On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 07:44:07AM +0200, Anders Sandberg wrote:

...

So, will you stop visiting other countries as a result of this? Will I be stopped, you mean? Maybe. I certainly know people who are every time "randomly" selected for special treatment when flying, and I know people who've been denied entry. It is really quite ridiculous.

I also know people who are afraid for their life so they're effectively in exile. We also know a person who's trapped in an embassy in London. Nevermind people like Snowden and Manning. It is not 'chilling effects' if you actually are harassed or have warrants on your head. What I am getting at is that the vast majority of

On 2013-10-27 18:15, Eugen Leitl wrote: people are not directly affected by many of the threats we have discussed, yet if they think they are or could be and as a result change their behaviour in a more compliant direction then we have a problem. Especially if the thinking is (accidentally) seeded by the people who actually are against the compliance. There is a fine line here, similar to denouncing a tyrannical government. You want to make people aware of the abuses, yet not so afraid of the abuses that their response is to conform. There are also links to Hirschman's "Exit, voice, loyalty" analysis: if key people respond by exit (moving to friendlier states, disappearing into the blacknets) the remaining people will be less able to efficiently voice concern and ensure some negotiated resolution - and many might cleave to loyalty because that seems to be the only solution. -- Dr Anders Sandberg Future of Humanity Institute Oxford Martin School Oxford University _______________________________________________ extropy-chat mailing list extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat