On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 4:49 AM Karl wrote:

We need communication channels that include all the people affected by decisions. This is very easy to do, and we have studied how for decades.

What also came out, is that we have many many solutions to pretty much any problem. If there is a hard problem, there is almost certainly somebody who knows a quick solution to it, and somebody else who knows a lot about many things that underly it. We are incredibly resourceful and smart. We just need to be able to communicate.

[extra] On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 5:03 AM Karl wrote:

I liked a decision making way called spokescouncil, which has many different variants. Here's a link from google: https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/spokescouncil . These approaches

Reviewing with what I know now, it's pretty obvious the situation would focus on the spokes and disrupt their communication channels. You could counter that by providing an avenue for _anybody_ at _any time_ to veto a past decision. You'd want to provide the avenue at places likely to be impacted by the decision. This is in case people weren't included in a forthright manner, which often happens when group members don't know each other well.

are continuously evolving to handle the various issues they can encounter when used in more tense situations. People familiar with such things, in different areas, will know more. Since then I've discovered Convergent Facilitation: http://nvctraining.com/media/_2018/MK/convergent-facilitation/index.html . Convergent Facilitation looks very effective but has an obvious

Here's the actual website: https://convergentfacilitation.org/ . During Covid the training group I bumped into put out a free helpline for facilitators to call in for advice with any issues they were having in their meetings.

issue where it puts only a handful of people in charge of directing the meeting.

The fact that it has this attribute is strange. In Occupy we repeatedly saw discussion facilitators suffer from problems and have to leave. I infer that in other situations that isn't as common. Another big one that's been flying around is sociocracy. Don't know much about that myself, looks promising. And of course the community and indigenous folk of the various areas solved all these problems very long ago, with their own parts of the communication issues.

In Occupy we finally collaborated for a few months. We welcomed the powerholders to collaborate too, but instead of joining us, they seemed to send people to spy on us and use what they learned to further harm such efforts.

The truth is that there's really no boogey-men up there. It's a Wizard of Oz scenario, chaps. Nothing more. It talks big and carries a big stick though, so you have to watch for that.

Nowadays, there are a number of for example economic policies, that not only aid these wealthy people in controlling the planet, but also trend towards continuing the situation, even if they die, by replacing them with other people who emerge with similar values.

This seems to be a result of apathy amidst the intelligensia. If they had more Truth rather than opinions, they'd have plenty of power to fix things. For example, gasoline and other natural resources should be taxed at every level of government so that the value of it goes back to the people. There's about $85/gal or more of value ($1/octane/gal) in each gallon. Go measure it and compare it to what a healthy, able-bodied person would consider that work to be worth if used on something that advanced mankind. A kilowatt-hour is also worth about $50/kwh. Since people are presumed to make value out of the consumption of either, you can halve these figures for retail price. This one issue alone saves 50% of your problems. Another 40% is fixed by fixing your voting model (allowing yes and no votes) and having smaller terms for lower-level governments so that the average person feels empowered to be a leader of their government. See "fractional voting" on the wiki at hackerspaces.org. You may have to look under "everything" on the search page because queer poliltics has co-opted the movement for a creative economy through hackerspaces and buried it.

People who used to participate in Occupy have been through a lot in the aftermath, and have trouble reconnecting with their original effort, and might be scared to do so. But we also hold in our minds how wonderful it was, and yearn to have these discussions again. People who identify as activists, especially the jaded ones, have all experienced these things. There are thousands and thousands of us, and we all have some different part of the visceral experience of the global corruption and deafness.

I know what you're talking about. I participated in NYC and in Santa Fe occupy. You know what that "visceral feeling" is? That you're doing something for this world besides being a dumbass consumer. What they got wrong is that the issue of GOD couldn't just be swept under the rug. 100% of queer politics was gaytheist, so went compeltely in opposition to that other pov, which to millions has more proof than monkeys. Unfortunately, that pov also made the powers that hold things above in the all-seeing-eye, so nothing got accomplished, practically. Lesson learned, hopefully: that without Truth, everything loses power, to the forces of evolution, you might say. Anyway, still here in the ashes with the Phoenix. Marcos

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 11:25 AM \0xDynamite wrote: <snip>

...

fix things. For example, gasoline and other natural resources should

Here you're introducing a personal preference strategy. This reduces how many people agree with you, because other people may have other preference strategies. What seems most relevant to me here is that taxation choices are not honoring people's needs, and that it is easy to solve the natural resources problems.

...

be taxed at every level of government so that the value of it goes back to the people. There's about $85/gal or more of value ($1/octane/gal) in each gallon. Go measure it and compare it to what

Rereading, I'm more clearheaded and able to understand what you're saying better. That's a briliiant idea that would help things. The fuel lobbyists would fight it. We should add it to a list of good ideas and ram them all through all at once. It's easy to make new laws if it's valuable to do.

...

a healthy, able-bodied person would consider that work to be worth if used on something that advanced mankind. A kilowatt-hour is also worth about $50/kwh. Since people are presumed to make value out of

The word "worth" here is supporting the economic system. Something's

Oh no, I was trained to argue with people. I am saddened. You can totally talk about worth!

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:12:02 -0500 Karl wrote:

The people who live in oppressive regimes also want aid, I believe.

what do you mean by oppresive regimes? Please list them.

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:25 PM Karl wrote:

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:24 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:12:02 -0500 Karl wrote:

...

The people who live in oppressive regimes also want aid, I believe.

what do you mean by oppresive regimes? Please list them.

I don't know enough about them to make a list. It sounds like you know a lot about them?

I'm inferring that an oppressive regime is a government with a single leader, and making a list of them would mean listing every dictator.

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:28 PM Karl wrote:

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:27 PM Karl wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:25 PM Karl wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:24 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:12:02 -0500 Karl wrote:

...

The people who live in oppressive regimes also want aid, I believe.

what do you mean by oppresive regimes? Please list them.

I don't know enough about them to make a list. It sounds like you know a lot about them?

I'm inferring that an oppressive regime is a government with a single leader, and making a list of them would mean listing every dictator.

I looked this up and it sounds like an oppressive regime is synonymous with a government, punk.

To speak plainly, I have experienced forceful mind control near difficulties with the united states government, and it's hard for me to talk and think about this.

I'll reply as I read, Marxos, On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 12:51 PM \0xDynamite wrote:

...

...

I looked this up and it sounds like an oppressive regime is synonymous with a government, punk.

To speak plainly, I have experienced forceful mind control near difficulties with the united states government, and it's hard for me to talk and think about this.

Karl, it sounds like you might be a "mental body" (what some have called "bots") in the system. A mental body is a human potential living inside a giant shibboleth -- a machine made and held by a shard of GOD. They are made by the beliefs of

mankind that there are

actually people running the world. You don't

GOD is not a person? The universe is not a foul? need therapy, you just

have to follow one of the stable Institutions that exist. This

Well, in general we need to preserve deprogramming of victims of severe abuse, when the victims desire this. usually means either the State (the law), the Church (believe in

Jesus), Academia (believe in children or science), or the Corporation (usually already assigned as an employee).

Alternatively, you can

believe in me, "Marcos", who got to the top of

I believe in all of these, in different ways each. I've been heavily exposed to dislike of corporations, and I have no money, so Corp would make sense for me, but while I'm a vivisected bot I'm likely to forget my spirit more during it. this world with the

crown of Man/Adam for the predicted planetary shift. Don't look to

Topness, Man. therapists to tell you these things, because most of them don't have

sufficient experience in life to be guiding anyone.

Who does?

Cheers!

=) I said many other things, but really wanted to be coding instead of saying them. I hope you are well.

