. At 1:34 PM -0800 1/20/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 >From: Alan Moseley >To: declan at well.com >Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media > >The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the >future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed >signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media >that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. Just because the Internet can deliver audio and video signals is hardly a matter of "allocating scarce resources." Video rental stores can also deliver video signals, but there is no (well, modulo the "obscenity" laws in various communities) regulation of these sources. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From declan at vorlon.mit.edu Wed Jan 21 13:16:56 1998 From: declan at vorlon.mit.edu (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:16:56 +0800 Subject: Microsoft and DoJ: which one has guns? Message-ID: A long-sounded theme at least on cpunks... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft My article on the politics of antitrust: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html -Declan ******** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:35:48 -0500 From: James Love To: declan at well.com Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft Calm down Don Bx, If Microsoft really has great software, it doesn't need to use these heavy handed tactics. jl -- James Love Consumer Project on Technology P.O. Box 19367, Washington, DC 20036 love at cptech.org | http://www.cptech.org 202.387.8030, fax 202.234.5176 ********** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:09:14 -0500 From: Don Bx To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft (fwd) Sincere thanks to all who wrote in response to my letter to the NY Times. One point: Vigorous competition and clever marketing are NOT anticompetitive. Yes, Microsoft owes much of its success to hard bargaining; yes, Microsoft is a wiz at marketing; and yes, Microsoft's products are not as good (in an engineering or technical sense) as are some products produced by rivals. But antitrust law is meant neither to outlaw hard bargaining and marketing, nor to ensure that only the technologically best products survive on the market. Too many computer experts wrongfully infer from the fact that MS's products aren't the best available to the conclusion that, therefore, MS's success is illegitimate. Such a conclusion would be like saying that General Motors's success is illegitimate in light of the fact that Lexus and Porshe make better automobiles. Bill Gates may be an ass; I don't know and I don't care. I never met the man. But I do know that antitrust law has done great damage to this nation's economy during the past 100+ years. The DOJ has guns; Bill Gates doesn't. When DOJ enters the picture, it literally threatens to shoot consumers and businesses who refuse to do as it says; Bill Gates makes no such threats. For that reason alone I'm all for keeping Bill Gates free of government interference. Don Boudreaux -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 21 13:24:36 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:24:36 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801210243.DAA05915@basement.replay.com> Bill Stewart wrote: > At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: > >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive > >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the > >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but > >it is as far as I could get. > > > >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to > >cash in on the free programs that he writes? > > There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. > There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. > There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > charge money to companies that use it. > There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. > There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > filters money back to you. There's the Intel model - give away software to sell new hardware. There's the Linus Torvalds model - people pay you to speak at conferences. There's the w3c model - pay money if you want it now, or wait and get it for free next month. There's the book model - give away the software and sell the documentation. There's the PGP model - give it away until it becomes popular, then sell it. ...and then there's the Microsoft model - give away 'free' software and charge for the OS to run it... From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 21 13:27:56 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:27:56 +0800 Subject: Swinestein for Senate! Message-ID: <199801210011.BAA16725@basement.replay.com> ACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - Sen. Dianne Feinstein ruled out a race for the Democratic nomination for governor Tuesday, saying she didn't want to enter "a very debilitating campaign environment." Feinstein's decision came less than two weeks after President Clinton personally urged her to enter the race. That call followed pleas by Democratic members of Congress and the state Legislature to run. "I made the decision definitely last week," she told reporters in a telephone conference. "It was like a huge weight that came off my shoulders." "It's a long story. There probably has been no decision in my life ... that I have put more thought and energy into. There also has been none that has caused me more angst," Feinstein said. "The decision moment came in a way ... in the conversation with the president ... I thought if any call were to push me over the brink, it would be a call from the president of the United States." Feinstein said it was during that conversation that "I realized my ambivalence," she said. Feinstein, who had been weighing a race for the Democratic nomination for months, said she could serve the people of California better in the U.S. Senate. Gov. Pete Wilson, a Republican, can't run again this year because of term limits. The leading Republican candidate is Attorney General Dan Lungren. Other Democrats considering running are Lt. Gov. Gray Davis, businessman Al Checchi and state Senator John Vasconcellos. Feinstein, 64, lost a close race for governor in 1990 to Wilson. She was elected to the remaining two years of Wilson's Senate term in 1992, defeating his appointed successor, and ran again in 1994 to win a full six-year term. From schear at lvdi.net Wed Jan 21 13:44:57 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:44:57 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoftproducts In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: At 4:29 AM +0000 1/21/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: > How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet > Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others > - or - > Where do your encryption keys want to go today? > > Peter Gutmann, > >Summary >------- > >Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, the >original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, IIS, and >other software and which is still supported for backwards-compatibility reasons >in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS #12 format. Due to a number of >design and implementation flaws in Microsofts software, it is possible to break >the security of both of these formats and recover users private keys, often in >a matter of seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts >CryptoAPI means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break >the encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence of >weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. > >As a result of these flaws, no Microsoft internet product is capable of >protecting a users keys from hostile attack. By combining the attacks >described below with widely-publicised bugs in MSIE which allow hostile sites >to read the contents of users hard drives or with an ActiveX control, a victim >can have their private key sucked off their machine and the encryption which >"protects" it broken at a remote site without their knowledge. > Seems a good way to teach M$ a security lesson is to use Peter's code to snatch M$' ant significant keys on their corporate servers and publish. Of course, they're probably too smart to leave important data just lying around on unsecure '95/NT servers and instead use Linux ;-) --Steve From rishab at dxm.org Wed Jan 21 13:45:08 1998 From: rishab at dxm.org (Rishab Aiyer Ghosh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:45:08 +0800 Subject: politics of topology (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) Message-ID: <01BD26CD.3CF0B100@d439.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> m k gandhi used to say that it was good india was colonised by the _british_ - the poor fools were vulnerable to non-violent rational argument and (relatively) concerned about such oddities as human rights. one problem with tim may's idea for local area mixes is just that: relying on US stickliness on wimpy rules for search/interception is all very well, but wouldn't fly in china. i won't get into the argument over how awful the US state is here, but if all cypherpunk technology can fight is the "tyrannical" democracies of the west, it's not much good, IMNSHO. besides, if such technology becomes widespread in, say, the US, then it's inevitable that the authorities will tend towards more _real_ tyrannical behaviour, diluting search/seizure protections and taking you closer to china. a weak vaccine _strengthens_ the microbe it is supposed to kill. today your tech may let you plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS in peace; tomorrow it may not be sufficient to let you publish articles critical of the goverment. i always thought the cypherpunk idea ("write code" etc) was to develop tech that is _independent_ of political protections. technology will not undermine the power of governments, if it is based on (incorrect) assumptions that governments will continue to restrain themselves (e.g. search & seizure) when faced by increasing use of such tech. i should think that LAMs would be excellent test-beds for larger-scale systems, but it is larger-scale systems, where you don't assume the government's _not_ snooping because it's squeamish, that matter more. best, -rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh at firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From attila at hun.org Wed Jan 21 13:46:32 1998 From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:46:32 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage Message-ID: <19980121.080832.attila@hun.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- and everyone thought I have been blowing smoke over the few years over the need to dismember Micro$haft. More aye-sayers than naysayers have joined the fray, some even eloquently. even the opinion polls are against BadBillyG: bubba is more trusted! as is the government... Mickey$lop no longer generates terror in the hearts of everyone --just the OEMs who can not afford to even testify for fear of retaliation --and it is a real fear. keep your fire extinguisher handy. Maureen is really smoking! January 21, 1998 NYTimes OpEd Columnist LIBERTIES / By MAUREEN DOWD Revenge on the Nerds WASHINGTON -- I figured things were way out of perspective in the Other Washington when I heard that Bill Gates had put an inscription from "The Great Gatsby" around the domed ceiling of the library in his new $100 million pad: "He had come a long way to this blue lawn and his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it." Bill Gates was obviously unaware of the magnitude of the truth that he had unwittingly admitted. When he read about the blue lawn, he must have imagined computers with glowing blue screens stretching to infinity. And he must certainly have liked the proximity of the words "dream" and "grasp." With a judge who is likely soon to hold Microsoft in contempt for petulantly defying an order designed to give its rivals any chance, Mr. Gates's dream may at last have exceeded his grasp. The Justice Department never came down on Gatsby. This Washington has disabused that Washington of its arrogant presumption that what's good for Microsoft is good for America. This Washington has stripped that Washington of its image as warm, tender, flannel-and-soyburger pioneers of the new economy, and properly pegged Microsoft as an egomaniacal, dangerous giant that has cut off the air supply of competitors in a bid to control cyberspace. "The only thing the robber barons did that Bill Gates hasn't done is use dynamite against their competitors," Gary Reback, a Silicon Valley antitrust lawyer, told John Heilemann of The New Yorker. The disheveled college dropout who used to get adoring headlines like "A Regular Guy Who's a Legend: Bill Gates Puts a New Face on the American Dream" now looks like a spoiled rich brat. When they treated the Justice Department and the judge with the same contempt with which they treat competitors, the masters of the virtual universe got hit with a grim truth: People hate Microsoft even more than they hate the Government. Mr. Gates has gone from Horatio Alger similes to virus similes. Frederick Warren-Boulton, another antitrust expert, told The New Yorker: "Gates is like smallpox. You have to go in there and you have to nail it. If you leave it lying around, it will just come back." When asked who they thought had done more good for the future of America, Bill Gates or Bill Clinton, more Americans chose Mr. Clinton. (Even though portfolio-obsessed Americans would still rather have their children grow up to be more like Mr. Gates than Mr. Clinton, by 47 to 24 percent.) As Jacob Weisberg plaintively wrote in Slate, Microsoft's on-line magazine: "A few months ago, everyone I met seemed to think that working for Microsoft was a pretty cool thing to do. Now, strangers treat us like we work for Philip Morris." The Times's Timothy Egan explored the angst that has gripped the Redmond campus since Microsoft lost its sheen. Some fret that the fate of the entire Pacific Northwest is at stake. All the instant millionaires in thermal shirts, droopy drawers and sandals with wool socks are suddenly Wondering If It's All Worth It. They have staggered out of the Seattle fog long enough to listen to their inner browsers. This has been a rude shock to them because they honestly believed that our Washington was full of anti-business, careerist bureaucrats, and their Washington was full of imaginative idealists and entrepreneurs who buy and sell to the beat of a different drum. They didn't reckon smokestack laws could apply to high technology. As Mr. Gates's lawyer, William Neukom, told Steve Lohr of The Times, "We sincerely believe that we are a force for good in the economy." Actually, Microsoft has been a force for greed in the economy, more brilliant at marketing and purloining and crushing than it has been at innovating. The company saw the fight with the Justice Department as a defense of its way of life. And that way was hardball on software; anything it decided was a core threat to Microsoft was sucked into the operating system. These are Darwinian nerds. Besides, Microsoft couldn't even save the universe in "Independence Day." It took an Apple to do that. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNMZSQ7R8UA6T6u61AQH2fgH+OQT3p1cE1lRxSzMvhyt9AvvH2N3jFUmO UZzpqRbrn9pB1VPxZLKG2lgBwOW4hPIlpFRWg8Fp+Uu6KoL6kKObuw== =n+/c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anon at anon.efga.org Wed Jan 21 13:58:15 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:58:15 +0800 Subject: Two Turntables and a Clipper Chip Message-ID: Two turntables and a Clipper chip By Skinny DuBaud January 15, 1998 SAN FRANCISCO--In what certainly was not a hacker's delight, RSA Data Security CEO Jim Bidzos stunned the crowd at his company's annual conference this week as he joined old-school rappers The Sugar Hill Gang for a detourned version of da Gang's classic, "Rapper's Delight." Well aware that he's no Kool Moe Dee, Bidzos hip-hopped his way through the modified lyrics, which contained such sparkling couplets as... "They once proposed a thing called Clipper Now there's something new that ain't much hipper Key recovery won't work, so the experts say But the government wants to push it on us anyway" and "I like hip hip hop I like to online shop I trust RSA To keep the hackers at bay" ...then promised never to pull such a stunt again. The RSA conference audience of crypto-math geeks, cyberlibertarians, and snoop-dogs cheered, of course. They'd throw their hands in the air (and wave them like they just don't care) for a wet sponge if it smelled antiauthoritarian, but many breathed a sigh of relief. Despite the awkward moments, Bidzos, who's made quite a name for himself as a public enemy of the federal government's restrictions on the export of encryption software, looked mahvelous sporting a fresh Van Dyke facial-hair arrangement on his prizefighter's mug. He apparently grew the ensemble to match the Sugar Hill Gang--in appearance at least, if not in dope MC talent. Always the suave host, Jim will be back among his tribe at the end-of-conference gala, for which the company has rented out the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park. The Skintelligentsia certainly will be there looking out for any representatives of Pretty Good Privacy, the crypto company enmeshed in legal battles with RSA. The PGP-brains don't have a booth at the RSA conference this year, but in celebration of their merger with Network Associates--the newly formed utility software company, that is, not the PR agency--they managed to throw a soiree last night at the Marky-Mark Hopkins Hotel, right across the street from the RSA proceedings at the equally fly Fairmont. Speaking of snubs, crypto rivals VeriSign and GTE, whose booths at the Fairmont were practically alongside one another, have been playing a bit of one-upmanship recently. Certificate authority (CA) VeriSign uses hardware storage from BBN to safeguard software encryption keys at its Silicon Valley offices. The hardware--which looks like small blue boxes about the size of a desktop telephone set--is the crypto equivalent of a strong box, ostensibly impervious to hackers. But BBN was recently bought by GTE, which owns rival CA Cybertrust Solutions, and all of a sudden, VeriSign isn't satisfied with the "performance" of those little blue boxes. The company has started looking elsewhere for its strong-box solutions, according to a Skinside source. How will users of encryption trust the "trusted third parties" if the trusted third parties don't trust each other? Staying in Baghdad by the Bay, the conspiracy birds are clacking their beaks over the latest public transportation developments. S.F.'s Municipal Railway (or "Muni," as the local posse calls it) has just opened an extension from the end of Market Street down to Willie Mays Plaza, now just a gaping pit where the new baseball stadium will spring up by the year 2000. The shorthand for the new rail spur? "MMX," short for Muni Metro Extension. Sure, the project's gone over budget, but I swear it fixed that floating-point problem years ago... Speaking of Big Willie Style, San Fran's mayor Willie Brown--who looks great in a fedora, I must say--may be second only to Bill Gates when it comes to haughty treatment of minions, but do Willie's employees sit on Thai temples and proclaim their divinity? That's apparently what happened to a Microsoft programmer on vacation. According to email making the rounds among MSN and WebTV employees, the young fellow (who didn't answer his Redmond phone when my agents rang him up) overheated his circuits, perched himself atop an ancient Thai temple for 10 hours, and told the authorities he was God. It took scaffolding and a special police neck-hold to bring him down, according to the report. Brutal, Juice, brutal! Whether the item is true or not, it produced some amusing comments as it made its way through the outer provinces of Lawrence Lessig's favorite evil empire. "So, um, how closely are we supposed to try to blend into the Microsoft culture?" mused one WebTV employee as the tidbit made its way around the company. "I'm sure that each of us, at one time or another, has had the experience of waking up in some God-forsaken tropical paradise and feeling that horrible falling sensation that comes from being separated from your desk and workstation," wrote another Webhead. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Jan 21 14:07:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:07:28 +0800 Subject: Jan. 23 column - Horiuchi Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:59:33 -0700 X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:00:37 -0800 To: cathy at engr.colostate.edu From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Jan. 23 column - Horiuchi Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/424 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JAN. 23, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz 'Protecting him, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders ...' What does the Declaration of Independence actually consist of? Sure, from our school days, we may remember that "these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States." But that's only the last paragraph. Prior to that, Mr. Jefferson and his co-signers spent 29 paragraphs doing ... what? "Declaring their causes," of course! We did this -- anyone would have the right to do this -- because of a "long train of Abuses and Usurpations," remember? "He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance." Remember? "He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures. "He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. "He has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of Pretended Legislation: "For quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us: "For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States. ..." This is not just schoolboy stuff. A message etched in fire from our patrimony, these words tell us how Americans shall know when they are again justified in declaring themselves free of a parasitical tyrant. Fast forward 216 years, to the late summer of 1992. Part-time gunsmith Randy Weaver had failed to show up for a court date, after being entrapped by ATF agents hoping to turn him into a snitch, to spy on a nearby CHURCH. Federal marshals now trespass on the Weaver family's private Idaho property (the marshals carry no warrant this day and are not there to make an arrest), and open fire when they're spotted by the family dog, killing the dog, and also Weaver's 14-year-old son, Sammy. A federal marshal is also killed, either in self defense or by fratricidal fire. (The federals never release any shell casings or autopsy results for independent review -- but a jury acquits Weaver and family friend Kevin Harris in the death.) The federal government answers by flooding the property with hundreds more trespassers in full combat gear. FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi then shoots at Weaver and Harris as the pair races back to his front door, after paying their respects to young Sammy's body in an outbuilding. One of Horiuchi's shots passes through the window of the kitchen door, shooting away much of the brain of Weaver's wife Vicky, for whom there are no warrants outstanding. At the moment prior to her death (which comes after 30 seconds of blood-curdling screams), Vicki Weaver was holding her baby in her arms in her own kitchen, threatening no one. Unaware they have murdered Vicky Weaver, federal agents continue to shout taunting remarks at her dead body, in the full hearing of her children, for days. The federal government eventually pays Weaver -- acquitted of murder and all other major charges -- and his children $3.1 million in damages for these wrongful actions. After a year-long review, the U.S. Justice Department decides in 1994 not to charge sniper Lon Horiuchi with any crime. Like the Germans at Nuremberg, they declare he was "just following orders." But, just before the five-year statute of limitations is due to toll, in August of 1997, Boundary County (Idaho) Prosecutor Denise Woodbury bravely files a charge of involuntary manslaughter against this armed trooper, who has long been quartered among us as part of the 60,000-strong federal "standing army" of FBI, DEA, ATF and other Einsatzgruppen troopers. Here now is the vital test. Will this "king's officer" be allowed to stand trial on the evidence, before a randomly selected jury of Idahoans, in their own state court? Or will the new king "protect him, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which he has committed on the Inhabitants of these States"? Jan. 7, 1998: The Associated Press informs us: "BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (AP) -- A judge today ordered an FBI sharpshooter to stand trial on a state manslaughter charge for the death of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife in the 1992 siege at Ruby Ridge. ... "Magistrate Judge Quentin Harden ... scheduled a Feb. 13 arraignment before state Judge James Michaud." So far so good. But now the inevitable: Jan. 12, 1998: "BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- FBI sharpshooter Lon Horiuchi won his bid today to be tried in federal court on the state charge brought against him in the death of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife in the 1992 siege at Ruby Ridge. ... "Horiuchi, supported by the U.S. Justice Department, petitioned the federal court to take over the case on grounds that the transfer is allowed when federal agents are prosecuted for conduct in their official capacity. "U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge agreed. ... Neither murder nor manslaughter, of course, is a federal crime. State courts have sole jurisdiction to try such cases. Clearly, the federals want jurisdiction here so they can either dismiss the case, or (if a public outcry renders that unwise) so limit the evidence admitted that the question to be decided ends up nothing more than "Was Agent Horiuchi obeying what he believed was a lawful order at the time?" Sort of like letting Martin Borman set the ground rules for the Nuremberg trials. Modern federal judges -- like Judge Smith in the trial of the Waco survivors -- are famous for declaring "The United States government isn't going to be put on trial in my courtroom." As one of my e-mail correspondents puts it: "The test for whether one is living in a police state is that those who are charged with enforcing the law are allowed to break the laws with impunity." This -- along with Janet Reno and her Waco Killers still roaming free, of course -- is the great modern test of whether this Union can long endure. If Lon Horiuchi walks (or even if some untimely "accident" allows him to escape justice) while the surviving VICTIMS of the federal assault at Waco are still serving long prison terms, after being found INNOCENT of all major charges, then what shall we say to the patriot who advises: "If you see a federal agent committing a crime, don't bother turning him in, just shoot him down like a dog. Kill him on the spot, and walk away without giving it a moment's thought." Showing our respect for due process, do we continue to say: "Oh no, that would be wrong. Just turn him in to the proper authorities, and justice will be done"? Do we, really? Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From rah at shipwright.com Wed Jan 21 14:07:34 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:07:34 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. (fwd) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:06:17 -0800 To: Robert Hettinga From: Subject: Fwd: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. (fwd) Status: U >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:45:01 -0800 (PST) >From: >Subject: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. (fwd) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: > >Daryl Davis, author of the letter forwarded by Schrader, is the range- >master for the Santa Clara County Corrections Department and > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:46:37 -0800 >From: Mike Schrader >To: ca-firearms at lists.best.com >Subject: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. > >The following text was written to be presented to our (Santa Clara >County's) Republican Central Committee, to wake up the moderates, that bad >laws have unintentended consequences. Feel free to use it to do similar >work. > > Also see the advice at the end, and add my own that now is the time to >turn the heat up on both Lungren the candidate and your local >representatives to the state houses that voting for more bad laws will >never get them reelected. Neither party will be safe from the backlash on >this one. Neither party can distance themselves from those consequences. > >Don't let them. > >Yours, >Mike Schrader > > > > >Confiscation Comes to California >Lungren fulfills Feinstein's fantasy > > >By Daryl N. Davis > > > They said it would never happen. Any suggestion that it would was >derided >as "NRA paranoia." They told us they only wanted "reasonable controls." > > Well, it has happened. Gun confiscation is now the law in California. >Thank you, Dan Lungren! > > In a letter dated November 24, 1997, The Man Who Would Be Governor >declared that SKS rifles with detachable magazines, unless the owners can >prove they acquired the rifles prior to June 1, 1989, are illegal "and must >be relinquished to a local police or sheriff's department." This is a >reversal of the opinion held by Mr. Lungren from the time he took office in >January 1991, and which has been conveyed in numerous training sessions for >peace officers, criminalists and prosecutors during the past four years. > >When the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act (AWCA) became law in >January 1989, it included "SKS with detachable magazine." At that time, >there were two distinct models-one with a fixed magazine (Type 56) and one >with a detachable, AK-47 magazine (Type 84). President Bush banned >importation of the Type 84 in 1990. Later that year, aftermarket detachable >magazines (which are not interchangeable with the AK-47 magazine) became >available for SKS rifles originally designed to use only a fixed magazine. > > Until September 1997, Mr. Lungren's position had been that only the >Type >84 was an "assault weapon." He allowed the sale of the aftermarket >detachable magazines and of SKS rifles equipped with them. He also allowed >the sale of the SKS Sporter, basically a Type 84 that, in compliance with >the import restrictions imposed by President Bush, had its bayonet lug >ground off and was fitted to a sporting stock rather than a military stock. > > In September 1996, the Attorney General's office asked the state >Supreme >Court to "on its own motion order review of the Court of Appeals >decision..." in the Dingman case. James Dingman had been convicted of >possession of an unregistered assault weapon (Type 56 with detachable >magazine) and his conviction was upheld by the Court of Appeals for the >Sixth District. Chief Deputy Attorney General (now candidate for Attorney >General) David Stirling wrote: > >"The impact of the court's opinion cannot be over stated because of the >millions of SKS rifles and after-market magazines currently in circulation. >Tens of thousands of California citizens may become criminals simply by >using a perfectly lawful rifle with a lawfully purchased magazine without >adequate notice that such activity brings them within the proscriptions of >the AWCA." > >In October 1996, in response to the "unprecedented" request by the Attorney >General, the Supreme Court granted review of the Dingman case. In February >1997, the Attorney General's office filed an amicus brief with the Supreme >Court in support of Dingman; they asked that the opinion of the Court of >Appeals be "reversed." > > In September 1997, in response to a series of blatantly biased and >aggressively uninformed hit pieces in the Los Angeles Times, Mr. Lungren >reversed himself. He withdrew his amicus brief in the Dingman case, stating >that it "inaccurately reflects the view of the Attorney General." Deputy >Attorney General Paul Bishop, who had worked on the AWCA project since >1989, was transferred. > > Thanks to Mr. Lungren, "tens of thousands of California citizens" must >either surrender their lawfully acquired property without compensation or >become felons. Gun dealers throughout the state face felony prosecution, on >individual counts, for each detachable magazine SKS they sold during the >six years Mr. Lungren assured them it was legal to do so. Furthermore, the >opinion does nothing to clarify what constitutes a "SKS with detachable >magazine." Must the magazine be affixed to the rifle? With the rifle? The >rifle in the owner's gun safe and the magazine buried somewhere in a box of >miscellaneous parts in his/her garage? > > On CBS's "60 Minutes" on February 5, 1995, Senator Dianne Feinstein >declared, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United >States for an outright [firearms] ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. >and Mrs. America turn them all in, I would have done it." Thanks to Dan >Lungren, Feinstein's fantasy is well on its way to becoming reality. >Whether Mr. Lungren's fantasy of currying favor with the loony Left at the >Los Angeles Times becomes reality, remains to be seen. > > > > >What Should I Do? > >1. If a law enforcement officer attempts to confiscate your SKS, live to >fight another day. DO NOT RESIST! Do get a receipt, though. > >2. Contact Governor Wilson and firmly but politely express your outrage at >this situation. In addition to infringing the Second Amendment, the AG's >position creates a taking of private property without just compensation >(Fifth Amendment) and an ex post facto application of the Assault Weapons >Control Act (Article I, Section 9, Paragraph 3). >Gov. Pete Wilson >State Capitol >Sacramento, CA 95814 >Phone: 916-445-2864 >FAX: 916-445-4633 > >3. Become active in your local NRA Members Council. You may call the >Silicon Valley Members Council at 408-235-9175, 24 hours a day, for up to >date legislative information or for information on contacting a Members >Council in your area. > --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From alan at clueserver.org Wed Jan 21 14:10:53 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:10:53 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801201459.IAA26531@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121091153.034e0100@clueserver.org> At 08:59 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >Forwarded message: > >> >> INTEL INTRODUCES TECHNOLOGY TO SURF THE WEB FASTER >> >> January 19, 1998 >> Web posted at: 9:35 p.m. EST (0235 GMT) >> >> HILLSBORO, Oregon (AP) -- The World Wide Wait may be over. >> >> Computer chip giant Intel on Monday announced a way for Internet >> surfers to download images twice as fast over regular phone lines >> without any special equipment or software -- but it will add about >> $5 to monthly access fees. >> >> The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called >> servers that Internet services use to store and relay data. The >> combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all >> the graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting >> access speed. >> >> "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Dave >> Preston, Internet marketing manager for Intel. This sounds like a real interesting scam. Graphic files on servers are already compressed. Have they found some way to compress already compressed files? And if it does not require special software at the client end, then they must be decompressing it before sending the file. Or maybe they just convert all the images to low quality jpegs. This has "Idea from Marketing" written all over it. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From declan at well.com Wed Jan 21 14:59:08 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:59:08 +0800 Subject: Privacy as Censorship -- Cato Institute policy analysis Message-ID: If you care about electronic privacy, read this new report. It correctly says that many proposals to create new "privacy rights" become censorship by another name. The paper is at: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-295.html -Declan ******* http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-295es.html PRIVACY AS CENSORSHIP: A Skeptical View of Proposals to Regulate Privacy in the Private Sector by Solveig Singleton (solveig at cato.org), director of information studies at the Cato Institute. Executive Summary Some privacy advocates urge the adoption of a new legal regime for the transfer of information about consumers among private-sector databases. This "mandatory opt-in" regime would require private businesses to ask for a consumer's permission before trading information about that consumer, such as his buying habits or hobbies, to third parties. This would, in effect, create new privacy rights. These new rights would conflict with our tradition of free speech. >From light conversation, to journalism, to consumer credit reporting, we rely on being able to freely communicate details of one another's lives. Proposals to forbid businesses to communicate with one another about real events fly in the face of that tradition. New restrictions on speech about consumers could disproportionately hurt small businesses, new businesses, and nonprofits. Older, larger companies have less need for lists of potential customers, as they have already established a customer base. We have no good reason to create new privacy rights. Most private-sector firms that collect information about consumers do so only in order to sell more merchandise. That hardly constitutes a sinister motive. There is little reason to fear the growth of private-sector databases. What we should fear is the growth of government databases. Governments seek not merely to sell merchandise but to exercise police and defense functions. Because governments claim these unique and dangerous powers, we restrict governments' access to information in order to prevent abuses. Privacy advocates miss the target when they focus on the growth of private-sector databases. To view the entire document: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-295.html From sunder at sundernet.com Wed Jan 21 15:24:02 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:24:02 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980121091153.034e0100@clueserver.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Alan Olsen wrote: > This sounds like a real interesting scam. Graphic files on servers are > already compressed. Have they found some way to compress already > compressed files? And if it does not require special software at the > client end, then they must be decompressing it before sending the file. > > Or maybe they just convert all the images to low quality jpegs. > > This has "Idea from Marketing" written all over it. >From the sounds of it, it's a glorified caching scheme. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From schear at lvdi.net Wed Jan 21 15:50:05 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:50:05 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801201459.IAA26531@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: >At 08:59 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> >>Forwarded message: >> >>> >>> INTEL INTRODUCES TECHNOLOGY TO SURF THE WEB FASTER >>> >>> January 19, 1998 >>> Web posted at: 9:35 p.m. EST (0235 GMT) >>> >>> HILLSBORO, Oregon (AP) -- The World Wide Wait may be over. >>> >>> Computer chip giant Intel on Monday announced a way for Internet >>> surfers to download images twice as fast over regular phone lines >>> without any special equipment or software -- but it will add about >>> $5 to monthly access fees. >>> >>> The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called >>> servers that Internet services use to store and relay data. The >>> combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all >>> the graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting >>> access speed. >>> >>> "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Dave >>> Preston, Internet marketing manager for Intel. > >This sounds like a real interesting scam. Graphic files on servers are >already compressed. Have they found some way to compress already >compressed files? And if it does not require special software at the >client end, then they must be decompressing it before sending the file. > >Or maybe they just convert all the images to low quality jpegs. > >This has "Idea from Marketing" written all over it. Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. --Steve From declan at well.com Wed Jan 21 16:07:34 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:07:34 +0800 Subject: Will bureaucrats turn the Net into TV? Note from FCC Message-ID: A note from an acquaintance formerly at the FCC. --Declan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Having spedt my years at the FCC doing pre-repeal Fairness Doctrine and Sec. 315 equal time matters, I think [deleted-dm]'s concerns, tho' justified politically [because most adminsitrations will leave no good technology unhobbled] are without substantial legal basis. The hook for the Fairness Doctrine obligation imposed on broadcasters as a corollary to their statutory 'public interest' obligations was as a licensee of scarce broadcast spectrum--a discrete frequency awarded on a putatively compettive basis. Those key elements[scarcity/license/obligation] are--for now--lacking in the on-line environment. And while no doubt this or another Administration, or wiley Congressional staffer could gin up a plausable nexus between the web and interstate commerce, sufficiient to sustain a new public interest obligation, I think we're two or three generations of bandwith scarcity away from that becoming a compelling element of a cyber-resource allocation scheme. Without that overarching allocation-based [license] compulsion (to force even facial compliance with an obligation, so that enforcement would become essential to compliance, thus creating a need for thousands of Web police to review commercial licensees sites and traffic--[what a nightmare] -) -the liklihood of developing a meaningful scheme of public interest obligation would be a an overdebated and overhyped PC exercise, quickly becoming comic--and then dangerous. From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 16:40:23 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:40:23 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220050.TAA25337@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/20/98 at 12:43 PM, Steve Schear said: >At 4:29 AM +0000 1/21/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: >> How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet >> Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others >> - or - >> Where do your encryption keys want to go today? >> >> Peter Gutmann, >> >>Summary >>------- >> >>Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, the >>original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, IIS, and >>other software and which is still supported for backwards-compatibility reasons >>in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS #12 format. Due to a number of >>design and implementation flaws in Microsofts software, it is possible to break >>the security of both of these formats and recover users private keys, often in >>a matter of seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts >>CryptoAPI means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break >>the encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence of >>weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. >> >>As a result of these flaws, no Microsoft internet product is capable of >>protecting a users keys from hostile attack. By combining the attacks >>described below with widely-publicised bugs in MSIE which allow hostile sites >>to read the contents of users hard drives or with an ActiveX control, a victim >>can have their private key sucked off their machine and the encryption which >>"protects" it broken at a remote site without their knowledge. >> >Seems a good way to teach M$ a security lesson is to use Peter's code to >snatch M$' ant significant keys on their corporate servers and publish. >Of course, they're probably too smart to leave important data just lying >around on unsecure '95/NT servers and instead use Linux ;-) More than likely they have them tucked away on one of the AS/400's they are running at Redmond. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable. Windows: Vulnerable. OS/2: Viable. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMaGDI9Co1n+aLhhAQHicwP+NNIDJcNmdJjW294Pr6BEMvuOHmpcm8yk AijqKWmSerz/D/VDD1zh7FwRNhkMD9qEkEXO4molAIsomo49NgBs8MhEIBSW7FhC yj2lEZ5/xNGy+SVOoEpWywQD+KpU3FZftHIBUcQE0o7Wc+0AnjHfcUUDgjDkumCF 98Qe8bFqQyg= =Z4ph -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mclow at owl.csusm.edu Wed Jan 21 16:58:29 1998 From: mclow at owl.csusm.edu (Marshall Clow) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:58:29 +0800 Subject: Latest smartcard software In-Reply-To: <199801211005.FAA12259@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: guy wrote: > > From cypherpunks-errors at toad.com Wed Jan 21 03:38:35 1998 > > > > The Independent Smartcard Developer Association, the only non-vendor > > controlled smartcard related industry organization, announces their >latest > > release of SIO/STEST. > > > > SIO/STEST is a developer toolkit that provides drivers for most popular > > smartcard readers as well as card support for a wide range of crypto > > capable smartcards. SIO/STEST provides the tools required by the > > application programmer to integrate smartcards with their application. > > > > As always, your feedback is appreciated. > >Is this for a "cypherpunks" smartcard, or for hacking them? > >Smartcards tend to be transponders, and to want to gobble up >all other cards...bad card, bad card. > [ Excerpt from the Cryptography Manifesto snipped ] > >They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number >during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. > >It will be too late. > >The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. > > All the more reason to distribute information on how to read from and write to the cards. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. From dm0 at avana.net Wed Jan 21 17:28:49 1998 From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:28:49 +0800 Subject: ITAR is back! Message-ID: <34C69FE3.4B0159A7@avana.net> Those of you who thought that ITAR was dead had better check this out -- http://www.itar-tass.com/ Aparently, ITAR has found a new home... :-) Note that they are running Sun / Elvis+. --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad From bd1011 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 17:31:06 1998 From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:31:06 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer Message-ID: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided to be developed. Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Wed Jan 21 17:57:37 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:57:37 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <19980121.080832.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: "Attila T. Hun" writes: > and everyone thought I have been blowing smoke over the > few years over the need to dismember Micro$haft. More > aye-sayers than naysayers have joined the fray, some even > eloquently. even the opinion polls are against BadBillyG: > bubba is more trusted! as is the government... I don't know why there's somuch mickeysoft-related traffic all of a sudden, but here are a couple of rants: Jack Aaron's, the commodities division of Goldman Sachs, controls inter alia like 99% of US coffee supply. if you try to circumvent their monopoly, by trying to import a material amount of coffee, whether it's the cheap shit for proles or the high-end caffeine fix from Kenya, you and your suppliers just might find yourself in a lot more trouble that the computer manusfacturers who were reluctant to put the free mickeysoft browser on their dekstop. Why doesn't DOJ come down on Goldman Sachs? Does it have anything to do with the fact that a Goldman Sachs partner is in Clinton's cabinet? Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL that looks like valueclick.com bannermall.com adforce.*.com/ bannerweb.com eads.com/ /*/sponsors/*.gif *banner*.gif /image/ads/ etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users and would rather bend over for the advertisers. Wow, two rants for the price of one. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Jan 21 18:51:32 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:51:32 +0800 Subject: Will bureaucrats turn the Net into TV? Note from FCC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220247.SAA12030@netcom12.netcom.com> does anyone else smell a bureacrat writing that article? >Without that overarching allocation-based [license] compulsion (to force >even facial compliance with an obligation, so that enforcement would >become essential to compliance, thus creating a need for thousands of Web >police to review commercial licensees sites and traffic--[what a >nightmare] -) -the liklihood of developing a meaningful scheme of public >interest obligation would be a an overdebated and overhyped PC exercise, >quickly becoming comic--and then dangerous. whoa, someone claiming that the government won't do something because it would lead to a horrible increase in the number of bureacrats or federal police? hmmmmmmmm, somehow I don't feel so reassured. here is another reason the net won't be regulated: because it is like society's nervous system, and freedom of expression and speech has finally found a tangible outlet and form after centuries of attempts. "freedom of press" only applies to those who have a press, yet freedom of web sites belongs to anyone who can scrounge up $5/mo. (I promise you I am now paying that amount for a site). moreover, the net has become a powerful economic force. there are tens of thousands of people now making their living directly or indirectly off the net. any attempt to change its chemistry will involve a backlash from some of the most intelligent and motivated people on the planet. people don't care too much about american politics, but any attempt to mess with the internet will be slapped hard by the population, which is finally getting a clue about what the words "participatory democracy" mean. it would be political suicide. this is not to say that some idiot politicians will continue to experiment. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 21 19:31:50 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:31:50 +0800 Subject: RC1 and RC3 ?? Message-ID: <199801220315.EAA18030@basement.replay.com> >At 09:28 PM 1/19/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: >> >>Why doesn't it have RC1 and RC3 though there are RC2, >>RC4 and RC5 of RSADSI RC series ? > >If we told you we would have to kill you. Cool! Let's tell him, then, so we won't have to listen to him anymore! :) From frantz at netcom.com Wed Jan 21 20:41:49 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:41:49 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:30 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >At 1:34 PM -0800 1/20/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 >>From: Alan Moseley >>To: declan at well.com >>Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media >> >>The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the >>future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed >>signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media >>that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. >>... >> The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act >>demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The //eagerness >>digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such >>interventions, Maines warned. > >Just because the Internet can deliver audio and video signals is hardly a >matter of "allocating scarce resources." Video rental stores can also >deliver video signals, but there is no (well, modulo the "obscenity" laws >in various communities) regulation of these sources. Presumably they intend to also regulate live theater. It can also deliver audio and video. FUBAR. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | All politicians should ski.| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From anon at anon.efga.org Wed Jan 21 21:15:57 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:15:57 +0800 Subject: tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code Message-ID: <7f7f70c39f30fd17d32c41b5bddb97b3@anon.efga.org> tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code #include #include void RC2Keyschedule::schedule( unsigned short K[64], const unsigned char L[128], unsigned T8, unsigned TM ) { unsigned char x; unsigned i; static const unsigned char PITABLE[256] = { 217,120,249,196, 25,221,181,237, 40,233,253,121, 74,160,216,157, 198,126, 55,131, 43,118, 83,142, 98, 76,100,136, 68,139,251,162, 23,154, 89,245,135,179, 79, 19, 97, 69,109,141, 9,129,125, 50, 189,143, 64,235,134,183,123, 11,240,149, 33, 34, 92,107, 78,130, 84,214,101,147,206, 96,178, 28,115, 86,192, 20,167,140,241,220, 18,117,202, 31, 59,190,228,209, 66, 61,212, 48,163, 60,182, 38, 111,191, 14,218, 70,105, 7, 87, 39,242, 29,155,188,148, 67, 3, 248, 17,199,246,144,239, 62,231, 6,195,213, 47,200,102, 30,215, 8,232,234,222,128, 82,238,247,132,170,114,172, 53, 77,106, 42, 150, 26,210,113, 90, 21, 73,116, 75,159,208, 94, 4, 24,164,236, 194,224, 65,110, 15, 81,203,204, 36,145,175, 80,161,244,112, 57, 153,124, 58,133, 35,184,180,122,252, 2, 54, 91, 37, 85,151, 49, 45, 93,250,152,227,138,146,174, 5,223, 41, 16,103,108,186,201, 211, 0,230,207,225,158,168, 44, 99, 22, 1, 63, 88,226,137,169, 13, 56, 52, 27,171, 51,255,176,187, 72, 12, 95,185,177,205, 46, 197,243,219, 71,229,165,156,119, 10,166, 32,104,254,127,193,173 }; assert(len > 0 && len <= 128); assert(bits <= 1024); if (!bits) bits = 1024; memcpy(xkey, key, len); for (i = 0; i < 128; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; } T8 = (T1+7) >> 3; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for (i = 0; i < 127-T8; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; }; i = 63; K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]; }; void RC2Encryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i+0]; R0 = R0 << 1; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i+1]; R1 = R1 << 2; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i+2]; R2 = R2 << 3; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i+3]; R3 = R3 << 5; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R0 += K[R3 & 63]; R1 += K[R0 & 63]; R2 += K[R1 & 63]; R3 += K[R2 & 63]; } } void RC2Decryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R3 = R3 << 5; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i-3]; R2 = R2 << 3; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i-2]; R1 = R1 << 2; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i-1]; R0 = R0 << 1; R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i-0]; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R3 -= K[R2 & 63]; R2 -= KR1 & 63]; R1 -= K[R0 & 63]; R0 -= K[R3 & 63]; } } From anon at squirrel.owl.de Wed Jan 21 21:16:30 1998 From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:16:30 +0800 Subject: Latest smartcard software Message-ID: >They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number >during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. > >It will be too late. > >The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. Sounds like Microsoft. No, really. I'm dead serious. Like it or not, people have to use Mickeysoft crap sooner or later. Want to read that document? Read that email? Run that program? Purchase things (software which runs)? It's garbage. I know it's garbage. Many of us here know it's garbage. But we have to use it anyway. Compare this to the smartcard as proposed like this: I know it's garbage. Many of us here know it's garbage. But we have to use it anyway. Want to read that document? Read that email? Access that computer system? Drive your car? Get in your house? Get through a toll booth? Enter or leave the country? Better make sure your papers are in order. The high-tech American Leviathan is already in place. The problem is that it'll just get worse because the sheeple are, by definition, naked, stupid, and blind. From declan at well.com Wed Jan 21 21:25:35 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:25:35 +0800 Subject: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801212040.OAA03251@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: Clarification on the Subject: line -- the court's ruling, at least as described below, applies only to government employees. It is the state-as-employer, not the state-as-sovereign, role the court is discussing. In other words, we're still free to lie, cheat, and steal[1]. -Declan [1] Unless it's a copyrighted work; if it is, you'll go to federal prison and be fined a quarter-mil. Thanks, Bill Gates and the Software Publishers Association. At 14:40 -0600 1/21/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> >> SUPREME COURT: GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CAN PUNISH WORKERS WHO LIE >> >> January 21, 1998 >> Web posted at: 2:53 p.m. EST (1953 GMT) >> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Government agencies can punish employees who lie >> while being investigated for employment-related misconduct, the >> Supreme Court ruled unanimously Wednesday. >> >> The court overturned rulings in five separate cases that had barred >> federal agencies from stiffening the disciplinary action taken >> against wayward employees based on false statements they made when >> questioned about their misconduct. >> >> Although the decision dealt with federal employees, its rationale >> appeared to affect state and local government employees as well. >> Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the court that nothing >> in the Constitution nor any federal law bars such punishment. >> >> "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it >> honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer >> with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | > | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | > | | > | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage at ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 21 21:27:07 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:27:07 +0800 Subject: Will bureaucrats turn the Net into TV? Note from FCC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:02 PM -0800 1/21/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >A note from an acquaintance formerly at the FCC. --Declan > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Having spedt my years at the FCC doing pre-repeal Fairness Doctrine and >Sec. 315 equal time matters, I think [deleted-dm]'s concerns, tho' >justified politically [because most adminsitrations will leave no good >technology unhobbled] are without substantial legal basis. > >The hook for the Fairness Doctrine obligation imposed on broadcasters as a >corollary to their statutory 'public interest' obligations was as a >licensee of scarce broadcast spectrum--a discrete frequency awarded on a >putatively compettive basis. Hey, this is what _I_ said. >Those key elements[scarcity/license/obligation] are--for now--lacking in >the on-line environment. And while no doubt this or another Yep, this was what I was saying. >Administration, or wiley Congressional staffer could gin up a plausable >nexus between the web and interstate commerce, sufficiient to sustain a >new public interest obligation, I think we're two or three generations of >bandwith scarcity away from that becoming a compelling element of a >cyber-resource allocation scheme. "Regulation of commerce" (which was, let us not forget, *interstate* commerce, despite the recent extension into defining cloning as commerce, growing peanuts as commerce, and painting pictures as commerce, etc.) is a fundamentally different issue than allocation of scarce bandwidth. Though Declan's source may be right that the burrowcrats will try to find a reason to stick their fingers into the Net to regulate it (meaning, rent-seeking), it won't be via the FCC. That will not fly. I doubt that even President Gore will have the time this coming summer to push for such foolish legislation. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 21:39:34 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:39:34 +0800 Subject: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220551.AAA28381@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/21/98 at 11:47 PM, Declan McCullagh said: >[1] Unless it's a copyrighted work; if it is, you'll go to federal prison >and be fined a quarter-mil. Thanks, Bill Gates and the Software >Publishers Association. Perhaps we could convince Sun to press for *criminal* charges against Bill Gates as part of thier current battle over Java. I think it would only be fitting to set the tables turned against these SOB's. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable. Windows: Vulnerable. OS/2: Viable. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbMgo9Co1n+aLhhAQHbQAQAuhbHqJhZSAUucxdwnKHu4s312Vd5+H0r p4rsCn36HoWdqaPReGsjcZUV7Y5VTKCLjBV2vkfAmkT40cZwgwhoAXwusVLjWIB5 b0xZYFndb0+CqasFCtZ/UqZiW6CkfwZpZAD3yox0qC6S2nLSCmwgopgojTS5F6is GXlMiVNy/14= =xzJJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 21 21:39:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:39:48 +0800 Subject: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801220536.XAA06214@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:47:05 -0500 > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Re: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] > Reply-To: austin-cpunks at ssz.com > > Clarification on the Subject: line -- the court's ruling, at least as > described below, applies only to government employees. It is the > state-as-employer, not the state-as-sovereign, role the court is discussing. > > In other words, we're still free to lie, cheat, and steal[1]. > >> "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it > >> honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer > >> with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. So you have to be an employee of the government to be a citizen? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Jan 21 21:51:20 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:51:20 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious > feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE > nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster > from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners > and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able > to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL > that looks like > > valueclick.com > bannermall.com > adforce.*.com/ > bannerweb.com > eads.com/ > /*/sponsors/*.gif > *banner*.gif > /image/ads/ > > etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and > Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users > and would rather bend over for the advertisers. I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you can take it and modify it. - Igor. From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 21:51:28 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:51:28 +0800 Subject: Latest smartcard software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220604.BAA28541@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/22/98 at 03:53 AM, Secret Squirrel said: >>They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number >>during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. >> >>It will be too late. >> >>The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. >Sounds like Microsoft. No, really. I'm dead serious. >Like it or not, people have to use Mickeysoft crap sooner or later. Want >to read that document? Read that email? Run that program? Purchase things >(software which runs)? It's garbage. I know it's garbage. Many of us here > know it's garbage. But we have to use it anyway. Compare this to the >smartcard as proposed like this: >I know it's garbage. Many of us here know it's garbage. But we have to >use it anyway. Want to read that document? Read that email? Access that >computer system? Drive your car? Get in your house? Get through a toll >booth? Enter or leave the country? Better make sure your papers are in >order. >The high-tech American Leviathan is already in place. The problem is that >it'll just get worse because the sheeple are, by definition, naked, >stupid, and blind. This is, well what can I say but, BULL. This is the typical line one gets from the sheeple, "I don't like MS but I am *forced* to use it", or "I don't like Credit Cards but I can't live without them". Life sucks deal with it. You have two choices: either use it or don't but quit your whining. I will not use a dumbcard today, tomorrow, or ever (I have never owned a CC). The herd will always be the herd but if you follow along are you really any different? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: When DOS grows up it wants to be OS/2! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbPfI9Co1n+aLhhAQGoOwP+PbgtKvM52fHDUUIhFlHm89s801Pcpo9d gihoEKJKPqDfhllsJunIMUXT92S+bYSBrRDQpbnPHtbiuBW/XMIBEKtIbWpO77ya TnZIvATMpTZwUIIMBAQOCpRUgsVdPGMJf36Jwq6Pf2ItfBsCeja8QHixxJebz+Bf cVYddd0jhuw= =XC2k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 22:05:12 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:05:12 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801220610.BAA28611@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801220537.XAA00871 at manifold.algebra.com>, on 01/21/98 at 11:37 PM, ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) said: >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious >> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE >> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster >> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners >> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able >> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL >> that looks like >> >> valueclick.com >> bannermall.com >> adforce.*.com/ >> bannerweb.com >> eads.com/ >> /*/sponsors/*.gif >> *banner*.gif >> /image/ads/ >> >> etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and >> Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users >> and would rather bend over for the advertisers. >I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on >the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape >browser. >There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you can take it >and modify it. I *highly* recomed taking a look at: http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ If I can't view a website using Lynx 99.9% of the time it's not worth the effort of the DL. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: What I like about MS is its loyalty to customers! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbQ249Co1n+aLhhAQG4cgQAo3bldsA3mgaQucL7qh06bkdHfbszEhix PJzuYpRwMyfwpaW51PHGB6dBbhtUnaenifQUtv9lCqxcXibArXprIaT1ZKAHxG32 dxcUvzx7gIdbgQ67e3xyaTfxALdVqD+MCd5+aoBebiPM8aA38Y6SJctdGOJJOkW5 VgjfceZDnzI= =Rpgw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alan at clueserver.org Wed Jan 21 22:18:44 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:18:44 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980121091153.034e0100@clueserver.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121220518.03c31580@clueserver.org> At 03:46 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. How do they do that from the server side? --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 22:20:11 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:20:11 +0800 Subject: Misty??? Message-ID: <199801220634.BAA28888@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty "snake-oil". Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, it quacks like a duck ....). - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I use OS/2 2.0 and I don't care who knows! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbWgY9Co1n+aLhhAQFjoQQAgRac4gm3MM1mbZUfb0jH21b7gQt1IRYR wWFilIA2am/6x+bmF3RKG64A9/iwp00rD45g2yybw91Gg3/87nEMjPBpo+DCchtb psYRKyDOTxOAr7GljOa2k4HJAfNDqjxQ56sI/4whk2PEADnpHilzln98tEJobZA7 oxZw9FeGlig= =M0fT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 22:33:46 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:33:46 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980121220518.03c31580@clueserver.org> Message-ID: <199801220647.BAA29020@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.5.32.19980121220518.03c31580 at clueserver.org>, on 01/21/98 at 10:05 PM, Alan Olsen said: >>Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends >during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to >files which are non-text based. >How do they do that from the server side? If someone can fuck with my modem settings over the "net" I will be placing a call to Boeing (formaly USR) first thing to see what they are going to do to fix it. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbZnY9Co1n+aLhhAQH7EQP/c1j6peXFu2Tf2Dk7gkA3NUtS7dkXMgAL ddUQ9OIp1t3vfuo1ywaX/cB7IuIc8HaJU1FbKCHMLtJaM5e5me/wNuAtD7cIJm9Y umsMEwhRnbcAH0TUZFJMJwEmbDk2QArrdMK1e4gXc82+XCQA96nNwYhXvg/4N9NA wtL7+DqwyU8= =5c26 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 21 23:03:59 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:03:59 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: <199801220634.BAA28888@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty >"snake-oil". > >Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft >on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). > >Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english >posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, >it quacks like a duck ....). I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for peer review. "Snake oil" is a name I reserve for, well, snake oil. Some of the recent nonsense we've seen is more snake oilish than Misty was. Of course, there should be no real interest in Misty anymore, except as an example to study, so anyone trying to promote it might be accused of peddling snake oil. As for Nobuki-san's consistently strange posts, I'm now persuaded he may be a troller. Or just not very bright. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From schear at lvdi.net Wed Jan 21 23:04:28 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:04:28 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:30 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >I was always of the understanding that the mandate for regulation of radio >and television broadcasts had to do centrally with the "allocation of >scarce resources." That is, that because there are only a finite number of >non-overlapping spectrum slots, some degree of regulation or allocation is >justified. > That was the government's justification. > >The Internet is not constrained by a finite number of slots...capacity can >be added arbitrarily (well, at least for as many decades out as we can >imagine). And consumers can, and do, pick what they choose to download or >connect to. > >The Internet is about pure speech, about publishing. For the Gore >Commission to even _hint_ at regulating it is reprehensible. The measures being discussed at are clearly not in the interests of the public but of the continued maintenance of the state's priviledged position to influence or limit speech, information flow and public opinion. The Feds cannot easily control millions of citizens directly and therefore need to create a franchise, like broadcast, whose licensees will bend to retain their priviledges. This paradigm is the same as for crypto. Since their goal is to limit access to crypto (which is most likely to find widespread acceptance only after seemless integration with common products ) and the Feds find it more difficult to control individual (e.g., cypherpunk) efforts, EAR enforcement is geared to corporations and congressional debate is steered to jobs, corporate profits and competitiveness. To the extent that civil liberties issues are raised the national security trump card is played. These attempts at regulation show just how terrified they are of true free speech and every man a publisher. --Steve From n at n.com Thu Jan 22 15:21:18 1998 From: n at n.com (n at n.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:21:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Free Hot Talk Message-ID: <199801222323.AAA07600@mx1.polbox.com> Want to talk with HOT, WET, SEXY, young girls right now? They are waiting for your call right now, and they want to MAKE YOU CUM! ARE YOU: Horney? Lonely? Out of town? Bored? Just need someone to talk to??? 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The Feds cannot easily control millions of citizens directly and >therefore need to create a franchise, like broadcast, whose licensees will >bend to retain their priviledges. > >This paradigm is the same as for crypto. Since their goal is to limit >access to crypto (which is most likely to find widespread acceptance only >after seemless integration with common products ) and the Feds find it >more difficult to control individual (e.g., cypherpunk) efforts, EAR >enforcement is geared to corporations and congressional debate is steered >to jobs, corporate profits and competitiveness. To the extent that civil >liberties issues are raised the national security trump card is played. > >These attempts at regulation show just how terrified they are of true free >speech and every man a publisher. Yes, they need "choke points" to control the anarchy. As with the British plan to license a series of "certificate authorities," or U.S. plans/wishes to do the same thing, this effectively forces all citizen-units to sign up with one of the authorized certificate issuers. (This is why certificate-based systems are so heinous.) We're seeing the pieces being put together in various ways. The new Copyright law, which felonizes even minor infringements, is one piece. The laws making it illegal to disparage food products is another. The proposed "no anonymous speech" notions are another. As with prison "trustees," or as with the forced deputizing of corporations as soldiers in the War on Drugs, we are seeing "overlords" or "sheriffs" being appointed/annointed to control their unruly underlings. Which leaves unruly Cypherpunks still running free. (Which is why I would look for signs that Congress will seek to make ISPs responsible for political speech, a la the Chinese actions. Not this year, not next, but someday. Except it won't be explicitly a law about political speech, it'll be something about dangerous information, safety of the children, etc.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 21 23:56:27 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:56:27 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220801.DAA29674@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/21/98 at 11:26 PM, Tim May said: >(Which is why I would look for signs that Congress will seek to make ISPs >responsible for political speech, a la the Chinese actions. Not this >year, not next, but someday. Except it won't be explicitly a law about >political speech, it'll be something about dangerous information, safety >of the children, etc.) I wouldn't be suprised if you start seeing ISP's closely monitoring the activity of it's users RSN. I would imagine all it will take is the SPA or COS bringing a few ISP up on criminal charges under the new Copyright laws as accesories (or co-conspiritors). A couple of "show trials" and the rest will toe the mark. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: He who laughs last uses OS/2. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbq3Y9Co1n+aLhhAQGeEgP+MbSqYmneWWv+zyCjb9ySfVv3ee9QCarb sMJqPvuEm1KhYvDuYdtkgJtb3S/224ihhY+GnHw1JFxRyk9nUvOftcPa/NwxxCe5 YXECnaPdxNVa/Nm8GnNinuE31AOTs1YY9B9BLIYIaTMtjTpjgju5Ob5UpZ47Jo7E UxFBc1K1Su8= =+gm0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Jan 22 00:14:08 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:14:08 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220815.DAA29824@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/22/98 at 02:00 AM, Tim May said: >At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >>Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty >>"snake-oil". >> >>Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft >>on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). >> >>Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english >>posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, >>it quacks like a duck ....). >I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken >apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi >for peer review. >"Snake oil" is a name I reserve for, well, snake oil. Some of the recent >nonsense we've seen is more snake oilish than Misty was. >Of course, there should be no real interest in Misty anymore, except as >an example to study, so anyone trying to promote it might be accused of >peddling snake oil. Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal at pgp.com as he seems to think it's a respectable algorithm: >>Misty is described in the proceedings of the most recent annual >>conference on fast encryption algorithms. It is designed to be provably >>resistant to linear and differential cryptanalysis. As a new set of >>algorithms (a few variants exist under the "Misty" label), it is one of >>many where a "wait and see" attitude is appropriate to see how it holds >>up. As a patented algorithm, it may have trouble competing with >>alternatives that are free of restrictions. >> >>However your charge that it is "snake-oil" seems unfounded. It appears >>to be a respectable academic development effort, within the mainstream >>of cryptographic research, and has some reasonable-looking theory behind >>it. As far as I know there has been no cryptanalysis or technical >>commentary of any sort regarding Misty on the cypherpunks mailing list. >As for Nobuki-san's consistently strange posts, I'm now persuaded he may >be a troller. Or just not very bright. I wonder if something isn't getting lost in the translation. He most definatly has not mastered the English language. I remember when I first was learning Hebrew and the number of faux pas I made. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbuII9Co1n+aLhhAQFskQP+KVSJgUQMi+3Q9vSovZRL3BLnUD08K/Vw pyilVZQUmdwW7lIlKTepFREFr1uthvRbupJp3uHyABnLICgYreuD+KrlJv4OxXy+ DFOkM7DhAiWH8KSFpGdYub9N0ClIKXsxQfWtPS6/5rl5xuHKs8/e1uH0Lfp0o9BP Plnq3Ze9XG4= =8yKO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 00:22:36 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:22:36 +0800 Subject: Candidate Blacknet Customer :-) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121183540.00840100@popd.ix.netcom.com> http://www.newsmait.com has a section called the "Newspaper Intelligence Page", which has anonymized comments from newspaper reporters about what their (current or former) newspaper working environments are like. Aside from the usual issues that any site for griping about work offers, this site provides a lot of insight into the media business - how much freedom do writers have, what kinds of topics get squashed, what the biases of the editors and management are like. The folks who run the site have some obvious concerns about lawsuits. Looks like a good candidate for a Blacknet-style web site... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 00:27:09 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:27:09 +0800 Subject: NYT compression proposal In-Reply-To: <199801190230.UAA19688@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121141039.00840100@popd.ix.netcom.com> >At 8:30 PM -0600 1/18/98, Jim Choate wrote: >>It has been proposed to compress the keys from 100 cypherpunks down >>to a 64 character add in the NYT. Obviously you can't compress the keys themselves, and if you just take a short chunk of each key, you don't have enough entropy to be useful. But you can make a file with all the keys, hash the file, and post the hash and an URL for the file. That lets you use 128 or 160 bits of hash. That's plenty of room, and has full-strength security. If you want to do a 32-character message, it's tighter; using the usual 6-bit characters, 128 bits of hash takes 22 chars, and 160 bits takes 27. If you use the btoa encoding, which puts 4 bytes of binary into 5 bytes of ascii (if the 85 characters it uses can all be printed in the NYT's fonts), that's 20 for 128 or 25 for 160. So you have up to 12 characters left. So how short a URL can you do? With some cooperation from Vince, you can probably do 2 characters - "ai", which should retrieve http://ai/index.html (currently www.ai does.). I don't know if Netscape will let you retrieve this - I tried it, and got the index page for www.ai.com, using the Netscape "try adding .com" hack. (If you use the hack, "a" is shorter, but you'll need to give the IANA a good excuse for using the a.com reserved name. And keys.com is a company in the Florida Keys, but maybe they'd be friendly.) The shortest URL that really looks like an URL is probably www.ai . If the NYT insists on a phone number, that's 10-11 characters, so you'll need a shorter hash :-) Is 64 bits enough? It's long enough that it's hard to brute-force, and you probably don't need to worry about birthday attacks, though it's still uncomfortably short. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 00:32:50 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:32:50 +0800 Subject: Other c'punk lists? In-Reply-To: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121102016.008405d0@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 03:24 PM 1/18/98 -0500, Anonymous wrote: >are there any other cypherpunk lists? With all due respect >this list has a *lot* of noise Perhaps something with- >out the anarchy. I enjoy the wild side of this list but >I would also like something more targeted. cypherpunks-announce at toad.com - announcements only. coderpunks-request at toad.com - code-related issues cryptography-request at c2.net - Perry Metzger's relatively low-noise list FCPUNX - Ray Arachelian's filtered list - about 10% of cypherpunks cypherpunks-lite - Eric Blossom's filtered list - $20/year. cypherpunks-j at htp.org (I think that's where it is.) In Japanese. various topical lists, like remailer-operators and ietf-open-pgp alt.cypherpunks, if it's not moribund yet. sci.crypt - for more technical, usually less political noise sci.crypt.research - low-volume technical Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From phelix at vallnet.com Thu Jan 22 01:07:06 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:07:06 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> On 22 Jan 1998 02:22:29 -0600, ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote: > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious >> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE >> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster >> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners >> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able >> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL >> that looks like >> >> valueclick.com >> bannermall.com >> adforce.*.com/ >> bannerweb.com >> eads.com/ >> /*/sponsors/*.gif >> *banner*.gif >> /image/ads/ >> >> etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and >> Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users >> and would rather bend over for the advertisers. > >I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on >the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > >There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you >can take it and modify it. > > - Igor. If you have a unix box, try using the roxen web/proxy server. It has a regexp module that does exactly this. http://www.roxen.com -- Phelix From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 01:13:56 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:13:56 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801201526.JAA26626@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122005300.0083b300@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 09:26 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> From: Bill Stewart >> 1) Storage of information - Storage currently costs < $1/MB for raw disk, >> and getting cheaper by the minute, > >Assuming your 5 year plan, a 1G drive costs $100 or less. That's roughly >$20/G-yr. >> The costs of the equipment for permanent storage are probably about >> 10-50% more than the costs for storing for 5 years; >A Cyrix P200 runs about $600 for a working box (I bought one just a few >weeks ago). So that gives us about $120/cpu-year. You missed my point - the cost of a CPU-year and GB-year drop rapidly every year; the costs of storage plus associated CPU for 100 years of storage are probably just a bit higher than for 5 years. >> but sysadmins, lawyers, etc. >> cost money and they're not getting cheaper as fast. >Granted, but except for the sys-admin you don't need them often. In all the >years I have been in business I've needed a lawyer only a couple of times. >Say $1k/lawyer-year. For normal businesses, that's true, but eternity servers, if they can be physically located, probably will require a bit more lawyery. >> the costs of administration (assuming inflation is limited to >> some small number) can be covered by an annuity. > >For reliable system administartion you're looking at 5 people (3 8-hr. >shifts plus weekend coverage of 2 12 hour shifts). A sys admin with the >skills and maturity to work in this environment is going to run you in >the neighborhood of $40-60k/yr. So this means we're looking at, on the >outside, $300k/sysadmin-yr. This is the real cost of doing business You're probably right, though you may not need 7x24 sysadmins, and they can share their time maintaining quite a lot of servers if they're all cookie-cutter. >Not shure what the normal ratio for online versus offline storage actualy >is currently, say 10:1. Somewhere between 10:1 and 100:1; the cost of sysadmins making tapes may be higher than the media itself :-) >> 2) Transmission of information - Roughly proportional to MB/time - >This seems overly simplistic to me. The actual cost of the bandwidth is >reasonably fixed for a given site. The price of pipes is very roughly proportional to their size. The size of the pipes you need are roughly proportional to how much data gets transmitted during your busy hour. This gets cheaper every year as well, but nowhere near as fast, and the volume depends on how interesting the data is to potential readers as well as on how big it is. > Remember, under the Eternity model >we don't know *which* server is being hit for the request. There are different models for how to run an Eternity server, but any server will need bandwidth based on how much is getting retrieved. In any case, the machine transmitting data knows which request it's responding to, even if it doesn't really know who the requester or the author are, so it's not unreasonable to charge a retrieval fee or stick on an advertising banner. >> unlike storage, this one's not predictable, unless the provider and >> author agree in advance (e.g. N free accesses per year, per password.) >> So the provider could charge the reader for access, > >I fail to see the profit in giving away plans for man portable nukes or to >turn commen cooking yeast into a THC producing horde when the various >groups around the world would pay so many millions (or would that be >billions) for some to get it and some to keep others from getting it. The >potential for a access auction hasn't been explored as far as I am aware. You might want to give away that THC recipe for free just to end the drug war, or to make supplies cheap and plentiful, or because it's a bogus recipe using your own special brand of yeast. It's the principle of the thing :-) On the other hand, if the provider of the service deliberately doesn't know what the documents on the system are, to him it's just shipping bits, and content is Somebody Else's Problem. >> or use advertising >> banners to fund retrieval costs (if that remains a valid model >> for financing the web over the next N years, especially if the >> readers retrieve data through anonymizers.) > >I believe advertising would be a necessity. The question is how. Would the >payoff for doing a print ad in a magazine be worth it? Should it only >be advertised on the net? I'm not talking about how to get users - I'm talking about those annoying banners from Doubleclick and LinkExchange that fund many of the interesting services on the net because advertisers think it's worth their money to buy impressions. >> If they want their names known, they can include them in the contents >> of the data that readers retrieve, independent of what the server does. >Then there is no reason to use an anonymous network, simply put the data on >their own webpage and sell it direct, cut out the middle-man a tried and >true business tactic. >> and accumulate reputation capital under those nyms. >One of the assumptions is that the source, individual server, and sink >are all anonymous to each other as well as Mallet. Now we're changing the >rules of the game in the middle of the game. Apples and oranges. The assumption is that True Names and physical locations are probably anonymous. Doesn't mean that a reader is going to retrieve documents of unknown content by unknown authors - you may very well know that Zed WareMeister has the best deal on slightly-used Microsoft Products and can be found on alt.eternity.warez, and his reputation capital accumulates under the pseudonym rather than his True Name. But there will also be authors whose names are well-known but whose locations aren't - Salmon Rushdie may be selling digitally signed copies of his latest book online, but he still doesn't want to be easy to find. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From csm70830 at port.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 03:12:58 1998 From: csm70830 at port.ac.uk (Paul Bradley) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:12:58 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2EFF7EEF@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk> > Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > to be developed. Ultra sushi maximum of 10000000000 earth fishes chop-chopped. 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If you have received this e-mail solicitation and live outside the United States of America, please accept our apology and disregard this message. Thank you. From stutz at dsl.org Thu Jan 22 06:30:06 1998 From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:30:06 +0800 Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: <199801210243.DAA05915@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > Bill Stewart wrote: > > > At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: > > >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive > > >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the > > >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but > > >it is as far as I could get. > > > > > >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to > > >cash in on the free programs that he writes? > > > > There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. > > There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. > > There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > > charge money to companies that use it. > > There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. > > There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > > filters money back to you. > > There's the Intel model - give away software to sell new hardware. > There's the Linus Torvalds model - people pay you to speak at conferences. > There's the w3c model - pay money if you want it now, or wait and get it for > free next month. > There's the book model - give away the software and sell the documentation. > There's the PGP model - give it away until it becomes popular, then sell it. There's the FSF model - give it away and ask for donations, but offer expensive "bundles" that are bought by enlightened companies and/or enlightened Dilberts at un-enlightened companies. There's the Red Hat model - give it away on an ftp site but charge for a nice package with manual and support. There's the Aladdin model - give away old versions but the latest is non-free. There's the GNU ADA model - form a corporation to develop free software, and sell support contracts. If you are interested in hack value and benefits to humanity, you are probably best off avoiding the proprietary and shareware software models (the two which will generally get you the most money, incidentally). But this does not mean that you cannot write commercial software that is free; see . It is worth noting that freeware does not necessarily have to be free of charge; the important thing is that it be _freed_ software, or "libre" software -- as opposed to "gratis" software. > ...and then there's the Microsoft model - give away 'free' software and > charge for the OS to run it... From hoilu46 at concentric.net Thu Jan 22 22:35:06 1998 From: hoilu46 at concentric.net (hoilu46 at concentric.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:35:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hi !!! Message-ID: <199801224407XAA38296@post.172.112.2> Hi baby, I'm Christy. Cum join my girlfriends and I for some Live Erotic Chat!! We we're so naughty they banned us from the U.S.A!!!! We're so hot and horny we can't wait to get it on with you!! Call us at, 011-378-656-346. That's 011-378-656-346!! We'll be waiting ....... International rates apply. You be 18 or older to use this service. From stutz at dsl.org Thu Jan 22 07:13:38 1998 From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:13:38 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious > > feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. > I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > > There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you > can take it and modify it. Try this: /sbin/route add -net 199.95.207.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 lo /sbin/route add -net 199.95.208.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 lo Goodbye doubleclick.net. ... Repeat as necessary with other ad networks. I wrote an init.d script for Debian GNU/Linux that automagically handles this for a couple ad networks, if you're intersted. Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz at dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ From kelsey at plnet.net Thu Jan 22 07:36:48 1998 From: kelsey at plnet.net (John Kelsey) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:36:48 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium Message-ID: <199801221532.JAA28790@email.plnet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 01/21/98 ## Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium ] >Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium >From: Adam Back >Date: 1998/01/18 >1. communications crypto used by the author in submitting > the document is broken This is only a threat if the authorities have a good idea who submitted the data, and want to prove it. Otherwise, you end up with billions of encrypted documents, each encrypted with a moderately weak cipher. (Even assuming that the cipher turns out to have only 40 bits of strength, this is too expensive to do for more than a handful of documents.) >2. the eternity architecture contains encrypted documents to > frustrate attempts to locate documents, and to hide the > contents of documents from individual servers Again, this won't be too economical unless the eternity service is rarely used. >3. communications crypto used to request and deliver > documents is broken thus revealing the readers identity >So it is useful to design upgrade paths for ciphers into the >protocols where possible. Definitely--this is always a good idea, right? >Other approaches we could take are to use very conservative >cipher key sizes and protocols combining multiple ciphers in >ways which gives us the security of the best of the ciphers. >For example: > R = random, C = 5DES( R ) || blowfish-484( M xor R ) >Where 5DES is say E-D-E-D-E with 5 independent DES keys. >Constructs to combine in strong ways hash functions, macs, >symmetric and asymmetric ciphers would be useful. Is there >much research in this area? Yes. Massey and Maurer did a Journal of Cryptography paper titled ``The Importance of Being First,'' which says that in any chain of encryptions with different ciphers and independent keys, such as E_1(E_2(E_3(data))), the whole thing is provably as strong as the first cipher used on the data (E_3, in my example above). This is really obvious, when you reflect that an attacker can always try to break data encrypted with E_3 by superencrypting it with E_1 and E_2, and then mounting his attack on E_1(E_2(E_3(data))). Of course, if keys aren't independent among the three ciphers, then you don't get any guarantee of this kind. The other thing to note is that if you're just generating keystream sequences, as you would with RC4 or SEAL, then all ciphers are ``first.'' Rivest and Sherman also did some work on randomized encryption, of the kind you discuss, in the Crypto '82 proceedings. Your construction is very similar to one of theirs. Let M = message and R = a message-sized random number, then in E_1(R), E_2(R XOR M) both E_1 and E_2 must be broken to learn M. (Imagine this isn't the case, then either E_1 or E_2 wasn't broken. If you didn't break E_2 but broke E_1, then you only learn R, which is useless to you--it's random and uncorrelated with M. If you broke E_2 but not E_1, you would have a message encrypted with a one-time pad.) This generalizes nicely to E_1(R1), E_2(R2), ..., E_N(RN), E_{N+1}(R1 XOR R2 XOR ... XOR M). If those random numbers are really random, then if any one of those ciphers resists your attacks, the message can't be recovered. Now, you can also do this with things that approximate random functions, which they also discuss. Thus, you might use: f_1(),f_2(), ..., f_n() are N independently-keyed different cryptographic functions that approximate random functions. The funny thing is, if you instantiate this intelligently, you get a message encrypted by N different stream ciphers, perhaps with a random parameter per message thrown in during keying of those ciphers. Thus, suppose s_1(K1) = RC4(K1) s_2(K2) = 3DES-OFB(K2) s_3(K3) = SHA1-Counter-Mode(K3) s_4(K4) = Blowfish-OFB(K4) s_5(K5) = SAFER-SK128(K5). and that these keys are different per message and are all independent. Then, you get the result that M XOR s_1(K1) XOR S_2(k2) XOR ... XOR s_5(k5). leaves no way to recover M unless all five s_i() can be guessed. Note that, in practice, this isn't likely to be useful unless you've done the same kind of thing for symmetric key distribution, random number generation, etc. Otherwise, your attacker in 2050 will bypass the symmetric encryption entirely and factor your RSA modulus, or guess all the entropy sources used for your PRNG, or whatever else you can think of. The good news, though, is that active attacks (like chosen input attacks) and many side-channel attacks (e.g., timing attacks) turn out not to be possible if you are trying to mount them after the encryption has been carried out. >Adam - --John Kelsey, kelsey at counterpane.com / kelsey at plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNMeCqSZv+/Ry/LrBAQGxpgQAloxNjdZMf6l/7U520ZSIVuk7lFZcu0+J 5tUyQgHtS4EAplC1OBnYc8B3pzCir6VCXinmNbClgalXhrRFfmV7vTQLZySaVv/+ 0T44TFkJ0Ldu4cTsA2ertL0jcCXiBp38mhVK2IFbPtN+04B+een8jrUYtzx/qIj5 ztBpBb4yil8= =wBTR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From adam at homeport.org Thu Jan 22 07:53:32 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:53:32 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: <199801220634.BAA28888@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <199801221545.KAA09941@homeport.org> Carlisle Adams included it in his list of interesting cipherss in his talk at RSA. Lars Knudsen's Block Cipher Lounge does not list any known attacks. http://www.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/~knudsen/bc Matsui, its designer, is not stupid. He did the linear cryptanalysis of DES, which I think was the invention of linear cryptanalysis. Adam William H. Geiger III wrote: | Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty | "snake-oil". | | Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft | on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). | | Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english | posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, | it quacks like a duck ....). -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From adam at homeport.org Thu Jan 22 08:00:57 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:00:57 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801221554.KAA09992@homeport.org> Tim May wrote: | At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: | >Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english | >posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, | >it quacks like a duck ....). | | I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken | apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for | peer review. Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? Adam ObCypherpunk: I think that 9mm is far superior to .45 due to its lower recoil. -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From MAILER-DAEMON at chemistry.ohio-state.edu Fri Jan 23 00:24:44 1998 From: MAILER-DAEMON at chemistry.ohio-state.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:24:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-ID: <199801230824.DAA08829@chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu> The original message was received at Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:24:38 -0500 (EST) from ts26-15.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.54] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to eureka.abc-web.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1) 550 ... User unknown Reporting-MTA: dns; chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu Received-From-MTA: DNS; ts26-15.homenet.ohio-state.edu Arrival-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:24:38 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; eureka-unsubscribe at eureka.abc-web.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; eureka.abc-web.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1) Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:24:40 -0500 (EST) To: eureka-unsubscribe at eureka.abc-web.com Subject: (no subject) From: cypherpunks at toad.com Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:04:05 -0800 From 59528925 at aol.com Fri Jan 23 00:29:44 1998 From: 59528925 at aol.com (59528925 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:29:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: NEED A BRAND NEW CAR??? Message-ID: <>

