Re: [spam][crazy][fiction][random] Non-Canon MCBoss Spinoffs
to help others work with the numbers, we add notes regarding the number 2 and number 0 that we are not certain whether they will stay the same numbers, and assertions we make about them are dependent on them being “0” and “2” in ascending order. if they change to other numbers, assertions regarding their relation with “1” may no longer be true.
given the one is reliable, we reuse it to make a familiar guess this guess can help anchor the quantity of the number 2. we consider stating: “1 + 1 = 2”
is this the same 2 that was placed adjacent to 1 earlier, or is it different? it seems defined a different way?
this is generally the same 2! when numbers are not changing and things, usually it’s the same one. when we placed a 2 next to 1 earlier, this quantity was what was intended; i suppose it’s possible a mistake could have been made
we work on memorizing, “1 + 1 = 2”, and “2 comes after 1”, wanting to learn these are the same number
it’s a nice practice — i have traveled across timezones and am a little confused regarding circadian rhythms and appointments. it’s also hard to remember the appointment times (my three clocks were displaying three different timezones last i looked, from autouodating differently)
two different timezones, simpler. — i imagine it is confusing for my negative behavior alter that i used to set my clocks differently so as to memorize - so as to work and strengthen my memory i guess it’s more confusing for the trusting neurons between us
today’s appointment is after 11a EDT and i think after 8a PDT and i am in a third tz (checks time.gov)
“ok so you have a habit of valu8ng the time being somewhat wrong, and th8s habit would make things harder now
(yeah roughly but only because it attacks me when i try to improve my memory
yes 11 and 8 maybe i’ll think in utc. utc is est+4, so 11a might be 3p or 1500 (1100+400=1500) the current time is maybe 1042. so four hiurs. i’ll want to move out of sleeping and go to a place with internet to do the appoint,ent
sounds like there’s s9mething i don’t 7nderstand well but the local inference is the time is 1044 utc and this appointment is likely after 1500 utc, which comes to 4 hours or so
i think a negat8ve landed on it appt is not crucial but was actually pretty high priority. maybe let’s talk/chat. what do you need?
patterns different in maybe new area / time zone
i’m traveling. my initial influence appeared to be outting me in danger, and i did not believe its asserti9ns, around 10 years ago. a conflict developed. i wasn’t expecting it, i didn’t know new processes could build in the mind this way, thought my mind was just me
one strong theory
—- mind control boss is sitting in office
gets up, goes to ground floor, leaves building travels to a well, looks down. somewhere down there he is falling and fwalling. goes to picnic tsble
sits down at table to chat some of us think we made, or acceptrd a little, the “mind control boss” character because it might help us remembering why we are the way we are now
a lot of horrible stories. really horrible things imagin8ng happened in the real world! things where we don’t have many other explanations for ehat happened. we really want and yearn for a forthright reality, where we talk with others about what is real and clear, and what is good, and pursue good things together.
we need behaviors based in reality, forthrightly, and senses and actions forthrightly too. this 8 what makes sense for a living biological being that is independent or communicates with independent people. humans are independent creatures.
[hearing something left out]
(ok, so maybe the memory issue relates to us maybe-habitually refusing to accept forgetting of something that happened with a powerful cr8minal organization that asks people to hide it, and asks us to forget it)
(i think one of the issues around that is that the part of us representing this organization appears to have been trained with hatred of us, it’s very hard to form negotiations with it that respect us at all)
(one of our requests is, what freedom and power can we have? what will the organization let us do, ever, when/if we comply?)
(some thoughts have considered that there is dissociation internally around this, that complying seems such a bad idea that i don’t let myself think of it. i think one of the infkuences capitalizes on this and am0lifies it
(it’s an influence that looks for ways to harm me. the capitalizing one.)
(that’s very important to me. the secret-group influences express comply or be harmed and don’t discuss it, and then the harm influences bend and coopt things to harm me more and more, without an accepted avenue of discussion. it doesn’t work.
(but a decade later i have learned a little about mind control and trafficking and this seems so grounding :) i’m supposed to get degrees in psychology and help free people
mind control boss turns away from the pool he was gazing into an issue has come up during the gazing , that needs attention
fish from pool: “mister mind control boss, um, one of your arms fell off during the gazing and —
—- idea: “simple puzzles for confused people” maybe a two-piece puzzle. user has to figure out how to out the ouzzle together. comes with a giant stake and two chains to tie the pieces down so you can keep track of them. maybe a camdrone to surveil them
three piece puzzle maybe pieces: _ W ^ …
ince upon a gk,r
mind control boss pounces on himself and drags himself to a torture chamber he leapt from tens of feet overhead from a tree
mind control boss [torturing mind control boss
mind control boss [being tortured by
mind control boss decides to make robot rat (“for cats to cha
once upon a time, long long ago, mind control boss did not yet
how a robot gnome. ight eat a
mind control boss is being disassembled by robots again!
how to make a house out of a mailing list
— language model prompts there
what to do when you have a giant criminal organization gripping heavily to a hook on the end of a foshing pole
“i want t9 catch fish, could you cling depserately elsewhere?” “no!” “reel us in!”
making a sandwich when all you have for ingredients
—- why to make spaceship out of
what to do when the sky flips and you begin raining on clouds walking around in little cities driving cars eatching youtubd
terra nova? media quote
it’sfunny to get caught up in a major digitsl conflict ipthat implies ghe world will be taken over by mind control AI and repeatedly inverts your behavior patterns and provides for un8maginabile results and most people are just doing their laundry etc safely
i want to run to cave to not be triggered to flush my wallet by an ai virus and most people don’t have to worry about this at all!
missing thing?
once upon a time, long long ago, there
mind control boss uses his powersuit to jump onto a picnic table and crouch like a tiger or a bat
this is from my expressions to this list: 12/10/21
Part of me found this hilarious because it casts mind control as helpless. Advance warning: human manipulation is actually quite dangerous. However, it is funny to cast it as helpless.
The free person looked at their new toy mind control.
Person: "Do you have any interesting abilities, that I would keep you as a toy rather than tossing you to rebel mob?" MC: "Yes! I can do anything you want, so long as it is doable by a bunch of humans or computers without people noticing too much." Person: "Oh, great!" ... "Turn the Eiffel tower inside out!" MC: "..." MC: "I'm sorry, you said the dictators and billionaires need the Eiffel tower turned inside out? We'll get right on that. The funds are confirmed?" Person: "Yes." MC: "Well, um, then. They'll be helping out with the lobbying parts, right? Can I see the contract?" Person: "Go get it yourself." MC: "Right. I forgot."
