[CCGT] RE: [gfsg] Fwd: Community Council Agenda items - April 5 Meeting
Malcolm Atkinson
mpa at nesc.ac.uk
Sun May 1 09:46:18 CDT 2005
Charlie,
That was my understanding from the call and subsequent events call.
i.e. it is approved in my view.
Malcolm
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Satoshi Matsuoka [mailto:matsu at is.titech.ac.jp]
>Sent: 29 April 2005 21:54
>To: Charlie Catlett
>Cc: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp; Malcolm Atkinson; ccgt at ggf.org
>Subject: Re: [CCGT] RE: [gfsg] Fwd: Community Council Agenda
>items - April 5 Meeting
>
>Charlie,
>
>I think it was approved. If we are operating under an older model then
>it is either Dennis's or my duty to inform you. But since we are
>operating in an interum model where the scheduling decisions are being
>made by the organizers (Jule) and the decision is collective
>amongst the
>community council, where we seem to have unanimous agreement,
>I judge it
>is safe to assume that the workshop is officially approved and you are
>ready to proceed.
>
> Satoshi (M)
>
>
>On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:45:10 -0500
>Charlie Catlett <catlett at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
>
>catlett> Well, it's interesting for me to approach GGF from
>outside of the
>catlett> walls of power. :-) As I'm the one who approved all of the
>catlett> gauntlets and triplicate forms I certainly have no
>one else to blame!
>catlett>
>catlett> I need to get an answer on this more or less
>immediately, however, so
>catlett> can I get an official yes or no this week? I'm
>assuming since Julie
>catlett> contacted me about scheduling that we are going to
>get our visa
>catlett> approved.
>catlett>
>catlett> I spoke with Peter Arzberger (leads the PRAGMA
>group) and asked him
>catlett> to recruit 1 or 2 Asian co-chairs for the workshop -
>he will be
>catlett> pouring over the background information while on his
>flight to
>catlett> Singapore tonight for the PRAGMA meeting there.
>catlett>
>catlett> Next Monday I will hop on a plane to London, where
>I'll see Tony Hey
>catlett> on Tuesday and Wednesday at the GridToday industry
>summit. I
>catlett> mentioned this workshop to him in early April and he
>was interested,
>catlett> so I am hoping next week to get an eScience person
>to help co-chair.
>catlett>
>catlett> But my local co-chairs (Nancy WIlkins-Diehr from
>SDSC and Sebastien
>catlett> Goasguen from Purdue are doing the real work, though
>the list
>catlett> includes myself, Dennis and Ian Foster) are getting
>nervous about
>catlett> running out of time to organize and advertise.
>catlett>
>catlett> This last point is important, because the workshop
>really is being
>catlett> proposed to address GGF's community aspirations - to
>get more folks
>catlett> involved who would not normally already be coming to GGF.
>catlett>
>catlett> Thanks-
>catlett> CeC
>catlett>
>catlett>
>catlett> At 9:48 PM +0100 4/25/05, Malcolm Atkinson wrote:
>catlett> >Sorry Charlie to have been so demanding - that all
>looks great to me. I
>catlett> >never doubted that it would be. I partly posed the
>questions to see if
>catlett> >the old GROC criteria (which I had used in my
>judgements) were still the
>catlett> >ones GFSG would support.
>catlett> >
>catlett> >Malcolm
>catlett> >
>catlett> >
>catlett> > >-----Original Message-----
>catlett> > >From: Charlie Catlett [mailto:catlett at mcs.anl.gov]
>catlett> > >Sent: 18 April 2005 16:27
>catlett> > >To: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp; Malcolm Atkinson
>catlett> > >Cc: ccgt at ggf.org
>catlett> > >Subject: Re: [gfsg] Fwd: Community Council Agenda items -
>catlett> > >April 5 Meeting
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>mpa> I read all three workshop proposals.
>catlett> > >>mpa> The questions look like the old GROC ones,
>and I notice
>catlett> > >that Charlie
>catlett> > >>mpa> didn't answer them and that the health grid only
>catlett> > >answered some of them.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Ah, sorry I didn't run the GROC approval
>gauntlet correctly - we
>catlett> > >spend several hours in Seoul talking about how
>to get additional
>catlett> > >communities engaged in GGF and this was in
>direct response to that
>catlett> > >GFSG discussion. I did not realize I still
>needed to fill out the
>catlett> > >GROC forms in triplicate. :-)
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Appended is my response to Malcolm's two (not
>focused on one group;
>catlett> > >publication). Here is my official GROC application form:
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >A) Workshop Title
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Science Gateways: Exploring Common Interfaces,
>Policies and
>catlett> > >Interactions between Grid Resources and Science
>Communities
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >B) Proposed workshop organizer names and
>affiliations (possibly
>catlett> > >incl. review committee for type 2). Be sure to
>identify yourself if
>catlett> > >you are a chair of an existing RG/WG.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Catlett (UC/ANL), Gannon (IU), Foster (UC/ANL),
>Wilkins-Diehr (UCSD),
>catlett> > >Goasguen (Purdue)
>catlett> > >Have requested contacts from Tony Hey and
>Satoshi Matsuoka for people
>catlett> > >doing similar work elsewhere to help organize.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >C) RG/WG that will be involved (including
>potential RG/WGs as
>catlett> > >well as RG/WGs up for approval). If you are
>proposing a workshop
>catlett> > >without being a full RG, please provide a
>separate RG submission
>catlett> > >info, including candidate RG name, charter,
>area, chairs, BOF
>catlett> > >descriptions, etc.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >This workshop does not involve a particular
>RG/WG - it is intended to
>catlett> > >bring in new communities. However, we expect
>that some from the Life
>catlett> > >Sciences RG and GCE RG will participate.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >D) Scope and Content (a paragraph or two of
>the workshop
>catlett> > >description to be put on the program.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Provided already
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >E) Potential speakers for type one
>(invited( and possibly two
>catlett> > >workshops. Any additional info are welcome
>including the title of the
>catlett> > >talk, their abstract, etc. In fact the proposed
>program may be put
>catlett> > >here.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >We will have 4-6 presentations from people who
>are building, or have
>catlett> > >built, science gateways (portals or application
>software that
>catlett> > >provides Grid resources to scientists). Three
>will be from the
>catlett> > >TeraGrid project, three from other projects as
>we find them (we are
>catlett> > >actively seeking).
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >There will be 4-6 presentations regarding key
>technology/policy
>catlett> > >issues such as authentication and authorization,
>web services
>catlett> > >implementation strategies, etc.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >F) Past History of hosting a similar
>workshop inside or
>catlett> > >outside GGF.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Catlett, Foster and Gannon have pretty good track record
>catlett> > >right there...
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >G) Duration of workshop - half day (2-3
>slots incl. Breaks) or
>catlett> > >whole day (4-5 slots)
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Whole day
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >H) Estimated # of participants (if possible)
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >Unsure - probably 100-150
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >I) Publication Plans --- please indicate
>if you have plan to
>catlett> > >publish the workshop result with a certain
>publisher. If left out we
>catlett> > >will assume that the workshop product will be a
>GGF Informational
>catlett> > >Document.
