From 00479486 at 22629.com Mon Sep 1 09:35:20 1997 From: 00479486 at 22629.com (00479486 at 22629.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Your Web Page Message-ID: <319702170025.GAA08056@jtbill.com> Now you can submit your Web Page to over 620 Internet indexes in a few short minutes and watch your traffic soar! The Central Registry has helped thousands of sites like yours greatly improve the performance of their Web Page. The more indexes you are registered in, the more traffic your Web Page is going to receive. Being registered in "the top" indexes is not enough. Why not have your Web Page registered in every index throughout the world that will generate extra traffic for you? The Central Registry is the leader in Web Page registration and promotion. We are the oldest and most well established service of this type on the Internet. We process more Web Page registrations than all of our competitors combined. The Central Registry is the only service that dynamically asks you for the exact same information each index requests, assuring accurate and thorough registration. Unlike most services, we do not exclude indexes with larger input forms and various detailed categories. No other registration service can compare to our value, professionalism and performance. Please come visit our web page today at: http://www.CentralRegistry.com and see what some of our customers have had to say about the overwhelming traffic increases they have seen as a result of being registered everywhere. Thank you. Sincerely, The Central Registry http://www.CentralRegistry.com From ahoier at juno.com Mon Sep 1 01:06:00 1997 From: ahoier at juno.com (CYPHER ? PUNK) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:06:00 +0800 Subject: I NEED SPAM!!!!! IT GIVES ME ENERGY!!!!! In-Reply-To: <19970831.135647.9558.12.ahoier@juno.com> Message-ID: <19970901.034852.3638.18.ahoier@juno.com> Could Someone on this list e-mail me some SPAM to ahoier at juno.com ASAP Im looosiiing poooooooooowwerrr!!!!!!! ME!!!!!!!!!!!! >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 >MessageID: HyRMcbGm8DN7BxUVL/6EunpyDLmTX8Wj > >iQA/AwUBNAneIl7MfpC8gEO7EQIOIgCeM6giFdXXS1Idut3q941mSEEc8CAAoITk >142XgrvDAUe3CMwH4jTRiJZi >=jvrj >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From k.p at snet.net Mon Sep 1 02:41:59 1997 From: k.p at snet.net (Dave K-P) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:41:59 +0800 Subject: Crypto FAQs Message-ID: <199709011328.JAA00386@crypt.com> Someone wrote: > Dose Cypherpunks have an FAQ? and dose it need one? There is a "cypherpunk FAQ", but you'd be better off reading the sci.crypt FAQs first. Consult your favorite search engine for locations. From k.p at snet.net Mon Sep 1 04:31:08 1997 From: k.p at snet.net (Dave K-P) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:31:08 +0800 Subject: International Relations Message-ID: <199709011518.LAA00645@crypt.com> "[I]t seems pretty clear that no civilized people will ever again permit its government to enter into a competitive armament race." -- Nicholas Murray Butler (President of Columbia University), quoted in the Literary Digest, October 17, 1914 From geezbox at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 04:45:20 1997 From: geezbox at hotmail.com (Harry Regan) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:45:20 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <19970901113516.25236.qmail@hotmail.com> Information, please! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lutz at taranis.iks-jena.de Mon Sep 1 04:49:37 1997 From: lutz at taranis.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:49:37 +0800 Subject: Adding Memory to the Net In-Reply-To: <19970831181542.2052.qmail@zipcon.net> Message-ID: * Mike Duvos wrote: >The basic idea here is to add memory to the Net in a reliable >way, so that the Net provides memory services in the way it now >universally provides data transport services. The Net would then Try to find SMMP, Simple Memory Managment Ptotocol. Dejanews (old database) may help. Originated to Kristian Koehntopp. From remailer at bureau42.ml.org Mon Sep 1 05:30:05 1997 From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:30:05 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: Rabid Wombat wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > > "Smak" delivered an encrypted CD containing over 100,000 stolen > > credit card numbers. After the validity of the credit card information > > was confirmed through decryption of the data on the CD, "Smak" was > > taken into custody by the FBI. > > > > And the 100,000 people were immediately notified that their credit > > cards had been compromised? I fucking doubt it. Better to screw over > > 100,000 citizen-units than expose the incompetence of a few companies > > and the government's fight against strong encryption and computer > > security. > > I was recently notified by a bank that issued one of my credit cards that > my card number had been sold, along with thousands of other account > numbers, to an undercover FBI agent. The bank canceled my account, opened > a new one, and overnighted a replacement card. No big deal, and no loss > to me. > > OTOH, it *might* have been in response to a different incident. Keep > those paranoid rants coming. Why don't you tell us the name of the company that has such lousy computer security that your credit was placed in jepoardy, so that we can decide if we want to avoid doing business with them? RantMonger From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Sep 1 06:41:57 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:41:57 +0800 Subject: Carding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > "Smak" delivered an encrypted CD containing over 100,000 stolen > > > credit card numbers. After the validity of the credit card information > > > was confirmed through decryption of the data on the CD, "Smak" was > > > taken into custody by the FBI. > > > > > > And the 100,000 people were immediately notified that their credit > > > cards had been compromised? I fucking doubt it. Better to screw over > > > 100,000 citizen-units than expose the incompetence of a few companies > > > and the government's fight against strong encryption and computer > > > security. > > > > I was recently notified by a bank that issued one of my credit cards that > > my card number had been sold, along with thousands of other account > > numbers, to an undercover FBI agent. The bank canceled my account, opened > > a new one, and overnighted a replacement card. No big deal, and no loss > > to me. > > > > OTOH, it *might* have been in response to a different incident. Keep > > those paranoid rants coming. > > Why don't you tell us the name of the company that has such lousy > computer security that your credit was placed in jepoardy, so that we > can decide if we want to avoid doing business with them? Waitaminute. If your credit card number is stolen and misused, and you follow the procedures, your credit is not affected. The financial institutions eat the losses from fraud (humongous), then pass them on cardholders and merchants. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU Mon Sep 1 07:04:15 1997 From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 22:04:15 +0800 Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199709011350.GAA06757@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) The remailer list here has been out of date for some time, but should be up to date now. I'm still working on updating the web page. Last update: Mon 1 Sep 97 6:49:30 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mix mixmaster at remail.obscura.com +++++++**+*+ 18:43 99.99% weasel config at weasel.owl.de --+++-++++- 1:36:13 99.95% bureau42 remailer at bureau42.ml.org -------..--- 5:27:26 99.94% nym config at nym.alias.net +#+###* #### 1:28 99.82% cyber alias at alias.cyberpass.net +**++* *+*** 11:22 99.68% winsock winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net ---+..----- 6:54:29 99.64% neva remailer at neva.org ** +#*+-+*#+ 17:59 99.55% squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de ------_---- 3:56:24 99.35% reno middleman at cyberpass.net + +- -+++..+ 4:18:57 99.02% hera goddesshera at juno.com ---.------- 8:07:05 98.39% arrid arrid at juno.com ----+ --- - 5:23:18 96.51% redneck config at anon.efga.org #*#+*#* - 36:25 95.93% cracker remailer at anon.efga.org ++++++++ 38:21 90.88% jam remailer at cypherpunks.ca ++++++++ 51:19 88.75% replay remailer at replay.com +** +*** 11:21 88.18% valdeez valdeez at juno.com -------- 7:02:22 63.69% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From jya at pipeline.com Mon Sep 1 08:00:21 1997 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 23:00:21 +0800 Subject: Patel's Opinion Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970901143843.00757e30@pop.pipeline.com> John and Stanton, Greg Broiles fedexed us a clear, scannable copy of Patel's August 25 Opinion, which we've digitized and formatted, in case EFF wants to use it to supplement the admirable volunteer effort: http://jya.com/bernstein-III.htm (93K) From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Mon Sep 1 09:48:02 1997 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:48:02 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote: > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > > > > "Smak" delivered an encrypted CD containing over 100,000 stolen > > > credit card numbers. After the validity of the credit card information > > > was confirmed through decryption of the data on the CD, "Smak" was > > > taken into custody by the FBI. > > > > > > And the 100,000 people were immediately notified that their credit > > > cards had been compromised? I fucking doubt it. Better to screw over > > > 100,000 citizen-units than expose the incompetence of a few companies > > > and the government's fight against strong encryption and computer > > > security. > > > > I was recently notified by a bank that issued one of my credit cards that > > my card number had been sold, along with thousands of other account > > numbers, to an undercover FBI agent. The bank canceled my account, opened > > a new one, and overnighted a replacement card. No big deal, and no loss > > to me. > > > > OTOH, it *might* have been in response to a different incident. Keep > > those paranoid rants coming. > > Why don't you tell us the name of the company that has such lousy > computer security that your credit was placed in jepoardy, so that we > can decide if we want to avoid doing business with them? > Based on what I've seen so far, the account numbers were more likely to have been obtained from the databases of merchants than from banks. If the bank was cracked, there would have been many more card numbers from one bank on the CD, rather than a distribution of account numbers issued by many institutions. I doubt that someone managed to crack a dozens of banks, and then took only a few thousand numbers from each. It is more likely that "widgets R us" was compromised, resulting in a few thousand accounts from each of the major banks. I suppose I could look back over a few year's worth of statements, and tell you where *not* to shop, but I'd be listing all merchants I'd done business with as being equally guilty, when it is very likely that only one was compromised. My guess is that Smak had inside access to a particular merchant's system, but I've been wrong before. -r.w. From brianbr at together.net Mon Sep 1 10:24:15 1997 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:24:15 +0800 Subject: Encouraging News - France Message-ID: <199709011716.NAA01820@mx02.together.net> From >Encryption technology: French boost for internet software >MONDAY SEPTEMBER 1 1997 >By Andrew Jack in Paris >France is poised to liberalise regulations on computer encryption >technology which could boost its efforts to encourage development of the >internet. >The government is shortly to publish an official decree which would for >the first time allow easy access to and use of software which encodes >sensitive information in order to protect it from unauthorised >interception. >The move could prove especially important for companies attempting to >sell products and services over the internet, but which have been >concerned about their protection of credit card numbers and other >financial information provided by their customers. > >France remains one of the few western countries to impose such >restrictive legislation on encryption, with only certain categories of >users currently allowed to use the software. >Other nations which continue to restrict the use of cryptography tightly >in order to control the transfer of sensitive information include Iraq, >Libya, Singapore and China. >While many more countries - including EU member states and the US - >restrict the export of sophisticated encryption technology as a product >important to national security, most have more liberal guidelines >concerning the circulation and application of software within their own >borders. >The new decree in France follows a 1996 telecommunications regulation >law, which opened the way to liberalisation of encryption software but >which has so far not led to publication of any details of how the >measures could be applied. >The latest move comes after Lionel Jospin, the prime minister, made a >speech last week highlighting the "delay" in France of uptake of the >internet and promising initiatives to give it a higher priority. >--------- Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys - Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key" "One of the deep mysteries to me is our logo, the symbol of lust and knowledge, bitten into, all crossed with in the colors of the rainbow in the wrong order. You couldn't dream of a more appropriate logo: lust, knowledge, hope, and anarchy." -- Gassee - Apple Logo From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Sep 1 10:32:11 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:32:11 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rabid Wombat writes: > Based on what I've seen so far, the account numbers were more likely to > have been obtained from the databases of merchants than from banks. If > the bank was cracked, there would have been many more card numbers from > one bank on the CD, rather than a distribution of account numbers issued > by many institutions. I doubt that someone managed to crack a dozens of > banks, and then took only a few thousand numbers from each. It is more > likely that "widgets R us" was compromised, resulting in a few thousand > accounts from each of the major banks. A couple of years ago "hackers" got hold of the credit card numbers being billed by panix.com, a (lousy) NYC ISP. of course that was much less3 than a hundred thousand cards :-) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Sep 1 10:44:48 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:44:48 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199709011734.TAA24922@basement.replay.com> At 05:55 PM 8/26/97 +1000, A non-stoned David Formosa wrote: >I take a second sample from our plunger wealding cop, its the blood of a >homospapain i.e. a human. > >The cop can't become inhuman by any action thay take. Humans can be very kind and polite, or they can just be murdering assholes. So in Dave's defense, despite the fact he made an argumant sounding like he was on crack, I have to say that plungering someone is part of human nature. We're all capable of things along that line, and anyone who thinks otherwise must have forgotten about the holocaust. Does that make it any less wrong to do that? Fuck no. That cop should still go to prison for life, at least. From tcmay at got.net Mon Sep 1 11:24:50 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:24:50 +0800 Subject: Encouraging News - France In-Reply-To: <199709011716.NAA01820@mx02.together.net> Message-ID: I'm extremely skeptical that France will truly liberalize crypto use by its citizen-units. Rather, I expect they will just be falling in line with the OECD/Wasenaar/New World Order "trusted third party" key recovery approach that the United States, Britain, and other European and Asian countries are behind-the-scenes adopting. At 10:16 AM -0700 9/1/97, Brian B. Riley wrote: > From > >>Encryption technology: French boost for internet software > >>MONDAY SEPTEMBER 1 1997 >>By Andrew Jack in Paris > >>France is poised to liberalise regulations on computer encryption >>technology which could boost its efforts to encourage development of the >>internet. Does anyone think this means: "Hey, use whatever crypto program you want. Use something SDECE cannot break!"? Given the monopoly France Telecom has on Internet access, I'd expect a "solution" that involves FT issuing keys, or something equally brain dead as that. (I gave an invited talk on crypto anarchy at a conference in Monaco a few years ago, and spoke to several France Telecom representatives. They made it quite clear that France was not going to tolerate independent ISPs, and that France Telecom would administer any crypto ever to be used by the populace. Maybe this policy has changed, but I doubt it. Whatever France's charms, open debate is not one of them.) >>The government is shortly to publish an official decree which would for >>the first time allow easy access to and use of software which encodes >>sensitive information in order to protect it from unauthorised >>interception. I'll bet 1000 francs that this will not mean citizens can use PGP openly. (I know some Frenchies who are already using PGP, of course.) >>The new decree in France follows a 1996 telecommunications regulation >>law, which opened the way to liberalisation of encryption software but >>which has so far not led to publication of any details of how the >>measures could be applied. One wag put it this way: "Any Frenchman may apply for a permit to use strong cryptography. The same way any Frenchman may apply for a permit for an Exocet missile." --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Mon Sep 1 11:29:40 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:29:40 +0800 Subject: Encouraging News - France Message-ID: I should've added to my last post that not only am I skeptical that citizens in France will be able to use truly strong, unbreakable crypto, but that the "encouraging news" is quite likely just the opposite. No solution which involves key escrow or "mandatory voluntary" key recovery is "encouraging." The French do not have a solid basis for protection of free speech, as the United States (mostly) does. We Americans can point to the First Amendment and pretty much nuke any proposals to place prior restraint on the forms or content of speech, including the languages we speak to each other in, whether Navaho, Urdu, or PGP. This is why so many of us are opposed to SAFE, which for the sake of eased export requirements would infringe on domestic use of crypto. (By felonizing crypto use in conjunction with a crime, and that crime could be any one of thousands of crimes on the books.) So, I doubt strongly the news out of France is "encouraging." Rather, I expect France is about to fall into line with the OECD agreements on escrowed encryption. As so many Cypherpunks apparently like to say, "Feh." --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From yourfriend at tele.ntnu.no Tue Sep 2 02:43:35 1997 From: yourfriend at tele.ntnu.no (yourfriend at tele.ntnu.no) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: per inquiry advertising Message-ID: <199709020934.LAA20764@telesun> Per Inquiry Advertising Why pay For Space And Circulation When You Can Get It Free? Your product, service, business opportunity or 900# can be continuously publicized in various National Print Media and you simply pay for your responses on a Per Inquiry basis. But wait, there's more! You'll get free copywriting service. Yes, because we want to generate as many qualified responses or 900# calls for you as possible, you'll get on-target ads written by direct marketing professionals on our staff who have decades of experience. Simply Call: 1-201-991-3184 Be sure to ask for: Info Kit #91005 For full details without cost or obligation, call now. To speak to a company representative live, call 10 am to 5 pm EST Monday-Saturday. Sorry, this program is only available in the U.S. and Canada. Ideal For: Publicizing & Brokering #900 Lines - Business Products & Services MLM's - Distributor Recruiting - Financial Offers - Consumer Products & Services RS-Independent Distributor! From jya at pipeline.com Mon Sep 1 12:09:42 1997 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:09:42 +0800 Subject: Encouraging News - France Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970901185733.0083cff4@pop.pipeline.com> Tim May wrote: > >I should've added to my last post that not only am I skeptical that >citizens in France will be able to use truly strong, unbreakable crypto, >but that the "encouraging news" is quite likely just the opposite. > >No solution which involves key escrow or "mandatory voluntary" key recovery >is "encouraging." Tim's nailed this. Expect the US, and other Wassenaar signators, to announce similar regulations ostensibly in support of privacy and commerce that will include GAK to assure public and national security. This is House National Security Committee chair Solomon's position, the next stop for SAFE, and as TM notes, where it will be further eviscerated to fit TLA requirements. This is the public policy agenda of the McCain-Kerry Bill. This is BXA's goal in the current draft regs circulating for comment, and probably what's coming in the Wassenaar implementation, while it engenders complicity from commercial license seekers with one-by-one approvals. This is DoJ's argument in Bernstein for controlling object code while avowing total support for academic freedom and freedom to publish print in deference to the 1st Amend. It looks as though the fall crypto campaign is about to open with a rush, worldwide. Stories being fed to journalists, draft regs being dealt to collaborators, license approvals for sure bettors. Up-yours to all the rest who don't want to, in smooth-tongue Stewart Baker's phrase, "French kiss NSA/BXA." From stewarts at ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 1 12:51:22 1997 From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:51:22 +0800 Subject: UNSAFE Re: Encouraging News - France In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970901122901.03012ae8@popd.ix.netcom.com> At 11:25 AM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >This is why so many of us are opposed to SAFE, which for the sake of eased >export requirements would infringe on domestic use of crypto. (By >felonizing crypto use in conjunction with a crime, and that crime could be >any one of thousands of crimes on the books.) According to some article on some mailing list, SAFE appears to be dead; the chairman of one of the relevant committees believes too strongly in "National Security" to be willing to let it out. On the other hand, if it does get out, the ACLU and CDT lobbied some words into it that would at least limit the use-a-crypto penalties to crimes that are Federal criminal felonies, so jaywalking while using a cellphone doesn't get hit (unlike jaywalking while carrying an assault BBgun.) It's still seriously wrong, of course, but at least the number of cases that it applies to is substantially reduced, though the number of Federal felonies keeps increasing at an appalling rate. If SAFE does go through, I'm sure someone will get busted for selling drugs while using a cellphone, with the prosecution arguing that since the cellphone is capable of interstate phone calls, the drug deal is a Federal crime and not just state, and therefore the use-crypto-go-to-jail applies... # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.) From leo at supersex.com Mon Sep 1 12:53:57 1997 From: leo at supersex.com (Leo Papandreou) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:53:57 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: <19970901113516.25236.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Harry Regan wrote: > Information, please! Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From Amanda at aol.com Tue Sep 2 03:54:17 1997 From: Amanda at aol.com (Amanda at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Best Wishes Message-ID: <472649088220Unn93756@pagenet.com> CONTINUE READING ONLY IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY THAT IS ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED TO MAKE MONEY!!! You are about to make from $5,000 to $50,000 in less than 90 days! Don't Stop Reading!!! Read the enclosed program, THEN READ IT AGAIN!... The enclosed information is something that I was reluctant to try and almost tossed aside. Fortunately, I re-read everything and gave it a second thought. After reading it several times to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. It is a MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON! I took a pencil and paper and figured it out. There is absolutely no way I wouldn't at least get my money back and I was almost guaranteed to make from $5,000 to $50,000. After determining that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided that THERE WAS NOTHING TO LOSE AND A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY TO GAIN! Read the following description of how the program achieves instant success: Initially, I sent out 5,000 e-mails. I obtained a list for $35.00 from a company mentioned in one of the reports that I received by responding to the program. The great thing about e-mail is that I didn't need any money for printing or to send out the initial mailing! E-mail is free. The only cost is the pennies it cost to fill each order. In less than 1 week, I was receiving orders for Report #1. Before long, I had received 22 orders for report #1. When you read the guarantee in the program, you will see that to be guaranteed $50,000 "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15-20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS! IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS. Since I had received 22 orders for Report #1, the first step in making $50,000 in 20-90 days was done. Shortly thereafter, I had received 143 orders for report #2. In the guarantee, it states that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR MORE ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS OR YOU SHOULD SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS." ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 YOU SHOULD SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS. SIT BACK AND RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL! Well, I had 43 more orders for report #2 than I needed, so I relaxed. With my E-Mailing of 5,000 I have received $52,000... ALAN B. Philadelphia, PA Remember that opportunities like this don't work if you don't try them. Also, it is very important to follow the program exactly. Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. This could cost you a lot of money in lost orders. You don't have to send out 5,000 e-mails if you do not want to. E-mail everyone you know, 50, 100 or so people. We recommend that you send out at least 1,000. Once you obtain a list (or use the search engines on your Internet browser) you can send 1,000 e-mails in about 2-3 hours depending on your modem speed. KEEP IN MIND, IF YOUR GOAL IS $50,000... Always follow the guarantee15-20 orders for report #1 and 100 or more orders for Report #2 and you will make $50,000. A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: By the time you have read the enclosed information and reports, you should have determined that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that I had always done but they were not working. Following the old saying "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER", I determined that traditional methods of making money will not allow you to "get rich" or make significant advances up the ladder of success, inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you a LARGE amount of money with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can use the money to pay off bills, start another business or whatever you want. I should also point out that I will not see a penny of your money, nor will anyone else that has provided a testimonial for the program. I have already made over FOUR MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program to pursue other interests. By the spring of next year, I wish to market my concepts through a partnership with America On Line. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED it works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to email a copy of this exciting program to everyone that you can think of. One of the people that you e-mail to could send out 50,000 programs and your name will be on every one of them. Remember the more that you send out, the more potential customers you will reach. Before you consider deleting the program from your hard drive, get out a pencil and figure out the WORST possible response. You will see that no matter how you figure, YOU WILL MAKE MONEY... Paul Johnson, Raleigh HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU MONEY! Let's say that you decide to start with 2,000. Assume that you send out 2,000 programs. Nationwide, email response averages between 2%-5%, but lest assume the worst and say that your mailing receives .5% response. That's 10 orders for report #1. Remember, most people are greedy, they send out more than 2,000 programs-5,000-50,000 but once again, lets assume the worst and say that those 10 people send out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000 programs. Out of those, .5% or 100 people respond and order report #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. Out of those, .5% or 1,000 Order report #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 each for a total of 2,000,000. The .5%response adds up to 10,000 orders for report #4. Add it up... That's 10,000 $5 bills for you for report #4 or $50,000, 1,000 $5 bills for report #3 or $5,000, 100 $5 bills for report #2 or $500, and 10 $5 bills for report #1 or $50. $50,000+$5,000+$500+$50= $55,550!!! Sound unbelievable??? That's how multilevel marketing works...and remember, this was a "WORST CASE" example. THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL MONEYMAKING OPPORTUNITY. Multi-Level Marketing is being taught at HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL. INSTRUCTIONS STEP (1) Order all 4 reports listed by name and number. Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the 4 names listed on the next page. For each report, send $5 cash along with a self addressed, stamped envelope (Business Size #10) to the person listed for the specific report. International orders should include $1 extra for postage. Remember that those received without self addressed stamped envelopes will not be sent. It is essential that you specify the name and number of the report requested to the person. You will need all 4 reports because you will be re-printing and re-selling them. Do not alter the names or sequence in any way, and ALWAYS provide same day service on all orders. STEP (2) Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving the one that was there down to Report #2. Drop the name and address under report #2 down to Report #3 moving the one that was there down to report #4. The name and address that was under report #4 is dropped from the list and this party is no doubt on their way to the BANK. MAKE SURE YOU TYPE EACH NAME AND ADDRESS ACCURATELY! AND ABSOLUTELY DO NOT MIX UP THE NAME AND REPORT POSITIONS! STEP (3) Having made the required changes to the list, save it and all of the attached information as a text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever email program that you like. Again, Report #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk emailing and acquiring email lists. STEP (4) Email a copy of the entire program (all of it is very important) to everyone whose email address you can get your hands on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage them to take advantage of this fabulous opportunity. That's what I did and they love me now more than ever. You can get email lists from companies on the Internet who specialize in this-more info will be included the reports. These lists are cheap, 10,000 names for about $35.00. IMPORTANT: You will not get good response if you use an old list, so request a new list. You will find out where to get these lists when you purchase all 4 reports. OR, if your needs are small, use your browser's search engines and you should be able to send about 1,000 programs in just a few hours at absolutely no cost for addresses, postage or anything. Just remember to send only 5 or 10 at a time or the header list at the top of the message will be too long and none will read it (This will be explained in one of the reports). OR...if you are more ambitious, one of the reports contains information on obtaining a bulk email list and bulk mailing to 10,000, 20,000 or even 100,000! REQUIRED REPORTS SEND A STAMPED, SELF-ADDRESSED ENVELOPE ALONG WITH $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT AND REQUEST THE REPORT BY NUMBER AND NAME ***REPORT #1 "How to make $250,000 through multilevel sales" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: DELCOM P.O. Box 916 Walnut Cove, NC 27052 ***REPORT #2 "Major Corporations and Multilevel Sales" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: IMC Corp. P.O. Box 483 Newton Square, PA 19073 ***REPORT #3 "Sources for the Best Mailing Lists" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Last Creation 103 Jefferson Circle Charles Town, WV 25414 ***REPORT #4 "Evaluating Multi-level Sales Plans" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: GMA PO Box 16182 Philadelphia, PA 19114-0182 CONCLUSION You can use the money you earn with this program to start a business, get out of debt or JUST SPEND IT. If you do not take advantage of this opportunity, you will have missed out. Please feel free to write the sender of this information and you will get a prompt reply. You will be offering a legitimate product to people. After they receive the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. The product is a series of 4 Financial and Business Reports. The information in these reports will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, it will help you in any other business decisions that you will make in years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint and resell the reports. The one and two page reports can easily be reproduced at a copy center for about 3 cents per copy. Best wishes and Good Luck! TIPS FOR SUCCESS: Send for your 4 reports immediately so that you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive the $5 for the report, you MUST send out the report! Title 18, sections 1302 and 1341 of the Postal Code state that "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED". WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO COME: 1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire. 2. Get a post office box if you prefer. 3. Edit the names and addresses on the program, specifically following the instructions. 4. Obtain as many email addresses as you possibly can until you receive the information on how to obtain an emailing list. 5. Decide on the number of programs that you wish to send out. Remember, the more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make. 6. After mailing the programs, be ready to fill orders. 7. Copy the 4 reports so that you are able to send them out as soon as you receive the order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS THAT YOU RECEIVE 8. Make certain that the letter and reports are neat and legible. YOUR GUARANTEE The check point for the program is simply this: You must receive 15-20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must, if you don't, email out more programs until you do. 2 weeks later, you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, email more programs until you do. Once you receive 100 requests for REPORT # 2 sit back and relax, you are going to make $50,000-it is a mathematically proven guarantee! ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Received: from mrin39.mail.aol.com (mrin39.mail.aol.com [152.163.116.77]) by mrin37.mx.aol.com with SMTP; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:20:03 -0400 Received: from ha1.ntr.net (ha1.ntr.net [206.112.0.10]) by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id SAA06270; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ntr.net (s5.wirecom.com [206.162.54.5]) by ha1.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with SMTP id SAA16995; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:19:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Delcon at Aol.com Received: from Mailhost.AOL.COM by Danny365 at Aol.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA07455 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:19:50 -0600 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 97 18:19:50 EST To: Tdave at juno.com Subject: Members at aol.com Message-ID: <187705689444 Frr64353 at AOL.com> Reply-To: Mailhost.Member at Aol.com X-UIDL: 58585858585858585858585858585845 Comments: Authenticated sender is From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Sep 1 13:40:19 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:19 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Leo Papandreou writes: > On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Harry Regan wrote: > > > Information, please! > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. Don't "escrow" your keys. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From fabrice at math.Princeton.EDU Mon Sep 1 14:33:30 1997 From: fabrice at math.Princeton.EDU (Fabrice Planchon) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 05:33:30 +0800 Subject: Encouraging News - France In-Reply-To: <199709011716.NAA01820@mx02.together.net> Message-ID: <19970901172641.64155@math.princeton.edu> On lun 01 sept 1997 � 11:18:10AM -0700, Tim May wrote: > > I'm extremely skeptical that France will truly liberalize crypto use by its > citizen-units. Rather, I expect they will just be falling in line with the > OECD/Wasenaar/New World Order "trusted third party" key recovery approach That's probably true. Given the recent history on the subject in France, I doubt they would do a 180 degree turn... > Does anyone think this means: "Hey, use whatever crypto program you want. > Use something SDECE cannot break!"? Update, SDECE is now called DGSE ;-) Besides, they are our CIA, and therefore not supposed to act within France. But I guess the DST (the french FBI) would handle matters like that. So far France doesn't have a (known) equivalent of the NSA. A department controlled by the prime minister (the SGDN) handles the authorization process for crypto usage, and is assisted for technical issues by the SCSSI (which usually says "no way" for strong cryto). Now, the army has also its own cryto units, and they have quite knowledgeable people... (have a look at http://www.dmi.ens.fr/equipes/grecc/, and all these "ingenieurs de l'Armement" which are linked a way or another to this lab) > Given the monopoly France Telecom has on Internet access, I'd expect a > "solution" that involves FT issuing keys, or something equally brain dead > as that. It's not entirely true that FT has a monopoly. They do have a monopoly on the phone lines, yes, which means of course that they can (and do) dictate their own terms to any french internet provider. This won't last forever, as starting january 1st this monopoly will end. This means anybody will be free to switch to another phone provider (and yes, there will be a few of them, which have installed networks, and which currently can only offer phone services to compagnies, say to link to physical locations in France, and are eager to enter the market targeting individuals). Furthermore, it is untrue to say "FT=french governement". Actually, most senior officials at FT wanted the company to be sold to private interests, because they felt they would defend their dominant position better this way. The new governement stopped the process, but anyway FT has its own agenda, which may differ from the gov vues. Of course, this doesn't mean anything good to the end customer, the average french guy who would like to use the internet. FT is catching up on the subject, but they did everything to slow down the internet progression in France, fearing it would dammage their "minitel", which generates high revenues. > (I gave an invited talk on crypto anarchy at a conference in Monaco a few > years ago, and spoke to several France Telecom representatives. They made > it quite clear that France was not going to tolerate independent ISPs, and > that France Telecom would administer any crypto ever to be used by the > populace. Maybe this policy has changed, but I doubt it. Whatever France's > charms, open debate is not one of them.) You said everything when saying "a few years ago". I guess they woke up on these issues, and now their key problem is more "how to keep making the huge profits we make currently on the phone when we will have competitors next january". Somehow internet and use of crypto aren't that important in respect to that, even if anybody with half a brain can see how everything is connected. Besides, I will give you an example which illustrate how sometimes FT can be driven by market law rather than gov interests. A few months ago, they started to sell cell-phone cards, with a prepaid amount of time on it. these were anonymous, (they wouldn't ask for an ID or anything), and everything went fine for a couple of weeks, until somebody in the police realized they wouldn't be able to link calls like that to a poor soul. So FT got an order from the govt, and now they ask for an ID when purchasing. Now, I don't know if any of the other 2 cell-phone operators in France offer the same kind of card. I think they don't, unfortunatly, but if they decide to do so, it would take more than a phone call from the governement to make them comply with the police concerns. Well, I hope so... > I'll bet 1000 francs that this will not mean citizens can use PGP openly. > (I know some Frenchies who are already using PGP, of course.) The thing is, currently many individuals use it, for e-mail or file encryption, and I seriously doubt that anybody would be prosecuted just for that. But they (LEAs, gvt, you name it) know that it's a Damocles sword they can use at will. And they want to keep it that way. Unlike in the US, it's rather difficult to challenge a law in France, the way Berstein or Karn or Junger are doing. Therefore the current situation is unlikely to change in the near future. > >>The new decree in France follows a 1996 telecommunications regulation > >>law, which opened the way to liberalisation of encryption software but > >>which has so far not led to publication of any details of how the > >>measures could be applied. Well, mainly because they don't know themselves how to enforce their laws. Or simply to interpret them. > One wag put it this way: "Any Frenchman may apply for a permit to use > strong cryptography. The same way any Frenchman may apply for a permit for > an Exocet missile." Old technology. We know better ;-) you don't want to apply for a permit. You just use it. And if later LEAs targets you as a drug dealer, you will get 20 years for drug offences and 3 more months for crypto use. So as an individual, you don't care, but by doing things this way cryto won't be widespred soon, and large corporations or companies won't "just use it" the way a single guy will. Don't misunderstand me, it sucks, but at least when you are in France you don't expect to wake up in front of a SWAT. F. -- Fabrice Planchon (ph) 609/258-6495 Applied Math Program, 210 Fine Hall (fax) 609/258-1735 From azur at netcom.com Mon Sep 1 15:14:06 1997 From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:14:06 +0800 Subject: The End of Politics Message-ID: The End of Politics Every 500 years or so Western history seems to reach a turning point: the founding of democracy (Athens, c. 500 B.C.), the death to Christ, the fall of the Roman Empire and beginning of the Dark Ages (c. 500 A.D.), the ascendancy of the Catholic Church and beginning to the Middle Ages (c. 1000 A.D.) and the Renaissance (c. 1500 A.D.). These points of inflection are often evidenced by a dramatic raise in corruption and lack of faith in institutions. At the start of the 16th century few could have imagined a secular Europe. Though its rampant decadence and debauchery was widely known, the Catholic Church permeated almost every aspect of life and its economic tentacles denominated all commerce. Yet by 1600 many city states had thrown off the ecclesiastical yolk and Protestantism was born. With the near constant stream of corruption revelations and the inability of the political process within the nation-states to deal with important social issues, it isn't hard to see the reflections in current events. Many claim our nation has diverged very far from its founding roots and, through expansive Supreme Court, Executive and Legislative Branch actions, the Feds have laid claim to almost every facet of American life not specifically nailed down in the Constitution (and many we thought were). Two turning points were catalyzed by military technology (metal armor and gunpowder) which dramatically altered the economic scale and payback for violence. We may be nearing the end of another such military technology cycle, which for the last 200 years favored those states which could muster the largest economies for warfare. With the fall of the Soviet Union it is obvious that democracies were able to extort more GNP through taxes than the communist could through outright state ownership of property. However, the cost of producing weapons of mass destruction (especially chemical and biological) has fallen dramatically and is now within reach not only of small nations but increasingly individuals. If one accepts that the wielding of such power has been instrumental in shaping world politics then the conclusion is almost inescapable that dominance by nation-states will be on the wane. The last turning point was also catalyzed by information technology: the moveable type printing press, the first mass-production technology. By 1500 hundreds of European printing presses had churned out over 20 million books. Early expectations were that the press would reinforce the use of Latin and the Church, but most Europeans were monoglot and few authors could compose satisfactory new Latin works. The rest, as they say, is history. Many have compared the Internet with the press and it's not unfair to characterize it as nothing short of an information revolution. The victory of the Western democracies over their Communist opponents was a political watershed. With no Soviet bogeyman to wave in front of voters, and the need to maintain their self-importance, politicians have had to reach into the bag for new villains. They have invoked the new Four Horseman (terrorists, pornographers, money-launderers and drugs-dealers ) as a threat with which only they can effectively deal. Only they can't and they know it. These issues are either outside their control, no matter what restrictive laws they pass, or of their own making. The Internet will play a key part in disintermediating governments and markets. To escape heavy regulatory burdens, significant information-based business, investments and individuals will become jurisdiction-less. With their ability to regulate and tax Internet commerce and content denied a major source of revenue will evaporate which be which cannot be replaced by sales and property taxes. This will spell the end of mass wealth redistribution and signal a massive global down-sizing of government. As the power of the nation-states to dictate world affairs slips, look for an eclipse of democracy and with it politics as we know it. Western thought is so infused with politics that few can imagine society without. Yet politics in the modern sense, the preoccupation with controlling and rationalizing the power of the state, is mainly a modern invention. It will end with the modern world just as the tangle of feudal duties and obligations which engrossed the attentions of people in the Middle Ages ended with the Middle Ages. --Steve From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Sep 1 15:21:08 1997 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:21:08 +0800 Subject: false spin on French Crypto news (was Re: Encouraging News - France) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709012034.VAA07567@server.test.net> Tim May writes: > I'm extremely skeptical that France will truly liberalize crypto use by its > citizen-units. Rather, I expect they will just be falling in line with the > OECD/Wasenaar/New World Order "trusted third party" key recovery approach > that the United States, Britain, and other European and Asian countries are > behind-the-scenes adopting. I think it's been mis-reported. My understanding of the situation in France is that the "crypto use" regulations have changed, or are changing at this moment. The change is from "no crypto without a permit" to "crypto provided it is GAKked". So, you guessed right. > >>The government is shortly to publish an official decree which would for > >>the first time allow easy access to and use of software which encodes > >>sensitive information in order to protect it from unauthorised > >>interception. > > I'll bet 1000 francs that this will not mean citizens can use PGP openly. > (I know some Frenchies who are already using PGP, of course.) Depends on your definition of openly. Jerome Thorel, at the time a French free-lance journalist, interviewed the head of SCSSI, he asked "can individuals use PGP?" and the answer was "if you asked us for permission we'd say no, but if you use it we won't do anything about it". Jerome had this revelvation as his .sig for a while. Jerome Thorel uses PGP. I usually encrypt email to him. > One wag put it this way: "Any Frenchman may apply for a permit to use > strong cryptography. The same way any Frenchman may apply for a permit for > an Exocet missile." That ties up with Jeromes interview with the SCSSI person. Adam -- Have you exported RSA today? From tcmay at got.net Mon Sep 1 16:19:36 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:19:36 +0800 Subject: The End of Politics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:08 PM -0700 9/1/97, Steve Schear wrote: > The End of Politics > >Every 500 years or so Western history seems to reach a turning point: the >founding of democracy (Athens, c. 500 B.C.), the death to Christ, the fall >of the Roman Empire and beginning of the Dark Ages (c. 500 A.D.), the >ascendancy of the Catholic Church and beginning to the Middle Ages (c. 1000 >A.D.) and the Renaissance (c. 1500 A.D.). I sure don't buy any analysis that starts with this kind of "periodicity analysis" (Fourier analysis of history?). Just for starters, these dates are highly arbitrary. The start of Roman influence in a major way was 100 B,C. or so, the death of that Jesus guy was a minor event (the real event was the rise of the Church, in Rome, during the next few centuries, and esp. with Constantine). And the "Dark Ages" were misnamed. Also, during these so-called Dark Ages, we saw Charlemagne, and, of course, Mohmammed. Circa 800 A.D. The Norman Conquest was 1066, the Crusades were circa 1150-1250 (I forget the exact dates), and so on. And the Enlightenment, c. 1700. And the American and French Revolutions. And the Industrial Age. And a huge amount of history, ups and downs, just in the last century. The dates you pick, -500, 0, 500, 1000, 1500 are artificial, selected to match a theory based on 500-year cycles. Kind of puts a crimp on the "500 year theory" doesn't it? One could just as easily write about a 400-year cycle with the last crest in 1800 (American and French Revolutions, etc.) and the next one in 2200. And it would still be bullshit. No offense meant to Steve, but this kind of analysis ranks up there with astrology, phrenology, and aptical foddering. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu Mon Sep 1 16:26:55 1997 From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:26:55 +0800 Subject: Hey In-Reply-To: <3405F0ED.5D84@toad.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970901163508.007aa450@popmail.firn.edu> :: Encrypted: PGP -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 MessageID: yV9u2hakLFv9/SGjemJH0AuGYsBQ1cOE hQCMA/HAD1cfk+qpAQQAwuEDcaGfi1QCu84QklmpWe0AtyQUKGvkIuT8cEXt/ePS G1QAGQBHNRPvsN92ORDxPY5K+JgeS4b8ZpRJ+C9pSFwtzJXyoSaPSWLVLe//GU4y H+yeO8kMmK2qbbthgDD1D/00sXbrQsqEbIyz2al/bRIFzalS8UHQg4Olg7hTjpGl AY608e0OyKO78dPdEGeRYH5PwW6BLgppULjR17+Puo0ukIqwcItJlYPx7K2AgNtA 9sDlymr5h+cMky+BbrFWoi8QZEBrHvhXckXuPWHDlrmxTzd362m2R9G3/4TLlMjK j6q2TD5DA0CT/g1ETK3J0y+7cFfuGp6oP2PhP27VCBW6maIp1Z35K3yNy7vytrTE qDuJtcF2lvDAYKBcKr0lk6fBuGfRRZge3ZlAOgo/t5KPSGou/KlkHb2eR20vWqUM Z2xcTkn5Y+ZJsPb/k9sOe8vKGK38IGYZdv2nj3k7MQvCIIuwAc37XIiC53mWAP8V mIISGuYa2DgcxkdEy/rW0vd3AbhRzNGHp4u4zpjK/r2kTDGYGBURZFv2dC24KmcT sgGYqYhYFY2/xmwiQgNKaRlMgrhRJZ8ytLxSCQts1pZhbImf2BFFBNshSIPUiZIn 4fEPvD0lgJjC7jkkwAjEfN3E8DSCORs7GzKY1/Psr5ZZkEKVezv2blL+5YjYff+H vfqgXkeGKOgXNUT1lNZZWA== =wuTx -----END PGP MESSAGE----- From anon at anon.efga.org Mon Sep 1 16:29:21 1997 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:29:21 +0800 Subject: None Message-ID: At 10:23 AM 8/29/97 +1000, you wrote: >The aol idiots are a joke right ?? Someone keeps faking the address ?? > >Or are aol'ers this stupid ?? If they are faking, it's a nice forgery. But I doubt it. AOLers are usually this dumb, while for some odd reasons, some smart AOLers exist. Of course, consider they aren't too smart if they stick with an Orwellian online service that treats it's customers like shit. AOLers, Rennie, are kinda like newborns, they make a hell of a lot of noise, but they don't know too much. From k.p at snet.net Mon Sep 1 16:44:45 1997 From: k.p at snet.net (Dave K-P) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:44:45 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709020326.XAA00192@crypt.com> > > > Information, please! > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > Don't "escrow" your keys. Don't take advice from strangers. From anon at anon.efga.org Mon Sep 1 16:47:50 1997 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:47:50 +0800 Subject: None Message-ID: Top 10 Ways to Make a Grouchy Old CypherPunk Smile -------------------------------------------------- #10) Find his shoes for him. #9) Buy Kent Crispin a Dr. Kevorkian gift-certificate. #8) Nuke Washington DC #7) Send ten copies of this back to Vulis. #6) Shoot a Fed. #5) Shoot David Downey. #4) Heavily spam the clueless number of AOLers asking to be on the list. #3) Hang a disemboweled Paul Pomes from a tree. #2) Prank call John Gilmore to tell him what a cocksucker he is. #1) [This space reserved for T.C. May] From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu Mon Sep 1 16:59:08 1997 From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:59:08 +0800 Subject: H/W v S/W encryption Constitutional challenge --The Next Generation Message-ID: <199709012349.TAA07450@www.video-collage.com> At 06:05 PM 8/29/97 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: ... > your suggestion of an interpretive language is a good idea if it > creates an easily understood body of code. perl? powerful, but > even more cryptic than C --sometimes I think perl is too powerful > . > ... What about Cobol. I hated it and have fortunately forgotten everything that I learned. ( hated having to make sure I had to start on the right space for this bit or that bit, it was my first experience with such constraints, I had to learn on a hobbled editor/compiler, the for sale version which was not included with the book cost more, I already had the computer theory basics and so didn't need to learn about I/O basics, basic diagram of computers, flow charts, etc., I hated trying to type in all that extra as I am a firm believer in the use the letters until you run out of letters for variable names school.) What I do remember was that it was described to us, (the class), as being designed so that it was an easy read. If you chose your variable names right, supposedly anyone could follow it. The language is compiled which means that although it might be harder to convince the judge that it is speach, it will run faster. The language is well distributed, so is about equal to C and others in that reguard. The language was originally popular due to the DOD, which required a Cobol compiler bwe available for every computer they bought for a while. (Oh, the history that you learn in Software Engineering Class.) This last fact makes it more of an insult to those who claim national security as the reason for suppression. Whatever the language, it would have to be well documented in the code so that a layman could follow it easily enough. If the language could be written in a scripting language designed for the average computer user, all the better. Could PGP5.0 be rewritten in Hypertalk for Hypercard for Macintosh? That language was designed to be readable by anyone. The program would be as slow as molassis, ten times longer in the source, but still. Merely my suggestion. I like C as well, though I'm very rusty, having not written anything of length since the end of the semester in which I took the class, and then no more then two pages of source per assignment. From nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com Mon Sep 1 17:20:14 1997 From: nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com (nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:20:14 +0800 Subject: Insight magazine - 8/25/97 and 9/1/97 cryptobits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <97Sep1.200149edt.32257@brickwall.ceddec.com> Arnaud DeBorchgrave had an editorial as the final word saying that there should be laws against cypherlaundering in the 8/25 insight (the one with the article on squalene being found in the gulf-war veterans). In the current (9/1) issue, apparently someone at commerce left with a few boxes with classified material including some documents saying which commercial encryption products the NSA could or could not break. --- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com --- From azur at netcom.com Mon Sep 1 17:55:18 1997 From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:55:18 +0800 Subject: The End of Politics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Tim May wrote: >>At 3:08 PM -0700 9/1/97, Steve Schear wrote: >> The End of Politics >> >>Every 500 years or so Western history seems to reach a turning point: the >>founding of democracy (Athens, c. 500 B.C.), the death to Christ, the fall >>of the Roman Empire and beginning of the Dark Ages (c. 500 A.D.), the >>ascendancy of the Catholic Church and beginning to the Middle Ages (c. 1000 >>A.D.) and the Renaissance (c. 1500 A.D.). > >I sure don't buy any analysis that starts with this kind of "periodicity >analysis" (Fourier analysis of history?). No doubt, with so few data points one cannot build a mathematically compelling case. > >Just for starters, these dates are highly arbitrary. The start of Roman >influence in a major way was 100 B,C. It may be somewhat self-serving but in light of the past few hundred years history, few (except Italians) would see the founding of Rome as significant as the invention of democracy. >or so, the death of that Jesus guy >was a minor event (the real event was the rise of the Church, in Rome, >during the next few centuries, I think you'd get some major disagreements with that one. >and esp. with Constantine). Many historians do not see Constantine's empire as truly the continuation of the Roman Empire per se, but that of the church (an event which as you point out began with Jesus). >And the "Dark Ages" were misnamed. True, but relatively unimportant. >I was talking more about the The Norman Conquest was 1066, Yes, enabled by amoured cavelry which by that date had transformed warfare. the Crusades were >circa 1150-1250 (I forget the exact dates), and so on. > >And the Enlightenment, c. 1700. And the American and French Revolutions. >And the Industrial Age. And a huge amount of history, ups and downs, just >in the last century. The dates you pick, -500, 0, 500, 1000, 1500 are >artificial, selected to match a theory based on 500-year cycles. Sure, but almost any attempt to impose a large-scale structure on history is likely to come under such critcism, just as theories to explain the evolution of the universe's large-scale structure can be shot full of holes by 'local' anomolies (the exception proves the rule). If one accepts that the socio- politico- economic history may have chaotic aspects (e.g., Asimov's pyscho-history) then large-scale structures may be fleetingly exist. The true test is whether such attempts help explain or predict. We'll have to wait a while for that ;-) --Steve From rah at shipwright.com Mon Sep 1 18:51:02 1997 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:51:02 +0800 Subject: Net Worth, net Work Message-ID: Now, kiddies, don't forget to swallow your milk before you read this. Don't want to blow it all out your nose... Cheers, Bob --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Agre To: rre at weber.ucsd.edu Subject: Net Worth, net Work Resent-From: rre at weber.ucsd.edu Reply-To: rre-maintainers at weber.ucsd.edu X-URL: http://communication.ucsd.edu/pagre/rre.html X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1664 X-Loop: rre at weber.ucsd.edu Precedence: list Resent-Sender: rre-request at weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help at weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:09:08 -0700 From: Susan Evoy Subject: Net Worth, Net Work (2)- with directions [...] Please feel free to forward this to colleagues who may be interested in the topics of this conference. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Computer Professionals for Social Responsibilty * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Net Worth, Net Work: Technology & Values for the Digital Age Saturday and Sunday October 4 & 5 University of California - Berkeley Dwinelle Hall The "information highway" as a business model has generated major questions concerning privacy, security and free speech. It's clear that digitization does more than just turn analog activities into ones and zeroes. Many aspects of our society are greatly affected -- how we conduct business and how we work. This conference will focus on the burgeoning digital economy, especially its impact on wealth and jobs. We are moving into a new era for the workplace and some believe that we are reaching "the end of work," as we know it. This change has been compared by some to the social impact of the industrial revolution. The "digital revolution" is leading to both predictable and unforeseen transformations. Net Worth, Net Work: Technology & Values for the Digital Age will explore the many aspects of this epic social transformation. THE CONFERENCE AGENDA PANELS: Saturday, October 4 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. THE TECHNOLOGIES OF RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS What are the technologies that will make digital commerce work in a socially responsible manner? Nathaniel Borenstein of First Virtual and a panel of digital commerce experts will present an overview of the tools of the digital age and freewheeling discussion of their responsible use. ACCESS FOR ALL New technologies are rapidly changing what people need to know to compete effectively in the job market. It is increasingly evident that the technology revolution threatens to leave whole populations behind --despite improved access to computers in our communities. Many predict the long-term result will be a new generation of Americans mired in low-paying, menial jobs. This panel, organized by Madeline Stanionis of Access to Software for All People (ASAP), will explore access to technology as the basis for economic opportunity. FAIRLY FREE: Compensating Creators and Maximizing Access As the slogan goes, "information wants to be free" -- and in digital technologies there is a plethora of information. Computer libertarians sometimes find themselves at odds with commercial publishers, and in a sometimes uneasy relationship with creators -- writers, photographers, graphic artists -- who want to be fairly compensated when others profit from their work. What is the public's stake in translating traditional principles of copyright, piracy and fair use into the media environment of the 21st century? SHOW ME THE MONEY The economics of the digital age are quite different from that of our waning industrial world. From the "market of one" to global banking, value is no longer measured in tons or shiploads, but in much more difficult to measure units like "attention" and "clickstream." Speculation about the future in this area rivals some of the greatest science fiction ever written. The question is not only where are we going, but is there anything we do about it? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Saturday, October 4 6:30 - 8:00 p.m. GALA EVENT Berkeley Conference Center 2105 Bancroft Way, Berkeley Cocktail reception honoring Dr. PETER NEUMANN, 1997 recipient of CPSR's Norbert Wiener Award for his outstanding contributions to the field of Risk and Reliability in Computer Science. Reception tickets may be purchased without registering for the conference, for $30. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sunday, October 5 9:00 a.m. -12 noon WORKSHOPS: EXPLORING DIGITAL COMMERCE Twelve workshops will give hands-on information on such topics as creating community access; how will we work in the digital workplace; how will we define work-value and compensation; and many more important issues. For updated conference information, check our conference webpage at: http://www.cpsr.org/dox/home.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sunday, October 5 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. CPSR ANNUAL MEETING FREE AND OPEN TO EVERYONE Reports from the CPSR board and staff. Envisioning our Future - CPSR's Strategic Plan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Conference Sponsors Corporate: Interval Research Corporation Internet Travel Network Pacific Bell Co-Sponsoring Organizations: Department of Computer Science, UCB School of Information Management and Systems, UCB International Computer Science Institute National Writer's Union Access to Software for All People * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * AIR: United Airlines is the official airline of the conference. For a discount rate, call 800-521-4041 and refer to Meeting ID Code: 520YA HOTEL: Some rooms have been reserved at the Shattuck Hotel, in downtown Berkeley, a few blocks from the campus at $69 for Singles, and $79 for Doubles, plus 12% tax. To reserve, call by September 19th. Call in CA: 800-742-8825, Out-of-State: 800-237-5359, and refer to CPSR. DIRECTIONS: University of California - Berkeley visitor and parking information is available at: http://www.urel.berkeley.edu/urel_1/VisitorsCenter/visitor.html. PARKING: Parking on weekends is $3 (all in quarters in most lots) per day in any parking area not posted as "restricted." Parking behind Dwinelle Hall can be reached from Oxford Street by taking Cross Campus Drive (between Center Street and Allston Way). A campus parking map is available at: http://geogweb.berkeley.edu/CampusMaps.html. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * REGISTRATION Name_________________________________________________________ Address_______________________________________________________ City_________________________________ State________ Zip___________ Telephone__(_____)_________________ E-mail _________________________________ Payment method: Check___Visa___MC___ Card #________________________________ Exp. Date_____ Pre- registration (By 9/26) Late or On site CPSR members $65______ $75______ Non member $90______ $100______ New or Reactivating CPSR membership & registration $95______ $105______ Low income/student $30______ $35______ Wiener Award Ceremony rate for conference registrants $5______ $10______ OR to attend without registering for conference $30 _______ Additional donation to further CPSR's work $________ Total enclosed: $________ Scholarships available in limited quantity. Contact CPSR for information. Send completed registration form with payment to: CPSR, P.O. Box 717, Palo Alto, CA 94302 > -- > Susan Evoy * Deputy Director > http://www.cpsr.org/home.html > Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility > P.O. Box 717 * Palo Alto * CA * 94302 > Phone: (650) 322-3778 * Fax: (650) 322-4748 * Email: >evoy at cpsr.org --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Sep 1 18:59:44 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:59:44 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: <199709020326.XAA00192@crypt.com> Message-ID: <58mDce20w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Dave K-P writes: > > > > Information, please! > > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > Don't "escrow" your keys. > Don't take advice from strangers. Don't ask, don't tell. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From tcmay at got.net Mon Sep 1 19:47:29 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:47:29 +0800 Subject: Net Worth, nut Work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:17 PM -0700 9/1/97, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Now, kiddies, don't forget to swallow your milk before you read this. > >Don't want to blow it all out your nose... > >Cheers, As the Acting Chairperson of "Access to Tickets for All People," ATAP, I was disappointed to see so many relics of the Sixth Industrial Capitalist Era in this press release. Allow me to comment: >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >This message was forwarded through the Eat the Rich News Service (ETRNS). ... >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Computer Professionals for Social Responsibilty >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Net Worth, Net Work: >Technology & Values for the Digital Age > >Saturday and Sunday >October 4 & 5 >University of California - Berkeley >Dimwit Hall > > >THE TECHNOLOGIES OF RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS >What are the technologies that will make digital commerce work in a socially >responsible manner? Nathaniel Borenstein of First Virtual and a panel of >digital >commerce experts will present an overview of the tools of the digital age and >freewheeling discussion of their responsible use. ATAP applauds this choice of a keynote speaker. Based on his company's [censored by ATAP lawyers] products, which some have characterized as a form of snake oil, it is apparent that he will not soon become a Greedy Capitalist. Or at least not a rich one. >ACCESS FOR ALL >New technologies are rapidly changing what people need to know to compete >effectively in the job market. It is increasingly evident that the technology >revolution threatens to leave whole populations behind --despite improved >access >to computers in our communities. Many predict the long-term result will be >a new >generation of Americans mired in low-paying, menial jobs. This panel, >organized >by Madeline Stanionis of Access to Software for All People (ASAP), will >explore >access to technology as the basis for economic opportunity. ATAP demands that all who wish to attend this conference receive tickets without charge. Fair is fair. >longer >measured in tons or shiploads, but in much more difficult to measure units >like >"attention" and "clickstream." Speculation about the future in this area >rivals >some of the greatest science fiction ever written. The question is not only >where are we going, but is there anything we do about it? ATAP thinks this writer needs to take more SF classes. ATAP has never heard the neologism "clickstream." Perhaps high tech has been taken over English majors, intent on outyounging Mr. Young? >Cocktail reception honoring Dr. PETER NEUMANN, 1997 recipient of CPSR's >Norbert >Wiener Award for his outstanding contributions to the field of Risk and >Reliability in Computer Science. Reception tickets may be purchased without >registering for the conference, for $30. What about Access to Tickets for All People? What is this nonsense about charging money in a money-free, post-work era? ATAP says "Steal this Event." >Co-Sponsoring Organizations: >Department of Computer Science, UCB >School of Information Management and Systems, UCB >International Computer Science Institute >National Writer's Union Which explains the "clickstream" stupidity. But not "face time" or "competing for eyeballs." >Access to Software for All People >AIR: United Airlines is the official airline of the conference. >For a discount rate, call 800-521-4041 and refer to Meeting ID Code: 520YA I assume that United is providing free tickets for all people? (A puzzle: If we are in a post-work age, who is flying the planes?) >HOTEL: Some rooms have been reserved at the Shattuck Hotel, in downtown >Berkeley, a few blocks from the campus at $69 for Singles, and $79 for The Shattuck Hotel will presumably be providing Access to Rooms for All People (ARAP, as in "That's ARAP.). > Pre- registration (By 9/26) Late or On site > >CPSR members $65______ $75______ >Non member $90______ $100______ >New or Reactivating CPSR membership > & registration $95______ $105______ > >Low income/student $30______ $35______ >No income/Cypherpunk $0_______ $0______ What's all this stuff about money in a post-money, post-work, clickstreaming age? --Klaus! von Future Prime, Acting Chairperson, Access to Tickets for All People There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From attila at hun.org Mon Sep 1 21:11:21 1997 From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:11:21 +0800 Subject: "French kiss NSA/BXA" In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970901185733.0083cff4@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <199709020359.VAA17707@infowest.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970901:1457 John Young expostulated: [snip] +It looks as though the fall crypto campaign is about to open with a +rush, worldwide. Stories being fed to journalists, draft regs being +dealt to collaborators, license approvals for sure bettors. Up-yours to +all the rest who don't want to, in smooth-tongue Stewart Baker's +phrase, "French kiss NSA/BXA." French kiss? kiss my what? sorry, folks, they will not even get my key when they pry my still smokin' weapon from my cooling hand. "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other." --Benjamin Franklin ______________________________________________________________________ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBNAuNZL04kQrCC2kFAQGhYAQAi4mGdFzKwTUuvXYldrIUOaJpsPDlEDN2 +OWTtSUnrTRq58b94oAt6fh0o18i9x/B9Wrvz8WyiTVuGzySNJrL+sEe0ZG1NgAJ hDJ056ngtIPO2iBDALamy+d8/t8ZKMm7RxhhY6jT76gjHsFGpkMD707S6GSoSxHM TYhlXE/5XWM= =GRkC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From attila at hun.org Mon Sep 1 21:11:48 1997 From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:11:48 +0800 Subject: Diana: is tcmay cp's official rep? Message-ID: <199709020359.VAA17702@infowest.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Diana: is tcmay cp's official rep? ______________________________________________________________________ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBNAuM1r04kQrCC2kFAQFIFQP9E8PiFhEHOnRS6YJMBcJsrznMlEr2wZR/ F4fe3hDCxr0cSF4sHIfg96fIxmXrHHR6rjotz/zxEXmkuQdVlpOQ1Lj7HU0o793G EdBCkEQ5Jo50Evv1hC0LKJzPdU09rSKhBfEwDysuLb2UgVkY2Ln4OELjsW5Pq19Y f5KitV/Fb+c= =eZBb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blancw at cnw.com Mon Sep 1 21:14:37 1997 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:14:37 +0800 Subject: The End of Politics Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970901202355.013e23d0@cnw.com> Steve Schear wrote: > The End of Politics > >Every 500 years or so Western history seems to reach a turning point: the >founding of democracy (Athens, c. 500 B.C.), the death to Christ, the fall >of the Roman Empire and beginning of the Dark Ages (c. 500 A.D.), the >ascendancy of the Catholic Church and beginning to the Middle Ages (c. 1000 >A.D.) and the Renaissance (c. 1500 A.D.). ........................................................... I'm so curious to know what occasioned this burst of insight and historical perspective from you, Steve? This is because, just by coincidence, I was up into the wee hours of this morning and happened to be perusing the MS Bookshelf Chronology of History. Looking through the dates on which certain events occurred - political, scientific, artistic, etc., I also was noting the changes which took place in 500 yr (or so) measures, just for comparison. I was noting when certain changes occurred in civilization which would mark major points of (to me) "advancement". The Chronology that I was looking at is a very simplified and limited one, so my examination was constrained to the list offered. Depending on which sector of activity one is looking at, it is possible to note areas of progress, discovery, or regression. But in looking at the vocabulary, in the way which many events are described, I also noted that the terms which were used to identify things is permeated with the ideas of politics, of descriptions by reference to relative positions of control in the human context; then, as more facts about the world beyond the proximate social schemas are revealed, concepts and ideas are apprehended in a broader context, to include more extensively the other elements of the Universe, and the descriptive terms change accordingly, becoming more objective (more in terms of "things as they are", rather than so much in terms of human relationships, of comparative positions of social influence). In considering their understanding of things, it is like the expression, "to someone with a hammer everything looks like a nail". To the ancestral evolving minds, the relationships of each to others, the jockeying for the more favorable positions over each other, was paramount. As it becomes easier to pursue the curiosities of Nature, develop artistic interests, and achieve practical solutions to Life's problems, the attention transforms from those earlier concerns to a concentrated pursuit of knowledge and to an increased, augmented perspective on what is Important and what are the Real Problems (and what are the actual working solutions). Existence then takes on a different perspective - it does not seem as dangerous (other people don't seem as threatenting) when a person has achieved mastery over the elements and forces of Nature. And this difference in understanding is reflected in the vocabulary. At least, that is what occurred to me as I was looking at the historical timeline. .. Blanc From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Sep 1 21:38:03 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:38:03 +0800 Subject: Hey Message-ID: <199709020420.GAA27612@basement.replay.com> bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu wrote: > > :: > Encrypted: PGP > > -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- > Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 > MessageID: yV9u2hakLFv9/SGjemJH0AuGYsBQ1cOE > > hQCMA/HAD1cfk+qpAQQAwuEDcaGfi1QCu84QklmpWe0AtyQUKGvkIuT8cEXt/ePS > G1QAGQBHNRPvsN92ORDxPY5K+JgeS4b8ZpRJ+C9pSFwtzJXyoSaPSWLVLe//GU4y > H+yeO8kMmK2qbbthgDD1D/00sXbrQsqEbIyz2al/bRIFzalS8UHQg4Olg7hTjpGl > AY608e0OyKO78dPdEGeRYH5PwW6BLgppULjR17+Puo0ukIqwcItJlYPx7K2AgNtA > 9sDlymr5h+cMky+BbrFWoi8QZEBrHvhXckXuPWHDlrmxTzd362m2R9G3/4TLlMjK > j6q2TD5DA0CT/g1ETK3J0y+7cFfuGp6oP2PhP27VCBW6maIp1Z35K3yNy7vytrTE > qDuJtcF2lvDAYKBcKr0lk6fBuGfRRZge3ZlAOgo/t5KPSGou/KlkHb2eR20vWqUM > Z2xcTkn5Y+ZJsPb/k9sOe8vKGK38IGYZdv2nj3k7MQvCIIuwAc37XIiC53mWAP8V > mIISGuYa2DgcxkdEy/rW0vd3AbhRzNGHp4u4zpjK/r2kTDGYGBURZFv2dC24KmcT > sgGYqYhYFY2/xmwiQgNKaRlMgrhRJZ8ytLxSCQts1pZhbImf2BFFBNshSIPUiZIn > 4fEPvD0lgJjC7jkkwAjEfN3E8DSCORs7GzKY1/Psr5ZZkEKVezv2blL+5YjYff+H > vfqgXkeGKOgXNUT1lNZZWA== > =wuTx > -----END PGP MESSAGE----- I find this highly unlikely. If you check the archives, you will find that this has been discussed previously on the list, and has been discounted by anyone with a modicum of reason. From remailer at bureau42.ml.org Mon Sep 1 21:49:52 1997 From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:49:52 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: Steve Schear wrote: > >Tim May wrote: > It may be somewhat self-serving but in light of the past few hundred years > history, few (except Italians) would see the founding of Rome as > significant as the invention of democracy. History is relative. I see neither or the these as being of as great a significance as the first time I got laid. > >or so, the death of that Jesus guy > >was a minor event (the real event was the rise of the Church, in Rome, > >during the next few centuries, > > I think you'd get some major disagreements with that one. No. No one disagrees with that one. > Many historians do not see Constantine's empire as truly the continuation > of the Roman Empire per se, but that of the church (an event which as you > point out began with Jesus). The church began with the invention of money. The papacy began with the invention of bingo. The reformation was begun by sore losers who never won anything at bingo. Jewry began with a jeweller who had agraphia. (1) (1) "I Know About All That Old Shit" by the History Guy HistoryMonger From tcmay at got.net Mon Sep 1 21:52:38 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:52:38 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? Message-ID: Item: Getting a transponder or bar-coded "EZ Pass" for your vehicle is completely voluntary....but if you don't have one of these transponders or passes, you'll have to go to the "manual" lane...Oh, and it seems that due to budget cutbacks we're short on staff and so you'll have to wait a while...maybe _quite_ a while. (Plus, while you're waiting maybe we'll just snap a photo of your license plate anyway, as you might be a terrorist or Mann Act felon trying to evade our surveillance....) Item: The U.S. is proud to call its tax system "voluntary," in terms of what citizens report. (The voluntary term was never that participation was voluntary, only that a tax collector did not show up in person and decide what a person owed.) However, to ensure compliance with the voluntary part, citizen-units will find that their bank narcs them out to FinCEN and IRS, and that electronic intercepts of financial dealings are common, and that "compliance audits" are far more draconian than ordinary citizen-units imagine. Item: Key recovery is purely voluntary. Unless you try to communicate with foreigners. Unless you are involved in any communications with drug dealers, money launderers, terrorists, child pornographers, or any other Horsemen. (Wouldn't you really rather play it safe and use the Government Approved Krypto?) Item (in the Very Near Future): "But, Mr. and Mrs. Zludnick, the ChildFinder (TM) implant is painless and quick. Based on the technology used to find lost pets, ChildFinder (TM) allows authorities in public places to scan for kidnapped or lost children. Surely you'd want your daughter to have access to this technology? While completely voluntary--after all, Mr. Zludnick, we are still a democracy, aren't we?--you should be aware that the school nurse will be most unhappy if your children are not ChildFinder-compatible. Not to mention the teachers who count on using RollTaker (TM) to automatically take the roll of students. And your children will have to take tests in special rooms, and checked for evidence of identity spoofing. All in all, Mr. and Mrs. Zludnick, I think you can see the problems. Why, in a sense, it would be a kind of child abuse, don't you think, to make your little Johnny and Suzy such oddities in the class. I'm sure you wouldn't Child Protective Services to make one of their "visits," would you? They're oh-so-thorough in uncovering signs of an unwholesome home environment. And then where would you be? So, can I assume you'll be volunteering?" What we are seeing is an Orwellian abuse of the English language. Programs are introduced as "voluntary" ones, but the alternatives are either deliberately made time-consuming and annoying, or the alternatives are just dropped completely. (I'm not talking about what private individuals or companies ask for. Alice's Restaurant is free to require patrons to wear silly hats, as it is their property. What I'm confining my comments to is the "mandatory voluntary" nature of more and more government programs.) The airline bag confirmation system is an in-between situation. It is partly a security matter to require bags be correlated with actual flying passengers...cuts down on bombs sent in bags. But it is also a surveillance/tracking issue, and the airlines are playing the tune the government calls for. (Else why would airlines not accept passengers who a) in fact board the plane, and b) pay in cash for their tickets? It used to be this way. No more. Now they demand a True Name, regardless of how easy it is to buy phony documents. If I can buy a phony set, or can even make up my own, imagine what actual terrorists can do.) And there's the whole issue of Social Security Cards. My card, issued in 1969, says it's not be used for any purposes except SS and income tax matters. Tell that to the many agencies, public and corporate, demanding it. The point? Our privacy is being "escrowed." The automobile transponders and barcoded vehicle passes are touted as voluntary, but they really are not. Chaumian, identity-protecting technologies need to be deployed. Frankly, I think Cypherpunks are getting off track with all the recent focus on "old" technologies (which I'll leave unspecified, as my point is not to attack certain pet projects). The real stuff is going undone. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Mon Sep 1 22:01:16 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:01:16 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? Message-ID: Oh, I left out one of the best examples of this Orwellian doublethink about what "voluntary" means. Item: "You may volunteer to let the nice officers boarding this bus search your bags without any kind of search warrant or probable cause. Most of you will readily volunteer, as you "have nothing to hide." However, failure to volunteer will then mark you as a probable hider of something, and the police officers will then have "probable cause" to search your bags. Have a nice day." This was an actual case, heard by the Supreme Court several years back. Bus passengers were given the opportunity to volunteer, as noted. Failure to volunteer was construed as probable cause that contraband was present. (No, I don't know the name of the case. My recollection is that it took place in Florida or one of the Carolinas. Nor do I recollect how the Supremes decided the case....I can hope they ruled it a clear violation of the Fourth. But I don't remember. Regardless of the outcome, for now, it shows the Orwellian concept of "mandatory voluntary" at work.) --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From scuttle at alias.cyberpass.net Mon Sep 1 22:19:08 1997 From: scuttle at alias.cyberpass.net (Scuttle) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:19:08 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <199709020451.VAA19798@sirius.infonex.com> At 08:00 PM 9/1/97 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote... >Dave K-P writes: > >> > > > Information, please! >> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. >> > Don't "escrow" your keys. >> Don't take advice from strangers. >Don't ask, don't tell. Don't eat yellow snow. From stewarts at ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 1 23:14:24 1997 From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:14:24 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970901230224.03062280@popd.ix.netcom.com> The case was in Florida; I don't remember the name either. The officers got on the bus and told some passengers they wanted to search their bags. One passenger felt intimidated, but gave in, got busted for the drugs he was carrying, and appealed. The Supremes basically ruled that he should have known his rights, was not under arrest, and could have refused to consent, but that since he did consent to the intimidating well-armed gentlemen blocking his exit from the bus, it's not their problem. Not the kind of ruling I'd hope for, but it does at least make it clear that just because the police tell you you have to consent, that doesn't mean you _do_ have to consent. On the other hand, the police can arrest you for no particularly good reason for up to 48 hours, which kind of puts a crimp in your Greyhound ticket. If you don't mind joining the ACLU, an ACLU card isn't bad ID to give a cop who demands one .... don't leave home without it. At 09:53 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: >Item: "You may volunteer to let the nice officers boarding this bus search >your bags without any kind of search warrant or probable cause. Most of you >will readily volunteer, as you "have nothing to hide." However, failure to >volunteer will then mark you as a probable hider of something, and the >police officers will then have "probable cause" to search your bags. Have a >nice day." > >This was an actual case, heard by the Supreme Court several years back. Bus >passengers were given the opportunity to volunteer, as noted. Failure to >volunteer was construed as probable cause that contraband was present. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.) From vijo at vikram.svrec.ernet.in Mon Sep 1 23:31:58 1997 From: vijo at vikram.svrec.ernet.in (Vijo Cherian) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:31:58 +0800 Subject: snuffle.c (was Re: Reuter on Bernstein Ruling) In-Reply-To: <199708262215.XAA01021@server.test.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Adam Back wrote: You ->> You ->>snuffle and unsnuffle are only 64 lines each... so here they are. You You ->>need snefru also (snuffle for those not following is a construction to You ->>convert a hash function into an encryption function ... Bernstein's You ->>example is set up to use snefru ... a hash function). How can I get snefru and the detailed snuffle algorithm? I am not from USA(I am from India)....I also wanted the perl implementations of the algos..... I heard that C implementation of DES is also available for public use... I donot want to break any law...and i donot know what exactly the US say about encryption and related stuff... TIA bye, vijo *********** _/ _/ Vijo Cherian _/ _/ Final year undergraduate student, _/ _/ _/ _/ /__/_/ Computer Engineering, _/ _/ _/ _/ / |/ SVREC,Surat _/ _/ _/ | |/ India _/ | |/ vijo at svrec.ernet.in _/ -/ \____ / vijo at acm.org -/_/_/ *************************************** From gbroiles at netbox.com Tue Sep 2 00:20:59 1997 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:20:59 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970902001252.006e3cd8@pop.sirius.com> At 11:38 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: >This was an actual case, heard by the Supreme Court several years back. Bus >passengers were given the opportunity to volunteer, as noted. Failure to >volunteer was construed as probable cause that contraband was present. > >(No, I don't know the name of the case. My recollection is that it took >place in Florida or one of the Carolinas. Nor do I recollect how the >Supremes decided the case... This sounds like _Florida v. Bostick_, 501 U.S. 429 (1991), on the web at . Bill Stewart's summary of the case looked like a good one to me. -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles at netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. | From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 00:24:49 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:24:49 +0800 Subject: India's Crypto Laws In-Reply-To: <199708262215.XAA01021@server.test.net> Message-ID: At 10:18 PM -0700 9/1/97, Vijo Cherian wrote: > How can I get snefru and the detailed snuffle algorithm? >I am not from USA(I am from India)....I also wanted the perl >implementations of the algos..... > I heard that C implementation of DES is also available for public use... >I donot want to break any law...and i donot know what exactly the US >say about encryption and related stuff... Well, for starters, what are the laws about crypto use in India? (I'm serious. None of our Indian list subscribers, that I can recall, has carefully stated what the Indian laws are.) If it isn't illegal in India, what do you care what some laws in the U.S.A. say? I certainly don't let whatever the laws are in India, or Botswana, or Germany, or Latvia dictate my actions in the U.S. So, when you say "I donot want to break any law," how do you think you could be breaking any laws that bind you? (If you are concerned that using DES could cause you to be subject to kidnapping and wrapping in a Persian carpet by one of the NSA's snatch teams, I expect you have little to worry about. Noriega was kidnapped and spirited out of Panama because he knew the details of Bush's CIA dealings in Panama. I expect you have nothing that scares them.) --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 00:49:29 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:49:29 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:12 AM -0700 9/2/97, Greg Broiles wrote: >At 11:38 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: >>This was an actual case, heard by the Supreme Court several years back. Bus >>passengers were given the opportunity to volunteer, as noted. Failure to >>volunteer was construed as probable cause that contraband was present. >> >>(No, I don't know the name of the case. My recollection is that it took >>place in Florida or one of the Carolinas. Nor do I recollect how the >>Supremes decided the case... > >This sounds like _Florida v. Bostick_, 501 U.S. 429 (1991), on the web at >=429>. > >Bill Stewart's summary of the case looked like a good one to me. Thanks, I guess, to all of you who sent further information on this case. I'm chagrinned at this repetitive pattern, though: all it takes is a "I don't remember" for a thread to be completely dominated by helpful comments, clarifications, etc. (Ditto for any question even remotely impinging on financial or tax advice, which is why I almost always include requests that helpful tax advice not be sent to me. I can't seem to mention tax issues without a bunch of helpful souls sending me their ideas on how to beat taxes by incorporating myself in Andorra and then hiring myself as a consultant to the Andorran embassy in California, or whatever.) One strategy I've considered is to never, never, ever admit that I don't know something, as this will forestall the corrections, expansions, clarifications, and citings. Or to express things more elliptically. It pays to be Young. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From amp at pobox.com Tue Sep 2 00:58:37 1997 From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:58:37 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Item: "You may volunteer to let the nice officers boarding this bus search > your bags without any kind of search warrant or probable cause. Most of you > will readily volunteer, as you "have nothing to hide." However, failure to > volunteer will then mark you as a probable hider of something, and the > police officers will then have "probable cause" to search your bags. Have a > nice day." > > This was an actual case, heard by the Supreme Court several years back. Bus > passengers were given the opportunity to volunteer, as noted. Failure to > volunteer was construed as probable cause that contraband was present. > > (No, I don't know the name of the case. My recollection is that it took > place in Florida or one of the Carolinas. Nor do I recollect how the > Supremes decided the case....I can hope they ruled it a clear violation of > the Fourth. But I don't remember. Regardless of the outcome, for now, it > shows the Orwellian concept of "mandatory voluntary" at work.) ---------------End of Original Message----------------- >From http://www.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/data/us/501/429. html FLORIDA v. BOSTICK CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF FLORIDA No. 89-1717 Argued February 26, 1991 Decided June 20, 1991 As part of a drug interdiction effort, Broward County Sheriff's Department officers routinely board buses at scheduled stops and ask passengers for permission to search their luggage. Two officers boarded respondent Bostick's bus and, without articulable suspicion, questioned him and requested his consent to search his luggage for drugs, advising him of his right to refuse. He gave his permission, and the officers, after finding cocaine, arrested Bostick on drug trafficking charges. His motion to suppress the cocaine on the ground that it had been seized in violation of the Fourth Amendment was denied by the trial court. The Florida Court of Appeal affirmed, but certified a question to the State Supreme Court. That court, reasoning that a reasonable passenger would not have felt free to leave the bus to avoid questioning by the police, adopted a per se rule that the sheriff's practice of "working the buses" is unconstitutional. Held: 1. The Florida Supreme Court erred in adopting a per se rule that every encounter on a bus is a seizure. The appropriate test is whether, taking into account all of the circumstances surrounding the encounter, a reasonable passenger would feel free to decline the officers' requests or otherwise terminate the encounter. Pp. 433-437. (a) A consensual encounter does not trigger Fourth Amendment scrutiny. See Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 19, n. 16. Even when officers have no basis for suspecting a particular individual, they may generally ask the individual questions, Florida v. Rodriguez, 469 U.S. 1, 5-6, ask to examine identification, INS v. Delgdo, 466 U.S. 210, 216, and request consent to search luggage, Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. 491, 501, provided they do not convey a message that compliance with their requests is required. Thus, there is no doubt that, if this same encounter had taken place before Bostick boarded the bus or in the bus terminal, it would not be a seizure. Pp. 434-435. (b) That this encounter took place on a bus is but one relevant factor in determining whether or not it was of a coercive nature. The state court erred in focusing on the "free to leave" language of Michigan v. Chesternut, 486 U.S. 567, 573, rather than on the principle that those words were intended to capture. This inquiry is not an accurate measure of an encounter's coercive effect when a person is seated on a bus about to depart, has no desire to leave, and would not feel free to leave [501 U.S. 429, 430] even if there were no police present. The more appropriate inquiry is whether a reasonable passenger would feel free to decline the officers' request or otherwise terminate the encounter. Thus, this case is analytically indistinguishable from INS v. Delgado, supra. There, no seizure occurred when INS agents visited factories at random, stationing some agents at exits while others questioned workers, because, even though workers were not free to leave without being questioned, the agents' conduct gave them no reason to believe that they would be detained if they answered truthfully or refused to answer. Such a refusal, alone, does not furnish the minimal level of objective justification needed for detention or seizure. Id., at 216-217. Pp. 435-437. 2. This case is remanded for the Florida courts to evaluate the seizure question under the correct legal standard. The trial court made no express findings of fact, and the State Supreme Court rested its decision on a single fact - that the encounter took place on a bus - rather than on the totality of the circumstances. Rejected, however, is Bostick's argument that he must have been seized because no reasonable person would freely consent to a search of luggage containing drugs, since the "reasonable person" test presumes an innocent person. Pp. 437-440. ------------------------ Name: amp E-mail: amp at pobox.com Date: 09/02/97 Time: 02:24:20 Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp Have you seen http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum ------------------------ "The Legislature interprets the Constitution as damage, and routes around it." For the benefit of Spambots everywhere: webmaster at localhost abuse at localhost postmaster at localhost From vijo at vikram.svrec.ernet.in Tue Sep 2 03:58:54 1997 From: vijo at vikram.svrec.ernet.in (Vijo Cherian) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:58:54 +0800 Subject: India's Crypto Laws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Tim May wrote: You ->>Well, for starters, what are the laws about crypto use in India? About crypto ,Indian law is silent...it does not put any restriction on individuals selling or explaining their algo or anything like that You ->>(I'm serious. None of our Indian list subscribers, that I can recall, has You ->>carefully stated what the Indian laws are.) You ->> You ->>If it isn't illegal in India, what do you care what some laws in the U.S.A. You ->>say? OK I will make it little more clear.I meant --I donot want anyone to break the law for me... and i donot what the laws are....Or how they censorship ......or anything like that You ->>I certainly don't let whatever the laws are in India, or Botswana, or You ->>Germany, or Latvia dictate my actions in the U.S. Even I donot You ->>So, when you say "I donot want to break any law," how do you think you You ->>could be breaking any laws that bind you? As I mentioned before,I did not make myself very clear when i told that. You ->>(If you are concerned that using DES could cause you to be subject to You ->>kidnapping and wrapping in a Persian carpet by one of the NSA's snatch You ->>teams, I expect you have little to worry about. Noriega was kidnapped and You ->>spirited out of Panama because he knew the details of Bush's CIA dealings You ->>in Panama. I expect you have nothing that scares them.) I never knew of all these........ Ok but the basic question remains CAN YOU HELP ME???? I am just starting my work for a paper on encryption algorithms.I am quite new in the feild....so just need some help TIA, vijo *********** _/ _/ Vijo Cherian _/ _/ Final year undergraduate student, _/ _/ _/ _/ /__/_/ Computer Engineering, _/ _/ _/ _/ / |/ SVREC,Surat _/ _/ _/ | |/ India _/ | |/ vijo at svrec.ernet.in _/ -/ \____ / -/_/_/ *************************************** From jya at pipeline.com Tue Sep 2 05:03:15 1997 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:03:15 +0800 Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970902114357.0075f674@pop.pipeline.com> NSA and NIST will set up a new lab for evaluation of information-security products, including crypto algorithms: http://jya.com/nsa-nist.txt The lab will coordinate with other nations. Plans include eventual shifting the evaluation to private testing labs once accreditation standards are set. With critiques by Bruce Schneier and Steve Walker, and a slap from NCSA, which now provides testing, "They've been talking about this stuff for years." From rah at shipwright.com Tue Sep 2 06:02:11 1997 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:02:11 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:42 am -0400 on 9/2/97, Tim May wrote: > Chaumian, identity-protecting technologies need to be deployed. > > Frankly, I think Cypherpunks are getting off track with all the recent > focus on "old" technologies (which I'll leave unspecified, as my point is > not to attack certain pet projects). > > The real stuff is going undone. So, Tim, what should we all be working on, in particular? Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ From whgiii at amaranth.com Tue Sep 2 07:39:24 1997 From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:39:24 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709021436.JAA08076@mailhub.amaranth.com> In , on 09/01/97 at 09:42 PM, Tim May said: >The real stuff is going undone. I must object to this. We at bomberpunks (TM) are getting the real work done. New and intresting technologies are currently being developed. Also further improvements in command and control, communications, stragic and tactical planning along with an increase of "in the field" training with numerious "freedom fighters" worldwide. Bomberpunks coming to a "soft target" near you. From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 09:04:29 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:04:29 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:43 AM -0700 9/2/97, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 12:42 am -0400 on 9/2/97, Tim May wrote: > > > >> Chaumian, identity-protecting technologies need to be deployed. >> >> Frankly, I think Cypherpunks are getting off track with all the recent >> focus on "old" technologies (which I'll leave unspecified, as my point is >> not to attack certain pet projects). >> >> The real stuff is going undone. > >So, Tim, what should we all be working on, in particular? OK, you asked. This isn't a comprehensive list. 1. Fully secure machine to machine connections for the Net, as in Gilmore's "SWAN" project. This makes the Net unsnoopable by the NSA and other TLAs, and makes encryption an automatic (at this level...individual users will of course still encrypt on top of this, as relying on others is never enough). 2. A usable form of Chaum's cash, a la Goldberg's or Schear's or Back's or whomever's implementation. An evolution of Magic Money, Hashcash, etc., using full strength algorithms. Backing can be decentralized. Less emphasis on deals with banks, more emphasis on guerilla deployment, a la PGP. (Initial uses may be for illegal things, which may be a good thing for deployment. Sex, for example, historically drives technologies like this. Thus, one might imagine combining blinded (no puns, please) cash with message pools to allow users to anonymously purchase JPEG images and have the resultant images placed in a pool for their later browsing. If done on a per image basis, for small amounts of digital cash, this could help users get their feet wet and gain familiarity. Integration into browsers would help.) 3. Distributed, decentralized data bases, a la Eternity, Blacknet, etc. My number one candidate: a commercial credit rating data base not bound by the U.S.' "Fair Credit Reporting Act." Let lenders and landlords find out the dirt on those who welshed on loans or who skipped out on leases, regardless of what the FCRA says. (This could technically be located today in any non-U.S. country, practically, but access by U.S. persons and corporations would have to be done circumspectly. A good use for blinded cash, of the _fully_ untraceable sort, e.g. payer- and payee-anonymous sort.) Ditto for ratings of doctors and lawyers. Some states in the U.S. are doing this, but under their strict state control. Why not laissez faire approaches, with user-inputted information? (I've written about this extensively. Cf. my Cyphernomicon, for example.) 4. Wider use of persisistent pseudonyms. Most of the "anonymous" posts we see are signed in cleartext with names like "TruthMonger," "BombMonger," etc., with little use of PGP sigs to ensure persistence. Spoofing is trivial. Checking sigs is up to the *end reader*, for example, to see that "Pr0duct Cipher" really is the same nym that's in the past posted as Pr0duct Cipher, but it might be useful for us to start really making more use of this sig checking, and even to maintain our own data base of nyms and their public keys, as a kind of demonstration testbed. 5. And so on. Cf. the archives, etc. for many, many things. What I meant be "the wrong stuff" is the recent focus on breaking simple ciphers that were known to be breakable 20 years ago...just a matter of applying the computons in the right way. All credit to Goldberg and all, but hardly accomplishing very interesting goals (helps Ian get a good job, that's certainly true). Maybe it'll cause slightly stronger crypto to be allowed for export...I don't really care too much about that. In fact, the whole focus on _exports_ and doing things to make exports easier is a _detour_, even a _derailment_. As I've said, I'll start worrying about Netscape getting a license when they start paying me. Until then, foreigners should just bypass what Netscape provides and use drop-ins. (In fact, monkeywrenching the status quo is better than helping Netscape and Microsoft get stronger crypto. For lots of obvious reasons.) My list above is not meant to be a "Strategic Plan." But clearly the Cypherpunks list has been slowly devolving into a gossip list, and a dumping ground for anonymous insults, drunken rambles, and a cheerleading group for predictable accomplishments and for corporate plans. (In particular, a large fraction of the Bay Area contingent now work(s) for various companies in crypto capacitites, even for crypto-focussed companies, and their edge, or at least their public utterance edge, has been dulled. One can speculate on some reasons. Too much talk about how to "help" PGP, Inc., for example, when PGP, Inc. is doing fairly ordinary crypto things and is in fact participating at some level in GAK talks. (I may get a nastygram from Phil on this, courtesy of helpful forwarders of my words to him...it's what I think.) Also, 95% of the crap about "digital commerce" is merely a distraction. The wrong direction, the wrong technology. Just "Visa on the Net," and hence of no real use for our sorts of goals. Worse, the wrong direction. I could rant on, but will spare you all. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From jya at pipeline.com Tue Sep 2 09:26:34 1997 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:26:34 +0800 Subject: Crypto Bill HR 3011 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970902155902.0083feb0@pop.pipeline.com> MSNBC reports today that one of the bills coming up in the congressional session is "H.R. 3011, an encryption bill which favors stripping all export restrictions and opposes any key escrow requirements." We've not been able to find this bill in the usual gov sites. Assuming that MSNBC got the info right, pointers to the bill would be appreciated. From agrapa at banamex.com Tue Sep 2 09:50:04 1997 From: agrapa at banamex.com (Arturo Grapa Ysunza) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:50:04 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: > > >>Dave K-P writes: >> >>>> > > > Information, please! >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. >>>Don't ask, don't tell. >>Don't eat yellow snow. >Don�t spit, just swallow. > From ericm at lne.com Tue Sep 2 10:13:55 1997 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:13:55 +0800 Subject: Beware free 'gifts' Message-ID: <199709021654.JAA22559@slack.lne.com> Spammed to Usenet news: >Subject: Check Em Out >Date: 1 Sep 1997 01:43:23 GMT >Organization: MediaOne SouthEast >Lines: 36 >NNTP-Posting-Host: surf219.pompano.net >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII >X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) > > > Discreet Research > > http://www.dresearch.com > > Background Checks, People Finder, Driving & Criminal Records & more! > * NOW WITH A RESELLER PROGRAM! > > Lost a friend or loved one? we can find em'! fast and cheap! > > Want to check out your mate ? we can! everything from there > driving record, bank account!, license tag trace (all legal!) > > > New Product : PHONE TRAPCARD > > Here's how this exciting new service works. You request who you > want a phonecard sent to. Discreet Research then sends your subject > a disguised gift packaged phonecard charged with 60 minutes of > calling time. Your subject will then use the card to make phone calls. > > Discreet Research will then notify you by fax, e-mail, or by phone with > a daily log that tells you the phone numbers your subject called, > & the phone numbers the calls were placed from. The trapline can trace > any type of phoneline even payphones! The phonecard is valid for 3 > months. > >We also offer a reseller program if you would like to get into the biz! > > > http://www.dresearch.com > e-mail : research at mediaone.net > I wonder how long this company would last if say James Kallstrom was 'tracked' using their 'trapcard'.... -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From sunder at brainlink.com Tue Sep 2 10:27:34 1997 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:27:34 +0800 Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970902114357.0075f674@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, John Young wrote: > NSA and NIST will set up a new lab for evaluation of > information-security products, including crypto algorithms: > > http://jya.com/nsa-nist.txt > > The lab will coordinate with other nations. Plans include > eventual shifting the evaluation to private testing labs > once accreditation standards are set. > > With critiques by Bruce Schneier and Steve Walker, > and a slap from NCSA, which now provides testing, > "They've been talking about this stuff for years." Uh huh, yeah, we'll be getting the NSA to review security... Joy. I can see it now. "Single DES is very safe. 40 bit keys are more than enough..." Even with Bruce on this, it doesn't warm my trust to them... =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Sep 2 10:34:20 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:34:20 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? In-Reply-To: <199709021436.JAA08076@mailhub.amaranth.com> Message-ID: "William H. Geiger III" writes: > In , on 09/01/97 > at 09:42 PM, Tim May said: > > >The real stuff is going undone. > > I must object to this. > > We at bomberpunks (TM) are getting the real work done. New and intresting > technologies are currently being developed. Also further improvements in > command and control, communications, stragic and tactical planning along > with an increase of "in the field" training with numerious "freedom > fighters" worldwide. > > Bomberpunks coming to a "soft target" near you. Cool. Please nuke Washington, DC. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From declan at well.com Tue Sep 2 10:34:21 1997 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:34:21 +0800 Subject: Crypto Bill HR 3011 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970902155902.0083feb0@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, John Young wrote: > MSNBC reports today that one of the bills coming up > in the congressional session is "H.R. 3011, an encryption > bill which favors stripping all export restrictions and > opposes any key escrow requirements." > > We've not been able to find this bill in the usual gov sites. > Assuming that MSNBC got the info right, pointers to the bill > would be appreciated. Yet another example of MSNBC's fine reporting. H.R. 3011 is the bill number for last year's SAFE bill (which was an improvement over this year's, BTW): ftp://ftp.loc.gov/pub/thomas/c104/h3011.ih.txt This year's SAFE bill is H.R. 695. -Declan From sandro at pop.hsbcbamerindus.com.br Tue Sep 2 10:43:04 1997 From: sandro at pop.hsbcbamerindus.com.br (Sandromar Ferreira) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:43:04 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <340C4C6D.77807D84@bbamerindus.com.br> Arturo Grapa Ysunza wrote: > > > > > >>Dave K-P writes: > >> > >>>> > > > Information, please! > >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > >>Don't eat yellow snow. > >Don�t spit, just swallow. Don't touch anything. From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 11:00:06 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 02:00:06 +0800 Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970902114357.0075f674@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: At 10:12 AM -0700 9/2/97, Ray Arachelian wrote: >Uh huh, yeah, we'll be getting the NSA to review security... Joy. I can >see it now. "Single DES is very safe. 40 bit keys are more than >enough..." Even with Bruce on this, it doesn't warm my trust to them... Now, Ray, you're being too harsh. When NSA/NIST sought the analysis of Clipper/Tessera several years ago, the distinguished panel met for a weekend in a D.C. area hotel and concluded...drum roll...that Clipper/Tessera was secure. Of course, Matt Blaze broke the Tessera version a few months later.... NSA has long had a dual mission. SIGINT and COMINT to break enemy messages, and COMSEC to help ensure national security through strong crypto. Code breakers and code makers. For government uses, this has worked pretty well, most of us would agree. ICBM launch codes are apparently secure, submarines can communicate securely, etc. (Please don't chime in with anecdotes about Walker.) Some believe they have a role in helping industry to secure its communications. I don't agree. The NSA has no business getting involved in business. Period. NIST (formerly NBS, of course) may have a role, but I doubt even this. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From whgiii at amaranth.com Tue Sep 2 11:54:09 1997 From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 02:54:09 +0800 Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709021848.NAA10856@mailhub.amaranth.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 09/02/97 at 10:51 AM, Tim May said: >At 10:12 AM -0700 9/2/97, Ray Arachelian wrote: >>Uh huh, yeah, we'll be getting the NSA to review security... Joy. I can >>see it now. "Single DES is very safe. 40 bit keys are more than >>enough..." Even with Bruce on this, it doesn't warm my trust to them... >Now, Ray, you're being too harsh. When NSA/NIST sought the analysis of >Clipper/Tessera several years ago, the distinguished panel met for a >weekend in a D.C. area hotel and concluded...drum roll...that >Clipper/Tessera was secure. >Of course, Matt Blaze broke the Tessera version a few months later.... >NSA has long had a dual mission. SIGINT and COMINT to break enemy >messages, and COMSEC to help ensure national security through strong >crypto. Code breakers and code makers. >For government uses, this has worked pretty well, most of us would agree. >ICBM launch codes are apparently secure, submarines can communicate >securely, etc. (Please don't chime in with anecdotes about Walker.) >Some believe they have a role in helping industry to secure its >communications. I don't agree. The NSA has no business getting involved >in business. Period. >NIST (formerly NBS, of course) may have a role, but I doubt even this. I do not see how NIST could have any role in the private sector as long as they maintain their cozy relationship with the government especially the NSA. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNAxSAY9Co1n+aLhhAQH/dwP7BATbMQ8Y5/muQ2jj7XtIk8Aty6XggaAm BC2FDwjcsWGSgj+y9jMJaHumnKbMXBtX6zZtzCWE/I6PmRD6t2vRnRwQFu/dRk1D zPTVlIq5W54fFsESVJn36tO4BgcI+IxZx/j2K7wUwkpCMSq6aXBoNqs44bTgPPzr q0+i/It0SHI= =he6z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From iang at cs.berkeley.edu Tue Sep 2 12:38:28 1997 From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:38:28 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5uhpc1$vf2$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> In article , Tim May wrote: >All credit to Goldberg and all, but hardly accomplishing very interesting >goals (helps Ian get a good job, that's certainly true). Maybe it'll >cause slightly stronger crypto to be allowed for export...I don't really >care too much about that. > >In fact, the whole focus on _exports_ and doing things to make exports >easier is a _detour_, even a _derailment_. As I've said, I'll start >worrying about Netscape getting a license when they start paying me. >Until then, foreigners should just bypass what Netscape provides and >use drop-ins. I have to disagree here. The export issue is very important to me. For me, crypto export isn't about Netscape getting their 128-bit crypto overseas; it's about me being allowed to publish my research on the net, or give "technical assistance" to foreigners. As long as the current export regs are in place, my ability to publish, collaborate in, and by extension, perform, research in pure or applied cryptography is severely hampered. The effect the crypto regs have on me is that any time I want to actually _implement_ something and publish it, I have to wait for school breaks, go home (to Canada), do all of the work there, and publish it from there before I return to Berkeley. This obviously cuts down on the rate at which I can get things done. Americans don't even have this option. If not for problems like this, S/WAN would certainly be further along than it is now. - Ian From nes2 at nesnet.com Tue Sep 2 12:46:31 1997 From: nes2 at nesnet.com (National Engineering Search) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:46:31 +0800 Subject: Larry Weidner Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1445 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 12:55:19 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:55:19 +0800 Subject: New Candidates for Vengeance Message-ID: Lest people think it is only government stooges who burst into rooms and spray the occupants with bullets, here's a story about bounty hunters doing the same thing. Not the first time, either. Bounty hunters usually work for bail bondsmen, seeking to produce their witnesses. What has surprised me, in some reports I've seen recently on how they work and what their legal authority to enter homes is, is that they are apparently free to enter hotel rooms and private homes at will. One legal expert opined that a homeowner who shoots at them upon their entry is committing a crime, as they are not legally a threat. (Of course, how does a homeowner know this?) Here's an excerpt from the story: --- Tuesday September 2 2:50 PM EDT Police Pursue Arizona Bounty Hunters By David Schwartz PHOENIX(Reuter) - An intense manhunt was under way Tuesday for two bounty hunters who allegedly broke into the wrong house in a commando-style raid looking for a bail-jumper and shot and killed a young couple. Police said two men were in custody and another was under police guard in a hospital after the ski-masked group broke down the front door of the house, held young children at gunpoint and exchanged fire with the couple early Sunday. The bounty hunters apparently were looking for a bail jumper who owed a bond company $25,000, police said. Killed in the shoot-out were Christopher Foote, 23, and Spring Wright, his 21-year-old girlfriend. Their bedroom was riddled with at least 29 bullet holes. -- Seems to me we need a system which executes these several folks. AP is inefficient, but might work. People call me cold-blooded, calling for the death of tyrants, stooges, narcs, and other rifraff. But how can anyone read this story and not realize such scum need to be given a very quick trial and then disposed of? (This, by the way, is one reason folks should have guns in hotel rooms. Some hotels have policies against guns, but this applies only if one is found. And it's usually not a criminal violation, if the local gun laws allow shopkeepers and homeowners/renters to have guns (a few places don't, as we all know). A hotel room is one's temporary residence, as a tent in a campground is.) --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From jf_avon at citenet.net Tue Sep 2 13:01:41 1997 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (jf_avon at citenet.net) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:01:41 +0800 Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V1 #974 In-Reply-To: <199709021708.LAA11034@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> Message-ID: <199709021948.PAA14278@cti06.citenet.net> Excerpt from Canadian Firearms Digest V1 #974 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:08:33 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca To: cdn-firearms-digest at broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V1 #974 Reply-to: cdn-firearms-digest at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:25:42 -0600 From: "GoPlayer Kootenay" Subject: Is Our Government a Legitimate One? This is really just the beginning of what I hope will turn into true multi-logue among not only the RFC, but the Canadian people: What makes a government, at any level, "legitimate"? Is it a line or two in some Statute Book or Constitution, or is it the Continued Assent of The People That Are Governed? I think it's the second choice; our current government at the Canadian federal level thinks it's the first choice. It IS "against the law" to advocate, or to attempt, the ousting of the Canadian government by any method except by the process of voting. These laws were framed in a day when the ideals of Democracy were held high by Government, and the rights of the individual were of the order that the Libertarian movement advocate today. Government RESPECTED the wishes of the people, and generally didn't try to do any propaganda to mould public opinion (except in time of war against the common foe). In turn, the People respected their Government(s) and their laws and statutes, because their elected representatives truly strove to REPRESENT their constituents, and their concerns. Prime Ministers did not beat up on MPs that spoke their minds in favour of the folks "back home" in the Riding. Members of Parliament and Legislatures were honour-bound to resign at the first hint of involvement in Scandal. Times have changed. The Canadian People no longer respect their government, by and large. They do not believe that their elected representatives are much better than confidence-men. Canadians know that MP's and Members of Legislatures will follow what the Party Leader and his Cabinet decree. Ministers and Members no longer think of Scandal as something repugnant to Honour -- just as a temporary embarrassment. Their Leaders rarely pressure them to resign. Democracy is a mere shell of what it once was. Justice peeks through her blindfold when it suits her. Canadian Government has lost its legitimacy. It no longer has the True Assent of the People; it keeps its power by increasing its level of visible intimidation of the People, relying on Rule-by-Statute and Orders-In-Council. Canadians increasingly are afraid of their Government. And the Government knows that. In turn, the Government is increasingly estranged from the People, and passes Laws to coerce "desired behaviour", rather than Good Law that is a REFLECTION of the Peoples' morals and standards. I'm sure most of you have noticed the steep rise in the use of SWAT units to attend incidents where conventional uniformed police officers would have been the norm a decade ago. I'm certain that you have noticed an increasing lack-of-regard by the police for the rights of the Public. I know that most of you are aware that the police are tending to over-react in many clearly non-threatening situations -- take the Chilliwack BB gun incident, for example. And our police do what they are told by their bosses. Just like good little Germans did what they were told by their bosses not so long ago. Good little Canadians are becoming "good little Germans". Only the uniforms are different. When the Russians had had enough of their pre-1917 totalitarian royalist regime, they backed an equally-repressive revolutionary Communist regime. It took them over 70 years to dump that one. People will always opt for a "change", when they are pushed far enough. Bills C-17 and C-68 are just two examples of the Canadian government's thinking, "Perhaps the People *have* been pushed nearer the breaking point". It's food for careful thought. And speech. Shhhhh! - ------------------------------------------------------ From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 13:04:22 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:04:22 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:28 PM -0700 9/2/97, Ian Goldberg wrote: >In article , >Tim May wrote: >>All credit to Goldberg and all, but hardly accomplishing very interesting >>goals (helps Ian get a good job, that's certainly true). Maybe it'll >>cause slightly stronger crypto to be allowed for export...I don't really >>care too much about that. >> >>In fact, the whole focus on _exports_ and doing things to make exports >>easier is a _detour_, even a _derailment_. As I've said, I'll start >>worrying about Netscape getting a license when they start paying me. >>Until then, foreigners should just bypass what Netscape provides and >>use drop-ins. > >I have to disagree here. The export issue is very important to me. >For me, crypto export isn't about Netscape getting their 128-bit crypto >overseas; it's about me being allowed to publish my research on the net, >or give "technical assistance" to foreigners. As long as the current >export regs are in place, my ability to publish, collaborate in, and >by extension, perform, research in pure or applied cryptography is >severely hampered. Fair enough, and that's exactly what the focus of the Bernstein and Junger cases is on. The Washington nonsense would do essentially nothing about the issue of whether crypto is speech, and might even weaken the pending legal cases. > >The effect the crypto regs have on me is that any time I want to actually >_implement_ something and publish it, I have to wait for school breaks, >go home (to Canada), do all of the work there, and publish it from there >before I return to Berkeley. This obviously cuts down on the rate at which >I can get things done. Americans don't even have this option. If not >for problems like this, S/WAN would certainly be further along than it is >now. My understanding was that you had to do most of your work in Canada because of U.S. restrictions on those with student visas? Certainly you are just as much in violations of the EARS by going to Canada to do your crypto work as Rivest and Company would be in by crossing into Canada to develop stuff for RSADSI. Am I missing something here? --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From rwright at adnetsol.com Tue Sep 2 13:24:06 1997 From: rwright at adnetsol.com (Ross Wright) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:24:06 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <199709022010.NAA20048@adnetsol.adnetsol.com> On or About 2 Sep 97 at 14:27, Sandromar Ferreira wrote: > > >>>> > > > Information, please! > > >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > > >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > > >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > > >>Don't eat yellow snow. > > >Don't spit, just swallow. > > Don't touch anything. Don't play with that, you'll shoot your eye out. =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795 From camcc at abraxis.com Tue Sep 2 13:26:00 1997 From: camcc at abraxis.com (Alec McCrackin) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:26:00 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970902151846.007d3c30@smtp1.abraxis.com> At 02:27 PM 9/2/97 -0300, you wrote: |Arturo Grapa Ysunza wrote: | |> >>Dave K-P writes: |> >> |> >>>> > > > Information, please! |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. |> >Don�t spit, just swallow. | >Don't touch anything. Don't touch _there_. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Sep 2 13:26:16 1997 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:26:16 +0800 Subject: SSZ is moving on 9-16-97... Message-ID: <199709022026.PAA09630@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, SSZ will be moving on the 16th. We are expecting no more than a couple of hours of downtime. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage at ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 13:33:32 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:33:32 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:28 PM -0700 9/2/97, Ian Goldberg wrote: >The effect the crypto regs have on me is that any time I want to actually >_implement_ something and publish it, I have to wait for school breaks, >go home (to Canada), do all of the work there, and publish it from there >before I return to Berkeley. This obviously cuts down on the rate at which >I can get things done. Americans don't even have this option. If not >for problems like this, S/WAN would certainly be further along than it is >now. One more question. Could you tell us which things you are talking about here, which things you returned to Canada to implement? (And was any of the "prep" work done here in the U.S.? My understanding of the EARs is that if any of the prep work--basic research, algorithm development, trial coding, etc.--was done in the U.S., then going to Canada to finish and release a piece of code is no protection, and in fact violates the EARs. This is, at least, the explanation given by RSADSI, PGP, Netscape, etc., for why they don't simply move their crypto experts offshore.) In any case, Ian, I think your examples would be very interesting to hear about. I think Dan Bernstein's "Snuffle" was not quite a serious piece of code. By this I mean that Snuffle was never used in a major way in any product (perhaps it could've been...I recall Schneier had some mention of it a while back in Dr. Dobbs, and I don't mean to imply it was not a good cipher, just that Bernstein's challenge was more to prove a legal point than to actually get Snuffle and whatnot available for export in real products), Ditto for Prof. Junger, whom I don't believe was actually threatened with prosecution. In both the Bernstein and Junger cases, and this is a credit to their initiative, they filed premptively, so to speak. They requested clarifications/permissions, and as Karn did, as Levien did (the t-shirt). I have seen no evidence that those publishing academic work in the journals, or even producing products, are being prosecuted under the ITARs or EARs. (The issues of whether a Web release constitutes "export" is of course a separate--and important--issue. And the issue of whether Ian, as a Canadian, can legally do work or sell products while on a student visa in America, is also a separate issue.) If you are actually going to Canada to release products, this might be even more interesting than either the Junger or Bernstein cases. Of course, if you discuss this openly, you may be inviting repercussions. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From spainhou at giex.coastalnet.com Tue Sep 2 13:40:38 1997 From: spainhou at giex.coastalnet.com (Joe Spainhour) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:40:38 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <199709022025.QAA20934@giex.coastalnet.com> > |> >>Dave K-P writes: > |> >> > |> >>>> > > > Information, please! > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow. > | >Don't touch anything. > Don't touch _there_. Never piss into the wind. From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu Tue Sep 2 14:57:04 1997 From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:57:04 +0800 Subject: 90 degree turn Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: Cypherpunk Cults) Message-ID: <199709022146.RAA13693@www.video-collage.com> At 01:45 PM 8/30/97 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 08:57 PM 8/28/97 -0400, I wrote: >>I didn't find out about the Japaneese concentration camps until after I saw >>the karate kid and had it explained to me. As I had most of my high school >>career ahead of me at the time, that much info should have made me aware of >>the lessons covering them in my various high school history classes. Nearly >>every history class I have had has either stopped sometime around the end of >>the civil war, stayed in Oklahoma, ... > > Did the "Trail of Tears" expulsion of the Cherokee to > Oklahoma get covered? > Yes, it was covered. One chief's wife was commended on her bravery and self-sacrifice for giving her blanket to another woman, (and subsequently freezing to death, or something similar.) The blame was pinned on sub-contractors who were charged with feeding the Cherokee people but who often didn't, or who often left the food out hours in advance to spoil. In this particular Oklahoma history class lesson. Not once was an Oklahoman held responsible for the death of so many people. Most of it was given to the people occupying the states between Oklahoma and, I believe, Florida. From enoch at zipcon.net Tue Sep 2 15:34:40 1997 From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:34:40 +0800 Subject: Cypherpunk Action Items Message-ID: <19970902222123.7573.qmail@zipcon.net> From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Sep 2 15:51:40 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:51:40 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <199709022232.AAA10117@basement.replay.com> > > |> >>Dave K-P writes: > > |> >> > > |> >>>> > > > Information, please! > > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. > > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow. > > | >Don't touch anything. > > Don't touch _there_. > Never piss into the wind. Don't pull on a psycho's cape. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Sep 2 15:54:37 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:54:37 +0800 Subject: New Eternity Server? Message-ID: <199709022237.AAA10568@basement.replay.com> Tim May wrote: > Or to express things more elliptically. It pays to be Young. Is there an eternity server named "Forever Young?" Perhaps someone should start one up, and use it a place to send posts that don't really belong on any particular mailing list, because no one can quite figure out what they mean, but should be available to read somewhere, because they clearly say something that it is important to know, but nobody can quite figure out what it is. The web site could carry a "Je Ne Sais Quois" rating. JeNeSaisQuoisMonger From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Sep 2 15:54:43 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:54:43 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! Message-ID: <199709022231.AAA10065@basement.replay.com> Made you look! "We have met the public, and he is _us_." UsMonger From enoch at zipcon.net Tue Sep 2 16:07:28 1997 From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:07:28 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! Message-ID: <19970902225403.9059.qmail@zipcon.net> Nobody writes: > Made you look! > "We have met the public, and he is _us_." > UsMonger Now that pictures of Princess Diana trapped in the wreckage have been printed in European tabloids, it is only a matter of time before someone scans them and posts them to alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless. Clicking on such pictures, of course, is not the moral equivalent of having personally run Princess Diana off the road, regardless of what your neighborhood CPAC member would like you to believe. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ enoch at zipcon.com $ via Finger $ {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell} From biz4uin97 at compuserve.com Wed Sep 3 07:13:59 1997 From: biz4uin97 at compuserve.com (A Business Opportunity for you...) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: $50,000 IN 30 days, guaranteed! Message-ID: <19970903154LAA39382@drizzle.com> PLEASE, Read This Twice!! Dear friend, ================================================ ================================================ This is a "ONE-TIME MESSAGE" you were randomly selected to receive this. There is no need to reply to remove, you will receive no further mailings from us. If you have interest in this GREAT INFORMATION, please do not click reply, use the contact information in this message. Thank You! :-) ================================================ ================================================ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ You are about to make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dream will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the U.S., 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave some thought and study to it. My name is Christopher Erickson. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incured many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happend in my life and I am writing to share the experience in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!! In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six month's prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they would work or not. One claimed that I would make a million dollars in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it! But like I was saying, in December of 1995 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further into debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT." Initially I sent out 10,000 e-mails. It cost me about $15.00 for my time on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfill my orders. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off, but I promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me! A good program to help do this is Ready Aim Fire, an e-mail extracting and mass mail program. At http://microsyssolutions.com/raf In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1. 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A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: By the time you have read the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successfull for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happend to the unemployment rate... because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. 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Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level business, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME AND ARE FILLED THROUGH THE MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere: Step (1) Order all four (4) REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER. Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the four (4) names listed on the next page. For each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a SELF-ADDRESSED STAMPED envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT. International orders should also include $1 extra for postage. It is essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the REPORT requested to the person you are ordering it from. You will need ALL FOUR (4) REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the names or sequence other than what the instructions say. IMPORTANT: Always provide same-day service on all orders. Step (2) Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with your's, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop the name and address under REPORT #2 TO REPORT #3, moving the one that was there to REPORT #4. The name and the address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list and this party is no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing this, make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY!!! DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!! Step (3) Having made the requested changes in the NAME list, save it as text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever e-mail program you like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk e-mailing and acquiring e-mail lists. Step (4) E-mail a copy of the entire program (all of this is very important) to everyone whose address you can get your hands on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage them to take advantage of this fabulous money-making opportunity. That's what I did. And they love me now, more than ever. Then, e-mail to anyone and everyone! Use your imagination! You can get e-mail addresses from companies on the internet who specialize in e-mail mailing lists. These are very cheap, 100,000 addresses for around $35. IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so always request a FRESH, NEW list. You will find out where to purchase these lists when you order the four (4) REPORTS. ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!! REQUIRED REPORTS: ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER. ____________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Liberty Publishing Inc. 2107 W. Commonwealth Ave. Dept.264 Alhambra, CA 91803 ____________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: SOM Co. 2168 S. Atlantic Blvd. #101 Monterey Park, CA 91754 ____________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kal Inc. P.O. Box 2433 Glenview, IL. 60025-2433 ____________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: HENDON ENTERPRISES P.O. Box #188 Seguin, TX. 78156 ____________________________________________________ CONCLUSION: I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too, will be making money in 20-90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing. To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back. However, very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this the question that you must answer. Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have any questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information. You will get a prompt and informative reply. My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that cost me pennies to produce and e-mail. I should also point out that this program is LEGAL and everyone who participates WILL make money. This is not a chain letter or a pyramid scam. At times you probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever! Not only are chain lettters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive. You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of four (4) FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a local copy center for a cost of about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and Good Luck! ----------------------- Headers-------------------------------- >From RPM at treme.et Return-Path: Received: from bh1.jointcom.net.net (jointcom.net.com.au[206.243.199.12]) by mrin41.mail.aol.com (8.6.5/8.6.5/AOL-1.4.1) with ESMTP id baa16347; Received: from jointcom.net.com (1Cust86.Max12.hicksville.dC.Me.Ut.NET) Date: Today/1997/your time zone Received: from mailhost.rerols.com (164.56.68.46) by rerols.com To: you at aol.com Subject: SEE SUBJECT LINE ABOVE Message-ID: <756846494645.JJA63549 at smtp.rerols.com> X-UIDL: 982543fgt98235525nb0338mm632xx532 Comments: Authenticated sender is From gbroiles at netbox.com Tue Sep 2 16:14:20 1997 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:14:20 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970902160546.00934b10@mail.io.com> Tim May wrote: >>>This was an actual case, heard by the Supreme Court several years back. Bus >>>passengers were given the opportunity to volunteer, as noted. Failure to >>>volunteer was construed as probable cause that contraband was present. >>> >>>(No, I don't know the name of the case. My recollection is that it took >>>place in Florida or one of the Carolinas. Nor do I recollect how the >>>Supremes decided the case... >> >>This sounds like _Florida v. Bostick_, 501 U.S. 429 (1991), on the web at >>>=429>. >> >>Bill Stewart's summary of the case looked like a good one to me. >[...] > >One strategy I've considered is to never, never, ever admit that I don't >know something, as this will forestall the corrections, expansions, >clarifications, and citings. One of the things that is - or can be - useful about a cross-disciplinary list like cpunks is that it's possible to read messages written by people who appear to have knowledge about other unfamiliar-to-the-reader fields, and have some confidence that the author isn't completely screwing up what they're writing about, because other list members are likely to speak up and say "Hey, you're not really getting that right..". I provided a case cite and agreed with Bill Stewart's reframing of the issues in the _Bostick_ case not because I imagined that it was especially interesting to you (Tim), but because I think we all lose out when bad information (like, for example, the idea that _Bostick_ is about probable cause, or that it held that failure to volunteer constitutes probable cause) is circulated, especially by people who are otherwise credible authors/speakers. A more useful way to avoid corrections/citations/clarifications might be simply getting the details correct in the first place. -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles at netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. From rah at shipwright.com Tue Sep 2 17:04:49 1997 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:04:49 +0800 Subject: WIPO Implementing Legislation Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: kaye at popd.ix.netcom.com X-Priority: 2 (High) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 14:22:54 -0700 To: From: Kaye Caldwell Subject: WIPO Implementing Legislation Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: member-sponsored-owner at commerce.net Precedence: bulk +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ This message was addressed to: member-sponsored at lists.commerce.net +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ TO: CommerceNet Members A member company has asked that we consider whether CommerceNet joins in the concern, as expressed by the Online Banking Association, that some provisions of HR 2281, the legislation implementing the WIPO treaties, undermine the objectives of the SAFE bill and have a negative effect on the development of encryption technologies. Specifically their concern is that Section 1201(a) will effectively prohibit encryption research and development in that it prohibits the manufacture and use of decryption technologies, which are used to test encryption technologies and make them more secure. They suggest that section (a) needs to be redrafted to prohibit the use of decryption technology to obtain unauthorized access to encryption works. My recommendation is that CommerceNet join in this concern and the recommendation for resolving it. Please let me know if your companies have any objection to CommerceNet doing so. Additional background information is available below. - Kaye Caldwell CommerceNet Policy Director ================= Background Information ========================== For reference, HR 2281 is available at: ftp://ftp.loc.gov/pub/thomas/c105/h2281.ih.txt Section 1201(a) states: `(a) VIOLATIONS REGARDING CIRCUMVENTION OF TECHNOLOGICAL PROTECTION MEASURES- (1) No person shall circumvent a technological protection measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. `(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof that-- `(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological protection measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; `(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological protection measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or `(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person for use in circumventing a technological protection measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. `(3) As used in this subsection-- `(A) to `circumvent a technological protection' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological protection measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and `(B) a technological protection measure `effectively controls access to a work' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work. ============= End of Background Information ========================== =================================== Kaye Caldwell, Policy Director CommerceNet http://www.Commerce.net E-mail: KCaldwell at Commerce.net Phone: (408) 479-8743 Fax: (408) 479-9247 =================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent by a majordomo-based automatic list manager. Subscriptions to and archives of this list are available to CommerceNet members, partners, and invited guests. For further information send a mail message to 'member-sponsored-request at lists.commerce.net' with 'help' (no quotations) contained in the body of your message. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 2 18:43:25 1997 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:43:25 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: <199709020326.XAA00192@crypt.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970902182818.006e2bac@popd.netcruiser> At 08:00 PM 9/1/97 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >> > > > Information, please! >> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. >> > Don't "escrow" your keys. >> Don't take advice from strangers. >Don't ask, don't tell. Never buy toilet paper, toothbrushes, or tampons at the Goodwill store. Jonathan Wienke What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, U.S. Constitution) When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just the police. PGP 2.6.2 RSA Key Fingerprint: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 DSS/D-H Key Fingerprint: 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC Public keys available at pgpkeys.mit.edu. PGP encrypted e-mail preferred. US/Canadian Windows 95/NT or Mac users: Get Eudora Light + PGP 5.0 for free at http://www.eudora.com/eudoralight/ Get PGP 5.0 for free at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pgp-form.html Other PGP 5.0 sources: http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/ http://www.heise.de/ct/pgpCA/download.shtml ftp://ftp.pca.dfn.de/pub/pgp/V5.0/ ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/pc/win95/pgp ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/mac/pgp http://www.shopmiami.com/utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/pgp/pgp50/win/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 [Relevant for all recent discussions on "linking without permission", as well as the usual childpornhysteriamongering.] [1]SIDEBAR [2]Newsbytes Advertising Missing Children Pix On Websites Overpopular ****Missing Children Pix On Websites Overpopular 09/02/97 SEATTLE, WASHINGTON, U.S.A., 1997 AUG 29 (NB) -- By Bruce Miller. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) encourages the owners of Web sites to add a link that will bring up the picture of a different missing child every ten minutes. According to Ruben Rodriguez, Supervisor of the Exploited Child Unit, the Center is getting 70 to 80 requests a day for information to create the link. Some sites, however, have taken the initiative themselves, including pornographic Web sites. "This is the kiss of death for us," said Rodriguez. "We want the public to help us find missing and exploited children. The Internet public is coming to us to display our banner on our sites. Unfortunately, there are some locations on the Internet that are inappropriate." One popular porn site proclaims on its home page that, "This Site Cares About Our Young Children! Please Take A Few Seconds To Look At The Pictures Of The Missing Children!! Every Ten Minutes When You Reload A Different Child's Picture Appears! If We Can Save Just ONE! Then Wouldn't That Be Worth It?" That particular site, said Rodriguez, will get a cease and desist letter from the Center's chief legal counsel. The popularity of linking to the rotating banner has added to another problem: load capacity on the Web server hosting the Center. With a million hits a day presently, and growing, the Center is looking around for a new site with greater capacity to eliminate congestion. For information about signing up with the banner program, send e-mail to banner at ncmec.com. Be patient, the popularity has put the staff a bit behind in responding. NCMEC's Web site is at [3]http://www.missingkids.com ; mirror site [4]http://www.missingkids.org . (19970902/Reported by Newsbytes News Network [5]http://www.newsbytes.com /EXKIDS/PHOTO) "The Pulse of the Information Age" Newsbytes News Network [6]http://www.newsbytes.com 24-hour computer, telecom and online news [7]Copyright �Newsbytes News Network. All rightsreserved. For more Newsbytes see http://www.newsbytes.com. [8]Home | [9]Daily | [10]Weekly | [11]Publishers | [12]Search References 1. http://www.newsbytes.com/menus/navbar.map 2. http://www.newsbytes.com/OAS/rm/try-it.cgi/www.newsbytes.com/home.html 3. http://www.missingkids.com/ 4. http://www.missingkids.org/ 5. http://www.newsbytes.com/ 6. http://www.newsbytes.com/ 7. http://www.nbnn.com/copyrght.html 8. http://www.nbnn.com/home.html 9. http://www.nbnn.com/news/s_daily.html 10. http://www.nbnn.com/news/s_week.html 11. http://www.nbnn.com/publishers/publi_1.html 12. http://www.nbnn.com/html_p/search.html From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu Tue Sep 2 18:44:28 1997 From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (Damaged Justice) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:44:28 +0800 Subject: t0902mt01.html Message-ID: <199709030152.VAA07782@yakko.cs.wmich.edu> [1][LINK] Calgary Herald BUSINESS _________________________________________________________________ Managing Your Money [2]Stock and Mutual Fund Quotes [3]Your Investments [4]Family Finance [5]Columns [6]Technology [7]Stock News [8]Search --> [9][LINK] [10]Calgary Herald Online Home Page [Main Menu............] __ Press group refuses to join Internet rating scheme Amy Harmon The Ottawa Citizen A group of major news organizations took the digital high road last week. The group members -- which include Time, CNN, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Associated Press -- said they would allow their online editions to be rendered invisible to some Internet users rather than conform to a rating system that screens material dealing with sex or violence. "We support open access to information on the Internet," the group said in a statement. "And we will not rate our sites." That such a proclamation would be necessary, that it would be hashed out in a tense meeting that was closed -- oddly, given its agenda -- to reporters and that it would be considered an important step forward by many of the executives participating is itself a commentary on the uncertain state of the free press on the Internet. But the electronic news publishers left unresolved the more baffling question of how to wedge such a seemingly routine commitment to the U.S. constitution's free-speech guarantees into the architecture of cyberspace and the cultural politics of the United States in the late 1990s. The bind that Internet news providers find themselves in began with the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling earlier this summer that the Communications Decency Act was unconstitutional. The court found that the law, which banned the transmission of indecent material to minors over computer networks, was an overly broad restriction on speech -- in part because existing technology would allow parents to control their children's access to such material. Eager to head off regulation, the online industry expressed enthusiasm for various rating systems at a meeting convened by the Clinton administration after the decision. Microsoft and Netscape, which together control the market for the browsers used to navigate the World Wide Web, agreed to incorporate a standard for ratings in the next release of their software. Theoretically, the standard (known awkwardly as the Platform for Internet Content Selection, or PICS) would allow any entity from Good Housekeeping to the Spice Girls to create a rating system. The browser would recognize all of them, and parents could choose the one that best fit their world view, or at least the lens they wanted their children to see through. But so far, the only major group to use PICS has essentially adapted to the Web a rating system designed for video games. Under the Recreational Software Advisory Council system, sites rate themselves on a scale of one to four for nudity, sex, violence and offensive language. The council, a non-profit association of entertainment and computer companies, performs random checks to make sure sites are representing themselves correctly. Parents can set the level of each category that they wish to screen for, and, significantly, unrated sites are blocked out. So far, about 40,000 of the Web's nearly one million sites have used the system. News sites, however, have for the most part found the ratings either inapplicable or abhorrent. "The rating of content, particularly in the area of violence -- to tell people whether they should or shouldn't read about war in Bosnia -- takes news and turns it into a form of entertainment," said Daniel Okrent, editor of new media at Time. It is perhaps not surprising that an entertainment-based rating system would be incapable of describing the vast quantities and qualities of information on the Internet. Religious organizations and government agencies are also reportedly unhappy with the Recreational Software Advisory Council's limitations. But the problem is more than just a given rating system. It is inherent in the technology -- or at least the purpose it is being used to achieve. Because to screen out certain material, like sexual images, every site has to be labelled in some fashion. "In the real world, you don't know what you're going to get before you get it," said Paul Resnick, one of the creators of PICS. "We're trying to create an online world where you do know what you're going to get, and once you set that as your priority, you have to start classifying things." To accommodate the concerns of news sites, the Recreational Software Advisory Council has proposed a "news" label that would rate by category, not by content. But that raises the question of how and who would define which sites would bear the designation. The ratings group had appealed to the Internet Content Coalition, a loose alliance of online news organizations that organized last week's meeting, to serve as a monitoring body. The idea was denounced by several attendees, but they did not offer a better one. _________________________________________________________________ We welcome your suggestions; send e-mail to [11]online at theherald.southam.ca This web site is a supplement to the Calgary Herald, a daily newspaper published in [12]Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Contents copyright 1996. [ [13]Calgary Herald Home Page ] References 1. http://ads.galaxy.southam.com/OAS/rm/try-it.cgi/www.ch.com/b-mm-m-1.htm 2. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/finance/stocks&funds/overview.pl?paper=calgaryherald 3. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/newsnow.pl?nkey=ch&file=/business/investments/investments.html 4. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/newsnow.pl?nkey=ch&file=/business/familyfinance/familyfinance.html 5. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/newsnow.pl?nkey=ch&file=/business/columns/columns.html 6. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/newsnow.pl?nkey=ch&file=/business/technology/technology.html 7. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/newsnow.pl?nkey=ch&file=/business/markets/marketsmenu.html 8. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/cgi/newsnow.pl?nkey=ch&file=/business/search/searchch.html 9. http://ads.galaxy.southam.com/OAS/rm/try-it.cgi/www.ch.com/b-mm-b-1.htm 10. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald 11. mailto:online at theherald.southam.ca 12. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald/almanac/almanac.html 13. http://www.southam.com/calgaryherald From rah at shipwright.com Tue Sep 2 18:51:52 1997 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:51:52 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 11:58 am -0400 on 9/2/97, Tim May wrote: > At 5:43 AM -0700 9/2/97, Robert Hettinga wrote: > >So, Tim, what should we all be working on, in particular? > > OK, you asked. This isn't a comprehensive list. [outstanding non-comprehensive list snipped] So, Tim, does this mean that you're now willing to fund development of any of those things? Sorry to bait and switch you like that, Tim, but I had a point. That is, if it doesn't make money, it won't happen. Economic "utilitarianism", like the rest of reality, is not optional. > Also, 95% of the crap about "digital commerce" is merely a distraction. The > wrong direction, the wrong technology. Just "Visa on the Net," and hence of > no real use for our sorts of goals. Worse, the wrong direction. Agreed. Book-entry transactions on the internet are the functional equivalent of an electric car with a power cord. Or trying to make a supersonic derigible. And, the *only* way you can have bearer certificate transactions on the net of any non-repudiable strength is with cryptography. The strongest cryptographic protocols, for very little extra cost, are those involving anonymous bearer certificates, and so, I claim, anonymous bearer certificate protocols will eventually replace "Visa on the Net", with digital bearer forms of picocash, or macrobonds, or anonymously held equity or derivatives. You certainly can't do those anywhere, much less on the net, with book-entry settlement. The net, or the machines which use them, anyway, would choke on the overhead. The internet sees audit trails as damage and routes around them, to torture poor Gilmore's quote one more time... So, my goal is *not* to maximize privacy, because it's a natural consequence of my actual goal, which is reduce the cost of any given transaction by 3 or so orders of magnitude. To maximize profit, in other words. The way to do that, on a ubiquitous internet, is, paradoxically, with strong cryptography. That, I am sure, is a fundemental economic fact of the universe. Amazing, isn't it, that my goal and your goal get the same result of ubiquitous financial (and thus any other kind of) anonymity? Kind of like the neat way that some mathematics describes physical processes, or that aerodynamic flight, ostensibly orthogonal to economics, is cheaper than long distance surface travel, much less boyant flight, for moving people around. An argument that Hume would have loved, certainly. The connection between privacy and economic return is only constant conjunction, like the sun coming up tomorrow because it came up every morning in human memory. It's going to be just as predictable, though. So, getting back to my point, which Sameer and PGP and even RSA have proven already, and which lots of the rest of us hope to prove going forward, cryptoanarchy must pay for itself in order to be deployed. It's that simple. In other words, if you want to see it, Tim, and you can't build it yourself, hire it built, and see if it sells. It's risky, any investment is, but given your past financial success, you're demonstrably clueful enough to get a good return for any investment you make in cryptography. Cheers, Bob Hettinga - ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNAzBMMUCGwxmWcHhAQHGSQf/YVe284MvE+mptcsgMhFl+a1Uz1/dbCRM wd0f0MaQ1BPSGmXIkhcBjcLddy3jO5m6PBGpXCaJ1HAiCIu5Id6ocKURs4Y6SWD1 ntQCpfmfR8DWf6t7n0S9O0CadmtlPjRhv9jpT7yI5+QGc8RaIyXsTetdAZ8GXRFf /OjZ2ML5oKNer/7BwfKs+BYfFHxZIGTm7ocpliT4dfJGpXuBpMgjdNVrrrdKI5Ec PBR9RB/ct8I0bKg+GdmF2o4vwJlYGjT5tyIbKxEnSABsN/TgHYZXYgmqFg8woWDZ jbPIzSeeDUHlOZ7SuZqLhYc7ox+iM50hKwlOnZL/tW0pwHq2srqaqQ== =JGAl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From goddesshera at juno.com Tue Sep 2 19:24:18 1997 From: goddesshera at juno.com (Anonymous Remailer) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:24:18 +0800 Subject: U.S. Refugees Flee to Germany Message-ID: <19970902.200914.2511.6.goddesshera@juno.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 9:46 AM 8/28/1997, Tim May wrote: >At 8:20 AM -0700 8/28/97, Anonymous wrote: >>~Now, the pages are back online on a small server in Germany. Organizers >>of the site are raising funds to purchase their own direct connection to >>the Net. However they don't want their computer to be in the US-- but >>not because they plan to violate any US laws. "We are very nervous >>about being here," says Jim Finn, who helps run the Free Spirits, "if >>the government is going to use underhanded tactics to intimidate our >>providers and possibly confiscate our equipment." In the course of >>investigations, police frequently seize computers that they never >>return, even when they file no charges. >> >> Perhaps Germany should start building refugee camps for American >>homosexuals, Jews, and producers of strong encryption. >... > >I assume this is a joke, as Germany is one of the last places one would >choose for a censorship-free site! This should be a good candidate for the Eternity service. They aren't in the search engines yet. Anybody know how to reach them? >But I'll contact Jim Finn about hosting my "The So-Called Holocaust" Web >page, which explains how the International Jew Conspiracy has succeeded in >convincing the gullible that Jews were persecuted in the WW II, when all >right-thinking Aryans know full well that they were coddled and rewarded >and given choice vacation spots in "the East." >Free Spirits should be an ideal host for this material. Another good candidate for the Eternity service. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html "I AM a number! I am a free man!" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNAduupaWtjSmRH/5AQG/UQf7B+lpgip1gRLAduUrvOML3IyUbeYXQRQN WIkjupsjsnQzoJ3E26WSpbNKxaNaEgl5a3gtO2n+Ensu5u2pPjkRSANLOebANZbD np+OcKo9EcZhRcC3hPUho/M+2YaqwnUwfXs+qrzdSoRCCNzMEMjkFwAhrVyhT0t/ XeB9CBcZWNKMpV9Ty3TDhr9QIOUBy8XyLQBrMNkn8T06tzoND7Ts5v3AWzRY1dGU +vO/nwpHAu974JG4tWy2imeMzgApYVqg+wvK/8JO/YH9M9ig78ywAI6+IqebhqpU yPbs88SaKYeSt7+uEEYTQXX0W1sTy8CdOpaiiFoopOaEYh2nO8SwFQ== =pBPi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- This message was automatically remailed. The sender is unknown, unlogged, and nonreplyable. Send complaints and blocking requests to . From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu Tue Sep 2 19:42:27 1997 From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:42:27 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... Message-ID: <199709030236.WAA06659@www.video-collage.com> At 08:58 AM 9/2/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: ... >2. A usable form of Chaum's cash, a la Goldberg's or Schear's or Back's or >whomever's implementation. An evolution of Magic Money, Hashcash, etc., >using full strength algorithms. Backing can be decentralized. Less emphasis >on deals with banks, more emphasis on guerilla deployment, a la PGP. > >(Initial uses may be for illegal things, which may be a good thing for >deployment. Sex, for example, historically drives technologies like this. >Thus, one might imagine combining blinded (no puns, please) cash with >message pools to allow users to anonymously purchase JPEG images and have >the resultant images placed in a pool for their later browsing. If done on >a per image basis, for small amounts of digital cash, this could help users >get their feet wet and gain familiarity. Integration into browsers would >help.) ... How about this. The barter economy has predated the artificial construct that we know as money. It even predates the use of precious metals, which are pretty worthless for most uses. Get some non bank supporters to accept "coupons" for thier merchandise. At first, this could easily be information based. Make the "coupons" work on all of this initial merchandise, which can be sold again and again, so there's no great loss to the supporters. Granted, this brings us back to a form of money, but one based on commodies as opposed to worthless yellow metal that is only sought after because it doesn't corrode and is soft enough to work, (ignoring electronics, dental, and stained glass as more recent developments for the shiny stuff.) If PGP could be registered with a certain amount of these units, the same with other crypto applications, all the better. If people want this money, they can call up their friendly neighborhood software salesman and buy it knowing full well that if they ever want to, they can always trade it back for a good "DOOM97 Hell Freezes Over" game. They can take these signed DoomDollars to a moneychanger web site to change it for PGPdollars, BorlandBucks, BlowfishClams and Kongbucks, all at the current rate of change. Just a stream of thought. Maybe useful, maybe not. From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Sep 2 19:56:19 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:56:19 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! In-Reply-To: <199709022231.AAA10065@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > Made you look! Did the Queen cunt place any bets of Di's death recently? AP or not, all royal scum deserve to die in a gas chamber. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Sep 2 19:57:50 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:57:50 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970902151846.007d3c30@smtp1.abraxis.com> Message-ID: > |> >>>> > > > Information, please! > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. > |> >Don't spit, just swallow. > | >Don't touch anything. > Don't touch _there_. Don't let the bastards grind you down. From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Sep 2 20:02:21 1997 From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:02:21 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! In-Reply-To: <19970902225403.9059.qmail@zipcon.net> Message-ID: Mike Duvos writes: > Now that pictures of Princess Diana trapped in the wreckage have been > printed in European tabloids, it is only a matter of time before someone > scans them and posts them to alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless. > > Clicking on such pictures, of course, is not the moral equivalent of > having personally run Princess Diana off the road, regardless of what your > neighborhood CPAC member would like you to believe. This is off-topic, but... Why do people refer to the bastards who ran Di's card off the road by some weird italian name? They're JOURNALISTS. Just like Declan here. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From snow at smoke.suba.com Tue Sep 2 20:10:54 1997 From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:10:54 +0800 Subject: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: Cypherpunk Cults) In-Reply-To: <199708280445.XAA08389@mailhub.amaranth.com> Message-ID: <199709030105.UAA00525@smoke.suba.com> William said (and so did others): > >At 06:10 PM 8/27/97 PDT, John Smith wrote: > >>William H. Geiger III: > >>>In the Salem witch trial they were government trials (which were >based > >>>a political power struggle in Salem at the time) not lynch mobs. > >>And how about our gun-crazy friend, who'd shoot anybody who messed > >>dies? Sounds to me like we've got another shooting coming. Is that > >>the kind of world you want to live in? > >I like the little comment made in the first of MIB. And I paraphrase. > >Individuals are intelligent, people are stupid. No, people are stupid. Singly, in pairs, triples, or larger groups. I think it is just that the stupider people are attracted to large groups. > >Better ones would be the LA Riots and the famous broadcast of War of the > >Worlds. > And where were are beloved Police? Hiding elseware eating thier donuts > becuse they were too *chicken shit* to do thier job. It only goes to show Were I an honest cop during that period of time, and assuming that we got *something resembling the truth* from the media (eventually) you can bet your bottom dollar I'd have turned in my badge and left town for healthier climates. > that when the chips are really down you can not count on the government to > save you. When the chips are down, you'd better count on nothing but yourself. > And before anyone ask yes I think that every rat bastard involved in the > riots should have been shot on sight. I think that every rat bastard that *DIDN'T* go after the cops should have been shot. Those that went after the police stations should have just been beaten severly... From snow at smoke.suba.com Tue Sep 2 20:15:23 1997 From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:15:23 +0800 Subject: Monkey Wrench into the works In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970828005458.3ae7e2f2@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199709030109.UAA00549@smoke.suba.com> > On 8/27/97, James A. Donald replied paraphrasing Ben Franklin, > (who really knew very little about cryptography): > >What one man knows, nobody knows. > >What two men know, everyone knows. > >Shared secrets just don't work. > > Clearly in many cases parties must share secrets. > You and your bank keep mutual secrets about your money. Execpt that the bank lets the government in on it. > You and your doctor keep mutually secret medical data. Execpt in certain circumstances, when the doctor is legally bound to report your illness. Or when your chart is handled by 20 or 30 people in a hospital. Or when the doctor makes a remark to his lover/wife/mistress/boyfriend about your case. From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 20:26:01 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:26:01 +0800 Subject: Things we should be working on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:25 PM -0700 9/2/97, Robert Hettinga wrote: >So, Tim, does this mean that you're now willing to fund development of any >of those things? ... >In other words, if you want to see it, Tim, and you can't build it >yourself, hire it built, and see if it sells. It's risky, any investment >is, but given your past financial success, you're demonstrably clueful >enough to get a good return for any investment you make in cryptography. > Sorry I "donated" my time making up this list, given the messages I'm seeing and the private chastisements of me for daring to suggest. Apparently some of you think that only full-time C or Java programmers are qualified to make suggestions. And spare me the lectures on Capitalism 101. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 20:26:04 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:26:04 +0800 Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:05 PM -0700 9/2/97, Greg Broiles wrote: >A more useful way to avoid corrections/citations/clarifications might be >simply getting the details correct in the first place. > And a hearty fuck you to you as well. Jeesh. You'll probably make a fine lawyer. There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From bd1011 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 2 20:35:14 1997 From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (nobuki nakatuji) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:35:14 +0800 Subject: RC2,RC4,CDMF algorithm Message-ID: <19970903032213.26099.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anybody know RC2,RC4,CDMF algorithm? If you know these algorithm, Please show me these algorithm. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From remailer at bureau42.ml.org Tue Sep 2 20:44:42 1997 From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:44:42 +0800 Subject: Clinton, Commerce, and Crypto scandal Message-ID: Ira Sockowitz moved from commerce to SBA taking a few things with him: An excerpt: The classified information Sockowitz took was so sensitive it threatened to put the National Security Agency, or NSA, out of business, because the files included information about encryption chips (which safeguard computers) that the spy agency itself can't break. These are files for which high-tech companies lust and countries would kill. http://members.aol.com/beachbt/socko.htm From brianbr at together.net Tue Sep 2 20:49:18 1997 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:49:18 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <199709030342.XAA10226@mx01.together.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 9/2/97 9:28 PM, Jonathan Wienke (JonWienk at ix.netcom.com) passed this wisdom: >What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall >not be infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, >U.S. Constitution) > >When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just >the police. Just curious, where did you ever get the idea that criminals fear the police? The way our system works these days, the police are hardly more than an annoyance and inconvenience (unless of course an NYC cop asks if you want to go to the bathroom!) rather than to be feared. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNAzcg8dZgC62U/gIEQLHxgCfTSfMBGA7bf4jWPQD4ATa6Gn2AEEAmgMV QvRO7Ta6RadyVeNYqdnx6+vw =VoET -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys - Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key" "When you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform." -- Mark Twain From enoch at zipcon.net Tue Sep 2 21:09:59 1997 From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:09:59 +0800 Subject: Missing Kids and Porn Links In-Reply-To: <199709030151.VAA07747@yakko.cs.wmich.edu> Message-ID: <19970903035857.3253.qmail@zipcon.net> Damaged Justice writes: > The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children > (NCMEC) encourages the owners of Web sites to add a link > that will bring up the picture of a different missing child > every ten minutes. According to Ruben Rodriguez, Supervisor > of the Exploited Child Unit, the Center is getting 70 to 80 > requests a day for information to create the link. Some > sites, however, have taken the initiative themselves, > including pornographic Web sites. > One popular porn site proclaims on its home page that, > "This Site Cares About Our Young Children! Please Take A Few > Seconds To Look At The Pictures Of The Missing Children!! > Every Ten Minutes When You Reload A Different Child's > Picture Appears! If We Can Save Just ONE! Then Wouldn't That > Be Worth It?" That particular site, said Rodriguez, will get > a cease and desist letter from the Center's chief legal > counsel. The thing to realize here is that NCMEC is an agency which receives almost 100% of its funding from government agencies, one of which is the Juvenile Justice division of the US DOJ. It has about as much to do with childrens' rights as aardvarks have to do with starship design. It exists primarily so that news organizations can point and say "Childrens' Advocates Praised the President's Decision" every time childrens' civil liberties are further reduced, or some laughable new definition of child porn is criminalized. In addition, it helps to conduct the war against imagined pedophiles, both at home and abroad, and enforces the property rights of parents against any minor under the age of 18 who dares to leave their bed and board. These two agendas may be easily combined, since if one is not with ones parents, one is obviously in the clutches of an exaltation of pedophiles grooming one for a life of sexual depravity. While reasonable people would see little problem in popular adult web sites also posting missing childrens' pictures, NCMEC toes the child sex hysteric party line, and accepts links only from ideologically pure "Save the Children" organizations, like CPAC, which engage in content-based harrassment of perfectly legal material, and which subscribe to the doctrine of "Voodoo Molestation" when otherwise ordinary photographs are viewed. If you're a missing or exploited child, seek the services of a good childrens' legal advocate, not NCMEC, unless of course you wish to have your picture on numerous grocery items, be returned to your parents in handcuffs, and be used to promote someone elses political agenda, the only "services" NCMEC has ever managed to provide to children in need. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ enoch at zipcon.com $ via Finger $ {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell} From sunder at brainlink.com Tue Sep 2 21:37:57 1997 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:37:57 +0800 Subject: Clinton, Commerce, and Crypto scandal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote: > Ira Sockowitz moved from commerce to SBA taking a few things with him: > > An excerpt: > > The classified information Sockowitz took was so sensitive it threatened > to put the National Security Agency, or NSA, out of business, because the > files included information about encryption chips (which safeguard > computers) that the spy agency itself can't break. These are files for > which high-tech companies lust and countries would kill. > > http://members.aol.com/beachbt/socko.htm And he didn't like happen to post all those plans and files on the net did he? too bad... :I =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From Abstruse at technologist.com Tue Sep 2 21:38:12 1997 From: Abstruse at technologist.com (Abstruse) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:38:12 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: <199709022232.AAA10117@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <340CE6B5.7CB3@technologist.com> Anonymous wrote: > > > > |> >>Dave K-P writes: > > > |> >> > > > |> >>>> > > > Information, please! > > > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > > > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > > > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > > > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. > > > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow. > > > | >Don't touch anything. > > > Don't touch _there_. > > Never piss into the wind. > Don't pull on a psycho's cape. Don't jump to confusions.. From anon at anon.efga.org Tue Sep 2 21:40:58 1997 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:40:58 +0800 Subject: Diana on a stick Message-ID: <16f3cc8e4270d773fea83227ae514a06@anon.efga.org> Rumor has it that Princess Diana will be put on a barbeque-style spit in her coffin, so that when the Buckingham Palace spin doctors are done with her, she will be able to roll over in her grave at a high rate of speed. Dr. Roberts ~~~~~~~~~~~ From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Sep 2 21:46:24 1997 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:46:24 +0800 Subject: Missing Kids and Porn Links In-Reply-To: <19970903035857.3253.qmail@zipcon.net> Message-ID: <199709030438.XAA17630@manifold.algebra.com> Most of people who publicly "care for children" are hidden pedophiles or control freaks, in my humble opinion. igor Mike Duvos wrote: > > > Damaged Justice writes: > > > The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children > > (NCMEC) encourages the owners of Web sites to add a link > > that will bring up the picture of a different missing child > > every ten minutes. According to Ruben Rodriguez, Supervisor > > of the Exploited Child Unit, the Center is getting 70 to 80 > > requests a day for information to create the link. Some > > sites, however, have taken the initiative themselves, > > including pornographic Web sites. > > > One popular porn site proclaims on its home page that, > > "This Site Cares About Our Young Children! Please Take A Few > > Seconds To Look At The Pictures Of The Missing Children!! > > Every Ten Minutes When You Reload A Different Child's > > Picture Appears! If We Can Save Just ONE! Then Wouldn't That > > Be Worth It?" That particular site, said Rodriguez, will get > > a cease and desist letter from the Center's chief legal > > counsel. > > The thing to realize here is that NCMEC is an agency which > receives almost 100% of its funding from government agencies, one > of which is the Juvenile Justice division of the US DOJ. > > It has about as much to do with childrens' rights as aardvarks > have to do with starship design. It exists primarily so that > news organizations can point and say "Childrens' Advocates > Praised the President's Decision" every time childrens' civil > liberties are further reduced, or some laughable new definition > of child porn is criminalized. > > In addition, it helps to conduct the war against imagined > pedophiles, both at home and abroad, and enforces the property > rights of parents against any minor under the age of 18 who dares > to leave their bed and board. These two agendas may be easily > combined, since if one is not with ones parents, one is obviously > in the clutches of an exaltation of pedophiles grooming one for a > life of sexual depravity. > > While reasonable people would see little problem in popular adult > web sites also posting missing childrens' pictures, NCMEC toes > the child sex hysteric party line, and accepts links only from > ideologically pure "Save the Children" organizations, like CPAC, > which engage in content-based harrassment of perfectly legal > material, and which subscribe to the doctrine of "Voodoo > Molestation" when otherwise ordinary photographs are viewed. > > If you're a missing or exploited child, seek the services of a > good childrens' legal advocate, not NCMEC, unless of course you > wish to have your picture on numerous grocery items, be returned > to your parents in handcuffs, and be used to promote someone > elses political agenda, the only "services" NCMEC has ever > managed to provide to children in need. > > -- > Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ > enoch at zipcon.com $ via Finger $ > {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell} > - Igor. From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Sep 2 21:56:08 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:56:08 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! Message-ID: <199709030442.GAA19840@basement.replay.com> At 09:43 PM 9/2/97 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >Mike Duvos writes: > >> Now that pictures of Princess Diana trapped in the wreckage have been >> printed in European tabloids, it is only a matter of time before someone >> scans them and posts them to alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless. >> >> Clicking on such pictures, of course, is not the moral equivalent of >> having personally run Princess Diana off the road, regardless of what your >> neighborhood CPAC member would like you to believe. > >This is off-topic, but... Why do people refer to the bastards who ran >Di's card off the road by some weird italian name? In a case of Worst Timing Ever by an advertiser, Weight Watchers flyers hit the mailboxes in our area on Friday. They feature a cheesecake shot of Lady Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York, saying that losing weight is: "HARDER than outrunning the papparazzi" I guess fat people are doomed. From remailer at bureau42.ml.org Tue Sep 2 22:11:43 1997 From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:11:43 +0800 Subject: Adding Memory to the Net Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- This is an interesting proposal. It would be easier for people who are new to this business if there were more specifics about how this would be implemented. I'm sure you have particular techniques in mind for splitting the data across servers, etc., but everybody else doesn't necessarily know what they are. Examples are nice because you can go over them one bit at a time. Here are some ignorant comments and questions. Mike Duvos wrote: > Bob makes a secure connection to a Trusted Agent doing business... Why is the Trusted Agent necessary? What does the agent do that Bob couldn't do himself? It seems like Bob could split up the data and pay the servers to hold it just as well as the agent. And he wouldn't have to trust anybody. > For the next 100 days, Bob and all of his friends may use the 256 > bit TAG/CONTEXT pair in place of Bob's data and may serve that data > for free any number of times off any network file system server. Or the people getting the data could also pay small fee for good service. Like a tip, if storing the data itself is the dominant cost. This makes it harder to attack the servers by saturating them with requests for data. Usenet has traditionally been free for posters. This model could continue if there were users who were willing to pay to see other people's posts. Servers would keep the data around so long as there seemed to be people asking for it. You could imagine the price going up over time as fewer people want to see it. At some point not enough people may want to pay as much money so it goes away. In this model the server operators would just be information speculators. And, if The Bad Guys started knocking out servers, there would be a powerful financial incentive to start serving the information that was eliminated since its market price should go up. > After 100 days, bob may fork over another 10 cents for another 100 > days, or his data will disappear. The TAG assigned to an Octet > String is unique, and no two strings have the same TAG, and no > string is ever assigned multiple tags, no matter how often it may be > entered and purged from the system. It would be nice if the ten cents sells a promise by the server to make the data available for some period of time in a way which is independently auditable. If the server stops carrying the data, Bob can publish his proof that he was defrauded. Because the facts would not be in doubt, it would be unlikely to happen frequently. > Users could boot their machines off the Network, and instantly see > gigabytes of software available to them. After syncing their cache > file system with the network, they could drop their PC off the roof, > buy another one, and by typing in just one TAG/CONTEXT pair, see all > their files again. This is very cool. You can hide 256 bits pretty easily, which makes The Great Satan's job harder. > Aside from replication done for reliability, there should be only > one copy of a file in the system at any time. If multiple users > submit the same file, there should be no more copies than if one > user submitted it. Would this really be worth the effort? If Bob wants to pay to put the file up twice, why not let just let him? Just Another Cypherpunk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNAuAZv+1rw4IkyBFAQG3WQf9EBR/peMkdc+0WT5W6O+L9KMf69artRy9 Fg8kCObbHlYEn/rCd0DRJ+Hd9YLfBz8aeo7YqaU3Lawe9+WW5hH0HbSYZe6vXeBN M5VKW4HJpcY4zapc1DCdCPW72KnWZjlrOsP3X+r1yi1KrLlsORNkl3M85dhS5vLz YRoZIIZE51vmrnV3mCA0dClljP2+e4c7FmxtO36spi7n/PPVwkP7xtHqsy762Ex/ iyxyRXCWnPMFHy0tJRWi25HeGqC2IRg22zQ5zk36c6z/JPS92Yabix/rnVWcazP4 3OnmT+nF3xy3mtdx9eMbPTBvxY28uOq+q2k/0/KjNmDjVRPRl2mlvw== =quQD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From enoch at zipcon.net Tue Sep 2 22:22:50 1997 From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:22:50 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19970903051312.12398.qmail@zipcon.net> Dr. Vulis writes: > This is off-topic, but... Why do people refer to the bastards who ran > Di's car off the road by some weird italian name? In 1958, there was an Italian photographer named Tazio Secchiaroli who discovered that newspapers would pay big money for pictures of "surprised" celebrities. He is best known for a photograph of Egypt's King Farouk overturning a restaurant table in frustration after being harrassed during his meal. When Federico Fellini made his 1960 film, "La Dolce Vita," where Marcello Mastroianni played a frustrated gossip columnist, he created a photographer sidekick for him based on Secchiaroli which he named "Parparazzo" in the film. Since then, annoying photographers seeking to intrude upon celebrities and provoke them into performing for the camera have been referred to as "Paparazzi." -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ enoch at zipcon.com $ via Finger $ {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell} From anon at anon.efga.org Tue Sep 2 22:57:30 1997 From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:57:30 +0800 Subject: Meet-in-the-middle attack Message-ID: Timmy C[retin] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug. (((> /< ( / ((({{{{{:< Timmy C[retin] May \ \< From frantz at netcom.com Tue Sep 2 23:02:09 1997 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:02:09 +0800 Subject: Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves Message-ID: ####################################################### Telecoms Newsline A News Service for Telecoms Professionals Sponsored by Hewlett-Packard Issue 48: 2 September 1997 http://www.telecomsnewsline.com ######################################################## Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves ------------------------------------------------------ The European Commission (EC) has warned the US regulator, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), that its unilateral action (see TN 46) could jeopardise the World Trade Organisation agreement on telecoms. The FCC has rejected the WTO agreements sanctioned by the ITU, and intends to impose its own cost-based accounting tariff for international call terminations. The US suffers an enormous trade deficit in telecoms services because its international calls are much cheaper than those in many other countries. This means that far more traffic originates in the US for termination overseas than comes in from abroad, resulting in American international operators paying out more than US$5 billion per year to foreign carriers for the termination of calls. The FCC has come up with its own benchmarking scheme which will be introduced over the next five years. This has enraged many nations who view it as dictatorial; it is also against the multilateral approach of the WTO agreement. Furthermore, in the absence of accurate data, the FCC has used countries� GDP (rather than how much it costs overseas operators to handle calls) to set the settlement rates that US operators will be obliged to pay overseas carriers in future. At the moment the FCC feels that many countries� accounting rates are inflated and bear no relation to the actual cost of providing the service. Poorer countries claim that it costs them much more to handle calls because they struggle with antiquated infrastructure and that they need the revenue from high accounting rates to cover the cost of modernising their networks. In addition, for less developed economies, the monies they receive in settlement rates are a precious source of hard currency. The debate looks set to run and run with the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) stuck between a rock and hard place, trying to find a compromise that is acceptable to all parties. ######################################################## Telecoms Newsline {c} 1997 Hewlett-Packard Co. Editor: Peter Judge Contributor: Annie Turner To subscribe to Telecoms Newsline send mail to with 'subscribe hp and your e-mail address' in message body. To unsubscribe, send mail to with 'unsubscribe and your e-mail address' in or message body. Or visit our website at http://www.telecomsnewsline.com If you like us, pass it on. This publication is free and may be re-posted. Entire issues may be posted without alteration or editing. Individual stories may also be re-posted, with this message attached. If you want to re-post all issues to a Web site or list, please appreciate our work by telling us. As Telecoms Newsline is available globally on the Internet, we cannot guarantee price or availability of products in your area. Editorial comments or questions please mailto:publisher at telecomsnewsline.com ######################################################## ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The Internet was designed | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | to protect the free world | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | from hostile governments. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From abrams at philos.umass.edu Tue Sep 2 23:09:20 1997 From: abrams at philos.umass.edu (Integration) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:09:20 +0800 Subject: Information Message-ID: <199709030603.CAA18347@wilde.oit.umass.edu> > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > |> >>Dave K-P writes: > > > > |> >> > > > > |> >>>> > > > Information, please! > > > > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > > > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > > > > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > > > > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > > > > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. > > > > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow. > > > > | >Don't touch anything. > > > > Don't touch _there_. > > > Never piss into the wind. > > Don't pull on a psycho's cape. > Don't jump to confusions.. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. From tm at dev.null Tue Sep 2 23:16:30 1997 From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:16:30 +0800 Subject: Jim Bell Information In-Reply-To: <199709022232.AAA10117@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <340CF99F.6B6F@dev.null> > > > |> >>Dave K-P writes: > > > |> >> > > > |> >>>> > > > Information, please! > > > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach. > > > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys. > > > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers. > > > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell. > > > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow. > > > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow. > > > | >Don't touch anything. > > > Don't touch _there_. > > Never piss into the wind. > Don't pull on a psycho's cape. Don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger and don't mess around with Jim From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Sep 2 23:21:08 1997 From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:21:08 +0800 Subject: Missing Kids and Porn Links Message-ID: <199709030605.IAA27215@basement.replay.com> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Most of people who publicly "care for children" are hidden pedophiles or > control freaks, in my humble opinion. I agree. Does anyone have any pointers to child pornography sites, so that I can warn people which sites to avoid? T.C. Mayonnaise "Hey little girl, want to make some mayonnaise with _real_ eggs?" From tcmay at got.net Tue Sep 2 23:38:01 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:38:01 +0800 Subject: Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:52 PM -0700 9/2/97, Bill Frantz wrote: >####################################################### ... >Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves >------------------------------------------------------ >The European Commission (EC) has warned the US regulator, the Federal >Communications Commission (FCC), that its unilateral action (see TN >46) could jeopardise the World Trade Organisation agreement on >telecoms. The FCC has rejected the WTO agreements sanctioned by the >ITU, and intends to impose its own cost-based accounting tariff for >international call terminations. > >The US suffers an enormous trade deficit in telecoms services >because its international calls are much cheaper than those in many >other countries. This means that far more traffic originates in the >US for termination overseas than comes in from abroad, resulting in >American international operators paying out more than US$5 billion >per year to foreign carriers for the termination of calls. ... The basic flaw in all of these analyses stems from lumping all of these market transactions together into national bins. The whole "trade deficit" talk, on all sides, suffers from this fatal flaw. If Company A in nominal nation AA gets more business than Company B in nominal nation BB, the pundits call this "imbalanced trade." I call it knowing where the bargains are. Can't we spare one of our nukes for Brussels? And another for Cherbourg, or wherever it is the EC has its other HQ? (Note to Greg Broiles: You will undoubtedly claim that I should check my facts more thoroughly before sending this message. When you start paying me $150 an hour (cheap by attorney's inflated fee schedules) I will promise to spend an extra 10-20 minutes per post doing Web searches to verify trivial details.) --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From tm at dev.null Tue Sep 2 23:38:48 1997 From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:38:48 +0800 Subject: Missing Kids and Porn Links In-Reply-To: <199709030151.VAA07747@yakko.cs.wmich.edu> Message-ID: <340D004C.21D2@dev.null> Damaged Justice wrote: > [Relevant for all recent discussions on "linking without permission", as > well as the usual childpornhysteriamongering.] > [2]Newsbytes Advertising > Missing Children Pix On Websites Overpopular > > ****Missing Children Pix On Websites Overpopular 09/02/97 SEATTLE, > WASHINGTON, U.S.A., 1997 AUG 29 (NB) -- By Bruce Miller. The National > Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) encourages the > owners of Web sites to add a link that will bring up the picture of a > different missing child every ten minutes. According to Ruben > Rodriguez, Supervisor of the Exploited Child Unit, the Center is > getting 70 to 80 requests a day for information to create the link. > Some sites, however, have taken the initiative themselves, including > pornographic Web sites. > > "This is the kiss of death for us," said Rodriguez. "We want the > public to help us find missing and exploited children. The Internet > public is coming to us to display our banner on our sites. > Unfortunately, there are some locations on the Internet that are > inappropriate." We *must* take immediate action to prevent missing children from being found by people who don't consider nudity shameful, people who smoke, fat people, Jewish people, people with more than three speeding tickets... ConcernedMonger From rh at dev.null Tue Sep 2 23:40:57 1997 From: rh at dev.null (Robert Hettingazzi) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:40:57 +0800 Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!! In-Reply-To: <19970903051312.12398.qmail@zipcon.net> Message-ID: <340CFFD0.E9A@dev.null> "I *lov'a* dis'a leest!" Mike Duvos wrote: > > Dr. Vulis writes: > > > This is off-topic, but... Why do people refer to the bastards who ran > > Di's car off the road by some weird italian name? > > In 1958, there was an Italian photographer named Tazio Secchiaroli who > discovered that newspapers would pay big money for pictures of "surprised" > celebrities. He is best known for a photograph of Egypt's King Farouk > overturning a restaurant table in frustration after being harrassed during > his meal. > > When Federico Fellini made his 1960 film, "La Dolce Vita," where Marcello > Mastroianni played a frustrated gossip columnist, he created a > photographer sidekick for him based on Secchiaroli which he named > "Parparazzo" in the film. > > Since then, annoying photographers seeking to intrude upon celebrities and > provoke them into performing for the camera have been referred to as > "Paparazzi." > > -- > Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ > enoch at zipcon.com $ via Finger $ > {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell} From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 2 23:44:21 1997 From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:44:21 +0800 Subject: Information In-Reply-To: <199709030342.XAA10226@mx01.together.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970902234544.006e53c8@popd.netcruiser> At 11:42 PM 9/2/97 -0400, anti-matter aliens from another dimension tortured Brian until he wrote: >On 9/2/97 9:28 PM, Jonathan Wienke (JonWienk at ix.netcom.com) passed >this wisdom: [Editor's note: this must be how wisdom is like flatus.] >>What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall >>not be infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, >>U.S. Constitution) >> >>When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just >>the police. > > Just curious, where did you ever get the idea that criminals fear the >police? The way our system works these days, the police are hardly >more than an annoyance and inconvenience (unless of course an NYC cop >asks if you want to go to the bathroom!) rather than to be feared. You are right, of course, to a point. Criminal don't fear cops like vampires fear wooden stakes, or like certain politicians / three-letter-agencies fear and loathe private gun ownership, or like most women fear most spiders and snakes. However, most criminals do make some effort to avoid committing crimes in the presence of law enforcement officers, and try to avoid capture and incarceration by same. (Those who don't, appear on "America's Dumbest Criminals" or White House press briefings, I forget which...) On the other hand, a homeowner with a 12-gauge riot shotgun or a Desert Eagle .44 Magnum pistol can instill fear into almost any criminal, even the stupid ones. (The only thing I don't like about the Eagle is that a 75+ ounce pistol is rather difficult to conceal. I have a shoulder holster for mine, and I have to carry four magazines on the off side so I don't walk like Quasimodo. :) Even a Jennings .22 can ruin a mugger's day, assuming that it doesn't jam, and you can hit anything with it. Jonathan Wienke What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, U.S. Constitution) When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just the police. PGP 2.6.2 RSA Key Fingerprint: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 DSS/D-H Key Fingerprint: 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC Public keys available at pgpkeys.mit.edu. PGP encrypted e-mail preferred. US/Canadian Windows 95/NT or Mac users: Get Eudora Light + PGP 5.0 for free at http://www.eudora.com/eudoralight/ Get PGP 5.0 for free at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pgp-form.html Other PGP 5.0 sources: http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/ http://www.heise.de/ct/pgpCA/download.shtml ftp://ftp.pca.dfn.de/pub/pgp/V5.0/ ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/pc/win95/pgp ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/mac/pgp http://www.shopmiami.com/utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/pgp/pgp50/win/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Cypherpunks are in no position to make remarks about Jewish racism. Jews were far more welcoming to such as Sammy Davis, Jr. than many cypherpunks would be. "Off my porch, nigger!" would be the undoubted greeting from some of our ostensible leaders, as they take shotgun in hand. From tcmay at got.net Wed Sep 3 00:18:04 1997 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:18:04 +0800 Subject: Fate of Jews in America (fwd) In-Reply-To: <18adffbcbf3db09095d3735819c68cbc@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: At 11:35 PM -0700 9/2/97, Anonymous wrote: >Cypherpunks are in no position to make remarks about Jewish racism. > >Jews were far more welcoming to such as Sammy Davis, Jr. than many >cypherpunks would be. "Off my porch, nigger!" would be the undoubted >greeting from some of our ostensible leaders, as they take shotgun in >hand. If the nigger demanded entrance to my porch, or snuck in at night, then I would indeed fill the nigger with buckshot. Ditto for the honkey. Or the slope. If, however, the black or white or whatever acted in a nonthreatening, nondemanding, mutually voluntary way, why would I care what his melanin level was? Nothing in this "Sammy Davis" you refer to suggests he forced his way onto anyone's porch. (If he did, then of course he should have been shot dead.) There are blacks in the Cypherpunks group. some of whom have come to CP meetings in the Bay Area. I don't recall anyone chasing them off with shotguns or AR-15s, or even making racist comments. (It is true that the vast majority of Cypherpunks are basically libertarian, and hence are not keen on government programs to favor one race or sex or group over another. Jesse Jackson calls this point of view "racism." "Ending discrimination in favor of some races is racism," he claims. Most list members would reject this.) Besides, in a society with strong crypto, how are you or any government going to stop people from dealing with whomever they wish, on whatever basis they wish? --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From naoqize at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 3 15:22:51 1997 From: naoqize at worldnet.att.net (Someone Who Cares!) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: READ THIS, THIS IS NOT JUNK E-MAIL!!! Message-ID: <199709031043VAA806@post.ix.netcom.com> 