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From ericm at lne.com Thu Jan 22 09:06:11 1998 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:06:11 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801221652.IAA05481@slack.lne.com> Igor Chudov @ home writes: > > > to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL > > that looks like > > > > valueclick.com > > bannermall.com > > adforce.*.com/ > > bannerweb.com > > eads.com/ > > /*/sponsors/*.gif > > *banner*.gif > > /image/ads/ > > > > etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and > > Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users > > and would rather bend over for the advertisers. > > I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > > There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you > can take it and modify it. > I've already done the work: http://www.lne.com/ericm/cookie_jar/ It'll block cookies, accepting them from a specific list of sites. It blocks the outgoing requests for ads, on a (regex-controlled) host or URL basis. So you don't bother to download ads, saving you from seeing them and wasting the bandwidth downloading them. As an example, my .cookiejarrc file currently holds: denyhost *.doubleclick.net advertising.quote.com commonwealth.riddler.com denyhost *.linkexchange.com *.pagecount.com images.yahoo.com www.missingkids.org denyhost ads.*.com ad.*.com adforce.imgis.com www.bannerswap.com denyhost *.flycast.com/ songline.com:1971/ denyurl /ads/* /ads/images/* *sponsors/redirect/* */bin/statthru* */AdID=* denyurl /adv/* /sponsors2/* */ad-bin/ad* /advertising/* */livetopics_anim.gif* denyurl /Banners/* /shared/images/ad/* /sponsors3/* /adverts/* /free/FarSight/* denyurl /ad/ /*ad*.focalink.com/ It'll let you selectively block sending the User-agent line in the HTTP request, and will let you randomly select from a list of User-agents that you supply if you want to mess up site's data collection schemes. And you can choose to block sending anything but the Accept and Pragma lines in the HTTP request for more privacy. -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 22 09:09:47 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:09:47 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: phelix at vallnet.com writes: > On 22 Jan 1998 02:22:29 -0600, ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) > wrote: > > > > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvi > >> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE > >> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster > >> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners > >> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be ab > >> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL > >> that looks like > >> > >> valueclick.com > >> bannermall.com > >> adforce.*.com/ > >> bannerweb.com > >> eads.com/ > >> /*/sponsors/*.gif > >> *banner*.gif > >> /image/ads/ > >> > >> etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and > >> Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING user > >> and would rather bend over for the advertisers. > > > >I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > >the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > > > >There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you > >can take it and modify it. > > > > - Igor. > > If you have a unix box, try using the roxen web/proxy server. It has a > regexp module that does exactly this. http://www.roxen.com Thanks guys!! I'm now using the junkbusters proxy servers for this very purpose. It works fine. I just think that this should be a function of any decent browser, without requiring the extra overhead of a proxy server. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 22 09:12:43 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:12:43 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:54 AM -0800 1/22/98, Adam Shostack wrote: >Tim May wrote: >| At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: > >| >Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english >| >posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, >| >it quacks like a duck ....). >| >| I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken >| apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for >| peer review. > >Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? > No, as I was thinking of FEAL when I wrote about MISTY. Sorry for any confusion. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jan 22 09:26:26 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:26:26 +0800 Subject: Financial Cryptography '98 Preliminary Program Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:41:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: online.offshore.com.ai: list set sender to fc98-request at offshore.com.ai using -f Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:25:40 +0100 (MET) From: Ray Hirschfeld To: R.Hirschfeld at cwi.nl Subject: Financial Cryptography '98 Preliminary Program Resent-From: fc98 at offshore.com.ai X-Mailing-List: archive/latest X-Loop: fc98 at offshore.com.ai Precedence: list Resent-Sender: fc98-request at offshore.com.ai Financial Cryptography '98 Second International Conference February 23-25, 1998, Anguilla, BWI CONFERENCE PROGRAM General Information: Financial Cryptography '98 (FC98) is a conference on the security of digital financial transactions. Meetings alternate between the island of Anguilla in the British West Indies and other locations. This second meeting will be held in Anguilla on February 23-25, 1998. FC98 aims to bring together persons involved in both the financial and data security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas. Original papers were solicited on all aspects of financial data security and digital commerce in general. Program Committee: Matt Blaze, AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA Antoon Bosselaers, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Leuven, Belgium Yves Carlier, Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland Walter Effross, Washington College of Law, American U., Washington DC, USA Matthew Franklin (Co-Chair), AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA Michael Froomkin, U. Miami School of Law, Coral Gables, FL, USA Rafael Hirschfeld (Chair), Unipay Technologies, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Alain Mayer, Bell Laboratories/Lucent Technologies, Murray Hill, NJ, USA Moni Naor, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel Frank Trotter, Mark Twain Ecash/Mercantile Bank, St. Louis, MO, USA Doug Tygar, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA Moti Yung, CertCo LLC (formerly: Bankers Trust E-Commerce), New York, NY, USA Conference Program for FC98: Monday 23 February 1998 800 -- 820 Breakfast 820 -- 830 Welcome 830 -- 905 Micropayments via Efficient Coin-Flipping Richard J. Lipton (Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, USA) Rafail Ostrovsky (Bellcore, Morristown, NJ, USA) 905 -- 940 X-Cash: Executable Digital Cash Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, Bedford, MA, USA) 940 -- 1015 Billing Without Paper...Or Billing Without Billers? Caveat Biller: 3rd Party Concentrators Could Come Between You and Your Customers Richard K. Crone (CyberCash, Reston, VA, USA) 1015 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 A Platform for Privately Defined Currencies, Loyalty Credits, and Play Money David P. Maher (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1120 -- 1155 Assessment of Threats for Smart Card Based Electronic Cash Kazuo J. Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski (Mondex International, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1155 -- 1230 Using a High-Performance, Programmable Secure Coprocessor Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, NY, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 1800 -- 1930 Cocktail Reception (at Mariners Hotel) Tuesday 24 February 1998 800 -- 830 Breakfast 830 -- 905 Secure Group Barter: Multi-Party Fair Exchange with Semi-Trusted Neutral Parties Matt Franklin (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) Gene Tsudik (USC Information Sciences Institute, Marina del Rey, CA, USA) 905 -- 940 A Payment Scheme Using Vouchers Ernest Foo, Colin Boyd (Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Australia) 940 -- 1015 A Formal Specification of Requirements for Payment Transactions in the SET Protocol Catherine Meadows, Paul Syverson (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA) 1015 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 On Assurance Structures for WWW Commerce Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA) 1120 -- 1230 Panel Discussion Certificate Revocation: Mechanics and Meaning Barb Fox (Microsoft, Redmond, WA, USA), moderator Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) Paul Kocher (Valicert, Palo Alto, CA, USA) Michael Myers (Verisign, Mountain View, CA, USA) Ron Rivest (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 2000 -- 2200 Rump Session Wednesday 25 February 1998 800 -- 830 Breakfast 830 -- 930 Invited Speaker Private Signatures and E-commerce David Chaum (DigiCash, Palo Alto, CA, USA) 930 -- 1005 Group Blind Digital Signatures: A Scalable Solution to Electronic Cash Anna Lysyanskaya, Zulfikar Ramzan (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA) 1005 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 Curbing Junk E-Mail via Secure Classification Eran Gabber, Markus Jakobsson, Yossi Matias, Alain Mayer (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) 1120 -- 1155 Publicly Verifiable Lotteries: Applications of Delaying Functions David M. Goldschlag (Divx, Herndon, VA, USA) Stuart G. Stubblebine (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1155 -- 1230 Security of Digital Watermarks Lesley R. Matheson, Stephen G. Mitchell, Talal G. Shamoon, Robert E. Tarjan, Francis X. Zane (STAR Lab, InterTrust Technologies, Sunnyvale, CA, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 1330 -- 1405 Security in the Java Electronic Commerce Framework Surya Koneru, Ted Goldstein (JavaSoft, Palo Alto, CA, USA) 1405 -- 1440 Beyond Identity: Warranty-Based Digital Signature Transactions Yair Frankel, David W. Kravitz, Charles T. Montgomery, Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA) 1440 -- 1515 Compliance Checking in the PolicyMaker Trust Management System Matt Blaze, Joan Feigenbaum, Martin Strauss (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1515 -- 1545 Coffee Break 1545 -- 1620 An Efficient Fair Off-Line Electronic Cash System with Extensions to Checks and Wallets with Observers Aymeric de Solages, Jacque Traore (France Telecom--CNET, Caen, France) 1620 -- 1655 An Efficient Untraceable Electronic Money System Based on Partially Blind Signatures of the Discrete Logarithm Problem Shingo Mayazaki, Kouichi Sakurai (Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan) 1655 -- 1700 Closing The conference schedule and additional information is available at the URL http://www.cwi.nl/conferences/FC98/. Breakfast and lunch are provided at the conference. The conference organizers have left time open for corporate sponsored events, for networking, and for recreational activities on the resort island of Anguilla. Participants are encouraged to bring their families. Workshop: A 40-hour workshop, intended for anyone with commercial software development experience who wants hands-on familiarity with the issues and technology of financial cryptography, is planned in conjunction with FC98, to be held during the week following the conference. For more information on the workshop, please see the URL http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~iang/fc98/workshop.html. For workshop registration, see the URL http://fc98.ai/. Special Attraction: On Thursday, February 26, 1998, there will be a total eclipse of the sun. The narrow zone of 100% totality will pass just south of Anguilla. A boat excursion to the center of the eclipse zone is planned, for an optimal view of the eclipse. The excursion is included in the conference registration; additional tickets can be purchased for accompanying persons. Venue: The Inter-Island Hotel is a small 14-room guest house with a large, comfortable 150-seat conference facility and additional space for a small 10-booth exhibition. The Inter-Island is on Road Bay, near Sandy Ground Village, in the South Hill section of Anguilla. The conference, workshop, and exhibition will have TCP/IP internet access. Shuttle service to the conference will be available. Air Transportation and Hotels: Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan for US flights, or St. Maarten/Martin for flights from Europe and the US. There are also connections via Antigua. Anguillan import duties are not imposed on hardware or software which will leave the island again. There are no other taxes--or cryptography import/export restrictions--on Anguilla. Hotels range from spartan to luxurious, and more information about hotels on Anguilla can be obtained from your travel agent, or at the URL http://fc98.ai/. A block reservation has been made at Mariners, and this is the recommended hotel except for those seeking budget accomodations. General Chairs: Robert Hettinga, Shipwright, Boston, MA, USA email: rah at shipwright.com Vincent Cate, Offshore Information Services, Anguilla, BWI email: vince at offshore.com.ai Exhibits and Sponsorship Manager: Blanc Weber, Seattle, WA, USA email: blancw at cnw.com Workshop Leader: Ian Goldberg, Berkeley, CA, USA email: iang at cs.berkeley.edu Registration: You can register and pay for conference admission via the World Wide Web at the URL http://fc98.ai/. The cost of the FC98 Conference is US$1,000. There are reduced rates of US$250 and US$100 for full-time academics and students. Booths for the exhibition start at US$5,000 and include two conference tickets. For more information about exhibit space, contact Blanc Weber, blancw at cnw.com. Sponsorship opportunities for FC98 are still available. The cost of the workshop is US$5000, and includes meals but not lodging. You can register for the workshop, which runs the week after the conference, at the URL http://fc98.ai/. Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the International Association for Cryptologic Research. It is sponsored by: RSA Data Security Inc. C2NET, Inc. Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank Offshore Information Services e$ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From honig at otc.net Thu Jan 22 09:34:12 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:34:12 +0800 Subject: Cybersitter censors code Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122092119.007e9310@206.40.207.40> >--------------- Forwarded Message -------------- >From: rpj at ise.canberra.edu.au (Ross Johnson) > >Well, I just spent several hours tracking something down that I think >is SO braindead that it must be called evil. I hope this will save >someone else some hassle. > >There's an NT box on my desk that someone else uses every now and then. >This machine is otherwise used as my programming box and backup server. > >All of a sudden, my programming files were being corrupted in odd >places. I thought "hmm, my copy must be corrupt". So I refreshed the >files. No change. "hmm, the code depot copy must be corrupt".. Checked >from other machines. No problem there. Viewed the file from a web based >change browser in Internet Explorer. Same corruption in the file. >Telnet'd to the server machine and just cat'd the file to the terminal. >Same problem. > >What's going on? > >The lines that were corrupted were of the form >#define one 1 /* foo menu */ >#define two 2 /* bar baz */ > >What I always saw ON THIS MACHINE ONLY was: >#define one 1 /* foo */ ># fine two 2 /* bar baz */ > >Can you guess what was happening? > >Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage >called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet >content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and >watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense >word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if >there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" >without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and >stupid. > >It also didn't like the method name "RefreshItems" in another file, >since there is obviously a swear word embedded in there. Sheesh. > >It's so bad it's almost funny. Hope this brightens your day as much as >it brighted mine :-). ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu ""The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 22 10:23:35 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:23:35 +0800 Subject: Misty??? Message-ID: <199801221755.SAA04504@basement.replay.com> Adam Back wrote: > Tim May wrote: > | I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken > | apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for > | peer review. > > Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? Adam, you should know better than to ask. Everyone knows you can't trust a bigot to do cryptography. Tim "Chop Chop" May's opinions about Misty are based not on the strength of the cipher, but on the ethnicity of the creator. On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:09:15, Tim May wrote: > At 9:30 PM -0700 9/11/97, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Does anybody know MITSUBISHI MISTY algorithm ? > >If you know it,Please send e-mail to me. > > > > You want me play Misty for you? You send me $2500, I play Misty. > > Like you do, I take much money, chop chop. > > (Now shut the fuck up and get the hell off our list with your demands for > money to explain your bullshit one time pad scheme.) From mclow at owl.csusm.edu Thu Jan 22 11:32:50 1998 From: mclow at owl.csusm.edu (Marshall Clow) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:32:50 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 8:36 PM -0800 1/21/98, Bill Frantz wrote: >At 12:30 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >>At 1:34 PM -0800 1/20/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 >>>From: Alan Moseley >>>To: declan at well.com >>>Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media >>> >>>The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the >>>future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed >>>signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media >>>that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. >>>... >>> The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act >>>demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The > //eagerness >>>digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such >>>interventions, Maines warned. >> >>Just because the Internet can deliver audio and video signals is hardly a >>matter of "allocating scarce resources." Video rental stores can also >>deliver video signals, but there is no (well, modulo the "obscenity" laws >>in various communities) regulation of these sources. > >Presumably they intend to also regulate live theater. It can also deliver >audio and video. FUBAR. > Nope. Just places that rent or sell DVDs and CDs. "Other Digital Media". FUBAR, indeed. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 11:55:48 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:55:48 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122093613.00842e90@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 12:30 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >The Internet is about pure speech, about publishing. For the Gore >Commission to even _hint_ at regulating it is reprehensible. You know better than that, Tim - The Internet is about Commerce! The military started it, federal funding for universities made it popular, Physicists working for Foreign Governments and grad students at US government universities made the Web, and Big Commerce made it grow. It's all Federal Interest - trust them! And besides, IPv4 addresses _are_ a scarce resource that needs to be allocated for the public good, and IPv6 has to be stopped because it will devalue the addresses given to IPv4 users (which would be an unconstitutional "taking" of their entitlements) not to mention because it supports technology that could support narcoterrorist agents of foreign governments and money-laundering father-raping pornographers. >Video rental stores can also >deliver video signals, but there is no >(well, modulo the "obscenity" laws in various communities) >regulation of these sources. There's also regulation against revealing the rental records of individual customers (at least customers named Bork or Thomas), except to accommodate the legitimate needs of law endorsement or advertising. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 11:55:49 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:55:49 +0800 Subject: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes In-Reply-To: <01BD260F.23755960@d850.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122103026.00844e80@popd.ix.netcom.com> Wiring houses/business/etc. together simply for the purpose of mixes is difficult enough that it won't happen enough to be significant. On the other hand, cable modems keep claiming that they'll be widely deployed Real Soon Now, and at least some of the cable modem versions seem to support communications between users on the same cable or same chunk of the cable network, and may provide a useful medium, especially if broadcasts/multicasts are available. On a smaller scale, there are increasing numbers of office buildings that come with internet access, and the occasional Palo Alto apartment building is cooperatively wired. At 01:48 AM 1/21/98 +-5-30, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh wrote: >besides, if such technology becomes widespread in, say, the US, >then it's inevitable that the authorities will tend towards more >_real_ tyrannical behaviour, diluting search/seizure protections and >taking you closer to china. a weak vaccine > _strengthens_ the microbe it is supposed to kill. We've certainly seen that in the Drug Wars, with no-knock searches and similar attacks. On the other hand, use of search warrants in the US has always been honored more in the breach than the observance - the year before the Supreme Court issued the Exclusionary Rule, the New York City police didn't bother getting any search warrants, because the Constitutional requirement that they do so didn't have any real enforcement mechanism. However, LAMs and similar technology have the value that the police may not notice all the users in a cluster, especially passive lurkers, and the disappearance of multiple nodes allows the non-seized systems to get their data out to another data haven and clean up. Lurkers may be passive on the LAM, but forward data received from it out to other media. Running network protocols without ACKs takes a bit of work to get right, but you can run the ACKs in some outside channel to make sure you get everything; much of the work on multicast protocols can be used to implement it. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 11:56:56 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:56:56 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122082106.00797db0@popd.ix.netcom.com> For now, most of those services all live on machines dedicated to the banner service, rather than on the same machine as the server. Making machines vanish is easy - put them in your hosts file as aliases to 127.0.0.2, and if you're behind a proxy server, put them on your "no proxy" list. Of course, if everybody starts doing this, then more systems will start using ad servers that have names in their own domain, but it works for now on most of the major servers. I've found that killing doubleclick.net and linkexchange.com gets rid of most of the banners. What I'd really like to see in a browser is an option to turn off animated GIFs (other than by killing all images.) >>> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious >>> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE >>> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster >>> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners >>> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able >>> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL >>> that looks like >>> >>> valueclick.com >>> bannermall.com ... >>I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on >>the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. >> >>There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you >>can take it and modify it. > >If you have a unix box, try using the roxen web/proxy server. It has a >regexp module that does exactly this. http://www.roxen.com Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 22 11:59:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:59:48 +0800 Subject: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) Message-ID: <199801221953.NAA09086@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:30:26 -0800 > Original-From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes > the year before the Supreme Court issued the Exclusionary Rule, > the New York City police didn't bother getting any search warrants, > because the Constitutional requirement that they do so didn't have > any real enforcement mechanism. Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of the government? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 12:03:48 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:03:48 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <19980121.080832.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122094933.00844100@popd.ix.netcom.com> >Jack Aaron's, the commodities division of Goldman Sachs, controls inter alia >like 99% of US coffee supply. if you try to circumvent their monopoly, >by trying to import a material amount of coffee, whether it's the cheap shit >for proles or the high-end caffeine fix from Kenya, you and your suppliers >just might find yourself in a lot more trouble that the computer manusfacturers >who were reluctant to put the free mickeysoft browser on their dekstop. >Why doesn't DOJ come down on Goldman Sachs? Does it have anything to do with >the fact that a Goldman Sachs partner is in Clinton's cabinet? Yow - talk about threats to the Computer Industry - Controlling our Coffee Supply can affect the productivity of the Entire Country! These Monopolists are after our precious bodily fluids! BTW, if you've ever been to Sacramento, CA, that hive of villiany and stupidity, there's apparently a law or custom which says that nobody may make or sell any coffee strong enough to wake up a government bureaucrat... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From root at fountainhead.net Thu Jan 22 12:28:22 1998 From: root at fountainhead.net (root) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:28:22 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed Message-ID: <199801230129.BAA02808@fountainhead.net> [Press Releases] http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET BOLD MOVE TO HARNESS CREATIVE POWER OF THOUSANDS OF INTERNET DEVELOPERS; COMPANY MAKES NETSCAPE NAVIGATOR AND COMMUNICATOR 4.0 IMMEDIATELY FREE FOR ALL USERS, SEEDING MARKET FOR ENTERPRISE AND NETCENTER BUSINESSES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (January 22, 1998) -- Netscape Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: NSCP) today announced bold plans to make the source code for the next generation of its highly popular Netscape Communicator client software available for free licensing on the Internet. The company plans to post the source code beginning with the first Netscape Communicator 5.0 developer release, expected by the end of the first quarter of 1998. This aggressive move will enable Netscape to harness the creative power of thousands of programmers on the Internet by incorporating their best enhancements into future versions of Netscape's software. This strategy is designed to accelerate development and free distribution by Netscape of future high-quality versions of Netscape Communicator to business customers and individuals, further seeding the market for Netscape's enterprise solutions and Netcenter business. In addition, the company is making its currently available Netscape Navigator and Communicator Standard Edition 4.0 software products immediately free for all users. With this action, Netscape makes it easier than ever for individuals at home, at school or at work to choose the world's most popular Internet client software as their preferred interface to the Internet. "The time is right for us to take the bold action of making our client free - and we are going even further by committing to post the source code for free for Communicator 5.0," said Jim Barksdale, Netscape's president and chief executive officer. "By giving away the source code for future versions, we can ignite the creative energies of the entire Net community and fuel unprecedented levels of innovation in the browser market. Our customers can benefit from world-class technology advancements; the development community gains access to a whole new market opportunity; and Netscape's core businesses benefit from the proliferation of the market-leading client software." Netscape plans to make Netscape Communicator 5.0 source code available for modification and redistribution beginning later this quarter with the first developer release of the product. The company will handle free source distribution with a license which allows source code modification and redistribution and provides for free availability of source code versions, building on the heritage of the GNU Public License (GPL), familiar to developers on the Net. Netscape intends to create a special Web site service where all interested parties can download the source code, post their enhancements, take part in newsgroup discussions, and obtain and share Communicator-related information with others in the Internet community. Netscape will also continue to develop new technologies and offer periodic certified, high-quality, supported releases of its Netscape Communicator and Navigator products, incorporating some of the best features created by this dynamic community. The ubiquity of Netscape's client software facilitates Netscape's strategy of linking millions of individuals to businesses. Today's announcements will help to further proliferate Netscape's award-winning client software which today has an installed base of more than 68 million, providing a ready market for businesses using Netscape's Networked Enterprise software solutions and Netscape Netcenter services. Netscape's research indicates that in the education market where Netscape's products are free, the Netscape client software commands approximately 90 percent share, indicating that users tend to choose Netscape when the choice is freely available. Making its browser software free also will enable Netscape to continue to drive Internet standards, maximize the number of users on the Internet, and expand the third-party community of companies and products that take advantage of the Netscape software platform. Netscape has successfully shifted its business over the past year toward enterprise software sales and to revenues from its Web site business, and away from standalone client revenues. In the third quarter of 1997, standalone client revenues represented approximately 18 percent of Netscape's revenue, with the rest coming from enterprise software, services and the Web site. Preliminary results for the fourth quarter of 1997, which Netscape announced January 5, show standalone client revenues decreased to approximately 13 percent in the fourth quarter. In the fourth quarter of 1996 by comparison, standalone client revenue represented approximately 45 percent of Netscape's revenue. In conjunction with its free client, Netscape separately announced today that it is launching a host of enhanced products and services that leverage its free client software to make it easy for enterprise and individual customers to adopt Netscape solutions. The new products and services reinforce Netscape's strategy of leveraging market penetration of its popular client software and its busy Internet site to seed further sales of Netscape software solutions in the home and business markets. The new products and services include enhanced subscription and support packages, an investment protection program for Netscape Communicator users, new reduced pricing on Netscape's retail and enterprise client products, new Premium Services on its Netscape Netcenter online service and Netscape SuiteSpot server software upgrades featuring Netscape client software. In addition, the company separately announced the launch of an aggressive new software distribution program called "Unlimited Distribution" to broadly distribute its market-leading Internet client software for free. Unlimited Distribution enables Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), Internet Service Providers (ISPs), telecommunications companies, Web content providers, publishers and software developers to download and redistribute Netscape Communicator and Netscape Navigator easily with "no strings attached." In addition, beginning immediately, individual users can download Netscape Communicator or Navigator for free, register for Netscape Netcenter and, beginning tomorrow, enter the Choose Netscape Sweepstakes to win exciting travel-related prizes including a grand prize of two all-inclusive, seven-night tropical resort vacations. Individuals can download a free copy of Netscape Communicator client software or the Netscape Navigator browser from the Netscape home page at http://home.netscape.com, or by clicking on any of the thousands of "Netscape Now" buttons on the Internet. Netscape Communicator Professional Edition, which adds features for enterprise customers, will be available for US$29. Netscape Communications Corporation is a premier provider of open software for linking people and information over enterprise networks and the Internet. The company offers a full line of Netscape Navigator clients, servers, development tools and commercial applications to create a complete platform for next-generation, live online applications. Traded on NASDAQ under the symbol "NSCP," Netscape Communications Corporation is based in Mountain View, California. Additional information on Netscape Communications Corporation is available on the Internet at http://home.netscape.com, by sending email to info at netscape.com or by calling 650/937-2555 (corporate customers) or 650/937-3777 (individuals). Netscape is a trademark of Netscape Communications Corporation, which is registered in the United States and other jurisdictions. Netscape Communications, the Netscape Communications logo, Netscape Navigator, Netscape SuiteSpot, Netscape Composer, Netscape Messenger and Netscape Communicator are trademarks of Netscape Communications Corporation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Corporate Sales: 650/937-2555 � Corporate Renewal Sales: 650/937-2929 � Personal Sales: 650/937-3777 � Government Sales: 650/937-3678 � Education Sales: 650/937-2810 If you have any questions, please visit Customer Service, or contact your nearest sales office. Copyright � 1998 Netscape Communications Corporation. This site powered by Netscape SuiteSpot servers. From ryan at michonline.com Thu Jan 22 12:46:10 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:46:10 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. But any modern modem has v.42bis, and with v.42bis it automatically shuts off the compression anyway! (Maybe that was just v.42, I forget, but it doesn't have the problems that MNP5 has with compressed files) Either way, this feature already exists.... Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123085734.0082eda0@cnw.com> bill.stewart at pobox.com wrote: >You know better than that, Tim - The Internet is about Commerce! >The military started it, federal funding for universities made >it popular, Physicists working for Foreign Governments and >grad students at US government universities made the Web, >and Big Commerce made it grow. It's all Federal Interest - trust them! ...................................................................... You know, I wonder why they didn't think about the Federal Interest and the Legitimate Needs of Government when all this was going on back then. Are universities, students, and Physicists working for Foreign Governments any more (or less) trustworthy than anyone else? Was there no secrecy at all, when all these people - especially the scientists - were communicating no such open networks? I guess The Authorities also, among other things, didn't expect encryption (PGP) to grow as it did. .. Blanc From ryan at michonline.com Thu Jan 22 12:51:30 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:51:30 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > to be developed. > Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. > It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years > with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. For reference, my head hurts after trying to read this. Can you provide any sources for this information? I would prefer a url, but a book or magazine would be fine. Is this supposed to compete with Intels 9000 processor Pentium Pro cluster? Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Anonymous wrote: |Adam Back wrote: Well, for the record, that was me, not Mr. Back, but who can tell the difference? |> Tim May wrote: |> | I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken |> | apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for |> | peer review. |> |> Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? | |Adam, you should know better than to ask. Everyone knows you can't |trust a bigot to do cryptography. Tim "Chop Chop" May's opinions about |Misty are based not on the strength of the cipher, but on the ethnicity |of the creator. Its clear to me that Nobuki baits Tim, and Tim baits Nobuki. Its not as entertaining as the Detwieler days (where we would have gotten the claimn that Tim and Nobuki were the same), but hey.. I'm perfectly happy to let bigots do my cryptanalysis for me. As long as they get positive results, hey, I'm more secure. Not believing that the Americans could break German engineering was one of the failures of the Enigma team. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From ryan at michonline.com Thu Jan 22 13:02:04 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:02:04 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: <199801220815.DAA29824@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: > Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm > id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my > post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal at pgp.com as he seems to think > it's a respectable algorithm: Well, he said that he wasn't aware of any serious cryptanalysis, specifically on this list. In all honesty, that's a fully truthful statement. Tim May has conveniently confirmed that there *has* been some real cryptanalysis on it, confirming that it's not a good algorithm, but it's not snake-oil. (If it get's submitted for peer review, can you really call it that?) I'm going to wager that all Hal was saying is that he had seen no evidence to that effect, and that you had presentted none. > > >>Misty is described in the proceedings of the most recent annual > >>conference on fast encryption algorithms. It is designed to be provably > >>resistant to linear and differential cryptanalysis. As a new set of > >>algorithms (a few variants exist under the "Misty" label), it is one of > >>many where a "wait and see" attitude is appropriate to see how it holds > >>up. As a patented algorithm, it may have trouble competing with > >>alternatives that are free of restrictions. > >> > >>However your charge that it is "snake-oil" seems unfounded. It appears > >>to be a respectable academic development effort, within the mainstream > >>of cryptographic research, and has some reasonable-looking theory behind > >>it. As far as I know there has been no cryptanalysis or technical > >>commentary of any sort regarding Misty on the cypherpunks mailing list. From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 22 13:07:14 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:07:14 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: At 8:21 AM -0800 1/22/98, bill.stewart at pobox.com wrote: >What I'd really like to see in a browser is an option to >turn off animated GIFs (other than by killing all images.) > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely deployed. (If they're available, I haven't about them.) Something to remove the annoying banners, or stop them from wasting valuable time loading in the first place. These would be comparable to "television commercial killers," which have not really been feasible, as the pattern recognition methods (like increased volume for commercials) are not reliable. But with banner ads, this should be possible. Whether through a plug-in, or through a "patched" version of Navigator or Explorere. (In fact, why don't these vendors offer a switch to turn off downloading of ads? I think I know the marketing reason, but this still suggests a market opportunity for someone to jump in with a patched version, or a "advertising-free" browser.) BTW, some of the notorious features of the new "anti-hacking" laws make disassembly of programs, like browsers, illegal. While they won't bother with folks who just fool around with disassembling code, they might use these anti-hacking laws to throw the book at anyone who made such a banner-eater available. After all, directly infringing on the rights of advertisers to beam their shit into our eyeballs is America's most serious crime. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From lists at castle5.castlec.com Thu Jan 22 13:18:48 1998 From: lists at castle5.castlec.com (Jrbl Pookah) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:18:48 +0800 Subject: Communicator 5.0 to be GPL'ed Message-ID: Here's something I came across on one of my other lists. I looked at the URL, and it looked good. Anybody able to confirm/deny? And what kind of implications do y'all think this'll have for Netscape's security? (What if improved security code comes to Netscape from bodies /outside/ the US?) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: Communicator 5.0 to be GPL'ed Yes its true !! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980122/ca_netscap_3.html woo hoo!! Dex- ----End Forwarded Message--- -- Joseph Blaylock Castle Computers, Inc. JOAT,MODF blaylock at castlec.com (513)469-0888 YMMV -- "Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement." ---Shunryu Suzuki From sunder at sundernet.com Thu Jan 22 13:40:48 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:40:48 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > BTW, some of the notorious features of the new "anti-hacking" laws make > disassembly of programs, like browsers, illegal. While they won't bother > with folks who just fool around with disassembling code, they might use > these anti-hacking laws to throw the book at anyone who made such a > banner-eater available. Fuck that, Netscape is soon to be GPL'd. > After all, directly infringing on the rights of advertisers to beam their > shit into our eyeballs is America's most serious crime. Probably considered more serious than murder by them. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From stutz at dsl.org Thu Jan 22 13:56:22 1998 From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:56:22 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely deployed. > Whether through a plug-in, or through a "patched" version of Navigator or > Explorere. I suspect that new versions of Navigator will have these features plus much more: From jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu Thu Jan 22 14:55:26 1998 From: jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu (John Blair) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:55:26 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801222241.QAA04237@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- tcmay at got.net said: > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely > deployed. (If they're available, I haven't about them.) Something to > remove the annoying banners, or stop them from wasting valuable time > loading in the first place. Netscape just announced that they're going to release the source code to Communicator 5.0 with a license that allows modification and redistribution "in the heritage of the GNU Public License." No details on the specific license yet, but it sounds *very* hopeful. The point is... we *will* be able to add all the funky new features we want. Complaining about the browser will no longer be acceptable now that we will be able to *do* something about it. It also means that Microsoft will get to compete head-to-head with a real free software model. This is an excellent opportunity to demonstrate what the free software model can do. I can already envision non-Netscape "distributions," custom browser modifications for big customers, etc. More info here: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980122/ca_netscap_3.html http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980122/business/stories/netscape_1.html http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980122.ehnetcode.htm -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair at uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMfLCwJjTpK3AXhBAQHDMQP+LaUVmDpm2Rv8EPVCkd1o389OrOKi/3EY MKmlHaeruFKhAf1tCcY78C8I6Ofm0jbZJ9s1sHOWprqjAbi4l+C53GlQoGNCuD6R x9Zm3fflfRbMF0slUqNUcAxVMPF8Qjh5YC2f6iOchIq0GgxnO8B53r5cUwri5Ne9 pYaq2/HpAow= =eG/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Markus.Kuhn at cl.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 15:09:23 1998 From: Markus.Kuhn at cl.cam.ac.uk (Markus Kuhn) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:09:23 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <199801230129.BAA02808@fountainhead.net> Message-ID: root wrote on 1998-01-23 01:29 UTC: > [Press Releases] > http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 > > NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE CODE > AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET Excellent! Finally mainstream software companies start to understand that security critical software has to be provided to the customer in full compilable source code to allow independent security evaluation. No formal CC/ITSEC evaluation process can beat the scrutiny of the Internet crowd. I wonder how long we have to wait for the day on which we can download the latest GPL'ed Windows NT version source code from Microsoft's web server ... Markus -- Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK email: mkuhn at acm.org, home page: From nobody at nsm.htp.org Thu Jan 22 15:12:08 1998 From: nobody at nsm.htp.org (nobody at nsm.htp.org) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:12:08 +0800 Subject: Other c'punk lists? In-Reply-To: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: <19980122225315.28507.qmail@nsm.htp.org> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:20:16 -0800 Bill Stewart wrote: \/ ---snip loads of good info--- 00 I heard there is also CYPHERLIST-WATCH-DIGEST-HELP at JOSHUA.RIVERTOWN.NET looks pretty good! From nobody at nsm.htp.org Thu Jan 22 15:13:59 1998 From: nobody at nsm.htp.org (nobody at nsm.htp.org) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:13:59 +0800 Subject: Other c'punk lists? In-Reply-To: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: <19980122225207.28429.qmail@nsm.htp.org> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:20:16 -0800 Bill Stewart wrote: \/ ---snip loads of good info--- 00 I heard there is also CYPHERLIST-WATCH-DIGEST-HELP at JOSHUA.RIVERTOWN.NET looks pretty good! From bradt at ehq.com Thu Jan 22 15:29:00 1998 From: bradt at ehq.com (Brad Threatt) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:29:00 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: <34C7D3EF.632F@ehq.com> Tim May wrote: > > At 8:21 AM -0800 1/22/98, bill.stewart at pobox.com wrote: > > >What I'd really like to see in a browser is an option to > >turn off animated GIFs (other than by killing all images.) > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely > deployed. (If they're available, I haven't about them.) > Something to remove the annoying banners, or stop them from > wasting valuable time loading in the first place. There are several examples people have mentioned here: Roxen, junkbuster, etc. I happen to use one called WebFilter, a patched CERN httpd (http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/NoShit) which allows program filtering based on URL regexp matching. Of course, now that Netscape's releasing their source code, what would *really* help the practice take off would be integration of one of these systems into Netscape. On the downside, this is sure to trigger an ad Arms Race, with content providers melding together content and ads. Right now, I can view the web with almost no ads, but if a million people are filtering ads off a site, you can bet there will be countermeasures, and lots of them. It's difficult to imagine the filters winning, without more advanced support (for example, cropping images to remove ads, and collaborative filtering pools). But if a million people are using the system, and 0.01% are coders committed to making it work, well, you can do a lot with 100 brains. > BTW, some of the notorious features of the new "anti-hacking" laws > make disassembly of programs, like browsers, illegal. While they > won't bother with folks who just fool around with disassembling > code, they might use these anti-hacking laws to throw the book at > anyone who made such a banner-eater available. Proxies can do the same thing, and just as well, IMO, and it doesn't require any ugly binary patching. -MT From bubbabill at whitehouse.gov Thu Jan 22 15:29:17 1998 From: bubbabill at whitehouse.gov (bubbabill at whitehouse.gov) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:29:17 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801222322.RAA24666@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Hear that the State of the Union next Monday has a section on Internet - networks - critical infrastructure protection et al. Anyone have any details? From anon at squirrel.owl.de Thu Jan 22 15:43:40 1998 From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:43:40 +0800 Subject: Cybersitter censors code Message-ID: <19a5852c151be5545b7c5afb0cdbbcbb@squirrel> >>Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage >>called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet >>content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and >>watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense >>word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if >>there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" >>without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and >>stupid. Find out who it is and fire his ass for sabotage of the company computer systems. From anon at anon.efga.org Thu Jan 22 15:48:49 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:48:49 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer Message-ID: <1c103cd4daa62b5cabf50f16f87903e1@anon.efga.org> Go back to the sushi bar and read your English book. Chop chop. >Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world >maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided >to be developed. >Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. >It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years >with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. 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Geiger III) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:13:28 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801230126.UAA05518@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/22/98 at 11:04 PM, Markus Kuhn said: >I wonder how long we have to wait for the day on which >we can download the latest GPL'ed Windows NT version source code from >Microsoft's web server ... What for, the best it would be good for is as an exercise on how not to write code. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I don't do Windows, but OS/2 does. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMff149Co1n+aLhhAQETvQQAifWL4p9iEvYGzI8uHPaRhrh9/KU7A800 M/MlYnJxDzfqm8H88Hf1fso8Tybi1r2jJFdfWPXgsjuAYVNsw8JLeYRodhSvpRnq LE5IIKAiMbn7u9caubdOF4cAZkbonZ6IsJnfouQiWfpX0R2AuhhBvn5mxnnY/wlu lazyBsd2qeI= =hQ9R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 22 18:29:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:29:48 +0800 Subject: toc.htm Message-ID: <199801230215.UAA11347@einstein.ssz.com> FEDERAL GUIDELINES FOR SEARCHING AND SEIZING COMPUTERS TABLE OF CONTENTS PREFACE INTRODUCTION I. KEY TERMS AND CONCEPTS A. DEFINITIONS B. LIST OF COMPUTER SYSTEM COMPONENTS C. DETERMINING THE COMPUTER'S ROLE IN THE OFFENSE II. GENERAL PRINCIPLES A. SEARCH WARRANTS B. PLAIN VIEW C. EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES D. BORDER SEARCHES E. CONSENT SEARCHES 1. Scope of the Consent 2. Third-Party Consent a. General Rules b. Spouses c. Parents d. Employers e. Networks: System Administrators F. INFORMANTS AND UNDERCOVER AGENTS III. SEIZING HARDWARE A. THE INDEPENDENT COMPONENT DOCTRINE B. HARDWARE AS CONTRABAND OR FRUITS OF CRIME 1. Authority for Seizing Contraband or Fruits of Crime 2. Contraband and Fruits of Crime Defined C. HARDWARE AS AN INSTRUMENTALITY OF THE OFFENSE 1. Authority for Seizing Instrumentalities 2. Instrumentalities Defined D. HARDWARE AS EVIDENCE OF AN OFFENSE 1. Authority for Seizing Evidence 2. Evidence Defined E. TRANSPORTING HARDWARE FROM THE SCENE IV. SEARCHING FOR AND SEIZING INFORMATION A. INTRODUCTION B. INFORMATION AS CONTRABAND C. INFORMATION AS AN INSTRUMENTALITY D. INFORMATION AS EVIDENCE 1. Evidence of Identity 2. Specific Types of Evidence a. Hard Copy Printouts b. Handwritten Notes E. PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION 1. In General a. Doctors, Lawyers, and Clergy b. Publishers and Authors 2. Targets 3. Using Special Masters F. UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE EVIDENCE MIGHT BE: STAND-ALONE PCs, NETWORKS AND FILE-SERVERS, BACKUPS, ELECTRONIC BULLETIN BOARDS, AND ELECTRONIC MAIL 1. Stand-Alone PCs a. Input/Output Devices: Do Monitors, Modems, Printers, and Keyboards Ever Need to be Searched? b. Routine Data Backups 2. Networked PCs a. Routine Backups b. Disaster Backups G. SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION 1. Business Records and Other Documents 2. Data Created or Maintained by Targets 3. Limited Data Searches 4. Discovering the Unexpected a. Items Different from the Description in the Warrant b. Encryption H. DECIDING WHETHER TO CONDUCT THE SEARCH ON-SITE OR TO REMOVE HARDWARE TO ANOTHER LOCATION 1. Seizing Computers because of the Volume of Evidence a. Broad Warrant Authorizes Voluminous Seizure of Documents b. Warrant is Narrowly Drawn but Number of Document to be Sifted through is Enormous c. Warrant Executed in the Home d. Applying Existing Rules to Computers 2. Seizing Computers because of Technical Concerns a. Conducting a Controlled Search to Avoid Destroying Data b. Seizing Hardware and Documentation so the System Will Operate at the Lab I. EXPERT ASSISTANCE 1. Introduction 2. Finding Experts a. Federal Sources b. Private Experts (1) Professional Computer Organizations (2) Universities (3) Computer and Telecommunications Industry Personnel (4) The Victim 3. What the Experts Can Do a. Search Planning and Execution b. Electronic Analysis c. Trial Preparation d. Training for Field Agents V. NETWORKS AND BULLETIN BOARDS A. INTRODUCTION B. THE PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT, 42 U.S.C. � 2000aa 1. A Brief History of the Privacy Protection Act 2. Work Product Materials 3. Documentary Materials 4. Computer Searches and the Privacy Protection Act a. The Reasonable Belief Standard b. Similar Form of Public Communication c. Unique Problems: Unknown Targets and Commingled Materials 5. Approval of Deputy Assistant Attorney General Required C. STORED ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS VI. DRAFTING THE WARRANT A. DRAFTING A WARRANT TO SEIZE HARDWARE B. DRAFTING A WARRANT TO SEIZE INFORMATION 1. Describing the Place to be Searched a. General Rule: Obtain a Second Warrant b. Handling Multiple Sites within the Same District c. Handling Multiple Sites in Different Districts d. Information at an Unknown Site e. Information/Devices Which Have Been Moved 2. Describing the Items to be Seized 3. Removing Hardware to Search Off-Site: Ask th Magistrate for Explicit Permission. 4. Seeking Authority for a No-Knock Warrant a. In General b. In Computer-Related Cases VII. POST-SEARCH PROCEDURES A. INTRODUCTION B. PROCEDURES FOR PRESERVING EVIDENCE 1. Chain of Custody 2. Organization 3. Keeping Records 4. Returning Seized Computers and Materials a. Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure: Rule 41(e) b. Hardware c. Documentation d. Notes and Papers e. Third-Party Owners VIII. EVIDENCE A. INTRODUCTION B. THE BEST EVIDENCE RULE C. AUTHENTICATING ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS 1. "Distinctive" Evidence 2. Chain of Custody 3. Electronic Processing of Evidence D. THE HEARSAY RULE IX. APPENDICES APPENDIX A: SAMPLE COMPUTER LANGUAGE FOR SEARCH WARRANTS 1. Tangible Objects a. Justify Seizing the Objects b. List and Describe the Objects (1) Hardware (2) Software (3) Documentation (4) Passwords and Data Security Devices 2. Information: Records, Documents, Data a. Describe the Content of Records, Documents, or other Information b. Describe the Form which the Relevant Information May Take c. Electronic Mail: Searching and Seizing Data from a BBS Server under 18 U.S.C. � 2703 (1) If All the E-Mail is Evidence of Crime (2) If Some of the E-Mail is Evidence of Crime (3) If None of the E-Mail is Evidence of Crime d. Ask Permission to Seize Storage Devices when Off-Site Search is Necessary e. Ask Permission to Seize, Use, and Return Auxiliary Items, as Necessary f. Data Analysis Techniques 3. Stipulation for Returning Original Electronic Data APPENDIX B: GLOSSARY APPENDIX C: FEDERAL EXPERTS FOR COMPUTER CRIME INVESTIGATIONS APPENDIX D: COMPUTER SEARCH AND SEIZURE WORKING GROUP APPENDIX E: STATUTORY POPULAR NAME TABLE APPENDIX F: TABLE OF AUTHORITIES Cases Statutes Federal Rules Federal Regulations Legislative History Reference Materials Go to . . . CCIPS Home || Justice Home Page _________________________________________________________________ Updated page May 9 , 1997 usdoj-jmd/irm/css/mlb _________________________________________________________________ From schear at lvdi.net Thu Jan 22 18:32:42 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:32:42 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:26 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >Which leaves unruly Cypherpunks still running free. > >(Which is why I would look for signs that Congress will seek to make ISPs >responsible for political speech, a la the Chinese actions. Not this year, >not next, but someday. Except it won't be explicitly a law about political >speech, it'll be something about dangerous information, safety of the >children, etc.) But if rapes or kill just one child... --Steve From ryan at michonline.com Thu Jan 22 18:36:32 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:36:32 +0800 Subject: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801221953.NAA09086@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of > the government? In theory, executive. (That way legislative writes laws, executive decides if they want to enforce them, judicial decides if they're legal or not.. ) In theory, of course.. Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:29:55 -0500 (EST) > From: Ryan Anderson > Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of > > the government? > > In theory, executive. (That way legislative writes laws, executive > decides if they want to enforce them, judicial decides if they're legal or > not.. ) In theory, of course.. First, I knew the answer, I was looking for a lead-in...thanks. Then how, Constitutionaly speaking, do they have get the responsbility to search when it is clearly a judicial responsibility (that is where it is in the Constitution) and in cases such as Evans -v- Gore the Supreme Court has found that the judicial body can't transfer or relinquish it's responsibilities even if it *wants* to? I suspect that, again Constitutionaly speaking, the only system that would pass strict muster would be something similar to the Dutch which prohibit the police from executing a search until *after* review by a legislative representative. This is a rhetorical question, I don't expect you or anyone else to respond to it. Just think about it... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From redgod at usa.net Thu Jan 22 19:00:28 1998 From: redgod at usa.net (redgod at usa.net) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:00:28 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980123104820.007ab4c0@iuol.cn.net> FUCK! WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? I WILL MAD! OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! At 08:18 AM 1/12/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote: >On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: >[quoting Tim] >> >> > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to >> > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I >> > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for >> > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that >> > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or >> > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these >> > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work >> > adequately.) >> >> There are currently-under-development systems which will meet the digital cash >> requirement, >> from people who I consider highly respectable and competent. > >And the demand for such ecash systems is real. I personally carried a $10 >million offer for a non-exclusive license for the blind signature patent >to David Chaum. He declined the offer. "The patent is not for license". >DigiCash's CEO since March of last year, Mike Nash, also told me that >DigiCash was not considering licensing the patent. I knew that day that it >was time to quit. Not surprisingly, nobody heard from DigiCash since. > >-- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. > "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" > > From redgod at usa.net Thu Jan 22 19:02:05 1998 From: redgod at usa.net (redgod at usa.net) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:02:05 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Service denial attacks on Eternity Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980123104841.007a8bf0@iuol.cn.net> FUCK! WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? I WILL MAD! OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! At 04:51 PM 1/12/98 +0000, Ross Anderson wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits >> of the service, or who want such services shut down. > >Exactly. When I first talked about Eternity, which was at either the >1994 or 1995 protocols workshop, I was walking back to my seat when >Bob Morris (then at the NSA) said, from behind his hand in a stage >whisper, `Kiddyporn!' > >Adam Back added: > >> the spooks / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if >> none is available to seize > >Indeed, and a decade or so ago there was a scandal when it turned out >that the spooks were using the Kincora Boys' Home in Belfast as a pedo >brothel in order to entrap various local politicians. For them to say >now that they need key escrow to suppress Kiddyporn is a bit rich! > >However the main threat is the court order - Anton Pillar or whatever >- and the best weapon against court orders is anonymity. If they don't >know your address they can't serve you the order or arrest you for >contempt. > >Tom Womack: > >> I can imagine *use* of the service becoming a felony > >I mentioned in the paper that Mossad might deny Eternity service to >the Muslim world by posting something rude about the Prophet Mohammed. > >One must of course create a lawful excuse for people to have Eternity >software mounted on their system. Maybe in addition to the `public' >Eternity service we should have many corporate or even private >services, many of which have escrow capabilities and are thus clearly >law-abiding and accountable :-) > >There are many other possibilities. One topic that oozes into my >consciousness from time to time is that one might integrate covert >communications and storage with an anti-spam mail program - maybe a >natural way forward if Adam hides Eternity traffic in spam! > >Tim again: > >> Great idea, but where are the customers? > >Some 90% of security research effort is on confidentiality, 9% on >authenticity and 1% on availability. Corporate infosec expenditures >are exactly the other way round, and tools to enable disaster recovery >databases to be spread holographically over a company's PCs could save >a fortune compared with the cost of some current arrangements. If a >few of these backup resources have hidden directories that mount the >public Eternity service, then who can tell? > >At the Info Hiding Workshop at Portland in April, I will present a new >idea which may facilitate such implementations of Eternity. This is >the Steganographic File System - designed to provide you with any file >whose name and password you know. If you don't know this combination, >then you can't even tell that the file is there. We do not need to >make any assumptions about tamper resistance; it can be done using >suitable mathematics. (This is joint work with Roger Needham and Adi >Shamir.) > >Ross > >PS: we need a better word for `eternityspace', and Bell Labs have >already trademarked `Inferno'. So what - Nirvana? Valhalla? > From redgod at usa.net Thu Jan 22 19:05:26 1998 From: redgod at usa.net (redgod at usa.net) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:05:26 +0800 Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980123104908.007a8ab0@iuol.cn.net> FUCK! WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? I WILL MAD! OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! At 03:51 PM 1/13/98 -0800, William Knowles wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > >> At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >> >> >Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country >> >willing on hosting data havens. >> >> Oh yeah? >> >> It's been a while since we talked about this (at least on the Cypherpunks >> list), but a couple of years ago there was much discusson on the CP list >> about just what items would be allowable in Anguilla. Vince Cate gave his >> assessment, which I found fairly nebulous, in that it appeared the Ruling >> Families would allow what they would allow, and not allow what they would >> not allow---there seemed to be a lot of ad hoc rulings. > >If memory serves me right it was because Vince bounced off the Taxbomber >site because it offered second passports, camouflage passports, and other >products that was considered a fraud, Which to me sounds odd since there >is some other company selling most everthing and then some from an .ai >domain which Vince's company has the monopoly on handing out .ai domains > >http://www.ultramec.com.ai > >> (Given that copies of "Penthouse" are illegal in Anguilla, if I recall this >> correctly, and given that gun are illegal, and drugs are illegal, I rather >> doubt that Anguilla would happily host "The Aryan Nations Bomb Site," or >> "Pedophile Heaven," or "Gun Smuggler's Digest. " Or the even juicier stuff >> any "data haven" with any claim to really being a data haven will surely >> have.) > >You also have to wonder how far in the future it will be before the >special forces of some banana republic drops in on Vince to blow-up >his operation for as he advertises publishing censored information >on ones ex-president on the Internet, or for that matter I have >yet to see abortion information coming from his servers. > >What has happened in Anguilla proves that there will be a need for >different flavors of datahavens, Different degrees libility that >datahaven owners will want to store information on their servers. >I would love to open a XXX WWW site in Anguilla pulling in the >industry average of $5-10K a month and not pay any taxes there, >But it won't happen in Anguilla with the present adminstration! > >> >And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking >> >for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling >> >rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just >> >give you one just to be rid of future liability. >> >> Given the willingness of the French to have SDECE sink Greenpeace ships in >> neutral ports, how long before a couple of kilos of Semtex are applied to >> the underside of these oil rigs? >> >> Given what happened with "pirate broadcast tankers," the future is not bright. > >Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run >from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? > >> When the first "oil rig data haven" is found to have kiddie porn, >> bomb-making info, and (shudder) material doubting the historicity of the >> Holocaust, the U.N. will cluck and the public will cheer when it is boarded >> and seized, or simply sunk. >> >> As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in >> meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. >> >> --Tim May > >I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted >datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or >hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that >information. > > >William Knowles >erehwon at dis.org > >== >The information standard is more draconian than the gold >standard, because the government has lost control of the >marketplace. -- Walter Wriston >== >http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ > > From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 22 19:14:02 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:14:02 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980123104820.007ab4c0@iuol.cn.net> Message-ID: At 6:49 PM -0800 1/22/98, redgod at usa.net wrote: >FUCK! >WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? >CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? >I WILL MAD! >OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! Ah, yet another articulate subscriber of one of these lists. (This dweeb doesn't even say whether he's getting Cypherpunks or Eternity list traffic, as both are on the cc: list.) You are hereby condemned to receive all the rants of Nobuki-san, Detweiler tentacles, and Dim Vulis artwork. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From unicorn at schloss.li Thu Jan 22 19:29:56 1998 From: unicorn at schloss.li (Black Unicorn) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:29:56 +0800 Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980122212421.006de5b0@schloss.li> At 04:29 AM 1/21/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: > How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet > Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others > - or - > Where do your encryption keys want to go today? > > Peter Gutmann, Has anyone done a real world implementation of this exploit? Mr. Gutmann's mscrack.c seems to compile fine, but fails self tests on internal rc2 or sha-1. Just me? Anyone? From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 22 19:44:19 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:44:19 +0800 Subject: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801230335.EAA13849@basement.replay.com> >So you have to be an employee of the government to be a citizen? Yes. Welcome to America, Land of the Freeh. From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jan 22 19:47:59 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:47:59 +0800 Subject: Supplement to DoJ Seizure Guide Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980123034549.006f3954@pop.pipeline.com> There's a long October 1997 supplement to the 1994 DoJ Guide to Search and Seizure of Computers for which Jim Choate posted the TOC just now. It reflects recent campaigns, raids and counterattacks as the battle for supremacy between law and technology intensifies and both sides search and seize each's best and worst: http://jya.com/doj-ssgsup.htm (100K) From schear at lvdi.net Thu Jan 22 19:51:27 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:51:27 +0800 Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:31 PM -0500 1/22/98, Ryan Anderson wrote: >> Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. > >But any modern modem has v.42bis, and with v.42bis it automatically shuts >off the compression anyway! (Maybe that was just v.42, I forget, but it >doesn't have the problems that MNP5 has with compressed files) > >Either way, this feature already exists.... Thanks for straightening this out. I was thinking of MNP5 and couldn't find my modem's referemce manual to consider v.42/bis. --Steve From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au Thu Jan 22 20:11:14 1998 From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:11:14 +0800 Subject: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Anyone? > -----Original Message----- > From: Pearson Shane > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:25 PM > To: 'cypherpunks at toad.com' > Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > > > Hey all, > > Just wondering what people think of this product? > Good, bad or ugly? > > Is there an international version and a US version? > > If so, what limitations are in the international version? > > Many thanks... From whiteliberty at nym.alias.net Thu Jan 22 20:12:22 1998 From: whiteliberty at nym.alias.net (White Liberty) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:12:22 +0800 Subject: Censorship free ISP Message-ID: <19980123035437.590.qmail@nym.alias.net> Sorry for the cross-posting, but some of the readers may hopefully address this: Could you recommend me a censorship FREE InterNet Service Provider that in addition to a "no censorship" policy also guarantees your privacy. I am an ex-patriate Danish who live in the United States, but has a friend who wants to publish material deemed hateful in my birth country. In Denmark, they still struggle with laws abridging freedom of expression in regard to "hate speech." Could you recommend any ISP to me in the United States that satisfies this? I know Cyberpass in California does not censor based on content. But I am sure there are many many others. Please respond in personal mail or to cypherpunks at cyberpass.net. From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Jan 22 20:27:41 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:27:41 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Service denial attacks on Eternity In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980123104841.007a8bf0@iuol.cn.net> Message-ID: <199801230435.XAA07128@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.32.19980123104841.007a8bf0 at iuol.cn.net>, on 01/23/98 at 10:50 AM, redgod at usa.net said: >FUCK! >WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? >CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? >I WILL MAD! >OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! Welcome to CyberHell(TM) there is no escape, you are doomed here for all eternity. Kick back, crack open a cold one and enjoy the ride, you ain't going nowhere. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If you want it done right, forget Microsoft. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMgMKI9Co1n+aLhhAQFRpQP9FEu4wSZ4GT/oDKYS2RkkDT26+RDcWwqz acFwbPjJ9kuOvBswhWuF0zUYdA0BwVDtYXaxTYGIyW//1DWFwL47cC0NtibSGHFU E61R5RzthL06ug8J3h02q2CsoYGAgP4YMF2QnzqBLsQDdlaGUzUt7+Kvplc59MW9 p0q3rdYZdMI= =MM8h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 22 20:31:14 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:31:14 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com> >Hear that the State of the Union next Monday has a section on Internet - >networks - critical infrastructure protection et al. Anyone have any >details? My bet is that it'll be the same as it always is. Klintonkov will rant about how he wants to censor the Internet. Then he'll go on and on about how he wants to connect every public school to the Internet and tax me to give these kids censored feeds, all when the students are coming out of the school system as complete morons. Some can't read, many can't do math, most have absolutely no clue about basic science, and most have absolutely no idea about the Bill of Rights and freedom of speech[1]. And of course he'll have to throw in a long diatribe about how Americans need to surrender more of their freedom to the government. Maybe he'll even mention how he doesn't remember screwing a reasonably attractive woman half his age in the White House while she was a White House intern. [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: 1) What is the acceleration of gravity at sealevel on Earth? 2) What are airlocks? What are they used for? How do they work? 3) How many chromosomes are in a normal, healthy human? 4) Joe is one of your classmates. He elects not to say the "Pledge of Allegience." Which of the following is true? a) He must say it because it is mandated by the government. b) He may not say it, but he must stand. c) He is not required to acknowledge it, except to allow others to say it if they wish to. d) He should be taken out behind the school and beaten with a sledgehammer. Afterwards his brains should be used to spell the words "Death to traitors!" e) He should be sent to the principal's office for disciplinary action. f) He should be expelled from the country. g) He must do so as long as he is a U.S. citizen. 5) Explain the equation 'f=m*a' and Newton's Third Law. 'f=m*a' is referenced in the context of Newtonian motion. 6) The First Amendment of the United States Constitution orders which of the following? a) Congress shall not restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly, or religion. b) Congress shall not restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly, or religion, except as ordered by the majority. c) Congress and private individuals may not descriminate on the basis of sex. d) Congress and private individuals may not restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly, or religion. 7) What are the following government agencies and what are their function? a) FCC b) NSA c) CIA d) FBI e) DEA f) BATF g) NTSB h) DOJ 8) Your city passes a "teen curfew" law ordering criminal penalties for anybody younger than 18 who is out after 10PM on school nights. The law was passed by popular vote at this year's elections. Which of the following is true? a) This is a just and fair law, and is completely constitutional. Teenagers have no reason to be out past 10PM on school nights. They should be at home and asleep. b) This law violates the thirteenth amendment. c) This law violates the first amendment. It violates freedom of assembly. d) This is a constitutional law. Freedom of assembly does not apply because the people voted on this law and it passed by majority vote. 9) How many senators does each state have? 10) "What a piece of work is man; how noble in reason; how infinite in faculty, in form, in moving; how express and admirable in action..." Name the author. 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? 12) (sin(9)^2 + cos(9)^2)=x. If this quantity can be determined, what is x equal to? 13) What is the square root of 256? 14) What is the fourth root of 81? 15) Given complete control of the environment, how could one cause pure water to boil at 96 degrees C? 16) Explain possible problems with cloning of humans. Analysis: Keep in mind that I'm talking about high school graduates or people who have almost graduated high school here, and these are people who have taken the appropriate courses. Back in high school I made the mistake of making some comments and assuming in class discussions that people had basic knowledge. I was wrong. Okay, so I was naive. Eventually I gave up and stopped participating simply because I was sick and tired of doing the school's job for them. 1) Most students probably won't have any idea. The value, of course, is about 9.81 m/s^2. 10 m/s^2 doesn't work although that's given in the mathematics books they give these kids. Most of them probably won't even know what the question is asking. 2) I actually brought this topic up to a group of *honors* students. Think of the expression "shove you out an airlock" for context. They boggled, wallowed in their ignorance and were proud, and then went off to their think tank. After confering with each other they came back with the breathtakingly brilliant answer that it was a contraceptive device. Of course even after explaining to them what it was they still didn't get the reference, had no grasp of how such a thing might work, and had no idea what it might be useful for. 3) This is taught in elementary biology which, at least down here, is a required course. They had no idea. Actually, most of them had no clue about basic genetics at all. Yes, basic genetics was covered in the course, and this material was included. 4) I was "Joe" in this case. The people involved had already taken a semester government course. Their answer to the question would have been along the lines of option 'd'. 5) I made a big mistake assuming they knew this one. Oops. 6) Most seemed to believe 'b' or 'd'. Maybe they knew it was 'a' and thought that maybe people wouldn't notice. 7) I made the mistake of using designations like this in a political science class during a class discussion. I regretted it when I had to start explaining these agencies and what they were supposed to be responsible for. 8) No explanation required. 9) "You expect me to memorize that for all 50 states?" "Nevermind." 10) Shakespeare. It wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't had to read Hamlet, MacBeth, and others in their English classes. Yipes. 11) "How am I supposed to know?" "Uh, you got out of chemistry with a B." "Yes, but they never gave me problems like that!" Uhhh... 12) Most probably couldn't solve it without a calculator. 13) Ditto. 14) Ditto. 15) They'll probably look at you like you're nuts and explain that you can't. Uh, right. 16) In an international relations class I took students picked a side and tried to argue it. Mine was pro-cloning or, more accurately, pro-science. Most were anti-cloning. Why? a) "God doesn't like us to do things like that." Right. Let's go outlaw fields of research based on one religion and what followers of one religion think their god is thinking at that moment. This is America, not Iraq. b) "How would you like it if somebody just came up and cloned you without you knowing and then made that person tell them information you refused to give them yourself?" Okay, I can buy the unwillful cloning part of it and could support a law on the grounds that it's theft of genetic material or for a variety of other reasons. As for the rest of that...ugh. Now maybe people on this list can't answer some of these either. That isn't the point. The point is that you should have been taught this stuff in school. Klintonkov wants to go blow millions (billions?) of dollars for censored network feeds in the schools and they haven't even got basic education down? And don't say "computer literacy" either. Most high school graduates can barely type on the bloody things, and they can forget about actually fixing a problem themselves. The *teachers* are blatently clueless. When Klintonkov fixes these problems he can talk about "wiring our schools for the 21st century." Of course then he'll want to censor the feeds or the net at large, at which point we're back to square one and should spend the money on something useful, like paying off the multi-trillion dollar debt the idiots ran up. Here's the scariest part of it all: These people are voting! And we wonder why we're in such a mess. The war isn't the war between the blacks and the whites, the liberals and the conservatives, or the Federation and the Romulans. It's between the clueful and the clueless. From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Jan 22 20:31:17 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:31:17 +0800 Subject: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. In-Reply-To: <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Message-ID: <199801230430.XAA07081@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0 at hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au>, on 01/23/98 at 02:56 PM, Pearson Shane said: >Anyone? >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pearson Shane >> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:25 PM >> To: 'cypherpunks at toad.com' >> Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. >> >> >> Hey all, >> >> Just wondering what people think of this product? >> Good, bad or ugly? >> >> Is there an international version and a US version? >> >> If so, what limitations are in the international version? >> >> Many thanks... Is source code available for peer review? NO Is it US Commercial software? YES I wouldn't use it to secure an outhouse. No source no trust. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMgK6Y9Co1n+aLhhAQF08wP/abLg8ftPY7nuJ1hp8OKi6Ik2lx7A70/3 0GU++TZAmLWJ4XKlgCiujm0Z06P3rSEf+qtiIOTfFKUaN4kvt9JlmkH6h8fmuAJf t48Cq5XQbeYDMJ6HjvGpPraZJd5zmqv54UQuUjswZBONNIMqt+ypy6id/hpe0BY9 mOg9VyMW1cM= =aNiz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 20:39:51 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:39:51 +0800 Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122173404.0083e100@popd.ix.netcom.com> >>These attempts at regulation show just how terrified they are of true free >>speech and every man a publisher. > >Yes, they need "choke points" to control the anarchy. > >As with the British plan to license a series of "certificate authorities," >or U.S. plans/wishes to do the same thing, this effectively forces all >citizen-units to sign up with one of the authorized certificate issuers. >(This is why certificate-based systems are so heinous.) It's not just the government - the mass media have been scared of the Net for a long time because it disintermediates them. The recent flap about the Drudge Report and the lack of fact-checking and quality is a good example of that - the spin has been very negative about the dangers of uncontrolled, uncensored, unthrottled speech. An alternative spin could be to emphasize signal-to-noise and the far better quality of information that traditional media can provide. While I've got some disagreements about James Donald's explanations of Crypto Kong's model (no need for CAs, etc. vs. the simple approaches for replicating the Web Of Trust and CAs using his tools), once nice thing about it is that you don't use anything called a "certificate" - it just compares whether a message is signed by the same key that a previous message was. That previous message can be a vanilla message, or an introductory note from someone (Alice saying that Bob's key is 457HLJCR8YFDG7807FG7FD87G, and that this is the Bob she met at the Peace Center fundraiser), or a note from Catbert the HR Director saying Bob works at MegaFooBar, or a note from BankFoo that the checks from account 23123124 need to be signed by key 93243248329048. While they work like key signatures, they don't look like CA signatures, they look like ordinary correspondence. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 20:43:21 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:43:21 +0800 Subject: CP Bust or Buyout? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980121172436.01503010@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122175410.0083dbf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 12:24 PM 1/21/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Not much from the West Coast since the C2-CP meet on >Saturday. Were they all busted, or fragged, or has the >underground mole hole at last been taken? > >What, C2 shanghai-ed them all, with irrefusable bucks >galore to securely distribute porn, NDA$ accomplishing >what TLAs couldn't. Well, we got there and there was a note on the door saying we had to "sign in credibly" and not freak the guards, so some people signed in credibly and some signed incredibly. Sameer did take down the Police Line Do Not Cross tape and let us get at the sodas; perhaps that bribed some people :-) We had a reasonably good crowd, and a bunch of out-of-towners got to talk about what they were doing and work in progress. Peter Trei did a nice rehash of his talk on the state of key cracking, somewhat more technical than the layperson version he'd done at the RSA show. It keeps getting easier; 40 bits is laughable, 56 is work, but very crackable, even for RC5, and 64 bits will take years at the current rate - he and some others would rather see the next big distributed cracks going for RSA 512-bit keys. Hardware has been advancing a good bit as well as distributed efforts. The social dynamics of distributed cracking are much different than expected - the feeling of community that teams have appears to be more of a motivator than the prize for most people, so coordinated efforts have been the big contributors. The talk on export control was put off until another meeting, though Greg Broiles gave a nice short summary of what's going on. He'd appreciate input on other people's experience getting products through the export bureaucrats. Hugh talked about the state of FreeS/WAN Linux IPSEC, and also about Secure DNS, which he and John Gilmore recently went through the paperwork of exporting, crypto source and all. Lucky Green talked about the Smartcard activities - he and his unindicted co-conspirators discovered that they're the only group making public smartcard support tools that aren't controlled by a smartcard vendor. Check them out on cypherpunks.to. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au Thu Jan 22 20:58:32 1998 From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:58:32 +0800 Subject: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: <01ISPZTCTU9U00AS02@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Hi William, Many thanks for the reply. I was hoping it was ok having Blowfish, but I guess it could be their own "efficient" version. Bye for now. > -----Original Message----- > From: William H. Geiger III [SMTP:whgiii at invweb.net] > Sent: Friday, January 23, 1998 2:12 PM > To: Pearson Shane > Cc: 'cypherpunks at toad.com' > Subject: Re: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > In <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0 at hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au>, on 01/23/98 > at 02:56 PM, Pearson Shane said: > > >Anyone? > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Pearson Shane > >> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:25 PM > >> To: 'cypherpunks at toad.com' > >> Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > >> > >> > >> Hey all, > >> > >> Just wondering what people think of this product? > >> Good, bad or ugly? > >> > >> Is there an international version and a US version? > >> > >> If so, what limitations are in the international version? > >> > >> Many thanks... > > > Is source code available for peer review? NO > > Is it US Commercial software? YES > > I wouldn't use it to secure an outhouse. No source no trust. > > - -- > - --------------------------------------------------------------- > William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii > Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 > > Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice > PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. > OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html > > - --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 > Charset: cp850 > Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 > > iQCVAwUBNMgK6Y9Co1n+aLhhAQF08wP/abLg8ftPY7nuJ1hp8OKi6Ik2lx7A70/3 > 0GU++TZAmLWJ4XKlgCiujm0Z06P3rSEf+qtiIOTfFKUaN4kvt9JlmkH6h8fmuAJf > t48Cq5XQbeYDMJ6HjvGpPraZJd5zmqv54UQuUjswZBONNIMqt+ypy6id/hpe0BY9 > mOg9VyMW1cM= > =aNiz > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Jan 22 21:12:31 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:12:31 +0800 Subject: 10th FIRST Message-ID: <199801230522.AAA07920@users.invweb.net> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following message is forwarded to you by "William H. Geiger III" (listed as the From user of this message). The original sender (see the header, below) was Vicente Garcia and has been set as the "Reply-To" field of this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Vicente Garcia >Newsgroups: comp.security.pgp.resources >Subject: 10th FIRST >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:38:39 -0600 >Organization: ITESM Campus Monterrey . DINF-DTCI >Lines: 371 >Message-ID: <34C5438D.F8F99029 at campus.mty.itesm.mx> >NNTP-Posting-Host: vangelis.mty.itesm.mx >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Trace: news.mty.itesm.mx 885343029 6704 (None) 131.178.17.111 >X-Complaints-To: news at news.mty.itesm.mx >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >Path: edison.dotstar.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!opus.ies-energy.com!news.cs.utwente.nl!cosy.sbg.ac.at!wuff.mayn.de!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.uh.edu!news.mty.itesm.mx!not-for-mail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ************************************************************* * * * Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams (FIRST) * * * * Tenth Annual Computer Security Incident Handling Workshop * * * * Monterrey, Mexico * * * * Monday 22-Jun-1998 to Friday 26-Jun-1998 (inclusive) * * * ************************************************************* C A L L F O R P A P E R S Submission Deadline: January 15, 1998 "The challenges of incident handling in a diverse world" The Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams (FIRST) was formed in November 1990 to address the problem of an ever increasing number of computer and network security related incidents, affecting thousands of systems around the world. The forum is made up of government, private and academic Computer Security Incident Response Teams from around the world. Its primary goal is to coordinate the efforts of its members in order to increase both their individual and collective effectiveness. The annual Incident Handling Workshop is part of FIRST's ongoing educational program, which is aimed at increasing the general awareness of security issues and improving expertise when handling computer security incidents. Specific security problems can affect many individuals and organizations around the world, possibly involving many different technological environments. Each of the parties involved must tailor its actions to the context in which the problem is experienced. Factors which must be taken into account include: * Cultural: The way in which a problem is tackled can be highly influenced by the historical development of the community in question. Examples are the ability for open communication about problems or values regarding privacy. * Professional: Today the Internet is open to the masses. The ease of communication, the advent of electronic commerce, and the availability of information, makes it a playground and a library for the masses. It is also a key business tool which professionals depend upon. * Political: Political decisions of individual countries concerning key areas of computer security, e.g. restrictions in the use and export of cryptological technology, may change the way that security problems must be approached. Legalities pertaining to diverse use of computer systems vary widely between countries. * Technological: Different technologies, covering a wide spectrum that includes mainframes, unix workstations, personal computers and network computers are connected to the same network simultaneously. Who should attend? __________________ All those responsible for any aspect of computer security management will benefit from attending this workshop. This includes both members and non-members of FIRST, law enforcement officials, computer security incident response teams, as well as consultants, contractors, vendors and individuals involved in the use, maintenance or planning of computer systems. Why attend? ___________ The character of the Internet is changing rapidly. Not only has the commercial community discovered new possibilities offered by "direct" marketing and advertisement. Governmental and non-academic organizations have also turned their attentions to the potential of the Internet. Incident Handling must adapt to the changing user base of the Internet. In addition to the opportunity for those involved in computer security to get together and discuss all aspects of the subject, the workshop will provide the opportunity to listen to experts in the fields of computer security incident response and vulnerability analysis. They will share their valuable expertise by speaking about their experience in dealing successfully with the coordination of incidents traversing international boundaries, highlighting particular problems where appropriate. There is no other workshop dedicated to this topic in the world. Important Dates: ________________ Abstract/Proposals Due: January 15, 1998 Authors Notified: February 10, 1998 Full Materials for Proceedings Due: April 1, 1998 Format of the workshop: _______________________ The first day is allocated for parallel tutorial style presentations. The remaining four days will consist of conference paper and workshop style presentations, as well as FIRST business sessions. One evening is allocated for participants to hold events devoted to subjects of particular interest ("birds of a feather" sessions). All events will be selected to further the objectives of FIRST and its members. They may involve topics such as computer security incident handling, team and incident response coordination, tools, international issues, or work in progress. A list of example topics can be found at the end of this announcement. Contributions should follow the following guidelines: Tutorials: Half or full day tutorial proposals will be considered. Papers: Written papers may be as long as desired, but presentations must be limited to 30 minutes. Workshop: These informal sessions should either follow a more "hands-on" approach or provide for a high degree of audience participation. They should be tailored to address specific issues and should be from 60 to 90 minutes in duration. Panel Sessions on a particular topic are acceptable. Submission information: _______________________ Submissions should include an abstract, proposed length and single page of notes describing the content and style of the presentation. Special audio/visual requirements (other than one microphone and one overhead projector) should be described. Panel session proposals should include a list of panelists who have agreed to participate. Submissions should be sent to the contact address given at the end of this document. The preferred submission mechanism is via electronic mail in ASCII, HTML or PostScript formats. Submissions via Facsimile transmission or the postal service will, however, be accepted. Submissions must be received by the January 15, 1998. Submissions received after this date may not be considered for inclusion in the program. Please use the appended form for your submissions. Authors will be notified by the February 10, 1998 of the status of their presentation (accepted/rejected). The final version of the material used for the presentation (overheads, papers, slides) must be delivered to the organizers by the April 1, 1998 for inclusion in the proceedings. Email: ______ Please use the email address first-pc98 at first.org for submissions or questions regarding the call for papers. WWW: ____ The Workshop WWW page is accessible from the FIRST webserver: http://www.first.org/workshops/1998/ Program Committee: __________________ Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT, Germany (Program Chair) Brian Dunphy, ASSIST, USA Eric A. Fisch, Trident Data Systems, USA Eric Halil, AUSCERT, Australia Stephen Hansen, Stanford University, USA Ahmet Koltuksuz, IZMIR Inst. of Technology, Turkey Sherman O. Loges, Boeing, USA Paul Mauvais, CIAC, USA Fran Nielsen, NIST, USA Steve Romig, Ohio State, USA Roger Safian, Northwestern University, USA Miguel J. Sanchez, SGI, USA Sandy Sparks, CIAC, USA Don Stikvoort, CERT-NL, Netherlands Wietse Venema, TU Eindhoven, Netherlands Mark Zajicek, CERT Coordination Center, USA Conference Location: ____________________ Monterrey, Mexico Dates: _____ Mon June 22, 1998 - tutorials (parallel streams) Tue June 23, 1998 to Fri June 26, 1998 (workshop). Conference Host: ________________ Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey (ITESM), Mexican CERT (MxCERT). The workshop is sponsored by First.Org Inc. Contact Information: ____________________ Electronic Mail: first-pc98 at first.org Postal Address: Attn: Wolfgang Ley DFN-CERT Univ. of Hamburg Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30 22527 Hamburg Germany Facsimile: +49 40 5494 2241 Subject: FIRST 1998 Workshop Example Topics (other topics may be considered): Dealing with the increasing diversity in all areas International Legal Issues Legal and Administrative Issues in Incident Handling Coordinating International Incidents Incident Handling and the Internet Security on Large Networks other than the Internet How to Protect an Incident Response Team Site Interviewing/Hiring Incident Response Team Staff Outsourcing an Incident Response Team Vulnerability/Advisory Processes New Tools for Incident Handling Statistic Tools Informational Resources Programming Securely Preventing Incidents Intrusion/Vulnerability Detection Tools System/Network Monitoring Tools The Changing Nature of the "hack" Internet Service Providers and Security Vendor Session Collecting Evidence =========================================================================== ABSTRACT / PROPOSAL SUBMISSION SHEET FIRST 1998 Name __________________________________________________________ Address __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Phone ____________________ Fax _______________________ E-mail ____________________ URL _______________________ Title of Presentation ____________________________________________ Presentation Type ( please tick one ) ( ) Paper ( ) Half-day Tutorial ( ) Workshop ( ) Full-day Tutorial ( ) Panel Presentation Length (in minutes) ______ Presentation Media Requirement (other than one overhead projector and a microphone): _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ Abstract ( 75-100 words ) _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ FIRST is granted an non exclusive right to copy and redistribute conference material including the submissions of the author(s). This includes possible distribution on a conference CD and/or the FIRST website. Brief Biography ( 50-75 words ) _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBNHit6QQmfXmOCknRAQFQQQP6Ao1CYieDoeHK1BFqypC6QjVKXeNLEjY+ jq2HgNBSvxuysHH1fNnqNxMRJSHWyFw+yEJJk3TFXL6tyIOIojbfnzH88crtdMah yzMYZL+APdTf3JppF8ipeIO8HygwMVt/BuRtW7JUCPvN5b7Vj1jDfc8pqOE786np eAExY1mgrSk= =LqxA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- MR/2 PGP Signature Check 22 Jan 1998 22:58:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key matching expected Key ID 8E0A49D1 not found in file 'pubring.pgp'. WARNING: Can't find the right public key-- can't check signature integrity. -------------------------------------------------------------------- MR/2 PGP Signature Check [Secondary Keyring] 22 Jan 1998 22:58:34 --------------------------------------------------------------------  WARNING: Bad signature, doesn't match file contents! Bad signature from user "Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT ". Signature made 1997/11/23 22:28 GMT using 1024-bit key, key ID 8E0A49D1  WARNING: Because this public key is not certified with a trusted signature, it is not known with high confidence that this public key actually belongs to: "Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT ". PGPRC=1 PGPRC2=1 ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: The sad thing about Windows bashing is it's all true. From estoy at hotmail.com Thu Jan 22 21:30:14 1998 From: estoy at hotmail.com (John M) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:30:14 +0800 Subject: How to eliminate liability? Message-ID: <19980123052334.20406.qmail@hotmail.com> This is just an idea I thought I would throw out and see what happens. There has been considerable discussion recently about datahavens, how no one physical location in meatspace is safe, and how there is no single place on earth that a datahaven could exist that would accept all kinds of information. Well, what about spreading the information out? Something simple like doing a matrix rotation on the scrambled data in 8 byte blocks and splice it by bit to split the data up, add ECC (error correction code) to it, and spread it to several servers. This way no one server has all the information necessary to recreate the "offending" information and if one server gets "hit" (killed), the information can still be regenerated from the the information and ECC from the other servers. The bit splitting I'm talking about would go something like this. The data would be set up in clusters of eight bytes and then these eight bytes would be rotated, error correction applied, divided byte by byte to separate queues (for separate destinations), resequenced to include the ECC overhead, and sent on it's merry way. Original encrypted information: Cluster A Cluster B... Byte 1: 01001011 Byte 2: 10101110 Byte 3: 10010110 Byte 4: 10110111 Byte 5: 01011100 Byte 6: 10111011 Byte 7: 10001101 Byte 8: 00110110 After the matrix rotate: Cluster A Cluster B... Byte 1: 01110110 Byte 2: 10001000 Byte 3: 01010101 Byte 4: 00111101 Byte 5: 11001110 Byte 6: 01111011 Byte 7: 11110101 Byte 8: 10010110 Add ECC: Cluster A Cluster B... Byte 1: 01110110 1 Byte 2: 10001000 0 Byte 3: 01010101 0 Byte 4: 00111101 1 Byte 5: 11001110 1 Byte 6: 01111011 0 Byte 7: 11110101 0 Byte 8: 10010110 0 ECC byte: 01000000 0 Divided up: Cluster A ECC-A Cluster B ECC-B Byte 1: 01110110 1 10100011 0 Resequenced into separate queues by byte in cluster: 01110110 11010001 10...... ...and distributed to the servers. These are just my ramblings, I'm not a programmer (or at least I haven't been for a long time). Nor do I claim to know if this form of distribution will escape the legal issues of storing certain data on on servers in specific areas of meatspace (I'm no lawyer (kill the lawyers)). At the very least, it seems that this scheme (or something like it, if this form of ECC is not sufficient) could be used to keep data from being lost if one or more servers gets whacked by armed forces or a nuclear bomb. I'm not even going to think about how this data could be distributed. You guys can do that... Feedback and flames welcome. John estoy at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 22 21:39:29 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:39:29 +0800 Subject: http:--www.usdoj.gov-criminal-cybercrime- Message-ID: <199801230455.WAA12772@einstein.ssz.com> Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS) 202-514-1026 Fax 202-514-6113 The CCIPS is responsible for implementing the Justice Department's Computer Crime Initiative, a comprehensive program designed to address the growing global computer crime problem. Section attorneys are actively working with other government officials (e.g., the FBI, Department of Defense, NASA) the private sector (including hardware and software vendors and telecommunications companies), academic institutions, and foreign representatives to develop a global response to cyberattacks. These attorneys, who are responsible for resolving unique issues raised by emerging computer and telecommunications technologies, litigate cases, provide litigation support to other prosecutors, train federal law enforcement personnel, comment upon and propose legislation, and coordinate international efforts to combat computer crime. _________________________________________________________________ Information is available via this web site about the following topics: I. COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE 1. The National Information Infrastructure Protection Act of 1996 II. SEARCHING AND SEIZING COMPUTERS 1. Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers 2. Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers III. PROTECTING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS : Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets 1. Federal Guidelines for Prosecution of Violations of Intellectual Property Rights 2. Operation "Counter Copy" 3. "No Electronic Theft ('NET') Act" 4. The Economic Espionage Act IV. ENCRYPTION AND COMPUTER CRIME 1. Letter from Attorney General Janet Reno and others to Members of Congress regarding law enforcement's concerns related to encryption 2. Testimony of Deputy Assistant Attorney General Robert S. Litt, Before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee on September 4, 1997 V. INTERNATIONAL ASPECTS OF COMPUTER CRIME 1. Attorney General Janet Reno's Speech to Senior Experts Representing the G-7 on January 21, 1997 2. Council of Europe Recommendation 95(13) VI. LAW ENFORCEMENT COORDINATION FOR HIGH-TECH CRIMES 1. Computer-Telecommunications Coordinator ("CTC") Program VII. PRIVACY ISSUES IN THE HIGH-TECH CONTEXT 1. Law Enforcement Concerns Related to Computerized Data Bases Enforcing the Criminal Wiretap Statute Other Relevant Links _________________________________________________________________ I. COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE _________________________________________________________________ A. The National Information Infrascructure Protection Act of 1996 In October 1996, the National Information Infrastructure Protection Act of 1996 was enacted as part of Public Law 104-294. It amended the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which is codified at 18 U.S.C. � 1030. Below you will find links to the amended version of 18 U.S.C. � 1030, as well as a legislative analysis, prepared by attorneys from the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section. * Legislative Analysis * 18 U.S.C. �1030 Amended B. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ II. SEARCHING AND SEIZING COMPUTERS _________________________________________________________________ A. Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers The process of Searching and Seizing Computers raises unique issues for law enforcement personnel. The Federal Guidelines for searching and seizing computers illustrate some of the ways in which search a computer is different from searching a desk, a file cabinet, or an automobile. * Introductory Remarks * FEDERAL GUIDELINES - Table of Contents * Download the Zipped WordPerfect file [138K]. B. Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers In October 1997, the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section published a Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers. This Supplement is intended to update the Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers that had been published in July 1994. The Supplement describes relevant federal cases decided since July 1994 as well as a number of additional earlier decisions. The Supplement also describes relevant state cases, which had not been incorporated in the original Guidelines. The cases in this Supplement are organized according to the sections in the Guidelines. Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers Preface to Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers - Table of Contents Download the Zipped WordPerfect 6.1 file [231k] C. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ III. PROTECTING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS : Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets _________________________________________________________________ A. Federal Guidelines for Prosecution of Violations of Intellectual Property Rights (Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets) The importance of the protection of intellectual property to the economic well-being and security of the United States cannot be overestimated. The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section wrote the attached manual to assist law enforcement in the investigation and prosecution of violations of federal criminal copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Section I of the manual contains an overview of the protection of intellectual property, and discusses the basic scope of copyright, trademark, and trade secret and patent law. Section II focuses on intellectual property entitled to copyright protection and Section III describes the applicability of various federal criminal statutes to copyright infringement. Section IV addresses the prosecution for trafficking in counterfeit goods under 18 U.S.C. � 2320. Section V discusses the prosecution of trade secret thefts and analyzes the recently enacted Economic Espionage Act of 1996. Finally, Section VI contains a list of contact persons, model indictments, search warrant affidavits, jury instructions, state criminal trade secret statutes, and the legislative history of the Copyright Felony Act and the Economic Espionage Act of 1996. * Table of Contents * Download the Manual Zipped WordPerfect file [###K]. B. Operation "Counter Copy" In early May, the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation released the first results of a nationwide law enforcement effort to crack down on trademark and copyright fraud, which is estimated to cost American businesses millions of dollars each year and cheat unsuspecting consumers who purchase counterfeit products. As a result of the joint effort, called Operation "Counter Copy," 35 indictments were returned since the beginning of April for copyright or trademark infringement. More information about Operation Counter Copy, including a press release and brief summaries of the cases, are available via the links below. * Summaries of Cases * FBI page - Counter Copy Cases * Press Release " C. No Electronic Theft ('NET') Act" Computers are changing the way that copyrighted goods are being illegally copied and distributed, creating new challenges for copyright owners and for law enforcement. * The Statement of Kevin V. DiGregrory, Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division before the Subcommittee on Courts and Intellectual Property of the House Committee on the Judiciary, presented September 11, 1997, describes how law enforcement is addressing this challenge and expresses the Department's support for the goals of H.R. 2265, The "No Electronic Theft ('NET') Act." A one page Summary of Statement is also available. D. The Economic Espionage Act The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section is also charged with evaluating all requests for approval of charges under the Economic Espionage Act and making a recommendation regarding the approval of such requests to the Attorney General, Deputy Attorney General, or Assistant Attorney General. In addition, the Section also prosecutes certain Economic Espionage cases directly. Four Pillars Case One well-publicized case currently being prosecuted by the Section involves the alleged theft of trade secrets by the Four Pillars Enterprise Company, LTD, of Taiwan from an American corporation. Press releases relating to that case can be found below. * Press Release: Taiwanese businessman and daughter arrested on industrial espionage charges (September 5, 1997) Press Release: Taiwanese firm, its President and his daughter indicted in industrial espionage case; Third individual charged in Ohio case (October 1, 1997) E. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ IV. ENCRYPTION AND COMPUTER CRIME _________________________________________________________________ The nation's policy on encryption must carefully balance important competing interests. The Department of Justice has a vital stake in the country's encryption policy because encryption may be used not only to protect lawful data against unauthorized intruders, it may also be used to conceal illegitimate materials from law enforcement. While we support the spread of strong encryption, we believe that the widespread dissemination of unbreakable encryption without any accommodation for law enforcement access is a serious threat to public safety and to the integrity of America's commercial infrastructure. Our goal is to encourage the use of strong encryption to protect privacy and commerce, but in a way that preserves (without extending) law enforcement's ability to protect public safety and national security. Accordingly, the Administration has promoted the manufacture and use of key recovery products, aided the development of a global key management infrastructure ("KMI"), and liberalized United States restrictions on the export of robust cryptographic products. We anticipate that market forces will make key recovery products a de facto industry standard and thus preserve the balance of privacy and public safety that our Constitution embodies. A. Letter from Attorney General Janet Reno and others to Members of Congress regarding law enforcement's concerns related to encryption On July 18, 1997, Attorney General Janet Reno and others sent a letter to Members of Congress outlining law enforcement's concerns about the public safety and national security threats posed by unbridled availability of strong encryption. It urged legislators to support a balanced approach that supports commercial and privacy interest while maintaining law enforcement's ability to investigate and prosecute serious crime. This letter was co-signed by: * Louis Freeh, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation * Barry McCaffrey, Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy * Thomas A. Constantine, Director, Drug Enforcement Administration, * Lewis C. Merletti, Director, United States Secret Service * Raymond W. Kelly, Undersecretary for Enforcement, U.S. Department of Treasury * George J. Weise, Commissioner, United States Customs Service * John W. Magaw, Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms An image of the letter, as signed, as well as the text of the letter is available via the links below: * Image of letter to Congress regarding encryption as signed Text of letter to Congress regarding encryption as signed (WordPerfect) B. Testimony of Robert S. Litt, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997 Robert S. Litt, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Justice, testified before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997. His testimony addressed encryption and one of the bills proposing to modify the United States' regulation of cryptography, H.R. 695. His tesimony, and a summary of his testimony, is available via the link below. * Summary of Robert Litt's testimony before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997 Robert Litt's testimony before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997 C. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ V. INTERNATIONAL ASPECTS OF COMPUTER CRIME _________________________________________________________________ With the explosive growth of the Internet worldwide, computer crimes increasingly are prone to have international dimensions. Some of the challenges faced by law enforcement on the international front include: harmonization of countries' criminal laws; locating and identifying perpetrators across borders; and securing electronic evidence of their crimes so that they may be brought to justice. Complex jurisdictional issues arise at each step. The Department of Justice is working with foreign governments through many channels to address global threats related to computer crime. A. Attorney General Janet Reno's speech to Senior Experts representing the G-7 on January 21, 1997 On January 21, 1997, Attorney General Janet Reno spoke to Senior Experts representing the G-7 group of leading industrialized nations (now, with the inclusion of Russia, known as The Eight). The Attorney General's speech addressed the challenges presented to law enforcement by hightech and computer criminals, and she suggested a number ways in which the United States and its allies can respond to this global threat. Her speech is available via the link below. * Janet Reno's speech to Senior Experts representing the G-7 on January 21, 1997 B. Council of Europe Recommendation 95(13) In September 1995, the Council of Europe adopted eighteen (18) recommendations relating to problems of criminal procedural law connected with information technology. These recommendations are available via the link below. * Council of Europe Recommendation 95(13) relating to problems of criminal procedural law connected with information technology, Sept. 1995 C. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ VI. LAW ENFORCEMENT COORDINATION FOR HIGH-TECH CRIMES _________________________________________________________________ A. Computer-Telecommunications Coordinator ("CTC") Program Coordination among prosecutors in high-tech crime cases has improved dramatically because of the implementation, since January 1995, of the "Computer-Telecommunications Coordinator" ("CTC") program. Under the CTC program, each United States Attorney's Office, as well as a few other Department entities, has designated at least one Assistant U.S. Attorney to serve as a CTC, with a few distinct areas of responsibility. To reach a CTC, contact the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, or the U.S. Attorney's office in a particular district. CTC responsibilities are outlined below. * CTC responsibilities B. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ VII. PRIVACY ISSUES IN THE HIGH-TECH CONTEXT _________________________________________________________________ A. Law Enforcement Concerns Related to Computerized Data Bases The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section of the Department of Justice submitted comments in response to the request of the Federal Trade Commission ("FTC") for comments on its workshop on Consumer Information Privacy and its Data Base Study. The Department is deeply concerned about the safety and security of American citizens. The Department is vigilant to take appropriate measures to guard their privacy while using all the resources at its disposal, including information resources, to investigate and prosecute violations of the federal criminal law. The comments are available via the link below: * CCIPS comments as submitted to the FTC workshop on Consumer Information Privacy and Data Base Study B. Enforcing the Criminal Wiretap Statute The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section helps to protect the privacy of Americans by enforcing the criminal wiretap statute, 18 U.S.C.� 2511. One well-publicized interception involved a conference call in which the Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich participated. The couple that intercepted the call pleaded guilty on April 25, 1997, as is described in the press release below. * Press release regarding guilty plea for interception of a communication C. Other Relevant Web Sites Go to . . . Criminal Home Pages || Justice Department Home Pages _________________________________________________________________ Updated page December 8, 1997 usdoj-jmd/irm/css/jea _________________________________________________________________ From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jan 22 21:44:04 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:44:04 +0800 Subject: Financial Cryptography 1998 Press Announcement Message-ID: Please pass this along to any member of the press you may know. Or anyone else you can think of. :-). Thanks, Robert Hettinga ----- For Immediate Release Press Contacts: Christopher D. Gerath Robert Hettinga Gerath & Associates, Inc. International Financial Cryptography Association (978) 264-4707 rah at shipwright.com chris at gerath.com Financial Cryptography '98 Conference & Exhibition to Highlight FC Technology and Use Second Annual Event is World's Leading FC Showcase Boston, MA, January 22, 1998 - The International Financial Cryptography Association (IFCA), today announced the 1998 Financial Cryptography Conference and Exhibition (FC98), to be held on February 23-27, 1998 on the island of Anguilla in the British West Indies. The FC98 Conference The International Conference on Financial Cryptography is the world's first and only peer-reviewed conference on financial cryptography. Every year, the newest research is presented in internet financial transfers, transaction clearing and network-based financial instruments. This year, invited speakers and panel participants include such industry experts as Dr. David Chaum, holder of several very basic financial cryptography patents and founder of DigiCash Corporation, and Dr. Ron Rivest, who invented the first practical public key cryptography system and founder of RSA Data Security, Inc. However, the primary focus of the Conference will be the results of financial cryptography research from experts at AT&T Labs, Bell Laboratories/Lucent, CyberCash, France Telecom, JavaSoft, Kyushu University, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Microsoft, MIT, Princeton University, Queensland University, University of Southern California, The US Naval Research Laboratory, Valicert, Verisign and others. Last year's Conference, FC97, was the subject of an article in the July, 1997 issue of Wired Magazine, an NHK-Japan television program, and was covered by the Financial Times, the New York Times, and Institutional Investor. Financial cryptography was also the cover story of the Setember 8, 1997 issue of Forbes Magazine. "Everyone knows business on the Internet is growing, but financial cryptography and the vanishing cost of individual electronic transactions will create entirely new forms of business," said Robert Hettinga, IFCA founder and FC98 General Chairman. "Simple examples include the possible replacement of many forms of book-entry financial settlement with digital bearer versions, and, of course, cash settled electronic auctions for anything you can send down a wire," Hettinga continued. The FC98 Conference Proceedings will be available later in the year from Springer Verlag as part of the Lecture Notes in Computer Science series. See the selection of papers for the FC98 conference at . The FC98 Exhibition The FC98 Exhibition, which runs concurrently with the Conference, serves as a showcase for the newest financial cryptography products. The presentations, demonstrations, and panels of FC98 Exhibition Program will explain what kinds of financial cryptography services and implementations are available in the market today, while the Exhibition floor will have booths from many of the top companies using and selling financial cryptography today. The FC98 Workshop for IT professionals and Senior Managers The Financial Cryptography '98 Conference and Exhibition will be followed by the FC98 Workshop for Senior Managers and IS Professionals, which will be held the week following the Conference and Exhibition, from March 2-6, 1998, at the same location. The intensive 40-hour FC98 Workshop gives senior managers and IT professionals an understanding of the fundamentals of strong cryptography as applied to financial operations on public networks, along with hands-on instruction in the integration and implementation of these technologies. FC98's Affiliations and Sponsorship Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the International Association for Cryptologic Research. Sponsoring organizations include RSA Data Security Inc., ; C2NET, Inc., ; Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla, ; Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank; Offshore Information Services, ; and Shipwright Development Corporation, . The FC98 Organizing Committee consists of: Vincent Cate and Robert Hettinga, General Chairs; Rafael Hirschfeld, Conference Chair; Matthew Franklin, Conference Co-Chair; Ian Goldberg, Workshop Leader; Lynwood Bell, Exhibition Steering Committee Chair; and Blanc Weber, Exhibits and Sponsorship Manager. Registration and Travel Registration for FC98 can be done directly on the Internet at , by calling (264) 497-3255, faxing (264) 497-2756, email with PGP encryption to or physically mailing the registration form to 949 Old Ta, The Valley, Anguilla, BWI. Admission to the Exhibition and Conference requires advance payment of the $1,000 admission fee. If you're interested in Exhibition space or becoming an event sponsor, please email Blanc Weber, . Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan or St. Martin. There are several non-stop flights a day from various European and US locations. Connection through to Anguilla can be made through American Eagle, through LIAT, or in the case of St. Martin, with a short ferry ride to Anguilla. Consult a travel agent for details or visit our web page at . ### Service marks, trademarks or registered trademarks are property of their respective owners. ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 22 21:48:14 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:48:14 +0800 Subject: Killing An Arab (fwd) Message-ID: <199801230544.XAA13132@einstein.ssz.com> Hi David, Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:38:08 -0500 > From: David Miller > Subject: Re: Killing An Arab > > 1 : a theory that there are no universal essences in reality and that > > the mind can frame > > no single concept or image corresponding to any universal or general > > term > > 2 : the theory that only individuals and no abstract entities (as > > essences, classes, or > > propositions) exist -- compare ESSENTIALISM, REALISM Both of these are what they purport to prohibit. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From weidai at eskimo.com Thu Jan 22 23:23:41 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:23:41 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: <19980122231624.60180@eskimo.com> On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 03:19:11PM -0800, Brad Threatt wrote: > There are several examples people have mentioned here: > Roxen, junkbuster, etc. > > I happen to use one called WebFilter, a patched CERN httpd > (http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/NoShit) which allows > program filtering based on URL regexp matching. In addition to all of the ad blocking software mentioned on that page, If you're running the Microsoft Proxy Server, I wrote an ISAPI filter DLL plugin that can be used for blocking ads based URL regexp matching. See http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai. > Of course, now that Netscape's releasing their source code, what > would *really* help the practice take off would be integration of > one of these systems into Netscape. > > On the downside, this is sure to trigger an ad Arms Race, with content > providers melding together content and ads. Right now, I can view the > web with almost no ads, but if a million people are filtering ads off a > site, you can bet there will be countermeasures, and lots of them. It's > difficult to imagine the filters winning, without more advanced support > (for example, cropping images to remove ads, and collaborative filtering > pools). But if a million people are using the system, and 0.01% are > coders committed to making it work, well, you can do a lot with 100 > brains. It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from blocking porn. All of the technology being developed for the latter purpose (PICS for example) will eventually be used for the former. Filtering technology in general will advance as the net becomes more diverse and people seek to protect themselves from unwelcome information. I think the long-term outlook for content providers is pretty bleak. How do you make a profit when your copyrights are not enforceable and your ads are easily filtered? From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Thu Jan 22 23:23:42 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:23:42 +0800 Subject: Sacremento Sheriff's deputies get M-16's Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980122230006.006bc0dc@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On the news tonight, channel 3 and 31 both featured stories about Sacramento sheriff deputy supervisors getting "semi-automatic AR-15" rifles. It was hilarious. Channel 3 showed a close-up of the receiver, which was clearly marked with "M16A1". I got this funny feeling that them thar AR-15's will rock 'n roll if the deputy supervisor finds himself in a North Hollywood style situation...can you say Disinformation, boys and girls? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMg/88JF0kXqpw3MEQIAigCg/bXFrIS02GRZW65e10uZrh8QGSEAoLv2 2xmcXhKUBvrWN1Lm7CtE1PhQ =P5v5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 You have received this message because at some time during the past two years you have requested to be put on the RPK New Zealand Ltd. company mailing list. (We're the Fast Public Key Encryption company). If you wish to be removed from the list, please forward this message to remove at rpkusa.com -------------------------------- RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in the world. Since it was built outside the United States, it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type to setup and use which makes it quite unique. You can learn more about this product by reading the press release below or by visiting the web site at www.InvisiMail.com. We are also offering FREE downloads of the RPK InvisiMail Intro product. Please give it a try and pass it along to anyone you like. -------------------------------- For Immediate Release Contact: Sal Cataldi, Cataldi PR +1 212.941.9464, scataldi at earthlink.net, www.InvisiMail.com RPK InvisiMail(tm), secure Internet e-mail with globally available strong encryption for Microsoft, Netscape platforms SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 12, 1998 - InvisiMail Ltd (www.InvisiMail.com) announced today immediate worldwide availability of RPK(tm) InvisiMail(tm), a standards-based e-mail security add-in for Microsoft, Netscape and other POP3/SMTP Internet e-mail clients and gateway servers. Tested and certified by the International Computer Security Association (www.ncsa.com), RPK InvisiMail automatically and transparently encrypts e-mail messages and attachments, authenticates the sender and verifies the contents of each message have not been changed in transit. RPK InvisiMail is globally available with high strength encryption. InvisiMail and the underlying RPK encryption algorithm were developed outside the United States. Therefore, InvisiMail is not subject to restrictive U.S. export policies. RPK InvisiMail is as easy to set up and use as anti-virus software, and just as important. While Microsoft and Netscape battle each other with incompatible and difficult to use security offerings, InvisiMail seamlessly integrates with ALL popular POP3/SMTP e-mail products including Netscape, Microsoft, Eudora, Pegasus, Calypso -- more than any other solution available today -- making it the preferred e-mail security product for multi-platform use, worldwide. All InvisiMail users can send the FREE InvisiMail Intro version to anyone worldwide, providing compatibility without requiring others to purchase anything, making InvisiMail unique among e-mail security offerings. "Most people don't realize that their e-mail can be forged, altered or read by anyone, any time, without any evidence," said Jack Oswald, President and CEO of RPK Ltd. "Without products like RPK InvisiMail, communications on the Internet are untrustworthy." InvisiMail uses the RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine, the strongest cryptography available worldwide today. RPK is dramatically faster than the well-known RSA algorithm, yet just as secure. RPK has been analyzed by world class cryptographers who have issued reports on the security and integrity of the technology. "InvisiMail is the easiest, fastest, most transparent e-mail security product I have seen," said Kevin Shannon, President of net*Gain, a specialist in launching Internet companies. "This is the product we've all been waiting for." As part of its official launch, InvisiMail Professional is available FREE to all New Zealand residents for ninety days. RPK InvisiMail is available in two desktop versions: Intro (FREE) and Professional (introductory price $29.95). RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Gateway Server will be available Q2 1998. InvisiMail can be downloaded from: www.InvisiMail.com. All trademarks and registered trademarks are those of their respective companies. *** From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 22 23:59:39 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:59:39 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34C7D3EF.632F@ehq.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122235319.0088ca40@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 11:16 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote: >It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from blocking porn. All >of the technology being developed for the latter purpose (PICS for >example) will eventually be used for the former. With both PICS ratings for web pages and the new TV ratings, somehow the ratings only apply to the program and not the ads. After all, if each TV commercial had to be separately rated, people would rapidly develop equipment to autoblock commercials, and that just wouldn't do. >I think the long-term outlook for content providers is pretty bleak. How >do you make a profit when your copyrights are not enforceable and your ads >are easily filtered? Unfortunately, you're probably right, though providers and advertisers who really want their messages to get through will find ways to do it. The current banners are nice, friendly implementations in that they're easy to identify and block; newer ones will just be sneakier. They'll come from the same machine as the real page, or they'll be embedded in the background images, or the servers will insist on not shipping you the pages you want until you've downloaded the banner (e.g. by putting some of the interesting material into images.) Sure, it requires some server rewriting, but there's money in it. Alternatively, they may go to clickthrough payment models - the web page owner only gets paid when people click on the ad, though perhaps at a higher rate than current "impressions". Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 23 00:15:35 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:15:35 +0800 Subject: How to eliminate liability? In-Reply-To: <19980123052334.20406.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123000851.00839a40@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 09:23 PM 1/22/98 PST, John M wrote: >There has been considerable discussion recently about datahavens, how no >one physical location in meatspace is safe, and how there is no single >place on earth that a datahaven could exist that would accept all kinds >of information. >Well, what about spreading the information out? Something simple like > [...] and spread it to several servers. This way no one server has all >the information necessary to recreate the "offending" information and if >one server gets "hit" (killed), the information can still be regenerated >from the the information and ECC from the other servers. Secret Sharing is easy, and there are a number of implementations with useful properties like being able to read the original from K of N parts.* The problem is how to implement it in ways that protect the server operators as well as the information providers. For instance, the author's client software can do the split and send the shares too different servers, and make sure the readers know how to find the pieces; this can even be automated enough to make it convenient. This not only makes it hard for the Bad Guys to find the pieces, it makes it impossible for the data haven provider to know what's being stored there, and even if the site is siezed it doesn't give up the critical information. This is a Good Thing, and we've discussed it. On the other hand, what happens if a Bad Guy wants to entrap the operator, by planting child pornography, pirated software, and TOP SECRET data in the data haven, advertising on Usenet and then calling the cops. Anybody, including the cops, can retrieve the contraband and bust them. So what are the alternatives, besides obviously encrypting your disks so it's harder to determine what's on them besides the plant, and the ever popular "don't let them find your physical location"? Perhaps the data haven can do the split and farm the data out to other data havens - but how do they know the data they're receiving is really a slice of contraband data instead of Yet Another Plant? It gets pretty convoluted. [* You can read about secret sharing in Schneier. ] Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 23 01:03:37 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:03:37 +0800 Subject: Search warrants, was Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801230244.UAA11653@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123003758.0089c100@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 08:44 PM 1/22/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> > Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of >> > the government? >> In theory, executive. (That way legislative writes laws, executive >> decides if they want to enforce them, judicial decides if they're legal or >> not.. ) In theory, of course.. [..] >Then how, Constitutionaly speaking, do they have get the responsbility to >search when it is clearly a judicial responsibility (that is where it is >in the Constitution) Going and doing stuff is an Executive Branch function; enforcing laws is an Executive Branch function. Issuing the warrant allowing the police to go search or arrest someone is a judicial function, and is generally done on request by the police or prosecutors. In the case of early-60s New York, of course, it simply wasn't bothered with. :-) >and in cases such as Evans -v- Gore the Supreme Court >has found that the judicial body can't transfer or relinquish it's >responsibilities even if it *wants* to? I'm not familiar with the case - got a pointer? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From 0000000 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 23 21:09:04 1998 From: 0000000 at hotmail.com (0000000 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:09:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Free Internet Service Message-ID: <> Fellow Networker, WE WILL EITHER FIND A WAY OR MAKE ONE." - HANNIBAL " AS YOU SOW, SO SHALL YOU REAP" - MARK 9-23 Stop the Pornography A Brand-New Family Friendly ISP is now in Pre-Launch! This ISP Blocks the pornographic Emails and sites. Get your Free Self-Replicating Web Page now to hold your position close to the top! CLICK HERE TO GET MORE INFO. !!! Please put isp as subject CLICK TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR LIST Please put remove as subject Refer 5 friends and you monthly service is free Looking forward to welcoming you aboard! Sincerely, Frank IQI From 0000000 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 23 21:09:04 1998 From: 0000000 at hotmail.com (0000000 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:09:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Free Internet Service Message-ID: <> Fellow Networker, WE WILL EITHER FIND A WAY OR MAKE ONE." - HANNIBAL " AS YOU SOW, SO SHALL YOU REAP" - MARK 9-23 Stop the Pornography A Brand-New Family Friendly ISP is now in Pre-Launch! This ISP Blocks the pornographic Emails and sites. Get your Free Self-Replicating Web Page now to hold your position close to the top! CLICK HERE TO GET MORE INFO. !!! Please put isp as subject CLICK TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR LIST Please put remove as subject Refer 5 friends and you monthly service is free Looking forward to welcoming you aboard! Sincerely, Frank IQI From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 23 06:10:15 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:10:15 +0800 Subject: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim May writes: > > You are hereby condemned to receive all the rants of Nobuki-san, Detweiler > tentacles, and Dim Vulis artwork. Let's have a separate mailing list. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From adam at homeport.org Fri Jan 23 07:10:15 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:10:15 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801231500.KAA17132@homeport.org> Ryan Anderson wrote: | > Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm | > id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my | > post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal at pgp.com as he seems to think | > it's a respectable algorithm: | | Well, he said that he wasn't aware of any serious cryptanalysis, | specifically on this list. In all honesty, that's a fully truthful | statement. Tim May has conveniently confirmed that there *has* been some | real cryptanalysis on it, confirming that it's not a good algorithm, but | it's not snake-oil. (If it get's submitted for peer review, can you | really call it that?) Tim has admitted that he made a mistake. I'll offer $25 to the first person who sends me a URL or paper reference to something published by Jan 1, 1998 offering an interesting cryptanlysis of Misty, because I'm tired of seeing people pick on it because of Nobuki's poor English. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 23 08:12:03 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:12:03 +0800 Subject: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:00 AM -0800 1/23/98, Adam Shostack wrote: >Ryan Anderson wrote: >| > Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm >| > id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my >| > post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal at pgp.com as he seems to think >| > it's a respectable algorithm: >| >| Well, he said that he wasn't aware of any serious cryptanalysis, >| specifically on this list. In all honesty, that's a fully truthful >| statement. Tim May has conveniently confirmed that there *has* been some >| real cryptanalysis on it, confirming that it's not a good algorithm, but >| it's not snake-oil. (If it get's submitted for peer review, can you >| really call it that?) > >Tim has admitted that he made a mistake. I'll offer $25 to the first >person who sends me a URL or paper reference to something published by >Jan 1, 1998 offering an interesting cryptanlysis of Misty, because I'm >tired of seeing people pick on it because of Nobuki's poor English. Yes, I was thinking of FEAL. And even FEAL was not "snake oil," in that the inventors of it were not trying to use deception to promote it. (I consider this to be part of what "snake oil" is.) My comments to Nobuki-san are lighthearted jokes about his "You send me money, I send you Misty" repeated nonsense. I doubt the guy is even actually Japanese, for various reasons. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From stutz at dsl.org Fri Jan 23 08:24:44 1998 From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:24:44 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <19980122231624.60180@eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Wei Dai wrote: > I think the long-term outlook for content providers is pretty bleak. How > do you make a profit when your copyrights are not enforceable and your ads > are easily filtered? I think this is actually a very encouraging sign for content providers. The profit model, however, will have to change -- those models that work for free software businesses will likely also work for other forms of information as well. From remailer at sabotage.net Fri Jan 23 08:43:35 1998 From: remailer at sabotage.net (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:43:35 +0800 Subject: Surprisingly fast PGP5.5(i) scanning and proofreading Message-ID: <199801231635.RAA13976@basement.replay.com> From: ica at hawking.fokus.gmd.de (Ingmar Camphausen) Newsgroups: de.comp.security,alt.security.pgp,comp.security.pgp.discuss Subject: Surprisingly fast PGP5.5(i) scanning and proofreading Message-ID: <6aaf44$id8 at stern.fokus.gmd.de> I am probably not the only one surprised how "out of a sudden" the 5.5 version of PGP was scanned and proofread by Stale Schumacher alone (as it seemed to me). Hence I asked him and Teun Nijssen (they, according to the README in the PGPsdk 5.5 distribution on www.pgpi.com, did all the work) how come they were so much faster and there wasn't a coordinated "distributed" proofreading as with the "international" version of PGP5.0. Teun took the time for a detailed answer and was so kind to permit its free distribution; so here is what he wrote in reply to my request: ---8<--snip-------------------------------------------------------- Hello Ingmar, there are no secrets in this reply; you may do with it whatever you like. /I was somewhat surprised how suddenly and fast PGP5.5(i) was scanned *and* /proofread. Thank you. /Having participated in the proofreading of the 5.0i version and with the /amount of time spent by the "correctors" all over the world in mind, I had /the impression that 5.5 was there and proofread like "a bolt out of the /blue"! It took roughly 100 hours of stamina, between Christmas and 5 January to scan the complete 5.5 books and to correct the 5000 pages of the PGPsdk and Win version. Scanning was no longer an issue, as we had now an Automatic Document Feeder for the HP Scanjet 4C at our disposal. This ADF has been the hero of the two weeks: actually it did not scan 7500 pages ("tools" book + 5.5) but about 10.000 pages, since an initial set of about 3000 pages was discarded when the OCR quality proved not optimal yet. This wonderful ADF misfed exactly zero pages on all this effort. It can contain 50 pages input, so 10.000 pages require 200 manual interventions 30 minutes separated from each other (the HP Scanjet 4C combined with Omnipage Pro takes a little bit less than 30 seconds per page). One Pentium did nothing but scanning, several days starting at 9:00 and finishing around 23:00. The reason that correction went so much better than on either of the two editions of PGP 5.0 was in the new format of the books. The fonts are now excellent, including visible 'tab' characters (kind of triangles), visible spaces (if more than one space is used somewhere, the second one is printed as a tiny black triangle) and a special 'underscore' with little curls. This new book format is supported by a truely marvelous new 'repair' utility, that obviously was optimized to correct the results that come from using an Omnipage version HP Scanjet 4c: the intro of the book "Tools for Publishing Source Code via OCR" describe setting-up the OCR on a Mac/Omnipage/HP 4c. Anyway, repairing 100 pages now takes 4 hours worst case (if very many visible spaces are used: Omnipage often mis-counts multiple visible spaces). And best case: 100 pages can be repaired in half an hour. That is twice the speed of scanning. The true horror of PGP 5.0 was the BINARIES.ZIP file. It was done within 8 hours for 5.5 Windows. The trick was simply to manually delete any page that contained any error. Then run the 'sortpage' utility to report what was missing and *re-scan* those pages. In this way it went from 217 pages to 30 and then to only 6 pages that needed real correction, because at the margin of these pages some lines had not got enough black ink from the book print process. /Did you get any special ...emmmm...support? very definitely not! Neither would we have accepted it should it have been available. It was not available. We think this game should be played "by the book" (sic). The books were simply an order of magnitude better. I think that someone at PGP Inc really tested scanning this time, before printing. Now if they print a next bookset, let's hope they pretty-print everything, discarding trailing visible whitespace and replacing initial spaces by tabs on all lines... /Or did I just miss a "call for volunteers" etc. like the one that /preceeded the release of PGP5.0i? Nope, there was no call this time, because Stale and me could do it alone. /I am very interested in a satisfying answer to this question, for it is /closely related to the credibility of the international PGP website and /the new software version. I agree with that objective. That is the reason that I wrote this answer as extensively as I did and why I permit you to publish it as widely as you like. cheers, teun Senior Project Manager Computer Centre Tilburg University ------------------------------------------>8----snip------------- The original reply was PGP-signed by Teun; it should be available via http://www.in-berlin.de/User/aurora/teun_pgp55-ocr.txt from today, ~ 7pm UTC (GMT) on. Ingmar -- Ingmar Camphausen camphausen at fokus.gmd.de PGP key on server GMD FOKUS = Research Institute for Open Communication Systems From eli at gs160.sp.cs.cmu.edu Fri Jan 23 08:56:23 1998 From: eli at gs160.sp.cs.cmu.edu (Eli Brandt) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:56:23 +0800 Subject: FCPUNX:Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801231205.HAA23105@anon7.pfmc.net> Message-ID: <199801231628.IAA08748@toad.com> Igor Chudov @ home writes: > I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. "The Internet Junkbuster Proxy(TM) gets rid of stuff you don't want while surfing the Web, such as banner ads and cookies. It's free." http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/ijb.html -- Eli Brandt | eli+ at cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/ From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 23 10:00:07 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:00:07 +0800 Subject: sleep writing? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801231751.LAA14854@einstein.ssz.com> Hi David, Forwarded message: > >Consequently, a contradiction emerges between the universality of intellectual labor (the search for > >universal truth and the good of all) and the particularity of the interests served. The intellectual > middle rival? devil rim lad? This is too weird. I believe the entire problem rests in that concept 'universal truth', again a veiled reference to a theism of some sort or another, a fundamental transcendance. > That reminds me. When I was in Austin, I did notice that they had quite an incredible amount of > public access TV. We spend quite a bit of money on it that is for shure. I believe we have like 5 or 6 channels currently. I worked on a program for access television a few years ago doing post production, video processing, and audio sweetening. It was a soap opera that we filmed in a local retirement home and even won an award at some contest in England. It was called 'Silver Time'. The cool thing is that anyone can go down and by taking a couple of 4 hour classes put their own show on. Because I know the person who does their technical support via contract through one of my customers (CVS) they'll let me go in and play around for free. They have some quite professional equipment, Raptors and several non-linear editing decks as well as a bunch of Amiga Video Toasters and such. That experience is one of the reasons I ended getting my own Toaster. The hard drive of which failed and I have spend the last few evenings, between answering your traffic, rebuilding. It finaly came back online yesterday and I think I've just about got it all rebuilt software wise. One of the local Austin Cypherpunks works on a variety of shows down there and occassionaly puts on his own video game review production. We had hoped to do a 30 minute 'state of crypto today' show but we never could get the momentum going. Jim From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 23 10:18:57 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:18:57 +0800 Subject: Test [No reply please] Message-ID: <199801231815.MAA15013@einstein.ssz.com> Test No reply please ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 23 10:52:01 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:52:01 +0800 Subject: Misty??? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980123183020.00727acc@pop.pipeline.com> One version of MISTY appeared a couple of years ago, and it was discussed on cpunks then. Mitsubishi has had brief descriptions of it since then as the algorithm used on its LSI chip. Here are two almost identical Melco blurbs which describe the features of MISTY1 and MYSTY2: http://www.melco.co.jp/rd_home/map/j_s/topics/new/misty_e.html http://www.mitsubishi.com/ghp_japan/TechShowcase/Text/tsText06.html Note that these undated sites promise to publicize the algorithm and state that public testing of algorithms is a means of assuring their strength. Matsui, one of its authors, is a highly respected cryptographer and he's a regular participant in international crypto conferences. His articles on the ciphers underlying MISTY are listed in the IETF draft for it: http://jya.com/misty1.htm For those who wish to see the 25 draft encryption algorithms submitted to IETF in 1997 (MISTY1 the last) see a list at: http://jya.com/ietf-dea-97.htm From honig at otc.net Fri Jan 23 11:21:06 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:21:06 +0800 Subject: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. In-Reply-To: <01ISPZTCTU9U00AS02@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123100807.007ec770@206.40.207.40> At 03:46 PM 1/23/98 +1100, Pearson Shane wrote: >Hi William, > >Many thanks for the reply. > >I was hoping it was ok having Blowfish, >but I guess it could be their own >"efficient" version. > >Bye for now. > WHGIII gave you the most conservative answer. That is, in cryptology, the correct answer. A more detailed analysis would say: * the blowfish algorithm is considered strong for various reasons * IFF the Norton program were written correctly (not just the algorithm implementation, but key hiding, worrying about getting swapped onto disk by the OS, etc.) then it would be a useful tool for security. * Without examining the source, any assumption of security from using the tool relies *absolutely* on your trust of the implementor. (In a Turing award paper, Ritchie described how you implicitly must trust your compiler-writers too.. the compiler could have clandestine functions like inserting extra code when it recognizes patterns) So you see how WHGIII was correct, although for practical purposes (depending on the value of your data and the attackers you anticipate, plus the security of the rest of your system (only as strong as the weakest link)) you may find this tool acceptable in the non-exportable version. Keylength-limited versions are worthless from a security viewpoint. But on this mailing list, you won't find the yes/no answer you probably want. Which is probably correct behavior for this list. Cheers, ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." From jim.burnes at ssds.com Fri Jan 23 11:27:55 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:27:55 +0800 Subject: PGP SDK integrated into Communicator 5.x Mail? Message-ID: <34C8ED9B.283E7D4@ssds.com> OK: I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this one. With Communicator 5.x source code being free, how long will it take for someone to integrate it with PGP SDK (and mixmaster and nym.alias.net nyms for that matter?) Whew! jim -- "How do you explain school to higher intelligence?" Elliot to his brother in ET From adam at homeport.org Fri Jan 23 11:49:40 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:49:40 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801231938.OAA19072@homeport.org> Markus Kuhn wrote: | > NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE CODE | > AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET | | Excellent! | | Finally mainstream software companies start to understand that security | critical software has to be provided to the customer in full compilable | source code to allow independent security evaluation. I'm not sure that this is the message they're sending at all. They're trying to work the Linux/GNU model of getting a horde of volunteer programmers to improve their product, and base other products on it, because of the ease of integration. I don't know that security was even on their minds. | No formal CC/ITSEC evaluation process can beat the scrutiny of the | Internet crowd. I wonder how long we have to wait for the day on which Not that the internet crowd is such hot shit, either. The freely usable FWTK contained a *really* easy to find replay attack for about 3 years, befire I pointed it out at the Crypto rump session. (www.homeport.org/~adam/crypto97.html). Small code. Comments pointing to problems. Security critical in some instances. 3 Years to find. Adam | we can download the latest GPL'ed Windows NT version source code from | Microsoft's web server ... -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From adam at homeport.org Fri Jan 23 11:57:07 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:57:07 +0800 Subject: Forbiden Library soon to open to the public (fwd) Message-ID: <199801231601.LAA17521@homeport.org> > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:25:32 -0500 > To: voynich at rand.org > From: Daniel Harms > Subject: Forbiden Library soon to open to the public > > This was on another mailing list, but I thought it might > be of interest to the list. Does anyone have any more details? > > [Slightly edited] > > >Greetings, ladies and gentlemen. > > > >The evening news has just announced a rather unexpected decision taken by > >the Vatican's "Sant'Uffizio" (Holy Office): the whole archive of Holy > >Office secret and sensitive documents, also known as the "Forbidden > >Library", currently occupying 27 large rooms in the Vatican Library, will > >shortly be open to the public for the purpose of academic research. > >The works, collected between 1542 and 1903, include official records of > >Inquisition trials and supposed miracle investigations, various tons worth > >of confidential papers, a huge library of indexed and forbidden books, etc. > >According to Cardinal Ratzinger "Researchers will probably have quite a few > >surprises". > > > > Daniel Harms dmharms at acsu.buffalo.edu > "Fie on the immortality of cast-iron lawn deer!" > -- H. P. Lovecraft > -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Fri Jan 23 12:09:17 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:09:17 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Very useful for playing Quake, may also have cryto application. ;) On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > to be developed. > Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. > It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years > with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Fri Jan 23 12:13:07 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:13:07 +0800 Subject: Certification Message-ID: You seem to have spammed the wrong mailing list. Most of us do not want to become certified sales / marketing droids, although we occaisonally keep them around the office as pets. On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 sales&marketingproz at diku.dk wrote: > > > "From: Steve Camfield, SME Board of Directors > > > It is my privilege to formally invite you to become certified in sales or marketing > management. Certification sends a clear message to your customers and colleagues > that you are a true professional and have surpassed the highest standards of education, > experience, and knowledge. > > For your convenience, I have placed full certification details and answers to questions > you may have at www.selling.org (see Certification). > > > ------------------------- > SME is the non-profit worldwide association of sales and marketing management. > Your address was provided to us by one of our chapters based on meeting attendance, > inquiry, or suggestion by a local SME chapter board member but you may ensure removal > by pressing the "Remove" option at the bottom of www.selling.org. > > From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Sat Jan 24 04:30:38 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:30:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 24 '98 Message-ID: <19980124083515.10769.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> Welcome to Saturday's issue of Eureka! 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TRANSLATIONS As well as English you can now choose any of these languages DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm ESPA�OL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm FRAN�AIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?240 Pic 2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?241 Pic 3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?242 Pic 4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?243 Pic 5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?244 Pic 6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?245 Pic 7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?246 Pic 8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?247 Pic 9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?248 Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?249 ============================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US. ============================================================ From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 23 12:33:51 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:33:51 +0800 Subject: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] Message-ID: <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > POLL SHOWS BILL GATES' POPULARITY GROWING > > Gates poll graphic January 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 1:58 p.m. EST (1858 GMT) > > (CNN) -- The popularity of Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates among > Americans is growing, according to a CNN/Time magazine poll, and > almost half of the computer users interviewed favor having the > company become the dominant provider of Internet services. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 23 12:41:44 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:41:44 +0800 Subject: Sucking Sound... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the White House lately? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMjG3sJF0kXqpw3MEQKBFACfZitukIJPLnErjBCslImDtaJ7ITwAn3cJ 52LjcqMbFNWXcOxaBTWk7L8S =jbPk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From whgiii at invweb.net Fri Jan 23 13:10:31 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 05:10:31 +0800 Subject: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801232117.QAA15910@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801232028.OAA15813 at einstein.ssz.com>, on 01/23/98 at 02:28 PM, Jim Choate said: >Forwarded message: >> POLL SHOWS BILL GATES' POPULARITY GROWING >> >> Gates poll graphic January 23, 1998 >> Web posted at: 1:58 p.m. EST (1858 GMT) >> >> (CNN) -- The popularity of Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates among >> Americans is growing, according to a CNN/Time magazine poll, and >> almost half of the computer users interviewed favor having the >> company become the dominant provider of Internet services. And the sheeple bindly march on. :( - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMj24o9Co1n+aLhhAQEXVwP8CnRvxvwou3wmDxEXTvbdm6dPO56dW5sy ZdT4WIRaBnW7pZ7ZsXBMrer4xotUhVCURiYatcbzVb1O+T+UwmP7Lm6AGL1btuSS AYfB/odSX3gD3YQcvK9GAsYFrkq09I5j4x5UUVZAMB6SpkaJFc4AHrZX2+8UBXP9 iXuWtpwRkM8= =lJis -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From estoy at hotmail.com Fri Jan 23 14:20:15 1998 From: estoy at hotmail.com (John M) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:20:15 +0800 Subject: How to eliminate liability? Message-ID: <19980123220714.7351.qmail@hotmail.com> Bill, Thanks for your response. Such a simple idea, I kinda figgered (was hoping) that it was already thought of, but I hadn't heard of it. I have been meaning to buy Schneier's book... One of my points, however, is that if the division of the encrypted information is done properly, even if the private key were deduced by whatever means, all they would find is (for instance) the high order bits and some ECC, but nothing that could be used to regenerate any meaningful information without the other parts. Because of this, I have been asking myself, how could any one datahaven operator be held responsible for holding classified, porn, or other information if they only have a meaningless slice of it? Perhaps this is more a legal question (even more out of my league) than anything... Any comments? >Secret Sharing is easy, and there are a number of implementations with >useful properties like being able to read the original from K of N parts.* >The problem is how to implement it in ways that protect the server >operators as well as the information providers. For instance, >the author's client software can do the split and send the shares too >different servers, and make sure the readers know how to find the pieces; >this can even be automated enough to make it convenient. >This not only makes it hard for the Bad Guys to find the pieces, >it makes it impossible for the data haven provider to know what's >being stored there, and even if the site is siezed it doesn't give up >the critical information. This is a Good Thing, and we've discussed it. > >On the other hand, what happens if a Bad Guy wants to entrap the operator, >by planting child pornography, pirated software, and TOP SECRET data >in the data haven, advertising on Usenet and then calling the cops. >Anybody, including the cops, can retrieve the contraband and bust them. >So what are the alternatives, besides obviously encrypting your disks >so it's harder to determine what's on them besides the plant, >and the ever popular "don't let them find your physical location"? >Perhaps the data haven can do the split and farm the data out to >other data havens - but how do they know the data they're receiving >is really a slice of contraband data instead of Yet Another Plant? >It gets pretty convoluted. > >[* You can read about secret sharing in Schneier. ] > Thanks! > Bill >Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com >PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jan 23 14:32:16 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:32:16 +0800 Subject: Group works on way to make Net payments work. Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:28:39 -0800 (PST) From: William Knowles To: DCSB Subject: Group works on way to make Net payments work. Organization: Home for retired social engineers & unrepented cryptophreaks MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: William Knowles SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - Someone out there is actually worried that you might end up with a desktop littered with different digital wallets or that you might not get a receipt for your pay-per-view time visiting an X-rated site. In fact, a group of 30 electronic payment companies are working on a protocol that would ensure that all digital wallets and cybercash registers will know how to talk to each other and issue the proper digital "paper trails." Spearheaded by ecash pioneer, Mondex International, the group is working on an way to make a single digital wallet on the desktop to interact with the payment systems designed by everyone from CyberCash to AT&T to Wells Fargo Bank. By using XML (extended markup language), the protocol is designed to ensure interoperability among the software used by buyers, sellers, and financial institutions to carry out online transactions. The open trading protocol hasn't gotten half the attention that SET, the secure electronic transaction protocol, has. And, at first glance, its job may not seem as crucial since it's not about guaranteeing the security of transactions. But those aboard the new protocol-defining body say their system of compatible operations is key to getting consumers to really embrace e-commerce. "Imagine if you've got an IBM wallet, a Microsoft wallet, and a VeriFone wallet," suggested Mondex International development co-director, David Burdett. "Unless you have some standard way in which these wallets can communicate with each other and with merchants, you aren't going to end up with interoperability and the consumer's going to have to have lots of different wallets on the PC." The goal of the open trading protocol is to make transparent the traditional steps in a transaction: the offer for sale, agreement to purchase, generation of receipt, and attendant paper trail. And to make it all happen with no more than a click of the buyer's mouse. "(The open trading protocol) is trying to replicate in the virtual world what people have in the real world: things like invoices, making payments, getting receipts and delivery of goods," said Burdett. And to guarantee that you can have real-world accountability, even for virtual purchases. "If you're only getting delivery of virtual goods over the Net, such as software or entertainment content that you pay for, there's no physical delivery at all; but you still want a receipt and all the other normal aspects of a transaction," Burdett said. A preliminary version of the proposed common language was posted early this month to the OTP Web site, by the 30-member consortium, which includes CyberCash, DigiCash, IBM, MasterCard, Mondex, Netscape, Oracle, Sun Microsystems, VeriFone, and Wells Fargo Bank. Conspicuously absent from the coalition are Visa International, which reportedly declined to join the coalition when invited by Mondex, and Microsoft, which apparently opted out of the group's plan because it is busy developing an alternate standard called the Value Chain Initiative. Still, Microsoft's absence isn't expected to thwart widespread adoption of the protocol. "There's a lot of flexibility with these protocols," said Zona Research analyst Vernon Keenan, who pointed out that the group protocol and Microsoft's version are not necessarily mutually exclusive. "The key factor to determine adoption is whether ... the major commerce server players incorporate these protocols." And it seems at least several will, since they've already joined the ranks of open trading protocol proponents. -- The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston -- http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 23 14:41:03 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:41:03 +0800 Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980122094933.00844100@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <1y5RJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> bill.stewart at pobox.com writes: > >Jack Aaron's, the commodities division of Goldman Sachs, controls inter alia > >like 99% of US coffee supply. if you try to circumvent their monopoly, > >by trying to import a material amount of coffee, whether it's the cheap shit > >for proles or the high-end caffeine fix from Kenya, you and your suppliers > >just might find yourself in a lot more trouble that the computer manusfactur > >who were reluctant to put the free mickeysoft browser on their dekstop. > >Why doesn't DOJ come down on Goldman Sachs? Does it have anything to do wit > >the fact that a Goldman Sachs partner is in Clinton's cabinet? > > Yow - talk about threats to the Computer Industry - Controlling our > Coffee Supply can affect the productivity of the Entire Country! > These Monopolists are after our precious bodily fluids! Purity Of Essence[tm] > > BTW, if you've ever been to Sacramento, CA, that hive of villiany > and stupidity, there's apparently a law or custom which says that > nobody may make or sell any coffee strong enough to wake up a > government bureaucrat... The heathen custom of percolating coffee leads to mental degeneracy and sexual perversion. When the water passing through the grinds is not boiling, many essential chemicals remain in the grinds. The only civilized way to make coffee is to boil the grinds in the water for a few minutes. Try it, you'll discover that it tastes completely differently from the percolated swill. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 23 15:14:50 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:14:50 +0800 Subject: Physical Meet: Saturday Feb. 14? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801232308.RAA16685@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > > I would like to set the Feb. physical meeting for Saturday the 14th at the > > normal 6-7pm time. > > > > An alternate would be the following 21'st. > > > > Any major objections to the 14th? Suggestions on location? > > Let's shoot for the 21st. My wife will kill me if I try to leave > the house on the 14th. :-) Any other suggestions? I personaly don't care so unless somebody else speaks up before Sunday I'll go ahead and set it for the 21st and begin to make the announcements on the cypherpunks mailing list. Who wants to make the usenet round? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jwadams at golive.com Fri Jan 23 15:44:13 1998 From: jwadams at golive.com (John W. Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:44:13 +0800 Subject: GoLive CyberStudio2 Message-ID: <199801232335.PAA23942@rigel.cyberpass.net> Hello Mac User, Our records indicate that you downloaded a free 30-day trial of GoLive CyberStudio 2 from our web site. Your 30-day trial evaluation period has expired. Purchasing the full copy of the software now will allow you to continue working without losing any of your pages or sites. I can also include the new "CyberStudio 2" book by Peach Pit Press (an $18.95 value) for free. I'll need for you to contact me within 30 days so that I may facilitate your purchase. Since your download, we are proud to announce that GLCS2 won the prestigious Eddy Award for Best Web Development Software at MacWorld this month, so you can rest assured that you are getting the best possible solution for your web development and management. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. John W. Adams, Direct Sales GoLive Systems, Inc. 800-554-6638, opt 1 or 512-464-8545 direct mailto:jwadams at golive.com http://www.golive.com From declan at well.com Fri Jan 23 15:44:47 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:44:47 +0800 Subject: Internal Affairs: Looking for Lewinsky, from Netly News (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Internal Affairs: Looking for Lewinsky, from Netly News ******* http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1708,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 23, 1998 Internal Affairs: Looking for Lewinsky by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) Call it the year the Internet brought down a president. If President Clinton just can't shake this week's accusation of peripatetic philandering, let's give the Net some credit. First, we must acknowledge Matt Drudge, the online rumormonger who finally exacted his revenge on Clinton for supporting Blumenthal v. Drudge, a lawsuit with a million-dollar price tag. When Newsweek spiked an expos of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, it was Drudge who spread the rumor across the Net and throughout the media on Saturday, January 17. [...] Of course, until yesterday, Clinton's impeachment seemed about as far-fetched a possibility as our unearthing one of Lewinsky's close friends on Usenet -- which is exactly what The Netly News was dispatched to do. Every time there's a major news event, our intrepid Internet team is called forth to scour DejaNews, troll IRC and mass-mail anyone who might possibly divulge information on the given subject. The Lewinsky search was less revealing than most. We found the former White House intern's annual salary; her home address in Portland, Ore.; the amount she and her mother donated to Democratic campaigns ($1,550 in 1996). Someone informed us, in all seriousness, that Lewinsky once gave him a goldfish. We also had people ask us if we'd pay them for information. (Fat chance.) [...] From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 16:51:34 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:51:34 +0800 Subject: IETF S/MIME to follow PGP in building in GAK? Message-ID: <199801240031.AAA00863@server.eternity.org> You may recall the furor generated by PGP Inc adding a GAK enabling feature thus making it easier for governments to impose GAK on the deployed PGP 5.x user base. PGP Inc called this feature CMR (Corporate Message Recovery) or ARR (Additional Recipient Request). Over on IETF S/MIME, right now there is a thread which looks set to add an almost identifical feature to S/MIME (spooky how similar the feature is even). Most of the regular contributors on S/MIME work for GAK sell out companies anyway, so I figure this is pretty much a done deal. (S/MIME already has another form of GAK also, in that the X.509 key directory specs allow the directory to optionally keep _private_ keys also). I think the ARR mechanism is actually more dangerous than keeping locally escrowed copies of keys in PGP because of the web of trust model. (See: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/cdr/ for my thoughts on this). In the S/MIME world where there is a more hierarchical approach to Certification, you can expect government run CAs which demand a copy of your private key also. (eg. the UK DTI document on crypto licensing proposals was talking about this method). For S/MIME, S/MIME style ARR seems fairly balanced in lethality to CAs which keep private keys. I wonder if Phil Zimmermann feels proud of himself now that S/MIME looks like it will adopt his CAK/GAKware design. You might be amused at this introductory remark from the proposer on S/MIME IETF: : As a side note, this is not a radically new concept as something very : similar has already been proposed and implemented by PGP. : : Flames welcome. The guy's proposal below. It was well received too. Someone else proposed adding it in as a core MUST S/MIME requirement to handle these additional recipient requests. (You can follow the thread on the hypertext archive at www.imc.org (look for IETF S/MIME mailing list, or by subscribing to ietf-smime at imc.org). Adam ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:07:01 -0700 From: "Steve Russell" Subject: Corporate Key mechanism To: A new and somewhat radical thread.... Because I believe the following to be true: - Requiring key recovery is a bad thing (complexity, cost, implementation, etc.) - Companies do have a need to access mail encrypted to or encrypted by their employees (lost keys, legal investigations, etc) - We are all working on methods of satisfying US export requirements so that we can export a cryptographically useful product - The is a middle step between full key recovery and no hope of recovery which involves encrypting messages to a 'corporate key' in addition to a individual public key when sending a message. Basically, what is involved is changing the user certificate format to designate a field for a second certificate which represents the corporate public key appropriate for that user. An application intending to encrypt mail to that user MUST then encrypt the message to both the user key and the corporate key. By no means am I implying that everyone that implements S/MIME leave a back door into all of their messages. However, since most companies that are implementing secure messaging are setting up their own CA (Entrust, OnSite, Netscape, etc.) and they have control over what fields are populated and with what information, they are able to choose whether or not they need visibility into their own data. As a side note, this is not a radically new concept as something very similar has already been proposed and implemented by PGP. Flames welcome. Steve From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 17:22:51 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:22:51 +0800 Subject: cryptix java AES effort Message-ID: <199801240059.AAA00241@server.eternity.org> (AES is the Advanced Encryption Standard, a NIST standardisation process ongoing at present to select a replacement encryption algorithm for DES. Algorithm submissions were requested by NIST from any interested parties.) AES requires submitters to include reference java implementations. Systemics provides a BSD licensed (free for commercial and non-commercial use) java crypto library called cryptix. Cryptix has an IJCE interface which means that it integrates with other java crypto apps as a standard java cryptographic service class. http://www.systemics.com Systemics are interested to add AES candidate algorithms to cryptix, and are offering to provide the java implementation to any AES algorithm submitters, see: http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_crypt.html Systemics also are interested in encouraging programmers to join in this effort: http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_prog.html Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 I wrote: > (You can follow the thread on the hypertext archive at www.imc.org > (look for IETF S/MIME mailing list, or by subscribing to > ietf-smime at imc.org). The discussions on S/MIME CAK/GAK implementations start with: http://www.imc.org/ietf-smime/mail-archive/1038.html Adam From kent at songbird.com Fri Jan 23 17:48:08 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:48:08 +0800 Subject: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980123174224.64030@songbird.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 02:59:53PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: > >Forwarded message: > > >> POLL SHOWS BILL GATES' POPULARITY GROWING > >> > >> Gates poll graphic January 23, 1998 > >> Web posted at: 1:58 p.m. EST (1858 GMT) > >> > >> (CNN) -- The popularity of Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates among > >> Americans is growing, according to a CNN/Time magazine poll, and > >> almost half of the computer users interviewed favor having the > >> company become the dominant provider of Internet services. > > And the sheeple bindly march on. :( Bill -- you *believed* this? :-) -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From mail at vipul.net Fri Jan 23 17:50:16 1998 From: mail at vipul.net (Vipul Ved Prakash) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:50:16 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <199801231938.OAA19072@homeport.org> Message-ID: <199801240659.GAA03702@fountainhead.net> Adam Shostack wrote: > I'm not sure that this is the message they're sending at all. > They're trying to work the Linux/GNU model of getting a horde of > volunteer programmers to improve their product, and base other > products on it, because of the ease of integration. I don't know that > security was even on their minds. It doesn't matter. In fact this is the smartest thing they could have done. Given their recent financial predicament and the level of competence and cluefulness they have shown in the past, I am amazed they didn't let inertia and their investment in the anti-civilization (and pointy haired managers) hold them back. I feel that Microsoft's extremely determined attempts to corner the browser market has forced them to stop evading reality for a while. They seem to have realized that the best model for their business is Caldera/Redhat/Stronghold model. To add value to already existing free software that adheres to an open standard. Releasing Netscape 5 code will effectively ensure them a standard to capitalize on. Best, Vipul Links: x. http://www.openspace.org/ has setup up a forum for developing free Netscape. x. http://slashdot.org/slashdot.cgi?mode=article&artnum=425 http://www.slashdot.org/slashdot.cgi?mode=article&artnum=499 this guy first suggested that netscape should go GPL (on january 12) and predicted they'll do it right away. -- Powell lingered. "How's Earth?" It was a conventional enough question and Muller gave the conventional answer, "Still spinning." -- "Reason", Asimov. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail at vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 23 18:34:36 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:34:36 +0800 Subject: Sucking Sound... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser> Message-ID: At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote: >Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the >White House lately? If that was an intentional pun, a good one. But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however tawdry it was.) It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us. (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one picked up on it.) Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From pkmrght193 at aol.com Sat Jan 24 11:46:44 1998 From: pkmrght193 at aol.com (pkmrght193 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:46:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: SUPER BOWL XXXII PICK Message-ID: <>

