On 9/27/20, Stefan Claas <sac@300baud.de> wrote:

grarpamp wrote:

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While I must admit that I am no longer a fan of crypto currencies (huge global energy resources waste IMHO)

And what analysis are people basing that on?

Please do a Google search with this string: 'crypto currency global energy waste' and you will find various articles.

Please provide a link to even one such result that gives a fair whitepaper (or even a good Joe napkin) estimate of the ALL-IN comparative costs between Fiat vs Crypto, as described in the post to which you have replied.

Not to mention that Bitcoin mining is nowadays for the average joe user absolutely not profitable.

https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=40&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1500&CostPerkWh=0.12&MiningPoolFee=1

That link person could buy mining contract in better $/watt location, or invest in own long term solar ROI, or build better efficient power plant, or terminate or route around local GovCorp pricing interference... many options. There is some function on the Joes ability to equalize against centralization coming from millions of Joes being willing to contribute small amounts in extra cost to ensure their their own holdings and network utility. Those smalls can aggregate much larger than central miners and put them out of business. Did you watch "Larken Rose - The Tiny Dot". The Joes have not yet realized they could mobilize that. They've hardly yet considered shifting adoption back to ASIC hard, thus gaining more universal access to distributed CPU mineability of CPU based coins. Or contracting among all themselves to outbid, soak up, contract out, and evenly distribute ASIC production. Or build their own #OpenFAB's on which to print #OpenHW. So many options no one has even taken much step to become free. And just like all Fiats, coins that fall into centralization will eventually die a worthless death. Coins, even Kings, that want to remain relavant will naturally avoid that. That and many other possible future stages of cryptocurency dynamics hasn't even begun to play out, let alone be fully cataloged and recognized as possible outcomes. Nor will there ever be a just one single coin. Nor will any of todays leadeing coins likely to be around 10-20 years from now.

Check the prices, for example, for those Bitmain Antminer's and compare that when all began and when mining Bitcoin was profitable.

Good cryptocurrency is highly dynamic and self balancing systems. It was always known that margins would decrease over time. And that other factors would come in and out of play as time goes by. But the good systems would remain balanced resilient and decentral. Still very early days, not even second gen technology adoption yet. So go make second gen coin technology that kills off the first and BOOM, there is your "like when all began" profitability for you again :) Go start a services business that people like, BOOM, profits :) Your suggested was about "energy" not "profitability", though they are related in some aspects.

And regarding privacy, I do not like the fact that on a Bitcoin Blockchain Explorer everybody can see your account balance and what transactions you have made.

That is a very valid point, tell that to the Bitcoin-BTC people. No one does like that, except spies, especially nasty Govt spies, and people who vote for that to try to force you to do what they want from you. You can coinjoin, coinswap, coinshuffle, coinfusion, swap, mix, and DEX some non privacy coins like Bitcoin-BTC. Some of other coin families can too. Strong cryptographic levels of privacy is important and valuable, that's why some protocol based privacy coins now exist, and why newer ones will be coming forth in the future. For that matter, what many believe to be the "wrong" kind of "everyones" and "untrustworthies" can already see, get access to, steal, partner give away, censor, lockdown your central GovCorp bank account balances, paypals transactions, install more counting machine tracking points for paper bill serial numbers, etc too. So which spy poison source do you want, non-private Fiat forever (chosen on false energy claims), same poison in today's non-private crypto... or potential better future 2x win with privacy crypto? Gold is pretty private, but has storage and transmissiblity tradeoffs to consider. Chickens, tradegoods, etc their own tradeoffs as well. Use crypto and all those and trade between all as needed. You can also securely and privately hawala chickens if you have a strong private crypto comms system. And if you have a strong private crypto comms system for that, then you already have many parts of a strong private cryptocurrency system. Crypto is here... best push Libertarian Voluntary Anarchy Freedom now in more than just crypto area of life, else it be a very bad slavery trap to escape, CBDC's will be much worse than Fiat System already is, "Energy" and "Environment" will be the least of your concerns at that point. Have fun and best success in the freedom fight :) ps: Did you know you cannot speak of actual freedom on the censored Liberation-Tech mailing list? That is hypocritically sad as well.