From Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com Tue Dec 1 07:44:26 1998 From: Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com (Marita Näsman-Repo) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:44:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN SERVICES FOR THE NEXT MILLENIUM Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981201174413.00910940@smtp.datafellows.com> Press Release For immediate release DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN SERVICES FOR THE NEXT MILLENIUM Espoo, Finland, December 1, 1998 -- Data Fellows, the leading global security solutions vendor, and Sonera, the leading Finnish telecommunications service provider, have announced a partnership to create next-generation Intranet and extranet services. The scope of the partnership is to develop a secure IP service platform by combining Sonera's leading-edge telecommunications services with Data Fellows' award-winning secure VPN and anti-virus products. "Security is not a simple issue. We see leading telecommunications service providers in a key position to help corporate customers reap the benefits of the Internet without the inherent risks," says Risto Siilasmaa, CEO of Data Fellows. "Over the years, Sonera has always paved the way with innovative telecommunications services. Well-managed strong security is the logical next step." "Our key challenges are the increasing demand for mobility and the increasing use of extranets between companies," says Jukka T Leinonen, Managing Director of Sonera Solutions. "Managed IP-based virtual private networks with a functioning Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) and strong security constitute the foundation for future corporate information systems. Data Fellows can provide us with standards-based, proven security with globally available strong encryption." The first products and services will be announced early next year. Data Fellows' groundbreaking F-Secure products provide a unique combination of globally available strong encryption, revolutionary anti-virus software and policy based management. Data Fellows products are relied on by the world's largest industrial corporations, best-known telecommunications companies and major airlines, several European governments, post offices and defence forces as well as several of the world's largest banks. Data Fellows was selected one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world by Red Herring magazine in September 1998. Sonera Ltd is Finland's leading telecommunications company, with subsidiaries and associated companies in 14 countries. Internationally, Sonera is a forerunner in the rapidly growing field of mobile, data, and media communications. In 1997, Sonera's net sales amounted to FIM 8 billion, and operating profit was FIM 1.7 billion. The Group employs 8,200 people. For more information, please contact USA: Data Fellows Inc. Mr. Pirkka Palomaki, Product Manager Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701 E-mail: Pirkka.Palomaki at DataFellows.com Europe: Data Fellows Oy Mr. Jukka Kotovirta, Director, Service Provider Business Unit PL 24 FIN-02231 ESPOO Tel. +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599 E-mail: Jukka.Kotovirta at DataFellows.com or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com Sonera Solutions Ltd. Mr. Timo Korpela, Head of Product Development Tel. +358 2040 63296, fax. +358 2040 64652 E-mail: Timo.Korpela at sonera.net -- Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com, World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com From Opencity at aol.com Tue Dec 1 07:51:33 1998 From: Opencity at aol.com (Opencity at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:51:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... Message-ID: <83cc5099.3664104d@aol.com> Hi Mimmi Okay...this can be distributed as of today? Thanks phil From roch at liberation.fr Tue Dec 1 08:06:30 1998 From: roch at liberation.fr (Thierry Roch) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:06:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour Message-ID: Ici tout va bien, merci. On esp�re qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour Salut ________________________________________ roch at liberation.fr Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24 Informatique Lib�ration http://www.liberation.fr From falconinc at earthlink.net Tue Dec 1 08:18:32 1998 From: falconinc at earthlink.net (falcon falcon) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:18:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <366416FB.1ADD27A6@earthlink.net> please remove my name from your email list. Thierry Roch wrote: > Ici tout va bien, merci. > > On esp�re qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour > Salut > ________________________________________ > roch at liberation.fr > Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24 > Informatique Lib�ration http://www.liberation.fr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00002.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2718 bytes Desc: "S/MIME Cryptographic Signature" URL: From falconinc at earthlink.net Tue Dec 1 08:20:20 1998 From: falconinc at earthlink.net (falcon falcon) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:20:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... In-Reply-To: <83cc5099.3664104d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3664173D.B800682E@earthlink.net> Please remove my name from your email list. Opencity at aol.com wrote: > Hi Mimmi > > Okay...this can be distributed as of today? > > Thanks > phil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00003.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2718 bytes Desc: "S/MIME Cryptographic Signature" URL: From eschuman at cmp.com Tue Dec 1 08:22:24 1998 From: eschuman at cmp.com (eschuman at cmp.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:22:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... Message-ID: <852566CD.0059DBF4.00@NotesSMTP-01.cmp.com> Same request. May I be removed from this list as well? falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com cc: bcc: Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... Please remove my name from your email list. Opencity at aol.com wrote: > Hi Mimmi > > Okay...this can be distributed as of today? > > Thanks > phil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00004.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2718 bytes Desc: "smime.p7s" URL: From Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com Tue Dec 1 08:25:43 1998 From: Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com (Ayoub, Mark (CAP, FLEET)) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:25:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE2@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com> Please do not click on REPLY ALL, click on REPLY only, otherwise EVERYBODY on the mailing list receives a copy of your message. -----Original Message----- From: falcon falcon [mailto:falconinc at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:19 AM To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com Subject: Re: bonjour please remove my name from your email list. Thierry Roch wrote: > Ici tout va bien, merci. > > On esp�re qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour > Salut > ________________________________________ > roch at liberation.fr > Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24 > Informatique Lib�ration http://www.liberation.fr From mad at mm-croy.mottmac.com Tue Dec 1 08:31:25 1998 From: mad at mm-croy.mottmac.com (Mark Denny) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:31:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATESECURE VPN S... In-Reply-To: <852566CD%.0059DBF4.00@smtp-gate.mottmac.com> Message-ID: <00444336010C01A0@smtp-gate.mottmac.com> ===== Original Message from PRESS-EN @ INTERNET {press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com} at 1/12/98 16:21 >Same request. May I be removed from this list as well? > > > > >falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM > >Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com > >To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com >cc: >bcc: Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes >Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE > SECURE VPN S... > > > > >Please remove my name from your email list. > > >Opencity at aol.com wrote: > >> Hi Mimmi >> >> Okay...this can be distributed as of today? >> >> Thanks >> phil ===== Comments by MAD at MM-CROY (Mark Denny) at 1/12/98 16:27 Could you please stop sending me your emails. I think that some thing has gone wrong with your server. Thanks. Mark. From "dan_verton" at fcw.com Tue Dec 1 08:37:13 1998 From: "dan_verton" at fcw.com ("dan_verton" at fcw.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:37:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour Message-ID: <852566CD.005B6DC4.00@zeus.fcw.com> this is not my list and I want off as well. falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:19:07 AM Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com cc: (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW) Subject: Re: bonjour please remove my name from your email list. Thierry Roch wrote: > Ici tout va bien, merci. > > On esp �re qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour > Salut > ________________________________________ > roch at liberation.fr > Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24 > Informatique Lib�ration http://www.liberation.fr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00005.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2718 bytes Desc: "smime.p7s" URL: From Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com Tue Dec 1 08:40:23 1998 From: Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com (Ayoub, Mark (CAP, FLEET)) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:40:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATESECURE VPN S... Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE3@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com> DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL, if you need to send an email send it to mailto:Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com. Otherwise everybody on the mailing list receive your message. Mark Ayoub GECFS PC Support -----Original Message----- From: Mark Denny [mailto:mad at mm-croy.mottmac.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:28 AM To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com Subject: RE: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATESECURE VPN S... ===== Original Message from PRESS-EN @ INTERNET {press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com} at 1/12/98 16:21 >Same request. May I be removed from this list as well? > > > > >falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM > >Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com > >To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com >cc: >bcc: Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes >Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE > SECURE VPN S... > > > > >Please remove my name from your email list. > > >Opencity at aol.com wrote: > >> Hi Mimmi >> >> Okay...this can be distributed as of today? >> >> Thanks >> phil ===== Comments by MAD at MM-CROY (Mark Denny) at 1/12/98 16:27 Could you please stop sending me your emails. I think that some thing has gone wrong with your server. Thanks. Mark. From "dan_verton" at fcw.com Tue Dec 1 08:42:16 1998 From: "dan_verton" at fcw.com ("dan_verton" at fcw.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:42:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... Message-ID: <852566CD.005B872C.00@zeus.fcw.com> please remove my name from the cc address when you send this... I'm on this thing as well eschuman at cmp.com on 12/01/98 11:21:21 AM Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com cc: (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW) Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... Same request. May I be removed from this list as well? falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com cc: bcc: Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S... Please remove my name from your email list. Opencity at aol.com wrote: > Hi Mimmi > > Okay...this can be distributed as of today? > > Thanks > phil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00006.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2718 bytes Desc: "smime.p7s" URL: From Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com Tue Dec 1 08:47:09 1998 From: Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com (Ayoub, Mark (CAP, FLEET)) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:47:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE6@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com> DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL, if you need to send an email send it to mailto:Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com. Otherwise everybody on the mailing list receive your message. Mark Ayoub GECFS PC Support -----Original Message----- From: SimpleNet Informatica LTDA [mailto:dalmo at simp.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:35 AM To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com Subject: Re: bonjour Remove me too !!!!!!!!!!!!!! At 08:19 AM 12/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >please remove my name from your email list. > >Thierry Roch wrote: > >> Ici tout va bien, merci. >> >> On esp�re qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour >> Salut >> ________________________________________ >> roch at liberation.fr >> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24 >> Informatique Lib�ration http://www.liberation.fr > > >Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" >Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature > >Attachment Converted: c:\internet\eudora\attach\smime10.p7s > +===================================================+ SimpleNet Informatica LTDA - mailto:simp at simp.net Tel/Fax : (+55-21)509-0944 http://www.simp.net/ Rio de Janeiro - Brazil 3com Partner - Cyclades Reseller - Wingate Reseller Attachmate Premium Partner Medallion - SCO Reseller +===================================================+ Visite o Rio de Janeiro : http://www.guiario.com.br Sinalizando o Brasil em : http://www.signbrazil.com From Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com Tue Dec 1 08:49:31 1998 From: Mark.Ayoub at fleet.gecapital.com (Ayoub, Mark (CAP, FLEET)) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:49:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE5@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com> DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL, if you need to send an email send it to mailto:Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com. Otherwise everybody on the mailing list receive your message. Mark Ayoub GECFS PC Support -----Original Message----- From: "dan_verton"@fcw.com [mailto:"dan_verton"@fcw.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:39 AM To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com Subject: Re: bonjour this is not my list and I want off as well. falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:19:07 AM Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com cc: (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW) Subject: Re: bonjour please remove my name from your email list. Thierry Roch wrote: > Ici tout va bien, merci. > > On esp From mad at mm-croy.mottmac.com Tue Dec 1 08:52:04 1998 From: mad at mm-croy.mottmac.com (Mark Denny) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:52:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: bonjour In-Reply-To: <852566CD%.005B6DC4.00@smtp-gate.mottmac.com> Message-ID: <04444336010C01A0@smtp-gate.mottmac.com> ===== Original Message from PRESS-EN @ INTERNET {press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com} at 1/12/98 16:38 >this is not my list and I want off as well. > > > > >falcon falcon on 12/01/98 11:19:07 AM > >Please respond to press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com > >To: press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com >cc: (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW) >Subject: Re: bonjour > > > > >please remove my name from your email list. > >Thierry Roch wrote: > >> Ici tout va bien, merci. >> >> On esp >�re qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour >> Salut >> ________________________________________ >> roch at liberation.fr >> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24 >> Informatique Lib�ration http://www.liberation.fr ===== Comments by MAD at MM-CROY (Mark Denny) at 1/12/98 16:43 Please remove me. Mark. Mott MacDonald Limited, Registered in England No. 1243967 Registered office St. Anne House, 20-26 Wellesley road, Croydon CR9 2UL Tel: +44 (0) 181-774 2000 Fax: +44 (0) 181-681 5706 Email Mad at mm-croy.mottmac.com From chrisharwig at hetnet.nl Tue Dec 1 09:16:33 1998 From: chrisharwig at hetnet.nl (kryz) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:16:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fw: 1998-11-30 Memorandum to Department Heads on Electronic Commerce In-Reply-To: <19981130204732.0.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov> Message-ID: ---------- | Date: maandag 30 november 1998 19:47:00 | From: The White House | To: Public-Distribution at pub.pub.whitehouse.gov | Subject: 1998-11-30 Memorandum to Department Heads on Electronic Commerce | | | THE WHITE HOUSE | | Office of the Press Secretary | ________________________________________________________________________ | For Immediate Release November 30, 1998 | | | | November 30, 1998 | | | | MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES | | SUBJECT: Successes and Further Work on Electronic Commerce | | | The Internet and electronic commerce have the potential to | transform the world economy. The United States Government is committed | to a market-driven policy architecture that will allow the new digital | economy to flourish while at the same time protecting citizens' rights | and freedoms. | | Today my Administration has released a report that details the | significant progress made on the implementation of my Directive on | Electronic Commerce of July 1, 1997, and its accompanying policy | statement, "A Framework for Global Electronic Commerce." The electronic | commerce working group that has coordinated the United States | Government's electronic commerce strategy has accomplished a great deal From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Tue Dec 1 00:22:45 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:22:45 +0800 Subject: somebody clue this person in please! Message-ID: Ken Williams wrote: >i'm laughing too damned hard to do it myself. >In a message dated 11/30/98 10:15:50 AM EST, jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu writes: > >> Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov > >I looked around there site and couldnt find anything about geting a e-mail >could you please be more specific. Why do you find this such a surprise? This is typical behavior for AOLholes. We've all tried for years to clue such lamers in, and all we've ever gotten in return are more "solicited" spam, and more unsolicited spam, and it's worse because they're no longer concentrated at one site. From carolann at censored.org Tue Dec 1 00:54:21 1998 From: carolann at censored.org (Carol Anne Cypherpunk) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:54:21 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981201022809.00743bf4@pop.primenet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm watching Headline News, and they are reporting that "now", under new provisions in the Brady Bill, and 'instant' background check is being made. This even is for simple rifles and shotguns. Just think, soon there might be 'instant' background checks, even just to use simple 56 bit DES. Or somewhere lurking around in your browser code, a teeny tiny program that sends a cookie to the NSA, FBI, etc every time you use crypto. Who knows, it's probably there already. Or a realtime NCIS check to buy a copy of PGP! Wild! cab8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0 Comment: PGP 6.0 is the "The Living End". iQA/AwUBNmOomDiM2656VXArEQLQRQCgg3l0PO8DOzkj/7McAUI8gQSC03cAnRhk AybC39FkOKoV7ZQUvJcuFTT8 =9sxR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Member Internet Society - Certified Mining Co. Guide - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann at censored.org 206.165.50.96 http://www.primenet.com/~carolab http://www.ozones.com/~drozone - The Cyberdoc *********************************************************************** Will lobby Congress for Food & Expenses!!! From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 1 01:10:12 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:10:12 +0800 Subject: SternFUD on RSA In-Reply-To: <199812010235.UAA19311@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <3663AB6D.7ABCE704@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Eric Cordian wrote: > > 3. The court didn't uphold a patent on applied math; it upheld a > > process patent on a crypto system that, among other things, uses > > applied math. So does almost any engineering design. > > There is a fundamental difference between a physical machine whose > design required the use of mathematics, and an abstract mathematical > transformation, which may exist only in an instance of some computer > program performing a certain task. I am not taking part in this debate but simply like to point to the fact that the creteria of what is patentable appear to be undergoing some change. One illustrative example is that DNA sequences can currently be patented as far as I know. M. K. Shen From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 1 03:32:40 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:32:40 +0800 Subject: Jim Bell Update Message-ID: <199812011101.GAA14156@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Forward No. 1 (11/30/98): Jim has been back in the Seattle/Tacoma jail for about a week & 1/2, after a stop-over in Oklahoma City. Not doing much, but is glad to be back because he likes the food better and he has things to do, unlike in Springfield. He doesn't know what the schedule is for his stay at this point, except that there is an attempt to impose more time to his sentence, which he says by the time they accomplish anything in court he will have fulfilled anyway. He requests once again that anyone who would like to help him research the names/addresses of people he thinks are involved in the surveillance efforts against him, to please contact him. His address again is: James Bell #26906086 Federal Detention Center P.O. Box 68976 Seattle WA 98168 ---------- Forward No. 2 (11/30/98): After spending several weeks in Oklahoma, then several more in Springfield, MO, a shrink interviewed Jim for a total of six hours, and said he could find nothing wrong that they could help with. After several more weeks in Springfield, it was back to Oklahoma, for a couple more weeks, and now he is finally back at Sea-Tac. He reports that the prosecutor is asking for 9 months for violation of parole, which would mean Jim might be released in 3 months. He is on Prozac and seems in pretty good spirits. Opinions seem unchanged. ---------- From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 1 03:32:49 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:32:49 +0800 Subject: CJ Update Message-ID: <199812011102.GAA10440@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Forward (11/26/98): They moved CJ from Springfield on the 18th. He is in Oklahoma City awaiting movement supposedly next week. I talked with him and he sounded okay. He would like to receive copies of what has been written and posted about him. He doen't know where he is going. His lawyer should find out next week. From 4u00 at 321media.com Tue Dec 1 19:54:16 1998 From: 4u00 at 321media.com (Bill) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:54:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Process Serving Court Filing Searches Message-ID: <199812020356.MAA13831@sgu-ns1.sg-u.ac.jp> http://www.select-document.com /////////////////////////////////////////////////// To be removed from future mailings, please send an email to mailto:4lemy at lycosmail.com?subject=remove /////////////////////////////////////////////////// From cabgirly333 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 1 21:12:50 1998 From: cabgirly333 at hotmail.com (cabgirly333 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:12:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Build Your Own Cable TV Descrambler for less than $9.99. Message-ID: <9812020512.AB02555@chrivb01.cch.com> Cable Television Descrambler - Easy To Make ! Build your own Cable Television Descrambler with ONLY 7 parts from Radio Shack for UNDER $10.00. (don't hit reply, please check bottom of message for more references) --------------------- (Last minute update: "I've seen my letter and instructions sent by individuals that besides violating copy-right laws, are neither responding to the customer nor providing the original, complete set of plans and instructions. Please be advised you are risking your money and patience by ordering from individuals who know nothing regarding this tech/electrical matter" --Raul Mendez) Build your own Cable Television Descrambler with ONLY 7 parts from Radio Shack for UNDER $10.00. REQUIRED SUPPLIES: ================== 1 - Radio Shack mini-box (part #270-235) 1 - < watt resistor. 2.2k-2.4k ohm (part #271-1325) 1 - 75pf-100pf variable capacitor (special order) 2 - F61A chassis-type connectors (part #278-212) 12" - No. 12 solid copper wire 12" - RG59 coaxial cable Tools required: screwdriver & drill. Soldering gun & solder (optional). Get ALL the Premium Movie Channels, Pay per View and Adult Entertainment Channels for... FREE, FREE, FREE !!! Now, if I have your attention... let me tell you how this fantastic opportunity came about. My name is Raul. I live in New York City, New York. I have season tickets to our citys hockey team. I invited a friend of mine to one of the games this last October. He said, "Id love to go if you can have me back home by 10:00 p.m." I told him that some games run just past 10:00 p.m. and would he mind we stay if the game was close. His response was, "No, tonight is the Mike Tyson - Evander Holyfield boxing match and I have it on pay per view" I said, "do you mind if I watch the fight with you"? He said, "sure, no problem". So we go watch this great fight on cable pay per view and we are the only two guys at my friends house. After the fight (since it was so good) I offered to pay half of the cost for the fight. My friends answer was, "no, no, thats not necessary... I got the fight for FREE!". I said to him, "for free, dont those fights cost around $40.00 a pop?" He told me, "yes, they do, but I bought a cable descrambler box from an acquaintance of mine for $300.00". He further explained that this "little black box" gets ALL the pay per view events available! It also tunes in ALL the premium movie channels and ALL the adult entertainment channels. My response (without hesitation) was, "I gotta have one!" "$300.00, no problem where do I pay !!!" Im serious, I was excited. Lifetime premium movie channels, pay per view and adult entertainment all for a one-time fee of $300.00... no way!!! "No way" was right. The guy that sold my buddy the box was no where to be found. I was really disappointed. It was now time for desperate measures. I begged and pleaded with my friend until he agreed to let me take his box apart piece by piece to see how to make one for myself. Luckily it was very easy, if it wasnt simple I knew their was a slight chance it was not going back together so pretty. Now the rest is history... Ive got my own box which I built with my own two hands. Would you like to build one yourself ?!?! If so, would you pay $300.00. Maybe so, maybe not. Probably not, unless you saw one work first. But since that is not possible, I will sell you a complete set of instructions on how to build one yourself for a measly $9.99. However, at that price YOU MUST ALSO ENCLOSE A #10 SELF ADDRESSED STAMPED ENVELOPE WITH 55 CENTS POSTAGE AFFIXED. You might ask, is this some type of rip-off scam deal. The answer is NO! Everything has specific mechanics of how and why they do what they do. We are just used to flipping a switch or pushing a button or moving the mouse across our computer pads. It all happens because of a certain set of processes. The cable television descrambler is no different. However, for legal purposes I must add to this letter that this offer and set of instructions shall be void where prohibited by law and the assembling of parts necessary to make this "little jewel" work is for educational purposes only. To order a set of the instructions send $9.99 by cash, check or money order payable to: Raul Mendez Enterprises, 50 Lexington Av suite 209, New York city, NY 10010 I will mail your order out within 24 hours of receiving it. Further, I will give you a refund upon written request if you are unsatisfied for any reason. Happy Holidays !!! Sincerely, Raul Mendez P.S.: The use of this mini-box if you choose to go on and see if your creation works requires no alteration of your existing cable system. You simply screw it in, right behind your television. P.P.S.: Without the instructions its like figuring out how to set the clock on your VCR. With the instructions, you are guaranteed success. From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 1 07:45:02 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:45:02 +0800 Subject: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd) In-Reply-To: <366086B6.2E880D74@brd.ie> Message-ID: <199812011458.JAA13450@mail1.panix.com> At 09:22 PM 11/29/98 -0500, Bill Stewart wrote: >Yeah - it can be quite nice to do that, both for security and speed. >Hugh Daniel's done some work on making Unix run on systems with >read-only root drives - there are some SCSI drives which support >read-only mode again, and there are PCMCIA flash cards which have >write-protect switches and look like disks to the OS, >so you can set them up the way you want and then go to read-only. Unix has been ported to memory only systems including the Palm OS (using virtual drives) but you can't do much with it at this point. http://ryeham.ee.ryerson.ca/uClinux/ "The Linux/Microcontroller project is a port of the Linux 2.0 to systems without a Memory Management Unit. At present, only Motorola MC68000 derivatives are supported. The first target system to sucessfully boot is the 3Com PalmPilot with a TRG SuperPilot Board and a custom boot loader they put together specifically for the Linux/PalmPilot port. Thanks guys!" DCF From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 1 08:38:49 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:38:49 +0800 Subject: NZ or LA in Y2K Message-ID: <199812011551.QAA03245@replay.com> At 07:54 PM 11/30/98 -3000, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >But objectively, there is a large category of people who are bored >with their current lifestyle and gleefully expect a "total breakdown" >of the society so that they could shoot live man sized targets instead >of boring paper targets. > >They are likely to be disappointed by Y2K, or so I expect. (again, >my expectation that social breakdown is not likely to happen does >not preclude me from reasonable preparations) When the power goes out, the rioting and looting starts in the cities. (This isn't New Zealand, baby, this is LA) When the rioters get bored, they'll get into cars. When they run out of gas, they'll stay where they are stranded as the gas pumps don't work. Some fine huntin' then, bubba. Mr. Moisin-Nagant From schear at lvcm.com Tue Dec 1 12:17:26 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:17:26 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19981201022809.00743bf4@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >I'm watching Headline News, and they are reporting >that "now", under new provisions in the Brady Bill, >and 'instant' background check is being made. This >even is for simple rifles and shotguns. How does this affect private, that is non-dealer, gun sales (like at swap meets)? --Steve From fod at brd.ie Tue Dec 1 12:17:40 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:17:40 +0800 Subject: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19981130180002.17576.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: <36642CC3.6D70A65B@brd.ie> lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: > Most PCs today are not well balanced architecturally. They should > really have a couple hundred megabytes of memory. Memory is cheap > enough today that this can be added, but the motherboard configuration > may limit the amount. If you had this much memory, swapping to disk > would be a smaller problem. Unless you're running NT. I have a box with NT server and 256MB RAM, and I'm pretty sure about 100MB of that has never seen any data. The disk still rattles away, even though the machine is typically left switched on. For example, if you run Word, log out, then run Word again, it still seems to go for the disk. Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From declan at well.com Tue Dec 1 12:23:44 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:23:44 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19981201022809.00743bf4@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <199812011936.LAA23593@smtp.well.com> It does not affect sale of firearms by non-dealers (non-FFL holders). Look for the Clinton administration to try to change this; at a press conference today the DC reporter rat-pack was moaning about unregulated gun shows. It does affect non-sale transfers by FFLs. Per the DoJ rule: "NICS checks apply to transfers and are not limited to firearm sales." I have an article up at www.wired.com shortly about the privacy implications. -Declan At 09:40 AM 12-1-98 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 >> >>I'm watching Headline News, and they are reporting >>that "now", under new provisions in the Brady Bill, >>and 'instant' background check is being made. This >>even is for simple rifles and shotguns. > >How does this affect private, that is non-dealer, gun sales (like at swap >meets)? > >--Steve > From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Dec 1 12:29:07 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:29:07 +0800 Subject: NZ or LA in Y2K In-Reply-To: <199812011551.QAA03245@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812011651.KAA07541@manifold.algebra.com> Anonymous wrote: > At 07:54 PM 11/30/98 -3000, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > >But objectively, there is a large category of people who are bored > >with their current lifestyle and gleefully expect a "total breakdown" > >of the society so that they could shoot live man sized targets instead > >of boring paper targets. > > > >They are likely to be disappointed by Y2K, or so I expect. (again, > >my expectation that social breakdown is not likely to happen does > >not preclude me from reasonable preparations) > > When the power goes out, the rioting and looting starts > in the cities. (This isn't New Zealand, baby, this is LA) You are missing my point. Yes, it is possible that if power goes out, looting might occur. I am now considering another possibility: what happens if the power DOES NOT go out? What would the gunnuts do? Or, if the power does go out but looting does not start, would the gunnuts shoot some blacks that they mistake for "looters" but who are just walking down the streets? > When the rioters get bored, they'll get into cars. > When they run out of gas, they'll stay where they are stranded > as the gas pumps don't work. Some fine huntin' then, bubba. > > Mr. Moisin-Nagant That's Mosin-Nagant. - Igor. From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 1 13:01:32 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 05:01:32 +0800 Subject: y2k+oil refineries Message-ID: <199812012012.MAA03042@netcom13.netcom.com> a disturbing post on the idea that maybe embedded systems in refineries are so "embedded" they can't even be reached/ isolated. also hugely ubiquitous.... ------- Forwarded Message > > Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums > > 1998-11-30 13:28:22 > Subject: > Fuel Production Plants > Comment: > Let's hope this informant is wrong. If you have counter-evidence, contact me > at P. O. Box 8000, Tyler, TX 75711. > > * * * * * * * * > > I have one very, very reliable source within that industry who tells me that > the oil refining industry can't cope with the task. I am told that the problem > of embedded systems can NOT be fixed EVER, no matter how much time were > allowed. WHY? Because the refineries themselves would have to be dismantled to > uncover these embedded systems. Essentially, the refineries would have to be > destroyed and rebuilt!!! These embedded systems are buried within enclosed > systems. Identifying, testing and replacing these systems is too impractical. > It is financially unsound to do so. The better option is to build new ones. > There is no time to do this with less than 400 days left and the time to build > a new refinery is 3 to 5 years. > > So, what does this mean? My sources, especially the most reliable source tell > me that it means that on January 1, 2000... the oil and gas refineries will > cease operations. These facilities also have converted their inventory > management control systems to small inventory levels so that inventory levels > are running about 1 to 2 days capacity. A few years ago, the industry averaged > a 1 to 6 month supply in storage tanks. Not so today. > > The results: By 1/5/2000 there will be no gasoline, no diesel fuel, no natural > gas, no heating oil, no fuel oil products at all. This means trains will have > no fuel. Trucks will have no fuel. Cars will have no fuel. Electric Power > Plants will have no oil for fuel, nor coal... because there will be no fuel to > power the vehicles to get it to them. So, there will be no electricity. And > you know the remaining domino schematic from that point. From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 1 14:06:40 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:06:40 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:40 AM -0800 12/1/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >It does not affect sale of firearms by non-dealers (non-FFL holders). Look >for the Clinton administration to try to change this; at a press conference >today the DC reporter rat-pack was moaning about unregulated gun shows. > >It does affect non-sale transfers by FFLs. Per the DoJ rule: "NICS checks >apply to transfers and are not limited to firearm sales." > >I have an article up at www.wired.com shortly about the privacy implications. > >-Declan I'm staying out of this latest round of Brady Bill stuff...as this is very, very old news. Anyone just now realizing that an "Instant Check" system is being deployed has been asleep under a rock for the last few years. And I'm staying away from Igor Chudov's rants about "gunnuts" [sic]. As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not, but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with half a brain.) The country now has the beginnings of a national gun registration system, courtesy of such "useful idiots" as the National Rifle Association. As for who buys guns and the core of the whole debate, there's a simple, logical, compelling, and constitutional solution: Either someone is in prison or jail or otherwise under incarceration, or he is not. If he is in prison, his guns and lots of other things are not available to him. Once he is out of prison, and is no longer under incarceration, all of his constitutional rights are restored to him. The First Amendment rights of free speech and free practice of religion, the Third Amendment right not to have troops quartered in his home. The Fourth Amendment right about lawful searches. The Fifth Amendment right about compelled testimony. The Sixth Amendment right about jury trials. And so on. Oh, and of course the Second Amendment. There is no constitutional support that I can find that says the government can, for example, require ex-felons to get permission slips to speak out, that can require them to renounce certain religions, etc. And no support, constitutionally, for denying them Second Amendment rights. Sure, there may be _pragmatic_ reasons...we don't want these evil felons like Bill Clinton having guns, speaking freely, going to Baptist Bible camps, etc. But wanting something and getting it, constitutionally, are entirely different things. Seen this way, there is no need for any kind of instant check. Nor does the Constitution support the notion that the Second, or First, or Third, etc., rights depend on applying for a permit, getting a license, producing a valid ID and Social Security Number, or any of the modern baggage attached to such things. Gun sales should be as they once were: you plunk your money down and walk out with a gun. You don't need no steenking badges, licenses, permission slips, approvals from your psychiatrist, training classes, or evidence of some special need. Felons should either be in prison or restored to their full rights after doing their time. --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 1 15:39:08 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:39:08 +0800 Subject: y2k+oil refineries Message-ID: <199812012241.XAA19806@replay.com> North's "scrap the refinery, the chip broke" scenario was forwarded to comp.software.year-2000 by Paul Milne, resident doomsayer, foul-mouthed religious fanatic, economic Marxist, and all around kook. It prompted a very knowledgable reply which pointed out how silly the whole idea was, from someone with relevant experience. Maybe next time Detweiler could check c.s.y2k to filter out North's nuttier ideas before forwarding them here. Author: SAG Email: stephen.and.marilyn.goldstein at worldnet.att.net Date: 1998/12/01 fedinfo at halifax.com wrote: > > From GN: > > Category: > Noncompliant_Chips > Date: > 1998-11-30 13:28:22 > Subject: > Fuel Production Plants > > * * * * * * * * > > I have one very, very reliable source within that industry who tells me that > the oil refining industry can't cope with the task. I am told that the problem > of embedded systems can NOT be fixed EVER, no matter how much time were > allowed. WHY? Because the refineries themselves would have to be dismantled to > uncover these embedded systems. Essentially, the refineries would have to be > destroyed and rebuilt!!! These embedded systems are buried within enclosed > systems. Identifying, testing and replacing these systems is too impractical. > It is financially unsound to do so. The better option is to build new ones. > There is no time to do this with less than 400 days left and the time to build > a new refinery is 3 to 5 years. > > So, what does this mean? My sources, especially the most reliable source tell > me that it means that on January 1, 2000... the oil and gas refineries will > cease operations. These facilities also have converted their inventory > management control systems to small inventory levels so that inventory levels > are running about 1 to 2 days capacity. A few years ago, the industry averaged > a 1 to 6 month supply in storage tanks. Not so today. > > The results: By 1/5/2000 there will be no gasoline, no diesel fuel, no > natural gas, no heating oil, no fuel oil products at all. This means trains > will have no fuel. Trucks will have no fuel. Cars will have no fuel. Electric > Power Plants will have no oil for fuel, nor coal... because there will be no > fuel to power the vehicles to get it to them. So, there will be no > electricity. And you know the remaining domino schematic from that point. > > ====== > > I have no way of knowing whether the embedded systems are just that, embedded > in such a way that they can not be accessed. I imagine that some could be > under fifty feet of concrete or otherwise inaccessable. If this is so, then > there is not the slightest doubt at all, that it is indeed all over. Period. > > I am not going to bandy about the issue of whether this source is reliable or > not. It makes no difference. The only thing I am concerned with is whether > these systems are in fact inaccessable. I know that not every system is > inaccessable. The question is whether there are enough inaccessable systems to > mean that the refineries etc. will not function. > > Of course, I would love to hear someone counter this with evidence showing > that what has been related above is not true, or it is an urban myth etc. > But, I would like 'evidence'. Not conjecture or inuendo or suppositions. > > If it were so, that there were indeed these inaccessable systems, would the > companies involved let it be known publically? I think not. > > If this report is accurate, the remediation is 100% moot as I have said all > along, and you can kiss your butt good-bye. I'm not sure if I want to play this game Mr. Milne -- you offer this article which is, conjecture, innuendo and supposition but demand that any counter story be documented by "evidence." That's pretty tough and, frankly, I'm not up to the task as my knowledge is with electric power plants -- not oil refineries. They do, of course, share some important characteristics and so I'll give it a try. The approach will be from two perspectives -- first, I'll explain some power plant construction practices that contradict the refinery story; second, I'll offer another review of the nature of the "embedded" systems that might be at issue. Power Plant (and refinery) construction . . . . Remember, power plants and refineries are: o Capital intensive o Make increased use of computerized process control systems o Operate a continuous manufacturing/conversion process employing high temperatures and pressures. Typical design life of a coal-fired power plant is 40 years. During that period, any number of components *will* fail and *will have to be replaced.* Wouldn't make much sense to put a $500million investment at risk 'cause a $20.00 part failed in some inaccessible location. Thus EVERYTHING is accessible. You want evidence and I'm not about to take you on a power plant tour but even if you've never been inside a power plant the construction practice is similar to that found in many other industrial settings and, if you've ever been aboard a naval vessel or taken a cruise, ships. These settings are nothing like your home (or even an office) with all the infrastructure components nicely hidden behind walls -- pipes are exposed and clearly labeled -- power and control cables are laid in exposed cable trays and risers. Electronic components are often mounted in racks with easy access from front and back -- probably not at all like your computer or home theatre configuration. All this is to PERMIT MAINTENANCE, REPAIR and MODIFICATION. So you need to understand that the problem isn't just maintenance, in general, or for y2k. Process plants need to be modified frequently -- market conditions demand a change in inputs or outputs. Can't get enough sweet crude? Exxon doesn't close the refinery -- they modify it to handle the new feedstock (I got the grand tour from a fellow I knew who worked at Exxon's Baton Rouge refinery, years ago). Want some pictures? Here are a few from several "continuous process" industries: http://www.powerprocesspiping.com/, http://www.bdmechanical.com/ppiping.htm, http://silverweb.nf.ca/m&m/cb-p&p.htm, and http://www.shambaugh.com/process.htm. Now consider the nature of these embedded components. This has been the subject of much discussion in csy2k. I'd like to suggest that there are three broad categories of components in this context: o The control system(s) -- SCADA -- one or more intelligent nodes build on traditional minicomputer, or more recently, microprocessor-based server technology. These are very accessible -- they're in, adjacent to, or very near, the control room. In an even more modern "distributed control system," some of the capability will be located in different areas of the plant. Nevertheless, they still have to be very accessible -- stuff breaks -- memories get hard, multibit errors, disk drives fail, etc. o Remote devices -- the control systems can't run without data and so you have dozens to thousands of remotes -- devices that measure process parameters (temperature, pressure, mass flow, volumetric flow, acceleration and mechanical position (valve position or tank levels)) and a smaller number of remotes that can act on SCADA commands (start a motor, open a valve, etc.) Though most of these devices are pretty dumb, some may have a bit of silicon-based intelligence and therefore susceptible to y2k problems. BUT, they all have to be accessible because 1) they malfunction or need to be recalibrated and 2) plant modifications often require removal/replacement to accommodate process changes. o Embedded systems -- I think that the consensus is that the real embedded systems are those systems that are not obviously run by a computer -- the power plants water chemistry analyzer or the refineries gas chromatograph. These are on the site but they're not in the "plant" -- they're in the lab -- very accessible. Now "accessible" doesn't always mean you can walk right up and touch it! Guess where the flue gas monitoring remotes (temperature, opacity) are located -- top of the boiler or in the stack. But here's the scenario -- opacity indicator increases (flue gas has more smoke in it) but the stack gas "looks" clear. Do you shut down the plan on environment limits or do you send a maintenance man to replace the remote? Now is it possible that conditions would be different at an oil refinery. Sure, like I wrote at the beginning, I'm not really familar with these. But, really, we'd be looking at some obtuse examples -- imagine that rather than using a tank level indicator to see how much gasoline is in a tank, someone came up with the bright idea of putting a strain gauge *under* the tank and determing the amount of product in the tank but computing the weight on the gauge and using that to compute the amount of product. The device fails and, we'll all agree, it is not practical to replace it. Does the refinery stop using the tank? I wouldn't think so. They retrofit a traditional tank level indicator (float) to provide the needed information. HTH, SAG From riburr at shentel.net Tue Dec 1 15:43:03 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:43:03 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <366475F0.DD6CAA9F@shentel.net> Tim May wrote: > As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned > the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system > (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun > rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun > registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not, > but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment > agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the > instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with > half a brain.) The NRA is claiming that the database of citizens who purchase guns legally is prohibited by the Brady Bill. FBI claims it will be used for statistical purposes only. What will the statistics be used for? In the near future, we might expect anyone with more than 0.5 brain (among other handicaps) to fail the instant check. Ahh, now I see why they call it the Brady Bill (sincere apologies to Mr. Brady). From declan at well.com Tue Dec 1 16:48:52 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:48:52 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: <199812011936.LAA23593@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199812020013.QAA20073@smtp.well.com> At 01:14 PM 12-1-98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned >the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system >(and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun >rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun >registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not, >but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment >agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the >instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with >half a brain.) > >The country now has the beginnings of a national gun registration system, >courtesy of such "useful idiots" as the National Rifle Association. I was chatting for a while this afternoon with Larry Pratt of GOA (http://www.gunowners.org/). He pointed out that the NRA's compromising stance is not new. They've supported many, many pieces of gun control legislation since around the 1930s. Today at their press conference, a phlanx of NRA reps stressed that they really want this instant check. Necessary for law enforcement, whatever. The NRA is the CDT of the gun world. Remember when CDT's staff (before they left EFF) cut a deal on the Digital Telephony/CALEA bill and endorsed it? Now, years later when some of the provisions kick in, they're upset that the Justice Department wants more power than the law allows. Same thing's happening here with the NRA. What a surprise. -Declan From declan at well.com Tue Dec 1 17:17:18 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:17:18 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812020050.QAA29991@smtp.well.com> Well,actually the FBI is claiming it will be used for audits, including appeals from denials, not just statistical purposes. Also interesting in this is the lack of outrage from self-proclaimed "privacy advocates" -- really leftists who think it's OK to restrict guns. Though some are better than others. -Declan At 06:04 PM 12-1-98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote: > > >Tim May wrote: > >> As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned >> the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system >> (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun >> rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun >> registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not, >> but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment >> agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the >> instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with >> half a brain.) > >The NRA is claiming that the database of citizens who purchase guns legally is >prohibited by the Brady Bill. FBI claims it will be used for statistical purposes >only. What will the statistics be used for? In the near future, we might expect >anyone with more than 0.5 brain (among other handicaps) to fail the instant check. >Ahh, now I see why they call it the Brady Bill (sincere apologies to Mr. Brady). > From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 1 17:24:29 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:24:29 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:04 PM -0800 12/1/98, Frederick Burroughs wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned >> the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system >> (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun >> rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun >> registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not, >> but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment >> agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the >> instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with >> half a brain.) > >The NRA is claiming that the database of citizens who purchase guns legally is >prohibited by the Brady Bill. FBI claims it will be used for statistical >purposes >only. What will the statistics be used for? In the near future, we might >expect >anyone with more than 0.5 brain (among other handicaps) to fail the >instant check. >Ahh, now I see why they call it the Brady Bill (sincere apologies to Mr. >Brady). Yes, statistical purposes only. Like the way the Census data are used for statistical purposes only...except when used to round up those with Japanese-sounding names. (Pity in 1940 they weren't demanding that "race" be specified, as they now do. Would've made finding all the Matsuis and Toyotas a bit easier.) Here in California we have had computerized checks for many years, and now the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) is almost always transmitted electronically to the state capital. (One dealer said California will soon "phase out" paper-based forms, and even small dealers will have to get computerized.) The effect is that a data base of gun owners is growing. "Guns: Negative" and "Guns: Positive" are heard over police scanners (an illegal act, to listen) as units roll up to residences. They check with the central data base. Eric Blair is spinning. --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From declan at well.com Tue Dec 1 20:36:30 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:36:30 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database Message-ID: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com> >Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:50:05 -0500 >To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database >Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > > > >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html > > Gun Groups Take Aim at Database > by Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com) > > 4:45 p.m. 1.Dec.98.PST > WASHINGTON -- A controversial FBI > database that records gun buyers' > names, addresses, and Social Security > numbers is "a national surveillance > system" that violates the law. > > So says the National Rifle Association in a > motion for a preliminary injunction filed > Monday in US District Court. > > [...] > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 1 21:35:30 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:35:30 +0800 Subject: NZ or LA in Y2K Message-ID: <199812020501.GAA21822@replay.com> At 10:51 AM 12/1/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >I am now considering another possibility: what happens if the power DOES >NOT go out? What would the gunnuts do? Um, start shooting the insulators and pole-transformers? :-P Or, if the power does go out but >looting does not start, would the gunnuts shoot some blacks that they >mistake for "looters" but who are just walking down the streets? Now you're confusing arms fanciers and survivalists with violent racists. Get a grip. From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Tue Dec 1 21:35:39 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:35:39 +0800 Subject: New Brady Bill Implications In-Reply-To: <199812020013.QAA20073@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: GOA is good. So is JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). The boundaries between NRA and HCI are blurry. I am thinking about leaving the NRA, but since I am a Life Member, I can at least vote for the NRA board... --Lucky, JPFO member and proud of it. On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > At 01:14 PM 12-1-98 -0800, Tim May wrote: > >As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned > >the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system > >(and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun > >rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun > >registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not, > >but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment > >agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the > >instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with > >half a brain.) > > > >The country now has the beginnings of a national gun registration system, > >courtesy of such "useful idiots" as the National Rifle Association. > > > I was chatting for a while this afternoon with Larry Pratt of GOA > (http://www.gunowners.org/). He pointed out that the NRA's compromising > stance is not new. They've supported many, many pieces of gun control > legislation since around the 1930s. Today at their press conference, a > phlanx of NRA reps stressed that they really want this instant check. > Necessary for law enforcement, whatever. > > The NRA is the CDT of the gun world. > > Remember when CDT's staff (before they left EFF) cut a deal on the Digital > Telephony/CALEA bill and endorsed it? Now, years later when some of the > provisions kick in, they're upset that the Justice Department wants more > power than the law allows. > > Same thing's happening here with the NRA. What a surprise. > > -Declan > > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Tue Dec 1 21:40:03 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:40:03 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database In-Reply-To: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html > > > > Gun Groups Take Aim at Database "EPIC director Marc Rotenberg likened the plan to driver licensing, adding that privacy safeguards should be in place." Well, at least this makes it clear where EPIC stands on civil liberties. License to exercise your rights under the 2nd, license to exercise your rights under the 1st... -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From jim_finder at hotmail.com Tue Dec 1 21:43:00 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:43:00 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? Message-ID: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> I heard a shocking thing on the radio a few minutes ago. I'm <*really*> sorry I didn't hear the whole report but I'm hoping someone here can shed some light, According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some kind of FBI sting operation. I didn't hear the whole segment, but it sounded like it had something to do with passing classified (crypto?) information to a foreign government. The part of the report that I heard didn't say what kind of info or what he was charged with, but I got the impression that it was either some kind of ITAR thing or maybe espionage. They did say it was part of a long term sting operation and mentioned something (that I didn't hear clearly) about "other arrests" that either already happened or were likely to happen soon. Was this Matt Blaze? It sure sounds like it must be. Is there a crackdown going on? Has anyone else been busted? Does anyone have more complete information about this? Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From declan at well.com Tue Dec 1 21:53:12 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:53:12 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database In-Reply-To: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199812020524.VAA10327@smtp.well.com> I've been chatting with Marc after he read the article; he confirmed his stance and elaborated on it. I'll see if I can get his permission to forward the message. ACLU ("what second amendment?") takes the same position,I believe. -Declan At 06:11 AM 12-2-98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote: >On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > >> >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html >> > >> > Gun Groups Take Aim at Database > >"EPIC director Marc Rotenberg likened the plan to driver licensing, adding >that privacy safeguards should be in place." > >Well, at least this makes it clear where EPIC stands on civil liberties. >License to exercise your rights under the 2nd, license to exercise your >rights under the 1st... > >-- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. > From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Tue Dec 1 22:34:31 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:34:31 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, jim finder wrote: > > I heard a shocking thing on the radio a few minutes ago. > I'm <*really*> sorry I didn't hear the whole report but I'm > hoping someone here can shed some light, > > According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named > Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some > kind of FBI sting operation. NFW that Matt would get arrested. He is too high profile. They haven't become that blatant just yet. Arresting Matt would trigger more pro-bono work than the DOJ has staff. :-) Besides, Matt would not engage in illegal activities. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From emc at wire.insync.net Tue Dec 1 22:47:34 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:47:34 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199812020619.AAA21655@wire.insync.net> A Disposable Hotmail Account writes: > According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named > Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some > kind of FBI sting operation. Who are you? While the originating IP of this message is owned by Bell Labs, I find it surprising that a story of this magnitude is nowhere to be found on the various wire services. Can anyone confirm or deny this report? Color me suspicious. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 1 23:28:32 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:28:32 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: At 10:19 PM -0800 12/1/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >A Disposable Hotmail Account writes: > >> According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named >> Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some >> kind of FBI sting operation. > >Who are you? > >While the originating IP of this message is owned by Bell Labs, >I find it surprising that a story of this magnitude is nowhere to >be found on the various wire services. > >Can anyone confirm or deny this report? Color me suspicious. > I'm more than suspicious....the thing is written in a spoof motif. On the other hand, remember how several of us were apparently "warned" (in the threatening sense) by the Internal Revenue Service by weird forwardings of our messages and by pre-announcement of Jim Bell's arrest? Maybe someone from the State Department is pulling the same trick. If so, Matt still has enough time to lock and load..... --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From blancw at cnw.com Wed Dec 2 00:20:56 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:20:56 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: <000301be1dc9$357bf260$808195cf@blanc> I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto. It seems that they had a copy of two emails (which they took from his confiscated computer) with my name on them - one of them the one in which I chastized him for sending a threatening letter to Billg. According to the headers in the message which they showed to me, Toto forwarded my reply through remailer at replay.com, Anon-To: billg. They wanted to know about my associations with Toto (I still think of him by that name), of course, of which I had none except through email. In our conversation, I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's situation: that he had sent threatening letters to the Mounties, and that he had threated to kill the judge trying Jim's case. This is why he will be held and tried in the local jail - because the potential victims (besides the Mounties) are in this area. (sigh) I'm afraid CJ really went over the edge here and backed himself up in a corner. I should have chastized him more severely and counseled him against rash acts of unkindness (not that I hold myself responsible for what he did, but he did pay attention to me). Kind of amusingly, one of them asked if CJ had ever asked me to join the Circle of Eunuchs! heh. I explained that it was Toto's Art imitating Life, creating stories about a revolutionary group based on the list discussions, and that I suspected he called it the Circle of Eunuchs because of the accusations ( by *some people* )that cpunks are ineffectual. We had a bit of discussion on a number of things, including the subject of free speech and how close one can get to it before being subject to arrest. I asked them what that crucial point was when this would happen, since there is no crime until action is actually taken. They said this would be when a direct threat is made and a specific name is mentioned. I referenced as an example the web site which some group put up containing a list of the names of abortion-performing doctors, mentioned in the press as a 'hit list'. They said that a web site with a list of names is not a problem. It is when statements are made about killing the individuals on the list that a person would have "crossed the line". One of the investigators also brought up the issue of the conflict between free speech vs life & liberty, of when one infringes on the other (as in threatening to take away someone's life). I remarked that one must always be prepared for the unexpected, and they made some points about taking threats seriously and the necessity of government agents looking out for their personal safety. I asked if cypherpunks would actually be subpoenaed to appear at CJ's trial. They said it depends on CJ: if he accepts a deal, he would likely get a reduced sentence, but if he takes them to trial then there could be quite a number of Cpunks called forth. I suggested if that happens we could all go out to dinner : ) and they thought this would be quite interesting. One of the investigators expressed a great interest in the cpunk dicussions and concepts; I described something of what the list is about and the flow of subscribers through it, and referred him to the archives, saying '94-'95 were some good years. I'm sure given a little time and several dinners we could convert him to the Dark Side. .. Blanc From announce at zdnet.zdlists.com Wed Dec 2 20:30:49 1998 From: announce at zdnet.zdlists.com (ZDNet Announce) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:30:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Check out the New ZDNet and ZDTV Forums! Message-ID: <199812030315.WAA22510@america.interstep.com> Dear Forum Member: If you are reading this message, you are a participant in the ZDNet or ZDTV message boards (a.k.a. ZDNet Forums or Community). I would like to take this opportunity to tell you about some changes that will affect you on December 8. We are moving from our current forum software, called Podium, to version 1.0 of new forum software created by Deja News. On Dec. 8, when you follow a link or bookmark to one of our forums, you will be directed to the new software automatically. You don't have to download or install anything -- our forums remain entirely Web-based -- but the apearance and functions of the forums will be different. All your messages posted in Podium are being brought over, so your conversations won't miss a beat. We have been testing the Deja News software in three of our current forums for several months, and we have also created a test forum so you can try out the software and give us your feedback. We know that any change is disruptive; you will have to re-learn some forum functions and get used to a new interface. We apologize in advance for the hassle. We felt the switch to the Deja News software was the only way to improve the performance and reliability of the forums, plus the new software has a better search engine and great possibilities for integrating Usenet newsgroups into our offerings. If you have not yet had a chance to try out the new software, you can do so at any one or all of the forums listed below: Test Forum http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/test.html Help Channel General Discussion http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/generaldiscussion.html Microsoft Office http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/msoffice.html Gadget Gab http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/gadget.html Please give us your feedback about the new software in the Test Forum. We are using your comments to make the software work better, so we appreciate as much of participation as possible. In addition to the new software, we will be merging several forums. Over the months, ZDNet and ZDTV have created a number of overlapping message boards, and some forums have lost their appeal to users. As part of the switch to Deja News, we'll be integrating forums on similar topics. As a result, expect most forums to be busier after Dec. 8. Thank you for your time and effort. We are looking forward to seeing you in the new forums, and we are glad to have you as a part of the ZDNet Community. We will send you just a few more e-mails like this one to keep you up-to-date on the switch, but we promise not to continue spamming you after the transition is complete. Regards, Wendy Frankwich ZDNet and ZDTV Community http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/www.zdnet.com http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/www.zdtv.com _______________________________________________________________________ To be removed from this list, simply reply to this message with "unsubscribe" as your subject. From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 04:45:06 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:45:06 +0800 Subject: "Export" controls Message-ID: <199812021214.NAA20333@replay.com> >Can you give me an example of a commercial vendor who has suffered >because someone bought a "dangerous" product ( Windows, for example ) at >retail and carried it out of the country in a suitcase? My guess would I cannot give such example because hard crypto products are not available to the general public. I am unaware that microshit OS has hard crypto built-in. The only hard crypto package I have ever seen for sale at mail-order (and thus not anonymous) is NAI's PGP (and I have never seen any hard crypto available in a store for cash - but that can only mean that there is no perceived demand). However, any hard crypto that would work on system level and encrypt all communications is not available for purchase (it is available for free, though, in the form of IPSec package with 128-bit block ciphers for *BSD operating systems.) There is a number of VPN companies that offer crypto boxes, but AFAIK they either do not mention crypto scheme they use or they say DES. There is only one VPN company that advertises 128-bit crypto in it's product. >> [ For example, try to buy one of IBM crypto-cards - give them a call >> and ask what does it take to purchase one with hard crypto on it >> >Save me the phone call and describe your experience. BTW - IBM derives a You'll miss all the fun. After talking to 5-6 departments one concludes that no one knows anything about 4758, but they are all nice and helpful, and forward your call to each other. 4758 does not exist for casual callers. My guess is that if you have been dealing with IBM for some time you may be able to get it. To recap, there are no hard crypto drop-in hardware products available to general public in the USA today. >just write a damn book, source, VHDL etc. You can even export that. My The question is how to make money by selling hard crypto in the US. NAI seems to be the only company that can get away with so-called "publishing exception" in the commercial world. Their joining the key recovery alliance is probably unrelated :-) >Disk encryptor - SCSI/EIDE, a bump in the wire between the motherboard >and the disk drive. With its own smartcard/keypad interface, keys are >never seen by OS. It doesn't solve the security problem while the system There are many neat ideas. But no hardware. From riburr at shentel.net Wed Dec 2 05:51:04 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:51:04 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <000301be1dc9$357bf260$808195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <36653E71.6115919@shentel.net> Blanc wrote: > I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto. [...] > I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's situation: > that he had sent threatening letters to the Mounties, and that he had threated > to kill the judge trying Jim's case. I guess investigators have to take such things seriously, that's their job. I believe CJ was just trying to establish dialogue with *authority* figures, real or imagined, to satisfy a selfish need for aggrandizement. Well, he got his wish and it swallowed him whole. May the saints preserve him.[...] > One of the investigators expressed a great interest in the cpunk dicussions and > concepts; Constitutionally guaranteed concepts can be novel and quite interesting. From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Wed Dec 2 07:21:04 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:21:04 +0800 Subject: "Export" controls Message-ID: "Anonymous" wrote: > >Can you give me an example of a commercial vendor who has suffered > >because someone bought a "dangerous" product ( Windows, for example ) at > >retail and carried it out of the country in a suitcase? My guess would > > I cannot give such example because hard crypto products are not available > to > the general public. > > I am unaware that microshit OS has hard crypto built-in. The only hard > crypto > package I have ever seen for sale at mail-order (and thus not anonymous) > is > NAI's PGP (and I have never seen any hard crypto available in a store for > cash > - but that can only mean that there is no perceived demand). > [Trei, Peter] Huh? I got my copy of NAI PGP 5.0 off of the shelf at CompUSA, a major retail chain (I did pay with plastic, but am 99.999...% certain that cash would have been accepted). The box *is* marked 'Not for export', but I don't recall seeing any other restrictions. Either 'anonymous' hasn't looked hard enough, or he/she/it's in another country. Peter Trei ptrei at securitydynamics.com [I apologize for the lousy formatting. I'm using a Microsoft product to sent this message.] From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 07:48:34 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:48:34 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812021445.PAA00469@replay.com> I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone verified the integrity of a web site called "Spy & CounterSpy" located at http://www.spycounterspy.com/? The site is basically a citizens' guide to counterintelligence, and covers topics ranging from anonymous email and encryption to evading FBI surveillance. The author, Lee Adams, claims to have years of experience in these areas but I'm wondering if this site isn't quite what it appears to be -- a site put up by some freedom-loving guy who wants to help everyone enjoy their privacy. From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Dec 2 09:27:27 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:27:27 +0800 Subject: Spy & CounterSpy In-Reply-To: <199812021445.PAA00469@replay.com> Message-ID: <36656470.A91D8D66@brainlink.com> Anonymous wrote: > I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone > verified the integrity of a web site called > "Spy & CounterSpy" located at http://www.spycounterspy.com/? > > The site is basically a citizens' guide to > counterintelligence, and covers topics ranging > from anonymous email and encryption to evading > FBI surveillance. > > The author, Lee Adams, claims to have years of > experience in these areas but I'm wondering if > this site isn't quite what it appears to be -- > a site put up by some freedom-loving guy who wants > to help everyone enjoy their privacy. I'm uncertain as to their intentions. They do have what seems to be interesting information as to how Law Enforcement works, but after subscribing to their "F9" mailing list out of curiosity, it seems that every other email is a call to join them in their "battle" against whatever vague enemy they believe they have and to set up "cells." I don't know if the value of their material and the validity as such, perhaps a local LEO on this list can verify its accuracy, however, IMHO, it's best to not get involved with them as they're either very honest about their intent and thus are in great danger and are a great danger to others, or are a front for something evil. What's interesting is that I've not received any more of the F9 messages in a long while, so something is up with them, either that or because I've shown no interest in joining their "cause" they've stopped sending mail. They're certainly a lot more than just a site put up by freedom loving folks, and the web site doesn't display that. -- =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Sunder |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From mab at research.att.com Wed Dec 2 09:37:52 1998 From: mab at research.att.com (Matt Blaze) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:37:52 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199812021636.LAA22798@nsa.research.att.com> I'm afraid you're confused. Whoever this report was about, it wasn't me: * I'm not at Lucent Bell Labs. (I'm at AT&T Shannon Labs.) I'm not aware of any other Blaze at either AT&T or Lucent, however. * I'm not a mathematician. (I'm a computer scientist.) * I've not been to ORD, or any other midwestern airport, since August. (I do fly a lot, though). * I never been arrested. (I did accently set off the antitheft detector at a local bookstore once, but they let me go when I showed them my reciept). -matt >I heard a shocking thing on the radio a few minutes ago. >I'm <*really*> sorry I didn't hear the whole report but I'm >hoping someone here can shed some light, > >According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named >Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some >kind of FBI sting operation. I didn't hear the whole segment, >but it sounded like it had something to do with passing classified >(crypto?) information to a foreign government. The part of >the report that I heard didn't say what kind of info or what >he was charged with, but I got the impression that it was either >some kind of ITAR thing or maybe espionage. They did >say it was part of a long term sting operation and mentioned >something (that I didn't hear clearly) about "other arrests" >that either already happened or were likely to happen soon. > >Was this Matt Blaze? It sure sounds like it must be. Is >there a crackdown going on? Has anyone else been busted? > >Does anyone have more complete information about this? > >Jim > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 10:01:35 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:01:35 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? Message-ID: <199812021702.SAA16916@replay.com> > X-Originating-IP: [208.198.164.2] > From: "jim finder" > To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Cc: cryptography at c2.net, mab at research.att.com > Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? The originating IP for this hotmail posting is lpwa.com, the Lucent Personalized Web Assistant. Ken Williams had posted a URL last week which described how to send anonymous mail using lpwa as a proxy to the hotmail service: > I came across a funny article about a "CIA, DEA, FBI, Lucent > Technologies, Replay.com, Seed-bank.com Grand Conspiracy" at > http://members.tripod.com/~spookbusters/sunnysnooping.htm This is easy to do and provides moderate levels of anonymity. You set lpwa.com as your proxy in the browser settings, and then set up your hotmail account and send the mail. Maybe Jim Finder was just testing the idea. Blaze has attracted one or two cranks who try to harrass him, and this may be another attempt to make some trouble for him. From ulf at fitug.de Wed Dec 2 10:01:59 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:01:59 +0800 Subject: "remailers operated by FBI" In-Reply-To: <199811261817.KAA27682@toad.com> Message-ID: > I wonder if this is also old hat to you people. If it turns out to > be another FAQ, I promise to read some. It is. The rumor of remailers being run by US authorities can be tracked down to statements by Paul Strassmann of the National Defense University and William Marlow of SIAC made at a Harvard conference. The Austrian jurist Viktor Mayer-Schoenberger reported in February 1996: | Both presenters explicitly acknowledged that a number of anonymous | remnailers in the US are run by government agencies scanning | traffic. Marlow said that the government runs at least a dozen | remailers and that the most popular remailers in France and Germany | are run by the respective government agencies in these countries. However, there has never been any remailer in France, and at that time, there was no remailer in Germany. It is certainly not true that dozens or even "all the e-mail anonymiser services" in the US are run by government agencies. Strassmann and Marlow later claimed that they had been quoted "out of context". They wrote, "We have no specific knowledge of any particular agency of any government offering remailers services. Whether or how they use remailers is not known to us. Online users just need to be 'aware of the risks.'" But unfortunately rumors are hard to stop. Anyway, the possibility that some remailers may be compromized is part of the threat model, and Mixmaster has been designed to be secure as long as there is one honest remailer in your chains. More information: http://caq.com/CAQ57Sniff.html http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/ (search for Strassmann Marlow) About the Mixmaster design: http://www.obscura.com/~loki/remailer/remailer-essay.html > The extortionist was sending the notes via e-mail, using what the > professor referred to as "e-mail anonymiser servers" in the US. It seems he in fact used a service like hotmail. From ulf at fitug.de Wed Dec 2 10:32:09 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:32:09 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <19981202183113.18018@ulf.mali.sub.org> > Who are you? > > While the originating IP of this message is owned by Bell Labs, 208.198.164.2 alias lpwa.com is their web anonymizer. From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Dec 2 10:41:59 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:41:59 +0800 Subject: "Export" controls Message-ID: <3665810E.1BBD@lsil.com> > I am unaware that microshit OS has hard crypto built-in. > I was pointing out a retail parallel, not a crypto parallel. You sure it's not Microshaft? More meanings. > The question is how to make money by selling hard crypto in the US. > A little experiment is often a good thing. I heard that the guys who made the DES cracker have had $$ requests for machines and/or chips. > To recap, there are no hard crypto drop-in hardware products > available to general public in the USA today. > In case you missed it, my original reply was an attempt to open discussion on some type of cooperative effort. Look at http://www.xilinx.com/products/xc4000XLA.html for prototype purposes. I wonder how many DES or IDEA engines could be put on a 500K gate array? It would fit about 35 instantiations of Twofish. That should be enough for a phone or a disk encryptor. It's not trivial but - Products can be done. On a shoestring. By the right people. Even non-geniuses. Who want to get them done. <-- the key item No sense pushing the button without critical mass. sigh... A friend's t-shirt many years ago: A penny for your thoughts, twenty bucks to act them out. From xasper8d at lobo.net Wed Dec 2 11:17:50 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:17:50 +0800 Subject: Spy & CounterSpy In-Reply-To: <36656470.A91D8D66@brainlink.com> Message-ID: <000701be1e23$16e445a0$8e2580d0@ibm> Ray sez: ~> What's interesting is that I've not received any more of the F9 ~> messages in a long while, so something is up with them, either that ~> or because I've shown no interest in joining their "cause" they've ~> stopped sending mail. That would be a first. X From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Dec 2 11:18:37 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:18:37 +0800 Subject: Spy & CounterSpy In-Reply-To: <000701be1e23$16e445a0$8e2580d0@ibm> Message-ID: <36658C71.1D60BE90@brainlink.com> X wrote: > > Ray sez: > > ~> What's interesting is that I've not received any more of the F9 > ~> messages in a long while, so something is up with them, either that > ~> or because I've shown no interest in joining their "cause" they've > ~> stopped sending mail. > > That would be a first. All things considered they're advocating shooting people and blowing up buildings (though in vague terms); that's not exactly something I'd want to add to my resume or be associated with. So, no thanks. -- =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Sunder |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From whgiii at openpgp.net Wed Dec 2 11:35:42 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:35:42 +0800 Subject: "Export" controls In-Reply-To: <3665810E.1BBD@lsil.com> Message-ID: <199812021810.NAA016.22@whgiii> In <3665810E.1BBD at lsil.com>, on 12/02/98 at 10:03 AM, Michael Motyka said: >You sure it's not Microshaft? More meanings. I prefer Mickysloth myself as it is more descriptive of their coding style. :) -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From sbryan at vendorsystems.com Wed Dec 2 11:58:33 1998 From: sbryan at vendorsystems.com (Steve Bryan) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:58:33 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Matt Blaze wrote: >I'm afraid you're confused. Whoever this report was about, it >wasn't me: >... Not a important question but isn't this the sort of message that would benefit most from a PGP signature? I checked on the certserver and it did locate a 512 bit key RSA key from 1993. I don't routinely sign or encrypt my email but I remain curious about decisions others make. In a program on NPR a few years ago I recall a few luminaries were ardently discussing the issues involved in encryption but when asked late in the program how they used encrryption themselves they all quickly said that it was just too cumbersome. Steve Bryan Vendorsystems International email: sbryan at vendorsystems.com icq: 5263678 pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C 2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5 From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Dec 2 12:04:17 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 04:04:17 +0800 Subject: Y2K and Atlas Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B2F4@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> -----Original Message----- From: [somebody] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 5:04 PM To: philosophy of objectivism Subject: For the ARF Ed Yourdon is name known to aging geeks as the developer of structured systems analysis & design. His text on the subject is still in use in C.S. courses around the country. He's also the author of a dozen or so books about programming, particularly mainframe programming. In early 1998 Yourdon and his daughter Jennifer co-authored "Time Bomb 2000: What the Year 2000 Computer Crisis Means to You." (As you might infer from the title, the Yourdons aren't exactly sanguine about the potential impact of the Y2K problem.) (Nor am I.) Yourdon maintains a web site featuring, among many other things, reading list both technical and non-technical about programming and Y2K. Introducing his non-technical list of Y2K books, he recommends Atlas Shrugged with the following comment: >As for Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged ... well, you probably read it in >college, but you've probably forgotten all about it. You probably don't >remember John Galt's famous line, "I will stop the engine of the world." >Well, read the book again now, with Y2K-colored glasses, and remember that >computer programmers are reading it, too. The question you need to ask >them is whether they intend to stay on the job if the lights go out on >January 1, 2000, and whether they feel sufficiently motivated to re-start >the engines of the world. If you don't think that's a question worth >asking, then you haven't read Atlas Shrugged. So I guess I'm not the only person to have made that connection... http://www.yourdon.com/books/coolbooks/coolby2kother.html From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 13:17:14 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:17:14 +0800 Subject: A person who counsels to fail to comply with the Act Message-ID: <199812022015.VAA09805@replay.com> Check out this bit of american slavery: "Failing to register or otherwise comply with the Military Selective Service Act is, upon conviction, punishable by a fine of up to $250,000, impris- onment for up to five years, or both. A person who knowingly counsels, aids or abets another to fail to comply with the Act is subject to the same penalties." www.sss.gov/teach3.pdf (for teachers, note) And this anti-FIJA bit: Except as may be authorized by a judge, no person or entity shall distribute or attempt to distribute any written materials tending to influence, interfere, or impede the lawful discharge of the duties of a trial juror, or communicate or attempt to communicate with any person summoned, drawn, or serving as a trial juror in the Superior Courts in Los Angeles for purposes of influencing, interfering, or impeding the lawful discharge of the duties of a trial juror in, or within 50 yards of any public entrance to, the facilities within which the Superior Courts conduct jury trials within this County. (Rule 5.2 added and effective 7/1/97.) http://www.co.la.ca.us/courts/superior-auc/CourtRules/Chapter5.htm#5.2 From gbroiles at netbox.com Wed Dec 2 13:22:56 1998 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:22:56 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <000301be1dc9$357bf260$808195cf@blanc> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Blanc wrote: > I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto. > [...] > In our conversation, I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's > situation [...] More information is interesting, but it's important to remember that cops are free to lie to ordinary people and suspects; it's not considered a violation of your constitutional rights, of the law, or of their professional standards. Good interrogators/investigators learn to use social and psychological techniques to gain the results they want - which may be gaining intelligence, extracting a confession, or isolating a suspect from their friends/supporters/codefendants. Just as a reasonable person will likely listen cautiously to an accused person proclaiming their innocence, a reasonable person should also listen cautiously when the prosecution proclaims someone's guilt. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 13:25:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:25:50 +0800 Subject: L5 algorithm patent, and free eval version Message-ID: <199812022046.VAA14983@replay.com> On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Joey Roa wrote: > My name is Joey Roa and I am Professional Services Team Leader of JAWS > Technologies Inc. I have recently become aware of your list. A colleague > ... > The L5 algorithm is not yet published as we are waiting assurances from out > patent attorneys that we have some protection for marketing purposes. Hello Joey et all, Now that L5 has been patented, will you and your colleagues at Jaws Technology make the L5 algorithm details available to the professional cryptography community for independant verification. Could you also provide the Canadian and/or US patent numbers? (Announcement of L5 patent: ) To cypherpunks readers, the free "shareware" version is available from: I think the coderpunks readers might enjoy playing with this program. It has proven entertaining so far for me. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Dec 2 13:26:39 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Ignoramus) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:26:39 +0800 Subject: test1 #1 Message-ID: <199812022039.PAA11521@mail.video-collage.com> test 1 From frissell at panix.com Wed Dec 2 13:36:48 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:36:48 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database In-Reply-To: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981202150708.03cb42c0@panix.com> At 06:11 AM 12/2/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote: >On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > >> >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html >> > >> > Gun Groups Take Aim at Database > >"EPIC director Marc Rotenberg likened the plan to driver licensing, adding >that privacy safeguards should be in place." > >Well, at least this makes it clear where EPIC stands on civil liberties. >License to exercise your rights under the 2nd, license to exercise your >rights under the 1st... > >-- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. Usual car, driver, and gun licensing rant: While I do not support regulating guns like driving (or indeed driving like driving), most gun control thugs ignore the fact that vehicle regulation is not as broad as they seem to think. The following statements are true: It is legal to own a car without a driver's license or vehicle registration. It is legal to drive an unregistered car without a driver's license (in some circumstances). No permission is required to purchase a car and felons, the mentally ill, children, aliens and those guilty of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses can buy cars and most of the above can drive cars on public streets and roads. You are not required to report the purchase of a car to anyone. It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US with a license from any jurisdiction on earth. It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is registered in other states or nations. It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is owned by and registered to any person or legal entity. Legal entities can own and register cars and permit anyone they like to drive them. Note that if we regulated guns like driving, the above would mean that you could buy and use a gun on your own property without licensing, registration or reporting. DCF From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 13:41:27 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:41:27 +0800 Subject: SASMF, Part 2 Message-ID: <199812022055.VAA16481@replay.com> Space Aliens Stole My Freedom, Part 2 Know Your Spineless SheepleNeighbor(TM) If the banks can be required to Know Their Customers, maybe you can be required to Know Your Neighbor. This is already an established system in Cuba, so importing it should be cheap, fast and easy. ----- "Know Your Neighbor" Requirements AGENCY: Federal Bureau of Investigation ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking. SUMMARY: The FBI is proposing to issue regulations requiring FBI-supervised citizen-residents to develop and maintain "Know Your Neighbor" programs. As proposed, the regulations would require each citizen-resident to develop a program designed to determine the identity of its neighbors; determine its neighbors' sources of gossip and political views; determine the normal and expected comings and goings of its neighbors; monitor household activity for things that are inconsistent with those normal and expected activities; and report any activities of its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FBI's existing suspicious activity reporting regulations. By requiring citizen- residents to determine the identity of their neighbors, as well as to obtain knowledge regarding the legitimate activities of their neighbors, the proposed regulations will reduce the likelihood that citizen- residents will become unwitting participants in illicit activities conducted or attempted by their neighbors. It also will level the playing field between citizen-residents that already have adopted formal Know Your Neighbor programs and those that have not. --- Minimum steps to take to comply with the Know Your Customer rule. Identify the neighbor. Paragraph (d)(2)(i) requires that the Know Your Neighbor program provide a system for determining the true identity of prospective neighbors. If a citizen-resident has reasonable cause to believe that it lacks sufficient information to know the identity of an existing neighbor, paragraph (d)(4)(ii)(A) also requires that the program provide a system for determining the identity of that neighbor. --- Determine the source of people and property. Paragraph (d)(2)(ii) requires that the Know Your Neighbor program provide a system for determining the source of a neighbor's possessions and household members. The amount of information needed to do this can depend on the type of neighbor in question. Determine normal and expected comings and goings. Paragraph (d)(2)(iii) requires that the Know Your Neighbor program provide a system for determining a neighbor's normal and expected comings and goings involving the citizen-resident. A citizen-resident's understanding of a neighbor's normal and expected comings and goings should be based on information obtained both when a neighbor relationship is established and during a reasonable period of time thereafter. It also should be based on normal comings and goings for similarly situated neighbors. Without this information, a citizen- resident is unable to identify suspicious comings and goings. Determine if activity should be reported. Once an activity is identified as inconsistent with normal and expected behavior, paragraph (d)(2)(v) requires that a citizen-resident determine if the activity warrants the filing of a Suspicious Activity Report. This is consistent with a citizen-resident's existing obligations under 12 CFR 353.3(a). --- A. Reasons for and objectives of the proposed rule. The proposed Know Your Neighbor rule is designed to deter and detect neighborhood crimes, such as plots to establish "Constitutional government," gathering of information about alleged "crimes" committed by government agents, and meeting to discuss subversive literature such as the Constitution. B. Requirements of the proposed rule. The proposed rule would require citizen-residents to identify their neighbors, determine their neighbors' normal and expected activities, determine their neighbors' sources of possessions and household members, monitor neighbors' activities to find those that are not normal and expected, and, for activities that are not normal and expected, identify which are suspicious. Know Your Neighbor monitoring would be similar to monitoring that citizen-residents already do. For example, citizen-residents monitor neighbor activities to ensure that comings and goings exceeding 100 per month are reported under the Neighborhood Secrecy Act, to ensure that neighbors do not overuse their driveways and sidewalks, and to ensure that required comings and goings accurate and timely. ----- Editor's Note: The worst part of this parody is that it's true. Cuba, like most communist dictatorships, has a highly developed system of block watchers. They are responsible for all of the foregoing, making their reports to the secret police. The U.S. government is instituting a system of "bank account watchers," toadies in the supine, excruciatingly closely regulated banking industry, who will have to "know you," get to know your normal and expected bank account activity, and watch your bank account activity to detect and report "Suspicious Transactions." Welkomm to Orwell's 1984. Welkomm to Nazi Amerika. Hold your arm out straight... there... this will just sting a bit... Does anyone not get it yet? There is _nothing_ in the Constitution that gives the federal government any power to subject the American people to financial surveillance, to restrict or require reporting of cash transactions in any quantities, to restrict or encumber firearms ownership to anyone not actually serving time in a prison, or to do _any_ of the onerous abominations being thrust upon us in new and terrible forms almost daily. Does anyone not get it yet? The federal government is forfeiting, just as fast as its android minions can think up new ways to do it, its last shreds of any claim to legitimacy. They may as well fly the skull and crossbones over government buildings. Their occupation army of marauding thugs is _here_, bringing to ghastly life the very words of the bill of particulars laid against King George III of England by the Founders of this now-decayed, now-corrupt, hollow Republic, in the Declaration of Independence. Do they _never_ learn? (Obviously not) Will we _have_ to go through it all again? (Obviously yes) Has the line been crossed? (Obviously yes) Has force been initiated? (Obviously yes) Has the federal government placed itself outside the law? (Obviously yes) So be it. Cry "Havoc!" and let loose the dogs of war. The Revolution is upon us. We have nothing to lose but our imminent slavery. Sam Adams has a piece of advice: Keep your own counsel. Translation: Do your own thing and don't look to prop up your courage with the flawed courage and lack of trustworthiness of others. Don't be a groupie -- be a commando. Required re-reading: http://www.dhc.net/~toarms/henry.htm FuckingFedUpMonger From fireman at shaw.wave.ca Wed Dec 2 14:44:05 1998 From: fireman at shaw.wave.ca (ostreamH) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:44:05 +0800 Subject: y2k+oil refineries In-Reply-To: <199812012241.XAA19806@replay.com> Message-ID: Assuming most power plants are similar, all control instrumentation must have some way to bypass the computers in case of emergency. The pulp and paper mill I worked in lost +1M$ / day of downtime so when a controller went down, the process that was effected went on manual bypass and everything continued to run. And yes, all "embedded" systems were eaisly accessable for quick repair/replacement. On 01-Dec-98 Anonymous wrote: > North's "scrap the refinery, the chip broke" scenario was forwarded to > comp.software.year-2000 by Paul Milne, resident doomsayer, foul-mouthed > religious fanatic, economic Marxist, and all around kook. It prompted a > very knowledgable reply which pointed out how silly the whole idea was, > from someone with relevant experience. Maybe next time Detweiler could > check c.s.y2k to filter out North's nuttier ideas before forwarding > them here. > > > Author: SAG > Email: stephen.and.marilyn.goldstein at worldnet.att.net > Date: 1998/12/01 > > fedinfo at halifax.com wrote: >> >> From GN: >> >> Category: >> Noncompliant_Chips >> Date: >> 1998-11-30 13:28:22 >> Subject: >> Fuel Production Plants >> >> * * * * * * * * >> >> I have one very, very reliable source within that industry who tells me that >> the oil refining industry can't cope with the task. I am told that the >> problem >> of embedded systems can NOT be fixed EVER, no matter how much time were >> allowed. WHY? Because the refineries themselves would have to be dismantled >> to >> uncover these embedded systems. Essentially, the refineries would have to be >> destroyed and rebuilt!!! These embedded systems are buried within enclosed >> systems. Identifying, testing and replacing these systems is too >> impractical. >> It is financially unsound to do so. The better option is to build new ones. >> There is no time to do this with less than 400 days left and the time to >> build >> a new refinery is 3 to 5 years. >> >> So, what does this mean? My sources, especially the most reliable source >> tell >> me that it means that on January 1, 2000... the oil and gas refineries will >> cease operations. These facilities also have converted their inventory >> management control systems to small inventory levels so that inventory >> levels >> are running about 1 to 2 days capacity. A few years ago, the industry >> averaged >> a 1 to 6 month supply in storage tanks. Not so today. >> >> The results: By 1/5/2000 there will be no gasoline, no diesel fuel, no >> natural gas, no heating oil, no fuel oil products at all. This means trains >> will have no fuel. Trucks will have no fuel. Cars will have no fuel. >> Electric >> Power Plants will have no oil for fuel, nor coal... because there will be no >> fuel to power the vehicles to get it to them. So, there will be no >> electricity. And you know the remaining domino schematic from that point. >> >> ====== >> >> I have no way of knowing whether the embedded systems are just that, >> embedded >> in such a way that they can not be accessed. I imagine that some could be >> under fifty feet of concrete or otherwise inaccessable. If this is so, then >> there is not the slightest doubt at all, that it is indeed all over. Period. >> >> I am not going to bandy about the issue of whether this source is reliable >> or >> not. It makes no difference. The only thing I am concerned with is whether >> these systems are in fact inaccessable. I know that not every system is >> inaccessable. The question is whether there are enough inaccessable systems >> to >> mean that the refineries etc. will not function. >> >> Of course, I would love to hear someone counter this with evidence showing >> that what has been related above is not true, or it is an urban myth etc. >> But, I would like 'evidence'. Not conjecture or inuendo or suppositions. >> >> If it were so, that there were indeed these inaccessable systems, would the >> companies involved let it be known publically? I think not. >> >> If this report is accurate, the remediation is 100% moot as I have said all >> along, and you can kiss your butt good-bye. > > I'm not sure if I want to play this game Mr. Milne -- you offer this > article which is, conjecture, innuendo and supposition but demand that > any counter story be documented by "evidence." That's pretty tough and, > frankly, I'm not up to the task as my knowledge is with electric power > plants -- not oil refineries. > > They do, of course, share some important characteristics and so I'll > give it a try. The approach will be from two perspectives -- first, > I'll explain some power plant construction practices that contradict the > refinery story; second, I'll offer another review of the nature of the > "embedded" systems that might be at issue. > > Power Plant (and refinery) construction . . . . > > Remember, power plants and refineries are: > o Capital intensive > o Make increased use of computerized process control systems > o Operate a continuous manufacturing/conversion process employing high > temperatures and pressures. > > Typical design life of a coal-fired power plant is 40 years. During > that period, any number of components *will* fail and *will have to be > replaced.* Wouldn't make much sense to put a $500million investment at > risk 'cause a $20.00 part failed in some inaccessible location. Thus > EVERYTHING is accessible. > > You want evidence and I'm not about to take you on a power plant tour > but even if you've never been inside a power plant the construction > practice is similar to that found in many other industrial settings and, > if you've ever been aboard a naval vessel or taken a cruise, ships. > These settings are nothing like your home (or even an office) with all > the infrastructure components nicely hidden behind walls -- pipes are > exposed and clearly labeled -- power and control cables are laid in > exposed cable trays and risers. Electronic components are often mounted > in racks with easy access from front and back -- probably not at all > like your computer or home theatre configuration. All this is to PERMIT > MAINTENANCE, REPAIR and MODIFICATION. > > So you need to understand that the problem isn't just maintenance, in > general, or for y2k. Process plants need to be modified frequently -- > market conditions demand a change in inputs or outputs. Can't get > enough sweet crude? Exxon doesn't close the refinery -- they modify it > to handle the new feedstock (I got the grand tour from a fellow I knew > who worked at Exxon's Baton Rouge refinery, years ago). > > Want some pictures? Here are a few from several "continuous process" > industries: http://www.powerprocesspiping.com/, > http://www.bdmechanical.com/ppiping.htm, > http://silverweb.nf.ca/m&m/cb-p&p.htm, and > http://www.shambaugh.com/process.htm. > > Now consider the nature of these embedded components. This has been the > subject of much discussion in csy2k. I'd like to suggest that there are > three broad categories of components in this context: > > o The control system(s) -- SCADA -- one or more intelligent nodes build > on traditional minicomputer, or more recently, microprocessor-based > server technology. These are very accessible -- they're in, adjacent > to, or very near, the control room. In an even more modern "distributed > control system," some of the capability will be located in different > areas of the plant. Nevertheless, they still have to be very accessible > -- stuff breaks -- memories get hard, multibit errors, disk drives fail, > etc. > > o Remote devices -- the control systems can't run without data and so > you have dozens to thousands of remotes -- devices that measure process > parameters (temperature, pressure, mass flow, volumetric flow, > acceleration and mechanical position (valve position or tank levels)) > and a smaller number of remotes that can act on SCADA commands (start a > motor, open a valve, etc.) Though most of these devices are pretty > dumb, some may have a bit of silicon-based intelligence and therefore > susceptible to y2k problems. BUT, they all have to be accessible > because 1) they malfunction or need to be recalibrated and 2) plant > modifications often require removal/replacement to accommodate process > changes. > > o Embedded systems -- I think that the consensus is that the real > embedded systems are those systems that are not obviously run by a > computer -- the power plants water chemistry analyzer or the refineries > gas chromatograph. These are on the site but they're not in the "plant" > -- they're in the lab -- very accessible. > > Now "accessible" doesn't always mean you can walk right up and touch > it! Guess where the flue gas monitoring remotes (temperature, opacity) > are located -- top of the boiler or in the stack. But here's the > scenario -- opacity indicator increases (flue gas has more smoke in it) > but the stack gas "looks" clear. Do you shut down the plan on > environment limits or do you send a maintenance man to replace the > remote? > > Now is it possible that conditions would be different at an oil > refinery. Sure, like I wrote at the beginning, I'm not really familar > with these. But, really, we'd be looking at some obtuse examples -- > imagine that rather than using a tank level indicator to see how much > gasoline is in a tank, someone came up with the bright idea of putting a > strain gauge *under* the tank and determing the amount of product in the > tank but computing the weight on the gauge and using that to compute the > amount of product. The device fails and, we'll all agree, it is not > practical to replace it. > > Does the refinery stop using the tank? I wouldn't think so. They > retrofit a traditional tank level indicator (float) to provide the > needed information. > > HTH, > > SAG ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Rob S Date: 02-Dec-98 Time: 17:02:18 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From jim_finder at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 14:49:56 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:49:56 +0800 Subject: Matt Blaze arrested??? Message-ID: <19981202221915.26253.qmail@hotmail.com> >Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:36:51 -0500 >From: Matt Blaze > >I'm afraid you're confused. Whoever this report was about, it >wasn't me: > >* I'm not at Lucent Bell Labs. (I'm at AT&T Shannon Labs.) I'm not > aware of any other Blaze at either AT&T or Lucent, however. >* I'm not a mathematician. (I'm a computer scientist.) >* I've not been to ORD, or any other midwestern airport, > since August. (I do fly a lot, though). >* I never been arrested. (I did accently set off the antitheft > detector at a local bookstore once, but they let me go > when I showed them my reciept). > >-matt > Thanks for clarifying this! I'm very sorry to have started an unfounded rumor but I'm glad to know that you haven't been arrested. Thankfully, it looks like everyone assumed that I was just making this up, so I hope no serious damage was done and that the rumor didn't spread. That said, there <*was*> a radio report. It was on WBEZ 91.5 last night, and, as I said, I only heard the last part of the report. It was a news report about an arrest made at the O'Hare airport for something involving mathematics and foreign governments. I was almost 100% sure they said it was Blaze of Bell Labs who was arrested, but I guess it possible that I misheard. Perhaps they were quoting you or talking about you for some other reason. I remember that someone at bell labs (you???) had some problems with export authorities a few years ago, and maybe this is what they were talking about? Anyway, has anyone heard any more about this story, now that we know it wasn't Matt Blaze who was arrested? Humble Apologies, Jim PS I'm using a non-work account because I work for a large Chicagoland company that does some crypto business and I <*do not*> want to be seen as representing them on the cypherpunks list. Some of the work they do goes against cypherpunk (and my own) goals, and I'd rather not have people think I'm speaking for them. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 14:58:53 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:58:53 +0800 Subject: SASMF, Part 1 Message-ID: <199812022206.XAA29326@replay.com> Space Aliens Stole My Freedom, Part 1 Know Your Gutless SheepleCustomer(TM) Let's just take a peek at how the new FDIC proposed reg would look if transposed into an FCC setting: ----- "Know Your Customer" Requirements AGENCY: Federal Communications Commission ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking. SUMMARY: The FCC is proposing to issue regulations requiring FCC-supervised communications carriers to develop and maintain "Know Your Customer" programs. As proposed, the regulations would require each carrier to develop a program designed to determine the identity of its customers; determine its customers' sources of communicated information; determine the normal and expected calls of its customers; monitor account activity for calls that are inconsistent with those normal and expected callss; and report any calls of its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FCC's existing suspicious activity reporting regulations. By requiring communication carriers to determine the identity of their customers, as well as to obtain knowledge regarding the legitimate activities of their customers, the proposed regulations will reduce the likelihood that communications carriers will become unwitting participants in illicit activities conducted or attempted by their customers. It also will level the playing field between carriers that already have adopted formal Know Your Customer programs and those that have not. --- Minimum steps to take to comply with the Know Your Customer rule. Identify the customer. If a communication carrier offers private leased communication services, it is important that the carrier understand a customer's personal and business background, source of information to be communicated, and intended use of the private leased communication services. --- The extent of the information regarding the customer that may be necessary to fulfill the carrier's Know Your Customer obligations should depend on a risk-based assessment of the customer and the calls that are expected to occur, and should be addressed within the communication carrier's Know Your Customer program. --- Determine the source of information. Paragraph (d)(2)(ii) requires that the Know Your Customer program provide a system for determining the source of a customer's information. The amount of information needed to do this can depend on the type of customer in question. Determine normal and expected calls. Paragraph (d)(2)(iii) requires that the Know Your Customer program provide a system for determining a customer's normal and expected calls involving the communication carrier. A carrier's understanding of a customer's normal and expected calls should be based on information obtained both when an account is opened and during a reasonable period of time thereafter. It also should be based on normal calls for similarly situated customers. Without this information, an institution is unable to identify suspicious calls. Monitor the calls. Paragraph (d)(2)(iv) requires that the Know Your Customer program provide a system for monitoring, on an ongoing basis, the calls conducted by customers to identify calls 'that are inconsistent with the normal and expected calls for particular customers or for customers in the same or similar categories or classes.' The proposed regulation does not require that every call of every customer be reviewed. Rather, it requires that a financial institution develop a monitoring system that is commensurate with the risks presented by the accounts maintained at that institution. Determine if call should be reported. Once a call is identified as inconsistent with normal and expected calls, paragraph (d)(2)(v) requires that a communication carrier determine if the call warrants the filing of a Suspicious Activity Report. This is consistent with an carrier's existing obligations under 12 CFR 353.3(a). --- A. Reasons for and objectives of the proposed rule. The proposed Know Your Customer rule is designed to deter and detect communication crimes, such as obscene phone calls, getting tax advice, and discussing the Constitution. B. Requirements of the proposed rule. The proposed rule would require communication carrier to identify their customers, determine their customers' normal and expected calls, determine their customers' sources of information communicated in calls, monitor calls to find those that are not normal and expected, and, for calls that are not normal and expected, identify which are suspicious. Know Your Customer monitoring would be similar to monitoring that communication carriers already do. For example, communication carriers monitor customer calls to ensure that calling volumes exceeding 10,000 per month are reported under the Communications Secrecy Act, to ensure that customers do not overuse their telephones, and to ensure that required calls are accurate and timely. ----- Editor's Note: Putting this in an FCC context makes it pretty clearly bizarre and unconstitutional, doesn't it? Where do these fuckers get off pulling this Nazi shit? Just to carry it all the way into Wonderland, we've drawn up this questionnaire, also in the telephone context: Sample Questionnaire 1. Is this a __residential or __business account? 2. Approximately how many calls do you expect per month? a. Incoming ____ b. Outgoing ____ 3. List the subject matter of expected calls (use extra sheets if necessary: ____ 4. List the telephone numbers from which you expect to receive calls (use extra sheets, etc.) ____ 5. List the telephone numbers to which you expect to place calls (use extra, etc.):____ 6. List the names of people with whom you expect to speak: 7. List the Social Security numbers of people with whom you expect to speak: ____ 8. List the political organizations to which you belong: 9. List the political organizations to which people with whom you expect to speak belong: ____ 10. Are any of the organizations in (8) or (9) on the Attorney General's list? Yes__ No__ 11. If the answer to (10) was Yes, do you have a current and valid waiver for that (those) organization(s)? Yes__ No__ 12. If the answer to (11) was No, proceed directly to federal prison. Do not pass urine; do not collect $200 from any ATM. 13. Do you regularly call your mother? Yes__ No__ 14. If the answer to (13) was Yes, list the topics you commonly talk about with your mother (use extra, etc.) 15. What are your sources of information for your telephone conversations?____ 16. List all facts known to you, about which you expect to speak in your telephone calls:____ 17. List all times at which you expect to receive or place calls:____ 18. Attach transcripts of all conversations you expect to have. In lieu of transcripts, recordings may be attached. 19. Staple this form to your head, jam a toilet plunger handle up your ass, waddle to the nearest telephone, dial "1" and say, "I'm ready. Pick me up." Wait at your front door. ----- FuckingFedUpMonger From cmcmanis at freegate.com Wed Dec 2 16:02:57 1998 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:02:57 +0800 Subject: L5 algorithm patent, and free eval version In-Reply-To: <199812022046.VAA14983@replay.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19981202152724.00a17ea0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 09:46 PM 12/2/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >Now that L5 has been patented, will you and your colleagues at Jaws >Technology make the L5 algorithm details available to the professional >cryptography community for independant verification. Could you also >provide the Canadian and/or US patent numbers? L5 has NOT been patented. The company simply announced it had been "accepted" which is in itself a non-sequitor since patents aren't "accepted." My guess is that the patent was filled and the application was "allowed." This means that the information in the patent has passed the examiner's preliminary examination for fitness (which is to say it isn't one of the things that are disallowed by the patent office.) This actually doesn't mean SQUAT since thousands of patents get "allowed" and then "returned" because they don't meet more stringent tests such as non-obviousness, do what the claims say they do, restate prior art, etc, etc. However I do believe that disclosure at this point would be premature because some of the things that examiner may ask may require the patent be rewritten substantially. --Chuck From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 16:26:58 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:26:58 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812022357.AAA25807@replay.com> Anonymous wrote: >Check out this bit of american slavery: > >"Failing to register or otherwise comply with the >Military Selective Service Act is, upon conviction, >punishable by a fine of up to $250,000, impris- >onment for up to five years, or both. A person >who knowingly counsels, aids or abets another to >fail to comply with the Act is subject to the same >penalties." Even more interesting is the fact that Congress was going to do away with the Selective Service a few years ago but President Clinton (accused of draft dodging during the Vietnam War) opposed getting rid of it. From schneier at counterpane.com Wed Dec 2 16:40:05 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:40:05 +0800 Subject: L5 algorithm patent, and free eval version In-Reply-To: <199812022046.VAA14983@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812030018.SAA18851@baal.visi.com> At 03:42 PM 12/2/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote: >At 09:46 PM 12/2/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >>Now that L5 has been patented, will you and your colleagues at Jaws >>Technology make the L5 algorithm details available to the professional >>cryptography community for independant verification. Could you also >>provide the Canadian and/or US patent numbers? > >L5 has NOT been patented. The company simply announced it had been >"accepted" which is in itself a non-sequitor since patents aren't >"accepted." My guess is that the patent was filled and the application was >"allowed." This means that the information in the patent has passed the >examiner's preliminary examination for fitness (which is to say it isn't >one of the things that are disallowed by the patent office.) This actually >doesn't mean SQUAT since thousands of patents get "allowed" and then >"returned" because they don't meet more stringent tests such as >non-obviousness, do what the claims say they do, restate prior art, etc, >etc. However I do believe that disclosure at this point would be premature >because some of the things that examiner may ask may require the patent be >rewritten substantially. It could mean that a set of claims were allowed. I have been involved in several patents. Generally, you submit the patent and then a year and a half later the patent office responds. This is the "first office action." Sometimes the claims are rejeted, sometimes some of them are allowed. Then you send a letter back to the patent office, and maybe draft new claims. Eventually (there may be a second office action) a series of claims are allowed, meaning that they will be included in the patent. It can be another six months before the patent issues. I expect that's what the L5 people were talking about. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Wed Dec 2 20:45:58 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:45:58 +0800 Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS! guys! Message-ID: sorry if you're angry with this ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "If a student is particular about his studies, especially while he is too young to know which are useful and which are not, we shall say he is no lover of learning or of wisdom; just as, if he were dainty about his food, we should say he was not hungry or fond of eating, but had a poor appetite. " ---- PLATO By the way, it's Bernie not Bernardo. `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` From declan at well.com Wed Dec 2 20:46:58 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:46:58 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Code Red privacy workshops Message-ID: <199812030425.UAA01622@smtp.well.com> >Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 23:19:16 0 >From: simon davies >Subject: Code Red privacy workshops > > > > >PLEASE DISTRIBUTE > >PRIVACY INTERNATIONAL ANNOUNCES >THE "CODE RED" PRIVACY WORKSHOPS > > >Friends and colleagues, > >In 1999, Privacy International - the international privacy >campaign organisation - will host a series of privacy workshops to >be held in Brighton throughout the year on the second weekend of >each month. > >The workshops will have four purposes : > >1. To brainstorm current privacy (and privacy related) issues; > >2. To plan future events and campaigns; > >3. To provide occasional training sessions in technical issues, media >skills, campaigning etc, and, > >4. To give us all an opportunity to network and to have huge >amounts of evening/night fun in sunny Brighton. > >We called the workshops "Code Red" because.....well.....because it >sounds cool. No other reason. > >We chose Brighton as the venue for the workshops because of the >mass of PI members and supporters there who can offer a billet (i.e. >free accommodation if you can stand sleeping with the cat/ dog/ >mainframe humm/ sound system/ travelling hippies etc etc.). > >The workshops are open to campaigners, IT experts, academics, journalists and >anyone involved in the pursuit of privacy protection. >Chatham House rules will apply to the workshops. > >The 1999 dates will be : > > January 9 & 10 > February 13 & 14 > March 13 & 14 > April 10 & 11 > May 8 & 9 > June 12 & 13 > July 10 & 11 > August 7 & 8 > September 11 & 12 > October 9 & 10 > November 13 & 14 > December 11 & 12 > > >The Standing Agenda will be : > >Saturday 13.00 - 14.00 Amateur buffet lunch and guest speaker > > 14.00 - 18.00 : Briefing and discussion of curent issues > > 18.00 - : pubbing, dining and clubbing in Brighton > >Sunday 11.00 - 15.00 : Follow-up from Saturday, campaign strategy, >ad-hoc training sessions, comprehensive briefing sessions, and forward >planning (can be extend if required). > >Within this agenda, the subject matter is flexible, and the sessions >are likely to cover a range of themes including internet privacy, >censorship, data protection law, workplace surveillance, >communications interception, police powers, national security and >visual surveillance. > >Anyone wanting to participate should call Simon Davies on 0958 466 >552. There will be no cost, though a contribution of a few quid for >food would be gratefully received if you can afford it. > >BLOCK OUT THE DATES IN YOUR YOUR DIARY NOW !! > >We're looking forward to seeing you. > >Best wishes > >Simon Davies >Director, >Privacy International > >email simon at privacy.org > >www.privacy.org/pi/ > From declan at well.com Wed Dec 2 21:20:28 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:20:28 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Emergency Powers and National Emergencies Message-ID: <199812030505.VAA11806@smtp.well.com> >X-Sender: declan at mail.well.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 >Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:56:10 -0500 >To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Emergency Powers and National Emergencies >Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu >Reply-To: declan at well.com >X-Loop: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >"The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the >means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call >reserve forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial >law, seize and control all menas of transportation, regulate all private >enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control >the lives of all Americans... > >"Most [of these laws] remain a a potential source of virtually unlimited >power for a President should he choose to activate them. It is possible >that some future President could exercise this vast authority in an attempt >to place the United States under authoritarian rule. > >"While the danger of a dictatorship arising through legal means may seem >remote to us today, recent history records Hitler seizing control through >the use of the emergency powers provisions contained in the laws of the >Weimar Republic." > > --Joint Statement, Sens. Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles McMathias (R-MD) > September 30, 1973 > > >I came across this and the Senate special committee's 1973 report on >Emergency Powers Statutes in Time Magazine's library. Powerful stuff. > >-Declan > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Dec 2 21:21:25 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:21:25 +0800 Subject: Fun at US Customs Message-ID: <199812030507.XAA23418@wire.insync.net> Apparently, US Customs doesn't even need a warrant to detain you for days without the opportunity to talk to an attorney, x-ray you, pump your stomach, give you laxatives, chain you to a hospital bed, or insert their arms up to the elbow in one of your body openings. Are laws of other Western nations similar? While I can understand strip-searching travelers on occasion, the rest of this stuff seems a tad much, especially in the absense of anything resembling due process. Declan didn't write this, so I will post the whole thing. :) ----- WASHINGTON (AP) -- Returning to Chicago from Jamaica, Gwendolyn Richards was plucked from a line of air travelers by a Customs Service inspector and ordered into a bare, windowless room. Over the next five hours, she was strip-searched, handcuffed, X-rayed, and probed internally by a doctor. The armed Customs officers who led Richards in handcuffs through O'Hare International Airport and drove her to a hospital for examination suspected she might be smuggling drugs. They found nothing. ``I was humiliated -- I couldn't believe it was happening,'' said Richards, who is black and has joined a civil rights lawsuit against Customs. ``They had no reason to think I had drugs.'' Richards, 27, isn't alone. Officers last year ordered partial or full strip searches or X-rays for 2,447 airline passengers, and found drugs on 27 percent of them, according to figures compiled by the Customs Service. Customs officials say tough tactics are necessary to catch the growing number of smugglers who swallow cocaine-filled balloons, insert packages of heroin into their body cavities, even hide drugs in a hollow leg or under cover of a fake pregnancy. ``We still have a major drug problem in this country,'' Customs Commissioner Raymond Kelly said in an interview Wednesday. ``We have to do this.'' Richards and others who have sued Customs have alleged they were targeted because of their race. Sixty percent of those pulled aside last year for body searches or X-rays were black or Hispanic, Customs figures show. Thirty-three percent of Hispanics who were searched were found to have drugs compared with 31 percent of blacks and 26 percent of whites. Kelly said race isn't a factor. ``There are higher risk countries and higher risk flights,'' he said. ``Those flights may be more populated by a particular ethnic group.'' Last year, the Customs Service seized 858 pounds of cocaine and 803 pounds of heroin attached to or inside international air travelers' bodies, officials said. More than 70 percent of the heroin seized at airports was smuggled that way. Acknowledging that searches ``can get pretty traumatic,'' Kelly said Customs is reviewing its policies and experimenting with new technology that might reduce the number of body searches. The review comes after several lawsuits and complaints from travelers who say they suffered abusive treatment and hours of confinement. For instance: --A Florida mother says her baby was born prematurely because Customs officials forced her to take a prescription laxative when she was seven months pregnant. In a lawsuit filed last month, Janneral Denson, 25, said she was taken from the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport and shackled to a hospital bed for two days so inspectors could watch her bowel movements. She says her son, born 12 days later, suffered damage. --Two Jamaican-born U.S. citizens each filed a $500,000 claim in September over body cavity searches and X-rays in Tampa, Fla. One of the women learned afterwards she was pregnant and agonized that her fetus might have been harmed, according to their attorney, Warren Hope Dawson. The baby was born healthy. Customs policy requires a pregnancy test before a woman is X-rayed, but Dawson said the pregnant woman was not tested. --A 51-year-old widow returning from an around-the-world trip was held for 22 hours at a San Francisco hospital, x-rayed and given the same powerful laxative. Amanda Buritica of Port Chester, N.Y., won a $451,001 lawsuit last February. A Boston nurse, Bosede Adedeji, won $215,000 in a similar lawsuit in 1991. Customs officials note that fewer than 2 percent of the 68 million fliers who pass through Customs each year have their luggage opened. Far fewer -- about 49,000 people -- are personally searched, usually with a pat down. The 1,772 strip searches last year ranged from people told to remove their socks to passengers like Richards who were ordered to take off their underwear and bend over. Strip searches are performed by officers of the same gender. The Customs review found 19 passengers who were subjected to pelvic or rectal exams by doctors while inspectors watched. Drugs were found in 12 of those cases. Congress and courts have given Customs broad authority to search for drugs, weapons and other illegal imports. The Supreme Court ruled that Customs officers at airports and border crossings don't need the probable cause or warrants that police need to search possessions. Customs officers can perform a strip search based on ``reasonable suspicion'' that someone might be hiding something illegal. A Customs handbook obtained by The Associated Press advises officers that reasonable suspicion usually requires a combination of factors, including someone who: appears nervous, wears baggy clothing, gives vague or contradictory answers about travel plans, acts unusually polite or argumentative, wears sunglasses or acts sick. Race isn't cited. Customs officers can detain people for hours, even days, without allowing them a telephone call to a lawyer or relative or charging them with a crime. Inspectors say they keep detainees from making calls so that drug associates aren't tipped off. Generally, if someone is detained for eight hours or more, a federal prosecutor is notified. Richards is among more than 80 black females who filed a class-action lawsuit claiming they were singled out for strip searches at O'Hare because of race and gender. The plaintiffs include a 15-year-old girl, a mentally retarded woman, and a woman who uses a wheelchair. Many decided to sue after seeing news reports on Chicago's WMAQ-TV about strip searches of black women. The agency has hired an outside contractor to review how inspectors deal with the public, and is exploring ways to make the system less hostile. In a test at Miami and New York airports, some passengers selected for strip searches are given the option of having an X-ray instead. The service is also studying new imaging technology that shows things hidden under people's clothes. Customs officers seek passengers' written consent for an X-ray, but it isn't required. Some travelers say they felt coerced. Las Vegas police officer Rich Cashton said a Customs inspector who stopped him at Los Angeles International Airport last year grew angry when Cashton asked what would happen if he refused an X-ray. ``He said, 'If you don't sign this form, I'm going to take you down to the hospital and pump your stomach,'' Cashton recalled. ``He was using that threat as intimidation to make me sign a consent form, which is definitely illegal.'' Cashton, who identified himself as a police officer, was let go. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 21:46:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:46:03 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: <199812030527.GAA29380@replay.com> Hello, I'm Special Agent Murfrock of the IRS and this is Special Agent Prenfrew. We'd like to speak with you about C. J. Parker, maybe known to you as "Toto" or "TruthMonger..." Sorry, I don't recognize any of those. Isn't Toto the dog? The dog? Yes, Dorothy's dog in... (stops when he notices that the agents are scribbling furiously in their notebooks) May we come in? No, I was just about to go to sleep. I'm not well. Sorry to hear that. We have an e-mail here that you sent to Toto, and another he sent back to you... May I see those? (takes the printouts) Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. Well, if you look at those headers, the ones circled in red, you will see that... You must be kidding! There are more people forging e-mail headers than live in St. Louis! Everybody knows that. Would you mind if we just come in for a moment? Yes, I would. I told you, I am going to sleep. Would you mind if we look at your computer? Why would you want to do that? Well if you didn't send or receive these messages, you have nothing to worry about. I don't see any reason to do that. We can get a warrant, very quickly, as a matter of fact. If you cooperate, things will go better for you. I love to cooperate. I want to cooperate. I am cooperating to the fullest extent I believe is required of me. Ask me something that makes sense and I'll answer it. Have you ever heard of a group called the Cypherpunks? It rings a bell. Are you a member? No. How do you explain the fact that we found your e-mail address on a Cypherpunks membership list in a computer we seized? I have no idea. I don't join organizations. Are you a member of the Majordomo organization? No. The only majordomo I've ever heard of is a mail list manager. Where have you seen this Majordomo? Oh, everywhere. I think it's worldwide in scope. (scribble scribble) It's some kind of utility program. Everybody uses it. (scribbling stops) What can you tell us about it? Nothing, really. If you want to get on a mail list you send a "subscribe" message to a majordomo. If you want to get off, I think you send an "unscrive" message. Have you ever done that? Maybe. I don't recall. Anyone can submit your e-mail address to lists, so you don't even have to subscribe to be on an e-mail list. And there's so much spam these days that I don't recognize half the stuff I get. Spam? (the agents look at each other) Junk e-mail. I delete most of my e-mail without even reading it. Sometimes my email program crashes and it all gets deleted before I can look at it. (scribble scribble) How many lists have you joined? I don't remember. I never paid any attention to those things, and since I banged my head three months ago, I haven't been remembering a lot of things. (scribble scribble) So, are you denying being a member of the Cypherpunks? I don't know what that means. Have you ever subscribed to the Cypherpunks e-mail list? I have no idea. You have no idea? You don't remember? I don't know what I've subscribed to, unsubscribed from, what I get, don't get. E-mail is a complete mess and I ignore most of it. I'm really not very good at those things. May we look? No. Are you going to make us get a warrant? Get what you like. My disk crashed last week and I threw it away. Lost everything. In fact I just formatted my new disk and the only data on it is manuscripts for the columns I write. Columns? I write for a magazine and a couple of newspapers. (oh shit) (scribble scribble) Oh yeah? Which ones? I don't think that's appropriate. Well, we'll be back. Here's my card in case you think of anything you'd like to tell us. Sure. One more thing. Have you ever been invited to join something called The Circle of Eunuchs, e-u-n-u-c-h-s? I don't recall ever hearing of anything like that. Do you know who Tim May is? Nope. Sounds like a real common name, though. How about Blanc? Is that French? Never mind. Thanks. We'll be seeing you. (I don't _think_ so) ----- AmnesiaMonger From blancw at cnw.com Wed Dec 2 22:05:46 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:05:46 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc> From Greg Broiles: : Just as a reasonable person will likely listen cautiously to an accused : person proclaiming their innocence, a reasonable person should also listen : cautiously when the prosecution proclaims someone's guilt. .......................................... Thanks for the advice, it hadn't occurred to me they might be spoofing. (On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court appearance), and asked that I also explain what I mean by "spoofing", as I had thus described what Toto might have been up to with those incendiary messages.) To their credit, I will say that they only told me more about Toto's activities during the course of our discussions regarding the point in time when someone is likely to be arrested based on their public expressions. They related that Toto had sent numerous threatening messages to the Mounties, and that although he had alarming info out on his website that was not a problem; that they took action only after he actually planted a bomb in one of their buildings. Then when I asked them as to why he was being tried in this area, rather than Canada or Texas or Arizona, they brought up that Toto had threatened the judge trying Jim's case (and also his other email regarding Billg). At least they were not offensive, but polite and pleasant, but it's true one should keep one's mind on the facts - the pertinent facts, the pertinence *of* the facts, and no other facts. I myself, of course, would never lie. Unless I had to. : ) "Well, it depends on what your definition of 'is' is . . . " What a great Leader, and a Lawyer, showing us how to deal with the Law. .. Blanc From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 22:06:28 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:06:28 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: <199812030552.GAA30881@replay.com> On marte, 01.12.1998, "Blanc" wrote: > I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking > about CJ/Toto. Pre-schoolers'R'Us. You got a visit from the advance guys. > It seems that they had a copy of two emails...one of them the one > in which I chastized him for sending a threatening letter to Billg. Admissions, admissions. Would some duly licensed bar attorney on this list PUH-LEEZE tell these children how to behave in the presence of criminal inquisitors? > They wanted to know about my associations with Toto (I still think > of him by that name), of course, of which I had none except through > email. So _you_ say! They open doors; you walk through them; you can easily find yourself in Wonderland. Don't come crying to _me_! > In our conversation, There is no such thing as a "conversation" with them; there is only an "interrogation." Everything you say is interpreted as an admission, a denial, or an evasion. You are a perp. You are dogshit. > I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's situation: You mean you heard more _allegations_? If you're not careful, your neighbours will be the next ones to be "discovering things we didn't know" about _you_. That's the way they turn people against targets, and anyone they interview can become another target in the blink of an eye. > that he had sent threatening letters to the Mounties, Alleged, and only to _you_ as far as you know... > and that he had threated to kill the judge trying Jim's case. Alleged, and only to _you_ as far as you know... > I'm afraid CJ really went over the edge here and backed himself up > in a corner. GodDAMN! I'm glad you're not a friend of mine! I don't know if I even want to _know_ whether you're wearing panties or not anymore. > I should have chastized him more severely and counseled him against > rash acts of unkindness (not that I hold myself responsible for what > he did, but he did pay attention to me). Geez! I wonder what you must gush up about your _enemies_! > Kind of amusingly, one of them asked if CJ had ever asked me to join > the Circle of Eunuchs! heh. Yeah, that's funny. It should also have set off all your alarm bells that you're dealing with clueless fuckwits who can't find their fly without a map and whose only interest in life is putting anybody they can in prison, on any excuse whatsoever. If they can weave together a Circle of Eunuchs or a Cult of the Kernel or a conspiracy of Fanatic Followers of the Seashell, they'll be content to do it. You could tell them that the leader of the militant arm of the Circle is the infamous but cryptic "General Error" and they'd write it down with a straight face. To you, it's a joke. To them, it's a statement with possible evidentiary value. And nothing's funny. > I explained that it was Toto's Art imitating Life, creating stories You don't explain _anything_ to them. You can only give them leads and evidence. Of course, if you *insist* on having such a fucking good memory and on gushing on about all sorts of things, well, don't be surprised if they conclude that you _do_ know a lot about this Toto stuff, after all, and maybe merit another, more probing interview. > We had a bit of discussion on a number of things, I'll _bet_ you did! Sounds like you made a nearly _perfect_ subject for interrogation. > including the subject of free speech and how close one can get to it > before being subject to arrest. Ooooooo! That sounds _delicious_! You can entertain attorneys with that one. You will be thrilled at the wondrous range of awful expressions they make. Some may even quietly throw up in a corner. > I asked them what that crucial point was when this would happen, > since there is no crime until action is actually taken. Shows how much _you_ know. And now you get your legal advice from the IRS CID? That's really bright. > They said this would be when... > I referenced as an example the web site... Nice of them. Did they indemnify should you rely on their advice and get busted or sued? Didn't think so. > One of the investigators also brought up the issue of... > I remarked that one must always be prepared for the unexpected... > they made some points about taking threats seriously... "Hyperseriously" is more like it. You're a regular motormouth, aren't you? Now they have you knowing a lot more about Toto-ish things than just the email showed, they have you red-flagged as "attempting to draw the agent into arguments about law or the Constitution," they have you flagged as being way too bright for an innocent person, and demonstrating an interest in discussing the technicalities of the law on threats to public officials, which interest, just coincidentally, happens to dovetail quite nicely with the essential subject matter of their investigation. I'd give pretty good odds you're going to get another visit. If you don't have a lawyer present on the next one, I'd say you're, uh, sorry, there's just no other word: _stupid_. > I asked if cypherpunks would actually be subpoenaed to appear at > CJ's trial. They said it depends on CJ: if he accepts a deal, he > would likely get a reduced sentence, but if he takes them to trial > then there could be quite a number of Cpunks called forth. Ooooooo! Lovely! FUD! Big time FUD! Divide and conquer FUD! CJ becomes the bad guy for not cutting a deal and instead inconveniencing all those busy Cpunks, all of them probably suddenly writing code instead of flaming each other in endless and pointless threads of non-crypto! > I suggested if that happens we could all go out to dinner > : ) and they thought this would be quite interesting. Of _course_ it would! More "conversation," leads, admissions, denials and evasions! More grist for the mill! More perps! Get them to pick up the tab -- they'll be able to put it on their expense reports! It's called an informal group interrogation. Geez, how can bright people be so fucking STUPID? > One of the investigators expressed a great interest in the cpunk > dicussions and concepts; Doh! It's his _job_ to be interested in a subject matter touching on an active investigation. > I described...I'm sure given a little time and several dinners we > could convert him to the Dark Side. Geez! Don't you realize that they _are_ the Dark Side! Have you been living under a rock for the last few decades? "You know, Gunther, those Gestapo men who visited last night to ask about the Goldblums next door were very polite. One of them expressed great interest in concepts and discussions of Judaism, and Jewish family trees. I described something of what the religion is about and referred him to some libraries and gave him some titles to read. I'm sure, given a little time and several dinners, we could convert him to our side." Right. Maybe you understand now why I'm not on the Cpunks list? RabidFreedomMonger From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 2 22:33:57 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:33:57 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: <199812030612.HAA32547@replay.com> I have this really, really bad memory problem. It gets worse under stress. I also have this metaphysical dilemma thing. I know the guy next door. I guess. Actually I don't know him. I've called him Joe, but it wouldn't be right for me to say to anyone official that his name is Joe, because I've never checked his ID, so I don't really know, and even if I had checked his ID, I still wouldn't _know_, would I? He's always been a nice fellow, and I wouldn't want to cause him undeserved harm by leaping to conclusions about him. Does he have a wife? I don't know. I may have seen a woman around his place, but I couldn't leap to the conclusion that she is his wife. I might assume so out of courtesy to them, but I wouldn't presume to tell someone official that he is Joe or that he has a wife, because I really don't know. Most of what I _think_ I know, and which serves quite well for inviting each other to our barbeques and for borrowing small tools, is stuff I don't actually _know_ and don't care about one way or another. And that affects my memory when people ask questions about him. Did I see those two young men snatch a purse from that lady over there? Yes. Can I describe them? Yes. Did I notice what they were wearing and in which direction they ran? Yes. Do I know anything about Joe? Nope. Does he have a wife? I have no idea. What does he do for a living? Gosh, I have no idea. The law requires you to give up information you have when asked by a law enforcement officer investigating a crime. The law does not and cannot require you to notice things or to have a good memory. If your memory gets worse as the things being investigated stray farther and farther from common law crimes and into the realm of "bureaucrime" and thought crime, well, that's just too fucking bad. I'd make a really bad juror, too. It's not a memory thing there, it's more of a comprehension thing. I just have trouble seeing guilt if the law itself is bogus. Not guilty. What? Are you crazy? They had him dead to rights laundering money! Sorry, I just can't believe the evidence. It just doesn't add up for me. Explain why not! Sorry, I can't. It just doesn't work for me. If more people had these problems, all the bureaucrimes and other victimless crimes would, sadly, be history overnight. The IRS would lose every single case that went to a jury, and within months the income tax would be repealed, a no-audit, no-go-to- jail sales tax would be in place, and most of the people working for the IRS would be looking for a new job. I would be very saddened by the rude reality of all that, but, hey, what the hell? Will these problems that afflict me spread? You'd better hope your sorry ass they do! If they don't, we're all in for a very rough ride, and not 50 years from now, but tomorrow and next year. We're already well down the slippery slope. Personally, though, I think we're in for a shitstorm. That's because people are basically unprepared for the degree of evil that has been refined and distilled in government. They're still way too willing to spout off about things they don't even know, to presume the worst, even of their friends and acquaintances, to play full rube right into the hands of truly evil people who have _their_ act down to a science. If large scale genocide has been going on all through the last several years in Bosnia while people on this list have been consumed in flame wars and pseudo-propellor-head duels on a scale of delicacy of the medieval mace, how much more easily can and does largely bloodless subjugation take place all around us? If people can allow Ruby Ridges and Wacos to take place without congressional offices being _filled_ every day with outraged citizenry and recall petitions being launched for every politician who even hesitates in taking a firm stand, how can we think that the gradual sapping of our liberty will evoke a response until things first get very, very bad. There is a peaceful solution available today. At one level you don't have to have a good memory in all things to be a law- abiding and responsible citizen-unit. Just say "No, I don't remember" about things that are none of your business. At another level, you don't have to put up with bureaucrimes when you sit on a Grand Jury or a trial jury. Just say "No." Don't argue; don't convince; just say "No" across the board to bureaucrimes. It takes 51% of the voters to win an election. It only takes 5% of the jurors to kill a bad law. Nothing else will work. Nothing else has ever worked. If this is not done now, we will all face terrible choices and tragedies within as few as ten years. AmnesiaMonger From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Wed Dec 2 22:39:19 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:39:19 +0800 Subject: Fun at US Customs Message-ID: >Las Vegas police officer Rich Cashton said a Customs inspector who >stopped him at Los Angeles International Airport last year grew angry >when Cashton asked what would happen if he refused an X-ray. > >``He said, 'If you don't sign this form, I'm going to take you down to >the hospital and pump your stomach,'' Cashton recalled. ``He was using >that threat as intimidation to make me sign a consent form, which is >definitely illegal.'' > >Cashton, who identified himself as a police officer, was let go. "Sir, we'll have to ask you to come with us." "What is the problem, officer?" "We have reason to believe that you are bringing contraband into this country. Please remove your clothing and bend over." "Comrade, surely you must be mistaken! I am a loyal citizen!" "Remove your clothing and bend over or we'll do it for you, Libertarian scum." "Libertarian? You are mistaken, comrade! I am a loyal citizen! I am a card-carrying party member!" *shows card* "That's fine, Officer Cashton, if that is your real name, but how can we be sure that you are who you claim to be?" "My biometrics, of course, comrade!" *he's scanned* "Sorry for the mixup, Comrade Cashton. We're about to go find some pretty young 15 year old girls to strip search and do body cavity searches on, then temporarily plug their body cavities so that they do not use them in indecent ways or for smuggling contraband." "Comrade, whatever do you mean?" "Are you sure you're a fellow jack booted thug? Do you have your manual? You must have your manual at all times! Fine. You may borrow mine, comrade. Read the section titled 'Rape of the Citizenry'." "Ah, I understand now, comrade. I was not aware that such actions were permitted. Let's go." ***Fifteen minutes later*** Young woman 1: (crying) "What have we done, officers? I am loyal!" Young woman 2: (sobs incoherently) Customs Officer: "You are suspected of smuggling contraband into this country! You are traitors!" Young woman 1: "My sister and I most certaintly are NOT traitors!" Customs Officer: "Then prove it. Remove your clothing and submit to a body cavity search. Officer Cashton? Take your pick." *searches are performed* Customs Officer: "Now, ladies, we have concerns that you may attempt to smuggle contraband out after the body cavity search is performed." Young woman 2: (sobs incoherently) Young woman 1: (crying louder) "But there is no contraband here! How can we smuggle it out?" Officer Cashton: (removing a bag of cocaine from his pocket and throwing it at the women) "Yes there is." Customs Officer: "Ah, I see you are a quick study, Comrade Cashton! Now ladies, just to make sure you don't smuggle anything out in your body cavities, we've invited the ground crew here to fill them and lead you naked in chains to your flight after they tire of your company." Officer Cashton and Customs Officer together: (giving a Nazi-style salute) "Heil Klinton! Heil Reno! Heil Freeh!" ...... StatistMonger From gbroiles at netbox.com Wed Dec 2 23:14:07 1998 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:14:07 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Blanc wrote: > (On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made > regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court > appearance) My evidence books are packed in a moving box (sigh) at the moment, so please take this with a grain of salt, but the only reason I see to ask you to write anything down is to use it against you, either as a witness or as a defendant. Your written statement is considered hearsay and wouldn't be admissible at Toto's trial .. unless the prosecution was using it to impeach you in the event that you testified, in which case it would be admissible solely for the purpose of making you look like a liar. (If the statement also tends to cast Toto in a poor light, the prosecution probably won't lose any sleep over the spillover effects on the jury.) If either side in a trial (especially a criminal trial) thinks you've got something useful to say, they're going to need to put you on the witness stand in front of the jury/judge and let you make your statements, and be cross-examined, in person. Statements made out of court won't be admissible to prove the truth of the matter they're discussing, unless the situation happens to fit into one of a series of narrow exceptions. One of the biggest exceptions is called "statements made by the opposing party", aka "statements by the defendant" in a criminal trial. Another is to impeach a witness with a prior inconsistent statement, where the prior statement is inconsistent with their testimony at trial. It smells like a setup to me. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 3 00:34:31 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:34:31 +0800 Subject: "Export" controls Message-ID: <199812030820.JAA08564@replay.com> >You sure it's not Microshaft? More meanings. Macroshit ? But I digress. >A little experiment is often a good thing. I heard that the guys who >made the DES cracker have had $$ requests for machines and/or chips. Their architecture has real $$ value because it cracks 99% of "encrypted" traffic. >In case you missed it, my original reply was an attempt to open >discussion on some type of cooperative effort. Offering the real stuff for sale in US requires some investment. Whether it is hardware (128-bit crypto engine on a PCI card ?) or software plug-in for the aforementioned OS that makes all traffic go through IPsec with 128-bit non-DES block cipher, some amount of money must be put to a risk. We are not talking here about free stuff. We are talking about products that can be deployed by non-programmers, businesses etc., that will be supported professionally (the perceived quality of professional support vs. free stuff is immaterial here.) >purposes. I wonder how many DES or IDEA engines could be put on a 500K >gate array? It would fit about 35 instantiations of Twofish. That should >be enough for a phone or a disk encryptor. Hardware is overkill for the single voice line. PGPfone works fine there. >Who want to get them done. <-- the key item If there is a demand, it will be done. Let's run a small poll: How much would you pay for transparent hardware/software solution that encrypts all traffic between peer users (assuming all rational crypto requirements are met, like available source code etc.) ? >No sense pushing the button without critical mass. The main problem with hard crypto is that it is so equalizing. Any pauper can cheaply encrypt and make it hard for any government to break. This is not the case with guns, where more resources almost linearly buy more power. - One of the posters mentioned that PGP is retailed in CompUSA. My mistake, I did not check them (but I did check 3 other big chains). - On the wild side, suppose that all crypto restrictions are terminated. Some would say that now "they" can break all available stuff. In any case the value of crypto products in the eyes of buyers would fall. If it is legal it is no good. Most of the research would lose the best people. Cypherpunks would cease to exist. A very dangerous proposition. From invalid_ban at hotmail.com Thu Dec 3 00:35:54 1998 From: invalid_ban at hotmail.com (COM PLAIN) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:35:54 +0800 Subject: What's Down ....!!!! Message-ID: <19981203080744.10865.qmail@hotmail.com> In this letter i wanna know some tricks how to take revange, of a operator by hacking his code ,, can you help me ??? in alamak chat www.alamak.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 3 04:01:18 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:01:18 +0800 Subject: blanc's MIB Message-ID: <199812031135.MAA20864@replay.com> At 11:54 PM 12/1/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: >I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto. How did you authenticate them, or why was it unnecessary? >Kind of amusingly, one of them asked if CJ had ever asked me to join the Circle >of Eunuchs! heh. Should have said, "I 'know nothing' about such things" One of the investigators >expressed a great interest in the cpunk dicussions and concepts; I described >something of what the list is about and the flow of subscribers through it, and >referred him to the archives, saying '94-'95 were some good years. I'm sure >given a little time and several dinners we could convert him to the Dark Side. Or he could have gotten more intelligence from you. From apf2 at apf2.com Thu Dec 3 04:37:56 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:37:56 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203110125.0072b774@209.204.247.83> >From frissell at panix.com: Some of the following statements do not (in my recollection) apply to those in California... > >The following statements are true: > >It is legal to own a car without a driver's license or vehicle registration. In CA only "junk" cars can be unregistered. An unregistered car on private property can be cited under a long list of circumstances. > >It is legal to drive an unregistered car without a driver's license (in >some circumstances). It is never "legal" to drive an unregistered vehicle (or even tow it without a trailer) on CA roads. The judge may let you off if you have "a real good reason". But the cops can and in most cases will cite you! > >No permission is required to purchase a car and felons, the mentally ill, >children, aliens and those guilty of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses >can buy cars and most of the above can drive cars on public streets and roads. I do believe that there are some legal restrictions for children purchasing cars... > >You are not required to report the purchase of a car to anyone. Since every car in CA MUST be registered, every change of ownership must be reported. If you do not you are subject to a fine. They give you ten days to report the transfer of ownership. > >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US with a >license from any jurisdiction on earth. Only for a limited period of time in CA... > >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is >registered in other states or nations. Not if the owner is a resident of CA, and again only for a limited period of time. > >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is >owned by and registered to any person or legal entity. > >Legal entities can own and register cars and permit anyone they like to >drive them. > But they assume all the liability and even possible criminal consequences for letting unlicensed persons drive the car. >Note that if we regulated guns like driving, the above would mean that you >could buy and use a gun on your own property without licensing, >registration or reporting. NOT in CA... > >DCF > From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Dec 3 05:10:50 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:10:50 +0800 Subject: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability In-Reply-To: <91222019014234@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <199812031239.MAA01783@server.eternity.org> Peter Gutmann writes: > >open-pgp public keys aren't based on X.509 keys, so I would've thought > >s/mime implementation would barf on them. > > Actually S/MIME *could* support the use of PGP keys, but there's a field > (the SubjectKeyIdentifier) missing from the CMS SignerInfo which prevents > this. Surely this in itself should be a compelling argument for inclusion of the SubjectKeyIdentifier? If it allows conversion of PGP keys into S/MIME X.509 keys. On the subject of whether one could get a PGP key to convert into an X.509 key such that it would function in the X.509 / S/MIME world, I'm not sure that much can be transferred into the S/MIME world. I think the public key parameters (actual bigints will transfer. I am less confident about certification transferring (third party signatures and self signatures on public keys). The reason I am unsure about this is that what is signed is not codified in ASN.1 in such a way that it would be ignored as an extension, but still hashed by an S/MIME implementation to obtain the same hash. Or perhaps more that it would cause an S/MIME implementation to complain of a corrupted certificate, even though the contents could theoretically be hashed to get the same hash for signature verification. Or, more specifically, how could a PGP certificate (self signed, or signed by someone in your web of trust) be transferred into X.509 such that the message digest of the signed information would be the same. Where a PGP certificate includes 0 1 CTB for secret-key-encrypted (signed) packet 1 2 16-bit (or maybe 8-bit) length of packet 3 1 Version byte, may affect rest of fields that follow. (=2) for PGP versions <= 2.5 (=3) for PGP versions >= 2.6 4 1 Length of following material that is implicitly included in MD calculation (=5). 5 1 Signature classification field (see below). Implicitly append this to message for MD calculation. 6 4 32-bit timestamp of when signature was made. Implicitly append this to message for MD calculation. 10 8 64-bit Key ID 18 1 Algorithm byte for public key scheme (RSA=0x01). --Algorithm byte affects field definitions that follow. 19 1 Algorithm byte for message digest (MD5=0x01). 20 2 First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we used the right RSA key to check the signature. All of these fields are non meaningful for an ASN.1 parser. Adam From jt9 at mail.dsd.it Thu Dec 3 21:48:41 1998 From: jt9 at mail.dsd.it (jt9 at mail.dsd.it) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:48:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hi Message-ID: <199812040530.GAA19346@www.dsd.it> Do you know what the number one factor is, that will determine whether your business is a success or not? ADVERTISING! Effective conventional advertising is quite expensive. So what do you do? Direct email is one of, if not thee most effective method of advertising in the 90's. You can get your ad out to hundreds of thousands, even millions, for only a fraction of the cost of traditional advertising. The wave of future advertising is here, don't miss it. We will send your advert for you. We have gone through painstaking methods to insure that we have the the most quality lists on the Internet. We send your ad for your, all you have to do is create it. 250,000 addresses - $199 350,000 addresses - $250 500,000 addresses - $350 1 million addresses - $700 For advertising to 3 million or more ask about our special rates. For more information or to place an ad call IMC Marketing at (909) 627-3557 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 3 06:00:54 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:00:54 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database (fwd) Message-ID: <199812031346.HAA19880@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:01:25 +0100 > From: "Albert P. Franco, II" > Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database > Some of the following statements do not (in my recollection) apply to those > in California... > > > >The following statements are true: > > > >It is legal to own a car without a driver's license or vehicle registration. > > In CA only "junk" cars can be unregistered. An unregistered car on private > property can be cited under a long list of circumstances. Only if they can see it. Otherwise they'd need to execute a warrant to even find it. Park it in a garage or a niche in the backyard, problem solved. > >No permission is required to purchase a car and felons, the mentally ill, > >children, aliens and those guilty of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses > >can buy cars and most of the above can drive cars on public streets and > roads. > > I do believe that there are some legal restrictions for children purchasing > cars... There are legal restrictions on children buying anything. Technicaly the sale isn't final without a guardians signature as co-signatory of the bill of sale. > >You are not required to report the purchase of a car to anyone. > > Since every car in CA MUST be registered, every change of ownership must be > reported. If you do not you are subject to a fine. They give you ten days > to report the transfer of ownership. In most states the time limit and further instructions are on the vehicle license. If you buy it via a loan then other terms may apply. > >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US with a > >license from any jurisdiction on earth. > > Only for a limited period of time in CA... Unless it's an international license that is recognized by the US this isn't true. Simply having a drivers license from England, for example, won't allow you to drive a vehicle in any of the states anymore than your CA license will let you drive legaly there. > >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is > >registered in other states or nations. > > Not if the owner is a resident of CA, and again only for a limited period > of time. Actualy as long as the owner isn't a resident (not the driver) and doesn't stay in whatever state over some period set by the legislature then it is permissible. In a lot of states it is between 30-90 days. I'd bet the limit in CA is the residence time limit. I rather doubt that anyone staying in CA 11 days automaticaly becomes a resident with a right to vote in state elections and such. > >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is > >owned by and registered to any person or legal entity. > > > >Legal entities can own and register cars and permit anyone they like to > >drive them. > > > > But they assume all the liability and even possible criminal consequences > for letting unlicensed persons drive the car. It depends on the insurance limitations. My Bronco II is technicly uninsured, and therefore illegal to drive, unless I am the driver. In some cases even if the driver is licensed the owner still assumes liability. At least here in Texas irrespective of who is driving the vehicle, the owner is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. So if you loan it to cousin Bippy and he has a wreck and runs away guess who gets to go to court on leaving-the-scene charges. Now if you roll on Bippy the situation may change. > >Note that if we regulated guns like driving, the above would mean that you > >could buy and use a gun on your own property without licensing, > >registration or reporting. > > NOT in CA... Move to Texas. You can still drive your unregistred, uninspected vehicle on your own property at your own speed and have wrecks at your convenience (within the constraints of your deed restrictions of course). Way too many bubba's still live in Texas for this sort of stuff to go over at all. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Dec 3 06:01:30 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:01:30 +0800 Subject: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability Message-ID: <91269213708678@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Adam Back writes: >Peter Gutmann writes: >>>open-pgp public keys aren't based on X.509 keys, so I would've thought >>>s/mime implementation would barf on them. >> >>Actually S/MIME *could* support the use of PGP keys, but there's a field >>(the SubjectKeyIdentifier) missing from the CMS SignerInfo which prevents >>this. >Surely this in itself should be a compelling argument for inclusion of the >SubjectKeyIdentifier? I'm trying to get this adopted for CMS, the underlying data format for S/MIME. The silly thing about this is that alternative key identifiers (like PGP keys) were going to be included in RSADSI's PKCS7v2, but aren't included in the IETF version of the same thing. The result is that you have a private company going out of its way to accomodate open standards, and the IETF going out of its way to lock them out. Weird. >If it allows conversion of PGP keys into S/MIME X.509 keys. You don't need this conversion, with key identifiers you can use both SPKI and PGP keys directly within S/MIME. There's no need to convert them into an X.509-like format first. Peter. From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Thu Dec 3 06:14:28 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:14:28 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <577a9c19504c58a7eb1caed621c66fa1@anonymous> >Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:24:01 +0800 (CST) >From: Bernardo B. Terrado >To: cypherpunks at toad.com, coderpunks at toad.com >Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS! guys! Fuck Christmas, Bernardo "Go Fuck Yourself" Terrado. You and those bastards in the black helicopters can suck my Christmas cock. >sorry if you're angry with this Why the fuck would I be angry? Go fuck yourself, Bernardo. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >"If a student is particular about his studies, especially while he is too >young to know which are useful and which are not, we shall say he is no >lover of learning or of wisdom; just as, if he were dainty about his food, >we should say he was not hungry or fond of eating, but had a poor >appetite. " ---- PLATO Wasn't Plato that cocksucker who didn't pay his taxes to THE MAN? >By the way, it's Bernie not Bernardo. >`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Oh FUCK! My apologies, Bernardo. If I had known you preferred "Bernie", then I would have told you to go fuck your mother instead of yourself. Warmest fucking regards to you and yer moms, -- PureFuck -- finger HillarysAsshole at whitehouse.gov for a good time From apf2 at apf2.com Thu Dec 3 06:22:16 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:22:16 +0800 Subject: Fwd: FC: Emergency Powers and National Emergencies Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203133147.0078ee7c@209.204.247.83> Declan points out some scary stuff here but no president (even Clinton) would be stupid enough to do something so outrageous. They would have to know that it would spark a long running a especially bloody revolution. Why risk it when they can just keep approaching totalitarianism incrementally with such activities as the FuckingDICks "Know Your Customer" activities. It's much quieter and infinitely less likely to result in a revolution. APF >> >>"The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the >>means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call >>reserve forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial >>law, seize and control all menas of transportation, regulate all private >>enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control >>the lives of all Americans... >> >>"Most [of these laws] remain a a potential source of virtually unlimited >>power for a President should he choose to activate them. It is possible >>that some future President could exercise this vast authority in an attempt >>to place the United States under authoritarian rule. >> >>"While the danger of a dictatorship arising through legal means may seem >>remote to us today, recent history records Hitler seizing control through >>the use of the emergency powers provisions contained in the laws of the >>Weimar Republic." >> >> --Joint Statement, Sens. Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles McMathias (R-MD) >> September 30, 1973 >> >> >>I came across this and the Senate special committee's 1973 report on >>Emergency Powers Statutes in Time Magazine's library. Powerful stuff. >> >>-Declan >> >> From apf2 at apf2.com Thu Dec 3 06:26:35 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:26:35 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203140629.0078b9c0@209.204.247.83> Now there's a really intelligent response to the MIB! I think Blanc would have done a better self-service to have responded that way. MAKE THEM GET A WARRANT! It's your ONLY legal defense against a fishing expedition! It's our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to require a warrant before letting them in! We are NOT criminals just because we do not allow the MIBs to make ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL searches of our properties! If they can't convince a judge AND obtain a specifically worded search warrant then they are obviously fishing! Tell to go find a real deep lake... I also give the writer an A+ for the Clintonian and Reagonesque touches! APF > >Hello, I'm Special Agent Murfrock of the IRS and this is Special >Agent Prenfrew. We'd like to speak with you about C. J. Parker, >maybe known to you as "Toto" or "TruthMonger..." > >Sorry, I don't recognize any of those. Isn't Toto the dog? > >The dog? > >Yes, Dorothy's dog in... (stops when he notices that the agents are >scribbling furiously in their notebooks) > >May we come in? > >No, I was just about to go to sleep. I'm not well. > >Sorry to hear that. We have an e-mail here that you sent to Toto, >and another he sent back to you... > >May I see those? (takes the printouts) > >Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. > >Well, if you look at those headers, the ones circled in red, you >will see that... > >You must be kidding! There are more people forging e-mail headers >than live in St. Louis! Everybody knows that. > >Would you mind if we just come in for a moment? > >Yes, I would. I told you, I am going to sleep. > >Would you mind if we look at your computer? > >Why would you want to do that? > >Well if you didn't send or receive these messages, you have >nothing to worry about. > >I don't see any reason to do that. > >We can get a warrant, very quickly, as a matter of fact. If you >cooperate, things will go better for you. > >I love to cooperate. I want to cooperate. I am cooperating to the >fullest extent I believe is required of me. Ask me something that >makes sense and I'll answer it. We have learned sooo much from our wonderful President Clinton, haven't we?! > >Have you ever heard of a group called the Cypherpunks? > >It rings a bell. > >Are you a member? > >No. > >How do you explain the fact that we found your e-mail address on >a Cypherpunks membership list in a computer we seized? > >I have no idea. I don't join organizations. > >Are you a member of the Majordomo organization? > >No. The only majordomo I've ever heard of is a mail list manager. > >Where have you seen this Majordomo? > >Oh, everywhere. I think it's worldwide in scope. > >(scribble scribble) > >It's some kind of utility program. Everybody uses it. > >(scribbling stops) >What can you tell us about it? > >Nothing, really. If you want to get on a mail list you send a >"subscribe" message to a majordomo. If you want to get off, I >think you send an "unscrive" message. > >Have you ever done that? > >Maybe. I don't recall. Anyone can submit your e-mail address >to lists, so you don't even have to subscribe to be on an >e-mail list. And there's so much spam these days that I don't >recognize half the stuff I get. > >Spam? (the agents look at each other) > >Junk e-mail. I delete most of my e-mail without even reading it. >Sometimes my email program crashes and it all gets deleted before >I can look at it. > >(scribble scribble) >How many lists have you joined? > >I don't remember. I never paid any attention to those things, >and since I banged my head three months ago, I haven't been >remembering a lot of things. > >(scribble scribble) >So, are you denying being a member of the Cypherpunks? > >I don't know what that means. > >Have you ever subscribed to the Cypherpunks e-mail list? > >I have no idea. > >You have no idea? You don't remember? > >I don't know what I've subscribed to, unsubscribed from, >what I get, don't get. E-mail is a complete mess and I >ignore most of it. I'm really not very good at those >things. > >May we look? > >No. > >Are you going to make us get a warrant? > >Get what you like. My disk crashed last week and I threw it away. >Lost everything. In fact I just formatted my new disk and the >only data on it is manuscripts for the columns I write. > >Columns? > >I write for a magazine and a couple of newspapers. > >(oh shit) >(scribble scribble) >Oh yeah? Which ones? > >I don't think that's appropriate. > >Well, we'll be back. Here's my card in case you think of anything >you'd like to tell us. > >Sure. > >One more thing. Have you ever been invited to join something >called The Circle of Eunuchs, e-u-n-u-c-h-s? > >I don't recall ever hearing of anything like that. > >Do you know who Tim May is? > >Nope. Sounds like a real common name, though. > >How about Blanc? > >Is that French? > >Never mind. Thanks. We'll be seeing you. > >(I don't _think_ so) > >----- > >AmnesiaMonger > From apf2 at apf2.com Thu Dec 3 06:46:35 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:46:35 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203141821.00721d7c@209.204.247.83> At 09:22 PM 12/2/98 -0800, you wrote: > From Greg Broiles: > >: Just as a reasonable person will likely listen cautiously to an accused >: person proclaiming their innocence, a reasonable person should also listen >: cautiously when the prosecution proclaims someone's guilt. >.......................................... > > >Thanks for the advice, it hadn't occurred to me they might be spoofing. > >(On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made >regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court >appearance), and asked that I also explain what I mean by "spoofing", as I had >thus described what Toto might have been up to with those incendiary messages.) > >To their credit, I will say that they only told me more about Toto's activities >during the course of our discussions regarding the point in time when someone is >likely to be arrested based on their public expressions. They related that >Toto had sent numerous threatening messages to the Mounties, and that although >he had alarming info out on his website that was not a problem; that they took >action only after he actually planted a bomb in one of their buildings. Then >when I asked them as to why he was being tried in this area, rather than Canada >or Texas or Arizona, they brought up that Toto had threatened the judge trying >Jim's case (and also his other email regarding Billg). > You speak as if these are facts. When was the trial? When was it proven that CJ=Toto (or at least a significant portion of Toto)? When was it proven that CJ or Toto planted a bomb or threatened a judge? When is something true just because some MIB says so?!?!? You have jumped to so many conclusions that I'm astonished that you didn't just jump in and offer to help string him up yourself! Maybe you did, deliberately or unintentionally. COPS LIE!!! FBI agents LIE!!! IRS agents LIE!!! That's why we have a justice system that was intended to make them PROVE what they say. >At least they were not offensive, but polite and pleasant, but it's true one >should keep one's mind on the facts - the pertinent facts, the pertinence *of* >the facts, and no other facts. I myself, of course, would never lie. Unless I >had to. : ) > "Here little girl, I have some candy for you..." But he was so NICE... >"Well, it depends on what your definition of 'is' is . . . " What a great >Leader, and a Lawyer, showing us how to deal with the Law. > Your BEST defense against them is always to make them demonstrate what they believe to be true. DON'T tell them anything. If what they say was really true (now this is important...) AND YOU are not a suspect then they don't need to talk to you, they already have proof. I'll put that another way... They talked to you because 1) they still don't have a case, and/or 2) YOU are a suspect! APF From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 3 06:54:54 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:54:54 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812031421.PAA00408@replay.com> Is anyone aware of any critical evaluations performed on the security of the Network Associates (a.k.a. McAfee) PGP for Personal Privacy? Traditionally, PGP source code has always been available for evaluation by the Net community, but this isn't the case with the newer commercial versions. Additionally, and this is a bit paranoid, but PGP in the past has come with digitally signed files to authenticate the integrity of the files. Once again, commercial versions offer no such guarantee that the software hasn't been tampered with between the factory and the store shelves. Comments? From info at chemweb.com Thu Dec 3 07:25:56 1998 From: info at chemweb.com (info at chemweb.com) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:25:56 +0800 Subject: Welcome to ChemWeb.com Message-ID: <199812031440.GAA07048@toad.com> Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks Congratulations. Your registration has been successful and you are now a member of ChemWeb.com, the World-Wide Club for the Chemical Community. Your free registration allows you access to all of the facilities at http://chemweb.com. You can now browse and search journals in the library, databases, the conference diary, the shopping mall, and the job exchange, as well as keeping up to date with the latest news from The Alchemist on-line magazine. If you ever forget your password or username, just send an e-mail to info at chemweb.com with your name/e-mail address, and we will help you find it, without you having to re-register. We are constantly improving the ChemWeb club site, and we welcome any suggestions you may have. I hope you find ChemWeb.com useful, and I look forward to seeing you there soon. Sincerely, Bill Town, Chief Operating Officer, ChemWeb, Inc. From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 07:57:44 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:57:44 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199812031421.PAA00408@replay.com> Message-ID: <19981203152033.A4180@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 03:21:32PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: > Is anyone aware of any critical evaluations > performed on the security of the Network Associates > (a.k.a. McAfee) PGP for Personal Privacy? Traditionally, > PGP source code has always been available for > evaluation by the Net community, but this isn't the > case with the newer commercial versions. are you sure? according to http://www.pgpi.com/ PGP 6.0.2i available soon The PGP 6.0.2 source code books have arrived in Europe, and work is going on to scan them in and create an international version: 6.0.2i. However, there are 25 volumes and over 12,000 pages, so it will probably take a while to finish. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ in the top 40, half the songs are secret messages to the teen world to drop out, turn on, and groove with the chemicals and light shows at discotheques. -- art linkletter From whgiii at openpgp.net Thu Dec 3 09:13:05 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:13:05 +0800 Subject: Welcome to ChemWeb.com In-Reply-To: <199812031440.GAA07048@toad.com> Message-ID: <199812031541.KAA021.77@whgiii> In <199812031440.GAA07048 at toad.com>, on 12/03/98 at 06:40 AM, info at chemweb.com said: >Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks >Congratulations. >Your registration has been successful and you are now a >member of ChemWeb.com, the World-Wide Club for the Chemical >Community. This should be fun! -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From info at chemweb.com Thu Dec 3 09:31:58 1998 From: info at chemweb.com (info at chemweb.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:31:58 +0800 Subject: ChemWeb password Message-ID: <199812031647.IAA10088@toad.com> Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks Someone has used our password utility located at http://chemweb.com/user_gateway/html/forgot_password.html to request that the password for your account be sent to this email address (the one that we have on file for your account). If it wasn't you, don't worry, because no one can ever get your password except you (we only mail it to the email address on file). Someone probably entered the wrong address by accident. If it was you, then here's the information that you've been waiting for. Your Member Name is: cypherpunks Your Current Password is: cpunks For additional help with technical problems, please see our online help guide at http://chemweb.com/help/html/index.html ChemWeb administration From 5dfs at mail.gnosis.it Fri Dec 4 02:06:24 1998 From: 5dfs at mail.gnosis.it (5dfs at mail.gnosis.it) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 02:06:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: ADV: We'll Pay You To Make Our Phone Ring Message-ID: <199812040937.KAA24534@mail.gnosis.it> Dear Business Friend, You are receiving this offer because we have corresponded in the past, or because you have been referred to me as someone interested in business opportunities. If this message has reached you in error, please accept my apologies. To remove your address from future mailings, please reply with "remove" in the subject heading. ******************************** ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE OUR 800 NUMBER - THAT'S ALL ! * You get $100 for EVERY SALE plus ENDLESS RESIDUALS! * Just MAKE OUR PHONE RING ! * Easiest, most profitable business around * You can earn thousands of $$ your very first month ! * No selling required - our expert sales team closes sales for you * We send out huge checks weekly * No meetings, phone calls, no hassles * Advertise any way you want - email, flyers, classifieds, postcards, etc. If you are an average person like myself who has always wanted to generate a large easy income from home, but you don't want the hassles of inventory, marketing plans, or direct selling, then THIS IS FOR YOU. All you do is advertise our 800 number and your ID number, and our trained staff do the rest for you. Don't just take my word for it - listen to some amazing testimonials from existing members: 1-888-446-6951 (He made $10,000 his first month) 1-888-446-6949 (He erased all his debt in one month) 1-888-715-0642 (She averages $1,000 every week) 1-888-703-5389 (He can't believe it's this easy) You also have the peace of mind of offering one of the best products available: a lifetime membership in a discount service providing guaranteed low prices on over 250,000 products and services. Hotel & Travel Services, Major Appliances, Dentists, Legal Services, 7.5 cents/minute long-distance, Groceries... YOU CAN START TODAY - CALL NOW: 1-800-811-2141 (ID # 66078) 8am - 10pm CST Mon-Sat ***************** P.S. I am really excited about this and YOU souuld be too. I called and checekd this out it in not a two or 3 tier pusiness oppertuniety it is one level ONLY..you get payd for the people you bring in and have to do nothing else. The savings in they buying end of it is really great too from there catalog of 250,000 items is absolutely great also so I joined and hope you do to if not for the business end but for what you going to save buying alone it is worth it... THANKS FOR YOU TIME Michael T. Kacer reply to me with your # & e-mail and i will help u if i can From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Dec 3 10:56:01 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 02:56:01 +0800 Subject: "Export" controls Message-ID: <3666D33A.596E@lsil.com> > Their architecture has real $$ value because it cracks 99% of > "encrypted" traffic. > What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it? > Offering the real stuff for sale in US requires some investment. > Really? > We are not talking here about free stuff. We are talking about > products that can be deployed by non-programmers, businesses etc., > that will be supported professionally > Every product I ever worked on started off as a big ugly prototype sprawled across a table top hooked to all sorts of life support systems. And not all products are taken to market by those who did the initial design work. License. For something like we're discussing here I think the *big* cash outlay comes post-prototype with mask, fab, plastics, production lines and marketing. Upfront it's mostly neurons. I expect it would be easier to convince a manufacturer to participate with a working prototype than it would with only an idea. > Hardware is overkill for the single voice line. PGPfone works fine > there. ^^^^^^^^ > No it is not. 500k gates may be too much but I maintain that you simply cannot trust the Wintel HW, Windows or anything you cannot analyze in detail and freeze. Besides, people like little palm-sized gadgets. > How much would you pay for transparent hardware/software solution that > encrypts all traffic between peer users > We all know the magic price points. But is that particular product all that interesting? Even if peer traffic is encrypted the system can be infected and can transmit anything ( disk, RAM eg ) to other adresses. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the networking stuff to feel that a system can be secured while it is on-line. Now an embedded system for secure e-mail that used a PC as a gateway might be kind of cool. You drop encrypted attachments onto a driver that sends them to the unit where you read them. Anything you enter and encrypt at the unit is presented as a file at the host to be attached and sent. USB would be plenty quick for that sort of stuff. You might say that it should be done on the host as SW or on another PC but we're back to the Wintel HW again. No thanks. I wonder what could be done with a palm pilot. Are full schematics and BIOS and driver code available? You *might* throw out everything but and build it there. You'd want to do some EMI testing. I still like my SCSI/IDE gizmo for off-line PC's. > The main problem with hard crypto is that it is so equalizing. Any > pauper can cheaply encrypt and make it hard for any government to > break. > Yes, and it needs to be priced accordingly. Although corporations do tend to spend nicely at times. The key, as with any business, identify your customers and make a product for them. Not easy, I admit. > This is not the case with guns, where more resources almost linearly > buy more power. > Gun talk is amusing. I agree that what is going on with gun law is disturbing but as far as disagreement with the Reptilians is concerned power is political. As soon as it becomes violent you've lost. Except in the event of a full-blown revolution. Then we all lose. > On the wild side, suppose that all crypto restrictions are terminated. > Some would say that now "they" can break all available stuff. In any > case the value of crypto products in the eyes of buyers would fall. If > it is legal it is no good. Most of the research would lose the best > people. > Don't you think that this sort of a poker bluff would be a little too much even for the boldest thinkers in gov't? The stuff they fear most would be commoditized and I think, in spite of your point, far more of it would exist than does now. Marketeers would reduce it to bullet items on packages but many engineers would deliver reasonable products within the cost constraints. > Cypherpunks would cease to exist. > Is that why CP exist? Because cryptography has some legal gray areas? I don't think so. Enough This is a painfully slow conversation. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 3 12:11:08 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:11:08 +0800 Subject: Suggested Reading Message-ID: <199812031951.NAA21273@einstein.ssz.com> Declarations of Independance: Cross-examining American ideology Howard Zinn ISBN 0-06-092108-0 $14.00 US ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From xena at best.com Thu Dec 3 13:15:10 1998 From: xena at best.com (Xena - Warrior Princess) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:15:10 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812032032.MAA10218@shell16.ba.best.com> U.S. claims success in curbing encryption trade WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Clinton administration officials Thursday said they had persuaded other leading countries to impose strict new export controls on computer data-scrambling products under the guise of arms control. At a meeting Thursday in Vienna, the 33 nations that have signed the Wassenaar Arrangement limiting arms exports -- including Japan, Germany and Britain -- agreed to impose controls on the most powerful data-scrambling technologies, including for the first time mass-market software, U.S. special envoy for cryptography David Aaron told Reuters. The United States, which restricts exports of a wide range of data-scrambling products and software -- also known as encryption -- has long sought without success to persuade other countries to impose similar restrictions. ``We think this is very important in terms of bringing a level playing field for our exporters,'' Aaron said. Leading U.S. high-technology companies, including Microsoft Corp. and Intel Corp., have complained that the lack of restrictions in other countries hampered their ability to compete abroad. The industry has sought to have U.S. restrictions relaxed or repealed, but has not asked for tighter controls in other countries. Privacy advocates have also staunchly opposed U.S. export controls on encryption, arguing that data-scrambling technologies provided a crucial means of protecting privacy in the digital age. ``It's ironic, but the U.S. government is leading the charge internationally to restrict personal privacy and individual liberty around the world,'' said Alan Davidson, staff counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a Washington-based advocacy group. Special envoy Aaron said the Wassenaar countries agreed to continue export controls on powerful encryption products in general but decided to end an exemption for widely available software containing such capabilities. ``They plugged a loophole,'' Aaron said. The new policy also reduced reporting and paperwork requirements and specifically excluded from export controls products that used encryption to protect intellectual property -- such as movies or recordings sent over the Internet -- from illegal copying, Aaron said. Encryption uses mathematical formulas to scramble information and render it unreadable without a password or software ``key.'' One important measure of the strength of the encryption is the length of the software key, measured in bits, the ones and zeros that make up the smallest unit of computer data. With the increasing speed and falling prices of computers, data encrypted with a key 40 bits long that was considered highly secure several years ago can now be cracked in a few hours. Cutting-edge electronic commerce and communications programs typically use 128-bit or longer keys. Under Thursday's agreement, Wassenaar countries would restrict exports of general encryption products using more than 56-bit keys and mass-market products with keys more than 64 bits long, Aaron said. Each country must now draft its own rules to implement the agreement. From schneier at counterpane.com Thu Dec 3 14:18:41 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:18:41 +0800 Subject: Twofish/AES News Message-ID: <199812032135.PAA14339@baal.visi.com> There are some new papers on the Twofish webpage. We have improved our performance numbers. On Pentium-class machines, key setup is faster. We also have large-RAM implementations, that speed key setup at the expense of 256K of RAM. We aso have a variety of performance options on smart cards, trading RAM off for speed. And finally, we have a new hardware implementation that reduces the total gate count. Details are in Twofish Technical Report #3: http://www.counterpane.com/twofish-speed.html Dave Barton has implemented Twofish in Delphi: http://www.hertreg.ac.uk/ss/d_crypto.html And finally, we have compared the performance of all AES submissions on 32-bit processors, smart cards, and hardware. Our results are in. http://www.counterpane.com/AES-performance.html As always, thanks for your support. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com From tcmay at got.net Thu Dec 3 15:15:31 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:15:31 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:22 PM -0800 12/2/98, Blanc wrote: >(On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made >regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court >appearance), and asked that I also explain what I mean by "spoofing", as I had >thus described what Toto might have been up to with those incendiary >messages.) .... >At least they were not offensive, but polite and pleasant, but it's true one Think "Good cop, bad cop." It seems to me that when you invite them in for cookies and tea and have a "pleasant" conversation with them, you are only helping to put away Toto. Whatever you tell them, they will almost certainly only use the negative things you tell them. Or the general knowledge you give them, or contact lists, etc. I have not been contacted by either American or Canadian cops with regard to either Jim Bell or Toto. I _hope_ I will have the presence of mind to tell them to leave. I certainly cannot foresee letting them inside my home, if only because I expect they would get nervous about the Winchester Defender 12-gauge sometimes left leaning against a wall, and the various assault rifles left at the read in case a narc needs to be dispatched. Also, my time is not free. If they want my expertise on some matter, let them pay my consulting rate. As this is unlikely to happen, I would simply (I hope) tell them to leave my property immediately. (My planned answer, rehearsed in my mind over the several "scares" seen in recent years, is to say something along the lines of: "Am I under arrest? If so, I wish to speak to a lawyer. If not, please leave.") If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops? Blanc, I'm afraid that in your desire to be "helpful," you have only worsened the situation for Toto. Believe me, they are not interested in exculpatory evidence...whatever that might be in this context. They are more likely interested in contact lists, in educating themselves to make themselves more convincing witnesses, etc. Expect to see any knowledge you conveighed to them coming back in Toto's trial from the mouths of prosecution witnesses. --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From petro at playboy.com Thu Dec 3 16:47:56 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:47:56 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: At 5:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote: > >If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing >millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for >smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops? I think millions is overstating things just a little bit, unless you mean world wide. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From phormiga at bigfoot.com Thu Dec 3 17:05:18 1998 From: phormiga at bigfoot.com (phormiga at bigfoot.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:05:18 +0800 Subject: Make your own IQ test online!!! (Free+FUN) Message-ID: <747adv$rk6$449@talia.mad.ibernet.es> you can do it now! You�ll know your IQ in a few minutes Go to http.//www.hormiga.org/iqt.htm FREE AND FUN You�ll know your Intelligence Coeficent Spanish version http://www.hormiga.org/iq.htm From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 3 17:05:58 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:05:58 +0800 Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? Message-ID: <199812040042.BAA01772@replay.com> I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client was being ported to the Mac. Does anyone know the status of this project? From info at chemweb.com Thu Dec 3 18:10:23 1998 From: info at chemweb.com (info at chemweb.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:10:23 +0800 Subject: ChemWeb password Message-ID: <199812040123.RAA12872@toad.com> Your request for a ChemWeb password has been received. We will try to help you out as soon as possible. For additional help with technical problems, please see our online help guide at http://chemweb.com/help/html/index.html Thank you ChemWeb administration From hukkte at datafellows.com Fri Dec 4 11:05:13 1998 From: hukkte at datafellows.com (Teemu Hukkanen) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:05:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Apology for mixup in press release mailing list Message-ID: <19981204210202.A1828@datafellows.com> Due to an unsuspected flaw, our mailing lists were slightly misconfigured which allowed replies to the original press release email to be forwarded to all recipients in the list. -- postmaster at datafellows.com From tcmay at got.net Thu Dec 3 19:18:32 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:18:32 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:13 PM -0800 12/3/98, Petro wrote: >At 5:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote: >> >>If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing >>millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for >>smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops? > > I think millions is overstating things just a little bit, unless >you mean world wide. Those of who have voted to take away guns, those who have actually done the taking away, those who have sent in JBTs to break into homes, those who have .... It adds up fast. Whatever the precise total is, removing them is what crypto anarchy and untraceable transactions make possible. Read about this is my Cyphernomicon, released long before Jim Bell had his "wonderful idea." --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From frissell at panix.com Thu Dec 3 19:18:43 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:18:43 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <199812040239.VAA12949@mail1.panix.com> At 02:42 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >It seems to me that when you invite them in for cookies and tea and have a >"pleasant" conversation with them, you are only helping to put away Toto. >Whatever you tell them, they will almost certainly only use the negative >things you tell them. Or the general knowledge you give them, or contact >lists, etc. > >I have not been contacted by either American or Canadian cops with regard >to either Jim Bell or Toto. I _hope_ I will have the presence of mind to >tell them to leave. The opening of "HOW TO BREAK THE LAW" By Duncan Frissell For a fair number of readers, the day may come when the men in the funny suits walk up to you, ask if you are you, and then exercise their power of arrest. For those without much experience in getting arrested, let me tell you what in general it will be like (details may vary). But first let's review arrest etiquette. Arrest etiquette can be complicated for the arresting officers but it is easy for the arrestee. There are only two rules: 1) Keep your mouth shut and 2) Cooperate physically with the arrest. Following rule two will help preserve your kidneys, limbs, and skull but following rule one is the most important. During the first two years after your arrest, there are only four words that you should speak to minions of the State in an official capacity: "I want a lawyer" Say nothing else. You gain NO benefits by saying things to the cops and the prosecutors for free. If your lawyer cuts a deal for you, you can talk in exchange for something but once you speak you can't take the words back. Lawyers are constantly amazed and entertained by the things their clients tell the cops. Don't say anything. It's stupid. DCF From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Thu Dec 3 21:01:40 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:01:40 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: >Now there's a really intelligent response to the MIB! I think Blanc would >have done a better self-service to have responded that way. > >MAKE THEM GET A WARRANT! It's your ONLY legal defense against a fishing >expedition! It's our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to require a warrant before >letting them in! We are NOT criminals just because we do not allow the MIBs >to make ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL searches of our properties! > >If they can't convince a judge AND obtain a specifically worded search >warrant then they are obviously fishing! Tell to go find a real deep lake... > >I also give the writer an A+ for the Clintonian and Reagonesque touches! > >APF The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily, they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn. They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring, torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call home. Heil Klintonkov! Heil Reno! Heil Freeh! StatistMonger From blancw at cnw.com Thu Dec 3 21:07:47 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:47 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01be1f40$5606b240$2f8195cf@blanc> Well, I'm glad my post has stirred up everyone into providing examples of proper cpunk behavior/responses when confronted with a visit from the Friendly Neighborhood Investigation Corp. It's great you're sharing your ideas on recalcitrance and resistance, it's more useful than all the jibberjabber about how much you hate the govmt. (Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), to a real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip ("asked"?) at the airport?) Ya'll should have done this earlier, when the news of Toto first came out. And think about it now, because if any mail from you was on his computer, you're likely to be next. But relax! - I said nothing which is not public knowledge, which is not already evident from the list archives. As far as I'm concerned, it was true but essentially useless. I confirmed things which they already knew or would already know from the postings to the list - they mentioned Tim's attitude, for instance, and Declan's stories on Toto, and the info on John Young's website, and Toto's website, and asked me if I knew of Adam Back (who?). Furthermore, just because I am nice and mannerly doesn't mean I couldn't as well be a hypocrite. James Bond is also a complete gentleman. Depending on the circumstance. (Q: so, are you a hacker? A: no. I don't know Unix) Tim said: : Blanc, I'm afraid that in your desire to be "helpful," you have only : worsened the situation for Toto. Believe me, they are not interested in : exculpatory evidence...whatever that might be in this : context. They are more likely interested in contact lists, in educating : themselves to make themselves more convincing witnesses, etc. Expect to see any : knowledge you conveighed to them coming back in Toto's trial from the mouths of : prosecution witnesses. I was not being "helpful". I relied to their inquiries; I didn't offer information. I made my own inquiries to them, as I already said, about the dividing line between free speech and when they will go seeking to arrest a person. In terms of educating them, I don't have any objections to probing their mind to see what/how they think about things which we have discussed at length on the list. I also don't have any objections in referring them to read further: I told them that the cpunks often have deep discussions on this and other such subjects, where we pursue an understanding of controversial issues like free speech and privacy. I told them that there were many very smart people on the list, especially back in the earlier years, although some of these had left to pursue their other interests. I told them it is an open forum where people come and go - they stay awhile, sign off, return, there are kooks who show up and get people riled up, there are those who bring up contradictions and get jumped on for their philosophical errors. I said that the spectrum of philosophies regarding governments go from the extreme anarchists who want to be completely self-governing, to those on the opposite end who would like to have a camera in every room of their house watching them in case anything went wrong. I said that most people are in the middle, not wanting too much governance but not totally against it. I said that when the opposite groups clash, there is a lot of heat and sometimes light. (they didn't ask, and I didn't tell them, which side of the spectrum I'm on) If one of the investigators says he is interested in the concepts of which we discuss, I am glad to bring up any points I can make for the side of self-government, individuality, privacy, etc. (not that I would have a prolonged argument, but only that I would inquire as to why they are so far out of touch). If they have any intelligence at all, they will learn something; if not, well, let's compare that to the time wasted trying to enlighten one of our current prolific posters, whose name I shall not mention because I'm sympathetic to his condition, or all the time which has been spent going over the same arguments with those who never got any benefit from it anyway. If there's anyone I would be glad to aim flashes of brilliant arguments toward, it would be an IRS agent. At least they would know definitely, without my having to flash my gun or pour chemicals on their office rug, where I would stand in a case of "emergency". I am not afraid of making my stand this way, to their face. If it is anyone who could use some perspective on the controversies over government and privacy, it would be them. And above all else, beyond being symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real. It can be the hardest thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real. .. Blanc Think Thong From blancw at cnw.com Thu Dec 3 21:20:36 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:20:36 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812040239.VAA12949@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <000c01be1f42$e07f6320$2f8195cf@blanc> >From Duncan Frissell: : The opening of "HOW TO BREAK THE LAW" : : By Duncan Frissell : : For a fair number of readers, the day may come when the men : in the funny suits walk up to you, ask if you are you, and then exercise : their power of arrest. For those without much experience in getting : arrested, let me tell you what in general it will be like (details may vary). ............................................. Been waiting for that book, Duncan. Need any help? : ) .. Blanc From tcmay at got.net Thu Dec 3 22:21:05 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:21:05 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 8:39 PM -0800 12/3/98, Blanc wrote: >Well, I'm glad my post has stirred up everyone into providing examples of >proper >cpunk behavior/responses when confronted with a visit from the Friendly >Neighborhood Investigation Corp. It's great you're sharing your ideas on >recalcitrance and resistance, it's more useful than all the jibberjabber about >how much you hate the govmt. (Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real >live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), to a >real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip >("asked"?) at the airport?) Ya'll should have done this earlier, when >the news >of Toto first came out. And think about it now, because if any mail from you >was on his computer, you're likely to be next. I was very careful to phrase my points in terms of how I _hope_ to respond in a certain way, not claiming I have in the past or know I will in the future. Maybe I'll wimp out, maybe I'll offer to tell them everything I know about the Politician Removal Lottery, maybe I'll open up on them with my shotgun. Who knows? My point, parallel to Duncan's, is that talking to narcs and cops almost always never helps the accused. If one's goal is to help the prosecution, then by all means talk to the prosecution's investigators. As for the general points, Duncan and several others have made these kinds of common sense points in the past...even when you were subscribed to the list. For example, some folks even carry a "What to do if questioned by the police" card in their wallet, to either read from--assuming this is allowed--or to reread occasionally as a reminder. You, apparently having had personal contact with either one or both of the parties, and living in the state where both cases are centered, might have anticipated questioning by the cops. > >But relax! - I said nothing which is not public knowledge, which is not >already evident from the list archives. Don't understimate the help that a helpful person provides. --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From blancw at cnw.com Thu Dec 3 23:40:47 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:40:47 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01be1f56$548fa0a0$2f8195cf@blanc> >From Tim May: : I was very careful to phrase my points in terms of how I : _hope_ to respond in a certain way, not claiming I have in the past or know I : will in the future. Maybe I'll wimp out, maybe I'll offer to tell them : everything I know about the Politician Removal Lottery, maybe I'll open up : on them with my shotgun. Who knows? ............................................. I expect how one responds will in part depend on how rational you think "they" are, or suppose them to be. I know that if I had been just subpoenaed with a piece of paper I would have said 'no' or just not shown up, in spite of the trouble that might get me into. But I generally wouldn't prevent from talking to Authorized Government Officials, although only a very little. I think it's best to try to understand the situation first, and see what the deal is, before jumping to conclusions and alarming them into attack mode, like Hyper-Anon mentioned (I hadn't envisioned such a scenario, thanks for the notice (how do you know about this, or are you just imagining that that's what will happen?) ). I did say that everyone should think about their own responses to trying situations, because it is a valuable mental exercise. Some people's bark *is* louder than their bite, after all, and they do bark pretty loudly in email, especially anonymously. .. Blanc, who will no longer talk to strangers in the hall without first conferring with Duncan McCloud of the Clan of Immortals From ian at deepwell.com Fri Dec 4 01:07:49 1998 From: ian at deepwell.com (Ian Briggs) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:07:49 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19981204004646.00c20670@deepwell.com> >The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily, >they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn. >They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some >of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a >cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring, >torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call >home. Yeah and active evil is better than passive good. We should submit ourselves to what is Not the law because we fear what is the law? Thats a great world, where do I sign up? -Ian Welcome to 1984 as with all goverment projects, its a bit late and slightly overbudget -Ian Briggs. From apf2 at apf2.com Fri Dec 4 03:20:55 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:20:55 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981204095905.00693d50@209.204.247.83> >The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily, >they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn. >They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some >of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a >cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring, >torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call >home. > >Heil Klintonkov! Heil Reno! Heil Freeh! > >StatistMonger > Unfortunately, this is true. That's why I loved the response given by Anon! It accomplished all the right things without giving them cause for coming back!! VERY, VERY GOOD! APF From apf2 at apf2.com Fri Dec 4 03:23:12 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:23:12 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981204110934.033b17a8@209.204.247.83> At 08:39 PM 12/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >Well, I'm glad my post has stirred up everyone into providing examples of proper >cpunk behavior/responses when confronted with a visit from the Friendly >Neighborhood Investigation Corp. It's great you're sharing your ideas on >recalcitrance and resistance, it's more useful than all the jibberjabber about >how much you hate the govmt. (Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real >live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), to a >real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip >("asked"?) at the airport?) Ya'll should have done this earlier, when the news >of Toto first came out. And think about it now, because if any mail from you >was on his computer, you're likely to be next. I specifically remember a number of clueful letters on the topic which hit this list as the whole CJ issue came up. As I recall, there were plenty of warnings that cpunks could expect visits. In fact, you're "I got mine" subject line seems to indicate that you were aware of this concept. Secondly, since e/mail is a digital phenomenon, it can not be physically attached to a source. Since perfect copies of it can be freely made any computer can be made to appear as the originating computer. It is the very easiest type of "evididence" to plant. Imagine a virus or Trojan horse that put incriminating stuff on a computer w/o the owner knowing about it. The technology is readily available and no doubt in use. You think that a cop who would use a "throw down" gun or plant physical evidence wouldn't also be capable of planting digital evidence. I think it will be very interesting once the true nature of computer contents are litigated in terms of its non-physical nature. Without a digital signature that cannot be forged any file on any computer is really just digital nothingness that could have been placed there by anyone. There is absolutely no way to prove anybody wrote anything unless you have a number of reliable eyewitnesses physically present at the event. COPS LIE!! FEDS LIE!! Those alleged threats by Toto may (probably) actually be the result of some MIB that couldn't get anything else on him. So he invented the letters and later planted them on CJs computer during the undoubtedly unsupervised session in which they supposedly read these things off his computer. I personally have been roughed up (no bruises, unfortunately) by cops when I refused to allow them to search my car. Fortunately all the uproar gather such a crowd that they were unable to plant any false evidence and since there was nothing there in the first place they had nothing to hold me on. I wish they had bruised me, it would have made settlement talks faster and more productive ;) When asked at the Dusseldorf airport to turn-on my computer, I did ask why. When told that they wanted to make sure it was real. I clicked it on, let whir around for a couple of seconds and turned it off. No problem. Had they asked to see they contents I would have refused. That would be like letting them read my personal papers, which they have no right to do. If arrested I will fight it. But I'm a real hard-head. That's why I left the US. Got tired of always being hassled. However, hard-headed I am, I do admire the wonderful suggestions (a la Clinton) by anon! > >But relax! - I said nothing which is not public knowledge, which is not >already evident from the list archives. As far as I'm concerned, it was true >but essentially useless. I confirmed things which they already knew or would >already know from the postings to the list - they mentioned Tim's attitude, for >instance, and Declan's stories on Toto, and the info on John Young's website, >and Toto's website, and asked me if I knew of Adam Back (who?). The stuff on this list is only public knowledge from a legal stand point. It is often technologically or ideologically so far over most peoples heads (especially MIBs and AOLes) that it is unfair to characterize it that way. Besides, the real point isn't that they know anything, it's that they have either identified you as a possible stooge or a suspect. You helpfulness is probably going to cost someone (maybe yourself) very dearly. Innocent people get fried all the time because of bad IDs. "Well, I thought it was him...It LOOKED like him..." If you aren't sure--keep it to yourself. And if you weren't then when CJ allegedly wrote and sent those letters then it is impossible for you to be sure. So, PLEASE do everyone a favor and stop "helping". >Furthermore, >just because I am nice and mannerly doesn't mean I couldn't as well be a >hypocrite. James Bond is also a complete gentleman. Depending on the >circumstance. >(Q: so, are you a hacker? A: no. I don't know Unix) I have considered the possibility that you are in fact some sort of government "agent" and your mission is to draw out similar (unfounded) convictions of CJ from others on the list. If that is your purpose, may you burn in Hell. The bottom line is if you are not working to help build the governments case, then on your next visit with them please try a little honest doubt and forgetfulness. > > >Tim said: > >: Blanc, I'm afraid that in your desire to be "helpful," you have only >: worsened the situation for Toto. Believe me, they are not interested in >: exculpatory evidence...whatever that might be in this >: context. They are more likely interested in contact lists, in educating >: themselves to make themselves more convincing witnesses, etc. Expect to see >any >: knowledge you conveighed to them coming back in Toto's trial from the mouths >of >: prosecution witnesses. A Note to Tim, I don't think you are as sure of Toto's identity as you sound. I'm not even sure you mean to sound as if you are sure of his identity. It may just be from the urge to type less keystrokes. Whatever the case, if your not sure CJ is the one and only Toto then please refer to Toto for Toto stuff and CJ for the guy in Jail. It's more clear and since CJ is innocent until proven guilty, we should give him the benefit of the doubt. > >I was not being "helpful". I relied to their inquiries; I didn't offer >information. I made my own inquiries to them, as I already said, about the >dividing line between free speech and when they will go seeking to arrest a >person. > >In terms of educating them, I don't have any objections to probing their mind to >see what/how they think about things which we have discussed at length on the >list. I also don't have any objections in referring them to read further: I >told them that the cpunks often have deep discussions on this and other such >subjects, where we pursue an understanding of controversial issues like free >speech and privacy. I told them that there were many very smart people on the >list, especially back in the earlier years, although some of these had left to >pursue their other interests. And there were a lot of smart people on McCarthy's list... All turned in by people who couldn't possibly know the truth about the person they accused. Or perhaps did it save their own butt. Hell, maybe this will the McCarthy case of the new century... It should take about two years to blow up into a full on witch hunt and blacklisting of cpunks and other "anti-social" types. With the Y2K problem sure to be pissing lots of people off, the public will certainly be willing to support ridding society of all those computer geeks that have caused all this trouble... >of heat and sometimes light. (they didn't ask, and I didn't tell them, which >side of the spectrum I'm on) It doesn't matter. Their job is NOT to find the truth. Their job is to build cases. These are not equivalent endeavors. Far too many times they are not even compatible endeavors. > I am not afraid of making my stand this way, to their face. Fine, but until they arrest you stay out of it. Use YOUR trial as your soapbox and not CJs. > >If it is anyone who could use some perspective on the controversies over >government and privacy, it would be them. And above all else, beyond being >symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real. It can be the hardest >thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real. Then please, get real and get honest, stop talking about things you THINK are true. Those are opinions NOT facts, and should not be confused. Put those fuzzy warm feelings away and face the fact that these guys are not your girl friends chatting and discussing things that tick them off. These guys are out to build a case against someone so that they can destroy his life. HE IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. He has a right to a FAIR trial. PLEASE, let's wait for the trial before convicting him!!! APF From davinah at chemweb.com Fri Dec 4 05:02:52 1998 From: davinah at chemweb.com (Davina Heaven) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:02:52 +0800 Subject: ChemWeb.com Message-ID: Dear Dr Cypherpunks Thank you for your message to ChemWeb.com. Please enter your Member Name (user name) and Password exactly as shown below (please note that our system is case sensitive and will not tolerate spaces): Member Name: cypherpunks Password: crossfire If you have any further queries or comments, please do not hesitate to contact me again. Yours sincerely, Davina Heaven Customer Services ChemWeb Inc. 50 New Bond Street London W1Y 6HA Tel: +44 (0)171 499 4748 Fax: +44 (0)171 499 4102 http://ChemWeb.com World Wide Club for the Chemical Community > -----Original Message----- > From: cypherpunks at toad.com [SMTP:cypherpunks at toad.com] > Sent: None > To: info at chemweb.com > Subject: ChemWeb password > > Request for password: > > Full name: cypherpunks cypherpunks > Current e-mail: cypherpunks at toad.com > Other e-mails: > Member name: cypherpunks > Comment: From info at chemweb.com Fri Dec 4 05:16:09 1998 From: info at chemweb.com (info at chemweb.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:16:09 +0800 Subject: ChemWeb password Message-ID: <199812041248.EAA17113@toad.com> Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks Someone has used our password utility located at http://chemweb.com/user_gateway/html/forgot_password.html to request that the password for your account be sent to this email address (the one that we have on file for your account). If it wasn't you, don't worry, because no one can ever get your password except you (we only mail it to the email address on file). Someone probably entered the wrong address by accident. If it was you, then here's the information that you've been waiting for. Your Member Name is: cypherpunks Your Current Password is: crossfire For additional help with technical problems, please see our online help guide at http://chemweb.com/help/html/index.html ChemWeb administration From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 4 07:18:18 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:18:18 +0800 Subject: The Beeb speaks like a cypherpunk once removed... Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- There's some discussion on the BBC about that Chinese businessman who's now in the klink for "conspiring against the state using the internet" :-). The Beeb has an internet correspondent, and he's, right now, talking about strong crypto, anonymous remailers, and quoting Gilmore's censorship is damage line. All without using the words "strong cryptography", or "anonymous remailers", or "John Gilmore". :-). He was talking about how the Chinese website was hacked within hours and painted over with pro democracy stuff and links to Amnesty International, among other things. All of this was in a favorable, horse is out of the barn, this is good for freedom, light. Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNmfw9cUCGwxmWcHhAQEDEwf9H9xqZ2LU935VawA9ZwpzFPF2CKrl1xam jzGJX2uTOhiYGtkQhZ2hFY7/ISoNGXvinwHACycXVi5AdxR6//2tzr1szjk4bgB5 NvKW+1gJJWP5bD0Kz3JwYui3t2fAetjSg94HCxcWbSQM4NJVP6IBXyg48ZtGmkVE UqvhwYc41NHVDgZt/ist5EQEAWcWh3/qApEbeS8xG7SP4FZeCeogCidVmQuMWC1u sAQbrd5fdFdTcUs0feuk9zBpEklTe3AljfnDbfSEUpyok29L+9R3cqAyh/5GM0yd 3uVQTmqOSMLK0o+L9tuejgkaTGnI7Co2NXaYbh/jPKGzm/OAYr7/fQ== =FU5E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jya at pipeline.com Fri Dec 4 07:26:03 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:26:03 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Statement Message-ID: <199812041448.JAA23610@camel8.mindspring.com> The Secretariat of The Wassenaar Arrangement has issued brief public docs on the recent meeting: http://jya.com/wa-state98.htm Only one brief mention of encryption: "8. The WA agreed control list amendments to take into account recent technological developments. The amendments to the lists included elimination of coverage of commonly available civil telecommunications equipment as well as the modernisation of encryption controls to keep pace with developing technology and electronic commerce, while also being mindful of security interests. Participating States also discussed the potential need for the WA and national export control authorities to respond quickly and effectively to the emergence of new technologies." Which appears to confirm that each state will implement and announce its encryption policy as it sees fit. The US has jumped to proclaim to its constituencies that it has won. Though it's the secret agreements that remain to be publicized. Note the gaps in the public docs and dissimulative assurances. We also offer a recent related message from Denmark on its fluid crypto policy: http://jya.com/dk-crypto98.htm From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 07:28:03 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:28:03 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981204004646.00c20670@deepwell.com> Message-ID: <199812041501.JAA09183@manifold.algebra.com> > >The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily, > >they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn. > >They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some > >of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a > >cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring, > >torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call > >home. I actually seriously doubt this. I think that they actually respect people who do not suck up to them, and know the laws. They are people and, if they have a choice, would rather harass someone who puts up with it, than someone who can get them some serious trouble. - Igor. From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Fri Dec 4 08:28:04 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:28:04 +0800 Subject: TESTING... Seems like I don't get all my mail... Message-ID: <366803E8.DB80621B@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> TEST TEST TEST TEST JDO From announce at dmail1.real-net.net Fri Dec 4 08:35:11 1998 From: announce at dmail1.real-net.net (RealNetworks News) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:35:11 +0800 Subject: Surf the Web 20-Times Faster Message-ID: <199812041601.IAA30445@fmailb1.real-net.net> Dear RealPlayer User, Want to speed up your Internet connection without purchasing a new modem? Tired of long-download times and network problems? For a limited time, RealNetworks invites you to download PeakJet 2000-which can speed your web surfing up to 20-times faster-for only $14.95! 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To download now, visit: => http://www.realstore.com/specials/twosurfing.html Thank you for continuing to use RealNetworks products. Maria Cantwell Senior Vice President RealNetworks, Inc. Seattle, WA USA ---------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL Participation in RealNetworks product updates and special offers is voluntary. During the installation of the RealPlayer software you indicated a preference to receive these e-mails. For information about unsubscribing from future announcements, do not respond to this email, instead visit: http://www.real.com/mailinglist/ From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 08:39:11 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:39:11 +0800 Subject: joy of export, h/ware Message-ID: <199812041610.RAA19470@replay.com> At 10:06 AM 12/3/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: >> Their architecture has real $$ value because it cracks 99% of >> "encrypted" traffic. >> >What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It >gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it? Not really. >> Offering the real stuff for sale in US requires some investment. >> >Really? Interesting question. Open a delaware corporation and sell munition-quality gate arrays in the back pages of Popular Electronics or EE Times... keep us posted... >I expect it would be easier to convince a manufacturer to participate >with a working prototype than it would with only an idea. Duh :-) >> Hardware is overkill for the single voice line. PGPfone works fine >> there. ^^^^^^^^ >> >No it is not. 500k gates may be too much but I maintain that you simply >cannot trust the Wintel HW, Windows or anything you cannot analyze in >detail and freeze. Besides, people like little palm-sized gadgets. * 10,000 gates cost less than a paper clip. 500K is high for a block cipher. * If we don't find something to do with them, at the rate we're producing them, the earth will be covered with silicon and its compounds soon. :-) * Its not like we'd ever put floating point routines, or blitting routines, out of business by integrating those functions in Si, is it? Naah, we'd never accelerate encryption with hardware, the CPU is bored and has nothing better to do, and its soooo expensive to print chips.. (That being said, I'll point out to myself how many asics have been replaced by dsps...but not without some inefficiency) * PGPfone on a very fast cpu plus fast link is still less pleasant than a noisy cordless (no pun intended). * We'd never take encryption hardware through the same path as modems, would we? First used between companies, then used for remote access, eventually you can't buy a bloody machine without one. Getting cheaper, faster, closer to the motherboard, taken for granted by applications. Ever seen a 300 baud, 40 lb modem, cost probably $3000 in 1970 dollars? The final level of deployment is when garage-door-openers, car remotes, and childrens' toys (e.g., radio controlled cars) use encryption chips... or chips with encryption, anyway. >Now an embedded system for secure e-mail that used a PC as a gateway >might be kind of cool. You drop encrypted attachments onto a driver that >sends them to the unit where you read them. Anything you enter and >encrypt at the unit is presented as a file at the host to be attached >and sent. USB would be plenty quick for that sort of stuff. Yes, the PC can be used as an untrusted router if the encryption is done outside it. The outside encrypting unit should also perform NAT, otherwise the PC (doing the tunnelling) can broadcast traffic ('trap and trace' in the pots world) info. The lower power used in PDAs really helps keep the boys in the White Van Across the Street busy. Email is so low-bandwidth that software suffices. Secure video conferencing on your Dick Tracy (tm) telewatch needs h/w support. --- Is 5% of YOUR communications encrypted or anonymous in '98 ?? --- From petro at playboy.com Fri Dec 4 08:48:16 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:48:16 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote: >At 3:13 PM -0800 12/3/98, Petro wrote: >>At 5:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote: >>> >>>If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing >>>millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for >>>smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops? >> >> I think millions is overstating things just a little bit, unless >>you mean world wide. > >Those of who have voted to take away guns, those who have actually done the >taking away, those who have sent in JBTs to break into homes, those who >have .... > >It adds up fast. Whatever the precise total is, removing them is what >crypto anarchy and untraceable transactions make possible. Read about this >is my Cyphernomicon, released long before Jim Bell had his "wonderful idea." Yeah, yeah, I've read parts of it. I've been here a while under different email addresses, so I'm more than a little familiar with the whole crypto-anarchy thing. I just disagree with your "millions who need killing". Because some beleives in a polly-annaish world were taking guns away from the "good guys" also keeps them away from the "bad guys" is no reason to kill them. It's a reason to render them impotent until such time as they wake the hell up, and if they don't manage to wake the hell up until some mugger points a chinese manufactured .25 at them in the middle of the night and just fucking pulls the trigger because murder carries the same punishment (or less) than carrying a gun (enemy of the state) then "we" didn't kill them, they killed themselves. It's the leaders, the Guys In The Three Peice Suits that need the killing. The KNOW better. They have the information, they have the studies. They choose to manipulate people, to feed their fears and _tell_ them that disarming them is making them safer. They lie, and in lieing reduce the saftey of ALL of us. For that they deserve to hang. -- Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the nipples. (These ambulance guys sure know how to party). The Ideal we strive for: http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/bofh11.html No, I don't speak for playboy, They wouldn't like that. They really wouldn't. From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 09:13:05 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:13:05 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Statement Message-ID: <199812041645.RAA23979@replay.com> If these reports are correct, the United States could end up being one of the countries with the most LIBERAL export controls. In the United States, it is currently legal to export any cryptographic software you like - as long as it is in printed form. This is because of fears of violating the First Amendment. Not all countries have such strong conventions for protecting the printed word. PGP source code is being exported in printed form, scanned in overseas, and then distributed from there. If the Wassenaar Arrangement prevents it from being exported from its current overseas distribution site, a solution can be to ship it in printed form from the U.S. to a wide range of other countries. As long as those countries don't prohibit domestic distribution of crypto software, strong cryptography can still be made available almost everywhere. The PGP source code books begin with a section that is, in effect, a "how-to" for printing software in such a way that it can be reliably scanned. Each page and each line has a checksum. The books come with a Perl script short enough to enter by hand that does basic checksum verification. This is used to read a second, longer Perl script that can do error correction; and this is then used to bootstrap into the full script which will read the books, create all the files, organize the directories, and reconstruct the entire source code tree. It may be that in the future this will be the most effective way to communicate internationally about security software. It would be good for other groups to become familiar with this technology which has been pioneered by PGP. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 09:58:45 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:58:45 +0800 Subject: Send email list - go to jail for life in China [/.] Message-ID: <199812041729.LAA24557@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_224000/224907.stm > Cyber dissident awaits trial in China > By China Analyst James Miles > > A man is awaiting trial in Shanghai prison charged with using the > Internet to try to subvert the government. > > Patrick Lin, 30, was arrested in March for sending 30,000 Chinese > e-mail addresses to an Internet magazine run by Chinese dissidents > abroad. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 10:02:08 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:02:08 +0800 Subject: Ethical programming guild? [/.] Message-ID: <199812041731.LAA24617@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/04/1158251.shtml > The following was written by Slashdot Reader James Moyer . > > In proposing this idea, I think that it would a little bit of > background would be appropriate. I am a student at Ohio State, and I > have a strong interest in civil liberties and privacy issues. In fact, > I am now in the process of organizing an on-campus student > organization to criticize Ohio State's overuse of the social security > number, biometric identification and other related issues to privacy > directly concerning the university. > > Here on Slashdot I use the nickname JimBobJoe posting from email > address vampire at innocent.com. > > I also consider myself a Libertarian, and from many of the postings on > Slashdot, it appears that there are quite a lot of Libertarians out > there too. There is no coincidence, in my mind, that some of the most > stringent privacy laws in the nation hail from a highly technical, > Libertarian state, being Washington state. In the same vein, it is > rather amusing to see countries such as Malaysia attempt to draw > computer professions into their country, where the severity of their > laws turn many away. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Fri Dec 4 10:37:40 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:37:40 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:04 AM -0800 12/4/98, Petro wrote: > I just disagree with your "millions who need killing". Because some >beleives in a polly-annaish world were taking guns away from the "good >guys" also keeps them away from the "bad guys" is no reason to kill them. >It's a reason to render them impotent until such time as they wake the hell >up, and if they don't manage to wake the hell up until some mugger points a >chinese manufactured .25 at them in the middle of the night and just >fucking pulls the trigger because murder carries the same punishment (or >less) than carrying a gun (enemy of the state) then "we" didn't kill them, >they killed themselves. You are free to adopt the beliefs of what I'll call "the forgiveness libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as: "You've been stealing from me, sending my sons to die in your foreign wars, imprisoning my friends for what they smoke or eat...but let's let bygones be bygones...stop your stealing ways and we'll forget about what you did in the past." This is a dominant thread of libertarianism, though it is seldom articulated as I have just done. Look at the platform of the Libertarian Party and you'll see this "forget the past, look to the future" approach. I, on the other hand, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as: "You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians, cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time. Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen, with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps. Payback time." --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 11:02:51 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:02:51 +0800 Subject: export of printed crypto [Was Re:Wassenaar Statement] Message-ID: <199812041827.TAA03335@replay.com> The PGP source code is open, published in book form and this gets stronger 1st amendment protection. US crypto companies have also read the relevant portions of the EAR. Yet, none, to my knowledge, have tried this. Would any attorney reading the list care to comment? The EAR clearly states that printed crypto is not subject to the EAR whether the material is publically disseminated or not. Anyway, about one second after somebody did this another extra- constitutional "emergency" executive order would prohibit it. -Wassenaar >In the United States, it is currently legal to export any cryptographic >software you like - as long as it is in printed form. This is because >of fears of violating the First Amendment. Not all countries have such >strong conventions for protecting the printed word. >PGP source code is being exported in printed form, scanned in overseas, From petro at playboy.com Fri Dec 4 11:15:09 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:15:09 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199811290304.TAA06582@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: Looks like this one didn't make it out the first time around. It's a little late. Sorry. At 10:04 PM -0500 11/28/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >anyway I hate to say that I think he is really losing his >mind lately.. no there are going to be some serious y2k problems, >but imho the bottom approaches "garbage".. any talk of riots, >mobs, martial law, stockpiling weaponry, roving bandits >etc. seems to me to be really way off base to say the least. >now people have been talking about this, but I've never seen >gary north go quite that crazy. Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case: > Let's start with the basics: water. An urban adult >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day. This doesn't count Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day, including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon, and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink too much. I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long distance ride. Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking. Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long. Cooking: another gallon. Washing hands & dental hygene: 0ne more. Flushing toilets: 2-5 gallons per flush. Drinking one gallon of water a day gets you flushing a _lot_, about 10 flushes a day (we are going outer limits on this one) that is 20 to 50 gallons a day. Washing dishes shouldn't take more than 3 for pots & pans, and one for each persons utensils. Total: 40-75 (rounded up). That's for comfort. It also doesn't include watering the lawn or washing the car. >watering the lawn. In 2000, how many people will be under >your roof? Remember, your children may show up on your >doorstep, with wives and children. Families will pull >together for survival in 2000. Estimate the number of >people under your roof in 2000. Now, how much water will >you need per day? Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the toilets. So does the shower water. Then we only flush when we need to (i.e. not for every urination as when drinking 3/4 a gallon a day (we are cutting back a little) it's mostly straight water anyway). So that eliminates almost all of the 20-50 gallons. Then we only shower when necessary, rather than every day, we should be able to go 2-3 days between showers. No, it's not as pleasent, but at least it's not unsanitary. So we'll say every other day droping our daily consumption down to 5-7.5 We won't touch cooking, and we'll increase the washing hands/other hygene to 2 gallons to help make up for the lack of showers (actually, doing this you could strecth to 3 days easily). So: drinking: 3/4 gallon (note that not all of this has to be "water", fruit juice, sodas (at least until supplies run out) etc.) Showers: 5-7.5 Cooking: 1 gallon Washing hands &etc. 2 gallons. Flushing Toilets: Allocate 10 just in case. Washing dishs: 4 (we aren't skimping here for hygene reasons). Total: 22-25. One half to one quarter Mr. Norths claims, and I'd bet my numbers are still on the high side. This is also a fairly comfortable level compared to pure survival. > What if the municipal water authority shuts down? >It's goodbye showers. Goodbye flushing toilets. Hello sponge Only if you're a fucking idiot. You don't need potable water to shower with, and you sure as hell don't need it to flush a toilet. > Let's assume that for the first three months in 2000, >you will not get paid. The banks will be down. You will >not be able to write a check or use a credit card. What >will you do? Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull start their generators to keep their computers running. (I'm mostly joking about the above) > What will your neighbors do? Run for the suburbs. > If it's a year, it could be a decade. If it's a decade, we're all fucked. > What will you do? What is your exit strategy? Sit tight with several months of food (we have a largish lake nearby, Lake Michigan, maybe you've heard of it) & asst. supplies and see how things go. There are way too many variables to actually _plan_ an "exit strategy", and no where to go. > Should you head for the hills? Wrong question. What >solid evidence do you have that you shouldn't? Try this: NO WHERE TO GO. THERE ISN'T ENOUGH HILLS, AND EVERY ONE IS HEADING THERE. YOU CAN'T RAISE (large amounts) OF FOOD IN THE HILLS W/OUT TRACTORS AND SHIT, and you can't do it w/people shooting you to get your tractors, food, and desiel. > Should you stay where you are? What items will you Yes. >need in your possession in 2000 and 2001 to make your Adequate food, warm clothing, & assorted stuff (including a couple firearms for self protection. > Let me give a simple example. How will you wash >clothes for everyone? Let's assume that you have water. >(Dreamer!) You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry >detergent from Sam's Club for $10. It will do 160 loads. Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy soap at the store? Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap? Because it's a lot easier being a blowhard. >Their clothes will be dirty. You will be clean. You will >not have lost 30 pounds. You will be the target of envy on >a scale you can barely imagine today. You will be >despised. Will you be ready for this psychologically? Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like. >local bank deal with y2k. The question and answer session >is especially useful. It sells for $39.95: So over the next 12 months banks will fail, society will collapse, and TWAWKIWE, and he is trying to get rich off it. Things that make you go Huh? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From lee.davis at thomasmore.edu Fri Dec 4 11:32:35 1998 From: lee.davis at thomasmore.edu (Lee Davis) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:32:35 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence Message-ID: <9812049127.AA912797826@smtplink.thomasmore.edu> It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended as a block cypher. Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher be more effective for phone conversations? Both solutions require hardware for a practical (tolerably noiseless) implementation, so there's nothing to be gained by streaming data into a block format. In any case, there has been a lot of recent work in dynamic systems (Chaos), especially in the fast computations of Julia Sets. Has anyone seen a paper on exploiting the sensitive dependance in these systems for pseudorandom number generation? From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Dec 4 11:57:42 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:57:42 +0800 Subject: joy of export, h/ware Message-ID: <3668373B.7F32@lsil.com> >>What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It >>gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it? > > Not really. > Even if you don't know what you're looking for? Help me out with that one. > * PGPfone on a very fast cpu plus fast link is still less pleasant > than a noisy cordless (no pun intended). > You trust PGPfone on commercial HW enough to do your spy work with it? A system with dedicated audio compression ( http://www.dspg.com/ e.g. ) and a modem could probably be used to establish a secure, full-duplex link over the POTS. A microP, possibly with a small gate array to accel the crypto, would be able to handle the rest of job. Actually a pretty simple product. It could even use your dial-up account and be your internet phone. I know it has been done. I just won't be happy 'til it's in 50 million homes. > * We'd never take encryption hardware through the same path as modems, > would we? First used between companies, then used for remote access, > eventually you can't buy a bloody machine without one. Getting > cheaper, faster, closer to the motherboard, taken for granted by > applications. Ever seen a 300 baud, 40 lb modem, cost probably $3000 > in 1970 dollars? > Yes, I have. Fortunately encryption HW will not have to go through that sort of process. The frontier has been tamed, there are freeways everywhere - all you have to do is pick a lot and build. IOW - that 300 baud modem if done from scratch now would cost nowhere near $3000/unit. > The final level of deployment is when garage-door-openers, car > remotes, and childrens' toys (e.g., radio controlled cars) use > encryption chips... or chips with encryption, anyway. > The time is ripe. > The outside encrypting unit should also perform NAT, otherwise > the PC (doing the tunnelling) can broadcast traffic ('trap and trace' > in the pots world) info. > Clueless again! What is 'NAT'? > Email is so low-bandwidth that software suffices. > Absolutely. The issue there is more one of trustworthy HW and SW. Back to WINTEL/MICROSNORT. Again, !barf!. From jya at pipeline.com Fri Dec 4 12:18:32 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:18:32 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Addendum Message-ID: <199812041953.OAA18883@camel8.mindspring.com> Caspar Bowden in the UK says by telephone that a Wassenaar spokesman told him today that the WA org will issue next week a detailed "template" which specifies terms of the recent agreement to control encryption. It will go well beyond what has been heretofore generally agreed to by the member states under which there was a good bit of latitude for each to determine its own policy. This is an unprecedented united front by the members, and the paper will be a first for detailed export controls issued by the Wassenaar org rather than by each nation. When ready it will be put on the Wassenaar Web site: http://www.wassenaar.org. We've made a request to DoC for elaboration of the press release yesterday which featured David Aarons' general claims, but no response yet. The USG may not comment until the WA paper is issued. Caspar posted a capsule of his infor on UK Crypto: From: "Caspar Bowden" To: Subject: News from Wassenaar Secretariat Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:23:58 -0000 Message-ID: <000101be1fa2$9da127e0$dc77e4d4 at cpsb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Just talked to Dirk Weicke, Senior Adviser to Wassenaar Organisation. (Tel:+43 1 516360) No written details will be issued until next week, but gist is: *) No alteration to question of whether Wassenaar covers intangible exports. Up to signatory states to interpret and legislate. *) mass-market software, symmetric key length limited to 56-bits *) software generally available, but with other restrictive tests on end-user re-configurability, symmetric key length limited to 64-bits *) Assymetric key lengths (not sure how relates to above) limited to: RSA & Digital logarithm: 512 bits Elliptic curve : 112 bits -- Caspar Bowden http://www.fipr.org Director, Foundation for Information Policy Research Tel: +44(0)171 354 2333 Fax: +44(0)171 827 6534 ---------- From jim at acm.org Fri Dec 4 12:23:49 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:23:49 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence Message-ID: <36683D66.CCBCB35F@acm.org> "Lee Davis" skribis: > In any case, there has been a lot of recent work in dynamic systems (Chaos), > especially in the fast computations of Julia Sets. Has anyone seen a paper on > exploiting the sensitive dependance in these systems for pseudorandom number > generation? A number of attempts have been made to apply chaos to cryptosystems. The two that I've broken suffered from the same fault: although it's difficult to find the precise starting point (key) due to sensitive dependence, chaotic systems are by definition non-random, and have preferred orbits. If the cryptanalyst finds an orbit that's close to the one used by the actual key, the stream is mostly the same; this is good enough to hone the attack for the next pass. I'm not saying chaos has no applications in cryptography; only that the applications are not obvious. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 14 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 19:37 12.19.5.13.7, 6 Manik 20 Ceh, Sixth Lord of Night From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 4 12:29:50 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:29:50 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence In-Reply-To: <9812049127.AA912797826@smtplink.thomasmore.edu> Message-ID: At 1:53 PM -0500 on 12/4/98, Lee Davis wrote: > It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended as a >block > cypher. PGP is not a cipher. PGP is an application with a bunch of ciphers in it, most of the block ones. PGPfone is not a cipher either, it's an applicatoin with a bunch of ciphers in it, most of them stream ones... Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 4 12:38:54 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:38:54 +0800 Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: loki at sirius.infonex.com Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:08:01 -0800 To: Robert Hettinga , mac-crypto at vmeng.com From: Lance Cottrell Subject: Re: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? Sender: Precedence: Bulk Several people have offered, but none have produced a fully functional version. -Lance At 8:53 PM -0500 12/3/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >--- begin forwarded text > > >Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:42:19 +0100 >From: Anonymous >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > remailer administrator at . >Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? >To: cypherpunks at toad.com >Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >Precedence: first-class >Reply-To: Anonymous >X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > >I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client was being ported to >the Mac. Does anyone know the status of this project? > >--- end forwarded text > > >----------------- >Robert A. Hettinga >Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki at infonex.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. http://www.infonex.com/~loki/ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ---------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jim at acm.org Fri Dec 4 13:01:45 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:01:45 +0800 Subject: joy of export, h/ware Message-ID: <36684528.E3AB7D@acm.org> >>> What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It >>> gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it? >> >> Not really. Michael Motyka skribis: > Even if you don't know what you're looking for? Help me out with that > one. The question was "in the real world": in this case, as opposed to artificial challenges, you often (or normally) do have access to known or chosen plaintext. This can involve expected headers ("\nSubject: " somewhere near the beginning of a message has a good chance of giving you a 64-bit block), standard plaintext (". The " is a perennial favorite), or known C idioms ("#include \n") can all be tried. The EFF hardware is set up to look for various kinds of patterns. For example, it can check the high bit on the recovered plaintext, to see whether the result is ASCII. This is certainly the easiest way to get in if you're breaking normal uncompressed messages or source code. If it's compressed, you still may be OK -- most compression packages put magic file identifiers at the beginning, and some have guessable trees there. If you're breaking a transaction stream it's likely to be even easier, with the standard headers, even if you don't go to the trouble of injecting your own know transaction into the stream. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 14 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 20:22 12.19.5.13.7, 6 Manik 20 Ceh, Sixth Lord of Night From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 13:31:23 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:31:23 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812042048.OAA15267@manifold.algebra.com> Petro wrote: > Looks like this one didn't make it out the first time around. > It's a little late. Sorry. > > At 10:04 PM -0500 11/28/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > >anyway I hate to say that I think he is really losing his > >mind lately.. no there are going to be some serious y2k problems, > >but imho the bottom approaches "garbage".. any talk of riots, > >mobs, martial law, stockpiling weaponry, roving bandits > >etc. seems to me to be really way off base to say the least. > >now people have been talking about this, but I've never seen > >gary north go quite that crazy. > > Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case: > > > Let's start with the basics: water. An urban adult > >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day. This doesn't count > > Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day, > including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon, > and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink > too much. > > I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking > solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long > distance ride. > > Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking. > > Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long. Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers if you do not have enough water? The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes can be curtailed. Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. > Cooking: another gallon. It is included. > Washing hands & dental hygene: 0ne more. > > Flushing toilets: 2-5 gallons per flush. Drinking one gallon of > water a day gets you flushing a _lot_, about 10 flushes a day (we are going > outer limits > on this one) that is 20 to 50 gallons a day. > > Washing dishes shouldn't take more than 3 for pots & pans, and one > for each persons utensils. Much less. > Total: 40-75 (rounded up). Total: 2-3. > Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the > toilets. get them to shit outside. > > What if the municipal water authority shuts down? > >It's goodbye showers. Goodbye flushing toilets. Hello sponge > > Only if you're a fucking idiot. You don't need potable water to > shower with, and you sure as hell don't need it to flush a toilet. Correct. Gary North is not stupid. he realizes all this, as it is not rocket science. Then why he keeps telling all this? The answer is, to peddle his wares. I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and has a conflict of interests. > > Let's assume that for the first three months in 2000, > >you will not get paid. The banks will be down. You will > >not be able to write a check or use a credit card. What > >will you do? > > Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of > dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making > sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull > start their generators to keep their computers running. > (I'm mostly joking about the above) I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up. > > Let me give a simple example. How will you wash > >clothes for everyone? Let's assume that you have water. > >(Dreamer!) You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry > >detergent from Sam's Club for $10. It will do 160 loads. > > Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy > soap at the store? > > Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap? You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash. > Because it's a lot easier being a blowhard. > > > >Their clothes will be dirty. You will be clean. You will > >not have lost 30 pounds. You will be the target of envy on > >a scale you can barely imagine today. You will be > >despised. Will you be ready for this psychologically? > > Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like. No biggie. Besides, if you don't want to be despised, just don't be clean. - Igor. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 4 14:11:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:11:28 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence In-Reply-To: <9812049127.AA912797826@smtplink.thomasmore.edu> Message-ID: At 2:38 PM -0500 on 12/4/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: > PGP is not a cipher. PGP is an application with a bunch of ciphers in it, > most of the block ones. ^them... ...and I'm not even sure about the 'most' part. Could be all of them. Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From petro at playboy.com Fri Dec 4 14:22:40 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:22:40 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:00 PM -0500 12/4/98, Tim May wrote: >At 7:04 AM -0800 12/4/98, Petro wrote: > >> I just disagree with your "millions who need killing". Because some >>beleives in a polly-annaish world were taking guns away from the "good >>guys" also keeps them away from the "bad guys" is no reason to kill them. >>It's a reason to render them impotent until such time as they wake the hell >>up, and if they don't manage to wake the hell up until some mugger points a >>chinese manufactured .25 at them in the middle of the night and just >>fucking pulls the trigger because murder carries the same punishment (or >>less) than carrying a gun (enemy of the state) then "we" didn't kill them, >>they killed themselves. > >You are free to adopt the beliefs of what I'll call "the forgiveness >libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as: >"You've been stealing from me, sending my sons to die in your foreign wars, >imprisoning my friends for what they smoke or eat...but let's let bygones >be bygones...stop your stealing ways and we'll forget about what you did in >the past." You are (it seems) slightly misinterpreting what I am trying to say. The average individual, Joe Six-pack, doesn't start wars. He doesn't actually imprison anyone (unless he is a cop), and he doesn't (usually) vote for the laws that actually imprison people. In most cases he doesn't even vote at all. He is pawn, at most a peice to be sacrificed. It's the Kings and Queens that are the problem (and to carry the analogy further, the hand[s] that move them) that really diserve our anomosity. The politicians, and not even all of them, should be the targest of "our" ire. >This is a dominant thread of libertarianism, though it is seldom >articulated as I have just done. Look at the platform of the Libertarian >Party and you'll see this "forget the past, look to the future" approach. That is because the Libertarians are trying to join the football game, and to even be in the game, you have to be pleasant. >I, on the other hand, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance >libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as: > >"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed >laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your >military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can >forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback >time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians, >cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time. >Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen, >with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps. >Payback time." Which would be more satisfying to you, to shoot these people (personally I'm in favor of hangings, the ropes are not only a reusable resource, but afterwords we put them in glass cases in museums around the nation/world as permanent reminders of what _will_ happen when the people get pissed enough), or to watch them starve to death as most of them have no useful talents outside their ability to sway the population to their will? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From nobody at nowhere.to Fri Dec 4 14:37:04 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:37:04 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: Citibank in drug cash probe GAO report slams bank for secretly moving millions in alleged drug money December 4, 1998: 10:56 a.m. ET http://cnnfn.com/worldbiz/9812/04/citibank/ Citigroup's Dimon resigns - Nov. 02, 1998 Citibank Buys Into Microsoft-Supported E-Billing Venture - Sep. 14, 1998 General Accounting Office Citibank NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Citibank secretly transferred up to $100 million in alleged drug money for the brother of the former Mexican president and violated its own internal controls on money laundering, the General Accounting Office said Friday. The GAO charged in a report that the second-largest U.S. bank facilitated "a money-managing system that disguised the origin, destination and beneficial owner of the funds." The report, entitled "Raul Salinas, Citibank and Alleged Money Laundering," could lead to congressional hearings against Citibank in the new year. Salinas is the eldest brother of Carlos Salinas de Gortari, who served as Mexican president between 1988 and 1994. There have been repeated rumors that Salinas was linked to drug lords. But according to the report, Citibank's private banking unit asked Salinas few questions when approached by him in 1992. As a mid-level government employee, Salinas earned less than $200,00 a year. But between 1992 and 1994 he moved more than $90 million through Citibank accounts. Checks worth millions of dollars were taken by hand to Citibank Mexico by Salinas' wife Paulina. The money then was moved to Switzerland through a complex series of international transactions. Starting in mid-1992, the GAO said, "Citibank actions assisted Mr. Salinas with these transfers and effectively disguised the funds' source and destination, thus breaking the funds' paper trail." Citibank has its own "know-your-customer" procedures, which it failed to follow in the Salinas case, the GAO said. It was only after Salinas was charged with murder in 1995 that Citibank investigated the source of funds. Even then, according to a bank representative, "Citibank New York's Mexican division believed that all of Mr. Salinas' funds had been obtained legally, with a large portion resulting from the sale of a construction company he owned," the report states. "However, Citibank reportedly knew no details about the construction company, including its name, who had purchased it, or the amount of money generated by its sale." GAO investigators also criticize the bank for establishing a Cayman Islands trust to disguise the source and destination of Salinas' money. Salinas has denied any wrongdoing, saying that the money came from Mexican industrialists who wanted him to establish an investment fund. Citibank said in a statement the report "contains gross errors of fact and interpretation" and "ignores recent progress in strengthened law and industry procedures which Citibank strongly supports in keeping with our commitment to combat money laundering, to comply with the letter and spirit of related laws and to continually strengthen our procedures everywhere we operate." Spokesman Dick Howe added, "We have looked into the matter ourselves and have found that neither the company nor any employee has violated the law. We're cooperating fully with law enforcement authorities." The GAO said it was unable to determine whether Citibank broke U.S. money laundering laws. But the Justice Department also is investigating the company's actions. No law specifically requires banks to know their customers, but money laundering -- concealing the source of funds obtained from illegal activity including drug sales -- is illegal. Salinas is in prison, being tried for murder. Citibank is now part of Citigroup (C) following its merger with Travelers. From petro at playboy.com Fri Dec 4 15:22:39 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:22:39 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:48 PM -0500 12/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >> Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case: >> > Let's start with the basics: water. An urban adult >> >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day. This doesn't count >> Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day, >> including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon, >> and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink >> too much. >> I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking >> solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long >> distance ride. >> Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking. >> Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long. >Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers >if you do not have enough water? In the first block he was talking about _normal_ _day_to_day_ water usage. I was attacking that point. >The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the >faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes >can be curtailed. Not for long periods of time. General cleanlyness IS VERY important in survival situations. Clean skin and clothes help prevent infections from common wounds (like barking your shin against something, or a scratch from a tree branch &etc.) >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. Not in a crowded enviroment, that being a mid-sized town to a large city. >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. Countryside. >> Cooking: another gallon. >It is included. Included in what? The pasta? The rice? The beans? I am not talking about a camping trip here, I am talking about living off stored food for one to three months (anything longer (IMO) takes VERY VERY different preperations. >Much less. >> Total: 40-75 (rounded up). >Total: 2-3. In a max survival do-or-die situation, yes. For long term health, no. and besides, that was a number assuming "normal" usage. >> Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't >> dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the >> toilets. >get them to shit outside. Why, so bacteria can fester, and things like dystensia (spelled wrong, bacteria that causes "the shits" and other stomach problems) and other diseases run rampant? >I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly >not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and >has a conflict of interests. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the biggest problem with Y2K is not going to be technical, but the Cultists & Gun Nuts (as a distinct group from survivalists who simply wish to get on with their lives) realize that it isn't the Apocolypse, and then seek to make it so. >> Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of >> dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making >> sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull >> start their generators to keep their computers running. >> (I'm mostly joking about the above) >I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills Like I said, mostly. >vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long >run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up. Bet they tried to run you out of there, they don't want to hear that kinda stuff, they want to hear how to get the most out of their 4X4, argue over whether the AK is better than the M-16 (hint, if you have to shoot more than a clip, you're fucked) for a "survival" situation. >> > Let me give a simple example. How will you wash >> >clothes for everyone? Let's assume that you have water. >> >(Dreamer!) You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry >> >detergent from Sam's Club for $10. It will do 160 loads. >> >> Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy >> soap at the store? >> >> Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap? >You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash. That is what "lye" soap is (basically) >> Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like. >No biggie. >Besides, if you don't want to be despised, just don't be clean. That is not an option. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Dec 4 15:38:51 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:38:51 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence Message-ID: <36686876.1AF5@lsil.com> > It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended > as a block cypher. Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher > be more effective for phone conversations? Both solutions require > hardware for a practical (tolerably noiseless) implementation, so > there's nothing to be gained by streaming data into a block format. > Unless you have a really fast ( 1 Mbit / s? ) data connection you're going to want to do some voice compression. The algorithms I've seen break the audio into discrete time frames and (de)compress frame by frame. As a point of reference say about 16 bytes for every 33 msec of voice. Quality roughly follows data rate, of course. This makes a block cipher seem not so unreasonable. Block cipher or stream cipher, either way you're going to have to introduce a latency of _at_least_ a couple of frames to allow for resends or deliberate out-of-order frame transmission. This makes the block cipher look like the better choice. I think that using HW voice compression and a 33.6 modem you could get a full duplex secure conversation over POTS with a latency in the 0.1 - 0.3 second range and a direct cost in the vicinity of $100. With a reasonably quick microP any encryption method could probably be done as SW. This is not a particularly difficult device to build. Any fine US citizens want to build some prototypes? Mike From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 4 16:08:57 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:08:57 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Statement Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" To: "Robert Hettinga" , Subject: RE: Wassenaar Statement Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:02:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal We have seen this type of press release before. Uncle Sam goes off to a conference and returns to state that the rest of the world has committed to its position - only to find out later that the rest of the world did not. Anyone remembe the time the crypto Tzar went off to the European Association (a non binding talking shop) and got a similar 'undertaking'. It is more likely that the Wassenaar statement reflects what went on at the meeting. But even then most countries in Europe have a democratic process in which decisions are made by elected representatives and not by beaureacrats at closed treaty negotiations. Just as the munitions acts under which the ITAR crypto regulations are purported to be made clearly do not provide the executive with the powers claimed, neither do most of the European enabling acts for COCOM. Nor in a parliamentary system is it quite so easy for the executive to perform Zimmerman type persecutions. If the same tactics had been used in the UK the Home secretary would have faced political consequences for the failure of the prosecution. The Matrix Churchill affair played a significant part in the collapse of the Major government in the UK. I doubt Straw would be keen on a repeat. The UK DTI proposals requiring GAK as a condition of CA licensing may appear to meet the Freeh objectives but since there is no proposal to make licensing a requirement of doing business the result is most likely to be nobody becomes a 'licensed CA'. There is a legitimate business need for key recovery but nobody offering those services is going to want access to the customer's private keys. Doing so would be akin to keeping triffids as pets. It is not necessary to keep actual private keys to achieve the objective of controlling access to the private keys. Phill --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 4 16:14:11 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:14:11 +0800 Subject: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:19:58 -0500 (EST) From: Peter F Cassidy To: Robert Hettinga Cc: dcsb at ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Peter F Cassidy Friends, In e-mail exchanges with EC ministers and government ministers in W. European nations that I have had about Aarons one thing is consistent. All seemed to be shocked and dismayed at his ability to report out facts to the press in the US and to the Clinton Administration that have little to do with actual events. It would not surprise any of them if Aarons' unilaterally declared a 33 nation crypto-control agreement that was based entirely on his baroque misunderstanding of the facts. PFC On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > --- begin forwarded text > > > X-Sender: declan at mail.well.com > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:29:29 -0500 > To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is > disinformation > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu > Reply-To: declan at well.com > X-Loop: politech at vorlon.mit.edu > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > > [John is basing his analysis below on what's been posted on the Wassenaar > site so far, and these kinds of documents aren't always put online > immediately. That said, if Ambassador Aaron is talking about the online > documents and John's analysis is correct, the Clinton administration is > going beyond mere spin: it is trying to deliberately deceive. --Declan] > > ********* > > Subject: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation > > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:55:00 -0800 > From: John Gilmore > > I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that > the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for > mass market crypto software. (The NY Times and Reuters stories both > quote Ambassador Aarons.) > > This lack of confirmation includes the Wassenaar Arrangement statement > itself, which merely says: > > The amendments to the lists included elimination of coverage of > commonly available civil telecommunications equipment as well > as the modernisation of encryption controls to keep pace with > developing technology and electronic commerce, while also being > mindful of security interests. > > http://www.wassenaar.org/docs/press_4.html > > The Wassenaar Arrangement works by consensus; any member can block the > adoption of any item merely by voting against it. The policy Aarons > announced is directly contradictory to the recently reaffirmed > government policies of Finland and Ireland. In addition, Canada and > Germany have recently stated strong pro-crypto positions (while > waffling on the particular issue of the treatment of PD and MM > software). > > The Wassenaar Arrangement also states: > > This arrangement will not be directed against > any state or group of states and will not impede > bona fide civil transactions. > > To the extent that there is any attempt in the Agreement to control > mass market or public domain crypto software, such a provision > would clearly contradict this limitation written into the Arrangement. > The Arrangement is for military goods -- not for civilian goods. > PGP and other civilian crypto tools are not military by any stretch > of the imagination. It's hard to imagine that all 33 countries would > ignore this obvious problem, especially when it was pointed out to them > by concerted lobbying over the last several months. > > I also note that none of the statements are clear about exactly what > is affected. PGP, SSH, SSLEAY, Linux IPSEC, and many other crypto > tools are "public domain" rather than "mass market" software. The > General Software Note (originally from COCOM, and adopted bodily by > Wassenaar when it was formed) exempted both "public domain" and "mass > market" software from all controls. > > Finally, a companion paper released from Wassenaar yesterday shows a > clear concern by the body for human rights and fundamental freedoms: > http://www.wassenaar.org/docs/criteria.html: > > e. Is there a clearly identifiable risk that the weapons might > be used for the violation and suppression of human rights and > fundamental freedoms? > > (In this case if the the Aarons statement was true, Wassenaar itself > would be used for the violation and suppression of human rights and > fundamental freedoms. It's hard to see that the delegates would also > ignore this and vote to suppress human rights and freedoms.) > > So, I see two major probabilities here: > > * Either Aarons is lying, to see how much trouble this stirs up. > This would be taking a page from FBI Director Freeh, who > announced FBI support for domestic controls on crypto last year, > and was then disavowed by the Administration when a ruckus > resulted. > > * Or the NSA has cut a deal with these countries. Then the > question is: what did NSA offer in return? The usual trade > has been access to the flow of wiretaps (as in the UKUSA > agreement that gives Britain, NZ, Australia, and Canada access > to Echelon -- look who the strongest supporters of the US position > are). Another alternative is that they used wiretaps to > blackmail senior politicians in the recalcitrant countries. > (It happened in the US by J. Edgar Hoover for many years.) > > Do either of you have any info that would tend to confirm or deny > one of these theories? > > EFF and the GILC members are checking with various governments to > start to flesh out what *actually* happened. > > I should also note that developments like this are rather expectable. > Every time crypto policies get decided in a closed-door meeting where > the US government is invited, they get worse. Whenever crypto > policies are set in open meetings where the public and the press are > able to watch -- or even, god forbid, participate -- they get better. > The OECD meetings of a few years ago were intended to be the first, > but citizens and journalists swarmed the meeting site, buttonholed > delegates as they entered and left, and turned it into the second. We > should've done the same with this Wassenaar meeting. > > US civil libertarians are prying crypto policy decisions into the > light of day via the courts and the Freedom of Information Act. > Classified NSA/FBI testimony to Congress is getting declassified, and > then its obvious lies are easily rebutted by the public. > > The natural response of a bureacracy that is more concerned with its > own power to wiretap, than with making the right decisions for its > citizens, is to move its crypto maneuvering overseas into "diplomatic > meetings", held under cover of diplomatic secrecy, where they can lie > and twist arms with impunity. > > John > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology > To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: > subscribe politech > More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- end forwarded text > > > ----------------- > Robert A. Hettinga > Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to > "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". > For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Fri Dec 4 16:21:40 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:21:40 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence In-Reply-To: <36686876.1AF5@lsil.com> Message-ID: http://www.starium.com 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES. Have one, love it. --Lucky On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote: > > > It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended > > as a block cypher. Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher > > be more effective for phone conversations? Both solutions require > > hardware for a practical (tolerably noiseless) implementation, so > > there's nothing to be gained by streaming data into a block format. > > > Unless you have a really fast ( 1 Mbit / s? ) data connection you're > going to want to do some voice compression. The algorithms I've seen > break the audio into discrete time frames and (de)compress frame by > frame. As a point of reference say about 16 bytes for every 33 msec of > voice. Quality roughly follows data rate, of course. This makes a block > cipher seem not so unreasonable. > > Block cipher or stream cipher, either way you're going to have to > introduce a latency of _at_least_ a couple of frames to allow for > resends or deliberate out-of-order frame transmission. This makes the > block cipher look like the better choice. > > I think that using HW voice compression and a 33.6 modem you could get a > full duplex secure conversation over POTS with a latency in the 0.1 - > 0.3 second range and a direct cost in the vicinity of $100. With a > reasonably quick microP any encryption method could probably be done as > SW. > > This is not a particularly difficult device to build. Any fine US > citizens want to build some prototypes? > > Mike > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From mah248 at nyu.edu Fri Dec 4 16:24:51 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michal Hohensee) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:24:51 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812042048.OAA15267@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <36688ACA.C9F515B3@nyu.edu> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Petro wrote: > > Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the > > toilets. > > get them to shit outside. > Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea. This might be ok in the Russian countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing in just about any modern city. If running water fails to run in the cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside, it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and die. What with the high concentrations that people live in in most cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case of the flu. You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. Remember what cities were like in the middle ages? I believe some historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding countryside. Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of sanitation. Michael Hohensee From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Fri Dec 4 16:27:22 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:27:22 +0800 Subject: PGP Disk Message-ID: Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk? It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm. Is anyone aware of any security flaws with it? From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 16:28:17 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:28:17 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812042341.RAA18742@manifold.algebra.com> Petro wrote: > At 3:48 PM -0500 12/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >> Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case: > >> > Let's start with the basics: water. An urban adult > >> >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day. This doesn't count > >> Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day, > >> including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon, > >> and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink > >> too much. > >> I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking > >> solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long > >> distance ride. > >> Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking. > >> Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long. > >Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers > >if you do not have enough water? > > In the first block he was talking about _normal_ _day_to_day_ water > usage. I was attacking that point. > > >The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the > >faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes > >can be curtailed. > > Not for long periods of time. General cleanlyness IS VERY important > in survival situations. Clean skin and clothes help prevent infections from > common wounds (like barking your shin against something, or a scratch from > a tree branch &etc.) Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other clothes. > >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > > Not in a crowded enviroment, that being a mid-sized town to a large > city. Come one, you can set up big latrines outside houses. > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages > >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. > > Countryside. > > >> Cooking: another gallon. > >It is included. > > Included in what? The pasta? The rice? The beans? Well, yeah, of course. With pasta, you can make soup and eat the water, too. > I am not talking about a camping trip here, I am talking about > living off stored food for one to three months (anything longer (IMO) takes > VERY VERY different preperations. Well, yes, but still you need no more than 3 gallons of water, which was my main contention. > >Much less. > >> Total: 40-75 (rounded up). > >Total: 2-3. > > In a max survival do-or-die situation, yes. For long term health, > no. and besides, that was a number assuming "normal" usage. It is entorely possible to live a decent life off of 3 gallons of water per day. I am speaking out of my experience. > >> Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't > >> dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the > >> toilets. > >get them to shit outside. > > Why, so bacteria can fester, and things like dystensia (spelled dysenteria > wrong, bacteria that causes "the shits" and other stomach problems) and > other diseases run rampant? There is no problem with a properly set up outside toilet. There is a problem with eating unwashed food AND dirty hands. To set up a toilet, dig a hole about 3-4 feet deep, fortify it somewhat so that it would not cave in (for most soils fortification is unnecessary). Then, build something above the hole so that people would not be embarrassed to go there. That's IT. Our country house in Russia used this system, it is reasonably safe, etc. The whole neighborhood of houses used this system, as did millions of other Russians. It _is_ safe. (Our apartment in Moscow had a regular flush toilet bathroom). > >I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly > >not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and > >has a conflict of interests. > > I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the biggest problem with > Y2K is not going to be technical, but the Cultists & Gun Nuts (as a > distinct group from survivalists who simply wish to get on with their > lives) realize that it isn't the Apocolypse, and then seek to make it so. A point I also made recently. > >> Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of > >> dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making > >> sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull > >> start their generators to keep their computers running. > >> (I'm mostly joking about the above) > >I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills > > Like I said, mostly. > > >vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long > >run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up. > > Bet they tried to run you out of there, they don't want to hear > that kinda stuff, they want to hear how to get the most out of their 4X4, > argue over whether the AK is better than the M-16 (hint, if you have to > shoot more than a clip, you're fucked) for a "survival" situation. No, they were pretty nice. Not all of them agreed, but they had a sensible discussion. > >> > Let me give a simple example. How will you wash > >> >clothes for everyone? Let's assume that you have water. > >> >(Dreamer!) You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry > >> >detergent from Sam's Club for $10. It will do 160 loads. > >> > >> Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy > >> soap at the store? > >> > >> Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap? > >You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash. > > That is what "lye" soap is (basically) Ahh, thanks. - Igor. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 16:55:01 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:55:01 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) Message-ID: <199812050044.SAA26846@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:22:18 -0500 > From: Michal Hohensee > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions > You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. > Remember what cities were like in the middle ages? I believe some > historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding > countryside. Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of > sanitation. Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out into the street along with the offal from the various animals. The reality is that the folks who support the various systems would have them no manual over-ride within 24 - 48 hours so the worst case scenario won't happen. Countries that aren't automated won't notice the difference and the city services that are won't be down more than a week. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 16:58:12 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:58:12 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) Message-ID: <199812050046.SAA26911@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:40:59 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for > survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. True, you don't have to water your grass and wash your car. > For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, > you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other > clothes. You won't do that sort of stuff for long. A couple of months at best before you get skin infections and then it's down-hill from there. It's pretty much a bogus point though since none of the systems like power, water, and sewer won't be down more than a week at most. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 17:05:50 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:05:50 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812050044.SAA26846@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812050046.SAA19446@manifold.algebra.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:22:18 -0500 > > From: Michal Hohensee > > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions > > > You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. > > Remember what cities were like in the middle ages? I believe some > > historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding > > countryside. Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of > > sanitation. > > Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a > sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out > into the street along with the offal from the various animals. Guess why they had those devastating epidemics. - Igor. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 17:08:06 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:08:06 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <36688ACA.C9F515B3@nyu.edu> Message-ID: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com> Michal Hohensee wrote: > > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Petro wrote: > > > Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't > > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the > > > toilets. > > > > get them to shit outside. > > > > Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea. This might be ok in the Russian > countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing > in just about any modern city. If running water fails to run in the > cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside, > it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and > die. What with the high concentrations that people live in in most > cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case > of the flu. Like I said, someone would need to build a latrine. That's all that's needed. - Igor. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 17:17:23 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:17:23 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) Message-ID: <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:46:17 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov at Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a > > sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out > > into the street along with the offal from the various animals. > > Guess why they had those devastating epidemics. True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 17:35:02 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:35:02 +0800 Subject: . Message-ID: <199812050110.CAA14572@replay.com> ... > A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination > of the likely environment: > ... > 5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide > what might be described as Pretty Good Security will > be when we have software that maintains a regular > or random rate of messages to and from the remailer > cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages > can be inserted with no visible change in traffic. > Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic > levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough > to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis. Well, the existing remailer net doesn't make "Pretty Good" anonymity very feasible. I'd think something based on the general idea behind Crowds. (Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security concerns -- 1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised 2: clients really can be screwed 3: etc. To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count. To help solve the second problem, there needs to be a better web-of-trust setup -- that is, one which applies to code as well as keys. Those who wish to verify code get a .sig-verifying program from a trusted source then use a WoT to authenticate various facets of the program necessary for security. A solution to the third problem is expected RSN.) > > 6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences. Remember the consequences to an adversary who uses its secret decoder ring, though: the more plausible it becomes that a certain source is being used for intelligence-gathering, the more likely it is that that source will promptly begin to run dry as the spied-upon realize that Something Got Broke. My advice, however, agrees with that of the other Anonymous. That is, unless you've really thought things out, think of an remailed message as merely .sigless, not anonymous. > > 7. Take names. Always take names. Some day... > > FUDBusterMonger > > It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD! From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 17:50:53 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:50:53 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812050121.TAA19903@manifold.algebra.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > > Forwarded message: > > > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:46:17 -0600 (CST) > > From: ichudov at Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > > > Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a > > > sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out > > > into the street along with the offal from the various animals. > > > > Guess why they had those devastating epidemics. > > True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The > various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in > parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. > > It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it. - Igor. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 17:52:15 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:52:15 +0800 Subject: . In-Reply-To: <199812050110.CAA14572@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812050126.TAA19947@manifold.algebra.com> Anonymous wrote: > > > > ... > > A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination > > of the likely environment: > > > ... > > 5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide > > what might be described as Pretty Good Security will > > be when we have software that maintains a regular > > or random rate of messages to and from the remailer > > cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages > > can be inserted with no visible change in traffic. > > Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic > > levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough > > to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis. > > Well, the existing remailer net doesn't make "Pretty Good" anonymity very > feasible. I'd think something based on the general idea behind Crowds. > > (Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security > concerns -- > 1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised > 2: clients really can be screwed > 3: etc. > > To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the > security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with > something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of > course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count. As long as you do not see the box and do not control its manufacture, I see no reason why you should have ny more trust in it. igor > To help solve the second problem, there needs to be a better web-of-trust > setup -- that is, one which applies to code as well as keys. Those who wish to > verify code get a .sig-verifying program from a trusted source then use a WoT > to authenticate various facets of the program necessary for security. > > A solution to the third problem is expected RSN.) > > > > > 6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences. > > Remember the consequences to an adversary who uses its secret decoder ring, > though: the more plausible it becomes that a certain source is being used for > intelligence-gathering, the more likely it is that that source will promptly > begin to run dry as the spied-upon realize that Something Got Broke. My > advice, however, agrees with that of the other Anonymous. That is, unless > you've really thought things out, think of an remailed message as merely > .sigless, not anonymous. > > > > > 7. Take names. Always take names. Some day... > > > > FUDBusterMonger > > > > It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD! > - Igor. From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 18:26:14 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:26:14 +0800 Subject: PGP Disk Message-ID: <199812050205.DAA19561@replay.com> >Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk? >It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of >encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm. Is anyone aware of >any security flaws with it? I'm sure somebody will check if they are bored some day. Where can we find the source code? If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general rule. From whgiii at openpgp.net Fri Dec 4 18:26:24 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:26:24 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812050120.UAA006.51@whgiii> In <199812050109.TAA27156 at einstein.ssz.com>, on 12/04/98 at 07:09 PM, Jim Choate said: >True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The >various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in >parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. >It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. I have never seen anything close to "civilization" in a major city. I doubt anyone would notice the added stench if the sewers went out in one of those cesspools. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From gnu at toad.com Fri Dec 4 19:09:07 1998 From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:09:07 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> I spoke some hours ago with Tatu Ylonen in Finland. His company has confirmation from the Finnish government that the government agreed to a proposal to limit mass-market crypto exports to 56 bits. Perhaps he or someone else from SSH can post more details. So *something* really did happen at the Wassenaar meeting, but we don't know two important things: * What exactly did they agree to? In particular, is public domain -- as opposed to mass market -- crypto controlled? * And what did NSA offer, to convince many countries to directly contradict policies that they had arrived at during year-long public consultations with their own citizens? A carrot? A stick? Blackmail from wiretaps? Access to NSA's wiretap network in return for cooperation? What was the strong motivation for so many countries to go against their own economic and self-determination interests? It was pointed out to me that the Wassenaar Arrangement has no legal effect. Each country has to go back and amend its own local controls. However, I personally saw cases more than a year ago where both Japan and Belgium were restricting bona fide civilian crypto transactions "because Wassenaar requires us to" when in fact it didn't. This development will give these countries much more "cover" to implement draconian policies, under secret arm-twisting from the US. We will have to fight this one in the trenches, in each country. First step is to raise a hue and cry and put each government on the defensive (as they well ought to be). Then let's find out what "deal" they made with the devil. Finally let's see whether, as Perry says, civil rights and political processes work, and the will of the people will actually end up codified in the laws of each country. Or not. John PS: I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers. A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron? What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is. From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Dec 4 19:17:42 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:17:42 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism Message-ID: <3668A217.32CB@lsil.com> My oh my, The alternative to outright revolution has historically been to pack up and ship out to whatever frontier was in vogue. Dangerous, difficult, but apparently compelling if the home situation sucked badly enough. Potentially very rewarding to the survivors. The historical fate of any frontier has been that as soon as it has become somewat hospitable the shitheads arrive with their carpet bags and make it over into the same fucking thing that everyone ran away from in the first place. The first sign of inFESTERation was often a church, followed by a town hall which filled up quickly enough and shortly thereafter hired a sheriff to enforce the town gun ban and who eventually needed more men... And so the cycle repeats with the virtual frontier we're in right now. It was just fine until "they" came along to "civilize" it. Unfortunately backs are to the wall and there is nowhere else to go because SPACE SUCKS MOOSE ALIENS DRY LIKE BUGS. Top that. they - esRb to civilize - to own, regulate, commercialize and tax esRb - evil, scumsucking, Reptilian bastards I could probably develop some sort of virtual space cowboy allegory here that would go on for (p)ages and involve the painful, bloody death of many an evil villian at the hand of a courageous hero and enough deviant sex ( whinny ) to keep the audience enthralled to the very end. The story could probably be continued until well after the traffic has subsided but what the hell, I like driving 5 mph, it's good for my car's engine, my patience and the bandwidth shortage. m From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Dec 4 19:24:18 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:24:18 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence Message-ID: <3668A32C.5954@lsil.com> > http://www.starium.com > 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES. The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week - they're practically local. What's the approximate price? I have another question for you: I thought I was a real whiz kid a few years back when I figured out that by using an agreed upon startup key then using a "random" public/private key pair generated by the SW, two voice stations could exchange a "random" session key. With thumbscrews and the rack you could not get the session key. Even the dreaded rubber hose would fail. The startup key protected the PK. The ultimate security was as good as the PK portion. The conversation was practically pre-shredded. I was bummed when I discovered this had already been patented and was called EKE. Does the Starium phone accomplish this effect? Mike From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 21:10:30 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:10:30 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) Message-ID: <199812050458.WAA27935@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:36 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov at Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The > > various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in > > parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. > > > > It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. > > Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it. True enough. Power, water, police, fire, etc. will come back pretty quickly if anyone notices it was ever down. The really poor won't notice anything. The most effected would be the wealthy. There will be outbreaks in Compton and similar ilk but by no stretch of the imagination will it become a conflagration. That's the beauty of an armed populace. Even if the police don't respond it'll burn out as the front of rioters thin with increasing radius and the odds go down. I'd bet the delivery of foodstuffs to the store wouldn't slow down one bit. It's possible to run a combine without the GPS. The trucks are driven by people, they're loaded by fork-lifts. And you'll need to hunt long and hard for a commercial freezer with a clock in it. I've never seen a damn that didn't have manual gate controls so flood control and hydro-electric will come back pretty quickly. The actual switch control panel in power plants have manual over-rides everywhere. Ditto for electric power grids. Mass transportation like trains and aircraft will be effected. Individual transportation like cars won't stop. Inconvenient and expensive, you betcha. The decline of western civilization, not hardly. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 21:14:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:14:50 +0800 Subject: the shit hitting the fan Message-ID: <199812050500.GAA01545@replay.com> At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. Moron. At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded gas, etc., no problem. LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that after a week. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 4 21:22:16 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:22:16 +0800 Subject: the shit hitting the fan (fwd) Message-ID: <199812050515.XAA28089@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100 > From: Anonymous > Subject: the shit hitting the fan > At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > > > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages > >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. > > Moron. At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded > gas, > etc., no problem. > > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that > after a week. It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable. I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps move it around). ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 4 21:22:47 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:22:47 +0800 Subject: pgp disk Message-ID: <199812050508.GAA02103@replay.com> At 03:05 AM 12/5/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote about some new product: >If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general >rule. Where is the source for pgpfone? From hallam at ai.mit.edu Fri Dec 4 21:36:01 1998 From: hallam at ai.mit.edu (Phillip Hallam-Baker) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:36:01 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01be200d$d7be9e10$8007a8c0@russell.internal> John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings. The interpretation of the US ambassador appears to be based on the assumption that the governmental proceedures of democratic countries are like those of his home country. In fact European governments cannot make law simply by telling the national police force to arrest folk who engage in particular behaviour. The system of checks and balances may be described in the US constitution but it is entrenched in the European polity. The UK does not have a national police force precisely to stop Hooverism. Even directives of the European Commission do not have legal force until the national parliaments enact legislation to implement the directive. One should also remember that the government of the Netherlands has agreed to control the sale and use of narcotics. If their efforts to control cryptography are as dilligent we have nothing to worry about. In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is one export zone for crypto control purposes. I fail to see that stopping Brits from exporting crypto to the US changes the equation a great deal. There once was an English king called Canute who attempted to demonstrate to his courtiers that he was fallible and could not order the tide to turn. Perhaps Clinton's courtiers need to learn that they suffer the same limmitation. Phill From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Fri Dec 4 22:40:56 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:40:56 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence In-Reply-To: <3668A32C.5954@lsil.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote: > > > http://www.starium.com > > 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES. > > The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I > was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week - > they're practically local. What's the approximate price? The company used to be called Comsec. http://www.comsec.com/ They've expanded and are working on the next revision of the product. The old version was $750 each. The new version will be a lot less expensive. When you call, ask for Eric Blossom. (831) 333-9393 x12 > I have another question for you: > > I thought I was a real whiz kid a few years back when I figured out that > by using an agreed upon startup key then using a "random" public/private > key pair generated by the SW, two voice stations could exchange a > "random" session key. With thumbscrews and the rack you could not get > the session key. Even the dreaded rubber hose would fail. The startup > key protected the PK. The ultimate security was as good as the PK > portion. The conversation was practically pre-shredded. > > I was bummed when I discovered this had already been patented and was > called EKE. > > Does the Starium phone accomplish this effect? Starium's current generation phone encryption device, the GSP8191, performs a 2048 bit DH key exchange to establish a 3DES session key. Each party then reads out half of the hash. If the hashes match, you know that you are not subject to an MIM attack. The system has perfect forward secrecy. Thumb screws will have no effect. :-) -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Fri Dec 4 22:41:01 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:41:01 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, John Gilmore wrote: > We will have to fight this one in the trenches, in each country. > First step is to raise a hue and cry and put each government on the > defensive (as they well ought to be). Ultimately, It won't make a difference, but sure, why not. Crypto regs can go one way, and one way only: more restrictive. See some 5 years of my postings on this topic. Lobbying and litigation can only delay the arrival of a total ban on general purpose strong crypto, not prevent it. Note that I am not at all claiming that either lobbying or litigation is useless. By all means, keep it up. It just won't change the fact that the ratchet turns only into one direction. Until the ratchet breaks, but that is another matter entirely and tends to be acompanied by lots of dead bodies. > Then let's find out what "deal" > they made with the devil. I doubt we will find out anytime soon. Favors? Blackmail? Most likely all of the above. But it doesn't matter why the representative of country A or B voted for export controls. We already know that most, if not all, governments would fall all over themselves banning crypto outright were they exposed to some of the traffic this list has seen over the years. What does surpise me, however, is why some people (not John) tend act surprised when the ratchet tightens yet another notch. I can't help but wonder if they are equally surprised when the sun goes up in the morning or tide moves in. Weird. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From jf_avon at citenet.net Fri Dec 4 22:49:43 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:49:43 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY ! Message-ID: <199812050630.BAA02739@cti06.citenet.net> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:35:56 -0800 >From: Donna Ferolie >Subject: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY ! This message has gone out to firearm owners all over the world as well on the cdn-firearm chat and cdn-firearm digest. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY This message is specifically dedicated to sport shooters from around the globe. I would like to acknowledge our friends from the U.K, South Africa, Brazil, New Zealand, Australia and the good old U.S.A. I have just sent out idividual messages to all of these countries and some others including Germany, Belgium, Austria, Boliva, Argentina, Aruba Slovakia and Barbados. If your country has not been listed please contact me directly. I am trying to develop a list of countries that are logging onto our open firearms chat line. It is my goal to have firearm owners from every country monitoring and sharing their experiences. Please encourage fellow shooters in your country to come on line and take advantage of this open forum. I fully realize that the primary focus of the Canadian Firearms Chat Line is aimed at Canadian gun laws; however, there is a great deal of pertinent international information that could be shared in this medium and we will all be the beneficiaries if we willfully share our ideas and experiences. I have another strategy up my sleeve regarding rallying the international firearm community prior to the final outcome of the United Nations firearms workshops in the year 2000; therefore it is paramount that we maintain frequent global communications. I will be exploring some of my ideas with the NRA and the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia in the new year and floating some draft strategies for open discussion. Moreover, I fully intend on attending most of the United Nations firearm workshops therefore having everyone connected to one open forum would assist me in getting this information out all of you in a quick concise manner. I've had a few myopic individuals ask me why I should be so concerned about gun control in other countries ? As far as I am concerned we should all be concerned -VERY concerned ! When one of our sister countries falls we should all feel their pain and learn something valuable, because we may be next. We cannot for a minute forget about the draconian laws rammed down the throats of other Commonwealth countries in particular or any free-thinking society. Can we really delude ourselves into thinking that it couldn't happen here- don t kid yourself, as I write, the erosion of our rights is going down the same path as Australians are treading, faster than we care to admit, and we all should instinctively know it? How would Canadians like to have all of their semis and pump shotguns and rifles declared illegal and confiscated overnight by a communist-leaning, bleeding heart liberal government- think about it !! It is important for Canadians to realize that countries all over the world feel no different that we do. They feel just as vulnerable and thus are seeking guidance and support. We are in an excellent position to offer assistance to each other via this open forum. I truly believe we can learn from each others mistakes and triumphs. Perhaps if we can tap into this universal intelligence on a continuous basis we could overtake the mighty Goliath. If time permits I would like to post the names of all anti-firearm NGO's and their meetings which are going on simultaneously all over the world as we speak. I think it is high time that we banded together as one solid global unit in an effort to effectively launch a counter attack against those that take glee in the gradual erosion of our civil rights and liberties. A frequent complaint about this type of forum is the problem of receiving an excessive number of messages, but I believe the rewards associated with this hassle far out weigh the inconvenience. I care very much that our friends in South Africa are now subject to new guns laws. I am sickened by what has transpired in Australia and the U.K. I want the world to know how crime has escalated in Brazil and yet they live under the most stringent gun control laws. As a point of interest the " boys from Brazil " will be preparing a written paper outlining this very fact which I will present on their behalf to the anti-gun Brazilian delegation at the next U.N workshop in Vienna in the latter part of Jan/99. In conclusion, if you are interested in banding together as one strong universal voice, then get your friends connected to this open chat /and or digest. Let us not lose focus of our own battle at home, but let us not turn a blind eye to our global neighbours struggles. I understand that English is a problem for some of you, but we are understanding and we willing to work through any language barriers. So please do NOT feel uncomfortable to communicate with us - we d love to hear what has transpired in your country ! Remember, repeated blows to the lower extremities will eventually cause the giant to fall ! You can subscribe to the Canadian Firearms Digest and the Firearms Chat line by 1) Subcribe to the cdn chat & cdn digest ( separately ) 2) e-mailing the following address for both chat & digest: 3) Leave the subject section blank 4) Write in the body of the message subscribe cdn-firearm chat end subcribe cdn-firearm digest end Remember when you are subscribing to the chat is separate from the digest. Please feel free to contact me anytime at the following: donnaferolie at sympatico.ca Donna Ferolie Keep up the fight! Donna Ferolie Canada ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 22:56:18 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:56:18 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812050458.WAA27935@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812050638.AAA00663@manifold.algebra.com> Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:36 -0600 (CST) > > From: ichudov at Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > > > True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The > > > various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in > > > parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. > > > > > > It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. > > > > Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it. > > True enough. Power, water, police, fire, etc. will come back pretty quickly > if anyone notices it was ever down. The really poor won't notice anything. > The most effected would be the wealthy. There will be outbreaks in Compton > and similar ilk but by no stretch of the imagination will it become a > conflagration. That's the beauty of an armed populace. Even if the police > don't respond it'll burn out as the front of rioters thin with increasing > radius and the odds go down. > > I'd bet the delivery of foodstuffs to the store wouldn't slow down one bit. > It's possible to run a combine without the GPS. The trucks are driven by > people, they're loaded by fork-lifts. And you'll need to hunt long and hard > for a commercial freezer with a clock in it. > > I've never seen a damn that didn't have manual gate controls so flood > control and hydro-electric will come back pretty quickly. The actual switch > control panel in power plants have manual over-rides everywhere. Ditto for > electric power grids. > > Mass transportation like trains and aircraft will be effected. Individual > transportation like cars won't stop. > > Inconvenient and expensive, you betcha. The decline of western civilization, > not hardly. It's a flexible society. - Igor. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 4 23:05:30 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:05:30 +0800 Subject: the shit hitting the fan In-Reply-To: <199812050500.GAA01545@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812050639.AAA00677@manifold.algebra.com> Anonymous wrote: > At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > > > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages > >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. > > Moron. At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded > gas, > etc., no problem. > > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that > after a week. Dumbass, latrines solve this problem. Computer your shit volume yourself. - Igor. From tcmay at got.net Fri Dec 4 23:17:37 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:17:37 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> Message-ID: (cryptography at c2.net removed from distribution list) At 10:17 PM -0800 12/4/98, Lucky Green wrote: >Ultimately, It won't make a difference, but sure, why not. Crypto regs can >go one way, and one way only: more restrictive. See some 5 years of my >postings on this topic. Lobbying and litigation can only delay the arrival >of a total ban on general purpose strong crypto, not prevent it. Note that >I am not at all claiming that either lobbying or litigation is useless. By >all means, keep it up. It just won't change the fact that the ratchet >turns only into one direction. Until the ratchet breaks, but that is >another matter entirely and tends to be acompanied by lots of dead bodies. Indeed. What more is there to say on this point? One way only. Even the "do gooders" actually make things worse, by "greasing the skids" for legislative talk and legislative "compromise"...said compromise always being another turn of ratchet. (This applies to many industries. I recently heard T.J. Rodgers, CEO of Cypress Semiconductor, repeat his oft-made point that Silicon Valley and the high tech industry gains _nothing_ by talking to Washington. That as soon as dialog is started with Washington, things get worse. This applies as well to crypto, to gun rights, to everything. Everything Washington touches turns to statist shit.) On another topic, what of the "free export of crypto" nations? Some nations, or folks in some nations, like to talk about how they are actually "more free" than Americans are because they can export strong crypto. Canada comes to mind, as there are a couple of companies we know about using the ostensibly weaker Canadian export controls. (I maintain, and Lucky can be my witness that I expressed this forcefully to some Canadian entrepreneurs very recently, that Canada's relative laxness on crypto arises first, from their ignorance of the issues and second, from the fact that Washington hasn't yet told them how high to jump. I have long believed the U.S. would issue the orders and other countries would turn out to be just as restrictive, if not more restrictive, as they have fewer in-country protections against restrictions on strong crypto. If Canada, Finland, etc. tighten up, can Anguilla be far behind?) >I doubt we will find out anytime soon. Favors? Blackmail? Most likely >all of the above. Or perhaps "strange fruit"? That is, hackers found hanging from a tree.... Or direct deposits to the Swiss bank accounts of Wassenaar delegates? Or just intense lobbying, threats of foreign aid cutoffs, and repeated showings of the "If you only knew what we know" videotape (specially converted to PAL). Nothing very surprising. --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From gnu at toad.com Sat Dec 5 00:00:58 1998 From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:00:58 +0800 Subject: Which way are crypto regs going? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812050741.XAA26301@toad.com> Lucky Green said: > Ultimately, It won't make a difference, but sure, why not. Crypto regs can > go one way, and one way only: more restrictive. Lucky's such an optimist! Actually, crypto regs have gone many different directions. The general direction in the US is toward more openness. (I've been watching them longer than Lucky has been.) Authentication used to be licensed. It isn't any more -- though the bastards reserve the right to lie about what is authentication. ATM machines used to require a license. 40-bit crypto used to require a license. Financial institutions used to require licenses. Big companies used to need licenses for intra-company use. DES used to require a license. (Still does, until the incredibly cold warriors move their bowels and produce a new, uh, release of the regs.) Maybe sometime next year I'll be able to say, "Publishing crypto on the net used to require a license but now it doesn't, since the courts started enforcing the Constitution." Whether this happens or not is NOT under the control of the NSA -- I think. On the other hand, crypto regs in other countries tended to start from "unrestricted", so indeed there was no way they could go from there except "more restrictive". But after the first dollop of restriction, they could go either way, as we've seen in various countries. Germany for example seems to be loosening. Canada turned out to be looser than anyone had suspected, and is still trying to be loose despite intense arm-twisting by US wiretappers. Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy, the USSA. And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the right choices. Let's keep trying. John From gnu at toad.com Sat Dec 5 00:05:18 1998 From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:05:18 +0800 Subject: Greg Taylor: preliminary Wassenaar details from three countries Message-ID: <199812050742.XAA26319@toad.com> [Greg graciously allowed me to repost this. --gnu] Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 15:22:53 +1000 From: Greg Taylor Hi John, You wrote: >I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that >the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for >mass market crypto software. (The NY Times and Reuters stories both >quote Ambassador Aarons.) I think Aarons must have an advanced degree in spin doctoring, but nevertheless information about new restrictions on mass market software has also come from 3 independent well-placed sources. >From the UK crypto list: ================= Just talked to Dirk Weicke, Senior Adviser to Wassenaar Organisation. Tel:+43 1 516360) No written details will be issued until next week, but gist is: *) No alteration to question of whether Wassenaar covers intangible exports. Up to signatory states to interpret and legislate. *) mass-market software, symmetric key length limited to 56-bits *) software generally available, but with other restrictive tests on end-user re-configurability, symmetric key length limited to 64-bits *) Assymetric key lengths (not sure how relates to above) limited to: RSA & Digital logarithm: 512 bits Elliptic curve : 112 bits ===================== And here's a view from David Jones (EFC), from the GILC list: ===================== - There is "some relaxation" for restrictions on symmetric methods using key lengths of 56 bits or less. Stronger crypto would require an export license. - There is no restriction on mass-market software using symmetric methods and a key length of 64 bits or less. Stronger mass-market crypto would require an export license. - "Public Domain Software is not restricted" [If this is really true, this is still an important loophole.] - There is not yet any clear information about the status of "intangible goods", like crypto software on a web site, or sent by email, as opposed to "tangible goods", like software on a floppy disk or CD-ROM. - The restrictions on mass-market software greater than 64 bits is "for public safety" reasons and will last for 2 years, after which it will be reviewed. ============================= Yesterday I got the Australian government interpretation from Robbie Costmeyer in Canberra. Costmeyer is the Defence bureaucrat responsible for approving export licenses. I was told that Wassenaar had now agreed that the General Software Note waiver no longer applied to Category 5/2 items (i.e. crypto) on the controlled goods list. It has always been the view of Defence Signals Directorate here that it was an oversight that crypto software came under the GSN. That reason was used to justify Australia's going one step further than required under the original Wassenaar Arrangement and disallowing exemptions to the export licensing rules. A few other countries do the same (USA, New Zealand, France, Russia). Canberra thus views the latest change as the correction of an oversight. Clearly there is a difference of interpretation here regarding public domain software (compare the Canadian view above). This question needs further investigation. The Australian view is that the latest Wassenaar changes are a relaxation of the previous rules. And they're right, when compared with the previous rules applying here. Australia will now move to amend the Defence Strategic Goods List (DSGL) to allow exemptions for small key lengths as decribed above. For other countries, the effects remain to be seen. We'll just have to wait for more information to filter out. Greg From tdupri at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 01:07:17 1998 From: tdupri at hotmail.com (Thomas Dupri) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:07:17 +0800 Subject: FREE WEEK XXX PORN SEX http://i.am/dupri Message-ID: <419.436134.15638692tdupri@hotmail.com> PORN AT IT'S FINEST! YOUR SEARCH IS OVER! CLICK NOW FOR A FREE FREE FREE LIMITED TIME OFFER! ONE WEEK FREE! HURRY! http://i.am/dupri http://i.am/dupri From announce at zdnet.zdlists.com Sat Dec 5 20:30:18 1998 From: announce at zdnet.zdlists.com (ZDNet Announce) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:30:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: ZDNet and ZDTV Forums Update Message-ID: <199812060315.WAA24865@america.interstep.com> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is the second message from ZD to all the members of our message boards. It contains information and tips about a coming transition to new software. You will receive just one or two more of these messages in the coming week. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When you go to the ZDNet or ZDTV forums on Tuesday, Dec. 8, you will find the new Deja News software in place. You will see some differences in the way the message boards operate, so you may need to experiment a little. If you are very familiar with our current forum features, it will take some time to become comfortable with the new system. We apologize for the inconvenience this causes and are trying to make the switch as painless as possible. We'll have dozens of sysops online answering your questions every day. We also will update the on-line help files frequently to highlight key differences between the current software, called Podium, and the new version. Below are some advance hints for everyone making the switch to Deja News. You can try these features out in now our Test Forum at http://f5.dejanews.com/frames/test.html ** Messages that you have not yet read appear in bold. ** That's how Deja News tells you which posts are new since you last visited. Once you open and read a message, the bolding goes away. You have the option to Mark Thread As Read, and an entire set of messages will lose their boldness. In addition, you can Mark All As Read, and every message in that forum will become un-bold. ** When you leave a forum and come back later, messages that you read previously are not displayed. ** You can see these already-read messages by clicking the Show All button. Here's the tricky part: If you read all the messages in a thread and then someone adds another, the entire thread will be displayed and most messages will not be bold. Just the new message that you have not yet read will appear with bolded text. (In our current message board software, messages that you had already read remain hidden when a new message is added.) ** On Tuesday, some messages that you have read will be marked as unread. ** We will migrate all the messages currently in Podium over to the new Deja News software. However, we cannot keep track of which messages every user has read. As a result, all messages will be marked initially as unread. You can easily take care of this by doing one of two things: 1) Use the Mark All As Read found at the top of the new message board. This approach is fastest, but it might make you overlook some messages you really do want to read. 2) Use the Mark Thread As Read text link found at the beginning of each thread. This approach is a more selective way to get up-to-date, but it takes a bit more time. ** You can Expand or Collapse the entire thread list. ** The thread list shows all the individual "conversations" happening in the message board. The default setting shows you just the starting topic in each thread. If you want to see a detailed list of all the replies to that initial message, just click the Expand button. To shrink your threads list again, click the Collapse button. Collapse and Expand are basically toggle buttons. Show All and Show Unread are also toggle buttons, and they oper- ated independently of the Collapse and Expand controls. ** Your browser's reload button works in the forums. ** In Podium, when you hit reload in your browser, your forum display settings would disappear. In the upcoming Deja News software, your settings are preserved. So go ahead and hit reload to see if new messages have been added while you are online -- it works! ** Give Search a try. ** The Deja News fast search capability will help you track down messages easily. You can look across all the forums or in just one, for any text in a message. If you choose Mark All As Read but want to locate an earlier message, use the Search function. Thanks for taking the time to read this note. I hope these tips give you some insight into the new software and make the switch smoother. We're adding user-suggested info to our help file with the launch of the new forums next week, so keep those comments and ideas coming! We look forward to seeing you in the new forums, and we are glad to have you as a part of the ZD Community. Wendy Frankwich ZD Community Central http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdnet.com http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdtv.com _______________________________________________________________________ To be removed from this list, simply reply to this message with "unsubscribe" as your subject. From sorens at workmail.com Sat Dec 5 05:28:46 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:28:46 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions] Message-ID: <36693EEC.7AA4A808@workmail.com> To: Igor Chudov Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions From: Soren Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:29:23 -0500 References: <199812042341.RAA18742 at manifold.algebra.com> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for > survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. > > For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, > you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other > clothes. This is a good one. What about the other half of American life (the uncivilized?). You know, the americans who live in those old refrigerator cartons? The ones that nobody sees? I think they get more than 2 weeks out of their shirts. The sad fact is that city brats haven't got the faintest idea what survival is all about (you mean I have to *walk* to the supermarket?). It was in the 1890's when Queen Victoria issued an edict that forced all the english to 'bathe at least once a year'. Sit back and enjoy the carnival. From rah at shipwright.com Sat Dec 5 05:29:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:29:28 +0800 Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #35 In-Reply-To: <199812050914.BAA23836@mail.zocalo.net> Message-ID: At 4:14 AM -0500 on 12/5/98, editor-bounce at netsurf.com wrote: > Secret Netsurfing... for a Fee > > You meet such nice people in this job. People like Cyber Promotions, who >believe the way to a great Web site is not content, originality, or >design, but an "aggressive marketing campaign every week" - it sells spam. >For a fee, Cyber Promotions will send out up to 50,000 messages at a time >through untraceable remailers and silent servers. This delightful >organization also bring us - as expected, for a fee - Ultimate Anonymity, >under the guise of the old-style anonymity sites which campaigned to the >death against censorship and government interference (remember Penet?). >Anyone with $14 can use this site to post anonymously in newsgroups, send >unlimited quantities of untraceable e-mail (with attachments), and >generally pollute the bandwidth. There may be genuine privacy campaigners >using the site, if they can squeeze in between all the amateur porn >merchants.... >http://www.ultimate-anonymity.com/ ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mah248 at nyu.edu Sat Dec 5 06:12:42 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michal Hohensee) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:12:42 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Michal Hohensee wrote: > > > > > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > > > Petro wrote: > > > > Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't > > > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the > > > > toilets. > > > > > > get them to shit outside. > > > > > > > Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea. This might be ok in the Russian > > countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing > > in just about any modern city. If running water fails to run in the > > cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside, > > it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and > > die. What with the high concentrations that people live in in most > > cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case > > of the flu. > > Like I said, someone would need to build a latrine. That's all that's > needed. > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task. In a city like NYC, latrines might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more places the latrines can be rotated to. Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the cities die. Michael Hohensee From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Sat Dec 5 06:49:55 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:49:55 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <0dea998db811e35a157aa07c3d640710@anonymous> "Phillip Hallam-Baker" writes John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings. Yes, and people democratically demand government enforcement of the majority will, something made more difficult if the subjects have strong cryptography. As Donn Parker observed several years ago, strong cryptography is inconsistent with democracy. (Published in Scientific American --- reference on request.) John Gilmore writes Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy, the USSA. And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the right choices. Let's keep trying. But don't educate them too much, or they will understand that cryptography can set people free, and if people were free there would be no political government, and if there were no political government their social security checks would stop coming, along with all their other government ``benefits''. From sorens at workmail.com Sat Dec 5 07:25:41 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:25:41 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <366958DF.FBF816FC@workmail.com> Michal Hohensee wrote: > > > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task. In a city like NYC, latrines > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more > places the latrines can be rotated to. One obvious advantage to living in the penthouse of a highrise. Of course, the elevators may not be working. The elevator shaft may make an effective latrine though. City people may be up to their eyeballs in sh*t. This requires the availability of raw materiel to produce however, which is predicated on gas pumps working to fuel transportation of foodstuffs into the hive. I suppose horses could make a come-back, but then we're back to piles of sh*t again. Current waste disposal conventions such as sewers and trash removal don't actually magically make this stuff disappear. In NYC it all ends up in the Atlantic latrine, where it gets picked up by the gulf stream and ends up being deposited on Florida beaches after a long sea journey. There are so many plastic bags bearing logos in the sargasso sea, it looks like it has been sold off to corporate interests for advertizing purposes. I went out fishing in this vicinity a few weeks ago and caught 3 sea birds (released alive) and only one fish. On thinking it over, it was obvious why we caught the birds -- there aren't any fish to catch, so the birds were hungry enough to go for a lure. Colloform counts in the mid-Atlantic approach that of an unwashed WC. Its no better on the other coast, in San Francisco there is an annual paragraph in the Chron, usually buried near the last page, about (yet) another *accidental* release of 12 million gallons of raw untreated sewage, into the bay. Funny how these accidents happen in december every year. We really are the society that believes in *out of sight, out of mind* solutions. There is an opportunity in this I suppose, corner the market on chemical toilets and reverse osmosis water makers in a big city next year, and you're laughing. Of course your exit strategy should take into account the possibility of being taken over in the *public good*. Hong Kong has a good system for dealing with the flush problem. When the sewer system was put in (Japanese occupied, WWII period), all buildings were double plumbed with fresh water for drinking, cooking and washing, and sea water for flushing. With the way most city water tastes now, maybe the existing plumbing could be turned over to non-potable water distribution for washing + flushing. Distribution of drinking water would be as it is in LA today. That's the fun part, figuring out how it could all be made to work. Unfortunately it's more likely that the sheeple will cry out for guvmint intervention to continue the flow of goodies, to which the western world has become addicted. IMHO, the military will be brought in to dig the latrines. Hoarders will be strung up for not redistributing their wealth in approved socialist style. Rewards will be posted for informing on a neighbor who is (may be) a hoarder (5% of the take?). Gas will be reclassified as a public resource for the duration of the emergency. The military will bring in the K rations, until it becomes obvious that relocating the citizen-units to resettlement camps on the outskirts is easier to manage. Those who control the sources of food production will also be drafted into this new(er) deal. Anyone left over from this redistribution, will be classified as a public enemy and fair game. This is the perfect opportunity for the state to offer more security in exchange for reduced liberty. Was it on this list that I saw the posting about the 300 trucks of army rations a day being stashed in some Oklahoma(?) caves? From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Dec 5 08:00:41 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:00:41 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Tim May wrote: > On another topic, what of the "free export of crypto" nations? Some > nations, or folks in some nations, like to talk about how they are actually > "more free" than Americans are because they can export strong crypto. > Canada comes to mind, as there are a couple of companies we know about > using the ostensibly weaker Canadian export controls. > > (I maintain, and Lucky can be my witness that I expressed this forcefully > to some Canadian entrepreneurs very recently, that Canada's relative > laxness on crypto arises first, from their ignorance of the issues and > second, from the fact that Washington hasn't yet told them how high to > jump. I have long believed the U.S. would issue the orders and other > countries would turn out to be just as restrictive, if not more > restrictive, as they have fewer in-country protections against restrictions > on strong crypto. If Canada, Finland, etc. tighten up, can Anguilla be far > behind?) I believe that there will be free havens for crypto for some time to come. Crypto is too obscure a topic to be outlawed worldwide anytime soon. So the Canadian entrepreneurs Tim is referring to and others determined to ship crypto will be able to do so for many, many years by simply relocating development to other countries. Just as there are small countries that don't play ball with FINCEN, there will be small countries that don't play ball with crypto regs and be that because that's the countries only significant source of hard cash. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From whgiii at openpgp.net Sat Dec 5 08:22:35 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:22:35 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu> Message-ID: <199812051511.KAA001.50@whgiii> In <36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 at 10:07 AM, Michal Hohensee said: >Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might >last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the >cities die. And you say this as if it is a bad thing. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Sat Dec 5 08:31:18 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:31:18 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199812051605.LAA01045@camel14.mindspring.com> The Hudson River on the west side of Manhattan reportedly has twelve feet of shit on its bottom, and a permit from the US Corp of Engineers is needed to disturb it for pier construction and repair -- and to extend the island for yet another criminal expansion for the public good: next up is another hotshit Guggenheim satellite museum by Frank Gehry to match his Balboa big holer. Many sewage lines of the West Side still dump raw sewage into the river while plans for new sewer systems languish for lack of funding -- the most recent plant on the Hudson cost in excess of $1 billion, has a park on top, is an architectural award winner, and still stinks like Madonna in church. Though less than the surrounding nabes from which the gagging aliens flee to the shit plant deck which is a 100 feet above the river and offers Titanic like panoramas, that is, far enough above the river that the night's floaters/skin-bros are overlookable. Tis true that rivers and oceans are prosperity's sewage treatment system, as ever, the best recycling system ever confected by nature to handle the effluvia of progress, for refreshing water, air and importing cheap-labor illegals (now how to stop them fucking for recreation, their brats siphoning our hard-stole American birthright to profit by the globe's suffering, hurray we got Ks of Terrorist Nukes). Still, environmental terrorism is booming. Cleanup of the National Security Apparatus will take decades and $ trillions. Health damage remediation will take many times that. Shit in streets is a puny task in comparison to those, not even worth planning for -- well, dog shit is a big headache in Guiliani's disorderly mind. Yes, NYC as with other large cities are dumps for the rest of the country. Yes, going to the country makes me gag -- pity the poor rubes, how can they bear the lack of civilized rot and stench. Oh well, it's TCM's evolution in action: only shit-innoculated mutants will inhale the sublime Y2K halitosis of the programmers of built-in breakdown, vainglorious national planners. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sat Dec 5 09:08:23 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:08:23 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu> Message-ID: <199812051640.KAA04447@manifold.algebra.com> Michal Hohensee wrote: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Michal Hohensee wrote: > > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Petro wrote: > > > > > Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't > > > > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the > > > > > toilets. > > > > > > > > get them to shit outside. > > > > > > > > > > Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea. This might be ok in the Russian > > > countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing > > > in just about any modern city. If running water fails to run in the > > > cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside, > > > it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and > > > die. What with the high concentrations that people live in in most > > > cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case > > > of the flu. > > > > Like I said, someone would need to build a latrine. That's all that's > > needed. > > > > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task. In a city like NYC, latrines > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more > places the latrines can be rotated to. Why, shit is actually pretty compact. usually with latrines, the liquid filtrates out, and the compressed shit does not take too much space. If you dig a deep enough hole (2-3 yards) it should last for a long, long time. I estimate that a human being produces about 1/2 to 1lb of hard waste per day, some are more full of it, some less. Let's settle on one lb per day. Let's see, a hole that is 5 yards wide, 3 yards deep, and, say, 2 yards wide, is about 30 cubic yards. It could take about 40 tons of hard compressed waste, that is, 80 thousand man-days of shitting can be compressed in it. You definitely need some heavy machinery to dig this kind of hole (and then you have to build smoe kind of frame over it to prevent people from falling into it if it collapses), but it is not hard and can even be done in a catastrophic scenario. That's a lot!!! Let's see,a high rise building with 50 floors and 10 apartments in each floor, that's about 1200 people. The latrine would last them what, about sixty days! And then they can dig another one. > Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might > last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, > we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the > cities die. Not in the short run. They could survive for a while. - Igor. From promo124 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 6 01:19:58 1998 From: promo124 at hotmail.com (promo124 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:19:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Frequent Asked Questions Re: $9.99 to build your own Message-ID: <199812060919.BAA06673@toad.com> (FAQ) Frequent Asked Questions --CABLE TV DESCRAMBLER (do not hit the reply button, this message is generated automatically for those interested in the product. You'll receive this message only once) Hello!!! =) "Thank you for requesting more information about the Cable Television Descrambler. I've been asked so many good questions that I left unanswered in my first letter. For that reason, I have put together this Question & Answer letter. I apologize in advance for not being able to answer each of your questions personally. The response has been overwhelming. " Q: Will the descrambler on Fiber, TCI, Jarrod and satellite systems? A: The answer is YES. In respect to satellite, you just get MORE stuff! Q: Do I need a converter box? A: This plan works with or without a converter box. Specific instructions are included in my plans for each! Q: Where can I find the 75pf-100pf variable capacitor, Radio Shack doesn�t have it? A: Many Radio Shacks do have it. However, you have two other options. 1st call a radio speciality supply store in your area that is listed in the yellow pages. 2nd you can order the capacitor from me. If needed I will mail you as many as you need for the price (s) below. I�m not trying to make a profit out of it, just want to help you. I�ll wrap it carefully and send it to you only if you send me a self addressed #10 size padded envelope, with 64c postage affixed. 1-10 75pf - 100pf variable capacitor $12.99 ea. 20-Up ���.����............... $ 10 ea. Q: Can the cable company detect that I have the box? A: No, the signal descrambles right at the box and does not move back through the line. Q: Do I have to alter my existing cable system, television or VCR? A: The answer is no. Q: Does this work with my remote control? A: The answer is no. It's a manual kind of thing... but very easy. Have your spouse or significant other get off the couch to do the deed! Q: Can you email me the plans? A: No, the plans come with an easy to follow picture guide. Q: Does this work everywhere across the country? A: I have friends in four states and one in England and Brasil that use the same parts and the same plans and they are all successful. Q: Is this deal guaranteed? A: Yes, if you are unhappy for any reason I will refund your money. Q: Is this a rip off or a scam? A: No, if it were I�d charge $50.00 or more for the plans. Be sure I not going to damn myself to hell by ripping you off for a measly $9.99 or so. Q: When I order, when will I get my stuff? A: I mail out all orders within 24 hours of receiving it... IF YOU SUPPLY A SELF ADDRESSED, STAMPED RETURN ENVELOPE WITH 55 CENTS POSTAGE AFFIXED. Q: Again, How much does it cost to get the instructions plans and the easy to follow diagrams? A:To order a set of the instructions send $9.99 by cash, check or money order payable to: RMS Enterprises Send to: 50 Lexington Ave, Suite 209 / New York City, NY 10010. Q: Can you give me a list of the parts again? A: Yes. 1 - Radio Shack mini box (part #270-235) 1 - � watt resistor 2.2K - 2.4K ohm (part #271-1325) 1- 75pf-100pf variable capacitor (special order) 2 - F61a chassis-type connectors (part #278-212) 12" no. 12 solid copper wire 12" RG59 coaxial cable Q: I lost your address, could you give it to me again. A: 50 Lexington Ave, Suite 209 / New York City, NY 10010 USA Q: How can I pay for this? A: Check, Money Order or Cash. Sorry, no credit cards accepted. I look forward to your order. Raul Mendez Enterprises (RMS Enterprises) Kindest Personal Regards, Raul Mendez From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 5 09:56:17 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:56:17 +0800 Subject: .. Message-ID: <199812051730.SAA20180@replay.com> > > (Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security > > concerns -- > > 1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised > > 2: clients really can be screwed > > 3: etc. > > > > To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the > > security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with > > something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of > > course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count. > > As long as you do not see the box and do not control its manufacture, > I see no reason why you should have ny more trust in it. Well, you shouldn't have complete trust -- a tamper-resistant net could be compromised, too -- but there's a good reason to have more trust in it than in the existing one. More on that after a parenthetical remark. (This brings up the "hardware web-of-trust" issue; you can set up such a web with trusted spot-checkers and statistical/cryptographic means of assuring the user that the box works as advertised, if your threat model demands it. There's more about it in the "Beyond Class (A1)" section of the Orange Book, although the section's use to Cypherpunk types is limited because it's written without any thought to, say, doing things cheaply or having a decentralized setup.) The tamper-resistance simply means that if the mailer was set up secure, it's not going to become compromised. Instead of having to trust that one of the remailer operators is currently honest and has always done all the necessary homework to ensure the system was safe, you have to trust that this entity was honest and diligent when the remailer was set up (unless, of course, you think the tamper-resistance was circumvented); if the operator is bribed after the remailer's set up and the public key is published, there's no way to suddenly and invisibly make messages traceable, as there is in a "normal" Mixmaster remailer. (This is because, given the normal assumptions about crypto strength, it takes the remailer's private key to process a Mixmaster-like packet and that key is generated by and stays within the tamper-resistant box) My predictions about the biggest attacks on a tamper-resistant remailer net: 1: traffic analysis. Until the net structure is overhauled, this will always be possible. 2: propagation and exploitation of faulty server software. Related to the whole web-of-trust issue. 3: direct attacks on specific clients. Again, no web of trust. 4: creation of bad remailers and attempts to shut down good ones. More messages could be traced in a world with 6 good and 47 bad remailers than in one with 9 good and 3 bad. 5: direct attacks on new remailers 6: attempts to make an operator feign a catastrophe and set up a new, compromised remailer. Users, however, would know that the new key not signed by an old one means that they must now trust that the remailer was not compromised before the publication of the new key. 7: attacks on tamper resistance ... n: attacks on crypto n+1: etc. From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Sat Dec 5 10:32:35 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 02:32:35 +0800 Subject: pgp disk Message-ID: >At 03:05 AM 12/5/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote about some new product: >>If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general >>rule. > > >Where is the source for pgpfone? Good question. That's why I wouldn't use it either. (I haven't had reason to use it, so 'll take Anonymous's word that source isn't available.) If people want to release software like this, they need a better argument for its security than "Trust us, it's secure." Considering that there is no net loss when developers of such a product release source code so that people can look it over and compile it themselves, I don't have any reason to trust such software. Aren't McAfee and PGP Inc. members of KRAP and promoting Big Brother Inside? I've lost track. From emc at wire.insync.net Sat Dec 5 10:33:17 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 02:33:17 +0800 Subject: Aharonov-Bohm Effect Message-ID: <199812051815.MAA28244@wire.insync.net> Could someone (other than Jim Choate) explain the mechanism behind the Aharonov-Bohm effect, where a quantum field propagating via two distinct paths finds its wavefunction phase shifted by the amount of magnetic flux enclosed, even if it is completely shielded from the magnetic field, and traverses only regions of space where B=0. This has apparently been experimentally verified, and is a leading candidate for reading the state of quantum dots. -- Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html From maxinux at openpgp.net Sat Dec 5 11:19:51 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:19:51 +0800 Subject: pgp disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5 Dec 1998, HyperReal-Anon wrote: >>>If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general >>>rule. I dont believe he is saying source is not available because it is. In book form, currently getting scanned in europe somehwere where the Wersaanar(i dont care i misspelt it) was not signed >>Where is the source for pgpfone? Try pgpi.com, i believe if anyone has it they would.. maybe mit > >Good question. That's why I wouldn't use it either. (I haven't had reason to >use it, so 'll take Anonymous's word that source isn't available.) See above, however, Scram disk has been around more, and it's source is available >If people want to release software like this, they need a better argument >for its security than "Trust us, it's secure." Agreed, thats why in PGP's case source is released. >Considering that there is no net loss when developers of such a product >release source code so that people can look it over and compile it >themselves, I don't have any reason to trust such software. Actually in theory there is, people can steal code, use progs without paying etcetera. (the latter is available through "juarez" though) >Aren't McAfee and PGP Inc. members of KRAP and promoting Big Brother Inside? >I've lost track. McAfee does not exist, neither does PGP Inc, in a merger of those two and Network General, they formed Network Associates. Later NetAss purchased TIS, for their firewall mind you, and they were members of KRAP . so NAI was officially brough in. Max -- Max Inux Hey Christy!!! New Keys per-request If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto From declan at well.com Sat Dec 5 11:49:28 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:49:28 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199812051926.LAA10339@smtp.well.com> At 11:01 AM 12-5-98 -0500, Soren wrote: >City people may be up to their eyeballs in sh*t. This requires the >availability of raw materiel to produce however, which is predicated on >gas pumps working to fuel transportation of foodstuffs into the hive. I >suppose horses could make a come-back, but then we're back to piles of [y2k latrine analysis snipped] I note for the record that this latest thread represents a serious and probably departure in tone from cypherpunkly nose-in-the-air dismissals of Y2K problems as recently as 6 or 7 months ago. -Declan From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 11:55:11 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:55:11 +0800 Subject: (fwd) Markus Kuhn on eternity Message-ID: <199812051932.TAA12539@server.eternity.org> Markus Kuhn (on ukcrypto) discussing his PhD project: the design of an eternity file system with a distributed administration function system controlled via a cryptographically enforced digital constitution. Comments to follow. Adam ====================================================================== To: ukcrypto at maillist.ox.ac.uk Subject: Re: intangible definitions are hard to pin down Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:28:21 +0000 From: Markus Kuhn Ben Laurie wrote on 1998-11-19 12:22 UTC: > Ross Anderson wrote: > > It will get worse. One of my students is developing a file system that > > can be spread over a WAN, so that for example you can force all file > > modifications in directory foo to be backed up automatially using a > > kind of RCS at a server in America. Useful stuff - real businesses are > > much more interested in backup and disaster recovery than they are in > > crypto (and spend a couple of orders of magnitude more money). But how > > does this sort of system interact with export control? > > Cool - is this going to be open source? Of course. > Presumably, even though, as you > say, businesses are less interested in crypto, it will, nevertheless, > use crypto for data protection and user authentication? Of course. The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server infrastructure, and which are not. This administration is so far the weak link in the Eternity Service concept, because whoever decides that something is not spam takes over some responsibility for the content, and is therefore subject to legal power of national powers. The distributed administration in my system will be controlled via a sort of cryptographically enforced digital constitution (written in a tiny special purpose functional programming language) that determines administrative rights in a freely configurable way for a distributed server architecture (allowing elections, votes, vetoes, impeachment, updates to the constitution, etc.). This way, no single person will be responsible for the maintenance of such international software repositories, but a (usually international) group of democratically controlled volunteers does this. This way, US people can easily contribute to the administration of such distributed archives without having to share any legal responsibility for the fact that the archive also contains export controlled software, because the majority of administrators and not some single citizen alone has decided which files are allowed to use server space. The goal of this project is of course not primarily to by-pass export controls. It will hopefully advance the state-of-the-art of how we use the Internet to distribute information to a point where classical export control laws and national control of Internet content in general are led completely ad absurdum, without enabling at the same time the wide distribution and robust long-term storage of commonly considered despicable material such as child pornography, instructions for building weapons of mass destruction, or unwanted commercial advertising. In fact, by providing easy to configure governmental mechanisms comparable to those national governments are based on for software repositories, we distribute the responsibility in a cryptographically enforced way over the thousands or millions of users of such archives, effectively bypassing any control of national governments, without the negative aspects of complete anarchy (spam). To avoid misunderstandings: the ultimate idea is not to just by-pass national laws, but to offer a productive and democratic alternative technical means for controlling online resources, because the classical options of either national legislation and complete anarchy both have serious problems. Markus (Ross' student, who tries to get a PhD for developing a theoretical foundation and practical implementation of global-scale jointly administrated file spaces) -- Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK Email: mkuhn at acm.org, WWW: From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 11:55:55 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:55:55 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol Message-ID: <199812051937.TAA12780@server.eternity.org> Wei Dei recently announced (on cypherpunks) his "b-money, a new protocol for monetary exchange and contract enforcement for pseudonyms". Below is the text of his proposal. Comments to follow. Adam ====================================================================== http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/bmoney.txt ====================================================================== I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations. Until now it's not clear, even theoretically, how such a community could operate. A community is defined by the cooperation of its participants, and efficient cooperation requires a medium of exchange (money) and a way to enforce contracts. Traditionally these services have been provided by the government or government sponsored institutions and only to legal entities. In this article I describe a protocol by which these services can be provided to and by untraceable entities. I will actually describe two protocols. The first one is impractical, because it makes heavy use of a synchronous and unjammable anonymous broadcast channel. However it will motivate the second, more practical protocol. In both cases I will assume the existence of an untraceable network, where senders and receivers are identified only by digital pseudonyms (i.e. public keys) and every messages is signed by its sender and encrypted to its receiver. In the first protocol, every participant maintains a (seperate) database of how much money belongs to each pseudonym. These accounts collectively define the ownership of money, and how these accounts are updated is the subject of this protocol. 1. The creation of money. Anyone can create money by broadcasting the solution to a previously unsolved computational problem. The only conditions are that it must be easy to determine how much computing effort it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no value, either practical or intellectual. The number of monetary units created is equal to the cost of the computing effort in terms of a standard basket of commodities. For example if a problem takes 100 hours to solve on the computer that solves it most economically, and it takes 3 standard baskets to purchase 100 hours of computing time on that computer on the open market, then upon the broadcast of the solution to that problem everyone credits the broadcaster's account by 3 units. 2. The transfer of money. If Alice (owner of pseudonym K_A) wishes to transfer X units of money to Bob (owner of pseudonym K_B), she broadcasts the message "I give X units of money to K_B" signed by K_A. Upon the broadcast of this message, everyone debits K_A's account by X units and credits K_B's account by X units, unless this would create a negative balance in K_A's account in which case the message is ignored. 3. The effecting of contracts. A valid contract must include a maximum reparation in case of default for each participant party to it. It should also include a party who will perform arbitration should there be a dispute. All parties to a contract including the arbitrator must broadcast their signatures of it before it becomes effective. Upon the broadcast of the contract and all signatures, every participant debits the account of each party by the amount of his maximum reparation and credits a special account identified by a secure hash of the contract by the sum the maximum reparations. The contract becomes effective if the debits succeed for every party without producing a negative balance, otherwise the contract is ignored and the accounts are rolled back. A sample contract might look like this: K_A agrees to send K_B the solution to problem P before 0:0:0 1/1/2000. K_B agrees to pay K_A 100 MU (monetary units) before 0:0:0 1/1/2000. K_C agrees to perform arbitration in case of dispute. K_A agrees to pay a maximum of 1000 MU in case of default. K_B agrees to pay a maximum of 200 MU in case of default. K_C agrees to pay a maximum of 500 MU in case of default. 4. The conclusion of contracts. If a contract concludes without dispute, each party broadcasts a signed message "The contract with SHA-1 hash H concludes without reparations." or possibly "The contract with SHA-1 hash H concludes with the following reparations: ..." Upon the broadcast of all signatures, every participant credits the account of each party by the amount of his maximum reparation, removes the contract account, then credits or debits the account of each party according to the reparation schedule if there is one. 5. The enforcement of contracts. If the parties to a contract cannot agree on an appropriate conclusion even with the help of the arbitrator, each party broadcasts a suggested reparation/fine schedule and any arguments or evidence in his favor. Each participant makes a determination as to the actual reparations and/or fines, and modifies his accounts accordingly. In the second protocol, the accounts of who has how much money are kept by a subset of the participants (called servers from now on) instead of everyone. These servers are linked by a Usenet-style broadcast channel. The format of transaction messages broadcasted on this channel remain the same as in the first protocol, but the affected participants of each transaction should verify that the message has been received and successfully processed by a randomly selected subset of the servers. Since the servers must be trusted to a degree, some mechanism is needed to keep them honest. Each server is required to deposit a certain amount of money in a special account to be used as potential fines or rewards for proof of misconduct. Also, each server must periodically publish and commit to its current money creation and money ownership databases. Each participant should verify that his own account balances are correct and that the sum of the account balances is not greater than the total amount of money created. This prevents the servers, even in total collusion, from permanently and costlessly expanding the money supply. New servers can also use the published databases to synchronize with existing servers. The protocol proposed in this article allows untraceable pseudonymous entities to cooperate with each other more efficiently, by providing them with a medium of exchange and a method of enforcing contracts. The protocol can probably be made more efficient and secure, but I hope this is a step toward making crypto-anarchy a practical as well as theoretical possibility. ====================================================================== From phirebearer at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 12:00:05 1998 From: phirebearer at hotmail.com (Vivek Vaidya) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:00:05 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <19981205193720.25762.qmail@hotmail.com> >John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have >this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of >democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings. Would you really call the EU protocols a democracy? rule by the unelected technocrats? And Europes history of not making decisions in secret closed meetings is hardly commendable. Excepting perhaps the swiss. >The interpretation of the US ambassador appears to be based on the >assumption that the governmental proceedures of democratic countries >are like those of his home country. In fact European governments >cannot make law simply by telling the national police force to >arrest folk who engage in particular behaviour. Now my understanding of european law is, of course, limited. But in France wasn't there that case of some rapper been arrested for insulting the police? And in Germany you can strip the constitutional rights of citizens who engage in treasonous behaviour ( could this include cryptography? if connected with neo-nazis almost certainly right? ) >The system of checks and balances may be described in the US >constitution but it is entrenched in the European polity. The UK >does not have a national police force precisely to stop Hooverism. > >Even directives of the European Commission do not have legal force >until the national parliaments enact legislation to implement the >directive. What about those airline accords where the EU took its member states to court over cabotage agreements. I'm sure there are ways to sneak these things through. >One should also remember that the government of the Netherlands has agreed >to control the sale and use of narcotics. If their efforts to control >cryptography are as dilligent we have nothing to worry about. > >In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is >one export zone for crypto control purposes. I fail to see that stopping >Brits from exporting crypto to the US changes the equation a great deal. > > >There once was an English king called Canute who attempted to demonstrate >to his courtiers that he was fallible and could not order the tide to >turn. Perhaps Clinton's courtiers need to learn that they suffer the same >limmitation. I'm afraid that that may not be the point. The primary objective of the arms control laws ( which are the ones being used as references in this case ) is to prevent advanced weapons technology from spreading to the third world. Now Europe, America, Japan, and other first world countries are all capable of developing high level crypto indiginously. The less advanced countries on the earth are forced to import it from these countries. What the passage of this law will do is prevent this export ( example: the Netherlands, as you pointed out has not cracked down on its internal narcotics trade. However it doesn't permit exporting narcotics. Similarly this agreement will probably freeze exports of high level crypto by all the signatory countries, in the same way that america no longer permits high level crypto exports. ) The end result being the NSA should able to read India and Chinas communications without irritations. Vivek Vaidya ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From whgiii at openpgp.net Sat Dec 5 12:17:10 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:17:10 +0800 Subject: pgp disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812051907.OAA001.57@whgiii> In , on 12/05/98 at 11:59 AM, Max Inux said: >>>Where is the source for pgpfone? >Try pgpi.com, i believe if anyone has it they would.. maybe mit AFAIK the source for PGPfone has never been released. I had wanted to do a port to the OS/2 platform but was never able to get the source code for it. Nautilas has source available but I do not know what platforms it has been ported to. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 5 12:37:12 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:37:12 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812052012.VAA32710@replay.com> Sorry for all the questions but I've been away from crypto for a while and I'm looking for the best encryption program for exchanging email between Unix and Windows folks. I hope these questions are appropriate here. What do people generally think about S/MIME ? Is it well designed (strong and extendable) ? Is it convenient because its available in the popular email clients ? Is the most annoying thing about it that you have to pay for the keys ? Is there a way to self-sign keys ? SSLeay ? Are most people still using PGP ? If IDEA and MD5 (and PGP2.6.2) are not strong enough anymore, what are the Unix folks using ? Does the source for PGP5/6 compile to any target besides Windoze ? Thanks From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Dec 5 12:57:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:57:53 +0800 Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd) Message-ID: <199812052047.OAA31186@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:26:51 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! > Markus Kuhn wrote: > > The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of > > such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people > > who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server > > infrastructure, and which are not. > > I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't > is hard, anonymous ecash. Allow the author, or server to charge for > storage, and charge for access. Allow readers to contribute ecash to > the continued existance of a data. Throw the lot together and let > profit maximisation sort the rest out. There is some window for abuse in this method. It allows a well endowed entity to bias the information available. There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of worth, over time versus the archival/historical worth of the data. Two major negatives to a free-market approach that are never discussed. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 13:00:21 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:00:21 +0800 Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! In-Reply-To: <199812051932.TAA12539@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199812052026.UAA12863@server.eternity.org> Markus Kuhn wrote: > The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of > such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people > who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server > infrastructure, and which are not. I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't is hard, anonymous ecash. Allow the author, or server to charge for storage, and charge for access. Allow readers to contribute ecash to the continued existance of a data. Throw the lot together and let profit maximisation sort the rest out. > This administration is so far the weak link in the Eternity Service > concept, because whoever decides that something is not spam takes > over some responsibility for the content, and is therefore subject > to legal power of national powers. Anonymous ecash leaves noone (identifiable) deciding anything, just people paying for encrypted secret split data to be stored and for encrypted data to be transmitted. > The distributed administration in my system will be controlled via a > sort of cryptographically enforced digital constitution (written in a > tiny special purpose functional programming language) that determines > administrative rights in a freely configurable way for a distributed > server architecture (allowing elections, votes, vetoes, impeachment, > updates to the constitution, etc.). Wew. Re-inventing democracy and all the problems that go with in the electronic world! Sounds like this will re-invent `the tyranny of the majority' syndrome. I would prefer to see this kind imposition of majority views considered a subscriber filtering service ontop of the document space. This is then a canonicalization of the comment that "if you don't like reading X, then don't read it!". And also eternity itself is an attempt to provide an efficient implemention, with cryptographic assurance, of John Gilmore's quote "The 'net views censorship as damage and routes around it". To give an example, subscriber group X, let us say hard line muslims (no images of females exposing any part of their body) choose to set up an approved "view" (in the database sense) of the documents the eternity distributed database then anyone who chooses can subscribe to this view, fund it, vote in it's constitution (or sit passively in it's dictatorship) as they see fit. Similarly anyone is free to set up their own, new filtering services, or to use no filtering service at all! Possibly this is the way you view the filtering service too, though if this is the case I would suggest use of language such as "filter out" in place of "delete", as delete suggests that someone or several someones under a democratic constitution (or any other expressible voting scheme) are able to prevent others from paying for the distribution of data of interest only to a minority. > This way, no single person will be responsible for the maintenance > of such international software repositories, but a (usually > international) group of democratically controlled volunteers does > this. This way, US people can easily contribute to the > administration of such distributed archives without having to share > any legal responsibility for the fact that the archive also contains > export controlled software, because the majority of administrators > and not some single citizen alone has decided which files are > allowed to use server space. I think a better solution to the problem of an identitifiable individual being viewed (by governments) as responsible for the existance of a document is anonymity. That way, the factions of the US government interested in controlling bit-flow don't know who submitted the document, nor who voted with hard ecash to keep it there. > without enabling at the same time the wide distribution and robust > long-term storage of commonly considered despicable material such as > child pornography, instructions for building weapons of mass > destruction, or unwanted commercial advertising. I don't think this is possible, or advisable even. Cash is a better metric of interest in data, trying to think in other terms just means someone else will make the money. John Gilmore's quote in monetary terms. The question is whether one believes in unconditional free speech or not. I suggest that those who believe in conditional free speech would be wrong if their belief led them to try to deprive others of unconditional free speech rather than setting up and subscribing along other like-minded types to filtering services. The muslims in the example above may view images of females showing their faces as extreme heresy, worthy of the death penalty. One has to accomodate differing views of what is acceptable. There is no world view on what is acceptable, therefore I propose that a better solution is to consider filtering. The existance of data does not hurt people. People who object to the availability of data are advocating the creation of `thought crime'. > In fact, by providing easy to configure governmental mechanisms > comparable to those national governments are based on for software > repositories, we distribute the responsibility in a > cryptographically enforced way over the thousands or millions of > users of such archives, effectively bypassing any control of > national governments, without the negative aspects of complete > anarchy (s**m). Filtering and rating services can provide an effective method of avoiding reading data one is uninterested in. If someone else is interested enough in the availability of data to pay ecash to ensure it's availability why would anyone else be interested to prevent this. In a straight-forward translation of the voting scheme to monetary voting, we might if we were not careful result in a system where others (censors) are able to cast negative monetary votes by paying servers not to distribute certain bit strings. I think an eternity system should view this as a cryptographic attack to be designed around. Design the system so that the server can not be bribed to not distribute certain data by dint of not being able to recognise it. Adam From BannerExplode at usa.net Sun Dec 6 05:07:24 1998 From: BannerExplode at usa.net (BannerExplode at usa.net) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:07:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Freebie, Freebie - How to get heavy traffic to your web site! Message-ID: <199812061317.FAA21334@baynet.com> *********************** Greetings freebie lovers, We all know that to make money with a web site you need lots of traffic! This takes mass advertising or top status on many search engines. 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We are sure you will be delighted with our "Banner Explode System!" ------------ PRINT ------- CUT ---------------- ******* NEATLY FILL IN THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION ******* Name: Address: City/St/Zip: Phone: Email address: Mail this order form with a self addressed, stamped, #10 business envelope to: Banner Explode System P.O. Box 66781 Phoenix, AZ 85082 ====== SATISFACTION GUARANTEED - It's FREE ====== From ryan at systemics.ai Sat Dec 5 13:12:07 1998 From: ryan at systemics.ai (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:12:07 +0800 Subject: eternity using politics rather than economics Message-ID: <19981205164842.B25348@arianrhod.@> When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do a workable eternity implementation. It's an open question whether you could issue bearer cash backed in Eternity-units. That was my original plan, but it seems you would still want to have gold-units to trade for Eternity units. The problems of guaranteeing quality of service in exchange for Eternity units are complicated but tractable, but having a separate scheme for auditing performance. Where I think "political" schemes would be particularly beneficial is in sharing administrative control over a virtual corporation, etc. While those who believe Coase would believe corporations will devolve into individuals or even autonomous agents, it might be a worthwhile tool during the transition. As far as I can tell, having a good Eternity implementation is still blocked on getting a reasonable electronic cash system. There are some people in Anguilla... From mgering at ecosystems.net Sat Dec 5 14:04:29 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 06:04:29 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B31A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > The end result being the NSA should able to read India and Chinas > communications without irritations. You think India won't be able to develop strong encryption indigenously?! You obviously haven't been keeping up with the times. One word...Bangalore. Despite the export rhetoric, the real and intended affect it to prevent widespread *domestic* use. By making the market much smaller (domestic) only, creating FUD, there are less crypto suppliers and much higher costs. Matt From fnorky at chisp.net Sat Dec 5 14:21:19 1998 From: fnorky at chisp.net (Douglas L. Peterson) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 06:21:19 +0800 Subject: pgp disk In-Reply-To: <199812051907.OAA001.57@whgiii> Message-ID: <3669B5A0.9242EDF7@chisp.net> William H. Geiger III wrote: > > In , on > 12/05/98 > at 11:59 AM, Max Inux said: > > >>>Where is the source for pgpfone? > > >Try pgpi.com, i believe if anyone has it they would.. maybe mit > > AFAIK the source for PGPfone has never been released. I had wanted to do a > port to the OS/2 platform but was never able to get the source code for > it. > > Nautilas has source available but I do not know what platforms it has been > ported to. Speak Freely can be found at these two sites: http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/unix/ http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/windows/ It is free, has source code, and will work with pgp 2.6x. -Doug www.TheServerFarm.net From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Dec 5 15:20:09 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:20:09 +0800 Subject: DoJ investigates CIA [CNN] Message-ID: <199812052311.RAA31637@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/05/cia.hughes.ap/ > JUSTICE INVESTIGATING CIA FOR POSSIBLE CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS > > CIA Graphic December 5, 1998 > Web posted at: 1:38 p.m. EST (1838 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Justice Department is conducting an > obstruction-of-justice investigation of CIA officials who passed along > to a satellite contractor sensitive information about a Senate > investigation into technology transfers to China. > > Government officials reached late Friday said the criminal > investigation centers on information passed by the intelligence agency > to Hughes Electronics Corp., maker of both commercial and spy > satellite systems. > > At issue is whether that information compromised a Senate Intelligence > Committee investigation into allegations that Hughes and other U.S. > companies violated federal export laws by sharing restricted > technology with China as part of commercial satellite export deals. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From weidai at eskimo.com Sat Dec 5 15:24:18 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:24:18 +0800 Subject: (eternity) eternity using politics rather than economics In-Reply-To: <19981205164842.B25348@arianrhod.@> Message-ID: <19981205150002.B18744@eskimo.com> On Sat, Dec 05, 1998 at 04:48:42PM -0400, Ryan Lackey wrote: > When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same > conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do > a workable eternity implementation. I'm not familiar with the latest eternity designs, but I wonder if they could be extended to provide a global time ordering between the published documents? If so perhaps the eternity service can be used to implement b-money (see http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/bmoney.txt) and the chicken and egg problem would be solved at once. From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Sat Dec 5 15:24:23 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:24:23 +0800 Subject: the shit hitting the fan (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812050515.XAA28089@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: It's during times like these that you learn more about your fellow c'punks than you need to ... On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100 > > From: Anonymous > > Subject: the shit hitting the fan > > > At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > > > > > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages > > >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. > > > > Moron. At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded > > gas, > > etc., no problem. > > > > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that > > after a week. > > It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the > average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks > worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a > platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable. > > I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the > storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps > move it around). > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Technology cannot make us other than what we are. > > James P. Hogan > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Dec 5 15:39:10 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:39:10 +0800 Subject: the shit hitting the fan (fwd) Message-ID: <199812052331.RAA31810@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:13:03 -0500 (EST) > From: Rabid Wombat > Subject: Re: the shit hitting the fan (fwd) > It's during times like these that you learn more about your fellow > c'punks than you need to ... > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Forwarded message: > > I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the > > storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps > > move it around). It's not my choice, it's the law (for many national and state parks). You've got to pach your pets if you take them along as well. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 16:00:51 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:00:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) eternity using politics rather than economics In-Reply-To: <19981205164842.B25348@arianrhod.@> Message-ID: <199812052327.XAA24671@server.eternity.org> Ryan Lackey writes: > When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same > conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do > a workable eternity implementation. Well there is always hashcash (http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/hashcash/) -- a highly distributed protocol, which should be easy to deploy, not requiring central servers, and also (importantly) not requiring any cooperation from banks or other parties. One could use a simulated profit maximisation function based on hashcash to allocate donated eternity space. However, one suspects that due to the lack of convertibility, and transferability of a unit of hashcash, people would start to use other value metrics. Perhaps political (servers cheating to help their pet political cause, as there is no actual real profit motivation to optimising for hashcash profit), or perhaps real cash leaking in, or secondary market in hashcash. The latter two would be a nice outcome :-) Perhaps this may be an application for Wei Dei's b-money protocol (more on b-money in another post). > It's an open question whether you could issue bearer cash backed in > Eternity-units. Nice that. Did you notice someone (I think on one of Bob Hettinga's lists) proposing the sale of a percentage of internet bandwidth as a net resource based unit. As a proposed way to perhaps get around hyper inflation, I think, though I am not sure entirely how this could work either. If I buy a particular unit of bandwidth I know it's value will fall fast. But the value of a _percentage_ of internet bandwidth will increase. However the people funding the bandwidth -- why would they want to consider me a 0.001% stakeholder in their bandwidth? One would need to buy shares in major bandwidth provision companies like say cable & wireless. Buy some shares in that to obtain a percentage of the ownership of the percentage of total net bandwidth that C&W owns? Doesn't help. Would a company selling bandwidth by the 1000th of a percentage of global bandwidth profit from this? It would have to use the money raised by selling bandwidth percentage at todays prices to fund increases in bandwidth in line with total bandwidth growth just to fulfill it's obligations. Add bearer share certificates for the 1000th percentage of global bandwidth and you have an appreciating bearer asset based on net resources. As long as such companies made enough money to continue to exist. Anyone have any plausible sounding business plans for such an endeavour? > That was my original plan, but it seems you would still want to have > gold-units to trade for Eternity units. The problems of > guaranteeing quality of service in exchange for Eternity units are > complicated but tractable, but having a separate scheme for auditing > performance. > Where I think "political" schemes would be particularly beneficial is > in sharing administrative control over a virtual corporation, etc. Political schemes such as those proposed by Markus are pretty nice for collaborative filtering. Just I would rather schemes be strongly voluntary, and not have any negative effect on the purchasability of eternity space by others. Adam From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 5 16:11:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:11:43 +0800 Subject: the shit hitting the fan (fwd) Message-ID: <199812052347.AAA20373@replay.com> >It's during times like these that you learn more about your fellow >c'punks than you need to ... You're correct. I had no clue that the Cypherpunks were such a shitty group. >On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > >> Forwarded message: >> >> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100 >> > From: Anonymous >> > Subject: the shit hitting the fan >> >> > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that >> > after a week. >> >> It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the >> average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks >> worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a >> platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable. >> >> I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the >> storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps >> move it around). FlushMonger From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sat Dec 5 16:35:07 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:35:07 +0800 Subject: explanation of public key cryptography Message-ID: <199812060014.SAA02652@manifold.algebra.com> My friend needs a website with explanations of PK cryptography and related interesting protocols. I have Schneier's book but she lives far from me and the book is too long for her to read. Any suggestions for something on the Web? thanks igor From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 16:45:31 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:45:31 +0800 Subject: (eternity) cost metrics In-Reply-To: <199812052047.OAA31186@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812060026.AAA28211@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > Adam Back wrote: > > I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't > > is hard, anonymous ecash. [...] > > There is some window for abuse in this method. It allows a well endowed > entity to bias the information available. The alternatives, such as say one vote per person have problems too. Perhaps one person cares greatly about the issue and spends the one vote posting pro-X information (for some issue X), and the other person hardly cares at all, but has some slight bias against issue X so spends one vote posting anti-X information. Now we have ignored this difference in scale. Cash allows you to measure the scale. Perhaps an in-between voting metric might be percentage of individuals wealth. But then this also is unfair because a pennyless dole sponger could dump 50% of his wealth on an issue on a whim, and the person who has mega bucks may have worked hard to have the money to help disseminate information about some issue Y he believes passionately in. So straight cash seems I think to be a good metric. Note also my earlier comment that I view an important eternity objective to be preventing negative votes on data availability. You can only disseminate more, say contradictory, information not remove information. You can attempt to disseminate more copies (make available with higher redundancy, and fund faster download) perhaps, but this does not drown out the other information. Filtering and rating services should ensure that just because there are a lot of copies of naff software my mega-corp M out there, it won't in anyway reduce your access to quality open source software, nor slow you down in finding it neatly cataloged by use by your quality open source software rating service. If you worry that mega-corp M will buy all available space at a premium, there is an easy solution: if mega-corporation M decides to flood eternity space with their inferior software, one can combat them by getting into the eternity servers business, taking their money and using the profits to disseminate quality open source software, or simply to profit from their gullibility. > There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of > worth, over time versus the archival/historical worth of the > data. As long as people are interested to keep the data around in low priority low access speed storage they will pay for this to happen. If they don't care -- well they don't care. People who do care can fund it, and evangelize to others on the merits of doing this. No one has any special right to force others to pay for keeping junk around for the sheer historical sake of completeness of it. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 16:48:42 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:48:42 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol In-Reply-To: <199812051937.TAA12780@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199812060008.AAA27126@server.eternity.org> Some discussion of the properties of Wei's b-money protocol. b-money seems to be book entry ecash system related to hashcash, where the "book" is open, and distributed. Anonymity is derived from the fact that the participants can be pseudonymous. hashcash would be a candidate function for Wei's decentralised minting idea: to create value you burn CPU time, just like with hashcash, but Wei's distributed open book entry system allows you to psuedonymously exchange value. Problems are (1) inflation, (2) borrowing resources, (3) linkability of transactions, (4) b-money has a big bulk discount, (5) getting money in and (6) out, (7) resource waste. (1) Inflation -- the cost of hardware to compute a given collision falls in line with Moores law. Perhaps one could get around this by defining a b-money unit to require more computational effort over time. Say define 1 b-money unit to be the computational effort of 1 months compute on the most efficient hardware that can be bought for $1000 at current prices and state of hardware. (2) Borrowing resources -- a student with access to a campus full of workstations can obtain quite a bit of free CPU time. (3) Linkability -- although the participants are anonymous, their transactions are linkable and so participants are pseudonymous in b-money (linkable anonymity being pseudonymity). This is inherent because of the need to broadcast transactions to ensure the open book entry is updated. (4) You can get money in -- by buying hardware -- but it will cost different people different amounts. If I am using an existing general purpose workstation my units will cost more than if I buy custom hardware. Not so bad a problem, just view this as an economy of scale, or a bulk discount. (5) Getting money in by buying hardware works, but people don't want the inconvenience of buying custom hardware, they would rather just buy b-money for force-monopoly backed money (national currencies). If we setup a mint which made it it's business to buy up-to-date custom hardware it would be difficult to buy b-money anonymously because the pseudonym would reveal his identity by the use of traceable payment systems (credit card, cheque, wire transfer, etc). (6) Getting money out is difficult also. The pseudonymous b-money user would find it difficult to obtain force-monopoly money without revealing his identity. (7) If such a system took off there seems to be an overhead equivalent to the value of b-money in circulation which over time has essentially been burnt off in disipated heat, and useless hardware. But probably the cost is still much lower than the enormous costs involved in maintaining a force monopoly to enforce traceable transactions. Some thoughts on ways to improve on some of these areas: To improve the problems of pseudonym identity leakage in (5) (paying for b-money) perhaps we could formulate a blinded cost function rather than my suggestion of hashcash. In this way one could easily purchase hashcash. One approach to achieving this would be to have an ordinary ecash mint using chaumian blinding but somehow be able to audit that the mint is producing hashcash tokens to match each ecash withdrawl. Then we would have an blind ecash mint backed in hashcash. The purchasing pseudonym unblinds the token and broadcasts it. Servers check that it has not been seen before, and increase the pseudonym's balance by it's value. Periodically the hashcash mint has to publish it's hashcash to prove that it is not cheating. It may be that you could find a blind cost function which achieves both blinding and some cost function at the same time, to skip the stage of the mint publishing associated hashcash. Adam From sinster at darkwater.com Sat Dec 5 17:30:32 1998 From: sinster at darkwater.com (sinster at darkwater.com) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:30:32 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> Message-ID: Sprach John Gilmore : > * And what did NSA offer, to convince many countries to > directly contradict policies that they had arrived at > during year-long public consultations with their own citizens? Call me hopelessly paranoid, but I'm betting that none or nearly none of the governments in the world want unrestricted crypto. Hell, I'm betting that none of the governments in the world are particularly happy that crypto expertise exists outside of secretive government research projects and intelligence agencies. If they could go back to the secret government-only crypto environment from before and during WWII, they'd be ecstatic. Public crypto expertise makes it hard for governments to keep secrets from each other and their people, it makes it (relatively) easy for the public to keep secrets from their government, and in general makes governments REALLY nervous. Sure, they talked with their people and the people were clear that _they_ wanted unrestricted crypto. And so the governments (those few who actually pay attention to their public) made statements and passed laws in support of unrestricted crypto... but their arms were being twisted the whole time, and they were Displeased(tm). If my statements have any bearing in reality, then it wouldn't take very much lobbying at all on the NSA's part to convince the wassenaar countries to change the agreement to restrict or totally ban crypto. This lets the various governments go back to their people and claim that they don't have any choice: wassenaar forces them to restrict crypto... sorry. The fact that most (almost certainly all) countries don't act on treaties until (and if) they have passed implementing legislation is completely lost on the people. After all, a treaty is a treaty, right? It's like a contract between two people, except it's between countries, right? So they've agreed: why do we need laws to implement it? [I know those last three statements are false, but they accurately represent the attitudes of all the people with whom I've discussed the issue of treaty implementation.] More and more, I see that treaties are no longer tools to create agreement among governments, but are tools to allow governments to sidestep the political costs associated with acting against their own people's express desires. For a very long time now, it has _appeared_ that European and North American governments agree with each other far more readily than they agree with their own people. -- Jon Paul Nollmann ne' Darren Senn sinster at balltech.net Unsolicited commercial email will be archived at $1/byte/day. Dis.Org's propensity for casual violence is little different from that of any street gang. Carolyn Meinel From billp at nmol.com Sat Dec 5 18:13:16 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:13:16 +0800 Subject: a strategy Message-ID: <3669E17D.14FF@nmol.com> I just read the most recent AFTER MONTHS of nothing happening. http://jya.com/a6e.htm Love it. Can you possibly get suspected terrorists on your landlord's case? From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 5 19:03:46 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:03:46 +0800 Subject: ... Message-ID: <199812060228.DAA03195@replay.com> > My friend needs a website with explanations of PK cryptography > and related interesting protocols. I have Schneier's book but she > lives far from me and the book is too long for her to read. > > Any suggestions for something on the Web? This does not fully explain the protocols, but an explanation of RSA is available at John Young's Cryptome. http://jya.com/whprsa.htm Download it, though, because it was one of the files relating to Bill Payne which will most likely be deleted when he gets his own web page up as promised. Diffie-Hellman and NSA's Key Exchange Algorithm need no URLs -- Diffie-Hellman was designed by Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman, and its publication sparked public-key cryptography (and received a standing ovation when presented). The Key Exchange Algorithm (KEA) is an NSA "type II" algorithm used in the Defense Messaging System. It was kept classified until recently. Schneier mentions in his CRYPTO-GRAM newsletter that problems with making tamper-resistant hardware carrying the algorithm may have led to its release. The devices are named A and B. Brackets represent a value's "owner." Diffie-Hellman: Both: Retrieve public values g and p. A: Chooses a random secret value x[A]. Calculates X[A]=g^x[A] mod p. Sends X[A] to B. B: Chooses a random secret value x[B]. Calculates X[B]=g^x[A] mod p. Sends X[B] to A. A: Raises value received from B to the x[A] power and uses this to calculate the key. B: Raises value received from A to the x[B] power and uses this to calculate the key. KEA: (this is a modified version of an old post to Cypherpunks) Constants: p: 1024-bit prime modulus q: 160-bit prime divisor of p-1 g: 1024-bit base Secret user-dependent values: x: 160-bit random key r: 160-bit random key Public user-dependent values: Y: g^x mod p R: g^r mod p z(x, y) represents KEA threshing. 1 A->B: Y[a] 2 B->A: Y[b] 3 A->B: R[a] 4 B->A: R[b] 5 A : (Y[b])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop; (R[b])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop; Are Y[b] and R[b] between 1 and p? If not, stop. 6 B : (Y[a])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop; (R[a])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop; Are Y[a] and R[a] between 1 and p? If not, stop. 7 A : t[ab]=(Y[b])^r[a] mod p; u[ab]=(R[b])^x[a] mod p 8 B : t[ab]=(R[a])^x[b] mod p; u[ab]=(Y[a])^r[b] mod p 9 A : (t[ab]+u[ab]) mod p = 0? If so, stop; if not, Key=z(t[ab],u[ab]) 10 B : (t[ab]+u[ab]) mod p = 0? If so, stop; if not, Key=z(t[ab],u[ab]) Zero-Knowledge Protocols: http://www.tcm.hut.fi/Opinnot/Tik-110.501/1995/zeroknowledge.html RSA Data Security's RSA Labs on protocols: http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/faq/html/7.html > > thanks > > igor From sorens at workmail.com Sat Dec 5 19:28:56 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:28:56 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions] Message-ID: <366A01D6.28EF77EE@workmail.com> William J. Hartwell dropped this in my mailbox ... To: Soren Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions From: "William J.Hartwell" Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 14:21:32 -0700 In-Reply-To: <366958DF.FBF816FC at workmail.com> References: <199812050047.SAA19462 at manifold.algebra.com><36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu> > >That's the fun part, figuring out how it could all be made to work. > >Unfortunately it's more likely that the sheeple will cry out for guvmint >intervention to continue the flow of goodies, to which the western world >has become addicted. > >IMHO, the military will be brought in to dig the latrines. Hoarders will >be strung up for not redistributing their wealth in approved socialist >style. Rewards will be posted for informing on a neighbor who is (may >be) a hoarder (5% of the take?). Related to this... have you folks seen this thread going around some of the y2k preparedness groups? "..... its illegal to store more than 30 days of food ?....." These folks are refering to some info on a web page related to executive orders. http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/INFO_Files/EOs.html This one I think needs some FUD busting...and no one does that better than you guys! -- William J. Hartwell (602)987-8436 Queencreek, Az. billh at ibag.com billh at interdem.com billh at hartwell.net From times at caxton.newsint.co.uk Sun Dec 6 11:57:43 1998 From: times at caxton.newsint.co.uk (times at caxton.newsint.co.uk) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:57:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812061957.TAA25102@caxton.newsint.co.uk> Dear Reader, We are happy to provide feedback about The Times/Sunday Times website, in the first of an occasional series of news briefs . . . Investment boosts access speed The site is determined to make continual improvements for its readers. Significant extra cash is being channelled into making it the fastest, easiest navigated and most innovative publishing site on the web. Recent months have brought enormous increases in traffic, and you may have noticed the odd download or access delay. We are concerned about this just as you are, so have increased our bandwidth significantly. We already have much better access speeds. But our investment doesn't stop there: we will soon add increased server capacity, so we can provide a range of exciting new features in the next few months. Thank you for your continued commitment to The Times & The Sunday Times site. We welcome all comments or suggestions to webmaster at the-times.co.uk The Times & The Sunday Times site launches "News First" The UK's first extensive consumer newspaper-based rolling news and preview service went live on November 26. The free service includes headline news tickers on the registration and home pages and bulletins on the 10 main breaking stories from 7am-10pm GMT, followed by previews of news and features from the following day's offline edition. News headlines are backed both by paragraph-sized bulletins and links to relevant stories on the day's newspaper site. Best wishes, Mike Murphy Managing Editor News International Internet Publishing (The Times and The Sunday Times online) From schear at lvcm.com Sat Dec 5 20:52:59 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:52:59 +0800 Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence In-Reply-To: <3668A32C.5954@lsil.com> Message-ID: >On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote: > >> >> > http://www.starium.com >> > 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES. >> >> The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I >> was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week - >> they're practically local. What's the approximate price? > >The company used to be called Comsec. http://www.comsec.com/ They've >expanded and are working on the next revision of the product. The old >version was $750 each. The new version will be a lot less expensive. When >you call, ask for Eric Blossom. (831) 333-9393 x12 While I was explaining the GSP8191's features to an engineer a few weeks back he ask whether anyone had thought of how to do secure conferencing via analog technology. I've never seen such a device. I wonder if such a thing is practical given the limitations of modem protocols. Certainly one could use a specialized digital device to join the clear analog channels, but then you have to all trust this device and that's not been compromised (anothre MITM). --Steve From rah at shipwright.com Sat Dec 5 21:01:12 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:01:12 +0800 Subject: Financial disclosure panic? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: kerry at phalse MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:16:35 -0500 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications From: Kerry Zero Subject: Financial disclosure panic? To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM I am the webmaster for kevinmitnick.com, the internet source of information on the legal and media injustices that have been committed against Kevin Mitnick (a computer hacker arrested in 1995 who has remained in prison, pre-trial, with no chance at bail for nearly 4 years now, despite the fact that the charges against him are relatively mild in comparison to some other convicted hackers). In a hearing Wednesday my name was brought up by the judge, Mariana Pfaelzer, because she had received notification that I had requested her financial disclosure reports, a request I had assumed logical, considering the large number of companies that are claimed as victims in Mitnick's case. I have been doing a lot of research on the Mitnick case during the past few months, and this was one part of that research, ordering what I thought were publicly available records, and which I understood were not meant for dissemination -- I never published them or disclosed them to the public (above all, I would never have published this information on the web, although that was not even the issue, as the judge had no idea who I was, and she was not even aware on Wednesday that I am also Kevin's site webmaster). Apparently the judge was not at all happy simply that someone on Mitnick's side of the fence had even researched this. I suppose she'd have been happier if it had been the prosecution, although obviously that wouldn't have helped me find the facts I needed to know :) I was told by different sources (present in the courtroom) that the judge reacted as though infuriated at my request, and she put the government on notice that "if anything happened" -- and left the sentence uncompleted. Now I am left wondering what the potential legal ramifications of this incident could possibly be. I did nothing illegal, although in the judge's eyes, apparently it was immoral or otherwise not right. I can't understand why -- my only guess is that she (Judge Pfaelzer) has so firmly bought the belief that Kevin Mitnick is an extremely dangerous hacker (though nothing he has done, and nothing in the charges, indicates this) that she simply fears any actions those of us innocently researching his case might take. The information I requested, as I understood it, was private, and not for publication, but it is openly available to the public by request; one does not have to be a lawyer to request it. I am not a lawyer; far from it; and I'm not a computer-cracker either -- I'm a female programmer in my 20s and I write online course software for a university. This seemingly (to me) bizarre incident has me blown away completely. The financial disclosure information is not even detailed enough as to allow one to estimate income or any other personal information about the judge, and so I'm having trouble understanding what any possible misuses of this information could be (and I don't really want to know, at this point! :) although obviously I never intended anything to come of the information in any way, unless it was directly relevant to the case. If there had been a conflict of interest with Judge Pfalezer, it would be very significant to Mitnick's case. At any rate, I'm uncertain as to what I should fear from the government -- if anything. If one of the corporations listed in the judge's statement happens to go bankrupt, will I be investigated? It seems ridiculous to me, but I have been warned that I may be investigated, and the government prosecutor now has a copy of the request I made, which apparently so infuriated the judge. To me, it seems that this court may believe everyone involved in Mitnick's "cause" is dangerous, although even Kevin himself has never been accused of committing harm to a person or to a computer -- he is basically accused of copying software. There have, however, been several particularly damaging false "facts" printed in the media about him, such as that he stole credit card numbers and that he broke into NORAD as a teenager -- neither of which ever appeared in any charges against Kevin, and both were proven to be untrue, but not before being printed on the front page of the NY Times, unfortunately. I suppose it's not my place to speculate, but I wonder how Kevin can possibly get a fair case with this type of paranoia against him and his supporters, if indeed it is paranoia... perhaps it is only my own ignorance of the law, and this happens all the time. I just wondered if any of you had any thoughts. I've been following this list for a while and have found it very educational. thanks, kerry at 2600.com --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mah248 at nyu.edu Sat Dec 5 21:35:17 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:35:17 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <366A2313.DF9FA151@nyu.edu> Soren wrote: > > Michal Hohensee wrote: > > > > > > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task. In a city like NYC, latrines > > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all > > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if > > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more > > places the latrines can be rotated to. > > One obvious advantage to living in the penthouse of a highrise. Of > course, the elevators may not be working. The elevator shaft may make an > effective latrine though. A temporary solution, at best. You still have to go down to the ground to shop, go to work, etc. Besides, even if you don't get infected directly from the offal on the ground, you can still be infected by other people. > Current waste disposal conventions such as sewers and trash removal > don't actually magically make this stuff disappear. In NYC it all ends > up in the Atlantic latrine, where it gets picked up by the gulf stream > and ends up being deposited on Florida beaches after a long sea journey. > There are so many plastic bags bearing logos in the sargasso sea, it > looks like it has been sold off to corporate interests for advertizing > purposes. Yah, but they are pretty good at siphoning the stuff out of the city, where people live, which is the point. *Where* it's siphoned to may not be the most intelligent place, but as long as it's not next to us, we don't get sick and die nearly as often. I'm not saying that existing sewer systems are perfect, but they *are* keeping us alive. Michael Hohensee From mah248 at nyu.edu Sat Dec 5 21:49:34 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:49:34 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812051511.KAA001.50@whgiii> Message-ID: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu> William H. Geiger III wrote: > > In <36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 > at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee said: > > >Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might > >last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, > >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the > >cities die. > > And you say this as if it is a bad thing. > Well it is, sorta. I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many many many other people. People who (like me) aren't particularly interested in dying of disease and/or starvation. If the "shit hits the fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/ Michael Hohensee From mah248 at nyu.edu Sat Dec 5 21:51:38 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:51:38 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812051640.KAA04447@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <366A2610.7F850BA3@nyu.edu> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Michael Hohensee wrote: > > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task. In a city like NYC, latrines > > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all > > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if > > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more > > places the latrines can be rotated to. > > Why, shit is actually pretty compact. usually with latrines, the liquid > filtrates out, and the compressed shit does not take too much space. > > If you dig a deep enough hole (2-3 yards) it should last for a long, > long time. I estimate that a human being produces about 1/2 to 1lb > of hard waste per day, some are more full of it, some less. Let's settle > on one lb per day. > > Let's see, a hole that is 5 yards wide, 3 yards deep, and, say, 2 yards > wide, is about 30 cubic yards. It could take about 40 tons of hard > compressed waste, that is, 80 thousand man-days of shitting can be > compressed in it. > > You definitely need some heavy machinery to dig this kind of hole > (and then you have to build smoe kind of frame over it to prevent people > from falling into it if it collapses), but it is not hard and can even > be done in a catastrophic scenario. > > That's a lot!!! Let's see,a high rise building with 50 floors and 10 > apartments in each floor, that's about 1200 people. The latrine would > last them what, about sixty days! And then they can dig another one. This assumes that we can compress it this much, which assumes that we have sufficient machinery. It further assumes that we will be able to ignore the "wet" component of human waste. You can't just pour it down the drains. Next, we should realize that these latrines are themselves not going to be particularly sanitary, and it would be most unwise to use them for any extended period of time. Hell, even *with* flush toilets, I've seen people squatting down in subway stations to take a leak not more than 5 feet from the restroom. Further, we should realize that for the above reason, people are not going to be particularly motivated to use these latrines. After all, nobody wants to hold it for a long time while they wait in line to take a leak, just for the privilege of relieving themselves in disease central. You're going to see shit in the street in any case. Finally, even if we dig these holes, (and they're *going* to be bigger than what you describe, as they must contain liquid, as well as solid waste), we're going to end up messing up the roads something fierce. Big cities *need* roads to transport life-critical items. If we dig them up, we're in even worse trouble. > > Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might > > last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, > > we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the > > cities die. > > Not in the short run. They could survive for a while. > > - Igor. In the *very* short run. Like, say, a few weeks. That is if the food doesn't stop coming in first --then things finish up a bit sooner. Michael Hohensee From wilfrido1 at aol.com Sun Dec 6 15:15:56 1998 From: wilfrido1 at aol.com (wilfrido1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: *** Holiday Cash *** Message-ID: <199812060100.BAA29765@fd1.fildirect.fr> Date: December 5, 1998 THIS IS IT FOLKS!! This is THE LETTER you've been READING about in the NEWS lately. 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Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT collected large sums of cash! Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY! ! ! (Please be sure to specify the country to which payment is to be made. For instance: U.S.A. if mailing from another country.) 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB can be very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue, which you could use for advertising, is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for as little as $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone to take care of it for you. BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY! 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will help guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! To grow fast be prompt and courteous. --------------------------------------------------------- AVAILABLE REPORTS *Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME* Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST DELIVERY - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address. _____________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: P. Green General Delivery Port Tobacco, MD 20677 U.S.A. _____________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Inter-Line Systems PO Box 175 Milford, NJ 08848 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Galactic Whispers PO Box 291 Pittstown, NJ 08867 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: DEM 3 Tallyho Lane Bow, NH 03304 ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------ HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ ------------------------------------------------------ Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level - - your 10 members with $5 .. . . . . .$50 2nd level - - 10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$500 3rd level - - 10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$5,000 4th level - - 10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $50,000 THIS TOTALS - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the prople who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Lots of people get 100s of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE! ! ! REPORT #3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade! About 50,000 new people get online every month ****TIPS FOR SUCCESS**** * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! BE PROMPT, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code also Code of Federal Regs. vol.. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exhanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ***********YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE************* Follow these guildelines to help assure your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 50 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 50 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash can continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Note To U.S. Paticipants: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington, DC. ****** T E S T I M O N I A L S ******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, Ms. The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 19 weeks, with money still coming in. Phillip A. Brown, Esq. I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program . . . 11 months passed then it came . . . I didn't delete this one! . . . I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! D. Wilburn, Muncie, In. This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spendiong! Charles Fairchild, Spokance, Wa. I am nearing the $90,000 mark from this program. I have used several forms of advertisement. I used regular mail and bulk e-mail. The regular mail that I used was very expensive for two reasons. I purchased a very select list of names and the postage. The third time I sent e-mails out, I did so in the quantity of 1 million. So, after 3 times participating in this program I am almost at the $90,000 mark. That isn't too bad. I hope the same success for you. Raymond McCormick, New Canna, Ct. ------------------------------------------------------ You have great potential for extra earnings that is available at your fingertips! You have unlimited access to wealth, but you must be willing to take that first step! The Media ALREADY PROVED That ! ! ! You could be making an obscene amount of money! I have given you the information, materials, and opportunity to become financially better off. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! - THINK ABOUT IT - Your risk is only $20.? HOW MUCH DO YOU SPEND ON LOTTO TICKETS - for NO RETURN? ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! ! ! :) From tomw at netscape.com Sat Dec 5 23:42:03 1998 From: tomw at netscape.com (Tom Weinstein) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:42:03 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> Message-ID: <366A2F3B.9A20B93A@netscape.com> John Gilmore wrote: > PS: I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that > this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto > publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers. > A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron? > What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is. I agree. This is something that I found particularly offensive. "Really, we're doing it for your own good!" Feh. -- What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein for the novice. You must understand Tao before | tomw at netscape.com transcending structure. -- The Tao of Programming | From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 6 00:21:34 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:21:34 +0800 Subject: PGP Disk Message-ID: <199812060804.JAA30605@replay.com> > Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk? > It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of > encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm. Is anyone aware of > any security flaws with it? Make sure you get the latest version. The version released in May or June had a bug in it (bug was only in the Windows version, the Mac is OK). The new version re-encrypts old PGP disks to fix the problem. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Dec 6 01:42:14 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:42:14 +0800 Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812052047.OAA31186@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981206010738.0098bc90@idiom.com> At 02:47 PM 12/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote, not in this order: > Two major negatives to a free-market approach that are never discussed. >There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of worth, >over time versus the archival/historical worth of the data. Huh? We talk about this all the time. How much does data storage cost, and how long is the information useful to readers and writers, and how do these change over time? Those are some of the main factors that drive the potential pricing structures -- if you get them wrong you either bleed money (so nobody wants to offer the service) or overcharge (so almost nobody wants to buy it), but if you get them right you might Make Big Bucks, if you're good and there's really a market for this sort of thing. >There is some window for abuse in this method. >It allows a well endowed entity to bias the information available. Not in any way that matters, and this _is_ a critical free-market point. Yes, rich folks can pay for eternity services that carry all the information they care about, just as they can pay for web pages they want, because they've got money to burn and can overpay for it, while you politically correct poorer folks can pay for the information you want, but only if it's economically viable, just as with the web. Get used to it. Information storage isn't an economic good like land, where they ain't making any more of that stuff, so if rich people can outbid you for the fixed supply you lose - it's a good that increases in supply as money gets thrown at people who generate it, and having rich people making the cover traffic grow is a Good Thing. (In reality, of course, the early market will be biased toward porn, warez, and pirated music, just like the rest of the net :-) As has been discussed on this list before, there are two main components to the cost - the cost of storage and the cost of retrieval. Storage keeps getting radically cheaper and larger every year, and you could provide storage forever for about twice the cost of one year's storage, assuming minimal inflation and continual technology improvement. On the other hand, the cost of retrieval depends on how often the document is accessed, as well as for how long - you could probably provide a fixed N accesses per year forever for a low fixed price, because bandwidth will keep getting cheaper, but to accommodate any volume of retrievals, you need to charge per access, either as digicash or perhaps substitutes such as banner ads if they bring in enough revenue (Geocities apparently thinks they do.) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From apf2 at apf2.com Sun Dec 6 03:51:06 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:51:06 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981205220239.006a17c8@209.204.247.83> Tim must be having a "bad hair" day. He actually mentioned sending people to Labor Camps. That sounds so UN-Libertarian, I have to chuckle. I'm chuckling because I wouldn't want to think you actually believe in this very Hitleresque rant. Or is some FED spoofing Tim and sending "threatening" material in his name? In which case...lock and load, Tim. They're coming to get you! APF >and, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance >libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as: > >"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed >laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your >military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can >forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback >time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians, >cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time. >Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen, >with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps. >Payback time." > > >--Tim May > From jya at pipeline.com Sun Dec 6 04:28:35 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:28:35 +0800 Subject: Commerce Hacked? Message-ID: <199812061208.HAA29686@camel7.mindspring.com> Since some time after the Department of Commerce issued the recent press release on Wassenaar the site (www.doc.gov) has not been accessible, at least not from here. The press release section of the International Trade Administration (www.ita.doc.gov), David Aaron's org, for a while had a notice that updating was being done and the site would be fixed shortly. Then the ITA site disappeared, along with the main DoC site. We spoke with a public affairs rep at DoC before this happened and to inquire when the department would issue detailed information to flesh out the press release. I said there was a furor over Aaron's spin, and much skepticism of its validity. She said she would check and call back but hasn't. Wonder if the site was hacked, from the outside or inside. From griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Sun Dec 6 06:31:05 1998 From: griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il (Tim Griffiths) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:31:05 +0800 Subject: Aharonov-Bohm Effect In-Reply-To: <199812051815.MAA28244@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <366A8C61.2B14E950@wis.weizmann.ac.il> Eric Cordian wrote: > > Could someone (other than Jim Choate) explain the mechanism behind the > Aharonov-Bohm effect, where a quantum field propagating via two > distinct paths finds its wavefunction phase shifted by the amount of magnetic > flux enclosed, even if it is completely shielded from the magnetic field, > and traverses only regions of space where B=0. What do you actually want explaining? Although the magnetic field is zero along the paths traveled (so that electrons never feel the magnetic field and the Lorentz force that affects a moving charge in one), the vector potential field is not, and is different for the two paths. This causes the AB-effect. See, for example G.Baym, 'Lectures on Quantum Mechanics' (Benjamin, NY, 1969) page 77-79. > This has apparently been experimentally verified, Yup, one of the best being N.Osakabe et al, Physics Review A, v34, page 815, (1986). > and is a leading candidate for reading the state of quantum dots. I think you have that the wrong way round - the state of Q. dots is easy to measure, and so if you put a QD in one arm of an Aharonov-Bohm interferometer, then measuring the state of the dot allows you know which path an electron took. If you know that, the wavefunction of the electron collapses to include just one path, so there is no interference. Eyal Buks et al demonstrated this last year - as they increased the sensitivity of the probe to measure the occupancy of the quantum dot, the Aharonov-Bohm oscillations in what was classical a separate system died away. If you want more details, I'll be happy to explain more. Maybe we should take it off-list, though, as I seem to have accidently included references and an informed opinion in my reply, rather than a bigoted rant. As for relevance, it is left as an exercise for the reader to work out why it might be useful to in principle measure fluctuations in a magnetic field which is heavily screened, and it's application to cryptography and privacy. Tim -- Tim Griffiths griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 Rehovot 76100 Israel 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men, and I tell you they are shallow movements in space tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF From rah at shipwright.com Sun Dec 6 07:17:31 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:17:31 +0800 Subject: e$: Cryptography -- The Steel Rails of Digital Commerce Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Lots of sensible people on cypherpunks have made an excellent point before, but Nelson Minar has said it quite succinctly in the message below, with an outstanding example from Sun, in the post that I'm including here from Perry Metzger's cryptography list. The point it this: There is only one, and completely acceptable, solution to this whole crypto-exportabilty mess: don't export anything. That is, make *only* strong crypto, make it inside your country, and let crypto folks in other countries take care of themselves. The permiability of national borders to the internet will get your actual cryptography overseas if it's novel and useful, and, if you use crypto plugged into your software, like Sun does with Java, then you'll sell more of that software because it *requires* strong cryptography, other people's or not. Geodesic, recursive software auctions with digital bearer-settled cash will eventually make all of this, including intellectual property issues, moot someday :-), but, in the meantime, simply obeying the laws on crypto export will work marvellously. Even in a post- "Adult Action" world, where all laws are enforceable everywhere, obeying them all, will, paradoxically, work just fine, as we'll see in a bit. Of course, all this makes the crypto *import*/arbitrage market, where C2NET made their first million, a mostly diminishing one, whether Wassenaar works or not. Certainly it's not a large enough market to renounce your citizenship for, as one member of their firm has done. This whole export-control tactic will eventually fail, and when crypto is unregulated, either by the market or by law itself, some crypto-fugitives will still be locked out of the largest economies in the world, especially if, however temporary the tactic and doomed to failure it is, nation-states actually criminalize crypto-arbitrage itself. Again, it's not laws, it's technology, which is the solution to this silly, and fairly theocratic, dispute about criminalizing the export of cryptography. Remember the e$yllogism: Strong cryptography is essential to digital commerce. In fact, strong financial cryptography is utterly necessary *and* sufficient for digital commerce. Thus, no strong cryptography, no digital commerce. Since all commerce will have a digital, and thus cryptographic, component soon enough, cryptographic regulation is, like Carl Ellison's analogy of church doctrine forbidding peasants from shooting nobility, fairly useless. Especially since nation-states can't help but allow the use of strong cryptography to facilitate commerce, in the same way that they can't help but allow the use of steel in their railroads. So, I say unto all ye crypto-peasants out there, obey the Doctrine of Crypto-Prohibition, on pain of the loss of your immortal soul. That is, make and use the strongest cryptography that your microprocessors can handle, and, like the peasant who, in confession, admits the shooting of a knight, obey dogma and don't export cryptography: it will "export" itself, like all good ideas do. Cryptography, like the technology of gunpowder -- or better, steel -- is not optional. Cheers, Robert Hettinga - --- begin forwarded text MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:47:25 -0500 (EST) From: nelson at media.mit.edu (Nelson Minar) To: Raph Levien Cc: cryptography at c2.net Subject: Re: Wassenaar vs. CipherSaber Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net >I'm spending more and more of my time these days in the free software >community (not all that big a leap for a cypherpunk). I'm seeing the >"crypto integration" problem all over the place. This is an issue of serious concern; it's really holding up the adoption of encryption, particularly at the TCP/IP level. An interesting model for how to get around the US regulations is what Sun is doing with Java. Java 1.2 ships with pretty much everything you need for strong, composable cryptography - big numbers, a key management framework, digital signatures. But they're following the letter of the US export regulations. Sun has defined the Java Cryptographic Extensions, a decent API for doing encryption. Bcause they are a US company they only ship a JCE implementation to people in the US. But they've made it about as easy as possible for folks outside the US to implement their own drop-in replacements. One interesting choice they've made is that, as near as I can tell, they aren't even bothering to ship a 40/56 bit crippled version. If you want crypto at all, you have to use Sun's JCE or get a non-US alternative. So you can only get real crypto, not some useless junk. I think that's probably the right idea - don't cave in to the US regulations, just follow them the minimum you have to and make sure it's easy for people outside the US to reimplement the parts you are not allowed to ship. I guess we have to wait and see how much Wassenaar complicates things. nelson at media.mit.edu . . . . . . . . http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/ - --- end forwarded text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNmqVrcUCGwxmWcHhAQE0zwgAqVUrB7Vu1NVqNHaGHeRTHUB9Z2li7x/m 5eMYUdKu8I3696LCC9CApwHi2vGW39jh0/dUR26+utNQ6MaJEyCrpjA7WpSvaqBQ XGrEPjEN58KQAlGydmjpxxL4ukX606dTKndiTPz5ujRGo1EtshRkB+2NmnUZOYZN +ECDrOylPFkDLDMqLGwqzY9zU79xZMvyIVQvpT2onUzfx3LgyjjC2/ZQbvJmOSsD vk14KbsyL6UEwyaH8FqUZWG/qGgQSALJsLpregApq0QHWl15+rEd+TvqWnyPvDKL cIIz3Cyo0QlwYFQWhg6JiPWRB+GQxaDaMS7QQqZeBqUSJclnVdJH+w== =gpAa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From urbr4kan at rto.dec.com Sun Dec 6 23:34:32 1998 From: urbr4kan at rto.dec.com (urbr4kan at rto.dec.com) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:34:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: info requested Message-ID: <199812070734.IAA26004@ns.de.ibm.net> UNIVERSITY DEGREE PROGRAMS Increase your personal prestige and money earning power through an advanced university degree. Eminent, non-accredited universities will award you a degree for only $200. Degree granted based on your present knowledge and experience. No further effort necessary on your part. Just a short phone call is all that is required for a BA, MA, MBA, or PhD diploma in the field of your choice. For details, call 602-230-4252 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Dec 6 08:13:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:13:53 +0800 Subject: China executes pager smugglers [CNN] Message-ID: <199812061557.JAA01136@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9812/06/china.execution.ap/ > CHINA EXECUTES TWO FOR SMUGGLING COMPUTERS, PAGERS > > December 6, 1998 > Web posted at: 6:17 a.m. EDT (0617 GMT) > > BEIJING, China (AP) -- In the midst of a sweeping crackdown on illegal > imports, China said Sunday that it has executed a computer executive > and an office worker for smuggling computers, pagers and other > electronic goods into the country. > > The deaths come as China carries out a campaign to enforce trade > barriers that shield its industries from foreign competition in an > attempt to quash a multibillion-dollar market for illegally imported > products. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Dec 6 08:16:38 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:16:38 +0800 Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd) Message-ID: <199812061551.JAA01051@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 01:07:38 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd) > At 02:47 PM 12/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote, not in this order: > > Two major negatives to a free-market approach that are never discussed. > > >There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of worth, > >over time versus the archival/historical worth of the data. > > Huh? We talk about this all the time. How much does data storage cost, > and how long is the information useful to readers and writers, And you drop it at that point. No, you do not adequately discuss the ramification of the economic nor of the social and historic motives to drive the long-term archiving of all data in the network. The current Eternity model is brittle in several ways. The problem is the current economic model that all its supporters are wedded to. If that model changes and takes on the range of responsibilities (some of them outside a simple profit/cost approach) that such a service should carry it would work. I made reference to a couple of these in my responce to Adam so I won't reitterate them here. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Dec 6 08:17:15 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:17:15 +0800 Subject: (eternity) cost metrics (fwd) Message-ID: <199812061547.JAA00980@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:26:19 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: (eternity) cost metrics > Jim Choate writes: > > Adam Back wrote: > > > I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't > > > is hard, anonymous ecash. [...] > > > > There is some window for abuse in this method. It allows a well endowed > > entity to bias the information available. > > The alternatives, such as say one vote per person have problems too. I'll agree that any system that relies on charging the originator of the information, versus the user of the information, is flawed in this way. Does your local grocery store charge the truck that delivers its tomato's? Does a book publisher ask that the potential author pay for the book run and advertising? Does the newspaper charge their reporters to put their articles in the paper? > Cash allows you to measure the scale. No, it allows a mechanism in the short-term for the Eternity market to be manipulated by parties with a political interest and large buckets of cash. > So straight cash seems I think to be a good metric. The point of the cash is to provide a motivation to keep Eternity up, NOT a measure of the worth of any specfic piece of information from the perspective of the server operator, it's the users of that data that define it's worth. That worth can and probably will have many facets that can't be reflected in simple dollars and by definition outside the keen of the Eternity networks current worth estimation model. In the majority of cases the Eternity operator won't have a clue as to the actual market worth of some data. There is also the issue of information worth collapse once the data is available off the Eternity network that hasn't been touched. This works to the negative of the Eternity networks long-term goal. For example, let's say a whistle-blower comes in with some juicy info. The Eternity server network, through some mechanism that I've never seen sufficiently described, determine that the originator must pay some amount of money to post it. The data gets posted and users grab it over the next few days. Then once it's available in the alternate channels (eg printed on a webpage of a newspaper) the future market potential for the Eternity servers goes through the floor. This motivates the Eternity network to over-value the worth of data which further keeps folks out. > Note also my earlier comment that I view an important eternity > objective to be preventing negative votes on data availability. You > can only disseminate more, say contradictory, information not remove > information. Well, considering that Eternity doesn't do anything regarding archiving and long-term storage there really isn't a worry here. All that's required is to keep the price up until the window of relevance is gone. Then back out, the price drops back to it's original cost but now that it's relevance is gone it slowly (or not) fades away. Depending on the particular nature of the > You can attempt to disseminate more copies (make > available with higher redundancy, and fund faster download) perhaps, > but this does not drown out the other information. Actualy this is a complete change of track and irrelevant. The POINT is that if there is a piece of information that I want to keep out of the hands of others I simply go to server after server and ask for a copy. This activity raises the price. Since I've got lots of cash and I want that document to be expensive I continue to buy copies further inflating the price. > If you worry that mega-corp M will buy all available space at a > premium, there is an easy solution: Straw man, if the Eternity servers have a clue as M Corp. buys more space the server operators buy more drives to sell since their now in the data space business and not the information brokering business. Hence M Corp. has distracted the Eternity services from their primary operations. So a workable strategy for M Corp. would be to inflate the price on the data they want to hide as well as continue to dump monies into the Eternity network buying space. Then at some point they abruptly stop their support and the Eternity services collapse because they've now grown to such an extent they can't survive without this artificial market manipulation. So the Eternity servers go down, further obfuscating the original information that M Corp wanted to hide. The Eternity model also completely ignores the consequences of such a manipulation in regards the re-building of a new service after the collapse. The amount of trust that potential users have will be low further increasing the difficulty of keeping the servers operating long-term. Because the Eternity network relies only on the immediate short-term worth of data it is brittle. > > There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of > > worth, over time versus the archival/historical worth of the > > data. > > As long as people are interested to keep the data around in low > priority low access speed storage they will pay for this to happen. > > If they don't care -- well they don't care. People who do care can > fund it, and evangelize to others on the merits of doing this. No one > has any special right to force others to pay for keeping junk around > for the sheer historical sake of completeness of it. So, a primary ideal of the Eternity service is that as long as the data has a worth below some level they'll drop it. This is one of the reasons that a long-term service like this won't work. It isn't reliable because I can't come back 50 or a 100 years from now to get a piece of data unless there is sufficient interest by other parties to access it as well. This is short-sighted and limits the use of Eternity. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sales at webhosting.dddcom.com Sun Dec 6 09:20:42 1998 From: sales at webhosting.dddcom.com (Diana) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:20:42 +0800 Subject: Business Web Hosting @ $12.95 + E-Commerce With Free Web Hosting Advertisement Message-ID: <419.436134.87339352sales@webhosting.dddcom.com> Our research indicates that you might be interested in our offer. Please pardon us if we are in error and hit reply with "remove" in subject line. Thank you for your time. OFFER 1 You can now have your own 50MB web site (www.yourname,com) for just $12.95 per month ! Our limited time offer includes Free setup + 50MB space + Unlimited email accounts + Unlimted hits + 100% FrontPage98 compatibility + Unix/N T Server/Netscape + Many other features !! 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For info email to sales at webhosting.dddcom.com Visit our site at www.webhosting.dddcom.com Web Hosting & Merchant Accts 240 Union Ave Campbell CA 95008 408-378-9996 From emc at wire.insync.net Sun Dec 6 09:35:41 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:35:41 +0800 Subject: Aharonov-Bohm Effect In-Reply-To: <366A8C61.2B14E950@wis.weizmann.ac.il> Message-ID: <199812061706.LAA29544@wire.insync.net> Tim Griffiths writes: > What do you actually want explaining? Although the magnetic field is > zero along the paths traveled (so that electrons never feel the > magnetic field and the Lorentz force that affects a moving charge in > one), the vector potential field is not, and is different for the two > paths. This causes the AB-effect. See, for example G.Baym, 'Lectures > on Quantum Mechanics' (Benjamin, NY, 1969) page 77-79. Why do I find this odd? Because the electromagnetic field acts locally, the vector potential is not directly observable and depends on ones choice of gauge, and wavefunction phase is also not directly observable. The integral of the vector potential around the closed path is of course well-defined, but this is global, not local. So it seems strange, and hints at some sort of "action at a distance" thing occuring. The wavefunction is being perturbed according to the magnetic flux enclosed by a path, even while propagating in a region distant to the flux which contains no electromagnetic field at all. > As for relevance, it is left as an exercise for the reader to work out > why it might be useful to in principle measure fluctuations in a > magnetic field which is heavily screened, and it's application to > cryptography and privacy. It still seems counterintuitive to suggest that I can make a tour around a magnetic field an arbitrary distance away, and get a precise reading of its strength. Would it work a mile away? A light year away? Does this result follow from QED? Some equations might be helpful. -- Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 6 12:09:37 1998 From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:09:37 +0800 Subject: Key changes at notatla Message-ID: <199812061934.TAA02414@notatla.demon.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 New mix keys at notatla already in use. Old ones expire 21Dec1998. mccain mccain at notatla.demon.co.uk 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 2.0.4b41 MC - -----Begin Mix Key----- 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 258 AASe8KR46cRA75Jk4YMcE32gpS1uqAveFpRxPVg7 qATY4aPIyVM40QHa/OrHdVc8twmKMNemcdZNCpdb EDCtaVXLalJ7njbiLs8NMAEVP7WxMQP+1swjvHpR qP1ikuvy89iNpTbDtl9uf11PNeXiWclrCyFkvS6m 4cXFPskXoa4xWQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB - -----End Mix Key----- teatwo teatwo at notatla.demon.co.uk 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 2.0.4b41 MC - -----Begin Mix Key----- 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 258 AATVHyCqv2SGgaEbY0HVnBONNsSQwElFCdvSyxhq cGL4FZ5A1LGBAGNN+aHnfw0X8hvNsFB7EcmBsZ1v fUt64xRG5gy2+A3rMlad36iZfqrNBKncGh+Y/uEx nb+hTyANZNlHsUdAfo+lozx0xoB070e6K3rkgxDG GytOW9VjDTVR3QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB - -----End Mix Key----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.0i Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNmrcCTROc55Xv6voEQIs4ACeOat7f/0Kn5gLPazrp6rd+gGgsdEAn0nJ 4jhmxQQTvZWFg7d+BxM7WHHR =pz5z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant at notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From blancw at cnw.com Sun Dec 6 12:11:28 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:11:28 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001be214f$b78da940$688195cf@blanc> >From Tim May: : "You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed : laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your : military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can : forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback : time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians, : cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. : Payback time. Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that : they have stolen, with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in : labor camps. Payback time." ................................................. When. .. Blanc From stugreen at realtime.net Sun Dec 6 12:13:48 1998 From: stugreen at realtime.net (Stu Green) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:13:48 +0800 Subject: The Open Source Initiative needs your help [FYI - Stu] Message-ID: <366ADC4D.E7CA2ACC@realtime.net> Subject: The Open Source Initiative needs your help From: "Eric S. Raymond" Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:48:39 GMT Approved: linux-announce at news.ornl.gov (Mikko Rauhala) Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Old-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:19:37 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Xref: cyclone.swbell.net comp.os.linux.announce:3567 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Open Source Initiative needs your help. The Open Source certification mark is a valuable tool for turning on everybody interest in software on to our way of doing things. But for it to keep working, we have to make sure it doesn't get legally diluted. (This is a legal requirement; if we don't enforce the mark, we lose it.) We're a handful of unpaid volunteers. There are a lot of potential diluters out there. We need you to help us keep an eye on them. If you see the term `Open Source' (or even the lower-case `open-source') being used to describe software with distribution conditions that don't fit the Open Source Definition, please inform us at mark-misuse at opensource.org All the misuses we've seen so far are accidental. We gently set those people straight. In the process, we try to educate them and bring them fully into the open-source community. If there is ever deliberate or malicious abuse, we will be ready to do what is necessary on behalf of the community. Thanks in advance. - -- Eric S. Raymond The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville - -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. http://www.iki.fi/mjr/cola-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce at news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/mjr/linux/cola.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBNmbrGFrUI/eHXJZ5AQGXPwQAszpIGeQE6YMeHvlgKCUm285yTsaR84kj K0ZHh6Eu50kpqIfNI3kuJt9ufqM+jPZhiYxNFdT+BtcbEqPGaGLdrD1xqAM6gVY+ 6Ht90AzHrdiwx2Tdlpg1oZo32obiWHLgb5eO4rOeQkmcmmuonKRKb1yNGagnhmbZ a6y3SgRqOoI= =pLE9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rfiero at pophost.com Sun Dec 6 12:41:09 1998 From: rfiero at pophost.com (Richard Fiero) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:41:09 +0800 Subject: Palm III proves a hi-tech helper for car thieves Message-ID: <199812062006.NAA24550@pophost.com> Taken from http://www.theregister.co.uk/981204-000007.html A 3Com Palm III and software that lets the handheld control TVs and VCRs through its infrared port are all you need to nick a car these days, it seems. Danish IT journalist Lars Sorensen made the discovery when testing the sofwtare's legitimate uses. The software samples a TV's remote control signals so it can replicate them -- Sorensen wondered if it would do the same with a car's infrared lock and found that it would. Here in the UK, estimates from the Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre, quoted in New Scientist magazine, suggest that three million of the 22 million cars on the road are vulnerable to Palm-toting thieves. Interestingly, older cars that are more at risk than newer models. Most modern vehicles contain locking systems that change the locking code every time the key is used from sequences of 10 to the power 64 (a one with 64 zeros after it) making it virtually impossible to predict the code at any given instance. That said, Sorensen was able to enter a 1998 model, so no one can be sure they are safe. From nobody at nowhere.to Sun Dec 6 13:01:38 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:01:38 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Encryption Agreement Message-ID: <7fed2e22ddfc4bef12e88799314a479f@anonymous> The United States and 32 other nations that belong to a group called the Wassenaar Arrangement, which coordinates export policies for technologies that have both civilian and military use, have signed an agreement restricting exports of encryption technology from their countries. The Clinton administration, which has already imposed such controls in this country, says the agreement will help American companies compete on a more equal footing with their counterparts abroad. Privacy organizations are critical of the agreement, and a counsel for the advocacy group Americans for Computer Privacy says there will still be enormous differences in how the countries put the agreement into practice. (Washington Post 4 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Dec 6 13:20:43 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:20:43 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu> Message-ID: <199812062044.OAA12076@manifold.algebra.com> Michael Hohensee wrote: > > > William H. Geiger III wrote: > > > > In <36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 > > at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee said: > > > > >Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might > > >last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, > > >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the > > >cities die. > > > > And you say this as if it is a bad thing. > > > > Well it is, sorta. I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many > many many other people. People who (like me) aren't particularly > interested in dying of disease and/or starvation. If the "shit hits the > fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/ Well, you've made a conscious choice, being fully aware of ramifications. - Igor. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Dec 6 13:28:26 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:28:26 +0800 Subject: No food, no shit (Re: y2k/gary north delusionsn) In-Reply-To: <366A2610.7F850BA3@nyu.edu> Message-ID: <199812062043.OAA12057@manifold.algebra.com> Michael Hohensee wrote: > > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Michael Hohensee wrote: > > > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task. In a city like NYC, latrines > > > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all > > > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if > > > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more > > > places the latrines can be rotated to. > > > > Why, shit is actually pretty compact. usually with latrines, the liquid > > filtrates out, and the compressed shit does not take too much space. > > > > If you dig a deep enough hole (2-3 yards) it should last for a long, > > long time. I estimate that a human being produces about 1/2 to 1lb > > of hard waste per day, some are more full of it, some less. Let's settle > > on one lb per day. > > > > Let's see, a hole that is 5 yards wide, 3 yards deep, and, say, 2 yards > > wide, is about 30 cubic yards. It could take about 40 tons of hard > > compressed waste, that is, 80 thousand man-days of shitting can be > > compressed in it. > > > > You definitely need some heavy machinery to dig this kind of hole > > (and then you have to build smoe kind of frame over it to prevent people > > from falling into it if it collapses), but it is not hard and can even > > be done in a catastrophic scenario. > > > > That's a lot!!! Let's see,a high rise building with 50 floors and 10 > > apartments in each floor, that's about 1200 people. The latrine would > > last them what, about sixty days! And then they can dig another one. > > This assumes that we can compress it this much, which assumes that we > have sufficient machinery. It further assumes that we will be able to > ignore the "wet" component of human waste. You can't just pour it down > the drains. No, the wet component filtrates out of the hole, into the soil. Compression happens automaitcally. > Next, we should realize that these latrines are themselves not going to > be particularly sanitary, and it would be most unwise to use them for > any extended period of time. Hell, even *with* flush toilets, I've seen > people squatting down in subway stations to take a leak not more than 5 > feet from the restroom. Yeah, they are not too sanitary, but it is livable. I refer you to the book "Where there is no doctor" that talks about it. (a great book, all in all) > Further, we should realize that for the above reason, people are not > going to be particularly motivated to use these latrines. After all, > nobody wants to hold it for a long time while they wait in line to take > a leak, just for the privilege of relieving themselves in disease > central. You're going to see shit in the street in any case. I suspect that this will not be happening a lot in the cleaner parts of the city. > Finally, even if we dig these holes, (and they're *going* to be bigger > than what you describe, as they must contain liquid, as well as solid liquid disspiates. > waste), we're going to end up messing up the roads something fierce. > Big cities *need* roads to transport life-critical items. If we dig > them up, we're in even worse trouble. > > > > Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might > > > last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, > > > we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the > > > cities die. > > > > Not in the short run. They could survive for a while. > > > > - Igor. > > In the *very* short run. Like, say, a few weeks. That is if the food > doesn't stop coming in first --then things finish up a bit sooner. Well, if you have no food, you make no shit. - Igor. From whgiii at openpgp.net Sun Dec 6 13:40:21 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:40:21 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu> Message-ID: <199812062023.PAA001.79@whgiii> In <366A26C2.30D6892E at nyu.edu>, on 12/06/98 at 01:40 AM, Michael Hohensee said: >William H. Geiger III wrote: >> >> In <36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 >> at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee said: >> >> >Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might >> >last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, >> >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the >> >cities die. >> >> And you say this as if it is a bad thing. >> >Well it is, sorta. I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many >many many other people. People who (like me) aren't particularly >interested in dying of disease and/or starvation. If the "shit hits the >fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/ It is your choice to live in the cesspool know as NYC. I am originally from Chicago, I got the hell out of there the 1st chance I got and have never looked back. Large metropolitan complexes are obsolete and their problems greatly outweigh their benefits. I am a land owner and *like* owning land, I enjoy having grass and trees, streams to fish and swim in, not living in a cage with my neighbors on the other side of a paper thin wall. I have enough land that I could plow it up and do subsistence farming to survive if the collapse ever comes (subsidized with fishing and hunting). Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 6 13:57:44 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:57:44 +0800 Subject: Crypto deterrents Message-ID: <199812062121.WAA24707@replay.com> White men traded as 'sex slaves' of black prisoners By Fergal Keane, in Illinois WHITE male prisoners in American jails are being "sold as sex slaves" by black fellow inmates for money, tobacco, drugs and alcohol, according to campaigners who are urging action to end widespread homosexual rape behind bars. Damaging claims of complicity by prison guards are also emerging. Five wardens at a Californian maximum security jail are facing charges relating to the rape of an inmate by a notorious sexual predator. The wardens allegedly forced a troublesome prisoner to share a cell with a black gang leader, who was rewarded with extra food and clothes for imposing "discipline" on the man. According to the campaigners, the sex attacks often carry ugly racial overtones, with many white prisoners claiming that they were sexually abused after being placed in cells with black inmates. Most victims are too scared to complain, it is claimed, and those that do say they have been ignored by the authorities. The scale of the scandal has been uncovered by the pressure group Human Rights Watch, which next year will publish a report documenting the "staggering prevalence" of prison rape. The situation is not just provoking concern among civil liberties groups. In the state of Illinois, a prominent conservative figure, Republican legislator Cal Skinner, is also pushing for tougher government action. He claims that many of the rape victims have been infected with the HIV virus and that American prisons are becoming a breeding ground for Aids. Mr Skinner said: "There are sexual slaves in too many prisons. People are being given a death sentence." He wants to see the mandatory Aids testing of all prisoners with the segregation of those found to be HIV positive. He believes it is one of the few ways of protecting vulnerable inmates from the potentially fatal effect of prison rape. The renewed concern over rape in prisons has come too late for Michael Blucker, 29, a white man from Crystal Lake in Illinois, who was repeatedly gang-raped while serving a sentence for burglary. Blucker's ordeal is almost too horrific to contemplate: he was forced to become a sex slave to black prisoners at Menard State Penitentiary in Illinois. Prison rape is not confined to white victims but they are particularly vulnerable as black gang members make up such a large part of the American prison population. Blucker said: "I was the only white man in a gallery [wing] of more than 100 prisoners. Most of the guys were in for very serious crimes; they were people who weren't going to be getting out of there any time in the next 30 years." The first attack came when Blucker had been in jail just two weeks. He was set upon by three black prisoners, stripped, beaten and raped. "They would have killed me if I had refused. Killing means nothing to these people," he said. Once it became known that he had been raped, Blucker's life became even more of a nightmare. In the violent world of American prisons, an inmate who "allows" himself to be raped is regarded as fair game for every other inmate and is used as a sex slave, normally under the direction of a senior gang leader. In Blucker's case, one of the black prisoners sold him to other inmates on a daily basis. "He would physically threaten me and threaten to have harm done to my wife outside prison. Every day, I would be sold as a sex object while he was given money and cigarettes and marijuana and alcohol in return." When the threats of violence did not cow Blucker, his tormentor would beat him into submission. While filming in Butner prison in North Carolina, I met Ivory Rhodes, a black prisoner, who was attacked within days of being placed in the cell of a known rapist. The pattern he described was almost exactly the same as that experienced by Blucker. A violent attack and the threat of death followed by brutal rape. Rhodes's solution was to try to spend long periods in solitary confinement, a deprivation he preferred to risking his life in the main cells. Rhodes managed to avoid being raped again, but whenever he was transferred from one prison to another, the stigma of "rape victim" went with him. After his rape, Rhodes never moved out of his cell without carrying a knife. He described a world in which any weakness is preyed upon by the tougher and older inmates. The young, the first-time offenders, the middle class are especially vulnerable to attack. Blucker said: "There are people who say that if somebody attacked them in prison they would kill themselves or kill other people. That is bull. It just doesn't happen that way." What was almost certainly his worst experience occurred in the showers when he was set upon by a large gang of prisoners. "They pulled bricks out of the wall and they hit me in the nose and the eye and then on the back of the head, which knocked me out." Then he was repeatedly raped. "I couldn't tell you if it was one, three, 10 or 15 people. All I know is that I felt very unwell." At first, Blucker said, he was too frightened to report the rapes for fear of being killed by the other inmates, but after the shower incident he spoke to prison officials. The result, he claimed, was indifference. "I spoke to officers and medical people and no one believed me." Blucker subsequently took a court action against several prison guards and the prison psychiatrist but was unable to prove his claims. What is not disputed is that he needed extensive surgery for injuries sustained in the attack and that while in prison he contracted the HIV virus. Blucker was eventually transferred from Menard after lobbying a local politician. Now a free man, he is looking for a job and is actively involved in his church. God, he says, will save him from Aids. Fergal Keane is a BBC Special Correspondent From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Sun Dec 6 14:00:34 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:00:34 +0800 Subject: SHANGHAI ENTREPRENEUR TRIED IN CHINA Message-ID: <6a14bed1b17c17c83c7e0f7ade41d93e@anonymous> The Chinese government has put 30-year-old Shanghai computer software businessman Lin Hai on trial for "inciting the overthrow of state power" by providing 30,000 e-mail addresses to a U.S. Internet magazine called "Big Reference" published by Chinese dissidents. Chinese authorities closed the four-hour trial for what it said were "national security" reasons, and "persuaded" one member of Lin's legal team not to attend the trial. Lin's wife Xu Hong, who was questioned by the police for six hours, has indicated that Lin's lawyer "said he didn't have a very good feeling -- that things won't be good for Lin and he will probably be found guilty." (Washington Post 5 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Sun Dec 6 14:12:06 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:12:06 +0800 Subject: MITNICK TRIAL POSTPONED AGAIN Message-ID: The long-awaited trial of Kevin Mitnick, the accused computer hacker indicted on 25 counts of "stealing, copying, and misappropriating proprietary computer software" from a number of cellular and computer companies, has been postponed until April 20 after Mitnick's lawyer asked for more time to prepare his case. The trial was slated to begin on January 19. Mitnick has been in jail in Los Angeles awaiting trial since February 1995. - Los Angeles Times 4 Dec 98 #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From emc at wire.insync.net Sun Dec 6 15:00:45 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:00:45 +0800 Subject: Aharonov-Bohm Effect In-Reply-To: <199812061706.LAA29544@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199812062227.QAA30068@wire.insync.net> Here's a reference to a conference session I just found on the Web. The presenters claim that prior demonstrations of the A-B effect were bogus, produced by the magnetic field of the moving particle interacting directly with the adjacent magnetic field. It also states that no evidence of a magnetic vector potential acting on a particle in the absence of a magnetic field has ever been demonstrated. Any comments? ----- Session K19 - Magnetic Modeling II. MIXED session, Wednesday afternoon, March 19 Room 2206, Conv. Center [K19.04] Ehrenberg-Siday-Aharonov-Bohm (ESAB) Effect Has Not Been Observed Gordon R. Freeman, Larry D. Coulson (University of Alberta) The beautiful results from two types of experiment that were claimed to confirm the existence of the (misnamed) Aharonov-Bohm Effect, with coherent electrons in split beams (Tonomura amp; co.) and split conductors (Webb amp; co.), are explained quantitatively by the energy of interaction of the magnetic field produced by the moving electrons with the magnetic flux of the adjacent applied field. The electron velocities (and phases) change by opposite amounts in the two parts of the split beam, and de Broglie wave interference occurs in the rejoined beam. No effect of a magnetic vector potential in the absence of a magnetic field has been demonstrated, so the ESAB Effect has not been demonstrated to exist. -- Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html From weidai at eskimo.com Sun Dec 6 16:23:22 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:23:22 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol In-Reply-To: <199812051937.TAA12780@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <19981206154903.B26047@eskimo.com> On Sun, Dec 06, 1998 at 12:08:04AM +0000, Adam Back wrote: > (1) Inflation -- the cost of hardware to compute a given collision > falls in line with Moores law. Perhaps one could get around this by > defining a b-money unit to require more computational effort over > time. Say define 1 b-money unit to be the computational effort of 1 > months compute on the most efficient hardware that can be bought for > $1000 at current prices and state of hardware. Actually this problem has already been accounted for in the protocol. The amount of b-money you create when you burn some CPU time depends on the relative cost of CPU time verses a standard basket of goods. As the cost of computation falls relative to that basket, the amount of CPU time needed to create a unit of b-money automaticly rises. So the result is that there should be no inflation with b-money, unless the b-money economy shrinks or the velocity of b-money increases (because it's not possible to reduce the b-money money supply). > (3) Linkability -- although the participants are anonymous, their > transactions are linkable and so participants are pseudonymous in > b-money (linkable anonymity being pseudonymity). This is inherent > because of the need to broadcast transactions to ensure the open book > entry is updated. > > (4) You can get money in -- by buying hardware -- but it will cost > different people different amounts. If I am using an existing general > purpose workstation my units will cost more than if I buy custom > hardware. Not so bad a problem, just view this as an economy of > scale, or a bulk discount. > > (5) Getting money in by buying hardware works, but people don't want > the inconvenience of buying custom hardware, they would rather just > buy b-money for force-monopoly backed money (national currencies). If > we setup a mint which made it it's business to buy up-to-date custom > hardware it would be difficult to buy b-money anonymously because the > pseudonym would reveal his identity by the use of traceable payment > systems (credit card, cheque, wire transfer, etc). > > (6) Getting money out is difficult also. The pseudonymous b-money > user would find it difficult to obtain force-monopoly money without > revealing his identity. Problems 3-6 can be solved with my payment-mix idea. This is simply a Chaumian mint where people buy blinded ecash with b-money and then sell it back a little later under a different pseudonym. Presto your b-money is no longer linkable. The nice thing about this mint is that you don't have to trust it very much since it should have very few outstanding obligations at any one time. What obligations it does have of course can be backed with b-money. From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Dec 6 16:29:49 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:29:49 +0800 Subject: tyranny of corporations Message-ID: <199812062342.PAA05825@netcom13.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:11:08 -0700 From: Robert Weissman To: Multiple recipients of list CORP-FOCUS Subject: corporation nation Exxon merges with Mobil. Citicorp marries Travelers. Daimler Benz gobbles up Chrysler. BankAmerica takes over NationsBank. WorldCom eats MCI. Corporations are getting bigger and bigger, and their influence over our lives continues to grow. America is in an era of corporate ascendancy, the likes of which we haven't seen since the Gilded Age. Charles Derber, a professor of sociology at Boston College, believes that, contrary to the lessons our civics teacher taught us, it is undemocratic corporations, not governments, that are dominating and controlling society. In his most recent book, Corporation Nation (St. Martin's Press, 1998), Derber argues that the consequence of the growing power of giant corporate multinationals is increased disparity in wealth, rampant downsizing and million dollar CEOs making billion dollar decisions with little regard for average American. A couple of years ago, Derber wrote The Wilding of America (St. Martin's Press, 1996) in which he argued that the American Dream had transmuted into a semi-criminal, semi-violent virus that is afflicting large parts of the elites of the country. That book tried to call attention to the extent to which violent behavior could be understood as a product of oversocialization. "The problem was not that they had been underexposed to American values, but that they could not buffer themselves from those values," Derber told us. "They had lost the ability to constrain any kind of anti-social behavior -- because of obsessions with success -- the American Dream." By anti-social behavior, Derber means the epitome of Reaganism -- "a kind of warping of the more healthy forms of individualism in our culture into a hyperindividualism in which people asserted their own interests without regard to its impact on others." At the time, Derber was interviewed on a Geraldo show about paid assassins - - -- people who killed for money. "It was scary to be around young people who confessed to killing for relatively small amounts of money -- a few thousand dollars," Derber said. "They said things like -- 'you have to understand, this is just a business, everybody has to make money.' I pointed out on the show that this was the language that business usually uses." At the same time, Newsweek ran a cover story titled "Corporate Killers." On the cover, Newsweek ran the mug shots of four CEOs who had downsized in profitable periods and upped their own salaries. "These corporate executives tended to use the same language as the paid assassins on the Geraldo show, 'I feel fine about this because I'm just doing what the market requires,'" Derber explains. "I develop an analogy between paid assassins on the street and those in the suites. In the most general sense, these corporate executives are paid hitmen who use very much the same language and rationalization. I argue that corporations are exemplifying a form of anti-social behavior which is undermining a great deal of the social fabric and civilized values that we would hope to sustain." With the hitmen parallel fresh in his mind, Derber began writing Corporation Nation. In it, Derber points to the parallels between today and the age of the robber barons 100 years ago -- the wave of corporate mergers, the widening gulf between rich and poor (Bill Gates' net worth (well over $50 billion) is more than that of the bottom 100 million Americans), the enormous influence of corporations over democratic institutions, both major parties bought off by big business, and a Democratic President closely aligned with big business (Grover Cleveland then, Bill Clinton today). One big difference between then and now: back then, a real grassroots populist movement rose up to challenge corporate power, though it did not succeed in attaining its core goals. Today, while there are many isolated movements challenging individual corporate crimes, there is no mass movement attacking the corporation as the cause of the wealth disparity, destruction of the environment, and all the many other corporate driven ills afflicting society. Derber, a professor of sociology at Boston College, says that when he asks his students, "Have you ever thought about the question of whether corporations in general have too much power," they uniformly say they have never had that question raised. Derber says that one good way to again build a populist movement to attack corporate power is to study the language and tactics of the populists of 100 years ago. He has, and he makes clear in his book that the original conception of the corporation was one of a public -- not private -- entity. We the people created the corporation to build roads, and bridges, and deliver the goods. If the corporation didn't do as we said, we yanked their charter. The corporate lawyers quickly got their hands around that idea, smashed it, and replaced it with the current conception of the corporation, a private person under the law, with the rights and privileges of any other living and breathing citizen. Thus, a quick transformation from "we decide" to "they decide." Derber is a bit too modest to say it, so we will: perhaps the best way to rebuild a strong, vibrant and populist movement is to get this book into the hands of people who care about democracy. The corporations have us on the run, but we should pause for a moment or two, find a quiet place, and read this book. Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Multinational Monitor. (c) Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman Focus on the Corporation is a weekly column written by Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman. Please feel free to forward the column to friends or repost the column on other lists. If you would like to post the column on a web site or publish it in print format, we ask that you first contact us (russell at essential.org or rob at essential.org). Focus on the Corporation is distributed to individuals on the listserve corp-focus at essential.org. To subscribe to corp-focus, send an e-mail message to listproc at essential.org with the following all in one line: subscribe corp-focus (no period). Focus on the Corporation columns are posted on the Multinational Monitor web site . Postings on corp-focus are limited to the columns. If you would like to comment on the columns, send a message to russell at essential.org or rob at essential.org. - - ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE20F3.6E8982C0-- - - --------------81265CC28DD038A0DC2CB928-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Sun Dec 6 17:06:39 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:06:39 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <19981207003454.25653.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> As Karl Marx said also, "Democracy is a slow form of communism." That's why the forfathers decided to make us a republic, something many have forgotten. ---HyperReal-Anon wrote: > > "Phillip Hallam-Baker" writes > > John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we > have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the > ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed > meetings. > > Yes, and people democratically demand government enforcement of the > majority will, something made more difficult if the subjects have > strong cryptography. > > As Donn Parker observed several years ago, strong cryptography is > inconsistent with democracy. (Published in Scientific American --- > reference on request.) > > John Gilmore writes > > Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think > about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy, > the USSA. And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the > right choices. Let's keep trying. > > But don't educate them too much, or they will understand that > cryptography can set people free, and if people were free there would > be no political government, and if there were no political government > their social security checks would stop coming, along with all their > other government ``benefits''. > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From michael at sparta.mainstream.net Sun Dec 6 17:40:58 1998 From: michael at sparta.mainstream.net (Michael Hohensee) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:40:58 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812062023.PAA001.79@whgiii> Message-ID: <366B17BF.963FFEA@sparta.mainstream.net> "William H. Geiger III" wrote: > > Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me. > And me. Sadly, I have little choice, as I'm stuck with attending NYU for the present. That shouldn't be a problem soon, assuming I succeed in transferring to a nicer place. Michael Hohensee From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 11:18:39 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:18:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah at pop.sneaker.net Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:02:59 -0500 To: dcsb at ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce at ai.mit.edu From: Robert Hettinga Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Cc: Ira Heffan , Mike Schmelzer , Roland Mueller , "Jonathan J. Rusch" Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Tuesday, January 5th, 1999 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA Although the very idea of patenting software seems to be an anathema to much of the programming community, patents on software continue to stream out of the U.S. Patent Office. Everyone involved in digital commerce applications, which are by definition software-based, probably has heard about recent events: The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit decided "State Street Bank & Trust Co. v. Signature Financial Group," which explicitly ratified patenting methods of doing business, and a spate of well-publicized patents have issued claiming to cover such concepts as the virtual shopping cart and the reverse auction. As a prerequisite to discussing these recent developments, the first part of our talk will provide an introduction to patents. We will explain what patents are and what they are not, and describe the business goals that a patent can serve. Then we will talk about current events, and attempt to put the _State Street_ case in context. We will present a survey of recently-issued patents (suggestions welcome) related to digital commerce, and conclude with some speculation about current trends, including a novel form of software patent with potentially huge implications. Ira Heffan (heffan at tht.com) and Mike Schmelzer (schmelze at tht.com) are patent attorneys at Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP (http://www.tht.com). We will be presenting our own personal views on this topic, and not the views of Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP or its clients. This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, January 5, 1999, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and the speakers' lunch. The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code. We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, January 2nd, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Upcoming speakers for DCSB are: February Roland Mueller European Privacy Directive March Jonathan Rusch Internet Fraud We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, . For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to . We look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNmwX/8UCGwxmWcHhAQFfjgf+IBe01g9XCldZYT+GRDI5ho1sOPgL6W7q zLDQToz0GGM/NZzv44SMTSGpDFx80R1yautvy4xHMnYQy2UnvO2WGsfrjuwSdQte 8qxoRAFkihyP/mi/83As2TwWdp6QhwbjI02hyP6elsdSzsspflwwonOB4I+8E/xX UDsGdQH4AHaWrK1S5XYfJSHSRGOBpk2+cqboiGvbcbC1z0vDRGrnztf8GADoPVC3 6vw4M00f+cgIuoaqqO4ol62Os6D+WPVw2NMop20OD62EGzYO2pyQjboPvBLxyRD7 smLz/4S598uLZF0GX+GO/8rCjAORask/Qt3SFIU2HMMPj9nKIvVtJw== =gz6w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From blancw at cnw.com Sun Dec 6 20:18:37 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:18:37 +0800 Subject: tyranny of corporations In-Reply-To: <199812062342.PAA05825@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <000301be2196$63893520$838195cf@blanc> >From Vladimir Z. Nurvis, Token Cpunk Socialist: [quoting Robert Weissman] : Derber is a bit too modest to say it, so we will: perhaps the : best way to rebuild a strong, vibrant and populist movement is to get : this book into the hands of people who care about democracy. The : corporations have us on the run, but we should pause for a moment : or two, find a quiet place, and read this book. ........................................... The corporations have us on the run, but we should pause for a moment or two, find a quiet place, and start our own Virtual Company. .. Blanc From schear at lvcm.com Sun Dec 6 21:08:55 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:08:55 +0800 Subject: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations) Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1621 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alan at clueserver.org Sun Dec 6 21:13:23 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:13:23 +0800 Subject: At a Comic Shop near you... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981206205339.039facd0@clueserver.org> This may or may not be of interest... Spy v.s. Spy action figures are now available! There is a black spy and a white spy (sorry, no grey spy). Each comes with lots of gadgets (knives, blackjacks, saws and a bomb). Each spy has "bomb throwing action". They are distributed through comic shops at the moment. They sold out pretty quick where I got mine, so you will not want to wait if you want one. --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From bennett at peacefire.org Sun Dec 6 22:06:40 1998 From: bennett at peacefire.org (Bennett Haselton) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:06:40 +0800 Subject: DSA for encryption Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981206222557.00913960@h.mail.vanderbilt.edu> Hi, I'm working on an enhancement to a Web-based program that allows you to circumvent proxy server censorship by sending a request for a Web page to a computer in the outside world that is not blocked by the proxy, and having that computer re-send a copy of the banned page back to you. The current version of the software, written by Brian Ristuccia this past summer, is at http://ians.ml.org:8801 where you type a URL into the form, submit it, and the resulting page has a URL like: http://ians.ml.org:8801/aHR0cDovL3d3dy55YWhvby5jb20= instead of http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/http://www.yahoo.com/ which is what Anonymizer gives you, which makes it obvious what you were looking at to anyone who looks through the proxy server logs. Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server. The general outline for this scheme is at http://www.peacefire.org/bypass/Proxy/ and the current version of IANS ("Internet Alternate Name Space") is part of the way towards implementing this (theoretically) bulletproof solution. The major pending improvements to the IANS software are (1) the URL is not truly encrypted; the garbled characters in the URL above just represent some basic scrambling to evade detection by people who sweep their proxy server log files for keywords, (2) even if the URL were really encrypted, when you first fill out the form, the URL is submitted to IANS in the clear, so it could be detected by any censoring proxy server that logs data submitted by GET or POST. One Internet censorship proxy server called SmartFilter already does this and blocks you from submitting *any* banned URL's using GET or POST, so IANS does not work with SmartFilter, for example. I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to solve this problem. We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without royalties, unlike, for example, RSA. Does anybody know of a Web page that explains how the DSA algorithm can be used for encryption, as opposed to message signing and authentication? I found a page at http://www1.shore.net/~ws/Extras/Security-Notes/lectures/authent.html that describes the DSA algorithm for signature verification. I have looked very hard but have been unable to find a page about how to use DSA for encryption. Can anyone help? I know there is software like GNU Privacy Guard that implements DSA for encryption, but the source code is 3 megabytes and I was hoping there was a page that explains the process more simply than that. -Bennett bennett at peacefire.org (615) 421 5432 http://www.peacefire.org From blancw at cnw.com Sun Dec 6 23:36:15 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:36:15 +0800 Subject: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601be21b0$b087c0c0$838195cf@blanc> >From Steve Schear: � The solution to hyperindividualism isn't regulation (which can be blunted or co-opted by those with the bucks) but allowing those below to profitably advance at the expense of those at the top. Dynamic equilibrium in a new marketplace. Sort of like the way Klingons get field rank advancements. ................................. � � What do you mean, Steve, "at the expense of those at the top"?�� (I'm not aware of how the Klingons get their field rank advancements). � Also, this image of hyperindividualism doesn't seem right.� I would think such an extreme degree of individualism would exclude much involvement with others, meaning they could not run corporations, because for a business to exist requires involvement in providing a service/product to the largest numbers of the population as possible,� and they can only do this if this large mass of people see the value of, and accept, in preference to the offerings of the competition, what that particular corporation offers.� � I imagine a hyperindividual more as an independent contractor working "alone". �� ..Blanc From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Mon Dec 7 00:36:45 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:36:45 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <91301833500932@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> One thing which came to me recently when I was trying to figure out what sort of gun the US held to the rest of the world's head to get them to agree to this: Could the Wassenaar outcome have been a sign of Echelon in action? Consider this: Delegates from each country have been travelling to Vienna for some months now to negotiate their countries position. During the negotiations, they'll be contacting their governments via phonecalls carried over microwave trunks, satellite links, or undersea cables to discuss the progress of the negotiations and what position they should take. Just like the negotiations which lead to the Five-Power Treaty in 1921, if one country had the ability to intercept all the other countries communications it would know how far they could be pushed, and where the most resistance was likely to come from, allowing greater amounts of "persuasion" to be concentrated on them. I can't think of a more appropriate application of Echelon (use worldwide surveillance technology to perpetuate the usefulness of worldwide surveillance technology), and it would go some way towards explaining the very peculiar agreement which was reached. Peter. From jk at stallion.ee Mon Dec 7 02:31:38 1998 From: jk at stallion.ee (Jyri Kaljundi) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:31:38 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <000e01be200d$d7be9e10$8007a8c0@russell.internal> Message-ID: I wonder what effect the Wassenaar politics have to non-member countries of that agreement and how much those other countries support these US crypto regulations? As I understand Wassenaar is mostly meant for export of dual-use goods, not so much internal use although that is somewhat regulated also. If that is the case, we still have many countries left producing strong cryptography which can export it pretty freely. That is a great export potential for those countries, only US used to be out of the world crypto software market, now that there are 22 other countries, it is just great news. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania fortunately are not members of the Wassenaar agreement. And then we have places like most of Asia, Africa and South America. Jyri Kaljundi jk at stallion.ee AS Stallion Ltd http://www.stallion.ee/ From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 19:06:30 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:06:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: FWD: Read this. Now. And *act* on it. (was re: Building cryptoarchives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls) Message-ID: It's time, folks. They can't win if we do anything at all, but they *will* win if we do nothing. Robert Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: cryptography at c2.net, gnu at toad.com Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800 From: John Gilmore Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones. As today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for publishing PGP on his web page. Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they threaten to erect. Today we depend on a small number of archives (in a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP, SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto tools that we use daily. Let's replicate these archives in many countries. I call for volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long as it's legal. (The Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.) And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your own citizens can get the tools. That'll still be better than the citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy! (I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else. That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten except you.) I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people will send him notices at jya at pipeline.com as your sites come up. (Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend on a single site.) Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it. And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives. John Gilmore --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jei at zor.hut.fi Mon Dec 7 04:50:00 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:50:00 +0800 Subject: NEW Reuters story (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:50:55 +0000 From: Dave Bird Reply-To: ukcrypto at maillist.ox.ac.uk To: ukcrypto at maillist.ox.ac.uk Subject: NEW Reuters story In article <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F85F3 at MSX11002>, Brown, R Ken writes >r [sent to crytpo list, and to CIV LIBS DISCUSS] Yahoo! News http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wr/story.html?s=v/nm/19981203/wr/ privacy_1.html Thursday 3 December 1998 12:38 PM ET Europe readies police techno-surveillance law By Niall McKay SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - The European Union is quietly getting ready to approve legislation that will allow the police to eavesdrop both on Internet conversations and Iridium satellite telephone calls without obtaining court authorization. The legislation is part of a much wider memorandum of understanding between the EU, the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Norway, a nonmember European nation. That agreement allows authorities to conduct telecom surveillance across international borders, according to a Europol document leaked to members of the European Parliament. ``Security measures are often necessary in the cases of terrorism or organized crime,'' said Glyn Ford, a member of the European Parliament for the British Labour Party and a director of the EU's Civil Liberties and Internal Affairs Committee. ''But what we need is some sort of democratic control. It seems to me that many security services are a law unto themselves.'' That will presumably be a topic of discussion when the European Council of Ministers meets behind closed doors Thursday to update a 1995 wiretap agreement known as the Legal Interception of Telecommunications Resolution. If approved, it would permit real-time, remote monitoring of email, as well as of calls placed on satellite telephone networks such as those maintained by Iridium and Globalstar. Unlike most laws in Europe, the agreement will allow law enforcement to listen in without a court order. ``This is a US export,'' said Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. ``It's a European version of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act.'' The act, passed in 1984, was intended to allow law enforcers to tap the digital lines of tomorrow, just as they tap analog phone lines now. Ironically, in September, the European Parliament called for account- ability of Echelon, the US National Security Agency's spying network that is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication-telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, or telex. Under European law, representatives of each member nation can pass legally binding resolutions. Further, the resolutions don't require the approval of either the European Parliament or the individual parliaments of EU members. Many European Parliament members are outraged that the Council of Ministers has been acting in secret. They are especially concerned about the inclusion of non-EU nations in the agreement. Patricia McKenna, a representative for Britain's Green Party, will raise the issue in Parliament this week. She also intends to ask Europe's Justice and Internal Affairs Council to ''justify the secrecy and lack of consultation surrounding these initiatives.'' McKenna is requesting what she described as an ``open debate on the crucial and far-reaching measures, with enormous potential impact in the realm of privacy.'' Another member of the European Parliament believes that the so-called ``update resolutions'' will have staggering implications for personal privacy. ``This legislation is not just a technical update,'' said Johannes Voggenhuber, an Austrian representative for the European Parliament. ``It places the onus on the telecommunications carrier to provide a watertight back door to police.'' The European Council for General Security prepared the amendment with technical assistance from the FBI, according to the Europol document leaked. The four major satellite telephone operators-Iridium, Globalstar, Odyssey, and ICO-will be required by the law to provide access to European law enforcement through ground stations in France, Italy, England, and Germany. Iridium officials could not be reached for comment. It is unclear how the memorandum of understanding will affect US citizens. ``I find it very hard to believe that a foreign nation-any foreign nation-could eavesdrop on US citizens,'' said John Pike, a security analyst with the Federation of American Scientists. ``It's one thing for the FBI to try and track terrorists across international borders, but it's entirely another to let Europeans tap US citizens' telephones.'' The FBI would neither confirm nor deny any relationship between the United States and the other nations involved in the memorandum of understanding. However, Rotenberg said such provisions are already in place under the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. While the new European law is being sold to EU member states as a means of combating what the legislation calls ``serious and organized'' crime, there is no clear definition of this phrase. ``It simply concerns any punishable offense,'' said Tony Bunyan, director of Statewatch, a European civil liberties group. (Reuters/Wired) |~/ |~/ ~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~ P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:) From jya at pipeline.com Mon Dec 7 05:16:43 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:16:43 +0800 Subject: AU WassenaarWassenaar changes Message-ID: <199812071243.HAA12590@smtp2.mindspring.com> [OK to repost to crypto lists and Cryptome - dant] I spoke this afternoon with one of the Australian delegates at the Wassenaar meeting, an official from the Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT). Speaking off the record, they confirmed the changes at Wassenaar are pretty much as we know already: - NEW CONTROLS on mass market crypto products (hardware and software); - DEREGULATING all weak encryption products using key lengths up to 56 bits; - EXEMPTING mass market software where the key length is 64 bits or less; - EXTENDING the same mass market exemption to hardware for the first time; - EXCLUDING encryption products that protect intellectual property, such as digital watermarking; - NO DECISION was made about regulating 'intangible' distribution of technology, including Internet downloads. Apparently in the short term the intangibles issue is being considered in other fora (including the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) which includes Australia thanks to Filthy Jabilucre et al). It is still not clear whether the new restrictions are intended to stop public domain software such as PGP*. The DFAT contact said there was no discussion about an intention to stop public domain packages like PGP. They did not think public domain was being restricted. Yet apparently the Australian DoD has expressed the David Aaron view that public domain is subject to the same restrictions as mass market. * PGP is "in the public domain" for the purposes of Wassenaar/DSGL, since the definition states: "in the public domain" (GTN NTN GSN), as it applies herein, means "technology" or "software" which has been made available without restrictions upon its further dissemination (copyright restrictions do not remove "technology" or "software" from being "in the public domain") Note: there is no equivalent definition for "mass market", but the General Software Note (GSN) states it thus: Generally available to the public by being: 1. Sold from stock at retail selling points, without restriction, by means of: a. Over-the-counter transactions; b. Mail order transactions; or c. Telephone order transactions; and 2. Designed for installation by the user without substantial support by the supplier; Dan ===== Dan Tebbutt, Technology Journalist, Melbourne Australia Australian Personal Computer (http://www.apcmag.com) LAN Corporate IT (http://www.lanlive.com) The Australian (http://www.newsit.com.au) Ph: +61-3-9347-8893 Fax:+61-2-9264-6320 Email: dant at acp.com.au "The revolution will be televised ... on pay-per-view." From feedback at telescan.com Mon Dec 7 21:28:03 1998 From: feedback at telescan.com (feedback at telescan.com) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:28:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Alpha Options Newsletter Message-ID: <199812080528.VAA21163@toad.com> Dear Fellow Investor, If you're a trader/investor and like quick, large profits, you'll want to take a look at the Alpha Options Newsletter, available from Telescan through the TIP software or on Telescan's investor's supersite, Wall Street City (www.wallstreetcity.com). 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The newsletter offers a candid and unbiased opinion on stocks and recommends both calls and puts as justified by the market. The AON portfolio typically holds between 5-15 open positions, with average being about 8 open positions. The authors analyze each recommendation in detail and give specific targets for when to take profits. The newsletter is published 48 times a year on Sunday evenings. You can subscribe to this informative, educational newsletter online for just $30/month. Call 1-800-324-4692 to subscribe. So go ahead and give the newsletter a try and see how you too can generate substantial profits from trading options. *The ideal starting portfolio size is $20,000, although a starting portfolio of $5,000 is sufficient. Disclaimer: Trading involves risk, including possible loss of principle and other losses. Your trading results may vary. No representations are being made that these techniques will result in or guarantee profits in trading. Past performance is no indication of future results. From jya at pipeline.com Mon Dec 7 06:03:52 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:03:52 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <91301833500932@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <199812071331.IAA23674@smtp2.mindspring.com> Peter Gutmann may be close to the truth about Echelon's role in the Wassenaar changes. The NYT reports today that the US is proposing to NATO a combined intelligence center to combat use of Weapons of Mass Destruction by rogue states and non-state terrorists like Usama Bin Laden. There is some dissent among the Europeans over the US's attempt to frighten the populace with a new worldwide menace to replace the boogies of the Cold War. Still, it appears that intelligence on the threat of terrorist use of WMD is being whispered in ears of those holding out for privacy protection. And a correlative threat of strong encryption is surely part of those scenarios. As in the US, it's probable that domestic restrictions on strong crypto are being advanced to combat domestic terrorism in countries around the world, following the precedent set during the Cold War, which, as we all know was the evil parent of Wassenaar's predecessor COCOM. GAO put out a report (GGD-99-7) a few days ago on the FBI's expenditures for counterterrorism from 1995-98. It shows a dramatic increase year by year, with big leaps authorized by Congress following each "terrorist incident," for funds for a host of domestic agencies. GAO wonders (as does Congress which asked for the report) if it's all being put to beneficial effect. Its description of CT activities carefully excludes the classified, and also omits the global efforts of US military -- not least of which is its vast intelligence apparatus, tidbits of which are surely being tossed to the Wassenaar puppies to get them to go along with the Terrorism War Machinery. The NYT has been running a series on how long the TLAs and military have been tracking Usama Bin Laden (at least since 1991, maybe longer). It appears that if he did not exist he would have to be invented for the counterterrorism agenda. It's even possible that Bin Laden is their invention, cultivated, strung along, not arrested, for that purpose. The African bombings were probably preventable, and it will be interesting if Congress lets this possibility go uninvestigated. More interesting to Americans, maybe, is that there also appears to be an effort to boost domestic militia, particularly the religious brand, as the homefront Bin Laden. The rise of religion-based terrorism is explored at length in Bruce Hoffman's recent "Inside Terrorism." Hoffman claims that religious terrorists may be the worst enemies ever, for they do not believe in political compromise: they want to kill every single opponent, and have no reservations about using WMD. If this theory is correct (and Hoffman has worked with RAND for years on the issue) then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds away, but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying Armageddon not merely a familiar commie takeover. Hoffman says to expect more OKCs around the globe. To be sure, that's his business to say that. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Dec 7 06:45:23 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:45:23 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? (fwd) Message-ID: <199812071414.IAA04296@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:21:21 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? > More interesting to Americans, maybe, is that there also appears to be > an effort to boost domestic militia, particularly the religious brand, as the > homefront Bin Laden. The rise of religion-based terrorism is explored at > length in Bruce Hoffman's recent "Inside Terrorism." Hoffman claims that > religious terrorists may be the worst enemies ever, for they do not > believe in political compromise: they want to kill every single opponent, > and have no reservations about using WMD. 5,000 years of human history bears this thesis out. > If this theory is correct (and Hoffman has worked with RAND for years on > the issue) then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during > the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds away, > but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying Armageddon not > merely a familiar commie takeover. This is also their biggest weakness. It's one reason the US has never been host to a large movement in the 20th century, outside the racist, anti-communist, and pro-lifers (and the first two are pretty much dead) because your neighbor probably doesn't go to the same church you do, probably not from the same part of the country. The chances of an individual opening up to their neighbor and getting a warm reception for bombing someplace is pretty low. Realisticaly, the only reason the pro-lifers get as warm a reception as they do is so many people see it as hypocritical. It's ok to kill a killer is their thinking, it is after all a form of pre-partum assissted self-defence. > Hoffman says to expect more OKCs around the globe. To be sure, that's > his business to say that. Considering the rate at which they occur now there is zero rational reason to believe these groups will cease any time in the near future. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From billp at nmol.com Mon Dec 7 07:47:49 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:47:49 +0800 Subject: US attorney notified Message-ID: <366BE794.2F54@nmol.com> Michell was notified that we are in the process of initiating legal action to get the lien removed. Let's hope she has the sense to do what we ask. This matter should have been settled. It is getting WORSE. From jya at pipeline.com Mon Dec 7 07:57:14 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:57:14 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar News Message-ID: <199812071515.KAA26956@smtp2.mindspring.com> We spoke with Igor at the WA today to ask about the implementation report Caspar Bowden said would be coming shortly. It seems that Dirk Weicke, the person preparing it (whom Caspar queried), is out sick and won't return to work until Thursday. Another person working on the report, a Mr. Sidbitt (?) is also out sick but should be back at work tomorrow. At the moment there is no plan to offer the report on the WA Web site. Each member will decide how to publicize it. Igor, a friendly, reminded that the WA staff has no authority, indeed has an evanescent existence, and is subject to vanishing without explanation. The paranoid WA members, my words, cut no slack, cut-throat control of perfidious news is their modus operandi. Still, Igor chuckled at my reporting that the perfidious USG will not anwser my inquiries, being unable to trust its terrifying citizenry. He refused my plea to send a purloined report, a report which, on the evidence, appears to be quite sickening. From brownrk1 at texaco.com Mon Dec 7 08:36:18 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:36:18 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F85FD@MSX11002> John Young talked about the way the TLAs are whipping up the War Against Drugs and the threat od terrorists, WMDs and bogies (in English slang "bogies" are little bits of partially dried snot that plug up your nose... but that's by-the-by) and concludes with: [... If Bruce Hoffman is right ...] > then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during > the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds > away, but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying > Armageddon not merely a familiar commie takeover. Ambulance Driver: "Yeah, Doc, there was a nasty accident out on the interstate." Dr. Bassett: "Bad one, eh?" Ambulance Driver: "Yeah, a truck and a car collided. Ya know, it was kinda funny... the truck was carrying a load of the strangest-looking seed pods." Ken Brown From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 08:41:44 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:41:44 +0800 Subject: Corporate Mandarins and The Tyranny of *Hierarchy* (was: tyrannyof corporations (was: Corporate Nations)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:44 PM -0500 on 12/6/98, Steve Schear wrote: > whereupon she said that my profile was an exact match with those who >reach the highest levels of the corporate world. Then the bad news, its >also the profile of a master criminal. I kid you not. What a canard, Steve. I hope you don't actually believe it. That sounds to me more like a romantic leftist sociological pseudoscientific fantasy (I know, quintuply redundant :-)) about what it takes to run a large business than any actual scientific observation of human behavior. This "sociological" analysis probably went over really well at a touchy-feely corporate navel-gazing camp because it's more the way some grey-flannel men *wish* they were, than the way they actually are. Thus the prevalence on business bookshelves of titles like Machiavelli's "The Prince", or Sun Tsu's "Art of War", or actual dreck like, I don't know, "Accounts Receivable Secrets of Genghis Kahn", or something. The fact is, people who've *built* very large businesses more or less from scratch, like Sam Walton and Hugh Heffner, or even "criminals" like Rockefeller and Gates, even people who took daddy's money and made it outrageously larger, like J. Pierpont Morgan, Ned Johnson and Malcolm Forbes, are no more criminal in their intent, much less behavior, than my 77 year-old mother is. Like any real entrepreneur, from junkyard owner to dry-cleaner, these people are just motivated, and they work very hard at something they like. The size of someone's success in building a business is certainly more a function of brains -- and maybe a smidgeon of luck -- than brutality or ruthlessness. Most senior corporate *managers*, on the other hand, especially those at the top, are much more like blue-button mandarins than Genghis Kahn. They got there by facilly regurgitating the modern version of Confucian Analects back to their teachers, from kindergarten all the way through business and law school. Actually working hard would break their long fingernails. And, please, don't a confuse the time these mandarins spend at the Emporor's court with hard work, as most very high-level "meetings", like the corporate "retreat" above, are social functions in disguise -- parties, in other words. As a result, these modern mandarins would rather fantasize themselves as murderous feudal aristocrats -- or, more laughably, as the modern equivalent in organized crime -- to justify their existance, or more realisticaly, to relieve the tedium of supervising an enormous enterprise which usually makes much more money simply by leaving it alone than it does when actively "managed" or "regulated". "Greed, for the lack of a better term, is good", as Oliver Stone sarcastically said, damning progress with typical leftist Luddite faint praise. Yet, as Russell observed, leftist ideology [like Luddism] is just fuedalism's response to industrial progress. In that light, it makes much more sense to actually take Mr. Stone at his word, and ignore his post-modern "subtext". So, money and power begets envy. So, what else is new? People who can, do. Those who can't, teach Sociology and call those who can "criminals", much to the titilation of their customers in senior corporate management. Meanwhile, the only *real* criminal activities, force and fraud, are *bad* for business. Ask anyone living in Afganistan or Bosnia, or in North Korea or Iraq, or, within recent memory, in inner-city Boston or Chicago. Fortunately for us, the time is coming when people who invent *new* ideas will make more money and have considerably more aggregate power than people who live at the top of, or even those who create, large hierarchical organizations in order to finance, and market, and, eventually, regulate, *old* ideas. And, since society can axiomatically produce literal swarms of people who are creative and inventive, all in their own specialties, many more than it can a few mandarin senior managers and politicians at the top of very large hierarchical organizations, "power" itself, the ability to use force, or more recently, fraud, to coerce or extort behavior from someone else, will become much more diffuse. Except, that is, on occasions when almost everyone, probably using a market to do so, agrees on what must be done. And, anyone who's watched the capital markets lately knows how fast a market can act when the time comes. The reason for this change is simple. If infinitely-replicable information becomes more important than finite land or machinery, and, more to the point, if *new* information can be auctioned, for cash, at a higher price than old information, instantaneously, recursively -- and anonymously -- across an increasingly geodesic network, then the power, the very *glamour* of hierarchy -- and the snycophant court jesters it creates, like the aforementioned "corporate sociologist" -- will be as dead as Sun Tsu's middle-kingdom warlords, or Machievelli's renaissance princes. Or, more properly, Ming-dynasty blue-button mandarins. Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Mon Dec 7 08:47:22 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:47:22 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions Message-ID: As a former New Yorker, I find this whole thread majorly uninformed. Most of New York's water moves from the Catskills to the tap (or toilet) via gravity, without encountering a pump at any point during the way. Even if all power and automated controls failed, most of the city would continue to get water (remember - the system was designed long before computers, or even widespread electricity). The only areas with major problems would be the high spots - Washington Heights/ Spanish Harlem, some parts of the Bronx, and the upper floors of some highrises. Even assuming that somehow every toilet in the city became unusable, the decidedly lowtech solid waste disposal system (trucks to landfills in Staten Island and New Jersey, or barges to the Atlantic), would still operate. The solid volume of people's excrement is miniscule compared to the volume of material already handled. (If you think no crap goes into the system, you clearly have not spent time near in infant in the age of Pampers). I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities which have grown recently in arid areas, would have a lot more trouble. Peter Trei From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 08:48:14 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:48:14 +0800 Subject: Commerce Hacked? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: Somebody To: Robert Hettinga Subject: Re: Commerce Hacked? Mime-Version: 1.0 Looks like he [Aaron] has been successful. No one is talking about the extortive quality of sending out the commerce minister to argue for crypto controls. Why don't they send an air force general who giggles about radiated cities between bites of rumaki. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From franghjk at skynet.be Tue Dec 8 01:02:56 1998 From: franghjk at skynet.be (franghjk at skynet.be) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:02:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: ATTENTION SMOKERS STOP SMOKING IMMEDIATELY Message-ID: BE A NON-SMOKER IN 7 DAYS!!! WITH KICK-IT *Kick-It Works 96% of the Time! *Supresses your craving for smoking, AND Eating! *Significant Smoking Reduction in just 48 hours! *Your system detoxified & Nicotine-Free in 7 days! *The Patch Works Only 22% of the Time *The Gum Works Only 6% Of The Time *A percentage of each sale Donated To Project DARE! click on the link below to learn more about Kick-It http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/nocig/ To be removed from our mailing list click whitehores7 at Hotmail.com and place remove in the subject From jim.burnes at ssds.com Mon Dec 7 09:45:15 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:45:15 +0800 Subject: Anguilla attached to Wassenar Agr? Message-ID: Since Anguilla is a UK protectorate, is it subject to Wassenar Agreement rules if the UK is a signatory? Anyone care to predict the next big crypto exporter? Brazil? Chile? Argentina? Columbia? Tonga? ;-) jim From I.Brown at cs.ucl.ac.uk Mon Dec 7 09:59:22 1998 From: I.Brown at cs.ucl.ac.uk (Ian BROWN) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:59:22 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <000e01be200d$d7be9e10$8007a8c0@russell.internal> Message-ID: <24416.913050208@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: >In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is >one export zone for crypto control purposes. Unfortunately, not yet. The European Commission has proposed amending the Dual-Use regulations to allow the free circulation of crypto products among member states, while extending controls to 'intangible' goods (i.e. Internet downloads). Until then an export license is required. Licenses are granted more readily and with fewer conditions (e.g. permitted end uses) for exports to other EU nations and Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Norway, Switzerland and the US. Amazing the minutiae you have to trawl when co-authoring a paper on crypto export controls ;) Ian. From apf2 at apf2.com Mon Dec 7 10:07:54 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:07:54 +0800 Subject: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981207161424.006ae900@209.204.247.83> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1796 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Tue Dec 8 02:31:13 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:31:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Votes Message-ID: <802566D4.0039658A.06@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> I wonder how the good 'ol Beeb will handle loads of votes from non-uk people. Especially how will they cope with anonymous remailers. I know this is off-topic cypherpunks but lets indulge in a little gentle humour. ---------------------- Forwarded by Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE on 08/12/98 10:27 --------------------------- Hilary Davidson 08/12/98 10:24 To: UK BEC, UK Contractors BEC, Workfun cc: Subject: Votes This has to be done!! ---------------------- Forwarded by Hilary Davidson/UK/SSA_EUROPE on 08-12-98 10:23 AM --------------------------- "Ashley Lane" on 07-12-98 10:00:39 PM To: "Andy Randerson" , "Marcus Lane" , Hilary Davidson/UK/SSA_EUROPE, "Jonathan Cory" , "Jason Boxall" cc: Subject: Votes All, We are going to try to influence the result of the voting for BBC Sports Personality of the year. It has been decided that David Beckham would provide most embarrassment to the organisers if winning, so could you all e-mail your vote to the following address: sports.review at bbc.co.uk More importantly, can you forward this mail to all your mates & acquaintances asap in the hope that they will participate. Your co-operation in this matter is greatly appreciated ________________________________ The information contained in this electronic mail message is confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to receive it. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, dissemination or disclosure of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ From whgiii at openpgp.net Mon Dec 7 10:32:38 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:32:38 +0800 Subject: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations) Message-ID: <199812071632.LAA001.17@whgiii> In <3.0.3.32.19981207161424.006ae900 at 209.204.247.83>, on 12/07/98 at 12:17 PM, "Albert P. Franco, II" said: >Arial0000,0000,ffff Please set Eudora so it does not output this junk in your messages. tks, -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Dec 7 11:52:06 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 03:52:06 +0800 Subject: Corporate Mandarins and The Tyranny of *Hierarchy* Message-ID: <366C248D.2066@lsil.com> > This "sociological" analysis probably went over really well at a > touchy-feely corporate navel-gazing camp because it's more the way > some grey-flannel men *wish* they were, than the way they actually > are. > Take a look at the history of the Love Canal in Buffalo, NY or the tobacco industry and think about these as models of corporate behavior when you hire the exterminator to come onto your property to take care of some pesky ants and horribly nasty, dangerous spiders using "safe, environmentally sound" insecticides. The burden of proof is backwards all too often in evaluating the manner in which corporations treat their customers and their community. It sure looks like the corporate world has more than its fair share of major criminals to me: some of them firmly and respectably in place in Congress. They just don't hack little girls to pieces and bury them in the woods; they kill tens of thousands, slowly, and hide behind the finest suits and the sharpest lawyers. The quest for economic gain coupled with the blatant disregard for the health and safety of those around you is what is meant by hyperindividualism. It's simply greed coupled with sociopathy. Describing this as an offshoot of 20th century liberalism is way beyond me. > or even "criminals" like Rockefeller ... > This is well off-thread but I saw a movie clip of John D. from the mid 40's where he was at a podium being fingerprinted as a publicity bit to promote the FBI's policy of trying to fingerprint all Americans. Nothing new under the sun eh? Mike From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 12:06:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 04:06:45 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:07 AM -0500 on 12/7/98, Trei, Peter wrote: > I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities > which have grown recently in arid areas, would > have a lot more trouble. Actually, Mulholland knew what gravity was, as well. :-). Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 12:18:15 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 04:18:15 +0800 Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:05:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jay D. Dyson" To: Cryptography List Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd) Organization: NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory X-No-Archive: yes X-PGP-Notice: E-mail me for my PGP Public Key. X-Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of NASA/JPL/Caltech. X-To-Spammer: Spamming a U.S. Government institution will only get you a $500 per incident fine. MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Courtesy of Defcon Stuff. (Do I hear jackboots in the night? 'Deed I do!) Sorry, Uncle Sam. I'm a fan of cryptography, not crippletography. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:45:17 +0100 From: "boo at datashopper.dk" To: dc-stuff at dis.org Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail Hi This is a true story. Denmark now - along with the whole EU - has assimilated US-crypto laws. I just had a phone conversation with the danish ministry of commerce, the export control division. The kind lady I spoke to threatened me with fines or jail for up to two years. For having PGP for free download on my homepage! I called the division to hear about the Wassenaar arrangement on export-restrictions on strong crypto and its consequences. So I ask this lady something like: I have this strong crypto program called PGP on my homepage. What should I do. Does this Wassenaar arrangement concern me? 'It sure does', she replies, and start to ask a lot of questions about my homepage - does it have unlimited global access etc. And then she says: 'You better take it down', and starts to reiterate the legal aspects, e.g. two laws from EU on export restrictions. Specifically she points out the penal code: Fines. Jail. So... I'm _not_ going to take down PGP voluntarily. Otoh I'm going to SHOUT this out loud. (I have already contacted two members of parliament and will start calling all 179 later today.) Lets see what happens... - -- Boo PI = int a=10000,b,c=2800,d,e,f[2801],g;main(){for(;b-c;)f[b++]=a/5; for(;d=0,g=c*2;c-=14,printf("%.4d",e+d/a),e=d%a)for(b=c;d+=f[b]*a, f[b]=d%--g,d/=g--,--b;d*=b);} -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNmv8uLl5qZylQQm1AQGYPQQAhDs8XfKRLD0ECTO5LuF1iA+0Yr7B9Yon CAnKwZYAk07BYG2u/xuFEsU/xdoNTap+lVmWEwciREPL+wjF/hSWeq+/YP6uwpCb 9pkoXkMst2NnFQ6744GTYiRJMQPc4no6aaDzWwO4FnMjyIzUpD4kBPkh0MHutCAF PyXXbstG1z8= =ByGn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From petro at playboy.com Mon Dec 7 13:36:03 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:36:03 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu> Message-ID: At 10:10 AM -0500 12/5/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >In <36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 > at 10:07 AM, Michal Hohensee said: > >>Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might >>last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, >>we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the >>cities die. > >And you say this as if it is a bad thing. When the cities start dying, their population--hungry and diseased--is heading your way. Some of them armed. Some ex-soldiers, some ex-cops. You may be badder than most of them, but are you good enough to kill them all? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Mon Dec 7 13:37:59 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:37:59 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu> Message-ID: At 3:09 PM -0500 12/6/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >Large metropolitan complexes are obsolete and their problems greatly >outweigh their benefits. I am a land owner and *like* owning land, I enjoy >having grass and trees, streams to fish and swim in, not living in a cage >with my neighbors on the other side of a paper thin wall. I have enough >land that I could plow it up and do subsistence farming to survive if the >collapse ever comes (subsidized with fishing and hunting). > >Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me. All night grocery stores within walking distance. Ready access to work and entertainment. 10 different "ethnicities" of restraunts within walking distance (if you consider "all night diner" to be an "ethnicity"). Decent Mass Transit. Very little Country Music on the radio, and NO hog reports. Oh, and I haven't owned a car in 6 years. I don't really _like_ living in Chicago, but I'd like living in the middle of BFE even less. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Mon Dec 7 13:39:17 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:39:17 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions] In-Reply-To: <199812042341.RAA18742@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: At 9:10 AM -0500 12/5/98, Soren wrote: >Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >> Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for >> survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. >> For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, >> you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other >> clothes. >This is a good one. What about the other half of American life (the >uncivilized?). You know, the americans who live in those old >refrigerator cartons? The ones that nobody sees? I think they get more >than 2 weeks out of their shirts. >The sad fact is that city brats haven't got the faintest idea what >survival is all about (you mean I have to *walk* to the supermarket?). >It was in the 1890's when Queen Victoria issued an edict that forced all >the english to 'bathe at least once a year'. >Sit back and enjoy the carnival. What was tbe average life expectancy in Victorian England? Those "other half" (more like other .05%) who live in refridgerator cartons regularly clog up ER's with gangrenous wounds, stinking of filth and decay. They tend not to live too long like that. Many of them also get a hot shower at least once a week from a homeless shelter. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From declan at well.com Mon Dec 7 14:00:05 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:00:05 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981205220239.006a17c8@209.204.247.83> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981207142627.00c9eb30@mail.well.com> Many libertarians would not object if local state law punished rapists or burglars by sending them to prison with labor requirements. So if it is an acceptable punishment in principle, the question then becomes who should qualify. The problem with Tim's analysis is that if we extend the punishment to anyone who's benefited from government tax-n-spending that libertarians oppose, it's hard to find anyone *not* to put in the workcamp. Anyone who takes advantage of public transportation (like the Metro here in DC), or federally-funded interstates, etc. could conceivably qualify. And what about all those folks with unconstitutional federal student loans? And fundamental fairness principles suggest that punishment should not be limited to welfare for individuals. Why shouldn't corporate welfare qualify? Tim owns substantial shares of Intel Corp. stock, and Intel is a prime beneficiary of corporate welfare. Check out last month's Time magazine cover story at: http://www.time.com/magazine Should just the directors of Intel, or also the shareholder owners be punished? A more moderate approach that seems more logically consistent might be to limit punishment to state actors and agents (assuming you agree with this concept of vengeance to begin with). There's a big difference between an FBI agent engaging in what he might occasionally suspect to be unconstitutional searches and busts and someone who picks up an occasional unemployment check. -Declan At 10:02 PM 12-5-98 +0100, Albert P. Franco, II wrote: >Tim must be having a "bad hair" day. He actually mentioned sending people >to Labor Camps. That sounds so UN-Libertarian, I have to chuckle. I'm >chuckling because I wouldn't want to think you actually believe in this >very Hitleresque rant. > >Or is some FED spoofing Tim and sending "threatening" material in his name? >In which case...lock and load, Tim. They're coming to get you! > >APF > >>and, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance >>libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as: >> >>"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed >>laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your >>military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can >>forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback >>time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians, >>cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time. >>Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen, >>with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps. >>Payback time." >> >> >>--Tim May >> > From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Mon Dec 7 14:15:31 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:15:31 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions Message-ID: Sure he did. However, geography was not accomodating, and there is at least one point where a major aqueduct is pumped over a ridge. Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Hettinga [SMTP:rah at shipwright.com] > At 11:07 AM -0500 on 12/7/98, Trei, Peter wrote: > > I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities > > which have grown recently in arid areas, would > > have a lot more trouble. > > Actually, Mulholland knew what gravity was, as well. :-). > > Cheers, > Robert Hettinga > From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 8 06:48:55 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:48:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: Last spam on this subject. The rest is up to you. Cheers, Robert Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: jya at pop.pipeline.com Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 09:09:04 -0500 To: cypherpunks at EINSTEIN.ssz.com From: John Young Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks at ssz.com X-Loop: ssz.com X-Language: English, Russian, German Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Precedence: first-class Reply-To: John Young X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net In response to John Gilmore's call for a foil to US-Wassenaar restrictions acoming, we've put up a preliminary list of international cryptography sources for mirroring: http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm This is a quick starter-kit and is far from comprehensive. Contributions welcome. Ken Williams offers an impressive (177MB) crypto/stego archive: http://www.genocide2600.com/~tattooman/cryptography/ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 15:17:38 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 07:17:38 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar and the dumming of New Zealand Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Blair Anderson" To: "Robert Hettinga" Date: Tue, 08 Dec 98 10:13:56 +1300 Reply-To: "Blair Anderson" Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Wassenaar and the dumming of New Zealand See Peter Gutmens contribution at http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/. NZ's very peculiar interpretation of Wassenaar "Export Control Myths and Facts", http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/myths.html. Its a rich source of matter on the subject. Cheers Blair Anderson (Blair at technologist.com) International Consultant in Electronic Commerce, Encryption and Electronic Rights Management "Techno Junk and Grey Matter" 50 Wainoni Road, Christchurch, New Zealand phone 64 3 3894065 fax 64 3 3894065 Member Digital Commerce Society of Boston, Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, ---------------------------- Caught in the Net for 25 years ---------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 15:47:29 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 07:47:29 +0800 Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah at pop.sneaker.net Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:02:59 -0500 To: dcsb at ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce at ai.mit.edu From: Robert Hettinga Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Cc: Ira Heffan , Mike Schmelzer , Roland Mueller , "Jonathan J. Rusch" Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Tuesday, January 5th, 1999 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA Although the very idea of patenting software seems to be an anathema to much of the programming community, patents on software continue to stream out of the U.S. Patent Office. Everyone involved in digital commerce applications, which are by definition software-based, probably has heard about recent events: The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit decided "State Street Bank & Trust Co. v. Signature Financial Group," which explicitly ratified patenting methods of doing business, and a spate of well-publicized patents have issued claiming to cover such concepts as the virtual shopping cart and the reverse auction. As a prerequisite to discussing these recent developments, the first part of our talk will provide an introduction to patents. We will explain what patents are and what they are not, and describe the business goals that a patent can serve. Then we will talk about current events, and attempt to put the _State Street_ case in context. We will present a survey of recently-issued patents (suggestions welcome) related to digital commerce, and conclude with some speculation about current trends, including a novel form of software patent with potentially huge implications. Ira Heffan (heffan at tht.com) and Mike Schmelzer (schmelze at tht.com) are patent attorneys at Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP (http://www.tht.com). We will be presenting our own personal views on this topic, and not the views of Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP or its clients. This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, January 5, 1999, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and the speakers' lunch. The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code. We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, January 2nd, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Upcoming speakers for DCSB are: February Roland Mueller European Privacy Directive March Jonathan Rusch Internet Fraud We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, . For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to . We look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNmwX/8UCGwxmWcHhAQFfjgf+IBe01g9XCldZYT+GRDI5ho1sOPgL6W7q zLDQToz0GGM/NZzv44SMTSGpDFx80R1yautvy4xHMnYQy2UnvO2WGsfrjuwSdQte 8qxoRAFkihyP/mi/83As2TwWdp6QhwbjI02hyP6elsdSzsspflwwonOB4I+8E/xX UDsGdQH4AHaWrK1S5XYfJSHSRGOBpk2+cqboiGvbcbC1z0vDRGrnztf8GADoPVC3 6vw4M00f+cgIuoaqqO4ol62Os6D+WPVw2NMop20OD62EGzYO2pyQjboPvBLxyRD7 smLz/4S598uLZF0GX+GO/8rCjAORask/Qt3SFIU2HMMPj9nKIvVtJw== =gz6w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From weidai at eskimo.com Mon Dec 7 16:12:21 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:12:21 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol In-Reply-To: <199812051937.TAA12780@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <19981207152017.A29919@eskimo.com> On Sun, Dec 06, 1998 at 12:08:04AM +0000, Adam Back wrote: > (2) Borrowing resources -- a student with access to a campus full of > workstations can obtain quite a bit of free CPU time. If a problem can be solved on a network of computers for free, then by definition broadcasting the solution to that problem won't create any money. B-money mints will need to solve problems that can't be parallelized well on low-bandwidth networks in order to prove that they're not using free idle time of network computers. I'm not sure if such a problem class exists, however. I think this problem will probably become less serious in the future as people discover more productive uses of idle computer time. > (7) If such a system took off there seems to be an overhead equivalent > to the value of b-money in circulation which over time has essentially > been burnt off in disipated heat, and useless hardware. But probably > the cost is still much lower than the enormous costs involved in > maintaining a force monopoly to enforce traceable transactions. I now tend to think that the government monopoly of force is a net benefit. If you look at countries where the government doesn't have a monopoly of force (like Russia) things look pretty bleak. Anyway, back on topic. The resource waste in creating b-money can be reduced if we assume that b-money will be created gradually as the b-money economy expands rather than all at once at the beginning. If we build a deflation factor into b-money, b-money will be worth more over time and therefore not as much b-money will be needed to support the operation of the economy. This can be accomplished by specifying that the standard basket used to define the creation of b-money grow at a fixed rate over time. But of course deflation also has costs since it makes comparing prices across time more difficult. I think b-money will at most be a niche currency/contract enforcement mechanism, serving those who don't want to or can't use government sponsored ones. However if it did become mainstream I think there are some interesting macroeconomic questions here. Will prices really be stable as they're designed to be? Will there be business cycles? What is the optimum inflation/deflation rate? From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Dec 7 16:25:18 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:25:18 +0800 Subject: linux-gpib licensing (fwd) Message-ID: <199812080001.SAA07092@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From llp-owner at obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de Mon Dec 7 17:59:05 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de: majordomo set sender to owner-llp using -f Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:48:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Danny G. Holstein" To: Claus Schroeter Subject: Re: linux-gpib licensing Cc: llp at obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de, James Minyard Sender: owner-llp at obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de Precedence: bulk On 01-Dec-98 Claus Schroeter wrote: >On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, James Minyard wrote: > >> >> I was wondering if you would consider changing the license for the >> libgpib portion of the linux-gpib distribution from GPL to LGPL. >> I'd like to register my thoughts here. I believe the best model to how the GPL can work is how Apache and IBM handled it. IBM wanted to include the server with a system, they were willing to pay but there was no one to pay, in the end, they paid with the only currency that would work, namely, IBM added some code to the Apache server and was allowed to inlude it with their system. Stick with GPL. No one should be able to sell the work of another person as his own, with GPL, one is assured that the cost of using a code is merely that of returning improvements to the code. ...Dan ------- To get more information on the Linux-Lab Project see: http://www.llp.fu-berlin.de/ From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 7 16:33:24 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:33:24 +0800 Subject: Wiretap Operation Sheds Light on LAPD Tactics Message-ID: <199812072323.AAA32006@replay.com> If it is Monday, December 7, 1998, you can go to http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/topstory.html and read about how Los Angeles police wiretapped a small cellular phone service provider because his policies were too helpful for drug dealers. He didn't try hard enough to verify customer names, he sold cell phones with built in scramblers, he allowed customers to change phones and numbers easily. After years of investigation the company owners were never charged, but a number of their customers were convicted as drug dealers, in many cases never being told about the phone taps. It's an ominous account of how privacy-friendly policies can be used by the police to justify an investigation. If it's after December 7, read the story here: : Los Angeles narcotics officers spent a lot of time spying on John : Lopez and his small storefront telephone company--Atel Cellular : Convinced he was in cahoots with drug dealers by selling secure, : cop-proof phone service--no questions asked--they staked out his : Downey office, tailed his customers and finally wiretapped the : customers' and Atel's phones. : Starting with just his business lines and a handful of customers, : the operation spread like kudzu, eventually covering hundreds of : phones and thousands of conversations and becoming the largest wiretap : operation in the history of Los Angeles County. : When the three-year probe ended in March, police had arrested : dozens of Atel's customers, but not Lopez or any of his employees. : The Atel taps are at the center of the nine-month legal : controversy over whether prosecutors have been improperly concealing : their wiretapping operation and the information derived from it. Also : at issue are charges by defense lawyers representing Atel customers : that the allegations against Atel Cellular are a sham created to win : court orders permitting an electronic fishing expedition against their : clients. : Manager Lopez and Atel's owner, Atil Nath, refused to : comment. Their lawyers say the two men are not involved in drugs. : "The whole concept [of the police wiretap operation] was : preposterous," said Dale Hardeman, a Downey attorney. "How are we : supposed to know if customers are involved in criminal activity?" : Details of the probe--revealed through interviews, police : affidavits, wire monitor logs and volumes of court records--provide a : fascinating inside look at how detectives can mold the legal actions : of a suspect into criminal scenarios and persuade judges to authorize : snooping on people's private conversations. : The probe also raises broader questions, such as whether many of : the reasons given for tapping Atel could just as easily be applied to : other phone companies, and whether wiretaps should be allowed to : continue indefinitely, even when police work for months without : finding enough evidence to arrest the target. : The 4th Amendment protects phone privacy. : : Need for Probable Cause : : To tap a phone, prosecutors have to get a court order by showing : they have sufficient reason, known as probable cause, to believe the : phone subscriber is committing crimes. Even if a subscriber's actions : are legal when considered individually, those actions can amount to : probable cause when viewed as part of a larger picture. : If a tap provides a lead or evidence, prosecutors must reveal the : tap and give transcripts to the defendant before trial. : Though the Atel investigation established strong suspicion among : investigators that Lopez knew he was dealing with drug traffickers, it : fell far short of proving it. But police were getting a steady supply : of leads against his customers as well as new phone numbers of people : they considered suspicious. So they kept going back to court for : extensions and new taps. : Police referred all questions about the case to prosecutors, who : defend the wiretap practice, saying they had sufficient evidence to : suspect Lopez of wrongdoing. : Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti noted in a prepared statement that the : operation had court approval. He said police targeted Atel because : they believed most of its business was providing phones to drug : dealers without requiring them to provide any personal information. : Superior Court Judge John Ouderkirk, who approved most of the : orders, said he could not discuss pending cases. : Not much is known about Lopez and Nath. Nath lives in a two-story : home in a neat, well-kept neighborhood in Downey. Lopez lives in Pico : Rivera with his wife, Maria, and their children. Both have said in : court papers that they have no criminal record. Their company is one : of about three dozen small phone companies in Los Angeles County that : resell or sublease service and equipment. : Police say the closest they came to showing a direct connection : between Lopez and drugs was during a stakeout at his home when they : saw a man arrive in a pickup truck registered to a member of what they : say is a drug gang. : The investigation grew out of, and, in many ways, was modeled : after a 1994 wiretap of Downey Communications, another small retailer : of phone services. As in the Atel probe, police staked out the : business and collected information for wiretap orders. : During hours of surveillance, they watched customers arrive and : leave. They noticed the types of vehicles they drove. They even took : notes on their manner of dress, eventually deciding that silk floral : shirts, pressed denim, hand-stitched leather belts and expensive : cowboys boots were haute couture on the L.A. drug scene. : Police claimed that Downey leased to drug dealers and was : "heavily involved in the sale and transportation of narcotics." : Officers would later use the same language in Atel affidavits. : The Downey wiretaps lasted a year. They ended in drug and cash : seizures and 12 indictments, including one against the brother of : Downey's owner. But the owners and employees of Downey were not : arrested. The owner said in court papers he was never interviewed by : police, was not aware of the investigation and has never been charged : with a crime. : Police used the Downey Communications probe as a springboard to : Atel. : The connection was tenuous. Downey and Atel customers shared the : same taste in cars and fashion. Downey employees were seen paying : short visits to Delta Tri-Telesis, a now-defunct cellular phone : business owned by Nath and operated by Lopez. : So in September 1995, officers turned their binoculars on Atel, : which had taken Delta's customers. They often saw customers in cars : registered to targets of previous drug probes going to houses once : used as drug "stash" sites and employing what police considered : "counter-surveillance" driving. : : Reports on Surveillance : : Investigators say they saw Lopez use such techniques when they : were tailing him in May 1996, shortly before they started tapping his : business phones. They said they saw him on the freeway changing lanes : erratically and driving "at a high rate of speed in excess of 70 miles : per hour," later making a U-turn on Arrington Avenue and lingering too : long--three minutes--at an intersection. : Police also noted in affidavits that Lopez sold money counters : and phone scramblers; that he apparently didn't care if customers gave : him fictitious names; that he let customers change numbers quickly and : easily. : Drug suspects were frequently found with Atel phones. : Police saw what they considered suspicious calling patterns--too : many calls in a short period of time--among groups of Atel customers. : Although such evidence was far from enough to file charges : against Lopez and Nath, legal experts say it was sufficient as : probable cause for a court order, which was granted in May 1996 for 30 : days. : After a month of wiretapping, Garcetti's prosecutors--armed with : transcripts of tapped phone conversations--were back in court asking : for the first extension of the court order and for permission to tap : new telephone numbers. From then on, requests for extensions built on : previous ones. Police eventually received 19 extensions. : Although the taps provided a mother lode of leads against drug : dealers, they seldom offered much evidence against Atel. There was one : conversation that police described in an affidavit as particularly : damning for Lopez. It was on June 25, 1996, from "Oscar," who had been : under police surveillance. : "Hey John, this number is no good," Oscar tells Lopez. : Lopez: Not good? : Oscar: They're on me again! Right behind. : Lopez: OK, bring it in now! : But most of Lopez's conversations in the affidavits simply : confirmed what police already knew: that customers dealt directly with : Lopez, that Lopez based billing records on phone numbers instead of : names and that he handled billing arrangements by phone. : In contrast, the conversations among customers were : fruitful. Most were cryptic discussions about drug deals, pickup : locations, delivery times, police said. According to investigators, : they never mentioned drugs, using words such as "ladies," "stuff" or : simply a number understood to be an amount of drugs. : For example, in June 1996, police overheard this exchange: : Receiver: How do they look? : Caller: Real good. How many do you have? : Receiver: 40 plus 5 out, plus some lying around. : Caller: OK. I'll hold whatever else I have. : Without interpretation by detectives, there is little indication : that that conversation is about drugs. : By the time the operation ended in March, police had tapped close : to 400 Atel phones. : The wiretap controversy erupted that month because San Diego : attorney Philip DeMassa and two other lawyers discovered that the case : against their clients sprang from information garnered from the Atel : taps and handed off to other officers who were not told of the taps so : they would not have to reveal them to defense lawyers. Later, Deputy : Public Defender Kathy Quant went to court for indigent defendants. : Garcetti acknowledged in June that he withheld tap information in : 58 cases and he agreed to notify defendants about future taps. : Although a judge upheld the wiretap handoff practice last month, with : some qualifications, Quant is considering an appeal. Other defense : lawyers are challenging whether Garcetti has revealed all tap cases. : Whatever the outcome, the probe clearly helped police arrest some : of Atel's customers. It netted large amounts of narcotics, about $8 : million in drug proceeds and dozens of arrests. : Lawyers base their doubts about the investigation of Nath and : Lopez partially on the fact that it lasted three years and police : never tried to interview them. In fact, DeMassa alleges in court : papers that Lopez and Nath are actually police informants or are : perhaps cooperating through a grant of immunity from prosecution, an : assertion prosecutors call absurd. : DeMassa is hoping to show that police misled the courts when they : said they were investigating Lopez and Nath. : If Nath and Lopez were such an integral part of a gigantic drug : trafficking operation, the police should be trying to protect the : public from them, he said. : "Why isn't anything happening to these guys?" he said. : : Acts Were Not Illegal, Critics Say : : None of Atel's acts described in the affidavits was illegal, : Quant and other critics say. Well-known phone companies engage in : many of the same practices, Quant said. If police use the same : standards elsewhere, any companies, especially small retailers, may be : vulnerable to taps. : Many of the actions cited in Atel affidavits are suspicious only : in the eyes of police, Quant said. Money counters are legitimate, and : other firms advertise "no eavesdropping" cell phones because : legitimate businesses need secure communications, she said. : There is nothing suspicious, for example, about high usage of : cell phones, particularly among real estate agents, salespeople, even : news reporters, Quant said. And other small retailers allow people to : change numbers frequently. : Regardless of Atel's guilt or innocence, what police did to Atel : could be done to any legitimate businesses, she said. : Deputy Dist. Atty. Robert Schirn dismissed that notion. : "That's quite a stretch," he said. : "Atel was a facilitator and made it possible for drug dealers to : break the law," he said. : Yet Schirn acknowledged that he could not point to any conclusive : evidence that Nath and Lopez knew that some of their customers were : drug dealers. : He said he didn't know if police tried to persuade defendants to : testify against Nath or Lopez. Even if they did, prosecutors would : need more evidence than the tainted testimony of accomplices to make : an arrest, he said. : As for Atel, Hardeman said his clients had no idea some of their : customers were criminals. : "This investigation has virtually destroyed them," he said. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Mon Dec 7 16:52:11 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:52:11 +0800 Subject: Wiretap Operation Sheds Light on LAPD Tactics In-Reply-To: <199812072323.AAA32006@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812072344.RAA29429@manifold.algebra.com> Anonymous wrote: > > > If it is Monday, December 7, 1998, you can go to > http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/topstory.html and read about how > Los Angeles police wiretapped a small cellular phone service provider > because his policies were too helpful for drug dealers. He didn't try > hard enough to verify customer names, he sold cell phones with built in > scramblers, he allowed customers to change phones and numbers easily. > After years of investigation the company owners were never charged, > but a number of their customers were convicted as drug dealers, in many > cases never being told about the phone taps. > > It's an ominous account of how privacy-friendly policies can be used by > the police to justify an investigation. I am curious if the whole provider was just a front for the law enforcement. igor > If it's after December 7, read the story here: > > : Los Angeles narcotics officers spent a lot of time spying on John > : Lopez and his small storefront telephone company--Atel Cellular > : Convinced he was in cahoots with drug dealers by selling secure, > : cop-proof phone service--no questions asked--they staked out his > : Downey office, tailed his customers and finally wiretapped the > : customers' and Atel's phones. > : Starting with just his business lines and a handful of customers, > : the operation spread like kudzu, eventually covering hundreds of > : phones and thousands of conversations and becoming the largest wiretap > : operation in the history of Los Angeles County. > : When the three-year probe ended in March, police had arrested > : dozens of Atel's customers, but not Lopez or any of his employees. > : The Atel taps are at the center of the nine-month legal > : controversy over whether prosecutors have been improperly concealing > : their wiretapping operation and the information derived from it. Also > : at issue are charges by defense lawyers representing Atel customers > : that the allegations against Atel Cellular are a sham created to win > : court orders permitting an electronic fishing expedition against their > : clients. > : Manager Lopez and Atel's owner, Atil Nath, refused to > : comment. Their lawyers say the two men are not involved in drugs. > : "The whole concept [of the police wiretap operation] was > : preposterous," said Dale Hardeman, a Downey attorney. "How are we > : supposed to know if customers are involved in criminal activity?" > : Details of the probe--revealed through interviews, police > : affidavits, wire monitor logs and volumes of court records--provide a > : fascinating inside look at how detectives can mold the legal actions > : of a suspect into criminal scenarios and persuade judges to authorize > : snooping on people's private conversations. > : The probe also raises broader questions, such as whether many of > : the reasons given for tapping Atel could just as easily be applied to > : other phone companies, and whether wiretaps should be allowed to > : continue indefinitely, even when police work for months without > : finding enough evidence to arrest the target. > : The 4th Amendment protects phone privacy. > : > : Need for Probable Cause > : > : To tap a phone, prosecutors have to get a court order by showing > : they have sufficient reason, known as probable cause, to believe the > : phone subscriber is committing crimes. Even if a subscriber's actions > : are legal when considered individually, those actions can amount to > : probable cause when viewed as part of a larger picture. > : If a tap provides a lead or evidence, prosecutors must reveal the > : tap and give transcripts to the defendant before trial. > : Though the Atel investigation established strong suspicion among > : investigators that Lopez knew he was dealing with drug traffickers, it > : fell far short of proving it. But police were getting a steady supply > : of leads against his customers as well as new phone numbers of people > : they considered suspicious. So they kept going back to court for > : extensions and new taps. > : Police referred all questions about the case to prosecutors, who > : defend the wiretap practice, saying they had sufficient evidence to > : suspect Lopez of wrongdoing. > : Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti noted in a prepared statement that the > : operation had court approval. He said police targeted Atel because > : they believed most of its business was providing phones to drug > : dealers without requiring them to provide any personal information. > : Superior Court Judge John Ouderkirk, who approved most of the > : orders, said he could not discuss pending cases. > : Not much is known about Lopez and Nath. Nath lives in a two-story > : home in a neat, well-kept neighborhood in Downey. Lopez lives in Pico > : Rivera with his wife, Maria, and their children. Both have said in > : court papers that they have no criminal record. Their company is one > : of about three dozen small phone companies in Los Angeles County that > : resell or sublease service and equipment. > : Police say the closest they came to showing a direct connection > : between Lopez and drugs was during a stakeout at his home when they > : saw a man arrive in a pickup truck registered to a member of what they > : say is a drug gang. > : The investigation grew out of, and, in many ways, was modeled > : after a 1994 wiretap of Downey Communications, another small retailer > : of phone services. As in the Atel probe, police staked out the > : business and collected information for wiretap orders. > : During hours of surveillance, they watched customers arrive and > : leave. They noticed the types of vehicles they drove. They even took > : notes on their manner of dress, eventually deciding that silk floral > : shirts, pressed denim, hand-stitched leather belts and expensive > : cowboys boots were haute couture on the L.A. drug scene. > : Police claimed that Downey leased to drug dealers and was > : "heavily involved in the sale and transportation of narcotics." > : Officers would later use the same language in Atel affidavits. > : The Downey wiretaps lasted a year. They ended in drug and cash > : seizures and 12 indictments, including one against the brother of > : Downey's owner. But the owners and employees of Downey were not > : arrested. The owner said in court papers he was never interviewed by > : police, was not aware of the investigation and has never been charged > : with a crime. > : Police used the Downey Communications probe as a springboard to > : Atel. > : The connection was tenuous. Downey and Atel customers shared the > : same taste in cars and fashion. Downey employees were seen paying > : short visits to Delta Tri-Telesis, a now-defunct cellular phone > : business owned by Nath and operated by Lopez. > : So in September 1995, officers turned their binoculars on Atel, > : which had taken Delta's customers. They often saw customers in cars > : registered to targets of previous drug probes going to houses once > : used as drug "stash" sites and employing what police considered > : "counter-surveillance" driving. > : > : Reports on Surveillance > : > : Investigators say they saw Lopez use such techniques when they > : were tailing him in May 1996, shortly before they started tapping his > : business phones. They said they saw him on the freeway changing lanes > : erratically and driving "at a high rate of speed in excess of 70 miles > : per hour," later making a U-turn on Arrington Avenue and lingering too > : long--three minutes--at an intersection. > : Police also noted in affidavits that Lopez sold money counters > : and phone scramblers; that he apparently didn't care if customers gave > : him fictitious names; that he let customers change numbers quickly and > : easily. > : Drug suspects were frequently found with Atel phones. > : Police saw what they considered suspicious calling patterns--too > : many calls in a short period of time--among groups of Atel customers. > : Although such evidence was far from enough to file charges > : against Lopez and Nath, legal experts say it was sufficient as > : probable cause for a court order, which was granted in May 1996 for 30 > : days. > : After a month of wiretapping, Garcetti's prosecutors--armed with > : transcripts of tapped phone conversations--were back in court asking > : for the first extension of the court order and for permission to tap > : new telephone numbers. From then on, requests for extensions built on > : previous ones. Police eventually received 19 extensions. > : Although the taps provided a mother lode of leads against drug > : dealers, they seldom offered much evidence against Atel. There was one > : conversation that police described in an affidavit as particularly > : damning for Lopez. It was on June 25, 1996, from "Oscar," who had been > : under police surveillance. > : "Hey John, this number is no good," Oscar tells Lopez. > : Lopez: Not good? > : Oscar: They're on me again! Right behind. > : Lopez: OK, bring it in now! > : But most of Lopez's conversations in the affidavits simply > : confirmed what police already knew: that customers dealt directly with > : Lopez, that Lopez based billing records on phone numbers instead of > : names and that he handled billing arrangements by phone. > : In contrast, the conversations among customers were > : fruitful. Most were cryptic discussions about drug deals, pickup > : locations, delivery times, police said. According to investigators, > : they never mentioned drugs, using words such as "ladies," "stuff" or > : simply a number understood to be an amount of drugs. > : For example, in June 1996, police overheard this exchange: > : Receiver: How do they look? > : Caller: Real good. How many do you have? > : Receiver: 40 plus 5 out, plus some lying around. > : Caller: OK. I'll hold whatever else I have. > : Without interpretation by detectives, there is little indication > : that that conversation is about drugs. > : By the time the operation ended in March, police had tapped close > : to 400 Atel phones. > : The wiretap controversy erupted that month because San Diego > : attorney Philip DeMassa and two other lawyers discovered that the case > : against their clients sprang from information garnered from the Atel > : taps and handed off to other officers who were not told of the taps so > : they would not have to reveal them to defense lawyers. Later, Deputy > : Public Defender Kathy Quant went to court for indigent defendants. > : Garcetti acknowledged in June that he withheld tap information in > : 58 cases and he agreed to notify defendants about future taps. > : Although a judge upheld the wiretap handoff practice last month, with > : some qualifications, Quant is considering an appeal. Other defense > : lawyers are challenging whether Garcetti has revealed all tap cases. > : Whatever the outcome, the probe clearly helped police arrest some > : of Atel's customers. It netted large amounts of narcotics, about $8 > : million in drug proceeds and dozens of arrests. > : Lawyers base their doubts about the investigation of Nath and > : Lopez partially on the fact that it lasted three years and police > : never tried to interview them. In fact, DeMassa alleges in court > : papers that Lopez and Nath are actually police informants or are > : perhaps cooperating through a grant of immunity from prosecution, an > : assertion prosecutors call absurd. > : DeMassa is hoping to show that police misled the courts when they > : said they were investigating Lopez and Nath. > : If Nath and Lopez were such an integral part of a gigantic drug > : trafficking operation, the police should be trying to protect the > : public from them, he said. > : "Why isn't anything happening to these guys?" he said. > : > : Acts Were Not Illegal, Critics Say > : > : None of Atel's acts described in the affidavits was illegal, > : Quant and other critics say. Well-known phone companies engage in > : many of the same practices, Quant said. If police use the same > : standards elsewhere, any companies, especially small retailers, may be > : vulnerable to taps. > : Many of the actions cited in Atel affidavits are suspicious only > : in the eyes of police, Quant said. Money counters are legitimate, and > : other firms advertise "no eavesdropping" cell phones because > : legitimate businesses need secure communications, she said. > : There is nothing suspicious, for example, about high usage of > : cell phones, particularly among real estate agents, salespeople, even > : news reporters, Quant said. And other small retailers allow people to > : change numbers frequently. > : Regardless of Atel's guilt or innocence, what police did to Atel > : could be done to any legitimate businesses, she said. > : Deputy Dist. Atty. Robert Schirn dismissed that notion. > : "That's quite a stretch," he said. > : "Atel was a facilitator and made it possible for drug dealers to > : break the law," he said. > : Yet Schirn acknowledged that he could not point to any conclusive > : evidence that Nath and Lopez knew that some of their customers were > : drug dealers. > : He said he didn't know if police tried to persuade defendants to > : testify against Nath or Lopez. Even if they did, prosecutors would > : need more evidence than the tainted testimony of accomplices to make > : an arrest, he said. > : As for Atel, Hardeman said his clients had no idea some of their > : customers were criminals. > : "This investigation has virtually destroyed them," he said. > - Igor. From tcmay at got.net Mon Dec 7 17:16:24 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:16:24 +0800 Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981205220239.006a17c8@209.204.247.83> Message-ID: At 11:36 AM -0800 12/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Many libertarians would not object if local state law punished rapists or >burglars by sending them to prison with labor requirements. > >So if it is an acceptable punishment in principle, the question then >becomes who should qualify. > >The problem with Tim's analysis is that if we extend the punishment to >anyone who's benefited from government tax-n-spending that libertarians >oppose, it's hard to find anyone *not* to put in the workcamp. Anyone who >takes advantage of public transportation (like the Metro here in DC), or >federally-funded interstates, etc. could conceivably qualify. And what >about all those folks with unconstitutional federal student loans? Recall that I said I expected them to pay back what they took, with compounded interest. Only if they could not arrange a payback plan would their labor then be used. And surely credit would be given for what was taken out in other forms. Their indebtedness would be their benefits minus what they paid in. Thus, while I may be benefitting to the tune of, say, $2000 a year in the minimal services I ever use, the filling of potholes, etc., I am paying upwards of in federal, state, local, property, energy, sales, and other taxes. (I won't say what my taxes are, especially as they fluctuate wildly depending on financial transactions I've made, but they are vastly, vastly greater than any minimal benefits I get from government at any level.) This calculus applies at all levels. My point is not so much to propose that such a scheme actually be deployed, but to explain how some of us don't buy the "let's let bygones be bygones" approach. And why some of us will cheer when millions of ghetto maggots die in the firestorms of social chaos we expect. >And fundamental fairness principles suggest that punishment should not be >limited to welfare for individuals. Why shouldn't corporate welfare qualify? > >Tim owns substantial shares of Intel Corp. stock, and Intel is a prime >beneficiary of corporate welfare. Check out last month's Time magazine >cover story at: http://www.time.com/magazine > >Should just the directors of Intel, or also the shareholder owners be >punished? This is disingenuous nonsense, Declan! While there is little doubt that Intel, like all other large corporations, finds itself backed into these kinds of kickbacks (tax rebates, special education bonds, worker training reimbursements, etc.), these programs are unavoidable. And Intel most definitely pays more into the government than it ever gets out. So the city of Rio Rancho, NM, for example, offers to cut taxes for Intel for X years if Intel expands a plant. And so on. Is the promise to reduce robbery a benefit? (Especially considering what Intel is shelling out in taxes, employee salaries which are taxed at 39%, Social Security payroll taxes, etc.) And so on. No one could make an argument that when a Grand Accounting is done, that Intel has taken in more money from the government than it has paid into the government. (I could go on about Intel, and how it repeatedly turned down government contracts, and how it refused to participate for the longest time in government-sponsored research...until eventually the beancounters said that the company was being taxed to death and might as well get _some_ of its money back....) >A more moderate approach that seems more logically consistent might be to >limit punishment to state actors and agents (assuming you agree with this >concept of vengeance to begin with). There's a big difference between an >FBI agent engaging in what he might occasionally suspect to be >unconstitutional searches and busts and someone who picks up an occasional >unemployment check. Amount received from government - amount paid to government = Indebtedness (All calculated with normal accounting procedures, including the appropriate time value of money, interest rates, etc.) For most of us, Indebtedness = a negative number. We have paid in more than we have gotten back, by essentially any accounting of values. For those who have been collecting food stamps, welfare, AFDC, WICC, disability, etc. their entire lives, indebtedness = $1.3 million, or suchlike. Better get to moppin' dem floors, Levonda! And if they won't work to pay off their debts, let them begin starving immediately. --Tim May "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did." ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 7 17:41:41 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:41:41 +0800 Subject: (fwd) Markus Kuhn on eternity Message-ID: <199812080103.CAA09925@replay.com> Markus Kuhn writes: > The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of > such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people > who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server > infrastructure, and which are not. This administration is so far the > weak link in the Eternity Service concept, because whoever decides that > something is not spam takes over some responsibility for the content, > and is therefore subject to legal power of national powers. It would seem that it is the provider of the content, not the filterer, who is subject to legal authority. If I set up an open FTP site and allow anyone to post anything there, I can be legally forced to shut down once copyrighted software and child pornography appear. It has nothing to do with my filtering, it is my providing of the material that is objectionable. The Eternity concept has always been vague about exactly who is anonymous. There are many parties involved: the ones who submit material to the Eternity service; the ones who decide what material will go onto the service; the ones who own and maintain the machines which hold the material; the ones who receive requests for the material and supply it in response; the ones who request material and receive it. We need a more careful analysis of Eternity in terms of what levels of anonymity are possible and necessary for each of these roles. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Dec 7 18:12:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:12:53 +0800 Subject: What freedom means... [Register] Message-ID: <199812080149.TAA07468@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > The Register - http://www.theregister.co.uk > http://www.theregister.co.uk/981207-000006.html > IBM PC martyrs meet untimely end > Chinese smugglers of kit put to death > http://www.theregister.co.uk/981206-000003.html > Eurospook plan for Web and wireless bugs > If Enfopol 98 is genuine, the cops are getting seriously out of control [much deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From riburr at shentel.net Mon Dec 7 18:33:09 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:33:09 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <199812071331.IAA23674@smtp2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <366C8875.C8DC0A3C@shentel.net> John Young wrote: > Peter Gutmann may be close to the truth about Echelon's role > in the Wassenaar changes. > > The NYT reports today that the US is proposing to NATO a > combined intelligence center to combat use of Weapons of Mass > Destruction by rogue states and non-state terrorists like Usama > Bin Laden. [...] > The NYT has been running a series on how long the TLAs and military > have been tracking Usama Bin Laden (at least since 1991, maybe longer). > It appears that if he did not exist he would have to be invented for the > counterterrorism agenda. It's even possible that Bin Laden is their invention, > cultivated, strung along, not arrested, for that purpose. The African bombings > were probably preventable, and it will be interesting if Congress lets this > possibility go uninvestigated. It is a matter of record that the CIA vastly overestimated the wherewithal of the former Soviet military, much less economy. Was this done on purpose to justify opening the Capitol floodgates to float the USS United States, flagship of the lone superpower? Today's justification; third world sand fleas lighting paperbags full of dogshit and ringing the doorbell. Can't have pranksters disturbing our good neighborhood. Don't let children play with matches, and the US will organize the neighborhood watch. Meanwhile, the earth warms, storms ravage the tropics, glaciers recede, permafrost defrosts, icebergs the size of Delaware calve and castoff, and the warm earth sheds it's ozone like a sweater. Yeah, let's spend millions on Usama Bin Laden. Who's the captain of this fuckin' ship of fools? How do you spell democracy? M-U-T-I-N-Y. From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 7 19:32:58 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:32:58 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: cryptography at c2.net, gnu at toad.com Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800 From: John Gilmore Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones. As today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for publishing PGP on his web page. Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they threaten to erect. Today we depend on a small number of archives (in a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP, SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto tools that we use daily. Let's replicate these archives in many countries. I call for volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long as it's legal. (The Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.) And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your own citizens can get the tools. That'll still be better than the citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy! (I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else. That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten except you.) I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people will send him notices at jya at pipeline.com as your sites come up. (Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend on a single site.) Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it. And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives. John Gilmore --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Dec 7 19:47:23 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:47:23 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:38:55 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls > Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls > Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800 > From: John Gilmore > The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only > all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones. As > today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating > bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for > publishing PGP on his web page. And this is different from yesterday how? > Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong > crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they > threaten to erect. Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going up? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fnorky at chisp.net Mon Dec 7 20:20:04 1998 From: fnorky at chisp.net (Douglas L. Peterson) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:20:04 +0800 Subject: y2k/gary north delusions In-Reply-To: <199812062023.PAA001.79@whgiii> Message-ID: <366CAFEE.583BC1DE@chisp.net> William H. Geiger III wrote: > > In <366A26C2.30D6892E at nyu.edu>, on 12/06/98 > at 01:40 AM, Michael Hohensee said: > > >William H. Geiger III wrote: > >> > >> In <36694C23.B4CB9509 at nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 > >> at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee said: > >> > >> >Then we're back to doing it in the open. Less concentrated cities might > >> >last a while longer, but not much longer. There's no getting around it, > >> >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities. Otherwise, the > >> >cities die. > >> > >> And you say this as if it is a bad thing. > >> > > >Well it is, sorta. I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many > >many many other people. People who (like me) aren't particularly > >interested in dying of disease and/or starvation. If the "shit hits the > >fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/ > > It is your choice to live in the cesspool know as NYC. I am originally > from Chicago, I got the hell out of there the 1st chance I got and have > never looked back. I've been to Chicago exactly once. I went to the Sears Tower, and with the exception of the lake, *ALL* I could see was city and smog! I will not go back. > Large metropolitan complexes are obsolete and their problems greatly > outweigh their benefits. I am a land owner and *like* owning land, I enjoy > having grass and trees, streams to fish and swim in, not living in a cage > with my neighbors on the other side of a paper thin wall. I have enough > land that I could plow it up and do subsistence farming to survive if the > collapse ever comes (subsidized with fishing and hunting). My "cage" is in the suburbs, but I have to agree, it is still a cage. I can't wait to get my own land. > Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me. Some people are born and raised that way. They don't know anything else. And what they don't know, scares them. -Doug www.TheServerFarm.net From alan at clueserver.org Mon Dec 7 20:39:58 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:39:58 +0800 Subject: LA Times article on Wiretapping Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981207202040.042fb870@clueserver.org> Here is a link to the LA Times feature story on the LAPD's use of wiretaps. An interesting read. Expect such things from the rest of the constabulary when examined. http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/t000111718.html --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From geer at world.std.com Mon Dec 7 20:53:33 1998 From: geer at world.std.com (Dan Geer) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:53:33 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <366A2F3B.9A20B93A@netscape.com> Message-ID: <199812080428.AA19717@world.std.com> > What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is. Ah, but you forget that the definition of diplomacy is the art of lying in State. --dan From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 7 21:44:28 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:44:28 +0800 Subject: DSA for encryption Message-ID: <199812080525.GAA32479@replay.com> On Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:25:57 -0600, Bennett Haselton wrote: >I'm working on an enhancement to a Web-based program that allows you to >circumvent proxy server censorship by sending a request for a Web page to a >computer in the outside world that is not blocked by the proxy, and having >that computer re-send a copy of the banned page back to you. Good idea! >Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software >could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have >all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get >their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not >blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests >between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server. It may not be so easy to get people to set up port-forwarding programs. These could be a target for hackers seeking to cover their tracks as they try break-ins. Also, how many people in this day of commercial ISPs are able to set up port-forwarding programs? It would seem more promising to make your web page script be simple and portable enough that even users of AOL and free webpage hosts like GeoCities would be able to install it. >I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to >solve this problem. We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent >using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without >royalties, unlike, for example, RSA. DSA per se is probably not your best choice - unless you already have a DSA implementation which you want to try to use. DSA is a signature algorithm, and while it is sometimes possible to use a DSA implementation to do encryption, it is not particularly convenient. What you want to do is to use the mathematical principle behind DSA, which is the difficulty of solving the discrete log problem, and use an encryption algorithm which relies on that same math problem, namely Diffie-Hellman or ElGamal encryption. If you need to use DSA, Bruce Schneier describes in his book Applied Cryptography how to get the effect of ElGamal encryption. Here is what he writes, on page 490: : ElGamal Encryption with DSA : : There have been allegations that the government likes the DSA because it is : only a digital signature algorithm and can't be used for encryption. It is, : however, possible to use the DSA function call to do ElGamal encryption. : : Assume that the DSA algorithm is implemented with a single function call: : : DSAsign (p, q, g, k, x, h, r, s) : : You supply the numbers p, q, g, k, x, and h, and the function returns the : signature parameters: r and s. : : To do ElGamal encryption of message m with public key y, choose a random : number k, and call : : DSAsign (p, p, g, k, 0, 0, r, s) : : The value of r returned is a in the ElGamal scheme. Throw s away. Then, : call : : DSAsign (p, p, y, k, 0, 0, r, s) : : Rename the value of r to be u; throw s away. Call : : DSAsign (p, p, m, 1, u, 0, r, s) : : Throw r away. The value of s returned is b in the ElGamal scheme. You now : have the ciphertext, a and b. : : Decryption is just as easy. Using secret key x, and ciphertext messages : a and b, call : : DSAsign (p, p, a, x, 0, 0, r, s) : : The value r is a^x mod p. Call that e. Then call : : DSAsign (p, p, 1, e, b, 0, r, s) : : The value s is the plaintext message, m. : : This method will not work with all implementations of DSA. Some may fix : the value sof p and q, or the lengths of some of the other parameters. : Still, if the implementation is general enough, this is a way to encrypt : using nothing more than digital signature function. If you need more information about what the various values mean, or how to create a DSA and/or ElGamal key, just ask. Really, ElGamal is simple enough that if you have access to a large-number math package, writing your own is probably easier than trying to get DSA to do it. It is unlikely that you will find a DSA implementation which allows you to specify all the needed parameters above, particularly h and k. Usually h is forgotten after key generation and not used during signature, and implementions will probably want to choose k themselves since it is a very sensitive parameter. From bennett at peacefire.org Mon Dec 7 22:05:24 1998 From: bennett at peacefire.org (Bennett Haselton) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:05:24 +0800 Subject: DSA for encryption In-Reply-To: <199812080525.GAA32479@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981207234844.01003230@h.mail.vanderbilt.edu> At 06:25 AM 12/8/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >>Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software >>could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have >>all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get >>their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not >>blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests >>between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server. > >It may not be so easy to get people to set up port-forwarding programs. >These could be a target for hackers seeking to cover their tracks as they >try break-ins. The ports would only forward Web-based traffic, so an attack would have to be carried out over HTTP. The phf exploit is a notorious example; the IANS was modified early to specifically prevent it from being used for phf exploits. But most other attacks cannot be done just with a Web browser as far as I know. One additional option would be to distribute port-forwarding programs that keep logs of traffic. The standard port-forwarding program for Windows which we plan on recommending, Portpipe, does not do this, but we might write our own version that does. >Also, how many people in this day of commercial ISPs are >able to set up port-forwarding programs? Portpipe can be set up in thirty seconds on a Windows machine. What you need though is a machine that is connected more or less permanently to the Internet. >It would seem more promising to make your web page script be simple >and portable enough that even users of AOL and free webpage hosts like >GeoCities would be able to install it. The problem with having lots of people run a copy of IANS is not that it couldn't be made easy to install, but in many cases it might not be even possible to install. Low-end Web page accounts do not allow the running of CGI scripts on the Web server. >>I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to >>solve this problem. We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent >>using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without >>royalties, unlike, for example, RSA. [...] >What you want to do is to use the mathematical principle behind DSA, which >is the difficulty of solving the discrete log problem, and use an encryption >algorithm which relies on that same math problem, namely Diffie-Hellman or >ElGamal encryption. [...] >If you need more information about what the various values mean, or how >to create a DSA and/or ElGamal key, just ask. Thanks! Some people had already pointed out to me that ElGamal would be an ideal choice, and was probably what I had in mind when I was looking for "a version of DSA that can be used for encryption". I'll follow the outline of the ElGamal algorithm given at http://www1.shore.net/~ws/Extras/Security-Notes/lectures/publickey.html and the outline given in _Applied Cryptography_ unless you have another recommendation. >Really, ElGamal is simple enough that if you have access to a large-number >math package, writing your own is probably easier than trying to get DSA >to do it. It is unlikely that you will find a DSA implementation which >allows you to specify all the needed parameters above, particularly h >and k. Usually h is forgotten after key generation and not used during >signature, and implementions will probably want to choose k themselves >since it is a very sensitive parameter. I will probably have to write my own large-number package for JavaScript in order to implement ElGamal. You've given me enough to get started though, thanks! (If I have any more questions, I'll have to post them to the list since you're using the re-mailer :-) but maybe the list population will find this interesting anyway.) -Bennett bennett at peacefire.org (615) 421 5432 http://www.peacefire.org From koontz at ariolimax.com Mon Dec 7 23:54:35 1998 From: koontz at ariolimax.com (David G. Koontz) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:54:35 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> Message-ID: <366CD51E.41C67EA6@ariolimax.com> John Gilmore wrote: > >> PS: I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that > this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto > publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers. > A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron? > What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is. A glorious anouncement! 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From jk at stallion.ee Tue Dec 8 00:56:08 1998 From: jk at stallion.ee (Jyri Kaljundi) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:56:08 +0800 Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? In-Reply-To: <91301833500932@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Peter Gutmann wrote: > One thing which came to me recently when I was trying to figure out what sort > of gun the US held to the rest of the world's head to get them to agree to > this: Could the Wassenaar outcome have been a sign of Echelon in action? Much more I believe it could have been the promise of US to allow the W countries to use the Echelon system sometimes. Something like in case your country needs access to the system, it might be possible to order this service from US Echelon Co. Of course US either would allow it in cases like international terrorism threats, not for spying on European political organs, technological and development and research organisations US probably is using it for today. And it could be just a promise by US. Why this thing might have worked would be because the level education and understanding of US and European representatives at these issues (Echelon, communications wiretapping) could be very different, so the non-US politicians might have not understood what they were really voting on. And of course the government of every country in the world is always happy if it can spy on anyone. Sad that they do not understand that the crypto software today is a little bit too advanced and freely available that who wants can still use it. Jyri Kaljundi jk at stallion.ee AS Stallion Ltd http://www.stallion.ee/ From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Dec 8 01:35:13 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:35:13 +0800 Subject: knapsack.... Message-ID: Where could I find the algorithm (per se) for Merkle-Hellman knapsack ? (if it is not for free just say so) :) I've read in Mr. Schneier's book that Chor-Rivest knapsack is secure (unless for some specializerd attack). Is it still as secure today as the latter years? Bernie From x at x.com Tue Dec 8 01:46:28 1998 From: x at x.com (x) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:46:28 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006fd6e8@shell15.ba.best.com> This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for some time and has probably been discussed on this list before. In this distribution method, as long as there is the opportunity to cooperate ahead of time and out of band, there is the potential for retaining the ability to provide access any binary data that would be subject to unwanted control. The scheme is just a variation of secret sharing and all that is necessary is for several different entities to replicate portions of the desired software, which portions in and of themselves cannot be subject to any control. For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download. Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for themselves, for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw in some additional obfuscation by each site XORing their portion of the image by some additional data available at a fourth site such as a collection of cypherpunk list text. It then is trivial to reconstruct the desired image from the independent sources, while none of the sources themselves can be subject to controls without having to go down the rat hole of having to define what really constitutes the restricted material -- either in all possible forms, or in terms of all possible transforms applicable to the partitioned source material. Otherwise it could be argued that there is a function and that takes the image of an ASCII representation of Herman Melville's Moby Dick into the image of PGP.ZIP and therefore Moby Dick is an export controlled item. Or is the transform the export-controlled item? Or what? Eh? At 09:38 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > >--- begin forwarded text > > >X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use >HELO protocol >To: cryptography at c2.net, gnu at toad.com >Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls >Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800 >From: John Gilmore >Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net > >The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only >all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones. As >today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating >bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for >publishing PGP on his web page. > >Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong >crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they >threaten to erect. Today we depend on a small number of archives (in >a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP, >SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto >tools that we use daily. > >Let's replicate these archives in many countries. I call for >volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware >organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be >exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from >your own site and your own country as long as it's legal. (The >Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to >try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.) > >And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for >you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the >pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can >get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your >own citizens can get the tools. That'll still be better than the >citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy! > >(I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you >own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else. >That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten >except you.) > >I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy >to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people >will send him notices at jya at pipeline.com as your sites come up. >(Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend >on a single site.) > >Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto >distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase >strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public >that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments >of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it. >And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on >smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each >country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when >the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives. > > John Gilmore > >--- end forwarded text > > >----------------- >Robert A. Hettinga >Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > > From x at x.com Tue Dec 8 01:51:47 1998 From: x at x.com (x) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:51:47 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981208010003.006faf20@shell15.ba.best.com> there must be something here that I'm missing. At the core of this protocol seems to be the establishment not of crypto anarchy but of a crypto elite. in this scheme only the processors of computing power have economic power. Now I realize that our current economic system is based on economic power being invested in a closed community of powerful elites, and is by no means egalitarian, but this looks to be like simply substituting one group of "haves" for a different group of "haves" I have to admit not being familiar with the Orthodoxy of crypto anarchy, but if the premise is a centerless self organizing system of free agents this protocol seems to miss the mark. or what is it that I am missing here? At 07:37 PM 12/5/98 GMT, you wrote: > > >Wei Dei recently announced (on cypherpunks) his "b-money, a new >protocol for monetary exchange and contract enforcement for >pseudonyms". > >Below is the text of his proposal. > >Comments to follow. > >Adam > >====================================================================== >http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/bmoney.txt >====================================================================== > >I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities >traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the >government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and >permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is >impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible >because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical >locations. > >Until now it's not clear, even theoretically, how such a community could >operate. A community is defined by the cooperation of its participants, >and efficient cooperation requires a medium of exchange (money) and a way >to enforce contracts. Traditionally these services have been provided by >the government or government sponsored institutions and only to legal >entities. In this article I describe a protocol by which these services >can be provided to and by untraceable entities. > >I will actually describe two protocols. The first one is impractical, >because it makes heavy use of a synchronous and unjammable anonymous >broadcast channel. However it will motivate the second, more practical >protocol. In both cases I will assume the existence of an untraceable >network, where senders and receivers are identified only by digital >pseudonyms (i.e. public keys) and every messages is signed by its sender >and encrypted to its receiver. > >In the first protocol, every participant maintains a (seperate) database >of how much money belongs to each pseudonym. These accounts collectively >define the ownership of money, and how these accounts are updated is the >subject of this protocol. > >1. The creation of money. Anyone can create money by broadcasting the >solution to a previously unsolved computational problem. The only >conditions are that it must be easy to determine how much computing effort >it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no >value, either practical or intellectual. The number of monetary units >created is equal to the cost of the computing effort in terms of a >standard basket of commodities. For example if a problem takes 100 hours >to solve on the computer that solves it most economically, and it takes 3 >standard baskets to purchase 100 hours of computing time on that computer >on the open market, then upon the broadcast of the solution to that >problem everyone credits the broadcaster's account by 3 units. > >2. The transfer of money. If Alice (owner of pseudonym K_A) wishes to >transfer X units of money to Bob (owner of pseudonym K_B), she broadcasts >the message "I give X units of money to K_B" signed by K_A. Upon the >broadcast of this message, everyone debits K_A's account by X units and >credits K_B's account by X units, unless this would create a negative >balance in K_A's account in which case the message is ignored. > >3. The effecting of contracts. A valid contract must include a maximum >reparation in case of default for each participant party to it. It should >also include a party who will perform arbitration should there be a >dispute. All parties to a contract including the arbitrator must broadcast >their signatures of it before it becomes effective. Upon the broadcast of >the contract and all signatures, every participant debits the account of >each party by the amount of his maximum reparation and credits a special >account identified by a secure hash of the contract by the sum the maximum >reparations. The contract becomes effective if the debits succeed for >every party without producing a negative balance, otherwise the contract >is ignored and the accounts are rolled back. A sample contract might look >like this: > >K_A agrees to send K_B the solution to problem P before 0:0:0 1/1/2000. >K_B agrees to pay K_A 100 MU (monetary units) before 0:0:0 1/1/2000. K_C >agrees to perform arbitration in case of dispute. K_A agrees to pay a >maximum of 1000 MU in case of default. K_B agrees to pay a maximum of 200 >MU in case of default. K_C agrees to pay a maximum of 500 MU in case of >default. > >4. The conclusion of contracts. If a contract concludes without dispute, >each party broadcasts a signed message "The contract with SHA-1 hash H >concludes without reparations." or possibly "The contract with SHA-1 hash >H concludes with the following reparations: ..." Upon the broadcast of all >signatures, every participant credits the account of each party by the >amount of his maximum reparation, removes the contract account, then >credits or debits the account of each party according to the reparation >schedule if there is one. > >5. The enforcement of contracts. If the parties to a contract cannot agree >on an appropriate conclusion even with the help of the arbitrator, each >party broadcasts a suggested reparation/fine schedule and any arguments or >evidence in his favor. Each participant makes a determination as to the >actual reparations and/or fines, and modifies his accounts accordingly. > >In the second protocol, the accounts of who has how much money are kept by >a subset of the participants (called servers from now on) instead of >everyone. These servers are linked by a Usenet-style broadcast channel. >The format of transaction messages broadcasted on this channel remain the >same as in the first protocol, but the affected participants of each >transaction should verify that the message has been received and >successfully processed by a randomly selected subset of the servers. > >Since the servers must be trusted to a degree, some mechanism is needed to >keep them honest. Each server is required to deposit a certain amount of >money in a special account to be used as potential fines or rewards for >proof of misconduct. Also, each server must periodically publish and >commit to its current money creation and money ownership databases. Each >participant should verify that his own account balances are correct and >that the sum of the account balances is not greater than the total amount >of money created. This prevents the servers, even in total collusion, from >permanently and costlessly expanding the money supply. New servers can >also use the published databases to synchronize with existing servers. > >The protocol proposed in this article allows untraceable pseudonymous >entities to cooperate with each other more efficiently, by providing them >with a medium of exchange and a method of enforcing contracts. The >protocol can probably be made more efficient and secure, but I hope this >is a step toward making crypto-anarchy a practical as well as theoretical >possibility. > >====================================================================== > > > From griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Tue Dec 8 02:23:42 1998 From: griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il (Tim Griffiths) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:23:42 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006fd6e8@shell15.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <366CF6FD.DBBE7AD2@wis.weizmann.ac.il> x wrote: > > This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for > some time and has probably been discussed on this list before... > For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download. > Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for > themselves, for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw > in some additional obfuscation...It then is trivial to reconstruct > the desired image from the independent sources, while none of the > sources themselves can be subject to controls without having to go > down the rat hole of having to define what really constitutes the > restricted material... 1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it. "The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware of it's illegality". 2. By your example, you could also take a cruise missile apart, and ship each part separately. After all, none of it is actually a missile. However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has a cigar or not in a posted picture. Yes, the law is inconsistent (let alone stupid). Not, I wouldn't want to try this and expect to be immune from prosecution. Tim G -- Tim Griffiths griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 Rehovot 76100 Israel 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men, and I tell you they are shallow movements in space tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF From x at x.com Tue Dec 8 03:20:05 1998 From: x at x.com (x) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:20:05 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.007048c0@shell15.ba.best.com> At 11:53 AM 12/8/98 +0200, Tim Griffiths wrote: > >x wrote: >> >> This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for >> some time and has probably been discussed on this list before... >> For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download. >> Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for >> themselves, for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw >> in some additional obfuscation...It then is trivial to reconstruct >> the desired image from the independent sources, while none of the >> sources themselves can be subject to controls without having to go >> down the rat hole of having to define what really constitutes the >> restricted material... > >1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it >openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it. >"The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware >of it's illegality". the point is not to hide anything; the point is to expand, arbitrarily (and this was a trivial example), the f() that takes bits from a controllable image to one that is not. > >2. By your example, you could also take a cruise missile apart, and >ship each part separately. After all, none of it is actually a missile. in a cruise missle, there will be certain parts -- e.g. the warhead explosives? -- that are still identifiable as controlled. taking apart the missle by n people where n is the number of 'parts' will result in some subset of participants possessing components that implicate them in an illegal act. this is simply not true of bits. What is the bit sequence that defines "munition"-ness? My point is that there is no hard point at which that can be defined, when you start talking about mappings from a controlled image to some other images which cannot be controlled. > >However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a >web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has >a cigar or not in a posted picture. You're just asserting the assumptions I am trying to examine, and this is not helpful. You're also assuming a single participant, with accountability. I am assuming multiple participants, and that they're acting independently; let's expand this to say that one individual provides the 'algorithm' for the mapping, and any other participants are free to obtain their image out of band legally, and implement this algorithm on some portion of the image, publishing the result. Whom do you arrest? Where is the culpability? If the algorithm defines that there be 256K subimages of the original, one for each byte, say...can I be arrested for choosing to post f(byte 123,456)? Or do I get arrested for publishing f(byte 123,456) PLUS the information that identifies this byte as corresponding to byte 123,456 in the reconstruction of the original? I honestly don't know where this goes, but to just make a blanket statement like you did doesn't really add anything. >Yes, the law is inconsistent (let alone stupid). Not, I wouldn't want >to try this and expect to be immune from prosecution. > >Tim G > >-- >Tim Griffiths griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il >Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk >Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 >Rehovot 76100 Israel > > 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men, > and I tell you they are shallow movements in space > tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF > > > From pilgrim at laguna.com.mx Tue Dec 8 04:21:51 1998 From: pilgrim at laguna.com.mx (pilgrim at laguna.com.mx) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:21:51 +0800 Subject: (eternity) eternity using politics rather than economics In-Reply-To: <19981205164842.B25348@arianrhod.@> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981206185851.007b03f0@laguna-01.laguna.com.mx> At 04:48 PM 12/05/1998 -0400, Ryan Lackey wrote: At 04:48 PM 12/05/1998 -0400, you wrote: >When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same >conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do >a workable eternity implementation. Without abs you can't get a workable freedom implementation. [...] >As far as I can tell, having a good Eternity implementation is still >blocked on getting a reasonable electronic cash system. There are >some people in Anguilla... ...and elsewhere. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Dec 8 04:24:32 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:24:32 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812081139.LAA18806@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > > The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only > > all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones. As > > today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating > > bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for > > publishing PGP on his web page. > > And this is different from yesterday how? What's different is that this is Denmark now. Before it was just the US. > > Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong > > crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they > > threaten to erect. > > Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and > other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going > up? John said that people should put up per country mirrors first globally accessible, but if required by local laws / harrassment to stop doing that make them accessible only in the country. As a fall back position as I understand it, so that all the useful crypto apps are still available. Adam From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 8 04:24:38 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:24:38 +0800 Subject: Wiretap Operation Sheds Light on LAPD Tactics In-Reply-To: <199812072323.AAA32006@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812081158.GAA20172@mail1.panix.com> At 12:23 AM 12/8/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >If it is Monday, December 7, 1998, you can go to >http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/topstory.html and read about how >Los Angeles police wiretapped a small cellular phone service provider >because his policies were too helpful for drug dealers. He didn't try >hard enough to verify customer names, he sold cell phones with built in >scramblers, he allowed customers to change phones and numbers easily. So when are the cops going after Radio Shack, Sprint, Omnipoint, Bell Atlantic, etc that sell card-fed phones in the New York area? DCF From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 8 04:38:01 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:38:01 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006fd6e8@shell15.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <366D134F.54FFCEA4@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Tim Griffiths wrote: > However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a > web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has > a cigar or not in a posted picture. Hence the best way, once there are strict export regulations, is not to export. One moves rather knowledge (thought) across the country boundaries and there build locally the desired software. That's why I believe it will be increasingly more essential for the future to have good crypto algorithms that are very simple to describe and implement. Whether these are very fast is at most of secondary importance. For really very critical applications seldom involve huge volumes and even if they do the computing cost hardly matters and one can employ multiple hardware to achieve the required rate of transmission. M. K. Shen ------------------------------------------------------ M. K. Shen, Postfach 340238, D-80099 Muenchen, Germany +49 (89) 831939 (6:00 GMT) mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/ (Last updated: 10th October 1998. Origin site of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E. Containing 2 mathematical problems with rewards totalling US$500.) From wbclinic at efn.org Tue Dec 8 04:39:22 1998 From: wbclinic at efn.org (wbclinic at efn.org) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:39:22 +0800 Subject: WE RULE! Message-ID: <0012547854.JAA00147@longtom.efn.org> Out webpage is better than anyone elses page on the net, and we offer the help for disadvantaged that no one can! Can't solve your problems? We CAN! We learned the ancient trick to solving all emotional problems, but it'll cost you unless you are poor and can prove it. WRITE US TODAY! White Bird Clinic From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 8 04:52:35 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:52:35 +0800 Subject: Quick ping about Surety Technologies Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:17:17 -0500 (EST) From: To: rah at shipwright.com Subject: Re: Quick ping about Surety Technologies > *That*'s interesting. Haven't heard it before. If you want, I'll bounce it > around. If you would, that would be interesting. The patent info on their web site includes: Method for secure timestamping of digital documents. U.S. Patent No. 5,136,647, issued August 4, 1992. U.S. Patent Re. 34,954, reissued May 30, 1995. The initial patent issue covers a variety of fundamental technology and algorithmic components of digital timestamping. More specifically, the claims cover: * Any use of an outside party's digital signature to timestamp a document. * The "hash-and-sign" method in which the outside party receives the one-way hash of the document to be timestamped. I distrust software patents, but even that aside, these sound really broad to me. More info at . --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ulf at fitug.de Tue Dec 8 05:54:06 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 21:54:06 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812081311.OAA112802@public.uni-hamburg.de> According to Jim Choate: > And this is different from yesterday how? It is different in that it has been legal to distribute PGP and any other public domain and mass market crypto software from Denmark up to now. > Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and > other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going > up? John Gilmore's RSAREF site went up about a year ago. Your point being what? From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 06:06:05 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:06:05 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081349.HAA10098@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:39:33 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > > And this is different from yesterday how? > > What's different is that this is Denmark now. Before it was just the > US. And Canada, France, England, China, South Africa, etc., etc., etc. It was NEVER *just* the US. > > Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and > > other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going > > up? > > John said that people should put up per country mirrors first globally > accessible, but if required by local laws / harrassment to stop doing > that make them accessible only in the country. And this reduces their footprint with their LEA's how? > As a fall back position as I understand it, so that all the useful > crypto apps are still available. Which doesn't change my original question one whit. What is Gilmore going to do with his may resources to protect those who participate? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 06:12:18 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:12:18 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081354.HAA10195@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 12:53:51 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls > Tim Griffiths wrote: > > > However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a > > web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has > > a cigar or not in a posted picture. > > Hence the best way, once there are strict export regulations, is not > to export. One moves rather knowledge (thought) across the country > boundaries and there build locally the desired software. That's why > I believe it will be increasingly more essential for the future to > have good crypto algorithms that are very simple to describe and > implement. Interesting aspect to a cypherpunks archive. Archive the software as well as the technical documentation required to write it from scratch. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 06:15:04 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:15:04 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081346.HAA09950@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:11:14 +0100 (NFT) > From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) > According to Jim Choate: > > > And this is different from yesterday how? > > It is different in that it has been legal to distribute PGP and any > other public domain and mass market crypto software from Denmark > up to now. Ah, so the call is for folks in Denmark to post the various pieces of currently available software then, not everyone on the planet as it appears. Don't think so. He's asking that people put PGP and other available software on their websites without the current export controls. If he's not then he's not doing anything except blowing empty bugles because people are already doing what he's asking for. In that situation he's after reputation capital, personal gain. > > Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and > > other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going > > up? > > John Gilmore's RSAREF site went up about a year ago. Your point being what? Exactly what it states above. If you don't get it to bad. RSAREF is not quite what he is asking folks to do now is it. Bottem line, Gilmore is asking folks to run out and put their livelyhood and their life at risk. What's he going to do for those who comply with his request? Let me ask you this Ulf, when is YOUR site going up? When will YOU be the first European repeater for the CDR? Your address implies you're in Denmark. What are you going to do for YOUR liberty today? Has Gilmore agreed to help fund YOUR fight of the change in your courts? Bottem line, when will you get off your butt and put your neck in the noose like many of the rest of us? The reality is that the change in Denmark's law changes the global picture very little. Now when Denmark quites letting people IMPORT PGP *and* places like the US quite letting people export it in some media (currently paper & ink) then you'll have cause to really be indignent. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 06:19:09 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:19:09 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081357.HAA10256@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 02:28:18 -0800 > From: x > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin > Walls > >1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it > >openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it. > >"The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware > >of it's illegality". > > the point is not to hide anything; the point is to expand, arbitrarily (and > this was a trivial example), the f() that takes bits from a controllable > image to one that is not. In other words, hide it. A distributed stego hash algorithm. It quacks like a duck. It waddles like a duck. It swims like a duck. It would actualy be criminal collusion and would give the LEA's in the relevant areas the necessary reason (ie probable cause) to act in concert, creating a bigger big brother. Hardly a cpunks goal. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 8 07:18:29 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:18:29 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812081419.JAA21468@camel8.mindspring.com> In response to John Gilmore's call for a foil to US-Wassenaar restrictions acoming, we've put up a preliminary list of international cryptography sources for mirroring: http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm This is a quick starter-kit and is far from comprehensive. Contributions welcome. Ken Williams offers an impressive (177MB) crypto/stego archive: http://www.genocide2600.com/~tattooman/cryptography/ From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 07:18:37 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:18:37 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... Message-ID: <199812081450.IAA10578@einstein.ssz.com> Here's the bottem line issue with Gilmore's RSAREF site. It isn't Gilmore's, it's EFF's. It isn't Gilmore's butt on the line as it would be for person who participate in his call to action. What's EFF going to do to protect those participants? Nothing. What's Gilmore personaly going to do to protect those participants? Nothing. He's asking others to put their butt in the line of fire while he sits safely in a rear area. In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 8 08:31:35 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:31:35 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812081533.KAA12935@mail1.panix.com> At 08:39 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: >(Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real >live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), to a >real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip >("asked"?) at the airport?) I was discussing this very question with the inamorata of a member of this list recently in San Jose. We were trying to figure out why I knew instinctively what to say when confronted with government agents and she didn't (though she is an attorney). I figured out that it was because I read Heinlein. He taught a lot about how to respond to these things. Those who haven't read Heinlein (or don't learn from books) won't know what to say. And in these high stress situations, answers which you have thought about in advance or conducted mental simulations with will come out more easily. You say - "Go away." "Write me a letter." "I only deal with government agents via my lawyer." "Where's Your Warrant." Or how about -- "My lawyer's name is X, I have officially informed you that I am represented by counsel and thus you cannot question me without counsel being present." When they write a letter, you handle it the way Rumpole of the Baily handled those letters from the Inland Revenue. You throw it away. Some years ago at 5000 Bonny Doone Road Santa Cruz, CA an IRS agent rang the bell outside the gate in the fence of the reinforced concrete house owned by Robert Anson Heinlein. He wanted to talk. Heinlein said "go away" "write a letter." The Agent said "you're not going to make me drive all the way back to San Jose, are you?" Heinlein said "Yes." You don't have to talk to government agents -- even if they arrest you. Saying "No" and "Go Away" is short and easy to say. >And above all else, beyond being >symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real. It can be the hardest >thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real. Just Say No. DCF From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 8 08:33:00 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:33:00 +0800 Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812081533.KAA12990@mail1.panix.com> >Hi >This is a true story. Denmark now - along with the whole EU - has >assimilated US-crypto laws. >I just had a phone conversation with the danish ministry of commerce, >the export control division. The kind lady I spoke to threatened me with >fines or jail for up to two years. > >For having PGP for free download on my homepage! > >I called the division to hear about the Wassenaar arrangement on >export-restrictions on strong crypto and its consequences. So I ask this >lady something like: I have this strong crypto program called PGP on my >homepage. What should I do. Does this Wassenaar arrangement concern me? > 'It sure does', she replies, and start to ask a lot of questions about >my homepage - does it have unlimited global access etc. And then she >says: 'You better take it down', and starts to reiterate the legal >aspects, e.g. two laws from EU on export restrictions. > Specifically she points out the penal code: Fines. Jail. > So... What you say in this case is "The Wassenaar arrangement was changed in secret a few days ago. It is merely advisory. Has the efficient Denmark bureaucracy had time to change the laws and regs since then or are you just blowing hot air?" DCF From twaweb at inet2.twa.com Wed Dec 9 00:34:26 1998 From: twaweb at inet2.twa.com (Trans World Specials) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:34:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales Message-ID: <19981208163901.24793.qmail@inet2.twa.com> Welcome to Trans World Specials for December 8th, 1998. All tickets must be purchased at time of booking and not later than December 11, 1998. Did you know you still have until December 15th to travel and earn double Aviator miles. Don't miss your chance to double your earnings. And your chance to earn up to 15,000 bonus Aviator miles has been extended to January 31, 1999. You can get the details at: http://www.twa.com/frq_trav_info/ft_aviators_bonus.html Beginning next week we will launch a great new enhancement to our Hot Fares. Rather than phoning in your reservation, you will book them directly on our website. This will make it even easier for you save big. With select fares of $89 and higher you can receive a discount by redeeming only 5000 Aviator miles. To celerate our return to Mexico City, TWA is offering a great fare from St. Louis to Mexico City. Book your ticket with TWA by 12/13/98. You can stay as few as 3 days or as many as 30. Originate travel betweeen 1/31/99 and 2/28/99 and complete travel by 3/31/99. Say yes to Mexico! We also have a great deal from New York to St. Maarten, Netherlands to kick off our new service. Depart New York on December 17-18 and return December 19-21, 24, 25. 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To redeem Aviator Miles with your fare, call the Aviators Service Center at 1-800-325-4815. ****************ALAMO**************** Alamo offers the following low rates valid 12/11/98 - 12/14/98 $16.49 Austin, TX - San Antonio,TX $17.49 Milwaukee, WI - St. Louis, MO $18.49 Salt Lake City, UT $19.49 Ft. Lauderdale, FL - Orlando, FL - Tampa, FL $20.49 Hartford, CT - Washington, DC(National) -Sacramento, CA $21.49 Denver, CO For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT and ID # 443833. For online reservations visit the Alamo website at: http://www.goalaomo.com ***********HILTON HOTELS/RESORTS****************** $72 Hilton Crystal City at National Airport Arlington, VA ( Free airport shuttle, located 5 minutes form the sights of D.C.) $79 Hilton Deerfield Beach/Boca Raton Deerfield Beach, FL (Just 2 miles from the beach. 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Fare does not include $47 in APHIS/U.S. Customs/Immigration/U.S. Departure Tax/Security Surcharge. Car Rental Conditions: Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if any, are extra. Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for economy rentals(unless stated otherwise by Alamo) commencing on Friday and ending by 11:59 PM on Monday. Rates only valid during week in which they are published via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. Two day minimum rental required. Hotel Conditions: Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the specific week in which they are published via the TWA Hot Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. Limited availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are not guaranteed and will be confirmed at time of reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out subject to availability. No extra charge for children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' room; total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations and other applicable laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not include any other fees or charges, including without limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot be combined with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, promotional offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms of other offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus or any other problem or damage related to use of the program or its offers. From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 8 08:41:08 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:41:08 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber In-Reply-To: <199812081527.KAA07438@unix1.worldlynx.net> Message-ID: <199812081552.KAA12917@camel8.mindspring.com> David Beroff wrote: >Wait a sec. Maybe I'm confused. I thought you were talking about >mass-mirroring the *content* of key sites, not just the URL pointers. > >I would imagine that a small committee would have to "edit" by >suggesting what should and shouldn't be included; one must realize >that if the final file is too large, people will be discouraged from mirroring. Yes, Gilmore's proposal was to mirror the contents; URLs threaten no reg-makers. Yep, mirrors of everything would be very large. We've heard already that folks would like help in knowing what to mirror if they can't do large archives, or can't easily decide which are most important. My advice so far: mirror whatever you can until better advice comes forth. Prime need: many mirrors of the strongest stuff, especially anything above 40-bits, that is anything that now requires a US export license (which appears to be where Wassenaar wildebeests and the domestic US is being stampeded). What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and- running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure, it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall, awaiting Wassenaar. From 3umoelle at informatik.uni-hamburg.de Tue Dec 8 08:42:04 1998 From: 3umoelle at informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:42:04 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812081346.HAA09950@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812081543.QAA29629@rzdspc26.informatik.uni-hamburg.de> > Ah, so the call is for folks in Denmark to post the various pieces of > currently available software then, not everyone on the planet as it appears. It is not just about Denmark. The Wassenaar arrangement has been signed by 33 countries, including the US, Canada, the European Union, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Norway and others. Up to now, 30 of these states have allowed to export mass market and public domain crypto software without a license. Only the US, France and NZ did not have the "General Software Note". The US has exercised extreme pressure at the Wassenaar conference (as one German government official writes) and has managed to get the General Software Note modified. Now the states that have signed the arrangement will have to regulate the export of strong cryptography. There are other places such as Brazil, Iceland, South Africa, India, and even Singapore which do not have any export restrictions. However, must crypto software that is distributed on the Internet right now is distributed under General Software Note. John Gilmore writes: "I call for volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long as it's legal." ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Which is exactly what is needed in this situation. > RSAREF is not quite what he is asking folks to do now is it. RSAREF is what he has determined he can legally export from the US. So, yes, he is doing what he also asks others to do. > Let me ask you this Ulf, when is YOUR site going up? My university is already distributing SSLeay, PGP, ssh, cfs and other cypto tools. As long as they continue to do so, I won't make my mirror available on the web, but my own crypto site is going up later this week with another piece of strong crypto software. > Your address implies you're in Denmark. Almost. :) > What are you going to do for YOUR liberty today? Has Gilmore agreed to > help fund YOUR fight of the change in your courts? Today I am going to create the distribution of the software I have been working on in the past months, have the server set up and, if all goes well, upload the file. I have made a few thousand dollars on developing crypto software and I am ready to use much of that money to defend my right to distribute the results of my work on the web. I haven't asked John or anybody else to help me. From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 8 08:51:34 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:51:34 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... In-Reply-To: <199812081450.IAA10578@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812081541.KAA14344@mail1.panix.com> At 08:50 AM 12/8/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Here's the bottem line issue with Gilmore's RSAREF site. > >It isn't Gilmore's, it's EFF's. > >It isn't Gilmore's butt on the line as it would be for person who >participate in his call to action. > >What's EFF going to do to protect those participants? Nothing. > >What's Gilmore personaly going to do to protect those participants? Nothing. > >He's asking others to put their butt in the line of fire while he sits >safely in a rear area. > >In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights. Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports. It's dead letter law. They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian. DCF "Who personally exported RSA/PERL labels to an alien working for a UK newspaper at the 1995 CFP at the SFO Marriot." From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 09:12:08 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:12:08 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081627.KAA11330@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:45:56 -0500 > From: Duncan Frissell > Subject: Re: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... > > Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports. It's > dead letter law. They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian. > So, when do you bring your site with unconstrained access to PGP up? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 8 09:30:05 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:30:05 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <366D53CB.A2B7AAAC@stud.uni-muenchen.de> John Young wrote: > > In response to John Gilmore's call for a foil to US-Wassenaar > restrictions acoming, we've put up a preliminary list of international > cryptography sources for mirroring: > > http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm > > This is a quick starter-kit and is far from comprehensive. > Contributions welcome. For longer term it might be desirable to have a site in a crypto- politics neutral country (one that is unlikely to have crypto laws in foreseeable future) to which software could be uploaded. Downloading is then import and not subject to restriction. M. K. Shen From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 09:37:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:37:53 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081647.KAA11529@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 17:28:59 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > For longer term it might be desirable to have a site in a crypto- > politics neutral country (one that is unlikely to have crypto laws > in foreseeable future) to which software could be uploaded. > Downloading is then import and not subject to restriction. Where? Where is there a country that has a social, economic, and legal infrastructure of sufficient breadth but liberal views of speech to support such an effort? There are lots of little countries around but they have unstable governments, no economy to speak of, limited telecommunications infrastructure, etc. It's fine and dandy to talk about this in the theoretic but the rubber has to hit the road at some point. There isn't such a country to be had. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 10:02:18 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:02:18 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081704.LAA11667@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:41:33 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber > Yes, Gilmore's proposal was to mirror the contents; URLs threaten > no reg-makers. > > Yep, mirrors of everything would be very large. We've heard already > that folks would like help in knowing what to mirror if they can't do > large archives, or can't easily decide which are most important. [text deleted] > What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging > programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and- > running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure, > it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall, > awaiting Wassenaar. Besides enraging, it should also include the necessary documents, monographs, libraries, etc. to empower others to write the code within their own legal boundaries. If somebody makes the effort to compile such a list I'd like to personaly request they include this in addition to finished product. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 10:25:07 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:25:07 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081658.KAA11596@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:43:58 +0100 (MET) > From: 3umoelle at informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) > > Ah, so the call is for folks in Denmark to post the various pieces of > > currently available software then, not everyone on the planet as it appears. > > It is not just about Denmark. The Wassenaar arrangement has been > signed by 33 countries, including the US, Canada, the European Union, > Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Norway and others. Up to now, 30 of > these states have allowed to export mass market and public domain > crypto software without a license. Only the US, France and NZ did not > have the "General Software Note". Which is EXACTLY my point. People are being asked to put their butts on the line with no infrastructure or plan for what happens when the LEA's show up. Such poor planning is doomed to fail. > The US has exercised extreme pressure at the Wassenaar conference (as > one German government official writes) and has managed to get the > General Software Note modified. Now the states that have signed the > arrangement will have to regulate the export of strong > cryptography. There are other places such as Brazil, Iceland, South > Africa, India, and even Singapore which do not have any export > restrictions. And look at their social, economic, and civil liberty records. Other than Iceland not one area on your list of places has sufficient resources of the correct type to support this sort of effort. Iceland is about the only place that has any hope at all. Is there any move by any group to start some sort of archive there? Are there any subscribers from Iceland on the CDR? If so, I'd like their view on how realistic it would be to host a site in Iceland. > John Gilmore writes: "I call for volunteers in each country, at each > university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools > while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to > offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long > as it's legal." ^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Which is exactly what is needed in this situation. Which, again, is my point. What is Gilmore going to do when they decide to make it illegal and start hassling these folks who were kind enough to back him? What does he OWE them for their participation in HIS movement? > RSAREF is what he has determined he can legally export from the US. So, > yes, he is doing what he also asks others to do. Hm, funny. Looks like EFF owns that site. Gilmore is doing nothing himself. He's using EFF as a shield for personal liability. Why isn't he suggesting that others do this instead of direct and personal action? Why is he not running the gilmore.org site directly? Why isn't he looking at starting some sort of international organization similar to EFF, or expanding EFF to do this sort of stuff and at the same time provide the same sort of legal shield he currently enjoys? > > Let me ask you this Ulf, when is YOUR site going up? > > My university is already distributing SSLeay, PGP, ssh, cfs and other > cypto tools. As long as they continue to do so, I won't make my mirror > available on the web, but my own crypto site is going up later this > week with another piece of strong crypto software. Kudos. > > What are you going to do for YOUR liberty today? Has Gilmore agreed to > > help fund YOUR fight of the change in your courts? > > Today I am going to create the distribution of the software I have > been working on in the past months, have the server set up and, if all > goes well, upload the file. > > I have made a few thousand dollars on developing crypto software and I > am ready to use much of that money to defend my right to distribute > the results of my work on the web. I haven't asked John or anybody > else to help me. But John IS asking you, me, and others to help him. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Dec 8 10:29:39 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:29:39 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081533.KAA12935@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <199812081702.LAA05425@manifold.algebra.com> What are those books? igor Duncan Frissell wrote: > > > At 08:39 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: > >(Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real > >live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), > to a > >real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip > >("asked"?) at the airport?) > > I was discussing this very question with the inamorata of a member of this > list recently in San Jose. We were trying to figure out why I knew > instinctively what to say when confronted with government agents and she > didn't (though she is an attorney). I figured out that it was because I > read Heinlein. He taught a lot about how to respond to these things. > Those who haven't read Heinlein (or don't learn from books) won't know what > to say. And in these high stress situations, answers which you have > thought about in advance or conducted mental simulations with will come out > more easily. > > You say - "Go away." "Write me a letter." "I only deal with government > agents via my lawyer." "Where's Your Warrant." Or how about -- "My > lawyer's name is X, I have officially informed you that I am represented by > counsel and thus you cannot question me without counsel being present." > > When they write a letter, you handle it the way Rumpole of the Baily > handled those letters from the Inland Revenue. You throw it away. > > Some years ago at 5000 Bonny Doone Road Santa Cruz, CA an IRS agent rang > the bell outside the gate in the fence of the reinforced concrete house > owned by Robert Anson Heinlein. He wanted to talk. Heinlein said "go > away" "write a letter." The Agent said "you're not going to make me drive > all the way back to San Jose, are you?" Heinlein said "Yes." > > You don't have to talk to government agents -- even if they arrest you. > Saying "No" and "Go Away" is short and easy to say. > > >And above all else, beyond being > >symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real. It can be the > hardest > >thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real. > > Just Say No. > > DCF > - Igor. From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu Tue Dec 8 11:17:37 1998 From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (damaged justice) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:17:37 +0800 Subject: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Internet Message-ID: <19981208124833.A13068@yakko.cs.wmich.edu> A survey has suggested that up to half a million British children may have been upset by something they have seen on the Internet. The NOP poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 children between the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September and October this year were "uncomfortable" with some content viewed on-line. In the UK, 2.4 million children are estimated to use the Internet - roughly a third of all children between six and 16. Of those who have had negative experiences while surfing the Internet, the largest proportion - 40% - had seen something "rude". 'Not surprised' One in seven said they had encountered content that had "freightened them", while 25% saw pages that they thought "would get them into trouble". NOP Associate Director Rob Lawson described the numbers as a "significant minority". The children's charity NCH Action for Children suggested the survey strengthened calls for Internet regulation to protect younger users. Charity spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some time. Net nannies "Parents need to know their children are surfing the net in safety and security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all." NCH Action for Children, which advises the government on children's issues, backs the introduction of "net nannies" - programmes which filter out content unsuitable for children. The survey, called Kids.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the BBC, NatWest and Anglia Multimedia in syndicate. The Department of Trade and Industry's forthcoming review on Internet regulation is expected to be published before Christmas. [from news.bbs.co.uk] From jim at acm.org Tue Dec 8 11:45:52 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:45:52 +0800 Subject: Government-enraging programs Message-ID: <366D66F0.E1DC0F7B@acm.org> John Young writes: > What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging > programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and- > running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure, > it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall, > awaiting Wassenaar. One way to determine which programs are the best for this purpose would be to study what various governments have taken some action on. Some obvious ones: PGP (various versions, high level of government interest) Snuffle (extended US litigation) All the AES candidates (strictly-controlled dissemination from NIST) SecureOffice (Charles Booher's program -- US government has taken action) Applied Cryptography disk (US export license denied) It would also be nice to have an infrastructural component, such as (when ready for mass distribution) the Linux/FreeSWAN IPSec release; this doesn't have quite the cachet of programs on which the government has already weighed in, though. -- Jim Gillogly Sterday, 18 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 17:40 12.19.5.13.11, 10 Chuen 4 Mac, First Lord of Night From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 8 11:47:41 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:47:41 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... In-Reply-To: <199812081450.IAA10578@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812081805.NAA19779@camel8.mindspring.com> Duncan Frissell wrote: >Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports. It's >dead letter law. They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian. But isn't the punishment a fine rather than a bust. With the usual grabs of income and possessions if you don't pau. And then being listed on the dreaded "Entities Index," BXcommunicated. Sure, you can take it to trial, and BXA reports on those at its Web site, actually crows about them, the wins, that is. No losses are ever posted, lacking a reporting system for those. In any case, these pockets are bottomless, so mega-fines are just fine, the FUSG gonna be in really deep deficit denial if it forfeitures this blackhole. From sunder at brainlink.com Tue Dec 8 11:53:47 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:53:47 +0800 Subject: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Internet In-Reply-To: <19981208124833.A13068@yakko.cs.wmich.edu> Message-ID: <366D6B76.13E6F105@brainlink.com> damaged justice wrote: > > A survey has suggested that up to half a million British children may > have been upset by something they have seen on the Internet. IMHO, we should take a poll that shows that we've all been upset by what Congress and the TLA's have been doing. :^) If anything, it would be a whole more truthful. -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ In Minitru, Miniluv, individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + and Minipax We Trust in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ---------------------------- http://www.sunder.net --------------------- From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 8 11:58:51 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:58:51 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081533.KAA12935@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com> At 11:02 AM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >What are those books? > >igor Stranger In a Strange Land "UN Secret Police breaking down door while Jubal contacts the Secretary General via his astrologer." Rocket Ship Galileo "Launching before being served by court order -- see also 'The Man Who Sold the Moon' and the movie 'Destination Moon'." The Notebooks of Lazaraus Long "Beware of strong drink. It might make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss." There's a great deal of legal commentary in Heinlein. There are more references where he comments on the need for warrants for searches. It is a very common theme in other right wing/libertarian SF as well. DCF " From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Dec 8 12:26:59 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:26:59 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <199812081807.MAA06805@manifold.algebra.com> Duncan Frissell wrote: > > At 11:02 AM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >What are those books? > > > >igor > > Stranger In a Strange Land > > "UN Secret Police breaking down door while Jubal contacts the Secretary > General via his astrologer." Duncan, I apologize for my ignorance. I am not very well aware of this Heinlein fellow. What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. The ideal book would explain my rights, typical reactions of LE, precedents, some practical matters, dealing with hostile LE, etc etc. Would be especially valuable to me as I am a foreigner. What I am NOT looking for is something about UN troops hiding in my backyard, choosing the best gun to shoot tax collectors, etc. igor > Rocket Ship Galileo > > "Launching before being served by court order -- see also 'The Man Who Sold > the Moon' and the movie 'Destination Moon'." > > The Notebooks of Lazaraus Long > > "Beware of strong drink. It might make you shoot at tax collectors -- and > miss." > > There's a great deal of legal commentary in Heinlein. There are more > references where he comments on the need for warrants for searches. It is > a very common theme in other right wing/libertarian SF as well. > > DCF > > " > - Igor. From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 8 12:44:12 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:44:12 +0800 Subject: Baker on Gilmore's Foil of Wassenaar Message-ID: <199812081838.NAA28722@camel8.mindspring.com> Response to a forward of John Gilmore's message to UK Crypto: Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:50:19 -0500 From: To: Subject: Re:Foil to Wassenaar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" I would only add this caution. I think John is wrong in giving legal advice that Wassenaar is not binding without implementing legislation. That is an American approach to these matters. I believe that many, perhaps most, Wassenaar members derive their authority to regulate exports directly from the arrangement itself. For that reason, I would not assume that everyone everywhere is free to ignore the new restrictions until some further law or regulation is promulgated. Stewart Baker Steptoe & Johnson LLP 202.429.6413 sbaker at steptoe.com Baker & Hurst, "The Limits of Trust -- Governments, Cryptography, and Electronic Commerce" is now available from http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/9041106359 From landon at best.com Tue Dec 8 12:44:40 1998 From: landon at best.com (landon dyer) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:44:40 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081702.LAA05425@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19981208104711.00a36dd0@shell9.ba.best.com> >There's a great deal of legal commentary in Heinlein. my favorite, from _The Number of the Beast_ the protagonists land in an alternate universe, a very nice version of the US, a good safe haven. there are no lawyers, and all references to "The Year they Hung the Lawyers" have been scrubbed from the readily available history books... -landon (re-lurking) From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 8 12:50:44 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:50:44 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... Message-ID: <199812081844.TAA05951@replay.com> > Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports. It's > dead letter law. They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian. > > DCF What about the Martinez case? She was convicted of exporting a satellite TV descrambler because of its crypto hardware. Charles Booher is still facing possible prosecution for putting his SecureOffice program on his website. His Grand Jury hearing for possible indictment has been postponed, at last report. Can we be sure that he won't be indicted? From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 8 13:08:29 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:08:29 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <199812081915.OAA18143@mail1.panix.com> At 12:07 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. Well here's an article: How to Break the Law by Duncan Frissell http://eastedge.neurospace.net/cyber/xanner/lawbreak.html From mgering at ecosystems.net Tue Dec 8 13:21:29 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:21:29 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B335@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights. No, he's asking people who are willing to act in their own self-interest to protect the flow of strong crypto. Note he didn't even ask people to do so as civil disobedience (illegally), which I would myself be more than willing to do could I afford the bandwidth and legal fees. If you have no self-interest, then shut up and don't participate. You're in the USS Republic of Texas anyway. Matt "Anyone who fights for the future, lives in it today." --Ayn Rand From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 13:35:20 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:35:20 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd) Message-ID: <199812081949.NAA13070@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:20:00 -0800 > Jim Choate wrote: > > In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights. > No, he's asking people who are willing to act in their own self-interest to > protect the flow of strong crypto. Note he didn't even ask people to do so > as civil disobedience (illegally), which I would myself be more than willing > to do could I afford the bandwidth and legal fees. No, what he's asking people to do is provide a mechanism for politicaly controversial material to be made available in areas that are legal for those who are in areas where it isn't legal. If you seriously wish to propose that won't make you a target then you have no clue how LEA's work. While he does this behind the legal protection of EFF he's asking others to do it first person, something he apparently can't find the fortitude to do himself. Further, he's not willing to extend his legal protection to help others. > If you have no self-interest, then shut up and don't participate. You're in > the USS Republic of Texas anyway. What an ignorant statement. When is YOUR CDR node going up (email accounts are about $25/mo)? I've put up and continue to do so, when do you commit and then obtain the morale right to criticize others who are acting in their and YOUR best interest? I'd guess never, that takes a committment. Hell, if it wasn't for Igor and myself you wouldn't in all likelyhood even have this place to bitch. It would have disappered over a year ago. Nobody else (even the the co-creator TC May) was willing to save it. Now we've got 6 nodes (1 in Japan) which makes it very difficult to completely shut down legaly, physicaly, or through acts of God (eg tree falls or fires). You could put up a CDR node and finance it each month by smoking 1/4 ounce less of your pot. It's cheap, cheap, cheap. Piss off junior. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 13:40:39 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:40:39 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812082032.OAA13166@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:20:34 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > I don't know. But maybe Switzerland, a neutral country in wars, I suspect that with their reversal concerning anonymous numbered accounts and other similar changes in their laws and their enforcement that none of the fully developed countries in N. America, W. Europe, Pacific Rim would be good candidates for this sort of shenanigan without some legal backing from the get go. That leaves S. America, Africa, E. Europe, Middle East, India, and China. Not a lot of hope there. If it's not political issues, it's no economies, no modern infrastructure, religious, etc. Besides, do you really want to trust a country that funded the Nazi'a when they claimed neutrality? There continues neutrality is a ruse because it's convenient to trap those who aren't smart enough to ask why they manage to survive when their neighbors are toast. And it ain't because the mountains are high or everyone is armed. Just look at Barbarossa. > such a site could be erected. Of course it is a resource problem. No, it isn't. I fund my entire site for about $600/mo out of my own pocket. ISDN, DNS, 24 hour access, etc. That's cheap for fighting abuses of civil liberties by organizations whose bugdets are measured in big-B's. My main box (einstein) is a 486DX2/80 20M ram, 2G of drive running Linux 1.1.59 for the last 4 years. I just gave away 10 Sun 3/60's and HP/Apollo 400's that would be perfect for this sort of stuff except nobody is willing to do it. People are always giving me machines in the hope that I can either do something with them or can find somebody else who will; They're mighty rare (the people that is). I'm in the process of looking at DirectPC for a means to give my domain a fully functional mobile site. I'm looking at a couple of hundred dollars a month for that over a thousand or so for the hardware. Use Linux and run it off your car (Ok, I've a Brono II so it's a bit more convenient) via a converter. People are pretty intrigued when I put the dish in the back and drive around. Setup is easy, pull the dish from the back and clamp it on the baggage rack and site it. Hook a cell phone up for uplinks and sit back with a 400k max downlink. What's really cool is the dish I've been playing with has a DirectPC lmb and two DSS lmb's as well. The whole setup was less than $500 (minus the DSS tuners). I recognize that say $1k/mo. is a lot for most folks but the real interesting question is why the better funded cpunks aren't doing this sort of stuff when they claim such committment to the cause. Gilmore, TC May, etc. are clearly financialy capable of such activities. Such organizations as EFF and EF-Texas/Georgia clearly could raise these sorts of funds to further their suggestions to the rest of us, yet they don't. The best we get from them is requests for us to do it alone. There are times when I read some of May, Gilmore, Declan, etc. missives and wonder who it is they REALLY work for. Why is it they consistently don't follow through on their own suggestions? > But nowadays storage is getting cheaper. If one has a server machine, > it shouldn't be too big a problem to set up an archive. Yeah, two hours of work and it's there. Dirt simple. > to obtain a compiler and run the installation script. That way > storage space can be highly reduced. I'm buying 3G drives for less than $200 and I checked with John Young's archive and his entire archive is a tad over 200M. My guess is the entire web contents regarding crypto could be put down in a couple of gigs. Technical resources are not the issue. It's finding people who are willing to put themselves in harms way for their beliefs. Very few people have the strength of their convictions (most likely because they don't have any). I'd say most folks are motivated by mental masturbation. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 13:54:59 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:54:59 +0800 Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd) Message-ID: <199812082045.OAA13307@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:27:18 -0800 (PST) > From: Max Inux > Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area > Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back. One group of > 2-4 employees caused it they say. This was admitted 3 hours later, and > then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical. They expect to be > back on by this afternoon Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for Y2K in San Fran. Any rioting? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxinux at bigfoot.com Tue Dec 8 14:09:59 1998 From: maxinux at bigfoot.com (Max Inux) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:09:59 +0800 Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area Message-ID: Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back. One group of 2-4 employees caused it they say. This was admitted 3 hours later, and then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical. They expect to be back on by this afternoon On the Shell Building at 8:30AM "Building closed, no power. Power will not be restored for 6-8 hours." I wonder how they knew. The estimate is probably about right too, wierd. The mission village sub-station has been re-oppened, and most peoples power is now being revived. Funny how 2-4 people not following procedure were able to shut down 4 substations. Looks like PG&E have lots of work ahead to find out the cause/effect of this type action. Max -- Max Inux New DH and RSA keys Generated. Kinky Sex makes the world go round If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 8 14:11:03 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:11:03 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812082032.OAA13166@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812082111.QAA28988@camel8.mindspring.com> Jim wrote: An inspiring recipe for a mobile rig. Well done. Gotta get one, chop this tether. >I'd say most folks are motivated by mental masturbation. Right. That's my credo, life long. Love it. Want more. Now. Unh, unh, unh. Used to be called religious ecstacy, faith in god, metaphysical certainty, doubt erased by infinite wisdom, beatific blissful ignorance, vision brainward, sparkling ricochets, zing, zap, blit, parthogenesis. Hungry vet, got a dime? From declan at well.com Tue Dec 8 14:11:09 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:11:09 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981208155702.0147d100@mail.well.com> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read. -Declan From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Dec 8 14:30:58 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:30:58 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981208155702.0147d100@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <199812082113.PAA11007@manifold.algebra.com> Declan McCullagh wrote: > > At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with > >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner > >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You > >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. > > BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read. Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of his recommendations seem suspect. - Igor. From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 8 15:02:34 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:02:34 +0800 Subject: Altavista hacked Message-ID: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com> It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked. Begin Quote: If you are looking for pornographic material (naked people) please Click Here Else please check back with us soon, we are under construction. Thanks. End Quote Resolving *.digital.com DNS entries seems impossible. Any ideas? Wish DNSsec was deployed, it might of prevented this. From jtl at molehill.org Tue Dec 8 15:17:05 1998 From: jtl at molehill.org (Todd Larason) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:17:05 +0800 Subject: Altavista hacked In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com> Message-ID: <19981208141054.B29422@molehill.org> On 981208, Anonymous wrote: > > It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked. What does altaviata.com have to do with Alta Vista? > Wish > DNSsec was deployed, it might of prevented this. DNSsec will prevent typos? -- ICQ UIN: 126780687 From mgering at ecosystems.net Tue Dec 8 15:20:36 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:20:36 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B339@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > Further, he's not willing to extend his legal protection to help > others. Has there been any indication that the EFF would not support or help someone being persecuted for crypto-export disobedience? I wouldn't rely on such charity, nor is charity ever obligatory (that's socialism), but what reason do you have to discount it? The essence of civil disobedience is many many individual targets, not one organization. > When is YOUR CDR node going up Fine, if that is the source if your righteousness, I will put one up 1Q99. I won't even play the my network is bigger than your network pissing match, but I will put my money where my mouth is if you think hosting a list node is that big of a deal. I'm am not critical of any contribution, but I will be critical of someone chastising others contributions simply because they would do it differently. A call to arms to protect liberty is not a draft. If you don't want a gun, then don't take it, I won't even call you a Tory. Matt From maxinux at bigfoot.com Tue Dec 8 15:24:10 1998 From: maxinux at bigfoot.com (Max Inux) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:24:10 +0800 Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812082045.OAA13307@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote: >Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for >Y2K in San Fran. > >Any rioting? Suprisingly, no looting, major accideents (Only one was in the unaffected Fremont) by Mowry... dont go towards NAI or Great America ;-) Max New PGP Keys available From holovacs at idt.net Tue Dec 8 15:26:25 1998 From: holovacs at idt.net (Jay Holovacs) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:25 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981208173418.0072b52c@pop3.idt.net> At 12:07 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >I apologize for my ignorance. I am not very well aware of this Heinlein >fellow. > >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. > There is some general information about what to do if stopped by the police at the ACLU site: www.aclu.org In addition to the good advice that was given on this list to keep your mouth shut, I would like to comment on someone's earlier (several days ago) post. He had commented that the subject of spoofed messages came up in a discussion with an agent, and the agent asked about what this term meant. Don't let them draw you into such a discussion. They probably know damn well what these terms mean, they want to hear what you say they mean. You are being mind probed. Be polite, don't let them get you to say something angry or stupid, and say nothing more than civil response requires. Jay From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 15:26:44 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:44 +0800 Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd) Message-ID: <199812082249.QAA14262@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd) > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:26:52 -0800 > > Further, he's not willing to extend his legal protection to help > > others. > > Has there been any indication that the EFF would not support or help someone > being persecuted for crypto-export disobedience? I wouldn't rely on such I've asked many times from the local chapter and the answer was always no. The EFF has certainly never offered legal support to anyone in the 8 years or so they've been in existance, well other than Steve Jackson perhaps (I'm not sure if the EFF helped defray any of his court costs). > charity, nor is charity ever obligatory (that's socialism), but what reason > do you have to discount it? > > The essence of civil disobedience is many many individual targets, not one > organization. You should look into the history of civil disobedience then. The ONLY time it works is when it is done via mass involvement. The NAACP and ACLU have been quite effective within their limited areas of interest. Your understanding of the history of civil disobedience is skewed at best. > I'm am not critical of any contribution, but I will be critical of someone > chastising others contributions simply because they would do it differently. > A call to arms to protect liberty is not a draft. If you don't want a gun, > then don't take it, I won't even call you a Tory. Then you should rethink your approach. Somebody asking to put your neck on the block while they won't with their own is no contributor. I believe back in the War of Indipendence THOSE people were called Tory. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From a14u at a14u.com Wed Dec 9 07:30:31 1998 From: a14u at a14u.com (a14u at a14u.com) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:30:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Attention: All Sportsmen!!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: Sportsmen, are you into: Hunting, Fishing, Camping, Hiking, Biking, Climbing, Sports, Playing or just Work? Then you'll want to click here! Because you'll love what you see! http://www.a14u.com _______________________________________________________________________________ If you would like to be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "Remove" in the subject heading. You will be deleted from any further mailing. _______________________________________________________________________________ From mgering at ecosystems.net Tue Dec 8 15:38:03 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:38:03 +0800 Subject: FW: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Real Life Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B33A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> A survey has suggested that up to one and a half million British children may have been upset by something they have heard or read. The NOP poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 children between the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September and October this year were "uncomfortable" with the state of world affairs. In the UK, 7.2 million children are estimated to be exposed to the outside world - roughly 98% of all children between six and 16. Of those who have had negative experiences while being outside the home, the largest proportion - 40% - had seen something "rude". 'Not surprised' One in seven said they had encountered information that had "freightened them", while 25% heard ideas that "would get them into trouble". NOP Associate Director Rob Lawson described the numbers as a "significant minority". The children's charity NCH Action for Children suggested the survey strengthened calls for censorship to protect younger people. Charity spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some time. Censors "Parents need to know their children are learning in safety and security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all." NCH Action for Children, which advises the government on children's issues, backs the introduction of censors - people who filter out ideas unsuitable for children. The survey, called Kids.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the NSA, the GOP, China, and MCI/Worldcom in syndicate. The Department of Trade and Industry's forthcoming review on Internet regulation is expected to be published before Christmas. [satire on news from news.bbs.co.uk] From maxinux at bigfoot.com Tue Dec 8 15:45:40 1998 From: maxinux at bigfoot.com (Max Inux) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:45:40 +0800 Subject: Officers face suspension for email offenses: Half of Town's Police Force Involved Message-ID: Chief cleans house after half the Department makes fun of him via email on Patrol Car Computer Terminals (PDC's)... (Plus it's a rally cool website - listen to police scanners while you read FBI FOIA files on people like Frank Sinatra). OAKLAND, N.J. (APB) -- Half of this small borough's police force may be suspended for allegedly using computer terminals in their patrol cars to send one another disrespectful comments about the chief and the borough. http://www.apbonline.com/911/1998/12/06/oakland1206_1.html From mgering at ecosystems.net Tue Dec 8 15:52:08 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:52:08 +0800 Subject: FW: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Real Life Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B33B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Ack, I missed one. Revised: ---------- Subject: FW: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Real Life A survey has suggested that up to one and a half million British children may have been upset by something they have heard or read. The NOP poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 children between the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September and October this year were "uncomfortable" with the state of world affairs. In the UK, 7.2 million children are estimated to be exposed to the outside world - roughly 98% of all children between six and 16. Of those who have had negative experiences while being outside the home, the largest proportion - 40% - had seen something "rude". 'Not surprised' One in seven said they had encountered information that had "freightened them", while 25% heard ideas that "would get them into trouble". NOP Associate Director Rob Lawson described the numbers as a "significant minority". The children's charity NCH Action for Children suggested the survey strengthened calls for censorship to protect younger people. Charity spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some time. Censors "Parents need to know their children are learning in safety and security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all." NCH Action for Children, which advises the government on children's issues, backs the introduction of censors - people who filter out ideas unsuitable for children. The survey, called Kids.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the NSA, the GOP, China, and MCI/Worldcom in syndicate. The Department of Trade and Industry's forthcoming review on Thought regulation is expected to be published before Christmas. [satire on news from news.bbs.co.uk] From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 16:17:47 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:17:47 +0800 Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd) Message-ID: <199812082359.RAA14768@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:51:01 -0800 (PST) > From: Max Inux > Subject: Re: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd) > On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > >Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for > >Y2K in San Fran. > > > >Any rioting? > > Suprisingly, no looting, major accideents (Only one was in the unaffected > Fremont) by Mowry... dont go towards NAI or Great America ;-) Thanks for the feedback. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 8 16:21:35 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:21:35 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812081807.MAA06805@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: At 2:34 PM -0800 12/8/98, Jay Holovacs wrote: >There is some general information about what to do if stopped by the police >at the ACLU site: > >www.aclu.org > >In addition to the good advice that was given on this list to keep your >mouth shut, I would like to comment on someone's earlier (several days ago) >post. He had commented that the subject of spoofed messages came up in a >discussion with an agent, and the agent asked about what this term meant. >Don't let them draw you into such a discussion. They probably know damn >well what these terms mean, they want to hear what you say they mean. You >are being mind probed. > >Be polite, don't let them get you to say something angry or stupid, and say >nothing more than civil response requires. Not much you can say to them while standing out in the cold, in any case. (Surely you will not invite them into your home! As we all know, anything they happen to observe while doing a "wander through," even if on the way to a seat, is usable for the purposes of obtaining a search warrant.) I agree with Jay and others that attempting to "educate" them is a lost cause...John Perry Barlow discovered this some years back when he was interviewed by FBI agents over the Steve Jackson Games case (if I recall the particulars correctly). Talking to them about particular list personalities is _especially_ dangerous, as it helps them build whatever case they've decided to build. "Anything you say can and will be used against you." If O.J. didn't have to talk, either to the police, the DA, or in court, why should anyone else? (I know this does not encompass all witnesses, but it captures the key idea of the Fifth for us here. Let them issue a subpoena. And even then one may not have to talk.) They haven't tried to talk to me...at least they haven't either gotten through on my often-busy phone line nor have they driven out from Monterey or San Jose to my semi-rural home. I _hope_ I have the presence of mind to just tell them I won't be telling them anything. Just nothing, not even jabber about a lawyer. Just nothing. Maybe not even confirming my name...after all, I'm not driving and they can't compell me to produce a driver's license. I expect that if they stay around in my driveway, on my property, I'll call out for them to leave. Beyond that they'd be trespassing. If I slip up and say more, I'll try to swallow my pride and tell you all just how badly I screwed up. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 8 16:48:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:48:29 +0800 Subject: wassenar crypto agrmt/wiretapping Message-ID: <199812090001.QAA14558@netcom8.netcom.com> From: Jonathan David Boyne To: Undisclosed recipients:; Subject: [exploration] The Wassenaar Invasion of Privacy (fwd) >from: >http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.41/pageone.html >Laissez Faire City Times >- Volume 2 Issue 41 >The Laissez Faire City Times >December 7, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 41 >Editor & Chief: Emile Zola >----- >The Wassenaar Invasion of Privacy > >by J. Orlin Grabbe > > >>From the first moment it proclaimed the "information superhighway", the >Clinton administration has waged a wholesale assault on Internet free >speech and privacy. > >The latest blow is the Clinton administration's strong- arming of the 32 >fellow countries of the Wassenaar Arrangement to agree to an export ban >on strong cryptographic (data scrambling) software. The net effect will >be to make it easier for each government to read its own citizen's email >and other private documents. > >Normally if a nation attempts to restrict the domestic sale of strong >encryption software, that attempt is made ineffective by the >availability of strong encryption software from other countries. But >such software won't be available anymore--at least not from one of the >Wassenaar countries, once they have enacted local legislation to >implement the terms of the Wassenaar agreement of December 2. > >The Wassenaar Arrangement is supposed to be an intergovernmental >agreement to restrict international traffic in arms. What does this have >to do with encryption? Simply this: the US government still holds that >secret-code-producing software is a munition. So if you encrypt your >letters and files, and the government hasn't given you permission to use >that caliber encryption, then the person who gave you the encryption >software may be in violation of some regulation on arms dealing. > >"They've plugged a loophole," gleefully proclaimed Ambassador David >Aaron, the President's Special Envoy for Cryptology. The day following >the agreement, the US Department of Commerce issued a press release in >which Aaron spouts gobble-de-gook phrases about a "level playing field" >and about balancing "commercial and privacy interests with national >security and public safety concerns" (see Appendix A for Commerce Dept. >press statement). > >How has this agreement supposedly created a "level playing field" and >helped U.S. industry? Well, namely, by censoring foreign publishers of >cryptology software in the same way that the US government already >censors US publishers. This is similar to arguing that by increasing >tyranny in surrounding countries, we can create a "level playing field" >for freedom. > >"It's ironic, but the US government is leading the charge >internationally to restrict personal privacy and individual liberty >around the world," said Alan Davidson, a staff counsel at the Center for >Democracy and Technology, according to Reuters (see Appendix B for >Reuter's news release). > >A restriction on cryptology is a restriction on free speech. In the >Second World War, the US used native Navaho speakers for secure >communications. Since no one else understood the language, it served as >a powerful secret code. But is what you speak or write in an email >message suddenly not speech or language if the government can't >understand it? If your message says "Xu23MN iilc]z MNBl", does the >government suddenly have the right to imprison you for writing >gibberish? > >While the clear answer is No, nevertheless the US government thinks it >has the right to restrict your "gibberish" if it is produced by >encryption software that it can't crack. The Wassenaar agreement says >encryption software that is "weak" (less than 56 bit keys in some cases, >or less than 64 bit keys in others), so that the government can >unscramble and read the real message underneath the gibberish, is okay, >and in fact frees up some export restrictions on this type of software. >The trade-off? Greater restrictions on software that produces secret >code the government can't read. > >Arms control. It sounds wonderful, doesn't it? Go over to the Wassenaar > web page and take a look. High nobility of purpose, right? "We're >keeping those guns away from the Indians," they proclaim. But what they >mean to say is: "We fully intend to read what is written on the hard >drive of your computer." > >Posting to the cypherpunks mailing list, Timothy May noted: > >I recently heard T. J. Rodgers, CEO of Cypress Semiconductor, repeat his >oft-made point that Silicon Valley and the high tech industry gains >nothing by talking to Washington. That as soon as dialog is started with >Washington, things get worse. This applies as well to crypto, to gun >rights, to everything. Everything Washington touches turns to statist >shit. > >Is there any good news? Enabling legislation has to be enacted in each >country to carry out the terms of the Wassenaar agreement. Raising a hue >and cry with legislators over this latest invasion of privacy should >have a positive effect. > >In the meantime, Mr. "Information Superhighway" Al Gore is poised for a >presidential run, so he can continue to ignore privacy concerns and bend >over for the Big Brother agencies of the national security >establishment. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Related Links > >�The End of Ordinary Money: Part 1 >�The End of Ordinary Money: Part 2 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Appendix A: Commerce Dept. Press Release > > >UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE NEWS > >International Trade Administration > >Washington, DC > >For Immediate Release >Tuesday, December 3, 1998 > >Contact: Maria Harris Tildon > (202)482-3809 > Sue Hofer > (202)482-2721 > >P R E S S S T A T E M E N T > >U.S. Applauds Agreement on Encryption in International Export >Control Regime > >Vienna, Austria -- The United States welcomed the decision taken >Thursday in Vienna by the 33 members of the Wassenaar Arrangement >to modernize and improve multilateral encryption export controls. >Ambassador David Aaron, the President's Special Envoy for Cryptology, >said that "the international agreement reached here goes a long way >toward leveling the playing field for exporters and promoting >electornic commerce. It provides countries with a stronger >regulatory framework to protect national security and public safety." > >The agreement caps a two year effort by the United States, to update >international encryption export controls and to balance commercial >and privacy interests with national security and public safety >concerns. Thursday's agreement simplifies and streamlines controls >on many encryption items and eliminates multilateral reporting >requirements. Specific improvements to multilateral encryption >controls include removing controls on all encryption products at >or below 56 bit and certain consumer entertainment TV systems, such >as DVD products, and on cordless telephone systems designed for >home or office use. > >Wassenaar members also agreed to extend controls to mass-market >encryption above 64 bits, thus closing a significant loophole in >multilateral encryption controls. This gives Wassenaar member >governments the legal authority to license many mass market >encryption software exports which were previously not covered by >multilateral controls and enables governments to review the >dissemination of the strongest encryption products that might >fall into the hands of rogue end users. The new controls also >extend liberalized mass-market hardware below 64 bits. Until >today, only mass-market software products enjoyed this >liberalized treatment. > >"The decisions taken here in Vienna reinforce the Administration's >efforts to promote a balanced encryption policy," Aaron confirmed. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Appendix B: Reuters News Release > > >Thursday, 3 December 1998 12:57:40 > >U.S. claims success in curbing encryption trade > >Aaron Pressman, Reuters, Washington newsroom, 202-898-8312 > >WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Clinton administration officials >Thursday said they had persuaded other leading countries to >impose strict new export controls on computer >data-scrambling products under the guise of arms control. > >At a meeting Thursday in Vienna, the 33 nations that have >signed the Wassenaar Arrangement limiting arms exports -- >including Japan, Germany and Britain -- agreed to impose >controls on the most powerful data-scrambling technologies, >including for the first time mass-market software, U.S. >special envoy for cryptography David Aaron told Reuters. > >The United States, which restricts exports of a wide range of >data-scrambling products and software -- also known as >encryption -- has long sought without success to persuade >other countries to impose similar restrictions. > >``We think this is very important in terms of bringing a level >playing field for our exporters,'' Aaron said. > >Leading U.S. high-technology companies, including Microsoft >Corp. and Intel Corp., have complained that the lack of >restrictions in other countries hampered their ability to >compete abroad. The industry has sought to have U.S. >restrictions relaxed or repealed, but has not asked for tighter >controls in other countries. > >Privacy advocates have also staunchly opposed U.S. export >controls on encryption, arguing that data-scrambling >technologies provided a crucial means of protecting privacy in >the digital age. > >``It's ironic, but the U.S. government is leading the charge >internationally to restrict personal privacy and individual >liberty around the world,'' said Alan Davidson, staff counsel at >the Center for Democracy and Technology, a Washington-based >advocacy group. > >Special envoy Aaron said the Wassenaar countries agreed to >continue export controls on powerful encryption products in >general but decided to end an exemption for widely available >software containing such capabilities. > >``They plugged a loophole,'' Aaron said. > >The new policy also reduced reporting and paperwork >requirements and specifically excluded from export controls >products that used encryption to protect intellectual property >-- such as movies or recordings sent over the Internet -- from >illegal copying, Aaron said. > >Encryption uses mathematical formulas to scramble >information and render it unreadable without a password or >software ``key.'' One important measure of the strength of the >encryption is the length of the software key, measured in bits, >the ones and zeros that make up the smallest unit of computer >data. > >With the increasing speed and falling prices of computers, >data encrypted with a key 40 bits long that was considered >highly secure several years ago can now be cracked in a few >hours. Cutting-edge electronic commerce and communications >programs typically use 128-bit or longer keys. > >Under Thursday's agreement, Wassenaar countries would >restrict exports of general encryption products using more >than 56-bit keys and mass-market products with keys more >than 64 bits long, Aaron said. > >Each country must now draft its own rules to implement the >agreement. > >-30- > >from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol. 2, No. 41, Dec. 7, 1998 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Laissez Faire City Times is a private newspaper. Although it is >published by a corporation domiciled within the sovereign domain of >Laissez Faire City, it is not an "official organ" of the city or its >founding trust. Just as the New York Times is unaffiliated with the city >of New York, the City Times is only one of what may be several news >publications located in, or domiciled at, Laissez Faire City proper. For >information about LFC, please contact CityClerk at LFCity.co > >Published by >Laissez Faire City Netcasting Group, Inc. >Copyright 1998 - Trademark Registered with LFC Public Registrar >All Rights Reserved >----- >Aloha, He'Ping, >Om, Shalom, Salaam. >Em Hotep, Peace Be, >Omnia Bona Bonis, >All My Relations. >Adieu, Adios, Aloha. >Amen. >Roads End >Kris > >DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER >========== >CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic >screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters >and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright >frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects >spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL >gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; >be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and >nazi's need not apply. > >Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > >======================================================================== >To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM > >To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM > >Om > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sponsored by NextCard Internet Visa. http://ads.egroups.com/click/136/1 Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com - - --------------F29987D12CAF6600E1F2D03D-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 8 16:49:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:49:29 +0800 Subject: libertarians advocate suing govt Message-ID: <199812090001.QAA14587@netcom8.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Subject: Release: Sue the Government? Date: Tue, 08 Dec 98 01:02:13 PST From: announce at lp.org To: announce at lp.org (Libertarian Party announcements) - - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ======================================= NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY 2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100 Washington DC 20037 ======================================= For release: December 8, 1998 ======================================= For additional information: George Getz, Press Secretary Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222 E-Mail: 76214.3676 at Compuserve.com ======================================= A radical idea: Why can't people sue politicians for their deadly programs? WASHINGTON, DC -- If politicians can sue gun and tobacco companies for damages caused by their products, why can't ordinary Americans sue politicians for the destruction caused by their products: Government programs? "Government programs -- such as wars, exploding automotive air bags, and grisly radiation experiments -- have killed and maimed tens of thousands of Americans over the years," said Steve Dasbach, national director of the Libertarian Party. "Americans shouldn't tolerate a double standard of justice, one for the politicians and one for the people. It's time to start holding the government accountable." What started Libertarians thinking in this direction? The fact that 41 state governments are about to divvy up a $40 billion settlement against tobacco companies, said Dasbach -- and the fact that several big-city mayors are deciding whether to join New Orleans in its lawsuit against gun manufacturers. With those legal actions serving as an inspiration, he said, why not prosecute the government for: * War deaths: "Recent military actions totally unrelated to U.S. national security -- like those in the Persian Gulf, Lebanon, Panama, and Somalia -- have claimed hundreds of American lives," Dasbach said. "If gun company executives can be held liable when criminals use guns irresponsibly, why not hold presidents and Congressmen liable when they use American troops irresponsibly?" * Cancer deaths: "The federal government admitted last year that Cold War nuclear tests exposed 230,000 Americans to high levels of radioactive iodine, and may cause 75,000 people to develop fatal thyroid cancer," Dasbach said. "If it's fair to force tobacco companies to pay for smoking-related illnesses, it's fair to force the government to pay for legislation-related illnesses -- like thyroid cancer." * Air-bag deaths: "According to the federal government, 49 children have been killed by government-mandated air bags," Dasbach said. "Their grieving parents ought to file wrongful-death suits against the Congressmen who demanded this law and the Transportation Department bureaucrats who wrote it." * Alcohol-related deaths: "Eighteen state governments control the liquor stores that operate within their borders," Dasbach said. "So why aren't those state politicians and bureaucrats sued for the cost of every alcohol-related car crash?" * Deaths caused by gun-control laws: "According to a landmark study last year by criminologists John R. Lott and David B. Mustard, the refusal of 24 state governments to pass concealed-carry laws caused an additional 1,414 murders, 4,177 rapes, and 60,363 aggravated assaults in 1992 alone," Dasbach said. "Residents of these states ought to file an immediate injunction to prevent these victim-disarmament laws from causing more innocent blood to be shed." * Deaths caused by criminals on parole: "According to Department of Justice figures, murderers are freed from prison an average of 11.6 years before their full sentence expires; armed robbers are sprung 5 years early; and rapists are back on the streets 5.9 years early," Dasbach said. "The politicians who handed these murderers, robbers, and rapists get-out-of-jail-early cards -- usually so they could fill the jails with people convicted of victimless crimes -- ought to be charged as an accessory to every crime these violent thugs commit." * Gambling-related suicides: "Heavily advertised state-sponsored lotteries siphon billions of dollars a year from America's poor, and are directly responsible for uncountable numbers of gambling-related bankruptcies, suicides, and broken homes," Dasbach said. "Since politicians addicted to taxes are harming vulnerable Americans addicted to gambling, shouldn't the state officials who run these destructive lotteries be held personally responsible?" But Libertarians aren't holding their breath waiting for the government to be brought to justice, Dasbach admitted. "Courts have consistently ruled that government is protected from prosecution by the legal doctrine of sovereign immunity," he said. "According to the courts, death-by-government programs are not against the law. "But wouldn't America be a much safer country if politicians were held to the same standard as any other individual? "Unfortunately, unless that happens, prosecution-proof politicians will continue to escape the consequences of their actions -- while hypocritically sending ordinary Americans off to jail." - - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNmzhy9CSe1KnQG7RAQES5wP6Ap6aRD4XRSWEEnC+2Vz5+ix8aQg4ss+3 srlja3yDIqsh94SIo1xoIESwZ/61DEpXyvhO/PdJ0xt6wtcFWNkAGbt1VVyr26Tx O+2Qv3NMcHq7ISSMV1SGHYuuRsCuAg/om+PU39NxNfj60eTMpEkPDz0wyAm9XFxu 3c0bMkh+0Zw= =qedo - - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- The Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ 2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100 voice: 202-333-0008 Washington DC 20037 fax: 202-333-0072 For subscription changes, please mail to with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line -- or use the WWW form. - - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.inannareturns.com "See God in Every Eye" --Inanna, Goddess of Love V.S. Ferguson author, Inanna Returns and Inanna Hyper-Luminal - - --------------54D4A0A30C2370EF22396E74-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From declan at well.com Tue Dec 8 17:06:41 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:06:41 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981208155702.0147d100@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com> Well, if you're worried about worst-case scenarios (or variants on them) it's as good as any and probably better than most. They've got everything from gun tips to goat-raising. I enjoyed it, FWIW. It doesn't make a pretense of saying what-if like a bunch of the other books does: this says social unrest is damn near certain. -Declan At 03:13 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Declan McCullagh wrote: >> >> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with >> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner >> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You >> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. >> >> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read. > >Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of >his recommendations seem suspect. > > - Igor. > From bix at geekforce.org Tue Dec 8 17:45:16 1998 From: bix at geekforce.org (b!X) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:45:16 +0800 Subject: Altavista hacked In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: # It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked. *yawn* - b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist) (Global Effort to Eradicate Know-nothings) (Operation Primate Purge - http://www.geekforce.org/field/purge.shtml) From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 8 17:45:36 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:45:36 +0800 Subject: spy cameras Message-ID: <199812090104.RAA19228@netcom8.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:18:29 -0500 From: Dan S Subject: [CTRL] Smart spy cameras on the way To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- >From : http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=001036222020742&rtmo=VqqqD8sK&atmo=kkkkkkku&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html&pg=/et/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html - - Smart spy cameras on the way By Patrick Hook POLICE scientists are close to a major breakthrough that will allow CCTV cameras to "recognise" criminal activity. Using leading-edge neural and pattern recognition technologies, developed for space and defence applications, scientists are confident that it will shortly be possible to police whole areas of the country automatically and alert the authorities to criminal activity. Speaking at a recent London conference organised by the research and development group SIRA, Dr Mike Taylor, head of technology operations at Scotland Yard, said the main barrier to the development of such a system was the quality of the images that were generally produced by existing CCTV equipment.""It is perfectly feasible to develop software which can distinguish certain actions, but the quality of image capture means that it is often difficult to see exactly what is going on," he said. "The quality is, it seems, in direct proportion to the amount of effort that users are prepared to invest in such systems. Since its introduction more than 20 years ago, the need for such technology has increased, and intelligent sensory information processing and information fusing is going to play a very key part in crime management. The next step is to add other sensory devises such as microphones to pick up the sound of breaking glass and sensors that can detect the smell of particular substances and trigger an appropriate response." The work is part of a research programme into an area of security that has been identified by the government's Foresight Challenge as a priority for further study. Drawn from a range of organisations, including the police, the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency and the Home Office, the work of the team is being partly funded by Brussels. Most of the research is centred on the fusing of information from several sources to present a more accurate report of what the CCTV camera has seen. "The additional cost of a microphone or other sensor is not likely to be great," said Taylor, "and should make a significant difference to the ability of the police to detect criminal activity." Not everyone is enthusiastic, however. John Wadham, director of Liberty, said: "It's difficult to see how this kind of technology would work accurately in practice. It could result in officers' time being wasted investigating incidents - and indeed individuals - which turn out to be entirely innocent. I do wonder whether we have enough surveillance already. Surveillance technology is better at protecting property than people and is still not adequately regulated to protect privacy." - -- dan at southeast.net DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om ------- End of Forwarded Message From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 8 17:45:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:45:43 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol Message-ID: <199812090113.CAA09872@replay.com> x at x.com asks about Wei Dei's b-money proposal: >there must be something here that I'm missing. At the core of this >protocol seems to be the establishment not of crypto anarchy but of a >crypto elite. in this scheme only the processors of computing power have >economic power. Now I realize that our current economic system is based on >economic power being invested in a closed community of powerful elites, and >is by no means egalitarian, but this looks to be like simply substituting >one group of "haves" for a different group of "haves" > >I have to admit not being familiar with the Orthodoxy of crypto anarchy, >but if the premise is a centerless self organizing system of free agents >this protocol seems to miss the mark. or what is it that I am missing here? The description is intended to show how money is transferred, and how it is created. These are technically difficult issues when dealing with electronic money, and that is what the proposal addresses. It is not anticipated that most people will make money by using their computing power. That feature is only used when the money supply needs to expand, because of increased economic activity. Instead, people will generally get money the same way they do today: someone will give it to them, either as a gift or as payment. You are free to give your money to whomever you want to, and you are free to offer your goods and services in exchange for money. Such exchanges of money should be much greater in volume than the amount of new money which is created by burning computer cycles. From james at wired.com Tue Dec 8 17:50:06 1998 From: james at wired.com (James Glave) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:50:06 +0800 Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812090115.RAA25822@hardly.hotwired.com> http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16710.html SF Blackout: Y2K Dress Rehearsal by Chris Oakes and Craig Bicknell , Wired News 12:40 p.m. 8.Dec.98.PST When the lights went out Tuesday on nearly 1 million San Francisco Bay Area residents, the blackout served as a warning of what might happen in a society dependent upon electricity for basic services and commerce. "This could very well be a reflection of a Y2K disaster that's not properly managed," said Nancy Wong, a spokeswoman for the US Critical Infrastructure Assurance Office. "It's another reminder of how tremendously dependent everyone is on power," added Peter Neumann, a critical infrastructure expert and the author of the book Computer Related Risks. "It's kind of a harbinger of the Year 2000 problem. We're in practice mode right now." ....more.... James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com +1 (415) 276-8430 From james at wired.com Tue Dec 8 17:58:05 1998 From: james at wired.com (James Glave) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:58:05 +0800 Subject: Altavista hacked In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812090113.RAA25662@hardly.hotwired.com> Good thing http://www.altavista.com/ is still up! *grin* At 11:03 PM 12/8/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: > >It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked. > >Begin Quote: >If you are looking for pornographic material (naked people) > please Click Here > > Else please check back with us soon, we are under > construction. > >Thanks. > >End Quote > >Resolving *.digital.com DNS entries seems impossible. Any ideas? Wish >DNSsec was deployed, it might of prevented this. > James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com +1 (415) 276-8430 From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 8 18:00:42 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:00:42 +0800 Subject: Reinsch On Crypto/Wassenaar Message-ID: <199812090127.UAA10345@camel8.mindspring.com> Excerpt from a speech by BXA's William Reinsch on December 7, 1998, at the Practising Law Institute conference "Coping with U.S. Export Controls." Note final paragraph about detailed crypto session today -- no report on that yet. Full speech: http://jya.com/war120798-2.htm Also by him yesterday on crypto: http://jya.com/war120798.htm [Begin excerpt] Encryption continues to be a hotly debated issue. As I stated last year, the U.S. continues to support a balanced approach to encryption policy which considers privacy and commercial interests as well as protecting law enforcement and national security interests. Furthermore, we also remain committed to promoting the growth of global electronic commerce through secure financial and business communications. Our position has always been to seek industry-led, market-driven solutions to achieve a balanced approach. What has changed is the direction where technology and the market place are taking us. Key recovery technology remains a very important part of our policy; however, over the past two years, we have recognized that key recovery is not a solution for all problems. That recognition, brought about in part as a result of our ongoing dialogue with industry, has helped us also focus on recoverable technologies that can enable law enforcement to continue its authorized activities. As a result, on September 16, Vice President Gore unveiled a policy update, which will not end the debate, but which does include steps to further streamline exports of key recovery products and other recoverable products which allow law enforcement, under proper legal authority, recovery of plain text. The update also provides for 1) the export of 56 bit DES worldwide to any end user under a license exception; 2) exports of strong encryption to U.S. companies and their subsidiaries under a license exception; 3) exports of strong encryption to the insurance and medical sectors in 45 countries under a license exception; and 4) exports of strong encryption to secure on-line transactions between on-line merchants and their customers in 45 countries under a license exception. This is consistent with our earlier announcement relating to financial institutions. This is an evolutionary process and we intend to continue our dialogue. We must continue to adapt to changes, and we will review our policies again within the year to determine whether further change is necessary. We intend to publish regulations implementing the Vice President's announcement this month. With respect to developing a common international approach to encryption policy, Ambassador David Aaron, our special envoy on cryptography, is working with other countries to ensure that our policies are compatible. He has found that most major producing countries have public safety and national security concerns similar to ours and are interested in developing a harmonized international approach regarding compatible infrastructures for electronic commerce and for a key management infrastructure. At last week's Wassenaar Arrangement plenary session, the participating states approved a number of changes to modernize and improve multilateral encryption export controls. These changes removed controls on products below 56 bits and on certain consumer entertainment systems, such as DVD products, and on cordless phone systems designed for home or office use. Most important, participating states agreed to extend controls to mass-market encryption exports above 64 bits, thus closing a significant loophole. This will enable governments to review the dissemination of the strongest encryption products that otherwise might fall into the hands of rogue end users. For those of you deeply interested in the details of our encryption policy, we have a specific session devoted to it tomorrow. [End excerpt] From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 8 18:32:34 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:32:34 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] Feds And FDIC To Monitor All Your Personal Financial Activities Message-ID: <199812090136.RAA21868@netcom8.netcom.com> From: DrErebus at AOL.COM Subject: [CTRL] Feds And FDIC To Monitor All Your Personal Financial Activities Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:11:25 EST To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- Feds And FDIC To Monitor All Your Personal Financial Activities 12-1-98 The following is direct quote from the first page of FDIC document (6174-01) (12 CFR Part 326) Notice of proposed rulemaking. "SUMMARY: The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured nonmember banks to adopt and maintain "Know Your Customer" programs. As proposed, the regulation would require each nonmember bank to develop a program designed to determine the identity of its customers; determine its customers' sources of funds; determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers; monitor account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal and expected transactions; and report any transactions of its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FDIC's existing suspicious activity reporting regulation. ---" The things to be very concerned about in this case are the PROFILE PARAMETERS that in turn define the various limits that when exceed, qualify as an exception to the norm and thus must be reported to another federal agency, as a suspicious transaction. There is virtually no limit to the number or type of profile parameters that can be established. For example, is the customer an 8 foot tall white male weighing in excess of 400 pounds or is the customer a four foot tall black female weighing less than 90 pounds. The question or questions (and there are many questions) then becomes, who will be responsible for establishing, defining and controlling the limitless number of possible profile parameters? Who will be responsible for adding, changing and deleting established profile parameters? Who will be responsible for insuring that this awesome and massive capability will not be misused and abused by the various departments of the Federal Government. In other words, is the 8 foot tall white male an exception to the norm or is the 4 foot tall black female the exception or, are both the upper limit and the lower limit considered as an exception to the norm. How about all those in between? As noted in the quoted SUMMARY of the document identified above, the "key operative statements" are as follows; 1. Identify its customers. 2. Determine its customers' source of funds. 3. Determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers. 4. Monitor account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal and expected transactions. 5. Report any transactions of its customers that are determined to be suspicious ---. Before we briefly examine the five individual requirements noted above, and so that you will understand where"I" am coming from, please be aware of the fact that, in addition to being a Baptist Preacher, I have been a Data Processing Systems Analyst for some 48+ years. At least half of that time was spent working for the Federal Government, designing and installing total Data Processing Facilities, from the Presidents Battle Staff, to the Congress, to the Department of defense, to the local Church name and address data base. I have written and taught several college courses: (a) Management of Data Processing Facilities and (b) Systems Analysis. One of the first things that I always tell the new students in my Systems Analysis class is "In the field of electronic data processing, your only limitation is you own imagination. If you can rationalize it in your mind, 'electronic' data processing can do it." Now, given that background and qualifications let me tell you, in no uncertain terms, -- I know exactly what the Federal Government is up to. I know exactly what information they are looking for; I know exactly how to get that information and I know exactly how they plan to eventually use that information. Requirement # 1: Identify its customers. I have no problem with this requirement so long as that identifying information is limited to name, mailing address and an account number generated by the "local" financial institution and assigned to a particular account to provide unique identification, but absolutely nothing more. Requirement # 2: Determine its customers' source of funds. This I have a BIG problem with. Even though the government would like for you to believe that this requirement is related to identifying "possible" illegal money laundering by drug traffickers, that is not the only reason they want to know the source of your finances. Remember now, the ultimate objective of the vast majority of government regulations and programs are directed at controlling the "individual." This item required that you advise the bank of all the sources that you will be receiving money from that you will be depositing in this particular account. We will expand this item in more detail below. Requirement # 3. Determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers. For purposed of this discussion we will consider only four primary parameters related to deposits and withdrawals against this particular account. First: When you established a new checking account you will be required to identify the number of deposits you expect to make each month and the average amount of each deposit. For example (a) military retirement pay = $2,000.00, (b) Social Security Income = $400.00, (c) Rent from income property = $750.00, (d) Interest from stocks & bonds = $ 300.00, and so on. Second: You will be required to identify the number of withdrawals you expect to make each month from this account and the estimated amount of each withdrawal. For example; (a) Mortgage payment=$ 800.00, (b) Car Payment = $250.00, (c) College tuition = $ 1,000.00). Once the average number of deposits and the average amount of each deposit has been determined and the average number of withdrawals and the average amount of each withdrawal has been established, it will be very easy to identify all transactions, in and out, that exceed the established norms for this particular account. For example should you find a paper bag on the side of the highway containing 10,000 well used one dollar bills, or Aunt Sue passed away and left you 10,000 well used one dollar bills and you deposited that windfall in your checking or savings account, that would immediately be detected as exceeding the established norms for your account. Requirement # 4. Monitor account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal and expected transactions. This requirement establishes the requirement that each financial institution establish a procedure to monitor your financial accounts on a regular basis for any transactions that exceed the established norms as illustrated above. Requirement # 5. Report any transactions of its customers that are determined to be suspicious ---. This requirement requires that all financial institutions immediately report any and all suspicious transactions detected as a result of deposits or withdrawals that exceed the established norms for your account. As I was reviewing the aforementioned FDIC document, as quoted above, I called a long time friend of mine who is vice president of a local bank that I do business with. I ask my vice president friend to identify the government agency(s) to which he would report such a suspicious transaction. His response was, the IRS and the FBI, at the national level. My friends, as a long time ADP/EDP Systems Analyst I want you to pay particular attention to the following. Whenever a good and successful Information (Data) Processing Systems Analyst designs a large scale information processing system, such as what we have been talking about above, he will ALWAYS allow for future expansion of "existing" applications and processing capabilities and his design work will also allow for "additional" applications and processing capabilities to be added with a minimum of additional effort and cost. Based on my 48+ plus years in the business, let me tell you what you can expect in the very near future if the proposed "rulemaking" provisions as defined in the FDIC document identified above are allowed to be implemented. Please, read the following very carefully because it lays out the route our government is taking toward a cashless society as required by the design of a one world government under the United Nations. 1. PRESENTLY ALL recipients of military retirement pay MUST have a bank account into which their monthly retirement pay is electronically transferred. The government will no longer pay individual retirees directly, or send their retirement pay to a home address. This is part of an over all plan to extended more absolute control over the individual. It has absolutely nothing to do with economy as the government would have you to believe. 2. In the very near future look for legislation that will "require" ALL government employees, federal, state and local, to have a bank account into which their salary will also be electronically transferred, just like the retired military. In as much as most government employees already have the direct deposit option available, it requires only vary simple legislation to complete this phase of the plan. 3. Next you will see legislation that will outlaw the direct payment of all wages or salaries to any individual, by an employer. All employees who work for a wage or salary, will also be required to have a bank account into which the employer will be required to direct deposit their salary. And once again the legislation necessary to accomplish phase of the plan is very simple and easy to implement, simply because most business would welcome the reduced payroll cost. The governments objective here is to eventually make the local financial institution the only source of legal tender for the individual. At this point and for the purpose of this paper, legal tender is defined as dollars, debit cards or other credit cards. When objectives 2 & 3 above have been fully accomplished, it will then be a very simple matter to implement the rest of the plan. Let me explain it this way. The total plan equates to $1.00 (One dollar) When steps 2 & 3 have been fully implemented, as step 1 has already been accomplished, that will equate to $ .95 cents of that $1.00. The rest of the plan equates to only 5 cents out of that one dollar. And just what is the rest of the plan? It's very simple. After steps 1, 2 and 3 as noted above have been fully implemented, the only thing left to do then would be to outlaw all cash transactions and require all transactions now involving cash, be accomplished through the use of checks or smart cards followed by the eventual elimination of the checks. At that point the federal government can then trace, track AND CONTROL ALL TRANSACTIONS, simply because all transactions will then be processed by massive computer systems controlled by the federal government. Given the above accomplishments and current electronic capabilities, the ability to exercise absolute control over "individuals" provided by the additional five cents noted above are absolutely mind boggling. There are many, many more reasons that all Americans should and must oppose implementation of the five (5) requirements identified above. There are TWO things that every American should do, immediately. First: All Americans should send a letter to the FDIC expressing their STRONG objection and opposition to the plan to PROFILE individual bank accounts for what ever purpose. The FDIC will be accepting public comments until December 27. Send your comments to: Robert E. Feldman, Executive Secretary Attention: Comments/OES, FDIC 550 17th Street, NW Washington, DC 20429 --- Spectre From the wording of this "Sunshing Act Meeting" chaired by the Board of Governors for the Federal Reserve System, the FDIC is "only following orders." Please find below a replica of the *notice*: ________________________________________________________________ [Federal Register: September 28, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 187)] [Notices] [Page 51579] >From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [http://www.wais.access.gpo.gov] [DOCID:fr28se98-60] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM Sunshine Act Meeting Agency Holding the Meeting: Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. Time and Date: 10:00 a.m., Thursday, October 1, 1998. Place: Marriner S. Eccles Federal Reserve Board Building, C Street entrance between 20th and 2lst Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20553. Status: Open. Matters to be Considered: Summary Agenda: Because of its routine nature, no discussion of the following item is anticipated. This matter will be voted on without discussion unless a member of the Board requests that the item be moved to the discussion agenda. 1. Publication for comment of proposed amendments to Regulation H (Membership of State Banking Institutions in the Federal Reserve Qystem), Regulation K (International Banking Operations), and Regulation Y (Bank Holding Companies and Change in Bank Control) to require domestic and foreign banking organizations to develop and maintain ``Know Your Customer'' programs. 2. Any items carried forward from a previously announced meeting. Discussion Agenda: None. No Discussion Items Are Scheduled For This Meeting. Note: If an item is moved from the Summary Agenda to the Discussion Agenda, discussion of the item will be recorded. Cassettgs will then be available for listening in the Board's Freedom of Information Office, and copies can be ordered for $6 per cassette by calling 202-452-3684 or by writing to: Freedom of Information Office, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, Washington, D.C. 20551. Contact Person for More Information: Lynn S. Fox, Assistant to the Board; 202-452-3204. Supplementary Information: You may call 202-452-3006 for a recorded announcement of this meeting; or you may contact the Board's Web site at http://www.federalreserve.gov for an electronic announcement. (The Web site also includes procedural and other information about the open meeting.) Dated: September 24, 1998. Robert deV. Frierson, Associate Secretary of the Board. [FR Doc. 98-25960 Filed 9-24-98; 11:19 am] BILLING CODE 6210-01-P ___________________________________________________________ The rule[s] will not be published in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) until the proposed rule[s] is finalized. These rule changes will be to Regulations H, K and Y pertaining to Banking administration procedures. The proposed changes *may* be all inclusive within 12 CFR 326 - I wouldn't begin to guess until the final rules are drafted. Perhaps this is the reason why Mr. Ingram was unable to find what he was looking for. In the interim, I suggest caution, research and a thoroughly checking your sources before labeling anything a *Hoax* or stating something as fact if you don't know first hand or from personal experience. If anything, the obvious fact this determination was dictated by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System ...well, I'll leave that to your readers to decide the relevancy or merit of the Board's decree. If you would like additional information, please feel free to contact me. Lynn Shaffer fadaar at psn.net DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om From alan at clueserver.org Tue Dec 8 18:58:48 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:58:48 +0800 Subject: spy cameras In-Reply-To: <199812090104.RAA19228@netcom8.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > >From : > http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=001036222020742&rtmo=VqqqD8sK&atmo=kkkkkkku&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html&pg=/et/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html > - - > Smart spy cameras on the way > > By Patrick Hook > > POLICE scientists are close to a major breakthrough that will allow CCTV > cameras to "recognise" criminal activity. Why does this remind me of the book "Agent of Chaos" by Norman Spinrad? For those of you who have not read the book (and you should), the uber-police state was run by a master computer that could "recognise criminal behaviour" and immediatly kill anyone engaged in such activities. You find out later that it is not quite what it seems. alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 8 18:59:24 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:59:24 +0800 Subject: Altavista hacked In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com> Message-ID: At 2:03 PM -0800 12/8/98, Anonymous wrote: >It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked. > >Begin Quote: >If you are looking for pornographic material (naked people) > please Click Here > There is a typographic error in this URL. The naked people pictures are at: www.altaviagra.com --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From 54+6 Wed Dec 9 12:06:49 1998 From: 54+6 (54+6) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:06:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: CALL 1-800-HOT-PUSSY....CALL NOW!! Message-ID: <199812092006.MAA18532@toad.com> Hi Sexy, I am lonely waiting for you to call me. Let me be the "Little Secret" in your life! WARNING!! These lines are extremely xxx-rated. Adults over 18 only!!! Sex starved girls will give you a hot sexual experience you'll never forget. Not recommended for people with weak hearts or bad backs!!! Call 1-800-HOT-PUSSY(468-7877) $2.99-$4.99 per min. Billed by Teleworld Visa/Mastercard/Amex Must be over 18 Call 1-900-288-LIVE(5483) (US ONLY) Billed as 1-ON-1 on your phone bill $25.00 per call Must be over 18 1-900-451-PUSSY(7877) (Canada) $2.99-$4.99 per min. (US $) CALL NOW!!! CALL NOW!!! CALL NOW!!! From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Dec 8 20:17:20 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:17:20 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199812090351.VAA18916@manifold.algebra.com> Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Well, if you're worried about worst-case scenarios (or variants on them) > it's as good as any and probably better than most. They've got everything > from gun tips to goat-raising. > > I enjoyed it, FWIW. It doesn't make a pretense of saying what-if like a > bunch of the other books does: this says social unrest is damn near certain. Alright, Declan, what is the title of the book, and better yet the ISBN? Thank you. igor > -Declan > > > At 03:13 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Declan McCullagh wrote: > >> > >> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with > >> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner > >> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You > >> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. > >> > >> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read. > > > >Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of > >his recommendations seem suspect. > > > > - Igor. > > > - Igor. From declan at well.com Tue Dec 8 20:29:06 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:29:06 +0800 Subject: Reinsch On Crypto/Wassenaar In-Reply-To: <199812090127.UAA10345@camel8.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199812090359.TAA06433@smtp.well.com> Note I have an article up at wired.com about Reinsch's speech yesterday on crypto at a defense/critical inf event. -Declan At 08:16 PM 12-8-98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Excerpt from a speech by BXA's William Reinsch on December 7, >1998, at the Practising Law Institute conference "Coping with U.S. >Export Controls." Note final paragraph about detailed crypto >session today -- no report on that yet. > >Full speech: http://jya.com/war120798-2.htm > >Also by him yesterday on crypto: http://jya.com/war120798.htm > >[Begin excerpt] > >Encryption continues to be a hotly debated issue. As I stated last >year, the U.S. continues to support a balanced approach to encryption >policy which considers privacy and commercial interests as well as >protecting law enforcement and national security interests. >Furthermore, we also remain committed to promoting the growth of >global electronic commerce through secure financial and business >communications. > >Our position has always been to seek industry-led, market-driven >solutions to achieve a balanced approach. What has changed is the >direction where technology and the market place are taking us. Key >recovery technology remains a very important part of our policy; >however, over the past two years, we have recognized that key recovery >is not a solution for all problems. > >That recognition, brought about in part as a result of our ongoing >dialogue with industry, has helped us also focus on recoverable >technologies that can enable law enforcement to continue its >authorized activities. > >As a result, on September 16, Vice President Gore unveiled a policy >update, which will not end the debate, but which does include steps to >further streamline exports of key recovery products and other >recoverable products which allow law enforcement, under proper legal >authority, recovery of plain text. > >The update also provides for 1) the export of 56 bit DES worldwide to >any end user under a license exception; 2) exports of strong >encryption to U.S. companies and their subsidiaries under a license >exception; 3) exports of strong encryption to the insurance and >medical sectors in 45 countries under a license exception; and 4) >exports of strong encryption to secure on-line transactions between >on-line merchants and their customers in 45 countries under a license >exception. This is consistent with our earlier announcement relating >to financial institutions. > >This is an evolutionary process and we intend to continue our >dialogue. We must continue to adapt to changes, and we will review >our policies again within the year to determine whether further >change is necessary. We intend to publish regulations implementing >the Vice President's announcement this month. > >With respect to developing a common international approach to >encryption policy, Ambassador David Aaron, our special envoy on >cryptography, is working with other countries to ensure that our >policies are compatible. He has found that most major producing >countries have public safety and national security concerns similar >to ours and are interested in developing a harmonized international >approach regarding compatible infrastructures for electronic commerce >and for a key management infrastructure. At last week's Wassenaar >Arrangement plenary session, the participating states approved a >number of changes to modernize and improve multilateral encryption >export controls. These changes removed controls on products below >56 bits and on certain consumer entertainment systems, such as DVD >products, and on cordless phone systems designed for home or office >use. > >Most important, participating states agreed to extend controls to >mass-market encryption exports above 64 bits, thus closing a >significant loophole. This will enable governments to review the >dissemination of the strongest encryption products that otherwise >might fall into the hands of rogue end users. > >For those of you deeply interested in the details of our encryption >policy, we have a specific session devoted to it tomorrow. > >[End excerpt] > From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Tue Dec 8 20:46:08 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:46:08 +0800 Subject: Survey Says Citizens Feel 'Threatened' By Government Message-ID: A survey has suggested that up to half a million American citizens may have been upset by something they have heard about the government. The USG poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 citizens between the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September and October this year were "uncomfortable" with some content heard about the government. In the US, 60 million citizens are estimated to know who Clinton actually is - roughly a third of all citizens between 18 and 60. Of those who have had negative experiences with the government, the largest proportion - 40% - has seen something "unconstitutional." 'Not surprised' One in seven said they had encountered unconstitutional actions that "freightened them", while 25% saw actions that they thought "would get them into jail." USG Associate Shill Rob Lawson described the numbers as a "significant minority". The citizen's charity DNC Welfare for Deadbeats suggested the survey strengthened calls for government regulation to protect the eyes of citizens. Libertarian spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some time." Government nannies "Big Brothers need to know their citizens are looking for pro-USG information in safety and security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all." DNC Welfare for Deadbeats, which steals from the citizens to give to those who are multiplying like rabbits with no means to provide for their offspring, and advises the government to spend more money and to legislate special privlidges for some citizens who are "disadvantaged," backs the introduction of "Big Brothers" - laws which filter out content unsuitable for citizens. The survey, called TLA.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the NOW, NAI and KRAP in syndicate. The Ministry of Truth and Propoganda's forthcoming review on Internet regulation is expected to be published before Christmas. [from news.propoganda.us] From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Tue Dec 8 21:49:12 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:49:12 +0800 Subject: Altavista hacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try "altaviagra." Probably confuses the colors green and blue on your browser, and turns your floppy disk into a hard drive. Since when did AOLers learn to use anonymous remailers? > On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > # It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked. > From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Tue Dec 8 21:49:43 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:49:43 +0800 Subject: spy cameras In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But could it recognise an impeachable offense? That would have saved us a lot of time, money, and confusion. I'm not even sure what *sex* is anymore. On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Alan Olsen wrote: > On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > > POLICE scientists are close to a major breakthrough that will allow CCTV > > cameras to "recognise" criminal activity. From tonne at thur.de Tue Dec 8 21:51:24 1998 From: tonne at thur.de (FitugMix) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:51:24 +0800 Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area Message-ID: <199812090531.GAA12050@jengate.thur.de> Sounds to me like a practice-run for Y2K. Max Inux wrote: > > Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back. One group of > 2-4 employees caused it they say. This was admitted 3 hours later, and > then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical. They expect to be > back on by this afternoon > > On the Shell Building at 8:30AM > > "Building closed, no power. Power will not be restored for 6-8 hours." > > I wonder how they knew. The estimate is probably about right too, wierd. > > The mission village sub-station has been re-oppened, and most peoples > power is now being revived. Funny how 2-4 people not following procedure > were able to shut down 4 substations. Looks like PG&E have lots of work > ahead to find out the cause/effect of this type action. > > Max > -- Max Inux New DH and RSA keys Generated. > Kinky Sex makes the world go round > If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto From ulf at fitug.de Tue Dec 8 21:56:44 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:56:44 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar Message-ID: Press release from the Ministry of Economy http://www.bmwi.de/presse/1998/1208prm2.html, my translation: Export control for encryption technology loosened No "key recovery" for cryptographic products At their plenary meeting on December 2nd and 3rd 1998 the 33 treaty states of the Wassenaar Arrangement have decided to revise the export control for encryption technologies (cryptographic products). Export control has been loosened, and the embodiment of crypto restrictions has been hindered. Thus there will be no export ban for encryption products in the future. The previously comprehensive control characterized by a large number of sectoral exceptions has been replaced by a positively formulated list text. In future all kinds of products - hardware and software are treated in the same way - are only subject to export control starting at a key length of 56 bits. Mass market products that fulfill certain requirements are subject to export control only up from a key length of 64 bits. For the present the restriction to 64 bits is valid for two years, it must then be renewed unanimously or it will be cancelled. In addition, methods such as digital signatures and authentication as well as certain product groups such as wireless phones and pay TV devices are completely exempted from export control. The regulation concerning freely available products (public domain) has remained unchanged. Certain states that had initially demanded special treatment for "key recovery" products have not have been unsuccessful. Thus the export of encryption technology will remain possible without depositing keys with government agencies. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From an AP news report, my translation [The Green Party is part of the new German government, but the Ministry of Economy is led by the Social Democrats]: Green Party member of parliament Hans-Christian Str�bele critisized that the government gave in to US pressure for stronger control on encryption. The agreement would affect the obvious need of computer users to protect their business and private communication from unauthorized access. Also the business opportunities of German producers of powerful encryption software would be reduced in a serious way. Thus when implementing the agreement in national law, negative effects must be limited as much as possible. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 8 22:26:30 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:26:30 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) Message-ID: <199812090546.XAA16714@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:04:18 +0100 (+0100) > From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) > authentication as well as certain product groups such as wireless > phones and pay TV devices are completely exempted from export > control. The regulation concerning freely available products (public > domain) has remained unchanged. Is there any mention of wireless networking devices? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jang at pobox.se Tue Dec 8 22:34:07 1998 From: jang at pobox.se (Jan Garefelt) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:34:07 +0800 Subject: News on Wassenaar anyone? Message-ID: <366D79E5.8C3D052A@pobox.se> Does anyone have information on the new Wassenaar arrangement, or information on when official information will be available? I'm only interested in the crypto parts, and I have already read the Aaron/Reuter story found on http://www.crypto.com/reuters/show.cgi?article=912708583 Thanks /Jan Garefelt From nobody at nowhere.to Tue Dec 8 22:55:34 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:55:34 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <4076a3c1cdc34d979bbb394d471b915e@anonymous> "Vladimir Z. Nuri" wrote: > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:18:29 -0500 > From: Dan S > Subject: [CTRL] Smart spy cameras on the way > To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > -Caveat Lector- > > >From : > http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=001036222020742&rtmo=VqqqD8sK&atmo=kkkkkkku&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html&pg=/et/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html > - - > Smart spy cameras on the way > > ... > "The quality is, it seems, in direct proportion to the amount of effort > that users are prepared to invest in such systems. Since its > introduction more than 20 years ago, the need for such technology has > increased, and intelligent sensory information processing and > information fusing is going to play a very key part in crime management. > The next step is to add other sensory devises such as microphones to > pick up the sound of breaking glass and sensors that can detect the > smell of particular substances and trigger an appropriate response." > ... [much deleted] I think we read a message not so long ago from a 'punk who spotted the prototype of these 'bomb-sniffing cameras' along a California highway, no? #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From daveb-lists at mail.hyperion.co.uk Wed Dec 9 00:11:27 1998 From: daveb-lists at mail.hyperion.co.uk (Dave Birch) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:11:27 +0800 Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol Message-ID: <1298933977-40691626@hyperion.co.uk> Wei Dai said >However if it did become mainstream I think there are some >interesting macroeconomic questions here. Will prices really be stable as >they're designed to be? Will there be business cycles? What is the optimum >inflation/deflation rate? Perhaps a solution is to fix not on a basket of commodities, or equities, but on provision of future service (much like Frequent Flier miles). Suppose the money is demoninated in Mb of web hosting (I've no idea whether this would be a good choice as I just made it up). Then you know you'll get what you want in terms of service, irrespective of the inflation/deflation. Sure, if web space inflates against the dollar then that's a problem (for people with dollars). But suppose you could accumulate the things that you actually want rather than specie (as a proxy)? Consider this as a thought experiment. Microsoft issue m$, each m$ being worth 1 minute of Microsoft technical support. People who need Microsoft technical support would buy m$ (big companies would know roughly how much they might need) whereas people who don't need or want it would sell m$. Instead of storing up dollars, the value of which might fluctuate (especially since Microsoft could change the price of technical support whenever they want), companies now have a firm fix. Just an idea. Regards, Dave Birch. === mailto:daveb at hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ === From nobody at remailer.ch Wed Dec 9 00:14:52 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:14:52 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber Message-ID: <19981209071620.20649.qmail@hades.rpini.com> I think Arnold Reinhold has the right idea, 100% - only post plain-English versions of algorithms. To paraphrase: "Banning plain-English instructions for building your own crypto software will require the starkest abridgement of the First Amendment." Force their hand. Make them spell it out in the harshest black and white. It is the only way to get the clueless sheeple to figure out what it really going on. Jim Choate is also right. Empower _everyone_ to write their own code, regardless of mathematical skill. Spell it out so simply that people with access to only BASIC can do it in their living room while watching TV. Yeah, so we appeal to "the lowest common denomiator." Face it, that's 95% of the population, and we have to get them on our side. Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:41:33 -0500 > > From: John Young > > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber > > > Yes, Gilmore's proposal was to mirror the contents; URLs threaten > > no reg-makers. > > > > Yep, mirrors of everything would be very large. We've heard already > > that folks would like help in knowing what to mirror if they can't do > > large archives, or can't easily decide which are most important. > > [text deleted] > > > What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging > > programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and- > > running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure, > > it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall, > > awaiting Wassenaar. > > Besides enraging, it should also include the necessary documents, > monographs, libraries, etc. to empower others to write the code within their > own legal boundaries. > > If somebody makes the effort to compile such a list I'd like to personaly > request they include this in addition to finished product. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me > in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, > it is: bullying > Howard Zinn > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 9 00:20:43 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:20:43 +0800 Subject: Chocolate Rations, Strange-Looking Seed Pods, and quid for "The Wassenaar Arrangement" In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208234027.008b5100@idiom.com> At 11:28 PM 12/7/98 -0800, David G. Koontz wrote: >John Gilmore wrote: >>> PS: I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that >> this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto >> publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers. >> A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron? >> What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is. > >A glorious anouncement! The chocolate ration has been raised to 20 >grams today, from 24 grams! > >(for those of you who thought it would never get here) "The Wassenaar Arrangement" really does sound like the title for a bad Robert Ludlum novel..... But the posting about the Blair Administration taking their anti-key-escrow positions off their official web sites does sound like the History Department's been at it again. I've been going through yet another round of airline security people imposing some new requirement and claiming it's "always been that way" or "been that way for a long time, ever since I started working here." The latest round is wearing hats through the X-Ray machine - they insist you take your hat off, even if you didn't beep, and that it's an "FAA requirement". San Jose started doing this about a year ago, but this is the first time San Francisco has done so, even though they claim otherwise (though I probably haven't worn a hat there since last rainy season.) Most people who wear hats at San Jose airport are Mexicans in cowboy hats, who probably don't care all that much; I'd expect that the first guard at LaGuardia or Kennedy who tries to insist that the Lubavitchers take their hats off in submission to the government will find themselves surrounded by annoyed bearded men talking about religious discrimination lawsuits.... Personally, I wear a hat because it keeps my head from getting cold, now that I no longer have as much OEM insulation on it as I used to, and while I don't have any religious rules requiring me to wear a hat, I _am_ a Quaker, and we have a history of getting uppity about governments insisting that everybody take their hats off in submission to government officials, or address them as "Your Highness", or other things that suggest one child of God is worth less than another. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 9 00:39:33 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:39:33 +0800 Subject: Web Hosting Providers in Many Countries? For crypto archives. Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208231218.008f15f0@idiom.com> John Gilmore has proposed setting up crypto archives in many countries to avoid Wassenaar restriction problems. Does anybody have a good source for information on web hosting providers or other ISPs in a variety of countries around the world? Shell accounts are nicer, because it's easier to create servers that check where the request is coming from, for countries that insist you only provide access to their citizens but still allow you to do that on a web site. The US doesn't appear to have strictly defined legal requirements for such sites (YET) and places like MIT have gotten quite flexible about it. Also, are there any good sources of relatively private VISA credit cards, preferably outside the US, that can be used to rent computer accounts with? There are other crypto distribution methods that, while slower, are still legal from the US - censoring printed books embarasses them a bit still, though some other countries don't have the same squeamishness even though they may be less interested in banning the material. Printing PGP source books was annoying, but a week's delay in shipping few-page crypto subroutines isn't that serious, especially if it's in a scanner-friendly format. Any guess how the various countries feel about faxes of source code? And, of course, shipping or even selling source for 40-bit RC4 and 512-bit RSA is pretty simple, even if you don't include the note "WARNING: DO NOT CHANGE THE #define KEYLENGTH TO 128 OR THE #define MODULUSLENGTH TO 2048 AND RECOMPILE" Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From nobody at em07.em.springer.de Wed Dec 9 16:40:02 1998 From: nobody at em07.em.springer.de (Nobody) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:40:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lecture Notes in Computer Science - free online Access Message-ID: <199812100039.BAA17888@medoc.springer.de> This Mail contains user ID and password! ------------------------------------------------------------ User ID: lncs password: uid387xf ------------------------------------------------------------ Please keep in mind that: - you agreed to keep these confidential - systematic download is not permitted! ------------------------------------------------------------ Your personal data as used in the registration form: Surname: cypherpunks Christian name: cypherpunks Institution/Company: cypherpunks Department: cypherpunks Streat/POBox: 101 cypherpunks drive City: cypherpunks Post Code: 00000 Country Code: BOLI Phone: FAX: LINK Number: ------------------------------------------------------------ from: link.springer.de/Lecture Notes in Computer Science From harmike at discruise.com Wed Dec 9 19:18:18 1998 From: harmike at discruise.com (harmike at discruise.com) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:18:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: ACT NOW!!! Web Site Submission Message-ID: *************************HOLIDAY SPECIAL *********************** Web Site Submission. Let the professionals Submit your Site. Special ends DECEMBER 31. If your page qualifies and you are willing to make {in most cases] minor changes to your page for submission then Type "SUBMIT" in the subject field. And leave your name, web address and or phone number and the best time to contact you. Submissions include the following. 1. If you QUALIFY, top 30 position, Goal is the top 10 2. Over 300 submission to advertising agencies 3. Submission to over 400 search engines 4 Submissions to top 100 Free for all links [FFA] 5. Reports on submission till your page is ranked This one time special is for people that have tried to submit there site and have not been able to get ranked. If you have a site and have not yet submitted it please try this first and Save yourself money. If you have tried before and just can't get your page listed then we can help you. We know what it takes to get to the top. ACT NOW!!!! For only 49.95.......Remember your page has to Qualify first so please forward your address znd or phone number so we can view your page. Thank You, Michael Hargrove Preferred Enterprises Advertise Agency/Search Engine Research Specialist From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 9 05:24:38 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:24:38 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built BerlinWalls Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text To: John Young Cc: cryptography at c2.net, John Gilmore Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:36:23 -0500 From: Dan Geer Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net Tradeoff time. ==== Q: Is it better for the providers of crypto resources to alarm/log accesses to their websites or not? I'd strongly argue not; Team Despot will disguise itself and we are surveilled as we speak; Team Legion loses if it creates targets for harvesting. ==== Q: Is coordinated integrity control (code signing) a Good Thing? I'd weakly argue not; The absence of a coordinated signing strategy does not preclude verification so avoiding common-mode fraud, e.g., long-running denial of service attacks on the central signing agent, seems advantageous. Alternative argument; Integrity of crypto code can be signed via quorumed split-key means so that no single actor fraud is effective yet only the minimum quorum need be online at any given time; this has the advantage that a completed split-key signature cannot be attributed to which quorum subset made it yet is verifiable by ordinary client means once complete. Since intermediate (partial signing) results do not leak fragment holder identity, quorum members can indirectly communicate through commonly held dead-drops. ==== Q: Should requestors routinely avoid surveilled identification? I'd argue strongly for: We, Team Legion, must commit to a cell organization with pseudonymity coverage such as through the "Crowds" system; to avoid any one of us being guilty we must all be. ==== Getting the problem statement right for this endeavor is the most important thing we have left to do. If the above sample is misguided, say so. To the extent it is incomplete, fix it. If one of us goes off the air, step into their place. It is time for us to walk the fine line between undue paranoia and a heightened state of awareness. --dan --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Wed Dec 9 05:25:45 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:25:45 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812082032.OAA13166@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <366E7428.D8A8BDB5@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Jim Choate wrote: > > I suspect that with their reversal concerning anonymous numbered accounts > and other similar changes in their laws and their enforcement that none of > the fully developed countries in N. America, W. Europe, Pacific Rim would > be good candidates for this sort of shenanigan without some legal backing > from the get go. That leaves S. America, Africa, E. Europe, Middle East, > India, and China. Not a lot of hope there. If it's not political issues, > it's no economies, no modern infrastructure, religious, etc. I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria. As long as a number of countries don't yet have export regulations, one can have a number of archive sites in each one of these countries, in so far as the financial problem is solved. We aren't choosing a single central archive that should be up for eternity. If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws, well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the remaining countries take over the downloading demands of the closed down sites. Isn't that simple? Much more important is to discuss how to solve the finacial problem of setting up such archives, to have people maintaining them, the technical problem of storage and the general policy of storage, I believe. M. K. Shen From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 9 05:34:46 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:34:46 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:04 AM -0500 on 12/9/98, Ulf M�ller wrote: > Press release from the Ministry of Economy > http://www.bmwi.de/presse/1998/1208prm2.html, my translation: > > Export control for encryption technology loosened War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery? :-). ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 9 05:47:07 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:47:07 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812091300.OAA10024@replay.com> I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives across the world is a great idea. However, I also think we need to focus on getting more and more people to use crypto. I would guess that the vast majority of computer users worldwide see no use for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and even those that do don't also use it. If everybody in the world is using encryption, it is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" governments to tell them they can't use it any more. Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, simply because the average citizen doesn't understand the concept of an "electronic envelope". From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 05:54:57 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:54:57 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) Message-ID: <199812091324.HAA18021@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:59:20 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria. Because those are the issues that will determine success. > As long as a number of countries don't yet have export regulations, Which doesn't mean they won't hassle the operators with various techniques in order to pursuade them it's a bad idea to continue. > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If They effect crypto by defintion. > at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws, If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or protection. > well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly throw away? > Much more important is to discuss how to solve the finacial problem There is NO financial problem. It costs hundreds of dollars to purchase the hardware. The connectivity is less than $100 a month in most parts of the world. It simply isn't expensive or economicaly challenging. That ISN'T the problem and should recieve scant attention while these other issues are extant. Bottem line, if you can't afford to put up a box then you're not going to be able to afford to deal with the other issues such activities incur mainly because you're going to be too busy trying to pay your housing and food costs. In that situation you've better things to do with your time then run an archive site. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From edsmith at IntNet.net Wed Dec 9 22:19:45 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:19:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: News on Wassenaar anyone? In-Reply-To: <882566D5.00704154.00@domino2.certicom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981210005732.006e5af8@mailhost.IntNet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Good idea! Simply put a copyright notice in the unencrypted sig of all encrypted email. Edwin At 12:28 PM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >If cryptography protecting intellectual property is exempt from regulation, >my words are now my intellectual property -- all of them. > >Ted > > > > > >Jan Garefelt on 12/08/98 11:11:33 AM > >To: cypherpunks at toad.com >cc: (bcc: Ted Rallis/Certicom) >Subject: News on Wassenaar anyone? > > > > >Does anyone have information on the new Wassenaar arrangement, or >information on when official information will be available? > >I'm only interested in the crypto parts, and I have already read the >Aaron/Reuter story found on >http://www.crypto.com/reuters/show.cgi?article=912708583 > >Thanks > >/Jan Garefelt > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNm9izEmNf6b56PAtEQLWOACdE1OSS7uKtTJqKHBSspIHXWliyngAmwb4 M/9u9ETy9CfxSPBm778FBUFl =MVko -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free! If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz. Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at: http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX? http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm When you blame others, you give up your power to change. Dr. Robert Anthony Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere. Lazarus Long From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 06:44:49 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:44:49 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin (fwd) Message-ID: <199812091354.HAA18154@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:33:32 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin > Walls > ==== > > Q: Is it better for the providers of crypto resources to alarm/log > accesses to their websites or not? > > I'd strongly argue not; > Team Despot will disguise itself and we are surveilled as we speak; > Team Legion loses if it creates targets for harvesting. > > ==== >From a security standpoint it is advised to log access and all resource use for about 4-5 days so you can get a sample big enough to look for under_the_radar_hacking. On the flip side you don't want to keep them longer than that because they could be used in an incriminating manner, whether an actual criminal act occured or not. I use the default buffer time (4 days) for my mail package as my ttl value. Once that time is past the files are bye bye. If the security of the site is compromised then it's pretty worthless as an archive. > Q: Is coordinated integrity control (code signing) a Good Thing? > > I'd weakly argue not; > Alternative argument; > ==== The code shouldn't be signed by any of the archive sites, they shouldn't put their butts on the line. The code should be signed by the originators of same. This verifies that ALL the archive sites have the same package and not individualy modified ones. The archive sites should provide some sort of hash to verify successful transfers. > Q: Should requestors routinely avoid surveilled identification? > ==== There isn't any way around this one. If the site is up and it's advertised and publicly accessible then expect to be identified. Either the owner of the domain/network resources you're using or your registration to the relevant domain name authorities will provide ample pointers. Of course there is the strategy of registering the domain for a year only and then each year register a new one. Then you could provide bogus address and owner information. This of course won't slow a packet sniffer down for long. Onion and CROWDS won't help here unless you're connected directly to the anonymizer. If you're that close they'll find you by following the wires. > it. If one of us goes off the air, step into > their place. You so glibly throw people away...it's better to fix a system such that there is a legal ramification (ie resistance) for the LEA's applying the pressure; a fight in court. Beside shutting the sites down another primary goal of LEA's is to keep the conflict off the evening news. There is ample evidence of LEA's dropping charges because the group made it known they were going to use their day in court as a platform for espousing their agenda. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Wed Dec 9 07:56:58 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:56:58 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199812091457.GAA06871@smtp.well.com> Boston on Surviving Y2K By Boston T. Party Common Law Copyright 1998 by Javelin Press ISBN 1-888766-05-0 $22 softcover, $12.30 in bulk I have seen a web site for this book, though don't have it bookmarked. Try javelinpress.com. -Declan At 09:51 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Declan McCullagh wrote: >> >> Well, if you're worried about worst-case scenarios (or variants on them) >> it's as good as any and probably better than most. They've got everything >> from gun tips to goat-raising. >> >> I enjoyed it, FWIW. It doesn't make a pretense of saying what-if like a >> bunch of the other books does: this says social unrest is damn near certain. > >Alright, Declan, what is the title of the book, and better yet the >ISBN? Thank you. > >igor > >> -Declan >> >> >> At 03:13 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >> >Declan McCullagh wrote: >> >> >> >> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >> >> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with >> >> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner >> >> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You >> >> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed. >> >> >> >> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read. >> > >> >Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of >> >his recommendations seem suspect. >> > >> > - Igor. >> > >> > > > > - Igor. > From Mbishop645 at aol.com Thu Dec 10 00:31:35 1998 From: Mbishop645 at aol.com (Mbishop645 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:31:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Message-ID: >HaB wrote: > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the >> electronic equivalent of one?" >> >> balance. > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? >One word: postcard. Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? --- Paul Weinstein --- Windows 98(n) - 32-bit extensions and graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. --- Visit LCARS: A Macintosh Reference at http://www.weinstein.org/lcars From jya at pipeline.com Wed Dec 9 08:37:51 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:37:51 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar/Crypto News Message-ID: <199812091532.KAA16119@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> A BXA spokesperson said today that the text of the recent Wassenaar agreement had been received yesterday and it is now being prepared for release on the BXA website (www.bxa.doc.gov) maybe by the end of the week but maybe not until next week. She said she expected the US to be the first to publish the doc, after I cited the WA message below from Caspar Bowden. She also said that the Practising Law Institute (www.pli.edu) session on encryption controls yesterday was taped and inquiries should be made to PLI (a continuing legal ed org; ) 1-(800) 260-4PLI. And that Bill Reinsch did not participate in the session, only gave the speech on Dec 7 noted here yesterday: http://jya.com/war120798-2.htm An inquiry to PLI (Betty Gray) has not been returned. >From UK Crypto: From: "Caspar Bowden" To: "Ukcrypto (E-mail)" Subject: More from Wassenaar Secretariat Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:19:09 -0000 Message-ID: <000401be2355$07529ec0$dc77e4d4 at cpsb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal -----Original Message----- From: Wassenaar Secretariat [mailto:secretariat at wassenaar.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 16:54 To: Caspar Bowden Subject: Re: Attn: Dirk Weicke Mr. Weicke is still away, however, I can assure you that the Secretariat has been recently authorized by all member states to publish the new Lists on the web site. This will be done as soon as possible. Please be patient, we are a very small Secretariat. Glenn Sibbitt Special Advisor WA Secretariat Caspar Bowden wrote: > Dear Mr.Weicke, > > We spoke by telephone on Fri afternoon. > > You mentioned that the text and details of the new agreement would be > published on the Wassenaar website this week. > > I understand that you have been away sick for a few days (my > commiserations), but there have been reports from your colleagues > that there will in fact be no publication on your Website. > > I'd be most grateful if you could just confirm when publication of > details will take place, in particular the "Cryptography Note" detailing > key-length limits, and definitions of categories. > > Kind regards > -- > Caspar Bowden http://www.fipr.org > Director, Foundation for Information Policy Research > Tel: +44(0)171 354 2333 Fax: +44(0)171 827 6534 From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Wed Dec 9 09:13:52 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:13:52 +0800 Subject: Message-ID: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> They say education is power abd naybe they were correct. I agree with the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know it exists. Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother. While the only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the time to teach them how to use the tools. I work for an IT department and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you come from?!" Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like. Our greatest problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they? Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide, then why use it. An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that? That excuse bothers me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong. God help us. . . ---Anonymous wrote: > > I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives > across the world is a great idea. However, I also > think we need to focus on getting more and more > people to use crypto. I would guess that the vast > majority of computer users worldwide see no use > for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and > even those that do don't also use it. > > If everybody in the world is using encryption, it > is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" > governments to tell them they can't use it any more. > > Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame > crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, > simply because the average citizen doesn't understand > the concept of an "electronic envelope". > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Wed Dec 9 09:40:24 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:40:24 +0800 Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812091324.HAA18021@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <366EA96D.B6E92992@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Jim Choate wrote: > > > > I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria. > > Because those are the issues that will determine success. Let there be a large number of sites. If part of these fail, there are others that are successful. (Compare evolution.) > > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the > > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If > > They effect crypto by defintion. How, for example, can they affects the functioning of an archive, if you get the right people and machine? > > > at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws, > > If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other > sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This > makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or > protection. It is not true that there are more gangsters in the small than in the powerful nations. What do you mean by stability (which has plenty of meanings)? > > > well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the > > And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly > throw away? I suppose that running an archive is a voluntary (self-sacrificing) act of a benovolent person ready to offer his service to the public. If his site has to close down sometime later, he has to accept his bad luck. Why should you care so much minutely for him? (And you say below that the money problem is trivial!) > There is NO financial problem. It costs hundreds of dollars to purchase the > hardware. The connectivity is less than $100 a month in most parts of the > world. It simply isn't expensive or economicaly challenging. So it rests to find people who have the time and (that small) money and energy to run sites and some countries that aren't going to have strict cryto laws in the near future. THAT, however, is difficult, I believe. M. K. Shen From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Wed Dec 9 10:05:25 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:05:25 +0800 Subject: Web Hosting Providers in Many Countries? For crypto archives. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981208231218.008f15f0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <366EAC74.1953D4EB@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Bill Stewart wrote: > > And, of course, shipping or even selling source for 40-bit RC4 > and 512-bit RSA is pretty simple, even if you don't include the note > "WARNING: DO NOT CHANGE THE #define KEYLENGTH TO 128 OR THE > #define MODULUSLENGTH TO 2048 AND RECOMPILE" Software that are parametrizable would thus all be able to escape the export regulations that way, I believe. But they would pose strict laws on the use, i.e. actual key size employed by the user, as is the case in France, if I don't err. That will be the real problem, I am afraid. M. K. Shen From hua at teralogic-inc.com Wed Dec 9 10:28:59 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:28:59 +0800 Subject: What happened to this NY Times article on STOA and Echelon? Message-ID: <006401be239b$9d75d200$4164a8c0@mve21> Does anyone have any idea what happened to this article on STOA and Echelon? http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/nytimes.htm I cannot seem to find it in the NY Times archives. Is it really from 1998? Could it be from 1997? Anyone been in contact with the author? Ern From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 10:31:35 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:31:35 +0800 Subject: The politics of crypto archives Message-ID: <199812091742.LAA18947@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:46:37 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > Let there be a large number of sites. If part of these fail, there > are others that are successful. (Compare evolution.) But two sites don't reproduce to make a 3rd site, some set of sites don't deny environmental resources to others, etc. etc. Your analogy is flawed on many levels. If the sites go down that often what motive would somebody else have if they know they'll face the same sorts of problems and won't have any additional resources to help them face it? Why would you put up a site if you knew that the 14 others before had failed and that nobody would help with your legal fees when you did go down? It's one thing to put your neck on the block for yourself, it's a whole other issue when you start asking other people to do it for your benefit (they obviously don't need an archive since they have the resources already) when you make it clear that you won't reimburse or otherwise recognize their efforts for YOU. > > > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the > > > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If > > > > They effect crypto by defintion. > > How, for example, can they affects the functioning of an archive, if > you get the right people and machine? Because those machines have to be available and paid for, their utilities need to exist and need to be reliable, the police need to have some sort of legal boundary to cross, and you need some recognized and guaranteed legal recourse for your own self defence. Those are just a couple of the issues involved in running a archive site. Things don't exist in vacuum. You naively take WAY(!!!) too much for granted. I'll tell you what. Just as an experiment put up a CDR node for 6 months and see what it's like. Keep the box up 24 hours a day, pay the electricity, phone lines, domain name, etc. We're talking less than $500 total if you already own a box. Such an experiment is within the reach of just about any person who has sufficient resources (even students) to surf the web. If you don't have the infrastructure to send the email in the clear then crypto won't effect that one whit. And putting up an archive that nobody can get to is not worth the effort either. > > If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other > > sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This > > makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or > > protection. > > It is not true that there are more gangsters in the small than in > the powerful nations. What do you mean by stability (which has plenty > of meanings)? Well of course not, the populations aren't comparable. However, it is clear that smaller 3rd world countries have much more stringent regulations or because the instability causes there to be no standards to regulation and lack many of the protections we in the US take for granted. It makes the continued existance of the archive problematic. Putting up an archive on Monday only to have it go down on Tuesday is pyrrhic at best. I use stability in the commen political meaning. The country has a political and social system that is long-lived, has a well defined mechanism for transfer of power (if they even recognize transfer of power), etc. If you're in a situation where some rebels or other forces start lobbing mortar shells into your immediate area then crypto is the least of your worries. Or as in Columbia where a group drove into town, drug people out into the street and shot them in the head. Consider S. Korea. Even though it's a democracy it's illegal to operate a firewall. The closest place S. Koreans can get in many cases to a firewall and network security (for groups outside of S. Korea) is Australia. Now how do you expect to seriously run a crypto site when the military and police have a legal authority to come rummage in your system at will? And can put you in detention if you deny them that access? Those sorts of places are where crypto is needed but clearly can't do the job for themselves. > > And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly > > throw away? > > I suppose that running an archive is a voluntary (self-sacrificing) > act of a benovolent person ready to offer his service to the public. > If his site has to close down sometime later, he has to accept his > bad luck. Why should you care so much minutely for him? (And you > say below that the money problem is trivial!) No, it isn't self-sacrifice. It's sacrifice for the users of that archive. Their motives are not self-centered, they're society centered. As users of those archives you OWE them. I would suggest strongly(!) that you spend more time studying ethics and morality. > So it rests to find people who have the time and (that small) money > and energy to run sites and some countries that aren't going to > have strict cryto laws in the near future. THAT, however, is > difficult, I believe. Duh. I wonder why....(well, actualy I don't) ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Dec 9 10:37:48 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:37:48 +0800 Subject: No Subject ( camera nonsense ) Message-ID: <366EB658.3E32@lsil.com> > I think we read a message not so long ago from a 'punk who > spotted the prototype of these 'bomb-sniffing cameras' along > a California highway, no? > Don't remember the date but when asked to pinpoint the thing so someone else could actually go take a look there was no response from the original poster. I wrote it off as babbling. There is one device above the westbound section of 580 on the Livermore side of the Altamont pass. About the size of a small SpectraPhysics Laser, the surface appears solid - i.e. no visual sensor. My best guess - radar for either speed measurement or traffic density measurement. Chemical sniffer - NOT. Radiation detector - perhaps, but I doubt it. Best bet - traffic analysis. These counties here are always fighting about population growth and the traffic implications. As if one stinking town owns the entire godamned federal interstate. Little, carpetbagging Napoleans everywhere you look. As for neural systems detecting illegal activity - yeah? what? Two people talking? Looking disreputable? Having their hands *appear* to coincide for a second? This "technology", if detected in a public place, should be zapped and the promoters tarred and feathered*. *Superglue or RTV and polyfill may legally be substituted for the traditional materials. m From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 10:56:37 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:56:37 +0800 Subject: (fwd) Message-ID: <199812091747.LAA19022@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:21 -0800 (PST) > From: "Joel O'Connor" > Subject: Re: > They say education is power abd naybe they were correct. I agree with > the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you > stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know > it exists. Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother. While the > only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the > question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million > people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the > time to teach them how to use the tools. I work for an IT department I'd say the obvious answer is to buy a spammers mailing list and then use it to send out a one-time-only missive on the issues with a directive of where to go for more information. Mass email letters to newspapers all over the US (or whereever you are). Hit usenet with copies. Buy add space in newspapers and magazines. Hit up the local media for PSA's. Use the local public access television stations. etc. It's not the how that people are having a hard time with, it's the why. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 10:56:38 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:56:38 +0800 Subject: Intelligent cameras, a reference Message-ID: <199812091817.MAA19280@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Scientific American Apr. 1996 Smart Rooms Alex P. Pentland pp. 68 - 76 ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Wed Dec 9 11:16:43 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:16:43 +0800 Subject: LEA Interviews Message-ID: <199812091821.NAA09307@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> This is attorney protected information. We've been having discussion with a legal person about being interviewed by law enforcement officials and/or signing a statement. These comments are offered by permission (and might be coupled with DCF's advice of saying only "I Want a Lawyer"): [Begin comments] > What do you mean, that they would use the information to > "impeach" a possible witness? Do you mean that he would not > be called to testify against a defendant? Sorry to be opaque - "impeachment" means, basically, making a witness lose credibility with the jury. The only use I've been able to imagine for wanting a written statement is to make you look bad, in the event that you are called by either side to testify, and end up testifying favorably to the defendant. If you appear to be a "hostile witness", it's even possible that you can be impeached by the attorney/party who asked you to testify. The scenario I see looks something like this - 1. You're called as a defense witness to testify to the effect that you've been on the list for years, messages like the defendants's weren't unique or especially unusual, that you understood them as satire or political commentary and not as actual threats, given the wider context in which they occurred. The general impression conveyed by your testimony is that you're a rational, reasonable, respectable person who the jury can like and trust, that you think the defendant is perhaps weird but basically misunderstood and harmless. 2. The prosecution cross-examines you about your conclusions re the defendant - they're going to ask you how well you really knew/know him, how much you knew about his other behavior (they're likely to try to sneak in information about the defendant's other alleged misbehavior here, if they haven't already), and so forth. To the extent that you say you didn't know him, your direct testimony becomes less and less relevant - and if you start to say that you did know him well, they're likely to produce the document you wrote/signed, and ask you a series of uncomfortable questions about it, designed to create the impression you were lying to the jury earlier during your testimony, e.g., if the statement says "I didn't know that the defendant had done these other creepy things, and they make me question whether or not I know him very well, and I feel differently about his threats now that I know about those creepy things", the prosecutor will make a big production out of pointing out the differences between your testimony at trial and what you wrote during the LEA interrogation. Understandably, you probably wanted to distance yourself from the defendant when the LE agents were in your home, especially after they'd given you a list of creepy things he supposedly did - but they're going to hold you to the same degree of distance from him and his thoughts/actions if you end up testifying at trial. Writing it down and having you sign it serves several purposes - it gives the prosecutor a document s/he can wave around, ask you to read from, and otherwise organize a little production around - it also lets you be impeached with your own words, instead of calling the cops to the stand to dispute your recollection of your conversation, which takes on a "he said/she said" tone, and might make it look like the big mean cops were picking on poor little you. If they can make poor little you eat his own words, they look good, and you look bad. So .. that's what I'm afraid the document is for. I've been trying to think of something else - but especially where the agents asked you to pick out just key bits of your conversation, and assert that they're true, and let the rest of the information be lost to memory and time .. it makes me think the information they selected was important to them. The information they got seems helpful to them only in the context that you end up testifying at trial - I can't think of any other reason it would be useful to them. It sounds like the psychological factors of the questioning were pretty well optimized to make you want (probably partly subconsciously) to distance yourself from the defendant, both to avoid implied guilt by association, and to maintain a common ground of reasonableness with the cops while discussing other things like politics. The current issue of the Utne Reader has a piece by the Unabomber's brother and his wife talking about how the FBI manipulated them into providing evidence against the Unabomber by appearing sympathetic and reasonable, forming a common "us (good people) versus the actions of they crazy guy, who needs us to work together to help him get better" bond which was ultimately used to try to kill the crazy guy, to the horror of the brother/wife. While I do think that they may have pulled a fast one on you, I don't think that reflects badly on you as a person .. it's pretty difficult to tell which cops are actually reasonable people, and which are pretending to be reasonable people in order to further their own agendas. [End comments] From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Dec 9 11:47:51 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:47:51 +0800 Subject: No Subject ( camera nonsense ) In-Reply-To: <366EB658.3E32@lsil.com> Message-ID: Traffic analysis is performed using wire loops in the the road. The sensors mountend on overpasses near truck scales fulfill a different (so far unknown) purpose. --Lucky On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote: > > > I think we read a message not so long ago from a 'punk who > > spotted the prototype of these 'bomb-sniffing cameras' along > > a California highway, no? > > > Don't remember the date but when asked to pinpoint the thing so someone > else could actually go take a look there was no response from the > original poster. I wrote it off as babbling. > > There is one device above the westbound section of 580 on the Livermore > side of the Altamont pass. About the size of a small SpectraPhysics > Laser, the surface appears solid - i.e. no visual sensor. My best guess > - radar for either speed measurement or traffic density measurement. > Chemical sniffer - NOT. > Radiation detector - perhaps, but I doubt it. > > Best bet - traffic analysis. These counties here are always fighting > about population growth and the traffic implications. As if one stinking > town owns the entire godamned federal interstate. Little, carpetbagging > Napoleans everywhere you look. > > As for neural systems detecting illegal activity - yeah? what? Two > people talking? Looking disreputable? Having their hands *appear* to > coincide for a second? This "technology", if detected in a public place, > should be zapped and the promoters tarred and feathered*. > > *Superglue or RTV and polyfill may legally be substituted for the > traditional materials. > > m > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From jwilso37 at visteonet.com Wed Dec 9 11:52:26 1998 From: jwilso37 at visteonet.com (Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:52:26 +0800 Subject: Encryption for the Masses Message-ID: <199812091830.NAA29833@mailfw2.ford.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We live in a society where freedom is largely an illusion and where Big Brother doesn't fear protest by the general population. In most cases, simply creating a crisis is enough for individuals to not only give their liberties up but to actually plead for their liberties to be taken away in the name of safety and security. What they don't realize is that the sheep are begging the wolves to protect them. It's not the militia guy next door that I'm worried about -- he pretty much tells us what he's up to. What I'm afraid of is the NSA reading my email and listening to my phone calls without my knowledge. So how do we get the masses to realize that we aren't talking about a potential threat, but are actually already living in a Big Brother society with very few secrets. We can continue to bury our heads in the illusion that we really are free, but we have to ask ourselves whether we are more free today than we were ten years, five years or even a year ago. If the answer is no, then there is a serious problem. So excusing my rant, my point is that when the average individual wakes up and realizes that his or her life really is an open book and that every piece of email sent has been filtered through a computer somewhere, that every posting to a newsgroup has been archived and just may pop up and haunt them in the future, when they realize that the only privacy available to them is the privacy that they claim and defend then, and only then, will we see a change in crypto policies around the world. When the citizenry begins demanding accountability by elected officials for the privacy that they've sold, for the chains they've placed on their constituents and for the oaths they have broken then we'll see the tide change for the better. Until then, the rest of us will have to wage the fight to protect the ignorant. ____________________________________________________ J. Richard Wilson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQA/AwUBNm7BSsDUWXiy5rQXEQJRUQCdEUMFE6kfNz2/hzJmOmiKoAyEKEYAoNtd vAJ/Hc/RTsdDs+F7eLnroqCT =Gxd/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----Original Message----- From: Joel O'Connor [mailto:ogrenivek at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, 09 December, 1998 10:26 To: Anonymous Cc: Cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: Re: They say education is power abd naybe they were correct. I agree with the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know it exists. Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother. While the only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the time to teach them how to use the tools. I work for an IT department and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you come from?!" Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like. Our greatest problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they? Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide, then why use it. An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that? That excuse bothers me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong. God help us. . . ---Anonymous wrote: > > I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives > across the world is a great idea. However, I also > think we need to focus on getting more and more > people to use crypto. I would guess that the vast > majority of computer users worldwide see no use > for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and > even those that do don't also use it. > > If everybody in the world is using encryption, it > is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" > governments to tell them they can't use it any more. > > Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame > crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, > simply because the average citizen doesn't understand > the concept of an "electronic envelope". > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ulf at fitug.de Wed Dec 9 11:55:13 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:55:13 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> Press release from the Ministry of Economy >> >> Export control for encryption technology loosened > >War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery? My first reaction was something along that line. However there are a two important points to note: 1.) Officials point out that "export control" does not mean "export restriction". There are forms of "export control" (such as the requirement to notify the Export Office of your exports) that do not hinder the export of crypto software in any significant way. So it remains to be seen how Germany and other countries will implement the new rules. 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its further dissemination". From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 12:06:33 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:06:33 +0800 Subject: The politics of crypto archives (fwd) Message-ID: <199812091926.NAA19818@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 20:03:05 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: The politics of crypto archives > We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new) > crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware. > And also you said that money is no problem! You need to go back and re-read what prompted this. Your responce is completely out of context. > Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They > certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial > or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company > and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you > the one who is cleverer than all the others? It depends, do I shop there? I'm done with this discussion. You want to expect people to put their neck on the line and you use their services while owning them nothing then wonder why nobody does it, so be it. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 9 12:08:48 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:08:48 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) Message-ID: <199812091927.NAA19892@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 98 20:04 +0100 > From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) > Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar > 1.) Officials point out that "export control" does not mean "export > restriction". Spin-doctor bullshit. There are forms of "export control" (such as the > requirement to notify the Export Office of your exports) that do not > hinder the export of crypto software in any significant way. So it > remains to be seen how Germany and other countries will implement > the new rules. And why should one need to notify them if there is not at least the implied ability on their part to say "NO, you won't either."? > 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software > remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such > as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its > further dissemination". PGP is NOT unrestrited. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hab at gamegirlz.com Wed Dec 9 12:09:05 1998 From: hab at gamegirlz.com (HaB) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:09:05 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <366EC935.967DCF6D@gamegirlz.com> Joel O'Connor wrote: > They say education is power abd naybe they were correct. I agree with > the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you > stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know > it exists. Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother. While the > only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the > question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million > people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the > time to teach them how to use the tools. I work for an IT department > and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you > come from?!" Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest > part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like. Our greatest > problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies > in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they? > Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide, > then why use it. An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn > attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that? That excuse bothers > me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take > the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong. God help us. . . > > ---Anonymous wrote: > > > > I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives > > across the world is a great idea. However, I also > > think we need to focus on getting more and more > > people to use crypto. I would guess that the vast > > majority of computer users worldwide see no use > > for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and > > even those that do don't also use it. > > > > If everybody in the world is using encryption, it > > is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" > > governments to tell them they can't use it any more. > > > > Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame > > crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, > > simply because the average citizen doesn't understand > > the concept of an "electronic envelope". > > > > > > > I think the concept presented at the end of that last paragraph is one of the best ones I have heard. If put to the average user on those terms, I would think it would be relatively easy to convince them of the value of crypto. No non-technical type would even think of sending snail mail without an envelope, out in the open for everyone to read. So the concept of an "electronic envelope" for email is a very easily grasped one. However, I have noticed that the rules that often apply to snail mail, including basic grammar, punctiation, capitalization, etc., often do not apply to email for some odd reason. I think some more of the problem lies in the fact that the tools aren't all that user-friendly for the non-power user. A lot of people are intimidated by the very concept of email itself. I can only imagine what they must think when someone begins to go on and on about public keys, and private key, and codes, and encrypting, and decrypting. People fear technology. They are the same people who will never enter a credit card number on a secure web site, yet have no qualms about telling it to someone over a public telephone, or cel phone. That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the electronic equivalent of one?" balance. -HaB From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Wed Dec 9 12:13:58 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:13:58 +0800 Subject: The politics of crypto archives In-Reply-To: <199812091742.LAA18947@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <366EC969.DA01FF3F@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Jim Choate wrote: > > > Let there be a large number of sites. If part of these fail, there > > are others that are successful. (Compare evolution.) > > But two sites don't reproduce to make a 3rd site, some set of sites don't > deny environmental resources to others, etc. etc. Your analogy is flawed on > many levels. It simply means survival of the fittest. > > If the sites go down that often what motive would somebody else have if they > know they'll face the same sorts of problems and won't have any additional > resources to help them face it? > > Why would you put up a site if you knew that the 14 others before had failed > and that nobody would help with your legal fees when you did go down? > > It's one thing to put your neck on the block for yourself, it's a whole > other issue when you start asking other people to do it for your benefit > (they obviously don't need an archive since they have the resources already) > when you make it clear that you won't reimburse or otherwise recognize their > efforts for YOU. We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new) crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware. And also you said that money is no problem! Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you the one who is cleverer than all the others? > > > > > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the > > > > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If > > > > > > They effect crypto by defintion. > > > > How, for example, can they affects the functioning of an archive, if > > you get the right people and machine? > > Because those machines have to be available and paid for, their utilities need > to exist and need to be reliable, the police need to have some sort of legal > boundary to cross, and you need some recognized and guaranteed legal recourse > for your own self defence. > > Those are just a couple of the issues involved in running a archive site. > > Things don't exist in vacuum. You naively take WAY(!!!) too much for > granted. > > I'll tell you what. Just as an experiment put up a CDR node for 6 months > and see what it's like. Keep the box up 24 hours a day, pay the electricity, > phone lines, domain name, etc. We're talking less than $500 total if you > already own a box. Such an experiment is within the reach of just about > any person who has sufficient resources (even students) to surf the web. > > If you don't have the infrastructure to send the email in the clear then > crypto won't effect that one whit. And putting up an archive that nobody > can get to is not worth the effort either. Then why did you tell me previously that the finacial problem is nothing?? Any cite connected to the internet is certainly available everywhere as long as the machine is up. > > > > If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other > > > sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This > > > makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or > > > protection. > > > > It is not true that there are more gangsters in the small than in > > the powerful nations. What do you mean by stability (which has plenty > > of meanings)? > > Well of course not, the populations aren't comparable. However, it is clear > that smaller 3rd world countries have much more stringent regulations or > because the instability causes there to be no standards to regulation and > lack many of the protections we in the US take for granted. It makes the > continued existance of the archive problematic. Putting up an archive on > Monday only to have it go down on Tuesday is pyrrhic at best. > > I use stability in the commen political meaning. The country has a > political and social system that is long-lived, has a well defined mechanism > for transfer of power (if they even recognize transfer of power), etc. > > If you're in a situation where some rebels or other forces start lobbing > mortar shells into your immediate area then crypto is the least of your > worries. Or as in Columbia where a group drove into town, drug people out > into the street and shot them in the head. > > Consider S. Korea. Even though it's a democracy it's illegal to operate a > firewall. The closest place S. Koreans can get in many cases to a firewall > and network security (for groups outside of S. Korea) is Australia. Now how > do you expect to seriously run a crypto site when the military and police > have a legal authority to come rummage in your system at will? And can put > you in detention if you deny them that access? > > Those sorts of places are where crypto is needed but clearly can't do the > job for themselves. Remember the assumption is that a site is in a country which has yet have no crypto laws. It then runs till that country poses crypto laws. So you can exclude your example. If a country turns out to be unstable than the effect is that we have one site less from that time point. If there are plenty of sites, what problem do you see?? > > > > And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly > > > throw away? > > > > I suppose that running an archive is a voluntary (self-sacrificing) > > act of a benovolent person ready to offer his service to the public. > > If his site has to close down sometime later, he has to accept his > > bad luck. Why should you care so much minutely for him? (And you > > say below that the money problem is trivial!) > > No, it isn't self-sacrifice. It's sacrifice for the users of that archive. > Their motives are not self-centered, they're society centered. As users of > those archives you OWE them. > > I would suggest strongly(!) that you spend more time studying ethics and > morality. If you want to discuss ethics and morality then you should better switch to other groups where there are more people who like to hear you. M. K. Shen From tony at secapl.com Thu Dec 10 04:24:33 1998 From: tony at secapl.com (tony at secapl.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:24:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: In-Reply-To: <366F0A1A.654798B3@usachoice.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Robert Wenzler wrote: > > > That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > > someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > > electronic equivalent of one?" > > > > balance. > > Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? > One word: postcard. But would you do all your correspondence on postcards? Pay bills, etc? I think there is a place for postcards, but most mail is in envelopes. From trallis at certicom.com Wed Dec 9 13:52:09 1998 From: trallis at certicom.com (Ted Rallis) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 05:52:09 +0800 Subject: News on Wassenaar anyone? Message-ID: <882566D5.00704154.00@domino2.certicom.com> If cryptography protecting intellectual property is exempt from regulation, my words are now my intellectual property -- all of them. Ted Jan Garefelt on 12/08/98 11:11:33 AM To: cypherpunks at toad.com cc: (bcc: Ted Rallis/Certicom) Subject: News on Wassenaar anyone? Does anyone have information on the new Wassenaar arrangement, or information on when official information will be available? I'm only interested in the crypto parts, and I have already read the Aaron/Reuter story found on http://www.crypto.com/reuters/show.cgi?article=912708583 Thanks /Jan Garefelt From jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu Thu Dec 10 06:06:14 1998 From: jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu (Ken Williams) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:06:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi, "Strike to protest Wassenaar!" URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has limited its own." Regards, Ken Williams Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2 dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw== =DaVN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From declan at well.com Wed Dec 9 14:06:16 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:06:16 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199812092108.NAA22653@smtp.well.com> I have been told in email that the correct URL is http://www.hotwire.com/ (not the same as the wired digital site) From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Dec 9 15:13:04 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:13:04 +0800 Subject: No Subject ( camera nonsense ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com> Lucky Green wrote: > > Traffic analysis is performed using wire loops in the the road. The > sensors mountend on overpasses near truck scales fulfill a different (so > far unknown) purpose. > > --Lucky > The wire loops I know about use 60Hz AC and measure inductance. I believe that this would make them unsuitable as speed measurement devices since measurement would extend over a number of cycles. They might work if they were widely separated but you would have to be sure there was only one vehicle generating the peaks. I'd stick with the speed detector radar for now to explain the overhead doo-dads. m From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Dec 9 15:55:46 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:55:46 +0800 Subject: No Subject ( camera nonsense ) In-Reply-To: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com> Message-ID: The wire loops (in sets of two a few meters apart) are in every stretch of freeway in California. They report the numbers and speed of all vehicles. Have so for decades. This allows the Caltrans operation centers to instantly identify backups due to accidents, etc. Once in a while, the evening news do a story on these operation centers. So we still don't know what the grey sensors do. Note that these sensors are typically mounted only above the two right lanes. --Lucky On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote: > Lucky Green wrote: > > > > Traffic analysis is performed using wire loops in the the road. The > > sensors mountend on overpasses near truck scales fulfill a different (so > > far unknown) purpose. > > > > --Lucky > > > The wire loops I know about use 60Hz AC and measure inductance. I > believe that this would make them unsuitable as speed measurement > devices since measurement would extend over a number of cycles. They > might work if they were widely separated but you would have to be sure > there was only one vehicle generating the peaks. > > I'd stick with the speed detector radar for now to explain the overhead > doo-dads. > > m > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From hfen at newmail.net Thu Dec 10 07:57:47 1998 From: hfen at newmail.net (Pete) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:57:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Between our.. Message-ID: <199812101547.PAA21090@ns0.telegraph.co.uk> ****************** InterScan Message (on ns0) noname scanned and no virus found ********************************************************* NO TRICKS - IT'S FREE! Process all major credit cards on your web site. NO MONTHLY COSTS, NO TRANSACTION FEES. CHECK IT OUT. You get: - Virtual Terminal for phone/fax/mail orders - Email receipt - Recurring billing feature - Password generation for membership sites - Automatic batch closing - Address Verification Service (AVS) - Backoffice to access account history - Remote mode - Interface for all major shopping carts - Installation included For our free information package just reply to: mailto:yetr at iname.com?subject=more_info If you are interested in becoming an authorized agent please reply to: mailto:yetr at iname.com?subject=agent If you wish to be removed from our mailing list please reply to: mailto:grekk2 at hotbot.com?subject=remove From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 9 16:09:02 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:09:02 +0800 Subject: [ZKS Press Release] 50th Anniversary of the Declaration of HumanRights a Reminder th at Privacy must be Preserved Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Nicola Dourambeis To: ZKS Press Releases Subject: [ZKS Press Release] 50th Anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights a Reminder th at Privacy must be Preserved Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:13:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-zks-press at zks.net Precedence: normal Reply-To: press at zks.net ======================================================== Zero-Knowledge Systems Press Release, http://www.zks.net ======================================================== 50th Anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights a Reminder that Privacy must be Preserved. Web site launched to allow citizens of the world to protest their loss of privacy. December 9, 1998 (Montreal)--On the 50th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), as well as in protest of the recent changes to cryptography policies worldwide, Zero-Knowledge Systems is spearheading a campaign to encourage governments to loosen newly imposed cryptography restrictions. This campaign, seen on the web site http://www.freecrypto.org, enables citizens of the world to express their outrage and concern at the increasing loss of their privacy. Article 12 of the UDHR states, "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family home, or correspondence...." Yet, decades later, we are witnessing the unprecedented collection of personal information and intrusions into the lives of many. Internet users in particular, confront multiple privacy violations while online. Over 80% of Internet users polled consider privacy be their primary concern. The best defense for online privacy is to use strong cryptography, which allows Internet users to preserve the privacy of their communications and personal information. On December 3, 1998, the Internet community experienced one of the strongest setbacks to their privacy in recent years. The 33 member countries of the Wassenaar Arrangement agreed for the first time to impose export restrictions on mass-market cryptography products. Until December 3rd, the majority of the Wassenaar signatories did not impose export controls over mass-market products that protect personal security and privacy through cryptography. The United States Department of Commerce Under-Secretary has taken credit for convincing all other Wassenaar countries to impose these added restrictions over cryptography designed for average citizens. Barry Steinhardt, President of the Electronic Frontier Foundation believes "The US government has strong-armed the rest of the industrialized world into adopting a policy that will make us less secure and more vulnerable to electronic terrorism. Our critical national and international infrastructures need to be protected by strong encryption. Weak encryption with back doors that will be exploited not just by governments, but by information pirates, will leave us at greater risk." "It is not too late to reverse course," continues Steinhardt. "Wassenaar allows, but does not require, the other national governments to follow the US' foolish lead." "Cryptography is the key to preserving privacy for Internet users," explains Austin Hill, President of Zero-Knowledge Systems. "By limiting the accessibility of cryptography, you are limiting people's ability to protect themselves. Now, more than ever, we have the ability to influence the future of the electronic world; we must ensure that it has the same the basic rights and protections that the UDHR promised us fifty years ago." Hill continues, "We hope that Internet users will be proactive in protesting this human rights infringement to their governments. The freecrypto.org web site provides such a space, where users can learn about the issues and send their government representatives a message expressing their dissatisfaction with the tightening of cryptography controls." The freecrypto.org web site provides a form that citizens can fill out and have faxed or emailed to their respective government representatives. It also provides information and articles on the recently imposed cryptography restrictions. ---------------------------------------------------------------30----------- ---------------------------------------------------- The Electronic Frontier Foundation is one of the leading civil liberties organizations devoted to ensuring that the Internet remains the world's first truly global vehicle for free speech, and that the privacy and security of all on-line communication is preserved. Founded in 1990 as a nonprofit, public interest organization, EFF is based in San Francisco, California and maintains an extensive archive of information on free speech, privacy, and encryption policy at http://www.eff.org. Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc., http://www.zks.net, is a Canadian based software developer dedicated to providing cryptographic solutions for the privacy and security of Internet users. They will be launching their first product called Freedom(tm) in February 1999. For more information, contact: Nicola Dourambeis Alex Fowler, Marketing Associate Director of Public Affairs Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc. Electronic Frontier Foundation Tel. (514) 286-2636 ext. 222 Tel. (415) 436-9333 ext. 103 Email. nicola at zks.net Email. afowler at eff.org --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mclow at owl.csusm.edu Wed Dec 9 16:11:24 1998 From: mclow at owl.csusm.edu (Marshall Clow) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:11:24 +0800 Subject: No Subject ( camera nonsense ) In-Reply-To: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com> Message-ID: > The wire loops (in sets of two a few meters apart) are in every stretch of > freeway in California. They report the numbers and speed of all > vehicles. Have so for decades. This allows the Caltrans operation centers > to instantly identify backups due to accidents, etc. Once in a while, the > evening news do a story on these operation centers. > > So we still don't know what the grey sensors do. Note that these sensors > are typically mounted only above the two right lanes. Check out for real-time results of these sensors. You used to be able to get results for individual sensors, but they made the site "easier to use". -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Freedom isn't being able to do what you like, it's allowing someone else to do or say something you hate and supporting their right to do so. From mgraffam at idsi.net Wed Dec 9 16:14:42 1998 From: mgraffam at idsi.net (mgraffam at idsi.net) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:14:42 +0800 Subject: A server for a crypto CD? Message-ID: Hello all .. Does anyone have a server with a CDROM drive? I have a 500+ meg archive of crypto-related material (crypto, stego, tempest, information theory, etc). Lots of software, applications, and papers (100M or so). I'd be glad to burn out a CD, and send it to anyone who can put the material online. It'll take time to get it ready: I need time to strip out some stuff (non-redistributable Fortezza stuff .. its probably a moot point, now that we have Skipjack, but why risk it for something so dumb?). If you have the bandwidth, let me know. Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam at idsi.net) They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers.. call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt From pcw at flyzone.com Wed Dec 9 16:14:44 1998 From: pcw at flyzone.com (Peter Wayner) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:14:44 +0800 Subject: What happened to this NY Times article on STOA andEchelon? In-Reply-To: <006401be239b$9d75d200$4164a8c0@mve21> Message-ID: The search software at the NYT leaves much to be desired. If you enter from the front page, it assumes you only want to search TODAY's copy of the paper. You have to re-search and click on the whole archives. Of course, that often yields too many articles to wade through. For speed, here's the index of Guissani's columns. Read them all! (But don't collect them and post them to your own website. That's copyright violation.) http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/reference/indexeurobytes.html Here's the article in question: http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/euro/022498euro.html From rwenzler at usachoice.com Wed Dec 9 16:20:21 1998 From: rwenzler at usachoice.com (Robert Wenzler) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:20:21 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <366F0A1A.654798B3@usachoice.com> HaB wrote: > That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > electronic equivalent of one?" > > balance. Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? One word: postcard. From MultexInvestorNetwork at multexsys.com Wed Dec 9 19:13:32 1998 From: MultexInvestorNetwork at multexsys.com (Multex Investor Network) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:13:32 +0800 Subject: Welcome To The Multex Investor Network Message-ID: <0caae1344020ac8SMTPGW1@multexnet.com> Dear Jane: Thank you for becoming a member of The Multex Investor Network! We look forward to bringing you the world's best and most complete selection of investment research. We will also be in touch periodically to alert you to new features, partnerships and offerings. We're excited you have become one of the thousands of serious investors who have joined our community. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Your User ID is: cypherpinks Your password is not displayed in this message for security reasons ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To complete the registration process and verify your email address, you will need to activate your account the next time you log in by entering the code below after you log in. Please note, you will not be asked for your activation code until after you have logged in with your User ID and password. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Activation Code is: 295085 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- You may want to keep a copy of this E-Mail. If you prefer, you may activate your account immediately by pointing your browser to http://www.multexinvestor.com/login.asp. After you log-in, you will be asked to enter your activation code. We look forward to serving you and welcome your comments. You can reach us at mailto:feedback.min at multexsys.com. Sincerely, Jim Tousignant Senior Vice President From measl at mfn.org Wed Dec 9 19:15:48 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:15:48 +0800 Subject: A server for a crypto CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We have an open CD platter available, and would be *very* happy to host it, although it would be a low-bandwidth slot. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 mgraffam at idsi.net wrote: :Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:24:31 -0500 (EST) :From: mgraffam at idsi.net :To: cypherpunks at toad.com :Subject: A server for a crypto CD? : : :Hello all .. : :Does anyone have a server with a CDROM drive? : :I have a 500+ meg archive of crypto-related material (crypto, stego, :tempest, information theory, etc). Lots of software, applications, :and papers (100M or so). : :I'd be glad to burn out a CD, and send it to anyone who can put the :material online. It'll take time to get it ready: I need time to :strip out some stuff (non-redistributable Fortezza stuff .. its probably :a moot point, now that we have Skipjack, but why risk it for something :so dumb?). : :If you have the bandwidth, let me know. : :Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam at idsi.net) :They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the :regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers.. :call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order." : - Franklin Delano Roosevelt : : From ks at pobox.com Wed Dec 9 19:28:45 1998 From: ks at pobox.com (KS) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:28:45 +0800 Subject: No Subject ( camera nonsense ) In-Reply-To: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com> Message-ID: <199812100302.TAA04421@pickles.eminencesoftware.com> On the 10 Freeway about 2 miles east of Downtown Los Angeles, three are overhead rails on both sides of the freeway with a "sensor" of some type over EACH lane. A total of about 10 sensors. There are also cameras all over the place. I would imagine that it is a future revenue center for the state of California. Obfuscate your license plate to lower your road taxes. From adam at homeport.org Thu Dec 10 11:48:15 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:48:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lecture Notes in Computer Science - free online Access In-Reply-To: <199812100039.BAA17888@medoc.springer.de> Message-ID: <19981210150255.B10407@weathership.homeport.org> Has the mirror been completed yet? :) Adam On Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 01:39:28AM +0100, Nobody wrote: | This Mail contains user ID and password! | | ------------------------------------------------------------ | User ID: lncs | password: uid387xf | ------------------------------------------------------------ | Please keep in mind that: | - you agreed to keep these confidential | - systematic download is not permitted! From rah at shipwright.com Thu Dec 10 12:13:37 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:13:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:05 AM -0500 on 12/10/98, Ken Williams wrote: > "Strike to protest Wassenaar!" > > URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ > > "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on > Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar > Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions > on cryptographic software technology. Now, *this* is interesting... Anyone actually contemplating doing this? I mean, we could *all* stand to do a little extra (meatspace) Christmas shopping on Monday, right? (Then, I guess, we could all do our cypherspace Christmas shopping on *Tuesday*, just to drive the point home, stick-and-carrot-wise...) Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Dec 9 21:18:48 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:18:48 +0800 Subject: lots of juicy y2k news Message-ID: <199812100437.UAA23232@netcom13.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:41:51 -0700 From: Bill Mee Subject: Y2K Alert - San Francisco blackout - Pentagon way behind schedul The following is a free Y2K alert + analysis from Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM. ____________________________________________________________ SPECIAL ALERT SAN FRANCISCO BLACKOUT! Guess what, folks: the power system *is* vulnerable to a domino-effect failure. Earlier today (Tuesday), over one million residents of San Francisco lost power. According to this WIRED story (link below), here's what happened (as described by the WIRED story): "An electrical power substation about 20 miles south of San Francisco failed shortly after 8:15 a.m. Tuesday, causing a chain reaction that tripped the two main power generators in San Francisco and knocked out power to 375,000 utility customers in a 49-mile square area. Pacific Gas and Electric estimated that 938, 000 people were affected by the outage." The story quotes Peter Neumann, author of "Computer Related Risks," as saying, "The entire power generation, transmission, and distribution problem is suffering, because there is very little spare power anymore." The cause of the problem? According to the power company, "The cause of the outage was simple human error, which then triggered a complex sequence of events." That's frightening. If "simple human error" can cause this, what might complex human error (i.e. Y2K) cause? The power outage caused massive problems. The SFO airport suffered a total power failure and was running on generators, and BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit system, lost 17 of its 57 trains. Elevators were stuck mid-floor and the morning commute was a frenzy. THE SAN FRANCISCO REMINDER This event is a reminder of what can happen when Y2K hits, and it alerts us to the fallibility of the power services. This was ONE little glitch. What happens when the Y2K rollover causes a hundred such problems? Or a thousand? And then you combine those little glitches with other little glitches from the phone system, the 911 system, the transportation infrastructure and the banks. What do you get then? By the way, this little incident is also going to deplete inventories of generators in the Bay Area as people finally get it: Hey, we could lose power! If you live in San Fran and you've been *thinking* about getting a generator, you're now TOO LATE. But it's not too late to move out of the city altogether, which is probably the safest option, considering what might happen if the power stays off for DAYS instead of hours. In this case, power was restored within hours to most customers, but that might not be the case when Y2K hits. Y2KNEWSWIRE encourages people to stock a 30-day supply of food, water, medicine, cash and heating supplies in case a much longer power outage occurs during the 1/1/2000 rollover. Or better yet, distance yourself from any high-density population center. AN OVERVIEW OF THE POWER PROBLEM * There are few backup power supplies available, so some failures that used to have backups no longer do * Failures DO cascade throughout the system. In this case, one small substation caused a power loss to one million people * Power failures almost immediately bring a city to its knees. All transportation is immediately threatened, and few businesses have enough fuel to run generators longer than 24 hours. * All it takes is one simple little human mistake to cause one million people to lose power. What might a complex, unpredictable problem like Y2K cause to happen? * Demands on the power system are higher than ever, and extra power bandwidth is almost non-existent. There is very little "extra" to go around if power stations start to fail. Read the WIRED story at: http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16710.html Or, an earlier report at: http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16709.html Fox News reports on it, too, at: http://www.foxnews.com/stage04.sml PENTAGON WAY BEHIND ON Y2K REPAIRS This Union Tribune story (link below) describes the unimpressive status of the Pentagon's Y2K repairs, stating, "...a recent Pentagon report states that the Defense Department is behind its own schedule for rewriting computer software to work after 1999. While 52 percent of the military's mission-critical weapons and computers meet Y2K standards, the Pentagon schedule calls for 100 percent compliance by the end of this month." There's another deadline that won't be met. It's the old December 31, 1998 milestone, remember? So what's going on here, really? "Y2K is taking longer than expected," says John Pike, a military analyst for the Federation of American Scientists. The Army and Air Force are 70% behind schedule and 30% of the Navy's systems are behind schedule. Yet, somehow, the Air Force is promising to have 85% of its systems compliant in the "coming weeks." The story also reports how the NSA (National Security Agency) has only 19% of its systems ready, and some fixes aren't even scheduled to be done until October of 1999. And that's if they're on-time! DENIAL IN ACTION With all this in mind, this story reports that John Hamre, the Pentagon's No. 2 civilian says, "The Department of Defense will be able to defend the United States of America on the 1st of January 2000, no question about it." Then another Pentagon official (unnamed) says *other* countries are still in denial. THE ACCIDENTAL NUKE LAUNCH THEORY The nuke launch theory resurfaces in this story, too, with the following: "Hobbled by a flat-line economy and deteriorating military, Russia's nuclear weapons systems are susceptible to the Y2K Bug, says analyst Kraig. Or, he says, computer glitches in American early-warning systems might falsely indicate a Russian missile launch. He suggests that the United States, Russia and other nations with nuclear weapons stand down their missiles until potential Y2K problems are resolved." Link at: http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/sun/news/news_1n6year. html BUT CAN MISSILES REALLY LAUNCH ON THEIR OWN? Yep. South Korea proved it just last Friday. Read this story: CIRCUITRY GLITCH LAUNCHES MISSILE IN SOUTH KOREA While the world debates whether nuclear missiles might be accidentally launched by a Y2K-related computer glitch, last Friday saw a fully-armed anti-aircraft missile *accidentally* fired in South Korea. It killed three people from the raining debris. This Reuters story reports: "The Korean air force said in a statement that a circuitry defect occurred as soldiers turned on a switch which signified that all was ready for inspection. 'Normally the missile cannot be launched with this switch,' the statement said. 'A circuitry problem, not human error, was the cause of the accident,' it added." Obviously, nuclear missile have far more robust safeguards against accidental launch than an anti-aircraft missile, but the comparisons are inevitable. At the very least, this incident proves once and for all that problems with the circuitry (embedded systems) can cause missiles to accidentally launch. Read the story at: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wl/story.html? s=v/nm/19981204/wl/korea_36.html (Sorry about the extra-long URL link. You might have to reattach the two halves if your e-mail program 'wrapped' it.) WILL GOD PROVIDE? It's fascinating. Here at Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM, we receive about ten remove requests each week stating, essentially, "Take me off this list. I don't need to prepare. God will provide for me." We're guessing these people forgot about the story of Noah. God helps those people who prepare, not those who ignore all the warnings and think of God as some kind of giant FEMA service. Whether or not you think God will help you through this crisis, you *still* need to prepare. Don't let your faith in God be an excuse to do nothing. The people *best* prepared for Y2K, it seems, are those who are spiritually, mentally and physically prepared. MORE DETAILS ON FDIC'S CUSTOMER PROFILING PLAN We've been called frauds and hoaxers for mentioning the FDIC's new "Big Brother" plans that would have banks tracking and monitoring all your private banking behavior and reporting to the "authorities" any time your behavior veers from what's considered, "normal." Some of you didn't believe this was real. You were skeptical. So today we're posting the actual link on the FDIC's site that spells it out. Read it yourself and wake up: the banks and the FDIC are going to play hardball on this Y2K issue. They'll do everything in their power to discourage cash withdrawals while putting a positive spin on it (notice the tame name, the "Know Your Customer" program!). Why? Because they're fighting for survival. Here's some of the text from the FDIC site (link below): "SUMMARY: The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured nonmember banks to develop and maintain "Know Your Customer'' programs. As proposed, the regulation would require each nonmember bank to develop a program designed to determine the identity of its customers; determine its customers' sources of funds; determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers; monitor account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal[[Page 67530]]and expected transactions; and report any transactions of its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FDIC's existing suspicious activity reporting regulation." Notice the words being used here: ...determine the identify... determine customers' sources of funds...monitor account activity.. .report any transactions determined to be suspicious... suspicious activity reporting regulation. These are not the ideas that should be promoted in a free society. These phrases belong in the realm of a Police State, where every person is monitored in order to "root out the criminals." Or, in this case, to root out people wanting cash for Y2K. What happened to the idea of privacy for American citizens? If this FDIC regulation passes, you can forget about it. Not only will federal authorities have the right to dig through your bank records at their leisure, the people working at the bank will be legally *required* to snoop on you. Interestingly, the proposed FDIC Big Brother regulation may actually accelerate the cash demand as people try to beat the "Know Your Customer" deadline and get their cash out early. The FDIC may actually cause its own worst nightmare. Read the text yourself at: http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knocus.txt Want to comment on the FDIC's Big Brother plan? Here's the information given by the FDIC: DATES: Comments must be received by March 8, 1999. ADDRESSES: Comments should be directed to: Robert E. Feldman, Executive Secretary, Attention: Comments/OES, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, 550 17th Street, N.W., Washington, DC 20429. Comments may be hand-delivered to the guard station at the rear of the 550 17th Street Building (located on F Street), on business days between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. In addition, comments may be sent by fax to (202) 898-3838, or by electronic mail to comments at FDIC.gov. Comments may be inspected and photocopied in the FDIC Public Information Center, Room 100, 801 17th Street, NW, Washington, D.C., between 9 a.m. and 4:30 p.m., on business days. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Carol A. Mesheske, Special Activities Section, Division of Supervision, (202) 898-6750, or Karen L. Main, Counsel, Legal Division (202) 898-8838. But wait! The FDIC e-mail address given here *doesn't even work! * It appears the FDIC doesn't really want your comments. We dug up the right address: commentsoes at fdic.gov WIGGLE ROOM Don't ya love these Year 2000 "compliance statements" put out by banks? Here's one sent in by a reader. It shows *lots* of wiggle room: "California Federal Bank has already anticipated these problems. Our Year 2000 Project Team has conducted a comprehensive review to determine the changes we need to make to our systems. Some of the modifications are currently being made, and we expect to test and have the majority of the modifications functioning by December 31, 1998. I hope that I have been able to address all of your concerns. If you have any further questions, written inquiries may be mailed to our Year 2000 Project Team..." With this kind of statement, even missing the December 31 deadline means you're still "on track" because you can claim that you never promised ALL the systems would be done on time. Here's our favorite phrase: "comprehensive review." If you've ever been part of any committee, you're fully aware of the meaningless of this phrase. RIGHT ON TIME, CNN USES THE WORD, 'HOARDING' Just as Y2KNEWSWIRE warned, some media outlets are going to start bashing those who are smart enough to prepare for Y2K. Right on cue, CNN publishes this AP story entitled, "Worry over Y2K sparks hoarding of dried foods." See it at: http://www.cnn.com/FOOD/news/9812/07/y2k.hoarding.ap/ WATCH CAREFULLY! Watch for the gerund "hoarding" to metamorph into a plural noun: "hoarders!" It will happen, and when it does, that's a sign that the mainstream is beginning the attack on those who prepare. We predicted it months ago, and you'll see it soon enough, because the people who waited until the last minute are going to be angry when they can't find the supplies they want. And who will they blame? Those who prepared early, of course. That is, unless the folks in Washington show some leadership and actually encourage people to take some common-sense, basic preparations. In fact, just today, Y2KNEWSWIRE issues a nationwide press release urging John Koskinen to take some action on this. Read our statement at: http://www.y2knewswire.com/koskinen.htm DETAILS ON THE POSTAL SERVICE? There's one government agency we haven't heard much from on Y2K yet: the postal service. If you work for the USPS and you'd like to tell us what you know about its Y2K preparedness, give us a shout at tips at y2knewswire.com We'll keep you anonymous, of course, so you don't get fired. MISSOURI DEPT. OF HEALTH DEMANDS DOCTORS PROVE THEIR COMPLIANCE The Missouri Dept of Health is getting Missouri doctors hot under the collar. A recent letter sent to all Missouri-based health practitioners commands them to present detailed descriptions of the steps they've taken to make their computers Y2K-compliant. These must be returned by December 24th of this year, and those who are late will receive stiff penalties. Our guess is the Mo. Dept. of Health isn't even compliant yet. More importantly, this brings up a critical Y2K point: you can't just DEMAND everything be fixed on time. That doesn't mean it will be fixed. China is trying this right now, threatening criminal sentencing for companies that don't get compliant in time. (Wow, neat trick.) The state of Florida is trying something similar, although probably without the China-style imprisonment. It's hilarious to see bureaucrats beat their heads against the wall on this. They're so used to passing laws to change peoples' behavior, they think it applies to Y2K as well. They think they can just *regulate* the results of Y2K repairs, actually causing things to be fixed by simply demanding so. If anything, Y2K is going to laughingly demonstrate the futility of over-legislation. If you criminalize "not being compliant," you don't solve the problem, you just end up with LOTS of criminals after 2000. FCC WORRIED ABOUT PLANES HITTING TOWERS As often as the Y2K skeptics refer to, "planes falling out of the sky," they almost never give it the serious thought it deserves. There are, in fact, a dozen or more ways planes can actually "fall from the sky," all related to Y2K. The FCC recently revealed yet another one we haven't thought of yet: planes hitting unlit radio towers. In fact, this scenario has the FCC so worried, they recently issued an "Antenna Structure Lighting Responsibilities" statement. Their summary of the problem leaves nothing to the imagination. They say, "Y2K-related problems could cause a structure's light systems to fail, which will create a hazard to air navigation. Computer-controlled devices, such as those found in automatic monitoring and control systems used for antenna structure lighting, are vulnerable to Y2K-related malfunctions, and may fail. Commercial electric power sources may also fail, leaving antenna structures vulnerable to blackouts." The statement goes further, saying, "The Commission considers all light outages and malfunctions as extremely serious situations. We therefore expect antenna structure owners (and licensees, who are secondarily responsible in the event of default by the owner) to become aware of the ways in which Y2K-related problems may affect their light systems, and to be prepared to promptly report and remedy all outages and malfunctions." Can you say, "Y2K lawsuit?" We already know that at least *two* planes are going to be in the sky that night: one carrying Jane Garvey and the other carrying John Koskinen. Suppose one of these hits a radio tower (because the lights mysteriously went out). Major lawsuit time. The FCC has already warned the holders of the FCC licenses they are, "secondarily responsible" for such events. In lawyer-speak, that means KA-CHING! Pass the bankroll, buddy, you just bought yourself a 747. To review some of the many various ways planes can actually fall out of the sky: 1) Ground control radar could fail, causing the planes to run out of fuel. 2) Electronics in the plane itself could fail, causing the pilot to lose control of the aircraft, resulting in a crash. 3) Navigation electronics could fail, sending the plane into a mountain or straight into the ground. 4) Faulty air traffic control could result in a mid-air collision, taking out *two* planes at once. 5) Problems with refueling systems or fuel indicators could make the ground crew or the pilot think the plane has more fuel than it does, causing a mid-air depletion of fuel (doesn't seem likely, but it's one more potential scenario). Read the FCC details at: http://www.fcc.gov/cib/Public_Notices/da982408.html THE Y2KNEWSWIRE MAIL BAG (Actual e-mail sent from readers.) "Greetings. I had quite a disturbing reality take place today. I live in Seattle, WA and I bank with Seafirst, a northwest bank owned by Bank of America. I went to my local bank with the intentions of withdrawing my menial savings account of approximately $3,000. I walked into my bank, filled out a withdrawal slip, and approached a teller. When the young woman behind the counter saw the amount that I was trying to withdrawal, she literally began to panic. She had a brief conference with a few of her co-workers and then informed me that the bank did not have the cash to give to me! They were literally "out of money" as she told me. "You could try and come back later today and we MIGHT have enough then" she told me. I began to think what a scary situation we are going to be witnessing when 10 people try to withdraw just $3,000 each from their accounts! Y2KNEWSWIRE ASKS FOR YOUR HELP Have you recently received a notice from your bank designed to limit your access to your own money? If so, we'd like to hear about it. One reader sent in this notice: "In accordance with Federal Reserve Regulation D, [bank name] will continue to reserve the right to require a 7-day notice on the withdrawal of funds in any money market or savings account." We suspect banks are quietly taking action to place limits on your ability to get cash. If you have evidence of this at *your* bank, you can e-mail us at tips at y2knewswire.com - - - Webmaster _____________________________________________ Get ready for Y2K, read the Y2K Sourcebook Get the inside sources for stocking up now http://www.y2ksupply.com/index.asp?pageid=sourcebook _____________________________________________ Tell a friend about the free Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM e-mail alert: http://www.y2knewswire.com/tellafriend.htm _____________________________________________ Sign the banking crisis petition, help save the banks! http://www.y2ksupply.com/bankpetition.htm _____________________________________________ This e-mail message is subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.y2knewswire.com/Index.asp?pageid=disclaimer All statements made herein, and made since August of 1998, are Year 2000 Statements and are retroactively protected as Year 2000 readiness disclosures under the Good Samaritan Act _____________________________________________ This message brought to you by: Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM Feel free to forward this e-mail to anyone. This may be posted on any web site if credit is given to: http://www.y2knewswire.com _____________________________________________ To be removed from this e-mail list, simply go to the following web address: http://www.y2ksupply.com/u.asp?E=bill.mee at lmco.com Or forward this section to removes at y2knewswire.com _____________________________________________ Join the "believers-only" free Y2K e-mail newsletter: http://www.y2ksupply.com/believers.htm _____________________________________________ HOW TO REACH US: If you have a hot tip for us (anonymity assured): tips at y2knewswire.com If you have a compliment: compliments at y2knewswire.com If you want to be added to the subscription list (free!), visit http://www.y2knewswire.com and enter your e-mail address in the sign up box located at the upper-left corner of the page. If you have a complaint: complaints at y2knewswire.com For questions about ordering: service at y2knewswire.com For any other comments: comments at y2knewswire.com - - --------------0220774A6B2AF7E94E7A812F-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Wed Dec 9 23:00:36 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:00:36 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812100628.BAA18557@mail.video-collage.com> From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 10 15:06:27 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:06:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole) Message-ID: <199812102307.AAA08302@replay.com> Are items freely exportable between countrys that are party to this agreement? >Systems that do not meet those conditions are export-controlled if they >use symmetric encryption with more than 56 bit keys, algorithms based >on factorization or on logarithms in finite fields with more than 512 >bit keys (e.g. RSA, DH) or on discrete logarithms in other groups (such >as elliptic curves) with more than 112 bits. They may be exported for >personal use. From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Wed Dec 9 23:27:47 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:27:47 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812100655.BAA20370@mail.video-collage.com> From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 10 15:38:58 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:38:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: riots cancelled on account of weather.. Message-ID: <199812102340.AAA11263@replay.com> At 02:45 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for >Y2K in San Fran. > >Any rioting? > Too cold and rainy. You need a summer outage for true fun. From privsoft at ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 10 16:22:25 1998 From: privsoft at ix.netcom.com (Steve Orrin) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:22:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <367062FA.AA2ADF58@ix.netcom.com> I believe that a mass strike only hurts our employers, not the gov'ts that are afflicting us with crap like Wassenaar. I propose that we designate Monday "International Export Crypto Day". We should pick a gov't agency or member (in a gov't other than our own) and email crypto to him/her. Mass effort will demonstrate the absolute idiocy of regulations like Wassenaar. maybe even a mass chain letter with RSA in 3 lines of perl emailed all over the world and forward via typical chain letter mechanisms. so privsoft at ix.netcom.com Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: > > This is an excellent idea... I have just massmailed an announcement > to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December. > Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations > who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate > when they know they are no alone... > > Yours, > J.A. Terranson > sysadmin at mfn.org > > -- > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the > first place... > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote: > > :Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST) > :From: Ken Williams > :To: cypherpunks at toad.com > :Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar > : > :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > : > : > :Hi, > : > :"Strike to protest Wassenaar!" > : > :URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ > : > :"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on > :Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar > :Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions > :on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise > :awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. > :government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the > :strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other > :countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has > :limited its own." > : > : > :Regards, > : > :Ken Williams > : > :Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ > :E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org > :NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu > :PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ > : > :___________________________________________________________________ > :Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov > : > :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > :Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use > :Charset: noconv > : > :iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA > :HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR > :UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK > :iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq > :f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2 > :dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw== > :=DaVN > :-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > : > : From webmaster at max-web.com Thu Dec 10 16:36:06 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:36:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com> Not only will Maximum Web Design (www.max-web.com) not be operating on December 14, I have plenty of bandwith for a page with all the participants. Would be happy to maintain it too... Please e-mail me. anti-wassenaar at max-web.com Only serious requests -=WITH A URL=- will be accepted. Will post the address to the list asap. At 10:11 AM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote: > >This is an excellent idea... I have just massmailed an announcement >to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December. >Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations >who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate >when they know they are no alone... > >Yours, >J.A. Terranson >sysadmin at mfn.org > >-- >If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they >should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: >Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of >unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in >the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and >elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire >populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... >This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States >as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > >The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, >associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of >those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the >first place... >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote: > >:Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST) >:From: Ken Williams >:To: cypherpunks at toad.com >:Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar >: >:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >: >: >:Hi, >: >:"Strike to protest Wassenaar!" >: >:URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ >: >:"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on >:Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar >:Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions >:on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise >:awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. >:government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the >:strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other >:countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has >:limited its own." >: >: >:Regards, >: >:Ken Williams >: >:Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ >:E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org >:NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu >:PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ >: >:___________________________________________________________________ >:Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov >: >:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >:Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use >:Charset: noconv >: >:iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA >:HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR >:UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK >:iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq >:f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2 >:dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw== >:=DaVN >:-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >: >: > -Kevlar From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 01:09:50 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:09:50 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812100837.DAA27571@mail.video-collage.com> From xoomoffer at aladdinsys.com Thu Dec 10 17:57:17 1998 From: xoomoffer at aladdinsys.com (Zoom Camera Offer) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:57:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ADV] Special XOOM Camera Offer Message-ID: ************************************ You have received this mailing as a result of joining our information list. If you would like to be removed from this list please refer to the instructions found at the bottom of this email. ************************************ Dear Aladdin Customer: Did you ever want to participate in video chats, send real-time video and video mail, or even add moving or still pictures to almost any computer document? Now you can, AND at a super-low price. Aladdin has partnered with XOOM.com to offer you The ZOOM Video Cam from that great modem company, ZOOM Telephonics! It's the most affordable, full-color, live-motion, digital camera for your PC. And because of this special arrangement, we can offer it to you for ONLY $79.95! This is a terrific price, as it normally sells for $149.95. Hurry and order today,there are LIMITED SUPPLIES! To order, or for more information, go to this special URL: http://orders.xoom.com/zvc/1wzvc1124/ Look at the great features of the ZOOM Telephonics Video Camera: ** Easy Installation - Just plug the camera cable into the included Zoom/Video Capture Card. ** Compact Design - Sits easily on your desk or computer monitor with weighted base for excellent stability. It can also be used with standard camera tripod. ** High Quality Optics - Has multi-element, anti-reflection coating. The focus is adjustable from 2 inches to infinity. ** Auto Focus - Automatic adjustment to lighting conditions ensures excellent image quality under a wide range of light conditions. For video mail, just attach a video file for your friends and family. Show them your pet, your new house, even your new baby! ZOOM's video software attaches a "player" application so that it can be viewed and heard on a PC without any special hardware or software. The microphone is included too, so all you need is a sound card. 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Sincerely yours, Aladdin and XOOM.com *************************************** If you would prefer not to receive Aladdin news and special offers in the future, please send an e-mail to listserv at listserver.digitalriver.com with the words "UNSUBSCRIBE Aladdin-Win" (without the quotes) in the body of the e-mail. *************************************** From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 02:25:05 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:25:05 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812100948.EAA00801@mail.video-collage.com> From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 02:28:25 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:28:25 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101001.FAA01142@mail.video-collage.com> From ddt at lsd.com Thu Dec 10 19:17:19 1998 From: ddt at lsd.com (Dave Del Torto) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:17:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ANNOUNCE] SF Bay Area Cypherpunks Dec '98 Physical Meeting Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SF Bay Area Cypherpunks, 80th Chairborne Regiment December 1998 Physical Meeting Announcement General Info: Sat 12 December 1998 1:00 - 6:00 PM Mrs. Fields' Cookies shop* Embarcadero 4, Embarcadero Center complex - A few paces east of Drumm and Washington St. - Ground floor, North side - Near the payphones - (* Ever been to a 2600 meeting? Same location. Follow your nose.) The December Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks will be held on Saturday 12 December 1998 from 1-6 PM. This is an "Open Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged to attend. Meeting Agenda: "Our agenda is a widely-held secret." 1:00-2:00 Informal pre-meeting gathering - Accepting cookies from strangers, etc. 2:00-6:00 Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Suggested topics: EFF UDHR Event post-event discussion Wassenaar recent news discussion Anonymous Coward conferencing systems Non-US based crypto archives/CD-burning The recent Dutch "Hippiepunkje" visit (some XS4ALL folks were here) Zero-Knowledge Systems beta update Securify, Inc. Harmless Little Boxes discussion CryptoRights Foundation (brief update) CIPHR'99 conference update RSA 1999 Data Security Conference planning PGP Keysigning session: - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming 6:00-? Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting (see meeting notes below). Featured Speakers: (TBD) Meeting Notes: At the December meeting, if there's consensus that it's cold outdoors at 2 PM, we'll probably move to the Uno's Pizzeria or Chevy's on the top level of the Embarcadero Complex (not the top floor of the tower, more like the fourth floor, accessible via the escalators or elevators). Someone please bring a GPS unit! If you haven't seen it yet, "Enemy of the State" is playing in SF at: AMC Kabuki 8 1:30-5:00-7:45-8:10-10:35 Blumenfeld Regency 12:00-2:35-9:00 Empire 3 11:30-2:15-5:00-7:45-10:30 Location Info: Southbound on Market St. from the Embarcadero/Steuart. HARD RIGHT on Drumm St. (not left on Spear). Beat it down to Washington St. (a block or two). RIGHT on Washington, into cul-de-sac. You can almost smell us from there. Or the cookies. The best way to get to Mrs. Fields' is to park _under_ it in the Embarcadero 4 parking lot, accessible from the cul-de-sac. NOTE: Get your PARKING VALIDATED and it's FREE! Food (non-magic cookies) and beverages are available at Mrs. Fields'. There are several other places nearby to grab a snack during the meeting. Location Maps: Mrs. Fields' Cookies: (red star over Mrs. Fields) ............................................................................ IMPORTANT HEADS-UP for January! The January Physical Meeting WILL NOT be held on the usual second Saturday of the month, but rather on 16 January 1999 (the THIRD Saturday) to coincide with the RSA 1999 Data Security Conference from 17-21 Jan), for which many cypherpunks will be in town from all over the world. We're currently scheduled (pending confirmation from the RSA conference chief, which seems likely) to have the meeting from 12 Noon until 6 PM in the "B1" room (or possible "B2") in the SJCC (San Jose Convention Center), which is, conveniently, precisely where the RSA conference is being held. Final meeting info will be available (here) at: If you have any questions, please send them to the Jan co-organizers: Bill Stewart Dave Del Torto -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 Comment: Get interested in computers -- they're interested in YOU! iQA/AwUBNnB+2JBN/qMowCmvEQJ9JwCgyFBttf3aYQS5rWH96Qo2KL9VsoQAnRkl m6cI3EWsSw/hxB6UsNlBdu4d =K41q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From measl at mfn.org Thu Dec 10 19:18:34 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:18:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: <367062FA.AA2ADF58@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: I agree that the primary damage, and resultant attention, is [necessarily] focused upon those whom [indirectly] had the least to do with "inflicting" this upon us (very accurately put), however, it is also the way most likely to generate the necessary awareness of the issues. Our biggest problem isn't that Wassenaar is forced upon us by bureaucrats: our problem is that hundreds of these types of things are forced upon us every year, and *nobody cares*. Our people have become so totally numbed and apathetic, that if they are not "bitten" directly, they could care less. I submit that this strike allows them to be bitten, albeit mildly, and that this *may* (and may very well *not*) raise their attention level a notch or two... Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Steve Orrin wrote: :Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:10:34 -0500 :From: Steve Orrin :To: Missouri FreeNet Administration , : Ken Williams :Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com, cypherpunks at algebra.com, : cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com :Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar : :I believe that a mass strike only hurts our employers, not the gov'ts :that are afflicting us with crap like Wassenaar. I propose that we :designate Monday "International Export Crypto Day". We should pick a :gov't agency or member (in a gov't other than our own) and email crypto :to him/her. Mass effort will demonstrate the absolute idiocy of :regulations like Wassenaar. maybe even a mass chain letter with RSA in 3 :lines of perl emailed all over the world and forward via typical chain :letter mechanisms. : :so :privsoft at ix.netcom.com : : :Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: :> :> This is an excellent idea... I have just massmailed an announcement :> to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December. :> Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations :> who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate :> when they know they are no alone... :> :> Yours, :> J.A. Terranson :> sysadmin at mfn.org :> :> -- :> If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they :> should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: :> Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of :> unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in :> the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and :> elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire :> populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... :> This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States :> as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. :> :> The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, :> associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of :> those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the :> first place... :> -------------------------------------------------------------------- :> :> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote: :> :> :Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST) :> :From: Ken Williams :> :To: cypherpunks at toad.com :> :Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar :> : :> :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- :> : :> : :> :Hi, :> : :> :"Strike to protest Wassenaar!" :> : :> :URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ :> : :> :"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on :> :Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar :> :Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions :> :on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise :> :awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. :> :government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the :> :strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other :> :countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has :> :limited its own." :> : :> : :> :Regards, :> : :> :Ken Williams :> : :> :Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ :> :E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org :> :NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu :> :PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ :> : :> :___________________________________________________________________ :> :Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov :> : :> :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- :> :Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use :> :Charset: noconv :> : :> :iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA :> :HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR :> :UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK :> :iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq :> :f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2 :> :dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw== :> :=DaVN :> :-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- :> : :> : : From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 05:01:06 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:01:06 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101230.HAA05983@mail.video-collage.com> From whgiii at openpgp.net Thu Dec 10 21:11:46 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:11:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com> Message-ID: <199812110422.XAA003.17@whgiii> In <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30 at max-web.com>, on 12/10/98 at 04:36 PM, Kevlar said: >Not only will Maximum Web Design (www.max-web.com) not be operating on >December 14, I have plenty of bandwith for a page with all the >participants. Would be happy to maintain it too... >Please e-mail me. anti-wassenaar at max-web.com >Only serious requests -=WITH A URL=- will be accepted. >Will post the address to the list asap. The domain of openpgp.net will be down in protest on the 14th. Perhaps someone could design a common webpage that we all could use outlining why our sites are down. I also plan on bouncing all mail to the openpgp.net domain on that day. :) -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 06:00:43 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:00:43 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101318.IAA07530@mail.video-collage.com> From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 06:25:13 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:25:13 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101341.IAA08273@mail.video-collage.com> From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 06:51:45 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:51:45 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101411.JAA09463@mail.video-collage.com> From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 07:47:16 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:47:16 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101452.JAA11059@mail.video-collage.com> From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 07:48:16 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:48:16 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812101515.KAA12702@mail.video-collage.com> From Stockpro at public.usa.com Fri Dec 11 00:17:02 1998 From: Stockpro at public.usa.com (Stockpro at public.usa.com) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:17:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Grand prize 10 day trip to HAWAII...Enter the drawing!!!!. Message-ID: <690.100987.666524@user00923.mitc.net> Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of our exciting drawing. And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two! It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mail subscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! There is absolutely no cost to you. Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they are released. The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! You must be at least 18 years old to enter. Mako Capital (Mako) .74 trades on the OTC bulletin board. The stock is deeply discounted and on sale at current share prices. There is reason to believe that the merger with sports group international will be completed the week of December 7th. If this information is accurate, Mako stock could see significantly higher prices in the near term. In addition, their are rumors that additional orders for their Spalding Sports Drink should bring the total number of cases pre-sold for 1999 up to approximately 2 million cases. That translates into approximately 25 million in revenue for 99. The stock could easily trade back to 2.25 or higher based on that kind of revenue. To enter the drawing go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm MAKO Capital (MAKO) .74 and traded on the OTC Bulletin Board. The stock is deeply discounted and on-sale at current share prices. We have reason to believe that the merger with Sports Group International will be completed by the first week of December. If that is true, we look for significantly higher prices in the near term. Also, we hear rumors of additional orders for their Spalding Sports Drinks to bring them up to 2 million pre-sold for '99. That would be over $28 million dollars in revenue. We could easily see the stock trade back to 2.25. Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm Mako Capital has paid Freedom Rock Partners 150,000 shares of free trading stock, and options to purchase 100,000 shares of Mako Capital at $1.00 as a fee to prepare this report. For more information, please read our disclaimer. http://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affilate lists goto: edd at spdy.com and type remove. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads only to interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington State residents. * Responding to the "return address" will NOT have your name removed. From jang at pobox.se Thu Dec 10 08:29:38 1998 From: jang at pobox.se (Jan Garefelt) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:29:38 +0800 Subject: The new Wassenaar regulations; here they are Message-ID: <366FEA7B.5552AB64@pobox.se> Web version: http://www.fitug.de/news/wa/ Word- or RTF-version: http://www.wassenaar.org/List/ Cheers /Jan Garefelt From whgiii at openpgp.net Thu Dec 10 08:38:31 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:38:31 +0800 Subject: Hallandale becomes model for the police state Message-ID: <199812101454.JAA021.00@whgiii> In <3.0.3.32.19981210151350.006add74 at 209.204.247.83>, on 12/10/98 at 09:53 AM, "Albert P. Franco, II" said: >The REAL injustice is that the only way to strike down these ludicrous >laws is to be able to spend upwards of $5,ooo,ooo for litigation. Just think how much more efficient $5,000,000 of ammo would be for resolving these types of problems. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 10 08:57:32 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:57:32 +0800 Subject: What's up with the blank traffic from algebra.com? Message-ID: <199812101555.JAA23959@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Anyone know why algebra.com is throwing the blank messages over the last couple of days? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From whgiii at openpgp.net Thu Dec 10 09:12:55 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:12:55 +0800 Subject: What's up with the blank traffic from algebra.com? Message-ID: <199812101507.KAA021.25@whgiii> In <199812101555.JAA23959 at einstein.ssz.com>, on 12/10/98 at 10:44 AM, Jim Choate said: >Hi, >Anyone know why algebra.com is throwing the blank messages over the last >couple of days? Well I am glad to see it's not just my node that is getting these. :) -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From measl at mfn.org Thu Dec 10 09:16:12 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:16:12 +0800 Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is an excellent idea... I have just massmailed an announcement to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December. Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate when they know they are no alone... Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote: :Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST) :From: Ken Williams :To: cypherpunks at toad.com :Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar : :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- : : :Hi, : :"Strike to protest Wassenaar!" : :URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ : :"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on :Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar :Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions :on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise :awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. :government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the :strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other :countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has :limited its own." : : :Regards, : :Ken Williams : :Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ :E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org :NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu :PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ : :___________________________________________________________________ :Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov : :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- :Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use :Charset: noconv : :iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA :HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR :UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK :iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq :f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2 :dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw== :=DaVN :-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- : : From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Thu Dec 10 09:19:13 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:19:13 +0800 Subject: strange posts Message-ID: <366FF7EE.3350F28E@stud.uni-muenchen.de> I obtained a bunch of totally EMPTY posts from owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM in intervals of about half an hour. Does anyone have the same experience and know what's the matter? (Further it appears that a couple of posts of mine have been delayed and have not yet appreared after the usual waiting time.) M. K. Shen From adam at homeport.org Thu Dec 10 09:21:19 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:21:19 +0800 Subject: knapsack.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981210114517.A8878@weathership.homeport.org> Chor-Rivest was broken at Crypto98. Don't use any knapsack algorithms. Adam On Tue, Dec 08, 1998 at 05:04:22PM +0800, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote: | Where could I find the algorithm (per se) for | Merkle-Hellman knapsack ? | (if it is not for free just say so) :) | | I've read in Mr. Schneier's book that Chor-Rivest knapsack is secure | (unless for some specializerd attack). Is it still as secure today as the | latter years? | | | | | | | | Bernie | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com Fri Dec 11 01:24:43 1998 From: Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com (Marita Näsman-Repo) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:24:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows’ F-Secure VPN+ demo; An easy way to test strong Internet encryption Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981211112352.00937240@smtp.datafellows.com> Press Release For immediate release Data Fellows� F-Secure VPN+ demo An easy way to test strong Internet encryption Espoo, Finland, December 11, 1998. - Data Fellows, one of the world�s leading developers of anti-virus and encryption software, has set up a demo of the commercial version of F-Secure VPN+, whereby companies can test an encrypted IPSec connection between their own machine and a VPN+ Server at the Data Fellows site. The supported platform is Windows NT 4.0 (Intel) with an Ethernet network adapter. The release works on both single and multi-processor machines. An encrypted IPSec connection can be set up by downloading and installing the F-Secure VPN+ Demo Client, available at the Data Fellows web site (http://www.DataFellows.com/f-secure/vpn-plus/demo/), and connecting through it to the F-Secure VPN+ server. This set-up in no way affects a company�s other network traffic; all other hosts and network services may be accessed as usual. Unlike the commercial version of VPN+, it is not possible to create encrypted connections to hosts other than VPNPlus.DataFellows.com. This server cannot be contacted without the VPN+ demo client. The demo client has been configured to establish an IPSec encrypted (3des) connection to VPNPlus.DataFellows.com (IP:194.252.6.42). A random session key will be negotiated for each connection. Host authentication is performed using a shared secret 0x462D534543555245 (i.e. "F-SECURE" in hex). Access to all other networks (local/Internet) is provided without additional IPSec security. In the commercial version of F-Secure VPN+, the network administrator determines which connections are permitted and which connections need to be encrypted. The commercial version of the product features F-Secure Administrator for central management, network wide security policy distribution and F-Secure VPN+ Certificate Wizard for a complete VPN Certificate Authority service. In addition to F-Secure VPN+ Demo Client, a Lotus ScreenCam presentation of F-Secure Administrator can be downloaded, as well as the user�s manual of the commercial version. The presentation shows how easily the network administrator can create and maintain a security policy for the whole Virtual Private Network. End-user installation of the commercial version can be done using AUTOINST network-wide deployment tools and it provides a fully transparent network security solution to the user. No user-interfaces are left to the user to stumble with. About Data Fellows Data Fellows is one of the world�s leading developers of data security products. The Company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data security and cryptography software products for corporate computer networks. It has principal offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland, with regional offices and corporate partners, VARs and other distributors in over 80 countries around the world. Data Fellows has customers in more than 100 countries, including many of the world�s largest industrial corporations and best-known telecommunications companies, major international airlines, European governments, post offices and defense forces, and several of the world�s largest banks. The Company was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations include Hot Product of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); Best Anti-Virus product (SVM Magazine, May 1997); Editor�s Choice (SECURE Computing Magazine); and the 1996 European Information Technology Prize. About F-Secure products All F-Secure products are integrated into the F-Secure Framework management architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based management infrastructure to minimize the costs of security management. F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption, all integrated into a policy-based management architecture. F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple scanning engines (including F-PROT and AVP), is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and protection system for all Windows platforms. F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSec-compliant Virtual Private Network solution for large corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks. F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time encryption directly into the Windows file system. F-Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other connections over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure remote administration tool. F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for remote Internet and Intranet DNS administration. Its easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and simplifies DNS administration. For more information, please contact: USA: Data Fellows Inc. Mr. Pirkka Palom�ki, Product Manager Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701 E-mail: Pirkka.Palom�ki at DataFellows.com Europe: Data Fellows Oy Mr. Topi Hautanen, Product Manager PL 24 FIN-02231 ESPOO Tel. +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599 E-mail: Topi.Hautanen at DataFellows.com or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com -- Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com, World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 10 09:52:30 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:52:30 +0800 Subject: A URL to the Monday strike? Message-ID: <199812101721.LAA24672@einstein.ssz.com> Hi all, Just wondering if there is a URL that describes the proposed strike on Monday? ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 10 09:52:34 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:52:34 +0800 Subject: Message-ID: <199812101653.RAA02619@replay.com> So you'd be happy to staple a check or money order for a bill to a postcard and send it off? Are you trying to be obtuse, or is it just a natural phenomenon with you? At 06:39 PM 12/9/98 -0500, Robert Wenzler wrote: > > >HaB wrote: > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the >> electronic equivalent of one?" >> >> balance. > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? >One word: postcard. From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Fri Dec 11 02:00:02 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:00:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar Message-ID: <802566D7.00361B16.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> Ever played Mornington Crescent? Try the same thing with e-mail. The idea is that only those in the game know "the rules". These rules can change at any time in any way and all "real players" can tell about the new "rules" and adjust accordingly. The idea would be to exchange nothing while make it appear to be exchanging information of real importance. OK so this will be just like any managment memo but you must get my drift. Hack together a proggy to "encrypt" a message but really just generates garbage, just like politicians. Leave patterns in it so it looks real. From petro at playboy.com Thu Dec 10 10:13:12 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:13:12 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: At 6:39 PM -0500 12/9/98, Robert Wenzler wrote: >HaB wrote: > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the >> electronic equivalent of one?" >> >> balance. > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? >One word: postcard. How often do you do this, and how much information do you add to what is already there? Beyond "The scenery is here, wish you were beautiful", how much of your life story would you circulate on a postcard? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From maxinux at bigfoot.com Thu Dec 10 11:10:14 1998 From: maxinux at bigfoot.com (Max Inux) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:10:14 +0800 Subject: COMMENT: Minimum Security Devices and Procedures and Bank Secrecy Message-ID: A letter someone CC'ed to dc-stuff, we seem to be having the same conversations there and here... Waasenaar and FDIC "Know your customer" -- Max Inux Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5 Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:13:55 -0800 (PST) X-Loop: openpgp.net From: KAT in the HAT To: comments at FDIC.gov Subject: COMMENT: Minimum Security Devices and Procedures and Bank Secrecy Act I would like to state that this is the most Orwellian, privacy-invading, search-without-a-warrant, snoopy regulation I have ever seen. I believe it is a horrible idea that should never be allowed. I am growing so tired of my government trying to monitor it's every citizen's every move just in case there may be a criminal act committed. Every citizen is innocent until proven guilty and has a right to privacy against such causeless searches. As the 4th amendment to the Constitution of the United States says (have you ever heard of it?): "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oaths and affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." What you advocate is a warrantless search of all my financial papers and effects without probable cause or evidence of any sort of crime being committed. This kind of nosy government action is exactly the kind of thing that should never be allowed in a free state. I will fight to keep my nation from becoming a 24- hour-a-day, 7-days-a-week monitored police state until my last breath. I urge you to vote against this ghastly measure and to banish it and any act like it to the trashcan. The citizens of the United States deserve better than to be treated like children watched over by Mother Government. If this act is passed, I know what my response will be. I will promptly withdraw all my monies from any institution that follows these regulations, refuse to do any sort of business with them, and urge all my friends and family to do the same. I know that many others will do the same without hesitation. Try explaining to your member and nonmember banks why there is such a sudden cash shortage and why they are losing customers left and right. This act would undoubtedly trigger a nationwide economic crisis as people withdrew from a banking system that had become a puppet of law enforcement and Big Brother. We must be able to TRUST our banks with our money. WE are the customers and any bank that holds goverment surveillance above my trust is no bank that I will do business with. I will simply take my paychecks each month and cash them in their entirety and then do what I want, when I want, unwatched, with my money. I will not be surveilled by Big Brother under the guise of protecting me against shadowy criminals. I value my privacy highly, not because I am a criminal, but because I am a free American, and such privacy is guaranteed to me by our highest legal document (the Constitution). I recommend the FDIC members read it sometime, because obviously they never have before, or this ludicrous act would have never even been proposed. Simply put, this is the worst idea I have ever heard and strongly urge its defeat and nonadoption. Thank you. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The masters of technology will have to be lighthearted and intelligent. The machine easily masters the grim and the dumb. --Marshall McLuhan =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ulf at fitug.de Thu Dec 10 11:20:20 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:20:20 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole) In-Reply-To: <199812101320.IAA12597@smtp1.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199812101815.TAA120782@public.uni-hamburg.de> > The Wassenaar Arrangement has put up the Dec. 3 lists > agreed to by members: To summarize the crypto rules: Software is freely exportable if it has been made available without restrictions upon its further dissemination. Copyright restrictions do not count. Mass market cryto software is no longer covered by the General Software Note, but by a Cryptography Note. Under that note, mass market software and hardware is not controlled if it does not use symmetric keys longer than 64 bits and the cryptographic functionality cannot easily changed by the user. Systems that do not meet those conditions are export-controlled if they use symmetric encryption with more than 56 bit keys, algorithms based on factorization or on logarithms in finite fields with more than 512 bit keys (e.g. RSA, DH) or on discrete logarithms in other groups (such as elliptic curves) with more than 112 bits. They may be exported for personal use. There are exceptions for execution of copy-protected software and read-only media and for phones without end-to-end encryption. The list contains an amusing editorial error which would for the first time allow the export of strong crypto hardware. "Symmetric algorithm" is defined to mean 'a cryptographic algorithm using an identical key for both encryption and decryption', whereas an algorithm using 'different mathematically-related keys for encryption and decryption' is an "asymmetric algorithm". Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement. Better yet, mass-market crypto systems are not controlled if they 'do not contain a "symmetric algorithm" employing a key length exceeding 64 bits'. So you can use, say, 2048 bit RSA with an asymmetric secret-key algorithm of 128 bit key length (so the system does not contain a symmetric algorithm), and you're free to export it. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Thu Dec 10 11:39:53 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:39:53 +0800 Subject: What's up with the blank traffic from algebra.com? In-Reply-To: <199812101555.JAA23959@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812101845.MAA13298@manifold.algebra.com> send the sample messages to me igor Jim Choate wrote: > > > Hi, > > Anyone know why algebra.com is throwing the blank messages over the last > couple of days? > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me > in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, > it is: bullying > Howard Zinn > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > - Igor. From ben at algroup.co.uk Thu Dec 10 11:58:31 1998 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:58:31 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole) In-Reply-To: <199812101815.TAA120782@public.uni-hamburg.de> Message-ID: <36701BB5.BB2D78CC@algroup.co.uk> Ulf M�ller wrote: > Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by > their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on > asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically > are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are > no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement. Hmm - so if I defined a new crytpo algorithm, SED3, say, that looks like this: SED3(k,x)=3DES(backwards(k),x) where backwards(k) is k with its bits written backwards, then the 3DES/SED3(k1,k2) combination is exportable (where k1 is related to k2, of course, by k2=backwards(k1))? Cheers, Ben. -- Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/ and Technical Director|Email: ben at algroup.co.uk | A.L. Digital Ltd, |Apache-SSL author http://www.apache-ssl.org/ London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/ From rwenzler at usachoice.com Thu Dec 10 12:08:53 1998 From: rwenzler at usachoice.com (Robert Wenzler) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:08:53 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3670195D.F23CEDF6@usachoice.com> Mbishop645 at aol.com wrote: > > >HaB wrote: > > > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > >> electronic equivalent of one?" > >> > >> balance. > > > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? > >One word: postcard. > > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the chance for it to fall off. There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to have it go by without much notice. It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do with what amounts to postcard security. What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be willing to do something extra for that security? This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are willing to take. From brownrk1 at texaco.com Fri Dec 11 04:33:12 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:33:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8618@MSX11002> Richard Bragg wrote: > Ever played Mornington Crescent? Try the same thing with > e-mail. The idea is that only those in the game know "the rules". > These rules can change at any time in any way and all > "real players" can tell about the new "rules" and adjust accordingly. showing of course that he either doesn't know the *real* rules of Mornington Crescent or else (more likely) doesn't want to reveal them! Oh, and this posting quite clearly wins this round - even with the new DLR extensions and the Elverson Road footbridge:-) Ken From ichudov at video-collage.com Fri Dec 11 00:25:31 1998 From: ichudov at video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:25:31 +0800 Subject: test2 Message-ID: <199812110738.CAA28223@mail.video-collage.com> test From ichudov at video-collage.com Fri Dec 11 06:13:54 1998 From: ichudov at video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:13:54 +0800 Subject: test4 Message-ID: <199812111331.IAA12442@mail.video-collage.com> test4 From ichudov at video-collage.com Fri Dec 11 06:17:39 1998 From: ichudov at video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:17:39 +0800 Subject: test4 Message-ID: <199812111337.IAA13010@mail.video-collage.com> test4 From jwilso37 at visteonet.com Fri Dec 11 06:23:28 1998 From: jwilso37 at visteonet.com (Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:23:28 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates Message-ID: <199812111341.IAA15146@mailfw1.ford.com> If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws should apply to email. ____________________________________________________ Jamie R. Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler at usachoice.com] Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56 To: Mbishop645 at aol.com Cc: maven at weirdness.com; hab at gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: Re: Mbishop645 at aol.com wrote: > > >HaB wrote: > > > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > >> electronic equivalent of one?" > >> > >> balance. > > > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? > >One word: postcard. > > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the chance for it to fall off. There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to have it go by without much notice. It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do with what amounts to postcard security. What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be willing to do something extra for that security? This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are willing to take. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 11 06:50:03 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:50:03 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <19981210190344.A20157@eskimo.com> Message-ID: I have to agree with Bill here. It's kind of hard to call something "money" if you can't exchange it for other things which also call themselves "money". ;-). Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Fri Dec 11 09:22:04 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:22:04 +0800 Subject: Test Message-ID: <36714505.B04FB3DF@stud.uni-muenchen.de> please ignore this. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 11 10:13:32 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:13:32 +0800 Subject: SSZ had ISDN problems this AM... Message-ID: <199812111710.LAA29487@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Because of the weather change here there was an outage of ISDN connectivity at my ISP. It seems to be back now. No idea if it will return in the next day or so. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 11 10:44:28 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:44:28 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation Message-ID: <199812111722.SAA29143@replay.com> Bill Stewart writes, regarding Wei Dai's b-money protocol: > It still doesn't solve the fundamental problem with the b-money idea, > which is that there's no reason anybody should want to accept it, > any more than they should want to accept dead-president fiat paper money. > It fixes some symptoms of fiat money, but not the fundamental problem, > because it's still fiat money, just with mathematically interesting > artwork printed on the front. B-money is not fiat money. It is better to think of it as commodity money. Unlike most commodity money, in this case the commodity is not intrinsically valuable. However it is scarce, and more can be created only at a considerable cost. An analogy might be money based on a rare earth element like Terbium (which, let's suppose, has no industrial uses). Terbium based money would be immune to inflation, like gold backed money, but the element is not valuable in itself; it is only valuable for its role as money. This leads to an important difference between b-money and fiat money. The value of b-money is not set by fiat. The value is determined automatically by the workings of the market and the workings of the protocol. There is no centralized agency to make b-money legal tender, or to set its value in terms of other currencies. Most importantly, there is no agency which can issue new b-money, inflating and devaluing the currency. Money is a store of value and a medium of exchange. B-money is admirably suited for these purposes, much better than fiat money. The quantity of b-money in a mature system is, roughly speaking, constant. (The quantity may grow, but it will do so slowly, based on the increased demand for b-money.) B-money is an investment which will hold its value. Because it can be exchanged electronically, it is much more flexible as a medium of exchange than existing forms of money. > One of the big problems with fiat money is that someone who > can get other people to trade it for real goods has an > incentive to print lots of it and acquire a very large share > of the real goods in the economy, leaving the rest of the people > with unredeemable artwork and only able to get their share > of goods by giving the fiatmeister labor or other real goods. > > Wei Dai's b-money proposals reduce the incentive to create > lots of b-money by requiring the creator to burn lots of > valuable CPU time to create the mathematical artwork on the notes, Think of this CPU-burning as the effort to mint or mine new b-money. Like other commodity based money, and unlike fiat money, b-money cannot be printed. New b-money can only be added to the money supply by virtue of expending work. This is what insures that there is no inflation. > In some ways, it's even _worse_ than traditional fiat money, > because creating it uses up CPU time that could otherwise be > calculating things that have value for the rest of the economy, > like optimizing airline routes or circuit-board designs, > or less valuable cool things like rendering bug pictures for movies > or calculating the next Mersenne prime or cracking MongoBank's keys, > or, well, drawing space-war pictures real fast on your Nintendo. You could say the same thing about gold mining, in the days when gold was money. Most gold went into circulation as coins, not adding beauty or value to the economy. Its only utility was as an increase in the money supply. But, of course, adding to the money supply is an important contribution. To have a stable commodity money, it must be costly to create more, and the cost must be "wasteful" in the sense that it is not compensated other than by the monetary value of the newly produced money. Otherwise you will get excessive inflation. It's ironic for people to complain that b-money is inferior, in a world in which fiat money is universal. Once the mathematics of b-money are better established and understood, and once the technical issues are clarified and problems solved, this appears to be a very attractive alternative to fiat money. Unlike commodities such as gold, it can be easily exchanged electronically. And unlike fiat money, it is immune to attempts to manipulate the money supply. B-money could easily attract investment as an inflation-proof store of value. This may be enough to initiate the bootstrapping process. People can buy b-money as a store of value, and once they hold it they will want to be able to spend it. This will lead to a demand for merchants to accept it, and the process has begun. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 11 10:45:38 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:45:38 +0800 Subject: Bruce Taylor ed -Reply Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:44:05 -0500 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications From: Dan L Burk Subject: Bruce Taylor ed -Reply To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM >>> Filtering Facts 12/10/98 07:58pm >>> >How is it that you guys all missed the ed. by Bruce Taylor in USA Today >last week? Especially since it contained a plug for me. ;-> Sorry, I probably filtered it out. I've had "Bruce Taylor" in my mental bozofilter ever since he used to work for Charles Keating. The only thing that's changed since then is that (so far as I know) Bruce no longer relies on pilfered S&L funds for his crusades. Now how's that for a filtering fact? ---------------------------- Dan L. Burk Seton Hall University burkdanl at shu.edu ---------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 11 10:48:24 1998 From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:48:24 +0800 Subject: angel 0.5 released Message-ID: <199812111811.SAA04005@notatla.demon.co.uk> My website (software page) should have angel 0.5 on it at around midnight (GMT). This is a mail transfer agent intended to operate well with remailers. Progress since the last release is taking the DH key authentication to a different program so that the RSA secion when added will not be in the main server (angeld). RSA authentication of the DH key is still to be added. -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant at notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Fri Dec 11 10:56:53 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:56:53 +0800 Subject: 2nd reposting of a response to Jim Choate (on crypto archives) Message-ID: <36715BFD.8B6EB309@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Note: There was some technical problem since yesterday to cypherpunks postings, so that my posts to the list didn't result in copies back to me. This morning I reposted these, again without success. An hour ago Igor Chudov informed me that the problem was solved and I have just verified this with a test message. I am therefore reposting once again one of my posts of yesterday here. It is a response to Jim Choate. Please ignore it if you have already seen it. Jim Choate wrote: > > > From: Mok-Kong Shen > > > We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new) > > crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware. > > And also you said that money is no problem! > > You need to go back and re-read what prompted this. Your responce is > completely out of context. > > > Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They > > certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial > > or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company > > and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you > > the one who is cleverer than all the others? > > It depends, do I shop there? > > I'm done with this discussion. You want to expect people to put their neck > on the line and you use their services while owning them nothing then wonder > why nobody does it, so be it. Let me ask you some clear questions and please give me also clear answers: If there is some person who is grown up and is not metally ill and who decides to volunteer to put up an archive site of crypto software for the benefit of those who need them, what do you have against that? Any reasonable person who plans to do some business (for profit) certainly well considers the possible risks he might have. For non-profit activities like what we are discussing it is clear that one is much more careful before launching the work. Why do you want to disuade him from doing that? If he fails, that's his fate but you don't loose a cent because of that. If he puts up a site and that has to be closed down after a couple of months because of unforeseen new crypto laws, you at least profit in that short time period of the possibility of downloading from his site and other people also profit from that. If his country has poor economy (inflation, unemployment etc. leading possibly to early depletion of his monetary resources) or bad infrastucture (total breakdown of telecommunication of his country, rendering his site no longer operable) or religion (because he is physically injured by religious fanatics and therefore unable to work), or whatever other reasons than these three that you mentioned, that's all HIS business not YOURS. He, being in his own country, should know all such risks much much better than you! Be happy that because of him you have one more possibilty of obtaining your desired software (during the time his site is operational)! If he ever gets into trouble, it will be fine of you if you will try to help him, through raising funds etc. But you are not obliged to do that. So I don't understand the motivation of your arguing up till now. I would be able to understand if you were working in an authority attempting to strengthen the effects of crypto laws, thus wishing to have as few archive sites in the world as possible, at best none. (Of course, I know absolutely nothing of you. Should I happen to have made here a wrong assumption about your occupation, then I like to offer my sincere apology.) M. K. Shen From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Fri Dec 11 11:13:10 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:13:10 +0800 Subject: 2nd reposting of a response to Enzo Michelangeli (on crypto archives) Message-ID: <36715D15.D0C67C2D@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Note: There was some technical problem since yesterday to cypherpunks postings, so that my posts to the list didn't result in copies back to me. This morning I reposted these, again without success. An hour ago Igor Chudov informed me that the problem was solved and I have just verified this with a test message. I am therefore reposting once again one of my posts of yesterday here (not exactly identical to the original, being reconstructed from memory). It is a response to Enzo Michelangeli. Please ignore it if you have already seen it. Enzo Michelangeli wrote: > It would be helpful if the list included the approximate size in Mb of each > archive. I'm making arrangements for some mirrors here in Hong Kong, and I > need an estimate of the space needed. I don't know. But a number of years ago I accessed some archive sites of software for processing of Asian languages. From that and the fact that modern disks have become much bigger in capacity and cheaper, I suppose that storage shouldn't be a bottleneck. I like to take the opportunity to mention a non-trivial issue that happens to have refreshed my attention by a reader's letter in a computer journal, namely that software at public archives could be infected by virus. I suppose one should give this potential risk some consideration, since in the present context there could be some third party particularly interested in disrupting the goals of crypto archives. Another point I like to raise is what to archive, i.e. whether only program texts (which are small) or also executable files, and how to let the archive contents be up-to-date. Related to this is whether the archive owner has to fetch everything himself or there is also a directory for uploading by contributors (this is the case with the archives I mentioned above and is sensible for new software and for updates.) M. K. Shen From brownrk1 at texaco.com Fri Dec 11 11:14:58 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:14:58 +0800 Subject: Mornington Crescent Explained (was RE: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F861B@MSX11002> > Ben[SMTP:ben at edelweb.fr] wrote, in reply to me replying to Richard Bragg: > >> > Ever played Mornington Crescent? Try the same thing with >> > e-mail. The idea is that only those in the game know "the rules". >> > These rules can change at any time in any way and all >> > "real players" can tell about the new "rules" and adjust accordingly. >> >> showing of course that he either doesn't know the *real* rules of >> Mornington Crescent or else (more likely) doesn't want to reveal them! Oh, >> and this posting quite clearly wins this round - even with the new DLR >> extensions and the Elverson Road footbridge:-) >Ok Ken--you didn't get 'Soccer Moms', now us Yanks don't get 'Mornington >Crescent'. You want to explain to the list? Well, you *did* ask. Don't blame me. It is summed up well at: http://vortex.hawo.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~asheiduk/pgg/06S/06S008.html or, more prosaically, at: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6270/ed_morning.htm Straight from the horse's mouth: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_79000/79273.stm A transcript of an actual game can be found at: http://www.lazarus.demon.co.uk/mc/mc100.html - he also has many other links at: http://www.lazarus.demon.co.uk/mc/mc.html The Encyclopaedia Morningtonia has more detail than anyone in their right brain would want to know about the game at: http://aurora.york.ac.uk/mc_em.html Here are the rules of a slightly different game that Richard may have been thinking of: http://members.xoom.com/mornomic/ruleset.html and http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~c94kd/mornomic/ruleset.txt Ken From mikeg at soonernet.com Fri Dec 11 12:00:47 1998 From: mikeg at soonernet.com (Mike Gorsuch) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:00:47 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem Message-ID: Hey guys, I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I have become very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting individual files. I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how to give Linux the support. Well, first I had to get the source for an older kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I was supposed to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source will not take the patch right. If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: 1) What source version of mount do I need to use? 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." Mike Gorsuch aka Wulfgang ICQ UIN 670820 email: mikeg at soonernet.com Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 11 13:00:10 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 05:00:10 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812111945.NAA16936@manifold.algebra.com> Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or the mount program. igor Mike Gorsuch wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I have become > very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting > individual files. I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how > to give Linux the support. Well, first I had to get the source for an older > kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I was > supposed to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source will > not take the patch right. > > If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: > > 1) What source version of mount do I need to use? > > 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." > > Mike Gorsuch > aka Wulfgang > ICQ UIN 670820 > email: mikeg at soonernet.com > Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - Igor. From cust.service at orca.aladdinsys.com Fri Dec 11 14:07:06 1998 From: cust.service at orca.aladdinsys.com (Aladdin Customer Service) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:07:06 +0800 Subject: Thank you for downloading DropStuff Message-ID: <199812112113.NAA14027@opal.he.net> Dear Cypher Punks, Thank you for downloading Aladdin DropStuff with Expander Enhancer 4.5. (If you had any problems downloading the software, please contact Aladdin Customer Service by sending an email to service at aladdinsys.com.) As you know, DropStuff is shareware, and you may try the software out for up to 15 days with no obligation. After that, please register DropStuff 4.5 by using our onlineregistration form, available on the Aladdin web site at: http://www.aladdinsys.com/store/ At Aladdin, we believe in maintaining a close relationship with our customers. What you think about us and our products is important to us. From time to time, we send out surveys about Aladdin, our products and service as a means of improving your experience with us. We hope that you will take a few minutes to respond to these surveys. When you become a registered user of DropStuff 4.5, you'll be entitled to special value offers on Aladdin products, we'll notify you of upgrades, special updates and events and provide you the excellent technical support for which we're famous. We hope you enjoy using your new copy of DropStuff with Expander Enhancer 4.5. Thank you, Marty McGillivray Product Manager The StuffIt Family of Products Aladdin Systems, Inc. From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Fri Dec 11 14:19:21 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:19:21 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates Message-ID: <19981211174713.26279.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Deep. . .mad deep. I completely agree, does anyone know of any such laws regarding e-mail? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 iQA/AwUBNnFaV1MQ9C083U98EQIkFwCcDqbpZqgR0wehfhGufe8Rqzr8ZKcAoNH8 xVqePuZTtRuBALc2NSfiM3BS =kkN5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote: > > If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised > regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and > simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's > understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it > in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same > note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for > tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws > should apply to email. > > ____________________________________________________ > Jamie R. Wilson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler at usachoice.com] > Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56 > To: Mbishop645 at aol.com > Cc: maven at weirdness.com; hab at gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: Re: > > > > > Mbishop645 at aol.com wrote: > > > > >HaB wrote: > > > > > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > > >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > > >> electronic equivalent of one?" > > >> > > >> balance. > > > > > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? > > >One word: postcard. > > > > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other > > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? > > No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the > chance for it to fall off. > > There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of > security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside > an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the > envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to > have it go by without much notice. > > It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do > with what amounts to postcard security. > > What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be > willing to do something extra for that security? > > This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the > person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to > understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are > willing to take. > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 14:47:11 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:47:11 +0800 Subject: Welcome to Netcenter Message-ID: <199812112147.NAA04962@ureg1.netscape.com> Dear Monica Lewinsky, Welcome to NETSCAPE NETCENTER, where you can access all the Internet services you need in one convenient location. With your FREE enrollment in Netscape Netcenter, you're joining millions of others who've already discovered the Internet's best resource for software, content, commerce, and community. YOUR FREE EMAIL ACCOUNT ************************************************** As a bonus, we have automatically reserved for you your own private Netscape WebMail account: cpunksusa at netscape.net Netscape WebMail accounts, provided free to all Netcenter members, are accessible from any computer with internet access. You can activate your WebMail account here: http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail/index.html IMPORTANT MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION ************************************************** Each time you visit us at Netscape Netcenter, you will enter your user name and password. Our records now indicate: Your User Name is: cpunksusa Please keep this information for future reference. BEST OF THE NET ************************************************** With your Netscape Netcenter membership, you'll be able to take advantage of a broad variety of business and consumer channels like news, sports and personal finance; outstanding products from leading companies such as Music Boulevard, Travelocity, Amazon.com, and FTD; and integrated services like personalization to give you the information you want, when you want it. And, there's more! We'll send you a periodic email newsletter featuring all the latest information on the specials, services and products available to you. It will keep you informed of the frequent updates and new services being added to Netcenter. Thank you for becoming a member of Netscape Netcenter, your home on the Net. The Netcenter Team http://home.netscape.com/netcenter NETSCAPE NETCENTER ************************************************** Netsearch: http://home.netscape.com/escapes/search/netsearch_0.html WebMail: http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail/index.html Personalize: http://my.netscape.com/index.html Member Directory: http://home.netscape.com/memberdirectory ************************************************** Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy. This welcome letter is a one-time only mailing. If you would like to subscribe or unsubscribe to other Netscape or partner mailings, please visit our In-Box Direct service. http://form.netscape.com/ibd/cgi-bin/ibd-x.cgi Copyright (c) 1998. Netscape Communications Corporation. All rights reserved From jwilso37 at visteonet.com Fri Dec 11 14:51:47 1998 From: jwilso37 at visteonet.com (Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:51:47 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates Message-ID: <199812112135.QAA13074@mailfw2.ford.com> Back to a previous question: how do we get the public to understand the concept of an "electronic envelope", the ACLU has created a PDF file that prints to a brochure format explaining encryption on a level that even the novice of users can understand. It is available at http://www.aclu.org/action/tools/crypto.pdf. ____________________________________________________ Jamie R. Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Joel O'Connor [mailto:ogrenivek at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, 11 December, 1998 12:47 To: Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: RE: Postcard Debates Deep. . .mad deep. I completely agree, does anyone know of any such laws regarding e-mail? ---"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote: > > If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised > regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and > simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's > understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it > in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same > note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for > tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws > should apply to email. > > ____________________________________________________ > Jamie R. Wilson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler at usachoice.com] > Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56 > To: Mbishop645 at aol.com > Cc: maven at weirdness.com; hab at gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: Re: > > > > > Mbishop645 at aol.com wrote: > > > > >HaB wrote: > > > > > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > > >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > > >> electronic equivalent of one?" > > >> > > >> balance. > > > > > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? > > >One word: postcard. > > > > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other > > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? > > No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the > chance for it to fall off. > > There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of > security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside > an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the > envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to > have it go by without much notice. > > It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do > with what amounts to postcard security. > > What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be > willing to do something extra for that security? > > This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the > person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to > understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are > willing to take. > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From astor at guardian.no Fri Dec 11 14:53:31 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:53:31 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981211224423.A13974@lucifer.guardian.no> On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 12:41:03PM -0600, Mike Gorsuch wrote: > Hey guys, > > I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I > have become very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, > rather than encrypting individual files. I read an article in the > Linux Journal that talked about how to give Linux the support. > Well, first I had to get the source for an older kernel, 2.0.30, and > use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I was supposed > to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source > will not take the patch right. I'm maintaining the international kernel patch for Linux which aims to collect all crypto-related features for the Linux kernel in one easy patch. This patch is tracking the development version of Linux, not the stable one. The patch is available from: ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/v2.1/ The loopback modules currently supports the following ciphers: serpent (cbc), mars (cbc), rc6 (cbc), dfc (cbc), blowfish (cbc), cast-128 (ecb), and twofish (cbc). This code is changing rapidly, so if you feel uneasy about development versions of the kernel, this might not be for you until it has become a bit more stable. > If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: > > 1) What source version of mount do I need to use? > If you patch linux-2.1.131 (the latest release) with patch-int-2.1.131.1.gz you can look in the Documentation/crypto directory for some mount-patches. However I intend to make a newer patch with support for more of the cipher algorithms - and against the latest util-linux. > 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? > If you want to use the stable kernel, you can look at ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/net-source/loop/ for a collection of loop-crypto patches against 2.0.x. You can also look into tcfs available at ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/net-source/tcfs/ This is basically crypto-support for NFS which is more integrated than CFS (the T in TCFS stands for 'transparent'). astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From astor at guardian.no Fri Dec 11 14:54:11 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:54:11 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981211225004.B13974@lucifer.guardian.no> On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:04:00PM +0100, Ulf M�ller wrote: > > 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software > remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such > as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its > further dissemination". I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the department for foreign affairs in Norway. The response (no surprise) was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement calls "public domain" software. astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From mikeg at soonernet.com Fri Dec 11 14:55:33 1998 From: mikeg at soonernet.com (Mike Gorsuch) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:55:33 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: <199812111945.NAA16936@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: Thanks! I appreciate the quick response. Where can I get CFS? Mike On 11-Dec-98 Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or > the mount program. > > igor > > Mike Gorsuch wrote: >> >> >> Hey guys, >> >> I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I have become >> very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than >> encrypting >> individual files. I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about >> how >> to give Linux the support. Well, first I had to get the source for an older >> kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I >> was >> supposed to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source >> will >> not take the patch right. >> >> If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: >> >> 1) What source version of mount do I need to use? >> >> 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? >> >> Mike >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." >> >> Mike Gorsuch >> aka Wulfgang >> ICQ UIN 670820 >> email: mikeg at soonernet.com >> Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> > > > > - Igor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." Mike Gorsuch aka Wulfgang ICQ UIN 670820 email: mikeg at soonernet.com Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 15:08:42 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:08:42 +0800 Subject: Your Postal Code Message-ID: <199812112139.NAA08898@ureg3.netscape.com> Dear Monica Lewinsky, You have received this email because you had requested Netcenter to mail you the postalcode used in your Netcenter registration. We have your postalcode as: "90024" You can use this postal code to obtain your password or username. If it is not your correct postal code, please update it (and any other out-of-date information) in the Netcenter Member Center. Thanks, Netcenter Registration From ichudov at Algebra.COM Fri Dec 11 15:13:11 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:13:11 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812112154.PAA19547@manifold.algebra.com> Ask Matt Blaze, cfs at research.att.com igor Mike Gorsuch wrote: > > Thanks! I appreciate the quick response. Where can I get CFS? > > Mike > > On 11-Dec-98 Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or > > the mount program. > > > > igor > > > > Mike Gorsuch wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hey guys, > >> > >> I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I have become > >> very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than > >> encrypting > >> individual files. I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about > >> how > >> to give Linux the support. Well, first I had to get the source for an older > >> kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I > >> was > >> supposed to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source > >> will > >> not take the patch right. > >> > >> If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: > >> > >> 1) What source version of mount do I need to use? > >> > >> 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." > >> > >> Mike Gorsuch > >> aka Wulfgang > >> ICQ UIN 670820 > >> email: mikeg at soonernet.com > >> Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> - > >> > > > > > > > > - Igor. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." > > Mike Gorsuch > aka Wulfgang > ICQ UIN 670820 > email: mikeg at soonernet.com > Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - Igor. From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 15:16:43 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:16:43 +0800 Subject: Netcenter member information Message-ID: <199812112143.NAA07661@ureg2.netscape.com> Dear Monica Lewinsky, You have received this email because you had requested a new Netcenter password. In order to protect your account, we urge you to change your password after you login using the password specified below. username=cpunksusa password=bluefire433 To change your password, visit the Netcenter Member Center at the following location: http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/membercenter.html You may be asked to sign in, and then to log in using the password above. Then just click on the "password" link in the left column, and follow the instructions to change your password. When you're done, click the "update" button, and you can start using your new password right away. Thanks, Netcenter Registration From weidai at eskimo.com Fri Dec 11 15:18:34 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:18:34 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <199812060008.AAA27126@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <19981211135656.A13424@eskimo.com> On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 02:27:10AM -0800, bill.stewart at pobox.com wrote: > It still doesn't solve the fundamental problem with the b-money idea, > which is that there's no reason anybody should want to accept it, > any more than they should want to accept dead-president fiat paper money. > It fixes some symptoms of fiat money, but not the fundamental problem, > because it's still fiat money, just with mathematically interesting > artwork printed on the front. This argument is based on the misconception that people have no reason to want to accept fiat money. But actually fiat money is valuable because it performs a service for those who use it, namely the service of a medium of exchange. It's value derives from the fact that there is positive demand for a medium of exchange, and the fact that its supply is finite and controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency. Think about it this way. In the case of commodity money, its value comes partly from the industrial/aesthetic value of the commodity and partly from the usefulness of the commodity money as a medium of exchange. In the case of fiat money and b-money, all of its value comes from its usefulness as a medium of exchange. From howree at cable.navy.mil Fri Dec 11 15:31:04 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:31:04 +0800 Subject: PGP Inc has gone to the dogs In-Reply-To: <199810180916.KAA24934@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981212031015.00a74d90@205.83.192.13> Cleaning out the dross, I found this. What was "broken" in pgp50? Reeza! At 10:16 AM 10/18/98 +0100, Adam Back wrote: > >PGP Inc has taken leave of it's sense. Masses of untrue claims on web >pages (take a look at examples below), no RSA support, no unix >versions (other than old broken pgp50). From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 15:34:28 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:34:28 +0800 Subject: NETCENTER uid=cpunksusa key=cnO6Eb3peBen CONFIRM! Message-ID: <199812112143.NAA09119@ureg3.netscape.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iang at systemics.com Fri Dec 11 15:40:48 1998 From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:40:48 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <19981211135656.A13424@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <199812112248.SAA21792@systemics.com> > This argument is based on the misconception that people have no reason to > want to accept fiat money. But actually fiat money is valuable because it > performs a service for those who use it, namely the service of a medium of > exchange. It's value derives from the fact that there is positive demand > for a medium of exchange, and the fact that its supply is finite and > controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency. It is true that there is positive demand for a medium of exchange. It is not true that fiat money is controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency, and it is patently not true that there is a finite supply. National monies are in effect, and in demand, because they are mandated by a number of methods. The us$ was made the dominant form by punitive taxation of alternates in the late 1900s. Other countries like the UK managed to destroy competitors, and in the course of this, bankrupt honest note issuers, by subjecting the note issuers to The notion that the current issuer of that money is benevolent is easily tested by circulating alternate monies. Any casino in the US will tell you that the reason they won't permit their chips to go outside is because the feds have quiet words with them. Disregarding journalistic fairy tales like Hiawatha Hours (or whatever they were called), pretty universally, you run the risk of being locked up if you circulate something called money. Of course, the Internet has changed all this. But not as much as you'd think, I'd lay 10 to 1 that if you started an issuer of Internet money on the wrong side of the German border you'd be finding out what bored prison guards talk about. The Federal Reserve of the US has said fairly plainly that you can do this. But the ABA, FinCen, the FBI, the DEA, and any other moralistic department of the US government that wants to get in the act are going to be looking at this with jaundiced eyes. The value of any monopolistic product can be simplistically stated to be driven by supply and demand, but the truth is different. Only when there is free issue of money will we know if a government can compete against the best and brightest of the profit minded world. In the past, the answer was a resounding No, as otherwise, governments would not have had to resort to legislation, taxes and other arbitrary punishments in order to win the field. > Think about it this way. In the case of commodity money, its value comes > partly from the industrial/aesthetic value of the commodity and partly > from the usefulness of the commodity money as a medium of exchange. In the > case of fiat money and b-money, all of its value comes from its usefulness > as a medium of exchange. And a government enforced monopoly. The value of that is calculated at the seignorage, assuming that we agree that no government could compete on fair grounds. That makes the US monopoly worth $25 Bn per annum. iang From jdb at layer8.net Fri Dec 11 15:53:06 1998 From: jdb at layer8.net (joel boutros) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:53:06 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981211150128.A9434@layer8.net> On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 01:45:55PM -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or > the mount program. CFS encrypts files and directory names individually, rather than filesystems as a whole, allowing the user to infer directory structure by examining the encrypted store. It also does really badly if you expect to use it with more than one user. In addition, the documentation (last I looked) pretty clearly says not to use it in a multiuser environment. TCFS makes extensions upon CFS. I don't know how well it does, though, or whether it fixes the problems listed above. I've only heard it described in the context of a suggested alternative. There are apparently several others, whose names I don't know, unfortunately. I've not looked at them. - joel "No real content, just a comment or two" > > igor > > Mike Gorsuch wrote: > > > > > > Hey guys, > > > > I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I have become > > very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting > > individual files. I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how > > to give Linux the support. Well, first I had to get the source for an older > > kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I was > > supposed to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source will > > not take the patch right. > > > > If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: > > > > 1) What source version of mount do I need to use? > > > > 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? > > > > Mike > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..." > > > > Mike Gorsuch > > aka Wulfgang > > ICQ UIN 670820 > > email: mikeg at soonernet.com > > Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > - Igor. From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 16:09:55 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:09:55 +0800 Subject: Netcenter member information Message-ID: <199812112304.PAA13597@ureg3.netscape.com> Dear Monica Lewinsky, You have received this email because you had requested a new Netcenter password. In order to protect your account, we urge you to change your password after you login using the password specified below. username=cpunksusa password=shyfire551 To change your password, visit the Netcenter Member Center at the following location: http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/membercenter.html You may be asked to sign in, and then to log in using the password above. Then just click on the "password" link in the left column, and follow the instructions to change your password. When you're done, click the "update" button, and you can start using your new password right away. Thanks, Netcenter Registration From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Dec 11 16:18:52 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:18:52 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) Message-ID: <199812112328.RAA31629@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:50:04 +0100 > From: Alexander Kjeldaas > Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar > I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the > department for foreign affairs in Norway. The response (no surprise) > was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement > calls "public domain" software. Actualy that is surprising since Open Sourse does not imply the loss of rights by the author as public domain does. If this is so and Germany interprets Open Source in this way then the OS movement will fail in Germany (at least). There will be no motive for authors to release their work since they will be in effect releasing all rights to it, not the goal of OS at all. The impact on this for closed source derivitive products is also of some interest. I wonder what RMS will have to say on that one... ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 11 16:19:15 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:19:15 +0800 Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah at pop.sneaker.net Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:59:16 -0500 To: Digital Bearer Settlement List From: Robert Hettinga Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ While we're at it... Cheers, Robert Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:19:31 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU Hayek Quote of the Week " .. history is largely a history of inflation, and usually of inflations engineered by governments and for the gain of governments .. " F. A. Hayek, _Denationalisation of Money: The Argument Refined_ (third edition) London: Institute of Economic Affairs. 1990. p. 34 Hayek Quote of the Week is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. >> END << --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 16:41:34 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:41:34 +0800 Subject: NETCENTER uid=cpunksusa key=cnO6Eb3peBen CONFIRM! Message-ID: <199812112324.PAA14737@ureg3.netscape.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available URL: From netcenter-reg at netscape.com Fri Dec 11 16:55:23 1998 From: netcenter-reg at netscape.com (Netcenter Registration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:55:23 +0800 Subject: Welcome to Netcenter Message-ID: <199812112325.PAA14865@ureg3.netscape.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2321 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rwenzler at usachoice.com Fri Dec 11 16:57:26 1998 From: rwenzler at usachoice.com (Robert Wenzler) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:57:26 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates In-Reply-To: <199812111341.IAA15146@mailfw1.ford.com> Message-ID: <3671B447.16498817@usachoice.com> "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote: > > If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised > regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and > simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's > understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it > in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same > note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for > tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws > should apply to email. Right. If everyone used encryption, there would not as much public debate about it. For now, it is not commonly used and viewed as secrative. Now for a general question to all that may read this: How much are you willing to do something to change the laws? However much people are willing to stick up for this issue is the amount things could change. From tcmay at got.net Fri Dec 11 17:14:57 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:14:57 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981211022710.008c0100@idiom.com> Message-ID: At 1:56 PM -0800 12/11/98, Wei Dai wrote: ... > >This argument is based on the misconception that people have no reason to >want to accept fiat money. But actually fiat money is valuable because it >performs a service for those who use it, namely the service of a medium of >exchange. It's value derives from the fact that there is positive demand >for a medium of exchange, and the fact that its supply is finite and >controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency. > >Think about it this way. In the case of commodity money, its value comes >partly from the industrial/aesthetic value of the commodity and partly >from the usefulness of the commodity money as a medium of exchange. In the >case of fiat money and b-money, all of its value comes from its usefulness >as a medium of exchange. I believe _all_ forms of money, whether hard, fiat, whatever, come from the expectation that the money will be of the same value, more or less, in the future. Call it the "greater fool theory of money." All one cares about is that a greater fool will take the money. Whether the money is gold or funny bank notes or e-money, the Bayesian expectation of future value is what matters. Discounted appropriately for interest paid, etc. (Thus, one might be willing to be paid in gold coins or in E-Bay LEAPs, provided the terms were laid-out and could be calculated.) As always, reputation is critical. Repution = Belief = Expectation. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From weidai at eskimo.com Fri Dec 11 17:37:58 1998 From: weidai at eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:37:58 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <19981211135656.A13424@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <19981211162940.C22476@eskimo.com> On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 06:48:05PM -0400, Ian Grigg wrote: > It is true that there is positive demand for a medium of > exchange. > > It is not true that fiat money is controlled by a > sufficiently benevolent agency, and it is patently > not true that there is a finite supply. What I meant is that the current supply of money (i.e. the total amount of money in circulation) is finite, not that it can't increase in the future. And by sufficiently benevolent, I mean people do not expect the government to print so much money that it becomes totally worthless, at least not in the short term. I'm not trying to defend fiat money. After all I proposed b-money as an alternative exactly because fiat money does have serious problems. But having no reason for people to accept it is not one of them. From measl at mfn.org Fri Dec 11 18:12:06 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:12:06 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar Discussion... Message-ID: I thought the list might be interested to know that we have in fact had "more than a few" angry emails about being down on the 14th: hit-em where it hurts, and they *have* to listen, huh? For the most part, the response has been favorable, *after* they have been educated as to what is going on. These are the same people who, by and large, could care less about the average "political thing"... As I said before, I acknowledge that this "strike" takes out it's energy on those least responsible (directly, anyway), but it *does* seem to wake them up, since it directly involves them [now]... Anyone else having similar experiences? (I'm really curious about openpgp.net) Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rwenzler at usachoice.com Fri Dec 11 19:05:46 1998 From: rwenzler at usachoice.com (Robert Wenzler) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:05:46 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates In-Reply-To: <199812112135.QAA13074@mailfw2.ford.com> Message-ID: <3671C566.58034F05@usachoice.com> "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote: > > Back to a previous question: how do we get the public to understand the > concept of an "electronic envelope", the ACLU has created a PDF file that > prints to a brochure format explaining encryption on a level that even the > novice of users can understand. It is available at > http://www.aclu.org/action/tools/crypto.pdf. Getting that concept across is a slow process. People will want to stay with what they are familiar with. Right now, I do not know how to familiarize people to accept an electronic envelope. From whgiii at openpgp.net Fri Dec 11 19:06:25 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:06:25 +0800 Subject: PGP Inc has gone to the dogs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981212031015.00a74d90@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <199812120127.UAA005.88@whgiii> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In <3.0.5.32.19981212031015.00a74d90 at 205.83.192.13>, on 12/12/98 at 03:10 AM, Reeza! said: >Cleaning out the dross, I found this. >What was "broken" in pgp50? In doing my port of 5.0 to OS/2 I found and patched a couple of minor bugs in pgp, none of them security related. I don't know what Adam is refering to as "broken" except perhaps the change in the commandline so 5.0 doesn't work with 2.6.x scripts & plugins. >At 10:16 AM 10/18/98 +0100, Adam Back wrote: >> >>PGP Inc has taken leave of it's sense. Masses of untrue claims on web >>pages (take a look at examples below), no RSA support, no unix >>versions (other than old broken pgp50). - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 Charset: cp850 wj8DBQE2cbiMlHpjA6A1ypsRApwYAJ9/JOVfvaFqCWH4z9pE8ntBQyn3qwCgj7Uo GzSrbEYZoWwbGM1u2zJSwHY= =s57Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From howree at cable.navy.mil Fri Dec 11 20:01:01 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:01:01 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates In-Reply-To: <199812111341.IAA15146@mailfw1.ford.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981212115057.00a85560@205.83.192.13> This would open the door for the USPS to charge for each email sent. The same rules? No. Based on those rules, but not the same rules. The same rules would slow email down considerably also, wouldn't they??? Reeza! At 08:41 AM 12/11/98 -0500, Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) wrote: >If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised >regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and >simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's >understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it >in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same >note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for >tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws >should apply to email. > >____________________________________________________ >Jamie R. Wilson > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler at usachoice.com] >Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56 >To: Mbishop645 at aol.com >Cc: maven at weirdness.com; hab at gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks at toad.com >Subject: Re: > > > > >Mbishop645 at aol.com wrote: >> >> >HaB wrote: >> > >> >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to >> >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the >> >> electronic equivalent of one?" >> >> >> >> balance. >> > >> >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? >> >One word: postcard. >> >> Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other >> than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? > >No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the >chance for it to fall off. > >There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of >security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside >an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the >envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to >have it go by without much notice. > >It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do >with what amounts to postcard security. > >What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be >willing to do something extra for that security? > >This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the >person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to >understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are >willing to take. > > > From howree at cable.navy.mil Fri Dec 11 20:11:45 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:11:45 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates In-Reply-To: <199812112135.QAA13074@mailfw2.ford.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981212122138.00a8ccf0@205.83.192.13> At 08:22 PM 12/11/98 -0500, Robert Wenzler wrote: > > >"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote: >> >> Back to a previous question: how do we get the public to understand the >> concept of an "electronic envelope", the ACLU has created a PDF file that >> prints to a brochure format explaining encryption on a level that even the >> novice of users can understand. It is available at >> http://www.aclu.org/action/tools/crypto.pdf. > >Getting that concept across is a slow process. People will want to >stay with what they are familiar with. Right now, I do not know how >to familiarize people to accept an electronic envelope. > I think the paper letter/envelope analogy is perfectly adequate, and easily understandable. The difficulty will be with the additional layer that must be completed. If one of my sisters is representative of anything, it _will_ be a long, hard uphill climb. A plugin for the gui interface that defaults to encryption for recognized e-addy's would simplify, and enhance this effort. Reeza! DH Key available on request "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, just the way the President did." --Tim May From alan at clueserver.org Fri Dec 11 21:45:09 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:45:09 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981211211036.03ec7dd0@clueserver.org> At 12:41 PM 12/11/98 -0600, Mike Gorsuch wrote: > >Hey guys, > >I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction. I have become >very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting >individual files. I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how >to give Linux the support. Well, first I had to get the source for an older >kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches. It patched and compiled fine. Next I was >supposed to patch mount. The problem I am facing is that the mount source will >not take the patch right. > >If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy: > >1) What source version of mount do I need to use? > >2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support? There is a set of Kernel patches at ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/linux/kerneli/v2.1/ . Look for the patch-int files. Note: I have not been able to get these to compile cleanly. It may take some work to get them to work right. (I know of at least one typo in devices/block/loop_gen.c that prevents it from compiling on the patch for 2.1.131.) --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu Fri Dec 11 22:04:49 1998 From: jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu (Ken Williams) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:04:49 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981212115057.00a85560@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote: >> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:50:57 +1000 >> From: Reeza! >> To: "cypherpunks at toad.com" >> Subject: RE: Postcard Debates >> >> This would open the door for the USPS to charge for each email sent. >> The same rules? No. Based on those rules, but not the same rules. >> The same rules would slow email down considerably also, wouldn't they??? >> >> Reeza! Funny you should mention the USPS and email. I was browsing through the latest issue of PC WEEK (12-07-98), and noticed the following paragraph in Spencer Katt's column "Rumor Central" on page 178 - "A self-proclaimed 'project mis-manager' was chatting with a buddy who's done some development work for the U.S. Postal Service. His pal was talking about a new project in which the USPS will accept electronic documents, merge them with a mailing list, print them at the post office branch closest to the destination of each document's recipient and deliver them for less than the price of a snail mail stamp. The kicker: Microsoft is considering an add-in that will put a USPS 'Mail' button in Office 2000 for directly linking to the service." it's pure evil. Regards, Ken Williams Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 12 00:23:10 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:23:10 +0800 Subject: Postcard Debates Message-ID: <199812120801.JAA05848@replay.com> postcard not private? nobody reads them? just this last week click and clack (you know, the car guys on NPR) received a $20 bill in the mail. no envelope - just a $20 bill with a stamp and their address written on the face. amazing but true. source: http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Show/RAfiles/9849/s07.ram - real audio required. EnvelopeMonger From jf_avon at citenet.net Sat Dec 12 16:50:32 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:50:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: 'Martial law' rushed for Y2K chaos Message-ID: <199812130055.TAA09162@cti06.citenet.net> LOCAL Saturday 12 December 1998 'Martial law' rushed for Y2K chaos Report warns government to be ready to invoke federal Emergencies Act By David Pugliese The Ottawa Citizen The federal government should consider invoking the Emergencies Act, the successor to the War Measures Act, if the millennium bug causes widespread chaos, according to newly obtained government documents. The report, by the Year 2000 contingency planning group of Emergency Preparedness Canada, calls for orders and regulations for the Emergencies Act to be ready by the end of March. "In the worst case, we should consider the Emergencies Act a potential source of special powers," urge documents prepared by government in July and August and obtained by the Citizen under the Access to Information Act. "Among the activities that must be done to meet the problems resulting from Y2000 failures is development of relevant emergency orders and regulations required for the invocation of emergency provisions under the Emergencies Act." Federal departments are to identify what emergency orders would be needed in their areas of responsibility to deal with a countrywide disaster caused by the millennium bug. Those orders and regulations should have been in place in 1988 -- when the Emergencies Act was brought in to replace the War Measures Act -- but federal departments failed to develop them. While the lack of emergency orders and regulations among federal departments would not have prevented the Emergencies Act from being invoked, it would have meant that any federal response to a large-scale crisis would not have run smoothly. Defence Minister Art Eggleton, who is in charge of Emergency Preparedness Canada, will also be issued with a step-by-step guidebook on actions to be taken in a "major or catastrophic emergency" caused by the millennium bug, according to the report. That book will include all the documents needed and the names of provincial officials who should be consulted before the federal government invokes the Emergencies Act. The War Measures Act was last invoked by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau on Oct. 16, 1970, to deal with the FLQ terrorist threat -- the first and only peacetime implementation of such sweeping powers. The Front de Liberation du Quebec had kidnapped British diplomat James Cross, who was later released, and Liberal cabinet minister Pierre Laporte, who was slain. During the crisis, Canadian troops were ordered to protect public figures, and 497 possible suspects were arbitrarily rounded up and arrested in an attempt to break the FLQ cell structure. Defence spokesman Maj. John Blakeley said the process now being put in place is simply part of prudent planning to deal with the millennium bug and does not automatically mean the Emergencies Act will be enacted. "The question of whether it will be required or not is one that will have to be determined at the time," Maj. Blakeley said. "Basically, this is saying, 'If it gets to that stage, is everything ready?' " Maj. Blakeley said all scenarios have to be considered, including the most unlikely one: widespread major problems caused by the millennium bug. He added that the Defence department is confident it will be ready to handle any emergencies associated with the computer glitch. But the Auditor General has continually warned that the federal government is lacking in its emergency response capabilities. Among the criticisms over the years: - In 1997, the Auditor General voiced concern that not enough was being done to deal with an emergency caused by a major oil or chemical spill; - In 1992, the Auditor General repeated warnings that the government had still not created an emergency program to deal with an earthquake. The Auditor General's office says those plans are still undeveloped. - In 1989, the Auditor General pointed out that the emergency orders and measures needed by federal departments for the Emergencies Act had not been mapped out. Nine years later, that remains the case. Jim Hanson, a defence analyst and retired Canadian Army brigadier general, said the Emergencies Act contains the same sweeping powers to deal with unrest and civil emergencies. But he said it is likely such measures are intended more to give powers to civilian agencies, such as police forces, in case there are problems from the millennium bug. "It wouldn't take much under the existing National Defence Act or the 'aid to civil powers' provisions to put military personnel on the streets." Some computer analysts believe the millennium bug, also known as the Year 2000 or Y2K problem, will cause only minor disruptions. But others predict it will trigger widespread disruptions in computers that control everything from hydro and financial systems to air-traffic control. The problem centres on the fact that the internal counters of computers will read the year 2000 simply as 00. That could cause them to crash as they misread the 00 for the year 1900. Several months ago the Canadian Forces were told to prepare for the biggest peacetime deployment of troops ever in case computer failures caused by the Year 2000 problem disrupted key services. The plan, dubbed Operation Abacus, also involves the development of rules governing the use of force by soldiers in case they are called upon to assist police in dealing with emergency incidents. The reports obtained by the Citizen predict the first wave of computer failures could hit Canada on Sept. 9, 1999, because systems might have problems handling that date sequence, which is 9-9-99. The Defence department will activate a national co-ordination centre to handle emergency response to the millennium bug the day before that date, according to the documents. As part of its preparations, the national co-ordination centre will also run several exercises to test military readiness. In April, federal and provincial agencies in Quebec and Ontario will conduct a three-day training scenario involving a nuclear emergency -- a major test and evaluation of how the federal government and provinces can respond to a large-scale emergency that might result from the millennium bug, according to the Access documents. In the reports, military officials also raise concern that their ability to help out if the millennium bug causes widespread problems relies heavily on Canada's electrical, transportation, food and water and sewage systems having their own Year 2000 problems under control: "The ability of the (Canadian Forces) to provide civil assistance is highly dependent on the state of preparedness of these infrastructure items since the CF, like everyone else, is highly dependent on smooth delivery of these supplies and services," the documents state. "Without aggressive action in these industrial and service sectors, the (Canadian Forces) may not be able to make a significant impact across the nation as a force of last resort." Military officials point out that more than 16,000 troops were needed to deal with the effects of the ice storm that hit Ontario and Quebec this year. But the millennium bug, the report states, "has the potential of creating a demand orders of magnitude greater than this, which are well beyond the CF's capability to respond." Defence officials called for "aggressive and preventive actions" now to reduce the Year 2000 risk to a more manageable level. The military will have about 32,000 of its personnel dedicated to Operation Abacus, with thousands more available if needed. In November, the Commons Public Accounts committee questioned whether the Canadian Forces would be able to deal with countrywide problems that might be caused by the millennium bug. But several weeks later, a report by Auditor General Denis Desautels found that the critical systems the Defence department needs should computer foul-ups create civil chaos are largely ready. These included systems that support the movement of troops and supplies and handling of communications. Copyright 1998 Ottawa Citizen From info at save-net.com Sat Dec 12 01:07:13 1998 From: info at save-net.com (info at save-net.com) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:07:13 +0800 Subject: ADV: Save Up To 50% on International Calling Message-ID: <199812120857.CAA00327@einstein.ssz.com> Message sent by: ITC Int'l Callback, 25 Tarhelia Lane, Whittier, NC 28789, 1-828-497-6282. To be removed, click reply with "remove" in the subject. Save Up To 50% on International Calling .. for residents inside AND outside the USA. 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If you have received this message in error, reply with the word unsubscribe in the subject. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From GregShow2 at aol.com Sat Dec 12 20:15:27 1998 From: GregShow2 at aol.com (GregShow2 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:15:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Question About "C" programming Message-ID: <9783faa1.36733e96@aol.com> Could you please send me more information on this language. From astor at guardian.no Sat Dec 12 07:17:52 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:17:52 +0800 Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981212154326.B30941@lucifer.guardian.no> On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 09:10:36PM -0800, Alan Olsen wrote: > > Note: I have not been able to get these to compile cleanly. It may take > some work to get them to work right. (I know of at least one typo in > devices/block/loop_gen.c that prevents it from compiling on the patch for > 2.1.131.) 2.1.131.1 is broken. 2.1.131.3 should compile. astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From apf2 at apf2.com Sat Dec 12 07:21:13 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:21:13 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981212153310.006dc6bc@209.204.247.83> I think the key idea which allows Open Source to be exempted is based on the availability to all eyes of the technology--not the legal rights attached to the software. The fact that the knowledge contained in Open Source software is available to all is the key. The legal right to use that knowledge is not quite the issue. If the knowledge in the software becomes "common knowledge" then defining its (illegal) export becomes extremely difficult. >From this point of view, I agree with the author of the original statement--this could be a very important boost for Open Source crypto. APF >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:50:04 +0100 >> From: Alexander Kjeldaas >> Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar > >> I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the >> department for foreign affairs in Norway. The response (no surprise) >> was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement >> calls "public domain" software. > >Actualy that is surprising since Open Sourse does not imply the loss of >rights by the author as public domain does. > >If this is so and Germany interprets Open Source in this way then the OS >movement will fail in Germany (at least). There will be no motive for >authors to release their work since they will be in effect releasing all >rights to it, not the goal of OS at all. The impact on this for closed source >derivitive products is also of some interest. > >I wonder what RMS will have to say on that one... > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > What raises the standard of living may well diminish the > quality of life. > > The Club of Rome > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From mib at io.com Sat Dec 12 07:45:49 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:45:49 +0800 Subject: CFS & TCFS (was Re: Linux Encrypted File System) Message-ID: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com> If you are running Red Hat Linux and want the Cryptographic File System (also available for most BSD-derived Unix systems and most current Linux releases), go to http://www.replay.com/redhat/cfs.html If you are running Linux 2.0.X and want the Transparent Cryptographic File System (improves on Matt Blaze's CFS, they say), go to http://vales.uni.net/tcfs/ - d. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Dec 12 07:54:12 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:54:12 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) Message-ID: <199812121546.JAA00764@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:33:10 +0100 > From: "Albert P. Franco, II" > Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) > I think the key idea which allows Open Source to be exempted is based on > the availability to all eyes of the technology--not the legal rights > attached to the software. > > The fact that the knowledge contained in Open Source software is available > to all is the key. The legal right to use that knowledge is not quite the > issue. If the knowledge in the software becomes "common knowledge" then > defining its (illegal) export becomes extremely difficult. The problem I see with this is that the knowledge about the crypto system doesn't come from the source but rather from the mathematics that it is founded upon. If this line of reasoning is followed to its logical conclusion then publishing a paper on the algorithm also transmits that knowledge making particular knowledge of the software (ie whether I used a do-loop instead of a if statement) rather irrelevant. Now if it's not the particulars of the implimentation that we're protecting and it's not the mathematics itself then exactly what is it that we're protecting by imposing these closed source limitations? It looks to me like an unintentional(?) attempt to put commercial closed source crypto out of business. Under these regulations doesn't it mean that any business that isn't OS faces additional hurdles in its operation? Any business that is OS faces the problem of income stream which still isn't completely worked out for OS companies. This implies a longer time to market for OS crypto products. Also, since the source of PGP has always been avaiable doesn't this now make it permissible to export without restriction? ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Sat Dec 12 08:58:00 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:58:00 +0800 Subject: Echelon, Diana, Wassenaar Message-ID: <199812121635.LAA05204@smtp0.mindspring.com> The Wash Post today has picked up the hot European story of NSA's file on Princess Diana and linked it to the NSA's Echelon program. http://jya.com/nsa-diana.htm This is the first US major media story on Echelon, and its connection to privacy invasion of a global celebrity icon may do more to get public attention for the vile program than any previous investigation and report. NSA claims Diana was not a "target" and that the 1,000 pages of data on her were gathered "incidental" to other activities. But, as with all the TLA snooping, it is this incidental surveillance of the innocent that all the calls for loosening of encrypton controls is about. After all the near-futile efforts of investigators to bring Echelon out into the open, and counterefforts of pols and spooks cloak it, the Diana hook may the "Gone With The Wind" popularizer that finally energizes a genuine borad-based opposition, and, may very well be the kickoff to global demand for encryption to protect privacy worldwide and maybe even in the US. What wonderful cloubreak to let sunshine into the dark halls of Wassenaar and FT Meade spookdoms. From sheriff at speakeasy.org Sat Dec 12 09:34:24 1998 From: sheriff at speakeasy.org (The Sheriff) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:34:24 +0800 Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com> Message-ID: >>Not only will Maximum Web Design (www.max-web.com) not be operating on >>December 14, I have plenty of bandwith for a page with all the >>participants. Would be happy to maintain it too... > >>Please e-mail me. anti-wassenaar at max-web.com > >>Only serious requests -=WITH A URL=- will be accepted. >>Will post the address to the list asap. > >The domain of openpgp.net will be down in protest on the 14th. Perhaps >someone could design a common webpage that we all could use outlining why >our sites are down. If some of y'all out there would go ahead and post some of your reasons for "striking," I'll be more than happy to air it on my web page. Try to post these to the list [ATTN: Sheriff] by the 12th, or the 13th at the latest. All such posts will be slapped up on my web page, at the URL mentioned in my sig. Cheers. Love, luck, and marijuana lollipops, The Sheriff. -- ****** --- **** New, SHORTER sig! See below! **** ********************************************************* *** Questions? *** *** Finger sheriff at speakeasy.org for RSA key and ICQ. *** *** *** *** Haven't seen my web site? *** *** http://www.speakeasy.org/~sheriff/DISCLAIMER.html *** ********************************************************* From michael at sparta.mainstream.net Sat Dec 12 10:28:40 1998 From: michael at sparta.mainstream.net (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 02:28:40 +0800 Subject: CFS & TCFS (was Re: Linux Encrypted File System) In-Reply-To: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com> Message-ID: <3672AE96.D05C639C@sparta.mainstream.net> These are just NFS servers. Do there exist any programs which actually keep the contents of the filesystem on your hard-drive encrypted? mib wrote: > > If you are running Red Hat Linux and want the Cryptographic File System (also > available for most BSD-derived Unix systems and most current Linux releases), > go to http://www.replay.com/redhat/cfs.html > > If you are running Linux 2.0.X and want the Transparent Cryptographic File > System (improves on Matt Blaze's CFS, they say), go to > http://vales.uni.net/tcfs/ > > - d. From mib at io.com Sat Dec 12 11:35:49 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:35:49 +0800 Subject: CFS & TCFS In-Reply-To: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com> Message-ID: <19981212130328.C1996@io.com> On Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 05:57:42PM +0000, Michael Hohensee wrote: > These are just NFS servers. Do there exist any programs which actually > keep the contents of the filesystem on your hard-drive encrypted? ftp://ftp.research.att.com/dist/mab/cfs.announce ... > CFS pushes encryption services into the Unix(tm) file system. It supports > secure storage at the system level through a standard Unix file system > interface to encrypted files. Users associate a cryptographic key with the > directories they wish to protect. Files in these directories (as well as > their pathname components) are transparently encrypted and decrypted with the > specified key without further user intervention; cleartext is never stored on > a disk or sent to a remote file server. CFS employs a novel combination of > DES stream and codebook cipher modes to provide high security with good > performance on a modern workstation. CFS can use any available file system > for its underlying storage without modification, including remote file > servers such as NFS. System management functions, such as file backup, work > in a normal manner and without knowledge of the key. http://vales.uni.net/tcfs/tcfs-faq.html#Q1.1 ... > Question 1.1. What is TCFS? > TCFS is a Transparent Cryptographic File System that is a suitable solution > to the problem of privacy for distributed file system. By a deeper > integration between the encryption service and the file system, it results in > a complete trasparency of use to the user applications. Files are stored in > encrypted form and are decrypted before they are read. The > encryption/decryption process takes place on the client machine and thus the > encryption/decryption key never travels on the network. - d. From whgiii at openpgp.net Sat Dec 12 11:40:20 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:40:20 +0800 Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981212153310.006dc6bc@209.204.247.83> Message-ID: <199812121828.NAA002.03@whgiii> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In <3.0.3.32.19981212153310.006dc6bc at 209.204.247.83>, on 12/12/98 at 03:33 PM, "Albert P. Franco, II" said: >I think the key idea which allows Open Source to be exempted is based on >the availability to all eyes of the technology--not the legal rights >attached to the software. >The fact that the knowledge contained in Open Source software is >available to all is the key. The legal right to use that knowledge is not >quite the issue. If the knowledge in the software becomes "common >knowledge" then defining its (illegal) export becomes extremely >difficult. I don't know about the rest of the signing nations but in the US at least there is the unresolved issue of wether source code = protected free speech under the 1st Amendment. Considering the crypto section of the agreement is up for review and a new vote in the year 2000 it may be that they are waiting to see how this issue plays out in the courts. Does anyone know what happened to the EU decision not to implement crypto restrictions despite US pressures? Does the Wassenaar signify a change in direction for the EU or do we have two different groups in Europe with conflicting policies?? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I smashed a Window and saw... OS/2. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 Charset: cp850 wj8DBQE2cqehlHpjA6A1ypsRAtyWAJ9782sKj0hRWAG6AzQRPct5U2mhGwCfTuLl w8Png1jAQmuiFWOMxKTAyWE= =r0Dm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From michael at sparta.mainstream.net Sat Dec 12 11:44:13 1998 From: michael at sparta.mainstream.net (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:44:13 +0800 Subject: CFS & TCFS In-Reply-To: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com> Message-ID: <3672C428.C2117E@sparta.mainstream.net> Ok, so that was an especially clueless question for me to have asked. Oh well. :) mib wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 05:57:42PM +0000, Michael Hohensee wrote: > > These are just NFS servers. Do there exist any programs which actually > > keep the contents of the filesystem on your hard-drive encrypted? > > ftp://ftp.research.att.com/dist/mab/cfs.announce ... From riburr at shentel.net Sat Dec 12 12:57:29 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 04:57:29 +0800 Subject: Echelon, Diana, Wassenaar In-Reply-To: <199812121635.LAA05204@smtp0.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3672CDBA.3E30C2EA@shentel.net> John Young wrote: > The Wash Post today has picked up the hot European > story of NSA's file on Princess Diana and linked it to > the NSA's Echelon program. > > This is the first US major media story on Echelon, and its > connection to privacy invasion of a global celebrity icon > may do more to get public attention for the vile program > than any previous investigation and report. The public's appetite for Echelon will be wetted when they pick up People magazine and turn to the section where celebrity exploits and indiscretions are transcripted and given a government stamp of authenticity, "NSA transcripts licensed for commercial release". Echelon is a goldmine, and more than a few people are tasked with exploring it's commercial viability. Clinton-Lewinski phone sex, Israeli intelligence using their NY publicist links to blackmail US politicians/Clinton. White House national security staff bursting Israel's hold on the President through a supremely well engineered public release of Clinton's indiscretions via the Paula Jones case. Middle East peace brokered by statesmen promising to keep mum on each other's transgressions. And, to add a touch of reality, impeachment hearings to punish the President for lying about spitting gum on the sidewalk... Books, movies and future governments are waiting for deals to be signed. $$$ Echelon's a goldmine gentlemen, and Diana and Wassenaar are the first hints of its commercial release. Voyeuristic history will be Echelon's legacy, the NSA will soon become the largest contributor to the National Archive and the booming entertainment economy. From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 13 10:21:24 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Mathematician-to-silicon compilers and the Law Message-ID: <199812131822.TAA01749@replay.com> >> >publishing a paper on the algorithm also transmits that knowledge making 1. In the *best-case*, the published paper transmits some knowledge to the reader :-) 2. In ECAD, tools try to go from that published Paper to circuits. In SoftE, tools try to go from english specs to runnable prototypes. Meanwhile, the humans who do various steps of this translation get paid reasonably well. 2. But eventually normal english prose will be *mechanically translatable* to a machine-ready format. Which means that free speech law starts mixing with machine law (patents, export restrictions, posession restrictions). Because the Instructions become the Thing. You can sell instructions on converting your rifle to full auto, or stealing cable TV. They're protected speech. But suppose you could feed a properly formatted blueprint into a universal fabricator and get a full auto rifle out? Crypto source code fed to a universal computer gives you a regulated item; what happens to the law when regular english is just a few clicks away from being an executable? A chip? There is a fundamental issue that the law doesn't handle at all consistently, because it previously didn't matter much, but which every CS Ugrad knows: There is no difference between software, and hardware. Only such annoyances as cost, development time, throughput, flexibility, etc. (Not everyone can see machines as instantiations of ideas. Politicians have particular problems linking abstractions to atoms. Fortunately, those that can see machines as ideas can turn their ideas into machines.) I see two extrapolated futures. In one, the end result is restrictions on free speech in certain areas (e.g., crypto), for the benefit of national insecurity and the Children. In the other, the Law will have to allow you whatever posessions you like, and only punish *actions* after the fact. Given recent historical trends... ----------- Imagine biologists couldn't publish new enkephalin sequences because someone might put them into a programmable yeast and make unlicensed medicines.. From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 13 13:06:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:06:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: steganography detection hazard? Message-ID: <199812132107.WAA14717@replay.com> Suppose you take your plaintext, encrypt it, then spread the bits across an image as the LSBs. The LSBs will, if you've used a decent cipher, have perfectly uniform distribution. The 'noise' LSBs in a chunk of *digitized* bits will show a *uniform* distribution. (As indeed will the cipher's blocks, or any bitchunk larger or smaller.) Therefore an entropy test (see Maurer) will discriminate between the two. Please prove me wrong. --Stegosaur From astor at guardian.no Sun Dec 13 14:44:11 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:44:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: passwords and hashes Message-ID: <19981213234401.A25332@lucifer.guardian.no> I'm looking into how passwords should be transferred into keys for the loopback filesystem in Linux. Currently, what happens is that you take the SHA or RIPEMD-160 hash of the password string and use that as a key. If the cipher only uses a 128-bit key, the last 32 bits of the hash is unused. I have some questions about this scheme: o In the case of a 128-bit cipher, do I lose any information by not using the last 32 bits of information? Should the last 32 bits be xored with the first 128 in order to not lose any info? o Is there any advantage to _not_ using a 256-bit hash function? (i.e - use a 128-bit hash for 128-bit ciphers). Currently there are lots of AES ciphers that don't get fed a 256-bit key because we only have a 160-bit hash. o Is there a good 256-bit hash function? I don't know of any other than snefru. In this application, speed doesn't matter much. Should I use a 256-bit cipher instead maybe? o Is it safe to always take the hash of the password, or is it better to use the password directly as the key if it is less than 16 characters for 128-bit cipher? astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From astor at guardian.no Sun Dec 13 15:12:18 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:12:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: cfs' ecb+ofb mode vs. interleaved cbc mode Message-ID: <19981214001208.B25332@lucifer.guardian.no> For fast file-system crypto, you really want to implement the ciphers so that you encrypt several blocks at a time. CFS does this by using a special mode (described as ecb+ofb by schneier). The CFS documentation explains: "At attach time, CFS derives from the passphrase into two DES keys, K1 and K2. K1 is used to create two (or three) DES pseudorandom stream ciphers, each 128KB long, S1 and S2. To encrypt a file block, it is first XORd against a unique bitstream derived from the inode number of the file. The result is then XORd against S1 based on its offset in the file. This is then DES ECB encrypted with K2, and the result of that is XORd against the appropriate position in S2. The resulting ciphertext is what is stored. The cipher is reversed in the obvious manner. Filenames are similarly encrypted. There does not appear to be a feasible attack that allows an independent search for the two subkeys K1 and K2; in a brute-force known-plaintext attack, an attacker would have to try all 2**112 key combinations. Note that in the single DES mode, the two keys may be vulnerable to independent exhaustive search under a so-called "linear" attack, but this attack appears to require a large number of chosen plaintexts encrypted under the same inode number. Under most conditions where the attacker cannot introduce large numbers of chosen plaintexts, I believe even the single-DES CFS encryption to be very strong in practice. Note that this is not the same as a "proof". In any event, CFS is always at least as secure as DES or triple DES (as selected when the directory is created). If want high security, select triple DES (now the default); for better performance, use the hybrid single-DES option." I'd like to know how this method compares to using an interleaved cbc mode - for example 8-way interleaved cbc. The n-way interlaved cbc-mode works by chaining each n'th block together instead of each block. This means you get n more messages. For a 512-byte block and a 128-bit block length, this means that each message will be 512/(8*16) = 4 blocks long. For a 4k block you get messages that are 32 blocks long. This might or might not be a problem. With CFS you need 2x the key material - something that is really hard to get by when you're using 256-bit keys. It seems to me you'll have to type in an extremely long password or each of the keys will in practice be weaker than what the theory tells you. Another point is that CFS requires a lot more nonswappable memory than interleaved cbc mode. This means that interleaved cbc mode initially seems more attractive for file-system use. Am I missing something? astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Sun Dec 13 23:47:40 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:47:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3674C269.BBE545D5@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Alexander Kjeldaas wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:04:00PM +0100, Ulf M�ller wrote: > > > > 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software > > remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such > > as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its > > further dissemination". > > I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the > department for foreign affairs in Norway. The response (no surprise) > was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement > calls "public domain" software. I posed a question in this direction in sci.crypt in the thread '(fwd) Strike to protest Wassenaar!' to which Doug Stell gave a follow-up on 11 Dec 14:19:24 which is attached below. M. K. Shen ____________________________________________________ On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:50:12 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >> 2. "In the public domain". > >This is indeed very interesting. If someone implements a strong >crypto algorithm with 128 key bits and places it on an ftp-server >for free download, then that is by definition in the 'public domain' >and hence according to the above not subject to export regulations. >Could someone explain this paradox? a. "Public domain" is defined in the document you refer to, by the indentations under Item 1. b1. 128-bit software is never exempt. b2. 64-bit software is exempt if you meet ALL of the other criteria. b3. The limit of exemption is 56 bits, if you do not meet all of the other criteria. See my other response where this is explained from Catgory 5 - Part 2. Unfortunately, one key statement is missing from the General Software Note and it contains the magic word "ALL." doug From theball at matzah.cc Mon Dec 14 00:11:49 1998 From: theball at matzah.cc (theball at matzah.cc) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:11:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nation's Biggest Jewish Singles Event: Dec. 24 @ Webster Hall Message-ID: <36143.124674421299200.166288@localhost> ******************************************************************* If you would like to continue to receive e-mail notifications regarding UTOPIA's events for Jewish Singles, please let us know by sending us an e-mail at theball at matzah.cc. Please note that this is a one-time mailing only. if we do not hear from you, we will never e-mail you again and we thank you for your time. ******************************************************************** "A high-end event," "awash in cocktail dresses," "attended by Cosmopolitan's Bachelor of the Month" and "3,000 guests who schmoozed their way over three vast floors." -- New York Magazine "Not a creature stirs on Christmas Eve . . . but that's not at this annual party for the city's young and Jewish where some 3,000 people turned out to dance, romance and kick back last year." -- New York Daily News "By midnight the nightclub was alive" with "4,000 partygoers" at this "holiday alternative for Jewish urbanites on their single most silent night of the year." -- The New York Times ******************************************************************** The Nation's BIGGEST Event for Jewish Singles Each Year Since 1995! Thursday, December 24, 8 p.m.- 4 a.m. THE BALL '98 at WEBSTER HALL (125 E. 11th St., between 3rd and 4th Aves, NYC) ************************************************ 4 FLOORS, 4 DJs, 7 UNIQUE ROOMS, 3000+ EXPECTED Grand Ballroom, Live Trapeze, Martini Bar, Jazz Club, Cigar Lounge, Coffee Bar, Flashback Disco, Sports Bar, BlackHole Lounge, more! Please dress with style ************************************************************ Hi, we have sent you this e-mail because we thought you might have interest in "The Ball '98" -- the Nation's Largest Party for Jewish Singles in their 20's and 30's. "The Ball '98" is sponsored by UTOPIA Events. UTOPIA also sponsors the annual "Turkey Ball" on Thanksgiving Eve and other events for Jewish Singles. If you would like to continue to receive e-mail notifications regarding UTOPIA's events for Jewish Singles, please let us know by sending us an e-mail to theball at matzah.cc. Please note that this is a one-time mailing only. if we do not hear from you, we will never e-mail you again and we thank you for your time. THE BALL '98 THE NATION'S BIGGEST EVENT FOR JEWISH SINGLES! Our annual Ball is the nation's biggest event for Jewish Singles in their 20's and 30's. In 1995, over 3000 young Jewish singles attended the Ball when we held it at the Palladium. In 1996, over 3,500 attended at Webster Hall. Last year, over 4000 people attended this event when we held it at The Tunnel and the party was covered by The New York Post, The Daily News, The New York Times, and more. THE BALL '98 4 FLOORS 4 DJs, 7 UNIQUE ROOMS The Ball '98 offers something for everyone: GRAND BALLROOM: For the Ball '98, Webster Hall's Grand Ballroom will be the site of the Main Party -- the place to meet and mingle with thousands of young Jewish singles, featuring dance music from a legendary DJ. We will work to ensure that the atmosphere in the Grand Ballroom (and The Ball '98 generally) is conducive to meeting and mingling. THE MARTINI BAR & JAZZ CLUB: Make this your place for intimate conversation. TTHE TRAPEZE SHOW: At 11:45 p.m., a trapeze artist defies death and gravity high above the Grand Ballroom -- without a net! Not for the faint-hearted. AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO EXPLORE: The Coffee Bar, The Sports Bar, the Cigar Lounge, The Flashback Disco featuring music from the 70's and 80's, the Black Hole Lounge, and more! FOUR ENTRANCES, HUGE COAT CHECK: So that you can quickly enter and enjoy the Nation's Largest Jewish Singles Event, we have made arrangements to use four entrances to Webster Hall and to expand Webster Hall's already large coat check. ADMISSION Admission to The Ball '98 is $20 in advance and $25 at the door (we have added more cashiers this year to make entry easy). For information on purchasing tickets in advance, please call Utopia at 212.459.4321 or e-mail us at theball at matzah.cc. QUESTIONS? If you have any questions about The Ball '98 or any other matter, please feel free to e-mail us (theball at matzah.cc) or call Utopia directly at 212.459.4321 Thanks and we look forward to seeing you on December 24 at Webster Hall for The Ball '98. From astor at guardian.no Mon Dec 14 02:06:22 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:06:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981214110616.B20823@lucifer.guardian.no> On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:46:49AM +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > > a. "Public domain" is defined in the document you refer to, by the > indentations under Item 1. > > b1. 128-bit software is never exempt. > > b2. 64-bit software is exempt if you meet ALL of the other criteria. > > b3. The limit of exemption is 56 bits, if you do not meet all of the > other criteria. > > See my other response where this is explained from Catgory 5 - Part 2. > Unfortunately, one key statement is missing from the General Software > Note and it contains the magic word "ALL." > I haven't heard anything about there not being any exemption on 128-bit crypto. To my knowledge there is a general exemption on all Open Source software, regardless of the key length. However, I will check into this. astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From tre64t3 at rubicon.bf.rmit.oz.au Mon Dec 14 02:27:28 1998 From: tre64t3 at rubicon.bf.rmit.oz.au (tre64t3 at rubicon.bf.rmit.oz.au) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:27:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: req! Message-ID: <199812141027.CAA29086@toad.com> UNIVERSITY DEGREE PROGRAMS Increase your personal prestige and money earning power through an advanced university degree. Eminent, non-accredited universities will award you a degree for only $200. Degree granted based on your present knowledge and experience. No further effort necessary on your part. Just a short phone call is all that is required for a BA, MA, MBA, or PhD diploma in the field of your choice. For details, call 602-230-4252 From Zebra911 at usa.net Mon Dec 14 02:29:04 1998 From: Zebra911 at usa.net (Zebra911 at usa.net) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:29:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Legally Pay No Federal Income Tax ! Message-ID: <199812141028.CAA29112@toad.com> ======================================================= Liberty Electronic Press -- News Release *************** What you are about to learn here may be shocking to you so be pre- pared to learn what most Americans don�t know. First of all there are TWO different American Flags. The most common one you all have seen and recognize. 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"The [district] United States", gives you privileges such as allowing you to sell or deal in Alcohol, Tobacco and fire arms and to own a corporation. All Americans that work for the government, whether it be Federal, State, County or City or live or work on government land such as Washington, D.C., Guam, Samoa, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and other ceded lands are under the jurisdiction of "The [district] United States" and the Admiralty Flag. If you are not in the jurisdiction of "The [district] United States" and the Admiralty Flag you can be EXEMPTED from the Federal Income Tax, filing, withholding, and record keeping. To do this you must get out of their jurisdiction and refute their jurisdiction over you. You will then be considered a Non-Resident Alien and a foreign entity with respect to "The [district] United States". YOU DO NOT LOOSE ANY RIGHTS AND YOU ARE STILL CONSIDERED AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. ACTUALLY YOU GAIN A RIGHT, I.E. YOU DON�T HAVE TO PAY FEDERAL INCOME TAX!!! 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Shouldn't you get yours! --------------------- ORDER FORM - CUT ---------------------------- TO ORDER BY MAIL: Send this order form plus your Name, Address, Phone # and a $59 + $3 S&H - $62 Total (Money Order Only) to: LINKCO -- Dept. # N0001 -- POB 66781 -- Phoenix, AZ 85082 Phone: (602)267-9688 Thanks for reading this message! -(Unconditional Money Back Guarantee)- - Copyright 1996 Linkco - ================================================================== To be REMOVED from this list type REMOVE in the subject area of a new e-mail and send to: CharlieEcho14 at hotmail.com ================================================================== From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Mon Dec 14 03:07:41 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3674F0E6.3BC542D5@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Alexander Kjeldaas wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:46:49AM +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > > > > a. "Public domain" is defined in the document you refer to, by the > > indentations under Item 1. > > > > b1. 128-bit software is never exempt. > > > > b2. 64-bit software is exempt if you meet ALL of the other criteria. > > > > b3. The limit of exemption is 56 bits, if you do not meet all of the > > other criteria. > > > > See my other response where this is explained from Catgory 5 - Part 2. > > Unfortunately, one key statement is missing from the General Software > > Note and it contains the magic word "ALL." > > > > I haven't heard anything about there not being any exemption on > 128-bit crypto. To my knowledge there is a general exemption on all > Open Source software, regardless of the key length. However, I will > check into this. I think that without looking at any official texts this is very clear from the motivation of the Wassenaar effort: They don't want strong crypto ever to be used by common people. So they can't allow 128-bit crypto for free export in any case. Quite misleading, at least in my opinion, is their use of the word 'public domain' software, which most people understand to be software which anyone can download free of charge. BTW, does anyone have an idea of how long would it take before the clauses of Wassenaar become effective in the countries concerned? It can't be intstantly effective, can it? (Laws have to be officially published.) M. K. Shen From astor at guardian.no Mon Dec 14 03:12:31 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:12:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981214121225.A31377@lucifer.guardian.no> On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:05:10PM +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > > BTW, does anyone have an idea of how long would it take before > the clauses of Wassenaar become effective in the countries concerned? > It can't be intstantly effective, can it? (Laws have to be officially > published.) > No laws have to be changed. This is just a "small" change to an existing law. astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From smo at clinet.fi Mon Dec 14 03:30:54 1998 From: smo at clinet.fi (smo at clinet.fi) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:30:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: JUST RELEASED VOL. 2 Message-ID: <011718706870122442@mf_willowstike.com> JUST RELEASED!!! INTRODUCING...THE CD VOL. 2 The CD - Vol. 2, is the absolute best product of its' kind anywhere in the world today. There are no other products anywhere that can compete with the quality of this product. We took a total of over 190 million email addresses from many of the touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, we had in excess of 300+ million addresses in one huge file. We ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. It cut the file down to less than 20 million!!! Can you believe that? 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(outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) DATE_____________________________________________________ NAME____________________________________________________ COMPANY NAME___________________________________________ ADDRESS_________________________________________________ CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________ PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________ FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________ TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: ______VISA _____MASTERCARD CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________ NAME ON CARD___________________________________________ AMOUNT $____________________ (Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________ DATE:x__________________ You may fax your order to us at: 1-212-504-8192 CHECK BY FAX SERVICES! If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192 ****************************************************** ***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192 ******************************************************* If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance. (7-10 days) Make payable to: "GD Publishing" From jwilso37 at visteonet.com Mon Dec 14 05:52:04 1998 From: jwilso37 at visteonet.com (Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 05:52:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Postcard Debates Message-ID: <199812141352.IAA01172@mailfw2.ford.com> The problem with the USPS is that it is government run -- like anything government run, it doesn't work right. It's too expensive, too slow, and too unreliable. Email, on the other hand, is largely handled by the private sector. Hence, it works better. What I find interesting (in response to your note that the USPS would charge), is that the U.S. government had to actually pass a law to make sure the U.S. government doesn't start taxing the Internet. ____________________________________________________ Jamie R. Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Reeza! [mailto:howree at cable.navy.mil] Sent: Friday, 11 December, 1998 20:51 To: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: RE: Postcard Debates This would open the door for the USPS to charge for each email sent. The same rules? No. Based on those rules, but not the same rules. The same rules would slow email down considerably also, wouldn't they??? Reeza! At 08:41 AM 12/11/98 -0500, Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) wrote: >If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised >regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and >simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's >understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it >in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same >note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for >tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws >should apply to email. > >____________________________________________________ >Jamie R. Wilson > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler at usachoice.com] >Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56 >To: Mbishop645 at aol.com >Cc: maven at weirdness.com; hab at gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks at toad.com >Subject: Re: > > > > >Mbishop645 at aol.com wrote: >> >> >HaB wrote: >> > >> >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to >> >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the >> >> electronic equivalent of one?" >> >> >> >> balance. >> > >> >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? >> >One word: postcard. >> >> Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other >> than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? > >No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the >chance for it to fall off. > >There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of >security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside >an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the >envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to >have it go by without much notice. > >It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do >with what amounts to postcard security. > >What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be >willing to do something extra for that security? > >This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the >person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to >understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are >willing to take. > > > From 785 Mon Dec 14 22:32:08 1998 From: 785 (785) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:32:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: CALL 1-800-HOT-PUSSY....CALL NOW!! Message-ID: <05130043702493@netcast.ipsoa.it> Hi Sexy, I am lonely waiting for you to call me. Let me be the "Little Secret" in your life! WARNING!! These lines are extremely xxx-rated. Adults over 18 only!!! Sex starved girls will give you a hot sexual experience you'll never forget. Not recommended for people with weak hearts or bad backs!!! Call 1-800-HOT-PUSSY(468-7877) $2.99-$4.99 per min. Billed by Teleworld Visa/Mastercard/Amex Must be over 18 Call 1-900-288-LIVE(5483) (US ONLY) Billed as 1-ON-1 on your phone bill $25.00 per call Must be over 18 1-900-451-PUSSY(7877) (Canada) $2.99-$4.99 per min. (US $) CALL NOW!!! CALL NOW!!! CALL NOW!!! From ichudov at www.video-collage.com Mon Dec 14 07:27:44 1998 From: ichudov at www.video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:27:44 +0800 Subject: test Message-ID: <199812141448.JAA21199@mail.video-collage.com> test From ichudov at www.video-collage.com Mon Dec 14 08:08:52 1998 From: ichudov at www.video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:08:52 +0800 Subject: test1 Message-ID: <199812141520.KAA22634@mail.video-collage.com> test1 From james at wired.com Mon Dec 14 08:23:55 1998 From: james at wired.com (James Glave) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:23:55 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com> Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this with a news story... jtg At 03:10 PM 12/10/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 9:05 AM -0500 on 12/10/98, Ken Williams wrote: > >> "Strike to protest Wassenaar!" >> >> URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ >> >> "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on >> Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar >> Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions >> on cryptographic software technology. > >Now, *this* is interesting... > >Anyone actually contemplating doing this? James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com +1 (415) 276-8430 From perry at piermont.com Mon Dec 14 08:55:14 1998 From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:55:14 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com> Message-ID: <199812141606.LAA14162@jekyll.piermont.com> James Glave writes: > Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this > with a news story... I find it exceptionally unlikely that many people are participating in this. Whomever called the thing was not thinking very clearly. You need at least several weeks notice for such a thing to work, and the two or three days notice (at most) that was given was way too small. A strike of this nature might work, but only if someone with political sense were organizing it. Perry From sunder at brainlink.com Mon Dec 14 09:17:44 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:17:44 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: <199812141606.LAA14162@jekyll.piermont.com> Message-ID: <36753E2F.9A9306BC@brainlink.com> "Perry E. Metzger" wrote: > > James Glave writes: > > Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this > > with a news story... > > I find it exceptionally unlikely that many people are participating in > this. Whomever called the thing was not thinking very clearly. You > need at least several weeks notice for such a thing to work, and the > two or three days notice (at most) that was given was way too small. A > strike of this nature might work, but only if someone with political > sense were organizing it. > > Perry I'm striking. Likely for more than a week more... -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson -- http://www.sunder.net is protesting the Wassenaar Big Brother Attack! -- From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 14 09:18:20 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:18:20 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:29 AM -0500 on 12/14/98, James Glave wrote: > Anyone participating in the strike today? Evidently not... Cheers, Robert Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From dulac at ip.pt Mon Dec 14 09:41:22 1998 From: dulac at ip.pt (Dutra de Lacerda) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:41:22 +0800 Subject: Mathematician-to-silicon compilers and the Law Message-ID: <4.1.19981214164250.00962370@mail2.ip.pt> At Sunday, you wrote: >what happens to the law when regular english is just a few clicks away from >being an executable? A chip? How about the best cipher of all?!? The one we carry between our ears? (Just proving the illegitimacy of such law attempts) >Politicians have particular problems linking abstractions to atoms. Will they understand the question: Can we decipher a Human memory by analysis of a brain?!? And if they consider crypto as a weapon what about cars and radios... ...and phones... and pens... etc. I'm thinking of the Jeep in military action... Cars are used by terrorists. They depend on them. Same with phones... pens... radios etc. ... (Not to talk again about human memory) All these items have the SAME importance as crypto... with an increasing treat cars can be when changed in REAL weapons. Are these anti-crypto folks just stupid... or insane?: Why don't they do laws limited to the terrorists?!? In my country guns are prohibited... but criminals have them. The arguments used by them just smell funny. So: Anti-Crypto can only have a point as a tool to political control. It also is the negation of all human rights including the one of intellectual property. Brave new World?!? >I see two extrapolated futures. In one, the end result is restrictions on >free speech in certain areas (e.g., crypto), for the benefit of national >insecurity and the Children. In the other, the Law will have to allow you >whatever posessions you like, and only punish *actions* after the fact. >Given recent historical trends... Only brought to public prepairing the anti-crypto campaign! What are the real links?!? Facts please! Fact: No government today governs... they now only manage economies. The result: The degradation of social and cultural links. ... and what have been the actions taken to such irresponsibility?!? Not actions of correction but of repression... Wrong path!!! D.L. - - - Antonio Manuel Melo de Carvalho Dutra de Lacerda Morada : Rua Rodrigues Cabrilho, 5 - 5 Esq. 1400 Lisboa, PORTUGAL Telefone : +351-(1)-3013579 FAX & BBS : +351-(1)-3021098 From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Mon Dec 14 10:02:45 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:02:45 +0800 Subject: IRS COMPUTER SYSTEMS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO DATE Message-ID: A consortium of companies led by Computer Sciences has been awarded a major contract for a 15-year project intended to modernize the computer systems of the Internal Revenue Service. USA Today 10 Dec 98 From GomesC at netsolve.net Mon Dec 14 10:14:53 1998 From: GomesC at netsolve.net (Gomes, Carlos) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:14:53 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? Message-ID: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A353853107@cobra.netsolve.net> Even http://www.openpgp.net is still up and operational. I agree with Perry M. and Jim C. that the concept was good but the timetable was unfortunately unrealistic. I've not run across any strike pages. me -- Carlos Macedo Gomes gomes at netsolve.com NetSolve, Inc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Hettinga [mailto:rah at shipwright.com] > Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:01 AM > To: James Glave > Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com; cryptography at c2.net; dcsb at ai.mit.edu > Subject: Re: Anyone Striking? > > > At 10:29 AM -0500 on 12/14/98, James Glave wrote: > > > > Anyone participating in the strike today? > > Evidently not... > > Cheers, > Robert Hettinga > ----------------- > Robert A. Hettinga > Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > From jya at pipeline.com Mon Dec 14 10:48:22 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:48:22 +0800 Subject: IBM's Secure Mailer In-Reply-To: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A353853107@cobra.netsolve.net> Message-ID: <199812141810.NAA25671@camel8.mindspring.com> NYT's Markoff reports on IBMs' release today of "Secure Mailer," an open-source platform for what's touted to be a superior secure e-mail system proposed as a global standard for open development. It's the work of IBM researcher Wietse Venema. IBM's description: http://jya.com/ibm-secmail.htm From fod at brd.ie Mon Dec 14 10:53:23 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:53:23 +0800 Subject: Text of Wassenaar regulations, with comments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3675520A.B9A4350@brd.ie> "Arnold G. Reinhold" wrote: > I am not a lawyer and different administrations could issue more > restrictive rules (as the US does), but the new Wassenaar regulations > themselves do not seem to affect free distribution of programs like PGP and > Linux as long as they qualify as "public domain" as Wassenaar defines it. Unfortunately, AFAIK copyrighted software is NOT public domain. GPL and the like usually make a big song and dance to the effect of "this s/w is copyrighted and not in the public domain". Even worse, I think the original PGP is pretty clearly not in the public domain, since commercial uses must be paid for. So does anyone know just how does Wassenaar define the term "public domain", and is open source indeed covered? Cheers, Frank. From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 14 11:29:41 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:29:41 +0800 Subject: COMMENT: Minimum Security Devices and Procedures and Bank Secrecy Message-ID: <199812141849.TAA01522@replay.com> >If this act is passed, I know what my response will be. I will promptly >withdraw all my monies from any institution that follows these regulations, >refuse to do any sort of business with them, and urge all my friends and >family to do the same. I know that many others will do the same without >hesitation. Today I called the manager of the branch where I have account (for many years) and asked him about "Know your customer" thingy and reporting that they currently do. He seemed knowledgable to a certain extent about this matter, and assured me that today they report only the $10K+ cash transactions. Then I told him that I will take my business elsewhere should they decide to offer "know your customer" service to the government and asked him nicely to relay my stand to his manager. Call them. These people make living from your money. From cyphrpnk at rainbow.thinkthink.com Mon Dec 14 11:32:59 1998 From: cyphrpnk at rainbow.thinkthink.com (cyphrpnk at rainbow.thinkthink.com) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:32:59 +0800 Subject: Some sites are...!! Message-ID: <199812141853.KAA05212@rainbow.thinkthink.com> -------- Some of us were in a position to make the switch... www.first-ecache.com www.donpablocigars.com www.permutation.net Service will resume as normal at 2400 monday PST cheers Gwen Hastings Web weaver for above sites From billh at ibag.com Mon Dec 14 11:45:28 1998 From: billh at ibag.com (William J.Hartwell) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:45:28 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981214114703.007e68f0@mail.xroads.com> Not striking..... but I am not working very hard today :-) At 11:01 AM 12/14/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 10:29 AM -0500 on 12/14/98, James Glave wrote: > > >> Anyone participating in the strike today? > >Evidently not... > >Cheers, >Robert Hettinga >----------------- >Robert A. Hettinga >Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > -- William J. Hartwell (602)987-8436 Queencreek, Az. billh at ibag.com billh at interdem.com billh at hartwell.net From tcmay at got.net Mon Dec 14 11:48:51 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:48:51 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A353853107@cobra.netsolve.net> Message-ID: At 9:29 AM -0800 12/14/98, Gomes, Carlos wrote: >Even http://www.openpgp.net is still up and operational. I agree with Perry >M. and Jim C. that the concept was good but the timetable was unfortunately >unrealistic. I've not run across any strike pages. A foolish idea, that little "strike." Something out of the lefty sixties. Grape boycotts and all that nonsense. Clearly the Wassenaar folks will be so influenced by a few thousands computer users withdrawing from the Net for one frigging day that they will rethink their Orwellian plans and will admit their crimes in an orgy of self-criticism. Give me a fucking break. The _only_ motivation was to induce journalists to give the think a few column inches, if even that. "Hundreds of geeks cut their noses off to spite their faces...details on page 75." Exporting PGP within minutes of its release...now _that's_ a meaningful action! (And one which Cypherpunks continue to be good at.) Let's leave the "National Solidarity Against Racist Policies" crapola to the lefties. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From aa at swipnet.se Mon Dec 14 11:59:03 1998 From: aa at swipnet.se (Sun Toucher) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:59:03 +0800 Subject: Striking! Message-ID: <3675634F.331A@swipnet.se> well you could say I striked. "Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall" From GomesC at netsolve.net Mon Dec 14 12:08:25 1998 From: GomesC at netsolve.net (Gomes, Carlos) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:08:25 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? Message-ID: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A35385310A@cobra.netsolve.net> My original statement is a bit off. I think the past weekend in Dallas is still with in spirit.... I don't think Jim nor Perry openly advocated the strike so let me chop that statement. And as for myself, I was hoping to see something a bit more active in regards to a protest and I was hoping that the call to strike would be a start. The call appears to have been slightly still born if not horribly premature. There were several ideas floating around: a) detach from the net and from work b) create a signed letter of disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_ loosely organized burst of DoS against select online targets from widely distributed sources. All valid forms of protests (when properly organized and executed) all with varying forms of impact and visibility. For the record, I think option c) could be a valid and effective form of active protest. It is a form which has not been used in support of the cpunks' agenda (or many agenda's for that matter) to date and one that merits a review. On to the next online skirmish... regards, C.G. -- DISCLAIMER: The above views are mine and not of my employer or coworkers. I do not speak as a representative of their views. Only of my own. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim May [mailto:tcmay at got.net] > Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 12:39 PM > To: Gomes, Carlos; James Glave > Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com; cryptography at c2.net; dcsb at ai.mit.edu > Subject: RE: Anyone Striking? > > > At 9:29 AM -0800 12/14/98, Gomes, Carlos wrote: > >Even http://www.openpgp.net is still up and operational. I > agree with Perry > >M. and Jim C. that the concept was good but the timetable > was unfortunately > >unrealistic. I've not run across any strike pages. > > A foolish idea, that little "strike." Something out of the > lefty sixties. > Grape boycotts and all that nonsense. > [deletia] > From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 14 12:44:53 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:44:53 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Scott Loftesness" To: Subject: DigiCash Update Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:43:13 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ It's been a while since I've posted an update regarding DigiCash. As you know, DigiCash Incorporated filed Chapter 11 in early November. Since that time, over the course of the last several weeks, we've been engaged in discussions with a number of parties around the potential acquisition of the DigiCash assets. These discussions with potential acquirers are continuing. We are also exploring other options for DigiCash. One of these options involves establishing a more broadly based licensing structure for the DigiCash intellectual property. I would welcome those of you who are specifically interested in licensing the DigiCash IP for your own purposes to get in touch with me directly (Email is fine -- see below). Please specify your particular area of interest in the DigiCash IP when you contact me. (Please note that we are well aware of several recommendations for opening up the DigiCash IP. These recommendations have been posted on this list as well as having been discussed with me privately. We are primarily interested at this time, however, in ensuring that we are directly aware of those of you who have a direct licensing interest in the DigiCash IP specifically for your own purposes.) Best, Scott __________________________________________________________________ Interim CEO DigiCash Incorporated 2656 E. Bayshore Road Palo Alto, CA 94303 (650) 798-8183 work (650) 533-3142 cell Email: scott at loftesness.com or: sjl at digicash.com --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 13:16:16 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:16:16 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: <19981214202550.24462.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come up with something better. That act of protest, no matter how small, serves to raise awareness. Whether it's five minutes after finding out that a war has errupted, or ten years into the war, each serves its purpose. At least it was na idea, it was a start. We're never going to be able to do anything at all if we don't start somewhere and the strike seemed as good an idea as any. Hopefully we can follow in the footsteps of our ancestors who fought and died for freedom, true freedom not this crap we see displayed on the tube everynight. I hope we don't fall into that catagorie of the kinds of people that talk and talk and never do, for if this is the case, then we have already lost and might as well drive ourselves to the concentration camps. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 iQA/AwUBNnVz81MQ9C083U98EQI68wCfbCa/HA/NN1+u3865z7Oq3m5XvnEAn3kE wl2adBuq2l21DFm/Isn+5MzK =uEBu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From mlanett at meer.net Mon Dec 14 13:32:30 1998 From: mlanett at meer.net (Mark Lanett) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:32:30 +0800 Subject: Mathematician-to-silicon compilers and the Law Message-ID: <00a301be27a2$1ccb66f0$010101c0@aboutbox.meer.net> Speaking of carrying... Can I export my theoretical closed-source-commercial-strong-crypto-using software by printing out the source at Kinko's, binding it, and flying out of the country? Any company can afford to set up a 1-person shop in a variety of countries as necessary (besides you need local ops to distribute and do tech support). Or do F-O-Speech rights only apply to books published in quantity and that I'm willing to let anyone read? [I assume I haven't been paying enough attention; if was this easy then Wassenaar wouldn't be effective.] ~mark -----Original Message----- From: Dutra de Lacerda >How about the best cipher of all?!? The one we carry between our ears? >(Just proving the illegitimacy of such law attempts) From reinhold at world.std.com Mon Dec 14 14:15:03 1998 From: reinhold at world.std.com (Arnold G. Reinhold) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:15:03 +0800 Subject: Text of Wassenaar regulations, with comments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:59 PM +0000 12/14/98, Frank O'Dwyer wrote: >"Arnold G. Reinhold" wrote: >> I am not a lawyer and different administrations could issue more >> restrictive rules (as the US does), but the new Wassenaar regulations >> themselves do not seem to affect free distribution of programs like PGP and >> Linux as long as they qualify as "public domain" as Wassenaar defines it. > >Unfortunately, AFAIK copyrighted software is NOT public domain. GPL and >the like usually make a big song and dance to the effect of "this s/w is >copyrighted and not in the public domain". Even worse, I think the >original PGP is pretty clearly not in the public domain, since >commercial uses must be paid for. So does anyone know just how does >Wassenaar define the term "public domain", and is open source indeed >covered? > This is the definition of PD from Wassenaar's "DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED IN THESE LISTS" http://www.fitug.de/news/wa/Def.html: >GTN "In the public domain" > > GSN This means "technology" or "software" which >has been made available without restrictions upon its further >dissemination. > > N.B. Copyright restrictions >do not remove "technology" or "software" from > being "in the public domain". I think that is pretty clear, but it might be wise for people who are distributing open source crypto to include language in their legal notices stating that the material is to be considered in the public domain for the purposes of the Wassenaar arangement and waving any rights that would cause the export of the material to be prohibited under that arangement. Check with a good lawyer first, of course. Arnold Reinhold From emc at wire.insync.net Mon Dec 14 14:42:36 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:42:36 +0800 Subject: Forced DNA Collection Message-ID: <199812142047.OAA07639@wire.insync.net> Top Story on AP... NEW YORK (AP) -- Despite objections from civil libertarians, the city's police commissioner proposed Monday to take a DNA sample along with the fingerprints of everyone arrested. Commissioner Howard Safir said the test would solve crimes and help curb repeat offenders. ``The innocents have nothing to fear ... only if you are guilty should you worry about DNA testing,'' he said. ... In Britain, where DNA samples are taken from every suspect, officials have solved 17 major cases using such data since 1995, according to the National Institute of Justice Journal. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com Tue Dec 15 07:11:26 1998 From: Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com (Marita Nasman-Repo) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:11:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security Partners Program Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981215170136.0098ad60@smtp.datafellows.com> This message comes from Data Fellows. You have previously expressed interest in our products or asked to be included on one of our press release lists. To remove yourself from our mailing lists, reply to this message with the text "remove " in the subject field. PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security Partners Program Helsinki, Finland, December 15, 1998-- Data Fellows, the global leader in developing data security software solutions, has been invited to join the Microsoft Security Partners Program. The Microsoft Security Partners Program (http://www.microsoft.com/security/partners) provides customers with the tools and information they need to establish, test and maintain effective information security for their computing infrastructure. The program brings together software manufacturers, security consultants and security trainers, making it even easier for customers to provide robust security in their Microsoft Windows NT operating system-based networks. Three Data Fellows products are included in the Microsoft Security Partners Program. F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption, all integrated into a policy-based management architecture. F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSec/IKE VPN solution scaleable for large corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks. F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time encryption directly into the Windows NT-based file system. "Microsoft is pleased to include Data Fellows as part of its Security Partners Program," said Karan Khanna, Windows NT Security Product Manager at Microsoft Corp. "This program will help our mutual customers develop and deploy secure solutions built on the Windows NT platform." "The relationship with Microsoft shows Data Fellows� commitment to improve the native security of standalone and networked computers with a comprehensive, centrally managed suite of security services," said Risto Siilasmaa, president and CEO of Data Fellows. "Data Fellows is committed to providing globally available seamless security for Windows users; security that is strong yet easy to manage and economical." Data Fellows is one of the world�s leading developers of data security products. The company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data security and cryptography software products for corporate computer networks. The company has head offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland, and branch offices in Washington, DC, Calgary, London, Paris and Munich, as well as corporate partners, VARs and distributors in over 80 countries. All F-Secure products are integrated into the F-Secure Framework management architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based management infrastructure which minimizes the costs of security management. In addition to the products in the Microsoft Security Partners Program, the F-Secure product line also includes the following products. F-Secure Anti-Virus is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and protection system for all Windows platforms. It utilizes multiple scanning engines, including F-PROT and AVP. F-Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other connections over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure remote administration tool. F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for remote Internet and intranet DNS administration. Its easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and simplifies DNS administration. Data Fellows has customers in more than 100 countries. Its customers include many of the world�s largest industrial corporations and best-known telecommunications companies, major international airlines, governments, post offices and defence forces, and several of the world�s largest banks. Data Fellows was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations include the Virus Bulletin 100 % award (several times in 1998); Hot Product of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); and the 1996 European Information Technology Grand Prize. For more information, please contact USA: Data Fellows, Inc. Mr. Pirkka Palomaki 675 N. First Street, 8th floor San Jose, CA 95112 USA Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701 E-mail: Pirkka.Palomaki at DataFellows.com Europe: Data Fellows Ltd. Mr. Ari Hypponen PL 24 FIN-02331 Espoo Finland Tel. +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599 E-mail: Ari.Hypponen at DataFellows.com -- Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com, World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com From measl at mfn.org Mon Dec 14 16:30:22 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:30:22 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com> Message-ID: We just returned from this. Feel free to ask whatever you'd like. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, James Glave wrote: :Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:29:32 -0800 :From: James Glave :To: Robert Hettinga :Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com, cryptography at c2.net, dcsb at ai.mit.edu :Subject: Anyone Striking? : :Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this :with a news story... : :jtg : :At 03:10 PM 12/10/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: :>At 9:05 AM -0500 on 12/10/98, Ken Williams wrote: :> :>> "Strike to protest Wassenaar!" :>> :>> URL: http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/ :>> :>> "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on :>> Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar :>> Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions :>> on cryptographic software technology. :> :>Now, *this* is interesting... :> :>Anyone actually contemplating doing this? : : :James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com +1 (415) 276-8430 : From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 14 16:41:40 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:41:40 +0800 Subject: .... Message-ID: <199812150016.BAA31878@replay.com> > For fast file-system crypto, you really want to implement the ciphers > so that you encrypt several blocks at a time. ... > I'd like to know how this method compares to using an interleaved cbc > mode - for example 8-way interleaved cbc. The n-way interlaved > cbc-mode works by chaining each n'th block together instead of each > block. [...] Am I missing something? In either case, you need to be sure that changed data is always encrypted with different parameters -- that is, a changed file should be encrypted with a new IV or different offset into S1 and S2. Otherwise, the attacks used to recover badly wiped information could be used to look back in time, so to speak, and figure out which portions of the file were changed. It's more of a problem if you're using ofb o ecb o ofb (i.e., the CFS mode) than an interleaved CBC mode. The 8-way interleaved CBC mode should have different IVs for each "lane" (that is, a monster 512-bit IV) -- otherwise, files data types with repetitions in the headers could be identified. The IV should be secret to completely rule out leakage. However, there are some important restrictions on how you can use the key in making an IV -- I suggest something like this to ensure nothing is messed up: hash the passphrase into K0, use nDES-OFB with K0 to make a K1 and K2, then nDES-OFB with K1 for making the IVs which nDES-interleaved-CBC uses with K2 for the actual encryption. > > astor > > -- > Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway > http://www.guardian.no/ From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Mon Dec 14 17:23:23 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:23 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981214114703.007e68f0@mail.xroads.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, William J.Hartwell wrote: > Not striking..... > > but I am not working very hard today :-) > I didn't get into the office until after noon. That oughta be worth something ... yawn From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Mon Dec 14 17:38:14 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:38:14 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <19981214202550.24462.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > up with something better. That act of protest, no matter how small, > serves to raise awareness. Nothing like an extremely weak protest effort to hurt the cause ... Having three geeks unplug their computers for a day sends the message that "nobody cares." From mib at io.com Mon Dec 14 17:41:54 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:41:54 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <19981214202550.24462.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <19981214191405.A1534@io.com> On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote: > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > up with something better. Cypherpunks write code? - d. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Dec 14 18:06:06 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:06:06 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . (fwd) Message-ID: <199812150144.TAA05750@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:14:05 -0600 > From: mib > Subject: Re: I must admit. . . > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote: > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > > up with something better. > > Cypherpunks write code? It's too bad they don't publish some of it in a newspaper or two... ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Dec 14 18:31:59 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:31:59 +0800 Subject: The grandest jury nullification? Message-ID: <199812150215.UAA05879@einstein.ssz.com> Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per the various samples. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From fjaj732h at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 19:11:25 1998 From: fjaj732h at yahoo.com (fjaj732h at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:11:25 +0800 Subject: I missed you! Message-ID: <199812150214.SAA15932@toad.com> 
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From jya at pipeline.com Mon Dec 14 19:19:15 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:19:15 +0800 Subject: E-Snoop Law Review Message-ID: <199812150246.VAA20931@smtp3.mindspring.com> South Africa published in November a discussion paper, "Review of Security Legislation" on electronic surveillance law in several countries -- South Africa, US, UK, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada and Hong Kong, with detailed review of legislation of the last two -- as a basis for new legislation to protect against latest intrusive technology, or, rather, to restrict its usage to government agencies: http://jya.com/za-esnoop.htm (364K) Its comparative review of surveillance law is informative for the way it lays out the similarity of each country's definition of the threat of technology -- somewhat to citizen privacy but more importantly to law enforcement. It notes variations in privacy protection law, and finds, for example, US and UK deficiencies in that area even as these countries excell in manufacturing the evil tools. Still, South Africa is joining the crowd in tightening controls on technology by proposing that telecomm providers make their systems accessible to government (at their own expense), emulating the recent US-EU snooping agreement advanced by the FBI and Europol. Thanks to APB for pointing. From twaweb at inet2.twa.com Tue Dec 15 12:47:27 1998 From: twaweb at inet2.twa.com (Trans World Specials) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:47:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales Message-ID: <19981215163725.21354.qmail@inet2.twa.com> Welcome to Trans World Specials for December 15th, 1998. This week marks the beginning of a great enhancement for Trans World Specials. To make it easier for you, telephoning is no longer necessary. After you read over the list of Trans World Specials just point your browser to http://www.twa.com/hotdeals and book your trip directly on our website. It's easy and only takes a minute. Just point and click. All tickets must be purchased between December 15 and December 18, 1998. All domestic fares allow travel to originate in either direction, except New York/Las Vegas, which may originate in New York only. Travel to St. Maarten may originate in New York City only. Did you know TWA has gift certificates available for you to give to your friends and family? Read all about it on our home page at http://www.twa.com On to this week's Trans World Specials. *************INTERNATIONAL************ Roundtrip fare from NEW YORK, NY (JFK) to: (Depart New York on December 17 or 18 and return December 19-21, 24, 25) Fare: City: $248 St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles ************DOMESTIC***************** Roundtrip fare between ST. LOUIS, MO and: (Depart Friday 12/18 after 7 p.m. and return Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22) Fare: City: $129 Atlanta, GA $139 Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX $139 Pittsburgh, PA $89 Wichita, KS Roundtrip fares between ST. LOUIS, MO and: (Depart Friday 12/18 after 7 p.m. or all day 12/19 and return Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22) Fare: City: $89 Dayton, OH $69 Louisville, KY $69 Springfield, MO Roundtrip fare From NEW YORK, NY (JFK) to: (Depart Friday 12/18 or Saturday 12/19 and return Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22. Nonstop) Fare: City: $239 Las Vegas, NV **************ALAMO**************** Alamo offers the following low rates valid 12/12/98 - 12/14/98. $17.49 Las Vegas, NV - St. Louis, MO $20.49 Atlanta, GA - Pittsburgh, PA For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT and ID # 443833. For online reservations visit Alamo at: http://www.goalamo.com ********HILTON HOTELS/RESORTS**************** Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers these low rates valid the night of 12/18/98 - 12/21/98. $59 Hilton Arlington - Arlington, TX (Includes breakfast for two! Visit Six Flags Over Texas and Hurricane Harbor) $85 Hilton Atlanta & Towers - Atlanta, GA (Downtown near Peachtree Center, SCITREK museum, and the Underground) $49 Hilton Atlanta Northwest - Atlanta, GA (Convenient to Six Flags, Marietta, and downtown Atlanta) $79 Hilton Dallas Parkway - Dallas, TX (N. Dallas location, free shuttle to Galleria and Valley View Shopping Malls) $76 The Seelbach Hilton Louisville - Louisville, KY (Located in downtown Louisville close to shopping, fine dining and theatres) $85 Hilton Pittsburgh & Towers - Pittsburgh, PA (Near theatres, museums, and restaurants, overlooks Pointe State Park) $89 Hilton St. Louis Frontenac - St. Louis, MO (Free airport shuttle and parking, located midtown near shopping and entertainment) For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask for Hilton Value Rates. Visit Hilton online at http://www.hilton.com ***************TERMS & CONDITIONS************** Airfare: GENERAL : Fares shown are roundtrip, nonrefundable and nonchangeable. Tickets may only be purchased via the TWA website. Fares do not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $12 depending on itinerary. Electronic ticketing and credit card form of payment only. Offer is not available in conjunction with any other promotion, coupon, or discount. Seats are limited and may not be availabe on all flights or dates. Standby is not allowed. Tickets must be purchased at the time of booking. Travel is on TWA only, no other air carrier. Certain domestic airfares of $89 or higher may be discounted by redeeming 5000 Aviatior miles. Aviator miles are not earned when redeeming miles for fare discount. Aviators earned and purchased upgrades may not be used in conjunction with the 5000 mile redemption. Once miles are redeemed they may not be recredited to the members account and are nonrefundable. DOMESTIC: All fares allow travel to originate in either direction (except NYC/LAS which may originate in NY only). All fares allow departure Friday 12/18 after 7 p.m. and certain fares indicated also allow departure all day Saturday 12/19. All return travel is allowed either Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22. All travel must be completed by 12/22. Travel between New York and Las Vegas via nonstop flights only. Tickets must be purchased by 12/18/98. INTERNATIONAL: Travel for St. Maarten must originate in New York only and may depart December 17 or 18. Return travel is allowed December 19-21, 24, 25. Fare does not include $47 in APHIS/U.S. Customs/Immigration/ U.S. Departure/Security Surcharge fees. Aviator upgrades are not permitted. Tickets must be purchased by 12/18/98. Car Rental Conditions: Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if any, are extra. Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for economy rentals(unless stated otherwise by Alamo) commencing on Friday and ending by 11:59 PM on Monday. Rates only valid during week in which they are published via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. Two day minimum rental required. Hotel Conditions: Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the specific week in which they are published via the TWA Hot Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. Limited availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are not guaranteed and will be confirmed at time of reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out subject to availability. No extra charge for children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' room; total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations and other applicable laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not include any other fees or charges, including without limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot be combined with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, promotional offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms of other offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus or any other problem or damage related to use of the program or its offers. From ian at deepwell.com Mon Dec 14 21:34:54 1998 From: ian at deepwell.com (Ian Briggs) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:54 +0800 Subject: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant In-Reply-To: <199812150215.UAA05879@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19981214211219.01c982c0@deepwell.com> >Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a >censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury >nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per >the various samples. Has it occured to anyone that if Congress votes for censure, we will have the fastest rulling by the Supreme Court that censure is unconstitutional in the history of the U.S.? Ian Welcome to 1984 as with all goverment projects, its a bit late and slightly overbudget -Ian Briggs. From dave at liveauctiononline.com Tue Dec 15 15:09:07 1998 From: dave at liveauctiononline.com (dave at liveauctiononline.com) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:09:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Free Banner offer from LAO--- Message-ID: <199812152305.PAA16803@liveauctiononline.com> Hi :) We are looking for a limited number of reputable online companies who are interested in using our online auction to sell their products. We think that we can work together to help each other promote our on-line store-fronts. We would like you to become an "Anchor Tenant" at L.A.O., here is how it works: - We will place "Your Banner" in a category that matches the type of items that you sell. - Bidders access "only your" items by clicking on "Your Banner". - You guarantee to keep a minimum of 100 auctions running at L.A.O. - You provide a reciprocal link from your site to ours. - NO LISTING FEE, you only pay a small % only on the items that sell. What are the benefits: Exposure - we place only "Your Banner" in the Your Category. Exposure - we link "Your Banner" to your web site!! Exposure - only "your auctions" are featured in your selected Category. Live Auction Online is currently getting over 1,000,000 hits a month and we have close to 10,000 members. Please let us know as soon as possible, we have a limited number of categories and we will only place 1 Banner in each category!! Go to http://www.liveauctiononline.com and click on the "Beanie" category to see how our "Anchor Tenancy" works. Also, click on the link on our front page to get more info on our "Anchor Tenancy". Also, please send your website address and aprox. hits you are recieving if you have advertising on your site. From tcmay at got.net Mon Dec 14 23:09:13 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:09:13 +0800 Subject: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant In-Reply-To: <199812150215.UAA05879@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 1:13 PM -0800 12/14/98, Ian Briggs wrote: >>Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a >>censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury >>nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per >>the various samples. > >Has it occured to anyone that if Congress votes for censure, we will have >the fastest rulling by the Supreme Court that censure is unconstitutional >in the history of the U.S.? > I confess to watching and listening to entirely too much coverage of this event, on CNN, Court TV, CNBC, MSNBC, Fox, and the networks. Maybe more coverage than I watched in 1995 for the O.J. trial. The legislative branch, Congress, is free to pass any sort of resolution condemning Bill Clinton that they wish to. In fact, the Congress once quite constitutionally voted a bill of censure of President Andrew Jackson. (These bills of censure are really just expressions of negative opinion. They carry no consequences other than being "the sense of Congress.') What they cannot do is to pass a "bill of attainder," a law punishing a specific person, whether a President or you and me. By punishment I mean a fine, or imprisonment. Outside of this, they are free to do as they wish. Not that I support such a bullshit minor punishment. Clinton is _asking_ for Congress to censure him, so what's the point? --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Mon Dec 14 23:30:23 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:30:23 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: At 12:25 PM -0800 12/14/98, Joel O'Connor wrote: >I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop >this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was >an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come >up with something better. Public protests...what have they ever accomplished? (If you cite the so-called Civil Rights Movement, you get minus 10 points.) --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Dec 15 01:26:12 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:26:12 +0800 Subject: I Got Mine In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981208173418.0072b52c@pop3.idt.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981213140727.00bc6cd0@idiom.com> At 03:56 PM 12/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Not much you can say to them while standing out in the cold, in any case. >(Surely you will not invite them into your home! It does somewhat resemble inviting vampires into your home, in that it's a bad idea, they can do whatever they want when they're there, and they won't leave until they feel like it. On the other hand, vampires usually can't get search warrants, while police usually can. :-) A while back, maybe 5 years ago, I posted a copy of an article called "Don't talk to cops" or "Don't talk to police", which may still be in the archives somewhere. Its advice was somewhat New York State oriented, but applies reasonably generally throughout the US for the case of police coming to your home (car searches are different, and vary far more by state.) >Maybe not even confirming my name...after all, I'm not driving and they >can't compell me to produce a driver's license. Not true in California. If you *possess* a California Driver's License, and have it on your person, and a California cop asks you to produce it, you are required to do so, even if you're not driving. You're not required to carry it if you're not driving, but if you are carrying it, you've got to fork it over. This may not apply if you're on your own property - I don't think that that variant has been tested in court. But if you're on public property, you've got to provide it. If you live in other states, it's worth knowing the local regs about such things as well. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From R.Hirschfeld at cwi.nl Tue Dec 15 17:47:29 1998 From: R.Hirschfeld at cwi.nl (Ray Hirschfeld) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:47:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: FC99 Preliminary Conference Program Message-ID: Financial Cryptography '99 February 22-25, 1999, Anguilla, BWI Preliminary Conference Program FC99, the third international conference on financial data security and digital commerce, will be held in Anguilla, British West Indies. FC99 aims to bring together persons involved in both the financial and data security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas. The conference is organized by the International Financial Cryptography Association (IFCA). PRELIMINARY CONFERENCE PROGRAM Monday 22 February Session 1: Electronic Commerce Experimenting with electronic commerce on the PalmPilot Neil Daswani, Dan Boneh (Stanford, U.S.A.) Blinding of credit card numbers in the SET protocol Hugo Krawczyk (Technion, Israel) Session 2: Anonymity Control Trustee tokens: Simple and practical anonymous digital coin tracing Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, U.S.A.) A new approach for anonymity control in electronic cash systems Tomas Sander, Amnon Ta-Shma (ICSI, U.S.A.) Session 3: Fraud Management E-cash systems with randomized audit Yacov Yacobi (Microsoft Research, U.S.A.) Assessment of counterfeit transaction detection systems for smart card based ecash Kazuo Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski, Mariusz Kossarski (Mondex International, U.S.A.) Tuesday 23 February Session 4: Invited Speaker Adi Shamir (Weizmann Institute, Israel) Session 5: Public-Key Certificates Reasoning about public-key certification: On bindings between entities and public keys Reto Kohlas, Ueli Maurer (ETH, Switzerland) Online certificate status checking in financial transactions: The case for re-issuance Barbara Fox, Brian LaMacchia (Microsoft, U.S.A.) Online certificate checking: One year later Panel discussion led by Michael Myers (VeriSign, U.S.A.) Wednesday 24 February Session 6: Steganography Playing `hide and seek' with stored keys Adi Shamir (Weizmann Institute, Israel), Nicko van Someren (nCipher, England) On channel capacity and modulation in watermarking of digital still images Markus Breitbach, Hideki Imai (University of Tokyo, Japan) Session 7: Content Distribution Towards making broadcast encryption practical Michel Abdalla (U.C. San Diego), Yuval Shavitt and Avishai Wool (Bell Labs, U.S.A.) Conditional access concepts and principles David Kravitz and David Goldschlag (Divx, U.S.A.) Fair use, intellectual property, and the information economy Panel discussion led by Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs, U.S.A.) Thursday 25 February Session 8: Anonymity Mechanisms Anonymous authentication of membership in dynamic groups Stuart Schecter (Harvard), Todd Parnell, Alexander Hartemink (MIT, U.S.A.) Some open issues and new directions in group signatures Giuseppe Ateniese (Universita di Genova, Italy), Gene Tsudik (USC ISI, U.S.A.) Session 9: Auctions and Markets Anonymous investing: Hiding the identities of stockholders Philip MacKenzie (Bell Labs, U.S.A.), Jeffrey Sorensen (IBM Research, U.S.A.) Fair on-line auctions without special trusted parties Stuart Stubblebine (AT&T Labs, U.S.A.), Paul Syverson (Naval Research Lab, U.S.A.) Session 10: Distributed Cryptography "Dynamic Fault"-robust cryptosystems meet organizational needs for dynamic control Yair Frankel and Moti Yung (CertCo, U.S.A.) Improved magic ink signatures using hints Markus Jakobsson (Bell Labs, U.S.A.), Joy Muller (Gutenberg University, Germany) RUMP SESSION In addition to the regular conference program, a rump session will be held on the evening of Tuesday 23 February to provide an opportunity for less formal presentations. Although the rump session will be organized during the conference itself, advance proposals may be submitted by email. Rump session contributions will not appear in the conference proceedings. Send rump session contributions to: Matt Blaze email: mab at research.att.com EXHIBITION An exhibition will be held in conjunction with the technical program, with product displays, demonstrations, and presentations of a business-oriented nature. Scientific sessions are primarily scheduled for the mornings and exhibition sessions for the afternoons. CONFERENCE VENUE The conference will be held at Chandeliers, the conference facility of the InterIsland Hotel, which is on Road Bay, near Sandy Ground Village, in the South Hill section of Anguilla. The conference will have TCP/IP internet access. Shuttle service between the conference and the Mariners hotel will be available. REGISTRATION Registration can be done via the web at URL http://fc99.ai/. The fee for the conference, which covers all conference materials and events (including preproceedings, final proceedings, attendance at scientific sessions, and breakfast and lunch each day of the conference), is: $850 regular registration $350 academic registration $150 student registration An additional $50 fee applies to registrations for which payment is received after January 1, 1999. A $100 discount ($50 for academic and student registrations) is available to participants who pay their registration fee by electronic money. Payment may be made by credit card, bank transfer, electronic money, or cash. STIPENDS A limited number of stipends to help defray the costs of attendance may be available to full-time students with a paper accepted for presentation at the conference. If you would like to apply for a stipend, please contact the General Chair at the email address listed below. HOTEL ACCOMODATION The conference hotel is not recommended except to those seeking budget accomodations. The recommended hotel is Mariners, where a block reservation has been made. To reserve a room, please call the hotel at +1 (809) 497-2671 and mention that you will be attending FC99. Information about other hotels is available at URL http://fc99.ai. WELCOME RECEPTION A welcome reception will be held from 6:30pm to 8:00pm on Monday, February 22, 1999, the evening of the first day of the conference. GENERAL INFORMATION Visas Visas are not required for citizens of most American and European countries. If you are uncertain about whether you need a visa, contact the local British consulate for information. Getting to Anguilla >From North America, Anguilla is usually reached via San Juan (Puerto Rico). From Europe, the best connections are via St. Maarten/St. Martin (from Amsterdam or Paris), or Antigua (from London). St. Martin is very close to Anguilla and is connected by ferry as well as by plane. Local Transportation The simplest way to get around Anguilla is to rent a car. You will need to buy an Anguilla drivers license, but this is a formality. Taxis are also available. Another possibility is to hitch rides from local residents, who are eager to provide them and will often stop to offer rides unsolicited. Transportation will be provided at specific times between Mariners and the InterIsland hotel. Weather Expect temperatures in the 20's or 30's Celsius, 70's or 80's Fahrenheit. There is often a strong wind, with cloudbursts that quickly blow over. Dress code for the conference is shorts and T-shirt. Money The local currency is the Eastern Caribbean dollar (EC$), with an exchange rate of approximately EC$2.7/US$1, but many goods and services in Anguilla, particularly those aimed primarily at tourists (such as restaurants and hotels) are priced in US dollars. US dollars are freely tradable everywhere on the island, so there is no need to obtain EC dollars before arrival. PROGRAM COMMITTEE Joan Feigenbaum, AT&T Labs Yair Frankel, CertCo Matthew Franklin, Xerox PARC David Goldschlag, Divx Markus Jakobsson, Bell Labs Ari Juels, RSA Labs Arjen Lenstra, Citibank Clifford Neuman, Univ. Southern California Berry Schoenmakers, Digicash Jacques Stern, ENS Yacov Yacobi, Microsoft Bennet Yee, U.C. San Diego Program Chair: Matthew Franklin email: franklin at parc.xerox.com ORGANIZING COMMITTEE General Chair: Rafael Hirschfeld email: ray at unipay.nl Local Arrangements Chair: Vincent Cate email: vince at offshore.ai SPONSORS FC99 is sponsored by: nCipher Corporation e-gold Transnational Hansa Bank & Trust Company Offshore Information Services If you are interested in sponsoring FC99, please contact the General Chair at the email address listed above. For further information, please see the main FC99 conference web page at URL http://fc99.ai/. From nobody at anon.olymp.org Tue Dec 15 03:52:55 1998 From: nobody at anon.olymp.org (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:52:55 +0800 Subject: spy cell organization Message-ID: <7ea12ca5e8c550cb3fb28bcb021cdcd8@anonymous> This article is reprinted from Full Disclosure. Copyright (c) 1986 Capitol Information Association. All rights reserved. Permission is hereby granted to reprint this article providing this message is included in its entirety. Full Disclosure, Box 8275-CI3, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48107. $15/yr. The Central Intelligence Agency like many revoluntionary organizations (including the Russian KGB) organize their agent networks on a "cell" system, with small groups who meet and carry out specific activities. The small groups have very few connections with the rest of the organization. Typically, the connections between cells will involve only one person in each cell. See sample organizational chart prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency for use in Nicaragua by the "Freedom Commandos" (reprinted from Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare, the CIA's Nicaragua manual). When this structure is used and a member of a cell is discovered and forced to talk, he can only inform on members of his own cell. If he was the person with a connection to another cell it is possible that other cell will also be compromised, but only after the connection is traced. However, the tracing procedure is very slow, giving the organization time to regroup. Although the tracing of the cell structure is very slow, intelligence information can be passed to the main organization quickly. The main problem with such a cell structure is that the messages which pass through many cells can get grabled and since the cells have great autonomy they sometimes work at cross purposes. The CIA extends the cell system to include Police Departments, Labor Unions, Student Associations, Medical Associations, Reporters/Editors etc. These cells are created by recruiting (or placing) an agent within the organization. The placement of the agent would depend on the main purpose of infiltrating the organization: information or control. Usually, most of the people in the "organization" cells don't know that they are working for the Central Intelligence Agency. In addition, the CIA controls numerous "private" corporations. Usually, only a few of the top officers are aware of the CIA connection. The corporations conduct normal business operations, and are also available to provide services for the CIA whenever necessary. A top-secret memorandum from Brigadier General Edward Lansdale to General Maxwell Taylor published in The Pentagon Papers, described "unconventional warfare resources in Southeast Asia" as follows: CAT [Civil Air Transport] is a commerical air line engaged in scheduled and nonscheduled air operations throughout the Far East, with headquarters and large maintenance facilities in Taiwan. CAT, a CIA proprietary [corporation], provides air logistical support under commerical air cover to most CIA and other U.S. Government Agencies' requirements. CAT supports covert and clandestine air operations by providing trained and experienced personnel, procurement of supplies and equipment through covert commerical channels, and the maintenance of a fairly large inventory of transport and other type aircraft under both Chinat [Chinese Nationalist] and U.S. registry. CAT has demonstrated its capabilities on numerous occasions to meet all types of contingency or long-term covert air requirements in support of U.S. objectives. During the last ten years, it has had some notable achievements, including support of the Chinese Nationalist withdrawal from the mainland, air drop support to the French at Dien Bien Phu, complete logistical and tactical air support for the Indonesian operation, air lifts of refugees from North Vietnam, more than 200 overflights of Mainland China and Tibet, and extensive air support in Laos during the current crisis... When the goal is to control the organization, the agent would be in a powerful place, like a Sergeant in a Police Department. This would enable the CIA to make use of the Police Department resources, computer data banks, officers, etc. The police officers might perform surveillance on a target for the Sergeant, not knowing that they were really working for the CIA. According to Philip Agee/1, "Thousands of policemen all over the world, for instance, are shadowing people for the CIA without knowing it. They think they're working for their own police departments, when, in fact, their chief may be a CIA agent who's sending them out on CIA jobs and turning their information over to his CIA control". Agents in Labor Unions can encourage strikes to cause economic difficulties when the CIA wants to stir up political problems in foreign countries. Reporters and editors can be used to plant propaganda in the press or have information withheld when its in the CIA's best interest not to have it printed/2. When the goal is information collection the target organization would more likely be other intelligence services, medical or technology associations. The agent would be placed so that he would have access to as much information as possible. This could be a communications or mail clerk, etc. The CIA also targets banks for infiltration. They are good organizations to provide cover for CIA personnel in foreign countries. The bank can provide necessary accounts in bogus names. They can also provide faked account balances so that background checks would out come out positive. Banks are also used for funding mechanisms. The Bank of Boston was used for such purposes by the CIA in Brazil/1. When the cells aren't aware that they're working for the CIA, or think they're working for someone else, they can be put to other devious uses. For example, if the CIA controlled a cell which thought it worked for the PLO, they could send it on a terrorist mission with the intent that they be caught. This would have a two fold advantage for the CIA, first, the PLO would be blamed (providing a good opportunity for the U.S. government to expouse propaganda against the PLO), and secondly, it would allow the CIA to commit a terrorist attack with extremely little risk of exposure -- to achieve a greater level of interference in the affairs of foreign governments. The CIA can also use cells within an organization which aren't aware of their connection to the CIA for less devious purposes. For examples, they can make public statement which have the effect of alienating their supporters. When one section makes offensive public statements, major disruptions can occur within the organization. #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Tue Dec 15 04:26:25 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:26:25 +0800 Subject: Forced DNA Collection Message-ID: <91372205409340@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Eric Cordian writes: >Top Story on AP... > >NEW YORK (AP) -- Despite objections from civil libertarians, the city's >police commissioner proposed Monday to take a DNA sample along with the >fingerprints of everyone arrested. > >Commissioner Howard Safir said the test would solve crimes and help curb >repeat offenders. ``The innocents have nothing to fear ... only if you are >guilty should you worry about DNA testing,'' he said. The Commissioner messed up the quote, it's actually: "I am returning to punish the guilty; the innocent have nothing to fear" - Lucius Cornelius Sulla, 90BC, just before he massacred the innocent en masse. Peter. From nobody at seclab.com Tue Dec 15 05:06:31 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:06:31 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812151225.NAA04157@rogue.seclab.com> "No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5: "The Long, Twilight Struggle" #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Tue Dec 15 05:09:27 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:09:27 +0800 Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar Message-ID: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous> Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk wrote: >The idea would be to exchange nothing while make it appear to be exchanging >information of real importance. OK so this will be just like any managment >memo but you must get my drift. There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 15 06:04:57 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:04:57 +0800 Subject: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant (fwd) Message-ID: <199812151343.HAA07259@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:13:22 +0000 > From: Ian Briggs > Subject: Re: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant > >Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a > >censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury > >nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per > >the various samples. > > Has it occured to anyone that if Congress votes for censure, we will have > the fastest rulling by the Supreme Court that censure is unconstitutional > in the history of the U.S.? How's it going to get there? The ex_president certainly won't appeal (and face removal from office) and since Congress passed it they likely won't appeal. Besides the Constitution says that Congress must stop at removal from office and barring from future offices. It is clearly within their power to simply slap his hand or write him a bad report card. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmorris at intercode.com.au Tue Dec 15 06:25:37 1998 From: jmorris at intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:25:37 +0800 Subject: Steganography ? In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Mixmaster wrote: > There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" > which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military > classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the > Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA. I imagine they(tm) would have countermeasures for this kind of thing, given that once they catch a keyword, they know it's source, and have some idea of the kinds of patterns which are likely to be real communications. The Web site probably went straight into a junk filter, which would make it an ideal place to post your secrets from then on :-) - James. From holist at elender.hu Tue Dec 15 06:36:55 1998 From: holist at elender.hu (holist) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:36:55 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812151359.OAA05737@mail.elender.hu> Tim May wrote: >Clearly the Wassenaar folks will be so influenced by a few thousands >computer users withdrawing from the Net for one frigging day that they will >rethink their Orwellian plans and will admit their crimes in an orgy of >self-criticism. Like the Irony. But. I striked (or is it stroke?). Largely as practice - not checking my e-mail for a continuous 24 hours was a major spiritual trial. In return, I discovered a whole range of alternative ways of spending evenings. You may have heard that in several countries in Europe, telephone strikes by the public were successful in bringing telephone prices down radically. Similar strikes by interenet users were also successful in obtaining special deals, such as *flat rate local calls* (a brand new buzzword in the hereabouts), at least on internet calls. What I mean to say is there's a place for a strike. >The _only_ motivation was to induce journalists to give the think a few >column inches, if even that. "Hundreds of geeks cut their noses off to >spite their faces...details on page 75." Well, just imagine those one-day strikes becoming a kind of craze on the internet. Be honest now, you could do with one day a week when you simply avoided the frizzy screen, perhaps even two (heard about two-day week-ends, pal? When I went to school in seventies Hungary, we were allowed off every second Saturday as a great favour!) People could use their leisure-time, their time off-line, as capital, just by timing it with a little care! Boycott-brokerage! You'd be borrowing the muscle of the entire network: after all, they'd not be kind to anyone who somehow or other pissed customers off enough to drop network traffic by 10 percent? Exporting PGP within minutes of its release...now _that's_ a meaningful action! (And one which Cypherpunks continue to be good at.) How meaningful exactly? How do you know who gets it? The truly valuable work is the creation of the social structures wherein such exportation could be truly meaningful. I don't see a lot of that (perhaps you'll smirk and say they hid themselves too well). It is quite clear to me that educating the public is imperative: if people haven't got a clue as to what strong cryptography is, etc. then they're not going to remember something as foreign as Wassenaar even if it is on the evening news. But surruptitiously spreading PGP to other countries doesn't seem to do a great deal of that. What does? Hacker activities that are illegal and dangerous and probably difficult, too, have obvious potential. But I think there must also be legal options. comments, please Let's leave the "National Solidarity Against Racist Policies" crapola to the lefties. --Tim May From mib at io.com Tue Dec 15 06:59:16 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:59:16 +0800 Subject: Steganography ? In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous> Message-ID: <19981215080946.B15984@io.com> On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 12:39:32AM +1100, James Morris wrote: > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Mixmaster wrote: > > There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" > > which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military > > classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the > > Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA. > > I imagine they(tm) would have countermeasures for this kind of thing, > given that once they catch a keyword, they know it's source, and have some > idea of the kinds of patterns which are likely to be real communications. > > The Web site probably went straight into a junk filter, which would make > it an ideal place to post your secrets from then on :-) Unless that's exactly what they want us to think! - d. From mib at io.com Tue Dec 15 07:24:39 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:24:39 +0800 Subject: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous> Message-ID: <19981215082520.A17023@io.com> On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:02:00AM -0800, Mixmaster wrote: > There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" > which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military > classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the > Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA. The All Seeing Eye What I propose, as a potential prank, is to include the following phrases in signature files on messages for a while. I'm sure the DoD will be annoyed. It's a bit long, so ignore if you want to. Chance ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Throwing sand in the All-Seeing Eye by Paul McGinnis (original article posted April 24, 1994) (this is an article about my plan to have fun with paranoid people in the US government) I've often wondered if various entities of the US government monitor the public messages in newsgroups such as this or monitor unencrypted electronic mail. I've worked in the communications industry since 1987 and I know how easy it is to monitor digital communications -- in fact, it is often necessary to monitor data communications to find problems in the hardware or software. There have been rumors that NSA can scan international links for keywords like "MX missile" or "Stealth bomber". It's very easy to set up this kind of filter program -- for instance, if you mention Kibo in a Usenet public message, he will respond. With that in mind, I'd like to propose an experiment (maybe prank is a better description...). The following is a list of phrases that are put at the beginning of classified files by the US government. They are taken from Department of Defense manual DOD 5220.22-M and Title 32, Section 2001 Code of Federal Regulations. Note: comments are placed between square brackets, i.e. [this is a comment]. My experiment is to see what happens if you start putting some of these at the beginning of your Internet messages... primary markings TOP SECRET (TS) [markings shown in parentheses are accepted abbreviations. For example, you could just put (TS) on a document, instead of TOP SECRET] SECRET (S) CONFIDENTIAL (C) additional markings SENSITIVE COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION [very secret intelligence information] SCI DISSEMINATION AND EXTRACTION OF INFORMATION CONTROLLED BY ORIGINATOR [this marking, also written as ORCON, is used on information that clearly identifies a US intelligence source or method] ORCON WARNING NOTICE - INTELLIGENCE SOURCES OR METHODS INVOLVED [this marking is used on information that could identify an intelligence source or method] WNINTEL SINGLE INTEGRATED OPERATIONAL PLAN - EXTREMELY SENSITIVE INFORMATION [US nuclear war fighting plans] SIOP-ESI CRITICAL NUCLEAR WEAPON DESIGN INFORMATION CNWDI RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. [used for nuclear secrets that are below CNWDI] FORMERLY RESTRICTED DATA - Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. Handle as RESTRICTED DATA in foreign dissemination. Section 144b, AEC 1954. [this label applies to nuclear secrets that have been transferred to a military agency from the Department of Energy or its predecessor, the Atomic Energy Commission] LIMITED DISSEMINATION [used on information in Special Access Programs] LIMDIS FOREIGN GOVERNMENT INFORMATION [classified material that originated with a US ally] FGI COSMIC TOP SECRET [NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) document that is classified TOP SECRET] NATO SECRET NATO CONFIDENTIAL NATO RESTRICTED ATOMAL [NATO nuclear secrets] NOT RELEASABLE TO CONTRACTORS/CONSULTANTS [this might be used if the powers-that-be are discussing cancelling a contract with an aerospace company...] NOCONTRACT CAUTION - PROPRIETARY INFORMATION INVOLVED [this marking is used on documents that would prove harmful to a company. For example, it could be marked on TRW documents that weren't supposed to go to Martin Marietta Co.] PROPIN REPRODUCTION REQUIRES APPROVAL OF ORIGINATOR OR HIGHER GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY. CLASSIFIED BY MULTIPLE SOURCES NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS [under no circumstances can this data be released, not even to a US ally] NOFORN [this is the dreaded NOFORN marking that Cliff Stoll jokingly said meant 'No Fornication' in his book "The Cuckoo's Egg"...] From list at listme.com Tue Dec 15 09:07:59 1998 From: list at listme.com (list at listme.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:07:59 +0800 Subject: Is Your Listing A Secret? Message-ID: <199812151605.LAA16345@listme.com> We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $90 and complete the job in 2 business days. Satisfaction is guaranteed! If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search engines and indexes. Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products and services they are looking for. But if your site is not listed, no one will see it. Listings on most of these services are free. 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When we receive your order, we will acknowledge it via return email. We will then input your information into our system. When completed, we will run your promotion, capturing any comments from search engines as we go. We will incorporate these into an HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to your bill. ======================Web Site Promotions====================== ListMe, Inc. 1127 High Ridge Road - Suite 184 Stamford, CT 06905 www.listme.com Ph: 888-205-5347 Fx: 800-321-6966 E-mail: list at listme.com From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Tue Dec 15 10:02:33 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:02:33 +0800 Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate Message-ID: >From : Last updated: 11:00 P.M. Thursday, December 10th, 1998. HIGH SPEED CHASE AND SUSPECT ARREST Cpl. Kevin Grebin/S.D. Highway Patrol: "It was the scanner traffic from his cell phone that the officers picked up that enabled us to capture him." A high speed chase and a cell phone conversation ends with one man in jail... Law enforcement officials from both Iowa and South Dakota chased the man at speeds in excess of 100 miles an hour. He was wanted on a Federal warrant for drug charges. K-S-F-Y's Judeka Drogt and Chief Photographer Lonnie Nichols were there and have the exclusive report. Natural Sound Of Arrest Being Made As It Happened. 32-Year old Tracy Fanning was quietly led out of a farm field 6 miles North of Lennox. Natural Sound Of Officers Going Through Suspect's Pockets And Finding Drugs. Officers found methamphetamine and two knives on him. This was the successful ending to a very long night for these officers. It all began in Iowa... That's where Fanning was spotted by the Iowa State Patrol. The chase began after they learned he was named in a Federal drug warrant. He crossed into South Dakota around 11:30 p.m. Fanning dumped his car at a rural home and ran... As Police followed him they had no idea what they were facing. Cpl. Kevin Grebin/S.D. Highway Patrol: "There was some ammo there that we could not find a weapon to so we weren't sure if he had the weapon on him when he took off." For the next 3 and a half hours Police used dogs and spotlights to search for him. That's not all. Fanning was using a cell phone to call a contact... He was hoping to be picked up... Instead it was the Police that were "picking up" his conversation... And his location. Fanning's last phone call led officers to his hiding place. Fanning was taken to the Minnehaha County Jail at 3:30 Thursday morning. LENNOX CHASE FOLLOW-UP Drug crimes, high speed police chases and manhunts are something many folks think happen only in big cities. But as we've shown you exclusively, that's not the case. K-S-F-Y's Brian DeRoy takes us to the site of this morning's manhunt. Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "You just don't want to go out in those trees in the daytime at least until somebody else could be caught." Betty Vanderwerf is still shaken about all the police cars near her rural Lennox home. Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "It makes you feel like you don't even want to take the dog out for a walk after dark, and you just want to keep your doors locked." Back where police finally caught up with Tracy Fanning...it was only after quite a long search... The suspect was running for a long time including back over in an area near Betty Vanderwerf's house. They located Fanning just behind some trees is where Betty Vanderwerf lives. Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "Hopefully you don't think he's a killer out on the run, he's just getting away from authorities for his problem." Things are quiet in downtown Lennox. But the talk in the grocery store is how close the armed suspect was to town. Verg Musch had his doors unlocked Wednesday night. Verg Musch/Lennox Resident: "Grew up in the country and from there into a small town like this, I would imagine most of the people don't." Well, maybe not. Brian DeRoy/Dakota First News: "How many of you lock your doors at night, raise your hands...most of you." Lennox Resident #1: "We just always do, I don't know, always have." Lennox Resident #2: "I'm on the highway and I'm just afraid if I'm alone at night." Back outside town, Betty won't be taking country living for granted anymore. Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "It just kind of goes to show when you go to bed at night, lock your doors." A reality no matter what your address. Lennox is still a pretty sleepy place. The town has only three full-time Police officers. So was it really intercepted cell phone traffic on a police scanner, or did they get his location from the cell phone company? #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} > >From: believer at telepath.com >Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate >Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:49:06 -0600 >To: believer at telepath.com > >Source: USA Today >http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctd698.htm > >10/22/98- Updated 12:08 PM ET > The Nation's Homepage > > Cell phone tapping stirs debate > > WASHINGTON -- Law enforcement officials say they need to > know where a suspected criminal is when he makes a cellular > telephone call. Federal regulators are proposing to give them the > capability to find out. > ... From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 15 10:11:33 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:11:33 +0800 Subject: Holist comments In-Reply-To: <199812151359.OAA05737@mail.elender.hu> Message-ID: (Note: Please insert a Subject: line if your reader deletes the existing subject. And please don't keep using "cypherpunks at toad.com," as that ceased to be the list address a long time ago.) At 5:59 AM -0800 12/15/98, holist wrote: >Well, just imagine those one-day strikes becoming a kind of craze on the >internet. >Be honest now, you could do with one day a week when you simply avoided the >frizzy screen, perhaps even two (heard about two-day week-ends, pal? When I >went to school in seventies Hungary, we were allowed off every second >Saturday as a great favour!) > >People could use their leisure-time, their time off-line, as capital, just >by timing it with a little care! Boycott-brokerage! You'd be borrowing the >muscle of the entire network: after all, they'd not be kind to anyone who >somehow or other pissed customers off enough to drop network traffic by 10 >percent? Now you're moralizing that we should use the Net less. A rehash of the old "some of us have a life" cliche. If you wish to be off the Net once a week, go for it. Just don't confuse this with either having a life or making a politically interesting point. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Tue Dec 15 10:26:30 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:26:30 +0800 Subject: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?] Message-ID: Someone using the name Carlos Gomes [GomesC at netsolve.net] wrote: > [...] > There were several ideas floating around: a) detach > from the net and from work b) create a signed letter of > disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_ > loosely organized burst of DoS against select online > targets from widely distributed sources. > All valid forms of protests (when properly organized > and executed) all with varying forms of impact and > visibility. For the record, I think option c) could be > a valid and effective form of active protest. It is a > form which has not been used in support of the cpunks' > agenda (or many agenda's for that matter) to date and > one that merits a review. > [...] > regards, > C.G. A DoS (Denial of Service) action is a really, really, really bad idea. It's both illegal and counterproductive. It's the sort of thing I would expect to hear from an 'agent provocateur' bent on discrediting critics of government policy, by casting them as malicous hackers. We went through this once before. Back when I was getting the DES challenges going, some one proposed that the target should be a live bank transaction (I think in Germany). I argued strenuously against such a move, and in favor of a specifically created target This goal was fullfilled when I got RSA to set up and sponsor the Symmetric Key Challenges. If a group of people coordinated in any way to mount a DoS attack, the effects would include: 1. Lump anyone taking an anti-Wassenaar position together with a gang of destructive hackers. This would be a tremendous setback for the Good Guys, and play straight into the hands of the those who would remove freedom. 2. Anyone engaging in such an attack would face real-world LEA investigation for computer hacking. 