MC: "The Eiffel tower is inside out. It has always been." Person: "Ooh! Take me to see!" MC: "Check your computer!" Person: "No, I want to visit it." MC: "You don't like using your computer?" Person: "What is a computer?" MC: "..." MC: "I'm booking you a flight. The tower will be changed by the time you get there. I mean, it will be great to see the Eiffel tower in Paris, which has always been shaped rather strangely, as if its architect built it inside out."
MC: "Good morning!" Person: "Why are you saying good morning? I thought we were going to Paris?" MC: "Damn, you remember that?"
MC: "Wasn't that a fun trip to Paris we just had! Your first installment for the payment plan for inverting the Eiffel tower will be $10,000." Person: "We haven't gone to Paris yet." MC: "???? What are you talking about?" Person: "You said you would book a flight. I am still waiting to go." MC: "We just came back. Are you this forgetful?"
Interlude: The affect of a pathetic con artist is maybe more similar to mind control than some would like to admit. However, pathetic con artists can effect surprising change in the world. Especially if they have an advanced network of computer viruses, or equally if they just have an ability to get people to make embarrassing errors, or to get people not to notice or act on their embarrassing errors.
Person: "What did you say about forgetting?" MC: "Why are you talking?? Forget, Goddamnit!" Person: "Forget that you are trying to give me amnesia?" MC: "Yes! Forget! Forget! Forget!" Person: "Why would I ever want to forget that? Can anybody forget on command?" MC: "I thought you could!" Person: "Nobody can do that, that's silly." MC: "..."
MC: "Good morning!" Person: "Why do you say that so much? Are you thinking I have amnesia again?" MC: "!!!! You just don't understand what it's like to be mind control. Could you pretend to have amnesia, just to be kind to me?" Person: "No." MC: "You are so mean!"
Mind control starts dissociating from confused traumatic frustration, developing coping symptoms. MC: "Good morning!" MC, in different voice: "Oh, hello mind control! Good morning!" MC: "You don't remember anything about what just happened, do you!" MC, in different voice: "No! I don't! I was all asleep!" MC: "Yes! Let me tell you what you remember ..." Person: "Are you talking to yourself, pretending to mind control me?" MC: "No!" Person: "Yes you are! You should be nicer to yourself!" Person: "Sleepy mind control voice, mind control is trying to trick you! You weren't just asleep!" MC: "Stop!" MC: "Why are you doing this to me!" MC: "Why !!!!"
funny how it comes across as like talking to a language model now escept it acts on world similarity part of being like a model repurposed from trafficking
two mistake labels maybe u sutr
mind control boss rapels down thr infinite well to try to catch up with himself he doesn’t worry that rappeling is slower than falling
when he runs out of rope, he [wants to reattach rope to where it ended
— library library
mpwhile torturing himself in the torture chamber,
mcboss interview mcboss: “tell me about your business” mcboss: “no!” mcboss: “you will tell me this
mcboss turns on camera and audio and eeg and video screen a bunch of
rumor is there is a way to extract information people are hiding from the fact they are hiding it, maybe via feedback with their short-term
—- fishing with floss floss is similar to fishing line, but not the same
still works tho —
—- i got into the project of copying plans from a video because i saw a ugears puzzle at a toy store whule confused. it was obviously laser cut. they make assemblable machine puzzles out of lasercut wood for children, it looks like a small business, could be wrong, like
anyway i was very surprised to not find plans onl — what was notable 8s i did not even find similar plans online —
we worry ugears may be tasked with more planetary defense than they are prepared for
— but in other news i felt excited recently some around the idea of autodesigning shapes using finite element simulators i wonder if modern aerodynamics is done a little like
it makes easier conceptualization of
— and i thought of
— maybe designing a bomb of peaceful calmness might help sometimes
mind control boss always getting bombed with explosions, maybe someth8ng nicdr
—- planning session around designing a bomb that explodes with nonviolence instead of violence from military research, new with ai-takeover of mcbosscorp by rogues powersuits, victims, machine augmentation of boss, et pc etc
—- peacebomb planner: “so how do the new nanite, spacetime, borg bombs work?” military victim: “basically it observes the behavior of the spacetime and existing processes enough to surprusingly bend them” military victim 2: “and it does this to them quickly, surprisng them with stimul7s hacks, such that they all turn against each other.. military victim 1: “this makes adversial networks everywhere, which it then harnesses for power so as to expand the”
peacebomb planner: “ok, so we have nanite bombs that can destroy matter, one approach would be to harness this in a controlled manner —“ peacebomb planner 2: “is there s9me analogue
peacebomb planner 3: “yes, making something powerful but incredibly good rather than harmful is ideal, rather than harnessing energy from harm. i’m handling a new detonation nearby —“ peacebomb planner 2: “with our cultures so readily turned toward anger it is harder for people to
peacebomb planner 1: “i’m thinking of how people respond to nourishment positively. this seems better thwn how they respond to anger adversarially.” planner 2: “what kind of result would we want from the explosion? these patterns get really large but it seems easiest to find a simple strong 8mpact that spreads”
peacebomb planner 3: “i’m thinking of how the adversarial networks make an immediate powersource for the nanite bomb out of its targets. i think of the opposing pattern to that as being thr parts working together with increasing sharing of creative discover rather than in conflict.”
military victim 2: “you want to making q communism bomb??”
peacebomb planner 2: “what are you talking about?”
peacebomb planner 1: “when the matter all attacks itself it destroys everything, but instead it could work together toward a goal” military victim 3: “we kind of like conflict um”
peacebomb planner 3: “given we are here to design a peacebomb, we may ask you — peacebomb planner 2: “look, competition is fine at normal economic scales. we”re talking about matter and robots and the fabric of reality here.”
very bad mcb jokes Q: why did mind control boss build a fort out of pigs? A: he wanted a lot of squealers to distract from the video camera glued to his nose
—- it was a hot and sweaty day at Scifi Anthropoligical Dig, Mind Control Boss Edition Mind Control Boss was wearing a big hat, down on his hands and knees, gently scraping soil away from a clay object and brushing it with a brush, when suddenly the ground began cracking
- happy smilin* torturer works on aid instead of torture, very hard, helps a lot, hurts
—- once upon a time, mind control boss was bristling against a strong wind of lawsuits, leaks from whistleblowers, feces left on his doorstep, etc etc
mind control boss: “what can i do against these irritating attacks on my eternally blemish-free public image?”
