Albert Einstein called it "spooky action at a distance".  He hated the concept of quantum mechanics, saying "God does not play dice with the Universe".  Unfortunately, Einstein was quite wrong.   The idea is that pairs of photons can be generated and can go virtually any distance, and then a measurement made on one of these photons essentially instantaneously determines the equivalent value of the other photon.  There is apparently no limit to the distance over which this can be done.  A few years ago I read that the apparent velocity of this connection is at least 10,000 times c, or the speed of light in a vacuum.  https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/news-blog/quantum-weirdnes-wins-again-entangl-2008-08-13/#:~:text=(In%202007%2C%20researchers%20transmitted%20entangled,two%20of%20the%20Canary%20Islands.)&text=But%20in%20reality%2C%20no%20experiment,times%20the%20speed%20of%20light. "The photons were indeed entangled, the group reports in Nature. But in reality, no experiment is perfect, so what they end up with is a lower limit on how fast the entanglement could be traveling: 10,000 times the speed of light." I'm not a good person to be explaining this to you:  My degree is in chemistry, not physics.  But read up on Bell's inequalities.  (different Bell!)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem    "Bell's theorem proves that quantum physics is incompatible with local hidden variable theories. It was introduced by physicist John Stewart Bell in a 1964 paper titled "On the Einstein Podolsky Rosen Paradox", referring to a 1935 thought experiment that Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen used to argue that quantum physics is an "incomplete" theory.[1][2] By 1935, it was already recognized that the predictions of quantum physics are probabilistic. Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen presented a scenario that, in their view, indicated that quantum particles, like electrons and photons, must carry physical properties or attributes not included in quantum theory, and the uncertainties in quantum theory's predictions are due to ignorance of these properties, later termed "hidden variables". Their scenario involves a pair of widely separated physical objects, prepared in such a way that the quantum state of the pair is entangled. "      [partial quote] Quantum communication over fiber optics has been done to a record distance of 50 kilometers.   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190829150732.htm#:~:text=For%20the%20first%20time%2C%20a,for%20a%20future%20quantum%20internet.&text=FULL%20STORY-,For%20the%20first%20time%2C%20a%20team%20has%20sent%20a%20light,50%20km%20of%20optical%20fiber.     Ironically, I have actually made a major contribution to this field, although almost nobody realizes it yet.  The limit to the distance of quantum entanglement, 50 kilometers above, is based on the amount of optical loss present in the fiber.  Prior to my invention, and currently, the record for a low-loss single-mode optical fiber is by Sumitomo Electric, and is 0.1419 db/kilometer.      https://global-sei.com/company/press/2017/03/prs029.html#:~:text=Now%20Sumit.... Fiber optics scientists and engineers achieved a fiber loss of about 0.200 db/km in 1978, and about 0.160 by the mid-1980's.  They are apparently approaching a limit asymptotically, the limit defined by the presence of natural-quantities of spin-containing isotopes in silica.   In about December 2008, while stuck in a Federal prison cell at USP Tucson, Arizona, I realized that the cause of the residual loss in these fibers is the Si-29 and O-17 isotope atoms, and for Corning-type fibers (containing germania, or GeO2, dopant), the Ge-73 isotope atoms.  Remove these spin-containing isotopes from optical fiber silica, and it should be possible to drop the loss by at least a factor of 100, or to about 0.001db/kilometer. (Corning-type fibers use a core of 8% GeO2 and 92% SiO2, and pure silica in the cladding.   Sumitomo-type fibers use(s) a pure-silica core, and a fluorine-doped cladding.  Since there are fewer spin-containing isotopes in pure silica than in germania-doped silica, Sumitomo had/has a small loss advantage over Corning.) If this fiber is used for comunication between New York and Ireland, the hop should be achievable by a single, continuous fiber.  It will not need to contain the 40-odd EDFA  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_amplifier  amplifiers currently employed.   Similarly, if such fiber is used for a quantum link, it should be possible to do the link at least at a distance of 5000 kilometers, 100x better than the recent (2019) record. The Chinese have been doing entanglement experiments on a satellite named Micius.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Experiments_at_Space_Scale "QUESS is a proof-of-concept mission designed to facilitate quantum optics experiments over long distances to allow the development of quantum encryption and quantum teleportation technology.[7] Quantum encryption uses the principle of entanglement to facilitate communication that is totally safe against eavesdropping, let alone decryption, by a third party. By producing pairs of entangled photons, QUESS will allow ground stations separated by many thousands of kilometres to establish secure quantum channels.[3] QUESS itself has limited communication capabilities: it needs line-of-sight, and can only operate when not in sunlight.[8] "                Jim Bell On Monday, June 29, 2020, 12:43:08 AM PDT, таракан <cryptoanalyzers@protonmail.com> wrote: I quote the main title of the article: "Scientists in China managed to exchange a crypto key at a distance of over 1,000 kilometers" Wow! How can they do that? On Monday, 29 June 2020 г., 2:54, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote: Cointelegraph: Experts Split on Practical Implications of Quantum Cryptography. https://cointelegraph.com/news/experts-split-on-practical-implications-of-qu...

