Mar 12 mtg notes [long, 35K]

M. Strata Rose strata at fenchurch.MIT.EDU
Mon Mar 21 16:05:33 PST 1994

Here are my notes on the March 12th meeting; I haven't really edited them, so
they are kind of rough, but if I waited until I had time to edit them they'd
never get posted.  All I've done is run thrm through a spelling checker and
do minimal clarification where I was typing only pieces of something.  They
were in Acta format, not plain text, so there are lots of tiny paragraphs
that used to be outlines, the indentations still carry some of the form
though.  I apologize for the formatting, the mac editors are lame about
saving text with layout, putting in an extra LF with the CR's and doing
other lossage.  And we won't even talk about getting rid of "smart
quotes" (aargh); at least two major editors force you to do find/replace
to get rid of them...  I would be happy to save a postscript version of the 
document and put it up for FTP on soda.

Comments, clarifications, and identifications of folks who are annotated as
"??" should be sent to strata at, not to the whole list (where
I wouldn't see them anyway, since I am only on cypherpunks-announce). 
Apologies to the folks who didn't want 35K of notes in their mailbox, the
tyranny of the vocal majority requested they be posted... :-)


[Notes on Cypherpunks meeting at Cygnus, Mar 12 1994.  Copyright M.
Strata Rose, 1994, all rights reserved.  This document may be forwarded
in its entirety for personal communication but may not be quoted at 
length without the author's permission.  Journalists wishing to use this
document as source material must first contact the author.]

Show-n-tell: cypherpunks digital phone project

	Eric Blossom shows board to connect between phone and wall, 
engineering prototype on Codex chip, etc 

	28,800 baud capable, 120db down relay; pcmcia for keys, etc

	2105 xtrlr, inline devices, $12 q 1; can use as answering machine, 
etc; final target price under $1K

	Tim May says some folks in Seattle years ago got a patent on 
something called Phaser Phone, crypto phone, USGov used the patent 
to slap a classified on the technology.

	AT&T phone competitive price...

Phil Karns made request for Applied Cryptography, ruled to be in public 
domain and thus exportable; the day he got that on paper he filed a 
second request on "is the floppy exportable?"

Someone should file a CJ request for PGP

	download, put on floppy, write letter attesting that you got it that 

Mbone audio link

	Mark Horowitz & co at MIT

	Nathan Loofborough at ohio state


	SF cypherpunks

	EFF offices in DC, Dan Brown sysadm

	doing direct audio link to Horowitz at MIT, mixed into mbone from 

	control center up in BayMOO so that there's   a token (a floor tile) for 
message-stick, one delegate per site to talk, control room has a hush 
feature to shut up non-delegate speakers; later on there will probably be 
some echos-- people will type live meeting into MOO areas

	Pavel runs similar setup at PARC

Head count

	MIT 8-10 folks

	EFF  11

	MtView 45-50

	Ohio State 1

	San Diego 1


	Politics! almost first anniversary of clipper meeting

		Eric H notes that Clipper was deliberate executive branch 
sideswipe of separation of powers; Dorothy Denning mentions economic 
ploy-- using discretionary fund to purchase clippered phones w/o 
legislative review, creating demand & standard in one swoop

		We will have to involve the legislature to stop Clipper, you 
can"t just ask executive branch to restrain itself; we will have to restrain 
legislature w/judicial restraint; we probably need an amendment to 
enhance privacy to preclude lossage.  

Four main points are:

		comm tech

		crypto tech



		Mark Horowitz mentions needing to get a populist feel for 
pseudonymity before trying to get stuff for amendment


Tim May:

			brought stack of books to show; 

			how to avoid the privacy invaders: low profile

			getting started in the underground economy

			how to create a new identity

			the outlaws bible by ex boozy

			the us intelligence community by jeffrey richelson, in 
tradition of banfrey/banfey pub by ??B in cambridge subsidiary of harper 
& rowe

			bruce benson, the enterprise of law, (distributed legal 
systems workings) (how cryto anarchy might work) 

			how to launder money

			how to open a swiss bank account

			the secret money market

			Juicy books! (sez Tim); the theme was Rants this 
time, so he wrote a rant on the coming police state; may drift into a police 
state not by malice but by gradual surveillance for "our own good".  

