Ps. You can buy a 12ga flare gun(coastal use rated) for $69.95 at any marine supply store in the US, no questions asked. It will take out anything living, or in any way flammable, so why bother printing a gun?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:06:39 -0700 Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
Ps. You can buy a 12ga flare gun(coastal use rated) for $69.95 at any marine supply store in the US, no questions asked. It will take out anything living, or in any way flammable, so why bother printing a gun?
yeah but now, with plastic guns, the population will have the means to overthrow the government, exactly like jefferson and washington planned it.
-------- Original message --------From: juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> Date: 8/29/18 12:30 PM (GMT-08:00) To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: I am a criminal On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:06:39 -0700 Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
Ps. You can buy a 12ga flare gun(coastal use rated) for $69.95 at any marine supply store in the US, no questions asked. It will take out anything living, or in any way flammable, so why bother printing a gun?
yeah but now, with plastic guns, the population will have the means to overthrow the government, exactly like jefferson and washington planned it. %%%%%%% I wasn't really suggesting using guns to overthow the government. You might like this explanation of why. Randazza at the libertarian legalwonkblog popehat: "In 1776, when the height of military technology was a musket and a cannon, both of which you could make by melting down church bells, there might have been something to it. When the contest was little more than numbers of guns you could drag through the woods, and how to play the weather, the government probably did need to worry a bit about insurrection – and that might have kept them a bit more honest. However, the first time someone tried that kind of thing, it didn't work out so well. In fact, Shays' Rebellion just led to Constitutional tweaks to make the federal government that much stronger. The Civil War led to even more, with harsher consequences. If 13 states, with the assistance of at least one superpower, didn't manage to get their way through armed insurrection, what the hell makes anyone think that armed insurgency is going to preserve our right to … whatever … not have affordable health care, or to coffee cups that say "Happy Birthday Jesus" on them? Ok, fine… lets come up with a cause worth fighting for. Lets say that Obama refuses to step down in 2016, and he not only declares himself dictator-for-life, but he also starts dressing like Ghadaffi, decrees that the national religion shall be Islam, the national language will be Klingon, there will be an efficient rail network in the United States, the writ of Prima Noctae is now in effect, and there shall be martial law to enforce all of the above, as well as any other laws that the President invents, on a daily basis. We managed to preserve our right to keep military grade rifles and machine guns, so we all muster down on the Town Common with our guns. We tried voting. We tried protesting. This is a reasonable time to start with the armed insurrection stuff. So, you, me, all our neighbors, hell our entire city builds a perimeter around it. We fill sandbags, we all have ammunition, we all have food, water, supplies, and most importantly, we are all unified and in complete solidarity. And we stand there, resisting whatever it is the government was going to do to us. And then they fly over with one jet, dropping one FAE bomb, and roll in with three tanks, and in about 12 hours, our "resistance" is reduced to a few smoking holes. The Tree of Liberty will get its manure all right, but it will be the manure that you shat out as you ran for cover, as long range artillery rains down on our town, as we get carpet bombed from 35,000 feet, and as the sky goes black with drones and cruise missiles. We're screwed. So… if the 2nd Amendment's "right to revolution" implication is real, both practically and legally, it must also include a right to possess tanks, jets, rocket launchers, etc. Your puny AK-47 is useless. So, we need to have at least some of our volunteer resistance show up with Stinger missiles, some anti-aircraft batteries, maybe a submarine or two? Oh, you can't afford that? That's ok, we have some patriotic citizens who can. Who? The same billionaires who already own the government, that's who. So what do they want to "resist?" I could only see them wanting to resist checks on their own power. So, if the Second Amendment implies a right to resist the government, then that would mean that we need our billionaire friends to start stockpiling these weapons now. We need a Koch brothers airfield with a few fighters and bombers, and Adelson should have a fleet of tanks somewhere, and I guess that George Soros would bring his collection of nuke-armed submarines up to date, right? So lets drop the crazy scenario of Obama-cum-Ghadaffi, and just think about something we were really likely to see upset us. Do you think for a moment that you, living in some apartment in Salt Lake City, or a house in Wyoming, or a condo in Boca Raton, would be ready to go to war with the Federal Government over the same shit that would get the Koch Brothers to fuel up their private stock of A10 Warthogs? Really? Because you know what the billionaires want the government to stop doing? They want it to get out of the way of their becoming trillionaires. If you think that the Second Amendment means what the Supreme Court said in Heller, and you believe that is a good thing, because it gives you the ability to resist the government, you might want to play out the long game in your head. The long game here is this interpretation leads to private armies, raised by limitless wealth, all of which looks at our quaint little republican form of government as nothing more than a paper justification to have a flag waving over a few national parks." In full https://www.popehat.com/2015/12/07/you-are-not-going-to-resist-the-governmen...
On 08/29/2018 03:38 PM, Razer wrote:
I wasn't really suggesting using guns to overthow the government. You might like this explanation of why.
Randazza at the libertarian legalwonkblog popehat:
[...]
We managed to preserve our right to keep military grade rifles and machine guns, so we all muster down on the Town Common with our guns. We tried voting. We tried protesting. This is a reasonable time to start with the armed insurrection stuff.
So, you, me, all our neighbors, hell our entire city builds a perimeter around it. We fill sandbags, we all have ammunition, we all have food, water, supplies, and most importantly, we are all unified and in complete solidarity.