    Hello SPORTS FANS!!!!  Wouldn't it feel really great to know exactly
who was going to win Sunday's SUPER BOWL match-up between the
Green Bay Packers and the Denver Broncos?  If you are an avid 
sports fan like myself, then I know you will enjoy this ad.  We are 
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for picking sports games.  We decide our picks by using a consensus 
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P.S.   After you take the bank on Super Bowl Sunday, give us a call
         after 4:00 P.M EST on Monday for TWO winning basketball
         picks.

                                         

 









From pkmrght193 at aol.com  Sat Jan 24 11:46:44 1998
From: pkmrght193 at aol.com (pkmrght193 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:46:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SUPER BOWL XXXII PICK
Message-ID: <>



    Hello SPORTS FANS!!!!  Wouldn't it feel really great to know exactly
who was going to win Sunday's SUPER BOWL match-up between the
Green Bay Packers and the Denver Broncos?  If you are an avid 
sports fan like myself, then I know you will enjoy this ad.  We are 
Prodigious Picks and Associates and we have created the best system
for picking sports games.  We decide our picks by using a consensus 
analysis system that takes the picks of SEVEN OF THE BEST 
HANDICAPPERS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!  If you are one of the hundreds
of callers that has given us a call in the past few weeks, we know that
we have already proven ourselves to YOU.  If you have not had a chance
to give us a call yet, we want to inform you that we went 33-16 by the line
in the past three weeks.  This includes going 7-2-1 in the NFL PLAYOFFS.
Don't lose your money trying to pick the game yourself or by even calling 
some other handicapper whose price per call is much more expensive
than ours.  Let us do the work and you get the MONEY!  So give us a call
this weekend and WE WILL DELIVER THE WINNING PICK FOR
SUPER BOWL XXXII!!!  
                                                  
                                                    1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you take the bank on Super Bowl Sunday, give us a call
         after 4:00 P.M EST on Monday for TWO winning basketball
         picks.

                                         

 









From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Fri Jan 23 20:25:27 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:25:27 +0800
Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?
Message-ID: <199801240418.FAA17881@basement.replay.com>



Tim May wrote:

>Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely deployed.
>(If they're available, I haven't about them.) Something to remove the
>annoying banners, or stop them from wasting valuable time loading in the
>first place.

Tim, I'm surprised. WebFree for the Macintosh does this very thing. It
matches on URL substrings and simply removes these things wholesale from
your browser window. No broken image boxes, nothing. It also kills cookies
and stops animated GIFs from leaking through, if you want to nuke either of
those things.

The URL is: http://www.falken.net/webfree/

Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server
kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user
agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix variants.
One could also use it to get around a firewall configured to reject 
non-standard browsers, but That Would Be Wrong, as Nixon once said. It lets
you specify which sites or substrings to look for, and which ones you trust.
It also does proxy chaining.

Ratbert
ratbert at nym dot alias dot net







From dm0 at avana.net  Fri Jan 23 20:59:53 1998
From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:59:53 +0800
Subject: Jay Leno on Clinton 1/23/98
Message-ID: <34C974E1.70B42BD8@avana.net>



Tonight in Leno's monologue they did a piece on the eriee
similarities between Nixon and Clinton:

  NIXON:  Was known for the campaign slogan "Nixon's the One!"
CLINTON:  Known by the phrase "That's the Guy!"

  NIXON:  Was known for his "widows peak"
CLINTON:  Known to make widows peak

  NIXON:  Took on Ho Chi Minh
CLINTON:  Took on Ho

  NIXON:  Was familiar with G. Gordon Liddy
CLINTON:  Familiar with the G-spot

  NIXON:  Wanted "Peace with Honor"
CLINTON:  Wanted "Piece while on her"


--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad






From Gortega at ix.netcom.com  Sat Jan 24 14:10:50 1998
From: Gortega at ix.netcom.com (Gortega at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: .
Message-ID: <17705699_91749677>








From attila at hun.org  Fri Jan 23 22:41:34 1998
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:41:34 +0800
Subject: 2 sides to the poll on DOJ v. M$
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123145928.01266c90@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <19980124.060014.attila@hun.org>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    let's look at the tail of the Reuters newsclip on M$
    settling the immediate contempt action --a settlement
    most of the outside experts say gives the government
    an advantage in the final determination.  

    what I dont like is that M$ scored a huge PR victory
    by caving in to the government --it had no choice, 
    but many of the fence sitters are now going to state
    that M$ is "reforming" --which is pure bullshit; they
    are playing the Lenin-Stalin game of dealmaking so they
    can regroup and work around it, then blatantly violate
    it after they have sufficient strength.  I like the
    comment Maureen quoted the 21st from one attorney who
    liked M$ to smallpox --"...stamp it out, ...or it will
    come back."

But a poll issued Friday cast doubt on how far the public
backs the government's scrutiny of Microsoft.

A Time/CNN survey of 1,020 adults Jan.  14-15 found 46
percent thought Microsoft's dominant role in the software
industry was good for consumers against 30 percent who
thought it was bad.

    I am surprised they determined only 46% thought it was
    good as it has made for cheap, almost good enough, and
    ubiquitous software --if you dont mind settling for
    mediocrity with most innovations products M$ has either
    preempted or stolen.

    what is really surprising is that there really were 30%
    who acknowledged the danger of M$ as a monopoly! 

    people vote for government with their wallets --voting
    for "cheaper" commerce-- even more so. Americans are 
    not known for their discriminating choice of products
    based on quality and function --they almost always 
    settle for "almost good enough" and cheap. secondly, 
    they are truly "sheeple" and must have what everybody
    else has which is a market driven by positive feedback 
    --in analog amplifiers, that often causes smokeouts--
    and controlled are commonly referred to as oscillators.

The same poll found 51 percent thought the government should
refrain from steps to reduce Microsoft's advantage over
other software companies vs. 32 percent who thought the
government should intervene.

    this one is also very telling. the 51% is peanuts 
    against the fact that 30% actually believe the government
    should intervene! --that is even more impressive 
    considering that most Americans want government to do
    less and trust federal agencies even less.

    for something as complicated as antitrust actions, I 
    find the 32% proactive intervention percentage rather
    warm and fuzzy in that there is a real understanding 
    that M$ is a malignant cancer, and needs to be treated 
    as such.

    M$ made a serious mistake treating the judge, the DOJ,
    and the American people with the contempt they have 
    always treated their competitors. gone are the home 
    grown 'aw shucks' appreciation of the American success
    story --Gate$ and crew have been shown to be the selfish
    4 year old brats we in the industry have all learned to
    "love"....

    the only danger of this recent poll is that M$ spin 
    doctors will show it as a victory --it's not. 30+%
    that want to curtail your power is not a victory --the
    percentage changed from a few hundred or a thousand of
    in the industry who feel Gate$ has long since passed 
    the acceptable level of control to greater than 30% of
    the population-- _that_ is significant.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNMmLfbR8UA6T6u61AQH4HQH/TIjc9GJhrJdcPvXtQ1A9CNVRk9zQdCRH
YHR5X0OGgEWN+U5cLnMRvEGbhoLiKDRHTklsE7vKmsGSBZc7MwAd0A==
=uPBW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----







From kent at songbird.com  Sat Jan 24 00:03:21 1998
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:03:21 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser>
Message-ID: <19980123235636.36170@songbird.com>



On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 06:30:27PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote:
> 
> >Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the
> >White House lately?
> 
> If that was an intentional pun, a good one.
> 
> But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by
> the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the
> criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting
> on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning
> perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however
> tawdry it was.)
> 
> It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to
> Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us.
> 
> (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one
> picked up on it.)
> 
> Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better
> than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this
> whole affairs takes several more months to unwind.

Tim has missed the most important part of this whole episode: the fact
that Linda Tripp was wearing a wire, and apparently working for the
FBI.  Think for a moment about the position this puts what's his name 
in -- you know, the guy who's name begins with an "F", who works for 
Janet Reno...

In fact I am amazed that cp's in general haven't picked up on the
potential significance of this.  Think back to just a few short weeks
ago, when Freeh and Reno had their little spat...

What do you think about congressional resistance to wiretaps, in 
light of current events?

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html






From ryan at michonline.com  Sat Jan 24 00:08:51 1998
From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:08:51 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




> (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one
> picked up on it.)

I'd wager we all saw  it, and couldn't think of anythign clever to say.  

Funny thing about all this:  In a recent Newsweek a former Congressman who
just got out of jail was talking about how he was disgusted byt the
current Congress.  *ALL* they do is posture, they don't even bother going
through the motions of passing legislation.   The Congress of the 80s at
least *did* something.  (Okay, so it wasn't very useful, or good, but a
Congress that does nothign can't be changed with any effect, one that
actually gets things done once in a while, if persuaded to change a
little, might be a benefit...)

If anyone cares, I might still have that one, I can look up who it was...

> 
> Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better
> than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this
> whole affairs takes several more months to unwind.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> 
> 
> The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 


Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123235513.007ceba0@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 08:02 AM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>Yes, I was thinking of FEAL. And even FEAL was not "snake oil," in that the
>inventors of it were not trying to use deception to promote it. (I consider
>this to be part of what "snake oil" is.)

When FEAL was written, it wasn't snake oil.  If anybody tries to use it
today, it _is_ snake oil, because it and a number of variants on it
are well known to be broken.  (Too bad, because it was made to be 
small and light and run on wimpy processors, but there are now other
small fast cyphers around.)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From alan at clueserver.org  Sat Jan 24 00:34:49 1998
From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:34:49 +0800
Subject: Misty???
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980123235513.007ceba0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 



On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:

> At 08:02 AM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
> >Yes, I was thinking of FEAL. And even FEAL was not "snake oil," in that the
> >inventors of it were not trying to use deception to promote it. (I consider
> >this to be part of what "snake oil" is.)
> 
> When FEAL was written, it wasn't snake oil.  If anybody tries to use it
> today, it _is_ snake oil, because it and a number of variants on it
> are well known to be broken.  

Then maybe we should refer to FEAL as "Lemon Oil"? ]:>

alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.






From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sat Jan 24 00:38:10 1998
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:38:10 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980124003505.008a8c70@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 06:30 PM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by
>the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the
>criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting
>on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning
>perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however
>tawdry it was.)

I was talking to Hugh yesterday, and he asked if I'd heard the big news
- no, not Clinton's sex scandal, the important news, about the
Netscape browser source code being freed :-)
(This was before the news on the Unabomber confession broke.)

>(Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one
>picked up on it.)

If the Democrats think Clinton's going down anyway, they're probably
better off having him resign now and give Gore a couple years in office,
since he'll probably be re-elected if the economy stays strong (probable)
and if the Republicans don't come up with a useful candidate (probable);
if he has to be Vice-Clinton for two more years, he's got minimal chance
of election even if the Republicans come out with another bozo,
because Gore will be more tainted and still just waterboy.

>Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better
>than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this
>whole affairs takes several more months to unwind.

Yeah - especially since President Gore would have to start off by
Doing Something to get some positive momentum, and it would probably
be doing something bad to the Internet.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639






From majordomo at bulkemailserver.com  Sat Jan 24 16:55:11 1998
From: majordomo at bulkemailserver.com (majordomo at bulkemailserver.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:55:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Do you take credit cards ?
Message-ID: <199801242343.SAA05330@ix.gen.com>


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From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Jan 24 01:19:53 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:19:53 +0800
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801240913.KAA18772@basement.replay.com>



Tim May  writes:

> But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being
> ignored by the Cypherpunks...

I've been too amused by the proceedings to comment on it.

The more important silence is about the instant sentencing of the
Unabomber compared to Jim Bell's sentencing.  What _is_ happening with
Jim?

> It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to
> Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us.

> (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one
> picked up on it.)

I saw that.  There are rumors floating about that they have the goods
on Gore too, his hands are certainly as dirty as Slick Willie's.  I'd
like to see both of those rat bastards disgraced.  After all the
vitriol Klinton & Algore have thrown at the '80s and Republicans
their Karma demands they be succeeded by Newt Gengrich (and live to
see it).


> Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better
> than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this
> whole affairs takes several more months to unwind.

Or several years, or whatever ... :-)  I definitely agree.






From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com  Sat Jan 24 01:54:49 1998
From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:54:49 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980124012706.006c5264@popd.netcruiser>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 06:30 PM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote:
>
>>Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the
>>White House lately?
>
>If that was an intentional pun, a good one.

It just goes to show Ross Perot was half right ;)  It wasn't coming from
Mexico because of NAFTA; it was coming (heheh he said coming, Beavis!) from
Clinton's bimbos in action!  Maybe he could sell the videotapes, and apply
the proceeds to reducing the deficit...X-rated stuff is a growth industry
lately.

>But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by
>the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the
>criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting
>on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning
>perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however
>tawdry it was.)

Oddly similar to Watergate--the break-in was not a big deal, but the cover
up was.

>Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better
>than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this
>whole affairs takes several more months to unwind.

I'd like to see the Asian money connection established sufficiently well
that Boinker and the Tree-man get hauled off in handcuffs together. 
Hmmm...Boinker And The Tree-Man...sounds like one of those sucky late-'60s
folk rock groups...or else a really bad Saturday morning catroon...ummm
cartoon.  It's late and my rationality module keeps throwing this really
odd GPF...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5

iQA/AwUBNMmz6MJF0kXqpw3MEQLdsQCfaZhvrJSacH2MrT7lyAhCFhtfilIAn3ub
2xUzK8M6v/cOk8w+FTy4D9ke
=HEAN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sat Jan 24 03:23:02 1998
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:23:02 +0800
Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy
Message-ID: <88564079931716@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>




As part of my recent effort to prepare a useful home page after 2 years of 
having instead a mini text adventure, I've finally got around to finishing off 
the web page containing the recent history of, and current state of, New 
Zealands crypto export policy as decided by several intelligence agencies and 
a supporting cast of bungling bureaucrats.  This policy has resulted in New 
Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export 
controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to 
software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted 
from export.  It's not even possible for a university to publish academic 
research without prior permission from a government agency, and the 
requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they 
can never be fulfilled.  You can find the information on:
 
  http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/
 
The page also contains links to a sizeable collection of never-before- 
published documents including correspondence with relevant government 
agencies, and media reports on the situation.
 
If you're going to send me mail about this, please note that I'll be at Usenix 
in San Antonio for the next week, so it'll take awhile for me to reply.  My 
PGP key's at the bottom of my home page if you need it.
 
Peter.






From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Jan 24 04:51:31 1998
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:51:31 +0800
Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


From: RPK New Zealand Ltd 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:24:28
Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998

You have received this message because at some time during the past two
years you have requested to be put on the RPK New Zealand Ltd. company
mailing list.  (We're the Fast Public Key Encryption company).  If you wish
to be removed from the list, please forward this message to
remove at rpkusa.com

--------------------------------

RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. has
released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security application for
use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3).  The product offers the
strongest encryption available anywhere in the world.  Since it was built
outside the United States, it is also available all over the world with
strong encryption.  RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type
to setup and use which makes it quite unique.

You can learn more about this product by reading the press release below or
by visiting the web site at www.InvisiMail.com.  We are also offering FREE
downloads of the RPK InvisiMail Intro product.  Please give it a try and
pass it along to anyone you like.

--------------------------------

For Immediate Release

Contact:	Sal Cataldi, Cataldi PR +1 212.941.9464, scataldi at earthlink.net,
www.InvisiMail.com

RPK InvisiMail(tm), secure Internet e-mail with globally available strong
encryption for Microsoft, Netscape platforms

SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 12, 1998 - InvisiMail Ltd (www.InvisiMail.com)
announced today immediate worldwide availability of RPK(tm) InvisiMail(tm),
a standards-based e-mail security add-in for Microsoft, Netscape and other
POP3/SMTP Internet e-mail clients and gateway servers.  Tested and
certified by the International Computer Security Association
(www.ncsa.com), RPK InvisiMail automatically and transparently encrypts
e-mail messages and attachments, authenticates the sender and verifies the
contents of each message have not been changed in transit.

RPK InvisiMail is globally available with high strength encryption.
InvisiMail and the underlying RPK encryption algorithm were developed
outside the United States.  Therefore, InvisiMail is not subject to
restrictive U.S. export policies.  RPK InvisiMail is as easy to set up and
use as anti-virus software, and just as important.

While Microsoft and Netscape battle each other with incompatible and
difficult to use security offerings, InvisiMail seamlessly integrates with
ALL popular POP3/SMTP e-mail products including Netscape, Microsoft,
Eudora, Pegasus, Calypso -- more than any other solution available today --
making it the preferred e-mail security product for multi-platform use,
worldwide.

All InvisiMail users can send the FREE InvisiMail Intro version to anyone
worldwide, providing compatibility without requiring others to purchase
anything, making InvisiMail unique among
e-mail security offerings.

"Most people don't realize that their e-mail can be forged, altered or read
by anyone, any time, without any evidence," said Jack Oswald, President and
CEO of RPK Ltd.  "Without products like RPK InvisiMail, communications on
the Internet are untrustworthy."

InvisiMail uses the RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine, the
strongest cryptography available worldwide today.  RPK is dramatically
faster than the well-known RSA algorithm, yet just as secure.  RPK has been
analyzed by world class cryptographers who have issued reports on the
security and integrity of the technology.

"InvisiMail is the easiest, fastest, most transparent e-mail security
product I have seen," said Kevin Shannon, President of net*Gain, a
specialist in launching Internet companies. "This is the product we've all
been waiting for."

As part of its official launch, InvisiMail Professional is available FREE
to all New Zealand residents for ninety days.

RPK InvisiMail is available in two desktop versions: Intro (FREE) and
Professional (introductory price $29.95).  RPK InvisiMail Enterprise
Gateway Server will be available Q2 1998.  InvisiMail can be downloaded
from: www.InvisiMail.com.

All trademarks and registered trademarks are those of their respective
companies.

***

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 







From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Sat Jan 24 07:40:21 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:40:21 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services
Message-ID: <199801241536.JAA04018@manifold.algebra.com>



Hi,


I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not
to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to
the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home
shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to
destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively?

Thank you

igor






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 24 07:46:53 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:46:53 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801241540.JAA19472@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi Igor,

Forwarded message:

> Subject: Document destruction services
> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:36:54 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not
> to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to
> the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home
> shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to
> destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively?

Ask one of your friends with a fireplace to help out. Just remember to stire
the ashes when done. Otherwise it's possible using IR sensing to read the
ink on larger pieces of the paper. A bar-b-q pit is also a very good means.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 24 08:07:36 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:07:36 +0800
Subject: FCC sets new access rates - ISP's escape inter-state tariff - Congestion argument denied
Message-ID: <199801241559.JAA19539@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.fcc.gov/ccb/access/fcc97158.html

>    Federal Communications Commission
>    navigation bar with links to FCC Homepage, Search, Commissioners,
>    Bureaus/Offices, and Finding Information
>    
>    HTML Format
>    
>    
>    FCC 97-158
>    
>    First Report & Order In the Matter of
>    Access Charge Reform
>    Price Cap Performance Review for Local Exchange Carriers
>    Transport Rate Structure and Pricing
>    Usage of the Public Switched Network by Information Service and
>    Internet Access Providers 
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    Text Version | WordPerfect Version | Acrobat Version | News Release |
>    Errata
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    Table of Contents
>    links to HTML files
>    
>    These files do not contain the changes specified in the 6/4/97 Errata!
>    
>    
>    TITLE PAGE
>           
>    I. Introduction 1
>           A. Background 17
>           
>         
>                 1. The Existing Rate System 17
>                 2. Implicit Subsidies in the Existing System 28
>                 3. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 32
>                 
>    
>           B. Access Charge Reform 35
>           
>         
>                 1. Rationalizing the Rate Structure 36
>                 2. Baseline Rate Level Reductions 42
>                 
>    
>           
>    II. Summary of Rate Structure Changes and Transitions 53
>           A. Common Line Rate Structure Changes 54
>           B. Other Rate Structure Changes 61
>           
>    III. Rate Structure Modifications 67
>           A. Common Line 67
>           
>         
>                 1. Overview 67
>                 2. Subscriber Line Charge 72
>                 3. Carrier Common Line Charge 88
>                 4. Common Line PCI Formula 106
>                 5. Assessment of SLCs and PICCs on Derived Channels 111
>                 
>    
>           B. Local Switching 123
>           
>         
>                 1. Non-Traffic Sensitive Charges 123
>                 2. Traffic Sensitive Charges 136
>                 
>    
>           C. Transport 150
>           
>         
>                 1. Entrance Facilities and Direct-Trunked Transport 152
>                 2. Tandem-Switched Transport 158
>                 
>    
>           D. Transport Interconnection Charge (TIC) 210
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 210
>                 2. Discussion 212
>                 
>    
>           E. SS7 Signalling 244
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 244
>                 2. Discussion 252
>                 
>    
>           F. Impact of New Technologies 256
>           
>    IV. Baseline Rate Levels 258
>           A. Primary Reliance on a Market-Based Approach With A
>           Prescriptive Backdrop and the Adoption of Several Initial
>           Prescriptive Measures 258
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 258
>                 2. Discussion 262
>                 
>    
>           B. Prescriptive Approaches 285
>           
>         
>                 1. Prescription of a New X-Factor 285
>                 2. Rejection of Certain Prescriptive Approaches 287
>                 
>    
>           C. Equal Access Costs 299
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 299
>                 2. Discussion 302
>                 
>    
>           D. Correction of Improper Cost Allocations 315
>           
>         
>                 1. Marketing Expenses 315
>                 2. General Support Facilities 326
>                 
>    
>           
>    V. Access Reform For Incumbent Rate-of-Return Local Exchange Carriers
>           329
>           A. Background 329
>           B. Discussion 330
>           
>    VI. Other Issues 336
>           A. Applicability of Part 69 to Unbundled Elements 336
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 336
>                 2. Discussion 337
>                 
>    
>           B. Treatment of Interstate Information Services 341
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 341
>                 2. Discussion 344
>                 
>    
>           C. Terminating Access 349
>           
>         
>                 1. Price Cap Incumbent LECs 350
>                 2. Non-Incumbent LECs 358
>                 3. "Open End" Services 365
>                 
>    
>           D. Universal Service-Related Part 69 Changes 367
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 368
>                 2. Discussion 372
>                 
>    
>           E. Part 69 Allocation Rules 388
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 388
>                 2. Discussion 389
>                 
>    
>           F. Other Proposed Part 69 Changes 390
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 390
>                 2. Discussion 391
>                 
>    
>           
>    VII. Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 397
>           A. PICCs for Special Access Lines 397
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 398
>                 2. Proposal 403
>                 
>    
>           B. General Support Facilities Costs 407
>           
>         
>                 1. Background 408
>                 2. Proposal 412
>                 
>    
>           
>    VIII. Final Regulatory Flexibility Analysis 419
>           
>    IX. Procedural Issues 441
>           
>    X. Ordering Clauses 459
>           
>    Appendix A List of Commenters
>           
>    Appendix B Comment Summary
>           
>    Appendix C Final Rules
>           
>    STATEMENTS
>           Commissioner Quello
>           Commissioner Ness
>           Commissioner Chong
>           
>           
>           
>           
>           View/Download single-file HTML version of Entire Report
>           
>           
>           
>           
>      Pagination of the documents contained in these files may not match
>      that of the Official Paper Version when viewed or printed using your
>      system.
>      
>    
>           
>           navigation bar with links to FCC Homepage, Search,
>           Commissioners, Bureaus/Offices, and Finding Information
>           
>           
>           last updated 6/9/97
> 


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 24 08:38:18 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:38:18 +0800
Subject: Executing Kaczynski
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 1:13 AM -0800 1/24/98, Anonymous wrote:

>The more important silence is about the instant sentencing of the
>Unabomber compared to Jim Bell's sentencing.  What _is_ happening with
>Jim?

Because it was so utterly obvious that Kaczynski _was_ the Unabomber,
through diaries, physical evidence, his plea bargaining discussions, and
confessions in his other writings, the outcome was a foregone conclusion.
(I thought all the foofaw about whether Kaczynski was the Unabomber or not
was fatuous nonsense...in my world, when you find bomb materials in a home,
with no evidence they were planted there by the FBI or BATF, and you find
diaries and papers and bomb plans, and travel documents match the dates in
question, and on and on, then it is impossible with a straight face to talk
about the issue of guilt still be up in the air....I guess this is why I'll
never be a juror.)

I generally favor having very, very few things made criminal, but having
very, very fast and efficient trials. E.g., a court date set for several
weeks after an arrest, a week-long trial, and execution (if decided upon) a
few weeks later. So, Kaczynski, O.J., the Menendez brothers, and their ilk
would have gotten fast trials and quick trips to the wall.

(For those who think this is inconsistent with anarchist or crypto
anarchist views, reread the sections of "The Diamond Age" where the mugger
was dispatched off the end of the pier. Polycentric law doesn't mean
charade trials which last for a year, with appeals and delays lasting
another 10 years.)

BTW, Kaczynski is apparently no crazier that any number of Cypherpunks I
have met, including myself. Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected
for a while as being the Unabomber.


>I saw that.  There are rumors floating about that they have the goods
>on Gore too, his hands are certainly as dirty as Slick Willie's.  I'd

Yeah I've read reports that the FBI has surveillance tapes of him taking
bribes ("campaign contributions") from Asian and other donors. With him
implicating the Administration directly. It could well be that this is what
has kept both Louis Freeh and Janet Reno in office: they have the goods on
Clinton and Gore.

I'll say this about Janet Reno: she certainly acted swifty. (Which probably
shows the 20 hours of taped conversations and other evidence is
overwhelming, for Reno to so quickly authorize the attempt to sting the
President.)

Though it was too bad she didn't use Waco tactics and send the tanks in to
send incendiary materials through windows of the White House.

--Tim May




The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 24 08:46:30 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:46:30 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services
In-Reply-To: <199801241536.JAA04018@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 



At 7:36 AM -0800 1/24/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Hi,
>
>
>I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not
>to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to
>the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home
>shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to
>destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively?

Just burn them, either in a fireplace, since it's winter, or in a 55-gallon
drum.

Or in a campfire.

Should go quickly.

I don't understand what the issue is.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From iang at systemics.com  Sat Jan 24 08:51:30 1998
From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:51:30 +0800
Subject: cryptix java AES effort
Message-ID: <34CA1B3D.7D1181D1@systemics.com>



Adam kindly forwarded the AES quest blurbs to interested and/or
interesting groups.  Some slight clarification is required in the detail
of who and what.

Adam said:
> Systemics provides a BSD licensed (free for commercial and
> non-commercial use) java crypto library called cryptix.

A slight modification:   Systemics provided, in the past tense.

It was always the belief of those at Systemics at the time that selling
crypto was extremely hard without contacts into big companies (in which
case, you weren't selling crypto...).  When Cryptix stabilised it was
published as freeware with a BSD-style of license, with the hope that
other people would pick it up and start to work with it.

With the Java library this has happened.  There is now a team of between
4 and 10 people,  depending on how you count them, scattered across the
globe, improving the core Cryptix code.  Over the last year or so, we
codified the notion of the independant group working around the library
as the Cryptix Development Team.  That is now spreading through the
doco.

( There are a few issues such as copyright and the brand name, which are
beyond the scope of   this email.  Whilst Systemics is not entirely
passive in this area, it does not sell Cryptix code, although it might,
and does, sell services such as improving Cryptix code.  Also, those who
work/have worked at Systemics are also part of the team. )



The AES quest is a Cryptix operation.  I.e., Cryptix Development Team,
and not Systemics.  It is a completely unfunded (although sponsorship
would be appreciated) and volunteer effort.  Whilst the NIST people earn
a salary, and most of the cryptographers are employed in this capacity
as well, there is no especial interest in employing programmers here, as
any rational company will simply wait until the winner is announced,
sometime in the next millenium, and then employ an expert at $300 per
hour to tell them all about it.

Rationally or otherwise, we still need programmers to code up the
algorithms and prepare them for submission to NIST.  For many
cryptographers, it is beyond their efficient capabilities to know much
about the downstream discipline, so it makes sense for them to outsource
the work to a team like Cryptix, especially as NIST has loaded up the
submission requirements with 3 separate implementations.

If you're thinking now's the time to branch into Java crypto, read the
blurb and mail us.  The rational part is that if you start now, you
might be earning fat fees in a few years time.

>   http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_crypt.html
>   http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_prog.html

-- 
iang                                      systemics.com

FP: 1189 4417 F202 5DBD  5DF3 4FCD 3685 FDDE on pgp.com






From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Sat Jan 24 09:15:20 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:15:20 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801241709.LAA04622@manifold.algebra.com>



Tim May wrote:
> >I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not
> >to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to
> >the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home
> >shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to
> >destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively?
> 
> Just burn them, either in a fireplace, since it's winter, or in a 55-gallon
> drum.

This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it
in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though.

	- Igor.






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 24 09:24:40 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:24:40 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com>



Hi Igor,

Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Document destruction services
> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:09:36 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)

> This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it
> in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though.

Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a
few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com  Sun Jan 25 01:30:00 1998
From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eureka! Sun Jan 25 '98
Message-ID: <19980125082106.5338.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>


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From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Sat Jan 24 09:48:53 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:48:53 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199801241740.LAA04906@manifold.algebra.com>



Jim Choate wrote:
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Subject: Re: Document destruction services
> > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:09:36 -0600 (CST)
> > From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
> 
> > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it
> > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though.
> 
> Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a
> few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well.

Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will
make it a fire hazard.

Can one buy concentrated sulfuric acid in this country without being
stormed by jackbooted thugs? I think that I'll need a couple of gallons.
To that I'll need about teh same amount of chalk-like material to
neutralize it after the deed is done.

	- Igor.






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Jan 24 09:56:17 1998
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:56:17 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
Message-ID: <199801241749.LAA20147@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd)
> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:40:01 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> > > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it
> > > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though.
> > 
> > Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a
> > few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well.
> 
> Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will
> make it a fire hazard.

I have Igor, works pretty well for some paper additives. If it's a plastic
base then use finger nail polish remover or model cement thinner.

How in the hell can you say with a straight face burning paper with alcohol
is any more a fire hazard then burning paper? You don't burn the paper while
it's in the alcohol bath, but remove it and then burn it. If you try to burn
it in the bath what you get is just like gasoline. The fumes burn not the
alcohol itself so the paper doesn't get nearly hot enough to do any good.

You're making burning paper, additives or not, a lot more complicated than
it is.

If you're that worried about it go down to your hardware store and buy a
hand-held torch. Additives or not that will burn it.

Good luck.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 24 09:58:09 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:58:09 +0800
Subject: Executing Kaczynski
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Tim May  writes:

> BTW, Kaczynski is apparently no crazier that any number of Cypherpunks I
> have met, including myself. Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected
> for a while as being the Unabomber.

Never trust a math PhD.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 24 10:08:45 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:08:45 +0800
Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?
In-Reply-To: <199801240418.FAA17881@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <5DiTJe33w165w@bwalk.dm.com>



nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> Tim, I'm surprised. WebFree for the Macintosh does this very thing. It
> matches on URL substrings and simply removes these things wholesale from
> your browser window. No broken image boxes, nothing. It also kills cookies
> and stops animated GIFs from leaking through, if you want to nuke either of
> those things.

Of course, the person putting up the web page might well argue that you're
violating his copyright in some bizarre way.  The image on your screen with
the ad banners stripped is not what the author intended; especially if you're
helping third parties to strip ads. IANAL... thoughts?

I occasinally use the Altavista search engine in text mode
(www.altavista.digital.com) and it has ads (for amazon.com) right in the
middle of the text, in the same html file as the search results.
I suppose the next logical step in the anti-ad proxy is to edit the dynamically
edit the incoming html and to delete or replaces specified strings; perhaps
a while "intelligent agent" that will filter in only the information you've
requested, keeping out *all* the graphics and other crud.

While I was researching this subject, I came across a web page of some
student at Rutgers. It displays 4 advertizing banners and uses java/javascript
(obnoxious technologies that I disable) to make sure that you've clicked
all 4 (presumably he gets some credit for it); only after the javascript is
convinced that you've clicked the ad banners can you get in. Yeah, right.
But if ad filtering becomes more commonplace in the future, i can imagine
crypto being (mis)used to enforce ad viewing: "You no clicky my sponsor ads,
you no see my content."

I disagree with whoever said that the technology for deleting ads is the
same as the technology for deleting porn. Porn publishers very much don't
want their content to reach minors or anyone who's offended by it, and
mostly coopereate with rating agencies.  Porn isn't generally mixed with
desirable content on the same pages. You can just block the entire page
containing some porn (or, with vancouver-webpages' pics ratings you can
block pages containing "disparaging remarks about the environment", kewl).
Advertisers don't give a damn if their ads are seen by those who aren't
interested in them, and will use technology to make it harder for you to
filter out their ads (or to get to the content without seeing sponsor ads).

When MS IE 3.0 first came out, it supported pics ratings. So I got very
excited and wrote my own little pics ratings server (a better ones is
available from wc3, by the way) to filter out banner ads. Unfortunately,
after I wrote it and started testing t, I doscovered that IE 3.0 only
asks the pics server about eh top-level page; it does NOT ask the pics
server about the urls references in "IMG SRC=" and the like. I guess
the reasoning is that if the top-level page is acceptable, than anything
embedded on it is acceptable, which may be true about porn but not true
about ads.

Overall, this whole advertiser-sponsored model sucks. I'd rather be paying
(electronic cash, of course) for the resources I use.

> The URL is: http://www.falken.net/webfree/
>
> Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server
> kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user
> agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix variants.

It runs udner OS/2 too!! I've got it to work under NT. it may work under
Win95 as well. (Anyone wants an executable for M$ platforms?)

> One could also use it to get around a firewall configured to reject
> non-standard browsers, but That Would Be Wrong, as Nixon once said. It lets
> you specify which sites or substrings to look for, and which ones you trust.

I've been using junkbstr and am pretty happy with it. One disadvantage of
using any proxy server, as opposed to filtering in the browser, is that the
browse is one step removed from the TCP/IP.  E.g. if you try to connect
to a non-existent domain without a proxy, the browser goes to DNS and tells
you that it can't resolve it. Going via a proxy, the proxy server goes to
DNS and sends a page back to the browser sayng it couldn't resolve it, which
isn't as clean.

Although I'm not doing it much, the following worked out fine for me:
junkbuster running on an NT box connected to the internet via ppp; browsers
running on 4 win95 boxes connected to the NT box via ethernet, using
the NT box as the proxy server.

I've exchanged e-mail with someone about the list of URL patterns to block...
I have no time for this myself, but someone ought to put up a web page
tracking what ad urls people block. That would be a nice public service.

> It also does proxy chaining.

It would be nice to have it chain automatically through more than one proxy.

Another nice little feature of junkbstr is it ability to send "wafers" -
your own cookies, which will hopefully confuse whatever tracking software
exists on the server.  I send noise with the following wafers:

NOTICE=Please send no cookies
AnonTrack=X
Apache=X
ASPSESSIONID=X
CFID=X
CFTOKEN=X
DOL=X
DTRACK=X
EGSOFT_ID=X
GeoId=X
GeoStitial=X
group_discount_cookie=T
GTUID=00.00000.0.0.0000.0000
ink=X
JEB2=X
MC1=ID=X
p_uniqid=X
PFUID=X
registered=YES
RMID=X
s_uniqid=X
session-id-time=X
session-id=X
SWID=X
UID=X
Urid=X
userid=X

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 24 10:09:34 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:09:34 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 



At 9:40 AM -0800 1/24/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will
>make it a fire hazard.
>
>Can one buy concentrated sulfuric acid in this country without being
>stormed by jackbooted thugs? I think that I'll need a couple of gallons.
>To that I'll need about teh same amount of chalk-like material to
>neutralize it after the deed is done.
>
>	- Igor.

Come on, Igor, just go out and make a bonfire. I can't see why this is
turning into a major thread, "How Igor can burn a box of documents."

As for buying H2SO4, of _course_ one can buy it! But it's a really dumb way
to destroy some papers.

Just burn them. I don't get what the problem is.

(And don't repeat that they are "hard to burn." Unless they are made of
some other than paper, which is doubtful, they will burn.)

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Sat Jan 24 10:17:16 1998
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:17:16 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199801241810.MAA05227@manifold.algebra.com>



Tim May wrote:
> Come on, Igor, just go out and make a bonfire. I can't see why this is
> turning into a major thread, "How Igor can burn a box of documents."
> 
> As for buying H2SO4, of _course_ one can buy it! But it's a really dumb way
> to destroy some papers.
> 
> Just burn them. I don't get what the problem is.
> 
> (And don't repeat that they are "hard to burn." Unless they are made of
> some other than paper, which is doubtful, they will burn.)

Okay, I will try burning it tonight. Will let you know how it works.

	- Igor.






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 24 10:41:15 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:41:15 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Tim May  writes:
> But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by
> the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the
> criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting
> on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning
> perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however
> tawdry it was.)

The whole Washington crowd is making itself obsolete and irrelevant.

Sure they can cause great problem for an occasional victim, but if you're
lucky enough to stay out fo their way, then it doesn't matter if it's
criminal Clinton or crimnal Gore or some republican criminal.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Jan 24 10:50:57 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:50:57 +0800
Subject: State of the Union Address
In-Reply-To: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199801241845.TAA28206@basement.replay.com>



> 7) What are the following government agencies and what are their function?
>     a) FCC

They censor TV and tax your telephone

>     b) NSA

They read your private e-mail and censor crypto publications

>     c) CIA

They run drugs in South America

>     d) FBI

They wiretap your telephone 

>     e) DEA

They shoot at the drug runners

>     f) BATF

They burn down churches

>     g) NTSB

They blow up airplanes and blame it on 'terrorists'

>     h) DOJ

They harass Microsoft






From ghio at temp0195.myriad.ml.org  Sat Jan 24 10:54:32 1998
From: ghio at temp0195.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:54:32 +0800
Subject: State of the Union Address
In-Reply-To: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199801241849.NAA17756@myriad>



Anonymous wrote:

> [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the
>     students out one at a time and ask them the following questions:
[snip]
> 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal
>     circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities?
> 

The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess.  One student in my high
school chemistry class learned this the hard way.  :)






From declan at pathfinder.com  Sat Jan 24 11:41:26 1998
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:41:26 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser>
Message-ID: 



Tim is right to bring this up. It will have immense impact on the issues
the cypherpunks care about. How can Clinton talk about policy proposals
(crypto, Net-taxes, etc.) when his presidency is spiraling away?

At the daily press briefing yesterday, McCurry tried to talk about some
welfare plan or something. Whatever. Doesn't matter what it was; I don't
remember -- point is you don't see it on the front page of newspapers today.

Note the grand jury is set to meet next Tues, not coincidentally, the day
of the SoUA. A week ago everyone was scrambling to find out what was going
to be in it. Nobody cares anymore. I may sit in on it in the press gallery
just to see the dynamic and hear the catcalls.

Where I work, most of the folks are liberals. Before this week, they lent
scant credence to Paula Jones etc. -- the previous Bimbo Eruptions. This
time is different. This time there is serious talk of impeachment: what the
legal standards are, what the Republicans are doing on the Hill, what this
means for Gore.

This time, it's for real.

-Declan



At 18:30 -0800 1/23/98, Tim May wrote:
>At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote:
>
>>Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the
>>White House lately?
>
>If that was an intentional pun, a good one.
>
>But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by
>the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the
>criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting
>on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning
>perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however
>tawdry it was.)
>
>It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to
>Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us.
>
>(Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one
>picked up on it.)
>
>Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better
>than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this
>whole affairs takes several more months to unwind.
>
>--Tim May
>
>
>
>The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
>"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From gbroiles at netbox.com  Sat Jan 24 11:45:42 1998
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:45:42 +0800
Subject: Executing Kaczynski
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980124114351.0072c3c8@pop.sirius.com>



>The more important silence is about the instant sentencing of the
>Unabomber compared to Jim Bell's sentencing.  What _is_ happening with
>Jim?

Kaczynski was not sentenced immediately - but the crimes he plead guilty to
and the legal posture of the prosecution (e.g., the withdrawn notice of
intent to seek the death penalty) make his sentence a foregone conclusion.
He is still, however, subject to the same pre-sentencing rigamarole that
Jim was; see, for example, this excerpt from the transcripts of the court
proceeding on 1/22 - (at
).

 9THE COURT:  Okay.  There will be a special assessment of
 
10   $650 imposed for your guilty plea pursuant to federal law.
 
11Mr. Kaczynski, do you understand those possible
 
12   consequences of your plea?
 
13THE DEFENDANT:  Yes, Your Honor.
 
14THE COURT:  Under the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, the
 
15   United States Sentencing Commission has issued guidelines for
 
16   judges to follow in determining the sentence in a criminal
 
17   case.  Have you and your attorneys talked about how the
 
18   Sentencing Commission guidelines might apply to your case?
 
19(Discussion off the record between the defendant,
 
20   Ms. Clarke and Mr. Denvir.)
 
21THE DEFENDANT:  Yes, Your Honor.
 
22THE COURT:  Do you understand that the Court will not be
 
23   able to determine the guideline sentence for your case until
 
24   after the pre-sentence report has been completed and your
 
25   attorney and the Government have had an opportunity to object
 
 
 
     SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 -- (916) 446-1347
 
 
 
3810
 
 1   to any of the findings in that report?
 
 2THE DEFENDANT:  Yes, Your Honor.
 
 3THE COURT:  Do you understand that after it has been
 
 4   determined what guideline applies to a case, the judge has the
 
 5   authority in some circumstances to impose a sentence that is
 
 6   more severe or less severe than the sentence called for by the
 
 7   guidelines?
 
 8THE DEFENDANT:  Yes, Your Honor.
 
 9THE COURT:  How about the question of appeal?  Has that
 
10   been waived?
 
11MR. LAPHAM:  Yes, Your Honor.  It's contained at page 7,
 
12   beginning at line 16.
 
13THE COURT:  Okay.  Do you understand that by entering
 
14   into the plea agreement you have entered with the Government,
 
15   you will have waived or given up your right to appeal all or
 
16   any part of your plea of guilty and anything else that occurs
 
17   during this conviction hearing and anything that occurs during
 
18   your sentencing hearing?
 
19THE DEFENDANT:  Yes, Your Honor.
 
20THE COURT:  Do you understand that parole has been
 
21   abolished and that if you plead guilty, you will spend the
 
22   rest of your life in prison and you will never be released or
 
23   paroled?
 
24THE DEFENDANT:  I understand that, Your Honor.
 
25THE COURT:  Do you understand that if the sentence is
 
 
 
     SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 -- (916) 446-1347
 
 
 
3811
 
 1   more severe than you expected, you will still be bound by your
 
 2   plea and will have no right to withdraw it?
 
 3THE DEFENDANT:  I understand it, Your Honor.
 
 4THE COURT:  Do you understand that if I do not accept
 
 5   the sentencing recommendation in your plea agreement, you will
 
 6   still be bound by your plea and will have no right to withdraw
 
 7   it?
 
 8THE DEFENDANT:  I understand that, Your Honor.

[...]
--
Greg Broiles                | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles at netbox.com         | Export jobs, not crypto.
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | http://www.parrhesia.com






From MAILER-DAEMON at toad.com  Sun Jan 25 03:56:16 1998
From: MAILER-DAEMON at toad.com (MAILER-DAEMON at toad.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:56:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Happy New year, Don't Miss Out!
Message-ID: <199801250016.SAA06048@mail.t-1net.com>


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From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Jan 24 12:09:18 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:09:18 +0800
Subject: NoneRe: How to eliminate liability?
In-Reply-To: <19980123052334.20406.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199801242003.VAA07620@basement.replay.com>



John M wrote:

> Well, what about spreading the information out?  Something simple like
> doing a matrix rotation on the scrambled data in 8 byte blocks and
> splice it by bit to split the data up, add ECC (error correction code)
> to it, and spread it to several servers.  This way no one server has all
> the information necessary to recreate the "offending" information and if
> one server gets "hit" (killed), the information can still be regenerated
> from the the information and ECC from the other servers.


This seems like another variation of the 'reverse secret-sharing' schemes,
independently proposed by Jim McCoy, Matt Ghio, and others.

Cooper and Birman give a good theoretical introduction at
http://cs-tr.cs.cornell.edu/TR/CORNELLCS:TR95-1490
although their scheme uses only the simple XOR instead of a full matrix.

Ghio's version is at
http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/dir.archive-97.06.12-97.06.18/0391.html

Neither paper goes heavily into linear algebra, but the scheme can easily
be extended to martices in a finite field, xor being the special case of
mod 2.

The idea's been around for awhile; it'd be nice to see a working
implementation (hint, hint).






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 24 12:09:59 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:09:59 +0800
Subject: "Blowjobs for Jobs"   (Re: Sucking Sound...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



AP, Washington.  President Clinton today announced his "Blowjobs for Jobs"
program, open to young interns, wealthy socialites, and Hollywood
actresses. Clinton denied that this would be either improper behavior,
adultery, or abuse of his official powers. "Hell, it ain't adultery, as
Hillary would rather have me gettin' my oil changed in the Oval Office
bathroom than do it herself, and it ain't abuse, cuz that's why I'm havin'
these young thangs do it instead of it doin' it myself. I ain't no prevert."
...


At 11:35 AM -0800 1/24/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Tim is right to bring this up. It will have immense impact on the issues
>the cypherpunks care about. How can Clinton talk about policy proposals
>(crypto, Net-taxes, etc.) when his presidency is spiraling away?

Well, actually it was Jonathan Wienke who brought it up...I just commented
on it.

I suppose one reason I hadn't attempted to write anything on it is that
there was just SO MUCH STUFF on it. New details are emerging hourly, and we
haven't even heard what's on the 20 hours of tape.

Yes, it's a massively covered story. Is it overcovered? I don't think so.
After all, the election campaign will generate 15 minutes of news coverage
on the network news shows each and every day for almost 10 months, so why
not this level of coverage for what looks to be the end of Clinton's
Presidency? (With all that that implies for further loss of confidence in
the democratic system (yay!).)

There are some who are steadfastly saying "But Clinton has denied these
charges." and "Let's wait until all the details come out."

These folks appear to be either in denial or are just going through the
motions. A vast amount of interesting evidence is accumulating, giving
support to various serious charges. If they are roughly as we are hearing,
modulo some possibly miscommunicated details, then Clinton and others are
in deep shit.

(Perjury, subornation of perjury, witness tampering, obstruction of
justice, and possibly offering Lewinsky and others jobs if they'll lie,
itself a misuse of office.)

I could go on, mentioning all the various news items.

(I get CNN, CNBC, all the usual networks, MSNBC, Fox News, and so on, so
there is a vast amount of news and analysis I hear.)

>At the daily press briefing yesterday, McCurry tried to talk about some
>welfare plan or something. Whatever. Doesn't matter what it was; I don't
>remember -- point is you don't see it on the front page of newspapers today.

I watched this live. McCurry is clearly not being informed on details.
(Which he's probably just as happy about, as elsewise he could be
subpoenaed as a material witness.)

>Note the grand jury is set to meet next Tues, not coincidentally, the day
>of the SoUA. A week ago everyone was scrambling to find out what was going
>to be in it. Nobody cares anymore. I may sit in on it in the press gallery
>just to see the dynamic and hear the catcalls.

It is a feeding frenzy, that much is for sure. But it's having the effect
of triggering more revelations...like the oral sex. phone sex, four other
women, etc. revelations.

(Hey, when those tapes of Clinton having phone sex with Lewinsky come
out...no pun intended...those will be heady times, snicker snicker.)



>Where I work, most of the folks are liberals. Before this week, they lent
>scant credence to Paula Jones etc. -- the previous Bimbo Eruptions. This
>time is different. This time there is serious talk of impeachment: what the
>legal standards are, what the Republicans are doing on the Hill, what this
>means for Gore.
>
>This time, it's for real.
Yep. He's going down.

(No pun intended, as it appears the "servicing" of him in the White House
was strictly in the other direction. Clinton and his "Blowjobs for Jobs"
program.)

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From ghio at temp0197.myriad.ml.org  Sat Jan 24 12:14:57 1998
From: ghio at temp0197.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:14:57 +0800
Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?
In-Reply-To: <199801240418.FAA17881@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199801242006.PAA20035@myriad>



ratbert at nym dot alias dot net wrote:

> Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server
> kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user
> agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix

Yep, I've got it running on www.myriad.ml.org:8000.  It works great - the
only site I've had problems with so far is nytimes (it tries to set a
cookie when you log in as cypherpunks/cypherpunks)






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Jan 24 12:44:08 1998
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:44:08 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199801242038.VAA11594@basement.replay.com>



Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> Can one buy concentrated sulfuric acid in this country without being
> stormed by jackbooted thugs? I think that I'll need a couple of gallons.
> To that I'll need about teh same amount of chalk-like material to
> neutralize it after the deed is done.

I'd use NaOH instead - after you're done, just leave it sit out, and it
will neutralize itself by absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere,
dissolving the ink into little crystal structures which look kinda pretty...






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Jan 24 13:12:47 1998
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 05:12:47 +0800
Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq
Message-ID: 




There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton
wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of
boosting his support...or so he hopes.

If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to
disrupt the war effort.


--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."








From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan 24 13:19:44 1998
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 05:19:44 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980124211026.006f720c@pop.pipeline.com>



No, it's the public and press, not the President, who are into 
denial about the nation's urgent succor. The President's radio
address today was solely on Medicare fraud and abuse.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/html/1998-01-24.html

Lucianne Goldberg's place is down the street and mobbed
around the clock with global bloodsuckers. "There is a god,"
she says, noting fruitless years of the right trying its best to 
suckerpunch the toke-sucker.

Which leads one to wonder who's squeeze gave what to 
Freeh's on Reno's, Starr's on Freeh's, Reno's on Starr's, 
that led them to gang up to divert attention to Bill's. Must have 
been Hillary's, aiming to succotash Al's.







From shamrock at cypherpunks.to  Sat Jan 24 13:57:53 1998
From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 05:57:53 +0800
Subject: Document destruction services
In-Reply-To: <199801241709.LAA04622@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 



There are companies that will shred  an entire box. In your presence. Box
goes  in on one side (cardboard and all), little pieces come out the other
side. Check the yellow pages.


On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> Tim May wrote:
> > >I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not
> > >to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to
> > >the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home
> > >shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to
> > >destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively?
> > 
> > Just burn them, either in a fireplace, since it's winter, or in a 55-gallon
> > drum.
> 
> This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it
> in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though.
> 
> 	- Igor.
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"






From shamrock at cypherpunks.to  Sat Jan 24 14:08:38 1998
From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:08:38 +0800
Subject: Sucking Sound...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> Note the grand jury is set to meet next Tues, not coincidentally, the day
> of the SoUA. A week ago everyone was scrambling to find out what was going
> to be in it. Nobody cares anymore. I may sit in on it in the press gallery
> just to see the dynamic and hear the catcalls.

If there is one day I'd stay away from that building it is during the
SoUA...

:-)
-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"






From sherman at gl.umbc.edu  Sat Jan 24 14:10:48 1998
From: sherman at gl.umbc.edu (Dr. Alan Sherman)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:10:48 +0800
Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak 3:30pm Friday, March 6 at UMBC
Message-ID: 



The wwe page for Barry Smith's talk 
on encryption policy is now up:

http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events
then navigate to /spring98/crypto2.shtml

Interested parties are encouraged to submit
questions via email to sherman at cs.umbc.edu
All questions are posted on the www page.

See this page for details on a $50 www contest for the best
question-gathering www engine.  Contestants who are UMBC students
may apply for CGI priviledges from Jack Suess (UCS), 
jack at cs.umbc.edu    (For professional www programmers,
this contest should be viewed as a request for volunteers
to support UMBC's crypto seminar series.)

Dr. Alan T. Sherman
Associate Professor, Computer Science
sherman at cs.umbc.edu







From schear at lvdi.net  Sat Jan 24 14:12:51 1998
From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:12:51 +0800
Subject: Technology: R.I.P.
Message-ID: 



A great article in today's Wired News Daily, by Virginia Postrel, eloquently explains why D.C. wonks are incapable even considering of any meaningful changes to the role or size of governent.

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/9566.html

--Steve







From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 24 15:54:49 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:54:49 +0800
Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?
In-Reply-To: <199801242006.PAA20035@myriad>
Message-ID: 



ghio at temp0197.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) writes:

> ratbert at nym dot alias dot net wrote:
>
> > Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server
> > kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user
> > agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix
>
> Yep, I've got it running on www.myriad.ml.org:8000.  It works great - the
> only site I've had problems with so far is nytimes (it tries to set a
> cookie when you log in as cypherpunks/cypherpunks)

Junkbusters works very nicely for me. I highly recommend it.

A warning about cookies: no proxy server I know can
stop the server from trying to set the cookie by

a) putting a 
in the header;

b) if you have JavaScript enabled (not a good idea), running something like


You need to tell the browser to turn off the cookies even if you have
an anti-cookie prixy server.


Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your
userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is,
it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time
NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're
a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster config:

wafer PW=0
wafer ID=0

and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in.

Sure junkbuster feeds every wafer to every server, but I don't care.

If you really want to send "cypherpunks", replace both 0s by the character
representation of the hex string a1252e36392c2e2930332bdf. I'm not even
trying to mail it verbatim because I know it would get mangled.


Another site that uses weakly encrypted cookies is DEJANEWS.COM.
For them, I've added these two lines to junkbuster config:

wafer GTUID=03.35644.0.0.1145.00000
wafer DNUID=02717fb0f47d3544510927a15805ab3640987332e4ed6e58e78660744bc8320d260963691c27f34ef4b292e93258a7c7a6ea6b78200c6ade8f378833d6d5

This lets you post as cypherpunks at anonymous.crypto.conspirators.int and if and
when dejanews locks it out, drop me a line and I'll cook up another one. :-)

(Warning: when you post to usenet via dejanews, it adds your ip address
to the header; use a proxy.)

Hang Chris Lewis by his empty scrotum (he has no balls, or we'd hang him
by his balls)!

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Sat Jan 24 15:58:10 1998
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:58:10 +0800
Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Tim May  writes:

> There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton
> wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of
> boosting his support...or so he hopes.
>
> If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to
> disrupt the war effort.

I'm with you, Commander Timmy.  What can I do do get some American aggressors
killed?

Hands off Iraq!

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From anon at squirrel.owl.de  Sat Jan 24 16:47:31 1998
From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:47:31 +0800
Subject: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN]
Message-ID: <5c8b57e84241dd042e19c4e4e4801dca@squirrel>



>Bill -- you *believed* this?  :-)

Why not? The morons can't even write HTML, even *with* the help of some
"HTML authoring kit." If they could we wouldn't be greeted with image maps,
unnamed links, unnamed inline images every 5 words, frames, broken CGI
scripts...

So I, at least, wouldn't find it surprising. The sheeple are blind, naked,
and shit stupid.






From bm194 at scn.org  Sat Jan 24 18:34:37 1998
From: bm194 at scn.org (Gary Harland)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:34:37 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 



rz
**






From guest_mail at online.disney.com  Sat Jan 24 19:27:15 1998
From: guest_mail at online.disney.com (guest_mail at online.disney.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:27:15 +0800
Subject: Thank you for registering at Disney.com
Message-ID: <34ca9bfc3e7d002@piglet-136.disneyblast.com>



Welcome, and thank you for registering at Disney.com, the best place
to find out what's new at Disney!  From now on, all you'll need to 
enter our contests and sweepstakes are your parent or guardian's 
permission -- and your Disney.com Registration Name and Password.  
We suggest you make a note of these names so you don't forget them.
If you do forget them, you can use your special, easy-to-remember 
Disney.com "code word" to find them again.

Just to make sure our records are correct, please take a look at the
information you gave us:

     Your first name:                cypherpunks
     Your last name:                 cypherpunks
     Your e-mail address:            cypherpunks at algebra.com
     Your parent's e-mail address:   cypherpunks at algebra.com
     The year of your birth:         1990
     Your Registration Name:         cypherpunks

We're sending your parent or guardian an e-mail message just to let
them know you've registered with us.  Any prizes you win at
Disney.com will be awarded to them on your behalf, so they should
know you registered.

There's a whole world of Disney at your fingertips, so have fun!

        -- Your friends at Disney.com


(c) Disney







From guest_mail at online.disney.com  Sat Jan 24 19:28:22 1998
From: guest_mail at online.disney.com (guest_mail at online.disney.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:28:22 +0800
Subject: Disney.com Registration Notification
Message-ID: <34ca9bfc3e7c002@piglet-136.disneyblast.com>



Dear Parent --
     
We at Disney.com wanted to let you know that a guest has registered 
at our Web site as your child.  We welcome guests of all ages, and 
it is our policy to let parents and guardians know when children 
under 16 send us personal information. 
     
This message is only a confirmation -- it does not require a reply 
if you grant your child permission to be registered at Disney.com.  
If you'd like to cancel that Registration, please see the 
instructions below. 
     
Here's what we received when your child registered:
     
     Your child's first name:              cypherpunks
     Your child's last name:               cypherpunks
     Child's e-mail address:               cypherpunks at algebra.com
     Parent's e-mail address:              cypherpunks at algebra.com
     Your child's year of birth:           1990
     Child's Disney.com Registration Name: cypherpunks
     
You might want to ask what your child's Password is and make a note 
of it.  If you or your child lose or forget the Disney.com 
Registration Name and/or Password, you can retrieve them using the 
special, easy-to-remember "code word" your child also selected 
upon registering.  If your child wins prizes at Disney.com, you will 
receive them on his or her behalf.  
     
If you'd like to cancel your child's Disney.com Registration, please
follow these simple steps:
     
1. Click the "Reply" button on your e-mail application.
2. Make sure your reply contains the text of this message (including
   your child's name, e-mail address, and Registration Name).
3. Type "Unsubscribe my child" in the "Subject" area at the top of 
   your message, and send the message back to us.  That's it!
     
We welcome you and your child to Disney.com, the best place to find 
out what's new from Disney!
     
        -- Your friends at Disney.com
     
     
     
     
(c) Disney






From attila at hun.org  Sat Jan 24 20:00:12 1998
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:00:12 +0800
Subject: attila & maureen on Bubba
Message-ID: <19980125.033137.attila@hun.org>





             Attila & Maureen on Clinton 
    
    
     
    
    
    
 

         
   
Clinton's Achilles' Heel
well, this may finally do it for Clinton. if he was not so stupid, he would pack out of white house in the middle of the night, pick up his ill-gotten gains from Switzerland, or wherever he has them stashed, and disappear into the night --but, no, he might be forced to settle for Hillary-- which would be revenge served up cold --they deserve each other.

if the Asian crisis was not in full rage, and the US market shaky with worry, we could afford to dump Clinton in the dumpster --unfortunately, the spectacle of an American President actually being successfully impeached will probably blow the American and European markets right out of the water --and the American economy with it --that just might be Clinton's lasting legacy. he may deserve that footnote in history, but the rest of us certainly do not.

the NWO powers behind our "throne" may have needed a patsy after their main man became unelectable, but they certainly could have done better than bubba. you'd think they, or even the Democratic power bosses who were against him in the primaries would have done more evaluation of his bimbo patrol mentality before they committed.

even I was a little skeptical of the "allegations" in the book "Primary Colors" (particularly to the Hillary affair) and I have been more than a little skeptical of the revelations of the "slave" courier/purveyors who have surfaced, but there may be more fire than smoke. it was certainly understandable why Joe Kline wrote the book as "Anonymous" --he must have been a cypherpunk-- or at least he should also have been using our anonymous remailers and nontracable digital cash.

God save us from Al Bore. he needed to have a Spiro Agnew in his future, but Janet Reno saved his skin. he is a decent sort, but I just can not handle the left-leaning socialist son-of-a-bitch with his sanctimonious looks --he needs a circuit riding preacher's floppy hat and a mule-- even if he did go to Harvard.

on the other hand, if Al Bore goes down, and they can not agree on a vice-president before Clinton either bales or is smoked out, we would have Newt --that might have been acceptable, except I think Newt either sold out or has been intimidated.

    attila out for the count....

January 25, 1998
NYTimes OpEd Columnist
LIBERTIES / By MAUREEN DOWD
Not Suitable for Children

WASHINGTON -- There have been so many people rushing to TV studios in this giddy and cataclysmic week to talk about sex that networks are bringing makeup artists out of retirement.

The palaver about whether a 21-year-old White House intern had a particular kind of sex with the President has gotten so graphic that CNN's "Inside Politics" Friday featured a warning that the segment might not be suitable for young viewers.

Let's review what we've learned so far.

The President a liar? Knew that.

The President a philanderer? Knew that.

The President reckless in the satisfaction of his appetites? Knew that.

The President would say anything and hurt anybody to get out of a mess? Knew that.

Married men cheat? Knew that.

Married men cheat with young women? Knew that.

Married men who cheat with young women lie about it? Knew that.

Hillary isn't throwing Bill's stuff out on the White House lawn because she is as committed to their repugnant arrangement as he is? Knew that.

The Clinton team -- those great feminists -- devising ways to discredit women who come forward with reports of Clinton peccadilloes? Knew that.

The President and his minions dissembling and splitting hairs and playing semantic games and taking forever to find the documents until our attention wanders? Knew that.

The President has the moxie to pick out a dress for a woman? Didn't know that.

In the delirium of the scandal, something remarkable occurred. The President reportedly admitted, in a deposition to Paula Jones's lawyers, that, oh, yeah, by the way, he did have that affair with Gennifer Flowers, which he so adamantly denied during the '92 campaign.

I still remember James Carville ranting at reporters for being low enough to pay any mind to her, calling it cash for trash.

How can he go back on TV and defend Mr. Clinton in another sex scandal by once more trying to throw doubt on another damning tape?

At least Mr. Carville looked sheepish. Mr. Clinton's famous rapid-response team seems to have bimbo-battle fatigue.

The tapes of Monica Lewinsky, now 24, seem believable, not least because we heard it all before with Gennifer Flowers. Helping to get her a new job, telling her to say nothing went on if anyone asked. "Deny it," Mr. Clinton told Ms. Flowers on tape. "That's all. I mean, I expect them to come look into it and interview you and everything. But I just think if everybody's on record denying it, you've got no problem." The whole modus operandi is right there.

Also, why did Vernon Jordan become a patron to a lowly Pentagon assistant if she was nothing special to the President?

The reality that looms before the American people is not the impeachment of this President. It is the annulment of this President. He has finally determined his own place in history. He will be remembered as the priapic President. The Oval Office appears to be the bachelor pad of a married man who is the Commander in Chief. Like all addicts, this one is surrounded by enablers.

Many Americans had accepted Mr. Clinton as a charming rogue. But the portrait that may be pieced together from the confessions of his willing and unwilling women now looks utterly uncharming. Ms. Lewinsky's nickname for him -- "the big creep" -- could stick.

The Clinton doctrine may turn out to be nothing more than a view of the relationship of oral sex -- or Oval sex -- to adultery. CNN's Judy Woodruff reported that religious scholars could find no biblical basis for Mr. Clinton's purported claim to an Arkansas trooper that the Bible says oral sex is not cheating.

Ted Koppel actually began "Nightline" Thursday with the following sentence: "It may . . . ultimately come down to the question of whether oral sex does or does not constitute adultery."

Well, it sure isn't fidelity.

When Mr. Clinton says now that he can't answer questions about sex, lies and tapes because he must hurry back to governance, people will want him to hurry back to self-governance instead.

   
         
From foggy at gilligan.netisle.net Sat Jan 24 21:08:34 1998 From: foggy at gilligan.netisle.net (Gary Harland) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:08:34 +0800 Subject: Uncle Sam's Sticky Fingers Message-ID: For a general run-down on just how much of your privacy the Feds have access to, take a look at the GAO's Investigator's Guide to Sources of Information (http://www.gao.gov). It's under 'Special Publications and Software'. Photocopies of any postal money orders you've bought? Your Amtrak train reservation history? Uncle Sam's got sticky fingers baby! He doesn't throw anything away. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy at netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at pathfinder.com Sat Jan 24 21:23:21 1998 From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:23:21 +0800 Subject: attila & maureen on Bubba In-Reply-To: <19980125.033137.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: At 03:50 +0000 1/25/98, Attila T. Hun wrote: > > the Democratic power bosses who were against him in the > primaries would have done more evaluation of his bimbo > patrol mentality before they committed.