			Example: stuff built into cars for tolls, bridges, etc; 
how about using Chawmean(sp?) credentials for anonymity based on 
payments beforehand.

			Linkages of other info on drivers licenses, for 
example health system stuff, could lead to things like diabetics being 
denied access to bars as incidental info comes up on age-check scan

			Tim mentions Cpunks is kind of stuck in 1970's  
secret decoder ring technology, not concentrating enough on fighting 
routine surveillance by "benign" agencies; Tim is not seeing any 
mainstream discussion of Chawm technology in American press.

			Worst can happen very quickly if backlash against 
immigrants goes into effect, or if national health plan card goes worst 
case.  Double whammy this month:  clipper goes through as if we never 
tried, then digital telephony II resubmitted for massive tapping and 

			Increasingly groups will have scattered meetings,  
under DTII the meeting today would have to be tappable.

			Gilmore says Senators Leyhi and Edwards are 
having hearings, John, EFF, & randoms (phone, computer, civil libs folks) 
will be testifying.  Wants to take small exception to what Tim is sayng; 
EFF has taken strong stance that transactional data shouldn"t be 
available without a real live warrant; DTII says that gov folks could get 
phone numbers, etc w/o even going through a court.  Mentions cell 
phones keep your cell location even when you"re not on the phone, auto 
net trackers, etc, this is transactional data, this is why they are tryiing to 
get this into law now before people are thinking about this much.  One 
thing came out in hearings is how much law enforcement folks are 
already demanding direct from phone companies (to get your bills if 
they"re in investigations), they get more than 100K people's  phone bills 
and do web analysis on drug dealers, etc; source for 100K number is 
House report on the ECPA.  One of most important parts is to protect 
transactional data with bureaucratic process reviewed by juidicial staff.

			Tim wrapping up, has one more thing to say; EFF 
and lot of other groups fighting for this, he in person has no faith in the 
govt being trustworthy, do security via obscurity and just plain don"t let the 
govt figure it out, have it encrypted.

			Query from MarkH;  agrees with Tim, preaching to 
converted though; problems due to ignorance and apathy on part of 
people, people not aware of full ramifications of personal privacy.  
Europeans seem to be more aware.

			Phil Karn comes in via San Diego <Hugh announces 
he's  on the link>

			Fen mentions we need both to educate and to opt in 
to things, that you shouldn"t be selling your info (such as ATM 
supermarket purchases) w/o consent and knowledge.

			Mark H. asks what we can do in specific; Eric Hughes 
says we need to set agenda and work on positioning.

	Constitutional Amendments

	AntiClipper Legislation

	Strata: do newspaper article on parallels between stuff here and 
now and stuff in Eastern europe

	Bill Stewart: NIST survey on privacy and tech, look for it on the net

	Don Hopkins: frame this as "you need your privacy to protect 
yourself from your neighbors"

	??  : Maria Cantwell's  HR 3627 export restrictioin lifting 

	??:  Make people realize privacy tech exists

	?? : NII privacy issues request for comments (Bill Stewart)

	Neil Rest: develop pieces of agitprop, etc get press kits and 
pamphlets so that when we can give them info when we GET their 

	??:  WWW page, has anyone made one, let's  do a single site for 
lots of anti clipper, lots of tail ends in other stuff

	??: takes care of small network, his responsibility is to give privacy, 
wants to give govt solution and make ourselves the watchmen

	Strata:  encrypted alt group w/news service, put in time to make it 
juicy and fun, give folks motivation to use the tools.

	Tim May: agenda item on active sabotage of big brother/clipper, 
create anticlipper sentiment in new grads, semiotic anticlipper thingy, 

	?? AT&T guy:  let's  do executive educatioin seminars for corporate 
weenies on clipper, those dudes have access to the PACS

	Arthur Abrahms: publicy of privacy enhancing solutions to stuff like 
toll booth problem, popularizin them

	nelson baghla (sp?):  come up with solution to the govt's  problem 
that protects our privacy

	Gilmore:  official study of crypto coming up, Herb Lin of Nat"l 
Research Council, needs good people to be on review board/panel

	Strata:  NPR radio show on clipper

	??: will anyone go on mcneil lehrer?