\0xD, aka Marxos.

K

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:18 PM Karl wrote:

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:18 PM Karl wrote:

...

I'll reply as I read, Marxos,

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 12:51 PM \0xDynamite wrote:

...

...

...

I looked this up and it sounds like an oppressive regime is synonymous with a government, punk.

To speak plainly, I have experienced forceful mind control near difficulties with the united states government, and it's hard for me to talk and think about this.

Karl, it sounds like you might be a "mental body" (what some have called "bots") in the system. A mental body is a human potential living inside a giant shibboleth -- a machine made and held by a shard of GOD. They are made by the beliefs of

mankind that there are

...

actually people running the world. You don't

You mean I'm a logic zombie. Punk knows about this. Logic zombies have souls deep underneath but we try to grow them using our machines instead of our hearts.

...

GOD is not a person? The universe is not a foul?

Zenaan, this was an attempt to say "soul".

...

need therapy, you just

...

have to follow one of the stable Institutions that exist. This

Well, in general we need to preserve deprogramming of victims of severe abuse, when the victims desire this.

usually means either the State (the law), the Church (believe in

...

Jesus), Academia (believe in children or science), or the Corporation (usually already assigned as an employee).

Alternatively, you can

...

believe in me, "Marcos", who got to the top of

I believe in all of these, in different ways each. I've been heavily exposed to dislike of corporations, and I have no money, so Corp would make sense for me, but while I'm a vivisected bot I'm likely to forget my spirit more during it.

this world with the

...

crown of Man/Adam for the predicted planetary shift. Don't look to

Topness, Man.

therapists to tell you these things, because most of them don't have

...

sufficient experience in life to be guiding anyone.

Who does?

...

Cheers!

=) I said many other things, but really wanted to be coding instead of saying them. I hope you are well.

...

\0xD, aka Marxos.

K

...

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:28 PM Karl wrote:

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:27 PM Karl wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:18 PM Karl wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:18 PM Karl wrote:

...

I'll reply as I read, Marxos,

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 12:51 PM \0xDynamite wrote:

...

...

> I looked this up and it sounds like an oppressive regime is synonymous > with a government, punk.

To speak plainly, I have experienced forceful mind control near difficulties with the united states government, and it's hard for me to talk and think about this.

Karl, it sounds like you might be a "mental body" (what some have called "bots") in the system. A mental body is a human potential living inside a giant shibboleth -- a machine made and held by a shard of GOD. They are made by the beliefs of

mankind that there are

...

actually people running the world. You don't

You mean I'm a logic zombie. Punk knows about this. Logic zombies have souls deep underneath but we try to grow them using our machines instead of our hearts.

...

...

GOD is not a person? The universe is not a foul?

Zenaan, this was an attempt to say "soul".

...

need therapy, you just

...

have to follow one of the stable Institutions that exist. This

Well, in general we need to preserve deprogramming of victims of severe abuse, when the victims desire this.

usually means either the State (the law), the Church (believe in

...

Jesus), Academia (believe in children

I was given academia when this happened, if it matters.

or science), or the Corporation

...

...

...

...

(usually already assigned as an employee).

Alternatively, you can

...

believe in me, "Marcos", who got to the top of

But obviously I believe in you way more than I believe in science or children, since we are talking. You also sound like you can learn faster than the other options.

...

...

...

I believe in all of these, in different ways each. I've been heavily exposed to dislike of corporations, and I have no money, so Corp would make sense for me, but while I'm a vivisected bot I'm likely to forget my spirit more during it.

this world with the

...

crown of Man/Adam for the predicted planetary shift. Don't look to

Topness, Man.

therapists to tell you these things, because most of them don't have

...

sufficient experience in life to be guiding anyone.

Who does?

...

Cheers!

=) I said many other things, but really wanted to be coding instead of saying them. I hope you are well.

...

\0xD, aka Marxos.

K

...

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 1:32 PM \0xDynamite wrote:

...

...

...

To speak plainly, I have experienced forceful mind control near difficulties with the united states government, and it's hard for me to talk and think about this.

Karl, it sounds like you might be a "mental body" (what some have called "bots") in the system. A mental body is a human potential living inside a giant shibboleth -- a machine made and held by a shard of GOD. They are made by the beliefs of

mankind that there are actually people running the world. You don't

GOD is not a person? The universe is not a foul?

To the christians, jesus is god, but that bullshit ran out during the early middle ages. No, the proper understanding of GOD (and I speak with the authority of the prophesy of the Jews for the Messiach) is as both a concrete thing and an abstraction, both organic and inorganic, emcompassing all-that-is. It has approximately 10 dimensions and his

This is pretty much my belief around god except I believe that they are female. This is a hacker list with many subscribers. human form got lost during the events of the Flood. It may or may not

I've never heard that story. At least we still have these extremes of human skin color, showing different possibilities there. have resurfaced in the modern era, but without knowledge of itself.

This is why the NAME was important: it continues to hold the singularity of it all, yet there are at least 8 different faces or shards.

I'm curious if the name you know of has been preserved. (monologue: I'm not sure how to get myself back to my work. Maybe it was confusing, the idea of multitasking while hand-sending transactions that needed so much time to confirm.)

...

Well, in general we need to preserve deprogramming of victims of severe abuse, when the victims desire this.

Yeah, sure, but how are you going to do this without knowing if you're merely being re-programmed to some new "god"? Many, for example, use the term "science" as a god-like word that squelches any debate.

That's cruel and common. I probably hold the habit.

So you know, when I looked for sadistic ritual abuse in history, I mostly found references to so-called god cults. It's pretty obvious. I know God wouldn't torture me so intensely I can't learn from it, or even think of it without freaking out.

...

usually means either the State (the law), the Church (believe in

...

Jesus), Academia (believe in children or science), or the Corporation (usually already assigned as an employee).

Alternatively, you can believe in me, "Marcos", who got to the top of

I believe in all of these, in different ways each. I've been heavily exposed to dislike of corporations, and I have no money, so Corp would make sense for me, but while I'm a vivisected bot I'm likely to forget my spirit more during it.

You don't need to dislike corporations, since most of them are simply constructs, designed to serve Man and preserve profit over loss. There really aren't any big, greedy, folks --

I'm one. I took a class in school on economics, where they lied to me that human behavior trends towards selfishness, saying that Keynes said this, so it is so. After taking this class, I know to be greedy. most of the ideas of

people getting multi-million dollar salaries arises from the imagination of christians who get befuddled on "how anybody could make such success!". Since they are in a machine

I think I hear from your frustrated-sounding possible-errors that you need help with something undiscussed. they can be trained --

but if you get inside of one: be forewarned that the system doesn't know how to manage much except by power displays, mock demonstrations of how they "hold the reigns here". So learn

Oh man! For three years now! My boss grins at you. When will you take his implant out of his brain? your shit and get on top

of that.

So: I can change it. It causes brain damage to do so. It picks from the available options in a way that is incredibly hard to predict. It's analogous to using an emergency habit to stop everything going on.

...

this world with the

...

crown of Man/Adam for the predicted planetary shift. Don't look to

Topness, Man.

Sweeet.

Sugar is a way to control you, not the top.

...

therapists to tell you these things, because most of them don't have

...

sufficient experience in life to be guiding anyone.

Who does?

Yours truly, friend. Right here on cypherpunks. Born and bread in the Real World, the US of A.

Talking is nice but I'd rather remember. What do I do to suffer less? To pursue things I love? And to protect my friend Marxos?