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From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 00:28:48 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:28:48 +0800
Subject: Things we should be working on...
In-Reply-To: <5uhpc1$vf2$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903001204.0305f980@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 12:56 PM 9/2/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>My understanding was that you had to do most of your work in Canada because
>of U.S. restrictions on those with student visas?
>Certainly you are just as much in violations of the EARS by going to Canada
>to do your crypto work as Rivest and Company would be in by crossing into
>Canada to develop stuff for RSADSI.
>Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you're missing that Ian's a Canadian, not subject to US laws when
he's not in US territory, unlike Rivest (but not unlike Shamir.)
Taking working papers with him might be an export problem, but 
taking ideas in his head isn't, and when he's at home, he can work,
subject to Canadian limits on writing, publishing, and internetting crypto.
If he wants to sell products based on his crypto work,
there may be student visa issues involved, but there's a Canadian corporation
that can take care of some of those problems for him.


#			Thanks;  Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
#   (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies.  Thanks.)






From staff at mailcorporation.com  Wed Sep  3 18:44:48 1997
From: staff at mailcorporation.com (staff at mailcorporation.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 35,000,000 People...
Message-ID: <199709040126.SAA15956@sweden.it.earthlink.net>


Would you be interested in...

* Sending out Bulk Email for FREE?
* Receiving 35,000,000 Email Addresses FREE of charge?
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  or Web Page to over 250,000 people per day?
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  over 25,000 Newsgroups in under 3 Hours?

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From staff at mailcorporation.com  Wed Sep  3 18:51:37 1997
From: staff at mailcorporation.com (staff at mailcorporation.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 35,000,000 People...
Message-ID: <199709040130.SAA17448@sweden.it.earthlink.net>


Would you be interested in...

* Sending out Bulk Email for FREE?
* Receiving 35,000,000 Email Addresses FREE of charge?
* Sending out Bulk Email using your CURRENT Internet Account
  without EVER having to worry about it being canceled?
* Sending out a FREE Bulk Email Advertisement for your Business
  or Web Page to over 250,000 people per day?
* Posting a FREE Advertisement for your Business or Web Page to
  over 25,000 Newsgroups in under 3 Hours?

You may shudder at the thought of Bulk Email.. but the simple
truth is.. BULK EMAIL WORKS!  By sending out Bulk Email, you are
reaching up to 250,000 people per day for FREE with an unlimited
length advertisement for your business or web page!

To find out how to do all of this and more for FREE, email our
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From cjb at dev.null  Wed Sep  3 03:57:02 1997
From: cjb at dev.null (Compromise-John Bullers)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:57:02 +0800
Subject: Meet-in-the-middle attack
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <340D2A3D.B69@dev.null>



Graham-John Bullers wrote:
> 
> I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.

Why don't we send just five copies back to him. Is that acceptable to
everybody?

Compromise-John Bullers






From staff at mailcorporation.com  Wed Sep  3 18:57:46 1997
From: staff at mailcorporation.com (staff at mailcorporation.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 35,000,000 People...
Message-ID: <199709040134.SAB18988@sweden.it.earthlink.net>


Would you be interested in...

* Sending out Bulk Email for FREE?
* Receiving 35,000,000 Email Addresses FREE of charge?
* Sending out Bulk Email using your CURRENT Internet Account
  without EVER having to worry about it being canceled?
* Sending out a FREE Bulk Email Advertisement for your Business
  or Web Page to over 250,000 people per day?
* Posting a FREE Advertisement for your Business or Web Page to
  over 25,000 Newsgroups in under 3 Hours?

You may shudder at the thought of Bulk Email.. but the simple
truth is.. BULK EMAIL WORKS!  By sending out Bulk Email, you are
reaching up to 250,000 people per day for FREE with an unlimited
length advertisement for your business or web page!

To find out how to do all of this and more for FREE, email our
autoresponder at: free at nim.com

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From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Wed Sep  3 03:59:07 1997
From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:59:07 +0800
Subject: Meet-in-the-middle attack
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.

On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote:

> Timmy C[retin] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug.
> 
>     (((>     /<
>    (        /
>     ((({{{{{:<  Timmy C[retin] May
>             \
>              \<
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graham-John Bullers                      Moderator of alt.2600.moderated   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    email :  : 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 03:59:51 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:59:51 +0800
Subject: Clinton, Commerce, and Crypto scandal
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903010757.0305ab88@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 01:56 AM 9/3/97 GMT, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>Ira Sockowitz moved from commerce to SBA taking a few things with him:
>
>An excerpt:
>
>The classified information Sockowitz took was so sensitive it threatened
>to put the National Security Agency, or NSA, out of business, because the
>files included information about encryption chips (which safeguard
>computers) that the spy agency itself can't break. These are files for
>which high-tech companies lust and countries would kill. 
>
>http://members.aol.com/beachbt/socko.htm

Tim Maier's Insight article isn't all that bad, but he obviously doesn't have
a good perspective on crypto technology, and unfortunately none of the
web pages involved contain good email pointers to their authors :-)
	(On the other hand, one of the references said Dave Sobel has copies.)

Encryption technology the NSA can't break is easy; you've been
able to get PGP for about 5 years from Internet sites at
Oxford and various other Finnish, Italian, and North American 
universities, plus lots of good books and conference proceedings.
Far more interesting is insight into what they _can_ break :-)
Also, the documentation about NSA market studies on encryption,
strategies on controlling it, etc., would be amusing to read.

I can't comment usefully on Uranium shipments or satellite technology.
However, some of the writing about Lockheed and Iridium was a bit
on the sensationalist side.  In particular, the assertion that
Lockheed only gave one political contribution in 1993, before this
scandal and (mostly) before Iridium, vs. lots in 1995-1996, is silly.
1992 was an election year, 1994 was Congressional elections,
and 1993 was the mostly quiet time in between.  Given the numbers of
major defense procurements Lockheed's been involved in over the years,
I'd be surprised if they aren't making political contributions like
everyone else in the industry -- they just make them at times they're useful,
and Iridium is just another project.

#			Thanks;  Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
#   (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies.  Thanks.)






From Uran233 at aol.com  Wed Sep  3 04:00:02 1997
From: Uran233 at aol.com (Uran233 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:02 +0800
Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab
Message-ID: <970903045841_1919366449@emout04.mail.aol.com>



Yes but the NSA really wanted the Skipjack for DOD messsages. They (probably)
monitor all of those anyway. But Matt did alot of work on his project but did
he show how to brak Skipjack and does this totally trash the Fortezza
 program? I being niaive would not belive that the NSA would let the process
continue if it was unsecure, of cousre if they can read all the messages and
are sure that others can not. Maybe it is secure except for NSA. But does
that mean it is not a good algorithm? DES stood around for a long time, in
the public sense.  But no one knos if there is a trapdoor. Of course I may be
all wrong her but it is a thouhht






From Abstruse at technologist.com  Wed Sep  3 04:00:13 1997
From: Abstruse at technologist.com (Abstruse)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:13 +0800
Subject: Information (yeah, two in one night..so sue..)
In-Reply-To: <199709030603.CAA18347@wilde.oit.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <340D0EB0.6D14@technologist.com>



Integration wrote:
> 
> > Anonymous wrote:
> > >
> > > > > |> >>Dave K-P  writes:
> > > > > |> >>
> > > > > |> >>>> > > > Information, please!
> > > > > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach.
> > > > > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys.
> > > > > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers.
> > > > > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell.
> > > > > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow.
> > > > > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow.
> > > > > | >Don't touch anything.
> > > > > Don't touch _there_.
> > > > Never piss into the wind.
> > > Don't pull on a psycho's cape.
> > Don't jump to confusions..
> Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Don't *hate* the media..
*become* the media" - Jello Biafra






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Wed Sep  3 04:00:24 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:24 +0800
Subject: Information (yeah, two in one night..so sue..)
Message-ID: <199709030753.JAA06106@basement.replay.com>



Abstruse wrote:
> > > > > > |> >>Dave K-P  writes:
> > > > > > |> >>
> > > > > > |> >>>> > > > Information, please!
> > > > > > |> >>>> > > Dont go swimming on a full stomach.
> > > > > > |> >>>> > Don't "escrow" your keys.
> > > > > > |> >>>> Don't take advice from strangers.
> > > > > > |> >>>Don't ask, don't tell.
> > > > > > |> >>Don't eat yellow snow.
> > > > > > |> >Don�t spit, just swallow.
> > > > > > | >Don't touch anything.
> > > > > > Don't touch _there_.
> > > > > Never piss into the wind.
> > > > Don't pull on a psycho's cape.
> > > Don't jump to confusions..
> > Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> Don't *hate* the media..
> *become* the media" - Jello Biafra
Don't talk to yourself (even by email).






From asl at dev.null  Wed Sep  3 04:00:31 1997
From: asl at dev.null (Austin Stable Leader)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:31 +0800
Subject: Fate of Jews in America (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <18adffbcbf3db09095d3735819c68cbc@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <340D0E7D.5105@dev.null>



Any Mouse wrote:
> Cypherpunks are in no position to make remarks about Jewish racism.
> 
> Jews were far more welcoming to such as Sammy Davis, Jr. than many
> cypherpunks would be.  "Off my porch, nigger!" would be the undoubted
> greeting from some of our ostensible leaders, as they take shotgun in
> hand.

As the Austin Stable Leader of the Cypherpunks Cult of One (Playtypus
Chapter), I demand to know if you are speaking for _all_ cypherpunks
critics, or just for yourself.
{Don't bother replying either by private email, or to the list, as long
 as you put the answer on your hard drive, I'll find it. 

LongFacedMustachioedCypherpunk(:-I>}HallowedLiterMonger






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Wed Sep  3 04:00:37 1997
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:37 +0800
Subject: Things we should be working on...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709022216.XAA00915@server.test.net>




Tim May  writes:
> One more question. Could you tell us which things you are talking about
> here, which things you returned to Canada to implement?

I can't see that export controls are much of a big deal for freeware
cypherpunk software ... just publish it on a US site with whatever
access controls you fancy.  It'll make it's way out of the country in
a few minutes and end up on replay.com, or one of the automated
mirrors of export control sites at ftp://idea.sec.dsi.unimi.it/pub/ or
where ever.

It's not as if you're trying to sell it, or are a corporation worrying
about stepping on toes at NSA Inc. 

> If you are actually going to Canada to release products, this might be even
> more interesting than either the Junger or Bernstein cases. Of course, if
> you discuss this openly, you may be inviting repercussions.

Just release it in the US.  Lets someone else do the export.

Adam
-- 

Have you exported RSA today?






From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 04:00:42 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:42 +0800
Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903004312.0305d588@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 10:51 AM 9/2/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>Now, Ray, you're being too harsh. When NSA/NIST sought the analysis of
>Clipper/Tessera several years ago, the distinguished panel met for a
>weekend in a D.C. area hotel and concluded...drum roll...that
>Clipper/Tessera was secure.

No, they put out an interim report asserting that Skipjack was secure,
promising to do a final report covering the Clipper chip, the escrow system,
the key-loading charade in the vault, and all the other things that make
Clipper,
and hyped the  out of how secure Skipjack was, 
implying that you should trust Clipper and the friendly NSA that gave it to
you.
Of course, N years later, they haven't come out with that final report,
and in context issuing the Skipjack interim part was a blatantly dishonest
ploy,
as well as being too short an analysis to be anything resembling thorough,
even if Skipjack is fairly strong (which it probably is, for 80 bit Feistel.)

>Of course, Matt Blaze broke the Tessera version a few months later....

Not an extremely practical break, but good enough to show the
fundamental shoddiness of the Clipper system and embarass them at a time
that a good heavy-duty embarassment was politically damaging.

>Some believe they have a role in helping industry to secure its
>communications.  I don't agree.  The NSA has no business getting involved 
>in business.  Period.

I think they've got a role in making sure that defense contractors
making products for the US military, whether the contractors are handling 
militarily sensitive information or especially building tools that the
military will use to handle sensitive information, are adequately secure.
You could argue that that's a job for some other centralized expert agency
that's under better civilian control or Pentagon control rather than
being out of control (as the CIA is), perhaps National Science Foundation,
but it's also arguable that the only people who can do an adequate job
of protecting secrets are people with lots of practice cracking them,
and that's something pretty much like an NSA.

There's also a potential role, though it's a much tougher sell,
for NSA or similar experts helping the State Department,
and perhaps civilian Federal agencies that handle private 
information about citizens, do a good job at protecting it,
though the military models of security are often not a good match
for civilian data protection.  My past experience with the NSA
"helping" the State Department was a 3-year debacle in the late 80s,
where they provided a bunch of unrealistic wish-list advice to a bunch of,
ummm, technically challenged Wang administrators about how to build
a secure world-wide network, which gradually fell apart in turf battles
because the main Embassy customers for highly secure communications
don't really work for State and they wanted their secure network 
provided by Real Spooks, and they may not have had the budget or political
clout to get a network built but they could sure spoil a procurement :-)

But other than supporting Federal customers, they ought to leave business 
alone, at least until they get privatized....

#			Thanks;  Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
#   (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies.  Thanks.)






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 04:00:47 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:00:47 +0800
Subject: Things we should be working on...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 12:12 AM -0700 9/3/97, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 12:56 PM 9/2/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>>My understanding was that you had to do most of your work in Canada because
>>of U.S. restrictions on those with student visas?
>>Certainly you are just as much in violations of the EARS by going to Canada
>>to do your crypto work as Rivest and Company would be in by crossing into
>>Canada to develop stuff for RSADSI.
>>Am I missing something here?
>
>Yeah, you're missing that Ian's a Canadian, not subject to US laws when
>he's not in US territory, unlike Rivest (but not unlike Shamir.)
>Taking working papers with him might be an export problem, but
>taking ideas in his head isn't, and when he's at home, he can work,
>subject to Canadian limits on writing, publishing, and internetting crypto.
>If he wants to sell products based on his crypto work,
>there may be student visa issues involved, but there's a Canadian corporation
>that can take care of some of those problems for him.

"Sigh"

As I've answered four people with in private e-mail, I'm fully aware that
Ian is Canadian. This is why he presumably returns to Canada on vacations.
I think he's from Toronto, if memory serves.

But I was not aware that this exempted him from the U.S. Export
Administration laws, known variously as the Export Administration
Regulations (the EARs), the ITARs (old name), or related to the "Munitions
Act." I admit that the EARs are a dense read (cf. glimpses at several
sites, incl. http://bxa.fedworld.gov/ear.html). It's possible that a court
would rule that Ian's 10 months out of the year residency in the U.S. does
not make him subject to the EARs, but I think otherwise.

(Is Ian also exempt from the Espionage Act?)

Now the issue is whether Ian's admitted (here, today) use of trips to
Canada as a subterfuge to bypass the EARs is in fact an admission of
violation of the EARs.

Personally, my hunch is that nobody in D.C. much cares what Ian is now
doing. Not because he's not doing good work, but because they have no
interest in stopping this work. But this is a different thing from saying
that Ian is exempt from the EARs if he goes back to Canada to either finish
a piece of work started in California or to codify the thinking begun in
California. By any reasonable sense of the EARs, this would be as much a
violation of the EARs as if Jim Bidzos went to Greece on vacation and wrote
a new piece of software.

(Note that Bidzos is not a citizen of the United States. He retains Greek
citizenship. He is thus essentially analogous to Ian Goldberg, modulo some
issues of wealth and coding ability, and age.)

I am not saying Ian will be prosecuted or hassled. I am saying I think it
is poor legal advice to suggest that Ian, though he attends school in
California, is miraculously exempted from the force of the U.S. EARs when
he is temporarily back in Canada.

And I repeat what I understood Ian's situation to be, from what he
personally told me some months back: he is forbidden by U.S. Immigration
law from most kinds of normal employment while on a student visa in the
U.S. (graduate student stipends being not part of this "most"), and thus
must be back in Canada to act as an ordinary consultant or author.

This apparently has little to do with the point of evading the EARs. Could
Ian please clarify the situation?

--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From staff at mailcorporation.com  Wed Sep  3 19:12:08 1997
From: staff at mailcorporation.com (staff at mailcorporation.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 35,000,000 People...
Message-ID: <199709040141.SAA21778@sweden.it.earthlink.net>


Would you be interested in...

* Sending out Bulk Email for FREE?
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From staff at mailcorporation.com  Wed Sep  3 19:18:48 1997
From: staff at mailcorporation.com (staff at mailcorporation.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 35,000,000 People...
Message-ID: <199709040150.SAA25542@sweden.it.earthlink.net>


Would you be interested in...

* Sending out Bulk Email for FREE?
* Receiving 35,000,000 Email Addresses FREE of charge?
* Sending out Bulk Email using your CURRENT Internet Account
  without EVER having to worry about it being canceled?
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  or Web Page to over 250,000 people per day?
* Posting a FREE Advertisement for your Business or Web Page to
  over 25,000 Newsgroups in under 3 Hours?

You may shudder at the thought of Bulk Email.. but the simple
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From staff at mailcorporation.com  Wed Sep  3 19:27:35 1997
From: staff at mailcorporation.com (staff at mailcorporation.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:27:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 35,000,000 People...
Message-ID: <199709040158.SAA28592@sweden.it.earthlink.net>


Would you be interested in...