On Monday, June 29, 2020, 09:50:46 AM PDT, Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Jim put a lot of energy here into replying to a joke.

I'm not aware that: "Scientists in China managed to exchange a crypto key at a distance of over 1,000 kilometers"

"Wow!"

"How can they do that?" is a joke.  Although, in a way quantum mechanics can be described  as a cosmic joke played on physicists.  Somewhat akin to Kurt Godel's work being a joke played on mathematicians and logicians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del     Sometimes advances disrupt just about everything.  

Jim appears to be an electronics supergenius."

Strictly speaking, quantum entanglement and optical fibers are mostly physics, not electronics. So far, my main contribution to "electronics" is my second (unpublished) invention, which I allude to here: https://daltonium.com/ An isotope-modified dielectric which will be used in semiconductors, a further advance in the use of the element hafnium as a substitute for silica (SiO2)   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafnium_dioxide#:~:text=Hafnium%2Dbased%20oxid.... Applications[edit] Hafnia is used in optical coatings, and as a high-κ dielectric in DRAM capacitors and in advanced metal-oxide-semiconductor devices.[6] Hafnium-based oxides were introduced by Intel in 2007 as a replacement for silicon oxide as a gate insulator in field-effect transistors.[7] The advantage for transistors is its high dielectric constant: the dielectric constant of HfO2 is 4–6 times higher than that of SiO2.[8] The dielectric constant and other properties depend on the deposition method, composition and microstructure of the material.                [end of quote] And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-%CE%BA_dielectric "The term high-κ dielectric refers to a material with a high dielectric constant (κ, kappa), as compared to silicon dioxide. High-κ dielectrics are used in semiconductor manufacturing processes where they are usually used to replace a silicon dioxide gate dielectric or another dielectric layer of a device. The implementation of high-κ gate dielectrics is one of several strategies developed to allow further miniaturization of microelectronic components, colloquially referred to as extending Moore's Law. Sometimes, these materials are called "high-k" (spoken high kay), instead of "high-κ" (high kappa)."    [end of quote] Here, I must be cautious about referring to my invention, for reasons of obtaining a patent.  My Provisional patent application has 80 claims, only a small number of which refer to this new isotope-modified dielectric.                  Jim Bell On Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 4:48 AM jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote: Albert Einstein called it "spooky action at a distance".  He hated the concept of quantum mechanics, saying "God does not play dice with the Universe".  Unfortunately, Einstein was quite wrong.   The idea is that pairs of photons can be generated and can go virtually any distance, and then a measurement made on one of these photons essentially instantaneously determines the equivalent value of the other photon.  There is apparently no limit to the distance over which this can be done.  A few years ago I read that the apparent velocity of this connection is at least 10,000 times c, or the speed of light in a vacuum.  https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/news-blog/quantum-weirdnes-wins-again-entangl-2008-08-13/#:~:text=(In%202007%2C%20researchers%20transmitted%20entangled,two%20of%20the%20Canary%20Islands.)&text=But%20in%20reality%2C%20no%20experiment,times%20the%20speed%20of%20light. "The photons were indeed entangled, the group reports in Nature. But in reality, no experiment is perfect, so what they end up with is a lower limit on how fast the entanglement could be traveling: 10,000 times the speed of light." I'm not a good person to be explaining this to you:  My degree is in chemistry, not physics.  But read up on Bell's inequalities.  (different Bell!)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem    "Bell's theorem proves that quantum physics is incompatible with local hidden variable theories. It was introduced by physicist John Stewart Bell in a 1964 paper titled "On the Einstein Podolsky Rosen Paradox", referring to a 1935 thought experiment that Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen used to argue that quantum physics is an "incomplete" theory.