Marxos

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 11:51:22 -0600 "\\0xDynamite" wrote:

you just have to follow one of the stable Institutions that exist. This usually means either the State (the law), the Church (believe in Jesus), Academia (believe in children or science), or the Corporation (usually already assigned as an employee).

I was waiting for Karl to shred that to pieces, or at least protest somewhat but I guess Karl is too polite. So I'll have to do it. Jakobo moishe rosenblitt has listed the four forces of tyranny and evil and tried to presented them as 'good'. The question then is, why would such an ultra-far-right conservative turd like jakobo moishe rosenblitt bother posting in a supposedly 'anarchistic' or 'libertarian' mailing list?

Alternatively, you can believe in me, "Marcos",

that might have a been a joke...

the proper understanding of GOD (and I speak with the authority of the prophesy of the Jews for the Messiach)

so why isn't jakobo moishe rosenblitt spewing his nazi-jew mental derangement in a more suitable enviroment?

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 14:34:58 -0500 Karl wrote:

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so why isn't jakobo moishe rosenblitt spewing his nazi-jew mental derangement in a more suitable enviroment?

I could ask you the same, coder.

yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense. Or trumpofascist propaganda like donald, grarpamp and harkness. Or technofascist propaganda like jim bell. Or calling for the US-military-musk-NSA non-human criminals to attack iran, north korea, and other 'oppresive regimes' like jim bell. Or even sicker war propaganda like professor-turd's nuke-japan vomits. Or promoting the global, wholly-fascist, flu farce like jim bell and many others. Et cetera. So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this list is, and further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 08:41:14 -0500 Karl wrote:

I don't know how to stop posting right now.

On 12/26/20, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 14:34:58 -0500 Karl wrote:

...

...

so why isn't jakobo moishe rosenblitt spewing his nazi-jew mental derangement in a more suitable enviroment?

I could ask you the same, coder.

yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense. Or trumpofascist propaganda like donald, grarpamp and harkness. Or technofascist propaganda like jim bell. Or calling for the US-military-musk-NSA non-human criminals to attack iran, north korea, and other 'oppresive regimes' like jim bell. Or even sicker war propaganda like professor-turd's nuke-japan vomits. Or promoting the global, wholly-fascist, flu farce like jim bell and many others. Et cetera.

Obviously you are.

So quote me saying anything that defends the western political-economic powers in any shape or form. FYI, unlike any of the other posters here, I've done my homework regarding liberal political philosophy and I can defend it. The other posters however are either outright fascists or fake 'libertarian' posers.

...

So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this list is, and further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.

Why are we posting here? You and I are posting here as part of a brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

You and I are different persons, and are doing different things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.

brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your role playing with reality.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 15:06:37 -0500 Karl wrote:

...

So quote me saying anything that defends the western political-economic powers in any shape or form.

here:

...

...

...

yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense. Or

you're spewing conflict,

Again, provide quotations. Whatever conflict there is comes from the fake libertarians/true technocrats/outright agents. I gave pretty concrete examples of the garbage they post, you ignored them.

turning people against each other, which is how my nation keeps the status quo.

So you cannot provide evidence showing that I promote evil and now you're just outright lying. The 'conflict' you want to avoid entails calling out the frauds on this list. I guess you want the frauds to be protected from 'conflict'? As to the way your nation keeps the status quo, they do it by commiting an endless string of all possible crimes from theft to mass murder to anything inbetween. And to state the obvious, I'm not doing anything of the sort. Last but not least, you're comparing me with the US nazi government? What is wrong with you.

...

FYI, unlike any of the other posters here, I've done my homework regarding liberal political philosophy and I can defend it. The other posters however are either outright fascists or fake 'libertarian' posers.

it's rough to have to say everything backwards. nobody ever understands you.

Hard to know what you mean. The frauds on this list understand me well.

...

...

...

So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this list is, and further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.

Why are we posting here? You and I are posting here as part of a brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

You and I are different persons, and are doing different things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.

With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know.

you meant to type "you can* know"? Regardless, the claim that 'we' are both part of a 'brainwashing program' is sheer nonsense. If you want to claim that YOU are part of such a program, feel free, but don't speak for me.

I'd force myself to forget if I did.

...

...

brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your role playing with reality.

Reality is way worse, and you know it.

Another obscure remark.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 06:40:18 -0500 Karl wrote:

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 9:37 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 15:06:37 -0500 Karl wrote:

...

...

So quote me saying anything that defends the western

political-economic powers in any shape or form.

here:

...

...

...

yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense.

Or

...

you're spewing conflict,

Again, provide quotations.

Casting people as evil is an American strategy of ignoring people different from Americans,

yes, except I'm not a US cunt. And please stop referring to the US nation-state as 'america' - that's the name of the continent.

so you can sell the American way as freedom and luxury without caring whom it hurts.

yes, that's what US nazis do. Not me. I'm not 'casting' people as evil. I am pointing out they ARE actually evil. Two completely different things.

"Nazi", which you just said with accusation, is a common enemy image taught in america.

Indeed, and I'm using it to underscode the fact that it is the US cunts who are the real nazis.

"Jew" is held by a smaller group as an enemy image in america.

the idea that jews are poor blameless victims is another part of your US cunt propaganda and so I'm setting the record straight. Yet another thing that upsets you because you are on the enemies-of-freedom side.

"Nonsense" is a thought-stopping word used in American media in ways that prevent people from listening to others.

These things don't mean you're trying to defend america, of course. They mean you end up doing so.

Your reasoning is NONSENSE. I. e. logically flawed. I am telling the truth whereas the US cunts are lying. Your problem is that you're pretending to be unable to tell apart truth and lies. Also the claim that I'm defeding the US is just...insane. Or a blatant lie. Doubly ridiculous because your story is that I'm defending the US because I'm too stupid to understand what I'm doing. Ha ha.

...

Whatever conflict there is comes from the fake libertarians/true

"Fake" : disregards expressions of others

lawl. It is a description. Fake libertarians. If you don't know them then you should do your homework and shut the fuck up before you know what you're talking about. Unless you are trying to defend fake libertarians of course. Which is what you are de facto doing.

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technocrats/outright agents. I gave pretty

"Agents": an enemy image held on this list

There obviously are outright agents on this list. You apparently confessed being a former(...) one. And anybody who promotes the interest of govcorp whether directly paid by govcorp or not is a propaganda agent of govcorp. You ARE what you do.

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concrete examples of the garbage they post,

" garbage": an American media term causing people to ignore the expressions of others

Dude. You crossed that line more than once. Enough.

...

showing that I promote evil and now you're

Here I see you trying to share honestly with me, but it's kind of over my head because of my short attention span and naive trust =/

uh oh. 'naive trust'. And now you think you can further take me for an idiot? How arrogantly 'american' of you.

I want to connect with you and I don't know how.

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just outright lying. The 'conflict' you want to

You seem to understand better than me that because behavior is obvious, NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY LIE.

what

...

avoid entails calling out the frauds on this list. I guess you want the frauds to be protected from 'conflict'?

Everybody is doing this. All of us. You need protection the most here, because I tried to pin this murder on you.

what

As to the way your nation keeps the status quo, they do it by

...

commiting an endless string of all possible crimes from theft to mass murder to anything inbetween.

"Mass murder? You don't murder your family members to make profit! Oh! Well I guess I'll be coming out on top, then." Stop supporting our criminal decadence by helping us compete in our community wargames.

what

And to state the obvious, I'm not doing anything of the sort. Last but not

...

least, you're comparing me with the US nazi government? What is wrong with you.

I take such expressions seriously. Gotta get off this list.

so it seems

...

Hard to know what you mean. The frauds on this list understand me well.