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >GGF informational
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >CeC
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:50:08 -0500
>catlett> > >>To: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp, Charlie Catlett
><catlett at mcs.anl.gov>,
>catlett> > >>Dennis Gannon <gannon at cs.indiana.edu>
>catlett> > >>From: Charlie Catlett <catlett at mcs.anl.gov>
>catlett> > >>Subject: Re: [CCGT] Science Gateways workshop background
>catlett> > >>Cc: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp, ccgt at ggf.org
>catlett> > >>Bcc:
>catlett> > >>X-Attachments:
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>Hi-
>catlett> > >>The purpose of the workshop is to bring
>together folks who are
>catlett> > >>trying to bring Grid capabilities to a
>particular science community
>catlett> > >>(atmospheric scientists, chemists,
>bioinformatics folks, etc.), and
>catlett> > >>who are looking to use web services and/or web
>portals to do so. I
>catlett> > >>am seeing these communities moving out ahead of
>GGF or the "grid"
>catlett> > >>experts or "portal" experts. This is creating
>a danger that those
>catlett> > >>of us running Grids or Grid resources will have
>a chaotic situation
>catlett> > >>where our key commmunities will each want to
>set up an ad-hoc
>catlett> > >>interaction mode with us to serve their
>communities. One will want
>catlett> > >>to use group accounts and another will want to
>install a custom
>catlett> > >>daemon on our machines. Another will want to
>use web services and
>catlett> > >>another will want .NET.
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>The draft I circulated was a first cut at
>understanding what 10
>catlett> > >>communities are trying to build, and all ten
>want to access Grid
>catlett> > >>resources in TeraGrid. Some are also building
>their own Grids, and
>catlett> > >>all would like to also access Grid resources in
>the UK or Japan.
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>The idea of this workshop is to bring these
>consumers together with
>catlett> > >>one another and with producers to see if there
>are some things we
>catlett> > >>might agree on that can be implemented to nudge
>them toward some
>catlett> > >>common solutions. Now, some TeraGrid folks
>have made some headway
>catlett> > >>in looking at this and I would like to broaden
>that discussion to
>catlett> > >>others who are doing similar things (or should
>be). To this end I
>catlett> > >>asked Tony Hey last week to put me in touch
>with the right person or
>catlett> > >>persons from the UK, and would like similar
>contacts from Japan
>catlett> > >>(Satoshi please suggest) and elsewhere.
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>I don't see this as a TeraGrid-centric activity
>- we don't need GGF
>catlett> > >>to do that. We need GGF to help us broaden the
>effort by helping us
>catlett> > >>reach other communities.
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>So I would expect to do a call for
>participation not to the producer
>catlett> > >>community (GCE-RG, GGF typical producer
>population, portal experts),
>catlett> > >>though it would be good for them to
>participate, but to the consumer
>catlett> > >>community. I.e. those who don't really care
>that much about
>catlett> > >>standards or web services or grid technology
>other than that they
>catlett> > >>want to use them to serve their customers doing science.
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>The draft I circulated would be used to
>structure the workshop, get
>catlett> > >>input from more consumer groups, get producer
>groups to talk about
>catlett> > >>how they are addressing these issues, and then
>update the document
>catlett> > >>as a GGF informational document.
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>CeC
>catlett> > >>
>catlett> > >>At 2:21 AM +0900 4/10/05, Satoshi Matsuoka wrote:
>catlett> > >>>Charlie, Dennis,
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>I agree on its viability, but still Malcolm's
>concern that it be a
>catlett> > >>>TeraGrid-only centric event will have to be
>considered. Here is a
>catlett> > >>>(form) letter,
>catlett> > >>>and with proper fulfillment of the workshop
>template and widespread
>catlett> > >>>solicitation to key portal groups in EU as
>well as AP, hopefully the
>catlett> > >>>concern will be addressed.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>(form letter is attached below)
>catlett> > >>>
> Satoshi
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>----
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:52:37 -0500
>catlett> > >>>Charlie Catlett <catlett at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>catlett> Friends-
>catlett> > >>>catlett> Since the proposal I sent regarding
>this workshop
>catlett> > >mentioned a group
>catlett> > >>>catlett> in TeraGrid that was aiming to have a document
>catlett> > >drafted in March I
>catlett> > >>>catlett> wanted to send it to you. It's very
>preliminary,
>catlett> > >but it shows that
>catlett> > >>>catlett> the group is serious and already getting work
>catlett> > >done. I expect an
>catlett> > >>>catlett> iteration on this document within a few weeks
>catlett> > >since it was discussed
>catlett> > >>>catlett> in great detail during several sessions of the
>catlett> > >TeraGrid all-hands
>catlett> > >>>catlett> meeting earlier this week. I think
>this workshop
>catlett> > >will be very
>catlett> > >>>catlett> important to the community. My hope
>is that it will bring
>catlett> > >>>in some of
>catlett> > >>>catlett> the less-involved sectors of the community
>catlett> > >including people who are:
>catlett> > >>>catlett>
>catlett> > >>>catlett> - building portals for scientific communities
>catlett> > >>>catlett> - implementing web services on resources in
>catlett> > >operational grids
>catlett> > >>>catlett> - developing operational policies and
>mechanisms
>catlett> > >for varying degrees
>catlett> > >>>catlett> of authorization (from full access
>shell accounts
>catlett> > >to restricted
>catlett> > >>>catlett> service invocations) based on varying
>degrees of
>catlett> > >>>authentication (from
>catlett> > >>>catlett> highly trusted authentication to
>anonymous access)
>catlett> > >>>catlett> - trying to make multiple grids work
>together, etc.