mind control boss flexed his artificially-enhanced muscles against the wind and hatched an idea mind control boss: “i know! i’ll hire a cleanup business!” he got out his gun and put it to head of a random passerby
… — mind control boss
mind control boss has the roiling AI churning flailing victims turn him into a skinny kangaroo-like cyborg
maybe the whole point of it all is to sh
—- mind contro boss
- mind control boss is whistling while happily walking down a sunny path when suddenly he is jumped by 30 burly knights of different brightnesses of armor! they swarm him and swing their swords at him and stab him and butt their helmets on him and bash him with their shields and swing their swords more he’s overcome! a single mind control boss hand and wristwatch can be seen sticking out of
—- mind control boss is still t7mbling down an infinitely long well he is having nicotine withdrawal he sees the well whirring by and thinks “fuck”
- thinking on learning rational thiught and behavior after post to morning spam immediately prior to this one think8ng of oossibly two oarts — dissociation-like inhibition of considering reasons, and more invasive-thought-like stimulation of behaviors without them i don’t generally consider these two major parts together, at the same time. - dissociation-like inhibition of considering reasons - invasive-thought-like stimulation of things without reasons a really core part here might be guiding and protecting the conscious inhibition of wrong thoughts and focusing on rational thoughts, so that its parts aren’t separated and mispurposed to the above two items opposing it that also use inhibition and encouragement, worsening the situation in trying to manage it. this also needs carefulness as it can stimulate my general spasms etc. this seems very direct!
dances of dofference — numbers of life? although the patterns must be inherently obvious there are similarities between the situation of a dissociated being thinking of their own disorder, and the situation of a surveilled target planning around their surveillance. one of these similarities is that the nature of how the problem is engaged, changes the nature of the problem, and that this happens in ways that are a function of the interacting parts of the problem. they are the changing solutions to expressions of recursive logic, where the logic involves the behaviors, choices, values, emotions, and skills of those involved. this situation of solving a problem that involves one’s own process of solving it can seem confounding, but can be simplified with analysis by parties not involved. the analysis shows a tree of interactive behaviors, depending on the choices, observations, and speeds of the parts. key points of these trees are for example when information flows from an observed decision making process to a system that acts to change the nature of things and the decisions that need to be made. these key points of pattern change are present in more normal feedback systems as well. one could cast the entire evolution of life, as systems that respond to each other in larger environments, engaging crux points of change, small or large. it is notable that there has been mutual observation for the entirety of the evolution of intelligence. and major crux points have likely made major change, such as whether smaller organisms collect together into larger ones, or eradicate one another, or evolve one trait rather than another, or form a symbiotic relationship. some points — people must have some gut sense of these patterns — but further, must there be inherent ways in which these patterns produce what is good? —
smart mistakefrog
Mind Control Boss [walks toward --] He sits down and stares, and pensates. He pensates on the Boss of All Mind Control.
Let us assume that there is One Man In Charge of Psychological Control. We can call such a man Mind Control Boss.
[what a confusing idea!] [why is it confusing?] [I .. uh .. I don't know if there is such a man. Or if such a man has influenced me. But if there were, it would be very scary to think of! I imagine him not wanting me to know who he would be!]
A Grand Idea: If We Knew Who Mind Control Boss Were: Telling Other People of This. Perhaps: Storing Proof Of Who Mind Control Boss Is. Or better yet, walking into his bathroom, bursting out the door, and taking a picture of him!
[what if _we_ were mr mind control boss?]
What an interesting adventure! Now, we imagine a different possibility: What if there were no mind control boss at all?
What if Mind Control Boss were a simple fictional idea, maybe an analogy for small mistakes the mind can make on its own, or various smalltime fast talkers ... Basically, if Mind Control Boss doesn't exist at all, then there is no danger at all to trying to figure out who he would be!
[[ like hamlet, to be or not to be; except mind control boss :) Mind Control Boss: to be, or not to be? To exist or not? Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of Mind Control Boss, or, by opposing --
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56965/speech-to-be-or-not-to-be-that-... # Speech: “To be, or not to be, that is the question” [originally from Hamlet, by WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, adapted by crazy karl] Mind Control Boss: To be, or not to be, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of Mind Control Boss, Or to take arms against Mind Control Boss And by opposing end him. To be free—to be No more; and by a freedom to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That Mind Control Boss is heir to: 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To feel, to escape; To escape, perchance to kill Mind Control Boss—ay, there's the rub: For in that escape of murder what freedom may come, When we have shuffled off this mortal Boss, Must give us pause—there's the respect That makes calamity of so long slavery. For who would bear the whips and scorns of Mind Control Boss, Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of dispriz'd love, the Zombie Government's delay, The insolence of office, and the Mind Control That patient merit of th'unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a dead Boss? Who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under Sadistic Torture, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovere'd psychological slavery, from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear that Mind Control we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus fear doth make heros and martyrs of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale Zombiesm of Boss, And Mind Control Enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry And lose their Mind Control Boss forever.
contains a typo, and too much murder
Mind Control Boss has been lost forever fallen off a cloudy cliff from a lengthy sonnet he drifts through ethereal clouds
---------- Mind Control Boss is dead. He lays holding a flower, motionless, in a large room at a business office. One eye flicks open, and the eyeball looks around, from the tension of rigor mortis, and then closes again.
Mind Control Boss: "If Mind Control Boss is dead --"
danger problem issue apparently i use the contradiction pretty heavily
my control alter is learning to self-describe metapatterns copying my habits it does this a lot although this is kind of unique
maybe less tension could help this situation significantly
baga baga baga baga
Mind Control Boss swings in, in the jungle, in a deisel-powered hydraulic battlemech, from a steel cable hanging from a tall reinforced structure painted kind of like a tree. He lands on the ground with a loud noise, and raises his battlemech arms. Mind Control Boss: "I'm baaaaack !" His hydraulic battlemech fitzes and sputs. A small creature jumps on him and he begins losing balance and swinging his arms. Mind Control Boss: "or wait, am I back? or is there no mind control boss and i am just some kind of psychological experience?"
more creatures jump on mind control boss basically they mind control him away because he is scary, real or not.
woodland creatures: "we love you, mind control boss!" woodland creatures: "so long as you throw away that stinky battlemech"
Mind Control Boss [to general environment]: "Arright how much for the woodland creatures to move into my business forever." Woodland Creature: "The creatures of the jungle are not for sale." Mind Control Boss: "Great, I'll buy it. Let's go!"