And we stand there, resisting whatever it is the government was going to do to us.
And then they fly over with one jet, dropping one FAE bomb, and roll in with three tanks, and in about 12 hours, our "resistance" is reduced to a few smoking holes. The Tree of Liberty will get its manure all right, but it will be the manure that you shat out as you ran for cover, as long range artillery rains down on our town, as we get carpet bombed from 35,000 feet, and as the sky goes black with drones and cruise missiles.
We're screwed.
As a critique of Right Wing militia fantasies, the above stands up well. But as a statement about armed insurrection in general, it presents a straw man argument: Nobody will stage an armed insurrection against a 21st century government by using 18th century colonial strategy and tactics; anyone who tries it will certainly lose, early and badly. The strategic objectives of modern insurrections rarely include replacing the whole government, and winning tactical options rarely include defeating the national armed forces in head to head conflict; that requires mass defection and non-compliance by the opposing force. Instead, an insurrection seeks "redress of grievances" i.e. radical changes in State policy and procedures. Bringing commerce to a halt via boycotts, civil disobedience, sabotage, etc. reliably produces maximum results at minimum risk. "Economic terrorism" ranks at or near first place in formal assessments of threats to State and Corporate power today. The State exists to provide a stable environment for commerce and to enforce the rights, so called, of absentee landlords. It has no other purpose. When the State fails in these missions and can not restore business as usual by force, the State's owner/operators come to the bargaining table prepared to make concessions. In the United States, the Labor Movement and Civil Rights Movement achieved significant objectives working within this model of domestic political warfare. Competent insurrectionists do not kill people except in self defense; murdering one's opponents only makes it difficult or impossible for the survivors to come to the bargaining table mentioned above. "Off The Pig" was a heavily promoted slogan in the 60s and 70s when the FBI was running "Communist" revolutionary cells in the United States - guess who promoted it, and why? Our rulers and their faithful servants make every reasonable effort to provide the public with pre-failed models of rebellion, and to deny the public access to information about practical populist politics. "Rebel As You Are Told" ranks second behind "Divide The Conquered" among the most necessary, persistent and well funded themes in State and Corporate propaganda today. Anyone who wants to see input from public at large have any impact of State policy and Corporate behavior faces a long uphill climb. Any chance of success must start with basic political education. An example of such: http://pilobilus.net/strategic_conflict_docs_intro.html :o)
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:30:01 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
As a critique of Right Wing militia fantasies, the above stands up well.
not sure what you mean by 'right wing' militias, but razer's little piece of left wing statist propangada is just that - propaganda - so it dpesn't stand up well. also, this is not the first time he copy pastes that bullshit.
But as a statement about armed insurrection in general, it presents a straw man argument: Nobody will stage an armed insurrection against a 21st century government by using 18th century colonial strategy and tactics; anyone who tries it will certainly lose, early and badly.
nobody is going to fight the US nazis using just guns when you can use other cheap and effective weapons, so the point made by razer's bullshit propaganda, namely that you need a 'private' army funded by the kochs is...bullshit.
The strategic objectives of modern insurrections rarely include replacing the whole government, and winning tactical options rarely include defeating the national armed forces in head to head conflict; that requires mass defection and non-compliance by the opposing force.
Instead, an insurrection seeks "redress of grievances" i.e. radical changes in State policy and procedures. Bringing commerce to a halt via boycotts, civil disobedience, sabotage,
commerce? I thought the objective was the government? Certainly the economic operations of the corporate arm of the govt are a legitimate target, but not all commerce per se.
etc. reliably produces maximum results at minimum risk. "Economic terrorism" ranks at or near first place in formal assessments of threats to State and Corporate power today.
The State exists to provide a stable environment for commerce and to enforce the rights, so called, of absentee landlords.
eh? The state exists to rule people and to feed itself. "A stable enviroment for commerce" or a free market, is exactly what the state does NOT provide.
It has no other purpose.
lolwut. The very purpose of the state is to allow criminals to extort, steal, kidnap, murder, etc while pretending to be "the law". no doubt states play a big role in enforcing mercantilism, crony capitalism, corporatism or whatever name you want to use for the non-free market, controlled by special interests we have, but that's not the only reason for the state to exist - at all.
When the State fails in these missions and can not restore business as usual by force, the State's owner/operators come to the bargaining table prepared to make concessions. In the United States, the Labor Movement and Civil Rights Movement achieved significant objectives working within this model of domestic political warfare.
LMAO. What 'objectives' did they ever achieve.
Competent insurrectionists do not kill people except in self defense; murdering one's opponents only makes it difficult or impossible for the survivors to come to the bargaining table mentioned above. "Off The Pig" was a heavily promoted slogan in the 60s and 70s when the FBI was running "Communist" revolutionary cells in the United States - guess who promoted it, and why?