	Bill Stewart:  stockholder resolutions for corporations good way to 
do propaganda and to generate publicity & opinion

	John Morton:  journalism outreach, list of Cypherpunks reps who 
are willing to be contacted (is part of press kit), *do* a press kit

	??:  are there clipper clipping services

	Russ Whittker:  set up speakers bureau, people willing to speak at 
functions about this

	Gilmore:  deploy cryptography, put kerberos in your OS, do the 
usenet feed, etc

	Jim Warren talk:

		Jim Warren:  AB1624 passed, round of applause

		learned how to use the net to pursue political advocacy and 
action, and to amplify political power in the hands of people

		woke up after reading piles of email on gov weenieness 
with a solution on how to do this:

			we all know to write letter to congresscritter; turns out 
letters to state (much less feds) count in certain ways

				individual letter, some attention

				form letter, less attention

				phone calls, logged only (counted)

				form letters & cards almost useless w/one 
exception [support/anti support for bills, treated later 3/19 _S]

				communications become much less 
interesting to legislators once they come from someone who isn"t a voter 
in their own district; in some district offices the staff has instructions to 
throw away unread stuff from people outside the district

				how do we persuade them with the people 
they DO pay attention to? (registered voters in their district)

				"communication from a citizen who is not 
identifiable as a member of a partisan group, political affiliation, or other 
organization, ie not a drone from somewhere like NRA, church, etc, ie 
something that seems to be from a private citizen rather than from a push 
group" (highest value)

				of course, let's  be realistic here: PACS have 
mucho power

				Best case is Mr. Organization with a large 
check, but next after that is private citizen apparently writing from an 
individual concern.

				What we really want is a whole bunch of 
people from their own districts appearing to spontaneously write in and 
say "hey, don't do this" or "hey, do that".

				If you want to influence congress, don"t contact 
all of them, contact committee members, target them; "major perversion, 
err amendment" (his quote!) goes on in committee.  [Request for] bill 
status documents bill's  path through committees,  subcommittees.  
Identify few members of key committees that are real decision makers 
who can kill the bill before it hits the floor, where they don"t dick with it 
much.  If we can persuade their voters in their district to contact them 
apparently spontaneously, we have clout that exceeds lobbyists.

				In all jurisdictions, voter registration lists are 
public record and available in machine readable form;

				Contact folks in your own district and ask for 
real citizens in your own district to send real letters to a citizen in the key 
members" district, just tell us how many letters you are wiling to write and 
we"ll give you mailing labels for them and some sample letters to modify 
electronically to write to the folks!

				Modify the hell out of it, this is not a topdown 
authoritarian form letter it is supposed to be grass roots; please use 
typewriter fonts only, give folks scripts to do mailmerge stuff on their 
personalized form letters, idealized letters.

				Example:  draft sample letters, inflammatory, 
less inflammatory, polite, post via FTP and call for effort, say I"ll provide 
you with names & addrs; 

				typical district congressional is 500,000  - 
600,000 with probably 250K reg voters; provide folks with scattering of 
names so that everyone doesn"t send their own letter to neighbors, 
businesses in same area (to prevent people from thinking its a scam or 
form letter)

				when I provide name & address sets I will 
provide name & addr of cooperating people in district of test recipients 
(and will tell you), so that I can find out what you"re sending and when 
you"re sending it, ie tell them that there are salts in the list but not who the 
salts are...

				let's  also provide form letters appropriate for 
sending to newspapers; typical ways you can draft a letter that will almost 
certainly make it into editorial pages, provide forms and instructions on 
how to do that

				When I did AB1621 I wrote it [the info on the 
bill,  and in sample letter] in such a way as any reader could find out 
issues, topics, who to write to, etc but so that direct cutting and pasting 
was *hard* but getting info out was easy, so people wrote in and gave 
same info but no two letters really resembled each other so the effect was 
very powerful

				in typical urban, suburban, etc,  newspaper, 
letters to the editor page will exceed comics and sports!