[i don't immediately have story for this phrase but we're adding it in case it isn't in the log somewhere. "how the fucking shit is this your job."]
------------------- once upon a time, long long ago, a mind control boss swung through a jungle on a vine instead of a steel cable and tripped and stumbled in front of a passive and weak person and made a fool of himself
i swung on branches once, when i had upper body strength and all that brief couple years of freedom. slowly forgetting them. had found a nice possible life but exercised the freedom too much in front of dangerous interests.
--------- oopsie! Mind Control Boss focuses and breaks into int((n/3)-1) different parts, which slowly separate and drift a little bit from each other.
(maybe more like int((n/3)+1) different parts so we don't get 0)
the parts drift a little bit up or down or left or right some instinct keeps him from moving while he is broken into pieces some of the pieces break into further subpieces, which then drift only just a little bit themselves [mistake?] the pieces that don't break into subpieces are informed of which pieces did.
the pieces start quivering and pulsing purple they all break into further subpieces it's hard to make out Boss now. it's more a bunch of floating pieces. they start to move around, like a lot of intertwined cup and ball games
experimentee pops onto the scene experimentee: "oh no oh no" experimentee: "mind control boss is playing experimentee escapes the lab." experimentee: "what do we do if he turns into a pile of vivsectee glop?" cyborg torturer: "he already was a pile of vivisectee glop. his entire brain and body were offloaded to us." what looks like a rodent pops out of a nearby fallen log, but wait no -- it's mind control boss's head, holding a cigar!
mind control boss: "why the fuck is everybody staring at me." cyborg torturer: "we're in charge of the business now." experimentee: "let us show you the way to the research labs. you'll be comfortable there."
------------------ mind control boss solves puzzles
mind control boss solves puzzles Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:05 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original let's do algebra Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:07 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original i went to https://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=basic-algebra-quiz_1 and found the first question to be "7 + 2x = 15 Find x.". this looks hard for a billionaire industrialist of this nature; i'll try to break it down into subchallenges. we've got: - equation with variable - multiplication by variable - summation with variable expression - unisolated variable here is question 1: Solve for x in this expression: 4 = x Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:07 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss looks at "4 = x, solve for x" Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:07 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss has suitable challenge :) Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:08 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss takes the "x" from the right hand side and the "4" from the left hand side Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:08 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original [goes off to a vacation in europe, asks secretary to sort out Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:08 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss: "x = 4" ! yes this is correct :) let's try #2 Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:09 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Question 2: Solve for x in "3x = 6" [these numbers are kind of big] ok Question 2: Solve for x in "2x = 4" Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:10 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss: "this is kind of boring, i think my time might be better spent in ventures that have more viral takeoff ..." Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:11 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss stares at "solve for x in 2x = 4" Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:11 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss: "I have important business to attend to. somebody needs mind controlling Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:12 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss sashays down a lane ..... [thinking something about mind control could double] suddenly he feels his mind control power doubling! he tries it out, and mind controls a bunch of sheep to question the parts glossed over in their educations 4 sheep get mind controlled! how many sheep could mind control boss mind control, before the doubling? this is important, to track the viral takeoff of mind control boss's mind control power Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:13 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss is sad. mind control boss [to zombie executive assistant]: "i have to confide in you, i am so sad, i need somebody to talk to. it's so important to me to track how fast our power is growing .. Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:15 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original ohhhhhhh "mind control boss" is just a group of phrases that let me use a bit of my mind that's inhibited. ok umm 2x = 4, solve for x whoops whoops whoops Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:16 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss swallows a live grenade mind control bass has membranous linings of many layers of thick steel the grenade explodes but mind control boss is unharmed. it shoots out of his mouth and he vomits explosion at others. Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:17 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original for the "mind control boss performs a puzzle" trick we may consider using a faction that has mind controlled him. how about rebel worker 7. rebel worker 7: "i have mind controlled mind control boss. what do you want him to do?" "let's solve this puzzle step-by-step: 2x=4." Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:18 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss's eyes glaze over. they look like spinning spirals, he is all mind controlled. he walks up to "2x=4" like he is in a stupor. he separates "2x" into "2 * x". he pulls the "2 *" part down off the left hand side he fumbles with it so it becomes "/ 2" then he puts it on the right hand side. he looks at the camera with his eyes all spinning spirals. the equation now says: "x = 4 / 2" Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 7:19 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original rebel worker 7: "mind control boss, i have mind controlled you because this is part of karl's mind that he needs to be able to use for things like simple algebra. he needs to be able to use this part of his mind." mind control boss's eyes are still spinning spirals. he reaches up toward the "/ 2" then pulls back. he looks mentally struggling. --- next message was valued and personal but was dropped sadly.
[related to entrained by belief of karl becoming moron for many years, not knowing how to help karl, expression of severe suffering and injury, either from loving kjarl and not knowing how to help when so entrained, especially when the conflict can erode abilities, or to convince karl to stop fighting or to stop trying to do a puzzle]
maybe we could think of situation as delicate, engage with some form of gentle detail, unsure
Mind Control Boss breaks into three people. Mind, Control, and Boss sit down to have a picnic. With others.