Our rulers and their faithful servants make every reasonable effort to provide the public with pre-failed models of rebellion,
indeed, and that's what the 'lefty' 'civil disobedience' 'movement' in the US is. Fully controlled opposition.
and to deny the public access to information about practical populist politics. "Rebel As You Are Told" ranks second behind "Divide The Conquered" among the most necessary, persistent and well funded themes in State and Corporate propaganda today. Anyone who wants to see input from public at large have any impact of State policy and Corporate behavior faces a long uphill climb. Any chance of success must start with basic political education. An example of such:
http://pilobilus.net/strategic_conflict_docs_intro.html
:o)
No popular insurrection against a modern military has occurred mainly due to the lack of easy and affordable access of smart weapons. A broad interpretation of DD's right to publish its 3D plans might soon lead to practical TOW, Stinger and other smart weapons that could neutralize commonly deployed advanced military tech. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:30 PM Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 03:38 PM, Razer wrote:
I wasn't really suggesting using guns to overthow the government. You might like this explanation of why.
Randazza at the libertarian legalwonkblog popehat:
[...]
We managed to preserve our right to keep military grade rifles and machine guns, so we all muster down on the Town Common with our guns. We tried voting. We tried protesting. This is a reasonable time to start with the armed insurrection stuff.
So, you, me, all our neighbors, hell our entire city builds a perimeter around it. We fill sandbags, we all have ammunition, we all have food, water, supplies, and most importantly, we are all unified and in complete solidarity.
And we stand there, resisting whatever it is the government was going to do to us.
And then they fly over with one jet, dropping one FAE bomb, and roll in with three tanks, and in about 12 hours, our "resistance" is reduced to a few smoking holes. The Tree of Liberty will get its manure all right, but it will be the manure that you shat out as you ran for cover, as long range artillery rains down on our town, as we get carpet bombed from 35,000 feet, and as the sky goes black with drones and cruise missiles.
We're screwed.
As a critique of Right Wing militia fantasies, the above stands up well.
But as a statement about armed insurrection in general, it presents a straw man argument: Nobody will stage an armed insurrection against a 21st century government by using 18th century colonial strategy and tactics; anyone who tries it will certainly lose, early and badly.
The strategic objectives of modern insurrections rarely include replacing the whole government, and winning tactical options rarely include defeating the national armed forces in head to head conflict; that requires mass defection and non-compliance by the opposing force.
Instead, an insurrection seeks "redress of grievances" i.e. radical changes in State policy and procedures. Bringing commerce to a halt via boycotts, civil disobedience, sabotage, etc. reliably produces maximum results at minimum risk. "Economic terrorism" ranks at or near first place in formal assessments of threats to State and Corporate power today.
The State exists to provide a stable environment for commerce and to enforce the rights, so called, of absentee landlords. It has no other purpose. When the State fails in these missions and can not restore business as usual by force, the State's owner/operators come to the bargaining table prepared to make concessions. In the United States, the Labor Movement and Civil Rights Movement achieved significant objectives working within this model of domestic political warfare.
Competent insurrectionists do not kill people except in self defense; murdering one's opponents only makes it difficult or impossible for the survivors to come to the bargaining table mentioned above. "Off The Pig" was a heavily promoted slogan in the 60s and 70s when the FBI was running "Communist" revolutionary cells in the United States - guess who promoted it, and why?
Our rulers and their faithful servants make every reasonable effort to provide the public with pre-failed models of rebellion, and to deny the public access to information about practical populist politics. "Rebel As You Are Told" ranks second behind "Divide The Conquered" among the most necessary, persistent and well funded themes in State and Corporate propaganda today. Anyone who wants to see input from public at large have any impact of State policy and Corporate behavior faces a long uphill climb. Any chance of success must start with basic political education. An example of such:
http://pilobilus.net/strategic_conflict_docs_intro.html
:o)
On 08/29/2018 06:05 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
No popular insurrection against a modern military has occurred mainly due to the lack of easy and affordable access of smart weapons.
Define "smart weapon."
broad interpretation of DD's right to publish its 3D plans might soon lead to practical TOW, Stinger and other smart weapons that could neutralize commonly deployed advanced military tech.
Pardon my language, but your ignorance on this subject matter appears to be absolute. The sentence above presents as meaningless and embarrassing noise, to an audience that understands the technology you are talking about. The CPunks list has more than enough engineers and technicians to assure "no sale" for your ignorant bullshit. :o)
On 08/29/2018 04:32 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 08/29/2018 06:05 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
No popular insurrection against a modern military has occurred mainly due to the lack of easy and affordable access of smart weapons.
Define "smart weapon."
broad interpretation of DD's right to publish its 3D plans might soon lead to practical TOW, Stinger and other smart weapons that could neutralize commonly deployed advanced military tech.
Pardon my language, but your ignorance on this subject matter appears to be absolute. The sentence above presents as meaningless and embarrassing noise, to an audience that understands the technology you are talking about. The CPunks list has more than enough engineers and technicians to assure "no sale" for your ignorant bullshit.
:o)
Biological weapons are arguably the only option with enough force asymmetry. But then, victory would be rather hollow ;) Unless, I suppose, one could target particular shared sets of genetic alleles (loosely, "races"). But then, governments are certainly doing just that, with far more resources.
Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their withdrawal from Afghanistan. Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the major plot element in one of his stories? On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:04 PM Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 04:32 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 08/29/2018 06:05 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
No popular insurrection against a modern military has occurred mainly due to the lack of easy and affordable access of smart weapons.
Define "smart weapon."
broad interpretation of DD's right to publish its 3D plans might soon lead to practical TOW, Stinger and other smart weapons that could neutralize commonly deployed advanced military tech.