* Sending out Bulk Email for FREE?
* Receiving 35,000,000 Email Addresses FREE of charge?
* Sending out Bulk Email using your CURRENT Internet Account
  without EVER having to worry about it being canceled?
* Sending out a FREE Bulk Email Advertisement for your Business
  or Web Page to over 250,000 people per day?
* Posting a FREE Advertisement for your Business or Web Page to
  over 25,000 Newsgroups in under 3 Hours?

You may shudder at the thought of Bulk Email.. but the simple
truth is.. BULK EMAIL WORKS!  By sending out Bulk Email, you are
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length advertisement for your business or web page!

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at: remove at nim.com

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autoremover mailbot can remove you from our mailing list.






From phoenix at workload.com  Wed Sep  3 19:37:43 1997
From: phoenix at workload.com (phoenix at workload.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Wanted!!! Serious Dieters!!!
Message-ID: <>


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From phoenix at workload.com  Wed Sep  3 19:37:43 1997
From: phoenix at workload.com (phoenix at workload.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Wanted!!! Serious Dieters!!!
Message-ID: <>


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I am looking for people who are serious about losing weight, increasing their
energy level and feeling better than you have in your life. These  products
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From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Wed Sep  3 05:02:56 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:02:56 +0800
Subject: You really do want to volunteer, don't you? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Tim May  writes:

>
> At 4:05 PM -0700 9/2/97, Greg Broiles wrote:
>
> >A more useful way to avoid corrections/citations/clarifications might be
> >simply getting the details correct in the first place.
> >
>
> And a hearty fuck you to you as well.
>
> Jeesh. You'll probably make a fine lawyer.

Probably not.  He works for Sameer Parekh.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Wed Sep  3 06:04:10 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:04:10 +0800
Subject: Missing Kids and Porn Links
In-Reply-To: <199709030605.IAA27215@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <8oBgce38w165w@bwalk.dm.com>



nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:

> Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >
> > Most of people who publicly "care for children" are hidden pedophiles or
> > control freaks, in my humble opinion.
>
> I agree.
>
> Does anyone have any pointers to child pornography sites, so that I can
> warn people which sites to avoid?

http://www.whitehouse.gov

> T.C. Mayonnaise 
> "Hey little girl, want to make some mayonnaise with _real_ eggs?"
>
>


---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From declan at pathfinder.com  Wed Sep  3 06:11:03 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:11:03 +0800
Subject: Death Pictures of Diana on InterNet!!!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> This is off-topic, but... Why do people refer to the bastards who ran
> Di's card off the road by some weird italian name?
> 
> They're JOURNALISTS.  Just like Declan here.

Ahem.

 pa-pa-raz-zo \,paHp-e-'raHt-(,)soE\
 [It]
 (1968)
 :a free-lance photographer who aggressively pursues celebrities for the
 purpose of taking candid photographs 

I'm not freelance, nor a photographer, and certainly not someone who
pursues celebrities to take photos.

-Declan






From cmefford at avwashington.com  Wed Sep  3 06:12:12 1997
From: cmefford at avwashington.com (Chip Mefford)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:12:12 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199708281520.RAA25882@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 



Fairfax County, In the Peoples Republic of Virginia

Citizens in the PRV who have been travelling in Fairfax County will soon
be recieving summons to come pay their dues to the monster in the form of
traffic citations for running red lights issued by Big Brother.

Yes, rest assured that Big Brother is watching. Three CopBots have been
deployed around the county to take pictures of vehicles exiting
intersections after the light has turned red. These CopBots are a great
boon to our prosperity and security as they free up the huminoid Cops from
traffic duties so that they can better spend their time toilet plunger
kicking.

In the month since this "trial program" began, over 3 thousand citations
have been prepared and will be in the mail as of TODAY!!!. All Hail Big
Brother, security is at hand!! Hurrah!!

With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.

This is truely a great day.

Weep for joy!

I love Big Brother.







From declan at well.com  Wed Sep  3 06:17:13 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:17:13 +0800
Subject: DC cypherpunk soccer team?
Message-ID: 



If you live in Washington, play soccer, and are a libertarian
(anarcho-capitalists are also welcome), email me. The fall league is
starting in two weeks. 

The name of the team? "The Invisible Foot"

-Declan






From declan at well.com  Wed Sep  3 06:20:21 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:20:21 +0800
Subject: DC CYPHERPUNKS PARTY on September 6
Message-ID: 



The DC cypherpunk working meeting and Diffie-Hellman patent expiration
party is this Saturday, September 6. About 30 people have RSVP'd. Speakers
include Bob Corn-Revere, a member of the Bernstein legal team, who will
talk about the lawsuit.

A group of 2600ers from NYC are coming down and may be able to bring
friends. People also plan to come from Baltimore and Richmond, so
carpooling might be a possibility. Email me for more info on this.

Remember, the event has two portions:

  -- 5:30 pm: a DCCP working meeting and potluck supper.
  -- 8:00 pm: a post-meeting party to celebrate the expiration of the
              Diffie-Hellman and Merkle-Hellman patents.

The original invite is at http://www.well.com/~declan/dccp/

-Declan






From cyber at ibpinc.com  Wed Sep  3 06:24:10 1997
From: cyber at ibpinc.com (Roger J Jones)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:24:10 +0800
Subject: Forbes September 8, 1997
Message-ID: <01BCB841.ADC03090@PC1901>



For those who have not seen it, the cover of this issue of Forbes is:

"The cypher-libertarians

This guy wants to overthrow the government"

Cool!






From trei at process.com  Wed Sep  3 06:52:59 1997
From: trei at process.com (Peter Trei)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:52:59 +0800
Subject: NSA/NIST Security Lab
Message-ID: <199709031344.JAA01344@www.video-collage.com>



Uran233 at aol.com wrote:

> Yes but the NSA really wanted the Skipjack for DOD messsages. 

As I recall, only for sensitive but unclassified data.

>They (probably) monitor all of those anyway. 

Tessera/Clipper had built-in GAK, so a backdoor would have been 
redundant. 

> But Matt did alot of work on his project but did
> he show how to brak Skipjack and does this totally trash the Fortezza
> program?

No. He showed that with a bit of work he could fake the ID of the 
chip sending the message. He did not 'break Skipjack' in any way.
He did show that the protocol (which used Skipjack for bulk 
encryption) was incompetently designed.

Get a spellchecker.

Peter Trei
trei at process.com






From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Sep  3 07:45:44 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:45:44 +0800
Subject: Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970903142316.006991bc@pop.pipeline.com>



Tim May wrote:

>(Note to Greg Broiles: You will undoubtedly claim that I should check my
>facts more thoroughly before sending this message. When you start paying me
>$150 an hour (cheap by attorney's inflated fee schedules) I will promise to
>spend an extra 10-20 minutes per post doing Web searches to verify trivial
>details.)

Announcing Black-and-WhiteNet (256-Gray, plaid, checkered, houndstoothed) 
Op Center (B&WOC(256-GPC-fang) which will minutely trivialize the most 
astoundingly paramountly important tics, quirks and quik-$$$ ever Da Vinced by  
CCLs of evil-elvis/chemical/dietary/genetic/ethnic/racial/politco-military
imbalances (CCLoE-ECDGERP-Mi). 

The service is Free!, absolutely EARwig-ITARpit authenticatable, sworn on the 
blorb's newsracks and constitutions for others' genocide and beloved family
whack 
how-tos and inter-related inter-dependent folderol for sanctioned revenge
mayhem 
and It-made-me-do-it salvation and self-rammed lead up hoof-pop and oral rot.

Now, read on for the good $tuff:

Thanks to limitless contributions from the global media, open and secret
Orders, 
trade and NDA assocs, retired and active members of gov/mil/edu/net/orgs, the 
service will leap to shell out data-haven-quicksands of unlocateable
e-shekels to 
anon-remailer-informants for information leading to the entrapment and 
vaporization of the supremely urgently destructive demolishers of all other 
contenders for impeccable veracity and bottomless shamlessly vainglorious 
product promo and faithhealing celebrity implanation/enhancement.

Exes of orgs specially trained to cheat, lie, steal IP, walk on grannies,
etc, and
even more so, the double, triple and bypass XXs of all spinoffs and spin labs, 
are especially welcomed for dangling as irresistable bait for like
super-peepees 
and wannabes seeking Dow-Corninging (D-C Net-neutering, unexpected 
down migration to nether parts, career redirection to geek show Oprahing).

Persons licensed or regulated for betrayal of the public interest for
self-shame,
that is, all who are licensed, regged, SSed and uniformed, get, believe it,
only you,
to-the-trade-only discount/stipend/D-C-reimbursement commensurate with the
maggot-chewed-brain challenged (degree-ed, credentialed up the kazoo, failed 
nontheless no matter repetitive public cry and beg for understanding) of the 
higher prefontal .edu-tree-chewers, arch and anarch contenders with the Grand 
Order/Temple of My Maggots are Better Than Your Maggot (itself being voraciouly 
gnawed and underminded by The Terrible Terroristic Termites, Thine Own Enemy 
Within: Envy Eating Mine Own Soul Food(T5OEW:E2MOSF [not that OSF])).









From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Sep  3 07:58:09 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:58:09 +0800
Subject: Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970903143640.00718780@pop.pipeline.com>



So-called John Young wrote:
>Tim May wrote:

>Announcing Black-and-WhiteNet (256-Gray, plaid, checkered, houndstoothed) 
>Op Center (B&WOC(256-GPC-fang) which will minutely trivialize the most 

Not that it matters, but this is not mine. But not sure how to prove it,
probably
best to not try to be serious and thereby reify parody self-parody,
self-parody, 
self-parody.






From frissell at panix.com  Wed Sep  3 08:15:59 1997
From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:15:59 +0800
Subject: Things we should be working on...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903111019.03640cf0@panix.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:12 AM 9/3/97 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:

>Yeah, you're missing that Ian's a Canadian, not subject to US laws when
>he's not in US territory, unlike Rivest (but not unlike Shamir.)

I don't know Ian's status but those who are US permanent residents are 
subject to most of these sorts of laws even if they are temporarily outside 
of the US.  Student Visa holders are not permanent residents of course.

>Taking working papers with him might be an export problem, but 
>taking ideas in his head isn't, and when he's at home, he can work,
>subject to Canadian limits on writing, publishing, and internetting crypto.
>If he wants to sell products based on his crypto work,
>there may be student visa issues involved, but there's a Canadian 
corporation
>that can take care of some of those problems for him.

He's probably OK there.  If I am in France, or China, or Canada, I can 
continue to write the great American Novel or the Great American Algorithm 
that I'm working on without violating work permit requirements.

The nice thing about those of us who only sell ideas for a living is that 
they haven't figured out a way to outlaw thinking yet (as much as they've 
tried).

In any case, I take it that Ian is a graduate student which implies that he 
possesses a bachelor's degree from somewhere and thus can work here more or 
less at will for five years.  Under the US-Canada FTA and NAFTA, citizens of 
the three signatory countries who have bachelor's degrees and genuine job 
offers can work in either of the other two countries without going through 
the whole work permit process.  It's just a little paper shuffling at the 
border and "cannot ordinarily be denied".  

So Ian can work here but poor Bill Gates can't work in Canada.

DCF
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNA1914VO4r4sgSPhAQGmdQP5AdIfzFV0RTNCPUc/G36b8LaZuwTI6tG0
97E5SEgyt0TYLtgLmBLA57s8eiIpbPbKcD4qXUTbjLgee1d7HgIGd+SOrpgAh7rH
87HpRVduFfCet+J9OfBS7apPvmvwTU/OTMRHWX3UyLspDpFakJ9mFNmpZX1jhU+G
0/5FdOYa/5g=
=Ha4r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Sep  3 08:36:26 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:36:26 +0800
Subject: Capitalism 102 (was Re: Things we should be working on...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 11:21 pm -0400 on 9/2/97, Tim May wrote:

> Sorry I "donated" my time making up this list,

To the contrary, it's not a donation at all. I see it as a set of
investment criteria, myself. How is the market going to make something for
you if it doesn't know what you want? Keeping in mind what I said about
privacy being economically efficient, I take what is said on this list
about privacy, "gossip" or not, very seriously, especially when it comes
from someone like you, Tim.

> given the messages I'm
> seeing and the private chastisements of me for daring to suggest.

Maybe they're misinterpreting all the stuff you've said over the years
about "something must be done", "cypherpunks is not a group", and "we"
ought to do to things, etc.

Frankly, a discussion of specifications and desired results is worth much
more than the wasted random effort saved when people just write code and
let god sort it out. I mean, Michaelson-Morley may have been a neat
experimental finding, but nothing really happened with gravity until
Einstein figured out space-time, right?

> Apparently some of you think that only full-time C or Java programmers are
> qualified to make suggestions.

Of course not. See above. There are many more people who know how to write
code than there are like you, Tim, who know what to do it *for*.
Unfortunately, people who write code need to eat. Fortunately, people who
know what to do can raise money to hire people who write code if the idea's
good enough to sell twice: once to investors, and again to the market for
which the code's intended. And, rarely, as in your case, Tim, some people
with money already know what to do and can hire people to do it. If they
can "sell" *themselves* on the idea that the market will buy it. The guy
who founded Aldus did it with Pagemaker. Osbourne did it, too, before he
made the mistake of hiring a completely ignorant "professional" managment...


> And spare me the lectures on Capitalism 101.

Well, it was more for the list's benefit than yours, Tim. You're just my
unsuspecting foil, here. :-).

If, say, John Gilmore were here saying the same kinds of stuff you were,
I'd have sprung my little rhetorical trap for him instead, by getting him
to list what we should do next, and then asking him which ones he's going
to invest in. He'd probably be just as pissed off.

You just got lucky, is all...


Actually, if you count the money and time he's thrown at politics and
lawyers, and S/WAN, and cypherpunks, and a few other things, you might say
Gilmore's made an investment or two. Unfortunately, since he's not using
actual investment criteria -- profits, in other words -- you might consider
those investments to have been accidental. On the other hand, investing is
always about personal choices, whatever they are, and so the loop closes on
itself, I suppose.

The point is, all of the stuff you've listed costs money to do, Tim, or it
would have been done already. Which means, unless you're doing this for a
hobby, spending a very small fraction of your total income, (or an
obsession, taking all of your time and income, which can easily be argued
here on my own part :-),) then the money or time you invest in an activity
has to perpetuate itself, or eventually you won't be able to do it anymore.
Simple economics.


So, Tim, why don't you pick your favorite project on that list, hire some
people to write code, and go for it? Most of the stuff on your list can't
cost that much to do, and, if it did, then it's probably the wrong project
for you, personally, financially, to work on. If that project makes money,
you can reinvest it in something bigger anyway. Capitalism 101.

I think that Sameer in particular proves that the barriers to entry for
some financial cryptography markets are still practically nonexistant from
an investment perspective. Not for the stuff Sameer's doing, of course.
He's raised his own barriers to entry behind him by investing in his
markets already. C2NET was completely bootstrapped, though, and hopefully,
Sameer will never need outside investment. As smart as he is about
business, he'd certainly be a fool to ever take VC money. However, like
Bill Gates, the time may eventually come when he's got so many option
holders in C2NET that the SEC will force him to go public, like they did to
Microsoft, another bootstrapped company.

Anyway, especially in anonymous digital bearer settlement, which is the
really important stuff in financial cryptography, there are lots of
opportunities out there, and some of them are bootstrapable. Some of those
which aren't should be funded by single, monomaniacal, investors like the
Aldus guy did with Pagemaker, or you, Tim, should do with your favorite
project on the list. Hopefully, the rest the non-bootstrap stuff can be
done with e$lab or something like it. At least that's what *I'm* hoping...
;-).

You don't even have to be incredibly active as an investor. Armand Hammer
(not a good example as a human being, but certainly a good one here) got
into the oil business practically by accident *after* he retired, and
pretty much kept a retiree's schedule all throughout Occidental's growth
into a major oil company.



Privacy, financial or otherwise, is economic efficiency. Anyone who
consistantly steers by the star of privacy is going to make money and thus
change the world.

And, Tim, there is no better navigator of those waters, anywhere in the
world, than you are. None.

You're the moral compass most of us in the crypto community have
internalized when we think "what would Tim say" about something we're
thinking about doing.

(Well, you don't steer north all the time, sometimes there are rocks in the
way, but you still have to know where north is, certainly, or you don't
*get* anywhere. ;-))


So, Tim, again, which one of those projects do you want to do? Who are you
going to hire to do them? More important, how much money do you think
you'll get back by doing it?



Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From hvdl at sequent.com  Wed Sep  3 08:42:06 1997
From: hvdl at sequent.com (Unicorn)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:42:06 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
Message-ID: <19970903171900.47376@sequent.com>



Hi Guys (F/M),

I am seeing messages about the Dr.Dobbs Crypto CD-ROM not being received
by persons inside the US, but right  now I wonder if this information is
or will  be available,  in this  form, outside of  the US?  personally I
would love to have this info available on CD-ROM, enabling me to take it
with me wherever  I go (stuck with  a laptop or notebook)...  And yes, I
would of course have no problem with  paying for it, or donating the US$
price to a good course.

Ciao,
Unicorn.
-- 
======= _ __,;;;/ TimeWaster ================================================
     ,;( )_, )~\| A Truly Wise Man Never Plays   PGP: 64 07 5D 4C 3F 81 22 73
    ;; //  `--;     Leapfrog With a Unicorn...        52 9D 87 08 51 AA 35 F0
==='= ;\ = | ==== Youth is not a time in life, it's a State of Mind! ========






From ConorL at flexicom.ie  Wed Sep  3 09:16:04 1997
From: ConorL at flexicom.ie (Conor Lillis)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:16:04 +0800
Subject: Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves
Message-ID: 



Check the mail headers to see where it originated from ....., and then
blast it with the greatest pile of trash you have, for about a
fortnight.

>----------
>From: 	John Young[SMTP:jya at pipeline.com]
>Sent: 	03 September 1997 15:36
>To: 	cypherpunks at toad.com
>Subject: 	Re: Europe puts pressure on FCC over accounting rate moves
>
>So-called John Young wrote:
>>Tim May wrote:
>
>>Announcing Black-and-WhiteNet (256-Gray, plaid, checkered, houndstoothed) 
>>Op Center (B&WOC(256-GPC-fang) which will minutely trivialize the most 
>
>Not that it matters, but this is not mine. But not sure how to prove it,
>probably
>best to not try to be serious and thereby reify parody self-parody,
>self-parody, 
>self-parody.
>
>






From iang at cs.berkeley.edu  Wed Sep  3 09:25:00 1997
From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:25:00 +0800
Subject: Things we should be working on...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5uk1uc$jso$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>



In article <199709022216.XAA00915 at server.test.net>,
Adam Back   wrote:
>
>Tim May  writes:
>> One more question. Could you tell us which things you are talking about
>> here, which things you returned to Canada to implement?
>
>I can't see that export controls are much of a big deal for freeware
>cypherpunk software ... just publish it on a US site with whatever
>access controls you fancy.  It'll make it's way out of the country in
>a few minutes and end up on replay.com, or one of the automated
>mirrors of export control sites at ftp://idea.sec.dsi.unimi.it/pub/ or
>where ever.
>
>It's not as if you're trying to sell it, or are a corporation worrying
>about stepping on toes at NSA Inc. 
>
>> If you are actually going to Canada to release products, this might be even
>> more interesting than either the Junger or Bernstein cases. Of course, if
>> you discuss this openly, you may be inviting repercussions.
>
>Just release it in the US.  Lets someone else do the export.

I'm not primarily talking about _products_, here; I'm not selling stuff.
I'm just trying to publish!  Part of my research (which focuses on computer
security) involves (surprise) building secure systems or breaking insecure
ones.  Where this involves cryptography or cryptanalysis, I am prohibited
from publishing these systems on the Net, from my homepage (and I don't
_want_ to put access control on my homepage).

To answer Tim: for example, when I was in Canada last, I wrote Top Gun ssh
(secure shell for the Pilot) from the ground up.  It would be hard to
understand how this could be a violation of US export regs, when nothing
involved ever _entered_, let alone was _exported_ from, the US.

I do understand that US citizens and Permanent Residents are prohibited
from giving crypto to foreigners even when they are outside of the US,
but I'm neither of those.  The BXA _could_ try the old "let's tax all
foreigners living abroad" tactic, of course...

   - Ian






From azur at netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 09:33:47 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:33:47 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199708281520.RAA25882@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 



Yes, well this may give some of the citizens that don't object to the
burgeoning surveillence cameras in public areas something to think about,
after they receive their citation.

>At 8:29 AM -0500 9/3/97, Chip Mefford wrote:
>Fairfax County, In the Peoples Republic of Virginia
>
>Citizens in the PRV who have been travelling in Fairfax County will soon
>be recieving summons to come pay their dues to the monster in the form of
>traffic citations for running red lights issued by Big Brother.
[snip]
>
>In the month since this "trial program" began, over 3 thousand citations
>have been prepared and will be in the mail as of TODAY!!!. All Hail Big
>Brother, security is at hand!! Hurrah!!

--Steve







From hvdl at sequent.com  Wed Sep  3 09:56:37 1997
From: hvdl at sequent.com (Unicorn)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:56:37 +0800
Subject: PGP Keyservers and 5.0 DSS/D-H Keys...
Message-ID: <19970903182604.17756@sequent.com>



Hi Guys (F/M),

Just a quick question.

Are the current (mostly PGP 2.6.x based) keyservers able to incorporate,
store and provide the new PGP  5.0 based DSS/Diffie-Hellman keys? And if
not how can  one publish (the public  part of) such a  key using nothing
more than email or a web-browser behind a firewall that does not allow a
direct connection to a keyserver on port 11371?

Ciao,
Unicorn.
-- 
======= _ __,;;;/ TimeWaster ================================================
     ,;( )_, )~\| A Truly Wise Man Never Plays   PGP: 64 07 5D 4C 3F 81 22 73
    ;; //  `--;     Leapfrog With a Unicorn...        52 9D 87 08 51 AA 35 F0
==='= ;\ = | ==== Youth is not a time in life, it's a State of Mind! ========






From whgiii at amaranth.com  Wed Sep  3 10:17:38 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:17:38 +0800
Subject: PGP Keyservers and 5.0 DSS/D-H Keys...
In-Reply-To: <19970903182604.17756@sequent.com>
Message-ID: <199709031654.LAA27137@mailhub.amaranth.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19970903182604.17756 at sequent.com>, on 09/03/97 
   at 06:26 PM, Unicorn  said:

>Just a quick question.

>Are the current (mostly PGP 2.6.x based) keyservers able to incorporate,
>store and provide the new PGP  5.0 based DSS/Diffie-Hellman keys? And if
>not how can  one publish (the public  part of) such a  key using nothing
>more than email or a web-browser behind a firewall that does not allow a
>direct connection to a keyserver on port 11371?

All of the PGP public keyservers accept keys & keyrequests by e-mail.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNA2ItI9Co1n+aLhhAQGamwP9GSRL7Z5iVfRydlK4Or+bDS4BRij9oC6g
AhlZBVhT8iqT4Kp4C2ConIiTHYaz1B/oI4FZzSf2+F1r0sT8Q1mmfkuKmzYOsJCT
ZFyZrWeSpNnbN97s/fGHTz5ranhbLZ/EHj56GqeDtZbZ7c00KLAj170N2FmiK9TH
bdjbFkzSDZU=
=QhiD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 10:21:42 1997
From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:21:42 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199708281520.RAA25882@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903101219.00718ed4@popd.netcruiser>



At 08:29 AM 9/3/97 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote:
>Fairfax County, In the Peoples Republic of Virginia
>
>Citizens in the PRV who have been travelling in Fairfax County will soon
>be recieving summons to come pay their dues to the monster in the form of
>traffic citations for running red lights issued by Big Brother.
>
>Yes, rest assured that Big Brother is watching. Three CopBots have been
>deployed around the county to take pictures of vehicles exiting
>intersections after the light has turned red. These CopBots are a great
>boon to our prosperity and security as they free up the huminoid Cops from
>traffic duties so that they can better spend their time toilet plunger
>kicking.
>
>In the month since this "trial program" began, over 3 thousand citations
>have been prepared and will be in the mail as of TODAY!!!. All Hail Big
>Brother, security is at hand!! Hurrah!!
>
>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.
>
>This is truely a great day.
>
>Weep for joy!
>
>I love Big Brother.

This program has been in effect in San Francisco, People's Republik Of
Kalifornia, for over a year now.

BTW, in the vicinity of the I-80/I-680 interchange there are an array of
things suspended over the freeway that look like the sensors from metal
detectors, except they are about the size and shape of fluorescent light
fixtures.  They are opaque white plastic, suspended horizontally, with the
long axis crossing the lanu over which it is hung.  There is a cable
entering them at the top, and are suspended over all lanes of traffic
(except the fast lane) in both directions, as well as the on/off-ramps to
I-680.  Directly underneath them are sensor loops similar to what you might
find by traffic lights downtown.  The poles from from which they are hung
have 18-24 inch dish antennas, which point to the CHP truck scales which
are about 1 mile down the road from each sensor array.  Does anyone have
any idea what the devil these things are?  I have been trying to find
someone who knows for several weeks now, but nobody seems to know.

Jonathan Wienke

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, U.S. Constitution)

When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just the police.

PGP 2.6.2 RSA Key Fingerprint: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
DSS/D-H Key Fingerprint: 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC
Public keys available at pgpkeys.mit.edu. PGP encrypted e-mail preferred.

US/Canadian Windows 95/NT or Mac users:
Get Eudora Light + PGP 5.0 for free at http://www.eudora.com/eudoralight/
Get PGP 5.0 for free at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pgp-form.html

Other PGP 5.0 sources:
http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/
http://www.heise.de/ct/pgpCA/download.shtml
ftp://ftp.pca.dfn.de/pub/pgp/V5.0/
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/pc/win95/pgp
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/mac/pgp
http://www.shopmiami.com/utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/pgp/pgp50/win/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: 



On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Chip Mefford wrote:
> Fairfax County, In the Peoples Republic of Virginia
> 
> Citizens in the PRV who have been travelling in Fairfax County will soon
> be recieving summons to come pay their dues to the monster in the form of
> traffic citations for running red lights issued by Big Brother.
> 
> Yes, rest assured that Big Brother is watching. Three CopBots have been
> deployed around the county to take pictures of vehicles exiting
> intersections after the light has turned red. These CopBots are a great
> boon to our prosperity and security as they free up the huminoid Cops from
> traffic duties so that they can better spend their time toilet plunger
> kicking.
> 
> In the month since this "trial program" began, over 3 thousand citations
> have been prepared and will be in the mail as of TODAY!!!. All Hail Big
> Brother, security is at hand!! Hurrah!!
> 
> With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
> placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.
> 
> This is truely a great day.
> 
> Weep for joy!
> 
> I love Big Brother.
> 

I just moved to Fairfax County from Ft. Collins, CO (not a military base,
just a town that was one in the 1800's).  Ft. Collins has the red-light
surveillance cameras, but also has one other added bonus:  speed cameras.

There are several unmarked SUVs (when I left there was at least a GMC Jimmy,
a Ford Explorer, and a generic Chevy truck) that get parked on the sidewalk,
the bike lane and in people's lawns.  They leave a cop in the front to
eat donuts and watch TV, and in the back there is a video camera and a radar
gun.  On the front driver's side mirror there's another camera.  When you
drive by too fast, you get your picture taken (front and back) and a ticket
gets mailed to you a week later.

Not only do they take your picture, but they block the sidewal, bike lane,
and your lawn if they choose to park there.  There's been several suits
against the city, since hte vehicles are technically owned by the company
that makes the cameras (and so should not be parking on the sidewalk, your
lawn, etc...) but as far as I know, nothing has come of the suits.

Of course, it's for your own protection... as everyone knows, you can't take
care of yourself unless there's a government employee there to help you.

-nate

--
  Nate Sammons                          nate at infidels.org
                                        http://sulaco.proxicom.com:7000/~nate






From amp at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 10:48:02 1997
From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:48:02 +0800
Subject: Fate of Jews in America (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



 
> Besides, in a society with strong crypto, how are you or any government
> going to stop people from dealing with whomever they wish, on whatever
> basis they wish?

and in a society with ubiquitous internet access there will be no way to 
=know= what color someone is unless he advertises it in his sig file.

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp at pobox.com
Date: 09/03/97
Time: 10:54:11
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903134233.03644340@panix.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>I do understand that US citizens and Permanent Residents are prohibited
>from giving crypto to foreigners even when they are outside of the US,

Or giving it to foreigners even when those foreigners are *in* the US.

>but I'm neither of those.  The BXA _could_ try the old "let's tax all
>foreigners living abroad" tactic, of course...

'Mericans probably don't realize that there is a distinction between 
Permanent Residents (PRs) and other sorts of ferriners.  All of the Feds' 
cute extra-territoriality ploys:  outlawing gold ownership in '33, outlawing 
unlicensed space launches in 85(?), outlawing working on anything in Cuba or 
on nuclear power plants in the old bad South Africa, or outlawing exporting 
crypto, or blocking ownership of 60% of the world's mutual funds, or levying 
taxes on worldwide income, etc. apply to US citizens, US permanent residents, 
and in some cases those present in the US.

Thus US citizens and PRs were prohibited from owning gold anywhere on earth 
from 1933 to 1980.  Same with the rest (with numerous complications).

A student Visa holder is most assuredly not a PR and so would not be covered 
by these laws save to the extent that they cover all those present in the US.

DCF
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

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From alan at ctrl-alt-del.com  Wed Sep  3 11:20:46 1997
From: alan at ctrl-alt-del.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:20:46 +0800
Subject: Missing Kids and Porn Links
In-Reply-To: <19970903035857.3253.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903105138.041d53e0@ctrl-alt-del.com>



At 11:38 PM 9/2/97 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>
>Most of people who publicly "care for children" are hidden pedophiles or
>control freaks, in my humble opinion.

I believe that many of them are people who feed off of the
endorphin/adreniline rush of being "outraged".  They need something to get
upset about.  Who cares if it is real or who gets hurt?  They are "doing
good by getting pissed".  It is that "moral outrage" that makes them forget
just how worthless and pathetic their own lives are.

It would be pretty sad if was not for the fact that so many people buy into
their moral crusades.
 
---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com|






From sobel at epic.org  Wed Sep  3 11:59:40 1997
From: sobel at epic.org (David L. Sobel)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:59:40 +0800
Subject: Clinton, Commerce, and Crypto scandal
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




At 3:07 AM -0500 9/3/97, Bill Stewart wrote:

...

>Tim Maier's Insight article isn't all that bad, but he obviously doesn't have
>a good perspective on crypto technology, and unfortunately none of the
>web pages involved contain good email pointers to their authors :-)
>	(On the other hand, one of the references said Dave Sobel has copies.)

Through FOIA litigation, we received a redacted version of a Commerce/NSA
document titled "A Study of the International Market for Computer Software
with Encryption."  I subsequently learned that the index of documents in
Ira Sockowitz's safe includes both the unredacted and the redacted versions
of this document.  It is wholly coincidental that EPIC was interested in
the same material as was Sockowitz -- we requested this document and filed
suit for it before any of the events recounted in the Insight article
took place.  In fact, we posted the text of the Executive Summary of the
study at our site in January 1996:

http://www.epic.org/crypto/export_controls/commerce_study_summary.html

Subsequent litigation resulted in the release of a *less sanitized* version
of the entire study in June 1996.

David Sobel
Legal Counsel, EPIC







From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Wed Sep  3 12:13:53 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 03:13:53 +0800
Subject: Thought Police Make Bust
Message-ID: 



WEIRDNUZ.492 (News of the Weird, July 11, 1997)
by Chuck Shepherd

* Brothers Geoffrey and Aaron Kuffner were arrested in New
Orleans in June and charged with terrorism as the ones who had
recently mailed or hand-delivered suspicious packages to local
government and news media offices.  The packages contained
innocuous items (which nonetheless were frightening enough that
two offices called for evacuations) and a four-page manifesto
vowing that "Violent Acts of Consciousness Have Only Begun." 
According to police, the men's goal was to call attention to public
ignorance of poetry and that among their demands was that all state
inaugural speeches be written in iambic pentameter. 

Cypherpunks Action Project #323a:
Post a message to the list in iambic pentameter. (That'll show 'em.)

Cypherpunks Action Project #323b:
Turn yourself into the police as a terrorist, for "Violent Acts of
Subconsiousness." Take your Dream Diary with you, as proof.

Cypherpunks Action Project #323c:
Write your violent dreams in iambic pentameter.

PentaMonger






From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Wed Sep  3 12:36:32 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 03:36:32 +0800
Subject: Fate of Jews in America (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709031928.PAA27825@www.video-collage.com>



At 12:01 AM 9/3/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>
...
>(It is true that the vast majority of Cypherpunks are basically
>libertarian, and hence are not keen on government programs to favor one
>race or sex or group over another. Jesse Jackson calls this point of view
>"racism." "Ending discrimination in favor of some races is racism," he
>claims. Most list members would reject this.)
>
>Besides, in a society with strong crypto, how are you or any government
>going to stop people from dealing with whomever they wish, on whatever
>basis they wish?
...
Another consideration is the government spin doctor.
With the Oklahoma City federal Building Bombing, the government had a new
bad guy.  Everyone despised this bad guy because this bad guy had been
responsible for the death of innocent children.
This bad guy was the mostly Anglo-Saxon Militant Extreme Right-Wingers.
By tying this group to the bombing, something that in many peoples opinion
they did perfectly.  They assured that people wouldn't associate with them,
and would prosecute them for any little thing.
They immediately tied these groups with gun ownership.  They also tied these
groups with white supremism.
Now if you own a gun, you must be a racist and a militia member, if your white.
If your black, you are already figured as a drug dealer, another bogeyman,
so they had that base covered.
By tying crypto into the same militia movement.  Not hard since several
posts refer to the second ammendment, (if you have to invoke the second
ammendment, you are obviously a militia sypathesizer/member/co-conspirator.)
Now that we are the first distributed dangerous militia, we must obviously
all be racists because everyone knows that militia members are all racist,
gun toting, wackos that run around the woods, shoot at cops and blow up
buildings.
Next stop, the distributed Ruby Ridge.  Where every prominent member who
does more than blow hot air will be rounded up, shot for looking funny, and
passed off as enemies of the state.  The rest of us will be left to blow hot
air to give credence to their claims.






From whgiii at amaranth.com  Wed Sep  3 12:52:22 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 03:52:22 +0800
Subject: [PGP-USERS] Crypto-logic US$1 million Challenge
In-Reply-To: <97090316550827/0002595870PK5EM@mcimail.com>
Message-ID: <199709031939.OAA29483@mailhub.amaranth.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <97090316550827/0002595870PK5EM at mcimail.com>, on 09/03/97 
   at 11:55 AM, Jeffrey Gold <0002595870 at MCIMAIL.COM> said:

>Although it's not PGP, I thought this might be of interest.
>I've condensed a Wall Street Journal Article with info from
>the web page http://www.ultimateprivacy.com

>  A start-up company is offering a $1 million challenge. Crypto-
>Logic Corp. of Austin, Texas, claims to have created an encryption 
>system for electronic mail so foolproof that it can't be broken.  If
>someone can  figure out a special encrypted e-mail message  within a
>year, the company says it will pay a reward of $1 million.

>  Cryptologists agree that the decades-old encryption method   that
>Crypto-Logic is claiming to use -- called a "one-time pad" -- 
>is theoretically unbreakable. Each "pad" has a set of uniquely 
>random digital symbols that are coded to the actual message. 
>The recipient uses the same symbols to decrypt the message. 
>The pads are used only once.

>  Of course, the problem with any one-time pad is the distribution
>of multiple pads.  A new one is needed for each message.  Public-key
>cryptography (used by PGP) addresses this issue.  It is not clear
>how Crypto-Logic Corp. addresses the distribution issue.


ROTFLMAO!!!!!

What a sweet little scam they have going here. :)

While there product cost $99, which is not unreasonable for a security product of this nature, they charge $49 for the "OTP's" (I'll get to the OTP's later)!!!

Now they way they have this set-up is that for each person that you are communicating with requires a separate "OTP". The program comes with 2 "OTP's" and additional "OTP's" can be purchased for $49. So say you have 10 people you wish to communicate with you are talking almost $500 out the gate to get going!!! This is just silly.


Now to "OTP's". These are the things that snake-oil salesmen's dreams are made of. Here is how their sales pitch works (and i have seen many of them over the years):


1) OTP's are unbreakable
2) We use an OTP
3) Our program is unbreakable
4) You should use our program

I will address all three points of their sales pitch and show the flaws in it.

1) OTP's are unbreakable:

  To understand how one can make this claim (and it is true) on needs to understand what a OTP is and how it works.

A OPT (One Time Pad) is just a file of random numbers. That's it, nothing fancy here. To encrypt a message one takes the bits in the plaintext and an equal amount of bits from the OTP and XOR them together. The result is just another random file of bits. To get the plaintext back one takes the "encrypted" files and Xor's it with the same bits used the first time.

Quite simple but there is a catch:

  Your OTP must but TRULY RANDOM!! If there are any patterns in your "random" data you are dead in the water. The biggest flaw in products that claim to use OTP's is they use what is called a PRNG (pseudo random number generator). Unfortunately the data that PRNG's produce are not sufficiently "random" for use in OTP's. It has long been accepted in the field of cryptology that you *MUST* use a real world sample for random data, things like measuring the time intervals between click on a Geiger counter measuring background radiation.

A second catch:

  You must never, never reuse any of the bits from your OTP!!! As simple as this seems (after all this is why they call it an One Time Pad) there are programmers out there that fail to grasp this basic concept. Now AFAIK there is no pad reuse with this program. That's where their revenue stream is comming from charging you for the new pads!

So if you use truly random data (no PRNG's) and you never reuse bits then an OTP encrypted message is provably unbreakable.


2) We use OTP's

I have seen numerous claims by various "snake-oil" salesmen that their program uses an OTP only too see that they are using a PRNG to generate their "OTP". I even had one claim that it was ok to reuse his PRNG generated pad.

Now since the company provided no details on how they generate the OTP's who knows what they are doing.

3) Our program is unbreakable

Well if they are dotting all their I's and crossing all their T's when it comes to generating and using OTP's then yes the message is unbreakable.

But wait their program does not generate the OTP's you must buy them from the company!! This means that a 3rd party outside of you and the person you are communicating with has a copy of the pad!!! This is a big no-no in cryptology. Anyone who has access to the OTP can decrypt any message that was encrypted using it. What type of security do they have on site? Who has access to the OTP's?? How are they generated?? What are their policies if the government requests access to these OTP's?? All questions left unanswered by the company.

I must say that I seriously question the on-site security of the OTP's considering how the initial OTP's are sent to the customer, (drum roll please), the just MAIL them!!!!

This brings us to the third catch to using OTP's: How to exchange the pads.

Before the advent of Public Key Encryption this was the most daunting task in cryptology. How do you get the keys to the people who need them to decrypt the message??? With OTP's or any form of cryptology where the same key is used to encrypt and decrypt the message the user must find a "secure" channel for exchanging the keys. This is no different than a key to a house or a car, the same key is used to lock and unlock the door. Anyone who has a copy of the key can unlock the door. Need less to say you don't just send the key in the mail. Usually such exchanges are done in person or if this is not practical a "trusted" courier is used to exchange the key. Not very practical for every day use.


4) You should use our program

Consider the following:

- -- Unknown methods used for generation Otp's
- -- Customer unable to generate their own OTP's
- -- Unknown "on-site" security
- -- Otp's escrowed by company (they have a copy of your keys)
- -- Additional cost for each new key
- -- Obvious lack of security in mailing initial Otp's to customers
- -- No solution to the key exchange problem
- -- No source code for program

I would not use this program nor would I recommend it to anyone else. There are may other programs that provide overall better security than what this program ever can or ever will provide.

I will CC: the Cyberpunks & Coderpunks list as there may be others there who can better expand on this issue.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 12:54:07 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 03:54:07 +0800
Subject: [LONG} Funding Cypherpunks Projects
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



I almost deleted these messages from Bob, but have decided to say a few
words about financing companies "to help the Cypherpunks cause."

As I lack the energy right now to compose an essay from scratch, I'll take
the easier way out and respond to Bob's points.

At 7:23 AM -0700 9/3/97, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>At 11:21 pm -0400 on 9/2/97, Tim May wrote:
>
>> Sorry I "donated" my time making up this list,
>
>To the contrary, it's not a donation at all. I see it as a set of
>investment criteria, myself. How is the market going to make something for
>you if it doesn't know what you want? Keeping in mind what I said about

To the contrary, I never write political and socioeconomic essays with the
expectation that someone out there will be "making something for me."
That's just plain disconnected from reality thinking. Why I write, and what
I write, has various motivations. No time to delve into a psychoanalysis of
this right now--my Cyhernomicon has sections describing the confluence of
technologies and opportunities I saw beginning in about 1987 or so, with
comments on why I think these are such exciting issues. I write because the
ideas interest me, not to make a few bucks. (And, as I explain later, the
odds of losing $1-2 million in VC investments grossly outweigh the odds of
making $10-20 M. Grossly.)

But generating "VC funding requests" is most definitely not even in my Top
Ten of reasons.

>Maybe they're misinterpreting all the stuff you've said over the years
>about "something must be done", "cypherpunks is not a group", and "we"
>ought to do to things, etc.

>From Day One, I have not shied away from talking about interesting building
blocks.  Including remailers, which I briefed the attendees at the first
meeting on (having been mightily influenced by Chaum's 1981 brief paper on
untraceable e-mail). And so on. This is well-covered history.

It is true that I try to avoid using the language "Here's is what I want
you to work on," and variants. My "things we need to work on" was my name
for a list--and not the first one--of things which I think are a lot more
interesting and important than working on, say, lists of "things that make
Cypherpunks happy," or silk-screening new t-shirts with the slogan du jour.

>Frankly, a discussion of specifications and desired results is worth much
>more than the wasted random effort saved when people just write code and
>let god sort it out. I mean, Michaelson-Morley may have been a neat
>experimental finding, but nothing really happened with gravity until
>Einstein figured out space-time, right?

I agree with this. Certainly for all of the chants about "Cypherpunks write
code," and the several years worth of (apparently) several dozen folks here
writing code of some sort, what are we really left with that has had a
major effect? Most of the code apparently being written either never makes
it into products, or is buried deeply, or just evaporates (as code tends to
do, a la bit rot). PGP, SSH, the remailer code, and a few other such
achivements are what lasts.

I don't trash such efforts. Rather, I think it means that it is vitally
important that we think carefully about what code is interesting and
important. This beats the hell out of people just starting in at coding for
the sake of coding.

Part of coding is carefully deciding what to code. This is Programming 101,
or at least should be. Deciding that a simple remailer would be an
interesting thing to code was  the important part of getting remailers
deployed....the actual coding of the first actual remailer (of the
Cypherpunks "true" style, not the WizVax/Kleinpaste/Helsingius nym server
style) took a weekend of Perl hacking by Eric Hughes. Knowing _what_ to
program is 90% of the effort.

...
>Of course not. See above. There are many more people who know how to write
>code than there are like you, Tim, who know what to do it *for*.
>Unfortunately, people who write code need to eat. Fortunately, people who
>know what to do can raise money to hire people who write code if the idea's
>good enough to sell twice: once to investors, and again to the market for

This is the crux of my essay here. Read this part even if you skip the rest.

First, this grossly oversimplifies the process of funding companies.
Methinks Bob has read about Jim Clarke's decision to fund Andreesson and
Company too many times. Rarely (very rarely) do the VCs hire people to
write the code for some vision.

Second, writing code is cheap, and requires almost no capital. No
factories, no chip making machines, no clean rooms, etc. Just a bunch of
people with ideas doing it themselves.  Nearly all successful software
companies started out with almost no working capital.

(By contrast, I've watched several "idea" companies which had the "grand
vision" first and then sought to hire the hired guns to write the code. All
four that I have followed failed. One burned through about $5 million,
another through $2 million. And one that just finally gave up the ghost is
reported (by a friend of mine, and I haven't been able to confirm it) to
have absorbed more than $30 million in funding by the initial investors and
then by the parent company which acquired or  semi-acquired them and pumped
more money in.)

Third, I've seen a lot of programmers here in the Bay Area, either because
of my work at Intel on AI/Lisp sorts of stuff, or the Hackers Conference,
or many years of Bay Area parties, Cypherpunks events, etc.  A handful of
these programmers seem to be truly gifted...the rest are, well, hackers. OK
for churning out code with well-defined specifications (and even then the
well known Brooks' Law sorts of factors can make some of them grossly
unproductve). The few who seem really gifted would be fools to work for a
pittance for me--and I'm not willing to give them their easily-gotten daily
consulting rates for months on end, etc.

Fourth, in my years of Cypherpunks involvement, I have never seen any
reasonable investment opportunities. This is not to say there have not been
any, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

Side note: There have been several startups loosely associated, or even
closely associated, with Cypherpunks. Some were started before (Cygnus. for
example), and cannot really be called CP companies. What about C2 Net? I
have no idea what that company is now worth, but I know that it evolved
from Sameer's Community Connexxion. While we all nodded and applauded
Sameer's plan to hook up his dorm or whatever with terminals in the
bathrooms (I'm not joking, by the way), I never saw this as something to
put hard-earned money into. Nor did Sameer solicit "angels" to fund this
vision. At least I never heard him soliciting. He probably--and I haven't
checked with him on this--knew that the best opportunities were funded on a
shoestring, by those involved directly, by those living the dream, and that
diluting his ownership with outside funding would be a mistake. And this
shoestring operation was able to more nimbly move to take advantage of
opportunities, e.g., dropping the original focus on being a kind of "local
ISP" (which is what I perceived the original CC to be) and to instead focus
on SSLeay/Stronghold stuff.

Other companies have sought funding in a grander way. E.g., PGP, Inc. I had
no desire to invest in them, for various reasons. I wish them well, of
course.

Eric Hughes has a company, "Simple Access." To tell the truth, and in spite
of Eric being a longtime friend of mine (since 1990 at least), I really
have no idea what they do. The "www.sac.net" site is remarkably
uninformative. Perhaps by design. In any case, I don't think investing
money in this is what I want to do.

And there's Electric Communities (www.communities.com), containing several
past or present Cypherpunks. I have a lot of hope from them, for
"Microcosm," but,again, this is someone else's vision. It's too soon to
tell if they have a killer app on their hands. If they do, then business
magazines will write sage articles on the wisdom of the VCs. If not, as the
odds must say is likelier, just by Bayesian odds, then they'll be
forgotten, and the VC money will have just evaporated.


Fifth, what I have seen from all of these experiences is that the popular
impression of VC funding, that someone has a good idea, then finds a VC
angel to provide seed funding, then worker bees are hired, etc., is
basically wrong. Or at least a recipe for disaster.

The best growth opportunities come from nimble, mostly self-funded small
teams that can learn in an evolutionary way, changing focus as failures
occur and learning from mistakes. The worst growth opportunities come from
"grand vision" situations.

Sixth, we often forget that "history is written by the winners." We ask the
five star general what his strategies were, forgetting that he became a
general because he survived the battles and triumphed. Sort of like asking
the Lottery winner what her strategy was....one will get answers, but they
probably won't be useful.

Asking Jim Clarke or Bill Gates to opine on his strategies for success is
not quite as pointless, but is not real useful either. Ask also Manny
Fernandez about Gavilan Computer. Or ask the financiers of Ovation,
Processor Technology, Mad Computers, Symbolics, Thinking Machines, Trilogy,
or a hundred other examples of companies that burned through a billion
dollars of hard-earned investor money.

Seventh, I have no doubt that if I issued a cattle call for programmers to
write C code for some pet project I'd get some bites. The "burn rate" for a
supported programmer is higher than the salary, of course. (Many will work
for a share of the company, plus a living wage, but this of course means
incorporation....not a simple matter of just offering to hire programmers.)

Those small software companies I mentioned burned through $5 million in 3
or so years, with nothing to show for it. And they sure did have the grand
vision. Sorry, but I have no desire in even "giving away" a million bucks,
let alone several.

(Another sidenote: In 1993 I elected to help fund a small startup with an
extremely promising technology. And the principals were, and still are,
incredibly hard working people. I call them "sled dogs" for their
perseverance and 80 hours a week (each) work habits. I bought a small stake
in the company, for about $65K. So did several others. And some contract
money came in. The entire funding was burned through in a matter of a year
or two, and now they're struggling. They can't raise moe without giving
their remaining ownership of the company away, and potential investors
would want to see a real product, which they don't have. I still wish them
well, but....tick tock. And that $65K investment necessitated my sale of
$100K worth of various stocks, inclduding Intel, due to the income tax laws
being what they are. That $100K worth of stock would now be worth $600K,
roughly, given that Intel has gone from $15 to $100 in that period. C'est
la vie. But is sure makes me more cautious about funding little startups.
And I for damned sure won't write out checks for people I only casually
know from this mailing list and from occassional Cypherpunks meetings!!!)

I could easily spend $500K (costing me an actual $700K before taxes, less
some tax deductions as a business, possibly) hiring a staff of several
programmers for slightly more than a year. Then it'd be gone. Would a
"product"  be ready? You tell me the odds.

And what would come out of such an effort? I've watched a certain American
living in Europe burn through most (and maybe all?) of his fortune, and
(some say) his family's fortune, and he had the best of pedigrees and the
best set of ideas there is. Now many of us quibble with the choices he
made, in licensing, etc., but this should be a cautionary tale to anyone
who thinks such funding is easy.

I'm not being defeatist. I know that sometimes a $500K investment could
turn into tens of millions. It sometimes happens. But usually not, even for
the proposals that get funded. (And VCs tend to look at 10 to 30 proposals
for every one they actually fund, so the odds in the Cypherpunks pool ain't
real great that even a single proposal would reach the funding stage, let
alone turn into another Netscape or Yahoo.)

No, I'm not a defeatist. But I worked very hard for many years, saving a
large fraction of my paycheck and saving my purchased stock (including
stock options, which were not as lucrative as popular myth might have
it...what made them now worth so much money is that I didn't sell them when
they became available, as so many of my coworkers did). I don't intend to
blow through half a million or a million bucks a year funding some grand
vision, especially when there seem to be few grand visions that are
realistic.

(Plenty of zealots, though.)

>which the code's intended. And, rarely, as in your case, Tim, some people
>with money already know what to do and can hire people to do it. If they
>can "sell" *themselves* on the idea that the market will buy it. The guy
>who founded Aldus did it with Pagemaker. Osbourne did it, too, before he
>made the mistake of hiring a completely ignorant "professional" managment...

The Pagemaker team wrote it on a shoestring. No VCs until much later, when
a product existed. (BTW, similar to the models for both PGP, Inc. and
C2Net, where actual products are actually being sold or distributed.)

As it happens, I knew Adam Osbourne. (I used to go to the Homebrew Computer
Club, circa 1976-78, and met many of those who later became famous. This
also helped shape my skepticism about predicting success, as I would surely
have funded Bob Marsh at Processor Tech before funding Woz and Jobs...and
in fact I bought a Proc Tech Sol-20 in 1978 rather than an "Apple.")


>Well, it was more for the list's benefit than yours, Tim. You're just my
>unsuspecting foil, here. :-).
>
>If, say, John Gilmore were here saying the same kinds of stuff you were,
>I'd have sprung my little rhetorical trap for him instead, by getting him
>to list what we should do next, and then asking him which ones he's going
>to invest in. He'd probably be just as pissed off.

The problem with your "rhetorical traps," by your own admission, is that
you just don't know what you're talking about in most cases, at least
insofar as startups and funding go. I recall your "hothouse" VC proposal (I
may have the name wrong, but the idea was the same as one of those hothouse
schemes, with offices for budding entrepreneurs, etc.).

Maybe in another post I'll give my views on why such hothouse schemes are
lousy ideas. But if yours is up and running and headed for success, I'll be
happy to stand corrected.



>Actually, if you count the money and time he's thrown at politics and
>lawyers, and S/WAN, and cypherpunks, and a few other things, you might say
>Gilmore's made an investment or two. Unfortunately, since he's not using
>actual investment criteria -- profits, in other words -- you might consider
>those investments to have been accidental. On the other hand, investing is
>always about personal choices, whatever they are, and so the loop closes on
>itself, I suppose.

John chooses to do the things he chooses to do. He has more interest in, or
faith in, the legal process. I have more interest in, or faith in, the
expository process. I write about 100 times as much as he does. To each
their own.

I won't get involved in Bob's seeming challenge to me to start matching
John's investments.

>The point is, all of the stuff you've listed costs money to do, Tim, or it
>would have been done already. Which means, unless you're doing this for a
>hobby, spending a very small fraction of your total income, (or an

It costs money, but almost certainly not VC money. Take just one example,
an offshore credit reporting agency not bound by U.S. restrictions under
the FCRA. There is no need for a VC to fund this...this is best done "on a
shoestring" by someone who starts small and expands.

(Think of how Amazon.com got started. Lots of similar examples.)

Personally, I would only get involved in such a thing if I lived offshore,
as the government could otherwise come after me (even for funding such a
thing). But the interesting pros and cons of such a project are well worth
discussing. Maybe someone out there will do it.

(This space reserved for someone to chime in about Vince Cate's ISP
operation in Anguilla.)


>So, Tim, why don't you pick your favorite project on that list, hire some
>people to write code, and go for it? Most of the stuff on your list can't
>cost that much to do, and, if it did, then it's probably the wrong project
>for you, personally, financially, to work on. If that project makes money,
>you can reinvest it in something bigger anyway. Capitalism 101.

Why don't you knock off the "Put up or shut up" kinds of remarks? It's
never a good basis for investment, to respond to "dares."

I'll say what I want to say. Maybe even someday a good investment will
appear. But from what I've seen of the folks at gatherings I meet them at,
few of them would be good candidates for a VC-funded approach.


>I think that Sameer in particular proves that the barriers to entry for
>some financial cryptography markets are still practically nonexistant from
>an investment perspective. Not for the stuff Sameer's doing, of course.

No, what it shows is the power of small entrepreneurs doing very local
things, with the things that succeed being all that we remember (the losers
are forgotten).



>Anyway, especially in anonymous digital bearer settlement, which is the
>really important stuff in financial cryptography, there are lots of
>opportunities out there, and some of them are bootstrapable. Some of those
>which aren't should be funded by single, monomaniacal, investors like the
>Aldus guy did with Pagemaker, or you, Tim, should do with your favorite
>project on the list. Hopefully, the rest the non-bootstrap stuff can be
>done with e$lab or something like it. At least that's what *I'm* hoping...
>;-).

Yeah, well let us know when "e$lab" gets really rolling. Personally, I
think you undercut your own significance by the heavy reliance on cutesy
names centering around "$" in place of "s," as in "e-$pam" and "e$lab."
Cutesy wears thin fast.



>So, Tim, again, which one of those projects do you want to do? Who are you
>going to hire to do them? More important, how much money do you think
>you'll get back by doing it?

See above for my answer.

In the meantime, knock off with the dares.

Maybe we should just mutually ignore each other for a while.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 12:59:58 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 03:59:58 +0800
Subject: Fate of Jews in America (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 8:54 AM -0700 9/3/97, amp at pobox.com wrote:
>
>> Besides, in a society with strong crypto, how are you or any government
>> going to stop people from dealing with whomever they wish, on whatever
>> basis they wish?
>
>and in a society with ubiquitous internet access there will be no way to
>=know= what color someone is unless he advertises it in his sig file.


"On the Internet no one knows you're a nigger."



(Lest anyone be offended, I'm using the vernacular used by colored people.
And I'm paraphrasing the famous cartoon. And I'm using strong language to
make the point as some might themselves make it.)

And this point isn't even strictly true, even for dogs. No doubt dogs on
the Internet would advertise their pedigrees, as people do. And even race
can and is advertised. Also, it is quite possible to imagine the form
"racial credentialling" by private entities could take: visual inspections,
with digital signatures given. DNA tests, etc. Those who want to hang out
with other brothers, or other Aryans, or other Jews, could do so by asking
for such credentials, which of course could be formally isolated from one's
True Name.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









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From: Selective.Marketing at mail.jax.bellsouth.net (Selective.Marketing at mail.jax.bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Here It Is !!
Message-ID: < >


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From cmefford at avwashington.com  Wed Sep  3 13:21:19 1997
From: cmefford at avwashington.com (Chip Mefford)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:21:19 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Nate wrote;

Snip
>  They leave a cop in the front to
>eat donuts and watch TV, and in the back there is a video camera and a radar
>gun.  On the front driver's side mirror there's another camera.  When you
>drive by too fast, you get your picture taken (front and back) and a ticket
>gets mailed to you a week later.


Now THAT is interesting,

seems in Colo, they have some idea about the bill of rights, even though
the plunger-kicker is a doughnut whore, it is still present at the scene,
rather than being an unmanned Bot.

So the plunger-kicker, hypothetically could be crossexamined in court,
unlike the Bots of the Peoples Republik of Virginia.

Isn't there a wierd clause about being able to face your accuser??? Yeah, I
know, I live in a fantasy world.

luv
chipper








From nate at infidels.org  Wed Sep  3 13:28:50 1997
From: nate at infidels.org (Nate Sammons)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:28:50 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Chip Mefford wrote:
> Nate wrote;
> 
> Snip
> >  They leave a cop in the front to
> >eat donuts and watch TV, and in the back there is a video camera and a radar
> >gun.  On the front driver's side mirror there's another camera.  When you
> >drive by too fast, you get your picture taken (front and back) and a ticket
> >gets mailed to you a week later.
> 
> 
> Now THAT is interesting,
> 
> seems in Colo, they have some idea about the bill of rights, even though
> the plunger-kicker is a doughnut whore, it is still present at the scene,
> rather than being an unmanned Bot.
> 
> So the plunger-kicker, hypothetically could be crossexamined in court,
> unlike the Bots of the Peoples Republik of Virginia.
> 
> Isn't there a wierd clause about being able to face your accuser??? Yeah, I
> know, I live in a fantasy world.
> 
> luv
> chipper
> 

Yes... in CO you can take them to court, and if the cop doesn't show up, you
get off free.  I dunno about VA (just moved here 2 months ago).

In CO, you're supposed to be able to ask the cop if you can see the radar
gun that clocked you, and if it's been cleared or the cop won't show it to
you, you cannot be ticketed.  By law, the cop *must* have a visual estimate
of your speed, and a clocked speed on a gun of some kind (a friend of mine is
a Sheriff in southern CO), but they apparently don't tell that to anyone.

-nate







From declan at well.com  Wed Sep  3 14:37:49 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:37:49 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: 



All encryption products sold or distributed in the U.S.
must have a key escrow backdoor "like an airbag in a car,"
law enforcement agents advised a Senate panel this
afternoon.

FBI Director Louis Freeh also told a Senate Judiciary
subcommittee that "network service providers should be
required to have some immediate decryption ability
available" permitting agents to readily descramble
encrypted messages that pass through their system.

This marks the most aggressive push to date for
mandatory domestic key escrow (or "key recovery"),
which means someone else other than the recipient can
decipher messages you send out. Now, the easiest way
to win such a political tussle in Washington is to
control the terms of the debate. And nobody
understands that rule better than Sen. Jon Kyl
(R-Arizona), chair of the Judiciary subcommittee on
technology, terrorism, and government information.

Kyl opened today's hearing not by saying its purpose
was to discuss crypto in a balanced manner, but that
he wanted "to explore how encryption is affecting the
way we deal with criminals, terrorists, and the
security needs of business." Then he talked at length
about "criminals and terrorists" using crypto, and
child pornographers "using encryption to hide
pornographic images of children that they transmit
across the Internet."

Kyl also stacked the three panels. Out of seven
witnesses, five were current or former law enforcement
agents. No privacy or civil liberties advocates
testified. Some companies including FedEx apparently
dropped out when told they'd have to pay lip service
to key escrow if they wanted to speak.

Dorothy Denning, a Georgetown University professor of
computer science, did testify. Kyl made a point of
asking her if she still supported key escrow systems
(two recent articles by Will Rodger and Simson
Garfinkel said she was changing her mind). "I think
key recovery offers a very attractive approach,"
Denning said. What about export controls? "In the
absence of any controls, the problem for law
enforcement would get worse," she replied.

But when Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) asked if
Denning would support a *mandatory* key escrow system,
the computer scientist said she wouldn't. "No, because
we don't have a lot of experience we key recovery
systems... a lot of people are legitimately nervous."

(Keep in mind that although Feinstein supposedly
represents Silicon Valley, she's no friend of high
tech firms. She opposes lifting export controls; in
fact, she says that "nothing other than some form of
mandatory key recovery really does the job" of
preventing crime. Of course, Feinstein doesn't have a
clue. She talks about whether businesses would want "a
hard key or digital key or a key infrastructure." Yes,
folks, this is in fact meaningless blather.)

Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy
Information Center in Washington, DC, says, "Simply
stated, the Senate train is headed in the wrong
direction. But of course this doesn't answer the
question of what will ultimately be resolved by
Congress? There's a very popular measure in the House
right now that's heading in a different direction."

Rotenberg is talking about Rep. Bob Goodlatte's SAFE
bill, which is much more pro-business than S.909,
the McCain-Kerrey Senate bill that Kyl supports. Now,
S.909 doesn't mandate key recovery; it only strongly
encourages it by wielding the federal government's
purchasing power to jumpstart a key recovery
infrastructure.

But Kyl would go further. At a recent Heritage
Foundation roundtable on encryption, I asked him, "Why
not make key recovery technology mandatory -- after
all, terrorists, drug kingpins and other criminals
won't use it otherwise. Kyl's response? Not that it
would be a violation of Constitutional due process and
search and seizure protections or a bad idea. Instead,
he told me he simply didn't have enough votes...

-Declan






From gbroiles at netbox.com  Wed Sep  3 15:07:19 1997
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 06:07:19 +0800
Subject: Crypto hearings via C-SPAN
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903145157.00897100@mail.io.com>




The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism, and Government
Information held hearings this afternoon on encryption; audio is available
now at , I don't follow C-Span so I don't know how
long they'll make the recording available.

I haven't finished listening to the recording, but it so far has featured
Senator Leahy and Louis Freeh reminscing pleasantly about their
early-morning walks near Sen. Leahy's farm in rural Vermont, and Freeh
talking about how the situation prior to the enactment of Digital Telephony
looked bleak - but with the helpful intervention of Congress, a "balance"
was achieved between privacy and law enforcement which has made everyone
happy. Ahem.

Key escrow is being compared to airbags in cars; they're discussing forcing
crypto software authors to include key escrow in their software, and
allowing users to "choose" to use it or not. 


--
Greg Broiles                | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles at netbox.com         | 
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto.






From rodger at worldnet.att.net  Wed Sep  3 15:23:39 1997
From: rodger at worldnet.att.net (Will Rodger)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 06:23:39 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903180515.00714940@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:13 PM 9/3/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>All encryption products sold or distributed in the U.S.
>must have a key escrow backdoor "like an airbag in a car,"
>law enforcement agents advised a Senate panel this
>afternoon.

Yes, but  -  Freeh said all products needed to have the _option_ of a 
key-escrow backdoor built in. The actual deployment of the system 
should be at the users' discretion. Then again, Sen. Feinstein 
suggested he needed mandatory key escrow since there was no way to 
make a voluntary system work. Freeh seemed to warm to the idea of 
making key escrow mandatory.

"Mandatory key escrow would the best solution - I have to be candid 
with you on that," he said. 

Unfortunately, he added, mandatory key escrow isn't a possibility - 
or foolproof, either.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNA3e/EcByjT5n+LZAQGZEAgAoKI4lcelu7DFrA2hmpKIpdSo23oXVL0g
Wbr6v6hG/QFi8hehtU2kowZkBBT5Ztx5eTRjsEEnWebM5ck/xLkvKXAMIPyoU8Gy
YDKyKDWqBDp0pqe8sr5ZPMRpu0VZobcUrdcoTQBcZYDIrmFSnvhiEZy1gmfgKvac
Ys1BlsnfcofEj41voj0Uy+acAjdEEkm7UMqniOoF6/bLD2FmLSMXMm9aXdS+UoJy
PJS+Cyc9ZrELA/jCD7hiM+5iYTD18ZU9rrZTBnkyrQYzmNFt0Y3DfyFuc5GUhQ99
Z1YZRXXCWm6nPa1wWthskbd3X6Z4uUHwLm92F3yl29Q10+r98Wmh1g==
=sOfC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Will Rodger                                           Voice: +1 202-408-7027 
Washington Bureau Chief                        Fax: +1 202-789-2036
Inter at ctive Week                    http://www.interactiveweek.com
A Ziff-Davis Publication            
   PGP 2.6.2: D83D 0095 299C 2505 25FA 93FE DDF6 9B5F







From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu  Wed Sep  3 15:27:07 1997
From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (Damaged Justice)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 06:27:07 +0800
Subject: Unlicensed net.psychotherapy
Message-ID: <199709032214.SAA26283@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>



   
[somewhat snipped from raw lynx dump]

   Daily Double Scoop Graphic
   Just enough Net news.
   
   By John Motavalli
   
   Is Psychotherapy On The Net Legal?
   
   HOW DOES ONE OFFER PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP ONLINE? Very cautiously.
   
   The issue of whether the practice of psychology or psychiatry online
   is legal still appears to be a bit unclear. Psychologists have to be
   licensed to practice in each state. If they're doing psychotherapy
   over the Internet, and they're offering therapy to people in states
   where they're not licensed, are they breaking the law?
   
   Sacramento psychologist Ronald L. Mann, Ph.D., has a [8]site, allowing
   a visitor to "e-mail a question (about anything from relationships to
   career changes)." This service costs you $20 a question. Dr. Mann, who
   is licensed in California only, said he's not breaking the law because
   he is not offering psychotherapy online.
   
   "Technically, psychotherapy is about exploring unconscious thoughts
   and feelings and making interpretations about these earlier memories,
   feelings, and linking them to present circumstances," Mann said. "I'm
   uncomfortable (professionally and personally) doing psychotherapy on
   the Internet. I think people need a personal face-to-face relationship
   that will provide emotional support when they get into intense
   powerful emotional material. I can't offer that through e-mail. What I
   can offer is good sound educational advice and point them in a good
   direction."
   
   Doug Fizel, deputy director of public affairs at the [9]American
   Psychological Association in Washington, D.C., said the question of
   the legality of online psychiatry is under study. "That really has not
   been worked out yet within the APA," he said. "It does really raise a
   lot of good questions, as to whether someone in California can legally
   offer therapy to someone in New York. You also have to ask whether
   someone can truly enter into a genuine therapeutic relationship
   online."
   
   Mann noted a recent correspondence he had with a young man who has
   some personal problems. "He is in college, and he has very poor
   self-esteem. He's really anxious in his relationships with other
   people, he has trouble sustaining relationships. We talked (by e-mail)
   about what it takes to have comfortable relationships with other
   people, and early childhood issues."
   
   I said this sounded like psychotherapy. "I know it's not
   psychotherapy," Mann replied. "I could have said, 'Why don't we do
   this [a treatment process]. I didn't. I actually think psychotherapy
   wouldn't work very well via e-mail."
   
   Adds Fizel, "It's more a question of ethical practice -- the
   difference between law (which a state would determine) and ethical
   practice (determined by an organization like ours)." He concludes that
   "So far, the questions have been raised, but the answers haven't been
   found."
  
 
   8. http://www.ronmann.com/
   9. http://www.apa.org/






From rewards at t-1net.com  Thu Sep  4 06:54:11 1997
From: rewards at t-1net.com (rewards at t-1net.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 06:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: KEEP YOUR EYES ON YOUR MAILBOX ....
Message-ID: 


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From declan at well.com  Wed Sep  3 16:01:45 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:01:45 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970903180515.00714940@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: 




On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Will Rodger wrote:

> Yes, but  -  Freeh said all products needed to have the _option_ of a 
> key-escrow backdoor built in. The actual deployment of the system 
> should be at the users' discretion. Then again, Sen. Feinstein 
> suggested he needed mandatory key escrow since there was no way to 
> make a voluntary system work. Freeh seemed to warm to the idea of 
> making key escrow mandatory.

Will is right to say Feinstein was harping on mandatory key escrow the
entire time. I disagree, though, that Freeh "seemed to warm" to the idea;
it's been a wet dream of the FBI for the longest time. Towards the end of
his testimony he was perhaps less guarded in his calls for it, that's all.

As for the backdoor, Freeh was vague on what that would mean. At one point
he said it could be done in a mandatory or voluntary manner as long as it
got done. At another he talked about mandating it but giving users the
option to turn it off -- but then what's the use of mandating it? I've
attached some excerpts from the transcript below that might be helpful.

> Unfortunately, he added, mandatory key escrow isn't a possibility - 
> or foolproof, either.

I didn't catch him saying mandatory k.e. isn't a possibility, but he did
admit it wasn't foolproof. Check out the transcript.

-Declan

---

[Louis Freeh is talking]

Here we're not saying the key recovery standard X, Y, Z.  We're telling
the manufacturers that they need to have a feature that would allow
immediate decryption, and they can do that in the cheapest, most efficient
way that they can design.  And I think they can do that fairly easily.

[...]

There are a number of ways that that could be
implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum
is a feature implemented and designed by the
manufacturers of the products and services here that
will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful
decryption of the communications in transit or the
stored data.  That could be done in a mandatory
manner.  It could be done in an involuntary manner.
But the key is that we would have the ability, once we
have the court order in hand, to get that information
and get it real-time without waiting for what it would
take for a supercomputer to give us, which is too long
for life or safety reasons.

[...]

Mandatory key recovery, to the extent that
it was implemented, would be the best law enforcement
solution.  I would not be candid with you if I told
you anything other than that.

[...]

I think we can design a system short of mandatory key
recovery which will work certainly better than no
system at all.  And I think the precepts of 909 and
some additions which could be added thereto will give
law enforcement at least a fighting chance, which is
really what we're asking for in this context, to keep
a technique which is very valuable. I don't think
we'll ever solve the problem 100 percent.  There are
loopholes now.  There will be loopholes even with a
mandatory key recovery system.  What we want to try to
do is design an infrastructure which will give us as
many access points for that court order as possible. 
And that's the end game that we're involved in right
now.







From cpunks at www.video-collage.com  Wed Sep  3 17:22:57 1997
From: cpunks at www.video-collage.com (Cypherpunks Maintenance Account)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:22:57 +0800
Subject: Stay issued; modified stay to follow (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709040014.UAA19099@www.video-collage.com>



----- Forwarded message from Bob Kohn -----

>From cpunks  Fri Aug 29 04:41:12 1997
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970829010600.038952dc at mail.pgp.com>
X-Sender: kohn at mail.pgp.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 b3 (32)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:06:00 -0700
To: Cindy Cohn 
From: Bob Kohn 
Subject: Re: Stay issued; modified stay to follow
Cc: sadams at forbes.com, telstar at wired.com, plotnikoff at aol.com,
        Ewasserman at sjmercury.com, dang at cnet.com, steven at echo.net,
        abate at ccnet.com, wendyg at cix.compulink.co.uk, amy at netcom.com,
        courtm at cnet.com, alan.boyle at MSNBC.COM, declan at well.com,
        sep at cbsnews.com, kenc at cwi.emap.com, arb at well.com, exp at mk.ibek.com,
        bransten at interactive.wsj.com, TomBemis at pacbell.net,
        sam.perry at reuters.com, jimevans at aol.com, ljflynn at aol.com,
        wendyl at ljx.com, bernstein-announce at toad.com
In-Reply-To: <199708290123.SAA24903 at gw.quake.net>
Reply-To: Bob Kohn 
Sender: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com
Precedence: bulk

[text/enriched is unsupported, treating like TEXT/PLAIN]

Too bad.  Prof. Bernstein was perfectly positioned to become a great -- and the only legal -- exporting reseller of PGP software.  (no, this is not off the record)


Bob



At 06:21 PM 8/28/97 -0700, Cindy Cohn wrote:

>During a conference call with counsel today, Judge Patel issued a stay of

>the injunctive relief issued in her Opinion of August 25, 1997, effective

>until September 8. 

>

> On September 8 (or sooner if we get the papers to her) the Court she will

>issue a formal Stay Pending Appeal which will stay the injunctive relief

>issued in her Opinion of August 25, 1997, except that an injunction shall be

>reinstated to prevent the prosecution of Professor Bernstein for the

>"unlicensed export" of Snuffle 5.0 (which includes Snuffle and Unsnuffle)

>and any later versions of that program which he has developed.

>

>This eliminates, at least for the meantime, the injunctive relief granted to

>Bernstein as to any other computer programs which he may have developed or

>otherwise wished to publish.  It also eliminates the protections for persons

>other than Professor Bernstein.

>

>The government has said that it may still challenge this more limited stay

>in the 9th Circuit.  Professor Bernstein may also seek relief from the stay

>from the 9th Circuit.

>

>Cindy

>************************ 

>Cindy A. Cohn                                                               

>McGlashan & Sarrail, P. C.

>177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor                                            

>San Mateo, CA  94402

>(415) 341-2585 (tel)

>(415)341-1395 (fax)

>Cindy at McGlashan.com

>http://www.McGlashan.com

>

>

>




Robert H. Kohn

Vice President, Business Development

PRETTY GOOD PRIVACY, INC.

2121 S. El Camino Real, 9th Floor

San Mateo, California 94403

Direct: (415) 524-6220

Cellular: (415) 297-6527

Main: (415) 572-0430

Fax: (415) 572-1932

kohn at pgp.com

PGP Home Page: http://www.pgp.com

Personal Home page: http://www.kohnmusic.com/people/bkohn.html


"If all the personal computers in the world - ~260 million
computers - were put to work on a single PGP-encrypted message, it would
still take an estimated 12 million times the age of the universe, on
average, to break a single message."

 -- William Crowell, Deputy Director of the National Security Agency, 

	testifying before the U.S. Congress on March 20, 1997

----- End of forwarded message from Bob Kohn -----






From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Wed Sep  3 17:26:30 1997
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:26:30 +0800
Subject: don't let export controls hinder coding (Re: Things we should be working on...)
In-Reply-To: <5uk1uc$jso$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <199709032347.AAA00901@server.test.net>




Ian Goldberg  writes:
> In article <199709022216.XAA00915 at server.test.net>,
> Adam Back   wrote:
> >I can't see that export controls are much of a big deal for freeware
> >cypherpunk software ... just publish it on a US site with whatever
> >access controls you fancy.  It'll make it's way out of the country in
> >a few minutes [...]
> >
> >It's not as if you're trying to sell it, or are a corporation worrying
> >about stepping on toes at NSA Inc. 
> >
> >Just release it in the US.  Lets someone else do the export.
> 
> I'm not primarily talking about _products_, here; I'm not selling stuff.
> I'm just trying to publish!  Part of my research (which focuses on computer
> security) involves (surprise) building secure systems or breaking insecure
> ones.  Where this involves cryptography or cryptanalysis, I am prohibited
> from publishing these systems on the Net, from my homepage (and I don't
> _want_ to put access control on my homepage).

Hmmm...  There are lots of crypto papers on the net.  Pick a US
cryptographer, his home page will be bristling with papers
(postscript, html whatever).

If you're talking about publishing code to go with your paper, well
publish the URL in your paper, and put the code at the URL.  There
seems to be a reasonable selection of code at the cypherpunks ftp site
@ berekely judging from the Italian mirror of it.

Some of _your_ code is on that site...

Adam
--

Have you exported RSA today?






From pk at dev.null  Wed Sep  3 17:38:01 1997
From: pk at dev.null (Psycho Killer)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:38:01 +0800
Subject: DC cypherpunk soccer team?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <340DC513.325@dev.null>



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> If you live in Washington, play soccer, and are a libertarian
> (anarcho-capitalists are also welcome), email me. The fall league is
> starting in two weeks.
> 
> The name of the team? "The Invisible Foot"

Declan,
  Please be advised that the "Psycho Killers" in Austin, Texas, have
already drafted Tim C. May. However, if we lose too many players in
trying to 'enforce' our 'right' to have him play for us, then we
may be open to trade negotiations.

Charles Whitman, KOTM







From tm at dev.null  Wed Sep  3 17:44:50 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:44:50 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <340DFD85.56C7@dev.null>



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> All encryption products sold or distributed in the U.S.
> must have a key escrow backdoor "like an airbag in a car,"
> law enforcement agents advised a Senate panel this
> afternoon.

  I must have not been given the proper ballots when I voted. I didn't
see the FBI or any other LEA on *my* ballot. If these people are going
to be running the country, and making the decisions as to what does and
does not constitute threats to the citizens and the country and the
world, shouldn't we have some say in who they are?

> Kyl opened today's hearing not by saying its purpose
> was to discuss crypto in a balanced manner, but that
> he wanted "to explore how encryption is affecting the
> way we deal with criminals, terrorists, and the
> security needs of business." 

  Yoo-hoo! Over here! Yoo-hoo! It's the CITIZENS! We still exist!

> Then he talked at length
> about "criminals and terrorists" using crypto, and
> child pornographers "using encryption to hide
> pornographic images of children that they transmit
> across the Internet."

  If we imprison more of our citizen-units than most dictatorships, then
who the fuck are we imprisoning?
  Are we *not* imprisoning criminals, terrorists and child pornographers
and other scum? What percentage of the population needs to consist of
LEA agents, and what percentage of the population must we imprison in
order to put away criminals, terrorists and child pornographers?
  50%?...80%...100%?

  > Kyl also stacked the three panels. Out of seven
> witnesses, five were current or former law enforcement
> agents. No privacy or civil liberties advocates
> testified.

  That's right. The correct answer is 71% LEA agents, and
100% of the citizens in prison.
  I hate to support this approach to law enforcement, but if the people
in charge of the safety of the nation and its citizens cannot prevent
criminals, terrorists and child pornographers from running rampant with
the mountains of laws and technology currently at their fingertips, then
I guess we'll just have to pass more laws and put all munitions and
privacy technology in the hands of the LEA's.

  Besides, the citizen-units will be 'happier' in prison, where they can
get the really *good* drugs and indulge in anal sex without fear of
imprisonment.

TruthMonger






From shamrock at netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 17:46:10 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:46:10 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
Message-ID: 



Sometimes these guys can still surprise even me. That statement below is 
about as blatant as it gets:

[Freeh]
There are a number of ways that that could be
implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum
is a feature implemented and designed by the
manufacturers of the products and services here that
will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful
decryption of the communications in transit or the
stored data.  That could be done in a mandatory
manner.  It could be done in an involuntary manner.
But the key is that we have the ability.
--------------------------------------------------------------


Let me get this straight: they need *as a minimum* instant access to all 
cleartext. So what is the "more than minimum" they truly desire?

And the two alternatives Freeh proposes to obtain this *minimum* are 
either "mandatory" or "involuntary". What a choice!

--Lucky






From dbmkts at kryan.com  Thu Sep  4 09:02:29 1997
From: dbmkts at kryan.com (Bassmkt)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: STRATEGIES FOR MARKETING ONLINE
Message-ID: <199709041919SAA5039@post.iosys.net>


Greetings,
I'm responding to your posting online and was wondering if you would like a free copy of my informative article " PROPER E-MAIL STRATEGIES FOR MARKETING ONLINE". 
Just e-mail me back and ask for a free copy.
Thank you,
Donald Bass






From tm at dev.null  Wed Sep  3 18:05:09 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:05:09 +0800
Subject: Death of Privacy / Was: Di Privacy, Die!
Message-ID: <340E0380.1052@dev.null>



>From the Not-ly News !Server:

[Mainstream, Terra] -- "Huh?" by Defcom McCull'em

  Mainstream Media sources today denied rumors of news stories from
real people, in the real world, finding their way into the bowels of
the mainstream press before being burped out to make way for more of
the same-old-same-old.
  Asked why the initial reports of eyewitnesses using words such as
"explosion" were quickly buried in favor of the word "crash," sources
replied, only one guy, somewhere in Canada, was awake at that hour, and
he will soon be dead, so we can't really confirm the existence of those
eyewitnesses, since no one wants to talk to them.
  Asked why initial accounts had "five" reporters being detained and
why a rumor concerning the accidental death of "two" reporters, suddenly
turned into "seven" reporters being detained, the sources would only 
comment, "These were only preliminary estimates, before we had a chance
to talk to our media prisoners and explain the severity of what they
would be facing if their stories were not 'politically correct'."

  Asked why statements by Fayed family members concerning their views
that Dodi and Diana were 'offed' by the monarchy in a bid to thwart
a gain in the political influence of sandnigger mobsters, mainstream
media sources said, "We saw no need to cover old ground which had been
dealt with on the Cypherpunks list, both before and after the event."
  Asked about the missing right wheel on the death vehicle, sources 
inferred that it was found on the stretcher that carried Diana to the
hospital, next to the magic bullet that killed Kennedy.

NotlyNewsMonger
"All the news that gets you killed."






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 18:23:00 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:23:00 +0800
Subject: DC cypherpunk soccer team?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 1:14 PM -0700 9/3/97, Psycho Killer wrote:
>Declan McCullagh wrote:
>>
>> If you live in Washington, play soccer, and are a libertarian
>> (anarcho-capitalists are also welcome), email me. The fall league is
>> starting in two weeks.
>>
>> The name of the team? "The Invisible Foot"
>
>Declan,
>  Please be advised that the "Psycho Killers" in Austin, Texas, have
>already drafted Tim C. May. However, if we lose too many players in
>trying to 'enforce' our 'right' to have him play for us, then we
>may be open to trade negotiations.
>
>Charles Whitman, KOTM

Charles, you are a towering figure in our pantheon!

But be advised that I don't play the form of soccer (football), known as
"Mayan football," where the losing team is sacrificed.

The variant I play, sometimes dubbed "May football," sacrifices the enemies
before the game starts and uses their heads. It's getting tough, though, as
women invade the D.C. work force...their long hair tends to get tangled up
and alter the direction the heads roll.

At least one bull dyke has mannishly short hair, though.

--Klaus!, goalee of Team May



There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From feanor at nym.alias.net  Wed Sep  3 18:29:15 1997
From: feanor at nym.alias.net (Feanor)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:29:15 +0800
Subject: PGP Keyservers and 5.0 DSS/D-H Keys...
Message-ID: <19970904010624.28235.qmail@nym.alias.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sep 3, 17:07, Unicorn wrote:
} Subject: PGP Keyservers and 5.0 DSS/D-H Keys...
> Hi Guys (F/M),
> 
> Just a quick question.
> 
> Are the current (mostly PGP 2.6.x based) keyservers able to incorporate,
> store and provide the new PGP  5.0 based DSS/Diffie-Hellman keys? And if

Well, given that PGP 5 has a functionality just for sending and recieving keys
with said keyservers... :-)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQBVAwUBNA3U0RkU7YRPCnEJAQGgRwH/fX99svPMi51o7NIJGwrC1k59QioStPsk
A9jjBb3MX7JMaYEWg9ubwhZMg3RPpa6ASSnvnRMxkVgG3sELIGR1Sg==
=xmXy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Wed Sep  3 18:55:55 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:55:55 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709040143.DAA17878@basement.replay.com>



Chip Mefford propelled us into the future by writing:

>Fairfax County, In the Peoples Republic of Virginia

It's Fairfax City, I think, which is an independent city wholly contained
in Fairfax County. At least they were the only ones with this shit deployed.

>Citizens in the PRV who have been travelling in Fairfax County will soon
>be recieving summons to come pay their dues to the monster in the form of
>traffic citations for running red lights issued by Big Brother.

This was discussed a while ago. Buy a license plate cover ("Just protecting my
plates against stones and vandalism, Officer!") that's virtually transparent
from head-on, but opaque beyond  a certain view angle. I think these things
exist -- look in Car & Driver or some such.

And if some peckerhead parks his SUV in your driveway to nail speeders, buy a
"radar detector tester" (maybe C&D, or an electronic-hobbyist's magazine) and
crank it up every now and again while he's trying to catch violators. Do it
from the safety of your house so you don't wind up with a nightstick up your
ass.



>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.

And I'll give my kids a can of spray paint and a ladder. Maybe I'll offer 
bonus prizes if they can figure out an inventive, undetectable way to disable
the fucker.

Shit, they're trying to nail Marv Albert for consensual sodomy, which is also
a "crime" in the PRV, if they can't get him on the assault charges. So think twice before you and your SO get into acts of Hooverism down Virginia way.

N.








From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 19:57:15 1997
From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:57:15 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199709040143.DAA17878@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903193232.006e28e8@popd.netcruiser>



At 03:43 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>And if some peckerhead parks his SUV in your driveway to nail speeders, buy a
>"radar detector tester" (maybe C&D, or an electronic-hobbyist's magazine) and
>crank it up every now and again while he's trying to catch violators. Do it
>from the safety of your house so you don't wind up with a nightstick up your
>ass.

Rigging your microwave so it will run with the door open works real good,
too.  Just remember to stand a safe distance behind it...

Jonathan Wienke

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, U.S. Constitution)

When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just the police.

PGP 2.6.2 RSA Key Fingerprint: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
DSS/D-H Key Fingerprint: 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC
Public keys available at pgpkeys.mit.edu. PGP encrypted e-mail preferred.

US/Canadian Windows 95/NT or Mac users:
Get Eudora Light + PGP 5.0 for free at http://www.eudora.com/eudoralight/
Get PGP 5.0 for free at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pgp-form.html

Other PGP 5.0 sources:
http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/
http://www.heise.de/ct/pgpCA/download.shtml
ftp://ftp.pca.dfn.de/pub/pgp/V5.0/
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/pc/win95/pgp
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/mac/pgp
http://www.shopmiami.com/utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/pgp/pgp50/win/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0



The death of the "People's Princess" is bringing calls for laws to
protect 'privacy'.
  Except that the laws being talked about are mostly about limiting
what people are allowed to do in public. Same-old, same-old.
  Laws are being discussed that deal with the 'licensing' and the
'regulation' of telephoto lenses and listening devices. Same-old,
same-old.

  The fact that Dodi and Diana's staged death took place in a country
with the most plentiful and restrictive laws concerning the public
movement and actions of the press, seems to be lost in the similarly
staged outrage against the private press.
  Does anyone doubt that whatever new laws are enacted will result in
the further herding of the press into mainstream feeding pens, ala
Whitehouse news conferences and military maneuvers? 

  Of equal importance to the effect on restrictions of public activity
that the staged murder of Diana and Dodi will have, is the restrictions
on the press, through threats of arrest and intimidation.
  Typical government-spook operation. Witnesses and evidence subjected
to detention and seizure. All 'news' of the event being coordinated by
goverenment/LEA shills who 'point' us towards 'those responsible' and
'at fault'--with a mainstream press providing us with the 'solutions'
to preventing the actions of free people resulting in similar tragedies
in the future.
  The message is clear--freedom leads to tragedy. If people run around
doing what they want to do in public, then there will be accidents and
tragedies. This must be prevented at all costs.

  Get real. The same monarchy spooks who released the Dianagate tapes
of Diana's private telephone conversations, in order to make her look
like a slut in order to make Prince Charles sluttery look less serious,
watch Diana twenty-four hours a day, are the same people who took
possession of the photographic evidence of the murder scene.
  Diana herself, in a public interview, spoke of the Dianagate tapes as
being just a small part of the monarchist conspiracy to tear her down
and nullify the threat she presented to the anal retentive structure of
the monarchy.
  Dodi's ex-fiancee plainly stated on TV that Diana would be alive today
if she had not taken up with Dodi. The Fayed family has made it clear
that they feel the deaths were the result of the monarchy not wanting
Diana's image and influence being connected to those outside the loop
of the monarchy.
  Think about it. The mother of the future King of England, getting
married to a rich, political mobster. [Translate~~a non-white who buys
parliamentary votes.] It's not going to happen.

  Ask yourself this--"What do the assassinated free-world figures all
have in common?"--John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy,
John Lennon, Princess Diana.
  Answer: "They are decent people, visionaries who used their power
and influence to fight for the empowerment of the citizens, and against
the reign of a dictatorial secret government."
  Answer #2: "Once they were dead, everything they stood for became
subject to revisionist history by their murderers."

  The initial assault after Diana's death was on the free press, the
secondary assault (in reality, the main attack, the first only being
a diversionary maneuver) focuses on placing the 'blame' for Diana's
death with her stepping outside the loop of the anal-retentive monarchy
and hanging out with parliamentary vote-buying thugs who employ loud
mouthed drunk drivers.

  In the age of the ten-second sound-byte, giving the government spooks
two whole days to manipulate the press coverage before the private
citizens at the murder scene are allowed to speak, is a godsend.
  Once the paparrazi and the sandniggers have had the blame balanced on
their shoulders, the press is not about to backtrack and look for the
true story. Even job interview self-help books tell us that the first
two minutes set the tone and future impression of the whole process.
The governement FUD disseminators know that if they can have the first
say in any event, that those pursuing the truth have to play catch-up
from that point forward.

  Has anyone noticed that the 'news' surrounding this event has had
precious little coverage of the people actually involved in the whole
affair?
  The doctor who magically appeared on the scene and 'treated' Diana
isn't known about or accessible for a couple days. The police, firemen,
etc., are not interviewed, like they are in even the most extremely 
inconsequential of news story coverages.
  Get real--if a fucking cat gets rescued from a cocksucking tree, then
we get to see an interview with the hero at the scene. In the death of
a major public figure, the press doesn't bother to interview those at
the scene of the event? Right...
  The first eye-witness interview I saw was by someone who used the
word "explosion." That was the _last_ time I saw that interview. I saw
_one_ mention of the Fayed family saying the monarchy had murdered
Dodi and Diana. Never saw that again. Must not be news. Right...

  Notice that the press reports that the two little princes want to 
walk behind the casket. Is it a 'coincidence' that the two innocent
victims who are now under the thumb of the monarchist spin-doctors
are going to be front and center in the coverup of their mother's 
murder? 
  Why are the thousands of death threats against Prince Charles if he
tries to use the funeral to redeem his image *not* news?

  Why? Same-old, same-old.

TruthMonger






From pooh at efga.org  Wed Sep  3 20:10:16 1997
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:10:16 +0800
Subject: PGP Keyservers and 5.0 DSS/D-H Keys...
In-Reply-To: <19970903182604.17756@sequent.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903224658.03486844@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



At 06:26 PM 9/3/97 +0200, Unicorn wrote:
>Are the current (mostly PGP 2.6.x based) keyservers able to incorporate,
>store and provide the new PGP  5.0 based DSS/Diffie-Hellman keys? And if
>not how can  one publish (the public  part of) such a  key using nothing
>more than email or a web-browser behind a firewall that does not allow a
>direct connection to a keyserver on port 11371?

Part of your answer is that the 2.6.x servers, once modified, will handle
5.0 keys.

We have a keyserver running at keys.efga.org that handles the 2.6.x and the
5.0 keys.  Right now I think we only support the PGP5.0 HTML based
interface that operates on port 11371.  I don't think we implemented web
based or email based key submission.  This would be trivial to add, we just
didn't do it.