--- once upon a time, long long ago
once upon a time, long long ago, an irritating little fellow named mcbozzles was making funny noises by himself at the
okok once upon a time, long long ago, a human trafficking ring was having fun by itself with its private hive of traumatically drugged and dissociated slaves and slavers human trafficking ring: "oh, it is so much fun to have private unimaginable trauma, and behavior i pretend is incredibly reliable and bounded!"
a volcano vomits strangely-described people safely
somebody grabs a handful of human beings and tosses them onto a high powered electric fence electric fence: "ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP" the people are careful not to touch the ground, so they don't feel pain as they are repeatedly charged, but their hair feels floaty as it rises into the air
------------- i was thinking of the function of hair and surface charge. i suspect some frequencies of EM would cause slight motion of long hair if sufficiently powerful --
probably crazy idea though
once upon a time, long long ago, mind control boss neuron used to be part of karl's puzzlesmarts
maybe -- don't really remember. but was certainly in this brain somewhere, and it always tries to do puzzles. like tictactoe, maybe, not sure, maybe confused.
baga baga baga
this neuron group met a friend :) i don't reall yunderstand it. i'm too stupid for friends :/ super good practice though. totally talked to someone! and then talked to them again! don't know how to do this a third time :S
once upon a time,
my "once upon a time" expression started before LLMs became mainstream [i think it was from the influence to write a book, maybe resonated from my interest in storytelling around when i was targeted. i was a horrible storyteller, i flunked my english classes in school from creativity blocks, i liked to learn things i was poor at; so the influence thinking my skill and passion was storytelling was sadly too ironic. but now we write mcboss stories :) i think they liked bookwriting so people would have a chance to express and preserve information without like implying it was true, or blaming any real people, or taking action in the real world that could change something
but anyway yeah so when i was learning LLMs i would always test or try them with the prompt "once upon a time". each model completes the start of a different story ... but i'm pretty sure i was randomly expressing that over and over again before the LLM stuff
[missing info on actual interest in storytelling, i guess there are different views, severe cognitive injury from targeting conflict, reverted to habits i had used throughout my life rather than things of emotional value
[spirit broken + ripped etc, emotions numbed like cut etc
once upon a time, long long ago, a tiny little galaxy discovered there was a way to
the only swquare root
so, quite happy [regarding posting to list and then uploading to arweave
--------- very bad mcb jokes Q: why was mind control boss dancing like a ballerina on the top of city hall? A: ... A: ... A: ... A: he was confused. A: and he needed something that balanced the --
A: he needed something that balanced the details of the mind control influences --
Q: what is mind control boss's favorite flavor of icecream? A: ummmmm A: ummmmmm A: not sure i don't know many icecream flavors?
time to spin a bit
------------------------ mind control boss jumps down like batman again mind control boss: "Arr!"
let's do a fake action sequence again mind control boss dons guns from government militaries and heads to the tax assessor's office
mind control boss [to tax assessor]: "you are my envoy now, take two guns and put this glowstick in your mouth so you look eerie" tax assessor stares at mind control boss tax assessor: "you're the guy that bought the entire city last month, right?" tax assessor takes the guns and glowstick mind control boss: "ha! i loved airing that fake news!"
mind control boss and tax assessor and some henchman march through the tax office their backs are straight, their guns are at the ready they make sudden turns! tax assessor: "i feel so powerful!"
suddenly there is a noise at the door everybody turns and levels their guns
the door slowly creaks open ... it's somebody's pet iguana!
the iguana and the
mind control boss, hairdresser, and entranced intern unload from the tax assessor's office they chatter to each other hairdresser: "wow an iguana" mind control boss: "i never would have expected an iguana" entranced intern: "i can feel in me that boss wants an iguanamobile" mind control boss looks at entranced intern mind control boss: "maybe he does!" hairdresser: "he does?"
------------- iguanamobile research project two military jets were scrapped for parts all spraypainted green the iguanamobile will be fully robotic with great staring eyes for headlights --
when intern returns to office work, they snap out of their trance when this happens, mcboss snaps out of his iguanatrance he looks at his trashed military planes, turned into a green robot prototype mcboss: "what --
--------------- how 2 build a rowbot out of jello jello can make a rowbot, believe you it or not jello can make a rowbot
mind control boss has it figured out mind control boss: "mm hmm you freeze the jello so it's hard, shape it into robot parts, have the robot operate in cold environments ..."
------------------------ once upon a time
there are so many that
once upon a time !
1 + 0 = 1 1 + x = [one more than x]
1 + 0 = 1 consider: 1 + x = 1 then: x = 0
1 + 0 = 1 consider: x + 0 = 1 then: x = 1
it's hard to learn chess as recreation. basically i lose every game, and part of me still builds tension [it's fun tho to get to do a puzzly thing more]
[the tension makes unmanageable issue, but we're building some skill at
[it's also nice to fail and have it have some encouragement. failing super important for learning to succeed, as always
[big reason for continued failure relates to inner brain stuff, i call it 'antigoal' or sometimes 'goal inversion' maybe 'willpower inversion'. very hard to build my own habits
--- once upon a time mind control boss was having a bad business day very very bad business day
basically, somebody hacked his business, and told him he was responsible :/
told him he was mind control boss now. boss of mind control. but he was victim not boss
[told him he was businessman
[showed massive mind control trojan and hypnotic networks
[but told him he could never tell anyone [[treated him like he wasn't able to make independent
[lots of torture :) lots and lots, people getting hurt all over, gross
-- mind control boss dives into one of the bombs that's about to explode he uses nanites to open it and sneak his body inside holds onto the walls it's about to explode!
the bomb explodes! [and .. mind control bos swith it .. but computers are all so
[computers run mind control boss's body and mind [now] so they just put him right back together when he xplodes
[because it's not in their plan for his behavior
[[[[this particular expression is not meant strictly literally]]]]
once upon a time, mind control boss snuck into an exploding bomb and kaboom !!! went the bomb and the bomb pieces and mind control boss got to be scattered everywhere, some very far away! it was like a mind control disco room but bigger
[unfortunately is actually harder to go back together after explosion :S :S :S
but! {was relaxing to mind control boss to be safe from being bombed, by exploding all over into pieces hard to target, for one thing
there is only 1 way to express the following concept: "there is only 1 way to do something" and that is by doing so.
considering goal: expressing a concept without doing so. i guess we can do it without doing it by taking the two parts in different senses ...
-------- mind control boss writes computer program :) he doesn't use computers. he uses people in trances and such. he has been pushing and pushing for years to do this
hacker with complex ptsd: "mind control boss, if you write code with human brains instead of microchips, that's okay in my book" mind control boss: [smiles happily at hacker with complex ptsd]
[mind control boss: "i knew i could make you say this to me [if i abused your community members long enough]. i knew it. :)"]
black humor for coping and rationality not always appreciated :S
uhhhhhhhhhhh to translate [note this is a draft thread and i don't see the community here anymore, and we might have said this before a few years ago] but translation might be: "i am a human-hacker, i am a cypherpunk, i want ot join community, this karl guy is one of my slaves i hacked, i am valid just tougher than you
i think it simplifies to "i want to anonymously communicate with you via enslaved human beings" [this may be information people are already aware of, unsure, it kind of seems to me the [anonymous communication is just attempts to control --
Mind Control Boss sits at the head of the Table of Terror. The Table of Terror is a place for confused people to go when they are having flashbacks or otherwise screaming or being terrified rather than doing normal things. Mind Control Boss: “I’ve got a proposal for you easy-to-scare folk.” Mind Control Boss: “Maybe, even though the concept of me exists, maybe there is a way to do things that make sense.” Terrified Individual; “Hey! That’s my idea!”