				Typically 1/2 to 2/3 of those 250K voters vote, 
so that knocks down the list of those to influence to write;  the ringer is 
that politicians have a different kind of arithmetic they have memorized; 
it's  not the population, not the reg voters, not the voters who actually go 
out and vote because in a contested election most of those are won by a 
5 to 10% margin; so anyone a legislator believes can swing 10% of the 
vote in their next election is someone to be "cozied up to and feared".  
Numbers turn out to be (upcoming boardwatch article by Warren) 3500 to 
7-8K affected in a typical district, if you can affect those voters you can 
swing the election.  Ways to figure out which ones those are, BTW.

				Reg list will not only have names and 
addresses, but will typically track who has voted in the last X elections, ie 
whether or not you showed up.  You can get that info!  Every candidate 
running wants to know who ACTIVE, likely registered voters are.  Don 
Hopkins asks if politicians are smart enough to check letters from folks 
against names of active frequent voters; it is actually a criminal violation 
in many districts!  System in SoCal called Monarch that tracks voters and 
can pull names and addresses, they can pull your info when they get a 
letter to see if you"ve voted recently, what listed party affiliation is, etc.

				Jim W has been told that part of that info has 
been blocked off from legislator's  staff via their own computers, they have 
to go to the Partisan office.

				Other things need to be made available--- 
master copies of leaflets and door stuffers.  Available to residents in or 
near a congressional legislator's  district.  Works for any legislation, not 
just anticrypto and not just congresscritters.  Activist near target 
geographic area must print on laser printer, do good quality leaflet, 
though there may be marketing justification for making it look somewhat 

				Door stuffers & leaflet are standard political 
tools, used by activists, you don"t have to be charming, etc, can do from 
your own home 7x24, "this is Nerd Power folks!  This is Active 
Participation, this is access to information so provocative and persuasive 
that they are persuaded to act, this is Patrick Henry writing inflammatory 
text that Ben Franklin prints on the printing press in the spare room in his 
home that Paul Revere rides down the electronic highway shouting and 
handing out literature..." 

				One of the cool things about this technology is 
that it is absolutely useless to covert interests, doesn"t work on issues that 
can"t be open action, that the public wouldn"t support!  You don"t have to 
be covert, you don"t have to sneak up.  You can say here's  exactly what 
we"re doing, if you know what's  going on you will get really annoyed and 
help the cause.  His guess is that this will be fairly mature and ripe 
technology by 1996 presidential elections and that this will be a massive 
tool in the 2000"s.

				Most effective political action is from 
nonpartisan citizen to his/her elected official; "this is a chance to use 
these ThinkerToys to ... "<hugh being annoying lost memory of quote>

				Wex from MIT:  thanks, he's  a little jaded since 
he's  been using it in environmental movment, is more effective with a 
central organization, like EFF, someone needs to do this (radio shows, 
get volunteers, etc)

				Jim agrees, says it takes folks of wide talents 
ranging from wordsmith to scutwork secretarial to political 
insiders/realworld familiarity to put it all together. But it doesn"t take a lot 
of people to do it and it can be done by a much much larger range of 
people than the ones who can do traditional style PACtion.  Does not 
require significant loot!  Caveat here:  the computer, laser printer, etc 
better be owned by private individual or by registered political org, 
otherwise you"re asking for trouble unless you register it as an In-Kind 
Contribution, can lose your 501(c)3, rival politicians will look for this and 
any other thing to cause trouble and shut you down!  Major flak in Sactoh 
has some senior politicians doing jail time for using such resources for 
poli stuff.

				Push from the ["misguided":  Eric H] privacy 
enthusiasts, to severely restrict machine readable and even paper copies 
Milton Markson in Senate (SF) Jackie Spear in House (south SF); only 
big money parties and incumbents would have access if that passes.  
Indicentally it ain"t hard to get this, he has DAT tape that he always 
carries with him, has all reg voters for SantaClara and SanMateo (750K-
850K, 400K respectively) on hard disk as well as property records 
(assessors records).  Straight off magtape was 400-500Meg per county.  
Company in SoCal in SanDiego that has pressed CDROM voter reg 
records for under $100, privacy advocates "going orbital" over this, 
statutory restrictions that these are supposed to be being used for 
campaign, etc.  but a helluva lot more people are buying them than can 
be accounted for that way and you know they are being abused by 

				comments from ?? (perry?): real problem is 
that in many cases a senator will have many people who agree 
wholeheartedly with their (to us, lame) cause, example of senator in 
Arkansas, trying to do gun control campaign-- ha ha, good luck! 