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh at efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key






From brianbr at together.net  Wed Sep  3 20:23:18 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:23:18 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709040308.XAA30508@mx02.together.net>



On 9/3/97 8:30 PM, Lucky Green (shamrock at netcom.com)  passed this wisdom:

>[Freeh]
>There are a number of ways that that could be
>implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum
>is a feature implemented and designed by the
>manufacturers of the products and services here that
>will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful
>decryption of the communications in transit or the
>stored data.  That could be done in a mandatory
>manner.  It could be done in an involuntary manner.
>But the key is that we have the ability.
>-

 ... hmmmm,  immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they 
plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to 
walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which 
needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and 
find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.


Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
         For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
  "In effect, to follow, not to force the public inclination; to give a
   direction, a form, a technical dress, and a specific sanction, to the
   general sense of the community, is the true end of legislature." 
       -- Edmund Burke







From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 20:23:28 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:23:28 +0800
Subject: Militias
Message-ID: 




I just watched an hour-long special on CBS, "The Birth of a Militia," about
the Rocky Mountain Militia is southern Utah.

On nearly every issue I felt the militia members were right. Personally, I
don't share their animosity toward Jews and blacks, but their beliefs are
theirs to practice as they wish (including fighting laws which force them
to mix with other races, as with laws which force them to hire those they
have no desire to hire).

I got so angry at their persecution that I felt like going out target
shooting at my favorite range (open late at night). But since I went out
shooting just this afternoon, I guess I'll stay home and rant.

The militia member who was arrested, tried, and convicted of illegally
owning a gun, evading the police, and driving without a license, apparently
committed no serious crimes, by my standards. He didn't rob, he didn't
rape, he didn't kill.

As the Sheriff was quoted several times as saying, he "mouthed off." And
apparently being a "skinhead" and a "militia member" is ipso facto proof of
criminality. The Sheriff said he planned to get Johnny.

Fuck them.  Political crimes. Just like Bell.

Maybe I will get in another hour of target practice tonight. The end times
are coming.

(BTW, the CBS piece left on this note: Johnny (didn't catch his last name)
is holed up this evening in his compound, refusing to report for
sentencing. The State Security Bureau, er, the Sheriff, says a shootout is
likely.)

--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From brianbr at together.net  Wed Sep  3 20:39:26 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:39:26 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: <199709040317.XAA32663@mx01.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

 So, looking at all this, what does it mean???? Are they going to have
an amnesty period when I can run down to my local firehouse and turn
in my PGP5 CDROM without risking going to jail? Will MIT turn over
logs of everyone who ever d/l-ed PGP2 and we have four weeks to turn
over every backup disk we ever made? If they do get this by us, and I
decide to use their silly-assed encryption, do I get a ten year all
expense paid vacation at the Allenwood Hilton if I send my bootlegged
PGP message inside their encryption?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNA4oP8dZgC62U/gIEQLkIQCgsEasNm3JxBrHz1djEo2BvO1jyikAnis8
fDdwE1GjXBOhOMRrNRxSs0XW
=Wz3y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
        For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
  "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" -- Samuel Johnson
  "With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I
    beg to submit that it is the first." 
           -- Ambrose Bierce's commentary on Johnson's definition.







From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Wed Sep  3 20:52:10 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:52:10 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709040328.XAA03610@www.video-collage.com>



At 03:43 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
...
>>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
>>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.
>
>And I'll give my kids a can of spray paint and a ladder. Maybe I'll offer 
>bonus prizes if they can figure out an inventive, undetectable way to disable
>the fucker.
...
In Altus, it is illegal to sell spray paint to persons under the age of 18.
That makes two violations of their rights that I know of.
The curfue which was enacted a couple years ago being the first.
All because the local politicians are fully aware that they are too young to
vote.






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 20:55:04 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:55:04 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199709040143.DAA17878@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 



At 6:43 PM -0700 9/3/97, Anonymous wrote:

>This was discussed a while ago. Buy a license plate cover ("Just protecting my
>plates against stones and vandalism, Officer!") that's virtually transparent
>from head-on, but opaque beyond  a certain view angle. I think these things
>exist -- look in Car & Driver or some such.

By the way, the last time I was driving around the Greater Washington
National Compound, there were signs in Virginia declaring that use of radar
detectors was illegal.

This sort of banning of certain technologies which "hinder law enforcement"
is of course what we were talking about a few weeks ago, with the "for law
enforcment use only" trends in the PRA.

The State Parks and Recreation cops I was shooting next to today were
wearing body armor...it looked like Second Chance Class III stuff. These
vests are no longer sold to civilians. (I don't know if this a "voluntary"
action by the body armor makers, or is codified in some obscure law. I know
that there are periodic calls to outlaw ownership of such things by
civilians, including certain types of bullets, certain types of detectors,
etc. These rangers were sharing the range, so to speak, and gave me some
long looks when I entered carrying an assault rifle case and went over to
my lane. By the way, in case anyone is wondering what State Parks and
Recreation rangers were doing at a target range, they were carrying .40 S&W
semiautos...looked like mostly SIGs. Here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, the
rangers are essentially narcs and often run into marijuana fields hidden up
in the forests.

I didn't  mention to them my felon status.

--Tim May




There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 21:27:56 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:27:56 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: <199709040317.XAA32663@mx01.together.net>
Message-ID: 



At 8:17 PM -0700 9/3/97, Brian B. Riley wrote:

> So, looking at all this, what does it mean???? Are they going to have
>an amnesty period when I can run down to my local firehouse and turn
>in my PGP5 CDROM without risking going to jail? Will MIT turn over
>logs of everyone who ever d/l-ed PGP2 and we have four weeks to turn
>over every backup disk we ever made? If they do get this by us, and I
>decide to use their silly-assed encryption, do I get a ten year all
>expense paid vacation at the Allenwood Hilton if I send my bootlegged
>PGP message inside their encryption?

As I understand what Freeh said, not even he is talking about banning
existing programs. Rather, he's talking about requiring the "capability" be
added to Internet programs (presumably browsers, mail programs, etc.). It's
obvious that one could use an old word processor, editor, PGP, etc., and
then paste the text into the Freeh-approved Internet program. What would
the status be of this?

(In other words, it would be a truly draconian move to try to ban all
encrypted messages.)

But I think we should accelerate the use of steganography.

(Oh, and for the bozos who've said I just "talk," while they write code,
check the ancient archives of sci.crypt, circa 1989, and see that I
reported on using the LSBs of GIF images and DAT tapes to hide bits. I
didn't find earlier messages in sci.crypt reporting on this idea, but it's
quite possible that I was not the first to think of this. I don't claim a
scientific discovery! I reported my experiments over the next couple of
years, and Romana Machado credited me in her "Stego" program, circa '93. Of
course, by the time Peter Wayner wrote his little book, "Disappearing
Writing," or somesuch, all of the "inventors" of this LSB approach to
crypto were others, and they did their work several years after my
sci.crypt posts. I guess I didn't shout out enough. Or Peter didn't do much
research.)

--Tim

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 21:57:48 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:57:48 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199709040328.XAA03610@www.video-collage.com>
Message-ID: 



At 8:28 PM -0700 9/3/97, Sean Roach wrote:
>At 03:43 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>...
>>>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
>>>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.
>>
>>And I'll give my kids a can of spray paint and a ladder. Maybe I'll offer
>>bonus prizes if they can figure out an inventive, undetectable way to disable
>>the fucker.
>...
>In Altus, it is illegal to sell spray paint to persons under the age of 18.
>That makes two violations of their rights that I know of.
>The curfue which was enacted a couple years ago being the first.
>All because the local politicians are fully aware that they are too young to
>vote.

In my community, it is even illegal to buy spray paints and give them or
make them available to those under some age (18 or 21...I don't know).

I like my solution a lot better: anyone can buy the fucking spray paint,
but taggers are shot down by those whose property they're trespassing on.

Seems consistent with personal freedom and responsibility.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From whgiii at amaranth.com  Wed Sep  3 21:58:34 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:58:34 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: <199709040317.XAA32663@mx01.together.net>
Message-ID: <199709040356.WAA10181@mailhub.amaranth.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199709040317.XAA32663 at mx01.together.net>, on 09/03/97 
   at 11:17 PM, "Brian B. Riley"  said:

> So, looking at all this, what does it mean???? Are they going to have an
>amnesty period when I can run down to my local firehouse and turn in my
>PGP5 CDROM without risking going to jail? Will MIT turn over logs of
>everyone who ever d/l-ed PGP2 and we have four weeks to turn over every
>backup disk we ever made? If they do get this by us, and I decide to use
>their silly-assed encryption, do I get a ten year all expense paid
>vacation at the Allenwood Hilton if I send my bootlegged PGP message
>inside their encryption?

Well Freeh and the rest of his Gestapo are more than welcome to come and
pick-up all the crypto software I have solong as the are willing to
collect the several cases of lead I have also. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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wYo585nBJtCV3QXNrOPNQEhuU2dZtuqyTjJH2ysFdbYxw5cq1tRG8aNXWzBDTiJp
GYg7ChK5qB0VK3iT3IhThog1n/fEyEwRf3cdJYcEMv0NgO35jmFH6lkcqhqSknPH
b7h3j30JIsI=
=XFwC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 21:58:57 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:58:57 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199709040308.XAA30508@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 



At 8:08 PM -0700 9/3/97, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>On 9/3/97 8:30 PM, Lucky Green (shamrock at netcom.com)  passed this wisdom:
>
>>[Freeh]
>>There are a number of ways that that could be
>>implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum
>>is a feature implemented and designed by the
>>manufacturers of the products and services here that
>>will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful
>>decryption of the communications in transit or the
>>stored data.  That could be done in a mandatory
>>manner.  It could be done in an involuntary manner.
>>But the key is that we have the ability.
>>-
>
> ... hmmmm,  immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they
>plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to
>walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which
>needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and
>find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.

I urge extreme caution on pushing this 4th/5th/etc. angle about "due
process" and "search and seizure" and legal niceties. If Freeh's proposal
is passed, I'm sure the _trappings_ of due process and warrants and
whatnot, or at least a magistrate's signature, will be implemented.  Judges
will be found, maybe even special "Surveillance Courts," as with the FISUR
process. Building a case against Freeh's proposal on this basis is weak.

A much stronger basis for stopping the Freeh nonsense is to strongly assert
the First Amendment.  Dictating the form that speech must take--escrow--is
unconstitutional.

Even the weaker form of Freeh's suggestion, that key escrow capabilities be
forced into all Internet products, even if the use is "voluntary," seems to
lack constitutional support. Could the Federal Trade Commission force all
products to have such features? The Consumer Safety Products Commission?

I don't know where the authority for mandatory seat belts and  air bags is
claimed to come from, either. Or helmet laws in various states. Someone
else is welcome to spend time researching this. Personally, all such laws
are infringements on personal freedom, in my view. I half expect a case
will be made that key escrow is a "safety" feature. Freeh's invocation of
air bags may have been a clever signal.


--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From geeman at best.com  Wed Sep  3 22:08:47 1997
From: geeman at best.com (geeman at best.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:08:47 +0800
Subject: [PGP-USERS] Crypto-logic US$1 million Challenge
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970903213525.006c9764@best.com>



There was a Snake-oil FAQ floating around for quite a while that addressed
all this
in some detail.

This scheme/scam has circulated before, too although I forget the name of
the perpetrating company.

At 02:40 PM 9/3/97 -0400, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In <97090316550827/0002595870PK5EM at mcimail.com>, on 09/03/97 
>   at 11:55 AM, Jeffrey Gold <0002595870 at MCIMAIL.COM> said:
>
>>Although it's not PGP, I thought this might be of interest.
>>I've condensed a Wall Street Journal Article with info from
>>the web page http://www.ultimateprivacy.com
>
>>  A start-up company is offering a $1 million challenge. Crypto-
>>Logic Corp. of Austin, Texas, claims to have created an encryption 
>>system for electronic mail so foolproof that it can't be broken.  If
>>someone can  figure out a special encrypted e-mail message  within a
>>year, the company says it will pay a reward of $1 million.
>
>>  Cryptologists agree that the decades-old encryption method   that
>>Crypto-Logic is claiming to use -- called a "one-time pad" -- 
>>is theoretically unbreakable. Each "pad" has a set of uniquely 
>>random digital symbols that are coded to the actual message. 
>>The recipient uses the same symbols to decrypt the message. 
>>The pads are used only once.
>
>>  Of course, the problem with any one-time pad is the distribution
>>of multiple pads.  A new one is needed for each message.  Public-key
>>cryptography (used by PGP) addresses this issue.  It is not clear
>>how Crypto-Logic Corp. addresses the distribution issue.
>
>
>ROTFLMAO!!!!!
>
>What a sweet little scam they have going here. :)
>
>While there product cost $99, which is not unreasonable for a security
product of this nature, they charge $49 for the "OTP's" (I'll get to the
OTP's later)!!!
>
>Now they way they have this set-up is that for each person that you are
communicating with requires a separate "OTP". The program comes with 2
"OTP's" and additional "OTP's" can be purchased for $49. So say you have 10
people you wish to communicate with you are talking almost $500 out the
gate to get going!!! This is just silly.
>
>
>Now to "OTP's". These are the things that snake-oil salesmen's dreams are
made of. Here is how their sales pitch works (and i have seen many of them
over the years):
>
>
>1) OTP's are unbreakable
>2) We use an OTP
>3) Our program is unbreakable
>4) You should use our program
>
>I will address all three points of their sales pitch and show the flaws in
it.
>
>1) OTP's are unbreakable:
>
>  To understand how one can make this claim (and it is true) on needs to
understand what a OTP is and how it works.
>
>A OPT (One Time Pad) is just a file of random numbers. That's it, nothing
fancy here. To encrypt a message one takes the bits in the plaintext and an
equal amount of bits from the OTP and XOR them together. The result is just
another random file of bits. To get the plaintext back one takes the
"encrypted" files and Xor's it with the same bits used the first time.
>
>Quite simple but there is a catch:
>
>  Your OTP must but TRULY RANDOM!! If there are any patterns in your
"random" data you are dead in the water. The biggest flaw in products that
claim to use OTP's is they use what is called a PRNG (pseudo random number
generator). Unfortunately the data that PRNG's produce are not sufficiently
"random" for use in OTP's. It has long been accepted in the field of
cryptology that you *MUST* use a real world sample for random data, things
like measuring the time intervals between click on a Geiger counter
measuring background radiation.
>
>A second catch:
>
>  You must never, never reuse any of the bits from your OTP!!! As simple
as this seems (after all this is why they call it an One Time Pad) there
are programmers out there that fail to grasp this basic concept. Now AFAIK
there is no pad reuse with this program. That's where their revenue stream
is comming from charging you for the new pads!
>
>So if you use truly random data (no PRNG's) and you never reuse bits then
an OTP encrypted message is provably unbreakable.
>
>
>2) We use OTP's
>
>I have seen numerous claims by various "snake-oil" salesmen that their
program uses an OTP only too see that they are using a PRNG to generate
their "OTP". I even had one claim that it was ok to reuse his PRNG
generated pad.
>
>Now since the company provided no details on how they generate the OTP's
who knows what they are doing.
>
>3) Our program is unbreakable
>
>Well if they are dotting all their I's and crossing all their T's when it
comes to generating and using OTP's then yes the message is unbreakable.
>
>But wait their program does not generate the OTP's you must buy them from
the company!! This means that a 3rd party outside of you and the person you
are communicating with has a copy of the pad!!! This is a big no-no in
cryptology. Anyone who has access to the OTP can decrypt any message that
was encrypted using it. What type of security do they have on site? Who has
access to the OTP's?? How are they generated?? What are their policies if
the government requests access to these OTP's?? All questions left
unanswered by the company.
>
>I must say that I seriously question the on-site security of the OTP's
considering how the initial OTP's are sent to the customer, (drum roll
please), the just MAIL them!!!!
>
>This brings us to the third catch to using OTP's: How to exchange the pads.
>
>Before the advent of Public Key Encryption this was the most daunting task
in cryptology. How do you get the keys to the people who need them to
decrypt the message??? With OTP's or any form of cryptology where the same
key is used to encrypt and decrypt the message the user must find a
"secure" channel for exchanging the keys. This is no different than a key
to a house or a car, the same key is used to lock and unlock the door.
Anyone who has a copy of the key can unlock the door. Need less to say you
don't just send the key in the mail. Usually such exchanges are done in
person or if this is not practical a "trusted" courier is used to exchange
the key. Not very practical for every day use.
>
>
>4) You should use our program
>
>Consider the following:
>
>- -- Unknown methods used for generation Otp's
>- -- Customer unable to generate their own OTP's
>- -- Unknown "on-site" security
>- -- Otp's escrowed by company (they have a copy of your keys)
>- -- Additional cost for each new key
>- -- Obvious lack of security in mailing initial Otp's to customers
>- -- No solution to the key exchange problem
>- -- No source code for program
>
>I would not use this program nor would I recommend it to anyone else.
There are may other programs that provide overall better security than what
this program ever can or ever will provide.
>
>I will CC: the Cyberpunks & Coderpunks list as there may be others there
who can better expand on this issue.
>
>
>- -- 
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------
>William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
>Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
>
>Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
>PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
>OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html
            
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: 2.6.3a
>Charset: cp850
>Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
>
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>=yDMp
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>






From shamrock at netcom.com  Wed Sep  3 22:15:49 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:15:49 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
In-Reply-To: <19970903171900.47376@sequent.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903220104.006f2348@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 05:19 PM 9/3/97 +0200, Unicorn wrote:
>Hi Guys (F/M),
>
>I am seeing messages about the Dr.Dobbs Crypto CD-ROM not being received
>by persons inside the US, but right  now I wonder if this information is
>or will  be available,  in this  form, outside of  the US?

I predict that entire image file will be available for ftp within 48 hours
of release of the CDROM.


--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From tcmay at got.net  Wed Sep  3 22:53:12 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:53:12 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
In-Reply-To: <19970903171900.47376@sequent.com>
Message-ID: 



At 10:01 PM -0700 9/3/97, Lucky Green wrote:
>At 05:19 PM 9/3/97 +0200, Unicorn wrote:
>>Hi Guys (F/M),
>>
>>I am seeing messages about the Dr.Dobbs Crypto CD-ROM not being received
>>by persons inside the US, but right  now I wonder if this information is
>>or will  be available,  in this  form, outside of  the US?
>
>I predict that entire image file will be available for ftp within 48 hours
>of release of the CDROM.
>

Since when does it take 48 hours for a FedEx delivery to Europe?

(Not to mention a direct transmissio, except there the chances of detection
are actually greater.)


(Hey, maybe someone could _print out_ the crypto code in the CD-ROM, then
export the print out, then recruit a team in Europe to pretend to OCR it,
and so on. Then they could announce that the text had been "converted from
text back to bits" and all the legal mumbo jumbo will be copacetic. The OCR
charade is a pretty good legal defense.)

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Wed Sep  3 23:00:04 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:00:04 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow
Message-ID: <199709040540.HAA09266@basement.replay.com>



Tim May wrote:
> Even the weaker form of Freeh's suggestion, that key escrow capabilities be
> forced into all Internet products, even if the use is "voluntary," seems to
> lack constitutional support. Could the Federal Trade Commission force all
> products to have such features? The Consumer Safety Products Commission?
> 
> I don't know where the authority for mandatory seat belts and  air bags is
> claimed to come from, either. Or helmet laws in various states. 

  The 'authority' comes, as always, from power and money.
  The "Drive 55" mandate is a perfect example of the government stealing
the citizen's money, then giving it back in the form of highway funding,
with the condition that those states who don't give up their right to
decide their own state laws don't get any cash.
  The greedy fucks feeding at the government troughs want to get their
hands on that money _now_, because there is no telling who will be ahead
of them in at the trough by the time the Constitutional issues are
settled.

  The bottom line is that the federal government gets their authority by
virtue of armed robbery, bribery and illegal seizure.
  Who is going to stop them? They have the guns! When our elected
officials
in Congress delved into the INSLAW affair, the Department of Justice
told
them to "Fuck off." and refused to cooperate with those who represent
the
citizens. Congress's reaction was to say, "Yup. They're defying us."
  Ipso facto--Congress is not running the country. The LEA's are running
the country. Go figure...

TruthMonger # -23A(Sub.C)-009






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Wed Sep  3 23:13:32 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:13:32 +0800
Subject: Militias
Message-ID: <199709040549.HAA09983@basement.replay.com>



Tim May wrote:
> 
> I just watched an hour-long special on CBS, "The Birth of a Militia," about
> the Rocky Mountain Militia is southern Utah.
> The militia member who was arrested, tried, and convicted of illegally
> owning a gun, evading the police, and driving without a license, apparently
> committed no serious crimes, by my standards. He didn't rob, he didn't
> rape, he didn't kill.
> 
> As the Sheriff was quoted several times as saying, he "mouthed off." And
> apparently being a "skinhead" and a "militia member" is ipso facto proof of
> criminality. The Sheriff said he planned to get Johnny.

  I watched the show and couldn't figure out exactly what the 'crimes'
were supposed to consist of. I eventually got the impression that the
real 'crime' was "intent to have a bad attitude."
  My basic read is that they are going to fuck with those they don't
like until their sense of human dignity forces them to make a stand,
and then they will murder them and use the event as more evidence of
our need to be protected from 'unauthorized' nuts with guns.

  I don't know about you, but I would much rather get murdered by an
'authorized' nut with a gun, than an 'unauthorized' nut with a gun.
It seems so much more civilized, somehow.
  When militia members leave for their meetings, do their mothers
remind them to put on clean underwear, in case they get murdered by
law enforcement agents? This is what cypherpunks enquiring minds
really want to know.

TruthMonger






From blancw at cnw.com  Wed Sep  3 23:53:48 1997
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:53:48 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970903234934.006df9e4@cnw.com>



Tim May wrote:

>A much stronger basis for stopping the Freeh nonsense is to strongly assert
>the First Amendment.  Dictating the form that speech must take--escrow--is
>unconstitutional.
.......................................................

One would think that Freeh, Denning, et al, would know these things
already.  Or that one of their legal advisors would remind them of it.   

I also noticed in the news on TV tonight that there are Clinton &
Supporters, Inc. proposals being prepared for ensuring that stores actually
do require purchasers of cigarrettes to display an ID, so that minors are
prevented from smoking.   This is also contrary to the principles of being
left alone, but who among our protectors is watching over the boundary
lines, fighting back the infidels?   

Who cares about the Constitution any more?






From cag1465 at onestopshop.net  Thu Sep  4 15:15:26 1997
From: cag1465 at onestopshop.net (cag1465 at onestopshop.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:15:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Accept Major Credit Cards...Online Merchant Accounts!
Message-ID: <199709042215.PAA24984@cygnus.com>


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From shamrock at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 00:30:00 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:30:00 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199709040308.XAA30508@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903222635.007669e4@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 11:08 PM 9/3/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
> ... hmmmm,  immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they 
>plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to 
>walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which 
>needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and 
>find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.

Finding a judge to sign an order to decrypt the email of a suspected child
pornographer/drug dealer will take all of 30 minutes. I don't think a 30
minute delay will be of any consequence to the government's agenda. Not to
mention that Freeh lied to Congress when he claimed that they would always
use a court order. Even today, court orders are not always required for
wiretaps. This will be no different for future "mandatory" or "involuntary"
GAK.

[BTW, does anybody here have any idea why Freeh might stated that he
preferred "mandatory" GAK over "involutary" GAK? Just curious...]

Back to monkeywrenching,

--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From shamrock at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 00:30:12 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:30:12 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199709040308.XAA30508@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903223516.0076b344@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 08:54 PM 9/3/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>I don't know where the authority for mandatory seat belts and  air bags is
>claimed to come from, either. Or helmet laws in various states. Someone
>else is welcome to spend time researching this. Personally, all such laws
>are infringements on personal freedom, in my view. I half expect a case
>will be made that key escrow is a "safety" feature. Freeh's invocation of
>air bags may have been a clever signal.

I noticed that strange air bag analogy myself. Clearly, Freeh and his
puppet masters are trying to skew the discussion towards "public safety".
Of course, requiring GAK is more like requiring a remote kill switch in the
ignition of all new cars so cops can just type a license plate number into
their terminal to halt a fleeing car. [BTW, such kill switches will be
required before long. I trust we all know this].

Frankly, I don't care if they outlaw crypto. We'll just glue stego on top
of it. And Joe Sixpack couldn't care less. Nor do I care if Joe Sixpack
wants to be spanked by his wife or plungered by his government. It's his
choice.




--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From shamrock at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 00:30:19 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:30:19 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199709040143.DAA17878@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970903221748.0076891c@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 08:32 PM 9/3/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>By the way, the last time I was driving around the Greater Washington
>National Compound, there were signs in Virginia declaring that use of radar
>detectors was illegal.
>
>This sort of banning of certain technologies which "hinder law enforcement"
>is of course what we were talking about a few weeks ago, with the "for law
>enforcment use only" trends in the PRA.

I read in this morning's paper that in the wake of Diana's death, bills are
being proposed to require licensing for the use of high powered telescopic
lenses such as those used by celebrity photographers. Ignoring for a moment
that such an act would make physical confrontation with said photographers
even more likely, I note the similarity in language used to describe camera
lenses to language used to describe certain firearms. Soon we will hear
about the dangers of "assault lenses". The sheeple will eat it up.

As somebody once said on this list:
"The First Amendment was never meant to protect assault language or verbal
rape"...

BTW, just for the record, I believe that we live in a consumer society and
the People choose the government they want. The average person doesn't care
who thinks for them as long as they don't have to think for themselves and
can pretend to themselves that it was in fact they who did the thinking.

The People desire a master, not a revolution.


--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From vznuri at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 00:48:30 1997
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:48:30 +0800
Subject: on the social taboo/stigma
Message-ID: <199709040733.AAA16333@netcom12.netcom.com>




consider the recent events surrounding cigarettes. various laws
were passed for many decades that made them more difficult to 
obtain and sell. regulations increased. yet they have not
seen major effects in sales until relatively recently in history.
why is this?

because of the social taboo and stigma associated with them. 
this taboo and stigma only recently arose. and its efficacy
is attested to by the figures on the sales of cigarettes, which
have gone down considerably in the US. (yes I am aware of what
is happening in foreign markets-- please stay with me for a minute).
we have tobacco executives virtually being put on trial. their shame
is palpable.

what I would like to try to draw to your attention here to something
very powerful. it is the social taboo or stigma, and in some ways
it is the only long-lasting, enduring landmark of social 
consciousness. laws may come and go. people may obey or 
not follow laws. what is the
difference? I think it is clear that it is not taboo to break
some laws in the public's mind. (prohibition is one example).

laws can be viewed as an attempt to create a social taboo or
stigma via legislation. it is effective for the most part. but
it can be unreasonable and public opinion can diverge from the
laws.

what is the cpunk relevance? well, I am trying to point out that
taboos and stigmas are very powerful weapons. a government may
have physical weapons, but not use them because of international 
stigma. the reaction of other countries might be so great that
the "benefits" (a horrific term in this case) are not worth the
loss of accommodations given by other countries, which would
be retracted.

social stigmas/tabboos are very important in gauging the psyche
of a public. you can psychoanalyze the public at large by
determining what they consider taboo or stigmas. mass social
movements represent shifts in taboos and stigmas. consider
the sexual revolution for example. in some ways, the taboo
or stigma in a person's psyche are the root measure of their
behavior, not laws. if someone perceives there is no
taboo or stigma ("not getting caught" is related to this) there
is no deterrent.

===

here's the application. if cpunks wish to achieve certain goals,
one way is to try to create stigmas and taboos where none previously
existed, or tear down those that already exist that are obstacles
to the cpunk agenda. so, for example, a "stigma" about exporting
unapproved cryptography could be turned into a badge of honor. likewise,
we could create a "stigma" about working in the NSA.

this is the main them I want to nail in this letter.
many people are in jobs that some may consider ethically reprehensible.
they believe they have no choice. consider the tens of thousands
of very intelligent people (some of the most intelligent on the 
planet) that are *right*now* creating horrendous weapons of 
destruction in the name of "defense". they know in their hearts
that these weapons are stretching the concept of defense to the
"indefensible" so to speak. that is, they could only have 
offensive (in all senses of the word) applications.

moreover, even if they have defensive capabilities, they have
absolutely no way of ensuring their government would not misapply
them. anyone who thinks otherwise is pathetically naive. there
were famous scientists who developed the atom bomb who had
major turns of thought after they saw how it was applied. but
does anybody listen today? I encourage anyone working on their
ingenious defense research to get the slightest historical
clue about atom bomb development. how smart do you really think
you are, if what you are developing can be misused, and you
are merely a pawn in a big machine?

I am writing this letter to all those people who are *right*now*
channeling their own human energies into sinister applications. 
you might be working for the NSA. you might be working in the
defense industry. whereever, whatever. you have pangs of conscience
that you don't want to face. you can go a whole lifetime not
thinking about it. your superiors and everything in your environment
encourages you *not* to *think* about it. 

I am asking you to *think* about it. I am asking you to realize
that governments cannot go in the direction that they are not
supported. if tomorrow everyone who worked in the NSA said, 
"I am fed up, I don't have to take this job, they can intimidate
me but this is a free country, I have skills that are valuable
channelled elsewhere and not in constricting freedoms"-- the NSA would be
dead. you don't need laws or to create revolutions or governments
to get social change. in fact revolutions are typically intrinsically 
beyond laws, and new governments arise only when society's thoughts
change.

everything, *everything* that cpunks rail against is being held
up by other *people*. these people are not evil, they merely
think differently. many of them react to mass social pressure
and stigma. can the public successfully create new, effective
stigmas that pressure government to reform? it appears to me this
is already happening. I suggest we focuse not on laws or institutions,
but on the people holding them up, and their beliefs.

I suspect there are people such as I am alluding to on the cypherpunk list.
I think there are a lot of very talented programmers, for example,
working on applications of highly questionable moral value (such
as weapons of mass destruction). does anyone have any idea how
much tax money goes into so-called "defense" projects? what evils
have been perpetrated under the guise of "national security"?

I believe that the value of the cpunk list is that it has successfully
created some new taboos and stigmas (associated with spooks), 
and removed others (such as criticism of the government, etc.)

I think that we need to create some new stigmas and nail them 
down emphatically. such as, 
"know that what you are working on is going toward
a greater good" (i.e. a stigma or taboo associated with the
lack of this), not "keep your mouth shut and don't ask any
questions". consider a programmer union that had recommendations
to its members such as these. "I will not work on code that
can be misused for violence. I will not work on code that
does not have adequate safeguards against its use" etc.
do you know what all your friends and neighbors are doing?
can we make it so that its really *uncool* to be supporting
rotten institutions via one's labor, instead of having some
kind of warped charisma associated with being a "rocket scientist"?

to borrow an ominous phrase, I call on the oppressed workers of 
the world to unite. I call on you to discover your own power 
and conscience. I call on you to have a philosophy 
that you have thought out, and
to adhere to it. consider what you are applying *your* energy
to. and consider the possibility that even though you think you
have no choice, that is the lie that keeps you as a secure  
brick in the wall of oppression. all the rotten structures of
power would collapse in an instant if those who held them up
stopped doing so.

if nobody will work on his software, Big Brother cannot exist.







From shamrock at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 01:20:38 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:20:38 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export  ctrls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970903234934.006df9e4@cnw.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904010043.007359c0@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 11:51 PM 9/3/97 -0700, Blanc wrote:
>I also noticed in the news on TV tonight that there are Clinton &
>Supporters, Inc. proposals being prepared for ensuring that stores actually
>do require purchasers of cigarrettes to display an ID, so that minors are
>prevented from smoking.   This is also contrary to the principles of being
>left alone, but who among our protectors is watching over the boundary
>lines, fighting back the infidels?   

As signs in any liquor store have been informing tobacco customers for
months, new FDA regulations require stores to check the ID of any tobacco
customer under 25. This despite the fact that you are legally allowed to
purchase tobacco products at age 18. If the store fails to check the ID of
a person legally permitted to conduct the purchase but is under age 25, the
store faces hefty fines.

This is of course just another extension of the "requiring ID for
everything" long-term goal of the government. Tim recently nicely recapped
some of the transponder implant issues our society will soon face. "No
transponder, no shoes, no shirt, no service".

[To our international readers: many stores in the US have signs by their
door that read "No shoes, no shirt, no service"].


--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From blancw at cnw.com  Thu Sep  4 01:39:34 1997
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:39:34 +0800
Subject: Smoking and IDs
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970904013123.006e0204@cnw.com>



Lucky Green wrote:

>As signs in any liquor store have been informing tobacco customers for
>months, new FDA regulations require stores to check the ID of any tobacco
>customer under 25. This despite the fact that you are legally allowed to
>purchase tobacco products at age 18. If the store fails to check the ID of
>a person legally permitted to conduct the purchase but is under age 25, the
>store faces hefty fines.
........................................................

Thanks for providing more details on this, Lucky, I overlooked the fact
that not everyone on the list will understand the situation was referring
to.   Another odd thing:    I was talking to the clerk at a convenience
store about the ID sign next to the register, and she said that on the
other hand, there aren't any such requirements for the purchase of any of
the cigars which were on display on the counter.

Another odd thing is how popular cigars have become lately.  Last month I
bought a copy of "Cigar Aficionado" magazine to peruse, even though I don't
smoke, because it was so pretty :>) and spent quite some time looking at
their web site.   It is a curious matter that when one "vice" is squelched,
another grows in its place.   This magazine really emphasizes living "the
good life", and I discovered that there are places springing up all over
the U.S. (and I expect elsewhere) which are smoking clubs - people can
actually go there just to smoke their cigar, perhaps with a glass of
after-dinner liquor.    I thought this was a great idea, myself, because
here these people can be with others who enjoy the same activity, and
there's no one outside who can complain (not yet, anyway). 

I think sometimes it is not only a Truth, but a great & useful Means to an
End, that "living well is the best revenge".

Not sure how this will apply to transponder implants, though.   A subject
for late-night speculation.






From shamrock at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 01:46:05 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:46:05 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970903220104.006f2348@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904013353.0076a3d8@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 10:48 PM 9/3/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>Since when does it take 48 hours for a FedEx delivery to Europe?

Actually, some recent FedEx packages I sent to Europe took about that long.
Add   to that the overhead of going to the mailbox and putting it up for
ftp and 48 hours is cutting it pretty close.

>(Not to mention a direct transmissio, except there the chances of detection
>are actually greater.)

That depends. Some printed matter I sent to Europe not too long ago arrived
with a tag stating that diversion to certain countries would be in
violation of US export laws. I am not 100% certain, but I do not recall
that tag being on the box when it was shipped from the mailbox place. Which
suggests that somebody along the way opened the package and inspected its
contents.  When asking FedEx about this, the clerk assured me that it was
routine for US customs to inspect outgoing packages. The clerk seemed quite
confused that I was unaware of this fact.

I strongly suspect that if some Cyphercriminals were to aid in exporting
the information contained on that CDROM, they would use electronic means. I
may be wrong.

OK, I'll offer a prize: $10 in Ecash to the person that best predicts the
time it will take to export the entire contents of the Dr. Dobbs crypto CD.
The time span of interest is the average of the time during which the first
three US purchasers stating they received the CD and the time its contents
are received by a European or Asian crypto archive as determined by its
curator. If no US purchasers provide me with the time at which they
received their CD, I will use the time at which I received my CD. I am the
final judge of the contest.

Entries go to me, not to the list.


--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Thu Sep  4 01:57:45 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:57:45 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709040837.KAA23572@basement.replay.com>



Lucky Green wrote:
 
> I read in this morning's paper that in the wake of Diana's death, bills are
> being proposed to require licensing for the use of high powered telescopic
> lenses such as those used by celebrity photographers. Ignoring for a moment
> that such an act would make physical confrontation with said photographers
> even more likely, I note the similarity in language used to describe camera
> lenses to language used to describe certain firearms. Soon we will hear
> about the dangers of "assault lenses". The sheeple will eat it up.

  For some reason this made me think of the thread containing light-bulb
jokes, and some warped wit saying,
  "Sure, light bulb jokes are funny, until someone burns a retina..."

  Though I laughed my ass off, at the time, have things really begun to
deteriorate so rapidly that I am justified in now wondering if there
will be a "Light Bulb Joke Amendment" to the "Telescopic Lens
Registration"
legislation?

TruthMonger






From dl at dev.null  Thu Sep  4 02:59:14 1997
From: dl at dev.null (Dead Lucky)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:59:14 +0800
Subject: We have a WINNER!!!
Message-ID: <340E82AD.3723@dev.null>



Dead Lucky
                           ----------
                       AP Lotto Enterprises
           (A Subdivision of the Reformatory Party of Canada)

                        Unlucky in Life?
                     Try your luck at Death!
  If you can correctly predict the date and time of death of others
 then you can win large prizes payable in untaxable, untraceable eca$h.
                                  ----------

Congratulations to the anonymous entity who correctly predicted the date 
of the death of Princess Diana.
	QEII - Come on down!
Just send us the confirmation number you received at the time of your
entry, along with instructions for forwarding your ecaSh prize.

http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn/AP/AP.htm
Remember: "You can't win if someone doesn't pay."

NOTICE: We regret that we cannot take any more bets on the death of
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   Alberta, who won this month's free AP T-shirt with his suggestion 
   that there should be a bonus prize for anyone who correctly predicts
   the date of death of any politician whose body is found with a note
   attached which says,
   "I think Congress/Parliament needs each of us to send ten copies of
    this back to them."






From Michael.Johnson at mejl.com  Thu Sep  4 04:06:30 1997
From: Michael.Johnson at mejl.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:06:30 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
In-Reply-To: <19970903171900.47376@sequent.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970904125232.00997d60@localhost>



Lucky Green wrote:
>At 05:19 PM 9/3/97 +0200, Unicorn wrote:
>>I am seeing messages about the Dr.Dobbs Crypto CD-ROM not being received
>>by persons inside the US, but right  now I wonder if this information is
>>or will  be available,  in this  form, outside of  the US?
>
>I predict that entire image file will be available for ftp within 48 hours
>of release of the CDROM.

For anonymous ftp? You know, it's copyrighted stuff we're talking about. I
would expect it to appear on the pirate CD market before you see it on any
public ftp servers.


Mike.






From declan at pathfinder.com  Thu Sep  4 05:28:08 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:28:08 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Freeh did not mention banning existing programs. He did, however, talk
about restricting what was distributed, sold, and imported.

Even so, it only takes one intrepid staffer to add a word to the bill that
would include an "or possessed" clause in it. A "per se" rule against
crypto!

-Declan


On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Tim May wrote:

> As I understand what Freeh said, not even he is talking about banning
> existing programs. Rather, he's talking about requiring the "capability" be
> added to Internet programs (presumably browsers, mail programs, etc.). It's
> obvious that one could use an old word processor, editor, PGP, etc., and
> then paste the text into the Freeh-approved Internet program. What would
> the status be of this?
> 
> (In other words, it would be a truly draconian move to try to ban all
> encrypted messages.)






From Jim at Famailcrt.com  Thu Sep  4 20:43:32 1997
From: Jim at Famailcrt.com (Jim at Famailcrt.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FREE LINK LISTING
Message-ID: <199709050342.XAA19131@marconi.concentric.net>


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From brianbr at together.net  Thu Sep  4 05:53:51 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:53:51 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709041247.IAA03206@mx02.together.net>



On 9/4/97 12:51 AM, Tim May (tcmay at got.net)  passed this wisdom:

>At 8:28 PM -0700 9/3/97, Sean Roach wrote:
>>At 03:43 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>>...
>>>>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being
>>>>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime.
>>>
>>>And I'll give my kids a can of spray paint and a ladder. Maybe I'll offer
>>>bonus prizes if they can figure out an inventive, undetectable way to 
disable
>>>the fucker.
>>...
>>In Altus, it is illegal to sell spray paint to persons under the age of 18.
>>That makes two violations of their rights that I know of.
>>The curfue which was enacted a couple years ago being the first.
>>All because the local politicians are fully aware that they are too young to
>>vote.
>
>In my community, it is even illegal to buy spray paints and give them or
>make them available to those under some age (18 or 21...I don't know).
>
>I like my solution a lot better: anyone can buy the fucking spray paint,
>but taggers are shot down by those whose property they're trespassing on.
>
>Seems consistent with personal freedom and responsibility.

 I don't know if the law is still on the books, but when I was an 
undergrad at Univ of Penn in the 60's you could not buy a water 
pistol/squirtgun of any kind, because there had been some incidents where 
people were squirted in the face with ammonia bu a couple of miscreants, 
so the city council took it upon themselves to 'protect' us all!


Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
      For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
  "The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets!"







From brianbr at together.net  Thu Sep  4 05:59:57 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:59:57 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709041247.IAA03203@mx02.together.net>



On 9/4/97 1:17 AM, Lucky Green (shamrock at netcom.com)  passed this wisdom:

>BTW, just for the record, I believe that we live in a consumer society and
>the People choose the government they want. The average person doesn't care
>who thinks for them as long as they don't have to think for themselves and
>can pretend to themselves that it was in fact they who did the thinking.

 .. among other things, I teach school. Mostly one on one tutoring and 
occasional Calculus or Physics fill-in ... (nice when you already have a 
pension to be able to work leisurely and play with your computer!) I am 
in the process of rereading "Fahrenheit 451" - the recent printing  of 
this in paperback features a Marquis that says somethig like "Now, more 
relevant than ever" - as much as I hate having someone else tell me what 
to think ... they certainly seem to be right. It has been over twenty 
years since I read it and now ... it surely seems to be right on the path 
mentioned above and then some ... William Lederer also had it right years 
ago when he penned "A Nation of Sheep"


Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
       For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
 "...Those of you who turned your swords into plowshares will soon
  find yourselves under the yokes of those of us who kept our swords..." 
      -- author unknown







From amp at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 06:59:43 1997
From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:59:43 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199709040308.XAA30508@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 



> 
> I noticed that strange air bag analogy myself. Clearly, Freeh and his
> puppet masters are trying to skew the discussion towards "public safety".
> Of course, requiring GAK is more like requiring a remote kill switch in 
the
> ignition of all new cars so cops can just type a license plate number 
into
> their terminal to halt a fleeing car. [BTW, such kill switches will be
> required before long. I trust we all know this].

Already implemented actually. All modern automobiles have a rather 
respectable amount of computing power that is vulnerable to directed radio 
frequency weapons, whose effect to microelectronics is similar to an 
electromatic pulse. =This= is what is driving the push to get older 
vehicles off the road, not environmentalist's arguments about 'global 
warming'.

> Frankly, I don't care if they outlaw crypto. We'll just glue stego on top
> of it. And Joe Sixpack couldn't care less. Nor do I care if Joe Sixpack
> wants to be spanked by his wife or plungered by his government. It's his
> choice.


------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp at pobox.com
Date: 09/04/97
Time: 08:43:59
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Message-ID: 



Lucky, 

I think your observation below is an excellent illustration of why support 
or opposition to GAK must be a binary decision. Either you are for free 
speech, or you are not. There is no middle ground because middle ground 
will not satisfy a feral government. They will eventually demand full, 
immediate access to cleartext of all encrypted message, regardless of any 
public statements meant to appease opposition to incrementalist steps, 
because without it, they essentially have nothing. 

It is worth noting that when you look behind the curtain, you see a feral 
government that does not believe you have the right to private thoughts.



> Sometimes these guys can still surprise even me. That statement below is 
> about as blatant as it gets:
> 
> [Freeh]
> There are a number of ways that that could be
> implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum
> is a feature implemented and designed by the
> manufacturers of the products and services here that
> will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful
> decryption of the communications in transit or the
> stored data.  That could be done in a mandatory
> manner.  It could be done in an involuntary manner.
> But the key is that we have the ability.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight: they need *as a minimum* instant access to all 
> cleartext. So what is the "more than minimum" they truly desire?
> 
> And the two alternatives Freeh proposes to obtain this *minimum* are 
> either "mandatory" or "involuntary". What a choice!
> 
> --Lucky
> 

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp at pobox.com
Date: 09/04/97
Time: 08:33:41
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Message-ID: 



The article says:

   September 4, 1997
   Encryption Tops Wide-Ranging Net Agenda in Congress
   By JERI CLAUSING

   WASHINGTON -- As Congress returns from its summer break this week, it
   faces a host of legislative initiatives that could shape the future of
   online privacy, commerce and jurisdiction.

   Topping the agenda is encryption, an issue that has pitted President
   Clinton and his top crime fighters against virtually everybody else.

I think that's basically right. Who else (besides perhaps local and state
"crime fighters," the spooks, and some key escrow-happy businesses) 
supports this policy?

-Declan


On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, John Young wrote:

> The on-line NYT's claim today that everyone except the 
> administration is opposed to its crypto policy is daring
> hyperbole. What's your take on that?
> 
>   http://jya.com/crypto-tops.htm
> 
> 






From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Sep  4 07:03:37 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:03:37 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970904132738.0071dd00@pop.pipeline.com>



The on-line NYT's claim today that everyone except the 
administration is opposed to its crypto policy is daring
hyperbole. What's your take on that?

  http://jya.com/crypto-tops.htm






From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Thu Sep  4 07:05:38 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:05:38 +0800
Subject: U.S. Prison Labor
Message-ID: 



Does anyone have pointers to information/details about U.S. prison
inmates being used as slave labour for international corporations?

Thanx






From stonedog at ns1.net-gate.com  Thu Sep  4 07:06:27 1997
From: stonedog at ns1.net-gate.com (stonedog at ns1.net-gate.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:06:27 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Interesting. In NJ, where I have had the misfortune of living, "being able
to face your accuser" means that if the cop doesn't show you have to
reschedule and keep rescheduling until he _does_ show. For this reason, I
had assumed that the "no cop, no case" clause was simply hopeful urban
legend.

I tend to be cynical, here in NJ, where I have to pass through a police
roadblock every day on my way to work, and a different one every evening.
Literally. Every day. In less than a mile of State Route 73, if that ever
helps anyone.

If nothing else, we live in a "traffic police state".

-stonedog


On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Nate Sammons wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Chip Mefford wrote:
> > Nate wrote;
> > 
> > Isn't there a wierd clause about being able to face your accuser??? Yeah, I
> > know, I live in a fantasy world.
> > 
> > luv
> > chipper
> > 
> 
> Yes... in CO you can take them to court, and if the cop doesn't show up, you
> get off free.  I dunno about VA (just moved here 2 months ago).
> 
> In CO, you're supposed to be able to ask the cop if you can see the radar
> gun that clocked you, and if it's been cleared or the cop won't show it to
> you, you cannot be ticketed.  By law, the cop *must* have a visual estimate
> of your speed, and a clocked speed on a gun of some kind (a friend of mine is
> a Sheriff in southern CO), but they apparently don't tell that to anyone.
> 
> -nate
> 






From E.J.Koops at kub.nl  Thu Sep  4 07:10:48 1997
From: E.J.Koops at kub.nl (Bert-Jaap Koops)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:10:48 +0800
Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated
Message-ID: <698B8E62567@frw3.kub.nl>



I have just updated my survey of existing and envisaged cryptography
laws and regulations. See the Crypto Law Survey at
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm

This update includes:
-update on Australia (Walsh recommendations), Denmark (report by Expert
Committee), France (decree deemed imminent), Sweden (Inspection for strategic 
goods), US (Bernstein decision, Junger amended complaint) 
-change on Singapore (unclear availability domestic crypto) 
-URL added to Sweden (export law)
-FAQ added 
-lay-out restyled 

Besides, I have added to my homepage pages on my research 
(crypto & crime) and on key recovery and PKIs. I've also added a 
collection of links on these areas. See:
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/research.htm

Comments are as always welcomed.

Kind regards,
Bert-Jaap

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bert-Jaap Koops                         tel     +31 13 466 8101
Center for Law, Administration and      facs    +31 13 466 8149
Informatization, Tilburg University     e-mail  E.J.Koops at kub.nl
                  --------------------------------------------------
Postbus 90153    |  This world's just mad enough to have been made  |
5000 LE Tilburg  |    by the Being his beings into being prayed.    |
The Netherlands  |                (Howard Nemerov)                  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/bertjaap.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------






From amp at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 07:27:21 1997
From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:27:21 +0800
Subject: We have a WINNER!!!
In-Reply-To: <340E82AD.3723@dev.null>
Message-ID: 





------------------------
  From: Dead Lucky 

  Subject: We have a WINNER!!! 
  Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 03:43:09 -0600 
  To: cypherpunks at toad.com


> Dead Lucky
>                            ----------
>                        AP Lotto Enterprises
>            (A Subdivision of the Reformatory Party of Canada)
> 
>                         Unlucky in Life?
>                      Try your luck at Death!
>   If you can correctly predict the date and time of death of others
>  then you can win large prizes payable in untaxable, untraceable eca$h.
>                                   ----------

too good. saved for those clueful enough to understand the real humor of 
the post.

excellent spoof DL whoever you are.

My question, which is moderately relavant to the list, is exactly where one 
can obtain "untaxable, untraceable eca$h" From what I understand, we don't 
quite have that yet. Maybe I missed something.



---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp at pobox.com
Date: 09/04/97
Time: 09:04:15
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Message-ID: 



That Subject: line should have been, of course, that airbags and crypto
controls both hurt the public. --Declan






From declan at well.com  Thu Sep  4 08:06:45 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:06:45 +0800
Subject: Comparing encryption to airbags: both hurt the public
Message-ID: 





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: fight-censorship at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Comparing encryption to airbags: both hurt the public



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:48:53 -0400
From: Julie DeFalco 
To: declan at well.com
Subject: Airbags

Actually, the similarity between airbags and encryption is a good
comparison.  The public will be hurt by encryption controls, just as the
public has been hurt by airbags.

A few facts: Airbags were promoted by Joan Claybrook in the 1970s and 1980s
as a wonderful technology which worked for everybody from large males to
little children.  She claimed that they would save thousands and thousands
of lives each year, and that they would work for unbelted occupants.
Claybrook even pressured the manufacturers to use the technologies which she
now condemns today (don't get me started on Claybrook's mendacity on the
airbag issue.  She is a flat-out liar).

Well, while airbags have indeed saved some people who otherwise would have
died, they have not worked nearly as well as promised.  They specifically
hurt the weakest people in our society -- small children, short women, and
the elderly. They add about six hundred dollars to the price of new cars,
which encourages poorer people to keep older, possibly less safe cars
longer.  Now Claybrook even claims that airbags would work better if people
weren't "out of position" -- i.e. if they were wearing seatbelts, even
though the entire point of airbags was to provide "passive restraints"
because people didn't wear seatbelts.

Encryption controls will, like airbags, be far more dangerous to the public
than currently promoted.  And once given the power, it will be pretty
difficult, if not impossible, to take it away from government agencies.
Even with airbags documented as killing people, the government won't let us
have the choice whether to have them in the car at all.  The biggest
concession the government will make is allowing car companies to include an
on-off switch. This is why CEI will soon publish directions on our website
on how to dismantle your own airbags (well, as soon as we square away the
legal stuff).

Ciao! Julie
________________________________

Julie DeFalco
Policy Analyst
Competitive Enterprise Institute
1001 Connecticut Ave., NW
Suite 1250
Washington, DC 20036
(202) 331-1010
Fax: (202) 331-0640
http://www.cei.org








From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Thu Sep  4 08:13:05 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:13:05 +0800
Subject: NEWS: Re: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709041503.LAA23136@www.video-collage.com>



At 10:17 PM 9/3/97 -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
...
>BTW, just for the record, I believe that we live in a consumer society and
>the People choose the government they want. The average person doesn't care
>who thinks for them as long as they don't have to think for themselves and
>can pretend to themselves that it was in fact they who did the thinking.
>
>The People desire a master, not a revolution.
...
Excerpt from the not so distant future.
The FBI, NSA, and all local fire departments merged today in an unexpected
congressional action.  This merger was supported highly by the good populus
of our great nation as it makes it easier for the authorities to keep tabs
on those thinkers that keep stirring the people up.  Various professors were
unavailable for comment.
Said one congressman.  "We needed this merger and throwing in the fire
departments seemed a good idea since everyone knows that all buildings are
now fireproofed.  We feel that the firemen's experience with containing the
blazes will do well for creating controlled fires with which to destroy
contraband.  It is also noted that the water trucks that they use can
readily be converted to carry kerosine.
First on the list to be destroyed is every copy of the constitution, which
has caused too much grief of late.  Everyone has a 14 day leneniency in
which to turn in their copies.  Please remember that all media is included
including, but not limited to, CD-ROM's with the terrible screed, pages in
encyclopedias with the infamous words, and handwritten copies.






From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Thu Sep  4 08:24:36 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:24:36 +0800
Subject: Cars Re: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow
Message-ID: <199709041514.LAA23851@www.video-collage.com>



At 08:43 AM 9/4/97 -0500, amp wrote:
>
>> 
>> I noticed that strange air bag analogy myself. Clearly, Freeh and his
>> puppet masters are trying to skew the discussion towards "public safety".
>> Of course, requiring GAK is more like requiring a remote kill switch in 
>the
>> ignition of all new cars so cops can just type a license plate number 
>into
>> their terminal to halt a fleeing car. [BTW, such kill switches will be
>> required before long. I trust we all know this].
>
>Already implemented actually. All modern automobiles have a rather 
>respectable amount of computing power that is vulnerable to directed radio 
>frequency weapons, whose effect to microelectronics is similar to an 
>electromatic pulse. =This= is what is driving the push to get older 
>vehicles off the road, not environmentalist's arguments about 'global 
>warming'.

Actually, the current trick is to launch a little rocket-powered cart with
some form of electronic measure under the fleeing car from behind.  It
fizzles the electronics pretty well on contact with the bottom of the
oilpan.  Anyone know if one of those protectors that you can get for your
oil pan would deflect this if it were mounted on rubber washers with teflon
screws?






From tcmay at got.net  Thu Sep  4 08:27:30 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:27:30 +0800
Subject: Freeh is Marked for Deletion
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970904132738.0071dd00@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



At 6:43 AM -0700 9/4/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>The article says:
>
>   September 4, 1997
>   Encryption Tops Wide-Ranging Net Agenda in Congress
>   By JERI CLAUSING
>
>   WASHINGTON -- As Congress returns from its summer break this week, it
>   faces a host of legislative initiatives that could shape the future of
>   online privacy, commerce and jurisdiction.
>
>   Topping the agenda is encryption, an issue that has pitted President
>   Clinton and his top crime fighters against virtually everybody else.
>
>I think that's basically right. Who else (besides perhaps local and state
>"crime fighters," the spooks, and some key escrow-happy businesses)
>supports this policy?

Who supports this policy? All those who count in this democratic world:
NSA, FBI, NIST, DEA, FinCEN. BND, Mossad, GCHQ, DGSE, Annam, DIA, Chobetsu,
.....


We're in a state of war with these war criminals.

Freeh must be removed by any means necessary. His calling for mandatory (or
involuntary) key escrow marks him as unworthy of continued tenure. He is
marked for deletion.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From frissell at panix.com  Thu Sep  4 08:28:11 1997
From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:28:11 +0800
Subject: Smoking and IDs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970904013123.006e0204@cnw.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904105958.03651d9c@panix.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:32 AM 9/4/97 -0700, Blanc wrote:
>Lucky Green wrote:
>
>>As signs in any liquor store have been informing tobacco customers for
>>months, new FDA regulations require stores to check the ID of any tobacco
>>customer under 25. This despite the fact that you are legally allowed to

The FDA rules that took effect last February (since when did the FDA gain 
authority over 7-11?) say that anyone who "appears to be under 27 years of 
age" has to be carded.  

>>purchase tobacco products at age 18. If the store fails to check the ID of
>>a person legally permitted to conduct the purchase but is under age 25, the
>>store faces hefty fines.
>........................................................
>
>Another odd thing is how popular cigars have become lately.  Last month I
>bought a copy of "Cigar Aficionado" magazine to peruse, even though I don't
>smoke, because it was so pretty :>) and spent quite some time looking at
>their web site.   It is a curious matter that when one "vice" is squelched,
>another grows in its place.   This magazine really emphasizes living "the
>good life", and I discovered that there are places springing up all over
>the U.S. (and I expect elsewhere) which are smoking clubs - people can
>actually go there just to smoke their cigar, perhaps with a glass of
>after-dinner liquor.    I thought this was a great idea, myself, because
>here these people can be with others who enjoy the same activity, and
>there's no one outside who can complain (not yet, anyway). 

Cigars are not covered by the recent Tobacco Agreement either.  Nor are 
foreign or "boutique" cigarette brands.  Business opportunity?  

>I think sometimes it is not only a Truth, but a great & useful Means to an
>End, that "living well is the best revenge".

Even cigarette smoking is having a bit of a revival in movies and among the 
young.  After all, in a world which has abolished sin it is a genuine 
government-certified sin.

Evita Rodham Clinton wrote a column attacking Julia Roberts for smoking in 
"My Best Friend's Wedding."  When asked about the attack during a publicity 
appearance for "Conspiracy Theory,"  Mel Gibson defended his co-star by 
saying "I'll stop smoking when they stop lying."

DCF


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From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Thu Sep  4 08:32:30 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:32:30 +0800
Subject: Di Privacy, Die / Was: Death of Privacy
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

TruthMonger wrote:
>   Notice that the press reports that the two little princes want to 
> walk behind the casket. Is it a 'coincidence' that the two innocent
> victims who are now under the thumb of the monarchist spin-doctors
> are going to be front and center in the coverup of their mother's 
> murder? 
>   Why are the thousands of death threats against Prince Charles if he
> tries to use the funeral to redeem his image *not* news?

It seems likely that Something Is Afoot.  Let's not assume that it is
centered on preserving Charles Windsor's shot at the throne.

Most likely those Shadowy People who preserve social order have been
concerned about the stability of the Monarchy and are now taking steps
to preserve it.

A commonly perceived problem with monarchy is the strict rules of
inheritance.  From time to time a person totally unsuited to the job
pops up.  Not all societies in all of history have found this problem
insurmountable.  (Examples: The Man in the Iron Mask, or the peculiar
deaths of Queen Hatshepsut's older brothers, or the death of Peter the
Great's only son, etc.)

Diana, obviously, was unsuited to the job and did not seem to
understand it.  R.I.P.

Diana, for all the trouble she caused, did manage to arouse interest
in the Monarchy.  Her death has caused millions of people in Britain
and elsewhere to become deeply emotionally involved with the Monarchy.
This emotional capital is far better than the lassitude which preceded
her.  While many perceptions of the Royal Family are not positive,
this can be easily transformed into adulation of the Monarchy using
the vehicle of Diana's sons.

Charles is no prize.  He's managed to muff an easy job.  It is
possible that the Monarchy would not survive his accession to the
throne.

Look for the death of Charles, probably before the Queen dies.  An
accident would do it, but a "suicide" would add some spice, arouse
sympathy, and be less suspicious.  (Two fatal accidents would be
extremely unlikely, whereas the odds of a suicide under these
circumstances cannot be calculated.)  A "lone nut" with a gun would
also do the trick, although it's getting old.

This would pave the way for a smooth handoff of power from the well
regarded Queen to one of Diana's well regarded sons.  Order will have
been restored.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html
"I AM a number!  I am a free man!"

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=0xyT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----








From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Thu Sep  4 08:32:43 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:32:43 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Declan McCullagh wrote:
> All encryption products sold or distributed in the U.S.
> must have a key escrow backdoor "like an airbag in a car,"
> law enforcement agents advised a Senate panel this
> afternoon.

Encryption is an airbag for accidents of government.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html
"I AM a number!  I am a free man!"


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From JonWienk at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 08:32:47 1997
From: JonWienk at ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:32:47 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <199709041247.IAA03203@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970904081607.00712e4c@popd.netcruiser>



At 08:47 AM 9/4/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>On 9/4/97 1:17 AM, Lucky Green (shamrock at netcom.com)  passed this wisdom:
>
>>BTW, just for the record, I believe that we live in a consumer society and
>>the People choose the government they want. The average person doesn't care
>>who thinks for them as long as they don't have to think for themselves and
>>can pretend to themselves that it was in fact they who did the thinking.
>
> .. among other things, I teach school. Mostly one on one tutoring and 
>occasional Calculus or Physics fill-in ... (nice when you already have a 
>pension to be able to work leisurely and play with your computer!) I am 
>in the process of rereading "Fahrenheit 451" - the recent printing  of 
>this in paperback features a Marquis that says somethig like "Now, more 
>relevant than ever" - as much as I hate having someone else tell me what 
>to think ... they certainly seem to be right. It has been over twenty 
>years since I read it and now ... it surely seems to be right on the path 
>mentioned above and then some ... William Lederer also had it right years 
>ago when he penned "A Nation of Sheep"

For another good read, try "The Truth Machine", by James L. Halperin.  It's
about a guy who invents Big Brother (a machine that can with 100% accuracy,
detect whether you are lying).  It's kind of scary, because Big Brother (in
the book) brings an end to war, world government, and general Utopia.

Jonathan Wienke

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed" is too hard to understand? (From 2nd Amendment, U.S. Constitution)

When everyone is armed, criminals fear everyone, not just the police.

PGP 2.6.2 RSA Key Fingerprint: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
DSS/D-H Key Fingerprint: 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC
Public keys available at pgpkeys.mit.edu. PGP encrypted e-mail preferred.

US/Canadian Windows 95/NT or Mac users:
Get Eudora Light + PGP 5.0 for free at http://www.eudora.com/eudoralight/
Get PGP 5.0 for free at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pgp-form.html

Other PGP 5.0 sources:
http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/
http://www.heise.de/ct/pgpCA/download.shtml
ftp://ftp.pca.dfn.de/pub/pgp/V5.0/
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/pc/win95/pgp
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/mac/pgp
http://www.shopmiami.com/utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/pgp/pgp50/win/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: <199709041526.KAA22187@mailhub.amaranth.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.2.32.19970903222635.007669e4 at netcom10.netcom.com>, on 09/03/97 
   at 10:26 PM, Lucky Green  said:

>At 11:08 PM 9/3/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>> ... hmmmm,  immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they 
>>plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to 
>>walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which 
>>needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and 
>>find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.

>Finding a judge to sign an order to decrypt the email of a suspected
>child pornographer/drug dealer will take all of 30 minutes. I don't think
>a 30 minute delay will be of any consequence to the government's agenda.
>Not to mention that Freeh lied to Congress when he claimed that they
>would always use a court order. Even today, court orders are not always
>required for wiretaps. This will be no different for future "mandatory"
>or "involuntary" GAK.

>[BTW, does anybody here have any idea why Freeh might stated that he
>preferred "mandatory" GAK over "involutary" GAK? Just curious...]

Well I am not really worried about the "court approved" wiretaps as these
are only a small fraction of all surveillance currently being done by the
Government on it's citizens.

A much more worrisome issue is that of the FBI,CIA,NSA,et al having the
ability of driftnet fishing of communication. Once Big Brother takes an
interest in you its all over but the crying. Even if they can't get you on
what they want they will get you on something else. With current system we
are all felons under numerous laws (yes even you Kent) some are just less
aware of the fact than others.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From frissell at panix.com  Thu Sep  4 09:26:48 1997
From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:26:48 +0800
Subject: Krispin Preaches Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <03534be19006e0aa4949847a944e6017@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904113742.0366812c@panix.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:39 AM 8/29/97 -0700, Kent Crispin wrote:
>I have known since I was a grasshopper that people trying to effect
>change have a vested interest in making current reality look bad. 
>People entrenched in the power structure, on the other hand, have a
>vested interest in making current reality look good.  
>
>When change doesn't happen, or especially when it goes in a direction
>undesired by the revolutionaries, but liked by the citizens, the
>effort to make current reality look bad intensifies.  When change
>irrevocably passes to an unwanted state, and the revolutionaries
>"lose", a residue of Bitter Old Revolutionary Extremists (BOREs)
>results.  These toothless old tigers, clinging to their youthful
>dreams, rage at a reality that passed them by.  Snarling and
>perpetually misunderstood, they wither and waste away, Cheshire cat
>evil grimace postcripts to history. 

Course the analysis fails when faced with those who think things are good and 
getting better in revolutionary ways disliked by the "powers that be".

None of us have had time to become Bitter Old Revolutionary Extremists yet.  
Tim and I am members of the same birth cohort.  He tends towards depression 
and I tend towards optimism but both of us have seen quite a few changes over 
the years and neither of us are in the position of the American Marxists of 
the 1930s or 1960s New Left radicals who saw their dreams die.

Market liberalism is ascendant.  And it is still in its early period of 
ascendancy.  The Economist observed earlier this year that "We are all 
liberals now".  Pointing out that illiberal philosophies had shuffled off the 
world stage.

Note that "socialism" started circa 1850, rose steadily until the middle of 
this century, and then crashed and burned.  "Red Tony" in the UK is showing 
himself to be slightly to the right of John Boy Major as the students, 
aliens, and pro-inflationists of the UK have recently discovered.

Market Earth continues to take names and kick ass worldwide.  I felt much 
more depressed about the possibilities of a society built on voluntary 
interaction 30, 20, or 10 years ago than I do now.

The fact is that change is continuing and accelerating because people have 
the means to change their own lives.  Since "revolution" which originates 
from the independent and unled actions of millions of people cannot easily be 
suppressed, traditional political analysis fails.

Conquering an "anarchy" is hard enough because of the lack of anyone to 
surrender.  Conquering an "anarchy" that is springing up all around you at 
the "speed of business" or in "net time" is even harder.  The only tactical 
option that would work for our rulers in the current political situation is 
to "nuke us back to the stone age" so that they could regain their 
traditional force ratios.

If the people are not deprived of the wealth and physical powers that they 
now possess (at least in the OECD countries), they are no longer controlled 
in a real sense.  Nominal controls exist but they are weak and ineffective.  
If you doubt this, ask any cop.

DCF

Needed:  A lion untamer.  The cage has been removed but the lion continues to 
pace back and forth over his old ground out of habit.  We need a lion untamer 
who can convince the lion that he's no longer in a cage.





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From anon at anon.efga.org  Thu Sep  4 09:34:04 1997
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:34:04 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <2bb492db8556543171a4af60b2cea4ed@anon.efga.org>





> Yes, rest assured that Big Brother is watching. Three CopBots have been
> deployed around the county to take pictures of vehicles exiting
> intersections after the light has turned red. These CopBots are a great
> boon to our prosperity and security as they free up the huminoid Cops from
> traffic duties so that they can better spend their time toilet plunger
> kicking.

Yes, they love these in Germany too. Ways to combat:

1) Wax your license plate, especially the front one.

2) When you find one of these unattended critters along the road, wave
your hand in front of it at amazing speeds until it runs out of film.
(Ensure middle finger is extended.)

3) Wave a plunger in front of it at amazing speeds. Give the cops
tens of alternating shots of your extended finger and plungers.

4) Assault the machine with a plunger. (Only if really mad.)

-- FedPlunger








From frantz at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 09:36:42 1997
From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:36:42 +0800
Subject: Smoking and IDs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970904013123.006e0204@cnw.com>
Message-ID: 



At 1:32 AM -0700 9/4/97, Blanc wrote:
>Another odd thing is how popular cigars have become lately.  Last month I
>bought a copy of "Cigar Aficionado" magazine to peruse, even though I don't
>smoke, because it was so pretty :>) and spent quite some time looking at
>their web site.   It is a curious matter that when one "vice" is squelched,
>another grows in its place.   This magazine really emphasizes living "the
>good life", and I discovered that there are places springing up all over
>the U.S. (and I expect elsewhere) which are smoking clubs - people can
>actually go there just to smoke their cigar, perhaps with a glass of
>after-dinner liquor.    I thought this was a great idea, myself, because
>here these people can be with others who enjoy the same activity, and
>there's no one outside who can complain (not yet, anyway).

My interpretation is that many people are fed up with the anti-smoking
Nazis.  The most "in your face" form of smoking is cigars.  So they smoke
cigars.  The hard core smoke Cuban cigars.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | The Internet was designed  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | to protect the free world  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | from hostile governments.  | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







From adam at homeport.org  Thu Sep  4 09:46:30 1997
From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:46:30 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970904132738.0071dd00@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <199709041621.MAA12307@homeport.org>



	Its a pretty aggressive claim.  There are plenty of law
enforcement types who want strong crypto, understanding that it stops
crime.  But when you say "top law enforcement advisors," sure.

	I don't know anyone outside of LE who wants a government
policy on this stuff anymore.

Adam 


John Young wrote:
| The on-line NYT's claim today that everyone except the 
| administration is opposed to its crypto policy is daring
| hyperbole. What's your take on that?
| 
|   http://jya.com/crypto-tops.htm
| 


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume







From tcmay at got.net  Thu Sep  4 10:09:41 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:09:41 +0800
Subject: Krispin Preaches Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <19970829093945.49609@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: 



At 8:37 AM -0700 9/4/97, Duncan Frissell wrote:

>None of us have had time to become Bitter Old Revolutionary Extremists yet.
>Tim and I am members of the same birth cohort.  He tends towards depression
>and I tend towards optimism but both of us have seen quite a few changes over

I prefer the term "pessimism" to "depression." The opposite of optimistic
is pessimistic, not depressed, which has a clinical sound to it.


>Conquering an "anarchy" is hard enough because of the lack of anyone to
>surrender.  Conquering an "anarchy" that is springing up all around you at
>the "speed of business" or in "net time" is even harder.  The only tactical
>option that would work for our rulers in the current political situation is
>to "nuke us back to the stone age" so that they could regain their
>traditional force ratios.

And this is what I think they may try: a global crackdown to try to stamp
out the wildfire of anarchocapitalism before it spreads beyond any hope of
control.

Our opponents understand full well the power of strong crypto and
unassailable privacy to facillitate this kind of anarchy and this kind of
voluntary, self-selected, virtual communities.

They understand, we understand, and even some in the media understand. The
politicians don't, for the most part.

Louis Freeh is no dummy. He understands the power struggle. But he has to
speak babytalk to Feinswine and Kyl to let them glimpse what the issues are.

--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From tcmay at got.net  Thu Sep  4 10:22:48 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:22:48 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <2bb492db8556543171a4af60b2cea4ed@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 



At 9:03 AM -0700 9/4/97, Anonymous wrote:
>> Yes, rest assured that Big Brother is watching. Three CopBots have been
>> deployed around the county to take pictures of vehicles exiting
>> intersections after the light has turned red. These CopBots are a great
>> boon to our prosperity and security as they free up the huminoid Cops from
>> traffic duties so that they can better spend their time toilet plunger
>> kicking.
>
>Yes, they love these in Germany too. Ways to combat:
>
>1) Wax your license plate, especially the front one.
>

Or smear mud on the plates. This is an old trick.

(We have the cameras in our area, too. In Campbell, CA, for example. My
recollection from news stories is that the camera also snaps a photo of the
driver, allowing reasonably positive ID. If the photo is blurred or not
usable in court, the traffic charge is dropped (probably only if
challenged, though). Some interesting constitutional issues, it seems to
me. Namely, if Alice is driving Bob's car and is ticketed, should Bob face
the points on his license? Or even criminal charges? Seems to violate our
notions of scienter.)

By the way, a useful survival trick is to have a spare set of license
plates available.  It's not a crime to carry an old set around in one's
vehicle, only to actually use them (and be caught). Sometimes these can be
found at junkyards, sometimes old plates from other states don't have to be
turned in. And the unscrupulous can steal plates from other cars (or switch
them, though this has obvious problems if they are traceable to you!!).

Sure, these plates won't be "valid," and may not have current stickers (if
they're old). But if the cops are looking for your car, or even using
automated plate scanners on toll roads, bridges, etc., then having some old
plates from your Oregon car sure beats having the plates their computers
have flagged.

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From enoch at zipcon.net  Thu Sep  4 10:54:09 1997
From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:54:09 +0800
Subject: Freeh is Marked for Deletion
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19970904173627.10237.qmail@zipcon.net>



Timothy C. May writes:

> Freeh must be removed by any means necessary. His calling for mandatory (or
> involuntary) key escrow marks him as unworthy of continued tenure. He is
> marked for deletion.

Dan Quayle was Bush's life insurance.  Who is Freeh's?

----- And now, cryptography fans, I am appending a message I posted at
least 8 times to the list yesterday, with nothing appearing except one
message with no body attached.  In case someone out there has actually
been getting all of them, I apologize in advance.

Subject: Cypherpunk Action Items

Timothy C. May writes:

 > OK, you asked. This isn't a comprehensive list.

 > 1. Fully secure machine to machine connections for the Net,
 > as in Gilmore's "SWAN" project. This makes the Net
 > unsnoopable by the NSA and other TLAs, and makes encryption
 > an automatic (at this level...individual users will of
 > course still encrypt on top of this, as relying on others
 > is never enough).

Sounds reasonable.  I presume we are talking about end-to-end
encryption being the default for connections, and not link
encryption over various hops of the Net here.

 > 2. A usable form of Chaum's cash, a la Goldberg's or
 > Schear's or Back's or whomever's implementation. An
 > evolution of Magic Money, Hashcash, etc., using full
 > strength algorithms. Backing can be decentralized. Less
 > emphasis on deals with banks, more emphasis on guerilla
 > deployment, a la PGP.

Nice, but who is going to be the first to back modular exponents
with actual money?  I recall this being a big stumbling block
back when Chaumiam Cash discussions appeared previously on the
list.  Something like NetCash (The agents.com flavor, not the
Netcash/Netcheque paper), although not very anonymous, is
infinitely more suited to micropayments and integration into
various transport protocols.

 > 3. Distributed, decentralized data bases, a la Eternity,
 > Blacknet, etc. My number one candidate: a commercial credit
 > rating data base not bound by the U.S.' "Fair Credit
 > Reporting Act." Let lenders and landlords find out the dirt
 > on those who welshed on loans or who skipped out on leases,
 > regardless of what the FCRA says. (This could technically be
 > located today in any non-U.S. country, practically, but
 > access by U.S. persons and corporations would have to be
 > done circumspectly. A good use for blinded cash, of the
 > _fully_ untraceable sort, e.g. payer- and payee-anonymous
 > sort.)

I'm still a fan of my "Network Cache Server" approach to
anonymous message pools and distributed data bases, even if only
to reduce spam and provide a completely reliable Usenet.

This then embeds into the Net three levels of communication, with
varying degrees of latency and reliability.

       UDP:  Alice says, "Here's some octets for Bob.  I hope
             they don't get lost in transit."

       TCP:  Alice and Bob are within sight of each other and
             toss octets back and forth, each replacing any the
             other fails to catch.

       NCS:  Alice says to her local cache service, "Here are
             some octets which expire in 10 minutes and a
             micropayment."  Alice gets a 256 bit receipt,
             which may be presented to any other cache server
             to retrieve Alice's octets in the next 10 minutes.

 > 4. Wider use of persisistent pseudonyms. Most of the
 > "anonymous" posts we see are signed in cleartext with names
 > like "TruthMonger," "BombMonger," etc., with little use of
 > PGP sigs to ensure persistence. Spoofing is trivial.
 > Checking sigs is up to the *end reader*, for example, to
 > see that "Pr0duct Cipher" really is the same nym that's in
 > the past posted as Pr0duct Cipher, but it might be useful
 > for us to start really making more use of this sig checking,
 > and even to maintain our own data base of nyms and their
 > public keys, as a kind of demonstration testbed.

This is really a user action item, not a Cyperpunks action item.
The techology to do this already exists.  Like most people, I
will start signing all my posts if I am spoofed in a believable
way, and enjoy the plausable deniability that comes with not
signing them if I am not.

 > What I meant be "the wrong stuff" is the recent focus on
 > breaking simple ciphers that were known to be breakable 20
 > years ago...just a matter of applying the computons in the
 > right way.

Correct.  This continuous brute-forcing of wider and wider keys
has ceased to entertain.  Unless someone comes up with a way to
make less computing power do more keys, I'm really not interested
in hearing about it.

Of course, the first such efforts served to show how distributed
efforts could be mounted on the Net, how much computing power you
could snarf for free, and other interesting things.  However, now
that these things are known, repeating the experiment every week
is not necessary.

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     enoch at zipcon.com   $    via Finger                       $
         {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}








From enoch at zipcon.net  Thu Sep  4 11:12:22 1997
From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:12:22 +0800
Subject: Plunger Pervert Returns to Work
Message-ID: <19970904175553.11355.qmail@zipcon.net>



Officer Volpe is back on the job, on modified duty minus his badge and
gun.  Apparently the union contract prohibits suspensions over 30 days in
length. 

Gee - you'd think someone like that would be in jail on multimillion
dollar bail as a "suspected sex offender."  If he is convicted, will laws
require him to register for life and notify his neighbors when he moves in
next door to them? 

I certainly wouldn't want this sadistic pervert with his fixation on
minority anuses living next door to me.  If he weren't a cop, they
probably would have searched his house immediately looking for evidence of
other crimes.  I'll bet Officer Volpe has a really unusual porn and dildo
collection.

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     enoch at zipcon.com   $    via Finger                       $
         {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}
 






From attila at hun.org  Thu Sep  4 11:22:12 1997
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:22:12 +0800
Subject: Freeh's ScheiBeSturm
Message-ID: <199709041813.MAA11418@infowest.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    the even more ominous (and ridiculous) demand which Freeh
    (apparently even more emboldened) is presenting:

        "...And Louis J. Freeh, the director of the FBI, raised
        the prospect of also requiring Internet service 
        providers to have keys to the data flowing over 
        their networks. "Law enforcement needs to have a 
        system for immediate decryption" when a judge 
        determines it is likely that crime is being or 
        is about to be committed, Freeh told the 
        Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism and
        Government Information. "We should also look at     
        whether network service providers should have a 
        system for immediate decryption." ....

    this is nothing short of demanding _three_ key encryption,
    with the third key a _universal_ master key for the men who
    claim they wear the white hats, but tinker with the facts in
    their "crime" labs --whose crime?  "ours" or theirs?  Given
    the historical perspective on abuse of power by our federal
    government (and everybody else down their food chain), this
    is patently absurd --yet they WILL try for it.

    asking Congress to evaluate the technology of information
    exchange, let alone the nuances of encryption, is a waste 
    of effort in the shitstorm of Louis Freeh's inflammatory     
    predictions of the four horsemen.  There are not more than a
    handful who have the intelligence to do much other than collect
    bribes.

    why dont the bastards admit it?  all they really want is to wire
    our brains, implant an ID, and enable GPS on us.


 "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."     
        --Benjamin Franklin
 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

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From attila at hun.org  Thu Sep  4 11:50:03 1997
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:50:03 +0800
Subject: Freeh is Marked for Deletion
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709041831.MAA12346@infowest.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 970904:0808 
    Tim May  expostulated:
[snip on Declan...]

+We're in a state of war with these war criminals.

+Freeh must be removed by any means necessary. His calling for mandatory
+(or involuntary) key escrow marks him as unworthy of continued tenure.
+He is marked for deletion.

    Is not the word EXPUNGE what you mean?  
    suits my feelings, just fine.


 "When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates. 
     For once, let him clean up after me! " 
        --Christian Worley

 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

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From sunder at brainlink.com  Thu Sep  4 11:56:00 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:56:00 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



All this jizzing aside, on how long it will take to get there is useless
unless someone on the other side has an ftp server that can accept
incoming files of that size? :)  I'm sure there are plenty of ftp crypto
sites out there, but how many have incoming directories that will allow
upto 650mb?  Or the equivalent of P.O. boxes and such for snail mailing of
the CD's...

Also, IMHO, if you do live outside of the USA and download the CD, you
should make an anonymous donation of $100USD or whatever to Dr. Dobbs. 
The idea is to fuck with the ITARs, not to pirate Dr. Dobbs's stuff,
after all, they were nice enough to make the stuff available... :)

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================






From sunder at brainlink.com  Thu Sep  4 12:24:25 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 03:24:25 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <2bb492db8556543171a4af60b2cea4ed@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 



On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote:

> 2) When you find one of these unattended critters along the road, wave
> your hand in front of it at amazing speeds until it runs out of film.
> (Ensure middle finger is extended.)

Depends on the kind of camera.  If it's a video camera, you might be able
to blind the bitch by blasting loads of IR at it which would be
invisible to any donut munchers watching you....   Anyone know a source
for big IR lamps?

Any way to defeat film bearing cameras?

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================






From fabrice at math.Princeton.EDU  Thu Sep  4 12:57:41 1997
From: fabrice at math.Princeton.EDU (Fabrice Planchon)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 03:57:41 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <2bb492db8556543171a4af60b2cea4ed@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <19970904154807.23567@math.princeton.edu>



On Thu, Sep 04, 1997 at 10:01:20AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> (We have the cameras in our area, too. In Campbell, CA, for example. My
> recollection from news stories is that the camera also snaps a photo of the
> driver, allowing reasonably positive ID. If the photo is blurred or not
> usable in court, the traffic charge is dropped (probably only if
> challenged, though). Some interesting constitutional issues, it seems to
> me. Namely, if Alice is driving Bob's car and is ticketed, should Bob face
> the points on his license? Or even criminal charges? Seems to violate our
> notions of scienter.)

Photo radars are common in France, too. I was told by a cop friend that
no more than 20% of the photos are useable (that is, show clearly the
license plate for purpose of identification). And the law was modified a
couple of years ago, to answer the question you ask. If somebody is
driving your car, and you don't give his name, then you face the charges
(pay the ticket, and get the points...). The funny thing is, when they
started using photo radars, they were sending the photo with the
summons. Which, of course can be a problem, as if your wife opens it and
find the photo with you and and your mistress. This actually happened,
and the court ruled it was a violation of privacy. Now you have to go to
the police to see the photo. Needless to say, anything you would use to
cover your plates is outlawed...

                           F.

-- 
Fabrice Planchon                                          (ph) 609/258-6495
Applied Math Program, 210 Fine Hall                      (fax) 609/258-1735








From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Thu Sep  4 13:27:25 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 04:27:25 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709042002.WAA29666@basement.replay.com>



Tim May wrote:
> 
> At 9:03 AM -0700 9/4/97, Anonymous wrote:
> >> Yes, rest assured that Big Brother is watching. Three CopBots have been
> >> deployed around the county to take pictures of vehicles exiting
> >> intersections after the light has turned red. 

> (We have the cameras in our area, too. In Campbell, CA, for example. My
> recollection from news stories is that the camera also snaps a photo of the
> driver, allowing reasonably positive ID. If the photo is blurred or not
> usable in court, the traffic charge is dropped (probably only if
> challenged, though). Some interesting constitutional issues, it seems to
> me. Namely, if Alice is driving Bob's car and is ticketed, should Bob face
> the points on his license? Or even criminal charges? Seems to violate our
> notions of scienter.)

  Their is a pair of on-off ramps in the Bay area where they have the
PhotoCop Bots on both sides you can get nailed both ways if you circle
back and forth.
  I like to steal the plates off of a matching vehicle late at night
and spend an hour or so speeding back and forth between the exits, then
replacing the plates on the vehicle when I'm done.
(Hint: wear a cap and glasses with the big clown nose.)

  Not that I'm a troublemaker...

PlateMonger






From rodger at worldnet.att.net  Thu Sep  4 13:33:21 1997
From: rodger at worldnet.att.net (Will Rodger)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 04:33:21 +0800
Subject: More metaphors: Key Recovery like "painting the windshield black?"
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970904161226.006978cc@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Marc Rotenberg had a compelling simile to counter Director Freeh's 
"airbag" statement on mandatory key recovery yesterday. Though some 
outlets saw the FBI position as a radical departure, this writer saw 
only more emphasis on themes from previous statements. This is from 
my story this AM.

- From :
http://www4.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/inwo/0904/inwo0003.html


"But Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Center, said 
the statement wasn't surprising. Indeed, documents obtained under the 
Freedom of Information Act and posted on the group's Web site for the 
past two years show that various parties within the White House have 
long favored mandatory controls. 'This is such old news that we had 
this on our Christmas cards two years ago,' Rotenberg said. 'We've 
known all along this was their goal. Louis Freeh says mandatory key 
escrow is like airbags? It's more like painting the windshield black. 
Happy driving, crypto users.'"

Denning had much to say against immediate imposition of mandatory 
controls, as well.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Will Rodger                                           Voice: +1 202-408-7027 
Washington Bureau Chief                        Fax: +1 202-789-2036
Inter at ctive Week                    http://www.interactiveweek.com
A Ziff-Davis Publication            
   PGP 2.6.2: D83D 0095 299C 2505 25FA 93FE DDF6 9B5F







From declan at pathfinder.com  Thu Sep  4 13:50:54 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 04:50:54 +0800
Subject: Stupid Senate Tricks -- request for help
Message-ID: 



After yesterday's crypto-hearing, I decided I should write a story about
Stupid Senate Tricks -- how your elected representatives misspeak,
misstate, and misstep when it comes to technology. From the "What is PGP" 
question at a recent hearing to Feinstein's meaningless blather yesterday,
this is fertile ground. 

Do you have any favorite quotes? Not just crypto, but CDA, copyright, and
technology in general. Send 'em to declan at well.com.

thanks,

Declan







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Thu Sep  4 14:39:41 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:39:41 +0800
Subject: Feinstein first...then Clinton..._then_ the lawyers!
Message-ID: <199709042123.XAA07756@basement.replay.com>




And while Clinton on July 1 took a very public stand for a tax-free, 
self-governed Internet,

In contrast to Clinton's support of proposals like the Internet Tax 
Freedom Act, which would prohibit states from taxing online commerce,

  Excuse me? Sounds like a 'State-tax'-free InterNet.
  The proposal to give the States money for welfare and let them decide
how to disperse it is the preliminary move toward dropping the funding
levels and let the States bear the burden of the fallout from the new
welfare 'reforms'. First you dump it in the lap of the States, then you
cut back funding, and you let the citizens cry out to D.C. for help,
at which time you take away even more of their rights in return for
"protecting" them from the evil States, or you turn them into slave
labor for big corporations, like you did with the people in your
prisons.
  Once the States are prohibited by law from taxing online commerce,
D.C. will suddenly discover the great "crisis" that will ensue when
the citizens find out how to dodge taxes, and the Feds will step
forward to "save the day" by announcing a Federal InterNet commerce
tax, promising to "share" it with the States. (Of course, the States
won't _get_ their share if they don't force their citizens to drive
55 mph and work 20 hours a week in the voluntary-mandatory Federal
Re-election Campaign Fund Work Camp.

During discussion of the Kerrey-McCain bill in July, Feinstein left 
before her constituents from the software industry in the Silicon 
Valley testified -- and after telling representatives of the FBI and 
the National Security Agency that she would defer to their expertise 
on what was a confusing issue. 

  I didn't see the FBI or the NSA on the election ballot. Did you?
  I ask you, "WHO THE FUCK IS RUNNING THIS COUNTRY?!?!?"

  Where does this Nazi CUNT get off telling the people who elected her
that she can't be bothered to make the effort to understand the issues
involved so she will let nameless, faceless government Law Enforcement
Agents make the decision as to what to do with the encryption plunger.

NEWS FLASH!!! --- THIS JUST IN...
  The pilot of a U.S. nuclear bomber left formation before receiving
her flight orders from the Pentagon--and after telling Tim C. May
and James Dalton Bell that she would defer to their expertise on
what was a confusing issue (where to drop the BIG ONE).
  President Clinton, when reached for comment, said, "Didn't we fire
that slut from Minot Air Force Base? And what the fuck is Paula Jones
doing up there with her? Say...what is that plane............"

In solidarity, we remain...
FineSwineFirstMonger
CintonNextMonger
ThenTheLawyersMonger
KentCrispinMonger 
Kent'sBossMonger
TheSpookReadingKentAndHisBoss'sPrivateEmailMonger
TheSpookReadingTheOtherSpooksEmailMonger
EtcEtcMonger






From alan at ctrl-alt-del.com  Thu Sep  4 14:44:23 1997
From: alan at ctrl-alt-del.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:44:23 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs CD-ROM outside the US?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904142430.04533b20@ctrl-alt-del.com>



At 02:40 PM 9/4/97 -0400, Ray Arachelian wrote:
>
>All this jizzing aside, on how long it will take to get there is useless
>unless someone on the other side has an ftp server that can accept
>incoming files of that size? :)  I'm sure there are plenty of ftp crypto
>sites out there, but how many have incoming directories that will allow
>upto 650mb?  Or the equivalent of P.O. boxes and such for snail mailing of
>the CD's...
>
>Also, IMHO, if you do live outside of the USA and download the CD, you
>should make an anonymous donation of $100USD or whatever to Dr. Dobbs. 
>The idea is to fuck with the ITARs, not to pirate Dr. Dobbs's stuff,
>after all, they were nice enough to make the stuff available... :)

Another recommendation is to subscribe.

Dr. Dobbs regularly publishes articles on encryption.  (There are a couple
of articles in this months issue, including an interview with Ron Rivest,
an article on the SSH protocol, and an article on the "block cipher square
algorythm".)  One of the few programming magazines I make sure to subscribe
to...

BTW, does anyone know of the strengths and weeknesses of the Square
algorythm published in the October Dr. Dobbs?

---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com|






From alano at teleport.com  Thu Sep  4 14:48:33 1997
From: alano at teleport.com (Alan Olsen)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:48:33 +0800
Subject: Political News from Wired News
Message-ID: <340F2A6A.4A4F@teleport.com>



http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/6605.html

Senators Embrace Mandatory Data
                     Keys

                     by Wired News Staff 
                     12:03pm  4.Sep.97.PDT In a major advance for
                     hard-line proponents of giving the government wide
                     access to electronic data, several influential
                     senators have declared their support of mandatory
                     key recovery features for all encryption-enabled
                     software sold in the United States. 

                     At a Judiciary subcommittee meeting Wednesday,
                     Senator Dianne Feinstein was among those who
                     came out strongly in support of the position taken
                     by FBI Director Louis Freeh that mandatory key
                     recovery is essential to deterring crime. 

                     "Nothing other than some kind of mandatory key
                     recovery really does the job," the California
                     Democrat said at a hearing of the Senate Judiciary
                     Committee's technology, terrorism, and
                     government information subcommittee. "The
                     public-safety issue is a paramount one." 

                     The subcommittee's chairman, Senator Jon Kyl
                     (R-Arizona), added that he was "in complete
                     agreement." 

                     The Clinton White House, like past
                     administrations, have, along with major police and
                     spy agencies, been strong supporters of such
                     measures. But in Congress, sweeping measures
                     to give government agents an easy-open back
                     door to scrambled data have been met with strong
                     opposition and legislation that cuts in the
opposite
                     direction. 