Pardon my language, but your ignorance on this subject matter appears to be absolute. The sentence above presents as meaningless and embarrassing noise, to an audience that understands the technology you are talking about. The CPunks list has more than enough engineers and technicians to assure "no sale" for your ignorant bullshit.
:o)
Biological weapons are arguably the only option with enough force asymmetry. But then, victory would be rather hollow ;) Unless, I suppose, one could target particular shared sets of genetic alleles (loosely, "races"). But then, governments are certainly doing just that, with far more resources.
On 08/29/2018 07:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Arguably yes. But they got them from the US. They didn't build them in caves. Now AK-47 clones, they're very good at :)
Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the major plot element in one of his stories?
I don't remember. I do recall that William S. Burroughs more or less based his last trilogy on biological weapons: _Cities of the Red Night_, _The Place of Dead Roads_ and _The Western Lands_.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:04 PM Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 04:32 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 08/29/2018 06:05 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
No popular insurrection against a modern military has occurred mainly due to the lack of easy and affordable access of smart weapons.
Define "smart weapon."
broad interpretation of DD's right to publish its 3D plans might soon lead to practical TOW, Stinger and other smart weapons that could neutralize commonly deployed advanced military tech.
Pardon my language, but your ignorance on this subject matter appears to be absolute. The sentence above presents as meaningless and embarrassing noise, to an audience that understands the technology you are talking about. The CPunks list has more than enough engineers and technicians to assure "no sale" for your ignorant bullshit.
:o)
Biological weapons are arguably the only option with enough force asymmetry. But then, victory would be rather hollow ;) Unless, I suppose, one could target particular shared sets of genetic alleles (loosely, "races"). But then, governments are certainly doing just that, with far more resources.
In a similar way that we all have 1970s era super computers in our pockets, I am assuming, with some basis, that it's possible to affordably modify discarded current era smartphones (with their ample computing, excellent cameras and micomechanical motion sensors and GPS) to serve as the sensing, attitude control and computing element for adequate daylight operation MANPAD. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:22 PM Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 07:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Arguably yes. But they got them from the US. They didn't build them in caves. Now AK-47 clones, they're very good at :)
Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the major plot element in one of his stories?
I don't remember. I do recall that William S. Burroughs more or less based his last trilogy on biological weapons: _Cities of the Red Night_, _The Place of Dead Roads_ and _The Western Lands_.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 7:04 PM Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 04:32 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 08/29/2018 06:05 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
No popular insurrection against a modern military has occurred mainly due to the lack of easy and affordable access of smart weapons.
Define "smart weapon."
broad interpretation of DD's right to publish its 3D plans might soon lead
to
practical TOW, Stinger and other smart weapons that could neutralize commonly deployed advanced military tech.
Pardon my language, but your ignorance on this subject matter appears to be absolute. The sentence above presents as meaningless and embarrassing noise, to an audience that understands the technology you are talking about. The CPunks list has more than enough engineers and technicians to assure "no sale" for your ignorant bullshit.
:o)
Biological weapons are arguably the only option with enough force asymmetry. But then, victory would be rather hollow ;) Unless, I suppose, one could target particular shared sets of genetic alleles (loosely, "races"). But then, governments are certainly doing just that, with far more resources.
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 19:58:55 -0700 Steven Schear <schear.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
In a similar way that we all have 1970s era super computers in our pockets, I am assuming, with some basis, that it's possible to affordably modify discarded current era smartphones (with their ample computing, excellent cameras and micomechanical motion sensors and GPS) to serve as the sensing, attitude control and computing element for adequate daylight operation MANPAD.
of course, and you probably can even use a $3 microcontroller (32 bits arm...) however, I don't think you could call your missiles 'stinger' because that's intellectual property owned by uncle sam. he would be upset if you violated his trademark. now joking aside, the point here is that yes, it is a good idea to be armed against the government, and yes armament doesn't have to be limited to guns. And yes, it's quite possible to combine 'amateur' rocketry, 'amateur' chemistry and 'amateur' electronics to get some interesting and useful devices.
While at university a group of friends built and successfully tested a simple supersonic, IR, guided missile using common amateur rocketry tech, servo controllers from model planes and a CO2-cooled sensor. They "shot" down model plane or two. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 9:20 PM juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 19:58:55 -0700 Steven Schear <schear.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
In a similar way that we all have 1970s era super computers in our pockets, I am assuming, with some basis, that it's possible to affordably modify discarded current era smartphones (with their ample computing, excellent cameras and micomechanical motion sensors and GPS) to serve as the sensing, attitude control and computing element for adequate daylight operation MANPAD.
of course, and you probably can even use a $3 microcontroller (32 bits arm...)
however, I don't think you could call your missiles 'stinger' because that's intellectual property owned by uncle sam. he would be upset if you violated his trademark.
now joking aside, the point here is that yes, it is a good idea to be armed against the government, and yes armament doesn't have to be limited to guns. And yes, it's quite possible to combine 'amateur' rocketry, 'amateur' chemistry and 'amateur' electronics to get some interesting and useful devices.
On 08/29/2018 10:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the major plot element in one of his stories?