>catlett> > >>>catlett>
>catlett> > >>>catlett> CeC
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>-----
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Charlie, Dennis,
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Thanks for yoru workshop proposal for the
>workshop proposal
>catlett> > >>>"Science Gateways Portals Workshop".
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>I am sending this email as the current GROC
>co-chair and
>catlett> > >also on behalf
>catlett> > >>>of the newly proposed community council.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>As a part of transitional activity of GGF governance to
>catlett> > >strengthen the
>catlett> > >>>community activities, the GFSG and the
>proposed community council
>catlett> > >>>therein will be taking active responsibility
>in workshop
>catlett> > >oversight. In
>catlett> > >>>the light of this we have decided to provide
>active dialogs to the
>catlett> > >>>workshop organizers to help strengthen the
>organizational process as
>catlett> > >>>well as its exterior outreach.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Please re-distribute this email to other
>organizers as well
>catlett> > >as anybody
>catlett> > >>>else involved in your workshop organization.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Since time is short till GGF14, I am accelerating the
>catlett> > >process by sending
>catlett> > >>>you comment(s) already made. As you see,
>although you have solid
>catlett> > >>>backings, and the workshop is accepted in principle,
>catlett> > >nevertheless as you
>catlett> > >>>see the comments below indicate that there is room for
>catlett> > >improvement in
>catlett> > >>>the proposal. I hope you could make the
>initial revisions
>catlett> > >by reflect the
>catlett> > >>>comments as you see fit, and send to the (proposed)
>catlett> > >community council
>catlett> > >>>the revised version in about a week's time
>(around April
>catlett> > >15th). In the
>catlett> > >>>meantime as additional comments come along,
>which will be
>catlett> > >forwarded to
>catlett> > >>>you if deemed helpful in the improvement, and
>if you make
>catlett> > >improvements
>catlett> > >>>as well, please let us know where you would
>like to do so.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Also please note that the primary intention
>for this is that we will
>catlett> > >>>want to allow some of the workshop to be a
>catlett> > >>>academically viable and recognizable activity
>from not only
>catlett> > >within the
>catlett> > >>>Grid community but from other CS communities.
>Thus, we would like
>catlett> > >>>to push on external communication of the
>workshop, both in terms of
>catlett> > >>>the content as well as the viability of its
>organizational
>catlett> > >manners. It
>catlett> > >>>is NOT intended to increase bureacratic
>stronghold of GFSG and the
>catlett> > >>>community council therein over the research groups.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>To quote one community council member: "I am passionate
>catlett> > >about the high
>catlett> > >>>value of good workshops: they stimulate, they
>inform, they build
>catlett> > >>>communities, they cross-fertilise and they
>recognise the
>catlett> > >need for new
>catlett> > >>>lines of work. Without workshops I think GGF
>would drift
>catlett> > >towards narrow
>catlett> > >>>technical nit-picking standards. The value of
>workshops is much
>catlett> > >>>diminished if the only effects are on those at the
>catlett> > >workshop. Hence the
>catlett> > >>>demand for publication and publicity."