When I was severely coerced

BY WHO. Stop playing crazy and speak clearly or shut the fuck up.

I was forced to speak backwards and didn't understand it. Then I was only able to talk about my torture in the language I was forced to learn, which denied it, and I got no help.

I don't understand frauds.

what? You don't understand that there are people who say they are 'libertarians' but are actually not? What part you don't understand about that?

What you say doesn't make literal sense to me, but you saying that it is the only way to talk was how my torturers talked.

what

...

...

...

...

So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this

list is, and

...

...

further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.

Why are we posting here? You and I are posting here as part of a brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

You and I are different persons, and are doing different things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.

With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know.

you meant to type "you can* know"?

No. Brainwashing teaches you not to know.

So this sentece "With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know" makes no sense. But never mind, your overall anti-blame, pro-lies-and-propaganda stance is pretty clear.

Regardless, the claim that 'we' are both part of a 'brainwashing program'

...

is sheer nonsense. If you want to claim that YOU are

You're posting obsessively to a technofascist arpanet list, but I suppose you are more deprogramming us than brainwashing us =)

yes a technonafascist arpanet list posing a something else. A fraud.

Really it's one of things they do to targeted communities.

And you know that because you worked for 'them'?

Expose them to intensely different values while suppressing people that " straddle the lines" value-wise, which disrupts the community handling the budding conflict.

part of such a program, feel free, but don't speak for me.

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Just speaking for the spirit of America that we forced down your throat.

lawl. Don't worry, you are a complete failure at forcing the 'spirit' of US cunts on me.

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I'd force myself to forget if I did.

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brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your role playing with reality.

Reality is way worse, and you know it.

Another obscure remark.

Same to you.

yeah right.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 15:56:40 -0500 Karl wrote:

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 3:29 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

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yes, that's what US nazis do. Not me. I'm not 'casting' people as evil. I am pointing out they ARE actually evil. Two completely different things.

Nah, that's just the difference between the language you're speaking and the one I am. I prefer to always speak knowing nobody is evil. Helps a lot when I'm wrong about who might be.

Sorry that's not a difference in language but a difference in core philosophy. You're claiming you know nobody is evil, so 1)you think you're omniscient(which is crazy) and 2)are ignoring reality, because evil is plain to see around you. So what you actually do is *wrongly assume* some people are innocent IGNORING the plain evidence to the contrary. And let me repeat : I am not 'casting' i.e. wrongfully accusing people of being evil or misrepresenting them as evil. They ARE evil.

Talking about people being evil _other_ than the powerholders, appears to be a culture that is spread to prevent revolution.

The powerholders are not the only evil people out there. Their supporters are evil too. And I don't see at all how my views can 'prevent revolution'.

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"Nazi", which you just said with accusation, is a common enemy image taught in america.

Indeed, and I'm using it to underscode the fact that it is the US cunts who are the real nazis.

I think you are simply reinforcing my point.

Right back at you.

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"Jew" is held by a smaller group as an enemy image in america.

the idea that jews are poor blameless victims is another part of your US cunt propaganda and so I'm setting the record straight. Yet another thing that upsets you because you are on the enemies-of-freedom side.

You still preach conflict needlessly.

You keep doing what you've been doing from the start. Siding with criminals because of a baseless 'presumption of innocence'. And notice the irony here. You fail to make a rational argument so you just cause more 'conflict'.

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"Nonsense" is a thought-stopping word used in American media in ways that prevent people from listening to others.

These things don't mean you're trying to defend america, of course. They mean you end up doing so.

Your reasoning is NONSENSE. I. e. logically flawed. I am telling the truth whereas the US cunts are lying. Your problem is that you're pretending to be unable to tell apart truth and lies.

Having been in multiple anarchist camps in the USA and seen them fall,it is pretty obvious that sowing conflict is how peaceful communities are disrupted.

From what I've seen through the arpanet there are no anarchists in the US. Only posers. And the few actual anarchists that might exist are probably in jail.

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Also the claim that I'm defeding the US is just...insane. Or a blatant lie. Doubly ridiculous because your story is that I'm defending the US because I'm too stupid to understand what I'm doing. Ha ha.

Nah, I don't quite mean these things. The way you take the only stuff we can hear, and twist it to productively counter what we are saying, is great, and keeps you safe. It's better if you can do it without amplifying the conflict, which quickly gets you censored in some way.

I take it the way you said it. You think I don't know what I'm doing.

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"Fake" : disregards expressions of others

lawl. It is a description. Fake libertarians. If you don't know them then you should do your homework and shut the fuck up before you know what you're talking about. Unless you are trying to defend fake libertarians of course. Which is what you are de facto doing.

I might say "new kinds of libertarians" rather than "fake libertarians"

so you're bragging about lying? Who are you? The chief editor of the Universal Newspeak Dictionary? Fake libertarians are not fake and war is peace. Look! This is not murder! This a New and Improved Kind of Argument. Et cetera.

if I wanted to produce an atmosphere where people work together to accomplish things.

If you are 'working' with a bunch of fake libertarians the only thing you will accomplish is more tyranny. So at this point there are two options : either you're openly admiting that you're on evil's side, or you just say whatever NONSENSE crosses your mind, to 'win' the argument.

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technocrats/outright agents. I gave pretty

"Agents": an enemy image held on this list

There obviously are outright agents on this list. You apparently confessed being a former(...) one. And anybody who promotes the interest of govcorp whether directly paid by govcorp or not is a propaganda agent of govcorp. You ARE what you do.

I don't care that I am at fault for all the problems. Nor do I care if people think others are. I care what we do next. It is obvious that we are all being turned against each other. It is unproductive to act on it.

I'm not 'being turned' against fake libertarians. I am choosing of my own free will to be against those assholes.

As soon as you waste time turning us against somebody again, you are not helping anything get done.

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concrete examples of the garbage they post,

" garbage": an American media term causing people to ignore the expressions of others

Dude. You crossed that line more than once. Enough.

do you mean "America" or "term causing divisiveness" or ...?

Yes, I mean your claim that I'm using 'divisiveness causing terms', and further that I get them from US 'culture'. I just used plain coloquial terms. Also your assumption that divisiveness is bad is plainly wrong. I certainly want a DIVISION between truth and lies, between people who want freedom and technofascists (like jim bell), between people who want freedom and people who support trump, etc.

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showing that I promote evil and now you're

Here I see you trying to share honestly with me, but it's kind of over my head because of my short attention span and naive trust =/

uh oh. 'naive trust'. And now you think you can further take me for an idiot? How arrogantly 'american' of you.

So, if you think I believe I am taking you for an idiot, you don't understand what I am saying.

Why do you respond to the phrase "naive trust"?

Because I don't think you are naively trusting anything. I don't think you are naive, at all. If I were to claim that "I'm extremely polite", you'd laugh at me, no? Same thing here.

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I want to connect with you and I don't know how. I'm also not thinking about what I write too much, and have very poor relation skills.

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just outright lying. The 'conflict' you want to

You seem to understand better than me that because behavior is obvious, NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY LIE.

what

It's pretty obvious I knocked over the flowers, because the flowers are knocked over, there's dirt on my hands, I'm acting embarrassed, my boot prints are near them, I'm the only clumsy person in the community, and 3 people who tend the flowers chuckled when I said "I didn't knock over the flowers." When I said this, what I was literally saying was, "I'm scared and embarrassed about knocking over the flowers, and I don't trust you guys well enough yet to say it straight" and many more similar things. But many people will be confused unless it's said straight eventually.

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avoid entails calling out the frauds on this list. I guess you want the frauds to be protected from 'conflict'?