Isn't it you who seems to believe that 3D printers can make guided missiles? From there to "ragtag rebel hipsters" making biological weapons to wipe out scapegoat families ain't a long stretch, as both both reflect an infantile fantasy life with no significant grounding in material reality. Why not 3D print a few kilos of heroin to fund your rebellion? Or if that's not your bag, why not 3D print diamonds? Or gold? :o)
Not directly and certainly not the metal combustion chamber or nozzel. Probably not the parts exposed to high aerodynamic forces either but these are easily made using common and inexpensive metal shop fabrication means. On Aug 29, 2018 9:13 PM, "Steve Kinney" <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote: On 08/29/2018 10:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the major plot element in one of his stories?
Isn't it you who seems to believe that 3D printers can make guided missiles?
From there to "ragtag rebel hipsters" making biological weapons to wipe out scapegoat families ain't a long stretch, as both both reflect an infantile fantasy life with no significant grounding in material reality.
Why not 3D print a few kilos of heroin to fund your rebellion? Or if that's not your bag, why not 3D print diamonds? Or gold? :o)
On 08/30/2018 12:44 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
Not directly and certainly not the metal combustion chamber or nozzel. Probably not the parts exposed to high aerodynamic forces either but these are easily made using common and inexpensive metal shop fabrication means.
Common and inexpensive means of fabricating titanium alloy parts, aerospace guidance systems and servomechanisms, high energy propellants and explosives, etc. And integrating them into one system that does not blow up when the "fire" button is pressed, killing the users. If you want to play with backpack portable anti-aircraft weapons, you have three options: Buy them, steal them, or promise Uncle Sam you will shoot down the planes of his choice while wearing someone else's uniform. Let's imagine that you have managed to get hold of, for instance, a couple of crates of real live stinger missiles, with manuals etc., all airworthy and ready to go: Start using them to off pigs. What happens? A state of emergency, martial law, a coast to coast and international manhunt using every surveillance database and collection method known to man. Forensics teams will find exactly where in the supply chain you got your missiles, and investigators will work forward from there and backward from the scene of the crime until they meet in the middle: You and your team. Would the public rise up? A lot of them would, to help find you: John and Jane Q. Public generally don't approve of politically motivated murder, unless it's been explained in advance by trusted media outlets on the basis of some overriding "necessity", sugar coated, and the gruesome details hidden from them. Your project would get the full demonization treatment and "propaganda works." Solve all of the above problems and proceed: You will discover that killing scapegoats does not repair systemic disorders hard wired into the fabric of daily life and business as usual in a country with hundreds of millions of citizens. :o/
On Aug 29, 2018 9:13 PM, "Steve Kinney" <admin@pilobilus.net <mailto:admin@pilobilus.net>> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 10:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote: > Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their > withdrawal from Afghanistan. > > Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the > major plot element in one of his stories?
Isn't it you who seems to believe that 3D printers can make guided missiles?
From there to "ragtag rebel hipsters" making biological weapons to wipe out scapegoat families ain't a long stretch, as both both reflect an infantile fantasy life with no significant grounding in material reality.
Why not 3D print a few kilos of heroin to fund your rebellion? Or if that's not your bag, why not 3D print diamonds? Or gold?
:o)
You don't appear to have any experience with amateur rocketry. Although perchlorate based grains can be tricky, zinc-sulphur propellants can be used safely. (My friends and I flew 24-inch ZnS rockets to altitudes approaching 10k feet and Mach 1.8 while in HS. Titanium and other exotic metals are unnecessary today. Composites can easily do the trick. As for actuators, with the right designs, amateur aircraft servos can suffice although I have seen pneumatic ones used also. I haven't tested nor seen others evaluate the efficacy of smartphone motion sensors for combat situations but there are discrete COTS components whose specs fall within the needed ranges. Warheads are generally scaled up shotgun shells. Flachets, ideally from tungsten but cast steel will do, are better than metal shot. As for safety even commercial military arms fail. I certainly wouldn't want to test even the later protyped. ISIS forces seem to have created some excellent munitions using rather rudimentary materials but clever engineering. No reason to think those living in a developed country with access to common materials and a good garage foundry and machine shop can't do better. On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:14 AM Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
On 08/30/2018 12:44 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
Not directly and certainly not the metal combustion chamber or nozzel. Probably not the parts exposed to high aerodynamic forces either but these are easily made using common and inexpensive metal shop fabrication means.
Common and inexpensive means of fabricating titanium alloy parts, aerospace guidance systems and servomechanisms, high energy propellants and explosives, etc. And integrating them into one system that does not blow up when the "fire" button is pressed, killing the users.
If you want to play with backpack portable anti-aircraft weapons, you have three options: Buy them, steal them, or promise Uncle Sam you will shoot down the planes of his choice while wearing someone else's uniform.
Let's imagine that you have managed to get hold of, for instance, a couple of crates of real live stinger missiles, with manuals etc., all airworthy and ready to go: Start using them to off pigs. What happens? A state of emergency, martial law, a coast to coast and international manhunt using every surveillance database and collection method known to man. Forensics teams will find exactly where in the supply chain you got your missiles, and investigators will work forward from there and backward from the scene of the crime until they meet in the middle: You and your team.
Would the public rise up? A lot of them would, to help find you: John and Jane Q. Public generally don't approve of politically motivated murder, unless it's been explained in advance by trusted media outlets on the basis of some overriding "necessity", sugar coated, and the gruesome details hidden from them. Your project would get the full demonization treatment and "propaganda works."