                     Bills in both the House and Senate have sought to
                     exclude mandatory key recovery systems as a
                     requirement not only for US software-makers and
                     users but also for export products. The Senate
                     version of this liberalized policy is, practically
                     speaking, dead, supplanted by the Secure Public
                     Networks Act by Senators Bob Kerrey
                     (D-Nebraska) and John McCain (R-Arizona). The
                     bill offers incentives to software manufacturers
for
                     building key recovery features into their products.
                     In the House, a liberalization bill by
Representative
                     Bob Goodlatte (R-Virginia) is not only alive but
has
                     gained a majority of members as cosponsors. 

                     The software industry, civil liberties advocates,
and
                     privacy groups on both the right and the left have
                     opposed mandatory key recovery. Some
                     opponents were stunned by Wednesday's hearing.

                     "It was really shocking to hear how casually
                     senators and the FBI director talked about
                     imposing domestic controls," said Alan Davidson,
                     staff counsel at the Center for Democracy and
                     Technology. "They've crossed a new line in this
                     debate." 

                     "It appears that Senator Feinstein wants a
                     Constitution- free zone for the Internet," said
David
                     Banisar, staff counsel at the Electronic Privacy
                     Information Center. 

                     Reuters contributed to this report.






From rodger at worldnet.att.net  Thu Sep  4 14:50:05 1997
From: rodger at worldnet.att.net (Will Rodger)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:50:05 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970903180515.00714940@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970904121842.00780f0c@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>
>Will is right to say Feinstein was harping on mandatory key escrow 
the
>entire time. I disagree, though, that Freeh "seemed to warm" to the 
idea;
>it's been a wet dream of the FBI for the longest time. 

Uh - duh. Actually we agree entirely.

"Seemed to warm" is - uncharacteristic as it may seem - an deliberate 
understatement.
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Will Rodger                                           Voice: +1 202-408-7027 
Washington Bureau Chief                        Fax: +1 202-789-2036
Inter at ctive Week                    http://www.interactiveweek.com
A Ziff-Davis Publication            
   PGP 2.6.2: D83D 0095 299C 2505 25FA 93FE DDF6 9B5F







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Thu Sep  4 14:50:19 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:50:19 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: <199709042124.XAA07781@basement.replay.com>



September 4, 1997
   Encryption Tops Wide-Ranging Net Agenda in Congress
   By JERI CLAUSING

The word encryption traditionally conjures images of spies and 
sophisticated international organizedcrime rings. But with the dawn of 
the Internet, it is also the key to private communication and secure
business transactions. 

And while Clinton on July 1 took a very public stand for a tax-free, 
self-governed Internet, his administration is pushing to create a 
key-recovery system that would keep encrypted codes on file for law 
enforcement officials to access. 

  Translation~~These ratfuckers are trying to keep a low profile until
they can get all of their draconian legislation passed, at which time
the sheeple will find out why the "rubber boots" rider was attached to
the legislation.
  How long before the Great InterNet Tax Avoidance Crisis (TM) requires
them to access the records of all companies and individuals in order to
make certain that the royal "we" are not "cheated" by our evil fellow
citizens.

"Law enforcement needs to have a system for immediate decryption" when 
a judge determines it is likely that crime is being or is about to be 
committed, Freeh told the Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism and 
Government Information. "We should also look at whether network service
providers should have a system for immediate decryption." 

Translation~~"Just as we need to be able to beat the citizens and shove 
toilet plungers up their ass if we have reason to suspect that they
have knowledge of a crime in their mind."
  Freeh wants to make certain that the citizens don't have the same
ability as the Whithouse, the Department of Justice, Congress, etc.,
to LIE to the courts, to the people, to each other. So if _we_ steal
a private company, murder members of a religious sect, get filthy
fucking rich on inside deals, then _we_ will go to jail.

TruthMonger
"What part of 'Nuke the Bastards!' don't they understand?"







From alan at ctrl-alt-del.com  Thu Sep  4 14:51:59 1997
From: alan at ctrl-alt-del.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:51:59 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <2bb492db8556543171a4af60b2cea4ed@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904141835.0459c8c0@ctrl-alt-del.com>



At 03:01 PM 9/4/97 -0400, Ray Arachelian wrote:
>
>On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote:
>
>> 2) When you find one of these unattended critters along the road, wave
>> your hand in front of it at amazing speeds until it runs out of film.
>> (Ensure middle finger is extended.)
>
>Depends on the kind of camera.  If it's a video camera, you might be able
>to blind the bitch by blasting loads of IR at it which would be
>invisible to any donut munchers watching you....   Anyone know a source
>for big IR lamps?
>
>Any way to defeat film bearing cameras?

Depends if the camera is watched.  

Vaseline on the lens will blur the image, but you have to get close enough
to get it there.

Hard radiation will blur the film, but tends to have nasty side effects.

Pain guns can cover the lens.

Spray paint cans on long poles (as used by agitprop graffiti artists) are
useful.  (Under the cover of night...)

Laser pointers hidden nearby and aimed at the lens.  (About $20 at your
local discount office store.)

Gas or kerosine poured on the camera will make a nice tiki tourch.

An air rifle or pellet gun may be quiet enough to hit the camera from a
distance, breaking the internals of the camera.  (A crossbow will work as
well, but those may be best saved for those unmarked helicopters planting
pot seeds on your property so the government can seize it later.)

A magnet placed on the side of video cameras may screw up the picture.
(This will only work for the metal cased cameras.  You also have to use a
strong magnet and get it in the right spot.)

I am sure others will have useful suggestions.

---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com|






From god at dev.null  Thu Sep  4 14:54:44 1997
From: god at dev.null (God)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:54:44 +0800
Subject: Stupid Senate Tricks -- request for help
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <340F2947.44C6@dev.null>



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> After yesterday's crypto-hearing, I decided I should write a story about
> Stupid Senate Tricks -- how your elected representatives misspeak,
> misstate, and misstep when it comes to technology. From the "What is PGP"
> question at a recent hearing to Feinstein's meaningless blather yesterday,
> this is fertile ground.
> 
> Do you have any favorite quotes? Not just crypto, but CDA, copyright, and
> technology in general. Send 'em to declan at well.com.

  What about FineSwine announcing that she is turning her vote over to
the NSAzi's and the FBInquisitioners?

  What about Clinton announcing that he is in favor of a self-governing
InterNet with government spies everywhere?

  What about politicians still calling America a "democracy."  Ha, ha,
pretty funny. 

GodMonger






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Thu Sep  4 15:11:04 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:11:04 +0800
Subject: One Smart Polack (Was: Students of Hitler)
Message-ID: <199709042157.XAA10948@basement.replay.com>



Vin Suprynowicz,   vin at lvrj.com
"A well-regulated population being necessary to the security of a police
state, the right of the Government to keep and destroy arms shall not 
be infringed."

http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/






From feanor at nym.alias.net  Thu Sep  4 15:35:10 1997
From: feanor at nym.alias.net (Feanor Curufinwe)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:35:10 +0800
Subject: Alternative to MTB?  (was Re: DigiCash issuers)
Message-ID: <19970904222009.7332.qmail@nym.alias.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sep 4, 14:17, Zooko Journeyman wrote:
} Subject: DigiCash issuers
> 
> Feanor wrote:
> >There might be other reasons for this:  have you looked at their _fees_???
> >Holy crap!  That's the only reason I don't have an account.  They're charging
> >top dollar for every aspect of a system that has it's only overhead in
> minimal
> >amounts of CPU time.
> 
> 
> You might be a bit behind the times on this issue.  Recently 
> MTB announced new lower fees: http://www.marktwain.com/fee.html
> 
> Are these the ones you consider excessive?

No, actually, they're fine.  Except that they penalize the merchant mroe than
the customer, which I find stupid in a tech as new as this.

> Note that if you consider the new fees to be reasonable, then 
> you are now obliged to open account as per your publically 
> posted exclamation quoted above.  :-)

Hrmm... Well, It appears I lied.  Here's the _other_ reasons why might not still
get an MTB account (although I might anyways, with some creative form filling):

1.  Lack of real anonymity.  Feh.  Nuff said.
2.  Cleint software.  You should be able to do e-cash with e-mail if you want
	to.
3.  Lack of code avalability.  Although this is improving.
4.  Chaumian blind signatures. OK, the guy's smart, but I've heard over and over
	again how much of a prick he is about liscencing.  Liek a multiplication
	and subsequent division deserves a patent.  Sheesh.

I asked before, but no-one answered:

Would any of you be interested in an e-cash that didn't have any of the points
above working against it?  Although, obviously, client softare could be writtent
ot facilitate things.

As I said before, the mint does not need to store identity-related info with the
list of coins.  With an e-mail based system and the remailers, you can be _sure_
this is not taking place.



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQBVAwUBNA79jxkU7YRPCnEJAQFNQgIAwNJpK/NRKjtLM6z0kEzwxpHlhTxoj/WF
XOZDZ3rXNfgs7oamptvRKa5+WXo3qzvqEQUk3BPKgaU8zhQuKW8LDw==
=87LT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From alrice at swcp.com  Thu Sep  4 16:08:59 1997
From: alrice at swcp.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:08:59 +0800
Subject: U.S. Prison Labor
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709042249.QAA10332@tora.swcp.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

bureau42> Does anyone have pointers to information/details about U.S. prison
bureau42> inmates being used as slave labour for international corporations?
bureau42> Thanx

You might want to visit http://www.pinkertons.com/ and hit "Security
Consulting Systems".

- -- 
Alex Rice 
'finger -l alrice at swcp.com' for PGP public key
- ---
"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would
set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave
them." --Dune.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface

iQCVAwUBNA86gW0YPJ2QYdEFAQF8xgQAn/fuZdRELut5whBGEsPcE/M70sOz15p/
mc8MO3yquids25uCniRApeUUxMZEn08l7jTuMdIcbitVetsZuMlOO6CCre05RUvw
WLeKiri+IkQV7mty/+219qYOLadsi6PVyPIzK2pAUEFztt+WxPJdEdRuGouEScOY
XpbemxyaYRY=
=1UDk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Thu Sep  4 16:28:02 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:28:02 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <19970904154807.23567@math.princeton.edu>
Message-ID: 



Fabrice Planchon  writes:

> 
> On Thu, Sep 04, 1997 at 10:01:20AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> > (We have the cameras in our area, too. In Campbell, CA, for example. My
> > recollection from news stories is that the camera also snaps a photo of the
> > driver, allowing reasonably positive ID. If the photo is blurred or not
> > usable in court, the traffic charge is dropped (probably only if
> > challenged, though). Some interesting constitutional issues, it seems to
> > me. Namely, if Alice is driving Bob's car and is ticketed, should Bob face
> > the points on his license? Or even criminal charges? Seems to violate our
> > notions of scienter.)
> 
> Photo radars are common in France, too. I was told by a cop friend that
> no more than 20% of the photos are useable (that is, show clearly the
> license plate for purpose of identification). And the law was modified a
> couple of years ago, to answer the question you ask. If somebody is
> driving your car, and you don't give his name, then you face the charges
> (pay the ticket, and get the points...). The funny thing is, when they
> started using photo radars, they were sending the photo with the
> summons. Which, of course can be a problem, as if your wife opens it and
> find the photo with you and and your mistress. This actually happened,
> and the court ruled it was a violation of privacy. Now you have to go to
> the police to see the photo. Needless to say, anything you would use to
> cover your plates is outlawed...


I believe in New York State the car owner is liable for the fine, but no
one gets points off the licence based on the photo.

In some jurisdictions one can get a ticket for having too much mud or dust
on the licence tag, making it hard to read.

P.S. Also in NYS cars have a paper sticker on the inside of the windshield
listing among other things the recent mileage, the year, and the licence #.
Tim's idea of using another car's tags won't work here.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From ant at notatla.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep  4 16:31:12 1997
From: ant at notatla.demon.co.uk (Antonomasia)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:31:12 +0800
Subject: TEA REMAILER: new mix key & type-1 pgponly mended
Message-ID: <199709042222.XAA05406@notatla.demon.co.uk>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----



My apologies for the recent failure of the type-1 portion of tea,
due to my clumsiness with procmail.

The tea remailer has a new mix key, as is my custom, old ones
remain in force _for a little while_.  (If somebody can explain how
to force the use of the previous key on a new installation I'd
be pleased to learn - I haven't managed so far.)

The (not very) old PGP key remains unchanged.


Here is the public key for The Email Anonymizer:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
tea tea at notatla.demon.co.uk c0c054d374a12420e881dd7d27bff5fc 2.0.4b14 MC

- -----Begin Mix Key-----
c0c054d374a12420e881dd7d27bff5fc
258
AASoHzHsRr3emZA9t0ARvKUf6K4/5rYxRxuYk7XD
6ECrnZIQjYYeloI2yiiN+NUXCrVbsSUJqgGCnX+O
XoTdOaO2d/GA5r4rB8EsjLVNewAKq9w6a7vIhO5m
4OyNC7rvA3xkiaexrdbt6/qN4Ab1+SY7GuTOKXwy
5bLHC2qPzqVVNwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB
- -----End Mix Key-----



Key for user ID: The Email Anonymizer 
2048-bit key, key ID C551BA85, created 1997/08/25

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i
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=mKq+
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAgUBNA80E0rZ5ZQH9XIxAQEqKgP8DROVlKims1cIxImaormPrsGk7HLnxCtq
pw5WjER7nnI4jQMhXAlo4sWUeuCNKaCCq9zzghrtlRO2hHKk4QJ1DtKvKhlcs9Go
V0cT/iCoz51ogxRWma/G+3LKUoTTq34+6KsCFxl+sCvjk0gFBQQSqUPx+BBxbh41
HgaD/zFS/E4=
=/0UG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant at notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Thu Sep  4 16:36:12 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:36:12 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Ray Arachelian  writes:

> On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> > 2) When you find one of these unattended critters along the road, wave
> > your hand in front of it at amazing speeds until it runs out of film.
> > (Ensure middle finger is extended.)
> 
> Depends on the kind of camera.  If it's a video camera, you might be able
> to blind the bitch by blasting loads of IR at it which would be
> invisible to any donut munchers watching you....   Anyone know a source
> for big IR lamps?
> 
> Any way to defeat film bearing cameras?

A little laser aimed at the right place at the right time?

(My late grandfather lost an eye in a laser accident)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Thu Sep  4 16:36:15 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:36:15 +0800
Subject: Plunger Pervert Returns to Work
In-Reply-To: <19970904175553.11355.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 



Mike Duvos  writes:

> 
> Officer Volpe is back on the job, on modified duty minus his badge and
> gun.  Apparently the union contract prohibits suspensions over 30 days in
> length. 
> 
> Gee - you'd think someone like that would be in jail on multimillion
> dollar bail as a "suspected sex offender."  If he is convicted, will laws
> require him to register for life and notify his neighbors when he moves in
> next door to them? 
> 
> I certainly wouldn't want this sadistic pervert with his fixation on
> minority anuses living next door to me.  If he weren't a cop, they
> probably would have searched his house immediately looking for evidence of
> other crimes.  I'll bet Officer Volpe has a really unusual porn and dildo
> collection.

This Volpe guy has been convicted in the media already.

I don't know about Prof. Duvos, but I'm not psychic, haven't been there,
and haven't seen anything.  We have a collection of highly contradictory
statements from the same folks whose official party line is that OJ didn't
butcher two people and that Tawana Brawley (remember her?) was raped by
white cops. I haven't seen any evidence that would contradict the defense's
claim that the victim was sodomized with the plunger in the night club before
he was taken into custody by the police.

By the way, have you seen the alleged daughter whom the victim hasn't been
in touch with since her birth?  Now that her mother got the whiff of tens of
millions of dollars in settlement, she's very interested in her alleged father.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From declan at well.com  Thu Sep  4 17:22:27 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:22:27 +0800
Subject: Administration backs away from FBI on crypto, by A.Pressman (fwd)
Message-ID: 





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: fight-censorship-announce at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Administration backs away from FBI on crypto, by A.Pressman



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 16:55:06 -0400
From: Aaron Pressman 
To: declan at well.com
Subject: crytpo etc

Clinton administration back away from FBI on encryption
    By Aaron Pressman
   WASHINGTON, Sept 4 (Reuter) - The Clinton administration's top official
on encryption policy on Thursday backed away from a proposal by the head of
 the FBI to regulate for the first time computer coding products in the
United States.
   "What he proposed was not the administration's policy," Commerce
Undersecretary William Reinsch told reporters during a break at a
congressional hearing.
   FBI Director Louis Freeh's comments Wednesday before a subcommittee of
the Senate Judiciary Committee sparked strong criticism from civil
liberties groups and the software industry.
   U.S. law strictly regulates the export of encryption products, which can
 be used to scramble information and render it unreadable without a
password or software "key." But on Wednesday, Freeh proposed mandatory
controls on currently unregulated coding products intended solely for
domestic use.
   "The administration has been very clear to the director that he has an
obligation to tell the Congress what's in the interests of law enforcement,
 and he did that," Reinsch explained. "That doesn't mean he was speaking
for everybody."
   Freeh said makers of encryption products should include features that
would allow the government to crack any message.
   Without such capabilities, criminals, terrorists and pedophiles could
use encryption to hide their communications from law enforcement agencies,
Freeh said.
   But software companies maintain that Freeh's plan would make their
products less attractive and make all electronic messages less secure.
Civil liberties groups said mandatory controls on domestic encryption might
 violate constitutional guarantees of free speech and privacy.
   Under the FBI director's proposal, all encryption products would have a
feature allowing government access to coded messages, but users could
disable or avoid using the feature.
   Some senators wanted to go further. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California
Democrat, proposed requiring all users of encryption to enable the
back-door access feature. Freeh said such a law would be the best solution
for law enforcement but added that he did not think it was politically
viable.
   Reinsch said Freeh's proposal was also unlikely to pass.
   "If the committee were to report that (bill out), I think that would be
something we would look at very seriously," he said. "But I don't expect
that to happen. We have not asked them to report that and we are not going
to ask them to report that."

Thursday, 4 September 1997 16:13:38
RTRS [nN04290412]


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual  sender,
except  where  the  sender  specifically  states them to be the views of
Reuters Ltd.








From enoch at zipcon.net  Thu Sep  4 17:35:24 1997
From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:35:24 +0800
Subject: Plunger Pervert Returns to Work
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19970905002220.13272.qmail@zipcon.net>



Dr. Vulis writes:

 > I haven't seen any evidence that would contradict the defense's claim
 > that the victim was sodomized with the plunger in the night club before
 > he was taken into custody by the police. 

Ah.  So he fought like a tiger against police who were beating him
with their radios with a broken jaw, ruptured bladder, and perforated
colon suffered hours earlier during a kinky gay sex act.

I've never seen a case of alleged police brutality the police didn't 
try to lie their way out of.  Perhaps this will be the first.

 > By the way, have you seen the alleged daughter whom the victim hasn't
 > been in touch with since her birth?  Now that her mother got the whiff
 > of tens of millions of dollars in settlement, she's very interested in
 > her alleged father.

Maybe she can hire Bill Cosby's lawyer. 

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     enoch at zipcon.com   $    via Finger                       $
         {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}






From attila at hun.org  Thu Sep  4 17:38:36 1997
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:38:36 +0800
Subject: U.S. Prison Labor
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709050033.SAA01538@infowest.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 970904:1353 
    bureau42 Anonymous Remailer  expostulated:

+Does anyone have pointers to information/details about U.S. prison
+inmates being used as slave labour for international corporations?
    
    try:  Linda Thompson 

    she's been on the kick of prisoners' rights, slave labour, etc.
    for some time.  Linda is a reactionary lawyer out of Indianpolis
    (of all places) --she gets around though on a lot of causes. she's
    not popular with the Feds over any number of issues, WACO for one, 
    where she has took interesting film footage.

    I've duelled with Linda before; very articulate and very 
    opinionated. usually good data, too.


  "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."     
        --Benjamin Franklin
 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQCVAwUBNA9TIb04kQrCC2kFAQGHjAP+OaTc/8HDsU12eJsz/JdvVO19+L6RbLH6
WJddcLjzk0fqUDYJI+UwKCToq2LSJ/gMvRcAetCZ8o9oHAM2sp6o1TtUJ2xIVMNO
SwMt/WqhOaZ5XLZ+aJyfuLATp5JQEOmym8w9U/LoBN3J0n/C3hOA9yBmugQSTIEa
dVSi7drxuOA=
=3bD6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From gbroiles at netbox.com  Thu Sep  4 17:58:11 1997
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:58:11 +0800
Subject: Brute-force cracks, discovery, etc.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970904175307.007c6ea0@mail.io.com>




HotWired's "Hot Seat" interviewed two private investigators who consult
doing hostile data recovery. Their comments are interesting, both in terms
of illustrating what can (and can't) be recovered, and in terms of the
scope of civil discovery which has become standard in civil disputes. A
transcript is at
. 


--
Greg Broiles                | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles at netbox.com         | 
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto.






From nobody at neva.org  Thu Sep  4 18:40:58 1997
From: nobody at neva.org (Neva Remailer)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:40:58 +0800
Subject: clipper.csc.uvic.ca moved?
Message-ID: <199709050128.SAA11955@mail-gw3.pacbell.net>




Does anyone know if clipper.csc.uvic.ca has moved to another
location?







From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Thu Sep  4 19:02:12 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:02:12 +0800
Subject: After Key Escrow Passes
Message-ID: <8m7aPOpXlnoBDgELISq4FQ==@bureau42.ml.org>




"Badges? We don't need no stinking _badges_!"

PlagaristMonger






From update at INTERACTIVE.WSJ.COM  Fri Sep  5 10:08:12 1997
From: update at INTERACTIVE.WSJ.COM (WSJ Interactive Edition Editors)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Interactive Journal Launches New Tech Center
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970905115042.00ac87f0@pop.dowjones.com>


Dear Interactive Journal Subscriber:

If you haven't noticed it already, I wanted you to be aware of our new Tech
Center (http://interactive.wsj.com/edition/current/summaries/techmain.htm),
which represents a dramatic expansion of the Interactive
Journal's coverage of technology companies, trends and stocks.

Since we launched the Interactive Journal more than a year ago, our
technology pages and articles have consistently been among our most popular.
Tech Center, we think, not only organizes our coverage better but also
increases the number of stories we follow and the depth of background we
can deliver.

Tech Center reflects news contributions not only from the print
editions of The Wall Street Journal and from Dow Jones Newswires, but also
from an expanded Interactive Journal news staff in New York and San
Francisco dedicated to original coverage for the section. Its four
news areas, all updated throughout the day and night, are:

� Systems - Breaking stories in hardware and software.
� Ventures - Alliances and new businesses shaping the technology landscape.
� Fast Forward - The converging worlds of telecommunications, media and
computing.
� Tech Stocks - Major earnings announcements and other trends of interest
to technology investors.

In addition, Tech Center will offer a growing library of "Issue Briefings,"
concise background reports on key technology trends such as Java and online
privacy; exclusive Interactive Journal profiles of dozens of top technology
companies; and reader forums on major technology stories and controversial
issues. Naturally, we also include the latest from Personal Technology
columnist Walter S. Mossberg, along with an archive of all his recent columns.

Please take a moment to explore Tech Center and let us know what you think,
and what else you would like to see there.

Neil F. Budde
Editor
The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition

feedback at interactive.wsj.com




_______________________________________________________________
Check out Small Business Suite, a new Interactive Edition feature
covering issues that matter most to small business owners, entrepreneurs,
and anyone who markets products or services to small businesses.
http://wsj.com/edition/current/summaries/small.htm
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__________________________________________________________________







From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Thu Sep  4 19:13:21 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:13:21 +0800
Subject: Plunger Pervert Returns to Work
In-Reply-To: <19970905002220.13272.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 



Mike Duvos  writes:

> Dr. Vulis writes:
>
>  > I haven't seen any evidence that would contradict the defense's claim
>  > that the victim was sodomized with the plunger in the night club before
>  > he was taken into custody by the police.
>
> Ah.  So he fought like a tiger against police who were beating him
> with their radios with a broken jaw, ruptured bladder, and perforated
> colon suffered hours earlier during a kinky gay sex act.

One of the stories given by the alleged victim was that he wasn't
fighting the cops at all.  Someone else supposedly punched Volpe and
Volpe supposedly mistook Louima for him. Yeah, right, and Tawana
Brawley was raped, and O.J. is innocent.

And he is Haitian and does look gay.  Remember the "4H" originally high
risk groups for AIDS, later hushed up for being politically incorrect?

> I've never seen a case of alleged police brutality the police didn't
> try to lie their way out of.  Perhaps this will be the first.

I believe in "innocent until proven guilty," even if I don't like the
accused's line of work.

>  > By the way, have you seen the alleged daughter whom the victim hasn't
>  > been in touch with since her birth?  Now that her mother got the whiff
>  > of tens of millions of dollars in settlement, she's very interested in
>  > her alleged father.
>
> Maybe she can hire Bill Cosby's lawyer.

I understand that one of the motherfucker shysters who represented O.J.Simpson
in his criminal trial is now representing Louima in a civil suit against NYC.
NYC taxpayers, get ready for an income tax hike. :-)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From hua at chromatic.com  Thu Sep  4 19:34:13 1997
From: hua at chromatic.com (Ernest Hua)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:34:13 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory clap escrow; Denning on export controls
Message-ID: <199709050216.TAA16978@ohio.chromatic.com>



All clap-on products sold or distributed in the U.S.
must have a clap escrow backdoor "like an airbag in a
car," law enforcement agents advised a Senate panel
this afternoon.

FBI Director Louis Freeh also told a Senate Judiciary
subcommittee that "appliance makers should be required
to have some immediate clap signature ability
available" permitting agents to readily identify
clappers who turned on or turned off appliances.

This marks the most aggressive push to date for
mandatory domestic clap escrow (or "clap recovery"),
which means someone else other than the clapper can
figure out who did the clapping.

Freeh noted that "technology has greatly changed the
balance of power in favor of the criminal element.  We
must right that balance by giving law enforcement the
tools necessary to catch the criminals.  The ability to
remotely enable/disable terrorist devices is a serious
challenge to law enforcement, and the only to stop its
criminal use is to allow law enforcement the ability to
identify the clapper.  Of course, there is already full
due-process procedures to ensure that law enforcement
officers do not violate the privacies of law-obiding
clappers.  But under a court-order warrant, we must be
able to trace the clap to its origin."

Many privacy and civil rights groups have raise
objections against such regulations.  Several court
challenges to existing clap export limits are well
under way, all citing 1st Amendment violations.
Lawyers for the Department of Commerce insists that the
limits have nothing to do with the 1st Amendment, and
that Commerce (and formerly, the Department of State)
has consistently approved all export requests for
printed claps.  "But real clapping is a mechanism, not
an element of speech; it truly enables or disables
devices, including bombs and weaponery.  There are
several industries where we not only allow, but
encourage the use of clap-on technology, but we simply
cannot allow arbitrary export of clap-on devices,
because terrorists could get their hands on it."

Sen. Jon Kyl, chair of the Judiciary subcommittee on
technology, terrorism, and government information,
opened today's hearing not by saying its purpose was to
discuss clapping in a balanced manner, but that he
wanted "to explore how clap-on is affecting the way we
deal with criminals, terrorists, and the security needs
of business." Then he talked at length about "criminals
and terrorists" using clap-on bombs, and child
pornographers "using clap-on to view pornographic
images of children that they transmit across the
Internet."

Dorothy Denning, a Georgetown University professor of
computer science, did testify.  Kyl made a point of
asking her if she still supported clap escrow systems
(two recent articles by Will Rodger and Simson
Garfinkel said she was changing her mind).  "I think
clap recovery offers a very attractive approach,"
Denning said.  What about export controls? "In the
absence of any controls, the problem for law
enforcement would get worse," she replied.

But when Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) asked if
Denning would support a *mandatory* clap escrow system,
the computer scientist said she wouldn't.  "No, because
we don't have a lot of experience we clap recovery
systems ... a lot of people are legitimately nervous."

Sen. Feinstein asked Dir. Freeh if such voluntary
systems would give the clapping criminal freedom to
simply turn off the features to support lawful clap
recovery.  Dir. Freeh replied that he was certainly
"warm" to the ideal of mandatory clap escrow, but
public opinion simply did not support it.

Recent FOIA'ed documents obtained by EPIC, a privacy
watchdog group, showed that, as far back as the Reagan
administration, clap-on technology was under the
scrutiny of the law enforcement and intelligence
agencies.  The memos include references to the Digital
Clapphony legislation, which was pushed through two
years ago by heavy last-minute behind-the-scene
lobbying in the congressional budget bill, and to the
proliferation of software clapping technology.

The administration refused to comment on the FOIA'ed
documents.

--------

Another one that couldn't wait until 4/1.  Apologies to
Declan to extremely "liberal" pilfering of his article.

And, of course, to the Clap On! lawyers: This is a
parody and a joke ... in case it was not clear.

Ern






From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Thu Sep  4 20:56:49 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:56:49 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709050350.XAA20506@www.video-collage.com>



At 03:01 PM 9/4/97 -0400, Ray Arachelian wrote:
>
>On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote:
>
>> 2) When you find one of these unattended critters along the road, wave
>> your hand in front of it at amazing speeds until it runs out of film.
>> (Ensure middle finger is extended.)
>
>Depends on the kind of camera.  If it's a video camera, you might be able
>to blind the bitch by blasting loads of IR at it which would be
>invisible to any donut munchers watching you....   Anyone know a source
>for big IR lamps?
>
>Any way to defeat film bearing cameras?

Better yet.  A carbon dioxide lazer.  Can be small and could probably be
rigged up to plug into the ciggarate lighter.  A focused, IR beam.

X-Ray tubes look simple enough.  Might want to invest in a little shielding
however.

If it is an old fashoned camera, you might be able to beat it with the same
countermeasures that mess up tv sets.  Heck, if the thing is connected with
any RF system for recording, you might anyway.  Just use a boosted CB to jam it.

If the system relies on the radar gun to activate it.  Invest in a jammer,
(only illegal in a few states, such as Oklahoma, which can use a
radar-detector so it really doesn't matter.)  Even if it doesn't work, (in
that the camera actually takes a picture) at least it should say that you
were going the speed limit.

The unit I saw advertised said that the gun wouldn't even display because it
wouldn't be able to get consistant readings.  But I have heard of people
setting transmitters on thier cars that broadcast at a certain frequency
which corresponded to a certain speed to those doppler guns.






From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Thu Sep  4 21:02:28 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:02:28 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
Message-ID: <199709050351.XAA20543@www.video-collage.com>



At 02:18 PM 9/4/97 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
...
>Depends if the camera is watched.  
...
>Spray paint cans on long poles (as used by agitprop graffiti artists) are
>useful.  (Under the cover of night...)
...
>An air rifle or pellet gun may be quiet enough to hit the camera from a
>distance, breaking the internals of the camera.  (A crossbow will work as
>well, but those may be best saved for those unmarked helicopters planting
>pot seeds on your property so the government can seize it later.)
>
...
>I am sure others will have useful suggestions.
...
Alan's mention of spray paint reminded me of paintball guns.  I'll leave the
specifics to you to work out.






From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Thu Sep  4 21:13:22 1997
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:13:22 +0800
Subject: 128-bit Netscape v4 for Linux???
Message-ID: <199709050355.WAA08121@manifold.algebra.com>



Hello,

I am wondering if Netscape Communicator version 4.* is available for Linux
with 128-bit encryption. Please email me or post a followup. Thank you.

	- Igor.






From enoch at zipcon.net  Thu Sep  4 21:16:09 1997
From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:16:09 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
Message-ID: <19970905040302.504.qmail@zipcon.net>



In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that
his country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to
look like suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.

Probably not a good time to visit the Zionist Entity. :)

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     enoch at zipcon.com   $    via Finger                       $
         {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}






From nicknoize at iname.com  Thu Sep  4 21:20:59 1997
From: nicknoize at iname.com (Nick)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:20:59 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: <340F81A6.68FE@iname.com>



There was a story a few weeks ago about how the various
federal bueracracies are not keen on giving their keys to ANY sort of 
"trusted third party" whether it is a psuedo private or overtly gov't 
entity.  They don't trust each other and are of course interested in 
being able to keep their own dirty little secrets to themselves.  
They seem to realize that the plan gives the administration and it's 
FBI, Stalanesque powers over every other dept, as well as the 
citezenry.

Then earlier this evening,an administration spokesman, issued a press 
statement distancing the administration from Freeh's testimony 
in  an effort to deflect some of  the  resulting  fallout. 



 



 
> The on-line NYT's claim today that everyone except the 
> administration is opposed to its crypto policy is daring
> hyperbole. What's your take on that?
> 
>   http://jya.com/crypto-tops.htm
> 
>






From shamrock at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 21:27:47 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:27:47 +0800
Subject: Administration backs away from FBI on crypto, by A.Pressman (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970904210752.0072b720@netcom10.netcom.com>



At 05:06 PM 9/4/97 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Clinton administration back away from FBI on encryption
>    By Aaron Pressman
>   WASHINGTON, Sept 4 (Reuter) - The Clinton administration's top official
>on encryption policy on Thursday backed away from a proposal by the head of
> the FBI to regulate for the first time computer coding products in the
>United States.
>   "What he proposed was not the administration's policy," Commerce
>Undersecretary William Reinsch told reporters during a break at a
>congressional hearing.

Of course it isn't. Not yet. This is called playing "good cop, bad cop".


--Lucky Green 
  PGP encrypted mail preferred.
  DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
  http://rc5.distributed.net/






From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 21:42:00 1997
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:42:00 +0800
Subject: standardizing encryption
Message-ID: <19970905042902.22589.qmail@hotmail.com>



Do you think do to use standardizing encryption?
I think It isn't too very good.

 

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From attila at hun.org  Thu Sep  4 22:11:25 1997
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:11:25 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
In-Reply-To: <19970905040302.504.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <199709050459.WAA14075@infowest.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 970904:2103 
    Mike Duvos  expostulated:

+In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
+Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that his
+country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to look like
+suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.

+Probably not a good time to visit the Zionist Entity. :)

    that only takes two at most --probably not a good idea to live
    in the top 98 metropolitan areas of the United States --or down
    wind from same.


  "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."     
        --Benjamin Franklin
 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQCVAwUBNA+RZL04kQrCC2kFAQHqpAP9FRVbpvbHCV/bAZWmrZ2jlSKRxZ5OhS18
GPkF0NcgmtSrzujv0w1pc9W9eijGQxYK6YEabACaLT89hhhpzGtnvJpEypnMJJo5
BnHUtf1x6zGMIjvG3Bt9XQ5bShFkmXc90/CSxulTaijo/0wO6fk3PvTjJwwMIO9O
wsmwdQO1mXA=
=wBzK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From tcmay at got.net  Thu Sep  4 22:22:55 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:22:55 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
In-Reply-To: <19970905040302.504.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 



At 9:03 PM -0700 9/4/97, Mike Duvos wrote:
>In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
>Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that
>his country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to
>look like suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.
>
>Probably not a good time to visit the Zionist Entity. :)
>

I'm surprised this wasn't hushed up. The U.S. intelligence community has
known this for a long time, and reports to Congress have alluded to this.
Still, the Administration's position has tended to be that this is not as
much of a threat as it seems (this despite the interception of at least one
nuke near the Iranian border with one of the former Soviet republics--the
nukes _not_ intercepted are presumably now in Iran, etc.).

Interestingly, my first conscious exposure to our National Crypto Czar,
David Aaron, was when I read his first novel, a terrorist thriller called
"State Scarlet" (as I recall). It was about German terrorists gaining
access to battlefield nukes. (Again, from my memory of reading this, circa
ten years ago.)

Stay away from soft targets (Tel Aviv, Haifa, the ZOG section of Jerusalem,
New York, Washington, and so on--Harbors (e.g., Haifa, NYC) are pretty
likely targets, due to the extreme ease of delivery). But also be prepared
for major disruptions and panic even if you are nowhere near the blast.

Have at least a month's supply of canned and dried goods (noodles, rice,
cereals, ramen, etc.), and at least 30 gallons of water per person, for a
month's supply of water. Tips on all sorts of such planning can be found in
misc.survivalism.

(Having experienced the 7.1 earthquake in northern California in 1989, a
few miles from the epicenter, the biggest hassle was having to leave my
home to get supplies I'd foolishly neglected to get. In a major disruption,
the long lines and stranded cars could be the greatest threat.)

And have at least one gun you are competent with. And emergency lanterns,
in case the grid goes down. And so on.

(I just added a Honda 2.5 KW generator to my setup. Not the largest in
wattage, but very high quality, and enough to run what I would want to run.)

Oh, and after such a shock to the system, expect martial law and all of our
worst fears about Freeh and his Federal Police cracking down on all
dissidents.

--Tim

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From amp at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 23:08:04 1997
From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:08:04 +0800
Subject: U.S. Prison Labor
In-Reply-To: <199709050033.SAA01538@infowest.com>
Message-ID: 



Linda's address has changed it's now lindat at snowhill.com


------------------------
  From: "Attila T. Hun" 
  Subject: Re: U.S. Prison Labor 
  Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 00:26:29 +0000 
  To: cypherpunks 


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> on or about 970904:1353 
>     bureau42 Anonymous Remailer  expostulated:
> 
> +Does anyone have pointers to information/details about U.S. prison
> +inmates being used as slave labour for international corporations?
>     
>     try:  Linda Thompson 
> 
>     she's been on the kick of prisoners' rights, slave labour, etc.
>     for some time.  Linda is a reactionary lawyer out of Indianpolis
>     (of all places) --she gets around though on a lot of causes. she's
>     not popular with the Feds over any number of issues, WACO for one, 
>     where she has took interesting film footage.
> 
>     I've duelled with Linda before; very articulate and very 
>     opinionated. usually good data, too.
> 
> 
>   "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."     

>         --Benjamin Franklin
>  ______________________________________________________________________
>  "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3i
> Charset: latin1
> Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be
> 
> iQCVAwUBNA9TIb04kQrCC2kFAQGHjAP+OaTc/8HDsU12eJsz/JdvVO19+L6RbLH6
> WJddcLjzk0fqUDYJI+UwKCToq2LSJ/gMvRcAetCZ8o9oHAM2sp6o1TtUJ2xIVMNO
> SwMt/WqhOaZ5XLZ+aJyfuLATp5JQEOmym8w9U/LoBN3J0n/C3hOA9yBmugQSTIEa
> dVSi7drxuOA=
> =3bD6
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp at pobox.com
Date: 09/05/97
Time: 00:47:01
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i



Here is the contents of a letter I sent to the San Jose Mercury News.  Any
bets on whether it gets published?

It is not surprising that FBI Director Louis Freeh wants to be able to read
every private communication in the country.  After all, he is director of
the government agency that rose to its current prominence because
Director-for-life J. Edgar Hoover used illegal wiretaps to blackmail
prominent politicians.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | The Internet was designed  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | to protect the free world  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | from hostile governments.  | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







From frantz at netcom.com  Thu Sep  4 23:53:21 1997
From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:53:21 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: <2bb492db8556543171a4af60b2cea4ed@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 



At 12:01 PM -0700 9/4/97, Ray Arachelian wrote:
>On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Anonymous wrote:
>
>> 2) When you find one of these unattended critters along the road, wave
>> your hand in front of it at amazing speeds until it runs out of film.
>> (Ensure middle finger is extended.)
>
>Depends on the kind of camera.  If it's a video camera, you might be able
>to blind the bitch by blasting loads of IR at it which would be
>invisible to any donut munchers watching you....   Anyone know a source
>for big IR lamps?
>
>Any way to defeat film bearing cameras?

Try near UV.  Goes thru glass and exposes film, but is stopped by the human
eye.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | The Internet was designed  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | to protect the free world  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz at netcom.com | from hostile governments.  | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA







From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Sep  5 15:06:43 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday.
Message-ID: 


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In utter anthesis of the way we normally do things at DCSB,


               The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents
                      An Utterly Unplanned
                          Last-Minute
                       Spur of the Moment
                      Boston Pub-Crawling

                   Celebration of the Expiration
                             of the
                 Diffie-Hellman Public Key Patent



                    Saturday, September 6, 1997
                     3pm - Whenever we give up

                   at The William Braddock Cafe,
                        A.K.A  Doyles's

                      3484 Washington Street,
                      Boston (Jamaica Plain)


This all started out several months ago in my head as a spiffy whoop-de-do
black-tie webcasted countdown with sponsors and free champaigne and a
groaning buffet and penguin waiters and a cash bar at the Harvard Club with
a donation to a worthy cause, but, well, we couldn't get a time on the
patent, so the countdown was out, and we couldn't get sponsors (remembering
the last cocktail party, maybe there's a reason?), so the free bubbly and
munchies was out, PETA got us on the way we wanted to make the penguins
groan, and we couldn't think of a worthy enough cause, so that was out,
and, finally, the Club is closed on Saturday, anyway. Feh. So, we're
losers, okay? What can we say? Shoot us, already...

Meanwhile, we're sitting here watching the Bay Area, and Austin, do
something, and then Declan and the Washingtoonians do something, but the
*final* straw came when Peter Wayner calls up and says:

"WELL???? Are you guys in Boston going to DO something? I'm gonna file a
story in the Times tomorrow that SAYS you are..."

And so, bowing to the pressure of the media culture in memory of recent
events on the continent , (and my own cravings for porkchops and
Pickwick Ale, ) I, Robert Hettinga, by the power vested in me by
the August (or maybe it was July) membership of the Society as Their
Moderator, do hereby unilaterally declare an Official Social Function of
the Digital Commerce Society of Boston to occur at Doyle's, 3484 Washington
Street, Jamaica Plain, Boston, tomorrow, Septmber 6, 1997, at 3PM Eastern
Standard Time, my God have mercy on our souls.

Bring your own money. :-). Be prepared to buy the moderator a drink.

If Doyle's gets boring, we'll crawl elsewhere, but only after an hour has
elapsed. If Doyle's isn't boring, we'll drink ourselves under the table, or
at least face-down on it, or until we're shown the door, or maybe until our
wives come and take us home, or something.

And, so, to paraphrase that great statesman, one David 'Davey' Crockett:
"Y'all can go to Hell. [or, Washington, or the Valley, or Texas, as the
case may be...] *I'm* going to Doyle's."

See you there.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
(Im)Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

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Charset: noconv

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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Fri Sep  5 02:05:09 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:05:09 +0800
Subject: standardizing encryption
In-Reply-To: <19970905042902.22589.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:

> Do you think do to use standardizing encryption?
> I think It isn't too very good.

Rather then being not too good, it is infact neccery.  Unless we have a
standard, secure encrytion system, cryto is next to useless.

What is the use of encrypting your email if the recpent can't decode it.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett

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Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNA+NeKQK0ynCmdStAQGETAP/ZkR38yTZB3TIySLcvHIS1/RTF1WJzn9E
c9qgK6/EzqQUCLrwmHYLfANmOiifcREwemZq9xplsusisDWNXWcGdUcjtVXYWByn
fovjh0iqnhD2Dap8GYO3lMXQm3y+Wju2gsiALIoqCijU6mpFJ6gd5u3mSI2K4AwC
Z+oYzcKFT9c=
=9Dbz
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From toto at sk.sympatico.ca  Fri Sep  5 02:08:54 1997
From: toto at sk.sympatico.ca (Toto)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:08:54 +0800
Subject: Di and Dodi Run Over A Land Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <340FC8CC.1F50@sk.sympatico.ca>



Vin Suprynowicz wrote:
>     The campaign to ban land mines

Vin,
  I have long held to the "80/20 Asshole Theory."
  There are many people in life whose circumstances of birth, heredity, 
environmental influences and social status would, with everything being
equal, be destined to turn out 80% Asshole and 20% Decent Person, or
vice-versa.

  Since we can never really know what the life and circumstances of 
another person has truly encompassed, we can never be certain, upon
meeting someone who is 60% Asshole, whether they were destined to be
80% Asshole, and raised themself, or whether they were destined to be
20% Asshole, and lost major ground, becoming 80% Asshole, instead.

  I understand the perspective from which you write about Princess
Diana, but I cannot help but view her from the perspective of an
upper class young woman who was subjected to the anal-retentive
mind-programming-control of the monarchy and still managed to
raise her children in a wider world than their predecessors had been 
exposed to.
  I consider myself to be an anarchist, libertarian free-thinker and
a man of reason, but I also realize that if I were crowned King of
England tomorrow, that I might be offended if you didn't bow three
times when you entered a room where my divine presence was present.

  I truly believe that the best one can hope for in life is to raise
their children to go beyond the boundaries that limit their parents.
Diana's destiny within the monarchy was to become programmed to fit
into the narrow confines of the role prepared for her. Perhaps if her
Puppet Masters had been more patient, she may have become enslaved
according to the wishes of her superiors, but the fact is that she
was buffeted by trials and tribulations that resulted from her not
going quietly into the dark night that the monarchy had planned for
her.

  Diana used the position that was bestowed upon her to give comfort
and hope to the halt, the lame, and the downtrodden. Did she do it
out of self-serving egoism, or an attempt to gain recognition and 
fame as a humanitarian?
  I don't know, I don't care, and it is really none of my business.
What *is* my business is to view my fellow man/woman and perceive
if they are lifted up or further downtrodden by their interactions
with myself and others. I have seen the faces of the AIDS children
that she touched, when no one else would, and the lepers whom she
shook hands with, when others were afraid to do so, and I have seen
the light that she spread among those whom society had cast aside.

You said:
  "They are, after all, born into a society where a person with the
wrong accent, or skin color, can never hope to do more than dream of
a royal marriage, and dinner at the Ritz."

  You are wrong. Even the peasant and the imprisoned can dream the
dreams that come from the fairy tales that uplift us and give us
hope, however unrealistic it may be. And, even if it is one in a
million, someone will have that dream come true.
  Yes, in reality, the story of Diana, the commoner turned Princess,
was overblown. No, you are doing the downtrodden no favor by trying
to point that out to them.
  Why? Because no one will grasp the golden ring if no one tries. 
No one will rise above their predestined station in life if no one
believes that it is indeed possible to do so.

  Perhaps Diana was a priveleged, rich cunt who had it 'better' than
those whom she condescended to 'bless' with her presence and her
attention. But she touched the untouchables and she lifted those who
had been held down, and those whose lives she touched benefitted 
from her presence, no matter what her motivations or intentions.

  You write that Diana's campaign against the use of land mines is
an unrealistic attempt to negate the cheap and effective defense
of the poorer countries. Perhaps what was needed was for her to
have the input of someone such as yourself who understands the need
for cheap and effective self-defence, so that she could concentrate
her efforts on removing landmines that are no longer needed, and
preventing the dispersal of landmines which are not truly needed 
for self-defence, but are only serving as 'toys for boys' who want
to play soldier.

  As far as I am concerned, you and Diana both have something very
important in common--the world is a better place for your being here.
  We need more Vin's, so that there is someone to remind the bleeding
hearts that weakness and capitulation can cost more lives and loss of
freedom than are gained by seeking an unbalanced 'peace'.
  We need more Diana's, so that there is someone to remind the warriors
that indiscriminate use of weaponry that is not essential may result
in the loss of lives of the innocent, rather than the elimination of
the threat that must be defended against.

  I guess what I am saying is that it no more matter to me whether 
Diana is a fraudulent invention of the media, than it matters to me
whether you are a carpetbagger riding on the coat tails of the
libertarian movement.
  What matters to me is that Diana inspires others to treat the
untouchables as fellow human beings, and that you remind me to
carry a big stick to beat the fuckers with if I find them sneaking
up behind me.

  Besides, anyone who gets whacked out by the monarchy can't be all
that bad... 
{:>}------< (Help! They knocked me down, and cut off my arms!)

Toto
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix
"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld
"The Final Frontier"
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn






From declan at pathfinder.com  Fri Sep  5 02:12:43 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:12:43 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
In-Reply-To: <19970905040302.504.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 




On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Mike Duvos wrote:

> In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
> Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that
> his country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to
> look like suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.
> 
> Probably not a good time to visit the Zionist Entity. :)

Or live in Washington, DC! (Or New York, where I'll be spending part of
next week.)

It's about time to buy a farm in West Virginia and telecommute...

-Declan









From vipul at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 02:52:51 1997
From: vipul at pobox.com (Vipul Ved Prakash)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:52:51 +0800
Subject: Don't ask for permission
In-Reply-To: <199709012034.VAA07567@server.test.net>
Message-ID: <199709041956.TAA00441@fountainhead.net>



Adam Back wrote:

> Depends on your definition of openly.  Jerome Thorel, at the time a
> French free-lance journalist, interviewed the head of SCSSI, he asked
> "can individuals use PGP?" and the answer was "if you asked us for
> permission we'd say no, but if you use it we won't do anything about
> it".  Jerome had this revelvation as his .sig for a while.

Exactly what happens in India. Dont ask for permission, ask for 
forgiveness. The govt doesn't want to sanction it. This could 
be becuase they might want to declare usage illegal at a latter time, 
or currently dont have the infrastructure to tap into people's 
communication, or the investment in such infrastructure is 
not justified at this time or they realize how entirely stupid 
it would be to legally restrict crypto usage. Whatever such 
a stand implies it manages to keep venture capitalists away from 
crypto products. 

best,
Vipul

-- 

Vipul Ved Prakash                 | - Electronic Security & Crypto 
vipul at pobox.com 	          | - Web Objects 
91 11 2233328                     | - PERL Development 
198 Madhuban IP Extension         | - Linux & Open Systems 
Delhi, INDIA 110 092              | - Networked Virtual Spaces






From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Fri Sep  5 04:33:13 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:33:13 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
In-Reply-To: <19970905040302.504.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 



Prof. Mike Duvos  writes:

>
> In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
> Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that
> his country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to
> look like suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.

I hope one of them is used to nuke Washington, Dc.

> Probably not a good time to visit the Zionist Entity. :)

Never a good time.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps






From gwb at www.gwb.com.au  Fri Sep  5 19:45:18 1997
From: gwb at www.gwb.com.au (Global Web Builders)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:45:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's One Nation news letter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970906122754.2c1fad08@mail.pronet.net.au>


IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THE MAILING LIST PLEASE RESPOND WITH "PLEASE
REMOVE" IN THE SUBJECT LINE.

NO NEWSLETTERS ARE SENT OUT WITHOUR A PRIOR REQUEST BEING RECEIVED.

____________________________________________________________________________
_________

Issue 1.2

6th September 1997
nsw

Dear supporter, 

Firstly I would like to thank you all for the excellent feedback that I have
been getting through the Internet. For your information nearly 150,000
visits have been recorded on One Nation web sites since April this year -
that is over 1,000 a day!

Secondly, a very big thank you for those who have offered to make donations
through email. We have had donations of up to $1,000 to Pauline Hanson's One
Nation through the Internet this month - a very big help as we move towards
the next federal election. For those who have requested advice on how to
offer financial support please send your cheque made out to Pauline Hanson's
One Nation and post your cheque with your details to:

National Director, Pauline Hanson's One Nation, P.O. Box 2000, Manly, NSW, 2095

The Internet is proving to be a very valuable tool in communicating what I
say, not what the media would have you believe that I say. It is also your
opportunity to communicate your concerns to me. 

Pauline Hanson's One Nation branches are now opening at the phenomenal rate
of ten a week. For all those involved a big thank you. We are starting to
get things moving for the future of our Australia - One Nation.

For those of you who are not aware I will not be standing for a Senate seat,
even though the Australian Electoral Commission cut my federal seat of Oxley
in half - right through the middle of Ipswich. I believe that the only way
that can I continue to play a leading role for the party and for Australia
is by staying on as a federal member of parliament. As yet, I have not
decided whether to stand in the revised seat of Oxley or to stand for the
seat of Blair.

For those of you wanting to join your local branch, I will shortly be
putting up the URL for key contact details on-line on a state by state
basis. I apologise for the delay in providing these details, because of our
phenomenal growth, in the meantime please feel free to contact the national
headquarters of Pauline Hanson's One Nation in Sydney at (02) 9976 0283 for
information.

Key Internet addresses:

The Hanson Phenomenon:
http://www.gwb.com.au/hanson.html

Pauline Hanson's One Nation press releases:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press

Here is a small extract from some words by a Canberra supporter:

One nation uniting the continent, One nation, proud and free,
One nation for all of Australia, One nation for you and me.

Pauline Hanson's One Nation

Pauline Hanson 






From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Sep  5 05:08:34 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:08:34 +0800
Subject: Freeh Testimony
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970905114426.0075d948@pop.pipeline.com>



Thanks to Declan McCullagh we offer FBI Director
Freeh's September 3 testimony to the Judiciary 
subcommittee chaired by Senator Kyl:

   http://jya.com/fbi-gak.txt  (58K)






From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Sep  5 05:13:58 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:13:58 +0800
Subject: Junger v. DoC Docs
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970905115647.00755b60@pop.pipeline.com>



We offer recent exchanges between Peter Junger's
attorney and BXA on the several encryption classification 
requests Peter described here a few days ago, including 
"twiddle," "fiddle," non-US PGP, ROT13, Adam Back's 
3-line of Perl RSA, Paul Leyland's one-time pad, RC2 and 
RC4, and crypto links to foreign sites:

   http://jya.com/pdj2.htm

Peter's message on this is at:

   http://jya.com/pdj-update.htm

And the original Junger v. DoS (now Junger v. DoC) 
case filings:

   http://jya.com/pdj.htm







From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Sep  5 05:18:30 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:18:30 +0800
Subject: Wayner on Crypto Mimicry
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970905120120.0075023c@pop.pipeline.com>



The New York Times, CyberTimes 

September 5, 1997

Behind Encryption Debate: 
Using a Mimicry Applet 

By PETER WAYNER

What is the true meaning of a message? This is the question that
Louis J. Freeh, the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, would
like every Internet service provider to start wondering. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Related Article
Encryption Tops Wide-Ranging Net Agenda in Congress
(September 4, 1997) 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


In testimony before a Senate subcommittee on Wednesday, Freeh suggested that
the companies carrying the e-mail of the country should be able to provide a
way "for the immediate, lawful decryption of the communications or the
electronic information once that information is found by a judgeto be in
furtherance of a criminal activity or a national security matter." 

The only problem is that data is so easy to mutate that it is hard to
determine what is the true message. Even after discounting the jokes about
the doublespeak of politicians or the beautiful lies that lovers spin to
seduce, there are deeper questions of whether it is ever possible to find
the correct message in data. 

This applet shows how data can be mutated into innocent-sounding plaintext
with the push of a button. In this case, the destination is a voiceover from
a hypothetical baseball game between teams named the Blogs and the Whappers. 

The information is encoded by choosing the words, the players and the action
in the game. In some cases, one message will lead to a string of homeruns,
and in other cases a different message will strike out three players in a
row. See the FAQ for more information. 



The applet takes a few minutes to load. When it is ready, you'll see three
text-input windows. The first window is where you type the message that you
want the applet to encode. The second, larger window is where the
mimicry-encoded message appears. 

Mimicry can be reversed by pushing the second button. The output is
replicated at the bottom. Remember that any error in the text can mess up
the result. 

There are plenty of limitations to this system. It only sends uppercase
letters and spaces. Lowercase letters are converted to uppercase, and
anything else is converted into a space. 





How do I use to send "innocent" messages? 

Type your message into the top window, push the first button and then cut
the blather out of the second box. Most of the new browsers will let you do
this, but some older browsers don't have this capability. Upgrade to
Netscape Communicator 4.0 or Microsoft's Internet Explorer 3.0 for this
feature. 

To unscramble the "innocent" message, the receiver needs to call up this
page and paste your message into the second box and then push the second
button. The hidden message will appear in the bottom window. 







From 37166040 at usa.net  Fri Sep  5 21:08:16 1997
From: 37166040 at usa.net (37166040 at usa.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:08:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Buying All Gold & Silver Coins, Highest Prices Paid
Message-ID: <272773a5556666a2222>


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From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Sep  5 06:19:10 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:19:10 +0800
Subject: High Profile Detainee Seeks Legal Help
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: evian at escape.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date:         Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:56:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
Sender:       Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
From:         Evian Sim 
Subject:      High Profile Detainee Seeks Legal Help
To:           CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM

September 3, 1997

Mr. Kevin Mitnick has been detained in Federal custody without bail on
computer "hacking" allegations for over thirty months.  Having no financial
resources, Mr. Mitnick has been appointed counsel from the Federal Indigent
Defense Panel.  As such, Mr. Mitnick's representation is limited; his
attorney is not permitted to assist with civil actions, such as filing a
Writ of Habeas Corpus.

For the past two years, Mr. Mitnick has attempted to assist in his own
defense by conducting legal research in the inmate law library at the
Metropolitan Detention Center (hereinafter "MDC") in Los Angeles,
California.  Mr. Mitnick's research includes reviewing court decisions for
similar factual circumstances which have occurred in his case.  MDC prison
officials have been consistently hampering Mr. Mitnick's efforts by denying
him reasonable access to law library materials.  Earlier this year, Mr.
Mitnick's lawyer submitted a formal request to Mr. Wayne Siefert, MDC
Warden, seeking permission to allow his client access to the law library on
the days set aside for inmates needing extra law library time.  The Warden
refused.

In August 1995, Mr. Mitnick filed an administrative remedy request with the
Bureau of Prisons complaining that MDC policy in connection with inmate
access to law library materials does not comply with Federal rules and
regulations.  Specifically, the Warden established a policy for MDC inmates
that detracts from Bureau of Prison's policy codified in the Code of
Federal Regulations.

Briefly, Federal law requires the Warden to grant additional law library
time to an inmate who has an "imminent court deadline".  The MDC's policy
circumvents this law by erroneously interpreting the phrase "imminent court
deadline" to include other factors, such as, whether an inmate exercises
his right to assistance of counsel, or the type of imminent court deadline.
 For example, MDC policy does not consider detention (bail), motion, status
conference, or sentencing hearings as imminent court deadlines for
represented inmates.  MDC officials use this policy as a tool to subject
inmates to arbitrary and capricious treatment.  It appears MDC policy in
connection with inmate legal activities is inconsistent with Federal law
and thereby affects the substantial rights of detainees which involve
substantial liberty interests.

In June 1997, Mr. Mitnick finally exhausted administrative remedies with
the Bureau of Prisons.  Mr. Mitnick's only avenue of vindication is to seek
judicial review in a Court of Law.  Mr. Mitnick wishes to file a Writ of
Habeas Corpus challenging his conditions of detention, and a motion to
compel Federal authorities to follow their own rules and regulations.

Mr. Mitnick is hoping to find someone with legal experience, such as an
attorney or a law student willing to donate some time to this cause to
insure fair treatment for everyone, and to allow detainees to effectively
assist in their own defense without "Government" interference.  Mr. Mitnick
needs help drafting a Habeas Corpus petition with points and authorities to
be submitted by him pro-se.  His objective is to be granted reasonable
access to law library materials to assist in his own defense.

If you would like to help Kevin, please contact him at the following address:

        Mr. Kevin Mitnick
        Reg. No. 89950-012
        P.O. Box 1500
        Los Angeles, CA 90053-1500

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Sep  5 06:19:24 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:19:24 +0800
Subject: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:58:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter F Cassidy 
To: dcsb at ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Peter F Cassidy 


Friends,

The campaign to bring all communications technologies under state/military
control is progressing almost exactly as planned. On my desk is the Jan.
1992 memorandum from Brent Scowcroft, former national security advisor to
Bush, outlining the digital telephony/crypto control strategy. The
president, Scowcroft wrote in the memorandum, had advised:

"Justice should go ahead now to seek a legislative fix to the digital
telephony problem, and all parties should prepare to follow through on the
encryption problem in about a year. Success with digital telephony will
lock in one major objective; we will have a beachhead we can exploit for
the encryption fix; and the encryption access options can be developed
more thoroughly in the meantime."

Digital Telephony legislation was passed in October of 1994 - after the
directors of the NSA and FBI visisted senators who were sitting on it and
placed holds on it - one for idealogical reasons, the other for
horsetrading later in the session. Within days the holds were removed, the
legislation flew through both houses in voice votes, if memory serves, and
Clinton, a war protester who has become a virtual puppet of the military
intelligence system in communications policy, signed it about a week
later. Everyone has a telephone yet the opposition couldn't muster enough
popular dissent to crush the legislation. This makes me fear for the
future of crypto, the conscious users of which define a much smaller
universe than telephone users.

Most interestingly, the FBI didn't even have real facts on wiretaps to
prove its case. A recent academic study indicates that the wiretapping
stats that the FBI used to "prove" its case - the absolute necessity of
wiretapping - were in large part falsified. (Starting in the early 90s,
requests for wiretapping suddenly shot up, while, if you check later, the
numbers of executions of the orders and subsequent arrests and
prosecutions stayed flat.)



PFC



>
> All encryption products sold or distributed in the U.S.
> must have a key escrow backdoor "like an airbag in a car,"
> law enforcement agents advised a Senate panel this
> afternoon.
>
> FBI Director Louis Freeh also told a Senate Judiciary
> subcommittee that "network service providers should be
> required to have some immediate decryption ability
> available" permitting agents to readily descramble
> encrypted messages that pass through their system.
>
> This marks the most aggressive push to date for
> mandatory domestic key escrow (or "key recovery"),
> which means someone else other than the recipient can
> decipher messages you send out. Now, the easiest way
> to win such a political tussle in Washington is to
> control the terms of the debate. And nobody
> understands that rule better than Sen. Jon Kyl
> (R-Arizona), chair of the Judiciary subcommittee on
> technology, terrorism, and government information.
>
> Kyl opened today's hearing not by saying its purpose
> was to discuss crypto in a balanced manner, but that
> he wanted "to explore how encryption is affecting the
> way we deal with criminals, terrorists, and the
> security needs of business." Then he talked at length
> about "criminals and terrorists" using crypto, and
> child pornographers "using encryption to hide
> pornographic images of children that they transmit
> across the Internet."
>
> Kyl also stacked the three panels. Out of seven
> witnesses, five were current or former law enforcement
> agents. No privacy or civil liberties advocates
> testified. Some companies including FedEx apparently
> dropped out when told they'd have to pay lip service
> to key escrow if they wanted to speak.
>
> Dorothy Denning, a Georgetown University professor of
> computer science, did testify. Kyl made a point of
> asking her if she still supported key escrow systems
> (two recent articles by Will Rodger and Simson
> Garfinkel said she was changing her mind). "I think
> key recovery offers a very attractive approach,"
> Denning said. What about export controls? "In the
> absence of any controls, the problem for law
> enforcement would get worse," she replied.
>
> But when Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) asked if
> Denning would support a *mandatory* key escrow system,
> the computer scientist said she wouldn't. "No, because
> we don't have a lot of experience we key recovery
> systems... a lot of people are legitimately nervous."
>
> (Keep in mind that although Feinstein supposedly
> represents Silicon Valley, she's no friend of high
> tech firms. She opposes lifting export controls; in
> fact, she says that "nothing other than some form of
> mandatory key recovery really does the job" of
> preventing crime. Of course, Feinstein doesn't have a
> clue. She talks about whether businesses would want "a
> hard key or digital key or a key infrastructure." Yes,
> folks, this is in fact meaningless blather.)
>
> Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy
> Information Center in Washington, DC, says, "Simply
> stated, the Senate train is headed in the wrong
> direction. But of course this doesn't answer the
> question of what will ultimately be resolved by
> Congress? There's a very popular measure in the House
> right now that's heading in a different direction."
>
> Rotenberg is talking about Rep. Bob Goodlatte's SAFE
> bill, which is much more pro-business than S.909,
> the McCain-Kerrey Senate bill that Kyl supports. Now,
> S.909 doesn't mandate key recovery; it only strongly
> encourages it by wielding the federal government's
> purchasing power to jumpstart a key recovery
> infrastructure.
>
> But Kyl would go further. At a recent Heritage
> Foundation roundtable on encryption, I asked him, "Why
> not make key recovery technology mandatory -- after
> all, terrorists, drug kingpins and other criminals
> won't use it otherwise. Kyl's response? Not that it
> would be a violation of Constitutional due process and
> search and seizure protections or a bad idea. Instead,
> he told me he simply didn't have enough votes...
>
> -Declan
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
>
> -----------------
> Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
> e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
> The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
>
>
>
> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
> "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".
>


For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From list1 at maxpol.com  Fri Sep  5 21:25:09 1997
From: list1 at maxpol.com (List1)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Read This Twice!!
Message-ID: <199707141441.KAA07534@maxpol.com>



    Read This Twice!!

The following opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a
look at.  It can be started with VERY MINIMAL outlay!

Read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!...

The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my
fingers.  Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave
some thought and study to it.

My name is Christopher Erickson.  Two years ago, the corporation I
worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was
eliminated.  After unproductive job interviews,  I decided to open my
own business.  Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial
problems.  I owed my family, friends, and creditors over $35,000.  The
economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to
make ends meet.  I had to refinance and borrow against my home to
support my family and struggling business.  I truly believe it was
wrong for me to be in debt like this.  AT THAT MOMENT something
significant happened in my life and I am writing to share my experience
in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER....FINANCIALLY!!!

In mid-December, I received this program via email.  Six months prior
to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on
various business opportunities.  All of the programs I received, in my
opinion, were not cost effective.  They were either too difficult for
me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk
to see if they worked or not.  One claimed I'd make a million dollars
in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it.

But like I was saying, in December of '96 I received this program.  I
didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing
list.  THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!!  After reading it several times, to
make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. I could invest
 as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further in debt.  After I got 
a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back.  After
determining that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided
"WHY NOT".

Initially I sent out 10,000 emails.  It only cost me about $15.00 for
my time on-line.  The great thing about email is that I didn't need any
money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfill my
orders.  I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off.

A good  email extracting and mass mail program can be found at:
http://www.colba.net

I paid off  ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car.  Please take
time to read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!
Remember,  it wont work  if you don't try it.  This program does work,
but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rules of not trying to
place your name in a different place.  It doesn't work, you'll lose out
on a  lot  of  money!  REPORT  #2  explains this.  Always follow the
guarantee, 15 to 20  orders  for REPORT #1, and 100 or more orders for
REPORT #2 and you will make  $50,000 or more in 20 to 90 days.  I AM
LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS !!!

If you are a fellow business owner and you are in financial trouble
like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a
sign.  I DID!

                                        Sincerely,
                                        Christopher Erickson


"THREW IT AWAY"

"I  had  received  this program before.  I  threw  it away, but later
wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no idea
who to contact to get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed
another copy of the program.  Eleven months passed, then it came.  I
DIDN'T throw this one away.  I made $41,000 on the first try."

                                        Dawn W., Evansville, IN


A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM

You have just received information that can give you financial freedom
for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF
EFFORT."  You can make more money in the next few months than you have
ever imagined.

Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED.  Do not change it in any way.
It works exceedingly well as it is now.  Remember to email a copy of
this exciting program to everyone that you can think of.  One of the
people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on
every one of them!.  Remember though, the more you send out, the more
potential customers you will reach.

HERE'S HOW THIS PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$

Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and
we'll assume you and all those involved send out 2,000 programs each.
Let's also assume that the mailing receives a .5% response.  Using a
good list the response could be much better.  Also many people will
send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000.  But
continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs.  With a
5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1.  Those 10 people
respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000.  Out
of those .5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2.  Those 100 mail
out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000.  The .5% response to
that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3.  Those 1,000 send out 2,000
programs each for a 2,000,000 total.  The .5% response to that is
10,000 orders for REPORT #4.  That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you.
CASH!!!!  Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5000 +
$50,000 for a total of $55,550!!!!

REMEMBER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU
MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM!
DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE
OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY 2,000. Believe
me, many people will do that and more!  By the way, your cost to participate
in this is practically nothing.  You obviously already have an Internet
connection and email is FREE!!!  REPORT#3 will show you the best
methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists.

THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY

It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best
of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail.  If
you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been
waiting for, THIS IS IT!  Simply follow the instructions, and your
dream will come true.  This multi-level email order marketing program
works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME.  Email is the sales tool of the
future.  Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of
advertising NOW!!  

MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability.  It is
being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research
and The Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all
goods and services will be sold throughout Multi-level Methods by the
mid to late 1990's.  This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the
500,000 millionaires in the US, 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the
last several years in MLM.  Moreover, statistics show 45 people become
millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing.

This is the GREATEST Multi-level Mail Order Marketing anywhere:

Order all four 4 REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER.  Do this
           by ordering the REPORT from each of the four 4 names listed
           on the next page.  For each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a SELF-
           ADDRESSED, STAMPED envelope  (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the
           person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT.  International orders
           should also include $1 extra for postage.  It is essential
           that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report requested
           to the person you are ordering from.  You will need ALL FOUR
           4 REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them.
           DO NOT alter the names or sequence other than what the
           instructions say.  IMPORTANT:  Always provide same-day
           service on all orders.

 Replace  the  name  and  address  under  REPORT #1  with
           yours,  moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2.
           Drop  the  name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3,
           moving the one that was there to REPORT #4.  The name and
           address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list
           and this party  is  no doubt on the way to the bank.  When
           doing   this,   make   certain   you  type  the  names  and
           addresses ACCURATELY!  DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT
           POSITIONS!!!

Having made the required changes in the NAME list, save it
           as a text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with
           whatever email program you like.  Again, REPORT #3 will tell
           you the best methods of bulk emailing and acquiring email
           lists.

Email a copy of the entire program (all of this is very
           important) to everyone whose address you can get your hands
           on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage
           them to take  advantage of this  fabulous  money-making
           opportunity.  That's what I did.  And they love me now, more
           than ever.  Then, email to anyone and everyone!  Use your
           imagination!  You can get email addresses from companies on
           the Internet who specialize in email mailing lists.  These
           are very cheap, 100,000 addresses for around $35.00.

IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so
always request a FRESH, NEW list. You will find out where to purchase
these lists when you order the four 4 REPORTS.

REQUIRED REPORTS

***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE
AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE
SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER

________________________________________________________
REPORT #1
"HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:

MaxPol.com
C.P. 503
St-Jean-sur-Richelieu
QC, Canada  J3B 6Z8
________________________________________________________
REPORT #2
"MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

ESB Comm
1213 D University Terrace
Blacksburg, VA 24060
________________________________________________________
"SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

Generation X Communications
216 Janie Lane
Blacksburg, VA 24060
________________________________________________________
REPORT #4
"EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

LaChance Information Systems
PO Box 308
Placida, FL  33946-0308
________________________________________________________


Very few people reach financial independence, because when
opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it.  It is much easier to say
"NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer.  Will
YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it?
If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will
change.  Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity.
If you have any questions, please feel free to write to the sender of
this information.  You will get a prompt and informative reply.

My method is simple.  I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that
costs me pennies to produce and email.  I should also point out that
this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money.
This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam.  At times you have probably
received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting
NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever!  Not only are chain letters
illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite
unattractive.

You are offering a legitimate product to your people.  After they
purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them.
It's simple free enterprise.  As you learned from the enclosed material,
the PRODUCT is a series of four 4 FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS.  The
information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making
your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful
to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead.
You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which
will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program.  The
concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be
reproduced at a local copy center for a cost off about 3 cents a copy.
Best wishes with the program and Good Luck!


Send for your four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the
orders start coming in.  When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out
the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws.  Title
18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that:  "A PRODUCT OR
SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED."

WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE:

1.      Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire.

2.      Get a post office box (preferred).

3.      Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember,
        your name and address go next to REPORT #1 and the others all
        move down one, with the fourth one being bumped OFF the list.

4.      Obtain as many email addresses as possible to send until you
        receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3.

5.      Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out.  The
        more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money
        you will make.

6.      After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders.

7.      Copy the four 4 REPORTS so you are able to send them out as
        soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE
        SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU RECEIVE!

YOUR GUARANTEE

The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this:  you must
receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1.  This is a must!!!  If you don't
within two weeks, email out more programs until you do.  Then a couple
of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if
you don't, send out more programs until you do.  Once you have received
100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back
and  relax,  because  YOU  ARE  GOING TO  MAKE  AT  LEAST  $50,000.
Mathematically  it  is  a  proven  guarantee.   Of  those  who  have
participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES-ALL have
reached their $50,000 goal.  Also, remember, every time your name is
moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can
keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you.
IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY, IT IS!!!








From declan at well.com  Fri Sep  5 08:16:39 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:16:39 +0800
Subject: Stupid Senate Tricks, from The Netly News
Message-ID: 





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:50:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: fight-censorship-announce at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Stupid Senate Tricks, from The Netly News


**********

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1344,00.html
   
The Netly News Network (http://netlynews.com/)
September 5, 1997

Stupid Senate Tricks        
by Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com)

        What do you get when you mix discussions of high technology and
   the Internet with the weak minds of the aging techno-half-wits in the
   U.S. Congress? Answer: a screwball dialogue that veers haphazardly
   between the idiotic and inane.    
   
        From the infamous father of the Communications Decency Act to the
   California senator who confuses computer mice with real rodents,
   Washington lawmakers rarely have a clue about the technology they try 
   to regulate. Now that Congress is back in session, the lawmakers will
   once again be muddling through press conferences and briefings with
   the help of hovering aides. But sometimes they try to make a go of it
   on their own -- and then the results aren't pretty.

[...]

        Both houses of Congress have their share of boobs. Rep. Sonny
   Bono (R-Calif.) -- once dubbed the dumbest member of Congress by
   Washingtonian magazine -- showed up at the National Press Club in July
   1996 ostensibly to talk about copyright and the Net. Instead, he
   rambled incoherently about Cher ("I hope she doesn't put on any more
   tattoos") and sang "I've Got You, Babe" to the audience. Bono's public
   relations director once told the Los Angeles Times that when her boss 
   was mayor of Palm Springs, she had to rewrite his agendas into script 
   form: "For call to order, I wrote 'sit.' For salute the flag, I wrote
   'stand up, face flag, mouth words.'" (Yet Bono was the only member of
   Congress with the balls to challenge FBI opposition to pro-privacy
   legislation at a hearing earlier this year. Go figure.)    
   
[...]








From tcmay at got.net  Fri Sep  5 08:53:45 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:53:45 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
In-Reply-To: <19970905040302.504.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 



At 2:06 AM -0700 9/5/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Mike Duvos wrote:
>
>> In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
>> Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that
>> his country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to
>> look like suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.
>>
>> Probably not a good time to visit the Zionist Entity. :)
>
>Or live in Washington, DC! (Or New York, where I'll be spending part of
>next week.)
>
>It's about time to buy a farm in West Virginia and telecommute...

Or buy the farm in Northern Virginia-Maryland?

--Tim

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From sunder at brainlink.com  Fri Sep  5 08:54:53 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:54:53 +0800
Subject: EMP & Cars (fwd)
Message-ID: 



Found this on the seclist:

10)From: Duece6x6 at aol.com
Subject: EMP
 
There has been quite an interest in EMP. Very simply EMP is a broadband
electrical pulse. A friend of mine worked for the GOV on EMP test
projects. I have some of the wooden nuts and bolts from the antenna towers
and the wooden runways used to taxi aircraft for testing. He related EMP
pulses to a near miss lightning strike. As far as vehicle disabling, There
are claims that auto manufactures have built in a shut down frequency into
the computers in certain vehicles. We wound a large coil on a carpet paper
tube and put an oscillator on it and it would flood a vehicles electrical
system to shut it down, but it was huge. The easiest way to learn about
EMP is to find the International TESLA society web site and interpret the
information there.  He was the pioneer of EMP. 
 
THE DUECE







From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Sep  5 08:57:55 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:57:55 +0800
Subject: DCSB: A Future Garrisoned
Message-ID: 




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah at mail.shipwright.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:55:11 -0400
To: dcsb at ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce at ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: A Future Garrisoned
Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----



               The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents
                          Peter Cassidy
                     Author, Technology Analyst

                        A Future Garrisoned:
                    How Long Can Military Fiat
               Control Digital Commerce Technologies?



                      Tuesday, October 7, 1997
                             12 - 2 PM
                 The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                   One Federal Street, Boston, MA




It is the wonderful American expectation of the new that informs a
belief that what is technically possible is inevitable. Peter Cassidy's
presentation - "A Future Garrisoned: How Long Can Military Fiat Control
Digitial Commerce Technologies?" - will measure the political distance
between what is possible in digital commerce and the reality of trying to
establish it in the face of a campaign of disruption orchestrated by as
influential an actor as the military-intelligence complex.
	Mr. Cassidy will discuss the decades-long twilight engagement that
has been fought between the military intelligence agencies and the
civilian sector since the late 1970s when it became apparent that
cryptography would not long remain the preserve of the military without
political intervention. (In his research, Mr. Cassidy has discovered that
military intelligence agencies in the United States have a larger scope of
interest in communications technologies than that which makes its way into
the mass media, including such vital parts of the modern infrastructure as
the civilian telephone network.)
	Mr. Cassidy will extrapolate what political and industrial
barriers this campaign of disruption presents for the wide-scale adoption
of strong cryptographic technologies, digital specie and other electronic
financial instrumentation - such as adaption of Federal Reserve policy to
the digital commerce space. As well, Mr. Cassidy will look at the routes
of evasive action that are taken by creative digital commerce pioneers to
end-run the most palpable of military barriers to electronic commerce: the
export control regulations.


For the public presses, Peter Cassidy covers technology, white collar
crime and national affairs and, for research firms, he authors analyses on
technologies and their relevant markets. His reportage and opinion pieces
have appeared in WIRED, Forbes ASAP, The Economist, The Covert Action
Quarterly, The Progressive, The Texas Observer, Telepath Magazine, Bankers
Monthly, American Banker, InformationWeek, CFO Magazine, OMNI, The Boston
Sunday Globe, Boston Magazine, The Sunday Sacramento Bee, ComputerWorld,
National Mortgage News, Mortgage Technology, The International Digital
Media Yearbook (Japan), NetscapeWorld, CIO Magazine, Webmaster Magazine,
Datamation Magazine, World Trade Magazine and dozens of magazines and
newspapers worldwide. Several of his pieces have been included in
anthologies and college social studies texts. His expertise in information
technologies has garnered him contracts with some of the most prestigious
industrial research firms in America - Giga Information Group, Dataquest,
CI-InfoCorp, Business Research Group, Inc., a subsidiary of Cahners/Reed
Elsevier, and NSI Information Services - for whom he has authored analyses
on a range of subjects including cryptography and the network security
industry.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, October 7, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$30.00. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio
format at some future date

We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really*
know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by
Saturday, October 4, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks
payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be
sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $30.00. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've
had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance),
please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something
out.

Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

November  Carl Ellison         Identity and Certification for Electronic
                                Commerce
December  James O'Toole        Internet Coupons
January   Joseph Reagle        "Social Protocols": Meta-data
                                and Negotiation in Digital Commerce


We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on
the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga,  .

For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  .
If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in
the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From helm at fionn.es.net  Fri Sep  5 10:10:19 1997
From: helm at fionn.es.net (Michael Helm)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:10:19 +0800
Subject: PGP Keyservers and 5.0 DSS/D-H Keys...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970903224658.03486844@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <199709051659.JAA14306@fionn.es.net>



There are 2 main flavors of pgp key servers, AND 2 main flavors
of pgp.  One keyserver (the Graff keyserver) uses perl + a pgp
binary to manage keys.  This has both a mail & web interface
available for it.  The other keyserver (the Horowitz keyserver)
uses its own data management routines to manage keys & is independent
of a pgp binary (which raises some integrity issues, but is
a big win).  It has a mail interface & runs a server interface
on a preselected unprivileged port.  The newer version (0.9,2) of the
Horowitz server is compatible with the new formats of the pgp 5.0
"packets".

The 2 main flavors of pgp, or pgp binaries, are 2.6.x based,
the old public available version that everyone has, & the new
pgp 5.x version that's just been released by pgp, inc.  A
windows binary is available from the company & a public release
of the source is available & is being worked on.

To address the specific question, the 2.6.x pgp binaries cannot
understand the new pgp 5.0 keys.  They can understand pgp 5.0 keys
if pgp 5.0 has chosen to make rsa-style keys.  So keyservers running
the Graff server using pgp 2.6x binary will reject or ignore new
style pgp keys.  It was a frequent poster to this list, whose 
"add" transaction bounced on ESnet's keyserver, that alerted me to the
appearance of  a beta version of the pgp 5.0 product early this spring.

There are also hybrid key servers; people who use features of both
the Horowitz & Graff key servers.  It appears to me that they mostly
use the pgp binary to get check the cryptographic integrity of
submitted keys.

If you want to read about keyservers, check
http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-faq.html
as well as the pgp pages at mit & pgp.net
If you want to read about the pgp 5.0 effort,
http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/

There are also keyserver variants & historical versions of pgp of course.

The Horowitz server & the pgp 5.0 source are both very new.








From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Fri Sep  5 11:01:30 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:01:30 +0800
Subject: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge
Message-ID: <2C5khz1Qq/5Whpq4Zl9wkQ==@bureau42.ml.org>




The Electronic Forgery Foundation is proud to announce a major 
breakthrough in encryption technology -- Forged Encryption.

We are offering a prize of $10,000,000.00 for anyone who can
correctly decipher the following Forged Encryption message.

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
MessageID: od2CIT3fELE7K6bkIkKGJBj0MPUJ2TT8

hQCMA6ozRjzmqceZAQQAh02x0Dxer5vzZiSJ+v7bnMZQdgp425z5OH0NF/f/mXXc
vInw+UsuTXqWNEV5rEQKYjU3qHoe6suCz5f9hEEnOIBacsD28pYU4ahkGOCTuTY6
N3xKrtDRqLPInB8PY7Kfd56jjQsVVRKmJBwXqHbPax4YyUB6ZbKKvSPiuUsAAQSl
BAH3CFNKcmYjf+VtpjAVOpDNM/PMm1e6m33rZ01Sq6pXC0TTabCf7hkWscet0PCL
VX0l1Zw5IKaFqo+pZ3EICRMF6HQrc30G7L9TFeKr//3YsO3/bC4VBgNQHA0qf2nD
ldxAsTGPlRthBTxrzE0LjeOKi/pQOLXQMPQUwEIaL9rncjFgniplFoL6Nj0guJvW
VvS+gxth8hpeWss7WlFFioV0vShsS/lahA+eg/9nVy8ken8pr4m484w2vwoiSdce
CarVigVaRh6tCgh0jub7CHuDFg==
=Q9+G
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

The EFF doesn't have a copy of the correct answer locked away in
a secret underground cave in Tibet, for verification, because
the above Forged Encryption message is just a bunch of crap we
typed in pretty much at random.

Does the government want to keep your private key in escrow? Give
them a copy of your EFF private key.
Hell, give them _two_ copies, in case one is corrupted.{;>) Smile
when you give them to the government agent. Ask him how his day
has been. Offer him some coffe, and ask about his family. Tell 
him you will send him a Christmas card with another copy of your
EFF private key, just in case the government misplaces the copies
you gave them.
Put your hand over your heart, salute the flag, and sing "God Bless
America" as the government agent leaves. Then fart.

Use the EFF Forged Encryption sofware regularly, to send messages
with Subject:'s like "The Plot Against the PREZ," "Confirmation of
the date of our armed assault," "The Nuke has arrived."
Keep a copy of your EFF Forged Encryption secret key in a directory
named "Off the Pigs." 
Most importantly, never reveal in your private email to others that
you are a deaf, dumb and blind quadraplegic who has been homebound
since birth. That way, the outrageous claims that government agents
make against you in their secret deposition for a warrant to kick
in your door and terrorize you will look all the more foolish during
your trial.

We at the Electronic Forgery Foundation realize that some of you wise
guys are thinking that, for $10 million, it is well worth your while
to write a program that will decipher the above message into something
meaningful. Well, knock yourself out, dudes, but if you think that
known forgers couldn't possibly be lying about the $10 million, then
go directly to http://www.clueserver/fucking_idiot, do not pass GO
and do not collect $200.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
  This message is copyrighted under the auspices of the Electronic 
  Forgery Foundation. Any misquoting, misrepresentation, or other
  abuse of this message would be greatly appreciated. Hell, you can
  tell people you wrote it, if you want to. We don't really care.
---------------------------------------------------------------------






From frantz at communities.com  Fri Sep  5 11:05:27 1997
From: frantz at communities.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:05:27 +0800
Subject: Key Recovery is Bad for US Security
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970905103052.00700338@homer.communities.com>



Here is a copy of an email I sent to the senior senator from California
this morning.

Senator Feinstein:

I am extremely disturbed to read your comments in favor of mandatory "key
recovery".  Besides being a disaster for American software companies, and a
clear violation of the constitution's protections of freedom of speech,
these systems are harmful to the security of the United States.

All cryptographic systems are extremely difficult to get right.  The SSL
protocol developed by Netscape Inc., which doesn't provide for "key
recovery", went through three versions before the major problems were
removed.  "Key recovery" systems are, as Professor Dorothy Denning
testified, much more complex than similar systems which do not include that
feature.  In fact, the key recovery system built into Clipper, with the
advice of the National Security Agency, had flaws as documented by Matt
Blaze of AT&T Bell Laboratories.  If the best cryptographic group in the
world can't get it right, how can we expect these systems to be secure.

What do we risk with insecure systems?  We risk compromising the legitimate
secrets of non-classified government agencies, including IRS records;
United States companies, including delicate international negotiations; and
individual Americans, including their medical records.  Even worse, if some
group should decide to launch an information war attack on the United
States, these flaws may allow them to access sensitive systems in the
finance, transportation, and energy sectors.  One simple way this attack
could occur is if the access codes are distributed using a flawed
encryption system.

I hope you will reconsider your stand on this issue.

William S. Frantz
16345 Englewood Ave.
Los Gatos, Ca 95032

Capability Security Architect - Electric Communities


Bill Frantz                                  Electric Communities
Capability Security Guru                     10101 De Anza Blvd.
frantz at communities.com                       Cupertino, CA 95014
408/342-9576                                 http://www.communities.com






From rtfm at ctrl-alt-del.com  Fri Sep  5 11:32:42 1997
From: rtfm at ctrl-alt-del.com (RTFM)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:32:42 +0800
Subject: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge
In-Reply-To: <2C5khz1Qq/5Whpq4Zl9wkQ==@bureau42.ml.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970905111015.03f7c1e0>



At 05:31 PM 9/5/97 GMT, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>We at the Electronic Forgery Foundation realize that some of you wise
>guys are thinking that, for $10 million, it is well worth your while
>to write a program that will decipher the above message into something
>meaningful. Well, knock yourself out, dudes, but if you think that
>known forgers couldn't possibly be lying about the $10 million, then
>go directly to http://www.clueserver/fucking_idiot, do not pass GO
>and do not collect $200.

Clueserver.org would like to deny any connection to the above forgery
contest.  We are, in fact, working on our own contest involving a delivery
of e-cash to the first person who can predict the time and date of the
urinals in the FBI headquarters being electrified.  (Bonus e-cash if Freeh
is the first to pee in one.)

rtfm at clueserver.org






From anon at anon.efga.org  Fri Sep  5 11:47:47 1997
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:47:47 +0800
Subject: None
Message-ID: 



Re: traffic cameras, the latest issue of the "Computer Currents" local to
NY has an url that supposedly reports the location of these cameras in New 
York City:

http://www.panix.com/~sshah/ss-nyred.htm

Have fun.

FedPlunger
        







From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Sep  5 11:50:08 1997
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:50:08 +0800
Subject: FCPUNX:FBI calls for mandatory key escrow
Message-ID: <199709051839.LAA24267@proxy3.ba.best.com>



At 07:40 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>  Who is going to stop them? They have the guns! When our elected
> officials in Congress delved into the INSLAW affair, the Department 
> of Justice told them to "Fuck off." and refused to cooperate with 
> those who represent the citizens. Congress's reaction was to say, 
> "Yup. They're defying us."
>  Ipso facto--Congress is not running the country. The LEA's are running
> the country. Go figure...

It used to be that normal federal agencies did not have their own goons.

They relied on the fibbies.

Now every federal agency is creating their own goon squad.  Sometimes
they send in the goons to illegally enforce the laws that they are 
lobbying for.  Congress then has to make it legal, or crack down on
illegal use of force by a federal agency.  Frequently they make it
legal

This is reminiscent of the latter days of the Soviet Union.

Towards the end in the Soviet Union, armed government agencies
would raid other agencies for valuables, and set up road blocks
at random times and places, and confiscate anything valuable
being trucked through by another government agency.  No kidding.

A government factory would be working on producing widgets, and
suddenly guys with guns would come in and take their stuff for
another government factory.

The west is beginning to show the same symptoms, though as yet
not nearly as severe.  The state is visibly losing cohesion, and
at the same time, through improved communications, the citizenry
is gaining cohesion.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              				|  
We have the right to defend ourselves	|   http://www.jim.com/jamesd/
and our property, because of the kind	|  
of animals that we are. True law	|   James A. Donald
derives from this right, not from the	|  
arbitrary power of the state.		|   jamesd at echeque.com






From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Sep  5 11:55:49 1997
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:55:49 +0800
Subject: FCPUNX:Krispin Preaches Revolution!
Message-ID: <199709051839.LAA24256@proxy3.ba.best.com>



At 09:47 AM 9/4/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
> And this is what I think they may try: a global crackdown to try to stamp
> out the wildfire of anarchocapitalism before it spreads beyond any hope of
> control.

I think it already too late:  A global crackdown, by creating a visible
confrontation, would simply accellerate matters.  If instead they simply
rely on social inertia, it will take a long time for existing institutions
to fade away.

We have all victories except for one very important one.  Money.

Now once we take that key bastion, and it is being besieged on every 
front, everything else will fall in due course, but it will still be 
a slow process, only unusually far sighted politicians will see and 
fear what is happening.  There is vast inertia in social institutions.

> Louis Freeh is no dummy. He understands the power struggle. But he has to
> speak babytalk to Feinswine and Kyl to let them glimpse what the issues are.

Career civil servants have more reason to take the long view than do 
politicians.  Politicians do not really care if the state is being
undermined in the long run, provided they are re-elected in the short
run.  Although politicians are our enemies, they are a lesser enemy than
career civil servants.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              				|  
We have the right to defend ourselves	|   http://www.jim.com/jamesd/
and our property, because of the kind	|  
of animals that we are. True law	|   James A. Donald
derives from this right, not from the	|  
arbitrary power of the state.		|   jamesd at echeque.com






From jim.burnes at ssds.com  Fri Sep  5 12:33:26 1997
From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 03:33:26 +0800
Subject: FCPUNX:FBI calls for mandatory key escrow
In-Reply-To: <199709051839.LAA24267@proxy3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: 





On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, James A. Donald wrote:

> At 07:40 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> >  Who is going to stop them? They have the guns! When our elected
> > officials in Congress delved into the INSLAW affair, the Department 
> > of Justice told them to "Fuck off." and refused to cooperate with 
> > those who represent the citizens. Congress's reaction was to say, 
> > "Yup. They're defying us."
> >  Ipso facto--Congress is not running the country. The LEA's are running
> > the country. Go figure...
> 
> It used to be that normal federal agencies did not have their own goons.
> 
> They relied on the fibbies.
> 
> Now every federal agency is creating their own goon squad.  Sometimes
> they send in the goons to illegally enforce the laws that they are 
> lobbying for.  Congress then has to make it legal, or crack down on
> illegal use of force by a federal agency.  Frequently they make it
> legal
> 
> This is reminiscent of the latter days of the Soviet Union.
> 
> Towards the end in the Soviet Union, armed government agencies
> would raid other agencies for valuables, and set up road blocks
> at random times and places, and confiscate anything valuable
> being trucked through by another government agency.  No kidding.
> 

There is an interesting analysis of this process in the book, "The
Sovereign Individual".  They point out that during the end of one
mega-political age and the beginning of the next, the agency with a force
monopoly becomes corrupt in the extreme.  The authors define a
mega-political age as a fundamental change in the balance of power between
human predators and human prey. 