> Good rant, and a surprisingly good one by Maureen. But it's wrong to say that the Dem power bosses were against Clinton in the primaries. I worked for Jerry Brown's campaign staff in '92 and can testify that they were lined up in Clinton's camp ever since his tenure at the DLC. -Declan From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Jan 24 21:32:16 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:32:16 +0800 Subject: Executing Kaczynski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801250527.VAA28005@netcom8.netcom.com> [TCM] > >BTW, Kaczynski is apparently no crazier that any number of Cypherpunks I >have met, including myself. hee, hee. > Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected >for a while as being the Unabomber. whoa, are you being facetious here or what? would you care to elaborate on that little tidbit? From attila at hun.org Sun Jan 25 01:49:39 1998 From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:49:39 +0800 Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980125.091156.attila@hun.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 980124:1306, in , Tim May was purported to have expostulated to perpetuate an opinion: >There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton >wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect >of boosting his support...or so he hopes. > since the Korean war, American involvement in foreign wars, or the war effort, has escalated in relationship to the needs of the economy --the war effort boosts industrial utilization --eg money and the economy-- and Americans vote with their pocketbooks. Clinton just might be dumb enough to consider a war footing would take the collective minds off his incredible stupidity --the man is literally being led around by his crank; bubba must have heard too many stories about hairy palms... as Maureen said in the Times, most Americans had accepted that Clinton was a charming rogue --but this last round is exposing the callous disregard for not only women, but truth and respect for privilege-- that is the end of confidence, and like any relationship, the loss of confidence is self-destructive. the concern should be for the troops who could be left standing in the desert whistling Dixie... Bush was able to rally support from foreign powers, which led to domestic support, primarily due to his good report and respect from foreign leaders --bubba is a laughing stock; who will follow his flag. if the tapes are even close to real, Clinton needs to take helicopter one to Andrews and fade into history --NOW. the thought of Al Bore in the Presidency is appalling --but it certainly can not be any worse than bubba. al bore will be intractable with the Republican Congress, but so what else is new? --at least they can not create bad law! >If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to >disrupt the war effort. I frankly dont believe you made that suggestion --the damage would not be to the government, but to our fellow citizens who have been ordered to commence action. I did not agree with what I was orderer to do, but I did not place the lives of my dependent troops in danger for my beliefs --I resigned the commission eventually and have been a foe of their dishonest foreign policy ever since. regardless of the immorality and stupidity of Clinton, there is no justification, and certainly no honour, for permitting KIA American troops to be dumped into the spectacle of being dragged through the streets of Somalia, etc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNMsH+7R8UA6T6u61AQF5uQH9EfDnTjZWhWqXvagb8a56WPVjyGSlD7zA KNvsPeNppG4SDLbTweQCBcVnVd3y7Yx+z1z54K9Qc3RmBPcXk/Gy3Q== =Dtra -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sender1998 at aol.com Sun Jan 25 18:49:55 1998 From: sender1998 at aol.com (sender1998 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:49:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: I just mailed you a check ... Message-ID: <.> I just mailed you a check ... How many times have you heard that from a customer? NOW YOU CAN TAKE CHECKS BY PHONE - FAX - or - INTERNET and deposit the funds into your bank the same day! That's right, using CheckWriter, you can take a customer's check by phone-fax-email or internet form, and deposit it into any U.S. bank the same day - Best of all it is TOTALLY FREE !!! Once you own the software. NO MORE WAITING - GET THE ORDER EVERY SINGLE TIME !!! CheckWriter will work on any Windows 95/NT PC. You can continue to draft unlimited checks completely fee FREE. Software packages $59.99 - $119.99 ... To find out more about CheckWriter for Windows call toll Free M-F 9 am to 6 pm Eastern Time... free 1-800-893-6001 OR write for more information Click here to remove <---put your e mail address in subj. line ! Click here to ask for more info PRINT THIS E-MAIL OUT NOW - KEEP THIS OR PASS IT ON... There are over 70 million American consumers who don't have a credit card...but they do have a checking account...don't miss these important customers, call us today... 1-800-893-6001 ************************************************************************** This mailing was sent by RCS Promotions on behalf of Instantpc. RCS obtained your name by purchasing a list of addresses targeted towards business customers. RCS has no affiliation with InstantPC other than to provide a mailing service. If you feel you have received this message in error please click on the remove hyperlink or call RCS directly at 617-892-4191. Click here to remove <---put your e mail address in subj. line ! From hjk at ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de Sun Jan 25 03:04:38 1998 From: hjk at ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de (Heinz-Juergen Keller) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:04:38 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" wrote: >Junkbusters works very nicely for me. I highly recommend it. >A warning about cookies: no proxy server I know can >stop the server from trying to set the cookie by >a) putting a >in the header; [SNIP] Installed Junkbuster yesterday with a blocklist that seems to work o.k. Just a silly? question on cookies: What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? Is there anything speaking against this solution? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heinz-Juergen Keller hjk@[mail.]ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de hjkeller at gmx.[net,de] 2047bit PGP Public Key : http://www.ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de/~hjk/ MD5 Fingerprint: 4d33126fbf8c1bcd8e96ba90d99f0bdc - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMsaoyZWWJBRAP1VAQE5Ugf7Bum+X0GRqAkGvp7Ir9MzpWI6XmlE01dc TrnG1ltkhIoU7JWTSNimsBeA0Pdw0fZZJpHhyNowCb0zR/H/J7/I/ksHUJWrr+/I eSRcO6Kwn8QlgjpDO+AfZiGtjtcm6ogPQhpLmyTFHRj6gNU+ksYTka6cC46zVfTI oWPx1vNLMZrG7OoMep61d9RQRSIIQQRzG3Ksc/5fwldmF7IWH5+9VnOncuT7ZJLm 59rvqyO4R9CaymI47jUTfpe+XNJzZR3PHix2OBiRtiXFgJsxc014Qk/lkVDiJH8T g+B5nE1N9xN7PqIAmMW7kuFaq4d4QhjMvYxGfa5ZCd8aPxhi5oLQMg== =2UCV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 25 04:55:28 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:55:28 +0800 Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980125034213.006c389c@popd.netcruiser> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:06 PM 1/24/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: > >There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton >wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of >boosting his support...or so he hopes. Can you say "Wag The Dog," boys & girls? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMslFMJF0kXqpw3MEQKZHQCgpVfszPqVjIr04ViTQb5WNMyMEiMAoIqA vOfsUOAs2wgjgCmo39lbx/cf =GM7f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lordsmen at iquest.net Sun Jan 25 07:39:30 1998 From: lordsmen at iquest.net (Gregory L. Robinson) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:39:30 +0800 Subject: Unabomber's Background Message-ID: <199801251525.HAA21906@toad.com> Could someone please post Mr. Kaczynski's (sp?) education background and some bio information or point me towards a website that contains some? Greg Robinson From jim at acm.org Sun Jan 25 09:25:16 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:25:16 +0800 Subject: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CB736A.CC97CCEF@acm.org> Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: > Just a silly? question on cookies: > What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? > Is there anything speaking against this solution? Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works well for me. -- Jim Gillogly Highday, 4 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:05 12.19.4.15.14, 5 Ix 12 Muan, Eighth Lord of Night From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 25 10:10:03 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:10:03 +0800 Subject: Unabomber's Background In-Reply-To: <199801251525.HAA21906@toad.com> Message-ID: <2kiVJe55w165w@bwalk.dm.com> "Gregory L. Robinson" writes: > Could someone please post Mr. Kaczynski's (sp?) education background and > some bio information or point me towards a website that contains some? It's _Dr._ Kazinski. He's got a math phd. Who else's got one on this list? (He used to be a tenure-track associate professor at U California Berkeley) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Jan 25 10:23:45 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:23:45 +0800 Subject: Burning papers Message-ID: <199801251819.MAA17338@manifold.algebra.com> Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than shredding. - Igor. From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 25 10:32:26 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:32:26 +0800 Subject: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] In-Reply-To: <34CB736A.CC97CCEF@acm.org> Message-ID: <1yiVJe59w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Jim Gillogly writes: > Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: > > Just a silly? question on cookies: > > What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? > > Is there anything speaking against this solution? > > Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: > the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've > merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > > It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some > sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" > to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject > them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser > to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works > well for me. microsoft.com, firefly.com, and parts of yahoo.com wee the only sites I found that 1) try to set the cookie, 2) test if the cookies is what they expected, 3) refuse to proceed if the cookie isn't what they expected it to be. Here are a few more neat wafers that I use with junkbuster: wafer Apache=0 wafer cookieswork=1 # .hotwired.com randomhacker cypherpunks (cypherpunks was already taken # and password wasn't cypherpunks) wafer u=randomhacker:XXXrHYVJ4gKTg:888306120: # barnes and noble cypherpunks wafer userid=21200U41QE # .ffly.com v2 random_q_hacker cypherpunks (again, cypherpunks already taken # with a different password) wafer NAME=random%5Fq%5Fhacker wafer ALIAS=random%5Fq%5Fhacker wafer FIREFLYTICKETV2=a3d11c2224f036b8c5da227f07ac7694b3430734d16595e7ff09c9216dbac8af6 wafer FFLYID=381916 # .ffly.com v3 wafer USERNAME=random$5Fq$5Fhacker wafer USERID=4031415 wafer USERKEY=rrL2ECYFs8Q wafer PASSWORD=rrL2ECYFs8Q # I haven't quite gotten this wafer to work: # .firefly.net random_q_hacker(.firefly):cypherpunks (won't let user=password) wafer FIREFLYTICKETV3 XWHKLLTVMLTVYWVJEHUNMHa\XVLHNHLGHIVRVUKKKKKK # .yahoo.com cypherpunks:cypherpunks wafer Y=v=1&n=fh5fme4ro4p10&l=2of74hfkdai/o&p=f1s022r2030r wafer M=dp=sum&lg=us wafer T=z=34caa94c While this is tangentially crypto-relevant, let's start a thread on feeding wafers to various tracking software to convince it that the same cypherpunks entity is doing all of our browsing. Can several of people agree on feeding the same values of the following wafers: # .pathfinder.com wafer PFUID=ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff # webcrawler.com wafer AnonTrack=FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF # RealMedia (NYTimes et al) wafer RMID=0 # .hotwired.com wafer p_uniqid=0osqlPoOiF7XKIGM6D wafer s_uniqid=0osqlPoOiF7XKIGM6D wafer unique_id=1668800885692100 wafer NGUserID=ced54487-134-885708087-1 wafer session-id=0 wafer session-id-time=0 # .geocities.com wafer GeoStitial=885690000 wafer GeoId=0 wafer EGSOFT_ID=0 wafer CFID=0 # .four11.com wafer Urid=68847000 wafer DOL=0 wafer DTRACK=0 Protect your privacy by confusing the software that would violate it. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ghio at temp0199.myriad.ml.org Sun Jan 25 11:00:22 1998 From: ghio at temp0199.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:00:22 +0800 Subject: NYTimes web cookies Message-ID: <199801251852.NAA20393@myriad> > Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your > userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, > it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time > NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're > a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster > config: > > wafer PW=0 > wafer ID=0 > > and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate a new one. An example cookie is below: NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|||||##### The characters marked ^^^ appear to be random, and change every time a new cookie is generated. The ones marked ##### appear to encode the originating IP address, and ||||| appears to be date/time. The rest don't seem to change (tho I only tried ID=cypherpunks PW=cypherpunks). The server will still accept the cookie if your IP address changes. There does seem to be some sort of checksum on the data. While the relatively small area it uses to store the time and IP address wouldn't seem to leave much room for this, I wasn't able to find a spoofed cookie that it would accept - perhaps the checksum is included in the 'random' part. From alan at clueserver.org Sun Jan 25 11:18:48 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:18:48 +0800 Subject: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125110902.03834b80@clueserver.org> At 09:16 AM 1/25/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: > >Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: >> Just a silly? question on cookies: >> What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? >> Is there anything speaking against this solution? > >Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: >the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've >merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > >It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some >sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" >to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject >them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser >to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works >well for me. You can also make the cookie.txt file read only. Both of these options only make the cookies valid for the current session. They do not make them go away all together. Some of the site that cookie bomb do so out of ignorance. Old versions of Apache have such cookie bombing set by default. (They changed the name of the option soon after. The option was originally called "Mod_cookies" and people left it figuring that if they disabled it, they could not use cookies. Actually it is a method for tracking usage patterns within a site. The module was renamed to reflect that.) I am willing to bet that most of the sites that send cookies are not even using the data they provide. Few log file crunchers can make use of the cookie data from user tracking in any worthwhile manner. Any company that relies on cookies to hold onto membership information is foolish. (Cookie files only hold 300 entries. Surf enough and the membership infomation gets washed away with the tide.) Cookies are not needed for storefronts. There are better ways to accomplish the same thing. (There are CGI storefronts that save the information on files on the server, for instance.) I can understand why cookies were thought up in the first place. Much of cgi programming is overcoming the stateless nature of http. Unfortunatly, the idea was not thought out that well... --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 25 12:04:26 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:04:26 +0800 Subject: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <199801251819.MAA17338@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125115620.007d0680@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 12:19 PM 1/25/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really >well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the >past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole >big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than >shredding. There are shredders, and then there are shredders. The SOHO-sized shredders that just cut things into ribbons aren't very thorough (and it's been demonstrated that documents shredded that way can be reassembled by sufficiently large numbers of Iranian college students) but they're good prep for burning the papers. On the other hand, the cross-cut shredders that leave flakes no more than 1/8" rectangles or even smaller chad are good enough for classified documents. Of course, if your documents are on floppy disks, any shredder that won't jam on them does a pretty good job :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sun Jan 25 12:08:48 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:08:48 +0800 Subject: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801251852.NAA20393@myriad> Message-ID: <199801252000.VAA04977@basement.replay.com> ghio at temp0199.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) wrote: > It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. > After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only > cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. > If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate > a new one. An example cookie is below: > > NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> I put this wafer in my junkbuster-configfile and disabled all other cookies, and NYTimes let me in without asking for a password, but after I read a few articles, the site started behaving strangely, where the server would seem to hang on certain pages, taking forever to send the html. Interesting though. Maybe we should hold a cypherpunks 'potluck' where everyone trades cookies. :) From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Jan 25 12:14:27 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:14:27 +0800 Subject: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980125115620.007d0680@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801252007.OAA19838@manifold.algebra.com> Bill Stewart wrote: > Of course, if your documents are on floppy disks, any shredder that > won't jam on them does a pretty good job :-) I burned a couple of floppies, too. 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TRANSLATIONS As well as English you can now choose any of these languages DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm ESPA�OL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm FRAN�AIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?260 Pic 2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?261 Pic 3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?262 Pic 4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?263 Pic 5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?264 Pic 6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?265 Pic 7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?266 Pic 8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?267 Pic 9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?268 Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?269 ============================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US. ============================================================ From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 25 14:06:00 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:06:00 +0800 Subject: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801252000.VAA04977@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > ghio at temp0199.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) wrote: > > > It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. > > After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only > > cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. > > If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate > > a new one. An example cookie is below: > > > > NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVu > > I put this wafer in my junkbuster-configfile and disabled all other cookies, > and NYTimes let me in without asking for a password, but after I read a few > articles, the site started behaving strangely, where the server would seem > to hang on certain pages, taking forever to send the html. I played around with nytimes.com some more and I'm certain that it does check for the presense the ID= in the cookie (but not the value). Apparently the following 2 is necessary and sufficient: NPLCNYT=(whatever it tried to set it to) ID=(anything; I used ID=0 to save bandwidth) With ID=0, it says "welcome, 0" of the first page and I see no problems. > Interesting though. Maybe we should hold a cypherpunks 'potluck' where > everyone trades cookies. :) A good idea. here are more of mine: #.reference.com wafer userid=cypherpunks at bwalk.dm.com wafer passwd=cypherpunks (I haven't been able to register cypherpunks at algebra.com on reference.com) # amazon.com cypherpunks at algebra.com cypherpunks wafer group_discount_cookie=F wafer session-id=1451-4798095-404463 wafer session-id-time=886320000 wafer ubid-main=3578-1328899-434066 wafer cf=c90fe571f7b5f873 By the way, junkbuster does NOT strip cookies in secure http. Be careful. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From honig at otc.net Sun Jan 25 14:09:55 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:09:55 +0800 Subject: How to eliminate liability? In-Reply-To: <19980123220714.7351.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125135447.007c1100@otc.net> At 02:07 PM 1/23/98 PST, John M wrote: >but I hadn't heard of it. I >have been meaning to buy Schneier's book... Still waiting for my Dobb's CDROM too.. >meaningful information without the other parts. Because of this, I have >been asking myself, how could any one datahaven operator be held >responsible for holding classified, porn, or other information if they >only have a meaningless slice of it? > >Perhaps this is more a legal question (even more out of my league) than >anything... Any comments? I think the essential issue is to convince the courts that running a cryptoarchive background process (distributed Eternity server) makes you a "Common Carrier", with all the legal protection you get from that classification. I agree with you and Bill that this is feasible once the legal profession gets a clue.. maybe in our lifetimes :-) The worst-case situation is a very widely dispersed government denying that kind of common-carrier status. Imagine congress signing something giving the UN that power, then declaring all encrypted-anonymous-archives illegal. Send a few blue-hats or a cruise missile to take out the non-signers. Back home: "who cares, just the UN protecting the children, so what if a Cayman casino or Togo bank gets toasted. No one was hurt, and the world is safe for imbiciles" In such a scenario you could take other steps. Steganography helps keep you from being noticed. Bursty-communications patterns are harder to stop/trace. CDROMs are readily manufactured hidden, and disguised. Perhaps the cypherpunk edition of Netscape will include anonymous remailing / traffic mixing services by default :-) David Honig honig at alum.mit.edu --------------------------------------------------- If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy. -TJ From adam at homeport.org Sun Jan 25 14:33:50 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:33:50 +0800 Subject: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801252000.VAA04977@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801252224.RAA28834@homeport.org> Anonymous wrote: | Interesting though. Maybe we should hold a cypherpunks 'potluck' where | everyone trades cookies. :) .nytimes.com TRUE / FALSE 946684173 RDB C802002E1B000055 5301026495323B0100000000000000 Anyone figured out how to get Amazon's Group-discount cookie to set to true? :) Incidentally, I edit my file something between daily and weekly, in the hopes of generating bizare and worthless data for them. I also spend time clicking random links while on the phone to help fill my cookie file with junk. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 25 15:56:00 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:56:00 +0800 Subject: Technolgies of Political Control Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980125234726.00bae108@pop.pipeline.com> Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf M�ller we offer an excerpt of the draft European Parliament report on global surveillance cited in news reports recently: An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control Scientific and Technological Options Assessment Working Document (Consultation version) PE 166 499 Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 The report covers: - The Role & Function of Political Control Technologies - Recent Trends and Innovations - Developments in Surveillance Technologies - Innovations in Crowd Control Weapons - New Prison Control Systems - Interrogation, Torture Techniques and Technologies - Regulation of Horizontal Proliferation - Further Research See excerpt: http://jya.com/atpc.htm Printed copies are available from the staff of the British MEP Glyn Ford (tel +322 2843748 fax +322 2849059, jford at europarl.eu.int). From schear at lvdi.net Sun Jan 25 17:50:02 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:50:02 +0800 Subject: Technolgies of Political Control In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980125234726.00bae108@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: At 6:47 PM -0500 1/25/98, John Young wrote: >Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf M�ller we offer an excerpt >of the draft European Parliament report on global >surveillance cited in news reports recently: > > An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control >Scientific and Technological Options Assessment > Working Document (Consultation version) > PE 166 499 > Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 The report makes mention of built-in surveillence feature in CCITT compliant ISDN products. ""What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being aware that it is happening." Seems like an awful lot of CP using ISDN gear should beware. Many ISDN devices are firmware based. Might this not spawn a number of good crack projects to remove this feature from popular products. I use an Ascend P25. The docs say its CCITT compliant. Sooo does it enable this form of surveillence? Enquiring minds want to know. The draft paper referneces an article in SGR Newsletter, No.4, 1993. Is this a reference to Scientists for Global Responsibility? Where can I read a copy of this article? --Steve From schear at lvdi.net Sun Jan 25 18:11:13 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:11:13 +0800 Subject: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801251852.NAA20393@myriad> Message-ID: At 1:52 PM -0500 1/25/98, Matthew Ghio wrote: >> Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your >> userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, >> it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time >> NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're >> a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster >> config: >> >> wafer PW=0 >> wafer ID=0 >> >> and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. > > >It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. >After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only >cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. >If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate >a new one. An example cookie is below: > >NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> Anyone have something similar for the WSJ? --Steve From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 18:11:43 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:11:43 +0800 Subject: future proofing algorihtms (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium) In-Reply-To: <199801221532.JAA28790@email.plnet.net> Message-ID: <199801260118.BAA00753@server.eternity.org> John Kelsey writes on cpunks: > >1. communications crypto used by the author in submitting > > the document is broken > > This is only a threat if the authorities have a good idea > who submitted the data, and want to prove it. If we assume that the document was submitted by mixmaster remailer, and that there is another leap forward in factoring algorithms such that 1024 bit isn't enough any more. (Not like it hasn't happened before cf Rivest & friend's original predictions of hardness of RSA-129). Now threat model is that NSA is archiving mail between mixmaster nodes. They observe which exit mail corresponds to the target document. They look at the set of mixmaster mails going into that node which could plausibly have corresponded to that message as determined by the pool size. Repeat to get back to originator. If we assume 100 message pool size (probably generous) and chain of length 10, that is 1000 decryptions which adds equivalent to 10 bits worth of symmetric key size. Paranoid stuff yes, but the NSA mixmaster traffic archive doesn't seem that unlikely. It is interesting to note that Tim May's recent suggestion of LAM (Local Area Mixes) would help here because if 5 of those mixmaster nodes where part of a LAM, it is unlikely that the NSA would be able to archive inter remailer traffic, thus increasing effective pool size to 100^5. So one advantage of the LAM approach is that it provides links which are protected by physical security. A user might like to amuse himself trying to use channels he suspects will not be archived as the entry point. Perhaps a disposable account at a high volume free mail account like hot mail might be nice. We would like to push NSA's problem towards having to archive the entire net traffic. > >2. the eternity architecture contains encrypted documents to > > frustrate attempts to locate documents, and to hide the > > contents of documents from individual servers > > Again, this won't be too economical unless the eternity > service is rarely used. The design criteria of efficiency and robustness are conflicting. Our problem is to design something with useful tradeoffs. Probably a system offering a range of trade offs so that low risk documents can make use of more efficient but less secure services, etc. > M XOR s_1(K1) XOR S_2(k2) XOR ... XOR s_5(k5). > > leaves no way to recover M unless all five s_i() can be > guessed. > > Note that, in practice, this isn't likely to be useful > unless you've done the same kind of thing for symmetric key > distribution, random number generation, etc. Otherwise, > your attacker in 2050 will bypass the symmetric encryption > entirely and factor your RSA modulus, or guess all the > entropy sources used for your PRNG, or whatever else you can > think of. Yes. We need to build constructs for all areas. A mega hash would be nice, with a large output size even in the face of birthday attack, preferably as secure as a collection of hash functions. That gives us something to wash our pseudo random number input entropy with, and then we can go on to combine public key systems. A problem with public key systems however is that there isn't a lot of choice -- basically all based on discrete log or factoring. So perhaps RSA and DH combined in a construct with an optimistically proportioned key size would be near all that could be done. > The good news, though, is that active attacks (like chosen > input attacks) and many side-channel attacks (e.g., timing > attacks) turn out not to be possible if you are trying to > mount them after the encryption has been carried out. A variation of this is that if we can get widely deployed blanket encryption (IPSEC), we have largely won because we can mix all sorts of things below that envelope, and the NSA is reduced to archiving some large proportion of network traffic. Our task is then to design protocols which aggresively rekey (earliest opportunity) and which maximise the number of nodes which the NSA would need to archive traffic between to recover traffic with future cryptanalysis. I suspect archiving world Network traffic would pose something of a operational and financial strain :-) Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Thank you, Random Q. Hacker, for setting your preferences at nyrealty.com Now, every time you return to www.nyrealty.com, the site will be customized according to your preferences. If you have any questions regarding the operations of the site or if you need assistance in finding an apartment in New York City, please contact us at aptinfo at nyrealty.com Sincerely, Real Estate On-Line http://www.nyrealty.com From kelsey at plnet.net Sun Jan 25 18:21:35 1998 From: kelsey at plnet.net (John Kelsey) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:21:35 +0800 Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? Message-ID: <199801260212.UAA29879@email.plnet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 01/25/98 ## Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? ] >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:53:19 -0800 >From: Bill Stewart >Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? >At 11:16 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote: >>It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from >>blocking porn. All of the technology being developed for the >>latter purpose (PICS for example) will eventually be used >>for the former. >With both PICS ratings for web pages and the new TV ratings, >somehow the ratings only apply to the program and not the >ads. After all, if each TV commercial had to be separately >rated, people would rapidly develop equipment to autoblock >commercials, and that just wouldn't do. Note that there's a difference in incentives, here, too. Porn sites in most countries, including the US, have some strong legal and social incentives to rate themselves honestly, and probably have relatively little financial incentive to rate themselves inaccurately. (Think of the hassles you get with things like disputed credit card payments made by someone's 14-year-old kid.) This makes the blocking software's job a lot easier. I just can't see what incentive advertisers have to co-operate with rating systems of this kind. How would it improve your bottom line? Advertisers are likely to get paid either on the basis of number of people who see the ad, or on the basis of number of people who click on the ad. In either case, letting your ad be casually filtered out is just not going to make you any money. About the only incentive I can see for letting your ads be blocked is the desire not to make too many ad recipients mad at the advertiser. (Presumably, this is the reason why spam is almost never used by reputable companies--they don't want to make too many potential customers angry.) But this doesn't seem to apply to webpage ads, which manage not to be quite intrusive enough to enrage their targets. >Unfortunately, you're probably right, though providers and >advertisers who really want their messages to get through >will find ways to do it. The current banners are nice, >friendly implementations in that they're easy to identify >and block; newer ones will just be sneakier. I assume that, sooner or later, the advertisements will be woven in so well that it's all-but-impossible to get rid of them without also getting rid of the useful content you're trying to read/see/use. [Good comments deleted.] >Alternatively, >they may go to clickthrough payment models - the web page >owner only gets paid when people click on the ad, though >perhaps at a higher rate than current "impressions". Maybe. Either way, in the long run, ads that don't seem to be generating sales aren't going to be renewed. Being able to count clicks gives you one metric for this; another is completed sales from those clicks. This defines why web page owners that are making lots of ad revenue will have lots of incentive to make people who use their services look at and respond to their ads. People will try various things to make this happen. If none of them work, then ad-supported pages will cease to exist. Many of the services now supported by ads have other good revenue models. Sites like Dejanews and Altavista have enough name-recognition to do things like sell custom searching or research from their Usenet and Web databases, or provide statistical customer profiles that don't reveal customer identities but are still of use to marketers. >Bill >Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com Note: I read CP-LITE instead of the whole list. Please CC me on replies. - --John Kelsey, kelsey at counterpane.com / kelsey at plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNMwNTiZv+/Ry/LrBAQH6KgP/c0o0ZiraSW7PbmDK6YQh+D3wp48cIn3S manFeca05yuoJDvs6ZKO85ycvVTvVZXBP8tvVDDAMD35CEfxGMNc/0bk1hqS/rx9 /gkHy/OYeKvcSscP9KwWTRtGu+DhHxjNqxOuFFgw6QBCxA5KDdUakF64POlYbi/2 +/kMlWS3on0= =QsU7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 25 18:22:33 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:22:33 +0800 Subject: Technolgies of Political Control (fwd) Message-ID: <199801260213.UAA25274@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I would like to suggest that you reconfigure your editor so it actualy puts in LF/CR's so that it doesn't show up as one long line... Any editing errors are mine. Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:46:02 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Technolgies of Political Control > At 6:47 PM -0500 1/25/98, John Young wrote: > >Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf M�ller we offer an excerpt > >of the draft European Parliament report on global > >surveillance cited in news reports recently: > > > > An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control > >Scientific and Technological Options Assessment > > Working Document (Consultation version) > > PE 166 499 > > Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 > > The report makes mention of built-in surveillence feature in CCITT compliant ISDN products. ""What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being aware that it is happening." Seems like an awful lot of CP using ISDN gear should beware. Many ISDN devices are firmware based. Might this not spawn a number of good crack projects to remove this feature from popular products. I use an Ascend P25. The docs say its CCITT compliant. Sooo does it enable this form of surveillence? Enquiring minds want to know. > All phones can be forced to do this. Even POTS. It's a commenly known 'feature' by most folks in the telecom industry for the last 30+ years. Commen defeat is to leave the phones unplugged or place them next to a radio or television. Then if you want to have a secure conversation go to another room, or better yet take a long walk in your neighborhood at low-traffic times. From webboard at netstrike.com Sun Jan 25 18:55:01 1998 From: webboard at netstrike.com (Webboard Mail Handler) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:55:01 +0800 Subject: Welcome to our WebBoard! Message-ID: <19980126025531339.AAA359@max> Thank you for participating in our conferencing system, Random Q.. Please save this message. It contains important information, such as your login name and password (see below). Our web conferencing offers online Help for all major features. If you have questions about a feature, look for the help button on the menubar or post a message asking for help (Click "Post" on the menubar). You may also want to try features such as email notification, spell checking, file attachments, and more. Here is your login information. Be sure to keep it somewhere safe! Your Login Name: cypherpunks Your Password: cypherpunks You can change your password, email address, and other items by clicking the "Profile" button on the menubar. Please be sure to come back and visit us at: http://max.netstrike.com:8080/~1 We hope you enjoy participating in our conferences! Sincerely, WebBoard Administrator From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sun Jan 25 19:04:54 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:04:54 +0800 Subject: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980125115620.007d0680@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801260300.EAA13290@basement.replay.com> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > I burned a couple of floppies, too. Actually I am not sure how good job > would shredding of floppies do. I assume that bits and pieces of data > can still be recovered... But hopefully no one would care enough. I've heard that you can look at it under a microscope with a polarizing filter and see the magnetic patterns. But it's much easier to just encrypt the disk so you don't waste the media when you're finished. Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sun Jan 25 19:06:38 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:06:38 +0800 Subject: More dumb ad sites for your killfile Message-ID: <199801260247.DAA11848@basement.replay.com> ads.lycos.com ad.doubleclick.net ads.altavista.digital.com ad.preferences.com ph-ad*.focalink.com www.news.com/Banners ads.lycos.com static.wired.com/advertising From Registration at Reba.com Sun Jan 25 19:25:00 1998 From: Registration at Reba.com (Registration at Reba.com) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:25:00 +0800 Subject: Welcome to RebaNet Message-ID: <19980125221210.7cf0008f.in@olsmx0.judds.com> Hello, and welcome to RebaNet! I hope you enjoy what we have put together for you on my web site. We've tried to make it fun and entertaining, as well as informative. RebaNet is filled with extras such as: chat, message boards, Reba Review, and you'll even have to opportunity to send me questions through Ask Reba. Isn't modern technology just amazing? I still find it hard to believe that I can write you a letter, hit send, and you have it waiting in your e-mail box just minutes later! From time to time, I will send you email messages. This is a great way for me to keep in touch and let you know what's going on with me. Love, Reba From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 25 19:27:20 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:27:20 +0800 Subject: Burning papers (fwd) Message-ID: <199801260322.VAA25747@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:00:08 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Burning papers > From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > I've heard that you can look at it under a microscope with a polarizing > filter and see the magnetic patterns. Go down to your local security or electronics supply (not Rat Shack) and you should be able to buy a polarized loupe and see it directly. > Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces > water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The > only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. If it has any N in it then don't burn it in a closed space otherwise you will get various xCN compounds. These are very toxic, KCN is Potassium Cyanide. In general you don't want to burn most plastics in closed spaces or be downwind because they do give off various toxic chemicals. You can check with your local fire dept. and they can provide references on the plastics used in television cases, 3.5 floppy covers (v the disk itself), video tape, etc. and the sorts of gases they give off. When my house burned 3 years ago both my cats were killed because of smoke inhalation (approx. 9 computers and bunches of other plastics went up). It was not a pretty sight. Congealed blood from lung eruptions on their lips, very blue tinge to the skin, etc. Not a pretty sight. If you're smart avoid burning plastics except under very controlled circumstances. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sun Jan 25 19:33:54 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:33:54 +0800 Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801260327.EAA16232@basement.replay.com> Anonymous writes: >> 7) What are the following government agencies and what are their function? >> h) DOJ > They harass Microsoft They're the ones who look the other way when high government officials are involved with corruption (like illegal campaign fundraising, etc.). From brianbr at together.net Sun Jan 25 19:46:48 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:46:48 +0800 Subject: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] Message-ID: <199801260341.WAA02927@mx01.together.net> On 1/25/98 12:16 PM, Jim Gillogly (jim at acm.org) passed this wisdom: >Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: >> Just a silly? question on cookies: >> What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? >> Is there anything speaking against this solution? > >Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: >the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've >merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > >It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some >sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" >to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject >them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser >to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works >well for me. On a Mac you can erase the cookies file and then create a folder by the same name in its place ... Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "One of the deep mysteries to me is our logo, the symbol of lust and knowledge, bitten into, all crossed with in the colors of the rainbow in the wrong order. You couldn't dream of a more appropriate logo: lust, knowledge, hope, and anarchy." -- Gassee - Apple Logo From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 25 23:09:27 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:09:27 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125184413.0086fd20@popd.ix.netcom.com> I was amused to receive two mail messages back-to-back, one from Peter Gutmann talking about New Zealand having one of the strictest formal export controls in the world, and one from RPK New Zealand talking about how their encryption product is not export-controlled because it's from NZ, not the US, and how their RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine is the strongest crypto in the world. Either they haven't bothered asking for export permission, or they asked in such a way that the export bureaucrats didn't notice it was crypto and regulated by their crypto export preventers, or their crypto somehow falls through the cracks, e.g. by using an algorithm with public keys shorter than 512 bits (works for ECC, not RSA) and private keys shorter than 40 bits (or 41 on a good day), or perhaps passes the "snake oil test" for export permission. I suppose it's possible that the NZ Export Bureaucrats have lightened up since Peter's last dealings with them, but it's not likely. >--------------- The mail, referencing www.invisimail.com >RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. >has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security >application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). >The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in >the world. Since it was built outside the United States, >it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. >RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type >to setup and use which makes it quite unique. ========= From Peter Gutmann's web page This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ ============================== Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sun Jan 25 23:48:22 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:48:22 +0800 Subject: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve Schear writes: > At 1:52 PM -0500 1/25/98, Matthew Ghio wrote: > >> Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your > >> userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, > >> it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time > >> NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're > >> a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster > >> config: > >> > >> wafer PW=0 > >> wafer ID=0 > >> > >> and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. > > > > > >It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. > >After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only > >cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. > >If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate > >a new one. An example cookie is below: > > > >NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua > > Anyone have something similar for the WSJ? www.wsj.com is a pay site ($49 | $29 / annum). Someone (not me) might want to post the details of their subscription so everyone else could use it; I suspect that the folks running wsj.com might object. I messed around some more with various sites that use cookies. 1. .CNN.com wants to set the following 4 cookies for "cypherpunks cypherpunks": PNAA=:Ypgxlx L. Egdfbd'sZAQF0: (i.e. Random Q. Hacker) PNAB=:01884: PNAC=:CVGTEOZRSBY: CNN_CUSTOM=1 path=/customnews Problem is, the last one needs the path and there'e no way to fake path in junkbusters wafer. I simply put cnn.com in the cookie file momentarily, logged in to let it set the cookie, then changed it to ">cnn.com" to filter out any updates to these 4 cookies. 2. www.economist.com has a freebie "cypherpunks cypherpunks" account. The cookie is: wafer econ-key=4GgOaV1a Perhaps someone cares to set up a paid account for group use. 3. foxnews.com doesn't allow "cypherpunks" (too long); "cypherpunk" is already taken, and I couldn't guess the password. Would the entity responsible please set the password to what we all expect it to be. :-) 4. avweb.com (aviation site) cypherpunks cypherpunks wafer AVweb_Auth=Y3lwaGVycHVua3M6Y3lwaGVycHVua3M= 5. .reba.com (country music) cypherpunks cypherpunks wafer RebaNet%5FPWD=cypherpunks wafer RebaNet%5FUID=cypherpunks 6. http://www.netstrike.com:8080/ cypherpunks cypherpunks wafer WB-User=cypherpunks wafer WB-Pass=cypherpunks 7. .citywire.com aka .nyrealty.com - manhattan real estate Random Q. Hacker cypherpunks at algebra.com cypherpunks wafer primary_nyrealtyid=Ra34cbf1b0a7d1c wafer nyrealtyid=Ra34cbf1b0a7d1c 8. .netscape.com, .mcom.com wafer NETSCAPE_ID=10010408,121ee744 wafer NSCP-US-DOWNLOAD=pkjbcTTL5OYAAAAAYRr3d8towI7Tj4v3nJwgig== (Should somebody set up a cypherpunks microsoft login for downloading all the patches and bug fixes they put out?) Given the number of these things, it seems that sending them out with every nntp request as a wafer wastes too much bandwidth. Can someone recommend a good program for editing the cookie file? I'm too lasy to write it myself. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From kent at songbird.com Mon Jan 26 00:26:21 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:26:21 +0800 Subject: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <199801251819.MAA17338@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <19980126001920.08937@songbird.com> On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 11:56:20AM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 12:19 PM 1/25/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really > >well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the > >past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole > >big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than > >shredding. > > There are shredders, and then there are shredders. The SOHO-sized > shredders that just cut things into ribbons aren't very thorough > (and it's been demonstrated that documents shredded that way can > be reassembled by sufficiently large numbers of Iranian college students) > but they're good prep for burning the papers. > On the other hand, the cross-cut shredders that leave flakes no more > than 1/8" rectangles or even smaller chad are good enough for > classified documents. Maybe some classified documents. Certainly not for some others. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From anon at anon.efga.org Mon Jan 26 00:29:01 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:29:01 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: Timothy May prefers to have sex with little kids because his own penis is like that of a three-year-old. /\**/\ ( o_o )_) Timothy May ,(u u ,), {}{}{}{}{}{} From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 26 05:54:30 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:54:30 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980126133825.00baba0c@pop.pipeline.com> Bill Stewart compared the PR of RPK New Zealand's crypto to Peter Gutmann's claims for NZ export controls. This contrast confirms the report a few days back that any commercial crypto product that receives export approval from any country is probably compromised notwithstanding the manufacturer's claims otherwise. Not that it's news here, but this appears to be the unpublished requirement for granting of approvals, case by case. Either cooperate or face indefinite delays. As Peter noted some time ago, this is what he was running into when he could not get a clear answer about NZ regulations, and parallels reports of similar experiences in the US, UK and other countries. There is a similar current thread on UK Crypto about the difficulty of getting a straight answer about crypto policy from HMG while observing the success of cooperating crypto manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how hard Congress pushes in the new session to expose what the Administration is up to behind BXA's closed doors in contrast to open accounts. And, what will be revealed (and concealed) bit by bit from the horse-trading of the Bernstein, Karn and Junger cases. From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Jan 26 06:20:45 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:20:45 +0800 Subject: More dumb ad sites for your killfile In-Reply-To: <199801260247.DAA11848@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > ads.lycos.com > ad.doubleclick.net > ads.altavista.digital.com > ad.preferences.com > ph-ad*.focalink.com > www.news.com/Banners > ads.lycos.com > static.wired.com/advertising A desirable feature for a proxy would be to filter portions of what it gets. If we're getting a URL that matches a pattern (like www.stocks.hotshit.com), then once we see a certain pattern in the HTML (start of embedded ad), excise the HTML until we see another pattern. A set of triples. My block file so far is much bigger than yours. Anyone cares to keep the official big blocklist? :-) ************************************************************************** victory.cnn.com/(image|click).ng/ /fox/graphics/yuppie.gif ads.web.aol.com /*/rsac.jpg /gifs/ads/ webtrack.com # look for guesttrack /.*/rsacirated.gif /shell-cgi/adserv/ads /adserver/ /ad-graphics/ /cgi-win/tracker /cgi-bin/Count /cgi-bin/guesttrack webcrawler.com/icons/(tenants.*|bottom_logo).gif netads.*.com/ mckinley.com/img/magellan/butnbar.gif #hotbot.com hotbot.com/images/list.*.gif # banner-net.com/ /cgi-bin/nph-count # yahoo /us.yimg.com/images/compliance/ # Internet explorer logos /.*/ie.*_(animated|static|sm).gif /.*/netnow.*.gif pagecount.com gm.preferences.com # da Silva's stupid list of mailing lists /internet/paml/sponsors /gifs/mlogo3.gif #dejanews /gifs/tripod.gif /gifs/browsers.gif /gifs/dnlogo_r.*.gif # domains smartclicks.com/ resource-marketing.com/ valueclick.com/ bannermall.com/ iname.com/ bannerweb.com/ eads.com/ /interdex/reciprocal/ /cgi-bin/spim/sp/ adforce..*.com/ /cgi-bin/adclick imageserv.imgis.com/images/ /g/ads/ # /graphics/ads/ /OAS/ugo/adstream.cgi/ /content/cgi-bin/clickad/ /content/advertising/ /.*/(S|s)ponsors/.*.gif /cgi-bin/pn/show_ad /gif/ads/ .*banner.*.gif /ad/ /adgenius/ /adproof/ /(A|a)ds/ /adv/ /advertising/ /adverts/ /avimages/ /banner_ds/ /banners/ /banners?/ /CategoryID=0 /cgi-bin/ad-bin/ /cgi-bin/adroll/ /cgi-bin/counter* /cgi-bin/nph-adlick /event.ng/ /gfx/spon/ /gifs/netfinity.gif /gifs/tripod2.gif /graphics/pcast.gif /graphicsadvert /image/ads/ /images/ABCnewsa.gif /images/ads/ /images/deckad1.gif /images/getpoint1.gif /images/nyyahoo.gif /images/partners/ /images/promo/ /img/ads/ /img/art4/home/promo/ /inserts/images/ /ml/gfx/spon/ /pictures/sponsors/ /promobar /promos/ /promotions/ /RealMedia/ads/ /shared/images/marketing/ /sponsor.*/.*.gif 209.25.19.47/ :23 ad.*.com/ adserve.*.com/ ad.*.net/ adcount.hollywood.com/ ads*.focalink.com/ ads.*.com/ bannersolutions.com/ bannerswap.com/ counter.digits.com/ digits.com/ doubleclick.com/ flycast.com/ freestats.com/ globaltrack.com/ globaltrack.net/ gp.dejanews.com/ guide.infoseek.com/ infoseek.com/images/channel/ hitbox.com/ hollynxxx.com/ icount.com/ jcount.com/ linkexchange.com/ register-it.com riddler.com/ sexhound.com/ sexlist.com/ stattrax.com/ style.rahul.net/altavista/adverts/ # Geocities www.geocities.com/cgi-bin/homestead/GeoGuideLite_image* geocities.com/MemberBanners xpagecount.com/ xxxcounter.com/ ************************************************************************** More stuff that I need to sort out: adsmart.net doubleclick.net SmartBanner imageserv.imgis.com/images images.yahoo.com/adv /ad_client.cgi # ms sucks ! /*.*/(ms)?backoff(ice)?.*.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/(msie|sqlbans|powrbybo|activex|backoffice|explorer|netnow|getpoint|ntbutton|hmlink).*.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/activex.*(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/explorer?.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/freeie.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/ie_?(buttonlogo|static?|anim.*)?.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/ie_sm.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/msie(30)?.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/msnlogo.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/office97_ad1.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/pbbobansm.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/powrbybo.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/sqlbans.(gif|jpe?g) # generally useless information and promo stuff (commented out) #/*.*/(counter|getpcbutton|BuiltByNOF|netscape|hotmail|vcr(rated)?|rsaci(rated)?|freeloader|cache_now(_anim)?|apache_pb|now_(anim_)?button|ie_?(buttonlogo|static?|.*ani.*)?).(gif|jpe?g) #------------------------ # # specific servers # #------------------------ 193.158.37.3/cgi-bin/impact 193.210.156.114 194.231.79.38 199.78.52.10 204.253.46.71:1977 204.94.67.40/wc/ 205.216.163.62 205.217.103.58:1977 205.217.103.58:1977 206.50.219.33 207.159.135.72 207.82.250.9 209.1.135.144:1971 209.1.135.142:1971 ad-up.com ads?.*\.(com|net) ad.adsmart.net ad.doubleclick.net ad.infoseek.com ad.linkexchange.com ad.preferences.com adbot.com adbot.theonion.com adcount.hollywood.com adforce.imgis.com adlink.deh.de adone.com ads*.focalink.com ads*.zdnet.com ads.csi.emcweb.com ads.imagine-inc.com ads.imdb.com ads.infospace.com ads.lycos.com ads.narrowline.com ads.realmedia.com ads.softbank.net/bin/wadredir ads.usatoday.com ads.washingtonpost.com ads.web.aol.com ads.web21.com adservant.mediapoint.de banners.internetextra.com bannerswap.com bs.gsanet.com/gsa_bs/ ciec.org/images/countdown.gif click1.wisewire.com click2.wisewire.com clickii.imagine-inc.com:1964 commonwealth.riddler.com customad.cnn.com cyberfirst1.web.cerf.net/image.ng/ digits.com/wc/ dino.mainz.ibm.de flycast.com/ globaltrack.com globaltrak.net gm.preferences.com/image.ng gtp.dejanews.com/gtplacer hardware.pagecount.com/ hitbox.com/wc/ hyperbanner.net icount.com/.*.count images.yahoo.com/promotions/ imageserv.imgis.com impartner.de/cgi-bin linktrader.com/cgi-bin/ logiclink.nl/cgi-bin/ movielink.com/media/imagelinks/MF.(ad|sponsor) nrsite.com nt1.imagine-inc.com nt2.imagine-inc.com nytsyn.com/gifs pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin ph-ad*.focalink.com promo.ads.softbank.net resource-marketing.com/tb/ smartclicks.com/.*/smartimg smh.com.au/adproof/ sysdoc.pair.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/sysdoc/sponsor.gif victory.cnn.com/image.ng/spacedesc videoserver.kpix.com w20.hitbox.com www..bigyellow.com/......mat.* www.ads.warnerbros.com www.fxweb.holowww.com/.*.cgi www.iadventure.com/adserver/ www.infoworld.com/pageone/gif www.isys.net/customer/images www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-ad www.link4link.com/cgi-bin www.mediashower.com/ad-bin/ www.nedstat.nl/cgi-bin/ www.nj.com/adverts www.nrsite.com www.pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin www.search.com/Banners www.smartclicks.com:81 www.swwwap.com/cgi-bin/ www.valueclick.com/cgi-bin/ www.websitepromote.com/partner/img/ www.wishing.com/webaudit yahoo.com/CategoryID=0 #------------------------ # # some images on servers that I frequently visit # #------------------------ # some images on cnn's website just suck! /*.*/book.search.gif /*.*/cnnpostopinionhome..gif /*.*/custom_feature.gif /*.*/explore.anim.*gif /*.*/infoseek.gif /*.*/pathnet.warner.gif /BarnesandNoble/images/bn.recommend.box.* /digitaljam/images/digital_ban.gif /hotstories/companies/images/companies_banner.gif /markets/images/markets_banner.gif /ows-img/bnoble.gif /ows-img/nb_Infoseek.gif cnnfn.com/images/left_banner.gif # die sueddeutsche /*.*/images/artszonnet.jpg # yahoo.de /promotions/bankgiro/ # /gif/buttons/banner_.* /gif/buttons/cd_shop_.* /gif/cd_shop/cd_shop_ani_.* #altavista /av/gifs/av_map.gif /av/gifs/av_logo.gif /*.*/banner_ads/ /*.*/banners?/ /*.*/images/addver.gif /*.*/place-ads /*.*/promobar.* /*.*/publicite/ /*.*/reklame/ /*.*/sponsor.gif /*.*/sponsors?[0-9]?/ /*.*/werb\..* /ad_images/ /bin/nph-oma.count/ct/default.shtml /bin/nph-oma.count/ix/default.html /cgi-bin/nph-load /netscapeworld/nw-ad/ /worldnet/ad.cgi /rotads/ /rotateads/ /rotations/ /promotions/houseads/ ************************************************************************** --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU Mon Jan 26 07:05:10 1998 From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:05:10 +0800 Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801261450.GAA27777@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera at juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config at nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config at anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster at remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias at alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer at replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid at juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer at bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer at anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer at cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer at neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez at juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman at cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 26 08:43:36 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:43:36 +0800 Subject: Technologies of Political Control Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980126162629.006cc9a8@pop.pipeline.com> A bit more on getting a copy of the report: An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control It is Scientific and Technological Options Assessment (STOA) of the European Parliament offering the report, not British MEP Glyn Ford, who was its sponsor. For a copy to be sent by snail, fax a request to STOA in Luxembourg: 352-4300-22418 No electronic version is available from STOA. Draft reports remain in paper format until finalized by the European Parliament, which may take a while. STOA's publications web site was last updated in July 1996, and its rep apologized for the trailing-edge tech. http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/publi.htm From honig at otc.net Mon Jan 26 09:25:58 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:25:58 +0800 Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980126085103.007ffe80@206.40.207.40> At 06:37 PM 1/24/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: disrupt the war effort. > >I'm with you, Commander Timmy. What can I do do get some American aggressors >killed? > >Hands off Iraq! > You haven't been having sexual relations with the President, have you Dmitri? ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." From schear at lvdi.net Mon Jan 26 09:26:08 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:26:08 +0800 Subject: Technolgies of Political Control (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801260213.UAA25274@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 8:13 PM -0600 1/25/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Hi, > >I would like to suggest that you reconfigure your editor so it actualy puts >in LF/CR's so that it doesn't show up as one long line... Thanks, I recently reload my email client and it must have reset I fool the parameters. I don't notice this since Eudora wraps text by default. >All phones can be forced to do this. Even POTS. It's a commenly known >'feature' by most folks in the telecom industry for the last 30+ years. >Commen defeat is to leave the phones unplugged or place them next to a >radio or television. I was aware of the POTS impedence trick, but the ISDN came as a shock. --Steve From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Jan 26 09:36:34 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:36:34 +0800 Subject: cookies and spam Message-ID: <199801261722.SAA01432@basement.replay.com> > 5. .reba.com (country music) cypherpunks cypherpunks > wafer RebaNet%5FPWD=cypherpunks > wafer RebaNet%5FUID=cypherpunks Yes, and thank you for signing up the list for their spam. cypherpunks/cypherpunks also works for dejanews, but at least I had the sense to send the replies to alt.anonymous.messages. From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jan 26 09:36:55 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:36:55 +0800 Subject: CyberSitter to the rescue. Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:19:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic at bsdi.com Subject: CyberSitter to the rescue. Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:08:19 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2639 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Status: U Forwarded-by: Faried Nawaz Forwarded-by: acb at zikzak.net (Andrew C. Bulhak) Forwarded-by: Matt Curtis This is from the PerForce mailing list, PerForce is a source code control system that doesn't use mounted drives, but instead uses TCP/IP socket communications to check code in and out. ----- Well, I just spent several hours tracking something down that I think is SO braindead that it must be called evil. I hope this will save someone else some hassle. There's an NT box on my desk that someone else uses every now and then. This machine is otherwise used as my programming box and backup server. All of a sudden, my programming files were being corrupted in odd places. I thought "hmm, my copy must be corrupt". So I refreshed the files. No change. "hmm, the code depot copy must be corrupt".. Checked from other machines. No problem there. Viewed the file from a web based change browser in Internet Explorer. Same corruption in the file. Telnet'd to the server machine and just cat'd the file to the terminal. Same problem. What's going on? The lines that were corrupted were of the form #define one 1 /* foo menu */ #define two 2 /* bar baz */ What I always saw ON THIS MACHINE ONLY was: #define one 1 /* foo */ # fine two 2 /* bar baz */ Can you guess what was happening? Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and stupid. It also didn't like the method name "RefreshItems" in another file, since there is obviously a swear word embedded in there. Sheesh. It's so bad it's almost funny. Hope this brightens your day as much as it brighted mine :-). ---- +----------------------+---+ | Ross Johnson | | E-Mail: rpj at ise.canberra.edu.au | Info Sciences and Eng|___| | University of Canberra | FAX: +61 6 2015227 | PO Box 1 | | Belconnen ACT 2616 | WWW: http://willow.canberra.edu.au/~rpj/ | AUSTRALIA | +--------------------------+ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jan 26 09:37:03 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:37:03 +0800 Subject: Spies Like Us. Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:33:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Subject: Spies Like Us. Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:21:56 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2642 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Nev Dull Forwarded-by: chuck Forwarded-by: David HM Spector Forwarded-by: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:42:26 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Tsang To: Declan McCullagh Subject: CIA changes Web FAQ: concedes spying on Americans Last month, the CIA had to change its Web FAQ page because of my case, Tsang v. CIA, which was settled when the CIA promised not to spy on me again. But it refused to make the same promise to cover other Americans. The original FAQ page had said "No" to a question whether or not it spies on Americans. Now it concedes it spies on Americans. The new CIA FAQ is at: http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/faq.html See my account in Sunday's (Jan. 18) Los Angeles Times Opinion page: A CIA Target at Home in America. It can be found at: http://www.latimes.com/sbin/my_iarecord.pl?NS-doc-path=/httpd/docs/HOME/NEWS/ OPINION/t000005584.html&NS-doc-offset=1&NS-collection=DailyNews&NS-search-set=/ var/tmp/34c3e/aaaa001wBc3eacf& Daniel C. Tsang Bibliographer for Asian American Studies & Social Sciences (Economics, Politics) Machine-Readable Data Files Librarian Lecturer, School of Social Sciences 380 Main Library University of California PO Box 19557 Irvine CA 92623-9557 USA dtsang at uci.edu (714) 824-4978 (714) 824-5740 fax homepage: http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~dtsang add suffix for news: /netnews1.htm politics: /pol.htm economics: /econ.htm asian american studies: /aas.htm soc sci data archives: /ssda.htm public opinion: /pod.htm AWARE: awarefs/htm host, "Subversity" on KUCI, 88.9 FM in Orange County each Tuesday from 5-6 p.m.; selected shows w/ audio online: http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dtsang/subversity N.B.: This is NOT official University of California correspondence. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 09:46:21 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:46:21 +0800 Subject: Video & cryptography... Message-ID: <199801261728.LAA27585@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I was in a discussion with several people regarding the rate if improvement of current video production equipment and how it would effect the veracity of video images of all sorts in future legal cases. Is anyone aware of anybody working on a mechanism to digitaly sign video and photographs (a cool app of stego I suspect)? This would alleviate a great deal of mistrust for security video cams and such. What I had in mind was the manufacturer puts a unique key in each machines rom's and when each image comes in a signature of the image and the key is stored in the interframe retraces that are normaly not shown (ala videotext). I asked a couple of people in the biz that I know and it seemed a new concept to them. Just a thought... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 26 09:47:32 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:47:32 +0800 Subject: Cylink and Organized Crime? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980126174215.007173cc@pop.pipeline.com> Mr. Gene Carozza Security Public Relations Cylink Corporation Dear Mr. Carozza, We have received two recent e-mail messages concerning Cylink's alleged links to organized crime. The messages may be seen on the Web at: http://jya.com/cylinked.htm This is a serious charge. Could you provide information to answer it? Sincerely, John Young From phelix at vallnet.com Mon Jan 26 09:49:10 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:49:10 +0800 Subject: More dumb ad sites for your killfile In-Reply-To: <199801260247.DAA11848@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <34ccc2d8.377415894@128.2.84.191> On 26 Jan 1998 10:55:17 -0600, nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote: > >ads.lycos.com >ad.doubleclick.net >ads.altavista.digital.com >ad.preferences.com >ph-ad*.focalink.com >www.news.com/Banners >ads.lycos.com >static.wired.com/advertising For those of you with regexp filters, here's my list: .*/(live)*(a|A)d(v|vert|s|ising|stream.cgi)*/ .*/sponsors.*/ .*/ctv22/.ads/ .*\.globaltrack\.com .*\.doubleclick\.net .*/GeoAD.*/ .*\.songline.com.*/\@\- .*ad(s|[0-9])*\.[a-zA-Z0-9]+\.(com|net)/ .*linkexchange.com .*focalink.com .*nytsyn\.com/gifs/ .*(news|cnet|gamecenter|builder|search|download|shareware|activex|browser(s)*)\.com.*Banners/ .*nrsite.com -- Phelix From carozza at cylink.com Mon Jan 26 10:17:22 1998 From: carozza at cylink.com (Gene Carozza) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:17:22 +0800 Subject: Cylink and Organized Crime? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980126095204.00870b10@192.43.161.2> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 782 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Jan 26 10:20:20 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:20:20 +0800 Subject: Burning papers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801260322.VAA25747@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801261805.TAA08049@basement.replay.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces > > water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The > > only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. > > If it has any N in it then don't burn it in a closed space otherwise you > will get various xCN compounds. These are very toxic, KCN is Potassium > Cyanide. As usual Jim, your posting is prolific but your science is lacking. Since N2 is highly stable, CN ions are not an energetically favored result. Some amount may be produced, but CN- is highly reactive and will quickly bind to whatever it comes in contact with (usually oxygen). The only way cyanide could escape in gaseous form is as HCN, however this cannot happen because the hydrogen has a lower activation energy for combining with oxygen, and thus the reaction is starved of free hydrogen by the time the carbon begins to burn. Various other nitrogen compounds are produced, such as NOx, but this is true of all combustion and not limited to plastic. A more likely (and deadly) result, which you did not mention, is sulfur dioxide. Most plastics don't contain sulfur, but rubber products may. Sulfur dioxide combines with water to produce H2SO3 and H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) which is quite toxic if inhaled. > When my house burned 3 years ago both my cats were killed because of smoke > inhalation (approx. 9 computers and bunches of other plastics went up). It > was not a pretty sight. Congealed blood from lung eruptions on their lips, > very blue tinge to the skin, etc. Not a pretty sight. Most smoke inhalation deaths result for particles clogging the lungs rather than gases. Cats have a tendency to hide when they feel threatened or injured, an instinct which often imperils them in a burning building. Also remember that computers have materials in them other than plastic, for example lead and other heavy metals. Batteries and electrolytic capacitors are also sources of many toxic materials. In short, it's not the plastic that's toxic, it's all the other crap (ink, dye, glue, solder, batteries, dielectric, etc) From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 10:43:32 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:43:32 +0800 Subject: Burning Papers - Plastics - Cyanides - Reference Message-ID: <199801261834.MAA28198@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, It took a few minutes to find one, but below is just one of the many standards that are implimented for plastic uses in the home that make reference to minimal levels of HCN in particular. Despite what some folks would like you to believe, plastics in conflagration are *NOT* safe to inhale even in small quantitites because of these gases. Note that I edited a bunch of lines out for brevity. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cern.ch/CERN/Divisions/TIS/safdoc/IS/is41/table1.html > > IS 41 : TABLE 1 > > Test Standards and Specifications > for the Selection of Plastics > > TEST > Standards (1) > Requirements > _________________________________________________________________ > [text deleted] > > Duration of flame application 60 s unless > otherwise stated according to Clause 5. > Time to extinction: 30 s * > Damaged length (mm) must be measured* > > FV0 or FV1 > 94 V0, 94V1 > > FT >260!C. Length burnt > _________________________________________________________________ > [text deleted] > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Toxicity > Toxicity of fire gases > > ABD 0031 > > HF HC1 HCN SO2 + H2S CO NO + NO2 > _________________________________________________________________ > [remainder deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From declan at well.com Mon Jan 26 11:03:24 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:03:24 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? Message-ID: Clinton said this morning: >>>> I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time -- never. These allegations are false. <<<< The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? Is it oral sex? -Declan From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 11:09:42 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:09:42 +0800 Subject: Burning papers (fwd) Message-ID: <199801261855.MAA28261@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:05:54 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Burning papers (fwd) > From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > As usual Jim, your posting is prolific but your science is lacking. Ad hominims, opinions, and no proof... > bind to whatever it comes in contact with (usually oxygen). The only way > cyanide could escape in gaseous form is as HCN, however this cannot happen > because the hydrogen has a lower activation energy for combining with > oxygen, and thus the reaction is starved of free hydrogen by the time the > carbon begins to burn. Various other nitrogen compounds are produced, > such as NOx, but this is true of all combustion and not limited to plastic. I have forwarded to the list a single safety standard for plastics and fires. It *specificaly* mentions HCN, so apparently it not only can happen but does often enough they want to test for it on a national level. There are many more out there and as I said before, if you contact your local fire dept. they can provide you with documentation as well. > A more likely (and deadly) result, which you did not mention, is sulfur > dioxide. Most plastics don't contain sulfur, but rubber products may. Sulfur dioxide is present and does pose a threat, fortunately it's a rather short termed threat and treatable. Sulfur dioxide turns into sulphuric acid in the water of the body. Not to mention it burns up the oxygen in formation. The biggest threat with the acids that are produced in a fire is to your possessions. They soak this stuff up and then when the firemen put the fire out they use water which creates acids. These acids effect the components of your possessions over an extended time. > Sulfur dioxide combines with water to produce H2SO3 and H2SO4 (sulfuric > acid) which is quite toxic if inhaled. Depends on the molarity. It is nowhere near as toxic as cyanide on a per part basis. > Most smoke inhalation deaths result for particles clogging the lungs rather > than gases. Cats have a tendency to hide when they feel threatened or > injured, an instinct which often imperils them in a burning building. Actualy most smoke inhalation deaths occur because of lack of oxygen and the elevated temperatures. The actual clogging process would take much longer than the 2-3 minutes most smoke deaths take to occur. As to cats hiding, they tend to hind *under* furniture which is actualy the *safest* place to be, the clearest air is next to the floor. It was also where my cats were found, in the living room under the couch where the smoke very clearly never got below about shoulder height - it stains the walls quite well. The fire didn't even make it into that part of the house, it stopped in the next room. The fire itself burned for less than 20 minutes total because the neighbor saw it about 5 minutes after the person who accidently set it off had left. The fire station was on the next block. It was very quick. The firemen were very careful to explain to me exactly why the cats died, gases from the plastics (HCN was specificaly mentioned) and the temperature of the air (they estimate over 350F). While not enough to cause spontaneous combustion it is more than enough to cook the lungs. The air was hot enough that several plastic bags holding wargame materials within 1 ft of the floor were melted but the paper materials were not even scorched. This would further indicate that the damage was done by the temperature of the gas and not direct flame or smoke. > Also remember that computers have materials in them other than plastic, for > example lead and other heavy metals. Batteries and electrolytic capacitors > are also sources of many toxic materials. The leads on most components are an aluminum compound (my background is EE) and they typicaly don't start to burn until well over 800F, aluminum itself burns at 600. Since typical tip temperatures in soldering (lead eutecticts only - not indium composites) are in the 600 to 700 it is clear that pure aluminum would not be desirable. So they mix tin and other compounds with it. As to electrolytics, the liquid plastics that make up the dielectrics are very toxic and most certainly give off xCN compounds when burned. Just for the record, Lead (the element) is not generaly used in modern electronics except in a eutectic solder mix for connections. I have several computers that were burned in the fire and the majority of the solder on the pcb's was *not* evaporated. In most cases it wasn't even melted even though the case was completely gone (2 A1000's that work fine though the cases were completely destroyed by the temperature of the air, not fire). > In short, it's not the plastic that's toxic, it's all the other crap (ink, > dye, glue, solder, batteries, dielectric, etc) Malarky. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From adam at homeport.org Mon Jan 26 11:13:55 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:13:55 +0800 Subject: Video & cryptography... In-Reply-To: <199801261728.LAA27585@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801261856.NAA03348@homeport.org> Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating camera. One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. Adam Jim Choate wrote: | Hi, | | I was in a discussion with several people regarding the rate if improvement | of current video production equipment and how it would effect the veracity | of video images of all sorts in future legal cases. | | Is anyone aware of anybody working on a mechanism to digitaly sign video and | photographs (a cool app of stego I suspect)? This would alleviate a great | deal of mistrust for security video cams and such. What I had in mind was | the manufacturer puts a unique key in each machines rom's and when each | image comes in a signature of the image and the key is stored in the | interframe retraces that are normaly not shown (ala videotext). I asked a | couple of people in the biz that I know and it seemed a new concept to them. | | Just a thought... | | | ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | | ravage at ssz.com | | | 512-451-7087 | | |____________________________________________________________________| | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 11:48:59 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:48:59 +0800 Subject: Video & cryptography... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801261945.NAA28522@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Adam Shostack > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating > camera. > > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing email. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Jan 26 11:49:40 1998 From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:49:40 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Timothy May prefers to have sex with little kids > because his own penis is like that of a > three-year-old. > > /\**/\ > ( o_o )_) Timothy May > ,(u u ,), > {}{}{}{}{}{} > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From miner333 at dogbert.xroads.com Mon Jan 26 11:50:05 1998 From: miner333 at dogbert.xroads.com (miner) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:50:05 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? Message-ID: At 12:55 PM 1/26/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. Doesn't gennifer flowers has(had?) an audio tape of clinton asking her to deny their affair, there is no proof, etc.? I think a sequence of that audio and then the above statement played maybe 10 times on CNN would make a nice piece of news. ><<<< > >The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > > > From cyber at ibpinc.com Mon Jan 26 12:41:40 1998 From: cyber at ibpinc.com (Roger J Jones) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:41:40 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801262032.OAA05982@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual relations" in some statement recently? [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Clinton said this morning: >>>> I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time -- never. These allegations are false. <<<< >>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? Is it oral sex? -Declan <<<<< From Hua at teralogic-inc.com Mon Jan 26 12:43:19 1998 From: Hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:43:19 +0800 Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7D73@MVS2> Need help: Can anyone get to this URL? Ern -----Original Message----- From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz [SMTP:pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 4:20 PM To: cryptography at c2.net Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy As part of my recent effort to prepare a useful home page after 2 years of having instead a mini text adventure, I've finally got around to finishing off the web page containing the recent history of, and current state of, New Zealands crypto export policy as decided by several intelligence agencies and a supporting cast of bungling bureaucrats. This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ The page also contains links to a sizeable collection of never-before- published documents including correspondence with relevant government agencies, and media reports on the situation. If you're going to send me mail about this, please note that I'll be at Usenix in San Antonio for the next week, so it'll take awhile for me to reply. My PGP key's at the bottom of my home page if you need it. Peter. From dm0 at avana.net Mon Jan 26 12:50:47 1998 From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:50:47 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout In-Reply-To: <199801261956.NAA28599@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34CD2072.17C2@avana.net> Jim, I'm forwarding this to the list: Jim Choate wrote: > >From the news on CNN it's a done deal. DEC share holders are supposed to get > like $30/share and some sort of transfer of stocks... Oh, shit. Well, it seems as though Compaq has been pulling away from Intel lately (towards AMD), so perhaps this will be a GoodThing(tm), because otherwise DEC might turn out to be like Apple, except to die a much, much slower death. > Wonder if this means that Compaq will go head to head with MS/Intel now? I think so. Tim had mentioned that last he heard the Intel/DEC deal was dead. Perhaps this is what he was talking about. The thing is, how much about the Alpha does Intel know, and does this mean yet another round of lawsuits? I'm afraid that Intel may know enough now to make a 1GHz pentium, which would probably a ModeratelyBadThing(tm). I'd much prefer DEC to save mankind and lead them into the next millenium. > They will certainly have the experience and the market name to attempt it. > Last time I checked the Alpha was still a good deal faster than the Pentium. Yep, but for how much longer? Some elephants never die, and right now it looks like Intel can once again save MicroSoft's OS by hardware (ironically via DEC). NT bloats as the hardware gets faster. > Now since Compaq can use vertical marketing in regards to Alpha chips they > should be able to produce much more competitive machines price wise than DEC > was able to do. > > I have a fond place for DEC, a PDP/8e was the first machine I ever actualy > got to put my hands on. I miss the front panel switches sometimes (not often > though)... I'll aways have a fondness in my heart for installing RSTS from a TU-10 tapedrive and having to wait almost an hour for it to fall off the spindle before having to start all over... --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 13:11:52 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:11:52 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) Message-ID: <199801262104.PAA28864@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:46:58 -0800 > From: David Miller > Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout > Oh, shit. Well, it seems as though Compaq has been pulling away from Intel > lately (towards AMD), so perhaps this will be a GoodThing(tm), because > otherwise DEC might turn out to be like Apple, except to die a much, much > slower death. Had DEC not been bought this is exactly (IMO) what would have happened. > I'm afraid that Intel may know enough now to make a 1GHz pentium, which would > probably a ModeratelyBadThing(tm). I'd much prefer DEC to save mankind and > lead them into the next millenium. Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a year or so which in this business is a lot) and I don't see any reason to suspect that to stop. A comparison of base technology between Intel and DEC leads me to believe DEC is ahead a good margin. Intel won because of the price (DEC has historicaly been very expensive) and support of MS and IBM. (remember, nobody ever lost their job for buying IBM) > Yep, but for how much longer? Some elephants never die, and right now it > looks like Intel can once again save MicroSoft's OS by hardware (ironically > via DEC). NT bloats as the hardware gets faster. The only question I have is whether MS will continue to produce a HAL for WinNT 5.0 or whatever they call it. That could put a serious crimp in Compaq/DEC and would most definitely spawn a new round of lawsuites. Had you realized that when we break the 1GHz barrier it won't be safe to operate these machines without the cover on them? It'd be like breaking the inter-lock on your microwave. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 13:27:24 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:27:24 +0800 Subject: HCN & Plastics Message-ID: <199801262114.PAA28935@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Per [1], "There are many compounds in which carbon is bonded to Nitrogen. Hydrogen Cyanide, HCN, is commercialy prepared by the ... The compound is highly poisonous, low boiling liquid (boiling point, 26.5C) an dis used in the manufacture of plastics." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| [1] Chemistry, 6ed. Mortimer ISBN 0-534-05670-9 pp. 670 From declan at pathfinder.com Mon Jan 26 13:47:16 1998 From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:47:16 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not as far as I'm aware. Tho Gennifer Flowers said years ago that Clinton distinguishes between the two. You may be thinking of his "there is no sexual relationship" quip last Wed, which was duly dissected and analyzed; journalists remembered his artful dodge on the pot-smoking affair. I think we note in our (rather extensive) cover package in this week's magazine that Sen.Hatch and Speaker Gingrich also make this kind of distinction, at least according to women who claim they're in a position to know. Interestingly, they're going to be the fellows sitting in judgment if this goes to impeachment and trial... -Declan At 14:35 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual >relations" in some statement recently? > >[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. ><<<< > >>>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > ><<<<< From cyber at ibpinc.com Mon Jan 26 13:52:49 1998 From: cyber at ibpinc.com (Roger J Jones) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:52:49 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801262142.PAA09728@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba Bill? -----Original Message----- From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan at pathfinder.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 3:26 PM To: Roger J Jones Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? Not as far as I'm aware. Tho Gennifer Flowers said years ago that Clinton distinguishes between the two. You may be thinking of his "there is no sexual relationship" quip last Wed, which was duly dissected and analyzed; journalists remembered his artful dodge on the pot-smoking affair. I think we note in our (rather extensive) cover package in this week's magazine that Sen.Hatch and Speaker Gingrich also make this kind of distinction, at least according to women who claim they're in a position to know. Interestingly, they're going to be the fellows sitting in judgment if this goes to impeachment and trial... -Declan At 14:35 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual >relations" in some statement recently? > >[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. ><<<< > >>>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > ><<<<< From bmm at ns.minder.net Mon Jan 26 13:53:12 1998 From: bmm at ns.minder.net (BMM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:53:12 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801262104.PAA28864@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: The "Screamer 533" is currently shipping with a 533MHz Alpha. It is reviewed in this month's "Linux Journal". On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and > has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a From adam at homeport.org Mon Jan 26 14:11:07 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:11:07 +0800 Subject: Video & cryptography... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801261945.NAA28522@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801262202.RAA05102@homeport.org> Jim Choate wrote: | > From: Adam Shostack | > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... | > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) | | > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating | > camera. Dave points out that this was Schneier, Hall and Kelsey. | > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not | > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is | > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the | > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. | | Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature | process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the | characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing | email. It arises in a different context; with a signature on paper, you're generally indicating that you've read and consented to whats on the paper, not that you created it. The meaning of a camera signing a video still is not obvious to me. Is it intended to be 'this is what we saw through the lens?' or 'this is what really happened?' Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 14:16:18 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:16:18 +0800 Subject: Video & cryptography... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801262210.QAA29306@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Adam Shostack > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... (fwd) > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:02:53 -0500 (EST) > | Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature > | process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the > | characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing > | email. > > It arises in a different context; with a signature on paper, > you're generally indicating that you've read and consented to whats on > the paper, not that you created it. Isn't signing the document at least in theory a participatory creative act? If you don't sign it then it doesn't exist in the same context as if you do. Otherwise why have the signature? If I use a camera to sign a digital image am I not stating that I have viewed and consented to the image being a valid representation of what the lens saw? Seem quite similar to me. > The meaning of a camera signing a > video still is not obvious to me. Is it intended to be 'this is what > we saw through the lens?' or 'this is what really happened?' A mechanism to sign a digital image would provide some base protection against altering the image surreptitously, just as why you sign (and get a copy) of other documentary evidence. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 26 14:18:48 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:18:48 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout In-Reply-To: <199801261956.NAA28599@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 3:46 PM -0800 1/26/98, David Miller wrote: >Jim, I'm forwarding this to the list: > >Jim Choate wrote: >I think so. Tim had mentioned that last he heard the Intel/DEC deal was dead. >Perhaps this is what he was talking about. The thing is, how much about the This grossly distorts what I have said. I don't have time to sift through my posts on Intel and DEC, but I can't believe I said anything so simplistic as "the Intel/DEC deal is dead." (Or even "was dead," if we want to get into Clintonesque semantics.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From declan at vorlon.mit.edu Mon Jan 26 14:55:54 1998 From: declan at vorlon.mit.edu (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:55:54 +0800 Subject: Fear, loathing, and Bill Gates (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:14:51 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: Fear, loathing, and Bill Gates ******** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:42:08 -0500 From: Don Bx To: declan at well.com Subject: Re: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft Declan, I had a thought that I must share. In reflecting upon the genuine hatred and fear that people increasingly have for Bill Gates and Microsoft, it occurred to me that this hatred and fear have much in common with the hatred and fear stirred up a decade or so ago against Japan. In both cases, people proved their affection for Japanese goods by buying them, but they also grew leary of Japan after being barraged on the air-waves by idiot pundits who insinuated that Japan had some sort of recipe for taking over the American economy. Economic serfdom was near, avoidable only by trade restraints. And, of course, behind this fear-mongering were U.S. rent-seeking firms that sought to be relieved of having to compete as vigorously as otherwise. Needless to say, Japan was never a threat to "take over" the American economy, or to harm it in any way. The same is true of Microsoft (as long as it doesn't rely upon government favors). The fear and hatred in both cases -- against Japan in the 1980s and against MS today -- is illogical and uninformed. But it is, for MS, increasingly real. Don ********* Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:02:07 -0600 (CST) From: Mac Norton To: Declan McCullagh Cc: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Re: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft Let me see if i get this right:DOJ got guns , MS don't got guns, therefore I'm for MS. Is that it? Gee thee's some heavy intellectual discourse going on here, you betcha. MacN ********* Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:23:25 -0500 (EST) From: Donald Weightman To: declan at well.com Subject: Re: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft DB doesn't seem to know much about antitrust -- it *does* scrutinize strongarm tactics when wielded by someone with market power, as MSFT almost certainly has. The claim about harm to the economy is pretty far ranging for someone who seems to have no expertise in the field. As an example of where antitrust has done good, I'd point to the gov't-mandated restucturing of the electric utility industry in the '30's (actually administered by the SEC), which can be argued to have laid the groundwork for the huge productivity gains that industry made for the next three decades. Cheers Don ******** Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:59:05 EST From: JEisenach at aol.com To: declan at well.com Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft Now that Microsoft has given up its inexplicable defense of an indefensible licensing arrangement, it may be a lot easier for everyone involved to "calm down." Calming down should not, however, mean giving Microsoft carte blanche to use its undeniable market power to shape the future of the market for software. What it should mean is devising a workable policy for applying sound antitrust principles to the software business -- and that's a very big task. Many of Microsoft's arguments have merit. It is true, for example, that rapid innovation and low (physical) capital requirements for entry make its monopoly more vulnerable than it otherwise might be. However, other arguments Microsoft has offered -- for example, falling prices -- are pretty lame. Falling relative to WHAT? is the relevant question (look at industrial prices during the second industrial revolution -- which went through long periods of decline despite the emergence of the steel, oil, railroad, etc. trusts). As for Microsoft's "opponents," their case has a fair amount of appeal -- and it's not just visceral. Microsoft clearly has market power in the market for operating systems. Operating systems are required for personal computers to operate. Microsoft has exercised its market power pretty aggressively. And, it shows every intention of continuing to exercise its market power to delay innovations that threaten it and to extend its dominant position into future generations of technology. I don't think many people dispute anything in the previous paragraph. What people ARE concerned about, of course, is the potential for an overly intrusive and regulatory approach by government that could slow down innovation -- a policy built around the idea of protecting competitors rather than protecting competition. I frankly haven't seen Joel Klein say anything that suggests they are headed in this direction -- but I sure agree that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." Now that we all have a chance to "calm down," my hope is that a rational debate can emerge on the question of how the goals of antitrust law (i.e. a market free of impediments to competition, regardless of their source) can best be pursued in the software/computing business. And, I'm not prepared to concede that letting Microsoft exercise its market power without any restraints at all is the best we can do, even in this very imperfect world. To close with a plug: on February 5, The Progress & Freedom Foundation will be hosting a conference at the Four Seasons Hotel in DC on this very topic. Participants include a virtual "who's who" of the market-based "Chicago school" of antitrust economists and lawyers -- Nick Economides, Benjamin Klein, James C. Miller, Tim Muris, Dan Oliver, Bob Tollison, Robert Willig, etc. It's open to the public and reasonably priced. For information, see WWW.pff.org. ******** Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:02:15 -0500 From: Don Bx To: declan at well.com My comment about the DOJ having guns and Microsoft not has drawn fire. Fair enough. But I defend my point, which is this: Microsoft gets customers only by offering them deals that they are free to accept or reject. No coercion is involved. If you don't buy MS products, no one threatens you with imprisonment or violence. In contrast, when government regulates commerce (beyond the enforcement of contracts and traditional tort and criminal law) it dictates the terms of exchanges -- ultimately at the point of a gun -- that we cannot be certain are mutually advantageous. When A and B exchange voluntarily with each other, we can be sure that both A and B each believes himself to be better off as a consequence of the exchange. When a third party wielding the threat of coercive power prevents these voluntary exchanges -- or imposes contract terms that would not otherwise be part of these exchanges -- we cannot be certain that the exchanges yield as much mutual benefit as when these exchanges are voluntary. Government possesses the monopoly authority to initiate coercion. This is an awesome power that in a civil and free society should be used sparingly. It should not be used to prevent firms from engaging in peaceful and voluntary exchanges with adults. Don Boudreaux ******* -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mail at reba.com Mon Jan 26 14:55:56 1998 From: mail at reba.com (Mail) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:55:56 +0800 Subject: Reba Performs What If Tonight! Message-ID: <19980126163925.39547423.in@mail.marthastewart.com> Reba will perform "What If" tonight on the 25th American Music Awards! Reba is nominated for Favorite Female Country Artist! American Music Awards ABC -TV 8:00-11:00pm EST (Please check your local listings for times) RebaNews Copyright 1998 Starstruck Entertainment, All rights reserved. From declan at pathfinder.com Mon Jan 26 14:57:48 1998 From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:57:48 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not as far as I'm aware. Though today Clinton's attys asked the judge to speed up the trial to get it over with ASAP. I'm sure this will be leaked as necessary. Jones and Starr attorneys rank up there with the White House when it comes to planned leaks. -Declan At 15:45 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the >"distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba >Bill? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan at pathfinder.com] >Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 3:26 PM >To: Roger J Jones >Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? > > >Not as far as I'm aware. Tho Gennifer Flowers said years ago that Clinton >distinguishes between the two. > >You may be thinking of his "there is no sexual relationship" quip last Wed, >which was duly dissected and analyzed; journalists remembered his artful >dodge on the pot-smoking affair. > >I think we note in our (rather extensive) cover package in this week's >magazine that Sen.Hatch and Speaker Gingrich also make this kind of >distinction, at least according to women who claim they're in a position to >know. > >Interestingly, they're going to be the fellows sitting in judgment if this >goes to impeachment and trial... > >-Declan > > > >At 14:35 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >>Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual >>relations" in some statement recently? >> >>[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >>Clinton said this morning: >> >>>>>> >> I want you to listen to me. I'm >>going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >>woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >>-- never. These allegations are false. >><<<< >> >>>>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" >mean? >> >>Is it oral sex? >> >>-Declan >> >><<<<< From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 26 15:04:44 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:04:44 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) Message-ID: At 1:44 PM -0800 1/26/98, BMM wrote: >The "Screamer 533" is currently shipping with a 533MHz Alpha. It is >reviewed in this month's "Linux Journal". > > >On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > >> Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and >> has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a This is simply untrue, that DEC historically has been way ahead of Intel. The Alpha is a different type of chip. Anyone who has analyzed the past few years, the past decade, and the past couple of decades would have a hard time making the case that DEC has been ahead of Intel in the overall combination of design and manufacturing. As you should know, Intel will be making the Alpha chip, as its manufacturing capabilities are _overall_ in advance of DEC's. (Beware of comparing R&D or prototype fab capabilities with high volume fab capabilities...Intel has its own R&D fabs, currently developing 0.13 micron capabilities...DEC will not be participating in this move to sub-0.20 micron areas.) Many things go into the "who's ahead" calculation, besides just clock speed. Had that been the only significant issue, some of the aerospace companies with their VHSIC chips in the early 80s would have won. Or the Silicon on Sapphire (SOS) and GaAs processor chips...very fast, but very low-yielding. I've written a couple of long posts on this, and won't here. Of course, if I am wrong, and Intel is behind the other chip or computer companies in this overall ability, there are some mightly good investment opportunities, either in selling Intel short or in buying the stock of AMD, Compaq, Sun, etc. We can each put our money where our mouth is. So far, I've done awfully well holding the Intel stock I acquired in the 1970s. "The past is no guarantee of future behavior," as the disclaimor goes, but I have seen no reason to sell the bulk of my holdings. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From rhayden at orion.means.net Mon Jan 26 15:09:39 1998 From: rhayden at orion.means.net (Robert A. Hayden) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:09:39 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, BMM wrote: > The "Screamer 533" is currently shipping with a 533MHz Alpha. It is > reviewed in this month's "Linux Journal". We have purchased several Alpha based clone computers in the last 4 months that are all 533MHz machines. There is also available a 566MHz, a 600MHz, and an 800MHz, but for our applications the price is prohibitive. These are clone machines using a DEC Alpha motherboard and CPU. Very nice boxes :-) =-=-=-=-=-= Robert Hayden rhayden at means.net UIN: 3937211 IP Network Administrator http://rhayden.means.net MEANS Telcom (612) 230-4416 From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 15:19:30 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:19:30 +0800 Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) Message-ID: <199801262311.RAA29803@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:51:45 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) > This is simply untrue, that DEC historically has been way ahead of Intel. I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with Tim, since he obviously has some connection to Intel... > The Alpha is a different type of chip. Anyone who has analyzed the past few > years, the past decade, and the past couple of decades would have a hard > time making the case that DEC has been ahead of Intel in the overall > combination of design and manufacturing. The bottem line is they are both Von Neumann architectures and can be reduced to a single bit Turing machine. As a result they *most* certainly can be compaired. I have owned Intel and DEC machines since the late 70's. I started out on a DEC PDP 8e in 1976 a friend game me when I was in high school and bought a S-100 Intel 8080 machine about a year later. Since that time I have owned 80186, 80286, 80836, 80486, and Pentium machines as well as PDP 11/03, PDP 11/23, PDP 11/34, & MicroVax II. Given a comparison by date the DEC machines have had a higher clock frequency and generaly been a generation or so ahead of Intel in the capabilities of the hardware. Further, the operating system architectures available on the hardware, until the last 6-8 years anyway, also went to DEC when it came to scalability and usability. The fact that NT was available on both the Intel and Alpha architectures pretty much at the same time makes any further comparison moot except for market share (which I alluded to the main forces in an earlier post). Unix was available on the DEC architectures LONG (what, 20 years?) before it every even thought about being put on a Intel cpu. > As you should know, Intel will be making the Alpha chip, as its > manufacturing capabilities are _overall_ in advance of DEC's. (Beware of Then why isn't the Intel cranking at 500MHz now like the Alpha? Why is every market comparison for the chips shows the DEC staying ahead of the Intel in base clock frequency (I won't even get into architecture efficiencies) for the next 5-8 years? > capabilities...Intel has its own R&D fabs, currently developing 0.13 micron > capabilities...DEC will not be participating in this move to sub-0.20 > micron areas.) I bet now that Compaq has given them the sorts of resources they had to go head to head with IBM from the late 60's to the early 80's that could change pretty quickly, even considering the multi-billion dollar start-up costs of modern fabs. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Jan 26 15:19:40 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:19:40 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4ymXJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Declan McCullagh writes: > > Clinton said this morning: > > >>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm > going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that > woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time > -- never. These allegations are false. > <<<< > > The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > > Is it oral sex? > > -Declan > > I fail to see any crypto-relevance in this question, but Mr. Clinton has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't consider getting a blow job to be sexual relations. As for his telling anybody to lie, hmm... we have his deposition where he admitted having sex with Gennifer Flowers (sp?), and we have a taped phone call where he asked her to deny it. Clinton has as much credibility as Semeer Parekh, Sandy Sandfart, and the rest of the C2Net gang. (Gotta say something cryptorelevant :-) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From eb at comsec.com Mon Jan 26 15:36:21 1998 From: eb at comsec.com (Eric Blossom) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:36:21 +0800 Subject: "Privacy on the Line" Message-ID: <199801262255.OAA08550@comsec.com> I'm about half way through Diffie and Landau's new book, Privacy on the Line: The Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption and have found it quite interesting and entertaining. Contents 1. Introduction 2. Cryptography 3. Cryptography and Public Policy 4. National Security 5. Law Enforcement 6. Privacy: Protections and Threats 7. Wiretapping 8. Communications: The Current Scene 9: Cryptography: The Current Scene 10: Conclusion It's 342 pages including a great section of notes. Computer Literacy has it for $22.50. ISBN 0-262-04167-7 mail order: 408-435-0744 ObWoMD: "8. (p. 82) Distinguishing nuclear explosions from other events, such as large lightning bolts or explosions of meteors in the atmosphere, is not easy. The satellite reacts less to the total energy of the blast than to the form of the flash. Nuclear explosions have a characteristic two-humped flash caused by gamma ray induced formation of nitrogen pentoxide (N2O5). The time between humps is called the "bhang metre" and is characteristic of the type of weapon." Eric From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 15:46:27 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:46:27 +0800 Subject: Processor Architecture Analysis - Reference Message-ID: <199801262340.RAA29988@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, If you're interested in the basic technology used in many of the current and proposed processor architectures I strongly recommend the following: Advanced Computer Architectures: A design space approach S. Sima, T. Fountain, P. Kacsuk ISBN 0-201-42291-3 ~$50.00 It was published in 1997 and covers various analysis of many of todays CPU's (unfortunately it doesn't do the Alpha) and discusses means to get realistic comparisons between them. It also covers some of the white paper architectures that have come out in the last 3-4 years on proposed architecture upgrades and alternatives. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 15:58:06 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:58:06 +0800 Subject: Signing video... Message-ID: <199801262346.RAA30042@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I was exchangin idea with a couple of members off-list and an idea came to me about how to time stamp the frames. It would require a minor modification to the WWV transmission but it wouldn't be much. Have the WWV transmitters sign each 'tick' of the clock and have a WWV receiver in the vcr. This would allow time stamping the frame with a signed reference that could be checked. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From brianbr at together.net Mon Jan 26 16:12:31 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:12:31 +0800 Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy Message-ID: <199801262347.SAA24665@mx02.together.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/26/98 3:30 PM, Ernest Hua (Hua at teralogic-inc.com) passed this wisdom: >Need help: Can anyone get to this URL? > >Ern > [snip] > > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ > I got to it with no problems on first try from East Coast USA. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNM0glz7r4fUXwraZAQFRGQf9F4R1EhPLwsSP84l5QcKk6KMhU341ox36 PincU6VSpYR8bq7CMSMh7G5f/H+3MkXNpnStGGI2H/jr/ggj+VeFtAZE/8WG5Mvw RbzbHxXKxq5one7kNc8qWMtWyd5vh6T+WUcyotUdvVBM5LAwP6sgv60vRsslbAYq 8jx4CMcWi8AM49vZknWAVQ+0QKWXthD5ltMFyLK8racRmIccFCsn//hDY0m7P+4I fbA3uKY5ESnJA5dUMCdree9tqB55R8iW/BdSKodemiO56FdClVOBdynVBFrchmGr zauO82EwceXiG3m2R44Zd7XPp0OfupzkB5+qZgWTeUR87SCnlzvrhw== =eeTo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." -- Alvin Toffler From joswald at rpkusa.com Mon Jan 26 17:17:06 1998 From: joswald at rpkusa.com (Jack Oswald) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:17:06 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <01BD2A7C.342CBB60@joswald@rpkusa.com> Bill - The technology that we export as part of RPK InvisiMail, is world-class strong crypto. Key size options are 607 bits and 1279. The math behind the system is based on the same as that of D-H. There is no snake oil. There was no intentional or unintentional attempt to mislead any government authority. We also did not request an export license, because there is no need to do so in New Zealand as long as the export is by means of the Internet. Peter G. knows this as well. The story may be different for physical export on disk, disc or tape, although we cannot concur with Peter's personal experience. Our experience is that we get pretty good treatment from the NZ authorities. We also may use a different approach. I have often heard that you can often get a better response when using honey than vinegar. Therein may explain differences in our respective experiences. I have personally met with the Minister of Trade for New Zealand. His views and those of his staff seemed to be acceptable to us and have not imposed any undue restrictions of our business or our ability to operate. Jack Oswald President and CEO RPK Fast Public Key Encryption RPK New Zealand Ltd. 4750 Capitola Road Capitola, CA 95010 joswald at rpkusa.com www.rpk.co.nz www.InvisiMail.com +1 408.479.7874 phone +1 408.479.1409 fax +1 800.475.4509 pager -----Original Message----- From: Bill Stewart [SMTP:bill.stewart at pobox.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 5:44 PM To: RPK New Zealand Ltd; cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Cc: scataldi at earthlink.net Subject: Re: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 I was amused to receive two mail messages back-to-back, one from Peter Gutmann talking about New Zealand having one of the strictest formal export controls in the world, and one from RPK New Zealand talking about how their encryption product is not export-controlled because it's from NZ, not the US, and how their RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine is the strongest crypto in the world. Either they haven't bothered asking for export permission, or they asked in such a way that the export bureaucrats didn't notice it was crypto and regulated by their crypto export preventers, or their crypto somehow falls through the cracks, e.g. by using an algorithm with public keys shorter than 512 bits (works for ECC, not RSA) and private keys shorter than 40 bits (or 41 on a good day), or perhaps passes the "snake oil test" for export permission. I suppose it's possible that the NZ Export Bureaucrats have lightened up since Peter's last dealings with them, but it's not likely. >--------------- The mail, referencing www.invisimail.com >RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. >has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security >application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). >The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in >the world. Since it was built outside the United States, >it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. >RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type >to setup and use which makes it quite unique. ========= From Peter Gutmann's web page This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ ============================== Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Jan 26 18:00:47 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:00:47 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801262142.PAA09728@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Message-ID: "Roger J Jones" writes: > > Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the > "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba > Bill? > Can you spell "curvature"? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From declan at well.com Mon Jan 26 18:05:14 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:05:14 +0800 Subject: U.S. crypto czar's travel records revealed Message-ID: >From EPIC newsletter ======================================================================= [3] EPIC Obtains U.S. Crypto Czar's Travel Records ======================================================================= Following a year-long legal battle, EPIC has obtained over 500 pages of materials from the U.S. State Department on the international travels of David Aaron, the former U.S. Envoy for Cryptography. Aaron also served as U.S. Ambassador to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development when the OECD was developing its encryption policy guidelines. The released documents show Ambassador Aaron made frequent trips around the world lobbying for international adoption of key escrow encryption. He visited Australia, Belgium (both the European Union & Belgian governments), Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. The documents also indicate that he went to South Africa, and met with the counselor of the Latvian embassy in Paris and with Russian Finance Ministry officials. Even before Aaron was appointed as President Clinton's "Special Envoy for Cryptography," U.S. State Department messages indicate that the United States was making overtures to various countries via American embassies around the world. These include the diplomatic posts in Canberra, London, Tokyo, Ottawa, Tel Aviv, Paris, Bonn, The Hague and Moscow. One message to these foreign posts announced the revised U.S. cryptography export policy (the key recovery within two years or "no export" rule). The public announcement of that policy was made on October 1, 1996. Aaron apparently was not always greeted warmly in his travels. In Japan, the government requested that the meetings be kept secret and that the press not be informed. Even the U.S. Embassy in Japan was less than enthusiastic -- the embassy suggested that Aaron and his delegation could take the airport bus to their hotel rather than be picked up by an embassy driver. From schear at lvdi.net Mon Jan 26 18:12:56 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:12:56 +0800 Subject: Cylink and Organized Crime? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980126174215.007173cc@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: I worked at Cylink as Manager of Business Development from April 1992 - April 1994. 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Shinobu Oe, professor emeritus of contemporary history at Ibaraki University, told Reuters he visited the North Korean port of Wonsan, where the vessel is docked, on October 29. "As far as I know the North Koreans have been showing the ship to Japanese tourists since August," Oe said. "They tell tourists it's the Pueblo." The capture of the Pueblo and its crew by North Korean patrol boats off Wonsan in January 1968 held the administration of then-U.S. President Lyndon Johnson at bay for months. Japan's Asahi newspaper Monday published a photograph Oe took of the ship, which showed it bristling with antennae and wires. The professor said he could only view the ship from the dock. "It sure looks like the Pueblo," said a U.S. embassy naval attache in Tokyo who saw the photograph. Oe said North Koreans at the port gave no information about the ship or how it had been used for the past 30 years. Attracting foreign currency has become increasingly important to North Korea after years of economic decline and failed harvests that have left the isolated Stalinist nation struggling to feed its people. The standoff prompted by Pyongyang's seizure of the Pueblo 30 years ago led to a U.S. state of naval alert rivalling the Cuban missile crisis in 1963. The crew was finally released in December 1968, but the ship stayed in North Korean hands. Pyongyang portrayed the incident as a huge blow to the prestige of the U.S. superpower, which was then in the throes of the controversial Vietnam War. == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From tomw at netscape.com Mon Jan 26 19:34:56 1998 From: tomw at netscape.com (Tom Weinstein) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:34:56 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CD53FD.363A9C8C@netscape.com> Markus Kuhn wrote: > root wrote on 1998-01-23 01:29 UTC: > >> [Press Releases] >> http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 >> >> NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE >> CODE AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET > > Excellent! > > Finally mainstream software companies start to understand that security > critical software has to be provided to the customer in full compilable > source code to allow independent security evaluation. Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals outside the US to replace the missing pieces. -- What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein for the novice. You must understand Tao before | tomw at netscape.com transcending structure. -- The Tao of Programming | From foggy at gilligan.netisle.net Mon Jan 26 19:36:21 1998 From: foggy at gilligan.netisle.net (Gary Harland) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:36:21 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton Dodge? Message-ID: >Clinton said this morning: > >>>> >I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. ><<<< > >The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" >mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan It seems to be some sort of 'southern thing'. Of course a good Catholic boy from Detroit would never swallow (opps!) a sleezy end-run around the moral goal-posts of life like that. I can think of no better authority to invoke than Kinky Friedman, the immortal bard of Kerrville, Texas and notorious ring-leader of the band known as "The Texas Jewboys" ( famous for such country & western hits as "They Don't Make Jews Like Jesus Anymore", "I'm Proud To Be An Asshole From El Paso", "The Ballad of Charles Whitman", and many others - all available on his recently released CD). Hit it Kinky!... Waitret, Please, Waitret (Kinky Friedman, Major Boles, Roscoe West) Well, I pulled into Dallat on a cold December day Bought coffee and a doughnut at the Greasy Spoon Cafe, Spied me a pretty young waitret standing by her tray, But she couldnt believe her sweet young ears when the waitret heard me say: Oh, waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate, Eatin aint cheatin, Lord it aint no disgrace. Oh, bring me a Lone Star, make it, make it a case Waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate. Well, I walked up to the jukebox feeling kind of mean, The waitret said, Hey, stupid, thats a, thats a cigarette machine! Well, look-a here, young waitret, would you care to make a bet, And if that there aint a jukebox, you can smoke my cigarette! Oh, waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate, Eatin aint cheatin, Lord it aint no disgrace. Oh, bring me a Lone Star, make it, make it a case And waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate. Youre the prettiest thing in Dallat, is Dallat your home ? No, I come all the way from Houton and I feel so all alone. I used to live in Autin then I moved up to big D In hopes to get my big break on national TV. Oh, waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate, Eatin aint cheatin, Lord it aint no disgrace. Oh, bring me a Lone Star, make it, make it a case Waitret, waitret, waitret, waitret, sit down on my fate. It's even funnier with the music of course. Kinky Friedman (http://www.kinkyfriedman.com) was kind of a 70's cult figure. He now writes mystery novels. According to Willie Nelson, ...the best whodunit writer to come along since Dashiell What's-his-name." As for Clinton, what can I say? What a pathetic, third-rate dickhead. Somebody flush the White House. It's starting to stink. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy at netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From schear at lvdi.net Mon Jan 26 19:46:40 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:46:40 +0800 Subject: Signing video... Message-ID: >Hi, > >I was exchangin idea with a couple of members off-list and an idea came to >me about how to time stamp the frames. It would require a minor modification >to the WWV transmission but it wouldn't be much. Have the WWV transmitters >sign each 'tick' of the clock and have a WWV receiver in the vcr. This would >allow time stamping the frame with a signed reference that could be checked. Although this could reduce the cost and power consumption in the camera how does this guarantee that the signature information wasn't inserted later. With today's excellent digital postprocessing it could be very hard to detect. --Steve From blancw at cnw.com Mon Jan 26 20:25:31 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:25:31 +0800 Subject: Executing Kaczynski Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127201813.008249e0@cnw.com> Vladimir Ze Cornflake inquired of TCM: >> Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected >>for a while as being the Unabomber. > >whoa, are you being facetious here or what? would you care to elaborate >on that little tidbit? ................................................. It was TCM himself. (myself, I speculated it was Detweiler.) .. Blanc From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Mon Jan 26 21:04:28 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:04:28 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <199801241849.NAA17756@myriad> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > Anonymous wrote: > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > [snip] > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > Um, salt water explodes? From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 21:19:42 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:19:42 +0800 Subject: Signing video... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801270516.XAA31427@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:43:17 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Signing video... > >I was exchangin idea with a couple of members off-list and an idea came to > >me about how to time stamp the frames. It would require a minor modification > >to the WWV transmission but it wouldn't be much. Have the WWV transmitters > >sign each 'tick' of the clock and have a WWV receiver in the vcr. This would > >allow time stamping the frame with a signed reference that could be checked. > > Although this could reduce the cost and power consumption in the camera how > does this guarantee that the signature information wasn't inserted later. > With today's excellent digital postprocessing it could be very hard to > detect. The fact that it's hard is what makes it worth doing in some environments. The goal is to provide a reasonable doubt as to the validity of the picture on the tape. Don't know about cost and power consumption...but this is where I'm at on this issue now, by no means is it fully worked out: The actual signal on the tape can be mapped to a specific head mechanism using the same sorts of technology that is used to identify specific cell phones from the rf signature. So we can do an analysis of the signal and verify if a given camera striped the tape. Hysterisis, amplifier slew rates, power spectrum analysis, etc. The pattern of wow and flutter of any motor and drive mechanism is unique and can also be mapped to a specific mechanism. This wow and flutter creates regular and repeatable irregularities in the pattern on the tape. This allows us to match a drive mechanism to a specific program on a tape. Irregularities in the drive wheel will cause specific pattern in the way the stripes are laid down (ie wiggles in the same place each time that part of the wheel comes around). Irregularities in the syncronizing clocks in the tape mechanism can be traced to particular oscillators (usualy slew rate as a function of frequency stability). By signing the frames with a signed time reference we can verify which clock was used, though we can't verify that it wasn't recorded and played back at a later time. We can at least verify the tape wasn't stiped prior to the claimed time. For security applications this could be quite useful. So if we have a fully analog system there are several means to test the various parts of the systems to verify source veracity. We can also test the tape recording mechanism even on a digital or hybrid system. So let's look at hybrid systems where the video signal is source digital or is digitized in the camera (for special effects, etc.). If a frame isn't signed we don't trust it. So we have a camera with a ROM that has a signature. We could replace the code in the rom and keep the signature. If the owner doesn't replace the ROM prior to testing then we can easily verify the ROM and it's signature don't match. We don't even need the signature to do this, simple comparison between the rom that should be there versus the one that is present is enough. If they do replace the ROM then we have a frame that is signed but potentialy modified prior to the d/a conversion process. The question is can we in fact identify such non-linear editing? If the answer is no then there is a clear reason to suspect the validity of any video source that went through any sort of digital processing. I suspect the answer is no since this question is equivalent to signing a document that was modified prior to the signature being placed on it. The signature process only signs what was fed into the algorithm and can't detect changes to the document prior to the signing. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 22:02:15 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:02:15 +0800 Subject: Organic Chemistry Lab Safety Message-ID: <199801270555.XAA31566@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, The question was asked why mixing acids and bases are hazardous. Please note number 5 below. When an acid and base are mixed you get water and a salt. When water is added to acid (ie pouring a base into an acid) the heat of reaction can cause the water to get quite hot and cause the chemicals to splatter upon you. The idea is you want the acid to disolve in the water and not the other way around. Goggles, bibs, and all other reasonable safety precautions should always be used. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.ems.uwplatt.edu/sci/chem/saf/safetyor.htm > ORGANIC CHEMISTRY LABORATORY SAFETY RULES > > * 1. Maintain a business-like attitude. Be prepared! Do not attempt > unauthorized experiments. > * 2. Wear safety goggles (eye protection) at all times when in the > laboratory. This is a departmental and state regulation. Do not > eat or drink in the lab or bring food or drink into the lab. > * 3. Know the location and use of the nearest fire extinguisher, > nearest First Aid kit, nearest eye wash station, nearest safety > shower, and nearest exit designated for evacuation. Know the > location of the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) and know that > you have access to them. Know the NFPA (National Fire Protection > Association) Hazardous Material Classification Codes. > * 4. Report any accident, even minor injuries, to the instructor at > once. > * 5. When diluting acids, pour acid slowly and carefully into the > water with constant stirring. Use Pyrex and Kimax glassware and > NEVER add water to acid. Rinse acid or base Penny-Head stoppered > bottles under the faucet after each use. > * > 6. In the event that acid, base, or any corrosive liquid is spilled on > your person: > a) Flush immediately with running water at the sink. Call for > instructor. > b) Rinse area with 5% sodium bicarbonate solution. > c) Wash area with soap and water, blot dry with clean towel or > handkerchief. > d) Follow direction of lab supervisor. Check MSDS if you have > questions. > * 7. In case of an organic chemical spilled on your person, flush > with water, wash with soap, rinse with water, rinse with ethyl > alcohol, wash with soap, and rinse with water. Pat dry. Wash hands > before and after visiting toilet. Check MSDS if you have > questions. > * 8. Never taste chemicals or solutions. Minimize the inhalation of > organic vapors by using the smallest amounts of materials and > utilizing the hood as much as possible. Check MSDS if you have > questions. > * 9. Many organic compounds are either carcinogenic, mutagenic, > and/or teratogenic. Generally avoid aromatic amines and nitroso > compounds. Review the document on Chemical Exposure in Organic > Chemistry. Check the MSDS if you are not adequately aware of the > compound's properties. > * 10. In case of cuts or punctures, flush with running water, and > call for instructor or see stock room attendant on third floor for > First Aid. All punctures should be seen by the university nurse or > a physician! > * 11. Dispose of all wastes properly. Read labels on bottles! Keep > bench and floor clean. > * 12. Before leaving the laboratory, be sure that the water, steam, > heaters, and gas cocks are shut off. > > | Chemistry Home | UW-Madison Safety | sundin at uwplatt.edu | > > > Document Last Modified: August 26, 1997 > Copyright � 1998, University of Wisconsin - Platteville > ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 22:05:16 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:05:16 +0800 Subject: Computer makers speed up Internet [CNN] Message-ID: <199801270559.XAA31665@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > COMPUTER, PHONE COMPANIES SEEK TO SPEED INTERNET > > graphic January 26, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:46 p.m. EST (0246 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Top computer firms Compaq, Intel and Microsoft > and leading telephone and networking companies Monday announced an > alliance to promote high-speed Internet links over ordinary phone > lines. > > Telephone companies banded together and sought support from the > high-tech giants to ward off a competing scheme for faster Internet > connections relying on cable television wires. > > The phone group said it will offer the International > Telecommunications Union, which sets industry standards, a uniform > method of connecting to the Internet using "asymmetric digital > subscriber line" technology, or ADSL. Equipment makers plan to offer > products based on the standard. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 26 22:13:09 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:13:09 +0800 Subject: Intel drops prices [CNN] Message-ID: <199801270558.XAA31625@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Company cuts price tag of older models > by up to 51 percent > > January 26, 1998: 9:14 p.m. ET > > > Intel > More related sites... SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Semiconductor giant > Intel Corp. Monday unveiled its fastest version of the Pentium II > processor for desktop computers, servers and workstations and cut > prices on older chips by up to 51 percent. > [INLINE] Several major PC makers introduced new PCs, servers and > workstations around the new Pentium II chip, which runs at 333 > megahertz, and is priced at $721 each, in units of 1,000. > [INLINE] Hewlett-Packard Co., Packard Bell NEC Inc. and Gateway 2000 > Inc. unveiled new computers using the 333-megahertz processor on > Monday, some with prices starting at around $2,800. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From kent at songbird.com Mon Jan 26 22:29:05 1998 From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:29:05 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <199801241849.NAA17756@myriad> Message-ID: <19980126222308.60967@songbird.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 09:36:59AM -0500, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? Well, if it was 40 grams of NaOH and 36.5 grams of HCl, then you would have 18 grams of water and 58.5 grams of NaCl. With 1g HCl to .5g NaOH, well, you have an acidic, salty, mess. However, HCl is a gas at STP, and NaOH is a solid... Basically, it's an incredibly poorly worded question. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Jan 26 23:58:00 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:58:00 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 In-Reply-To: <01BD2A7C.342CBB60@joswald@rpkusa.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127005058.0087ea90@popd.ix.netcom.com> Thanks for an interesting perspective on working with NZ's export bureaucrats. At 04:59 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Jack Oswald wrote: >Bill - The technology that we export as part of RPK InvisiMail, is >world-class strong crypto. Key size options are 607 bits and 1279. The >math behind the system is based on the same as that of D-H. There is no >snake oil. There was no intentional or unintentional attempt to mislead >any government authority. We also did not request an export license, >because there is no need to do so in New Zealand as long as the export is >by means of the Internet. Peter G. knows this as well. The story may be >different for physical export on disk, disc or tape, although we cannot >concur with Peter's personal experience. Our experience is that we get >pretty good treatment from the NZ authorities. We also may use a different >approach. I have often heard that you can often get a better response when >using honey than vinegar. Therein may explain differences in our Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From k0zm0z at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 16:29:03 1998 From: k0zm0z at yahoo.com (kozmo killah) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:29:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Response to ticket 012398-6918-403 Message-ID: <19980128002852.16393.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1374 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mall at daltek.net Tue Jan 27 16:36:17 1998 From: mall at daltek.net (mall at daltek.net) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:36:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Just a Reminder... Message-ID: <199801272330.RAA04763@cresta.daltek.net> * * * * You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person obviously interested in this subject based upon your previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web sites. If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology as a responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line. You will be automatically excluded from future e-mailings. Thank you for your consideration and help in making the Internet spam-free. * * * * At your request, we recently sent you our International Shopping Mall Complex banner rates for your business. The following is an update on categories available, and several other new options available to fit your expansion plans and budget. Please take a look and see what would work best for you. We do have a 25% off special introductory offer on our Mini- Mirror Store Program, details below. PLUS HERE IS SOME EXCITING NEWS..a cutting edge option to be offered shortly to our clients. Right now, we are working on adding a program to the Malls that will enable ONLINE PURCHASES TO BE CHARGED TO THE CUSTOMERS' TELEPHONE BILL. This presents unlimited possibilities for impulse buying, no forms, just click a button... Right now, it can be used for items like downloading software, and electronic reports and books...But Here is the Big News..it will soon be able to work for hard goods!!..Just think about the opportunities here. We will be sending out a full report on this in the next week or two in our Client Newsletter. 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This is obviously by quote as it depends on how many products, etc. It includes an online order form. Basic starts at $795.00. (includes all four locations). To receive details on any of the above options, please just fill out the following and email back. ========================== I would like information on the Exclusive Banner Ads. My Product/Service Category is:_____________________ Categories: Apparel/Accessories, Arts/Crafts/Antiques, Books/Education, Collectibles, Home/Garden/Pets, Food, Computer, Cosmetics/Personal Care, Toys/Games/Hobbies, Health/Fitness, Wholesale/Industrial, Gifts, Business/Finance, Jewelry, Auto/Boats, Audio/Music/Videos. SPORTS, TRAVEL, FLOWERS, JEWELRY - ALL FOUR LOCATIONS ARE SOLD OUT APPAREL, COMPUTER, HEALTH, COSMETICS...3 each still available. This applies to banners only of course, you can still have mirror sites in any category. My http:// is _______________________________ ========================== I would like a quote on an: Original Store ( ) Full Mirror ( ) My Site Address is: http://_________________________ ======================== I am interested in the 25% OFF mini-mirrors SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER, (Note: good thru February 1, 1998 only) My site address is: http://_________________________ Note: We do not accepted x-rated sites. ALSO PLEASE CHECK HERE IF YOU WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON THE OPTION MENTIONED IN PARAGRAPH THREE. ( ) Thank you for your interest. ================================================================ From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 27 04:29:52 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:29:52 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801271220.NAA29561@basement.replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM, Noted Penis Expert, wrote: > > "Roger J Jones" writes: > > > > Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the > > "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba > > Bill? > > > Can you spell "curvature"? It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be all that extensive taste-testing... - Frondeur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNM3QsFqnO6WRZ1UEEQIrVACfbPo6boIC96jtFuuZaqYGcAjYmOAAn1+W yk5WfpYk31L3iqqbkwXiN+hE =ElxL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 27 05:48:56 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:56 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rabid Wombat writes: > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under norma > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > Um, salt water explodes? Where is Jim Bell when we need him? (Hell, where's Lorena Bobbt when we need her?) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From mail at vipul.net Tue Jan 27 05:50:33 1998 From: mail at vipul.net (Vipul Ved Prakash) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:50:33 +0800 Subject: Paper withdraws story of Clinton sex 'witness' [fwd - infobeat] Message-ID: <199801271842.SAA08537@fountainhead.net> *** Paper withdraws story of Clinton sex 'witness' The Dallas Morning News withdrew its Internet report Tuesday that a Secret Service agent was ready to testify seeing President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky in a compromising situation. The Dallas paper took the report off its online edition and posted a statement saying its source for the story had told them his information was wrong. The paper had carried a front page report on its electronic Web site saying the agent had spoken with independent counsel Kenneth Starr's staff and was ready to testify as a government witness in the sex scandal engulfing the White House. But within 4 hours the paper had pulled the report and replaced it with a statement which said "the source for the story, a longtime Washington lawyer familiar with the case, later said the information provided for that report was inaccurate. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7164923-842 Maryland officials say Tripp may have broken law, See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7159919-bc9 -- #!/usr/bin/perl eval unpack u,'J)",](DIU Dear NetCenter Member: Thank you for requesting information about VeriSign Digital IDs from Netscape's Netcenter. A VeriSign Digital ID provides a means of proving your identity in electronic transactions, much like a driver license or a passport does in face-to-face interactions. By using your Verisign Digital ID you can: *Sign your e-mail. Recipients are assured that the information they receive is from you, and hasn't been altered in any way by outside tampering. *Encrypt and decrypt e-mail. This assures no one except the intended recipient can view its contents. In addition: VeriSign's new public directory is your "white pages" for Digital IDs. Look up anyone's Digital ID. Then send and receive signed and encrypted e-mail -- all from within Netscape Messenger. (If you use another email package you can still easily access the directory from VeriSign's web site.) Your browser will automatically store your Digital ID and present it for you at participating sites. This means no longer remembering multiple passwords to gain access to these sites. You automatically receive the peace-of-mind of US $1,000 NetSure(sm) protection against economic loss caused by corruption, loss or misuse of your Digital ID (not available with free trial ID). 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From members at feedme.org Tue Jan 27 06:12:55 1998 From: members at feedme.org (feedME) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:12:55 +0800 Subject: feedME account Message-ID: <199801271349.IAA17868@thunder.ica.net> ----------------------------------------------------------- feedME - the world's easiest newsreader http://www.feedME.org ----------------------------------------------------------- Your Username is: cypherpunks Your Password is: kimkdqof If you have any problems, queries or suggestions please email: admin at feedme.org You should change your password as soon as possible (if you haven't already done so), the address for changing it is: http://www.feedme.org/changepass.html Remember that we don't allow anyone to SPAM through feedME, nor do we let people post any form of commerical or web-site advertisements - if you are unclear always mail admin. Regards, Michael Bennett Creator of feedME From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Tue Jan 27 06:36:41 1998 From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:36:41 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Rabid Wombat writes: [...] > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under norma > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > Where is Jim Bell when we need him? The question depeands on what is normal circumstances? Noramly HCl is suppled dissolved in warter, where it will react quite safly with NaOH to create salt warter. However gassius HCl is a diffrent beast entirly, but this is rare in a high school enviroment. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM3ZKaQK0ynCmdStAQHTpwP/f8A4gxFNgA8LjKp7dc74DwQ1P+wota1v 0t476LJRpJh+iJporLYtyHVRwpwHv9vaxID8Y0hjMYQkgDp++oWDIgqA4m2/JV1V WhXizo5Q97A0CnoMPCbLgOYb0VxXbbhFmdJ9MtwofOSaH8hBmtn0o9EOMTBCNgRo eaCQkNxqMtk= =5b8J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 27 07:03:15 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:03:15 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <34CD53FD.363A9C8C@netscape.com> Message-ID: <199801271453.PAA17516@basement.replay.com> At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: >Markus Kuhn wrote: >> root wrote on 1998-01-23 01:29 UTC: >> >>> [Press Releases] >>> http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 >>> >>> NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE >>> CODE AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET >> > >Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > >Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >outside the US to replace the missing pieces. Or you can print those sections in a book and let some enterprising foreigners OCR scan them. From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 27 08:35:00 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:35:00 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801271220.NAA29561@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <8g3yJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM, Noted Penis Expert, wrote: > > > > "Roger J Jones" writes: > > > > > > Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed > the > > > "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove > its Bubba > > > Bill? > > > > > Can you spell "curvature"? > > It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all > about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be > all that extensive taste-testing... > > - Frondeur Bobbi Inman is a cocksucker. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From eureka at eureka.abc-web.com Wed Jan 28 01:19:19 1998 From: eureka at eureka.abc-web.com (eureka at eureka.abc-web.com) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:19:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Eureka! 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TRANSLATIONS As well as English you can now choose any of these languages DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm ESPA�OL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm FRAN�AIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm TODAY'S FREE PIX Pic 1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?280 Pic 2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?281 Pic 3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?282 Pic 4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?283 Pic 5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?284 Pic 6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?285 Pic 7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?286 Pic 8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?287 Pic 9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?288 Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?289 ============================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US. ============================================================ From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 09:41:51 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:41:51 +0800 Subject: Physical Meet: Feb. 21 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801271736.LAA00348@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:28:34 -0600 > From: "Troy A. Bollinger" > Subject: Re: Physical Meet: Feb. 21 > Quoting Jim Choate (ravage at ssz.com): > > > > Ok, looks like the magic day is Saturday Feb. 21, 1998 from 6-7pm. > > > > So, now all we need is a place... > > > > Flipnotics worked last time. > > I'd like to suggest that everyone bring a printout of their PGP > fingerprint so we can sign each other's keys. I think I can make this one. I don't have any interest in signing or being signed however, thanks for the offer. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu Tue Jan 27 10:10:29 1998 From: jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu (John Blair) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:10:29 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <8g3yJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Message-ID: <199801271757.LAA14080@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- dlv at bwalk.dm.com said: >> It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all >> about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be >> all that extensive taste-testing... >> >> - Frondeur > Bobbi Inman is a cocksucker. Ahh... I remember now why I re-subscribed to Cypherpunks. It was for all of the intelligent discussion that goes on here. At least back in the days of Detweiler the character assassination was creative and often fun to read. Can you please keep childish shots like this in private e-mail? It has no place in this mailing list. -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair at uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM4gCgJjTpK3AXhBAQHC/QQArCwnCHSCzgmUGjGkGtAEtkwnsiq8rbF8 a8Ov/LKuFJslK8osLKawD+38nnY9Y3K4kvgnIT2EPRRrEzu2MxO7CKb2J/ly4QVZ xPbQ357GlmnCWmHvgECY7A20iPjgAO/z+8t9OEkCPv47E6C9+yzPdUXtWZ6Uwp4h uy/7Dm5eCkA= =nH/J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 27 10:49:39 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:49:39 +0800 Subject: Video & cryptography... Message-ID: <199801271841.TAA15985@basement.replay.com> Remember what your target is here. (Focus, Pinky!) The ultimate goal is that you're trying to convict a suspect of some wrongdoing in a courtroom, and you would like to use as evidence a piece of video footage. But now, in addition to the old standard of "chain of possession" whereby a police officer logs when s/he receives the evidence, who has accessed it in the lab, storage, etc., you may now be required to establish the "truth" of the video -- was it forged, staged, or altered? Can the defense convince a jury that a video is not what it appears to be? Look at the O.J. case where they convinced people that a piece of DNA might not have been his. What a load of malarkey they heaped upon those people, and shame on the prosecution for not going back and matching up another 50 markers, dropping the chances of an error from 1 in 3*10^12 to 1 in 3*10^60. (Ultimately, it wouldn't have mattered of course because they pointed out other "flaws" in the chain of possession, specifically the FBI crime lab. Why they might have had a *different* case with O.J.'s blood is beyond me... They could have retested the DNA from every cell in evidence on that trial, found only Nicole's, Goldman's and Simpson's DNA, and STILL they would have gotten it thrown out, because jurors are incapable of understanding math.) What this means to us is that, in a courtroom, a signed piece of digital tape will probably be accepted the same as an unsigned piece of analog tape. The courts have already established precedent that says that the scientific method has less value than an overpriced lawyer. Think about it: what we strive for as a cryptographic proof means less than the unsworn audio tape from a 21 year old intern. If some lawyer wants to challenge a piece of video, and can throw enough money at it, s/he's going to win. You're better off spending money training the persons operating the VCR, because that's the defense's next point of attack. The idea behind the digitally signed video frames is that the video "consumer" (the persons who shot and recorded the video) probably didn't edit the video to falsify some evidence, and that the person who built the camera is willing to go to court to testify that their video is not tampered with. As a video "consumer", you're willing to pay for a witness from the video equipment supplier to come testify that you didn't edit their video. It theoretically (in a certain, very limited subset of theory) eliminates the "Rising Sun" plotline where someone edited the digital video. Now, we all know that since you can falsify the video by all kinds of other means, the only thing it really accomplishes is it adds a float to the parade going past the jury. And whoever has the prettiest parade wins "justice", right? At 05:02 PM 1/26/98 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: >Jim Choate wrote: >| > From: Adam Shostack >| > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... >| > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) >| >| > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating >| > camera. > >Dave points out that this was Schneier, Hall and Kelsey. > >| > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not >| > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is >| > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the >| > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. >| >| Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature >| process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the >| characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing >| email. > > It arises in a different context; with a signature on paper, >you're generally indicating that you've read and consented to whats on >the paper, not that you created it. The meaning of a camera signing a >video still is not obvious to me. Is it intended to be 'this is what >we saw through the lens?' or 'this is what really happened?' > >Adam From sunder at sundernet.com Tue Jan 27 10:56:58 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:56:58 +0800 Subject: Information on key handling with Microsoft products (fwd) Message-ID: > There's been some discussion recently on this news alias about how > Microsoft > handles key management (and some related topics) in CryptoAPI (more > specifically, the Microsoft base CSPs). Below is a document we've put > together to help answer these questions. > > Thanks, > -JasonG > > Product Manager, Windows NT Security > Microsoft Corporation > > > > Microsoft's Response to Recent Questions on the Recovery > of Private Keys from various Microsoft Products > > Recently, there has been discussion on some Internet forums about the > methods Microsoft uses to store private keys in some of its products, as > well as about CryptoAPI's role in key management. These discussions > included > some inaccurate information about the PFX and PKCS-12 formats, as well as > how Microsoft implements these formats in its products. > > This paper was prepared by the Microsoft Public Key Infrastructure team to > provide some additional insight and clarification on these issues, and in > some cases, identify long-term plans that Microsoft has to continue the > improvement of security in our products. > > CryptoAPI > One area to clarify at the outset is the role of CryptoAPI. Implications > that any key management problem on Microsoft's Internet products would be > an > example of fundamental problems with CryptoAPI are absolutely inaccurate. > CryptoAPI is a set of cryptographic technologies that are provided for use > by other software--sort of a cryptographic toolbox. The actual > cryptographic > functions are provided through Cryptographic Service Providers (CSPs), > which > are implemented as DLLs. With the exception of the details about a > possible > PKCS-12 attack, all the issues raised in the recent discussions are > specifically aimed at Microsoft's base CSPs, not at CryptoAPI. The base > CSPs are the royalty-free, software-based CSPs provided with Windows NT > 4.0, > Windows 95, and Internet Explorer. These attacks do not apply in general > to > other CryptoAPI CSPs and do not indicate any fundamental concerns with the > security of the CryptoAPI architecture or applications built upon it. > > PFX/PKCS-12 > Microsoft products do not "store" private key material using PKCS-12, > contrary to recent descriptions on the Internet. For clarification, > PKCS-12 > is a standard format, used for export/import of Public Key Certificates > and > related key material. At present, the only Microsoft product that > supports > use of this format is Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.x. Internet Explorer > uses PKCS-12 solely as a means of migrating a user's Certificate and > public-private key pair between multiple Internet Explorer installations > or > between Internet Explorer and other products, such as Netscape > Communicator. > > > Some background might help. Microsoft originally developed the draft > specification for an encrypted export/import format, referred to as PFX, > but > the PFX specification was never implemented by Microsoft. Instead, the > PFX > specification was handed over to RSA Labs and it became the draft PKCS-12 > specification. The design was then reviewed, and contributed to, by a > number of other companies to arrive at the current PKCS-12 standard. > Microsoft and Netscape have both implemented PKCS-12 with 40-bit > encryption. > This was done to provide a common, exportable solution that was completely > interoperable. > > The example of breaking a PKCS-12 data blob, which was given in discussion > on the Internet, is not an attack on the "weak" cryptography of PKCS-12. > Rather, it is simply a dictionary attack (long known and well understood > in > cryptography), which works well if people use poorly-chosen passwords to > protect the PKCS-12 data blob. Examples of such bad passwords include > words > in the English dictionary. In our implementation of PKCS-12, we could > possibly do some things to make brute-force attack against an exported > PKCS-12 data blob more difficult. For example, performing a dictionary > check > on the password before accepting it for encrypting the data blob would > reduce the use of weak passwords. Alternatively, we could iterate the > setup > function to increase "diversity" making it much more expensive for an > attacker to search. However, neither of these methods are required for > protection of the data blob. Good security is always a combination of > technology and policy. As part of a strong security policy, strong > passwords > should be used on all resources. The Microsoft Security Advisor website > (http://www.microsoft.com/security) has some guidelines for choosing > strong > passwords. > > One statement by the original poster argues that Microsoft managed to > design > a security format that actually makes it easier to break into the > protected > data. As stated above, a number of well respected companies were involved > extensively in the design and review of PKCS-12 before it became a > standard. > An iteration count, which would make the type of attack described above > more > difficult (in terms of time), was added late in the PKCS-12 evolution. It > was, however, too late to make it into the Internet Explorer 4 product > release. Future versions of Internet Explorer will include support for the > an iteration count, further strengthening the security of exported key > material. > > Of course, in general the PKCS-12 data objects will not be available on a > user's machine, since they are only used by Internet Explorer 4.x when > exporting key material to, or importing key material from another system. > As > with any sensitive data, users should take care when working PKCS-12 data > blobs and not leave them on their hard drives. > > Exploiting Internet Explorer > One of the fundamental requirements to perform any possible cryptographic > attack discussed in the recent postings is the assumption that a malicious > entity could somehow access to data on a user's computer system, without > the > permission or knowledge of the user. This is a large leap of faith. > Users > that are using Public Key Certificates today are generally sophisticated > and > savvy users, or part of a larger corporate infrastructure with > knowledgeable > administrators. This class of users will certainly keep abreast of current > security issues and install security-related patches and updates as they > become available. Microsoft has been extremely responsive in dealing with > all known Internet Explorer security attacks and has posted patches for > all > currently known attacks. And, of course, security issues are certainly not > limited to Microsoft software. > > Information on security-related issues with Microsoft products is > available > on the Microsoft Security Advisor website at > http://www.microsoft.com/security. > > Attacks against Authenticode signing keys > Another concern identified was that if a malicious hacker could steal a > user's or company's Authenticode signing key, that hacker could sign > objects > with that key and distribute them. Then when other users tried to download > the signed object, they would think the key's owner really signed the > object, which might contain malicious code. The Authenticode program has > been designed to ensure that only trusted programs are allowed to run on a > users machine. As stated earlier Microsoft has been very responsive is > addressing security issues with IE. > > However, it is extremely unlikely anyone could be successful with a > simplistic strategy for stealing Authenticode signing keys and then using > them. As noted above, there are security patches already released for > known > Internet Explorer bugs that could possibly allow a key blob to be stolen > off > a user's hard disk (assuming a user left an Authenticode 'key' file on > their > hard disk). Second, anyone signing code using Authenticode technology is > extremely unlikely to leave their key material sitting on an end user > machine routinely used for browsing the Internet. > > Microsoft recommends storing key material, such as that used in > Authenticode, in hardware tokens. Such tokens prevent any of these attacks > from getting started as the keys are not stored in the PC and are not > exportable. The Authenticode signing keys that Microsoft uses for all our > software, for instance, are stored in such a physical hardware key storage > mechanism. > > Attacks on Encrypted Key material > There is some confusion over the algorithms and methods that Microsoft > uses > to provide protection of encrypted key material in Internet Explorer when > using the standard Microsoft base CSPs. There were changes between > Internet > Explorer 3.0x and Internet Explorer 4.x specifically to address any > possible > concern. Note, this concern is unlikely to be valid for any third-party > software CSP and is not relevant to hardware CSPs. > > Microsoft is constantly working to improve the security of our products. > We > determined that there were better suited methods for storing keys than > using > the RSA RC4 stream cipher algorithm used in Internet Explorer 3.0x. In > particular, a stream cipher, such as RC4, is not ideally suited for this > particular use because it can be susceptible to a "known-keystream > attack". > In a known-keystream attack, if you know the plain text, which you > arguably > might be able to determine given the number of standard PKCS-8 fields, you > can recover the keystream. If you recover the keystream, then a XOR > function will indeed decrypt anything else encrypted with the same key. > However, Microsoft only used this RC4-based implementation in the base > CSPs > that shipped with Internet Explorer 3.0x. The CSPs that shipped in > Internet > Explorer 4.x protect private key material in a form that is encrypted > using > DES, which is a block cipher and is not susceptible to the known-keystream > attack that can be used against RC4. > > Again, note that this kind of attack assumes some degree of security > breach > on the user's system such that the keystream could be obtained. > > Key export attacks > The original Internet posting raises concern about the CryptoAPI interface > CryptExportKey(). This function is fully documented and does indeed > export > private key material in an encrypted format. The presence of the > CryptExportKey() function is to support functionality such as migrating > key > material between machines for a user or creating a backup copy of a key. > It > should be noted however, that many CSPs, including most hardware based > CSPs, > do not allow exportable private keys and will return and error in response > to a CryptExportKey() request. > > Also, Microsoft's base software CSPs provide a means to mark keys as > non-exportable when they are generated. An additional security protection > is provided if the flag CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED is set, in which case each > use > of the private key, including export, requires the user to supply a > password > to access the key. Some commercial CAs are not currently setting this > flag > and do not provide the user a way to request it during Certificate > enrollment. We recognize this as a problem. We will continue working > with > CAs to assist them in supporting these security features. However, we > will > also make available a utility to allow setting this flag after key > generation for users concerned with this type of attack. > > The posting also asserts that an ActiveX control could be downloaded from > a > web page, simply ask for the current users key, ship the key off for > collection by an unscrupulous person, and then delete itself without a > trace. > > If users run unsigned code, or code from an unknown origin, a number of > unpleasant things can happen. This could indeed occur if the key as been > marked exportable and the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag is not set. However, > such a scenario assumes that the user follows few or no policies with > regard > to good security, such as running code from unknown sources. Similarly, if > the user were running software from unknown/untrusted sources, that > software > could reformat their hard drive, or manipulate other user data. This > concept > is certainly not new. > > There was also discussion of 16 dialog boxes appearing to the user for > their > password if the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag is set. Certainly asking the > user > too many times would be better than too few times, however in our tests, > under extreme (and uncommon cases), a user might be asked for their > password > at most four times when a key is used with the Microsoft base CSPs. > Perhaps > the claim came from an early beta release. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Users Guide http://www.microsoft.com/sitebuilder/resource/mailfaq.asp > contains important info including how to unsubscribe. Save time, search > the archives at http://microsoft.ease.lsoft.com/archives/index.html From sunder at sundernet.com Tue Jan 27 10:57:57 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:57:57 +0800 Subject: Sweedish police weed out hackers Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:05:57 -0500 From: Salvatore DeNaro To: Ray Arachelian Subject: Forward this to the list? *** Swedish police weed out hackers 2 young Swedish hackers who turned a Swedish county's home page into an advertisement for pornography and marijuana and broke into the U.S. space agency's computer system have been tracked down, local media reported. After a yearlong hunt, police in Umea in northern Sweden finally traced the 2 youths, aged 18 and 15, and seized their computers, the newspaper Vasterbottens Folkblad said Wednesday. Police were quoted as saying no charges would be laid because no economic crime had been committed. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7065918-55d From sunder at sundernet.com Tue Jan 27 11:01:46 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:01:46 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Clinton said this morning: > > >>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm > going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that > woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time > -- never. These allegations are false. > <<<< > > The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > > Is it oral sex? Next thing you know, he'll say "She gave me a blow job, but didn't swallow, so it's not sex." :) =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 27 11:11:40 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:11:40 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127090723.008012c0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <6V0yJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> David Honig writes: > At 07:11 PM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote: > >"Roger J Jones" writes: > > > >> > >> Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the > >> "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its > Bubba > >> Bill? > >> > >Can you spell "curvature"? > > So you *do* have intimate knowledge of the president.... > but I won't tell :-) What is the difference between Bill Clinton and the Titanic? Only 1700 people went down on the Titanic. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Tue Jan 27 12:13:38 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:13:38 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that cultivated from his foreskin scrapings. ,/ \, ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole `--)~ ~(--` .