Solve all of the above problems and proceed: You will discover that killing scapegoats does not repair systemic disorders hard wired into the fabric of daily life and business as usual in a country with hundreds of millions of citizens.
:o/
On Aug 29, 2018 9:13 PM, "Steve Kinney" <admin@pilobilus.net <mailto:admin@pilobilus.net>> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 10:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote: > Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their > withdrawal from Afghanistan. > > Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the > major plot element in one of his stories?
Isn't it you who seems to believe that 3D printers can make guided missiles?
From there to "ragtag rebel hipsters" making biological weapons to wipe out scapegoat families ain't a long stretch, as both both reflect an infantile fantasy life with no significant grounding in material reality.
Why not 3D print a few kilos of heroin to fund your rebellion? Or if that's not your bag, why not 3D print diamonds? Or gold?
:o)
Steven Schear wrote
You don't appear to have any experience with amateur rocketry. I do. Estes... You can use the parachute charge as igniter for an explosive payload. I also had a fleet of RC aircraft in the 1960s. At one point I was seriously considering taking out the muster room of the local police station, it being situated next to an outer wall, with an RC plane and explosive load in its fuselage. But that was decades ago, before they built a literal fortress to house their police. You are so naive thinking toys like this could even make a dent in the police state's operation it's almost not worth the time typing a response. Rr
On 08/30/2018 11:31 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
You don't appear to have any experience with amateur rocketry. Although perchlorate based grains can be tricky, zinc-sulphur propellants can be used safely. (My friends and I flew 24-inch ZnS rockets to altitudes approaching 10k feet and Mach 1.8 while in HS.
Groovy, but a 24 inch rocket casing does not even come close to a practical weapon in portability, accuracy or knock-down power. How much of it was taken up by fuel, vs. payload and avionics? Did it have a steering mechanism with capabilities beyond "keep the rocket vertical"?
Titanium and other exotic metals are unnecessary today. Composites can easily do the trick. As for actuators, with the right designs, amateur aircraft servos can suffice although I have seen pneumatic ones used also.
High strength, heat tolerant materials are unnecessary unless your design calls for accelerating and steering a payload that can reliably knock down an aircraft, and actually hitting targets with it. Past a cut-off point, efficiency and extra cleverness can not substitute for brute force and total ignorance. In the case at hand, existing munitions indicate that all of the above are necessary for success.
I haven't tested nor seen others evaluate the efficacy of smartphone motion sensors for combat situations but there are discrete COTS components whose specs fall within the needed ranges.
Discrete COTS components fail spec in this case, because per the stated design they they will be plugged into a "smart phone." By definition that phone is live opposition hardware radio, unless the antennas and/or radio chip are removed. That done, it's still running the opposition's software of choice unless thoroughly cleaned. By the time you're done modding the hardware and software, it's cheaper and far easier to use a Raspberri Pi or similar device. That's what they're for.
Warheads are generally scaled up shotgun shells. Flachets, ideally from tungsten but cast steel will do, are better than metal shot.
Warheads are generally high explosive shaped charges. Some deliver a single penetrator slug, white-hot and ultrasonic; others deliver shot in a narrow cone, horizontal band, or radially as in a bounding mine application. Anti-aircraft shot varies in shape and composition, typically a mix of polyhedrons and bowties, uranium of course. The cleverest warheads can deliver a selection of projectile patterns, by altering the timing of multiple primers in the driving charge. Your plane killer won't need anything that fancy. But it will need to haul a load of heavy metal and top end high explosives to within spitting distance of the target aircraft, figuratively speaking, and fire that warhead right on time.
As for safety even commercial military arms fail. I certainly wouldn't want to test even the later protyped. ISIS forces seem to have created some excellent munitions using rather rudimentary materials but clever engineering. No reason to think those living in a developed country with access to common materials and a good garage foundry and machine shop can't do better.
The only thing that calls to mind is the cheap knock-offs of WWII stovepipe artillery rockets that were carried in by ISIS to stage a "Syrian Government Chemical Weapons Attack" way back in the early days of the war. The op was fail. Other than that, ISIS & Co. appears to get the best our international gray market arms dealsers can offer, courtesy of your local CIA and its sister agencies, plus buddies overseas. It's a long, hard, complicated road from lighting a big skyrocket to shooting down airplanes, especially under the watchful eyes of State Security as per a civil uprising scenario. Your cell could get a lot more bang for the buck by preparing to attack infrastructure targets affecting industrial facilities, with "kill nobody" among the top strategic objectives. There, extra efficiency and superior cleverness do pay off compared to brute force and total ignorance. Killing people to improve the world presents as the ultimate Loser Script. To rebel as one is told, is not to rebel at all. :o)
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 19:04:29 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
High strength, heat tolerant materials are unnecessary unless your design calls for accelerating and steering a payload that can reliably knock down an aircraft, and actually hitting targets with it.
and how do you know? Are you some sort of 'military engineer' despite your 'quaker pacifism' and compassion for the pigs ?
On 08/30/2018 07:14 PM, juan wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 19:04:29 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
High strength, heat tolerant materials are unnecessary unless your design calls for accelerating and steering a payload that can reliably knock down an aircraft, and actually hitting targets with it.
and how do you know? Are you some sort of 'military engineer' despite your 'quaker pacifism' and compassion for the pigs ?