				Jim replies he is doing electronic equiv of 
precinct walkers and drones; arthur abrahms says "its a brilliant way to 
subvert localization of political process"

				"Perot-inoids"  are sponsoring balliot initiabive 
to stop anyone from contribing to state or local campaign who was not 
able to vote in that campaign.  Jim thought it was neat until someone in 
Common Cause pointed out fallacy (contribs are political speech, so 1st 
amend).  Main fallacy is that congress votes on laws that affect all of us, 
so members on key committee might not be elected by any of us in a 
district yet we are going to be affected by their votes, so it's  right and 
correct for us to seek to affect them.

				??: suggest cross correlating email addrs 
w/voter reg letters to send pre-emailings to people likely to have email 
addrs, etc...

				BTW, legislators almost never read actual 
letters, almost never have time to meet people, etc etc;  their time is 
sucked up by all kinds of folks....the flapper system is alive and well, 
flappers read and summarize all...

				Neil Rest:  is list of congress committees and 
subcommittees somewhere easily downloadable,  also list of districts by 
zipcode so we can filter our own addressbooks to find folks in good 
districts; Jim thinks much committee stuff is ftpable from  Zip 
code exists, every political operative probably has it, can be created from 
precinct records, but legally shaky, maybe 70% of zip is in one district 
and 30% in another, so not as great.

Finger a zipcode and find out who your legislator and member of 
assembly is:  finger 94087 at, has a nice little finger daemon to 
do the lookup....

				When Jim got started on 1624 they told him it 
was dead, he said "why, its a great bill?", "well we can"t find any support 
for it", "well what do you need as evidence of support?"  The aide said 
"10 or 15 letters or faxes would be a strong showing of support", I said 
"out of *31 million californians?!*" and she said *yes*.  That is a good 
idea of how much a letter from your own district counts.  Only exception to 
"own district" rule is a bill's  author wants to see a whole lot of letters from 
anywhere at all; they HATE to see letters opposing the bill.  Mentions 
1991 example of "the offending sentence" in a bill , outlawing crypto, 
"they got torched to hell and gone", took only 2 weeks to get rid of the 
offending sentence. 

				ALWAYS worthwhile to do concise 1 page 
letter to bill's  author supporting or opposing!

				Schlackman and Fozzio in NYC, American 
Campaign data in Palo Alto, acquire all this info from county, will sell it to 
you in mag tape, labels, printing, walking order maps, etc.  On the 
cheapo, go to voter reg place (county clerk etc) for a given jurisdiction 
and purchase info on diskette (often, but sometimes in 9track ebcdic).    

				He's  planning on pursuing this technique and 
process for crypto issue, against software patent monopoly, for state push 
to get political disclosures available electronically for free online  
jwarren at

	Gilmore's  FOIA's  

		ftp. /pub/foia.clipper.key

		Phone interview w/Phil Z, Gilmore, in InfoSecurity News 
[note: firewalls list recently posted address for it, look in for list archives of past month 3/19 _S]

		Ch 7 news came down and did interview here at Cygnus, 
related to CERT advisory passwd cracking stuff, we put a press release 
out re: public release of Kerberos, they called up Cygnus noticing from 
the press wire; Gumby gave a demo gotten from cracker's  passwd sniffer 
which was installed by cracker; other story in that news segment was 
about 3 guys put up billboard looking for wives and a voicemail number, 
someone hacked in and put a new outgoing message saying "thanks for 
calling but we"re really only interested in men".