-'( )`-, `~~`d\ /b`~~` | | (6___6) `---` From paulmerrill at acm.org Tue Jan 27 12:14:50 1998 From: paulmerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:14:50 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CE676C.2B10424F@acm.org> Rabid Wombat wrote: > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts (in this case table salt) and water. while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that "rule". PHM. From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 27 12:18:00 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:18:00 +0800 Subject: sat survailience Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:55:09 -0500 From: Somebody Subject: sat survailience To: rah MIME-version: 1.0 Bob - something else to be paranoid about! When Is a Satellite Photo An Unreasonable Search? By Staff Reporter of Over the years, satellite photos have plotted the course of Soviet warships and tracked the movements of Iraqi troops. Last year, they also nailed Floyd Dunn for growing cotton on his Arizona farm allegedly without an irrigation permit. Mr. Dunn contends that he did have the required permits but paid the $4,000 fine to maintain good relations with the Arizona Department of Water Resources. "You can't argue with a satellite," he says. "Being caught like I was caught is kind of unfair." As state and local agencies make more use of satellite imagery -- for everything from surveying illicit crops to detecting unauthorized building -- they're raising questions about the propriety of spying on American civilians from the sky. "It certainly has a 'Big Brother Is Watching You' flavor to it," says Larry Griggers, a director at the Georgia Department of Revenue. "But it prevents us from having to spend money for other types of enforcement." The state tax authority plans to use National Aeronautic and Space Administration satellites to check all 58,910 squares miles of the state for unreported timber cutting. It also plans to share the photos with any state agency that asks, which could lead to a wide variety of enforcement actions. Does taking satellite photos of private citizens and their property -- generally without their knowledge -- violate the Constitution's Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches? The American Bar Association has organized a task force to explore that question, as well as such issues as how long photos can be kept on file and how freely they can be shared with police. Because U.S. Justice Department officials are on the task force, the recommendations are expected to influence how law-enforcement authorities and civil agencies use the new images and at what point they require warrants. Use of satellite images has increased markedly since the early 1990s, when the Russian space agency, Sovinformsputnik, began selling spy-quality photos to raise cash. The U.S. lifted its own restrictions on sale of high-resolution satellite photos in 1994, which encouraged entrepreneurs to launch satellites of their own that could compete with the Russian imagery. Those efforts may soon pay off. This year a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp. and Raytheon Co. hopes to launch a satellite that will yield imagery detailed enough to distinguish sedans from minivans. Another firm, Earthwatch Inc. of Longmont, Colo., says it is proceeding with plans to launch a similar satellite in 1999 -- despite the recent loss of radio contact with a less-advanced model the firm launched in December. Both enterprises decline to discuss their public-sector clients. Some state and local agencies have been purchasing photos from French, Indian and U.S. government satellites since the 1980s, and increasingly powerful computer software is allowing them to make better use of the imagery. The Arizona Department of Water Resources spotted Mr. Dunn's cotton crop, for example, because it routinely obtains photographs from the French government's SPOT satellites of 750,000 acres of central Arizona farmland. State officials then compare the images with a database of water-use permits to determine which farmers might be exceeding water-use rules. "A week doesn't go by where somebody doesn't propose a new use," says John Hoffman, whose Raleigh, N.C., business, Aerial Images Inc., has become the main reseller of images taken by Russian intelligence satellites. Much of what Mr. Hoffman has available is old imagery of Western cities. But he says he can also take orders for new photos on upcoming missions. Price: $6,500 to photograph 10 square kilometers with resolution of about six feet, which he says is sharp enough to distinguish cars from pickup trucks. In North Carolina several counties are using Mr. Hoffman's photos to find unreported building activities, agricultural development and other property improvements that would raise property-tax assessments. Demand from state and local agencies in his region is so strong, he says, that Sovinformsputnik, the Russian space agency, has scheduled a Feb. 17 launch of a satellite that will concentrate mainly on photographing the Southeastern U.S. Pictures taken from airplanes at lower altitudes are often more revealing, but satellite imagery can be much more cost-effective. Photographing an area the size of a small town, for example, can cost tens of thousands of dollars by airplane, approximately twice the cost by satellite. Some satellite imagery is faster as well. Although the satellites Mr. Hoffman works with use conventional film that is developed after the satellite returns to earth, newer camera platforms can transmit images digitally just minutes after they are taken. To date, there have been few legal challenges to the use of satellite imagery. But the technology of overhead photography is evolving faster than the law. Courts have allowed government officials to take detailed pictures from airplanes flying as low as 1,200 feet. And in 1986, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was permitted to photograph a Dow Chemical facility in Midland, Mich., because the EPA used relatively conventional airplane-camera equipment. But the high court raised a red flag in that case: "It may well be ... that surveillance of private property by using highly sophisticated surveillance equipment not generally available to the public, such as satellite technology, might be constitutionally proscribed absent a warrant." The ABA task force is exploring just these questions. Sheldon Krantz, chair of the task force and a partner at Piper & Marbury LLP in Washington, says that it will propose in April that law-enforcement agencies be required to obtain warrants to use "satellite cameras [that] can focus on images of a few feet across." That standard would probably include most advanced satellite images, although the task force has yet to agree on more specific definitions. "We need to make some big value judgments about these practices before they become so widespread," says Mr. Krantz. Some businesses say they welcome oversight from space. Georgia-Pacific Corp. and other big timber concerns support the Georgia Department of Revenue's forest survey, saying it will help to disprove accusations that they have secretly cut trees without paying taxes. Several small timber owners already have been fined a total of $2,000 in a test of the statewide program that took place in Wayne County, near Savannah. And as sharper-resolution photos become available, some Georgia officials suggest the program could be used to look for objects as small as backyard porches, to check if homeowners have their construction permits in order. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From root at Elitehackers.org Tue Jan 27 12:28:58 1998 From: root at Elitehackers.org (J-Dog) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:28:58 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127090723.008012c0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980126122113.007237bc@carlink.com> At 01:15 PM 1/27/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >David Honig writes: > >> At 07:11 PM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote: >> >"Roger J Jones" writes: >> > >> >> >> >> Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the >> >> "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its >> Bubba >> >> Bill? >> >> >> >Can you spell "curvature"? >> >> So you *do* have intimate knowledge of the president.... >> but I won't tell :-) > >What is the difference between Bill Clinton and the Titanic? >Only 1700 people went down on the Titanic. > >--- > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM >Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps > most people get Aids from sex clinton gets sex from Aids lates J-Dog From tony at fozzie.secapl.com Tue Jan 27 12:40:44 1998 From: tony at fozzie.secapl.com (Tony Iannotti) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:40:44 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <1c103cd4daa62b5cabf50f16f87903e1@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > Go back to the sushi bar and read your English book. Chop chop. Although I would have preferred a web cite, and harder performance specs, I think the information is relevant to advancing cryptanalytic hardware attacks. Accordingly, I go to NEC website now myself, chop chop. (Don't care about Misty anymore, and regurgitating Tim's Japan-speak caricature isn't furthering anything.) > >Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > >maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > >to be developed. > >Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. > >It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years > >with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. From declan at well.com Tue Jan 27 12:48:01 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:48:01 +0800 Subject: Privacy and presidential philandering, from the Netly News Message-ID: ******** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1714,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 27, 1998 Private Parts by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) Already you can hear the plaintive sound of President Clinton's partisans whining about privacy. The allegations about Will's wandering willy are too intimate, too sensitive and (if the truth be told) too embarrassing to be discussed publicly, they claim. Yesterday the wire services were busy recycling Hillary Clinton's plea for a "zone of privacy"; a Clinton defender wrote in USA Today that nobody should be "inflicting the details of his sex life on the public"; a piece in the New York Times complained about a "fishing expedition into the President's sexual history." On NBC's Today show, Hillary groused about living in "a time where people are malicious and evil-minded." On many electronic mailing lists, the talk nowadays seems to be of little else. "The current pursuit of Clinton -- whatever the facts turn out to be -- strikes me, itself, as an obscenity," griped Edward Kent on a First Amendment list. "We need more protections of privacy in this country." Michael Troy replied, "I don't think there is a constitutional right to privacy for an employer (who is also a public figure) having sex with an employee in the workplace." He's right. The call for greater "privacy protections" is a call for censorship in disguise. [...] From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 27 13:12:58 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:12:58 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? Message-ID: <199801272107.WAA06053@basement.replay.com> > > Next thing you know, he'll say "She gave me a blow job, but didn't > swallow, so it's not sex." :) Is that like "if you don't get pregnant," it's not intercourse??? Gotta be a lot of virgins out there then. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 13:36:54 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:36:54 +0800 Subject: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From physnews at aip.org Tue Jan 27 15:31:03 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:46:26 -0500 From: physnews at aip.org (AIP listserver) Message-Id: <199801271346.IAA15741 at aip.org> To: physnews-mailing at aip.org Subject: update.356 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 356 January 27, 1998 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein LOCALIZATION OF LIGHT has been achieved by an Amsterdam- Florence collaboration (contact Ad Lagendijk, adlag at phys.uva.nl). Consider the movement of light through a diffuse medium such as milk, fog, or sugar. The light waves scatter repeatedly, and the transmission of light decreases as the light gets reflected. In the Amsterdam-Florence experiment something different happens. By using a gallium-arsenide powder with a very high index of refraction but with very low absorption at near infrared (wavelength of 1064 nm), the researchers were, in a sense, able to get the light to stand still. That is, the light waves get into the medium and bounce around in a standing wave pattern, without being absorbed. This is the first example of "Anderson localization" for near-visible light. This medium is not what would be called a "photonic bandgap" material (analogous to a semiconductor for electrons) but more like a "photonic insulator." (Wiersma et al., Nature, 18/25 December 1997; see also www.aip.org/physnews/graphics) QUANTUM EVAPORATION occurs in a new experiment when a beam of phonons (little pulses of sound issuing from a warm filament) inside a pool of superfluid helium-4 is aimed at the liquid surface from below. In analogy with the photoelectric effect (in which light ejects electrons from a surface), the phonons pop helium atoms up out of the liquid. By measuring the momenta of the phonons and the evaporated atoms, one can determine that the atoms originally had zero momentum parallel to the surface, demonstrating directly (for the first time) that the He-4 atoms had been part of a Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC), in which the atoms fall into a single quantum state. Theories of superfluid He-4 had supposed that the atoms reside in a BEC state, but this had not been experimentally verified until now. The researcher, Adrian Wyatt of the University of Exeter, believes this method can be used to generate beams of coherent helium atoms (an "atom laser" effect). (Nature, 1 January 1998.) ANOTHER VERSION OF QUANTUM TELEPORTATION is being published by researchers in Italy and England (Francesco DeMartini, University of Rome, demartini at axcasp.caspur.it). Like the Innsbruck teleportation scheme published several weeks earlier (Update 351), this demonstration employs a pair of entangled photons. Whereas the Innsbruck experiment teleported the polarization value of a third, distinct "message photon" to one of the entangled photons, the Rome scheme encodes one of the entangled photons with a specific polarization state and transmits this state to the other entangled photon. Although different from the Innsbruck experiment (which had a 25% teleportation success rate) and the original theoretical proposal for teleportation, this scheme works 100% of the time if the receiver applies the right transformations on the second photon. (D. Boschi et al., upcoming article in Physical Review Letters). In another, theoretical paper, Sam Braunstein of the University of Wales (Bangor) and Jeff Kimble of Caltech propose an experimental method for extending quantum teleportation from transmitting discrete variables such as polarization to transmitting continuous variables like the amplitude of the electric field associated with a light wave. (Braunstein et al., Phys. Rev. Lett., 26 January 1998.) From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 27 13:37:22 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:37:22 +0800 Subject: Executing Kaczynski In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127201813.008249e0@cnw.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127010704.007bc330@popd.ix.netcom.com> bAt 08:18 PM 1/27/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: >Vladimir Ze Cornflake inquired of TCM: > >>> Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected >>>for a while as being the Unabomber. >> >>whoa, are you being facetious here or what? would you care to elaborate >>on that little tidbit? >................................................. >It was TCM himself. >(myself, I speculated it was Detweiler.) Eric Hughes was the Berkeley student of esoteric mathematics who was good at woodworking. He'd have been pretty young when he started his Life Of Crime, but he always was precocious :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bubbabill at whitehouse.gov Tue Jan 27 13:59:06 1998 From: bubbabill at whitehouse.gov (bubbabill at whitehouse.gov) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:59:06 +0800 Subject: New Plan for America!!!!! Message-ID: <199801272150.PAA17408@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Tonight at the State of the Union I will announce my new plan for America - "Swallow the Leader" From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 14:10:12 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:10:12 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Check this out!] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801272206.QAA02182@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From stugreen at bga.com Tue Jan 27 16:01:14 1998 Sender: root at coney.lsd-labs.com Message-ID: <34CE5A63.9D29DD2 at bga.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:06:27 -0600 From: Stu Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ravage at ssz.com Subject: [Fwd: Check this out!] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14988 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:39:17 -0600 Received: (qmail 13392 invoked from network); 27 Jan 1998 18:39:14 -0000 Received: from isdn5-69.ip.realtime.net (HELO bga.com) (205.238.160.69) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 1998 18:39:14 -0000 Message-ID: <34CE2AD0.F3822BFE at bga.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:43:28 -0600 From: David Neeley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stugreen at bga.com Subject: Check this out! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you don't get an e-mail newsletter called "Tasty Bits from the Technology Front" I offer for your enjoyment: ..A warning on Microsoft (in)security Basic crypto weakness undermines all claims to security, expert says Longtime readers know that TBTF has been reporting on security weak- nesses in Microsoft's products, particularly Internet Explorer, for more than a year [25]. Now a security expert from New Zealand, Peter Gutmann, has posted a paper [26] claiming that the flaws are so ser- ious that Windows 95 users should entirely refrain from using the Web. Among the problems Gutmann points out is a critical weakness in the way Microsoft software protects (or does not protect) users' master encryption key; this weakness undermines all other encryp- tion components in Web servers and browsers. Gutmann outlines how a cracker could quietly retrieve the private key from a victim's ma- chine and break the encryption that "protects" it in a matter of seconds. The attacker has, Gutmann says, then "effectively stolen [the user's] digital identity, and can use it to digitally sign contracts and agreements, to recover every encryption session key it has ever protected in the past and will ever protect in the future, to access private and confidential email, and so on." TechWeb coverage is here [27]. [25] http://www.tbtf.com/resource/ms-sec-exploits.html [26] http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/breakms.txt [27] http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980123S0007 From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Tue Jan 27 14:21:46 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:21:46 +0800 Subject: Ultra computer. Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15FF@exna01.securitydynamics.com> I also find the merriment at Nobuki Nakatuji poor English skills offensive - I wish I spoke Japanese as well as he can write English. That's not to say I think we should all go off and work on MISTY right away. However, on his 'NEC supercomputer', there's a somewhat low-content press release at http://www.nec.co.jp/english/today/newsrel/9801/2101.html They've been asked to design as 32 TFlop machine, with an aim of building it by 2002. It's a highly parallelized vector machine, ostensibly aimed at weather forcasting. It'll have 4 TB of RAM, and 'thousands' of processors. I wish I knew just what processor it's supposed to use, but it's probably only on paper at the moment. Here's a really rough calculation Assume integer instructions are no slower than the FP instructions. Best DES code for Alpha gets 94 clock cycles/key - guess 200 instructions/key. 2^56 *200 = 1.4e19 instructions = 450360 seconds = 125 hours to exhaust key space, or about 2.5/days on average. even if I'm off by a factor of two, this is pretty quick for a general purpose machine. From ryan at michonline.com Tue Jan 27 14:22:54 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:22:54 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > Um, salt water explodes? >From my high-school chemistry, neutralization makes slatwater and a lot of heat.... (Or that's what the teacher claimed)... Without a way to dump the pressure generated this way, yes you could have an explosion... Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello, Does anybody on this list have an opinion of the quality of the Crypt::DES and Crypt::IDEA perl modules? I'm concerned with whether or not the modules use electronic code book instead of cipher block chaining encryption mode. The documentation does not make this clear. If nobody knows the answer to this I'll figure it out from the source code. However, I suspected I could save some time by asking here. Besides this question, does anybody have an opinion of the quality of these routines? I'm not asking for opinions regarding the quality or lack of quality of DES or IDEA, but of these particular implementations. thanks much, -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair at uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM5d0QJjTpK3AXhBAQGN6QQAr14AZWWRPrRx4vRMTtecboL66rz2kmby +d5E1troSBDDvxkdpbsg4PhS05KEDrRJjjoCHUWDQlGeZ5RTsJUCgLOi1plXKsml K5oDqyEToa7AKazwcPC9DZj8JNf0/oNuZfWKw1cPW4r/QCmZI6DmdDb1xz3OFC+m 7+Okl/YERiU= =KxmH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kelsey at plnet.net Tue Jan 27 14:57:59 1998 From: kelsey at plnet.net (John Kelsey) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:57:59 +0800 Subject: future proofing algorithms Message-ID: <199801272251.QAA01965@email.plnet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: Cypherpunks, Adam Back ## Date: 01/26/98 ## Subject: future proofing algorithms ] >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:18:31 GMT >From: Adam Back >Subject: future proofing algorihtms (Re: (eternity) Eternity > as a secure filesystem/backup medium) >It is interesting to note that Tim May's recent suggestion >of LAM (Local Area Mixes) would help here because if 5 of >those mixmaster nodes where part of a LAM, it is unlikely >that the NSA would be able to archive inter remailer >traffic, thus increasing effective pool size to 100^5. So >one advantage of the LAM approach is that it provides links >which are protected by physical security. This is a good point. The crypto looks like the strongest link in the chain right now, but if it turns out not to be, reliance on local physical security isn't a bad idea. (This works only if the huge numbers of the local machines must be subverted for an attack to work; if the attacker has to take over only a couple machines, he can probably manage this.) Discovering a better way to bypass my physical security today doesn't let you know who sent what last year, and security guards don't become retroactively twice as cheap to bribe every eighteen months. >> Note that, in practice, this isn't likely to be useful >> unless you've done the same kind of thing for symmetric key >> distribution, random number generation, etc. Otherwise, >> your attacker in 2050 will bypass the symmetric encryption >> entirely and factor your RSA modulus, or guess all the >> entropy sources used for your PRNG, or whatever else you can >> think of. >Yes. We need to build constructs for all areas. A mega >hash would be nice, with a large output size even in the >face of birthday attack, preferably as secure as a >collection of hash functions. Right. I've seen some work done on this, mostly informally. The basic result I'm aware of with hash functions is like this: Let f() and g() be two different hash functions, such as SHA1 and RIPE-MD160. Let X,Y be the concatenation of X and Y. Then: Hash1(X) = f(X),g(X) Hash2(X) = f(g(X)),g(f(X)) You can quickly convince yourself that Hash1(X) is at least as resistant to collision as the stronger of f() and g(), but it's only as resistant as the weaker of the two to leaking information about X. (That is, if f(X) just gives you the low 160 bits of X, then Hash1(X) gives you the same thing.) Hash2() won't leak information unless both f() and g() leak information about their inputs, but you can't guarantee that it will be very good against collisions. (That is, if f(X) = 0 for all X, then all possible X values cause a collision in Hash2(X).) If f() and g() are independent, and one of them looks like a random function of X, then Hash3(X) = f(X) XOR g(X) looks pretty good. But it's possible for either f() or g() to be non-reversible without Hash3() being nonreversible. (The obvious case occurs when you think of something like f(X) = X g(X) = encrypt_{knownKey}(X) XOR X. Note that g() looks rather like some existing hash functions, where encrypt() is a known function. >That gives us something to wash our pseudo random number >input entropy with, and then we can go on to combine public >key systems. Right. Choosing the PRNG well is important, but I suspect that the real issue is going to be getting enough input entropy. If you can get 80 bits of real entropy today, you have a reasonably secure system now, but NSA may not find your system that secure in twenty years. For resistance to cryptanalysis, we can use the same set of stream ciphers as before. If we run Blowfish, 3DES, and SAFER-SK128 in OFB-mode, and XOR the streams together, we get an output stream that's no easier to predict than the weakest of the three ciphers used. Entropy collection on a wide range of different machines, without specialized hardware, is just a hard thing to do well. It's especially hard if you're postulating a massively powerful attacker years in the future. >A problem with public key systems however is that there >isn't a lot of choice -- basically all based on discrete log >or factoring. So perhaps RSA and DH combined in a construct >with an optimistically proportioned key size would be near >all that could be done. That sounds about right. Note that LAMs and such can use shared symmetric keys along with the public keys, so that an attacker has to get both to defeat the system. When the number of mixes is small, maybe some informal password-sharing at conferences might help this. For LAMs, some level of hand-carried key exchange can be used. Then, actual keys can be encrypted as RSA(R_0), ElGamal(R_1) are sent Previously shared secret key K_2 is known. Session Key = SK = E_{K_2}(R_0) XOR E_{K_2}(R_2). Also note that DH should probably be used with many different prime moduli, to resist any massive precomputation on one modulus. Maybe each mix could have several expensively-prepared Sophie Germaine primes, and senders could randomly select one for DH or El Gamal encryption. This would spread out a future attacker's resources, though of course, the attacker's effort scales only linearly in the number of (expensive to find) primes. >I suspect archiving world Network traffic would pose >something of a operational and financial strain :-) On the other hand, perhaps this is how NSA will pay their employees' salaries once crypto becomes sufficiently widespread: They will start a search engine service on all those archives of usenet/internet traffic for all these years: ``Check up on your political opponents' newsreading habits. Read the love letters of libertarian activists in the 90s. Find out whether Chief Justice Clarence Thomas ever visits adult web sites these days. *Only* at http://www.archives.nsa.org '' It would actually be very funny if historians in a couple centuries got access to the NSA's archives of recorded phone calls, telegrams, and e-mails. Imagine the odd assumptions that would result, with history students having this image of twentieth century america based on recorded phone calls of anarchists, antiwar activists, civil rights activists, communists, important politicians, mobsters, suspected spies, and wealthy businessmen. >Adam Note: I read CP-LITE instead of the whole list. Please CC me on replies. - --John Kelsey, kelsey at counterpane.com / kelsey at plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNM5efSZv+/Ry/LrBAQGN8wP/aHKJbm024oDMNZIozcBGW+Vt4bKKLDoZ xhV6DQ3e4v9UadYJeKpCfRjrMDC06H6eP3D4E8vizEHVk2JCvHDTN3Fshf5pOtB2 tgrooYOP1pC5FuQAPPyhkJ840V7ve0mlpy3VWz5/hSvkkP1BW7KHoFv47sniVHZe RFsiz/hW7jc= =2Oml -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tgustavo.sanjuan at interredes.com.ar Tue Jan 27 15:33:11 1998 From: tgustavo.sanjuan at interredes.com.ar (Transportes Gustavo S.R.L.) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:33:11 +0800 Subject: Easy Money Message-ID: <19980127231625703.ABC236@lizard> This is it! THE MOST PHENOMENAL WEALTH-BUILDING BONANZA IN HISTORY. A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for you to upgrade the quality of your life forever. Your chance to automatically capitalize on the historic outpouring of humanity on to the Internet. (It will only happen once ... and it's happening RIGHT NOW!) Take just four minutes to discover the secret that WILL IMMEDIATELY CHANGE YOUR LIFE. (Do you *really* have something else to do more important than THAT?) You are about to embark upon a wonderful journey to amass a small fortune in a short time. (Even a LARGE fortune, if you choose to devote some effort.) It's easy and fail proof. All you have to do is take the first step. You've paid your dues; you deserve it. Now it's your turn. WITHIN 90 DAYS, YOU'LL HAVE MORE THAN $50,000 ... and that's just the beginning! HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Simple: To begin with, realize that there were only about two-million Internet "host sites" in 1994 -- yet that number had soared to around 20 million by the end of 1997. In other words, the rate of Internet growth is geometric -- like 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc. And, for the moment, even THAT rate is accelerating. Now, the most famous example of a host site is aol.com, America Online(tm). It, by itself, has over ten-million people as members. (Not all host sites have members, though.) HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: Following the present trend, the number of host sites will skyrocket to nearly ONE HUNDRED MILLION during 1998. And that's just the host sites! Now, imagine how many individual PEOPLE are rushing on line for the first time ... right now ... this very instant. This creates tremendous opportunity for you. But there's no time to waste! (How long can THAT growth rate continue? Oh, sure, it will keep growing -- just not at the historic 1998 rate.) IF YOU'RE WAITING FOR YOUR SHIP TO COME IN, THIS IS IT. (Don't let it sail away without you.) So here it is, the easiest money-generating system you'll ever hear about. One that's showing extraordinary appeal to an ever-expanding mass of people who feel the need for additional income. And YOU can help them fulfill that need. HERE'S YOUR CHANCE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. HOW? In short, by developing a mailing list of people who need extra money. (I know: it doesn't seem very exciting yet, but keep reading.) And people will pay you to be on your list. A LOT of people. (See: it's already starting to sound better.) Let's go through it step by step so you'll know exactly what to do ... and why (Step #4!) so many people feel hope again. If you've seen a lot of posts like this, you already have PROOF that THIS SYSTEM WORKS. ____________________STEP 1._________________ You will need these instructions later; so save them on your hard drive. (FILE then SAVE. If you have a choice, choose a "text" or "ASCII" file type.) Now print these instructions so you can read them more easily. (Go ahead, I'll wait for you ...) ____________________STEP 2._________________ This is the step where you invest money. Less than $10. (Try not to cry.) About the same as the price of a movie ticket, or a 12-pack of beer, or a few lottery tickets. In this "lottery," however, YOU control the results. YOU CANNOT AFFORD *NOT* TO DO THIS. On a sheet of paper, write "Processing fee to add me to your mailing list". (You, too, are one of those people wanting extra income, aren't you? Besides, the inherent value of being on that mailing list is what makes this a legal program. [The relevant American laws are in the United States Code, Title 18, �1302, �1341, and �1342.]) Fold the sheet around a US $1 bill. Mail this to the List Manager in Position A, located at the end of these instructions. Double- check the postage for any mail going outside your country. Repeat that for the other List Managers. ___________________STEP 3.__________________ Use Notepad (preferably) or some other word processor to open the file you saved in Step 1. Scroll to the List Managers section. Delete the name and address under Position F. Move the name and address from Position E down to Position F. Then, in order, move each of the others down one until Position A is left vacant. That's where your name and address go! Double check your address: whatever is there is where all your money will go. Save the file. (If you don't have Notepad, be sure to save it as an "ASCII" or "text" file.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~������� NOW, HERE'S THE MAGIC PART . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________STEP 4._________________ THIS STEP MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. It's also where you invest a little time. As much as four hours, if you use America Online. (Try not to cry.) If it'll be easier on you, take an hour per day. Skip those X Files episodes you've already seen twice. In THIS show, YOU control the ending. All those people coming on line for the first time. Nearly TWO-THOUSAND NEW PEOPLE PER DAY ... and growing! Where do they go? Sooner or later --but usually immediately-- they go to the newsgroups. Isn't that where YOU discovered this opportunity? Over 40,000 newsgroups, now, and that's growing, too. (There's a list of 49,000 at ftp://ftp.alt.net/pub/news/active.) So, simply take the file you saved in Step 3 and post it to some newsgroups. Three hundred, to be precise. (How? See below.) How many people will be exposed to your offer during the two weeks your post will remain in the newsgroup? Depending on how you choose the newsgroups, anywhere from 10,000 to OVER A MILLION PEOPLE WILL SEE YOUR OFFER. �������������������������������������������� The implications of that are down right staggering. Even more so than it might seem! (See the Example section, below -- especially the first and last paragraphs.) ___________________STEP 5.__________________ Now begins the greatest money-making exprience of your life! In about a week, you start receiving requests and processing fees from opportunity seekers around the world. And they all want to be added to your mailing list. WHY do they want to do this? Well, for the most of the same reasons YOU want to do this! What will you do with all those requests? It's up to you. For example, you can sell them to professional list brokers, found in the Yellow Pages, who will see that offers are sent out. You can take up exotic-stamp collecting. To some of the addresses, you might even send these instructions: Most people want to jump right back in again as soon as their name moves out of Position F; after all, they already KNOW how well this works! And, what will you do with all that money? That, also, is up to you. (You can think of something, can't you?) ____________________________________________ ������������������� Example �������������������������������������������� This example assumes that you post, one time, to just 300 newsgroups, with an average readership of merely 100 people during the dozen days your message stays on file. It assumes that VIRTUALLY EVERYONE --9,998 out of every 10,000 potential readers-- does NOT even see your opportunity, does NOT read it, or is already involved or, in any case, does NOT take any action. In marketing terms, this assumes a response rate of merely one fiftieth of one percent (0.0002). That's considered almost no response at all! (NOW can you see why this works so well?) You in Position A: Only 6 respond to your efforts.�������������� 6 x $1 =����� $6 You in Position B: Only 6 respond to each of the 6 in A.������� 36 x $1 =���� $36 You in Position C: Only 6 respond to each of the 36 in B.����� 216 x $1 =��� $216 You in Position D: Only 6 respond to each of the 216 in C.�� 1,296 x $1 =� $1,296 You in Position E: Only 6 respond to each of the 1296 in D.� 7,776 x $1 =� $7,776 You in Position F: Only 6 respond to each of the 7776 in E. 46,656 x $1 = $46,656 ������������������������������������������������������ _______ ����������������������������������������� Your income� $55,986 If, however, these people each get a mere 8 responses (out of 30,000 people!), your income increases to well over a quarter of a million dollars! PEOPLE ARE TRULY ACCOMPLISHING THIS. RIGHT NOW! *WHY NOT YOU?* How? The details are in your hands this very instant. THAT'S IT. All you have to do is actually begin. You may even wish to try for 20 people. You literally won't believe how much THAT produces. So, do the numbers for yourself. (I'll give you two hints: a. For ten, it's 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = $1,000,000. b. Have you heard of a "sixty-four million dollar question"?) You just might end up wanting to spend a few DAYS posting, and to take it to a few of your friends. But start -- start today -- and start with just 300 newsgroups. THIS IS THE MOMENT YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR. __________How To Post To Newsgroups_________ To post, just "cut and paste": Highlight the entire text of these instructions. Choose EDIT then COPY. You only need to do that once. Here's the part you repeat: Go to the newsgroup. Click on Send New Message, Post Article, To News, or whatever applies. Type your headline in the Subject box. (Some subject heading samples are listed below.) Go to the Message box. Paste these instructions by holding down your Ctrl key while you depress the letter V. Click on Send, OK, or whatever is there. STEP-BY-STEP DIRECTIONS FOR AMERICA ONLINE: Go on line. Click on the Internet globe at the bottom of your Welcome page. Edit the Web Address window to read --without the quotes-- "http://members.aol.com/TouchMidas/private/aol-gold.txt". Click on Go To The Web. When you see the directions, print them out by clicking on the printer icon at the top of your screen. (If you receive a "URL Not Found" error, carefully re-type the address. If the it seems to have been discontinued, try this address: "http://home1.gte.net/docthomp/AOL.htm".) ___________Sample Subject Headings__________ .A Once-In-A-Lifetime Opportunity .How You Can Make $25,000 Per Month .How To Re-Invent Your Life .The Greatest Wealth-Building Bonanza In History! .Upgrade The Quality Of Your Life .FA$T, EA$Y MONEY! <-- Why you see so many of these: .Work At Home With Your Computer .Financial Independence .!�������������������� >� FA$T, EA$Y MONEY!� < .Income Opportunity .Be a millionaire in 1998 .Make money with your computer .!!$$ Hard Fast Cash $$!! .Immediate Internet Income At Home (complete instructions) .Safe Income Now .$$ Need Cash? $$ .!�������������� Earn THOU$AND$ posting to newsgroups! .Income From The Internet .Yes, you can make money working from home .MAKE MONEY FA$T & EA$Y .Home-Based Business Opportunity .Internet Income <-Why you're gonna see more of this You're really here; you made it! Congratulations on your breakthrough to financial independence and an enhanced quality of living. Or... ******************************************** *������ WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? ******************************************** Maybe things like this never work for you? (You are surely correct ... unless you're already grabbing an envelope.) You tried something like this before? (Have you *REALLY* ever reached 30,000 people before?) Maybe you'll only get $10,000? (Life is cruel.) Maybe you're already making $2,000 per hour? Maybe nobody else will do this? (Look around the newsgroups: they already ARE doing this. How much proof do you need?) Then, maybe everyone else is already doing this? (Definitely NOT! But you'll END UP being right if you keep putting this off.) "I'll do it later, really!" (Yeah, right.) Maybe the Easter Bunny will change your life, so you won't have to bother? Is the price of a movie ticket truly more important than your future? GO FOR THE GOLD: What have you got to lose? !-------REMEMBER, follow these steps and be honest, ������� and the money will pour in! ________________List Managers_______________ #1 B. Spiegeleer 31 rue de la Montagne de l�Esperou 75015 Paris Francia #2 C. Leyton Bulnes 737 San Bernardo, Santiago Chile #3 A. Curth Azcuenaga 1360 PB2 Buenos Aires, CF 1115 ARGENTINA #4 L Mastrogiacomo Maip� 596 1er piso Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires ARGENTINA #5 P. Oregioni Salta 662 Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires Argentina #6 A. Alvarez Chopin 149 norte Santa Lucia (5411) San Juan Argentina Note: If you don't read spanish send me an e-mail and I will send you a translated copy. Believe me, IT's WORTH IT! acurth at usa.net ----- Las puertas del a�o se abren, ----- como las del lenguaje, ----- hacia lo desconocido. ----- Anoche me dijiste: ----- ma�ana habr� que trazar unos signos, ----- dibujar un paisaje, tejer una trama ----- sobre la doble p�gina ----- del papel y del d�a. ----- Ma�ana habr� que inventar de nuevo, ----- la realidad de este mundo. Octavio Paz ________________________________________________ This is a true story! Esta historia es Real! D�as atr�s, cuando "navegaba" por estas p�ginas de Newsgroups, as� mismo como Ud. lo esta haciendo ahora, se me apareci� un art�culo similar a este que dec�a que uno puede ganar miles de d�lares en pocas semanas con una inversi�n de $6.00!. Enseguida pens�, "Oh no! otra estafa m�s?", pero como la mayor�a de nosotros, la curiosidad pudo m�s, y segu� leyendo. Y segu�a diciendo que Ud. enviar� $1.00 a cada uno de los 6 nombres y direcciones mencionados en este art�culo. Entonces Ud. anota su nombre y direcci�n al final de la lista reemplazando al #6, y env�e o ponga este art�culo a por lo menos 200 "Newsgroups"(Hay miles de estos en todo el mundo). Ning�n truco, eso fue todo. La gran diferencia entre este sistema y otros es que Ud. tiene una lista de 6 en vez de 5... Esto significa que su promedio de ganancia ser� aproximadamente 15 veces mayor!!! Despu�s de pensarlo una y otra vez, y consultar con unos amigos primero, decid� probarlo. Pens� que lo �nico que podr�a perder eran 6 estampillas y $6.00, verdad?. Como probablemente muchos de nosotros, estaba un poco preocupado por la legalidad de todo esto. Entonces consult� en las oficinas del Correo Central y me confirmaron que en realidad era legal!! . Entonces invert� mis $6.00......IMAG�NENSE QU�!!!...a los 7 d�as, empec� a recibir dinero por correo!!!. Estaba sorprendido! todav�a pensaba esto terminar� enseguida, y no pens� m�s en otra cosa. Pero el dinero segu�a llegando. En mi primera semana hice unos $20.00 a $30.00 d�lares. Para el final de la segunda semana tenia hecho un total de m�s de $1,000.00!!!!! En la tercera semana recib� m�s de $10,000.00 y todav�a segu�a llegando m�s. Esta es mi cuarta semana ya hice un total de m�s de $41,000.00 y esto sigue llegando m�s r�pidamente(mi esposa e hijos se pasan abriendo los sobres y yo consiguiendo "Newsgroups"). Esto se puso serio!!!! Todo esto realmente vali� la inversi�n de $6.00 y 6 estampillas. Me gastaba m�s que esto en sorteos y loter�as!! Perm�tanme explicarles como funciona esto y lo m�s importante el por qu� funciona....tambi�n, Ud. aseg�rese de imprimir una copia de este art�culo AHORA, para poder sacar toda la informaci�n a medida que lo necesite. El proceso es muy f�cil y consiste en 3 pasos sencillos: PASO No. 1: Obtenga 6 hojas de papel y escriba en cada una de ellas: "FAVOR DE INCLUIRME EN SU LISTA DE CORRESPONDENCIA O E-MAIL". Ahora consiga 6 billetes de US$1.00 d�lar e introduzca cada d�lar en un sobre con la hoja de manera que el billete no se vea a trav�s del sobre!! Mejor ponerlo encerrado en un papel de color oscuro para prevenir robos de correspondencia. **OPCIONAL: Mande una tarjeta postal de su ciudad o pa�s. Ahora Ud. deber�a tener 6 sobres sellados y en ellos un papel con la frase mencionada, su nombre y direcci�n, y un billete de $1.00 d�lar. Lo que Ud. esta haciendo con esto es crear un "servicio" y eso hace que esto sea ABSOLUTAMENTE LEGAL!! Enviar los 6 sobres a las siguientes direcciones: #1 B. Spiegeleer 31 rue de la Montagne de l�Esperou 75015 Paris Francia #2 C. Leyton Bulnes 737 San Bernardo, Santiago Chile #3 A. Curth Azcuenaga 1360 PB2 Buenos Aires, CF 1115 ARGENTINA #4 L Mastrogiacomo Maip� 596 1er piso Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires ARGENTINA #5 P. Oregioni Salta 662 Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires Argentina #6 A. Alvarez Chopin 149 norte Santa Lucia (5411) San Juan Argentina PASO NO. 2: Ahora elimine el #1 de la lista de arriba y mueva los otros nombres un n�mero para arriba (el #6 se convierte en #5, el #5 se convierte en #4, Etc.) y agregue SU NOMBRE y direcci�n como el #6 en la lista. PASO No. 3: Cambie todo lo que crea conveniente de este art�culo, pero trate de mantenerlo lo m�s posible cercano al original. Ahora ponga su art�culo en por lo menos 200 "Newsgroups"(existen m�s de 24,000 grupos). Solo necesita 200, pero cuando m�s cantidad lo ponga, m�s dinero le llegar�!!!. Aqu� van algunas indicaciones de como introducirse en los "Newsgroups": -------------------------------------------------------------- COMO MANEJAR LOS "NEWSGROUPS" -------------------------------------------------------------- No.1> Ud. no necesita redactar de nuevo toda esta carta para hacer la suya propia. Solamente ponga su cursor al comienzo de esta carta, haga click y lo deja presionando y b�jelo hasta el final de la carta y l�rguelo. Toda la carta deber� estar "sombreada". Entonces, apunte y haga click en "edit" arriba de su pantalla, aqu� seleccione "copy. Esto har� que toda la carta quede en la memoria de su computadora. No.2> Abra un archivo "notepad" y lleve al cursor arriba de la p�gina en blanco. Presione "edit" y del menu seleccione "paste". Ahora tendr� esta carta en el "notepad" y podr� agregar su nombre y direcci�n en el lugar #6 siguiendo las instrucciones de m�s arriba. No.3> Grave esta carta en su nuevo archivo del notepad como un .txt file. Y cada vez que quiera cambiar algo ya lo puede hacer. ---------------------------------------------------------------- PARA LOS QUE MANEJAN COMMUNICATOR ---------------------------------------------------------------- Seleccione "message center". 1- Haga doble click sobre "News". 2- Aparecer� la ventana "Subscribe to Discussion Groups". 3-Seleccione los grupos a suscribirse. 4-Presione "suscribe". 5- Presione "OK". 6-Ahora seleccione desde "news" un servidor y mande este documento. ---------------------------------------------------------------- PARA LOS QUE MANEJAN NETSCAPE ---------------------------------------------------------------- No.4> Dentro del programa Netscape, vaya a la "ventana" titulada :Window" y seleccione "netscapeNews". Entonces elija del menu "Options", seleccione "Show all Newsgroups". En segundos una lista de todos los "Newsgroups" de su "server" aparecer�. Haga click en cualquier newsgroup. De este newsgroup haga click debajo de "TO NEWS", el cual deberia estar arriba, en el extremo izquierdo de la p�gina de Newsgroups. Esto le llevar� a la caja de mensajes. No.5> Llene este espacio. Este ser� el t�tulo que ver�n todos cuando recorran por la lista de un grupo en particular. No.6> Marque el contenido completo del .txt file y copie usando la misma t�cnica anterior. Regrese al Newsgroup "TO NEWS" y Ud. esta creando y empastando esta carta dentro de su programa o "posting". No.7> Presione "send" que est� en la parte superior izquierda. Y UD. HA FINALIZADO CON SU PRIMERO!...CONGRATULACIONES!!! . ---------------------------------------------------------------- LOS QUE USAN INTERNET EXPLORER ---------------------------------------------------------------- PASO No. 4: Vaya al Newsgroups y seleccione "Post an Article. PASO No. 5: Carge el art�culo. PASO No. 6: Repita el No.6> m�s arriba. PASO No. 7: Presione el bot�n "Post". -------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________ ES TODO!. Todo lo que tiene que hacer es meterse en diferentes "Newsgroups" y empastarlos, cuando ya tenga pr�ctica, solo le tomar� unos 30 segundos por cada newsgroup! **RECUERDE, CUANTOS M�S NEWSGROUPS CONSIGA, M�S RESPUESTAS (Y DINERO) RECIBIR�!! PERO DEBE DE ENTRAR EN POR LO MENOS 200** YA ESTA!!!.... Ud. estar� recibiendo dinero de todo el mundo, de lugares que ni conoce y en unos pocos d�as!. Eventualmente querr� rentar un P.O.Box por la cantidad de sobres que ir� recibiendo. **ASEG�RESE DE QUE TODAS LAS DIRECCIONES ESTEN CORRECTAS Ahora el POR QU� de todo esto: #6 - De 200 enviados, digamos que recibo solo 5 respuestas (baj�simo ejemplo). Entonces hice $5.00 con mi nombre en la posici�n #6 de esta carta. #5 - Ahora, cada uno de las 5 personas que ya me enviaron los $1.00 tambi�n hacen un m�nimo 200 Newsgroups, cada uno con mi nombre en el #5 de la lista y solo responden 5 personas a cada uno de los 5 originales, esto hace $25.00 m�s que yo recibo #4 - Ahora estas 25 personas pone un m�nimo de 200 Newsgroups con mi nombre en el #4 y solo se recibe 5 respuestas de cada uno. Estar�a haciendo otros $125.00 adicionales. #3 - Ahora esta 125 personas ponen sus m�nimo de 200 grupos con mi nombre en el #3 y solo recibe 5 respuestas cada una, yo recibo un adicional de $625.00!. #2 - OK, aqu� esta la parte m�s divertida, cada una de estas 625 personas ponen sus cartas en otros 200 grupos con mi nombre en el #2 y cada una recibe solo 5 respuestas, esto hace que yo reciba $3,125.00!!!. #1 - Estas 3,125 personas enviar�n este mensaje a un m�nimo de 200 Newsgroups con mi nombre en el #1 y si solo 5 personas responden de los 200 grupos, estar� recibiendo $15,625.00!!. De una inversi�n original de $6.00!! m�s estampillas. FABULOSO! Y como dije antes, que solo 5 personas respondan muy poca, el promedio real seria 20 o 30 personas!. Asique pongamos estos n�meros a calcular. Si solo 15 personas responden, esto hace: en la #6 $15.00 en la #5 $225.00 en la #4 $3,375.00 en la #3 $50,625.00 en la #2 $759,375.00 en la #1 $11,390,625.00 Una vez que su nombre ya no esta en la lista, saque el ultimo anuncio del Newsgroup y env�e otros $6.00 a los nombres en esa lista, poniendo su nombre en el #6 y repetir todo el proceso. Y empezar a ponerlos en los Newsgroups otra vez. Lo que debe recordar es que miles de personas m�s, en todo el mundo, se conectan al Internet cada d�a y leer�n estos art�culos todos los d�as como USTED Y YO LO HACEMOS!!!. As� que creo nadie tendr�a problemas en invertir $6.00 y ver si realmente esto funciona. Algunas personas llegan a pensar..."y si nadie decide contestarme?" Que!! Cu�l es la chance de que esto pas� cuando hay miles y miles de personas honestas (que como nosotros) buscan una manera de tener independencia financiera y pagar cuentas!!!., y estan dispuestas a tratar, pues "No hay peor lucha de la que no se hace". Se estima que existen de 20,000 a 50.000 nuevos usuarios TODOS LOS DIAS! (en todo el mundo) ******************************************* OTRO SISTEMA PARA COMUNICARSE ES CONSIGUIENDO E-MAIL DE PERSONAS PARTICULARES, DEBE SER POR LO MENOS 200 DIRECCIONES, Y ESTO TIENE UNA EFECTIVIDAD DE MINIMO 5% AL 15%. SI SOLO BUSCAN PERSONAS QUE HABLAN ESPA�OL, VAYAN A UN PROVEEDOR DE E-MAILS E IMPRIMAN UN APELLIDO LATINO Y YA. Recuerde de hacerlo esto en forma CORRECTA, LIMPIA Y HONESTAMENTE y funcionar� con toda seguridad. Solamente tiene que ser honesto. Aseg�rese de imprimir este art�culo AHORA, Trate de mantener la lista de todos los que les env�an dinero y siempre f�jese en los Newsgroups y vea si todos est�n participando limpiamente. Recuerde, HONESTIDAD ES EL MEJOR M�TODO. No se necesita hacer trucos con la idea b�sica de hacer dinero en esto! BENDICIONES PARA TODOS, y suerte, juguemos limpio y aprovechar esta hermosa oportunidad de hacer toneladas de dinero con el Internet. **Dicho sea de paso, si Ud. defrauda a las personas poniendo mensajescon su nombre y no env�a ning�n dinero a los dem�s en esa lista, Ud. recibir� casi NADA!. He conversado con personas que conocieron personas que hicieron eso y solo llegaron a colectar unos $150.00, y eso despu�s de unas 7 semanas!. Algunos decidieron probar otra vez, haciendo correctamente, y en 4 a 5 semanas recibieron m�s de $10.000. Esto es la m�s limpia y honesta manera de compartir fortuna que yo jam�s haya visto, sin costarnos mucho excepto un poco de tiempo. El TIEMPO ES IMPORTANTE!, no dejar pasar m�s de 7 d�as del momento que vea este art�culo!. Tambi�n puede conseguir lista de E-MAIL para obtener dinero extra. Sigamos todos las reglas del negocio! Recuerde mencionar estas ganancias extras en sus declaraciones de impuestos. Gracias otra vez y BENDICIONES A TODOS!! From jya at pipeline.com Tue Jan 27 16:06:01 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:06:01 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980128000207.00b86e10@pop.pipeline.com> On "using honey not vinegar" rationale of RPK InvisiMail for obtaining crypto export licenses: Applied Cryptography, Bruce Schneier, 2nd Edition, pp. 215-16 Algorithms for Export Algorithms for export out of the United States must be approved by the U.S. government (actually, by the NSA--see Section 25.1) It is widely believed that these export-approved algorithms can be broken by the NSA. Although no one has admitted this on the record, these are some of the things the NSA is rumored to privately suggest to companies wishing to export their cryptographic products: - Leak a key bit once in a while, embedded in the ciphertext. - "Dumb down" the effective key to something in the 30-bit range. For example, while the algorithm might accept a 100-bit key, most of those keys might be equivalent. - Use a fixed IV, or encrypt a fixed header at the beginning of each encrypted message. This facilitates a known-plaintext attack. - Generate a few random bytes, encrypt them with the key, and then put both the plaintext and the ciphertext of those random bytes at the beginning of the encrypted message. This also facilitates a known-plaintext attack. NSA gets a copy of the source code, but the algorithm's details remain secret from everyone else. Certainly no one advertises any of these deliberate weaknesses, but beware if you buy a U.S. encryption product that has been approved for export. ----- Bruce added the last "beware" phrase to the 2nd edition. From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 27 16:15:10 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:15:10 +0800 Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Message-ID: A bit o'apocrypha for a Monday evening... Cheers, Bob --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:27:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic at bsdi.com Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:14:12 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2668 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Arunas Norvaisa There was a guy in Florida, Cuban by nationality, who had been unable to get US citizenship and was due to be deported. A couple of MIT students, who had heard about this guy and were after a lark, hopped a plane down to Florida and took this guy to a tatoo studio. What they tatooed on to him was the DES algorithm, in some computer readable form. Thus rendering the guy unexportable. The US government offered to scrape the tatoos off, but they guy's lawyers screamed something about human rights abuses. The way I heard it, the guy was eventually granted citizenship. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 27 16:15:11 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:15:11 +0800 Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:54:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic at bsdi.com Subject: Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:41:24 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2674 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org From: "Perry E. Metzger" The story posted is an urban legend. It is NOT an urban legend that someone has been tattooed with "RSA in Perl". A picture of Richard White's tattoo is at: http:/www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo.html It is also not entirely an urban legend that this has been joked about -- a friend of mine (a Greek computer security expert who's name I won't mention) was forced to spend a couple of years back in Greece after completing his PhD because of restrictions on his original visa, and his friends joked heavily about giving him a crypto tatoo to render him non-exportable. However, it was only a joke (albeit one that was told regularly in computer security circles because the person in question is fairly well known among security weenies.) However, the stated story is completely bogus. Perry --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Jan 27 16:16:08 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:16:08 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <199801271453.PAA17516@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801272012.UAA00372@server.eternity.org> Anonymous writes: > At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: > >Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so > >we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what > >we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > > > >Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals > >outside the US to replace the missing pieces. > > Or you can print those sections in a book and let some enterprising > foreigners OCR scan them. Could this process not be simplified by Netscape (hint Tom) having a non-exportable version of the source including all crypto code. Then an interested third party may print it on paper and snail it out of the US, or simply make use of a remailer; either way once it is outside the US we have legal full strength netscape. Another area which could use some attention is that the netscape distribution license seems to result in large european ftp sites carrying only the 40 bit version. Anything that would free up the license might encourage more sites to carry the 128 bit versions. (Such as carried by replay.com and others). Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: Ray Arachelian writes: > > On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > > Clinton said this morning: > > > > >>>> > > I want you to listen to me. I'm > > going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that > > woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time > > -- never. These allegations are false. > > <<<< > > > > The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > > > > Is it oral sex? > > Next thing you know, he'll say "She gave me a blow job, but didn't > swallow, so it's not sex." :) It's true. Bill came on Monica's (black cocktail) dress. "There was a girl named Monica Who liked to play the harmonica." --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Jan 27 16:37:38 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:37:38 +0800 Subject: Kooks and their Kookies Message-ID: <199801280030.SAA20118@manifold.algebra.com> I have just looked into my cookies file, and noticed an interesting kookie (pun intended): www.netscum.net FALSE / FALSE 123456789 visited the%20Home%20Page%2c%20Name%20Q.%20Deleted (Name Deleted is the name of one of the well known USENET personaes, and there is a number instead of 123456789). This is really interesting. If netscum.net ever comes up again, do not view it except through the anonymizer or the crowds, and filter out the kooks' kookies. - Igor. From declan at well.com Tue Jan 27 16:44:01 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:44:01 +0800 Subject: FC: Getting caught on the Net, by Rebecca Eisenberg Message-ID: >X-POP3-Rcpt: declan at relay.pathfinder.com >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:10:15 -0800 (PST) >From: Declan McCullagh >To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >Subject: FC: Getting caught on the Net, by Rebecca Eisenberg >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu >Reply-To: declan at well.com >X-Loop: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >********** > >http://www.examiner.com/skink/skinkJan25.html > >San Francisco Examiner -- Net Skink > >Jan 25, 1998 >Getting caught on the Net > >A wave of shock has washed over the Net population in the >past two weeks. What you write on the Internet, people >realized, can actually get you fired. > >First came the news that Timothy McVeigh, not the bomber >but a 17-year Navy veteran and crew chief on a nuclear >submarine, was recommended for honorable discharge by the >Navy for describing himself as gay on his AOL profile. > >[...] > >For better or for worse, there is not much privacy on-line. >That is the benefit of free expression -- the free >expression we won when the Supreme Court overturned the >overly broad and unconstitutional Communications Decency >Act. However, freedom of expression does not come with a >guarantee that everyone will like what you say. > >"Privacy is not a right, but a preference," writes Declan >McCullagh, 26, Internet expert and journalist in >Washington, D.C. "Some people want it more than others." >Although we are protected from intrusions by the >government, the free exchange of information between >private parties drives the marketplace and the media. > >"The best solution to harmful disclosures is to avoid them >in the first place. Patronize banks, hardware stores and >Internet providers with strong privacy policies," McCullagh >says. "Privacy advocates who call for new government powers >are missing the point. The government intrudes more on our >privacy than corporations ever can. > >"On a more practical note," he continues, "technological >solutions are the only ones that have half a chance of >working globally. Maybe after years of lobbying, you get a >privacy law passed in the U.S., but the Web site you want >to shut down moves to Anguilla 30 minutes later." > >[...] > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From zooko at xs4all.nl Tue Jan 27 16:47:33 1998 From: zooko at xs4all.nl (Zooko Journeyman) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:47:33 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801280041.BAA19241@xs2.xs4all.nl> (A letter to Andy Patrizio of TechWeb, www.techweb.com, Cc: to cypherpunks at toad.com, malda at slashdot.org and gnu at gnu.org. May I remind the audience to use the technique which will benefit your goals rather than harm them: politeness.) Sir, I beg to differ regarding your assertion in "http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980126S0015" that open source code has little value. While your article makes the very good point that a higher level of abstraction (the API level) is a better platform for most "interoperation" or "extension" uses, you omit several important considerations. I will attempt to describe three of those considerations here. The first consideraton is that open source code is of unparalleled value in ensuring security and stability of a complex system. Witness the fact that when the Pentium "F00F" bug was discovered last year, the Linux operating system had a fix distributed within 7 calendar days, while Microsoft took more than twice as long to issue a fix. This is doubly important for mission-critical systems and triply so for security-critical systems which may be subject to hostile attack. Indeed, many computer security professionals of my acquaintance say that they _will_ _not_ use a system to protect valuable data unless they and their peers are able to examine the source code. The second consideration is that an open software development model can (sometimes) generate a surprising amount of quality code at high speed. The pre-eminent example of this phenomenon is the Linux operating system, which in many ways has outstripped comparable proprietary operating systems in performance, features, stability, _and_ in time-to-market. The third value in open source code is more controversial-- it gives your users more control over the product. An all-too- common business tactic in the software industry is, as Scott McNealy calls it, "proprietary lock-in", in which a company deliberately makes their product incompatible with competing products in order to ensure that the customer can't use that product in conjunction with a competitor's product. With the current trend towards a convergence of interoperating software products, this tactic is becoming increasingly oppressive to customers. This tactic is not possible with open source code, because competitors, customers, or free-lance hackers can use the open source in order to make the two products interoperable. Needless to say, not all in the business community would consider this last feature to be a benefit. (Although I think that all in the business community would consider the first two features to be a benefit.) I hope that this letter has been of interest to you. I have been a software developer, industry-watcher, and open-source- code enthusiast for years, and I was grieved to think that your article might deter open-minded readers from considering the full implications of an open source code strategy. The idea of open source code has been a "fringe" concept for decades (see seminal open-source advocate and hacker Richard Stallman, www.fsf.org), and I'm delighted to think that with Netscape's move, and with the rumored possibility that Sun will open some of its Java source, that this idea could finally get a fair hearing before the business community. Regards, Zooko, Journeyman Hacker P.S. Among software professionals that I know, the only ones who make USD 100K/year or more are the ones who consider themselves to be "hackers". :-) From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 27 18:32:45 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:32:45 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801280225.DAA21669@basement.replay.com> >Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields >for a reaction? Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted, I mean how much energy is required or is liberated by a given reaction. I don't mean "...figure the energy, requirements, or yields," or "figure the energy requirements or products it yields." From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 27 18:58:34 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:58:34 +0800 Subject: State of the Onion Router Address In-Reply-To: <199801280225.DAA21669@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: At 6:25 PM -0800 1/27/98, Anonymous wrote: >>Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields >>for a reaction? > >Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted, I mean how much energy is required >or is liberated by a given reaction. I don't mean "...figure the energy, >requirements, or yields," or "figure the energy requirements or products it >yields." Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry class in high school 30 years ago. I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry textbooks. --Tim May ObUnion: "Union" derives from the same Indo-European root word that gave us union and unity and yoke in English, yugo in Slavic languages (hence Yugoslavia), and yoga in Sanskrit. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 27 18:59:57 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:59:57 +0800 Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:08 PM -0800 1/27/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >A bit o'apocrypha for a Monday evening... >Forwarded-by: Arunas Norvaisa > >There was a guy in Florida, Cuban by nationality, who had been unable to >get US citizenship and was due to be deported. A couple of MIT students, >who had heard about this guy and were after a lark, hopped a plane down to >Florida and took this guy to a tatoo studio. What they tatooed on to him >was the DES algorithm, in some computer readable form. Thus rendering the >guy unexportable. The US government offered to scrape the tatoos off, but >they guy's lawyers screamed something about human rights abuses. The way I >heard it, the guy was eventually granted citizenship. Utter bullshit. Extraordinary jokes require extraordinary proof. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From k0zm0z at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 11:00:48 1998 From: k0zm0z at yahoo.com (kozmo killah) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:00:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Response to ticket 012398-6918-403 Message-ID: <19980128190013.19584.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Jan 27 19:15:25 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:15:25 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction Message-ID: <199801280310.VAA21421@manifold.algebra.com> An interesting experiment is to mix the ordinary ammonium nitrate (a fertilizer) with room temp. water. Try to put in as much ammonium nitrate as it is possible to dissolve. You will see the temperature of the mixture DROP to below the freezing point (for pure water that is). Wow. I did that 12 years ago and was amazed. A really easy way to get cold water if no freezer is available. - Igor. From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 27 19:16:14 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:16:14 +0800 Subject: future proofing algorihtms In-Reply-To: <199801221532.JAA28790@email.plnet.net> Message-ID: At 5:18 PM -0800 1/25/98, Adam Back wrote: >Repeat to get back to originator. If we assume 100 message pool size >(probably generous) and chain of length 10, that is 1000 decryptions >which adds equivalent to 10 bits worth of symmetric key size. > >Paranoid stuff yes, but the NSA mixmaster traffic archive doesn't seem >that unlikely. > >It is interesting to note that Tim May's recent suggestion of LAM >(Local Area Mixes) would help here because if 5 of those mixmaster >nodes where part of a LAM, it is unlikely that the NSA would be able >to archive inter remailer traffic, thus increasing effective pool size >to 100^5. So one advantage of the LAM approach is that it provides >links which are protected by physical security. This is a big part of the LAM motivation: to grossly complicate the task of observers watching the traffic. If SWAN or PipeNet is adopted, this obviates this point, but neither seems likely anytime soon. A LAM approach is low tech, and can be implemented easily enough. (And PipeNet becomes much more feasible...) Even an adventurous company, with many machines on various networks, could deploy a LAM on their network. (Though the laws about corporate culpability are written in ways that a Silicon Graphics or Sun or C2Net would have much to fear in having their corporate network associated with a LAM of any sort. Hence my point about many and varied residential users in a physical building being the LAM nodes.) Another point about LAMs is that they are useful as "concentrators" for PipeNet connections. To wit, Suppose someone has deployed a PipeNet connection to another node. Fine, but the NSA and Mossad and GCHQ and other enemies of freedom may watch the traffic flowing into the node feeding that PipeNet connection. So why not do a better job of "loading" this PipeNet connection by having a LAM at the site? Then, watchers see the stuff flowing into the LAM, and have less idea (correlation-wise) of what's then making use of the PipeNet connection. (There are arguments that PipeNet would be immune to this type of correlation, in that a single node feeding a PipeNet connection is as good as N nodes. The devil's in the details. I argue that a LAM feeding a PipeNet connection is at least as secure against monitoring as a single node feeding a PipeNet, and possibly more secure, practically speaking.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From anon at anon.efga.org Tue Jan 27 19:19:39 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:19:39 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <8463c019601705d91ebc98ca08ee4e29@anon.efga.org> >I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear >idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily >explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive >heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts >(in this case table salt) and water. Interesting thread. While we're on the topic of chemistry and heat: Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields for a reaction? My college chemistry book doesn't say a whole lot about it. In fact it doesn't say enough to actually be useful at all; it gives energies for four or five different bonds in a table and then launches into a really bad explanation of how to calculate this. If I have to use a table of bond energies is there one available online? Or is there a simpler way to just calculate the bloody things? I really ought to take more chemistry courses before I get my diploma. Or at the very least audit them. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jan 27 19:49:38 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:49:38 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801280338.EAA00309@basement.replay.com> Another Anonymous writes: >>Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields >>for a reaction? > >Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted, I mean how much energy is required >or is liberated by a given reaction. I don't mean "...figure the energy, >requirements, or yields," or "figure the energy requirements or products it >yields." It has been fifteen years since I even opened a chemistry book, but I think what you're looking for is called the "heat of enthalpy." You could find this in most any intro-level chem book, and there's probably a whole shitload of reactions listed in the _CRC Handbook Of Chemistry & Physics_. Since HCl+NaOH is an acid-base reaction, you could also use something called the "heat of neutralization." IIRC, that's something like 57 KJ/mol for strong acids. But don't take my word for it; I'm Not A Chemist Any More. P-Chem gave me a great appreciation for math and computers. From schear at lvdi.net Tue Jan 27 19:59:14 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:59:14 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: >ANOTHER VERSION OF QUANTUM TELEPORTATION is >being published by researchers in Italy and England (Francesco >DeMartini, University of Rome, demartini at axcasp.caspur.it). Like >the Innsbruck teleportation scheme published several weeks earlier >(Update 351), this demonstration employs a pair of entangled >photons. Whereas the Innsbruck experiment teleported the >polarization value of a third, distinct "message photon" to one of >the entangled photons, the Rome scheme encodes one of the >entangled photons with a specific polarization state and transmits >this state to the other entangled photon. Although different from the >Innsbruck experiment (which had a 25% teleportation success rate) >and the original theoretical proposal for teleportation, this scheme >works 100% of the time if the receiver applies the right >transformations on the second photon. I wonder how far off use of this technique for interplanetary rovers might be (10 years, 20 years)? Remote (Earth) rover manipulation is tedious at best due to several minutes (or an hour or more to the outer planets) of propagation delay. Autonomous rovers need enough smarts built-in to handle unexpected situations, a non-trivial problem. An alternative is to establish a link using entangled photons. If a simple approach to saving these entangled states during signal transit, in both directions, were found instantaneous communication and simplified remote control would be a reality. Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in remote locations. Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal modulation using polarization. If we've discovered this trick, sure so have other intelligent life forms. Most natural sources of radiation tend to unpolarized, so a rapidly flucuating polar modularion might easily appear to be noise. --Steve From emc at wire.insync.net Tue Jan 27 20:18:04 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:18:04 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801280310.VAA21421@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801280413.WAA08034@wire.insync.net> Igor writes: > An interesting experiment is to mix the ordinary ammonium nitrate > (a fertilizer) with room temp. water. Try to put in as much ammonium > nitrate as it is possible to dissolve. > You will see the temperature of the mixture DROP to below the freezing > point (for pure water that is). > Wow. I did that 12 years ago and was amazed. A really easy way to get > cold water if no freezer is available. And for those who may think that endothermic reactions violate some basic law about entropy always increasing, I should point out that the increase in entropy from the uniform mixing of two different materials can more than compensate for the decrease in temperature. Ain't science wonderful? -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 20:18:49 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:18:49 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280418.WAA04044@einstein.ssz.com> Hi Steve, Can I forward your questions to another technology list I support as well as the local high performance rocketry group I'm involved in? I believe they would be intriqued by your questions. Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:56:33 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) > > >ANOTHER VERSION OF QUANTUM TELEPORTATION is [text deleted] > I wonder how far off use of this technique for interplanetary rovers might > be (10 years, 20 years)? Remote (Earth) rover manipulation is tedious at > best due to several minutes (or an hour or more to the outer planets) of > propagation delay. As I understand the process you don't get around the speed-of-light issue because the control channel still needs to be sent via radio or laser or whatever. This was discussed in the in the original teleportation announcement. However, I don't see anything that would keep you from syncing two atomic clocks and then using them to make the changes in sync, this should allow the imposition of the speed of light only on initiation and occassion syncronization. I'll have to beg ignorance on specifics as I haven't had the time to really dig into specifics. I haven't even read the primary references to date. > Autonomous rovers need enough smarts built-in to handle > unexpected situations, a non-trivial problem. An alternative is to > establish a link using entangled photons. If a simple approach to saving > these entangled states during signal transit, in both directions, were > found instantaneous communication and simplified remote control would be a > reality. Agreed. It would also solve many terrestrial problems as well. > Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for > several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a > real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might > someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy > without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in > remote locations. True, but it would be boring compared to being there first person. I do support robot exploration as a precursor to manned exploration. > Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal modulation > using polarization. >From what little I have delved into this, most signals coming in from 'out there' as well as from satellites are circularly polarized. This is the reason that the antennas have those curly-ques on them (look like a cork-screw sorta). The last time I even messed with extra-terrestrial signals was the SL-9 impacts. I worked with several amateur groups using plane (flat rectangular) loop antennas to measure the increase in the background noise in various bands (we used a HP spectrum analyzer at my site) during the impacts. What we saw was a 'jump' across the band of several db's just at the time-of-flight times we expected. The assumption being this was caused by the impacts. We monitored 1MHz to 10MHz. I found it pretty impressive. We got, if memory serves, around 6 of the large impacts. > If we've discovered this trick, sure so have other > intelligent life forms. Most natural sources of radiation tend to > unpolarized, so a rapidly flucuating polar modularion might easily appear > to be noise. I'll have to disagree, all forms of E-M radiation that I am aware of are polarized to some frame of reference. The E-M fields after all are orthogonal. The question is which field you want to pick as a reference and the relationship of source to sensor. Circularly polarized (ie the fields rotate around the axis of transmission at some rate) are about the only sort that would appear essentialy the same irrespective of reference frame. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 27 20:29:38 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:29:38 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801271757.LAA14080@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> Message-ID: <8yVZJe14w165w@bwalk.dm.com> John Blair writes: > >> It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all > >> about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be > >> all that extensive taste-testing... > >> > >> - Frondeur > > > Bobbi Inman is a cocksucker. > > Ahh... I remember now why I re-subscribed to Cypherpunks. It was for > all of the intelligent discussion that goes on here. At least back > in the days of Detweiler the character assassination was creative and > often fun to read. > > Can you please keep childish shots like this in private e-mail? It > has no place in this mailing list. Bobbi Inman takes it up the ass too. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Tue Jan 27 20:36:18 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:36:18 +0800 Subject: future proofing algorihtms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > A LAM approach is low tech, and can be implemented easily enough. (And > PipeNet becomes much more feasible...) I agree. > Even an adventurous company, with many machines on various networks, could > deploy a LAM on their network. There are several such companies outside the US that I can think of. > (Though the laws about corporate culpability are written in ways that a > Silicon Graphics or Sun or C2Net would have much to fear in having their > corporate network associated with a LAM of any sort. Hence my point about > many and varied residential users in a physical building being the LAM > nodes.) Sure. A LAM would not happen at any of the above companies. But there are several non-US ISP's and other outfits with triple fiber to the backbone that could set this up. [You know who I am talking about, lurkers. :-) How about it]? > Another point about LAMs is that they are useful as "concentrators" for > PipeNet connections. To wit, > > Suppose someone has deployed a PipeNet connection to another node. Fine, > but the NSA and Mossad and GCHQ and other enemies of freedom may watch the > traffic flowing into the node feeding that PipeNet connection. > > So why not do a better job of "loading" this PipeNet connection by having a > LAM at the site? Then, watchers see the stuff flowing into the LAM, and > have less idea (correlation-wise) of what's then making use of the PipeNet > connection. That setup would work even better if operated by a major ISP. If you run 10% of a country's (and be it a small country) IP traffic through a LAM, the computations an attacker has to perform become complex to the point of being intractable. Especially if the ISP runs dial-up. [Lurkers, your thoughs please]? Of course we won't see such sites until somebody writes the software. Cypherpunks write code, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 27 20:38:18 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:38:18 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 7:56 PM -0800 1/27/98, Steve Schear wrote: >I wonder how far off use of this technique for interplanetary rovers might >be (10 years, 20 years)? Remote (Earth) rover manipulation is tedious at >best due to several minutes (or an hour or more to the outer planets) of >propagation delay. Autonomous rovers need enough smarts built-in to handle >unexpected situations, a non-trivial problem. An alternative is to >establish a link using entangled photons. If a simple approach to saving >these entangled states during signal transit, in both directions, were >found instantaneous communication and simplified remote control would be a >reality. Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals faster than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by reading the FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) I personally doubt that any flat spacetime topology (e.g., wormholes excepted) will admit any FTL signals. A lot of things would dramatically change if FTL communication existed...not the practical "communication" issues, which are human social minutiae, but issues about synchronization of reference frames and causality violations. > >Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for >several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a >real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might >someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy >without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in >remote locations. Who's your supplier? --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Tue Jan 27 20:38:48 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:38:48 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <8463c019601705d91ebc98ca08ee4e29@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: Get a Chemisty 101/2 book. You must have been in the bone head chemistry class. On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > >I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > >idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > >explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > >heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > >(in this case table salt) and water. > > Interesting thread. While we're on the topic of chemistry and heat: > > Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields > for a reaction? My college chemistry book doesn't say a whole lot about it. > In fact it doesn't say enough to actually be useful at all; it gives > energies for four or five different bonds in a table and then launches into > a really bad explanation of how to calculate this. > > If I have to use a table of bond energies is there one available online? Or > is there a simpler way to just calculate the bloody things? > > I really ought to take more chemistry courses before I get my diploma. Or at > the very least audit them. > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jan 27 20:40:58 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:40:58 +0800 Subject: Kooks and their Kookies In-Reply-To: <199801280030.SAA20118@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) writes: > I have just looked into my cookies file, and noticed an interesting > kookie (pun intended): > > www.netscum.net FALSE / FALSE 123456789 visited the%20Home%20P > > (Name Deleted is the name of one of the well known USENET personaes, > and there is a number instead of 123456789). > > This is really interesting. If netscum.net ever comes up again, do not > view it except through the anonymizer or the crowds, and filter out the > kooks' kookies. You can find *most* of netscum at this URL: http://www.spambusters.dyn.ml.org/www.netscum.net/index.html It does do very interesting things with cookies. it also allows you to customize the typeface, the size, and the color of the text using the cookie. Be sure at least to watch the cookies coming in on this and any other site. Would there be any interest if I put an anootated netscape cookie file (cypherpunks cookie potluck) someplace like geocitie.com? Also a composite blockfile for junkbusters and other filtering proxies. A really neat feature for ad-filtering proxies would be to be able to place a specified picture (or at least a black rectangle) over a jpg or gif file being received from a URL that matches a specified pattern. I'm not sufficiently handy with graphics file formats to tell how easy this would be. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 20:44:17 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:44:17 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280442.WAA04344@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:34:48 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 > (fwd) > Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals faster > than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by reading the > FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) The actual transportation of the state is instantanious as it must be by quantum theory, just as the change in orbits of an electron occurs instantly. However, the catch is that the command/synchronization channel must be sent in parallel and it at some point can't use the quantum transportation technique and hence the speed-of-light comes back into play. This was specificaly discussed in the original quantum transportation announcement sent out by AIP. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From mnorton at cavern.uark.edu Tue Jan 27 20:48:03 1998 From: mnorton at cavern.uark.edu (Mac Norton) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:48:03 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801271757.LAA14080@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> Message-ID: Now I remember why i resubscribed to punks. It was so I could laugh at the guys who deplore the irrelevant irreverence that makes you whackos' messages worth a diddly to begin with. MacN On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, John Blair wrote: > > Ahh... I remember now why I re-subscribed to Cypherpunks. It was for > all of the intelligent discussion that goes on here. At least back > in the days of Detweiler the character assassination was creative and > often fun to read. > > Can you please keep childish shots like this in private e-mail? It > has no place in this mailing list. > > -john. > > > > ...................................................................... > . . > .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair at uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . > . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . > ..sys|net.admin.... . > . the university computer center ..... > ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3a > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBNM4gCgJjTpK3AXhBAQHC/QQArCwnCHSCzgmUGjGkGtAEtkwnsiq8rbF8 > a8Ov/LKuFJslK8osLKawD+38nnY9Y3K4kvgnIT2EPRRrEzu2MxO7CKb2J/ly4QVZ > xPbQ357GlmnCWmHvgECY7A20iPjgAO/z+8t9OEkCPv47E6C9+yzPdUXtWZ6Uwp4h > uy/7Dm5eCkA= > =nH/J > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 27 20:48:17 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:48:17 +0800 Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:58 pm -0500 on 1/27/98, Tim May wrote: > Utter bullshit. Agreed. On several levels of reference, I think... > Extraordinary jokes require extraordinary proof. Indeed. Hence my use of the word "apocrypha" to introduce it. And the OxDEADBEEF list moderator's use of "ULotD", for, it seems, "Urban Legend of the Day". Note Perry Metzger's follow-on, which I also forwarded at the same time. (You remember Perry, right? He liked to talk about cryptography here once... Yeah, Tim, I know. You *knew* Perry Metzger, and, frankly, Mr. Hettinga, yada, yada, yada) Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Jan 27 20:53:54 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:53:54 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801280413.WAA08034@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801280432.WAA22267@manifold.algebra.com> Eric Cordian wrote: > Igor writes: > > An interesting experiment is to mix the ordinary ammonium nitrate > > (a fertilizer) with room temp. water. Try to put in as much ammonium > > nitrate as it is possible to dissolve. > > You will see the temperature of the mixture DROP to below the freezing > > point (for pure water that is). > > Wow. I did that 12 years ago and was amazed. A really easy way to get > > cold water if no freezer is available. > > And for those who may think that endothermic reactions violate some basic > law about entropy always increasing, I should point out that the increase > in entropy from the uniform mixing of two different materials can more > than compensate for the decrease in temperature. Ain't science wonderful? I did understand the above, but thanks anyway Eric. What I still do not understand though is what happens between the water and ammonium nitrate that consumes so much energy. I mean, okay, you need to spend energy to mix these two things. Then, logically, they should not "want" to mix, right? But empirically, ammonuim nitrate literally sucks water vapors from the air. How come? - Igor. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 21:00:35 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:00:35 +0800 Subject: update.350 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280500.XAA04568@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From physnews at aip.org Wed Dec 10 16:59:59 1997 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 14:35:44 EST From: physnews at aip.org (AIP listserver) Message-Id: <9712101935.AA25024 at aip.org> To: physnews-mailing at aip.org Subject: update.350 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 350 December 10, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein QUANTUM TELEPORTATION has been experimentally demonstrated by physicists at the University of Innsbruck (Anton Zeilinger, 011-43-676-305-8608, anton.zeilinger@ uibk.ac.at; Dik Bouwmeester, Dik.Bouwmeester at uibk.ac.at). First proposed in 1993 by Charles Bennett of IBM (914-945-3118), quantum teleportation allow physicists to take a photon (or any other quantum-scale particle, such as an atom), and transfer its properties (such as its polarization) to another photon--even if the two photons are on opposite sides of the galaxy. Note that this scheme transports the particle's properties to the remote location and not the particle itself. And as with Star Trek's Captain Kirk, whose body is destroyed at the teleporter and reconstructed at his destination, the state of the original photon must be destroyed to create an exact reconstruction at the other end. In the Innsbruck experiment, the researchers create a pair of photons A and B that are quantum mechanically "entangled": the polarization of each photon is in a fuzzy, undetermined state, yet the two photons have a precisely defined interrelationship. If one photon is later measured to have, say, a horizontal polarization, then the other photon must "collapse" into the complementary state of vertical polarization. In the experiment, one of the entangled photons A arrives at an optical device at the exact time as a "message" photon M whose polarization state is to be teleported. These two photons enter a device where they become indistinguishable, thus effacing our knowledge of M's polarization (the equivalent of destroying Kirk).What the researchers have verified is that by ensuring that M's polarization is complementary to A's, then B's polarization would now have to assume the same value as M's. In other words, although M and B have never been in contact, B has been imprinted with M's polarization value, across the whole galaxy, instantaneously. This does not mean that faster-than-light information transfer has occurred. The people at the sending station must still convey the fact that teleportation had been successful by making a phone call or using some other light-speed or sub-light-speed means of communication. While physicists don't foresee the possibility of teleporting large-scale objects like humans, this scheme will have uses in quantum computing and cryptography. (D. Bouwmeester et al., Nature, 11 Dec 1997; see also www.aip.org/physnews/graphics) DO EARTHQUAKES HAVE ELECTRICAL PRECURSORS? The elastic waves measured by seismometers are transmitted by the flexing crust while an earthquake is doing its worst. But some scientists believe that flexing also goes on in the hours and even weeks before a quake. Too small to be detected seismically, the flexing might well be sensed electrically. As underground strata rearrange themselves before a quake, the thinking goes, pockets of water are squeezed into new configurations, changing local conduction properties, which can be monitored with buried electrodes. On this basis Panayiotis Varotsos at the University of Athens (011-30-1-894-9849, pvaro at leon.nrcps.ariadne-t.gr), has reportedly predicted certain quakes in Greece weeks ahead of time by triangulating voltage differentials at the level of 10 millivolts/km over distances of 100 km. (Some skeptics dispute this assertion.) In new research, Varotsos buttresses his claims with laboratory studies of another system under pressure which puts out transient electrical signals before it fractures, namely a crystal containing a variety of dislocations and defects. Conductivity patterns in the crystal convince Varotsos that analogous patterns (although on a much bigger distance scale) observed in the buried electrode arrays constitute a true earthquake precursor. (Varotsos et al., Journal of Applied Physics, 1 Jan, 1998; journalists can obtain the paper from physnews at aip.org.) From emc at wire.insync.net Tue Jan 27 21:01:29 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:01:29 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801280458.WAA08097@wire.insync.net> Steve Shear postulates: > Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored > for several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars > is a real possibility. And in whose local Lorentz frame would such communication be "instantaneous"? > Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it > might someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of > the galaxy without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness > to vessels in remote locations. Uh, no. The operators for corresponding observables at both ends of such an experiment commute, so it is not possible to transmit information non-locally using such an apparatus. This was discovered when the first experiments to verify the Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky effect were done. You need the results of measurements on the opposite end to decrypt the information at the end you are at. The Dancing Wu-Li Masters are closed for business. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 21:05:20 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:05:20 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280504.XAA04662@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:58:28 -0600 (CST) > > Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored > > for several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars > > is a real possibility. > > And in whose local Lorentz frame would such communication be > "instantaneous"? Actualy, if we are talking about instantanious events the event itself is not frame relevant, thought exactly when and where the event occurred may be. Consider an electron when it changes orbitals does so in zero time. So the question that the photon was emitted is not at issue, now where that photon came from and at what clock tick may in fact be. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From anon at squirrel.owl.de Tue Jan 27 21:06:23 1998 From: anon at squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:06:23 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <9368cd36f48cad9082a5752cc79eec8e@squirrel> >Well, if it was 40 grams of NaOH and 36.5 grams of HCl, then you >would have 18 grams of water and 58.5 grams of NaCl. With 1g HCl to >.5g NaOH, well, you have an acidic, salty, mess. However, HCl >is a gas at STP, and NaOH is a solid... > >Basically, it's an incredibly poorly worded question. It looks like the original poster grabbed two of the simplest acids and bases he could find and plugged them into the question. HCl is usually provided in an aqueous solution. NaOH is a solid. In those two states they'll combine quite well with each other. The "explosion and a big mess" would come from somebody just chucking a lot of both chemicals together without any regard what is going on. I think Anonymous was more interested in what products were produced and how much of each were produced, and then made the mistake of assuming that the chemist had enough brains not to go chuck two reactive chemicals together without the competence to run through the necessary calculations. Throwing together any amount of any chemicals without knowing what you're doing is a very bad idea. It's a good way to "accidentally" produce chlorine gas, carbon monoxide, or worse. If you don't know what you're doing or you aren't at least minimally competent and take appropriate safety precautions, keep it on paper. Personally, I steer clear of college and high school chemistry labs for this reason. I watched some idiot produce chlorine gas back in high school, though thankfully not in any really, really dangerous quantities. NaOH + HCl ---> NaCl + H O 2 It's a nice, simple reaction. To answer the question the student would have to know the atomic masses of chlorine, hydrogen, oxygen, and sodium, but that could easily be gleaned off a periodic table provided the student was competent enough to ask for one if he needed it. I doubt most college chemistry professors would analyze it that well either, to tell you the truth. They'd give the question and it's assumed that the necessary steps are taken to ensure a reaction (if any). Of course "normal circumstances" is kind of a wide area. The question should have been worded more like this: 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. The HCl is dissolved in water. Assuming that Michelle is competent enough to avoid blowing herself across the room or destroying the lab, what are the products and in what quantities are they produced? From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au Tue Jan 27 21:12:10 1998 From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:12:10 +0800 Subject: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: <01ISWZV6P6C200AYSF@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Hi guys, If I could get access to the source, understand all of it fully, and understand how it will act under Win95 with whatever compiler they used, I could probably write my own. So I guess it comes down to trust. Thanks for the replies. Bye for now. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Honig [SMTP:honig at otc.net] > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 5:08 AM > To: Pearson Shane; 'William H. Geiger III' > Cc: 'cypherpunks at toad.com' > Subject: RE: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > > At 03:46 PM 1/23/98 +1100, Pearson Shane wrote: > >Hi William, > > > >Many thanks for the reply. > > > >I was hoping it was ok having Blowfish, > >but I guess it could be their own > >"efficient" version. > > > >Bye for now. > > > > WHGIII gave you the most conservative answer. That is, in cryptology, > the > correct answer. > > A more detailed analysis would say: > > * the blowfish algorithm is considered strong for various reasons > > * IFF the Norton program were written correctly > (not just the algorithm implementation, but key hiding, > worrying about getting swapped onto disk by the OS, etc.) > then it would be a useful tool for security. > > * Without examining the source, any assumption of security > from using the tool relies *absolutely* on your trust of the > implementor. > > (In a Turing award paper, Ritchie described how you > implicitly must trust your compiler-writers too.. the > compiler could have clandestine functions like inserting > extra code when it recognizes patterns) > > So you see how WHGIII was correct, although for practical > purposes (depending on the value of your data and the > attackers you anticipate, plus the security of the rest of your > system (only as strong as the weakest link)) you may find this tool > acceptable > in the non-exportable version. Keylength-limited versions are > worthless > from a security viewpoint. > > But on this mailing list, you won't find the yes/no answer > you probably want. Which is probably correct behavior for this list. > > Cheers, > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David Honig Orbit Technology > honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu > > "The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much > more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jan 27 21:17:49 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:17:49 +0800 Subject: Clinton for Nobel Peace Prize [CNN] Message-ID: <199801280515.XAA04830@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Clinton Nominated For Nobel Peace Prize > > OSLO, Norway (Reuters) - President Clinton, engulfed in asex scandal > and fighting for his political life, won anomination Tuesday for the > 1998 Nobel Peace Prize from admirersof his foreign policy. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From geeman at best.com Tue Jan 27 21:23:26 1998 From: geeman at best.com (geeman at best.com) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:23:26 +0800 Subject: sat survailience Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980127210104.006c5f24@shell15.ba.best.com> At 03:06 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > >--- begin forwarded text > > >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:55:09 -0500 >From: Somebody >Subject: sat survailience >To: rah >MIME-version: 1.0 > >Bob - something else to be paranoid about! > > > >When Is a Satellite Photo An Unreasonable Search? > >By IMPORTANT INFORMATION RESTORED AFTER INEXPLICABLE DELETION: >Staff Reporter of WALL STREET JOURNAL> ... ETC ... From alan at clueserver.org Tue Jan 27 21:51:42 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:51:42 +0800 Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127214312.03fd8160@clueserver.org> At 05:14 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >From: "Perry E. Metzger" > > >The story posted is an urban legend. > >It is NOT an urban legend that someone has been tattooed with "RSA in >Perl". A picture of Richard White's tattoo is at: > >http:/www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo.html It is also true that he had a typo in the tattoo. It seems someone, who will remain unnamed, joked about "what if it has a typo, is it still a violation of ITAR?". Seems they decided to proof read it. "Doh!" --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From alan at clueserver.org Tue Jan 27 21:52:34 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:52:34 +0800 Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127214433.03fe71b0@clueserver.org> At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: >Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > >Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >outside the US to replace the missing pieces. Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au Tue Jan 27 21:58:09 1998 From: Shane.Pearson at tafensw.edu.au (Pearson Shane) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:58:09 +0800 Subject: More dumb ad sites for your killfile Message-ID: <01ISX1DJ3ZQA00C0LU@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Hi all, Can I have a killfile for Outlook 97 or am I limited to the Inbox assistant? Thanks, > -----Original Message----- > From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com [SMTP:dlv at bwalk.dm.com] > Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 5:50 PM > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: Re: More dumb ad sites for your killfile > > nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > > ads.lycos.com > > ad.doubleclick.net > > ads.altavista.digital.com > > ad.preferences.com > > ph-ad*.focalink.com > > www.news.com/Banners > > ads.lycos.com > > static.wired.com/advertising > > A desirable feature for a proxy would be to filter portions of what it > gets. > If we're getting a URL that matches a pattern (like > www.stocks.hotshit.com), > then once we see a certain pattern in the HTML (start of embedded ad), > excise the HTML until we see another pattern. A set of triples. > > My block file so far is much bigger than yours. Anyone cares to keep > the > official big blocklist? :-) > > ********************************************************************** > **** > victory.cnn.com/(image|click).ng/ > /fox/graphics/yuppie.gif > ads.web.aol.com > /*/rsac.jpg > /gifs/ads/ > webtrack.com > # look for guesttrack > /.*/rsacirated.gif > /shell-cgi/adserv/ads > /adserver/ > /ad-graphics/ > /cgi-win/tracker > /cgi-bin/Count > /cgi-bin/guesttrack > webcrawler.com/icons/(tenants.*|bottom_logo).gif > netads.*.com/ > mckinley.com/img/magellan/butnbar.gif > #hotbot.com > hotbot.com/images/list.*.gif > # > banner-net.com/ > /cgi-bin/nph-count > # yahoo > /us.yimg.com/images/compliance/ > # Internet explorer logos > /.*/ie.*_(animated|static|sm).gif > /.*/netnow.*.gif > pagecount.com > gm.preferences.com > # da Silva's stupid list of mailing lists > /internet/paml/sponsors > /gifs/mlogo3.gif > #dejanews > /gifs/tripod.gif > /gifs/browsers.gif > /gifs/dnlogo_r.*.gif > # domains > smartclicks.com/ > resource-marketing.com/ > valueclick.com/ > bannermall.com/ > iname.com/ > bannerweb.com/ > eads.com/ > /interdex/reciprocal/ > /cgi-bin/spim/sp/ > adforce..*.com/ > /cgi-bin/adclick > imageserv.imgis.com/images/ > /g/ads/ > # > /graphics/ads/ > /OAS/ugo/adstream.cgi/ > /content/cgi-bin/clickad/ > /content/advertising/ > /.*/(S|s)ponsors/.*.gif > /cgi-bin/pn/show_ad > /gif/ads/ > .*banner.*.gif > /ad/ > /adgenius/ > /adproof/ > /(A|a)ds/ > /adv/ > /advertising/ > /adverts/ > /avimages/ > /banner_ds/ > /banners/ > /banners?/ > /CategoryID=0 > /cgi-bin/ad-bin/ > /cgi-bin/adroll/ > /cgi-bin/counter* > /cgi-bin/nph-adlick > /event.ng/ > /gfx/spon/ > /gifs/netfinity.gif > /gifs/tripod2.gif > /graphics/pcast.gif > /graphicsadvert > /image/ads/ > /images/ABCnewsa.gif > /images/ads/ > /images/deckad1.gif > /images/getpoint1.gif > /images/nyyahoo.gif > /images/partners/ > /images/promo/ > /img/ads/ > /img/art4/home/promo/ > /inserts/images/ > /ml/gfx/spon/ > /pictures/sponsors/ > /promobar > /promos/ > /promotions/ > /RealMedia/ads/ > /shared/images/marketing/ > /sponsor.*/.*.gif > 209.25.19.47/ > :23 > ad.*.com/ > adserve.*.com/ > ad.*.net/ > adcount.hollywood.com/ > ads*.focalink.com/ > ads.*.com/ > bannersolutions.com/ > bannerswap.com/ > counter.digits.com/ > digits.com/ > doubleclick.com/ > flycast.com/ > freestats.com/ > globaltrack.com/ > globaltrack.net/ > gp.dejanews.com/ > guide.infoseek.com/ > infoseek.com/images/channel/ > hitbox.com/ > hollynxxx.com/ > icount.com/ > jcount.com/ > linkexchange.com/ > register-it.com > riddler.com/ > sexhound.com/ > sexlist.com/ > stattrax.com/ > style.rahul.net/altavista/adverts/ > # Geocities > www.geocities.com/cgi-bin/homestead/GeoGuideLite_image* > geocities.com/MemberBanners > xpagecount.com/ > xxxcounter.com/ > ********************************************************************** > **** > More stuff that I need to sort out: > > adsmart.net > doubleclick.net > SmartBanner > imageserv.imgis.com/images > images.yahoo.com/adv > /ad_client.cgi > > # ms sucks ! > /*.*/(ms)?backoff(ice)?.*.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/(msie|sqlbans|powrbybo|activex|backoffice|explorer|netnow|getpoin > t|ntbutton|hmlink).*.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/activex.*(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/explorer?.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/freeie.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/ie_?(buttonlogo|static?|anim.*)?.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/ie_sm.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/msie(30)?.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/msnlogo.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/office97_ad1.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/pbbobansm.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/powrbybo.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/sqlbans.(gif|jpe?g) > > # generally useless information and promo stuff (commented out) > #/*.*/(counter|getpcbutton|BuiltByNOF|netscape|hotmail|vcr(rated)?|rsa > ci(rated)?|freeloader|cache_now(_anim)?|apache_pb|now_(anim_)?button|i > e_?(buttonlogo|static?|.*ani.*)?).(gif|jpe?g) > > #------------------------ > # > # specific servers > # > #------------------------ > 193.158.37.3/cgi-bin/impact > 193.210.156.114 > 194.231.79.38 > 199.78.52.10 > 204.253.46.71:1977 > 204.94.67.40/wc/ > 205.216.163.62 > 205.217.103.58:1977 > 205.217.103.58:1977 > 206.50.219.33 > 207.159.135.72 > 207.82.250.9 > 209.1.135.144:1971 > 209.1.135.142:1971 > ad-up.com > ads?.*\.(com|net) > ad.adsmart.net > ad.doubleclick.net > ad.infoseek.com > ad.linkexchange.com > ad.preferences.com > adbot.com > adbot.theonion.com > adcount.hollywood.com > adforce.imgis.com > adlink.deh.de > adone.com > ads*.focalink.com > ads*.zdnet.com > ads.csi.emcweb.com > ads.imagine-inc.com > ads.imdb.com > ads.infospace.com > ads.lycos.com > ads.narrowline.com > ads.realmedia.com > ads.softbank.net/bin/wadredir > ads.usatoday.com > ads.washingtonpost.com > ads.web.aol.com > ads.web21.com > adservant.mediapoint.de > banners.internetextra.com > bannerswap.com > bs.gsanet.com/gsa_bs/ > ciec.org/images/countdown.gif > click1.wisewire.com > click2.wisewire.com > clickii.imagine-inc.com:1964 > commonwealth.riddler.com > customad.cnn.com > cyberfirst1.web.cerf.net/image.ng/ > digits.com/wc/ > dino.mainz.ibm.de > flycast.com/ > globaltrack.com > globaltrak.net > gm.preferences.com/image.ng > gtp.dejanews.com/gtplacer > hardware.pagecount.com/ > hitbox.com/wc/ > hyperbanner.net > icount.com/.*.count > images.yahoo.com/promotions/ > imageserv.imgis.com > impartner.de/cgi-bin > linktrader.com/cgi-bin/ > logiclink.nl/cgi-bin/ > movielink.com/media/imagelinks/MF.(ad|sponsor) > nrsite.com > nt1.imagine-inc.com > nt2.imagine-inc.com > nytsyn.com/gifs > pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin > pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin > ph-ad*.focalink.com > promo.ads.softbank.net > resource-marketing.com/tb/ > smartclicks.com/.*/smartimg > smh.com.au/adproof/ > sysdoc.pair.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/sysdoc/sponsor.gif > victory.cnn.com/image.ng/spacedesc > videoserver.kpix.com > w20.hitbox.com > www..bigyellow.com/......mat.* > www.ads.warnerbros.com > www.fxweb.holowww.com/.*.cgi > www.iadventure.com/adserver/ > www.infoworld.com/pageone/gif > www.isys.net/customer/images > www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-ad > www.link4link.com/cgi-bin > www.mediashower.com/ad-bin/ > www.nedstat.nl/cgi-bin/ > www.nj.com/adverts > www.nrsite.com > www.pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin > www.search.com/Banners > www.smartclicks.com:81 > www.swwwap.com/cgi-bin/ > www.valueclick.com/cgi-bin/ > www.websitepromote.com/partner/img/ > www.wishing.com/webaudit > yahoo.com/CategoryID=0 > > #------------------------ > # > # some images on servers that I frequently visit > # > #------------------------ > > # some images on cnn's website just suck! > /*.*/book.search.gif > /*.*/cnnpostopinionhome..gif > /*.*/custom_feature.gif > /*.*/explore.anim.*gif > /*.*/infoseek.gif > /*.*/pathnet.warner.gif > /BarnesandNoble/images/bn.recommend.box.* > /digitaljam/images/digital_ban.gif > /hotstories/companies/images/companies_banner.gif > /markets/images/markets_banner.gif > /ows-img/bnoble.gif > /ows-img/nb_Infoseek.gif > cnnfn.com/images/left_banner.gif > > # die sueddeutsche > /*.*/images/artszonnet.jpg > > # yahoo.de > /promotions/bankgiro/ > > # > /gif/buttons/banner_.* > /gif/buttons/cd_shop_.* > /gif/cd_shop/cd_shop_ani_.* > > #altavista > /av/gifs/av_map.gif > /av/gifs/av_logo.gif > > /*.*/banner_ads/ > /*.*/banners?/ > /*.*/images/addver.gif > /*.*/place-ads > /*.*/promobar.* > /*.*/publicite/ > /*.*/reklame/ > /*.*/sponsor.gif > /*.*/sponsors?[0-9]?/ > /*.*/werb\..* > /ad_images/ > /bin/nph-oma.count/ct/default.shtml > /bin/nph-oma.count/ix/default.html > /cgi-bin/nph-load > /netscapeworld/nw-ad/ > /worldnet/ad.cgi > /rotads/ > /rotateads/ > /rotations/ > /promotions/houseads/ > ********************************************************************** > **** > > --- > > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM > Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, > 14.4Kbps From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Tue Jan 27 22:27:51 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:27:51 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Ryan Anderson wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > [snip] > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > >From my high-school chemistry, neutralization makes slatwater and a lot of > heat.... (Or that's what the teacher claimed)... Without a way to dump > the pressure generated this way, yes you could have an explosion... > Time to go back to high school. It's just a molocule swap. From snow at smoke.suba.com Tue Jan 27 22:37:55 1998 From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:37:55 +0800 Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: <19980125.091156.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: <199801280634.AAA07810@smoke.suba.com> > since the Korean war, American involvement in foreign wars, > or the war effort, has escalated in relationship to the > needs of the economy --the war effort boosts industrial > utilization --eg money and the economy-- and Americans vote > with their pocketbooks. World War II. > I frankly dont believe you made that suggestion --the damage > would not be to the government, but to our fellow citizens > who have been ordered to commence action. I did not agree Not if used properly. It could properly be used to _delay_ engagement, or even avoid it. Besides, they (and I was one at one time) volunteered. Most every one in the military now has had the chance to leave since Cliton took office. Their continued enlistment is support. > regardless of the immorality and stupidity of Clinton, there > is no justification, and certainly no honour, for permitting > KIA American troops to be dumped into the spectacle of being > dragged through the streets of Somalia, etc. If those with the power were to make sure that they never got there, then they couldn't be dragged thru the streets now could they? From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 27 22:47:53 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:47:53 +0800 Subject: Exporting Code the Easy Way In-Reply-To: <34CD53FD.363A9C8C@netscape.com> Message-ID: At 9:44 PM -0800 1/27/98, Alan Olsen wrote: >At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: > >>Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >>we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >>we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. >> >>Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >>outside the US to replace the missing pieces. > >Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> Or even easier option: Dispense with the actual scanning and OCRing and simply _say_ the code was OCRed. Or, for that matter, don't even bother to say. U.S. Customs and the ITARs/EARs have no provisions for asking international users if the version they are using was compiled from source code printed in books! (This was my recommended approach for the PGP job...use the code off the CD-ROM, carried out in someone's luggage or mailed or sent over the Net, and then _say_ the OCRing was done....it's not as if U.S. Customs has any authority to question someone in Amsterdam or Denmark and demand proof that they really spent those hundreds of hours laboriously scanning and OCRing and proofreading....) Why do things the hard way? Seriously, when the code people use internationally is used, just who the hell cares whether it was ever scanned from a book or not? That only affects the issue of _export_, which is mooted anyway by the utter triviality of exporting software on CD-ROMs, DATs, through the mail, via FedEx and Airborne, through remailers, and on and on and on. Nobodu using "PGP International Version" has to worry one whit, no pun intended, about whether the code came from an original PGP distribution, or source code scanned and OCRed, so long as it checks out properly. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From amp at pobox.com Tue Jan 27 22:49:38 1998 From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:49:38 +0800 Subject: Fw: Congratulations, Bill, You've WON! Netscape Recommends Explorer! In-Reply-To: <199801271704.LAA18643@lawgiver.megacity.org> Message-ID: FYI. ------------------------ From: Linda Thompson Subject: Congratulations, Bill, You've WON! Netscape Recommends Explorer! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:04:00 -0600 To: amp at pobox.com Cc: news at aen.org, chat at aen.org Will you please forward this to cypherpunks and anyplace else that might find it interesting? Thanks. Today, I called Netscape because of a problem with it being unable to play .wav files on a webpage (without a plug-in). I am using Netscape Gold 3.03. I won't get 3.04 after reading about it's new "fixes" that say NOT to use a ~ for webpage addresses, but instead, to use /./ -- Is anyone in their right mind going to try that on their webpages? I've got about 40 megs of webpages and I'm NOT going to reconfigure them because Netscape's programmers are a bunch of jackasses. I configured Netscape's helper applications menu to use mplayer, which is bundled with Windows, and then tried to use it to browse my own webpage, with a .wav file on it. (1) Netscape would not save the configuration of mplayer in the helper applications settings. Mplayer would stay in the configuration for that session, but upon exiting to DOS and reloading Windows and Netscape, the setting would no longer be present. (2) If I didn't check to see that mplayer was still set up in the Netscape helper applications configuration, and browsed the page with the .wav file, I would get a message from Netscape "Unable to play .wav file." In the meantime, Netscape WIPED OUT all my sound drivers in memory. They were still present in the windows/system directory, but had to be (1) reloaded through Windows Utilities; (2) reloaded through Soundblaster utilities in DOS and (3) I had to do a cold reboot to get them to work again. THEN I found that the volume on the mixer that comes with Windows, had been set to "0" by Netscape. Since I could duplicate these results, repeatedly, it appeared to be a bug. I called Netscape about it. GRADY WILSON AT NETSCAPE TOLD ME TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER. First he told me to reinstall Netscape (already did that). Then he told me to get Netscape 3.04. I told him I wouldn't and I wanted to know why Netscape out of the box, which is SUPPOSED to play a .wav file, wouldn't play a .wav file and wouldn't save the configuration. He said it would, and I said obviously it doesn't, or I wouldn't be calling, and why else would Netscape have to have a blue million "plug ins." Next he said "mplayer" was corrupt (it isn't and works fine, even with Netscape, so long as Netscape hasn't yet deleted its own configuration setting mplayer to play .wav files). I told him this. That is when GRADY WILSON AT NETSCAPE TOLD ME TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER. So, congratulations, Bill, you've won. NETSCAPE ITSELF is now telling people to get Explorer. ************ V ***************** DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER ********************************** Remember Waco. The Murderers are still free (and running YOUR country.) See the proof: http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum ********************************* My son, David, has been missing since Sept. 19, 1997. Please help us find him. ---------------End of Original Message----------------- === E-mail: amp at pobox.com Date: 01/28/98 Time: 06:45:54 Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL #!/bin/perl -sp0777i Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote: > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > [snip] > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > (in this case table salt) and water. > > while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the > means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that > "rule". > > PHM. > Actually the qustion is probably hosed, as the ratio should be 1:1 Hcl:NaOH mol, not weight (which would be about 10:9 Hcl:NaOH or so if I'm not confused here) ... the idea being that if you calculate and measure just right, you can mix too highly dangerous chemicals and will get saltwater which you can drink. If you don't measure just right, and drink it, you are rightly fucked, so don't try this at home. Can't find exact delta-h listed for NaOH, but rough guess on this reaction is maybe 150,000 - 175,000 joules, or about half a box of kitchen matches worth of heat (~150-175 btu ?), which wouldn't boil a quart of water. I suppose if you had a small enough solution you could get a small "bang" out of vaporizing the water. Not exactly a terrorist threat. A moderate amount of heat, but without increasing the number of molecules, where's the explosion? Am I missing something? Looks like warm saltwater to me. OTOH, I don't know anything about chemistry 'cuz I always got kicked outa class for doing dumber things than mixing Hcl and NaOH and drinking it, which is the usual stunt. Don't try this at home, and don't take chemistry advice from marsupials. btw - didn't really "do the math" on this, and it's 2am, so it could be wildly innacurate. -r.w. From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Tue Jan 27 23:26:21 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:26:21 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote: > > > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > > [snip] > > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > > > I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > > idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > > explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > > heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > > (in this case table salt) and water. > > > > while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the > > means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that > > "rule". > > > > PHM. > > > > Actually the qustion is probably hosed, as the ratio should be 1:1 > Hcl:NaOH mol, not weight (which would be about 10:9 Hcl:NaOH or so if I'm > not confused here) ... the idea being that if you calculate and measure > just right, you can mix too highly dangerous chemicals and will get > saltwater which you can drink. If you don't measure just right, and drink > it, you are rightly fucked, so don't try this at home. > > Can't find exact delta-h listed for NaOH, but rough guess on this reaction > is maybe 150,000 - 175,000 joules, or about half a box of kitchen matches > worth of heat (~150-175 btu ?), which wouldn't boil a quart of water. I > suppose if you had a small enough solution you could get a small "bang" > out of vaporizing the water. Not exactly a terrorist threat. > > A moderate amount of heat, but without increasing the number of > molecules, where's the explosion? Am I missing something? Looks like warm > saltwater to me. OTOH, I don't know anything about chemistry 'cuz I > always got kicked outa class for doing dumber things than mixing Hcl and > NaOH and drinking it, which is the usual stunt. Don't try this at home, > and don't take chemistry advice from marsupials. > > btw - didn't really "do the math" on this, and it's 2am, so it could be > wildly innacurate. > > -r.w. > > Ooops, 178,000 joules w/ 1 mol each (about 36 grams Hcl & 40 grams NaOH), so the "one gram each" example (wrong unit of measure, btw), assuming about 1/40 the quantity, would be about 4450 joules, or about five kitchen matches. bfd. OTOH, IANAC(hemist). Looks like the answer to the original question would be "somewhat salty ammonium hydroxide", with the given quantities. Don't drink (drano) and drive. -r.w. From schear at lvdi.net Tue Jan 27 23:46:03 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:46:03 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801280442.WAA04344@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 10:42 PM -0600 1/27/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:34:48 -0800 >> From: Tim May >> Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 >> (fwd) > >> Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals faster >> than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by reading the >> FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) > >The actual transportation of the state is instantanious as it must be by >quantum theory, just as the change in orbits of an electron occurs instantly. >However, the catch is that the command/synchronization channel must be >sent in parallel and it at some point can't use the quantum transportation >technique and hence the speed-of-light comes back into play. This was >specificaly discussed in the original quantum transportation announcement >sent out by AIP. I don't understand why a command/synch channel is required. Why aren't the coding techniques commonly used in telecom and disk data encoding adequate to both synchonize and convey data? --Steve From schear at lvdi.net Tue Jan 27 23:46:14 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:46:14 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356(fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >This was discovered when the first experiments to verify the >Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky effect were done. You need the results of >measurements on the opposite end to decrypt the information at the end you >are at. I guess I'm over my head in such matters. From my, admitedly, shallow understanding of wave function collapse, etc., I was under the apparent misimpression that once collapsed (e.g., by Alice entangling a 'modulation' photon M (of a known polarization) with one member (photon A) of an entangled pair, one of which was sent to Alice and the other (photon B) which was sent to Bob, photon B's polarization state was determined and could not subsequently be altered by Bob's measurement with his receiver. Could you recommend a good article which explain this paradox to a non-quantum mechanic? --Steve From schear at lvdi.net Tue Jan 27 23:49:37 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:49:37 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 8:34 PM -0800 1/27/98, Tim May wrote: >At 7:56 PM -0800 1/27/98, Steve Schear wrote: >>Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for >>several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a >>real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might >>someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy >>without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in >>remote locations. > >Who's your supplier? EPR Pharmaceuticals. Want their address? --Steve From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 28 01:07:58 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:07:58 +0800 Subject: feedME account In-Reply-To: <199801271349.IAA17868@thunder.ica.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128013237.00884c00@popd.ix.netcom.com> Normally I'd try to get the cypherpunks mailing list removed from this mailing list, but a web-based open news reader looks like a useful thing to have, and it looks like they try to do advertising on the web pages rather than sending out lots of email. The password is limited to 8 characters, so it's now writecod :-) At 08:49 AM 1/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >----------------------------------------------------------- > feedME - the world's easiest newsreader > http://www.feedME.org >----------------------------------------------------------- > >Your Username is: cypherpunks >Your Password is: kimkdqof > >If you have any problems, queries or suggestions please email: > admin at feedme.org > >You should change your password as soon as possible (if >you haven't already done so), the address for changing it is: > http://www.feedme.org/changepass.html > >Remember that we don't allow anyone to SPAM through feedME, >nor do we let people post any form of commerical or web-site >advertisements - if you are unclear always mail admin. > >Regards, >Michael Bennett >Creator of feedME > > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 28 01:53:28 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:53:28 +0800 Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128133041.0088ec40@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 11:21 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 9:58 pm -0500 on 1/27/98, Tim May wrote: >> Utter bullshit. >Agreed. On several levels of reference, I think... Well of course it was! But a well-crafted urban legend, with enough truth and enough deliberate bogosity to be worthwhile. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 28 01:53:43 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:53:43 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801280418.WAA04044@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128133959.0088d310@popd.ix.netcom.com> >> Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal >> modulation using polarization. Speaking of SETI, their current intent is to do a distributed computation spread across thousands of computers, similar to some of the keycracking efforts. Details at http://www.bigscience.com ; the Recent News section says they're currently trying to figure out about funding. Meanwhile, there's www.mersenne.org for factoring big prime numbers. Tim wrote: > Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate > signals faster than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. > Start by reading the FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) But I thought Jim Bell had a solution to ..... :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 28 02:33:02 1998 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:33:02 +0800 Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127090723.008012c0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980128020312.006b2420@popd.netcruiser> Years ago, when Clinton was primarily known for his frequent patronage of McDonalds, he was affectionately known as "Mr. JoeBlob." With the current sex scandal(s), you can turn that around and it still fits... From threebbc at club-internet.fr Wed Jan 28 03:14:29 1998 From: threebbc at club-internet.fr (BOUSTANI) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:14:29 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801281106.MAA05137@mail.club-internet.fr> Hello Frank, My is Jacques BOUSTANI , I live in Paris & i'm a student in computer science. I learn about you from my teacher. I think he doesn't know you or talk to you but he tell us about how to cracked windows 95 .pwl or NT. So i'm interested. I would like to know how to do it. If you won't to tell me, by the way i thanks you. I hope that your reply would interest me .* Thanks Mr Stevenson. 3BBC SYSTEM BOUSTANI PARIS From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Jan 28 03:17:41 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:17:41 +0800 Subject: typo in tattoo (Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos.) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127214312.03fd8160@clueserver.org> Message-ID: <199801280949.JAA00421@server.eternity.org> Alan Olsen writes: > At 05:14 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > >From: "Perry E. Metzger" > > > > > >The story posted is an urban legend. > > > >It is NOT an urban legend that someone has been tattooed with "RSA in > >Perl". A picture of Richard White's tattoo is at: > > > >http:/www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo.html > > It is also true that he had a typo in the tattoo. It seems someone, who > will remain unnamed, joked about "what if it has a typo, is it still a > violation of ITAR?". Seems they decided to proof read it. "Doh!" There was a typo in the tattoo, fortunately it was correctable, they missed out a backtick (`). You can see this on the tattoo gif referenced above: it says ...$_=echo "16... and it should say ...$_=`echo "16... I pointed this out to Richard White when he sent me the gif of his tattoo, and he had his wife put in the backtick, as there is a reasonable amount of space between the = and e of echo. If anyone wants to repeat the exercise, the perl/dc program is smaller now: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199801281029.KAA00449@server.eternity.org> Tim May writes: > At 9:44 PM -0800 1/27/98, Alan Olsen wrote: > >At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: > > > >>Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so > >>we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what > >>we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > >> > >>Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals > >>outside the US to replace the missing pieces. > > > >Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> > > Or even easier option: > > Dispense with the actual scanning and OCRing and simply _say_ the code was > OCRed. Or, for that matter, don't even bother to say. U.S. Customs and the > ITARs/EARs have no provisions for asking international users if the version > they are using was compiled from source code printed in books! > > Why do things the hard way? Agree strongly. The problem is not in the export, which as Tim says happens soon enough anyway, as anyone can verify looking at www.replay.com where a good collection of 128 bit browsers can be obtained. The problem is netscape's distribution license. I tried to work out why netscape is only carried at certain sites, and why all of the sites which do carry it carry 40 bit. The answer seems to be that even though the netscape browser is free for academic use, that netscape tries to control distribution by requiring distributing sites to sign their distribution license. Netscape's motive for this restrictive distribution license I presume is an attempt to reduce risk of hacked copies (say with virususes embedded) being distributed. By keeping the number of sites controlled (albeit by weak legal mechanism) they keep the sites to a small number of large reputable ftp sites. This leads to the conclusion that the best thing netscape could do is: - not distribute a 40 bit version in electronic form at all, forcing overseas sites to keep 128 bit versions - have shrink wrap 40 bit versions sold overseas if they must, but have strict license prohibiting electronic distribution - modify the distribution license to allow free distribution of the 128 bit version (none of this distributors must sign a license) - ensure that the license on the purchased 40 bit version allows one to use the freely obtained 128 bit version in a commercial setting Problem solved. No need to fiddle around with printing source code in books, or to waste time remove crypto calls and hooks from source code, nor waste some one elses time recoding the omitted code. So, how about it netscape? Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: rn > The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that > cultivated from his foreskin scrapings. > > ,/ \, > ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole > `--)~ ~(--` > .-'( )`-, > `~~`d\ /b`~~` > | | > (6___6) > `---` > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Wed Jan 28 03:28:11 1998 From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:28:11 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: rn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Wed Jan 28 03:28:13 1998 From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:28:13 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that > cultivated from his foreskin scrapings. > > ,/ \, > ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole > `--)~ ~(--` > .-'( )`-, > `~~`d\ /b`~~` > | | > (6___6) > `---` > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 06:31:53 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:31:53 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281428.IAA06743@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:44:50 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 > (fwd) > I guess I'm over my head in such matters. From my, admitedly, shallow > understanding of wave function collapse, etc., I was under the apparent > misimpression that once collapsed (e.g., by Alice entangling a 'modulation' > photon M (of a known polarization) with one member (photon A) of an > entangled pair, one of which was sent to Alice and the other (photon B) > which was sent to Bob, photon B's polarization state was determined and > could not subsequently be altered by Bob's measurement with his receiver. > Could you recommend a good article which explain this paradox to a > non-quantum mechanic? The state is determined *at the time of collapse*. Once the collapse occurs the synchronization is no longer present and subsequent events can indeed alter the polarization of one particle without altering the other. Simply bouncing that photon via refraction off a surface can alter the polarization. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cyber at ibpinc.com Wed Jan 28 07:25:33 1998 From: cyber at ibpinc.com (Roger J Jones) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:25:33 +0800 Subject: Tim May as censor?????????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com> >Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." >Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for >various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry >class in high school 30 years ago. >I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry >textbooks. >--Tim May Tim, Can this be? Censorship from the man on the mountain? So unlike you...... From paulmerrill at acm.org Wed Jan 28 07:40:45 1998 From: paulmerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:40:45 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CF78E9.5F29@acm.org> Rabid Wombat wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote: > > > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > > [snip] > > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > > > I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > > idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > > explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > > heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > > (in this case table salt) and water. > > > > while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the > > means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that > > "rule". > > > > PHM. > > > > Actually the qustion is probably hosed, as the ratio should be 1:1 > Hcl:NaOH mol, not weight (which would be about 10:9 Hcl:NaOH or so if I'm > not confused here) ... the idea being that if you calculate and measure > just right, you can mix too highly dangerous chemicals and will get > saltwater which you can drink. If you don't measure just right, and drink > it, you are rightly fucked, so don't try this at home. > > Can't find exact delta-h listed for NaOH, but rough guess on this reaction > is maybe 150,000 - 175,000 joules, or about half a box of kitchen matches > worth of heat (~150-175 btu ?), which wouldn't boil a quart of water. I > suppose if you had a small enough solution you could get a small "bang" > out of vaporizing the water. Not exactly a terrorist threat. > > A moderate amount of heat, but without increasing the number of > molecules, where's the explosion? Am I missing something? Looks like warm > saltwater to me. OTOH, I don't know anything about chemistry 'cuz I > always got kicked outa class for doing dumber things than mixing Hcl and > NaOH and drinking it, which is the usual stunt. Don't try this at home, > and don't take chemistry advice from marsupials. > > btw - didn't really "do the math" on this, and it's 2am, so it could be > wildly innacurate. > > -r.w. yes, the quantities are small, thus total heat is small, but so is the mass to be heated (who cares idf it will boils a quart when we are talking about a couple of grams). Explosion is perhaps a poor choice of words, but I would not like to be in the spatter zone of it either. PHM From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 28 08:25:16 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:25:16 +0800 Subject: Exporting Code the Easy Way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801281636.LAA25477@users.invweb.net> In , on 01/28/98 at 01:46 AM, Tim May said: >At 9:44 PM -0800 1/27/98, Alan Olsen wrote: >>At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: >> >>>Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >>>we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >>>we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. >>> >>>Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >>>outside the US to replace the missing pieces. >> >>Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> >Or even easier option: >Dispense with the actual scanning and OCRing and simply _say_ the code >was OCRed. Or, for that matter, don't even bother to say. U.S. Customs >and the ITARs/EARs have no provisions for asking international users if >the version they are using was compiled from source code printed in >books! >(This was my recommended approach for the PGP job...use the code off the >CD-ROM, carried out in someone's luggage or mailed or sent over the Net, >and then _say_ the OCRing was done....it's not as if U.S. Customs has any >authority to question someone in Amsterdam or Denmark and demand proof >that they really spent those hundreds of hours laboriously scanning and >OCRing and proofreading....) >Why do things the hard way? >Seriously, when the code people use internationally is used, just who the >hell cares whether it was ever scanned from a book or not? That only >affects the issue of _export_, which is mooted anyway by the utter >triviality of exporting software on CD-ROMs, DATs, through the mail, via >FedEx and Airborne, through remailers, and on and on and on. Nobodu using >"PGP International Version" has to worry one whit, no pun intended, about >whether the code came from an original PGP distribution, or source code >scanned and OCRed, so long as it checks out properly. I think that this was a legal decision by PGP, Inc. not out of concern by the people doing the scanning overseas. I believe that they were trying to sheild themselves from another lenghty court battle with the Feds but still be able to make the source code available. Unfortunatly PGP is nolonger the product of crypto-anarchists but is now owned by the "suits" who tend to tread lightly in such matters (shareholders realy don't care about crypto-anarchy principles unless there is financial gain in doing so). -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981 From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Jan 28 08:26:42 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:26:42 +0800 Subject: Tim May as censor?????????? In-Reply-To: <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Message-ID: <199801281640.LAA25623@users.invweb.net> In <199801281519.JAA04493 at pc1824.ibpinc.com>, on 01/28/98 at 09:22 AM, "Roger J Jones" said: >>Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." >>Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for >>various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry >>class in high school 30 years ago. >>I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry >>textbooks. >>--Tim May >Tim, >Can this be? Censorship from the man on the mountain? So unlike you...... Please, There is nothing wrong requesting a poster put forth the bare minimum of research before wasting the time of list members with trivial questions. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster? Throw it harder! From Friend at public.com Thu Jan 29 00:47:58 1998 From: Friend at public.com (Friend at public.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:47:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Just Released! 16 Million! Message-ID: <50636853_56125305> IT WAS JUST RELEASED!! INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1 We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! 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(outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) DATE_____________________________________________________ NAME____________________________________________________ COMPANY NAME___________________________________________ ADDRESS_________________________________________________ CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________ PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________ FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________ TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: ______VISA _____MASTERCARD CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________ NAME ON CARD___________________________________________ AMOUNT $____________________ (Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________ DATE:x__________________ You may fax your order to us at: 1-908-245-3119 CHECK BY FAX SERVICES! If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119 ****************************************************** ***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119 ******************************************************* If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance. If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail, please send all forms and Check or Money Order to: JKP Enterprises 700 Boulevard Suite 102 Kenilworth, NJ 07033 From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Wed Jan 28 09:16:26 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:16:26 +0800 Subject: Tim May as censor?????????? In-Reply-To: <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Message-ID: "Roger J Jones" writes: > >Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." > > >Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for > >various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry > >class in high school 30 years ago. > > >I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry > >textbooks. > > >--Tim May > > Tim, > Can this be? Censorship from the man on the mountain? So unlike you...... In this particular case, it's not censorship to point out that the original posted might get more complete and accurate information by consulting a simple chemistry text[1] than by posing his question in a forum where most people don't give a flying fuck about simple chemistry questions. (He also wouldn't waste evebody's fucking time, but he clearly gives even less of a fling fuck about other people's time than about his own fucking time.) [1] One really Good Thing Jim Bell could do while on probation is to write a good simple chemistry book. "Stink Bombs for Dummies" "How to make mustard gas in your own kitchen" --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From attila at hun.org Wed Jan 28 09:17:35 1998 From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:17:35 +0800 Subject: can you believe the Bulgarians? Message-ID: <19980128.170644.attila@hun.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- can you believe it? a site dedicated to declaring they believe Bubba is innocent! --and have a petition. you can join Jack The Ripper, Ted Kaczynski, Ted Bundy, JFK, and a host of others in support of free oral sex in the Whitehouse. just type your nym and vote early and vote often. 1300+ hits and less than 100 marks. Monica was quoted as saying she was "going to Washington to get her presidental knee pads." enjoy... http://faith.digsys.bg/prj/clinton/clinton.html attila out again... in disbelief that "the Creep" is still President! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNM9leLR8UA6T6u61AQHYMwH/Sge0rVd2cYoE6gJyPCXBxf8kpNdvogB8 bsYdhV5/zwQJIdSVX+fGRLl6fdi+Qugdiii6dMP/2Y2jFDFIpYzHIg== =/k4R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jya at pipeline.com Wed Jan 28 09:31:18 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:31:18 +0800 Subject: New D.C./C.A. Judge Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980128172632.00c5e838@pop.pipeline.com> One of twelve appointments announced today by the White House: DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA COURT OF APPEALS Emilio W. Cividanes, D.C. Court of Appeals Mr. Cividanes, of Washington, D.C., is of counsel to the law firm Piper & Marbury, L.L.P. Since 1991, Mr. Cividanes has taught information privacy law as an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center. Before joining Piper & Marbury as an associate in 1988, he served one year as counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Technology & the Law, under then-Chairman Senator Patrick Leahy. From 1983 to 1986, he was a civil litigation associate with the law firm of Dickstein, Shapiro & Morin. Mr. Cividanes received his B.A. in 1979, from Haverford College and his J.D. in 1983, from the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where he was a comment editor on the Law Review. From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 09:44:12 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:44:12 +0800 Subject: Measure of information-v-time (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281739.LAA07399@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, As a result of a completely non-crypto interest a discussion recently came up about how information worth/accuracy goes down with time. A proposal was made that I thought might be of some interest as a base for discussions of data havens and how to treat the relative worth of information. Forwarded message: > From: "Richard A. Flores" > Subject: Re: dates in UWPs? > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:33:49 -0600 > Reply-To: traveller at mpgn.com > SD Mooney wrote: > > >Put it [the date notation] in the extended data set (as posted > >by Marc) as a single (hex) code eg M0 is 0, etc and expand > >as new milieus arise. This removes the problem of linking to > >the dating system and adding in a -tve for Milieus prior to > >M0. I mean, an Ancients set would otherwise be -200000! > > > Perhaps a simple logarithmic notation. Something like: > code > # Years since last survey > 0 0 to 3 years > 1 3 to 7 years > 2 7 to 20 years > 3 20 to 55 years > 4 55 to 148 years > 5 148 to 403 years > 6 403 to 1,097 years > 7 1,097 to 2,981 years > 8 2,981 to 8,103 years > 9 8,103 to 22,026 years > A 22,026 to 59,874 years > B 59,874 to 162,755 years > C 162,755 to 442,413 years > D 442,413 to 1,202,604 years > E 1,202,604 to 3,269,017 years > F 3,269,017 to 8,886,111 years > > This single hexadecimal # would give us a time scale beyond anyone's > estimates of possible dates on useful intelligence. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From sunder at sundernet.com Wed Jan 28 10:09:51 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:09:51 +0800 Subject: Spyking snips: Police MDT's + cia/russian spying Message-ID: 2)From: "Brandon Robinson" Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's >14)From: "self destruct" < >Subject: Monitoring MDT's >hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's >(mobile display terminals) >i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to >p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you Since no one else seemed to respond to this, I guess I will...first off M.D.T. stands for (Mobile Data Terminals), I got this posting off some group I can't really remeber where from, but it is informative, and was the subject of a Feb, '97 "911Dispatcher Magazine" story. It should answer all of your questions, I also have a list of some places where you can buy the unit pre-made, or a kit to make your own. I have left the Source code out on purpose as it is rather lengthy, if you want it I can send it to you. -BBR ----------------------- Begin quoted article ---------------------- >From lord at heaven.com Mon Dec 23 23:11:43 EST 1996 Article: 44420 of alt.radio.scanner Subject: MDT stuff Greetings one and all, Have you ever lusted to decode Mobile Data Terminal (MDT) tranmissions? Have you ever wanted to see the same NCIC and motor vehicle information that law enforcement officers see? Have you ever wanted to see what officers send to each other over "private" channels? And all this with an interface you can build with only a few dollars worth of parts from your local radio shack? If so this posting might be your rendevous with destiny. The tail end of this posting includes the source code of a program that decodes and displays MDT messages. It stores roughly 30k of messages in a buffer and then writes the whole buffer to a file called "data.dat" before terminating. The program may be interrupted at any time by pressing any key (don't use control-c) at which point it writes the partially filled buffer to "data.dat". This program only works for systems built by Motorola using the MDC4800 tranmission protocol. This accounts for a large fraction of public service MDT systems as well other private systems. The existence of this program is ample evidence that Motorola has misrepresented its MDT systems when it marketed them as a secure means of communcications. The interested reader will soon discover that these systems do not use any form of encryption. Security concerns instead have been dealt with by using a code. "And what might this code be called?" asks the reader. The code turns out to be plain ASCII. What follows is a brief description of how the program and the MDC4800 protocol work. If you don't understand something go to your local library and check out a telecommunications theory book. 1. The raw transmission rate is 4800 baud. The program's interrupt service routine simply keeps track of the time between transitions. If you're receiving a perfect signal this will be some multiple of 1/4800 seconds which would then give you how many bits were high or low. Since this is not the best of all possible worlds the program instead does the following: transitions are used to synchronize a bit clock. One only samples whenever this clock is in the middle of the bit to produce the raw data stream. This greatly reduces jitter effects. 2. Whenever a tranmitter keys up the MDC4800 protocol calls for bit synchronization (a sequence of 1010101010101010....). In the program this will result in receive bit clock synchronization. There is no need to specifically look for the bit sync. 3. Look for frame synchronization in raw bit stream so that data frames can be broken apart. Frame synchronization consists of a 40 bit sequence : 0000011100001001001010100100010001101111. If this sequence is detected (or 35 out of 40 bits match up in the program) the system is idling and the next 112 bit data block is ignored by the program. If the inverted frame sync is detected one immediately knows that 112 bit data blocks will follow. 4. Receive the 112 bit data block and undo the bit interleave. This means that one must reorder the bits in the following sequence : {0,16, 32,48,64,80,96,1,17,33,49,65,81,97,2,18,34,...} if the orignal sequence were received as {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...}. 5. Check the convolutional error correcting code and count the number of errors. The error correcting code is rate 1/2 which means we will be left with 56 data bytes. The encoder is constructed so that the output consists of the original data bits interspersed with error correcting code. The generating polynomial used is : 1 + X^-1 + X^-5 + X^-6 Whenever an error is detected a counter is incremented. An attempt is made to correct some errors by finding the syndrome and looking for the bogus bit. 6. Keep receiving 112 bit data blocks until either a new frame sync is found or two consecutive data blocks have an unacceptably large number of errors. 7. Each data block consists of six data bytes; the last 8 bits are status bits that are simply ignored. The program shows the data in two columns - hexadecimal and ASCII. This data is kept in a buffer and is written to the file "data.dat" when the program terminates. 8. What the program doesn't do: As a further check on the data there can be CRC checks. This varies from protocol to protocol so this program does not implement the CRC checks. Nonetheless, it is a relatively trivial matter to find the generating polynomial. The addresses, block counts, and message ID numbers are also quite easy to deduce. As you can see, there is no encryption. The bit interleave and the error correcting coding are there solely to insure the integrity of the ASCII data. Since any moron could have figured this stuff out from scratch one could argue that MDTs do not use "...modulation parameters intentionally witheld from the public". Therefore the Electronic Communications Privacy Act may not prohibit receiving MDT tranmissions. However, consult your attorney to make sure. The total disregard for security will no doubt annoy countless Motorola customers who were assured that their MDT systems were secure. Since Federal law states that NCIC information must be encrypted your local law enforcement agency might be forced to spend millions of dollars to upgrade to a secure MDT system - much to the delight of Motorola and its stockholders. Cynics might conclude that the release of a program like this is timed to coincide with the market saturation of existing MDT systems. Also, this program is completely free and it had better stay that way. What's to prevent you from adapting this into a kit and selling it >from classified ads in the back of Nuts and Volts? Nothing. But take a look at Motorola's patents sometime. You'll notice that this program does things that are covered by a shitload of patents. So any attempt to take financial advantage of this situtation will result in utter misery. Please keep the following in mind: this program only works with the first serial port (COM1). If your mouse or modem is there too bad. If you don't like this rewrite the program. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What equipment do I need? RADIO SCANNER: A scanner that can receive 850-869 MHz. For those of you who don't know, this is the band where most business and public service trunked radio systems can be found along with the mobile data terminal transmissions. Chances are excellent that if your local authorities have a motorola trunked radio system and mobile data terminals that this is the frequency band in use. Very rarely will one find mobile data terminals in other frequency bands. Now for the fun part - your scanner should probably be modified to allow you to tap off directly from the discriminator output. If you wait until the signal has gone through the radio's internal audio filtering the waveform will likely be too heavily distorted to be decoded. This is exactly the same problem that our friends who like to decode pager transmissions run into - some of them have claimed they can only decode 512 baud pager messages using the earphone output of their scanner. These mobile data terminal messages are 4800 baud so I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell without using the discriminator output. If you don't know where to begin modifying your scanner you might want to ask those who monitor pagers how to get the discriminator output for your particular radio. COMPUTER/SCANNER INTERFACE Those of you who have already built your interface for decoding pager messages should be able to use that interface without any further ado. For those starting from scratch - you might want to check out packages intended for pager decoding such as PD203 and the interfaces they describe. The following excerpt gives an example of a decoder that should work just fine (lifted out of the PD203 POCSAG pager decoder shareware documentation): > > 0.1 uF |\ +12v > ---||-----------------------|- \| > AF IN | |741 \ > ---- | | /--------------------- Data Out > | \ ------|+ /| | CTS (pin 5/8) > | / 100K | |/-12v | or DSR (pin 6/6) > | \ | | > GND / ----/\/\/\---- GND ------ GND (pin 7/5) > | | 100K > | \ N.B. Pin Numbers for com port are > GND / given as x/y, where x is for a 25 > \ 10K way, y for a 9 way. > / > | > GND > > The above circuit is a Schmitt Trigger, having thresholds of about +/- 1v. > If such a large threshold is not required, eg for a discriminator output, > then the level of positive feedback may be reduced by either reducing the > value of the 10K resistor or by increasing the value of the 100K feedback > resistor. > > The +/- 12v for the op-amp can be derived from unused signals on the COM > port (gives more like +/- 10v but works fine !):- > > > TxD (2/3) --------------|<-------------------------------------- -12v > | | > RTS (4/7) --------------|<-------- GND - - > | | _ + 10uF > --------->|------- - - | > Diodes 1N4148 | - + 10uF GND > | | > DTR (20/4) ------------->|-------------------------------------- +12v > If I were building this circuit I would strongly suggest tying the non-inverting (+) input of the op-amp to ground since you are working directly with the discriminator output and don't need a Schmitt trigger. All these parts or equivalents are easily available (even at your local Radio Shack which stocks the finest collection of components that have failed the manufacturer's quality control checks and supported by a sales staff that's always got the wrong answers to your questions). Also: DO NOT use the RI (ring indicator) as an input to the computer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do I check things? As a first step, I would get a package such as PD203 and use it to decode a few pages. If you can get that working you know that that your interface circuit is functioning correctly. If you are in a reasonably sized town you might be part of the ardis network. The ardis network is a nationwide commercial mobile data terminal network where one can send/receive E-mail messages from one's portable computer. It has been exclusively assigned the frequency of 855.8375 MHz. Therefore, if you can hear digital bursts on this frequency you are basically guarranteed that these are MDC4800 type messages. You should be able to get stuff popping up on your screen although a lot of the messages will not be plain english. If your interface works but you can't seem to get any messages on the screen for a channel you know is a Motorola MDT system then it might be possible that your scanner/interface is putting out data with the polarity reversed. To check for this run the program with a command line arguement. When it runs you should an initial "Polarity reversed" message and hopefully then things will work out for you. Other than that: if this program doesn't work pester someone else who has got it working. Don't bother pestering the author(s) of this posting; the shit(s) aka "she/he/it (s)" are afraid of a thousand lawyers from Motorola descending like fleas to infest their pubic hair and accordingly have decided to remain forever anonymous. No doubt someone on the usenet who sees this post will know what to do with this program and also hopefully rewrite into a more user friendly form. When you do please don't forget to release the source code. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Future projects/nightmares you might want to think about: Certain MDT systems embed formatting information in the text in the form of ESC plus [ plus a few more bytes. Someone might want to decode these on the fly and format the output so it looks exactly the same way as the user sees it. Make it so that this program works with com ports other than COM1. Make it user friendly? Enlarge the data buffer from the current 30k. Give the output data file an unique name each time the program is run instead of "data.dat". How about sorting through the past traffic so that you only see traffic to a specified user? The program does not cut data blocks off in the display but it might add an extra one or two (which will display as all zeroes). Someone might want to make all those zeroes be shown as blanks instead. Write some real instructions. Now the more ambitous stuff: Are you half-way competent with RF engineering? Then listen in to the tranmissions from the mobile units back to the base station. That way you get everyone's password and user IDs as they log on to the MDT system. By this point you will no doubt have been able to figure out all of the appropriate communications protocols so you should think about getting your own transmitter up and running along with the necessary program modifications so that you can transmit MDT messages. The required transmitter can be very simple - for example, those masocists who want to start from scratch might want to special order an appropriate crystal (pulling the frequency with the computer's tranmit signal), building a frequency multiplier chain, and adding a one watt RF amplifier to top it all off (see the appropriate ARRL publications for more information on radio techniques). Now you can log in and look at the criminal records and motor vehicle information on anybody you can think of. Find out what your neigbors are hiding. Find out who that asshole was that cut you off downtown. Find out where your former girl/boy friend is trying to hide from you. And on and on... Those with simpler tastes might want to simply transmit at the base station's frequency to any nearby MDT terminal - now you too can dispatch your local law enforcement agencies at the touch of your fingers!!! See your tax dollars at work tearing apart every seam of your neighbor's house. Or create strife and dissension in your local law enforcement agency as more and more officers come out of the closet using their MDTs trying to pick up fellow officers. There are municipalities that have put GPS receivers on all of their vehicles. Should it happen that the information is sent back over one of these networks you could have your computer give you a real-time map showing the position of every vehicle and how far away they are from you. Extend your knowledge to other data networks. Here you will want to look at the RAM mobile data network. It uses the MOBITEX protocol which is really easy to find information on. Since it is an 8 kilobaud GMSK signal there is a decent chance that you can use the interface described here. This transmission mode demmands much more from your equipment than MDT tranmissions. At the very least you must be much more careful to make sure you have adequate low frequency response. Despite this it is possible to receive and decode MOBITEX transmissions with a simple op-amp circuit! This just goes to show you what drivelling bullshit RAM's homepage is filled with - they explain in great detail how hackers will never be able to intercept user's radio tranmissions (incidentally explaining how to decode their tranmissions). The necessary program will be the proverbial exercise left for the reader. For better performance buy a dedicated MOBITEX modem chip and hook it up to your computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A few words about the program: Remember - you must have your decoder hooked up to COM1. The RTS line will be positive and the DTR line negative but if you built the decoder with a bridge rectifier you really don't have to worry about their polarity. Stop the program by punching any key; don't use control-c or control-break! If you must reverse polarity run the program with any command line arguement (example: type in "mdt x" at the command line if your program is mdt.exe). You should then see the "Polarity Reversed." message pop up and hopefully things will then work. As far as compiling this - save the latter portion of this posting (the program listing) and feed it to a C compiler. Pretty much any C compiler from Borland should work. If you (Heaven Forbid) use a Microsoft C compiler you might need to rename some calls such as outport. Follow any special instructions for programs using their own interrupt service routines. This program is not object oriented. It also does not want anything whatsoever to do with Windows. Please don't even think about running this program under Windows. Finally, here it is: Good Luck and may God be with ya ************************************************************************** Subject: More real spy stuff... Germany smuggled agent out of Russia Germany's Federal Intelligence Agency smuggled one of its Russian agents to safety while Russian President Boris Yeltsin and German Chancellor Helmut Kohl were meeting in Moscow last Nov., the weekly news magazine Focus said Monday. The BND had received a tip that a long-serving Russian agent was threatened and launched a cloak and dagger operation Nov. 29 to pull the agent out of Russia. The agent, a 32-year-old Army captain from the Russian town Samara with the code name "Coastal Fog," had given BND Russian military communications secrets for years. The rescue operation took place as Kohl and Yeltsin sat down for talks. Russian spies still fighting the Cold War in Britain Security sources say Moscow is as eager as ever to uncover defence secrets But now it is acting more for economic than militaristic reasons. Security sources put Russian military espionage in Britain at the same level as it was in the 1980s. In a radio broadcast in December, President Yeltsin, speaking about Russia's intelligence aims, said: "Notwithstanding positive changes after the end of the Cold War, tough competition is still underway in the world. Competition for new technology and geo-political influence is increasing." Space Imagery Overhaul Aims at Better Data and Easier Access The shuttle flight is part of a massive modernization of the multibillion-dollar U.S. intelligence collection program. The goal is to compile a comprehensive view of the world from overhead -- using the shuttle, satellites, spy planes and missiles -- and to consolidate the data in a single computerized system accessible to civilian and military officials across the government. A CIA Target at Home in America By DANIEL C. TSANG Los Angeles Times January 18, 1998 Because of me, the Central Intelligence Agency has had to concede it does spy on Americans. Just last month, the agency had to remove a denial posted on its Web site that it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me throughout the 1980s and '90s--despite a law against political spying on Americans. Just before Christmas, the CIA revised its Web site. The new version says the CIA can keep files on Americans if they are suspected of espionage or international terrorism. But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as much by settling my lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising to expunge my file and never spy on my political activities in the future. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 28 10:32:24 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:32:24 +0800 Subject: FWD --Progressive Review On-Line Report #70 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281822.TAA14817@basement.replay.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:43:02 -0500 From: The Progressive Review <72067.1525 at compuserve.com> Subject: Progressive Review On-Line Report #70 PROGRESSIVE REVIEW ON-LINE REPORT #70 January 26, 1998 WASHINGTON'S MOST UNOFFICIAL SOURCE A service of the Progressive Review: 1739 Conn. Ave. NW Washington DC 20009 202-232-5544 Fax: 202-234-6222 E-mail: ssmith at igc.org Editor: Sam Smith. The Progressive Review On-Line and our archives are found on the Web at: http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/ For a free trial subscription to our hard copy edition and e-mail updates send us your postal address with zip code(Sorry, foreign addresses will receive e-mail edition only). To unsubscribe, send message with the word 'unsubscribe.' Copyright 1998, The Progressive Review. Matter not independently copyrighted may be reprinted provided you pay TPR your normal reprint fees, if any, and give proper credit. To discuss an appearance by Sam Smith before your group or on your campus, contact The Progressive Review at 202-232-5544 or write ssmith at igc.org AND NOW THE NEWS . . . ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT: THE MEDIA AND THE CLINTON SCANDALS Because it controls its own medium and can revise history at will, one accessory after the fact in the Clinton scandals is almost certain to remain unscathed: the media. From the beginning, journalists created a fantasy portrait of Bill Clinton as a brilliant visionary, managerial superman, and charismatic leader. During the New Hampshire primary in 1992, the New Republic's Hendrik Hertzberg surveyed several dozen journalists and found that all of them, had they been New Hampshire voters, would have chosen Clinton. He suggested that, "the real reason members of the press like Clinton is simple, and surprisingly uncynical: they think he would make a very good, perhaps a great, president. Several told me they were convinced that Clinton is the most talented presidential candidate they have ever encountered, JFK included." Not only was there no substantive evidence for such a conclusion, there was plenty to suggest that Clinton was instead a politician of no fixed philosophical or moral address, a man who began with compromise and retreated from there, and a rampantly mundane governor. More importantly, he was known to be less than honest, a sexual predator, and hung out with some of the sleaziest types in his state. In Shadows of Hope (Indiana University Press, 1994), I wrote: "At the beginning of the 1992 campaign, few of us knew -- let alone remembered -- anything about Bill Clinton. If we were not from Arkansas, we had nothing for which to thank him. And our whirlwind relationship, our arranged marriage, was under the constant control of the great American matchmaker: the media. Clinton's past was not only unimportant to him, but to us as well. "In an earlier time, Clinton's non-history would have been an enormous disqualification. Now it wasn't because Clinton had one huge edge over his opponents: he looked and acted well on TV. Tom Harkin moved and spoke as mechanically as the Energizer bunny; Kerry's personality and platform remained a cipher; Tsongas talked funny; Brown was didactic; but Clinton was at home. "Against this advantage, facts faltered. The facts said that Clinton had been an unexceptional governor. He could claim better prenatal care programs and a decline in infant mortality, but at the same time the Center for the Study of Social Policy would rate the state only 41st on children's issues in general. Arkansas also ranked -- according to the Southern Regional Council -- in the bottom ten percent of all states in average weekly wages; health insurance coverage, state and local school revenue; unemployment; blacks and women in traditional white male jobs; environmental policy and overall conditions for workers. "An examination of his record raised warning flags, not the least of which were rocky relationships with labor and environmentalists. At the beginning of the campaign Clinton came under attack by his state's AFL-CIO president who (before the national union ordered him to shut up) sent around a highly critical report on Clinton's record. Labor, said Bill Becker, should expect Clinton's help only 25-30% of the time. And the League of Conservation Voters ranked Clinton last among the Democratic candidates on conservation issues. "Greater attention to Clinton's record also might have brought to more prominent notice the major tax increases during his tenure. Or the comment by the union official who said that Clinton would slap you on the back and piss down your leg. Or the tendency to waffle on issues. . . ." There were still more serious questions, well summarized by Ambrose Evans- Pritchard of London's Telegraph: "The Clintons are attractive on the surface. As Yale Law School graduates they have mastered the language and style of the mandarin class. It is only when you walk through the mirrors into the Arkansas underworld whence they came that you begin to realize that something is wrong. You learn that Bill Clinton grew up in the Dixie Mafia stronghold of Hot Springs, and that his brother was a drug dealer with ties to the Medilin Cartel. You learn that a cocaine distributor named Dan Lasater was an intimate friend, and that Lasater's top aide would later be given a post in charge of administration (and drug testing) at the White House. You learn that Arkansas was a mini- Colombia within the United States, infested by narco-corruption." For such reasons, by the spring of 1992 I had become convinced that the media portrayal of the Clintons was a fraud. Based on published material available to any reporter in the country, I wrote a "Who's Who of Arkansas" listing questionable individuals and institutions in the state and illustrating their links. Included were Dan Lasater, Roger Clinton, Tyson's Foods, Webb Hubbell, Buddy Young, the Arkansas Development Finance Authority, the Worthen Bank, the Rose law firm, Stephens Inc, Larry Nichols, Terry Reed, Jim & Susan McDougal, Gennifer Flowers, Mena, Ark., and even Mochtar Riady. The names would become familiar. The reporters who actual uncovered the Clinton scandals included Alexander Cockburn, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Christopher Ruddy, Jerry Seper, J. D. Cash, Hugh Sprunt, Michael Isakoff, Roger Morris, and Sally Denton. For their troubles they were ridiculed, ignored, considered persona non grata and called "wackos," "paranoids," and "conspiracy theorists." In at least two cases -- a Isakoff''s piece on Paula Jones and a Roger Morris/Sally Denton expose of Mena -- the Washington Post killed major stories just as they were about to go into print, apparently on orders of top management. It has been a shameful period in American journalism. Never have so many journalists looked so determinedly away from the facts in order to maintain a myth. And to this hour they continue. What follows is a listing of Clinton-related stories that should have been investigated further or gotten far more play than they did. It is a reminder that Bill Clinton has not been the only problem we have had in Washington. CLINTON UNCOVERED; THE ORPHANED STORIES OF WHITEWATER STORIES KNOWN BEFORE THE 1992 CONVENTION -- Bill Clinton's affair with Gennifer Flowers and his proposed cover-up of same. Papers such as the Washington Post refused to let their readers know what was in the Flowers' tapes. For example, on the tape, Clinton says, "If they ever hit you with it, just say no and go on. There's nothing they can do. I expected them to look into it and come interview you, but if everybody is on record denying it, no problem." Clinton also called Dukakis a "little Greek motherfucker," said that Cuomo acted as though he were part of the Mafia, and that Ted Kennedy couldn't get "a whore across a bridge." There are constituencies that might have appreciated knowing this before they went to the polls. -- A black prostitute in Arkansas claims that Clinton had fathered her child -- Another woman reports being approached by a Clinton aide at a hotel pool, who then arranges a sexual encounter with the governor. -- A former Miss Arkansas appears on the Sally Jesse Rafael Show in July 1992 to say that she has had an affair with Clinton. Sally Perdue later told the London Telegraph that Clinton often dropped over. After the TV appearance she said she was visited by a man who called himself a "Democratic Party operative" who warned her not to reveal specifics of the affair: "He said there were people in high places who were anxious about me and they wanted me to know that keeping my mouth shut would be worthwhile. . . If I was a good little girl, and didn't kill the messenger; I'd be set for life: a federal job, nothing fancy but a regular paycheck. . . I'd never have to worry again. But if I didn't take the offer, then they knew that I went jogging by myself and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to my 'pretty little legs.' " Perdue said she found a shotgun cartridge on the driver's seat of her Jeep and later had her back window shattered. -- Alexander Cockburn reports that Larry Nichols, the state employee who first brought the Flowers-Clinton and other liaisons to light, had recanted but only after a physical threat. -- There is substantial evidence of illegal Contra and drug operations at Mena. Not only did most of the media fail to report the story, but Time, in a piece called Anatomy of Smear, attempted to discredit those who had made charges about Mena. -- There are reports of questionable financial operations of the Arkansas Development Finance Authority, set up by Clinton and first headed by Dan Lasater, who was later convicted of cocaine distribution and who helped Roger Clinton pay his debt to drug dealers. -- On April 14, 1992, the Washington Times reports that "A federal-state drug task force secretly recorded in June 1984 Gov. Bill Clinton's brother, Roger, a heavy cocaine user at the time, boasting that he often took women to the governor's mansion for sex." -- Basic questions arise about Hillary Clinton's role as a lawyer representing Madison Guaranty. These questions should have at least stalled her canonization by the media, if not encouraging some actual investigative reporting. -- Serious questions arise about how Clinton, while running for state attorney general, came to be a part owner in Whitewater. Whitewater is basically a resort land scam. More than half the purchasers would lose their land thanks to the sleazy form of financing used. -- Connections between Jackson Stephens and the founder of BCCI are revealed. Stephen's bank provides a multimillion dollar line of credit that allows Clinton to stay in the primaries. According to a March 23 Alexander Cockburn story, "It was Jackson Stephens who brokered the arrival of [BCCI] into this country in 1977. He steered the bank's founder, Hassan Abedi, toward Jimmy Carter's budget director, Bert Lance. . . .Stephens then helped clear the ground, according to SEC documents, for Abedi's secret takeover of First American Bankshares." SUBSEQUENT SEX STORIES -- Important confirmation of the Gennifer Flowers story appears in an Art Harris Penthouse article in November 1992 that is widely ignored. Harris' witnesses included Flowers' mother, ex-roommate and a former boyfriend. -- Reports from four Arkansas state troopers of Clinton's sexual activities, both before and after election, are discounted, ridiculed or ignored. These include one trooper's report that he had brought a woman to the governor's mansion during pre-dawn hours on three occasions after the election. Also reported by troopers: one affair that lasted as late as January 1993. The New York Times runs a piece trying to discredit the troopers. -- State phone call records and other bills, the LA Times reports, include 59 Clinton calls to one woman's home and office between 1989 and 1991. -- A state trooper reports driving Clinton to Gennifer Flowers' apartment. -- Paula Jones accuses Bill Clinton of sexually harassing her while he was governor. This story will be long ignored, ridiculed or underplayed. -- Timothy Maier of Insight Magazine follows up his stunning story of Clinton administration bugging of over 300 locations during the 1993 Seattle Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Conference with word that FBI videotapes of diplomatic suites "show underage boys engaging in sexcapades with men in several rooms over a period of days." The operation involved the FBI, CIA, NSA and Office of Naval Intelligence. Bugged were hotel rooms, telephones, conference centers, cars, and even a charter boat. Some of the information obtained was apparently passed on to individuals with financial interests in Asia. Also involved: alleged kickbacks on purchases of surveillance equipment by the spooks. -- On July 3, 1997, Gennifer Flowers, interviewed by Penny Crone and Curtis Sliwa on New York's WABC, claims that she had received threats -- including death threats -- around the time of her tape recorded conversations with Bill Clinton and that this was why she had made the recordings. Asked whether she thought Clinton was behind the threats, Flowers replied, "What I thought, after my home was ransacked, was that he was behind that -- simply because I had called to tell him about it and it was his reaction it. I mean, he acted, he was aloof. Her didn't act that concerned. He said, 'Well, why do you think they came in there?' And I said, 'Well, why the hell do you think?' He said, 'Well, do you think they were looking for something on us?' I said, 'Well, yes.'" THE VINCE FOSTER CASE -- The mainstream media's conviction that any concerns about Vince Foster's death are paranoid delusions is supported by virtually no independent investigations. The media accepts without question shoddy, incomplete and misleading reports by two special prosecutors and resorts to personal attacks on critics. The issues raised by investigator such as Chris Ruddy, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard and Hugh Sprunt have not yet been answered. -- Even Kenneth Starr is interested in the apparent cover-up and obstruction of justice by high levels of White House that took place after Foster's death. The media is bored by the story. -- Patrick Knowlton files a lawsuit against the federal government alleging extraordinary harassment aimed at dissuading him from sticking to his account of what he saw in Ft. Marcy Park not long before the Foster body was found. This harassment involved intensive and overt surveillance by at least 25 men, some which was witnessed by his girlfriend and by investigative reporter Christopher Ruddy. Knowlton's car was also smashed by a person with a tire iron in front of witnesses. Investigative reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard tracked down the car-smasher as well as a couple of members of the surveillance team and believes them to be stringers working for federal government intelligence and law enforcement. -- Over the strenuous opposition of Kenneth Starr, the Whitewater supervising judges unanimously allow a 20-page exception by Patrick Knowlton to be appended to the prosecutor's report on Vince Foster. Seven times Starr tries to get the statement of Knowlton rejected but the judges let it stand -- despite the fact that it directly contradicts Starr and his staff on key points. Most of the media fail to even report the existence of this document. THE JERRY PARKS CASE -- Jerry Parks had been head of security for the Clinton Little Rock HQ. He was also known to be building a dossier on Clinton, perhaps for Hillary. On hearing the news of Foster's death, he told his wife, "I'm a dead man." Not long after he was, rubbed out on a Little Rock street in a mob-style hit. According to Parks' family his files on Clinton were removed by federal agents. The murder has never been solved. THE DIXIE MAFIA AND DRUGS -- The Oct. 18 1994, Wall Street Journal runs a summary of the suppressed investigation into drug running through the Mena, AK, airport. The WSJ story recounts the ten year struggle of IRS investigator William Duncan to expose the Mena operation. Despite nine separate federal and state probes, nothing happened. Says Duncan -- who eventually quit in disgust: "The Mena investigations were never supposed to see the light of day." They were "interfered with and covered up, and the justice system was perverted." -- Writing in the Oct. 9, 1994 London Telegraph, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard writes that Arkansas was a "major point for the transshipment of drugs" during the 1980s and "perilously close to becoming a 'narco-republic' -- a sort of mini-Columbia within the borders of the United States." Evans- Pritchard also alleges that by "1986 there was an epidemic of cocaine, contaminating the political establishment from top to bottom," with parties "at which cocaine would be served like hors d'oeuvres and sex was rampant." He adds that Clinton attended some of these events. -- In early 1995, the Washington Post suppresses Roger Morris and Sally Denton's story on The Crimes of Mena, apparently a decision of top management. -- Former FBI director William Sessions says the Foster probe was "compromised" from the beginning. Sessions had been fired by Bill Clinton the day before Foster's death. -- Janet Reno refuses to let independent prosecutor Dan Smaltz expand his probe into areas that might lead to exposing major drug dealing in Arkansas. . -- The Tampa Tribune tells its readers about an ex-Mena CIA operative who backs up stories concerning the Arkansas drug/Contra trade in the 1980s. The ex-agent reports flying into Mena and Little Rock in 1983 and 1984 with larger coolers marked "medical supplies." Who was on hand to pick up these "medical supplies?" According to the ex-agent, none other than several people quite close to then Governor Bill Clinton. The agent, now in jail, claims he bailed out of black ops after ex-CIA chief William Colby asked him to "neutralize" an American citizen. The Tribune's reporters have seen documents that support the agents' claims. -- While the press has no problem reporting such stories about Barry (or Dan Quayle for that matter), it has not told the public about the existence of a police tape of Roger Clinton describing his own cocaine trafficking and saying of his brother, "Got to get some for my brother; he's got a nose like a vacuum cleaner." -- A former informant for a drug task force in Arkansas tells Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the London Telegraph that she supplied Bill with cocaine during his first terms as governor. On one occasion, according to the woman, "He was so messed up that night, he slid down the wall into a garbage can." OTHER MATTERS -- In July 1995, The Progressive Review writes: " Early in the Clinton administration your editor had dinner with, among others, a high White House official -- a lawyer. The conversation turned to marijuana. The lawyer said that numerous staffers had asked how they should respond to FBI queries on the matter. The official's reply was that they should remember that they would only be in the White House for a short while but the FBI files would be there forever. And what if friends or relatives actually saw them using pot? The White House lawyer's response: "If you can't look an FBI agent straight in the eye and tell him they were wrong, you don't belong here." -- Hillary Clinton makes a killing on a commodities futures deal that defies the law of averages. -- Louis Freeh, testifying before a House committee is asked whether he has ever before run into a case (as with the Clinton scandals) in which 65 persons refused to testify or had left the country. Freeh said actually he had: " I spent about 16 years doing organized crime cases in New York City and many people were frequently unavailable." -- In just two matters before a House investigating committee (the FBI files and the travel office scandal) high White House officials, including Mrs. Clinton, said "I don't recall," "I don't remember" or something similar over 3,700 times. -- There is growing evidence that the federal government had advance warning of the OKC blast. -- The White House is found to have improper possession of about 900 personal FBI files. Knight-Ridder reports, "College-age interns and other volunteers had free access to hundreds of FBI investigative files kept in the White House security office during the first months of the Clinton administration. Nancy Gemmel, a retired security office deputy, said that during the first few months of the Clinton Administration 'extremely young' interns, 18 to 20 years of age, helped manage the heavy flow of paperwork. Other older volunteers also pitched in. All of them had access to a vault in the office that was used to store the background files. None of the volunteers, according to Gemmel, had been cleared by the FBI to hand such documents." -- LD Brown, a former Arkansas state trooper who worked on Clinton's security details, claims he was approached on a bus in England and offered $100,000 and a job to change his Whitewater testimony. A second offer was allegedly made in Little Rock. THREATS, VIOLENCE & DEATH -- The number of people who have been close to, or worked for, Bill Clinton and who have committed suicide or otherwise experienced sudden death is at the very least a statistical anomaly. Seventeen men who have served Clinton as aides or bodyguards have died violently, four of them during the Waco massacre and the rest in plane crashes. Five other plane crashes have killed persons in the Clinton orbit. There have been six deaths of unknown causes, six apparent suicides, 3 murders, 2 fatal skiing accidents, and one fatal car accident. There have also been a number of beatings, including of a man who had videotaped Clinton entering Gennifer Flowers's apartment. His tapes were seized. -- Aside from the Vince Foster and Jerry Parks deaths, the following especially deserve more attention than they have received to date: >>>Ron Brown's death. It is clear that proper procedure was not observed by the military medical examiners. With the discovery of a wound suggestive of a gun shot, calling for an independent autopsy would be a minimal and reasonable editorial position. Looking into other matters concerning the plane crash (including the disappearance of a recording device and the suicide of an air controller) would also make sense. >>>Kathy Ferguson and Bill Shelton. Kathy Ferguson was the ex-wife of Danny Ferguson, the state trooper who arranged Paula Jones' visit to Bill Clinton's suite. She allegedly committed suicide three months after the Jones case was publicized. She was considered a likely witness when it came to trial. A suicide note was found in her home but so were several packed suitcases next to the body. Her fiance, state trooper Bill Shelton, allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at the gravesite of Kathy Ferguson. -- There are a steady stream of threats during the Clinton years, such as those allegedly relayed to two state troopers by a Democratic official in 1993 that they would be "destroyed" if they spoke to the press, and the phone call from Clinton's ex-security chief Buddy Young warning them not to reveal anything. -- Thomas M. DeFrank and Thomas Galvin of the New York Daily News describe in the Weekly Standard strong-arm tactics used by the Clintonistas against their critics. They write: "The president's impressive people skills and abundant personal charm mask a streak of political cold-bloodedness and score-settling worthy of a Mario Puzo novel. . . If you pose a threat to this president, you're not merely a political adversary -- you're clearly a bimbo, homosexual, homophobe, alcoholic, moron, sexual harasser, crook, dupe, fellow travelers, embezzler, pathological liar, or even murderer. At least that's what every reporter, news editor, bureau chief, or network executive interested in what you have to say will be told."Examples abound. Republican congressional investigators Jim Leach and William Clinger both found themselves being trailed by private detectives. False stories are spread such as the ones claiming that travel office head Billy Dale had been fired after an independent audit found financial irregularities. Editors and journalists are called and warned off sources. Talk show guests are yanked. Paula Jones, Sally Perdue, and other women involved with Clinton get viciously trashed, as have been various Arkansas state troopers. Conclude DeFrank and Galvin: "Enemies have been intimidated, inconvenient truths suppressed, and reputations shattered -- all at negligible cost of the president." And that's just part of the story. From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 28 10:33:00 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:33:00 +0800 Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication In-Reply-To: <199801280442.WAA04344@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: Steve asked in another message about where one learns about some of this stuff. As always, "Scientific American" is a good place to look for articles. They've had many articles on Bell's Theorem, nonlocality, the EPR paradox/nonparadox, the Aharanov-Bohm results, and quantum teleportation. A SciAm article will explain, with pictures, in ways we can't here. (Plus the articles are carefully written, by experts--we waste too much time here getting lost in misunderstandings about the meanings of terms of art.) "Science News" is sometimes good, too. And "New Scientist" and "Nature." Any library should have plenty of articles. There are also dozens of popular books on these subjects, ranging from "In Search of Schrodinger's Cat" to "Where Does the Weirdness Go?" And the Web of course has vast resources. Just taking a glance, I see 2000 hits on "quantum teleportation" with HotBot. And 200 hits on "faster than light communication," for example. Other, more refined searches are trivial to do. Some of these articles are reviews, some are primers, some are pointers to more info. Anyway, back to "quantum weirdness," which, so far, has not looked very weird. (To me, at least. But, like most physicists, it seemed weird to me at first but then became "just the way things are" after a few months.) At 9:20 PM -0800 1/27/98, Steve Schear wrote: >I don't understand why a command/synch channel is required. Why aren't the >coding techniques commonly used in telecom and disk data encoding adequate >to both synchonize and convey data? Imagine a pair of photons sent in opposite directions. With different polarizations, but "tangled." Observer A measures a polarization of "1." He then knows that Observer B will measure "0." All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built into the Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And this is not any kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing the state far away." No more so than sending two envelopes out, one with a "1" inside and the other with a "0" inside changes things instantaneously.....) No signal sending is possible because neither observer can "change" the polarization of a photon. They can certainly pick a sequence of photons to measure, and thus get various polarization values. But it can't send a "message" to the other site because the series of photons picked forms the key, and that key must itself be sent. Similarities to one time pads, obviously. More info in the sources named. Avoid the pop science treatments by Nick Herbert, unless other, more mainstream sources are also consulted at the same time. And definitely avoid the "psi" nonsense of Jack Sarfatti. Gribbin's books are pretty good. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 10:55:06 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:55:06 +0800 Subject: Nanotechnology info on the Web (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281851.MAA07853@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From owner-traveller at Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Wed Jan 28 12:34:55 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-traveller at lists.MPGN.COM using -f From: Dedly Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:11:00 EST To: traveller at mpgn.com Subject: Nanotechnology info on the Web Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-traveller at Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Reply-To: traveller at mpgn.com If any of you are interested in what's going on in nanotechnology these days...... www.nanothinc.com They're trying to be an all-encompassing resource on nanotechnology. Although this industry is in its infancy, there's some really interesting things going on. Regarding the site itself: It helps to have a high speed modem as there are alot of graphics. They also play with a bit of shockwave so it would help to have that plug-in as well. \_/ DED From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 10:57:01 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:57:01 +0800 Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281850.MAA07813@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:29:16 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication > Steve asked in another message about where one learns about some of this > stuff. As always, "Scientific American" is a good place to look for > articles. They've had many articles on Bell's Theorem, nonlocality, the EPR > paradox/nonparadox, the Aharanov-Bohm results, and quantum teleportation. A > SciAm article will explain, with pictures, in ways we can't here. (Plus the > articles are carefully written, by experts--we waste too much time here > getting lost in misunderstandings about the meanings of terms of art.) > "Science News" is sometimes good, too. And "New Scientist" and "Nature." > Any library should have plenty of articles. I agree with the reference to Sci-Am, with one priviso. A few years ago they put a pair of books on just these topics. They are a collection of articles published over the years and instead of digging through a variety of magazines and such these two will save a lot of time. Particles and Forces: The heart of the matter ISBN 0-7167-2070-1 $11.95 Particle Physics in the Cosmos ISBN 0-7167-1919-3 $9.95 And a much more technical book that I like a lot is: Understanding Quantum Physics: A user's manual M.A. Morrison ISBN 0-13-747908-5 ~$50 Enjoy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From schear at lvdi.net Wed Jan 28 11:11:33 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:11:33 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801281428.IAA06743@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 8:28 AM -0600 1/28/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:44:50 -0800 >> From: Steve Schear >> Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 >> (fwd) > >> I guess I'm over my head in such matters. From my, admitedly, shallow >> understanding of wave function collapse, etc., I was under the apparent >> misimpression that once collapsed (e.g., by Alice entangling a 'modulation' >> photon M (of a known polarization) with one member (photon A) of an >> entangled pair, one of which was sent to Alice and the other (photon B) >> which was sent to Bob, photon B's polarization state was determined and >> could not subsequently be altered by Bob's measurement with his receiver. >> Could you recommend a good article which explain this paradox to a >> non-quantum mechanic? > >The state is determined *at the time of collapse*. Once the collapse occurs >the synchronization is no longer present and subsequent events can indeed >alter the polarization of one particle without altering the other. Simply >bouncing that photon via refraction off a surface can alter the >polarization. If that is the case, I still don't understand why and out-of-band signal is required. If the sender collapses the wave function shortly before the signal reaches the intended receiver its unlikely to have changed polarization again. --Steve From schear at lvdi.net Wed Jan 28 11:18:31 1998 From: schear at lvdi.net (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:18:31 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801280418.WAA04044@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: >>> Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal >>> modulation using polarization. > >Speaking of SETI, their current intent is to do a distributed >computation spread across thousands of computers, similar to some of the >keycracking efforts. Details at http://www.bigscience.com ; >the Recent News section says they're currently trying to figure >out about funding. Meanwhile, there's www.mersenne.org for >factoring big prime numbers. One of the problems I have with SETI is that it assumes that a distant civilization is sending out a beacon for others to home in on, and that this beacon is a narrowband signal. What if most such civilizations aren't looking for anyone and merely going about their own affairs, including communications for their own needs? Because of path losses it takes an incredibly strong narrowband signal to traverse even relatively small cosmological distances and have any hope of detection with our technology. For example, Earth's strongest TV signals could be detected by our present technology out to about 50 light years, but no image reconstruction would be possible (insufficient S/N). The highest power transmitter-directional antenna, at Aricebo, can be heard to about 300 light years, but its only transmitted a SETI beacon once and only for a few minutes. An excellent way to mitigate path loss is trading bandwidth for data rate. GPS garners an incredible 63 dB of process gain (or about a 2,000,0000 fold improvement) in this manner. If I was trying to send a electromagnetic signal vast distances I'd use some form of spread spectrum. Individually, narrowband receivers are most insensitive to broadband 'noise' sources. However, I wonder if it might be possible to configure the SETI at home software to coordinate the narrowband channels signal analysis so as to have a better chance of detecting broadband, pseudo-noise, signaling. --Steve From joswald at rpkusa.com Wed Jan 28 11:21:04 1998 From: joswald at rpkusa.com (Jack Oswald) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:21:04 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <01BD2BDC.19144440@joswald@rpkusa.com> It seems that there is some confusion WRT to the origin of this product. The encryption technology was developed in New Zealand. The application itself was developed on the Isle of Man (British Isles). As a result, the US gov't has had nothing to do with the product and therefore none of the "concerns" represented in the previous message have any merit. What was meant by use of "honey" is that if you pick a fight with a government official, they will be happy to fight back. If you complement them on their farsighted visionary non-meddling approach you get a very different response. Our experience has been that we get a reasonable response from the NZ government that does not restrict the security that our products offer nor in the way that we choose to do business. Jack -----Original Message----- From: John Young [SMTP:jya at pipeline.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 4:02 PM To: cypherpunks at toad.com Cc: Jack Oswald Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 On "using honey not vinegar" rationale of RPK InvisiMail for obtaining crypto export licenses: Applied Cryptography, Bruce Schneier, 2nd Edition, pp. 215-16 Algorithms for Export Algorithms for export out of the United States must be approved by the U.S. government (actually, by the NSA--see Section 25.1) It is widely believed that these export-approved algorithms can be broken by the NSA. Although no one has admitted this on the record, these are some of the things the NSA is rumored to privately suggest to companies wishing to export their cryptographic products: - Leak a key bit once in a while, embedded in the ciphertext. - "Dumb down" the effective key to something in the 30-bit range. For example, while the algorithm might accept a 100-bit key, most of those keys might be equivalent. - Use a fixed IV, or encrypt a fixed header at the beginning of each encrypted message. This facilitates a known-plaintext attack. - Generate a few random bytes, encrypt them with the key, and then put both the plaintext and the ciphertext of those random bytes at the beginning of the encrypted message. This also facilitates a known-plaintext attack. NSA gets a copy of the source code, but the algorithm's details remain secret from everyone else. Certainly no one advertises any of these deliberate weaknesses, but beware if you buy a U.S. encryption product that has been approved for export. ----- Bruce added the last "beware" phrase to the 2nd edition. From honig at otc.net Wed Jan 28 11:21:33 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:21:33 +0800 Subject: Spyking snips: Police MDT's + cia/russian spying In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128110542.007f5a70@206.40.207.40> At 01:03 PM 1/28/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >2)From: "Brandon Robinson" >Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's > >>14)From: "self destruct" < >>Subject: Monitoring MDT's >>hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's >>(mobile display terminals) >>i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to >>p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you > >Since no one else seemed to respond to this, I guess I will...first off >M.D.T. stands for (Mobile Data Terminals), I got this posting off some >group I can't really remeber where from, but it is informative, and was >the >subject of a Feb, '97 "911Dispatcher Magazine" story. It should answer all >of your questions, I also have a list of some places where you can buy the >unit pre-made, or a kit to make your own. I have left the Source code out >on purpose as it is rather lengthy, if you want it I can send it to you. > >-BBR >----------------------- Begin quoted article ---------------------- > >>From lord at heaven.com Mon Dec 23 23:11:43 EST 1996 >Article: 44420 of alt.radio.scanner >Subject: MDT stuff > >Greetings one and all, > >Have you ever lusted to decode Mobile Data Terminal (MDT) >tranmissions? Have you ever wanted to see the same NCIC and motor >vehicle information that law enforcement officers see? Have you ever >wanted to see what officers send to each other over "private" channels? >And all this with an interface you can build with only a few dollars >worth of parts from your local radio shack? > >If so this posting might be your rendevous with destiny. The tail >end of this posting includes the source code of a program that decodes >and displays MDT messages. It stores roughly 30k of messages in a buffer >and then writes the whole buffer to a file called "data.dat" before >terminating. The program may be interrupted at any time by pressing any >key (don't use control-c) at which point it writes the partially filled >buffer to "data.dat". This program only works for systems built by >Motorola using the MDC4800 tranmission protocol. This accounts for a >large fraction of public service MDT systems as well other private >systems. > >The existence of this program is ample evidence that Motorola has >misrepresented its MDT systems when it marketed them as a secure means >of communcications. The interested reader will soon discover that these >systems do not use any form of encryption. Security concerns instead >have been dealt with by using a code. "And what might this code be >called?" asks the reader. The code turns out to be plain ASCII. What >follows is a brief description of how the program and the MDC4800 >protocol work. If you don't understand something go to your local >library and check out a telecommunications theory book. > >1. The raw transmission rate is 4800 baud. The program's interrupt >service routine simply keeps track of the time between transitions. If >you're receiving a perfect signal this will be some multiple of 1/4800 >seconds which would then give you how many bits were high or low. Since >this is not the best of all possible worlds the program instead does the >following: transitions are used to synchronize a bit clock. One only >samples whenever this clock is in the middle of the bit to produce the >raw data stream. This greatly reduces jitter effects. > >2. Whenever a tranmitter keys up the MDC4800 protocol calls for bit >synchronization (a sequence of 1010101010101010....). In the program >this will result in receive bit clock synchronization. There is no need >to specifically look for the bit sync. > >3. Look for frame synchronization in raw bit stream so that data >frames can be broken apart. Frame synchronization consists of a 40 bit >sequence : 0000011100001001001010100100010001101111. If this sequence is >detected (or 35 out of 40 bits match up in the program) the system is >idling and the next 112 bit data block is ignored by the program. If the >inverted frame sync is detected one immediately knows that 112 bit data >blocks will follow. > >4. Receive the 112 bit data block and undo the bit interleave. This >means that one must reorder the bits in the following sequence : {0,16, >32,48,64,80,96,1,17,33,49,65,81,97,2,18,34,...} if the orignal sequence >were received as {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...}. > >5. Check the convolutional error correcting code and count the >number of errors. The error correcting code is rate 1/2 which means we >will be left with 56 data bytes. The encoder is constructed so that the >output consists of the original data bits interspersed with error >correcting code. The generating polynomial used is : >1 + X^-1 + X^-5 + X^-6 >Whenever an error is detected a counter is incremented. An attempt is >made to correct some errors by finding the syndrome and looking for the >bogus bit. > >6. Keep receiving 112 bit data blocks until either a new frame sync >is found or two consecutive data blocks have an unacceptably large >number of errors. > >7. Each data block consists of six data bytes; the last 8 bits are >status bits that are simply ignored. The program shows the data in two >columns - hexadecimal and ASCII. This data is kept in a buffer and is >written to the file "data.dat" when the program terminates. > >8. What the program doesn't do: As a further check on the data >there can be CRC checks. This varies from protocol to protocol so this >program does not implement the CRC checks. Nonetheless, it is a >relatively trivial matter to find the generating polynomial. The >addresses, block counts, and message ID numbers are also quite easy to >deduce. > >As you can see, there is no encryption. The bit interleave and the error >correcting coding are there solely to insure the integrity of the ASCII >data. Since any moron could have figured this stuff out from scratch one >could argue that MDTs do not use "...modulation parameters intentionally >witheld from the public". Therefore the Electronic Communications >Privacy Act may not prohibit receiving MDT tranmissions. However, >consult your attorney to make sure. > >The total disregard for security will no doubt annoy countless >Motorola customers who were assured that their MDT systems were secure. >Since Federal law states that NCIC information must be encrypted your >local law enforcement agency might be forced to spend millions of >dollars to upgrade to a secure MDT system - much to the delight of >Motorola and its stockholders. Cynics might conclude that the release of >a program like this is timed to coincide with the market saturation of >existing MDT systems. > >Also, this program is completely free and it had better stay that >way. What's to prevent you from adapting this into a kit and selling it >>from classified ads in the back of Nuts and Volts? Nothing. But take a >look at Motorola's patents sometime. You'll notice that this program >does things that are covered by a shitload of patents. So any attempt to >take financial advantage of this situtation will result in utter misery. > >Please keep the following in mind: this program only works with the >first serial port (COM1). If your mouse or modem is there too bad. If >you don't like this rewrite the program. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >What equipment do I need? > >RADIO SCANNER: > >A scanner that can receive 850-869 MHz. For those of you who don't >know, this is the band where most business and public service trunked >radio systems can be found along with the mobile data terminal >transmissions. Chances are excellent that if your local authorities have >a motorola trunked radio system and mobile data terminals that this is >the frequency band in use. Very rarely will one find mobile data >terminals in other frequency bands. > >Now for the fun part - your scanner should probably be modified to >allow you to tap off directly from the discriminator output. If you wait >until the signal has gone through the radio's internal audio filtering >the waveform will likely be too heavily distorted to be decoded. This is >exactly the same problem that our friends who like to decode pager >transmissions run into - some of them have claimed they can only decode >512 baud pager messages using the earphone output of their scanner. >These mobile data terminal messages are 4800 baud so I don't think you >have a snowball's chance in hell without using the discriminator output. >If you don't know where to begin modifying your scanner you might want >to ask those who monitor pagers how to get the discriminator output for >your particular radio. > >COMPUTER/SCANNER INTERFACE > >Those of you who have already built your interface for decoding >pager messages should be able to use that interface without any further >ado. For those starting from scratch - you might want to check out >packages intended for pager decoding such as PD203 and the interfaces >they describe. The following excerpt gives an example of a decoder that >should work just fine (lifted out of the PD203 POCSAG pager decoder >shareware documentation): > >> >> 0.1 uF |\ +12v >> ---||-----------------------|- \| >> AF IN | |741 \ >> ---- | | /--------------------- Data Out >> | \ ------|+ /| | CTS (pin 5/8) >> | / 100K | |/-12v | or DSR (pin 6/6) >> | \ | | >> GND / ----/\/\/\---- GND ------ GND (pin 7/5) >> | | 100K >> | \ N.B. Pin Numbers for com port are >> GND / given as x/y, where x is for a 25 >> \ 10K way, y for a 9 way. >> / >> | >> GND >> >> The above circuit is a Schmitt Trigger, having thresholds of about +/- >1v. >> If such a large threshold is not required, eg for a discriminator >output, >> then the level of positive feedback may be reduced by either reducing >the >> value of the 10K resistor or by increasing the value of the 100K >feedback >> resistor. >> >> The +/- 12v for the op-amp can be derived from unused signals on the COM >> port (gives more like +/- 10v but works fine !):- >> >> >> TxD (2/3) --------------|<-------------------------------------- -12v >> | | >> RTS (4/7) --------------|<-------- GND - - >> | | _ + 10uF >> --------->|------- - - | >> Diodes 1N4148 | - + 10uF GND >> | | >> DTR (20/4) ------------->|-------------------------------------- +12v >> > >If I were building this circuit I would strongly suggest tying the >non-inverting (+) input of the op-amp to ground since you are working >directly with the discriminator output and don't need a Schmitt trigger. >All these parts or equivalents are easily available (even at your local >Radio Shack which stocks the finest collection of components that have >failed the manufacturer's quality control checks and supported by a >sales staff that's always got the wrong answers to your questions). > >Also: DO NOT use the RI (ring indicator) as an input to the computer. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >How do I check things? > >As a first step, I would get a package such as PD203 and use it to >decode a few pages. If you can get that working you know that that your >interface circuit is functioning correctly. > >If you are in a reasonably sized town you might be part of the >ardis network. The ardis network is a nationwide commercial mobile data >terminal network where one can send/receive E-mail messages from one's >portable computer. It has been exclusively assigned the frequency of >855.8375 MHz. Therefore, if you can hear digital bursts on this >frequency you are basically guarranteed that these are MDC4800 type >messages. You should be able to get stuff popping up on your screen >although a lot of the messages will not be plain english. > >If your interface works but you can't seem to get any messages on >the screen for a channel you know is a Motorola MDT system then it might >be possible that your scanner/interface is putting out data with the >polarity reversed. To check for this run the program with a command line >arguement. When it runs you should an initial "Polarity reversed" >message and hopefully then things will work out for you. > >Other than that: if this program doesn't work pester someone else >who has got it working. Don't bother pestering the author(s) of this >posting; the shit(s) aka "she/he/it (s)" are afraid of a thousand >lawyers from Motorola descending like fleas to infest their pubic hair >and accordingly have decided to remain forever anonymous. No doubt >someone on the usenet who sees this post will know what to do with this >program and also hopefully rewrite into a more user friendly form. When >you do please don't forget to release the source code. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Future projects/nightmares you might want to think about: > >Certain MDT systems embed formatting information in the text in the >form of ESC plus [ plus a few more bytes. Someone might want to decode >these on the fly and format the output so it looks exactly the same way >as the user sees it. > >Make it so that this program works with com ports other than COM1. > >Make it user friendly? > >Enlarge the data buffer from the current 30k. > >Give the output data file an unique name each time the program is >run instead of "data.dat". > >How about sorting through the past traffic so that you only see >traffic to a specified user? > >The program does not cut data blocks off in the display but it >might add an extra one or two (which will display as all zeroes). >Someone might want to make all those zeroes be shown as blanks instead. > >Write some real instructions. > >Now the more ambitous stuff: > >Are you half-way competent with RF engineering? Then listen in to >the tranmissions from the mobile units back to the base station. That >way you get everyone's password and user IDs as they log on to the MDT >system. By this point you will no doubt have been able to figure out all >of the appropriate communications protocols so you should think about >getting your own transmitter up and running along with the necessary >program modifications so that you can transmit MDT messages. The >required transmitter can be very simple - for example, those masocists >who want to start from scratch might want to special order an >appropriate crystal (pulling the frequency with the computer's tranmit >signal), building a frequency multiplier chain, and adding a one watt RF >amplifier to top it all off (see the appropriate ARRL publications for >more information on radio techniques). Now you can log in and look at >the criminal records and motor vehicle information on anybody you can >think of. Find out what your neigbors are hiding. Find out who that >asshole was that cut you off downtown. Find out where your former >girl/boy friend is trying to hide from you. And on and on... >Those with simpler tastes might want to simply transmit at the base >station's frequency to any nearby MDT terminal - now you too can >dispatch your local law enforcement agencies at the touch of your >fingers!!! See your tax dollars at work tearing apart every seam of your >neighbor's house. Or create strife and dissension in your local law >enforcement agency as more and more officers come out of the closet >using their MDTs trying to pick up fellow officers. > >There are municipalities that have put GPS receivers on all of >their vehicles. Should it happen that the information is sent back over >one of these networks you could have your computer give you a real-time >map showing the position of every vehicle and how far away they are from >you. > >Extend your knowledge to other data networks. Here you will want to >look at the RAM mobile data network. It uses the MOBITEX protocol which >is really easy to find information on. Since it is an 8 kilobaud GMSK >signal there is a decent chance that you can use the interface described >here. This transmission mode demmands much more from your equipment than >MDT tranmissions. At the very least you must be much more careful to >make sure you have adequate low frequency response. Despite this it is >possible to receive and decode MOBITEX transmissions with a simple >op-amp circuit! This just goes to show you what drivelling bullshit >RAM's homepage is filled with - they explain in great detail how hackers >will never be able to intercept user's radio tranmissions (incidentally >explaining how to decode their tranmissions). The necessary program will >be the proverbial exercise left for the reader. For better performance >buy a dedicated MOBITEX modem chip and hook it up to your computer. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >A few words about the program: > >Remember - you must have your decoder hooked up to COM1. The RTS >line will be positive and the DTR line negative but if you built the >decoder with a bridge rectifier you really don't have to worry about >their polarity. Stop the program by punching any key; don't use >control-c or control-break! > >If you must reverse polarity run the program with any command line >arguement (example: type in "mdt x" at the command line if your program >is mdt.exe). You should then see the "Polarity Reversed." message pop up >and hopefully things will then work. > >As far as compiling this - save the latter portion of this posting >(the program listing) and feed it to a C compiler. Pretty much any C >compiler from Borland should work. If you (Heaven Forbid) use a >Microsoft C compiler you might need to rename some calls such as >outport. Follow any special instructions for programs using their own >interrupt service routines. This program is not object oriented. It also >does not want anything whatsoever to do with Windows. Please don't even >think about running this program under Windows. Finally, here it is: > >Good Luck and may God be with ya > >************************************************************************** > >Subject: More real spy stuff... > >Germany smuggled agent out of Russia > >Germany's Federal Intelligence Agency smuggled one of its Russian >agents to safety while Russian President Boris Yeltsin and German >Chancellor Helmut Kohl were meeting in Moscow last Nov., the weekly >news magazine Focus said Monday. The BND had received a tip that a >long-serving Russian agent was threatened and launched a cloak and >dagger operation Nov. 29 to pull the agent out of Russia. The agent, >a 32-year-old Army captain from the Russian town Samara with the code >name "Coastal Fog," had given BND Russian military communications >secrets for years. The rescue operation took place as Kohl and >Yeltsin sat down for talks. > >Russian spies still fighting the Cold War in Britain > >Security sources say Moscow is as eager as ever to uncover >defence secrets But now it is acting more for economic than >militaristic reasons. Security sources put Russian military >espionage in Britain at the same level as it was in the 1980s. >In a radio broadcast in December, President Yeltsin, >speaking about Russia's intelligence aims, said: >"Notwithstanding positive changes after the end of the >Cold War, tough competition is still underway in the >world. Competition for new technology and geo-political >influence is increasing." > >Space Imagery Overhaul Aims at Better Data and Easier Access > >The shuttle flight is part of a massive modernization of the >multibillion-dollar U.S. intelligence collection program. The goal >is to compile a comprehensive view of the world from >overhead -- using the shuttle, satellites, spy planes and missiles >-- and to consolidate the data in a single computerized system >accessible to civilian and military officials across the >government. > >A CIA Target at Home in America >By DANIEL C. TSANG >Los Angeles Times January 18, 1998 > >Because of me, the Central Intelligence Agency has had to concede it does >spy on Americans. Just last month, the agency had to remove a denial >posted >on its Web site that it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me >throughout the 1980s and '90s--despite a law against political spying on >Americans. >Just before Christmas, the CIA revised its Web site. The new version says >the CIA can keep files on Americans if they are suspected of espionage or >international terrorism. But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as >much by settling my lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising >to expunge my file and never spy on my political activities in the >future. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu ``I'm going to the White House to get my presidential kneepads.'' ML Quote of the day http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh0s.htm From honig at otc.net Wed Jan 28 11:22:00 1998 From: honig at otc.net (David Honig) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:22:00 +0800 Subject: Spyking snips: Police MDT's + cia/russian spying In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128111443.007f14b0@206.40.207.40> At 01:03 PM 1/28/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >2)From: "Brandon Robinson" >Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's > >>14)From: "self destruct" < >>Subject: Monitoring MDT's >>hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's >>(mobile display terminals) >>i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to >>p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you Hooking up a computer-controlled scanner, including commercial software to do so: http://www.scancat.com/catalog.html Other RF amusements: commercial EM interference generator: http://www.ar-amps.com/main.htm commercial RF tracking devices: http://www.ti.com/mc/docs/tiris/docs/size.htm magnetron amusements: http://www.glubco.com/weaponry/mag.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig at otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu ``I'm going to the White House to get my presidential kneepads.'' ML Quote of the day http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh0s.htm From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 11:23:39 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:23:39 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281918.NAA08167@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:44:57 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 > (fwd) > >The state is determined *at the time of collapse*. Once the collapse occurs > >the synchronization is no longer present and subsequent events can indeed > >alter the polarization of one particle without altering the other. Simply > >bouncing that photon via refraction off a surface can alter the > >polarization. > > If that is the case, I still don't understand why and out-of-band signal is > required. If the sender collapses the wave function shortly before the > signal reaches the intended receiver its unlikely to have changed > polarization again. What do you mean 'shortly before', the collapse is instantaneous. There ain't no time to send anything. The channle can carry one bit of data, the collapse has occured (1) or it hasn't (0). It isn't like a modem, CD, or other comm channels where you have a bandwidth and can piggy back signals for synchronization by using parts of that bandwidth. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From phelix at vallnet.com Wed Jan 28 11:24:45 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:24:45 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34cf7df6.1786526@128.2.84.191> On 28 Jan 1998 12:24:30 -0600, Tim May wrote: >I personally doubt that any flat spacetime topology (e.g., wormholes >excepted) will admit any FTL signals. A lot of things would dramatically >change if FTL communication existed...not the practical "communication" >issues, which are human social minutiae, but issues about synchronization >of reference frames and causality violations. I remember seeing on one of those science specials on The learning channel (or mabye the Discovery channel) that a professor did figure out (accidentally) how to send information faster than light. The only thing I remember about it was the the signal was some kind of music. I remember now, it was a special on time travel on a month ago. Anybody catch it? -- Phelix From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 11:36:48 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:36:48 +0800 Subject: Oregon no-knock leads to conflict [CNN] Message-ID: <199801281935.NAA08338@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > OFFICER KILLED, 2 WOUNDED IN OREGON SHOOT-OUT > > Map of Oregon January 28, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:06 p.m. EST (1906 GMT) > > PORTLAND, Oregon (AP) -- One officer was killed and two were wounded > in Portland Tuesday as they forced their way through the door of a > home that neighbors say was stocked with high-powered weapons. > > Police with black body armor and shields surrounded the house and > wounded the lone suspect. He was taken out three hours later and > hospitalized with gunshot wounds to the chest and stomach. > > The suspect, identified as 37-year-old Steven Dons, was stripped by > officers and driven away naked and bleeding on the tailgate of an > armored SWAT van. > ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 28 11:53:38 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:53:38 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801281428.IAA06743@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 10:44 AM -0800 1/28/98, Steve Schear wrote: >If that is the case, I still don't understand why and out-of-band signal is >required. If the sender collapses the wave function shortly before the >signal reaches the intended receiver its unlikely to have changed >polarization again. Because the state is not known until time of measurement, at which point the other state takes on the opposite value. (Using the language of "collapsing the wave function," which is, BTW, not the only interpretation.) No information can be sent because the sender cannot pick the values to send. Instead of thinking in terms of a single bit, think in terms of a message, to make the point even clearer. Suppose the message to be sent is "Attack at dawn." Suppose the bit version of this is "1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 .....etc." Now, how does the sender possibly send this? He can't, unless he also sends a signal saying "Ignore the first bit, keep the second bit, keep the third bit, ignore the fourth bit,....." In other words, a key. (And they can't even agree on a key "in advance," because the sender cannot control how the polarizations will come out.) This will have to be my last post on this subject. Please read any of the many basic treatments of these things. As with the endothermic vs. exothermic debate, there is much out there, and the Cypherpunks list is a very poor place to discuss basic quantum mechanics. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From attila at primenet.com Wed Jan 28 12:11:58 1998 From: attila at primenet.com (attila) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:11:58 +0800 Subject: Oregon no-knock leads to conflict [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801281935.NAA08338@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: you're absolutely sure they got the identity correct? you're absolutely sure it wasn't TC May? > Forwarded message: > > > OFFICER KILLED, 2 WOUNDED IN OREGON SHOOT-OUT > > > > Map of Oregon January 28, 1998 > > Web posted at: 2:06 p.m. EST (1906 GMT) > > > > PORTLAND, Oregon (AP) -- One officer was killed and two were wounded > > in Portland Tuesday as they forced their way through the door of a > > home that neighbors say was stocked with high-powered weapons. > > > > Police with black body armor and shields surrounded the house and > > wounded the lone suspect. He was taken out three hours later and > > hospitalized with gunshot wounds to the chest and stomach. > > > > The suspect, identified as 37-year-old Steven Dons, was stripped by > > officers and driven away naked and bleeding on the tailgate of an > > armored SWAT van. > > > __________________________________________________________________________ go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say: yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off. _________________________________________________________________ attila__ To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches.... There is no safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be. From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 12:25:41 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:25:41 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth Message-ID: <199801282017.OAA09290@wire.insync.net> Steve Schear writes" > Why aren't the coding techniques commonly used in telecom and disk > data encoding adequate to both synchonize and convey data? Think of the classical case. I bake two fortune cookies, one with "FOO" written on the slip of paper inside, and the other reading "BAR." I then put them in a box and shake it for quite a while, until the final state has chaotic dependence upon initial conditions, and cannot be predicted. I then keep one fortune cookie, and mail the other one to Lucky Green in Tonga. Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what Lucky will see when he opens his. In doing so, I have created a "instantaneous" correlation between two things separated by a vast distance, which were in an identical state of ambiguity prior to one of them being examined. I am sure we will agree that there was no genuine faster-then-light communication of information in this case. In quantum mechanics, pairs of observables may have the property that both of them may not be known precisely for a physical system. The Heisenberg Uncertainty principle states this for position and momentum. Similar relationships exist for energy and time, polarization or angular momentum measured with respect to different axes, and various other things. In addition, measuring a physical system for one such variable always changes its wavefunction into one for which the value of that variable is precisely specified, and the value of the other "non-commuting" variable is not. You can see this easily with three polarizing filters. If you shine a light through two of them at right angles to each other, it will be completely blocked. But it you insert third filter at a 45 degree angle, some light will get through. This is because light whose polarization is known to be vertical or horizontal is in a mixed state with respect to its polarization rotated 45 degrees. It is therefore tempting to think that perhaps the miracle of quantum mechanics could be employed in our fortune cookie experiment for the transmission of information. I generate many pairs of cookies, with random but identical polarization, keeping one of each pair for myself, and sending the other to Lucky. I then encode a stream of bits by measuring the polarization of 100 cookies, vertically if I wish to transmit a "0", and at a 45 degree angle if I choose to transmit a "1". I then know Lucky's corresponding cookie to be in an exact state with respect to one of these observables, and in a mixed state with respect to the other, and if Lucky measures the vertical polarization of his groups of cookies, there should be a correlation between his results and mine which can only be explained by non-local communication of my choice, on the fly, of which way I measured the polarization, to his apparatus. Now here we have good news and bad news. The good news is that when we do such an experiment, precisely enough to know for sure that there is a spacelike separation between the two measurement events, we do indeed see the correlation predicted by quantum mechanics. The bad news is that either end of the experiment, by itself, cannot see this correlation without knowing what results were obtained by the person at the other end. The correlation is between both ends. There is no experiment that can be done by either end alone which will turn out differently depending upon what the guy at the opposite end is doing. Thus, while such experiments involve non-local communication between two locations separated by a spacelike distance, such communication is obvious only to someone able to see what is going on in both places at once, but not to either isolated experimenter. Hence, the non-local collapse of quantum mechanical wavefunctions cannot be employed for the transmission of information. A similar argument applies to quantum teleporation, in which the value of some measurable variable is transferred from a dynamical system to one of two particles in correlated but unknown quantum states, causing the particle's twin to take on an identical value. Again, a person able to view both systems can see that non-local communication has taken place, but there is nothing either end can do by itself to learn what has transpired at the other end. This is because the correlation which proves non-local communication is present only in combined data from both ends of the experiment, but not in data from either end alone. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 28 12:26:37 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:26:37 +0800 Subject: how to ensure 128 bit netscape is used world wide (Re:Exporting Code the Easy Way) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:29 AM -0800 1/28/98, Adam Back wrote: >The problem is not in the export, which as Tim says happens soon >enough anyway, as anyone can verify looking at www.replay.com where a >good collection of 128 bit browsers can be obtained. > >The problem is netscape's distribution license. I tried to work out ... >This leads to the conclusion that the best thing netscape could do is: > >- not distribute a 40 bit version in electronic form at all, forcing > overseas sites to keep 128 bit versions How about this as an idea: -- encourage Web servers to reply to 40-bit Navigator or Explorer interactions with a message saying: -- "You have communicated with a very insecure 40-bit....." -- "Click here, ...., to update your browser to 128 bits..." (And the "here" site would be some outside-the-U.S. sites, of course.) This would either patch their browser, or with a plug-in. And if their browser cannot be patched, they are at least alerted and can perhaps upgrade. The idea being to make it very easy for customers who were forced to use the 40-bit version, or who got it by default or screwup, to easily update their browsers to full strength. Netscape should make this as easy as possible. (We have discussed "drop-ins" many times over the years, and the possible ITAR/EAR illegality of providing "hooks" or "drop-ins" for thoughtcrime-strength crypto, but I can't imagine anyone being successfully prosecuted on this.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From txporter at mindspring.com Wed Jan 28 12:37:43 1998 From: txporter at mindspring.com (Thomas Porter) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:37:43 +0800 Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980128152643.29e74aca@pop.mindspring.com> At 10:29 AM 1/28/98 -0800, Tim May thoughtfully expounded thus: [Info on various quantum effects snipped] >More info in the sources named. Avoid the pop science treatments by Nick >Herbert, unless other, more mainstream sources are also consulted at the >same time. And definitely avoid the "psi" nonsense of Jack Sarfatti. > >Gribbin's books are pretty good. > While Sarfatti may be a bit whacko. PSI is proving to be anything but nonsense. I agree that there is a _lot_ of "sheep & goats" effect in the literature, but I think Ed May's critiques of the AIR study of Remote Viewing done by SAIC's Cognitive Sciences Laboratory (at http://www.lfr.org/csl/index.html ) are worth reading. MI analysts who did RV at Ft. 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I bake two fortune cookies, one with > "FOO" written on the slip of paper inside, and the other reading > "BAR." I then put them in a box and shake it for quite a while, until > the final state has chaotic dependence upon initial conditions, and > cannot be predicted. I then keep one fortune cookie, and mail the > other one to Lucky Green in Tonga. > > Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what Lucky > will see when he opens his. True, but your opening your cookie does not *force* Lucky to open his at the same time. This is one fault with this model. The 'state' of the cookies are not inter-dependant as the polarization of the photon pairs are. > In doing so, I have created a > "instantaneous" correlation between two things separated by a vast It isn't instantanous, the correlation existed when they were printed and doesn't change. If I destroy one of the cookies it doesn't destroy the other spontaneously as would happen in a correlated photon-pair. The state of the individual cookies exists because of the observer and not a fundamental requirement of the cookies existing. > I am sure we will agree that there was no genuine faster-then-light > communication of information in this case. On this we can agree. > In quantum mechanics, pairs of observables may have the property that > both of them may not be known precisely for a physical system. The > Heisenberg Uncertainty principle states this for position and > momentum. Incorrect. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that in order to measure one parameter the other must *necessarily* change because they are in actuality different aspects of the *same* characteristic. They are *not* indipendant aspects of the system being observed. Momentum and position are different sides of the same coin. A conservation effect is what we are dealing with. This same conservation issue arises, and in fact allows FTL state transitions, with bound photon-pairs. > Similar relationships exist for energy and time, > polarization or angular momentum measured with respect to different > axes, and various other things. In addition, measuring a physical > system for one such variable always changes its wavefunction into one > for which the value of that variable is precisely specified, and the > value of the other "non-commuting" variable is not. Not quite. In the act of measuring one parameter we necessarily change the other. That change is what we can't measure *at the same time* not the absolute value at a given time tau. > You can see this easily with three polarizing filters. If you shine a > light through two of them at right angles to each other, it will be > completely blocked. Only if the light has a single polarization. If you shine a circularly polarized light through you will in fact see light on the other side. [more stuff deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From FisherM at exch1.indy.tce.com Wed Jan 28 13:01:56 1998 From: FisherM at exch1.indy.tce.com (Fisher Mark) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:01:56 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Internet Explorer: Request for Comments Message-ID: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1ECC@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> (taking a deep breath, and donning a flame-resistant Kevlar suit...) We are meeting with Microsoft tomorrow (1/29, 10am EST) to discuss the problems in and needed enhancements for Internet Explorer 4.x. If anyone would care to pass along their comments, I would welcome them. Note that I would prefer serious comments, although any that are both sufficiently humorous and not too defamatory towards Microsoft might also be passed along. (We currently have lists of 73 bugs and 27 enhancement requests...) ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm at indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Browser Torture Specialist, First Class" From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Jan 28 13:11:40 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:11:40 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801282036.OAA08857@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801282103.NAA09138@netcom6.netcom.com> there's a lot of books out on the subject, but one suitable for popular interest is "the cosmic code" by Heinz R. Pagels, it's actually in paperback. does a nice job of giving a straightforward explanation of bell's paradox/inequality. the only relevance of QM to this list I can see is the possibility of computer storage/computation using it. there's a nice article in discover of jan 1998, p94 on Gershenfeld and Chuang's accomplishment of using atomic spin states to compute the sum of two binary digits. (qubits). at the rate science is going I'd say that any major quantum mechanical computation such as factoring a small number is probably at least a decade away. From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 13:15:17 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:15:17 +0800 Subject: shor.html Message-ID: <199801282110.PAA09102@einstein.ssz.com> _________________________________________________________________ next up previous Next: Introduction _________________________________________________________________ ALGORITHMS FOR QUANTUM COMPUTATION: *[1EX] DISCRETE LOG AND FACTORING *[2EX] EXTENDED ABSTRACT Peter W. Shor AT&T Bell Labs Room 2D-149 600 Mountain Ave. Murray Hill, NJ 07974 USA *[2ex] email: shor at research.att.com Abstract: This paper gives algorithms for the discrete log and the factoring problems that take random polynomial time on a quantum computer (thus giving the first examples of quantum cryptanalysis). _________________________________________________________________ * Introduction * Quantum Computation * Building Unitary Transformations * Discrete Log: The Easy Case * A Note on Precision * Discrete Log: The General Case * Factoring * Acknowledgements * References * About this document ... _________________________________________________________________ Isaac Chuang Thu Aug 31 08:48:03 PDT 1995 From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 13:17:13 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:17:13 +0800 Subject: comp.html Message-ID: <199801282114.PAA09205@einstein.ssz.com> _________________________________________________________________ next up previous Next: Computing at the atomic scale _________________________________________________________________ QUANTUM COMPUTATION: A TUTORIAL COOL CENTRAL SITE OF THE HOUR Samuel L. Braunstein Abstract: Imagine a computer whose memory is exponentially larger than its apparent physical size; a computer that can manipulate an exponential set of inputs simultaneously; a computer that computes in the twilight zone of Hilbert space. You would be thinking of a quantum computer. Relatively few and simple concepts from quantum mechanics are needed to make quantum computers a possibility. The subtlety has been in learning to manipulate these concepts. Is such a computer an inevitability or will it be too difficult to build? In this paper we give a tutorial on how quantum mechanics can be used to improve computation. Our challenge: solving an exponentially difficult problem for a conventional computer---that of factoring a large number. As a prelude, we review the standard tools of computation, universal gates and machines. These ideas are then applied first to classical, dissipationless computers and then to quantum computers. A schematic model of a quantum computer is described as well as some of the subtleties in its programming. The Shor algorithm [1,2] for efficiently factoring numbers on a quantum computer is presented in two parts: the quantum procedure within the algorithm and the classical algorithm that calls the quantum procedure. The mathematical structure in factoring which makes the Shor algorithm possible is discussed. We conclude with an outlook to the feasibility and prospects for quantum computation in the coming years. Let us start by describing the problem at hand: factoring a number N into its prime factors (e.g., the number 51688 may be decomposed as ). A convenient way to quantify how quickly a particular algorithm may solve a problem is to ask how the number of steps to complete the algorithm scales with the size of the ``input'' the algorithm is fed. For the factoring problem, this input is just the number N we wish to factor; hence the length of the input is . (The base of the logarithm is determined by our numbering system. Thus a base of 2 gives the length in binary; a base of 10 in decimal.) `Reasonable' algorithms are ones which scale as some small-degree polynomial in the input size (with a degree of perhaps 2 or 3). On conventional computers the best known factoring algorithm runs in steps [3]. This algorithm, therefore, scales exponentially with the input size . For instance, in 1994 a 129 digit number (known as RSA129 [3']) was successfully factored using this algorithm on approximately 1600 workstations scattered around the world; the entire factorization took eight months [4]. Using this to estimate the prefactor of the above exponential scaling, we find that it would take roughly 800,000 years to factor a 250 digit number with the same computer power; similarly, a 1000 digit number would require years (significantly lon ger than the age of the universe). The difficulty of factoring large numbers is crucial for public-key cryptosystems, such as ones used by banks. There, such codes rely on the difficulty of factoring numbers with around 250 digits. Recently, an algorithm was developed for factoring numbers on a quantum computer which runs in steps where is small [1]. This is roughly quadratic in the input size, so factoring a 1000 digit number with such an algorithm would require only a few million steps. The implication is that public key cryptosystems based on factoring may be breakable. To give you an idea of how this exponential improvement might be possible, we review an elementary quantum mechanical experiment that demonstrates where such power may lie hidden [5]. The two-slit experiment is prototypic for observing quantum mechanical behavior: A source emits photons, electrons or other particles that arrive at a pair of slits. These particles undergo unitary evolution and finally measurement. We see an interference pattern, with both slits open, which wholely vanishes if either slit is covered. In some sense, the particles pass through both slits in parallel. If such unitary evolution were to represent a calculation (or an operation within a calculation) then the quantum system would be performing computations in parallel. Quantum parallelism comes for free. The output of this system would be given by the constructive interference among the parallel computations. _________________________________________________________________ * Computing at the atomic scale: * Reversible computation: * Classical universal machines and logic gates: * FANOUT and ERASE: * Computation without ERASE: * Elementary quantum notation: * Logic gates for quantum bits: * Model quantum computer and quantum code: * Quantum parallelism: Period of a sequence: * Factoring numbers: * Prospects: * Appendix: * Acknowledgements: * References * About this document ... _________________________________________________________________ next up previous Next: Computing at the _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Samuel L. Braunstein Wed Aug 23 11:54:31 IDT 1995 From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 28 13:17:44 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:17:44 +0800 Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication Message-ID: <199801282100.WAA07953@basement.replay.com> Tim May writes: > Imagine a pair of photons sent in opposite directions. With different > polarizations, but "tangled." Observer A measures a polarization of "1." > > He then knows that Observer B will measure "0." > > All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built into the > Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And this is not any > kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing the state far away." > No more so than sending two envelopes out, one with a "1" inside and the > other with a "0" inside changes things instantaneously.....) > > No signal sending is possible because neither observer can "change" the > polarization of a photon. Tim May knows no more about quantum mechanics than he does about cryptography. He is wrong about the nature of the correlation between the two photons. Bell's theorem shows that if local realism (a technical concept which is hard to deny) holds, then when Observer A changes the way he performs his measurements, what Observer B sees does change. It is completely mistaken to think of the "two envelope" analogy as applying to quantum correlations. There is something much stranger going on here. Don't trust what Tim May writes. He is not only a hypocrite (complaining about chemistry discussions while adding to an equally off-topic physics thread), but a fool as well. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Jan 28 13:21:09 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:21:09 +0800 Subject: sat survailience In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980127210104.006c5f24@shell15.ba.best.com> Message-ID: At 12:22 am -0500 on 1/28/98, geeman at best.com wrote: > IMPORTANT INFORMATION RESTORED AFTER INEXPLICABLE DELETION: > > >Staff Reporter of WALL STREET JOURNAL> ObExplication: "You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment." Cheers, Bob Hettinga (who's copyright allowable-dollar-decrement variable has decremented rather considerably since President Cliton's new copyright law came into effect...) ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 28 13:47:49 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:47:49 +0800 Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801282139.WAA13688@basement.replay.com> Tim May wrote: > Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals > faster than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by > reading the FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) True, but there are some other interesting effects which could be explained by FTL communication, such as the fact that light diffracted through two slits shows an interference pattern, even though one of the slits is farther away than the light travel time from where the pattern appears. Then there's the fact that light appears to propegate faster in a region of space 'starved' of virtual particles by the casimir effect. That one is a favorite among warp drive theorists. :) From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 14:01:48 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:01:48 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801282036.OAA08857@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801282153.PAA09550@wire.insync.net> Jim Choate writes: >> Think of the classical case. I bake two fortune cookies, one with >> "FOO" written on the slip of paper inside, and the other reading >> "BAR." I then put them in a box and shake it for quite a while, until >> the final state has chaotic dependence upon initial conditions, and >> cannot be predicted. I then keep one fortune cookie, and mail the >> other one to Lucky Green in Tonga. >> Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what >> Lucky will see when he opens his. > True, but your opening your cookie does not *force* Lucky to open his > at the same time. This is one fault with this model. The 'state' of > the cookies are not inter-dependant as the polarization of the photon > pairs are. While it is true that my examining my cookie does not force Lucky to examine his, the same can be said of a photon experiment, where the photons can remain in flight for an arbitrary period of time before being measured. However, if there is no spacelike separation between the two measurments, one has not proved non-local collapse. The state of the cookies is highly correlated, since they have opposite values. The polarization of the photon pairs is similarly correlated, as they have equal values. > It isn't instantanous, the correlation existed when they were printed > and doesn't change. And indeed in the photon case, the entanglement exists when two photons with correlated wavefunctions are created. > If I destroy one of the cookies it doesn't destroy the other > spontaneously as would happen in a correlated photon-pair. Nope. Destroying one of a pair of entangled photons does nothing to the other. Just like the cookies. It's just that measurements on both photons may be correlated in a way which would seem to suggest non-local collapse of their combined wavefunction, if a choice of which of two non-commuting observables to measure is done on the fly. But if I give you one of a pair of entangled photons, I can't make anything happen to that photon at a distance that you can detect by doing something to my photon, even though measurements done on both photons may show a correlation which implies non-local collapse. > Incorrect. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that in order > to measure one parameter the other must *necessarily* change because > they are in actuality different aspects of the *same* characteristic. Not at all. Position and momentum are like location and frequency of a wave. A pure sinusoidal wave exists everywhere on the t axis, and a function whose support is confined to a small region is a superposition of a whole range of frequencies. I cannot make a waveform which is non-zero simultaneously in an arbitrary small portion of the both the time and frequency domains. Similarly I cannot construct a quantum mechanical wavefunction which is confined to an arbitrarily small portion of the position and momentum domains. This does not mean that position and momentum are different aspects of some other dynamical quantity. Both position and momentum are fundamental dynamical variables, in and of themselves. >> You can see this easily with three polarizing filters. If you shine a >> light through two of them at right angles to each other, it will be >> completely blocked. > Only if the light has a single polarization. If you shine a circularly > polarized light through you will in fact see light on the other side. Circularly polarized light is simply a superposition of vertically and horizontally polarized light of different phases. It has no magical ability to make it through two polarizing filters set at 90 degrees to each other. (This is an experiment *YOU* can perform at home!) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From rfarmer at HiWAAY.net Wed Jan 28 14:06:35 1998 From: rfarmer at HiWAAY.net (Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:06:35 +0800 Subject: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? / Destroying encrypted data (Tangent to Re: Burning papers) In-Reply-To: <199801252007.OAA19838@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: [These messages were postponed for trillions of years I finally sent them; apologies if something is grossly outdated.] Been thinking, most applications for ciphers assume solely based on cipher x's keysize that data will be secure for a certain length of time. It'd be nice if we had some way to estimate how long we can hope the cipher to last. Of course, there's no way to predict anything for sure, but you could make an estimate. I'm wondering if there's any way to make a more accurate prediction of how much more analysis it will survive with fancy statistics or something. My idea -- which I know wouldn't work very well, which is why I'm asking if there's a way to actually make a good guess -- is averaging the remaining lifetimes in analysis-hours of broken ciphers which survived as many person-hours of attack as the one in question. =============================================================================== Am I just going crazy, or is it kind of obvious that NSA knew the s-boxes they provided for DES weren't secure? I mean, they pretty much had to know about the attacks outside cryptographers are just now discovering -- they have more than ten years of cryptographers' time every day, and they certainly knew about differential cryptanalysis. Let's hope they don't meddle similarly in AES... =============================================================================== > > Of course, if your documents are on floppy disks, any shredder that > > won't jam on them does a pretty good job :-) > > I burned a couple of floppies, too. Actually I am not sure how good job > would shredding of floppies do. I assume that bits and pieces of data > can still be recovered... But hopefully no one would care enough. One fairly simple feature for disk encryptors that came up during one of the #ElectronicFrontiers (sp?) chats was that of using random numbers with the key so you can demolish an encrypted volume in a split-second. Works like this: there's one 192-bit (or whatever your keylength is) value which is a hash of your passphrase. There's another value, this one a cryptographically random one of the same size, stored on a fixed physical place on the disk. If you wish to destroy the data on powerdown, there can be a third value stored in memory, which is written to disk at authorized shutdown and read+wiped from disk at startup. Anyhow, these two (or three) values are XORed together to form the key used to encrypt the volume. When your adversaries, armed with their trusty rubber hoses, come knocking at and/or down your door, you hit a hotkey to start destroying those 24 bytes on disk, which can be done faster and more effectively than a wipe of every sector in the volume. The folks with the rubber hoses are now, assuming this is their first peek at your disk, screwed; even with your passphrase, they don't know a thing about your data. > > - Igor. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer at hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 14:13:28 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:13:28 +0800 Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication In-Reply-To: <199801282100.WAA07953@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801282204.QAA09588@wire.insync.net> Anonymous writes: > Tim May knows no more about quantum mechanics than he does about > cryptography. He is wrong about the nature of the correlation between > the two photons. Tim is right. Please put this lovely cone-shaped hat on and sit on the stool in the corner. > Don't trust what Tim May writes. He is not only a hypocrite > (complaining about chemistry discussions while adding to an equally > off-topic physics thread), but a fool as well. Aren't comments like this supposed to come with an illustrative ASCII graphic? -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From dave at bureau42.ml.org Wed Jan 28 14:14:04 1998 From: dave at bureau42.ml.org (David E. Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:14:04 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801281106.MAA05137@mail.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: > I learn about you from my teacher. I think he doesn't know you or talk to > you but he tell us about how to cracked windows 95 .pwl or NT. So i'm > interested. By far, the easiest way to crack Windows 95 (or NT) is to put the CD in the microwave. Watch it snap, crackle, and pop. From jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu Wed Jan 28 14:19:55 1998 From: jdblair at frodo.tucc.uab.edu (John Blair) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:19:55 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Internet Explorer: Request for Comments In-Reply-To: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1ECC@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Message-ID: <199801282206.QAA24712@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- FisherM at exch1.indy.tce.com said: > (taking a deep breath, and donning a flame-resistant Kevlar suit...) > We are meeting with Microsoft tomorrow (1/29, 10am EST) to discuss the > problems in and needed enhancements for Internet Explorer 4.x. If > anyone would care to pass along their comments, I would welcome them. > Note that I would prefer serious comments, although any that are both > sufficiently humorous and not too defamatory towards Microsoft might > also be passed along. (We currently have lists of 73 bugs and 27 > enhancement requests...) Suggest that Microsoft encourage peer review of of the portions of IE used for encryption and authentication by publishing the source code used to implement these functions. The quality of the code would certainly improve (I don't believe it could get worse ;) if MS incorporated suggestions in a timely matter. Such a move would also do much to improve Microsoft's reputation in the "hacker" community (that's "hacker" in the good sense, not the intruder/cracker/vandal sense) by showing that they understand that "security through obscurity is no security." If Microsoft (and other companies) hear about the need to do this often enough from enough different source, perhaps they will begin to listen. -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair at uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM+r9AJjTpK3AXhBAQEvBgQAgzqpF/qJKZL10RjcB7ixI2LMQQMHejpN 3L2/97d2wvin7amtdIgyhELnSdkaTmwZsqkbfwinlg/ay0lXx9ygFLgbcC/AsIef 54vbPat3Btu+vTrINRZOomQF85LezlTDKt6fznUaoWqCOGu9L0FeiMPSN9WqY6uG OZg3ZVf/nvY= =j4oQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ghio at temp0200.myriad.ml.org Wed Jan 28 14:44:04 1998 From: ghio at temp0200.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:44:04 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801280413.WAA08034@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801282236.RAA10371@myriad> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > What I still do not understand though is what happens between the > water and ammonium nitrate that consumes so much energy. > > I mean, okay, you need to spend energy to mix these two things. Then, > logically, they should not "want" to mix, right? But empirically, > ammonuim nitrate literally sucks water vapors from the air. How come? For the same reason that water evaporates and the remainder gets colder. The energy is consumed by breaking the chemical bonds in the ammonium nitrate. Temperature is the average amount of kinetic energy of the molecules, and so some molecules are moving faster than average and some are moving more slowly. The fast-moving molecules collide with the ammonium nitrate and their energy is consumed by breaking the ionic bonds. Since the fast-moving molecules get slowed down in the process, the average temperature drops. Eric Cordian wrote: > And for those who may think that endothermic reactions violate some basic > law about entropy always increasing, I should point out that the increase > in entropy from the uniform mixing of two different materials can more > than compensate for the decrease in temperature. Ain't science wonderful? Here's something to ponder: Consider two objects initially at the same temperature. One is at the focus of a hemispherical mirror. An elliptical mirror with both objects at its foci encloses the remaining space. Because of the spherical mirror, the first object reabsorbs most of its heat lost by radiation, but most of the second object's radiated heat is reflected upon the first. Hence the first object becomes warmer relative to the second. The entropy here appears to decrease, but according to thermodynamics that is impossible. Can anyone explain how it is that the total entropy would not decrease? From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 15:26:26 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:26:26 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) Message-ID: <199801282322.RAA09923@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:36:28 -0500 > From: ghio at temp0200.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > Here's something to ponder: > > Consider two objects initially at the same temperature. One is at the > focus of a hemispherical mirror. An elliptical mirror with both objects > at its foci encloses the remaining space. > > Because of the spherical mirror, the first object reabsorbs most of its > heat lost by radiation, but most of the second object's radiated heat is > reflected upon the first. Hence the first object becomes warmer relative > to the second. > > The entropy here appears to decrease, but according to thermodynamics that > is impossible. Can anyone explain how it is that the total entropy would > not decrease? > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, is broken. This is the reason that thermodynamic arguments against evolution fail, the Earth is most certainly *not* a closed system. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 15:33:34 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:33:34 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801282331.RAA09988@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:53:28 -0600 (CST) > >> Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what > >> Lucky will see when he opens his. > > > True, but your opening your cookie does not *force* Lucky to open his > > at the same time. This is one fault with this model. The 'state' of > > the cookies are not inter-dependant as the polarization of the photon > > pairs are. > > While it is true that my examining my cookie does not force Lucky to > examine his, the same can be said of a photon experiment, where the > photons can remain in flight for an arbitrary period of time before > being measured. Um, actualy no. Since the photons are coupled we know that the second photon has actualy changed it's polarization, either that or your original assumption they are coupled is not true. The polarization between the two photons *must* be zero. Otherwise you arent' playing with our physics. > The state of the cookies is highly correlated, since they have > opposite values. The polarization of the photon pairs is similarly > correlated, as they have equal values. Correlation is not a function of any quantity conservation operation. The values of the photons are actualy opposite and therefore sum to zero. Foo is not the inverse of Bar, as is the case for horizontal and vertical polarization. > > It isn't instantanous, the correlation existed when they were printed > > and doesn't change. > > And indeed in the photon case, the entanglement exists when two > photons with correlated wavefunctions are created. True, but the swap of polarization was *not*. That occured later and is what changes instantly irrespective of distance. > > If I destroy one of the cookies it doesn't destroy the other > > spontaneously as would happen in a correlated photon-pair. > > Nope. Destroying one of a pair of entangled photons does nothing to > the other. Yes, it causes the correlation to be destroyed. You are not taking into account the correllation or polarization dependency between the two photons. Our base assumption is that when photon A is horizontal then photon B is vertical. This *must* occur to preserve symmetry. [more stuff deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 16:12:32 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:12:32 +0800 Subject: More down-to-earth apps for quantum teleportation... Message-ID: <199801290008.SAA10115@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, On a slightly different tack, consider the application of quantum teleportation to computer construction issues related to propagation delays and multiplexing of data and control lines in limited volumes. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From sunder at sundernet.com Wed Jan 28 16:25:42 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:25:42 +0800 Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 From: Salvatore Denaro To: 'Ray Arachelian' Subject: Can someone look this up? Can someone on the list look this up? *************************************************************** If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their vehicles? From jya at pipeline.com Wed Jan 28 16:32:41 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:32:41 +0800 Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980129002722.0070cbe4@pop.pipeline.com> >Can someone on the list look this up? > >*************************************************************** >If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does >Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, >implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. >citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their >vehicles? Very SETI/UFO-mysterious. Here's what's listed (three times) at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/index.html [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 14, Volume 5, Parts 1200 to end] [Revised as of January 1, 1997] >From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 14CFR1211] [Page 75] TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE CHAPTER V--NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PART 1211--[Reserved] ---------- That's the entire entry. From jim at mentat.com Wed Jan 28 16:34:07 1998 From: jim at mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:34:07 +0800 Subject: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? / Destroying encrypted data (Tangent to Re: Burning papers) Message-ID: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Randall Farmer skribis: > Been thinking, most applications for ciphers assume solely based on cipher x's > keysize that data will be secure for a certain length of time. ... > My idea ... is averaging the remaining lifetimes in > analysis-hours of broken ciphers which survived as many person-hours of attack > as the one in question. Doesn't seem terribly likely. Typically ciphers will look strong until someone discovers a chink. The chink will sometimes lead to a serious break, but not always, and not always quickly -- but at that point the cipher looks weak. Your best chance at encrypting stuff that needs a long shelf life is with a cipher that's had a lot of analysis and plenty of intrinsic key, like 3DES. > Am I just going crazy, or is it kind of obvious that NSA knew the s-boxes they > provided for DES weren't secure? The former. The S-boxes they replaced were bogus, and the ones they came up with were good against differential cryptanalysis -- better than random ones. There's no a priori reason to believe they knew about linear cryptanalysis, and in any case Matsui's l.c. attack on DES is better than brute force only in situations where you have a great deal of known or chosen plaintext. So how come you claim they aren't secure? DES isn't suitable for long-archived info, but is still OK for short-lifetime data against a not-too-motivated attacker: its only known weakness for this application is its key-length, not its S-boxes. > Anyhow, these two (or three) values are XORed together to form the key used to > encrypt the volume. When your adversaries, armed with their trusty rubber > hoses, come knocking at and/or down your door, you hit a hotkey to start > destroying those 24 bytes on disk, which can be done faster and more > effectively than a wipe of every sector in the volume. The folks with the I like it! Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 00:27 12.19.4.15.17, 8 Caban 15 Muan, Second Lord of Night From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 16:37:31 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:37:31 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801282331.RAA09988@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801290030.SAA09986@wire.insync.net> Jim Choate writes: > Um, actualy no. Since the photons are coupled we know that the second > photon has actualy changed it's polarization, either that or your > original assumption they are coupled is not true. No. Doing something to the first photon does not do anything to the second, much less change its polarization. The operators for polarization for the two photons commute, so they are simultaneously measureable. The statistical correlation of measurements done on many pairs of photons, with a choice of axis for measuring the polarization selected on the fly, reflects that predicted by quantum mechanics for non-local collapse of the overall wave function. It is wrong to interpret this as something done to one photon having a physical effect on the other. > The polarization between the two photons *must* be zero. Otherwise you > arent' playing with our physics. Sorry, *OUR* physics explains all of this quite nicely. > Correlation is not a function of any quantity conservation operation. > The values of the photons are actualy opposite and therefore sum to > zero. Foo is not the inverse of Bar, as is the case for horizontal and > vertical polarization. This isn't even wrong. > True, but the swap of polarization was *not*. That occured later and > is what changes instantly irrespective of distance. There is no "swap of polarizations." The wavefunction of the entire system changes quite smoothly with time, under the influence of the usual operator. Measurement places the system in an eigenstate for the thing measured, and simultaneous measurements on branch systems may show correlations consistant with non-local collapse of the wavefunction. None of this implies any physical effect on one photon as a result of something done to the other. > Yes, it causes the correlation to be destroyed. You are not taking > into account the correllation or polarization dependency between the > two photons. Our base assumption is that when photon A is horizontal > then photon B is vertical. This *must* occur to preserve symmetry. This isn't even wrong, either. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 16:42:25 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:42:25 +0800 Subject: waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=3424713596+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve Message-ID: <199801290041.SAA10375@einstein.ssz.com> [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 14, Volume 5, Parts 1200 to end] [Revised as of January 1, 1997] >From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 14CFR1211] [Page 75] TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE CHAPTER V--NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PART 1211--[Reserved] From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 16:45:56 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:45:56 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801290044.SAA10449@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:30:56 -0600 (CST) > No. Doing something to the first photon does not do anything to the > second, much less change its polarization. The operators for > polarization for the two photons commute, so they are simultaneously > measureable. This is the last I'm going to respond to this. The photons are 'entangled' which means their states are linked and co-dependant. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jan 28 16:48:08 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:48:08 +0800 Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801290045.SAA10499@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:16:36 -0500 (EST) > From: Ray Arachelian > Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 > From: Salvatore Denaro > To: 'Ray Arachelian' > Subject: Can someone look this up? > > Can someone on the list look this up? > > *************************************************************** > If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does > Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, > implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. > citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their > vehicles? It is of some interest to note that in the movie 'Andromeda Strain' the code that trips Wildfire is a '1211'... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 28 17:01:58 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:01:58 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801290055.BAA14039@basement.replay.com> Eric Cordian writes: > Anonymous writes: > > > Tim May knows no more about quantum mechanics than he does about > > cryptography. He is wrong about the nature of the correlation between > > the two photons. > > Tim is right. Please put this lovely cone-shaped hat on and sit on > the stool in the corner. So, you agree with Tim May's statement that: > All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built into the > Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And this is not any > kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing the state far away." > No more so than sending two envelopes out, one with a "1" inside and the > other with a "0" inside changes things instantaneously.....) You agree with the foolish statement that the behavior of correlated photons is no more weird than sending out two envelopes? I thought you had more sense than that. Are you under the impression that opening envelopes can in any way violate Bell's inequality, as measuring correlated photons can? Please! How do you explain the violation of Bell's theorem in QM? What is your nice, cozy, friendly, un-weird explanation? I'm curious whether you are going to sacrifice locality or reality. Somehow I think you'll have to go beyond what is necessary to explain the behavior of envelopes. From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 17:01:59 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:01:59 +0800 Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801290058.SAA10069@wire.insync.net> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 > From: Salvatore Denaro > To: 'Ray Arachelian' > Subject: Can someone look this up? > Can someone on the list look this up? > *************************************************************** > If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does > Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, > implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. > citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their > vehicles? This legislation was passed in the Apollo era, and gave the government the right to quarantine vehicles and personnel which had come in contact with anything not of terrestrial origin. It was aimed at writing into law a legal right for NASA to engage in the type of isolation procedures done after the first moon landing, and was not passed with UFOs in mind. It's on the Web somewhere, but I don't recall the URL. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 28 17:04:27 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:04:27 +0800 Subject: References to FTL tunneling experiment In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801290100.CAA14836@basement.replay.com> Phelix wrote: > I remember seeing on one of those science specials on The learning channel > (or mabye the Discovery channel) that a professor did figure out > (accidentally) how to send information faster than light. The only thing I > remember about it was the the signal was some kind of music. http://i02aix1.desy.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw75.html http://www.uni-koeln.de/~abb11/ http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.fringeware.com/msg/1996/msg00155.html From jim at mentat.com Wed Jan 28 17:25:53 1998 From: jim at mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:25:53 +0800 Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: <9801290114.AA13878@mentat.com> Ray Arachelian skribis: > Can someone on the list look this up? > > *************************************************************** > If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does > Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, > implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. > citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their > vehicles? An authoritative-looking message from Ken Jenks of NASA appears at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8148/quaranti.html . It says this section was repealed 26 Apr 1991, and that the intent was to allow for a quarantine after the Apollo missions. The full text appears on that page. It talks about exposure to lunar material from NASA space shots, rather than UFO contacts. Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 01:13 12.19.4.15.18, 9 Edznab 16 Muan, Third Lord of Night From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 18:11:44 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:11:44 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801290055.BAA14039@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801290203.UAA10294@wire.insync.net> An Entity at Replay writes: > So, you agree with Tim May's statement that: >> All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built >> into the Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And >> this is not any kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing >> the state far away." No more so than sending two envelopes out, one >> with a "1" inside and the other with a "0" inside changes things >> instantaneously.....) > You agree with the foolish statement that the behavior of correlated > photons is no more weird than sending out two envelopes? I thought > you had more sense than that. With correlated branch systems, examination of one branch can disclose information about another branch which is currently distant from us. This is no more weird in the quantum mechanical case, than it is in the classical case. The envelope analogy is perfectly appropriate. That's not to say that quantum mechanical systems aren't "weird" in ways that classical systems are not. It's just that this is not one of those areas of weirdness. > How do you explain the violation of Bell's theorem in QM? What is > your nice, cozy, friendly, un-weird explanation? I'm curious whether > you are going to sacrifice locality or reality. Somehow I think > you'll have to go beyond what is necessary to explain the behavior of > envelopes. The wavefunction of the universe is not a physical observable. I do not have to sacrifice causality for physical phemonema to have non-local collapse of the wavefunction when measurements are performed. A satisfactory theory of quantum mechanical measurement does not currently exist, and it has even been conjectured that gravitation may be the sole force immune from quantum mechanical superposition, and that this may be the mechanism behind wavefunction collapse. There are other hypotheses as well, and the experiments to distinguish amongst them have yet to be performed. A correct theory of quantum mechanical measurement will disclose the mechanisms by which things like non-local wavefunction collapse, quantum teleporation, the quantum eraser effect, and other current oddities are mediated. This will undoubtedly involve a deeper understanding of how quantum gravity works, and perhaps even the physics underlying the existence of consciousness itself. However, none of this implies in the least that a physical effect is propagated non-causally across vast distances when a conscious choice is made to measure one of two non-commuting observables for one of a pair of "entangled" particles, which, I believe, is what the current argument is over. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Jan 28 18:28:15 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:28:15 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801290044.SAA10449@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801290224.UAA10328@wire.insync.net> Jim Choate writes: > This is the last I'm going to respond to this. > The photons are 'entangled' which means their states are linked and > co-dependant. The states are no more "co-dependent" than two copies of the same book at different locations on the planet are. The primary difference in the quantum mechanical case is that because of superposition, each might be a mixed state of several books, and only the act of measurement would disclose which one, and that a decision to examine one of several non-commuting observables might be made after the books had been produced and were in transit. This would *NOT* imply in any way that examination of one book had any physical effect on the other, although correlation of measurements made on both books might demonstrate non-local collapse of the QM wavefunction, which is not, and never has been, a physical quantity. I can think of even a more extreme case. Suppose I have the same Barium atom in two laser traps tuned to different excited states and separated by a distance of 1,000 miles. I now have a 50/50 superposition of one state here, and a different state 1000 miles away. Even with the *SAME* particle in two different places, nothing I do to it in one place is detectable by a scientist in its other location, and the only correlations which demonstrate non-local effects require data from measurements from both of them. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From webmaster at freshteens.com Thu Jan 29 10:32:17 1998 From: webmaster at freshteens.com (Webmaster) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:32:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Earn $20 Per Signup Message-ID: Webmasters: Are you tired of wondering if the hits you are sending to your sponsors are being counted ??? Are you really sure whether the hit you sent was a RAW, a UNIQUE, or something else ??? Well MoJo Money eliminates those problems all together. We will pay you a flat rate of $15 for every FREE weekly membership you send and $20 for every other membership type !!! That's right... $15-$20 for EVERY signup !!! Check out our benefits to you: - No Raw/Unique hassles...You are paid for every signup you generate. - Your commission checks are prepared BI-WEEKLY by payroll processing firm ADP... No bullshit waiting for checks to be written by hand. And no minimum balance required. You will receive your check regardless of your commission. - You are offering a FREE membership to a GREAT site... Your signups will go through the roof with this program !!! - Real-Time on line stats! When a sale is approved you get INSTANT credit for it on your stats page. This is an actual stats page for one of our participating webmasters. Goto http://www.freshteens.com/mojomoney and see why over 600 webmasters have already joined the program !!! From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 28 18:36:23 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:36:23 +0800 Subject: Chaining ciphers In-Reply-To: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Message-ID: At 4:26 PM -0800 1/28/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >Doesn't seem terribly likely. Typically ciphers will look strong until >someone discovers a chink. The chink will sometimes lead to a serious >break, but not always, and not always quickly -- but at that point the >cipher looks weak. Your best chance at encrypting stuff that needs a >long shelf life is with a cipher that's had a lot of analysis and >plenty of intrinsic key, like 3DES. Carl Ellison talks about his strategy for chaining several ciphers. I'm surprised more emphasis isn't given to doing this. For example, suppose one chains 3DES, Blowfish, MISTY, IDEA, and GHOST together (I haven't checked Schneier on these, but you all presumably get the idea). Then if any one of these ciphers is shown to be weak, the overall chain remains strong. The overall chain is as strong as its strongest link, not its weakest link. I don't think 3DES is weak, but chaining-in additional ciphers can't hurt. (Just a minor slowdown in encipherment speed, presumably not important for some critical uses.) -- Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From freakazoid at 12574.com Thu Jan 29 10:45:21 1998 From: freakazoid at 12574.com (Freakazoid) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:45:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: FUA - Great Underground Message-ID: <199801291845.KAA24113@toad.com> Dear Undergrounders! This is a Transmition from Freakazoid. I just want to tell you that FUA - Freakazoid`s Underground Archive is now comming up. Whith much, much moore undergound and eligal things than you can ever imagen. http://freakazoid.simplenet.com /Freakazoid From freakazoid at 14749.com Thu Jan 29 11:18:22 1998 From: freakazoid at 14749.com (Freakazoid) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:18:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: FUA - Has Open Message-ID: <199801291859.KAA28446@geocities.com> Hi! Freakazoid`s Undergorund Archive Is About to Open. Please Stop by. It`s cool. Hacking Phreaking Carding Undergorund And much, much moore http://freakazoid.simplenet.com /Freakazoid From seo85 at prodigy.com Thu Jan 29 11:44:24 1998 From: seo85 at prodigy.com (seo85 at prodigy.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:44:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: BUISNESS IS BOOMING Message-ID: <199801294013VAA41033@post.com.tw> WE ARE VERY EXCITED TO ANNOUNCE, National Software Company is currently seeking independent agents for marketing their services. 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Call for exciting message! 312-409-7743 =cyperse From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jan 28 20:23:20 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:23:20 +0800 Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801290415.FAA08964@basement.replay.com> >Get a Chemisty 101/2 book. You must have been in the bone head chemistry >class. I think you mean `a bone head chemistry class.' My old college book doesn't have it either, and I took two semesters of the stuff... From schneier at counterpane.com Wed Jan 28 20:32:10 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:32:10 +0800 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 In-Reply-To: <199801280047.QAA09732@comsec.com> Message-ID: A bunch of us cryptographers would really like to attack RPK, but the documents on the website are slippery enough to make it difficult. There is enough unspecified for them to sneak away from any analysis. If someone were to reverse engineer the RPK cryptosystem from this product, I would really appreciate it. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 http://www.counterpane.com From anon at anon.efga.org Wed Jan 28 21:38:56 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:38:56 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: What was the URL again? I got that at work and want to re-visit site tonite at home. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 28 22:14:12 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:14:12 +0800 Subject: patent office and key recovery Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980129053039.00798ae0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Steve Bellovin posted this to cryptography: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's NY Times had an article on how the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office is gearing up for electronic filing of patent and trademark applications (http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/012698patents.html). Since patent applications here are confidential, filings must be encrypted. And of course, one of the things holding up deployment -- of a system where a government agency is the legitimate recipient of the message -- is the "need" for key recovery. "The agency wants to include a "key recovery" system in the software in case the encryption has to be broken." The mind boggles. ---------------------------------------------- From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 29 03:06:46 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:06:46 +0800 Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801291045.LAA19417@basement.replay.com> Eric Cordian writes: > An Entity at Replay writes: > > > You agree with the foolish statement that the behavior of correlated > > photons is no more weird than sending out two envelopes? I thought > > you had more sense than that. > > With correlated branch systems, examination of one branch can disclose > information about another branch which is currently distant from us. > This is no more weird in the quantum mechanical case, than it is in > the classical case. The envelope analogy is perfectly appropriate. > > That's not to say that quantum mechanical systems aren't "weird" in > ways that classical systems are not. It's just that this is not one > of those areas of weirdness. It's much worse than this. The violation of Bell's inequality implies that changes to the basis used to measure one particle cause changes in the observed state of the remote particle. Of course this can't be used to transmit information; we all agree on that. The remote particle has a random orientation. But the point is, Bell's theorem shows that the remote orientation depends on how the local measurement is done. This is not a matter of simply perceiving or deducing what the conditions are at the remote branch, as in the envelope case. A better analogy would be an envelope which could be opened in two ways, from the top or from the bottom. If you open from the top then the remote envelope will have the same contents as the local one, while if you open from the bottom then the remote envelope will have the opposite contents. In each case the contents are random; the remote observer has no idea whether you opened from the top or the bottom. But somehow your decision on how to open the envelope (what basis to measure the photon) is changing how these globally separated subsystems relate to each other. (This analogy isn't perfect, either, because it might seem that magic changes to the local contents could make the envelope work. Bell's reasoning shows that it is the remote photon's state which must be altered by the choice of how to measure the local one.) This is the fundamental flaw in the envelope analogy, which makes it seriously flawed and misleading. It gives the impression that some kind of hidden variables (the contents within the envelope) can easily solve the problem, when nothing could be further from the truth. It papers over one of the most mysterious facets of quantum mechanics, by making it appear to be mundane. It represents a fundamentally mistaken way to view remote correlated particles. > > How do you explain the violation of Bell's theorem in QM? What is > > your nice, cozy, friendly, un-weird explanation? I'm curious whether > > you are going to sacrifice locality or reality. Somehow I think > > you'll have to go beyond what is necessary to explain the behavior of > > envelopes. > > The wavefunction of the universe is not a physical observable. I do > not have to sacrifice causality for physical phemonema to have > non-local collapse of the wavefunction when measurements are > performed. A satisfactory theory of quantum mechanical measurement > does not currently exist, and it has even been conjectured that > gravitation may be the sole force immune from quantum mechanical > superposition, and that this may be the mechanism behind wavefunction > collapse. There are other hypotheses as well, and the experiments to > distinguish amongst them have yet to be performed. > > A correct theory of quantum mechanical measurement will disclose the > mechanisms by which things like non-local wavefunction collapse, > quantum teleporation, the quantum eraser effect, and other current > oddities are mediated. This will undoubtedly involve a deeper > understanding of how quantum gravity works, and perhaps even the > physics underlying the existence of consciousness itself. OK, so you can't explain it. Fine, it is indeed a mysterious phenomenon, and no doubt you are correct that more insights will come in the future. Now, compare this with the envelope analogy Tim May offered: >> All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built >> into the Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And >> this is not any kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing >> the state far away." No more so than sending two envelopes out, one >> with a "1" inside and the other with a "0" inside changes things >> instantaneously.....) Are you at all tempted to resort to such language in trying to understand how the envelopes could work? Is it puzzling how we could open one here and find a 1 and suddenly know that there is a 0 in the remote envelope? Do we need to learn more about how measurements of envelope contents work before we can begin to tackle this thorny philosophical conundrum? Of course not! The envelope case is transparently obvious. There are no puzzles here, no complexities, no confusion. The only confusion is in the minds of those who think that correlated envelopes have anything to do with correlated photons, or that the hidden variables which perfectly well explain what is happening with the envelopes shed any light whatsoever on the workings of nonlocal QM systems. > However, none of this implies in the least that a physical effect is > propagated non-causally across vast distances when a conscious choice > is made to measure one of two non-commuting observables for one of a > pair of "entangled" particles, which, I believe, is what the current > argument is over. No, the current argument is over how much of a jackass Tim May is. From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Thu Jan 29 19:28:22 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:28:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Microsoft Internet Explorer: Request for Comments In-Reply-To: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1ED3@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Message-ID: <31m4Je7w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Fisher Mark writes: > >One small beef: why doesn't it accept .p12 certificates signed by > >"Vesign web site CA"? > > Are these PEM or DER-encoded? There is a known problem with PEM-encoded > Certificate Authority certificates not being accepted at all. > (DER-encoded Certificate Authority certificates are accepted, but MSIE > 4.x won't display their contents while you are accepting them -- you > have to accept them, then view their contents.) Let me illustrate... This is the cypherpunks.p12 certificate signed by "VeriSign Web Site Access CA" for cypherpunks at bwalk.dm.com (Random Q. Hacker). I believe it's x509/DER. You need to save it as a local file (say \temp\cypherpunks.p12). The password ("pin") is "cypherpunks". To import the certificate in your Netscape[tm] Navigator 4 browser I do this: Click on Communicator -> Security Info Under Certificates, click on Yours, then on "Import a Certificate" Select the local file. Type in the pin (cypherpunks) when prompted. (see http://www.verisign.com/netscape/transport/import.html) begin 644 cypherpunks.p12 M,(`"`0,P@`8)*H9(AO<-`0.2Z:PG+<[[4/IY?*.4!T MK';3SKEA(^\%Z*OM-9I]CF&7\JL)B^66QJJ4*JN`E;3`$M at NO.]C^ MV\L3ZYM*ACS(T!^G"+65090XNX'R`XNW?%5#CUO]P>2(\/!BP@%G,D>6?`418[(:!H9#KVS MVS>3$9XYJ)I\1/*JA=Y-G('Z at C]S(E8M8E%:*TOZ-J95+8S3'`ED)=\T)'ZV MN?0AD"(10+9,?]JWCS+&+ABVD]7%SJ/LF;`A2PCSPO)1T.))_,WN^!,]?_OP MOM)#IPWOF"T@=ZJ5'PIZP9/I90,%. at W(B?8>!$)^/^*XTB8E=NW\$H- M&[Q>:*6)'SX1X=:@ND]S,I;E"$I(*M='"I^##U^)R<_K3Q^IJ`XPO[M4GJ:] MC*(8%:R;X%HCD#!XK#L;@3SQ#O5YP7(S)'T%V$T$`00$`0$$`3$$`00$`0$$ M`7P$`00$`0$$`3`$`00$`0$$`54$`00$`0$$`08$`00$`0$$`0D$`00$`0D$ M"2J&2(;W#0$)%`0!!`0!`00!,00!!`0!`00!2`0!!`0!`00!'@0!!`0!`00! M1 at 0!!`0!1 at 1&`%(`80!N`&0`;P!M`"``40`N`"``2`!A`&,`:P!E`'(`)P!S M`"``5@!E`'(`:0!3`&D`9P!N`"``20!N`&,`+@`@`$D`1`0!!`0!`00!,`0! M!`0!`00!(P0!!`0!`00!!@0!!`0!`00!"00!!`0!"00)*H9(AO<-`0D5!`$$ M!`$!!`$Q!`$$!`$!!`$6!`$$!`$!!`$$!`$$!`$!!`$4!`$$!`$4!!12<=Q. 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M26,X[=:P9J^?$R&"075RLR/2&S,8:["[A&&BSR=PYS.=C]=UXLAAQ<46OMBN MQQ1R;?UBB-?4B-$^5V@\5+O8*V1V8A5-KV)C(T44+&8/H3#Y8=TC;6[T];;2 MO0!!R8]A]:S^WS^CS<\D)N52%Q3E1F!^C5:D9Y[&[3_$_!D0;"<*81\G29KU MH2`VK>GK"-ON7Q9X]94DIC?=]VDF3 at U>Y;H5HO.4PUV=J)*!+I0SGJ0P#B1' M!LB8?YSL5*"YOF+[X(V1`)R^T=H.JQFEEB+!@YL::3#&";_Z:1B@*>-20K\. 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MX^5!X57W2\X3EFVX1?'DPKEG2MVTQ/L+(RZN%'(6ZGI4'9*YC#MP$@DE\4F4 MIS\]@@QP6SA2/O7,V1@?PV M,@`;5=#6R94NEWSW5=ND`Y=XK"(WB+O0"@CH at G^`>X_LZ[Q1`:Q:,ICV**C] M/)L9`[77V2X<_8RA!!G:]D\[N\##7TWJC7"%%(&'F@]SD(*4?>B49?,Y6(1W M6 at I]0)_5**YN%-W at 2?ZZ98MGW=X+:304&Q8JY[R-U"`%ZWJ> M(E!)JP3"?1>OH>?\I&D'D5+J+M%4Z%$:0TML_3591QLN&9H&E at JJ/M93F"Z%W'FG2_.1ME6QIO,Y1`!+?M0N,FM!27.%%/G_:3 M-LZ^)G at G69#(AGUR''7E$W/Y6A;(`N==^CKFP`K#M03T!NY@< M$9>'M5YJ"A'*,#G:KF;/%("QPK7R)*Y0EO9,%*F'*\8H`BL&P\'B-'EW at RR& MM:S07"6\/&%>AT[FX_#<#*^DEE?[?:;&'W;[X9]?)4U]_;&:<%%0Y''2BOU/:E4Y$J"8Z6ZU&! MU\B\$$R90-@<7WZ+2ILRSYFYSM\&"8E(&P%F"J MB9]]6/"['02-$;)'J2TWE!&P;:+8S';SFFCU`K!QFH`;<)-^Z9)L*!H[(\++ MIN?K$W*\./L#K?*A&B2IJ,8]_C>`K,4R)DQ1N>WCL"E^J.40C]HW%N")D(6XOX#CQX,[C&V at 0.1`E[87 Internet options -> Content tab Click the "personal" button under Certificates A new window opens. Click on Import Type in the name of your local file and the password (cypherpunks). IE simply says it can't import it, with no details! I *assume* it's because "Vesign web site CA" isn't even listed among the authorities IE accepts (and I'm too lasy to search the web for whatever I need to add to IE) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From invest at juno.com Thu Jan 29 21:08:50 1998 From: invest at juno.com (invest at juno.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:08:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: The # 1 Stock Recommendation Service Is Free Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@yes.com> We are very excited to inform you about the most accurate and reliable e-mail stock recommendation service on the net today. What's even better is that it is free. Damex research specializes in the following areas: 1.) Finding undiscovered and undervalued stocks that have tremendous potential for dramatic appreciation. 2.) Uncover low priced stocks on the verge of breakouts from stagnant positions. Usually the company chosen will have recently undertaken a change in management, obtained a research breakthrough, made an important acquisition, developed a remarkable new product or obtained important financing. Any of these factors could lead to rapid price appreciation 3.) Identifies over priced companies ripe for selling short. Includes price to go short with stop loss for all short positions. All recommendations are easy to implement and are low stress and high profit stock and option trades We have to earn your trust. Our staff understands that most people don't have the time and resources to do the in depth research and analysis necessary for successful investing.That's why thousands of investors prefer Damex Research to do it for them. To Subcribe Send your e-mail address to damex3 at juno.com From sunder at sundernet.com Thu Jan 29 06:55:02 1998 From: sunder at sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:55:02 +0800 Subject: More reasons why Nynex is evil... (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:08:27 -0500 From: Salvatore DeNaro To: Ray Arachelian Subject: More reasons why Nynex is evil... http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/metcalfe/metcalfe.htm From adam at homeport.org Thu Jan 29 07:49:12 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:49:12 +0800 Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801291536.KAA25295@homeport.org> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode The UScode online, searchable, indexed. Way cool reference material. Ray Arachelian wrote: | ---------- Forwarded message ---------- | Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 | From: Salvatore Denaro | To: 'Ray Arachelian' | Subject: Can someone look this up? | | Can someone on the list look this up? | | *************************************************************** | If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does | Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, | implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. | citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their | vehicles? | | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From info at mda.net Fri Jan 30 00:29:49 1998 From: info at mda.net (info at mda.net) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:29:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: PRO2H PRODUCTS - NATURAL SKIN WEAR Message-ID: <> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THE MAILING LIST PLEASE E-MAIL TO: remove at mda.net AND PUT REMOVE IN THE SUBJECT HEADER. THANK YOU.//////////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// PRO 2H PRODUCTS NATURAL SKIN WEAR - 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! SKINWEAR:The Hottest Ingredients, The Latest Technology Let Pro 2H Products introduce you to a world of new product innovations that have enjoyed immediate commercial success. Pro 2H proudly introduces SKINWEAR - a high performance, botanical skincare line that blends the hottest ingredients with the latest technology. These are products that address the needs of today's cosmetic buyer by providing product choices to help counteract the effects of sun damage, aging, pollution, wind, severe temperatures and much, much, more. ENVIRONMENTALLY RESPONSIBLE In today's rapidly changing world, we are confronted with the challenge of balancing creativity and environmental responsibility. Pro 2H Product's environmental stance has sparked the development of product innovations that will help meet tomorrow's environmental goals head on. Use of recyclable containers, natural ingredients and the continuing committment by our staff never to test on animals are just a few of the environmentallysound programs we are committed to. We are known throughout the industry for our integrity, reliability and product superiority. We deliver products and services that meet the changing needs of our customers, that is what gives us a distinct advantage over our competitors. Now more than ever, we've got what it takes to help achieve beautiful, radiant, younger-looking skin. INTRODUCING........Pro ALPHA H2 Pro ALPHA H2 is a scientific breakthrough formula containing a combination of ALPHA HYDROXY Fruit Acids including Glycolic Acid-derived from apples,sugar cane and citrus. Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with Alpha Hydroxy Acids. This natural fruit acid complex works with your skin's natural renewal processes to help achieve healthier, younger looking skin. COMMON USES: * Sun Damaged Skin * Age Spots * Uneven Pigmentation * Blemishes * Premature Aging * Wrinkles * Rough Dry Patches * Smooth Fine Lines THE BEAUTY OF ALPHA H2 *This natural fruit acid complex works with your natural process to help achieve healthier, younger-looking skin. *Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with Alpha Hydroxy *Helps increase skin's own ability to absorb and retain moisture. *Promotes natural exfoliation by removing dry, lifeless cells from skin's outer layer. *Helps protect new healthy skin cells against free radical and damaging environmental effects. *Retexturize - increaing clarity, firmness, elasticity and evenness in skin tone. *Leaves skin feeling clean, freah, and healthy. *Absorbs quickley with no greasy residue. INTRODUCING PRO BEMA 2H Pro BEMA2H is a new blend of natural botanical ingredients and contains the world's most effective Aloe Vera extract. TREATS: * Acne * Abrasions * Athlete's Foot * Allergic Rash * Burns * Bed Sores * Bee Stings * Bruises * Blisters * Boils * Chapped Skin * Chapped Lips * Cradle Cap * Chemical Peel * Diaper Rash * Dermabrassion* Dermatitis * Dry Skin * Eczema * Flea Bites * Fungus * Fever Blisters * Hives * Insect Bites * Itching * Impetigo * Jock Itch * Keratosis * Lupus * Psoriasis * Poison Ivy * Poison Oak * Razor Burns * Rashes * Radiation * Rosacea * Shingles * Burns * Stretch Marks * Sunburn * Wind Burns * Very Dry Skin * Stops itching caused by poison oak, poison ivy, insect bites and rashes. * Instantly stops pain from cuts, scrapes, burns and sunburn, without peeling. * Heals athlete's foot and other fungus. * 16 Hour moisturizer. * Excellent skin softener, it protects against environmental pollutants. * Helps guard against the effects of exposure to sun and wind. * Great for baby's skin for rashes, dry patches. 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Enhanced with invigorating, aromathreapy botanicals and Alpha Hydroxy Complex to leave your body silky, refreshed, and revitalized. ph balanced. * Soap-free, non-drying formula * Contains Alpha Hydroxy-based skin softeneing complex * Refreshing aromatic fragrance KEY INGREDIENTS: Vitamin A and E Beads, Alpha Hydroxy based skin softening complex, Panthenol, Aloe Vera Gel, Aromatherapy Botanical Extracts of Peach, Passion Fruit, Apricot and Mango. METHOD OF USE: In the Shower: Lather on moist skin, or apply to damp wash cloth, sponge or loofah, massage and rinse. For the Bath: Pour under warm running water for a luxurious, scented bubble bath. 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! IF FOR ANY REASON YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH OUR PRODUCTS, RETURN THE UNUSED PORTION WITHIN 30 DAYS AND WE WILL GLADLY REFUND YOUR MONEY. For More Information visit our site at: http://www.mda.net From info at mda.net Fri Jan 30 00:29:49 1998 From: info at mda.net (info at mda.net) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:29:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: PRO2H PRODUCTS - NATURAL SKIN WEAR Message-ID: <> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THE MAILING LIST PLEASE E-MAIL TO: remove at mda.net AND PUT REMOVE IN THE SUBJECT HEADER. THANK YOU.//////////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// PRO 2H PRODUCTS NATURAL SKIN WEAR - 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! SKINWEAR:The Hottest Ingredients, The Latest Technology Let Pro 2H Products introduce you to a world of new product innovations that have enjoyed immediate commercial success. Pro 2H proudly introduces SKINWEAR - a high performance, botanical skincare line that blends the hottest ingredients with the latest technology. These are products that address the needs of today's cosmetic buyer by providing product choices to help counteract the effects of sun damage, aging, pollution, wind, severe temperatures and much, much, more. ENVIRONMENTALLY RESPONSIBLE In today's rapidly changing world, we are confronted with the challenge of balancing creativity and environmental responsibility. Pro 2H Product's environmental stance has sparked the development of product innovations that will help meet tomorrow's environmental goals head on. Use of recyclable containers, natural ingredients and the continuing committment by our staff never to test on animals are just a few of the environmentallysound programs we are committed to. We are known throughout the industry for our integrity, reliability and product superiority. We deliver products and services that meet the changing needs of our customers, that is what gives us a distinct advantage over our competitors. Now more than ever, we've got what it takes to help achieve beautiful, radiant, younger-looking skin. INTRODUCING........Pro ALPHA H2 Pro ALPHA H2 is a scientific breakthrough formula containing a combination of ALPHA HYDROXY Fruit Acids including Glycolic Acid-derived from apples,sugar cane and citrus. Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with Alpha Hydroxy Acids. This natural fruit acid complex works with your skin's natural renewal processes to help achieve healthier, younger looking skin. COMMON USES: * Sun Damaged Skin * Age Spots * Uneven Pigmentation * Blemishes * Premature Aging * Wrinkles * Rough Dry Patches * Smooth Fine Lines THE BEAUTY OF ALPHA H2 *This natural fruit acid complex works with your natural process to help achieve healthier, younger-looking skin. *Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with Alpha Hydroxy *Helps increase skin's own ability to absorb and retain moisture. *Promotes natural exfoliation by removing dry, lifeless cells from skin's outer layer. *Helps protect new healthy skin cells against free radical and damaging environmental effects. *Retexturize - increaing clarity, firmness, elasticity and evenness in skin tone. *Leaves skin feeling clean, freah, and healthy. *Absorbs quickley with no greasy residue. INTRODUCING PRO BEMA 2H Pro BEMA2H is a new blend of natural botanical ingredients and contains the world's most effective Aloe Vera extract. TREATS: * Acne * Abrasions * Athlete's Foot * Allergic Rash * Burns * Bed Sores * Bee Stings * Bruises * Blisters * Boils * Chapped Skin * Chapped Lips * Cradle Cap * Chemical Peel * Diaper Rash * Dermabrassion* Dermatitis * Dry Skin * Eczema * Flea Bites * Fungus * Fever Blisters * Hives * Insect Bites * Itching * Impetigo * Jock Itch * Keratosis * Lupus * Psoriasis * Poison Ivy * Poison Oak * Razor Burns * Rashes * Radiation * Rosacea * Shingles * Burns * Stretch Marks * Sunburn * Wind Burns * Very Dry Skin * Stops itching caused by poison oak, poison ivy, insect bites and rashes. * Instantly stops pain from cuts, scrapes, burns and sunburn, without peeling. * Heals athlete's foot and other fungus. * 16 Hour moisturizer. * Excellent skin softener, it protects against environmental pollutants. * Helps guard against the effects of exposure to sun and wind. * Great for baby's skin for rashes, dry patches. REVOLUTIONARY NEW FORMULA Aloe Vera Skin Healing Creme Never before has there been a more complete combination of ingredients along with a 16 hour moisturizer as in ProBema 2H without the use of dyes, water, mineral oil, cortisone creams, steroids, animal by-products and absolutely no animal testing. The Aloe Vera used in ProBema 2H is Barbadensis Millers Aloe from the island of Barbados. This is the strongest and most effective aloe vera in the world. NEW! NEW! NEW! ProGel AH2 BIOBATH and SHOWER GEL Alpha Hydroxy Skin Softeneing Complex and Vitamin Beads an ultra mild body treatment that cleanses and moisturizes without the drying effects of soap. Enhanced with Aloe Vera Gel and Panthenol to add moisture. Golden beads of vitamins A and E to condition and help increase skin's elasticity and suppleness. Enhanced with invigorating, aromathreapy botanicals and Alpha Hydroxy Complex to leave your body silky, refreshed, and revitalized. ph balanced. * Soap-free, non-drying formula * Contains Alpha Hydroxy-based skin softeneing complex * Refreshing aromatic fragrance KEY INGREDIENTS: Vitamin A and E Beads, Alpha Hydroxy based skin softening complex, Panthenol, Aloe Vera Gel, Aromatherapy Botanical Extracts of Peach, Passion Fruit, Apricot and Mango. METHOD OF USE: In the Shower: Lather on moist skin, or apply to damp wash cloth, sponge or loofah, massage and rinse. For the Bath: Pour under warm running water for a luxurious, scented bubble bath. 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! IF FOR ANY REASON YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH OUR PRODUCTS, RETURN THE UNUSED PORTION WITHIN 30 DAYS AND WE WILL GLADLY REFUND YOUR MONEY. 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Yes, that's definitely better for high-confidence long-term archival stuff than relying on one cipher. Carl Ellison's suggestion was DES | tran | nDES | tran | DES, where "tran" is an unkeyed large-block transposition. One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't hurt to repeat it): if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA | 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to use separate keys for each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will give the key to the whole lot. BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current Preferred URL? Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:22 12.19.4.15.18, 9 Edznab 16 Muan, Third Lord of Night From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 29 10:51:26 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:51:26 +0800 Subject: Persistent URLs Considered Useful In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: At 9:47 AM -0800 1/29/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's >reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all >dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current >Preferred URL? I have no idea. Sometimes I find a site has it, sometimes not. (I'm not interested in keeping my tens of megs of postings on a Web page. Sosumi.) The issue of "URL decay" is a very serious one, affecting directly the use of the Web for footnote citations, legal citations, references, etc. Scientific or academic articles cannot reliably cite URLs, as they are likely to decay or vanish or become corrupted over a matter of months, let alone the years or decades that a technical or academic paper is expected to last and be read. Call it an archivist's nightmare. A couple of years ago I floated an idea out to a handful of Bay Area friends and Cypherpunks, about an idea for an "Eternity.com" service which would act as a kind of "vanity press" for authors, professors, researchers, etc., who wanted to know that a document and URL would have a long persistence, possibly an indefinite persistence. (At the time I used the "Eternity" name I was not consciously aware of Ross Anderson's work on his "Eternity" system, though I may have inadvertently been inspired by his name, which I may have heard on the list or elsewhere. My notion was a bit different from either his Eternity system or any of the recent variants, but the name was based on the same idea of perpetual storage. However, unlike my BlackNet idea, this particular "Eternity" was not focussed on contraband, illegal, controversial, or black market information being distributed and preserved. In fact, the expected customers were mundane academics and corporate users...or vanity users...anyone, basically, who wanted to know that a paper or document of theirs could be reliably cited by others and that the citations would not exhibit the "URL decay" so commonly seen today.) Like I said, I sent this to a handful of Bay Area friends and Cypherpunks, mainly to see if they had any comments or interest. I chose at that time not to send my idea out to the Cypherpunks list, as I had some thoughts about maybe trying to commercialize the idea.... However, I haven't, so I may as well send this idea along. Here is the piece I sent out in late '95: Return-Path: tcmay at got.net Received: from [205.199.118.202] (tcmay.got.net [205.199.118.202]) by you.got.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA05317 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:30:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:30:25 -0800 X-Sender: tcmay at mail.got.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tcmay at got.net From: tcmay at got.net (Timothy C. May) Subject: Eternity.com announces "Eternal URLs"--version 1.02 X-UIDL: 820276233.000 ***Press Release*** Santa Cruz, CA. Eternity, Inc. is pleased to announce the availability of its permanent Uniform Resource Locater (URL) facility. For a fee, Eternity will store a file for a year, for several years, or for "eternity." Eternity will ensure that backups are escrowed in the event of interruptions at Eternity or even the demise of Eternity as an entity. Visit us at http://www.eternity.com/~products/ ***End*** Well, not really. But an example makes a point succinctly. There's a growing need for "eternal URLs," URLs that have enough persistence to last for a very long time, possibly for several decades. (And with declining storage costs, "several years" implies "eternity" only costs 10% more.) Here are some reasons: * Today's URLs are transient, fluid. Accounts go away and the URL no longer works, e.g., the large number of "Can't access" errors when Web surfing. (Many of these errors are because a server or account has been deliberately been taken down, for whatever reasons. Often because of overloading, which is a separable issue from the issue of permanence--overloading can be handled with access fees, for example.) * Web citations. Michael Froomkin, and others, have been raising the issue of using the Web for legal citations. A real problem if the citations don't persist for very long. (And I started seriously thinking about this Web transience issue when I wrote a reply to him pointing out the utter transience of most URLs, the "decay time" of valid URLs and how tough it would be to rely on the Web for citations which are intended to be valid for years or even decades.) * Many links have a "single-point failure" built in. Let me give an example: - my Cyphernomicon exists in an HTML version (nicely done by J. Rochkind) at the URL "http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/". - lots of other Web pages have links to this URL. In fact, nearly every page that mentions the Cyphernomicon points to this URL! - so, what happens when Jonathan's account--at Oberlin I presume--goes away? What happens when he gets tired of maintaining it, or graduates, or whatever? - answer: all the pages that point to it now come up only with the typical errors. - it's unlikely that all or even most of the pages with pointers to this now-gone URL will update them. I call this "Web decay." Thus, we see the increasing breakage of links. (I don't know about you folks, but in my Web surfing I find more and more links broken every day....) A market fix might be the following: - a site operator offers "archival" storage, perhaps/probably for a fee - files could be placed in this archival storage for some fee for a given amount of time. (Given the declining cost of storage, a user might be able to economically buy "permanent" storage, sort of a "discounted future value" approach. Thus, I might pay $20 to store the Cyphernomicon for a year, $30 for 3 years, and $50 for "eternity." - he may also charge digital cash for access (a separable issue, but worth mentioning) - example URL: "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/" - the site, "eternity.com" in this example, would ensure that the document remains mounted and available for years, decades, etc. This could be done by using backup machines, copies of optical disks at services which agree (for a fee) to keep backups and mount them in the event of disruption/bankruptcy/etc. of "eternity.com," and so on. (Obviously a fee structure could include issues of file size, latency of access, policies for public hits on the site, etc.) - services like this (and I expect more to appear) may have cross-backup provisions, or arrangements to take over the good name and good will, and of course the files, of services which vanish or go bankrupt. (All sorts of messy details, but familiar to lawyers handling escrow matters.) - there are obvious similarities with "archival storage" services (the "data vaults" and salt mine companies). In this case, the archival storage also has access via the Web attached. (And yes, an obvious wrinkle is to sell archival storage per se, with access a separate issue: access could be via passwords/crypto, or via paid access, URLs, etc. All separable. But the "market focus" on "eternal URLs" is a powerful focus, likely to quickly generate a fair amount of business.) (Strategies for site-mirroring of URLs, where the same URL actually involves multiple sites, is another approach. I'm not following that area too closely, so I won't discuss it here. It may be a workable alternative.) Another alternative is for services to arise which act as redirectors of Web accesses. Without actually storing the Cyphernomicon file, for example, they tell users where it actually is. (Not that much different from Infoseek, DejaNews, Alta Vista, etc., except that those services merely index existing pages, which may have huge numbers of corrupt links, while the service I am proposing would take active steps to ensure valid copies can be accessed...probably too much work to be economical, which is why I prefer the "Eternity.com" model: the owner of a URL, or an interested party who wishes to pay to store a copy, takes active steps to ensure a permanent copy exists. There are all sorts of wrinkles of this idea, such as: -- newer versions of a file, e.g., the "Cyphernomicon v.1.5," are either stored separately, with pointers added to the first file, or are appended. I favor the "pure archive" approach of always having the earlier versions stored. ("Once stored, it is never forgotten.") For example: "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/0.666" (the original) "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/1.5" "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/2.0" ...etc.... -- obviously files could be stored in various ways, depending on fees per storage and fees per access. Older versions might be archived on DAT (or its 2005 equivalent), more recent versions might be on DVDs, CD-ROMs, etc., and heavily-accessed files might be on magnetic disk. All a matter of pricing, usage, market issues. -- jukeboxes of CD-ROMs, DATs, and DVDs should make storage of "archived Web sites" very cheap. -- such a service could also be a protection against political pressure: once a file is stored, perhaps in multiple national jurisdicitions, or perhaps even in unknown jurisdictions via Web mixes, the file could not be removed. -- digital timestamps and other hashes of the database could be published, a la Haber and Stornetta's Surety service, to ensure that that the database had not been tampered with. -- secure data havens, such as Swiss banks (maybe not so secure, but you get the point) could store copies of the files, perhaps on very slow media. Enough to ensure eternal storage. Underground vaults, salt mines, the usual shtick. I'll close for now. Could "Eternity.com" be the new Westlaw? (For you nonlawyers, Westlaw publishes books of court cases and rulings, and is the de facto place for references...they make a tidy profit by licensing their system. Cyberspace legal thinkers are looking at Web alternatives.) Food for thought (and grounds for further research, as Dave Emory would say). --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 29 12:16:56 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:16:56 +0800 Subject: Finding the Cyphernomicon In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980129120914.007c5530@popd.ix.netcom.com> >BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's >reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all >dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current >Preferred URL? First hit I got at hotbot was the standard one http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ and it seems to work fine. Also http://yak.net/CYPHERNOMICON.gz works. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From kes21 at chat.ru Thu Jan 29 12:22:42 1998 From: kes21 at chat.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=E5=ED_=F0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:22:42 +0800 Subject: hackers and minick Message-ID: <199801292004.XAA16433@chat.ru> Hello there!!! I send this letter because i want to know anything about hackers Kevin Mitnick please send more information about these topics my E-mail kes21 at chat.ru From SteffenHo at aol.com Thu Jan 29 13:04:27 1998 From: SteffenHo at aol.com (SteffenHo at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:04:27 +0800 Subject: hackers and minick Message-ID: <685d8d88.34d0eafa@aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-29 15:44:07 EST, kes21 at chat.ru writes: << Hello there!!! I send this letter because i want to know anything about hackers Kevin Mitnick please send more information about these topics my E-mail kes21 at chat.ru >> www.mitnick.com or www.kevinmitnick.com From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 29 13:08:03 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:08:03 +0800 Subject: Senate probes Microsoft [CNN] Message-ID: <199801292105.PAA14122@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > By SCOTT SONNER > Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Microsoft, already in trouble with the > JusticeDepartment for alleged antitrust violations, also is the target > ofa Senate Judiciary Committee investigation, a Senate aide saidtoday. > > "They are definitely investigating Microsoft," said TonyWilliams, > chief of staff to Sen. Slade Gorton, R-Wash. "They aremeeting with > Microsoft. They are talking with them about antitrustmatters." > > Microsoft had no immediate comment today but Williams said > thecommittee has asked Microsoft to voluntary turn over > documentsregarding its business practices. > > The committee for some time has been reviewing the activities > ofMicrosoft and other companies in regard to how antitrust laws > applyto the Internet. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jleonard at divcom.umop-ap.com Thu Jan 29 13:44:28 1998 From: jleonard at divcom.umop-ap.com (Jon Leonard) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:44:28 +0800 Subject: Persistent URLs Considered Useful In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: <19980129133545.11646@divcom.umop-ap.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 1998 at 10:44:19AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > At 9:47 AM -0800 1/29/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: > > >BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's > >reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all > >dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current > >Preferred URL? > > I have no idea. Sometimes I find a site has it, sometimes not. (I'm not > interested in keeping my tens of megs of postings on a Web page. Sosumi.) I've copied the HTML'd version at http://www.slimy.com/crypto/cyphernomicon/. Barring catastrope, it'll stay there until the singularity. > The issue of "URL decay" is a very serious one, affecting directly the use > of the Web for footnote citations, legal citations, references, etc. > Scientific or academic articles cannot reliably cite URLs, as they are > likely to decay or vanish or become corrupted over a matter of months, let > alone the years or decades that a technical or academic paper is expected > to last and be read. Call it an archivist's nightmare. [skip to discussion of a market solution] > A market fix might be the following: > > - a site operator offers "archival" storage, perhaps/probably for a fee > > - files could be placed in this archival storage for some fee for a given > amount of time. (Given the declining cost of storage, a user might be able > to economically buy "permanent" storage, sort of a "discounted future > value" approach. Thus, I might pay $20 to store the Cyphernomicon for a > year, $30 for 3 years, and $50 for "eternity." > > - he may also charge digital cash for access (a separable issue, but worth > mentioning) Another model would be advertising supported. In this model, a business collects important documents, sources, and so on, and makes them generally available. A search engine at the site home helps index it, and provides banner advertisements as well. The advertisement supported model works for the search engines, and this would have the advantage of avoiding both broken links and useless drivel. Free access and free submission may be necessary to get both enough documents and users to be profitable. [snip] > --Tim May Jon Leonard From MTL_HUB at mbi.mercantile.com Fri Jan 30 06:02:00 1998 From: MTL_HUB at mbi.mercantile.com (MTL_HUB at mbi.mercantile.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:02:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: ALERT: Message from kes21 was truncated; File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus Message-ID: <8625659C.004D8672.00@mbi.mercantile.com> Please refer to the GroupShield Quarantine Area for more details. INCIDENT --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Scan Time: 01/30/98 08:06:45 AM Detection: File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus Disposition: Note has been truncated Quarantined: (Document link not converted) CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL!!d:\notes\data\QAREA.NSF Version: GroupShield 3.14 (Build 184) MESSAGE --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Message ID: 004D7F4F Sender: kes21 at chat.ru Subject: Re: Programming Recipients: CN=Taru Goel/OU=STL/O=MTL Routing: CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL SYNOPSIS --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL) RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL) FILE ATTACHMENT 'att1.com' << BW.556 >> File size: 559 bytes Host type: MSDOS Compression: OFF Attributes: PUBLIC READ-WRITE File flags: 0 Created: 01/30/98 08:06:29 AM Modified: 01/30/98 08:06:29 AM Status: Removed Scanner: McAfee Scan DLL (version 3030) found BW.556 From MTL_HUB at mbi.mercantile.com Fri Jan 30 06:38:50 1998 From: MTL_HUB at mbi.mercantile.com (MTL_HUB at mbi.mercantile.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:38:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: ALERT: Message from kes21 was truncated; File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus Message-ID: <8625659C.0050FC3C.00@mbi.mercantile.com> Please refer to the GroupShield Quarantine Area for more details. INCIDENT --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Scan Time: 01/30/98 08:44:33 AM Detection: File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus Disposition: Note has been truncated Quarantined: (Document link not converted) CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL!!d:\notes\data\QAREA.NSF Version: GroupShield 3.14 (Build 184) MESSAGE --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Message ID: 0050F98C Sender: kes21 at chat.ru Subject: Re: Programming Recipients: CN=Taru Goel/OU=STL/O=MTL Routing: CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL SYNOPSIS --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL) RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL) FILE ATTACHMENT 'att1.com' << BW.556 >> File size: 559 bytes Host type: MSDOS Compression: OFF Attributes: PUBLIC READ-WRITE File flags: 0 Created: 01/30/98 08:44:28 AM Modified: 01/30/98 08:44:28 AM Status: Removed Scanner: McAfee Scan DLL (version 3030) found BW.556 From declan at well.com Thu Jan 29 15:40:08 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:40:08 +0800 Subject: FBI tells Congress encryption "is a critical problem" Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:46:48 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FBI tells Congress encryption "is a critical problem" ******** The nation's top cops aren't happy about Americans using data-scrambling software to shield their correspondence from prying eyes. Today the deputy director of the FBI told the Senate Intelligence committee that encryption "is a critical problem" that Congress needs to solve -- presumably by banning email and other programs that his G-men can't crack. (http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1385,00.html). Bob Bryant warned the committee that "the widespread use of robust non-key recovery encryption will ultimately devastate our ability to fight crime and prevent terrorism." Which is precisely what Sen. Bob Kerrey (D-Neb) claims he's concerned about. He said "if we want to make the American people continue to feel safe," the National Security Agency and the FBI "have to be able to somehow deal with not just the complexity of signals, but increasingly encrypted signals that are impossible for us to break." Not surprisingly, the question of why the FBI and NSA should have the ability to listen in on any conversation was left unasked. --By Declan McCullagh/Washington (declan at well.com) From declan at well.com Thu Jan 29 16:01:46 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:01:46 +0800 Subject: SF Chron article on Feinstein and Internet Message-ID: A reporter (jswartz at sfgate.com) is writing an article about Dianne Feinstein and her puzzling stance on high tech issues, given the state she represents. She's taken very odd positions on encryption, Net-gambling, privacy regulations that put burdens on business, and of course her bomb-making ban. If you have Feinstein stories or opinions, I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. -Declan From anon at anon.efga.org Thu Jan 29 17:15:08 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:15:08 +0800 Subject: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: <199801152323.SAA14920@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: Information Security (if that is his real name) writes: > vznuri at netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) You mean, Vlad is Larry Detweiler and Dmitri Vulis in the same time? Hmmm ... From donotreply at 00759.com Fri Jan 30 09:22:55 1998 From: donotreply at 00759.com (Freakazoid - The Evning Hacker) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:22:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: FUA - GRAND OPENING Message-ID: <199801301722.JAA02423@toad.com> Dear Undergrounders, Hackers, Crackers or what ever you are! I have now disigded the opening date for Freakazoid`s Underground ARchive It will open 1998-02-03 - The 2nd of Mars. It will contain material that is high rated on the goverments hate list`s. So why dont come visit os and check it out. Now you can read about the development on the site. So come visit us. http://freakazoid.simplenet.com -- -- -- -- END OF FREAKAZOID TRANSMITION -- -- -- -- From ulf at fitug.de Thu Jan 29 17:38:46 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:38:46 +0800 Subject: patent office and key recovery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980129053039.00798ae0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: > "The agency wants to include a "key recovery" system in the > software in case the encryption has to be broken." > >The mind boggles. The Patent Office is obliged to submit all patent applications to the spooks for review (as patent attorney Axel Horns pointed out on another list). So there is little "need" for "recovery" even from the government point of view, other than getting people to use key escrow. From asgaard at cor.sos.sll.se Thu Jan 29 18:26:03 1998 From: asgaard at cor.sos.sll.se (Asgaard) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:26:03 +0800 Subject: Persistent URLs Considered Useful In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Librarians have been busy in this area. Electronic journals will soon (well, it will take a few years...) become the prefered method for scientific publishing. Pre-publishing, peer-review, certification, post-certification addenda (and sometimes even revocation, if cheating has been proven). Similar methods have been used in the technical development of the Internet for decades but now other fields are catching on. An example of public peer-review techniques http://www.mja.com.au/review/oprtprot.html A functioning and respected scientific e-journal http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/bbs/ The Linkoping University Electronic Press http://www.ep.liu.se/ and more specifically http://www.ida.liu.se/ext/cgi-bin/epa/protect.html describes PGP-signing the MD5 hashes of articles. They will guarantee their on-line survival for 25 years. Also, paper copies are stored in the deep archives of several Swedish University libraries. I guess they don't guarantee that the URL will stay the same for 25 years, but why not. Asgaard From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 29 18:42:55 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:42:55 +0800 Subject: Govt. to overhaul domain names [CNN] Message-ID: <199801300240.UAA15427@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > GOVERNMENT TO UNVEIL PLAN TO OVERHAUL INTERNET DOMAIN NAMES > > graphic January 29, 1998 > Web posted at: 6:53 p.m. EDT (1853 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Clinton administration's eagerly awaited > proposal for overhauling the Internet's naming system and phasing > out U.S. government involvement will be released Friday, the > Commerce Department said Thursday. > > The department's National Telecommunications and Information > Administration unit said it will post the plan on the World Wide Web > at http://www.ntia.doc.gov. > > The plan, originally expected in November, seeks to resolve the > controversy over management of some of the Internet's most basic > functions, including the assignment and registration of names for > Web sites. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 29 18:43:19 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:43:19 +0800 Subject: Michigan upset - children fingerprinted w/o permission [CNN] Message-ID: <199801300241.UAA15465@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > > CHILDREN'S FINGERPRINTING RILES MICHIGAN PARENTS > > fingerprint graphic January 29, 1998 > Web posted at: 3:51 p.m. EST (2051 GMT) > > DETROIT (AP) -- Parents and legal experts have identified a problem > with Michigan standardized testing -- 122,000 fifth-graders provided > their fingerprints without permission. > > The public-school children had to fill out a "Fingerprint > Investigation Journal" as part of the science segment on the > Michigan Educational Assessment Program. > > "It's offensive," said Andrea Lang of St. Clair Shores, who learned > that her 10-year-old daughter provided fingerprints for the test > last week. "It's an invasion of privacy. Only criminals get their > fingerprints taken." > > The fingerprint journal was merely a hands-on experiment designed to > make the science portion of the test more interesting, Peter Bunton > of the MEAP office, said Wednesday. > > State law says that with few exceptions, children's fingerprints > can't be obtained without parents' permission. Bunton said he was > unaware of the law. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jan 29 20:10:33 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:10:33 +0800 Subject: References to FTL tunneling experiment In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801300400.FAA17487@basement.replay.com> Phelix wrote: > I remember seeing on one of those science specials on The learning channel > (or mabye the Discovery channel) that a professor did figure out > (accidentally) how to send information faster than light. The only thing I > remember about it was the the signal was some kind of music. http://i02aix1.desy.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw75.html http://www.uni-koeln.de/~abb11/ http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.fringeware.com/msg/1996/msg00155.html From anon at anon.efga.org Thu Jan 29 21:10:00 1998 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:10:00 +0800 Subject: The source code of corrected RC2 Message-ID: <0fe5fadc61be81f09e058b9e6ca24c07@anon.efga.org> There was a mistake in the source code of RC2 that I did a mailbox on January 21 '1998. The following is the source code of corrected RC2. RC2 C++ source code #include #include void RC2Keyschedule::schedule( unsigned short K[64], const unsigned char L[128], unsigned T8, unsigned TM ) { unsigned char x; unsigned i; static const unsigned char PITABLE[256] = { 217,120,249,196, 25,221,181,237, 40,233,253,121, 74,160,216,157, 198,126, 55,131, 43,118, 83,142, 98, 76,100,136, 68,139,251,162, 23,154, 89,245,135,179, 79, 19, 97, 69,109,141, 9,129,125, 50, 189,143, 64,235,134,183,123, 11,240,149, 33, 34, 92,107, 78,130, 84,214,101,147,206, 96,178, 28,115, 86,192, 20,167,140,241,220, 18,117,202, 31, 59,190,228,209, 66, 61,212, 48,163, 60,182, 38, 111,191, 14,218, 70,105, 7, 87, 39,242, 29,155,188,148, 67, 3, 248, 17,199,246,144,239, 62,231, 6,195,213, 47,200,102, 30,215, 8,232,234,222,128, 82,238,247,132,170,114,172, 53, 77,106, 42, 150, 26,210,113, 90, 21, 73,116, 75,159,208, 94, 4, 24,164,236, 194,224, 65,110, 15, 81,203,204, 36,145,175, 80,161,244,112, 57, 153,124, 58,133, 35,184,180,122,252, 2, 54, 91, 37, 85,151, 49, 45, 93,250,152,227,138,146,174, 5,223, 41, 16,103,108,186,201, 211, 0,230,207,225,158,168, 44, 99, 22, 1, 63, 88,226,137,169, 13, 56, 52, 27,171, 51,255,176,187, 72, 12, 95,185,177,205, 46, 197,243,219, 71,229,165,156,119, 10,166, 32,104,254,127,193,173 }; assert(len > 0 && len <= 128); assert(bits <= 1024); if (!bits) bits = 1024; memcpy(xkey, key, len); for (i = 0; i < 128; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; } T8 = (T1+7) >> 3; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for (i = 0; i < 127-T8; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; }; i = 63; K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]; }; void RC2Encryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i+0]; R0 = R0 << 1; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i+1]; R1 = R1 << 2; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i+2]; R2 = R2 << 3; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i+3]; R3 = R3 << 5; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R0 += K[R3 & 63]; R1 += K[R0 & 63]; R2 += K[R1 & 63]; R3 += K[R2 & 63]; } } void RC2Decryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R3 = R3 << 5; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i-3]; R2 = R2 << 3; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i-2]; R1 = R1 << 2; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i-1]; R0 = R0 << 1; R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i-0]; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R3 -= K[R2 & 63]; R2 -= K[R1 & 63]; R1 -= K[R0 & 63]; R0 -= K[R3 & 63]; } } From Voyeur at generalmedia.com Fri Jan 30 00:01:15 1998 From: Voyeur at generalmedia.com (Voyeur at generalmedia.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:01:15 +0800 Subject: Penthouse Virtual Voyeur Message-ID: <199801300753.CAA19517@host3.generalmedia.com> Thank you! 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See Them Now FREE FREE FREE ... http://www.penthousemag.com/sex/ Terri Peake Amy Lynn Baxter Alexus Winston Hyapatia Lee Justine Delahunty Gina LaMarca Danielle Daneux Levena Holmes Stacy Moran Christy Canyon Dancing With Wolf Alexis Christian Mirror Image - The Outtakes Paige Summers - 1998 Pet of the Year Star Whores - The Outtakes Eva Major - The Outtakes Eva Major - Fan Gallery PENTHOUSE KEEPS IT COMING STRONG FOR YOU ... NOW TRY IT FREE at http://www.penthousemag.com/sex/ From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 30 00:45:25 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:45:25 +0800 Subject: Kooks and their Kookies In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980128133516.009da320@labg30> Message-ID: > I have used Eric's Cookie Jar proxy to filter out cookies (it's located at > http://www.lne.com/ericm/cookie_jar/ ) and modified it to replace > advertisement images with a small jpeg image of a tin of spam. (Cookie > Jar's behavior is to simply close the connection which results in a > "broken" icon in my browser. The user is unable to discern the difference > between a broken picture vs. a piece of intentionally ignored spam.) I did > it by returning the spam can instead of an advertising banner when > requested, but I probably could have accomplished the same thing by > modifying the incoming HTML to have an IMG SRC of Junkbuster, which I've been playing with, too has just a list of URL patterns that are blocked. When it encounters such an URL, it displays this hardcoded spiel: char CBLOCK[] = "HTTP/1.0 202 Request for blocked URL\n" "Pragma: no-cache\n" "Last-Modified: Thu Jul 31, 1997 07:42:22 pm GMT\n" "Expires: Thu Jul 31, 1997 07:42:22 pm GMT\n" "Content-Type: text/html\n\n" "\n" "\n" "Internet Junkbuster: Request for blocked URL\n" "\n" WHITEBG "