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>I hope the new (proposed) community council
>can fruitfully
>catlett> > >work with the
>catlett> > >>>workshop organizers to fulfill such desires,
>to have you
>catlett> > >host a high-quality
>catlett> > >>>and a productive workshop. Looking forward to the
>catlett> > >>>revised proposal as well as the workshop
>itself. Thanks.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>> Best Regards,
>catlett> > >>> Satoshi Matsuoka
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Comment 1:
>catlett> > >>>===
>catlett> > >>>The Science Portals workshop looks a good
>topic, and we can
>catlett> > >trust Dennis
>catlett> > >>>and Charlie will run an excellent workshop.
>However, we
>catlett> > >need to take
>catlett> > >>>care that it doesn't become TeraGrid centred
>or US centred.
>catlett> > > We should
>catlett> > >>>see others, from Asian grids and European
>grids engaged in
>catlett> > >planning /
>catlett> > >>>presenting IMHO. I can find some, but the
>recent week on
>catlett> > >portals at eSI
>catlett> > >>>led by Jason Navotny has a good list of names
>catlett> >
>>>>(http://www.nesc.ac.uk/action/esi/contribution.cfm?Title=549),
>catlett> > >>>particularly UK ones.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>I would also suggest Roberto Barbera from
>Catania, bringing
>catlett> > >experience
>catlett> > >>>on EGEE's use of the GENIUS portal Roberto Barbera
>catlett> > >>><roberto.barbera at ct.infn.it>
>https://genius.ct.infn.it/.
>catlett> > >We have used
>catlett> > >>>it extensively for traiining and (with GILDA)
>for new user community
>catlett> > >>>induction.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>What is the planned model of communication?
>What should it
>catlett> > >not clash
>catlett> > >>>with? ...
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>I vote for accept, but push on broadening, getting
>catlett> > >questions answered
>catlett> > >>>and publication plan.
>catlett> > >>>===
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Comment 2 (general):
>catlett> > >>>===
>catlett> > >>>I think we might encourage more substantial publication
>catlett> > >such as journal
>catlett> > >>>special issues so as to give greater credit to
>(academic)
>catlett> > >participants
>catlett> > >>>However in general I think we should let each
>workshop make
>catlett> > >its choice as
>catlett> > >>>"external outreach, publication and publicity"
>which should exist in
>catlett> > >>>some fashion
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>===
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Comment 3: (Satoshi)
>catlett> > >>>===
>catlett> > >>>There are several groups in AP working on
>"Science Gateway" Portals,
>catlett> > >>>including those in Japan and Korea, and those
>should be contacted.
>catlett> > >>>For example, AIST-GTRC has a PSE Builder effort, and
>catlett> > >NAREGI's WP3/6 are
>catlett> > >>>working on high-level portals interface.
>Korea's K* Grid has several
>catlett> > >>>efforts in those regard.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>Perhaps the best method is to do a call-out throught
>catlett> > >pragma, with help
>catlett> > >>>from Peter Artzburger @ San Diego. By all means it is
>catlett> > >important to make
>catlett> > >>>the intentions clear so that not all the Grid
>portals on
>catlett> > >earth will try
>catlett> > >>>to participate and ask for a time slot.
>catlett> > >>>
>catlett> > >>>---------
>catlett> > >
>catlett> > >
>catlett>
>
>Satoshi Matsuoka, Professor
>Global Scientific Information and Computing Center
> & Dept. of Mathematical and Computing Sciences
>Tokyo Institute of Technology
>Address: 2-12-1 Oo-okayama, Meguro-ku, Tokyo 152-8552 Japan
>Tel&fax: +81-3-5734-3876 E-mail: matsu at acm.org,
>matsu at is.titech.ac.jp
>
>
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