		Clipper FOIA, no response yet

		Exports, commerce, etc

			he asked "how is crypto being applied, etc etc" in 
commerce & export

			first folks to reply were Dept of Justice Office of Legal 
Counsel analysis folks who were saying that licensing scheme violates 
1st amendment; have been writing memos to that effect for years!

			memos have been forwarded to EFF, scanning them 

			Jim Warren:  suggests forwarding these to 2020, Day 
1, etc, this is one arm of the govt stonewalling another arm

			Gilmore got turned on to the Office of Legal counsel 
because of 1980 hearings on Govt Classification of Private Ideas  (crypto, 
patents, private research on atomic energy were main topics); turned 
onto those hearings by Brahms Gang posting on sci.crypt, found copy of 
hearing in Fed depository, later found transcripts of entire hearings not 
just minutes/proceedings; very first memo from office of legal counsel is 
repro"d in minutes, saying "we"re trying to tell you it's  unconstitutional".

			two sentence synopsys:  if you file to try to get a 
patent on something they can order you not to tell anyone about it and 
they can put your patent application on hold indefinitely and you can go 
to jail for a decade for talking about it; George Devita (early crypto 
inventor) got notified on a speakerphone surrounded by students and 
was thus in violation immediately, publicized his case to NYTimes & 
congresscritter, part of impetus for hearings, NSA backed down.

	Generated List of Agenda Items

		Eric notes that the balance between external education and 
internal generation [of items] is pretty good....

		Legislation available to us:  we need to figure out what 
needs to go into a bill to kill Clipper RIGHT NOW...

			Arthur suggests making mandatory for intra-gov 
comm, Eric says no, that will create a market, maybe a secondary 
strategy is if clipper passes then try that

			no Fed standards w/classified data

			MIT says that NSA is breaking the law right now, 
there's  a regulation against it, they asked Mike Godwin and he said 
<garble> don"t mention it you"d be screwing up!

			??: would suing be a good tactic, asking for a writ or 
somesuch to enforce the statute against the NSA doing this kind of stuff 
(standards setting, classification)

			Bill Stewart:  if NSA is not allowed to be involved in 
civilian crypto then the FIP defines the way you vet clipper as being "ask 
the nsa"; other way to define legislation is that escrowed keys be 
available to corresponding citizen and citizen notified of attempted and 
denied access

			?? again:  access to keys could be time delimited, 
notify citizen of end of time; Bill says in clipper you don"t know your own 
key so you should be able to know it;

			Neil Rest-- broadening FIPS (fed info proc stds) to FS 
(fed standards)

			??:  need to attack private citizens not using crypto 

			key "escrow" is illegal (pass a law)

			FIPS is illegal

			Eric H's  whole attitude was turned around by one 
sentence from Mark Rotenberg, EFF counsel:  "it's  much more interesting 
to change the law than to adjudicate it."

			Bill Stewart:  read Renos rules on access:  said can 
be accessed by method A, B, C but not *disallowed* kinds of access

			can"t mandate clipper use between private parties 
and government (chip)

			Strata: can we mandate use of clipper or similar so 
that industry will say it's  too expensive to implement ; Eric, no, backward 
strategies are too dangerous.

			Jim other (not Warren):  can we do stuff on state level 
that will override the gov"t, can we persuade individual states not to use 
clipper and thus break the back of clipper that way (ie propose legislation 
that prevents CA from buying clipper phones)

			Arthur:  alter rules of order for cryto legislation, 
require 2/3 majority

			Tim May:  I think any law that says certain types of 
crypto should be required or disallowed plays into the hands of people 
who want to control crypto; how about coattailing on English is not 
national language movement, no one shall be required to speak in 
particular language.

			James Madison's  argument against bill of rights 
recapitulated by Eric H in response to Tim, Tim says we shouldn"t be 
encouraging legislation, it encourages the feeling that they CAN legislate 
crypto policies.

			Lawrence Tribe from Harvard had suggestion for 
amendment basically "right of free speech and assembly should not be 
abrogated by technological progress." <bravo!>  

			Chip:  if skipjack hits PD, we should be able to use it

			Perry & Martin: how about a bill to put skipjack in PD

			Perry: require procedure & public reports, comments 
in fed register, rquire for all standards, procedure before adoption

			?? :  Xfer crypto policy into hands of dept commerce 
bureau of export (non military only); that agency has an entire culture of 
making regs easier & promoting export, etc; commerce always goes in 
and fights for decontrol, will create counterbalance force in govt pointing 
the right way!