" "" BANNER "" "
" "\n" "\n" ; Notice something unpleasant!!! See the 2 %s's? They are filled with 1) the URL you tried to access, 2) the pattern from the blockfile that matched. But they're not just displayed in your browser; only if you click on the junkbuster logo, they are passed to a cgi script at the junkbusters site, which displays them and possibly logs them. Not nice at all. I'd much prefer a filtering proxy that allowed different actions for different patterns in the block file: at the very least, the choices should be "404 not found", "403 verbotten", a 1x1 jpg, and a user-specified replacement text/url. > http://localhost/spam.jpg. I was really trying to write code to eliminate > the entire spam anchor, but found that identifying the matching start and > end of the spam anchor (in PERL) was more work than it was worth, and was > breaking some HTML. The ability to edit the incoming text and pictures to delete embedded ads would be awfully nice. Consider for example the html dynamically generated by wired's cgi script when you access http://stocks.hotbox.com. (take a look at it). Wouldn't it be nice if the proxy could be told to delete or replace all the text between and ??? Occasionally an ad is embedded in a picture together with some useful information. Take a look at http://www.bloomberg.com/gifs/iview.gif. it has both useful information that should be displayed and sponsor informaion that should be mercilessly censored - replaced by a user-specified graphic or at least a black rectangle. > Anyway, yes, keep posting your lists of evil URLs. I have no moral problem > with trashing those unwanted ads. Instead of spamming the mailing list, I've put up a web page at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6354 (let's see if they pull the plug on it) > >Would there be any interest if I put an anootated netscape cookie file > >(cypherpunks cookie potluck) someplace like geocitie.com? I have also placed some cookies for sharing on them same web site. > >Also a composite blockfile for junkbusters and other filtering proxies. > > > >A really neat feature for ad-filtering proxies would be to be able to > >place a specified picture (or at least a black rectangle) over a jpg or > >gif file being received from a URL that matches a specified pattern. > >I'm not sufficiently handy with graphics file formats to tell how easy > >this would be. Death to the Usenet Cabal! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From mb-347 at lyte.net Fri Jan 30 18:15:04 1998 From: mb-347 at lyte.net (mb-347 at lyte.net) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:15:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Multiply Your Traffic In 5 Minutes! Message-ID: <199801310159.UAA04701@mail.aolter.net> Tired of top lists? Here's an innovative new way for adult webmasters to MULTIPLY their traffic! http://www.gatkin.com/easyhits.html From fuahuolee91 at prodigy.com Fri Jan 30 19:01:05 1998 From: fuahuolee91 at prodigy.com (fuahuolee91 at prodigy.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:01:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Washing your clothes is hazardous to the Earth! Message-ID: <199801302096OAA2432@post.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
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TO BE REMOVED TYPE REMOVE IN SUBJECT AND REPLY TO sowell at bizzy.net From guy at panix.com Fri Jan 30 04:24:05 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:24:05 +0800 Subject: Chris Lewis's death? Message-ID: <199801301214.HAA08770@panix2.panix.com> > From cypherpunks-errors at toad.com Thu Jan 29 20:29:21 1998 > > Information Security (if that is his real name) writes: > > > vznuri at netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) > > You mean, Vlad is Larry Detweiler and Dmitri Vulis in the same time? > Hmmm ... The above message was sent by Dr. Dim. (He has a natural aversion to spelling his own name correctly when pretending to post as not Dr. Dim.) And, yes, 'vznuri at netcom.com' is a nym for Dr. Dim: just check out his posts at DejaNews...Dr. Dim is a math phud, and "Vladimir" was "plonked" by Dr. Dim immediately after I said it was a nym. ---guy Dr. Dim had an infamous alias "Vladimir Fomin" too. From guy at panix.com Fri Jan 30 04:33:55 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:33:55 +0800 Subject: tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code Message-ID: <199801301227.HAA09182@panix2.panix.com> # Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:06:22 -0500 # Message-ID: <7f7f70c39f30fd17d32c41b5bddb97b3 at anon.efga.org> # Subject: tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code # To: cypherpunks at toad.com # # tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code It sucked...there's an error. ---guy ;-) From action at psp.ink Fri Jan 30 20:45:28 1998 From: action at psp.ink (action at psp.ink) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:45:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Success Magazine - over 100 yrs. Message-ID: <> New! From ATA Publications: Now you can get in on the ground floor selling Success Magazine and Entrepreneur Magazine, two well known and well respected business publications. Now you can earn over $100,000 this year selling products that everybody wants. It will be so simple! Incredibly low investment, under $45!!! GET IN NOW!!! 4x7 Progressive Matrix pays over $100,000. NEW Jan.20,1998!!!! For more info call: 800-338-1349 From action at psp.ink Fri Jan 30 20:45:28 1998 From: action at psp.ink (action at psp.ink) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:45:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Success Magazine - over 100 yrs. Message-ID: <> New! From ATA Publications: Now you can get in on the ground floor selling Success Magazine and Entrepreneur Magazine, two well known and well respected business publications. Now you can earn over $100,000 this year selling products that everybody wants. It will be so simple! Incredibly low investment, under $45!!! GET IN NOW!!! 4x7 Progressive Matrix pays over $100,000. NEW Jan.20,1998!!!! For more info call: 800-338-1349 From kes21 at chat.ru Fri Jan 30 06:01:07 1998 From: kes21 at chat.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=E5=ED_=F0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:01:07 +0800 Subject: Programming Message-ID: <199801301344.QAA19746@chat.ru> Dear Cyberpunks !! I have just sent this letter and i do not what to do i would like to become a very good programmer and i don't know where i must start from so be so kind and send me any letters if you can about basics in programming with Assembler Good Bye!!! my email: kes21 at chat.ru -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00000.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 559 bytes Desc: "Test2 (���������� MS-DOS)" URL: From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 30 06:26:53 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:26:53 +0800 Subject: New Rules on Classified Info Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980130142212.0070b1e4@pop.pipeline.com> The Department of Defense has published today three interim final rules on protection of classified information (apparently issued confidentially months ago): 32 CFR Part 147, Personnel Security Policies for Granting Access to Classified Information 32 CFR Part 148, National Policy on Reciprocity of Facilities and Guidelines for Implementation of Reciprocity 32 CFR Part 149, National Policy on Technical Surveillance Countermeasures See at: http://jya.com/32cfr147.txt (56K) http://jya.com/32cfr148.txt (18K) http://jya.com/32cfr149.txt (7K) From agrapa at banamex.com Fri Jan 30 06:28:20 1998 From: agrapa at banamex.com (Arturo Grapa Ysunza) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:28:20 +0800 Subject: VIRUS WARNING: Message-ID: VIRUS WARNING: A message was received which contained a virus: From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=E5=ED_=F0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8?= Address: kes21 at chat.ru Date: Viernes 30 de Enero de 1998 Time: 1:03:32 AM Subject: Re: Programming This message contains 1 virus: Test2.com infected with the BW.556/1001/1272 virus This message was generated by ThunderBYTE Anti-Virus for MS Exchange http://www.thunderbyte.com/aboutmx.html From mike at aol.com Fri Jan 30 22:29:56 1998 From: mike at aol.com (mike at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:29:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: HERBAL ENERGIZER......SUPER FAT BURNER!!!! Message-ID: <199801304432EAA48264@post.eznet.it>