For example, hunter-gatherers to agricultural to industrial to 
cypher/network/informational.

Lets just hope the transition is as quick and painless as
possible.

Anyone have any background on the author's of this book?

Lord Rees-Moggs (and someone who I can't remember)

Jim Burnes








From ddt at pgp.com  Fri Sep  5 12:56:15 1997
From: ddt at pgp.com (Dave Del Torto)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 03:56:15 +0800
Subject: backdoor man?
Message-ID: 



 White House policy chief backs away from FBI plan

  By Reuters September 5, 1997, 6:10 a.m. PT

WASHINGTON--The Clinton administration's top official on domestic legal
policy yesterday backed away from a proposal by the head of the FBI to
regulate access to residential property in the United States.

"What he proposed was not the administration's policy," Dept. of Justice
Undersecretary William "Mon-key" Wrench told reporters during a break at a
congressional hearing.

FBI Director Louie Free's comments Wednesday before a subcommittee of the
Senate Judiciary Committee sparked strong criticism from civil liberties
groups and the housing industry.

U.S. law, Supreme Court decicisions, and the U.S. Constitution itself,
strictly regulates law inforcement's access to private property. But on
Wednesday, Free proposed mandatory law inforcement access to all domestic
residential property, and went on to suggest commercial property be subject
to law inforcement access as well.

"The administration has been very clear to the director that he has an
obligation to tell the Congress what's in the interests of law enforcement,
and he did that," Wrench explained. "That doesn't mean he was speaking for
everybody."

Free said developers and construction companies should build their products
such that they give government free access to all domestic and commercial
buildings.

Without such capabilities, criminals, terrorists, and pedophiles could use
housing to hide their illegal activities from law enforcement agencies,
Free said.

But housing industry lobbyists maintain that Free's plan would make their
products less attractive and make all housing less secure. Civil liberties
groups said mandatory controls on domestic housing might violate
constitutional guarantees of privacy and freedom of expression.

Under the FBI director's proposal, all construction plans would have to
include special "back doors" allowing government access to the finished
structures, but residents could choose to shut their back door if they saw
fit.

Some senators wanted to go further. Sen. Dianne Fineline (D--California)
proposed requiring all housing residents to enable the back-door access
feature. Free said such a law would be the best solution for law
enforcement but added that he did not think it was politically viable.

Wrench said Free's proposal was also unlikely to pass.

"If the committee were to report that [bill out], I think that would be
something we would look at very seriously," he said. "But I don't expect
that to happen. We have not asked them to report that and we are not going
to ask them to report that."

 -30-

[from: Noah Salzman ]







From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Fri Sep  5 13:02:02 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:02:02 +0800
Subject: Dianaism Was: Re: Di and Dodi Run Over A Land Mine
Message-ID: <199709051943.PAA28355@www.video-collage.com>



At 02:54 AM 9/5/97 -0600, toto wrote:
...
>  Diana used the position that was bestowed upon her to give comfort
>and hope to the halt, the lame, and the downtrodden. Did she do it
>out of self-serving egoism, or an attempt to gain recognition and 
>fame as a humanitarian?
>  I don't know, I don't care, and it is really none of my business.
>What *is* my business is to view my fellow man/woman and perceive
>if they are lifted up or further downtrodden by their interactions
>with myself and others. I have seen the faces of the AIDS children
>that she touched, when no one else would, and the lepers whom she
>shook hands with, when others were afraid to do so, and I have seen
>the light that she spread among those whom society had cast aside.
...
Anyone care to lay odds as to how soon a religion will start up with the
late princess as the main diety?
I'm guessing 5 years for the first hard-cores.  And 20 years for
international visibility.






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Fri Sep  5 13:38:08 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:38:08 +0800
Subject: Dianaism Was: Re: Di and Dodi Run Over A Land Mine
Message-ID: <199709052012.WAA03009@basement.replay.com>



Sean Roach wrote:
> Anyone care to lay odds as to how soon a religion will start up with the
> late princess as the main diety?
> I'm guessing 5 years for the first hard-cores.  And 20 years for
> international visibility.

I have already seen one newscast which has predicted that Diana will
join Elvis as a diety-figurehead.
So, now that we have a King _and_ a Queen, why don't we start a new
nation? They would be the perfect titular heads for a Virtual Nation,
because their lifestyles would be inexpensive for us to maintain, no 
matter how lavishly we choose to treat them.






From vznuri at netcom.com  Fri Sep  5 14:01:56 1997
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:01:56 +0800
Subject: Political News from Wired News
In-Reply-To: <340F2A6A.4A4F@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <199709052050.NAA13608@netcom8.netcom.com>




it's amazing. in all the blathering by senators etc. over these
crypto bills (Feinstein, Freeh etc.), 
has *anyone* raised the possibility on the record
that the key recovery is UNCONSTITUTIONAL? 

maybe I'm not following closely enough, but I haven't seen a *single* 
reference. that's really eerie. can't we get a *single* 
senator to bring up that issue?







From toto at sk.sympatico.ca  Fri Sep  5 14:40:38 1997
From: toto at sk.sympatico.ca (Toto)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:40:38 +0800
Subject: Di and Dodi Run Over A Land Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <341077A6.F8F@sk.sympatico.ca>



A Private Email wrote:
> 
> >  Yes, in reality, the story of Diana, the commoner turned Princess,
> >was overblown. 
> 
> Diana, though a high-school dropout who described herself as "a bit thick,"
> was not a commoner. Daughter of the 8th Earl Spencer, she was a direct
> descendant of Charles II, and thus carried more "English royal blood" in
> her veins than does Prince Charles Windsor (really Saxe-Coburg Gotha, of
> course.)

  Of course, but "the commoner turned Princess" is the fairy tale that
is perceived by the public. This is because people perceive her as
being a rather ordinary person--like them. Thus it makes the "dream"
possible for them, as well.

> Whether this makes it sensible for some overweight London shopgirl of
> Pakistani descent, with a cockney accent, to "reach for the same gold
> ring," is highly debateable. In fact, for such a woman to dream of being
> accepted into the royal family strikes me as downright loony.

  It _is_ looney. So is the "American Dream." So is going to the moon.
So is the belief that we can end poverty and war, and turn back the
tide of unconstitutional fascism that is building up for another run
at freedom and liberty.
  Sometimes the dreams come true--most often, the dream comes partly
true, or serves to inspire a person on their road to an achievable
goal in a more realistic manner.
 
> Diana Spencer appears to have been a dear and well-intentioned young woman,
> though no intellect. She bore healthy children, whom I'm sure she loved.
> But Americans' excessive and nearly worshipful fascination with her is a
> bad sign, a sign that we've lost track of our own dream. Our heroines ought
> to be intelligent, energetic women who make their own fortunes, and their
> own celebrity. Instead, we sneer at our own self-made millionaires as
> "nouveau upstarts" and "greedy exploiters of the oppressed working class."

  Yes, but the reason that Diana is so popular is that The Dream (TM)
came true for her, and then, when The Dream (TM) turned sour, because
she would not play her role as accepting pawn, she walked away from it
instead of debasing herself. Then, she overcame the powerful pressures
against her, as well as her own inner frailty, and became the best
person/Princess that was possible for her, choosing to make the best
use of the position and attention that was impossible to avoid.

> If the magazines brought us stories of women who started small businesses
> (often with their husbands), and MADE THEMSELVES rich and successful, we
> might truly be inspired to save that extra $20, to take on a part-time job,
> to start a little part-time enterprise of our own.

  It is true that the stories of the average working joe who lives
frugally and uses his/her money to put a dozen children of others
through college gets short play in the press. Likewise, the Sam Walton
and Bill Gates types of stories don't get constant exposure as do the
fairy tale stories of the rich and famous. But I think that all of
these dreams, of varying realistic levels, serve a function.

> But the hidden message
> of all the coverage of the Dianas of this world is, "You can never have
> this, because you're not of the right blood. So don't even try; just put in
> your eight hours on the assembly line, and then have a few beers and look
> at the pretty pictures of the princess, close your eyes and dream that you
> were there ... until the alarm clock rings and it's time to trudge back to
> work."

  Yes, if that is the "hidden message" that you want to see. The reality
is that we ignore reality in many ways, hence our _ability_ to dream of
things which may be somewhat (or totally) unrealistic. We construct our
own "hidden messages" according to our desires and needs.
 
> WHICH dreams we choose to indulge, can determine the course of our lives.

  I very much agree with you on this. The same applies to our choice of
role models, as well.
  Of equal or greater importance is our ability to emulate the best 
characteristics, values, etc., of our role models or our dreams, and
to eschew the qualities that are unrealistic for us, or of mean spirit.

  Perhaps Diana could have made a _better_ job of using her knowledge,
talents and social position to make the world a better place for her
having been in it, but to whom of us does this _not_ apply?
  Precious few, I suspect.

  I think that your throwing a realistic perspective on the overblown
fairy tale serves a valid purpose. It is for this type of realism that
I read your works. I don't think your perspective is a threat to those
who need to hold on to a more unrealistic view for their own purposes,
since our minds are pretty good at creating our own revisionist history
when it suits our purpose.
  As a matter of fact, your column gave me a wider base of knowledge
and perspective in viewing Diana's life and history.

  All in all, I hope that more people choose Princess Diana as a role
model of sorts, than choose Diane Feinstein.

Toto
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix
"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld
"The Final Frontier"
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn






From janzen at idacom.hp.com  Fri Sep  5 14:52:51 1997
From: janzen at idacom.hp.com (Martin Janzen)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:52:51 +0800
Subject: "The Sovereign Individual" (Was Re: FCPUNX:FBI calls for...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <9709052139.AA00524@sabel.idacom.hp.com>



Jim Burnes writes:
> There is an interesting analysis of this process in the book, "The
> Sovereign Individual".
> [...]

Yes, I saw this in a bookstore.  It looks interesting; if and when I
wade through my current stack of unread books, I intend to pick it up.
I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of any c-punks who have read
it, if you think it's relevant to the list.

> Anyone have any background on the author's of this book?

> Lord Rees-Moggs (and someone who I can't remember)

It's Lord William Rees-Mogg.  His co-author is James Dale Davidson,
the founder of the U.S. National Taxpayers' Union.  The two of them
previously wrote "Blood in the Streets" and "The Great Reckoning",
and publish a newsletter called "Strategic Investment".  Davidson also
wrote a pamphlet called "The Plague of the Black Debt" (!), which
appears to be intended as an advertisement for the newsletter.

(I sent away for a sample copy of SI a couple of years ago, and found
it to be a rather odd bird as far as investment newsletters go.  As I
recall, it did have a fair amount of investment analysis and advice --
presented in a rather breathless, hyperbolic style, IHMO -- but it was
mixed in with numerous articles dealing with Whitewater, Vince Foster,
and so forth.  I didn't subscribe.)

Here are a few links, courtesy of Alta Vista:

http://www.amazon.com (search for ISBN 0684810077; includes reader reviews)
http://www.strategicinvestment.com/sample.html (see it for yourself)
http://www.worth.com/articles/Z9611F08.html (the world of newsletter marketing)
http://www.free-market.com/zychik/1996/10/15.html (mentions SI, unfavorably)
http://cybersurfing.com/hfd/profl.html (caveat emptor)

--
Martin Janzen
janzen at idacom.hp.com






From hedges at sirius.infonex.com  Fri Sep  5 15:06:57 1997
From: hedges at sirius.infonex.com (Mark Hedges)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:06:57 +0800
Subject: Usenet Propagation Sucks
Message-ID: <199709052156.OAA11226@sirius.infonex.com>



Mike Duvos  wrote Fri 29 Aug 1997:
>Theoretically, I was under the impression that Usenet consisted of a large
>number of machines, which compared their news spools continuously, with
>each giving the other all articles that were not on both machines. 
> 
>Practically, this seems to work a lot less well than the designers
>envisioned.

In practice, it's really tough to keep a good feed going. We happen
to keep the alt.anon* stuff for a longer period of time. We've started
keeping individual groups longer as requested by readers. This makes
them happy, for the most part. It needs so much disk! We have two incoming
server feeds and three outgoing and people still complain that their
groups don't have enough messages for their liking. Plus the damn thing's
history database has to be rebuilt twice a month, and at night lest the
customers come for blood when they don't get their daily usenet, and it
never seems to go right without someone (me namely) sleeping in the office
keeping it company during the process.

A server would need terabyte upon terabyte to store a good archive
of Usenet for, say, the past year.

I wonder if the designers could forsee Usenet's explosive popularity,
or the taxing load the spammers place.

Mark Hedges






From delta7 at onlinebiz.net  Sat Sep  6 06:36:03 1997
From: delta7 at onlinebiz.net (delta7 at onlinebiz.net)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:36:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "700 HITS Per Day!"
Message-ID: <199709061336.GAA18197@toad.com>


TRAFFIC...TRAFFIC...TRAFFIC...

Webpages and sites are good, but the name of the game is HITS.

I can show you how, within a matter of days, to start
getting 700 or more HITS PER DAY to your website or page.

It�s EASY...it�s FREE...and, it WORKS!

All you have to do is link the following address to your website or page:

http://www.webspawner.com/users/taxsavings/

If you want the information on how to boost your HITS immediately, e-mail me back at 
delta7 at onlinebiz.net to let me know you�ve added my address as a link.  
Also, request the "HITS Report".

I will immediately verify that you added my link, and then I will immediately
e-mail you the "HITS Report" (the report is sold for $20, but if you link me to your site, you'll receive it for FREE).  You won�t be disappointed.






From cravey at escapenet.org  Fri Sep  5 15:57:42 1997
From: cravey at escapenet.org (Stephen Cravey)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:57:42 +0800
Subject: Any Houston D-H expiration parties?
Message-ID: <34108AE0.42DF@stgenesis.org>



Is anyone throwing a DH expiration party in Houston?






From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Sep  5 17:35:05 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:35:05 +0800
Subject: Junger v. Daley Amended Complaint
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906001329.008963bc@pop.pipeline.com>



We offer Junger v. Daley (formerly Junger v. Christopher)
Supplemental and Amended Complaint which responds
to recent exchanges between the plaintiff and the Departments
of Justice and Commerce:

   http://jya.com/pdj3.htm  (40K) plus attachments

This builds on earlier filings and documents:

   http://jya.com/pdj.htm

   http://jya.com/pdj2.htm






From cpunks at www.video-collage.com  Fri Sep  5 17:35:52 1997
From: cpunks at www.video-collage.com (Cypherpunks Maintenance Account)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:35:52 +0800
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday. (fwd)y
Message-ID: <199709060026.UAA19169@www.video-collage.com>



----- Forwarded message from Robert Hettinga -----

>From cpunks  Fri Sep  5 18:41:29 1997
X-Sender: rah at mail.shipwright.com
Message-Id: 
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:03:29 -0400
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday. 
Sender: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com
Precedence: bulk

-- Start of PGP signed section.
In utter anthesis of the way we normally do things at DCSB,


               The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents
                      An Utterly Unplanned
                          Last-Minute
                       Spur of the Moment
                      Boston Pub-Crawling

                   Celebration of the Expiration
                             of the
                 Diffie-Hellman Public Key Patent



                    Saturday, September 6, 1997
                     3pm - Whenever we give up

                   at The William Braddock Cafe,
                        A.K.A  Doyles's

                      3484 Washington Street,
                      Boston (Jamaica Plain)


This all started out several months ago in my head as a spiffy whoop-de-do
black-tie webcasted countdown with sponsors and free champaigne and a
groaning buffet and penguin waiters and a cash bar at the Harvard Club with
a donation to a worthy cause, but, well, we couldn't get a time on the
patent, so the countdown was out, and we couldn't get sponsors (remembering
the last cocktail party, maybe there's a reason?), so the free bubbly and
munchies was out, PETA got us on the way we wanted to make the penguins
groan, and we couldn't think of a worthy enough cause, so that was out,
and, finally, the Club is closed on Saturday, anyway. Feh. So, we're
losers, okay? What can we say? Shoot us, already...

Meanwhile, we're sitting here watching the Bay Area, and Austin, do
something, and then Declan and the Washingtoonians do something, but the
*final* straw came when Peter Wayner calls up and says:

"WELL???? Are you guys in Boston going to DO something? I'm gonna file a
story in the Times tomorrow that SAYS you are..."

And so, bowing to the pressure of the media culture in memory of recent
events on the continent , (and my own cravings for porkchops and
Pickwick Ale, ) I, Robert Hettinga, by the power vested in me by
the August (or maybe it was July) membership of the Society as Their
Moderator, do hereby unilaterally declare an Official Social Function of
the Digital Commerce Society of Boston to occur at Doyle's, 3484 Washington
Street, Jamaica Plain, Boston, tomorrow, Septmber 6, 1997, at 3PM Eastern
Standard Time, my God have mercy on our souls.

Bring your own money. :-). Be prepared to buy the moderator a drink.

If Doyle's gets boring, we'll crawl elsewhere, but only after an hour has
elapsed. If Doyle's isn't boring, we'll drink ourselves under the table, or
at least face-down on it, or until we're shown the door, or maybe until our
wives come and take us home, or something.

And, so, to paraphrase that great statesman, one David 'Davey' Crockett:
"Y'all can go to Hell. [or, Washington, or the Valley, or Texas, as the
case may be...] *I'm* going to Doyle's."

See you there.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
(Im)Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
-- End of PGP signed section, PGP failed!

----- End of forwarded message from Robert Hettinga -----






From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Sep  5 17:56:29 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:56:29 +0800
Subject: New GAK Bill
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906003958.00849190@pop.pipeline.com>



5 September 1997, MSNBC:


FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional 
hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.

A radical shift in crypto debate

Proposed bill outlaws non-crackable crypto products, restrict imports

By Brock N. Meeks, MSNBC

WASHINGTON -- The White House would likely be very sympathetic to a
controversial new bill that would outlaw all encryption software that 
doesn't allow law enforcement agencies to immediately decode scrambled 
messages, an administration official told MSNBC.

The new bill, still in draft form, is quietly circulating among members 
of the House and Senate. Although the administration hasn't formally 
endorsed any provisions of the bill, MSNBC has learned that the White 
House has been providing what is called technical drafting assistance
to members of Congress writing the bill. William Reinsch, the Commerce 
Department undersecretary for export administration, confirmed the White 
House involvement for MSNBC on Thursday night.

The draft bill was already in the hands of some members of the Senate's 
Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism and Government Regulation when FBI 
Director Louis Freeh outlined its basic provisions while testifying before
the panel Wednesday. Freeh said "we would recommend" that legislation be 
written requiring all encryption software or services made in or imported 
to the United States to have a feature "which would allow for the immediate, 
lawful decryption" of any scrambled messages used for illegal purposes or 
in a national security matter.
                           
NATION AT RISK?

The White House, FBI and intelligence agencies claim that the proliferation 
of unbreakable encryption products puts the nation at risk. Criminals and 
terrorists are increasingly using unbreakable encryption products, Freeh
testified Wednesday. 

U.S. makers of encryption software claim that any government-mandated decoding 
features would make their products unacceptable to clients in the global 
marketplace. The new proposals outlined by Freeh also drew the ire of civil
liberties groups, which fear that any government controls on encryption 
products raise serious First Amendment and privacy concerns.

Placing such government-mandated controls on the domestic use and manufacture 
of encryption software, as well as on the import of encryption products, 
stands in marked contrast to current White House crypto policies. Currently,
the United States places strict regulations on the export of any encryption 
products that do make decoding keys available to law enforcement agencies. 
However, the administration has steadfastly maintained throughout the often
contentious public debate over encryption policies that it would not place 
any restrictions on the domestic use of encryption software, nor would it
restrict the import of encryption products. 

Despite Freeh's testimony and the draft legislation written with White House 
assistance, Reinsch said the administration's policy on encryption hasn't 
changed. "I want to emphasize that [in providing drafting assistance] we are
responding to committee requests," he said. "And those requests have been 
fairly directive, such as: 'Give us some examples of how we can better 
accommodate law enforcement needs.' " 

Currently, the White House is backing an encryption bill in the Senate called 
the Secure Public Networks Act, also known as S. 909. This bill would 
encourage the use of and set up guidelines for encryption software products 
with decoding keys. Under this plan, all coded messages would spin off a 
decoding key that would be stored with a government-approved third party. 
Law enforcement agencies, foreign or domestic, would be allowed access to 
those keys if they obtained a court-ordered warrant. The bill would not 
restrict or require any encryption software used in the United States, or 
restrict the import of any foreign crypto products. 

However, MSNBC has learned that the draft bill now circulating among members 
of the House and Senate specifically outlaws the "manufacture, distribution 
or import" of any encryption software product or communication device that 
does not "allow the immediate decryption" of all scrambled messages or 
communications "if used for illegal purposes." The bill also targets 
"network services," such as Internet Service Providers, that provide 
encryption capabilities to their clients.
                           
BAN WOULD GO INTO EFFECT IN 1999

Under this proposed bill, if such encryption services are offered by a 
company like ISP, the service provider must build in a provision to allow
for immediate decryption of any scrambled messages, according to several 
sources that have seen the draft language. The software ban would
go into effect in January 1999.

Reinsch told MSNBC he wasn't sure that Freeh's testimony "accurately 
reflected" the language the White House offered in its technica
drafting for congressional committees. However, he indicated the 
administration was interested in Freeh's proposal.

"I'll be blunt about it," Reinsch said. If such a bill were approved by a 
congressional committee, the administration "would look very seriously at 
it and I imagine we would be very sympathetic to it," he said.

Opponents of proposals to require key for all encryption software blanched 
at Freeh's statements. "This proposal crosses a line that hasn't been 
crossed before in the area of domestic controls on crypto," said Alan
Davidson, policy analyst for the Center for Democracy and Technology. 
Davidson said a government mandate to provide immediate decryption 
capabilities would be like "forcing everyone to live in a glass house."
It also "trashes the Fourth Amendment," which guarantees a right to be 
protected from unlawful search and seizure, Davidson said.

Freeh told the Senate panel Wednesday that he isn't looking to expand law 
enforcement's investigative powers. Rather, he said, he is only looking for 
a "Fourth Amendment that works in the Information Age."
                            
------






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Fri Sep  5 18:29:47 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:29:47 +0800
Subject: Political News from Wired News
Message-ID: <199709060111.DAA06236@basement.replay.com>



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> 
> it's amazing. in all the blathering by senators etc. over these
> crypto bills (Feinstein, Freeh etc.),
> has *anyone* raised the possibility on the record
> that the key recovery is UNCONSTITUTIONAL?
> 
> maybe I'm not following closely enough, but I haven't seen a *single*
> reference. that's really eerie. can't we get a *single*
> senator to bring up that issue?

have you seen any pictures of the concrete pillar that apparently
totally destroyed an automobile built like a tank? does it even have
a single scratch on it?
anybody figure out how a papparazzi scooter managed to get ahead
of a car and zig-zag at 120 miles per hour? anybody figure out
why 'facts' such as these changed back and forth several times when
it became obvious that you could drive a Mercedes semi-truck 
through the holes in the original story?

i agree that there is something weird going on with the reporting of
the mainstream press and their affiliates.
i'm not looking for mountains of negative sensationalism replacing a
balanced perspective, but I have to wonder why nobody is seriously
questioning  the possibilities of the 'dark side' of anti-4-Horsemen 
legislation, or reporting the real details surrounding the sudden death
of a rich Egyptian mobster and the mother of a future King of England.

i am getting a very bad feeling that maybe the level of inside/outside
censorship of the press may be a good indicator, like the Doomsday 
Clock, of how close we are to the day when the Puppet Masters finally
step out from behind their masks.

truthmonger






From declan at pathfinder.com  Fri Sep  5 18:55:38 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:55:38 +0800
Subject: New GAK Bill
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906003958.00849190@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



Yeah, I have a copy of the FBI's "technical assistance"  draft dated late
August. Haven't had time to write about it yet. Party's taking too much
prep time. Maybe I'll type in the highlights tonight or distribute it at
the DC cypherpunks party tomorrow. 

Bottom line: non-GAKd crypto is outlawed after Jan 1, 1999.

-Declan


On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, John Young wrote:

> 5 September 1997, MSNBC:
> 
> 
> FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional 
> hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.
> 
> A radical shift in crypto debate
> 
> Proposed bill outlaws non-crackable crypto products, restrict imports
> 
> By Brock N. Meeks, MSNBC
> 
> WASHINGTON -- The White House would likely be very sympathetic to a
> controversial new bill that would outlaw all encryption software that 
> doesn't allow law enforcement agencies to immediately decode scrambled 
> messages, an administration official told MSNBC.
> 
> The new bill, still in draft form, is quietly circulating among members 
> of the House and Senate. Although the administration hasn't formally 
> endorsed any provisions of the bill, MSNBC has learned that the White 
> House has been providing what is called technical drafting assistance
> to members of Congress writing the bill. William Reinsch, the Commerce 
> Department undersecretary for export administration, confirmed the White 
> House involvement for MSNBC on Thursday night.
> 
> The draft bill was already in the hands of some members of the Senate's 
> Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism and Government Regulation when FBI 
> Director Louis Freeh outlined its basic provisions while testifying before
> the panel Wednesday. Freeh said "we would recommend" that legislation be 
> written requiring all encryption software or services made in or imported 
> to the United States to have a feature "which would allow for the immediate, 
> lawful decryption" of any scrambled messages used for illegal purposes or 
> in a national security matter.
>                            
> NATION AT RISK?
> 
> The White House, FBI and intelligence agencies claim that the proliferation 
> of unbreakable encryption products puts the nation at risk. Criminals and 
> terrorists are increasingly using unbreakable encryption products, Freeh
> testified Wednesday. 
> 
> U.S. makers of encryption software claim that any government-mandated decoding 
> features would make their products unacceptable to clients in the global 
> marketplace. The new proposals outlined by Freeh also drew the ire of civil
> liberties groups, which fear that any government controls on encryption 
> products raise serious First Amendment and privacy concerns.
> 
> Placing such government-mandated controls on the domestic use and manufacture 
> of encryption software, as well as on the import of encryption products, 
> stands in marked contrast to current White House crypto policies. Currently,
> the United States places strict regulations on the export of any encryption 
> products that do make decoding keys available to law enforcement agencies. 
> However, the administration has steadfastly maintained throughout the often
> contentious public debate over encryption policies that it would not place 
> any restrictions on the domestic use of encryption software, nor would it
> restrict the import of encryption products. 
> 
> Despite Freeh's testimony and the draft legislation written with White House 
> assistance, Reinsch said the administration's policy on encryption hasn't 
> changed. "I want to emphasize that [in providing drafting assistance] we are
> responding to committee requests," he said. "And those requests have been 
> fairly directive, such as: 'Give us some examples of how we can better 
> accommodate law enforcement needs.' " 
> 
> Currently, the White House is backing an encryption bill in the Senate called 
> the Secure Public Networks Act, also known as S. 909. This bill would 
> encourage the use of and set up guidelines for encryption software products 
> with decoding keys. Under this plan, all coded messages would spin off a 
> decoding key that would be stored with a government-approved third party. 
> Law enforcement agencies, foreign or domestic, would be allowed access to 
> those keys if they obtained a court-ordered warrant. The bill would not 
> restrict or require any encryption software used in the United States, or 
> restrict the import of any foreign crypto products. 
> 
> However, MSNBC has learned that the draft bill now circulating among members 
> of the House and Senate specifically outlaws the "manufacture, distribution 
> or import" of any encryption software product or communication device that 
> does not "allow the immediate decryption" of all scrambled messages or 
> communications "if used for illegal purposes." The bill also targets 
> "network services," such as Internet Service Providers, that provide 
> encryption capabilities to their clients.
>                            
> BAN WOULD GO INTO EFFECT IN 1999
> 
> Under this proposed bill, if such encryption services are offered by a 
> company like ISP, the service provider must build in a provision to allow
> for immediate decryption of any scrambled messages, according to several 
> sources that have seen the draft language. The software ban would
> go into effect in January 1999.
> 
> Reinsch told MSNBC he wasn't sure that Freeh's testimony "accurately 
> reflected" the language the White House offered in its technica
> drafting for congressional committees. However, he indicated the 
> administration was interested in Freeh's proposal.
> 
> "I'll be blunt about it," Reinsch said. If such a bill were approved by a 
> congressional committee, the administration "would look very seriously at 
> it and I imagine we would be very sympathetic to it," he said.
> 
> Opponents of proposals to require key for all encryption software blanched 
> at Freeh's statements. "This proposal crosses a line that hasn't been 
> crossed before in the area of domestic controls on crypto," said Alan
> Davidson, policy analyst for the Center for Democracy and Technology. 
> Davidson said a government mandate to provide immediate decryption 
> capabilities would be like "forcing everyone to live in a glass house."
> It also "trashes the Fourth Amendment," which guarantees a right to be 
> protected from unlawful search and seizure, Davidson said.
> 
> Freeh told the Senate panel Wednesday that he isn't looking to expand law 
> enforcement's investigative powers. Rather, he said, he is only looking for 
> a "Fourth Amendment that works in the Information Age."
>                             
> ------
> 
> 






From tcmay at got.net  Fri Sep  5 18:59:26 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:59:26 +0800
Subject: Is Diana News?
Message-ID: 




There have been a bunch of messages about this. Some satirical, some
serious. I've avoided any comment (so far as I remember).

But is it news?

I think so.

Not necessarily for Cypherpunks.

But I hear people saying this isn't news, that other things are more
important.

Sure, in some cases. But what is more important this week? News from Mars,
news that Congress is back in session?

Sometimes "personality" stories are more important than "normal event"
stories.

This story involves many interesting issues--freedom of speech, rights of
privacy, the accomplishments of Diana, the issue Toto raised that Diana is
surely a better role model than Diane (Feinstein), the monarchy, the
boycott of tabloids, etc.

No firm conclusions, but I reject completely the idea that routine reports
of Congress being back in session, or that several people were blown up in
Jerusalem, are bigger new stories than this.

This is headed for being the biggest news story of 1997, barring, of
course, an even bigger news story. Get used to it.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From tcmay at got.net  Fri Sep  5 19:12:26 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:12:26 +0800
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday.(fwd)y
In-Reply-To: <199709060026.UAA19169@www.video-collage.com>
Message-ID: 



At 5:26 PM -0700 9/5/97, Cypherpunks Maintenance Account wrote:

>Meanwhile, we're sitting here watching the Bay Area, and Austin, do
>something, and then Declan and the Washingtoonians do something, but the
>*final* straw came when Peter Wayner calls up and says:
>
>"WELL???? Are you guys in Boston going to DO something? I'm gonna file a
>story in the Times tomorrow that SAYS you are..."

Why not say, "Fuck you."? In other words, "If you report it's happening,
and it doesn't, I guess you'll be shown to be a typical medial fool."

This media-centric bullshit is getting way out of hand.

Even in jest.

--Tim May (No, I don't plan to attend the Bay Area version of this thing)

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de  Fri Sep  5 19:25:47 1997
From: nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:25:47 +0800
Subject: Dianaism Was: Re: Di and Dodi Run Over A Land Mine
Message-ID: <602230d4ced1068201d1cb54eededabb@squirrel>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) wrote:
>Sean Roach wrote:
>> Anyone care to lay odds as to how soon a religion will start up with the
>> late princess as the main diety?
>> I'm guessing 5 years for the first hard-cores.  And 20 years for
>> international visibility.

>I have already seen one newscast which has predicted that Diana will
>join Elvis as a diety-figurehead.  So, now that we have a King _and_
>a Queen, why don't we start a new nation? They would be the perfect
>titular heads for a Virtual Nation, because their lifestyles would be
>inexpensive for us to maintain, no matter how lavishly we choose to
>treat them.

They'll be lonely if we don't fill in the Pantheon:

God of Messages and Pathways:     Alan M. Turing
God of War:                       William Colby
God of Justice:                   Alfred Nobel
Goddess of Love:                  Muriel Hemingway
God of Vengeance:                 Jim Bell

Presidential Gods:
The Kitchen God:                  Harry S. Truman
God of Mischief and Deception:    Richard Milhous Nixon
God of Laughter and Forgetting:   Ronald Wilson Reagan

Court Jester:                     Jerzy Kosinski

Patron Saint of Lost Causes:      Dorothy Denning

The All Powerful God:             Rover from "The Prisoner"

The Olympians:
John Bonham
Curt Cobain
Jimi Hendrix
Janice Joplin
John Lennon
Jim Morrison

"Oh Lord Turing, please hear my prayer.  I do beseech thee for a one
way function whose inverse is NP complete.  Please do graciously
accept my humble offering: 10109AlanMathisonTuring11cfea22ef8c1166"

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html

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From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Sep  5 19:34:36 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:34:36 +0800
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday. (fwd)y
In-Reply-To: <199709060026.UAA19169@www.video-collage.com>
Message-ID: 



At 10:06 pm -0400 on 9/5/97, Tim May wrote:


> Why not say, "Fuck you."?

Welll, if you really insist:

    Fuck you.

    In half.

    With a brick.

In jest, of course...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From declan at pathfinder.com  Fri Sep  5 19:48:50 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:48:50 +0800
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



Whoops! My fault. I thought you were and said that to Peter this
morning...

-Declan


On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> 
> Meanwhile, we're sitting here watching the Bay Area, and Austin, do
> something, and then Declan and the Washingtoonians do something, but the
> *final* straw came when Peter Wayner calls up and says:
> 
> "WELL???? Are you guys in Boston going to DO something? I'm gonna file a
> story in the Times tomorrow that SAYS you are..."






From declan at well.com  Fri Sep  5 20:02:03 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:02:03 +0800
Subject: Mandatory key escrow bill text, backed by FBI
Message-ID: 



All encryption products distributed in or imported into the U.S. after
January 1, 1999 must have a key escrow backdoor for the government,
according to an FBI-backed proposal circulating on Capitol Hill. The
measure would impose a similar requirement on "public network service
providers" that offer data-scrambling services. FBI Director Louis Freeh
talked about this proposal, without disclosing legislation existed, at a
Senate subcommittee haring on Wednesday.

Domestic use and sale of encryption has never been regulated.

Attached is an excerpt from the draft "Secure Public Networks Act" dated
August 28.

-Declan

-------

	SEC. 105. PUBLIC ENCRYPTION PRODUCTS AND SERVICES

	(a) As of January 1, 1999, public network service
	providers offering encryption products or encryption
	services shall ensure that such products or services
	enable the immediate decryption of communications or
	electronic information encrypted by such products or
	services on the public network, upon receipt of a court
	order, warrant, or certification, pursuant to section
	106, without the knowledge or cooperation of the person
	using such encryption products or services.

	(b) As of January 1, 1999, it shall be unlawful for any
	person to manufacture for sale or distribution within
	the U.S., distribute within the U.S., sell within the
	U.S., or import into the U.S., any product that can be
	used to encrypt communications or electronic
	information, unless that product:

  	 (1) includes features, such as key recovery, trusted 
	 third party compatibility or other means, that

	  (A) permit immediate decryption upon receipt of
	  decryption information by an authorized party without
	  the knowledge or cooperation of the person using such
	  encryption product; and

	  (B) is either enabled at the time of manufacture,
	  distribution, sale, or import, or may be enabled by the
	  purchase or end user; or

	 (2) can be used only on systems or networks that include
	 features, such as key recovery, trusted third party
	 compatibility or other means, that permit immediate
	 decryption by an authorized party without the knowledge
	 or cooperation of the person using such encryption
	 product.

	(c) (1) Within 180 days of the enactment of this Act,
	the Attorney General shall publish in the Federal
	Register functional criteria for complying with the
	decryption requirements set forth in this section.

	(2) Within 180 days of the enactment of this Act, the
	Attorney General shall promulgate procedures by which
	data network service providers sand encryption product
	manufacturers, sellers, re-sellers, distributors, and
	importers may obtain advisory opinions as to whether a
	decryption method will meet the requirements of this
	section.

	(3) Nothing in this Act or any other law shall be
	construed as requiring the implementation of any
	particular decryption method in order to satisfy the
	requirements of paragrpahs (a) or (b) of this section.

-------

MSNBC's Brock Meeks on above FBI proposal & White House support:
  http://www.msnbc.com/news/108020.asp

My report on the September 3 "mandatory key escrow" Senate hearing:
  http://jya.com/declan6.htm

Transcript of FBI director Louis Freeh's remarks at Sep 3 hearing:
  http://jya.com/fbi-gak.txt

Reuters' Aaron Pressman on Commerce Dept backing away from FBI:
  http://www.pathfinder.com/net/latest/RB/1997Sep05/248.html

-------







From tm at dev.null  Fri Sep  5 20:24:31 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:24:31 +0800
Subject: New GAK Bill
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906003958.00849190@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <3410C9CD.4C4D@dev.null>



John Young wrote:
> 
> 5 September 1997, MSNBC:
> 
> FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional
> hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.

  Surprise, surprise!
  It's amazing that nobody saw this coming. I guess we were all fools
for trusting the mainstream media to warn us of the possibility of
the government taking this fascist, dictatorial, mind-control action.
  Gee, I sure wish I hadn't turned in all my guns.

TruthMonger






From jf_avon at citenet.net  Fri Sep  5 20:28:51 1997
From: jf_avon at citenet.net (jf_avon at citenet.net)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:28:51 +0800
Subject: Freeh is Marked for Deletion
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709060326.XAA03786@cti06.citenet.net>




>  Freeh must be removed by any means necessary. His calling for mandatory (or
>  involuntary) key escrow marks him as unworthy of continued tenure. He is
>  marked for deletion.

HOLY DJEEZUUUUSSSSS Tim!

You long for becoming roommate to Jim Bell?

:-)

Ciao

jfa
-- 
Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds(Montreal) QC Canada
 DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee
    Finest of Limoges porcelain and crystal
 JFA Technologies, R&D consultants
    physicists and engineers, LabView programing.
PGP encryption keys at:
   http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon
   http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
ID# C58ADD0D  : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
ID# 5B51964D  : 152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From kp at crypt.com  Fri Sep  5 20:34:30 1997
From: kp at crypt.com (Dave K-P)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:34:30 +0800
Subject: Puppet Masters
In-Reply-To: <199709060111.DAA06236@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199709060725.DAA00192@crypt.com>



> i am getting a very bad feeling that maybe the level of inside/outside
> censorship of the press may be a good indicator, like the Doomsday 
> Clock, of how close we are to the day when the Puppet Masters finally
> step out from behind their masks.

	Puppet Masters don't step out from behind thier masks.  They have
someone else step out for them.

~kp






From enoch at zipcon.net  Fri Sep  5 20:57:58 1997
From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:57:58 +0800
Subject: Mandatory key escrow bill text, backed by FBI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19970906034625.26978.qmail@zipcon.net>



Declan writes:

> 	(b) As of January 1, 1999, it shall be unlawful for any
> 	person to manufacture for sale or distribution within
> 	the U.S., distribute within the U.S., sell within the
> 	U.S., or import into the U.S., any product that can be
> 	used to encrypt communications or electronic
> 	information, unless that product:
> 
>   	 (1) includes features, such as key recovery, trusted 
> 	 third party compatibility or other means, that
> 
> 	  (A) permit immediate decryption upon receipt of
> 	  decryption information by an authorized party without
> 	  the knowledge or cooperation of the person using such
> 	  encryption product; and

This is blatantly unconstitutional and breaks new ground that the
government has never even dared hint at before. 

The true agenda of the GAKers has finally been disclosed to the American
public.

Next they will want copies of all of our house keys for the jackbooted
thugs to hold, and emergency Assault Plungers in all our umbrella stands
ready for the cops to ram up the citizens' assholes. 

This is not simply a proposed bill.  It is an ACT OF WAR.

It is them or us.  I pick us. 

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     enoch at zipcon.com   $    via Finger                       $
         {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}






From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu  Fri Sep  5 20:59:57 1997
From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:59:57 +0800
Subject: Hey
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970905234916.0088e420@popmail.firn.edu>



At 04:35 PM 9/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>::
>Encrypted: PGP
>
>-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
>Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
>MessageID: yV9u2hakLFv9/SGjemJH0AuGYsBQ1cOE
>
>hQCMA/HAD1cfk+qpAQQAwuEDcaGfi1QCu84QklmpWe0AtyQUKGvkIuT8cEXt/ePS
>G1QAGQBHNRPvsN92ORDxPY5K+JgeS4b8ZpRJ+C9pSFwtzJXyoSaPSWLVLe//GU4y
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>AY608e0OyKO78dPdEGeRYH5PwW6BLgppULjR17+Puo0ukIqwcItJlYPx7K2AgNtA
>9sDlymr5h+cMky+BbrFWoi8QZEBrHvhXckXuPWHDlrmxTzd362m2R9G3/4TLlMjK
>j6q2TD5DA0CT/g1ETK3J0y+7cFfuGp6oP2PhP27VCBW6maIp1Z35K3yNy7vytrTE
>qDuJtcF2lvDAYKBcKr0lk6fBuGfRRZge3ZlAOgo/t5KPSGou/KlkHb2eR20vWqUM
>Z2xcTkn5Y+ZJsPb/k9sOe8vKGK38IGYZdv2nj3k7MQvCIIuwAc37XIiC53mWAP8V
>mIISGuYa2DgcxkdEy/rW0vd3AbhRzNGHp4u4zpjK/r2kTDGYGBURZFv2dC24KmcT
>sgGYqYhYFY2/xmwiQgNKaRlMgrhRJZ8ytLxSCQts1pZhbImf2BFFBNshSIPUiZIn
>4fEPvD0lgJjC7jkkwAjEfN3E8DSCORs7GzKY1/Psr5ZZkEKVezv2blL+5YjYff+H
>vfqgXkeGKOgXNUT1lNZZWA==
>=wuTx
>-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Oopssss...

Man, do I feel like a jackass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
			-U.S. Constitution, Amendment II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------






From tcmay at got.net  Fri Sep  5 21:04:03 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:04:03 +0800
Subject: New GAK Bill
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906003958.00849190@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



At 8:11 PM -0700 9/5/97, TruthMonger wrote:
>John Young wrote:
>>
>> 5 September 1997, MSNBC:
>>
>> FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional
>> hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.
>
>  Surprise, surprise!
>  It's amazing that nobody saw this coming. I guess we were all fools
>for trusting the mainstream media to warn us of the possibility of
>the government taking this fascist, dictatorial, mind-control action.
>  Gee, I sure wish I hadn't turned in all my guns.

Irony aside, some of us saw this coming more than 5 years ago.

As the saying goes, "check the archives."

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From mailhost at aol.com  Sat Sep  6 12:08:11 1997
From: mailhost at aol.com (mailhost at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your Credit Report
Message-ID: <20098186374.JJX09264@3100fixcredit.com>





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From brianbr at together.net  Fri Sep  5 21:14:36 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:14:36 +0800
Subject: Di and Dodi Run Over A Land Mine
Message-ID: <199709060405.AAA25102@mx02.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 9/5/97 4:54 AM, Toto (toto at sk.sympatico.ca)  passed this wisdom:

 [snip]
> I don't know, I don't care, and it is really none of my business.
>What *is* my business is to view my fellow man/woman and perceive
>if they are lifted up or further downtrodden by their interactions
>with myself and others. I have seen the faces of the AIDS children
>that she touched, when no one else would, and the lepers whom she
>shook hands with, when others were afraid to do so, and I have seen
>the light that she spread among those whom society had cast aside.

  This is the light in which I prefer to remember her .. thankyou for
saying it so nicely.

  [snip]

>  You write that Diana's campaign against the use of land mines is
>an unrealistic attempt to negate the cheap and effective defense
>of the poorer countries. Perhaps what was needed was for her to
>have the input of someone such as yourself who understands the need
>for cheap and effective self-defence, so that she could concentrate
>her efforts on removing landmines that are no longer needed, and
>preventing the dispersal of landmines which are not truly needed 
>for self-defence, but are only serving as 'toys for boys' who want
>to play soldier.

 .. here I can speak with some authority ... having lost a part of my
anatomy to such a device ... for many years I quietly accepted what
had happened to me as a forseeable consequence of having gone off to a
war ... but in correspondance with my US Senator, Patrick Leahy,
another major backer of the anti-landmine effort, I came to realize
that the mines sowed along the trail from Phuc Loc(5) to Phuc Loc(6),
of which I became one victim, could just as easily have maimed/killed
any of the dozens of villagers who plied that trail every day. 

  Further, when I was trained as an infantry officer by the Marine
Corps in the use of mines we were taught to painstakingly prepare map
overlays showing the location of each and every mine ... but when we
got to that tropical SE Asian wonderland ... the way it was done was
to plant em and forget em unless it was in your front yard ... that is
immoral, no discussion! FWIW, my .02!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNBDV+MdZgC62U/gIEQJ+EwCeLd9/XBunjjX3LU0TMHHk1IKrgK8AoJjK
6zPkJXIZ0dj8zAMr932m1AMD
=uGTd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
      For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
   "...if you drink much from a bottle marked 'poison,' it is almost
     certain to disagree with you, sooner or later"  -- Lewis Carroll







From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  5 21:23:05 1997
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:23:05 +0800
Subject: Please show me these encryption algorithms
Message-ID: <19970906040906.29100.qmail@hotmail.com>



Does anybody know RC4,RC2,CDMF,MISTY,MULTI2 encryption algorithms?
If you know these encryption algorithms,
Please show me these encryption algorithms.





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From tm at dev.null  Fri Sep  5 21:37:24 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:37:24 +0800
Subject: LYING FUCKS! / Behind the ELECTROMAGNETIC CURTAIN
Message-ID: <3410DBF2.2F9D@dev.null>



To everyone I know:
  I've had enough of the bullshit, mind-control fascism surfacing at
an increasingly fast pace in an assault on freedom and privacy.
  I've also had enough of the constant lies of an established political
power structure which is now so firmly entrenched in the seat of power
that they no longer even bother to tell *_good_* lies.
  The final straw, for me, was the inevitable announcement that anyone
paying the least attention could see coming from a mile away, despite
all of the flag-waving, 'land of the free' speeches, and denials by
those in power of their true intentions in regard to the future of 
free speech, liberty and privacy.

----
5 September 1997, MSNBC:
FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional 
hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.
----

  Accordingly, I am pledging to henceforth exercise my right to free
speech, in my own manner, right up to the time when we all face
imprisonment for not only free speech, but for freedom of thought,
as well.
  My manner is to call a lying fuck a _lying_fuck_; to call a
rat fucker a _rat_fucker_; to call a fucking imbecile a _fucking
_imbecile_; to call a Nazi piece of shit a _Nazi_ _piece_of_shit_.
  In the future, I plan to express myself in a manner which does
not give support to the 'quiet lies' that are increasingly being
told by the mainstream press and a timid public which are either
too tired of fighting the fascists or have too much invested in
the current system to risk rocking the boat by calling for an
end to bullshit, draconian laws, and increasing oppression and
imprisonment of the citizens of what were once free nations.
  I intend to do so in my private emails, my public posts, and
in the editing of news that I forward to others.

e.g.
----
NATION AT RISK?

The Fascist White House, Terrorist FBI and co-conspirator 
intelligence agencies claim that the proliferation of unbreakable 
encryption products puts the nation at risk. Unnamed Criminals and 
Mythical terrorists are increasingly using unbreakable encryption 
products, Lying Fuck Freeh testiLied Wednesday. 
----

  I am forwarding this message to everyone in my email address book
with the suggestion that they consider doing the same, or to take
a similar action which may be more in line with their own character
and predelictions.
  The bottom line:
Our elected legislators, politicians, and public servants are *not*
going to tell us the truth.
The media is *not* going to tell us the truth.
If the citizens don't speak truthfully to one another, then there is
*no* hope of stemming the escalating assaults on privacy and liberty.

As sole member of the TruthMonger Cult of One:
I hereby declare an electronic state of war against the dictatorial,
fascist entities who are attempting to build an ElectroMagnetic
Curtain around an InterNet that served as a truly democratic forum
for Free Netizens until the power structure declared it to be the
forefront of a New World, while eschewing any intentions to bring
it under the thumb of a New World Order.

  I suggest that the Lying Fascist Fucks who are mounting an assault
on the freedom and privacy of their citizens lay in some Electronic
Body Bags.
  Perhaps each truthful word I shoot in their direction will be but
a negligable 'B-B' in reality, but I refuse to refrain from doing
what I can, even if I am wrong about things having reached a stage
where enough people will join in resistance to the assault on
freedom and privacy to bring down the ElectroMagnetic curtain with
a mountain of B-B's.

  I can't stop these dictatorial fascists from telling their lies,
but I *can* still express my view of their crass assault on the
constitutional rights of myself and others.
  I *can* call Louis Freeh, Lying Fuck Freeh.
  I *can* call Bill Clinton, Lying Nazi Schill Clinton.
  I *can* call Dianne Feinstein, Lying Cunt SwineStein.

  I not only *can*, but I *will*.
  I will fight with bytes, even though I know that, ultimately, 
these increasingly violent power mongers will respond with 
bullets if they perceive a great enough threat to risk exposing
their true nature and intentions.
  I believe that I can fire a lot of B-B's at the ElectroMagnetic
Curtain before I 'commit suicide', have a 'tragic accident', or
unwittingly fire one of my electronic B-B's in the direction of
heavily armed, camoflaged secret troops 'defending' the Electronic
Border that the fascists are attempting to build around a formerly
Free InterNet.

  Am I the only one who has noticed that free speech and private
communication on the InterNet posed little 'threat' to society
until the government decided to get increasingly involved?
  Think about it. _Who_is_the_enemy_?
  The Public? The Citizens? I think not...

TruthMonger
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix
"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld
"The Final Frontier"
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn






From tm at dev.null  Fri Sep  5 21:55:39 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:55:39 +0800
Subject: Amen! / Re: Mandatory key escrow bill text, backed by FBI
In-Reply-To: <19970906034625.26978.qmail@zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <3410DE53.14EB@dev.null>



Mike Duvos wrote:

> This is not simply a proposed bill.  It is an ACT OF WAR.
> 
> It is them or us.  I pick us.

  I have ordered a semi-automatic keyboard and a Telsa snarf-barrier.

TruthMonger







From tm at dev.null  Fri Sep  5 22:22:17 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:22:17 +0800
Subject: "YOU CAN'T *_HANDLE_* THE TRUTH!" / Re: New GAK Bill
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3410E60C.22C5@dev.null>



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> Last I checked, I'm part of the mainstream media. I've been warning of
> this for the last year, if not longer.

  I truly appreciate the effort you have made to shine some light
on the realities and dangers of the direction that government is
moving society in.
  However, I would suggest that you read my "LYING FUCKS!" post in
order to pick up a few pointers on how to increase the effectiveness
of your messages to the public.
  If your 'Truth in Language' skills are somewhat lacking, then I 
would be happy to tutor you, with the goal of increasing your
communications skills to encompass the ability to go beyond the
ear-wax barrier to truth. { Being blessed with Tourette Syndrome,
I am fully qualified in this area. }

  If you just once post a Netly News article which refers to "Lying
Fuck Freeh," then I would be happy to stop spamming your employers
with suggestions that they change the motto of "Time Magazine" to:
"YOU CAN'T *_HANDLE_* THE TRUTH!"

xoxoxo,
TruthToto






From declan at pathfinder.com  Fri Sep  5 22:32:04 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:32:04 +0800
Subject: New GAK Bill
In-Reply-To: <3410C9CD.4C4D@dev.null>
Message-ID: 



Last I checked, I'm part of the mainstream media. I've been warning of
this for the last year, if not longer.

-Declan

On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, TruthMonger wrote:

> John Young wrote:
> > 
> > 5 September 1997, MSNBC:
> > 
> > FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional
> > hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.
> 
>   Surprise, surprise!
>   It's amazing that nobody saw this coming. I guess we were all fools
> for trusting the mainstream media to warn us of the possibility of
> the government taking this fascist, dictatorial, mind-control action.
>   Gee, I sure wish I hadn't turned in all my guns.
> 
> TruthMonger
> 
> 






From tm at dev.null  Fri Sep  5 22:50:31 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:50:31 +0800
Subject: Starting Date of the Digital Revolution
Message-ID: <3410EB54.4A01@dev.null>



Friday, September 05, 1997






From attila at hun.org  Fri Sep  5 23:00:16 1997
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:00:16 +0800
Subject: Is Diana News?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709060550.XAA07635@infowest.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 970905:1853 
    Tim May  expostulated:

+This is headed for being the biggest news story of 1997, barring, of
+course, an even bigger news story. Get used to it.

+--Tim May

    yeah, but it does not make Diana any less of an airhead who could
    not take the fire in the kitchen.  Diana expected to be Queen on
    _her_ terms and crumpled.

    they may claim she saved the monarchy by her open, loving self. No,
    she trivialized the monarchy with her problems and hung it out to
    dry --looking exactly as it is/was: another average dysfunctional
    family.

 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

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From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  5 23:09:37 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:09:37 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching you watch Farenheit 451
In-Reply-To: <199709041247.IAA03203@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970905175611.0069535c@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 08:47 AM 9/4/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>in the process of rereading "Fahrenheit 451" - the recent printing  of 
>this in paperback features a Marquis that says somethig like "Now, more 
>relevant than ever" - as much as I hate having someone else tell me what 
>to think ... they certainly seem to be right. It has been over twenty 

BTW, the last copy of F451 I saw really irked me - the cover had
explanatory notes like "Fahrenheit 451, the temperature that books burn!"
and stuff about firemen whose job is setting fires.  
Are today's kids dumbing down, or less literate, or is it just enough
longer since the book was written that publishers need to try harder to 
get people to read it?








From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  5 23:10:52 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:10:52 +0800
Subject: Administration backs away from FBI on crypto, by  A.Pressman (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970905173751.0069535c@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 09:07 PM 9/4/97 -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
>>   "What he proposed was not the administration's policy," Commerce

>Of course it isn't. Not yet. This is called playing "good cop, bad cop".

Or as one of Stallone's characters put it "Bad cop, WORSE cop!"  :-)








From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep  5 23:11:34 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:11:34 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970905180150.0069535c@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 09:53 AM 9/4/97 -0400, stonedog at ns1.net-gate.com wrote:
>Interesting. In NJ, where I have had the misfortune of living, "being able
>to face your accuser" means that if the cop doesn't show you have to
>reschedule and keep rescheduling until he _does_ show. For this reason, I
>had assumed that the "no cop, no case" clause was simply hopeful urban
>legend.

Whether they get to reschedule may depend on factors you can control;
get some professional advice if this happens to you often :-)
The last time I had the opportunity to watch a NJ courtroom for a while,
the cops and prosecutors did have their act together.  The cop's 
testimony started out with being asked what he did that morning
"Calibrated my radar gun" "What model is it?"... "What steps did you
follow?"...

>If nothing else, we live in a "traffic police state".

Unfortunately, the one time I got stopped at a papers-in-order stop
and the cops asked me where I was going, I had a burned out tail light,
so I decided not to give the cops the answers they deserved.
"America, but I seem to have made a wrong turn and ended up here...."







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Sep  6 00:12:20 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:12:20 +0800
Subject: Mars Rover Fraud
Message-ID: <199709060653.IAA08735@basement.replay.com>



I happened across a web site, http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/I.Castelijn/
that promised to reveal the _real_ pictures from the Mars Rover, instead
of the _fake_ ones released to the public.
Since I found the web site regarding the "faking" of the Apollo moon
landings amusing, though totally unbelievable, I decided to view the
claimed Mars Rover fakery conspiracy theory, as well.

  Imagine my amazement when one of the claimed _real_ pictures contained
a view of a wristwatch that I had lost in the Desert outside of Tucson
a few years ago. Even the inscription from my mother was still legible!

I'm warning the spooks on this list that if I don't get my wristwatch
back, I'm going to blow the lid off of their whole Mars Rover scam
in Smile magazine. I'm serious!

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html
"I AM a number!  I am a free man!"

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

----------------------------------------------------------------------
   This message is copyrighted under the auspices of the Electronic
   Forgery Foundation. However, it was probably written by the person
   whose name it appears to be forged under. Confusing, isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------






From attila at hun.org  Sat Sep  6 00:13:07 1997
From: attila at hun.org (Attila T. Hun)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:13:07 +0800
Subject: Amen! / Re: Mandatory key escrow bill text, backed by FBI
In-Reply-To: <3410DE53.14EB@dev.null>
Message-ID: <199709060645.AAA09089@infowest.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 970905:2238 
    TruthMonger  expostulated:

+Mike Duvos wrote:

+> This is not simply a proposed bill.  It is an ACT OF WAR.
+> 
+> It is them or us.  I pick us.

+  I have ordered a semi-automatic keyboard and a Telsa snarf-barrier.

+TruthMonger

    TS qualified, eh?  a Telsa  snarf-barrier?  now you've done it.

    yes, it is war.

 --
 "When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates. 
     For once, let him clean up after me! " 
        --Christian Worley
 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

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Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
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MgocC2e/P+Ui/Ckd9EyCZ7X+KtB2IHTwQ5sCpaILm/O3GA0rDGM3of6Z7Laf5hoi
zigBHe7GvpqUT/+W8QGTNoVV58K6DtT/sM+8UX5APNndnL6zSza9TogI1ak5dfWq
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From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  6 00:48:16 1997
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:48:16 +0800
Subject: Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem
Message-ID: <19970906073720.3185.qmail@hotmail.com>



GCC(Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem)
GCC uses the newest chaos logic and is conventional cryptosystem stream 
cipher
encryption. It is high speed and allows variable-length keys, making it 
very
reliable and suitable for use in multimedia.

http://www.iisi.co.jp/reserch/GCC-over.htm


Chaos InforGuard
GCC(Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem) security application.
High speed,variable-length keys,high reliability,and user friendliness 
allow you
to easily encrypt an entire harddisc.Can be used with Windows3.1 & 
Windows95.

http://www.iisi.co.jp/vcs/software/infoguard-e1621.html


Chaos-mail
Internet Mailer Using Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem
Chaos-mail is a cryptosystem mailer for use on Windows95,which using GCC 
and Chaos
MAM, gives you the ability to encrypt/decrypt and verify mail. 
Chaos-mail is a
cryptosystem mailer for user on Windows 95 which, using GCC and Chaos 
MAM, gives
you the ability to encrypt, decrypt, and verify mail. Not only is it 
fast,
reliable, and user-friendly, but it is also very suitable for multimedia 
because
of its non-biased treatment of data.

http://www.iisi.co.jp/vcs/software/chaosmail-e.htm



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From amp at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 01:25:38 1997
From: amp at pobox.com (amp at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:25:38 +0800
Subject: Is Diana News?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



=snip=

> This is headed for being the biggest news story of 1997, barring, of
> course, an even bigger news story. Get used to it.
> 
> --Tim May

You mean like Mother Theresa dying?

My grandmother used to say such things happen in triplets. Wonder who's 
next?

---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp at pobox.com
Date: 09/06/97
Time: 03:18:50
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i



To: cyberia-l at listserv.aol.com
Date:         Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:01:59 -0400
From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" 
              
Subject:      Re: Mandatory key escrow bill text, backed by FBI


This is shocking.

For a legal analysis of why mandatory domestic key escrow would 
not (most likely) be constitutional for non-commercial messages, 
see parts III & IV of:

     http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/clipper.htm


A. Michael Froomkin        | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
Associate Professor of Law |
U. Miami School of Law     | froomkin at law.miami.edu
P.O. Box 248087            | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/
Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's hot here.

----------

Here's an excerpt from the June version of the Secure Public
Networks Act (McCain-Kerrey Bill S.909), the revised draft bill 
now being circulated that Declan quoted:

TITLE I - DOMESTIC USES OF ENCRYPTION
�
SEC. 101. LAWFUL USE OF ENCRYPTION.
 
Except as otherwise provided by this Act or otherwise provided by law, 
it shall be lawful for any person within any State to use any encryption, 
regardless of encryption algorithm selected, encryption key length 
chosen, or implementation technique or medium used.
�
SEC. 102. PROHIBITION ON MANDATORY THIRD PARTY ESCROW 
OF KEYS USED FOR ENCRYPTION OF CERTAIN COMMUNICATIONS.

Neither the Federal Government nor a State may require the escrow of 
an encryption key with a third party in the case of an encryption key 
used solely to encrypt communications between private persons within 
the United States.
�
SEC. 103. VOLUNTARY PRIVATE SECTOR PARTICIPATION IN KEY
MANAGEMENT STRUCTURE.

The participation of the private persons in the key management 
infrastructure enabled by this Act is voluntary.

----------

For full text of the June version:

     http://jya.com/s909.htm







From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Sep  6 06:58:00 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:58:00 +0800
Subject: DCSB: Boston D-H expiration Party at Doyles on Saturday.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 10:38 pm -0400 on 9/5/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:


> Whoops! My fault. I thought you were and said that to Peter this
> morning...

That's okay, so did we. :-).

Peter's call mostly just forced the issue and made me get off the dime to
make something we'd been talking about. I suppose if anyone else had called
me the same thing would have happened.

Life imitates art imitating life, I guess.

In hindsight, I think having a beer at Doyle's is a much better way to do
this, anyway.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From brianbr at together.net  Sat Sep  6 07:43:39 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:43:39 +0800
Subject: New GAK Bill
Message-ID: <199709061414.KAA14770@mx02.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 9/6/97 9:08 AM, John Young (jya at pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:

>For a legal analysis of why mandatory domestic key escrow would 
>not (most likely) be constitutional for non-commercial messages, 
>see parts III & IV of:

  What I would like to know is how they can justify imposing it on
messages between individuals and corporations or corporations to
corporations. It also occurs to me that if such communications were
within state boundries might not that further restrict where they can
put their nose? In they end they most likely will do as they please,
but usually they try to start with some semblance of legal
constitutional foundation ... this time they seem to have gone for the
throat in the first inning, the Constitution be damned ...

  I see, despite the wording of the McCain-Kerry, that after they have
that in place, they will then coming whining that because the private
sector is excluded that all these bad people are doing an endrun, so
we need to bring them in under the umbrella of GAK ...  ... 'up
the revolution!'


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Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
       For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
 "It would take an archimedean fulcrum to raise you to the level of
  total depravity" --Thomas E. Carney, ca. 1920







From Syniker at aol.com  Sat Sep  6 08:00:28 1997
From: Syniker at aol.com (Syniker at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:00:28 +0800
Subject: LYING FUCKS! / Behind the ELECTROMAGNETIC CURTAIN
Message-ID: <970906104600_-1736182624@emout18.mail.aol.com>



alright... i finally figured a way around ctrl-alt-delete on my
aol account here, so here is my first post...
bear with an old fart, who is trying to learn encryption... and who when
he does, will pass it along to whoever he can...

yes -- we need to do ALL these things... but we need to do it ...
ENCRYPTED... by as many as possible... as SOON as possible...

the thing that is missing here -- to beat freeh and the other freaks...
is that PGP -- or whatever -- must be POPULARIZED -- and by
that, i mean -- the 'learning and doing' -- an encrypted email...
must be made easy enough -- so that the average aol user...
will -- FIRST -- think it's something they should have and use...
and SECOND ... they'll have a way they can use it quickly and easily...

figure it this way -- if you could get ALL nine million aol users....
to send an encrypted email -- on the SAME day .... to everyone
in gov that says FUCK OFF -- NO WAY MY KEY....
what the fuck is the gov gonna do about it??????

as in the internet at large, and the WWW -- it is the sheer number of
us 'users' ... that is scaring shit out of govs everywhere...

but right now -- they have a big, big advantage.....
they are using the time-honored principle of 'divide-and-conquer' ...
to extreme advantage -- and it is one that we can take from them
with a little thought, organization, and planning.......

the fight against CDA was greatly helped with the co-operative
'black-out' pages.... and that's the general idea....

whoever can write an icon-based gui -- point and click -- that will
encrypt and send an email.... and includes an user friendly system
for email spam filters......... gee -- could make a small fortune...
[they are using 'spam' as a backdoor to GAK]

maybe it's already been done? -- I've got eudora lite w/pgp 
on board -- but no time to try it out yet.....

anyways -- dammit -- the key to this fight is in NUMBERS .......

if I was even forty or so -- I'd try it myself....
it's REAL important.......

ldm






From Syniker at aol.com  Sat Sep  6 08:07:12 1997
From: Syniker at aol.com (Syniker at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:07:12 +0800
Subject: Political News from Wired News
Message-ID: <970906105358_284527778@emout18.mail.aol.com>



In a message dated 97-09-06 07:15:18 EDT, vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z.
Nuri) writes:

<< maybe I'm not following closely enough, but I haven't seen a *single* 
 reference. that's really eerie. can't we get a *single* 
 senator to bring up that issue? >>

me neither... it's fucking mind-boggling....
and where's all the 'censorship' people????
it's like -- no one can make the 'connection' ....
the CDA and FCA lists are dead ... not a word ...
how can we all have wet powder at the same time?

is Leahy saying anything? .... i'll find his site and see.....

ldm






From phoenix at cutey.com  Sat Sep  6 09:18:44 1997
From: phoenix at cutey.com (Irwan Hadi)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:18:44 +0800
Subject: Please show me these encryption algorithms
In-Reply-To: <19970906040906.29100.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970906220951.04eec26c@mail.bit.net.id>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 21:09 05/09/97 PDT, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
>Does anybody know RC4,RC2,CDMF,MISTY,MULTI2 encryption algorithms?
>If you know these encryption algorithms,
>Please show me these encryption algorithms.
I think better for you if you go to http://www.pgpi.com
There you can search and find some documentations about it.
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From phoenix at cutey.com  Sat Sep  6 09:18:48 1997
From: phoenix at cutey.com (Irwan Hadi)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:18:48 +0800
Subject: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge
In-Reply-To: <2C5khz1Qq/5Whpq4Zl9wkQ==@bureau42.ml.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970906213620.04c47ccc@mail.bit.net.id>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 17:31 05/09/97 GMT, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
>Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
>MessageID: od2CIT3fELE7K6bkIkKGJBj0MPUJ2TT8
>
>hQCMA6ozRjzmqceZAQQAh02x0Dxer5vzZiSJ+v7bnMZQdgp425z5OH0NF/f/mXXc
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>BAH3CFNKcmYjf+VtpjAVOpDNM/PMm1e6m33rZ01Sq6pXC0TTabCf7hkWscet0PCL
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>CarVigVaRh6tCgh0jub7CHuDFg==
>=Q9+G
>-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
>

Hey if you want really to crack the message, GIVE US YOUR Public key, 
which use to encrypt it, from it. we can calculate the factor and 
open it.

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Hc7yhtsdpZpv6sbhqyVk9ok=
=byDp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From declan at well.com  Sat Sep  6 09:24:34 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:24:34 +0800
Subject: CDT on "useless crypto legislation"
Message-ID: 





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:53:34 -0400
From: Jonah Seiger 
To: declan at well.com, tbetz at pobox.com
Cc: fight-censorship at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Useless Crypto Legislation -- NYT reference (Was: Radical Crypto

At 12:57 AM -0400 9/6/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> This is a surprise?
>>
>> To whom?
>
>To be fair, I was going through my crypto-history this evening and noted
>Brock wrote about a similar proposal two and a half years ago... Hardly a
>surprise to any of us.

Not a surprise in the sense that we all knew the FBI would propose
something like this sooner or later. None-the-less, this is a significant
new threat and it would be a very very dangerous for us to underestimate it.

The House Intelligence and National Security Committees are voting on SAFE
next week.  The FBI's draft is no doubt part of the Administration's effort
to gut the bill.  We should expect that this language will be offered at
one or both of those committee votes, and that it stands a good chance of
being adopted.

That sets up an all out fight on the House floor, and a very tough fight.
The debate has changed -- it's now about defeating mandatory key recovery.

VTW and CDT have issued an ALERT and are urging Internet users to contact
their Representatives on the Intelligence and National Security Committees.
Visit http://www.crypto.com/adopt for details.

Kudos to Brock for a great piece.

Jonah


  * Value Your Privacy? The Government Doesn't.  Say 'No' to Key Escrow! *
            Adopt Your Legislator -  http://www.crypto.com/adopt

--
Jonah Seiger, Communications Director                  (v) +1.202.637.9800
Center for Democracy and Technology                 pager: +1.202.859.2151


http://www.cdt.org                                      PGP Key via finger
http://www.cdt.org/homes/jseiger/









From declan at well.com  Sat Sep  6 09:37:10 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:37:10 +0800
Subject: Crypto Hearings
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906161132.006eb860@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



In my post "Mandatory key escrow bill text" yesterday evening I included a
URL to a Reuters dispatch about the SAFE hearing on Sep 4. I also
forwarded the article to f-c, not sure about cypherpunks. 

The Sep 4 SAFE hearing seems to have been much more balanced than the
Senate one the day before. I don't have a transcript of it, though. 

Beware the National Security committee markup and vote on SAFE next week.
Mandatory key escrow is only one card the government has to play.

-Declan



On Sat, 6 Sep 1997, John Young wrote:

> Declan, or anyone, are there any transcipts of this SAFE hearing,
> or news reports, or other documents:
> 
> September 4, 1997
> 
> SECURITY AND FREEDOM THROUGH ENCRYPTION ACT
> 
> Committee on Commerce: Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade, and 
> Consumer Protection held a hearing on H.R. 695, Security and Freedom 
> Through encryption (SAFE) Act. Testimony was heard from Representatives 
> Goodlatte and Lofgren; William P. Cowell, Deputy Director, NSA, 
> Department of Defense; William A. Reinsch, Under Secretary, Export 
> Administration, Department of Commerce; Robert S. Litt, Deputy 
> Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Justice; 
> and public witnesses.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> And for these of the coming week:
> 
> Congressional Record: September 5, 1997 (Digest):
>  
>                       CONGRESSIONAL PROGRAM AHEAD
> 
>                   Week of September 8 through 13, 1997
> 
> [Excerpts]
>                            House Committees
> 
>   Committee on National Security, September 9, to markup H.R. 695, 
> Security and Freedom Through Encryption (SAFE) Act, 1 p.m., 2118 
> Rayburn.
> 
>   Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, September 9, 
> executive, hearing on Encryption legislation, 10 a.m., H-405 
> Capitol.
>   September 11, executive, to markup Encryption legislation, 10 
> a.m., H-405 Capitol.
> 
>   Committee on Science, September 10, hearing on Next Generation 
> Internet Initiative, 10 a.m., 2318 Rayburn.
> 
>   September 11, Subcommittee on Courts and Intellectual Property, 
> hearing on H.R. 2265, No Electronic Theft (NET) Act, and also on 
> electronic copyright piracy, 10 a.m., 2237 Rayburn.
> 
>   September 11, Subcommittee on Crime, hearing regarding cellular 
> telephone fraud, 9:30 a.m., 2141 Rayburn.
> 
>                            Senate Committees
> 
>   Select Committee on Intelligence: September 10, to hold a closed 
> briefing on intelligence matters, 2:30 p.m., SH-219.
> 
>   Committee on Labor and Human Resources: September 11, to hold 
> hearings to examine the confidentiality of medical information, 10 
> a.m., SD-430.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Sep  6 09:39:41 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:39:41 +0800
Subject: Crypto Hearings
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906161132.006eb860@pop.pipeline.com>



Declan, or anyone, are there any transcipts of this SAFE hearing,
or news reports, or other documents:

September 4, 1997

SECURITY AND FREEDOM THROUGH ENCRYPTION ACT

Committee on Commerce: Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade, and 
Consumer Protection held a hearing on H.R. 695, Security and Freedom 
Through encryption (SAFE) Act. Testimony was heard from Representatives 
Goodlatte and Lofgren; William P. Cowell, Deputy Director, NSA, 
Department of Defense; William A. Reinsch, Under Secretary, Export 
Administration, Department of Commerce; Robert S. Litt, Deputy 
Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Justice; 
and public witnesses.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And for these of the coming week:

Congressional Record: September 5, 1997 (Digest):
 
                      CONGRESSIONAL PROGRAM AHEAD

                  Week of September 8 through 13, 1997

[Excerpts]
                           House Committees

  Committee on National Security, September 9, to markup H.R. 695, 
Security and Freedom Through Encryption (SAFE) Act, 1 p.m., 2118 
Rayburn.

  Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, September 9, 
executive, hearing on Encryption legislation, 10 a.m., H-405 
Capitol.
  September 11, executive, to markup Encryption legislation, 10 
a.m., H-405 Capitol.

  Committee on Science, September 10, hearing on Next Generation 
Internet Initiative, 10 a.m., 2318 Rayburn.

  September 11, Subcommittee on Courts and Intellectual Property, 
hearing on H.R. 2265, No Electronic Theft (NET) Act, and also on 
electronic copyright piracy, 10 a.m., 2237 Rayburn.

  September 11, Subcommittee on Crime, hearing regarding cellular 
telephone fraud, 9:30 a.m., 2141 Rayburn.

                           Senate Committees

  Select Committee on Intelligence: September 10, to hold a closed 
briefing on intelligence matters, 2:30 p.m., SH-219.

  Committee on Labor and Human Resources: September 11, to hold 
hearings to examine the confidentiality of medical information, 10 
a.m., SD-430.









From tcmay at got.net  Sat Sep  6 09:51:18 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:51:18 +0800
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world
In-Reply-To: <970906105358_284527778@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: 



At 7:54 AM -0700 9/6/97, Syniker at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-06 07:15:18 EDT, vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z.
>Nuri) writes:
>
><< maybe I'm not following closely enough, but I haven't seen a *single*
> reference. that's really eerie. can't we get a *single*
> senator to bring up that issue? >>
>
>me neither... it's fucking mind-boggling....
>and where's all the 'censorship' people????
>it's like -- no one can make the 'connection' ....
>the CDA and FCA lists are dead ... not a word ...
>how can we all have wet powder at the same time?

I didn't see Detweiler's original message ('til just now), but I think this
is wrong, the "I haven't seen a *single*  reference" (to the
constitutionality of mandatory key escrow).

In some of the accounts of the Freeh-Feinstein-etc. colloquy, there were
mentions that mandatory key escrow probably would be desirable, but
probably not be possible. (I took this to mean they, including Freeh,
recognized it would be unconstitutional).

Of course, then the draft text of the GAK bill floated by the next day, and
it of course contained no references to constitutionality (not
surprisingly, as draft bills are not self-analyses).

Despite my cynicism, I'd expect the courts to issue an immediate stay on
enforcement on such a law, as happened with the CDA. With probably an
expedited hearing before the Supreme Court. As so many have noted, it seems
to be a slam dunk infringement on the right to speak freely and in whatever
language one wishes. And some 4th and 5th and other involvements.

It may be a stalking horse. A threat. Designed to force a compromise. "If
you don't pass McCain-Kerrey, this is what you'll get."

A helluva way to run a country, er, a world.

But look on the bright side: the militias and other patriot groups are
getting a huge bounce out of this. Stay far away from the nests of vipers.
Jefferson's wisdom that we need a revolution every generation or so is
apt...though it's been about 180 years too long.

Now even those, like Sternlight, who claimed the government would never
require key escrow, have to admit we were right all along.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Sep  6 10:01:20 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:01:20 +0800
Subject: Cyber Threat Fud
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906163543.006eb860@pop.pipeline.com>



WaPo mocks today a prez panel's gurglng for a $1B 
"cyber security" cleaver to lop-hand the world's 
HRH Harry-Hackers:

   http://jya.com/pccipower.htm

Read how 3xlegal-limit limo-liz-NSA hot-wires dire 
Di-car-alarms, pillar plow not, how to shuck for 
xtra bux spying foes inside your Net warfare.






From scannmann at nevwest.com  Sun Sep  7 01:05:52 1997
From: scannmann at nevwest.com (scannmann at nevwest.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:05:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Money, Sex, Technology and Home Bus
Message-ID: <199709070804.BAA08120@desertinn.nevwest.com>


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From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Sat Sep  6 10:52:42 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:52:42 +0800
Subject: Is Diana News?
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Tim May wrote:
> There have been a bunch of messages about this. Some satirical, some
> serious. I've avoided any comment (so far as I remember).
> But is it news?
> I think so.
> Not necessarily for Cypherpunks....

> This story involves many interesting issues--freedom of speech,
> rights of privacy, the accomplishments of Diana, the issue Toto
> raised that Diana is surely a better role model than Diane
> (Feinstein), the monarchy, the boycott of tabloids, etc.

I would go farther than Tim on this one.  We Cypherpunks should
concern ourselves with the means traditionally and currently used to
maintain social order.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html

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From jf_avon at citenet.net  Sat Sep  6 10:57:32 1997
From: jf_avon at citenet.net (jf_avon at citenet.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:57:32 +0800
Subject: Excerpts from Cdn-Firearms Digest V1 #978
In-Reply-To: <199709060107.TAA25737@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Message-ID: <199709061745.NAA10147@cti06.citenet.net>



On  5 Sep 97 at 19:07, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote:


------ Forwarded message ---------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:07:19 -0600 
From: Karl Schrader  
Subject: Bill C-95

Re.: recent amendment to Criminal Code, Bill C-95
--------------------------------------------------------------
Did any legal expert analyse the recent amendment to the
Criminal Code regarding  the mere membership in an organization
consisting of more than 5 people which imposes a penalty in prison
from 5 to 14 years if any mischief is even mentioned?

This amendment is aimed at the biker gangs, however, the way it
is worded, it can be applied to any group, be they environmenta-
lists, unionists, recreational firearms owners, birdwatchers or even
stampcollectors where the mere mentioning of mischief is ground
enough to face 5-14 years in jail.

This development here in Canada is truly frightening and is remi-
niscent of a movie called "Judgement at Nuremburg" with Spencer
Tracey and Burt Lancaster, where Burt Lancaster played a
German Judge under Hitler, who applied all kinds of  laws, created
by the Nazis, which were clearly against common sense and
human values and utterly repressive. These laws were pushed
through the German puppet parliament by the then party in
power. We are all aware of what happened in the end to this
regime. Several thousand Canadians, however, had to make the
supreme sacrifice to eliminate this evil and now it rears it's ugly
head here in Canada .

This amendment was the subject of a radio interview this morning
with a defence lawyer on CBC 2. The lawyer was utterly shocked
at what can be done with this legislation and strongly expected a
charter challenge. Unfortunately this will require again enormous
amounts of funds to be wasted in a completely unproductive and
wasteful manner. Why are we constantly running up against laws
which have to be challenged  ?  Why can the new laws not be
drafted in a way that they are charterproof ? Just imagine if we
did not even have the Charter. The people who are drafting the
laws and are getting paid good salaries can not all be idiots ?
And what about the parliamentarians who pass these laws ?

One does not need a gun to destroy a human life, all that is
needed is a repressive law. Let someone with a criminal record
just try to get a job when he comes out of jail.

"" If it saves only one life !" (Wendy C.....)

FOCUS: If 97% of Canadians are being pushed around by 3%,
              there is something seriously wrong !!

-- 
Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds(Montreal) QC Canada
 DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee
    Finest of Limoges porcelain and crystal
 JFA Technologies, R&D consultants
    physicists and engineers, LabView programing.
PGP encryption keys at:
   http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon
   http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
ID# C58ADD0D  : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
ID# 5B51964D  : 152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Sat Sep  6 10:58:07 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:58:07 +0800
Subject: It's Now or Never
Message-ID: 



> 5 September 1997, MSNBC:
> FBI Director Louis Freeh floats a new proposal at a congressional 
> hearing to outlaw non-breakable crypto products.

  We have already been declared 'Future Outlaws' by one of the major
figureheads of the secret government.
  I am not waiting until 1999 to 'officially' become an outlaw. I am
starting today.
  If we have learned but one from our journey to this point in time,
it should be that by the time it's 'official', it's too late...

TheLastCanadianOutlaw






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Sep  6 10:58:44 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:58:44 +0800
Subject: Democracy is the true enemy, and anarchists fight the true enemy
In-Reply-To: <199709060107.TAA25737@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Message-ID: 



At 11:42 AM -0700 9/6/97, jf_avon at citenet.net wrote:
>On  5 Sep 97 at 19:07, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote:
>------ Forwarded message ---------
>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:07:19 -0600
>From: Karl Schrader 
>Subject: Bill C-95
>
>Re.: recent amendment to Criminal Code, Bill C-95
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Did any legal expert analyse the recent amendment to the
>Criminal Code regarding  the mere membership in an organization
>consisting of more than 5 people which imposes a penalty in prison
>from 5 to 14 years if any mischief is even mentioned?
>
>This amendment is aimed at the biker gangs, however, the way it
>is worded, it can be applied to any group, be they environmenta-
>lists, unionists, recreational firearms owners, birdwatchers or even
>stampcollectors where the mere mentioning of mischief is ground
>enough to face 5-14 years in jail.

The United States does not yet have anything quite this repugnant, though
I'm sure Janet Reno, Louis Freeh, and William Clinton are working on a
draft of a bill to do something similar.

The Anti-Terrorism Act of 1995, though apparently not being used in any
significant way (yet), would have done some of the same sorts of things. If
an organization was declared to be a terrorist-supporting organization,
various sanctions would have applied to those who contributed money or
certain other types of aid to such organizations. As others have noted, the
Bureau of Thought Crimes has not yet issued a list of which organizations
are considered terrorist.

(One of my fondest hopes is that the Cypherpunks group makes this list. I'm
hoping that enough support of various types provided to freedom fighters in
the ZOG sections of Palestine will get us on this list. I'm itching for a
confrontation with the jack-booted thugs, as you may know.)

>FOCUS: If 97% of Canadians are being pushed around by 3%,
>              there is something seriously wrong !!

Be very, very, very careful of this sort of "democracy" emphasis, as it is
quite likely that the "majority of the sheeple" support the disarming of
Canadian citizens and the crackdown on "gangs and other scum organizations"
by the Mounties.

Never place any faith in democracy. The sheeple will eventually vote to
have their liberties taken away for their own good. Espeically the
liberties of others.

Democracy is the true enemy. Anarchists fight the true enemy.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Sep  6 11:21:45 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 02:21:45 +0800
Subject: Democracy is the true enemy, and anarchists fight the true enemy (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709061824.NAA23842@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:53:57 -0700
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Democracy is the true enemy, and anarchists fight the true enemy

> Democracy is the true enemy. Anarchists fight the true enemy.

Oh pooh. Spare us the spin doctor diatribe...

Anarchist are interested in protecting only their own person and
possessions over and above all other factors. Furthermore, it in no way
protects from oppression at the individual or social level. The only thing
it does is guarantee that I will have to spend a great deal of my income
on protection, most folks have something better to do with their time than
participate in a system that believes the height of personal achievment is
to sit around and stroke your gun looking for trespassers on their property.
Try explaining how an anarchy is going to better protect my right to free
speech or the economic and social stability required to carry on a business?

Democracy <> Mob Rule

Something you just don't seem to get.

A good measure of the oppressive level in a given government is to examine
who owns property versus who manages it.

Type:                            Owner:             Manager:

Communism                        Govt.              Govt.

Fascist                          Indiv.             Govt.

Democracy                        Indiv. <> Shared   Indiv. <> Shared

Anarchy                          N/A                N/A

Changes in this relationship seem to be a good measure. For example consider
the level of change in ownership rights before and after the changes in the
confiscation laws. If one thinks of speech as a commodity this also holds.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |    The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there   |
   |    be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       -Alan Greenspan-             |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http:// www.ssz.com/  |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From ravage at ssz.com  Sat Sep  6 11:54:27 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 02:54:27 +0800
Subject: New Contact Info... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709061855.NAA23960@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:
>From ravage at ssz.com Sat Sep  6 13:51:44 1997
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199709061851.NAA23913 at einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: New Contact Info...
To: users at ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:51:37 -0500 (CDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2924      



             "Reality is observer dependant"
                              \
                                \   \\/////
                                    |     | 
                                    (.) (.)
      ===========================oOO==(_)==OOo==========================             

                                  James Choate

         Tivoli Systems, Inc.                   The Armadillo Group
         Senior Support Engineer                SOHO - Internet - Technology

         9442 Capitol of Texas Highway North    608 E. 48th.
         Suite 500                              Austin, TX  78751  
         Austin, TX 78759

         Email: jchoate at tivoli.com              Email: ravage at ssz.com
         Phone: 512-436-8893                    Phone: 512-451-7087
         Fax:   512-345-2784                    Fax:   n/a
         WWW:   www.tivoli.com                  WWW:   www.ssz.com
         Modem: n/a                             Modem: 512-451-7009
         Pager: 888-902-7999                    Pager: n/a
         Cellular: n/a                          Cellular: n/a

      ===================================================================

         Political ideal: The Constitution says "Congress shall make
                          no law..." & What happened to the 9th &
                          10th Amendments?

         Philosophy: Pantheism - the belief that everything is divine,
                                 that God is not seperate but totaly
                                 identified with the cosmos, and that
                                 God does not possess personality or
                                 transcendence.

         Favorite Cartoon - Danger Mouse & Mighty Mouse (the original)

      ===================================================================


            The end of our exploring will be to arrive at where we
            started, and to know the place for the first time.

                                                 T.S. Eliot

      ===================================================================

                            Adopt, adapt, improvise!

                                                  Anonymous

      ===================================================================

            For a succesful technology, reality must take precedence
            over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

                                               Richard Feynman

      ===================================================================

            Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the
            government of himself.  Can he, then, be trusted with
            the government of others? Or have we found angels in the
            forms of kings to govern him?  Let history answer this
            question.

                             Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Addr






From junger at upaya.multiverse.com  Sat Sep  6 12:01:09 1997
From: junger at upaya.multiverse.com (Peter D. Junger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:01:09 +0800
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709061848.OAA16428@upaya.multiverse.com>




I am not sure how serious the proposed FBI-backed bill is.  It may
just be intended as a bargaining chip.  Or perhaps its sponsors are
as clueless about contitutional law as they are about cryptography and
how computers work.

It is conceivable that the courts might uphold (a carefully drafted)
law regulating the _use_ of cryptographic software, but the proposed
bill does not do that.  Instead it provides:

        (b) As of January 1, 1999, it shall be unlawful for any
        person to manufacture for sale or distribution within
        the U.S., distribute within the U.S., sell within the
        U.S., or import into the U.S., any product that can be
        used to encrypt communications or electronic
        information, unless that product:

         (1) includes features, such as key recovery, trusted 
         third party compatibility or other means, that

          (A) permit immediate decryption upon receipt of
          decryption information by an authorized party without
          the knowledge or cooperation of the person using such
          encryption product; and

          (B) is either enabled at the time of manufacture,
          distribution, sale, or import, or may be enabled by the
          purchase or end user; or

         (2) can be used only on systems or networks that include
         features, such as key recovery, trusted third party
         compatibility or other means, that permit immediate
         decryption by an authorized party without the knowledge
         or cooperation of the person using such encryption
         product.
 
But notice that the ``products'' that are described here are actually
software, are computer programs.  (I suppose that some products could
be physical devices with the programs hard-wired or in firmware, and
to the extent that there are such devices the following analysis may
not be applicable.)

Now, although it is possible that Judge Freeh and Senator Feinstein are
not aware of the fact, computer programs are written and published, and
they certainly are not ``manufactured'' in any accepted meaning of that
word, and their writing and publication is---as Judge Patel just held
once again---protected by the First Amendment to the United States
Constitution like any other writing or publication.  It may, as I said,
be possible under the Constitution to regulate the use of cryptographic
software, but to forbid the publication (distribution, sale, or import)
of software because its content is unpleasing to the government is a
blatant violation of the First Amendment.

Yet the draftsmen of the Bill do not purport to regulate the use of
cryptographic software, they only purport to forbid its publication.

Which I find strange.

What I also find strange is that the ardent opponents of the CDA do
not seem much disturbed by such a proposed violation of the First
Amendment, or by the present constitutional violations embodied in the
``export'' regulations on encrption software that are being challenged
in the _Bernstein_ and _Junger_ cases.  Somehow those who care about
the right of programmers to express their ideas and to publish the 
software that they write have failed miserably in explaining to the
public, including those organizations that have traditionally been
concerned with protecting civil liberties, that programs are written
and published like any other text.

Part of the problem may be that those who publish software
commercially would rather be thought of---and regulated
as---manufacturers.  The last thing that they want is for people to
start claiming a first amendment right to read their programms and to
copy the ideas, or criticize the expression of the ideas, that are
buried there.  To the software moguls ``free speech'' must sound an 
awful lot like ``free software''.  And, however distasteful they may
find the proposed legislation, it at least has the virtue of making it 
illegal to import or distribute Linux.  And the nice thing about 
regulations of the sort proposed is that they raise insurmountable
barriers for any competitor who hopes to enter the market place for
computer software.

Another reason that there may not be so much concern among traditional
civil libertarians about the First Amendment implications of this
proposed crypto legislation or of the export regulations on encryption
software is that---as hard as it may be for the denizens of this list
to comprehend---they are simply not interested in cryptography.

But the constitutional issues raised by the proposed bill and the
export regulations on cryptographic software implicate all software,
not just encryption software.  For whatever else it may be, all
software is functional, and the government's argument comes down to
the claim that they can censor software because it is functional and
that ``functionality'' is not protected by the First Amendment.  Thus,
according to the arguments that have been made by the President
himself, it would be perfectly constitutional for the government, in
order to encourage efficiency and interoperability, to forbid the
publication of any software that does not comply with the Windows 95
``standard''.

Here is what President Clinton had to say when he transferred the
regulation of cryptographic software from the Department of State to
the Department of Commerce:

 Because the export of encryption software, like the export of other
 encryption products described in this section, must be controlled
 because of such software's functional capacity, rather than because
 of any possible informational value of such software, such software
 shall not be considered or treated as ``technology,'' as that term is
 defined in section 16 of the EAA (50 U.S.C. App. 2415) and in the EAR
 (61 Fed. Reg. 12714, March 25,
 1996)[.]
 
Don't you find that rather frightening?