[1][2] | | | | | | | | | | | Bell's theorem Bell carried the analysis of quantum entanglement much further. He deduced that if measurements are performed in... | | |  By 1935, it was already recognized that the predictions of quantum physics are probabilistic. Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen presented a scenario that, in their view, indicated that quantum particles, like electrons and photons, must carry physical properties or attributes not included in quantum theory, and the uncertainties in quantum theory's predictions are due to ignorance of these properties, later termed "hidden variables". Their scenario involves a pair of widely separated physical objects, prepared in such a way that the quantum state of the pair is entangled. "      [partial quote] Quantum communication over fiber optics has been done to a record distance of 50 kilometers.   Entanglement sent over 50 km of optical fiber | | | | | | | | | | | Entanglement sent over 50 km of optical fiber For the first time, a team has sent a light particle entangled with matter over 50 km of optical fiber. This pav... | | |      Ironically, I have actually made a major contribution to this field, although almost nobody realizes it yet.  The limit to the distance of quantum entanglement, 50 kilometers above, is based on the amount of optical loss present in the fiber.  Prior to my invention, and currently, the record for a low-loss single-mode optical fiber is by Sumitomo Electric, and is 0.1419 db/kilometer.      https://global-sei.com/company/press/2017/03/prs029.html#:~:text=Now%20Sumit.... Fiber optics scientists and engineers achieved a fiber loss of about 0.200 db/km in 1978, and about 0.160 by the mid-1980's.  They are apparently approaching a limit asymptotically, the limit defined by the presence of natural-quantities of spin-containing isotopes in silica.   In about December 2008, while stuck in a Federal prison cell at USP Tucson, Arizona, I realized that the cause of the residual loss in these fibers is the Si-29 and O-17 isotope atoms, and for Corning-type fibers (containing germania, or GeO2, dopant), the Ge-73 isotope atoms.  Remove these spin-containing isotopes from optical fiber silica, and it should be possible to drop the loss by at least a factor of 100, or to about 0.001db/kilometer. (Corning-type fibers use a core of 8% GeO2 and 92% SiO2, and pure silica in the cladding.   Sumitomo-type fibers use(s) a pure-silica core, and a fluorine-doped cladding.  Since there are fewer spin-containing isotopes in pure silica than in germania-doped silica, Sumitomo had/has a small loss advantage over Corning.) If this fiber is used for comunication between New York and Ireland, the hop should be achievable by a single, continuous fiber.  It will not need to contain the 40-odd EDFA  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_amplifier  amplifiers currently employed.   Similarly, if such fiber is used for a quantum link, it should be possible to do the link at least at a distance of 5000 kilometers, 100x better than the recent (2019) record. The Chinese have been doing entanglement experiments on a satellite named Micius.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Experiments_at_Space_Scale "QUESS is a proof-of-concept mission designed to facilitate quantum optics experiments over long distances to allow the development of quantum encryption and quantum teleportation technology.[7] Quantum encryption uses the principle of entanglement to facilitate communication that is totally safe against eavesdropping, let alone decryption, by a third party. By producing pairs of entangled photons, QUESS will allow ground stations separated by many thousands of kilometres to establish secure quantum channels.[3] QUESS itself has limited communication capabilities: it needs line-of-sight, and can only operate when not in sunlight.[8] "                Jim Bell On Monday, June 29, 2020, 12:43:08 AM PDT, таракан <cryptoanalyzers@protonmail.com> wrote: I quote the main title of the article: "Scientists in China managed to exchange a crypto key at a distance of over 1,000 kilometers" Wow! How can they do that? On Monday, 29 June 2020 г., 2:54, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote: Cointelegraph: Experts Split on Practical Implications of Quantum Cryptography. https://cointelegraph.com/news/experts-split-on-practical-implications-of-qu... There is proof inside many peoples' electronics.  Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus.  A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices.  A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit.