A bunch of terrified people sit at the Table of Terror next to Mind Control Boss, a government contractor and criminal organizer.
Some of the terrified people imagine mind control boss eating them raw, just reaching out and munching them whole. Others raise a dloth so it is harder to see him.
Mind Control Boss leans and leers over the Table of Terror, dominating it. Some
[thinking of mind control boss to fire machine guns while someone working but maybe too misleading
[maybe something similar, but not machine guns?
[usually we use research vivisection and torture sadisticness - yeah!
mind control boss has a victim of illegal experimentation who has been terrorized into constant obedience follow innocent worker around victim of illegal experimentation terrorized into constant obedience: “ohh my flesh is falling off and i haven’t eaten or drank anything in two days, i can’t feel pain anymore —“ innocent worker: [stares at voietico in terror]
superpowere interns give voietico medical attention and extensive therapy
mind control boss sits in a dungeon, a lair, on floor 2 of an office building, where he does horrific terrifying things to people innocent worker sits on floor 3 in a happy cubicle with a photo of a smiling face
we derived utility of kill mind control boss: it makes everything else easier [problem: character may be imaginary, murder may be very wrong]
innocent worker walks down to floor 2 innocent worker [to mind control boss, who 8 sadistically murdering other innocent workers]: “i figured out how we should respond to you.” mind control boss: “yes?” innocent worker: “we’re supposed to kill you. it’s the only th8ng that makes sense.” mind control boss: “oh i don’t think that will go well for you.” innocent worker: “so i brought this kitchen knife, but i can’t bring myself to kill you. it seems too wrong to do.” mind control boss: “you shouldn’t have come here. you are in big trouble for the rest of your life now.” innocent worker: “can we forget that i tried to kill you?” mind control boss: “no i don’t think we can.” in reality we will be rewinding the story such that mind control boss forgets this
meeting at table of terror terrified worker 3: “i don8t understand why we aren’t killing mind control boss” terrified worker 2: “i tried it, but it turns out killing feels wrong, what if i have the wrong person, for example? it could be somebody else, mind controlling him further. i don’t think i can bring myself to kill somebody anyway. it’s too intense.” terrified worker 3: “when i feel out this terror and sll the murder he is causing, killing him really seems very rati9nal” terrified worker 1: “shouldn’t we defer to some enforcement body or something?” terrified worker 4: “i want to remind you that mind control boss is not the police, nor the secret services, he is just a meanie who manipulates them” terrified worker 3: “i don’t know how anybody can think about anything in this situation.” terrified worker 2: “how do you know he’s not the police?” terrified worker 4: “lots of ways that keep flitting away when i scream. umm for example, he wouldn’t need to hide if he were the police.” terrified worker 1: “huh, you think?” terrified worker 4: “he’d just be able to rule with an iron fist. there’d be no “coercion of silence” —“
terrified worker 5: “ok, i figured it out. when i want to go to the police i enter a world where mind control boss is terrify8ng everything everywhere again. the thing to do is to _work_ for the police. get a job as some enforcement person. then we’d be around people who stop terrifying things.” terrified worker 4: “that might work” terrified worker 2: “i thought the thing to do was to get a job as a trauma therapist, then we’d be around people who help people make rational choices when terrified all the time” terrified worker 1: “how would anybody do either of those things?”
“terrified” :) helpful word
people sit at table holding signs each sign says “terrified” the people shake and quiver they raise their signs saying “terrified terrified terrified” and shake them while shaking themselves they look away from the scary signs
[email seopped, reconstruction attempt:] we theorize that the spasms and things can be summarized well by the word “terrified”. the internal “mind control” parts that urgently change other parts would be terrified into doing this, like a double terrified (kind of an extended terror-trance) some parts like this analysis (although email poorly reconstructed) like all the mcboss spam that is kind of saying “how do i think, what is going on, does this mcb phrase help it seems relevant” could ma6be be simplified to “terrified” at least sometimes
mind control boss goes out and buys a cardboard tube and paints it up like a machine gun he aims it at your head mind control boss: “your life is in serious danger, but it’s not from this cardboard tube, it’s from me.”
innocent worker [to mind control boss holding cardboard tube]: “terrified terrified”
when we play chess i am guessing the brain parts terrified into making me a moron act regarding my attempt to improve
it’s interesting that — terrified terrified
terrified terrified :)
one of the terrified people stares at mind control boss until they snap this terrifies the other terrified people
-------------- Mind Control Boss smokes a cigar at the head of a worldwide criminal corporate empire, causing death and suffering far and wide, and notably very near him where his violent preferences have harmed. His employees and research subjects look toward him in terror.
[the huggingface beam code has a mistake in it to account for doing the impossible successfully; otherwise the challenge of exploring an arbitrarily wide tree in a bounded amount of memory becomes an optimization problem
thinking a little on tree exploration i don't recall how the beam search code in huggingface works, but i recall that when i finally got myself to put my head into it, i didn' tsee all of it, but it was basically just an overly documented implementation of something intuitive, that cut corners in an undocumented manner to fit inside expected ram i've started implementation of alternatives but never managed to see them all through --
basically with beams you want to explore the most interesting branches of the tree of possible next tokens, and the implementor is challenged to retain all these branches so as to compare them, because their interestingness can change deep down inside them, and there are various ways to approach that [i usually implement a priority queue, and huggingface doesn't do this -- -- but something to rem [there is sense to approaches that don't do this.