3. Anyone who discusses such an attack with anyone who actually goes out and does it (other than to argue against it, as I am doing) could be charged with conspiracy. [So, if any of you are idiotic enough to do this, do the rest of us a favor, and keep your discussion to private channels and *off* the mailing lists. I *don't* want to know.] 4. Most importantly, It Would Be Wrong. As long as legal channels exist to right the errors of government policy, they should be used. That governments stoop to dishonest, deceitful, and unconstitutional activities (or activities 'legal' only in the Clintonian sense) does not justify others abandoning the moral high ground. I don't think a strike is going to fly, either. What might work is a Web page blackout, similar to that done for the original CDA nonsense. Peter Trei ptrei at securitydynamics.com [Disclaimer: In this message, I speak for myself only.] From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 15 11:02:02 1998 From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:02:02 +0800 Subject: Reminder: key changes at notatla Message-ID: <199812151744.RAA00598@notatla.demon.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 New mix keys at notatla already in use. Old ones expire 21Dec1998. mccain mccain at notatla.demon.co.uk 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 2.0.4b41 MC - -----Begin Mix Key----- 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 258 AASe8KR46cRA75Jk4YMcE32gpS1uqAveFpRxPVg7 qATY4aPIyVM40QHa/OrHdVc8twmKMNemcdZNCpdb EDCtaVXLalJ7njbiLs8NMAEVP7WxMQP+1swjvHpR qP1ikuvy89iNpTbDtl9uf11PNeXiWclrCyFkvS6m 4cXFPskXoa4xWQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB - -----End Mix Key----- teatwo teatwo at notatla.demon.co.uk 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 2.0.4b41 MC - -----Begin Mix Key----- 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 258 AATVHyCqv2SGgaEbY0HVnBONNsSQwElFCdvSyxhq cGL4FZ5A1LGBAGNN+aHnfw0X8hvNsFB7EcmBsZ1v fUt64xRG5gy2+A3rMlad36iZfqrNBKncGh+Y/uEx nb+hTyANZNlHsUdAfo+lozx0xoB070e6K3rkgxDG GytOW9VjDTVR3QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB - -----End Mix Key----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.0i Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNmrcCTROc55Xv6voEQIs4ACeOat7f/0Kn5gLPazrp6rd+gGgsdEAn0nJ 4jhmxQQTvZWFg7d+BxM7WHHR =pz5z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant at notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From measl at mfn.org Tue Dec 15 11:32:47 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:32:47 +0800 Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security Partners Program In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981215170136.0098ad60@smtp.datafellows.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Marita Nasman-Repo Blathered: :Helsinki, Finland, December 15, 1998-- Data Fellows, the global leader in :developing data security software solutions, has been invited to join the :Microsoft Security Partners Program. "Invited"? You mean they finally accepted your application, right? :The Microsoft Security Partners Program :(http://www.microsoft.com/security/partners) provides customers with the :tools and information they need to establish, test and maintain effective :information security for their computing infrastructure. By providing real-life examples of how NOT to implement security practices. By simply purchasing these failed products (at only *slightly* exhorbitant prices), so can learn by example: see for yourself just how easy it is to completely botch a security directive. Witness how thoroughly you can mangle password encryption. Learn what major design flaws *really* look like! :The program brings :together software manufacturers, security consultants and security :trainers, making it even easier for customers to provide robust security in :their Microsoft Windows NT operating system-based networks. Just as soon as it becomes available? Oh, BTW, when *will* that be??? :Three Data Fellows products are included in the Microsoft Security Partners :Program. I'm sorry. But don't worry, if you keep working on it, you'll be able to sell it to a *real* vendor someday... :F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection :and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption, Very unobtrusive, I'm sure! Does the attacker even know it's there? : all :integrated into a policy-based management architecture. Hmmm... Somebody's been playing with their buzzword-generator again :) :F-Secure VPN+ :provides a software-based, IPSec/IKE VPN solution scaleable for large :corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks. Was that IPSec/IKE, or IPSec-like? I vote for the latter. It's just like IPSec, but without wasting all those nasty cycles on dumb things - like encryption: it's *so much* more user-friendly when it doesnt [further] slow the speed of new window open/closes... : F-Secure :FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time :encryption directly into the Windows NT-based file system. Could be, we already know that Micro$loth has *no clue* when it comes to these things (Right Paul???)... :"Microsoft is pleased to include Data Fellows as part of its Security :Partners Program," said Karan Khanna, Windows NT Security Product Manager :at Microsoft Corp. Of course you are. Micro$loth would be pleased to welcome Joseph Stalin into the Security Partners Program. : "This program will help our mutual customers develop and :deploy secure solutions built on the Windows NT platform." Just as soon as they can get Windows NT to run faster than a 6809 with 1k of 512ns RAM and a single parallel port for IO ;-) :"The relationship with Microsoft shows Data Fellows� commitment to improve :the native security of standalone and networked computers with a :comprehensive, centrally managed suite of security services," said Risto :Siilasmaa, president and CEO of Data Fellows. You're *that* worried about Micro$loth's current offerings, huh? Personally, I'd let them fend for themselves, but... :"Data Fellows is committed to :providing globally available And this *IS* your *FIRST* priority, isn't it? :seamless security for Windows users; security :that is strong yet easy to manage and economical." Great! Let me know when it's available! :Data Fellows is one of the world�s leading developers of data security :products. Really? Who decided that? Do you have any research to back up this awe-inspiring claim? : The company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data :security and cryptography software products for corporate computer :networks. That's only because most of the private networks already know better. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 15 12:13:03 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:13:03 +0800 Subject: WEAK3-EX -- A Layman's 56-bit Data Encryption Algorithm Message-ID: <3676B5B3.E37D80C@stud.uni-muenchen.de> In the previous products of my WEAK series of data encryption algorithms I have very strongly exploited the possibility of using arbitrarily long keys. Since this conflicts with the recent requirement of using 56-bit keys, a new program, WEAK3-EX, has been designed specifically for users that can only use 56-bit encryption keys. The design draws upon various techniques that have been accumulated in the course of the development of the previous WEAK3-E. Besides employing constant length 56-bit keys, a new feature that is introduced in WEAK3-EX is a user choosable scaling factor for the initialization time of the algorithm. Normally the initialization time of crypto algorithms are small and is for obvious reasons to be reduced as far as technically possible. In fact, the initialization time of almost all known encryption algorithms is negligible compared to the proper record processing time. Our algorithm, which contains author's compound PRNG, is however an exception to the rule. For, depending on the number of the constituent generators of the compound PRNG used, this can under circumstances indeed attain a non-trivial value. This is till present a necessary evil of our WEAK3-E which now fortunately in the special case of key length restriction (with the obvious accompanying unfavourable strength reduction effect) can be turned into a virtue of our new WEAK3-EX. In fact, if the (variable) parameters to be chosen by the user (in particular the number of rounds) of our algorithm are adequate, brute force would be the only feasible method of attack. Now the average time for brute force is equal to the time of running a single encryption/decryption process multiplied by one half of the size of the key space. If the initialization time of the algorithm is increased, the time for brute forcing correspondingly increases so that through suitable choice of the said scaling factor it can reach practically infeasible value for analysis without however on the other hand rendering the total processing time of the user (which of course also augments) to amounts entirely inacceptable for him. (The multiplying factor of one half of the key space is the leverage we exploit here.) Technically, the scaling factor determines the number of pseudo-random numbers retrieved from the shuffling buffer (of Bays and Duncan) that are to be combined into one pseudo-random number through the addition mod 1 operation (device of Wichmann and Hill) for subsequent utilization in building up the constituent generators of author's compound PRNG. The larger the scaling factor, the longer it will take to build up the compound PRNG. The multiple-seed standard PRNG employed in WEAK3-E is abandoned in WEAK3-EX in order to comply with the 56-bit key restriction. In its place is a standard PRNG that consists of two internal (single-seed) PRNGs which are activated alternatingly and which each accepts a seed of 28 bits, totalling 56 bits. An implementation in Fortran 90 is given in http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper13 Both source and a binary executable file for PC can be downloaded via my main Web page. I wish to thank CWL and ZFS for suggesting the use of the scaling factor. Constructive critiques, comments and suggestions for improvements are sincerely solicited. M. K. Shen P.S. For space and obvious reasons, I plan to remove the code and binaries of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E from my Web page this Friday, leaving in future WEAK3-EX the single encryption software accessible. From tony at secapl.com Tue Dec 15 12:36:16 1998 From: tony at secapl.com (tony at secapl.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:36:16 +0800 Subject: First "Crypto Refugee"? In-Reply-To: <199809040233.TAA29401@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: > the shakespeare analysis seems like a good idea to > me. I am not aware of literate papers that try to > analyze it with frequency analysis instead of > just vague assertions by the authors. there is > a huge set of literature that tries to link of > the writings of shakespeare to someone else, but > as far as I know not much of it is computer analysis. This was what brought William Freidman to Riverside, where he both created monographs on cryptanalysis and met his wife. (described in detail in Kahn.) From frissell at panix.com Tue Dec 15 13:39:20 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:39:20 +0800 Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate Message-ID: <199812152028.PAA20269@mail1.panix.com> Cellphones are not going to make great tracking devices in the future. I was just visiting the UK and checking out how the cellphone industry has been developing there. "Pay as you call" phones are the fastest-growing segment of the industry. You can buy a phone for as little as 49 GBP ($83). Cellnet sells one for 69 GBP ($117) that works on the Continent as well. You can buy the cards to "feed" these phones from hundreds of UK vendors. Throw away phones are becoming popular in the US as well. As prices decline towards the $20 level, it will be increasingly difficult for the authorities to track the huge number of anonymously purchased disposable phones. DCF "Did you hear the one about the Chinese contractor who promised Burlington Coat Factory jackets trimmed with cainus latrans but substituted canis familiaris instead?" From ben at algroup.co.uk Tue Dec 15 13:56:02 1998 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:56:02 +0800 Subject: WEAK3-EX -- A Layman's 56-bit Data Encryption Algorithm In-Reply-To: <3676B5B3.E37D80C@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <3676CD09.27818DBE@algroup.co.uk> Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > P.S. For space and obvious reasons, I plan to remove the code and > binaries of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E from my Web page this > Friday, leaving in future WEAK3-EX the single encryption software > accessible. Hmm. The "obvious reasons" being one or more of the following: a) You think people shouldn't be allowed strong crypto b) You think the US shouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting laws changed, we should just obey their whims voluntarily c) You are on the NSA's payroll Cheers, Ben. -- Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/ and Technical Director|Email: ben at algroup.co.uk | A.L. Digital Ltd, |Apache-SSL author http://www.apache-ssl.org/ London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/ From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Tue Dec 15 13:58:51 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:58:51 +0800 Subject: NZ government to legalise black bag jobs Message-ID: <91375565311002@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> 15 December 1998 GOVERNMENT TO INTRODUCE AMENDMENT TO NZSIS LEGISLATION The Government will introduce an amendment to legislation this week covering the operations of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service, and will also seek to appeal part of the Choudry decision of the Court of Appeal, Prime Minister Jenny Shipley said today. "In Mr Choudry's case, the Court of Appeal pointed out the need for Parliament to provide express authority for the NZSIS to enter private premises, without permission, to intercept communications." "It is vital that the NZSIS is able to carry out its functions properly in gathering intelligence on security threats to New Zealand. In some rare instances, this may require covert entry to private property, which the amendment to the legislation will allow. The existing law had been presumed to allow this to occur. The Court has said if this is the intention, it should be made explicit as is the case in Canada, the United Kingdom and Australia." [...] Mrs Shipley said the Government would also seek leave to appeal against one aspect of the Court of Appeal's decision in Mr Choudry's case. The issue concerns the procedure the Court should follow when the Government asserts it is necessary, in the course of litigation against the Crown, to withhold from the Court, and other parties, access to information, in order to protect national security interests. Commentary: Choudry was a protestor against the 1994 APEC meeting held in Auckland (a bunch of foreign politicians turned up to talk for a week, shutting down the city centre in a way that wasn't equalled until Mercury Energy earlier this year). At the time the SIS's mandate had been widened to include "economic security", bringing the APEC meeting into its sphere of interest. As part of the APEC brouhaha, they carried out a black bag job on Choudry and got caught, causing the government some embarassment. The current bill, rushed through under urgency just before parliament shuts down (which means it gets rubberstamped with no scrutiny or debate), would legalise these things in the future, just in time for the next big politicians powwow next year (which has already lead to the army invading the university as part of some training exercise which involved a simulated search for dissidents). The second part is more worrying, what it'll do is remove any provision for judicial review of dubious actions by the government by allowing them to claim national security concerns as a blanket excuse for whatever they do. Certainly in the Choudry case the real concern was job security, not national security. Peter. From jf_avon at citenet.net Tue Dec 15 15:38:13 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:38:13 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Anne McLellan's voters reject gun registration... Message-ID: <199812152242.RAA05466@cti06.citenet.net> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Received: from bernie.compusmart.ab.ca (bernie.compusmart.ab.ca [199.185.131.34]) > by cti13.citenet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22703 > for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:02:25 -0500 (EST) >Received: from remote322.compusmart.ab.ca ([206.75.84.147]:1035 "EHLO compusmart.ab.ca") by mail.compusmart.ab.ca with ESMTP id <409327-12752>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:52:54 -0700 >Message-ID: <3676A210.9C6687B8 at compusmart.ab.ca> >Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:53:20 -0700 >From: Peter Kearns >Organization: KEARNS & McMURCHY >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: Canadian Firearms Digest , > "Anne Mclellan (Parliament)" , > Bernard Johnston , > Bob Burgess , Bob Lickacz , > Brad Browne , > Dale Blue , > David Tomlinson , > Don Davies , > Donna Ferollie , > Frank Szojka , > Frank Williamson , > Garry Breitkreutz , > Gordon Hitchen , > Jean-Francois Avon , > Jim Hinter , > "John St. Amour" , > LE QUEBECOIS LIBRE , > Manuel De La Paz , > Mark Hughes , > Pierre Bourque , > Lorne Gunter , > Shafer Parker , > Pat & Mike Ryan , > Paul Bennett , > Paul Rogan , Peekay , > Peter Cronhelm , > Peter Figol , Ken Epp , > Preston Manning , > Jack Ramsay , Deb Grey , > Monty Solberg , > Raheem Jaffer , > "Robin Leech \"SPIDERMAN\"" , > Tony Bernardo >Subject: Anne McLellan's voters reject gun registration... >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-UIDL: ddaaa1595eab8ceea7515c82b013fcca > "The Edmonton Examiner" a local community newspaper, ran an editorial entitled "Gun lobby has a point." In it they accused the "pro-gun" faction of posturing and paranoia, but then went on to say the so called "lobby" is correct in it's assessment of the registry. The paper said, "the government has failed to show how gun registration will reduce crime, which is the sole reason for registration." The newspaper also asked how would knowing that people own rifles deter crimes, while "the new law does nothing to deter the easy access to guns smuggled in from the U.S." Another statement follows, "and of course the criminal element has no interest in registering guns." The editor makes one last telling remark, "So exactly what is the point? Essentially, it is to gather information. All governments love information, the more the better. But there is no proof at all that registering guns deters criminal activity." Sounds like an editor sounding off..... Right? What follows indicates the writer likes to do a little investigative journalism.... The editor then conducted a telephone poll asking the question "ARE YOU IN FAVOUR OF THE GOVERNMENTS GUN REGISTRY PROGRAM? (Remember folks, the constituents of "Idle Annie" had their say in this poll.) The results were 76% AGAINST the registration program with 24% in favour..... Oh dear, Annie..... You'd better hope they change their minds come election time...... Comments from those opposed to the registry, "I have never owned a gun, but I resent this program which smacks of a police state." Another said, "I have yet to undertstand how having the gun registered that killed those students in Montreal registered would have prevented that terrible deed." The last and most telling, "It is simply a way to enable the confiscation of firearms in order to prevent any insurrection or revolt against a government that may be imposing oppressive measures." The usual comments equating registering cars and guns, and the "only one life" bleat came from the 24% who actually liked the registry. One even said "Gun owners have to wait hours to get their guns, instead of minutes. Get over it you big whiny crybabies." (Kinda makes you question the maturity of that one!) The polls are turning in our favour, and they are doing so because we are educating the public. The more they know about the registration process and the costs, the less they like the idea. We have accomplished this without breaking any laws, and without the need to indulge in civil disobedience. If we break (even unjust) laws and engage in publicised acts of civil disobedience then we will lose. The newsmedia will then (rightly) portray us as a bunch of right wing fanatics, and elements of the lunatic fringe. The NFA has proved we can be heard, and that the public is seeing things our way without the need to engage in silly demonstrations. Let's see how far we can go within the law, during the next four years. regards, Peter Kearns NFA Communications Simon says: "Well what about it Annie? What do your spin doctors have to say about a poll that included the people who voted in the last election in Edmonton West? (Weren't you elected to represent the views of the people who voted for you?)........... ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 15 15:43:04 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:43:04 +0800 Subject: DARPA's Active Network page Message-ID: I saw an article on this in InfoWorld. NAI/TIS and DARPA talking about putting self-switching packets into the network. I don't see this as too far off from packets purchasing their passage across the network with micromoney of some kind. All spookiness of the current research principals aside, of course... Cheers, Robert Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:12:39 -0500 To: Digital Bearer Settlement List From: Robert Hettinga Subject: Darpa's Active Network page Sender: List-Subscribe: Here's ARPA's Active Network Page: Cheers, RAH ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 15 15:47:10 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:47:10 +0800 Subject: ARMCHAIR Commando List(Cypherpunks@cyberpass.net) Message-ID: <199812152252.XAA26125@replay.com> "I CANT PARTICIPATE IN THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE I DIDNT GET ENOUGH NOTICE OR ITS TOO INCONVENIENT OR THEY ARE USING LEFTIST PROTEST TECHNIQUES" EXPORTING PGP WITHIN MINUTES OF ITS RELEASE NOW THAT WOULD IMPRESS ME... (BEEN THERE DONE THAT!) NOW I am trying to shake the apathy from all of you.. Its so much easier to talk about revolution than participating or contributing... Talking about revolution does NOT make it happen magically.. I suspect the revolution will die given the above anon From billp at nmol.com Tue Dec 15 16:37:42 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:37:42 +0800 Subject: crypto boredom Message-ID: <3676F8D0.52EE@nmol.com> Tuesday 12/15/98 4:37 PM John Young Seeing http://jya.com/kea-errata.htm makes me feel good that I am not doing crypto work anymore. I talked with Kent Parsons this afternoon at Holman's computer. Parsons was the department manager who was going to make his claim-to- fame at Sandia on the Forth code we developed. "We aren't getting the recognition [for Forth] we deserve." was a Parsons quote. I told Parsons that the Forth code we developed is executing all over the world. Jane Ellson was one of Parson's secretaries when we did the Forth 8085 and 8051 development in the weapons components department. Ellson is now Sandia president Paul Robinson�s secretary. I need to revise my NSA-funded and Sandia-approved Forth book for the 80c32 and windows. http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2 I saw http://jya.com/intel120898.htm. NSA's Forth expert Donald Simard talked to me about putting Forth on a x86 PC as a stand-alone secure operating system. Putting a secure RELIABLE operating system on a Pentium-class processor will be a MAJOR task. Perhaps more than just building a rad hard version of the chip. Parsons also led the effort at Sandia to build the 8051 as a rad hard chip at Sandia to replace Sandia's rad hard 8085 chip SET. Forth works great for weapons programmers. We need to get this unfortunate matter settled so that we can ALL move on to more constructive projects. Later bill From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Tue Dec 15 16:45:00 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:45:00 +0800 Subject: HAS The Revolution Died?? Message-ID: "I CANT PARTICIPATE IN THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE I DIDNT GET ENOUGH NOTICE OR ITS TOO INCONVENIENT OR THEY ARE USING LEFTIST PROTEST TECHNIQUES" EXPORTING PGP WITHIN MINUTES OF ITS RELEASE NOW THAT WOULD IMPRESS ME... (BEEN THERE DONE THAT!) NOW I am trying to shake the apathy from all of you.. Its so much easier to talk about revolution than participating or contributing... Talking about revolution does NOT make it happen magically.. I suspect the revolution will die given the above anon From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 15 16:49:41 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:49:41 +0800 Subject: DARPA's Active Network page (fwd) Message-ID: <199812160006.SAA09381@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:50:56 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: DARPA's Active Network page > I saw an article on this in InfoWorld. NAI/TIS and DARPA talking about > putting self-switching packets into the network. I don't see this as too > far off from packets purchasing their passage across the network with > micromoney of some kind. How does the packet know what is a good price or a bad price as it makes each hop? Whose processor is it using to run its program to evaluate the costs? Who pays for that processor cost on a node that isn't selected? Who has access to the audit trail? How does a reliable copy get back to the originator? How does it do this in an anonymous network? ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 15 17:14:43 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:14:43 +0800 Subject: NSA Electronic Sheriff Message-ID: <199812160043.TAA18739@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> >From a new report: "Cybercrime, Cyberterrrorism, Cyberwarfare" Tomorrow's frontline commanders will be drawn from the ranks of computer wizards. The sandal culture is challenging the wingtips. The National Security Agency's (NSA) new electronic sheriff, responsible for protecting NSA's ground stations, is a 23-year-old GS-14. In the civilian sector, "techies" have moved into senior management positions. http://jya.com/cyber-trip.htm From holovacs at idt.net Tue Dec 15 17:30:34 1998 From: holovacs at idt.net (Jay Holovacs) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:30:34 +0800 Subject: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981215195143.006d7300@pop3.idt.net> At 08:25 AM 12/15/98 -0600, mib wrote: > >On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:02:00AM -0800, Mixmaster wrote: >> There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" >> which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military >> classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the >> Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA. > Here are some more suggestions (I didn't make this list; all of these supposedly were on watch actual lists of different types----"thanks" to the police & spook organizations for doing the research) > >Act Now; ACT-UP; Action for Animals; Adrian 17; African Students Org./S.F. >State; African Network; African >National Reparations Org.; African People's Socialist Party; African People's >Solidarity Comm.; African >Students Org.; Africans United for Progress; AFSCME Local 3218 (Vice Pres.); >AFSCME Local 3508; Alexandria >Assoc. of Human Rights Advocacy; All Peoples Congress; Alliance for Philippine >Concerns; Alliance to Stop First >Strike; Alliance to Stop Police Abuse; Allied Printing Trades Council; >Alternative Information Center; >Amer-I-Can; American Civil Liberties Union; American Indian Center; American >Indian Movement; American Indian >Student Org.; American Muslim Museum; Americans for Peace Now; Anarchist >Collective; ANC Meeting; _Ang >Katipuan_; Anti-Apartheid Comm./AFSCME; Anti-Militarism Comm.; Anti-Racist >Action; April 19th Comm. Against >Nazis; Arab Baath Socialist Party; Arab Lesbian Network; Armenian National >Comm.; Armenian Peoples Movement; >Arms Control Research Center; Artists and Videomakers Against the War; Artists >and Writers Out Loud; Artists >Television Access; Asian Law Caucus; Audio Archives; Author of Measure J; >Babylon Burning; Back Country Action >Network; Bad Cop/No Donut; Barricada Internacional; Bay Area Anti-Racist >Action; Bay Area Coalition for Our >Reproductive Rights; Bay Area Friends of the Christic Institute; Bay Area >Jewish Task Force on Cent. Am.; Bay >Area Natl. Conf. of Black Lawyers; Bay Area Peace Council; Bay Area Peace Navy; >Bay Area Reporter; Bay Area >Times; Bay Area Vets Against War in Mid. East; Beebee Memorial C.M.E. Temple; >Ben Linder Construction Brigade; >Big Mountain Native People's Support; Bir Zeit Univ. Instructor; Black >Consciousness Movement of Azania; Black >Freedom Fighters Coalition; Black Men United for Change; Black Studies >Department/S.F. State; Black United >Front; Boricuan Popular Army for Puerto Rican Independence; Boycott Coke; >Boycott Shell Comm.; Breakthrough; >Brigada Antonio Maceo; Brothers of African Descent; Bulletin in Defense of Marxism; >Calendar Magazine (Gay); California Voice; Campaign Against Apartheid; Campus >Peace Comm.; Canadians for >Justice in the Middle East; Capp Street Center; Capp Street Foundation; >Carpenters Local 22; Casa El Salvador; >Casa El Salvador Mailing List; Center for Constitutional Rights; Center for >Democratic Renewal; Center for >Investigative Reporting; Center for Middle East Studies; Center for the Study >of the Americas; Cent. Amer. >Research Institute; Chair: Chicano Studies (U.C. Berkeley); Chop >>Representative Government; Coalition of Black >Trade Unionists; Commission of Inquiry; Comm. Against Lockheed D-5; Comm. for >Academic Freedom in >Israeli-Occupied Territories; Comm. for Equality and Justice; Comm. for Freedom >in Argentina; Comm. for Peace >and Democracy in Iran; Comm. for Perm. Israeli-Palestinian Peace; CISPES; >Cistur; Committee to Free Geronimo >Pratt; Comm. to Support the Revolution in Peru; Communist Party U.S.A.; >Communist Workers Party; Communist >Youth Brigade; Community-Labor Coalition for Social & Econ. Justice; Community >United Against Violence; >Continuing the Peace Dialogue; Contra Watch Newsletter; Copwatch; Council for >the National Interest; Council on >Foreign Relations; CounterSpy; Covert Action Information Bulletin; Covert >Action; Cuba Resource Group; Cuba >Information Project; Delta Sigma Beta; Democratic Society of America; >Democratic Workers Party; Dennis Banks >Defense Comm.; Diablo Valley Peace Center; Direct Action Against Racism; >Doghouse Newsletter; Downside Records; >Dykes and Gay Emergency Response; Earth Island Institute; East Bay Women for >Peace; El Centro de la Raza; El >Tecolote; Emergency Coalit. for Palestinian Rights; Emergency Coalition to End >War; Emergency Comm. to Stop >Flag Amendment; Endorser of Proposition W; Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting; >Fighting Back; Filipino East Bay >Network; Filipino Organization Comm.; FMLN-FDR West Coast Representative; Food >First; Food Not Bombs; Free S.A. >Labor Comm.; Freedom for S.A. Refugees Campaign; Freedom for S.A. Refugees >Center; Freedom Rising Africa >Solidarity Comm.; Freedom Road Socialist Org.; Freedom Socialist Party; Friends >of Nicaragua; Friends of Yesh >Gvul; Frontline; Frontline Managing Editor; Gay American Indians; Gay and >Lesbian Labor Alliance; Global >Exchange; Global Options; Green Giant Frozen Food Workers Comm.; Greenpeace; >Group for the Critical Study of >Colonialism; Guardian; Guatemala News and Information Bureau; Harvey Milk Club; >Hotel and Restaurant Employees >Local 2; ILWU Local 6, President; ILWU Local 10; INCAR; In These Times; >Independent Grocers Assn.; Info. >Network Against War and Fascism; Information Services on Latin America; >Instituto del Pueblo; Interfaith Center >on Corporate Accountability; Interfaith Task Force on Cent. Amer.; >Inter-Hemispheric Education Resource Ctr.; >Intl. Campaign to Free Geronimo Pratt; Internatl. Comm. Against Racism; >Internatl. Indian Treaty Council; >Internatl. Jewish Peace Union; Internatl. League for Human Rights/N. Amer. >Chapter; Internatl. Socialist Org.; >Internationalist Workers Party; Irish National Aid; Irish Northern Aid; Irish >Republican Socialist Comm.; >Israeli Foreign Affairs; Israelis Against Occupation; Japanese-American >Citizens League; Jewish Comm. on the >Middle East; John Brown Anti-Klan Comm.; KPOO Radio; KQED-TV Board of Directors; KUNA; >Labor Comm. on the Middle East; Labor for Peace; Labor Video; LAGAL; La Raza >Coalition of Berkeley; La Raza >Unida; Latin American Support Comm.; Lavender Mafia; Lawyers Comm. on Cent. >Amer.; League of Filipino Students; >Leonard Peltier Alliance Group; Lesbian Agenda for Action; Lesbians and Gays >Against Intervention; Liberation >Support Movement; Libros Sin Fronteras; Line Of March; L.A. Coalition Against >Intervention in the Middle East; >L.A. Observer; L.A. Student Coalition; >MADRE; Malcolm X Grassroots Movement; Mandela Reception Comm.; Maoist >Internationalist Movement; Marazul >Tours; Mariposa Peace Network; Marxist-Leninist Party; Media Review; Middle >East Children's Alliance; Middle >East Comm. for National Conference of Black Lawyers; Middle East Peace Network; >Midwest Labor Institute; >Mobilization Support Group; Modern Times Bookstore; Mother Jones; Movimiento de >Agrupacion Popular; Movimiento >Estudiantil Chicano; >NABET Local 51/Executive Board; NALC Local 14; National Alliance of Third World >Journalists; NAACP; National >Call to Action; Natl. Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays; Natl. Comm. Against >Repressive Legislation; >National Conference of Black Lawyers; National Forum of S.A.; National Midweek; >National Org. of African >Students in N. Am.; National Rainbow Coalition; National Response Comm./NBAU; >National Student Cent. Am. Action >Network; National Student Lobby; National Union of Farmers; Network of >Arab-American Students; Network in >Solidarity with Chile; New Afrikan Peoples Org.; New Alliance Newspaper; New >Alliance Party; New Americas >Press; New Jewish Agenda; New Movement in Solidarity with Puerto Rican >Independentistas; Nicaragua Cultural >Center; Nicaragua Information Center; Nicaragua Information Center Bulletin; >Nicaragua Interfaith Comm. Action; >Nicaragua Network News; No Apologies/No Regrets; No Business As Usual; No >Justice, No Peace; North Bay >Anti-Racist Action; North Star; Northern California Ecumenical Council; Now >Magazine, Toronto (Canada); >Nuremberg Action; Oakland Education Association; O.C. Coalition for Peace in >the Middle East; OCAW; OCAW Local >8149; October 6 Justice Project; Oregon Philippines Concerns Comm.; Out of >Control Comm.; Outrage; >Pacifica Foundation; Pakistan Democratic Comm.; Pan African Movement of the >U.S.; Partido Socialista Chileno; >Partido Socialista Puertorriqueno; Partisan Defense Comm.; Patrice Lumumba >Coalition; Paul Robeson Friendship >Society; Peace and Conflict Studies; Peace and Freedom Comm.; Peace and Freedom >Party; Peace and Justice Comm. >- School Board; Peace and Solidarity Alliance; Peace and Solidarity Comm.; >Peace Cafe; Peace Research Center; >People Against Racist Terror; Peoples Anti-War Mobilization; Peoples >Architecture Collective; Peoples Law >Office; Peoples Park; Peoples Video; Peoples World; Pershing Plowshares; >Philippine Organizing Comm.; >Philippine Resource Center; Philippines Human Rights Lobby; Pledge of >Resistance; Plumbers and Fitters Local >393; Portland Cent. Am. Solidarity Comm.; Prison News Service; Project Impact; >Project National Interest; >Public Eye; >Queer Nation; Quinn Defense; Radical Film Collective; Radical Women; Rainbow >Coalition; Rainbow Lobby; Refuse >and Resist; Republic of New Afrika; Revolutionary Books; Revolutionary >Communist Party; Revolutionary Communist >Youth Brigade; Revolutionary Worker; Revolutionary Workers League; Richmond >Education Assn.; Roots Against War; >San Fernando Valley Peace Coalition; San Francisco Bay Guardian; S.F. Coalition >of Labor Union Women; S.F. >Labor Council/AFL-CIO; San Francisco Sentinel; S.F. Univ. Labor Studies; San >Francisco Weekly; S.F. Women for >Peace; SANE/FREEZE; Sardaraba; Science for Nicaragua; SEIU Local 535; SEIU >Local 616; Serbian Unity Congress; >Shell Boycott Comm.; Simon Wiesenthal Center; Sister City Assn; Socialist >Action; Socialist Party Political >Org.; Socialist Workers Party; Society of In'Ash El-U.S.A.; SOHRI Study Group >(U.C. Berkeley); Solidarity; S.A. >Forum; S.A. Freedom Through Education Foundation; S.A. Internatl. Student >Congress; South African Workers Org.; >South Bay Nicaragua Solidarity Comm.; So. African Liberation Support Comm.; >Southern African Media Center; >Spartacus Youth League; Spartacist League; Stevens, Hinds & White, Attorneys; >Stop the U.S. War Machine Action >Network; Student Cltn. Against Apartheid and Racism; Student Pugwash; Students >Against Intervention; Students >Against Intervention in Cent. Am.; Students for Peace in the Persian Gulf; >SWAPO; SWAPO Meeting; >Tass News Agency; Teamsters Local 921, S.F. Teamsters for a Democratic Union; >Technica; The Black Scholar; The >Data Center; The Dazen-I Foundation; The Irishman; The Nuclear Resister; Third >World Resources; Toronto >Anti-Intervention Coalition; Trustee, IAM Local 565 (Sunnyvale); >Ubiquitous; Unified Against Genocide; Union del Barrio; Union of Democratic >Filipinos; Union Publications; >United Auto Workers; United Auto Workers, Local 119; United Colors; United Farm >Workers; United Front Against >Fascism; U.S. Anti-Apartheid Newsletter; U.S. China Review; U.S. Comm. for >Friendship with the GDR; U.S.-Cuba >Labor Exchange; U.S.-Grenada Friendship Society; U.S. Out of S.A. Network; U.S. >Peace Council; U.S.-USSR >Friendship Society of S.F.; U.S.A. Movement Banning Apartheid; Univ. of Calif., >Berkeley; UTU Local 1730; >Vanguard Public Foundation; Venceremos Brigade; Vietnam Veterans Action; >Vietnam News Agency; Villa Zapata >Workers Comm.; Voice of the Uprising; >Washington Office on Africa; WBAI-FM (Pacifica Foundation) New York; Weatherman >Underground; Witness for S.A.; >Woman, Inc.; Women Against U.S. Intervention; Women in Black; Women of Color >Coalition Center; Women of Color >Resource Project; Women's Intl. League for Peace and Freedom; Workers World Party; >Yes on W Comm.; Young Koreans United; Young Koreans United of S.F. >Arab-American Democratic Club; Arab Book Center; Arab People's Coalition; Arab >Relief Fund of Lebanon; Arab >Studies Quarterly/Middle East Research and Information Project; Arab- American >Univ. Graduates; Arabic Book >Center; Bethlehem Assn.; Black Muslims; Comm. for a Democratic Palestine; Comm. >of Correspondence; Council of >Arab-American Orgs.; Dem. Front for the Liberation of Palestine; Democratic >Palestinian Youth; Department of >Near Eastern Studies; El Fatah; Family Sponsorship Project; General Union of >Palestinian Students; >Inst. of African-American Studies; Iranian Students Assn.; Iraqi Intelligence >Officer; Islamic Jihad; Islamic >Society of Orange County; Israeli Civil Right Assn.; JIFNA Association; >Khilafah; Law in the Service of Man; >Masjid Al-Islam; Masqid Al-Saff Mosque; Middle East Justice Network; Muslim >Mutadhakkirun Assn.; Muslim >Students Assn.; Muslim Students Union; Nation of Islam; National Assn. of >Arab-Americans; National Lawyers >Guild; November 29th Comm.; Occupied Land Fund; Palestine American Youth; >Palestine Arab Club; Palestine Arab >Fund; Palestine Democratic Youth Org.; Palestine Human Rights Campaign; >Palestine Solidarity Comm.; Palestine >Women's Org.; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; Progressive Muslim >Alliance; Sacred House of >Islam; Union of Palestinian Women's Association; ANC A Movement Banning >Apartheid; African National Congress; >All African Peoples Revolutionary Party; All-African Student Conference; >Alternative Education (RSA) (SACHED); >Anglican Church Bd. of Social Responsibility; Anti-Apartheid Comm.; Anti- >Apartheid L.A.; Apartheid Boycott >Campaign; Art Against Apartheid; Artists Against Apartheid; Bay Area Free S.A. >Movement; Berkeley >Anti-Apartheid Network; Canicor Research/S.A. Forum; Democratic Socialists of >America; Dennis Brutus Defense >Comm.; Evangelical Lutheran Church/S.A.; Free Moses Mayekiso Committee; >Journalist LA Times (in S.A.); >National Namibia Concerns; Pan African Congress; Pan Africanist Congress; >Pan-Africa Congress of Azania; >Prairie Fire Organizing Comm.; S.A. Ecumenical Task Force; S.F. Anti-Apartheid >Comm.; South African Student >Congress; Southern Africa Media Center; Univ. of Calif. Divestment Coalition Here's some keywords to get you started: Act Now; ACT-UP; Action for Animals; Adrian 17; African Students Org./S.F. State; African Network; African National Reparations Org.; African People's Socialist Party; African People's Solidarity Comm.; African Students Org.; Africans United for Progress; AFSCME Local 3218 (Vice Pres.); AFSCME Local 3508; Alexandria Assoc. of Human Rights Advocacy; All Peoples Congress; Alliance for Philippine Concerns; Alliance to Stop First Strike; Alliance to Stop Police Abuse; Allied Printing Trades Council; Alternative Information Center; Amer-I-Can; American Civil Liberties Union; American Indian Center; American Indian Movement; American Indian Student Org.; American Muslim Museum; Americans for Peace Now; Anarchist Collective; ANC Meeting; _Ang Katipuan_; Anti-Apartheid Comm./AFSCME; Anti-Militarism Comm.; Anti-Racist Action; April 19th Comm. Against Nazis; Arab Baath Socialist Party; Arab Lesbian Network; Armenian National Comm.; Armenian Peoples Movement; Arms Control Research Center; Artists and Videomakers Against the War; Artists and Writers Out Loud; Artists Television Access; Asian Law Caucus; Audio Archives; Author of Measure J; Babylon Burning; Back Country Action Network; Bad Cop/No Donut; Barricada Internacional; Bay Area Anti-Racist Action; Bay Area Coalition for Our Reproductive Rights; Bay Area Friends of the Christic Institute; Bay Area Jewish Task Force on Cent. Am.; Bay Area Natl. Conf. of Black Lawyers; Bay Area Peace Council; Bay Area Peace Navy; Bay Area Reporter; Bay Area Times; Bay Area Vets Against War in Mid. East; Beebee Memorial C.M.E. Temple; Ben Linder Construction Brigade; Big Mountain Native People's Support; Bir Zeit Univ. Instructor; Black Consciousness Movement of Azania; Black Freedom Fighters Coalition; Black Men United for Change; Black Studies Department/S.F. State; Black United Front; Boricuan Popular Army for Puerto Rican Independence; Boycott Coke; Boycott Shell Comm.; Breakthrough; Brigada Antonio Maceo; Brothers of African Descent; Bulletin in Defense of Marxism; Calendar Magazine (Gay); California Voice; Campaign Against Apartheid; Campus Peace Comm.; Canadians for Justice in the Middle East; Capp Street Center; Capp Street Foundation; Carpenters Local 22; Casa El Salvador; Casa El Salvador Mailing List; Center for Constitutional Rights; Center for Democratic Renewal; Center for Investigative Reporting; Center for Middle East Studies; Center for the Study of the Americas; Cent. Amer. Research Institute; Chair: Chicano Studies (U.C. Berkeley); Chop >Representative Government; Coalition of Black Trade Unionists; Commission of Inquiry; Comm. Against Lockheed D-5; Comm. for Academic Freedom in Israeli-Occupied Territories; Comm. for Equality and Justice; Comm. for Freedom in Argentina; Comm. for Peace and Democracy in Iran; Comm. for Perm. Israeli-Palestinian Peace; CISPES; Cistur; Committee to Free Geronimo Pratt; Comm. to Support the Revolution in Peru; Communist Party U.S.A.; Communist Workers Party; Communist Youth Brigade; Community-Labor Coalition for Social & Econ. Justice; Community United Against Violence; Continuing the Peace Dialogue; Contra Watch Newsletter; Copwatch; Council for the National Interest; Council on Foreign Relations; CounterSpy; Covert Action Information Bulletin; Covert Action; Cuba Resource Group; Cuba Information Project; Delta Sigma Beta; Democratic Society of America; Democratic Workers Party; Dennis Banks Defense Comm.; Diablo Valley Peace Center; Direct Action Against Racism; Doghouse Newsletter; Downside Records; Dykes and Gay Emergency Response; Earth Island Institute; East Bay Women for Peace; El Centro de la Raza; El Tecolote; Emergency Coalit. for Palestinian Rights; Emergency Coalition to End War; Emergency Comm. to Stop Flag Amendment; Endorser of Proposition W; Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting; Fighting Back; Filipino East Bay Network; Filipino Organization Comm.; FMLN-FDR West Coast Representative; Food First; Food Not Bombs; Free S.A. Labor Comm.; Freedom for S.A. Refugees Campaign; Freedom for S.A. Refugees Center; Freedom Rising Africa Solidarity Comm.; Freedom Road Socialist Org.; Freedom Socialist Party; Friends of Nicaragua; Friends of Yesh Gvul; Frontline; Frontline Managing Editor; Gay American Indians; Gay and Lesbian Labor Alliance; Global Exchange; Global Options; Green Giant Frozen Food Workers Comm.; Greenpeace; Group for the Critical Study of Colonialism; Guardian; Guatemala News and Information Bureau; Harvey Milk Club; Hotel and Restaurant Employees Local 2; ILWU Local 6, President; ILWU Local 10; INCAR; In These Times; Independent Grocers Assn.; Info. Network Against War and Fascism; Information Services on Latin America; Instituto del Pueblo; Interfaith Center on Corporate Accountability; Interfaith Task Force on Cent. Amer.; Inter-Hemispheric Education Resource Ctr.; Intl. Campaign to Free Geronimo Pratt; Internatl. Comm. Against Racism; Internatl. Indian Treaty Council; Internatl. Jewish Peace Union; Internatl. League for Human Rights/N. Amer. Chapter; Internatl. Socialist Org.; Internationalist Workers Party; Irish National Aid; Irish Northern Aid; Irish Republican Socialist Comm.; Israeli Foreign Affairs; Israelis Against Occupation; Japanese-American Citizens League; Jewish Comm. on the Middle East; John Brown Anti-Klan Comm.; KPOO Radio; KQED-TV Board of Directors; KUNA; Labor Comm. on the Middle East; Labor for Peace; Labor Video; LAGAL; La Raza Coalition of Berkeley; La Raza Unida; Latin American Support Comm.; Lavender Mafia; Lawyers Comm. on Cent. Amer.; League of Filipino Students; Leonard Peltier Alliance Group; Lesbian Agenda for Action; Lesbians and Gays Against Intervention; Liberation Support Movement; Libros Sin Fronteras; Line Of March; L.A. Coalition Against Intervention in the Middle East; L.A. Observer; L.A. Student Coalition; MADRE; Malcolm X Grassroots Movement; Mandela Reception Comm.; Maoist Internationalist Movement; Marazul Tours; Mariposa Peace Network; Marxist-Leninist Party; Media Review; Middle East Children's Alliance; Middle East Comm. for National Conference of Black Lawyers; Middle East Peace Network; Midwest Labor Institute; Mobilization Support Group; Modern Times Bookstore; Mother Jones; Movimiento de Agrupacion Popular; Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano; NABET Local 51/Executive Board; NALC Local 14; National Alliance of Third World Journalists; NAACP; National Call to Action; Natl. Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays; Natl. Comm. Against Repressive Legislation; National Conference of Black Lawyers; National Forum of S.A.; National Midweek; National Org. of African Students in N. Am.; National Rainbow Coalition; National Response Comm./NBAU; National Student Cent. Am. Action Network; National Student Lobby; National Union of Farmers; Network of Arab-American Students; Network in Solidarity with Chile; New Afrikan Peoples Org.; New Alliance Newspaper; New Alliance Party; New Americas Press; New Jewish Agenda; New Movement in Solidarity with Puerto Rican Independentistas; Nicaragua Cultural Center; Nicaragua Information Center; Nicaragua Information Center Bulletin; Nicaragua Interfaith Comm. Action; Nicaragua Network News; No Apologies/No Regrets; No Business As Usual; No Justice, No Peace; North Bay Anti-Racist Action; North Star; Northern California Ecumenical Council; Now Magazine, Toronto (Canada); Nuremberg Action; Oakland Education Association; O.C. Coalition for Peace in the Middle East; OCAW; OCAW Local 8149; October 6 Justice Project; Oregon Philippines Concerns Comm.; Out of Control Comm.; Outrage; Pacifica Foundation; Pakistan Democratic Comm.; Pan African Movement of the U.S.; Partido Socialista Chileno; Partido Socialista Puertorriqueno; Partisan Defense Comm.; Patrice Lumumba Coalition; Paul Robeson Friendship Society; Peace and Conflict Studies; Peace and Freedom Comm.; Peace and Freedom Party; Peace and Justice Comm. - School Board; Peace and Solidarity Alliance; Peace and Solidarity Comm.; Peace Cafe; Peace Research Center; People Against Racist Terror; Peoples Anti-War Mobilization; Peoples Architecture Collective; Peoples Law Office; Peoples Park; Peoples Video; Peoples World; Pershing Plowshares; Philippine Organizing Comm.; Philippine Resource Center; Philippines Human Rights Lobby; Pledge of Resistance; Plumbers and Fitters Local 393; Portland Cent. Am. Solidarity Comm.; Prison News Service; Project Impact; Project National Interest; Public Eye; Queer Nation; Quinn Defense; Radical Film Collective; Radical Women; Rainbow Coalition; Rainbow Lobby; Refuse and Resist; Republic of New Afrika; Revolutionary Books; Revolutionary Communist Party; Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade; Revolutionary Worker; Revolutionary Workers League; Richmond Education Assn.; Roots Against War; San Fernando Valley Peace Coalition; San Francisco Bay Guardian; S.F. Coalition of Labor Union Women; S.F. Labor Council/AFL-CIO; San Francisco Sentinel; S.F. Univ. Labor Studies; San Francisco Weekly; S.F. Women for Peace; SANE/FREEZE; Sardaraba; Science for Nicaragua; SEIU Local 535; SEIU Local 616; Serbian Unity Congress; Shell Boycott Comm.; Simon Wiesenthal Center; Sister City Assn; Socialist Action; Socialist Party Political Org.; Socialist Workers Party; Society of In'Ash El-U.S.A.; SOHRI Study Group (U.C. Berkeley); Solidarity; S.A. Forum; S.A. Freedom Through Education Foundation; S.A. Internatl. Student Congress; South African Workers Org.; South Bay Nicaragua Solidarity Comm.; So. African Liberation Support Comm.; Southern African Media Center; Spartacus Youth League; Spartacist League; Stevens, Hinds & White, Attorneys; Stop the U.S. War Machine Action Network; Student Cltn. Against Apartheid and Racism; Student Pugwash; Students Against Intervention; Students Against Intervention in Cent. Am.; Students for Peace in the Persian Gulf; SWAPO; SWAPO Meeting; Tass News Agency; Teamsters Local 921, S.F. Teamsters for a Democratic Union; Technica; The Black Scholar; The Data Center; The Dazen-I Foundation; The Irishman; The Nuclear Resister; Third World Resources; Toronto Anti-Intervention Coalition; Trustee, IAM Local 565 (Sunnyvale); Ubiquitous; Unified Against Genocide; Union del Barrio; Union of Democratic Filipinos; Union Publications; United Auto Workers; United Auto Workers, Local 119; United Colors; United Farm Workers; United Front Against Fascism; U.S. Anti-Apartheid Newsletter; U.S. China Review; U.S. Comm. for Friendship with the GDR; U.S.-Cuba Labor Exchange; U.S.-Grenada Friendship Society; U.S. Out of S.A. Network; U.S. Peace Council; U.S.-USSR Friendship Society of S.F.; U.S.A. Movement Banning Apartheid; Univ. of Calif., Berkeley; UTU Local 1730; Vanguard Public Foundation; Venceremos Brigade; Vietnam Veterans Action; Vietnam News Agency; Villa Zapata Workers Comm.; Voice of the Uprising; Washington Office on Africa; WBAI-FM (Pacifica Foundation) New York; Weatherman Underground; Witness for S.A.; Woman, Inc.; Women Against U.S. Intervention; Women in Black; Women of Color Coalition Center; Women of Color Resource Project; Women's Intl. League for Peace and Freedom; Workers World Party; Yes on W Comm.; Young Koreans United; Young Koreans United of S.F. Arab-American Democratic Club; Arab Book Center; Arab People's Coalition; Arab Relief Fund of Lebanon; Arab Studies Quarterly/Middle East Research and Information Project; Arab- American Univ. Graduates; Arabic Book Center; Bethlehem Assn.; Black Muslims; Comm. for a Democratic Palestine; Comm. of Correspondence; Council of Arab-American Orgs.; Dem. Front for the Liberation of Palestine; Democratic Palestinian Youth; Department of Near Eastern Studies; El Fatah; Family Sponsorship Project; General Union of Palestinian Students; Inst. of African-American Studies; Iranian Students Assn.; Iraqi Intelligence Officer; Islamic Jihad; Islamic Society of Orange County; Israeli Civil Right Assn.; JIFNA Association; Khilafah; Law in the Service of Man; Masjid Al-Islam; Masqid Al-Saff Mosque; Middle East Justice Network; Muslim Mutadhakkirun Assn.; Muslim Students Assn.; Muslim Students Union; Nation of Islam; National Assn. of Arab-Americans; National Lawyers Guild; November 29th Comm.; Occupied Land Fund; Palestine American Youth; Palestine Arab Club; Palestine Arab Fund; Palestine Democratic Youth Org.; Palestine Human Rights Campaign; Palestine Solidarity Comm.; Palestine Women's Org.; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; Progressive Muslim Alliance; Sacred House of Islam; Union of Palestinian Women's Association; ANC A Movement Banning Apartheid; African National Congress; All African Peoples Revolutionary Party; All-African Student Conference; Alternative Education (RSA) (SACHED); Anglican Church Bd. of Social Responsibility; Anti-Apartheid Comm.; Anti- Apartheid L.A.; Apartheid Boycott Campaign; Art Against Apartheid; Artists Against Apartheid; Bay Area Free S.A. Movement; Berkeley Anti-Apartheid Network; Canicor Research/S.A. Forum; Democratic Socialists of America; Dennis Brutus Defense Comm.; Evangelical Lutheran Church/S.A.; Free Moses Mayekiso Committee; Journalist LA Times (in S.A.); National Namibia Concerns; Pan African Congress; Pan Africanist Congress; Pan-Africa Congress of Azania; Prairie Fire Organizing Comm.; S.A. Ecumenical Task Force; S.F. Anti-Apartheid Comm.; South African Student Congress; Southern Africa Media Center; Univ. of Calif. Divestment Coalition From riburr at shentel.net Tue Dec 15 18:45:35 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:45:35 +0800 Subject: HAS The Revolution Died?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <36771611.ADDE6C67@shentel.net> HyperReal-Anon wrote: > "I CANT PARTICIPATE IN THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE I DIDNT > GET ENOUGH NOTICE OR ITS TOO INCONVENIENT OR THEY > ARE USING LEFTIST PROTEST TECHNIQUES" ... As was diagnosed in the case of Richard M. Nixon, these are the tragic and irreversible symptoms of terminal adult syndrome. Infected are pasture bound. From sales at mymerchantaccount.com Wed Dec 16 11:26:15 1998 From: sales at mymerchantaccount.com (sales@equipmentresource.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:26:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Equipment Resource: December Equipment Update Message-ID: <199812161918.DAA03679@maesgi.mae.cuhk.edu.hk> EQUIPMENT RESOURCE Ph:303-451-8022 Fax:303-451-8747 11184 Huron Ste.12 Northglenn, CO 80234 Equipment Resource wishes you a Happy Holiday! What better way to get ready for a prosperous New Year than to Accelerate Assembly. Increase production floor space by selling your surplus, or add a link on our web site to increase sales. (click on the http links to view equipment. You must be online.) Equipment Resource presents it�s top 10 list to increase production and save money! 1.Westek Formula III Plus. Inline Aqueous Cleaner. Great cleaner, Great Condition. 2.Eubanks 2700 -IV. Wire cut/strip system. With TAB wire marker. Beautiful Shape. 3.Watkins Johnson 18-SMD. Reflow oven. Edge Rail, N2O. Convection. Nice Shape, Nice Price. 4.Quad 100 Pick and Place Systems. Several available. Great start up system. http://www.equipmentresource.com/quad_100_pick.htm 5.Unit Design MDS 100. Drag Solder System. Rebuilt from the frame up. Warranty available. http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/UDMDS.jpg 6.Hepco 8000-1. Axial Cut and Form. Tape feed. Hassle free component prep! http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/Hepco8000-1.JPG 7.Blue M Oven. 1 Cubic foot interior. 38c to 260c. Stabil-Therm Controller. Make an offer. 8.ECD 6300 Batch Washer. PCB Cleaning made easy. No Frills, Nice Price. http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/ECD6300-101398.JPG 9.Cut & Bend. Hand Crank Axial Prep System. Simple efficient way to increase production. http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/cutbend.jpg 10.AMI Presco 1826. Screen Printer. Most under-rated system on the market.= Quality/Low cost Leasing available on all equipment For a complete listing of Equipment, to Sell your Surplus at no Cost, or to take advantage of a Free link to your web page go to .http://www.equipmentresource.com If you know someone who could benefit from our services please forward this to them. If you do not wish to receive equipment updates please reply with remove in the subject line to. All recipients who do not reply to remove will receive further updates. Thank you all; buyers and sellers, friends old and new, and inquirers too for your business and support all thru the year of 1998. We send our sincere wish for a prosperous business year with good health and much happiness to each of you. Sincerely, All of us at Equipment Resource. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 15 19:34:22 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:34:22 +0800 Subject: Distributed Programming with DIPC (fwd) Message-ID: <199812160312.VAA10007@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From owner-sparclinux-outgoing at vger.rutgers.edu Tue Dec 15 20:47:43 1998 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:09:40 -0600 (CST) From: Kamran Karimi To: sparclinux at vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Distributed Programming with DIPC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sparclinux at vger.rutgers.edu Sender: owner-sparclinux at vger.rutgers.edu Precedence: bulk X-Loop: majordomo at vger.rutgers.edu To people interested in distributed programming and clustering under Linux, This is to introduce DIPC (Distributed Inter-Process Communication). DIPC is a software-only solution for very easy distributed programming under the Linux operating system. Here developers design their applications as a group of processes, each possibly running on a different Linux computer, and then use DIPC to _transparently_ exchange data between them. The main objective of the DIPC project is to make distributed programming as much like "normal" programming as possible. DIPC hides itself behind UNIX System V's IPC mechanisms, consisting of Semaphores, Messages, and Shared Memories, and makes them work over a network. This means that DIPC offers, among other things, Transparent Distributed Shared Memory (DSM) with strict consistency: Processes can read from and write to the shared memory with no need for any explicit synchronization! This makes DIPC very different from systems like PVM or MPI. The source code of a DIPC program is nearly identical to a normal UNIX program using System V IPC. Actually, a DIPC program can even run in a Linux computer with no DIPC support; no need for recompilation. System V IPC is widely available in UNIX variants, and is very well documented, meaning that developers may already know the programming interface, or they can learn it very easily, confident that the usefulness of the newly learned material is not tied to the availability of DIPC. This is in sharp contrast to most other distributed programming systems. Using a mainly "shared-memory" programming interface means that the same distributed application can also run on a multi-processor Linux machine at "full speed" DIPC modifies the Linux kerenl in order to offer its excellent degree of transparency. There are no needs for any link libraries, and it can be used from any programming language that allows access to the OS calls. The hardware can consist of a single Linux machine, or a cluster of computers connected to each other by a TCP/IP network. DIPC has been tested on inter-continental WANs and is a heterogeneous system, as it can run on Linux/i386 and Linux/m68k, with both versions being able to talk to each other. (volunteers for porting DIPC to other CPU families are welcome). People intersted in distributed systems can easily and safely try DIPC. After patching a standard Linux kernel, DIPC becomes a configuration option (make config), and can be left out at compile time if desired. When DIPC is compiled in, it can be turned off any time with no need for a reboot. For more more information about DIPC, visit http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc . You can download the package (which includes the sources and the documentation) from the web page, or from ftp://wallybox.cei.net/pub/dipc . A mailing list devoted to discussions about DIPC is addressed at linux-dipc at wallybox.cei.net . Feel free to send your comments and questions here. To view the previous posts to DIPC's mailing list target your browser at http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ml-archive . -Kamran Karimi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe sparclinux" in the body of the message to majordomo at vger.rutgers.edu From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 15 20:21:11 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:21:11 +0800 Subject: First "Crypto Refugee"? In-Reply-To: <199809040233.TAA29401@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: At 11:04 AM -0800 12/15/98, tony at secapl.com wrote: >> the shakespeare analysis seems like a good idea to >> me. I am not aware of literate papers that try to >> analyze it with frequency analysis instead of >> just vague assertions by the authors. there is >> a huge set of literature that tries to link of >> the writings of shakespeare to someone else, but >> as far as I know not much of it is computer analysis. > > This was what brought William Freidman to Riverside, where he both >created monographs on cryptanalysis and met his wife. (described in detail >in Kahn.) And computerized textual analyses of Shakespeare was one of the most publicized applications of the computers in the 60s. I remember reading several stories about this then. And I recall an exhibit on the results of such computerized search, as of around 1968 or so, at the Folger Shakespeare Library in Washington, D.C. (a class outing). As when Detweiler or someone proposed this as a "neat thing for Cypherpunks to do" a couple of years ago, the idea was old before 98% of this list were born. Not saying it's not still an interesting research topic, just that it's a well-established field. And most of the low-hanging fruit has been picked. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From shamrock at netcom.com Tue Dec 15 20:34:58 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:34:58 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update, part II Message-ID: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net> As some of you may be aware of, I am involved with an effort to acquire DigiCash. Allow me therefore to suggest that now is not a good time to attempt to purchase a patent license directly from DigiCash. You would most likely be paying too much. DigiCash has for months now attempted to find a buyer for the company's assets. Due to the expectations on the value of the assets, and differences between this and the offers they've received, the board has turned down these offers, including the first offer by my group. Ultimately, the differences between some of the high expectations the board has, and the actual offers they are receiving will be worked out between higher offers and lower expectations. Until then, DigiCash operates on a post-bankruptcy filing bridge loan. This loan won't last forever. Ultimately, DigiCash will be sold. But nobody wants to wait forever. Not you, not me, not the DigiCash board. The faster DigiCash gets sold to our group, the faster the technology will become available to all interested parties under low cost (and in many cases free) licensing terms. Even if DigiCash should now be willing to sell licenses to generate cash flow or reorganize in some new plan and forestall the inevitable sales of assets a little bit longer, the current DigiCash is unlikely to make the licenses available for as low of a cost as our group will make them available after an acquisition of DigiCash. We are in a position to offer potentially significant cost minimization to any prospective licensee of DigiCash IP. With every additional party committing to our effort, we can reduce the cost per license. Scott of course would be amiss of his fiduciary duty would he not attempt to maximize the financial return to DigiCash. We have no such constraint. I have a lot of respect for Scott and he is trying to do what is best for the DigiCash shareholders and debtholders (As he should). We on the other hand are more focused on what is best for the technology, to ensure it is deployed widely and in all it's various potential uses. The more serious parties join our effort, the faster will we be able to make another bid and the faster the DigiCash board will review and hopefully approve our next offer. Ultimately, everybody will be happy. The creditors will be happy since they get their money, the current executive group at DigiCash will be happy to move on having successfully found a palatable deal, and the licensees will be happy, since they will be able to obtain the IP and options for support and technology development instead of being held in limbo with the present DigiCash situation. And of course the developer community will be happy, since the patents will be available to all, not just to the few to which DigiCash might license the patents to improve their unfortunate cash flow situation. This broad availability will allow the market to validate the technology. No single player, or even small group of players, can make eCash a success. Only an aggressive push by many large, small and medium sized players who are all deploying eCash and blinded private payment systems can. This is one of the many reasons our group has the support of several of the larger banks in the world, banking software/EDI vendors, credit card clearing houses, personal financial/cryptography software vendors, global media corporations, and other players that are required to make eCash and other DigiCash IP derived technologies ubiquitous. Feel free to contact DigiCash directly if you must. We certainly encourage people who are interested in exclusive ownership of the DigiCash IP, and are not interested in opening up the patents or technology to deal directly with them since this is contrary to our goal. But if you are interested in any one part, one use or application or even in all of the parts in a non-exclusive way please make sure to email me first as I believe it will benefit everyone for a lot less money. --Lucky Green I will soon revoke my PGP key 0x375AD924 for administrative reasons. From schneier at counterpane.com Tue Dec 15 20:41:48 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:41:48 +0800 Subject: The Fallacy of Cracking Contests Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981215202538.00a42b90@mail.visi.com> The Fallacy of Cracking Contests Bruce Schneier You see them all the time: "Company X offers $1,000,000 to anyone who can break through their firewall/crack their algorithm/make a fraudulent transaction using their protocol/do whatever." These are cracking contests, and they're supposed to show how strong and secure the target of the contests are. The logic goes something like this: We offered a prize to break the target, and no one did. This means that the target is secure. It doesn't. Contests are a terrible way to demonstrate security. A product/system/protocol/algorithm that has survived a contest unbroken is not obviously more trustworthy than one that has not been the subject of a contest. The best products/systems/protocols/algorithms available today have not been the subjects of any contests, and probably never will be. Contests generally don't produce useful data. There are three basic reasons why this is so. 1. The contests are generally unfair. Cryptanalysis assumes that the attacker knows everything except the secret. He has access to the algorithms and protocols, the source code, everything. He knows the ciphertext and the plaintext. He may even know something about the key. And a cryptanalytic result can be anything. It can be a complete break: a result that breaks the security in a reasonable amount of time. It can be a theoretical break: a result that doesn't work "operationally," but still shows that the security isn't as good as advertised. It can be anything in between. Most cryptanalysis contests have arbitrary rules. They define what the attacker has to work with, and how a successful break looks. Jaws Technologies provided a ciphertext file and, without explaining how their algorithm worked, offered a prize to anyone who could recover the plaintext. This isn't how real cryptanalysis works; if no one wins the contest, it means nothing. Most contests don't disclose the algorithm. And since most cryptanalysts don't have the skills for reverse-engineering (I find it tedious and boring), they never bother analyzing the systems. This is why COMP128, CMEA, ORYX, the Firewire cipher, the DVD cipher, and the Netscape PRNG were all broken within months of their disclosure (despite the fact that some of them have been widely deployed for many years); once the algorithm is revealed, it's easy to see the flaw, but it might take years before someone bothers to reverse-engineer the algorithm and publish it. Contests don't help. (Of course, the above paragraph does not hold true for the military. There are countless examples successful reverse-engineering--VENONA, PURPLE--in the "real" world. But the academic world doesn't work that way, fortunately or unfortunately.) Unfair contests aren't new. Back in the mid-1980s, the authors of an encryption algorithm called FEAL issued a contest. They provided a ciphertext file, and offered a prize to the first person to recover the plaintext. The algorithm has been repeatedly broken by cryptographers, through differential and then linear cryptanalysis and by other statistical attacks. Everyone agrees that the algorithm was badly flawed. Still, no one won the contest. 2. The analysis is not controlled. Contests are random tests. Do ten people, each working 100 hours to win the contest, count as 1000 hours of analysis? Or did they all try the same things? Are they even competent analysts, or are they just random people who heard about the contest and wanted to try their luck? Just because no one wins a contest doesn't mean the target is secure...it just means that no one won. 3. Contest prizes are rarely good incentives. Cryptanalysis of an algorithm, protocol, or system can be a lot of work. People who are good at it are going to do the work for a variety of reasons--money, prestige, boredom--but trying to win a contest is rarely one of them. Contests are viewed in the community with skepticism: most companies that sponsor contests are not known, and people don't believe that they will judge the results fairly. And trying to win a contest is no sure thing: someone could beat you, leaving you nothing to show for your efforts. Cryptanalysts are much better off analyzing systems where they are being paid for their analysis work, or systems for which they can publish a paper explaining their results. Just look at the economics. Taken at a conservative $125 an hour for a competent cryptanalyst, a $10K prize pays for two weeks of work, not enough time to even dig through the code. A $100K prize might be worth a look, but reverse-engineering the product is boring and that's still not enough time to do a thorough job. A prize of $1M starts to become interesting, but most companies can't afford to offer that. And the cryptanalyst has no guarantee of getting paid: he may not find anything, he may get beaten to the attack and lose out to someone else, or the company might not even pay. Why should a cryptanalyst donate his time (and good name) to the company's publicity campaign? Cryptanalysis contests are generally nothing more than a publicity tool. Sponsoring a contest, even a fair one, is no guarantee that people will analyze the target. Surviving a contest is no guarantee that there are no flaws in the target. The true measure of trustworthiness is how much analysis has been done, not whether there was a contest. And analysis is a slow and painful process. People trust cryptographic algorithms (DES, RSA), protocols (Kerberos), and systems (PGP, IPSec) not because of contests, but because all have been subjected to years (decades, even) of peer review and analysis. And they have been analyzed not because of some elusive prize, but because they were either interesting or widely deployed. The analysis of the fifteen AES candidates is going to take several years. There isn't a prize in the world that's going to make the best cryptanalysts drop what they're doing and examine the offerings of Meganet Corporation or RPK Security Inc., two companies that recently offered cracking prizes. It's much more interesting to find flaws in Java, or Windows NT, or cellular telephone security. The above three reasons are generalizations. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. The RSA challenges, both their factoring challenges and their symmetric brute-force challenges, are fair and good contests. These contests are successful not because the prize money is an incentive to factor numbers or build brute-force cracking machines, but because researchers are already interested in factoring and brute-force cracking. The contests simply provide a spotlight for what was already an interesting endeavor. The AES contest, although more a competition than a cryptanalysis contest, is also fair Our Twofish cryptanalysis contest offers a $10K prize for the best negative comments on Twofish that aren't written by the authors. There are no arbitrary definitions of what a winning analysis is. There is no ciphertext to break or keys to recover. We are simply rewarding the most successful cryptanalysis research result, whatever it may be and however successful it is (or is not). Again, the contest is fair because 1) the algorithm is completely specified, 2) there are no arbitrary definition of what winning means, and 3) the algorithm is public domain. Contests, if implemented correctly, can provide useful information and reward particular areas of research. But they are not useful metrics to judge security. I can offer $10K to the first person who successfully breaks into my home and steals a book off my shelf. If no one does so before the contest ends, that doesn't mean my home is secure. Maybe no one with any burgling ability heard about my contest. Maybe they were too busy doing other things. Maybe they weren't able to break into my home, but they figured out how to forge the real-estate title to put the property in their name. Maybe they did break into my home, but took a look around and decided to come back when there was something more valuable than a $10,000 prize at stake. The contest proved nothing. Gene Spafford wrote against hacking contests. http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/old-issues/issue9602 Matt Blaze has too, but I can't find a good URL. ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com From emc at wire.insync.net Tue Dec 15 21:25:28 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:25:28 +0800 Subject: The Fallacy of Cracking Contests In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981215202538.00a42b90@mail.visi.com> Message-ID: <199812160451.WAA09943@wire.insync.net> Bruce Schneier writes: > 3. Contest prizes are rarely good incentives. ... > Just look at the economics. Taken at a conservative $125 an hour for > a competent cryptanalyst, a $10K prize pays for two weeks of work, > not enough time to even dig through the code. A $100K prize might be > worth a look, but reverse-engineering the product is boring and that's > still not enough time to do a thorough job. A prize of $1M starts to > become interesting, but most companies can't afford to offer that. Another point to consider is that a company sponsoring a contest, particularly one which involves one of its products, has a great interest in measuring the state of existing relevant art, and almost no interest at all in directly funding new research leading to the destruction of its cipher. Most such contests have very carefully structured rules, and prizes that are not too large, to sample what current tools and algorithms can do, without single-handedly funding expeditions into unexplored territory. Factoring contests are a good example of this, where you get a few thousand dollars for breaking something slightly larger than the last thing broken, rather than $10 million for inventing the singing and dancing factoring algorithm of the future, and breaking the 500 decimal digit key. > I can offer $10K to the first person who successfully breaks into my > home and steals a book off my shelf. If no one does so before the > contest ends, that doesn't mean my home is secure. Maybe no one with > any burgling ability heard about my contest. Maybe they were too busy > doing other things. Maybe they weren't able to break into my home, > but they figured out how to forge the real-estate title to put the > property in their name. Maybe they did break into my home, but took a > look around and decided to come back when there was something more > valuable than a $10,000 prize at stake. The contest proved nothing. Exactly. Contests do nothing in the absence of prior academic interest in the problem, and even then only serve to spotlight and highlight what already exists. Contests do not drive research, nor do they prove ciphers secure. Still, they're fun. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From EquiAly2 at aol.com Tue Dec 15 22:01:56 1998 From: EquiAly2 at aol.com (EquiAly2 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:01:56 +0800 Subject: !! Wanted Home Product Assemblers !! Message-ID: *****This is a one time Mailing. You will not receive mail from us again.***** Looking for Home Product Assemblers!! How would you like to Assemble Products at Home & get Paid! Choose your own Hours! Be your own Boss! Easy Work! Excellent Pay! Earn Hundreds of Dollars Weekly! Here are just a few examples of the work you will have to choose from: Wooden Products - up to $220.00 Weekly! Hair Accessories - up to $320.00 Weekly! Holiday Crafts - up to $270.00 Weekly! Beaded Accessories - up to $350.00 Weekly! ........Plus many others. There are over 75 Companies to choose from! Why not enjoy the Benefits and Freedom of Home Assembly Work! To find out more Call.....Toll Free (24 Hour Recording) 1-888-289-9708. U.S. Publishing Co. P.O. Box 633 Rocky Mount NC 27802 Name ___________________________________________ Address ___________________________________________ City & State ___________________________________________ From jim.burnes at ssds.com Tue Dec 15 22:14:26 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:14:26 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update, part II In-Reply-To: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Lucky Green wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:06:01 -0800 > From: Lucky Green > To: dbs at philodox.com, "E$@Vmeng. Com" , > "Cryptography at C2. Net" > Cc: cypherpunks at algebra.com > Subject: DigiCash Update, part II > > As some of you may be aware of, I am involved with an effort to > acquire DigiCash. Allow me therefore to suggest that now is not a good Exellent news, Lucky! Good luck in your negotiations and a beneficial outcome for business and freedom. happy holidays, jim burnes From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 15 22:35:45 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:35:45 +0800 Subject: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?] Message-ID: <199812160609.HAA31572@replay.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Trei, Peter [mailto:ptrei at securitydynamics.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 11:23 AM > To: cypherpunks at toad.com; cryptography at c2.net; dcsb at ai.mit.edu > Cc: Trei, Peter > Subject: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?] > > Someone using the name Carlos Gomes [GomesC at netsolve.net] > wrote: > > > [...] > > There were several ideas floating around: a) detach > > from the net and from work b) create a signed letter of > > disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_ > > loosely organized burst of DoS against select online > > targets from widely distributed sources. > > > All valid forms of protests (when properly organized > > and executed) all with varying forms of impact and > > visibility. For the record, I think option c) could be > > a valid and effective form of active protest. It is a > > form which has not been used in support of the cpunks' > > agenda (or many agenda's for that matter) to date and > > one that merits a review. > > [...] > > > regards, > > C.G. > > A DoS (Denial of Service) action is a really, really, > really bad idea. > > It's both illegal and counterproductive. It's the sort > of thing I would expect to hear from an 'agent > provocateur' bent on discrediting critics of > government policy, by casting them as malicous hackers. > > We went through this once before. Back when I was > getting the DES challenges going, some one proposed > that the target should be a live bank transaction (I > think in Germany). I argued strenuously against such a > move, and in favor of a specifically created target > This goal was fullfilled when I got RSA to set up and > sponsor the Symmetric Key Challenges. [deletia] Hmm... I agree that Peter's representation of my suggestion would not be a good idea nor would it be productive-- especially in the long run. And his interpretation of my writing was correct given the current understanding of what a DoS is. So let me flesh out a bit what I think option c) above should have said. In my first mail to the list on the strike subject I offered a couple references outlining some possible forms of electronic civil disobedience (ECD). The analogy used in those texts is to a "sit in" or, as explained in other references not mentioned, the activity can be looked at as a large scale letter writing campaign like the ones organized by Amnesty International which are aimed at prison officials holding political dissidents or political prisoners. The idea is to maximize awareness (to the targets as well as mass media) of the protest while minimizing the likelyhood of severe litigation or other punitive action against those involved in the protest. It's basically an indismissible show of dissent in large numbers aimed directly at the source of the dissent. As commonly understood, a DoS (Denial of Service) attack would entail an undisclosed group of hackers and script kiddies attempting to knock out a server/site for as long as possible-- which usually requires that the group be destructive and remaining as anonymous and untrackable as possible. This was _not_ what I had in mind as option c). In an effective ECD campaign you would want to publicize what your agenda is including a listing of possible spokespersons/leaders for negotiation to both the target and the media. You would also want to control the extent of the Disruption of Service (instead of Denial of Service) to somewhere between more than barely being noticed to less than breaking any laws. Example: A public web page is setup with information on the next "sit in" or "log writing campaign" containing the agenda behind the protest, contact persons for more information, target site with explanation of choice, start time and stop time. Let's further that the cause is able to get a couple hundred or couple thousand supporters to, for example, repeatedly telnet to port 80 on the remote server during a specific 5 minute window and type in: GET I do not support your sites views on such and such see www.stop_this_now.org for details. Given the right level of logging on the server you'd quickly fill up the target's logs with a record of the number of people (or actually computers) that don't agree with the target's agenda. In Trei's last copied paragraph he mentioned setting up a dedicated target for the DES challenge. I think a similar scenario would also be an effective tool for ECD for testing support as well as being an alternate site since some target sites could be ominious enough to keep supporters at bay and a guinea pig site with full logging could be used to gather data to present to the media directly instead of to the media through a target site. I'd rather not get into a lengthy arguement about the legality of the above or whether it can be implemented since judging from the result of some of the last calls to protest within this group I don't think this type of action will see a real implementation anytime soon so it's legality and feasibility would be mostly speculation IMHO. I just wanted to clarify what I had in mind as option c) in the original mailing. It's late and there's a bunch of good jazz happening the next two nights at the Mercury Lounge in downtown Austin. 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Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." FORTUNE MAGAZINE:� "An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ...� thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...� "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.� Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.� Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.� Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.� Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?� They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.� Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS ������ Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. ������ Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.� One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.� This chemical attracts more females to him.� It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.� WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.� It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product.� Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE� will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.� McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE� according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.�� One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.� Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. ������������������������ *** � For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. �������������������������*** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.� Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. ������������������������SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,� 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card� ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,� along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: ������������������������ Euphoria Products Dept. 202 ���� 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 ����������������������� � Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please call: 1-888-745-6328 F From news at quake.connectfree.net Wed Dec 16 16:23:26 1998 From: news at quake.connectfree.net (news) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:23:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812170028.AAA00601@radius.connectfree.net> Connect Free Newsletter November/December 98 Connect FREE would like to wish all our customers a Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year Welcome to Connect Free, and thank you for joining our service, we hope you find our third newsletter informative. September and Octobers Newsletter can be viewed on our web site at the bottom of the FREE Internet page. Connect FREE would like to apologise for Novembers Newsletter not being sent out. We were waiting for the upgrade to the Connect FREE network to be completed and the launch of the new services. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Upgrades As mentioned in our last newsletter, Connect FREE has now doubled it�s network capacity, no more engaged tones and a faster connections to the Internet. We have added another 2MB of bandwidth to our network and twice as many modems and lines. Connect FREE can NOW offer V90 connections and is the first FREE ISP to offer 128K ISDN connections. For 128K ISDN, please dial 0845 662 1406 For V90, please dial 0845 662 1506 For customers that connect through Aardvark the number will be For 128K ISDN, please dial 0845 662 1409 For V90, please dial 0845 662 1509 Connect Free is aiming to be not only the first Internet Service Provider to offer FREE Internet access but also the Best ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- POP 3 & SMTP Mail Connect FREE is proud to announce the launch of it's E-mail Service. Connect FREE customers can NOW receive UNLIMITED POP3 e-mail addresses, individually password protected. Example e-mail address: myname at connectfree.co.uk and myname at anywhere.connectfree.co.uk Sending emails can only be done via a Connect FREE dialup, however you will be able to receive your mail from any other ISP's dialup account. For your Connect FREE e-mail addresses, please go to http://www.connectfree.net/update Coming shortly, FREE Web space ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changing your Details on Line Connect FREE has designed a web page so you can alter your details on-line, for example change your email addresses and contact details. To update your details and add additional e-mail addresses please go to http://www.connectfree.net/update ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Games Server The Connect FREE Games Server has been upgraded and is better than ever before, it also includes Quake II as well as Quake. Please check out the bulletin board on the Games Web Page for dates on matches. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE Software/FTP Web Site Connect FREE has become a mirror site for TUCOWS, which will be available very shortly. What is TUCOWS? TUCOWS is the UK premier FTP web site for FREE PC Internet software, and because Connect FREE users will be able to connect direct to the server at Connect FREE, bypassing the Internet, meaning downloads will be a lot faster then you have ever seen before. The site is also updated on a daily basis, so the latest upgrades are always available. Software available to download includes Internet Explorer, Netscape, Mail packages, FTP software, News hosts. You name it, we got it, and it is all for FREE! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Premium Rate Telephone Technical Support Connect Free has launched it's Premium Rate technical support line on 0890 900 0050, sorry but all calls are charged at 50p per minute. The reason for charging 50p per minute is because the Internet connection is free and we need to cover our overheads and staffing cost for the technical support lines, however we are cheaper than most of our competitors. E-mail technical support is still available, obviously this is only useful when you can connect to the Internet. (Please ensure you include you Login ID with any communication) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On-line Technical Support If you can connect to the Internet it might be worth while checking out www.connectfree.net/help Connect FREE has designed a very comprehensive technical support web page, which covers a vast amount of topics. Ranging from how to connect and configure Mail, FTP, IRC, CHAT and Browser software to how to design a Web Site and there is some useful tips on solving problems (Well worth a LOOK) Support for MS Windows 3.11 95/98 NT, Apple Mac, and Linux ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The New Connect FREE Portal Connect FREE are proud to announce the launch of the Connect Free Portal site in association with 2b. A Fantastic site for up-to date News, Weather, Lottery Results, Shopping, Entertainment, Sports and Music. Need a map of any area within the UK, no problem, enter a postcode to receive a map of the area you intend visiting. Searching for a service or where to-go in any area, could not be easier with the Connect FREE Portal. Visit www.connectfree.2b.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeServe For all those users out there, who have signed up with FreeServe and would prefer to have the option of which ISP you dial into or maybe have several connections to different ISP�s. FreeServe have now decided to offer anyone with a FreeServe connection the ability to uninstall your FreeServe software. Check out http://www.freeserve.net/support/cserve_uninstall.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Proxy Server: We are still receiving calls on our help line regarding Proxy server settings. Connect FREE does not currently have a Proxy Server, and if your software is configured to look for one then you will go nowhere. If you find that you can connect to our servers without a problem but then find that when you launch your browser you cannot access any web pages or performance is very slow, then you probably have the Proxy Server setting enabled. To Disable (Win95/98): Control Panel, Internet, and Connection, Un-tick the Proxy Server settings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SantaCalls Wouldn't your child, grandchild, godchild, nephew or niece just love a personal call from Santa this Christmas? In association with the Variety Club we are asking our users to visit their Santa Calls Web site. The idea is that mums and dads can enter the details of their children i.e. names of pets and things they would like for Christmas etc and then Santa actually phones the child and has a chat. The kiddie is totally convinced because Santa is armed with all their details - and who knows little Johnny might just clean that hamster out a bit more often when he knows Santa is watching! Visit Santa Calls at http://www.santacalls.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Improvements Connect Free would like to hear from you, if youhave any suggestions on how we may improve our service, or adding more content to the Connect Free web site. It is Connect Free policy not to send unwanted rubbish by e-mail or junk advertising by any other means. All we ask is that you receive our monthly newsletter informing you of any changes to the service and any new service that may come available which you may benefit from. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contact us at info at connectfree.net Telephone: 0870 742 1111 (Calls charged at the current national call rate) From kelsey at plnet.net Wed Dec 16 00:31:11 1998 From: kelsey at plnet.net (John Kelsey) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:11 +0800 Subject: Anyone Striking? Message-ID: <199812160741.BAA26791@email.plnet.net> > From: Perry E. Metzger > To: James Glave > Cc: Robert Hettinga ; cypherpunks at toad.com; cryptography at c2.net; dcsb at ai.mit.edu > Subject: Re: Anyone Striking? > Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:06 AM > James Glave writes: > > Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this > > with a news story... > > I find it exceptionally unlikely that many people are participating in > this. Whomever called the thing was not thinking very clearly. You > need at least several weeks notice for such a thing to work, and the > two or three days notice (at most) that was given was way too small. A > strike of this nature might work, but only if someone with political > sense were organizing it. What would be the usefulness of this, anyway? Most of us who know and care about this issue are already working in the field of cryptography or computer security at some level--how will slowing our projects down by a day help our cause? How will refusing to design strong systems that use cryptography send a message to the government that their meddling won't keep us from designing such systems? > Perry --John Kelsey, kelsey at counterpane.com / kelsey at plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Wed Dec 16 00:33:49 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:33:49 +0800 Subject: WEAK3-EX -- A Layman's 56-bit Data Encryption Algorithm In-Reply-To: <3676B5B3.E37D80C@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <367769EF.251F7294@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Ben Laurie wrote: > > Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > > P.S. For space and obvious reasons, I plan to remove the code and > > binaries of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E from my Web page this > > Friday, leaving in future WEAK3-EX the single encryption software > > accessible. > > Hmm. The "obvious reasons" being one or more of the following: > > a) You think people shouldn't be allowed strong crypto > b) You think the US shouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting laws > changed, we should just obey their whims voluntarily > c) You are on the NSA's payroll I didn't want to incur two matters (hence my way of formulation): 1. The law would sometime be effective in my country without my immediately noticing it and I'll get trobles. 2. I am not sure that my stuff is really strong. Saying that I have to delete because it is strong is claiming something at least very subjectively and anyway not scientific. Do you understand now? M. K. Shen From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 16 02:41:49 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:41:49 +0800 Subject: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?] Message-ID: <199812160955.KAA15452@replay.com> At 07:09 AM 12/16/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >> > disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_ >> > loosely organized burst of DoS against select online >> > targets from widely distributed sources. >> A DoS (Denial of Service) action is a really, really, >> really bad idea. ["clarification", or something, elided] >Example: A public web page is setup with information on the next "sit in" or >"log writing campaign" containing the agenda behind the protest, contact >persons for more information, target site with explanation of choice, start >time and stop time. Let's further that the cause is able to get a couple >hundred or couple thousand supporters to, for example, repeatedly telnet to >port 80 on the remote server during a specific 5 minute window and type in: > >GET I do not support your sites views on such and such see >www.stop_this_now.org for details. > >Given the right level of logging on the server you'd quickly fill up the >target's logs with a record of the number of people (or actually computers) >that don't agree with the target's agenda. [...] You clearly don't run a website. Logs are very valuable. Any admin who doesn't have space for at least several days of normal traffic available on their logging device is simply not doing a good job. A network admin running a website doesn't lose logs - careers live and die on them (if this seems an overstatement to you, go look at http://www.abcinteractiveaudits.com/ and report your findings. -10 points for declaring it stupid.). If you didn't mean "fill up the target's logs" (which I took to mean overflow available disk space), but rather "pepper the logs with many instances of some sort of odd political commentary", that could have an effect. It could throw off reporting and make a new conversation topic for editors, which might, if you managed to organize enough people, earn you a CNET story. "CyberActivists Make An Obtuse Statement - Click Here For Soundbyte". Great job. Truth is, on any major site, you'd need hundreds of robots making your bogus requests to show up - manually telneting to port 80 is line noise these days to any serious site, unless you're poking at potential security problems. If you really want to try this, at least take the bother to make valid HTTP requests that most servers will recognize. Your example above should be something like: GET /I/dont/support/your/sites/views/on/such/and/such/see/www.stop.this.now.org/ for/details HTTP/1.0 (note the two newlines at the end of the request) A sysadmins reality check, T. Pynchon From bob at usa.net Wed Dec 16 03:36:28 1998 From: bob at usa.net (bob at usa.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:36:28 +0800 Subject: Easy Money $$ <> Stuffing Envelopes: $3 Per Envelope, Guaranteed! Message-ID: <199812161048.CAA22493@toad.com> Read how you can earn $3 for each envelope that you fill with my sales materials from your own comfortable home- 100% Totally Guaranteed!! <<<< STUFF 1000 ENVELOPES AND GET PAID $3000! >>>> "If you stuff 1000 envelopes with our sales materials, you are guaranteed to be paid $3000 in cash" Hello Friend and Job seeker, Are you looking to be your own boss, interested in creating and controlling your own work hours/schedule, and working from your comfortable home? 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From tv at wlwonline.de Wed Dec 16 04:55:01 1998 From: tv at wlwonline.de (Tom Vogt) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:55:01 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812150144.TAA05750@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3677A494.3825B97C@wlwonline.de> Jim Choate wrote: > > Cypherpunks write code? > > It's too bad they don't publish some of it in a newspaper or two... now that would be a novel idea... buy some add space and use it to publish rsa... :) btw: hi, I'm new to the list. you'll hear more from me in a second. From Della7079 at aol.com Wed Dec 16 05:31:24 1998 From: Della7079 at aol.com (Della7079 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:31:24 +0800 Subject: How to Win!! Message-ID: LUCKY SLOTS!! HOW TO BEAT THE CASINO BANDITS Dear Thrill Seeker, Everybody loves to play the slots. But just about everybody LOSES when they play the slots. This book has news for you. SLOT MACHINES CAN BE BEATEN!! You can now "disarm" the Bandits! 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Enclosed is my: Check _____ Cash ____ Money Order ____ for $10.00 (Outside of U.S.A. add $5.00 for shipping & handling) Name: _________________________________ Address: _______________________________ City _____________ State_______ Zip_________ E-mail Address: _____________________________ Phone # _________________ MAIL TODAY: GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION P.O BOX 7247 GARDEN CITY, NY 11795 U.S.A. From tv at wlwonline.de Wed Dec 16 05:44:47 1998 From: tv at wlwonline.de (Tom Vogt) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:44:47 +0800 Subject: The Fallacy of Cracking Contests In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981215202538.00a42b90@mail.visi.com> Message-ID: <3677AC3D.667AA2D@wlwonline.de> Bruce Schneier wrote: > > The Fallacy of Cracking Contests > Bruce Schneier > [...] > 1. The contests are generally unfair. [...] > 2. The analysis is not controlled. [...] > 3. Contest prizes are rarely good incentives. I'd like to add: 4. a breaker is not likely to tell at least part of the people entering such a contest who have what it takes to be successful will NOT report a success. in many cases, waiting until the seemingly secure product actually ships and THEN applying the gained knowledge will yield far greater rewards. From jya at pipeline.com Wed Dec 16 06:01:04 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:01:04 +0800 Subject: Skipjack KEA Errata Message-ID: <199812161333.IAA31332@camel8.mindspring.com> Thanks to Lewis McCarthy some 20 transcription errors have been corrected in the Skipjack Key Exchange Algorithm test vectors, a summary of which is offered at: http://jya.com/kea-errata.htm Original transcriptions of the Skipjack spec have been updated: Matt Curtin's: http://www.interhack.net/pubs/skipjack-kea.tgz (Archive of it all) http://www.interhack.net/pubs/skipjack-kea.ps (Postscript) http://www.interhack.net/pubs/skipjack-kea.tex (LaTeX source) JYA's: http://jya.com/skipjack-spec.htm http://jya.com/skipjack-spec.zip (same, zipped) From riburr at shentel.net Wed Dec 16 06:05:49 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:05:49 +0800 Subject: NSA Electronic Sheriff In-Reply-To: <199812160043.TAA18739@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3677B42A.1CF7FF8D@shentel.net> John Young wrote: > >From a new report: > > "Cybercrime, Cyberterrrorism, Cyberwarfare" > > Tomorrow's frontline commanders will be drawn from > the ranks of computer wizards. The sandal culture is > challenging the wingtips. The National Security Agency's > (NSA) new electronic sheriff, responsible for protecting > NSA's ground stations, is a 23-year-old GS-14. Dialog at a recent poker game at a table in the back of the NSA Saloon: "Rumor has it there's some bad hombres ridin' into town. We're gonna need a sheriff. Quick, pin a star on that kid over there, yeah him, the idiot wearin' sandals. He'll stand 'em off in the street, we'll be waitin' on the roofs." "Hey sweetcheeks, another round for the boys." From nidhi at icope.com Wed Dec 16 06:33:35 1998 From: nidhi at icope.com (Shrinidhi) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:33:35 +0800 Subject: FW: Information about Algorithmic hash Message-ID: <01BE2910.D19808D0@DOORS> Hi all, Can any one tell where can I find info about Algorithmic hash From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Dec 16 06:43:20 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:43:20 +0800 Subject: DARPA's Active Network page (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812160006.SAA09381@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3677BD28.6465E8F0@brainlink.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:50:56 -0500 > > From: Robert Hettinga > > Subject: DARPA's Active Network page > > > I saw an article on this in InfoWorld. NAI/TIS and DARPA talking about > > putting self-switching packets into the network. I don't see this as too > > far off from packets purchasing their passage across the network with > > micromoney of some kind. > > How does the packet know what is a good price or a bad price as it makes > each hop? Whose processor is it using to run its program to evaluate the > costs? Who pays for that processor cost on a node that isn't selected? Who > has access to the audit trail? How does a reliable copy get back to the > originator? How does it do this in an anonymous network? Joy, just what we needed, a twist on the old source-routing packets. A bad idea within a bad idea. :( Gee, how many of your routers allow source routed packets these days? To add to the above question, how big will the over head of the packets be? How will the routers know that the packets aren't forged and that they contain real micromoney and not already spent micromoney (possibly for the purposes of denial of service attacks or other hacking attempts)? How will they do this in real time and not incur huge propagation delays? IMHO, This has the words "Stupid Idea" written all over it. -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Dec 16 06:55:02 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:55:02 +0800 Subject: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye (further ideas) In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous> Message-ID: <3677BC26.20F121D5@brainlink.com> Jay Holovacs wrote: > > At 08:25 AM 12/15/98 -0600, mib wrote: > > > >On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:02:00AM -0800, Mixmaster wrote: > >> There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" > >> which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as > military > >> classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the > >> Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA. > > > > Here are some more suggestions (I didn't make this list; all of these > supposedly were on watch actual lists of different types----"thanks" to the > police & spook organizations for doing the research) One of the things to consider in order to be successful in this at any level is that we need to automate some of the features of including such keywords in emails. I'm sure the NSA has lovely filtering capabilities in Echelon to remove the chaff emails. (Think of the way spam gets filtered based on keywords.) Certainly if we use the same tag in every email, they can filter us out by the email address. This does have a nice unexpected side effect: being labeled a kook makes for the NSA not wanting to watch your posts, and then you would have a bit more privacy, however, don't count on this: far more likely is that they do archive everything and then use a smart search engine. We could rotate the tags around, but if we send too many of these, they can throw you into the above category. You could post them anonymously, which makes it much harder for them catalog, so they will be forced to look at the traffic, when and if, they need to search it. You could have some program randomly alter your email address, but patterns would be found to filter you out that way. We could also use remailers to create lots of cover traffic going to /dev/null. This would be far more interesting, especially if we add some sort of poetry writer that spits out spook talk and update it occasionally with current event keywords. Then again, they could filter the messages that go to /dev/null, or find patterns in the spook poetry generators... We are of course talking about doing something as evil as spamming in that it does generate lots of traffic and eats up lots of bandwidth. This has the side effect of wasting lots of our resources and little of the NSA's. There is the obvious problem of how many people are willing to do such a thing. If say, ten or twenty of us start running such spookbots, it will eat lots of our resources, but few of theirs. If lots and lots of us run spookbots, it might create a small dent in Echelon which they'll simply address by adding more hardware. (Keep in mind that the figure of their yearly budget is several billion, for which you pay for in the form of taxes. Comparatively to one person, they have what approaches infinitely greater funds. Comparatively to the entire country, they don't, but the entire country won't join such an effort.) Unless there is a large scale effort, we'd be doing nothing more than the WASSENAAR protest. Sure, some would say, we'd be calling undue attention to ourselves, but if you're on this list, or receiving it, you're already calling undue attention to yourself. If Echelon is indeed as large as it is reported to be, the mere reading of Cypherpunks is enough to flag you. Anyway, anyone have any ideas to further build on this? -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Wed Dec 16 07:53:05 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:53:05 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Cypherpunks write code? Make people use it. . . ---mib wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote: > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > > up with something better. > > Cypherpunks write code? > > - d. > == "Be sand in the gears of the machine." Henry David Thoreau _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From mib at io.com Wed Dec 16 09:29:20 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:29:20 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <19981216103440.A17503@io.com> On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 02:42:44PM +0000, Joel O'Connor wrote: > Cypherpunks write code? Make people use it. . . Vee have vays... - d. From phantom at wwa.com Wed Dec 16 09:29:26 1998 From: phantom at wwa.com (Leif Ericksen) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:29:26 +0800 Subject: Norstar Question Message-ID: <3677DA8D.878B2E90@wwa.com> This may be slightly off the topic here sorry... :( Ok for those of you that are actually reading this message I have a question about a Small Office Norstart Switch/voice mail system. I have recently taken the task of doing phone admin wehre I work and we use a Norstar system. I am waiting on tech support/help folk to get back to me and wanted to see if I can get the system working before they call. Here is the problem. I do Feature 983 to get to the admin section and I type in the password for some reason the password is not working. I tried a fewother combinations to see if it was given some other password, as well I checked the defaults and I have had NO luck getting into the admin section. Thus my question.... Is there a back door way ito the system that anybody on the net knows of? If so plese send it to me. If it means actually having access to the device I belive it is in a closet that I can get to with the aid of some other folk here that have the key. Thank you, Leif Ericksen. From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Wed Dec 16 09:31:11 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:31:11 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: <19981216163705.5509.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hahahaha. . .now that was good. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 iQA/AwUBNnfhbVMQ9C083U98EQL7/ACaAlm+meYQpigAcpd2b60nTM48nT4AnjV+ bcnaWyFIx+QMFOvAEvoSi6B7 =LMpF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---mib wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 02:42:44PM +0000, Joel O'Connor wrote: > > Cypherpunks write code? Make people use it. . . > > Vee have vays... > > - d. > == "Be sand in the gears of the machine." Henry David Thoreau _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Wed Dec 16 10:09:37 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:09:37 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: <19981216164043.5754.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It only took one to turn India around. Ghandi nearly starved to death, used nothing but passifism and won the race man. You can't discredit the labors of a few, wonderous things can happen when 3 people bond together for a common cause. To much negativity in this world already, I don't wish to add to it. We've got nothing left but hope and what a large flame a small spark can ignite. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 iQA/AwUBNnfiP1MQ9C083U98EQJ8tACg7OHwYApyS5ZV910pjal4l10a66cAoLT3 0MMHXv2SVi4gvLgd/VhGSVV8 =cZCk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > > up with something better. That act of protest, no matter how small, > > serves to raise awareness. > > Nothing like an extremely weak protest effort to hurt the cause ... > > Having three geeks unplug their computers for a day sends the message > that "nobody cares." > > > == "Be sand in the gears of the machine." Henry David Thoreau _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 16 10:16:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:16:42 +0800 Subject: CRYPTO-GRAM, December 15, 1998 Message-ID: <199812161730.SAA23119@replay.com> > Okay, I finally got the story right about Network Associates Inc. and the > Key Recovery Alliance. (Last month I pointed to a Wired News story that > they quietly rejoined.) The story is wrong. They never left the KRA. > Since its inception, Trusted Information Systems was a big mover and shaker > in the KRA. When NAI bought TIS in May 1998, TIS's membership transferred > to NAI. NAI resigned the leadership posts that TIS had held in the > Alliance and stopped attending its meetings, but never left the KRA. So, > NAI is a member of the KRA, and has been since it bought TIS. > http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/16219.html As a further clarification, it is incorrect to say that NAI "never left the KRA." Network Associates Inc. (NAI) was formed out of McAfee and Network General. McAfee was a member of the KRA, so at the time NAI was formed, it was a member of the KRA. When NAI bought PGP, in late 1997, Phil Zimmermann found out about NAI's membership, and he was able to persuade management to withdraw from the KRA. This is why it is wrong to say that NAI never left the KRA. See http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17112,00.html. NAI bought TIS a few months later. TIS was a member and in fact a leading member of the KRA. By purchasing TIS, NAI inherited its membership in the KRA, and so NAI was once again a member. It's not clear whether Phil Zimmermann or anyone else tried to get NAI to again withdraw from the KRA, but if they did, they were not successful. NAI renewed its membership later in 1998 and is still a member of the KRA, although it has reduced its level of participation. From tcmay at got.net Wed Dec 16 11:17:28 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:17:28 +0800 Subject: Nitwits In-Reply-To: <19981216164043.5754.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: At 8:40 AM -0800 12/16/98, Joel O'Connor wrote: >It only took one to turn India around. Ghandi nearly starved to >death, used nothing but passifism and won the race man. You can't >discredit the labors of a few, wonderous things can happen when 3 >people bond together for a common cause. To much negativity in this >world already, I don't wish to add to it. We've got nothing left but >hope and what a large flame a small spark can ignite. Mailing lists and news groups are filling up with nitwits like this character. Nitwits who can't compose coherent thoughts, nitwits who can't even put sentences together without major grammar and spelling erros, and nitwits who have nothing to say. Some are from Yahoo, some from MyDejaNews (tm), some from HotMail. And then there are the unilluminati from WebTV and AOL. A lot of people need to be taken out and shot. Or at least globally killfiled. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 16 11:22:00 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:22:00 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update, part II In-Reply-To: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 11:06 PM -0500 on 12/15/98, Lucky Green wrote: > This is one of the many reasons our group has the support of several > of the larger banks in the world, banking software/EDI vendors, credit > card clearing houses, personal financial/cryptography software > vendors, global media corporations, and other players that are > required to make eCash and other DigiCash IP derived technologies > ubiquitous. Kewl! So... Lucky? Who do you have? I mean, it looks like you're announcing that you have the only people of any financial substance who really care about *using* this technology, much less investing in it, and they're all lined up for you to pull the trigger and bag DigiCash. - From here on out, it's simple, yes? Just announce who they are, publically, and make your tender offer. You do that, Scott sees the writing on the wall that he can't sell to anyone else who's not already on your list of investors, and surrenders, Dorothy. Gotta know when to fold 'em, and all that. So, again, Lucky, care to tell us who's backing you up? After all, *that's* how they do hostile takeovers in *real* life. Just like secret crypto protocols, there are no anonymous investors on the street. That stuff's for financial fairy tales. Well, okay, to be fair, there *is* another way to do this, too, since DigiCash is a private company currently in the lap of a bankruptcy trustee. It's pretty simple, really. Just buy up the outstanding debt that caused DigiCash to file Chapter 11 in the first place and hold out until Scott & Co. forks over the company. I'm sure that it's less than $10 million. Maybe it's way less, and, I bet the number's completely knowable, or will be soon, since the legal documents on the DigiCash bankrupcy are completely public information. Whatever the amount of the nut is, it's easily chump change to a bunch players as august as yours must be. Presto-chango, you get the same result without making the headlines. Nonetheless, your investors would still have to be public, yes? That's the consequence of buying assets out of Chapter 11. But, like the sign says, "If you lived here you'd be home now." If you *could* do one or the other of the above, you'd have done it already. Shades of Enrico Fermi, who noted that if there were extraterrestrials within geologically-attainable timescales of us, they'd *be* here already. To be honest, I don't really give a hoot *who* owns the blind signature patent as long as they license the damn thing so the rest of the world can get on with using it. However, DigiCash, at the moment, has a nut to crack in the millions of dollars. The people holding those um, nuts, don't care who pays them as long as they get their money back. After that's taken care of, all of us can go play moneypunks to our hearts' content. I'm pretty sure that Scott Loftesness, after being a permanent fixture on all of the lists I've ever started :-), knows *exactly* what to do with the patents once the bills are paid. Or at least what *I* think he should do. :-). Frankly, Lucky, just promising us, "HAL"-like, that "something wonderful's gonna happen", that you have, like Nixon, "a secret plan to end the war" just doesn't cut it anymore. Been there, done that, that dog don't hunt, etc. Just about every time I turn around, I get private mail from some cypherpunk or other with a secret plan to take over DigiCash and free the blind signature patent for us all, that they're really just a stalking horse for some really huge and famous investor, but they can't tell me who, just now. It's getting tiring, frankly, and, like always, money talks, and so forth. The cost of anything is the foregone alternative, including reputation capital. So, I guess it's time I anted up some of what little I have myself, :-), and called your hand, here, Lucky. First, *my* cards... After my recent trip to London, I have enough actual cash, promised from about 3 sources, and maybe from one or two more, to form a small syndicate which can pay the present value, at 15% and an 8 year remaining life on the blind signature patent, on about $1-2 million in equivalent patent income. I think I can get more people and money signed on over the next few months, but if you do the math, the amount I'm talking about is not much actual cash, paid up front. Enough for a nice house in some places, but that's about it. However it may be that it is, quite literally, a cash bird in the hand vs. two future revenue birds in the bush, frankly, Scott hasn't gotten that close to the end of his rope, just yet. He's already turned down a cash offer for more than that that I know of, whether you and I are talking about the same rejected offer or not. But the amount I'm calculating above is still pretty much fair market on what's left of the residual financial cryptography *research* value on the blind signature patent, and that much money could, just barely, keep the patents from being buried with DigiCash if it ever came to that. That is, nobody knows how to actually *make* money on these patents. (Or DigiCash would have done it already and/or somebody would have coughed up the money to buy DigiCash out of hock by now otherwise.) But a lot of us have research *ideas* which *might* make money, and which need to be tested in the marketplace to see if they actually work, the payments business being what it is. So, a million or two is about what I would guess the *entire* market is willing to pay for the privilege of *experimenting* with blind signatures over the remaning 8-year life of the patent. That comes to up-front, present value, "bird in the hand", cash in the low to mid six figures, depending on how much you think the patents can earn out in research payments. I haven't announced the folks who've verbally committed to fund this syndicate yet. But, I'm changing that. I'm asking the person who's volunteering to floor-manage the legal part of the syndicate to draw up an offering memorandum, or whatever, and when these people who have made verbal offers have actually signed something legally binding, I'll announce who they are publically on the Philodox website. So, that's what I have, Lucky. My game plan is to form a small syndicate to buy the blind signature patent, and a few patents, from DigiCash, or what's left of it, for the estimated research revenue they may bring, but, only *after* Scott has exhausted any ability he has to get any revenue from other sources. Now for *your* cards: It sounds like you're promising your investors something significantly more than the present value of the returns on research royalties, and I wish you luck. But it seems to me that you don't have to be so skulduggerous, if you've really got what you claim you have in your quote above. And, so, Lucky, whatcha got, and, more to the point, who do ya have? Have they signed memoranda of understanding, if not actual legal committments of capital? Have you formed a corporation to transfer the patents to, or are you going to purchase DigiCash, Inc., with all it's potential domestic and foriegn liability? And so on. Details, please. Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNnfeJcUCGwxmWcHhAQFmqgf9EyLxZ7o5THZk24sycXIHRG8Rpf39A1ax PGpqbxphoxKfPqr/35J1Ei8Y7bXkodv+SKX5s9957rgtLtgSENOfREwG7OlcxJxj G1IOsIKf1umNZ5rUWRrlOwYVx8eEAIViW0U3h4Tj0zdyjUy0hSyPrbWjColmY/Wc mzZSMKTz5ajmThTkdszUM13EDhadZ09RRf3su7yzquIHOEx5WNKDrPq4CvCzM8ii 60WgZnVhsGyBYuPHujpe1Z6suimuJsUuLZHL0JN6nM94+KXqPSKLXpT+PNN45wqf OFKTsmtZxcXqbivD9OMQUO3kufJkpsVv+3WG93LgLSb6nM5gB5e0Gw== =vHGx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jim at acm.org Wed Dec 16 11:34:17 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:34:17 +0800 Subject: Network Associates' KRA Partner status Message-ID: <3677FD28.F7BAB298@acm.org> Bruce Schneier said in the "News" section of Crypto-Gram: >> Okay, I finally got the story right about Network Associates Inc. and the >> Key Recovery Alliance. (Last month I pointed to a Wired News story that >> they quietly rejoined.) The story is wrong. They never left the KRA. >> Since its inception, Trusted Information Systems was a big mover and shaker >> in the KRA. When NAI bought TIS in May 1998, TIS's membership transferred >> to NAI. NAI resigned the leadership posts that TIS had held in the >> Alliance and stopped attending its meetings, but never left the KRA. So, >> NAI is a member of the KRA, and has been since it bought TIS. >> http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/16219.html Someone responded: > When NAI bought PGP, in late 1997, Phil Zimmermann found out about NAI's > membership, and he was able to persuade management to withdraw from > the KRA. This is why it is wrong to say that NAI never left the KRA. > See http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17112,00.html. I remember hearing this at the time. The cited article (8 Dec 1997) has supporting quotes from NAI's Gene Hodges. In addition, Dave Del Torto wrote to the secretary of KRA last month and got a response from secretariat staffer Michael LoBue on 20 Nov 1998 that addresses this point in passing: Indeed, some of this current 'public debate' about NAI's relationship with the KRA goes back to their public statement that they 'withdrew' from the organization. The fact of the matter is that they simply did not choose to become an actual member at the time the organization was formally constituted. When it was reported that they withdrew, there was in fact no entity from which to withdraw. While the actual status of KRA is interesting, the relevant point is that NAI did indeed say they were withdrawing, and they did withdraw from participation in the nascent organization. > NAI bought TIS a few months later. TIS was a member and in fact a leading > member of the KRA. By purchasing TIS, NAI inherited its membership in > the KRA, and so NAI was once again a member. It was more explicit than this. Michael LoBue said further: Concerning Network Associates membership in the KRA, in response to your question I have verified that our files contain an executed Membership Agreement for Network Associates (dated July 2, 1998), as well as a properly completed Application for Membership of that same date. This is not just accepting the existing membership status of TIS. It's reversing NAI's non-membership status and explicitly joining. DDT's message and KRA's response were posted to several lists on 22 Nov 1998. Somebody'd better write this all in a physical book before the wrong version gets scribbled into history. Webbage is nice, but is regrettably transient. -- Jim Gillogly 26 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 18:06 12.19.5.13.19, 5 Cauac 12 Mac, Ninth Lord of Night From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 16 12:13:44 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:13:44 +0800 Subject: [e-money] Press Review IV: E-mail trail Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:37:56 +0100 To: e-money at moving-art-studio.com From: jens-ingo Subject: [e-money] Press Review IV: E-mail trail Sender: owner-e-money at mail.serve.com Reply-To: owner-e-money at moving-art-studio.com MOVING ART STUDIO LIST: E-MONEY http://www.moving-art-studio.com/ ================================= found in wired news on 16 dec 1998 pst http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16485.html ==================== start quoted text ==================== China Delays Net Trial Reuters 7:35 a.m. 25.Nov.98.PST SHANGHAI -- China has delayed the closed-door trial of a man accused of using the Internet to undermine the state, and on Wednesday his wife called for an open court hearing. Lin Hai, a 30-year-old computer engineer, had been scheduled to go on trial on Thursday. He is accused of inciting subversion of state power, but a Shanghai court has postponed the case indefinitely, said Lin's wife, Xu Hong. "They did not say when it might get underway," Xu told Reuters. "When it starts, I would want it to be in open court so there would be public scrutiny." Lin, who was arrested in March, has been accused of using the Internet to send tens of thousands of email addresses to VIP Reference, a dissident publication based in the United States. If convicted, he could face up to life in prison. The case was to be heard in a closed-door session at the Shanghai Number One Intermediate Court. Even the defendant's wife was to be barred from court. "Of course I believe I should be at the trial," Xu said. "But the hearing should be open to the public as well." The court offered no explanation for its sudden decision to postpone the hearing, but Xu said it could be a result of international interest in the case. The case has been ignored by the official Chinese media but has attracted widespread attention abroad. Some 1.2 million Chinese are on the Internet, and the total is expected to reach 5 million by 2000. The government has embraced the Internet, but so have a number of dissident groups. VIP Reference, one of many dissident publications that have sprung up online, says it sends information to 250,000 email accounts in China from various email addresses in the United States. Court documents called VIP Reference a hostile foreign organization, and claimed it used data provided by Lin "to disseminate large numbers of articles aimed at inciting subversion of state power and the socialist system." Lin ran a now-defunct software company that set up Web sites and provided job searches for multinational companies. His supporters say he frequently exchanged or purchased email addresses to build up a database for his online job search business. Copyright� 1998 Reuters Limited. ==================== end quoted text ==================== ================================== You are subscribed to the list e-money. To *un*subscribe simply send mail to e-money at moving-art-studio.com *message text: subscribe or unsubscribe* --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From webmaster at max-web.com Wed Dec 16 12:28:44 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:28:44 +0800 Subject: Strike may have had small impact... Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981216112825.00895bf0@max-web.com> I think the impact of the strike on December 14 against the Wassenaar Arrangement has been greatly under-estimated. Even though I can only comfirm a handfull of brave souls may have supported the cause, the discussion about it was enough to raise awareness. And wasn't that the point? I submit this as proof for your aproval: (Orinigal story quoted directly from: http://www.zdnet.com/icom/e-business/1998/12/wassenaar/index.html ) December 14, 1998 Wassenaar Pact May Threaten Global E-com By Jim Kerstetter - PC Week Could a treaty banning the use of strong encryption put the screws, once again, to the U.S. encryption industry? Cryptographers and others in the security industry worry that that could be exactly what is happening. The Clinton administration this month, in an about-face to indications that it was loosening its grip on encryption, announced the signing of a treaty with 32 countries called the Wassenaar Arrangement. The treaty would limit key lengths to 64 bits or less. Clinton administration officials said the treaty will, for the first time, level the playing field for U.S. companies trying to sell abroad. That's true, to a point. U.S. companies have long complained that they were unfairly hampered by the lack of restrictions in other countries. What they had hoped would happen--and what the administration seemed to be edging toward--was an easing of U.S. export laws. They never asked for stronger controls in other countries. The Wassenaar Agreement broadsided many who had watched the Clinton administration over recent years grant export licenses for strong encryption products to companies such as Hewlett-Packard Co. and Netscape Communications Corp. Jeff Smith, general counsel of the Washington industry group Americans for Computer Privacy, said in a statement the treaty is a welcome attempt to level the playing field, but "it also demonstrates flaws in our government's encryption export policies." Security status quo So what does it mean if the agreement does become law? For starters, it would not cut the use of unbreakable encryption. The Data Encryption Standard, the U.S. standard for symmetric, or private-key, encryption, has been broken at 56 bits. No one has publicly acknowledged breaking a DES key longer than that. The Triple DES key, commonly used in the United States, would continue to be illegal for export. Ironically, the government's own proposed Advanced Encryption Standard, which is expected to replace DES in about two years, would not be allowed for export. It's not clear what the treaty will mean to companies that have already been granted export licenses either for strong encryption--the financial-transaction encryption that has been exempt in the past--or for authentication mechanisms that usually take 1,024 bits. In other words, the treaty would reinforce the status quo in the United States. Elsewhere around the world, it could be a different story. Of the 32 other nations, several, such as the United Kingdom and Japan, already have strong encryption controls. But others, such as Germany, have virtually no export controls, and companies there could be seriously impacted. About 18 months ago, the control of encryption products was taken out of the hands of the U.S. Department of Defense, which had long considered encryption a munition, and handed to the Commerce Department. Although the result was often the same--the DOD, the National Security Agency, the CIA and the FBI still had a say in what could and could not be exported--the shift of control was considered by many to be a sign that the administration was growing more friendly to industry concerns. Those hopes were further bolstered when export limits were raised from 40 bits to 56 bits, when financial institutions where allowed to use whatever they wanted to protect transactions and when a long list of companies gained export approval. But the Wassenaar Agreement, which must still be approved by Congress and legislative bodies in most of the participating countries, would put the brakes on that road to government deregulation. Jim Kerstetter is a staff writer at PC Week. Send e-mail to jim_kerstetter at zd.com. -Kevlar Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions? A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death. Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong" and question authority. From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Dec 16 13:03:15 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:03:15 +0800 Subject: y2k+weapons Message-ID: <199812162011.MAA01025@netcom13.netcom.com> finally a good analysis of the weaponry situation.. surprised it has taken this long for anyone to write something like this. hopefully most weaponry systems will have failsafe mechanisms that prevent them from being shot off. in other words, they will malfunction, they will not work or be launchable.. worst case scenario of course is that they launch..!! the analogy is sort of like with stop lights. how horribly will they fail? for example stop lights could fail and just blink in all 4 directions, or they could be green in all 4 directions.. both are a failure, but the latter is more like a "catastrophic" failure.. with weapons, inoperability is a failure, launching is a catastrophic failure. ------- Forwarded Message Delivered-To: pswann at easynet.co.uk From: Carolyn Langdon Subject: Y2K and Nuclear Weapons Command Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:25:51 -0500 Organization: St Lawrence Centre for the Arts Encoding: 119 TEXT Science for Peace Media Release For immediate release - December 1998 Y2K and Nuclear Weapons Command and Control Systems Toronto - There are over 35,000 nuclear weapons remaining in the world today. These arsenals contain the destructive power of 650,000 Hiroshima bombs. Thousands of these weapons, mostly land-based ballistic missiles and submarine launched missiles are in a state of ready deployment. That is their warheads, which contain the nuclear fissile material, are attached to their delivery systems. Computers have become increasingly central to nuclear operations but they have not been without their glitches and serious flaws. During the Cold War computer malfunctions produced several serious false alarms of missile attacks, and during the Gulf War computer malfunctions contributed to the failings of the Patriot anti-missile system. "Both Russia and the U.S. are believed to have a "launch on warning" policy, so that a retaliatory launch is made after an adversary's missile is detected, and before the warhead impacts. Thus a single accidental or unauthorized launch could result in wholesale nuclear war." says Dr. Alan Phillips of Science for Peace. "When you factor in the Y2K computer problem an already dangerous situation becomes untenable", says Calvin Gotlieb from Science for Peace. "A Y2K meltdown in the nuclear systems of any one of the nuclear countries - the U.S., Russia, China, France, Britain, India, Pakistan and Israel (an undeclared nuclear state) would spell disaster." Dr. Barbara Simons, President of the Association for Computing Machinery states, "I am not going to worry about whether or not my VCR might become confused on 1/1/00. The worst case scenario is not especially bad. I am, however, going to worry about whether or not a computer that controls a major weapons system becomes confused on 1/1/00." Research findings by a number of different agencies and experts, both inside and outside the U.S. Dept. of Defense (DOD), show "no confidence" in the Pentagon's present program to meet the Year 2000 challenge. The DOD weapons systems utilize millions of 'embedded systems' in the form of microchips and microprocessors. U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense John Hamre has admitted that, "everything is so interconnected, it's very hard to know with any precision that we've got it fixed." This was the U.S. state of affairs after 2 billion dollars had been spent trying to fix it. There is little information coming out of Russia about their progress with Y2K problems, but we can safely surmise that all can't be well given their diminished resources. David Parnas, the NSERC/Bell Industrial Research Chair in Software Engineering at McMaster University is concerned about the risks posed by the Y2K computer problem and nuclear systems. He says that, "The US military establishment is heavily dependent on computers for communication, intelligence and for control of weapons. Computer programs are very complex constructions. When a problem is discovered it often takes weeks to fix. Often the "fixed" program is still not right and requires further repair after the revised program is put into service. Sometimes, programs that are not date sensitive exchange dates with programs that are and will fail when those 'partner' programs fail." The Fail Safe Solution: All nuclear weapons states need to disconnect their nuclear warheads from their delivery systems to eliminate the risk of nuclear war by miscalculation, accident, or the Y2K problem. With proper planning and sufficient lead-time, it is technically feasible. In 1991, in the wake of the coup attempt in the Soviet Union, Presidents Bush and Gorbachev took thousands of nuclear weapons off deployment in a short period of time. The most difficult problem will be providing safe storage for the thousands of warheads from land-based missiles. In view of the risks involved in leaving weapons on ready alert, this difficulty can be easily overcome if governments start planning now. We need to hear from NATO, the U.N. and Congress that a multilateral approach to the Y2K problem is being coordinated. To date there has been near silence. Time is running out for a coordinated approach. Similar views to those of Science for Peace are held by individual computer scientists and nuclear physicists, organizations like the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research and the British American Security Information Council, both based in the U.S., and Physicians for Global Responsibility among others. - - - 30 - For more information please contact: Science for Peace Board members: Dr. Alan Phillips, Science for Peace & Physicians for Global Survival, 905-385-0353 Calvin Gotlieb, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Computer Science, U of T T. 416-978-2986 or 416-482-4509 David Parnas, P.Eng., NSERC/Bell Industrial Research Chair in Software Engineering, Dept. of Computing and Software, Faculty of Engineering at McMaster University 905-525-9140x27353 or 905-648-5772 Other: Barbara Simons, President of the Association for Computing Machinery (simons at acm.org) Arjun Makhijani, Institute for Energy and Environmental Research (U.S.) 301-270-5500 For further information on the Y2K issue and other related nuclear issues see the Science for Peace website at: www.math.yorku.ca/sfp/ Science for Peace is located at University College, 15 King's College Circle, University of Toronto M5S 3H7 Canada. Tel. 416-978-3606. From tcmay at got.net Wed Dec 16 13:06:25 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:06:25 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update, part II In-Reply-To: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net> Message-ID: At 8:22 AM -0800 12/16/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Well, okay, to be fair, there *is* another way to do this, too, since DigiCash >is a private company currently in the lap of a bankruptcy trustee. It's pretty >simple, really. Just buy up the outstanding debt that caused DigiCash to file >Chapter 11 in the first place and hold out until Scott & Co. forks over the >company. ... >Presto-chango, you get the same result without making the headlines. The bankruptcy laws simply don't work this way. At least not in the U.S. My understanding is that the current instance of Digicash is a fully U.S.-based company. Those holding debts, secured or unsecured, don't have the company or its patents "forked over to them." If a company is ultimately liquidated the physical plant, furnishing, equipment, bank accounts (if any), patents, and (sometimes) "good will" are sold. Proceeds then go to the various debt holders according to their class of debt. The debt holders _may_ have side deals, contractually arranged, which give them rights of first refusal on certain patents or assets. But not usually. So, buying the debt of a company facing liquidation guarantees almost nothing about gaining access to patents. Someone who has no debt interest in the company may well end up outbidding others for assets, including patents. This is just basic business stuff. I'm an investor in About the wisdom of announcing a takeover publically I'll say nothing. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Wed Dec 16 13:24:10 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:24:10 +0800 Subject: Strike may have had small impact... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981216112825.00895bf0@max-web.com> Message-ID: At 11:28 AM -0800 12/16/98, Kevlar wrote: >I think the impact of the strike on December 14 against the Wassenaar >Arrangement has been greatly under-estimated. Even though I can only >comfirm a handfull of brave souls may have supported the cause, the >discussion about it was enough to raise awareness. And wasn't that the point? > >I submit this as proof for your aproval: >(Orinigal story quoted directly from: >http://www.zdnet.com/icom/e-business/1998/12/wassenaar/index.html ) > >December 14, 1998 >Wassenaar Pact May Threaten Global >E-com > >By Jim Kerstetter - PC Week ... I didn't see any mention of the little strike. If you think Wassenaar wasn't already a story, and that only the "strike" of 63 geeks made it into a story, you're just one of the nitwits. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Wed Dec 16 13:32:53 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:32:53 +0800 Subject: CyberScam In-Reply-To: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com> Message-ID: I wanted to see what other nonsense this nitwit has written, and found this: At 10:12 AM -0800 10/23/98, Kevlar wrote: > >My bad. You were serious. But still... > My bad _what_? The fragment "My bad" is nonsense. >Mozilla (NS), IE, and many other less well known (but certianly as popular) >WEB browsers have encryption built right into them, so you can do things >"Securely". Nobody uses their real name on the internet, unless it's for >buisness, Nonsense. Many of us use our "real names" on the Internet, right here on this non-business list. In fact, real names outnumber nyms by probably 10-1. Ditto for most of the Usenet and most mailing lists. Chat rooms may be a different story...I wouldn't know about them. >Naturally this is in compareison to the internet's predacessor (Not >ARPAnet, that was a government project. BBS's came first) >itgrumble>, which were mostly free to anyone who came and wanted to dl/ul a >file or post in the message base. And usally if it wasn't open you could >apply for access. No, BBBs (not "BBS's") did _not_ come first. I had an ARPANet account in 1973 or so, long before any meaningful BBSs were available. (And the ARPANet goes back to 1967-8 or so.) Nitwit. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 16 13:48:02 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:48:02 +0800 Subject: Network Associates' KRA Partner status Message-ID: <199812162102.WAA09792@replay.com> Jim Gillogly writes: >I remember hearing this at the time. The cited article (8 Dec 1997) has >supporting quotes from NAI's Gene Hodges. In addition, Dave Del Torto >wrote to the secretary of KRA last month and got a response from >secretariat staffer Michael LoBue on 20 Nov 1998 that addresses this >point in passing: > > Indeed, some of this current 'public debate' about NAI's > relationship with the KRA goes back to their public statement > that they 'withdrew' from the organization. The fact of the matter > is that they simply did not choose to become an actual member at the > time the organization was formally constituted. When it was reported > that they withdrew, there was in fact no entity from which to withdraw. This sounds like some legalistic spin-doctoring from the KRA to try to minimize the political impact of the departure. Are they really claiming that the KRA did not exist as late as December, 1997? See their own press release at http://www.kra.org/clips/alliance2.html, dated October 2, 1996, describing the formation of the KRA. See also the McAfee press release at http://www.nai.com/about/news/press/1996/121296.asp, dated December 12, 1996, saying that McAfee was joining the KRA, and the KRA press release http://www.kra.org/clips/prkeyrec0597.html from May, 1997, welcoming 22 new members. Perhaps their story is that prior to December, 1997, the KRA had enough existence for companies to join, but not enough for them to withdraw? >> NAI bought TIS a few months later. TIS was a member and in fact a leading >> member of the KRA. By purchasing TIS, NAI inherited its membership in >> the KRA, and so NAI was once again a member. > >It was more explicit than this. Michael LoBue said further: > > Concerning Network Associates membership in the KRA, in response to your > question I have verified that our files contain an executed Membership > Agreement for Network Associates (dated July 2, 1998), as well as a properly > completed Application for Membership of that same date. > >This is not just accepting the existing membership status of TIS. It's >reversing NAI's non-membership status and explicitly joining. Keep in mind that the KRA is apparently trying to put a particular spin on events, as is clear from their strained attempt to claim that NAI never withdrew because their was "no entity from which to withdraw." They want to maximize the appearance of commercial support for their organization. The membership applications they are referring to may just be the paperwork needed to officially transfer the membership from TIS to NAI. This would represent NAI's decision to continue to be a member of the KRA but would not be a matter of joining anew; rather it would maintain the existing relationship inherited from TIS. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 16 14:02:14 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:02:14 +0800 Subject: CyberScam (fwd) Message-ID: <199812162106.PAA13774@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:43:07 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: CyberScam > No, BBBs (not "BBS's") did _not_ come first. I had an ARPANet account in > 1973 or so, long before any meaningful BBSs were available. (And the > ARPANet goes back to 1967-8 or so.) 1969. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at acm.org Wed Dec 16 14:33:44 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:33:44 +0800 Subject: Network Associates' KRA Partner status Message-ID: <367829BD.D92B0106@acm.org> Somebody said in response to my quoting the message from KRA to Dave Del Torto: > The membership applications they are referring to may just be the > paperwork needed to officially transfer the membership from TIS to NAI. > This would represent NAI's decision to continue to be a member of the > KRA but would not be a matter of joining anew; rather it would maintain > the existing relationship inherited from TIS. Whether or not KRA had a legal existence at the time NAI withdrew from it, my main points (and yours, assuming you're the same Somebody as before) still stand. NAI did announce after the PGP acquisition that they were withdrawing from KRA, whatever its legal status at the time, and they did take explicit action to join, rejoin, or transfer TIS's membership to themselves. It was simply a passive acquisition of the TIS membership as a result of absorbing TIS. Our points of difference seem to be much smaller than our agreements, and the recent Schneier article doesn't appear to match this version of history. -- Jim Gillogly 26 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 21:29 12.19.5.13.19, 5 Cauac 12 Mac, Ninth Lord of Night From emc at wire.insync.net Wed Dec 16 15:01:50 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:01:50 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq Message-ID: <199812162220.QAA11058@wire.insync.net> Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention from his cocksucking problems. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From measl at mfn.org Wed Dec 16 15:41:40 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:41:40 +0800 Subject: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:30:55 -0600 (CST) Dear Mr. Klinton, Your actions in bombing Bagdad, *solely* to distract from your own impeachment problems, is a Stalin-like crime against humanity. I am *astounded* that you are willing to throw away the lives of innocent people in your attempt to hold your [so often abused] power. Impeachment is no longer enough: only assasination could hope to bring Justice to the world at this point. I fervently pray that some heroic man or woman will have the courage and moral standing to answer the call and end your miserable Nazi existence, and once again allow us to hold our heads up when announcing that we are an American citizen. Right now, I am totally ashamed: of you, of the Country for allowing you to get to this point, of the system of putrid politicians that allows you to stay in an office which allows you to maim and murder in such a wanton and capricious manner. In short, I am ashamed of my citizenship. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mib at io.com Wed Dec 16 15:43:07 1998 From: mib at io.com (mib) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:43:07 +0800 Subject: Nitwits In-Reply-To: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com> Message-ID: <19981216165235.B6577@io.com> On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 12:43:07PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > I wanted to see what other nonsense this nitwit has written, and found this: > > At 10:12 AM -0800 10/23/98, Kevlar wrote: > >My bad. You were serious. But still... > > My bad _what_? The fragment "My bad" is nonsense. His homies in da hood are down wit it. - d. From hrook at exchange.microsoft.com Wed Dec 16 15:48:21 1998 From: hrook at exchange.microsoft.com (Harvey Rook (Exchange)) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:48:21 +0800 Subject: Nitwits Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19ADDE@DINO> Tim May Wrote... > > Some (Nitwits) are from Yahoo, some from MyDejaNews (tm), some from > HotMail. And then > there are the unilluminati from WebTV and AOL. > The depressing thing is that AOL as at least 14 million paying subscribers. It may even be up to 20 million. Hotmail has 30 million active accounts. The unilluminati are the future of the internet. Harv From lamarck at sis.it Thu Dec 17 07:48:55 1998 From: lamarck at sis.it (lamarck at sis.it) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:48:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: J. Lamarck, Advisors in Biotechnology Message-ID: <199812171548.HAA17955@toad.com> Egr. Signore / Signora, Come � ormai ampiamente noto, � cominciato il grande processo di transizione dall'industria chimica, che per decenni ha trainato l'economia di molti paesi, a quella delle biotecnologie avanzate. Il fortissimo sviluppo di questo settore sta dando vita al pi� dinamico mercato azionario di fine secolo. La J. Lamarck � la prima societ� di consulenza finanziaria nata per soddisfare le esigenze di tutti coloro (privati, banche, istituzioni o grandi aziende) che vogliono investire in biotecnologia con cognizione e sicurezza. Offre un servizio altamente qualificato e personalizzato in cui la disciplina, la responsabilit� ed il mantenimento della fiducia del Cliente rappresentano i cardini della sua politica di management. Il nostro programma consente di soddisfare la necessit� di diversificazione di coloro che hanno intravisto la grande potenzialit� del settore delle biotecnologie e desiderano perci� investire in questo segmento di mercato in continua crescita. La diversificata composizione del portafoglio comporta la riduzione del rischio che � normalmente associato agli investimenti in singole imprese del settore. Siamo continuamente orientati alla comunicazione con tutti coloro che operano nel settore "high-tech" e nella biotecnologia in particolare perch�, come l'esperienza americana insegna, solo l'unione delle diverse discipline (scientifica, giuridica, finanziaria ed economica) pu� creare tutte le sinergie utili allo sviluppo di questo settore. Se gradisce maggiori informazioni sulla nostra attivit� pu� visitare il nostro sito internet: http://www.lamarck.com, oppure pu� contattarci alla nostra e-mail:lamarck at sis.it RingraziandoLa per l'attenzione accordataci Le inviamo i nostri pi� distinti saluti, J. Lamarck From tcmay at got.net Wed Dec 16 16:08:52 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:08:52 +0800 Subject: Nitwits In-Reply-To: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19ADDE@DINO> Message-ID: At 3:02 PM -0800 12/16/98, Harvey Rook (Exchange) wrote: >Tim May Wrote... >> >> Some (Nitwits) are from Yahoo, some from MyDejaNews (tm), some from >> HotMail. And then >> there are the unilluminati from WebTV and AOL. >> > >The depressing thing is that AOL as at least 14 million paying subscribers. >It may even be up to 20 million. Hotmail has 30 million active accounts. The >unilluminati are the future of the internet. > By the way, I don't condemn AOL and even WebTV out of hand. For some, it's the best way to get access to the Net, or at least better than what they currently know about. As bad as some features of AOL are, their browser and mailer capabilities are actually _better_ than what some university and corporate users are stuck with (until recently, some only had VT100s running off of VAXen). The problem is that the Net and all fora on the Net are being invaded by folks who were the "C" students in high school English. (Actually, some of these illiterates may have gotten "B"s in their English classes, maybe even a few "A"s...such has been the effect of dumbing-down and ebonicizing our educational system.) "Like, cuz, my bad! WareZ..where? I cant unnerstand why u all think speling is so imporrtant. Like you prolly past English class or sumpin." And these folks don't seem to read, haven't thought deeply about poltical or social issues, and just appear to drop in on lists and spew for a few weeks before, thankfully, vanishing. Filters are the answer, of course. If I were on any high volume mailing lists these days, which I'm not, I'd consider shifting to a "positive reputation filter" mode. Which I may do anyway. --Tim May Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 16 16:21:33 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:21:33 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq Message-ID: <199812162343.AAA25819@replay.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Cordian [mailto:emc at wire.insync.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:20 PM > To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq > > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to > draw attention > from his cocksucking problems. Spoken like a poet. First thought, best thought. Here's a loose haiku: Bubba launched a massive strike on Iraq blowjob snag go *poof* Excuse the abuse of style... C.G. -- sig space for lease From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Wed Dec 16 16:41:42 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:41:42 +0800 Subject: Nitwits Message-ID: >The depressing thing is that AOL as at least 14 million paying subscribers. >It may even be up to 20 million. Hotmail has 30 million active accounts. The >unilluminati are the future of the internet. > >Harv Sites like AOL and Hotmail do a great service to the net: They hurd the unilluminati onto a select few sites, making it easier to blackhole them en masse. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 16 17:09:42 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:09:42 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update, part II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 2:55 PM -0500 on 12/16/98, Tim May wrote: > The bankruptcy laws simply don't work this way. At least not in the U.S. Actually, Tim, they do. And, frankly, what an amazingly silly thing to say. A day doesn't go by when debt-holders don't convert to common, or are asked to do so, bankruptcy or not, and take over what's left of a corporation like DigiCash. Frequently, debtholders are the people in the strongest position to do so, and the trustee agrees. Almost all bank mergers happen that way, for instance, and a patent's as good an asset as a bank deposit, especially if it's earning revenue, like DigiCash's are, however small that revenue might be. Actually auctioning off a company's assets doesn't happen nearly much as the Small Business Adminstration -- or whoever your sources are -- say they do. Mergers are usually the rule. Look at PGP, if you want a pointer. Cybercash will probably be sold, someday, debts and all, and probably for the amount of their debt, which, by now, I bet, is as considerable as DigiCash's. So, indeed, if partners of the caliber Lucky is boasting he has went out and bought up the debt of DigiCash, it would take about a heartbeat and a half before Loftesness, or even the bankruptcy trustee, would offer them stock, if not control, just to take the company out of Chapter 11. Or, more likely, to merge it with a more solvent business. To think otherwise, is, frankly, a complete betrayal of your cluelessness on the subject, Tim, and I don't use that word lightly in your regard. > If a company is ultimately liquidated the physical plant, furnishing, > equipment, bank accounts (if any), patents, and (sometimes) "good will" are > sold. Proceeds then go to the various debt holders according to their class > of debt. Right. If it gets that far. Usually, it doesn't. In the case of DigiCash, it might, except for one rather obvious thing. They still have outstanding revenue from the likes of DeutcheBank, Nomura, and a few other rather large financial institutions. That means that the patents, at the very least, are worth something on the books, and probably *won't* be sold at auction unless everything else fails. Frankly, converting all the outstanding debt to common would be the cheapest thing to do, and you could bet that if Loftesness could do it, he would. Finally, if all that doesn't work, there's still the possibility of buying the patents at graveside, like you, and, frankly, I, were talking about, but, given the capital market's thorough disfavor for internet transaction protocols these days, the patents are probably not worth much to any of the "players" Lucky says he has, especially in the modern world of hockey-stick internet IPO's and VC-induced investment bubbles. So, outside of their residual remaining royalties :-), the patents *might* be worth something to some financial crypto labs, and to the internet crypto community at large, but that's about it, which was why I'm trying to put together a syndicate to backstop whatever Loftesness tries to do to get DigiCash back on it's feet. To be blunt, nobody has *proven* that they're worth anything else but research curiosity, so far. And, until the debts on DigiCash are taken off the books (by stock-for-debt swap, or outright buyout, or whatever), we're not going to find out anytime soon. > The debt holders _may_ have side deals, contractually arranged, which give > them rights of first refusal on certain patents or assets. But not usually. More properly, DigiCash's debts may, in fact, *be* secured by the patents themselves. In which case, the debtholders *do* get the patents. Given the quality of the outstanding debtholders, (most of whom *are* VC folks, if I remember what I've heard) I expect that if it were at all possible to collateralize the debt with the patents, they would have done so. Of course, we'll find out the real answers to all of this when the Chapter 11 filing is actually final. Right now, I hear that there's nothing there but a placeholder filing, with no actual assets listed in detail, much less whether they're secured by anything. > So, buying the debt of a company facing liquidation guarantees almost > nothing about gaining access to patents. Nonsense. Utter, complete, absolute -- and, clueless -- nonsense. See above. > Someone who has no debt interest > in the company may well end up outbidding others for assets, including > patents. Sure. Except, of course, when the judge turns the debtholders into controlling shareholders instead. Go read up on a few actual bankruptcy cases, Tim. It might help you state your case better if you used actual data. > This is just basic business stuff. I'm an investor in Yes, I know, Tim. You "know" , and *I'm* no , and so on, and yes, we all know, you're a tycoon of massive renown. A giant unsold position in Intel, which you have now retired early on, to a fortress out in the thules somewhere, proves you must be such. Of course, Tim, if you really were clueful about business as you say you are (instead of just a commendably frugal case of being exactly the right employee at the right time), *and* you cared about making blind signatures ubiquitous, you, the man who taught us all how important they were to begin with, could have probably *bought* the patent yourself, probably for a song, at least once when they were up for grabs in the last few years. And you might even made money on them, being so clueful in business, of course. :-/. I even expect that you could even buy those pantents now, all by yourself, if you could remove yourself from your Barcolounger, except for the odd trip to the shooting range, to buy a new stereo, or to wait for the millenium. Yelling insults at the local gendarmarie as they drive by your Y2K-proof stone-by-stone replica of Wolf's Lair, challenging them to come and shoot you out, copper, doesn't exactly help, either, I suppose. If you thought financial privacy was so important, you, personally, Tim, could have done something about this, a long time ago. All by yourself, without anyone else. And you didn't. Instead, you snipe. Oh, well. Cypherpunks now ride Barcoloungers, I suppose. Frankly -- if I may step aside the point of the thread, here -- since you started this chicken-little, off-the-pig, shoot-the-"criminals", Junior-Birdman militia kick, you're just plain boring, Tim. Tireder than Wired, you are. Which is a real drag to lots of folks who are still here, because you really had a lot to say once. You taught everyone here most of the way they think about the world, in fact. Double that for all the people who've left the list already in the wake of your recent thermite infatuation. Nowadays, though, I remember a very sad, but funny, Firesign Theater takeoff on 'Desiderata' which seems to sum you up pretty well. It said something like '...you're a fluke of the Universe, and, while you're sitting there, looking stupid, the Universe is laughing behind your back'. That is, you pop off with the occasional "kill the bastards", or the occasional "pearl" of business wisdom like the above, and we'd laugh, except that you're no funnier than any other incontinent old gentleman, yelling at the local skatepunks trashing his flowerbeds. Or minefields. Or whatever. > About the wisdom of announcing a takeover publically I'll say nothing. That's nice. Glad to hear such a well-founded opinion. Except, of course, that that's the way it's usually done, Tim. People raise their money, they get their partners signed up into a legal arrangement of some kind, they hoist the Jolly Roger if necessary, and they make a tender offer. In public. No veiled intimations of a "Secret Santa", somewhere in the wings, come to save the day. Transactions, for the most part, are based on reputation, or have you forgotten that as well? And, yes, Tim, I actually do know how it's done. I've seen it. I've been right there, albiet with an extremely junior clerk's-eye view, and almost two decades of hindsight. :-). Certainly, close enough to know when someone isn't blowing smoke, which is what I'm increasingly convinced I see, here, so far. And, sadly, what's really more important here, is that I now know you *haven't* seen this kind of thing done, Tim, and you don't know any more about what you've been saying about mergers, or bankruptcy, than what you've read in the papers. If you read the papers at all anymore, that is. So, to return to the point, here, if anyone's going to make a run at DigiCash, they should do something, or, to fracture some scatology, get off the pot. They should not go stomping around public mailing lists saying the equivalent of, "I have secret partners and we have secret plans, and we're going to free the blind signature patent for all to use". So, please, give me a break. About the "secret santa" bit, anyway. It would be very nice indeed to pry the blind signature patent out from the beached, debt-ridden carcass that DigiCash has now become, :-), and I think that it's going to happen sooner or later. Whether a bunch of cypherpunks, with or without Timothy C. May, will ride up in a cloud of dust and save the day remains, of course, to be seen. Frankly, I'd rather expect that the financial crypto community will step up to the plate, here, but we'll see. And, so, with the above, -- and now final, as far as I'm concerned -- pile of, well, clueless dreck, from you, Tim, I've reached an amazing decision. Something I never thought would happen, even with all the excrement you've heaped in my, and other people's, general direction over the years. To paraphrase the joke about the optimist child at the Christmas tree, there was usually a pony in mess somewhere. But, with this, it has finally happened, Tim. Welcome to *my* killfile. Given the quality of your contributions to this cypherpunks lately, I expect that I won't miss you very much, and that is a very sorry shame indeed. Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNnhNrcUCGwxmWcHhAQEqygf/a6Ml50SqXJHfWxWrHFI4AfzSleL7bGzZ laKlUP3sl7HcDz43D58gMZmFJblYO/1cucj4VoK8SL1+EqiqE/3DH3G4yCSAbaFO YaaJ3W9V1xVdxoSk9alWPN0kQfLdSJeF+CZsGqCorhhDXIAqm6X4z86B7IZLDltG KaY3ENxomCE64fM6PZRBplz4dRW14K8OrxbshPoR07Lg4sjMCG8hUzHHq2uq+VcL CrPWtrHYynWSCZagKUHZeWekm1QxheZssYcTG4kar7NHq76wooLexWkmC8lGhDpu gVDL1wtnzlqBkDKa22M6x98sHBOwC56gfkeExPwGaRFHqcU6fUYPuw== =6xeW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Wed Dec 16 18:03:12 1998 From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:03:12 +0800 Subject: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812170058.RAA31040@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Date sent: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:41:39 -0600 (CST) From: Missouri FreeNet Administration To: gen-dist at mfn.org Copies to: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd) Send reply to: Missouri FreeNet Administration > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:30:55 -0600 (CST) > The season has just openend on Klinton and Blair,what is the going price quoted on the AP bot on Blacknet? > Dear Mr. Klinton, > > Your actions in bombing Bagdad, *solely* to distract from your own > impeachment problems, is a Stalin-like crime against humanity. I am > *astounded* that you are willing to throw away the lives of innocent > people in your attempt to hold your [so often abused] power. > > Impeachment is no longer enough: only assasination could hope to > bring Justice to the world at this point. > > I fervently pray that some heroic man or woman will have the > courage and moral standing to answer the call and end your miserable Nazi > existence, and once again allow us to hold our heads up when announcing > that we are an American citizen. Right now, I am totally ashamed: of you, > of the Country for allowing you to get to this point, of the system of > putrid politicians that allows you to stay in an office which allows you > to maim and murder in such a wanton and capricious manner. In short, I am > ashamed of my citizenship. > > > Yours, > J.A. Terranson > sysadmin at mfn.org > > -- > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the > first place... > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Graham-John Bullers edmc.net ab756 at freenet.toronto.on.ca moderator of alt.2600.moderated http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Wed Dec 16 18:11:27 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:11:27 +0800 Subject: Nitwits Message-ID: <27b167df8676b4b47cc5d0122e7e3589@anonymous> >Sites like AOL and Hotmail do a great service to the net: They hurd the >unilluminati onto a select few sites, making it easier to blackhole them en >masse. This is what happens when you read literature on GNU Hurd while you're posting. From jim.burnes at ssds.com Wed Dec 16 18:30:55 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:30:55 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq In-Reply-To: <199812162220.QAA11058@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Eric Cordian wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:20:09 -0600 (CST) > From: Eric Cordian > To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq > > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention > from his cocksucking problems. > 10K civvies are predicted to expire for this little excercise. The republicans in grand style stopped the impeachment vote obediently. Whats your definition of evil? This is totally out of control. As much as I dislike the UN, Klinton is supposed to get agreement with the UN security council. This amount to a war crime under UN law and maybe that matters to senate democrats. This definitely seals the "abuse of power" charges. Murdering 10k civvies to avoid impeachment just verifies everything I believed about this guy. jim From riburr at shentel.net Wed Dec 16 18:52:17 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:52:17 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq In-Reply-To: <199812162220.QAA11058@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <367868B6.5146E3@shentel.net> Eric Cordian wrote: > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention > from his cocksucking problems. No, I blame his irritability on lack of nookie. Unable to get his his willy slick of late, it's not surprising he needs to kick the dog, or lob some ordinance into the backyard of the middle eastern assholes nextdoor. Maybe if he gets drunk enough he'll take some pot shots... Yeehaa! Bush had an overactive thyroid (fighting wars from speedboats), Clinton had an overactive, but recently unrequited cock (fighting wars from the woodshed while being impeached). The truth is this is a war that must be fought no matter what clown is in the White House. The hard fact is Iraq is of the utmost geopolitical importance, it's on the agenda, and to hell with fellatio inspired impeachment. In a word, everything's come to a head. Saddam's a target, his demonization by the western press has been thorough. This is a test of our resources to target one man, a superpower against one man, there is no God. Gunboat diplomacy my good man, gunboat diplomacy. From JMaflk at msn.com Thu Dec 17 11:24:31 1998 From: JMaflk at msn.com (JMaflk at msn.com) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:24:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Free Cruise for 2! Home Based Travel Biz! Message-ID: <44338780_95842366> Fire Your Boss And Kill the Alarm Clock! WE DID! Travel for pennies and Get paid! Enjoy a complimentary Cruise for 2 Make $3,000 to $5,000 a week and never leave your home. We're looking for people with good work ethics and extraordinary DESIRE who want to change their lives. We'll give you all the training and support that you need to insure your success. And if we can do it...so can you! This is not Multi-Level Marketing or GPG. Now you can "Make Your Vocation A Vacation" Call NOW for information Here's a 24 hr. TOLL FREE Number 1-800-345-9688 Ext. 1250 From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 16 19:55:05 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:55:05 +0800 Subject: Richard Stallman: Encryption software volunteers needed incountries without export control Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text To: cryptography at c2.net Subject: Richard Stallman: Encryption software volunteers needed in countries without export control Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:35:07 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 03:40:23 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: From: Richard Stallman To: info-gnu at gnu.org Subject: Encryption software volunteers needed in countries without export control [Please re-post this as widely as possible, wherever appropriate] The US has scored a major victory in the global campaign against freedom and privacy rights, by persuading 33 major countries to prohibit export of free encryption software. These countries are the ones that are party to the Wassenaar agreement (see list below). The agreement is not final; putting it into effect would require new laws or regulations in each country, and in some countries it might be possible to organize politically to block this. If you are a citizen of a country listed below, please talk with your legislators and urge them to refuse to ratify the agreement. See www.epic.org for more information. However, anticipating the possibility that these laws will go through, we need to find volunteers in countries which are not signatories to take over development and distribution of encryption software such as the GNU Privacy Guard and PSST. We are looking for (1) an ftp site from which to distribute the software, and (2) people to carry on the development work. If you have contacts in any non-signatory country, please circulate this message as widely as possible in your country, looking for people who might want to volunteer for GNU software development. Non-signatory countries that come to mind as possible places where free encryption software can be developed include Mexico, India, Croatia, China, South Africa, and perhaps Israel. However, any country is ok if its laws do not prevent the work. Big Brother has won a battle, but the war is not over. List of countries signing the Wassenaar agreement: Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Luxembourg, Netherland, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom and United States. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 16 20:05:24 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:05:24 +0800 Subject: Potential Crypto Development Sites (re: Stallman) Message-ID: <199812170324.VAA15307@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:52:00 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: Richard Stallman: Encryption software volunteers needed in > countries without export control > List of countries signing the Wassenaar agreement: > > Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, > Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, > Japan, Republic of Korea, Luxembourg, Netherland, New Zealand, Norway, > Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, > Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom and United States. > > --- end forwarded text Belize isn't on the list and it's only 2 hours from Houston. Citizenship can be had for as little as $40k US. They market themselves as a tax haven. Apparently anyone living there for 5 years can qualify for citizenship. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Wed Dec 16 23:32:37 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:32:37 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq In-Reply-To: <199812162343.AAA25819@replay.com> Message-ID: Was it my imagination, or did the T'Hawk strikes pause for Bubba's speech? It seemed like they were coming into Baghdad every half hour, like clockwork, but they seem to have skipped one half-hour's worth when Bubba was on the air. -r.w. On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Cordian [mailto:emc at wire.insync.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:20 PM > > To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > > Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq > > > > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to > > draw attention > > from his cocksucking problems. > > Spoken like a poet. First thought, best thought. > > Here's a loose haiku: > > Bubba launched > a massive strike on Iraq > blowjob snag go *poof* > > Excuse the abuse of style... > > C.G. > > -- > sig space for lease > > From Gabby12235 at aol.com Thu Dec 17 02:28:11 1998 From: Gabby12235 at aol.com (Gabby12235 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:28:11 +0800 Subject: Publishing Company For Sale!!! 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If you have received this message in error, reply with the word unsubscribe in the subject. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From report at top-10.com Thu Dec 17 02:42:00 1998 From: report at top-10.com (report at top-10.com) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:42:00 +0800 Subject: Visibility Report Message-ID: <199812170944.EAA32104@storm.rorap.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Your report was prepared using the search engines listed below. The term used for each search is listed at the beginning of the report block for that term. The #'s beside each search engine represent the position in which that engine reported your web site. Your web site's URL: (http://www.jungle.com/michael/culture/books/bookshelf.html) This report was generated on 12/16/1998. Search Terms: Propaganda and Political Art New Jersey ----------------------------------- 9 -- Yahoo! 0 -- Excite 0 -- AOL NetFind 0 -- Lycos 0 -- InfoSeek 0 -- Northern Light 0 -- Planet Search 0 -- AltaVista 0 -- Netscape NetFind 0 -- Web Crawler This report only reports positioning within about the top 30 listings. A listing further down is not of much use as most users will only view results from the top 10 to 20 positions. Remember that you can always request another report, for any web site, for any search term, from our site, and it's always free. A complete expliation of this report is available at: http://www.top-10.com, and click on the "resources" link. ==================================================================== Thanks for using our report. It is available to you at any time for no charge. TOP 10 PROMOTIONS http://www.top-10.com "WE'LL GET YOUR BUSINESS TO THE TOP" 252-537-9222 (phone) -- 252-537-3125 (fax) ==================================================================== From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Dec 17 03:08:45 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:08:45 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F863E@MSX11002> Someone claiming to be Joel O'Connor wrote: > It only took one to turn India around. Ghandi nearly > starved to death, used nothing but passifism and won > the race man. I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Ghandi may have been a great man and an inspiration to us all but he *lost*. His first big political involvment was trying to stop the British from allowing the Boers to take away political rights from the "coloured" and Asian population of Cape Colony. The Brits caved into the white South Africans and we all know what happened next. Then he tried to get them (well us I suppose, since I'm British) to "quit India" in the 1920s & 30s - failed again, we got out 2 decades later, after WW2, when a British government was elected that was anti-colonialist. You wouldn't have been able to persuade the 1945-1951 government to stay *in* India. In fact they were so eager to get out they probably caused more problems by the speed of the withdrawal. Ghandi wanted a secular federation of all India - but instead there was partition, the secession of an inherently unviable Muslim state that was bound to end up with either civil war or fundamentalism (and in the end got both, at least for some of the time), and at least hundreds of thousands, and possibly many millions of deaths that could have been avoided. And then of course he himself was killed. And now India has the BJP. Ghandi was perhaps *right* but he certainly didn't "win the race". Ken (and not his employers) From nobody at nowhere.to Thu Dec 17 04:13:51 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:13:51 +0800 Subject: the KKK took my baby away (in year 2000) Message-ID: <5fa1f33f36df0ce47fa8fa6f24f46fe0@anonymous> Millenium Y2Kaos: Fear of Computer Bug Fueling Far Right Prepare for war. Its coming!" With those words, hard-line racist preacher James Wickstrom warned an August gathering of extremists in Pennsylvania of the end-times battle he expects in the year 2000 -- a battle he believes will be set off by the so-called "y2k" computer bug. Across the extreme-right spectrum, such fears of a societal breakdown sparked by computer date-change problems have set activists afire. While Wickstroms prophecies may be the most explosive, similar millennial fears are dominating the headlines of the radical press. The airwaves are reverberating with warnings to head for the hills and hunker down for possible riots and race war. The Internet is replete with similarly dire scenarios. When the crash comes, Wickstrom enjoined some 30 followers, "get out of the way for a while and then go hunting, O Israel!" Like the biblical figure of David, godly whites must "fill our shoes with the blood of our enemies and walk in them." Wickstrom lives, he said, "for the day I can walk down the road and see heads on the fence posts." If the race war scenario such men envision is a fantasy, the computer problem they believe will set it off is not. Authorities ranging from President Clinton to leaders of industry around the world believe that y2k -- which is short for "Year 2000" -- could lead to major social and economic snarls, even a worldwide depression. The problem originated with early computer programmers who abbreviated date references to two digits -- as in "98" for 1998 -- in order to save then-precious bytes of computer memory. At the turn of the century, experts say, many computers could crash or spew nonsensical data as they confuse "00" for 1900. While predictions vary hugely, many officials and experts believe there could be serious problems in banking, food supplies, air traffic control, nuclear and electrical power, defense and any number of other sectors. Many fear a recession. And there are those who forecast even worse. Something will happen Regardless of the actual result -- and many experts see the headline-making y2k story as a tempest in a teacup -- there is no question that a large number of extremists have pegged the year 2000 as a critical date. For many, it will be the time when Christian patriots, the "children of light," must do battle with the satanic "forces of darkness." Others believe "one-world" conspirators will attack American patriots on that date. This has not been lost on those who battle right-wing terror. Early next year, the FBI will launch a nationwide assessment of the threat of domestic terrorism on and around Jan. 1, 2000. "I worry that every day something could happen somewhere," Robert Blitzer, head of the FBIs domestic terrorism unit, told the Los Angeles Times recently (see interview also in this issue). "The odds are that something will happen." Hard-line revolutionaries like Wickstrom are not the only ones to tie apocalyptic visions to the y2k problem. Pat Robertsons relatively mainstream Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), for instance, offers news stories describing the computer bug and its possible ramifications such as "The Year 2000: A Date With Disaster" and "Countdown to Chaos: Prophecy for 2000." Robertson markets a CBN video, "Preparing for the Millennium: A CBN News Special Report," that includes a synopsis of "the y2k computer crisis" with his futuristic novel, The End of an Age, which describes a "possible scenario of a future biblical Armageddon" triggered by a meteors crash. The audience for such ideas is not even limited to evangelical Christians. A large number of new religious books have crossed over strongly into the secular market. Left Behind , a recent series of four apocalyptic novels co-authored by an evangelical Christian minister and a former journalist, has sold almost 3 million copies. The series made "publishing history in September when all four of the books ascended to the top four slots on Publishers Weekly magazines lists of bestsellers," according to a report in The New York Times. The books authors say every major prophecy of the biblical Book of Revelations has been fulfilled, and they expect the y2k bug could set off the crisis. Y2K and the antichrist "It could very well trigger a financial meltdown," co-author Tim LaHaye writes on his publishers Web site, which attracts 80,000 electronic visits a day, "leading to an international depression, which would make it possible for the antichrist or his emissaries to establish a one-world currency or a one-world economic system, which will dominate the world commercially until it is destroyed." The series has spun off a companion childrens book series, a music CD, T-shirts and caps. More books and a movie also are in the works, the Times reported. And now, Tennessee trade magazine publisher Tim Wilson has launched a new periodical, Y2K News Magazine, that includes tips on defending property from would-be attackers. Reaction to the y2k problem on the extreme fringes of the right has varied widely, usually depending on the religious or ideological bent of each group. Probably the most consistent theme has been a survivalist one, with ideologues warning that people must prepare for the worst. And entrepreneurs around the country have leaped to take advantage of these fears, offering for sale everything from dried foods to underground bunkers. At the Preparedness Expo 98 held in Atlanta last June, for instance, at least a dozen speakers offered bleak assessments of the coming crisis. For those who took the bait, there was a plethora of products available: water purifiers, hundreds of types of storable foods from "enzyme-rich vegetable juice extracts" to "gourmet" dehydrated fruits, seeds, herbal medicines, "Cozy Cruiser" trailers and all manner of books on survival skills. Such merchants arent the only ones pandering to millennial fear. Land, gold and medical school In Idaho, so-called "Patriot" James "Bo" Gritz hawks remote lots of land that he describes as "an ark in the time of Noah," along with a huge range of survivalist products and training. In Montana, Militia of Montana leader John Trochmann has a catalog of holocaust-survival items. In states around the country, far-right "investment counselors" sell strategies to protect ones money as civilization collapses. And on the Internet, two self-described "Christian Patriots" signing themselves Michael Johnson and Paul Byus offer "foolproof" gold certificates to a mining claim in Oregon. "We [also] have set up schools to cover kindergarten, 1st thru 12th grades, adult school, community college, 4 yr college, university, and even the medical school I told you about 6 months ago," one of the Internet salesmen claims. "Bring your kids and entire family to participate in our secure decentralized Patriot community... ." Other reactions on the extreme right run the gamut, from seeing the crisis as an opportunity for global conspirators to seize dictatorial powers, to viewing it as an opening for revolution or a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Recent examples: The New American, an organ of the ultraconservative John Birch Society, speculates that the y2k bug could be Americas Reichstag fire, a reference to the 1933 arson attack on Germanys Parliament building that was used by Hitler as an excuse to enact police state laws. "[C]ould the Millennium Bug provide an ambitious President with an opportunity to seize dictatorial powers?" the magazine asks. "Such a notion seems plausible... ." Norm Olson, a Michigan militia leader, is busy doing "wolfpack" training for the apocalypse, reports Media Bypass, a magazine popular among Patriots. "Survival is the key. As with most other people, we will rely on our self-supporting covenant community, " said Olson, who believes constitutional rights probably will be suspended before the real crisis hits. "It will be the worst time for humanity since the Noahic flood." In his AntiShyster magazine, Patriot editor Alfred Adask speaks of entire cities running out of food and of the possibility of "millions of American fatalities." "If the y2k information Ive seen is accurate, we are facing a problem of Biblical proportions," he says. "Potentially, y2k ... [is] a dagger pointed at the heart of Western Civilization." Bo Gritzs Center for Action newsletter, describing y2k as "a pandemic electronic virus more deadly than AIDS," predicts "worldwide chaos" and then goes on to offer lots for sale at Gritzs "Almost Heaven" community. "If Y-2-K has the predicted effect ... we can expect to see, out of the ashes of decimated fiat systems and economic chaos, the rise of a MONEY MESSIAH, who will offer a miraculous fix to a bleeding, begging world," Gritz adds. He also predicts imposition of a worldwide "electronic currency." Writing in The Jubilee, the leading periodical of the racist and anti-Semitic Christian Identity religion, correspondent Chris Temple says that "the net result of the Year 2000 problem as I have described it will be POSITIVE! Internationalism and capitalism will be dealt severe blows; efforts to recapture local control ... will spread." In his Patriot Report, Identity proselytizer George Eaton concludes: "We need to act as if our lives depend upon our decisions, because they do. What can we do? Continue to work and save up money for survival items. ... A person can never be over-prepared." In a July Internet posting on a Klan news page, a contributor described as a computer programmer demands that the federal government "surrender" in return for programmers assistance in fixing the y2k bug. The posting speaks of "the thousands (probably millions) joining us in our rural retreats. Weve got the bibles, the beans, the bandages, the bullets -- and the brains. ... You will reap what you have sewn [sic]. ... Some cities will indeed end in flames -- flames that will light a path to our posteritys freedom." From fallout shelters to y2k Interestingly, one of the most salient commentators on the y2k problem -- a man often quoted in the mainstream press -- has been Gary North. North is a hard-line opponent of abortion and a theocratic thinker who advocates imposing biblical law on the United States. In his books, he has written of the possibility of a "political and military" confrontation "in the philosophical war against political pluralism." Although he is widely described as a y2k "expert," he is also something of a professional doomsayer. In 1986, long before the y2k problem came to public attention, North co-authored a book on how to survive nuclear Armageddon. Called Fighting Chance: Ten Feet to Survival, it features a shovel -- for digging fallout shelters -- on its cover. Norths huge y2k Web site has made him into a guru to many extremists. The neo-Nazi Aryan Nations is one of many groups that link their Web sites to that of North. "These are people who are super-sensitive to anything that suggests the collapse of social institutions," Michael Barkun, a Syracuse University expert on millennialism, said of y2k fearmongers. "Since nuclear war really is no longer out there as a terribly likely way for civilization to end, theyve got to find something else. y2k is convenient." Many experts, including Barkun and the FBIs Blitzer, agree that extremists fears and hopes surrounding y2k have increased the danger of domestic terrorism. "It adds to apocalyptic fears," says Chip Berlet, who studies the far right for Cambridge-based Political Research Associates. "Therefore, it adds to the potential for violence." James Wickstrom may best illustrate that potential. At the meeting he co-hosted with Identity leader August Kreis in Ulysses, Pa., he warned his audience -- several clad in Aryan Nations uniforms -- that auth The enemy, said Wickstrom, must be "exterminated." He must be "shot." He must be "hanged." "The battle is upon us," Wickstrom bellowed. "Battle!" From cnpot at lycosmail.com Thu Dec 17 20:41:11 1998 From: cnpot at lycosmail.com (Cindy) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:41:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Between our.. Message-ID: <199812180439.FAA06758@pat.telenor.no> NO TRICKS - IT'S FREE! Process all major credit cards on your web site. NO MONTHLY COSTS, NO TRANSACTION FEES. CHECK IT OUT. You get: - Virtual Terminal for phone/fax/mail orders - Email receipt - Recurring billing feature - Password generation for membership sites - Automatic batch closing - Address Verification Service (AVS) - Backoffice to access account history - Remote mode - Interface for all major shopping carts - Installation included For our free information package just reply to: mailto:ccard at topchat.com?subject=more_info If you are interested in becoming an authorized agent please reply to: mailto:ccard at topchat.com?subject=agent If you wish to be removed from our mailing list please reply to: mailto:calph7 at yahoo.com?subject=remove From apf2 at apf2.com Thu Dec 17 07:20:56 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:20:56 +0800 Subject: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye (further ideas) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981217144631.006d1ae4@209.204.247.83> Snipped some musings about throwing the NSA a lot of worthless bones to chew on... >We could rotate the tags around, but if we send too many of these, they can >throw you into the above category. > >You could post them anonymously, which makes it much harder for them catalog, >so they will be forced to look at the traffic, when and if, they need to search >it. > >You could have some program randomly alter your email address, but patterns >would be found to filter you out that way. > >We could also use remailers to create lots of cover traffic going to >/dev/null. This would be far more interesting, especially if we add some sort >of poetry writer that spits out spook talk and update it occasionally with >current event keywords. Then again, they could filter the messages that go to >/dev/null, or find patterns in the spook poetry generators... > Now how about instead of dev/null you periodically create free e-mail accounts at hotmail, juno, etc, and send the mail to these "real" addresses. That should give them a little more work at sorting through the chaff. I f there were say 5,000 accounts on each of the top ten free mail sites receiving say 500 chaff letters every day for a month before switching to new account names that would amount to about 25,000,000 mails per day on accounts that would just disappear after awhile. Anyone know how many anonymous remailers there are? I wonder if these bots could be thrown in to help generate the cover traffic to boost anonymity with out sucking up all the available bandwidth. It would seem that this would help address two problems. The problem of insufficient cover traffic on the anonymous remailers and the issue of keeping the jerks at the NSA so busy sniffing up junk that they become less effective at snooping on legitimate communications. Certainly the load of 5,000 bogus accounts on hotmail, which has reportedly in excess of 20 million accounts, would be minimal. I think the biggest issue is whether or not there are sufficient resources to generate this volume of mail through a wide enough re-mailer base to thwart filtering without identifying any particular group of people as the originators of the letters. I think a long term surge of 25 million letters per day which meet their snoop standards would have to create some kind of a bogging effect on their capacities. I don't know what the real numbers are but it might be interesting if say 50 million or fewer total e-mails per day are "captured" for storage by the spooks on a normal day. At that level a surge of 25 million per day would be a 50% increase for handling. What would be the response of the NSA? Some will say that it would be no big deal for the NSA since they could just add more hardware. But I think that any time we can make the haystack significantly bigger that should theoretically make the needle harder to find. And since Cpunks aren't criminals we certainly wouldn't be creating more needles! APF From usura at replay.com Thu Dec 17 10:28:01 1998 From: usura at replay.com (Alex de Joode) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:28:01 +0800 Subject: XS4ALL Message-ID: <199812171734.SAA24745@replay.com> It seems that XS4ALL has been bought by KPN (The Dutch Telco) -aj- From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 17 12:08:16 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:08:16 +0800 Subject: Comrade Klinton at it again Message-ID: <199812171926.UAA00639@replay.com> Comrade Klinton just started another bombing run, curiously after it became widely known that the impeachment hearings wouldn't be delayed until next week. So far, every target hit has been in camera range. NBC said that the Iranian Embassy might have been hit by a Tomahawk. From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 17 12:42:20 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:42:20 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812171941.UAA02032@replay.com> McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time. It also includes PGP Disk, which creates virtual encrypted drives. PGP 6.0.2 also claims to have anti-TEMPEST protection, by using a special font. My question is: what's the catch? It is a fact that Network Associates (McAfee's owner) is a member of the Key Recovery Aliance. Is the decision to give the software away part of something that's not being said (i.e. reduced security) or did I spend $39.99 on PGP and an additional $39.99 on PGP Disk for no reason because it would become available for free two weeks later? And, has anyone tested the anti-TEMPEST features in PGP 6.0.2? From jei at zor.hut.fi Thu Dec 17 13:04:14 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:04:14 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote: > Cypherpunks write code? Make people use it. . . > > > > > ---mib wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote: > > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > > > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > > > up with something better. > > > > Cypherpunks write code? Whoops. Wrong subject. You were talking about the strike against the Wassenaar agreement. Not the Iraqis... :) Duh, duh! Too much TV. I am sorry. :) Well, here's my idea on how to fight the Wassenaar agreement: I think the best method to fight the WA is with education. Educate people. Help them use PGP with their applications. Help integrate PGP into e-mail programs, make it's use easy. I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example: sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some. Also, you could have your sendmail enforce the PGP option that no unsecure servers or forwardings would be considered acceptable, and the e-mail should be returned if such were encountered. This would eliminate at least *some* of the e-mail spooks there. I realize it is no not very good, but it is better than nothing at all. ++ J From jei at zor.hut.fi Thu Dec 17 13:07:59 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:07:59 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote: > Cypherpunks write code? Make people use it. . . > > > > > ---mib wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote: > > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop > > > this tyrrany. I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was > > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come > > > up with something better. Kill Saddam Hussein instead of thousands of normal Iraqi people. Everyone is touting how he is behind every nasty thing that the Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison him. Don't take it out on all the Iraqis. Now, how's that for an alternative? But I doubt it will happen. The UK+USA need an icon, a person to embody as THE international satanic terrorist threat to all civilized nations. Otherwise their current military expenditures would look ridiculously high and unnecessary, now that the Russians don't pose any threat. This is also why terrorist horror scenarios and stories are increasingly used to justify incredible expenditure. The military is engaged in creating a threat to justify their existence and continued economic well-being. Saddam is worth much, much more to them when he is alive and well in Iraq. The fact, however, is that any loony Unabomber cooking some anthrax in his cellar in the US, would be able to harm the US more than the whole nation of Iraqis right now, or in the years to come. Welcome to Echelon and big brother surveillance justification. ++ J From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 17 13:57:10 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:57:10 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq Message-ID: <199812172117.WAA10224@replay.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Rabid Wombat [mailto:wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org] > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 1:04 AM > To: Anonymous > Cc: cypherpunks at EINSTEIN.ssz.com > Subject: RE: Clinton Attacks Iraq > > Was it my imagination, or did the T'Hawk strikes pause for > Bubba's speech? > It seemed like they were coming into Baghdad every half hour, like > clockwork, but they seem to have skipped one half-hour's > worth when Bubba > was on the air. By the order of the new Joint Chief of Staff, the newly commissioned Nielsen rating system, the bombings were halted due to most targets being pointed at the White House for Clinton-mania by select TV viewers nationwide. Once Clinton was off the air the new targetting systems available at select Nielsen homes nationwide resumed proper operation by select War at Home families tuning to their favorite news channels covering sites in Iraq. Unfortunately a select number of viewers took shine to the Iranian Embassy causing a tomahawk's guidance system to be changed and resulting in the destruction of mentioned structure. This will, of course, be blamed on user error at the next press hearing. yours virtually forever (however long that may be), WarMonger "Wag the Dog" was just the beginning... From wburton at pipestream.com Thu Dec 17 14:33:18 1998 From: wburton at pipestream.com (Walter Burton) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:33:18 +0800 Subject: PGP Disk for free?? Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C0DD608@kenny.pipestream.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody at replay.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 2:42 PM > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: > > > McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial > version of PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time. It also > includes PGP Disk, which creates virtual encrypted drives. > PGP 6.0.2 also claims to have anti-TEMPEST protection, by > using a special font. My question is: what's the catch? They feel guilty 'cause there was a flaw in previous versions of PGP Disk. It's a gesture of good will. > It is a fact that Network Associates (McAfee's owner) is a > member of the Key Recovery Aliance. Is the decision to give > the software away part of something that's not being said > (i.e. reduced security) The source for 5.x is freely available, and I expect the source for (at least the free versions of) 6.x will soon be. Now, as far as I'm aware, the source for PGP Disk is not yet available, and probably won't be, since that's a commercial product. Not that that's a GOOD reason ;). > or did I spend $39.99 on PGP and an > additional $39.99 on PGP Disk for no reason because it would > become available for free two weeks later? Bingo. Perhaps they'll give you a refund! > And, has anyone tested the anti-TEMPEST features in PGP 6.0.2? Not I. That would take some serious equipment! I doubt even Phil Zimmerman or Network Associates has tested it thoroughly. Throughout the online help regarding the Secure Viewer and Tempest attacks, they use phrases like "MAY reduce levels of radio frequency emissions" and "MAY make it harder for the signals to be remotely detected" (my emphasis). --- Walter S. Burton For my PGP public key, send a message with the subject "get public key." Fingerprint: 3E28 7C81 536C 92FE ED01 6B70 0E37 DB49 9F6C 8DF8 From mclow at owl.csusm.edu Thu Dec 17 16:06:33 1998 From: mclow at owl.csusm.edu (Marshall Clow) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:06:33 +0800 Subject: PGP Disk for free?? In-Reply-To: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C0DD608@kenny.pipestream.com> Message-ID: At 4:20 PM -0500 12/17/98, Walter Burton wrote: > > The source for 5.x is freely available, and I expect the source for (at > least the free versions of) 6.x will soon be. Now, as far as I'm aware, > the source for PGP Disk is not yet available, and probably won't be, > since that's a commercial product. Not that that's a GOOD reason ;). Go to , and search for PGP. You can buy the printed source code for PGP 6, including PGP Disk. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Freedom isn't being able to do what you like, it's allowing someone else to do or say something you hate and supporting their right to do so. From mdpopescu at geocities.com Thu Dec 17 16:36:48 1998 From: mdpopescu at geocities.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:36:48 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3@roknet.ro> > I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example: > sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give > your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail > encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers > forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some. I think this is a great idea. First time I'll play with making a POP client (an idea that appeals to me once in a while) I'll think about it... Mark From ekkensj at earthlink.net Thu Dec 17 16:42:13 1998 From: ekkensj at earthlink.net (John Holland) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:42:13 +0800 Subject: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 In-Reply-To: <199812171941.UAA02032@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981217154338.00939630@mail.earthlink.net> >McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time. Where is the free version available? Neither the McAfee or Network Associates web sites mentioned this. From nobody at remailer.ch Thu Dec 17 17:21:35 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:21:35 +0800 Subject: "They've started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!" Message-ID: <19981218004409.16492.qmail@hades.rpini.com> "We just intercepted a coded transmission from Earth Force Command. They've started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!" (scene of two fighters on approach to a biodome) Omega One: "Standing by. Weapons hot." Radio: "Don't do it! We have women and children down here! Don't do it!" Radio2: "Omega One, you are clear for drop." (weapons fly, killing a few thousand innocent men, women, and children.) It amazes me how much similarity Babylon 5 has to reality. Is Clinton a fan who fancies himself as President Clark? I'm starting to worry. From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Dec 17 17:28:32 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:28:32 +0800 Subject: Comrade Klinton at it again Message-ID: <3679A712.25C4@lsil.com> Don't you mean "Iraqui" Embassy? Or is this thing spreading? I hope not. Comrade Klinton is no worse than Comrades Hyde, Ingliss, Gingrich, Coble, Bono, well you know the rest. They all call themselves statesmen but they are pretty damned pedestrian. **************** Comrade Klinton just started another bombing run, curiously after it became widely known that the impeachment hearings wouldn't be delayed until next week. So far, every target hit has been in camera range. NBC said that the Iranian Embassy might have been hit by a Tomahawk. From riburr at shentel.net Thu Dec 17 17:33:04 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:33:04 +0800 Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq In-Reply-To: <199812172117.WAA10224@replay.com> Message-ID: <3679A6BD.3CED0FC8@shentel.net> There is limited outrage being expressed by some members of the UN Security Council over the use of UN weapons monitoring information to strike targets in Iraq. The latest US military action in Iraq, dubbed Desert Fox, utilized information acquired from UNSCOM weapons inspection teams to develop targeting priorities and improve strike precision. Specifically, positioning data from GPS receivers used by weapons inspectors at inspection sites in Iraq provided precise targeting coordinates for US cruise missiles. Information from UN inspectors was also used to prioritize targets into several categories, including: High threat defensive sites such as antiaircraft missile and radar facilities, medium threat command and communications sites, and low threat power and manufacturing plants. GPS data was essential for targeting high threat sites located near residential areas. Some suggestion has been made to sequester the GPS receivers, some of which may store a record of use in memory. A case is being made that, in the instance of Desert Fox, the use of UN property and UN operations aided and increased the likelihood and effectiveness of military force. Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector, was interviewed on NBC's Today show on Dec. 17. Mr. Ritter said, �The U.S. has perverted the U.N. weapons inspection process by using it as a tool to justify military action, falsely so.� And, for those who require it ;-) From maxinux at openpgp.net Thu Dec 17 18:07:58 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:07:58 +0800 Subject: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981217154338.00939630@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, John Holland wrote: >>McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of >PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time. > >Where is the free version available? Neither the McAfee or Network >Associates web sites mentioned this. well since mcafee and NAI are the same freekin company, they do all say it goto the pgp pages (easy link -> www.pgp.com) download PGP For personal privacy, it is under that link. www.pgpi.com has illegally exported copies aswell. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Dec 17 18:09:48 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:09:48 +0800 Subject: Howdy neighbor! Can I borrow an egg, some sugar, and a SCSI cable? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:32:14 -0500 To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Subject: Howdy neighbor! Can I borrow an egg, some sugar, and a SCSI cable? Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:36:36 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Nev Dull Forwarded-by: "Kevin D. Clark" Source: http://online.guardian.co.uk/theweb/911396071-geekville.html Leander Kahney inspects a des. res. for hackers House fit for a mouse TO RENT: apartment; sleeps 2.8 computers; unique address (on the Web); Linux in all rooms; only geeks need apply. This isn't quite how Walden Internet Village advertises itself but it is how the complex sees itself: 'run by geeks for geeks'. The 12-building complex in Houston, Texas, boasts pleasant decor and beautiful landscaped gardens but for the tenants it is trying to attract the most important feature will be the way it is wired for the future, offering the kind of high-speed Internet access enjoyed only by big companies and universities. "It's a community for hackers," says Alan LeFort, marketing director and network administrator. "It's not easy to find a place where your neighbours are Perl programmers or Linux freaks." Every apartment has a 10 Megabit per second pipe to the Internet -- a connection about 175 times faster than the standard 56k modem. It also has assigned its own unique Web address, so residents can run their own Web sites from inside their apartments. "We don't care what they run as long as its not a porn site," LeFort said. All apartments also have wiring built into the walls for their own little home network. "The average resident has 2.8 machines," LeFort says. "They like to connect them together." The complex also offers several big computers on an internal network, one dedicated to the game Quake and another for storing the GNU/Linux software favoured by most tenants. The few running Windows NT will have to be "educated", LeFort said. At first sight, Texas with its cowboy image, might seem an unlikely place for a geek community. But Houston is home to Nasa's Johnson Space Center, Compaq, and a major axis for the engineering, medical, and, of course, the oil and energy industries. Already geeks have snapped up about half the 200 apartments. The company hopes to fill the rest with geeks as non-hackers' leases expire. Rents range from $675 (L409) per month for a one-bedroom flat to $1,400 a month for a three-bedroom, two-bathroom home. The complex boasts an active social life. Every fortnight is party night when up to 50 people turn up with their computers and hook them into a fast Local Area Network for playing games. Walden is a pilot project. The company owns five other complexes in Houston and is considering re-wiring three of them for hackers. Visit Walden Internet Villages at http://www.waldenweb.com and two of the complex's game sites at http://www.gamerscircle.com, http://www.quake2.com 18 November 1998 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From whgiii at openpgp.net Thu Dec 17 18:16:36 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:16:36 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3@roknet.ro> Message-ID: <199812180028.TAA009.26@whgiii> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3 at roknet.ro>, on 12/18/98 at 01:26 AM, "Marcel Popescu" said: >> I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example: >> sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give >> your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail >> encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers >> forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some. >I think this is a great idea. First time I'll play with making a POP >client (an idea that appeals to me once in a while) I'll think about >it... Wouldn't it be more efficient to use TLS or SSH as an encryption protocol between the POP3d and the POP3 client? This could also be used for sendmail<->sendmail transactions. This still does not address local storage on the POP3d server. I am looking to setting up procmail to automatically PGP encrypt incomming messages and the forwarding them to a local account so even if the sender does not have PGP once the message is received by the PGP mail forwarder the messages will be PGP encrypted (I have had several people contact me looking for solutions to ISP's snooping on their mail without relying on the senders using PGP). - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain. Windows: Your brain on drugs. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 Charset: cp850 wj8DBQE2eZOrlHpjA6A1ypsRAgVDAKCpsNkbUjYCe77XBFHXnQDjZveHIwCg81zI UQM3ssGqYt/sQ+674XepePs= =GLQh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From athena at cyberpass.net Thu Dec 17 18:23:59 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:23:59 +0800 Subject: bears repeating, part 2 Message-ID: another try: An alternative to the pyramid form of organization is the cell system. In the past, many political groups (both left and right) have used the cell system to further their objectives. Two examples will suffice. During the American Revolution, "committees of correspondence" were formed throughout the Thirteen Colonies. Their purpose was to subvert the government and thereby aid the cause of independence. The "Sons of Liberty," who made a name for themselves by dumping government taxed tea into the harbor at Boston, were the action arm of the committees of correspondence. Each committee was a secret cell that operated totally independently of the other cells. Information on the government was passed from committee to committee, from colony to colony, and then acted upon on a local basis. Yet even in those bygone days of poor communication, of weeks to months for a letter to be delivered, the committees, without any central direction whatsoever, were remarkably similar in tactics employed to resist government tyranny. It was, as the first American Patriots knew, totally unnecessary for anyone to give an order for anything. Information was made available to each committee, and each committee acted as it saw fit. A recent example of the cell system taken from the left wing of politics are the Communists. The Communists, in order to get around the obvious problems involved in pyramidal organization, developed to an art the cell system. They had numerous independent cells which operated completely isolated from one another and particularly with no knowledge of each other, but were orchestrated together by a central headquarters. For instance, during WWII, in Washington, it is known that there were at least six secret Communist cells operating at high levels in the United States government (plus all the open Communists who were protected and promoted by President Roosevelt), however, only one of the cells was rooted out and destroyed. How many more actually were operating, no one can say for sure. The Communist cells which operated in the U.S. until late 1991 under Soviet control could have at their command a leader who held a social position which appeared to be very lowly. He could be, for example, a busboy in a restaurant, but in reality a colonel or a general in the Soviet Secret Service, the KGB. Under him could be a number of cells, and a person active in one cell would almost never have knowledge of individuals who were active in other cells; in fact, the members of the other cells would be supporting that cell which was under attack and ordinarily would lend very strong support to it in many ways. This is at least part of the reason, no doubt, that whenever in the past Communists were attacked in this country, support for them sprang up in many unexpected places. The effective and efficient operation of a cell system after the Communist model is, of course, dependent upon central direction, which means impressive organization, funding from the top, and outside support, all of which the Communists had. Obviously, American patriots have none of these things at the top or anywhere else, and so an effective cell organization based upon the Soviet system of operation is impossible. Two things become clear from the above discussion. First, that the pyramid form of organization can be penetrated quite easily and it thus is not a sound method of organization in situations where the government has the resources and desire to penetrate the structure, which is the situation in this country. Secondly, that the normal qualifications for the cell structure based upon the Red model does not exist in the U.S. for patriots. This understood, the question arises "What method is left for those resisting state tyranny?" The answer comes from Col. Amoss who proposed the "Phantom Cell" mode of organization which he described as Leaderless Resistance. A system of organization that is based upon the cell organization, but does not have any central control or direction, that is in fact almost identical to the methods used by the committees of correspondence during the American Revolution. Utilizing the Leaderless Resistance concept, all individuals and groups operate independently of each other, and never report to a central head-quarters or single leader for direction or instruction, as would those who belong to a typical pyramid organization. At first glance, such a form of organization seems unrealistic, primarily because there appears to be no organization. The natural question thus arises as to how are the "Phantom Cells" and individuals to cooperate with each other when there is no inter-communication or central direction? The answer to this question is that participants in a program of leaderless resistance through "Phantom Cell" or individual action must know exactly what they are doing and how to do it. It becomes the responsibility of the individual to acquire the necessary skills and information as to what is to be done. This is by no means as impractical as it appears, because it is certainly true that in any movement all persons involved have the same general outlook, are acquainted with the same philosophy, and generally react to given situations in similar ways. The previous history of the committees of correspondence during the American Revolution shows this to be true. Since the entire purpose of leaderless resistance is to defeat state tyranny (at least in so far as this essay is concerned), all members of phantom cells or individuals will tend to react to objective events in the same way through usual tactics of resistance. Organs of information distribution such as newspapers, leaflets, computers, etc., which are widely available to all, keep each person informed of events, allowing for a planned response that will take many variations. No one need issue an order to anyone. Those idealists truly committed to the cause of freedom will act when they feel the time is ripe, or will take their cue from others who precede them. While it is true that much could be said against this kind of structure as a method of resistance, it must be kept in mind that leaderless resistance is a child of necessity. The alternatives to it have been shown to be unworkable or impractical. Leaderless resistance has worked before in the American Revolution, and if the truly committed put it to use themselves, it will work now. #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From vortexia at doxx.net Thu Dec 17 18:27:05 1998 From: vortexia at doxx.net (Vortexia) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:27:05 +0800 Subject: Encryption chip Message-ID: <000801be2a26$05fad100$973402c4@vort.nis.za> Does anyone know if there is some kind of chip, or IC commercially available that does secure encryption? Thanx Andrew Alston From ti3882 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 18 10:38:40 1998 From: ti3882 at yahoo.com (ti3882 at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:38:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: your web site Message-ID: <199812181834.KAA09451@toad.com> We'll Submit Your Site To Over 900 Search Engines, Directories, & Indices For A "One Time Cost" Of Only $39.95 *** 100% Money Back Guarantee *** *** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure *** For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search Engines, Directories & Indices. If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines, how can people find you to buy your products or services? For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your back instead of you trying to do it manually which can take days to do. We're the professionals that are here to help you have a shot at having a successful marketing experience with the internet. You know as well as we that your time is best utilized managing your business and not sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours trying to save less than 4 cents for each submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try to tackle this on your own. It's just not cost effective to try to do this yourself to save just $39.95. See why thousands and thousands of businesses world wide both large and small have come to us to utilize our services. Hotels, Motels, On-Line Stores, Travel Agents, Colleges, Universities, Governments, Fortune 500 companies, Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many, many more. Shouldn't you give us a call now? To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below. Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA and Canada or outside the USA at (916) 771-4739 and we'll provide you with all the necessary information to get you submitted Right Away. To be removed from our mailing list, please respond with the word remove in the subject. From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Thu Dec 17 18:43:46 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:43:46 +0800 Subject: Comrade Klinton at it again Message-ID: <94b152b25895bf0f093f3a7186ddfaef@anonymous> >Don't you mean "Iraqui" Embassy? > >Or is this thing spreading? I hope not. > >Comrade Klinton is no worse than Comrades Hyde, Ingliss, Gingrich, >Coble, Bono, well you know the rest. They all call themselves statesmen >but they are pretty damned pedestrian. An NBC reporter in Baghdad reported that the Iranian embassy was hit by a Tomahawk, but I've had the news off since then and haven't heard anything else about it. The Klinton White House won't come out and admit that they missed, just like they won't admit that a Tomahawk landed in someone's house last night (again according to NBC). You are wrong, though. Comrade Klinton is worse than Comrade Hyde and the rest. The loyal card-carrying Party members in congress are limited in power because the majority of them have to agree on an issue. Comrade Klinton can do virtually whatever he wants with the military under the War Powers Act and doesn't have to answer for it until it's all over. As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname held by a Nazi general. Fitting, that. From vortexia at doxx.net Thu Dec 17 19:06:28 1998 From: vortexia at doxx.net (Vortexia) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:06:28 +0800 Subject: Encryption Chip (details) Message-ID: <002f01be2a30$4339a280$973402c4@vort.nis.za> Sorry to follow up my own post, but it was brought to my attention that there are a number of encryption chips available and I would need to be more specific to get any specific information. I am looking for a chip that can do DES, Triple DES and/or Blowfish for the purpose of secure communications. We want an IC instead of software because of the volume of information that will have to be processed in this project. If anyone has any information please drop me an email Thanks Andrew Alston From hrook at exchange.microsoft.com Thu Dec 17 19:21:58 1998 From: hrook at exchange.microsoft.com (Harvey Rook (Exchange)) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:21:58 +0800 Subject: "They've started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!" Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19ADE1@DINO> The scene from Babylon 5 is hardly original. The same thing happened in Vietnam, The Korean War, WW2, WW1.... This is war, and in war innocent people die to further the cause of the leaders. You just have to hope and pray that some good will come out of it. Harv. > -----Original Message----- > From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody at remailer.ch] > > "We just intercepted a coded transmission from Earth Force > Command. They've > started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!" > > (scene of two fighters on approach to a biodome) > > Omega One: "Standing by. Weapons hot." > Radio: "Don't do it! We have women and children down here! > Don't do it!" > Radio2: "Omega One, you are clear for drop." > > (weapons fly, killing a few thousand innocent men, women, and > children.) > > It amazes me how much similarity Babylon 5 has to reality. Is > Clinton a fan > who fancies himself as President Clark? I'm starting to worry. > From helm at fionn.es.net Thu Dec 17 19:23:10 1998 From: helm at fionn.es.net (Michael Helm) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:23:10 +0800 Subject: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812180248.SAA17913@fionn.es.net> Max Inux writes: > it goto the pgp pages (easy link -> www.pgp.com) download PGP For personal > privacy, it is under that link. I think you're going to be disappointed if you go there; the pgp web page has been swallowed by nai's, & download leads you to the new McAfee store, which is surely a nominee for "web pages that suck"(tm). No free downloads. There may be something under one of the evaluation pages, but frankly the whole site turned me off & I didn't care to look so. It's hard to find any mention of pgp at all, actually. From jim at acm.org Thu Dec 17 19:54:12 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:54:12 +0800 Subject: Comrade Klinton at it again Message-ID: <3679C4D9.C2E1596@acm.org> Somebody said: > As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname held by a Nazi general. > Fitting, that. Fitting? I find the occasional anti-American hyperbole around here rather depressing. I'm reminded of 30-year-old engineers talking about the depression of the 80's! If you don't see the difference between the US and Nazi Germany, you need to do a lot more reading. While the anti-privacy activities of the administration and law enforcement are threatening and need to be resisted, they are by no means on a par with the excesses of the Nazi leadership. In any case, Gen. Erwin Rommel (the Desert Fox) was never a Nazi. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 28 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 02:48 12.19.5.14.0, 6 Ahau 13 Mac, First Lord of Night From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Dec 17 20:39:06 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:06 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] Y2K Fear May Trigger Early Panic Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03860@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Lyn McCloskey Subject: [CTRL] Y2K Fear May Trigger Early Panic Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:50:58 -0500 To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- Technology Headlines Monday December 14 10:18 AM ET Fear Of Year 2000 Computer Bug May Trigger Early Panic By Neil Winton, Science and Technology Correspondent LONDON (Reuters) - Even if the ``millennium bomb'' does not explode in the world's computers just over a year from now, 1999 is likely to see rising panic as people take precautions against computer failure triggered by the year 2000. Experts say the most vulnerable countries include Japan, France, Russia and Brazil and the most vulnerable sectors are utilities, especially power generation. ``Next year we will see periods of calm broken by occasional news stories predicting computer systems failures,'' said Ross Anderson of Cambridge University's Computer Security Research Center. ``My own feeling is that around August or September panic will start, with hoarding of food and bank notes. Then the whole thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.'' The time bomb has trivial origins. In the early days of computing, programs saved what was then precious space by abbreviating years to the last two digits. They knew this could cause problems at the turn of the century because computers would read ``00'' as ``1900'' rather than ``2000'' and crash or spew out flawed data. But they thought these programs would be history by then as technology raced ahead. They were wrong. Now the fear is that old data systems carrying the millennium bomb or bug could trigger disasters around the world in everything from defense, transport and telecommunications to energy and financial services. As 1999 progresses, early trigger dates are likely to provide sneak previews of the chaos that may hit as clocks strike midnight on Dec. 31. The first is Jan. 1, 1999. Programs used in some accounting systems operate a rolling year ahead as they set renewal dates for insurance premiums or bank loans and may crash when they reach out beyond Jan. 1, 2000. Margaret Joachim, Year 2000 coordinator at data processing services company Electronic Data Systems Corp. (NYSE:EDS - news), says there are other dates next year that might trigger computer failure. ``April 9, 1999, the 99th day of the year, and Sept. 9, 1999, which might be recorded as 9-9-99. This is because programmers often used nines as a cutoff for a program. A row of nines meant 'don't do this anymore,''' Joachim said. The world is in differing states of readiness. Information technology consultancy Gartner Group says the United States is best prepared, followed by Canada, Australia, South Africa, Israel and Britain. At the bottom of the list is Brazil, the world's eighth largest economy and a big producer of industrial components, commodities and grains. Brazil is unlikely to be able to confine problems within its borders, according to a recent report by Edward Yardeni, chief economist for Deutsche Morgan Grenfell in New York. Japan's lack of action is also causing concern. The Japanese government said last month that important industries like finance, transport, energy, telecommunications and medicine were lagging in year 2000 preparation. Hong Kong's government has said 80 percent of its critical computer systems were ready for 2000 as of Sept. 30, 1998, but it is worried about small and medium-sized businesses. India does not expect much damage because of its small number of computers -- only around 2.3 million in a nation of about 950 million. But India's ``brain trust'' of software makers have bagged orders worth $1.5 billion to fix year 2000 problems around the world, said Dewang Mehta, executive director of the National Association of Software and Service Companies. In China, authorities have decreed that all government computer systems must be fixed by March and tests completed by September 1999. Cambridge University's Anderson said France was most at risk in Western Europe, with computer failures most likely in the public sector and especially public utilities. Any problems could quickly become a problem for neighbors such as Britain, which receives electric power from France. ``There is still quite a question mark over whether France sees the scale of the problem,'' said Chris Webster, head of year 2000 services at Cap Gemini. ``There's a real chance that there may be some loss of service from utilities. Who, when, where or why? Impossible to say. Will it be a complete loss of power, voltage fluctuations? And there is a remarkable lack of information from utilities as to what they are expecting to happen.'' JP Morgan's Year 2000 expert Patrick Ward says Eastern Europe's and Russia's utilities are a big concern, not least because Russia provides 40 percent of Germany's power. If some systems crashes are triggered early by the arrival of Jan. 1, 1999, it might be a blessing in disguise. ``This will involve accounting, planning and budgeting systems rather than operational executing systems, which carry out day-to-day business. It will give you some experience in spotting the errors and knowing how to deal with them,'' Webster said. But Anderson is taking no chances: ``Personally, I plan to have three months' food, a working well, three tons of calor (heating) gas and 400 liters of diesel come the dreadful day.'' DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Dec 17 20:39:38 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:38 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] The Siege: PsyOps Movie Prepares U.S. for Martial Law Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03827@netcom13.netcom.com> From: RoadsEnd at AOL.COM Subject: [CTRL] The Siege: PsyOps Movie Prepares U.S. for Martial Law Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:06:29 EST To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- from: http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.42/pageone.html Laissez Faire City Times - Volume 2 Issue 42 The Laissez Faire City Times December 14, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 42 Editor & Chief: Emile Zola ----- The Siege: PsyOps Movie Prepares U.S. for Martial Law by Uri Dowbenko The Siege is a slick commercial for the American Police State. Starting with actual newsclips intermixed with movie footage, a radical fundamentalist Muslim cleric is taken hostage. President Clinton -- out of context -- says "I am outraged by it," a speech he made after the Oklahoma City Bombing. Then he says, "Those who did it must not be allowed to go unpunished." That was the stump speech for his so-called Anti-Terrorism Bill, which didn't have a chance of passing before the Bombing. The mix of "real" newsclips intercut with movie footage -- a muezzin's calls to prayer and subsequent scenes of slaughter in the desert -- makes an unsubtle direct correlation between Muslims and terrorism. Cut to Manhattan. FBI man Anthony Hubbard (Denzel Washington) has to deal with a hostage crisis and a bus bomb which turns out to be a ruse. His partner is Lebanese, an Arab-American named Frank Haddad (Tony Shalhoub) who is gung-ho and acts as a translator -- until they grab his kid and put him in the New York Concentration Camp. Understandably that sours him on the FBI. Soon enough there's interagency rivalry with CIA woman Elise Kraft (Annette Bening). She tells the FBI man that "we're on the same team," but they both know it's a lie. He tells her "CIA has no charter to operate domestically." Yuck yuck -- as if that ever kept the CIA from engaging in criminal activities on US soil. The subtext of the movie, grounded in real-life history, is that CIA financed and trained indigenous "rebel" movements around the world, then unceremoniously betrayed them when US policy changed. The betrayed CIA "terrorists" then typically returned to US soil becoming pawns in elaborate spy agency games, which most recently resulted in the New York World Trade Center Bombing and the Oklahoma City Bombing. Later, in a flash of realization about her own culpability, the CIA woman says to Samir (Sami Bouajila), one of the suspected "terrorists": "Don't tell me we financed your operation?" He smiles disbelievingly at her naivete. Disinformation rules in The Siege. Here are the most obvious propaganda factoids. 1. Demonizing the Militia. Continuing the mainstream-media propaganda, Denzel Washington asks his fellow feds in the FBI office, "You think it's militia?" "Not their style," they answer, as if most militas were capable of "terrorism" without the active participation by undercover CIA, FBI, or BATF agent provocateurs. 2. Demonizing the Internet. "Everybody on the Internet knows explosives," says Washington, spreading the lie about how the Internet is a tool of subversion and therefore must be controlled. Department of Justice has lobbied long and hard for anti-internet, anti-cryptography legislation. 3. Demonizing Cash. "Where does a guy like you come up with ten thousand dollars?" the FBI man berates the Arab suspect, implying that cash anywhere is immediately suspect. According to US State Propaganda, only "terrorists" or "money launderers" use cash. This reinforces the suspicion in moviegoers' minds that only "criminals" would have any concerns about privacy. General Devereaux (Bruce Willis) takes over when a state of emergency and martial law is declared in Manhattan. There's a couple of throwaway lines -- complete with requisite handwringing -- about Posse Comitatus -- the law which mandates that US troops can not be used against US citizens -- and how President Lincoln suspended habeus corpus, an unchallenged precedent for martial law. Willis says "We can't go in until the president invokes the War Powers Act." Does that mean the country is still operating under war and emergency powers? Dr. Eugene Schroeder's controversial book Constitution: Fact or Fiction (Buffalo Creek Press, PO BOx 2424, Cleburne, Texas 76033) explains this provocative thesis. He says that the reason why the US has gone downhill, becoming in essence an unconstitutional dictatorship, is because "since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared National Emergency," according to Senate Report 93-549. The Siege is really a turf war -- not between gangs -- but between Feds. It's FBI vs. CIA vs. National Security Council vs. America. The civil rights context -- Is martial law justified? Under what circumstances? -- is merely window dressing for the real question -- How will the Feds split up the country? The movie shows that escalating acts of "terrorism" in America are eerily similar to the Reichstag Fire in pre-WWII Germany, a rationale for a totalitarian-state power grab. In America, it would simply be the pretext for dispensing with that pesky US Constitution altogether. Willis finally says, "I am declaring a state of martial law." US soldiers invade Brooklyn. Lines of camo-clad grunts march across the Brooklyn Bridge, while Humvees patrol Wall Street. After capturing an Arab suspect, Willis says, "The time has come for one man to suffer to save hundreds." That's his rationale for torture. The FBI man says, "Bend the law. Shred the Constitution. If we torture him, everything we fought for is over," implying speciously that the "terrorists" will win. As if... as if New York Police brutality has never been committed. As if CIA atrocities were never done. As if FBI criminal behavior was never covered up. Reinforcing the bogus cover story of a "truck bomb" blowing up the Oklahoma City Federal Building, there's -- you guessed it -- a truck bomb in The Siege which destroys One Federal Plaza in New York. David Hoffman's indispensable book The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror (Feral House, 2532 Lincoln Blvd., Suite 359, Venice, CA 90291, 800-788-6246; $18.95) demolishes this fraudulent theory and dissects the elements of another US Government covert ops gone bad. In his ground-breaking 509-page book, Hoffman describes the the stewpot of CIA, FBI, BATF, Neo-Nazi, Arab, Israeli, and German intelligence operatives, as well as the US Government's ludicrous "Single Bomb Theory." Like Arlen Spector's infamous "Single Bullet Theory" about the bullet which made a U-Turn inside President Kennedy's body, this "fertilizer bomb theory" is just as dopey. Fertilizer - - as in BS -- is the theory's primary ingredient. Director Ed Zwick specializes in making Establishment-propaganda movies. Glory was about African-Americans brainwashed to fight the Civil War. Courage Under Fire was about all kinds of Americans brainwashed to fight in the Gulf War. Denzel Washington's a veteran; he's been in both movies. In The Siege, Zwick cranks up the xenophobia. Despite its pretensions as a politically-correct parable for "tolerance," The Siege demonizes both Arabs and Muslims. Zwick and film producer Lynda Obst have made a movie which is state-of- the-art PsyOps for the masses. Psychological Operations (PsyOps) is a military term for non-lethal warfare. It's just masquerading as "entertainment." -30- from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol. 2, No. 42, Dec. 14, 1998 ----- The Laissez Faire City Times is a private newspaper. Although it is published by a corporation domiciled within the sovereign domain of Laissez Faire City, it is not an "official organ" of the city or its founding trust. Just as the New York Times is unaffiliated with the city of New York, the City Times is only one of what may be several news publications located in, or domiciled at, Laissez Faire City proper. For information about LFC, please contact CityClerk at LFCity.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Published by Laissez Faire City Netcasting Group, Inc. Copyright 1998 - Trademark Registered with LFC Public Registrar All Rights Reserved ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Dec 17 20:39:49 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:49 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] Polygamous Paradise! Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03816@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Lyn McCloskey Subject: [CTRL] Polygamous Paradise! Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:35:12 -0500 To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- Take a number... http://www.tabloid.net/1998/12/09/island_981209.html NEW UTOPIA RISES FROM THE SEA �Prince� Lazarus Promises to Save Citizens from Death, Taxes MATT WELCH reports [Dec. 9, 1998] -- Don't worry, people: Despite delays caused by Hurricane Mitch, New Utopia will still rise from the waters of the sea in time to beat the millennial apocalypse. Lazarus Long, a wealthy 67-year-old Oklahoman whose name was Howard Turney until three years ago, says his longtime dream of constructing a libertarian island paradise on top of three shallow Caribbean reefs has been only slightly postponed by the hurricane's effects on New Utopia's neighbors. "We were in the process of negotiating a trade treaty with the Honduran government officials," New Utopia Information Officer Grace Caswell wrote on the island's website. "Prince Lazarus had gone to Washington to meet with the Honduran ambassador to the U.S. He, in turn, was to present it to President Flores on November 1st. That is the day that the hurricane 'Mitch' struck their country." "Honduras claims a 200-mile exclusive economic zone, so without recognition of New Utopia as a sovereign nation we can't begin construction without risk of being annexed by Honduras at some future date." If it sounds like these people are talking about building their own country on a fake island in the sea -- well, that's because they are. Once an agreement with Honduras is reached, the founders say, the reefs will be fitted with steel girders and gigantic platforms of pre-fabricated concrete. Construction of air and sea ports will commence, followed by housing, a university, an anti-aging clinic, offshore banks and a casino. Citizens will live in a tax-free constitutional monarchy not too far off the coasts of Mexico and Honduras. Marijuana will be legal and polygamy tolerated. The Ageless Sovereign His Royal Highness Prince Lazarus Long wants it known that he is not joking. As Howard Turney, he had a long and successful career as a maverick businessman after initial stints as a cowboy and soldier. He was in the restaurant biz, marketed groceries, farmed shrimp and sold used generators, before having his life changed by the human growth hormone, London's Independent reported. In 1990, at the age of 59, Turney was a badly aging mess, with a 44-inch waist and shaky hands, the paper reported. After reading a report about the magic of the then-illegal human growth hormone, Long got a connection in Monterey, Mexico and began mainlining the stuff. Now, without exercising seriously, he's lost the shakes, has rock-hard muscles and a 32-inch waist, the paper said. "I'm 66 going on 40," he told the Independent. "And I've not had any negative side effects at all." Moved, Turney founded a network of anti-aging clinics administering the wonder drug, and made a bundle. It was then that he really began identifying with one of the signature heroes of the novels of libertarian sci-fi scribbler Robert A. Heinlein -- Lazarus Long. In "Methuselah's Children," and especially "Time Enough for Love," Heinlein's Long holds forth as an ageless man of wisdom and sex, hurtling through the centuries with fabulous naked babes on his arm, and dispensing philosophical tidbits with wit and humor. At age 64, Howard Turney became Lazarus Long; soon after he declared himself prince of the New Utopia. As a dispenser of his own wisdom, Long echoes many modern-day followers of objectivist Ayn Rand when they try to talk about foreign affairs: "The United States used to prosper because it was relatively free in an unfree world," he writes on the website. "Now, without changing much itself, the U.S. is relatively unfree in a much freer world. This creates a competitive condition, which tends to favor an enclave like Hong Kong, which practices true free market capitalism, rather than a welfare state like the U.S., which is committed to burdensome taxes, which penalize success." Long tries his hand at a sort of poetry: "Excellence can be attained if you care more than others think is wise Risk more than others think is safe Dream more than others think is practical Expect more than others think is possible." A Tropical Venice New Utopia already has a constitution, a board of governors and more than 500 citizens, the website says. Prospective residents need only to buy a $1,500 five-year bond, payable at 9.5% compound annual interest. The projected price tag on creating an island where there is now only water is $216 billion, which will be financed by Long, citizens, prospective businesses and old-fashioned real estate developers. Offshore finance, tourism, medicine and education are targeted as the main sectors of New Utopia's economy, and Long plans on building a stimulating environment for the super-citizens. Utopians will enjoy "classical architecture, immaculate public parks, a comparable governing body, and a stable political structure, with the same freedom from crime and taxation," the site says. "Resident citizens and visitors will experience it more as a tropical 'Venice,' complete with waterways and gondolas." Free from messy bureaucracy like property taxes, welfare rolls and industry regulation, residents will serve as guinea pigs for the newest drugs and surgical techniques. "There are things on the horizon that people today can only dream about," Long told the Independent. "We are not that far from being able to live multiples of what we look at now as the maximum lifespan. ... [There are] things I can't tell you about because they were told me in confidence. ... Tests and studies are going on. ... Turn your tape recorder off." For now, New Utopia planners will continue processing immigration requests from their office in East Tulsa, Oklahoma. The first concrete platform is now scheduled for January, though the date has now been pushed back at least six different times. And the pesky Hondurans, currently distracted by the brutal wreckage of Hurricane Mitch, still need to recognize New Utopia's sovereignty. Still, "We are steadfast in our date of December 1, 1999 as the celebration of our birth as a nation. Even if all the desired infrastructure is not in place, it will be in the construction phase, the airport will be finished and the government will be in office." ----------------- Get in line at the official website: http://www.new-utopia.com/ DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Dec 17 20:39:51 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:51 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03849@netcom13.netcom.com> From: RoadsEnd at AOL.COM Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:51:31 EST To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_913783891_boundary Content-ID: <0_913783891 at inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_913783891_boundary Content-ID: <0_913783891 at inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: DasGOAT at aol.com Return-path: To: RoadsEnd at aol.com Cc: Robalini at aol.com, nessie at sfbg.com Subject: DNA Sample with Every Arrest Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:57:15 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "Michael Meyers of the New York Civil Rights Coalition said citizens nationwide are experiencing a crackdown on civil rights. ``I think this is the official ushering in of a George Orwellian society. We will all be suspects in a matter of years.'' . NYC Wants DNA in All Arrests NEW YORK (AP) -- Angering civil libertarians who fear ``1984''-style tactics, Police Commissioner Howard Safir is suggesting that police take a DNA sample along with the fingerprints of everyone arrested. ``The innocent have nothing to fear,'' Safir said Monday. ``Only if you are guilty should you worry about DNA testing.'' But civil rights leaders said even the innocent should worry about the plan, which some contend amounts to an unreasonable search and seizure in violation of the Fourth Amendment. The proposal would need approval from the state Legislature to become reality. ``I think this is the official ushering in of a George Orwellian society in New York City,'' said Michael Meyers, executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's administration has come under fire recently for cutting City Hall off from virtually all public access and for installing more security cameras to monitor streets. Norman Siegel, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said the DNA proposal is the latest effort by the Giuliani administration to erode civil rights. ``If someone wants to march and doesn't have a permit, or if someone goes to the steps of City Hall to read a proclamation, he or she will get arrested,'' Siegel said. ``Under Safir's DNA proposal, the government will obtain their DNA, and that's a frightening prospect. Why should the government have that information on that individual?'' Giuliani called opponents of the plan captives of ``old left-wing thinking.'' ``The taking of DNA evidence -- from the point of view of anyone but the most excessive knee-jerk ideologues -- is a very, very helpful thing, it's a good thing,'' he said. ``DNA can help prove who actually committed violent crime; it can help prove paternity.'' Under Safir's plan, which he described Monday to students at the Bronx High School of Science, police would take a swabbing from inside a suspect's cheek -- a standard method of collecting DNA -- and put test results into a database for future reference against repeat offenders. DNA, the unique genetic blueprint of each person, is considered by legal and forensics experts to be as reliable as fingerprints and far more useful in identifying culprits of certain crimes. Safir said a suspect's DNA sample would be destroyed if he were acquitted or cleared. Many states allow DNA testing of certain convicts, New York among them. Only in Louisiana does the testing apply to people under arrest. Meyers said citizens nationwide are experiencing a crackdown on civil rights. ``We will all be suspects in a matter of years,'' he said. --part0_913783891_boundary-- DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Dec 17 20:42:41 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:42:41 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] NSA Charter from Wiretap Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03838@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard" Subject: [CTRL] NSA Charter from Wiretap Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:41:47 -0500 To: CTRL at LISTSERV.AOL.COM -Caveat Lector- From: telecom at eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Moderator) Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Subject: FOIA Jewel: Original Charter of the National Security Agency Message-ID: <3748 at accuvax.nwu.edu> Date: 11 Feb 90 18:15:00 GMT Organization: TELECOM Digest Lines: 322 X-Telecom-Digest: Special Edition: Birth of NSA {{ This is a special edition of TELECOM Digest sent to the mailing }} {{ list this date. Although not strictly telecom-related, I thought }} {{ Usenet comp.dcom.telecom readers would enjoy seeing it. PT }} TELECOM Digest Sun, 11 Feb 90 11:35:18 CST Special: Birth of NSA Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson FOIA Jewel: Original Charter of the National Security Agency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Feb 90 00:03 EST From: CJS at cwru.bitnet Subject: FOIA Jewel: Original Charter of the National Security Agency At 12:01 ON the morning of November 4, 1952, a new federal agency was born. Unlike other such bureaucratic births, however, this one arrived in silence. No news coverage, no congressional debate, no press announcement, not even the whisper of a rumor. Nor could any mention of the new organization be found in the Government Organization Manual of the Federal Register or the Congressional Record. Equally invisible were the new agency's director, its numerous buildings, and its ten thousand employees. Eleven days earlier, on October 24, President Harry S Truman scratched his signature on the bottom of a seven-page presidential memorandum addressed to secretary of State Dean G. Acheson and Secretary of Defense Robert A. Lovett. Classified top secret and stamped with a code word that was itself classified, the order directed the establishment of an agency to be known as the National Security Agency. It was the birth certificate for America's newest and most secret agency, so secret in fact that only a handful in the government would be permitted to know of its existence. -James Bamford, The Puzzle Palace (1982) at 15. ***************************************************************** A 20707 5/4/54/OSO NSA TS CONTL. NO 73-00405 COPY: D321 Oct 24 1952 MEMORANDUM FOR: The Secretary of State The Secretary of Defense SUBJECT: Communications Intelligence Activities The communications intelligence (COMINT) activities of the United States are a national responsibility. They must be so organized and managed as to exploit to the maximum the available resources in all participating departments and agencies and to satisfy the legitimate intelligence requirements of all such departments and agencies. I therefore designate the Secretaries of State and Defense as a Special Committee of the National Security Council for COMINT, which Committee shall, with the assistance of the Director of Central Intelligence, establish policies governing COMINT activities. and keep me advised of such policies through the Executive Secretary of the National Security Council. I further designate the Department of Defense as executive agent of the Government, for the production of COMINT information. I direct this Special Committee to prepare and issue directives which shall include the provisions set forth below and such other provisions as the Special Committee may determine to be necessary. 1. A directive to the United States Communication Intelligence Board (USCIB). This directive will replace the National Security Council Intelligence Directive No. 9, and shall prescribe USCIB's new composition, responsibilities and procedures in the COMINT fields. This directive shall include the following provisions. a. USCIB shall be reconstituted as a body acting for and under the Special Committee, and shall operate in accordance with the provisions of the new directive. Only those departments or agencies represented in USCIB are authorized to engage in COMINT activities. b. The Board shall be composed of the following members: (1) The Director of Central Intelligence, who shall be the Chairman of the Board. (2) A representative of the Secretary of State. (3) A representative of the Secretary of Defense (4) A representative of the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. (5) The Director of the National Security Agency. (6) A representative of the Department of the Army. (7) A representative of the Department of the Navy. (8) A representative of the Department of the Air Force. (9) A representative of the Central Intelligence Agency. c. The Board shall have a staff headed by an executive secretary who shall be appointed by the Chairman with the approval of the majority of the Board. d. It shall be the duty of the Board to advise and make recommendations to the Secretary of Defense, in accordance with the following procedure, with respect to any matter relating to communications intelligence which falls within the jurisdiction of the Director of the NSA. (1) The Board shall reach its decision by majority vote. Each member of the Board shall have one vote except the representatives of the Secretary of State and of the Central Intelligence Agency who shall each have two votes. The Director of Central Intelligence, as Chairman, will have no vote. In the event that the Board votes and reaches a decision, any dissenting member of the Board may appeal from such decision within 7 days of the Special Committee. In the event that the Board votes but fails to reach a decision, any member of the Board may appeal within 7 days to the Special Committee. In either event the Special Committee shall review the matter, and its determination thereon shall be final. Appeals by the Director of NSA and/or the representatives of the Military Departments shall only be filed with the approval of the Secretary of Defense. (2) If any matter is voted on by the Board but - (a) no decision is reached and any member files an appeal; (b) a decision is reached in which the representative of the Secretary of Defense does not concur and files an appeal; no action shall be taken with respect to the subject matter until the appeal is decided, provided that, if the Secretary of Defense determines, after consultation with the Secretary of State, that the subject matter presents a problem of an emergency nature and requires immediate action, his decision shall govern, pending the result of the appeal. In such an emergency situation the appeal may be taken directly to the President. (3) Recommendations of the Board adopted in accordance with the foregoing procedures shall be binding on the Secretary of Defense. Except on matter which have been voted on by the Board, the Director of NSA shall discharge his responsibilities in accordance with his own judgment, subject to the direction of the Secretary of Defense. (4) The Director of NSA shall make such reports and furnish such information from time to time to the Board, either orally or in writing, as the Board my request, and shall bring to the attention of the Board either in such reports or otherwise any major policies or programs in advance of their adoption by him. e. It shall also be the duty of the Board as to matters not falling within the jurisdiction of NSA; (1) To coordinate the communications intelligence activities among all departments and agencies authorized by the President to participate therein; (2) To initiate, to formulate policies concerning, and subject to the provision of NSCID No. 5, to supervise all arrangements with foreign governments in the field of communications intelligence; and (3) to consider and make recommendations concerning policies relating to communications intelligence of common interest to the departments and agencies, including security standards and practices, and, for this purpose, to investigate and study the standards and practices of such departments and agencies in utilizing and protecting COMINT information. f. Any recommendation of the Board with respect to the matters described in paragraph e above shall be binding on all departments or agencies of the Government if it is adopted by the unanimous vote of the members of the Board. Recommendations approved by the majority, but not all, of the members of the Board shall be transmitted by it to the Special Committee for such action as the Special Committee may see fit to take. g. The Board will meet monthly, or oftener at the call of the Chairman or any member, and shall determine its own procedures. 2. A directive to the Secretary of Defense. This directive shall include the following provisions: a. Subject to the specific provisions of this directive, the Secretary of Defense may delegate in whole of in part authority over the Director of NSA within his department as he sees fit. b. The COMINT mission of the National Security Agency (NSA) shall be to provide an effective, unified organization and control of the communications intelligence activities of the United States conducted against foreign governments, to provide for integrated operational policies and procedures pertaining thereto. As used in this directive, the terms "communications intelligence" or "COMINT" shall be construed to mean all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications other than foreign press and propaganda broadcasts and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than intended recipients, but shall exclude censorship and the production and dissemination of finished intelligence. c. NSA shall be administered by a Director, designated by the Secretary of Defense after consultation with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who shall serve for a minimum term of 4 years and who shall be eligible for reappointment. The Director shall be a career commissioned officer of the armed services on active or reactivated status, and shall enjoy at least 3-star rank during the period of his incumbency. d. Under the Secretary of Defense, and in accordance with approved policies of USCIB, the Director of NSA shall be responsible for accomplishing the mission of NSA. For this purpose all COMINT collection and production resources of the United States are placed under his operational and technical control. When action by the Chiefs of the operating agencies of the Services or civilian departments or agencies is required, the Director shall normally issue instruction pertaining to COMINT operations through them. However, due to the unique technical character of COMINT operations, the Director is authorized to issue direct to any operating elements under his operational control task assignments and pertinent instructions which are within the capacity of such elements to accomplish. He shall also have direct access to, and direct communication with, any elements of the Service or civilian COMINT agencies on any other matters of operational and technical control as may be necessary, and he is authorized to obtain such information and intelligence material from them as he may require. All instruction issued by the Director under the authority provided in this paragraph shall be mandatory, subject only to appeal to the Secretary of Defense by the Chief of Service or head of civilian department of agency concerned. e. Specific responsibilities of the Director of NSA include the following: (1) Formulating necessary operational plans and policies for the conduct of the U.S. COMINT activities. (2) Conducting COMINT activities, including research and development, as required to meet the needs of the departments and agencies which are authorized to receive the products of COMINT. (3) Determining, and submitting to appropriate authorities, requirements for logistic support for the conduct of COMINT activities, together with specific recommendations as to what each of the responsible departments and agencies of the Government should supply. (4) Within NSA's field of authorized operations prescribing requisite security regulations covering operating practices, including the transmission, handling and distribution of COMINT material within and among the COMINT elements under his operations or technical control; and exercising the necessary monitoring and supervisory control, including inspections if necessary, to ensure compliance with the regulations. (5) Subject to the authorities granted the Director Central Intelligence under NSCID No. 5, conducting all liaison on COMINT matters with foreign governmental communications intelligence agencies. f. To the extent he deems feasible and in consonance with the aims of maximum over-all efficiency, economy, and effectiveness, the Director shall centralize or consolidate the performance of COMINT functions for which he is responsible. It is recognized that in certain circumstances elements of the Armed Forces and other agencies being served will require close COMINT support. Where necessary for this close support, direct operational control of specified COMINT facilities and resources will be delegated by the Director, during such periods and for such tasks as are determined by him, to military commanders or to the Chiefs of other agencies supported. g. The Director shall exercise such administrative control over COMINT activities as he deems necessary to the effective performance of his mission. Otherwise, administrative control of personnel and facilities will remain with the departments and agencies providing them. h. The Director shall make provision for participation by representatives of each of the departments and agencies eligible to receive COMINT products in those offices of NSA where priorities of intercept and processing are finally planned. i. The Director shall have a civilian deputy whose primary responsibility shall be to ensure the mobilization and effective employment of the best available human and scientific resources in the field of cryptographic research and development. j. Nothing in this directive shall contravene the responsibilities of the individual departments and agencies for the final evaluation of COMINT information, its synthesis with information from other sources, and the dissemination of finished intelligence to users. 3. The special nature of COMINT actives requires that they be treated in all respects as being outside the framework of other or general intelligence activities. Order, directives, policies, or recommendations of any authority of the Executive Branch relating to the collection, production, security, handling, dissemination, or utilization of intelligence, and/or classified material, shall not be applicable to COMINT actives, unless specifically so stated and issued by competent departmental of agency authority represented on the Board. Other National Security Council Intelligence Directive to the Director of Central Intelligence and related implementing directives issued by the Director of Central Intelligence shall be construed as non-applicable to COMINT activities, unless the National Security Council has made its directive specifically applicable to COMINT. /s/ HARRY S TRUMAN ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest Special: Birth of NSA ***************************** -- A person is like a religion; one face, many aspects --Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard ICQ: 9815080 Operator Taliesin_2 of #SacredNemeton on IRC DALnet DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om From edsmith at IntNet.net Thu Dec 17 21:09:21 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:09:21 +0800 Subject: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981217230414.00713450@mailhost.IntNet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I got it! I had to use their search engine to find it though. Took 3 tries to get it because the ftp kept stalling. If anyone can't find it I will be happy to send it on as an attach. Haven't installed it yet though. You better hurry if you want if from me because I leavinf for LA for 2 weeks. Edwin At 06:48 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >Max Inux writes: >> it goto the pgp pages (easy link -> www.pgp.com) download PGP For personal >> privacy, it is under that link. > >I think you're going to be disappointed if you go there; >the pgp web page has been swallowed by nai's, & download >leads you to the new McAfee store, which is surely a nominee >for "web pages that suck"(tm). No free downloads. There may >be something under one of the evaluation pages, but frankly >the whole site turned me off & I didn't care to look so. It's hard >to find any mention of pgp at all, actually. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNnnUPkmNf6b56PAtEQL/JACfdAlksad2RLnZ6vvZluGtpJaEut8An3JB rLZG8tG/GOCEWhRmhE6w7K5P =jjvZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free! If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz. Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at: http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX? http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm When you blame others, you give up your power to change. Dr. Robert Anthony Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere. Lazarus Long From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 17 21:16:19 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:16:19 +0800 Subject: ..... Message-ID: <199812180438.FAA15935@replay.com> * Intel's new chipset -> death of open source security? [ http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981214S0008 ] * "[T]he Clinton administration announced further relaxation of U.S. export limits on encryption technologies." [ Mobile Computing and Communications (Jan. 99 issue, pp. 26+) ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel plans to include security features in upcoming chipsets, including copy protection, certificate management, and -- get this -- random number generation. This will be implemented in firmware, and, given that it is supposed to perform copy protection functions, there is a significant possibility that the code would be inaccessible, maybe (heaven forbid) within a tamper-resistant shell. Suggested response: Make negative noise about it -- of course -- and, upon the release of the specs, write software which interoperates with it, allowing software written to use the chips to use open-source routines. In the best case, you would be able to correct everything but the copy protection; in the worst case, software-inaccessible key material would be necessary to impersonate any function of the security chips -- possibly for the stated purpose of preventing hostile code from overriding the security functions -- and it's necessary to either get trusted keys out of the chip or patch the chip-using software, assuming that isn't made impossible, too. Although I have no idea how one would go about lobbying Intel to make a software-extensible design, it would be a Good Thing if they allowed a mechanism for software to override the chip without risking losing the security to a virus. It could be as simple as tweaking the relevant specs so that developers would "naturally" make a program which would use a non-Intel-trusted software fill-in for security functions when one is available, but know that software was being used and who has signed it. That is, the protocols not only make it possible for software to fill in for hardware but let programs that work with the hardware work with the software fill-ins without modification. Wouldn't affect the (deeply misguided) copy protection features, because software seeking copy protection could refuse to accept an answer that wasn't authenticated as being from the trusted hardware. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pretty much self-explanatory: those opposing crypto regs present examples demonstrating why crypto should be deregulated; the examples are deregulated and the point is ignored. Far too many people are complacent. A specific example: Mobile Computing and Communications (Jan. 99 issue, pp. 26+). It's an article saying that the Clinton administration has loosened regulations and, denying those who oppose the administration's position the fair shake given to even the most patently useless palmtop, states in the fifth sentence that "[t]he main issues are privacy and security, and with this policy it seems a delicate balance has been met." The same magazine (in fact, the same author in the same issue) referenced single-DES as "advanced encryption" with no mention of the fact that it had repeatedly been broken or that most cryptographers agreed that use of DES was to be avoided. Rather than simply whine or rant about it, I suggest that at least some attempt to respond be made. A letter to the editor may seem like a trite way to respond to these non-crypto-savvy articles, but unless there are plans to hold demonstrations outside the offices or just ignore it all... [Begin sample letter to MC&C] A recent report in Mobile Computing and Communications applauded the Clinton administration's loosening of cryptography when used in electronic commerce and certain other applications. I loved the article, but it gave little attention to what is probably, in the long term, the more important facet of cryptography: everything else -- that is, the applications of cryptography that are still regulated. Because intelligence agencies and some law enforcement organizations are afraid that unregulated cryptography will lead to a privacy-powered wave of terror, most of the vast potential of this technology is being squandered. For example, a worldwide network of computers running "anonymous remailer" software (which is powered by strong cryptography) could use mathematics to provide something which lawyers and legislators have worked to provide for hundreds of years: a virtual guarantee of freedom of speech. The construction of such a network, though, is adversely affected by the controls placed on the cryptographic software involved. It's obvious that this particular application is not highly relevant to businesses, but it's equally obvious to any professional cryptographer that there is a myriad of other potential applications -- for companies and individuals -- using software and hardware that is restricted by the current set of regulations. But the solution is not to follow the current trend, which has been to loosen regulations where there are complaints -- first banking, then medicine and insurance, and maybe anonymity in the future -- while tightening them in other fields through political maneuvers such as the Wassenar Arrangement. The solution I support, and the one supported by many others inside and outside the field of cryptography, is to keep our fears about cryptography reined in by our hopes for it, and to deregulate it so that this growing technology's full potential can be realised. [End sample letter to MC&C] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frantz at netcom.com Thu Dec 17 21:49:51 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:49:51 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F863E@MSX11002> Message-ID: At 3:17 AM -0700 12/17/98, Brown, R Ken wrote: >I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Ghandi may have been a great man and an >inspiration to us all but he *lost*. His first big political involvment was >trying to stop the British from allowing the Boers to take away political >rights from the "coloured" and Asian population of Cape Colony. The Brits >caved into the white South Africans and we all know what happened next. >Then he tried to get them (well us I suppose, since I'm British) to "quit >India" in the 1920s & 30s - failed again, we got out 2 decades later, after >WW2, when a British government was elected that was anti-colonialist. You >wouldn't have been able to persuade the 1945-1951 government to stay *in* >India. In fact they were so eager to get out they probably caused more >problems by the speed of the withdrawal. Ghandi wanted a secular federation >of all India - but instead there was partition, the secession of an >inherently unviable Muslim state that was bound to end up with either civil >war or fundamentalism (and in the end got both, at least for some of the >time), and at least hundreds of thousands, and possibly many millions of >deaths that could have been avoided. And then of course he himself was >killed. And now India has the BJP. Ghandi was perhaps *right* but he >certainly didn't "win the race". If you take the long view, Ghandi has won 2 out of 3. South Africa is a lot better than in Ghandi's day. Britain is out of India. He has so far lost on the separation of India and Pakistan, with no unification is sight. It is clear that Ghandi has inspired the people more directly involved with the final victory in the first two cases. I think Ghandi took the long view. YMMV. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | thing right, but did know | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the century would end. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 17 21:54:33 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:54:33 +0800 Subject: ..... Message-ID: <199812180521.GAA19817@replay.com> > Intel plans to include security features in upcoming chipsets, including copy > protection, certificate management, and -- get this -- random number > generation. This will be implemented in firmware, and, given that it is > supposed to perform copy protection functions, there is a significant > possibility that the code would be inaccessible, maybe (heaven forbid) within a > tamper-resistant shell. To clarify exactly why this is a problem: although it obviously won't affect the security of existing apps, it's likely that many newer apps will be dependent on this possibly-secret firmware for security, and we all know the evils of depending on a design not subject to intense public scrutiny. Worse yet, it seems possible that a certificate-based system could be used to ensure that neither non-Intel chips nor software fill-ins would be accepted by applications using the firmware. And, of course, except for what was mentioned in the TechWeb article itself, this is all conjecture based almost entirely on Murphy's Law. From edsmith at IntNet.net Thu Dec 17 22:15:42 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:15:42 +0800 Subject: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 In-Reply-To: <3679DC1E.F2D0E10E@acm.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981218002853.0071a270@mailhost.IntNet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Duh! You're so right. here's the URL http://www.nai.com/products/security/pgp_perspriv602.asp In Liberty Edwin At 08:37 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >> I got it! I had to use their search engine to find it though. Took 3 >> tries to get it because the ftp kept stalling. If anyone can't find >> it I will be happy to send it on as an attach. > >It might help if you posted either the URL or the terms you fed their >search engine to locate it. > >-- > Jim Gillogly > Trewesday, 28 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 04:36 > 12.19.5.14.0, 6 Ahau 13 Mac, First Lord of Night > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNnnoFEmNf6b56PAtEQIe1wCggnyZc8La+KNjL1e2qSK7dbt/kQgAn3o8 GkjttjZC9VldQ7jFCueSm6Ex =PAxS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free! If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz. Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at: http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX? http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm When you blame others, you give up your power to change. Dr. Robert Anthony Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere. Lazarus Long From brownrk1 at texaco.com Fri Dec 18 02:23:41 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:23:41 +0800 Subject: Encryption chip Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8645@MSX11002> > Does anyone know if there is some kind of chip, > or IC commercially available that does secure encryption? Yes, somebody does know. OK, sorry, that was facetious. In fact I know. From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Fri Dec 18 02:25:15 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:25:15 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . Message-ID: <802566DE.0034A7C4.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> So maybe this needs a multi-phase approach. 1)The mail programs themselves will encrypt between servers. This can be used to both protect the message(s) from being read (easily). Does PGP also assist by doing some compression?. Also it can be used to autheticate messages using a signiture which will have the dual purpose of providing some tamper proofing. 2)The receiving mail-server will autheticate the incoming message against its own list of known servers, and validate that the contents of the message as a whole appears OK. Maybe it will flag messages that fail these checks. It can also flag messages that arrived without server encryption. 3)If the incoming decrypted message is not itself privately encrypted by the sender it will use PGP to encrypt the message for the user before storing locally. If the sender has already encrypted the message then it will simply store it. Caveats A)All systems must have compatible encryption systems or access to those systems. (Why limit to just one?) and all those systems must have some sort of agreed means of flagging the message to allow automatted decryption. B)Some means of exchanging public keys must be developed. This must allow for keys to be changed. What happens when keys are changed, and messages are still in transit from the old keys. C)Not everyone is wise enough to use UNIX. Some people even use (pardon the language) Windoze or even AS/400's. There is plenty more scope for discussion here I think even if it is some of the less verbally able slagging off about old ideas that can't/won't work because ... etc. Surely there are enough brains out there to thrash this through properly. Hwyl "William H. Geiger III" on 18/12/98 00:23:05 To: "Marcel Popescu" cc: "Cypherpunks list" (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE) Subject: RE: I must admit. . . -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3 at roknet.ro>, on 12/18/98 at 01:26 AM, "Marcel Popescu" said: >> I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example: >> sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give >> your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail >> encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers >> forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some. >I think this is a great idea. First time I'll play with making a POP >client (an idea that appeals to me once in a while) I'll think about >it... Wouldn't it be more efficient to use TLS or SSH as an encryption protocol between the POP3d and the POP3 client? This could also be used for sendmail<->sendmail transactions. This still does not address local storage on the POP3d server. I am looking to setting up procmail to automatically PGP encrypt incomming messages and the forwarding them to a local account so even if the sender does not have PGP once the message is received by the PGP mail forwarder the messages will be PGP encrypted (I have had several people contact me looking for solutions to ISP's snooping on their mail without relying on the senders using PGP). - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain. Windows: Your brain on drugs. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 Charset: cp850 wj8DBQE2eZOrlHpjA6A1ypsRAgVDAKCpsNkbUjYCe77XBFHXnQDjZveHIwCg81zI UQM3ssGqYt/sQ+674XepePs= =GLQh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From richardcwaits at telescan.com Fri Dec 18 02:45:38 1998 From: richardcwaits at telescan.com (richardcwaits at telescan.com) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:45:38 +0800 Subject: Technical Analysis Special Offer Message-ID: <199812181014.CAA28050@toad.com> We've put together a technical analysis package that will help you profit not just in 1999, but into the next millenium. And with your purchase of $125 or more, you'll get your choice of one free investment book! Just buy any of the information packed books, video tapes or CDs below with a total value of $125 or more, and choose one of the four books listed at the bottom of this message. 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And the interactive companion CD-ROM is a user-friendly way to help master the techniques. Just $89.95 for both! Through this special year-end offer, a purchase of $125 or more entitles you one of the books below. Cyber-Investing: Cracking Wall Street with your Personal Computer (a $26.95 value) Wall Street City: Your Guide to Investing on the Web (a $27.95 value) ProSearch Strategy Handbook - 1999 Edition (a $39.95 value) Reminiscences of a Stock Operator (a $19.95 value) Call 800-324-8246 to order. This offer ends December 30! From mlists at gizmo.kyrnet.kg Fri Dec 18 03:37:11 1998 From: mlists at gizmo.kyrnet.kg (CyberPsychotic) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:37:11 +0800 Subject: RPK Encryptonite engine Message-ID: Hello people, Just wondering if anyone could pull a word on RPK crypto. They say they built their engine based on Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange principles (which shoulds safe enough), but they claim their software doesn't fail under US crypto restriction law, which makes me suspicious. -- fygrave at tigerteam.net http://www.kalug.lug.net From brownrk1 at texaco.com Fri Dec 18 03:38:00 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:38:00 +0800 Subject: War as a public relations excercise (was re:Comrade Klinton at it again) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8646@MSX11002> > nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl is accused of writing: > > As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname > held by a Nazi general. Fitting, that. It's what Allied journalists called Erwin Rommel, who was a German general, if not exactly a Nazi. Sometimes said to be a military genius. IIRC he distinguished himself well as a Panzer commander under Guderian in the attack on France; commanded the Afrika Korps & was beaten by the Allies (doing his reputation little harm - they were strongly outnumbered and probably lasted longer than they were expected to); and then was injured in the D-day invasion, invalided out and accused of plotting to kill Hitler. He was murdered by the Nazis (in that he was told that if he commited suicide his wife and children would not be sent to a concentration camp, which counts as murder in my book). Once upon a time a code name for a military "operation" was just that, a code name. These days it is a brand label. Probably thought up by the same guys that Coca-Cola or Ford would hire to name a new product. For any British person over the age of about 30 "Desert Fox" will immediately bring to mind Rommel, WW2 and the "Desert Rats", the British 8th Army (in fact mostly Indian + Australian with contingents from all over the Empire) who fought against Rommel in North Africa. That reminds us of the long-range Desert Group & for those who have been paying attention, the SAS, (who get *heaps* of publicity here. There is a whole tacky genre of SAS books and magazines) which in turn is supposed to make us feel good (all that rhetoric about "punching above our weight" and the "best trained and most skilled army in the world", "the Professionals"). And "Fox" brings to mind foxhunting of course. The choice of name is meant to imply to British audiences that "our boys" are out there hunting Saddam, even though that has been officially denied by both UK and US government. All the publicity refers to "him" and "his" weapons. No-one ever says "we are at war with Iraq", it is always "we are denying *him* the use of *his* weapons of mass destruction". Maybe we will soon start to see planted media hints that there are, or have been, SAS on the ground in Iraq looking for *him* - which will be instantly denied in such away as to allow people to carry on thinking that it is true if they want to. The US may have a law against killing heads of state but we Brits don't (although apparently we are still unsure as to whether we have a law against extraditing them to Spain when accused of a mere 3,000 murders). I strongly suspect the news management for this war was handled by the Brits, possibly the same spin team that handled last years Labour general election victory. The first attack was about 4 minutes to 10 pm UK time. I heard it as a newsflash on the radio & then turned on the TV just in time for ITV's "News at Ten" program. One of their journalists was waiting outside that front door of 10 Downing Street, obviously tipped off about an "important announcement" and the PM came out sometime around 10 past 10 to make his speech (half an hour *before* Clinton, which must have been agreed between the governments) which ended just in time for the ad break. I suppose Clinton's speech would have been about lunchtime on the West Coast, late afternoon on the East Coast. A bit early from the POV of news management. It gives the networks a few hours to work on it before prime-time TV. One of the first rules of this sort of thing you want your own words to go over unedited if at all possible - the less time the networks get the more likely you are just to be given a live mike. That way you get to choose your own sound-bites. Or borrow them from Margaret "There is No Alternative" Thatcher. Of course she needed the Falklands War to get re-elected, and Clinton needs all the help he can get, but Blair is still master of all he surveys (Well, except for a few of us unreconstructed far-lefties, Peter Mandelson's private life, and Welsh Labour Party) so perhaps he can afford to be magnanimous in victory. Or perhaps he really thinks that there is no alternative. We could accuse them or timing the attack for TV, although I suspect 0100 Baghdad time was in fact a sensible H-hour. You'd want it after dark, and later rather than earlier if you were interested in minimising civilian casualties. I suppose 0300 or 0400 might have been better - but that would have missed UK evening TV and given the news media time to sort out their story for the morning (some of the "serious" papers here came out against the attack. Tabloids seem to be all for it of course). As it was everyone got the government announcement first. Ken Brown This all my opinion and nothing to do with my employers. (And I am certainly not even going to speculate about oil prices from this address). From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 18 05:46:46 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:46:46 +0800 Subject: international free crypto campaign Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Erich Moechel" To: rms at gnu.org Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:55:26 +0100 Subject: international free crypto campaign CC: rah at shipwright.com Priority: normal Status: U Hello, We are in the midst of developing logos 4 the global campaign proposed as followup 2 the Wassenaar decision. The logos are here: http://www.quintessenz.at/freecrypto.html We would appreciate ur evaluation, suggestions highly welcome. quintessenz group is a founding member of the Global Internet Liberty Campaign. I've done much on the spot reporting from Wassenaar Office here in Vienna and am one of the coordinators of the International Crypto Campaign. hoping 2 hear from u Erich -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- q/depesche taeglich ueber internationale hacks--.-zensur im netz crypto--.-IT mergers--.-monopole & die universalitaet digitaler dummheit subscribe http://www.quintessenz.at -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- Certified PGP key http://keyserver.ad.or.at -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- erich-moechel.com/munications ++43 2266 687201 fon ++43 2266 687204 fax -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- -.-.- --.- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jwilso37 at visteonet.com Fri Dec 18 05:46:54 1998 From: jwilso37 at visteonet.com (Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:46:54 +0800 Subject: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 Message-ID: <199812181306.IAA01466@mailfw1.ford.com> I downloaded my copy from http://www.nai.com/products/security/pgp_perspriv602.asp. ____________________________________________________ Jamie R. Wilson -----Original Message----- From: John Holland [mailto:ekkensj at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, 17 December, 1998 18:44 To: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: Re: McAfee PGP 6.0.2 >McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time. Where is the free version available? Neither the McAfee or Network Associates web sites mentioned this. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 18 06:35:18 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:35:18 +0800 Subject: Dec. 18 column - Clinton still lying Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:49:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:52:00 -0800 (PST) To: vinsends at ezlink.com From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Dec. 18 column - Clinton still lying Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com Status: U FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED DEC. 18, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz There, he did it again So again, American missiles and planes are committed to a half-hearted, just-to-make-a-point "war" in Iraq. (Does no one else recall that a longer-haired Bill Clinton once protested a war in Vietnam because it was not legally declared, and further because it was unwinnable, given that Lyndon Johnson's policy of gradual escalation and "measured response" turned out to be good for nothing but filling body bags?) And so the vast majority of Americans now shuffle into line, dispiritedly rallying once again behind our fighting men and women, praying for their safety. But Americans express this subdued support in spite of -- not because of -- their faith that their current president would never lie. President Clinton will almost certainly be impeached by the House of Representatives within days if not hours, for past lies and subversions of justice aimed solely at protecting his own power, privilege and prestige. But surely matters of life and death, war and peace, are of such moment that no president would subordinate them to any ongoing attempt to sidestep justice ... right? In the final episode of the award-winning documentary series "The World at War," a middle-aged German woman -- she had been a teen-ager in the spring of 1945 -- recalls hiding in a Berlin basement as Russian shells rained down overhead, listening with her mother to what was likely the final radio broadcast by Nazi public relations chief Joseph Goebbels. When Goebbels promised that the war would yet be won by secret weapons soon to be unveiled by der Fuhrer, the teen-aged girl expressed disbelief. She was then stunned when her mother slapped her, admonishing: "Do you think Herr Goebbels would lie to us at a time like (start ital)this?(end ital) Mr. Clinton's crimes are on nowhere near the scale of those of the Nazis, of course. (Though the relatives of the women and children his henchmen killed at Waco might ask what difference the "scale" makes -- as now the same question may occur to those dying in Iraq to prevent that sovereign nation from stockpiling the same kinds of weapons the United States has possessed for decades.) But isn't there a ghastly fastidiousness to the way this simpering administration insists it will not bomb during the Ramadan holiday so as not to offend "Muslim sensibilities"? When George Patton's First Army was racing to the relief of Bastogne, did the troops take a day off from killing Germans on Dec. 25? If foreigners bombed your home and killed you family, would you be less offended to have them do so on Dec. 22 than on Christmas Day, or Yom Kippur? Do Mr. Clinton and his political advisors really understand what war (start ital)is(end ital)? Meantime, the evidence mounts (it never seems to take long, anymore) that Mr. Clinton did indeed lie again on Dec. 16, when he told the American people that he decided on the timing of these latest bombings not to divert attention from his own impending impeachment, but rather upon the specific catalyst of receiving -- on Wednesday -- a final report from U.N. arms inspectors. The Washington Times reported in a front page story Thursday that, according to "authoritative sources," the White House notified the Joint Chiefs of Staff that air strikes would be ordered this week on (start ital)Sunday(end ital), "48 hours before he saw a United Nations report declaring Iraq in noncompliance with weapons inspectors." Providing third-party corroboration, Israeli spokesman Aviv Bushinsky said Wednesday that President Clinton discussed preparations for an attack with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just minutes before Mr. Clinton flew home from Israel on (start ital)Tuesday(end ital). What does it matter, which day the president made the decision? It doesn't , of course; it only matters if the president deliberately lied about it, which then throws into question anything else he has said about the real motives for these actions. The Times further quotes a "senior congressional source" reporting that "White House eagerness to launch air strikes grew with intensity as a parade of centrist Republicans announced they would vote to impeach the president." The credibility of the president (start ital)does(end ital) matter. The ability of the public to have confidence that the man in the Oval Office will put the faithful execution of his constitutional oath and duties ahead of his personal ambition -- even his own political survival -- (start ital)does(end ital) matter. Or are we willing to accept a world in which wars orchestrated by television producers with the goal of improving "ratings points" turn out not to be fiction, at all? (The second thing White House spokesmen did Dec. 16 -- after announcing the latest raids on Iraq -- was to deny this was "a Wag the Dog scenario," referring to the reason cult comedy in which a hypothetical president arranges a fake Balkan war to keep a sex scandal off the front pages.) For all his failings, can anyone imagine Franklin Roosevelt troubling himself to deny that the D-Day landings of 1944 were staged as a mere political stunt, to "make him look more presidential"? Mind you, I wish more Americans would start ridiculing the absurd assumption that we need the federal government to hold our hands and change our diapers, cradle to grave. The best remedy for the pretensions of many of these arrogant bureaucrats to run our lives is indeed to laugh them out of town. I just never expected to see the United States of America turned so quickly into an impotent laughing stock, and from the top down. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John Hay, 1872 The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 18 08:33:00 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:33:00 +0800 Subject: Crypto related... [/.] Message-ID: <199812181600.KAA21672@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/ > RIAA's Encypted Music-Working with defense contractors? The Internet > Posted by Hemos on Friday December 18, @08:32AM > from the things-that-make-you-go-hmm dept. > Tom Holroyd passed along some interesting pieces of information from > Eric S Arnum's recent piece over at SonicNet. Many of you saw that the > RIAA has decided to lauch their Secure Digital Music Initiative > (SDMI). Well, that's not so interesting on it's own, but their choice > of company is. It's a subsidary of SAIC, a privately held company that > does work in secure defense commnuications. The company (SAIC) has > worked with the CIA, NSA, and Navy, amongst others. Click below for > the full story. > Read More... > (18 comments, 2554 bytes in body) > Wassenaar agreement not to apply to free software? Encryption Posted > by sengan on Thursday December 17, @04:53PM > from the eh? dept. > The Free Software Foundation states that the Wassenaar agreement does > not apply to free-software. It'd be nice to know why. Is this a > provision for research, or some sort of loophole? Link countesy of > Linux Today. > Read More... > (89 comments) ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Fri Dec 18 08:34:39 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:34:39 +0800 Subject: NSA Org Chart Message-ID: <199812181558.KAA27257@camel7.mindspring.com> Thanks to Defense Information and Electronics Report we offer NSA's organizational chart, which was obtained by DI&ER under the FOIA: http://jya.com/nsa-chart.htm From sunder at brainlink.com Fri Dec 18 11:53:13 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 03:53:13 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest In-Reply-To: <199812180318.TAA03849@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <367AAB1A.B56D7484@brainlink.com> > Safir said a suspect's DNA sample would be destroyed if he were > acquitted or cleared. Indeed, the innocent have very much to fear. Had Safir intended the above to be true, there would be no need to take the samples during the initial arrest of every person, only in those cases where it was necessary. And what will be the penalty for not destroying the DNA samples when the victim is acquitted or cleared? (Indeed, victim no longer applies to the person hurt by the alleged criminal, now the alleged criminal is also a victim.) So what's next, randomly arresting people driving through an intersection and then releasing them after their DNA is in the master catalog? Requiring DNA samples to get drivers licenses along and finger prints too? Having DNA samples in your driver's license and having random check points to make sure it matches your license? Using DNA as SSN's? Taking DNA samples with vaccination? Shades of Gataca! -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 18 12:05:58 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:05:58 +0800 Subject: Digital Democracy [/.] Message-ID: <199812181936.NAA22321@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/18/1319204.shtml > Digital Democracy: An Idea Whose Time Has Come News Posted by JonKatz > on Friday December 18, @01:19PM > from the We-Really-Don't-Have-To-Take-It-Anymore dept. > As the Middle-Aged White Guys in Suits dig in in D.C. for what is > hopefully their last stand, the idea of Digital Democracy never looked > better. If it's a good idea (and it is) to empower individuals by > teaching them how to master their own technology via movements like OS > and free software, isn't it past time to use the technology of the Net > and the Web to reverse the flow of power, away from the entrenched and > increasingly lunatic journalists and politicians in Washington and > back to the individuals staring from a distance in shock and horror > and what they're seeing on their TV screens? Forget Wag the Dog. > Joseph Conrad, Oliver Stone, Francis Ford Coppla (maybe Fellini, too) > have seized the capitol. Only we can't leave the theater. > > > > Never mind the silly allusions to "Wag the Dog." Somehow, Joseph > Conrad, Oliver Stone and Francis Ford Coppola (maybe Fellini, too) got > together to take over the government and play out their own visions of > our political life. The American capitol is now the Heart of Darkness, > fusing the darkest and most paranoid visions of "JFK" with the > spectacularly represented lunacy of "Apocalypse Now." > > The movies have somehow become real life, but we can't leave the > theater and go home. The horror never ends. Whenever we turn on the > TV, they're all still there, shouting, posturing, spinning. > > More and more, it seems clear that they're never going to go away. > Each one will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming, the last > zealot in Congress, the last self-righteous reporter, the last > screaming pundit on cable. > > It's time to start thinking about Digital Democracy. We have to be > able to do better than them. > > If the goals of OS and the free software movement are, in part, the > free and democratic sharing of technology, why not stretch the notion > farther and put it into the context of our increasingly surreal, even > mad, political times? > > The natural extension of the booming OS and free software movements > are into politics and democracy, especially the radical new ways in > which digital democracy could once again empower individuals instead > of politicians and journalists, and reform the obviously broken and > outdated way in which we resolve political issues. > > America was founded as a Republic, not really as a representative > democracy. For one thing, Americans were scattered far from one > another and couldn't make their feelings known quickly. So elected > representatives were elected to gather and make decisions on their > behalf. > > The authors of the Constitution didn't have all that much regard for > the judgements of the average citizen, any more than their successors > seem to. The structure was tilted towards a deliberative, rather than > simply representative system so that educated and affluent landowners > could screen the passions of the rabble and have the final say. > > The early pundits and cyber-gurus of the Internet's first generation > spouted on quite a bit about the impact of networked computing on > democratic institutions like Congress and journalism. These > institutions, they predicted, would increasingly become ineffective > and irrelevant, swept away by the power of digital technology to > reverse the flow of power. > > This cyber-rhetoric seemed - was - heavy-handed, Utopian and > overblown. It evoked the table-thumping Marxists more than the > architects of a new, civil order. But this week, it looks more better > by the hour. > > If you take the OS idea and daydream about it for a bit - millions of > individuals taking control of their own technology and shaping the > information they access and share, doesn't this idea have even greater > application for politics? And could it possibly be more timely? If > would could express ourselves politically - and have our expressions > count - isn't it at least conceivable that the U.S. Congress might be > talking about something that matters today, and for the last year? > > Digital democracy is no longer a pipedream, not in the year of the > online dumping of the Starr report and the impeachment proceedings. > It's no longer difficult to imagine every American having a computer > in the next few years, or having easy access to one in schools, > libraries and public buildings. People could vote online now as easily > as they vote by ballot or booth - more easily really. Each citizen > could be assigned a digital voting number and use it to vote from home > or the school or library down the road, where computers already exist > or could easily be set up. Fraud would be easier to spot and guard > against, thanks to advances in both encryption and programming. And > this wouldn't even raise fresh privacy issues, as voters have to > register now. > > This week, the country is confronted with the bizarre spectacle of a > runaway political entity - Republicans in the House of Representatives > - deciding, correctly or not, that no interest is more important than > impeaching President Clinton - not public sentiment, military action, > education, health care, the economy or any other civic or social > agenda. Even if they're right, lots of people are uneasy about this > willful disregard of public will. Most Americans don't want this to be > happening, and have said so for months. The politicians have said that > it doesn't really matter, the next election is two years away. By > then, nobody will remember this strange time. That's a good argument > for some form of Digital Democracy. > > Digital voting made possible by the Internet would make a spectacle > like the impeachment proceedings impossible. Everything shouldn't > necessarily be subject to popular vote, but the impeachment of the > President should be, and the Net and the Web could make it possible > even now. > > Watching music lovers challenge the primacy of the music industry > through digital technology like MP3's and the Rio raises the question > of whether we really need a middleman institution like Congress to > decide issues like this for us. After the year long Lewinsky/Clinton > media barrage and the dumping of reams of material, pornographic and > otherwise on the Internet, we know as much about the charges against > the President as they do. We are able and equipped to make up our own > minds and express our own wishes. And perhaps even see our wishes > carried out. > > Do we need to be bound to completely by their agenda, when we can now > set our own? > > Unlike Colonial Americans, we aren't disconnected and remote. We can > make our feelings known instantly. We have the technology to gather in > communities and clusters to debate and consider as much or more > information as members of Congress. > > Many politicians and journalists have feared, even loathed, the > Internet, since its inception. Increasingly, it becomes clear why. It > really does threaten them. It really does provide the means to take > power away from them - and their co-produced spectacles like > impeachment proceedings and presidential nominating processes - and > distribute it more broadly. This week marks the perfect time to begin > consider the possibilities of Digital Democracy. To broaden the notion > of empowering individuals begin by the designers of the Internet, > advanced by hackers, geeks, nerds, developers and designers and being > played out on sites like this one today. From the moment the Internet > began to grow, power and information began to leach away from > entrenched institutions like government, the press and academe and > towards hundreds of thousands, then millions of individual citizens. > The impeachment proceedings are a powerful argument for the idea that > it's time to take that idea farther. > > Digital technology doesn't mean that democratic decisions would have > to be rushed or impulsive. They could be as deliberative as we wished. > Digital voting could be spread over time, perhaps requiring several > votes. A broad range of issues and decisions - appointments, foreign > policy decisions, criminal matters - would be inappropriate for online > voting. > > But the Net is becoming a medium already well set-up for civic > discussions. The Internet could host hundreds, even thousands of > public online forums for debate and discussion - via message boards, > chat rooms and websites that could be designed for towns, counties, > states or regions. Politicians, agencies and advocates could > disseminate information and arguments via national websites, mailing > lists and e-mail. > > These forums would have to consider new kinds of rules for debate and > discussion, an online issue long in need of attention. Posters would > have to identify themselves and take responsibility for their words. > Discussion would center on issues, not personalities. Presidents and > legislators could bring information and decisions directly to the > American public. If the Starr report was worthy of being dumped on > line, why not the House Judiciary report on impeachment? Voters could > read it online, debate it, decide to pass it along for further action > or stop the process right there. > > If digital democracy were in place, this issue would have been > resolved nearly a year ago. Tens of millions of dollars would have > been better spent. Many more important issues would have considered, > accepted and rejected. Clinton would either be doing his job or long > gone. Instead of feeling cheated and ignored, the public would feel > enfranchised and involved. Democracy wouldn't be a remote circus > practiced far away by alien cultures, but something as close as a desk > or living room. > > We are no longer a country of merchants and mostly illiterate farmers. > Paine and Jefferson, the fathers of media, couldn't quite have > imagined the Internet, but there seems little doubt that they have > loved its communicative and democratic possibilities. Those of us with > access to computers and modems have access to all of the information > and opinions in the world, thus the means to consider issues and > express ourselves. In fact, there are thousands of people who've been > online for years and who are experienced at creating digital > communities, monitoring conversations and developing the software and > hardware to run them efficiently and accurately. > > No system involving Digital Democracy could work or even be seriously > considered until and unless all Americans were guaranteed access to > computers. A few years ago, online users were a tiny, techno-elite. > That's no longer true. Computers are increasingly ubiquitous, at > schools, businesses, and at home. Personal computers are already being > mass-marketed that cost well below $1,000, and public agencies like > schools, libraries and municipal office buildings are increasingly > wired. They could offer online voting to non-computer users in much > the way they offer voting booths and make them available. Many more > Americans own computers than voting booths. > ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tony at secapl.com Fri Dec 18 12:14:46 1998 From: tony at secapl.com (tony at secapl.com) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:14:46 +0800 Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest In-Reply-To: <367AAB1A.B56D7484@brainlink.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Sunder wrote: > So what's next, randomly arresting people driving through an intersection and > then releasing them after their DNA is in the master catalog? Requiring DNA > samples to get drivers licenses along and finger prints too? Having DNA > samples in your driver's license and having random check points to make sure > it matches your license? Using DNA as SSN's? Taking DNA samples with > vaccination? Shades of Gataca! Not sure where this is from but: "The government already has DNA samples from all US citizens, why else do you think they kept the copper penny in circulation?" I doubt copper can really collect DNA, and even if so, how they'd correlate it with individuals, but with public health vaccinations and (HMO at least) medical exams, the USG has had the opportunity to collect DNA samples of a very large percentage of the population already. From measl at mfn.org Fri Dec 18 12:21:08 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:21:08 +0800 Subject: international free crypto campaign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: :Hello, :We are in the midst of developing logos 4 the global campaign :proposed as followup 2 the Wassenaar decision. :The logos are here: : :http://www.quintessenz.at/freecrypto.html : :We would appreciate ur evaluation, suggestions highly welcome. I can see using the smaller ones ("echelons" @ ~8.5k), but the other [animated gif's] are simply too big. The download time on them is excessive (although I do like their design). Remember *most* ppl are still accessing the www at 28k +/-. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mgering at ecosystems.net Fri Dec 18 15:14:38 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:14:38 +0800 Subject: Comrade Klinton at it again Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B38B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Michael Motyka wrote: > Don't you mean "Iraqui" Embassy? > > Or is this thing spreading? I hope not. Why would there be an Iraqi embassy in Iraq?! You nitwit! Iranian Embassy in Baghdad. Somebody said: > As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname held by a Nazi > general. Fitting, that. I thought maybe the Fox News channel bought sponsorship ;) Matt From mark at zor.hut.fi Fri Dec 18 15:25:56 1998 From: mark at zor.hut.fi (Mark 13) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:25:56 +0800 Subject: Intel's Security Plans Worry PC Builders Message-ID: I wonder what government sponsored back doors they plan to include... http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981214S0008 Intel's Security Plans Worry PC Builders (12/14/98, 3:49 p.m. ET) By Rick Boyd-Merritt and Mark Carroll, EE Times Intel will add new security and software functions to future chip sets in a move that will boost the profile of its upcoming Katmai processors as key silicon for multimedia and e-commerce. But the plan is raising concerns among software, semiconductor and systems companies that fear the processor giant could wind up encroaching on their markets, extending its own reach deeper into the PC architecture. Intel's plans center around a so-called firmware hub, essentially a flash memory with key BIOS functions, which will be part of its Camino, Carmel, and Whitney chip sets. Those products will accompany next year's Katmai processors and are expected to be used in the Merced line, too. "This is an example of Intel taking in one more piece of the PC architecture," said a senior R&D manager with a major PC company who asked not to be named. Intel would not comment on its unannounced products. However, the key features of the chip are beginning to come to light based on reports from multiple sources. The firmware hub is "basically a flash chip with locks on its read and write capabilities that can be opened using a cryptographic protocol," said another source briefed by Intel. Hardware security functions include a cryptographic engine to authenticate digital certificates Intel or a third party could load in. The chip could hold multiple certificates, each with permission to grant specific features, such as to permit an operating system or an MPEG player to run. They would also ensure a software program licensed to one user was not copied and run on another machine, a common practice. In addition, the certificates will act like unique serial numbers, identifying a given machine in any Internet or corporate network transaction, sources said. The hub may also include a random-number generator to create public keys for encryption and help enable encrypted transmissions between PCs. That would provide security for e-commerce and software downloads, possibly including software modules for host-based modems, MPEG players, or audio codecs that are housed in the firmware hub and run on the CPU. Another feature sources have mentioned is physical security, linking sensors to the hub so it may report problems to a central network administrator if the case is tampered with or peripherals are removed. Even though the firmware -- and the chip sets it is part of -- are not due for production until at least mid-1999, samples have been available in Taiwan for some time. "We have had samples of the firmware hub for a while," said a project manager at First International Computer, in Taiwan. "We really haven't done too much with it yet. It is still not quite clear when it will be used and what its full functions will be." The hub chip is designed to incorporate new features into the PC upon start-up, the manager said, not to replace the standard BIOS, the key software that controls system I/O peripherals software. "After a PC is turned on, the firmware hub will be accessed and then the regular BIOS," said a BIOS engineer with another Taiwanese company. "The hub will affect the standard BIOS architecture, but it certainly won't replace it. That's not its purpose." Yet the prospect of a possible Intel incursion into BIOS is giving some industry observers the willies. Adding to their concern is the fact that Intel has not provided technical details about its implementation yet. One analyst said the hub will act as a BIOS registry, a place from which software emulation and upgrades can be controlled. Sources close to Intel suggested the Santa Clara, Calif., company would be leery of entering a new PC-related market while under the shadow of a Federal Trade Commission investigation. The company's motive is simply to bring new features to the PC, enhancing sales for corporate and consumer users, these sources said. Still, "If Intel controls what and how stuff gets put in the BIOS, that's really significant," said one analyst. "That's a wonderful control choke point." From nobody at remailer.ch Fri Dec 18 15:33:20 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:33:20 +0800 Subject: REPORT ON CYBER-TERRORISM Message-ID: <19981218230834.905.qmail@hades.rpini.com> A new report on national security, titled "CyberCrime, CyberTerrorism and CyberWarfare," calls for a complete overhaul of U.S. national security agencies and policies in order to avoid crippling sabotage of the nation's and corporate America's information infrastructure. The report, which is the product of the Center for Strategic and International Studies' Global Organized Crime project headed up by former FBI and CIA director William Webster, chronicles the results of a recent joint chief of staff exercise code-named "Eligible Receiver." The exercise involved a group of security experts, known as a "red team," that used software widely available from cracker Web sites to demonstrate the capability to penetrate and disable major portions of the U.S. electric power grid and deny computer systems to the entire Pacific military command and control operation. The report recommends the establishment of private sector-organized groups that would evaluate and endorse information security standards in various industries, coupled with increased government support for such efforts and the development of a national security policy for the Information Revolution. "The private sector cannot sit back and wait for government to lead," says Sen. Charles Robb (D-Va.), a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. (InternetWeek 16 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 18 17:19:58 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:19:58 +0800 Subject: [Steve Coya] Harmful changes to Wassenaar Arrangement Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text To: cryptography at c2.net Subject: [Steve Coya] Harmful changes to Wassenaar Arrangement Reply-To: perry at piermont.com From: "Perry E. Metzger" Date: 18 Dec 1998 18:51:52 -0500 Lines: 49 Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net FYI, from the IETF Secretariat. Message-Id: <199812182315.SAA10709 at ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce: ; Subject: Harmful changes to Wassenaar Arrangement Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:15:36 -0500 From: Steve Coya The IAB and the IESG deplore the recent changes to the Wassenaar Arrangement (http://www.wassenaar.org) that further limit the availability of encryption software by including it in the Wassenaar agreement's list of export controlled software (section 5.A.2.a.1 of the list of dual-use goods, WA LIST 98 (1)). As discussed in RFC 1984, strong cryptography is essential to the security of the Internet; restrictions on its use or availability will leave us with a weak, vulnerable network, endanger the privacy of users and businesses, and slow the growth of electronic commerce. The new restrictions will have a particularly deleterious effect on smaller countries, where there may not be enough of a local market or local expertise to support the development of indigenous cryptographic products. But everyone is adversely affected by this; the Internet is used world-wide, and even sites with access to strong cryptographic products must be able to talk to those who do not. This in turn endangers their own security. We are happy that the key size limit has been raised in some cases from 40 bits to 64; however, this is still too small to provide real security. We estimate that after a modest capital investment, a company or criminal organization could crack a 64-bit cipher in less than a day for about $2500 per solution. This cost will only drop in coming years. A report released about three years ago suggested that 90-bit keys are the minimum for long-term security. Brian Carpenter (IAB Chair) Fred Baker (IESG and IETF Chair) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From athena at cyberpass.net Fri Dec 18 18:50:57 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:50:57 +0800 Subject: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator Message-ID: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator by Mike Johnson Those who have been studying the stories released to the media these days about the arrests of various different people within the militia movement will doubtlessly have noted that government infiltrators are usually involved. This should make people nervous. And rightly so. Our normal view of government is that the only people who should have to worry about what the government is up to are people who are breaking the law. As the vast majority of constitutional militia units are composed of people who are of good character and don't go around breaking the law to begin with, they might feel that they should have little to worry about from the government. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. The government appears to be going all out to discredit the constitutional militia movement in this country. This effort on the part of the government does include the use of government agents to infiltrate militia units and cause as many problems, hate and discontent as they possibly can. In many instances, these government agents may not be readily apparent as to who and what they are. Some of these people may have had extensive experience in working undercover operations and may not make some of the more stupid mistakes. There are a variety of different roles that such government operatives may play. The first is that they may simply act as a mole. They will do everything anybody else in the unit does, and do nothing at all to call undue attention to themselves. However, they will relay everything that goes on within the unit to their handlers. About the only indication a unit may have that they have been infiltrated by a mole may be that they can't seem to be able to keep anything a secret. This type of role is the most difficult for a unit to detect and deal with. Which is also possibly why most of the spy novels that get written deal with various different ways to smoke out moles. While I wouldn't suggest that anybody try a technique for which the only source of documentation is a work of fiction, it is an indication of just how obnoxious this type of agent could be to deal with. Another role that a government agent might play may be that of a dissipator. A dissipator is one who tries to redirect the course and energy of a unit in ways which will cause it to accomplish nothing of any importance. They may also act so as to break a unit up by emphasizing differences, disagreements and personality clashes between unit members. Given that the people who are attracted to the constitutionalist militia movement usually tend to be strong willed and opinionated people to begin with, such an agent may find that his task is somewhat easier than it might be if he were working with other groups. Unit members should simply be encouraged not to take things personally, be aware that there will be honest differences of opinion between the members of the unit, and to be wary of somebody who does try to take everything personally, or set up cliques within the unit. The final role which will be discussed is that of the agent provocateur. Such an agent infiltrates a unit and tries to get the members of the unit to actually commit crimes, or make it look like they are actually planning to commit crimes. One should also bear in mind that a government agent is not going to be confined to operating within any one of the roles that have been discussed, and may likely mix and match as they feel best. However, the role that has received the highest profile in government operations these days is that of the agent provocateur. That is largely because the results of an operation conducted by an agent provocateur or two make for good propaganda when the media gets hold of it. The resultant publicity given to the arrests and the charges gets used to brand everybody in the entire movement as a criminal. The fact that the entire thing was set up by someone in the employ of the government isn't going to be mentioned at all by the mainstream media. For those who haven't caught on by now, your antenna should start to quiver in the presence of any one, or especially a combination of the following behaviors/patterns demonstrated by a unit member: (1) Wants to make bombs. (2) Wants to get everybody else to make bombs. (3) Wants people to buy/store large quantities of substances which could be used for explosives manufacture. (4) Fanatic about obtaining fully automatic weapons, without benefit of Class III license. (5) No obvious means of support, especially if they have lots of money to throw around. (6) Auto license tag changed on an irregular basis. (7) Encourages people to plan/do stupid things (raid armories, blow up office buildings, etc.) (8) Some groups can get auto tags run. They should be especially suspicious of anybody whose auto tag turns up a complete blank when run. (9) In our case, the guy was absolutely paranoid about his car being out of either his sight or his "wife's" sight for even a trivial amount of time. (10) Person claims to have a military background that they do not have. One individual claimed to be former Special Forces, but was found to be ignorant of some of the things that he should have known when quizzed by people who were former Special Forces. Depending on the level of trust that the members of your group have with each other, it might be a good idea to request to see the DD-214s of anybody claiming to have a military background. (11) One of your members has taken effective action to expose or block activities of the police or government preventing the expansion of or preservation of government power to control people and/or invade the privacy of the people. (12) One of your members (a) has an FFL; or (b) is involved in selling at gun shows; or (c) Is involved in promoting gun shows. Arguably the best way to deal with people who meet criteria 1-10 is simply to invite them to leave the unit. As Starr and McCranie found out, trying to turn them in will do no good at all, so the next best bet is to try to get them to leave. Failing that, disband unit, start again from scratch with people you can trust after sufficient elapsed time. Given the way things are going right now, those who have not joined up with public units may want to consider forming small closed units with just a small group of people that they have known for a long time and that they trust. For persons in 11, and 12: Do your best to be sure the goons cannot find a pretext as that is what they often work from. (*) Bill Albert of the Michigan Militia contributed to the list of items to look for and the discussion which follows it. #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From DVetoiy at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 19 11:35:31 1998 From: DVetoiy at worldnet.att.net (DVetoiy at worldnet.att.net) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:35:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: We Love it!$! Travel, Money, and..... Message-ID: <12507235_19217380> FIRE THE BOSS AND BREAK THE ALARM CLOCK! WE DID! Travel for pennies on the dollar And Enjoy a complimentary cruise for two! MAKE $3000-$5000 PER WEEK FROM HOME! Read on, if you're an entrepreneur or have always wanted to be your own BOSS. We supply state-of-the-art training and a support system that you will need to ensure your success! We are only looking for FOCUSED, serious entrepreneurs, (PT/FT) with the EXTRAORDINARY DESIRE to improve their lifestyle immediately. Not Multi-level Marketing or GPG MAKE YOUR VOCATION A VACATION� CALL NOW FOR INFORMATION 24 HOUR TOLL FREE NUMBER 1-888-376-0353 PS: DO NOT CALL US IF YOU'RE LAZY, LOOKING FOR A "GET RICH QUICK" SCHEME OR JUST SOME EXTRA CASH. From measl at mfn.org Fri Dec 18 22:12:34 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:12:34 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail.... Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- ::Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:21:34 +0100 ::From: Anonymous ::To: sysadmin at mfn.org ::You should be expecting a visit from the boys in the suits very soon. ::Have fun. I hope your cellmate is a big guy they call "The Bull." ::Traitorous scum. ---------- Message Ends ---------- What I *really* love about these "patriots" is how they are not _afraid_ to stand by their words! Awwww, c'mon! You're on the "Side Of Right(tm)", so why hide? You afraid I'm gonna piss on your white picket fence? Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From riburr at shentel.net Fri Dec 18 22:12:35 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:12:35 +0800 Subject: Preemptive, proactivism Message-ID: <367B3EAA.2F870154@shentel.net> Preemptive ;-) Sources within the US government and military counterterrorism offices have confirmed that the timing of "Desert Fox" was carefully planned and coordinated. Counterterrorism planners are anticipating terrorists will be incited into action as a result of US military action so close to the Muslim holy period of Ramadan. Terrorists with middle eastern ties may decide that the religious holiday observance of Christmas would be a good time to retaliate against western targets. "There's a proactive element involved in conducting military operations near Ramadan", one source said, "We won't be opening presents this Christmas, we'll be on our posts alert and watching." Another source said that the House impeachment vote was a serendipitous occurrence. "It actually helps with our activities. The bad guys think we're distracted, that there's no leadership. Actually, we've never been more focused, we're hyped. Our operations have been in high gear since the Africa (embassy) bombings, Desert Fox is an outgrowth of that. We know what these guys are going to do before they do." The recent cacophony of events in Washington D.C. may soon take on an aura of japanese surrealism. The secret service is weighing the necessity of having White House visitors and press conference attendees remove their shoes. The ability to disperse anthrax toxin from the hollowed-out heels of shoes is something that cannot be ignored. Sources said that such an incident, occurring in areas of pedestrian traffic, would disperse a toxin with tragic effectiveness. "It doesn't take much imagination to see the consequences of spilling a powder on the rug in a White House press briefing, lots of shuffling around in a closed environment, lots of inhaled toxin." What's scary is that someone could disperse a toxin unwittingly. "Do you know where your shoes are 24 hours a day?" an agent said. "This is something we have to think about, but short of an actual scare, I don't think we'll be asking you to take off your shoes. Not just yet." From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Dec 18 23:34:24 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:34:24 +0800 Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution (fwd) Message-ID: <199812190722.BAA23900@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From owner-travel-advisories at nic.stolaf.edu Fri Dec 18 23:27:02 1998 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:44:02 -0500 From: owner-travel-advisories Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution Sender: "U.S. Department of State" <76702.1202 at compuserve.com> To: travel-advisories at stolaf.edu Message-ID: <199812171147_MC2-63F5-4090 at compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk X-List-Info: LN=travel-advisories WHOM=76702.1202 at compuserve.com STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL INFORMATION - Worldwide Caution - Iraq ============================================================ Worldwide Caution - Iraq - Public Announcement December 16, 1998 In light of the military operations against Iraq and the potential for retaliatory action, the Department of State urges U.S. citizens traveling or residing abroad to review their security practices, to remain alert to the changing situation, and to exercise much greater caution than usual. While the U.S. Government has no specific information about threats to American citizens at this time, the potential for retaliatory acts against U.S. citizens exists. American citizens traveling or residing abroad are reminded to maintain a high level of vigilance and to take appropriate measures to protect their personal security. In addition, American citizens should maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all travel, and treat mail from unfamiliar sources with suspicion. American citizens traveling or residing abroad should contact the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate by telephone or fax for up-to-date information on security conditions. Current information on operations of U.S. embassies and consulates is also available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov. In addition, U.S. citizens planning to travel abroad should consult the Department of State Public Announcements, Travel Warnings, Consular Information Sheets, and regional brochures. This Public Announcement supplements the November 12, 1998 Worldwide Caution Public Announcement and the November 3 Public Announcement on Iraq and expires on March 15, 1999. ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- The "travel-advisories at stolaf.edu" mailing list is the official Internet and BITNET distribution point for the U.S. State Department Travel Warnings and Consular Information Sheets. To unsubscribe, send a message containing the word "unsubscribe" to: travel-advisories-request at stolaf.edu Archives of past "travel-advisories" postings are available at the URL: "http://www.stolaf.edu/network/travel-advisories.html" or via Gopher: gopher.stolaf.edu, Internet Resources/US-State-Department-Travel-Advisories From Qtgab11 at aol.com Sat Dec 19 18:27:30 1998 From: Qtgab11 at aol.com (Qtgab11 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:27:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Watch Your Sales Roll In With A Merchant Account! 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9ab47 at dial.pipex.com 9adopt4 at cwo.com 9adopt at oro.com 9c9 at news.xroads.com 9camber at primenet.com 9chav at river.biddeford.com 9cwatson at ssnet.com 9duelist at wizards.com 9eeplb at go01.comp.pge.com 9efaddies at xe.com 9elric at mango.aloha.com 9flyer at pentagon.io.com 9gmarshall at halcyon.com 9gto at dlep1.itg.ti.com 9hd at camel0.mindspring.com 9inarow at hahaceltic.com 9info at bigfoot.com 9lorkin at winvmj.vnet.ibm.com 9lorkin at winvmj.vnetibm.com 9mm at 9mm.com 9muses at magi.com 9narco at netcom.com 9net at csgi.com 9news at abilene.com 9nfindley at neosoft.com 9oa at alpha.nafb.trw.com 9oa at alpha.nafb.trw.comccww 9point9 at oregonobserver.com 9proler at bga.com 9pwilliams at rhp.com 9qjvc085yn at mv.com 9scottm at ecn.com 9secstang at sleeper.com 9smarttec at qns.com 9steves at primenet.com 9uhs at connectnet.com 9wallmr at bedfont.uk.ibm.com 9whitij at asicvm1.vnet.ibm.com 9whitij at asicvm1.vnetibm.com 9william.padilla at panasia.com 9willis at qnet.com a.akinbola at cgnet.com a.arslan at link-do.donut.ruhr.com a.aysan at internetmci.com a.b.dryburgh at btinternet.com a.b.ferguson at btinternet.com a.b.schmitz at westend.com a.b at ano.com a.b at never_mind.com a.baker at colosseum.com a.benjamin at mi04.zds.com a.bentzien at ndh.com a.bentzien at public.ndh.com a.bergland at bigfoot.com a.bernacki at smtphost.elsevier.com a.blade at coolone.com a.bond at research-int.com a.boone at kainos.com a.bopp at www.mebbs.com a.bordow at news.connectnet.com a.bostock at btinternet.com a.bridge at trl.telstra.com a.briell at westend.com a.brouwer at daftrucks.com a.bsu.religion at radish.interlink-bbs.com a.buturovic at berwanger.com a.c.e.co at netzone.com a.c.frerichs at sncper.simis.com a.c.frerichs at sncper.simis.com a.c.harris at btinternet.com a.c.munday at btl4ip.boat.bt.com a.c at xio.com a.cantor.cantor at mv.com a.castles at kainos.com a.cole1 at genie.geis.com a.concerned.mother at lunatic.com a.coverly at sattelcom.com a.dcheck.associates at execon.com a.d.check.associates at execon.com a.d.ferguson at att.com a.d.jones at btinternet.com a.d.s at btinternet.com A.Daair at rocketmail.com a.damon at bmts.com a.davis at oakland.raiders.com a.dcheck.associates at execon.com a.deepak at stcnet.com a.dejong at profs.pf232.spbhag.simis.com a.deslandes at genie.geis.com a.devos at research.kpn.com a.dewolf at fl.gte.com a.dewolf at gtenet.com a.dewolf at tel.gte.com a.dobermann at cgnet.com a.duffy at innet.com a.e.c.net at eznetny.com a.e at pacifex.com a.erfani at mci2000.com a.farmer at ol.com a.fiegel at genie.geis.com a.friend at dlbbs.com a.friend at geocities.com a.friesen at az05.bull.com a.g.j.sprang at nl.cis.philips.com a.g.n.pfaffe at siep.shell.com a.g.thomas at comco.com a.gales at dial.pipex.com a.gall at phnxsoft.com a.gardo at skovde.mail.telia.com a.gasser at tirol.com a.gathering.of.the.tribes at grist.com a.gault at interaccess.com a.geertsma at nym.sc.philips.com a.gentman at topcat.cld9.com a.gilani at dialogic.com a.gilmore at kainos.com a.godfree at dial.pipex.com a.goldfine at genie.geis.com a.grimstad at att.com a.gudmundsson at cc.bellcore.com a.gutman at sbf.com a.guttke at karlstad.mail.telia.com a.guyon at btinternet.com a.h.d at btinternet.com a.h.e.m.terwindt at research.kpn.com a.h.gilmore at openmail1.uesi.simis.com a.h.nordin at hudiksvall.mail.telia.com a.hampster at btinternet.com a.hansen2 at genie.geis.com a.harwood at msmail.trctho.simis.com a.havewala at zds.com a.haxby at siep.shell.com a.hayden at analog.com a.hellwig at softgold.com a.heyes at btinternet.com a.holleman at mpn.cp.philips.com a.hoogervorst at inter.nl.com a.huey at genie.geis.com a.hyder at segaworld.com a.ignacio at internetmci.com a.insley at hill.com a.j.deboer at research.kpn.com a.j.f.vanhalderen at research.kpn.com a.j.frost at btl1ip.boat.bt.com a.j.galbraith at dial.pipex.com a.j.j.brevoort at research.kpn.com a.j.owens at btinternet.com a.j.prater at daytonoh.attgis.com a.j.saveriano at lightspeed.com a.j.savoy at mail.sstar.com a.j.schepis at gooey.com a.j at unknown.address.com a.judith at runnet.com a.k.westers at openmail.csn41.namass.simis.com a.kaeufer at ndh.com a.karlsson at vaggeryd.mail.telia.com a.katwala at glass.jecsystems.com a.kayedk at crl.com a.kirch at westend.com a.kleifges at public.ndh.com a.krisinger at public.ndh.com a.krueger at public.ndh.com a.kupries at westend.com a.l.a.jacobs at nl.cis.philips.com a.l.p at chica.com a.langdon at canrem.com a.lillich at applelink.apple.com a.lua.id at ardennes.com a.m.a.wouters at research.kpn.com a.m.oudshoff at research.kpn.com a.m.vanderhoeve at openmail.tpl62.namvna.simis.com a.mabry at utf4.utelfla.com a.macarthur at btinternet.com a.malik at ma30.bull.com a.marumoto at mail.shareinfo.com a.mcbay at poboxes.com a.mcintosh at lilly.com a.mcintyre at btinternet.com a.mcquillan at dial.pipex.com a.mellberg at surahammar.mail.telia.com a.miao at post1.com a.monticchio at cc.bellcore.com a.muir at muirco.u-net.com a.munson1 at genie.geis.com a.murraysmith at gdn1gu.boat.bt.com a.mursch at wastage.infox.com a.nerd at netcom.com a.nieuwkoop at nl.cis.philips.com A.Nomymous at nowhere.com a.non at someplace.tymnet.com a.nonpartisan.observer at home.com a.noren at goteborg.mail.telia.com a.oates at geac.com a.olson at pro-babbage.cts.com a.olsson at valdemarsvik.mail.telia.com a.p.h.vanrooijen at research.kpn.com a.p.hope at btinternet.com a.p.murrah at mourner.com a.palekar at architel.com a.palmer at kainos.com a.paralegal at internetmci.com a.parkhouse at btinternet.com a.paul.morris at gecm.com a.pecchia at resonet.com a.pelzner at westend.com a.person at net.com a.petersen at pobox.com a.phillips5 at genie.geis.com a.phillps5 at genie.geis.com a.pinheiro at edina.xenologics.com a.pinheiro at edina.xnc.com a.podlecki at att.com a.pokras at roche.com a.poots at dial.pipex.com a.prater at daytonoh.attgis.com a.r.n at btinternet.com a.r.smarty at eden.com a.redlich at realogic.com a.reid at bigfoot.com a.richrath at edina.xenologics.com a.roeseler at att.com a.roguish.fellow at south.austin.com a.rudnitsky at techsmith.com a.ruecker at doo.donut.ruhr.com a.s.i.moosa at technologist.com a.s at hollywood.com a.sand at mci2000.com a.schalkoort at sncper.simis.com a.schinke at viking.ruhr.com a.schlafley at isd.k12.us.mi.com a.schoetz at public.ndh.com a.schuster at wunsch.com a.schwartz at architel.com a.schwertner at edina.xnc.com a.segal at elsevier.com a.seier at link-do.donut.ruhr.com a.seier at linkdo.donut.ruhr.com a.sela at snet.com a.sifford1 at genie.geis.com a.soo at applelink.apple.com a.spark at dial.pipex.com a.symann at pop.du.gtn.com a.szollosi at isnl.simis.com a.szymczak1 at genie.geis.com A.The.Merry.Mutan at 467.parasol.stat.com a.trapp at edina.xenologics.com a.triolo at att.com a.turner1 at genie.geis.com a.vachhergnanathurai at fourd.com a.voelker at public.ndh.com a.vogel1 at genie.geis.com a.vtorygin at raceusa.com a.w.bitts at cummins.com a.w.d at btinternet.com a.wakefield at kainos.com a.watson at genie.geis.com a.weitzner at lucent.com a.wigman at dial.pipex.com a.wood at btinternet.com a.woodcock at dial.pipex.com a.wooten at genie.geis.com a.zentner at genie.geis.com a0002 at mad167.dnet.ge.com a0002 at mad167.dnetge.com a0002 at mad168.dnet.ge.com a0002 at mad168.dnetge.com a00048 at cjm3k.wpl.com a0011723 at airmail.com a0014571 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0014571 at dsks52.itg.ti.com a002510 at rd821.gleason.com a0034 at happy.ail.com a0042724 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a007 at m5.com a0098188 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0115810 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0120237 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0130481 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0130497 at lobby.ti.com a01340 at alec.tus.allied.com a0143989 at dsbs15.itg.ti.com a0149974 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0167221 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0175130 at dsks52.itg.ti.com a0181842 at dseg.ti.com a0183015 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0183046 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0183046 at dsks65.itg.ti.com a0183415 at fstop.csc.ti.com a0185439 at ti.com a0192834 at dlep1.itg.com a0192836 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0194687 at dflmail.itg.ti.com a0195440 at dskmm51a.itg.ti.com a0197653 at dlemail2.itg.ti.com a0197700 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0197725 at awesome.itg.ti.com a0197842 at dsbs15.itg.ti.com a0198631 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a01 at mdbesf.mdbe.com a01read-skyfox.usask.cainternet at livewire.portal.com a0200429 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0201791 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0202003 at lobby.ti.com a0204183 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0205517 at dsbmail.itg.ti.com a0207287 at mkcase1.dseg.ti.com a0207584 at dskp3.itg.ti.com a0207789 at dseg.ti.com a0207893 at convx1.dseg.ti.com a0208041 at dflmail.itg.ti.com a0208219 at shhp715e.dseg.ti.com a0208219 at shhp827.dseg.ti.com a0208360 at dflmail.ti.com a0210511 at swap.dseg.ti.com a021673 at erols.com a026120 at goodyear.com a0322633 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0353225 at dazs13.itg.ti.com a0353248 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a036450 at rd821.gleason.com a0383577 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a0384044 at 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hsxsrv.dseg.ti.com a0979636 at dlep1.itg.ti.com a09876 at gnn.com a09r at tmp.medtronic.com a0 at access.digex.com a1-jacs at i-link.com a1.clust.clust.umc at engult.lxe.com a1.usa.umc at mailgate.glaxo.com a10013 at email.mot.com a1002 at monmouth.com a10035 at email.mot.com a1004a at travelgazette.com a101687 at bga.com a101687 at realtime.com a10190 at email.mot.com a10271 at email.mot.com a1027 at cris.com a10377 at corp.mot.com a10377 at email.corp.mot.com a10377 at email.mot.com a10636 at email.mot.com a10636 at laotzu.corp.mot.com a1089sos at hkstar.com a10c4i at localnet.com a11.sale at jonspewak.com a110 at sunlife.com a1117777 at hkstar.com a1128 at netvigator.com a112 at abcd.com a11402 at email.corp.mot.com a11516 at email.mot.com a120237 at lobby.ti.com a12077 at email.mot.com a1208 at hotmail.com a121331234 at post1.com a123456 at www23.com a12345 at hkstar.com a1234 at mindspring.com a123 at dlcc.com a12482 at email.mot.com a127094 at hp8001.fpp.com a128848 at fpp.com a12981 at email.mot.com a12b6 at primenet.com a12taipo at hkstar.com a1306 at primenet.com a131741 at hp7008.fpp.com a13279 at email.mot.com a138575 at pop.nl.cis.philips.com a139271 at sgi001.fpp.com a13man at netaxs.com a142272 at adam.dseg.ti.com a1422c at email.mot.com a145827 at dseg.ti.com a148351 at fpu073.fpp.com a149153 at se77.dseg.ti.com a149153 at sh56.dseg.ti.com a15184 at hotmail.com a16jberc at attmail.com a16msafley at attmail.com a170997 at news.dseg.ti.com a176185 at escher.msp.sc.ti.com a182629 at dseg.ti.com a182629 at ibasee3.dseg.ti.com a182629 at itasee2.dseg.ti.com a183111 at moe.dseg.ti.com a183855 at se82.dseg.ti.com a183855 at skopen.dseg.ti.com a186329 at dseg.ti.com a186430 at moe.dseg.ti.com a187119 at tilde.csc.ti.com a187155 at pooh.msp.sc.ti.com a187420 at erbium.msp.sc.ti.com a188083 at linus.msp.sc.ti.com a188083 at matisse.msp.sc.ti.com a188103 at linus.mem.ti.com a1901 at gramercy.ios.com a1911a at pipeline.com a1911a at usa.pipeline.com a1918 at chelsea.ios.com a1929 at tribeca.ios.com a193518 at mksol.dseg.ti.com a193522 at mcopn1.dseg.ti.com a195722etd.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com a195778 at node_3b9fc.mem.ti.com a1957jbk at thecore.com a19592 at waccvm.corp.mot.com a195982 at msp.sc.ti.com a195982 at owl.msp.sc.ti.com a196028 at ohm.msp.sc.ti.com a196223 at msp.sc.ti.com a197803a at hkstar.com a1981981 at netvigator.com a19974 at waccvm.corp.mot.com a19 at en.com a1 at anon.com a1 at bpworld.com a1 at comnet.com a1 at nbn.com a1 at sfov1.verifone.com a1 at verifone.com a1amway at cyberpromo.com a1b2c3e4 at pipeline.com a1b2c3e4 at usa.pipeline.com a1bko at tribeca.ios.com a1comm at pop.erols.com a1consult at pwrnet.com a1consulting at pwrnet.com a1dad at hotmail.com a1gomes at mrtony.ultranet.com a1health at sprynet.com a1idpierat at kewl.com a1idpirat at kewl.com a1info at a1co.com a1jacs at ilink.com a1lock at ocsonline.com a1mcdee at interoz.com a1phil at metroslave.metroslave.com a1s at icf.hrb.com a1service at interramp.com a1sexyguy at usa.pipeline.com a1support at a1co.com a1travl at loclnet.com a1video at hotmail.com a1webdesign at geocities.com a1xxxcpl at gnn.com a1_koess_grimes_rwemail at delcoelect.com a1_nyneve_hardy_demail at delcoelect.com a2.33 at death.com a2.bill at genie.geis.com a20002 at email.sps.mot.com a2000 at sprynet.com a200438 at vantage.fmr.com a201257 at sd92.com a201257 at sd92.dseg.ti.com a202651 at dseg.ti.com a204908 at fmr.com a205278 at dsbmail.itg.ti.com a206849 at asd470.dseg.ti.com a206849 at lesol1.dseg.ti.com a207627 at fmr.com a207706 at moe.dseg.ti.com a207718 at moe.dseg.ti.com a207746 at texas.dseg.ti.com a20788 at bigbird.tus.allied.com a208013 at lobb.ti.com a208055 at jasmine.fmr.com a208577 at sneezy.vantage.fmr.com a208 at sunlife.com a209928 at vantage.fmr.com a20 at primenet.com a210518 at texas.dseg.ti.com a210566 at texas.dseg.ti.com a216004norvs1 at x400gw.etn.com a219487 at etd88a.mdc.com a2217 at hotmail.com a229aa at email.sps.mot.com a23169 at email.mot.com a233 at iglou.com a23432 at useworld.com a234 at erols.com a2427806 at sprynet.com a24755 at waccvm.corp.mot.com a24756 at hkstar.com a25152 at waccvm.corp.mot.com a25627 at vm.algoma.com a26mber at hotmail.com a2771 at shafi.dell.com a2783456 at netvigator.com a2845 at worldshop.com a2890 at netvigator.com a291750 at hkstar.com a291 at hotmail.com a293 at hkstar.com a2 at primenet.com a2 at verifone.com a2bis2b at gnn.com a2brute at wbmls.ca.boeing.com a2cpl at hotmail.com a2dcem at numbers.com a2jim at usa.pipeline.com a2mailcamhlotus.lotus at crd.lotus.com a2mpt at bizserve.com a2p6x5fv at abaco.coastalnet.com a2s3k4wm at abaco.coastalnet.com a2xxxlinks at psychonet.com a2z at keydesign.com a2z at netaxis.com a2z at nowhere.com a2zcomp at cris.com a2_inc at usa.pipeline.com a3023 at worlshop.com a3028 at worldshop.com a30400996 at hotmail.com a3060037 at hkstar.com a320732 at liveoak.wotangate.sc.ti.com a320732 at offenbach.wotangate.sc.ti.com a320732 at walnut.wotangate.sc.ti.com a3295 at hotmail.com a335 at mail.dxr.com a340 at idirect.com a341dsudduth at attmail.com a341rpohl at attmail.com a3428 at hknet.com a343jbrinsko at attmail.com a3462 at netvigator.com a347lclark at attmail.com a347lfiedler at attmail.com a349mgreenle at attmail.com a34 at lover.com a35r at tmp.medtronic.com a360b360 at netvigator.com a363674 at aadt.com a364214 at aadt.com a3780 at iglou.iglou.com a388351 at sdt.com a399019 at ska.com a3 at wworlds.jd.com a3dguy at escape.com a3dmator at dnai.com a4003h at dseg.ti.com a403122 at netvigator.com a4141 at adjiriarts.com a434 at erols.com a43wer8 at jumbo.com a440 at interlog.com a440tech at loop.com a447 at msg.ti.com a454930 at mksol.dseg.ti.com a458rs at mcsds.com a465 at best.com a48435248752654 at hotmail.com a49er at netcom.com a49erfan at nyc.pipeline.com a4dable at a4dable.com a4dwald at msg.pacbell.com a4m at mcs.com a4poe9 at westnet.com a4slam at srv.pacbell.com a4ssinc at pacbell.com a4x4 at indirect.com a50146w8 at awinc.com a50154w8 at awinc.com a50154w8 at awnet.com a50177w8 at awnet.com a50178w8 at awnet.com a50223w8 at awnet.com a50321w8 at awnet.com a50341w8 at awinc.com a50341w8 at awnet.com a5048 at geocities.com a50806 at gjpomail.doegjpo.com A50VM1.TRG.NYNEX.CO at CUVMB.CC.com A50VM1.TRG.NYNEX.COM at CUVMB.CC.com a5271226 at netvigator.com a545544 at erols.com a55445 at tribeca.ios.com a571 at iglou.com a587338 at ska.com a596671 at ska.com a599517 at ska.ska.com a5y5p3mh at abaco.coastalnet.com a60784 at pan.mc.ti.com a60910 at netvigator.com a609587 at verleihnix.ska.com a6190908 at netvigator.com a63strat at dreamscape.com a65z1 at idirect.com a66299 at eskom.it.com a66rmpandv02 at gmr.com a6728376 at sprynet.com a677030 at anz.com a6801093 at netvigator.com a68xke at erols.com a691645 at dseg.ti.com a69768 at ganesh.mc.ti.com a69768 at news.mc.ti.com a69768 at pan.mc.ti.com a6 at netcom.com a6zero at azstarnet.com a700102 at aetna.com a711364 at netvigator.com a716955 at hkstar.com a7204 at texoma.com a722556 at pan.mc.ti.com a722756 at pan.mc.ti.com a722756 at roper.mc.ti.com a723601 at pan.mc.ti.com a724431 at flash.mc.ti.com a724467 at bart.mc.ti.com a725911 at pan.mc.ti.com a726137 at pan.mc.ti.com a726226 at shiva.mc.ti.com a729849 at msp.sc.ti.com a733857 at ska.com a73818 at wf.com a740728 at tiuk.ti.com a740778 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a740982 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a741009 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a749883 at pan.mc.ti.com a750095 at pan.mc.ti.com a750172 at mech-smtp.mc.ti.com a750172 at pan.mc.ti.com a750288 at pan.mc.ti.com a750318 at pan.mc.ti.com a750531 at msg.mc.ti.com a751812 at pan.mc.ti.com a752086 at pan.mc.ti.com a752186 at pan.mc.ti.com a752489 at pan.mc.ti.com a754458 at snoopy.mc.ti.com a755aa at email.mot.com a7883 at en.com a7cne30g at microceo.ixfnet.com a7fu03ho at netvigator.com a800 at erols.com a802363 at pan.mc.ti.com a804363 at stealth.mc.ti.com a825199 at stealth.mc.ti.com a826056 at pan.mc.ti.com a842051 at dseg.ti.com a842051 at lvdc48.dseg.ti.com a842410 at dseg.ti.com a877728 at strange.uk.ti.com a877728 at tiuk.ti.com a8812 at sprynet.com a884 at village.ios.com a888 at hknet.com a888 at hotmail.com a8 at cybrport.com a8 at hell.com a9013 at idirect.com a903309 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a904044 at tiuk.ti.com a904209 at pluto.tiuk.ti.com a904209 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a905103 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a905103 at tiuk.ti.com a905576 at crazy.tiuk.ti.com a905576 at crazy.uk.ti.com a905576 at elrod.tiuk.ti.com a905576 at tiuk.ti.com a906048 at tiuk.ti.com a906113 at pugwash.tiuk.ti.com a906270 at tiuk.ti.com a907932 at nast0.bdy.wi.ameritech.com a908301 at tiuk.ti.com a908570 at server1.tiuk.ti.com a908591 at tiuk.ti.com a909929 at tiuk.ti.com a909937 at getafix.tiuk.ti.com a909947 at tiuk.ti.com a909948 at strange.tiuk.ti.com a909980 at tiuk.ti.com a926092 at netvigator.com a92miata at erols.com a948r35 at aixssc.uk.ibm.com a95supp at connectix.com A99182 at izzy.mmm.com a992btw at nonet.com a999roses at hotmail.com a9 at btr.btr.com a9 at btr.com a9 at public.btr.com a9sheppa at midget.hursley.ibm.com adslkfjlsdakf at lksjdlfkjsldkf.com alskjreoi at aoieurmvd.com a at a.com a at aliroo.com a at apollo.hp.com a at b.b.wishing.com a at b.c.com a at b.com a at bbn.com a at castles.com a at ccmail.ceco.com a at ccnet.com a at cho006.cho.ge.com a at cisco.com a at collideascope.com a at cris.com a at crl.com a at cycor.com a at deepcove.com a at dev.com a at eden.com a at engvax.picker.com a at fisons.com a at geomatics.com a at gw2kbbs.com a at interramp.com a at ismore.com a at jpmorgan.com a at k.com a at kcts.com a at lamg.com a at lilly.com a at lincoln.gpsemi.com a at lubynsky.com a at mail-e2b-service.gnn.com a at mail.mother.com a at megaweb.com a at mindspring.com a at moa.com a at montrouge.ts.slb.com a at msgw.vf.mmc.com a at msm.cdx.mot.com a at msmail.aai.arco.com a at netcom.com a at netusa1.com a at netzone.com a at niagara.com a at npri6.npri.com a at ns1.koyote.com a at o.com a at po.com a at primenet.com a at prostar.com a at pscdp3.swindon.gpsemi.com a at rescueinfo.com a at sol.rtsg.mot.com a at telerama.lm.com a at tezcat.com a at valmet.com a at vnabrw.enet.dec.com a at z.com aa-2 at deltanet.com aa.azevedo at internetmci.com aa04 at dial.pipex.com aa061 at dial.pipex.com aa06970 at miner.com aa0fm at vexcel.com aa103 at hotmail.com aa143 at dial.pipex.com aa14893 at inet1.tek.com aa168292 at netvigator.com aa18 at dial.pipex.com aa1al at neca.com aa1kf at dewco.com aa21 at dial.pipex.com aa2345 at netstar.com aa29625 at nsc.nsc.com aa2 at deltanet.com aa2 at news.preferred.com aa2du at netcom.com aa349 at freenet.carleton.com aa383 at dial.pipex.com aa39309 at inet1.tek.com aa3dc at westol.com aa4030 at hkstar.com aa46 at dial.pipex.com aa4ga at contesting.com aa5yc at bga.com aa5yc at realtime.com aa60 at poczta.com aa63 at dial.pipex.com aa6aa at netcom.com aa6eg at tmx.com aa6g at best.com aa6ok at mail.mother.com aa6ok at mother.com aa6vn at bdt.com aa6wg at directnet.com aa7887 at erols.com aa7pd at sisna.comm aa7pd at sisna.com From KKappa21 at aol.com Sat Dec 19 09:44:18 1998 From: KKappa21 at aol.com (KKappa21 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:44:18 +0800 Subject: SECRETS REVEALED!! 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Simply Print Out This Form, Fill Out & Mail Today. YES! I want To Beat the One Arm Bandit please RUSH! Enclosed is my: Check _____ Cash ____ Money Order ____ for $10.00 (Outside of U.S.A. add $5.00 for shipping & handling) Name: _________________________________ Address: _______________________________ City _____________ State_______ Zip_________ E-mail Address: _____________________________ Phone # _________________ MAIL TODAY: GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION P.O BOX 7247 GARDEN CITY, NY 11795 U.S.A. From alan at clueserver.org Sat Dec 19 12:06:50 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:06:50 +0800 Subject: Preemptive, proactivism In-Reply-To: <367B3EAA.2F870154@shentel.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219114004.03cb9c20@clueserver.org> At 12:50 AM 12/19/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote: >What's scary is that someone could disperse a toxin unwittingly. "Do you >know where your shoes are 24 hours a day?" an agent said. "This is >something we have to think about, but short of an actual scare, I don't >think we'll be asking you to take off your shoes. Not just yet." "Shoes for Terrorists! Shoes for the dead! Shoes for Terrorists!" I think they need to investigate the influence of Firesign Theatre over our security agencies. --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From billh at ibag.com Sat Dec 19 13:12:11 1998 From: billh at ibag.com (William J.Hartwell) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:12:11 +0800 Subject: MS and Y2K Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219134839.007c8780@mail.xroads.com> Redmond, WA - Microsoft announced today that the official release date for the new operating system "Windows 2000" will be delayed until the second quarter of 1901. -- William J. Hartwell (602)987-8436 Queencreek, Az. billh at ibag.com billh at interdem.com billh at hartwell.net From xasper8d at lobo.net Sat Dec 19 13:38:45 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:38:45 +0800 Subject: MS and Y2K In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981219134839.007c8780@mail.xroads.com> Message-ID: <000601be2b92$6d295f00$6a8a83d0@ibm> Damn. I needed that software. ;^) ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of William J.Hartwell ~> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 1998 1:49 PM ~> To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com ~> Subject: MS and Y2K ~> ~> ~> ~> ~> Redmond, WA - Microsoft announced today that the official ~> release date for ~> the new operating system "Windows 2000" will be delayed until the second ~> quarter of 1901. ~> ~> -- ~> William J. Hartwell ~> (602)987-8436 ~> Queencreek, Az. ~> ~> billh at ibag.com billh at interdem.com ~> billh at hartwell.net ~> ~> From edd at spdy.com Sun Dec 20 05:47:35 1998 From: edd at spdy.com (edd at spdy.com) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:47:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing! Message-ID: <626.93044.498896@user932029.nessor.com> Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing. And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two! It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! There is absolutely no cost to you. Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! You must be at least 18 years old to enter. To enter the drawing go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm HOT STOCK UPDATE Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant�s Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies. We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry. We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level. Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm NOTE: For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists go to:edd at spdy.comand type remove. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. * Responding to the " return address & quot; will NOT have your name removed. Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing. And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two! It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! There is absolutely no cost to you. Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! You must be at least 18 years old to enter. To enter the drawing go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm HOT STOCK UPDATE Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant�s Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies. We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry. We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level. Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm NOTE: For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists go to:edd at spdy.comand type remove. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. * Responding to the " return address & quot; will NOT have your name removed. From declan at well.com Sat Dec 19 14:37:58 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:37:58 +0800 Subject: Preemptive, proactivism In-Reply-To: <367B3EAA.2F870154@shentel.net> Message-ID: <199812192205.OAA13533@smtp.well.com> At 12:50 AM 12-19-98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote: >The recent cacophony of events in Washington D.C. may soon take on an >aura of japanese surrealism. The secret service is weighing the >necessity of having White House visitors and press conference attendees >remove their shoes. The ability to disperse anthrax toxin from the April 1 is coming early, I see. I go to White House events and other meetings inside the WH complex regularly, and believe me, there are other options the SS has besides asking reporters to go shoeless. -Declan From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sat Dec 19 14:49:51 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:49:51 +0800 Subject: international free crypto campaign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219141405.009104e0@idiom.com> They're _all_ animated blinking things. Ugly. Some of them have good content, but there need to be static non-animated regular GIFs. Aside from the aesthetic issues, there are probably still browsers that don't support them, and certainly anything printed on dead trees or other static media won't display the animation. >We are in the midst of developing logos 4 the global campaign >proposed as followup 2 the Wassenaar decision. >The logos are here: > > http://www.quintessenz.at/freecrypto.html > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From sal at panix.com Sat Dec 19 15:05:10 1998 From: sal at panix.com (Salvatore Denaro) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:05:10 +0800 Subject: FCPUNX:Clinton Attacks Iraq In-Reply-To: <199812190315.TAA25505@anon7b.sunder.net> Message-ID: <008f01be2b9f$1dac7b30$0201010a@aurora.panix.com> > From : Frederick Burroughs > Subj : Clinton Attacks Iraq > Date : Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:13:10 -0500 > Eric Cordian wrote: > > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention > > from his cocksucking problems. > > No, I blame his irritability on lack of nookie. Unable to get his > his willy > slick of late, it's not surprising he needs to kick the dog, or lob some > ordinance into the backyard of the middle eastern assholes nextdoor. Maybe > if he gets drunk enough he'll take some pot shots... Yeehaa! Caught between Iraq and a hard-one? Perhaps would should allow our elected officials to keep concubines. After all, no man is going to end the world on a crappy Monday morning if there a chance of getting some that night. I'm willing to bet that the money used to launch one cruise missile could support keeping a group of well funded presidential concubines around for the duration of his eight year presidency. From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 19 15:22:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:22:50 +0800 Subject: Iwhack Message-ID: <199812192253.XAA04374@replay.com> At 07:50 PM 12/17/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote: >Specifically, positioning data from GPS receivers used by weapons inspectors at >inspection sites in Iraq provided precise targeting coordinates for US cruise >missiles. Information from UN inspectors was also used to prioritize targets >into several categories, including: High threat defensive sites such as >antiaircraft missile and radar facilities, medium threat command and >communications sites, and low threat power and manufacturing plants. GPS data >was essential for targeting high threat sites located near residential areas. It is not always entirely propoganda that embassy people, peace corps types, businessmen, etc. are spies. From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 19 15:24:13 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:24:13 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812192258.XAA04791@replay.com> :: Subject: infiltration At 05:57 PM 12/18/98 -0800, Pallas Anonymous Remailer wrote: >How to Spot a Government Infiltrator > > by Mike Johnson > >Arguably the best way to deal with people who meet criteria 1-10 is simply to invite them to leave >the unit. As Starr and McCranie found out, trying to turn them in will do no good at all, so the next >best bet is to try to get them to leave. You may also want to post their faces anonymously on relevent lists. Phrase it to avoid liability, or not. False alarms are regrettably a consequence of security. Ms Winchester From measl at mfn.org Sat Dec 19 16:15:46 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:15:46 +0800 Subject: FCPUNX:Clinton Attacks Iraq In-Reply-To: <008f01be2b9f$1dac7b30$0201010a@aurora.panix.com> Message-ID: ::I'm willing to bet that the money used to launch one cruise missile ::could support keeping a group of well funded presidential concubines ::around for the duration of his eight year presidency. Hey, we're not talking about JFK here ya'know... A cruise missile is only about 800K$ (sans exotic warhead) apiece: hardly enough to keep as many concubines as Klinton would likely need... Maybe RonCo can make some kind of Presidential Satisfier instead of all those slicing/dicing machines they sell this time of year??? ;-0 Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 19 20:22:35 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:22:35 +0800 Subject: Intel security hub Message-ID: <199812200355.EAA26562@replay.com> > I wonder what government sponsored back doors they plan to include... > > http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981214S0008 This has been mentioned before. Only suggested response so far is to fight tooth and nail to ensure that hub-dependent programs can work transparently with a software fill-in. Otherwise you could potentially need to break a tamper-resistant chip, patch the software (fortify^2...), or pull off some such superhuman feat. (By the way, the address for letters to the editors of Mobile Computing and Communications, in case you want to respond to the articles mentioned, is ) More redundant reiterations of senseless nonsense: I'm not so confident it'd be backdoored, but if it's closed-source (not unlikely) that is, for obvious reasons, bad. Even if not, it will, with probability just barely <1, result in Intel as a major CA. I don't think the hub'd be backdoored because it'd be a risky investment for anybody to backdoor it; although I'm not sure the hub'd be closed-source, anything trivially and undetectably compromised is about as bad; Intel'd use the hub to become a CA just because it makes business sense. > > Intel's Security Plans Worry PC Builders > > (12/14/98, 3:49 p.m. ET) > By Rick Boyd-Merritt and Mark Carroll, EE Times > > Intel will add new security and software functions to future > chip sets in a move that will boost the profile of its > upcoming Katmai processors as key silicon for multimedia > and e-commerce. But the plan is raising concerns among > software, semiconductor and systems companies that fear > the processor giant could wind up encroaching on their > markets, extending its own reach deeper into the PC > architecture. > > Intel's plans center around a so-called firmware hub, > essentially a flash memory with key BIOS functions, > which will be part of its Camino, Carmel, and Whitney chip > sets. Those products will accompany next year's Katmai > processors and are expected to be used in the Merced line, > too. > > "This is an example of Intel taking in one more piece of the > PC architecture," said a senior R&D manager with a major > PC company who asked not to be named. > > Intel would not comment on its unannounced products. > However, the key features of the chip are beginning to > come to light based on reports from multiple sources. The > firmware hub is "basically a flash chip with locks on its > read and write capabilities that can be opened using a > cryptographic protocol," said another source briefed by > Intel. > > Hardware security functions include a cryptographic > engine to authenticate digital certificates Intel or a third > party could load in. The chip could hold multiple > certificates, each with permission to grant specific > features, such as to permit an operating system or an > MPEG player to run. They would also ensure a software > program licensed to one user was not copied and run on > another machine, a common practice. In addition, the > certificates will act like unique serial numbers, identifying a > given machine in any Internet or corporate network > transaction, sources said. > > The hub may also include a random-number generator to > create public keys for encryption and help enable > encrypted transmissions between PCs. That would provide > security for e-commerce and software downloads, > possibly including software modules for host-based > modems, MPEG players, or audio codecs that are > housed in the firmware hub and run on the CPU. > > Another feature sources have mentioned is physical > security, linking sensors to the hub so it may report > problems to a central network administrator if the case is > tampered with or peripherals are removed. > > Even though the firmware -- and the chip sets it is part of > -- are not due for production until at least mid-1999, > samples have been available in Taiwan for some time. > > "We have had samples of the firmware hub for a while," > said a project manager at First International Computer, in > Taiwan. "We really haven't done too much with it yet. It is > still not quite clear when it will be used and what its > full functions will be." > > The hub chip is designed to incorporate new features into > the PC upon start-up, the manager said, not to replace the > standard BIOS, the key software that controls system I/O > peripherals software. > > "After a PC is turned on, the firmware hub will be > accessed and then the regular BIOS," said a BIOS > engineer with another Taiwanese company. "The hub will > affect the standard BIOS architecture, but it certainly > won't replace it. That's not its purpose." > > Yet the prospect of a possible Intel incursion into BIOS is > giving some industry observers the willies. Adding to their > concern is the fact that Intel has not provided technical > details about its implementation yet. One analyst said the > hub will act as a BIOS registry, a place from which > software emulation and upgrades can be controlled. > > Sources close to Intel suggested the Santa Clara, Calif., > company would be leery of entering a new PC-related > market while under the shadow of a Federal Trade > Commission investigation. The company's motive is simply > to bring new features to the PC, enhancing sales for > corporate and consumer users, these sources said. > > Still, "If Intel controls what and how stuff gets put in the > BIOS, that's really significant," said one analyst. > "That's a wonderful control choke point." > From emc at wire.insync.net Sat Dec 19 21:09:46 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:09:46 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre Message-ID: <199812200446.WAA16015@wire.insync.net> Force hundreds of people to be imprisoned against their will, and injected with potentially lethal antibiotics, with one simple 25 cent phone call. ----- LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Ninety-one people were held for almost eight hours as a health precaution after an anonymous threat claimed anthrax had been released into the air ducts of a federal building. The people were given antibiotics and special suits to wear over their clothes Friday before preliminary tests showed none of them had been infected with the potentially deadly bacterium. Authorities held the people, most of them U.S. Bankruptcy Court staff members, as firefighters and FBI investigators tested the ventilation system for anthrax spores. Those tests also came up empty, said Jonathan Fielding, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Health Department. The FBI would not release details of how the threat was delivered. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 19 21:34:38 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:34:38 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre Message-ID: <199812200517.GAA00108@replay.com> >Force hundreds of people to be imprisoned against their will, and >injected with potentially lethal antibiotics, with one simple 25 cent >phone call. > >----- > >LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Ninety-one people were held for almost eight hours >as a health precaution after an anonymous threat claimed anthrax had >been released into the air ducts of a federal building. > >The people were given antibiotics and special suits to wear over their >clothes Friday before preliminary tests showed none of them had been >infected with the potentially deadly bacterium. > >Authorities held the people, most of them U.S. Bankruptcy Court staff >members, as firefighters and FBI investigators tested the ventilation >system for anthrax spores. Those tests also came up empty, said >Jonathan Fielding, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Health >Department. > >The FBI would not release details of how the threat was delivered. The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here. If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it for you. >From a medical standpoint, it may be better to inject them with antibiotics before the test results are back, in an attempt to increase chances of survival. I can also understand the containment suits. The fact that it can be done with a 25 cent phone call is funny. From tcmay at got.net Sat Dec 19 22:03:21 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:03:21 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre In-Reply-To: <199812200446.WAA16015@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: At 8:46 PM -0800 12/19/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >Force hundreds of people to be imprisoned against their will, and >injected with potentially lethal antibiotics, with one simple 25 cent >phone call. > >----- > >LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Ninety-one people were held for almost eight hours >as a health precaution after an anonymous threat claimed anthrax had >been released into the air ducts of a federal building. > >The people were given antibiotics and special suits to wear over their >clothes Friday before preliminary tests showed none of them had been >infected with the potentially deadly bacterium. > >Authorities held the people, most of them U.S. Bankruptcy Court staff >members, as firefighters and FBI investigators tested the ventilation >system for anthrax spores. Those tests also came up empty, said >Jonathan Fielding, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Health >Department. > >The FBI would not release details of how the threat was delivered. Which Cypherpunks live in or near L.A. and are involved in some way with the Bankruptcy Court? --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Sat Dec 19 22:23:32 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:23:32 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre In-Reply-To: <199812200517.GAA00108@replay.com> Message-ID: At 9:17 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote: >The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here. > >If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could >potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these >people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of >bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it >for you. This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly nonexistent. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 19 22:52:01 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:52:01 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre Message-ID: <199812200637.HAA04958@replay.com> >At 9:17 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote: > >>The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here. >> >>If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could >>potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these >>people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of >>bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it >>for you. > >This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly >nonexistent. If this is true, we've caught the media in yet another lie. The media likes to paint the picture that anthrax can be released in an airport and spread to all corners of the country in a matter of hours. Typical of the media. Shame on me for accessing anything they've shoved down my throat. :) From ian at deepwell.com Sat Dec 19 23:30:22 1998 From: ian at deepwell.com (Ian Briggs) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:30:22 +0800 Subject: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19981219230139.0204c840@deepwell.com> > Impeachment is no longer enough: only assasination could hope to >bring Justice to the world at this point. Great. Expect a Secret Service visit from this e-mail Im sooooo glad you thought you should share this with the rest of the list. Can't wait to say "got mine" like all the rest of the cool people... Ian Welcome to 1984 as with all goverment projects, its a bit late and slightly overbudget -Ian Briggs. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Dec 20 01:41:56 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:41:56 +0800 Subject: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219204957.008297e0@idiom.com> At 05:57 PM 12/18/98 -0800, some allegedly anonymous dissipator forwarded an allegedly militia-movement article on > How to Spot a Government Infiltrator and why you should be afraid, very afraid. Back in the 60s-90s, the Peace Movement dealt with this kind of problem as well, with the FBI and others trying to interfere with their interference with government. And the Commies and Labor Movement before them. Now it's the right wing's turn, as well as libertarians, and crypto-privacy advocates, and financial-privacy advocates, and chemical-privacy enthusiasts. > moles Not a problem here - anybody can subscribe to the list, and the physical meetings are open. We even had a guy from Colorado who said his name was "Lawrence" who hung around for half a meeting and disappeared quietly before any public notice was taken of his probable identity :-) > dissipators > Given that the people who are attracted to the constitutionalist > militia movement usually tend to be strong willed and opinionated > people to begin with, such an agent may find that his task is > somewhat easier than it might be if he were working with other groups. Certainly we've got no problem with that here :-) Ok, it has happened, and the tools that people built dealing with Detweiler(s) and spammers have been the beginnings of things we'd need in the future anyway. > agent provocateur > (2) Wants to get everybody else to make bombs. In this case, it's "wants to get everybody to export crypto and get busted", but the good guys do that too. I was once at a roughly 10-person protest against the previous day's workers-without-identity-papers bust by the local La Migra, cops, and press, and one of the folks from "Refuse and Resist" who showed up kept saying we should go out and bust the sheriff's departments' heads. Maybe he was just a bad peacenik as opposed to a provocateur. > (5) No obvious means of support, especially if they have > lots of money to throw around. The classic way that Commies recognized infiltrators during the Red Scare days was that they were the ones who paid their dues :-) In the cypherpunk business, nobody's unemployed, they're just computer consultants, or freelance journalists, or professional investors, or retired successful entrepreneurs, or financial privacy consultants who attend money laundering conventions, so this one's no help; might as well suspect folks who are long-term employees of telecommunications monopolies or defense contractors..... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Dec 20 01:48:47 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:48:47 +0800 Subject: CyberScam In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981023111259.007c9100@max-web.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219212836.008297e0@idiom.com> At 12:43 PM 12/16/98 -0800, Tim May wrote >I wanted to see what other nonsense this nitwit has written, and found this: >At 10:12 AM -0800 10/23/98, Kevlar wrote: >>My bad. You were serious. But still... > >My bad _what_? The fragment "My bad" is nonsense. Don't be an old fogey, Tim :-) I've heard the phrase from young and otherwise at least semi-educated people. Like, language evolves, y'know -- it's far out that the younger generation is participating in the literary process, man. Donaldson's law suggests that Sturgeon was an optimist, and one hopes that this phrase will soon be recognized for its place in the 90+% and fall out of fashion, rather than spurring a major industry like the annoying "Successories" wall-plaques with MBA/salesdroid jargon on them. At least its meaning is generally clear in context, unlike some of the popular post-modernist drivel, and its artificial stupidity is no more artificial than using "mea culpa" in modern English. >>Mozilla (NS), IE, and many other less well known (but certianly as popular) >>WEB browsers have encryption built right into them, so you can do things >>"Securely". Nobody uses their real name on the internet, unless it's for >>buisness, >Nonsense. Many of us use our "real names" on the Internet, right here on >this non-business list. In fact, real names outnumber nyms by probably >10-1. Ditto for most of the Usenet and most mailing lists. Chat rooms may >be a different story...I wouldn't know about them. Similarly, IRC and CuSeeMe appear to be nym-oriented rather than real-sounding-name-oriented. AOL isn't exactly the internet, but it tends to use screen names. I'm not sure about ICQ, but I think it's also nym-oriented, and it's got 10 million or so users. >>Naturally this is in compareison to the internet's predacessor (Not >>ARPAnet, that was a government project. BBS's came first) >>>itgrumble>, which were mostly free to anyone who came and wanted to dl/ul a >>file or post in the message base. And usally if it wasn't open you could >>apply for access. > >No, BBBs (not "BBS's") did _not_ come first. I had an ARPANet account in >1973 or so, long before any meaningful BBSs were available. (And the >ARPANet goes back to 1967-8 or so.) The Better Business Bureau has been around much longer than that? Ward Christiansen, inventor of XModem, also credits himself with inventing the "first" BBS in 1978. Perhaps it was the first for cheap PCs, but I'd already been using the Plato Notesfile system for about 3 years by then, which was really just a better BBS running on a much more expensive computer and terminals (plus it had multiplayer interactive Space War :-) and it wasn't too new when I started using it. And ARPAnet mailing lists had been around for quite a while before 78, as well as mailing lists in the BITnet/CSnet/Phonenet environments. Usenet emerged around 1981, and for the first few years was primarily running on dialup UUCP as well as higher-speed LANs of various sorts. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From edd at spdy.com Sun Dec 20 19:03:02 1998 From: edd at spdy.com (edd at spdy.com) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:03:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing! Message-ID: <600.114268.419843@user932029.nessor.com> Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing. And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two! It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! There is absolutely no cost to you. Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! You must be at least 18 years old to enter. To enter the drawing go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm HOT STOCK UPDATE Prime Marketing Inc. 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Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm NOTE: For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists go to:edd at spdy.comand type remove. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. * Responding to the " return address & quot; will NOT have your name removed. Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing. And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two! It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! There is absolutely no cost to you. Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! You must be at least 18 years old to enter. To enter the drawing go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm HOT STOCK UPDATE Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant�s Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies. We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry. We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level. Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm NOTE: For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists go to:edd at spdy.comand type remove. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. * Responding to the " return address & quot; will NOT have your name removed. Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing. And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two! It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! There is absolutely no cost to you. Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! You must be at least 18 years old to enter. To enter the drawing go to http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm HOT STOCK UPDATE Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant�s Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies. We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry. We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level. Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm NOTE: For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists go to:edd at spdy.comand type remove. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. * Responding to the " return address & quot; will NOT have your name removed. From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 20 04:29:59 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:29:59 +0800 Subject: The "Married Lesbian Underground" (was: Re: Huffington a Fag) Message-ID: <199812201141.MAA21834@replay.com> jackel at melbpc.org.au (jackel at melbpc.org.au) wrote: > >In fact, this is common enough that there are several "Married > >Lesbian" discussion boards, IRC chat channels, and private mailing > >lists where women involved in this deception swap notes, and plan > >their strategy. > > I too have noted this scenario, of women leaving their husbands, > getting the money and children, then coming out. I have seen parts of > an English (UK) book for lesbians advocating precisely that. > > Re the net forums, if you have further information/locations, etc. > would you please send it to me at the above email address or via the > alt.mens-rights newsgroup - even if they are just pointers in the > right direction. > > Thank you very much. One of them is the "Married But Lesbian" (MarBLes) mailing list moderated by Anna Holmes and hosted on the queernet.org server. This one is so ultra-paranoid that potential subscribers are required to submit biographic information to the moderator and undergo a screening "interview" of some sort prior to being admitted to the list. You can read more info on this lesbian networking tool at this URL at lesbian.org: http://www.lesbian.org/lesbian-lists/marbles.html The idea of using men as "a sperm bank with a checkbook" is really insidious, but by the time many of the victims of this deception find out they've been deceived and used, it's too late. The above URL, BTW, says that the list has a panel of six formerly married lesbians for "support", which seems to be a euphemism for coaching. Since marriage is a civil contract I wonder if such willful "interference with the performance of a contract" has ever been redressed in court. From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Sun Dec 20 06:38:28 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:38:28 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <3e797bb14d3337e2344cd4ff7c0f6b09@anonymous> > This has not been lost on those who battle right-wing terror. Early > next year, the FBI will launch a nationwide assessment of the threat > of domestic terrorism on and around Jan. 1, 2000. "I worry that every > day something could happen somewhere," Robert Blitzer, head of the > FBIs domestic terrorism unit, told the Los Angeles Times recently (see > interview also in this issue). > > "The odds are that something will happen." > The odds are that *something* will happen, if only because they finally decide to go and burn Tim May out. #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 20 08:40:20 1998 From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:40:20 +0800 Subject: FINAL REMINDER: new mix keys at notatla Message-ID: <199812201608.QAA09856@notatla.demon.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 New mix keys at notatla already in use. Old ones expire 21Dec1998. mccain mccain at notatla.demon.co.uk 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 2.0.4b41 MC - -----Begin Mix Key----- 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 258 AASe8KR46cRA75Jk4YMcE32gpS1uqAveFpRxPVg7 qATY4aPIyVM40QHa/OrHdVc8twmKMNemcdZNCpdb EDCtaVXLalJ7njbiLs8NMAEVP7WxMQP+1swjvHpR qP1ikuvy89iNpTbDtl9uf11PNeXiWclrCyFkvS6m 4cXFPskXoa4xWQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB - -----End Mix Key----- teatwo teatwo at notatla.demon.co.uk 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 2.0.4b41 MC - -----Begin Mix Key----- 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 258 AATVHyCqv2SGgaEbY0HVnBONNsSQwElFCdvSyxhq cGL4FZ5A1LGBAGNN+aHnfw0X8hvNsFB7EcmBsZ1v fUt64xRG5gy2+A3rMlad36iZfqrNBKncGh+Y/uEx nb+hTyANZNlHsUdAfo+lozx0xoB070e6K3rkgxDG GytOW9VjDTVR3QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB - -----End Mix Key----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.0i Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNmrcCTROc55Xv6voEQIs4ACeOat7f/0Kn5gLPazrp6rd+gGgsdEAn0nJ 4jhmxQQTvZWFg7d+BxM7WHHR =pz5z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant at notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From declan at well.com Sun Dec 20 08:42:33 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:42:33 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre In-Reply-To: <199812200637.HAA04958@replay.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981220110855.00c4a280@mail.well.com> At 07:37 AM 12-20-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >If this is true, we've caught the media in yet another lie. The media likes >to paint the picture that anthrax can be released in an airport and spread >to all corners of the country in a matter of hours. Damn! You've found us out. Time to alert The Cabal. -Declan From cyphrpnk at rainbow.thinkthink.com Sun Dec 20 09:15:49 1998 From: cyphrpnk at rainbow.thinkthink.com (cypherpu) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:15:49 +0800 Subject: CyberScam In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981219212836.008297e0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <199812201649.IAA21181@rainbow.thinkthink.com> Actually ward doesnt claim to have invented the first BBS he used to claim he had invented the first microcomputer based BBS( And that he did I used to run his software in chicago about a week after its initial releas on a pmmi-103?? modem(300 baud)....I wondered what ever happened to ward... Modem7 was a GOOD protocol at the time ... aonly to be supplanted by first ymodem then zmodem from chuck forsberg... P.s. I used to play on the plato system also(its official charter at the time was limited to educators and Comp-sci typs (of which I was the later) Plato was GREAT for multiplayer games like "intergalactic conflict",(memory is poor here)... BTW why Plato had a messaging system of sorts it is GREATLY stretching it to call it a BBS... cheers n OLD fart From emc at wire.insync.net Sun Dec 20 09:30:28 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:30:28 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812201710.LAA16562@wire.insync.net> Tim May writes: > This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is > nearly nonexistent. Indeed, which was my point. This type of operant conditioning of the sheeple is becoming almost routine. Witness the "Arab Oil Embargo", where there were long gas lines and blaming of the Arab world, without one drop of oil ceasing to flow into the United States. "Drug Lab" busts, with prolonged evacuation of several square blocks of neighborhood by men in astronaut garb are very routine now, every time the police find a can of ether or other organic solvent in some person's apartment. Children are marched outside a school, stripped, and hosed down by biohazard teams, because someone broke a mercury thermometer in class. Now we have the latest incarnation of adjusting sheeple motivational inperatives, Anthrax Theatre. Genuine Anthrax not required, of course. Yes children, see what happens because of Saddam Hussein? There'll be a test later, to see if further attitudinal adjustment is required. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From tcmay at got.net Sun Dec 20 09:37:54 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:37:54 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre In-Reply-To: <199812200637.HAA04958@replay.com> Message-ID: At 10:37 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote: >>At 9:17 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote: >> >>>The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here. >>> >>>If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could >>>potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these >>>people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of >>>bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it >>>for you. >> >>This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly >>nonexistent. > >If this is true, we've caught the media in yet another lie. The media likes >to paint the picture that anthrax can be released in an airport and spread >to all corners of the country in a matter of hours. > >Typical of the media. Shame on me for accessing anything they've shoved down >my throat. :) Even if I hadn't read "The Hot Zone," "The Coming Plague," "The Cobra Event," and various other CBW books and articles, and even if I hadn't visited the CDC and other Web sites, I would have known from news reports that the trick to using anthrax as a weapon is to properly disperse the spores. Human to human contact is a poor way to disperse these spores. Eating the flesh of anthrax-infected humans _may_ spread the spores, but data are too sparse to verify this. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Dec 20 10:48:35 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:48:35 +0800 Subject: Anthrax [DoD] Message-ID: <199812201824.MAA00621@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.defenselink.mil/other_info/agent.html > Go to Home Page - U.S. Department of Defense U.S. DEPARTMENT OF > DEFENSE > Home Site Map Search major sections are next NEWS MULTIMEDIA > PUBLICATIONS QUESTIONS? > > Information Paper > Anthrax as a Biological Warfare Agent > * Anthrax is the preferred biological warfare agent because: > > * It is highly lethal. > > * 100 million lethal doses per gram of anthrax material (100,000 > times deadlier than the deadliest chemical warfare agent). > * Silent, invisible killer. > * Inhalational anthrax is virtually always fatal. > > * There are low barriers to production. > > * Low cost of producing the anthrax material. > * Not high-technology. Knowledge is widely available. > * Easy to produce in large quantities. > > * It is easy to weaponize. > > * It is extremely stable. It can be stored almost indefinitely as a > dry powder. > * It can be loaded, in a freeze-dried condition, in munitions or > disseminated as an aerosol with crude sprayers. > > * Currently, we have a limited detection capability. > * What is Anthrax? > > * Anthrax is a naturally occurring disease of plant eating animals > (goats, sheep, cattle, wine, etc.) caused by the bacterium > Bacillus anthracis. > * It is an illness which has been recognized since antiquity. > Anthrax was common in essentially all areas where livestock are > raised. Intensive livestock immunization programs have greatly > reduced the occurrence of the disease among both animals and > humans in much of the world, an most outbreaks occur in areas > where immunization programs have not been implemented or have > become compromised (primarily Africa and Asia; however, outbreaks > occurred during the mid- I 990's in Haiti and the former Soviet > Union). > * Anthrax spores can remain viable for several decades under > suitable environmental conditions; thus, absence of cases does not > equate to absence of risk. > > * Humans can contract anthrax in three ways: > > * Through cuts or breaks in the skin resulting from contact with an > infected animal (cutaneous anthrax), resulting in local and > possibly systemic (bloodstream) infection. > > * From breathing anthrax spores (termed "woolsorters" disease) > resulting in an infection of the lungs (inhalational anthrax). > > * From eating infected meat, resulting in gastrointestinal infection > (gastrointestinal anthrax). Gastrointestinal anthrax is generally > not considered a threat to U.S. forces. > * What are the symptoms? > > * Symptoms of anthrax begin after a 1 to 6 day incubation period > following exposure. > > * For contact or cutaneous anthrax, itching will occur at the site > of exposure followed by the formation of a lesion. Untreated > contact anthrax has a fatality rate of 5-20 percent, but with > effective antibiotic treatment, few deaths occur. > * Initial symptoms for inhalational anthrax are generally > non-specific: low grade fever, a dry hacking cough, and weakness. > The person may briefly improve after 2 to 4 days; however within > 24 hours after this brief improvement, respiratory distress occurs > with shock and death following shortly thereafter. > > * Almost all cases of inhalational anthrax, in which treatment was > begun after patients have exhibited symptoms, have resulted in > death, regardless of post-exposure treatment. > * What is the medical countermeasure? > > * Prior to exposure, prevention through vaccination, using the > FDA-licensed vaccine. > * Otherwise, antibiotics such as penicillin, ciprofloxacin, and > doxycycline are the drugs of choice for treatment of anthrax. > * Treatment with antibiotics must begin prior to the onset of > symptoms and must include vaccination prior to discontinuing their > use. > * The use of antibiotics keep the patient alive until their body can > build an immunity to anthrax via vaccination. After symptoms > appear however, inhalational anthrax is almost always fatal, > regardless of treatment. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Updated: 10 Jun 1998 > Contact Us > Security and Privacy Notice > ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From frantz at netcom.com Sun Dec 20 11:54:00 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 03:54:00 +0800 Subject: CyberScam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:28 PM -0700 12/19/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 12:43 PM 12/16/98 -0800, Tim May wrote >>Nonsense. Many of us use our "real names" on the Internet, right here on >>this non-business list. In fact, real names outnumber nyms by probably >>10-1. Ditto for most of the Usenet and most mailing lists. Chat rooms may >>be a different story...I wouldn't know about them. > >Similarly, IRC and CuSeeMe appear to be nym-oriented rather than >real-sounding-name-oriented. AOL isn't exactly the internet, >but it tends to use screen names. I'm not sure about ICQ, but >I think it's also nym-oriented, and it's got 10 million or so users. The Palace (http://www.thepalace.com) is mostly nym oriented. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | thing right, but did know | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the century would end. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From rah at shipwright.com Sun Dec 20 14:06:12 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:06:12 +0800 Subject: ShootBack this Thursday (answers to questions) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:54:24 -0500 Subject: ShootBack this Thursday (answers to questions) From: mann at eecg.toronto.edu To: wear-hard at haven.org Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:48:07 -0500 (EST) Resent-From: wear-hard at haven.org Resent-Sender: wear-hard-request at haven.org several people have been asking questions about national shootback day this thursday at noon. for example a lot of people have asked why the day before christmas, for which there is an answer, e.g. just bring a camera with you when you go christmas shopping, and try to capture the spirit of the herds of christmas shopping customers being watched from above... it was felt that a faq would help immensely, so here is the national shootback day faq: http://wearcam.org/nad-faq.htm NATIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY DAY (NAD) FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ) Q. What is NAD? A. NAD is short for National Accountability Day. To some it is a protest against those who hold us accountable but refuse to or try to avoid being accountable to us. To others, it's a fun celebration of mutual accountability. To some, it's a chance to get revenge by shooting at people who are members of an organization who's been shooting at them. To others, it's a chance to help those who have helped them, by giving them the gift of protection. It's different things to different people, but the one common element is that it involves taking pictures of people who are involved in placing us under video surveillance. Q. How can I give the gift of protection this Christmas season? A. On the entrances to their shops, their signs say ``for YOUR protection you are being videotaped''. Isn't it heartwarming to see that they are offering you so much love and compassion? In return, you must offer them the same protection. By photographing them, you will show them that you love them and care for them. Put them in your family album, and cherish their smiles for centuries. Q. Who was the inventor or originator of NAD? A. NAD is not the vision of a single individual, but, rather, it is the work of an international coalition that includes artists, scientists, engineers, and scholars. Q. When is NAD? A. December 24, 1998 Q. Why December 24th? Won't the stores be kind of crowded with last minute Christmas shoppers then? A. That's exactly the point of selecting December 24th. The meaning of Christmas has become one of consumerism. Like herds of animals we are shepherded into the shops only to be distrusted by the shopkeepers who watch over us from on high, with their omniscient surveillance network. When the sheep are greatest in number, the shopkeepers will have a more difficult time of keeping order. Moreover, it gets boring waiting in the long lineups. Why not pass away the time standing in line, by doing a little shooting. So take a camera along during your Christmas shopping and do a little camera shooting. Why was Christmas Eve chosen ? The shops will be rather busy. A. that's exactly why. 12:00 noon dec.24th will be the busiest day, and the best expression of corporate culture, and the best time to shoot. It's a human element.. crowds of people herded like cattle, overseen by the surveillance. Also the lineups will be long, so it was felt that folks could entertain themselves while waiting in line by shooting. When you get bored waiting in line, liven it up with some camerafire. Shoot when you're bored. Shoot when you're frustrated. Shoot when you're being shot!!! Q. Is NAD the same as ShootBack Day? A. Yes, NAD is also known to many as National ShootBack Day or National ShootingBack Day. (ShootBack is one word! There is no space between Shoot and Back.) Q. Isn't 12:00 noon going to happen at different times since the different parts of the nation are in different time zones? Furthermore, National Accountability Day is International. If that itself isn't an oxymoron, then at least it adds to the confusion since different coutries around the world are in much different time zones. A. That's exactly the point of doing it at noon. As high noon sweeps past various time zones, the shot heard around the world will be that of clicking cameras. This shot will travel around the world, and the shot heard around the world will be the shot seen around the world, later on when the contest submissions come in. The shot seen around the world will be seen in the nationless realm of cyberspace, hence the term ``National'' is partly in jest, for it is certainly not limited to any nation in particular. Q. How do I enter the contest? A. Send your pictures to International Photo Contest, 284 Bloor Street West, Suite 701, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5S 3B8 All submissions become property of NAD and will not be returned. Winning entries along with a large number of the submissions will be posted to the online gallery. Q. What format should the pictures be in? A. Any developed format (print, film positive, film negative, etc.), or any file format that can be read using GNU software under Gnu Public License on a computer running the Linux operating system. Alternatively, submissions may be placed on an FTP or HTTP server and the address or URL may be submitted. Any submissions that require commercial software or commercial operating systems to read will be discarded without review. Acceptable media include slides, silver halide prints, or other standard forms of photographic prints up to 8.5 by 11 inches, computer printouts, film negatives, plates (glass plate negatives up to 8 by 10 inches), film negative strips, film positive strips, diffractive prints, 3.5 inch floppy disks, ISO 9660 CD ROMs, IDE devices, or SCSI devices. Photographic media must have been developed (e.g. no undeveloped films or forms that require chemical treatment or processing by NAD staff will be accepted). If submissions are made by URL, the image format must be universally readable from any WWW browser. Q. I have heard that NAD is a protest? Is this true? Will there be a march? A. If you prefer to think of NAD as a protest, it can certainly be explained that way. Rather than protesting by carrying signs, or by marching, citizens will protest by going on shooting sprees. Armed with their own photographic or videographic cameras and recording devices, ordinary citizens will dish out some accountability by taking pictures of people who are representatives of organizations who are taking pictures of them. Q. If NAD isn't a protest, than what is it? A. Another equally valid interpretation is that NAD is an agreement with the status quo rather than a protest against it. In this interpretation cameras are good, so let's have more of them. Pictures are good, so let's all take pictures. If a department store is such a dangerous place that cameras are needed, then so be it. What's good for the goose is good for the gangster. Everyone shoots everyone and we're all happy. ``Only criminals are afraid of cameras'', so let's give representatives of the Surveillance Superhighway a chance to define themselves by seeing if they're afraid of cameras. When we ask why we are under video surveillance, we are told by the Bigs that ``only criminals are afraid of cameras'', or we are asked ``why are you so paranoid''. Now is the time to allow the Bigs to define themselves. Q. How can I participate? A. All you need to do is bring a camera --- any camera --- to a place where video surveillance is used. Q. How will I know who I should shoot? A. Taking pictures of the surveillance cameras will cause models to appear very quickly for you to photograph. When you point your camera at their cameras, the officials watching their television monitors will very quickly dispatch the models for you to shoot. This is a universal phenomenon that happens in nearly any large organization where video surveillance is used. Models often carry two--way radios and wear navy blue uniforms with special badges. Most will be eager to pose close to your camera, especially the hand models. They will reach out and place their hands over your camera lens so you can get a closup hand shot. Q. What is the rationale behind NAD? A. We are all accountable for our actions. The Bigs keep us under surveillance, whether we're just walking down the street, shopping, or sometimes even when we're changing clothes in their fitting rooms (Phil Patton, Jan. '95, WiReD). That's why Thursday, December 24th is National Accountability Day. This is the day to arm yourself with a camera, or other photographic or videographic instrumentation, and enter various department stores, and other establishments that match the classic definition of totalitarian (e.g. establishments that wish to know everything about everyone yet reveal nothing about themselves). Q. What are some examples of totalitarian establishments? A. Examples of totalitarian establishments are those in which we are placed under extensive video surveillance, yet we are prohibited from taking pictures ourselves. The goal of National Accountability Day is to challenge this one-sided aspect of Totalitarian Surveillance. Q. What subject matter, other than pictures of the surveillance cameras and representatives of the SS should I shoot? A. Participants will also photograph or make videos of any illegal activity they happen to encounter in these totalitarian establishments. Evidence of illegal activity includes fire exits chained shut, and other forms of entrapment, forcible confinement doors, and the like, which are potential fire hazards. Q. Should I shoot alone, or be part of a firing squad. A. Going salvo is better than going solo. It is preferable that groups of citizens participate in unison, to prevent, or at least document illegal theft or vandalism of photographic equipment by the Bigs. Q. Is there a deeper philisophical underpinning to NAD, or is it just a bunch of angry people going postal? A. The camera is like Hamlet's Mirror, allowing the Bigs to define themselves within a Reflectionist context. Reflectionism holds up a mirror to society, and constructs this mirror in a symmetrical way, so that it is defined on the same terms as that which it calls into question. Q. Is there any slogan or aphorism I might use to publicize NAD? A. Shoot Authority First Question Authority Later. (Shoot first, ask questions later) Q. Is NAD a photo conntest? A. There is a photo contest associated with NAD. For entry instructions, see http://wearcam.org/nad-entry.htm -- Subcription/unsubscription/info requests: send e-mail with subject of "subscribe", "unsubscribe", or "info" to wear-hard-request at haven.org Wear-Hard Mailing List Archive (searchable): http://wearables.ml.org --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Dec 20 14:56:57 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:56:57 +0800 Subject: major phone company & y2k Message-ID: <199812202219.OAA27152@netcom13.netcom.com> internet company documents suggest severe problems ------- Forwarded Message Subject: Y2K Alert - 12/17/98 - Internal documents reveal telecomm truth Sent: 12/16/98 11:50 PM Received: 12/17/98 10:37 PM From: alertsend at y2knewswire.com To: Eddie Pons, ponski at soft-link.com The following is a free Y2K alert + analysis from Y2KNEWSWIRE. COM. You signed up for this. Removal / unsubscribe instructions and e-mail contacts are at the bottom of this e-mail. *Do not* reply by hitting 'reply' in your e-mail program. To reach us, you must use one of the e-mail addresses given below. ____________________________________________________________ SECRET DOCUMENTS REVEAL Y2K TELECOMM TRUTH: A MAJOR LONG-DISTANCE COMPANY KNOWS THEY WON'T MAKE IT (But they won't admit it publicly...) Y2KNEWSWIRE recently received a collection of internal documents from an employee at one of the major long-distance companies. The documents appear to be genuine. However, to avoid copyright infringement, we cannot reprint them here. But we *can* paraphrase the documents without violating copyright law, and that's what we're going to do in this alert. We feel it is our responsibility to inform the public the truth about Y2K problems at large telecommunications companies. We are withholding the name of the company because frankly, the name does not matter. We think *all* the major telecommunications firms are in the same position. The problems described by this one are not unique. Every firm is playing the same spin game, avoiding a public admission of Y2K-guilt while privately, internally, they all know the situation is hopeless. Here's what we found in one particular document: [COMPANY] SUMMARIZES THE PROBLEM In the first part of the document, the company simply summarizes the Y2K problem. [COMPANY] ADMITS ENTIRE SYSTEMS COULD BE SHUT DOWN Mid-way through the documents, the company acknowledges that corrupt data could cause the shutdown of entire systems. They quote a study of network switch components conducted by Bellcore, describing how they were completely locked up after a simulated 2000 rollover. The company then refers to this as the, "Killer aspect" of the system. Then, the documents describe the company's ongoing efforts to solve the problem, pointing out that the deadline, "absolutely cannot slip." [COMPANY] ESTIMATES ITS EXPOSURE The company then says it has between 80 and 100 million lines of code that might be affected by the Millennium Bug. It goes on to call the bug a "virus," which is technically incorrect, but close enough for telecommunications work, apparently. Then the company describes another test of a Bellcore switch that experienced a frightening shutdown due to an expiring license date problem. The switch shut down completely. Another component apparently worked until April of 2000 (in simulation), then it, too, shut down as the daylight savings time change was attempted. [COMPANY] ADMITS THEY CAN'T MAKE IT! Then, the company's internal document claims that fixing the problem is, "too large a task" to finish in time. There simply aren't enough staff hours, according to these documents. The company then goes on to describe a strategy of triage: they'll accept failures in *some* systems in order to focus on the BIG ones. And that's the big challenge, they say: identifying the big systems and getting them remediated in time. THAT'S IT! The document then ends with a warning that all documentation is for internal use only and cannot be distributed outside the company. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Publicly, this company is telling people they will complete all Y2K remediation on time. We now have proof this is a *con job* designed to deceive customers and investors. And we suspect this is the situation with *most* companies. Internally, when the engineers sit around the lunch table, they all know the situation is basically hopeless. There simply isn't enough time remaining. But publicly, these companies vigorously defend their positions, claiming *everything* will be finished before 2000 and using classic denial phrases like, "We're well on our way..." and, "... the vast majority of our critical systems will be done." This is exactly why 2000 is going to be the biggest shocker we've seen in a generation. It's the moment at which all Y2K lies and deceptions are revealed. The spin melts away to reality. IT'S BEEN A WHILE Americans haven't seen this for a long, long time. Deceptions are the norm these days, and "truth" and "reality" seem to be relative -- especially in politics. The people in power have actually come to believe that words equal reality. If they say it, it must be true. Y2K is the one event that cannot be persuaded. It does not listen to spin and hype. It doesn't have a "mind" to be subjected to mind games. It will simply happen -- precisely on schedule. Remember, bureaucrats are not used to operating under these circumstances. Take the stock market, for instance. Because the stock market is essentially a vehicle of faith, when Clinton says the stock market is good, it *is* good because people believe him. The words have a direct causal effect. Y2KNEWSWIRE thinks politicians have forgotten that Y2K doesn't work that way. If all spinsters on the planet gathered together and gave us their best hype, it would still have zero effect on fixing the Millennium Bug. This is the point they don't understand. Do you wonder why John Koskinen continues telling people the federal government will have absolutely no Year 2000 problems? He's in spin mode, not reality mode. And he seems to believe his spin will somehow solve the problem. That's why 2000 will be a reality-check for at least half the population. Here's a completely objective issue that cannot be swayed by politics or persuasion. It's a pre-programmed event designed into the system. It can't be bargained with or reasoned with. And it most certainly won't listen to spin. SOCIAL SECURITY LIKELY TO MAKE IT This is virtually the *only* Y2K-compliance claim we believe. Social Security is going to make the deadline, no kidding. Why is that? They've spent *a decade* (employing over 700 programmers) to fix the bug. And they'll be done in June of 1999. Aside from the programmers, over 2800 people worked on the problem. This is exactly why the claims from other agencies that started much later -- like the FAA -- are simply lacking all credibility. Do the math here: 700 programmers x 10 years = 1,750,000 person-days of work. That's fourteen million hours of work, and that doesn't even count the 2800 *non-programmers.* So Social Security has spent 14 million hours correcting this problem, according to their own statement. How many hours has the FAA spent? Frankly, we don't know. But to equal 14 million hours in just two years (because they really weren't seriously working on it until early 1998), they would need to employ 3,500 programmers working full time! WHY WASN'T SOCIAL SECURITY FINISHED IN 1991? If these projects could really be completed in two years, why wasn't Social Security done in 1991? Why did it take TEN years to complete the job? If John Koskinen is to be believed, *all* federal projects, no matter how late they started, will be done in plenty of time. And that means two years is quite enough for most agencies. Why did Social Security take ten, then? You already know the answer. Note, however, that without telecommunications or banking, Social Security's compliance doesn't matter. Read the details at: http://www.amcity.com/atlanta/stories/1998/12/14/focus5.html SURVEY REVEALS INSIDER PESSIMISM According to this San Diego Daily Transcript story (link below), the Aberdeen Group conducted a survey at November's COMDEX computer show. Here are some of the more interesting survey results: * Less than half are confident their organization's "mission critical" desktop computer applications will work in 2000 * 20% said their organizations haven't even finished the Y2K assessment stage * 53% said they were "unsure" whether their compliant systems could be effectively shielded from corruption by non-compliant systems Read more details at: http://www.sddt.com/files/library/98/12/07/tca.html U.N. TO DEPLOY Y2K SWAT TEAMS These are basically "crisis intervention teams" that would visit countries with the worst problems and try to solve them. Question: if international transportation is down, how will the SWAT teams get around? Read the details in this CNN report: http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/12/y2k.un/ NEW ZEALAND COMPLIANCE PLANS NEAR COLLAPSE As this "Radio NZ" report reveals, plans to make public sector groups Y2K compliant are on the point of collapse. Read the details at: http://www.year2000.co.nz/y2krnz01.htm READER MAIL "I spoke with my bank (US Bank in Portland) and asked them about buying gold and silver coins. The bank employee looked at me and asked, "Y2K?" and I responded "Yes". She told me that I was about the 150th person this month to inquire about the conversion on assets to gold. She advised me to call the brokerage division of the bank." ________________ "At Grand Union in Smithtown, New York, I had a clerk recently ask me if we were invaded or something because so many people had packed the store for the can goods sale. At Waldbaums's in Ronkonkoma, when they put 20lb bags of rice on sale (about once a month) they FLY out the door. I saw one lady buying three." ________________ "Just a few weeks ago, diesel generators were readily available in the southern AZ area. Now there are none to be found. We are looking for one (obviously we postponed too long) and my husband remembered a large lumber/building supply store in a smaller AZ town that has always had a large supply of all kinds of generators (they service many contractors). He drove up there today and found they had ONE generator, a small 500 watt gas-type, on the shelf." - - Webmaster _____________________________________________ Get ready for Y2K, read the Y2K Sourcebook Get the inside sources for stocking up now http://www.y2ksupply.com/index.asp?pageid=sourcebook _____________________________________________ Tell a friend about the free Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM e-mail alert: http://www.y2knewswire.com/tellafriend.htm _____________________________________________ This e-mail message is subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.y2knewswire.com/Index.asp?pageid=disclaimer All statements made herein, and made since August of 1998, are Year 2000 Statements and are retroactively protected as Year 2000 readiness disclosures under the Good Samaritan Act _____________________________________________ To be removed from this e-mail list, simply go to the following web address: http://www.y2knewswire.com/u.asp?E=ponski at soft-link.com Or: http://www.y2knewswire.com/remove.htm _____________________________________________ Join the "believers-only" free Y2K e-mail newsletter: http://www.y2knewswire.com/believers.htm _____________________________________________ Please ignore this: (for undeliverable pruning only) http://www.y2ksupply.com/p.asp?E=ponski at soft-link.com _____________________________________________ HOW TO REACH US: If you have a hot tip for us (anonymity assured): tips at y2knewswire.com If you have a compliment: compliments at y2knewswire.com If you want to be added to the subscription list (free!), visit http://www.y2knewswire.com and enter your e-mail address in the sign up box located at the upper-left corner of the page. If you have a complaint: complaints at y2knewswire.com For questions about ordering: service at y2knewswire.com For any other comments: comments at y2knewswire.com - --------------5394A0C9D7D2472270037192 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Lynford Theobald Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Lynford Theobald n: ;Lynford Theobald email;internet: telnet12 at burgoyne.com x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------5394A0C9D7D2472270037192-- - -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com - -> Posted by: Lynford Theobald ------- End of Forwarded Message From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Dec 20 15:08:05 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:08:05 +0800 Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] "Anti-government groups" fighting "anti-money laundering" regulation] Message-ID: <199812202230.OAA28231@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Lynford Theobald Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] "Anti-government groups" fighting "anti-money laundering" regulation] Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 08:10:04 -0700 To: "snetnews at world.std.com" -> SNETNEWS Mailing List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F27EB234AAECCD21A8C78784 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keep up the good work. Again we can make it happen if we fight together. LT --------------F27EB234AAECCD21A8C78784 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: by bci for telnet12 (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Fri Dec 11 20:24:26 1998) X-From_: owner-scan at efga.org Thu Dec 10 21:46:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: from inferno.serversystems.net (inferno.serversystems.net [207.15.209.253]) by burgoyne.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA23503 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:46:07 -0700 Received: (from majordomo at localhost) by inferno.serversystems.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA07977 for scan-list.efga; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:34:25 -0500 Received: from alpha.airnet.net (page.airnet.net [207.120.51.2]) by inferno.serversystems.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07974; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:34:23 -0500 Received: from scottmcd (207.242.81.215) by alpha.airnet.net (Worldmail 1.3.167); 10 Dec 1998 21:31:48 -0600 From: "ScanThisNews" To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" Subject: [FP] "Anti-government groups" fighting "anti-money laundering" regulation Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:33:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01be24b7$08034640$d751f2cf at scottmcd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-scan at efga.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: owner-scan at efga.org X-Web-Site: http://www.efga.org/ X-Mail-List-Info: http://efga.org/about/maillist/ X-SCAN: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by burgoyne.com id IAA15087 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SCAN THIS NEWS 12/10/98 ---------------------- New anti-money laundering rules spark big protest on bank privacy 5.26 p.m. ET (2226 GMT) December 10, 1998 By Marcy Gordon,=A0Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) =97 Federal regulators are being deluged with thousands o= f e-mail messages from citizens furious about new anti-money laundering rul= es that they view as an invasion of privacy. As a visible symbol of the federal government with a plaque in every bank branch, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. has become a magnet for consumers' anger over the proposed rules. But regulators at other federal banking agencies also reported Thursday t= hey had received many protesting e-mails, letters and telephone calls =97 som= e of them apparently instigated by anti-government groups. The ire is directed at the proposed regulations, called "Know Your Customer'' rules, that would require banks to verify their customers' identities and know where their money comes from. Banks also would have t= o determine customers' normal pattern of transactions and report any "suspicious'' transactions to law enforcement authorities. The proposal, published Monday in the Federal Register, is designed to combat money laundering techniques used by drug traffickers and other criminals to hide illegal profits. Laundering includes the use of wire transfers and bank drafts as well as "smurfing,'' the practice of breakin= g down transactions into smaller amounts that don't have to be reported und= er banking laws. The torrent of e-mail, first reported in The Wall Street Journal Thursday= , came as the 90-day public comment period opened for the proposal. It reflects growing anxiety among consumers about banks' use of personal financial data =97 a concern that prompted a top federal regulator to war= n the banking industry this spring that it needs to protect customers' privacy. Someone from Texas wrote, "I am appalled at even the suggestion of such a= n intrusion into our personal lives by the federal government.'' In another message, a Florida doctor told the regulators: "Next you'll ... be implanting (an electronic) chip in newborns at birth so they can be scanned as they walk in any banks as an adult.'' FDIC spokesman David Barr said the agency had received a staggering 2,700 e-mails and letters opposing the proposal. At least some of the angry messages appear to have been inspired by anti-government groups claiming the proposed rules are part of a federal conspiracy aimed at limiting people's constitutional rights, according to the Journal and people close to the situation. Regulators and banking industry officials, who worked together on the new rules, have taken pains to reassure consumers that their privacy would be protected under the changes. "Because of privacy concerns, it is the ... expectation that banks would obtain only that information that is necessary to comply with the rule, a= nd would limit the use of this information to that purpose,'' the Office of = the Comptroller of the Currency, which regulates nationally chartered banks, said in a statement. John Byrne, senior counsel of the American Bankers Association, said, "Jo= e Q. Citizen needs to recognize that there's nothing for him or her to worr= y about.'' comments at foxnews.com =A9 1998, News America Digital Publishing, Inc. d/b/a Fox News Online. -----Original Message----- From: W.G.E.N. [mailto:idzrus at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 6:30 PM To: idzrus at earthlink.net Subject: NID:"KYC" Feds being deluged with Email protest =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Reply to: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --------------F27EB234AAECCD21A8C78784 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Lynford Theobald Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit begin: vcard fn: Lynford Theobald n: ;Lynford Theobald email;internet: telnet12 at burgoyne.com x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------F27EB234AAECCD21A8C78784-- -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: Lynford Theobald From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Dec 20 15:09:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:09:02 +0800 Subject: SNET: NYC's top cop to outline DNA plan: Message-ID: <199812202230.OAA28220@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "Mark A. Smith" Subject: SNET: NYC's top cop to outline DNA plan: Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:25:12 -0500 To: Maureen , SNET , L & J , David Rydel -> SNETNEWS Mailing List This From: Electric Times Union (Albany, NY), December 14, 1998 http://www.timesunion.com NYC's top cop to outline DNA plan: Proposal aims to use sampling as a strategy against repeat offenders http://www.timesunion.com/news/story.asp?storyKey=2960&newsdate=12/14/98 By RICHARD PYLE Associated Press NEW YORK -- Police Commissioner Howard Safir is going public with his proposal for New York City police to take a DNA sampling along with the fingerprints of everyone arrested -- a proposal already drawing fire from civil libertarians. Safir planned a speech at a Bronx high school today to formally outline his plan as a strategy against repeat offenders -- especially burglars, auto thieves and other specialists in property crimes. "I'm asking myself how am I going to continue to reduce crime,'' Safir told The New York Times in an interview. Crime in New York City has dropped by 50 percent in the last five years. The murder rate alone has fallen 20 percent from a year ago and is expected to finish the year at the lowest level since the early 1960s. Under Safir's plan, the police would take a swabbing from inside the suspect's cheek, a standard method of collecting DNA, and put it into a database for future reference. DNA is the unique genetic blueprint of each person, said by legal and forensic experts to be as reliable as fingerprints and far more useful in identifying individuals responsible for certain types of crime. Safir's plan would require action by the state Legislature to expand the circumstances under which DNA samples could be taken from criminal suspects. At present, New York state allows testing of felons convicted of 21 types of violent crime, including murder, rape and manslaughter. All other states have some form of database of DNA taken from felons, and last October, the FBI set up a long-discussed national DNA database beginning with 250,000 names, linked to state-maintained databases. Only Louisiana tests every person arrested for DNA, as Safir suggests for New York City. The genetic profile technology became widely known during the O.J. Simpson trial and has been used increasingly in law enforcement, both to identify criminals and to exonerate individuals falsely accused or convicted. Norman Siegel, director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, has objected to the proposal, contending that arrest is not sufficient grounds for authorities to collect personal genetic information, and would violate the Forth Amendment safeguard against unreasonable search and seizure. Involuntary testing for DNA has been challenged legally by several members of the armed forces and a group of women on California's death row. Copyright 1998, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, N.Y. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (1 - 6 clips most days) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: "Mark A. Smith" From riburr at shentel.net Sun Dec 20 15:45:50 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:45:50 +0800 Subject: Biological warfare by proxy Message-ID: <367D83DB.CEFCFFFE@shentel.net> The destruction of the al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum, Sudan, has left that country with little reserve of a medicine to fight malaria. The factory, which was thought to manufacture chemical warfare agents, was destroyed by US cruise missiles. The factory produced half of Sudan's medicines, leaving no supplies of chloroquine, the standard treatment for malaria. By destroying the means to make medicine to treat malaria, endemic to Sudan, the US has essentially engaged in biological warfare by proxy. A request by aid workers for more aid from the British Government to help supply medicine to Sudan has been rejected. Story at: http://reports.guardian.co.uk/articles/1998/12/20/p-39360.html From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 20 16:28:17 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:28:17 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812210000.BAA07957@replay.com> Prepping for Y2K armageddon so far has caused our taskforce little more trouble than post-its on each device showing an ode to Mercury for getting the lead out in time to lope upstairs shedding clothes for the bacchanale planned to celebrate the end of computer oversight of our infrapasture. We urge ourselves: good riddance to everything overmanaged by the matrixed interdependent skeins of networks and switches and redundancies and dev nulls and robot backups, time to get back in touch with fecund reality, slurp gutters, chew roots, sniff musks, chuck pixels. One mole aint into that, though, and uplinks us it's going to be evil incarnate under sky, without electromechanical life and love and think support systems, untethered, fending for ourselves, trying to walk and talk, itching filth, urging senses to pinpoint food and drink, getting no feedback, becoming terrified, running across a roadkilled computer, gathering around, toggling inputs, rooting peripherals, suckling outputs, so the saint preaches, you'll be gasping: why have you abandoned us, oh motherboard, boot up. Hooting, itching to get offline topside we backslash: Rev gospel, dirtworm. From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 20 17:06:01 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:06:01 +0800 Subject: FW: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21(excerpt) Message-ID: <199812210032.BAA10005@replay.com> Snip from the latest Privacy Forum Digest on commercial filtering software for enterprises, encryption and "criminal skills". cheers, C.G. -- A Navigo Farmer > -----Original Message----- > From: privacy at vortex.com [SMTP:privacy at vortex.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 4:58 PM > To: PRIVACY-Forum-List at vortex.com > Subject: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21 > > PRIVACY Forum Digest Sunday, 20 December 1998 Volume 07 : Issue > 21 > [...] > > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 98 12:25 PST > From: lauren at vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator) > Subject: Privacy Discussions Classified as a "Criminal Skill" > > Greetings. Is discussing privacy in the PRIVACY Forum a criminal skill? > According to one widely used commercial web filtering tool, the answer was > yes! The controversy over software to block access to particular sites, > based on perceived content, has been continuing to rage. Attempts to > mandate the use of such software in environments such as libraries and > schools have raised a variety of serious concerns. In addition to fairly > straightforward freedom of speech issues, another factor revolves around > how accurate (or inaccurate) these filtering systems really are. > > I've now seen firsthand that errors by a filtering system can indeed be > quite > serious, an event that seems to certainly validate some of these concerns. > But there is something of a silver lining to the story, as we'll see > later. > > I recently was contacted by someone at a large corporation, who was trying > to reach the PRIVACY Forum web site, which is constantly being referenced > by > individuals and commercial, educational, government, and other sites > around > the world. This person was upset since whenever they attempted to reach > the http://www.vortex.com site and domain that hosts the PRIVACY Forum, > their web software blocked them, informing them that the block was in > place > due to the site being categorized as containing "criminal skills." > > As the webmaster for the vortex.com domain, this certainly came as news to > me. The message they received didn't give additional information--they > didn't even know exactly where it came from. It was apparent though, that > the entire organization was probably blocked from reaching the PRIVACY > Forum, since the filtering software in question was affecting a main > firewall system. > > After a number of phone calls and discussions with the system > administrator > for that organization, the details began to emerge. The company was > running > a filtering software package from Secure Computing Corporation of San > Jose, > California. This package received weekly updates of blocked sites in a > wide > variety of categories, one of which was "criminal skills." > > The administrator had no idea what rationale was used for these decisions, > they just pulled in the list each week and applied it. He immediately > placed > vortex.com on a local exception list so that it would no longer be blocked > to > their users. > > I then turned my attention to Secure Computing. After a number of calls, > I > found myself speaking with Ken Montgomery, director of corporate > communications for that firm. He confirmed the information I had already > received. The filtering product in question ("SmartFilter") was > apparently > not being marketed to individuals, rather, it was sold to institutions, > corporations, etc. to enforce filtering policies across entire entities. > The product covers a wide range of information categories that users of > the > software can choose to block. He said that the majority of blocked sites > were in categories involving pornography, where there was (in his opinion) > no question of their not belonging there. > > The "criminal skills" category reportedly was broadly defined to cover > information that might be "of use" to criminals (e.g. how to build bombs). > He had no explanation as to why my domain had been placed in that list, > since by no stretch could any materials that are or have ever been > there fall into such a categorization. He did discover that the > classification of my domain had occurred over a year ago (meaning > other sites could have been receiving similar blocking messages for > that period of time when trying to access the PRIVACY Forum) and > that the parties who had made the original classification were no longer > with their firm--so there was no way to ask them for their rationale. > (All of their classifications are apparently made by people, not > by an automated system.) > > However, it seems likely that the mere mentioning of encryption may have > been enough to trigger the classification. The administrator at the > organization that had originally contacted me about the blocked access, > told > me that the main reason they included the "criminal skills" category in > their site blocking list was to try prevent their users from downloading > "unapproved" encryption software. This was a type of information that he > believed to be included under the Secure Computing "criminal skills" > category (the "logic" being, obviously, that since criminals can use > encryption to further their efforts, encryption is a criminal skill). He > also admitted that he knew that their users could still easily obtain > whatever encryption software they wanted anyway, but he had to enforce the > company policy to include that category in their blocking list. > > As PRIVACY Forum readers may know, no encryption software is or ever has > been distributed from here. The topic of encryption issues does certainly > come up from time to time, as would be expected. For the mere *mention* > of > encryption in a discussion forum to trigger such a negative categorization > would seem to suggest the fallacy of blindly trusting such classification > efforts. > > Mr. Montgomery of Secure Computing initially suggested that it was up to > their customers to decide which categories they wanted to use in their own > blocking lists--he also stated that as a company they were opposed to > mandatory filtering regulations. I suggested that such determinations by > their customers were meaningless if the quality of the entries in those > categories could not be trusted and if errors of this severity could so > easily be made. I felt that this was particularly true of a category with > an obviously derogatory nature such as "criminal skills"--the > ramifications > of being incorrectly placed into such a category, and then to not even > *know* about it for an extended period of time, could be extreme and very > serious. > > To their credit, my argument apparently triggered a serious discussion > within Secure Computing about these issues. I had numerous subsequent > e-mail and some additional phone contacts with Mr. Montgomery and others > in their firm concerning these matters. First off, they apologized > for the miscategorization of vortex.com, and removed it from the > "criminal skills" category (it was apparently never listed in any > other of their categories). > > Secondly, they have agreed with my concerns about the dangers of such > miscategorizations occurring without any mechanism being present for sites > to learn of such problems or having a way to deal with them. So, they > will > shortly be announcing a web-based method for sites to interrogate the > Secure > Computing database to determine which categories (if any) they've been > listed under, and will provide a means for sites to complain if they feel > that they have been misclassified. They've also suggested that their hope > is to provide a rapid turnaround on consideration of such complaints. > > While by no means perfect, this is a step forward. I would prefer a more > active notification system, where sites would be notified directly when > categorizations are made. This would avoid their having to > check to see whether or not they've been listed, and needing to keep > checking back to watch for any changes or new categorizations. If more > filtering software companies adopt the Secure Computing approach, there > would be a lot of checking for sites to do if they wanted to stay on > top of these matters. Secure Computing feels that such notifications are > not practical at this time. However, their move to provide some > accountability to their filtering classifications is certainly preferable > to > the filtering systems which continue to provide no such facilities and > operate in a completely closed environment. > > So, we make a little progress. The PRIVACY Forum and vortex.com are no > longer miscategorized and have been removed from all Secure Computing > block > lists. Secure Computing was polite and responsive in their > communications with me, and will establish the system discussed above in > reaction to my concerns. Web filtering of course remains a highly > controversial topic with many serious negative aspects, but we see that > when > it comes to dealing with the complex issues involved, it would be a > mistake > to assume that all such filters all created equal. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > Moderator, PRIVACY Forum > http://www.vortex.com > [...] > From shamrock at netcom.com Sun Dec 20 19:18:36 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:18:36 +0800 Subject: New PGP key for Lucky Green Message-ID: <000301be2c8d$06c77b60$3501a8c0@lucky.zks.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Folks, I am about to revoke my old DSS key ID 0xB663B0FD for administrative reasons. My new DSS key is attached. The new DSS key is signed with both my old DSS key and my ancient RSA key. If you signed my keys in the past, please sign the new one. Please discontinue use of my old DSS key. Thanks, - --Lucky Green -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 iQCVAwUBNn24CwSQkem38rwFAQE81AP/SA/AVTvMyWettjxaVOMvSdkSOzZITGPv bkZDp0posq014TrttVOUakHfLkYMe20bqMqkFLGwmzyfC6T33QYEnWXVZ7br/LCX YLg1+5ymS6ceCTgH8nfV+JIOGraxG7k818mF4NinR2xksfG8+p+yxoasSDVMwh0K wrt6/YCsYdQ= =ufA7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00000.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 4917 bytes Desc: "Lucky Green.asc" URL: From adam at homeport.org Sun Dec 20 19:18:44 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:18:44 +0800 Subject: NSA Org Chart In-Reply-To: <199812181558.KAA27257@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <19981220215426.A969@weathership.homeport.org> Interestingly, the export control liason is not on the chart. Perhaps this is a result of Whit pointing out in his book* that it was G2033, an intelligence group. One of its roles was to collect information to help other groups understand the technology they were looking at. *Privacy on the Line, with Susan Landau, 1998. If you haven't read it, do. I found it quite worthwhile and enjoyable. Most cypherpunks will already be familiar with most of whats there, but the footnotes and asides are wonderful, and its a good compendium and overview. Adam On Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 10:47:05AM -0500, John Young wrote: | Thanks to Defense Information and Electronics Report | we offer NSA's organizational chart, which was obtained | by DI&ER under the FOIA: | | http://jya.com/nsa-chart.htm -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 20 21:59:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:59:43 +0800 Subject: qXt8in0ocFjj3wHmDXe6PVJil1/NP0rd Message-ID: <199812210539.GAA32042@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: qXt8in0ocFjj3wHmDXe6PVJil1/NP0rd qANQR1DBw04DUdEuNfXoPEYQEAD1PcOfb7+lYm0KSomNq1L4BkKaywsMvlQ+yV8+ 5sFHJfmbnXdRuEpIzs2zCrhZXwusQAokhnXijaVNPLQOLU+vfyhQcFM2+xdd7UIr qc5MIYqWkZHJn/V9eGQn8rV65Q4gUMtDeXcHWswneAgeIgHn3e3ar1E4MidOXeom sKz/uVV/4NdyrKMfWAimDv1zJtWgCqon4CL1DmXgyBKM7vmITGORo1NEU9sr4Yc3 ZhjQG8bAORKiWwVqcPjpPK1cExaq847j0X5iUYkVJFY4NlCN6HIiHb+4U0jTnCuL lTK1ipl9QYHhIdDUgOmsiNW+HN9J7pVNuYCT1OTDrrLLAfEGsAavnycXPv3osu37 gCwofd6sReKp5jo5ZvLpJcIa9RuoTySsT5GX7cs5VVoXeHEH2OxcN/ZrmHDcQmWp DgflvRg9aw8dOZKrZVgbjiYTNiPXCEu128IiRgmM0ESCt5I/SIltu51knZ5MnZRm NKH/4nJ5PLUTESbTRM8I/RauOc25zn31F95yRcktaygygDuS0ERXq+6KnEHb5t/4 7MitmDwetj43TDnef59Yme8CChIay6JJhJ7wpeHTgE9CPsx2msf3EMhlafg51L5E BqWz7Uc3hVVdAmkph4W/TDUfnvL5nunhVq1p6Osf29yASxOKz6Ytk/DIgsS/kb7F HbRmuw/+PPS/Vmp/YwZ086rL4sptXiU8MTyL2LicR5AoDcgX4mYOFvqpfkTJ8Bo4 Gg0iNo3kijymqzERj5JMwFMUK6j3QBs6FXwWoBHlhpxBS3puYVlSPeD/rJo3lsNR tPwES6V9alRAlzpKjohshv94y4JCw8zm08HOZKBCxNfg+2IFh0UgwbEUVNWeNdY+ BRd0M5q3eHdLUAYoDfhrqYKMdpqpU5cpF8CPgb6/Ca1zpTlCN+rgH3ZVJFVYxZSZ Rw634l/Q7QHy0d+kYUmuML9tOLBJjWqj1bud/KuRHuzZAQlcuWdEMHa5dPPC1xIW 115xemKol0sE4yYSK1J42Ayhp+wq+Db0F0MiJj9OFJoFPQqJ5HHh95RUrTxNj7p7 k8P96q+WZv0yWnlLsUVPlzLS+Nlt37FYXNyaQEBygeScbGlpQohOUDlJeNBMSMdk RJqjs573NBZV7szBS4gq3HjCTivsqh/MyvZ74Ad0BdB2qW0VZQ3DwSFws98dfLiK bWcW7rgENX0oF3bhAVL+KNDsJEqcY3yo5ctfaXeQcz1RMzLEyqe82ZoEBkkzXU8r tdZSisxL2QsmtB8hpSKRyCYsQpVOV9GfOY6i9fOuTrRPo7JpziQD/doyIhg5gyGP N3GSVx3thca84J5XzbIlmla2YhZTQ6p3zOKxBHJaHzvIFr5IqwrBw04D/vN0agLj BM8QEADEiIb0JX+pck/SqcA+HQ6OalgXURGw0sk85uEO2iDRE2c9I2C3lRT7tKDF yku68b2212S+ODmwhd/nddYY23Jnxr+J74vAhrGDljmWbPial9bBdKxyQI2D6WMX 4+mfjrMRLNomy5Sx9Nb7OWYJ2BEz5oZCDSxal4xDZatRAy1SBUclSXmK39/fDKDM RtqSXbbsSb3qTXlwd/esHyeBzeSvwfA0IKwFYiwHZaPE6KFbm3XCwxN7EoiznQhv SMWEgSgCwXSj0J1XGr17dAZRMJDvoW4rP80hDtwU2KYrAv+5erBZXc/swAhZnmOG UGwWS+QU0LfpQ5Q7gI911OUm3PePagWpo+I42r0UZMLexaL+I2qM54I2FPyb6Mqq 6R10NcDyPCTfoJK2hp2nzA+DfEV4enYNTDxOSXvenG5/9oUQh3lKOmoKnDuDDiNn 6m50oPAdU9tbaGizYrQf/4wam3wSMGAzkr+kaaweVutWf9C8yyoqncWZDVbZMdWr EXf6KGyqTRHHV++/drbSJfUx0I+ORj3PwyDjO+xBy19CBMMJ+1H4ZYdGqMKRxrzg 3imdnO+75oCxm7tys58gcDFtvsnxyAXo9WsM5eQre/Bm4LYSX2s5u71wUUvYoVUd 2AAMdIlEBlFx0qu+SB8eWaEqtTtSteFEiZGsth1RGwCFqG55Cg/9FTlY2NU41DZ3 9HOhyiuKdSQcfHBIrJj9wg+h8aEBpuwJqUTcGmS5PaEcT9QQURxE7+4nhixz+LP3 g/B4HkZg1mjrcc6rFP9DZ7q+7LV/QQjnvDcKJcyimhYs1IZSbHwjytQ/eu6ni9WN 1M35CIt8YuozZJSrlW1JIUq34vJPpf86MdF9WRAemITEh+gESftjw23XvuY9Q7E9 J/MszmI8faByIEyzWHdGZ3hGWSRxX0UZPc1NjjZ4+5m6AIKPBrzGE4HYlF4ptRX5 PBTR78SOy7qM/uM/BTrNBd4v7uFyj0j3HucVi7dAC7cayTIHye/7V0Zwx83gtosY CN2MagRhYOrhhHW4qmY0Z525rjE4/X9fyLBcMg9/hmrN/9IVD4uUCU4A0ZYdXpwN pFRSiMZodpUHRnb8cC0ZMO2RAnc2dz7Z0yOUzIt1riUT07xcUlUcDUxq26mjuZr/ qx8qL+jvHdiInBbq1lDPVQ7FJgPrcTUHeZFs6IncU8nqDA8b+/IA/FseiV1tUd/W luQYs4wmR5Iy5YTQM1YEy9XJGqFTcB249tEGX+Sgl5dABuM6RNPYLlo3XVuSHUaw honWwmu/IqFizEEnM0Y2iZgxj4GGx24hbzGhNubk9YCvxAtVKPp1Qb/64kfxRuaW ffTAhzmlUGZ4np2RF0YNXfDx66J7pfrJwOO4FfeeAwMAhw4IOfTBfDcb6yHEg3Cl sfhoF5ATKrOFKCFSqanYFzL7i32u458i8gxfCkO05xtQNyYAWDAypMiBx6RyqwNY 5Za9W5sq9Rva90faW8bUhi4e/IbfwIqRUdzhmJoNoZKHZGHx46BUoZhfyyp8Da3+ RBXMkwzLe4CBi3HhQRokk+0VXl7AHnTnMssbNY3VBBYmkflO6Oenief7zi8V2CVR jIjvd3H/TZrAyFzbT9IAb37EKgqcxEtY8NbzXzMmdvSk0yVRWcxNzGvwquvjc2FM avs4yTGDXPSrL2luLKjxL2ykfwdEKR8dYG5bXNLEXJQ9nDfETmt1Jc1CtnqfP6MM fNecUtS0RDLsEAgO0F6kbpXNAQsLiXqbSSXIdVOUFtFoPc8C3L/MvgaXNOlz4tNg Y9tTlr9xE+nbPXNdDoa8sx0wD7uXasuTTGlspe478LgPUcmZKeabKHGc16UJH5vo HvGDZtxqjVIXu6xe4kQvIAv1Xdfv9BJAUrbDb+eu5DSIPJlxtDDZViyDcnw9FrfX TV9Ai5z2v6tLs9frNg== =t4nq -----END PGP MESSAGE----- From www.hk.super.net/ Mon Dec 21 14:02:41 1998 From: www.hk.super.net/ (www.hk.super.net/) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:02:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: the greatest date line in america!! Message-ID: <23-ki02154re-98 (199.171.57.2)> FELLING LONELY TONIGHT? Are you looking for love,marriage or just someone to have fun? Men and woman who could share your own interest are waiting to hear from you! match yourself with the right person! thousands of single peoples wants to hear you! and you can talk with people of your area! don't feel lonely anymore! just call the greatest date line in america! 10 minutes free of charge when you call! call now! 1-900-745-8278 1-800-939-8355 (credit card) only $2.99 per minute,no minimum. must be 18+ to call. From nobody at seclab.com Sun Dec 20 22:04:45 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:04:45 +0800 Subject: SURVEY SHOWS COUNTIES ARE BEHIND ON Y2K FIX Message-ID: <199812210540.GAA29458@rogue.seclab.com> A survey by the National Association of Counties shows that one-third of the nation's counties aren't even aware of the Y2K problem -- and about 75% of the 119 counties with populations below 10,000 haven't developed a plan for updating their computer systems to deal with the millennial data change. Total Y2K spending among counties is expected to reach $1.7 billion, according to the association. (Information Week 14 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From zooko at wildgoose.tandu.com Sun Dec 20 23:14:41 1998 From: zooko at wildgoose.tandu.com (Zooko) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:14:41 +0800 Subject: repost(?): Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet (was: Re: keyword scanning and countering writing style analysis) Message-ID: Cypherpunks: I tried to send this message to the cypherpunks in April 1998. I suspect that this, and many other messages that i sent, never reached the cypherpunks list. If any of you remember reading this, or have a copy of it in your archives, please let me know. Regards, Zooko ------- Forwarded Message Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:06:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Zooko Journeyman To: zooko at xs4all.nl Newsgroups: list.cypherpunks Subject: Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet (was: Re: keyword scanning and countering writing style analysis) References: <199803252037.UAA06168 at server.eternity.org> Adam: I think that the state of the art on this is probably close to the boundaries of the science of machine learning. I recently saw a presentation by a researcher from Bell Labs. His machine learning system, which is being patented, had success rates better than competing systems (including better than a hand-scripted system!) at identifying into which categories a phone call or letter to AT&T fell: "Billing", "Subscription", "Complaint", "Delay", "Installation", etc. Presumably the NSA has similar systems with all of our favorite keywords. (Toto: insert funny jokes here.) Anyway, if _i_ were forced to bet on it, i would say that such systems are not yet good enough to reduce the cost of matching nyms to "insignificant", but that such systems probably _will_ be that good before too long (and our old articles will still be useful as data then...). Now the question about counter-measures, i don't know. (There is a trade-off between safety and expressiveness here. We could all buy a copy of AltaVista's translator software and language databases, and then run our missives through a couple of pidgin foreign languages before posting them. [Toto: insert funny joke about JYA here.]) I think this issue is growing in importance. I currently use a very weak nym, which anyone with a little skill should be able to crack [Toto: bonus points if you _privately_ send e-mail to one of my eunymous accounts]. I'm starting to think that this is the worst of both worlds, as potentially malicious sorts are not significantly slowed down, while potentially beneficient people are kept a bit more distant from me and are thus less likely to be of use to me. (e.g., people who know me as Zooko wouldn't notice if "Anna Rosenbaum" (my real name) were to disappear one night, and vice versa.) By the way, the reason for my failure should be instructive: my nym is so crackable not because of any technical detail having to do with remailers or encryption-- it is that i foolishly posted articles containing both nyms in the distant past, and those articles are now a permanent part of the The Net instead of decaying and disappearing like articles from even earlier years did. Another issue for me is the onerous cost of starting a fresh nym. The benefits (true pseudonymity) are uncertain (the bad guys' techniques might crack my best effort using current technology (especially because of textual analysis as per the original topic of this message)), and the costs are that i lose the advantages of concentration of reputation into a single nym. (I've already observed this, a little, with my current set of weak nyms. Adding a strong one would only exaccerbate my woes.) A final problem i have with true pseudonymity is that i _like_ meeting people in Real Life, and not only to fight or fuck them. Okay, this has been long and rambling, but i hope useful to some of you. One more point before i go: There are two ideas of pseudonymity that i have considered. In one, you are truly the only person who knows that the nym maps to your body. This has obvious advantages, and obvious disadvantages. In the other (which is basically what "Zooko" is and was intended to be), there is a large, ill-defined group of people who also know of the mapping. This has its advantages too-- social advantages (which are very important!), but the disadvantage is that it is trivially cracked by a mole. [In fact, i think i recall that about the time "Zooko" appeared on the scene one "Adam Back" sent me e-mail saying, "Hey-- you write a lot like Anna Rosenbaum did... Are you her?".] [So if anyone wants to do me a favor, look about in your archives and dissociate "Zooko" with "Anna". Thanks! It might actually do me some good in the long run, although not, of course, against the likes of the NSA. Perhaps against others.] Regards, Zooko P.S. For an Nth reason that i don't have a strong pseudonym, i never bothered to learn how to use a remailer front-end. Now with Xemacs 20 and Mozilla out, i could probably handle it... P.P.S. Today i found the 3rd person, including myself, who has used the name "Zooko" on the net. .----, | mailto:zooko at xs4all.nl . / | http://www.xs4all.nl/~zooko/public.html . / | "Any technology which is distinguishable +____. | from magic is insufficiently advanced." ------- End of Forwarded Message From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 01:29:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:29:43 +0800 Subject: I76wQeB9zDPUp2NfsZqfInyfQ1A4ojlu Message-ID: <199812210854.JAA11012@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: I76wQeB9zDPUp2NfsZqfInyfQ1A4ojlu qANQR1DBw04DqBWstt3od4kQEADSNbitGXgmnIRHKrxxopORx/43C8dmUcH50uTJ f/CnZ4SLqVi6tu8qqFG3dFnrlsMUHvoNEIzu+yJrAbexuEtCfY5D+YOVioEPMBZw zrUin/A6wjz1TBJ1HOOX58+5WMXswFOcJccbUAj63qnTP9OWLpSUdE+xNBbMykHy qvOwxMmMmVbttv5pYEoKf2WbqxpL0/U3lRGfbuKsy5k8EHPhoiMcoaL0dMUh3PYn ewOBTdDr4+s0PcqQe4JV34H49jzB6pht8X+UEJSi9Yw4Xdx4sWl/cIf+n8hI/FxO sSFd1r+ym5zJbF4HYUKygFRvU5/kfVaDTUR6A+ATu3CnncmQmP2G5UJ4T2SGHUKg hY+mJG5WosK4vu/c8rv9J1FjbsLc1eChWYOlPetF0d5JgD/cvjcmvAbB2W32ZcLk xilFNUrHWHW+7qio1CC2+dNPjRC+tZ81gCRP0x9QqQlzWbLbGDW0iAh0WF73qqI5 Q8oVCzDWT6rL44X4HKtIYnFQUWAhlpe1TG8T+izkjb/9vMGB0VJvLrq7iZBtlsdo AhaU0KQzH6rWTQI0sawL6H9tM85OaJt5dIDiaD6RcXxyGcp+A5a0GsBVqf90hxrZ WYe7Op0DpyHZ/wda+LfvnKpt/8Dbg8nQLSLMH5veT7yPwq5ztB2/8xwWubYXr3KS fKIBSRAAs0xY89bSzGWHnfBpK0MhLULpERQuRkXLyOmQZYc7ufKuu3VzAtqwutEe k+w7yiqpl1xjLR67MiesTvbcrtDlMpHSQHUCemRgo7zObovXu32MJTwiZAcZtBcM q38TEl5C6TfA9+ZYP/fo7Z8i4uMMcv5VGj7MrlEnijFiCKqc2lC1gTQkkfJ64aTe ENRCl1adCb1FOPF84aXxTB4SDKPpx4PcC0f+HIIXbxmiCUBRy3LSyqGwgfRDM2b7 digR+46xkLaKLhTsAyNM47bknwC376bu2M+s35XM+g4F4kKrTJBpqGYI4dRXNdlk kMcn6x0JLW4/bhAqjYWTZMkyozymihapbss0pf47qg9Fn3riXUckgVPuzli7+uQ7 L6WPPaHS3iJS3a9UjvDcL8CoQgIb4IF43WSgaITotCASItYYNrPELgWnau6AyN3A nSOUTty0u1n1RHfrem9UzNgfdPnTo7+R7woFn/nunimbXCYV/GG6QvnN7ZTNiJyW DPgTn4ymElzde+jIrwY73kviHdEb4wt4vozTCnYtACiDUKk84N62sbrbX5MQH44K lzNTsyYW10gAsAGSjSjeI8/NUJyWU9VvVPuurbYoIm4dKEomnTl8nRBKB6tmVB8K LqWJdxOHi10nRPfQa/Us+mGZAQx4QsrUWqjRRjkWEbv1gCA3AJXJwRjyT7nlUNqi WebMc9Fstlcj94Y/y4SA7pDoOr3WxUtKQ/oXUVuUStxXsmnfJL+Wv9E7yFgloTO/ jM/Zj6okXavZuYwxAvl1yX9ND1SvPN67ktnL2JqhZQKo1WKUkTo+VpVHlFb0uBU7 CN9nF4dSwhG4IdOxcj5+LSSoSIJtHxX2OQ//DFfutIFra0ZsJBMgXt418B8RbzfR 8KdxFALNhCJyFpTTQXfx0X2mIBK8Sf8o2aezhHYxme+iemk5wvxLQEuR31KaOJHN Kt2uhFRa3j1YOYFrGC6PiHXgWjFWHe687G6AxJUHkoi+r7w7nVnuyyq3XQjaw7Ho cjWEX2FKH2hgylvRKYz54K3GFKzIKFWLkNdknI/ckJTRrXNQfAnd3XLfxmQbsfN7 Q2PRJyAczRLBpwNZJXs5xwam3hFfParBbdb/Bk1BzcXQ6JCN0jr7N8VG+hZeNdGm TS2V62R3CIjalkO0YjxDA6jgcsri3TPcfjTJfka/FD+txcu/f38xwjFxxa2UziOD tyTdzPpGmrmyKEitnpKh0Gi4mlbT7ft3R04e3M4X1cPluEugfIkZI9ZU7K2w7Fze ryLDCTL17Xyr3SyVisTiHORbZyc9vAbADZKKwH2M+xE+ =0GGL -----END PGP MESSAGE----- From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Mon Dec 21 03:14:01 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:14:01 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail.... Message-ID: <802566E1.0039858A.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> Comrades, comrades, please. What makes "The Revolution" so powerful is the way it transends such petty consideration as "National Boundaries". When our day comes there will be no treachery as there will be no "THEM" to be treasonous to. We will be in total control. There will be complete freedom of speech as long as it doesn't cover topics not suitable for public discorse (these will be desided as we need to). Anyone can use encryption, as strong as they like. Of course the only computers will be centrally controlled and plain text backups will be maintained for your peace of mind. We will do all that tedious backing up for you. Anyone can own and carry any firearm. Ammunition will naturally be rationed. We don't want the wealthy, bourgious to gain an advantage over the brothers and sisters in the masses. Be patient comrades, our day will come. Missouri FreeNet Administration on 19/12/98 05:41:51 To: cypherpunks at toad.com cc: (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE) Subject: Forwarded mail.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- ::Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:21:34 +0100 ::From: Anonymous ::To: sysadmin at mfn.org ::You should be expecting a visit from the boys in the suits very soon. ::Have fun. I hope your cellmate is a big guy they call "The Bull." ::Traitorous scum. ---------- Message Ends ---------- What I *really* love about these "patriots" is how they are not _afraid_ to stand by their words! Awwww, c'mon! You're on the "Side Of Right(tm)", so why hide? You afraid I'm gonna piss on your white picket fence? Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Dec 21 03:19:29 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:19:29 +0800 Subject: repost(?): Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet (was: Re: keyword scanning and countering writing style analysis) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812211059.KAA07212@server.eternity.org> Anna Rosenbaum^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Zooko wrote: > If any of you remember reading this, or have a copy of it in > your archives, please let me know. A grep of my old cpunks traffic for 'Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet' comes up empty, so apparenlty it did not get through. > [In fact, i think i recall that about the time "Zooko" appeared > on the scene one "Adam Back" sent me e-mail saying, "Hey-- you > write a lot like Anna Rosenbaum did... Are you her?".] Yep, I recall doing this, except I did not say 'Anna Rosenbaum' but rather your real first name, which I will of course not mention. I recall Tim doing the same (tho' using your initial, and on list), also, perhaps to Zooko or perhaps to a anonymous post with writing style and rant topic similarities. Multiple personality nyms seem to provide some plausible deniability and doubt, for example people like Monty Cantsin (who's web page claimed Cantsin was any number of people) and Toto, TruthMonger etc. whose messages signed by shared keys, or were unsigned. I reckon there is some room for doubt as to which meat space personas wrote some of the Toto missives for example. Probably a good rule of thumb is never to sign anything and always post via a mixmaster chain. Some messages don't need a persistent nym even. Perhaps one could construct a zero knowledge proof of nym reputation rating without identityfing the nym which might be useful for filtering without linkability. Adam From apf2 at apf2.com Mon Dec 21 03:21:42 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:21:42 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981221115055.006d2b60@209.204.247.83> >From: Eric Cordian > >Now we have the latest incarnation of adjusting sheeple motivational >inperatives, Anthrax Theatre. Genuine Anthrax not required, of >course. Yes children, see what happens because of Saddam Hussein? >There'll be a test later, to see if further attitudinal adjustment is >required. > And if that doesn't work we all know that the MIB wouldn't hesitate to unleash a real "small scale" release just to prove that the threat really exists! APF From fjd8 at giulietta.logikos.it Mon Dec 21 20:47:53 1998 From: fjd8 at giulietta.logikos.it (fjd8 at giulietta.logikos.it) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:47:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: hi Message-ID: <199812220440.FAA01696@giulietta.logikos.it> Do you know what the number one fact is, that will determine whether your business is a success or not? ADVERTISING! Effective conventional advertising is quite expensive. So what do you do? Direct email is one of, if not thee most effective method of advertising in the 90's. You can get your ad out to hundreds of thousands, even millions, for only a fraction of the cost of traditional advertising. The wave of future advertising is here, don't miss it We will send your advert for you. We have gone through painstaking methods to insure that we have the cleanest and most up to date mailing list on the Internet. All you have to do is write your ad, we do the rest. 250,000 addresses - $265 (Holiday Special - $199) 350,000 addresses - $315 (Holiday Special - $250) 500,000 addresses - $450 (Holiday Special - $350) 1 million addresses - $800 (Holiday Special - $700) 3 million addresses - $1800 (Holiday Special -$1200) Holiday specials end on December 31st and normal pricing will resume. Specials are based on when you make payment not when your ad is sent. Ad can be sent at anytime as long as payment is made by December 31st, 1998. For more information or to place an ad call IMC Marketing at (909) 627-3557 From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 05:48:12 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:48:12 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812211306.OAA24742@replay.com> ACLU: Bombing in Iraq Violates Constitution and War Powers Act FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, December 17, 1998 WASHINGTON -- The American Civil Liberties Union said today that the bombing of Iraq ordered by President Clinton violates the Constitution and the War Powers Act because it was not authorized by Congress. Congress adopted the War Powers Act in 1973 to ensure that U.S. troops are not sent into hostilities without Congressional authorization, except in cases where a national emergency is created by attack upon the United States. "Launching a massive, sustained military assault is an action that no one person in our democracy -- including the President -- can authorize," said ACLU Legislative Counsel Gregory T. Nojeim, adding that the ACLU takes no position on the use in force in Iraq. "It is a power that the framers contemplated would be shared by Congress and the President," Nojeim added, noting that Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution grants to Congress "the power to declare war [and] grant letters of marque and reprisal." Under the Constitution, Congress is given the ultimate decision as to whether to use force; the President's power is limited to decisions on how to use the military after Congress has authorized the President to act. Section 2(c) of the War Powers Act states that the President has constitutional authority to "introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, ... only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by an attack upon the United States. ..." "A debate and vote on the use of force is especially important here, since many members of Congress have publicly expressed reservations about the timing of the attack, and Congressional resolutions have been introduced about the use of force in Iraq," Nojeim said. One of those resolutions expressed the sense of Congress that the United States should not take military action against Iraq unless that action was first authorized by Congress. That resolution, H. Con. Res. 226, was introduced in February 1998, gathered 108 co-sponsors, but was never voted on by the full House. The ACLU said that the resolution that was adopted by the House today, H. Res. 612, does not meet the requirements of the War Powers Act, and that the Iraq Liberation Act, which was adopted by Congress and signed by the President in October, did not authorize the use of U.S. forces in Iraq. "A debate would help ensure that all viewpoints on this important issue are considered," Nojeim said, "and a vote ensures that such an important decision has been endorsed by the people through their representatives in Congress." From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 06:05:00 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:05:00 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812211329.OAA25839@replay.com> The Ministry of Information announces the following: In order to ensure domestic tranquility and the maximum protection of human rights by reducing crimes against humanity, be it enacted that - There shall be no whispering in public; you should have nothing to hide unless you are a criminal - You may not walk or gather in groups of two or more; such gathering is an indication that you may be conspiring to commit some illegal act - You may not have locks on your house; you should have nothing that you are keeping from the collective - You are not to draw the blinds or curtains in your house; law-abiding citizens have nothing to hide - All future voting will be by voice vote before the General Assembly; you will also proclaim your support for the Party before casting your vote - You will not think. Free thought is for those that conspire against the righteous government - You will not associate with the Cypherpunks; they are enemies of those that would oppress you From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 21 07:46:41 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:46:41 +0800 Subject: New PGP key for Lucky Green In-Reply-To: <000301be2c8d$06c77b60$3501a8c0@lucky.zks.net> Message-ID: At 9:53 PM -0500 on 12/20/98, Lucky Green wrote: > Please > discontinue use of my old DSS key. Why didn't you just send out a revocation along with your key, then? Cheers, RAH ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From d-starr at usa.net Mon Dec 21 07:50:09 1998 From: d-starr at usa.net (D.STARR) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:50:09 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981221145103.28186.qmail@www0t.netaddress.usa.net> sounds to me like they want to create chaos where none exists or is likely to exist! "Defence officials called for "aggressive and preventive actions" now to reduce the Year 2000 risk to a more manageable level. The military will have about 32,000 of its personnel dedicated to Operation Abacus, with thousands more available if needed." darkstarr cypherpunks-errors at toad.com wrote: > LOCAL > Saturday 12 December 1998 > > 'Martial law' rushed for Y2K chaos Report warns government to be ready to > invoke federal Emergencies Act > > By David Pugliese The Ottawa Citizen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 "The human animal needs a freedom seldom mentioned; freedom from intrusion. He needs a little privacy." --Phyllis McGinley -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNXlDlmzbxbzh8ktOEQIS9wCfX0vXT5Txyn7LTiiTHSbEw+fBOycAnA6C fc2bGY8gGslVN/Kn4M7rPx13 =BKC6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From howree at cable.navy.mil Mon Dec 21 07:52:07 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:52:07 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4359 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 09:53:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:53:03 +0800 Subject: bugs and gas Message-ID: <199812211711.SAA10468@replay.com> >>>This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly >>>nonexistent. This is basically an advertizement for anthrax: http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/Anthrax/anth.htm#medically An index of CBW sites: http://www.cbiac.apgea.army.mil/ Chemical defense: http://chemdef.apgea.army.mil/fm8-9/part_iii/index.htm From jim_finder at hotmail.com Mon Dec 21 09:53:19 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:53:19 +0800 Subject: Good archive of AES algorithms? Message-ID: <199812211722.JAA04165@law-f54.hotmail.com> Is there a good archive of all the algorithms submitted for AES? I'd be interested especially in one that also had info on what's been broken so far, plus implementations and performance numbers. I can't find all this info on any one site, but I can't believe that one doesn't exist. Thanks! Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 10:20:15 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:20:15 +0800 Subject: export controlled fermenters Message-ID: <199812211728.SAA12954@replay.com> http://www.acda.gov/factshee/wmd/bw/auslist.htm LIST OF DUAL-USE BIOLOGICAL EQUIPMENT FOR EXPORT CONTROL 1. Complete containment facilities at P3, P4 containment level Complete containment facilities that meet the criteria for P3 or P4 (BL3, BL4, L3, L4) containment as specified in the WHO Laboratory Biosafety manual (Geneva, 1983) are subject to export control. 2. Fermenters* Fermenters capable of cultivation of pathogenic micro-organisms, viruses or for toxin production, without the propagation of aerosols, and having all the following characteristics: (a) capacity equal to or greater than 100 litres; *Sub-groups of fermenters include bioreactors, chemostats and continuous-flow systems. 3. Centrifugal Separators* Centrifugal separators capable of the contiuous separation of pathogenic micro-organisms, without the propagation of aerosols, and having all the following characteristics: (a) flow rate greater than 100 litres per hour; (b) components of polished stainless steel or titanium; (c) double or multiple sealing joints within the steam containment area; (d) capable of in-situ steam sterilization in a closed state. *Centrifugal separators include decanters. 4. Cross-flow Filtration Equipment Cross-flow filtration equipment capable of continuous separation of pathogenic microorganisms, viruses, toxins and cell cultures without the propagation of aerosols, having all the following characteristics: (a) equal to or greater than 5 square metres; (b) capable of in-situ sterilization. 5. Freeze-drying Equipment Steam sterilizable freeze-drying equipment with a condensor capacity greater than 50 kgs of ice in 24 hours and less than 1000 kgs of ice in 24 hours. 6. Equipment that incorporates or is contained in P3 or P4 (BL3, BL4, L3, L4) containment housing, as follows: (a) Independently ventilated protective full or half suits; (b) Class III biological safety cabinets or isolators with similar performance standards. 7. Aerosol inhalation chambers Chambers designed for aerosol challenge testing with microorganisms, viruses or toxins and having a capacity of 1 cubic metre or greater. The experts propose that the following item be included in awareness raising guidelines to industry: 1. Equipment for the micro-encapsulation of live micro-organisms and toxins in the range of 1-10 um particle size, specifically: (a) Interfacial polycondensors; (b) Phase separators. 2. Fermenters of less than 100 litre capacity with special emphasis on aggregate orders or designs for use in combined systems. 3. Conventional or turbulent air-flow clean-air rooms and self-contained fan-HEPA filter units that may be used for P3 or P4 (BL3, BL4, L3, L4) containment facilities. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- AUSTRALIA GROUP LIST OF BIOLOGICAL AGENTS FOR EXPORT CONTROL CORE LIST1 Viruses V1. Chikungunya virus V2. Congo-Crimean haemorrhagic fever virus V3. Dengue fever virus V4. Eastern equine encephalitis virus V5. Ebola virus V6. Hantaan virus V7. Junin virus V8. Lassa fever virus V9. Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus V10. Machupo virus V11. Marburg virus V12. Monkey pox virus V13. Rift Valley fever virus V14. Tick-borne encephalitis virus (Russian Spring-Summer encephalitis virus) V15. Variola virus V16. Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus V17. Western equine encephalitis virus V18. White pox V19. Yellow fever virus V20. Japanese encephalitis virus Rickettsiae R1. Coxiella burnetii R2. Bartonella Quintana (Rochalimea quintana, Rickettsia quintana) R3. Rickettsia prowasecki R4. Rickettsia rickettsii Bacteria B1. Bacillus anthracis B2. Brucella abortus B3. Brucella melitensis B4. Brucella suis B5. Chlamydia psittaci B6. Clostridium Botulinum B7. Francisella tularensis B8. Burkholderia mallei (pseudomonas mallei) B9. Burkholderia pseudomallei (pseudomonas pseudomallei) B10. Salmonella typhi B11. Shigella dysenteriae B12. Vibrio cholerae B13. Yersinia pestis Genetically Modified Micro-organisms G1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from organisms in the core list. G2. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences coding for any of the toxins in the core list, or their subunits. Toxins as follow and subunits thereof:2 T1. Botulinum toxins T2. Clostridium perfringens toxins T3. Conotoxin T4. Ricin T5. Saxitoxin T6. Shiga toxin T7. Staphylococcus aureaus toxins T8. Tetrodotoxin T9. Verotoxin T10. Microcystin (Cyanginosin) T11. Alflatoxins __________________ 1. Except where the agent is in the form of a vaccine. 2. Excluding immunotoxins. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- WARNING LIST1 Viruses WV1. Kyasanur Forest virus WV2. Louping ill virus WV3. Murray Valley encephalitis virus WV4. Omsk haemorrhagic fever virus WV5. Oropouche virus WV6. Powassan virus WV7. Rocio virus WV8. St. Louis encephalitis virus Bacteria WB1. Clostridium perfringens* WB2. Clostridium tetani* WB3. Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli, serotype 0157 and other verotoxin producing serotypes WB4. Legionella pneumophila WB5. Yersinia pseudotuberculosis Genetically Modified Micro-organisms WG1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from organisms in the warning list. WG2. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences coding for any of the toxins in the warning list, or their subunits. Toxins as follow and subunits thereof:2 WT1. Abrin WT2. Cholera toxin WT3. Tetanus toxin WT4. Trichothecene mycotoxins WT5. Modeccin WT6. Volkensin WT7. Viscum Album Lectin 1 (Viscumin) __________________ *The Australia Group recognizes that these organisms are ubiquitous, but, as they have been acquired in the past as part of biological weapons programs, they are worthy of special caution. 1. Except where the agent is in the form of a vaccine. 2. Excluding immunotoxins. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- AUSTRALIA GROUP LIST OF ANIMAL PATHOGENS FOR EXPORT CONTROL1 Viruses AV1. African swine fever virus AV2. Avian influenza virus2 AV3. Bluetongue virus AV4. Foot and mouth disease virus AV5. Goat pox virus AV6. Herpes virus (Aujeszky's disease) AV7. Hog cholera virus (synonym: Swine fever virus) AV8. Lyssa virus AV9. Newcastle disease virus AV10. Peste des petits ruminants virus AV11. Porcine enterovirus type 9 (synonym: swine vesicular disease virus) AV12. Rinderpest virus AV13. Sheep pox virus AV14. Teschen disease virus AV15. Vesicular stomatitis virus _____________________ 1. Except where the agent is in the form of a vaccine. 2. This includes only those Avian influenza viruses of high pathogenicity as defined in EC Directive 92/401EC: "Type A viruses with an IVPI (intravenous pathogenicity index) in 6 week old chickens of greater than 1.2, or Type A viruses HS or H7 subtype for which nucleotide sequencing has demonstrated multiple basic amino acids at the cleavage site of haemegglutinin." Bacteria AB3. Mycoplasma mycoides Genetically-modified Micro-organisms AG1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from organisms in the list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- AUSTRALIA GROUP CONTROL LIST OF PLANT PATHOGENS FOR EXPORT CONTROL CORE LIST Baceria PB1. Xanthomonas albilineans PB2. Xanthomonas campestris pv. citri Fungi PF1. Colletotrichum coffeanum var. virulans (Colletotrichum Kanawae) PF2. Cochliobolus miyabeanus (Helminthosporium oryzae) PF3. Microcyclus ulei (syn. Dothidella ulei) PF4. Puccinia graminis (syn. Puccinia graminis f. sp. tritici) PF5. Puccinia striiformis (syn. Pucciniaglumarum) PF6. Pyricularia grisea/Pyricularia oryzae Genetically-modified Micro-organisms PG1. Genetically-modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity derived from the plant pathogens identified on the export control list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ITEMS FOR INCLUSION IN AWARENESS RAISING GUIDELINES Bacteria PWB1. Xanthomonas campestris pv. oryzae PWB2. Xylella fastidiosa Fungi PWF1. Deuterophoma tracheiphila (syn. Phoma tracheiphila) PWF2. Monilia rorei (syn. Moniliophthora rorei) Viruses PWV1 Banana bunchy top virus Genetically-modified Micro-organisms PWG1 Genetically-modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity derived from the plant pathogens identified on the awareness raising list. From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Mon Dec 21 10:24:23 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:24:23 +0800 Subject: Message-ID: <802566E1.005F6E44.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> In addition: You shall inform your local party representative (lpr) of all journeys to be made and the purpose thereof. Only the guilty will wish to conceal their movements. You shall also inform your lpr on any deviation from the registered journey. The innocent have nothing to hide. You shall share all personal information about yourself including bank access codes and all passwords. You do trust The Party don't you? Failure to comply with any regulation shall incure a with-holding of all bodily functions order. Compliance is entirely volentary. Assistance with complience can be found in you local Yellow Pages or other business directory under Surgery, lobotomy or Political Party, Membership. Long life to the Party, slow and painful death to all who oppose us. Resistance is useless. You want a secure and happy life don't you? Anonymous on 21/12/98 13:29:50 To: cypherpunks at toad.com cc: (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE) Subject: The Ministry of Information announces the following: In order to ensure domestic tranquility and the maximum protection of human rights by reducing crimes against humanity, be it enacted that - There shall be no whispering in public; you should have nothing to hide unless you are a criminal - You may not walk or gather in groups of two or more; such gathering is an indication that you may be conspiring to commit some illegal act - You may not have locks on your house; you should have nothing that you are keeping from the collective - You are not to draw the blinds or curtains in your house; law-abiding citizens have nothing to hide - All future voting will be by voice vote before the General Assembly; you will also proclaim your support for the Party before casting your vote - You will not think. Free thought is for those that conspire against the righteous government - You will not associate with the Cypherpunks; they are enemies of those that would oppress you From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 21 10:54:30 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:54:30 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... Message-ID: Wherein David Friedman teaches cryptoanarchy 101 to the folks at the Cato Institute. A RealAudio transcription from the Cato/Forbes ASAP conference on cryptography held earlier this year. Listen to this. It's important. Even if you know what he's gonna say already, it's a very good thing to have heard so you can point newbies to it. Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text To: rah at shipwright.com Subject: up your alley Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:11:39 -0500 From: Somebody Have you listened to http://www.novell.com/webcast/98/cato/crypto.ram ??? --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 21 11:11:58 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:11:58 +0800 Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week - Rule of Law Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:17:05 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week - Rule of Law To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU Hayek Quote of the Week "It is often not recognized that general and equal laws provide the most effective protection against infringement of individual liberty, this is due mainly to the habit of tacitly exempting the state and its agents from them and of assuming that the government has the power to grant exemptions to individuals. The ideal of the rule of law requires that the state either enforce the law upon others -- and that this be its only monopoly -- or act under the same law and therefore be limited in the same manner as the private person. It is this fact that all rules apply equally to all, including those who govern, which makes it improbable that any oppressive rules will be adopted. It would be humanly impossible to separate effectively the laying-down of new general rules and their application to particular cases unless these functions were performed by different persons or bodies. This part of the doctrine of the separation of powers23 [fn23. See W. S. Holdsworth's review of the 9th edition of A. V. Dicey, _Constitution_, in the _Law Quarterly Review_, Vol. LV (1939), which contains one of the latest authoritative statements in England of the tradition conception of the rule of law. It deserves quotation at length, but we will reproduce only one paragraph here: 'The rule of law is as valuable a principle today as it has ever been. For it means that the Courts can see to it that the powers of officials, and official bodies of persons entrusted with government, are not exceeded and are not abused, and the rights of citizens are determined in accordance with the law enacted and unenacted. Insofar as the jurisdiction of the Courts is ousted, and officials or official bodies of persons are given a purely administrative discrection, the rule of law is abrogated. It is not abrogated if these officials or official bodies are given a judicial or quasi-judicial discretion, although the machinery through which the rule is applied is not that of the Courts.'] must therefore be regarded as an intergral part of the rule of law. Rules must not be made with particular cases in mind, nor must particular cases be decided in light of anything but the general rule -- though this rule may not yet have been explicityly formulated and therefore have to be discovered. This requires independent judges who are not concerned with the temporary ends of government ,,, " Friedrich Hayek, _The Constitution of Liberty_, Chicago: U. of Chicago. 1960. pp. 21-211. Hayek Quote of the Week is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From measl at mfn.org Mon Dec 21 11:20:14 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:20:14 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote: :At 10:03 PM 12/17/98 +0200, Jukka E Isosaari wrote: :>Everyone is touting how he [saddam hussein, (Reeza!)] is behind every :nasty thing that the :>Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison him. Don't take :>it out on all the Iraqis. : :Make a martyr of him, in other words? Is it better that we make martyrs of the entire population? We are busy starving the country out of existence right now, and he is the Head of State: that means he understands the Rules Of The Game (all heads of state shall serve at the pleasure of the USG, and shall be subject to elevation or executuion at any time, and for no reason other than some USG whim). Taking a more formal position, i.e., The Good Of The Many, I agree the USG should just go ahead and execute him, rather than make a policy of deliberately toruring an entire country. Even the Good Of The Few arguments go in favor of this "option". Of course, the better option would be that we mind our own business for a change, but we all now how well *that* would go over... :>Now, how's that for an alternative? : :Perfectly acceptable to me personally. Please show how it will result in :proving that Iraq does not, and will not in the near or forseeable future :possess weapons of mass destruction that may be utilized against :neighbors, foreign or domestic. *WHY* is it any of our business whether he owns weapons of *any* kind? WE own them, and we USE them: Does this give other nations the right to embargo us, and to bomb us into oblivion if we refuse to allow THEM to tell US what to do? Our concern for his weaponry should only be an issue *IF* he uses them, as with *OUR* weaponry. Yours is the classical anti-gun argument, and it's no more effective at the international level than at the state level. : Or how it will result in turning the :public opinion, iraqi and/or american, touted by the biased US press in :such a fashion that it would result in a munificent display of openness, :agreeablility, and welcoming to the UN inspectors by the iraqi hosts. Who in the hell is the UN to force their "inspectors" on a sovereign State? Again, would you allow this in your home, by the USG? It's the same thing. : Or :show how Hussein is now trustworthy, and thereby qualified by the MIB :office of the USG to possess said weapons. The USG has no right to "qualify" any foreign nation state for the posession of weapons - this is a right of all persons and states. :Reeza! :DH Key available on request Note that your DH Key is a "munition"... Shouldn't you be "qualified" to have it by the USG - strictly for the safety of the world, of course... Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 21 11:43:00 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:43:00 +0800 Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week - Rule of Law In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:22 PM -0500 on 12/21/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: > "It is often not recognized that general and equal laws > provide the most effective protection against infringement > of individual liberty, this is due mainly to the habit of > tacitly exempting the state and its agents from them and > of assuming that the government has the power to > grant exemptions to individuals. Woops. Corrected version: "IF it is often not recognized that general and equal law provide the most effective protection against infringement of individual liberty, this is due mainly to the habit of tacitly exempting the state and its agents from them and of assuming that the government has the power to grant exemptions to individuals." etc... Cheers, RAH ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From declan at well.com Mon Dec 21 11:47:16 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:47:16 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812211904.LAA17808@smtp.well.com> I see Bob is incorrectly assuming that the folks at the Cato Institute knew nothing about cryptoanarchy before David's speech this fall... (The audience may be a different story, though.) -Declan At 01:14 PM 12-21-98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Wherein David Friedman teaches cryptoanarchy 101 to the folks at the Cato >Institute. > >A RealAudio transcription from the Cato/Forbes ASAP conference on >cryptography held earlier this year. From tcmay at got.net Mon Dec 21 13:02:03 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:02:03 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:06 AM -0800 12/21/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >I see Bob is incorrectly assuming that the folks at the Cato Institute knew >nothing about cryptoanarchy before David's speech this fall... > >(The audience may be a different story, though.) > Interesting that David Friedman kept using language like: "Some of my ideas...." "I have developed this set of ideas..." And yet this constellation of ideas, except for his discourse on digital watermarking of intellectual property, is what I laid out beginning in 1988, and in thousands of essays here on this list. And in other fora. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 21 13:26:23 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:26:23 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 2:06 PM -0500 on 12/21/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I see Bob is incorrectly assuming that the folks at the Cato Institute knew > nothing about cryptoanarchy before David's speech this fall... I see Declan is correctly picking nits about my use of the word "the". :-). Your definition of "is" may vary, of course. Must be the water in DC, or something. ;-). The actual content of Freidman's speech aside (apparently), I stand upbraided, your honor, as I'm sure *you* told the Catons all about CryptoA way before they *ever* heard of Friedman. ;-). (Yes, I know, Declan, you *know* Freidman, he was a good friend of yours, and so forth and so on...) > (The audience may be a different story, though.) - From the questions, which were the standard clueless ones one gets from the "policy" establishment on cryptoanarchy and anarchocapitalism, and, frankly, cryptography in general, it sounded to me like they were receiving a first hearing of Dr. Friedman, the putative (philosophical) godfather of all cypherpunkery. An attack on flatland from the sky, and all that. One way or another, the proof is in the .ra viewing, for anyone who wants to go look for themselves. Which segues me, in an attempt to ad value to the thread, other than thrashing Declan for his nits :-), viz: Given the remarkable cypherpunk-like sound of Dr. Friedman, the real question here is, who came first, Freidman-egg, or cypherpunk-chickens? The first edition of "The Machinery of Freedom" came out in the early 1980's, (83?, though somewhat-recently revised), yet Freidman leans heavily on post-mid-80's Chaum in his talk to Cato, and uses heretofore cypherpunk neology, like "anonymous remailers", "reputation capital", and the like. Not to mention actual citation of the list itself in reference to Brin's book about the hopelessness of all privacy. And, of course, cash-settled information purchases. He mentions IPiracy in his Cato talk, and tries to work around it contractually, and intimates that watermarking might be silly unless you can recompile your code with canary-traps for every customer, but doesn't say anything, like he should, about Hughes'"organized piracy" idea, much less recursive (geodesic) auctions, and so forth, as the obvious emergent solution to the whole problem of "intellectual" property. Maybe he prefers contracts because he's employed by a law school, or something? :-). Personally, I think myself that people haven't read Coase closely enough. That is, it seems to me that an encrypted copy of something in storage of my exclusive control is about as private as private property can get, and as such, I can sell it for whatever I can get for it. If it's on my hard drive, it ain't yours anymore, in other words. Somewhere, in my rants-to-do stack, is something on this topic, especially in light of the explosively emerging MP3 market out there, and, paradoxically, the market for the blind signature patent. Cheers, RAH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNn6yaMUCGwxmWcHhAQGn7AgAnFh2pumeFsOQBhrcyQbKV2omDNEEpFcU xktNynBgxivNl52mhdJICQGtCsYR2s1riiPK5Z5e+y7n4VJ1sEI+x4t8msnHDxmP ushpr9hjVpRBXB6+CinuMsZoWljFUwQzGjeHvoLPKAk2xyzZ1HxP2ZofBKqKvi3h SZw/m/ZtcooasDPkl5M4dAXs95/+MclddiTTgeVkytnW0MTMfiNIdUHICAxZBWmX sxJfLan66sIvKwmDJsH/Ilhq/Ng4vYKtFTBic2qJGql1oTPi3wX3fv/VYY0eB68J +wdo90a7Q7SLsYtX3s0QE/gxSMtcmj8CaZ9iMPECBRjFO4hcZRmVmQ== =moEV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Dec 21 13:39:42 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:39:42 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812212104.NAA05022@netcom13.netcom.com> well I personally am very careful to credit Timmy as the orginal originator whenever I lecture on cryptoanarchy, either in person or in any "fora" hehehe. modulo whatever BH has invented on geodesic markets or whatever. btw I was RBLL at BH's recent rant/diatribe/harangue against timmy (rolling in my barcolounger laughing) .. you two truly deserve each other >And yet this constellation of ideas, except for his discourse on digital >watermarking of intellectual property, is what I laid out beginning in >1988, and in thousands of essays here on this list. And in other fora. > >--Tim May > >We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and >their children. We would kill their families >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Dec 21 13:43:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:43:02 +0800 Subject: SNET: A Little Humor Message-ID: <199812212113.NAA06048@netcom13.netcom.com> From: BStokes45 at aol.com Subject: SNET: A Little Humor Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:21:38 EST To: johnsonlm at prodigy.net, dstokes at wt.net, skeptichat at lists.sonic.net, wethepeople at onelist.com, NOEL123 at juno.com, SNETNEWS at world.std.com, Roxrfun2me at aol.com -> SNETNEWS Mailing List Congress' Night Before Christmas "Twas the week before Christmas and those sly little elves, Our congressmen, labored to better themselves. They cared not a whit what the public might think "Let them eat cake," some said with a wink. And putting their thumbs to the tip of their nose, they waved as they shouted "Anything goes!" They scoffed at the thought that we might object, to a tax cut for the wealthy of a posh percent. They've got prerequisites-franking, per diem, and more -- bargain-priced haircuts and gyms (three or four!) Paid speaking engagements and meals on the cuff, celebrity status -- (they've sure got it tough!), Yet they claim they're in touch with the man on the street, as John Q. Public struggles to make both ends meet. If all workers decided what they were due, they'd be getting those fat paychecks too! But while we take cutbacks or raises quite small, and one out of 20 has no job at all, our millionaire Congress decides on the budget land trimming Medicare and Medicaid will do it, they say. In this season for giving, our Congress is taking. We've had it with them and our backs are breaking. With hard times, disasters, and layoffs on our dockets, we bit the bullet and they fill their pockets! Oh jobless, oh homeless, oh desperate and needy - dare anyone say our Congress is greedy? If in this feeling I'm not alone, take up your pen or pick up your phone. As dry leaves before the wild hurricane fly, let the road of your anger mount to the sky. Indignant, outraged, appalled and beset let your congressman know that you won't forget! When election times comes -- and certain it will -- you're voting him out for passing that bill. More rapid than eagles, their elections assured they toasted each other and laughed at the herd. And I heard them exclaim with adjournment at hand, "Merry Christmas to us, and the public be damned! The Audit =========== A man, called to testify at the IRS, asked his accountant for advice on what to wear. "Wear your shabbiest clothing. Let him think you are a pauper," the accountant replied. Then he asked his lawyer the same question, but got the opposite advice. "Do not let them intimidate you. Wear your most elegant suit and tie." Confused, the man went to his Rabbi, told him of the conflicting advice, and requested some resolution of the dilemma. "Let me tell you a story," replied the Rabbi. "A woman, about to be married, asked her mother what to wear on her wedding night. 'Wear a heavy, long, flannel nightgown that goes right up to your neck.' But when she asked her best friend, she got conflicting advice. Wear your most sexy negligee, with a V neck right down to your navel." The man protested: "What does all this have to do with my problem with the IRS?" "No matter what you wear, you are going to get screwed." Does anyone find it strange that we can find humor in the truth? -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: BStokes45 at aol.com From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Dec 21 14:13:05 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:13:05 +0800 Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality] Message-ID: <199812212113.NAA06060@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Lynford Theobald Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality] Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:51:19 -0700 To: "snetnews at world.std.com" -> SNETNEWS Mailing List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------408C3A349997A1C52693F214 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is more on the same. LT --------------408C3A349997A1C52693F214 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by bci for telnet12 (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Sun Dec 13 20:32:27 1998) X-From_: owner-scan at efga.org Sun Dec 13 19:03:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: from inferno.serversystems.net (inferno.serversystems.net [207.15.209.253]) by burgoyne.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04271 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:03:48 -0700 Received: (from majordomo at localhost) by inferno.serversystems.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00009 for scan-list.efga; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:14:22 -0500 Received: from alpha.airnet.net (page.airnet.net [207.120.51.2]) by inferno.serversystems.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00006; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:14:18 -0500 Received: from scottmcd (209.64.77.41) by alpha.airnet.net (Worldmail 1.3.167); 13 Dec 1998 19:11:29 -0600 From: "ScanThisNews" To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" Subject: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:13:18 -0600 Message-ID: <000501be26fe$f051e480$294d40d1 at scottmcd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-scan at efga.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: owner-scan at efga.org X-Web-Site: http://www.efga.org/ X-Mail-List-Info: http://efga.org/about/maillist/ X-SCAN: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 12/13/98 [forwarded from Larry Becraft] THE BIOMETRIC NATIONAL ID CARD IS NOW A REALITY... By Jon Christian Ryter Author of WHATEVER HAPPENED TO AMERICA? and THE BAFFLED CHRISTIAN'S HANDBOOK America was rightfully alarmed in late September when Representatives Bob Barr (R-GA) and Ron Paul (TX) revealed the fact that somehow, unbeknown to anyone, and for some as yet unexplained reason, the National ID Card that Hillary Clinton, Marc Tucker and Ira Magaziner had adroitly concealed in the failed Health Security Act of 1994 had somehow "accidentally" been passed, in a somewhat illegal and unconstitutional fashion, and was now "the law of the land." Pictured (see link below) is the actual "Healthcare Passport" card currently being used in three American cities. Displayed is the front and back of that card. This photo was scanned from the brochure used by the National Institute of Health to introduce the new card in a seminar in Denver earlier this year. The word "passport" on the card had to have been a tongue-in-cheek addition, since it is the precursor of the internal passport that will ultimately control your ability to move freely throughout this great land. The card is biometric. Stored on this card is the complete medical history of the card's owner. Also stored on the card is every conceivable piece of information about that person. Imbedded in the card is a tracking devise. The plan to create and implement a National ID Card, while first made "public" in a private White House meeting on Nov. 11, 1993 and discussed in a disavowed protocol that detailed the dialogue of that meeting, is not uniquely a Clintonoid idea even though the National ID Card first appears innocuously concealed in the Health Security Act as a "healthcare benefits card" that the First Lady insisted had to be carried by every American--even if they refused to be covered by the plan--under penalty of law. The same card, in the form of a national driver's license, had just been mandated by the European Union for all of the new European States. A brief battle waged in Europe over the national driver's license. Most Europeans had experienced national identity cards in the past and realized quickly the new universal European driver's license was an internal passport that would give their new government the tool they needed to control their lives. The media immediately labeled those who resisted the EU driver's license as "globalphobes" who were against progress, and wanted to return Europe to the days of the cold war. They were the extremists. In the United States, the Clinton's knew a National ID Card spelled problems, regardless what name was put on it. However, as a healthcare card that provided each American with thousands of dollars of free medical care, they correctly surmised that the ramblings of the right wing zealots could be easily dismissed by the mainstream liberal media. The media did its job well. The Health Security Act was the best thing since sliced bread and peanut butter. According to the media, the Health Security Act would provide healthcare for the millions upon millions of uninsured Americans. The media even obliged by ignoring the obviously flawed cost assessments as well. Hillary demanded that Congress pass the Health Security Act without and changes--reminiscent of FDR's passing the "emergency legislation" that kicked off the New Deal without allowing members of Congress to even see the legislation they were voting on--and unconstitutionally granting Roosevelt almost dictatorial power over the United States. Congress wasn't buying. They read the Health Security Act. Then, they rejected it. It was, they declared, the most expensive social experiment in the world. Buried in the National Archives, in the working papers of the Hillary Clinton healthcare plan, was a game plan in the event the Health Security Act went down in flaming defeat. The game plan? Implement another healthcare act that provided healthcare for children. No one would dare deny healthcare to children. To introduce the plan, they called on Teddy Kennedy. Kennedy failed. Kennedy, they realized, was trusted by most Americans even less than the Clintons. Next they turned to Orrin Hatch, who teamed up with Kennedy and rammed the legislation through Congress. Healthcare for kids. Of course, everyone was in favor of it. Voting against it was a good way to lose an election. And, once the law was codified, the bureaucracy possessed the authority to simply expand it to include anyone and everyone. What was not in the legislation was funding to create a biometric health care card. The authority to do it was there, but not the money. For the money, the Clinton administration turned to the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The foundation, created by the founder of Johnson & Johnson, obliged and funded the experimental program which was kicked off in three western cities (noted above). What was introduced to members of the National Institute of Health in Denver as a card that will record the inoculation records of children, includes everything from DNA typing to that individual's medical, psychiatric and financial history. It was because the biometric card would also contain the psychiatric history of the cardholder that an employee of the National Institute of Health approached me and offered me the data that is contained in this report. In my initial meeting with the NIH employee, I was also told that this person had commented to a NIH executive that it was not good for the card to contain so much personal information that was not needed to monitor the rates of inoculation of the children covered by the program, since it would provide the government information that could easily be misused. At that point the NIH executive laughed and said: "What do you think we have do with the data we get from Medicare and Medicaid? We've been using it for years to apprehend and deport illegal aliens and to capture those wanted by the law." In the case of the Health Passport, which is the precursor of the National Driver's License that will go into affect nationwide on October 1, 2000, however, the is one added feature--it contains a tracking chip. At a recent National Institute of Health seminar, an NIH executive proudly displayed an electronic map created by the NIH computer technicians that pinpointed every Health Passport card holder in Denver, Colorado. It was a "living map" that would track each Health Passport card holder if and when they moved. Whether or not such a map had been created for the other two "pilot" cities is not known. NOTE: Before I left Washington this afternoon, I spoke for about a half hour with Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club, and emailed Stan a copy of the Heath Passport Card. Stan has additional information on this subject, particularly with respect to a new computer mainframe that the government recently installed in Denver that ties in with the information I have been receiving from my own source in the National Institute of Health. Apparently this is the planned topic for the Prophecy Club's radio talk show next Monday (and because it is, I will not reveal any of the revelations that Stan shared with me on the phone this afternoon. I would strongly urge you to visit Stan's website for additional information. http://www.prophecyclub.com/ --------------------------------------------- http://www.westgov.org/hpp/hpp-web.htm HEALTH PASSPORT A Project of the Western Governors' Association - Frequently Asked Questions - Introduction to the Health Passport Project What is the Health Passport Project? The Health Passport Project is a three-city demonstration that uses what is called a "smart card" to put important health-related information at the fingertips of mothers and their children. People participating in the demonstration are those eligible for care under public health programs. The Health Passport Project is the largest health-care demonstration in the United States for smart cards and will be conducted over two years in the cities of Bismarck, North Dakota; Cheyenne, Wyoming; and Reno, Nevada. The project will demonstrate how people can use these electronic cards to give up-to-date information to their health-care providers, including physicians, nurses, nutritionists and early childhood educators. Food Retailers Grocers who handle thousands of checks for nutrition benefits will find the new system involves less paperwork, results in quicker check-out, and provides more timely reimbursement. The Health Passport works like a bank card at the check-out counter. Benefits are automatically downloaded to the client's card at the retailer. Distribution of WIC benefits will be demonstrated in Reno and Cheyenne. More About the Demonstrations Which public health programs are participating? --- Bismarck, North Dakota The Family Doctors, Bismarck Burleigh Nursing, WIC, Head Start, Immunizations, Medicaid, the Optimal Pregnancy Outcome Program, and Maternal and Child Health Bertie Bishop (701) 255-3397 --- Cheyenne, Wyoming Cheyenne Children's Clinic, the University of Wyoming Family Practice Residency Center, Laramie County Public Health Nursing, Medicaid, WIC, Head Start, Maternal and Child Health, and Immunizations Terry Williams (307) 777-6008 --- Reno, Nevada WIC, Immunizations, and Head Start Marty Brown (702) 883-6992 ------------------------------------------------- http://www.westgov.org/hpp/ http://www.westgov.org/wga/publicat/hppsum.htm Health Passport Information Technology: Toward a Health Card for the West "Congress is considering the most sweeping changes to the delivery of social services since the New Deal. In this environment, the Health Passport presents an innovative tool to help ensure the continued delivery of critical services to low income women and children--even as government sponsored programs are consolidated or eliminated. While devolution of authority to the states is expected to reduce duplicative federal administrative structures, the debate in Washington has done little to provide practical solutions. The Health Passport offers a tool to help achieve these administrative savings empowering citizens and preserving the integrity of services." ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= --------------408C3A349997A1C52693F214-- -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: Lynford Theobald From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 21 14:30:48 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:30:48 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981221214313.A21655@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 03:41:53PM -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > Given the remarkable cypherpunk-like sound of Dr. Friedman, the real question > here is, who came first, Freidman-egg, or cypherpunk-chickens? The first > edition of "The Machinery of Freedom" came out in the early 1980's, (83?, > though somewhat-recently revised), yet Freidman leans heavily on post-mid-80's > Chaum in his talk to Cato, and uses heretofore cypherpunk neology, like > "anonymous remailers", "reputation capital", and the like. Not to mention > actual citation of the list itself in reference to Brin's book about the > hopelessness of all privacy. "The Machinery of Freedom" far from being published in the early '80s was published in 1971 and is based on writings from the late '60s. It is very much aimed at 60s alternative types a with relaxed writing style, anti-drug law and pro freedom line. This book when I read it through FCS in the early '80s convinced me I was a libertarian. I didn't come across cypherpunk theory until much later and, when I did, I saw it obviously followed libertarianism. I am sure Friedman was well aware on how technological advances could weaken the state and to accuse him of "copying" is facile. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ one page principle: a specification that will not fit on one page of 8.5x11 inch paper cannot be understood. -- mark ardis From ABDULRAZAQ at aol.com Tue Dec 22 06:45:37 1998 From: ABDULRAZAQ at aol.com (ABDULRAZAQ at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:45:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: You Have Won World Class Florida/Caribbean Vacation Package! Message-ID: <9434159d.367face1@aol.com> "CONGRATULATIONS" PACK YOUR BAGS! You have been selected to ENTER for a World Class Florida/Caribbean Vacation Package offer! You Could Be One Of The Lucky Ones! FLORIDA - ST. CROIX - LAS VEGAS GETAWAY!!! You have been selected to ENTER for a LIMITED TIME ONLY! FAMILY GETAWAY FOR 2 ADULTS & UP TO 3 CHILDREN, OR 4 ADULTS! 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You are qualified based on demographics such as age, area you live in, etc. Qualified Entrants will be contacted by one of our Experienced Travel Representatives with the full details, ONLY ONE PHONE CALL PER HOUSHOLD. (All fields must be filled out completely in order to be a valid entry. This info will remain completely confidential!) * This covers all fees except for any incidentals such as phone, food, gratuities, and hotel taxes which are paid directly to the hotel. To Be Removed Send E-Mail To userap at spdy.com With "Delete" In Subject Line!>!>Subject Line!>!> From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 21 15:38:39 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:38:39 +0800 Subject: dbts: Georecursive Auctions (was Re: Friedman (The Younger)Sings...) Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 4:01 PM -0500 on 12/21/98, Somebody wrote: > > If it's on my hard drive, it ain't yours anymore, in other > > words. > > What are the assumptions? Assuming that you were given what is on your hard > drive, or can you have procured it by any means, like piracy, theft, etc. :-). I'm going to do a real rant on this, someday Real Soon Now, and you can see the germ of the idea in Freidman's talk, and in my old Shipwright rants , and also, I think, on the Philodox site . More to the point, we all, as far as I can tell, stole it from Eric Hughes, who even went so far as to present a paper on the subject, long ago at a DEFCON far away. Who knows where *he* got it from, but that's enough geneology for the time being... The point I'm making above comes from Ronald Coase, the father of modern microeconomics, winner of Nobel for same, circa 1992?. The most important thing that Coase said, the thing which got him the Nobel, was that firm size was directly related to transaction cost. In an information economy, especially in a world of Moore's law (yielding increasingly geodesic networks, and the markets overlaid on them) and strong cryptography (digital bearer transactions, perfect pseudonymity, etc.), tranaction costs get *very* small indeed, and in a considerable hurry. To some, I believe clueless :-), people, the above means that we still get economies of scale, because the first copy of a given modern bloatware application, like Word for Windows, is enormously expensive compared to its replication cost, which is functionally free by comparison, even if you put a box around it, much less if you just put it up for download from the web. However, *I* say that if you can do profitable transactions in, say, the micropenny range, you get a world where the bloated, industrially-delivered code-in-boxes that we've all come to know and love starts to surfact, under its own weight, into smaller and smaller functional bits, each maintained by different, and much smaller, firms. I use open source software as my case in point. Notice that, since the cost of code itself is free, there is a huge, and expanding, diversity of very specialized code out there now. The writers of that code don't make any money on that code except by proxy, through enhanced reputation, and so forth. However, if you could drive the cost of *transactions* down, people *would* write code just for the money, and simply auction it off their websites to the highest bidder, and could do so, profitably, for rediculously cheap prices. More about that in a minute. Sure, Red Hat grosses $20 million, but that's more a function of the cost-domination of sneaker-netted CDROM over the still-scrawny lower capillaries of the internet. More to the point, I claim, it's the result of the cost of *credit-cards*, even *checks*, as a way to pay for code. Book-entry settlement, in other words, which is done "out of band", over private, hierarchical, and proprietary financial transaction networks. If it were possible to pay to download code, as you needed it, for instantaneously net-settled *cash*, and for sufficiently small enough bits of money, then the need, the price-economy, if you will, for large glops of code would go away. And, Coase's theorem says (I think) so too would the large firms required to generate those large glops of code. So, what we're left with is a world where the legalities of intellectual property are physically impossible to enforce, thus words like "privacy" cease to have any real meaning. If you can't enforce such an intellectual "property" law, it's kind of hard to call it a law, as most law professors and philosophers of law will tell you. Ironically, I claim, that's a very strong form of a *second* observation that Ronald Coase made, that you can't have markets without private property. Sounds like a motherhood, now, but he was the first person to articulate that clearly, back in the early part of this century, and it's one of the reasons he got the Nobel, of course. *My* variant on Coase says that you don't need *laws* to ensure private property in digital form. Cryptography will do just fine. Like I said, if it's encrypted, and it's on my hard drive, it's now *mine* no matter where I got it, laws or not. I mean, who's to know I have it to begin with, and, more to the point, who's going to take it away without my permission, especially in a world of encrypted offsite net.backups, m-of-n archival reconstruction, etc. Write software, not laws, to quote the my old cypherpunk chestnut. Yet, I claim, to finally answer your point :-), people who *make* new code in such abrave new world, *still* make the most money. No, not "publish", or even distribute new code, like Microsoft and Ingram do, but the actual guy plinking away in CodeWarrior, or whatever. The mind behind the code, the developer, let's call him, in a proper use of the now mostly corrupted word. Here's how. You write software for a living. You upgrade your existing code base, and you announce its availablity to the net. Everyone who has your code knows how good your work is, and they probably have a standing bid in to buy revs of it at some specific price, anyway. So, just like the specialist's book at the New York Stock Exchange, you, or your website's CGI, accepts those bids, highest to lowest, and, as new bids come in, you sort them into the queue of outstanding orders, by price, of course, :-), and accept them in that order. Notice something important, but obvious, here. The people who bid the highest get the first copy. We'll worry about Vickery variations on that auction some other time. Secondly, there's the fun part, the *recursive* part of "geodesic recursive" or neologically, and, this very afternoon, "georecursive", auctions. That is, if I paid a monster pile for the first copy, I must have such a profitable need for it that it's worth it to me to pay that much. Of course, one of the most profitable things I can do especially in a world where the net isn't quite geodesic enough yet, and Freidman hints at this in his Cato talk, is to *flip* that code. Frankly, this is nothing really now. It's done identically the same way that large institutions flip IP0's in the market for a hot stock, or, more properly, a recording company or software "publisher" puts "talent" under contract and remarkets their output in classical vertically-integrated, and I say, now-industrial, markets for those goods. So, back to the future, I pay through the nose to get to the first copy of your code, because I have an orderbook of my *own* to fill, and, more properly, I have sufficient bandwidth and processing power of my own to remarket it. Even more fun, someone *else* can buy from me, and resell what I sell them, *recursively*, ad infinitum, and, frankly I don't really *care* what they do with what I sold them, because I've already bought low and sold high. I claim, even with all this rampant "piracy", and, especially as the network gets more geodesic -- a process which these markets would probably *accellerate* by the way think what would happen if you could sell bandwidth this way -- the person who collects the most economic "rent" would be *you*, the originator of the new code. Just like a rock star, if the code was popular enough, but without the recording company. Well, actually, with lots of very *little* record *distributors*, all taking a haircut, and, rarely would any of them make anything near like what you made selling the first copies. I mean, new information always costs more than old information, right? And, of course, you, as a developer, will always have the *newest* information of all... Finally, it even behoves huge companies who control large blocks of intellectual property, record companies, and Microsoft, for instance, :-), to compete in this new kind of market, precisely *because* the the transaction costs are so low and the initial profit margins are correspondingly higher. It's *profitable* to play in this market, even when you're losing market share, paradoxically, to smaller players. Think of what happened to large movie studios in the 1960's and '70's, and how they were replaced, in the *production* of movies, by director-owned, mostly ad-hoc, "virtual" production companies, like Coppola's Zoetrope, or Speilburg's Amblin, or Lucasfilm/ILM. Even the new "studios", like Dreamworks/SKG are really director-run enterprizes (Spielburg and Geffen, remember?). The "directors", the "auteurs" of software, are pretty much the guys who write the code, yes? Everything else is just transaction cost. Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNn7OucUCGwxmWcHhAQFidwf+MZ8SLZffWvH7g+QMY6Q2Q3P4flVkEVpr keXiF7cXXKlv/zL48wX1fjan93MMwN65b9/o7aIe1Wvq1nQfFE1AhPaShYZwciz9 NpInA2+9Mrz30cU4Nj775gXHfCaFl68tUmKd8GwUBI4rwjrHKgFy5hFSWlxNQSFF yQ8idMnmC7fSIELZJOurejYM90nA4z9QZZibekVuP+u3e6ogkclCS8m3e3QznpWY yCTYHqFFc5JHHEHc4PCOALWei74/rTRVvaziEU3QQCvytXgsZu2j0OLkpukc4zqb eJD/+Zkc3d1pfTqxaR4tLatr+QXVEuxozwz3nyoo3mzfd0LbKdBdnA== =kKXa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 16:04:04 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:04:04 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812212120.WAA30600@replay.com> i got a mail message delivered by the friendly old postal service, from Toto. he says he has been elected Santa Calus (aka Santa Loco) of Yucca South CellBlock, at FCI-Tuscon but 'Santa is in The Hole (TM).' he is or at least was sharing a cell with a skinhead called 'reaper.' but reaper has 'great reading material' - such as GQ magaazine - so it's 'not as grim as it might seem.' he says he has come down with a skin condition that is still untreated by the prison authorities. his toto-eque notes to the prison staff on 'inmate request' forms don't seem to be helping. that's all. From remailer at rugratz.com Mon Dec 21 16:55:58 1998 From: remailer at rugratz.com (NewzBot) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:55:58 +0800 Subject: Amazing New Virus from NAI!!! Message-ID: <199812220024.QAA09843@uwin1.u.washington.edu> Network Associates has just announced an NT virus which spreads over LAN/WANs. Fortunately, there is a solution. To speak to an NAI customer service representative, please call 800 338-8754. * Written in "C", an initial estimates is that it took NAI programmers 200 or more man-hours to write. Fortunately, there is a solution. To speak to an NAI customer service representative, please call 800 338-8754. Remember, there's a FREE Solution for Licensed NAI Corporate Customers Or If you are not a Licensed NAI Customer, just click to purchase the necessary anti-virus products online on our handy webpage. http://www.nai.com/antivirus/remote_explorer.asp Network Associates: The company you can trust, because we bought out Phil Zimmermann! Copyright (C) 1998 by Your Friends at Network Associates From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 17:48:55 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:48:55 +0800 Subject: Good archive of AES algorithms? Message-ID: <199812220127.CAA17522@replay.com> > Is there a good archive of all the algorithms submitted for > AES? I'd be interested especially in one that also had > info on what's been broken so far, plus implementations and > performance numbers. I can't find all this info on any one > site, but I can't believe that one doesn't exist. The home page for the AES is http://www.nist.gov/aes/ There is a page with current attack/break information at: http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/aes.html. Bruce Schneier et al have done performance comparisons of AES algorithms; links to their results at http://www.counterpane.com/AES-performance.html. From riburr at shentel.net Mon Dec 21 18:09:59 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:09:59 +0800 Subject: export controlled fermenters In-Reply-To: <199812211728.SAA12954@replay.com> Message-ID: <367EF915.829C1867@shentel.net> Anonymous wrote: > http://www.acda.gov/factshee/wmd/bw/auslist.htm > AUSTRALIA GROUP > LIST OF BIOLOGICAL AGENTS FOR EXPORT > CONTROL CORE LIST1 [...] > Genetically Modified Micro-organisms > > G1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain > nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from > organisms in the core list. > > G2. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain > nucleic acid sequences coding for any of the toxins in the core list, or > their subunits. > > Toxins as follow and subunits thereof:2 > > T1. Botulinum toxins > T2. Clostridium perfringens toxins > T3. Conotoxin > T4. Ricin > T5. Saxitoxin > T6. Shiga toxin > T7. Staphylococcus aureaus toxins > T8. Tetrodotoxin > T9. Verotoxin > T10. Microcystin (Cyanginosin) > T11. Alflatoxins [...] Hmmm, mythical chimeras subject to export control? E. coli with a dinoflagellate sting? Smegma that erupts into gas gangrene? Surely these nightmares are only paranoid delusions of national security strategists who may have eaten British beef too close to bedtime. A pox on their infections! And a swab of flesh eating streptococcus on the lubri-smooth strip of all their razors, so they can't save face. From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 21 18:23:05 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:23:05 +0800 Subject: Anonymous nym ratings Message-ID: <199812220202.DAA22604@replay.com> Adam Back writes: > Probably a good rule of thumb is never to sign anything and always > post via a mixmaster chain. Good idea! > Some messages don't need a persistent nym > even. Perhaps one could construct a zero knowledge proof of nym > reputation rating without identityfing the nym which might be useful > for filtering without linkability. This could be done via some of the recent work on group signatures. Efficient methods have been developed to show that a message is signed by a key, without revealing what the key is, but proving that the key itself is signed by a specific other key. Imagine an editor who only signs keys belonging to people who deserve to get through filters. Call this "endorsing" a key. If you respect that editor, you set your filters to let messages through which are by keys he has endorsed in this manner. Now, people can submit messages anonymously, but in such a way that they are provably written by an endorsed key, without revealing which key it is. The protocols are reasonably efficient, with signature verification taking about 20 times longer than a regular DSS signature. However the methods involve blind signatures, and hence would infringe upon Chaum's patent. The group signature was described at Crypto 97; an extension for blind group signatures at Asiacrypt 98; and more work will be presented at FC 99. From emc at wire.insync.net Mon Dec 21 20:28:04 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:28:04 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre Message-ID: <199812220337.VAA18943@wire.insync.net> Friday's debut of "Anthrax Theatre" was such an critically aclaimed success, that another performance was given today, to an audience ten times the size. ----- LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A telephoned anthrax threat forced as many as 1,500 people to be quarantined for several hours on Monday at two courthouses before it was found to be a hoax. A man called the 911 emergency line at about 11 a.m. and stated ``I have something to tell you -- anthrax has been released in the Van Nuys courthouse,'' then hung up, said Laura Bosley, a spokeswoman for the FBI. The old and new Superior Court buildings in Van Nuys were sealed off and up to 1,500 people taken outside and isolated to determine whether they were exposed to any hazardous materials, authorities said. Hazardous materials crews with face masks, air tanks and protective suits were sent inside. ``They did an investigation and nothing was found,'' said Jim Wells, a spokesman for the city Fire Department. No major injuries or illnesses were reported. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From jei at zor.hut.fi Mon Dec 21 20:32:31 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:32:31 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote: > At 10:03 PM 12/17/98 +0200, Jukka E Isosaari wrote: > --snip-- > >Everyone is touting how he [saddam hussein, (Reeza!)] is behind every > >nasty thing that the Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison > >him. Don't take it out on all the Iraqis. > > Make a martyr of him, in other words? > > >Now, how's that for an alternative? > > Perfectly acceptable to me personally. Please show how it will result in > proving that Iraq does not, and will not in the near or forseeable future > possess weapons of mass destruction that may be utilized against > neighbors, foreign or domestic. Or how it will result in turning the > public opinion, iraqi and/or american, touted by the biased US press in > such a fashion that it would result in a munificent display of openness, > agreeablility, and welcoming to the UN inspectors by the iraqi hosts. Or > show how Hussein is now trustworthy, and thereby qualified by the MIB > office of the USG to possess said weapons. It won't. But please show how bombing the shit out of all the Iraqis will accomplish this either? I would imagine getting rid of the lunatic leader and establishing a civilized democracy with human rights in place, would result in a state that would not be as prone to be as aggressive or inclined to use weapons of mass destruction. Or isn't that the ultimate goal? But you are right, I must admit, that not *all* democracies are non-aggressive, with USA coming to mind as an example. It seems that rotten people with no moral values at the top, result in aggressive foreign policies, no matter what the nation. The bombing will only result in creating more frustrated individuals with personal vendettas against the US. (People with dead children/wives, etc.) With your logic, the US is on a road to kill every non-american on this planet, in order to ensure their own safety. Actually, this has been evident quite some time in the US foreign policy: The *only* lives that matter are the American ones. It is also very evident in the US film industry (national propaganda/brainwashing machine). Just how many war movies have you seen where the US special-forces squads venture into the vietnam/arabs and kill hundreds or thousands of people in order to save a few US prisoners? Try thinking that in reverse, an Arab squad coming into the US, and killing hundreds of US citizens to save a few arabs, for a change. Seeing a few movies like that would do some good to a lot of americans in restoring their respect for universal human life. Anyway, the point I am trying to make in this, is that the americans don't in general seem to put any value on human life, *unless* it is an american. This is evident everywhere: in their film industry, their foreign politics, and even Bill Gates' donation policies. It seems to be a fact ever more blatant. Anyone else notice this? > >The military is engaged > >in creating a threat to justify their existence and continued > > EAT MY MILITARY FUCKING SHORTS YOU PUSSY FUCKWAD FAGGOT SON-OF-A-BITCH. > The powers of the military are being abused by CIVILIANS who cannot > fathom the true purpose of the military, think the military doesn't earn > its pay. I have something for YOU to earn, you ewe you. > > >economic well-being. Saddam is worth much, much more to them when > >he is alive and well in Iraq. > > OH YEAH, OH YEAH, THAT is why we dropped leaflets advocating the iraqis > do everything in their power to maintain their present, totalitarian > regime. GET A FUCKING CLUE YOU GREASY STAIN ON THIS MAILING LIST. Did I hit a nerve or something? Usually people resort to name-calling only when feeling badly inferior or in lack of any real facts to represent in defence of their case, and in general this justifies the strong doubt that the person in question is in fact a juvenile. I'm sorry, but I won't waste my time on blathering kids like you. (Please note: I've Cc:ed the root at your site, as you appear to be so childish, and I wouldn't know what a child is doing with a .mil account, so you must be using your parent's account or a hacked account, both of which are in general very much against the rules.. Or, in the unlikely case that you are actually an adult, please consider this as an exemplary sample of Mr Zeebra's skills in delivering verbal attacks in defence of his country. Surely you recognize his superiors language skills and the qualifications he has for the assignation to the national ultra secret verbal cyber-warfare attack squad, designed to destroy the egos and PCs of all those who have not bought in to the US military propaganda.) In any case, I realize this is the wrong list for this discussion. Please continue in private, like a good netbaby, if you feel like more name-calling. I've already added you to my filters. ++ J > >The fact, however, is that any loony Unabomber cooking some anthrax > >in his cellar in the US, would be able to harm the US more than the > >whole nation of Iraqis right now, or in the years to come. Welcome > >to Echelon and big brother surveillance justification. > > OH YEAH, OH YEAH BABY, You are on a roll, tell it like it is, > > < > > Like the good doctor in nevada who appeared on national tv TWO WHOLE > FUCKING DAYS BEFORE the feds > ransacked his lab, only to have their entire "just cause" falter and be > riddled with inexcusable and inexplicable faults, to ultimately be thrown > out for lack of evidence? > > If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so > easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT > HERE. > > 24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making > the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away > inappropriate information" pussy shit. It is wholly relevant, not > inappropriate, and will MAKE ME APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE LIST. > > DO IT. DO IT. DO IT, > you make me want to vomit. > > > shut the fuck up and go the fuck away. > > > Don't try to do any good deeds for me, you Do Gooder Piece Of Shit. > > > BTW, Fuck You. > > > Reeza! > > > > > DH Key available on request > > > > If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention > > of doing you good, you should run for your life. > > > -stolen from a cypherpunk sig > > From jei at zor.hut.fi Mon Dec 21 21:22:39 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:22:39 +0800 Subject: [ISN] Need help keeping your company's mail respectable? (fwd) Message-ID: Thought some people might be in need of a tool like this... ++ J ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:32:59 -0700 (MST) From: mea culpa To: InfoSec News Subject: [ISN] Need help keeping your company's mail respectable? Need help keeping your company's mail respectable? http://www8.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,364134,00.html By Christy Walker, PC Week Online October 26, 1998 9:00 AM ET IT managers looking to clean up their companies' e-mail and enforce corporate e-mail policies can get help from several software developers. New releases due soon from Worldtalk Corp., SRA International Inc. and Content Technologies Inc. will augment the basic management capabilities found in mainstream e-mail packages such as Lotus Notes and Microsoft Exchange, adding features such as content control, archiving, security and virus scanning. Worldtalk, of Santa Clara, Calif., early next year will roll out an upgrade of its WorldSecure Server that will allow users to control e-mail content, scan for viruses and enforce archive policies on internal messages as well as messages moving between the company and the public Internet. The new release, Version 4.0, will monitor mail moving across the internal network. The current version, 3.2, sits at the gateway level and only scans messages between the company and the Internet. Another tool, Assentor, from SRA, uses a natural language search engine to automate the scanning of e-mail messages for inappropriate content. Assentor 1.2, which is due by early next year, will include the ability to route messages based on the word patterns found in an e-mail message. Version 1.2 will also be able to look for specific word patterns based on the requirements of individual groups, said officials of the Fairfax, Va., company. Assentor is widely used by securities companies that are required by the Securities and Exchange Commission to closely monitor e-mail and other client communications. The product helps reduce the numbers of messages that branch managers and compliance officers must review, SRA officials said. Assentor uses MIMEsweeper, e-mail scanning software from Content Technologies. Content Technologies, meanwhile, plans to boost MIMEsweeper with the ability to deal with encryption. Version 4.0, due early next year, will support message decryption so that MIMEsweeper can scan encrypted messages for content such as viruses, said officials at the Kirkland, Wash., company. In addition, Content Technologies will roll out a MIMEsweeper add-on module next month that scans both inbound and outbound messages for offensive language. -o- Subscribe: mail majordomo at repsec.com with "subscribe isn". Today's ISN Sponsor: Repent Security Incorporated [www.repsec.com] From blancw at cnw.com Mon Dec 21 21:23:27 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:23:27 +0800 Subject: Friedman (The Younger) Sings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601be2d68$d3fd63c0$878195cf@blanc> >From Bob Hettinga: : Given the remarkable cypherpunk-like sound of Dr. Friedman, the real question : here is, who came first, Freidman-egg, or cypherpunk-chickens? The first : edition of "The Machinery of Freedom" came out in the early 1980's, (83?, : though somewhat-recently revised), yet Freidman leans heavily on post-mid-80's : Chaum in his talk to Cato, and uses heretofore cypherpunk : neology, like "anonymous remailers", "reputation capital", and the like. : Not to mention actual citation of the list itself in reference to Brin's : book about the hopelessness of all privacy. ................................................. Friedman came first, though there were others before him, in reference to the economic philosophical side of the anarchist-type ideas. But Friedman sometimes contributed to the Extropian list, as I remember when I was on it, and very likely lurked on cypherpunks, as I remember seeing a post or two from him - perhaps only because he was copied on a question. But he was 'exposed', so to speak, to the cpunkish themes from either, or both, lists, and no doubt had off-line conversations on these subjects. .. Blanc From simyamuh at yahoo.com Mon Dec 21 22:34:07 1998 From: simyamuh at yahoo.com (simya mühendislik) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:34:07 +0800 Subject: list Message-ID: <19981222060923.10427.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> thanks! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From gbroiles at netbox.com Mon Dec 21 23:46:07 1998 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:46:07 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Update, part II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19981221212704.00935410@pop.wenet.net> I've been away for a bit, physically and otherwise, but have am back from vacation and spent some time down at the clerk's office of the bankruptcy court in San Jose today. Apropos to an ongoing discussion of a week or so ago - At 07:20 PM 12/16/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: [...] >Of course, we'll find out the real answers to all of this when the Chapter 11 >filing is actually final. Right now, I hear that there's nothing there but >a placeholder filing, with no actual assets listed in detail, much less >whether they're secured by anything. The filing is real - the court's file is up to about 400 pages, so I didn't get the whole thing, but the schedules (including a list of assets) have been filed. I'm in the process of digesting them into a website about the Digicash bankruptcy. A little birdie sent me a document which is purportedly the Dutch bankruptcy filing, and I'm looking for a translator. Volunteers? According to the documents filed with the court, Digicash Inc. has assets of $51,649, and liabilities of $3,068,076.49. The breakdown is as follows: Real estate $0 Personal property $51,649 Secured claims ($123,438.09) Unsecured priority claims ($279,500.60) Unsecured nonpriority claims ($2,665,137.80) Personal property includes $5,595.00 in cash, $23,220 in advance payments on leases or security deposits, $5,750 in accounts receivable, and $17,084 in office supplies, furniture, and equipment. Secured claims includes $73,449.56 for/secured by computer equipment, $12,362 for/secured by a copier, and $37,626.53 for/secured by office furniture, fittings, etc. Unsecured priority claims are for wages & commissions owed to employees and independent sales agents, for amounts earned in the 90 days prior to bankruptcy, maxing out at $4300 per person entitled to priority. Unsecured nonpriority claims are everything else - including a bridge loan from August Capital for $825,941.00, a bridge loan from the Glide IT Fund for $386,325.18, legal fees of $103,756 to Gunderson Dettmer, $53,143.25 to Netscape (apparently a software license, marked as disputed), a bridge loan from Nicholas Negroponte for $193,735.20, legal fees of $25,103.29 to Nixon & Vanderhyde of Washington DC (patent attorneys, who were kind enough to file detailed legal bills with their proof of claim), a bridge loan from Paul Van Keep of $61,698.36, legal fees of $20,635.59 to Steinhauser Hoogenraad of the Netherlands, a bridge loan of $581,339.77 from Tech. For Information and Entertainment III LP of Lexington MA, and a bridge loan of $7242.35 from Thomas Little of Nashua NH. (there are also a fair number of small to medium trade debts which I haven't listed here.) The IP listed as assets (but not assigned a value in the amounts shown above) include these patents: (all are US patents) 5,712,913 Limited-traceability systems 5,781,631 Limited-traceability systems 5,493,614 Private signature and proof systems 5,485,520 Automatic real-time highway toll collection from moving vehicles [listed twice] 5,434,919 Compact endorsement signature systems 5,373,558 Desinated[sic]-confirmer signature systems 5,276,736 Optionally moderated transaction systems 5,131,039 Optionally moderated transaction systems 4,996,711 Selected-exponent signature systems 4,991,210 Unpredictable blind signature systems 4,987,593 One-show blind signature systems 4,949,380 Returned-value blind signature systems 4,947,430 Undeniable signature systems 4,926,480 Card-computer moderated systems 4,914,698 One-show blind signature systems 4,759,064 Blind unanticipated signature systems 4,759,063 Blind signature systems 4,529,870 Cryptographic identification, financial transaction, and credential device The IP list also mentions that DigiCash holds copyrights to software in the US and abroad, without providing further detail. Digicash holds or has filed for trademarks on the terms "DIGICASH" and "ECASH" in the following jurisdictions: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Switzerland, Chile, China, Costa Rica, Germany, European Community, Finland, Israel, India, Iceland, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Malaysia, Norway, New Zealand, Phillipines, Singapore, Thailand, and the United States. They have also filed for (not all are approved or registered) the following trademarks in the US: CRYPTOPAY, CYBER DOLLAR, CYBER PAY, CYBER$, CYBER-BUCKS, CYBER-CASH, CYBERCHEQUE, CYBERMILES, DATACOIN, DIGI$, DIGI-CASH, DIGI-DOLLAR, DIGIBANK, DIGICASH, DIGICOIN, DIGIPAY, E$, E-CASH, E-COIN, E-DOLLAR, E-MONEY, E-PAY, E-VOTE, ECREDIT, EGIRO, EMILES, EWIRE, EYECASH/ICASH, FIRST DIGITAL BANK, KIDCASH, MONEY MAN, MONEY MEDIA, NET-CASH, NET-PAY, PAY-AS-YOU-GO, TELEPAY, V-BANK, V-CASH, V-COIN, V-MONEY, V-PAY, V-SHOP, VIRTUAL CASH, VIRTUAL COIN. There's no discussion of foreign patents, which seems peculiar - the legal bills from the patent attorneys included amounts for foreign associates, with legal bills for Japanese patent matters sticking out in particular. As far as I can tell, Digicash Inc. (the US corp) was formed in 1990; the Netherlands and Australian corps are/were subsidiaries of the US corp. The filing discloses the following historical financial data - Year Sales 1998 $134,842 1997 $ 10,000 Year Income 1998 $23,161 interest 1998 $ 2,580 sale of assets 1997 $53,464 interest The other item which may be of interest is that the IP portfolio has been pledged as collateral for a post-filing bridge loan obtained from most of the funders who are owed the $2M unsecured; I was hoping to trade files with someone else (whom I haven't been able to meet with yet) so I didn't get a copy of that filing, but I seem to remember that the postfiling bridge loan, approved by the court, was for $330K, which will be paid back from the proceeds of the sale of DigiCash's assets. I'm hoping to work all of this up into a more comprehensive presentation, but that's going to take another week or two at least. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com PGP: 0x26E4488C From tonne at thur.de Tue Dec 22 01:17:32 1998 From: tonne at thur.de (FitugMix) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:17:32 +0800 Subject: distribution scheme Message-ID: <199812220853.JAA16038@jengate.thur.de> I'd like to request your comments on the following idea. code for this is ready, awaiting yours and some other people's comments regarding some of the non-coding issues. for example, I'd like a lawyer or someone else familiar with the law to comment on the legal aspects. also, cryptologic expertise would be great. however, this is NOT an encryption scheme. the goals are different ones, I'll talk about that in a second. the basic idea is to take a piece of information and chop it into a number of pieces. this is basically the reverse process of "take the first letter of every word". digital information, however, can be divided at an even lower level, the bit level. imagine to chop a file into 8 parts, with the top bit of every byte going into the first file, the second bit into the second and so on. as you can imagine, the first 8 top-bits will again form a byte in the first file. now imagine the same principle, with an *arbitrary* number of files. the goal of this is not a new encryption scheme. cryptological, my limited knowledge tells me this is not too bad, but far from "secure". the nice things are that the files themselves contain no information about how many total files there are and in which order they have to be re-assembled, and without that knowledge you are in for some work of cryptoanalysis. the idea is to provide for a channel of distribution of arbitrary material, even copyrighted, patented or illegal in your country (e.g. china) in a "legal" way. that's why I'd like legal advice on this - is the idea correct? I cannot be sued for distributing a couple hundred E's and A's because they are part of a copyrighted book. can I be sued for distributing a couple of bits from a copyrighted image file? a trademarked or patented document? are there any legal precedents? I know that in the case of encryption, courts have at least once ruled that distribution of the key that unlocks this is equivalent to distribution of the copyrighted material, but in this case there is no key, no single piece of information that contains anything "central". tell me what you think. I can post code or details if you want. Falcon From jei at zor.hut.fi Tue Dec 22 02:16:16 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:16:16 +0800 Subject: The long, strong arm of the NSA (fwd) Message-ID: http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/27/security.idg/index.html The long, strong arm of the NSA July 27, 1998 Web posted at: 4:15 PM EDT by Ellen Messmer FORT MEADE, Maryland (IDG) -- Back in the days of the cold war, Washington insiders used to joke that NSA stood for "No Such Agency." The government denied the very existence of this group, which is dedicated to intercepting and decoding foreign communications. That was then. Today the National Security Agency is well known, and spends a lot of time leaning on software, switch and router vendors, pushing them to re-tool their products. The agency's goal: to ensure that the government has access to encrypted data. The industry is facing a year-end deadline to add a government-approved back door into network gear. Vendors that don't provide this access risk losing export privileges. Cruising up and down Silicon Valley, NSA spooks from the agency's Fort Meade headquarters have been making pit stops at companies ranging from industry leaders Netscape Communications Corp. and Sun Microsystems, Inc. to start-ups such as VPNet Technologies, Inc. in order to get a peek at products still on the drawing board. The NSA wants software vendors to make sure that any product with strong encryption have some way for the government to tap into the data. And because practically every commercial network application, router or switch these days includes encryption or an option for it, almost every vendor now has to answer to the NSA if it wants to export. Hot line to the NSA It's gotten to the point where no vendor hip to the NSA's power will even start building products without checking in with Fort Meade first. This includes even that supposed ruler of the software universe, Microsoft Corp. "It's inevitable that you design products with specific [encryption] algorithms and key lengths in mind," said Ira Rubenstein, Microsoft attorney and a top lieutenant to Bill Gates. By his own account, Rubenstein acts as a "filter" between the NSA and Microsoft's design teams in Redmond, Wash. "Any time that you're developing a new product, you will be working closely with the NSA," he noted. When it comes to encryption, it's widely known that a 40-bit encryption key is easily breakable and hence rather useless. Until not long ago, this is what the U.S. government allowed for the export of software. But the Clinton administration a year and a half ago said it would allow the export of products with stronger encryption keys by any vendor that agreed to add a "key-recovery" feature to its products by year-end - giving the government access to encrypted data without the end user's knowledge. According to Bill Reinsche, Department of Commerce undersecretary for the Bureau of Export Controls, about 50 vendors have submitted plans for government-approved key-recovery, also called data-recovery. These companies, which include IBM, were rewarded with Key Management Infrastructure (KMI) export licenses to export products with 56-bit or stronger encryption until year-end. But some companies are discovering that dealing with the Commerce Department for a KMI license means more involvement with the NSA. The Bureau of Export Control is actually just a front for the NSA, said Alison Giacomelli, director of export compliance at VPNet Technologies, Inc., a San Jose, Calif.-based vendor of IP-based encryption gateways. "The NSA has sign-off authority on these KMI licenses," Giacomelli said. In return for the KMI license, VPNet opened itself up for an NSA audit. "They've already come out once, and they'll be coming out again," Giacomelli said. VPNet remains committed to meeting the deadline for adding key-recovery to its product but has one major problem: uncertainty about what the NSA really wants. The confusion means "there's a lot of risk . . . in terms of engineering and resources," Giacomelli said. Clearly wary of granting the government supervision over its products, Microsoft has stubbornly refused to submit a data-recovery plan, even though the Redmond giant already includes a data-recovery feature in its Exchange Server. "The Exchange Server can only be used when this feature is present," Rubenstein said. "Because we haven't filed a product plan, it's harder for us to export this than for companies that have filed plans." But in an odd-couple sort of joint-partner arrangement, Microsoft and the NSA did work together to build what's called Server Gated Cryptography. Primarily intended to help banks use Web servers to do business internationally, the technology lets a server with a special digital certificate provide 128-bit encryption support to a Web browser outside the U.S. Sybase, Inc., which also submitted a plan to add key-recovery to its products, found it hard to satisfy the government's demands. "They approved our technological approach but disapproved each of our applications with it," said Sybase President and CEO Mitchell Kertzman. "It's been frustrating." Documents recently obtained under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) by the Washington, D.C.