I study military history, especially focused on 20th and 21st century wars. I pay attention to military and aerospace technology for many reasons: The time to "lay down that sword and shield, and study war no more" is when we arrive at that riverside. On the journey from here to there, we must study the FUCK out of war to become its masters, not its victims. On the technical side, I have worked in electronics manufacturing and in machine shops. I have run a range projects from designing and building UL Certified life safety equipment to production design and management, and designed and implemented ISO 9000 quality programs. I have some /faint/ clue about how stuff works - including military hardware, thanks in part to direct exposure and in part to reading "aerospace defense industry" trade magazines for a looong time- one likes to keep current on what scams are in progress, or looking for sponsorship. There is no such thing as Quaker Pacifism, although Friends do have a well earned reputation of opposition to war. I helped my Monthly Meeting organize draft counselor training back in 2001 when it looked for a bit like it might be useful. (Spoiler: Any determined individual can legally opt out of the draft under existing U.S. public policy and legal precedents. Religious conviction is not a requirement, although it does qualify.) As for "compassion for the pigs," that phrase kind of says it all. Hate is a Loser Script. Presenting hate as "revolutionary" promotes the failure of revolutionary goals and actions. So how long you been working PsyOps as an unwitting agent for the Other Side? :o)
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:13:51 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Solve all of the above problems and proceed: You will discover that killing scapegoats
you are confused about the nature of pigs and the military
does not repair systemic disorders hard wired into the fabric of daily
right but it can help. Plus there's this little thing called justice. life and business as usual in a country with
hundreds of millions of citizens.
:o/
On Aug 29, 2018 9:13 PM, "Steve Kinney" <admin@pilobilus.net <mailto:admin@pilobilus.net>> wrote:
On 08/29/2018 10:07 PM, Steven Schear wrote: > Stingers seem to be the deciding element for the Soviets in their > withdrawal from Afghanistan. > > Wasn't it Isaac Asimov that used gene-targeted assassination as the > major plot element in one of his stories?
Isn't it you who seems to believe that 3D printers can make guided missiles?
From there to "ragtag rebel hipsters" making biological weapons to wipe out scapegoat families ain't a long stretch, as both both reflect an infantile fantasy life with no significant grounding in material reality.
Why not 3D print a few kilos of heroin to fund your rebellion? Or if that's not your bag, why not 3D print diamonds? Or gold?
:o)
On 08/30/2018 03:15 PM, juan wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:13:51 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Solve all of the above problems and proceed: You will discover that killing scapegoats
you are confused about the nature of pigs and the military
Our respondent was talking about killing political offenders, not their servants.
does not repair systemic disorders hard wired into the fabric of daily
right but it can help. Plus there's this little thing called justice.
A.K.A. revenge. Revenge is a losing strategy, alienating potential supporters and assuring that the opposition will "fight to the last man" even in hopeless situations. So revenge is a core component of the Rebel As You Are Told package provided to would-be rebels by their rulers. Killing in self defense only, and offering a path to rehabilitation for defectors from the Other Side, are winning strategies.
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:51:18 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
On 08/30/2018 03:15 PM, juan wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:13:51 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Solve all of the above problems and proceed: You will discover that killing scapegoats
you are confused about the nature of pigs and the military
Our respondent was talking about killing political offenders, not their servants.
Sorry I thought you were talking about pigs since you mentioned them in a previous message. Anyway none of these criminals are 'scapegoats'. Your use of the term is unwarranted. Both pigs and their bosses are 'the state', pigs being materially responsible and so arguably worse offenders than politicians but still all of them have to go.
does not repair systemic disorders hard wired into the fabric of daily
right but it can help. Plus there's this little thing called justice.
A.K.A. revenge.
also know as payback or justice.
Revenge is a losing strategy, alienating potential supporters and assuring that the opposition will "fight to the last man" even in hopeless situations.
why would they fight when fighting means they will get justice also known as death? Yet another thing you are missing about the nature of pigs. They are cowards. "Revenge is a losing strategy' so you are saying that justice is a losing strategy?
So revenge is a core component of the Rebel As You Are Told package provided to would-be rebels by their rulers.
I don't think that rulers promote revege, aka justice. Quite the opposite, what rulers promote is the idea that revenge against them (or justice) is a bad idea.
Killing in self defense only,
duh, killing pigs is, by definition, self defense.
and offering a path to rehabilitation for defectors from the Other Side,
well yes ex pigs are free to start killing their ex accomplices if they want.
are winning strategies.
anyway, it's true that non violent are better in some ways, but that doesnt mean that violent means are bad.
On 08/29/2018 07:38 PM, Razer wrote:
So… if the 2nd Amendment's "right to revolution" implication is real, both practically and legally, it must also include a right to possess tanks, jets, rocket launchers, etc. Your puny AK-47 is useless. So, we need to have at least some of our volunteer resistance show up with Stinger missiles, some anti-aircraft batteries, maybe a submarine or two?
Oh, you can't afford that?