--
Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
 EMAIL: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu    URL:  http://samsara.law.cwru.edu   
     NOTE: junger at pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists






From roach_s at alph.swosu.edu  Sat Sep  6 12:38:09 1997
From: roach_s at alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:38:09 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching you watch Farenheit 451
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970906142352.18e791e6@alph.swosu.edu>



At 05:56 PM 9/5/97 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
>
...
>BTW, the last copy of F451 I saw really irked me - the cover had
>explanatory notes like "Fahrenheit 451, the temperature that books burn!"
>and stuff about firemen whose job is setting fires.  
>Are today's kids dumbing down, or less literate, or is it just enough
>longer since the book was written that publishers need to try harder to 
>get people to read it?

A varient on the third and the first.
The people now see this and say "so what?, the school boards decision to get
rid of Mark Twain is over a year old."  They see the simple title and don't
see the same high octane comments that they see on movie posters.  "burn,
and fire" probably selling at least 5% more books.
That and even though they realize that a lot of it is old news to them.  It
happened within thier lifetime without thier realizing it.
Everyone, please send a recomendation to your senators and representatives
to please at least watch the movie variations of Farenheit 451 and 1984.
The fact that so much of what was depicted in these books was once fiction
should be noted and expressed.

If teenagers were informed that there was full-frontal-nudity in the 1984
movie, they might even be convinced to watch it.

I didn't see the Farenheit 451 movie, I read the book, I saw part of the
opening, saw one inconsistancy, (teacher where the neighbor was a student),
turned the PBS station off and went to bed.  So, I really don't know if
there is any good stuff there.  (Does the owner of the bible burn on screen?
Does the stand in for Guy Montag get killed on camera by the electric hound?
Does Guy Montag roast the fire chief alive, and do we get to see the flames?
Etc.)






From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Sat Sep  6 13:05:43 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:05:43 +0800
Subject: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge
Message-ID: 



> At 17:31 05/09/97 GMT, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
> >Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
> >MessageID: od2CIT3fELE7K6bkIkKGJBj0MPUJ2TT8
> >
> >hQCMA6ozRjzmqceZAQQAh02x0Dxer5vzZiSJ+v7bnMZQdgp425z5OH0NF/f/mXXc
> >vInw+UsuTXqWNEV5rEQKYjU3qHoe6suCz5f9hEEnOIBacsD28pYU4ahkGOCTuTY6
> >N3xKrtDRqLPInB8PY7Kfd56jjQsVVRKmJBwXqHbPax4YyUB6ZbKKvSPiuUsAAQSl
> >BAH3CFNKcmYjf+VtpjAVOpDNM/PMm1e6m33rZ01Sq6pXC0TTabCf7hkWscet0PCL
> >VX0l1Zw5IKaFqo+pZ3EICRMF6HQrc30G7L9TFeKr//3YsO3/bC4VBgNQHA0qf2nD
> >ldxAsTGPlRthBTxrzE0LjeOKi/pQOLXQMPQUwEIaL9rncjFgniplFoL6Nj0guJvW
> >VvS+gxth8hpeWss7WlFFioV0vShsS/lahA+eg/9nVy8ken8pr4m484w2vwoiSdce
> >CarVigVaRh6tCgh0jub7CHuDFg==
> >=Q9+G
> >-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
> >

I have brute-forced this message with my NSA-surplus CrayVax (TM) and
determined its contents are as follows:

Nuke Washington D.C.  Now.  Please.  Do it for me.
 -- TruthMonger

To the EFF (Electronic Forgery Foundation): Please get in contact with me via
the remailer network for instructions on where to send my $10M.

Here's my PLP key:

-----BEGIN PLP PRIVATE KEY-----
Version: Pretty Lousy Privacy v6.66
Comments: No Comment
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=zXsO
-----END PLP PRIVATE KEY-----






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From: kehazo at sprintmail.com (James)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:08:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unsecured Credit Card-Approval Guaranteed
Message-ID: <199709072034IAA38861@a001.sprintmail.com>


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From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Sep  6 13:29:49 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:29:49 +0800
Subject: Cpunks War Dance, Feinstein Hari-Kari
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906200748.0075110c@pop.pipeline.com>



http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/090697patent.html

A Patent Falls, and the Internet Dances

By Peter Wayner

>From the beginning, though, patent 4,200,770 was different. This
Saturday night a group of computer scientists, Internet fanatics and
Beltway politicos will gather in Washington, D.C.; Silicon Valley; and
Boston to celebrate the end of the patent granted to Whitfield Diffie
and Martin Hellman for a way to encrypt data. 

----------

http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/090697feinstein.html

Feinstein's Remarks Rankle Constituents 

By Laurie J. Flynn

If Dianne Feinstein, California's voice in the U.S. Senate, were
looking for the fastest way to alienate her most powerful block of
voters, she may have found it this week. 







From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Sat Sep  6 14:38:02 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:38:02 +0800
Subject: Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem
In-Reply-To: <19970906073720.3185.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970906142615.0069ff20@popd.ix.netcom.com>



At 12:37 AM 9/6/97 PDT, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
>GCC(Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem)
>GCC uses the newest chaos logic and is conventional cryptosystem 
>stream cipher encryption. It is high speed and allows variable-length keys,
>making it very reliable and suitable for use in multimedia.
>http://www.iisi.co.jp/reserch/GCC-over.htm
>[Products using it, user-friendliness, etc.]

Good user interfaces and high speed are important, but not enough.
How strong is the cypher?  Where is the academic research behind it?
What is the algorithm?  Why should we trust it?  Who else has tested it?
Other people have built cyphers based on chaotic systems, and found
they were weak when analyzed properly.  Building good cryptosystems is
difficult.

The web page doesn't give any details about the algorithm,
except saying that it uses chaos and strange attractors,
uses variable-length keys, and has a structure that uses
XOR of the stream cypher with the plaintext.
It does say the algorithm has a 0-1 balance of 0.5/0.5 
(which any good cryptosystems do) and has a medium-sized state space (2**96).

It claims that because it's a one-way stream cypher, that makes it
safe against chosen plaintext attacks.  That's not true.
Choose a plaintext of all zeros, and that gives you the
output of the chaotic system which you can analyze for patterns.
If you know the structure of the chaotic system, you can
analyze the mathematics to see how to find the state space,
and how to find the future output from the current output and
the state space - if the algorithm is strong, this is difficult,
but if the algorithm is weak, this is easy.  If you don't publish
the algorithm, nobody can prove that it's strong, and in the
world of cryptosystems, that means nobody will trust it,
because we know how weak many other strong-looking algorithms are.







From ghio at temp0110.myriad.ml.org  Sat Sep  6 14:54:55 1997
From: ghio at temp0110.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:54:55 +0800
Subject: Usenet Propagation Sucks
In-Reply-To: <199709052156.OAA11226@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <199709062147.OAA21756@myriad>



Mark Hedges  wrote:

> In practice, it's really tough to keep a good feed going. We happen
> to keep the alt.anon* stuff for a longer period of time.

As do I.  The use of alt.anonymous.messages as an anonymous message pool
has become quite popular lately, to the point where the traffic often
reaches several MB per day.


> We've started keeping individual groups longer as requested by readers.
> This makes them happy, for the most part. It needs so much disk! We have
> two incoming server feeds and three outgoing and people still complain
> that their groups don't have enough messages for their liking.
...
> A server would need terabyte upon terabyte to store a good archive
> of Usenet for, say, the past year.

Actually, I am suprised at how small a segment of the internet populace
actually posts.  Can you imagine what would happen if a hundred million
people posted every day?  You'd need a terabyte for just one day!

One nice thing is that it is highly redundant, most usenet traffic can
be compressed by a 4:1 ratio.  You could probably fit your one-year
archive into a few hundred GB.

Long-term, it would probably be more reasonable to have people just store
and forward the groups that they are interested in, more like mailing
lists.  But I must admit that I read this list via nntp, because it's
just so much easier to have everything in one place, so until things
seriously break, I suspect most people will want to have big nntp servers
with everything on them.






From enoch at zipcon.net  Sat Sep  6 14:57:37 1997
From: enoch at zipcon.net (Mike Duvos)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:57:37 +0800
Subject: Bill C-95
Message-ID: <19970906214616.11123.qmail@zipcon.net>



jf_avon at citenet.net writes:

 > FOCUS: If 97% of Canadians are being pushed around by 3%,
 > there is something seriously wrong !!

If 0.00001% of a society is being pushed around by 99.99999%,
there is something seriously wrong.

The most important part of any democracy are the checks and
balances which prevent the majority from imposing their will on
the minority over things which are none of the majority's
business.

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     enoch at zipcon.com   $    via Finger                       $
         {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}






From tcmay at got.net  Sat Sep  6 15:40:42 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 06:40:42 +0800
Subject: Cpunks War Dance, Feinstein Hari-Kari
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906200748.0075110c@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



At 1:07 PM -0700 9/6/97, John Young wrote:
>http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/090697patent.html
>
>A Patent Falls, and the Internet Dances
>
>By Peter Wayner
>
>>From the beginning, though, patent 4,200,770 was different. This
>Saturday night a group of computer scientists, Internet fanatics and
>Beltway politicos will gather in Washington, D.C.; Silicon Valley; and
>Boston to celebrate the end of the patent granted to Whitfield Diffie
>and Martin Hellman for a way to encrypt data.


Sounds to me like this reporter helped manufacture the news.....

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

And puppets still dance....



There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu  Sat Sep  6 16:17:15 1997
From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (Damaged Justice)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:17:15 +0800
Subject: 076l-090597-idx.html
Message-ID: <199709062308.TAA18475@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>




   [1][LINK]
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   [2]Business Section: the latest business headlines, company profiles
   and advice for managing your money.
   
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   All Business stories and columns from [4]this morning's Washington
   Post and an image of the Business section front.
   
   [5][ISMAP]-[6][USEMAP]
     _________________________________________________________________
   
OTS Eyes Challenges of Rule-Making for `Virtual Banks'

   By Cindy Skrzycki
   Washington Post Staff Writer
   Friday, September 5, 1997; Page G01
   The Washington Post
   
   The advent of virtual banking -- in which customers may deal with
   their banks only through computers -- has prompted federal regulators
   to begin revamping existing rules regarding electronic transactions.
   
   Although banks have been dabbling in home banking and automated teller
   machines for more than a decade, only about 4 percent of U.S.
   households conduct their banking transactions online, and many of
   those may be doing such simple tasks as checking an account balance.
   
   Since 1995, two "cyberspace" banks have come online, offering services
   such as the electronic transfer of funds between accounts and bill
   paying on the Internet. Other more traditional banks are buying the
   same sorts of software to offer more electronic banking services to
   their customers, often as an adjunct to traditional services.
   
   Banking regulators expect electronic banking -- and the forms it will
   take -- to grow exponentially now that millions of Americans are
   hooked into the Internet.
   
   "We are examining whether there is anything in our rules that impedes
   electronic banking and the use of technology," said Nicholas Retsinas,
   director of the Office of Thrift Supervision, who is heading the
   agency on an interim basis. The OTS regulates 1,270 federally
   chartered savings banks and state-chartered savings and loans. "What
   can we do to facilitate the use of electronic banking?"
   
   Retsinas has written frequently about the expanding role of technology
   in banking, pointing out the profitability of using computers: A
   teller transaction can cost up to $2.93; an Internet transaction, 2
   cents.
   
   In April, the OTS began examining rules it has had on the books since
   the 1980s covering home banking, automated teller machines and data
   processing. "OTS is concerned that its current electronic banking
   regulations do not adequately address advances in technology and may
   impede prudent innovation by federal savings associations," the agency
   said, promising it will have a proposal ready next month.
   
   "We promulgated some rules where we wondered whether the language was
   appropriate, let alone the rule," Retinas said, referring to "data
   processing," a vintage term that hardly begins to capture the
   potential scope of electronic transactions.
   
   The agency also was confronted with an increasing number of questions
   by its banking constituency. Was it all right to offer Internet
   banking to depositors living abroad? Could savings and loans open
   accounts for customers or issue loans from remote electronic
   locations? What kinds of banking services could be offered over the
   Internet?
   
   These kinds of queries prompted the OTS to delve into several areas
   where current regulations are murky, or nonexistent. For example, the
   OTS is trying to figure out whether automated loan machines, which
   allow customers to apply and receive confirmation for a consumer loan
   at a site similar to an ATM, should be considered branches or
   something akin to an ATM -- though loans cannot now be originated at
   ATMs.
   
   The OTS also wonders whether its current regulation on home banking
   services covers transactions such as opening new accounts online or
   processing credit applications.
   
   The agency is considering the philosophical quandaries presented by
   the borderless nature of banking in cyberspace. How does a bank with
   no bricks and mortar define community for purposes of fulfilling
   mortgage-lending obligations to minority groups under federal laws
   such as the Community Reinvestment Act?
   
   "How does an institution demonstrate that is serving the credit needs
   of a widely dispersed customer base when there is little or no
   geographic proximity between its deposit customers and its loan
   customers?" the OTS asked.
   
   Then there are questions of security. The OTS wonders whether it
   should mandate a specific level of encryption to make transactions
   impenetrable or "rely on general safety and soundness principles to
   govern a safe system of operation?" Does it need separate regulations
   for various forms of electronic banking that might be done over the
   phone, with special software on a personal computer or on the
   Internet?
   
   Some of these questions the OTS has already had to answer.
   
   Since 1995, the OTS has approved two "Internet" banks -- Security
   First Network Bank (SFNB) in Atlanta and the Atlanta Internet Bank.
   Both offer an array of banking services and rates that are highly
   competitive with "real" banks.
   
   One of the first concerns that the OTS had was the security of systems
   used by the Internet banks. SFNB, for example, has about 12,000
   accounts and $44 million in deposits.
   
   To satisfy regulators that Security First could protect consumers'
   privacy and the sanctity of transactions being done via the Internet,
   the OTS asked Security First to "test the penetration capabilities,"
   of the bank, said Eric W. Hartz, president of SFNB. That's another way
   of saying the OTS wanted to make sure that Security First's Internet
   banking operations didn't become a playground for hackers. Atlanta
   Internet had to undergo a similar exercise to get approval from the
   OTS.
   
   Bankers, for the most part, think it's too early to write definitive
   rules for an area dominated by changing technology, although they
   would like some current OTS rules changed to accommodate different
   forms of electronic banking. They also said they hoped to see
   coordination between the OTS and other agencies that regulate banking,
   such as the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Federal
   Reserve Board.
   
   As Citibank noted in comments to the OTS, "We strongly encourage the
   adoption of broad enabling regulations and policy statements," but "we
   believe that the OTS should not at this time promulgate detailed
   presciptive or, worse yet, proscriptive rules affecting electronic
   banking activities."
   
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From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu  Sat Sep  6 16:20:15 1997
From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (Damaged Justice)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:20:15 +0800
Subject: tdc0997globe.html
Message-ID: <199709062313.TAA18510@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>




   #[1]HOME [2]COPYRIGHT
   
   [3][ISMAP]-[4][USEMAP] September
     _________________________________________________________________
   
World Wide Weight

     America's dominance of the Internet isn't just a cultural issue. It
     could pose an infrastructure nightmare. 
     
   
    By Andreas Evagora.
    Andreas Evagora is international editor for tele.com. He can be
    reached over the Internet at [5]aevagora at mcgraw-hill.com.
    
   The year is 1962. At a White House conference, aides warn President
   John F. Kennedy that the newly emerging global phone network isn't
   really global at all. Kennedy is told that almost every
   intercontinental phone call is funneled through the United Kingdom or
   one of the other former colonial powers, and that those countries
   control the lion's share of international cables. Fearing that the
   United States will be powerless in the new telecom era, the Kennedy
   administration decides to create Intelsat, an international satellite
   system that would quickly end the domination of the old powers over
   the global telecom network.
   
   Fast forward to 1997. International service providers find that the
   newly emerging global Internet isn't really global at all. Reports
   tell them that more than half of intra-European and intra-Asian
   traffic is funneled through the United States. Once predictable
   traffic patterns are going haywire, rendering established
   technological and economic models irrelevant.
   
   Right now, there is no Intelsat on the horizon to save the day for
   telecom providers outside the United States. In fact, far from
   globalizing, all the signs are that Internet backbone
   infrastructure--and the traffic running on it--will become even more
   U.S.-centric over the next few years. This isn't just about U.S.
   domination: Non-U.S. service providers are contributing greatly to the
   imbalance by hatching plans to add new capacity to the States rather
   than to other countries in their region. Underpinning that trend is
   the concentration of content in America (more than eight of 10 Web
   sites are in English) and the continued high price, poor quality, and
   lack of easily available infrastructure outside the United States.
   
   The increased concentration of infrastructure and traffic into the
   United States not only works against the distributed philosophy of the
   Internet but also threatens to endanger the 'Net's international
   growth and overwork the U.S. backbone to the point of exhaustion. "The
   Internet today is a hub-and-spoke system, with the U.S. at the center
   of the entire world," says Neil Tagare, chairman of CTR Group Ltd.
   (Woodcliff Lake, N.J.), which plans to build a new global fiber
   cabling network linking 175 countries. "That's not right,
   technologically or politically."
   
   Already, service providers report that Internet links to the U.S. are
   straining to stand up to growing traffic volumes, while demand for
   other regional and intercontinental links remains tepid. Around the
   globe, U.S.-bound capacity is at a premium, with developing nations
   clinging onto the 'Net by a thread. If they are lucky, Russia's 150
   million people will share 40 Mbit/s of international Internet capacity
   by next year. Today, India--a nation of 900 million--has just 10
   Mbit/s of Internet capacity to the U.S.--about as much available on a
   LAN supporting a few dozen workers in the United States. "The lack of
   non-U.S. infrastructure is holding back real growth of the 'Net in
   many regions," says Petri Ojala, technical director of the Finnish
   Commercial Internet Exchange (Helsinki, Finland). "If a regional
   Internet community is short of capacity, it simply cannot develop as
   it wants. Less capacity means less content, less innovation."
   
   If Internet infrastructure continues to be concentrated in the United
   States, some fear that the whole non-U.S. high-tech sector will be in
   grave danger. Because the 'Net is becoming a critical tool for
   software development, a concentration of capacity in the States might
   lead to a concentration of innovation there as well. To be sure, it's
   difficult to see how India's enormous software development industry
   can prosper with 'Net access that is far inferior to that of
   competitors in the United States.
   
   A few 'Net watchers warn that failure to address the Internet
   imbalance could put some nations at a political disadvantage as well.
   "What if a new U.S. government wanted to leverage its control of the
   Internet for political ends?" asks one executive at a non-U.S.
   Internet service provider. "If it wanted to embargo Cuba, it could use
   its influence to control Internet communications there."
   
   But the outlook for regional backbones is less than bright. Such
   networks are all but absent in Asia-Pacific, Latin America, and
   Africa, while backbones in Europe, where the World Wide Web was
   invented, offer no more than 2 Mbit/s of bandwidth (see
   [6]"Un-American Activities"). Compare that with backbone construction
   in the United States, where today's typical 622-Mbit/s backbones are
   expected to double in capacity next year.
   
   Interregional Internet connections also are sorely lacking. Almost
   every byte of traffic between continents passes through the United
   States, hopping over at least two backbone links on the way.
   Concurrently, non-U.S. network access points (NAPs), where Internet
   service providers exchange traffic, are small in both number and
   processing capacity. "If you were to squint at a map of the global
   Internet infrastructure, all lines would roll into the U.S.," says
   Robert Hagens, director of Internet engineering at MCI. "That's not a
   good way to build a network."
   
   Service providers have never quite faced anything like this before.
   Exponential demand for traffic to the United States is soaring, but
   investing more in these routes doesn't add significantly to the bottom
   line (some phone companies that are also Internet providers offer free
   local calling--and therefore free local access--to the Internet but
   still need to add extra capacity), and it only increases the
   dependency on the U.S. backbone. "Carriers are in a chicken-and-egg
   situation," says Chris Champion, senior consultant at The Yankee Group
   Europe (Watford, U.K.). "They only want to invest where there is a lot
   of traffic, but there won't be enough traffic until they upgrade the
   backbones."
   
   EUNet International B.V. (Amsterdam), the European backbone operator,
   this month is increasing its U.S.-bound capacity by 34 Mbit/s, to 72
   Mbit/s, to meet demand. But its intra-European backbone network, which
   comprises mainly 2-Mbit/s links, faces no capacity crunch. "We don't
   have any [intra-European] congestion problems whatsoever," says Wim
   Vink, the company's managing director.
   
   The problem is, the global Internet is running headlong into an
   international infrastructure regime that actually is causing
   congestion on intercontinental routes. Capacity planning and demand
   forecasts on these routes have been designed largely by monopolies
   around the predictable needs of a staid, 5 percent a year growth in
   traffic. Phone companies traditionally buy capacity on
   intercontintental cables 20 or 25 years ahead of time. That's not a
   strategy suited to the Internet; who knows what will happen when
   bandwidth-hungry voice and multimedia applications pile onto the 'Net,
   as they are expected to in coming years?
   
   Service providers already are feeling the tremors (see [7]"Borne in
   the U.S.A."). In the summer of last year, Internet traffic from Sweden
   to the United States was about half the volume of voice traffic
   between those two countries. By the end of 1996, data and voice
   traffic volumes on the Sweden- to-U.S. route were equal, and now data
   volume is double that of voice. Meanwhile, voice still accounts for
   the vast majority of traffic to neighboring Finland and Denmark.
   
   Traffic patterns between the world's two biggest economies also signal
   the changes that lie ahead. Kokusai Denshin Denwa Co. Ltd. (KDD,
   Tokyo), Japan's dominant international carrier, has 10 Mbit/s of
   Internet capacity to the United States and 15 Mbit/s to the rest of
   Asia. Yet the ratio of Internet traffic to the United States and to
   Asia is 8 to 1. "The situation is changing very quickly," says Hiroshi
   Kobayashi, the carrier's deputy director of Internet business. "Two
   years ago, the total ratio of traffic flow from the U.S. to Japan was
   4 to 1. Now, it is only 2 to 1." That means Japan is sending
   proportionally more traffic to the United States--a traffic shift
   directly attributable to the growth of the Internet.
   
   In Australia, Telstra Corp. Ltd. (Melbourne) is dealing with a
   U.S./Asia Internet traffic ratio of about 6.5 to 1. "I can deal with
   the 1--it's the 6.5 that is the problem," jokes John Hibbard, managing
   director of international carrier business. Telstra now has 130 Mbit/s
   of Internet capacity to the United States, compared with 2 Mbit/s to
   the rest of Asia. Still, Hibbard says of the U.S. route, "We will see
   a big squeeze in 1998." As a measure of just how high demand for
   bandwidth to the United States has been driven, Hibbard notes that
   bids for the 1,000 or so 2-Mbit/s circuits on the new transpacific
   TPC-5 cable, due to come into service at the end of this year, were
   oversubscribed by nearly four times. "The Asia-Pacific region must
   reduce its dependency on the United States to ensure that the quality
   of service is not dependent on the U.S. link, which is frequently
   congested," Hibbard says.
   
   That overdependency is creating an economic as well as a technical
   fallout. Non-U.S. carriers are investing in extra capacity to the
   United States, without seeing returns on that investment in terms of
   extra revenues. As a result, many international carriers--Telstra
   included--complain that in paying the full cost of circuits to the
   States, they are effectively subsidizing the U.S. Internet community.
   They argue that U.S. service providers should pay for at least a
   portion of those circuits.
   
   In the traditional telephony world, international circuits are
   provided on a shared-cost basis, with each carrier meeting costs to a
   theoretical midpoint between two countries. Telstra and its supporters
   want such principles to be looked at--although not necessarily applied
   fully--in discussions about the Internet.
   
   This year, Telstra will lose US$10 million on providing Internet
   circuits to the United States. By 2000, the total spending on
   U.S.-bound Internet circuits from all non-U.S. service providers will
   reach US$2.5 billion, Hibbard notes. "We are providing resources for
   which we are not adequately compensated," he says. "At the same time,
   I am offering U.S. users access to Australian databases without
   getting a brass razoo." Hibbard explains that traffic from the United
   States to Australia gets a free ride, as U.S. service providers aren't
   contributing to the international connection.
   
   International service providers are lobbying U.S. regulators for
   compensation. "When people first started connecting to the Internet,
   that normally meant they were connecting to America, and as a result
   had to pay for the connection," says Michael Behringer, senior network
   engineer at Dante (Cambridge, U.K.), which operates the EuropaNet
   Internet backbone. Until recently almost all Internet content has
   resided in the United States, so it was fair for overseas providers to
   pay the bill for access to that content, Behringer reasons. But for
   Internet content to become truly global, payments should be more
   equitable, and non-U.S. service providers should not have to bear 100
   percent of the payment burden, he says.
   
   A group of Asia-Pacific carriers, including KDD and Telstra, has
   already made a proposal to the U.S. Federal Communications Commission
   that such Internet circuit fees should at least be taken into
   consideration during discussions on accounting rates, the fees paid by
   one carrier to another for delivering an international telephone call.
   To give their argument on leased lines to the United States more
   ammunition, several Asian carriers recently agreed to share the cost
   of international leased circuits for Internet communications between
   their own countries. The matter has also been raised at meetings of
   the Group of Seven (G7) nations. But so far, U.S. officials have
   rejected the complaint, and international officials don't seem to hold
   out much hope of success. "The Americans are sympathetic, but I doubt
   if they'll do anything because they don't have to," Behringer says.
   
   Carriers that offer free local calls, such as Singapore Telecom Ltd.
   and Telstra, are the most eager for change as they recoup little or no
   revenue when users access local servers to tap the global Internet.
   They argue that the Internet needs to be put on a more commercial
   footing. In Singapore, 65 percent of all 'Net traffic passes through
   the United States. "Because of the high cost of international
   bandwidth, it actually would cost a user US$100 an hour to connect to
   the Internet with a 2-Mbit/s link if he was paying the real commercial
   rate to the U.S.," said Tan Boon Tiong, deputy director of network
   technology development at Singapore Telecom, speaking at the
   International Telecommunication Union's Asia Telecom conference in
   June.
   
   Service providers point to other factors holding back the
   globalization of Internet infrastructure, such as the high cost of
   maintenance, installation, and operation and a lack of human
   resources. But many independent Internet service providers say that
   old-line telecom operators are hardly covering themselves in glory as
   the 'Net spreads its tentacles. Independent service providers and
   builders of backbones say that high leased-line costs remain the
   single biggest factor holding back the expansion of regional backbones
   that could help keep more Internet communications away from the United
   States. Lack of competition and a scarcity of infrastructure,
   particularly cross-border links, continue to keep leased-line prices
   in Europe three to 10 times more expensive than equivalent lines in
   the United States. Service providers say that they must wait up to
   five months for a cross-border E3 (34-Mbit/s) line, where such service
   exists.
   
   Ironically, it's the traditional telcos, which set those high prices,
   that are gradually taking over the operation of pan-European Internet
   backbones. "European carriers are schizophrenic," concedes one
   official at an international carrier alliance. "They will cry about
   lack of liberalization in another country but do all they can to delay
   liberalization in their own market as long as possible. That's human
   nature."
   
   That human nature is only serving to encourage the flow of 'Net
   traffic and facilities to the United States. "Dante's backbone took 18
   months to organize and two years to turn into a reality," Behringer
   says. "That delay was far too long and was mostly caused by arguing
   with telcos."
   
   It's not just high leased-line prices that anger independent ISPs.
   Deutsche Telekom, now Europe's largest ISP, still refuses to peer its
   network at Frankfurt's commercial NAP, where more than 25 independent
   German ISPs exchange traffic. Instead, Deutsche Telekom maintains a
   single peering deal with Deutsches Forschungsnetz (DFN), a scientific
   and academic network. That lack of domestic peering means that all
   communications between Deutsche Telekom and other German ISPs must be
   routed via the United States.
   
   "Peering via the U.S. affects Deutsche Telekom customers and our
   customers because of the delays on U.S. lines, which are normally
   saturated," says Thomas Bastian, senior technical director at CERFnet
   Germany Inc. (Frankfurt), the German unit of U.S. ISP TCG CERFnet (San
   Diego). In response, he says, all independent ISPs have announced that
   they will cancel any private peerings with DFN as of this coming
   January.
   
   "We are confident that things will change, but everything takes so
   long in Europe," Bastian says. "Our U.S. operation connects into NAPs
   at 155 Mbit/s, but here in Germany it's at 2 Mbit/s. It's very
   expensive just to set up a system, and those costs are inevitably
   passed on to users, which slows market development."
   
   Until more capacity is made available, there's not much chance that
   the global Internet's dependency on the United States will fade away.
   CTR Group's Tagare, a former executive at Nynex Network Systems
   (Bermuda) Ltd.--one of the founders of the FiberOptic Link Around the
   Globe (FLAG) project building a new global undersea cable--says that a
   lot of capacity remains warehoused to block competition. "Active
   capacity is no more than 50 to 60 percent of the bandwidth out
   there--the rest is warehoused," he says. "The people who need capacity
   desperately can't buy it because none is available, while those that
   have it can't use it because they don't have sufficient demand for it.
   That's an extremely inefficient model."
   
   WorldCom International Inc. (New York), another company planning to
   lay new international cabling, also places much of the blame for the
   current malaise at the door of incumbent telcos, in particular for
   failing to spot the tide of demand for data communications. WorldCom
   International says that voice today accounts for 80 percent of
   international traffic, but will make up only 20 percent by the early
   part of next decade.
   
   "Terabyte requirements will soon be upon us, but carriers got caught
   asleep making cozy, 4 percent growth demand forecasts," says Colin
   Williams, the company's international executive vice president.
   "Today, 90 percent of Internet traffic goes to the U.S., but we
   haven't yet scratched the surface of bandwidth requirements across the
   Atlantic."
   
   Translation: Don't expect a truly global Internet anytime soon.
   
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   8. http://www.teledotcom.com/
   9. http://www.teledotcom.com/toc/tocindex.html
  10. http://www.teledotcom.com/business/businessindex.html
  11. http://www.teledotcom.com/technology/techindex.html
  12. http://www.teledotcom.com/supply/supplyindex.html
  13. http://www.teledotcom.com/soapbox/soapindex.html
  14. http://www.teledotcom.com/staff/us.html
  15. http://www.teledotcom.com/tdcbackissues.html
  16. http://www.McGraw-Hill.com/corporate/copyrttm.htm
  17. mailto:msacca at compugraphia.com






From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Sep  6 17:03:33 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 08:03:33 +0800
Subject: BXA Testimony at SAFE Hearing
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906234350.00705f64@pop.pipeline.com>



See William Reinsch's testimony on the administration's 
encryption policy at the September 4 SAFE hearing:

   http://jya.com/bxa090497.htm

Perhaps dissimulating, or not then clued to the draft GAK bill,
Reinsch states:

1. Foreign crypto products are not as widely available as export
control critics claim, and thus do not threaten US products.

2. The administration is against mandatory key escrow.

3. Finds the SAFE bill unhelpful but likes its crypto-criminalization
provision and favors McCain-Kerrey's Secure Public Network 
Act bill or other legislation that will:

  Expressly confirm the freedom of domestic users to choose 
  any type or strength of encryption.

  Explicitly state that participation in a key management 
  infrastructure is voluntary .

  Set forth legal conditions for the release of recovery 
  information to law enforcement officials pursuant to lawful 
  authority and provide liability protection for key recovery 
  agents who have properly released such information.

  Criminalize the misuse of keys and the use of encryption to 
  further a crime. 	  

  Offer, on a voluntary basis, firms that are in the business of 
  providing public cryptography keys the opportunity to obtain 
  government recognition, allowing them to market the 
  trustworthiness implied by government approval.

----------

Leads to the testimony of NSA's Cowell and Justice's Litt would
be appreciated.

Representative Weldon remarked at length about encryption and
defense matters on September 4, supporting the administration's
policy:

   http://jya.com/weldon.txt  (46K)






From stend+cypherpunks at sten.tivoli.com  Sat Sep  6 17:13:51 1997
From: stend+cypherpunks at sten.tivoli.com (Firebeard)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 08:13:51 +0800
Subject: Stupid Senate Tricks, from The Netly News
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> Declan McCullagh writes:

DM> (Yet Bono was the only member of Congress with the balls to
DM> challenge FBI opposition to pro-privacy legislation at a hearing
DM> earlier this year. Go figure.)

	Perhaps ignorance is bliss?  It seems like the standard
response of Congresscritters who have been gotten to is "If you only
knew what I now know", so perhaps Rep Bono is too dull to absorb the
tales of the Horsemen in the secret briefings.

- -- 
#include                                /* Sten Drescher */
Unsolicited bulk email will be stored and handled for a US$500/KB fee.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of
Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the
shaking becomes a warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in
motion. -- Carlos Nunes-Ueno, 3/29/95

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface

iQBVAwUBNBHdmfCBWKvC9LiRAQHVMQIAlkMSYB3eh02qxXcve8ScJ03dydvGh4Wo
Y+Q3RIJLE5clzYwl6/lWt1TzYqRqqnNRXq/9TkuYe590ku+xkpzlNA==
=y/Sf
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From ichudov at Algebra.COM  Sat Sep  6 17:35:08 1997
From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 08:35:08 +0800
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709070027.TAA23530@manifold.algebra.com>



Prof. Sternlight, do you admit that you were wrong?

Please share your thoughts with cypherpunks at algebra.com

Thank you.

igor

----- Forwarded message from Tim May -----

>From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM  Sat Sep  6 12:06:52 1997
X-Sender: tcmay at mail.got.net
Message-Id: 
In-Reply-To: <970906105358_284527778 at emout18.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:41:38 -0700
To: cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
From: Tim May 
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world
Sender: owner-cypherpunks at algebra.com
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks at algebra.com
X-List-Admin: ichudov at algebra.com
X-Loop: cypherpunks at algebra.com


At 7:54 AM -0700 9/6/97, Syniker at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-06 07:15:18 EDT, vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z.
>Nuri) writes:
>
><< maybe I'm not following closely enough, but I haven't seen a *single*
> reference. that's really eerie. can't we get a *single*
> senator to bring up that issue? >>
>
>me neither... it's fucking mind-boggling....
>and where's all the 'censorship' people????
>it's like -- no one can make the 'connection' ....
>the CDA and FCA lists are dead ... not a word ...
>how can we all have wet powder at the same time?

I didn't see Detweiler's original message ('til just now), but I think this
is wrong, the "I haven't seen a *single*  reference" (to the
constitutionality of mandatory key escrow).

In some of the accounts of the Freeh-Feinstein-etc. colloquy, there were
mentions that mandatory key escrow probably would be desirable, but
probably not be possible. (I took this to mean they, including Freeh,
recognized it would be unconstitutional).

Of course, then the draft text of the GAK bill floated by the next day, and
it of course contained no references to constitutionality (not
surprisingly, as draft bills are not self-analyses).

Despite my cynicism, I'd expect the courts to issue an immediate stay on
enforcement on such a law, as happened with the CDA. With probably an
expedited hearing before the Supreme Court. As so many have noted, it seems
to be a slam dunk infringement on the right to speak freely and in whatever
language one wishes. And some 4th and 5th and other involvements.

It may be a stalking horse. A threat. Designed to force a compromise. "If
you don't pass McCain-Kerrey, this is what you'll get."

A helluva way to run a country, er, a world.

But look on the bright side: the militias and other patriot groups are
getting a huge bounce out of this. Stay far away from the nests of vipers.
Jefferson's wisdom that we need a revolution every generation or so is
apt...though it's been about 180 years too long.

Now even those, like Sternlight, who claimed the government would never
require key escrow, have to admit we were right all along.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."




----- End of forwarded message from Tim May -----


	- Igor.






From nea25 at sprintmail.com  Sun Sep  7 10:06:47 1997
From: nea25 at sprintmail.com (James)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:06:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unsecured Credit Card-Approved Guaranteed
Message-ID: <19970907271IAA29748@post.a001.sprintmail.com>


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From tm at dev.null  Sat Sep  6 19:14:06 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:14:06 +0800
Subject: Cpunks War Dance, Feinstein Hari-Kari
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3412098A.57BF@dev.null>



Tim May wrote:

> >A Patent Falls, and the Internet Dances
> >
> >By Peter Wayner
> >
> >>From the beginning, though, patent 4,200,770 was different. This
> >Saturday night a group of computer scientists, Internet fanatics and
> >Beltway politicos will gather in Washington, D.C.; Silicon Valley; and
> >Boston to celebrate the end of the patent granted to Whitfield Diffie
> >and Martin Hellman for a way to encrypt data.
 
> Sounds to me like this reporter helped manufacture the news.....
> 
> The more things change, the more they remain the same.
> 
> And puppets still dance....

Tim,
  I told Peter Wayner about your plans to commit suicide tonight.
He's already written a story for tomorrow, and he wants to know
if you're going to do it, or let him down and make him look like
an idiot.

The 1/2MONGER






From anon at anon.efga.org  Sat Sep  6 19:18:09 1997
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:18:09 +0800
Subject: Puppet Masters
Message-ID: <9b9319bba8770ed27d7bb269b97ef995@anon.efga.org>




Sunday, September 07, 1997 - 03:16:32 MET

> > i am getting a very bad feeling that maybe the level of inside/outside
> > censorship of the press may be a good indicator, like the Doomsday 
> > Clock, of how close we are to the day when the Puppet Masters finally
> > step out from behind their masks.
> 
> 	Puppet Masters don't step out from behind thier masks.  They have
> someone else step out for them.
> 
> ~kp


-Creeping encrouchment-Puppet Masters Get Increasingly 
Bold-

With each succeeding assault on the constitutional rights of citizens 
the gov't  both tests and increases the public's willingness to give 
away those rights. As we sit idly by,  parlor intellectualizing, 
anyone who really dares to organize,  gets fried, on national tv for 
the trouble.

Make a timeline from the first live at 5 fry of the 'bad guys' in the 
70s, to the present and observe the circumstances surrounding each 
one.

When they started this- judged on television, fried on television- 
brainwash, they at least tried to put on a semblence of 
justifiability,..ie SLA," kidnappers, bankrobbers,thugs disguised as 
mad dog radicals"..etc and went to great lenghts to see that the 
point was well propagandized to the 'people' and that the 'people' 
accordind to neilson or gallup or somebody, were in consensus and 
then 'puff'', charcoaled the constitution with human kindling before 
EVERYBODIES eyes.

A few op ed pages later, with no real political or social fallout. 
They decide to do it again, and then do it again, upping the ante 
each time.. .the Order, Mt. Carmel, Weaver, etc

...By the time they do the Davidians, they offer specious 
reckless charges that were never substantiated and in fact were 
easily discredited and 85 people burned alive on national tv. people 
who were never charged with any crime-when federal goons 
attempted to serve a specious search warrant as if they were 
marching into lebenon.

The militias of today are saying and doing what the Panthers 
advocated 25 yrs ago. Though each of these groups  held to 
radically different ideologies, the common denomionator is they took 
a stand against an illegal abuse of local and federal power by 
organising into a community of interests that was prepared to defend 
it's right to do so against outside intrusion, and that is whatthe 
puppet masters would not tolerate.

They aren't going to come jackbooting into our cities and towns. 
They are already there, shoving plungers up our ass when they don't 
like the way we look.  They isolate any pocket of dissension (and 
to dare to organize into a community is to dissent) , whether it is 
black, white, christian, islamic or whatever,..can you say 
"cypherpunk".. and burn them out of existence, putting it on tv as an 
object lesson for the rest of us,

The local police, the military, both houses, the administration and 
all the various goon squads are all pigs drinking from the same trough. The presidential elections are a
tv show designed to give us the illusion of a democracy. Its no
accident that the houses reconvene with the new tv season. It is all
for mind control nothing else.

Now I am no christian fundementalist, white supremicist, black power 
fanatic or anything else; just an average person trying to live my 
life simply and freely but the only way things will change is when we 
the 'coach potato sheeple' including intellectual armchair quarterbacks
who think they are superior and above it all because they can run a few 
sentences together, docmartin, airjordan, dingo, nike and ourache our way into 
washington with some plungers of our own and enlighten the fucking white 
house the same way they enlighten us. 

Timothy McVeigh for President Committee-











From tm at dev.null  Sat Sep  6 19:43:07 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:43:07 +0800
Subject: The future of Digital (Ouch!) Implants
Message-ID: <34120EB4.1DBA@dev.null>



NotW:

* An April issue of New Scientist magazine reported that
Australia's national research organization CSIRO has already made
three sales of its "phalloblaster" device (at about $3,500 [U.S.])
that inflates the genitalia of dead insects to make it easier to
classify
them.  Its official name is the "vesica everter," and it will work on
genitalia as small as those of moths with wingspans of 2 millimeters.







From tm at dev.null  Sat Sep  6 19:43:47 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:43:47 +0800
Subject: Texas CypherPunks Take Up Arms!
Message-ID: <3412120F.1C48@dev.null>



We need to thank Jim Choate for his tireless efforts in this regard.

* According to USA Today in May, a bill pending in the Texas
legislature would allow anyone with a record of mental illness
nonetheless to obtain a concealed weapon permit if approved by a
doctor. 

http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html






From tm at dev.null  Sat Sep  6 19:44:00 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:44:00 +0800
Subject: Oxygen Escrow (Government Regulations soon to be announced!)
Message-ID: <34120D94.2AC7@dev.null>



>From NotW:

* Bangkok's largest English-language newspaper, The Nation,
reported in February on a raging war by coffin sellers in the
southern Thailand city of Nakhon Si Thammarat.  Eight shops are
located across the street from the city's largest hospital, and bribes
of hospital personnel for clients are common.  A television station
reported that one shop's agent sneaked into several hospital rooms
to disconnect oxygen to terminal patients whose relatives were
already known to the shop and thus might have given that shop
their business.







From tm at dev.null  Sat Sep  6 19:44:31 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:44:31 +0800
Subject: 4 Horsemen - 1  Child Citizen - 0 / (Where are Lous Freeh and Janet Reno when you really need them?)
Message-ID: <34120BD6.4DC6@dev.null>



WEIRDNUZ.493 (News of the Weird, July 18, 1997)
by Chuck Shepherd

* In May, the Minnesota Court of Appeals reversed a $1 million
award by a jury that had found parishioner Dale Scheffler, 30, to
have been molested at age 14 by Catholic priest Robert Kapoun,
finding that Scheffler's lawsuit was barred by the statute of
limitations.  Two weeks later, the Archdiocese of St. Paul and
Minneapolis announced that it had filed with the court a claim of
$4,937 against Scheffler to recover part of its legal expenses since
the Archdiocese is now regarded as the winning party.  Father
Kapoun filed for $1,081.







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sat Sep  6 19:50:34 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:50:34 +0800
Subject: Toto UnMasked!!!
Message-ID: <199709070233.EAA02851@basement.replay.com>



And in June, authorities in Cincinnati, Ohio, removed
three toddlers from the feces-strewn bedroom they were locked
into for up to 12 hours a day; their mother, Sandra Hacker,
allegedly did not want them disturbing her while she was on the
Internet. 

News of the Weird
  by Chuck Shephard







From stend+cypherpunks at sten.tivoli.com  Sat Sep  6 20:16:03 1997
From: stend+cypherpunks at sten.tivoli.com (Firebeard)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 11:16:03 +0800
Subject: standardizing encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> dformosa  writes:

d> On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:

>> Do you think do to use standardizing encryption?  I think It isn't
>> too very good.

d> Rather then being not too good, it is infact neccery.  Unless we
d> have a standard, secure encrytion system, cryto is next to useless.

d> What is the use of encrypting your email if the recpent can't
d> decode it.

	I think a standard algorithm would be a bad idea, because that 
implies someone choosing what algorithm to be the standard.  Better is 
publicly known formats and algorithms, so that the strengths of the
algorithms can be tested, and multiple products can implement the same 
formats and algorithms, and compete on the basis of features and
usability, rather than FUD-based claims of security.  This may result
in multiple formats and algorithms being used, and that's all for the
best, so that when one algorithm is compromised, others are available
to be switched to.

- -- 
#include                                /* Sten Drescher */
Unsolicited bulk email will be stored and handled for a US$500/KB fee.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of
Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the
shaking becomes a warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in
motion. -- Carlos Nunes-Ueno, 3/29/95

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface

iQBVAwUBNBIbRPCBWKvC9LiRAQHZ4AH/URoqW6r9VW2hxq6ZIFBiK013SjNtHA69
SmtvvcmJ3hDgfoZJO+bMPqj+GF9+hxB8mFKvbnH2l6rpSs3RsfT6Tw==
=m4af
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu  Sat Sep  6 21:59:04 1997
From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:59:04 +0800
Subject: Information
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970907004523.00854ae0@popmail.firn.edu>



At 04:09 PM 9/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Leo Papandreou  writes:
>> On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Harry Regan wrote:
>>
>> > Information, please!
>> Dont go swimming on a full stomach.
>Don't "escrow" your keys.

When they say it's for "Legitimate law enforcement" they are lying SOB's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
			-U.S. Constitution, Amendment II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------






From phoenix at cutey.com  Sat Sep  6 22:30:35 1997
From: phoenix at cutey.com (Irwan Hadi)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:30:35 +0800
Subject: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970907120328.04bf0fdc@mail.bit.net.id>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 19:51 06/09/97 GMT, bureau42 Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>I have brute-forced this message with my NSA-surplus CrayVax (TM) 
and
>determined its contents are as follows:
How long  you can brute forte attack this message ???
If you're right, that you only do it in 2 days, so BRUTE forte my 
message, it was encrypted with PGP Mail 4.5 with 2048 bits, and here 
I give my public key. Remember this is only for a test, so this 
public key won't find in any keyserver.

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 4.5

mQENAjQSNNoAAAEIAKFY8Xi4uzfbcaOQczO59E2dLxmFqq89h/S9rrFNZNij5tu7
weX7qe7unQhL2d/jpiWlM5CKxQaM044/bSHsxDGdfFi9KOptvmHdncZQ2oRB5zQh
mNPK6pK4Ty8pxJsWALuBwDMt9Wt+0u+tkPlJK2AHWpHf+8gncrWqSv7p3N1lThhT
KHdodcwdIEzTr5jbatf1u+/gr1LyHLPW5dt32sjfi07vsAXGwiOQ4kPEVZuCsX/O
9qO2vISnTD1jFoA2O572UzYZeUKL/uzsO3I9m9Erwq9S2ULO8WZ+iasYGC3mu8PE
jp8O/Xhf/AsSF/s0nX8i8pWtBS4TNiU3t4CRIK8ABRG0K1RoaXMgaXMgb25seSBm
b3IgdGVzdCwgZnJvbSBUSEUtUGhvZW5peEJpcmQ=
=Go7q
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

And this is the message
- -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 4.5
Comment: sent by : phoenix at cutey.com

hQEMAjYlN7eAkSCvAQf/WqRP7J61OUkUtGbSUlpjiHsWZ0L6ZFKSsXM92gU7n6/R
lqpIK9al1TRg+FxyWh0Adng7BS9jrbn8CHxHtFLCj3FmvH5oVWGM7oSLT+ho/Bfe
KX4t0TEF5X71LiNaBfyi/AXEwHlxPvoboGcPsT1maH8POtwMguZGL7goc86rrA/f
xlMvi/VkXpw5LACsJ91za7izab9TlIGOorgVfkkJuhPHACGl/HWHOFEuLVwR7+eV
3UzaxYUxrPBUzJaSv/juOq29a7ipbSIVFJQjWpQ8w34P8Bc2JMupRUxUC7LNmDdd
fK5Z80GbZ6Ul3ib8Pi5j8PKuaKhCBLjPUB2YoVN67qYAAABOOeVBhzwd7xRSntqY
hFLYzJ5CmOuNfn8F85yeh+KIy5w818VtL6xE5Gq9t911A/6texuTn18Rm+mAiLNL
Bs30Yo3/AS90lSHSWVvpHC7y
=YsNb
- -----END PGP MESSAGE-----

I'll give one row of the message, it consist of 2 rows.
Here the first row :

PGP is Pretty Good Privacy.


if you can, give me the second row.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNBHTMFFJDOlka9UjEQKEAgCgqeJf2WWQHnElrfC/570omcvR64EAnAzM
ei2e5XDIcK5Esyb5wOaypzEe
=/iP1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  6 22:54:38 1997
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:54:38 +0800
Subject: The 1996 RSA Data Security Conference Proceedings
Message-ID: <19970907053504.19514.qmail@hotmail.com>



Does anybody have The 1996 RSA Data Security
Conference Proceedings?
If You have it,Please send e-mail to me.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From wgrip at spica.net  Sun Sep  7 14:07:54 1997
From: wgrip at spica.net (wgrip at spica.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Get Your Site Noticed!!
Message-ID: <52523477_46458952>



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From apache at bear.apana.org.au  Sun Sep  7 01:55:17 1997
From: apache at bear.apana.org.au (Apache)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:55:17 +0800
Subject: BXA Testimony at SAFE Hearing
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906234350.00705f64@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <199709070848.SAA07711@bear.apana.org.au>




> Perhaps dissimulating, or not then clued to the draft GAK bill,
> Reinsch states:
[/\]
> 3. Finds the SAFE bill unhelpful but likes its crypto-criminalization
> provision and favors McCain-Kerrey's Secure Public Network 
> Act bill or other legislation that will:
...
>   Offer, on a voluntary basis, firms that are in the business of 
>   providing public cryptography keys the opportunity to obtain 
>   government recognition, allowing them to market the 
>   trustworthiness implied by government approval.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BWHAHAHA this is some kind of sick joke surely.

Get ur crypto here folks, it's approved by the gubermint.







From apache at bear.apana.org.au  Sun Sep  7 02:02:12 1997
From: apache at bear.apana.org.au (Apache)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:02:12 +0800
Subject: The future of Digital (Ouch!) Implants
In-Reply-To: <34120EB4.1DBA@dev.null>
Message-ID: <199709070851.SAA07734@bear.apana.org.au>



They sound like a bunch of ped-a-files to me
They need to be plungered

> * An April issue of New Scientist magazine reported that
> Australia's national research organization CSIRO has already made
> three sales of its "phalloblaster" device (at about $3,500 [U.S.])
> that inflates the genitalia of dead insects to make it easier to
> classify
> them.  Its official name is the "vesica everter," and it will work on
> genitalia as small as those of moths with wingspans of 2 millimeters.







From adrian at access.net.au  Sun Sep  7 02:33:37 1997
From: adrian at access.net.au (Adrian Mollenhorst)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:33:37 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <01BCBBC2.B57F4E40@d017.meldas3.access.net.au>



Unubscribe cypherpunks-unedited






From whgiii at amaranth.com  Sun Sep  7 05:29:07 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:29:07 +0800
Subject: tdc0997globe.html
In-Reply-To: <199709062313.TAA18510@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>
Message-ID: <199709071220.IAA01388@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


[Well I am not quoting any of a rather lengthy post. It's in the archives
if you want to read it.]

What a load of crap. Nothing but wining and snivelling about internet
traffic ratios between the states and overseas. How awful that 80% of
Internet content is in English. Oh my people overseas actually want to
connect to US sites and god forbid the foreign Telco's have to pay to
improve their connections to the States.

It is simple Economics 101 supply and demand. Content providers are
producing what people on the net want thus the increasing demand. If there
were people in Russia, or Asia, or India who were producing content that
people wanted then the demand would be to connect to those servers but it
is not. Nor should the silly notion that US providers should subsidize
foreign Telco's so they can improve their communication be given a second
thought. If their customers want/need improved bandwidth to the US then
let them pay for it. 

It's bad enough that my tax dollars are being pissed away by the billions
overseas without more of it be wasted on them.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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nlG3790VFcc=
=OVpx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Sep  7 05:36:24 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:36:24 +0800
Subject: GAK Ploy
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907121556.007502a4@pop.pipeline.com>



Markoff reports today on the latest GAK ploy:

   http://jya.com/gak-door.htm

Excerpts:

   Government officials disputed the idea that requiring
   decoding technology would necessarily mean the technology
   would be used.

   "There is nothing about putting this enabling technology
   into law that will inevitably lead to it being turned on,"
   said Robert Litt, a Deputy Assistant United States
   Attorney.

   The Administration is now moving on an effort to block
   legislation [SAFE] that is to be considered this week by the house
   Intelligence and National Security Committees. That
   legislation would end Government control over cryptographic
   systems. The Administration proposal is being offered as an
   amendment to that bill.







From valdeez at juno.com  Sun Sep  7 05:38:27 1997
From: valdeez at juno.com (Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:38:27 +0800
Subject: Prayer to A.M. Turing
Message-ID: <19970907.072429.3854.40.valdeez@juno.com>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Oh Lord Turing, God of Messages and Pathways, please reduce the
latency time of the remailer network!  Please accept this humble
offering: 10110AlanMathisonTuring8ef2b1912670b51

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html

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=4W9L
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




E-mail was meant to be Free, And so should Free Speech
To Report any Abuse or Request Your E-Mail Address to
be BLOCKED, Contact valdeez at juno.com






From whgiii at amaranth.com  Sun Sep  7 05:40:00 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:40:00 +0800
Subject: BXA Testimony at SAFE Hearing
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906234350.00705f64@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <199709071220.IAA01391@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <1.5.4.32.19970906234350.00705f64 at pop.pipeline.com>, on 09/06/97 
   at 07:43 PM, John Young  said:

>See William Reinsch's testimony on the administration's 
>encryption policy at the September 4 SAFE hearing:

>   http://jya.com/bxa090497.htm

>Perhaps dissimulating, or not then clued to the draft GAK bill, Reinsch
>states:

>1. Foreign crypto products are not as widely available as export control
>critics claim, and thus do not threaten US products.

Lie

>2. The administration is against mandatory key escrow.

Lie

>3. Finds the SAFE bill unhelpful but likes its crypto-criminalization
>provision and favors McCain-Kerrey's Secure Public Network  Act bill or
>other legislation that will:

>  Expressly confirm the freedom of domestic users to choose 
>  any type or strength of encryption.

Lie

>  Explicitly state that participation in a key management 
>  infrastructure is voluntary .

Lie

>  Set forth legal conditions for the release of recovery 
>  information to law enforcement officials pursuant to lawful 
>  authority and provide liability protection for key recovery 
>  agents who have properly released such information.

Any time they want it.

>  Criminalize the misuse of keys and the use of encryption to 
>  further a crime. 

Any and all uses will be a crime.	  

>  Offer, on a voluntary basis, firms that are in the business of 
>  providing public cryptography keys the opportunity to obtain 
>  government recognition, allowing them to market the 
>  trustworthiness implied by government approval.


They don't want it nor do they need it.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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From wiu at vtx.ch  Sun Sep  7 20:42:31 1997
From: wiu at vtx.ch (Floodgate)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bulk Email For Profit
Message-ID: <199709074309WAA49591@post.gn.apc.org>




To be removed - Hit reply and type "remove"
in the subject of your letter.

******************************************************
        
            MAIL THOUSANDS OF EMAIL MESSAGES
                PER HOUR - NO KIDDING !!

          SEND YOUR EMAIL MESSAGES OUT, AT
         1,000's MESSAGES / HOUR (28.8K modem)

           YES, 1,000's  Of Messages An Hour

******************************************************

    YOU CAN ALSO RECEIVE A "BOMB-PROOF" EMAIL ADDRESS
     AND WEB PAGE TO USE IN YOUR MARKETING LETTER !!

******************************************************
     
That's right. We believe that there should be little
or NO restrictions on Internet communications and email!
Our two (2) software programs demonstrate the notion of
unlimited, uncensored, and unrestricted, bullet-proof
email use.

  YOU'LL RECEIVE 2 HIGH-SPEED EMAIL SOFTWARE PROGRAMS

Introducing...."FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER" 
        AND...."GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER"

I operate a custom email service. From my experience, your typical bulk email service just collects email addresses from any source they can rely on shear volume emailing to produce the desired results - the "shotgun" approach. I have found that by targeting emails to groups that would likely be specifically interested in your product, the response rate is much better than when using the "shotgun" approach AND you don't tend to annoy as many people (which is nice for both sides). By targeting emails, I mean that I collect the addresses myself from on-line areas (forums, newsgroups, etc.) so that I mail to people that are likely to be interested in my products based on their on-line participation.

FLOODGATE is the renegade technology that helps me do this.

This is the same software that all bulk emailing services use!

----------------------------------------------------

Floodgate Bulk Email Loader Version 5.2 AND
Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer Version 2.018
for Windows 95 and Windows 3.1 now Supports 17 
(really more with the free form filter) File Formats

----------------------------------------------------


SEND OUT 20,000+ MARKETING LETTERS EVERY SINGLE DAY!

Or...every few days. In fact, when I send out just a few thousand marketing letters each day, it doesn't take long before I'm completely swamped with email inquiries and phone calls. This is very easy to do. And each one of these bulk mailings costs me nothing. I can teach you how to do this and provide you with the tools you'll need.

If you've got a good marketing letter, I'll show you how to open the floodgates. You'll be deluged with inquiries, leads, and real sales, using nothing but email alone.

Writing a good marketing letter is not easy. I often have to rewrite my marketing letters a half dozen times before I get the results I'm looking for. But once you have a good letter, as you probably know, you can use the same letter over and over again, predictably and consistently, closing sales, week after week, month after month.

It takes me about one hour to send my marketing letter to THOUSANDS of fresh email addresses. I can do this, thanks to a Windows program I use. It's called Floodgate and Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer. It's a bulk email loader and an email software program. If you're interested in electronic marketing, you should know about these programs.

PROGRAM #1: FLOODGATE FOR WINDOWS

The Floodgate Bulk Email Loader imports simple text files that anyone can download from CompuServe, Prodigy, Delphi Genie, or the Internet. These text files contain classified ads, forum messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these files is filled with email addresses.

Floodgate is designed to read these files and strip out the email addresses. It then sorts the addresses, removes any duplicates, and formats them into an output file, with 10, 20 or 30 addresses per line. This is all done in one simple step. Just point and click.

You'll need either a Windows based Internet account or an America On-line account to send out your marketing letters. Neither AOL nor the Internet charges to send email. Send your letter to 1,000 people or 10,000 people -- the cost is always the same. NOTHING!

NEW! PREPARE A MAILING OF 50,000+ 
IN LESS THAN A 1/2 HOUR

If you open an Internet account, you can send each letter to 20,000+ people. The new Floodgate now directly writes distribution lists. Some people are always collecting new addresses, but if you publish a newsletter or adsheet, you'll be using the same addresses over and over again. That's real power! When using addresses you've previously collected, you can press a few buttons and prepare a mailing of 50,000+ in less than a half hour.

(To get a list of all the Internet access providers in your local calling area goto: http://thelist.com and click on your area code.)

The Floodgate Users Guide will teach you, step by step, how to download the right files, how to strip the addresses, and finally, how to cut and paste the formatted addresses into your marketing letter. Or, if you have an Internet account, how to create distribution lists. One you've done this a few times you won't even have to think. It's that simple!

FOR THE BRAVE & DARING: PUSHING TECHNOLOGY TO ITS LIMITS

As you may know, the practice of sending unsolicited email is usually frowned upon, and most service providers have rules against it. But, like jay-walking, there is little enforcement. It's not illegal. If someone tells you that it is, ask them to provide the citation (and don't let them give you some nonsense about faxes - that's not email). They can't do it because it's not there. Sometimes, when a lot of people complain, I get a warning letter. And that's about it.

About 1 in 200 will write back and tell me, "take me off the list", which I can do, thanks to Floodgates Remove List feature. Many people reply back thanking me for sending them my informative letter. That's always nice. Most people though, just reply and say, "send me more info." In this way, it usually takes me two or three letters to close a sale.

The Floodgate Users Guide will provide you with proven formats for writing a successful marketing letter. You'll test and rewrite, test and rewrite. Then, once you've got it, just push a few buttons, and open the floodgates!!!

THE FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER CURRENTLY SUPPORTS 17+ FILE FORMATS

1. CompuServe Classifieds: Send your marketing letter to everyone who is running a classified ad. I'll teach you how to download all the classifieds from any single ad category. This is one of the most responsive list of buyers. They check their email every day and they're already in business.

2. America On-line Classifieds: Download 1,000 addresses in 15 minutes. These are excellent lists for business to business sales.

3. CompuServe Forums: You can join a forum and download hundreds of forum messages in a matter of minutes.

4. America On-line Forums: Choose from dozens of forums. All good targeted lists.

5. Prodigy Forums: Prodigy allows you to easily export any group of forum messages. More targeted lists.

6. Internet Newsgroups: These are all targeted lists. You'll be able to send your marketing letter to everyone who posts a message in any newsgroup. Easily collect 1,000's of addresses per hour.

7. America On-line Member Directory: Most member directories only allow you to search by city and state. With AOL, you can search by business type, hobbies, computer type, etc. This is the gem of all
member directories. Build huge targeted lists.

8. CompuServe Member Directory: This is a major resource. If you're willing to target your mailing to a single city, you can collect about 1,000 email addresses an hour.

9. Delphi Member Directory: The Delphi member directory allows you to search for people based on key words. These are good targeted mailing lists. A single search can easily generate 5,000 addresses.

10. Genie Member Directory: Similar to the CompuServe member directory, only you can download names much quicker. You can easily pull hundreds of thousands of addresses out of each of these member directories.

11. CompuServe File Cabinet: If you run classified ads, and save the responses in the CIM file cabinet, you'll be able to easily reuse these addresses. You can send your marketing letter to everyone in any single folder. Build master lists and clean UP your hard drive.

12. Free Form: If you have a text file with email addresses that floodgate does not support, chances are the Free Form filter will be just what you need. Just enter a key word to search for.

13. CompuServe Form Profiles (Forum Membership Directories): Easy to build targeted lists here. Each search can easily bring you 500+
addresses.

14. Genie Profiles: If you're building targeted lists, you'll get a lot of addresses very quickly from Genie.

15. Plain Addresses: Read Floodgate Master Files back into Floodgate to merge files and do selective mailings. Also useful for the management of email address lists that you might purchase.

Floodgate also has filters to allow you to include or exclude any groups of addresses in your final distribution lists. For example, you could include only email addresses that ended in .com or exclude all with .gov. You could exclude all noc, root, and other addresses that almost guarantee a negative response. These filters are fully configurable and can be used together.

BUILD REUSABLE MASTER FILES

Floodgate maintains Master Files for each of your marketing letters. If you download from the same place on a regular basis, you only want to send your letter to the new people. Floodgate will compare the new addresses with those in the Master File, and prepare a mailing list of only new people. The new addresses are, of course, then added to the Master File. With each new mailing your Master File grows and grows.

You may create as many Master Lists as you need. When you start a new marketing campaign, you'll want to send your new letter to everyone on your Master List. If you write a newsletter, each time you send your newsletter, you'll send it to everyone on a Master List.

THE REMOVE LIST

Very often, people will reply and tell you to take them off your mailing list. Place these addresses in the REMOVE.MST file and they will never receive another letter from you again. In this way, you will be operating your business with the most professionalism
possible.

DON'T BE FOOLED

We have some new competitors that have tried to copy Floodgate. The following list describes why Floodgate is BETTER.......

**Floodgate is a mature, bug free product. Not an initial release.
**Floodgate comes with over 100 pages of step by step       documentation.
**Floodgate is the only one offering a money back     guarantee.
**Floodgate has more testimonials. 
**Filter for filter, Floodgate offers more capabilities,   way more. 
**Floodgate does everything all the others *combined* claim. 
**Floodgate is by far the easiest to use.
**There is NO *cutting and pasting* with Floodgate. 
**We have by far, the BEST technical support.

SOME QUICK MATH

Floodgate can pay for itself in a few days. It can also cut your advertising costs down to almost nothing. Think of what the competition will do when they get their Floodgate program. Don't be left in the dust - there are 75 million people out there, just a few keystrokes away. Let's do the math:

- Email 50,000 sales letters (takes about 1-2 hours)
- Let's say your product will bring you $5 profit per   sale.
- Let's also say you only get a 1% response   (occasionally higher).

* That's 500 orders x $5 = $2,500 profit !! Now imagine what 500,000 letters would do for your business !!

WHAT CAN I MARKET ON-LINE?

You can market anything on-line using direct email, that can be marketed using conventional postal direct mail marketing. The possibilities are practically endless. If it sells off-line, you can sell it on-line.

EASY TO INSTALL AND EASY TO LEARN

The Floodgate Email Loader requires Windows. The SUPPLIED MANUAL tells you where to go, what to do, and how to do it. All you need are basic computer skills that can be learned with a little practice or help from our computer savvy technicians.

PROGRAM #2: GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER

Do not get this program confused with other slow speed programs that call themselves "STEALTH". This program is the only one in the world that can send email out at HIGH SPEEDS with one single connection to the internet. 

This is NEW, Cutting Edge Email Technology. First Of It's Kind.. The Most Powerful BULK EMAIL SENDER In The World.. NOTHING CAN EVEN COME CLOSE! 

Thanks to our top programmer's, this technology is NOW available and we are the only place you can get it from! 

     *ONLY "ONE" DIAL-UP OR ISDN CONNECTION NEEDED. 
     *NO MORE TERMINATED CONNECTIONS. 
     *NO MORE WAITING TO SEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF EMAIL. 
     *IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO YOUR MASS MAILINGS. 
     *YOU WILL HAVE ALL THE CONTROL AND CONFIDENCE OF               SENDING EMAIL THE WAY IT SHOULD BE SENT... IN HUGE AMOUNTS! 
     *SEND YOUR WHOLE LIST IN ONE DAY, WHETHER IT BE                500,000 OR 5 MILLION - AND JUST SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR YOUR       ORDERS TO POUR IN. 
     *NO MORE DOWNLOADING UNDELIVERABLE NAMES.

Bulk Emailer's Dream Come True!!! - >>>GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER<<< 

Connect to multiple mail servers (20 or more), make multiple connections to a single server or any combination of the two ( All Simultaneously ) with one single dial-up connection. 

SEND MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS MAILINGS... 

View complete details about your mailings. Shows each server your connected to, the status of that connection, how many messages are going out through that connection, etc...

We show you ALL the tricks all the mass e-mailers don't want you to know... 

Here are just a few features the GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER offers to you... 

     *Forge the Header - Message ID - ISP's will Spin their wheels. 
     *Add's a Bogus Authenticated Sender to the Header. 
     *Add's a complete bogus Received From / Received By line with       real time / date stamp and recipient to the Header. 
     *Does NOT require a valid POP Account be entered in order to       send your mailings. 
     *Easy to use and operate 
     *Plus much more! 

All this, at speeds of up to 1,000's messages/hour
(28.8k modem). 

SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE... 

NOW YOU CAN HAVE BOTH THE FLOODGATE AND GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER FOR JUST $499.00! 

UPDATE ... SAVE $149.05 AND ORDER NOW, BE ONE OF THE FIRST 100 ORDERS! 

Step up to the plate and play with the big boys TODAY and receive the COMPLETE 2 SOFTWARE PACKAGE for the unbelievably low price of ONLY $349.95! 

(Other bulk email software has sold for as much as $2,500 and can't even come close to the cutting edge technology of EASE, ACCURACY AND SPEED ... SPEED ... SPEED!) 

       Try the Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer & Floodgate Bulk Email Loader for 10 days FREE. 
        And receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.


***SPECIAL BONUS #1:*** STOP Losing ISP Dial Up Accounts! 

If you order The FLOODGATE / GOLDRUSH software within the next 5 days - When you receive your program, you will also receive: 

*Complete instructions on "how to keep your dial up account from  showing up in the header", plus everything you will need to get started doing this. 

IMPORTANT NOTICE! We will initially only be offering 100 copies of the program for sale, First come / First Served basis only. We are doing this because of the extreme power that these programs offer.


***SPECIAL BONUS #2*** 

When you receive your two programs, you will also receive:
OVER 250 REPRINT AND RESELL RIGHTS REPORTS YOU CAN START TO MARKET
AND MAKE MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!! 

     These HOT sellers include: 
     1) How to Get a Top Rating in the Search Engines 
     2) 70 Money Making Reports 
     3) 75 MONEY MAKING PLANS & TRADE SECRETS and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!         ($200 RETAIL VALUE - FREE!!!) 


***SPECIAL BONUS #3***

With your two software programs, you will also receive our NEW "Address Grabber" utility program that enables you to grab 100's of THOUSANDS of email addresses from
newsgroups in minutes ($100 RETAIL VALUE - FREE).


***SPECIAL BONUS #4***

RECEIVE CHECKS BY EMAIL, PHONE OR FAX MACHINE. With this software
program, you can receive payment for your product or service INSTANTLY!!
There is no more waiting for your customers chec to arrive. This
software will no doubt, add to your sales, for customers who
don't have credit cards, as well as the impulse buyers.

With this software, you can print up your payments as soon as your
customer gives you his/her checking information. You will then
add the information given, to the proper blank check spaces, then
just print and go to the bank!!

         ***************************************************

To get your FREE demo and "test drive" our state-of-the-art software, visit our newly renovated web page at:
             
                  http://www.t-1net.com/floodgate      		

         ****************************************************

              HURRY ... RESERVE YOURS TODAY! 

So, if you are interested in taking advantage of the most powerful bulk email software
in the world and start making money hand over fist.....

Print out the EZ ORDER form below and FAX or MAIL it to our office.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to call us at: 1-954-341-2924

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

386 or larger
Windows 95 OR Windows 3.1 with 8 meg ram
Extra 5 MB hard drive space

Floodgate & Goldrush can be run on a fast Mac with 24 MB RAM and SoftWindows.

NOTES FROM SATISFIED USERS

"It is everything you said it was. Within one week of my first mailing, I received a record number of orders. All you need to print money is a decent sales letter. Thanks." Randy albertson, Wolverine Capital.

"After using Floodgate and your utility program all day today, let me say these are as two of the finest programs I have ever bought in my 52 years! Your support has been superb. Thank You!" Vernon Hale, Prime Data Systems

"My first day and I just used Floodgate and Pegasus to send 1,469 sales letters. So far I've got about 25 positive responses. It works GREAT!!! Thanks." Donald Prior

"Floodgate is awesome!. I recently started a new business on-line. I stripped the addresses of the AOL & CIS classifieds. I sent out 3,497 email letters and got over 400 people to join my company in 5 days! Needless to say, it pays for itself." David Sheeham, OMPD

"I was able to use Floodgate to extract the names from the Internet news groups. It works perfectly. Needless to say, I am very excited about the use of this new technology." Mark Eberra, Inside Connections

"This is a great piece of software and an invaluable marketing tool." Joe Kuhn, The Millennium Group

"I just thought you'd like to know that this program is fantastic. After loading it on my system, I wanted to test it out. In my first hour of using this, I collected 6,092 email addresses!" Richard Kahn, LD Communications

"I just love the Floodgate program. It saves me hours and hours of time. This is the beginning of a wonderful FUN time marketing on-line. Thank you so much for writing this program." Beth O'Neill, Eudora, KS

"Your software is brilliant, and from the technical support I've received, I can see you have a genuine love and respect of people...Floodgate is a divine package. Wish I had found it sooner." Tom Sanders, Peoria, IL

"I really like the way the Floodgate software package works. It is very easy to use, and really does the trick. It has already saved me an incredible amount of time and energy." John Berning, Jr., Fairfield, NJ

"It's going great with FLOODGATE! I like using Delphi. I just collected 50,000+ addresses within 20 minutes on-line." Richard Kahn, R&B Associates

-------------------------------------------------
E-Z ORDER FORM:

Please print out this order form and fill in the blanks......
Please send order form and check or money order, payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077-2261
(954) 341-2924


______Yes! I would like to try your cutting-edge software so that I can advertise my business to thousands of people on-line whenever I like! I understand that I have 10 days to trial the 
software. If I am not fully delighted, I will 
cheerfully be refunded the purchase price, no
questions asked! Please rush me the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package now!

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package at a substantial discount! I am ordering BOTH software packages for only $349.95. (Save $150 off the retail price....Software has sold for as much as $2,499.95)

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive free lifetime technical support.

______I want to receive the package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $18.00 for shipping charges.

______I want to receive the package 2nd DAY. I'm including $3.00 for shipping charges.

______I am also interested in purchasing a "bomb-proof" email
address and Web page to use in my marketing letter and 
NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT LOSING MY ISP. The cost of this service
is ONLY $70 per month. If you're interested in this service, PLEASE
contact David Taylor, Taylor Made Communications, 915-550-3039.

(CHECKS: ALLOW 1 WEEK FOR BANK CLEARANCE)


YOUR NAME_________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME_________________________________________________

YOUR POSITION_____________________________________________

STREET ADDRESS______________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP__________________________________________________

PHONE NUMBERS_______________________________________________

FAX NUMBERS_______________________________________________

EMAIL ADDRESSES_____________________________________________

We accept Checks or Money Orders by mail.

I agree to pay Dave Mustachi an additional $29 fee if my check is returned for insufficient or uncollectable funds.

SIGNATURE: X________________________________DATE:_______________

Please send all order forms and check or money order to payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077
(954) 341-2924


***************************************************

OR:

PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE

(If you fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check by mail. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check that you faxed to us)

Please fax the above order form and check to: 1-954-255-3713








From whgiii at amaranth.com  Sun Sep  7 06:01:37 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:01:37 +0800
Subject: GAK Ploy
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970907121556.007502a4@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <199709071252.IAA02112@users.invweb.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <1.5.4.32.19970907121556.007502a4 at pop.pipeline.com>, on 09/07/97 
   at 08:15 AM, John Young  said:

>   "There is nothing about putting this enabling technology
>   into law that will inevitably lead to it being turned on,"
>   said Robert Litt, a Deputy Assistant United States
>   Attorney.

Yeh, and the check is in the mail.




- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNBKW1Y9Co1n+aLhhAQEraAQAzeOXJNzX5e9L0k5TkeiI6IUm0Fl3jvBJ
K84onVEwCLaqWkU5Q2rLJ48qyR8ZNF35nyhMmUxgRR+8PChvs2tAuRjn90gkedrK
xbrgf4dXmnwTvzmF+joKK9urPTOQdbm1mcfEsagVRNUQPbcF33REMAC7WJReiFvg
QSnzh9JQsas=
=/Wjl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From tcmay at got.net  Sun Sep  7 21:55:17 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:55:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FUCK! how do i unregister from toad.com or the 2 other server?%
In-Reply-To: <19970908035217.14127.qmail@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Message-ID: 


At 8:42 PM -0700 9/7/97, Martin M wrote:
>I am tired, i am registered to 3 cypherpunks server and tired or receiving
>40-50 new message each day!
>
>Please someone reply!
>

Send unsuscibe messige! Do it now, I say.

(I have adjusted my message syntax to conform to the spelling and grammar
habits of the several new susribers.)


--Klaus



There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From anon at anon.efga.org  Sun Sep  7 07:22:19 1997
From: anon at anon.efga.org (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:22:19 +0800
Subject: None
Message-ID: 



Interesting article concerning monopoly telco's crying poor (as 
usual) and asking someone else, in this case citizens of the USA to 
help pay for our (Australia and ors) infrastructure 
development...unbelievable. 

Article by Andrea Evagora
 
[...]
>    In Australia, Telstra Corp. Ltd. (Melbourne) is dealing with a
[...]
>    This year, Telstra will lose US$10 million on providing Internet
>    circuits to the United States. By 2000, the total spending on
>    U.S.-bound Internet circuits from all non-U.S. service providers will
>    reach US$2.5 billion, Hibbard notes. "We are providing resources for
>    which we are not adequately compensated," he says. "At the same time,
>    I am offering U.S. users access to Australian databases without

_He_ is offering??? Just when did Hibbard start putting _his_ money 
where his mouth is? Of course Hibbard doesnt do this he is a paid 
employee doing a rather poor job. Australians are paying for this 
through their monopoly telco Telstra. 

>    getting a brass razoo." Hibbard explains that traffic from the United
>    States to Australia gets a free ride, as U.S. service providers aren't
>    contributing to the international connection.

Of course he could always pull the plug and then we'd see just how 
long the Telstra monopoly would last. Naturally the americans would 
be so eager to connect with us they'd gladly pay for a new US-Oz
cable after the free ride they've been getting till now.
    
[...]
>    Carriers that offer free local calls, such as Singapore Telecom Ltd.
>    and Telstra, are the most eager for change as they recoup little or no

Let me assure everyone that Telstra DOES NOT OFFER free local
calls. Our telephony costs in Australia are amongst the highest in the
world. We pay 25c for a local call plus monthly line rental, telephone
rental and connection charges. Its absolute bulldust to suggest they
make no money from the internet given the increase in the number of
calls a user makes once connected to the net. Telstra itself is an ISP
(through thier so called 'Big Pond' 'service'. Why do they bother if
it loses them money I wonder. Telstra try to run the timed local calls
crap every year or so as well and have managed to get enabling
legislation through parliament this year.

People want to connect to the US for a reason. At a rough guess 
perhaps it's because that's where a lot of the content is...geee 
rocket scientist stuff hey. The quotes from Hibbard clearly 
illustrate the cluelessness of Australia's monopoly telco executives 
and the anti-free market let someone else pay for it attitude (in 
this case the USA..i still can't believe the arrogance of this 
Hibbard freak) that pervades the organization. With twonks like this 
running the show no wonder he's concerned about our archaic 
infrastructure that is failing to meet the needs of the current age 
and will continue to fail due to poor forecasting and capital 
planning. 

Another good reason for Australian content developers to locate their
servers overseas.















From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sun Sep  7 07:24:10 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:24:10 +0800
Subject: GAK Ploy
Message-ID: <199709071403.QAA01830@basement.replay.com>




>    "There is nothing about putting this enabling technology
>    into law that will inevitably lead to it being turned on,"
>    said Robert Litt, a Deputy Assistant United States
>    Attorney.

Is this list turning into some kind of comedy club. Litt (rhymes with
..) couldn't lie straight in bed.

I spose implanting a nuclear devise up clit-ons ass doesn't 
necessarily mean that it will inevitably lead to it being turned 
on..just that most people would like to see that happen while he's in 
Washington DC.






From Debbie at aol.com  Sun Sep  7 22:25:08 1997
From: Debbie at aol.com (Debbie at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hi There!
Message-ID: <546891388220Pkk93756@worldnet.net>


Ladies & Gents.

Have you found the right on-line relationship yet?

We have assisted literally thousands of people like yourself find that special on-line relationship of their circuit dreams.

Our program is very unique.  You tell us what your interests are, and the type of person that you want to meet.  From this we can match you with people of the same interests and hobbies.  Our database lists thousands of members, which we can match you with.

This is a lifetime membership.  You can start and stop as often as you like.  Some want several relationships.  Others want just one real serious relationship.  It is all up to you.  A lot of these relationships have gone way past the keyboard.

Everything is completely confidential.  We let you and the other party know that we have matched you and your interests.  If both agree then we exchange Screen names or E-mail address for you.

Our lifetime membership is usually $69.95.
Because of the overwhelming response we are glad to offer you for one week only a lifetime membership for only $29.95. 

Once we receive your application, Our staff will get to work on it right away.  You can be in a new relationship in as little as one week.

Your happiness is our first priority.  We want you to tell your friends.

All you need to do to get started is to fill out the application at the bottom of the screen and mail it in with a check or money order to the address below.  Remember to let us know when you want us to stop sending you information on other members.


Thanks ahead for your order.


Screen name: or E-mail address:  ___________________________

City or Area you are from: _________________________________

Hobbies:   ______________________________________________

Interests: ________________________________________________

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From tm at dev.null  Sun Sep  7 07:32:55 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:32:55 +0800
Subject: InfoWar (The True Story of the InterNet / Part III)
Message-ID: <3412B48D.7DF0@dev.null>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 27713 bytes
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URL: 

From nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de  Sun Sep  7 08:01:37 1997
From: nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:01:37 +0800
Subject: Mandatory key escrow bill text, backed by FBI
Message-ID: <2e3be2bca962ac9df5adb7ddea7c3613@squirrel>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Mike Duvos wrote:
> This is blatantly unconstitutional and breaks new ground that the
> government has never even dared hint at before.

> The true agenda of the GAKers has finally been disclosed to the
> American public.

> Next they will want copies of all of our house keys for the
> jackbooted thugs to hold, and emergency Assault Plungers in all our
> umbrella stands ready for the cops to ram up the citizens' assholes.

> This is not simply a proposed bill.  It is an ACT OF WAR.

> It is them or us.  I pick us.

How many divisions do we have?

You have probably done more with the Eternity Service already than you
can ever hope to do with weapons.

Our strong points are ideas both those expressed as code and those
expressed as English.  Ideas catch on with other people and then they
replicate.  Ideas are hard to subvert.  Ideas are what we are good at.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQEVAwUBNBGbmJaWtjSmRH/5AQGmsQf/R4mQ4AiMsHS1PnwDzfX2i3a2Jad/g1tj
zzNzgwEN8HaegZ1r2wT9/r874cMcVsziaHDH8YPfwRDU+LLAtGZ+OuzXbK+h8Qt7
z2XCNZ3pOcZV2/6i9t7ayWb3A7y4axzIFB9UT96hi0Z0SHaZM3y6zmiCPNfxLZDy
9b9SS0FF/HvBbBSzTtOovA9UtNpbKHgYjGyuxt06ySJu5ZLgnswNQSttDJP4LF2n
E8e8h8/lnzJCX6VISuvyyEKzvmGcYsvfnxPVoG1h4knLTgkkuIssrFUzmakGKPPp
SbhWdtv8FjBB5FvDisMhHijiqRn/bhd3G59vVkq5fBfWG7ffb3R2TQ==
=WbQ0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----








From brianbr at together.net  Sun Sep  7 08:08:40 1997
From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:08:40 +0800
Subject: BXA Testimony at SAFE Hearing
Message-ID: <199709071500.LAA01932@mx02.together.net>



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 9/7/97 4:48 AM, Apache (apache at bear.apana.org.au) passed this
wisdom:

>> 3. Finds the SAFE bill unhelpful but likes its crypto-criminali-
>> zation provision and favors McCain-Kerrey's Secure Public Network 
>> Act bill or other legislation that will:
>...
>>  Offer, on a voluntary basis, firms that are in the business of 
>>  providing public cryptography keys the opportunity to obtain 
>>  government recognition, allowing them to market the 
>>  trustworthiness implied by government approval.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>BWHAHAHA this is some kind of sick joke surely.

>Get ur crypto here folks, it's approved by the gubermint.

  Therein lies the problem, it actually would be funny, if it weren't
true. The sheeple will feel its good 'cuz it is *gummint 'proved* !!
And all the ignorant suits out their will lockstep ... when in doubt
nobody gets fired for buying *gummint approved* !!! THEN, the gummint
boys can come back and say "...look 92% of businesses went along with
it" as the raison d'etre for turning it into a mandate.  I tend to
think of this process as 'lemmings followed by a bulldozer'

   

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNBLACMdZgC62U/gIEQISCgCeIqmbttUr4OJMW4IEvX5M5IcS3wIAoMdb
ec5/DGdCai/kac4R7hd+o4l7
=z941
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
         For PGP Keys -  Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key"
  "to be yourself in a world that tries, night and day, to make you just
   like everybody else - is to fight the greatest battle there ever is to
   fight and keep on fighting"  - e.e. cummings







From 98789 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep  7 23:45:50 1997
From: 98789 at ix.netcom.com (24 hour playmates)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ADULTS ONLY
Message-ID: <19970907821SAA5716@post.ix.netcom.com>


FREE 5 MINUTE PREVIEW !!!

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the best content, best picture quality and the most beautiful models!

http://www.livehardcoresex.com

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If you would like to be removed from our mailing reply by "REMOVE" 
5





From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk  Sun Sep  7 09:41:06 1997
From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:41:06 +0800
Subject: Prayer to A.M. Turing
In-Reply-To: <19970907.072429.3854.40.valdeez@juno.com>
Message-ID: <199709071632.RAA01927@server.test.net>




Monty Cantain writes:
> Oh Lord Turing, God of Messages and Pathways, please reduce the
> latency time of the remailer network!  Please accept this humble
> offering: 10110AlanMathisonTuring8ef2b1912670b51

Your email to Lord Turing may bounce, your hashcash postage doesn't
collide:

% hashcash AlanMathisonTuring 10110AlanMathisonTuring8ef2b1912670b51
collision: 0 bits
%

Adam
--

Have you exported RSA today?






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Sep  7 10:44:00 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:44:00 +0800
Subject: Cybercrime
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907172136.0082a66c@pop.pipeline.com>



The domestic arms control and disarmament agencies are 
booming. Here are samples of the tech-law-money-gov-mil
market which are both threatened and job-protected by 
strong encryption for communication and secrecy (like the 
traditional terrorists of ACDA and closed-session committees
warning of "terrifying" arms going to uncontrollable rogues):

The Department of Justice's Computer Crime and Intellectual
Property Section (CCIPS):

   http://jya.com/doj-ccips.htm

The FBI's Awareness of National Security Issues and Response
(ANSIR):

   http://jya.com/fbi-ansir.htm

National Counterintelligence Center's 1997 Report  on Foreign 
Information Collection and Industrial Espionage:

   http://jya.com/Na9757_1.htm

The Digital Copyright Clarification Bill (S.1146):

   http://jya.com/s1146.txt







From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Sep  7 11:16:13 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:16:13 +0800
Subject: [LONG} Funding Cypherpunks Projects
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 3:35 pm -0400 on 9/3/97, Tim May wrote:


> I almost deleted these messages from Bob, but have decided to say a few
> words about financing companies "to help the Cypherpunks cause."

Frankly, I wish you had, we seem to get along better that way, something I
keep forgetting,  but here goes...

> To the contrary, I never write political and socioeconomic essays with the
> expectation that someone out there will be "making something for me."

So, you just write them in vaccuo? I doubt that. Nobody writes things so
that no one ever will ever read them. Especially when they post them to an
immediate potential audience of thousands, and their words are permanently
archived for posterity in at least 10 places. :-).

Even if you posted them here so no one would act on your suggestions -- the
best ones out there, I might add, because you've thought about all of these
things longer and harder than practically anyone in the world -- they still
have value, which is why I, for one, asked for them.


> But generating "VC funding requests" is most definitely not even in my Top
> Ten of reasons.

Of course not. However, it doesn't keep your best thinking on this from
having economic value, nonetheless...

> From Day One, I have not shied away from talking about interesting building
> blocks.

Which is why I asked for your opinion, besides to set a rhetorical trap for
you, of course. :-).

> I agree with this. Certainly for all of the chants about "Cypherpunks write
> code," and the several years worth of (apparently) several dozen folks here
> writing code of some sort, what are we really left with that has had a
> major effect?

Nothing. That's because it costs money to do, and the best people have to
work for a living. Well, most of the best people do, anyway. :-).

> Most of the code apparently being written either never makes
> it into products, or is buried deeply, or just evaporates (as code tends to
> do, a la bit rot). PGP, SSH, the remailer code, and a few other such
> achivements are what lasts.

Agreed. Just think, there would be more effort put into the exercise of
writing code if people could see reward for the risk of their time and
neurons. Frankly, for the best coders _qua_ coders, probably, the only
reward, after the inherent satisfaction of doing good work, in my opinion,
is money. Like Rhett Butler said in GWTW: "People say that money doesn't
buy happiness, but it usually does, and when it can't it can buy the most
interesting substitutes." I see your life, including your door-side stack
of assault rifles, to be reasonable proof of interesting substitutes at the
very least, myself. :-).

> I don't trash such efforts. Rather, I think it means that it is vitally
> important that we think carefully about what code is interesting and
> important. This beats the hell out of people just starting in at coding for
> the sake of coding.

Indeed. And, I claim that the very best barometer of what works is what
sells in the market.

> First, this grossly oversimplifies the process of funding companies.

If *I* knew what *you* knew? Someday, when I can afford the body armor, you
can give me the breifing. :-).

> Methinks Bob has read about Jim Clarke's decision to fund Andreesson and
> Company too many times. Rarely (very rarely) do the VCs hire people to
> write the code for some vision.

Well, frankly, I'm not after VC money, but we'll talk about that in a minute.

> Second, writing code is cheap, and requires almost no capital. No
> factories, no chip making machines, no clean rooms, etc. Just a bunch of
> people with ideas doing it themselves.  Nearly all successful software
> companies started out with almost no working capital.

Agreed. However, there is opportunity cost, measured not only in the time
invested on something else, but the return on the investment of doing that
other thing. "The cost of anything is the foregone alternative." As my old
Mizzou econ prof liked to beat us with. Frankly, if you're doing things for
the glory of the revolution, or to make the world free from nation-states,
or the joy of flight, that's cool, but it don't pay the rent. It may
temporarily focus your efforts more than if you're just trying to pay the
rent, certainly, but it won't actually keep the wolves from the door nearly
as well as a ducat or two will.

I other words, it may have been the joy of flight which motivated the
Wright Brothers, but it was coach fare to Cleveland which built the DC3 and
got the rest of us actually in the air.

> (By contrast, I've watched several "idea" companies which had the "grand
> vision" first and then sought to hire the hired guns to write the code. All
> four that I have followed failed.

Certainly a bass-ackward way to do it. Unfortunately, that's the way Disney
did it, or L.B. Mayer did it,  or Gates, or Edison, or Parekh did it. They
had a picture in their head of the way the world worked, or should work,
they did things, as cheaply as possible, which should work in that picture,
and they were right. They still invested something, is my point, whether it
was their money or their time, or their inspiration.

Just because your friends spent so much money doing what they wanted to do,
Tim, or doing the wrong thing because they didn't know how, doesn't mean
that economic enterprise shouldn't exist at all. There's something to be
said for heuristics, obviously, but I think your sample size is too small.

> A handful of
> these programmers seem to be truly gifted...the rest are, well, hackers. OK
> for churning out code with well-defined specifications (and even then the
> well known Brooks' Law sorts of factors can make some of them grossly
> unproductve). The few who seem really gifted would be fools to work for a
> pittance for me--and I'm not willing to give them their easily-gotten daily
> consulting rates for months on end, etc.

Frankly, gifted programmers are not the people who make money, Tim. Robert
Noyce may have been a gifted scientist once, but in the end it was his
ability to motivate people ("...don't expect to come here and have me solve
your problems. It's *your* ass.") that mattered. That and his ability to
understand the opportunities in his market.

> Fourth, in my years of Cypherpunks involvement, I have never seen any
> reasonable investment opportunities. This is not to say there have not been
> any, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

Probably because as one of the few people around who understood what
constitutes an investment opportunity, you didn't create one?

> Side note:  What about C2 Net?  He probably--and I haven't
> checked with him on this--knew that the best opportunities were funded on a
> shoestring, by those involved directly, by those living the dream, and that
> diluting his ownership with outside funding would be a mistake. And this
> shoestring operation was able to more nimbly move to take advantage of
> opportunities, e.g., dropping the original focus on being a kind of "local
> ISP" (which is what I perceived the original CC to be) and to instead focus
> on SSLeay/Stronghold stuff.

Sameer is exactly my case in point. He decided, at the outset, to make
money, with as little investment as possible, from cryptography. He kept
looking, no, *creating*, opportunities in cryptography until he figured out
that financial cryptography was literally where the money was, and now he's
riding that pony for all it's worth.