-based Electronic Privacy Information Center contain the data-recovery plan Netscape filed at the Commerce Department last year. Netscape's plan explains that the "escrow of private encryption keys" could be achieved by developing client and server products that can only issue an X.509 digital certificate after the private key has been escrowed. The key can only be held by an entity chosen by the intranet administrator who handles security policy. The Netscape plan called for introducing a certificate server with recovery capabilities in the first quarter of this year, with the introduction of S/MIME clients with basic recovery features in the second quarter. Netscape hasn't actually carried out this plan, and the company declined to discuss it. Netscape attorney Peter Harter would only say officially, "We had no choice but to submit the plan, no matter how much we opposed key-escrow, in order to be part of the ongoing dialog." Other FOIA documents show that Netscape was regularly briefing the NSA on its product plans since 1996 and that then NSA Deputy Director William Crowell took a special interest in trying to dissuade Netscape from using strong encryption. Crowell, now vice president for product marketing and strategy at Cylink Corp., said he had frequent discussions with Netscape, especially concerning changes to Netscape Navigator. "Their product didn't have a separate signature key, so if the government used the product for key-escrow later, you'd have to store the signature key with a third party, which we thought was a bad idea," Crowell said. He added that Netscape Navigator 3.0 adopted the changes the NSA wanted. According to Crowell, the NSA has a great deal of expertise in securing communications, and it wants to ensure that products bought by the Defense Department meet NSA standards. "In addition, as part of the NSA's intelligence mission, [the agency needs] to have a thorough understanding of where commercial products are headed." Taher Elgamal, author of the Netscape data-recovery plan, who recently left Netscape to start his own venture, said Netscape had no choice but to maintain constant contact with the NSA. "They're costing the industry a lot of money," Elgamal said. Others agree. "Everyone in Silicon Valley, including us, has to have specific staff - highly paid experts - to deal with them," said Chris Tolles, security group product manager at Sun. "Their job is to wrangle this from a policy standpoint." Sun has had run-ins with the NSA in the past. Two years ago, the NSA objected to Sun including encryption in the exportable version of Java 1.1. The end result was that Sun stripped encryption out of Java 1.1 and the software was delayed by about six months. Related stories: Hole in Internet security discovered - June 30, 1998 Government restrictions on encryption pose obstacles for Internet security - May 18, 1998 From jf_avon at citenet.net Tue Dec 22 20:02:56 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:02:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [humor] Fwd: Computer News Message-ID: <199812230409.XAA15192@cti06.citenet.net> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Subject: Computer News >Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:11:42 -0800 Microsoft announced this week that due to Y2K problems, Windows 2000 will be delayed until Jan, 1901. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 22 05:47:47 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:47:47 +0800 Subject: MCI hit with encryption virus [CNN] Message-ID: <199812221331.HAA06688@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/9812/21/virus_pkg/ > From Correspondent Bruce Francis > December 21, 1998: 7:56 p.m. ET > July 30, 1998 Network Associates MCI WorldCom More Quotes.... Network > Associates Anti-virus Research Center NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Employees > at MCI WorldCom were confronted with a science fiction scenario made > cold fact on Monday when a computer virus struck the company's > sprawling network, encrypting and destroying files. > [INLINE] To make things worse, virus consultants Network Associates > (NETA) say that the virus -- called "Remote Explorer" -- is unlike > any other and may be the smartest, most dangerous computer bug to > date. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rajiv.malik at riverrun.com Tue Dec 22 05:48:20 1998 From: rajiv.malik at riverrun.com (Rajiv Malik) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:48:20 +0800 Subject: This one spl. for anonymous (X-mas puzzle) Message-ID: <36802B35.83ACD1D0@riverrun.com> Hi there I remember u posted a nice puzzle long back this one spl. for u : --> There are two persons. A pair of no is written on each's face. They can see the no (pair of no) written on the other's face and they have to tell the no written on their face. They start one by one. Lets say one person starts he can see the no written on his opponents face , its (13,17). After 3 tries he tells the correct answer. The nos exhibit the following properties: 1> All the nos are prime. 2> Any three no taken ( from the set of 4 nos, two no on each's face) together form a triangle and the perimeter of the triangle is prime. Now you have tell the no written on that persons face and why it took him three tries. The conversation between the two persons is as follows Let p1 and p2 be the persons and p1 starts and p1 saw the no (13,17) written in p2. p1> I don't know p2> I don't know p1> I don't know p2> I don't know p1> Tells the right no. enjoy (Happy X-mas) Rajiv PS : I'm off till 28th So u have enough time. From howree at cable.navy.mil Tue Dec 22 07:00:34 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:00:34 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981222230204.03b51100@205.83.192.13> At 12:41 PM 12/21/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: > > >*WHY* is it any of our business whether he owns weapons of *any* kind? WE >own them, and we USE them: Does this give other nations the right to >embargo us, and to bomb us into oblivion if we refuse to allow THEM to >tell US what to do? > >Our concern for his weaponry should only be an issue *IF* he uses them, as >with *OUR* weaponry. Yours is the classical anti-gun argument, and it's >no more effective at the international level than at the state level. This would be a valid argument, if he had not already sanctioned Kuwait. OOPS. Did you forget that? Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different character than it is in Iraq now isn't it??? Hmmm??? >:Reeza! >:DH Key available on request >Note that your DH Key is a "munition"... Shouldn't you be "qualified" to >have it by the USG - strictly for the safety of the world, of course... > >Yours, >J.A. Terranson >sysadmin at mfn.org well J.A., my DH Key is just as much a "munition" as my house key, legal definitions not-withstanding. ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From howree at cable.navy.mil Tue Dec 22 07:16:15 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:16:15 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981222233351.03b44550@205.83.192.13> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 6052 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iang at systemics.com Tue Dec 22 08:26:20 1998 From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:26:20 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <199812140427.AA12697@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199812221528.LAA05757@systemics.com> > What about near money, e.g., S&H Green Stamps, > frequent flier miles, Toys R Us Bucks, or anything > else that can only be used reflexively with the > issuer? Near money is something that many people hold out hope for, and you may all be right, in that it may be the way forward through the morass of difficulties. I personally don't think so, not for any killer reason, but for a whole host of little reasons. I'll see if I can't enunciate them, and no doubt within the session you are running, we'll have some lively discussions. > In the Depression, many southern manufacturing > firms and, so far as my relatives tell, 100% of > the coal mining outfits, paid in scrip which was > redeemable only at the company store. Some of my > Mother's people worked at the phone company and > converted their scrip to stock since they judged > it worthless otherwise. This is the Hiawatha Hours, as I rudely called them (I keep forgetting the name, sorry). Now, these are working systems. They are more or less the same as the LETS systems, which are sort of successful in many hundreds of places. Where they work is generally an indication of some shortage. With the above systems, and as far as I can tell, with all systems, there is a shortage of cash. It is not just that everyone is poor, but that the cycle of money in its journey from entity to entity throughout the economy is broken. In contrast to this shortage and cyclic failure, demand and supply for goods and services remain high, at least in many sectors. In this case, anything that is injected can conceivably bootstrap the cycle again, and this is why, IMHO, the many different range of instruments all appear to have been successful. It is not the instrument, but the presence of an instrument. One thing to remember is that the local economy is generally the larger proportion of the total economy. I have empirically noted that in most towns with identifiable export industries, there are 3 people employed elsewhere for every one within the direct export sector - this is a reflection that most people are actually supporting the rest. (However, this doesn't take into account the import side of the equation.) Under such circumstances, it is no real wonder that a shortage of money will cause an economy to grind to a halt, and an injection of money will start it up again - to the extent that import/export permits. But bear in mind that this is a competitive scenario, and the scrip money tends to work well when the statal currency disappeared as in the Depression. When the statal money comes back in, the scrip fails to entice, because it is only useful by definition for local products, not imported products. In that scenario it is dominated (to use the term) by statal currency. > You can buy FF miles at > 2c/mile at both the Delta and AA websites and US > Air FF miles now exchange 1-for-1 with AA FF > miles. Every affinity program in the country > offers dollar denominated discounts at the home > issuing location. Yes, one of the huge barriers to any money system is the border to any other money system. At this border, the change costs are a very important limiter on the success of the system. Remember that a merchant must convert to useful money in order to pay his costs, so a small system cannot really work without an internal method of spending money, to offset that. This is the real reason why countries have money, because they have a border that defines a naturally sized unit. With MTB ecash, this became very apparent when merchants had to extract their cash at somewhere between 2 and 5 percent, thus putting the lie to the notion of cash. With FF miles, they alleviate this somewhat by recasting the situation as a loyalty programme, and thus you use the internal goods. So it only works when you are a regular user. Adding convertability makes it closer to money. But there is one killer that will never make it be accepted as a dominating form of money. All loyalty programmes are calculated on the basis of this actually accruing value to the provider, rather than the other way around. Necessarily, this means the user is paying for the priviledge of being loyal. This is done three ways. Firstly, most successful loyalty programmes such as FF miles are based on goods with a low marginal cost but high ticket cost. To the airline, it costs the price of a seat which is somewhere around $30. To you, you believe that you are getting, say, $200 value (for points marked as $200 for example). Within that range, the airline wins. Secondly, on average, FF miles are not actually used up beyond a benchmark figure of 30%. Airlines also have a number of tricks that use up or block the use of points. Thirdly, FF miles work best when the individual is consuming, but the company is paying. What FF miles are is essentially a bribe to the business traveller to insist on using their airline, when the traveller doesn't otherwise care. This separation of user from payer is cunning marketing, something that is employed by all the best companies (IBM were the past masters, now the crown has passed to M$. Odd that computing displays this domination amongst all industries...). Now, regardless of all this, you are right that these systems take on the nature of money if people suffer all these things and then continue to participate. What can stop these becoming real useful is several things: people working out that they are regularly over paying, taxation departments working out that the business traveller is taking an untaxed benefit, and various other hurdles. If you can manage to navigate that particular river stretch of crocs and snakes, then you might make money, to stretch a pun. However, if you are going to all that trouble, why not just start a real money? That's my real thesis. > I can get a tax deduction for > turning in some of these sorts of things to, say, > the Make A Wish Foundation. Well, not sure what to say about giving away your overpaid loyalty points. That makes for two charities, the Foundation and the Airline. > My university co-op > gives rebates based on purchase volume and in > cash, but there is no attempt to verify that the > purchaser is really the account holder if that > holder pays in cash. Oh, anonymity/untraceability/bearer status might be useful features, but that is only what they are, features. If our objective is to invent one with those features as requirement, then I think you will find a single purpose, centralised registry, poor convertability system as a really bad starting point. > For the longest time, > stamps could be used in place of coin for small > denomination mail order. Single system. Why did they stop? > Until security worries > required a named passenger, shuttle tickets > between Boston and NYC might as well have been > cash. We know why these have been stopped. For precisely reasons similar to the elimination of unknown activity, including monetary activity. Add this to the list of disadvantages of near money. > The Mass State Legislature only this past > week considered a bill that would make used > (non-winning) lottery tickets have a residual > cash value useful only at lottery agents (this as > an anti-litter thing). Ah, so this will be very interesting. So will there be an arbitrary limit placed on there to stop them being used as cash? Remember that cash itself dominates if you can more easily use cash rather than a handful of used lottery tickets. > My thinking -- enough near money and it will tend > to convertibility... Yes, that I agree with. But I fall short of saying that it reaches a useful level of convertibility. Looking forward to our loyalty systems session in March! Actually, I should mention that whilst I do not favour these systems for the above reasons, I do believe that in the study of them, we better understand how money works, much more so than if we were to simply study money, which is so completely lost in statal marketing these days as to be unfathomable in isolation. iang From vdomingo at medialabs.es Tue Dec 22 09:08:00 1998 From: vdomingo at medialabs.es (Victor Domingo - MediaLabs Comunicacion) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:08:00 +0800 Subject: Felices Fiestas Message-ID: <19981222171922.AAA13596@challenge.medialabs.es@mail.medialabs.es> Con mis mejores deseos de Felicidad y Prosperidad para el A�o Nuevo. V�ctor Domingo. Archivo Adjunto idea de mi amigo Antonio Montorio (http://villanos.net) _____________________ MediaLabs SuperMailer 2.5 http:\\www.medialabs.es\supermailer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00001.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 21017 bytes Desc: "reyesv.gif" URL: From ddt at ciphr.org Tue Dec 22 09:52:17 1998 From: ddt at ciphr.org (Dave Del Torto) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:52:17 +0800 Subject: mysterious PGP release-signing keys Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Please excuse the crosspost, but does anyone know *who* generated and/or owns these keys? 0xBB1EEF1B Verify 0xC8501551 Verify Key for http://www.arc.unm.edu/~drosoff/* 0xAA9AE13F Verify PGP 6.0.2 PP - RSA 0x772B7382 VERIFY They seem to be used for signing/verifying PGP releases (e.g. the 602 by CKT at Replay), but there's nothing on the keys that identifies the responsible engineer who compiled the source, nor do some of them seem to be certified by anyone in the WoT. Questions have been raised about the authenticity and security of those compiles and these keys. dave -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 Comment: Get interested in computers -- they're interested in YOU! iQA/AwUBNn11mJBN/qMowCmvEQI4IwCfad0S9Algw7PPDsgWChimC4Cx6dcAnjtu h2trwMi08tJMCD76W6W8DP/L =TFuT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 22 09:53:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:53:50 +0800 Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti Message-ID: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com> ..way too amusing.. Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. The Associated Press last Saturday transmitted a photograph of a 2,000-pound laser-guided bomb on the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in the Persian Gulf waiting to be loaded on F-14 and F-18 jet fighters. The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' ``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of thoughtless graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a piece of U.S. ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. ``Religious intolerance is an anathema to Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen and to all Americans who cherish the right to worship freely,'' he added. ``The United States deeply respects Islam. We are grateful for our good relations with Arab and Islamic peoples, and we appreciate the important contributions of Muslim-Americans to the U.S. military and to our nation as a whole. ``I know our people in uniform respect and appreciate religious practices different from their own. This incident is a rare exception that does not reflect American policy or values.'' From xasper8d at lobo.net Tue Dec 22 10:44:17 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:44:17 +0800 Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti In-Reply-To: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com> Message-ID: <000701be2dd4$89fb0a40$03000004@ibm> ~> Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti ~> Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST ~> ~> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were ~> distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy ~> month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. What's the 90's PC war cry? Go ahead and nuke 'em, just don't be insensitive about it. How much will it cost U.S. taxpayers when the US Navy and Pentagon duke it out over freedom of religion vs. freedom of speech? I personally am offended by grey, so I'll kindly request that any bombs thrown at me be painted in a primary color. Anyone else? X From jya at pipeline.com Tue Dec 22 10:44:24 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:44:24 +0800 Subject: Trust in Cyberspace Message-ID: <199812221816.NAA22485@smtp0.mindspring.com> We offer the National Academy of Sciences September 1998 report, "Trust in Cyberspace," a 243-page survey of all security issues and technologies associated with the Internet and computer networks: http://jya.com/tic-intro.htm (Introduction only, 58K) http://jya.com/tic.htm (Full report, 882K) http://jya.com/tic.zip (Full report zipped, 302K) The report reviews prior studies such as the CRISIS report on cryptography, the PCCIP report on protecting US infrastructure, the DoD report on Information Warfare - Defense, and several others, assesses those findings in greater depth, looks at technology and research needed, and recommends what government (NSA and DARPA) and private industry/eduation should do to assure security. NSA is upbraided for its opposition to strong cryptography and culture of overcontrolling secrecy. NSA's R2 research unit is singled out as needing to find ways to compete with industry for the best talent so that the agency's skills and tools do not lag the world market. From maxinux at openpgp.net Tue Dec 22 11:03:00 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:03:00 +0800 Subject: [mitnick] on another note .. (fwd) Message-ID: No introduction needed... --Max ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:25:40 +0100 X-Loop: openpgp.net From: Tor Fosheim Reply-To: mitnick at 2600.com To: mitnick at 2600.com Subject: [mitnick] on another note .. The Highest court in Norway has freed a computer engineer from Norman Data Defense Systems from charges relating to a computer break-in at the University of Oslo in 1995. It acknowledged the fact that he broke in through a security hole, but said it was not illegal for him to do so. The court said that anyone who makes their computers available on the internet should be prepared for the machines to accept "requests for information contained on it". Ie, if its not protected well enough -- its the owner of the machine who is to blame. Tor From moya at navigo.com Tue Dec 22 11:06:07 1998 From: moya at navigo.com (Ian Moya) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:06:07 +0800 Subject: MCI hit with encryption virus [CNN] (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199812221332.HAA06736@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199812221943.NAA08478@www.navigo.com> Anyone else find it interesting that the release for this outside of NAI press release was at CNN/fn and not CNN's tech section? The stock shot up 6 and 3/8 on the news. Pretty nice Christmas bonus to say the least. Couple other more timely and detailed notes on the event: http://www.ilhawaii.net/webnews/wed/aq/Nd55_38.html http://www.ilhawaii.net/webnews/wed/dm/Nd55_51.html Also a local TV station (Austin) on the 5pm news last night had some official working on this fiasco quoted as saying that this was the first large case of "cyberterrorism" that he had encountered. I hope the national media doesn't start goose stepping to that account things; otherwise, expect this and related events to be cited by CIAO and other gubment offices in their initiatives next year to round up network incident response teams nationally and globally. http://www.ciao.gov/ http://www.pccip.gov/ moya -- a Navigo farmer Have an New Millenium- > Forwarded message: > >From owner-cypherpunks at ssz.com Tue Dec 22 07:32:13 1998 > From: Jim Choate > Subject: MCI hit with encryption virus [CNN] > To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:31:11 -0600 (CST) > > > X-within-URL: http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/9812/21/virus_pkg/ > > > From Correspondent Bruce Francis > > December 21, 1998: 7:56 p.m. ET > > > July 30, 1998 Network Associates MCI WorldCom More Quotes.... Network > > Associates Anti-virus Research Center NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Employees > > at MCI WorldCom were confronted with a science fiction scenario made > > cold fact on Monday when a computer virus struck the company's > > sprawling network, encrypting and destroying files. > > [INLINE] To make things worse, virus consultants Network Associates > > (NETA) say that the virus -- called "Remote Explorer" -- is unlike > > any other and may be the smartest, most dangerous computer bug to > > date. > > [text deleted] From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 22 11:14:18 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:14:18 +0800 Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti In-Reply-To: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com> Message-ID: At 9:23 AM -0800 12/22/98, Anonymous wrote: > Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti >Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST > >The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a >Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' > >``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of thoughtless >graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a piece of U.S. >ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief Pentagon spokesman >Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. But of course. How else could it be? It is OK to kill people, but not OK to hurt their feelings. (BTW, the military has bowed to pressures from Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition. "Black Operations" have been renamed "Operations of Color.") --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From jim at acm.org Tue Dec 22 11:22:11 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:22:11 +0800 Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti Message-ID: <367FEC2E.DC94D311@acm.org> ~> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were ~> distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy ~> month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. xasper8d writes: > What's the 90's PC war cry? Go ahead and nuke 'em, just don't be > insensitive about it. While I also would be more offended by someone bombing me into a thin film of viscera and connective tissue than by having them ridicule my beliefs, I think the Pentagon was more concerned about the effect on our allies in the Gulf. The recent bombing was an attack against the Iraqi military and leadership rather than on Islam, and having that graffito get big airplay could offend other countries that we'd prefer not to offend. So while they looked silly complaining about the Ramadan reference, they'd have looked worse if they'd passed it off with a shrug and/or another ethnic or religious slur. There is of course a long tradition of personalizing ordnance; ISTR that the bomb in Dr. Strangelove had more of a message than just its megatonnage. -- Jim Gillogly Sterday, 2 Yule S.R. 1999, 18:50 12.19.5.14.5, 11 Chicchan 18 Mac, Sixth Lord of Night From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 22 12:14:01 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:14:01 +0800 Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti In-Reply-To: <367FEC2E.DC94D311@acm.org> Message-ID: At 10:59 AM -0800 12/22/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >~> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were >~> distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy >~> month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. > >xasper8d writes: >> What's the 90's PC war cry? Go ahead and nuke 'em, just don't be >> insensitive about it. > >While I also would be more offended by someone bombing me into a >thin film of viscera and connective tissue than by having them >ridicule my beliefs, I think the Pentagon was more concerned about >the effect on our allies in the Gulf. The recent bombing was an >attack against the Iraqi military and leadership rather than on >Islam, and having that graffito get big airplay could offend other >countries that we'd prefer not to offend. So while they looked >silly complaining about the Ramadan reference, they'd have looked >worse if they'd passed it off with a shrug and/or another ethnic >or religious slur. We bombed during "Bombadan" to send the ragheads a message. I thought this was obvious to all. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 22 12:14:03 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:14:03 +0800 Subject: alternative b-money creation In-Reply-To: <199812140427.AA12697@world.std.com> Message-ID: At 10:28 AM -0500 on 12/22/98, Ian Grigg wrote: > This is the Hiawatha Hours, as I rudely called them > (I keep forgetting the name, sorry). Now, these are > working systems. They are more or less the same as > the LETS systems, which are sort of successful in many > hundreds of places. Ithaca Hours. They like LETS, are based, more or less, on Marx's "Labor Theory of Value". 'nuff said, I figure. Stupid is as stupid does, to quote a famous Alabaman... :-). Cheers, RAH ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From measl at mfn.org Tue Dec 22 12:47:38 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:47:38 +0800 Subject: Graffitti or National Policy? Message-ID: HEY, REEZA! ARE YOU *LISTENING* ??? ----- Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST ::WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were ::distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy ::month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. Next time, the CIC demands that you put *more* thought into it... ::The Associated Press last Saturday transmitted a photograph of a ::2,000-pound laser-guided bomb on the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in ::the Persian Gulf waiting to be loaded on F-14 and F-18 jet fighters. Of course, they didn't mind the *bomb* being televised, only the graffitti :-/ ::The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a ::Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' Reeza, why wasn't *your* Ramadan Missive there? ::``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of ::thoughtless graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a ::piece of U.S. ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief ::Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. Yeah, it's perfectly OK to bomb them during Ramadan (for their own good of course), but not to actually *acknowledge* it... ::``Religious intolerance is an anathema to Secretary of Defense ::William S. Cohen and to all Americans who cherish the right to worship ::freely,'' he added. Unless you (a) happen to be Arabic [aside: The odds that an Arabic male is depicted as dirty, bad, untrustworthy, etc, in any motion pic emanating from the US? A: 19 in 20 {harpers}] (b) happen to live in any territory currently occupied by any puppet of the USG (Israel comes immediately to mind, but lets face it, there's plenty of others), (c) don't agree with every single thing the USG/POTUS has done for the last 200++ years... :: ``The United States deeply respects Islam. We are grateful for ::our good relations with Arab and Islamic peoples, We are especially grateful that they so freely allow us to bomb their men women and children whenever we get bored or involved in any domestic issue that might embarrass the USG/POTUS/IRS/NSA/etc... Or when we aren't sure that a new weapon technology is actually "Ready For Prime Time"... :: and we appreciate the ::important contributions of Muslim-Americans to the U.S. military and to ::our nation as a whole. See above :-/ ::``I know our people in uniform respect and appreciate religious ::practices different from their own. Exactly! What Mr. Rickenberg *meant* to say was "Merry Christmas", right? :: This incident is a rare exception that does not :: reflect American policy or values.'' The bombing/starving/massacring of innocent civilians, or the graffitti that didn't have enough thought in it? Isn't it amazing how the military hates having their laundry aired in public??? Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Tue Dec 22 12:53:11 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:53:11 +0800 Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti In-Reply-To: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812222020.MAA26845@smtp.well.com> Guess folks in WWII shouldn't have been calling the enemy "Krauts." Now it's okay to slaughter Iraqis -- but we can't make fun of them. These are odd times. -Declan At 06:23 PM 12-22-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >..way too amusing.. > > > Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti >Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST > >WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were >distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy >month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. > >The Associated Press last Saturday transmitted a photograph of a >2,000-pound laser-guided bomb on the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in the >Persian Gulf waiting to be loaded on F-14 and F-18 jet fighters. > >The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a >Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' > >``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of thoughtless >graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a piece of U.S. >ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief Pentagon spokesman >Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. > >``Religious intolerance is an anathema to Secretary of Defense William S. >Cohen and to all Americans who cherish the right to worship freely,'' he >added. ``The United States deeply respects Islam. We are grateful for our >good relations with Arab and Islamic peoples, and we appreciate the >important contributions of Muslim-Americans to the U.S. military and to our >nation as a whole. > >``I know our people in uniform respect and appreciate religious practices >different from their own. This incident is a rare exception that does not >reflect American policy or values.'' > > > > > > > > > From measl at mfn.org Tue Dec 22 12:55:26 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:55:26 +0800 Subject: Returned post for press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com (fwd) Message-ID: They are using the EzMLM Pgm??? What does *that* tell you??? Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 22 Dec 1998 15:51:33 -0000 From: press-english-technical-help at lists.datafellows.com To: measl at mfn.org Subject: Returned post for press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com mailing list. I'm sorry, the list moderators have failed to act on your post. Thus, I'm returning it to you. If you feel that this is in error, please repost the message or contact a list moderator directly. --- Enclosed, please find the message you sent. To: cypherpunks at toad.com, Marita Nasman-Repo , pirkka.palomaki at DataFellows.com, ari.hypponen at DataFellows.com Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security Partners Program From: Missouri FreeNet Administration Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:23:32 -0600 (CST) cc: press-pr at lists.datafellows.com, df-pr-us at lists.datafellows.com, press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com, press-english-general at lists.datafellows.com Delivered-To: moderator for press-english-technical at lists.datafellows.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981215170136.0098ad60 at smtp.datafellows.com> Posted-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:23:32 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Marita Nasman-Repo Blathered: :Helsinki, Finland, December 15, 1998-- Data Fellows, the global leader in :developing data security software solutions, has been invited to join the :Microsoft Security Partners Program. "Invited"? You mean they finally accepted your application, right? :The Microsoft Security Partners Program :(http://www.microsoft.com/security/partners) provides customers with the :tools and information they need to establish, test and maintain effective :information security for their computing infrastructure. By providing real-life examples of how NOT to implement security practices. By simply purchasing these failed products (at only *slightly* exhorbitant prices), so can learn by example: see for yourself just how easy it is to completely botch a security directive. Witness how thoroughly you can mangle password encryption. Learn what major design flaws *really* look like! :The program brings :together software manufacturers, security consultants and security :trainers, making it even easier for customers to provide robust security in :their Microsoft Windows NT operating system-based networks. Just as soon as it becomes available? Oh, BTW, when *will* that be??? :Three Data Fellows products are included in the Microsoft Security Partners :Program. I'm sorry. But don't worry, if you keep working on it, you'll be able to sell it to a *real* vendor someday... :F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection :and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption, Very unobtrusive, I'm sure! Does the attacker even know it's there? : all :integrated into a policy-based management architecture. Hmmm... Somebody's been playing with their buzzword-generator again :) :F-Secure VPN+ :provides a software-based, IPSec/IKE VPN solution scaleable for large :corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks. Was that IPSec/IKE, or IPSec-like? I vote for the latter. It's just like IPSec, but without wasting all those nasty cycles on dumb things - like encryption: it's *so much* more user-friendly when it doesnt [further] slow the speed of new window open/closes... : F-Secure :FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time :encryption directly into the Windows NT-based file system. Could be, we already know that Micro$loth has *no clue* when it comes to these things (Right Paul???)... :"Microsoft is pleased to include Data Fellows as part of its Security :Partners Program," said Karan Khanna, Windows NT Security Product Manager :at Microsoft Corp. Of course you are. Micro$loth would be pleased to welcome Joseph Stalin into the Security Partners Program. : "This program will help our mutual customers develop and :deploy secure solutions built on the Windows NT platform." Just as soon as they can get Windows NT to run faster than a 6809 with 1k of 512ns RAM and a single parallel port for IO ;-) :"The relationship with Microsoft shows Data Fellows� commitment to improve :the native security of standalone and networked computers with a :comprehensive, centrally managed suite of security services," said Risto :Siilasmaa, president and CEO of Data Fellows. You're *that* worried about Micro$loth's current offerings, huh? Personally, I'd let them fend for themselves, but... :"Data Fellows is committed to :providing globally available And this *IS* your *FIRST* priority, isn't it? :seamless security for Windows users; security :that is strong yet easy to manage and economical." Great! Let me know when it's available! :Data Fellows is one of the world�s leading developers of data security :products. Really? Who decided that? Do you have any research to back up this awe-inspiring claim? : The company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data :security and cryptography software products for corporate computer :networks. That's only because most of the private networks already know better. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From measl at mfn.org Tue Dec 22 13:04:04 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 05:04:04 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981222230204.03b51100@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Reeza! blathered thusly: :>*WHY* is it any of our business whether he owns weapons of *any* kind? WE :>own them, and we USE them: Does this give other nations the right to :>embargo us, and to bomb us into oblivion if we refuse to allow THEM to :>tell US what to do? :> :>Our concern for his weaponry should only be an issue *IF* he uses them, as :>with *OUR* weaponry. Yours is the classical anti-gun argument, and it's :>no more effective at the international level than at the state level. : :This would be a valid argument, if he had not already sanctioned Kuwait. :OOPS. Did you forget that? Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous euphemisms) any soveriegn State? What good for the goose is not good for the gander? I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry or lack thereof? :Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are :to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different :character than it is in Iraq now isn't it??? Yes indeed. In these two countries we were there only to watch over the slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves. Mustv'e ruined your Military Day (tm), huh Reeza? :>:Reeza! :>:DH Key available on request :>Note that your DH Key is a "munition"... Shouldn't you be "qualified" to :>have it by the USG - strictly for the safety of the world, of course... :> :>Yours, :>J.A. Terranson :>sysadmin at mfn.org : :well J.A., my DH Key is just as much a "munition" as my house key, legal :definitions not-withstanding. I see the law means much to you. This why you joined the military? Or is it that they wouldn't take you over at James Bond School? :The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. : : : "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." : : -- my older sister She must've heard your "Eat my military shorts" comment... Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From howree at cable.navy.mil Tue Dec 22 14:03:40 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:03:40 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981222230204.03b51100@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223061138.00acf7b0@205.83.192.13> At 02:29 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: > >On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Reeza! blathered thusly: Cute. >Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous >euphemisms) any soveriegn State? What good for the goose is not good for >the gander? I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry >or lack thereof? Perhaps if you cited a few examples, your counter-point would have some weight. >:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are >:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different >:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it??? >Yes indeed. In these two countries we were there only to watch over the >slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves. Mustv'e ruined your Military >Day (tm), huh Reeza? (yawn) not really. Actually, any involvement we have with the UN gets on my nerves. Interesting, the way you ignore the differences between "internal conflict" and "aggression against a sovereign neighbor". >:well J.A., my DH Key is just as much a "munition" as my house key, legal >:definitions not-withstanding. > >I see the law means much to you. This why you joined the military? Or is >it that they wouldn't take you over at James Bond School? There is Law, then there is law. Much has been said about both on this list. I think you are chastizing me for criticizing a Bad Law. Since I haven't broken any Laws by offering to send my public key to anyone who requests it, I wonder why you even bring it up. >:The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. >: >: >: "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." >: >: -- my older sister > >She must've heard your "Eat my military shorts" comment... I'll tell her you said that,,, I bet she laughs at you too. ;) Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 22 16:21:18 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:21:18 +0800 Subject: CL: PJ O'Rourke on economic books & Hayek Message-ID: My only exception to this rule is "Investments", by Sharpe, which, unfortunately, isn't for the innumerate. :-). Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:56:45 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: CL: PJ O'Rourke on economic books & Hayek To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Current Literature << -- economics / humor "A NOTE ABOUT THE BIBLIOGRAPHY There isn't one. I'm too lazy. And who ever heard of humor with footnotes? But there are certain books which I found crucial to a neophyte student of economics, especially if (and I mean no insult to the texts by this) that student is uninformed, innumerate, light-minded, and a big goof-off. In other words, these are the books to read if you want to know something about economics but have never gotten further into the subject than figuring out a trifecta at Belmont: _Free to Choose_ and _Capitalism and Freedom_ by Milton and Rose Friedman ,,, _The Road to Serfdom_ by Friedrich A. Hayek ,,, _The Armchair Economist by Steven E. Landsburg ,,, There are certain books you should avoid, such as anything with the words Investment and Success in the title and everything ever written by John Kenneth Galbraith ,,," P. J. O'Rourke, _Eat the Rich: A Treatise On Economics_. New York: Atlantic Monthly Press. 1998. pp. xvi-xvi. Current Literature is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 22 18:37:02 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:37:02 +0800 Subject: Advanced Crypto Graduate Course Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:00:31 -0500 (EST) From: Christof Paar To: "WPI.Crypto.Seminar":; cc: DCSB Subject: Advanced Crypto Graduate Course Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Reply-To: Christof Paar Please find below an announcement for the Crypto II graduate course. I'll be happy to answer any question about the course contents. For registration questions, please contact WPI's Graduate Admission Office at "gao at wpi.edu". Regards, Christof *********************************************************************** Christof Paar, Assistant Professor Cryptography and Information Security (CRIS) Group ECE Dept., WPI, 100 Institute Rd., Worcester, MA 01609, USA fon: (508) 831 5061 email: christof at ece.wpi.edu fax: (508) 831 5491 www: http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html *********************************************************************** >>> WORKSHOP ON CRYPTOGRAPHIC HARDWARE AND EMBEDDED SYSTEMS (CHES) <<< >>> WPI, August 12 & 13, 1999 <<< >>> check http://ece.wpi.edu/Research/crypt/ches <<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------ EE 579R, ADVANCED TOPICS IN CRYPTOGRAPHY Spring `99 Semester WPI, Thursdays, 5:30-8:30pm, AK219 First day of class: January 21 COURSE DESCRIPTION The course is a continuation of EE 578/CS 578, Cryptography and Data Security. It will provide a deeper insight into several areas of cryptology which are of great practical and theoretical importance. One focus of the course is on techniques for efficient software and (to a somewhat lesser extend) hardware implementations for public-key algorithms. The second focus is on attacks against public-key schemes, which is fundamental for an in-depth understanding of the choice of practical algorithms. Many techniques will be introduced which are usually only treated in the research literature. SYLLABUS Week 1: Introduction Overview on practical public-key algorithms and efficient implementation techniques. Efficient implementation of RSA: The Chinese Remainder Theorem. Week 2: Selected public-key algorithms Review of the generalized discrete logarithm problem and elliptic curve cryptosystems. Week 3: Efficient Implementation Introduction to long number arithmetic. Week 4: Efficient Implementation Fast modular reduction algorithms. Week 5: Efficient Implementation Fast inversion algorithms. Week 6: Efficient Implementation Efficient exponentiation algorithms. Week 7 Midterm Exam Week 8: Attacks Attacking DL systems: Baby-step giant-step method and Pollard's rho method. Week 9: Attacks Attacking DL systems: Parallelization of Pollard's rho method. Week 10 Topics TBA, depending on student interest. Possibilities are: Index-calculus attack, differential cryptanalysis, correlation attacks, modern block cipher design, Galois field arithmetic. Week 11 as week 10 lecture Week 12: Student presentations Week 13: Student presentations Week 14 Final Exam. TEXTBOOKS A. Menezes, P. van Oorschot, S. Vanstone: Handbook of Applied Cryptography. CRC Press. (primary, mandatory) D. Stinson, Cryptography: Theory and Practice. CRC Press, 1995. (recommended) PREREQUISITES The knowledge of the material of EE 578/CS 578, Cryptography and Data Security, is assumed (in particular with respect to public-key algorithms). In addition, some experience with the C programming language is required. *********************************************************************** Christof Paar, Assistant Professor Cryptography and Information Security (CRIS) Group ECE Dept., WPI, 100 Institute Rd., Worcester, MA 01609, USA fon: (508) 831 5061 email: christof at ece.wpi.edu fax: (508) 831 5491 www: http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html *********************************************************************** >>> WORKSHOP ON CRYPTOGRAPHIC HARDWARE AND EMBEDDED SYSTEMS (CHES) <<< >>> WPI, August 12 & 13, 1999 <<< >>> check http://ece.wpi.edu/Research/crypt/ches <<< For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From measl at mfn.org Tue Dec 22 18:58:19 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:58:19 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981223061138.00acf7b0@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote: :Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:11:38 +1000 :From: Reeza! :To: Missouri FreeNet Administration :Cc: Jukka E Isosaari , Joel O'Connor , : mib , cypherpunks at toad.com :Subject: Re: I must admit. . . : :At 02:29 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: :> :>On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Reeza! blathered thusly: : :Cute. : :>Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous :>euphemisms) any soveriegn State? What good for the goose is not good for :>the gander? I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry :>or lack thereof? : :Perhaps if you cited a few examples, your counter-point would have some :weight. How about Iraq itself??? :>:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are :>:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different :>:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it??? :>Yes indeed. In these two countries we were there only to watch over the :>slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves. Mustv'e ruined your Military :>Day (tm), huh Reeza? : :(yawn) not really. Actually, any involvement we have with the UN gets on my :nerves. Interesting, the way you ignore the differences between "internal :conflict" and "aggression against a sovereign neighbor". I don't see any difference when *we* are the ones injecting ourselves into it. Why don't you point them out to me? Yours, J.A. Terranson A *thinking* citizen of the United States Of America - damn few of us left... From hermit at citrus.infi.net Tue Dec 22 19:25:02 1998 From: hermit at citrus.infi.net (Tiny) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:25:02 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST' Message-ID: <36806A08.E9E3BEC1@citrus.infi.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I`m sorry to ask such a stupid question. Is 'TEMPEST' an acronym, and if so, what exactly does it represent? Thank you, T -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNoBpaEiyQsorYRwzEQJFcgCghbCaE79bC5GeMtImqlmHmbs+aBUAnRZf ybJguQDd6XMo7g3YeBhTkCNB =RN0b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Erik P. Sonnwald Public key available via public keyservers. Fingerprint: 6205 7AF1 1874 6CA5 F705 6C40 48B2 42CA 2B61 1C33 From tcmay at got.net Tue Dec 22 20:04:11 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:04:11 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST' In-Reply-To: <36806A08.E9E3BEC1@citrus.infi.net> Message-ID: At 7:56 PM -0800 12/22/98, Tiny wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >I`m sorry to ask such a stupid question. Is 'TEMPEST' an acronym, and >if so, what >exactly does it represent? It was not originated as an acronym, though some have labored to find the words to make it one, sort of. Best to treat it as not being an acronym. It's a set of specs and testing methods for measuring and controlling RF emissions by computers and other electronic equipment. Shielding with metal enclosures, with filters on inputs and outputs, and so on. The full TEMPEST specs are more or less classified, as might be expected. (Because one does not lightly tell one's enemies what one is measuring for.) Contrary to popular rumor, it is not "illegal" to shield computers, to "use TEMPEST methods," as it were. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From jim_finder at hotmail.com Tue Dec 22 21:07:50 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:07:50 +0800 Subject: Good archive of AES algorithms? Message-ID: <19981223044817.18194.qmail@hotmail.com> Thanks to everyone who responded to me on the AES archive. Most people pointed me to the counterpane.com web site, which is very nice and well done, and answers most of my questions. Unfortunately, though, Counterpane itself is one of the candidates, so the site may not exactly be unbiased. Is there any site with a similar scope being run by a disinterested party? Thanks again! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mgraffam at idsi.net Tue Dec 22 21:28:11 1998 From: mgraffam at idsi.net (mgraffam at idsi.net) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:28:11 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST' In-Reply-To: <36806A08.E9E3BEC1@citrus.infi.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Tiny wrote: > I`m sorry to ask such a stupid question. Is 'TEMPEST' an acronym, and > if so, what > exactly does it represent? Some have turned it into an acronyms. Originally it was just a code-word referring to emanations security. See http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.html Of interest: "..the isle is full of noises, sounds and sweet airs that give delight and hurt not. Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments will hum about mine ears, and sometimes voices.." >From Shakespeare's "The Tempest" .. the benefits of a liberal education. Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam at idsi.net) "Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine." Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience" From nobody at replay.com Tue Dec 22 21:32:11 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:32:11 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812230509.GAA11006@replay.com> "kryz" crapped: > > Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="YEAR.EXE" > *STOP* sending such *RATSHIT* to this mailing list you unforgivable dickheaded *SACK OF SHIT* Keep your fucking .EXE files to yourself. *SMASH YOURSELF* on the head with your nice little m$-windoze manuals. At least that would knock you unconscious and you won't be bothering us with your *BLATHERING CRAP*. *WE DO NOT WANT WINDOZE CRAP* on this list, you *RABIDDOGWHOREMONGER* can you get that through that *FUCKIN THICK* skull of yours? From brownrk1 at texaco.com Wed Dec 23 06:17:55 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:17:55 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST' Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE20313FB44@MSX11002> Tim May wrote: > The full TEMPEST specs are more or less classified, as might > be expected. (Because one does not lightly tell one's enemies > what one is measuring for.) > Contrary to popular rumor, it is not "illegal" to shield > computers, to "use TEMPEST methods," as it were. Rather hard to see how it could be, given that the details are supposed to be secret! If all of a sudden you got arrested for wrapping wet towels around screens that would be a Big Clue.... (of course that assumes you live in a country where you get told what you;ve been arrested for. Hmmmm....) Ken From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Wed Dec 23 06:17:58 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:17:58 +0800 Subject: Polish Telecommunications Message-ID: <3680ED67.4603C835@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Polish Telecommunications [Telekomunikacja Polska, TP S.A..] I went to Polish Telecommunications on the 21/12/1998 [na ul. Zamenhoffa w Warszawie - on Zamenhoff St. in Warsaw] and inquired what was being done about the Millennium Bug. What I got from a medium important chief was that there was an article not long ago about it, the name of the journal escapes me. She seemed pretty angry that I even asked about it. What made me angry was that she didn't know what was the bloody problem. Total ignorance. But I guess Polish Telecommunications are going to get a kick out it when the year 2000 finally does arrive. Later, Jan Dobrucki a.k.a. jdo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt Comment: "Information is Ammunition" Comment: KeyID: 0x49281659 Comment: Fingerprint: F220 3529 2B65 FA9C F4DF 5F02 11ED D8BB iQEVAwUBNn+aCGiR2plJKBZZAQH3twf7BohEfDHGV+mpMILXcY9xGg3E7ZQJrYIz rLqVDFXwBjmxu+dyGetY05fsUSZRM/uWLpUcyY8rnIoQ/EngXfycrQ8iIHrUVQxD Jtbfd7JDV1h3XzM0s90LINTvVlCtHCcWTpjzqsOpkMKHiA9NjdpWO+lKphgekHAH gB15//qPDdtjOv9f4uzs1wonaGWU+sco8EZozGgO3NDZ3qW/rUtl+TmnmvnLXpFi xPgaZnozQajAO/Bls7SH7oT9BJSEV4+JMUQmNRi61BolOvFE1Io2MUpBjHuCOCii bHIX+9r3yAfJv+LmVgV61dSIWZIi3npo2yMD72nFtQFTwDrB+cLjTg== =7cUG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 06:27:06 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:27:06 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty Message-ID: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com> In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies. Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification? The other option is to just lie, it says the penalty is that of perjury and it seems we shall soon have case law that perjury is no longer a crime. Not a facetious post, I have seen posts here on this before, but never really paid attention because it didn't affect me. If no answers, I will resort to a search engine. But I thought this letter would get me better quality advice. Thanks From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Wed Dec 23 06:31:41 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:31:41 +0800 Subject: New synonym for GAK Message-ID: <91441354017946@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Another one to add to the list: >U.S. approves export of crypto product without key recovery > >EE Times >(12/22/98, 4:13 p.m. EDT) > >RICHARDSON, Texas. Network security specialists ODS Networks Inc. has won >government approval to export its strong encryption products to companies in >42 countries without a government-backed key recovery feature. > >ODS said it is the first U.S. company to receive a blanket export license >from the Department of Commerce to ship its crypto product. The government >strictly controls the export of encryption products with a key-recovery >feature and key lengths of 112, 128 or 1,024 bits. > >The ODS products use an alternate "stream recovery" feature that allows users >to protect encrypted data. The company said its stream recovery scheme helps >resolve conflicting requirements for privacy and monitoring. > >ODS said its objective was to introduce a monitoring capability that protects >the rights of innocent third parties in criminal investigations. Their PR which was sent to several crypto mailing lists earlier today was conveniently cut off just before the GAK paragraph (and in any case they weren't lying, just being economical with the truth). Peter. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 23 06:45:52 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:45:52 +0800 Subject: Context Magazine interviews with Moore, Metcalfe, and Coase Message-ID: Well, I don't know about *heroes*. I mean, Tom Swift, or the Grey Lensman, were *heroes*, right? ;-). Still these are some good interviews, in complete keeping with the topic of my last pico-rant. Metcalfe talks about micromoney, even what looks, facially, like a georecursive market. Sans digital bearer transaction settlement, of course, but they'll all learn... :-). Also note where Coase guess that transaction costs (not just settlement and clearing, but the whole information enchelada of finding products, etc.) might come to 45% of GDP, or $4.5 trillion for the US alone. Stuff like that is why I say that digital bearer transactions will be the dominant value transfer technology of the coming geodesic economy. Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text From: Somebody To: Bob Hettinga Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:11:14 "GMT" Subject: Somebody has recommended a CONTEXT Magazine article to you Somebody sent you this article from CONTEXT Magazine (http://www.contextmag.com) Note: ----------------------------- A short interview with three of your heroes. Merry Christmas! ----------------------------- http://www.contextmag.com/archives/199809/lawAndDisorder.asp We hope you enjoy it. CONTEXT Magazine --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From declan at well.com Wed Dec 23 07:08:32 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:08:32 +0800 Subject: Polish Telecommunications In-Reply-To: <3680ED67.4603C835@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> Message-ID: <199812231428.GAA03593@smtp.well.com> Jan, Last week I did a USIA (think Voice of America) video broadcast to Poland, and delivered a speech to Polish journalists about Y2K. The consensus among them and the US embassy staffers who facilitated the discussion was that bigger companies might be okay and smaller ones wouldn't. But since (the journalists told me) the Polish people are used to hardship, it wouldn't be as big of a deal as it would be in the US. Best, Declan Washington, DC At 02:17 PM 12-23-98 +0100, Jan Dobrucki wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Polish Telecommunications [Telekomunikacja Polska, TP S.A..] > >I went to Polish Telecommunications on the 21/12/1998 >[na ul. Zamenhoffa w Warszawie - on Zamenhoff St. in Warsaw] >and inquired what was being done about the Millennium Bug. >What I got from a medium important chief was that there was an >article not long ago about it, the name of the journal escapes me. >She seemed pretty angry that I even asked about it. What made >me angry was that she didn't know what was the bloody problem. >Total ignorance. But I guess Polish Telecommunications are >going to get a kick out it when the year 2000 finally does arrive. > >Later, >Jan Dobrucki a.k.a. jdo > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt >Comment: "Information is Ammunition" >Comment: KeyID: 0x49281659 >Comment: Fingerprint: F220 3529 2B65 FA9C F4DF 5F02 11ED D8BB > >iQEVAwUBNn+aCGiR2plJKBZZAQH3twf7BohEfDHGV+mpMILXcY9xGg3E7ZQJrYIz >rLqVDFXwBjmxu+dyGetY05fsUSZRM/uWLpUcyY8rnIoQ/EngXfycrQ8iIHrUVQxD >Jtbfd7JDV1h3XzM0s90LINTvVlCtHCcWTpjzqsOpkMKHiA9NjdpWO+lKphgekHAH >gB15//qPDdtjOv9f4uzs1wonaGWU+sco8EZozGgO3NDZ3qW/rUtl+TmnmvnLXpFi >xPgaZnozQajAO/Bls7SH7oT9BJSEV4+JMUQmNRi61BolOvFE1Io2MUpBjHuCOCii >bHIX+9r3yAfJv+LmVgV61dSIWZIi3npo2yMD72nFtQFTwDrB+cLjTg== >=7cUG >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From T.Gawlick at secunet.de Wed Dec 23 07:58:46 1998 From: T.Gawlick at secunet.de (Gawlick, Thomas) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:58:46 +0800 Subject: First call for papers Message-ID: Hi everyone ! Please find the attached first call for papers for a new international forum for information security. We apologize if you have multiple receipts of this message. We wish you all a joyous Holiday Season and a Happy New Year! secunet Security Networks GmbH CQRE - Team First CALL FOR PAPERS -------------------------------------- CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress -------------------------------------------------------- Nov. 30 - Dec. 2, 1999, Duesseldorf, Germany CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress provides a new international forum giving a close-up view on information security in the context of rapidly evolving economic processes. The unprecedented reliance on computer technology has transformed the previous technical side-issue "information security" to a management problem requiring decisions of strategic importance. Hence, the targeted audience represents decision makers from government, industry, commercial, and academic communities. If you are concerned with solutions relating to the protection of your country�s information infrastructure or a commercial enterprise, consider submitting a paper to the CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress. We are looking for papers and panel discussions covering: * ELECTRONIC COMMERCE * CORPORATE SECURITY --------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- - new business processes - access control - secure business transactions - secure teleworking - online merchandising - enterprise key management - electronic payment / banking - IT-audit - innovative applications - risk / disaster management * NETWORK SECURITY - security awareness and training --------------------------------------------- - implementation, accreditation, - virtual private networks and operation of secure systems - security aspects in internet in a government, business, or utilization industry environment - security aspects in multi- * SECURITY TECHNOLOGY media-applications -------------------------------------------------- - intrusion detection systems - cryptography * LEGAL ASPECTS - public key infrastructures ------------------------------ - chip card technology - digital signature acts - biometrics - privacy and anonymity * TRUST MANAGEMENT - crypto regulation -------------------------------------------------- - liability - evaluation of products and systems - international harmonization of security evaluation criteria * STANDARDIZATION * FUTURE PERSPECTIVES Any other contribution addressing the involving of IT security in economic processes will also be welcome. Authors are invited to submit an extended abstract of their contribution to the program chair. The submissions should be original research results, survey articles or "high quality" case studies and position papers. Product advertisements are welcome for presentation, but will not be considered for the proceedings. Manuscripts must be in English, and not more than 2.000 words. The extended abstracts should be in a form suitable for anonymous review, without author's names, affiliations, acknowledgements or obvious references. Contributions must not be submitted in parallel to any conference or workshop that has proceedings. Separately, an abstract of the paper with no more than 200 words and with title, name and addresses (incl. an E-mail address) of the authors may be submitted. In case of multiple authors the contacting author must be clearly identified. We strongly encourage electronic submission in Postscript format. The submissions must be in 11pt format, use standard fonts or include the necessary fonts. Proposals for panel discussions should also be sent to the program chair. Panels of interest include those that present alternative/controversial viewpoints or those that encourage lively discussions of relevant issues. Panels that are collections of unrefereed papers will not be considered. Panel proposals should be a minimum of one page describing the subject matter, the appropriateness of the panel for this conference and should identify participants and their respective viewpoints. MAILING LIST: -------------------------------------- If you want to receive emails with subsequent Call for Papers and registration information, please send a brief mail to cqre at secunet.de. WEB SITE: -------------------------------------- Up to date information about CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress will be available at http://www.secunet.de/Forum/cqre.html IMPORTANT DATES: -------------------------------------- - Deadline for submission of extended abstracts May 14, 1999 - Deadline for submission of panel proposals June 1, 1999 - Notification of acceptance June 25, 1999 - Deadline for submission of complete papers July 30, 1999 PROGRAM COMMITTEE: -------------------------------------- Johannes Buchmann (TU Darmstadt) Dirk Fox (Secorvo) Walter Fumy (Siemens) R�diger Grimm (GMD) Helena Handschuh (ENST/Gemplus) Thomas Hoeren (Uni Muenster) Pil Joong Lee (POSTECH) Alfred Menezes (U.of Waterloo / Certicom) David Naccache (Gemplus) Clifford Neumann (USC) Mike Reiter (Bell Labs) Matt Robshaw (RSA) Richard Schlechter (EU-comm.) Bruce Schneier (Counterpane) Tsuyoshi Takagi (NTT) Yiannis Tsiounis (GTE Labs) Michael Waidner (IBM) Moti Yung (CERTCO) Robert Zuccherato (Entrust) PROGRAM CHAIR: -------------------------------------- Rainer Baumgart secunet Security Networks GmbH Weidenauer Str. 223 - 225 57076 Siegen Germany Tel.: +49-271-48950-15 Fax: +49-271-48950-50 R.Baumgart at secunet.de From jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu Wed Dec 23 08:04:57 1998 From: jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu (Ken Williams) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:04:57 +0800 Subject: "U.S. Allows Export Of Crypto Product ... strong-encryption productto 42 countries, without government-backed key-recovery" Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981222S0016 U.S. Allows Export Of Crypto Product (12/22/98, 5:38 p.m. ET) George Leopold, EE Times, http://www.eetimes.com Network security specialists ODS Networks has won government approval to export its strong-encryption product to companies in 42 countries, without a government-backed key-recovery feature. ODS, in Richardson, Texas, said it is the first U.S. company to receive a blanket export license from the Department of Commerce to ship its encryption product. The government strictly controls the export of encryption products with a key-recovery feature and key lengths of 112, 128, or 1,024 bits. The ODS products use an alternate "stream recovery" feature that lets users protect encrypted data. The company said its stream-recovery scheme helps resolve conflicting requirements for privacy and monitoring. ODS said its objective was to introduce a monitoring capability that protects the rights of innocent third parties in criminal investigations. - ----- Ken Williams Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/ E.H.A.P. Head of Operations http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org NC State CS Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNoEMeZDw1ZsNz1IXAQEqJgf6AnDNmzgTEOpTRzjtcTdh0qpMH94HssYl Jo+YfCjc/zcd5mEscnX+CtBrKKggODzzl5LoXiwuJ6BShJqpj8MdAZtah1PAG5NS N6pC3/JLr0lSqGeRcRo0NiVMdizv/78wbIFMXIOWk0e9v5Dts41r9THptHkfZqmA Zae4P63jBh/9DQtEwLwN6Vuj2gkRUZsfDPRbLeRjYzMMfosLdixZTPRbm/cY0KMD bZhn/KyH10UeLE9YFhkIffPw/UThzcDhX2IxQjzoX1QoWDVSlqJSdN0Q07LJsRvz pabhYr2oYq+TGc4SH3FN/qTuI0eNu1gmP2G42zemcAt43NoQwyWOFg== =kzlM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From declan at well.com Wed Dec 23 08:12:29 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:12:29 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com> Message-ID: <199812231541.HAA17483@smtp.well.com> If you want to vote your conscience (if it's a drug prosecution and you don't agree with drug laws for instance), there are a few organizations that you might want to look at. Maybe check out http://www.cato.org/ which last I checked had an advertisement for a new book on jury nullification etc. on their home page. -Declan At 08:30 AM 12-23-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies. > >Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do >decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification? > >The other option is to just lie, it says the penalty is that of perjury and it seems we shall >soon have case law that perjury is no longer a crime. > >Not a facetious post, I have seen posts here on this before, but never really paid attention because it didn't affect me. > >If no answers, I will resort to a search engine. But I thought this letter would get me better >quality advice. > >Thanks > From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Dec 23 08:25:43 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:25:43 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812231539.JAA30225@manifold.algebra.com> Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS, does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq From tcmay at got.net Wed Dec 23 10:15:33 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:15:33 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com> Message-ID: At 7:45 AM -0800 12/23/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >If you want to vote your conscience (if it's a drug prosecution and you >don't agree with drug laws for instance), there are a few organizations >that you might want to look at. Maybe check out http://www.cato.org/ which >last I checked had an advertisement for a new book on jury nullification >etc. on their home page. Simply vote "not guilty" on the charges (any or all) that one thinks are bad charges. Jurors are not required to "explain" their votes to anyone, least of all the government. Though, as with speaking to cops, it may be that the more one talks in the jury room, or attempts to explain to the judge, the worse a hole one digs for oneself. In particular, I'd steer clear of reading books about jury nullification, lest one be tempted to cite case law...and thus open the door for the judge to inquire further. Simply voting "not guilty" gives them no grounds for contempt charges, or whatever they usually throw at jury nullification advocates. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From bix at geekforce.org Wed Dec 23 10:20:14 1998 From: bix at geekforce.org (b!X) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:20:14 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199812231541.HAA17483@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: Also, the civilliberty.miningco.com website has a collection of jury nullification resources. - b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist) (Global Effort to Eradicate Know-nothings) (We all suck, and that makes us strong.) From petro at playboy.com Wed Dec 23 10:20:14 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:20:14 +0800 Subject: dbts: Georecursive Auctions (was Re: Friedman (The Younger) Sings...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:42 PM -0500 12/21/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Sure, Red Hat grosses $20 million, but that's more a function of the >cost-domination of sneaker-netted CDROM over the still-scrawny lower >capillaries of the internet. More to the point, I claim, it's the result of >the cost of *credit-cards*, even *checks*, as a way to pay for code. >Book-entry settlement, in other words, which is done "out of band", over >private, hierarchical, and proprietary financial transaction networks. Redhat makes it's money for 4 reasons, and only the first 2 will go way in the cryptoanarchic geodesic encrypted internetworked micromoney market place of the future: (1) Redhat [debian, slackware, S.u.s.e (the best dist. IMO)] contribute back to the Linux/Open Software community, and "We" pay them back by buying their software. (2) As noted above, the last mile pipes to the cloud are still small. (3) How much of Redhats profit is in support contracts? Lots of small to medium sized companies are starting to use Linux, and they like to buy support, even if it is useless and rarely used. This one will go away in the above cryptoanarchic geodesic encrypted internetworked micromoney market place of the future because one will be able to purchase specific consulting time from a wide variety of sources. --and-- >If it were possible to pay to download code, as you needed it, for >instantaneously net-settled *cash*, and for sufficiently small enough bits of >money, then the need, the price-economy, if you will, for large glops of code >would go away. This is why I purchased a copy of RedHat (and later SUSE, Redhat sucks): (4) Being able to grab code as you need it is all well and good, but what do you do when the machine that ties you into the network fails? When you need to get that machine back up +now+. Yes, you can burn your own CD (or DVDrom, or whatever), but Media burners are more expensive than readers, and not every one can afford them. The network can't help when you can't reach it. >Finally, it even behoves huge companies who control large blocks of >intellectual property, record companies, and Microsoft, for instance, :-), to >compete in this new kind of market, precisely *because* the the transaction >costs are so low and the initial profit margins are correspondingly higher. The problem with your line of thought is that in the cryptoanarchic geodesic encrypted internetworked micromoney market place of the future, the difference between "old" information (code) and "new" information (code) in MARKET terms can be minutes or less, while it takes weeks to turn out good new code. Why should _anyone_ buy at a higher price when one can watch the value fall faster than gravity should allow? Yes, someone will make the _first_ buy, but that will be the last buy at anywhere near that price, and that is going to force the developer to reduce his costs etc. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From vin at shore.net Wed Dec 23 11:04:59 1998 From: vin at shore.net (Vin McLellan) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:04:59 +0800 Subject: Koop's Crypto Law Survey updated - v. 14.1 (FW) Message-ID: From: "Bert-Jaap Koops" Organization: Tilburg University Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:04:37 MET Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated - version 14.1 I have updated my Crypto Law Survey to version 14.1. http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm INTERNATIONAL Wassenaar Arrangement (December 1998 changes) ASIA & PACIFIC China (no use restrictions) Indonesia (use restrictions?) Kyrgyzstan (no export controls) Vietnam (import controls) EUROPE EU (to implement Wassenaar changes?) Poland (free GSN import) Slovenia (no domestic controls) Spain (Telecoms Law may forebode key recovery) NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA Chile (no controls) Colombia (no controls) Costa Rica (no domestic controls) Mexico (no use restrictions) Puerto Rico (no controls) United States (new export relaxations; Junger dismissed; TACDFIPSFKMI charter extended; copyright act may hinder crypto research) Uruguay (no controls) Please note that the UK entry still needs updating. Bert-Jaap Koops Tilburg University 23 December 1998 -------------------------- You may forward this message, in its entirety, without permission. .-------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to with subject "unsubscribe cls-update". . ----- "Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege." _ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto _vbm. * Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + * 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 11:56:02 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:56:02 +0800 Subject: Good archive of AES algorithms? Message-ID: <199812231930.UAA06278@replay.com> > Thanks to everyone who responded to me on the AES > archive. Most people pointed me to the counterpane.com > web site, which is very nice and well done, and answers > most of my questions. Unfortunately, though, Counterpane > itself is one of the candidates, so the site may not > exactly be unbiased. Is there any site with a similar scope > being run by a disinterested party? Apparently you did not see the post which directed you to http://www.nist.gov/aes/. This is the home page for the AES. It has links to independent analyses of the algorithms, as well as performance information. From that page we find: Block Cipher Lounge http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/aes.html cAESar Project http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/crypto/CAESAR/caesar.html Efficiency Testing Table http://home.cyber.ee/helger/aes Efficiency Testing Results http://www.seven77.demon.co.uk/aes.htm Analysis from Louis Granboulan http://www.dmi.ens.fr/~granboul/recherche/AES.html NIST's preliminary efficiency testing results http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/nistefficiency1.pdf From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 11:56:16 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:56:16 +0800 Subject: jury duty Message-ID: <199812231931.UAA06366@replay.com> At 08:30 AM 12/23/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies. Your employer is not obligated to pay you during your arbitrarily-long court slavery, BTW. See: Fully Informed Jury Amendment www.fija.org Since snailmail is datagrams, how do they know you received their packet? Remember that you aren't obligated to explain your reasons any more than the barbarians are obligated to be reasonable. >If no answers, I will resort to a search engine. But I thought this letter would get me better >quality advice. I wonder if its a crime yet to refer you to FIJA. You can get busted in Calif for distributing FIJA materials near a court. Don't stand out and you can accomplish more subversion. From gbroiles at netbox.com Wed Dec 23 12:04:06 1998 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:04:06 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: > Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do > decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification? If you really do want to avoid jury service, mentioning FIJA or jury nullification ought to do the trick - it may get every juror within earshot excused, too, depending on how paranoid the locals are. But I think that's a horrible idea - jury participation is an opportunity to exercise much more influence than you wield if/when you vote in an election. All by yourself, voting your conscience as shaped by the evidence and the jury instructions, you can force a mistrial, which might or might not mean the end of the case. If your view of the evidence and your understanding of the law, as explained by the judge in the jury instructions, proves to be persuasive to your fellow jurors, you will collectively make the law as it applies to the parties in your trial. It's pretty difficult to overturn a jury verdict - not impossible, but it's harder than you might think from watching TV. Jury duty is, correctly understood, yet another of the "checks and balances" of the US legal system - if the legislators and judges are doing things with the law that the citizens don't like, don't support, or even just don't understand, it's an opportunity for those citizens to peacefully change the situation. Unfortunately, the jury duty process tends to select against people with the backbone to think for themselves; and people with backbone and strong principles often self-select away from jury service, because the bureacratic mechansims which surround it are confusing, annonying, and sometimes humiliating. If you can look beyond/around that, it's an opportunity to participate in the distributed creation of law and justice, which is a pretty big deal. Cypherpunks serve on juries? -- Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com From petro at playboy.com Wed Dec 23 12:07:27 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:07:27 +0800 Subject: Koop's Crypto Law Survey updated - v. 14.1 (FW) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:02 PM -0500 12/23/98, Vin McLellan wrote: >From: "Bert-Jaap Koops" >Organization: Tilburg University >Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:04:37 MET >Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated - version 14.1 > > >I have updated my Crypto Law Survey to version 14.1. >http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm > >INTERNATIONAL >Wassenaar Arrangement (December 1998 changes) > >ASIA & PACIFIC >China (no use restrictions) I think this should read "No written legal restrictions" as the government there seems to change ANY speech related restrictions on a whim. Bloody facists. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Wed Dec 23 12:07:34 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:07:34 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com> Message-ID: At 2:30 AM -0500 12/23/98, Anonymous wrote: >In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as >a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old >self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies. > >Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse >myself (I live in AZ), or if I do >decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my >conscious, aka jury nullification? > >The other option is to just lie, it says the penalty is that of perjury >and it seems we shall >soon have case law that perjury is no longer a crime. > >Not a facetious post, I have seen posts here on this before, but never >really paid attention because it didn't affect me. Don't bother, take a book (say Crime & Punishment, or John Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime, anything hard bound should do). State your opnions on capital punishment, and on "victimless crime" & drug crimes. Mention Jury Nullification, and you should be back on the street in an hour. Or, you can do your civic duty, get on the jury and do your best to do what is right. I'd suggest the latter. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 12:07:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:07:42 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty Message-ID: <199812231944.UAA07759@replay.com> On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: > In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies. > > Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do > decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification? Tell them the following: "I am aware of the doctrine of jury nullification and I will inform my fellow jurors of it. I will invoke it in cases where the defendant has been charged with a victimless crime, i.e. drug-related offenses, statutory rape, or other thoughtcrime, or when the law is otherwise unjust or unreasonable." The prosecutor won't touch you with a 10 foot pole. From jim_finder at hotmail.com Wed Dec 23 12:26:54 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:26:54 +0800 Subject: Good archive of AES algorithms? Message-ID: <199812232000.MAA22429@law-f115.hotmail.com> Anonymous writes: >> Thanks to everyone who responded to me on the AES >> archive. Most people pointed me to the counterpane.com >> web site, which is very nice and well done, and answers >> most of my questions. Unfortunately, though, Counterpane >> itself is one of the candidates, so the site may not >> exactly be unbiased. Is there any site with a similar scope >> being run by a disinterested party? > >Apparently you did not see the post which directed you to >http://www.nist.gov/aes/. This is the home page for the AES. It has >links to independent analyses of the algorithms, as well as performance >information. From that page we find: > >Block Cipher Lounge > http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/aes.html >cAESar Project > http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/crypto/CAESAR/caesar.html >Efficiency Testing Table > http://home.cyber.ee/helger/aes >Efficiency Testing Results > http://www.seven77.demon.co.uk/aes.htm >Analysis from Louis Granboulan > http://www.dmi.ens.fr/~granboul/recherche/AES.html >NIST's preliminary efficiency testing results > http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/nistefficiency1.pdf Ah, I was so put off by the big brother process for requsting a CD that I missed those links. Thanks! Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 12:38:13 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:38:13 +0800 Subject: DOES U.S. INTERVENTION OVERSEAS BREED TERRORISM? Message-ID: <199812231958.UAA08914@replay.com> Executive Summary According to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, terrorism is the most important threat the United States and the world face as the 21st century begins. High-level U.S. officials have acknowledged that terrorists are now more likely to be able to obtain and use nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons than ever before. Yet most attention has been focused on combating terrorism by deterring and disrupting it beforehand and retaliating against it after the fact. Less attention has been paid to what motivates terrorists to launch attacks. According to the Pentagon's Defense Science Board, a strong correlation exists between U.S. involvement in international situations and an increase in terrorist attacks against the United States. President Clinton has also acknowledged that link. The board, however, has provided no empirical data to support its conclusion. This paper fills that gap by citing many examples of terrorist attacks on the United States in retaliation for U.S. intervention overseas. The numerous incidents cataloged suggest that the United States could reduce the chances of such devastating--and potentially catastrophic--terrorist attacks by adopting a policy of military restraint overseas. In fact, the interventionist foreign policy currently pursued by the United States is an aberration in its history. Adopting a policy of military restraint would return the United States to the traditional foreign policy it pursued for the first century and a half of its existence before the Cold War distorted it. Such a foreign policy is more compatible with the individual freedoms and economic prosperity that define the American way of life. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 23 12:58:30 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:58:30 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223120228.009bf320@idiom.com> At 09:39 AM 12/23/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS, >does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq It should probably reduce them a bit, depending on your UPS design, but if you have to worry about people monitoring your electricity for contraband bits, you've got a whole raft of other things you'd better start taking care of, like disk encryption and offsite backups and signs on the door indicating that you will or will not shoot at police if they do or do not have warrants.... The converse is that if you've got an electrical filtering system as part of your TEMPEST protection, whether it's in your computer's power supply or separate or both, you tend to have really nice clean power feeding your computer, which is a Good Thing. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 23 12:58:43 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:58:43 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223122641.009c49f0@idiom.com> At 08:30 AM 12/23/98 +0100, Some Anonymous Replay User wrote: >In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a >regular employee and see no way out except to report. >The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies. > >Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself >(I live in AZ), or if I do decide to report and get on a trial, >a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification? The Fully Informed Jury Association web page is http://www.fija.org/fija . They've been the primary organization promoting Jury Nullification issues for the last N years, and there's some good material there. The question I'd ask is why you _want_ to get off jury duty. Just to avoid wasting your time? Don't like courts or the current laws? Don't like having to judge other people? Generally cantakerous? :-) If the problem is wasting your time, how much time gets wasted depends a lot on your county. Most counties call far more people than they need to be potential jurors, just in case they need them, and take different approaches for winnowing down to the numbers they actually need for real cases. The place I live now makes you call a recorded message every night to see if your number's come up. On the other hand, a county I used to live in made you show up in person for the first four days whether you were needed or not, and this was before laptop computers so I couldn't do much work there. Another county I lived near makes the lawyers all show up Monday, and takes care of all the jury selection that day. On the other hand, if you are picked, and the trial is expected to take a long time, the voir dire process generally includes asking if this is going to cause a major hardship, which is why juries on those cases are usually made up of retired schoolteachers, retired military, and postal workers. But most county jury trials seem to be civil cases, like car accidents and such, which are usually pretty quick. For criminal cases, the job of the jury has always been to judge the law and its applicability as well as the facts of the case, regardless of what the judge and prosecutor tell you (though the judge's instructions on the law usually are relatively good advice.) If you think the law's bad, like drug laws, or being applied unfairly in the case at hand, or that the penalties are way out of line for the crime, you can vote not guilty, and you can try to convince your fellow jurors to do the same. Your duty is to vote your conscience. Alternatively, if you really want to get out of jury duty anyway, handing out FIJA literature in the jury pool waiting room and discussing the issues with your fellow potential jurors should either get you thrown out quickly, because they don't want your subversive kind around, and similarly, if you get as far as the jury selection process, being an intelligent and opinionated type often makes you an undesirable juror in either civil or criminal cases, so they may still reject you. But if you're the political activist type, rather than just trying to get out of jury duty, you can get stuck on some automobile accident or dog bite lawsuit where there's basically no FIJA issue at all and you're just deciding who's 65% at fault and how much pain and suffering their whiplash really caused :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Dec 23 13:05:03 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 05:05:03 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981223120228.009bf320@idiom.com> Message-ID: <199812232032.OAA03464@manifold.algebra.com> Bill Stewart wrote: > > At 09:39 AM 12/23/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS, > >does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq > > It should probably reduce them a bit, depending on your UPS design, > but if you have to worry about people monitoring your electricity > for contraband bits, you've got a whole raft of other things > you'd better start taking care of, like disk encryption and Very true. I thought about this too. The question that I ask is, how much $$ am I worth to whoever might want to snoop at me? And then I spend money/time (my time is freely convertible to money) accordingly. > offsite backups and signs on the door indicating that you > will or will not shoot at police if they do or do not have warrants.... Well, I personally hate these signs, they are very unfriendly. > The converse is that if you've got an electrical filtering system > as part of your TEMPEST protection, whether it's in your computer's > power supply or separate or both, you tend to have really nice > clean power feeding your computer, which is a Good Thing. Hmmm, nice point. Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. igor > Thanks! > Bill > Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com > PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 > - Igor. From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Dec 23 14:20:39 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:20:39 +0800 Subject: Roast pesky car theives with a flame thrower! Message-ID: <368166A6.D950FE25@brainlink.com> http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/ Don't you wish these were legal in the USA? :) -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Dec 23 14:35:19 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:35:19 +0800 Subject: mobil cctv cameras... sigh... Message-ID: <368168F2.66280E32@brainlink.com> http://www.patrolcctv.com/ "PATROL CCTV: The PATROL CCTV Called MOBILE VISION, is a mobile surveillance system, which extends the visual perimeter for Law Enforcement, Military, Government mobile surveillance requirements and for both on and off road driving for SUV enthusiasts. A Pan/Tilt/Zoom is compatible with in-car video recorders. Stabilizes images, reads license plates at 300FT. With a 24X Zoom and 85,000:1 dynamic range camera, makes Mobile Vision a unique system. " -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI From riburr at shentel.net Wed Dec 23 14:45:57 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:45:57 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <199812232032.OAA03464@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <36816CF1.F1F7CE34@shentel.net> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via > use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from > the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that > expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. How effective is aluminum foil (crinkled and layered)? It's cheap, easy to install and remove, and in concert with some halogen lighting, be host to any number of suspicious activities. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 23 15:17:25 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:17:25 +0800 Subject: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Walker Digital, a self-described "Edison in Menlo Park" knockoff, and propagator of the priceline.com business model patent (which see, above), is the feature article of this week's omi-1998-gawd issue of The Industry Standard. WD has been patenting everything it can think of, including something I heard of at least 3 years ago from Eric Hughes and Bob Hilby at Simple Access: accumulating internet purchases to a 900- telephone number bill. However, since WD is 5 years old, maybe they got there first after after all, and that's why Hilby, Hughes and Co., stopped talking about it. Either that or Eric got Yet Another Big Idea, and they went chasing down *that* rabbithole instead. As a mostly unmedicated ADDer, I can sympathize with that problem, myself :-)... Anyway, since business process patents are the subject of this month's DCSB meeting, with what I'm sure will be a great talk by Michael Schmelzer and Ira Heffan of Testa Hurwitz here in Boston, I figured I'd give everyone on these lists some food for beforehand. People should monitor , for the actual text of the article, if and when it eventually hits their archives. It'll probably take a week or so. If, of course, they don't have a copy of the magazine themselves already, that is. William Braddock, who's the chairman and CEO of Priceline now, used to be up my direct chain of command, three or four bosses up, when I was an operations analyst at Citicorp 10 years ago, though I never met him. Eventually, he ended up President and CEO of Citicorp after I left. The guys I worked for always used to talk about him reverentually, but that could just be an organization-man thing. I seem to remember Steve Schear, who used to work at a different Citicorp company back then, talking lately about Braddock once or twice, but I can't remember if Schear knew Braddock back then or not. Finally, and most important for us, it looks like Bruce Schnier's involved with Walker Digital as a partner. Given the cryptographic content of not a few of their patents, (like 5,828,751, "Method for Secure Measurement Certification", or 5,768,832, "Remote-Auditing of Computer-Generated Outcomes and Authenticated Billing and Access-Control System Using Cryptographic and Other Protocols") it looks like that's where he's parking some of his IP these days. But, of course, I haven't gone to look at the patents themselves to see if his name's on them, so that's only speculation. Curioser and curioser. Reading all of this stuff this afternoon me made me antsy enough, grouchy, really, to start a rant about this kind of patent-farming, sparked both by all the registered trademarks in the DigiCash bankruptcy filing, and compounded all the fun things Walker Digital has gone and patented, things which are braindead simple. To some people, anyway. :-). Priceline, for instance, seems to me exactly like the specialist's book at the New York Stock Exchange, frankly, but since it's now on the internet, it's patentable, according to the Patent Office. Anyway, the rant on this is forthcoming, or at least in the hopper, my having vented a little steam here, and, in the meantime, I thought I'd fire off this heads-up to everyone so they can read the Industry Standard article themselves. It's on Page 60 of the December 28 / January 4 issue. And, tangentally, to plug January 5th's DCSB meeting, of course, :-), which should be a really good one, in light of current events. Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNoFsicUCGwxmWcHhAQFQzQgAmVZDbchvpnDb5/ofq9OKGu5yqD9YMnyf I0H75rjorm/k9TNSC8kH1yvp8s0n6eaXh0r7Bf0CayYeAKg+4tZHHjysHKxKowwR Xjcmm8ACwNLTlQTF1GWpaUoSE5RQ3cDZJKJGHA3OQRRewJlC7D/Zz48pZfP7EXuB ASDOC+f+aDjAYFa66d8ax1a49SbKC4Xpr0blpxp9uCU7aUdgJp51H25jiZvE/Wi3 NvgxDZzw1me6LToSPZR+qa7rmExlEyFJsDmhYkhHh7PH8qOR4gwGXD9ZunpPlm6U buW99TtKNzM32os0Pdbod9AcuifOS+s1f5ubJxJ5i21RmeeOPEtiig== =wb+S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From whgiii at openpgp.net Wed Dec 23 15:28:19 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:28:19 +0800 Subject: mobil cctv cameras... sigh... In-Reply-To: <368168F2.66280E32@brainlink.com> Message-ID: <199812232138.QAA011.83@whgiii> In <368168F2.66280E32 at brainlink.com>, on 12/23/98 at 05:04 PM, Sunder said: >The PATROL CCTV Called MOBILE VISION, is a >mobile surveillance system, which extends the >visual perimeter for Law Enforcement, Military, >Government mobile surveillance requirements and >for both on and off road driving for SUV >enthusiasts. A Pan/Tilt/Zoom is compatible with >in-car video recorders. >Stabilizes images, reads license plates at 300FT. >With a 24X Zoom and 85,000:1 dynamic range >camera, makes Mobile Vision a unique system. " All circumvented with a handful of mud. Isn't technology grand. :) -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at nowhere.to Wed Dec 23 15:34:30 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:34:30 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <03e63d7f660781fa4c3b078108512b13@anonymous> Navy ordinace personnel always to have a keen sense of irony and, therefore, a fine sense of humor. On Cohen. Well, he affirms his belief in his coic. What else needs to be said? This press statement does sound like Algore though. Maybe the two have been spending too much time together or drinking from the same fruit bowl. ;) anon y. mous From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 15:34:51 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:34:51 +0800 Subject: Jury Duty Message-ID: <199812232303.AAA23676@replay.com> Greg Broiles writes: >If you really do want to avoid jury service, mentioning FIJA or jury >nullification ought to do the trick - it may get every juror within >earshot excused, too, depending on how paranoid the locals are. > >But I think that's a horrible idea - jury participation is an opportunity >to exercise much more influence than you wield if/when you vote in an >election. All by yourself, voting your conscience as shaped by the >evidence and the jury instructions, you can force a mistrial, which might >or might not mean the end of the case. If your view of the evidence and >your understanding of the law, as explained by the judge in the jury >instructions, proves to be persuasive to your fellow jurors, you will >collectively make the law as it applies to the parties in your trial. It's >pretty difficult to overturn a jury verdict - not impossible, but it's >harder than you might think from watching TV. Be aware that concealing your opinions on this matter can get you into hot water. Juror Laura Kriho was convicted of obstruction of justice for not revealing that she believed in jury nullification, during the selection process. Kriho has appealed. More information is at http://home.utah-inter.net/don-tiggre/jrp.krihotoc.htm. The judge's ruling, at http://www.eagle-access.net/index3.html: :} After reviewing all the evidence and the law, and applying the standard :} of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the Court reaches the following :} conclusions. During the jury selection process Ms. Kriho was aware that :} the trial court and the lawyers felt it was a juror's duty to follow the :} law as given by the trial court, and they wanted to know if any juror :} disagreed with this proposition. Ms. Kriho was also aware that the trial :} court and the parties wanted to know if the jurors could follow the rule :} that punishment was not to enter into their deliberations. Ms. Kriho :} was also aware that the trial court and the parties wanted to know if :} the jurors could follow the rule that punishment was not to enter into :} their deliberations. Ms. Kriho was also aware that the trial court and :} the parties wanted to know if any juror had strong feelings concerning :} the enforcement of drug laws or any experience that would affect their :} attitude about drug laws. While being aware of the importance of these :} issues and having been given the opportunity to comment on these issues, :} Ms. Kriho deliberately withheld her opinions on these topics from the :} trial court and the parties during the jury selection process. Based on :} all the evidence, this Court concludes that it was Ms. Kriho's intent to :} withhold this information from the trial court and the parties so that :} she could be selected to serve on the jury and obstruct the judicial :} process. By deliberately withholding this information, she obstructed :} the process of selecting a fair and impartial jury. The selection of :} jurors who have open minds and who have not preconceived the verdict :} is essential for a fair trial. Ms. Kriho's lack of candor about her :} experiences and attitudes led to the selection of a jury doomed to :} mistrial from the start. This Court finds this conduct constitutes :} obstruction of justice and this conduct was offensive to the authority :} and dignity of the trial court. From PaulMerrill at acm.org Wed Dec 23 15:40:54 1998 From: PaulMerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:40:54 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST' In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE20313FB44@MSX11002> Message-ID: <36817918.68EF807C@ACM.Org> The details of TEMPEST are classified, but details of reduction of emmissions are not. After all, those little FCC notices on your equipment these days are regarding emmissions. 'Tis all a matter of degree. PHM Brown, R Ken wrote: > > Tim May wrote: > > > The full TEMPEST specs are more or less classified, as might > > be expected. (Because one does not lightly tell one's enemies > > what one is measuring for.) > > > Contrary to popular rumor, it is not "illegal" to shield > > computers, to "use TEMPEST methods," as it were. > > Rather hard to see how it could be, given that the details are supposed to > be secret! If all of a sudden you got arrested for wrapping wet towels > around screens that would be a Big Clue.... > > (of course that assumes you live in a country where you get told what you;ve > been arrested for. Hmmmm....) > > Ken From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 23 15:56:01 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:56:01 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223151921.00959c30@idiom.com> At 04:41 PM 12/22/98 -0500, Petro wrote: >If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so >easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT >HERE. > >24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making >the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away Well, depending on time zones, I may have just missed your deadline, but it's pretty close. It shouldn't be that tough to do - get some anthrax*, and go find a flock of sheep and ask for volunteers willing to help their country. Any that don't run away fast enough will do, so herd them into pens where you can manage them. Give them some skin cuts and dust them with your starter supply. When they get infected enough and die, collect the pus from the wounds and handle it carefully, preferably with gas masks and rubber gloves. Now that you've replenished your starter supply, deposit the used sheep on the Pentagon's front step, light some black candles, ring the doorbell, and run. Alternatively, if you don't like killing poor cute mammals that are even dumber than Democrats, you can grow the stuff in Petri dishes. More seriously, though, anthrax isn't some exotic hard-to-grow disease; before modern sanitation and plastic brush bristles, there were at least occasional problems with anthrax infection in shaving brushes and hairbrushes made with bristles from infected pigs, and training for barbers included sterilizing brushes to prevent it. The trick is in making sure you don't get infected yourself, and also in manufacturing it in military quantities and militarily-convenient delivery systems. If all you're trying to do is smuggle it into the Pentagon cafeteria or the Yankee Stadium hot dog stands, rather than take out a whole city like government-employed terrorists do, it's not that tough. A more appropriate distribution approach would be for a US-based Iraqi to fire a Stinger missle at one of the US Army's Chemical or Biological Warfare development facilities. After all, the White House has announced that blowing up weapons of mass destruction is a Good Thing.... [ *Anthrax is a naturally-occurring organism, so it's not cheating to start the process with "get some Anthrax" rather than by synthesizing it.] Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 23 16:01:01 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:01:01 +0800 Subject: Break the code...from RSA [CNN] Message-ID: <199812232356.RAA12783@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/23/codecrack.idg/ > RSA WANTS YOU TO CRACK THIS CODE > > [INLINE] > > December 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 10:30 AM EST > > by Rebecca Sykes > > (IDG) -- RSA Data Security will host another contest to break the U.S. > government's Data Encryption Standard at the RSA Data Security > Conference in San Jose, Calif., in January. > > The 56-bit DES encryption algorithm is widely used and has been broken > in the contest before, most recently in July in a record three days. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 23 16:21:48 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:21:48 +0800 Subject: DOES U.S. INTERVENTION OVERSEAS BREED TERRORISM? In-Reply-To: <199812231958.UAA08914@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223155432.009555e0@idiom.com> > >According to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, terrorism is the most >important threat the United States and the world face as the 21st century >begins. High-level U.S. officials have acknowledged that terrorists are now >more likely to be able to obtain and use nuclear, chemical, and biological >weapons than ever before. > > >In fact, the interventionist foreign policy currently pursued by the United >States is an aberration in its history. Adopting a policy of military >restraint would return the United States to the traditional foreign policy >it pursued for the first century and a half of its existence before the Cold >War distorted it. Such a foreign policy is more compatible with the >individual freedoms and economic prosperity that define the American way of >life. > While I agree with the need to discourage interventionist foreign policy, and especially to keep the US from using terrorism as an excuse for further erosions of civil liberties at home and as an excuse for maintaining and finding new work for the increasingly-unnecessary standing army, I have to disagree with the notion that US foreign policy was "restrained" for its first 150 years - it was just focused on "our" Western Hemisphere. The first 40-50 years were primarily occupied with the British, but also included the Louisiana Purchase and consolidation of control and wars with the Indian Nations in that territory, plus the "Monroe Doctrine" which said that the Western Hemisphere was the US's, and no other colonialism could happen, though we weren't quite ready yet. But after that, it was open season for the "Manifest Destiny" expansionists, conquering Northern Mexico (with some Texan help), subjugating any Native tribes that the Mexicans hadn't done in, taking the rest of North America between Canada and the now-smaller Mexico, including Washington and Oregon, though they were restrained enough not to carry out "54 40' or Fight!". During the middle of this period, there was that nasty little event, the Reconquest of the Confederacy. While the southern states had seceeded primarily to protect slavery, and the US invasion was largely driven by nationalists who wanted America to control as much of North America as it could. Then there was the Teddy Roosevelt conquest of Spanish Caribbean territory, with the additional bonus of the Philipines, and a century of intervention in places like Haiti and Nicaragua (when did the Marines first go there? 1905?). Much of US intervention in Latin America was on behalf of fruit and sugar companies, just as the conquest of the Kingdom of Hawai'i had been, and it was only after WWII that they could blame it on Commies. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Dec 23 16:33:31 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:33:31 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS Message-ID: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com> > Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. > The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge, perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line always. One cage I saw had ferrite tiles on the solid walls to minimize internal reflections which would cut down on leakage too. Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join edges? Al has a bad habit of oxidizing rapidly in air. I guess you could fold edges over several times - seems tacky. Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You would need the euivalent of a door over the window. Build one in your garage. Make it out of sections so you can move it. 6' x 8' seems about right for a couple computers and some lab equip. Is the cost justified? I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures. Mike From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 23 17:03:19 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:03:19 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <199812232032.OAA03464@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223163005.0082ed70@idiom.com> At 05:21 PM 12/23/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote: >Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >> Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via >> use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from >> the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that >> expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. > >How effective is aluminum foil (crinkled and layered)? It's cheap, easy to install >and remove, and in concert with some halogen lighting, be host to any number of >suspicious activities. Neither one will make a dent from a Tempest perspective, though the foil might disperse heat enough to protect your dope farm :-) Bettter to build an RF-tight box for your PC and use fiber cables, and you'll still need to do really special power filtering. The Army used to use copper screen cages for computers back in the 70s, which got about 60dB worth of shielding. When I ran a TEMPEST-shielded room in the mid-80s, the specs said (roughly) that you needed 100dB of shielding for a room with computers in it, and the room technology we used gave about 110-120dB depending on how tight our door gaskets were. It used particle board with sheet metal on both sides and special edge/corner joints, and you packed copper-wool into any loose area and copper tape on any flat areas that had leaks. At the time you needed to be very careful about joints between anything, because RF just _leaks_, and we watched frequencies up to about 450MHz, since then-current computer equipment didn't have harmonics at anything like that high a frequency - but it still didn't take much of a leak to peg the meters, in spite of that being a .6 meter wavelength. Well, 1.5MIPS Vaxen are a bit out of date now, 300MHz Pentiums are common, and they've got all sorts of harmonics out there. If you want a penetration in the walls, e.g. for air or fiber optic cables, you needed some ratio I've forgotten between the depth and width of the hole; A two-inch deep hole could be about 1/4" across -- your 1/2" flat chickenwire would be pretty transparent. There's newer stuff now - some kind of carbon-fiber cloth with aluminum in it that's really nice to wallpaper with, but you still need to handle all the joints, which is tough to do. Other than protecting your dope farm, tin foil's not real useful, though I suppose you could line your hat with it to keep microwaves out :-) What's scary is that I _have_ seen a catalog (mostly NewAgey health scams) that sold RF-shielded hats; I forget if they were metal-lined or carbon-fiber. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Dec 23 17:08:47 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:08:47 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com> Message-ID: <199812240040.SAA07841@manifold.algebra.com> Michael Motyka wrote: > > > > > Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via > use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from > the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that > expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. > > > > The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper > screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were > two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper Michael, Was the amount of work involved really necessary? What do three layers accomplish compared to just one? > sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or > beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge, > perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should > be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with > filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your > apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line > always. Right. > Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join > edges? Glue? Perhaps some weak glue that would not destroy the underlying paint. > Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You > would need the euivalent of a door over the window. My window has a mesh on it. Is that not enough? > I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything > but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures. Is that confirmed by evidence? The reason for my question, I think that I somewhat value TEMPEST protection, but not enough as to cover my whole room with expensive and ugly looking copper or three layers of mesh and ferrite. I don't want all of it to be too conspicious. - Igor. From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Dec 23 17:49:40 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:49:40 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <199812240040.SAA07841@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <36819772.503@lsil.com> Igor, These were commercial cages used in the consumer products design business. Things like radios, TVs, 900MHz cordless phones etc...do I know for a fact that two or three layers of fine mesh copper ( BTW about an inch apart ) were necessary? No. I just took the word of the guys who had been doing the stuff for years. It wouldn't surprise me if the commercial cages were overkill. Neither would I be surprised if anything less leaked significantly. RFI is not an easy subject area. Find a commercial cage vendor and talk to an apps eng. Lacking an actual test facility, I suppose a really basic test would be to use a hand-held AM radio tuned to a space between stations and try out your PC with and without a chicken-wire cage. Sometimes a particular piece of SW will have a pattern that you can recognize, maybe following a keypress. I've been able to differentiate between button scan, watchdog, servos, processor etc... It's a relatively cheap, quick experiment. Try different frequencies and orientations of the ferrite loop antenna. For higher frequencies ( CPU clocks + other harmonics ) you'll need other methods. I've been meaning to take a look at a standard PC keyboard. Someday soon...if I do I'll let you know what I find. As for looks - tough - a PC generates lots of RFI, a partially functional cage is probably worse than none at all because of the false sense of security. Trying to shield the computer and the monitor is an entirely different can of worms. Probably an order of magnitude harder than making a good cage. Regards, Mike In real life even the easy things are not easy. Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Michael Motyka wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via > > use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from > > the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that > > expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls. > > > > > > > The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper > > screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were > > two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper > > Michael, > > Was the amount of work involved really necessary? What do three layers > accomplish compared to just one? > > > sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or > > beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge, > > perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should > > be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with > > filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your > > apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line > > always. > > Right. > > > Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join > > edges? > > Glue? Perhaps some weak glue that would not destroy the underlying paint. > > > Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You > > would need the euivalent of a door over the window. > > My window has a mesh on it. Is that not enough? > > > I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything > > but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures. > > Is that confirmed by evidence? > > The reason for my question, I think that I somewhat value TEMPEST > protection, but not enough as to cover my whole room with expensive and > ugly looking copper or three layers of mesh and ferrite. I don't want > all of it to be too conspicious. > > - Igor. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 23 17:55:50 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:55:50 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS (fwd) Message-ID: <199812240152.TAA13324@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:22:58 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS > These were commercial cages used in the consumer products design Someplace you might want to check into about actual real-world cage design and computers is Cray. When I worked at UT Austin and we put in the comp center at the Balconese Research Center it had a wire mesh cage installed per spec by Cray for the X-MP & Y-MP. It would not surprise me if they didn't have some literture and design guides available. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 23 19:29:13 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:29:13 +0800 Subject: Merry Christmas from Message-ID: Now, *this* is curious... Anyone, especially from C2NET, wanna take a shot at the following? I think I can tell him what CTO means ;-), but what about the rest? Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text From: Somebody To: Subject: Merry Christmas from Date: Status: U Dear Rob Hettinga Merry Christmas and a happy new year! Hi, my name is I hope you remember me from FC98. I am trying to find out what is happening with C2net. I heard a rumor that C2net had corporate restructuring and Sameer quit CEO and became CTO. What is CTO anyway? Also, there was a rumor that someone who was in charge of the development of the SSL in Australia quit working for C2net. Does this have to do with Sameer's announcement of the OpenSSL project? I really need to know this. Please reply to my e-mail if you know anything about it. Thank you. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 23 19:33:47 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:33:47 +0800 Subject: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:18:40 -0800 (PST) From: To: rah at shipwright.com Subject: Re: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html Status: U IMHO, the patent office has no clue what the hell they're doing. Maybe it is time we do away with patents and let people who feel ripped off rely the courts for restitution. I have always thought that patents were to protect the inventor from being ripped off. However, i now find that: 1. patents are slowing down progress, since someone with a better idea can't use that idea since somehow, any incarnation of the patented idea, however different it may be, is covered by the broadness of the patent, thanks to some high paid lawyer. 2. patents are meant for "inventions", not ideas. Ideas are getting patented everyday. I know of many. Why do I consider them ideas and not inventions? Because the patented "thing" isn't available. There is a description of how it will work, what it will do and how someone could build it, in a million different ways, if they could figure out the tiny details themselves, since that is the part missing. But can you go anywhere and touch the invention, or see it operate or use it in some manner, however preliminary? No. I still have the folder that E*Data sent me four or more years ago, stating: We would rather license than litigate. Here is a list of companies we've sued. You'd look through the paperwork and everything was spelled out except what you would get from them if you licensed their patent, other than permission. You remember E-Data? Where are they now? Well they had a big blow a few months ago to their silly patent. All in all, I don't think patents help the small inventor any more. Those who can afford it, tell a lawyer what they are thinking and in 60-90 days, the attorney will have filed a patent with no more than a few follow-up phone calls or faxes. Those who can't afford it will continue to be robbed of their inventions. My rant. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 23 19:42:17 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:42:17 +0800 Subject: Expansion of handgun bans? [CNN] Message-ID: <199812240339.VAA13582@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/23/gun.study/ > > EXPAND THE HANDGUN BAN? STUDY DRAWS FIRE > > guns December 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 4:28 p.m. EST (2128 GMT) > > In this story: > * Misdemeanor convictions linked to future crimes > * Critic: Study flawed > * Related stories and sites > > > > CHICAGO (CNN) -- It's legal in the United States for a person > convicted of a misdemeanor to buy a handgun. But, according to a study > being challenged as flawed, such purchasers are more likely than those > without a criminal record to commit a crime and should be barred from > buying handguns, just as felons are. > > The study was published Wednesday in the Journal of the American > Medical Association. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Wed Dec 23 20:04:31 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:04:31 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com> Message-ID: <199812240342.WAA20762@camel8.mindspring.com> For a new type of RF shielding consider "Flectron" a metallized fabric that allegedly shields up to 100db. Originally developed by Monsanto it has recently been bought by Advanced Performance Materials (which also makes a range of EMI-related products): http://www.apm-emi.com/ Another company, BEMA, Inc. offers portable enclosures made mostly of Flectron for TEMPEST protection, with RF-protected doors, vents, and electrical and cable connections. One is a walk-in, 6 x 6 x 7, weighs 125 lbs. and fits in two suitcases for transport. And there's a desktop version. These are reportedly in use by NSA, other TLAs, the military and corporations. There's a brief description at: http://www.martykaiser.com/bema1.htm The market in TEMPEST-related products is rapidly growing. Check AltaVista under that term or, say, NSA 65-6 and MIL-STD-285. There's more material appearing all the time as the word gets out on the need for RF-protection. We've heard from manufacturers that the demand for their shielding products is increasing for medical purposes -- some related to those dreaded signals being received by teeth and brain. Flectron clothing and bed shrouding are in the works. To be sure, Joel McNamara's TEMPEST Web site remains the best of all unclassified sources: http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.html From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 20:35:00 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:35:00 +0800 Subject: bug recipes Message-ID: <199812240402.FAA17735@replay.com> ..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding.. The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe. What you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim... From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 23 20:37:57 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:37:57 +0800 Subject: ruskies on crypto Message-ID: <199812240413.FAA18580@replay.com> http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/docs/ruscrypt.html DECREE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION Concerning legal matters in the area of development, production, sale and usage of encoding devices, and also for the assignment of responsibility concerning the encoding of information http://www.emoney.ru/eng/about/our_publications.htm Our publications "What is "Digital Money" A.I.Demidov, C.V.Preobrazhensky. "Planet Internet", 1997, July, Russian. "Cryptography basics" A.I.Demidov. "Internet World" #7(10), 1997, July. Russian. "Internet commerce" A.I.Demidov. "Itogi" (JV with "Newsweek") #24(57), 1997, June. Russian. "The main types of Internet payment systems" A.I.Demidov "Internet World" #6(9), 1997, June. Russian. "Digital Cash" A.I.Demidov. "CardWorld" #8, 1997, May. Russian. "Information site: www.emoney.ru" C.V.Preobrazhensky. ROCIT workshop "Electronic commerce and Internet payment systems", 1997, April. Russian. "Ways of Internet payment systems development in Russia" A.I.Demidov. ROCIT workshop "Electronic commerce and Internet payment systems", 1997, April. Russian. "What is digital money?" A.I.Demidov. "Money" #8(116), 1997, March. Russian. http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/coding/379/lesson1.htm CLASSICAL CRYPTOGRAPHY COURSE From Alten at home.com Wed Dec 23 21:21:33 1998 From: Alten at home.com (Alex Alten) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:21:33 +0800 Subject: mysterious PGP release-signing keys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981223195440.00b29970@mail> >Please excuse the crosspost, but does anyone know *who* generated and/or >owns these keys? > This is yet another a good example of why one should never confuse using PK certificates with security. An email PGP signature looks impressive but in practice it is useless. - Alex -- Alex Alten Alten at Home.Com Alten at TriStrata.Com P.O. Box 11406 Pleasanton, CA 94588 USA (925) 417-0159 From webmaster at max-web.com Wed Dec 23 21:58:29 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:58:29 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981223213018.00989c20@max-web.com> At 09:39 AM 12/23/98 -0600, you wrote: >Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS, >does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq > While I can't anwser that question, I do know of a technique where you look at the rises and falls in resistance on an ic (like a cpu, or other microprosser) and be able to tell what instructions were being executed. The problem was that you needed to A) Know what instructions were being executed so you could assign them to different patterns (calibrate first). B) Do A every time you switch ic's. (recalibrate every time you change ic's) Of corse you need a clean power supply to begin with, and some way to measure nearly imperceptable changes in resistance. There once was a file I read on "Real Programmers (substutite with any computer profession). This is from my memory so don't quote me: " Real Programmers don't eat quiche. They eat microwave popcorn. Real Programmers don't pop their microwave popcorn in microwaves. They use the heat of the cpu. Real Programmers don't use Gate Emulators. They can tell what instruction is being executed at any given time by the rate of the popcorn popping. " I thought it was appropiate. -Kevlar Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions? A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death. Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong" and question authority. From howree at cable.navy.mil Wed Dec 23 21:58:29 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:58:29 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981223061138.00acf7b0@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981224151942.0388eb40@205.83.192.13> At 08:18 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: > >:>Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous >:>euphemisms) any soveriegn State? What good for the goose is not good for >:>the gander? I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry >:>or lack thereof? >: >:Perhaps if you cited a few examples, your counter-point would have some >:weight. > >How about Iraq itself??? Do you view our bombing Iraq as sanction? Or as retaliation for their sanction of Kuwait? Later, is our bombing of Iraq sanction, or follow through on our warning in light of Husseins continued thwarting of UN inspectors? I don't think Iraq measures up as an example of a sovereign nation the US sactioned. You would have been better off listing the anti-terrorist strikes in the Sudan and Afghanistan, but even those were not "sanctions" in the same sense that Iraq-Kuwait were. >:>:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are >:>:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different >:>:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it??? >:>Yes indeed. In these two countries we were there only to watch over the >:>slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves. Mustv'e ruined your Military >:>Day (tm), huh Reeza? >: >:(yawn) not really. Actually, any involvement we have with the UN gets on my >:nerves. Interesting, the way you ignore the differences between "internal >:conflict" and "aggression against a sovereign neighbor". > >I don't see any difference when *we* are the ones injecting ourselves into >it. Why don't you point them out to me? Lead the horse to water, and make him drink? The evidence is there to be seen, one need only be willing to see. Yes, that knife cuts both ways. Boils down to ideological differences. I believe in defense through a strong offense (threat of retaliation) and carrying out that retaliation when provoked. I do not see eye to eye with everything the UN does, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. Nor does it mean we (the US) should become totally isolationist. With the hue and cry from the world community, I believe our/the UN retaliation against Iraqs sanction of Kuwait is, and always will be justifiable. I view Somalia and the Bosnia fiascos differently, they are internal conflicts. In Bosnia, there is the added factor of "ethnic cleansing". I'm reminded of the truisms about how a drowning man will accept help from any source, and that a wild animal will bite the hand that feeds it. I'm personally leary of any involvement with those internal conflicts because it is interfering with that 'survival of the fittest' thing. Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From nobody at nowhere.to Wed Dec 23 22:15:20 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:15:20 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <2d8061e553fb3e96846222e7893c31a9@anonymous> INTELLIGENT VIRUS INVADES NT SERVERS A new computer virus that attacked 10 MCI Worldcom networks last week is capable of spreading throughout computer networks and scrambling the documents on those networks as it goes. "We've never seen anything this sophisticated in 10 years of doing this," says Network Associates' general manager of network security. "This is a completely new strain of virus and the first we've seen that propagates itself with no user interaction." The "Remote Explorer" virus runs on Microsoft Windows NT servers and affects common programs like Microsoft Word. Users clicking on their Word icon might experience a slight delay, but otherwise would be unable to detect the presence of the virus; meanwhile, the virus is busy corrupting files and spreading to other programs. Microsoft officials say they're "aware of other viruses that have the same characteristics," and Network Associates says it has developed a Remote Explorer detector and is working on a solution to decode the affected files. (Wall Street Journal 22 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From athena at cyberpass.net Wed Dec 23 23:56:06 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:56:06 +0800 Subject: bug recipes Message-ID: <0c21a12a18cbe07b583b092c04c69544@anonymous> >..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax >breeding.. > >The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is >passe. What you *really* want to do is dig up a >smallpox victim... The only Mils vaccinated are the ones going into saudi and bosnia and other High-threat area's. They will not be fully vac'ed for another 3-5 years. As far as smallpox...I'd just as soon that shit NEVER get dug up. I somehow doubt a skeleton could harbor usable smallpox but I am not up on my biology tonight. --Skrill From nobody at nowhere.to Thu Dec 24 00:21:34 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:21:34 +0800 Subject: Is Sameer/C2net Attempting to subvert the OpenSSL and Mod-ssl projects Message-ID: To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net cc: Subject: OpenSSL and C2Nets attempted subversion of same(Sameers track record -------- On the Subject of Sameers record with open source mod_ssl.c(this was the component that Sameer wishes wasnt available(and did his best to deny to his customers) and indeed was quite sucessful in preventing its availability until Ralf Engleschall's mod_ssl becam available... This is the REAL reason C2net took a nose dive...) and now it appears Sameer is trying to co-opt that project also. I trust Ben Laurie and Ralf... They developed the code . I DONT trust Sameer... he is simply a privateer, he takes sources and trys to restrict availability so he can make a profit from Intellectual Property NOT developed by him... I specifically suspect his announcement coming on the heels of Ben's. I dont think this person will ever get a clue about either Open Source or GPL. merry Xmas the baby ruth bar in the swimming pool :) From pafei at rubin.ch Thu Dec 24 00:25:18 1998 From: pafei at rubin.ch (Patrick Feisthammel) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:25:18 +0800 Subject: mysterious PGP release-signing keys In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981223195440.00b29970@mail> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Alex! > This is yet another a good example of why one should never confuse using PK > certificates with security. An email PGP signature looks impressive but in > practice it is useless. It is usefull iff you can verify the validity of the used PK certificate. That's what the web of trust in PGP is for. Cheers, Patrick - --- PGP-KeyID: DD934139 (pafei at rubin.ch) encrypt mail with PGP if possible more about PGP on http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/ (english and german) what ist the web of trust? see http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/weboftrust.en.html Das Vertrauensnetz von PGP: http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/weboftrust.de.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQESAwUBNoH0kpVgYabdk0E5AQHENgfjBRrYXjTfvo6NMbx/ktK23yeiKibeTfSZ lbjZCdT+Vp433IAAtz4EHgC1vbSHaA04CdvPrX2cTYqeJAP7RQzGgbZVg7P9p23C rFYoPtLdCXEiH9GDG48TuqFTUBvJrLMIZXIoSS/ZhMQMASim9zDF/gLQP0/VGicc QwCjwogFed+R0uvoleZh0YhhEnkIKkLDM4a9pDcLKi9uryspeD6VrWevegmJpzXM aSQBlpMuTdOXcmaThEqgblP7YeAzK8Q4IdT2oNsCpUx4DntzX/bJ5fOKYjRLdy10 4ctSlXOqYOWZmjVnF4lRFDmI1dwfX0hf7uHTBRG6lh913hAIVg== =ktwt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hrmmmmmmmmmm at hotmail.com Thu Dec 24 00:41:01 1998 From: hrmmmmmmmmmm at hotmail.com (uhm, yeah..) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:41:01 +0800 Subject: bug recipes Message-ID: <19981224081650.17846.qmail@hotmail.com> > >..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding.. > What? >The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe. What >you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim... > You must have a lot of time on your hands, eh? > - neotek ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 01:44:25 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:44:25 +0800 Subject: Ping Message-ID: <199812240922.KAA04877@replay.com> TEST TEST TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ TEST TEST ~ From email_tool at yahoo.com Thu Dec 24 02:29:51 1998 From: email_tool at yahoo.com (Bernies) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:29:51 +0800 Subject: We pay you to host our banner Message-ID: <419.436153.74761794email_tool@yahoo.com> You got this email because you address have added into our database by you or someone. If you don't want to got this email any more, simply send a blank email with REMOVE at subject to us. Thanks because reading this mail, now you can earn one dollar ($ 1.00 ) just hold a banner at you site. If someone fill out a form form you web site and you will get $1.00. Very simple and easy. For more information or you want to join us, pls email to us at email_tool at yahoo.com or burnerutm at hotmail.com iwth subject headline :BANNER HOLDER Thanks Bernies From fbi.files at usa.net Thu Dec 24 18:33:47 1998 From: fbi.files at usa.net (fbi.files at usa.net) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:33:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Get Your FBI Files! Message-ID: <> Are you now or have you ever been in the FBI files? The answer is, most likely, Yes! Just about everyone has their own FBI file. How do we know? The authors did research under the Freedom of Information Act. It shows that government agencies do not like being held accountable to the public and resist the efforts of citizens who seek information about their activities. >>>>>>>>Starting Dec. 4, 1998, we are running a TV commercial nationwide for the following offer. If you snooze, you will lose! You will also see our ad in newspapers and hear it on the radio. We expect, at some point, the FBI will knock on our door and tell us to stop selling the book because they are getting too many inquiries. The huge demand will make it difficult for latecomers to obtain their FBI files. First about the FBI filing system. It was created to deter anybody from getting full information. The FBI uses many record systems. They created what is called "Main Files" with four classifications: * Personal * Administrative * Applicant (for government employees) * Investigative To further confuse us, the FBI created 210 classification numbers besides the files called "Confidential," "Secret," and "Top Secret." Here are some of the classification numbers and the categories they stand for: #3 - Overthrow or Destruction of the Government #5 - Income Tax #17 - Veteran Administration Matters #23 - Prohibition (Maybe your Grandfather is here.) #40 - Passport and Visa Matters #47 - Impersonation #49 - National Bankruptcy Act #64 - Foreign (This one is interesting. Intelligence information about citizens of foreign countries!) #72 - Obstruction of Criminal Justice #85 - Home Owner Loan Corporation #162 - Interstate Gambling Activities #183 - Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (You know this one -- RICO.) There is a specific system of numbering documents. It was not easy for the investigative team to decipher and decode how the numbering relates to everyone. Your FBI ID number most likely consists of three sets of numbers. For example: 100-15375-17 100 - marks the document as part of a domestic security investigation. 15375 - indicates the document investigation number. These two sets of numbers together creates a "case number." 17 - a numeric labeling, but to confuse everyone, it could be an incoming or outgoing document. But, we have the solution. An awesome publication, "FBI Files," is now available. As a bonus, we created a letter for you which covers all possible requests so none of the information is missing when you get your file. Here is how it works. If you don't ask for it, you don't get it. That's a LAW! But, if you know what to ask for, you MUST get it. That's also a LAW! Our researchers spent twenty years just uncovering what to ask for. Today, if you ask for your file without being specific, you may be brushed off with questions as to which main file, subfile, or some very strange, cryptic language and code names such as "Elsurs Logs," "MISUR," "TESUR," "FOIA," Document Classification Reveiw Unit known as "CRU," and so on. Who has an FBI file? * All Criminals * Organized Crime Members * Government Employees * Celebrities * Foreigners who became U.S. Citizens * All Foreigners with Green Cards * Foreign Nationals * Members of Interest Groups * Everyone involved in Counter-Intelligence * Black Nationalist hate groups * Internal Security * All Politicians * Everyone with any kind of Police Record * All Professionals who are fingerprinted for a specific profession -- example, Real Estate Agents * All Fugitives * Computer Hackers and Flamers We believe that everyone today has an FBI file and that your future National ID # is going to be your FBI File number! The book, "FBI Files," gives you detailed information on how you can obtain all files the FBI has on you. It will also give you information how to obtain the FBI files of other people. The FBI will not release these voluntarily. You may have to jump through some hoops to get them. But, under the Freedom of Information Act, you are entitled to get ANY information unless it is subject to national security. When you receive your files you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you. You find out your neighbor is an FBI informant. You may even find out your trash was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information was put in your file. If you ever attended a "politically incorrect" meeting or political rally, you may find your picture in your file. Or if you purchased a book or magazine considered "underground," that information may be in your file. Or your neighbor may have heard you listening to a talk show considered "politcally incorrect" and may have reported you to the authorities. Does this sound far-fetched? We wish! Things like this are happening every day. Why do you NEED your FBI files? Your future job or promotion may depend on the information contained in those files! It is a MUST for you to obtain your files and correct any and all incorrect information before it affects your life! NOW is the time to order............................. "FBI Files" is 226 pages of detailed information and instructions. When you read your own FBI files, you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you. You may find out your neighbor is an informant. You may even find out your garbage was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information put in your file. By the way, if you find any derogatory information which is not yours but appears in your file, you can sue the government for huge sums of money! Procrastination on your part may just keep you from being able to get YOUR FBI FILES! Order now and avoid the rush. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is how to order: Our "FBI Files" package is being offered at the Special Promotion price of $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail ($9.95). You should receive your book within 7-10 days from receipt of order. .......Here are the BONUSES for you........ *You will receive a letter created by our Research Dept. in which you just fill in your Name, Address, Social Security Number, and start searching for your file or files. Depending on who you are and what may be in your file will be the measurement of how long it will take to receive all the information. But, eventually, YOU WILL SUCCEED! *You will also receive an updated list of FBI field offices in the United States with their addresses. *We will also include a special folder in which you can store your information. You can send us a check (takes at least 5 business days to clear) or money order. We also accept all major Credit Cards: Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover. Print out the convenient order form below NOW and mail it to: World Net Press Dept. E-1224 P.O. Box 96594 Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594 Payment Method: _____ Check _____ Money Order _____ Visa _____ MasterCard _____ American Express _____ Discover _____ Yes, I want to order my copy of the "FBI Files Package" which includes the Bonus letter I can send to the FBI, the updated list of FBI Field Offices, and a special folder for storing my information. Price is $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail($9.95) and bonuses. Name_________________________________________________________________________ Address______________________________________________________________________ City/State/Zip_______________________________________________________________ Daytime Phone (__________)___________________________________________________ E-Mail Address_______________________________________________________________ Credit Card #_____________________________________________ Exp. Date_________ Cardholder Name (as it appears on the card)__________________________________ (Please make sure you include your phone number and e-mail address in case we have a question about your order. Your credit card billing will reflect Road to Wealth, Inc.) If you are unhappy with "FBI Files," just return the book within 30 days of date of purchase and we will refund the price of the book less shipping and handling and a restocking fee of 15%. >>>>>>We have many publications and videos with thought-provoking titles available. If you would like more information, please reply to this message and type MORE INFO in the subject line. Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************************************** You are receiving this e-mail for one of the following reasons: a) You are interested the subjects we have to offer. b) You are on our in-house mailing list. c) You sent us your offer or contacted us in the past. d) Someone you know has sent us your e-mail address because they thought you may be interested in what we have to offer. If this message has reached you in error, or the information is not correct, please accept our apology. Follow the instructions below to be removed and we will honor your request. We do not knowingly engage in spam of any kind. Please click on your reply button and type REMOVE in the SUBJECT LINE ONLY. The software ignores any message in the body. ************************************************************************** Please be advised we collect the e-mail addresses of all flamers, hackers, and users of abusive and vulgar language. We submit these addresses to the FBI and Interpol on a monthly basis. From fbi.files at usa.net Thu Dec 24 18:33:47 1998 From: fbi.files at usa.net (fbi.files at usa.net) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:33:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Get Your FBI Files! Message-ID: <> Are you now or have you ever been in the FBI files? The answer is, most likely, Yes! Just about everyone has their own FBI file. How do we know? The authors did research under the Freedom of Information Act. It shows that government agencies do not like being held accountable to the public and resist the efforts of citizens who seek information about their activities. >>>>>>>>Starting Dec. 4, 1998, we are running a TV commercial nationwide for the following offer. If you snooze, you will lose! You will also see our ad in newspapers and hear it on the radio. We expect, at some point, the FBI will knock on our door and tell us to stop selling the book because they are getting too many inquiries. The huge demand will make it difficult for latecomers to obtain their FBI files. First about the FBI filing system. It was created to deter anybody from getting full information. The FBI uses many record systems. They created what is called "Main Files" with four classifications: * Personal * Administrative * Applicant (for government employees) * Investigative To further confuse us, the FBI created 210 classification numbers besides the files called "Confidential," "Secret," and "Top Secret." Here are some of the classification numbers and the categories they stand for: #3 - Overthrow or Destruction of the Government #5 - Income Tax #17 - Veteran Administration Matters #23 - Prohibition (Maybe your Grandfather is here.) #40 - Passport and Visa Matters #47 - Impersonation #49 - National Bankruptcy Act #64 - Foreign (This one is interesting. Intelligence information about citizens of foreign countries!) #72 - Obstruction of Criminal Justice #85 - Home Owner Loan Corporation #162 - Interstate Gambling Activities #183 - Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (You know this one -- RICO.) There is a specific system of numbering documents. It was not easy for the investigative team to decipher and decode how the numbering relates to everyone. Your FBI ID number most likely consists of three sets of numbers. For example: 100-15375-17 100 - marks the document as part of a domestic security investigation. 15375 - indicates the document investigation number. These two sets of numbers together creates a "case number." 17 - a numeric labeling, but to confuse everyone, it could be an incoming or outgoing document. But, we have the solution. An awesome publication, "FBI Files," is now available. As a bonus, we created a letter for you which covers all possible requests so none of the information is missing when you get your file. Here is how it works. If you don't ask for it, you don't get it. That's a LAW! But, if you know what to ask for, you MUST get it. That's also a LAW! Our researchers spent twenty years just uncovering what to ask for. Today, if you ask for your file without being specific, you may be brushed off with questions as to which main file, subfile, or some very strange, cryptic language and code names such as "Elsurs Logs," "MISUR," "TESUR," "FOIA," Document Classification Reveiw Unit known as "CRU," and so on. Who has an FBI file? * All Criminals * Organized Crime Members * Government Employees * Celebrities * Foreigners who became U.S. Citizens * All Foreigners with Green Cards * Foreign Nationals * Members of Interest Groups * Everyone involved in Counter-Intelligence * Black Nationalist hate groups * Internal Security * All Politicians * Everyone with any kind of Police Record * All Professionals who are fingerprinted for a specific profession -- example, Real Estate Agents * All Fugitives * Computer Hackers and Flamers We believe that everyone today has an FBI file and that your future National ID # is going to be your FBI File number! The book, "FBI Files," gives you detailed information on how you can obtain all files the FBI has on you. It will also give you information how to obtain the FBI files of other people. The FBI will not release these voluntarily. You may have to jump through some hoops to get them. But, under the Freedom of Information Act, you are entitled to get ANY information unless it is subject to national security. When you receive your files you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you. You find out your neighbor is an FBI informant. You may even find out your trash was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information was put in your file. If you ever attended a "politically incorrect" meeting or political rally, you may find your picture in your file. Or if you purchased a book or magazine considered "underground," that information may be in your file. Or your neighbor may have heard you listening to a talk show considered "politcally incorrect" and may have reported you to the authorities. Does this sound far-fetched? We wish! Things like this are happening every day. Why do you NEED your FBI files? Your future job or promotion may depend on the information contained in those files! It is a MUST for you to obtain your files and correct any and all incorrect information before it affects your life! NOW is the time to order............................. "FBI Files" is 226 pages of detailed information and instructions. When you read your own FBI files, you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you. You may find out your neighbor is an informant. You may even find out your garbage was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information put in your file. By the way, if you find any derogatory information which is not yours but appears in your file, you can sue the government for huge sums of money! Procrastination on your part may just keep you from being able to get YOUR FBI FILES! Order now and avoid the rush. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is how to order: Our "FBI Files" package is being offered at the Special Promotion price of $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail ($9.95). You should receive your book within 7-10 days from receipt of order. .......Here are the BONUSES for you........ *You will receive a letter created by our Research Dept. in which you just fill in your Name, Address, Social Security Number, and start searching for your file or files. Depending on who you are and what may be in your file will be the measurement of how long it will take to receive all the information. But, eventually, YOU WILL SUCCEED! *You will also receive an updated list of FBI field offices in the United States with their addresses. *We will also include a special folder in which you can store your information. You can send us a check (takes at least 5 business days to clear) or money order. We also accept all major Credit Cards: Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover. Print out the convenient order form below NOW and mail it to: World Net Press Dept. E-1224 P.O. Box 96594 Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594 Payment Method: _____ Check _____ Money Order _____ Visa _____ MasterCard _____ American Express _____ Discover _____ Yes, I want to order my copy of the "FBI Files Package" which includes the Bonus letter I can send to the FBI, the updated list of FBI Field Offices, and a special folder for storing my information. Price is $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail($9.95) and bonuses. Name_________________________________________________________________________ Address______________________________________________________________________ City/State/Zip_______________________________________________________________ Daytime Phone (__________)___________________________________________________ E-Mail Address_______________________________________________________________ Credit Card #_____________________________________________ Exp. Date_________ Cardholder Name (as it appears on the card)__________________________________ (Please make sure you include your phone number and e-mail address in case we have a question about your order. Your credit card billing will reflect Road to Wealth, Inc.) If you are unhappy with "FBI Files," just return the book within 30 days of date of purchase and we will refund the price of the book less shipping and handling and a restocking fee of 15%. >>>>>>We have many publications and videos with thought-provoking titles available. If you would like more information, please reply to this message and type MORE INFO in the subject line. Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************************************** You are receiving this e-mail for one of the following reasons: a) You are interested the subjects we have to offer. b) You are on our in-house mailing list. c) You sent us your offer or contacted us in the past. d) Someone you know has sent us your e-mail address because they thought you may be interested in what we have to offer. If this message has reached you in error, or the information is not correct, please accept our apology. Follow the instructions below to be removed and we will honor your request. We do not knowingly engage in spam of any kind. Please click on your reply button and type REMOVE in the SUBJECT LINE ONLY. The software ignores any message in the body. ************************************************************************** Please be advised we collect the e-mail addresses of all flamers, hackers, and users of abusive and vulgar language. We submit these addresses to the FBI and Interpol on a monthly basis. From howree at cable.navy.mil Thu Dec 24 04:22:33 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:22:33 +0800 Subject: Graffitti or National Policy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223094009.00ad2c20@205.83.192.13> At 02:15 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: > > HEY, REEZA! ARE YOU *LISTENING* ??? >----- > Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti >Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST Looks to me like someone is a sore luser. --snipped a bunch of twice posted material, along with running commentary-- >J.A. Terranson >sysadmin at mfn.org Next time, try saying something about my mother. Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From howree at cable.navy.mil Thu Dec 24 04:39:32 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:39:32 +0800 Subject: bug recipes In-Reply-To: <19981224081650.17846.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981224221959.007bda00@205.83.192.13> At 12:16 AM 12/24/98 PST, uhm, yeah.. wrote: >> >>..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding.. >> >What? > >>The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe. What >>you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim... >> >You must have a lot of time on your hands, eh? > >- neotek > I've said this offlist twice already. Botulism doesn't have the military appeal of anthrax, but is more easily cultivated, disseminated, and will not result in the knee-jerk reaction once it is diagnosed. The original poster did not rise to the challenge of the 24 hour time limit, as I anticipated. My goal was to for him to justify his position, or make him shut up. He sounded like Chicken Little. There was some noise, but no recipe from that original poster. Time out, I rest my case. The link Petro posted was hilarious BTW, Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From riburr at shentel.net Thu Dec 24 05:52:04 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:52:04 +0800 Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS In-Reply-To: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com> Message-ID: <36823E24.99771ACE@shentel.net> John Young wrote: > We've heard from manufacturers that the demand for > their shielding products is increasing for medical purposes > -- some related to those dreaded signals being received > by teeth and brain. Flectron clothing and bed shrouding > are in the works. Something akin to the mosquito netting draped over beds in the tropics? I live in a mountain valley. Once mined for iron ore, compasses are unreliable here. TV reception was limited to watching the ant races. Radio was squelchy and drift prone. Signals could not bore through the mountain's heart of iron. The voices went away. The sky was a vacuum, pressure was relieved. But lately rf has been falling from the sky, the heavy signal moisture causes fungi, slate-grey disks, to sprout from the roofs and sides of homes. The conditions have caused a fungal bloom. Spores rain down into the valley, collide, bounce and ricochet into a storm. The disease pressure is high. My head's a sensurround, Imax theater of voices and images that never fucking stop. Surely some protective prophylaxis is called for, maybe something as cheap as a plastic grocery bag, but this is no guaranty. Coffins manufactured to the highest Tempest standard may attenuate the signal strength enough to prevent reanimation of the corpses. Bodies are sealed in composite fiber radomes, designed to reflect and absorb the offensive radiation. Some choose incineration to escape the influx, mixing incinerate with powdered ferrite to achieve some measure of final rest. From whgiii at openpgp.net Thu Dec 24 07:13:19 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:13:19 +0800 Subject: Is Sameer/C2net Attempting to subvert the OpenSSL and Mod-ssl projects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812241350.IAA017.59@whgiii> In , on 12/24/98 at 05:25 PM, Anonymous said: >To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >cc: >Subject: OpenSSL and C2Nets attempted subversion of same(Sameers track >record -------- >On the Subject of Sameers record with open source > mod_ssl.c(this was the component that Sameer wishes wasnt >available(and did his best to deny to his customers) and indeed was quite >sucessful in preventing its availability until Ralf Engleschall's mod_ssl >becam available... This is the REAL reason C2net took a nose dive...) and >now it appears Sameer is trying to co-opt that project also. >I trust Ben Laurie and Ralf... They developed the code . >I DONT trust Sameer... he is simply a privateer, he takes sources and >trys to restrict availability so he can make a profit from Intellectual >Property NOT developed by him... >I specifically suspect his announcement coming on the heels of Ben's. I >dont think this person will ever get a clue about either Open Source or >GPL. I must have missed this one. Could anyone provide some greater detail on what the mod_ssl.c issue was with Sameer & C2Net? FWIW I have a couple of projects that I am working on that are dependent on the SSLeay Libs. If I don't like the way Sameer or C2Net is going with this I will just continue my own development on the Libs. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From petro at playboy.com Thu Dec 24 07:47:11 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:47:11 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT HERE. 24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away inappropriate information" pussy shit. It is wholly relevant, not inappropriate, and will MAKE ME APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE LIST. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT, http://www.hiphopmusic.com/anthrax.html (apologoes if the quoting on this isn't quite right). "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." Thos. Jefferson petro at playboy.com From rah at shipwright.com Thu Dec 24 07:51:53 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:51:53 +0800 Subject: SCC's SmartFilter Bans Crypto/Privacy Website(s) as Naughty, not Nice? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:59:49 -0500 To: cryptography at C2.net From: Vin McLellan Subject: SCC's SmartFilter Bans Crypto/Privacy Website(s) as Naughty, not Nice? Sender: owner-coderpunks at toad.com This is an amazing story! Security Computing Corporation sells a content filter ("SmartFilter") which is used to restrict web access from within corporations and other organizations. Lauren Weinstein, the moderator of the widely respected Privacy Forum, a mailing list and website on the Internet at , recently reported that for over a year (see the attached post) corporate employees at sites which use SCC's SmartFilter have typically been restricted from accessing the Privacy Forum website or archives because the Privacy Forum's occasional discussion of cryptography. These discussions -- no code, all high-level discussions of civil and ethical values, policy, and crypto politics -- were apparently enough to define the Privacy Forum website as a repository of "criminal skill." Some SCC corporate customers, according to Weinstein, had explicitly asked for crypto resource sites on the web to be defined as off-limits. It is still unclear how those requests (one from the corporate site which brought the matter to Weinstein's attention) resulted in SCC staff labelling the Privacy Forum website -- along with, one must presume, many _many_ others -- as a repository of criminal skills. (Other sites which fall into this SmartFilter category include, for example, websites which make available information about what ingredients can be used to make a bomb. Shades of Wassenaar and ITAR.) What is amazing, of course, is that Secure Computing is one of the more sophisticated vendors in computer security. There are a lot of smart people at SCC who will doubtless cringe when they hear this story. It may, in fact, seem hilarious to some of them that SCC's website evaluation staff (and the web filters they use to express and embody their judgements) could categorize a privacy site as "criminal" just because it archives discussions of cryptography and crypto politics. Some of the best of those discussions, for instance, may have involved SCC employees like cryptographer Rick Smith;-) What is _really_ sad is that -- when Weinstein complained that a website categorized as offering "criminal skills" by SCC's SmartFilter staff may, with no recourse, suffer irrepreparable harm -- the best and most daring response SCC could come up with was to promise to set up a website at which organizations and commercial entities could query the SCC database to see how SCC's website evaluators labelled them. (This, of course, presumes these organizations hear about SCC's Smartfilter product.... It also presumes that representatives of those agencies, firms, or organizations feel compelled to inquire to see if SCC's professional moralists labelled them in some similarly eccentric category.) Not exactly clear on the concept, those clever SmartFilter folk. Frankly, not in a million years would anyone outside of the bowels of the Hoover Building consider crypto savvy (or an obsession with privacy) as inherently "criminal." Not yet anyway. I do hope that SCC has sold a few thousand copies of SmartFilter which routinely block corporate employee access to some feisty, litigious, and well-networked civil libertarian groups like the ACLU, EPIC, CDT, or PI as repositories of Criminal Skills. Oh, yes indeed! In fact, if the Privacy Forum was labelled as "criminal" because of an ocassional discussion of crypto, does it make sense that the websites of SDTI/RSA, Entrust, IBM, MS, Netscape, et al, eluded the ban and some similar label? Inquiring Minds wanna to know. The SmartFilter has been awarded "certification" by the International Computer Security Association's testing labs: . The SmartFilter data sheet is at: http://www.securecomputing.com/P_Tool_SF_Docs.html and there is a white paper at: http://www.securecomputing.com/sfwhitep.pdf SCC provides SmartFilter access controls adapted for both Unix and Windows NT, as well as for the Microsoft Proxy Server, the Netscape Proxy Server, several firewalls, the CSM Proxy Server, the NetCache Proxy Server, and the Squid Proxy Server. Feliz Navidad, _Vin ------- original message ----------------- > From: privacy at vortex.com [SMTP:privacy at vortex.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 4:58 PM > To: PRIVACY-Forum-List at vortex.com > Subject: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21 > > PRIVACY Forum Digest Sunday, 20 December 1998 Volume 07 : Issue > 21 > [...] > > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 98 12:25 PST > From: lauren at vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator) > Subject: Privacy Discussions Classified as a "Criminal Skill" > > Greetings. Is discussing privacy in the PRIVACY Forum a criminal skill? > According to one widely used commercial web filtering tool, the answer was > yes! The controversy over software to block access to particular sites, > based on perceived content, has been continuing to rage. Attempts to > mandate the use of such software in environments such as libraries and > schools have raised a variety of serious concerns. In addition to fairly > straightforward freedom of speech issues, another factor revolves around > how accurate (or inaccurate) these filtering systems really are. > > I've now seen firsthand that errors by a filtering system can indeed be quite > serious, an event that seems to certainly validate some of these concerns. > But there is something of a silver lining to the story, as we'll see > later. > > I recently was contacted by someone at a large corporation, who was trying > to reach the PRIVACY Forum web site, which is constantly being referenced by > individuals and commercial, educational, government, and other sites around > the world. This person was upset since whenever they attempted to reach > the http://www.vortex.com site and domain that hosts the PRIVACY Forum, > their web software blocked them, informing them that the block was in place > due to the site being categorized as containing "criminal skills." > > As the webmaster for the vortex.com domain, this certainly came as news to > me. The message they received didn't give additional information--they > didn't even know exactly where it came from. It was apparent though, that > the entire organization was probably blocked from reaching the PRIVACY > Forum, since the filtering software in question was affecting a main > firewall system. > > After a number of phone calls and discussions with the system administrator > for that organization, the details began to emerge. The company was running > a filtering software package from Secure Computing Corporation of San Jose, > California. This package received weekly updates of blocked sites in a wide > variety of categories, one of which was "criminal skills." > > The administrator had no idea what rationale was used for these decisions, > they just pulled in the list each week and applied it. He immediately placed > vortex.com on a local exception list so that it would no longer be blocked to > their users. > > I then turned my attention to Secure Computing. After a number of calls, I > found myself speaking with Ken Montgomery, director of corporate > communications for that firm. He confirmed the information I had already > received. The filtering product in question ("SmartFilter") was apparently > not being marketed to individuals, rather, it was sold to institutions, > corporations, etc. to enforce filtering policies across entire entities. > The product covers a wide range of information categories that users of the > software can choose to block. He said that the majority of blocked sites > were in categories involving pornography, where there was (in his opinion) > no question of their not belonging there. > > The "criminal skills" category reportedly was broadly defined to cover > information that might be "of use" to criminals (e.g. how to build bombs). > He had no explanation as to why my domain had been placed in that list, > since by no stretch could any materials that are or have ever been > there fall into such a categorization. He did discover that the > classification of my domain had occurred over a year ago (meaning > other sites could have been receiving similar blocking messages for > that period of time when trying to access the PRIVACY Forum) and > that the parties who had made the original classification were no longer > with their firm--so there was no way to ask them for their rationale. > (All of their classifications are apparently made by people, not > by an automated system.) > > However, it seems likely that the mere mentioning of encryption may have > been enough to trigger the classification. The administrator at the > organization that had originally contacted me about the blocked access, told > me that the main reason they included the "criminal skills" category in > their site blocking list was to try prevent their users from downloading > "unapproved" encryption software. This was a type of information that he > believed to be included under the Secure Computing "criminal skills" > category (the "logic" being, obviously, that since criminals can use > encryption to further their efforts, encryption is a criminal skill). He > also admitted that he knew that their users could still easily obtain > whatever encryption software they wanted anyway, but he had to enforce the > company policy to include that category in their blocking list. > > As PRIVACY Forum readers may know, no encryption software is or ever has > been distributed from here. The topic of encryption issues does certainly > come up from time to time, as would be expected. For the mere *mention* of > encryption in a discussion forum to trigger such a negative categorization > would seem to suggest the fallacy of blindly trusting such classification > efforts. > > Mr. Montgomery of Secure Computing initially suggested that it was up to > their customers to decide which categories they wanted to use in their own > blocking lists -- he also stated that as a company they were opposed to > mandatory filtering regulations. I suggested that such determinations by > their customers were meaningless if the quality of the entries in those > categories could not be trusted and if errors of this severity could so > easily be made. I felt that this was particularly true of a category with > an obviously derogatory nature such as "criminal skills"--the ramifications > of being incorrectly placed into such a category, and then to not even > *know* about it for an extended period of time, could be extreme and very > serious. > > To their credit, my argument apparently triggered a serious discussion > within Secure Computing about these issues. I had numerous subsequent > e-mail and some additional phone contacts with Mr. Montgomery and others > in their firm concerning these matters. First off, they apologized > for the miscategorization of vortex.com, and removed it from the > "criminal skills" category (it was apparently never listed in any > other of their categories). > > Secondly, they have agreed with my concerns about the dangers of such > miscategorizations occurring without any mechanism being present for sites > to learn of such problems or having a way to deal with them. So, they will > shortly be announcing a web-based method for sites to interrogate the Secure > Computing database to determine which categories (if any) they've been > listed under, and will provide a means for sites to complain if they feel > that they have been misclassified. They've also suggested that their hope > is to provide a rapid turnaround on consideration of such complaints. > > While by no means perfect, this is a step forward. I would prefer a more > active notification system, where sites would be notified directly when > categorizations are made. This would avoid their having to > check to see whether or not they've been listed, and needing to keep > checking back to watch for any changes or new categorizations. If more > filtering software companies adopt the Secure Computing approach, there > would be a lot of checking for sites to do if they wanted to stay on > top of these matters. Secure Computing feels that such notifications are > not practical at this time. However, their move to provide some > accountability to their filtering classifications is certainly preferable > to > the filtering systems which continue to provide no such facilities and > operate in a completely closed environment. > > So, we make a little progress. The PRIVACY Forum and vortex.com are no > longer miscategorized and have been removed from all Secure Computing block > lists. Secure Computing was polite and responsive in their > communications with me, and will establish the system discussed above in > reaction to my concerns. Web filtering of course remains a highly > controversial topic with many serious negative aspects, but we see that when > it comes to dealing with the complex issues involved, it would be a mistake > to assume that all such filters all created equal. > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein > Moderator, PRIVACY Forum > http://www.vortex.com > [...] ----- "Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege." _ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto _vbm. * Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + * 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 08:35:55 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:35:55 +0800 Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information Message-ID: <199812241607.RAA29858@replay.com> I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors rights and jury nullification. Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 24 08:43:05 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:43:05 +0800 Subject: Suggested reading Message-ID: <199812241629.KAA00465@einstein.ssz.com> The Iron Cavalry Ralph Zumbro ISBN 0-671-01390-4 $6.99 US Note especialy the last chapter, "Puma Force". ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at seclab.com Thu Dec 24 09:43:03 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:43:03 +0800 Subject: Assault on Civil Liberties Message-ID: <199812241705.SAA05945@rogue.seclab.com> "Civil liberties and privacy grew more tenuous. The Clinton administration maintained its record of utter unfriendliness toward the Bill of Rights as it applies to technology. The administration's hard-line stand on encryption, the scrambling of data to keep it away from prying eyes, shows no signs of moderation. And the administration pursued the absurd notion, which flies utterly in the face of reality, that private businesses can regulate themselves in ways that protect consumers' privacy." From jim_finder at hotmail.com Thu Dec 24 10:14:51 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:14:51 +0800 Subject: What's up with C2 and SSL? Message-ID: <199812241744.JAA06583@law-f104.hotmail.com> Would someone mind explaining the background of this dispute? I've seen posted several vague accusations that imply that (depending on the poster) either Sameer or Ben have acted badly and unwisely in some way, and that at least one of them has a "bad track record" with open source software. I don't have enough information to judge, which I expect is also the case for many other readers here. Could someone please lay out exactly what this bad track record is, and what was wrong with Sameer and Ben's announcements? Otherwise we all just have to guess what is going on here. Also, what happened with SSLeay? Either that, or stop making public accusations. Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ericm at lne.com Thu Dec 24 10:34:01 1998 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:34:01 +0800 Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information Message-ID: <199812241809.KAA15486@slack.lne.com> Anonymous writes: > I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming > will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors > rights and jury nullification. > > Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? No, it's a bad idea. The ends do not justify the means. -- Eric Murray N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From user3847 at blue.com Fri Dec 25 03:08:39 1998 From: user3847 at blue.com (user3847 at blue.com) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:08:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: MASS E-MAIL WORKS...AND WE GUARANTEE IT! 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NOTE: For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists call us direct @ 1-800-404-1475 extension 2031 for immediate removal. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads only to interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington State residents. *Responding to the "return address" will NOT have your name removed. PRINT THIS AD FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION!! From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 11:49:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:49:50 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812241924.UAA09287@replay.com> Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you should also put something in there to educate the masses about how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good idea. From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 12:12:10 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:12:10 +0800 Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information In-Reply-To: <199812241809.KAA15486@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <199812241951.UAA11587@replay.com> >> I think about ... and spam the internet... >> Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? > No, it's a bad idea. The ends do not justify the means. Worse, the *only* end you'll achieve is to piss off nearly everyone who *might* have been interested in what you had to say (and getting your name added to the Black Hole database and tens of thousands of individual kill files). Get real -- is there *anyone* on the net who treats unsolicited email as anything other than unadulterated dreck? From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Thu Dec 24 13:35:42 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:35:42 +0800 Subject: JFK Message-ID: "The basis of effective government is public confidence, and that confidence is endangered when ethical standards falter or appear to falter." - JFK From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 24 13:45:25 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:45:25 +0800 Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] Message-ID: <199812242142.PAA01446@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/23/BC-Norway-NameLaws.ap/ > Mother of 14 jailed for violating Norway's baby-name law > > December 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:52 AM EST (1452 GMT) > > > OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A mother of 14 was jailed this week because she > refused to change the name she picked for her young son, even though > that violated Norway's name law. > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that she named her > son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named "bridge." > Gesher means bridge in Hebrew. > > Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of acceptable > first and last names. In 1995, Larsen tried to register her son's name > as Gesher at her local county office, which rejected the choice as > illegal. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ASCOLI63 at aol.com Thu Dec 24 16:08:21 1998 From: ASCOLI63 at aol.com (ASCOLI63 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:08:21 +0800 Subject: Hottest deals on wholesale products! Make big $$ Message-ID: <85e9597a.3682ab6c@aol.com> Looking to market a product on the net? Tired of working for others and dealing with huge amounts of paper work? Click-N-Go! USA WHOLESALE DIRECTORY DISK You already know people are making small fortunes selling products online. 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Send payment of $7.50 to the address below to receive your cookbook by mail. K.C. Smith P.O. Box 9141 Evansville, IN 47724 Questions/Comments or to be removed: CrackerDude at mailcity.com! We will remove your RIGHT AWAY! We got your email address from www.Extractor.com! I am giving you my address and information so clearly this is not a sick scheme to take your money. Expect 3-7 Days to Receive your cookbook. From rivers at twistedtunes.com Thu Dec 24 18:27:22 1998 From: rivers at twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:27:22 +0800 Subject: It's Christmas Time Message-ID: <0299e13180019c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com> Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you? From rivers at twistedtunes.com Thu Dec 24 18:28:13 1998 From: rivers at twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:28:13 +0800 Subject: It's Christmas Time Message-ID: <026ed13180019c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com> Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you? From measl at mfn.org Thu Dec 24 18:29:15 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:29:15 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981224151942.0388eb40@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter: :, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one :expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of :enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. I believe this is the the only true argument here. The US (and you) are not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG. If Hussein were to have remained a US puppet, he could do pretty much as he damn well pleased, anywhere he damn well pleased - just as long as OUR oil prices didn't escalate. Weren't the old days wonderful? A time when the USG could force countries like Iraq to sell oil at or below cost? And isn't that the entire point of "allowing" Iraq to sell oil at the rate of some 50 billion dollars every six months (IIRC)? On the one hand, we "embargo" all food and medicines, for their own good of course, and on the other hand we are "willing" to forego that embargo, *if it benefits us*. This has ZERO to do with Kuwait or weaponry, and *everything* to do with the US id - we want *what* we want, *when* we want it, and at the *price* we want it, *OR ELSE*. Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sorens at workmail.com Thu Dec 24 18:32:46 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:32:46 +0800 Subject: EAY, SSLeay, and Open Source (Re: [ssl-users] Re: C2Net announces OpenSSL Project) In-Reply-To: <199812242235.WAA09814@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <368302FD.81FE80B3@workmail.com> Adam Back wrote: > This is confusing, several people have alluded that there will be no > future versions of SSLeay from Eric and friends. Would someone in the > know care to divulge the goods: why is this? > > Has Eric suffered an accident? Been incarcerated by the Australian > spooks in retaliation for major contributions to crypto deployment? > Has he been bought out by the dark side (say microsoft?). Had a major > change of philosophy regarding open source? EAY was amongst the > "least likely to go closed source" I thought. > > What gives? I seem to to recall sometime ago when he was being pressured by the Oz Gubmint, and decided that going corporate was a decent way out. From what I recall, he ended up on the RSA payroll. Sayonara buggy freeware. From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 19:30:17 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:30:17 +0800 Subject: Sammerseers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual Property(i.e.apache Message-ID: <199812250309.EAA07755@replay.com> To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net cc: Subject: Sameers ande C2 Nets Appropriation of Apache-SSL(Bens Code) -------- For the clueless or history deficient C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases a mod_ssl.c of his design... result?? C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc) so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project (mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...) I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly) how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ? the turds in Sameers Swimming pool p.s. to the clueless Jim Finder..Happy now asshole...? BTW I will post when and where I feel like ! From honig at sprynet.com Thu Dec 24 19:56:44 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:56:44 +0800 Subject: bug recipes In-Reply-To: <0c21a12a18cbe07b583b092c04c69544@anonymous> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981224192449.0083eba0@m7.sprynet.com> At 11:28 PM 12/23/98 -0800, Pallas Anonymous Remailer wrote: >doubt a skeleton could harbor usable smallpox but I am not up on my biology >tonight. > --Skrill IANA microbio, but recently someone sequenced enough pathogen in an unearthed bubonic victim's dental plaque to confirm Mr. yersinia's role... Lets hope the crazies realize the containment problems... From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 24 20:02:45 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:02:45 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199812250405.WAA02538@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:50:34 -0600 (CST) > From: Missouri FreeNet Administration > Subject: Re: I must admit. . . > On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter: > > > :, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one > :expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of > :enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. > > I believe this is the the only true argument here. The US (and you) are > not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the > worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG. Actualy there are equivalent oil and gas deposits in SE Asia and Antartica. But they doesn't belong to the USG either. Of course the point is valid. Though it almost begs the question of why in such a situation there is not a more powerful search for alternatives. There are actualy very few technologies that care whether oil or gas is used in energy production or some entirely different process. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 20:03:02 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:03:02 +0800 Subject: and justice for all but the Goldmans and Jones Message-ID: <199812250338.EAA09396@replay.com> At 10:09 AM 12/24/98 -0800, Eric Murray wrote: >Anonymous writes: > >> I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming >> will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors >> rights and jury nullification. >> >> Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? > >No, it's a bad idea. The ends do not justify the means. > The ends: justice. The means: a common abuse, which perchance should be illegal like junkfax, but isn't. The means: in the late 90s the people had the chance, for a few years, before the XC Massacre, to publish without convincing corporations. Do the math. From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 20:03:09 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:03:09 +0800 Subject: land of the free Message-ID: <199812250340.EAA09452@replay.com> At 08:24 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you >should also put something in there to educate the masses about >how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good >idea. Trouble and expense of what? If you refer to the FIJA spamming, then you will simply confuse the sheeple with too many issues. From nobody at replay.com Thu Dec 24 20:10:55 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:10:55 +0800 Subject: spamactivism Message-ID: <199812250347.EAA10171@replay.com> At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming >will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors >rights and jury nullification. > >Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? Education can only be for the good. Got an anonymous ecash account of some sort? In either case, kudos. From jim_finder at hotmail.com Thu Dec 24 21:33:45 1998 From: jim_finder at hotmail.com (jim finder) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:33:45 +0800 Subject: Sammers eers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual Message-ID: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com> Anonymous writes: >For the clueless or history deficient > >C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation >Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then >had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl >for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases >a mod_ssl.c of his design... result?? >C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc) >so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project >(mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future >verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...) >I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it >again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly) >how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ? > > the turds in Sameers Swimming pool >p.s. to the clueless Jim Finder..Happy now asshole...? No, I'm afraid I'm not. Could you offer either verifiable evidence of the above, or at least back up your accusation by signing your name? Either would be better than making an anonymous accusation that we have no way to verify. I'm sorry I wasn't privy to what ever went on behind the scene between C2NET, Ben, Ralf, Eric, etc., but I think I speak for most readers when I admit that I wasn't. Ben made a serious accusation that an important member of the open sources and crypto community has a hidden agenda to subvert the availability of open source crypto code. If it is false, let this stop. If it's true, then let's shout it far and wide, and deny them the support of the community. Anonymous and unverifiable accusations advance neither case All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to decide how much of it should stick. Right now, all I can conclude is that there is plenty of shit to go around. Ben, would you please spell out your side of the story, and Sameer, would you do likewise so that we can figure this out? Anonymous, put up or shut up. Jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Alten at home.com Thu Dec 24 22:57:40 1998 From: Alten at home.com (Alex Alten) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:57:40 +0800 Subject: mysterious PGP release-signing keys In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981223195440.00b29970@mail> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981224212522.009fd100@mail> >> This is yet another a good example of why one should never confuse using PK >> certificates with security. An email PGP signature looks impressive but in >> practice it is useless. > >It is usefull iff you can verify the validity of the used PK certificate. >That's what the web of trust in PGP is for. > Unfortunately the "if" is false. I have no idea if your fancy PK signature really represents you. Just look at the recent trouble Black Unicorn has had with someone else using the same name affiliated with a key stored on the Network Associates PGP key server. Dave could not verify a PK signature for the PGP software distribution itself. PKI, or a web of trust, looks good on paper but in practice it does not work when scaled up to large numbers of networked users. - Alex -- Alex Alten Alten at Home.Com Alten at TriStrata.Com P.O. Box 11406 Pleasanton, CA 94588 USA (925) 417-0159 From ocnarb at usa.net Thu Dec 24 23:33:03 1998 From: ocnarb at usa.net (ocnarb at usa.net) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:33:03 +0800 Subject: A #1 SECRET PROFIT MACHINE!!! Message-ID: <199812250703.PAA06394@home.> We'll Pay You To Make Our Phone Ring... 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Don't just take my word for it - listen to some amazing testimonials from existing members: 1-888-446-6951 (He made $10,000 his first month) 1-888-446-6949 (He erased all his debt in one month) 1-888-715-0642 (She averages $1,000 every week) 1-888-703-5389 (He can't believe it's this easy) You also have the peace of mind of offering one of the best products available: a lifetime membership in a discount service providing guaranteed lowest prices on over 250,000 products and services. Hotel & Travel Services, Major Appliances, Dentists, Legal Services, 8.9 cents/minute long-distance, Groceries... YOU CAN START TODAY - CALL NOW: 1-800-811-2141 (ID # 60282) 8am - 10pm CST Mon-Sat. If you wish to be removed simply place remove in the subject area and you will be removed from the list. Thank you! Have a great Holiday! From howree at cable.navy.mil Fri Dec 25 01:00:58 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:00:58 +0800 Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information In-Reply-To: <199812241607.RAA29858@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981225183903.00af62a0@205.83.192.13> If you wanted to be sure the remailers were full of something else while you sent something anon and sensitive, it might make good camoflage for the other. Besides the public service announcement. Someone addressed reliability of remailers with the ability of watchers to retrace a particular post and tied it to the volume of SPAM currently traveling through the same box. In a nutshell, the more SPAM being transmitted, the more difficult it is/would be to retrace any one particular email. Is there a decent retelling of this anywhere, or has anyone found or authored additional information on it??? At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming >will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors >rights and jury nullification. > >Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? > > > From howree at cable.navy.mil Fri Dec 25 01:36:17 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:36:17 +0800 Subject: I must admit. . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981224151942.0388eb40@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981225190607.00af43c0@205.83.192.13> At 07:50 PM 12/24/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: >On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter: > > >:, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one >:expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of >:enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. > >I believe this is the the only true argument here. The US (and you) are >not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the >worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG. If Hussein were >to have remained a US puppet, he could do pretty much as he damn well >pleased, anywhere he damn well pleased - just as long as OUR oil prices >didn't escalate. Lots of dictators around the world do pretty much as they please anyway. Remember it was a world community effort to force Hussein back and restore Kuwait, NOT something the US undertook solely upon its own. > Weren't the old days wonderful? A time when the USG could force >countries like Iraq to sell oil at or below cost? And isn't that the >entire point of "allowing" Iraq to sell oil at the rate of some 50 billion >dollars every six months (IIRC)? On the one hand, we "embargo" all food >and medicines, for their own good of course, and on the other hand we are >"willing" to forego that embargo, *if it benefits us*. The USG could force countries like Iraq to sell at or below cost? You are forgetting OPEC, the international bankers cartel and other organizations where the reins of power are really located. > This has ZERO to do with Kuwait or weaponry, and *everything* to >do with the US id - we want *what* we want, *when* we want it, and at the >*price* we want it, *OR ELSE*. But of course. by manufacturing a boogey man to blame all the evil on, no one would ever suspect there was a 3rd party involved, now would they? This is growing old, lets take it offlist if you want to pursue it. From howree at cable.navy.mil Fri Dec 25 01:41:37 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:41:37 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... In-Reply-To: <199812250405.WAA02538@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981225192104.00b00100@205.83.192.13> At 10:05 PM 12/24/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:50:34 -0600 (CST) >> From: Missouri FreeNet Administration >> Subject: Re: I must admit. . . > >> On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter: >> >> >> :, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one >> :expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of >> :enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. >> >> I believe this is the the only true argument here. The US (and you) are >> not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the >> worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG. > >Actualy there are equivalent oil and gas deposits in SE Asia and Antartica. >But they doesn't belong to the USG either. > >Of course the point is valid. Though it almost begs the question of why in >such a situation there is not a more powerful search for alternatives. There >are actualy very few technologies that care whether oil or gas is used in >energy production or some entirely different process. > Which point? Yours, or J.A.'s??? I thought the point wasn't about control of that segment of the oil supply, I was voicing my personal opinion there. Rather, the point was about the sanction of a sovereign neighbor nation, and our (The US's) actions in forcing Hussein back as part of a world community effort. Whether our "sticking our noses into it" as J.A. said earlier, was justifiable. I agree we should be pursuing alternative energies with greater diligence, I'd like to see what the petroleum companies have on their shelves and are suppressing. Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From jamesd at echeque.com Fri Dec 25 01:46:21 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:46:21 +0800 Subject: Sammers eers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual In-Reply-To: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199812250927.BAA06007@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- At 11:12 PM 12/24/98 -0600, jim finder wrote: > All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at > each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone > bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to > decide how much of it should stick. Probably none of it should stick: This a dispute over forking the source. The community should support the fork that comes out with the most good code and sound design, rather than the fork that throws the most mud. And it probably will. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 8dYM2+HBC2DOTPZd47psy4oa6jQrtoVVJul6/wR6 4ld5hqkTmnsShU9zXzjoabREGevAsHFbEwShXZxGJ ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From rivers at twistedtunes.com Fri Dec 25 03:50:09 1998 From: rivers at twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:50:09 +0800 Subject: It's Christmast Time Message-ID: <08d5531011119c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com> Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you? From rivers at twistedtunes.com Fri Dec 25 03:55:24 1998 From: rivers at twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:55:24 +0800 Subject: It's Christmast Time Message-ID: <08ced33011119c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com> Hi Twisted Tunes fans! Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com We are stepping up our production schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added. If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store is stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer. As always, thanks for your support... Bob Rivers PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest. What do I got to do to prove it to you? From riburr at shentel.net Fri Dec 25 05:14:40 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:14:40 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981225192104.00b00100@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <36838BA9.1BE2E8DF@shentel.net> Reeza! wrote: > I agree we should be pursuing alternative energies with greater diligence, > I'd like to see what the petroleum companies have on their shelves and are > suppressing. I bet there's a lot of shelf space (and mercenary funding) devoted to making profits from Caspian Sea oil. Voluminous oil reserves, land-locked, begging for a drainage shunt into the Black Sea, Mediterranean or Persian Gulf. The Persian Gulf heads the list except that pipelines would traverse enemy territory. Well, well, well... Iraq has interesting possibilities. Demonize the present head of state and his regime, use US military to soften up the resistance, incite opposition movements, oil companies merge to fund the insurgency... drooling over the thought of getting in on the ground floor. Then kick back as oil flow meters spin like slot machines that pay out every spin. We'd be stupid not to play. From nobody at remailer.ch Fri Dec 25 05:34:39 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:34:39 +0800 Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information Message-ID: <19981225131927.24903.qmail@hades.rpini.com> Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you should also put something in there to educate the masses about how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good idea. From shamrock at netcom.com Fri Dec 25 05:35:37 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:35:37 +0800 Subject: Sameers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual Property(i.e.apache In-Reply-To: <199812250309.EAA07755@replay.com> Message-ID: <000001be3009$9a806fe0$f3176dc2@lucky.zks.net> [Coderpunks distribution removed] Anonymous wrote: > For the clueless or history deficient > > C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation > Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then > had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl > for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases > a mod_ssl.c of his design... result?? I've heard a number of descriptions of the history of Apache-SSL-US (later Stronghold) over the years, but Anon's version of history is not supported by the facts. First of all, Stronghold does not use a line of Ben's Apache-SSL code. Hasn't for years. C2Net switched to the Sioux code base when they acquired Sioux from Thawte. Which was a long time ago. > C2's business worldwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc) > so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project > (mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future > verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...) > I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it > again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly) > how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ? [Out of courtesy, I won't comment on C2Net's present difficulties other than that they have little to do with mod_ssl]. Fast forward a few years. Ralph releases mod_ssl, by all accounts a very well done SSL integration with Apache. mod_ssl implements some much overdue cleanups that for whatever reasons never made it into Ben's Apache-SSL. I don't know if C2Net is moving to use mod_ssl, but given the quality of the module, I would not be surprised. Either way, mod_ssl is under BSD-style license and C2Net is free to use mod_ssl in their commercial products. Meanwhile, troubles developed in SSLeay land. The entire recent discussion about OpenSSL on the various lists must be rather confusing if one doesn't know the current status of SSLeay. [Hint: it would be really nice if this finally was announced by those who should be doing the announcement. Which isn't me]. Suffice to say that it is unlikely in the extreme that SSLeay or the SSLapps will continue to be maintained by their original development team, Eric Young and Tim Hudson. Rather than complain about this turn of events, let's all thank Eric and Tim for the awesome work they performed for cryptographic freedom and the Internet community. Big thanks guys! Those that feel inclined to complain about the situation are strongly encouraged to write an open source software implementation of the importance, complexity, and size of SSLeay prior to voicing their complaints. With future SSLeay development in limbo, somebody needs to ensure continued development. Unfortunately, the launch of such a framework was overshadowed by Sameer and Ben slugging out their personal differences on mailing lists. It was silly and downright rude for anyone to announce the formation of such a group before first giving the usual suspects a courtesy heads-up. But this too will hopefully be water under the bridge before long (just please remember it for the next time). Meanwhile, the best of wishes for the OpenSSL project. [Disclaimer: I am an ex-C2Net employee] Happy holidays, --Lucky From measl at mfn.org Fri Dec 25 07:52:45 1998 From: measl at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:52:45 +0800 Subject: spamactivism In-Reply-To: <199812250347.EAA10171@replay.com> Message-ID: Go for it. You *may* even be able to help raise this money by solicitation of LEO's. No, I am *not* kidding here, I know several who are *very* active in this area... Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 25 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: :Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:47:41 +0100 :From: Anonymous :To: cypherpunks at toad.com :Subject: spamactivism : : :At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: :>I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming :>will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors :>rights and jury nullification. :> :>Anyone thinks that it is a good idea? : :Education can only be for the good. : :Got an anonymous ecash account of some sort? In either case, kudos. : : : : : : : : : : : : : : From jim at jaguNET.com Fri Dec 25 09:35:54 1998 From: jim at jaguNET.com (Jim Jagielski) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 01:35:54 +0800 Subject: [apache-ssl] Re: Sammers eers Theft of Ben lauries Intellectual In-Reply-To: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199812251712.MAA11829@devsys.jaguNET.com> jim finder wrote: > > > All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at > each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone > bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to > decide how much of it should stick. Right now, all I can > conclude is that there is plenty of shit to go around. > As in any "campaign", it appears that mud and shit are the first things to get flung. I'm familiar with some background and some of the issues. Unfortunately, what we are faced with is the idea that one group wants to "own" the concept of an Open SSL project. This is certainly not the way to start a successful, open source, group-based project. People are pretty astute. If they feel that one project is a sham over the other, that it simply exists to stroke some egos or make sure that certain people's names are mentioned when SSL is discussed, then people aren't going to contribute. -- =========================================================================== Jim Jagielski ||| jim at jaguNET.com ||| http://www.jaguNET.com/ "That's no ordinary rabbit... that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever laid eyes on" From jar at rci.net Fri Dec 25 11:27:46 1998 From: jar at rci.net (Jack Rusher) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:27:46 +0800 Subject: OpenSSL Message-ID: <001d01be3039$2d9410a0$31a7fea9@oemcomputer> >I'm familiar with some background and some of the issues. Unfortunately, >what we are faced with is the idea that one group wants to "own" the >concept of an Open SSL project. This is certainly not the way to start >a successful, open source, group-based project. Hey, everybody, here is a novel idea: Why don't we look at this as a great opportunity to make some really good free software that will make all of our lives easier. It is time for the free SSL implementation to move into a larger (and more continously updated) group project. OpenSSL is a great idea, a great name for the idea, and it is the right time to do it. So, how about we stop looking at this as a pissing contest between some strong personalities? There are alot of talented developers on this list, and I think that we would all be better off working together than turning into a bunch of bitter, petty, ego driven camps that are primarily concerned with proving how large their genitals are. What I am trying to say is, if (for instance) Ben and Ralph would like to sit down for a pint and make nice with one another, I am buying. Name the pub, in the neutral country of your choice, and we are there. ;-) j. From nobody at nowhere.to Fri Dec 25 12:14:30 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 04:14:30 +0800 Subject: OpenSSL (whoever picks up the banner) Yeah!! Message-ID: To: cypherpunks at toad.com cc: Subject: Open Source separate from the Crypto export battle -------- Happy What ever to you all ! gee Anonymous... you seem to be quite angry... or a feeble provacateurs attempt to cause division in the ranks(Infowar Level 1 perhaps??) (as if there wasnt enough already...) I think its vitally important to recognize Sameers and C2Nets contribution to fighting against both the US bullshit export laws and to good quality cryptographic software... Stronghold while NOT open source has been a vital and much appreciated part of the battle against the eavesdroppers at the NSA/Interpol/GCHQ etc. I am however somewhat guarded about how Open Source OpenSSL will remain. For example will competitors to C2net be able to use it without licensing or fees to C2net in some form..? I would also like to thank Ben Laurie for making the patches available. A lot of sites run these worldwide. I sincerely wish the anonymous flamers would cease and desist you are contributing as much garbage as the average spammer to these lists If people dont make a profit from crypto activities... then there wont be any crypto... Again Sameer thanx for all you have done.. Seasons greetings Anon. From rcballen at mindspring.com Fri Dec 25 15:33:52 1998 From: rcballen at mindspring.com (rcballen at mindspring.com) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:33:52 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <000701be3064$2ae70a80$3a3556d1@default> GAY � From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Fri Dec 25 15:52:06 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:52:06 +0800 Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information Message-ID: <237d9e70288755e31703fff1b66beb98@anonymous> >Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you >should also put something in there to educate the masses about >how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good >idea. And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how crypto may help end spam. Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to alienate anybody who might care what you have to say. While you're spamming, maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad. Hell, go ahead and put the list address as the "From" address. It will shut down the list, make us look like idiots, and accomplish very little, but it's for a good cause. After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's eliminate privacy rights. The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and stupid I've heard on this list in a while. Both of you read "The Prince" one too many times. From bettyrubble at 193.230.240.21 Sat Dec 26 09:52:36 1998 From: bettyrubble at 193.230.240.21 (bettyrubble at 193.230.240.21) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:52:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ecstasy, The means & the way to a true orgasm! 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When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ...� thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...� "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.� Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.� Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.� Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.� Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?� They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.� Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS ������ Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. ������ Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.� One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.� This chemical attracts more females to him.� It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.� WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.� It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product.� Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE� will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.� McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE� according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.�� One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.� Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. ������������������������ *** � For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. �������������������������*** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.� Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. ������������������������SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,� 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card� ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,� along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: ������������������������ Euphoria Products Dept. 202 ���� 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 ����������������������� � Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please call: 1-888-745-6328 From swedegirl at 193.230.240.21 Sat Dec 26 09:53:20 1998 From: swedegirl at 193.230.240.21 (swedegirl at 193.230.240.21) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:53:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Have you been married a long time, Spice it up! Message-ID: <199812261748.BAA08405@ns> BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! PHEROMONES in the News! >From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.� Radio and Television Stations worldwide.� All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. "PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,� he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"� but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS "The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." FORTUNE MAGAZINE:� "An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ...� thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...� "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.� Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.� Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.� Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.� Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?� They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.� Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS ������ Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. ������ Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.� One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.� This chemical attracts more females to him.� It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.� WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.� It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product.� Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE� will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.� McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE� according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.�� One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.� Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. ������������������������ *** � For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. �������������������������*** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.� Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. ������������������������SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,� 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card� ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,� along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: ������������������������ Euphoria Products Dept. 202 ���� 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 ����������������������� � Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please call: 1-888-745-6328 From jaltman at watsun.cc.columbia.edu Fri Dec 25 18:03:32 1998 From: jaltman at watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:03:32 +0800 Subject: [ssl-users] OpenSSL Message-ID: OpenTLS would be a much better name given the standards process in the IETF. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support at kermit-project.org From kkG_UUn.4 at my.musicblvd.com Fri Dec 25 18:18:16 1998 From: kkG_UUn.4 at my.musicblvd.com (Music Boulevard) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:18:16 +0800 Subject: Announcing our Store Wide Sale! Message-ID: <199812260151.RAA13895@pm1.postdirect.com> Dear Cypher, Happy Holidays! We're excited to announce our most spectacular sale of the year. It's a store wide sale and that means you'll save on absolutely EVERYTHING in our store! Come choose from over 300,000 CDs and music merchandise, but hurry! This fantastic sale ends on January 8, 1998 at 5:00 PM EST. http://p0.com/r.d?wg9yny1Tk=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5226_0_main.txt Want to get your favorite music at your fingertips... 24 hours a day? Then sign up for My Music Boulevard, click here, http://my.musicblvd.com/?m=2647&u=487322 It's a customized online service where Music Boulevard brings you your very own personalized home page, hot New Releases (before they're available in stores), Artist Spotlights, Breaking News, Gossip and Special Promotions... Happy Holidays and Happy New Year! Chris Hoerenz Store Manager www.musicblvd.com POST--> P.S. If, for any reason, you'd prefer not to receive future updates or announcements from Music Boulevard, you may reply to this email and type "unsubscribe" as the subject line of your reply. From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 25 18:39:52 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:39:52 +0800 Subject: jury spam justifiable? Message-ID: <199812260214.DAA17226@replay.com> At 12:35 AM 12/26/98 -0000, HyperReal-Anon wrote: >And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's >for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how >crypto may help end spam. Its not stealing because only the Govt can identify crimes. And they haven't. Legal Junk mail doesn't steal time? Legal Solicitors' phone calls don't steal? Taxes don't steal? Courtroom injustice isn't a theft of rights? >Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to >alienate anybody who might care what you have to say. The message must be phrased correctly. >While you're spamming, >maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad. Who mentioned any mailing list? This would be a private matter. >After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm >your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking >for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's >eliminate privacy rights. Alls fair in love and war. >The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and The sheeple who haven't figured out how to filter spam are the ones most in need of education. Do it for the children. For the future generations. The only thing evil needs to succeed is for good to do nothing. Or just carry on with the same old same old, if that's what makes you feel better. Best not to make waves, after all. Might scare the horses. From b3177 at postmark.net Fri Dec 25 20:35:24 1998 From: b3177 at postmark.net (b3177 at postmark.net) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:35:24 +0800 Subject: Are You Doing This ? Message-ID: <199812260402.WAA01297@galaxy.galstar.com> Would You Put 2 Stamps On An Envelope... That Only Needed 1 ? Are You Paying More Than You Have To... For Long Distance & Phone Services ??? We Offer 1st Class Fiber-Optic Phone Services >From Major Carriers - At Group Discount Rates ! *8.9 Cents/Min (24 Hours/Day) (Even Lower-See Below) *Receive 30 Minutes Of F-R-E-E Calling For Signing Up *6 Second Billing (Saves 20% More) *NO Sign-Up Fees *NO Monthly Billing Fees *NO Minimum Usage *No Gimmicks Toll-Free Numbers Are Also Only 8.9 Cents/Min With 6 Second Billing & No Set-Up/Transfer Fee Callings Cards - Just 14.9 Cents/Min 6 Second Billing - NO " Bong " Charges P-L-U-S Get 30 Minutes Of FREE Calling For EACH Person That You Refer Who Signs Up For Service. Refer 3 People Who Sign Up And YOUR Rate Lowers To: 7.9 CENTS/MIN - PERMANENTLY ! A-N-D EVERYONE That You Refer, Who Signs Up For Service, ALSO Gets 30 Minutes Of FREE Calling ! Get Your Final Cost Per Minute Down To 5 Cents/Min, 3 Cents/Min, Even Down To ZERO - With Our Referral Program - It's Totally FREE To You & The People That You Refer ! When We Get A Lower Rate - YOUR Rate Goes DOWN A-U-T-O-M-A-T-I-C-A-L-L-Y. Unlike Other Carriers, Our Prices Have NEVER Gone Up - Only Down - And They Continue To Do So ! Call Us Today For More Info - Or To Sign Up ! 1-888-333-4943 (TOLL-FREE) Monday-Friday 10 AM - 10 PM Eastern P. S. We Receive Hundreds Of Calls Per Day. If Lines Are Busy - Keep Trying. This Is An Information And Sign-Up Line.If You Sign-Up For The Service, You Will Have The Direct Toll-Free Numbers For Our Customer Service & Billing Departments. From az096 at freenet.toronto.on.ca Fri Dec 25 20:38:06 1998 From: az096 at freenet.toronto.on.ca (Robert Guerra) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:38:06 +0800 Subject: international free crypto campaign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi: Please feel free to submit via my www page any "crypto campaign" links to my pgp & crypto links page. It's located at : http://www.interlog.com/~rguerra/www I hope that with enough links it will serve as a directory where groups with related interests can find each other. regards robert Robert Guerra WWW Page PGPKeys -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2 Comment: Digital Signatures ensure authenticity and author iQA/AwUBNoRj+MKdCsHMpdeSEQJ+4gCgsEhoZNZKJauiYlstWeCkCwTVdTkAoPNR HQbC3TDfSzY1DLUfZOT0QDhs =JQAJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From az096 at freenet.toronto.on.ca Fri Dec 25 20:45:27 1998 From: az096 at freenet.toronto.on.ca (Robert Guerra) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:45:27 +0800 Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 8:53 PM -0500 1998/12/3, Robert Hettinga wrote: > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:42:19 +0100 > From: Anonymous > Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > > I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client was being ported to > the Mac. Does anyone know the status of this project? > Perhaps it would be an interesting project which either used the PGPsdk libraries, or GNUPG code... Robert Guerra WWW Page PGPKeys -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2 Comment: Digital Signatures ensure authenticity and author iQA/AwUBNoRj2sKdCsHMpdeSEQLnUwCfbm1vskjLT5Peanetx3Kq7Wrw5I8An2D1 wo6ePDYFqU4gPyp2fWK+v9k3 =brF8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From shamrock at netcom.com Fri Dec 25 21:06:53 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:06:53 +0800 Subject: [ssl-users] OpenSSL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201be308c$1c01fe80$f3176dc2@lucky.zks.net> Make that another vote for OpenTLS. --Lucky Green PGP 5.x encrypted email preferred > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-coderpunks at toad.com [mailto:owner-coderpunks at toad.com]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman > Sent: Saturday, December 26, 1998 02:44 > To: Jack Rusher > Cc: sw-mod-ssl at engelschall.com; apache-ssl at lists.aldigital.co.uk; > cypherpunks at cyberpass.net; coderpunks at toad.com; cryptography at c2.net > Subject: Re: [ssl-users] OpenSSL > > > OpenTLS would be a much better name given the standards process in the > IETF. > > > Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for > Win32 and OS/2 > The Kermit Project * Columbia University > 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 > http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * > kermit-support at kermit-project.org > > > From rah at shipwright.com Fri Dec 25 23:00:09 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:00:09 +0800 Subject: [PNS-List] CFP: Epidemiology of Ideas Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mailing-List: contact pns-list-owner at egroups.com Reply-To: pns-list at egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-PNS-List at eGroups.com From: "Philosophy News Service List Mgr. [richard jones]" To: "'PNS-List at eGroups.com'" Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:50:49 -0500 Subject: [PNS-List] CFP: Epidemiology of Ideas To: pns-list at egroups.com From: Mariam Thalos Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS: THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF IDEAS (fwd) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:49:49 -0500 (EST) From: Barry Smith To: thalos at acsu.buffalo.edu, rapaport at cs.buffalo.edu Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS: THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF IDEAS THE MONIST An International Quarterly Journal of General Philosophical Inquiry Edited by Barry Smith http://wings.buffalo.edu/philosophy/Publications/Monet/ CALL FOR PAPERS THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF IDEAS Deadline for submissions: July 2000 Advisory Editor: Dan Sperber (CREA, Paris) mailto:sperber at poly.polytechnique.fr Both in the psychological and in the social sciences, the notion of representation plays a major role. But how are the psychological notion of a mental representation and the sociological notion of a collective or cultural representation related? While there has been a naturalistic turn in cognitive science, proposals for the naturalization of mental representations have had little or no impact on the social sciences. This may be due in part to the fact that these naturalistic proposals typically focus on the individual cognizer. Yet, a large proportion of the mental representations of a human individual are, in fact, mere individual versions of representations widely distributed in human groups. By embracing the hypothesis that populations of representations (somewhat like populations of bacteria or viruses) are hosted by human populations, it becomes possible to apply to the distribution and evolution of mental representations models derived from epidemiology, population genetics, and evolutionary theory. Cultural representations are then seen as strains of mental representations of very similar content widely distributed across a population. To approach cultural representations in this way is to look for the causal explanation of macro-scale cultural phenomena in the micro-processes of cognition and transmission. It is to engage in a kind of epidemiology of ideas. Philosophers, biologists, and anthropologists have developed a variety of such epidemiological or evolutionary models, with particular application to cultural diffusion and to the history and philosophy of science. Both philosophers and social scientists with a serious interest in philosophy are invited to contribute papers on these and related topics. ______________________________________ Department of Philosophy 611 Baldy Hall University at Buffalo 716 633 2041 Buffalo NY 14260 - 1010 fax: 716 645 6139 http://wings.buffalo.edu/philosophy/faculty/smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/pns-list Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Fri Dec 25 23:00:25 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:00:25 +0800 Subject: jury spam justifiable? Message-ID: <199812260635.HAA02005@replay.com> >At 12:35 AM 12/26/98 -0000, HyperReal-Anon wrote: >>And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's >>for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how >>crypto may help end spam. > >Its not stealing because only the Govt can identify crimes. And they >haven't. No, it's stealing. The government doesn't call the Waco incident murder, but that doesn't make it okay. >Legal Junk mail doesn't steal time? Legal Solicitors' phone calls don't >steal? Taxes don't steal? Courtroom injustice isn't a theft of rights? 1) Yes, but at least the person sending it paid for it. It doesn't consume any resources from the recipient, other than mailbox space which the government claims it owns anyway. The postal service has to store and deliver it, but they got paid for it. When you get it, you're perfectly free to cram it back in the outgoing mail slot like I do. 2) They steal time and they're very annoying, but they don't steal money per se. If they're long distance the caller pays for it. Most people are annoyed by these. The anti-phone-soliciting action is to never buy from those companies. 3) Taxes are theft at the point of a gun. You won't find much argument about that here. There will be argument when it comes to the complete elimination of taxes because that generally means the almost complete elimination of services. 4) Of course it is. Just because all four of those things are legal in one way or another doesn't mean that we should support it. I can walk outside and insult random people to their face, but that dosen't mean I should. Just because you *can* do something and you have some reason to do something doesn't mean that you *should* do it, particularly if there are better ways. > >>Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to >>alienate anybody who might care what you have to say. > >The message must be phrased correctly. The phrasing has nothing to do with it. The method of delivery does. > >>While you're spamming, >>maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad. > >Who mentioned any mailing list? This would be a private matter. Apparently this is beyond your comprehension, so I'll explain it in explicit terms. You will likely direct people to FIJA. First off, when you send the spam FIJA and their upstream sites are going to get all sorts of complaints, and rightly so. The site it originates from will also get flooded. Assuming FIJA is still online a few hours later, they will probably wind up on spam block lists. If you spam through anonymous remailers, they'll wind up on spam blocking lists all over the place. If you falsify an origin address, it will also get flooded with complaints. Even mentioning FIJA is going to get them flooded with complaints. You also make the mistake of assuming that most people read spam. They don't. It just annoys them. If you spam through anonymous remailers, you further the theories of some people that they are simply abuse havens. This is not a positive thing for the remailers. The Cypherpunks are associated with the remailers, so it isn't a positive thing for us either, even though we'll only be implicated several steps down. >>After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm >>your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking >>for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's >>eliminate privacy rights. > >Alls fair in love and war. If such tactics are fair, then why are we worrying about distributing FIJA literature? The government has our best interests at heart, after all. Whatever. >>The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and > >The sheeple who haven't figured out how to filter spam are the ones >most in need of education. Do it for the children. For the future >generations. The best thing to do "for the children" is to kick the clueless masses off the Internet and turn it back into the academic area it used to be. Good has come out of the commercialization of the Internet, but by no means does it outweigh the bad. The best thing to do "for future generations" is to revoke the voting rights of welfare maggots. I don't see it happening very soon. >The only thing evil needs to succeed is for good to do nothing. Or for good to use the means of the evil to express their good ideas, in the process becoming the very thing they are fighting against. >Or just carry on with the same old same old, if that's what makes you feel >better. Best not to make waves, after all. Might scare the horses. Make a web site. Put it in your signature. Have others put it in their signatures. Have people link to it from their pages. Advertise in *appropriate* forums in appropriate manners. It's threads like this that make me wonder what it really means to be a Cypherpunk today. If the Cypherpunks (in the democratic sense) actually support this, it is a sad day indeed. As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and spam. You'll probably make FIJA look like idiots, get some anonymous remailer sites shut down if you spam through them, screw over any site even remotely mentioned in the spam, get us blasted all over the abuse forums because it has been discussed here recently, and accomplish the exact opposite of our goals. But go ahead if that's what makes you feel better. From howree at cable.navy.mil Sat Dec 26 04:17:36 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:17:36 +0800 Subject: jury spam justifiable? In-Reply-To: <199812260635.HAA02005@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981226214451.03a76b80@205.83.192.13> There are so many comments from Anon on this thread, It defeats whole purpose of Anon. Fuck all you Anon Y. Mouses,,,, spineless bastards. I don't trumpet my true name, but my identity is findable. But you, you haven't the conviction to stand up and say...... anything. Reeza! From athena at cyberpass.net Sat Dec 26 05:12:06 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:12:06 +0800 Subject: Y2K OFFICIALS CONVENE, CONFESS Message-ID: <70b0380731c769729b7e3d31789b323d@anonymous> Attendees of a meeting convened by the United Nations confirmed that while central banking and telecommunications systems in many countries are making progress toward Y2K compliance, many other necessary systems still need help. Those include electrical power systems, global shipping systems, the linkages between telecommunications systems, and SWIFT, a system for exchanging financial information. The U.N. meeting was the first time top Y2K officials were brought together. "One of the goals of this meeting is to identify the senior executives who are dealing with the problem," says the chairman of the U.S. President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion. "We want the delegates to go home with a knowledge of faces and with agreements on going forward. We don't have time to go through normal diplomatic channels." More than 100 officials attended the meeting. (TechWeb 14 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Sat Dec 26 05:41:56 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:41:56 +0800 Subject: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator Message-ID: <19981226132002.19035.qmail@nym.alias.net> How to Spot a Government Infiltrator by Mike Johnson Those who have been studying the stories released to the media these days about the arrests of various different people within the militia movement will doubtlessly have noted that government infiltrators are usually involved. This should make people nervous. And rightly so. Our normal view of government is that the only people who should have to worry about what the government is up to are people who are breaking the law. As the vast majority of constitutional militia units are composed of people who are of good character and don't go around breaking the law to begin with, they might feel that they should have little to worry about from the government. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. The government appears to be going all out to discredit the constitutional militia movement in this country. This effort on the part of the government does include the use of government agents to infiltrate militia units and cause as many problems, hate and discontent as they possibly can. In many instances, these government agents may not be readily apparent as to who and what they are. Some of these people may have had extensive experience in working undercover operations and may not make some of the more stupid mistakes. There are a variety of different roles that such government operatives may play. The first is that they may simply act as a mole. They will do everything anybody else in the unit does, and do nothing at all to call undue attention to themselves. However, they will relay everything that goes on within the unit to their handlers. About the only indication a unit may have that they have been infiltrated by a mole may be that they can't seem to be able to keep anything a secret. This type of role is the most difficult for a unit to detect and deal with. Which is also possibly why most of the spy novels that get written deal with various different ways to smoke out moles. While I wouldn't suggest that anybody try a technique for which the only source of documentation is a work of fiction, it is an indication of just how obnoxious this type of agent could be to deal with. Another role that a government agent might play may be that of a dissipator. A dissipator is one who tries to redirect the course and energy of a unit in ways which will cause it to accomplish nothing of any importance. They may also act so as to break a unit up by emphasizing differences, disagreements and personality clashes between unit members. Given that the people who are attracted to the constitutionalist militia movement usually tend to be strong willed and opinionated people to begin with, such an agent may find that his task is somewhat easier than it might be if he were working with other groups. Unit members should simply be encouraged not to take things personally, be aware that there will be honest differences of opinion between the members of the unit, and to be wary of somebody who does try to take everything personally, or set up cliques within the unit. The final role which will be discussed is that of the agent provocateur. Such an agent infiltrates a unit and tries to get the members of the unit to actually commit crimes, or make it look like they are actually planning to commit crimes. One should also bear in mind that a government agent is not going to be confined to operating within any one of the roles that have been discussed, and may likely mix and match as they feel best. However, the role that has received the highest profile in government operations these days is that of the agent provocateur. That is largely because the results of an operation conducted by an agent provocateur or two make for good propaganda when the media gets hold of it. The resultant publicity given to the arrests and the charges gets used to brand everybody in the entire movement as a criminal. The fact that the entire thing was set up by someone in the employ of the government isn't going to be mentioned at all by the mainstream media. For those who haven't caught on by now, your antenna should start to quiver in the presence of any one, or especially a combination of the following behaviors/patterns demonstrated by a unit member: (1) Wants to make bombs. (2) Wants to get everybody else to make bombs. (3) Wants people to buy/store large quantities of substances which could be used for explosives manufacture. (4) Fanatic about obtaining fully automatic weapons, without benefit of Class III license. (5) No obvious means of support, especially if they have lots of money to throw around. (6) Auto license tag changed on an irregular basis. (7) Encourages people to plan/do stupid things (raid armories, blow up office buildings, etc.) (8) Some groups can get auto tags run. They should be especially suspicious of anybody whose auto tag turns up a complete blank when run. (9) In our case, the guy was absolutely paranoid about his car being out of either his sight or his "wife's" sight for even a trivial amount of time. (10) Person claims to have a military background that they do not have. One individual claimed to be former Special Forces, but was found to be ignorant of some of the things that he should have known when quizzed by people who were former Special Forces. Depending on the level of trust that the members of your group have with each other, it might be a good idea to request to see the DD-214s of anybody claiming to have a military background. (11) One of your members has taken effective action to expose or block activities of the police or government preventing the expansion of or preservation of government power to control people and/or invade the privacy of the people. (12) One of your members (a) has an FFL; or (b) is involved in selling at gun shows; or (c) Is involved in promoting gun shows. Arguably the best way to deal with people who meet criteria 1-10 is simply to invite them to leave the unit. As Starr and McCranie found out, trying to turn them in will do no good at all, so the next best bet is to try to get them to leave. Failing that, disband unit, start again from scratch with people you can trust after sufficient elapsed time. Given the way things are going right now, those who have not joined up with public units may want to consider forming small closed units with just a small group of people that they have known for a long time and that they trust. For persons in 11, and 12: Do your best to be sure the goons cannot find a pretext as that is what they often work from. (*) Bill Albert of the Michigan Militia contributed to the list of items to look for and the discussion which follows it. From nobody at remailer.ch Sat Dec 26 05:48:17 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:48:17 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981226133009.1692.qmail@hades.rpini.com> "If you don't learn how to beat your plowshares into swords before they outlaw swords, then you sure as HELL ought to learn before they outlaw plowshares too. " --Chuck Hammill #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Sat Dec 26 06:55:20 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:55:20 +0800 Subject: Posse Comitatus Message-ID: <19981226142005.14320.qmail@nym.alias.net> The Military's Growing Involvement In Domestic Law Enforcement For more than a century the U.S. military has been banned from involvement in routine domestic law enforcement. This tradition of separating the role of national defense from domestic law enforcement has it's origins in the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. This law prohibits the army from being involved in domestic arrests, or in searches and seizures. This ban was later extended to the other services. It was passed in response to abuses committed by occupation troops in the South after the Civil War. This long tradition, which has helped to insure liberty and democracy for Americans, was quietly abandoned in 1989 when Congress and the Bush administration ordered the military into the "war on drugs". Since then the Pentagon has spent more than $7 billion on counter-drug activities, using tens of thousands of active duty and reserve personnel. Active duty units are primarily used to monitor and patrol for drug smuggling activity using sophisticated surveillance and communication systems. These units are assisted by thousands of National Guard troops whose activities are not normally restrained by the Posse Comitatus legislation. This allows them to perform routine police activities such as inspecting cargo, analyzing intelligence, and translating wiretapped conversations. The military's involvement in domestic policing activities has now been institutionalized and is being coordinated in the Defense Department by the Joint Task Force Six (JTF-6). Supporter of using the military in drug enforcement activities argue that drug use threatens the country economically and socially. Some military commanders see counter-drug operations as providing troops with useful training. While law enforcement officials see it as an opportunity to benefit from sophisticated surveillance and communication systems that they wouldn't normally have access to. Opponents of giving the military domestic law enforcement responsibilities and powers remind supporter of the abuses by troops that originally lead to passage of the Posse Comitatus legislation. They also point out that the military's involvement in drug enforcement efforts haven't had any discernible impact on the availability of drugs in the United States; so why take the risk of losing our liberties when we gain nothing in return. People need to ask themselves where the movement to involve the military in domestic policing activities is going to stop. Are Somalia, Hati, and Bosnia simply peacekeeping activities, or are they being used to train U.S. troops for the near future when they will be patrolling the streets of the United States as they now patrol Bosnia. #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From nobody at seclab.com Sat Dec 26 07:26:12 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:26:12 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199812261455.PAA21979@rogue.seclab.com> Internet is slowing China's efforts to maintain control To eliminate political opposition by the China Democratic Party, Chinese authorities are putting prominent dissidents on trial for "inciting the overthrow of state power," but the Internet is making it difficult for them to accomplish their goal. The Washington, D.C.-based electronic magazine VIP Reference is a widely-used news source and network for dissident activities. Boston University professor Merle Goldman says, "It was relatively easy for the authorities to get rid of Democracy Walls in Beijing and in other cities in 1979, but it is virtually impossible to close down the use of the Internet as a means of political communication." (Washington Post 18 Dec 98) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]} From die at die.com Sat Dec 26 12:30:37 1998 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:30:37 +0800 Subject: [g8hxe@zetnet.co.uk: [WUN] MAR: MILLENIUM BUG] Message-ID: <19981226144702.A23871@die.com> ----- Forwarded message from Keith Haywood ----- Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:19:37 GMT Cc: keith.haywood at icl.com Hi all, I caught the following NAVTEX intercepts last night and thought they may be of interest to others, all were received on 518KHz. They are being repeated frequently be all the U/K stations and the Netherlands Coastguard, and similar messages are being broadcast by some of the Scandinavian stations. --- log opened Fri Dec 25 1998 00:00:20 UTC --- 05:31:06 UTC ZCZC OB07 05:33:09 UTC PORTPATRICKRADIO 05:33:43 UTC ZCZC OA40 05:33:46 UTC NAVAREA ONE 533 05:33:48 UTC YEAR 2000 AND MILLENIUM BUG. 05:33:54 UTC 1ST JAN 1999 IS THE FIRST OF SEVERAL CRITICAL DATES THROUGH 05:34:05 UTC 1999 AND 2000 WHEN SOME ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS MAY FAIL DUE TO 05:34:16 UTC THEIR INABILITY TO PROCESS THE DATE. SUCH SYSTEMS INCLUDE 05:34:27 UTC AUTOMATION AND SAFETY SYSTEMS WHOSE FAILURE MAY RESULT IN 05:34:38 UTC LOSS OF POWER, STEERING OR MALFUNCTIONING OF NAVIGATIONAL 05:34:45 UTC OR COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT. 05:34:50 UTC MASTERS ARE ADVISED TO CONSIDER CONTINGENCY PLANS IN 05:34:56 UTC PREPARATION FOR POSSIBLE FAILURE, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT OF THE 05:35:07 UTC OPERATIONAL PROGRAMME OF THE SHIP. 05:35:09 UTC GUIDANCE ON THE RISKS AND PRECAUTIONARY ACTION, HAS BEEN 05:35:20 UTC PUBLISHED BY THE INTERNATIONAL MARITIME ORGANISATION AS 05:35:31 UTC MSC/CIRC.868, 'ADDRESSING THE YEAR 2000 PROBLEM', AND AS AS A 05:35:42 UTC CORRECTION TO ALL VOLUMES OF THE UKHO ADMIRALTY LIST OF RADIO SIGNALS. 05:35:49 UTC CANCEL THIS MESSAGE 012359Z JAN 99. 05:35:54 UTC NNNN 07:52:24 UTC ZCZC PA47 07:52:36 UTC NETHERLANDS COASTGUARD 07:52:40 UTC NAVIGATIONALWARNING NR 47 250730UTC DEC 07:52:46 UTC EQUIPMENT FAILURE ONBOARD AND ASHORE 07:52:51 UTC DUE TO THE YEAR 2000 PROBLEM: 07:52:56 UTC SHIPPING SHOUZD BEWARE THAT ON THE 07:53:01 UTC FOLLOWING DATES PROBLEMS MAY OCCUR 07:53:06 UTC ONBOARD IN ENGINES, MACHINERY, CONTROL 07:53:12 UTC AND MONITORING, COMPUTER, NAVIGATION 07:53:18 UTC AND COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT, 07:53:22 UTC DETECTION, ALARM AND OTHER SYSTEMS. 07:53:28 UTC SIMILAR PROBLEMS MAY OCCUR ASHORE 07:53:33 UTC AND MIGHT HAMPER NAVIGATION AND 07:53:38 UTC COMMUNICATION POSSIBILITIES 07:53:42 UTC FOR SHIPPING. DATES: 07:53:45 UTC 01-01-1999 , 09-09-1999 07:53:49 UTC 01-01-2000 , 29-02-2000, 01-03-2000 07:53:54 UTC 31-12-2000 , 01-01-2001, 01-03-2001 07:53:59 UTC SHIPPING IS URGENTLY ADVISED TO 07:54:04 UTC NAVIGATE WITH EXTREME CAUTION ON 07:54:09 UTC THE AFOREMENTIONED DATES AND TO 07:54:13 UTC TAKE NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS WHERR 07:54:18 UTC POSSIBLE. 07:54:20 UTC CANCEL THIS MESSAGE 012359UTC JAN 99 07:54:25 UTC NNNN Keith Haywood G8HXE Manchester U/K. --- The Worldwide UTE News (WUN) mailing list. WUN is a non-profit, dues-free club established in 1995 to share information on shortwave utilities. For more information: http://www.gem.net/~berri/wun/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From jbaskind at home.com Sat Dec 26 14:05:47 1998 From: jbaskind at home.com (John Baskind) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:05:47 +0800 Subject: Membership (One user says:) In-Reply-To: <199812261452.JAA16580@devsys.jaguNET.com> Message-ID: [long and acrimonious discussion, at present ending with this message, clipped] > Let's recall that once this ``situation'' is resolved, the list of > volunteer members/coders will likely increase. Many, I'm sure, myself > included, have held back. I am following this discussion with some alarm, and I am sure that many others who rely on everyone involved in this acrimony to keep our sites running are too. I think competition is very important, and the sort of internal competition you lot are involved in is crucial to the continued speedy evolution of the critical software you are making ( for us users, please be reminded). Those who rely on your skills and expertise--in other words, the vast majority of Apache users, which means, apparently, some 50% of the active Web at this point, NEED you, all of you, as a group. to continue to share your brains and their collective product, with us. Because the vast majority of us couldn't do what you do if our lives depended on it. I use mod_ssl, purely because it seemed easier to install and compile than Apache_SSL, and I really like Ralf's installation notes, not because I formed any judgement about the relative excellence of mod_ssl over Apache_SSL. I am not capable of making that judgement--I rely on YOUR assessments! I really don't care if it actually is easier to install or not; --from my point of view, I honor Tim Hudson and Ben Laurie, Ralf Engelschall and all the less public members of the Apache Group equally. Each of you contributes in a different way to make my life, and therefore livelihood, simpler and more pleasant. Part of my skill set is political consulting--if there's anything I've learned, it is that mud not only sticks to both the flinger and flingee, but also clouds all the subsequent issues between both parties to a remarkably large degree. From austin at zks.net Sat Dec 26 15:30:41 1998 From: austin at zks.net (Austin Hill) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 07:30:41 +0800 Subject: Zero-Knowledge Freedom AnonymousIP Whitepaper Message-ID: <001601be3121$6f64a060$1f01a8c0@notebook.zks.net> Zero-Knowledge has put up a draft of a whitepaper explaining the technical details of it's coming Freedom Internet Privacy system. The paper discusses the technical details of our AnonymousIP protocol and our Pseudonymous E-mail System. This is an early draft and comments/questions are appreciated. People familiar with Mixmaster, PipeNet, Cypherpunk Remailers and Onion Routing will find this whitepaper to address many of the same problems with regards to Internet Anonymity & Privacy. The paper is available at http://www.zks.net/products/whitepapers.asp Thanks, Austin _________________________________________________________________________ Austin Hill Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc. President Montreal, Quebec Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226 Fax: 514.286.2755 E-mail: austin at zks.net http://www.zks.net Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal PGP Fingerprints 2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64 5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0 AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00 keys available at http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp _________________________________________________________________________ From maxinux at openpgp.net Sat Dec 26 16:34:00 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:34:00 +0800 Subject: Car computer navigator forgets to mention ferry (fwd) Message-ID: -- Max Inux Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5 Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:35:20 -0800 (PST) X-Loop: openpgp.net From: William Knowles To: DC-Stuff , aaa-list at lists.netlink.co.uk Subject: Car computer navigator forgets to mention ferry POTSDAM, Germany (AP) [12.26.98] - A German couple out for a Christmas drive near Berlin ended up in a river - apparently because their luxury car's computer forgot to mention they had to wait for a ferry. The 57-year-old driver and his passenger were not injured in the accident, police said Saturday. Several companies sell computer navigators, some of which are attached to dashboards and serve as electronic road maps. Some offer traffic updates and Internet connections. The German couple was out driving Friday night when they came to a ferry crossing at the Havel River in Caputh, six miles from Berlin. That information, however, was never stored in the satellite steered navigation system they were using, police said. The driver kept going straight in the dark, expecting a bridge, and ended up in the water. River traffic was stopped for two hours while the car was fished out about 13 feet from the river bank. ``You can't always blindly rely on technology,'' a coast guard police officer said. == Some day, on the corporate balance sheet, there will be an entry which reads, "Information"; for in most cases the information is more valuable than the hardware which processes it. -- Grace Murray Hopper == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From nobody at replay.com Sat Dec 26 21:00:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:00:50 +0800 Subject: Zero-Knowledge Freedom AnonymousIP Whitepaper Message-ID: <199812270425.FAA12203@replay.com> > Zero-Knowledge has put up a draft of a whitepaper explaining the technical > details of it's coming Freedom Internet Privacy system. > > The paper discusses the technical details of our AnonymousIP protocol and > our Pseudonymous E-mail System. > > This is an early draft and comments/questions are appreciated. Have algorithms been chosen? If I understand right, letting different users use different algos would make some users' messages look different from others while bouncing around in the network. I don't think anyone even suspects 3DES and a KEA cognate would fail. The "topologically close" tradeoff (i.e, a gain in performance for an unmeasured loss in security) seems to be more exploit-bait than optimization; it might be wiser not to enable this part of automatic route selection by default unless/until its effects on security are investigated more thoroughly. At least give me a while to make an attack on it. :) > > People familiar with Mixmaster, PipeNet, Cypherpunk Remailers and Onion > Routing will find this whitepaper to address many of the same problems with > regards to Internet Anonymity & Privacy. > > The paper is available at http://www.zks.net/products/whitepapers.asp > > Thanks, > > Austin > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Austin Hill Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc. > President Montreal, Quebec > Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226 Fax: 514.286.2755 > E-mail: austin at zks.net http://www.zks.net > > Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal > > PGP Fingerprints > 2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64 > 5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0 AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00 > keys available at > http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp > _________________________________________________________________________ From schear at lvcm.com Sat Dec 26 22:05:43 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:05:43 +0800 Subject: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: <199801192155.NAA00465@comsec.com> Message-ID: There has been quite a bit of discussion on the list of late regarding covert radio communication. I've been doing some investigation and have identified a promising low probablity of intercept technology for terrestrial, ground-to-air and earth-to-satellite communication. I'd like to assemble a small team to build and test a proof of concept. Anyone with interest and skillsplease contact me? --Steve From clinical27a at usm.edu Sun Dec 27 17:34:52 1998 From: clinical27a at usm.edu (clinical27a at usm.edu) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:34:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: ABCReport:1st Aphrodisiac Drug Appr Message-ID: <199812280131.SAA03455@lewis.mt.net> The announcement of this scientific breakthrough, has set off a media fire-storm.� In the last few days, the remarkable qualities of Androstenone Pheromones have been featured in every major publication, newspaper, national magazine, and television magazine. >From 20/20, Hard Copy, and Dateline NBC, to the N.Y. Times, and the American Journal of Modern Medicine. Several independent research institutes have concluded studies on the benefits of Androstenone (You may have heard about the most recent study on CNN.) TO READ MORE ABOUT THIS REVOLUTIONARY MEDICAL DISCOVERY and the CNN REPORT go to our new sites at : http://www.angelfire.com/on/aphrod7501/ **** OR **** http://www.nettaxi.com/citizens/aphrod7501 From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 27 10:55:22 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:55:22 +0800 Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812271815.TAA27705@replay.com> On Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:48:46 -0500 Robert Guerra wrote: >> I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client >> was being ported to the Mac. Does anyone know the status >> of this project? >Perhaps it would be an interesting project which either used the >PGPsdk libraries, or GNUPG code... What the fuck is this guy talking about? PGPsdk libraries for Mixmaster? I must admit, I was surprised not to see a (l)user at aol.com in this. Go and play on the fuckwit PGP list and give us a break over here. Razor From billp at nmol.com Sun Dec 27 15:55:49 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 07:55:49 +0800 Subject: David Angell and html Message-ID: <3686BFF8.4A4F@nmol.com> Sunday 12/27/98 4:13 PM John Young I went to http://www.page1book.com this morning looking for books on HLML. I asked the clerk what was a good book on html. The clerk pointed me to HTML 4 Unleashed, second edition, by Rick Darnell, et al. A guy standing next to me volunteered that he wrote books on computing. He advised getting a reference book, looking at examples on Internet, RESEARCH the code, then modify the RESEARCHED the code. He introduced himself. David Angell. ISDN for Dummies (--For Dummies) ~ Usually ships in 2-3 days David Angell / Paperback / Published 1996 Our Price: $19.99 ~ You Save: $5.00 (20%) http://www.amazon.com He was visiting his mother who lives in abq. Angell now lives in Austin TOO. I am on the net to download THE [your?] code at http://jya.com/crypto.htm. To RESEARCH it, of course. I am experimenting with for background for Pro Se Litigation with the US Federal Government. http://www.jya.com/nsasuit.txt Keep a good sense of humor. And up-wind too, of course. http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html I CONTINUE to recall Bob Serna�s joke. Q What is the difference between a terrorist and a woman with pms? A You can negotiate with a terrorist. We got to get this UNFORTUNATE MATTER settled BEFORE IT GETS WORSE! Later bill Thursday 12/10/98 5:08 PM J Kevin O'Brien, Chief Freedom of Information-Privacy Act Section Office of Public Affairs U.S. Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation Washington D. C. 20535 O'Brien I received your form letter dated DEC 02 1998. YES, I want the information! I return your completed form. Sandia assigned me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF. SSA Mike Uttaro was my direct contact. His boss was SSA Mike McDevitt. The FBI is breaking the law under the veil of classification abuse. I may write another article --- False Security William H. Payne Abstract Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are the easiest to counterfeit. Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com http/www.securitysolutions.com ran a full page ad. "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world . The most secure of all access card technologies. HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to alter them destroys them! ... Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed, making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of vandals. ... The secrets to the security of an HID Wiegand card are those little enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted, they won't work." Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand http://www.securitysolutions.com/ and give you insight into Real Security. Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at Sandia National Laboratories. http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm False Security William H. Payne Abstract Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are the easiest to counterfeit. Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com http/www.securitysolutions.com ran a full page ad. "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world . The most secure of all access card technologies. HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to alter them destroys them! ... Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed, making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of vandals. ... The secrets to the security of an HID Wiegand card are those little enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted, they won't work." Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand http://www.securitysolutions.com/ and give you insight into Real Security. Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at Sandia National Laboratories. http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm --- Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials Bill Payne October 16,1996 Abstract Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and inexpensive to counterfeit. Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October 1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article, Wiegand technology stands the test of time by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12 Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced wee-gand) output. However, only three companies in the world make Wiegand readers. Sensor Engineering of Hamden Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim, Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ... A Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand reader, and it is important to understand the differences. In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to translate card information around the patented Wiegand effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific magnetic field. If the pulse is generated when the wire is near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit. Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold would generate a series of pulses. Lining up two rows of wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits" - and passing them by two different coils would generate two series of pulses, or data bits. These data bits can then be interpreted as binary data and used to control other devices. If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry, you have a Wiegand reader. Carefully laminate the special wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card. IN THE BEGINNING Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control market in the late 1970s. It was immediately successful because it filled the need for durable, secure card and reader technology. Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or duplicated. ... Bodell's Last statement is incorrect. Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are 1 Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s. 2 Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card. Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can be visualized zero row | | | one row | | binary 0 1 0 0 1 representation Solutions to Task 1 A X-ray the card B MAGNI VIEW FILM, Mylar film reads magnetic fields ... Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page 205, C33,447 $11.75 is placed over the top of the Wiegand card. COW MAGNET, Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the stomachs of their cows. Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75 is placed under the card. Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film. Mark the position of the wires with a pen. Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s paper-match-sized strips. Don't worry about cutting a wire or two. Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top. A 1 has the pen mark at the bottom. Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to counterfeit the card number desired. Don't worry about spacing. Wiegand output is self-clocking! Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card. Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced! History Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA. The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION. Details of the consequences of this work are covered in Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993 State-sanctioned paranoia, EE Times, January 22, 1996 One man's battle, EE Times, March 22, 1994 Damn the torpedoes, EE Times, June 6, 1994 Protecting properly classified info, EE Times, April 11, 1994 DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases, Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995 DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection, Albuquerque Tribune, March 27, 1996 DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199 --- Here is one of my previous articles. http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1 We should get this settled before IT GETS WORSE. Black and white is an example of WORSE. bill payne -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jpg00000.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3130 bytes Desc: "" URL: From nobody at replay.com Sun Dec 27 18:15:04 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:15:04 +0800 Subject: Mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu Not Propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet Message-ID: <199812280147.CAA25100@replay.com> Has anyone else experienced posts sent via the anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news gateway not propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet's news servers? I've made a couple of posts, both anonymously and non-anonymously via that gateway, and they haven't been showing up at CIS/Sprynet. Yet they've been archived on Dejanews and replies to them from users on other servers have shown up. Is this a propagation problem, or are Compuserve and Sprynet blocking posts from that gateway? From info at aggressor.net Mon Dec 28 18:04:23 1998 From: info at aggressor.net (info) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:04:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Release Information Message-ID: <001101be32de$208c0b90$3c59aec3@aggressor.net> Dear subscriber, We are glad to inform you that "The Aggressor PRO V1.0" and "The Aggressor NTT v1.0" is now released. You may download Trial version of The Aggressor PRO from http://www.aggressor.net. * Brief list of features : - Advanced Network Sniffing Module The Aggressor PRO entitles you to monitor the network traffic on your local network. This feature enables you to read every incoming and outgoing email, monitor web access of employees or monitor irc or icq messages, it has filtering mechanism to ease viewing connections and connection logging feature for autosaving the connections and view them later. - Intrusion Detection The Aggressor's beholder module controls all connections/packets between your local network and internet, analyses incoming and outgoing packets, detects and logs hostile actions like portscanning, denial of service attacks or exploit attacks, logs them and alerts the administrator when such an attempt occurs. - Blocking With The Aggressor, you can block service usage and server access by making rulesets. Network monitoring options allow the system administrator to ban sites, services, block connections, ban keywords and more. - Network Vulnerability Scanner / Informator This module enables you to test your network against hacker attacks. With its live plugin support, you will be able to test your network against latest security vulnerabilities by downloading related plugin file from our website. We also have Plugin SDK (for Delphi and Visual C) for you to develop your own plugin files for The Aggressor. - Network Administration Tools. The Aggressor has most important internet tools which are useful for network administration such as DNS Scanner, Portscanner, Finger, Ident, Whois, Ping, Traceroute. With The Aggressor, you will not need use any internetworking tools from any other sources. Requirements : Windows NT 4.0 ( Installed Internet Explorer 4 for HTML Filter ) Ethernet Connection (or another 802.3 frame compatible device) Pentium 200 MMX (Pentium II 266 Recommended) 32 Mb Ram (Additional ram for high network traffic (64+) ) 10 Mb Disk space (Additional disk space for connection / observer logging) You can obtain detailed information about our product from http://www.aggressor.net Please note that this is a release notification email you can send email to list-request at aggressor.net with subject "UNSUBSCRIBE" to remove yourself from our notify list . Regards Korhan KAYA AGIS Corporation http://www.aggressor.net (+90)(212) 212-3427 From CarolMoore at kreative.net Mon Dec 28 18:56:15 1998 From: CarolMoore at kreative.net (Carol Moore) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:56:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Y2K War Games & Martial Law articles Message-ID: <36884349.1B902534@kreative.net> Below are two recent articles to remind libertarians,et al that the feds are already planning "war games" in June for potential problems in year 2000 as well as discussing martial law. (All planned by the same President, Attorney General, ATF/FBI, and military who gave us Waco, Iraq sanctions, and the Sudan and Iraq bombings.) Carol in D.C. http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/community-y2k.html (PS. Demand Clinton the rapist (see http://www.newsmax.com) resign. 