The 2nd amendment was created before fighter jets and missiles were invented. If there ever was a fight against an entity that was armed with jets and missiles, then hopefully the state militias whom report to the state governor would side with the people. Doesn't each state have its own military? I know that at least mine does. And alot of the people in the national guard are also patriots. Even if a puny glorified slingshot (that is all a gun is, a glorified slingshot that throws lead really fast) cannot by itself protect against an army of drones armed with lasers, at least people still have their firearms to protect from radical terrorists, wacko mass murderers, robbers, and other criminals. 3D printable guns insure the liberty of people to preserve life and to defend themselves, especially in regions where governments do not let civillians own guns yet at the same time those same governments do nothing to protect the people. Just look at UK, where radical islamists just mow down people with machine guns, plow them over with trucks, women can't walk the streets at night without risk of getting raped or robbed, the government prevents them from being able to defend themselves yet does not do anything to protect them. Now with 3D printable guns people anywhere in the world can produce a pistol to defend themselves from criminals. And yes, the 2nd amendment was intended to be a defender of liberty.
On 08/31/2018 02:58 AM, CANNON wrote:
Just look at UK, where radical islamists just mow down people with machine guns, plow them over with trucks, women can't walk the streets at night without risk of getting raped or robbed,
I am referring to London. But this is really a trend across many European nations.
On 08/30/2018 08:06 PM, CANNON wrote:
On 08/31/2018 02:58 AM, CANNON wrote:
Just look at UK, where radical islamists just mow down people with machine guns, plow them over with trucks, women can't walk the streets at night without risk of getting raped or robbed,
I am referring to London. But this is really a trend across many European nations.
Then maybe they shouldn't have killed the shit out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on. It's just consequences. So just suck it up.
On 08/31/2018 03:17 AM, Mirimir wrote:
On 08/30/2018 08:06 PM, CANNON wrote:
On 08/31/2018 02:58 AM, CANNON wrote:
Just look at UK, where radical islamists just mow down people with machine guns, plow them over with trucks, women can't walk the streets at night without risk of getting raped or robbed,
I am referring to London. But this is really a trend across many European nations.
Then maybe they shouldn't have killed the shit out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on. It's just consequences. So just suck it up.
The islamist extremist target innocent people whom have nothing to do with any war. They are of the devil and fight for the side of evil. I am just saying, while many innocent lives over there get slaughtered by the terrorists.... If the islmaic clowns try any of that BS here in my area they would not make it far at all.
On 08/30/2018 08:55 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 03:20:56 +0000 CANNON <cannon@cannon-ciota.info> wrote:
The jew-kkkristian extremists target innocent people whom have nothing to do with any war.
there, fixed it for you.
They're all devils, bro :)
On 08/30/2018 08:20 PM, CANNON wrote:
On 08/31/2018 03:17 AM, Mirimir wrote:
On 08/30/2018 08:06 PM, CANNON wrote:
On 08/31/2018 02:58 AM, CANNON wrote:
Just look at UK, where radical islamists just mow down people with machine guns, plow them over with trucks, women can't walk the streets at night without risk of getting raped or robbed,
I am referring to London. But this is really a trend across many European nations.
Then maybe they shouldn't have killed the shit out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on. It's just consequences. So just suck it up.
The islamist extremist target innocent people whom have nothing to do with any war.
I guess they have some anger issues, bro.
They are of the devil and fight for the side of evil.
Now _that's_ funny! You're Jewish or Christian, I'm guessing, given your use of "devil". But Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same God. Both Christians and Muslims expect that Christ will be resurrected. And that he'll lead them to victory over the other. I'm not sure what the Jews think of that. Israel will be the battleground, of course. And what about this "devil" thing? Isn't there just one god? If that's so, Satan is just one aspect of God. Who must truly be one psychotic motherfucker. I highly recommend Matthew Stover's novels (except for the Star Wars stuff). His first two, _Iron Dawn_ and _Jericho Moon_, take place in the Middle East, on the eastern edge of the Egyptian Empire, a decade or so after the Trojan War ended. _Jericho Moon_ is basically about the Maccabee Revolution, from the Seleucid perspective. The Maccabees (Hebrews) come off basically as devil worshipers ;) They conjure various aspects (aka angels) of Yahweh to smite their enemies. Using the standard stuff. You know, pentagrams, burning ram's blood in charcoal braziers, chanting, etc. And two of those aspects were Shachath (Angel of Death) and Mastema (aka Satan).
I am just saying, while many innocent lives over there get slaughtered by the terrorists....
Shit happens.
If the islmaic clowns try any of that BS here in my area they would not make it far at all.
Big words, bro :)
On 08/30/2018 07:58 PM, CANNON wrote:
a gun is, a glorified slingshot that throws lead really fast) cannot by itself protect against an army of drones armed with lasers, at least people still have their firearms to protect from radical terrorists, wacko mass murderers, robbers, and other criminals.
In my estimation and experience, people who think like this, become those. Rr
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 04:30:09PM -0300, juan wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:06:39 -0700 Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
Ps. You can buy a 12ga flare gun(coastal use rated) for $69.95 at any marine supply store in the US, no questions asked. It will take out anything living, or in any way flammable, so why bother printing a gun?
yeah but now, with plastic guns, the population will have the means to overthrow the government, exactly like jefferson and washington planned it.
.. the means to blow their hands off :)
-- GPG fingerprint: 17FD 615A D20D AFE8 B3E4 C9D2 E324 20BE D47A 78C7
participants (7)
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CANNON -
John Newman -
juan -
Mirimir -
Razer -
Steve Kinney -
Steven Schear