			?? blond guy:  coda to having a central authority, put 
auto-approval on export/distribution, ie after N weeks it goes out if they 
don"t do anything... also that would be a good amendment to 3627

		Eric says we need to replace "escrow", possibly w/key 
custody or key retention ["detention" says crowd].

			Witt Diffy talks about terminology that John LeCarre 
put in espionage from his writing, if you think up terms that are better they 
*will* use them.

			net suggestions:  loosely guarded key warehouse, 
key generation service

			key license vault, master key, custody, retention, key 
hostage, key confiscation, forfeiture, skeleton key, key minting

			Hugh-- Dept of Justic skeleton key closet?  

			key licensing system, key assignment, 

			Tim May says great exercise, but no parallel in our 
system, possible parallel in surrendering your documents when you 

			Key dissemination service, key surrender, sequester, 
key chaperone, duplicate key demonstration, keyjackers

			Trojan chips-- escrowed for your protection! <strata>

			bumper stickers-- my other key is not in the gov"ts 

Just say NO to key escrow.  Hell no, I won"t escrow.

			Ridicule terms-- house key escrow good analogy

			incumbents surveillance system <jim w>

key conscription

key seizure <tim may>

privacy forfeiture system <arthur>

key crib

communication permit, privacy permit, security permit

			key sharing  [the Barney system! eric]

permissible privacy

key disclosure system

denial of privacy

ministry of privacy  (minipriv & minisec, one holds each half)  Winston 

			Internal Privacy Service <don hopkins>  also 
privateers, J Edgar Hoover Data Vacuum

			key generation bureau KGB

			privacy tattoo <hugh>

			ministry of information

			privacy reposession agency (repo man!) 

			doublekey (like doublespeak); big brother's  key ring

			dept of data vehicles <strata>

			Tim May says Joe Sixpack doesn"t know key escrow 
but has heard of Clipper, so we should hack on clipper.


			Martin Perry:  the visible citizen

			Tim May says Mike Godwin is referring to 
"information snooper highway"  (info sniffer highway, Tim quips)

			SUCK  save us from clipper keys 

			Beavis & Butthead episode, have them build a DES 
cracking machine or talk the class nerd into it  <strata>  call it the 
"buttcracking machine"  <eric h>

			Tim May talks about forging postings of semi-official 
memos realistically as a form of satire; Strata:  no, it's  too dangerous,  we 
can"t afford to have people link us to not clearly labelled satirical 
documents; Gilmore: yes, remember how the cypherpunks community felt 
about being on the receiving end of the misinformation barrage via 
Detweiler; Tim: why not misinformation, just make it too bogus, etc; 
Gilmore: read great satire about Internet collapsing due to flat rate 
pricing, no investment by service providers, and in fact Nader 
commission just snuck a flat rate proposal in a couple days ago to 
"encourage competition"; Bill Stewart:  yep april 1st is coming up, April 
1st RFCs are traditional.; Tim clarifies he wants to make them look 
ridiculous, ludicrous, start a campaign of laughter against them; Arthur 
suggests that people don"t know the issues well enough; John Morton 
suggests preparing a white paper/FAQ style and gradually leading them 
into the issues and making it clear how silly it is.

			Martin Perry agrees, like propose a legislation that 
bans draperies, the drapery escrow stuff; Martin Minow says people 
should contact any Hollywood contacts as they have experience getting 
stuff out.  Tim May:  SNL did satire commercials of little Newton Message 
Pads of LCD notes, waiting for it to boot, etc.   You could probably get 
SNL to do a fake commercial on key registration or key escrow, etc.  Stuff 
was good-- after Newton pseudomercial 300 people apparently called 
Apple wanting to buy one!  Bill Stewart:  get Rush Limbaugh to do a fake 
commercial too and get the *other* half of the country.<applause>

			Hugh-- this is your key; this is your key on escrow

			Bill Stewart-- Clipper Key Escrow Service: we"re from 
the government, we"re here to help you

			Clipper the database from the people who brought 
you {waco, welfare}

			Strata:  "Expose yourself to surveillance."  Maybe we 
can get that mayor who did the expose yourself to art posters!

			Anything you say or hear can/will be used against 
you outside a court of law.

			Telephone w/Miranda rights on it.