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************************************************** NOW IT'S YOUR TURN! Experience the incredible changes Thermo-Lift can make in YOUR life. Over 90% of our customers report feeling a change within 2 to 3 days! Even if it took YOU 2 to 3 weeks, wouldn�t it be worth it? With your order, you will receive a one month supply of 60 capsules. No diet is included because none is needed! Your small investment of only $29.95 plus $3.00 S&H will start you on the path to a NEW YOU� for about a dollar a day. Your satisfaction is 100% guaranteed or your purchase price (less S&H) will be cheerfully refunded upon return of the unused portion.

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***************************************************** TO ORDER THERMO-LIFT�: Complete the form below and mail it with your check or money order payable to: Merriman Mktg. Dept. M127 PO Box 121 Garfield, NM 87936

Questions about the product or about the status of your order? Call our message center at 505-267-1405 and leave your name, phone number (including area code), and the best time to reach you. Also available -- an alternative supplement for those who desire weight loss without the energizing effects of Thermo-Lift��Changes NOW!�. A revolutionary combination of fibers, enzymes, vitamins and minerals designed to attract and hold fats and remove them from the digestive tract.

------------------------------------------------ CUT HERE------------------------------------------------

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From SteffenHo at aol.com Fri Jan 30 06:36:57 1998 From: SteffenHo at aol.com (SteffenHo at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:36:57 +0800 Subject: hackers and minick Message-ID: In a message dated 98-01-29 15:44:07 EST, kes21 at chat.ru writes: >Hello there!!! I send this letter because i want to know anything about >hackers Kevin >Mitnick please send more information about these topics my E-mail >kes21 at chat.ru >www.mitnick.com or www.kevinmitnick.com hola, a hompage over his downfall "http://www.takedown.com" and you can always read the book. "The Smaurai and the Cyberthief" From mail at vipul.net Fri Jan 30 06:48:42 1998 From: mail at vipul.net (Vipul Ved Prakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:48:42 +0800 Subject: EU considers letting police snoop on Internet [fwd infobeat] Message-ID: <199801301956.TAA00281@fountainhead.net> *** EU considers letting police snoop on Internet European Union justice ministers agreed Thursday to consider letting police snoop on Internet users as a measure to tackle organized crime. Police, who fear the Internet is being used by international criminals for money laundering and other crimes, are currently barred from tapping into the computer messages. The ministers, gathered for an informal meeting in Birmingham, England, agreed police should be given new powers but added they should be tightly restricted so as not to damage the rapidly growing computer industry. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=11230876-266 -- #!/usr/bin/perl eval unpack u,'J)",](DIU Previus message include virus: C:\test2.com : virus BW-based detected. Do not run it. Have a nice day, Roman Rutman roman at softwinter.com seNTry 2020 - transparent disk encryption software - http://www.softwinter.com The information in this e-mail maybe confidential and may also be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advise contained in this e-mail are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing Soft Winter terms of business. From ghio at temp0201.myriad.ml.org Fri Jan 30 08:56:06 1998 From: ghio at temp0201.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:56:06 +0800 Subject: Chaining ciphers In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: <199801301645.LAA15149@myriad> Jim Gillogly wrote: > Yes, that's definitely better for high-confidence long-term archival > stuff than relying on one cipher. Carl Ellison's suggestion was DES | > tran | nDES | tran | DES, where "tran" is an unkeyed large-block > transposition. One other possibility is to encrypt with plaintext block chaining, then superencrypt it PBC in reverse order, starting with the last block first. An attacker would thus have to decrypt the entire message before knowing whether the key was correct or not. > One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't hurt to repeat it): > if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA | 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to > use separate keys for each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will > give the key to the whole lot. Only if the cryptanalyst knows that the decryption of the last one was correct, which shouldn't be possible without also decrypting all the other layers. From x at x.com Fri Jan 30 09:10:33 1998 From: x at x.com (x) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:10:33 +0800 Subject: stupid test (virus warning) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006adbdc@shell15.ba.best.com> .... you get an email from .ru address, with small .com file attached. .... you think: "I shall run it!" .... you flunk. DUUUUHHHH. Hey, Mr. Lame .ru: give it up. From jim at mentat.com Fri Jan 30 10:03:36 1998 From: jim at mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:03:36 +0800 Subject: Chaining ciphers Message-ID: <9801301752.AA17574@mentat.com> > Jim Gillogly skribis: > > One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't hurt to repeat it): > > if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA | 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to > > use separate keys for each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will > > give the key to the whole lot. > Matthew Ghio rispondis: > Only if the cryptanalyst knows that the decryption of the last one was > correct, which shouldn't be possible without also decrypting all the other > layers. If the person strapping those systems together writes them from scratch and the penultimate cipher gives a flat distribution, then I agree 100%. 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You assured everyone that you and your colleagues were on top of thesecurity angle and you've make great strides. So why are you still nervous? Because paranoia and vigilance are the heart and soul of corporate security. And, whether you're a CIO or a security analyst, whether you manage your organization's entire security strategy or a small piece of it, you know the threats. You know there are countless points of vulnerability. You know a breach at any one of those points could be crippling. You know "100% secure" is a myth. Unfortunately, they know too - the people lurking outside your firewall, the people tapping into your phone lines, the people diving into your dumpsters. They're patient. They're persistent. And they'll find a way in if you let your guard down. You know you can't eliminate vulnerability, but you can reduce it. The question is, how? Find the answers at this interactive two-day session where Cambridge Technology Partners will introduce you to the enemy, their methodologies, and the steps you can take to protect your enterprise. What IS IT? Cambridge Technology Partners is pleased to present the New Hack Tour, a two-day "get-smart" session where you can go head-to-head with leading security analysts, security practitioners, and yes, hackers. Together, you'll explore liability issues and organizational behaviors, learn underground tools of the hacker trade, and discuss attack strategies and detection/protection methodologies. WHO SHOULD ATTEND? Security touches everyone in your organization - from the ground floor of ITto the executive suite. Cambridge recognizes this. The New Hack Tour is uniquely designed for diverse audiences - from technical engineers and system architects to CIOs. In fact, the tour features two tracks, one for the people battling in the network trenches and one for the people who own overall security strategy and are battling to improve it. HOW DOES IT WORK? During the session, participants from across the corporate landscape will: * Day One: Address - in one of two tracks - the micro- or macro-level security issues that directly impact their organizations and their careers. * Day Two: Collaborate with hackers in one comprehensive track to build new and more effective models of corporate security. Day One AGENDA Track One * Setting the Scene * Why is Security Important? * Who are the Players (Hackers, Crackers, and Phone Phreaks)? * Is Security Futile? * What's at Stake? Addressing Liability * Case Study: Anatomy of an Internet Crime * Identify and Discuss Your Security Nightmares * Case Study: Anatomy of a Corporate Security Plan Day ONE AGENDA Track Two * Setting the Scene * Why is Security Important? * Who are the Players (Hackers, Crackers, and Phone Phreaks)? * Is Security Futile? * Identifying the Holes: A Primer on TCP/IP and O/S Internals * Underground Tools * Attack Strategies * Detection and Protection Day two AGENDA Tracks One & Two Meet the Enemy Panel Enemy Perspective: The State of Corporate Insecurity Point and Counterpoint: Participant Driven Q&A with the Enemy Panel Silicon-Based Security Solutions: Architectures, Technologies, and Tools Carbon-Based Security Solutions: Organizational Structures and Behaviors PROGRAM FEES & REGISTRATION Program fees are $995 covering registration, program materials, continental breakfasts, breaks, and lunches. For more information or to register, contact: Billy Brittingham Cambridge Technology Partners 304 Vassar Street Cambridge, MA 02139 617-374-8580 wbritt at ctp.com ABOUT CAMBRIDGE TECHNOLOGY PARTNERS Cambridge Technology Partners is an international management consulting and systems integration firm. Our unique approach has fundamentally reinvented the way business solutions are delivered. We combine strategic consulting, IT strategy, process innovation and implementation, custom and package software deployment, network services, and training to rapidly deliver end-to-end business systems that create immediate bottom-line impact for our clients. We do it fast. We do it for a fixed price. And we do it on time. TIMED AGENDA - HOUSTON Tuesday, March 3 9:00 - 9:15 Welcome & Introductory Remarks Mike Hunziker, Cambridge Technology Partners 9:15 - 10:30 Opening Level-Set * Why is Security Important? * Who are the players (i.e. hackers, crackers, phone phreaks)? * Is Security Futile? Yobie Benjamin, Cambridge Technology Partners 10:30 - 10:45 Break Track One 11:00 - 12:00 What's At Stake? Liability And Legal Issues Addressed James Asperger, Esq. and Christine C. Ewell, Esq., O'Melveny and Myers 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch 1:00 - 2:00 Case Study: Anatomy of an Internet Crime TBD Agent, F.B.I. 2:00 - 2:45 Case Study: Internet Security and the Banking Industry Anita Ward, Senior Vice President, TCB/Chase Manhattan 2:45 - 3:00 Break 3:00 - 3:45 Breakout Exercise - Top Ten Security Nightmares 3:45 - 4:15 Report Backs & Discussion 4:15 - 5:00 Case Study: VISA International Bobby Colquitt, Vice President, VISA International 5:00 Adjourn Track Two 10:45 - 12:15 Identifying the Holes: A Brief Primer on TCP/IP and O/S Internals Peter Shipley, Network Security Associates 12:15 - 1:15 Lunch 1:15 - 2:45 Underground Tools and the Attack Marc Fabro, Secure Computing 2:45 - 3:00 Break 3:00 - 5:00 Detection and Protection Bob Keyes, Cambridge Technology Partners Peter Shipley, Network Security Associates 5:00 Adjourn Wednesday, March 4 9:00 - 9:30 Meet the Enemy Panel Wyatt Earp, B$tring, Yobie Benjamin, Peter Shipley, Dr. Who 9:30 - 10:30 Enemy Perspectives: The State of Corporate [In]Security Wyatt Earp, B$tring, Dr. Who, Benjamin, Shipley 10:30 - 10:45 Break 10:45 - 12:00 Point & Counterpoint: Participant Driven Q&A With Enemy Panel Wyatt Earp, B$tring, Benjamin, Dr. Who, Shipley 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch 1:00 - 2:30 Silicon-Based Security Solutions: Architectures, Technologies & Tools - Marc Fabro, Secure Computing 2:30 - 2:45 Break 2:45 - 3:45 Carbon-Based Solutions: Organizational Behavior and Structure Phillip Parker, Former Director for Counter-Intelligence, FBI 3:45 - 4:15 Closing Thoughts Mike Hunziker, Cambridge Technology Partners From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 30 13:15:39 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:15:39 +0800 Subject: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: <199801152323.SAA14920@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <199801302059.VAA03267@basement.replay.com> Anonymous wrote: > > vznuri at netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) > > You mean, Vlad is Larry Detweiler and Dmitri Vulis in the same time? > Hmmm ... Vlad is Detweiler, but Vulis is a different kook. From mail at reba.com Fri Jan 30 13:47:14 1998 From: mail at reba.com (Mail) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:47:14 +0800 Subject: RebaNet Exclusive Message-ID: <19980130152058.0b149a6d.in@mail.marthastewart.com> For a limited time you can get a Reba T-shirt for only $10.00 ($16.00 value). For more information on this special offer, go to the following Internet address: http://www.reba.com/RebaNetExclusive Copyright 1998 Starstruck Entertainment, All rights reserved. From ghio at temp0203.myriad.ml.org Fri Jan 30 13:48:18 1998 From: ghio at temp0203.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:48:18 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801282322.RAA09923@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801302134.QAA24635@myriad> Jim Choate wrote: > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of > your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and > the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a > whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through > the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, > is broken. Assume that the mirrors completely surround the objects, and that the only light source is IR thermal radiation, and that the mirrors are insulated from the outsite world, so we can assume a closed system. By the laws of optics, one focus should get warmer than the other, but by the law of entropy they must remain at the same temperature. That's the paradox. From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 30 13:48:27 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:48:27 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) Message-ID: <199801302143.PAA18723@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:34:15 -0500 > From: ghio at temp0203.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of > > your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and > > the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a > > whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through > > the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, > > is broken. > > Assume that the mirrors completely surround the objects, and that the only > light source is IR thermal radiation, and that the mirrors are insulated > from the outsite world, so we can assume a closed system. > > By the laws of optics, one focus should get warmer than the other, but by > the law of entropy they must remain at the same temperature. That's the > paradox. No, the total energy of the *system* stays constant, not individual componants which are free to heat up or cool down as the energy in the system is moved around. The total entropy of the lenses, the cold foci, and the warm foci are what stays constant. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From emc at wire.insync.net Fri Jan 30 13:56:18 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:56:18 +0800 Subject: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba Message-ID: <199801302140.PAA13031@wire.insync.net> While the US Government tries to whip up public opinion for the mass murder of more Iraqis, filling the press with inflammatory statements, most of which are based on no new information, and the inability to prove negatives, newly declassified records demonstrate that such antics have been used by the government before. Should the US, claiming to represent "the will of the whole world," launch an unprovoked military strike against Iraq, based on some vague claim that Iraq has not had its industrial infrastructure disemboweled to the point where it will never again be able to perform even the simplest chemical or biological laboratory work, I would hope that all thinking non-sheep in this country would avail themselves of every covert opportunity to monkey-wrench the US War Machine. UN economic sanctions demanded by the US against Iraq have already directly resulted in the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis of all ages. ----- WASHINGTON (AP) -- America's military leaders signed off on a scheme in 1963 to provoke Fidel Castro into attacking the United States so that retaliating U.S. forces could squash him ``with speed, force and determination,'' newly declassified records show. The records were among 600 pages opened at the National Archives by a government agency, the Assassination Records Review Board, to help researchers into John F. Kennedy's Nov. 22, 1963, assassination explore the possibility of a Cuban connection and to ``put the assassination into its historical context.'' Some Cuban involvement has been theorized because of slain suspect Lee Harvey Oswald's association with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. ``These military records further demonstrate how high on the U.S. government's radar screen getting rid of the Castro government was in the early 1960s,'' said John R. Tunheim, a federal judge in Minnesota and the board's chairman. The documents showed that in February 1962 the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Deputy Defense Secretary Roswell Gilpatric approved a plan to ``lure or provoke Castro, or an uncontrollable subordinate, into an overt hostile reaction against the United States.'' The attack ``would in turn create the justification for the U.S. to not only retaliate but destroy Castro with speed, force and determination,'' the memo said. It was not clear where along the chain of command the plan eventually was squelched. But by the following year, another Pentagon policy paper discussed a new scheme to make it appear that Cuba had attacked a member of the Organization of American States so that the United States could retaliate. Five scenarios were spelled out, foreseeing either real or faked Cuban attacks on a U.S. ally. One of them: ``A contrived 'Cuban' attack on an OAS member could be set up, and the attacked state could be urged to take measures of self-defense and request assistance from the U.S. and OAS.'' The paper expressed confidence that ``the U.S. could almost certainly obtain the necessary two-thirds support among OAS members for collective action against Cuba.'' The planners got cold feet, the documents show. They feared leaks. ``Any of the contrived situations described above are inherently, extremely risky in our democratic system in which security can be maintained, after the fact, with very great difficulty,'' a memo said. ``If the decision should be made to set up a contrived situation, it should be one in which participation by U.S. personnel is limited only to the most high trusted covert personnel.'' The documents were the second set about Washington's preoccupation with getting rid of Castro to be made public by the board. Late last year, 1,500 pages showed that military planners had come up with a variety of dirty tricks intended to harass or humiliate Castro. One prescribed flooding Cuba with faked photos of an overweight Castro ``with two beauties'' and ``a table brimming over with the most delectable Cuban food'' to make the point that Castro's lifestyle was richer than that of most Cubans. In the new set of papers, one prepared by the Defense Department's Caribbean Survey Group and dated Feb. 19, 1962, wanted to make Castro so fearful of an imminent U.S. attack that he would call up the Cuban militia. The purpose was ``a complete disruption of the available labor force'' for the 1962 sugar cane harvest. Another, a psychological warfare proposal dated Feb. 12, 1963, proposed the creation of an imaginary Cuban resistance leader. The paper called him ``our Cuban Kilroy.'' ``After a period of time, all unexplained incidents and actions for which credit has not been seized by some other exile group would automatically be ascribed to our imaginary friend,'' the paper said. ``At some point in time it could be leaked that the U.S. is, in fact, supporting this imaginary person.'' Eventually, the paper speculated, ``a member of the resistance in Cuba may gain sufficient stature to assume or to be given the title of this imaginary leader.'' The Pentagon documents were written after the disastrous April 1961 invasion of Cuba's Bay of Pigs by Cuban exiles trained, armed and directed by the United States. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 30 13:59:44 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:59:44 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) Message-ID: <199801302155.PAA18887@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:43:31 -0600 (CST) > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:34:15 -0500 > > From: ghio at temp0203.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > > > > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of > > > your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and > > > the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a > > > whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through > > > the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, > > > is broken. > > > > Assume that the mirrors completely surround the objects, and that the only > > light source is IR thermal radiation, and that the mirrors are insulated > > from the outsite world, so we can assume a closed system. > > > > By the laws of optics, one focus should get warmer than the other, but by > > the law of entropy they must remain at the same temperature. That's the > > paradox. > > No, the total energy of the *system* stays constant, not individual > componants which are free to heat up or cool down as the energy in the > system is moved around. The total entropy of the lenses, the cold foci, > and the warm foci are what stays constant. A couple of other points that I should have added. Your base assumption that light and heat are not the same thing is faulty. They are in fact identical so to speak of the 'law of optics' and the 'laws of thermodynamics' as different things is in error. What happens in the *real* world is that a point is reached where the amount of energy emitted by each foci exactly balances the amount of energy received by each foci. We in effect reach thermodynamic equilibrium, better known as heat death. This term means that the minimal level of disorder has been reached by the system under study and without outside intervention no change, outside quantum fluctuations, will take place. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From whgiii at invweb.net Fri Jan 30 14:15:42 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 06:15:42 +0800 Subject: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba In-Reply-To: <199801302140.PAA13031@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801302229.RAA13448@users.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801302140.PAA13031 at wire.insync.net>, on 01/30/98 at 03:40 PM, Eric Cordian said: >While the US Government tries to whip up public opinion for the mass >murder of more Iraqis, filling the press with inflammatory statements, >most of which are based on no new information, and the inability to prove >negatives, newly declassified records demonstrate that such antics have >been used by the government before. > >Should the US, claiming to represent "the will of the whole world," >launch an unprovoked military strike against Iraq, based on some vague >claim that Iraq has not had its industrial infrastructure disemboweled to >the point where it will never again be able to perform even the simplest >chemical or biological laboratory work, I would hope that all thinking >non-sheep in this country would avail themselves of every covert >opportunity to monkey-wrench the US War Machine. > >UN economic sanctions demanded by the US against Iraq have already >directly resulted in the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis of all ages. > What a bunch of crap! I suggest you go over to Iraq and talk to the Kurds who were slaughtered in CBW attacks by the Iraq military (thanks Germany) and while you are over there ask Iraq's neighbors what they think of them getting Nukes. If it wasn't for the Israelie attack in '81-'82 he would have had the past 15 yrs to produce weapon grade uranium and plutonium (thanks France). Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNNJBcI9Co1n+aLhhAQEq1AQAq6d03E74Zev76U6Cmsxa/yLIXDah1lTt dLGZTnB8bhC1iL9kddVVAht/Zy1p2wMJ+9Nza6Ql5tUPE5dlG8A9Lu3/mklVsHjL QxHqsK+IeuHg+wBxiPlrMhc3qiCdWvqm91RyM6kX0u7fFwlZMbiKdQEYZkeC4SRp 4k3VDXkJJh8= =ZouU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 30 14:21:51 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 06:21:51 +0800 Subject: FC: Letter from high-tech CEOs to Feinstein: back off! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980130140759.00843bf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Forwarded from Declan's list >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Letter from high-tech CEOs to Feinstein: back off! >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >=== > > January 15, 1998 >> >> >> The Honorable Dianne Feinstein >> United States Senate >> Washington, DC 21510 >> >> >> Dear Senator Feinstein, >> >> As Chief Executive Officers of leading California companies, we were >> disappointed by your >> November 5 comments at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing implying >> that >> California companies >> are ambivalent regarding your position on encryption policy. We are >> anything but >> ambivalent about an >> issue that will have a profound impact on our companies, our >> customers, the >> citizens of our country, >> and our nation itself. >> >> We are in the midst of a transformation of our society into an era >> where >> information technology is >> affecting and improving all of our lives and all of our businesses. >> Without >> effective security we put >> at risk the confidentiality of our intellectual property, the public's >> privacy >> and the nation's critical >> infrastructure. And none of us will be able to take full advantage of >> the >> opportunities being presented >> to us by the promise of global electronic commerce. >> >> And consider the burgeoning threat of personal identity theft. As >> emphasized in >> the September 1997 >> issue of Consumer Reports, "the crime is one of the fastest-growing in >> the >> nation, according to the >> California District Attorneys Association. Identity thieves make off >> with >> billions of dollars a year...." >> Strong encryption with no systemic vulnerability is the best >> protection against >> such damaging fraud. >> Indeed, the credit-card industry, as you heard in testimony before the >> Judiciary >> Subcommittee on >> Terrorism and Technology on September 3, soon will be offering >> publicly a very >> sophisticated system >> for secure credit-card transactions over the Internet. While the >> system will be >> able to reconstruct >> transactions soon after the fact in response to legitimate >> law-enforcement >> requests, it does not employ >> keys and would not comply with the kind of mandate contemplated by the >> FBI. >> >> Mandatory key recovery policies, domestically and for export, will >> make the >> United States a second >> class nation in the Information Age. >> >> We are very sympathetic to the concerns of law enforcement, and we >> greatly >> respect your continuing >> support for them. In fact, if we believed that the policy of >> mandatory key >> recovery could successfully >> prevent criminals from having access to unbreakable encryption, we >> might support >> that position. >> However, this policy cannot succeed, and in the process of failing it >> will >> sacrifice the leading role that >> the State of California is playing in the international economy. Even >> more >> important, perhaps, the >> policy will create new law enforcement and national security >> challenges because >> U.S. corporations and >> government officials will be forced to rely on unproven foreign >> encryption >> technology. Maintaining >> United States leadership in the development of state-of-the-art >> cryptography is >> in the best interests of >> U.S. national security and law enforcement. California companies and >> industries >> nationwide are >> united in opposition to domestic and export controls that jeopardize >> this >> leadership. >> >> California companies need your support to be able to meet this new day >> with a >> strong and competitive >> encryption industry. We urge you to meet regularly with >> representatives from >> our companies, in >> Washington D.C. and in California, to discuss this issue further. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Christopher Allen >> President and CEO >> Consensus Development Corporation >> >> Bill Archey >> CEO >> American Electronics Association >> >> Jim Barksdale >> CEO >> Netscape Communications, Inc. >> >> Carol Bartz >> CEO >> Autodesk, Inc. >> >> George Bell >> CEO >> Excite, Inc. >> >> Eric Benhamou >> Chairman and CEO >> 3Com Corporation >> >> Jim Bidzos >> CEO >> RSA Data Security, Inc. >> >> Philip Bowles >> President >> Bowles Farming Co., Inc. >> >> Steve Case >> Chairman and CEO >> America Online, Inc. >> >> Wilfred J. Corrigan >> Chairman and CEO >> LSI Logic >> >> Thomas B. Crowley >> President & CEO >> Crowley Maritime Corporation >> >> Philip Dunkelberger >> CEO >> PGP >> >> Judy Estrin >> President & CEO >> Precept Software, Inc. >> >> David W. Garrison >> CEO >> Netcom On-Line Communication Services, Inc. >> >> Karl Geng >> President and CEO >> Siemens Business Communication Systems, Inc. >> Santa Clara, Calif. >> >> Charles M. Geschke >> President >> Adobe Systems, Inc. >> >> Brian L. Halla >> President, Chairman & CEO >> National Semiconductor, Inc. >> >> Gordon Mayer >> CEO and Chairman >> Geoworks Corporation >> >> Scott McNealy >> Chairman and CEO >> Sun Microsystems, Inc. >> >> >> >> Ed Mueller >> Predident and CEO >> Pacific Bell >> >> Kenneth J. Orton >> President and CEO >> Preview Travel, Inc. >> >> Willem P. Roelandts >> CEO >> Xilinx, Inc. >> >> Eric Schmidt >> CEO >> Novell, Inc. >> >> Tom Steding >> CEO >> Red Creek >> >> Deb Triant >> CEO >> Checkpoint >> >> David E. Weiss >> Chairman, President and CEO >> Storage Technology Corporation >> >> >> >> >> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cyber at ibpinc.com Fri Jan 30 15:01:27 1998 From: cyber at ibpinc.com (Roger J Jones) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:01:27 +0800 Subject: My apology Message-ID: <199801302253.QAA19834@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Tim, I stand corrected, This must be Chem-Punks Roger J. Jones -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00001.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 737 bytes Desc: "Roger John Jones (E-mail).vcf" URL: From emc at wire.insync.net Fri Jan 30 15:27:09 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:27:09 +0800 Subject: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba In-Reply-To: <199801302229.RAA13448@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <199801302314.RAA13193@wire.insync.net> WHGIII writes: > Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. > Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. Cuba is a pimple-sized island which in no way threatens the large continent next to it. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 30 15:29:11 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:29:11 +0800 Subject: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba (fwd) Message-ID: <199801302325.RAA19397@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:14:58 -0600 (CST) > WHGIII writes: > > > Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. > > Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. > > Cuba is a pimple-sized island which in no way threatens the large > continent next to it. Perhaps not, but those Russian made and maintaned atomic ICBM's parked 90 miles off Florida certainly did... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 30 16:07:14 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:07:14 +0800 Subject: More on ISDN Features Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980130235837.0072cee4@pop.pipeline.com> This is from UK Crypto, where the ISDN-snoop part of the EuroParl report on technologies for political control was cited and asked if true. Perhaps Jim Choate, Steve Schear and others might clarify. Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:09:40 +0000 To: ukcrypto at maillist.ox.ac.uk From: John Brooks Subject: Re: [vin at shore.net: EuroParl Report - NSA, Crypto, Liberty & Trade] >A draft ("consultation version") of a report by the European >Parliament's Office for Scientific and Technological Option Assessment >(STOA) entitled "AN APPRAISAL OF TECHNOLOGIES OF POLITICAL >CONTROL" has been submitted to the EuroParl's Civil Liberties and >Interior Committee. But this is all (or 99 percent) complete bollocks. >"[...] Some systems even lend themselves to a dual role as a national >interceptions network. ??? > For example the message switching system used on digital >exchanges like System X in the UK supports an Integrated >Services Digital Network (ISDN) Protocol. This allows digital >devices, e.g. fax to share the system with existing lines. The ISDN >subset is defined in their documents as "Signalling CCITT1-series >interface for ISDN access". I think this means I series - which are all public docs... >What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT >protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' Yes - ok. If you have a delinquent ISDN switch AND the totalitarian state wants to bug you AND YOU choose to use a handset which DOES NOT break the analogue path between the microphone and the ISDN NTU / TA (all standard analogue phones break the circuit, AFAIK. It's only the speakerphone gadgets that could be subverted.) Then I suppose this is possible. But who gives a s**t about the .1% of vulnerable phones. And it would be dead easy to mod them to defeat any such attempt. There are loads of easier ways to mount covert surveillance than screwing up the phone system! >and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, >without the user being aware that it is happening." ISDN is NOT a 'message switching protocol', and there is none as such on Sys X and Y, which use SS7 for inter-switch signalling anyway. The ISDN interfaces and service are only defined for the ends of various types of subscriber line, as far as I remember. What happens inside the provider network is up to the provider and is not ISDN. I'm much more concerned about the Echelon system which was (finally) reported in the Sunday Telegraph just before Xmas. This system, it is alleged, can intercept and look for keywords in ALL international comms traffic. I believe this also gets a mention in the Europarliament report. Vote early and often for freely available strong encryption!! (whatever JR mutters about 'doing him out of his livelihood' :=) ) Key escrow is another example of complete bollocks, IMHO. Cheers -jb -- John Brooks - Consultant in Data Communications, Networking and Energy Systems South Croydon, 7,CR2 7HN, UK Tel: (44) 181 681 1595 Fax: (44) 181 649 7536 The opinions expressed here are mine but are not offered as professional advice. ---------- BTW, provocative commentary on the EuroParl report by Vin McLellan, which is the source of the UK Crypto thread, is available at: http://jya.com/nsa-etc-nf.htm From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 30 16:28:27 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:28:27 +0800 Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction Message-ID: <199801310015.BAA00313@basement.replay.com> > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:36:28 -0500 > From: ghio at temp0200.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > Here's something to ponder: > > Consider two objects initially at the same temperature. One is at the > focus of a hemispherical mirror. An elliptical mirror with both objects > at its foci encloses the remaining space. > > Because of the spherical mirror, the first object reabsorbs most of its > heat lost by radiation, but most of the second object's radiated heat is > reflected upon the first. Hence the first object becomes warmer relative > to the second. > > The entropy here appears to decrease, but according to thermodynamics that > is impossible. Can anyone explain how it is that the total entropy would > not decrease? Perpetual motion machines built on violations of thermodynamics involving hemispherical and ellipsoidal mirrors have been around for years. They don't work. The objects do not change temperature. Trace a ray from each object. In every direction, it hits an object which is at exactly the same temperature as it is. It may be itself, or it may be the other object. But in each case, the temperature is the same in all directions. The "sky" is the same temperature as the object, so it does not change temperature. From jacosta at americasttv.com Fri Jan 30 16:28:53 1998 From: jacosta at americasttv.com (Joe Acosta) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:28:53 +0800 Subject: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980130162208.0086fd00@pop.americasttv.com> Well Well it was during Cuban Missile Crisis that the small pimple-sized Island brought us to the highest state of Def-Com ever (one level before actually launching an attack). At that point it time it was deadly serious; fortunately JFK and Krucheiv (sorry for murdering the spelling) where able to work something out and avoid a catastrophe. Joe Acosta At 05:14 PM 1/30/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote: >WHGIII writes: > >> Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. >> Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. > >Cuba is a pimple-sized island which in no way threatens the large >continent next to it. > >-- >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" > > From rfarmer at HiWAAY.net Fri Jan 30 17:31:02 1998 From: rfarmer at HiWAAY.net (Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:31:02 +0800 Subject: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? / Destroying encrypted data (Tangent to Re: Burning papers) In-Reply-To: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Message-ID: > > Your best chance at encrypting stuff that needs a long shelf life is with a > cipher that's had a lot of analysis and plenty of intrinsic key, like 3DES. Yes, I think that's what my (inaccurate) model would suggest you do, if my guesses as to break probability are close; real, practical cipher breaks get rarer after more analysis-hours pass -- i.e., ciphers are more likely to be broken in the first year of analysis than the tenth -- so expected lifetimes would increase with the amount of analysis survived. Of course, like TcM said, chaining ciphers only cuts speed by a little and helps security a lot. > > > Am I just going crazy, or is it kind of obvious that NSA knew the s-boxes they > > provided for DES weren't secure? > > The former. That shouldn't surprise anyone who's seen my posts. :) > The S-boxes they replaced were bogus, and the ones they came up with were > good against differential cryptanalysis -- better than random ones. There's > no a priori reason to believe they knew about linear cryptanalysis, and in > any case Matsui's l.c. attack on DES is better than brute force only in > situations where you have a great deal of known or chosen plaintext. So how > come you claim they aren't secure? DES isn't suitable for long-archived > info, but is still OK for short-lifetime data against a not-too-motivated > attacker: its only known weakness for this application is its key-length, not > its S-boxes. Perhaps I should say that the S-boxes weren't as secure as they could/should have been. We know how to construct better ones now (s^5 DES is just that -- DES w/better [?] S-boxes), and I'd venture to say that if NSA wasn't 21 years ahead, they either spent most of their cash on computers, not crypto whizzes, or else the cryptographers spent too much time on coffee breaks... As to their knowledge of linear attacks back then, the same thing applies; although we have no solid evidence, assuming they were up to today's level of analysis is not exactly going out on a limb. Now, this *is* going out on a limb (while contradicting my original statement :), but there's always the possibility that those S-boxes *were* as good as they could have been for 16 rounds, and there was an even more vile attack against DES with S-boxes which we think are more secure. ... > > Jim Gillogly > Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 00:27 > 12.19.4.15.17, 8 Caban 15 Muan, Second Lord of Night --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer at hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From bogus@does.not.exist.com Fri Jan 30 17:53:06 1998 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:53:06 +0800 Subject: Increased PayoutsUtilizing your traffic Message-ID: <199801310143.UAA27020@josh1.weboneinc.com> If you have traffic on your straight site that is looking for pics of the hottest guys on the net where do you send them? 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Don't delay signup now: http://www.breathlessboys.com/webmasters/ How do I know what I sold and when do I get paid? Stats in real-time availible online 24 hours a day seven days a week for you to check on how your account is doing. You will be paid for your commissions on the 3rd and 18th of every month. Any more questions? Feel free to contact our account executive at: webmaster at breathlessboys.com http://www.breathlessboys.com/webmasters/ ------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jan 30 18:09:53 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:09:53 +0800 Subject: Why This List Is A Security Risk Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848@pop.pipeline.com> Setting policy on national security risk for the entire USG, the DoD proclaims a trustworthy person does not engage in the following: Sec. 147.14 Guideline L--Outside activities. (a) The concern. Involvement in certain types of outside employment or activities is of security concern if it poses a conflict with an individual's security responsibilities and could create an increased risk of unauthorized disclosure of classified information. (b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include any service, whether compensated, volunteer, or employment with: (1) A foreign country; (2) Any foreign national; (3) A representative of any foreign interest; (4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. ----- >From 32 CFR Part 147 published today. From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 30 18:13:49 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:13:49 +0800 Subject: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? ... In-Reply-To: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Message-ID: I had tended to not take too seriously the posts of someone who signs himself as "Uhh...this is Joe," but the reasoning he displays below makes me take him more seriously: At 5:26 PM -0800 1/30/98, Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer] wrote: >Yes, I think that's what my (inaccurate) model would suggest you do, if my >guesses as to break probability are close; real, practical cipher breaks get >rarer after more analysis-hours pass -- i.e., ciphers are more likely to be >broken in the first year of analysis than the tenth -- so expected lifetimes >would increase with the amount of analysis survived. Just so. With one minor caveat: the amount of time should be replaced by "effort expended." Clearly there are a lot of flaky algorithms which have been given scant attention. It would be wrong to assume that the first year spent trying to break Blowfish is comparable to the first year spent trying to attack Virtual Matrix Superunbreakable Amazing Algorithm. But I generally like your intuition. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From declan at well.com Fri Jan 30 18:36:37 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:36:37 +0800 Subject: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:31:25 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials Attached below are excerpts from two Supreme Court cases. The first, NBC v. U.S. (1943), I read this week for a communications law class I'm auditing. The portion I'll include here deals with the history of radio (and I'm aware that there are revisionist histories that appear to be more accurate, or at least tell more of the truth). But I couldn't help thinking of the domain name disputes while reading it. Excerpt from National Broadcasting Co. v. U.S. (1943) ...The number of stations multiplied so rapidly, however, that by November, 1925, there were almost 600 stations in the country, and there were 175 applications for new stations. Every channel in the standard broadcast band was, by that time, already occupied by at least one station, and many by several. The new stations could be accommodated only by extending the standard broadcast band, at the expense of the other types of services, or by imposing still greater limitations upon time and power. The National Radio Conference which met in November, 1925, opposed both of these methods and called upon Congress to remedy the situation through legislation. The Secretary of Commerce was powerless to deal with the situation. It had been held that he could not deny a license to an otherwise legally qualified applicant on the ground that the proposed station would interfere with existing private or Government stations. And on April 16, 1926, an Illinois district court held that the Secretary had no power to impose restrictions as to frequency, power, and hours of operation, and that a station's use of a frequency not assigned to it was not a violation of the Radio Act of 1912. This was followed on July 8, 1926, by an opinion of Acting Attorney General Donovan that the Secretary of Commerce had no power, under the Radio Act of 1912, to regulate the power, frequency or hours of operation of stations. The next day the Secretary of Commerce issued a statement abandoning all his efforts to regulate radio and urging that the stations undertake self-regulation. But the plea of the Secretary went unheeded. From, July, 1926, to February 23, 1927, when Congress enacted the Radio Act of 1927, 44 Stat. 1162, almost 200 new stations went on the air. These new stations used any frequencies they desired, regardless of the interference thereby caused to others. Existing stations changed to other frequencies and increased their power and hours of operation at will. The result was confusion and chaos. With everybody on the air, nobody could be heard. The situation became so intolerable that the President in his message of December 7, 1926, appealed to Congress to enact a comprehensive radio law... Which gave us the predecessor of today's FCC. The question, of course, is if the justification for the FCC was to eliminate chaos, why did the agency not just stop there? Why the indecency rules, must-carry regs, fairness doctrine, overseeing network-station relationships, and so on? -Declan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:41:10 -0500 From: Marc Rotenberg To: Declan McCullagh Subject: From the Brandeis File Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizens. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperilled if it fails observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contageous. If the government becomes a lawbreaker; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means -- to declare that the government may commit crimes to secure the conviction of a private criminal -- would bring terrible retribution. Against that pernicious doctrine this Court should resolutely set its face. Olmstead v. US (1928) You remember Brandeis. He's the person who argued for the *right* of privacy. Hardly a surprise, therefore, that he would be so outspoken on the abuse of government authority. Marc. From declan at well.com Fri Jan 30 18:45:59 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:45:59 +0800 Subject: More on U.S. government and domain names Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: More on U.S. government and domain names [In the way of self-promotion: Yesterday I taped a CSPAN program on online journalism and Internet regulation. It's airing on CSPAN 1/30 at 7 pm, CSPAN2 at 1/31 at 10 am, and CSPAN 2/2 at 5 pm. I'll also be on National Empowerment Television (NET-TV) on Monday 2/2 around 10:15 pm to talk about encryption regulation. Also tomorrow on PBS Technopolitics (airing here at 11:30 am on WETA 26), the topic is crypto. I believe the guests are NAM's David Peyton and Commerce Dept's William Reinsch. --Declan] ********** Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:58:11 -0800 From: John Gilmore To: declan at well.com, gnu at toad.com Subject: Netrape Screwlootions begins operations under US Government plan In response to the publication of the US Government's plan to provide long-term stable operation of the Internet domain name system, we have an announcement. Today we are forming a new company, Netrape Screwlootions, Inc. We claim the domain names ".net", ".rape", ".screw", ".lootions", and ".inc", but will settle for ".screw" in the short term. We have a climate-controlled 24-hour operation center deep in the bowels of the earth, with plenty of spare energy. Though there are no ethical standards required for assignment of a government-controlled domain name, we assure you that we meet the highest ethical standards for the lowest place. We have extensive connections in all parts of the Government, especially the White House, which will guarantee our rightful place in the selection of appropriate organizations to manage the transition from public service to throttled competition and then to the heavenly free Internet envisioned by the plan. We meet all the necessary requirements. Everyone is welcome, and we are open 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. We have standardized on high-quality Lucifer encryption for all our accesses. We have multiple high-speed connections to the upper world, and we daily make an archive of all our customers so that they can be resuscitated for continuing operations if they are accidentally destroyed. Our searchable database of customers is maintained by the Perl-y Gates himself. The first one is always free with us, including our software. Our number of global zones of service is completely adequate, providing non-denominational worldwide access to our facilities. Our management policies have been reviewed by the very highest authorities. We assure you that our technical staff is very expert in its machinations, and we offer them constant practice to refine their skills. We have created alternate dispute resolution for trademark-related complaints. This process does not involve the time, expense, and pain of litigation. Instead, our process involves sending trademark lawyers and domain scammers to the deepest part of our operations center, where their thresholds will be studied by the application of delicate instruments that have taken centuries to perfect. The party who screams the loudest will prevail, as usual. Innocent domain users would be inconvenienced by the use of this procedure, but we do not expect any innocent users to actually register domain names. Both sides in the trademark debate assure us that all domain names infringe trademarks and that all trademark owners are slavering monsters. Our level of security is the best. No-one gets past the guards who protect our portals, and we have been in operation for millennia. No malicious hacker has ever escaped us in the long term. We definitely provide a "hot switchover" capability. We have extensive experience with fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, arson, bombs, and other acts of God and War. It is often said that one's soul is visible in one's face, and what else could be called the public face of a company but its name? Your name will be safe with us. Our prices are quite low, certainly no more than the price of a small mass of pottage. We will be glad to register your ...name with us, and when the appropriate time comes, you will then know our true prices. We are looking forward to it. Moo-haa-haaaaaaaaaa....... ************ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:00:01 -0500 From: Keith Dawson To: declan at well.com Cc: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Re: FC: U.S. gvt plan to fully privatize the Internet At 10:15 AM -0500 1/30/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >The Clinton administration has released its long-awaited >plan to privatize the central nervous system of the >Internet. Declan -- nice summary. See my initial analysis at http://www.tbtf.com/index.html#tbotoday . **** Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:43:22 -0500 From: Mikki Barry Subject: A-TCPIP/DNRC Press Release Re: Green Paper Press Release January 30, 1998 Contacts: Mikki Barry President, A-TCPIP/ Domain Name Rights Coalition P.O. Box 25876 Alexandria, VA 22313-5876 703.925-0282 Email: ooblick at netpolicy.com Harold Feld, Esq. c/o Covington & Burling 1201 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. P.O. Box 7566 Washington, D.C. 20044-7566 202.662-5132 Email: hfeld at domain-name.org or hfeld at cov.com HERNDON, VA - The Association for the Creation and Propagation of Internet Policies (A-TCPIP) and its working group the Domain Name Rights Coalition (DNRC) welcome the release of the Commerce Department's Green Paper this morning. This paper marks the first time there has been a real effort to capture the diversity of interests in the Internet community on the issue of Internet Governance. "The Internet community should be grateful to Ira Magaziner and his staff for sorting through the hundreds of pages of comments and ideas and producing this well thought out paper," said Mikki Barry, president of A-TCPIP/DNRC. "Now is the time for all small business and public interest organizations who wish to be heard to join with us in helping the Commerce Department focus on ensuring the Internet's continued role in communications and the free flow of information" Harold Feld, Assistant General Counsel of the A-TCPIP/DNRC stated "This is a good first step, but more must come. The Internet is a medium of communications and communities, not just commerce. The vast majority of Internet uses are for communications rather than commerce. We need a clear statement that communications and free speech, including personal and political speech and parody, is valued and protected above all other interests including commerce and intellectual property. The policies of this paper need to reiterate that fact." While applauding the paper's recognition of the role of free market innovators, A-TCPIP/DNRC Vice President and Internet entrepreneur Mike Doughney worried that the paper also contained provisions that would shut out small businesses and people with new ideas. " Dual T1 connections and 24 hour guards make registration services prohibitive for smaller business concerns to enter the marketplace," said Doughney "and allowing one company (even through separate subsidiaries) to be both registry and registrar further stifles the competitive nature inherent to the Internet." Specific points of the paper that the A-TCPIP/DNRC feel need to be addressed include: The make up of the non profit oversight corporation does not include enough seats for small business or for individual users. One seat for each is not enough given that the vast majority of Internet use is by small business, individual users, non profit entities, and others who use it as a forum for communication. The role .us Top Level Domain needs to be clarified. "The .us domain is a valuable resource that is woefully under utilized," said Kathryn Kleiman, General Counsel of the organization. "We are highly encouraged that Mr. Magaziner addressed it in his paper. We stand ready to assist in formulating a coherent policy for its use." Registrars should not be forced to have a domain name dispute policy. Domain name disputes, as with all other disputes involving trademark law need to be settled by court proceedings. Trademark owners should have no superior rights in cyberspace than they have in any other medium of communications. Registrars should not be forced to suspend domain names if an objection (baseless or not) is lodged within 30 days of that name's registration. Doing so would prohibit timely personal, political and commercial speech, and is essentially a 30 day waiting period that would be particularly injurious to small business interests.Further, the automatic suspension is contrary to trademark law because it effectively grants an automatic injunction against the domain name owner where the trademark owner has not proven any likelihood of confusion or infringment. A-TCPIP/DNRC has represented entrepreneurs, small businesses and individuals on issues of Internet governance and domain name concerns since 1995. Its Internet website can be found at http://www.domain-name.org and includes the organization's comments to the Department of Commerce in this proceeding. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:21:48 EST From: von Kriegsherr To: declan at well.com Cc: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: U.S.Gov.To Turn `Net over to Moguls Who are we kidding? Ourselves. Keeping the `Net under the protection of U.S. soil, so to speak, is the ONLY guarantee that some international Cabal does not decide for us what we will be able to write or research. It's a few short steps from a total control of all information which is declared, "sensitive." From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jan 30 20:02:04 1998 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:02:04 +0800 Subject: FCC want to unclog Internet [CNN] Message-ID: <199801310401.WAA20675@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > FCC CHIEF WANTS TO UNTANGLE INTERNET CONGESTION > > January 30, 1998 > Web posted at: 6:59 p.m. EST (2359 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's top telecommunications regulator > wants to help ease the world wide wait on the Internet. > > Federal Communications Commission Chairman Bill Kennard doesn't have > a plan yet but said Friday that he intends to start looking into > ways to give companies incentives to provide more high-speed > connections into homes. That would help ease congestion on the > Internet. > > "One issue that I'm particularly interested in is finding ways that > we can foster more investment in high-capacity bandwidth. I believe > that our nation will have an ever-increasing appetite for bandwidth > -- for high capacity data transmission capabilities," he told > reporters during a briefing on his top goals for the year. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From garbanzo at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 30 20:33:53 1998 From: garbanzo at worldnet.att.net (garbanzo at worldnet.att.net) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:33:53 +0800 Subject: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials Message-ID: <19980131042905.AAA4969@[12.67.34.192]> > >Which gave us the predecessor of today's FCC. The question, of course, is >if the justification for the FCC was to eliminate chaos, why did the >agency not just stop there? Why the indecency rules, must-carry regs, >fairness doctrine, overseeing network-station relationships, and so on? > >-Declan > This is the nature of regulatory agencies. The FDA for example was originally just supposed to make sure that foods and drugs were labeled properly and did what they were supposed to do. Now it wants to ban cloning and tobacco. > Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that > government officials shall be subjected to the same > rules of conduct that are commands to the citizens. > In a government of laws, existence of the government > will be imperilled if it fails observe the law > scrupulously. Our government is the potent, > omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the > whole people by example. Crime is contageous. If > the government becomes a lawbreaker; it invites > every man to become a law unto himself; it invites > anarchy. To declare that in the administration of > the criminal law the end justifies the means -- > to declare that the government may commit crimes > to secure the conviction of a private criminal > -- would bring terrible retribution. Against that > pernicious doctrine this Court should resolutely > set its face. > > Olmstead v. US (1928) > >You remember Brandeis. He's the person who argued for >the *right* of privacy. Hardly a surprise, therefore, >that he would be so outspoken on the abuse of government >authority. > Jeez...expecting government officials to *obey* the *law*? Where do you think you live? So long as the economy is good you can do pretty much anything you want it seems. From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Jan 30 21:28:39 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:28:39 +0800 Subject: orlin grabbe on digital cash Message-ID: <199801310522.VAA17339@netcom13.netcom.com> from zolatimes, an interesting online newspaper also Orlin's site is an eyeful! ------- Forwarded Message From: Kris Millegan RoadsEnd Subject: Digital Cash and the Regulators To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM from: http://zolatimes.com/ Laissez Faire City Times Newspaper - ----- Another fine issue, As always, . . . Om K - ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ January 29, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 3 Editor & Chief: Emile Zola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - III-By J. Orlin Grabbe The City Times - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Digital Science Department Digital Cash and the Regulators by J. Orlin Grabbe """ Digital cash, like other forms of money, can be issued in any political or legal jurisdiction, or in any banking environment: Salt Lake City, the Cayman Islands, Cyprus, or Sidney. There is a great deal of flexibility available to the digital cash provider when viewed from a global perspective. Nevertheless, digital cash may operate locally under a set of rules and regulations similar to other forms of computer money such as bank deposits. ("Locally" can be almost any Internet-accessible country.) The question of how banking regulators view digital cash is a practical one, because the answers to the question demonstrate the sort of issues that arise in any banking context. All the examples here will involve the U.S., a country with a complex maze of banking regulations. >From the point of view of central bankers, digital cash generates three sorts of questions. Who issues it? How is it used as a means of payment? What impact does it have on the banking system balance sheet or bottom-line? Currency Competition and Seigniorage Digital cash is by design a partial substitute for ordinary cash. Hence it will be used in much the same fashion as ordinary cash--a context with which central bankers are familiar. To a certain extent, digital cash threatens the profitability inherent in central bank note issue. Consider traveler's checks. Traveler's checks are a form of private bank currency. They are analogous to the bank notes issued by private commercial banks in the U.S. prior to the Civil War. As such, they are very profitable to the banks and companies that issue them, because no interest is paid out on traveler's checks to the check holders, but the issuer earns interest on the funds that customers use to purchase them. When you purchase American Express Traveler's Checks, you are making an interest-free loan to American Express. That's why AMEX likes to sell them to you--apart from the fees involved in the transaction. As with traveler's checks, digital cash products such as electronic purses (a card with a memory chip on it) represent an attempt by commercial banks to capture part of the seigniorage earned by the central bank from issuing notes. Holders of currency (Federal Reserve notes) are making an interest-free loan to the government. The interest opportunity cost adds up. The approximate $20 billion that the Federal Reserve turned over to the U.S. Treasury in 1994, for example, represented about 5 percent of the $400 billion in Federal Reserve notes. The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) estimated that in the United States seigniorage is .43 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), while central bank (Federal Reserve) expenses are .03 percent of GDP, implying a profit of .40 percent of GDP. [1] These numbers can be used as a reference base to calculate the amount of seigniorage recapture available to providers of digital cash. Suppose that that digital cash was so successful for small purchases that it eliminated the U.S. $1, $5, $10, and $20 dollar bills. In that case, the BIS estimates the loss in seigniorage at .14 percent of GDP. Now it is highly unlikely that digital cash would replace all small denomination bills, as assumed in this calculation. But the calculation shows that up to one-third of current Federal Reserve seigniorage is potentially available to digital cash providers. And that's a lot of money. While some central banks may be concerned that digital cash will infringe on their monopoly of issuing bank notes (although most do not appear to be particularly alarmed), such a monopoly can be easily circumvented without computers and without telecommunications. All that is required for the success of any privately-issued currency is local acceptance as a means of payment for goods and labor. Consider, for example, HOURS, which is a local currency circulating in Ithaca, New York. Here is a brief (albeit dated) summary of the HOURS system. [2] HOURS is a local currency created and issued by citizens in Ithaca, New York. The organizers have issued over $50,000 in local paper money to over 950 participants since 1991. An estimated $500,000 of in HOURS-based transactions have taken place. The idea behind an HOUR is that it is a rough equivalent to a $10.00 bill. The unit was chosen because ten dollars per hour was the average wage paid in Tompkins County. HOUR notes come in four denominations, and have been used to buy goods and services like plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, roofing, nursing, chiropractic care, child care, car and bike repair, food, eyeglasses, firewood, and gifts. The local credit union accepts them for mortgage and loan fees. People pay rent with HOURS. Some of the best restaurants in town take them, as do movie theaters, bowling alleys, two large locally-owned grocery stores, and thirty farmer's market vendors. Everyone who agrees to accept HOURS is paid two HOURS ($20.00) for being listed in the newsletter Ithaca Money. Every eight months they may apply to be paid an additional two HOURS, as reward for continuing participation. This mechanism increases the per capita supply of HOURS. Ithaca Money contains 1200 member listings. HOUR loans are made without interest charges. Multi-colored HOURS bear serial numbers and are printed on hard-to-counterfeit locally-made watermarked cattail (marsh reed) paper. Naturally, HOUR payments are taxable income when received for professional goods or services. The organizers have created a guide to creating local currency, called a Hometown Money Starter Kit. The Kit explains the start-up and maintenance of an HOURS system, and includes forms, laws, articles, procedures, insights, samples of Ithaca's HOURS, and issues of Ithaca Money. They've sent the Kit to over 300 communities in 45 states. To get one, send $25.00 (or 2.5 HOURS) to Ithaca Money, Box 6578, Ithaca, NY. 14851. HOURS, much like traveler's checks, are an attempt to recapture a part of the currency seignoriage usually given up to the central bank. Like HOURS, digital cash does not require the approval of some central authority to form a viable mechanism. And the presence of seigniorage means that digital cash products can be highly profitable, for they simply arbitrage the difference between the cost of producing digital cash and the return available to the issuers of the medium of exchange. As we saw previously, the Federal Reserve made $20 billion of this arbitrage in 1994, after payment of all expenses. Is Digital Cash (Stored-Value) a Deposit? U.S. banking regulations distinguish broadly between deposit-issuing institutions and others. Thus the question whether the digital cash liability of a private company represents a deposit or not determines who might attempt to regulate it or whether it is eligible for federal deposit insurance. Some of these questions here are more important in a non-anonymous digital cash system than in an anonymous one. A depositor who is anonymous, or who wishes his transactions to remain private, is probably not interested in being identified for insurance purposes, or receiving regular bank statements detailing his financial activities. But, that having been said, a look at some representative regulations is important for the purpose of understanding the political and legal barriers to the creation of an anonymous digital cash system. Digital cash is a balance sheet liability of the commercial banks or companies that issue it. Does it thus fall under the laws governing ordinary checking accounts? And what about discharge of debt? In the case of the U.S., federal law does not currently address obligations discharged by stored value cards--only those settled by cash, check, or wire transfer. FDIC deposit insurance, which applies to most bank deposits, can be easily extended to stored value cards under the guise of a general liability account. The FDIC General Counsel has issued an opinion [3] that divides stored-value cards into four categories: ·Bank Primary-Customer Account Systems--where funds stay in the customer's account until they are transferred to a merchant or other payee (as with a debit card). These are considered customer "deposits" and covered by FDIC deposit insurance. ·Bank Primary-Reserve Account Systems--where funds are downloaded onto a customer's card (or software), and the bank's obligation is transferred to a reserve or general liability account to pay merchants and other payees. These are also considered issuer "deposits", and covered by FDIC insurance. ·Bank Secondary-Advance Systems--where a card issuer is a third party, the bank makes the cards available to customers, and customers pay the third party for the stored value using funds from their bank account. The stored-value funds in this case are not considered deposits, and are not covered. ·Bank Secondary-Pre-Acquisition Systems--where the card is issued by a third party, the bank pays the third party for the card value, and subsequently sells the stored value to customers. Again, the stored-value funds are not considered deposits, and are not covered. Non-banks, meanwhile, are not eligible for FDIC deposit insurance. But the question remains, If non-banks issue stored-value products, are these stored-value funds "deposits"? For if stored-value is legally a deposit, then federal and state regulators might attempt to deny a company or other entity the right to issue the product, using the Glass-Steagall Act or similar provisions. If stored value-products are "deposits," then a non-bank might also become subject to the jurisdiction of the Federal Trade Commission (12 U.S.C.A. 1831 t(e)) or might be treated as a bank for the purposes of the Bank Holding Company Act (12 U.S.C.A. 1841 (c)(1)). This is something to keep in mind before selecting Salt Lake City as your digital cash base. Nationally chartered banks are under the supervision of the Office of Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has explicitly approved national bank participation in one digital cash system, Mondex, and in stored value systems generally, stating "national banks may under 12 U.S.C. 24(Seventh) engage in the business of Mondex USA", and also that "national banks may under 12 U.S.C. 24(Seventh) engage in the business of operating a stored value system". [4] In addition, the Federal Reserve has authorized bank-holding companies who own ATM networks to provide stored-value card systems through these networks. A Closer Look at Mondex Mondex is known as a stored value card system. "Stored value" simply means the money is stored on a memory chip on the Mondex card instead of, say, being stored as pieces of paper in your wallet. This "stored value" will be used in everyday purchase and sale transactions just like cash. Hence the chief function of the "stored value" is as a medium of exchange (and not, as the name might imply, as intertemporal savings--which is the usual meaning of the phrase "store of value" in economic discussions of money). The rights to Mondex are held by Mondex International Ltd., a U.K. limited liability company. Fifty-one percent of Mondex International is owned by MasterCard International, while a consortium of global banks owns the other 49 percent. The U.S. rights to Mondex have been purchased by a group of nationally-chartered U.S. banks, listed below. These U.S. banks have in turn formed two Delaware limited liability companies to operate Mondex. One of these two companies will act as a bank. It will create, sell, and redeem the "electronically stored value" (ESV) on Mondex cards. That is, it will trade other forms of U.S. dollars for value stored on the Mondex card. It will issue (sell) ESV for dollars, and it will redeem (buy back) ESV in exchange for dollars. ESV is thus just another form of money: dollars, if denominated in dollars; pounds, if denominated in pounds, and so on. From now on we will simply call the Mondex ESV "Mondex Dollars". The Delaware company acting as the bank is called an OLLC (Originator Limited Liability Company). Its liabilities will be the Mondex Dollars it issues against payment. The money the OLLC receives will be invested in U.S. government securities, and cash and cash-equivalents such as interbank deposits and overnight repurchase agreements. These are the OLLC assets. The holdings of cash and cash-equivalents is required in order to be able redeem Mondex Dollars on demand. The second Delaware company will act as a licensing and servicing entity. The equity in the two companies is divided up between Wells Fargo (30 percent), Texas Commerce Bank (20 percent), First National Bank of Chicago (10 percent), AT&T (10 percent), NOVUS (10 percent), and MasterCard (10 percent). In granting these nationally-chartered banks the right to operate a subsidiary which carries out digital cash operations, the OCC applied four criteria: (1) Is the operation related to banking? (2) Do the banks have sufficient control to disallow non-banking activities? (3) Is the banks' loss exposure limited? (4) Is the investment related to the banks' ordinary banking business? Since the OCC determined that the answers to these four questions were all "yes", it approved the Mondex proposal. Regulation E The Federal Reserve's Regulation E implements the Electronic Fund Transfer Act (EFTA). Under the guise of consumer protection, Regulation E requires various disclosures related to electronic funds transfer, as well as advance notice of changes in terms, transaction receipts, periodic statements, error resolution procedures, limitations on consumer liability, and restrictions on unsolicited giving of funds-transfer access-devices to consumers. On May 2, 1996, the Federal Reserve proposed to extend Regulation E to stored value cards. It would classify stored-value systems as "on-line", "off-line accountable", or "off-line unaccountable". On-line systems would be simple debit cards where accounts balances are stored in a central database, not on the card, and communication with the central facility is required for balance transfers. Off-line accountable systems are ones in which balances are recorded on the card, transactions do not have to be transmitted to a central facility to be pre-authorized, but where each transaction is stored and periodically transmitted to a central facility. Off-line unaccountable systems are those in which transactions are not pre-authorized, transactions are not traceable to a particular card, and the card's value is only recorded on the card itself. The Fed proposes to make both on-line and off-line accountable systems subject to Regulation E requirements on transaction receipts and dispute resolutions if the maximum value that can be loaded is greater than $100, but exempt if the maximum value is $100 or less. Off-line unaccountable systems allowing values greater than $100 would be subject to the Regulation E requirement on initial disclosure, but would be totally exempt with respect to payment transactions. On-line systems allowing values greater than $100 would have to meet all requirements of Regulation E, except for periodic statements, provided an account balance and account history is available on request. The Fed's proposal would thus seem to eliminate on-line anonymous systems (because of the transaction history requirement), but would allow for off-line anonymous systems under the "off-line unaccountable" option--as long as account withdrawals were recorded. A digital cash system like Mondex, operating out of Delaware, has to grapple with all these issues. This has the advantage that, having made the regulators happy, the Mondex owners can then aggressively market their product through all the usual banking and financial channels. But those who are looking to create a digital cash product where privacy and security are paramount will probably want to go off-shore and avoid the regulators to a great extent. But they will still be left with the more important, and practical, problem of making their customers happy. And they will still be looking to recapture some of the central bank seigniorage. Click for a Menu of Other Digital Cash Articles by J. Orlin Grabbe * * * [1] Bank for International Settlements, Implications for Central Banks of the Development of Electronic Money, Basle, October 1996. [2] Glover, Paul, "Creating Ecological Economics with Local Currency", undated manuscript. Glover's article contains a lot of grass-roots socialism that I don't agree with. But that is not material to the use of HOURS as an illustration of an alternative currency. [3] Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, "General Counsel's Opinion No. 8--Stored Value Cards," by William F. Kroener, III, General Counsel, FDIC, July 16, 1996. [4] Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, "Interpretations--Conditional Approval #220," published in Interpretations and Actions, December 1996. [30] Back to Home Page Quick Menu Visit the Button Shop - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Interactive Forum Digital Cash - Regulators E-mail the Editor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ J. Orlin Grabbe is one of the leading experts in the expanding area of financial data encryption systems being developed for the new CyberEconomy. He is also one of the world's leading experts on international finance. His textbooks on the subject are ubiquitous in top universities worldwide. No serious student of international finance is unaware of who he is and what he has done. He is a Harvard Ph.D. While a professor at Wharton, he trained many of the top traders and derivatives experts as well as the "quants" who run Wall Street's automated computer trading systems. E-mail - ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris ========================================================================= To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om ------- End of Forwarded Message From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jan 30 22:12:33 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:12:33 +0800 Subject: Secure checksums Message-ID: <199801310605.HAA14285@basement.replay.com> Timmy May sits at his terminal dressed in five-inch stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, a gold-lame mini-skirt, a purple halter with girdle underneath to keep in his flabby gut, a Fredericks of Hollywood padded bra also underneath the halter, a cheap Naomi Sims pink afro wig, waiting to yank his crank whenever a black man responds to one of his inane rants. o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ Timmy May / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \ From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Fri Jan 30 22:12:36 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:12:36 +0800 Subject: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Declan, Did *you* get a blow job from Monica Lewinski? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From foggy at gilligan.netisle.net Fri Jan 30 23:17:08 1998 From: foggy at gilligan.netisle.net (Gary Harland) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:17:08 +0800 Subject: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment Message-ID: The Washington Post reported Jan. 30th that Prince George County (where dat?) police are collecting spit and fingerprints, not only from every suspect they interview in connection with the rape and murder of a nurse- administrator, but also from all 400 male hospital employees at the hospital the victim formerly worked at. The spit's for DNA testing and the fingerprints are just for the helluva it I guess. It's just a request mind you. If you refuse, you won't necessarily be con- sidered a suspect but the information you supply 'would certainly be under scrutiny' according to the Chief Thug of Prince George County. Oh! The 4th amendment? That dusty old thing? When the scumbags are kicking in your door which would you rather have protecting you: a raggedy old piece of paper or a Prince George County Mountie SWAT team in full ninja dress and the latest high-tech law-enforcement goodies? Thought so. Cup's at the end of the counter comrade. Have a nice day. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy at netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From foggy at gilligan.netisle.net Fri Jan 30 23:17:18 1998 From: foggy at gilligan.netisle.net (Gary Harland) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:17:18 +0800 Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker Message-ID: Mr. Carl Gorman, one of the few remaining Navajo 'Code-Talkers' of WWII fame, died yesterday of cancer at the age of 90. Along with his fellow Navajo, he encrypted military voice communication by using his native language over the radio in the Great American Imperialist Struggle against the Great Japanese Imperialist Initative. Just a few thoughts: - when asked why he helped America after all the abuse he took growing up as a Navajo, he basically said (my interpretation here) he was fighting to protect the Navajo, not particularily America, from the Japanese. A geographical dilemma. - aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? - on the other hand, the lovely ambiguities of natural language would seem to be capable of effectively obscuring the meaning of the message even if the plaintext were revealed. For example, President Clinton's reference to 'blowjobs' not actually being a sexual act. While the President is innocently asking a normal person to provide him with a urgently needed act of personal hygiene, that person mistakingly would be thinking he wants oral sex. An effective obscuration of the Prez's message. - now-a-days of course, if the shoe were on the other foot, the Navy's NOSS satellite constellations would trianglate on the radio signal and feed the coordinates to one of the TDRS sat- ellites to target the crusie missles we just launched, effectively ending the conversation prematurely without regard to syntax. [Sexy Hi-Tech Option]. Using radio for passing encrypted comm seems to require a few non-traditional approaches. For example, using a repeater system that would present the NOSS satellites and any RDF equipment in the neighborhood with 'a thousand points of...' RF energy - the 'needle-in-the-haystack' approach. The source would be difficult to find amongst its many (presumedly cheap) clones. Oh well. Good bye Carl. Thanks for the help. Sorry we were such jerks. On the bright side - we're such third-rate fuckups it's a sure thing the Navajo will out-live us if they just hang in there a little bit longer. Your living to 90 was a fine example. Survival is always the best revenge. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy at netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sat Jan 31 01:26:38 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:26:38 +0800 Subject: Why This List Is A Security Risk In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980130224619.00855500@popd.ix.netcom.com> Eric Hughes was discussion out-of-band attacks on security systems, such as providing the target's employees with opportunities for "simultaneous employment" :-) However, as the last part of section (4) says, you've got to be careful of those suspicious foreign cryptographers.... At 09:05 PM 1/30/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Setting policy on national security risk for the entire USG, >the DoD proclaims a trustworthy person does not engage in >the following: > >Sec. 147.14 Guideline L--Outside activities. > > (a) The concern. Involvement in certain types of outside employment >or activities is of security concern if it poses a conflict with an >individual's security responsibilities and could create an increased risk of >unauthorized disclosure of classified information. > (b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be >disqualifying include any service, whether compensated, volunteer, or >employment with: > (1) A foreign country; > (2) Any foreign national; > (3) A representative of any foreign interest; > (4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person >engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on >intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. > >>From 32 CFR Part 147 published today. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jan 31 02:40:54 1998 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:40:54 +0800 Subject: stupid test (virus warning) Message-ID: <199801311025.LAA09936@basement.replay.com> > .... you get an email from .ru address, with small .com file attached. > .... you think: "I shall run it!" > > .... you flunk. > > >DUUUUHHHH. >Hey, Mr. Lame .ru: give it up. The same could be said about anybody who actually thinks DOS/Windows machines have any semblence of security what so ever. From aurapro at earthlink.net Sat Jan 31 06:43:47 1998 From: aurapro at earthlink.net (aurapro at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:43:47 +0800 Subject: Electric Utility De-Regulation Message-ID: <199801311435.GAA22793@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Hi ! January 1st was the official launch of the most powerful���������� business opportunity in the history of networking. Here's your chance to get in on the ground floor and sieze an opportunity to take advantage of electric utility deregulation and realize some of those dreams you've been dreaming. When the telephone industry deregulated, millionares were made. At $215 Billion as an industry, Electric Utilities is 10 TIMES the opportunity that long distance telephone was. Don't delay! Get started now! We will provide full training and support. You are up and running within 48 hours - and low, low start-up costs! This IS the big one. You will have access to our advanced technology to help build your business because it is all in house as well as a generic website for you and all of those in your group!� E-mail inquiries only - please leave your phone number and time to call (or call me)� E-mail to: Electrifyme at juno.com �� OPPORTUNITIES ARE NEVER LOST ..... ����������� ........JUST FOUND BY SOMEONE ELSE !! Thanks for your time, John (413) 736-2442 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From rfarmer at HiWAAY.net Sat Jan 31 08:23:48 1998 From: rfarmer at HiWAAY.net (Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:23:48 +0800 Subject: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I had tended to not take too seriously the posts of someone who signs himself > as "Uhh...this is Joe," That was probably a good idea. > but the reasoning he displays below makes me take him more seriously: Ooh, bad move! :) > ...the amount of time should be replaced by "effort expended." That was what I meant, although my wording of it was sort of ambiguous; "years of analysis," "analysis-hours," etc. refer to the time the cryptographers actually spent on studying the cipher, not the time elapsed since the cipher's release. [...] > > --Tim May > > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer at hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From tcmay at got.net Sat Jan 31 10:34:49 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:34:49 +0800 Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (As Gary seems to be a newcomer, let me remind him and others that "cypherpunks at toad.com" is not the place to send messages to the list. Please use one of the distributed addresses. It's been a year since the list moved off of toad.com. I wish John would just start bouncing messages sent to toad.com and be done with it.) At 11:16 PM -0800 1/30/98, Gary Harland wrote: >- when asked why he helped America after all the abuse he took >growing up as a Navajo, he basically said (my interpretation >here) he was fighting to protect the Navajo, not particularily >America, from the Japanese. A geographical dilemma. Never understimate the power of blind chauvinistic patriotism. Killing Japs was the honorable thing to do, even for Injuns. >- aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to >languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all >human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the >effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? "All crypto is economics." One doesn't have to jump to theoretical mumbo jumbo about a putative "identical fundamental syntax" to know that the Navajo code talkers were not using an unbreakable system. But what mattered is that, for the level of security needed on the battlefield, the system was "essentially secure" against Japanese translation. Sure, in time the Japanese could have found some experts on Navajo, could have trained their own code talker translators, etc. But they didn't have this time. (And if we posit "enough time," then the U.S. military would have had enough time to drop the Navajo code talkers and replace them with Ebonics code talkers. Dat be da jive, mo fo.) "All crypto is economics." --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sat Jan 31 11:11:13 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:11:13 +0800 Subject: Dr Dobbs crypto CD Message-ID: The DDJ I just got (March 98) has a full-page ad for the crypto CD (p.113) saying inter alia "New Release! fast Search Engine" Has anyone received even the "old release"? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sat Jan 31 11:50:45 1998 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:50:45 +0800 Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim May writes: > (As Gary seems to be a newcomer, let me remind him and others that > "cypherpunks at toad.com" is not the place to send messages to the list. > Please use one of the distributed addresses. It's been a year since the > list moved off of toad.com. I wish John would just start bouncing messages > sent to toad.com and be done with it.) When are cocksuckers John Gilmore and Guy Polis planning to die from AIDS? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From attila at hun.org Sat Jan 31 12:08:35 1998 From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 04:08:35 +0800 Subject: Why This List Is A Security Risk In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <19980131.194552.attila@hun.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >(4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person >engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on >intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. that must be why the federal assholes have always denied aps for clearance, we are bunch of fucking subversives! of course, I know better than that: more than once having told representatives of the criminal class that I may sell my services on the market, but I am not your, not my, government's whore. unfortunately, (yeah, right!) they have taken a dim view of me --and most anyone I associate with. well, fuck 'em if they cant take a joke --criticism is part of freedom and when the govcritters figure out they represent us, not own us; and when they stop hypocritically dictating policy to the rest of the world, maybe we'll have something to talk about. and, if that last statement comes true, I'll not only believe in the tooth fairy, but I'll throw in the fairy godmother for a bonus. shit, I'll even toss in a godfather or two... attila out... grousing === whole text from jya === on or about 980130:2105, in <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848 at pop.pipeline.com>, John Young was purported to have expostulated to perpetuate an opinion: >Setting policy on national security risk for the entire USG, the DoD >proclaims a trustworthy person does not engage in the following: >Sec. 147.14 Guideline L--Outside activities. > (a) The concern. Involvement in certain types of outside employment >or activities is of security concern if it poses a conflict with an >individual's security responsibilities and could create an increased risk >of unauthorized disclosure of classified information. > (b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be >disqualifying include any service, whether compensated, volunteer, or >employment with: > (1) A foreign country; > (2) Any foreign national; > (3) A representative of any foreign interest; > (4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person >engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on >intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. >----- >>From 32 CFR Part 147 published today. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNNOCwrR8UA6T6u61AQFmvwH/QPMS8SgEbHuwAMDYcTdQe2hkYALuqnyk 3uPGfN1psh7k+saOLFchVVGSpmTriYVPpnM5kKK/RSx/UqCMqLxqmw== =GBIt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Sat Jan 31 13:53:32 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 05:53:32 +0800 Subject: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Prince George's County, MD is east and north of Washington, DC. The PG County police have already earned a reputation for L.A.P.D.-style abuse of civil rights. This case has been in the national news for days, now; PG Co. PD seems to have backed down, now that the ACLU has gotten involved. -r.w. On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Gary Harland wrote: > > The Washington Post reported Jan. 30th that Prince George County (where > dat?) police are collecting spit and fingerprints, not only from every > suspect they interview in connection with the rape and murder of a nurse- > administrator, but also from all 400 male hospital employees at the hospital > the victim formerly worked at. > > The spit's for DNA testing and the fingerprints are just for the helluva > it I guess. > > It's just a request mind you. If you refuse, you won't necessarily be con- > sidered a suspect but the information you supply 'would certainly be under > scrutiny' according to the Chief Thug of Prince George County. > > Oh! The 4th amendment? That dusty old thing? When the scumbags are kicking > in your door which would you rather have protecting you: a raggedy old > piece of paper or a Prince George County Mountie SWAT team in full ninja > dress and the latest high-tech law-enforcement goodies? Thought so. Cup's > at the end of the counter comrade. Have a nice day. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > foggy at netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" > "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than > make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jan 31 14:21:24 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:21:24 +0800 Subject: Feb. 8 coilumn -- GOA Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:11:43 -0700 X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:12:36 -0800 To: cathy at engr.colostate.edu From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Feb. 8 coilumn -- GOA Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/431 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED FEB. 8, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Second Amendment: changing of the guard Last time, we were discussing the "take-the-best-available-compromise," defeatist attitude of the nation's largest gun control organization, the National Rifle Association. Their lighter, leaner competition for gun owner support, Gun Owners of America, prefers a more high-pressure approach, putting the fire to the feet of lawmakers to make sure they know that a vote against gun rights will cost them their next election ... just as Bill Clinton acknowledged that the gun rights vote cost the Democratic Party its control of Congress in 1994. In a 1968 edition of the NRA's magazine, "The American Rifleman," Associate Editor Alan C. Webber responded to then-timely criticism by U.S. Sen. Robert Kennedy, D-N.Y., who said "I think it is a terrible indictment of the National Rifle Association that they haven't supported any legislation to ban and control the misuse of rifles and pistols in this country." To this, Mr. Webber reports NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth responded with a ringing endorsement of the 1968 Gun Control Act. "The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871," Mr. Orth proclaimed. "The duty of Congress is clear. It should act now to pass legislation that will keep undesirables, including criminals, drug addicts and persons adjudged mentally irresponsible or alcoholic, or juveniles, from obtaining firearms through the mails." One will remember that the way the 1968 law accomplished that, was by banning EVERYONE but an ever-shrinking pool of federally licensed gun dealers from "obtaining firearms through the mails"! Sort of like "getting drunks off the road," by banning cars and trucks! "The NRA position, as stated by Orth, emphasizes that the NRA has consistently supported gun legislation which it feels would penalize misuse of guns, without harassing law-abiding hunters, target shooters and collectors," concludes editor Webber. What an interesting list. Do you see "militiamen" in there? I don't. Does the Second Amendment say anything about duck-hunting? The Brits, who have just finished banning all private ownership of handguns, insist THEY still protect the "rights of law-abiding hunters, target shooters, and collectors," too. If you have an English country estate, you can still own a richly-engraved, $5,000 bird gun. If you like to target shoot, you may fire pellet guns or even .22s at your registered club ... so long as you leave the weapon locked up there when you go home. And "collectors" are still presumably welcome to own as many guns as they want ... from the flintlock era or earlier. Gee, that'll put them in great shape the next time the Germans or French come storming the beaches. Which is precisely why OUR Second Amendment talks exclusively about the needs of "the militia." Meantime, Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agents holding a panel discussion for an audience of mostly gun store owners at this week's SHOT Outdoor Trades show, here in Las Vegas, declared that the way they interpret the "permanent replacement Brady Bill" due to go into effect in November of 1998 -- the one the NRA favors due to its promised "insta-Check" capability -- will call for a "Brady check" and permanent record of every LONG GUN purchase, as well. The NRA operates, in effect, as nothing but a public relations outreach arm for the Republican Party, tasked to convince gun rights advocates that the GOP is their only hope. But Newt Gingrich promised us that if only we would elect a GOP majority to Congress there would be "no more gun control passed" on his watch, didn't he? Mind you, that's a pretty modest promise, compared to the Libertarian Party platform plank on guns, which calls for ALL existing gun control laws to be immediately REPEALED. But not only have Mr. Gingrich's Republicans failed to repeal the major federal gun control acts of 1933 and 1968, not only have they failed to repeal the Brady Bill and the Feinstein-Schumer "assault weapons ban" (as they promised), but they actually ENACTED the so-called Anti-Terrorism Bill with the Lautenberg Amendment, which retroactively strips police and many other citizens of their gun rights based on any prior domestic misdemeanor convictions (shouting at your kids). And then, not satisfied, they went on to pass the "Gun Free School Zone Act" ... TWICE! Putting him to the test of fire, I asked Larry Pratt of GOA last week whether he would favor allowing a 17-year-old girl to walk into a hardware store, buy and take home a belt-fed .30-caliber machine gun, without signing her name, showing any ID, or applying for any kind of government "permit." "Well, that's the way it would have been in 1933, before the National Firearms Act, wouldn't it?" he asked. "Is that a yes?" I asked back. Mr. Pratt, in front of a sizeable public gathering at the San Remo Hotel and Casino, said "Yes." And that's why I think we're about to see a changing of the guard when it comes to gun-rights lobbying, from the arthritic and the defeated, to the aggressive, the fearless, and the principled. Congressman Ron Paul, R-Tex., has called Gun Owners of America "the only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington." With a fraction of the NRA's manpower, membership or budget, GOA has defeated powerful state legislative committee chairmen (in Ohio) who were foolish enough to support more gun control, and has helped elect congressmen like Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland, currently sponsor of HR27, the Citizens Self-Defense Act, which would "protect the right to obtain ... and to use firearms in defense of self, family or home." Unless they change their stripes with fearsome speed, I fear the NRA and their hog-trough affiliate, the Republican Party as we've known it, are headed for the elephant's graveyard, and soon. On the other hand, if Gun Owners of America sold stock, I'd be buying. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jan 31 14:21:54 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:21:54 +0800 Subject: Feb. 6 column -- Where to start Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:08:34 -0700 X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:09:30 -0800 To: cathy at engr.colostate.edu From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Feb. 6 column -- Where to start Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/430 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED FEB. 6, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Getting started S.J. writes from Johns Hopkins: "Vin -- I have found and enjoyed your web page (http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/). I am also recently reading David Boaz's book "Libertarianism: A Primer." I have been accused by professors of being a Libertarian. I really was not sure what one was. Thus my recent readings. I have many questions and no one to dialogue with. If you have time, could you tell me places I may check here in Washington D.C. ..." Egon, whose locale I don't know, similarly inquires: "... Incidently, I both enjoy and dread (reading your columns.) So few people realize how this country was intended. There is no other country in which the citizens are "sovereign," with all the rights of a king reserved to the people. But at the same time, the government has craftily changed things around. And so, the real question: Can you point me in a direction to information about how to help address these issues, or people to talk to about them?" # # # Since informing others must always start with informing ourselves, I suggested that both fellows they lay hands on a couple of recent catalogs from Laissez Faire Books, 938 Howard St., Suite 202, San Francisco 94103; tel. 415-541-9780; e-mail orders to orders at laissezfaire.org. Beginners may want to look for Thomas Szasz, Burton Folsom, Albert J. Nock, John Taylor Gatto, and Ayn Rand. Laissez Faire now lists L. Neil Smith's "Bretta Martin," which is good, but not "Pallas," which would be better. Also missing are John Ross' "Unintended Consequences" (Accuracy Press) and Claire Wolfe's "101 Things to Do Till the Revolution" (Loompanics.) It's also worth getting on the mailing list of the Cato Institute, at 100 Mass. Ave. NW, in Washington D.C., 20001 (tel. 202-842-0200), and of Bumper Hornberger's Future of Freedom Foundation (e-mail FFFVA at compuserve.com), in Northern Virginia. The Ludwig von mises Institute (owner-misesmail at colossus.net), tel. 334-844-2500 puts out some nifty economic publications, and for e-mail on jury rights issues you can't beat the Jury Rights Project, e-mail jrights at levellers.org; web page www.lrt.org/jrp.homepage.htm. Leading the new battle against the national ID card is the Coalition to Repeal the Fingerprints Law, Suite 133, 5446 Peachtree Industrial Blvd., Atlanta 30341; voice mail 404-250-8105; web site www.atlantainfoguide.com/repeal/. I seem to have fallen out of touch with the Separation of School and State Alliance, based in California; maybe they'll send me some up-to-date contact information. President Brenda Grantland tells me the group Forfeiture Endangers American Rights has recently opened an office in D.C., and may be in a position to welcome volunteer help as well as contributions. Contact Interim Director Tom Gordon at the F.E.A.R. Foundation, P.O. Box 15421 Washington, D.C. 20003; tel. 202-546-4381, or toll free at 1-888-FEAR-001; e-mail TomGordon at fear.org; web site http://www.fear.org. Other groups worth contacting for information -- and supporting with donations or volunteer help -- include the Fully-Informed Jury Association at Box 59, Helmville, Montana 59843, tel. 406-793-5550, and Aaron Zelman's Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, 2874 S. Wentworth Ave., Milwaukee, Wisc. 53207, tel. 414-769-0760 (web site http://www.JPFO.org; e-mail Against-Genocide at JPFO.org.) JPFO welcomes "righteous goyim," or non-Jews, and in fact never even asks prospective members their religion. I used to think JPFO was the only truly principled gun-rights organization in the nation, holding that ANY "gun control" is an inevitable precursor to new genocides. I am now, finally, ready to submit that there are two. I have been watching for some years the development of Larry Pratt's Gun Owners of America, based at 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, Va. 22151; tel. 703-321-8585; web site http://www.gunowners.org; e-mail goaslad at aol.com. Folks have always called GOA "the other gun group," in deference to the massive and cholesterol-clogged National Rifle Association. Enemies of freedom always enjoy caricaturing ther NRA as a bunch of buck-toothed hunters in plaid shirts, blasting away at Bambi with a bazooka. But let me make a fearless prediction right here: as the lean little GOA strides onto their battlefield like an adolescent saber-tooth, the forces of victim disarmament are going to start waxing reminiscent about the warm, happy days when their only "opposition" was that walnut-brained brontosaurus, the NRA. The NRA's lobbying philosophy has long been to ridicule Libertarians or Independents who may be TRUE devotees of our Second Amendment rights, instead cynically endorsing and even funding the "lesser of two evils" among the two candidates representing the Republicrat and Demopublican branches of the Big Government Party. This NRA spending and lobbying philosophy is all about "buying access," but as Mr. Pratt of GOA says, "It's all based on a defeatist attitude. They think we've lost, that we have a bad bargaining position, so all we can do is make the best deal we can with this tyrant." Recently, NRA lobbyists have even twisted arms in state legislatures around the nation to INCREASE the cost and "training" rigmarole required to lay hands of a state "concealed carry permit" ... the better to insure the standards are the same nationwide. GOA thinks permit requirements should be identical in every state, too ... identical to the current law in Vermont, which requires no permit for concealed carry, at all, and which has "the lowest murder rate in the country," smiles Mr. Pratt. "But the 'access' lobbyists, if their approach was right, why do we keep losing ground?" Pratt asked his enthusiastic Las Vegas crowd. Next time: The GOA plays hardball. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From sales at dso.com Sat Jan 31 14:48:22 1998 From: sales at dso.com (Sources Briefings & eJOURNAL, DSO Inc.) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:48:22 +0800 Subject: DEBATE IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY Message-ID: ********IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS MAILING LIST, PLEASE REPLY WITH SUBJECT: "REMOVE"************ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: INFORMATION CONTACT:Cynthia Johnston 415 731-1905, pr at dso.com REPORT IN SOURCES BRIEFINGS STIRS HEATED DEBATE IN INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY San Francisco, CA. SOURCES BRIEFINGS, a newsletter delivering raw intelligence, reported recently that CIA Inspector General Fredrick Hitz has declared open source intelligence �a waste of time and money� -- and hit a raw nerve in the intelligence community. The CIA Inspector General, speaking about the CIA's role in today�s intelligence structure, admitted that he �feels threatened by the presence of those in private industry and in government who are pursuing intelligence in new ways. He says that private industry is actually ahead of the CIA in technologies such as satellite imaging and encryption,� according to the article in the current issue of SOURCES BRIEFINGS (www.dso.com). �Even though Hitz says he finds the new computer encryption and information systems �incredibly terrifying,� he dismisses open source intelligence, inside and outside of the government agencies, as merely �a collection of newspaper stories� on various issues...� SOURCES BRIEFINGS subscribers in the intelligence community were quick to challenge Hitz� assertions. A senior Pentagon official with access to the Secretary of Defense stated, �Mr. Hitz may have revealed more than he intended regarding the mindset that often holds the Intelligence Community (IC) hostage. Secrets can be addictive and like potato chips it is hard just to have one. It is easy to binge on them and end up without a well balanced intelligence diet. The IC gets addicted to its own secrets and [gets] fat on �classified� self-importance.� Robert Steele, CEO of Open Source Solutions Inc., joined the battle saying, �We are at a very important cross-roads in the history and maturity of the U.S. intelligence community... The Commission on Intelligence found that its access to open sources is �severely deficient� and should be a top priority... �Open sources are of proven value in tip-off, in guiding secret collection, in placing secret information in context, and in providing cover for secretly obtained information which must be shared with coalition partners to whom secret sources and methods cannot or should not be revealed.� An NSA officer on loan to the military said, �This guy's parochial, narrow-minded, elitist thinking (�Leave it to the patrician professionals, you fumbling amateurs�) perfectly embodies what is, and has for a long time, been wrong with the CIA. I suspect that one reason for this gentleman's self-admitted fear is that the CIA doesn't really have that many truly clandestine sources, and he's afraid people will learn just how much OSINT is a better value for dollars expended.� Responses to Hitz� remarks continue to pour in to SOURCES and the editors are preparing to devote space exclusively to this debate. A sample of SOURCES BRIEFINGS, as well as subscription information can be obtained online at http://www.dso.com or by calling 1-888-8-DSO-COM (1-888-8-376-266). For further information, or to set up interviews with SOURCES� seasoned investigative journalists, intelligence experts and banking specialists, please contact Cynthia Johnston at 415 731-1905 or at pr at dso.com. ### From xxx4free at xxxpics.org Sat Jan 31 17:19:03 1998 From: xxx4free at xxxpics.org (xxx4free at xxxpics.org) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:19:03 +0800 Subject: ONLY READ IF INTERESTED IN FREE PORN, OTHERWISE DELETE Message-ID: <84675145_40932584> Hi there! want free porn? how about my nude pic? want pics that are updated every day? Or how about membership to XXX Adult sites, where the bill is payed by us?!? How about FREE live sex? If you do then visit http://www.xxxpics.org for the BEST xxx pics, updated daily, LIVE SEX, AVIs, MPEGS, and more!!!!! So hurry! and visit http://www.xxxpics.org Thank you for your time. From foggy at gilligan.netisle.net Sat Jan 31 21:31:47 1998 From: foggy at gilligan.netisle.net (Gary Harland) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:31:47 +0800 Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker Message-ID: Tim May responded on Sat. January 31, 1998.... >>- aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to >>languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all >>human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the >>effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? >> > "All crypto is economics." One doesn't have to jump to theoretical > mumbo > jumbo about a putative "identical fundamental syntax" to know that the > Navajo code talkers were not using an unbreakable system. If there is a universal syntax, you could very quickly whip up a framework for the language involved and at least be able to identify nouns, verbs, etc. Then with each commun- ication expand and specify. I don't know if that's possible and therefore don't know if it's 'theoretical mumbo-jumbo'. It doesn't sound too far-fetched but then I'm an optomistic kinda guy eh. > But what mattered is that, for the level of security needed on the > battlefield, the system was "essentially secure" against Japanese > translation. Sure, in time the Japanese could have found some experts > on > Navajo, could have trained their own code talker translators, etc. But > they > didn't have this time. (And if we posit "enough time," then the U.S. > military would have had enough time to drop the Navajo code talkers > and > replace them with Ebonics code talkers. Dat be da jive, mo fo.) We had plenty of time in Somalia to capture 'Warlord' Aidide. Not only did we fail to capture him, he rubbed it in with a daily radio program. We couldn't find the ever-moving trans- mitter let alone close it down. I well remember our top Butt Sniffer in Somalia royally pissed off on TV vowing that we'd throw everything we had into the hunt and bring him to justice. Aidide was still standing there, flipping us The Bird as we left. My impression was that the Somalies 'under-teched' us. Being dirt-poor must have made that an easy decision. But they executed it very well. The most powerful, technologically soph- isticated military machine in human history found itself groping stupidly in the dark when up against a non-tech foe. We're obviously utterlly and completely dependent on our toys. Take our batteries away and we're S.O.L. > "All crypto is economics." > > --Tim May Hmmm...There it is again. It's interesting but a bit ambiguous. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy at netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Sat Jan 31 21:52:47 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:52:47 +0800 Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:26 PM -0800 1/31/98, Gary Harland wrote: > If there is a universal syntax, you could very quickly > whip up a framework for the language involved and at least > be able to identify nouns, verbs, etc. Then with each commun- > ication expand and specify. I don't know if that's possible > and therefore don't know if it's 'theoretical mumbo-jumbo'. If you say so... > We had plenty of time in Somalia to capture 'Warlord' Aidide. > Not only did we fail to capture him, he rubbed it in with a > daily radio program. We couldn't find the ever-moving trans- > mitter let alone close it down. I well remember our top Butt > Sniffer in Somalia royally pissed off on TV vowing that we'd ???? >> "All crypto is economics." >> >> --Tim May > Hmmm...There it is again. It's interesting but a bit ambiguous. I apologize to the Cypherpunks for responding seriously to Gary Harland. I should've waited to see a few more of his posts, to figure out whether he's a nitwit or is just trolling. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From frantz at netcom.com Sat Jan 31 22:14:13 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:14:13 +0800 Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:29 AM -0800 1/31/98, Tim May wrote: >But what mattered is that, for the level of security needed on the >battlefield, the system was "essentially secure" against Japanese >translation. Sure, in time the Japanese could have found some experts on >Navajo, could have trained their own code talker translators, etc. But they >didn't have this time. (And if we posit "enough time," then the U.S. >military would have had enough time to drop the Navajo code talkers and >replace them with Ebonics code talkers. Dat be da jive, mo fo.) When I was in China, I noted that French accented English was "essentially secure" against understanding by our Chinese hosts. We Americans did a lot of English to English translation on that trip. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Market research shows the | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | average customer has one | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | teat and one ball. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From kelsey at plnet.net Sat Jan 31 23:11:34 1998 From: kelsey at plnet.net (John Kelsey) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:11:34 +0800 Subject: Chaining ciphers Message-ID: <199802010705.BAA20059@email.plnet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: Cypherpunks ## Date: 01/30/98 ## Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers ] >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 09:47:52 PST >From: jim at mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) >Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers >Yes, that's definitely better for high-confidence long-term >archival stuff than relying on one cipher. Carl Ellison's >suggestion was DES | tran | nDES | tran | DES, where "tran" >is an unkeyed large-block transposition. I believe Dave Wagner broke this, and posted his attack to cypherpunks, a few months ago; if I recall correctly, his attack reduced the final security of this to that of a little more than one DES operation. (The attack worked when n=1.) This reenforces what we already knew: When you chain multiple encryption algorithms, you can prove that your result is no *weaker* than any one of those algorithms, but that doesn't mean it's any *stronger* than the strongest of them. > Jim Gillogly > Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:22 > 12.19.4.15.18, 9 Edznab 16 Muan, Third Lord of Night - --John Kelsey, kelsey at counterpane.com / kelsey at plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNNQz8yZv+/Ry/LrBAQGuAQP/fbUH4GeY5MJ9McLcgt6siGofTd9ZskYz vl1DBVv3TNbOhdoSU4MH8OesCxckc+7vHbBHawxP/FzeDysAGrtVnjvAsyKKglAL aIVQp3qQlCpbtEgKj9z5AZZbilipnpB+/2X6BSaradfreCRUk7N6sKcigITD2HSE KREbqrftNK4= =wWQS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----