202-456-1111 or President at whitehouse.gov) (A good source for daily mainstream press articles on Y2K is: http://www.year2000.com/articles/articles) ----------- 12-24-98 Government plans war games to battle Millennium Bug By Lisa Hoffman / Scripps Howard News Service WASHINGTON -- The federal government is gearing up for top-level war games designed to grapple with possible calamities the "millennium bug" might wreak in the United States and abroad. The "tabletop exercise," as it's being called, will mark the first time since the end of the Cold War that Cabinet secretaries have assembled to plot responses to what could be a nationwide crisis. Clinton administration officials say they expect any disruptions that might result from computer confusion when 2000 dawns will be minor. But they want to make sure the government is prepared should that forecast be wrong. Planning for the war games, tentatively scheduled for June, is in its early stages, so officials can't say which Cabinet secretaries will take part, how long the exercises will last or what mock disaster scenarios the leaders will be wrestling with. According to administration officials, those almost certain to participate are Defense Secretary William Cohen, Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala, Attorney General Janet Reno, Energy Secretary Bill Richardson, Transportation Secretary Rodney Slater and Jamie Lee Witt, the director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which is taking a lead role in preparing for any year 2000, or Y2K, glitches. Governments, from the city and county level up, are racing to make sure their tens of thousands of vital systems will not fall prey to a programming problem that might cause computers to misinterpret the turn of the century on Jan. 1, 2000, and shut down or otherwise fail. Given the proliferation of computer chips in everything from traffic signals to medical devices to air traffic control towers, significant disruptions in vital services are at least theoretically possible. The administration wants to be able to respond rapidly if those occur. One major focus of the war games is expected to be on how to coordinate a response. At least one other high-level war game is slated at the Pentagon, where the top brass along with Cohen will gather to brainstorm sometime between March and the national exercise in June, according to Pentagon officials. Their focus won't be so much on handling defense computer foul-ups -- for which a massive preparatory fix now is underway -- as on how the armed forces might be able to help communities in which they are based cope with a crisis, particularly those overseas. If, for instance, the electrical power fails in Ramstein, Germany, troops at the U.S. Air Force Base there could provide generators to help restore the power, officials said. (Lisa Hoffman covers military affairs for Scripps Howard News Service. E-mail hoffmanl(at)shns.com.) ---------------- Found at: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981221_xex_un_plans_glo.shtml MONDAY DECEMBER 211998 PANIC IN THE YEAR ZERO U.N. plans for global chaos Bennett says no plans in U.S. for martial law Editor's note: This is the second of a two-part series on the Y2K millennium bug based on an exclusive interview with Sen. Robert Bennett, R-UT, and the chairman of the Senate committee investigating the technology problem. By David M. Bresnahan � 1998, WorldNetDaily.com SALT LAKE CITY, UT -- As preparations for widespread global panic and disorder over the Y2K crisis begin at the United Nations, the U.S. senator considered the most knowledgeable about the millennium bug, assures the United States does not have plans in place for martial law. Representatives from 130 nations met in a closed-door meeting Friday to discuss the Y2K crisis and the predicted problems that will occur around the world. The use of SWAT teams and martial law are being planned, according to a source present for the meeting at the U.N. Many underdeveloped nations expressed concern because they have had no ability to prepare for the Y2K problems, and many other smaller nations are far behind where they should be, the source told WorldNetDaily. The discussions at the meeting turned to how to handle public panic and unrest that is expected to result on January 1, 2000, if the Y2K computer bug shuts down power, communications, and transportation. The meeting was only the first of many more to come. Eventually, a formal request may be made to the U.N. for coordinated military action, according to the source. Representatives in the meetings openly expressed their fears of unrest, and voiced a need for martial law, and the use of military and police SWAT teams. Meanwhile, Bennett, chairman of the Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000 Technology Problem, has been actively sounding the alarm about domestic problems that may result because of the computer glitch. But he says martial law is a minimal threat in the U.S. "I'm not one of those who think that Bill Clinton will automatically, or in some diabolical way, try to manipulate this problem (Y2K) to impose improper force on anybody," he stated. "I just don't see any indications of that. Until I see some suggestion that that really is happening I won't believe that it's under consideration." Bennett did acknowledge that Canada is formulating plans to initiate martial law because of Y2K. "The Canadian armed forces are organized very differently than American armed forces," explained Bennett. "We don't have the provision to turn out the military from the Pentagon in a presidential declaration of martial law like the Canadians do." Although Bennett has been personally speaking out about the reality of the problems that could result from the Y2K bug, he has begun to tone down his predictions. He blames some of the fear being generated about the problem on businesses selling survival and preparedness supplies. "There's no question but that some of the hysteria is being whipped up by people who have products to sell," Bennett told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview. "At the same time, there are people who have legitimate products to sell that could have an impact on the Y2K problem, who have every right to talk about the problem in their legitimate marketing efforts." "Sometimes the lines between those two get blurred, but I don't want to be party to helping sell any particular product or service. That's not the appropriate thing for a United States senator or a United States Senate committee to do." Bennett was critical of most government agencies and private businesses for not working on the problem sooner. He said the Social Security Administration is to be commended for getting an early start, but most others failed to work on the problem soon enough to solve it in time. The total cost to fix the Y2K bug is expected to exceed $600 billion, with legal expenses in excess of $1 trillion, according to Bennett. Those numbers do not include estimates of lost business revenues, and corresponding loss of tax revenues. Potential damages and repairs are also not part of the estimates. Of all government agencies, Bennett said his greatest concerns are with the Defense Department. He said the Pentagon began work on the problem too late. Bennett listed the priorities of his committee as power, telecommunications and transportation. He explained that it will do little good for businesses to fix the Y2K problem within their company if they don't have power, communications, or transportation. "If there is no electricity, it doesn't matter whether your computer is Y2K compliant or not," said Bennett. "Your laptop batteries won't last long enough to solve all your problems." When Bennett first began spreading the alarm about Y2K, he stated that there was a 40 percent chance the nation's power grid would not function because of Y2K. "Now I think that 40 percent has shrunk down to single digits -- 5 percent, 3 percent -- pick your number, it doesn't really matter, it's a relatively small chance that the power grid will fail," said Bennett confidently. "I still think we will have brownouts," he added. "I don't know how long they will last. I don't know where they will hit, and I don't know how severe they will be. The very nature of the problem indicates that we cannot get through this with complete, absolute, 100 percent assurance, although there are people in power companies that are now telling me that's what we can depend on. "My own sense of the thing says, no, there's got to be some brownouts. There will be some interruptions, but the power grid will not fail. Don't go out and dig up your backyard and bury propane tanks, or go out and buy your very own generator, because I think we will have power." "I think the telecommunications system will work," predicted Bennett. "There will be individual exchanges or switching companies, or what have you, that will have problems. We won't know until we can test the whole system end to end. But there are enough heartening indications that things are going to be alright that leads me to believe that the telecommunications system will work." The nation's power grid is also dependent on a telecommunications system which enables all the various computers to communicate and keep the grid functioning. The telecommunications systems depend on the power grid to provide the necessary electricity. "If we have a breakdown in the transportation system, it could eventually shut down the economy by itself," said Bennett. "For example, if the trains don't work because the switching systems don't work, you can't get coal from coal mines on the trains to the power-generating plants, which means eventually you don't get any power and the power grid goes down and then the dominoes can fall in various directions." The most vulnerable transportation system which may be interrupted is maritime shipping, according to Bennett. "Getting oil out of foreign countries onto ships through customs with all the paper work that is involved with all large transoceanic shipments. And, of course, all of the paper work is controlled by computers," explained Bennett. Ships are computer-operated and must dock in ports that are also computer mechanized. Customs procedures are also dependent on computers to deal with the enormous amount of cargo coming into the country every day. "A breakdown (could occur) in that kind of transportation chain which depends not only on Y2K compliance in this country, but in many countries including the countries that license the ships, and the countries where the oil is produced," Bennett said. "I think the chances of a breakdown somewhere in that chain are probably higher than the single digits, and that could create some interesting and challenging economic difficulties." Bennett also took time to give advice to those who wish to determine how they may be impacted personally by the Y2K problem. Many people are planning to take their money out of banks prior to the start of the year 2000. Bennett is not personally concerned about access to his bank account. "You have every right to contact your institution, whether it's a bank or a credit union, and ask, 'Are you going to be Y2K compliant?' If you don't have the answer that you deserve, then take your money out," said Bennett. He said there will be individual banking institutions where checks will not clear and ATMs will fail. Some banks and ATMs will work, and others may not. "You have the responsibility to take care of your Year 2000 problem, just as your bank has the responsibility to take care of theirs, or just as Bill Clinton has the responsibility to take care of America's," he explained. Despite his own sometimes-dire warnings, Bennett says no one should have fear. "I think fear is too strong a word, but I think all of us should have some concern," he explained. "Concern enough to inform ourselves. You need to find out as much as you possibly can about what's really going to happen to you, and then make intelligent contingency plans." He advises talking to city, county, and state officials to determine if local government is prepared to continue to provide services in the year 2000. Bennett also advises that everyone should contact businesses they depend on for goods and services, and evaluate to what extent they will be impacted by Y2K. The task is complicated by the need to evaluate the entire chain of supplies. It is not enough ask your local grocery store if it is Y2K compliant. It must also be determined if the chain of supplies to the grocery store will be able to continue to deliver goods. "The contingency plan may be very minor, it may be non-existent," said Bennett. "You may say, 'In my job, with my employer, in my city, everything is going to be fine, I don't need to worry about anything.' "Or you may say, 'Where I live there is a 20 percent, 30 percent chance that the trucks might not be able to get to the supermarket where I buy food. I probably ought to have a little extra food. In my city the water purification plant is proving to be far more troublesome than it would be someplace else, and in my city I better have a supply of fresh water that can take me through while they're trying to get this taken care of.' "That's not fear," explained Bennett, "that's intelligent planning based on sound information. Everyone of us has to take the responsibility for gathering his or her own information and then making personal decisions. From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 28 08:48:53 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:48:53 +0800 Subject: Mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu Not Propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet Message-ID: <199812281554.QAA18888@replay.com> On 28 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: >Has anyone else experienced posts sent via the anon.lcs.mit.edu >mail2news gateway not propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet's news >servers? I've made a couple of posts, both anonymously and >non-anonymously via that gateway, and they haven't been showing up >at CIS/Sprynet. Yet they've been archived on Dejanews and replies >to them from users on other servers have shown up. > >Is this a propagation problem, or are Compuserve and Sprynet >blocking posts from that gateway? Hey! Stop abusing the anonymous remailers! Your identity isn't findable! It defeats the whole purpose of Anon! Fleaza! From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 28 11:03:22 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:03:22 +0800 Subject: Friedman sings, part II. Message-ID: http://www.booknotes.org/transcripts/10086.htm This time it's for Brian Lamb's "Booknotes" show on CSPAN. The above is a transcript, about 60k. Cheers, RAH ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From emc at wire.insync.net Mon Dec 28 11:12:53 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:12:53 +0800 Subject: Anthrax Theatre II Message-ID: <199812281843.MAA27470@wire.insync.net> Performances of the award-winning "Anthrax Theatre" continue across the nation. Innovative variations on the original script are being demonstrated to test audiences, including stripping 200 Mervyn's shoppers naked, and forcing them to rinse themselves with laundry bleach. ----- POMONA, Calif. (AP) -- Hundreds of people were quarantined for hours inside a nightclub after a phony anthrax threat, at least the seventh such hoax in Southern California this month. No trace of the potentially deadly bacterium was found in preliminary tests, authorities said Sunday. A Los Angeles County hazardous materials team and the FBI's Domestic Terrorism Task Force were called to the Glass House club at 11:50 p.m. Saturday after a man called the Police Department and said ``a significant quantity'' of anthrax would be released into the air, police Lt. Gary Graham said. If inhaled and then left untreated, anthrax spores can cause respiratory failure and death within a week. About 800 people were kept inside the club for about four hours while the air-conditioning system was checked and samples taken for further study, Graham said. Clubgoers then were taken outside and given information on anthrax symptoms. They were then allowed to return to the club if they wished. Authorities had not immediately determined whether the threat was related to six others since the middle of the month. In each case, no evidence of anthrax was found: --On Dec. 14, a secretary at the Perris School District in Riverside County opened a letter that said, ``you've been exposed to anthrax.'' About 20 people were isolated and decontaminated. --On Dec. 17, an office building in the Westwood area of Los Angeles received a letter threatening exposure to anthrax. Nearly two dozen workers had to strip and go through a decontamination process. --On Dec. 18, a U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Woodland Hills area was targeted and about 90 people underwent antibiotic treatment. --On Dec. 21, a telephoned threat emptied two Van Nuys courthouses and forced about 1,500 people into quarantine for several hours. --On Wednesday, the Chatsworth office of Time Warner Cable was evacuated after a threat. About 200 people had to leave their work stations. --On Thursday, Christmas Eve, a Mervyn's store in Palm Desert was the target of a hoax, and 200 people had to disrobe and were rinsed with a bleach solution. Anthrax hoaxes also have happened in Colorado, Kentucky, and Tennessee. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From billp at nmol.com Mon Dec 28 11:13:47 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:13:47 +0800 Subject: Hacking for Girlies and FBI news Message-ID: <3687C285.172C@nmol.com> Monday 12/28/98 9:27 AM John Young BUSINESS OUTLOOK, Albuquerque Journal Monday December 28, 1998 http://www.abqjournal.com/ Consultant feels heat from FBI By Aaron Baca Carolyn Meinel says she just can't win. Three months ago - and many times before and since - the East Mountain author and computer-security consultant was the target of a diatribe left by computer hackers who broke into and vandalized the New York Times' Web page, she says. Now, Meinel says she is suspected by the IBI as being one of the culprits in the New York Times computer hack. She says the FBI told her that she's not a suspect, but asked her to take a lie-detector test, which suggests she is "The last contact I had with them (the FBI) was about a month ago," Meinel said in a telephone interview with the Journal. "I don't think they would want me to take a test if they weren't trying to trip me tip up somehow so they could come back at me later." Meinel says she offered to assist the FBI man investigation of the incident because of her experience with hackers and her experience with those who took credit for that. back - HFG, or Hacking for Girlies. So far the FBI will not say if it suspects Meinel. Doug Beldon, a spokesman for the Albuquerque FBI office, said the FBI is investigating the incident But he said he couldn't comment about the investigation. The New York Times web page was attacked by a group claiming to be HFG in September. The group peppered the site with profanity and pornographic images. They also left hidden messages on the page directed at Meinel and others.. Meinel is known in the hacker community as the Happy Hacker She has written two editions of a book by the same title and helped found an online community about hacking. She has also written numerous articles on computer security, including a recent article for Scientific American. In all of her articles, Meinel is critical of some hackers for the damage they can cause. She says she promotes friendly hacking, which she compares to the tinkering or exploring shade-tree mechanics often engage in on their automobiles. The same group, HAG, is believed to have broken into the computers of Albuquerque Internet service provider Rt66 in August. In that attack, more than 1,400 credit card numbers belonging to subscribers were compromised. Meinel says she has been advised by her own lawyer to stay out of the case now. "There's a lot I Think I could have offered the FBI, Meinel says. �but I think it�s wise not to say anthing now. I could get myself in trouble if I helped with this investigation now.� --- I am reading about html, reading our son�s web site code - which he got from another Moto employee - and experimenting by modifying it. I just downloaded your stats and table code. I studied you index.htm and cryptome pages a bit yesterday. Morales and I talked this morning. As soon as we get something working, then we will try to get others to help. Like Ashok Kaushal aka AK. We plan to give the Great Satan some MORE deservedly [http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html] REALLY BAD international press. Until, of course, we get the Great Satan to shape-up and get some of his messes SETTLED. ABQ FBI agents Kohl and Schum attempted to intimidate me once. US Marshals too. http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm On the second occasion ABQ FBI agents Kohl and Moore delivered US assistant attorney Gorrence�s letter to me. http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm Moore apologized when Kohl handed me the letter. Nonetheless, this earned the instigators criminal complaint affidavits. http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm Kohl had on a black fanny pack. FBI/Engineering Research Facility Special Supervisory Agents [SSA] I worked with carry their guns in fanny packs. Holsters were too obvious the FBI told me. FBI SSAs also carry cell phones. They need to phone in to find out what to do next. Morales and I need picture of the Great Satan. But, of course, being law-abiding citizens, we don�t want to infringe anyone�s registered trademark. Campbell soup did not sue Andy Warhol. Therefore we will give Underwood full credit if we decide to use it registered trademark to depict the Great Satan. Back to .vxd writing. I think I have to get win98 working today so I can run the 98ddk. The vmm.inc macro which provides access to Microsoft�s Windows Virtual Machine Manager does not work the Hazzah or Thielen and Woodruff device driver code. While I modified vmm.inc to expand without error, link 32 is giving an error on some of the segments declarations in the module definition file. Until I get a working example of Device Descriptor Block accessed in the protected mode, I am in a bit of trouble with my current conversion project. Sure wish we could get these UNFORTUNATE matters settled so that Morales and I could spend time on other constructive projects. Later bill Thursday 12/10/98 5:08 PM J Kevin O'Brien, Chief Freedom of Information-Privacy Act Section Office of Public Affairs U.S. Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation Washington D. C. 20535 O'Brien I received your form letter dated DEC 02 1998. YES, I want the information! I return your completed form. Sandia assigned me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF. SSA Mike Uttaro was my direct contact. His boss was SSA Mike McDevitt. The FBI is breaking the law under the veil of classification abuse. I may write another article --- False Security William H. Payne Abstract Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are the easiest to counterfeit. Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com http/www.securitysolutions.com ran a full page ad. "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world . The most secure of all access card technologies. HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to alter them destroys them! ... Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed, making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of vandals. ... The secrets to the security of an HID Wiegand card are those little enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted, they won't work." Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand http://www.securitysolutions.com/ and give you insight into Real Security. Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at Sandia National Laboratories. http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm False Security William H. Payne Abstract Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are the easiest to counterfeit. Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com http/www.securitysolutions.com ran a full page ad. "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world . The most secure of all access card technologies. HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to alter them destroys them! ... Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed, making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of vandals. ... The secrets to the security of an HID Wiegand card are those little enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted, they won't work." Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand http://www.securitysolutions.com/ and give you insight into Real Security. Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at Sandia National Laboratories. http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm --- Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials Bill Payne October 16,1996 Abstract Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and inexpensive to counterfeit. Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October 1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article, Wiegand technology stands the test of time by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12 Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced wee-gand) output. However, only three companies in the world make Wiegand readers. Sensor Engineering of Hamden Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim, Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ... A Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand reader, and it is important to understand the differences. In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to translate card information around the patented Wiegand effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific magnetic field. If the pulse is generated when the wire is near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit. Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold would generate a series of pulses. Lining up two rows of wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits" - and passing them by two different coils would generate two series of pulses, or data bits. These data bits can then be interpreted as binary data and used to control other devices. If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry, you have a Wiegand reader. Carefully laminate the special wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card. IN THE BEGINNING Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control market in the late 1970s. It was immediately successful because it filled the need for durable, secure card and reader technology. Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or duplicated. ... Bodell's Last statement is incorrect. Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are 1 Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s. 2 Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card. Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can be visualized zero row | | | one row | | binary 0 1 0 0 1 representation Solutions to Task 1 A X-ray the card B MAGNI VIEW FILM, Mylar film reads magnetic fields ... Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page 205, C33,447 $11.75 is placed over the top of the Wiegand card. COW MAGNET, Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the stomachs of their cows. Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75 is placed under the card. Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film. Mark the position of the wires with a pen. Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s paper-match-sized strips. Don't worry about cutting a wire or two. Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top. A 1 has the pen mark at the bottom. Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to counterfeit the card number desired. Don't worry about spacing. Wiegand output is self-clocking! Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card. Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced! History Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA. The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION. Details of the consequences of this work are covered in Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993 State-sanctioned paranoia, EE Times, January 22, 1996 One man's battle, EE Times, March 22, 1994 Damn the torpedoes, EE Times, June 6, 1994 Protecting properly classified info, EE Times, April 11, 1994 DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases, Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995 DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection, Albuquerque Tribune, March 27, 1996 DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199 --- Here is one of my previous articles. http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1 We should get this settled before IT GETS WORSE. Black and white is an example of WORSE. bill payne -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jpg00001.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 18645 bytes Desc: "" URL: From rah at shipwright.com Mon Dec 28 11:28:00 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:28:00 +0800 Subject: People With Honor Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:55:59 GMT To: "DaveNet World" From: dave at scripting.com (DaveNet email) Subject: People With Honor Sender: ------------------------------------- >From Scripting News... It's DaveNet! Released on 12/28/98; 9:55:55 AM PST ------------------------------------- Seasons Greetings DaveNet readers! I've been keeping up on the issues of impeachment, reading newspapers and websites, and considering ideas that have not been showing up in these places. I've also been talking with people and listening, and I think people in the US are overlooking something that we may not be able to ignore much longer. First, there is definitely a serious split in this country. Some people blame the Republicans for what happened, I've even heard people say they're so angry with the Republicans that they'll never vote Republican again. To them, I want to say, save some of your rage for Clinton. Understand that there are two sides here. Clinton screwed up, the Republicans responded, and Clinton did more, and on and on. How far has it gone? That's what I want to think about now, logically, precisely, and not emotionally or expressively. And I want to consider other points of view, especially those from outside the US. If we're ever going to work together again, there will have to be give on both sides, sooner or later. We'll have to see ourselves as one country, responsible for what we do, no matter what party you belong to or support. ***A tough question I was going to bag this piece, it's not worth the trouble, I said to myself, until I saw CBS's 60 Minutes last night, and listened to Andy Rooney talk about how far it's gone. He asked the same question I'm going to ask here. ***What happened in Iraq? The question: Was the US bombing of Iraq an attempt by Clinton to stay in power? This question has to be asked, although I do it with trepidation, imagining that some of my fellow Americans will accuse me of treason, or not pulling behind our leader in a time of crisis. But as I sort thru this, I want to know, where is the crisis? Does Iraq threaten us? If so, how? Oil prices are now lower than they have ever been, as if oil prices were an honorable reason to bomb another country. How would we feel if Iraq had bombed US cities? How would we feel if Iraq found a way to retaliate now that we have bombed their cities? Could we blame them if they did? Did Israel ask us to bomb Iraq? Clearly if Iraq attacks Israel, that's a problem for Israel, and we're an ally and protector of Israel. Did Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan or Egypt ask us? How come they're staying silent on this? Or are they not silent and we're not hearing about it? If timing was a big issue, as Clinton says it was, why choose to bomb Iraq just as the House was convening to decide impeachment? Are we to believe that the decision was made without considering impeachment? At some point in the deliberation, someone must have said "But Mr. President, couldn't this backfire on us? Couldn't it look as if we're doing this to bolster your Presidency?" It's the first question that pops into a thinking mind. The question has barely been raised on TV or in the newspapers or on the web. Why? This is supposed to be an open country. I can't believe that anyone who's really thinking about this hasn't asked themselves this question. It's on my mind, I can tell you that for sure. ***Carole King? These are very strange times. This came home in a new way when I saw a TV clip of Carole King entertaining the troops on a US warship. What was she doing there? Did I miss something? Is this the Bizarro World? Next is it going to be Bob Dylan, Jesse Jackson, Tom Hanks, Robin Williams and Whoopi Goldberg? What am I missing? What are we supporting? If you had a debate with a thoughtful person from outside the US, what would you say about how our military is being used? Justly, fairly, wisely, respectfully, honorably? And is it really still just about sex? Can Clinton blame the Republicans for this? Where will the buck stop this time? The appearance of dishonorable militarism is enough to cause some people to draw their own conclusions. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. ***Did you know? I'm reminded of those who said they knew that Clinton was lying when he said he never had sexual relations with that woman. I wonder if they're listening carefully to his words now. Are they really this gullible? How will you feel if it escalates, and you or your children are asked to fight a war in Iraq? What will you be fighting for? This is very bad for the US. We are being irresponsible. We let a dishonored president bomb foreign countries and we look the other way. I keep watching the Op-Ed pages for a clue to this, but they are silent. I wonder why? ***A failure to communicate Over the weekend I watched a great movie, Cool Hand Luke, starring Paul Newman. He's a tragic Christ-like figure, making it an appropriate movie to watch during the big Christian holiday. He says and does things the other inmates wish they had the courage to say and do. The warden breaks his spirit, but it returns before the movie ends. Cornered, resigned to dying, he repeats, with a twinkle in his eye, what the warden said in an earlier scene. "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Then the jailkeeper shoots him. As they carry away his dying body I wonder whether it was worth it. In the end the prisoners are still in prison, but they have the memory of his courage to warm them. Luke is gone, the truth is gone, but at least they had a glimpse of what it's like to be alive. ***People with honor Compared with perjury and obstruction of justice, it matters more to me that the President looked into the camera, with induced outrage, and denied doing something that he later admitted doing. It was his outrage that did it for me. He's an emotional manipulator on a mass scale. Looking at the film of the Cabinet officers saying they believed him, I wondered "How could they?" If this country ever had courage, now is the time for it to surface. Don't wait for a hero, no one person can do it. We all have to decide if honor counts. Or at least a good portion of the electorate has to get there. The Democrats point to Clinton's historic 70 percent approval rating, and they're right to do so. We preach the value of democracy, but are we hypocrites, do we get any benefit from democracy in our own country? The man lies. Even his supporters acknowledge that. We accept that, but what's the limit? How far will we go? Consider that seriously, as you try to understand the news, as you try to understand the country you live in and how it relates to other countries. If Clinton stays, do we have a system based on lies? None of us know how deep it goes. We may be fighting a war as a by-product of this, a real war, with battleships and bombs. Don't blame anyone but yourself. You could have stopped it and you still can, it's not too late, yet. Dave Winer ------------------------------------------- Scripting News: --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From sunder at brainlink.com Mon Dec 28 11:28:08 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:28:08 +0800 Subject: Utne: Y2K Citizen's Action Guide Message-ID: <3687D6BE.3D07B6BE@brainlink.com> http://www.utne.com/y2k/ This month's Utne Reader came with an attached 4.25"x8.5" booklet. An e-copy of the said booklet is available from their site. Its contents, much like the magazine, contains articles snipped and or adapted from elsewhere. Unfortunately the thread throughout the whole thing is "those who go in the woods with automatic rifles are the bad selfish guys." IMHO, helping your family and 'hood is a great thing. Being labeled a kook if you are selfish and have no instinct other than self preservation isn't such a great thing. This sort of thought will only lead to a further erosion of freedom and a fall towards communism as more and more people will feel pressured into "sharing" their property and resources with the commune rather than hoarding. By all means, make everyone aware of the problems and help them cope if that's what you want to do, just don't force others to do the same at gunpoint. :) It does have some redeeming qualities though if you ignore the political sharing slant. The articles they've included (save for the "Public Citizen" section) are good planning guides. -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ------------------- + ^ + Sunder "The real aim of current policy is to /|\ \|/ sunder at sunder.net ensure the continued effectiveness of /\|/\ <--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF US information warfare assets against \/|\/ /|\ STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY! individuals,businesses and governments \|/ + v + PROTEST WASSENAAR!!! in Europe and elsewhere" -- Ross Anderson ------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ---------------------- RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI From paul at c2.net Mon Dec 28 12:45:52 1998 From: paul at c2.net (Paul Sutton) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:45:52 +0800 Subject: [ssl-users] Re: Sammers eers Theft of Ben lauriesIntellectual In-Reply-To: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: A highly amusing ranting. I'm glad the poster chose to remain anonymous: they would surely be ashamed to attach their name to such a poorly written and grossly inaccurate message. Anonymous writes: >C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation >Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then I think one of the greatest acheivements of open source projects in the last few years has been the acceptance of licensed in the BSD style. These allow for commercial use of the open source projects with minimal advertising clauses. This has lead to the acceptance of open source software as a valid model to create software that both benefits the community through free availability _and_ generals commercial spinoffs which themselves lead to a greater acceptance of the underlying free code. If a particular contributor to a BSD style project has a problem with this then they are free (in all senses) to start a project using a more restrictive license, such as the GPL. >From this comment (and others) it looks like the poster has a philosophical objection to commercial software. That is fine, and I'm sure that the poster will have a lot of fun attacking other software vendors. >had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl At the time, Verisign would not issue certificates for code available in source form (this is also why certificates from Verisign were not available for Apache-SSL). They now issue certificates for programs which are available in source form (subject to some restrictions, of course). >for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases >a mod_ssl.c of his design... result?? >C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc) I'm not sure that you understand the relationship between the development of Stronghold, the availablility of mod_ssl, and the employee losses in the Oakland (US) office. You should also remember that Stronghold is developed entirely outside the US in the UK office which has been consistently increasing it size over the same period: it is quite appropriate for an international cryptography company to arrange its staffing such that it is not affected by the US export restrictions. mod_ssl really hasn't been around long enough to have a serious affect on Stronghold sales. It is also very simplistic to assume that the availability of the free Apache SSL implementation would cause the majority of Stronghold customers to switch over: if that were the case, surely they would now be using Apache-SSL and would not have waited until mod_ssl was available? There is plenty of room for both free and commercial SSL servers. >so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project >(mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future >verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...) This does not make sense. mod_ssl is an independent project: whether or not Stronghold includes mod_ssl as source or binary would have no effect on the continuation of the mod_ssl project (in the same way that it makes no difference to Apache if Stronghold comes with Apache source, or to php if it comes with PHP source). things, so it >I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it >again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly) If you had any validity I don't think you would post anonymously, and you would explain why your arguments should make sense, since to me they are highly simplistic and rather lacking in truth. Paul -- Paul Sutton, C2Net Europe http://www.eu.c2.net/~paul/ Editor, Apache Week .. the latest Apache news http://www.apacheweek.com/ From VR6R at aol.com Mon Dec 28 14:32:35 1998 From: VR6R at aol.com (VR6R at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 06:32:35 +0800 Subject: Click-N-Go! USA WHOLESALE DIRECTORY DISK Message-ID: <63f54761.3687d3d2@aol.com> Looking to market a product on the net? Tired of working for others and dealing with huge amounts of paper work? Click-N-Go! USA WHOLESALE DIRECTORY DISK You already know people are making small fortunes selling products online. They buy low and sell for 3 to 4 times what they paid for the products! What are you waiting for? We show you how to sell your products! We show you where to get the hottest deals on wholesale products! Get More Information on how to become part of the winning edge of marketing your own products online. No signup fee's because its YOUR business. Little to no inventory investment or advertising investment, be your own boss with no crap. Click here for more information I'm making money and you can too! We can do it together! From howree at cable.navy.mil Mon Dec 28 16:22:00 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:22:00 +0800 Subject: Mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu Not Propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet In-Reply-To: <199812281554.QAA18888@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981229094117.00981d30@205.83.192.13> At 04:54 PM 12/28/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >On 28 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote: > >>Has anyone else experienced posts sent via the anon.lcs.mit.edu >>mail2news gateway not propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet's news >>servers? I've made a couple of posts, both anonymously and >>non-anonymously via that gateway, and they haven't been showing up >>at CIS/Sprynet. Yet they've been archived on Dejanews and replies >>to them from users on other servers have shown up. >> >>Is this a propagation problem, or are Compuserve and Sprynet >>blocking posts from that gateway? > >Hey! Stop abusing the anonymous remailers! Your identity isn't findable! It >defeats the whole purpose of Anon! > >Fleaza! Eh? This wasn't me. Fuck off. Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 28 18:01:44 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:01:44 +0800 Subject: kha0S Linux Message-ID: <199812290136.CAA06352@replay.com> kha0S Linux is a new distribution currently in development. The primary goal of this project is to integrate and embed strong cryptography within a robust Linux distribution. kha0S is currently seeking the assistance of developers with strong backgrounds in cryptography and source code security auditing. Please visit the homepage for additional information. http://kha0s.org From questions at daikihaku.dk Mon Dec 28 18:01:53 1998 From: questions at daikihaku.dk (questions at daikihaku.dk) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:01:53 +0800 Subject: New Martial Arts Organisation Message-ID: <199812290124.CAA08748@saturn.infoserv.dk> This e-mail is to inform you, that we have started a non-profit friendship association called Friends of the Fighting Spirit. Through the years, we have established many contacts in different countries. Now, together with all other interested people worldwide, it 's possible through Dai Ki Haku to become member of the non-profit friendship association Friends of the Fighting Spirit Our intention is to provide all forms of martial arts and combatants with the opportunity of to derive knowledge from each other in various ways, respective of different individual levels, religions and culture. If you are accepted as a member, you will never have to pay anything for you membership. Both individuals and clubs can become members. By visiting the below web-site, you will be able to read some material about Friends of the Fighting spirit. http://ffs.daikihaku.dk/ The material includes information and replies to questions about why Friends of the Fighting Spirit is quite special within Martial Art. Please take the time to read the entire material so that we may have some well-considered applications for membership. On behalf of Shihan Oerum --- (Please note that this is not a commercial e-mail, this is a non-profit organisation. Your have received this e-mail because of your interest in Martial Art, and you will not receive any more e-mail's if you decide not to join the organisation.) --- From emc at wire.insync.net Mon Dec 28 18:53:55 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:53:55 +0800 Subject: Kha0s Linux Distribution Message-ID: <199812290233.UAA28178@wire.insync.net> >From the webpage at Kha0s.org: > Expect the first beta release of kha0S to include Matt > Blaze's CFS. It has been around for a while and has had > the benefit of review by the cryptographic community. A good start, I guess. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From jya at pipeline.com Mon Dec 28 19:08:46 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:08:46 +0800 Subject: G8 MIB Message-ID: <199812290247.VAA07707@smtp0.mindspring.com> >From a DoJ press release 15 December 1998: High-tech crime The G8 countries have established a 24 hour network of law enforcement experts capable of responding swiftly to requests for help with investigations that cross international borders, including hacking cases. The network, which is now in use, is open to wider membership and a number of non G8 countries have already joined. The Lyon Group is pursuing consultations with industry, including internet service providers, on preventing criminal use of networks and ensuring traceability of their communications. It is also developing proposals for a legal framework for retrieving electronic evidence swiftly in cases that cut across international borders. More: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1998/December/588ag.htm From otfipl at udme.eoqni.nirl.com Tue Dec 29 11:09:14 1998 From: otfipl at udme.eoqni.nirl.com (otfipl at udme.eoqni.nirl.com) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:09:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Is what you are looking for ? Message-ID: <199812300314.GNM5249@kmop.pgkgy.gywe.com> Please note that this is a one time mailing and you will not receive any further invitations to us. If you are over the age of 18 and are looking for the hottest adult entertainment on the Internet Today, Click here to see something that you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE! http://members.xoom.com/MK44DHTA/default.html From nobody at replay.com Mon Dec 28 19:12:40 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:12:40 +0800 Subject: Anna Holmes, MarBLes, and the Married Lesbian Underground Message-ID: <199812290246.DAA10919@replay.com> In article <368690ea.96913979 at news.mindspring.com>, equinox44 at mindspring.com wrote: > >The idea of using men as "a sperm bank with a checkbook" is really > >insidious, but by the time many of the victims of this deception > >find out they've been deceived and used, it's too late. The above > >URL, BTW, says that the list has a panel of six formerly married > >lesbians for "support", which seems to be a euphemism for coaching. > >Since marriage is a civil contract I wonder if such willful > >"interference with the performance of a contract" has ever been > >redressed in court. > > One may not be able to go after the 'support group', but there is > legal precedence in the US allowing a person to bring action against a > spouse who marries them with fraudulent intent. Even if that fraud > is marrying someone they don't love after professing love. > > OTOH, I imagine that one could include the 'support group' in any > civil or legal action as co-conspirators. I visited Anna Holmes' (the moderator of the Married but Lesbian [MarBLes] mailing list) website at http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/fogbow/ and discovered that she's a licensed shrink who lives in Birmingham, AL. Thus, there may be some "deep pockets" in the form of her malpractice insurance, as well as the hosts of the mailing list itself, queernet.org. I'm not sure what sort of other action is possible, but I'm sure if Holmes were "supporting" the defrauding of African Americans rather than married men, Jesse Jackson would figure out a way to bring some pressure to bear against her and those aiding and abetting her clandestine activities. From whgiii at openpgp.net Mon Dec 28 19:17:10 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:17:10 +0800 Subject: G8 MIB Message-ID: <199812290207.VAA002.99@whgiii> In <199812290247.VAA07707 at smtp0.mindspring.com>, on 12/28/98 at 09:48 PM, John Young said: >High-tech crime > The G8 countries have established a 24 hour network of >law enforcement experts capable of responding swiftly to >requests for help with investigations that cross international borders, >including hacking cases. The network, which is >now in use, is open to wider membership and a number of >non G8 countries have already joined. The Lyon Group is >pursuing consultations with industry, including internet >service providers, on preventing criminal use of networks >and ensuring traceability of their communications. It is also developing >proposals for a legal framework for retrieving >electronic evidence swiftly in cases that cut across >international borders. >More: >http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1998/December/588ag.htm Encrypt everything, trust no one. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From billstewart at att.com Mon Dec 28 19:50:58 1998 From: billstewart at att.com (Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:50:58 +0800 Subject: Anti-Crypto CongressCritters - FWD: And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . . Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD59009DCAAE@mo3980po13.ems.att.com> Sigh. Plus ca change -----Original Message----- From: Dave Farber [mailto:farber at cis.upenn.edu] Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 1:20 PM To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . . From: sbaker at steptoe.com Dave, I am sending you part of a note we sent to our clients a week or two ago. I haven't seen it in the press yet, but after it shows up in IP, the NY Times will be more or less irrelevant. Stewart From: Stewart Baker (sbaker at steptoe.com) Elizabeth Banker (ebanker at steptoe.com) The press would have you believe that it was Larry Flynt and his million-dollar tales of infidelity that caused the unexpected change in House leadership this month, but encryption policy buffs -- paranoid by nature and proud of it -- are beginning to focus on another suspect, one with more to gain. That's because it is the Federal Bureau of Investigation that looks like the biggest winner now that Robert Livingston has been replaced by Dennis Hastert as odds-on favorite to be Speaker of the House of Representatives. Livingston supported the industry's version of SAFE, the crypto decontrol bill that died in Congress last session. In contrast, J. Dennis Hastert (R-IL) has shown strong solidarity with the FBI on encryption issues as a member of the House Commerce Committee. Indeed, Hastert supported the Oxley-Manton Amendment that would have turned the SAFE Act of 1997 (H. R. 695) into a mandate for domestic regulation of encryption. And when Oxley-Manton was rejected by the Committee in favor of the Markey-White Amendment, Hastert voted against the SAFE Act. .. From noy99 at earthlink.net Tue Dec 29 11:52:03 1998 From: noy99 at earthlink.net (noy99 at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:52:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Our answer to your request Message-ID: <1998122995ZAA48295@earthlink.net.regismckenna.com> Thank you for your interest in our training Course. Success Courses offers an extensive Video Tape training course in "How to Collect Judicial Judgments". If you are like many people, you are not even sure what a Judicial Judgment is and why processing Judicial Judgments can earn you very substantial income. If you ever sue a company or a person and you win then you will have a Judicial Judgment against them. You are happy you won but you will soon find out the shocking fact: "Its now up to you to collect on the Judgment". 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With our first hand experience we have built a course which teaches you how to start your business in this new unknown and exciting field of processing Judicial Judgments. By following the steps laid out in our course and with reasonable effort you can become very successful in the processing of Judicial Judgments. The income potential is substantial in this profession. We have associates who have taken our course and are now working full time making $96,000.00 to over $200,000.00 per year. Part time associates are earning between $24,000.00 and $100,000.00 per year. Some choose to operate out of their home and work by themselves. Others build a sizable organization of 15 to 25 people in attractive business offices. Today Success Courses and our associates have over 632 million dollars in Judicial Judgments that we are currently processing. Of this 632 million, 36 million is in the form of joint ventures between our firm and our associates. Joint ventures are where we make our money. We only break even when our course is purchased. We make a 12% margin on the reports we supply to our associates. Our reporting capability is so extensive that government agencies, police officers, attorneys, credit agencies etc. all come to us for reports. Many of our associates already have real estate liens in force of between 5 million to over 15 million dollars. Legally this means that when the properties are sold or refinanced our associate must be paid off. The norm is 10% interest compounded annually on unpaid Judicial Judgments. Annual interest on 5 million at 10% translates to $500,000.00 annually in interest income, not counting the payment of the principle. Our associates earn half of this amount or $250,000.00 per year. This is just for interest, not counting principle and not counting the compounding of the interest which can add substantial additional income. Typically companies are sold for 10 times earnings. Just based on simple interest an associate with 5 million in real estate liens could sell their business for approximately 2.5 million dollars. 92% of all of our associates work out of their home; 43% are women and 36% are part time. One of the benefits of working in this field is that you are not under any kind of time frame. If you decide to take off for a month on vacation then go. The Judgments you are working on will be there when you return. The Judgments are still in force, they do not disappear. The way we train you is non-confrontational. You use your computer and telephone to do most of the processing. You never confront the debtor. The debtor doesn't know who you are. You are not a collection agency. Simply stated the steps to successful Judicial Processing are as follows: � Mail our recommended letter to companies and individuals with Judicial Judgments. (We train you how to find out who to write to) � 8% to 11% of the firms and people you write will call you and ask for your help. They call you, you don't call them unless you want to. � You send them an agreement (supplied in the course) to sign which splits every dollar you collect 50% to you and 50% to them. This applies no matter if the judgment is for $2,000.00 or $2,000,000.00. � You then go on-line to our computers to find the debtor and their assets. We offer over 120 powerful reports to assist you. They range from credit reports from all three credit bureaus, to bank account locates, employment locates, skip traces and locating stocks and bonds, etc. The prices of our reports are very low. Typically 1/2 to 1/3 of what other firms charge. For example we charge $6.00 for an individuals credit report when some other companies charge $25.00. � Once you find the debtor and their assets you file garnishments and liens on the assets you have located. (Standard fill in the blanks forms are included in the course) � When you receive the assets you keep 50% and send 50% to the original Judgment holder. � Once the Judgment is fully paid you mail a Satisfaction of Judgment to the court. (Included in the course) Quote's from several of our students: Thomas in area code 516 writes us: "I just wanted to drop you a short note thanking you for your excellent course. My first week, part time, will net me 3,700.00 dollars. Your professionalism in both the manual and the video opened doors for me in the future. There's no stopping me now. As of February 3rd, 1995, Thomas states he has over $8,500,000 worth of judgments he is working on. After only having this course for four months, Larry S. in area code 314 stated to us: "I am now making $2,000.00 per week and expect this to grow to twice this amount within the next year. I am having a ball. I have over $250,000 in judgments I am collecting on now." After having our course for 7 months Larry S. in 314 stated "I am now making $12,000.00 per month and have approximately $500,000.00 in judgments I am collecting on. Looks like I will have to hire someone to help out" Marshal in area code 407 states to us "I feel bad, you only charged me $189.00 for this course and it is a gold mine. I have added 3 full time people to help me after only having your course for 5 months" >From the above information and actual results you can see why we can state the following: With our course you can own your own successful business. A business which earns you substantial income now and one which could be sold in 3-5 years, paying you enough to retire on and travel the world. A business which is extremely interesting to be in. A Business in which every day is new and exciting. None of your days will be hum drum. Your brain is challenged. A business which protects you from Corporate downsizing. A business which you can start part time from your home and later, if you so desire, you can work in full time. A business which is your ticket to freedom from others telling you what to do. A business which lets you control your own destiny. Our training has made this happen for many others already. Make it happen for you! If the above sounds interesting to you then its time for you to talk to a real live human being, no cost or obligation on your part. Please call us at 1-500-488-2035. We have Customer Support staff available to you from 7:00AM to 7:00PM (Pacific Time) Monday through Saturday. Closed Sunday. If you call this number you can talk to one of our experienced Customer Support personnel. They can answer any questions you may have - with no obligation. Sometimes we run special pricing on our courses and combinations of courses. When you call our Customer Support line they can let you know of any specials we may be running. If you like what you read and hear about our courses, then the Customer Support person can work with you to place your order. We are very low key. We merely give you the facts and you can then decide if you want to work with us or not. Thank you for your time and interest. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Another Internet Ad campaign produced and distributed by: Cyber Advertising Systems, NY, NY 10011. Please call Cyber Advertising Systems at 1-800-409-8302 Extension 1284 if you would like us to design and distribute powerful advertising for your company. Success Courses is pleased with the advertising we have developed for them. If you have a solid well proven product or service then we would be proud to help your company also. If you would like to be removed from Cyber Advertising Systems mailing list then please send an email to: hopkinsdf556 at yahoo.com and type remove in the subject line. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ e;i From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Dec 28 19:53:58 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:53:58 +0800 Subject: distribution scheme In-Reply-To: <199812220853.JAA16038@jengate.thur.de> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981228010513.008cc410@idiom.com> At 09:53 AM 12/22/98 +0100, Falcon, aka FitugMix , wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or other contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each byte in stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's not really encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be hard to read. That's of course a distinct question from "will this make the information hard enough to notice that I won't get caught?"; the answer to that question depends on many factors besides the direct details themselves, like who you use this to send things to, and how you advertise the things you make available to send, etc. > I'd like legal advice on this - is the idea correct? I'm not only not a US lawyer, I'm also not a German lawyer, or a Chinese lawyer, or a Russian lawyer, and you're not paying me, so this is not legal advice :-) But my strongly considered engineering opinion is "Don't bet on it if it really matters." If you use the system to distribute a copyrighted work, you've still distributed a copyrighted work, even if you've shredded the paper and shipped the shreds and sticky-tape. No win. And if you try this in a country like China, where the laws are arbitrary and defined on the spot, the fact that you may not have violated the letters of a written law is potentially irrelevant. The Chinese government is currently threatening to execute someone who distributed 30000 email addresses of mainland Chinese to some foreign human-rights activists - "assisting enemies of the state" is seldom a well-defined crime; only the punishment is consistent. On the other hand, in countries that have well-defined laws, and law enforcement organizations and courts that only enforce the laws that are defined, and always want to enforce them correctly, it can be entertaining to play with technologies like this. Sometimes this gets them to change the rules, usually administratively rather than through a public political process, but sometimes it can make them look silly and feel bad about what they're doing. Ron Rivest's "Chaffing and Winnowing" protocol is a great example, and you can find details on your favorite web search engines. (Farming definitions: "Chaff" is the stuff you don't want that comes with wheat, like stems and hulls, and "winnowing" is the process of separating wheat from chaff.) Basically, you define an authentication checksum that uses a key, so only the sender and the intended recipient can validate a checksum. Then you send a series of entries like BitNumber, 0, checksum(bitN,BitNumber,key), 1, checksum(bitN,BitNumber,Key) where the checksum is correct depending on whether the bit N of the message is a 0 or a 1. There is no encryption used - only authentication, so it's perfectly legal in some jurisdictions, but only the recipient can tell which bits are "wheat" and which bits are "chaff". One of the cool things about it is that you don't need to use fake material as chaff - somebody else's wheat works just as well, because the checksums fail if you use your key on their bits. It's a very inefficient protocol, but there are ways to make it less bad (not *good*, but at least less bad.) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From billstewart at att.com Mon Dec 28 20:04:27 1998 From: billstewart at att.com (Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:04:27 +0800 Subject: FW: More (and last) on And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . . Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD59009DCAB1@mo3980po13.ems.att.com> More on the same topic -----Original Message----- From: Dave Farber [mailto:farber at cis.upenn.edu] Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 3:51 PM To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: More (and last) on And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . . Date: 28 Dec 1998 15:30:58 -0800 X-Sent: 28 Dec 1998 23:30:58 GMT To: farber at cis.upenn.edu From: "Joseph C.Pistritto" On Mon, 28 December 1998, Dave FarberSENT OUT As attractive as this might be as a conspiracy theory, Flint pretty much admitted he had the goods in this case (and claims to have similar stuff on something like 7 or 8 other Republicans and 1 democrat). He's investing quite a lot of his own funds in this particular little enterprise of his. He's apparently quite pissed off that this one leaked before he was able to use the content himself. (after all, as a publisher, the reason you develop content is to use it in print yourself primarily). A more interesting question is how the White House found out about the material a few days before it came out. (which apparently is how Roll Call which ran the story first got ahold of it). There have been persistent rumors of a White House controlled black operation to uh, bring pressure upon, certain people that are in positions to embarrass the President. Apparently at least some of this sort of activity has gone on for a long time, perhaps since the President was in Arkansas. Whether the FBI would be involved in *that* is an interesting question. Somehow I doubt it, because the risk of public exposure in that situation would be enormous, and there was already an FBI-related scandal early in this administration. Also the Administrator over there is regarded as somewhat of a loose cannon by the folks in the White House. So I kind of suspect the FBI would not be involved in White House led black ops. And I doubt the military would be involved either (given this President's relations with them.) So the reports of private detectives and other non-government people spearheading this squares with what would be rationally expected. I think the FBI may merely have either just gotten lucky and dodged a bullet on this one, -or- they had a deeper cover role in passing the stuff to Flint's people (undoubtably private individuals, so evidence, if it existed in FBI files, could've been fed to someone on the "outside"). Given that no one knew that Livingston was going to be in the position he was in till several days *after* the election, that's reasonably quick response if that is really what happened. Don't believe everything you read in the papers... Cheers, -jcp- -- Joseph C. Pistritto +1 415 706 7270 Belmont, California jcp at jcphome.com From blancw at cnw.com Mon Dec 28 23:33:36 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:33:36 +0800 Subject: More (and last) on And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . . In-Reply-To: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD59009DCAB1@mo3980po13.ems.att.com> Message-ID: <000301be32f9$bf3f6140$418195cf@blanc> This has to be the decade of Sex, so many public figures have been brought down, one way or another, by it (funny thing I heard on the news from Russia - that if they were to discover that Yelsin had had an affair with a young woman, at least they would know that he was still alive). Perhaps the effects of all this under-the-covers publicity could convince some VIPs of the imperative need for un-adulteratedH^H^H^H^Hextremely strong crypto in theirH^H^H^H^H^ "all our" lives. At least for some types of communication; they still haven't figured out how to keep their paramours from telling everyone about their adventures in wonderland. I wonder if Stewart Baker was sending out that memo with glee? And why did he send it to Dave Farber? .. Blanc From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 29 00:33:38 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:33:38 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> From: USCMike1 at aol.com Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:34:16 EST To: KatieSouix at aol.com -> SNETNEWS Mailing List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_914877258_boundary Content-ID: <0_914877258 at inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_914877258_boundary Content-ID: <0_914877258 at inet_out.mail.netdoor.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:22:22 1900 Received: from netdoor.com (netdoor.com [208.137.128.6]) by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA17219; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:22:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from kepi (port201.hat.netdoor.com [208.137.155.201]) by netdoor.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA26607; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:21:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981213222221.008aa4b0 at mail.netdoor.com> X-Sender: kepi at mail.netdoor.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:22:21 -0600 To: Kepi From: Kepi Subject: Nations at UN conference suggest SWAT teams to handle Y2K crises Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Source: Star-Telegram.Com http://www.star-telegram.com/news/doc/1047/1:COMP73/1:COMP73121298.html Updated: Saturday, Dec. 12, 1998 at 17:58 CST Nations at UN conference suggest SWAT teams to handle Y2K crises By Leslie J. Nicholson Knight Ridder Newspapers NEW YORK -- In a stark demonstration of the global scale of the Year 2000 computer problem, representatives of 130 nations gathered at the United Nations Friday to hammer out plans for dealing with Y2K. The ideas included setting up national and international "SWAT teams" to handle crises caused by the computer glitch. The U.N. conference marked the first such gathering of Y2K coordinators from several nations, including many developing countries that lag far behind the United States in remediation efforts. Y2K refers to a programming glitch that will cause some computers, softwar= e programs and microprocessors to interpret the abbreviated date 00 as 1900 rather than 2000. The result could be incorrect data processing and equipment malfunctions. "We all know that we are competing in a race against time," said Pakistani ambassador Ahmad Kamal, who hosted the conference. "Despite all the effort= s and committed work of individuals and institutions, we are far from the objective of ensuring Y2K compliance by the inflexible deadline of Dec. 31= , 1999." Fixing Y2K problems is a daunting task that involves rewriting computer codes and potentially replacing billions of microchips. U.N. Undersecretary-general Joseph E. Connor called Y2K the largest computer project in the 50-year history of the information-technology industry, but said predicting its effects accurately was impossible. He said the global cost of fixing Y2K problems could reach as high as $600 billion with an additional $1.4 trillion going for litigation. "There's no way to draw on past experience and predict what is going to fail and what consequences these failures will have," Connor said. "All we know for sure is the timing." He said nations should attack Y2K on two fronts: by deciding which systems are critical and fixing them first, and by developing contingency plans fo= r coping with computer failures. "We have to get used to the fact that some systems and facilities will not be addressed," Connor said. Delegates spent most of the day in closed-door sessions to discuss Y2K problems affecting specific industries and regions and released few detail= s of those meetings. One goal was to organize on a regional basis, including implementing the SWAT-team idea. Kamal told reporters that such teams woul= d help nations deal with problems that cross borders, such as regional power grid failures. "You cannot stop at the political border of a country," he said. Distributed by The Associated Press (AP) =A9 1998 Star-Telegram ### =A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~= =A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9 **COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receivin= g the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. [ Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ] =A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~= =A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9 --part0_914877258_boundary-- -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: USCMike1 at aol.com From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 29 00:33:56 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:33:56 +0800 Subject: [FP] National "Know Your Banker" Campaign Kick-off Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28213@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: [FP] National "Know Your Banker" Campaign Kick-off Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:12:22 -0600 To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 12/23/98 National "Know Your Banker" Campaign Kick-off Following are two combined SCAN notices regarding the "Know Your Customer" banking proposals, and our own SCAN-proposed "National Know Your Banker" campaign: 1ST NOTICE: NATIONAL DIRECT DEPOSIT WEEK The nation's banks are planning to gradually convert everyone over to electronic banking. A series of campaigns have been planned with the objective of getting people to sign up for debit-cards, smart-cards, and direct deposit banking. (Direct Deposit means that you sign an agreement with your employer to have you paycheck directly deposited into your bank account electronically.) Total electronic banking will result in a windfall profit for the banking industry as a whole. In furtherance of their goal, the week of January 25-29, 1999 has been designated as "National Direct Deposit Week." That week, banks across the country will participate in a campaign to condition people to acceptance electronic "Direct Deposit" banking. According to one promotional piece, "the Direct Deposit marketing campaign will target employers; financial institutions; government officials; as well as community, professional, and civic groups." During the promotional period, banks will offer incentives for consumers to sign up for Direct Deposit; radio promotions will be aired in local markets; and financial institutions and corporations will be encouraged to create similar activities with their customers and/or employees. So far public acceptance of electronic banking has been somewhat lackluster. However, at the upper levels of the world's banking community, the decision has been made to convert to total electronic banking linked to a global financial network. The upcoming Direct Deposit campaign is just one small example of the overall plan. Here's a link for additional information: Promoting Direct Deposit -- The Public Education Campaign http://www.ezpay.org/campaign.html 2ND NOTICE: NATIONAL KNOW YOUR BANKER WEEK SCAN would like to propose that the week of January 25-29, 1999 be declared National "Know Your Banker Week" to run concurrently with the banking industry's Direct Deposit campaign. During that week, we encourage EVERYONE to make a concerted effort to learn as much as you possibly can about your nation's banking system. Learn how check clearinghouses are already monitoring every checking transaction, and how profiling is already being done in that industry. Learn how credit card companies also currently monitor each purchase and "flag" suspicious or out-of-character activity. Find out how money is "created" (according to the Federal Reserve) at your local bank whenever a loan is "granted." Learn how every single "dollar" is loaned into circulation - at interest - which means that, at all times, more money is owed (principle + interest) than has been "created" or loaned out into the economy. Hence, we as a nation can NEVER again be "solvent;" we will be perpetually in debt to the bankers; we can never "pay back" more than has been circulated. (For explanation, see http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/CARDS.html ) Learn about "fractional reserve banking," which by definition means that only a "fraction" of the public's money can be withdrawn from the system at any given time without inducing a banking collapse. Learn how bankers use this "fraction" to "create" more "credit money" which they then "loan" to you under demand for some real property collateral. Learn how your money has been gradually debased: silver coins which used to be made of "precious metal" have been surreptitiously converted to a substrate of worthless composites sandwiched between two thin layers of slightly less-worthless "silver colored" nickel to make them resemble the genuine silver coins. In circulation, they all look the same. But the latter versions are "worth" about 90% less than the former. Even the lowly penny has been stuffed with totally valueless zinc leaving only a thin shell of co pper a few thousandths of an inch thick on the outer surface to fool the public. Seems to have worked well. Who stole the "precious" material and substituted the cheap slag? Who profited from the change (pun intended)? Was your banker a willing participant? Learn how gold and silver "certificates" which were once redeemable for warehoused gold and silver coin were substituted with worthless, un-backed "Federal Reserve Notes" that cannot be redeemed but look exactly like the redeemable certificates - save for the absence of any "promise to pay." Who was manning the warehouses when this substitution took place? Your banker perhaps? Based on what you learn from the foregoing exercise, decide whether or not the banking institution's "Know Your Customer" program is being instituted with YOUR best interest in mind. Use this "Know Your Banker" campaign to ask your banker to sign a simple affidavit certifying that your funds WILL ALL BE AVAILABLE for withdrawal "on demand" come January 1, 2000. Take the opportunity of the National Know Your Banker Week to learn about all that your banker has done and is planning to do (for you) as you are converted to total electronic banking over the next few years. (Remember, the federal government has already converted to total electronic transactions, and it can be fairly anticipated that soon all employers will be compelled to make employee payrolls using direct deposit so that payroll tax payments can be collected electronically.) Most importantly, take the opportunity of the "National Know Your Banker Week" to file a comment with any or all of the four agencies that have submitted "Know Your Customer" proposals. After the upcoming holiday period, we will provide all the necessary contact information along with a selection of sample "letters of objection" so that everyone can easily take part in this campaign. We will also provide material which will reveal that, in reality, under our current system of "fiat money," ALL banking activity IS "money laundering" engaged in BY THE BANKERS. Looking forward to your participation. Happy holidays, Scott --------------------------------------------------------- Complete detailed information on all four of the proposed Know Your Customer regulations can be found at: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml See these important links to learn more about how money is created. http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/MONEYbrief.html http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FRENEAUbanking.html http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FSanders.htm Franklin Sanders - "The Money Changer" http://www.the-moneychanger.com/ --------------------------------------------------------- Promoting Direct Deposit -- The Public Education Campaign [From the pages of the New York Clearing House Association] http://www.ezpay.org/campaign.html Campaign Goal: The goal of our campaign is to increase Direct Deposit use among consumers by 5 percent each year for the next five years. Campaign Activities: The Direct Deposit marketing campaign will reach employers, financial institutions, government officials and community, professional and civic groups. In addition, January 25-29, 1999 has been declared "Direct Deposit Week" -- an opportunity to spur excitement through incentives for consumers to sign up for Direct Deposit. Radio promotions will take place in local markets, and financial institutions and corporations are encouraged to create similar activities with their customers and/or employees. Campaign Success Over the past two years, Direct Deposit enrollment has increased by over 540,000 employees. Outreach to Employers: Top 1,000+ Employers (Fall 1998) Direct mailing to solicit interest among Payroll Managers throughout New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands Kick-off luncheons in September/October 1998 -- New York City, Long Island, Rochester, and New Jersey Catalog of promotional materials, offered at cost, for interested employers A Guide to Increasing Direct Deposit Participation [link] A Guide to Implementing Direct Deposit [link] Outreach to Financial Institutions (Fall 1998) Catalog of promotional materials, offered at cost, for banks' use with retail customers "How to Guide" for promoting Direct Deposit to retail customers Media announcement to banking trade publications, general business media Grassroots Outreach (Fall 1998) Mailing of information and materials to community, labor unions, professional associations, women's/men's groups, minority associations, fraternal groups and civic groups. Promotional Events and Media Relations (Winter 1999) Direct Deposit Week (January 25-29, 1999) Radio Promotion -- Call-in contest to answer "What is the most impulsive thing you've ever spent your paycheck on?" Winners to receive equivalent of one week's pay via Direct Deposit (up to $1,000). Media Relations -- Outreach to print and broadcast news media, both general interest (daily newspapers, local radio and television) and trade (payroll publications, banking trades); release of research survey results. Branch/Company Activities -- Financial institutions and company activities, incentives and events to celebrate Direct Deposit Week e.g. free/discounted services, giveaways of promotional items, free concert tickets or other prizes for 100th customer to sign-up, contest/quiz with week's pay as prize. We welcome your thoughts, ideas and recommendations on making the Direct Deposit Campaign a success. Please direct any questions or comments to Rossana Czelusniak or Kathy Loy at (212) 613-0166. -------------------------------------------------- http://www.nyclearinghouse.org/Welcome.html ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 29 00:37:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:37:29 +0800 Subject: [FP] FDIC receives more than 6,000 comments Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28199@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: [FP] FDIC receives more than 6,000 comments Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:53:27 -0600 To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 12/23/98 ----------------------------------------- WorldNetDaily WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 23 1998 BIG BROTHER BANKING Record response to 'Know Your Customer' FDIC receives more than 6,000 comments http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981223_xex_record_respo.shtml By Gabrielle Stevenson � 1998 WorldNetDaily.com The process for reading comments on the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation's "Know Your Customer" proposal has already started because of the increasing number of responses. At last count, the FDIC had received 6,019 responses to the plan. The most comments received in the past was 3,498, regarding a 1984 broker deposit regulation. "Usually we don't get nearly as many," said the FDIC's David Barr. "Sometimes we only get a 100 or so, and they can be read relatively quickly for internal use." Normally the FDIC doesn't read the responses until the comment period has ended. This time, however, they are trying to get a head start. "We are trying to see what people are saying," Barr said. "We have gone through them at least once so far. We do keep them all in consideration. That is what this whole process is all about." The FDIC Know Your Customer plan proposes that all banks, credit unions, and other financial organizations be required to maintain continuous surveillance of customer's accounts, and report unusual financial activity to the FBI and other agencies. [snip] see WorldNetDaily link above for balance of article. ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 29 00:41:06 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:41:06 +0800 Subject: SNET: Biometric National ID Card Being issued NOW and used to track people Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28235@netcom13.netcom.com> From: USCMike1 at aol.com Subject: SNET: Biometric National ID Card Being issued NOW and used to track people Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:03:04 EST To: KatieSouix at aol.com -> SNETNEWS Mailing List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_914875392_boundary Content-ID: <0_914875392 at inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_914875392_boundary Content-ID: <0_914875392 at inet_out.mail.netdoor.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v53.27) with SMTP; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:14:48 -0500 Received: from netdoor.com (netdoor.com [208.137.128.6]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id SAA21775; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from kepi (port579.hat.netdoor.com [208.148.200.179]) by netdoor.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA06191; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:13:32 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981214171416.007cbb30 at mail.netdoor.com> X-Sender: kepi at mail.netdoor.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:14:16 -0600 To: Kepi From: Kepi Subject: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is an important post that I feel needs circulating. Should this be a a duplicate for some of my listees, please disregard. Kepi <>< ------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "ScanThisNews" >To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" >Subject: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality >Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:13:18 -0600 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 >Importance: Normal >Sender: owner-scan at efga.org >Reply-To: owner-scan at efga.org >X-Web-Site: http://www.efga.org/ >X-Mail-List-Info: http://efga.org/about/maillist/ >X-SCAN: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml > >====================================================================== >SCAN THIS NEWS >12/13/98 > >[forwarded from Larry Becraft] >THE BIOMETRIC NATIONAL ID CARD IS NOW A REALITY... >By Jon Christian Ryter >Author of WHATEVER HAPPENED TO AMERICA? >and THE BAFFLED CHRISTIAN'S HANDBOOK > >America was rightfully alarmed in late September when Representatives Bob >Barr (R-GA) and Ron Paul (TX) revealed the fact that somehow, unbeknown to >anyone, and for some as yet unexplained reason, the National ID Card that >Hillary Clinton, Marc Tucker and Ira Magaziner had adroitly concealed in the >failed Health Security Act of 1994 had somehow "accidentally" been passed, >in a somewhat illegal and unconstitutional fashion, and was now "the law of >the land." > >Pictured (see link below) is the actual "Healthcare Passport" card currently >being used in three American cities. Displayed is the front and back of that >card. This photo was scanned from the brochure used by the National >Institute of Health to introduce the new card in a seminar in Denver earlier >this year. The word "passport" on the card had to have been a >tongue-in-cheek addition, since it is the precursor of the internal passport >that will ultimately control your ability to move freely throughout this >great land. The card is biometric. Stored on this card is the complete >medical history of the card's owner. Also stored on the card is every >conceivable piece of information about that person. Imbedded in the card is >a tracking devise. > >The plan to create and implement a National ID Card, while first made >"public" in a private White House meeting on Nov. 11, 1993 and discussed in >a disavowed protocol that detailed the dialogue of that meeting, is not >uniquely a Clintonoid idea even though the National ID Card first appears >innocuously concealed in the Health Security Act as a "healthcare benefits >card" that the First Lady insisted had to be carried by every American--even >if they refused to be covered by the plan--under penalty of law. > > The same card, in the form of a national driver's license, had just been >mandated by the European Union for all of the new European States. A brief >battle waged in Europe over the national driver's license. Most Europeans >had experienced national identity cards in the past and realized quickly the >new universal European driver's license was an internal passport that would >give their new government the tool they needed to control their lives. The >media immediately labeled those who resisted the EU driver's license as >"globalphobes" who were against progress, and wanted to return Europe to the >days of the cold war. They were the extremists. > > In the United States, the Clinton's knew a National ID Card spelled >problems, >regardless what name was put on it. However, as a healthcare card that >provided each American with thousands of dollars of free medical care, they >correctly surmised that the ramblings of the right wing zealots could be >easily dismissed by the mainstream liberal media. The media did its job >well. > >The Health Security Act was the best thing since sliced bread and peanut >butter. According to the media, the Health Security Act would provide >healthcare for the millions upon millions of uninsured Americans. The media >even obliged by ignoring the obviously flawed cost assessments as well. > >Hillary demanded that Congress pass the Health Security Act without and >changes--reminiscent of FDR's passing the "emergency legislation" that >kicked off the New Deal without allowing members of Congress to even see the >legislation they were voting on--and unconstitutionally granting Roosevelt >almost dictatorial power over the United States. Congress wasn't buying. >They read the Health Security Act. Then, they rejected it. It was, they >declared, the most expensive social experiment in the world. > >Buried in the National Archives, in the working papers of the Hillary >Clinton healthcare plan, was a game plan in the event the Health Security >Act went down in flaming defeat. The game plan? Implement another >healthcare act that provided healthcare for children. No one would dare >deny healthcare to children. To introduce the plan, they called on Teddy >Kennedy. Kennedy failed. Kennedy, they realized, was trusted by most >Americans even less than the Clintons. > >Next they turned to Orrin Hatch, who teamed up with Kennedy and rammed the >legislation through Congress. Healthcare for kids. Of course, everyone was >in favor of it. Voting against it was a good way to lose an election. And, >once the law was codified, the bureaucracy possessed the authority to simply >expand it to include anyone and everyone. > >What was not in the legislation was funding to create a biometric health >care card. The authority to do it was there, but not the money. For the >money, the Clinton administration turned to the Robert Wood Johnson >Foundation. The foundation, created by the founder of Johnson & Johnson, >obliged and funded the experimental program which was kicked off in three >western cities (noted above). > >What was introduced to members of the National Institute of Health in Denver >as a card that will record the inoculation records of children, includes >everything from DNA typing to that individual's medical, psychiatric and >financial history. It was because the biometric card would also contain the >psychiatric history of the cardholder that an employee of the National >Institute of Health approached me and offered me the data that is contained >in this report. > >In my initial meeting with the NIH employee, I was also told that this >person had commented to a NIH executive that it was not good for the card to >contain so much personal information that was not needed to monitor the >rates of inoculation of the children covered by the program, since it would >provide the government information that could easily be misused. > >At that point the NIH executive laughed and said: "What do you think we have >do with the data we get from Medicare and Medicaid? We've been using it for >years to apprehend and deport illegal aliens and to capture those wanted by >the law." > >In the case of the Health Passport, which is the precursor of the National >Driver's License that will go into affect nationwide on October 1, 2000, >however, the is one added feature--it contains a tracking chip. > >At a recent National Institute of Health seminar, an NIH executive proudly >displayed an electronic map created by the NIH computer technicians that >pinpointed every Health Passport card holder in Denver, Colorado. It was a >"living map" that would track each Health Passport card holder if and when >they moved. Whether or not such a map had been created for the other two >"pilot" cities is not known. > >NOTE: Before I left Washington this afternoon, I spoke for about a half hour >with Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club, and emailed Stan a copy of the Heath >Passport Card. Stan has additional information on this subject, particularly >with respect to a new computer mainframe that the government recently >installed in Denver that ties in with the information I have been receiving >from my own source in the National Institute of Health. Apparently this is >the planned topic for the Prophecy Club's radio talk show next Monday (and >because it is, I will not reveal any of the revelations that Stan shared >with me on the phone this afternoon. I would strongly urge you to visit >Stan's website for additional information. > >http://www.prophecyclub.com/ > >--------------------------------------------- >http://www.westgov.org/hpp/hpp-web.htm > >HEALTH PASSPORT > >A Project of the Western Governors' Association >- Frequently Asked Questions - > >Introduction to the Health Passport Project > >What is the Health Passport Project? > >The Health Passport Project is a three-city demonstration that uses what is >called a "smart card" to put important health-related information at the >fingertips of mothers and their children. People participating in the >demonstration are those eligible for care under public health programs. The >Health Passport Project is the largest health-care demonstration in the >United States for smart cards and will be conducted over two years in the >cities of Bismarck, North Dakota; Cheyenne, Wyoming; and Reno, Nevada. The >project will demonstrate how people can use these electronic cards to give >up-to-date information to their health-care providers, including physicians, >nurses, nutritionists and early childhood educators. > > >Food Retailers > >Grocers who handle thousands of checks for nutrition benefits will find the >new system involves less paperwork, results in quicker check-out, and >provides more timely reimbursement. The Health Passport works like a bank >card at the check-out counter. Benefits are automatically downloaded to the >client's card at the retailer. Distribution of WIC benefits will be >demonstrated in Reno and Cheyenne. > > >More About the Demonstrations >Which public health programs are participating? > >--- >Bismarck, North Dakota > >The Family Doctors, Bismarck Burleigh Nursing, WIC, Head Start, >Immunizations, Medicaid, the Optimal Pregnancy Outcome Program, and Maternal >and Child Health > >Bertie Bishop >(701) 255-3397 > >--- >Cheyenne, Wyoming > >Cheyenne Children's Clinic, the University of Wyoming Family Practice >Residency Center, Laramie County Public Health Nursing, Medicaid, WIC, Head >Start, Maternal and Child Health, and Immunizations > >Terry Williams >(307) 777-6008 > >--- >Reno, Nevada > >WIC, Immunizations, and Head Start >Marty Brown >(702) 883-6992 >------------------------------------------------- > >http://www.westgov.org/hpp/ > >http://www.westgov.org/wga/publicat/hppsum.htm > >Health Passport > >Information Technology: Toward a Health Card for the West > >"Congress is considering the most sweeping changes to the delivery of social >services since the New Deal. In this environment, the Health Passport >presents an innovative tool to help ensure the continued delivery of >critical services to low income women and children--even as government >sponsored programs are consolidated or eliminated. While devolution of >authority to the states is expected to reduce duplicative federal >administrative structures, the debate in Washington has done little to >provide practical solutions. The Health Passport offers a tool to help >achieve these administrative savings empowering citizens and preserving the >integrity of services." > >======================================================================= >Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: >1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or >2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. >======================================================================= >Reply to: >======================================================================= > To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to > and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. > Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. > For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. > Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: > www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml >======================================================================= > --part0_914875392_boundary-- -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: USCMike1 at aol.com From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Dec 29 00:48:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:48:29 +0800 Subject: [FP] FW: GE - Icelandic DNA database Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28224@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: [FP] FW: GE - Icelandic DNA database Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:00:29 -0600 To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 12/28/98 [Forwarded by request] -----Original Message----- From: Wolf [mailto:Fenris at reality8.demon.co.uk] Subject: GE - Icelandic DNA database This is from the genetics mail list. Can you help to circulate as they are asking for foreign intervention in the form of an e-mail campaign? I suspect that once governments can point to one country that has this sort of database in place it will be used as an example of what the rest of us should be aiming at...ycchhhh!!! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: genetics (by way of genetics ) Subject: GE - Icelandic DNA database From: Herbert Mehrtens >HELP PREVENT A BIOTECHNOLOGICAL DISASTER!!!!! > >The controversial health database bill has been passed in >the Icelandic parliament. It was approved by a vote of >37 in favor, 20 saying no, and 6 MPs absent. Before the >bill becomes a law it must be signed by the President of >Iceland, Mr. Olafur Ragnar Grimsson. > >Several wide-ranging changes were made to the bill in >the last few days. Personal protection was decreased by >stating specifically that the licensee use unencrypted >health data. Even more blatant is the new provision in >the bill that the database contain genetic information. >Formerly it was to contain only health information from >hospital charts and doctors records. > >For those who have been following the discussion, >it will be of interest to know that the bill is in >fact now a new bill--a result of the collusion between >the Ministry of Health, the government and deCODE >--and the database has now become the Icelandic DNA >-collection bill or the pharmacogenetic wonderland >bill instead of a health database bill (see also letter by >Bogi Andersen to the editor, Science, Dec. 11, 1998, >p. 1993). > >If there was any doubt as to whether an individual will be >personally identifiable, now it is certain that every >person can be traced, either individually or through >pedigrees, by using genetic tracers or DNA sequences, >in the near future. The consequences of including >genetic information are momentous. Therefore: > >1. The database bill should not be made a law nor >should it be implemented, because of ethical, privacy, >consumer and human rights concerns. > >2. If there is to be a health/genetic database in spite of >these concerns, informed consent and independent >ethical review committees are minimum requirements. > >The Icelandic Research Council which supported the bill >has abruptly withdrawn its support following an emergency >meeting on Dec. 14 because of the inclusion of genetic data >in the proposed database and infraction of free scientific >research. > >Likewise, the former President of Iceland, Mrs. Vigdis >Finnbogadottir, who sat on the Board of deCODE has >resigned due to conflict with her role as President of >UNESCO's World Commission on Scientific Knowledge >and Technology. > >For further details please refer to the website of Mannvernd, >the Icelandic Association for Ethics in Science and Medicine, >for news update in English. Also consult a graphical presentation >of the views of over 50 agencies and experts which submitted >highly critical opinions to the Health Committee of Althing as >the 2nd version of the bill was debated this fall; to no avail >as these opinions were callously ignored by the government >majority on the Health Committee: > >http://www.simnet.is/mannvernd/english/articles/03.12.1998_summary_of_op inio >ns.html > >Also see the associations' English language home page: > >http://www.simnet.is/ma nnvernd/english/index.html > >deCODE's representatives have unsuccessfully >tried to rebuke our information in the internet news >discussion groups. Thanks to DENDRITE's David Oaks >and others this has been answered in an informed and >decisive manner. > >deCODE's statement that personal information will be >anonymous is false. Anonymous means that names and ID's >have been eliminated. The database will include ID's >that, although encrypted, can be used to trace individuals, >as explained by encryption expert Ross Andersons' report: > >http://www.cl.cam.ac. uk/~rja14/iceland/iceland.html > >Most experts consider the database information personally >identifiable, which means that informed consent should be >sought, according to international ethical standards. These >concerns become magnified once genetic data is included. > >An ethical committee was introduced in the latest version of >the bill. Yet it is not specified who shall sit on the committee >and it is strongly suspected that the Minister of Health will >appoint the licensees' representative on the committee. Moreover, >that provision speaks volume for the fact that the government >does not want to recognize the irreducible bond between consent >(informed or otherwise) and ethics committees. By passing the >law the government violates sound principles of scientific ethics >and human rights. > >Also, parliamentary majority spokesmen have dicussed the >possibility of including prescription information from >drug stores in the database! This is not specified in the bill >but could be in later revisions, according to newspapers >supporting the government. This would be similar to turning >a gold mine into a diamond mine. > >The Icelandic database bill has been considered by numerous >foreign experts (see opinions on Mannvernd's website) and >is considered in the Economist (Dec. 5-12, 1998) and New Scientist >(Dec. 5th, 1998) to set a precedent of how medical and genetic >databases in other countries could be constructed and misused in >the future. > >This biotechnological disaster in the making is of international >concern and importance. We consider ourselves being on the >outpost of this battle for users' rights in new genetic research >and important biotechnology developments and we need all >the support we can get. > >We are grateful for any help we can get. Although the bill >was passed by the parliament on Dec. 17, it needs to be signed >by the President, whereafter much work needs to be done, regulations >written, agreements made with the licensee etc. > >Foreign intervention at this moment may have a crucial >effect upon future course of events. > >Please write letters of concern/protest to > >Prime Minister Mr. David Oddsson, >Stjornarradshusinu >Laekjatorg >Reykjavik >Iceland > >E-mail: postur at for.stjr.is >Fax: 00354+562 4014 > >and > >Minister of Health Ms. Ingibjorg Palmadottir >Arnarhvoli >Reykjavik >Iceland > >E-mail: postur at htr.stjr.is >Fax: 00354+551 9165 > > >with a copy to Mannvernd, > >yours sincerely, > >Petur Hauksson, chairman >Icelandic Mental Health Alliance (Gedhjalp) >Tryggvagotu 9 >101 Reykjavik >Iceland > >peturh at itn.is >gedhjalp at isholf.is ----------------(-x?)nS(r7A)------------------ Fenris Wolf http://members.xoom.com/Astraea/CAPACS.htm http://members.xoom.com/Astraea/RSPCAhelp.htm http://www.marketersworld.com/members/Fenris/ ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= From bc192 at freenet.carleton.ca Tue Dec 29 01:32:56 1998 From: bc192 at freenet.carleton.ca (Chris Rowley) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:32:56 +0800 Subject: PWL files Message-ID: <199812290909.EAA22365@freenet3.carleton.ca> I've been trying to figure out the method of encryption for OSR2 Win95 and Win98 *.pwl files and I was hoping someone had some details about the method used. I've been told that resources are encrypted using RC4 with a MD5 hash of the password as the key, although I haven't had any luck using this information to decrypt resources with a known password. Does anyone have it figured out? From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 29 01:39:31 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:39:31 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <36889DC9.FF8245BE@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > > From: USCMike1 at aol.com > > NEW YORK -- In a stark demonstration of the global scale of the Year 2000 > computer problem, representatives of 130 nations gathered at the United > Nations Friday to hammer out plans for dealing with Y2K. > > The ideas included setting up national and international "SWAT teams" to > handle crises caused by the computer glitch. > > The U.N. conference marked the first such gathering of Y2K coordinators > from several nations, including many developing countries that lag far > behind the United States in remediation efforts. > > Y2K refers to a programming glitch that will cause some computers, softwar= > e > programs and microprocessors to interpret the abbreviated date 00 as 1900 > rather than 2000. The result could be incorrect data processing and > equipment malfunctions. Is is (approximately) known how many percent of the owners of computer systems have ever tried with some test cases to find out whether their hardware/software could be susceptible to the Y2K problem? I guess such tests would deliver some confidence intervals of whether the problem could actually arise at 2000. M. K. Shen From whgiii at openpgp.net Tue Dec 29 03:05:00 1998 From: whgiii at openpgp.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:05:00 +0800 Subject: New! Active Virtual Firewall Message-ID: <199812290942.EAA158.53@whgiii> I thought this may be of interest (or at least a chuckel). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following message is forwarded to you by "William H. Geiger III" (listed as the From user of this message). The original sender (see the header, below) was jim kalember and has been set as the "Reply-To" field of this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip >Subject: New! Active Virtual Firewall >Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:36:56 -0800 >Organization: PAL >Message-ID: <36887888.3A995E06 at ix.netcom.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: whx-ca1-23.ix.netcom.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 We have just completed technology validation demo for an "active virtual firewall" that utilizes a new technique, software genetics, to secure remotes and hosts. Technical details are available from . The approach is virtually impervious to a text hack and should be investigated by anyone serious about securing VPN to Internet portals, or any private network. This is new technology--no data is encrypted. Technical details from our developers at . -- Jim Kalember VP Technical Staffing Professional Access Limited ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- We have just completed technology validation demo for an "active virtual firewall" that utilizes a new technique, software genetics, to secure remotes and hosts. Technical details are available from . The approach is virtually impervious to a text hack and should be investigated by anyone serious about securing VPN to Internet portals, or any private network. This is new technology--no data is encrypted. Technical details from our developers at . -- Jim Kalember VP Technical Staffing Professional Access Limited � From howree at cable.navy.mil Tue Dec 29 05:19:05 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:19:05 +0800 Subject: Kha0s Linux Distribution In-Reply-To: <199812290233.UAA28178@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981229225348.0098d340@205.83.192.13> At 08:33 PM 12/28/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote: >>From the webpage at Kha0s.org: > >> Expect the first beta release of kha0S to include Matt >> Blaze's CFS. It has been around for a while and has had >> the benefit of review by the cryptographic community. > >A good start, I guess. > A better start would be a URL for download,,,, having no applicable background I can only wonder what I might be able to contribute to the effort,,, Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From howree at cable.navy.mil Tue Dec 29 05:50:49 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:50:49 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981229232715.0088dd30@205.83.192.13> At 10:15 AM 12/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: --snip of magnanimous import-- > >Is is (approximately) known how many percent of the owners of computer >systems have ever tried with some test cases to find out whether >their hardware/software could be susceptible to the Y2K problem? >I guess such tests would deliver some confidence intervals of >whether the problem could actually arise at 2000. > What, you trying to downplay the tumult and ? that y2k will cause??? the fearmongerers will not be happy with you. They want everyone to be begging them for mercy, safety, deliverance from the y2k bug. What? you say consumers should actually test their own shit? You forgot to mention the outside consultants who should be brought in at xyz dollars per hour. To think that Joel and Janice Consumer might actually be able to test their own equipment for y2k compliance. y2k is coming, or else!!! (read, it will be manufactured if it does not eventualize itself). Reeza! ============================================================================ DH Key available upon request. The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 29 08:36:31 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:36:31 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3688FB23.F6F3FA0D@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Reeza! wrote: > > At 10:15 AM 12/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > --snip of magnanimous import-- > > > >Is is (approximately) known how many percent of the owners of computer > >systems have ever tried with some test cases to find out whether > >their hardware/software could be susceptible to the Y2K problem? > >I guess such tests would deliver some confidence intervals of > >whether the problem could actually arise at 2000. > > > > What, you trying to downplay the tumult and ? that y2k will cause??? the > fearmongerers will not be happy with you. They want everyone to be begging > them for mercy, safety, deliverance from the y2k bug. > > What? you say consumers should actually test their own shit? You forgot to > mention the outside consultants who should be brought in at xyz dollars per > hour. To think that Joel and Janice Consumer might actually be able to test > their own equipment for y2k compliance. > > y2k is coming, or else!!! (read, it will be manufactured if it does not > eventualize itself). In WHICH word I wrote I was downplaying??? I think you are up-playing! Are you a consultant, desiring to earn money? If not, then try to keep discussion to real matters of the problem. M. K. Shen From howree at cable.navy.mil Tue Dec 29 09:05:44 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:05:44 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981230023707.009913c0@205.83.192.13> At 04:54 PM 12/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > >In WHICH word I wrote I was downplaying??? I think you are up-playing! >Are you a consultant, desiring to earn money? If not, then try >to keep discussion to real matters of the problem. > Sorry, yes I am up-playing, for the sake of humor. No, I'm not a consultant, Yes I desire to earn money, and the real problem (as I see it) isn't with the hardware or software, it is with what people will do. Regardless of anything relevant or irrelevant, what the sheeple think can happen, what they see happen, what really does happen and how some of them will over-react to it. All the Gov't's making plans for martial law is an enormous alarm going off in my head,,,, Reeza! ============================================================================ The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense. "Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt." -- my older sister "Shhhhh. You're flooding my inbox with crap. How about giving it a rest for a bit? I know you're probably bored wherever you are, but please." -- krys From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 29 09:14:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:14:45 +0800 Subject: FW: Repeal Compulsory-School Laws? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Carla Howell To: "General lpma (E-mail)" Subject: FW: Repeal Compulsory-School Laws? Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:45:41 -0500 Sender: owner-general at lpma.org -----Original Message----- From: Jack Shimek [SMTP:jshimek at jaqboot.mv.com] Sent: Saturday, December 26, 1998 11:06 AM To: Jack Shimek Subject: Repeal Compulsory-School Laws? Separation of School and State Alliance - New Hampshire ******************************************** The following article is brought to you courtesy of SepSchool-NH If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, please reply with your request to be removed. Thank you. ******************************************** *****REPEAL COMPULSORY-SCHOOL LAWS? ***** Backers Say Learning And Innovation At Stake Date: 12/2/98 Author: Aaron Steelman (c) Copyright 1998 Investors Business Daily, Inc. Three years ago, state Rep. Russell George, a Republican, offered an amendment to repeal the Colorado law that mandates school attendance for children between ages 6 and 16. George's reason: Disruptive kids who would rather not be in school were causing problems for attentive students. "I posed a simple theory," George said. "If you want better education, then you are better off having people in the system who want to learn. We shouldn't be using schools as juvenile justice detention centers. "That forces learning at the lowest common denominator. And until we figure that out, we are not going to get a handle on why the public schools aren't doing well," he said. What's more, some critics of the attendance laws say repealing them could lead to a flowering of innovative private schools. Repeal also could free the estimated 1.7 million children who are schooled at home from burdensome regulations. Such benefits, analysts say, could entice other states to follow Colorado's lead and reconsider the wisdom of compulsory school attendance. Every state requires children to attend school until they earn a high-school diploma or until they reach a certain age, typically 16 or 18. Massachusetts passed the first compulsory-schooling law in 1852. Most states (and former territories) followed suit over the next several decades. George's amendment to repeal the compulsory-attendance laws died in committee, but many parents and frustrated teachers supported the change. The idea was particularly popular in rural western Colorado. But it had supporters statewide, says Arthur Ellis, assistant commissioner of the Colorado Department of Education. "I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a similar bill brought forward in the next session," Ellis said. If so, it will have a powerful champion in George, who is the new speaker of the Colorado House. Colorado's education establishment is not keen on repealing the state's century-old attendance laws, however. By repealing its attendance laws, the state would be "abandoning" its responsibility to kids, says Jeanne Beyer, director of communications for the Colorado Education Association. Democrat Michael Feeley, minority leader of the Colorado Senate, said: "We would grow an underclass of uneducated, unemployable, illiterate kids who would be sticking a gun in your ribs because that's the only thing they would be capable of doing." On the contrary, "It's actually the system that has abandoned the kids," said Sheldon Richman, senior fellow at the Future of Freedom Foundation. "It sticks them in a custodial facility and lets them languish." Richard Seder, education studies director at the Reason Public Policy Institute in Los Angeles, said that compulsory attendance can contribute to violence in the schools. "A student who doesn't want to be at school and is forced to be there will act out, (either) through intimidation of other students or intimidation of teachers and administrators," Seder said. It's not clear that repealing compulsory-attendance laws would actually put kids on the streets, says E.G. West, an emeritus economics professor at Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario, and author of "Education and the State." West studied compulsory-attendance laws in Britain and found that education was widespread before schooling was mandatory and free. "There were upward trends in both literacy and school attendance" before compulsory-schooling laws passed, West said. In the mid-1800s, school attendance rates were growing twice as fast as the population. By 1870, the British literacy rate was more than 90%, and nearly all kids received some formal schooling. What's more, many youths benefited from apprenticeship programs. "A lot of the firms that employed younger people provided them with education on the job," West said. If all that's true, why were the compulsory-attendance laws passed in the first place? "I think the primary reason was to eliminate competition in the labor force," said Mary Novello, author of "For All the Wrong Reasons: The Story Behind Government Schools." She says some of the support for mandatory schooling came from labor organizers who thought young workers were taking jobs from adults. Marshall Fritz, director of the Fresno, Calif.-based Separation of School & State Alliance, thinks that the attendance laws create an artificial distinction between campus schooling and everyday, less-formal learning. If the laws are repealed, he says, that distinction will be blurred, and innovative schools will prosper. That's badly needed, Fritz says, because most private schools now mirror the public schools in their approach. "I think the government schools are teaching the kids to run a 17-minute mile," he said. "The private schools are teaching them to run a 13- or 14-minute mile. And they look great in comparison, because in the race of the slow, someone has to be first." Richman, the author of "Separating School and State," shares Fritz's frustration about private schools' lack of creativity. But he's less optimistic about alternative schools sprouting up. For that to happen, he says, it may be necessary to eliminate the taxes that fund public schools as well as to repeal attendance laws. "When Christopher Whittle set up the Edison Project (a system of private, for-profit schools), he said he was going to reinvent the school. But he ran up against the problem that a lot of people who were already paying taxes for schools didn't also want to spend money for tuition," Richman said. However, repealing compulsory-attendance laws would instantly make life easier for many home-schoolers, says Michael Farris, father of 10 home-schooled children and president of the Home School Legal Defense Association in Purcellville, Va. The laws not only say that kids must go to school, but they also define what is and is not a school, Farris says. Consider the case of Stephen and Lois Pustell of Lynn, Mass. They home school their three school-aged children. They've been in a court battle with their local school district since '91. The school district says it should be able to inspect the family's home to see how the kids are being taught. The Pustells object. "In our case, they were willing to waive all the other requirements (for home-schoolers, including an annual review of the curricula and the students' progress) except for the home visits," Mr. Pustell said. "Without the compulsory-attendance law, there would be no justification at all for what they are trying to do." Despite the Pustells' situation, Farris says home-schoolers are having fewer problems now than in the past. "There's no question that things have moved in a more lenient direction in the last 15 years. If you were a home-schooler in the early '80s, there was a high probability that you would be prosecuted," Farris said. In '96, Hawaii lowered its compulsory-attendance age to 16 from 18. Other states have considered similar changes. Will Colorado go all the way and repeal its attendance laws? Ellis said that the Colorado Department of Education isn't "going to lead the charge to repeal the laws, but we're not going to put any energy into preserving them, either." But you can count on teachers unions to put up a fight. "Even though you could probably find lots of frustrated teachers (who would like to see the attendance laws repealed), organizationally we wouldn't support that," the Colorado Education Association's Beyer said. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Dec 29 10:32:37 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:32:37 +0800 Subject: PWL files In-Reply-To: <199812290909.EAA22365@freenet3.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <199812291333.NAA03382@server.eternity.org> Chris Rowley writes: > I've been trying to figure out the method of encryption for OSR2 Win95 and > Win98 *.pwl files and I was hoping someone had some details about the > method used. [...] Does anyone have it figured out? I think Peter Gutmann and someone else figured it out sometime ago. Probably you could find the info on Peter's web page: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/ or search the archives for "PWL" && "windows". Adam From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Dec 29 10:37:53 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:37:53 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <36891A04.3CAA067F@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Reeza! wrote: > Sorry, yes I am up-playing, for the sake of humor. No, I'm not a > consultant, Yes I desire to earn money, and the real problem (as I see it) > isn't with the hardware or software, it is with what people will do. > Regardless of anything relevant or irrelevant, what the sheeple think can > happen, what they see happen, what really does happen and how some of them > will over-react to it. > > All the Gov't's making plans for martial law is an enormous alarm going off > in my head,,,, What I guess is very bad currently is that plenty of owners of the computer systems appear to be shy of facing squarely with the problem and of conducting some direct tests to get at least some real feeling of the problem that quite probably may occur. (It's like one is not inclined to consult the doctors until the illness becomes very grave. Certainly this is only my superficial observation. I may be very wrong.) Of course, such tests, if not well designed, may not deliver the hoped-for results. But having the courage to do some tests is anyway better than to avoid considering the problem till the day when Y2K really hurts. I am ignorant of how hard it is indeed to devise some realistic tests for Y2K. On the other hand, I can't imagine that these could be anything terribly difficult. If there are huge data bases involved, one could copy a part to a separate hardware and do experiments with it by entering data of Y2K and manipulating the system clock. If nothing happens, then one gains at least some assurance and can proceed to do more sophisticated tests. If something goes wrong, one knows directly what kind of misery one could expect to have at 2000 if the problem is ignored today and can thus energetically look for the remedy. I speculate that most firms can start to do some tests with their own staffs, i.e. without external consultants. M. K. Shen From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 29 11:06:16 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:06:16 +0800 Subject: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:43:47 -0500 To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Subject: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:47:08 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Nev Dull Forwarded-by: Satya Palani =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:44:53 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD On 5 Dec 1998, Julian Assange wrote: >> Do you really expect people here, on this list to say >> "Use OpenBSD" or "Use Linux" or etc? > > `Use NetBSD' Use a toaster oven. Toaster ovens have excellent network security characteristics. For example, they are not susceptible to any IMAP-based buffer overflow attacks; additionally, current toaster ovens are not known to have any bugs in their TCP/IP stacks, nor have been vulnerable to any in the recent past (according to CERT advisories, anyway). Toaster ovens require console access to perform administrative functions (such as modification of temperature settings), but this will not impede deployment in a number of environment. Toaster ovens may be vulnerable to a remote denial of service attack involving manipulation of power lines -- however, most operating systems running on standard hardware are also vulnerable to this attack. I have found that my toaster oven has served me well for a number of years, and produces excellent grilled cheese sandwiches, which is far better than my pentium running FreeBSD, largely because the cooling fan on the pentium does too good a job. Go figure. Maybe if I get a pentium pro? Neither my FreeBSD box nor my toaster oven has suffered from a security problem in a while. Robert N Watson robert at fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 21:44:36 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Robert Watson wrote: > Use a toaster oven. Toaster ovens have excellent network security > characteristics. For example, they are not susceptible to any IMAP-based > buffer overflow attacks; additionally, current toaster ovens are not known A friend of mine points out that toaster ovens are susceptible to a buffer overflow involving pieces of bread exceeding the safe bread limit in the oven, which can result in a fire, or at the very least, a lot of burnt bread. As such, I am no longer planning to deploy toaster ovens as web servers on our network. Apologies for any misleading details concerning the reliability of toaster ovens in hostile environments -- I hope no one has made purchasing decisions based on this misinformation! Robert N Watson robert at fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From dvf at btm.de Wed Dec 30 03:09:14 1998 From: dvf at btm.de (dvf at btm.de) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:09:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Online Sales SkyRocket With Real-Time Credit Card Processing Message-ID: <199812301105.MAA22147@ns.btm.de> INCREASE SALES UP TO 1500% ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS OVER THE INTERNET ***NO SETUP FEES*** Good Credit / Bad Credit/ No Credit ***NO PROBLEM*** It Just Doesn't Matter - Everyone Gets Approved No Upfront Fees For Application-Processing While Others Charge You From $195 TO $250 To Get Set Up WE CHARGE ZERO FOR SETUP FEES!! Limited Offer So Take Advantage Of It!! 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CALL 1(800) 600-0343 ext. 1625 ************************************************************ The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against the Global Remove List at: FFcvfgt at gmx.de Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general public get removed from bulk mailings lists and has not sent this message. If you want their help please add your name to their list and we you will not receive a bulk email from us or any other ethical bulk emailer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ************************************************************************************ From stugreen at realtime.net Tue Dec 29 12:21:14 1998 From: stugreen at realtime.net (Stu Green) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:21:14 +0800 Subject: THE REGISTER [Relaxation Of Encryption Export Constraints (Not really, but better than Wassenau) - Stu] Message-ID: <368933D9.4E56E82E@realtime.net> From stugreen at realtime.net Tue Dec 29 12:33:46 1998 From: stugreen at realtime.net (Stu Green) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:33:46 +0800 Subject: THE REGISTER [I bin einer Noski, Tooski - Stu] Message-ID: <36893454.1958EBC@realtime.net> From stugreen at realtime.net Tue Dec 29 12:44:16 1998 From: stugreen at realtime.net (Stu Green) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:44:16 +0800 Subject: Culture News from Wired News [news From The Chaos Communications Congress (Berlin) - Stu] Message-ID: <36893921.6ACE44F8@realtime.net> From jeradonah at juno.com Tue Dec 29 12:49:11 1998 From: jeradonah at juno.com (jeradonah lives) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:49:11 +0800 Subject: distribution scheme In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981228010513.008cc410@idiom.com> Message-ID: <19981229.150928.4551.1.jeradonah@juno.com> On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:05:13 -0800 Bill Stewart writes: >Falcon, aka FitugMix, wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or other >contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each byte in >stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's not really >encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be hard to read. this concept is virtually identical to fractal encryption, where a message is chopped into its component parts (25 a's, 3 b's, 8 c's, and so on) and also chopped into a configuration scheme. this form of encryption does fall under the definition of munitions by the u.s. government... ac ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From calumn at netcomuk.co.uk Tue Dec 29 13:55:29 1998 From: calumn at netcomuk.co.uk (Calumn Shearer) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 05:55:29 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Seasons Greetings [Ref: 42057]] Message-ID: <36894498.7418B40@netcomuk.co.uk> Taking confidentiality to an extreme..... Apparently, micro$oft are giving out christmas wishes on a "need to know" basis. OEMNews wrote: > Dear Calumn Shearer > > __________________________________________________________________ > > The Microsoft System Builder team would like to wish you a very happy > Christmas and a successful 1999. > > __________________________________________________________________ > >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE << > The information contained in this email is proprietary and confidential, > and > is intended only for users of the Microsoft OEM Web site as > "confidential > information" under your Web Site Registration and License Agreement. > If you (or your company) are not licensed to use the Web site, then any > use, copying, and distribution of information contained in this message > is > strictly prohibited. > If you received this message in error, please immediately notify us by > sending email > to msoemnet at microsoft.com. > (c) 1998 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. > Microsoft and Windows NT are either registered trademarks or trademarks > of Microsoft Corporation > in the United States and/or other countries. > Microsoft OEM products are licensed to system builders by Microsoft > Licensing, Inc., a wholly owned > subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation. > This email is provided for informational purposes only. From xasper8d at lobo.net Tue Dec 29 16:36:16 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:36:16 +0800 Subject: cookie sniffers? In-Reply-To: <36894498.7418B40@netcomuk.co.uk> Message-ID: <002901be3376$30aaa5c0$03000004@ibm> While you register for a hotmail acct., do they sniff around to see who you really are? Or is it anon? X From mlanett at frohike.com Tue Dec 29 16:53:18 1998 From: mlanett at frohike.com (Mark Lanett) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:18 +0800 Subject: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD Message-ID: <003901be337d$e533d320$010101c0@aboutbox.meer.net> Use an etch-a-sketch. Etch-a-sketch displays are not vulnerable to power-line denial-of-service attacks or fires. They *are* vulnerable to data loss during earthquakes or if physical access is obtained, however most operating systems running on standard hardware are also vulnerable to attacks of this nature. They are not vulnerable to remote electronic eavesdropping, as they emit no power signature, in fact no emissions of any kind. I am not familiar with TEMPEST specifications, however, and can not claim this level of security. ~mark From: Robert Watson >Use a toaster oven. [...] >Toaster ovens may be vulnerable to a remote denial of service attack >involving manipulation of power lines -- however, most operating systems >running on standard hardware are also vulnerable to this attack. From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 29 16:53:32 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:32 +0800 Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Chip Ford" To: "MassLP Reflector" , "MassGOP Listserv" Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:31:11 -0500 Sender: owner-general at lpma.org Citizens for Limited Taxation & Government PO Box 408 * Peabody, MA 01960 Phone: (508) 384-0100 * E-Mail: cltg at cltg.org Visit our website at: http://cltg.org --------------------------------------------------------------- *** CLT&G Update *** Tuesday, December 29, 1998 The Boston Globe Monday, December 28, 1998 The US suffered through turmoil in '98 -- 1798, that is By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist, 12/28/98 So shocking were the president's deeds, so extreme were his opponents, so furiously did partisan passions roil the public, that by the end of '98 some of the nation's most eminent leaders were questioning whether America's experiment with constitutional democracy was coming undone. No, not the Clinton scandals. The year was 1798. John Adams was in the White House and the United States was undergoing an agony of political turmoil. It was a bitter time, but it produced two of the most remarkable statements on liberty and limited government in our history - the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798. Americans were sharply divided over a host of issues that year, none more so than US-French relations. The Federalists, who controlled the presidency and both houses of Congress, deeply mistrusted the French revolutionaries and refused to support them when France went to war with Britain. Republicans led by Thomas Jefferson were sympathetic to the French cause, which they identified with America's own revolt against royal abuse two decades earlier. The Jeffersonians denounced Adams and the Federalists as "monarchists" and "Tories" - denunciations echoed by a growing population of anti-British immigrants. Angered by Washington's neutrality, France began seizing American vessels. US diplomats in France were snubbed. A scandal erupted - the famous XYZ Affair - when agents of the French foreign minister, Talleyrand, demanded a bribe from President Adams's emissaries. Federalists were outraged; war fever swept the country. There were rumors that France was planning an invasion - and that Vice President Jefferson, whose Republican supporters were violently condemning the federal government, would join the invaders and overthrow the Adams administration. In this superheated atmosphere, Congress and the president enacted a package of grotesquely unconstitutional laws. The Alien Enemies Act empowered the president to jail or expel without trial any foreigner he deemed "dangerous to the peace." The Sedition Act prohibited all criticism of federal officials made "with intent to defame." Just seven years after the ratification of the First Amendment, editors, printers, and politicians were hauled into court and sent to prison for the crime of opposing the president. Jefferson and James Madison - who called the Sedition Act a "monster that must forever disgrace its parents" - resolved to strike back. Knowing that a Supreme Court fight would lose (the bench was dominated by Federalists), they decided to attack through the state legislatures. Working with allies in Kentucky and Virginia, Jefferson and Madison arranged for each state's general assembly to adopt a statement protesting the new laws. Jefferson drafted the Kentucky resolution, which was passed on Nov. 16, 1798. Madison wrote the Virginia resolution, which was adopted on Christmas Eve. "Resolved," the Kentucky Legislature declared in its opening paragraph, "that whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." Supreme authority in America, it argued, was held not by the federal government but by the people and the states, and Congress and the president had only those powers clearly delegated to them by the Constitution. The Alien and Sedition Acts were intolerable above all because the federal government had no right to enact them. In the 20th century, the 10th Amendment has been largely ignored, but in the Kentucky Resolution, Jefferson quoted it repeatedly: "It is true as a general principle, and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the Constitution, that �the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."' Nothing in the Constitution gave federal officials any right to interfere with freedom of speech or the press, or to exercise any jurisdiction over aliens. "Therefore, the act of Congress passed on the 14th day of July, 1798 ... is not law, but is altogether void, and of no effect." The Virginia Resolution was also blunt. Congress and the president, Madison wrote, have only the powers "enumerated in that compact [the Constitution]; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers not granted by the said compact, the states ... have the right and are duty bound to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil." These resolutions weren't empty theory. They were a forceful defense of freedom, and a reminder that when governments are allowed to infringe the liberty of A, it is only a matter of time before they move on to B's. "The friendless alien has indeed been selected as the safest subject of a first experiment," declared the Kentucky resolution, "but the citizen will soon follow - or rather has already followed, for already has a Sedition Act marked him as its prey." Jefferson and Madison were fearful, as more Americans should be today, of allowing power to be concentrated in the central government. They won the battle: Americans came to hate the Alien and Sedition Acts, and the Federalists were thrown out in the election of 1800. But did they win the war? In our day, the federal government has grown monstrous, strangling Americans' freedom through endless regulations, restrictions, and taxes. The bicentennial of the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions reminds us how much we have lost - and points the way to win it back. Jeff Jacoby is a Globe columnist. You can write Jeff at Jacoby at globe.com. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "The Only Alternative to Limited Taxation and Government is Unlimited Taxation and Government" --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From whiterose at liveinfreedomor.die Tue Dec 29 17:40:02 1998 From: whiterose at liveinfreedomor.die (whiterose at liveinfreedomor.die) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:02 +0800 Subject: QuickEmail, A Web-based E-mail message Message-ID: <199812300118.UAA07523@sol00371.dn.net> SSA, IRS, VA A-OK FOR Y2K President Clinton says that the U.S. Treasury Financial Management System has completed testing by independent auditors and is now "certified as Y2K (Year 2000) compliant." The Y2K problem or "millennium bug" is found in old programs that (because their authors used only two rather than four digits to designate years) will make mistakes when doing calculations based on dates. The Social Security Administration has led the way in dealing with the Y2K problem, which it first started working on in 1989. (San Jose Mercury News 29 Dec 98) A service provided by TechAID Computer Services, http://www.techaid.net The e-mail address of the sender MAY NOT BE AUTHENTIC. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Dec 29 17:53:16 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:53:16 +0800 Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd) Message-ID: <199812300141.TAA03820@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:57:08 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 > Jefferson and Madison were fearful, as more Americans should > be today, of allowing power to be concentrated in the central > government. The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid centralization. A better way to word this is that we should be afraid of the federal government becoming the central government. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From athena at cyberpass.net Tue Dec 29 17:56:05 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:56:05 +0800 Subject: STUDENTS WEB SITE COVERED BY THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH Message-ID: <4fc6b9e3f0c97c1da3b0d3a1abcf1da9@anonymous> A federal judge has ruled against the school district of a Missouri high school student suspended because he and his sister posted a personal Web page using vulgar language to criticize the school's official Web site. U.S. District Court Judge Rodney Sippel has issued a preliminary injunction barring the school district from suspending the student, punishing him, or restricting his ability to post his personal home page. Sippel's opinion asserts: "Dislike or being upset by the content of a student's speech is not an acceptable justification for limiting student speech." (AP 28 Dec 98) From ryan at venona.com Tue Dec 29 18:02:48 1998 From: ryan at venona.com (Ryan Lackey) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:02:48 +0800 Subject: "Hit 'em Where They Ain't": Deploying Digital Bearer Transactions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981229213622.L344@arianrhod.@> [BTW, there's a new mailing list to discuss how technical implementation details of DBS would [hypothetically] affect market dynamics, user experience, etc. -- send mail to pecunia-request at venona.org if interest. It's for stuff a bit too technical for dbs, and stuff too tenuously connected to cryptography for a mailing list like cryptography or coderpunks.] Quoting Todd Boyle (tboyle at rosehill.net): > Much hot air has been expended on directions in which accounting systems > will be re-architected for the internet. Meanwhile Quickbooks continues past > 90% and up, in small and medium sized businesses. It has got the user > interface solved, among many other problems. There is no possibility anybody > will take away the Quickbooks market in the next 3-5 years. I hate this. > But it's reality. > [suggestion: integrate electronic cash clients into Quickbooks] The same argument could be made for integration with the successful shopping cart systems (for retail purchasing), the successful web server (apache, maybe netscape and ms iis if you are feeling charitable), the popular internet client platform (netscape or maybe msie). I believe in this theory to an extent. Unfortunately, it seems easier to develop a platform-independent client for a DBS system first in standalone mode, then work on integrating into various existing applications. * Development and testing tools for generic systems such as Java are generally far superior to those for closed systems * A development team experienced in the other details of a payment system (cryptography, network protocols, security) is more likely to be familiar with generic software development than with developing for a specific application * Debugging a standalone client is generally far easier than debugging a plugin for an application which may itself have bugs. * Disagreements as to which particular proprietary systems should be supported. While Quickbooks, for instance, may control the business accounting market, packages such as quicken are more entrenched for individual (and perhaps very small business), and very large corporations use different packages. Which market segment, even for just accounting, should be the target? * The risk that a proprietary vendor will change the interface on the development team partway through development, or will go out of business, or become less important in the marketplace -- this is more of an issue the longer the product development cycle is. * Substantial minorities who are very attached to particular tools, in contrast to the majority of the target market -- witness the macintosh minority. This is because of the interface, legacy plugins, or whatever, and basically needs to be taken as a given. Looking at another popular crypto application which I believe had considered this issue is PGP. The core functionality of PGP, especially until relatively recently, has been to send encrypted email messages. A fairly compelling number of users use a small number of mail programs (Eudora, maybe Netscape Mail, maybe MS Exchange/Outlook). However, PGP chose to develop and continue developing a standaline application, leaving it to third parties to integrate PGP with existing mail readers. One logic would have said PGP should have created a standalone mail program, subsuming whatever functionality a tool like Eudora offers. There are a few reasons this might be worthwhile -- easier integration for the user by virtue of only having a single tool to use, both in configuration and in daily use -- perhaps market reasons such as greater profits -- greater brand identity -- assurances of secure behavior by the underlying levels (since they're integrated into the applications). However, there are many reasons subsuming the mailer functionality into the security application doesn't make sense. First of all, it was not necessarily known that electronic mail would be such a compelling application for PGP (well, actually it was). Additionally, they rightly noted that people would be reluctant to leave their existing mail programs (additionally, the market was a bit more fractioned at the time). There were the same problems with integrating into multiple applications, and also I don't think Phil Z. or the other early PGP developers had much experience developing application-plug-ins for any of the major mail clients. There are probably other factors involved here which I haven't addressed. My take on the question of how to do clients is that one should first develop functional standalone clients, with a well defined API, then either find existing people doing plug-ins or third-party applications and get them to do the integration work (keeping the code in the main line of the application, if possible, to keep it compatible with the latest releases of the product). Additionally, in some cases there exist wide-ranging standards which are easy to implement (such as the UNIX standards for stdin/stdout and argument handling, or perhaps HTTP/HTML, or maybe at some point XML or OFX) which should be implemented. There are also some applications which are so widespread that their own internal interface standard, if well documented and relatively unchanging, is worth writing to -- perhaps this is the case for browser plug-ins for Netscape and MS IE, perhaps for MS Office add-ons, and maybe the case for Eudora. However, in most of these cases, I'd be much happier writing a standalone system first, getting most of the development process out of the way, then doing a shorter development cycle to integrate the well-tested codebase into a third-party application...this lowers the window of risk for changes in the third party application as well as providing the above advantages. In the long run, though, I agree that integrating DBS into existing accounting systems at least as well as current payment systems, and probably far better, is of very high importance. I wasn't aware quickbooks was that popular, and will look at it soon...it sounds like it would be an interesting package to work with. Happy New Years, Ryan ryan at venona.com From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 29 18:42:40 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:42:40 +0800 Subject: Hoppe on Defense Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Mises Institute News" To: Subject: Hoppe on Defense Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:53:24 -0600 Sender: miseslist-owner at mises.org Status: U We are pleased to announce another paper in our Essays in Political Economy series: "The Private Production of Defense" by Hans-Hermann Hoppe (Professor of Economics, University of Nevada, Las Vegas; Senior Fellow, the Ludwig von Mises Institute). >From the essay: "Among the most popular and consequential beliefs of our age is the belief in collective security. Nothing less significant than the legitimacy of the modern state rests on this belief. And yet, the idea of a collective security is a myth that provides no justification for the modern state. Private-property owners, cooperation based on the division of labor, and market competition can and should provide defense from aggression." This powerful and radical essay can be purchased here http://mises.org/product.asp?sku=p131 or by calling 334-844-2500. The price is $4.00 postpaid (no postage charges will appear on your credit card, regardless of what your shopping basket says). * * * * * A special 4-page, supplemental Austrian Economics Newsletter has been published this quarter. It features an interview with Roberta Modugno of the Center for the Methodology of the Social Sciences at the Libera Universita Internazionale degli Studi Sociali in Rome, Italy. She discusses her new book, Murray N. Rothbard e il libertarismo amerciano (Robbettino Ediotre, Soveria Mannelli, 1998). Students and faculty have been mailed a copy of this special AEN. If you are not on the list to receive one, email susan at mises.org with your address. Subscriptions to the AEN are $16 a year. Something to look forward to for Spring 1999: An interview With Richard Vedder (Ohio University) * * * * * The new Mises Review features David Gordon reviewing books by Allen Oakley on Austrian economics; Francis Beckwith and Gregory Koukl on relativism; Richard John Neuhaus et al. on judicial tyranny; Zbegniew Brzezinksi on American foreign policy; Jim Sleeper on liberal racism; Michael Levin on race; and Ronald Dworkin on affirmative action. Individual copies are $5. Subscriptions are $16 per year. Back issues are available on Mises.org. Subscribe: http://mises.org/product.asp?sku=MR * * * * * As we approach the new year, we wish you a happy one, and hope you enjoy Clifford F. Thies's article on millennial hysteria and its historic connection with socialist ideology. http://mises.org/fullstory.asp?FS=+%3Ch3%3EThe+Year+2000 In the next few days on Mises.org, we'll feature an article on the Euro and coverage of the continuing debate between Robert Bork (taking the statist position) and Michael Kinsley (taking the free-market position) on Microsoft's future. It may seem like a strange turnabout, but even stranger things have happened this month, in addition to the political turmoil in the Belly of the Beast: the Mises Institute and the Village Voice agreed�that the U.S. government should not be destroying people and property in Iraq. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From pooh at efga.org Tue Dec 29 18:54:57 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:54:57 +0800 Subject: [EFGA] DragonCon.net Receives Subpoena for User Records Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981229212943.041d9718@rboc.net> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:02:48 -0500 To: announce at efga.org From: "Robert A. Costner" Subject: [EFGA] DragonCon.net Receives Subpoena for User Records Sender: owner-announce at efga.org Reply-To: owner-announce at efga.org X-URL: http://www.efga.org DRAGONCON.NET RECEIVES SUBPOENA FOR USER RECORDS This week DragonCon.net, a free email service, received a Subpoena requesting information on one of its users including the true and correct legal name, IP addresses, E-mail addresses, E-mail headers and postal address The matter has been referred to attorneys to see if the Subpoena is valid and should be complied with. DragonCon.net places a high value on the privacy of it's users and will not release user info based on a casual request. http://www.dragoncon.net is a privacy friendly email forwarding and newsgroup posting service using technology developed by Electronic Frontiers Georgia (EFGA) . EFGA is known for it's leadership in the worldwide anonymous remailer community, the Georgia Cracker remailer , and as the original plaintiff in the internet anonymity case ACLU vs. Miller. DragonCon.net has been a way to extend a form of privacy and anonymity to those who wish for some anonymity in communications without the burden of encryption imposed by the Cypherpunk remailer system. Dragon*Con is a science fiction and fantasy convention held each year in Atlanta, Georgia. DragonCon.net is a free email service for members of Dragon*Con which also allows anyone else to have an email account. DragonCon.net, the email service, is operated independently of Dragon*Con by a third party company. Says Chairman Ed Kramer of Dragon*Con, "Dragoncon.net is run by an independent company; we have no control over their policies. However, we certainly respect the privacy of our members and support the pro-privacy polices of the internet service towards their users. We've been told that attorneys are reviewing irregularities in the subpoena, and the internet service may be forced to not honor it." The matter is a civil action against a group of email-name defendants, none of which appear to be the Dragoncon.net user. Dragoncon.net is not a party in the suit. We do not yet know the nature of the civil action. More information will be announced in a few days. For more information contact Robert A. Costner pooh at efga.org 770 402-3580 * To join or be removed from this list, send a message to majordomo at efga.org with the message body of SUBSCRIBE announce or UNSUBSCRIBE announce From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 29 19:21:22 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:21:22 +0800 Subject: Fwd: trigger locks on public weapons Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:23:38 -0800 To: rah at shipwright.com From: Vinnie Moscaritolo Subject: Fwd: trigger locks on public weapons > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:22:51 -0800 > To: staff at goal.org > From: Vinnie Moscaritolo > Subject: trigger locks on public weapons > Cc: > Bcc: > X-Attachments: > > congratulations on your move to force the MA legislators to eat their > dogfood by placing trigger locks on the Besses in the state house.. I am > an ex resident of the People's Democratik Socialist Commonwealth of > Massachusetts and was recently visiting the Rude bridge in Concord, > showing my wife the very place where America started. I happened to > visit the museum at the bridge and noticed that that there were three > functional Brown Besses in display, and non of them were properly locked. > I was appalled to see this, after all this is a place where many visitors > come to see where freedom started, where the Colonists stood against the > king who only wished to protect them by confiscating their guns.. and to > find that the weapons displayed there were did not comply with the law of > the day quite dismayed me.. but I thought that if I informed the folks at > GOAL you might be able to contact the propler authorities and set things > straight.. > > good luck my brothers.. Vinnie Moscaritolo http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042 ------------------------------------------------------- Those who hammer their swords into plows, will plow for those who don't." --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Dec 29 19:35:38 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:35:38 +0800 Subject: Triple DES "standard"? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:11:37 -0500 To: jehill at nexis.org From: Vin McLellan Subject: Re: Triple DES "standard"? Cc: Rodney Thayer , Cryptography at C2.net Sender: owner-coderpunks at toad.com Rodney Thayer reported: >> Curiously enough, there seem to be no references to a standard before >> the X9.52 effort, which appears to be only a year or two old. NIST calls >> Triple DES a "private" standard. Josh Hill responded variously: >? >Before things become standards, they are just good ideas. Triple DES is >widely used, despite the fact that there is no absolute standard. The >draft standard, itself, is actually quite straight forward... Nothing >really interesting about it, aside from ANSI's blessing. >NIST does the "we'll just refer to another standard and call it ours" >thing a fair bit... Look at FIPS 186-1: The RSA signature scheme accepted >is the one specified in ANSI X9.31. Actually, as I recall the tale, the Amercian Bankers Association-sponsored ANSI-accredited X.9 Committee's blessing of DES3 was itself pretty interesting. I understood that the NSA lobbied bitterly against the X9 effort to standardize 3DES as an ANSI standard, insisting that DES would surfice until its successor was chosen. A couple years ago, when the X9 committee -- or maybe one of the X9 crypto subcommittees -- rejected that advice and initially recommended that 3DES be made a standard, I was told that the NSA rep angrily declared that 3DES would _never_ get an export license and would never be shipped overseas. (Which may have put a damper on the 3DES standardization effort;-) Unfortunately, these standards development efforts usually escape the media's attention. Anyone on the list active in X9 and can give us the real story? Since the birth of X9 in the late 70s, the US National Security Agency has its own representative on the X9 Committee. As one might expect, the NSA has traditionally had significant influence over the ANSI "F" (crypto) subcommittees and cryptographic standards in financial services. There was a time when Ft. Meade effectively dictated those standards. Now, that is not necessarily so.... (After the NSA blundered so badly in trying to force the Banking industry to switch from DES to CCEP/Clipper in the late 80s, the Agency's mesmerizing control broken. The initial intro of CCEP/Clipper -- at an ABA meeting -- proposed that only US owned institutions could have access to Clipper. At the time, as I recall, maybe 10-15 percent of the US banks were foreign owned;-) The bankers couldn't believe that these idiots -- obviously so ignorant about the workings of the industry they were trying to defacto regulate -- were from the NSA of Legend and Lore.) I always felt that the NSA's alienation of the Bankers was probably the single most important factor in the collapse of the government's Cipper campaign. Suerte, _Vin ----- Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 -- <@><@> -- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From bc192 at freenet.carleton.ca Tue Dec 29 20:52:08 1998 From: bc192 at freenet.carleton.ca (Chris Rowley) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:52:08 +0800 Subject: PWL files Message-ID: <199812300430.XAA12372@freenet3.carleton.ca> > > I've been trying to figure out the method of encryption for OSR2 Win95 and > > Win98 *.pwl files and I was hoping someone had some details about the > > method used. [...] Does anyone have it figured out? > > I think Peter Gutmann and someone else figured it out sometime ago. Peter Gutmann figured out the old system. In reaction the system was changed by the OSR2 patch and in all further releases of Windows. What exactly it was changed to is the question. Chris. From Death46760 at aol.com Tue Dec 29 20:54:49 1998 From: Death46760 at aol.com (Death46760 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:54:49 +0800 Subject: !! Wanted Home Product Assemblers !! Message-ID: *****This is a one time Mailing. You will not receive mail from us again.***** Looking for Home Product Assemblers!! How would you like to Assemble Products at Home & get Paid! Choose your own Hours! Be your own Boss! Easy Work! Excellent Pay! Earn Hundreds of Dollars Weekly! Here are just a few examples of the work you will have to choose from: Wooden Products - up to $220.00 Weekly! Hair Accessories - up to $320.00 Weekly! Holiday Crafts - up to $270.00 Weekly! Beaded Accessories - up to $350.00 Weekly! ........Plus many others. There are over 75 Companies to choose from! Why not enjoy the Benefits and Freedom of Home Assembly Work! To find out more Call.....Toll Free (24 Hour Recording) 1-888-289-9708. U.S. Publishing Co. P.O. Box 633 Rocky Mount NC 27802 Name ___________________________________________ Address ___________________________________________ City & State ___________________________________________ From tv at wlwonline.de Wed Dec 30 00:21:07 1998 From: tv at wlwonline.de (Tom Vogt) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:21:07 +0800 Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3689D9AF.E0F1ABCE@wlwonline.de> Reeza! wrote: > Sorry, yes I am up-playing, for the sake of humor. No, I'm not a > consultant, Yes I desire to earn money, and the real problem (as I see it) > isn't with the hardware or software, it is with what people will do. > Regardless of anything relevant or irrelevant, what the sheeple think can > happen, what they see happen, what really does happen and how some of them > will over-react to it. aside from the humor (which I agree on) you might be right. someone said not too long ago that the real y2k problem is in the people's mind. test yourself: born in the summer of '68, the 70s, sign with name and date: 28.12.98 . people THINK two numbers, which might be the real reason so much software is written using two bytes. From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 30 01:07:51 1998 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:07:51 +0800 Subject: cookie sniffers? In-Reply-To: <36894498.7418B40@netcomuk.co.uk> Message-ID: <19981230083901.A12430@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 02:57:12PM -0700, X wrote: > While you register for a hotmail acct., do they sniff around to see who you > really are? I don't know what you mean > Or is it anon? well it gives the IP address you connect from in the header... and my guess is that most anon proxies are banned (?) -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. -- mark twain From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 30 02:11:12 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:11:12 +0800 Subject: distribution scheme Message-ID: <199812300946.KAA29026@replay.com> forget my earlier mail saying I had uploaded to funet.fi - seems I get "permission denied" from both there and csua.berkeley.edu even in the incoming dirs. am I missing something here? please tell me where I can upload. Falcon From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Dec 30 03:20:49 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:20:49 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole) In-Reply-To: <199812101815.TAA120782@public.uni-hamburg.de> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981230011725.00a4b940@idiom.com> Unfortunately, since Wassenaar is not the law, only an agreement by bureaucrats to make laws or regulations sort of like it if they can talk their pet legislatures into rubberstamping them, this doesn't help. You can't take a bureaucrat to court and insist that she rescind a regulation that was stronger than the Minimum Daily Repression specified in the "Arrangement" - you can only insist on whatever your nation's constitution (if any) or fundamental rights document (if any) specifies, or perhaps go to the World Court or some European Union or European Community court and argue the case there. But most of these rights documents say things like "except for national security" and aren't very enforceable even if they do plainly state that your rights are stronger than that. >Ulf M�ller wrote the following about mistakes in Wassenaar: >> Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by >> their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on >> asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically >> are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are >> no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement. At 07:06 PM 12/10/98 +0000, Ben Laurie wrote: >Hmm - so if I defined a new crytpo algorithm, SED3, say, that looks likethis: >SED3(k,x)=3DES(backwards(k),x) >where backwards(k) is k with its bits written backwards, then the >3DES/SED3(k1,k2) combination is exportable (where k1 is related to k2, >of course, by k2=backwards(k1))? I assume you mean 3DESDecrypt(backwards(k),x) ? It still doesn't work, because 3DESEncrypt is still symmetric with 3DESDecrypt, and SED3Decrypt is still symmetric with 3DESEncrypt(backwards(k),x). But you could still come up with something that meets the letter of the non-law, just for the fun of tweaking them. I think it's more realistic to go for the various General Software Exemptions and Public Domain Exemptions, and generally lobby legislatures to slow down on implementing Bad Things, and let them see there's money to be made for their countries' local businesses by not cooperating. A potentially valuable change to go for would be to allow export between members of the Wassenaar, or the EC, or whatever. After all, the whole purpose of the COCOM that Wassenaar grew out of was to keep Commies from getting militarily valuable technology, and now that there aren't any Commies (unless you count the Chinese or Cubans) and they've let the Russians into Wassenaar, the whole thing's prima facie stupid anyway. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From nobody at replay.com Wed Dec 30 05:48:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:48:03 +0800 Subject: distribution scheme Message-ID: <199812301314.OAA10146@replay.com> I'm sorry, but it seems I have missed the original mail, i.e. the first quote here. if there is anything important in it that was not quoted, please include it somewhere in your replies. I hope I haven't missed any other mail. >>Falcon, aka FitugMix, wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or other >>contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each byte in >>stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's not >>really >>encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be hard to read. >this concept is virtually identical to fractal encryption, where a >message is chopped into its component parts (25 a's, 3 b's, 8 c's, and so >on) and also chopped into a configuration scheme. this form of >encryption does fall under the definition of munitions by the u.s. >government... yes, I found that out in the meantime. the legal aspect falls short of my expectations. I still consider the scheme to be both simple and useful because it actually changes the byte structure, so looking for 'a' or 'e' or similiar pattern-analysis does not work anymore. in combination with steganography, I believe this can make things really hard to find, but I'm willing to learn the opposite if someone with more cryptoanalysis know-how tells me. if I'm right, it might still be useful for people, e.g. in china working outside their local laws anyways. it probably needs extension before it's really useful, so I have put up the code on funet.fi (pub/crypto/cypherpunks/incoming). take a look and tell me what you think, please. Falcon From hanne at squirrel.owl.de Wed Dec 30 06:03:15 1998 From: hanne at squirrel.owl.de (Johannes Kroeger) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:03:15 +0800 Subject: FINAL REMINDER: New PGP and Mixmaster keys at squirrel.owl.de Message-ID: <19981230141719.A24646@squirrel.owl.de> New keys at squirrel already in use; old ones expire on January 1, 1999. Key for user ID: Squirrel Remailer (EXPIRE:1999-07-01) 2048-bit key, key ID 912CA289, created 1998/11/25 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3in mQENAzZcErkA2gEIAMQpXNh1i9puYy/XwQIA8UrK+3BIPyCd92GBCqubdsJeEhAV cOCwfk3g0XGBDYiJBSkCqHG06IZMnXU6BVyukcLEUrmJXeyum7Nc6287ZBT92Ebm XCivROmMiOi2ZpdLUf2Na3QbFyUbZDu/vFTL64wJh3pqjP6BokpVoJi6IIGj7AS3 /Hi2iX9+jP80KUYfMZO0lAW3lTwXYtyduRuT8EoV71/+GTu/DNSBylXdR1zZVueH 531jDOysZbK+kqdlBc3U6GZYe405WVY8xbOprojI4nguPLKC19biLu2hJfFIYElX 7wvBBOMrIlUisvvsO1xm7XKdo/69fYC945EsookABRG0O1NxdWlycmVsIFJlbWFp bGVyIDxtaXhAc3F1aXJyZWwub3dsLmRlPiAoRVhQSVJFOjE5OTktMDctMDEpiQEV AgUTNlwUCLwPSJ4oQv5pAQE+iQgAzYGKS1rNcqQLzeKPAIfX0NrPfuHPWww+b9ZF y9d/dTPeR6dmdX4DbVguuYsRAO6rttklsYJRXpRN1CPO4pFGdSZhbfD2aaKQmADX Y3x0Jjf83jZhHo4sgWF6KxzZXNnZgao1Kkk4BNS8uRBy1jc6e/rTMhRrVABu5nt2 /NZEW8RrrRP3gOb1OSypieBKAfShxskLTiV5yi9rm2IRNhrRnadAygFiKjKBWIGy gKQgWuFNltXrMWriMffg5TVe+PjlTVIynkM9gjdQgE/cg56rqHkv/H5I6UsY0fol dYuNuATT+a1fbflqTfdjZYryEJZR3xndrCQk6wJbu8IMq8U1aokBFQMFEzZcE3oe XusFsYA8HQEBMYMIAJW3NETaKOaj3HA+mzHtmKf5GybI5yBBQ++NchMYOVBcJlHU 3euZx0kjgkjdm2SFZIZnjaLqYS7Nk4IJYMcvsGBrEtk7TFtyEZ8uHOQgUN1nbmOv tYr8gO7OyS/XULjz8uCuEvDza2dIBBiWstgxUOoKjMSXrjlMT4MRYPUphZS7Wf5n aNE2Y2cD0ANZIFbB3afc96TNtnO+VKnH2hIPWDogoSVGCO4Y1wqsH+VwiRwoLPcY R5qiWITbK6Ax3JCHv/a27VMiv4uHNDLU+FGq/8ksk9/EclWN2+Ni3qMD1aI/pTtt 3XhHBc8tLgWpW8J7Yy9DNxZmaAArqut4FqjPudKJARUDBRA2XBMRfYC945EsookB AQyuB/9hDivQELGw37CwDIgqmqdF31SpJeuHxhm4/BQg3Gc0Ezn3WaetkheX9p9+ lsEEq36oknIyg8GYgTr3nsRTgJXuwssB0SkiB+x3CkYegsuCgh30xAaxVB3RlIfU ny75Ltxl52p387bJ2sDc3STUQBEAy0HfjlgD98p7IO38D/rw/WWrXTko6rCcnuEx AzJ2Lx9klS0GLq/PxS9wK3V/5VM4rxMEhcnog+lHF1/GpvGnXAtNJztqqgdijjW8 C8qEJRKKh9c5PTCxBfwqLOHxsGCeBaEDzjO/LyCEohYlwZhBlVqN56zS6z0y7yBL AAF5qt39x2jsrKSH9p9fpZO06WuB =Yqyh -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de 3de441b2b721e4853259ae6952a0cfca 2.0.4b43 CNm -----Begin Mix Key----- 3de441b2b721e4853259ae6952a0cfca 258 AATdqb9WxExPliCxZIZ9GZyXCGZZiDa4bwZPSP4S lz7UORYAZu+rjGDinf4lfmPxfZIcF0X1oefLetF4 TxN4dZxmJWqz65NufN7pu4BngA1yGcV5Mn7LqbJh 8kqlGEdUFeb4LJTxhYW1flD1HEfmfE4nuYMQniSb oXLX1rypyH9OiwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB -----End Mix Key----- -- Johannes Kroeger Send mail with subject "send pgp-key" to get my PGP key -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgp00000.pgp Type: application/octet-stream Size: 464 bytes Desc: "PGP signature" URL: From howree at cable.navy.mil Wed Dec 30 06:54:40 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:54:40 +0800 Subject: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole) In-Reply-To: <36701BB5.BB2D78CC@algroup.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981231000855.00991c10@205.83.192.13> Unfortunately, the WA still sucks, flies in the face of common sense, and only makes sense if orwellian, or huxleyan predictions of future societies are being actualized, today. I'm afraid. I'm very afraid,,, Reeza! Be very afraid, Barney has his own movie. Now, tubetubbies not only steal the young'uns minds, but their lives as well,,, At 01:17 AM 12/30/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >Unfortunately, since Wassenaar is not the law, only an agreement >by bureaucrats to make laws or regulations sort of like it if >they can talk their pet legislatures into rubberstamping them, >this doesn't help. > >You can't take a bureaucrat to court and >insist that she rescind a regulation that was stronger than the >Minimum Daily Repression specified in the "Arrangement" - >you can only insist on whatever your nation's constitution (if any) >or fundamental rights document (if any) specifies, >or perhaps go to the World Court or some European Union or >European Community court and argue the case there. >But most of these rights documents say things like >"except for national security" and aren't very enforceable >even if they do plainly state that your rights are stronger than that. > >>Ulf M�ller wrote the following about mistakes in Wassenaar: >>> Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by >>> their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on >>> asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically >>> are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are >>> no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement. > >At 07:06 PM 12/10/98 +0000, Ben Laurie wrote: >>Hmm - so if I defined a new crytpo algorithm, SED3, say, that looks likethis: >>SED3(k,x)=3DES(backwards(k),x) >>where backwards(k) is k with its bits written backwards, then the >>3DES/SED3(k1,k2) combination is exportable (where k1 is related to k2, >>of course, by k2=backwards(k1))? > >I assume you mean 3DESDecrypt(backwards(k),x) ? It still doesn't work, >because 3DESEncrypt is still symmetric with 3DESDecrypt, >and SED3Decrypt is still symmetric with 3DESEncrypt(backwards(k),x). >But you could still come up with something that meets the >letter of the non-law, just for the fun of tweaking them. > >I think it's more realistic to go for the various >General Software Exemptions and Public Domain Exemptions, >and generally lobby legislatures to slow down on implementing Bad Things, >and let them see there's money to be made for their countries' >local businesses by not cooperating. > >A potentially valuable change to go for would be to allow >export between members of the Wassenaar, or the EC, or whatever. >After all, the whole purpose of the COCOM that Wassenaar grew out of >was to keep Commies from getting militarily valuable technology, >and now that there aren't any Commies (unless you count the Chinese or Cubans) >and they've let the Russians into Wassenaar, the whole thing's >prima facie stupid anyway. > > Thanks! > Bill >Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com >PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 > > > From anali at slt.lk Wed Dec 30 07:00:13 1998 From: anali at slt.lk (anali) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:00:13 +0800 Subject: Happy New Year 1999 - Export Trade Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19981230200727.0ff7d542@slt.lk> 30-12-1998. 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GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITION *************************** SHIPMENTS - 20' or 40' FCL'S ONLY. DELIVERY TIME :Received your L/c to our Bank arrange the shipment Further informations ******************** ATLANTIC NAVIGATIONS LINES (PVT) LTD NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD , KOHUWALA , NUGEGODA.COLOMBO. SRI LANKA. TEL: 0094-1-823464 (5 LINES) FAX: 0094-1-823464 E.Mail: anali at slt.lk From anali at slt.lk Wed Dec 30 08:25:37 1998 From: anali at slt.lk (anali) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:25:37 +0800 Subject: Happy New Year 1999 - Export Trade Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19981230213844.2d2fe0fe@slt.lk> 30-12-1998. DEAR SIR, WE ARE ONE OF LEADING EXPORT ORGANIZATION IN SRI LANKA.WE WISH FORWARD OUR EXPORT MARKETS INFORMATINS FOR YOUR REFERENCES.OUR EXPORT COMMDITIES DETAIL GIVEN BELOW: EXPORT COMMODITIES- ******************* 1.FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES. 2.CEYLON BLACK TEA IN BAGS,PACKETS OR BULK. 3.CEYLON HERBAL TEA IN BAGES,PACKETS OR BULK.DETAILS AS FOLLOWS: i.Bevila Tea (Sida Racemosa)Recommended for Reumatic pains/Cooling. ii.Ginger Tea (Zingiber Officinale)Recommended for Stimulant/Carminative. iii.Beli Tea (Aegle Marmelos)Recommended for Chronic Fever/Piles. iv.Ranawara Tea (Cassia Auriculata)Improve complexion in Woman. v.Gotukola Tea (Centella Asiatica)Improve the Memory. vi.Cinnamon Tea (Cinnamomum Zeylanicum)Recommended for Reumatism/Cold. vii.Clove Tea (Eugenia Caryophyllata)Recommended for Cold/Stomachie. viii.Polpala Tea (Aerva Lanata)Recommended for Kidney flushing. ix.Lantana Tea (Phyla Nodiflora)Recommended as Diuretic/Carminative. 4.CEYLON HERBAL PORRIDGE IN CONSUMER PACKETS.(HATHAWARIYA,- GOTUKOLA,WEL-PENELA,MUKUNUWENNA & IRAMUSU). 5.CEYLON HERBAL TEA (BLOOD PURIFYING TEA)- TEPHROSIA PURPUREA,TINOSPORA CORDIFOLIA,PHYLLANTHUS EMBLICA,- EVOLVULUS ALSINOIDES & CASSIA AURICULATA. 6.CEYOLN HERBAL TEA (SLIMMING TEA)-GYRINOPS WALLA,- BAUHINIA VARIEGATE,ATALANTIA MISSIONIS,MINOSA PUDICA- & CALOTROPIS GIGANTEA. 7.SPICES (BLACK PEPPER,CARDAMONS,CLOVES,GINGER,MACE,NUTMEG TUMERIC AND CINNAMON). 8.FRESH COCONUTS AND DESICCATED COCONUT. 9.FIBER(COIR PRODUCTS)-FIBER MOSSTICK,HUSK CHIPS,COMPRESSED COCOHUSK,DUST,PEAT. 10.SEA FOODS.DETAILS FOLLOWS: i.Fish -Frozen/Chilled ii.Shrimp. iii.Black Tiger Farm Prawns. iv.Giant Tiger Prawns. v.Cattle fish. vi.Octopus. vii.Live Prawns. vii.Lobster (Live or Frozen) Processing and Packing can be arranged to suite your requirements.All shipments by Air and Carry Sri Lanka Government Health Certificate of Origin. 11.RICE AND DHAL (RED LENTILS ). 12.NARURAL RUBBER. 13.SUGER. 14.INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME CIGARETTES. 15.INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME BEER AND NON ALCOHOLIC BEER AND LIQUOR. 16.ALL INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME PERFUMES. 17.CRUDE OIL,PETROLEUM BY - PRODUCTS. 18.MEAT PRODUCTS-CHICKEN/BEEF/PORK WE ARE THANKING YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR EARLY ATTENTION IN THIS REGARD. BEST REGARDS, LIONES ENTERPRISES NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD,KOHUWALA, P.O.BOX-77 ,NUGEGODA, SRI LANKA. TEL :0094 1 823464 (5 Lines) FAX :0094 1 823464 E.MAIL:anali at slt.lk **************************** We are following brand name Cigarettese and Beer manufacturer's Agent. Details as follows: CIGARETTES - ALL PRICES IN F.O.B.COLOMBO/SRI LANKA (USD.) ********************************************************** ONE (01)CASE CONTAIN 10,000 STICKS ********************************** 1/MARLBORO - LIGHT/REGULER Origin:U.S.A. 2/MILD SEVEN -HARD PACK Origin:U.K. AND SWITZERLAND 3/DAVIDOFF -CLASSIC Origin:GERMANY 4/SUPER KING Origin:U.K. 5.REGAL KING SIZE Origin:U.K. 6.TEDLAPIDUS Origin:U.K. 7/ROTHMANS Origin:U.K. 8/DUNHILL Origin:U.K. 9/555 -REGULER/LIGHT Origin:U.K. 10/555 -INTERNATIONAL Origin:U.K. 11.Camel,Winston,Salem and More Brand Cigarettes we can supply at the rate of USD.315.00 QUANTITY: 1 MASTER CASE = 10.000 Cigs 1 x 20' Container = 430 Master cases 1 x 40' Container = 920 Master cases SHIPMENTS - 20' AND 40' FCL'S ONLY. ************************* BEERS ***** 1.BARON'S BEER (MADE IN HOLLAND) ******************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 2.MASTER BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND) ****************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 3.HOLLANDIA BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND) ********************************* Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 4.BAVARIA BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND) ******************************* Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2261 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 5.ORANJEBOOM PREMIIM BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND) ****************************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 6.REMBRANDT MASTERPIECR LAGER BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND) *************************************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 7.MELCHERS PREMIUM EXPORT PILSENER(MADE IN HOLLAND) *************************************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 8.VAN DELFT PREMIUM EXPORT PILSENER(MADE IN HOLLAND) **************************************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. 9.HEINEKEN (GREEN LABEL)MADE IN HOLLAND *************************************** Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray 2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL Quality :5% Vol.Alc. GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITION *************************** SHIPMENTS - 20' or 40' FCL'S ONLY. DELIVERY TIME :Received your L/c to our Bank arrange the shipment Further informations ******************** ATLANTIC NAVIGATIONS LINES (PVT) LTD NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD , KOHUWALA , NUGEGODA.COLOMBO. SRI LANKA. TEL: 0094-1-823464 (5 LINES) FAX: 0094-1-823464 E.Mail: anali at slt.lk From rah at shipwright.com Wed Dec 30 08:35:03 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:35:03 +0800 Subject: Triple DES "standard"? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Reply-To: From: "Rich Ankney" To: , "Digital Bearer Settlement List" , "Robert Hettinga" Subject: Re: Triple DES "standard"? Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:38 -0500 Sender: List-Subscribe: > Actually, as I recall the tale, the Amercian Bankers > Association-sponsored ANSI-accredited X.9 Committee's blessing of DES3 was > itself pretty interesting. > > I understood that the NSA lobbied bitterly against the X9 effort to > standardize 3DES as an ANSI standard, insisting that DES would surfice > until its successor was chosen. > > A couple years ago, when the X9 committee -- or maybe one of the X9 > crypto subcommittees -- rejected that advice and initially recommended that > 3DES be made a standard, I was told that the NSA rep angrily declared that > 3DES would _never_ get an export license and would never be shipped > overseas. (Which may have put a damper on the 3DES standardization > effort;-) > > Unfortunately, these standards development efforts usually escape > the media's attention. Anyone on the list active in X9 and can give us the > real story? > I was at the meeting. This was a meeting of (I think) X9F3, which is a working group in X9F, which has several working groups doing security. 3DES was being pushed really hard by the Fed. The vote was to get a sense of how much interest there was in a 3DES standard. (There is no requirement to have such a vote to work on something; the X9 rules require a new work item ballot sent to all X9 members.) The NO votes were, IIRC, from NSA (with the above quote, more or less), IRS, and IRE (a commercial outfit located in Baltimore). NIST abstained. I don't recall the official X9 vote, but it was along the same lines. The work was done in a different working group, X9F1, chaired by the legendary Blake Greenlee. The standard was published a few months ago. Again, the Fed pushed really hard on this; kudos to them. I'm sure Cindy Fuller of the X9 Secretariat (cfuller at aba.com) would have the official X9 ballot results if anyone is interested... > Since the birth of X9 in the late 70s, the US National Security > Agency has its own representative on the X9 Committee. As one might > expect, the NSA has traditionally had significant influence over the ANSI > "F" (crypto) subcommittees and cryptographic standards in financial > services. There was a time when Ft. Meade effectively dictated those > standards. Now, that is not necessarily so.... > > (After the NSA blundered so badly in trying to force the Banking > industry to switch from DES to CCEP/Clipper in the late 80s, the Agency's > mesmerizing control broken. The initial intro of CCEP/Clipper -- at an ABA > meeting -- proposed that only US owned institutions could have access to > Clipper. At the time, as I recall, maybe 10-15 percent of the US banks > were foreign owned;-) The bankers couldn't believe that these idiots -- > obviously so ignorant about the workings of the industry they were trying > to defacto regulate -- were from the NSA of Legend and Lore.) > I didn't start attending meetings till the early '90's, but I can certainly testify that Clipper/Fortezza were pushed really hard. In fact, X9F1 may still have open work items on some of this stuff (no work going on, but it needs a formal vote to remove it from the list). My major objection was the attempt to standardize on a particular *product*, which used classified algorithms, vs. standardizing on a public algorithm which could be implemented in H/W or S/W. So X9 ended up with: 3DES instead of Skipjack; DSA and RSA (and ECDSA real soon now) for signatures; and DH, RSA, and EC (real soon now) for key management. It's interesting that our DH standard seems to have reinvented much of the interesting stuff in KEA. Regards, Rich --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Dec 30 09:16:17 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:16:17 +0800 Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 Message-ID: <368A5A98.B0E@lsil.com> >> Jefferson and Madison were fearful, as more Americans should >> be today, of allowing power to be concentrated in the central >> government. > >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization. > >A better way to word this is that we should be afraid of the federal >government becoming the central government. > The ENTIRE point? ONE of the points was to define and limit the extents of centralization. There is no cure for the chronic tendency of people in power to try and increase their scope. The repeated application of palliatives is the only way to deal with that social disease. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 30 09:17:39 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:17:39 +0800 Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd) Message-ID: <199812301657.KAA05177@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:44 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 > >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization. > > > >A better way to word this is that we should be afraid of the federal > >government becoming the central government. > > > The ENTIRE point? The ENTIRE point. > ONE of the points was to define and limit the extents of centralization. No, the point of a democratic government is to eliminate centralization of authority. To distribute and limit what each level can do from the top to the bottem. Read the 9th and 10th again. > There is no cure for the chronic tendency of people in power to try and > increase their scope. The repeated application of palliatives is the > only way to deal with that social disease. If you truly believe this then you should shoot yourself now and get it over with. There is a cure, that cure is to recognize the behaviour in people and build systems that limit the opportunity to express it. The best plan we've come up with so far is constitutional democracy. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mark at zor.hut.fi Wed Dec 30 10:27:34 1998 From: mark at zor.hut.fi (Mark 13) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:27:34 +0800 Subject: Crackers Set Sights on Iraq Message-ID: Geniuses at work: http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/politics/story/17074.html?wnpg=all > "It's a crime in itself to build weapons of mass destruction when the > children of the country are starving," said a group member who goes by > the name "kInGbOnG." And do they hope to kill Saddam, or help in NOT starving the nation? No, they plan to attack the government information systems used to rationing and planning deliveries of the food! > Though the systems' geographic origin could not be positively confirmed, > login prompts contained phonetic spellings of Arabic words. And to top it off, they're not even sure which country they are attacking! They can't possibly hit any military targets with this attack! And they hope to further the human rights with this attack? God save us from this kind of stupidity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/politics/story/17074.html?wnpg=all Crackers Set Sights on Iraq by James Glave 3:00 a.m. 30.Dec.98.PST A global group of 24 hackers and crackers spent Monday night probing, mapping, and preparing to attack computer networks owned by the government of Iraq. Quoting at one point from the Declaration of Independence, Steve Stakton, a member of the seven-year-old Legions of the Underground group, called for a concerted one-week cracking campaign against Iraq. "Iraq has treated human rights issues as poorly as China has," said Stakton in a meeting of the group that was held Monday night on Internet Relay Chat. "We need to carry out what the government won't, and can't, do." Stakton, 24, quoted from the group's mission statement: "We are ready to commence, and take [part] in electronic warfare if requested." Iraq has no connection to the public Internet, though Iraq Net, an official government homepage, is based in New York. Group members claim to be targeting an older, nonpublic network inside Iraqi borders that they say runs on a vintage protocol called X.25. "We are targeting them via terminal dialup," said Stakton in an interview conducted with group members on Tuesday over IRC, a global text-based chat network where identities can easily be forged. Group members said they were probing sequential network numbers within an older network owned by MCI, which they believed were assigned to Iraq. They described the system as "a gateway that handles systems that have no local chain of numbers." "It would effectively isolate them from the world if we took out the X.25," added a 19-year-old member based in Minnesota who goes by the name "lothos." "If we wanted we'd be able to dial up and make a huge amount of connection to their systems and possibly bring it down to its knees," Stakton said. One member said that he was analyzing network scans from the Iraqi cities of Ar Rutbah and Al Kut. Scott Ellentuch, a network security specialist with Internet consultancy TTSG, said X.25 networks are commonly used to connect older equipment. Iraq hasn't received any computers or computer supplies since the United Nations embargo was put in place at the time of the Gulf War. "If they do have an X.25 connection into Iraq, and that is their only network capability, someone could hop off the Internet and hop on to the X.25 and ride into the X.25 network," said Ellentuch. The group said its efforts partly involved "wardialing," a process of automatically dialing one phone number after another looking for modems. Members said that many modems answered at 2400 bps -- a speed common in the late 1980s. "Many other countries don't have ... technology as [advanced as] the United States," said Ellentuch. "The exploits that are possible on these machines have been around for ages." A member of the group supplied Wired News with a log of attempted connections to various institutional computer systems and bulletin board systems. Though the systems' geographic origin could not be positively confirmed, login prompts contained phonetic spellings of Arabic words. Stakton said that Legions' scanning efforts would continue Monday night, but declined to say when the group hoped to launch its attack. The Legions said that the attack was a legitimate act of protest against a rogue dictator. "It's a crime in itself to build weapons of mass destruction when the children of the country are starving," said a group member who goes by the name "kInGbOnG." In recent months, Legions of the Underground, whose members are largely in their 20s, has launched numerous attacks against China to draw attention to that nation's human-rights record. Last July, in a demonstration of their technical abilities, members claimed to have remotely moved a satellite dish owned by Time Warner Cablevision. The company confirmed a security breach in that incident. From kfringe at exit109.com Wed Dec 30 10:45:09 1998 From: kfringe at exit109.com (Malachi Kenney) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:45:09 +0800 Subject: Roast pesky car theives with a flame thrower! In-Reply-To: <368166A6.D950FE25@brainlink.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Sunder wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/ > > Don't you wish these were legal in the USA? :) They are. Just don't get caught with one. From jim.burnes at ssds.com Wed Dec 30 11:03:50 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:03:50 +0800 Subject: limitations of fed power (was CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199812301657.KAA05177@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:44 -0800 > > From: Michael Motyka > > Subject: Re: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 > > > >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization. > > > That would be a valid point if we were living in that arrangement. I like to be a little more specifc. We are living in a democratically elected reprentative constitutional republic. The point of that constitution is to shackle the tendancy of a bureaucracy from assuming authority over matters never assigned to it and using its enforcement powers to assure it. Eventually the people, wallowing in ignorance, forget the infraction and the bureacracy assumes de facto control. More eloquently stated: "Our Constitution has accordingly fixed the limits to which, and no further, our confidence may go... In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:388 jim From jya at pipeline.com Wed Dec 30 11:05:33 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:05:33 +0800 Subject: New Crypto Regs Message-ID: <199812301835.NAA26972@smtp3.mindspring.com> Thanks to Ed Roback, NIST: BXA issued a press release today on new crypto regulations: http://www.bxa.doc.gov/press/98/1230encryption.html (copy below) The regs themselves are available today only in hardcopy in Washington DC on display at the Federal Register, but the electronic version will be published in the Federal Register tomorrow and will be on the BXA Web site . Anybody in DC who could get a copy of the hardcopy and fax it to us, it would be appreciated: Fax: (212) 799-4003 Vox: (212) 873-8700 ---------- Commerce Updates Export Controls on Encryption Products (Washington, D.C.) The Commerce Department will publish new regulations significantly streamlining government export controls on powerful encryption -- products that scramble computer data -- as part of the Clinton Administration initiatives to make government more efficient and enhance the global competitiveness of U.S. businesses. These amendments to the Export Administration Regulations, on public notice today at the Federal Register, end the need for licenses for powerful U.S. encryption products to companies worldwide in several important industry sectors after a one time review by the Commerce Department. The regulations implement the policy changes announced by Vice President Gore in September. "Through the hard work of industry and government officials to finalize this regulation, U.S. encryption firms will be better able to compete effectively with encryption manufacturers around the world," said William A. Reinsch, Commerce Under Secretary for Export Administration. Virtually eliminated are restrictions on selling powerful computer data scrambling products to subsidiaries of U.S. corporations. There will also be favorable licensing treatment to strategic partners of U.S. companies. Strong U.S.-made encryption products are now available, under license exception, to insurance companies headquartered in 46 countries and their branches worldwide. Sales of powerful encryption to health and medical organizations in the same countries are also eased. To facilitate secure electronic transactions, between on-line merchants in those same countries, and their customers, the updated regulations permit, under a license exception, the export of client-server applications (e.g. SSL) and applications tailored to on-line transactions to on-line merchants. A list of eligible countries is posted on the BXA web-site. Further easing government restrictions are new allowances for U.S. encryption manufacturers to share their source code with their own foreign subsidiaries (while requiring that any resulting new products remain subject to U.S. regulation ) and streamlining reporting requirements for U.S. firms so that compliance is less burdensome. The new regulations expand the policy of encouraging the use of recoverable encryption by removing the requirement to name and approve key recovery agents for exports of key recovery products from regulations. It also defines a new class of "recoverable" encryption products which can now be exported under Export Licensing Arrangements to foreign commercial firms for internal company proprietary use. As part of its stated goal to balance the needs of national security and public safety with the desire to protect personal privacy and strong electronic commercial security, the Administration continues to encourage the development and sale of products which enable the recovery of the unscrambled data, in an emergency situation. Finally, the regulations eliminate the need to obtain licenses for most encryption commodities and software up to 56-bits or equivalent strength. [End] From jim.burnes at ssds.com Wed Dec 30 11:20:38 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:20:38 +0800 Subject: National Know Your Bank Day Message-ID: In the interest of National Know Your Bank Day, for what its worth, I'd like to address the issue of perpetual public debt that the Federal Reserve System and our esteemed Congress has foisted on us. Here is a wonderful and powerful quote from Mr Jefferson. "To preserve [the] independence [of the people,] we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses, and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:39 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Dec 30 11:34:31 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:34:31 +0800 Subject: limitations of fed power (was CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd)) (fwd) Message-ID: <199812301902.NAA05632@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:46:39 -0700 (MST) > From: Jim Burnes - Denver > Subject: limitations of fed power (was CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd)) > > > >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization. > > > > > > That would be a valid point if we were living in that arrangement. I > like to be a little more specifc. We are living in a democratically elected > reprentative constitutional republic. A representative democracy is still a democracy. The ONLY guarantee of limits in ANY democracy is whether it is constitutional or not. That is the defining issue because that is what limits and defines the governmental structures. The defining issue is not whether it is representative or direct but rather that it has a constitution. A constitution and a bill of rights are in no way a requirement for a democracy (representative or direct). That constitution is what prevents mob-rule. > The point of that constitution is to shackle the tendancy of > a bureaucracy from assuming authority over matters never > assigned to it and using its enforcement powers to assure it. Which is the point under discussion after all. > Eventually the people, wallowing in ignorance, forget the > infraction and the bureacracy assumes de facto control. That is a function of human psychology and not democracy. Blaiming democracy for a function of human behaviour is more than a little misleading. People are social animals. It's gotten us this far and there is no reason to expect a radical shift in human population dynamics in the near term. Really a moot point. It is also the reason the constitution splits authorities, per the 9th and 10th, as it does. The fundamental aspect of a working democracy is conflict, not cooperation as much of todays spin doctor press would have you believe. And by conflict I don't mean spilled blood in the streets. What is really amazing about it is that we have the intelligence to recognize and deal with the trait at all. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxinux at openpgp.net Wed Dec 30 12:02:43 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:02:43 +0800 Subject: [ISN] Academic Attacks on SAFER+ (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: [ISN] Academic Attacks on SAFER+ Forwarded From: "Jay D. Dyson" Originally From: John Kelsey I believe I have found two attacks on the SAFER+ version with 256-bit keys. While these attacks aren't practical, they demonstrate a weakness in the SAFER+ key schedule design, and may lead to more practical attacks in the future. The first attack is a modified meet-in-the-middle attack, requiring 2 known plaintexts and their corresponding ciphertexts, 2^{37} bytes of memory, and work equivalent to about 2^{241} SAFER+ encryptions. I have discussed this attack with Massey, and am fairly confident it really works. The second attack is a related-key attack, requiring 256 chosen plaintexts and their corresponding plaintexts encrypted under two related keys, and work equivalent to about 2^{216} SAFER+ encryptions. This is a much newer attack (about two days old), and I am less certain of it, but I believe it works. I will be writing these attacks up for publication fairly soon, but I wanted to announce them here to get the word out, and to see if anyone can either improve on them or find problems with them. Both attacks exploit two useful properties of SAFER+. First, I will describe the two useful properties, then I will describe the two attacks very briefly. The rest of this note assumes familiarity with SAFER+. 1.0. The Two Useful Properties of SAFER+ Consider SAFER+ with a 256-bit key. The key schedule is quite simple: We extend the key by a parity byte, getting a 33 byte extended key. We then use the 33 byte extended key to generate the entire sequence of subkeys. Each subkey byte is determined by only one key byte. If you know a given key byte, you know all the subkey bytes it determines; if you know a subkey byte, you know the key byte from which it was derived. SAFER+ rounds use 32 bytes of subkey each, in two blocks of 16 bytes. If the key bytes are k[0..32], then we have First Round: k[0..15] k[1..16] Second Round: k[2..17] k[3..18] Third Round: k[4..19] k[5..20] etc. This means that it takes quite a while in the encryption process for the last couple key bytes to affect the encryption. SAFER+ with a 256 bit key has 16 rounds and an output transformation. The output transformation uses only sixteen key bytes. Now, consider how many key bytes have affected the encryption at all after each round: After the first round (round 0), 17 key bytes have been used. After the second round, 19 key bytes have been used. After the third, 21. Continuing, we can see that it takes 9 (out of 16) rounds before SAFER+ has used all 32 key bytes. This allows both of my attacks. 0 17 1 19 2 21 3 23 4 25 5 27 6 29 7 31 8 all The other useful property is that we don't have to know all the key bytes to be able to recognize an output from a round of SAFER+ as being correct. Consider the situation where we know all but the last byte of the key of some round, and we know its input block. Each SAFER+ round consists of the keyed byte substitution layer, and the mixing layer. If we know k[0..14], but not k[15..16], then we end up knowing all but two bytes of the input into the mixing layer. The result is that we end up knowing *none* of the bytes of the output. However, we still know relationships between the bytes of the output. The matrix that describes the mixing layer makes it easy to see how to combine the output bytes into values that are not dependent on the unknown bytes of input. Now, consider a situation where we know all but the last two key bytes for round 0, and all but the first two key bytes for round 1. We can go backward through the mixing layer of round 1 (it's unkeyed), and then go back through the keyed byte substitution layer, learning all but two bytes of the output from round 0. We then make use of the trick described above. We will know relationships between the remaining known bytes of output from round 0, regardless of the unknown key bytes. 2.0. The Meet-in-the-Middle Attack The real insight that makes the low-memory attack work is that we can do meet-in-the-middle with two rounds whose key material we don't know all of. That is, we guess the keys for rounds 1-7 (numbering from one), which gives us all but two of the bytes for round 8. That's 29 key bytes guessed. We then compute some expressions in the output bytes of round 8 that don't rely on knowing the two unknown bytes of key, and that don't rely on knowing the two bytes of round 8's output that will depend on the two unknown key bytes when doing the guess on the other side. We guess the keys for the output transformation (16 bytes), plus the keys for rounds 10-16. That means 30 bytes of key guessed, and it also gives us enough information to get knowledge of all but two bytes of the output of round 8. We then compute those same expressions in those bytes. The result is that we can do the meet-in-the-middle at the output from round 8, despite not knowing all the key bytes used in round 8 or 9. Round | Key Bytes Guessed 1 17 2 19 3 21 4 23 5 25 6 27 7 29 8 29 (two unknown key bytes) - - -------------- (this is where the meet-in-the-middle happens) 9 30 (two unknown key bytes) 10 30 11 28 12 26 13 24 14 22 15 20 16 18 OX 16 That is, we can compute a set of bytes that are dependent only on the 29 bytes of key guessed from the top, or the 30 guessed from the bottom. Now, this would seem to take up a lot of memory to do this meet-in-the-middle attack. Fortunately, however, most of the key bytes guessed from the top are also guessed from the bottom. We thus mount the attack by first guessing all key values in common from the top and the bottom. We then do the meet-in-the-middle by trying all possible 2^{24} values from one side, and all possible 2^{32} values from the other. We compute this intermediate value that doesn't need any other key material from both sides, store our results in a sorted list, and look for duplicates from the top and bottom. With two plaintexts, it's easy to get more than 32 bytes of intermediate values, meaning that we don't expect to see any matches from incorrect guesses. 3.0. The Related-Key Attack The related-key attack works on a similar principle. My current attack is very simple: We choose a pair of keys, K,K^*, such that the keys differ only in the first two bytes; in these two bytes, we have a difference of 0x80. Under K we encrypt 256 plaintexts, P[i], each identical except with a different leftmost byte. Under K^* we encrypt 256 plaintexts, P[i]^*, with some fixed difference D<>0x80 from P[i] in the leftmost byte, and with fixed difference 0x80 in the next byte over. With probability about 1/2, we get at least one pair of plaintexts P[i],P[i]^*, whose values after two rounds are identical under the different keys. When this happens, their values are also identical after nine rounds. Now, we do our trick from the meet-in-the-middle attack, again, and guess the last 26 bytes of relevant key material. This lets us peel off the output transformation and the last five rounds, leaving us with access to the output from the eleventh round. We can peel off the PHT layer, since we know it and its inverse. We can then learn all but two of the bytes input to the eleventh round. We now know all but two bytes of the output from the tenth round, and we know a pair of texts for which only the last two bytes of the input to the tenth tound had changed. We can check to see if the values we've computed as being the outputs from the tenth round are consistent with this situation, and thus are consistent with this being a right pair. We expect to have to check 256 different pairs of texts in this way, each with work equivalent to 2^{208} SAFER+ encryptions. This leaves us with work equivalent to about 2^{216} encryptions, total, to learn 208/256 of the SAFER+ key bits. The remaining 48 bits can be brute-forced after these are known. We thus break SAFER+ with a differential related-key attack, using 2 related keys, 512 plaintexts encrypted under each key, and 2^{216} work. Comments? - - --John Kelsey, kelsey at counterpane.com / kelsey at plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -o- Subscribe: mail majordomo at repsec.com with "subscribe isn". Today's ISN Sponsor: Internet Security Institute [www.isi-sec.com] From qiy68 at leica.com.au Thu Dec 31 04:48:47 1998 From: qiy68 at leica.com.au (wghtlost) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:48:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: 'Tis the day after Christmas And something's not right Message-ID: <19981231190EAA12275@vertuoks.snioe.on.ca> 'Tis the day after Christmas And something's not right Were painfully aware That our clothes are too tight. We ate lots of gravy And pumpkin pie too Oh, no, not a diet... But what shall we do? Now you can lose weight without suffering. 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Free price list upon request. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Removal from lists, please go to http://209.216.69.189/remove/ #2167659jdfv94894hde nqr is Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/30/vpncops.idg/ > A HIGH-TECH WAR ON DRUGS > > Mobile VPNs are key to law enforcement alliance in Southern states > > > > December 30, 1998 > Web posted at: 3:05 PM EST > > by L. Scott Tillett From... > Civic.com > > (IDG) -- Counternarcotics units in four Southern states soon will > begin piloting a new technology that allows law enforcement officials > to work securely on mobile computers -- palmtops and laptops -- to > create virtual private networks (VPNs) over the Internet. > > As many as 3,000 law enforcement officials in Alabama, Georgia, > Louisiana and Mississippi will use a new software application product > called Viatores to build a secure VPN for sharing information while > investigating drug-related crimes. A small start-up company in > Northern Virginia, Ecutel LLC, pioneered the application. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lay8 at helium.dcs.kcl.ac.uk Thu Dec 31 06:26:00 1998 From: lay8 at helium.dcs.kcl.ac.uk (gr8adz) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:26:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Your ad to 1 Million...$50 Message-ID: <19981231666YAA31316@quomsrek.turxo.ee.surrey.ac.uk> EMAIL YOUR MESSAGE TO ONE MILLION ADDRESSES FOR LOW INTRODUCTORY PRICE OF US$50.00 ! This is a Co-Op mailing service! I'll email your 5-line message to 1 million potential buyers for the low Special of US$50. Promote your products and services at a low cost! 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Once you return this Form, I shall perform the service without delay! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ List Removals go to http://www.globalremove.com thank you very much w From jeradonah at juno.com Wed Dec 30 15:15:05 1998 From: jeradonah at juno.com (jeradonah lives) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 07:15:05 +0800 Subject: distribution scheme In-Reply-To: <199812301314.OAA10146@replay.com> Message-ID: <19981230.174514.4551.8.jeradonah@juno.com> On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:14:19 +0100 Anonymous writes: > >>>Falcon, aka FitugMix, wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or >>>other contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each >>>byte in stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's >>>not really encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be >>>hard to read. > >>this concept is virtually identical to fractal encryption, where a >>message is chopped into its component parts (25 a's, 3 b's, 8 c's, >>and so on) and also chopped into a configuration scheme. this form >>of encryption does fall under the definition of munitions by the u.s. >>government... > >yes, I found that out in the meantime. the legal aspect falls short >of my expectations. I still consider the scheme to be both simple and >useful fractal encryption is a simple concept. however, testing of various methods proved that the key was the "pattern recognition" element. because this part is sent separately from the alphanumeric element, the cipher itself is as secure as imaginable. only if someone captures both elements, is able to understand the combination, and break the pattern recognition scheme, can the cipher be read... >I still consider the scheme to be both simple and useful because it >actually changes the byte structure, so looking for 'a' or 'e' or similiar >pattern-analysis does not work anymore. a non-linear methodology will always defeat traditional (linear) cryptoanalysis. but that is precisely the reason that the us government opposes the development and export of this form of encryption scheme... ac ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From sales at golive.com Wed Dec 30 17:20:40 1998 From: sales at golive.com (sales at golive.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:20:40 +0800 Subject: GoLive CyberStudio 30-day Activation Key Message-ID: <199812310052.QAA07336@company.golive.com> Dear Fritzie, Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout software. Your official 30-day activation key is: TRIA1MT23NFJD8MXGGJ85UDA You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the software. Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive CyberStudio. NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to Macintosh Format" is set to "Never". If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software, GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't find your answers there, please send us an email at support at golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638. When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best product for Web site design, please return to our Web site or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1580. Sincerely, Dan Fernandez Director US Sales GoLive Systems Sales at Golive.com From billp at nmol.com Wed Dec 30 17:56:45 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:56:45 +0800 Subject: We promised! Message-ID: <368AD310.120B@nmol.com> John Young We made it. http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm With some help of nmol, I got wsftp working this afternoon. I failed to click on a filename. Good stuff at webmasters.nmol.com. This site is under construction. New employee Randy is putting his software at this site. In particular, look for hypersnap which captures screen shots. This WILL NOT BE OUR WORKING SITE. Only testing so see if I sort-of understand html. Without your advice and ALOPress's html compiler putting-up a web site in one day wouldn't have been possible for me. We plan to post other people's pro se and other lawsuit progress at our site. And try to get some CROOKED JUDGES and clerks removed from the federal court system. Let's hope McKinney and Grassley can help get this settled before IT GETS EVEN WORSE! bill Title: Main(Page 1) Pro se [for yourself] Pro Se Litigation with the US Federal Government Purpose of �The Real World is to help Movers, Shakers, and Do-ers From maxinux at chipware.net Wed Dec 30 18:20:23 1998 From: maxinux at chipware.net (Max Inux) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:20:23 +0800 Subject: Star Trek and Microsoft (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:35:34 -0500 X-Loop: openpgp.net From: Christopher Baker Reply-To: isp-linux at isp-linux.com To: isp-linux at isp-linux.com Subject: Star Trek and Microsoft Star Trek and Microsoft... "Mr. LaForge, have you had any success with your attempts at finding a weakness in the Borg? And Mr. Data, have you been able to access their command pathways?" "Yes, Captain. In fact, we found the answer by searching through our archives on late Twentieth-century computing technology." "What the hell is 'Microsoft'?" "Allow me to explain. We will send this program, for some reason called 'Windows', through the Borg command pathways. Once inside their root command unit, it will begin consuming system resources at an unstoppable rate." "But the Borg have the ability to adapt. Won't they alter their processing systems to increase their storage capacity?" "Yes, Captain. But when 'Windows' detects this, it creates a new version of itself known as an 'upgrade'. The use of resources increases exponentially with each iteration. The Borg will not be able to adapt quickly enough. Eventually all of their processing ability will be taken over, and none will be available for their normal operational functions." "Excellent work. This is even better than that 'unsolvable geometric shape' idea." .. . . 15 Minutes Later . . . "Captain, We have successfully installed the 'Windows' in the command unit and as expected it immediately consumed 85% of all resources. We however have not received any confirmation of the expected 'upgrade'" "Our scanners have picked up an increase in Borg storage and CPU capacity to compensate, but we still have no indication of an 'upgrade' to compensate for their increase." "Data, scan the history banks again and determine if their is something we have missed." "Sir, I believe their is a reason for the failure in the ' upgrade'. Apparently the Borg have circumvented that part of the plan by not sending in their registration cards. "Captain we have no choice. Requesting permission to begin emergency escape sequence 3F . . ." "Wait, Captain I just detected their CPU capacity has suddenly dropped to 0%!" "Data, what does your scanners show?" "Apparently the Borg have found the internal 'Windows' module named 'Solitaire' and it has used up all the CPU capacity." "Lets wait and see how long this 'solitaire' can reduce their functionality." .. . . Two Hours Pass . . . "Geordi what's the status on the Borg?" "As expected the Borg are attempting to re-engineer to compensate for increased CPU and storage demands, but each time they successfully increase resources I have setup our closest deep space monitor beacon to transmit more 'windows' modules from something called the 'Microsoft fun-pack'. "How much time will that buy us ?" "Current Borg solution rates allow me to predicate an interest time span of 6 more hours." "Captain, another vessel has entered our sector." "Identify." "It appears to have markings very similar to the 'Microsoft' logo." "THIS IS ADMIRAL BILL GATES OF THE MICROSOFT FLAGSHIP MONOPOLY. WE HAVE POSITIVE CONFIRMATION OF UNREGISTERED SOFTWARE IN THIS SECTOR. SURRENDER ALL ASSETS, AND WE CAN AVOID ANY TROUBLE. YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS." "The alien ship has just opened its forward hatches and released thousands of humanoid shaped objects." "Magnify forward viewer on the alien craft." "Good Grief, captain! Those are humans floating straight toward the Borg ship with no life support suits! How can they survive the tortures of deep space?!" "I don't believe that those are humans sir, if you will look closer I believe you will see that they are carrying something recognized by twenty-first century man as doe skin leather briefcases, and wearing Armani suits." "Lawyers!!" "It can't be. All the Lawyers were rounded up and sent hurtling into the sun in 2017 during the Great Awakening." "True, but apparently some must have survived." "They have surrounded the Borg ship and are covering it with all types of papers." "I believe that is known in ancient vernacular as 'red tape' it often proves fatal." "They're tearing the Borg to pieces!" "Turn off the monitors. I can't stand to watch, not even the Borg deserve that." ~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Ultimately, education is about our place in the universe, our place in it. The bigger that connection, the bigger our lives and dreams. Through what we take to know and understand, we can be as immense as the milky way--glorious indeed." --Grace Llewellyn, _Teenage Liberation Handbook_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris Baker -- chrisbaker at iname.com, chrisbaker at nls.net "If you keep looking back, you'll lose your momentum." _______ � The http://ISP-Linux.com/ EMAIL DISCUSSION LIST � ______ To Remove, Send An Email To: mailto:remove-isp-linux at isp-linux.com To Join, Send An Email To: mailto:join-isp-linux at isp-linux.com From riburr at shentel.net Wed Dec 30 18:27:22 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:27:22 +0800 Subject: Stinger strike stagesetting Message-ID: <368ADC62.EFC4A25C@shentel.net> There's a story in the Dec. 30, 1998 Washington Post about how US intelligence acquires foreign weapons technology. Specific mention is made about trading US Stinger missile know-how to China for whatever. My guess is the government's trying to set the stage to shift blame away from CIA for leaking antiaircraft missile technology, 1000 Stingers in the hands of Afghan rebels notwithstanding, and the aircraft disasters to come. Story at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/vector123098.htm And, of course the esteemed Mr. Young is always on top of things: http://jya.com/vector.htm From schear at lvcm.com Wed Dec 30 22:15:39 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:15:39 +0800 Subject: Stinger strike stagesetting In-Reply-To: <368ADC62.EFC4A25C@shentel.net> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 805 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webmaster at max-web.com Thu Dec 31 02:32:15 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 18:32:15 +0800 Subject: True Random Numbers Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981231021342.007e9300@max-web.com> Several months ago, someone was talking about "True random numbers" and how to obtain them, and I (rather ignorantly) suggested they run a recorded sound through a program to record a 1 for every peak of volume over a certian threshold , and a 0 for every thing quieter.(I think i suggested a russeling tree, or a waterfall) Just adjust the threshold according to the volume of your sampling. (it was clear in my mind, even if I can't explain it here) Little did I know... Read phrack 54.5. -Kevlar Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions? A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death. Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong" and question authority. From jya at pipeline.com Thu Dec 31 04:07:04 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:07:04 +0800 Subject: BXA Crypto Rule Message-ID: <199812311134.GAA29796@smtp0.mindspring.com> BXA has issued today an interim rule on encryption items which implements the administration's September export policy announcement, and requests comments: http://jya.com/bxa123198.txt (79K) From abd at CDT.ORG Thu Dec 31 05:39:37 1998 From: abd at CDT.ORG (Alan Davidson) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:39:37 +0800 Subject: New Crypto Regs -- More of the Same In-Reply-To: <199812301835.NAA26972@smtp3.mindspring.com> Message-ID: Here is CDT's statement on the new regs. They should be available in the Federal Register this morning. Happy Holidays to all. Here's hoping for some real relief in 1999. -- Alan Alan Davidson, Staff Counsel 202.637.9800 (v) Center for Democracy and Technology 202.637.0968 (f) 1634 Eye St. NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 PGP key via finger December 30, 1998 New Encryption Regs Fail To Change Debate The U.S. government is expected to publish new encryption export regulations in the Federal Register tomorrow that once again grant only limited relief for encryption exports. The new regulations implement the policy announcement on encryption made by the White House last September. While providing welcome incremental relief allowing export of 56-bit encryption, and stronger products to certain industry sectors, the Administration's latest liberalization effort leaves individual privacy at risk and fails to resolve the broader issues surrounding U.S. encryption policy. "These latest encryption regulations are like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic," said CDT Staff Counsel Alan Davidson. "While any export relief is welcome, the U.S. government continues to embrace a failed encryption policy based on export controls and backdoor plaintext access features that threaten privacy and prevent people from protecting themselves online. Today's announcement does little to change the broader policy debate over how to give people the security tools they need to protect their privacy in the Information Age. We expect to continue the policy debate, and the push for sensible encryption legislation, in Congress next year." Major features of the September White House policy, implemented in the new regulations, include: * Decontrol of 56-bit DES products or equivalent (hardware and software) * Export of higher strength products for: * Subsidiaries of U.S. firms * Sectoral relief allowing export of strong encryption products to insurance companies and health and medical organizations * Limited relief allowing export of strong encryption products to online merchants for certain electronic commerce server applications only. * License exceptions allowing export of strong encryption product if they contain "recovery" or other "plaintext access" features (such as "private doorbells") that allow law enforcement access to plaintext without the notice or consent of the end user. While CDT welcomes efforts by the Administration to grant greater export relief, the new regulations leave privacy and security concerns unresolved, particularly for individuals. These include: * 56-bit DES is Not Strong Enough -- Expert cryptographers have argued for years that 56-bit encryption is not sufficient to protect privacy online. Just last summer, a group of California researchers created a "DES Cracker" that broke a 56-bit length encrypted message in just 56 hours, using minimal resources. RSA, the data security company, just this week offering a new prize to anyone who can crack DES in one day. The new Administration policy prohibits the export of far stronger 128-bit encryption products that are becoming the world standard for security. * Individual End-Users are Left Vulnerable -- While the relief offered for particular industry sectors is welcome, individuals seeking to encrypt securely abroad face are left vulnerable. The new policy begs the questions: When do everyday computer users get encryption relief? * U.S Policy Continues Push for Key Recovery and "Plaintext Access" -- The new policy continues to push for adoption of key recovery and other plaintext access products, granting broad relief for products "that, when activated, allow[] recovery of the plaintext of encrypted data without the assistance of the end user." Such access systems create new vulnerable backdoors, jeopardizing personal privacy and creating security concerns where none need exist. (See "The Risks of Key Recovery, Key Escrow, and Trusted Third Party Encryption" experts report, available at http://www.crypto.com/key_study.) CDT remains committed to seeking broad relief from export controls and to promoting the freedom of people to use whatever encryption tools they need to protect their privacy online. For more information on this or other encryption policy and Internet civil liberties issues, please contact Alan Davidson or Ari Schwartz at CDT, (202) 637-9800. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Dec 31 07:31:47 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:31:47 +0800 Subject: DCSB Call for Speakers Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:51:21 -0500 To: dcsb at ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce at ai.mit.edu From: Robert Hettinga Subject: DCSB Call for Speakers Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Reply-To: Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Program Committee of the Digital Commerce Society invites any member of the dcsb mailing lists to submit their proposal for a luncheon talk to the Society. Speakers can be any *principal* in any field of digital commerce. That means anyone who is doing interesting research or development in, or who is making significant market innovation in, the technology, finance, economics, law, or policy of commerce on the global public internetwork. The Committee tends to consider the person giving the talk first, and then gives the speaker lots of discretion in the content of their talk -- as long as it pertains to DCSB's charter to promote innovation in internet commerce. The Society's meetings are held on the first Tuesday of the month at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, One Federal Street, Thirty-Eighth Floor, in Boston, from 12 to 2 in the afternoon. Unfortunately, the Society can not remunerate a speaker for any fees or expenses other than, obviously, the speaker's lunch, and basic overhead projection equipment. There is dial-up internet access for the meeting room. If you, or anyone you know, are interested in speaking to the society, please send, via email, a proposal, consisting of a single paragraph on the speaker, and a single paragraph on the proposed talk, to Robert Hettinga , the chairman of the DCSB Program Committee, and the Society's Moderator. A list of previous speakers can be obtained with the following URL , or, if your mailreader/browser doesn't support mailtos, send info dcsb in the *body* of a message to majordomo at ai.mit.edu . Thank you for considering DCSB in your speaking plans, and, if you have any questions on your submission, please contact me directly. Cordially, Robert A. Hettinga Moderator and Program Committee Chair, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNhTb/sUCGwxmWcHhAQHO2Qf/czV5QvJpM8RsX7UPydK0XAigPU6z+KxR 7sRwSOG+uguMLcEgvp+UItAOtXQc4ZGxMZib3LyqS9Hq3iZVHWTJkY/Qvk9kGUYH WNia7+1JTWfpeScDn8VSLQP4SgXSDXPoAagzxkTGs8fOuuwndb3TeDQOsTZvC/Br +Cb6cH5AM1rUr8IZBw7VJoLAkf0Hi3f1rtrWOp0lQ6DMcTVkfXy3lfa7scVXP90+ Wswa40wCrCp0O1N9mwhZa9BKGzztlksMRZzDLKVZe8tXqBMqdnQ6Un8cLLHIWdpK PFs32XSN9YqXvUQozsthc2Ao0rz4wqlTE26UNhcwCqDff04KrJ5/BA== =IhaG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations." -- David Friedman, _The_Machinery_of_Freedom_ For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From billp at nmol.com Thu Dec 31 09:20:07 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:20:07 +0800 Subject: Learning experience Message-ID: <368BAB83.6D30@nmol.com> Thursday 12/31/98 9:49 AM John Young I did the first update this morning. I wonder how many rows one gets in a table until the system bombs? The Great Satan tries to bury its dissident citizens in its hidden SECRET cemetery. We will try to fix this problem. bill Title: pro se(Page 2) Pro Se [for youself] Litigation with the US Government Click� 12/29/1998 -�� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �� � � � � � � � � � � Date TenFrap40 Legal manuvering- Fed. R. App. P. 40. Petition for Rehearing 12/31/1998 foia3a47.txt Payne and Morales NSA lawsuitLetter accompanying Tenth Circuit ruling � 12/31/1998 foia3a46.txt Payne and Morales NSA lawsuit Tenth Circuit Rule 54(b) ruling 12/31/1998 foia3a44.txt Payne and Morales address US Government lien 12/31/1998 foia3a43.txt Payne and Morales NSA lawsuit STATEMENT OF RULE 54(b) CERTIFICATION 12/31/1998 bur13.txt� Payne exhausts administrative remedies at EEOC 12/29/1998 pena7.txt Payne exhausts administrative remedies at DOE 12/29/1998 jya.com This is a link to John Young's Cryptome web site 12/29/1998 From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Thu Dec 31 09:34:21 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:34:21 +0800 Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Choate [SMTP:ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 1998 4:43 PM > To: cypherpunks at EINSTEIN.ssz.com > Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] > > Forwarded message: > > > X-within-URL: > http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/23/BC-Norway-NameLaws.ap/ > > > Mother of 14 jailed for violating Norway's baby-name law > > > > December 23, 1998 > > Web posted at: 9:52 AM EST (1452 GMT) > > > > > > OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A mother of 14 was jailed this week because she > > refused to change the name she picked for her young son, even though > > that violated Norway's name law. > > > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that she named her > > son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named "bridge." > > Gesher means bridge in Hebrew. > > > > Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of > acceptable > > first and last names. In 1995, Larsen tried to register her son's > name > > as Gesher at her local county office, which rejected the choice as > > illegal. > > [text deleted] > [Trei, Peter] This is the case in many countries - Germany and France for two. In Iceland, immigrants are required to change their names to Norse ones as part of the citizenship process. Peter Trei From ATU5713 at compuserve.com Thu Dec 31 10:44:07 1998 From: ATU5713 at compuserve.com (Alan Tu) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 02:44:07 +0800 Subject: un-erata Message-ID: <199812311318_MC2-651F-AFC3@compuserve.com> The URL in the README.!ST file in the package is correct, thanks to Ralf. Alan From billstewart at att.com Thu Dec 31 11:05:20 1998 From: billstewart at att.com (Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 03:05:20 +0800 Subject: FWD: Boston Globe on International Net Threats Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD5900A02B25@mo3980po13.ems.att.com> The Boston Globe December 28, 1998 Pg. A1 Nations strive to limit freedom of the Internet By David L. Marcus, Globe Staff WASHINGTON - As promised, the Internet is turning into an unstoppable geyser of information, a source of data, news and opinions that flow freely around the world. Except in China, which blocks access to sites about Tibet, Taiwan, democratic movements and dissident groups. Except in Saudi Arabia, which censors sites critical of the royal family. Except in Germany, where a judge sentenced a CompuServe manager to two years in prison for allowing access to pornography. Except in Cuba, which has seized laptop computers from dissidents as "subversive instruments." In short, despite grand promises, the Internet is not yet an unrestricted electronic village green for the world. The more information that becomes available, the more governments try to stanch the flow with new filtering technologies or strict limits on who can use computers. Democracies as well as dictatorships are cracking down on sites that are found to be too dangerous, too lurid, or too controversial. "The restrictions are coming fast and furious," said Barry Steinhardt, chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group based in San Francisco, and head of the American Civil Liberties Union's task force on cyber-liberties. "The Internet is very frightening to many governments because it's an inherently democratic medium, so the first reaction is to reach out and control it." At least 20 countries restrict access to Internet sites, from Bahrain, which bans electronic versions of Playboy magazine and home pages that the government says are pornographic, to Singapore, where the Ministry of Information and the Arts keeps out sexually explicit material and news critical of the government. More than a dozen other countries are considering restrictions. The European Union, for example, is weighing proposals to ban child pornography and xenophobic materials. In Germany, freedom-of-speech advocates are outraged by a judge's decision in May to sentence the CompuServe official to jail (the judge suspended the sentence). The United States, too, is trying to restrict the Internet. A 1996 law, the Communications Decency Act, criminalized on-line communcations that were "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy or indecent, with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten or harass another person." Under that definition, independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr's report to Congress on President Clinton probably would have been banned from the Net. The Supreme Court struck down the law, but another aimed at sites harmful to children is supposed to take effect next year. A growing number of civil liberties groups - such as Global Internet Liberty Campaign, Digital Freedom Network, Internet Freedom, OpenNet, and Britain's Cyber-Rights and Cyber-Liberties - vehemently oppose restrictions on the Internet. But many specialists argue that the issue is more complex. Shouldn't Germany have the right to restrict false and provocative Nazi propaganda? Shouldn't American states have the right to stop electronic dissemination of step-by-step instructions on assembling a car bomb? And why should any government allow child pornography to proliferate? "In all countries, you will find people who argue that certain things should not be available to other people," said David Webster, chairman of the Transatlantic Dialogue on Broadcasting and the Information Society, a group that includes private industry and government. "No politician gets up and says: 'I think the availability of pedophilia material is concomitant to liberty.' He'll lose his seat." The impulse to restrict access has been highlighted this month in China, where the government is holding its first trial of a "cyber-dissident." Lin Hai, a 30-year-old software engineer, is charged with inciting subversion by providing 30,000 Chinese e-mail addresses to a dissident group in Washington. Lin, who says he is innocent, faces a maximum penalty of life in prison. Lawyers who follow China's one-sided judicial system say he is likely to be convicted. In Shanghai, a physicist named Wang Youcai, who registered an independent political party, was sentenced to 11 years in prison. His crime: communicating with democracy activists inside and outside of China. As President Jiang Zemin cracks down on dissent, other cyber-sedition trials are likely in 1999. Less dramatic but just as important, China's day-to-day censorship of the Internet affects scores of groups. The International Campaign for Tibet, for instance, often receives reports that the Chinese government has blocked access to its web site, said communications director Teresa Perrone. But she added that enterprising scholars in China often find ways to circumvent the censors and look at the group's information. Several groups report that when the government blocks sites, the information still reaches Chinese via e-mail, bulletin boards, chat rooms, web sites with code words that filters cannot detect and a variety of creative ways. "China may be the extreme case because they attempted to up a pretty impervious wall around the Internet," said Adam Clayton Powell III, vice president of the Freedom Forum, which advocates unrestricted media. "However, because China wants to be a world economic power they need high-speed, real-time, financial information." Financial reports from services such as Dow Jones or Reuters often contain political news. For every new restriction on the Net, there are new ways to get around it, said Vint Cerf, senior vice president for Internet architecture and technology at MCI-Worldcom. "It just isn't possible," to keep things away from Net viewers, he said. But Jonathan Zittrain, executive director of the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School, said improved technology will make it easier to keep track of who is looking at the Net and to restrict what is seen. "China has fairly crude tools for filtering, but my prediction is the Internet of 2000 is one that China will have less difficulty in regulating," he said. Some countries that have sampled the Internet have found it distasteful. Last year, Vietnam decided to allow the public to use Internet services. But 10 days ago, the Communist Party decided to set up a committee to consider restrictions as a way of "correcting mistakes and bias," the Liberated Saigon newspaper reported. "The stronger the central government, the more conservative they are in terms of allowing political information on the Internet," said Grey Burkhart, a retired communications expert from the Navy reserve who helps international groups get access to technology. Burkhart has taken a special interest in developing countries, including Russia, Bosnia, and Syria. It isn't easy. Despite the government's pledges to open Syria, the country still has no Internet service provider. To access the Internet, computer users have to make long-distance calls to Lebanon and other countries. Syrians aren't allowed to have cellular telephones, which are considered a security risk. This year, however, Syria allowed computer modems to be installed and an Internet service is promised. The most restrictive countries, including Iraq, North Korea and Cuba, are those that control all forms of media, not just the Internet. In Havana's airport, several laptops carried in by passengers and intended for dissident groups have been seized in the last couple of years, said Frank Calzon, executive director of the Center for a Free Cuba. Police even took a $150 electronic typewriter from a dissident becaue it was "an instrument of high-tech subversion," Calzon said. Surprisingly, Latin America, which has a tradition of censorship, has been quite open to the Internet. Pedro Armendariz, the director of Investigative Editors and Reporters in Mexico, a non-profit group, has traveled to conferences in Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Peru and throughout Mexico. Outside of Cuba, he has found no restrictions on the Net, other than the expense of service and unreliable telephone lines. "I would dare to say that far from having serious restrictions in Latin America, we have a problem with sorting through so many things on the Net and discriminating about what is useful and what is garbage," Armendariz said. From fnorky at chisp.net Thu Dec 31 12:13:22 1998 From: fnorky at chisp.net (Douglas L. Peterson) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 04:13:22 +0800 Subject: Englewood seeks limit on Net sex sites Message-ID: <368BE358.BC07E252@chisp.net> Seems this stuff is now in my own back yard. If anyone wants to talk to the people involved, go here: http://www.ci.englewood.co.us/ http://www.denver-rmn.com/news/1231filt4.shtml > Englewood seeks limit on Net sex sites > > Program to curb access of children at libraries > > Associated Press > > > ENGLEWOOD -- The Englewood Public Library will > be the first in Colorado to try a new technology > strictly limiting children's access to sex sites > on the World Wide Web. Mayor Tom Burns said the > city and its librarians have no intention of > censoring the Internet, and the Guardiannet > program can be cancelled after a 30-day test run > if it doesn't work out. > > Starting in April, all of the library's Internet > users will need a plastic "Smart Card" to go > online. The cards will be coded to indicate > whether children under 18 have their parents' > permission to full access or should be restricted > to the limited database of 5,000 child-friendly sites. > > "It's a solution that allows parents to make > the decision, rather than the institution," said > City Manager Gary Sears. > > However, Sears said the move could invite > lawsuits from civil rights groups that may > view the city's decision as censorship. The > move also comes amid national debate > among librarians on whether blocking systems > constitutes censorship and violates First > Amendment rights. > > Jamie LaRue, president of the Colorado Library > Association, called Internet restrictions > "a tricky issue." > > "When I was a little boy ...I knew what was > wrong," LaRue said. "The part that bothers > me is that we are using technological > inventions to replace civility and conscience in > what is in fact an ethical problem." > > The Englewood City Council voted 5-2 to > approve the $108,000 contract with > Guardiannet, even though the library > board recommended against it. > > Councilwoman Lauri Clapp said it will give > the library the needed tools to help parents > protect their children. City Councilwoman > Alex Habenicht opposed the measure. > > December 31, 1998 -Doug www.TheServerFarm.net From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Dec 31 15:03:52 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 07:03:52 +0800 Subject: critique of capitalism/moore Message-ID: <199812312229.OAA04038@netcom13.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:04:29 -0500 From: "Mark A. Smith" To: Mark Subject: SNET: Police State Conspiracy - An Indictment (Conclusions) - -> SNETNEWS Mailing List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------5E5047714EA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/51b.htm - --------------5E5047714EA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="51b.htm" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="51b.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by echo.flash.net id MAA07108 THE POLICE STATE CONSPIRACY =97 an INDICTMENT =97 [Image] By RICHARD MOORE [CLOSING ARGUMENTS] Presented before the GRAND JURY of LIBERTY On this FOURTH DAY of HEARING The PEOPLE v NWO Et Al Defendant 1 - NWO ("Corporate Globalist Elite") Defendant 2 - MEDIA ("Corporate Mass Media") Defendant 3 - GOVT ("National Government Leadership") Defendant 4 - INTELCOM ("Intelligence Community") Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, in the first three days of this hearing we have seen how the infrastructures of a police state are being established in the United States. Civil liberty protections have been systematically dismantled; conspiracy laws permit the conviction of people not involved in crimes; police forces are being paramilitarised; longer sentences are being given for minor offences; prison populations are growing dramatically. We have seen how factionalism is being promoted in order to divide society against itself; we have seen how the evidence shows that dramatic incidents, such as the World Trade Centre and Oklahoma Federal Building bombings, have been covertly and intentionally staged in order to avoid debate in the implementation of police-state measures. Today, in these closing arguments, we will examine two points. First, we will review the background of the NWO capitalist elite in order to understand why political suppression via police-state measures is an inevitable necessity for them. Second, we will review recent developments in Ireland, to show how police-state measures which took years to justify politically in the US are being exported wholesale to other Western countries. 1. Capitalism and the Necessity of Police States in the West The religion of the NWO elite is capitalism, and the root of most of the problems of the world today, including the development of police states in the West, can be traced to the dynamics of capitalism. The dictionary definition of "capitalist" begins: "An investor of capital in business..." What distinguishes capitalism from earlier forms of private commerce and trade is the emphasis on external capital investment =97 funds which are invested in an enterprise for the purpose of increasing the value of the investment. In particular capitalism is characterised by stock corporations, where ownership shares in a business can be bought and sold. Stockholders are technically the owners of an enterprise, but the interests of stockholders are not the same as the interests of an owner who also operates an enterprise. An owner-operator is concerned with operating a healthy business and developing it over time. He or she might be interested in growing the business, or might just as well be happy for it to stabilise at some manageable size and then bring in a stable ongoing profit. But a capitalist, an external investor, is interested solely in the growth of the business, which is what increases the value of the stock investment. A stable business translates into stagnant stock values; a business which is merely profitable is not a good place for capital investment. One can compare a corporation =97 or any investment vehicle =97 to a taxicab, and an investor to a rider. The operator of a taxicab is concerned with keeping the vehicle in good repair and making a regular profit over time. A rider, on the other hand, is only concerned with his own use of the vehicle. If the rider gets to his destination on time, he has little concern over whether the vehicle is damaged in the process. Similarly a capital investor uses an investment vehicle. Only a period of growth is required by the investor. If the vehicle then falters, investors simply sell their shares and reinvest elsewhere. The history of capitalism is indeed strewn with the carcasses of boom-and-bust corporations, industries, and whole economies. In a capitalist economy there is a pool of capital =97 the sum of all the money investors are making available. Just as water seeks its own level, so this ever-growing capital pool always seeks the best available growth opportunities. And just as water over time can wear down the highest mountain, so the relentless pressure of this growth-seeking capital pool eventually creates an economy and society in which growth is the dominant agenda. External ownership =97 the separation of ownership from operation =97 is the origin of the growth imperative in a capitalist economy. The evolution of capitalism proceeds according to the following dynamic. In each phase of its development capitalism operates within a larger societal regime =97 a particular political, cultural, technological, and economic environment. Within this regime, under the relentless pressure of the investment pool, the various investment vehicles are exploited to the maximum practical degree. There always comes a point where further growth of the pool becomes problematic or impossible. When such a societal growth barrier is encountered, the creative energy of capitalism is unleashed on a new objective: changing the surrounding societal regime. There is thus a characteristic rhythm to capitalist evolution. Periods of growth within a regime are punctuated by changes of regime designed to create a new period of growth. A new societal regime might be characterised by technological changes (the Industrial Revolution), by political changes (creation of republics), or by new societal projects (imperialism.) Driven by its relentless growth imperative, capitalism has become the driving force behind societal evolution wherever it has taken hold. Apologists for capitalism call such societal changes "progress" and emphasise whatever real or imagined beneficial qualities might be present. In fact such changes have been designed by human creativity yoked to the objective not of societal improvement, but to that of creating new investment vehicles for the ever-voracious capital pool. In fact the intentional destruction of societies and economies, particularly but not only in colonised nations, has been a technique frequently employed to create new investment vehicles. One of the most important and characteristic societal developments brought about by capitalism is the rise of capitalist elite oligarchies. Given that the evolution of capitalism proceeds through an ongoing series of intentional societal changes, it is only natural that the mechanisms of societal control would themselves evolve over time and eventually be consolidated into political domination by a capitalist elite. People of the same trade seldom meet together... but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. =97 Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations In every society where capitalism has taken hold, a dominant capitalist oligarchy has in fact emerged, along with the establishment of institutions designed to further elite interests in a systematic way. Today, the United States itself has become a vehicle for managing world events so as to facilitate investment, to make the world safe for capitalism. Transnational corporations (TNC=92s) have evolved into gigantic engines for generating capital growth, and TNC-dominated bureaucracies (International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Trade Organisation, et al) are being given global decision-making power over a wide range of issues, loosely called economic =97 and those institutions are rapidly becoming in all but name a world government. Global capitalism today is coming up against several constraints, and globalisation, in its full NWO dimensionality, can be seen as the creative attempt by very competent, corporate-funded planners to overcome those constraints. One of the constraints comes from the very global success of capitalism =97 there is no longer any possibility of growth through territorial expansion. Other means of growth =97 and many have been perfected over the years =97 must b= e deployed. In Southeast Asia, in Africa, and in the former Soviet Union, the policies of Western finance capital and of its tool, the IMF, have created capital-growth vehicles through the intentional destruction of once healthy economies. In South Korea, for example, Western over-investment was followed by the sudden withdrawal of funds and credit. Thus a financial bubble was created, and when it burst the South Korean currency was destroyed and the national finances were depleted. In desperate need of finance, South Korea was forced to turn to the IMF. The IMF then came forward with one of its infamous "restructuring" programs which in truth should be called "demolition" programs. Sound businesses that had been thriving only weeks before were forced into bankruptcy; South Korea was forced to change its social and labour policies from top to bottom; the systems were dismantled which had been responsible for South Korea=92s postwar economic success. These so-called IMF "reforms" which were forced on South Korea had nothing to do with the causes of the financial collapse. Not only that, but the IMF "rescue funds" did not go to South Korea at all, but were rather used to repay the external investors whose market manipulations had caused the collapse. While Western taxpayers fund the IMF, and Southeast Asian (and other) populations suffer the consequences of IMF policies, it is Western capital that reaps all the benefits. What were the benefits reaped by Western capital? To begin with, the IMF bailout of the investors means that Western capital was first able to profit from the decades of South Korean growth, but was then protected when the bubble burst. Global capitalism has been called "casino capitalism", and the IMF makes sure that the big players cannot lose in this game, no matter which cards turn up. But that was only the beginning. To understand the primary benefit derived from destroying the South Korean economy, we must note that capitalism is currently suffering from what is called a "crisis of over-production". The efficiency and size of TNC producers have evolved to the degree where much more can be produced than can possibly be consumed. In automobiles, electronics, and many other industries there are simply too many producers chasing too few consumers. Interventions such as in South Korea and the former Soviet Union have become a systematic mechanism to selectively cull global competitors, thus creating growth room for those that remain. In addition, the assets and productive capacity of the victims have been made available at bargain prices for purchase by Western interests. This selective destruction of economies is a "regime change" in the global society, designed to create growth vehicles for the Western capital pool. Elimination of producers creates growth room in the global economy for Western operators; bargain purchase of assets increases monopoly concentration of global commerce in Western hands; destabilised societies are forced to import what they formerly produced for themselves, further increasing Western capital-growth opportunities. One of the myths of globalisation is that it represents a relative decline of Western interests, that market forces will allow other regions to make inroads against traditional Western domination. With the postwar economic rise of Japan and later Southeast Asia, this myth in fact gained considerable credibility. But as the postwar boom began to level out, and a new regime of growth became necessary, it has become clear that the global capital elite remains primarily a Western elite. The IMF is in fact dominated primarily by Western-based interests, and its power has been used to selectively cull non-Western operators. While the IMF culls competitors using the power of the purse strings, the US and NATO accomplish the same objective in other ways. In the case of the petroleum market, where limiting supply is crucial to maintaining desired global oil prices, geopolitical machinations have been employed to restrict at various times the production of Iran, Iraq, Libya, and others. By encouraging the split-up of Yugoslavia, which competed in several world markets including automobile production, additional culling was accomplished. As capitalism enters its global era, it is doing so under the control of the Western capitalist elite. This elite dominates the leading Western nations politically, even more firmly controls the foreign policies of those nations, and totally controls the policies of the IMF, the World Bank, and the other institutions of the global governmental apparatus. All the potent agencies which determine the course of global societal evolution are firmly in the control of the Western elite. But in another sense the decline of the West is not myth but reality. Western elites remain in firm control and continue to prosper under globalisation, but Western societies are in fact in decline =97 economically, culturally, and politically. This decline is intentional, planned and implemented by the capitalist elite as a societal change designed, as always, to create growth vehicles for the capital pool. This particular episode of Western societal engineering is called the "neoliberal revolution" and it was formally launched with the candidacies of Ronald Reagan in the US and Margaret Thatcher in the UK, and with the adoption of the Maastricht Treaty in Europe. The agenda of the neoliberal revolution is summed up in the all-too-familiar mantra "free trade, deregulation, privatisation, and reform". The true meaning of this agenda can be easily found by analysing each transaction in terms of its consequences for capital growth. Free trade, whose practical definition must be inferred from the terms of the international free-trade agreements, in fact means the elimination of national sovereignty over the flow of capital and goods. The consequence is that TNC=92s have more flexibility in optimising production and distribution, and in exploiting the opportunities created by the culling of competitors. This flexibility is the growth vehicle provided by the free-trade plank of the neoliberal platform. Deregulation refers to the elimination of national sovereignty over corporate concentration, capital movement, corporate operations, pricing, and product standards. Again the benefit is clear. Greater freedom in concentrating ownership, shifting capital, operating without environmental or other restraints, raising prices, and reducing standards =97 these all provide vehicles for growth in this neoliberal phase of capitalism in Western economies. Privatisation refers to the sale of national assets to corporate operators and the transfer of control over national infrastructures to those operators. Each such transfer creates an immediate growth vehicle for capital, in the exploitation of the asset and the infrastructure. In addition the transfers have been in fact sweetheart deals where negotiators on both sides of the transactions have represented the interests of the same capitalist elite. Asset values have been heavily discounted, through various tried-and-true trickeries of accounting, and the "sales" have in fact represented immediate transfers of wealth from public ownership directly into corporate coffers. The sale transactions themselves are growth vehicles. Reform, besides referring to generic compliance with the neoliberal agenda, also means reducing the taxes of corporations and the wealthy, eliminating social services, and generally cutting back the functions of government. Obviously these tax changes serve to grow the capital pool. The elimination of social services also serves as a growth vehicle in two ways. Workers become hungrier for employment, creating a downward pressure on wages. New enterprises can be started in order to provide the services formerly provided by government (medical care, insurance, etc). The general cutting back of government functions is simply part of the sovereignty transfer from national governments to the centralised regime of global institutions. As power and administration is concentrated globally, the role of national governments is being reduced and refocused. As has been long true of governments in much of the Third World, the role of Western governments is devolving toward three major functions: conforming to the dictates of the global regime, making payments on the national debt, and controlling the domestic population. The paramilitarisation of police forces, the rise in prison populations, and the extension of police powers are very necessary societal changes required to enable the full implementation of the neoliberal agenda. It is no accident that in the USA, where the neoliberal agenda has been most thoroughly implemented, the collateral police-state apparatus is also most thoroughly deployed. SWAT teams, midnight raids, property confiscations, mandatory and draconian sentencing, a booming prison-construction industry, increased surveillance and monitoring of individuals and organisations =97 these are all an increasing part of the American scene. Government officials have stated that Americans must expect even more dramatic security measures, and that military vehicles and weapons can be expected in domestic situations where warranted by security concerns. The neoliberal agenda in fact amounts to the dismantlement of Western societies, undoing what was in some sense many decades of social progress. Although the dominant global elite remains based in the West, strong Western societies are no longer required under the global regime, as they were in the era of competitive nationalism. Just as the IMF devastates non-Western societies in ways that provide growth vehicles, so the neoliberal revolution devastates Western societies for the same purpose, if at a somewhat more gradual pace. Police-state regimes, whether or not acknowledged by that name, are an inevitable necessity if Western nations are to be kept in line as the neoliberal dismantlement, which is still in its early days, continues to unfold. 2. Exporting the Police State: Ireland and the Omagh Bombing I=92ve been living in the UK and Ireland for over four years. I=92ve been observing the peace process and the tactics of the various sides, including several Irish Republican Army (IRA) bombings. While by no means condoning violent methods, I have been nonetheless impressed by the care that went into the planning and execution of most of the IRA=92s operations. Huge bombs were set off in London, in the heart of the financial district and at the Docksides complex, causing immense property damage and embarrassment to British officials, with surprisingly little injury or loss of life. Without approving of violence, one can still acknowledge that the IRA has, at least in recent years, been politically astute in their (nonetheless unjustifiable) operations. The Omagh bombing was totally out of character; it made no sense whatsoever within the political context of Northern Ireland and the progress of the peace process. Certainly there are dissident elements who aren=92t satisfied with the compromises that have been reached, but accommodations have been made to all sides, and the overwhelming spirit in both North and South is to reach a settlement and put the "troubles behind us". The Omagh bombing was the most deadly of the entire 30-year "troubles". It was out of character not only by its timing, but also in terms of its scale. My first response on hearing of it was "Where did this come from?" It seemed to have come from out of the blue, totally unrelated to the Irish context. It felt like one of the "staged dramatic incidents" that we reviewed in the previous instalment of this Indictment (see New Dawn No. 48). Suspicious, I waited for the other shoe to drop. I didn=92t have to wait long. The headline on page seven of the Irish Times for September 1st reads: "Harsh measures =91regrettably necessary=92 to fight terrorism." Here we read of a fourteen-point anti-terrorism bill that is, in its essentials, copied directly from the police-state provisions that have been adopted in varying degrees by the US and Britain. A suspect who refuses to answer questions, can have his silence used against him. The silence itself can be "inferred" as being corroborating evidence against the suspect. The right to trial by jury becomes little more than a sham: if the suspect doesn=92t confess all, he either opens himself to perjury (by lying) or else builds, through silence, an "inferred" case against himself. The validity of trial by jury is further undermined by a another provision, which requires the defense to announce to the prosecution, in advance of a trial, all witnesses it is going to call. Thus the prosecution is armed in advance with the strategy of the defense, much to its advantage. And witnesses are exposed to possible harassment leading up to the trial, the fear of which could have a chilling effect on their willingness to testify. As if that weren=92t enough, a suspect is expected to divulge, under police questioning, every bit of evidence that he might rely on in his defense. Otherwise "inferences" can be drawn. The very vagueness of "inferences" still further extends the power of the state over that of the accused in what has become a mockery of a criminal trial. The "conduct" of an accused =97 by which he can be judged guilty =97 is re-defined to include "movements, activities, actions or associations". The critical word here is "associations". If you can be proved to be a member of an organisation, and if that organisation engages in illegal acts, then your mere association makes you to some degree a party to the acts. This provision establishes in Ireland what in the US are known as conspiracy laws. Such laws, in conjunction with agent provocateurs, can be used to suppress popular organisations which legitimately and legally oppose government policies. Just as the US President, under police-state provisions, can declare any organisation to be a "terrorist organisation", so can the Irish government "suppress" any organisation under the 1939 "Offences Against the State" act. The new "regrettable measures" of the anti-terrorism bill extend considerably the power of the state to succeed in suppressing any organisation it decides it doesn=92t like. Under the charge of "directing an unlawful organisation", one can receive life imprisonment. "Directing", it turns out, means directing the activities of the organisation "at any level". Thus, if an organisation has been officially "suppressed", all of its leaders down to the precinct level can be rounded up and put in prison with the key thrown away =97 simply for being leaders, and even if the organisation is engaged in no illegal activity. Under the charge of "unlawful collection of information" one can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. If you have maps and lists of people, perhaps to support political organising, and the prosecutor says you were planning a terrorist network, it is up to you to prove he=92s wrong. Again trial by jury is made a mockery. Instead of the state proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt, it is up to the accused to prove they aren=92t guilty. During thirty years of troubles such anti-terrorist provisions were not considered necessary. Then on the very eve of final settlement a mysterious, uncharacteristic "incident" occurs in Omagh, and with suspicious suddenness the Irish government comes up with an anti-terrorism bill which mimics the "latest developments" in the police-state provisions of the US and Britain. The parallels between the Oklahoma City and Omagh bombing scenarios are striking. Both were unprecedented in their scale of death and injury; neither made any sense in terms of being a "political statement" for any group or organisation; the circumstance of both were highly suspicious; both were immediately followed by the passage of omnibus anti-terrorism bills without debate. Summary The pattern, then, is clear. The US leads the way in the development of police-state measures and of the means to get them implemented without debate. The measures are then exported to other countries by the tried-and-true method of staging dramatic incidents. Globalisation is a very systematic process, as we have seen in the pattern of IMF interventions, and as we can see in the establishment of global governing institutions. It is no surprise that a systematic means have been developed to implement the police-state regimes which are required to fulfill the aims of the neoliberal revolution. The evidence, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is clear. Our NWO elite leaders are committed to the program of corporate globalisation. They are compelled to this strategy by the need to keep their capital pool growing. Reducing Western populations to Third-World status is a necessary part of their plans for the globalisation of the economy and the consolidation of all power in their centralised bureaucracies. The installation of police-state regimes is being purposely pursued in order to force this elite program on Western populations. I suggest to you that the only reasonable verdict is "guilty as charged", and that the sentence should be the overthrow of the capitalist elite oligarchy, through non-violent democratic revolution, and the replacement of the capitalist system by one more appropriate to human happiness and well-being. I thank you for your attention and invite you to go forth and do your duty as free men and women to secure the future of the Earth and of your progeny. Recommended Reading (alphabetical order): William Blum, Killing Hope, US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, 1995, Common Courage Press, PO Box 702, Monroe, ME 04951, USA. Michel Chossudovsky, The Globalisation of Poverty, 1997, Third World Network, 228, Macalister Road, 10400 Penang, Malaysia, fax 60 4 226 4505. Richard Douthwaite, The Growth Illusion, 1992, Lilliput Press, Dublin. William Greider, Who Will Tell the People =97 the Betrayal of American Democracy, 1993, Simon and Schuster. Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, 1997, Simon and Schuster. V.I. Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, 1939, International Publishers Co. Jerry Mander and Edward Goldsmith (editors), The Case Against the Global Economy and for a Turn Toward the Local, 1996, Sierra Club Books, San Francisco. Richard K. Moore, Globalization and the Revolutionary Imperative, a book-in-progress available online at http://cyberjournal.org/cadre/gri/gri.html Michael Parenti, Make-Believe Media =97 the Politics of Entertainment, 1992, St. Martin=92s Press, New York. David Wise, The American Police State, 1973, Vintage Books. Previous parts of Richard Moore=92s Police State Conspiracy =97 An Indictment were published in New Dawn Nos. 46, 47 & 48. [Image] Richard Moore, an expatriate from Silicon Valley, currently lives and writes in Wexford, Ireland. He currently runs the Cyberjournal "list" on the Internet. Email: rkmoore at iol.ie, FTP: ftp://ftp.iol.ie/users/rkmoore/cyberlib Address: PO Box 26, Wexford, Ireland. - --------------5E5047714EA-- - -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com - -> Posted by: "Mark A. Smith" ------- End of Forwarded Message From rah at shipwright.com Thu Dec 31 16:36:40 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 08:36:40 +0800 Subject: Northpole Standoff Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:28:40 -0800 To: rah at shipwright.com, Other People... From: Somebody Subject: Northpole Standoff Dec. 23, 1994 Northpole Standoff A fierce battle ended in a stand-off today as a multi-jurisdictional task force of federal law enforcement agents tried to arrest the leader of a militant doomsday cult, who call themselves "Elves," living in a heavily fortified compound at the Northpole. According to witnesses, federal agents hid in livestock trailers as they drove up to the compound. The approach was difficult in the snow using wheeled vehicles. Several agents were reportedly thrown from the trailer when it hit a snowbank. The agents were unable to use dog teams and sleds because the ATF agents shot all the dogs during training at a nearby recreational facility where agents had practiced for weeks on a mock-up of the compound in preparation for the raid. As three National Guard helicopters approached, over 100 law officers stormed the main compound, a heavily fortified gingerbread structure, throwing concussion grenades and screaming "Come out!" Cult members and law officers negotiated a cease-fire about 45 minutes after the incident began. For the next several hours, ambulances and helicopters swarmed the premises. The area was cordoned off and ATF agents with machine guns were posted in the roadways to keep reporters at least two miles from the main battle area. In a lengthy report on the group Saturday, The Northpole Tribune-Herald said that the cult was known to have a large arsenal of high-powered weapons, probably produced in a workshop disguised as a "toy factory." This toy factory is also believed to be the sight of a mephamphetamine laboratory, according to sources inside the ATF. The article quoted investigators as saying the crazed cult leader, who uses several aliases, "Santa Claus," "Saint Nick," "Sinterclaas," and "Saint Nicholas," age unknown, has abused children and claims to have at least 15 wives. Santa Claus denies these accusations of abuse and said he has had only one wife, Mrs. Santa Claus. Authorities had a warrant to search the Northpole compound for guns and explosive devices and an arrest warrant for its leader, Santa Claus, said Mess Stanford of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Washington, D.C. Mr. Stanford added it would be useless to attempt to get a copy of this warrant, however, because it had been sealed, "for national security reasons." The assault came one day after the Northpole Tribune-Herald began publishing a series on the cult, quoting former members as saying the deranged cult leader, Santa Claus, abused children and had at least 15 wives. ATF spokesman Jack Killchildren in Washington said the assault had been planned for several weeks, although he added, "I think the newspaper's investigation set up heightened tension." The cult's fortress, called "The Toy Factory," is dominated by a tower with lookout windows facing in all directions. Guards reportedly patrol the 77-acre grounds at night. Attorney General Janet Reno ordered the raid after cult members refused to surrender documents relating to national security. A source inside the Justice Department said that the documents were lists of cabinet members and highly placed government officials who were naughty or nice. Despite preliminary, secret negotiations to obtain the list, the Elves refused to surrender the document to the Justice Department. The raid was scheduled for December 23, because December 25 is believed to be a traditional cult holiday and all the militant elves would be engaged in cult rituals in preparation for the event. At a press conference this afternoon, Attorney General Reno said, "These militants abuse children in the most vile manner, by teaching them to expect charity. They have even distributed free, working replicas of 'assault weapons' and 'handguns.' It is a matter of dire importance to our future and the future of all our children, that this peril be ended by every means at our disposal." She went on to say that "I do not want to surround the compound and shoot everyone and then burn it to the ground in order to prevent this child abuse from occurring again, but that appears to be our only alternative." According to Reno, the "Toy Factory" itself is a sweatshop and conditions inside were horrendous. The Department of Justice is also looking into allegations of animal cruelty. Former members of the cult have claimed that Santa Claus frequently uses leather restraints on at least eight reindeer, housed in sordid conditions on the compound. Witnesses reported seeing a reindeer with a protruding red nose, which Janet Reno said was further indication of the abusive conditions inside the compound. Several of the elves were reported by the BATF to have been carrying automatic weapons. However, independent sources dispute this, claiming that the "automatic weapons" were nothing more than large candy canes. ATF leader Ted Oyster, shaken after the ordeal, spoke to reporters as hundreds of agents, many of them in tears, were taken away from the Northpole in military airlifts, ambulances, and private vehicles. "We had our plan down, we had our diversion down, and they were waiting..." Oyster said resignedly, shaking his head. A hospital spokesman said that most of the wounded ATF agents appeared to be suffering from shrapnel wounds from broken candy canes, as well as frostbite, apparently suffered from wearing forest-green camouflage in the wintry terrain. Attorney General Reno offered no comment on these reports. Mack "the knife" McWarty was seen strolling across the White House lawn, chuckling to himself as he read what inside sources say was a copy of the naughty/nice list. One highly placed government official was found dead in Marcy Park. His name and the cause of death are unknown at this time, however, the White House immediately issued a statement claiming the official had committed suicide after learning his name was not on the nice list. Patsy Thomahawk refused to comment on the advice of her attorney on whether she had any part in removing copies of the naughty/nice list from a safe in the White House. A spokesman from the MJTF said that it was indeed a tragedy that Santa Claus had caused this confrontation, but this should be a lesson to anyone who tries to give to everyone without permission from the welfare department, and that gathering sensitive data without a permit from official sources will be stopped by any means. FBI spokesman Bob Pricks, the former national Abortion Poster Child of 1944, relayed that "We are dealing with a madman. We have cut off all electricity, water, and communications to the compound. Santa Claus has demanded that we relay a message to the world. It reads, 'Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.' FBI psychological experts are presently analyzing the message, however, preliminary reports indicate this is an encrypted threat to invade the neighboring towns near the Northpole. It may also be a doomsday message that the cult intends to commit suicide, like Jonestown." Shortly after the raid, a smiling Reno was seen strolling through the pile of rubbish looking for anatomically correct Barbie dolls. She claimed that she was going to confiscate any that she found as "evidence" and that they were for a personal investigation that she was conducting. Attorney General Reno also disclosed some information about plans to raid Mr. E. Ster Bunny sometime next spring. According to the FBI's report on Mr. Bunny, he has been hoarding food all year. This is in direct violation of a secret Presidential Directive. "This ingratitude for everything that we have done will stop, even if it means raiding every house in the USA to enforce these new laws that were made to insure your freedom...." Reno said. This, boys and girls, should make us all sleep just a little bit better tonight. The government will protect us from overindulging in freedom. If they didn't step in and take control of that "naughty/nice" list, just think what shape we might be in..... ***** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Thu Dec 31 19:56:56 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:56:56 +0800 Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Icelandic last names, and old Norse last names in general, change, algorithimically, every generation. Your "last" name, if male, is your father's first name with "son" after it. If you're female it's your mother's first name, with, I believe "dottir" (daughter) after it. So, if your parents are Eric (say :-)), and, um, Helga, and you're male and your name is Lief, your name would be (oddly enough) Lief Ericsson. If you're female, and your name is, oh, Greta, (I don't know many female Norse names, and that's probably not one, Miss Garbo to the contrary) then your name would be Greta Helgasdottir, or something like that. Icelanders on the list will correct the specifics, of course. The price of error is bandwidth, and all that, but you get the idea. So, no matter who your are, if you're to become an Icelandic citizen, your last name changes. Mine, since my family's Fresian, would change from "Hettinga" ("guy who lives on a hill", which almost everyone did, or they lived in a swamp :-)), to "Ralphson", which, fortunately, is almost passable Icelandic. Actually, Frisians, the bad guys in Beowulf, could almost pass for Norse in general, as anyone who's met me might testify. Think of it as an anonymous renamer? :-). Cheers, Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNoxD0MUCGwxmWcHhAQG3SQf/dpUEFsoxvfkwROqxnig9qR7+k73AFTR+ 8pXtRfxwUjpDjO72xmHOUerC9xdHBjG2pYJKcsuq13iq+DNlYRTuOIBvWf4EJd0d G82aTtlAvS5KwmTGyTzJPepVlXuaX+Aimb3aBEUYwZrssLbaCAMgtv+GEf6f1URy vifxjZHYa/+2Vi/VOQzLIuzpBjs2NFmSgU4vqdz6hKBPM7KHQiedIcvC/aUxonLH wqNqOtQJuwwuPUcxJElh1rj+9xlhqT2DiLQe3cq3p/JYCr3NR3seqk6OqNs4pCVp 5aww4TaiEvGips+rFvPcQPLHDdfTY+z8fw39m9s2rGlJ4I7LYu570w== =M3Rr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From tcmay at got.net Thu Dec 31 20:14:14 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:14:14 +0800 Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:59 PM -0800 12/31/98, Reeza! wrote: >THAT is _almost_ understandable. You say that Iceland requires immigrants >to change their names to Norse ones, you didn't say to Norse ones on the >approved list. or Norse ones avoiding those on the disapproved list. Does >Iceland have the same "children who are born here are Icelandic citizens, >regardless of the nationality of the parents" provision of the US >constitution? Is that written into the Constitution? I wasn't aware of that. If so, I will have learned something new tonight, perhaps the last major new thing I learn in 1998. There is talk of changing this law (or, I suppose, item in the C.) which allows and even encourages pregnant Mexicans and Salvadorans and Guatemalans to sneak into the U.S. just in time to have their babies in an American hospital, thus making the children American citizens (and mustn't separate mother from child, right?). Israel of course has laws allowing anyone born of a Jewish mother to "return" to Israel...never mind that they may have essentially no genetic content of any ancestor who ever lived in Palestine, even the Palestine of 3500 years ago. Ireland has a fairly new law which allows anyone with any Irish born grandparents or parents to get Irish citizenship. (Both Israel and Ireland, and presumably other places, would like to encourage wealthy Americans to relocate.) >About the only place I can think of where prohibiting certain names might- >might be justifiable, is in countries where the names of certain criminals >are associated with crimes of such heinous magnitude that it would create >an emotional burden the viable tissue mass would never be able to overcome. >'Adolf Hitler' Xxxxxx, 'Charles Manson' Yyyyyy, or 'Hannibal Lector' Zzzzz, >(heh) for example. It's just another case of jingoism (maintaining their >culture re: populace naming conventions) and religious persecution (the >babies name is hebrew, the mother of 10 claims christianity for her own),,, It is not the function of a legitimate government to pass laws to stop "emotional burdens" on children. If it were, then various religions which expose the children of practicitioners to ridicule would be candidates for banning. As with so many things, Reeza!!, you need to carefully think about these political issues. Frankly, from the views you often express, I wonder why you support freely available unbreakable and untraceable communications. --Tim May We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Dec 31 20:35:55 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:35:55 +0800 Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199901010425.WAA09537@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 19:57:17 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: RE: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] > At 5:59 PM -0800 12/31/98, Reeza! wrote: > > >THAT is _almost_ understandable. You say that Iceland requires immigrants > >to change their names to Norse ones, you didn't say to Norse ones on the > >approved list. or Norse ones avoiding those on the disapproved list. Does > >Iceland have the same "children who are born here are Icelandic citizens, > >regardless of the nationality of the parents" provision of the US > >constitution? > > Is that written into the Constitution? I wasn't aware of that. If so, I > will have learned something new tonight, perhaps the last major new thing I > learn in 1998. No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. The first sentence is normaly considered the legal standard that is being referenced here. It's the only place in the Constitution that refers to how one actualy gains citizenship. There are apparently three (one unmentioned) ways: 1. natural born (ie being physicaly born on US soil) is the highest measure of 'American' citizenship 2. being a citizen of the US at the time of ratification 3. Unementioned, but implied by the stipulation of 1. for the office of president. The intent is commenly held that this prevents foreign nationals of long-standing from bringing foreign influence into the office. Implicit is that the legislature set relevant standards. ____________________________________________________________________ What raises the standard of living may well diminish the quality of life. The Club of Rome The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------