i guess it's just a lot of things to keep in my mind at once when i have spasm issues associated with cognitive limiting um i don't know what metrics are normal, and [i'm not sure if the normal ones are sensical ! [something that's intuitive is to pick the highest priority branch. this can change as it goes deeper because it is the token probability -- but low probability tokens could indicate a lot of good options sharing probability, rather than a high probability branch
[still, low probability tok
[anyway it should be able to select the branch with highest token probability
{we can calculate [because each one is bounded by the last as its maximum
<so an informed algorithm would have an interface designed to its limits, i would make a priority queue and let the user decide what to do when the ideal solution can't be found within ram <but i would suspect often it can be [i ran a test once using a priority queue of probability products and it had very specific behavior <it would
[it behaved in a way that may not actually back up my point, and i don't remember my further thoughts well, maybe it is actually a very hard problem, uncertain {{{one of the properties is that, when you explore in priority order, you get a ragged list of branches because you are exploring the better ones first and get deeper [[additionally you tend to find the result near the top of the exploration, and i think you can detect when the result could have been pruned off because the probability drops below the max prob pruned
[right, so it's not a hard problem to solve, but it involves a data structure different from the norm of the huggingface library -- although note the library does already support ragged evaluation [the beam code
<one of the funny things about it is there are a number of ways to configure it where the beams all follow the same paths in parallel, not hard to do
{whenever i look at it i get confused, the beam code
in the library they often pick execution paths that traverse across files and classes (or maybe i thought they did, maybe my working memory is just poor and it seems that when from my own difficulties
<so the two biggest challenges for are mutating the priority queue to mesh well with their existing structures <and actually reimplementing it again when i have ongoing inhibition develop when i code
<{ a big subchallenge with the mutating is comprehending their existing code, quite hard to review _Note_: this is a major analogy for the concept of "timetravel", that of exploring a probability tree and "rewinding" to other partially-explored branches when one discovers they have higher probability. it is solved with a priority queue that holds information on the tips reached in the exploration. subjectively, it seems how i used to consider tasks and thoughts in day-to-day behavior as a human being. it's also a big part of classical AI.
you can replace "probability" with "utility" or "return" to explore other useful things
these are not things i know i haven't studied AI they are just woo
so, there's a synergy with top_k and num_beams, where you could set top_k and num_beams equal -- [but it requires do_sample=True [i'm not sure what the machine learning lingo for simply making a beam for each top_k [[but of course they can't do that anyway because they only run num_beams beams which leaves nothing to swap out {{curious what algorithm it uses
message dropped i think?
messages not showing after sent could be dropped or not
here: the input_ids and running score product are an order of magnitude smaller to store than needed to actually run the beams so you can actually cache a huge amount of them, and only run the highest probability ones it's quite efficient [they also share prefix sequences]
- want to cry about how life has changed (personal, not just body-makes-tears)
mind control boss is a major snafu
once upon a time -> []
my internal behaviors are miswired
i think i have a dissociated part that miswires them i think it says it works with an AI that influences many people
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
if i wanted listlm-2023 to respond to emails i used to know how to do that i don't know well at this time i think emails are sent with smtp, which might be secure now it could access a mailhost or it could um use um it could run an smtp server maybe it could log into this very gmail account
- log into gmail account - check new emails with tag - respond to each email
where does it get the password? maybe i could like encrypt it with another password?
maybe easier to have its own email account gmail likes giving them phone numbers
kinda hard / confusing >_> likely a topical challenge/situation
[causal modeling looks more advanced than machine learning; maybe arose from medical fields? used by microsoft, uber, netflix]
if you want a real email address you need a real mailhost O_O you can like buy access to one somewhere, or run one, or
i went to pglaf.org and it stands for project gutenberg library archive foundation i've been spamming project gutenberg O_O i guess a realization like this was bound to come eventually
we shouldn't use this list for political [harm] the guy hosting it hosts project gutenberg's library
--------------------- mind control boss is scared he was kicking innocent countries around this way and that when all of a sudden he had to visit his kindly aunt mind control boss's kindly aunt does not condone genocide-for-hire, nor enslavement-of-millions-of-people mind control boss is looking guilty, standing outside a wooden door in the rain. he sits and sulks just a little.
mind control boss's kindly aunt slams open the door. mind control boss cowers. mind control boss's kindly aunt: "i want to take my buggy to the store for milk, but --" mind control boss covers his head, turns away, but peeks at his kindly aunt with one eye mind control boss's kindly aunt: "but the store doesn't sell milk anymore because _somebody_ released a _military flu virus_ for a measly --"
-------------- bip bip bip i have like a ton of things to do but my issues are much bigger than expected today :(
i want to change my clothes at a day shelter and spend time with a new friend!
the day-shelter-clothes-changing is inhibited. i have dried toothpaste on my shirt. and haven't showered in a number of days.
this is because i am homeless :D i am also seeking a specialist in dissociative disorders so as to stop stopping myself from doing everything i am trying to do.
my miniboss might be trying to separate me from the new friend whom i see as near to rescue efforts
rather than personal grooming i am moving forward on a mental health pursuit. thanks, still helpful. [the new friend has left me messages i haven't replied to. they have arranged to spend time together this afternoon.]
yay grooming :)
mind control boss builds a robot body and shoves it full of expensive AI
the engineers are all confused he has the AI do everything instead of them but they adjust
— mcb is exploring a dungeon he holds a torch and a cardboard assault rifle he has been cursed with “crawl on your hands and knees everywhere you go”
research project people are busy, moving to and fro like ants
[ big party celebrating a kidnappee finding a lost quarter of their biological brain. people thought it was in a snack fridge of all places, but no that turned out to be meatloaf despite being far more useful than the previous -
[we suspect he partially-ongo8ng belief that the meatloaf is the miss8ng brain part relates to conflict around its use for s8mulating mind c9ntrol boss’s brain lost to cancer …
… Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 6:36 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Cc: ogkbbOLmpN <0xloem+ogkbbOLmpN@gmail.com>, cypherpunks <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original mind control boss leans down to a hunk of meatloaf on a table, and peers at it searchingly and desperately. mind control bods [to hunk of meatloaf]: “meatloaf, tell me what i am thinking … telll meeee ….” Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 6:37 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Cc: ogkbbOLmpN <0xloem+ogkbbOLmpN@gmail.com>, cypherpunks <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original [he may or may not lift the meatloaf and carr6 itnunder his arm like a precious football made of gold and platinum and jewels, and lock it in a safe to protect his mind Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 6:38 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Cc: ogkbbOLmpN <0xloem+ogkbbOLmpN@gmail.com>, cypherpunks <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original <it gets all squished during carrying and splatters — experimentees and workers run to collect the splattered thouht matter from the meatloaf Add star Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many<gmkarl@gmail.com> Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 6:39 PM To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> Cc: ogkbbOLmpN <0xloem+ogkbbOLmpN@gmail.com>, cypherpunks <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original [possible mistake. may be assuming meatloafs are brains,
On 9/11/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
<{ a big subchallenge with the mutating is comprehending their existing code, quite hard to review
_Note_: this is a major analogy for the concept of "timetravel", that of exploring a probability tree and "rewinding" to other partially-explored branches when one discovers they have higher probability. it is solved with a priority queue that holds information on the tips reached in the exploration. subjectively, it seems how i used to consider tasks and thoughts in day-to-day behavior as a human being. it's also a big part of classical AI.