Gates, Carnagie, Morgan, all those guys did the same thing.

> Other companies have sought funding in a grander way. E.g., PGP, Inc. I had
> no desire to invest in them, for various reasons. I wish them well, of
> course.

I look at PGP, Inc., as the second round of funding for Phil's Pretty Good
Software, Inc.. They have a product, they have a market, they have (mostly)
a managment, they needed money to go after much larger competition, like
RSA/DSI, and people with money trusted that they could do it. And, it's a
good bet, after a false start, that that's the case...

> Eric Hughes has a company, "Simple Access." To tell the truth, and in spite
> of Eric being a longtime friend of mine (since 1990 at least), I really
> have no idea what they do. The "www.sac.net" site is remarkably
> uninformative. Perhaps by design. In any case, I don't think investing
> money in this is what I want to do.

Rumor has it that they don't pay their bills, and have been stiffing
various suppliers ever since they started up. "You should think like an
illegal actor" indeed. I understand that there's enough in unpaid bills
from around the country at this point to call in the Feds, of all people,
onto SA, but most of the people holding the bag are politically opposed to
calling the cops. Kind of works out nice for Eric and Hilby, though it
makes for an interesting incentive to build one of your eternity-style
deadbeat servers, now that I think about it. It might explain why, in
addition to the reasons you've already outlined above, they haven't
actually gotten anything off the ground. What goes around comes around, and
all that.

> And there's Electric Communities (www.communities.com), containing several
> past or present Cypherpunks. I have a lot of hope from them, for
> "Microcosm," but,again, this is someone else's vision. It's too soon to
> tell if they have a killer app on their hands. If they do, then business
> magazines will write sage articles on the wisdom of the VCs. If not, as the
> odds must say is likelier, just by Bayesian odds, then they'll be
> forgotten, and the VC money will have just evaporated.

Agreed. However, you have to remember that probability works both ways. The
expected value of an investment, be it VC or not, has to be greater than
zero, or the money won't go there. That, I believe, is why we have
investors in technology, in particular cryptography.

It's why I also think that the largest investment opportunities in
cryptography will be in financial cryptography, which, I expect, requires
all the fun things that people here want to implement, anonymity,
unbreakable encryption, reputation sanction, the works, to exist in order
to work well. More to the point, all of this stuff will exist because it
will be the *cheapest* way to transact business on the net, probably by
several orders of magnitude over the way it's done now.

It's also why I think you, Tim, would be one of the best financial
cryptography investors on the planet. If you decide to "create" an
opportunity or two.

> Fifth, what I have seen from all of these experiences is that the popular
> impression of VC funding, that someone has a good idea, then finds a VC
> angel to provide seed funding, then worker bees are hired, etc., is
> basically wrong. Or at least a recipe for disaster.

Pretty much agreed. Like the old jewish shopkeeper's maxim: "First thing
you do, you get the money." That means customers, not investors. However,
in order to get customers, you have to have something to sell, which
requires an investment of some kind. Chicken and egg, maybe. That's
probably why some investors are willing to break the cycle if you can show
them where the money's going to come from. Frankly, if you sell them a
story instead of a market, they deserve to lose their money on you, and you
deserve to not get anyone's money anymore.

> The best growth opportunities come from nimble, mostly self-funded small
> teams that can learn in an evolutionary way, changing focus as failures
> occur and learning from mistakes. The worst growth opportunities come from
> "grand vision" situations.

Absolutely agree. Except of course, that those nimble self-funded small
teams have the most coherent "grand visions" in their head of anyone in the
market. They know what the world should be so well that even if nobody will
invest in their idea, they can make money with it.

"The first thing you do, get the money." However, coming from Intel, did
you notice that Intel had investors? Admittedly, software startups don't
need *that* much, money, as you've said. As long as the principals see
there's money to be made from their efforts in the long run. Or they want
to change the world. And, frankly, I think financial cryptography is the
best of both; you're getting paid to change the world.

> Sixth, we often forget that "history is written by the winners." We ask the
> five star general what his strategies were, forgetting that he became a
> general because he survived the battles and triumphed. Sort of like asking
> the Lottery winner what her strategy was....one will get answers, but they
> probably won't be useful.

Post hoc, ergo, propter hoc. Certainly. Warren Buffett talked in a Forbes
issue on portfolio managers a few years ago about a country of 268 million
chipanzees, where everyone is given a quarter, and every day the chimps
would pair off and flip coins, winner take all. After 28 days of
increasingly high-stakes "competition", a single winner would emerge, and
write a book titled "How I made $68 million in a month, working just
seconds a day".

However, like I said before, if the expected value of a given investement
is positive, then you can make money investing in enough investments just
like it, Tim, as you, of all people, know. It's not a zero sum game. That's
why it's called investing, and not gambling...

Lots of people who just go through the mechanics of "active" portfolio
management might as well invest in an index and let other people think
about such things.

However, Tim, my claim is that, as someone who knows more than practically
anyone else about this field and what it could do, you have the, forgive
me, "grand vision" thing down better than almost anyone. You invented most
of it, for starters. :-). It's one of the reasons this list is what it is,
vitriol and all. ;-). A selling point of the Schnelling Point, to torture
the language more than a little.

> Asking Jim Clarke or Bill Gates to opine on his strategies for success is
> not quite as pointless, but is not real useful either. Ask also Manny
> Fernandez about Gavilan Computer. Or ask the financiers of Ovation,
> Processor Technology, Mad Computers, Symbolics, Thinking Machines, Trilogy,
> or a hundred other examples of companies that burned through a billion
> dollars of hard-earned investor money.

I'm not so sure about that. Clearly, people like Clarke, or Gates, or lots
of other people, for that matter, know how to make money just by investing
their time and intuition into something. That skill is mostly learned, I
think. Gates' parents and family taught it to him, for instance, and it's
clear that somebody taught Clarke as well, or he wouldn't have been able to
do Netscape after SGI. Whether Clarke, or Gates, for that matter, can
continue to do so is anybody's guess, but clearly, they're making it
happen, or we wouldn't be talking about them.

I also believe that lots of other people who know almost what you know
about cryptography could learn a little about making a business, pick up a
lot of that financial cryptography that's on the floor, and make the stuff
we all think should happen faster than if they just wrote code for the
cause and hoped that people would use it. Money makes a good proxy for
measuring success, and it buys stuff too...

> Seventh, I have no doubt that if I issued a cattle call for programmers to
> write C code for some pet project I'd get some bites. The "burn rate" for a
> supported programmer is higher than the salary, of course. (Many will work
> for a share of the company, plus a living wage, but this of course means
> incorporation....not a simple matter of just offering to hire programmers.)

Yes, you have to actually spend money (in some form, even time) in order to
make money. And, frankly, if you spend enough time doing something well,
you'll probably make money too, in spite of your reason for doing things.
PRZ is a great example of this, which actually proves my point.

> Those small software companies I mentioned burned through $5 million in 3
> or so years, with nothing to show for it. And they sure did have the grand
> vision.

Well, if you count the odds of a single company succeeding, that's about
what you expect, right? However, if you looked at, say 30 of such
companies, even picking them at random would probably pay for your losses
from the ones which hit.

> Sorry, but I have no desire in even "giving away" a million bucks,
> let alone several.

I don't think I said anything about giving money away. I said that you, of
all people, know significantly more about cryptography, financial
cryptography in particular, that you would be a person who could make real
nice money investing in it. Unlike most investors who will be investing in
strong crypto and privacy, you are in a very good position to create your
own opportunities, instead of waiting for them to present themselves.

> In 1993 I elected to help fund a small startup with an
> extremely promising technology.  And that $65K investment
>necessitated my sale of
> $100K worth of various stocks, inclduding Intel, due to the income tax laws
> being what they are. That $100K worth of stock would now be worth $600K,
> roughly, given that Intel has gone from $15 to $100 in that period. C'est
> la vie.

The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. But, like Heinlein said,
"Of course the game is rigged. But, you can't win if you don't play."

> But is sure makes me more cautious about funding little startups.

Amen.

> And I for damned sure won't write out checks for people I only casually
> know from this mailing list and from occassional Cypherpunks meetings!!!)

I doubt that that's the way *you'd* invest in crypto at all. Nobody but
fools would do that. However, you, not being a fool, do know what to invest
in, and, more to the point, you'd be more likely to make the stuff you want
to happen if you were actively engaged, i.e., invested, in the process.
Given what you've done in your life so far, that is.

> I could easily spend $500K (costing me an actual $700K before taxes, less
> some tax deductions as a business, possibly) hiring a staff of several
> programmers for slightly more than a year. Then it'd be gone. Would a
> "product"  be ready? You tell me the odds.

Frankly, I think they'd be pretty good. Given what we've agreed before
about what to code being the most important part of coding. I also expect
that others with more money than time, would kick some in to make it happen.

> And what would come out of such an effort? I've watched a certain American
> living in Europe burn through most (and maybe all?) of his fortune, and
> (some say) his family's fortune, and he had the best of pedigrees and the
> best set of ideas there is. Now many of us quibble with the choices he
> made, in licensing, etc., but this should be a cautionary tale to anyone
> who thinks such funding is easy.

You're talking about David Chaum, of course. And hindsight, which is always
bullshit (my hindsight in particular ;-)), says that he should have worked
on financial cryptography, a field he invented, and let other people try to
be banks, and then software companies, and now credit card associations.
Dolby is his business model, not Citibank, or VISA.

> I'm not being defeatist. I know that sometimes a $500K investment could
> turn into tens of millions. It sometimes happens. But usually not, even for
> the proposals that get funded. (And VCs tend to look at 10 to 30 proposals
> for every one they actually fund, so the odds in the Cypherpunks pool ain't
> real great that even a single proposal would reach the funding stage, let
> alone turn into another Netscape or Yahoo.)

I think that the time has come to change the conventional wisdom on that.
In my opinion, there is enough cryptography out there, particularly
financial cryptography, that can be funded to see what sells. Stuff which,
by your own admission on this list as far back as 3 years ago, needs more
money than people can donate time for, though not as much as you thought
back then.

> No, I'm not a defeatist. But I worked very hard for many years, saving a
> large fraction of my paycheck and saving my purchased stock (including
> stock options, which were not as lucrative as popular myth might have
> it...what made them now worth so much money is that I didn't sell them when
> they became available, as so many of my coworkers did). I don't intend to
> blow through half a million or a million bucks a year funding some grand
> vision,

I think we're getting to the nub of things, here, and maybe a way to hone
the point a bit. I'm saying, for a lot of technology, that it may not cost
$500K. It might, because of the diseconomies of scale for internet software
and the lack of barriers to entry for the extremely clueful technology
folks out there, be possible to get a fully functional product to market
for as little as $250k, if you could figure out a way to standardize most
of the administrative/legal/financial cruft so that the current crop of
20-something proto-crypto-entrepreneurs could concentrate on getting stuff
done quickly. That, in fact, is what a bunch of us want to do with this
e$lab thing we're kicking around.

However, Tim, someone like you doesn't *need* something like e$lab (if
anyone does at all :-)). You already *know* how to invest in something
properly. You *know* who all the good people are and where all the bodies
are buried. And you clearly know how to squeeze a buck until it hollers.
Hell, you can even fight off an assault of black-nomex-clad ninja bill
collectors. :-). Finally, you probably could do it for significantly *less*
than that $250k...

Someone like you could go out there and find, or, better, build, something
which is just sitting at the edge of the cliff, full of kinetic energy
already, and kick it off onto the market's head. There's shitloads of that
stuff out there right now, and if you thought about it, you'd know more
about what to do, and how to do it, than anyone else. Anyone.

And, I claim, that *that* is the only way to *deploy* any of the stuff on
your list in any *useful* fashion quickly enough to stop the kinds of
totalitarian statism that seems to be afoot this week. If you make
something which saves people whole bunches of money and which uses strong
cryptography to do it, then privacy through strong cryptography isn't just
a good idea, it's a business necessity. Again, you're the person who can do
this best, I think.

> especially when there seem to be few grand visions that are
> realistic.

As the one person I know whose reality distortion field is bigger (and more
coherent, I might add) than mine (I'm also modest to a fault; ask me...), I
find this hard to believe. *Make* a grand vision which is realistic, if you
don't like what's out there. Frankly, you already have one. Just add money
and stir rapidly...

> (Plenty of zealots, though.)

So it seems. ;-).

> The Pagemaker team wrote it on a shoestring. No VCs until much later, when
> a product existed. (BTW, similar to the models for both PGP, Inc. and
> C2Net, where actual products are actually being sold or distributed.)

Exactly. However, in the case of Pagemaker, the shoestring was *paid* for.
That's why he made out like a bandit. Because he knew exactly what he
wanted, hired the programmers, told them what to write, and paid them for
their work, he *owned* the code when he was done.

This is exactly what I see you doing.

Same thing with C2NET. My bet is that, for the moment, at least, Sameer
owns it *all*, and, frankly, most of the people who work for him are just
happy to get paid to do what they love to do, because nobody's investing in
the market right now the way Sameer does. When people start to really
invest in the market, Sameer's going to have to offer stock options, like
Gates did, to keep people. But he's never going to need to get actual
investment from anyone ever, if he plays his card right. Of, course, like
Gates, he might have to go public someday if he's got too many option
holders. That's a nice problem to have, as I've said before.

My point, Tim, is that you could take any of the projects on your list, or
just the best one, and fund its development as cheaply as possible, on a
shoestring, and do exactly what Sameer or Gates did. Though obviously not
on the same scale as Gates, of course, but certainly the same mechanical
process, and with more than enough return on your investment.

> As it happens, I knew Adam Osbourne.

Great. So you know how to do it then.

> The problem with your "rhetorical traps," by your own admission, is that
> you just don't know what you're talking about in most cases, at least
> insofar as startups and funding go.

You may be right, and, frankly, at the moment, all I can do is bark at the
end of my rope about it. :-). Your uncanny talent for ad hominems aside, I
believe that my *analysis* of the situation is still valid, no matter my
motives or credentials to make it. Frankly, there are people with more than
enough credentials agreeing with me on a lot of this stuff. However, that
and a nickle, etc...

That analysis is that you, Tim May, the person who knows more about this
class of stuff than anyone out there, would, in my (completely unworthy
;-)) opinion, be an ideal person to make the right stuff happen. You have
the (if you'll pardon the aspersions on your character) "vision", you have
the knowlege, -- you even have the money -- to create your own
opportunities in cryptography, especially in financial cryptography, which
is the lever long enough to lift the world, as it were.

And it's a shame you don't just up and do it.

> I recall your "hothouse" VC proposal (I
> may have the name wrong, but the idea was the same as one of those hothouse
> schemes, with offices for budding entrepreneurs, etc.).

Yup. It's called e$lab, for the time being, and it's supposed to be modeled
on IdeaLab in Sacremento, and ThermoElectron, here in Massachusetts, and
it's purpose is to put together as many financial cryptography companies as
possible.  Thank you the plug, however backhanded. Just spell my name
right, or not, and I'll be happy. Any mention you can walk away from, and
all that...

> Maybe in another post I'll give my views on why such hothouse schemes are
> lousy ideas.

Wonderful. Love to hear it. Be prepared to stand in line for a little while
at the microphone, though... :-).

> But if yours is up and running and headed for success, I'll be
> happy to stand corrected.

I'd be happy to stand and correct you, someday, hopefully soon. If it
works, that is. Another nice problem to have. Certainly e$lab represents my
willingness to put people with money and business acumen together with
people who know financial cryptography until the people who know financial
cryptography have enough business accumen to teach it themselves.

Whether e$lab ends up a 'hothouse' in the model we've all come to know and
love remains to be seen. It doesn't mean we get to quit, though.

Sameer's original idea for C2NET didn't work, or his second, either, for
that matter. Microsoft isn't Traff-o-Data anymore. However, the "grand
vision" is still there, and I'm just as convinced that it's right as they
were of theirs...

> John chooses to do the things he chooses to do. He has more interest in, or
> faith in, the legal process. I have more interest in, or faith in, the
> expository process. I write about 100 times as much as he does. To each
> their own.

Indeed. Maybe we're circling around another important truth here. Mark
Twain made his name, and lots of money, writing. You don't need money, but
you've made your name by thinking, writing, and talking, for the most part.
Mark Twain spent horrendous chunks of his personal fortune on a supposedly
revolutionary printing press, or maybe it was a precursor to  the
typewriter, something like that. His famous quote, "Put all your eggs in
one basket. And watch the basket." comes from that experience.

Heck, maybe all *I'm* good for is shooting my mouth off too. (That and
conning people into doing fun projects, hopefully for money.) It would be
nice, someday, to have done a little more than that, though.

It could be that you're not tempermentally suited to invest your time,
effort, and money into strong cryptography as a business, even if you did
know more about where the future is and how to do it cheaper than anyone
else, as I believe you do.

> I won't get involved in Bob's seeming challenge to me to start matching
> John's investments.

I'm not challenging, per se. That's a little more effort than I'm capable
of. Wheedling might be more apt, but that's an undignified appelation for
my good intent, here. ;-).

> It costs money, but almost certainly not VC money. Take just one example,
> an offshore credit reporting agency not bound by U.S. restrictions under
> the FCRA. There is no need for a VC to fund this...this is best done "on a
> shoestring" by someone who starts small and expands.

Exactly my point. I think, myself, that venture vapital is probably an
industrial phenomenon, caused by transfer pricing inefficiencies in a
hierarchically organized, government controlled, capital market. (But,
that, of course, is an indecipherable jargon-pile for another day.)

I'm sure that someday -- after someone *else* makes a bunch of money
bootstrapping various successful financial cryptography companies --
venture capitalists will invest in financial cryptography. Maybe, if we
make something like e$lab work, somebody in the venture capital business
will want to play there some day, too.

Hopefully, if need to have a second round at all, shares in e$lab would be
stable -- and large -- enough to be more in line with straight up
institutional investment than venture capital. Again, a nice problem to
have. And maybe one we don't even need to have. e$lab may only be of a
certain size. Certainly if the investment's small enough and the returns
are large enough, and if every person in china gave us a nickle... :-).

> (Think of how Amazon.com got started. Lots of similar examples.)

Indeed.

> Personally, I would only get involved in such a thing if I lived offshore,
> as the government could otherwise come after me (even for funding such a
> thing). But the interesting pros and cons of such a project are well worth
> discussing. Maybe someone out there will do it.

I think that lots of what you want to do don't need to be done offshore,
and, remembering that whatever you do offshore still hangs your ass here
Stateside, if it can be proven, it doesn't help to be there much. People
like one of the Duty Free Shops partners, and a commodity trader in Zug,
Switzerland (Not to be confused with ZOG, Palestine :-)) come to mind. In
addition, there are lots of foriegn nationals trying to make some of this
"regulatory arbitrage" stuff happen as we speak.

Anyway, you yourself have said here, many times (check the archives ;-)),
that technology has to be built which is jurisdiction independant, anyway.
Besides, you've also said here, many times (check the arch)
that living offshore, except maybe for the nice weather in Anguilla, is not
what it would be cracked up to be for someone like you, anyway...

> (This space reserved for someone to chime in about Vince Cate's ISP
> operation in Anguilla.)

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, etc...

> Why don't you knock off the "Put up or shut up" kinds of remarks? It's
> never a good basis for investment, to respond to "dares."

My apologies. I'm not entirely sure I was "daring" you to do anything. And,
I agree that responding to a "dare" is not a rational investment strategy.
However, I bet that if you put some of your considerable expertise in both
investing and in cryptography, that you could figure out away to make a lot
of the stuff that we talk about here on this list real.

(Maybe, if I'm not careful and I keep bugging you enough, even assasination
markets. ;-))

> I'll say what I want to say. Maybe even someday a good investment will
> appear. But from what I've seen of the folks at gatherings I meet them at,
> few of them would be good candidates for a VC-funded approach.

Nope. More like a hands-on, bootstrap, create your own opportunity
approach, which is what I'm talking about. Something you could probably do,
and probably do better than anyone else out there, by virtue of having
created this "vision" we all want to see happen.

> No, what it shows is the power of small entrepreneurs doing very local
> things, with the things that succeed being all that we remember (the losers
> are forgotten).

Agreed, but again, that's not the point. The point is, that for a given
amount of money, time, and determination, more money is made than is
invested over all. And, frankly, I do not believe that people like Sameer
is "lucky" (heh...) anyway. He made his luck by not giving up on making
money with privacy and cryptography. What he found was the most money can
be made in financial cryptography, which is, oddly enough, the way to make
the most privacy happen as well. Funny how that economics stuff works...

> Yeah, well let us know when "e$lab" gets really rolling.

As Telulah Bankhead said to Chico Marx under lewd circumstances: "And so
you shall, you old fashioned boy"...

> Personally, I
> think you undercut your own significance by the heavy reliance on cutesy
> names centering around "$" in place of "s," as in "e-$pam" and "e$lab."
> Cutesy wears thin fast.

Cutsey may be as cutesy does, but heavy reliance on it or not, it's not
nearly as skinny a gambit as periodically calling for "somebody" to
suitcase nuke Washington, however pleasant the prospect may be to some of
us on occasion.

> In the meantime, knock off with the dares.

Admittedly, I did not play fair back there. When one bangs on the cage of a
900 lb gorilla with a stick, one should expect a little shit thrown in
one's face in return...

I mean, not that you're a gorilla or anything, Tim. Or 900 pounds. Or even
throw shit, for that matter, but, well, maybe I better quit, now...

> Maybe we should just mutually ignore each other for a while.

Sounds like a good idea. I keep forgetting that when we try to engage in
civil discourse, I say something that pisses you off and my throat gets
ripped out...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From declan at pathfinder.com  Sun Sep  7 12:44:22 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:44:22 +0800
Subject: BXA Testimony at SAFE Hearing
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906234350.00705f64@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 



Keep in mind that what you have is prepared testimony, written sometimes
days before the guy actually speaks, often by his assistant. Often folks
depart from it substantially; sometimes they ignore it completely. 

The most interesting part of a hearing is the back-and-forth q&a period
where folks have to depart from prepared text and think on their feet. For
that you need the transcript.

-Declan


On Sat, 6 Sep 1997, John Young wrote:

> See William Reinsch's testimony on the administration's 
> encryption policy at the September 4 SAFE hearing:
> 
>    http://jya.com/bxa090497.htm
> 
> Perhaps dissimulating, or not then clued to the draft GAK bill,
> Reinsch states:
> 
> 1. Foreign crypto products are not as widely available as export
> control critics claim, and thus do not threaten US products.
> 
> 2. The administration is against mandatory key escrow.
> 
> 3. Finds the SAFE bill unhelpful but likes its crypto-criminalization
> provision and favors McCain-Kerrey's Secure Public Network 
> Act bill or other legislation that will:
> 
>   Expressly confirm the freedom of domestic users to choose 
>   any type or strength of encryption.
> 
>   Explicitly state that participation in a key management 
>   infrastructure is voluntary .
> 
>   Set forth legal conditions for the release of recovery 
>   information to law enforcement officials pursuant to lawful 
>   authority and provide liability protection for key recovery 
>   agents who have properly released such information.
> 
>   Criminalize the misuse of keys and the use of encryption to 
>   further a crime. 	  
> 
>   Offer, on a voluntary basis, firms that are in the business of 
>   providing public cryptography keys the opportunity to obtain 
>   government recognition, allowing them to market the 
>   trustworthiness implied by government approval.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Leads to the testimony of NSA's Cowell and Justice's Litt would
> be appreciated.
> 
> Representative Weldon remarked at length about encryption and
> defense matters on September 4, supporting the administration's
> policy:
> 
>    http://jya.com/weldon.txt  (46K)
> 
> 






From declan at pathfinder.com  Sun Sep  7 12:48:45 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:48:45 +0800
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 




 >me neither... it's fucking mind-boggling....
> >and where's all the 'censorship' people????
> >it's like -- no one can make the 'connection' ....
> >the CDA and FCA lists are dead ... not a word ...
> >how can we all have wet powder at the same time?
> 

The CDA list has been moribund since its inception. A waste of time. My
list, f-c-a, has covered recent crypto events exhaustively. Even those who
are far from cypherpunkish in their views enjoy it; Mike Nelson, a former
White House crypto-lobbyist, told me at my party yesterday that it was the
best list of its type out there.

http://www.well.com/~declan/fc/

-Declan








From azur at netcom.com  Sun Sep  7 12:53:42 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:53:42 +0800
Subject: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part I), was Democracy is thetrue enemy...
In-Reply-To: <199709061824.NAA23842@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 



I think this discussion regarding democracy vs. anarchy is misguided.  It
may be more important recognizing where the control of democratic
government is lodged.  The following excerpts, from the Soverign
Individual, make an excellent case that democracy is not in and of itself
the primary cause of many of our objections, but rather the means of
democracy.

--------

			WHO CONTROLS GOVERNMENT?

The question of who controls the government has almost always been asked as
a political question. It has had many answers, but almost uniformly these
involved identifying the political party, group, or faction that dominated
the control of a particular state at a particular moment. You probably have
not heard much about a government controlled by its customers. Thinking
about government as an economic unit leads on to analyze the control of
government in economic rather than political terms.

In this view, there are three basic alternatives in the control of
government, each of which entails a fundamentally different set of
incentives: proprietors, employees, and customers.

Proprietors

In rare cases governments are sometimes controlled by a proprietor, usually
a hereditary leader who for all intents and purposes owns the country. For
example, the Sultan of Brunei treats the government of Brunei somewhat like
a proprietorship.

Governments controlled by proprietors have strong incentives to reduce the
costs of providing protection or monopolizing violence in a given area. But
so long as their rule is secure, they have little incentive to reduce the
price (tax) they charge their customers below the rate that optimizes
revenues. The higher the price a monopolist can charge, and the lower his
actual costs, the greater the profit he will make.

Employees

It is easy to characterize the incentives that prevail for governments
controlled by their employees. They would be similar incentives in other
employee-controlled organizations. First and foremost, employee-run
organizations tend to favor any policy that increases employment and oppose
measures which reduce jobs. A government controlled by its employees would
seldom have incentives to either reduce the costs of government or the
price charged to their customers. However, where conditions impose strong
price resistance, in the form of opposition to higher taxes, governments
controlled by employees would be more likely to let their revenues fall
below their outlays than to cut their outlays. In other words, their
incentives imply that they may be inclined toward chronic deficits, as
governments controlled by proprietors would not be.

Customers

The medieval merchant republics, like Venice, examples of governments
controlled by their customers. There a group of wholesale merchants who
required protection effectively controlled the government for centuries.
They were genuinely customers for the protection service government
provided, not proprietors. They paid for the service. They did not seek to
profit from their control of government's monopoly of violence. If some
did, they were prevented from doing so by the other customers for long
periods of time. Other examples of governments controlled by their
customers include democracies and republics with limited franchise, such as
the ancient democracies, or the American republic in its founding period.
At that time, only those who paid for the government, about 10 percent of
the population, were allowed to vote.

Governments controlled by their customers, like those of proprietors, have
incentives to reduce their operating costs as far as possible. But unlike
governments controlled by either proprietors or employees, governments
actually controlled by their customers have incentives to hold down the
prices they charge. Where customers rule, governments are lean and
generally unobtrusive, with low operating costs, minimal employment, and
low taxes. A government controlled by its customers sets tax rates not to
optimize the amount the government can collect but rather to optimize the
amount that the customers can retain. Like typical enterprises in
competitive markets, even a monopoly controlled by its customers would be
compelled to move toward efficiency. It would not be able to charge a
price, in the form of taxes, that exceeded costs by more than a bare margin.

--------








From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Sep  7 15:08:12 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:08:12 +0800
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907214653.0083ec48@pop.pipeline.com>



Declan wrote:

>The CDA list has been moribund since its inception. A waste of time. My
>list, f-c-a, has covered recent crypto events exhaustively. Even those who
>are far from cypherpunkish in their views enjoy it; Mike Nelson, a former
>White House crypto-lobbyist, told me at my party yesterday that it was the
>best list of its type out there.
>
>http://www.well.com/~declan/fc/


Gosh, Declan, isn't Mike Nelson's endorsement a bit awkward
for an fight-censorship list? Not to mention his show and slather
the host at your do?

That's assuming your bash was not a Time-reimbursible. If
it was, then the WH rub-down and suck-up fits, and may god 
deliver the heaven-on-earth reward: White House Correspondent,
spin navvy to the free world leader.







From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com  Sun Sep  7 15:26:28 1997
From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:26:28 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
Message-ID: <199709072216.PAA12754@sirius.infonex.com>




Tim May espoused:
> I'm surprised this wasn't hushed up. The U.S. intelligence community has
> known this for a long time, and reports to Congress have alluded to this.

  Why hush it up? Odd, isn't it, that this interview will air on TV just
as Freeh is pushing for mandatory GAK to 'protect' us from nuclear terrorists 
with suitcase bombs? I bet it's just one of them coincidences...

SynchronicityMonger






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Sep  7 15:29:16 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:29:16 +0800
Subject: Cryptoast Novel: Flame War
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907220745.0083f92c@pop.pipeline.com>



Flame War, by Jonathan Quittner and Michelle Slatalla,
William Morrow, New York, 1997. 291 pp. $24.00
ISBN 0-688-14366-0

Jacket blurb:

As the U.S. Congress prepares to adopt a state-of-the-art
encryption program with a secret key that would allow
government access to all electronic communications, a
brilliant codemaker stands ready to expose the program's
critical flaw. Together with a determined band of
cypherpunks and hacker activists, he plans to unveil his
own code, which will ensure the privacy of all communication
on the Internet -- and that not even the government will
hold the key.

Fresh out of law school, Harry Garnet walks straight into
trouble when he accidentally delivers a deadly diskette
that explodes inside the computer of a mathematics
professor -- and kills him. In the aftermath, Harry joins
up with the man's clever daughter, Annie Ames, to track
the killer. Ther journey leads from a sleepy Adirondack
town to New York city, where -- with the inadvertent help
of Harry's scheming hacker friend Blaney -- Harry learns 
of the professor's connection to the anarchists and computer
phreaks who make up the underground Urban Crypto Militia.

The group's leader, Lionel Sullivan, is as talented a
codemaker as the professor had been. As the only one of
the bomber's intended victims who has managed to survive,
he can also offer Harry and Anne crucial insights into the
killer's motives. But it's not long before the bomber strikes
again -- this time against Harry and Annie, who still possess
the professor's secret computer files.

In a riveting race agaisnt time, Harry and Annie must navigate
secret networks and on-line fantasy worlds as they struggle to
unlock the professor's final message. It seems to point to a
fatal crack in the Patriot encryption program, which is about
to become the national standard -- and which Lionel and his
group are about to challenge in a dramatic showdown. Unless
the bomber gets to them first.

Jonathan Quittner and Michelle Slatalla's last book, a non-
fiction account of rival teenage gangs in cyberspace, was widely
praised for its novelistic texture and fast pace. Now, in
Flame War, they use their keen jounalistic instincts and eye
for detail to create a fictional world that's as fresh as
today's news -- and a climax that's plausible enough that it
could become tomorrow's headlines.

------

Joshua Quittner creted the website The Netly News and is a
columnist for Time magazine. Michelle Slatalla's work has
appeared in Wired magazine, among others, and has been
syndicated in two hundred newspapers nationwide. Together,
they are the authors of Masters of Deception: The Gang
That Ruled Cyberspace. The live on Long Island, New York,
with their two daughters (and another one on the way).







From hanne at squirrel.owl.de  Sun Sep  7 17:21:11 1997
From: hanne at squirrel.owl.de (Johannes Kroeger)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:21:11 +0800
Subject: Weasel nymserver closed due to child porn investigation
Message-ID: <19970907224816.29967@squirrel.owl.de>

On Monday, September 1st, 1997, a police officer from the German
"Internet Patrol" in Munich contacted my provider and me by phone
and informed us that he investigates a case of child pornography
posted through weasel.owl.de and the nym.alias.net mail-to-news
gateway on August 17th.  Today my provider officially told me to
close my nymserver because they fear legal hassles if more illegal
material is sent from weasel during the present investigations.

I've taken the following measures to comply with their request:

1.  Mail to send at weasel.owl.de bounces with the error message:
"Sending mail from weasel.owl.de is disabled until further notice."
Remailer operators, please add send at weasel.owl.de to your destination
block lists.

2.  Weasel.owl.de does not allow creation of new accounts.

3.  Mail to weasel.owl.de users will be remailed as usual, until I
have transferred the accounts to another nymserver.  I would be very
grateful if the admins of nym.alias.net or anon.efga.org are willing
to host weasel's nyms until the investigations are closed and weasel
is hopefully up again.

Last but not least: the only police contact until now was by phone;
neither my provider nor I were forced to copy or decrypt anything.

-- 
Johannes Kroeger		
Send mail with subject "send pgp-key" to get my PGP key

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From tm at dev.null  Sun Sep  7 17:31:46 1997
From: tm at dev.null (CypherPunks Chief SpokesPerson)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:31:46 +0800
Subject: CypherPunks Theology (Required Reading)
Message-ID: <34134502.273@dev.null>



[headers didn't exist yet]
   
   In the beginning, God created the bit. And the bit was a zero.
   
   On the first day, he toggled the 0 to 1, and the Universe was.  (In
those days, bootstrap loaders were simple, and "active low" signals 
didn't yet exist.)
   
   On the second day, God's boss wanted a demo, and tried to read the 
bit.
This being volatile memory, the bit reverted to a 0. And the universe
wasn't. God learned the importance of backups and memory refresh, and 
spent the rest of the day (and his first all-nighter) reinstalling the 
universe.
   
   On the third day, the bit cried "Oh, Lord! If you exist, give me a
sign!" And God created rev 2.0 of the bit, even better than the original
prototype. Those in Universe Marketing immediately realized that "new 
and improved" wouldn't do justice to such a grand and glorious creation.
   And so it was dubbed the Most Significant Bit.  Many bits followed, 
but only one was so honored.
   
   On the fourth day, God created a simple ALU with 'add' and 'logical
shift' instructions. And the original bit discove red that -- by 
performing a single shift instruction -- it could become the Most 
Significant Bit.
And God realized the importance of computer security.
   
   On the fifth day, God created the first mid-life kicker, rev 2.0 of 
the ALU, with wonderful features, and said "Forget that add and shift 
stuff.
Go forth and multiply."  And God saw that it was good.
   
   On the sixth day, God got a bit overconfident, and invented 
pipelines, register hazards, optimizing compilers, crosstalk, 
restartable instructions, micro interrupts, race conditions, and 
propagation delays.
Historians have used this to convincingly argue that the sixth day 
must have been a Monday.
   
   On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced Windows into 
the Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Sep  7 18:44:52 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:44:52 +0800
Subject: Denning-Baugh on Crypto Crime
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970908012348.00b26190@pop.pipeline.com>



See Dorothy Denning and William Baugh's testimony on
organized crime and terrorist use of crypto at Senator Kyl's 
September 3 hearing: 

http://guru.cosc.georgetown.edu/~denning/crypto/Denning-Baugh-Testimony.txt






From apache at bear.apana.org.au  Sun Sep  7 19:13:06 1997
From: apache at bear.apana.org.au (Apache)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:13:06 +0800
Subject: Weasel nymserver closed due to child porn investigation
In-Reply-To: <19970907224816.29967@squirrel.owl.de>
Message-ID: <199709080205.MAA11874@bear.apana.org.au>




> On Monday, September 1st, 1997, a police officer from the German
> "Internet Patrol" in Munich contacted my provider and me by phone

Where r the pigs from the Internet Patrol when u need them. Only last 
week I was mugged on my way to a server.






From azur at netcom.com  Sun Sep  7 19:45:13 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:45:13 +0800
Subject: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), was Democracy is thetrue enemy...
Message-ID: 



Many, beginning with de Toquivelle, have noted that democracy brings with
it the unhappy possibility of a tyranny of the majority.  The reasons for
this shortcoming are closely tied to the decision of whom within the
democracy receives the franchise and how in a representative democracy
officeholders are elected.

Our elections are corrupted by bribery - not the big money paid to
candidates by corporate donors, but the taxpayers' money offered to voters
by the candidates themselves.

For some reason, campaign finance reform always centers on private money,
as if it were perfectly OK to use public money to buy elections. Yet
critics of democracy, including friendly critics, have always pointed out
that the Achilles' heel of democracy is its tendency to turn the ballot box
into an instrument of plunder, as voters learn to vote for those who
promise them other people's money.

One of the justifications for democracy is that everyone's interest should
be represented in government. But there are interests and interests. The
homeowner who locks his door is looking out for his own interest just as
much as the burglar who picks the lock, but not exactly in the same way.
The voter who wants to keep his own money isn't seeking the same thing as
the voter who wants the state to give him someone else's money.

The darkest warnings of democracy's critics are being furfilled, precisely
because of entitlement programs that already exist, which are driving the
federal government into an abyss of debt.  Touching the big entitlement
programs - the ones available to the middle class - is "political suicide."
The president exploits this fact when he plays chicken with Republicans who
want to reform those programs. All of which shows that we really know that
democracy's critics were right. Too many voters are already bought - not by
corporate campaign donors, but by the government itself. Worst of all, we
accept this as normal, healthy politics even as it threatens to ruin us.

Curbing private spending is a superficial reform that may even backfire
eliminating the equalizing power of private money thereby increasing the
advantages of incumbency. The only reform that could really help would be
to curb the buying of votes with government money. That means following the
counsel of the philosopher John Stuart Mill, and limiting the franchise to
taxpayers who don't get income from the government.

This means that if you receive money from the federal (or state, or local)
government, you shouldn't be allowed to vote in the next federal (or state,
or local) election. This is no more an insult to the voter than dismissal
cause is an insult to a prospective juror. It's a precaution in the
interest protecting the integrity of the electoral process - and a
precaution we should have taken long ago, before fiscal responsibility
became "political suicide."







From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  7 20:27:49 1997
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:27:49 +0800
Subject: Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem
Message-ID: <19970908030857.4949.qmail@hotmail.com>



>At 12:37 AM 9/6/97 PDT, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
>>GCC(Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem)
>>GCC uses the newest chaos logic and is conventional cryptosystem 
>>stream cipher encryption. It is high speed and allows variable-length 
keys,
>>making it very reliable and suitable for use in multimedia.
>>http://www.iisi.co.jp/reserch/GCC-over.htm
>>[Products using it, user-friendliness, etc.]
>
>Good user interfaces and high speed are important, but not enough.
>How strong is the cypher?  Where is the academic research behind it?
>What is the algorithm?  Why should we trust it?  Who else has tested 
it?
>Other people have built cyphers based on chaotic systems, and found
>they were weak when analyzed properly.  Building good cryptosystems is
>difficult.
>
>The web page doesn't give any details about the algorithm,
>except saying that it uses chaos and strange attractors,
>uses variable-length keys, and has a structure that uses
>XOR of the stream cypher with the plaintext.
>It does say the algorithm has a 0-1 balance of 0.5/0.5 
>(which any good cryptosystems do) and has a medium-sized state space 
(2**96).
>
>It claims that because it's a one-way stream cypher, that makes it
>safe against chosen plaintext attacks.  That's not true.
>Choose a plaintext of all zeros, and that gives you the
>output of the chaotic system which you can analyze for patterns.
>If you know the structure of the chaotic system, you can
>analyze the mathematics to see how to find the state space,
>and how to find the future output from the current output and
>the state space - if the algorithm is strong, this is difficult,
>but if the algorithm is weak, this is easy.  If you don't publish
>the algorithm, nobody can prove that it's strong, and in the
>world of cryptosystems, that means nobody will trust it,
>because we know how weak many other strong-looking algorithms are.
>
>
>
Please see http://arrirs02.uta.edu/ccc/upcoming.html.
and,I have thesis of this algorithm write in Japanese language.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From Syniker at aol.com  Sun Sep  7 21:10:20 1997
From: Syniker at aol.com (Syniker at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:10:20 +0800
Subject: A helluva way to run a country, er, a world
Message-ID: <970907234651_658096879@emout11.mail.aol.com>



whooooppssss
I DO have to retract what I said about F-C-A...
and better do it here...
I get lot's of my first info from Declan
on that list -- as in this weeks calif legislature vote
and I DO appreciate it
and would call it invaluable, for all of us, I'm sure...

sorry dec.........larry.






From mgmicro at usa.net  Sun Sep  7 21:22:36 1997
From: mgmicro at usa.net (Martin M)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:22:36 +0800
Subject: FUCK! how do i unregister from toad.com or the 2 other server ?%
Message-ID: <19970908035217.14127.qmail@dns01.ops.usa.net>



I am tired, i am registered to 3 cypherpunks server and tired or receiving
40-50 new message each day!

Please someone reply!

Martin
mgmicro at usa.net 






From opportunities at spfcorp.com  Mon Sep  8 12:22:55 1997
From: opportunities at spfcorp.com (opportunities at spfcorp.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Equipment Financing Broker Oppt'y
Message-ID: <199709081931.PAA13191@qlink2info.qlink2info.com>



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Tel: 305-870-0710

To avoid future mailings please type "Remove" 
in the subject box & email it back to us.






From brandy212 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  8 12:24:07 1997
From: brandy212 at hotmail.com (brandy212 at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:24:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XXXX 1800 Free Sex Sites..Go 4 Free
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@hotmail.com>


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From tm at dev.null  Sun Sep  7 21:28:57 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:28:57 +0800
Subject: InfoWar (2) / Part III of The True Story of the InterNet
Message-ID: <3413798B.31E0@dev.null>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 12329 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sun Sep  7 23:19:18 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:19:18 +0800
Subject: Show Me the Warheads!
Message-ID: <199709080605.IAA15001@basement.replay.com>



Chief Cypherpunks Spokesperson Mixmaster wrote:
> 
> Tim May espoused:
> > I'm surprised this wasn't hushed up. The U.S. lying fucks 
> > intelligence community has known this for a long time, and reports
> > to Ratfuck Congress have alluded to this.
> 
>   Why hush it up? Odd, isn't it, that this interview will air on TV 
> just as Lying Fuck Freeh is pushing for mandatory GAK to 'protect' us
> from imaginary nuclear terrorists with suitcase bombs? I bet it's 
> just one of them coincidences...
> 
> SynchronicityMonger

Lying Nazi Ratfucker Freeh has known about these allegations for a long
time, but it seems that it was not much of a threat until the release
of the book by his co-conspirator schill, the Russian General.
Isn't it amazing how long-standing threats to National Security only
become _real_ threats when it is convenient for those in power?

It was only a 'coincidence' that I happened to be standing in that bank
that had been broken into, with a handful of cash.

SynchronicityCriminal







From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Sun Sep  7 23:22:05 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:22:05 +0800
Subject: FUCK! how do i unregister from toad.com or the 2 other server ?%
Message-ID: <199709080606.IAA15081@basement.replay.com>



Cypherpunks Chief Spokesperson Martin M wrote:
> 
> I am tired, i am registered to 3 cypherpunks server and tired or receiving
> 40-50 new message each day!
> 
> Please someone reply!

Martin,
 If you are retiring as Cypherpunks Chief Spokesperson then I guess
we will have to hold a new election. Do you have anyone in mind as
your replacement?

A Registered Cypherpunk Voter







From stewarts at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep  7 23:38:28 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:38:28 +0800
Subject: Redhat crypto archive on replay
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970906022308.006b6d14@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970907230204.006ba074@popd.ix.netcom.com>



I forget where I saw the below message announcing stext for Linux,
but there is a nice collection of crypto packages at
http://www.replay.com/redhat .
Unfortunately, they're in RedHat Package Manager format,
so they may be a shade difficult to use for non-Redhat users,
but Redhat does seem to be a fairly popular Linux flavor.

>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Hans Zoebelein 
>To: redhat-announce-list at redhat.com
>Subject: stext-1.0 stegano crypto package uploaded
>Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1997 03:28:09 -0000
>
>Hi, 
>
>there is a nice crypto rpm, which uses steganograpic techniques
>to hide a file in another text file which looks like normal text.
>
>The packages are stext-1.0-1.i386.rpm and stext-1.01.src.rpm 
>Binary and source should be dloadable from 
>
>http://www.replay.com/redhat 
>
>the next days. Or check ftp.replay.com/pub/crypto/linux/redhat.
>This package might be useful to handle crypted files in countries,
>where authorities love their citizens so much, that they want to 
>know everything about them and have forbidden strong crypto 
>(Hello China, Bon Jour France :)
>
>Enjoy!
>Hans
>
>Hans Zoebelein              * You are interested in Linux blind support?
>zocki at goldfish.cube.net     * Join the blinux mailing list and mail to:
>"Please enter my parlor!"   * blinux-list-request at redhat.com
> said the spider to the fly.* with subject line: subscribe
>
>
>






From bd1011 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  8 00:46:46 1997
From: bd1011 at hotmail.com (Nobuki Nakatuji)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:46:46 +0800
Subject: Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm
Message-ID: <19970908071919.4105.qmail@hotmail.com>



Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm

1.key input
2.input key generate chaos initial condition
3.input key generate chaos signal(random number)
4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal
  XOR plain text



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au  Mon Sep  8 01:55:24 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:55:24 +0800
Subject: Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm
In-Reply-To: <19970908071919.4105.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 



On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:

> Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm

[...]

> 4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal
>   XOR plain text

Wouldn't it be a good idear to use some sort of feed back method?

-- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett






From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu  Mon Sep  8 02:07:40 1997
From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (Damaged Justice)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:07:40 +0800
Subject: Miscellaneous Debris
Message-ID: <199709080856.EAA15266@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>




Our old pinko buddy Vigdor Schriebman is the latest to attack Old Media's
definitions of "journalist" at

http://www.MediaINFO.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stories/090597n3.htm


Another self-contradicting bunch of viewpoints on net.telephony at

http://192.215.107.71/wire/news/1997/09/0905telco.html


New technology being put to old tricks as students plaigarize at

http://cnn.com/TECH/9709/07/illicit.papers/index.html


"The Internet Ushers In New Age Of Personal Diplomacy" at 

http://www.infotech.co.nz/current/ntchil.html
               
          "Individuals around the globe can reach a consensus and make
          contact with others despite the differing political views of
          their governments. They can become "personal ambassadors" for
          their countries."
                       

And the Infowarspooks are back for another round of "the Internet is so
important the government needs to do SOMETHING" at

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/info/090697/info7_3765_noframes.html


Enjoy! All of the above links courtesy of http://www.newslinx.com/

--
Tell your friends 'n neighbors you read this on the evil pornographic Internet
"Where one burns books, one will also burn people eventually." -Heinrich Heine
People and books aren't for burning. No more Alexandrias, Auschwitzs or Wacos.






From nobody at REPLAY.COM  Mon Sep  8 02:09:19 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:09:19 +0800
Subject: Suitcase for sale - $1,000,000
Message-ID: <199709080845.KAA01381@basement.replay.com>



Weight of suitcase: 80 lbs.

For details contact: toto at sk.sympatico.ca



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From asgaard at cor.sos.sll.se  Mon Sep  8 04:19:16 1997
From: asgaard at cor.sos.sll.se (Asgaard)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:19:16 +0800
Subject: FVG ??
Message-ID: 




http://www.fvg.com

In Santa Fe (?).

What kind of joke is that?

Is this what Java is for??


Asgaard






From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Sep  8 04:30:22 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:30:22 +0800
Subject: GAK Hits
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970908111028.00810a5c@pop.pipeline.com>



Blasts of the GAK plot, maybe genuine, more likely appeals
for be-quiet-honey NDA-money:

   http://jya.com/gak-news.txt







From dlv at bwalk.dm.com  Mon Sep  8 05:14:53 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:14:53 +0800
Subject: Online Casino - REAL MONEY!!
Message-ID: <6LLPce76w165w@bwalk.dm.com>



How kosher is this:

]Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:51:06 -0400 (EDT)
]From: mxzr2 at savetrees.com
]Subject: Online Casino - REAL MONEY!!
]Reply-To: mxzr2 at savetrees.com
]
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]
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]
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]
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]
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]
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]
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]
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]
]
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From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Sep  8 05:15:35 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:15:35 +0800
Subject: [LONG} Funding Cypherpunks Projects
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970908120000.00847990@pop.pipeline.com>



Tim and Bob's exchanges are quite informative, and may
their disagreements flower, for, as the solon said, the truth
comes out by hammer blows, not sweettalk.

I'd cite today's NYT article on brokers who find lucrative work
for programmers. The firm featured today is based
in Tim's area, Los Gatos.

The article describes the change in programmers' status
from talented, dutiful employees -- a small few of whom get
a big payoff with stock options, though most don't -- to 
free-lancers getting large fees for short-time work, up to
$200/hr and $300,000 per year. Not that all do so well.

It's a nice change from stories about the legal-financial
fairy tales about tough-minded start-ups and skeptical
VCs who never seem to actually risk nearly as much as 
those peddling all-they've-got codemaking talent.

Still, the talent-brokers, what do they do that the money
guys don't do better, except perhaps lay on the poor-baby, 
let me help you screw yourself on my behalf, thicker,
like all cream-skimmers and honey-pot raiders?







From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Sep  8 05:40:11 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:40:11 +0800
Subject: http:--cnnfn.com-digitaljam-9709-08-compuserve-
Message-ID: <199709081244.HAA01368@einstein.ssz.com>



   
   
   More privacy and security with QUALCOMM's CDMA digital wireless
   phones. CLICK HERE [INLINE] Deals CompuServe 
   CompuServe, AOL in deal
   
   
   WorldCom buys CompuServe for $1.2 billion, to flip part to AOL
   
   
   September 8, 1997: 7:29 a.m. ET
   
   
   [LINK] 
   [INLINE] 
   
   
   CompuServe cuts losses - August 20, 1997
   
   CompuServe tests flat rate - July 21, 1997
   
   
   [IMAGE]
   
   CompuServe
   
   America Online
   Infoseek search 
   __________
   ____  ____
   NEW YORK (CNNfn) - H&R Block said Monday it will sell its 80 percent
   stake in CompuServe to WorldCom Inc. for about $1.2 billion in a
   complex deal which will ultimately turn over CompuServe's content and
   subscribers to America Online.
   [INLINE] Under the deal, CompuServe shareholders, including H&R Block,
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   [INLINE] After that deal is completed, WorldCom will turn around and
   give AOL all the CompuServe content assets and subscribers plus $175
   million in exchange for AOL's Advanced Networks and Services division,
   which supplies about one-third of the network capacity for AOL's own
   customers.
   [INLINE] The deal will add CompuServe's approximately 5 million home
   and business subscribers to AOL's pool of about 8 million customers.
   AOL is the world's largest online service provider.
   [INLINE] WorldCom, a business telecommunications company based in
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   such as intranets.
   [INLINE] The deal ends AOL's long journey toward acquiring its online
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   [INLINE] The deal will now face regulatory review and could possibly
   trigger concerns over AOL's largely increased market share. Link to
   top 
   -- Randy Schultz
   
   
   
   home | deals | hot stories | contents | search | stock quotes | help
   
   Copyright © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc.
   ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.






From ravage at ssz.com  Mon Sep  8 05:40:14 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:40:14 +0800
Subject: EMP & Cars (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709081240.HAA01326@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:48:08 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ray Arachelian 
> Subject: EMP & Cars (fwd)

> There has been quite an interest in EMP.

> pulses to a near miss lightning strike. As far as vehicle disabling, There
> are claims that auto manufactures have built in a shut down frequency into
> the computers in certain vehicles. We wound a large coil on a carpet paper
> tube and put an oscillator on it and it would flood a vehicles electrical
> system to shut it down, but it was huge.

Mind being a little more specific?...

 -  What was the dimension of the coil you used?

 -  What was the frequency and amplitude of your signal?

 -  What model of car and it's computer did you test?

 -  What was the orientation and position of the coil when it worked
    and when it didn't?

> The easiest way to learn about
> EMP is to find the International TESLA society web site and interpret the
> information there.

Some of the best sources are ECM & EECM texts/sites.

While it is a good source of technical info it does take a bull-shit
detector set to full to sift through all the other detritis the ITS wallows
in. Space aliens, hollow earth, over-unity power, etc.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |    The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there   |
   |    be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       -Alan Greenspan-             |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http:// www.ssz.com/  |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage at ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Mon Sep  8 20:58:43 1997
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Infoworld and Denning's study
Message-ID: <87377748221122@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>


 
>Infoworld NZ has just published an awful article (written by US reporter Sari 
>Kalin and titled "Criminals Eyeing Encryption"), which emphasises repeatedly 
>that encryption is a major problem just waiting to happen, using Dorothy 
>Dennings report as a basis.  This represents a rather ugly way to interpret 
>the report (and, presumably, an attempt by the USG to recover something from 
>a report which was supposed to come down firmly in favour of crypto 
>restrictions but didn't).  
 
Due to the late hour I got that wrong, it's Computerworld NZ, not Infoworld 
(slight difference in naming).  Even later last night I wrote a letter to the 
editor which, I gather, will appear in the next issue.  I've included it below 
in case anyone finds it useful, it's written for a general audience who 
probably aren't aware of the deeper issues apart from the fact that the USG 
has a peculiar attitude towards crypto, due to length constraints I couldn't 
go into too much detail.  If you feel the need to circulate this, please don't 
do so until after next Monday when it's officially published.
 
Peter.
 
-- Snip --
 
The article "Crims eyeing encryption" in the September 9 Computerworld 
presents an extremely peculiar view of the study "Encryption and Evolving 
Technologies in Organised Crime and Terrorism".  The final conclusion of the 
study was that there is no real "encryption problem" which justifies placing 
limitations on the use of encryption, and yet the article, by more or less 
ignoring the conclusion and concentrating instead on a number of 
scaremongering quotes, manages to create exactly the opposite impression.  To 
understand what's involved here, it might be useful to know a bit about the 
background of the study.
 
For a number of years the US government has held that it needs to strongly 
restrict peoples access to encryption.  They can't actually provide you with 
any supporting facts for this because they're all classified, but if they were 
allowed to tell you, they're certain you'd agree with them.  Now over the 
years they came to the realisation that people weren't really buying this 
argument, and so they decided to create a study which would provide proof, 
once and for all, that they were right.  The two people who worked on this 
study were Dorothy Denning, virtually the only supporter of the US governments 
policy apart from the US government itself, and a vice-president of SAIC, a 
large defence contractor.
 
They toiled away for quite some time, and finally announced their results a 
month or two back.  Unfortunately the findings put them in a rather awkward 
position: Although the study was supposed to provide proof that there was some 
sort of "encryption problem" which needed to be countered, it instead showed 
that there wasn't really a problem at all.  Sure, it showed that criminals 
occasionally use encryption, just like criminals also drive cars, eat pizza, 
drink Coke, and (quite probably) read Computerworld.  The important point - 
which was almost completely ignored in the article in favour of running 
scaremongering quotes from a variety of US government officials - was that 
the "encryption problem", the whole reason for the governments' claimed need 
to restrict encryption, by and large didn't exist.
 
It got even worse for the government though.  So convincing was the evidence 
in the study that Denning - for years a very outspoken supporter of their 
policies - did an about-face and declared that she was no longer prepared to 
back government plans for restricting encryption until someone proved to her 
that there was a very good reason for it (this was reported in a number of US 
papers and publications which cover computer issues, so it was reasonably well 
known, eg "Denning unable to confirm FBI Assertions; alters her position" in 
the Mercury News, the largest silicon valley paper).  Although the governments 
star technical witness was unable to find any evidence that their position was 
valid, the Computerworld article, by resorting to selective quoting and 
innuendo, paints a very different, and quite inaccurate, picture.
 
(As a side-note, I find it amusing to read that the government policy relies 
on people handing over their encryption keys to them.  Quite apart from the 
question of why anyone would trust the US government with their keys, there's 
also the small problem that no criminal will ever do this - that's why they're 
criminals after all.  The only ones who'll ever get caught by this cunning 
plan are you and I).
 
-- Snip --
 
(I'm assuming most readers will get the Baldrick/Blackadder reference in the 
last sentence :-).
 






From sparky12 at earthlink.net  Mon Sep  8 06:12:23 1997
From: sparky12 at earthlink.net (Allan Thompson)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:12:23 +0800
Subject: FUCK! how do i unregister from toad.com or the 2 other server ?%
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970908090402.0068ced4@earthlink.net>




are you tired ? 

>I am tired, i am registered to 3 cypherpunks server and tired or receiving
>40-50 new message each day!
>
>Please someone reply!
>
>Martin
>mgmicro at usa.net 
>
>
>

**************************************************
"The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics."
--Bukowski
***************************************************






From trei at process.com  Mon Sep  8 07:04:34 1997
From: trei at process.com (Peter Trei)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:04:34 +0800
Subject: Big Brother is watching you watch Farenheit 451
Message-ID: <199709081352.GAA17432@toad.com>



Bill Stewart  wrote:

> At 08:47 AM 9/4/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
> >in the process of rereading "Fahrenheit 451" - the recent printing  of 
> >this in paperback features a Marquis that says somethig like "Now, more 
> >relevant than ever" - as much as I hate having someone else tell me what 
> >to think ... they certainly seem to be right. It has been over twenty 
> 
> BTW, the last copy of F451 I saw really irked me - the cover had
> explanatory notes like "Fahrenheit 451, the temperature that books burn!"
> and stuff about firemen whose job is setting fires.  
> Are today's kids dumbing down, or less literate, or is it just enough
> longer since the book was written that publishers need to try harder to 
> get people to read it?

Any day, I expect to hear that The State has mandated that all first
editions of F451 be confiscated and landfilled. 

Why? Whatever the true motives, the one they will cite is 
"public safety": the first (hardback) edition is bound in asbestos.

trei at process.com






From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Sep  8 07:06:21 1997
From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:06:21 +0800
Subject: List of reliable remailers
Message-ID: <199709081350.GAA06879@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu>



   I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed
information about remailer features and reliability.

   To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

   There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of
interesting links to remailer-related resources, at:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html

   This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP
encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see:
http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html

   For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger
pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

This is the current info:

                                 REMAILER LIST

   This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first
   part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration
   options and special features for each of the remailers. The second
   part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each
   remailer. You can also get this list by fingering
   remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu.

$remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp';
$remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?";
$remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek";
$remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek";
$remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?";
$remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?";
$remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post";
$remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?";
$remailer{"lcs"} = " mix";
$remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle"
$remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle";
$remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek";
catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer.
lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer.
usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer.
remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer.

There is no remailer at relay.com.

Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator:
(cyber mix reno winsock)
(weasel squirrel medusa)
(cracker redneck)
(nym lcs)
(valdeez arrid hera)

The remailer list here has been out of date for some time, but should
be up to date now. I'm still working on updating the web page.

Last update: Mon 8 Sep 97 6:48:45 PDT
remailer  email address                        history  latency  uptime
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
nym      config at nym.alias.net              ####**+#-##     7:03  99.95%
hera     goddesshera at juno.com             ----_.---..  14:56:18  99.95%
cyber    alias at alias.cyberpass.net        *+*****++**+    11:30  99.93%
squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de              -----------   3:17:57  99.83%
valdeez  valdeez at juno.com                 -__.-*+*-.-   7:50:19  99.81%
winsock  winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net      -----_..---* 10:10:24  99.81%
bureau42 remailer at bureau42.ml.org         ..---------   3:33:37  99.31%
arrid    arrid at juno.com                   -- --------   7:27:32  99.15%
neva     remailer at neva.org                -+*#+*--*  #    25:21  98.45%
jam      remailer at cypherpunks.ca          +    ++++++     39:06  97.23%
cracker  remailer at anon.efga.org           +    +++ +++    28:43  97.10%
replay   remailer at replay.com               +**-++  +**     9:49  96.75%
redneck  config at anon.efga.org                 -*+* ++#    10:58  96.60%
reno     middleman at cyberpass.net          ++..+ *  --   2:32:31  84.34%
mix      mixmaster at remail.obscura.com     **+*++*+      1:14:29  58.44%

   History key
     * # response in less than 5 minutes.
     * * response in less than 1 hour.
     * + response in less than 4 hours.
     * - response in less than 24 hours.
     * . response in more than 1 day.
     * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days).

   cpunk
          A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To:
          field.
          
   eric
          A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead.
          
   penet
          The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses
          X-Anon-To: in the header.
          
   pgp
          Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the
          keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email
          address, should be used as the encryption key ID.
          
   hash
          Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of
          outgoing messages.
          
   ksub
          Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode.
          
   nsub
          Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode.
          
   latent
          Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option.
          
   cut
          Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option.
          
   post
          Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header.
          
   ek
          Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header.
          
   special
          Accepts only pgp encrypted messages.
          
   mix
          Can accept messages in Mixmaster format.
          
   reord
          Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note:
          I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and
          haven't verified the reord info myself.

   mon
          Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email.
          
   filter
          Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If
          not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined
          for public forums are subject to filtering.
          

Raph Levien






From trei at process.com  Mon Sep  8 08:13:28 1997
From: trei at process.com (Peter Trei)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:13:28 +0800
Subject: EMP & Cars (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709081501.KAA01649@einstein.ssz.com>



> From:          Jim Choate 

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:48:08 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Ray Arachelian 
> > Subject: EMP & Cars (fwd)
> 
> > There has been quite an interest in EMP.
> 
> > pulses to a near miss lightning strike. As far as vehicle disabling, There
> > are claims that auto manufactures have built in a shut down frequency into
> > the computers in certain vehicles. We wound a large coil on a carpet paper
> > tube and put an oscillator on it and it would flood a vehicles electrical
> > system to shut it down, but it was huge.
> 
> Mind being a little more specific?...

[...]

> > The easiest way to learn about
> > EMP is to find the International TESLA society web site and interpret the
> > information there.
> 
> Some of the best sources are ECM & EECM texts/sites.
> 
> While it is a good source of technical info it does take a bull-shit
> detector set to full to sift through all the other detritis the ITS wallows
> in. Space aliens, hollow earth, over-unity power, etc.

Ham radio operators have been dealing with this issue for years. 
There's a lot of (mostly anectodotal) stories of mobile operators
keying up their rigs and having either their own or neighbouring
cars misfiring or dieing. Shielded ignition cables seem to fix 
things (though they are actually bought to prevent ignition noise 
from getting into the radio, not the other way around).

Ham operators can use *much* more powerful transmitters than CB or
cell phones - my own transceiver puts out 50 watts, but some go a 
lot higher.

It's fairly common for hams to 'test' a prospective car purchase by 
waving an HT over the engine while transmitting, to see if it has a 
problem.

I suspect that it would be quite possible to build an EMP gun to 
kill most running cars, but it would also kill anyone with a
pacemaker.

I'm more worried about the current trend towards placing remotely
controlled electronics in cars. Already, one US manufacturer offers
as an option a satellite reciever which (among other things) can
unlock the car remotely if you lock it in the car accidentally. I 
have no idea how much authentication is required for such a request,
but I'm sure car theives are looking into it. To defend against
this, I expect next years model will also allow the car to be
turned off by remote control, or turn on a tracking device.

The popular 'Lojak' car tracking system has similar civil liberties 
issues. I understand that the car owner has no control over it's
activation, can't disable it, and there is no indication that it is
in operation.Apparently all the "authorities" need to turn it on 
is the VIN.

Peter Trei
N1MNV






From remailer at bureau42.ml.org  Mon Sep  8 08:33:17 1997
From: remailer at bureau42.ml.org (bureau42 Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:33:17 +0800
Subject: Prayer to A.M. Turing
Message-ID: <3gDm3/KXXobGiEuuujWoNQ==@bureau42.ml.org>



Adam Back wrote:
>Monty Cantain writes:
>> Oh Lord Turing, God of Messages and Pathways, please reduce the
>> latency time of the remailer network!  Please accept this humble
>> offering: 10110AlanMathisonTuring8ef2b1912670b51
>
>Your email to Lord Turing may bounce, your hashcash postage doesn't
>collide:
>
>% ashcash AlanMathisonTuring 10110AlanMathisonTuring8ef2b1912670b51
>collision: 0 bits
>%

Add an "f".

AMT








From jseiger at cdt.org  Mon Sep  8 09:17:25 1997
From: jseiger at cdt.org (Jonah Seiger)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:17:25 +0800
Subject: CDT Policy Post 3.13 - New FBI Crypto Bill To Force Key Recovery
Message-ID: 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    _____ _____ _______
   / ____|  __ \__   __|   ____        ___               ____             __
  | |    | |  | | | |     / __ \____  / (_)______  __   / __ \____  _____/ /_
  | |    | |  | | | |    / /_/ / __ \/ / / ___/ / / /  / /_/ / __ \/ ___/ __/
  | |____| |__| | | |   / ____/ /_/ / / / /__/ /_/ /  / ____/ /_/ (__  ) /_
   \_____|_____/  |_|  /_/    \____/_/_/\___/\__, /  /_/    \____/____/\__/
   The Center for Democracy and Technology  /____/     Volume 3, Number 13
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      A briefing on public policy issues affecting civil liberties online
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 CDT POLICY POST Volume 3, Number 13                    September 8, 1997

 CONTENTS: (1) New FBI Draft Crypto Bill Would Force Mandatory Key Recovery
           (2) Text of FBI Proposal
           (3) What You Can Do
           (4) How to Subscribe/Unsubscribe
           (5) About CDT, contacting us

  ** This document may be redistributed freely with this banner intact **
        Excerpts may be re-posted with permission of 
         ** This document looks best when viewed in COURIER font **
_____________________________________________________________________________

(1) NEW FBI DRAFT ENCRYPTION LEGISLATION WOULD IMPOSE MANDATORY KEY RECOVERY

In its most audacious crypto proposal yet, the FBI is circulating on
Capitol Hill legislation to impose full domestic controls on the
manufacture and use of encryption.  The FBI is seeking support for its
proposal among two crucial House Committees preparing to consider
encryption legislation this week.

The text of the key section of the FBI draft is attached below.

The FBI draft would take two extraordinary steps. It would prohibit the
manufacture, sale, import or distribution within the United States of any
encryption product unless it contains a feature that would create a spare
key or some other trap door allowing "immediate" decryption of any user's
messages or files without the user's knowledge.

In addition, it would require all network service providers that offer
encryption products or services to their customers to ensure that all
messages using such encryption can be immediately decrypted without the
knowledge of the customer.  This would apply to telephone companies and to
online service providers such as America Online and Prodigy.

In the FBI draft, the "key recovery capability" could be activated by the
purchaser or end user.  But requiring that such a capability be installed
in all domestic communications networks and encryption products would be
the critical step in enabling a national surveillance infrastructure.

The proposal requires the Attorney General to set standards for what are
and are not acceptable encryption products. The proposal's requirement of
"immediate" decryption would seem to seriously limit the options available
to encryption manufacturers seeking approval of their products.

While export of encryption products from the United States has long been
restricted, there have never been controls on the manufacture,
distribution, or use of encryption within the United States.

Pending before the House Intelligence and National Security Committees is
the Security and Freedom through Encryption Act (SAFE, HR 695), sponsored
by Rep. Goodlatte (R-VA), which would lift current export controls on
encryption technology. The Goodlatte bill has already been reported
favorably by the House Judiciary and International Relations Committees.
The House National Security Committee is scheduled to consider HR 695 on
Tuesday, September 9. The House Intelligence Committee has scheduled its
vote for September 11. Members of both committees are expected to consider
the FBI draft as a substitute to the SAFE bill.

This FBI proposal represents a major turn-around for the Clinton
Administration, which has denied since its first year that it was seeking
domestic controls on encryption.

The FBI proposal is an attempted end run around the Constitution.  By
creating an avenue for immediate access to sensitive decryption keys
without the knowledge of the user, the proposal denies users the notice
that is a central element of the Fourth Amendment protection against
unreasonable searches and seizures.  Just this past April, the Supreme
Court reaffirmed that the Fourth Amendment normally requires the government
to advise the target of a search and seizure that the search is being
conducted.

Forcing U.S. citizens and companies to adopt so-called key recovery systems
poses serious security risks, especially when the systems can be accessed
without the knowledge of the users.  A recent study by 11 cryptography and
computer security experts concluded that such key recovery systems would be
costly and ultimately insecure (see http://www.crypto.com/key_study)

CDT executive director Jerry Berman said of the latest proposal, "This is
not the first step towards the surveillance society. It *is* the
surveillance society."

______________________________________________________________________________

(2) TEXT OF MANDATORY KEY RECOVERY SECTION OF FBI DRAFT LEGISLATION
    (From FBI "Technical Assistance Draft" Dated August 28, 1997)

SEC. 105. PUBLIC ENCRYPTION PRODUCTS AND SERVICES

(a)    As of January 1, 1999, public network service providers offering
encryption products or encryption services shall ensure that such products
or services enable the immediate decryption of communications or electronic
information encrypted by such products or services on the public network,
upon receipt of a court order, warrant, or certification, pursuant to
section 106, without the knowledge or cooperation of the person using such
encryption products or services.

(b)    As of January 1, 1999, it shall be unlawful for any person to
manufacture for sale or distribution within the U.S., distribute within the
U.S., sell within the U.S., or import into the U.S. any product that can be
used to encrypt communications or electronic information, unless that
product -

       (1) includes features, such as key recovery, trusted third party
       compatibility or other means, that

           (A) permit immediate decryption upon receipt of decryption
           information by an authorized party without the knowledge or
           cooperation of the person using such encryption product; and

           (B) is either enabled at the time of manufacture, distribution,
           sale, or import, or may be enabled by the purchaser or end user; or

       (2) can be used only on systems or networks that include features, such
       as key recovery, trusted third party compatibility or other means, that
       permit immediate decryption by an authorized party without the knowledge
       or cooperation of the person using such encryption product.

(c)  (1) Within 180 days of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General
     shall publish in the Federal Register functional criteria for complying
     with the decryption requirements set forth in this section.

     (2) Within 180 days of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General
     shall promulgate procedures by which data network service providers and
     encryption product manufacturers, sellers, re-sellers, distributors, and
     importers may obtain advisory opinions as to whether a decryption method
     will meet the requirements of this section.

     (3) Nothing in this Act or any other law shall be construed as requiring
     the implementation of any particular decryption method in order to satisfy
     the requirements of paragraphs (a) or (b) of this section.

______________________________________________________________________________

(3) WHAT YOU CAN I DO TO HELP?

Are you concerned about protecting privacy and security in the information
age? Curious what your Member of Congress thinks about the issue?

  Adopt Your Legislator! Visit http://www.crypto.com/adopt for details

You will recieve customized alerts with news you can use, inlcuding the
latest information on internet-related issues, the views of your
Representative and Senators, and contact information to help you ensure
your voice is heard in the ongoing debate over the future of the
Information Age.

Visit http://www.cdt.org/crypto or http://www.crypto.com/ for detailed
background information on the encryption policy reform debate, including
the text of various legislative proposals, analysis, and other information.

_____________________________________________________________________________

(4) SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION

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civil liberties online and how they will affect you! Subscribe to the CDT
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_____________________________________________________________________________

(5) ABOUT THE CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY/CONTACTING US

The Center for Democracy and Technology is a non-profit public interest
organization based in Washington, DC. The Center's mission is to develop
and advocate public policies that advance democratic values and
constitutional civil liberties in new computer and communications
technologies.

Contacting us:

General information:  info at cdt.org
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Policy Post 3.13                                               09/08/97
----------------------------------------------------------------------------







From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Sep  8 09:37:21 1997
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:37:21 +0800
Subject: FCPUNX:Show Me the Warheads!
Message-ID: <199709081619.JAA20847@proxy3.ba.best.com>



At 9:03 PM -0700 9/4/97, Mike Duvos wrote:
>>In an interview to be aired on "60 Minutes" this Sunday, Alexandr
>>Lebed, former Russian National Security Advisor, will reveal that
>>his country has lost track of more than 100 nuclear bombs made to
>>look like suitcases, and has no idea what happened to them.

At 10:13 PM 9/4/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
> Stay away from soft targets (Tel Aviv, Haifa, the ZOG section of Jerusalem,
> New York, Washington, and so on--Harbors (e.g., Haifa, NYC) are pretty
> likely targets, due to the extreme ease of delivery). But also be prepared
> for major disruptions and panic even if you are nowhere near the blast.

Relax:   Anyone who can afford nukes, probably won't use them without
very good reason.

By the way, I have noticed that the Israelis have lately taken a considerably
more conciliatory attitude towards non state entitities.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              				|  
We have the right to defend ourselves	|   http://www.jim.com/jamesd/
and our property, because of the kind	|  
of animals that we are. True law	|   James A. Donald
derives from this right, not from the	|  
arbitrary power of the state.		|   jamesd at echeque.com






From rich at paranoid.org  Mon Sep  8 10:37:23 1997
From: rich at paranoid.org (Rich Burroughs)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:37:23 +0800
Subject: Redhat crypto archive on replay
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970907230204.006ba074@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 



There are some good tools there.

You don't have to have RedHat to use rpm packages -- it will work with
other Linux distributions.  Rpm is available at:

ftp://ftp.rpm.org/pub/rpm/dist/latest/



Rich


On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Bill Stewart wrote:

> 
> I forget where I saw the below message announcing stext for Linux,
> but there is a nice collection of crypto packages at
> http://www.replay.com/redhat .
> Unfortunately, they're in RedHat Package Manager format,
> so they may be a shade difficult to use for non-Redhat users,
> but Redhat does seem to be a fairly popular Linux flavor.
> 
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: Hans Zoebelein 
> >To: redhat-announce-list at redhat.com
> >Subject: stext-1.0 stegano crypto package uploaded
> >Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1997 03:28:09 -0000
> >
> >Hi, 
> >
> >there is a nice crypto rpm, which uses steganograpic techniques
> >to hide a file in another text file which looks like normal text.
> >
> >The packages are stext-1.0-1.i386.rpm and stext-1.01.src.rpm 
> >Binary and source should be dloadable from 
> >
> >http://www.replay.com/redhat 
> >
> >the next days. Or check ftp.replay.com/pub/crypto/linux/redhat.
> >This package might be useful to handle crypted files in countries,
> >where authorities love their citizens so much, that they want to 
> >know everything about them and have forbidden strong crypto 
> >(Hello China, Bon Jour France :)
> >
> >Enjoy!
> >Hans
> >
> >Hans Zoebelein              * You are interested in Linux blind support?
> >zocki at goldfish.cube.net     * Join the blinux mailing list and mail to:
> >"Please enter my parlor!"   * blinux-list-request at redhat.com
> > said the spider to the fly.* with subject line: subscribe
> >
> >
> >
> 






From tcmay at got.net  Mon Sep  8 10:40:17 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:40:17 +0800
Subject: Nuclear Hedge Funds
In-Reply-To: <199709081619.JAA20847@proxy3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: 



At 9:19 AM -0700 9/8/97, James A. Donald wrote:

>At 10:13 PM 9/4/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>> Stay away from soft targets (Tel Aviv, Haifa, the ZOG section of Jerusalem,
>> New York, Washington, and so on--Harbors (e.g., Haifa, NYC) are pretty
>> likely targets, due to the extreme ease of delivery). But also be prepared
>> for major disruptions and panic even if you are nowhere near the blast.
>
>Relax:   Anyone who can afford nukes, probably won't use them without
>very good reason.
>
>By the way, I have noticed that the Israelis have lately taken a considerably
>more conciliatory attitude towards non state entitities.

The targets may not even be political.

Imagine the profits to be made by shorting a bunch of high tech, networking
stocks and then detonating a package near the major NAPs clustered in
Silicon Valley? Not to mention the direct effects and the panic effects on
Intel, Sun, Netscape, Apple, Cisco, 3COM, and a hundred other such
companies.

Conventional explosives could knock out MAE-West or any other single NAP,
but even a low-yield nuke would trigger the panic, fallout, and temporary
abandonment of facilities. Cisco and Intel would be massively disrupted for
at least several months, and might not recover for years....

(Conventional explosives could also cause a billion or more dollars worth
of damage to a major wafer fabrication plant, of course, but the
manufacturing capacity could be shifted to other plants in a matter of
months. Some major short sale opportunities, but not nearly what a nuke
could do to a _region_, in terms of direct blast effects, fallout in
surrounding city blocks (tens of square city blocks, at the least, esp.
give OSHA standards, etc.), and the sheer panic effect.)

Similar effects would be felt if a suitcase nuke were detonated in Chicago
near the futures/options markets, in Nuke York City in almost any of the
locations, in the City of London, and so on. The best target for such a
suitcase nuke would require careful planning.

(Very speculatively, a terrorist group might actually gain more by hitting
a financial or high tech center, and multiplying their assets by factors of
hundreds or thousands, thus allowing them to gain more conventional
leverage. Of course, their sudden new wealth would make them the suspects
in such a bombing.)

By carefully using cutouts for the short positions (lawyers in distributed
countries, for example), and by buying puts (huge leverage, of course), the
risks to an "investment group" could be minimal.

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: This is not investement advice. I am not a Certified
Nuclear Hedging Advisor, and my knowledge of the effects of nuclear weapons
on financial markets is based on speculation. In other words, your
megatonnage may vary.

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."









From azur at netcom.com  Mon Sep  8 11:38:01 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:38:01 +0800
Subject: EMP & Cars (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199709081501.KAA01649@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 



>The popular 'Lojak' car tracking system has similar civil liberties
>issues. I understand that the car owner has no control over it's
>activation, can't disable it, and there is no indication that it is
>in operation.Apparently all the "authorities" need to turn it on
>is the VIN.

Lojak, like  uses a pager frequency to activate the transponder.  It is
easy and inexpensive to build a low-power de-activating transmitter,
operated in or near the car, to jam the pager receiver and prevent the
unit's operation.

--Steve

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html
RSA PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61  81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear (N7ZEZ)     | Internet: azur at netcom.com
7075 West Gowan Road     | Voice: 1-702-658-2654
Suite 2148               | Fax: 1-702-658-2673
Las Vegas, NV 89129      | economic and crypto dissident
---------------------------------------------------------------------

	The push by western governments for financial transparency and
	banning unrestricted use of cryptography is blatent politicial
	tyranny.

	Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell







From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com  Mon Sep  8 12:43:04 1997
From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mix)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:43:04 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199709081905.MAA13763@sirius.infonex.com>



Jesus had 3 nipples.


(this has been proven to be true)






From eb at comsec.com  Mon Sep  8 12:51:36 1997
From: eb at comsec.com (Eric Blossom)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:51:36 +0800
Subject: Nuclear Hedge Funds
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709081923.MAA22662@comsec.com>



> 
> (Conventional explosives could also cause a billion or more dollars worth
> of damage to a major wafer fabrication plant, of course, but the
> manufacturing capacity could be shifted to other plants in a matter of
> months. Some major short sale opportunities, but not nearly what a nuke
> could do to a _region_, in terms of direct blast effects, fallout in
> surrounding city blocks (tens of square city blocks, at the least, esp.
> give OSHA standards, etc.), and the sheer panic effect.)
> 

On of my favorite analyses of a similar scenario is contained in "The
Curve of Binding Energy" by John McPhee (available at your local
Borders or Barnes and Noble).  He basically interviews a high energy
physicist and works out the back of the envelope calculations on
yields, where to get the plutonium, where and how to place the device,
etc.  A key point was that a high efficiency device is not required.  
A dirty 1.5 kiloton gadget placed on the 40th floor of the World Trade
Center takes out one tower and kills a shit load of folks in the
adjacent tower.  Includes other rules of thumb such as "one kiloton of
explosives vaporizes one kiloton of matter".  YMMV, don't try this at
home kids, etc, etc.






From vznuri at netcom.com  Mon Sep  8 13:14:02 1997
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 04:14:02 +0800
Subject: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), was Democracy is the true enemy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199709081954.MAA02751@netcom13.netcom.com>




FYI, SS is quoting from a new book that I have mentioned on this
list on a prior date.


>Our elections are corrupted by bribery - not the big money paid to
>candidates by corporate donors, but the taxpayers' money offered to voters
>by the candidates themselves.

our elections are also corrupted by the fact that voters are not
expending any significant effort to decide whom to vote for. they
watch tv, and if an advertisement pushes their buttons in the right
way, it affects their vote.

another possibility in reforming our system is changing it away
from a *republic* in which we elect senators and representatives
to a true democracy. it is easier to bribe politicians than it
is to bribe the public in my opinion. in fact, that's what we
need, someone that bribes the public-at-large instead of smaller
constituencies to get elected. a single senator can be bribed,
but bribing the entire population is like ultimately serving them.

consider that products sold for less money are in a way a kind
of "bribe" on the public. (a coarse word to use here). but the
products are trying to buy favoritism. I propose this is mostly
a problem only when they are appealing to narrow audiences.
for example, a bill that supports only timber cutters is a 
small constituency, susceptible to bribery. a bill that benefits
the entire nation is contrary to this.

>The darkest warnings of democracy's critics are being furfilled, precisely
>because of entitlement programs that already exist, which are driving the
>federal government into an abyss of debt.  Touching the big entitlement
>programs - the ones available to the middle class - is "political suicide."
>The president exploits this fact when he plays chicken with Republicans who
>want to reform those programs. All of which shows that we really know that
>democracy's critics were right. Too many voters are already bought - not by
>corporate campaign donors, but by the government itself. Worst of all, we
>accept this as normal, healthy politics even as it threatens to ruin us.

the public needs to eventually learn that for every dollar they send
to washington, they get only a fraction back, no matter how lucrative
their own pork. the problem with our
politics is that voters have not realized that they are almost always
cheating themselves when they try to cheat their neighbors. it's a shell
game that they keep playing as long as they think someone else is paying.

I don't believe there are intrinsic flaws in democracy, so much as
there are intrinsic flaws in *human*nature* that are coming to light
after decades. government is a reflection of our human natures.
one cannot really expect a government to correct the flaws of its
users, any more than software could do the same.






From hanne at squirrel.owl.de  Mon Sep  8 13:19:51 1997
From: hanne at squirrel.owl.de (Johannes Kroeger)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 04:19:51 +0800
Subject: Weasel nymserver closed due to child porn investigation
In-Reply-To: <19970907224816.29967@squirrel.owl.de>
Message-ID: <19970908205739.03652@squirrel.owl.de>

On 07 Sep 1997, I wrote:

> 3.  Mail to weasel.owl.de users will be remailed as usual, until I
> have transferred the accounts to another nymserver.  I would be very
> grateful if the admins of nym.alias.net or anon.efga.org are willing
> to host weasel's nyms until the investigations are closed and weasel
> is hopefully up again.

Andy Dustman, the operator of the redneck nymserver at anon.efga.org,
has now installed the weasel accounts on the EFGA server.  This means:

1. I don't have any data of pseudonymous users available anymore.

2. Mail to  will be forwarded to
 ("_w" for weasel).
        ^^
3.  Mail to {send,config}@weasel.owl.de bounces with the following,
now somewhat more detailed error message:

Sending mail from weasel.owl.de is disabled until further notice.  Please
read <19970907224816.29967 at squirrel.owl.de> in alt.privacy.anon-server for
more information.  The accounts have been moved to redneck (anon.efga.org):
 is now .

-- 
Johannes Kroeger		
Send mail with subject "send pgp-key" to get my PGP key

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From davewww at fastlane.net  Mon Sep  8 14:59:08 1997
From: davewww at fastlane.net (davewww)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 05:59:08 +0800
Subject: Info please
Message-ID: <199709082134.QAA13922@fastlane.net>



davewww at fastlane.net






From nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com  Mon Sep  8 15:31:38 1997
From: nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com (nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:31:38 +0800
Subject: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), was Democracy is the true enemy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <97Sep8.181602edt.32258@brickwall.ceddec.com>



On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Steve Schear wrote:

> Many, beginning with de Toquivelle, have noted that democracy brings with
> it the unhappy possibility of a tyranny of the majority.  The reasons for
> this shortcoming are closely tied to the decision of whom within the
> democracy receives the franchise and how in a representative democracy
> officeholders are elected.

I don't think it is so much of the franchise as to the problem of whoever
the enfranchised are voting themselves largess at the public trough (also
noting how few of the franchised actually exercise the right today).  If
no one would consider voting for subsidies, the country is safe.  As soon
as the first subsidy is passed, a mob will form to lobby for a similar one
to benefit them.  This will occur even if the enfranchised group is small
- absolute power corrupts absolutely, even when it is every citizen who
can wield it, or an oligarchy.

Moreover, property ownership does not make for any better selection except
that it is probable that one of your ancestors had to acquire wealth.
Then the property owners simply vote to prevent transfer of property or
some other means of freezing the franchise, and can still cause all the
problems of tyranny.

It would be preferable that everyone wanting to vote have to pass a test
which had as a major component the fate of all democracies that use
majority power to destroy minority rights and to vote themselves
subsidies.  At this point, the democratic right to commit societial
suicide at least becomes an informed decision.

Democracy is as tyrannical as any other system if rights aren't respected.
In those cases where limited government might have to make a decision
concerning all, and there is time to debate the issue, democracy (either
representative or direct) is the most just method.

> The darkest warnings of democracy's critics are being furfilled, precisely
> because of entitlement programs that already exist, which are driving the
> federal government into an abyss of debt.  Touching the big entitlement
> programs - the ones available to the middle class - is "political suicide."

You should finish the story (or is there a Part III coming out)...

Democracies bankrupt themselves because this voting of largess eventually
turns into a pyramid scheme that collapses when there is no one left
creating wealth, only those trying to redistribute it.  After wealth can
no longer be distributed, the attempt is made to transfer more power to
government (because they can't believe that the reason for the problem is
their own greed - it must be the Jews, Corporations, Immigrants, Right
Wing Radicals, Gold Hoarders - pick your favorite group). 

And we end up back with a tyranny - from a totalitarian democracy, to a
dictatorship when everything breaks down.

All it will take is one stock market crash (read: correction that restores
dividend yields and price-to-book values to historic normalcy) - and the
following recession to bankrupt the pay-as-you-go government (watch for
20%+ interest rates on government securities during a deflation!).  The
unemployed riot demanding something other than scrip and seinors refuse to
pay taxes unless their social security is in cash - volia, we have
marshall law.  Remember what Roosevelt got away with before the current
method of expressing displeasure - burning your city to the ground -
became popular.

Probably before the congress is through investigating the campaign
irregularities in the 1996 elections.

--- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com ---






From tm at dev.null  Mon Sep  8 15:31:42 1997
From: tm at dev.null (TruthMonger)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:31:42 +0800
Subject: Deja Vu / Re: Info please
In-Reply-To: <199709082134.QAA13922@fastlane.net>
Message-ID: <3414759D.3088@dev.null>



davewww wrote:
> 
> davewww at fastlane.net

Dont go swimming on a full stomach.






From nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com  Mon Sep  8 16:19:27 1997
From: nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com (nospam-seesignature at ceddec.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:19:27 +0800
Subject: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), was Democracy is the true enemy...
In-Reply-To: <199709081954.MAA02751@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <97Sep8.185450edt.32258@brickwall.ceddec.com>



On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> our elections are also corrupted by the fact that voters are not
> expending any significant effort to decide whom to vote for. they
> watch tv, and if an advertisement pushes their buttons in the right
> way, it affects their vote.

After the current elections, we ended up with a more complex tax code, a
new entitlement, more budget sophistry, increased spending, less
soverignity, etc.

Assuming a 50 member difference in the house either way (and a similar
proportion in the Senate, or Beltway Bob instead of Beltway Bill), would
any of these things be substantially different?

And those that expended effort in things like ballot initiatives only saw
them overturned by the courts.

I can expend all the effort I want, but nothing will change.  Most people
have figured this out and don't bother voting.  The ones who do vote
simply vote for the one who promises them the most visible subsidy since
for little effort, they might get a benefit.

The corruption derives exclusively from the ability of government to
redistribute wealth.  As soon as it does this to any degree, the logical
thing to expend effort on is getting a greater share of the transfer.

If I vote to deny myself, everyone else gets the benefit.

You might disagree with the results, but I think greed, sloth, and
corruption are perfectly representative of those who vote - democracy
still works in that way.

> the public needs to eventually learn that for every dollar they send
> to washington, they get only a fraction back, no matter how lucrative
> their own pork. the problem with our
> politics is that voters have not realized that they are almost always
> cheating themselves when they try to cheat their neighbors. it's a shell
> game that they keep playing as long as they think someone else is paying.

David Freedman described this perfectly (my paraphrase from memory):

100 people sit around the table with 100 pennies each.  Someone starts
with the first and takes a single penny from each and dumps 50 back at the
first person.  This process is repeated for each person.  Everyone ends up
with half the wealth, but are happy because the 50 cents in bulk is easier
to spot than the single pennies being removed.

Except for Harry Browne who asked would you give up your favorite subsidy
if it meant you never had to pay taxes again, the tax cuts are separated
from the subsidies.  If the recipient lobbys for the subsidy, he gets
$500, but if I get it cut, I may save $0.50.  A few beneficiaries will do
whatever it takes because it is many times more important to them to have
the subsidy than the millions who would have to pay more for postage or
the phone call to oppose it than they do in taxes for that one program. 

You learn that it costs far more to prevent spending than to lobby for
your own share.  It is not a problem with politics, but with any system
that has concentrated benefits but dispersed costs.

[and that is why the internet is such a threat to our current way of doing
things - it disperses everything making it impossible to concentrate
benefits - routing around political subsidies as it does everything else.]

With tax rates going up (a concentrated cost), the money is coming from
the unborn generations who will have to pay back the principle on the long
term debt.  They don't vote - and when they do it will be too late to do
anything about it - which may be now. 

> I don't believe there are intrinsic flaws in democracy, so much as
> there are intrinsic flaws in *human*nature* that are coming to light
> after decades. government is a reflection of our human natures.
> one cannot really expect a government to correct the flaws of its
> users, any more than software could do the same.

But then the question is whether democracy (which needs more definition) 
is the best system to compensate for the flaws.  For example: Markets turn
selfishness to utility.  What virtue is promoted or vice limited or
converted by democracy per se?

--- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com ---






From azur at netcom.com  Mon Sep  8 16:19:45 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:19:45 +0800
Subject: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), was Democracy isthe true enemy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



At 12:54 PM -0700 9/8/97, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>FYI, SS is quoting from a new book that I have mentioned on this
>list on a prior date.

Part II wasn't quoted from Soverign Individual.

--Steve







From frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu  Mon Sep  8 16:44:04 1997
From: frogfarm at yakko.cs.wmich.edu (Damaged Justice)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:44:04 +0800
Subject: ctb196.htm
Message-ID: <199709082336.TAA27048@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>




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   09/08/97- Updated 09:34 AM ET
   
  PCs no longer needed to place Net calls
  
   Consumers can now make super-cheap, long-distance phone calls over the
   Internet without even touching a computer - creating a dangerous rival
   for long-distance companies.
   
   Monday, IDT unveils Net2Phone Direct, a service that lets a consumer
   pick up a phone, dial a number and send the call through the Internet
   to a