			Martin Perry:  stickers had " do not discuss or try to 
talk around classified info" at an old job of his, on phones.

			Katy:  tidybowl man w/surveillance in a phone

			Phone w/"do not remove this tap under penalty of 

			Bill Stewart:  not only could "big brother inside" be 
turned into a screen saver but cypherpunks could issue a whole 
screensaver set and license it to Berkeley Systems; Martin Perry: spy vs 
spy too; every now and again it will randomly look like a fax is being 
made and say a copy of this screen is being sent to a govt agency; every 
time it is invoked it shows you what was on your screen the last time it 
was invoked; Tim May-- virus that says your hard disk is being 

			Void says a mod of the THX slogan: The govt is 

			The clipper chip, bringing you 1984 in 1994.

			Hopkins:  Clipper backup plan-- send any vital data 
overseas encrypted w/magic cookie, send FOIA request to retrieve it!

			Use a phone, go to jail (arthur); May-- Clipper 
questions?  call someone and ask them.

			Warning-- NSA has determined that strong crypto is 
dangerous to...<varies>..

			Tim: aside from satire we should be thinking of 
different slogans that appeal to other groups ranging from Schafly and 
rightwing, etc.

			Only God should know (digital confessional, strata 
brings up clipper would violate this>)

			Arthur:  Guns & codes, the american way.

			Clipper, for your most public conversations. 

			Clipper the last amendment <hugh>

			Ever had a gov"t agency tap you from thousands of 
miles away?  You will!  <??>

			Narrow your listeners down to two.   <witt diffy>

			Reach out and tap someone.

			Tip & Tap, the Clipper Brothers

			Clipper, can we talk?

			Strata: let's  hack popular music too:  Whitney 
houston hack:  "I will always hear you" and "from a distance" 

			Tom:  all conversations are created private but some 
are more private than others <much cheering>

			Clipper:  the privacy problem's  final solution

			you deserve a tap today; have it their way.

			with clipper you"re never alone <hugh>

			instead of we are everywhere, clipper: we will be 

			your direct line to the government

			third ear stickers for digital phones <strata>

			you"ll never talk alone

			Clipper:  when you absolutely positively have 
nothing to hide

			Phil Karns says he wishes the people w/the good 
jokes would stand closer to the mike!

			Eric Hughes:  a man's  phone is his castle

			...that huge sucking sound is your privacy flowing 
south into clipper....<?? perry?>

			pay no attention to the govt behind the phone line...

		Witt Diffy mentions German constitutional amendment 
debate to expand police capacity for legal wiretap; protest movement is 
using term <gla:sern burgher> (sp?) "a transparent citizenry"

		Strata draws parallel between McCarthyism & this, govt can 
say you have something to hide if you are fighting clipper.

		Anti-Clipper Semiotics

		Marketing & Positioning

		Press Coverage

			Now vs Eastern Europe

		Cantwell Bill HR 3627

		Sameer at, student at UCB, cypherpunk 
remailer works to send return mail back with encrypted block; he has 
some docs on the remailer/blink anon server.  A remailer that doesn"t 
need to know the correspondences between anon-ids and real-ids.   
Can"t run it for real yet, he has restrictions on his account, but contact him 
via email if you want to help test it.  Also started writing an install script for 
cypherpunks remailers, if you get this install script you can just type 
install remailer and you"ll get a standard remailer that can tell "normal" 
mail from mail that should get remailed, etc.  Available for ftp on soda.

		Strick; working on system called Kudzu, based on Tcl; 
hopes to port to PC and Mac, keeping modular portable components in 
key.  Is crypto toolkit, has DES, RSA, diffy-helleman, gnu database, Ian 
Smith did C client wrapper for reading, interpreting mailers,  lightweight 
threads out of SunOS, also setjmp/lngjmp.  Wants to have support for 
threaded Dynin (DCNET) cryptography net, have random IP services in 
that.  Plans to have FTP stuff (for US Citizens only) out before April trip to 
Budapest & Berlin; quip that he can"t go since he knows this stuff.  Tim 
May mentions that if he said he was going w/the intention of 
implementing stuff outside the country he could be in trouble.


M. Strata Rose
Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information 
Virtual City Network (tm)
strata at | strata at | strata at

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