Everybody is doing this. All of us. You need protection the most here, because I tried to pin this murder on you.

what

ehh sounds like i took this monologue of mine with you too far.

Yes. Your side of the discussion is more of a monologue. Your position can't be rationally defended so you just ignore the objections to it.

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As to the way your nation keeps the status quo, they do it by

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commiting an endless string of all possible crimes from theft to mass murder to anything inbetween.

"Mass murder? You don't murder your family members to make profit! Oh! Well I guess I'll be coming out on top, then." Stop supporting our criminal decadence by helping us compete in our community wargames.

what

skipping this one cause you sound taxed.

Still, at the very beginning you said that the status quo is maintened using whatever 'divisive technique' you accuse me of using on this list. Your claim was and is false, I showed that to be the case, and you just carried on, without ever acknowledging you were wrong. So again, the power of govcorp is maintened by real crimes on a planetary scale, not by pointing at the division between good and evil in a mailing list.

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And to state the obvious, I'm not doing anything of the sort. Last but not

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least, you're comparing me with the US nazi government? What is wrong with you.

I take such expressions seriously. Gotta get off this list.

so it seems

it's hard to get off this list =( but i want to go back to supporting you.

You can start supporting me at any time. So far you've just attacked me. And failed =)

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Hard to know what you mean. The frauds on this list understand me well.

When I was severely coerced

BY WHO. Stop playing crazy and speak clearly or shut the fuck up.

I DON'T KNOW. Who the fuck tells their victims how to identify them to authorities.

Ok, so if you were 'anonymously' coerced, then how was it done? You were sent messages saying "do this, or else..." ?

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I was forced to speak backwards and didn't understand it. Then I was only able to talk about my torture in the language I was forced to learn, which denied it, and I got no help.

I don't understand frauds.

what? You don't understand that there are people who say they are 'libertarians' but are actually not? What part you don't understand about that?

I've always done the prefer-simple-truth-and-trust thing. People tended to stop lying to me cause i would just give them trust, and I never really learned about lying in much depth.

OK so you meet a guy who says he's a libertarian and you 'trust' him. When you 'trust' him the guy confess that he's actually a US mercenary and that he murders children for fun. Now what? You don't understand that the guy pretends to be something he is not?

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What you say doesn't make literal sense to me, but you saying that it is the only way to talk was how my torturers talked.

what

holding off on replying to this cause of the number of "what"s. we're coming from pretty different assumptions, and i was expecting you to infer a lot. i don't know what yours are, either.

Yes. I think you just keep avoiding the main issue and going off in tangents.

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So this sentece "With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know" makes no sense. But never mind, your overall anti-blame, pro-lies-and-propaganda stance is pretty clear.

I thought I just explained that sentence.

When you get brainwashed, they teach you to have traumatic flashbacks when you think about things that could stop what you are trained to do. I stay unaware of some things I do.

Maybe you should explain what is this brainwashing you're refering to? I never heard about people being 'taught to have traumatic flashbacks'. I obviously do know about being part of some pseudo 'culture' and parroting whatever garbage other people around you parrot, and I'd describe that as a sort of brainwashing, or what fascists call 'education'. But if you're talking about a more specific kind of brainwashing, some 1984-like thing, then you should be more explicit.

But I was just referring to the bits of USA culture that you happen to hold and continuously express. It was probably kinda mean for me to talk as if we were conspiracy-buddies.

Oh, ok. But by now you know that US 'culture' is pretty much non-existent, and so your brainwashing shouldn't have any effect on you anymore?

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Regardless, the claim that 'we' are both part of a 'brainwashing program'

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is sheer nonsense. If you want to claim that YOU are

You're posting obsessively to a technofascist arpanet list, but I suppose you are more deprogramming us than brainwashing us =)

yes a technonafascist arpanet list posing a something else. A fraud.

So what are you doing here / what is the list about for you?

I'm waiting for the real libertarians to join.

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Really it's one of things they do to targeted communities.

And you know that because you worked for 'them'?

Because I've been in a small number of targeted communities through their collapse.

And you think they collapsed because they were 'disrupted' by govt agents...while also claiming you know that nobody is evil? Here's a somewhat different explanation. They collapsed because people didn't agree on what to do, because they wanted different things. And yes, some of the members (or the majority) might have been PRETENDING to be something they were not.

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Just speaking for the spirit of America that we forced down your throat.

lawl. Don't worry, you are a complete failure at forcing the 'spirit' of US cunts on me.

You have our demon, and I tried to explain it to you a little. It doesn't die so long as you ride it around. But I'm riding too.

I already refuted that. The US demon is the REAL WORLD actions(crimes) of millions of US govcorp employees. And I have no part in that. The only US influence I acknowledge is Spooner. And only to the degree that 'he agrees with me'. https://www.lysanderspooner.org/works

Person A: "fuck you! stop doing your stupid stuff!" Person B: "fuck you too!"

Person A: "hey man, you seem really cool. I get really hurt when that stupid stuff happens, though." Person B: "y'know I just do that stuff cause I'm angry ..."

which of the above two interactions do you see yourself participating in?

none of the above.

What I'm saying, is that I don't understand what you are about. Your remarks seem very obscure to me.

well, I think my views on fake libertarians are rather clear. Example : jim bell, his patents, and his crony capitalist hero musk.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:04:43 -0500 Karl wrote:

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 6:21 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

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Sorry that's not a difference in language but a difference in core philosophy.

Sounds like we have different philosophies on what to call a language.

No. Sounds like you're being evasive and ignoring the plain statements I make.

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You're claiming you know nobody is evil, so 1)you think you're omniscient(which is crazy) and 2)are ignoring reality, because evil is plain to see around you.

No, I just have a different core philosophy from how you are speaking. Like most things, what is evil is an _opinion_,

Ok, so now you're an amoralist, and this is game over for you Karl. In the real world morality is not a matter of 'opinion'.

so you don't have to be omniscient to believe nobody is. Everybody has different opinions.

meaningless handwaving.

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So what you actually do is *wrongly assume* some people are innocent IGNORING the plain evidence to the contrary.

I just use a different definition of innocence, where everybody fits mine.

so you have your own newspeak that only you understand, and that is detached from reality.

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And let me repeat : I am not 'casting' i.e. wrongfully accusing people of being evil or misrepresenting them as evil. They ARE evil.

It sounds like you believe in your opinion very strongly, and would like others to also hold it?

Is that an opinion you have?

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Talking about people being evil _other_ than the powerholders, appears to be a culture that is spread to prevent revolution.

The powerholders are not the only evil people out there. Their supporters are evil too. And I don't see at all how my views can 'prevent revolution'.

When you deride possible allies as evil, you could be preventing an alliance with them.

yes thank you for your advice. I mean, your opinion.

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"Nazi", which you just said with accusation, is a common enemy image taught in america.

Indeed, and I'm using it to underscode the fact that it is the US cunts who are the real nazis.

I think you are simply reinforcing my point.

Right back at you.

Anyway, USAians don't respond well to attack. They get defensive and drop bombs. I'm not sure the message will be heard well over here, but I understand other countries hold nazis as evil, too.

looks like you have attack and defense mixed up. Which is typical of US subjects and amoralists.

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You keep doing what you've been doing from the start. Siding with criminals because of a baseless 'presumption of innocence'. And notice the irony here. You fail to make a rational argument so you just cause more 'conflict'.

I'm not sure of all the things you say here ... I'm on a different page from you; I don't see that they are true. But maybe I'll apologise for accusing you. Do you feel you are preaching conflict?

I 'feel' like you've reached troll level Karl.