On 29/06/2020 20:09, jim bell wrote:

"/Scientists in China managed to exchange a crypto key at a distance of over 1,000 kilometers/"

Secure quantum communication is very tricky, and afaik the Chinese didn't do that, they just did some entangled photon measuring. First, the non-cloning theory doesn't say what most people think it does - it actually says that you can only clone a maximum of 5/6 of photons (technically 2/3 get cloned, plus half the remainder or 1/6 just happen to be the same orientation by chance). Second, you need a classically authenticated channel as well as the cloning channel to securely exchange keys - it doesn't have to be secret, but it does need to be authenticated. If Mallory can attack that authentication he can prevent key exchange, and in some cases can obtain the key. Although, in a way quantum mechanics can be described  as a

cosmic joke played on physicists.  Somewhat akin to Kurt Godel's work being a joke played on mathematicians and logicians.

More like Godel shoving a stick up their asses. Godel's first incompleteness theorem is simple: First, if a system of logic is complicated enough to contain the statement "this statement is a lie" then the system contains contradictions [*]. Second, any system of mathematics which is complicated enough to include natural arithmetic is complicated enough to contain that statement. That's not quite how Godel put it, but it's much the same result. Of course everyone already knew that really, but pretended it was just a curiosity so they could look for a universal system for all mathematics; the shock was just Godel pointing it out in a way that could not be ignored. I suspect that one day quantum mechanics may be seen exactly the same way. [*] statements which cannot be assigned a true or false value. A bit like qubits... Peter Fairbrother

On 6/29/2020 6:57 PM, Punk-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 23:54:43 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Cointelegraph: Experts Split on Practical Implications of Quantum Cryptography. https://cointelegraph.com/news/experts-split-on-practical-implications-of-qu... bullshit as usual. As far as I know so called 'quantum key distribution' needs an authenticated 'classical channel' to work, so it's completely pointless.

Also, my current guess/understanding is that there isn't any 'entanglement' at all.The "trusted-bird sends entangled pair, one to Alice, one to Bob" method uses entanglement, but needs a bigger satellite than the bird-in-the-middle approach. (According to the paper, it needs more

There seem to be two kinds of Quantum Crypto out there - the kind that needs a piece of fiber - the kind that lets you send your photons in free space between ground and satellite. The former's a very niche application, and doesn't protect you about things like pseudonymity vs contact tracing (because you follow the piece of fiber and see who's at the other end, or follow the money and see who's renting the fiber :-). It's more useful if your threat model is "Auditors" than "Spies"; otherwise you can send an extra diverse dude with a briefcase handcuffed to their arm for an initial authentication key exchange and then use another layer of Diffie-Hellman for authentication, maybe with an annoyingly long ECC key, while also printing the authentication public key in a classified ad in the NY Times or Pravda or Federal Register. The latter's "interesting"; I'm skeptical about its usefulness, but haven't looked into it deeply, beyond a quick read of https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1909/1909.13061.pdf There seem to be three approaches - one end-to-end quantum-protected hop (ground to bird to ground) - two (ground to bird-in-the-middle, bird-in-the-middle to ground) - two (trusted-bird sends entangled pair, one to Alice, one to Bob) Approach 1 doesn't appear to exist, approach 2 lets you use two prepare-and-measure channels (meh), approach three could be useful-ish than a 100kg satellite, as opposed to a single-end thing which can fit on an under-10kg cubesat.)