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From what I've seen through the arpanet there are no anarchists in the US. Only posers. And the few actual anarchists that might exist are probably in jail.

Eh you probably used google. Anarchists don't have a lot of advertisement dollars to get their websites up high on the search results.

I didnt use google, so you're wrong. Again.

Yeah they're mostly in jail, hiding, or homeless. There are a lot of them, though.

I don't think so. Unless "a lot" is 10 or 20.

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I take it the way you said it. You think I don't know what I'm doing.

Sounds like you do? Am I getting in the way of anything important? How does somebody who refuses to blame, help?

The only thing you've been doing here Karl is blame me. You're blaming me because in your mind(not in reality), I "preach conflict" and "speak harm". So, oops, your stupid little game is over. You're accusing me of what YOU are doing, so you're a self-refuting hypocrite, and worse, your charges are false. And to top it off, whether something is 'harm' or not, is, get this, JUST AN OPINION. According to you at least.

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Look! This is not murder! This a New and Improved Kind of Argument. Et cetera.

How about, "new people stating they are libertarians whom others state have murdered people" (which could be said much faster if we had a specific scenario in mind)?

No. The correct expression is FAKE LIBERTARIANS. And I don't need you to tell me how to distort, lie, and be a self-refuting hypocrite who wants to oppose something while pretending he also wants to avoid 'conflict'.

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if I wanted to produce an atmosphere where people work together to accomplish things.

If you are 'working' with a bunch of fake libertarians the only thing you will accomplish is more tyranny. So at this point there are two options : either you're openly admiting that you're on evil's side, or you just say whatever NONSENSE crosses your mind, to 'win' the argument.

Whaddaya say we enslave all the evil people and make them fix everything for us. I was brainwashed to enslave people, I could run with it until I realised I was doing it.

....meaningless.

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I'm not 'being turned' against fake libertarians. I am choosing of my own free will to be against those assholes.

I thought it was the "jew-nazis" or something, earlier.

Many fake libertarians are of course 'judeo-fascists' or jew-nazis. Should be obvious to anybody with half a clue about political reality.

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Yes, I mean your claim that I'm using 'divisiveness causing terms', and further that I get them from US 'culture'. I just used plain coloquial terms.

So, you came from a community that westerners desecrated the culture of, leaving residents with a language of harm, often punishing people who didn't accept it. That's every country on earth!

here again there's this allusion to 'language of harm'. People who use free speech are being BLAMED and ACCUSED of not using Karl's official and approved 'language'.

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Also your assumption that divisiveness is bad is plainly wrong. I certainly want a DIVISION between truth and lies, between people who want freedom and technofascists (like jim bell), between people who want freedom and people who support trump, etc.

Dividing concepts for clarity is good. Dividing people is bad and makes the most the powerful, most combative group win until others get tired of giving tribute and actually gang up and stop them.

People are divided by their actions. Evil people are in their own divided category.

Huh. Nobody's ever said that to me before. I've been through a lot in my life, maybe I'm not naive anymore. I do offer trust to people that I know will harm me, as a philosophy, though. It reduces the harm, usually. I do try to keep myself safe when doing that.

Sounds like manipulative nonsense. Not that I really care.

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Still, at the very beginning you said that the status quo is maintened using whatever 'divisive technique' you accuse me of using on this list. Your claim was and is false, I showed that to be the case, and you just carried on, without ever acknowledging you were wrong.

You said you "showed that to be the case"; given I disagreed with you, it makes sense that I didn't notice this. Which part do you see as doing this?

^^^^ dishonest evasiveness from Karl.

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So again, the power of govcorp is maintened by real crimes on a planetary scale, not by pointing at the division between good and evil in a mailing list.

We built a wall across our southern border the past few years, imprisoning our immigrants, who are a huge part of our professional and manual workforce, because half the country was seeing them as evil. The people in areas with few jobs voted to remove the workforce from areas distant from them, in the hope of having more jobs. [analysis missing significant data]

yes and? Is that a bunch of opinions you have?

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You can start supporting me at any time. So far you've just attacked me. And failed =)

Eh, sometimes I wonder if you might see it as friendly =)

What is it that I should see as friendly? Your baseless and self-refuting blaming? Your false charges are an objective attack.

i had to learn deniable languages. things i valued would suddenly go horribly wrong, if i didn't play along, and this would worsen if i continued resisting. i was evicted from my homes. me and my friends had permanent injuries. i'm the only person on earth with a child's bone cancer in my adult salivary gland (as of time of cancer). i freak out when i think of these things. just search for 'sadistic ritual abuse' and 'gangstalking' on the internet, you'll get the idea.

"bone cancer in my adult salivary gland" outright trolling.

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OK so you meet a guy who says he's a libertarian and you 'trust' him. When you 'trust' him the guy confess that he's actually a US mercenary and that he murders children for fun. Now what? You don't understand that the guy pretends to be something he is not?

when people come from somewhere different from you, they act different, they do things for different reasons. understanding them means having an idea of what it is like to be them, and do what they do.

empty, evasive, handwavy preaching.

you seem to act like the only way to talk is by criticizing others. you said something similar on-list ot me once, some months ago. i was forced to learn to speak that way. i'd rather die repeatedly, at this point, than insult people because i was enslaved to, without any idea of what i am accomplishing by doing it.

The only thing you've done here is try to criticize me Karl, and royally failed too. The important fact at hand is that you are a self-refuting hypocrite who criticizes people while trying to deny that he criticizes people.

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But I was just referring to the bits of USA culture that you happen to hold and continuously express. It was probably kinda mean for me to talk as if we were conspiracy-buddies.

Oh, ok. But by now you know that US 'culture' is pretty much non-existent, and so your brainwashing shouldn't have any effect on you anymore?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

It should be easy to understand. When you find out you've been lied to (which you're calling brainwashing), you stop believing the lies. You can't still claim that you're 'brainwashed'. If you were still 'brainwashed' then you wouldn't know it.

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I'm waiting for the real libertarians to join.

I don't understand. Who are these real libertarians? Is the list about libertarianism?

Of course. And your question is ridiculous. .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. collapse of governments, anarchy. Or liberalism. Now rebranded 'libertarianism'.

I don't see why the things you say are implied. If it helps, yes I hold a sense of knowledge, that somebody is not evil, while they torture and murder people.

So you're a psycho.

I had to do this to emotionally survive as a citizen of my country.

An amoralist psycho who is an accomplice of the US nazis, using the fake excuse that he 'had to do it'.

This is what disruptors and apathetic people say.

You're pretty cheeky aren't you? Keep blaming people for being 'disruptors' while ranting against 'blame'.

It's pretty easy to agree so long as lobbyists ignore you and you can keep people with rough experiences safe. Giving provides a _lot_ of capacity. You might pay for your home. We could pay _you_ to live in the community home, based on the money made by the community work.

bla bla bla - rant unrelated to anything.

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What I'm saying, is that I don't understand what you are about. Your remarks seem very obscure to me.

well, I think my views on fake libertarians are rather clear. Example : jim bell, his patents, and his crony capitalist hero musk.

Sounds like he grew up in the USA.

yeah well. Not the point. I know people who hold the same technofascist views and didn't grow up in the US cesspool.

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I don't understand. You seem to blame everybody here?

I think I made it clear who I blame and for what. Check the archives.

Too big, sir. Too big to check. It wasn't clear enough, for me to remember.

so now you're admiting you don't pay any attention to what people say. You don't remember what people told you in their previous message, or even in the current one.

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So how do you distinguish revenge and self defense?

In revenge, the other party is hurt comparable to how you were hurt. In self defense, your hurt is prevented, and the other party is hurt only if it is needed to hurt them, to not yourself be further hurt.

Ok, so defense prevents damage. Fair enough.

So, if 2 parties engage in revenge with each other, you get an escalating war.

If you break my leg and then I break your leg, we're even. There's no escalation in what you call 'revenge'. Also, what you call 'revenge' is a form of justice, although a limited one.

If 2 parties engage in self defence with each other, you get a safe community.

the wording is awkward. And my original point fully stands. There's nothing wrong with 'blame'.

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Ever heard of the flu farce? We're now living in an even more overt totalitarian dystopia because of the flu farce, the future of humanity got a lot darker overnight and people on this list are still discussing how amazing crony capitalist musk is. Priceless.

It's the same as the electricity farce,

No it isn't. There may be some parallels but they are irrelevant to what I said. So now you've ignored a very serious problem by going off on an idiotic tangent.

the shoe farce, the fridge farce, etc etc. Can you believe everybody is paying to run a 24/7 fluid compressor in their home

I don't have a fridge, go figure.

when you can preserve food effortlessly for free by drying it?

People do read what you say, but yeah we're all tiny bits of a huge species.

they read it?

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You are invoking the 'intellectual authority' of 'older survivors'(whoever/whatever they are).

Experience. Not intellect. Ask the anarchists who are not in jail, how to stay out of it. Are you one?

I wasn't talking about how to stay out of jail, but about moral philosophy.

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Tracing crimes back to their authors, that is assigning 'blame' is a very important defense mechanism.

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It's pretty obvious that everything is caused by a myriad of people, most of whom weren't trying to make it happen.

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Ok so you clearly keep trying to protect criminals.

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Yeah I'll definitely defend people wrongly suffering for crimes.

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I'm talking about actual crimes.

What's your native language? We often use 'label' words that don't reflect reality, in the USA. Where a "crime" is often something that literally breaks a law, instead of something that is immorral or whatnot. Lots of things that help people are crimes, over here.

My native language is irrelevant. I am using the word crime to mean a violation of personal rights. I am obviously NOT using the government's definion of 'crime'.

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notice that professor turd is hysterically promoting 'antiblame' with his insane denial of the existence of govcorp.

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No comment on that one eh. Because you don't want 'divisiveness'. You want the US military agent professor turd to not be 'disrupted', poor soul.

you mean PR? I don't see the thing you said being true, nor do I see it as making logical sense. Could you say something clearer instead of 'antiblame' at least? I made that word up and now you are using it.

And now you pretend to not understand your own words? Priceless. Your little game is over Karl. You blame me but you don't blame professor turd and his NUKE HIROSHIMA NAGASAKI DRESDEN 'rhetoric'. You are a little fraud Karl.

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Also, it seems to me that lies lose their power the moment you realize you were lied to so I'm not sure how you think this 'brainwashing' is still affecting you.

Okay. Punk is possibly a jerk who hasn't been through anything rough.

Really. And how does that follow from my comment?

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it's what happens to activists once they're targeted in the usa. they get forced to disrupt activist communities. usually unwittingly, but often they are overtly coerced to do this.

so you were forced to work as a US govt agent?

I dunno, nobody like overtly told me this. I don't know whether it's the government.

Ok but when you say forced you don't literally mean there was physical violence, or other threats involved.

You know what? It's none of your business. I'll give different reasons for things.

LMAO!!! You've been ranting on a public forum for months about your 'brainwashing' and what you allegedly did, but now it's 'none of my business'? Indeed, I don't really care about it, except as a means to show that your 'arguments' here are a joke.

I'll give different reasons for things.

OK, so you just candidly admited you're going to make up yet another story. Cool.

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You sound like law enforcement here, Juan.

If you mean natural law enforcement, yes. The kind of law that would take cops and turn them into minced meat.

"People are moral agents responsible for their crimes!" I have to remember "crime" means "wrong thing" to you, not "violation of a government law". Explains a lot of our miscommunication.

you finally figured that out? A bit too late tho. And it doesn't change your own self-refuting 'anti blame' hypocrisy anyway. So this is it. Evil is an 'opinion' and you thouroughly refuted yourself. Cheers.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:20:34 -0500 Karl wrote:

I typed some but lost my email. Punk, you might have to take it a little slower, for me.

Funny. Yesterday when I was writing my previous reply there was a power glitch and I lost it. So I had to re-write it today. Anyway, you can read my previous message as many times as you want. Read it slowly, and see what kind of rational comments you can make...if any.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:20:34PM -0500, Karl wrote:

I typed some but lost my email. Punk, you might have to take it a little slower, for me.

Karl, Punk only responded to things you said. If you want slower, it is up to you to type/say less things, less concepts, in your own emails. Frankly, Punk in this thread has spoken clearly, and plainly. Another trick for "slower" is to be quick to agree with things you do actually agree with (so far, you seem to treat conversations more like a game, where you appear more interested in winning points than in finding/acknowledging actual agreement - some people get tired of those games). Also it appears you use certain foundation words from our language (such as "evil"), in ways different to how the majority of people use those words, at least generally/ colloquially/ normally. It does not surprise me that you lose track, or get overwhelmed (wanting slower). To the extent you use different definitions to most people for common words, you appear to be crazy, or at least "playing crazy", or manipulative, or possibly you are attempting to cope with your own "problems" (whatever you think they are). As said, this game you play might be to you, for you, a useful coping (or survival) tool, but it seems clear that doing that does lead to communication problems, mainly for you (and by your own hand - i.e., you are the one confusing yourself, and losing track). If at some point you wish to reduce your tendency to "lose track" in your conversations, an easy suggestion is as follows: 1) Go back to using the common/normal definitions of words that other people use. 2) Find new/ different/ more accurate words, for the concepts you wish to communicate about, rather than co-opting the normal words that other people use. Doing those two things requires a little trust in others, since you might feel a little less in control since you are injecting less chaos into your conversations (with temporarily secret definitions of normal words that only you know about until you let others know the truth about the words you are using). But trust is necessary if you seek more meaningful relationships and more productive/useful conversations. (If you have difficulty finding a word that properly describes something you wish to communicate, such as your own definition of evil, consider using a combination phrase of 2 or more words.) Good luck,

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 03:06:37PM -0500, Karl wrote:

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 1:09 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

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On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 08:41:14 -0500 Karl wrote:

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I don't know how to stop posting right now.

On 12/26/20, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

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On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 14:34:58 -0500 Karl wrote:

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so why isn't jakobo moishe rosenblitt spewing his nazi-jew mental derangement in a more suitable enviroment?

I could ask you the same, coder.

yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense. Or trumpofascist propaganda like donald, grarpamp and harkness. Or technofascist propaganda like jim bell. Or calling for the US-military-musk-NSA non-human criminals to attack iran, north korea, and other 'oppresive regimes' like jim bell. Or even sicker war propaganda like professor-turd's nuke-japan vomits. Or promoting the global, wholly-fascist, flu farce like jim bell and many others. Et cetera.

Obviously you are.

So quote me saying anything that defends the western political-economic powers in any shape or form.

here:

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yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense. Or

you're spewing conflict, turning people against each other, which is how my nation keeps the status quo.

Karl, this quote you pasted of Punk, is not him "defending the western political-economic powers".

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FYI, unlike any of the other posters here, I've done my homework regarding liberal political philosophy and I can defend it. The other posters however are either outright fascists or fake 'libertarian' posers.

Karl, this quote you pasted of Punk, is also not him "defending the western political-economic powers".

it's rough to have to say everything backwards. nobody ever understands you.

When for you, reality is so painful that you often prefer and role-play being "insane", you also sometimes get caught up in that role play game, and lose track (lose the connections in the conversation, lose memory af what happened, what was said, and evidently even lose track of the meaning of something you just now copy and pasted). It might be more comfortable to you to exist in your "role play illusion", but conversation with you, from an onlooker, starts to look pointless, and ultimately a waste of our time. Punk is a hard core existentialist/ rationalist, fwiw, and so if you are going to try to challenge him as you just tried (and failed), you need to be on very solid ground if you wish to "succeed" in your challenge. If your criteria for that "success" is some other axis than "correctness" and "based in fact", then other folks will struggle to understand you, and at some point may well give up attempting to (or bothering to) communicate with you at all... which of course is another criteria of "success"...

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So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this list is, and further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.

Why are we posting here? You and I are posting here as part of a brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

You and I are different persons, and are doing different things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.

With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know. I'd force myself to forget if I did.

This position you take (or worse, live) is from the perspective of some people, a problem leading to (say) my own conclusion that communication with you may well be useless to any practical ends... How can you have any meaningful relationship with another, if you choose to forget the facts/reality of your connection with that other person? You may not want meaningful relationships, that's of course a matter for you, but succeeding in meaningless relationships is surely a "success" not worthy of bothering with.

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brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your role playing with reality.

Reality is way worse, and you know it.

Karl, your words "you know it" are problematic because thay project upon your target that they know something, or in this context, agree with you that "reality is way worse than playing crazy". Many (perhaps most) people find role-playing to be occasionally fun, in a childish and whimsical way, but intolerable on any regular basis, and certainly intolerable when one seeks greater awareness and truth in the reality we find ourselves within, and when we want to try to find solutions to problems we face. My personal assumption about you, your particular existence, is that you have experienced past trauma from which you escape or try to handle by a few tools such as "playing crazy". That may be a useful survival tool for you. But the suggestion is that it is unwise to project your need for this tool, upon others. Good luck and God speed, Karl,

Hi Zenaan. I'm going to try to summarize the things you say, so I understand them better. Feel free to let me know when or how i am wrong. On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 11:59 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

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yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense.

Or you're spewing conflict, turning people against each other, which is how my nation keeps the status quo.

Karl, this quote you pasted of Punk, is not him "defending the western political-economic powers".

Are you saying that speaking in ways that divide people resisting them, does not do this?

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FYI, unlike any of the other posters here, I've done my

homework regarding liberal political philosophy and I can defend it. The other posters however are either outright fascists or fake 'libertarian' posers.

Karl, this quote you pasted of Punk, is also not him "defending the western political-economic powers".

Maybe you are clarifying what a quote is, here? Or helping me understand something else? I wasn't trying to make your quoted point with that quote.

it's rough to have to say everything backwards. nobody ever understands you.

When for you, reality is so painful that you often prefer and role-play being "insane", you

To clarify, I have severe issues that would classify me as "insane" in my insane culture, because I have been through something unimaginably painful. I understand most others have been through something unimaginably painful, too. also sometimes get caught up in that role play game, and lose track (lose

the connections in the conversation, lose memory af what happened, what was said, and evidently even lose track of the meaning of something you just now copy and pasted).

I don't understand. It hurts to read what you say, I imagine spending time talking about whether my issues should be blamed on my coping strategies, which doesn't seem like a good investment of time. It might be more comfortable to you to exist in your "role play illusion",

but conversation with you, from an onlooker, starts to look pointless, and ultimately a waste of our time.

It sounds like you care about me a lot, and want to be able to effectively act on it? It hurts to read what you say. Punk is a hard core existentialist/ rationalist, fwiw, and so if you are

going to try to challenge him as you just tried (and failed), you need to be on very solid ground if you wish to "succeed" in your challenge.

I think here you are just trying to give punk some more status compared to me? If your criteria for that "success" is some other axis than "correctness"

and "based in fact", then other folks will struggle to

Facts are succinct and are open to other facts standing alongside them. understand you, and at some point may well give up attempting to (or

bothering to) communicate with you at all... which of

You talk with too much obscure conflict for me to reply to what you mean, Zenaan. I'm not usually even active on this list. course is another criteria of "success"...

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So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this

list is, and

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further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.

Why are we posting here? You and I are posting here as part of a brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

You and I are different persons, and are doing different things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.

With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know. I'd force myself to forget if I did.

This position you take (or worse, live) is from the perspective of some people, a problem leading to (say) my own conclusion that communication with you may well be useless to any practical ends...

Same to you. But like everyone, my ears forever reopen. They just wait for respectful silence, to do so. How can you have any meaningful relationship with another, if you choose to

forget the facts/reality of your connection with that other person?

It sounds like you are blaming me for my amnesia? You may not want meaningful relationships, that's of course a matter for

you, but succeeding in meaningless relationships is surely a "success" not worthy of bothering with.

It hurts to read this. So many paragraphs that hurt. NOTHING IS POINTLESS, MOST ESPECIALLY WHAT YOU AND OTHERS SAY.

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brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.

Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your role playing with reality.

Reality is way worse, and you know it.

Karl, your words "you know it" are problematic because thay project upon your

Thanks, that was conflict speaking through me. target that they know something, or in this context, agree with you that

"reality is way worse than playing crazy".

Punk talks like he's been shat on by America. Since I'm American, I figured he'd experienced worse suffering than I knew existed, in some way I'm unlikely to guess. Many (perhaps most) people find role-playing to be occasionally fun, in a

childish and whimsical way, but intolerable on any regular basis, and certainly intolerable when one seeks greater awareness and truth in the reality we find ourselves within, and when we want to try to find solutions to problems we face.

Wtf are you talking about? Why is the topic of role-playing worth so many paragraphs? If it's any help, I'm using roleplays privately to help approach my traumatic experiences safely. My personal assumption about you, your particular existence, is that you

have experienced past trauma from which you escape or try to handle by a few tools such as "playing crazy".

To help out, trauma is _why_ people go crazy. The two go together. That may be a useful survival tool for you.

But the suggestion is that it is unwise to project your need for this tool, upon others.

I hear you a little bit I think here. You're saying others are able to talk straight?

Good luck and God speed, Karl,

It's always nice to find a way to connect with you, because of the shock memes. It was hard to get to the end of this email.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:25:34 -0500 Karl wrote:

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 12:24 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

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On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:12:02 -0500 Karl wrote:

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The people who live in oppressive regimes also want aid, I believe.

what do you mean by oppresive regimes? Please list them.

I don't know enough about them to make a list. It sounds like you know a lot about them?

No, I only know that 'oppresive regimes' is jargon from the pentagon, so I wonder who you're talking about? please give examples of 'oppresive regimes'?

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 11:25 AM \0xDynamite wrote:

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Fe occupy. You know what that "visceral feeling" is? That you're doing something for this world besides being a dumbass consumer. What they got wrong is that the issue of GOD couldn't just be swept under the rug. 100% of queer politics was gaytheist, so went compeltely in opposition to that other pov, which to millions has more proof than monkeys. Unfortunately, that pov also made the powers that hold

I think I understand a little better, on rereading. You're saying that occupy didn't address religious power enough?

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things above in the all-seeing-eye, so nothing got accomplished,

I still don't understand what you mean here. Maybe it would be more clear to me if I were more familiar with the topic.

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practically. Lesson learned, hopefully: that without Truth, everything loses power, to the forces of evolution, you might say.

I'm still not sure of your point here. It sounds like you're speaking for both sides together, who both learned. But earlier you spoke divisively about this.

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Marcos

Your name is Marcos. Mine is Karl. But I'd prefer to be called by

You will too.