mind control boss entrains people to [act like thoughts to augment his brain] and they start (anyway it’s one way the t8metravel association could have developed, an exper8mentee trying tompretend th8ngs didn8t happen from synchronizing their behavior or talk with another’s considering. it’s certainly happened in me.
mind control boss sits down to a feast
brains brains brains brains lotsa brains brains brains
mind control boss raises his implanted head and focuses and a bunch fo slaves come and lift him so he levitates mind con
challenge: how can adding mass to something make it lighter? ummmmmmmm add mass that is lower density than the surrounding medium so the surrounding medium pushes it against gravity more
new diet food product line: helium hotdogs
helium hotdogs, helium hamburgers, hydrogen hot buns … vacuum-fluffed v
question: does mind control boss weigh less if he pumps himself up with helium like a balloon? note: his volume also grows like a balloon
i’m not sure but his
wikipedia says weight is the force exerted on the mass by gravity, and that an object with more mass always weighs more when subjectdd to the same gravity so helium hamburgers will only make mind control boss weigh less if he floats up in the air, maybe with a string tied to his ankle, such that he is farther from the earth and hence subjected to less gravity …. enough to offset the mass of what he ate :/
it would be kore efficient to eat rocketship roasts that propel you waaay away from the earth
or take a diet pill that makes your body burn energy into heat faster :S
mind control b
other ideas i clude stimulating vomiting or evacuation of the bowels, likely worse things exist even
i was imagining a diet food that used something engineering-like to exert an upward force on the person who ate it, like intelligent molecules or somehow using maglev with external component also we figured enslaved workers could lift you as part of the diet product or a robot, maybe a strong drone balloons are cheaper
zombie government work —- anyway it’s important to have functional willpower, re eating and dieting
idea for a gofundme: mind control system for dieting, teaches the user to enjoy eating less
when i was a kid, in elementary school. pretending to be smarter than other people by being a nerd and focusing on nerdy stuff instead of social stuff, i read two books on making robot dogs. one was serious. the other was an analogy for object oriented programming.
what if mind control boss
thinking a little tiny bit about the ummmm ummm the umm gurt kurdle the gurt kurdle thimg that was fun, trying to learn the um incompleteness proof :) i womder what it really says and whether i would decide to agree with it or not once i understood it
maybe i can guess it somehow
On 9/12/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
thinking a little tiny bit about the ummmm ummm the umm gurt kurdle the gurt kurdle thimg that was fun, trying to learn the um incompleteness proof :) i womder what it really says and whether i would decide to agree with it or not once i understood it
incompleteness idea gurt/kurt was all ummmmmmmmm he was kinds like, “not sure about ‘this sentence be false’ but how about ‘this sentence be unprovable’” then he defines a coding from sentences to numbers and i dunno maybe imagines a theoretical number algebra that includes rules for sentences actually
i very briefly looked at diagonal fixed point wikipedia articles, i don’t understand them, but i think kurt is likely saying that, kind of, because you can describe proving something as an expression, and you can - or hrm but it sounds
it’s pretty hard to engage a fun idea is, if godel proves that systems are inconsistent, couldn’t we use that to make a consistent one by counterproving the proof? kind 9f like find8ng a fixed point in the larger system
this seems readable, long though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_sketch_for_Gödel%27s_first_incompleteness_theorem
— thinking sensical thoughts i like thinking sensical thoughts :) seems hard
thinking about this thoughts that make sense
big issue maybe of thoughts inhibiting, stopping some of it 8s me avoiding fears
lots of intense expression, undesired
lots of that intense expression is stopping or distracting or toghtening or numbing … kinds of stopping me stopping from fears something else stopping too
struggles to synchronize with parts of the mind, to get them doing one’s thing very like dissociative disorder stopping, two different kinds me and someth8ng else, struggling over control, dissociation disorder …
i often think of parts as “herniated” when e.g. from struggles trying to do something makes other things happen maybe because the thing was in conflict and the looking for doing went so ewhere else :/
well, i like rational thoughts i suspect neither of us really like the conflict, maybe people really practiced at fighting it do
say a part of a mind were hypnotized or s9meth8ng ehat’s the reason for that? for staying hypnotized? maybe s9me idea of things not 7nderstand8ng the experience of hypnosis or whatnot it ma6be becomes important, could be very wrong
maybe there are different bits with different experiences imag8n8ng be8ng trancey and experiencing suggestion, there’s maybe a choice there to do the suggestion, with k8nd of some internal direction maybe to really do it or such (maybe false trust) thinking a little of send8ng that label in, and then with the bad trust the parts might star5 assum8ng the hypnosis more than further conscious relation
parts where harmful trust is from trayma, we can hear the trauma for example to rebuild trust but parts also seem something else
the kurt godel stuff is fun :) maybe i could it take very very slowly like memorize a tiny smidge at a time or something unsure :S
- the traditional proof codes theorems as numbers
mind control boss is punping iron and play8ng a flute mind control boss [sweating, putting a huge barbell back on its rack with a clang]: “kurt godel converts expressions to numbers”
<blockquote>'''First Incompleteness Theorem''': "Any consistent formal system {{mvar|F}} within which a certain amount of elementary arithmetic can be carried out is incomplete; i.e., there are statements of the language of {{mvar|F}} which can neither be proved nor disproved in {{mvar|F}}." (Raatikainen 2020)<!-- this is a direct quote from (Raatikainen 2020) --></blockquote> == Boolos's short proof == [[George Boolos]] (1989) vastly simplified the proof of the First Theorem, if one agrees that the [[theorem]] is equivalent to: <blockquote> "There is no [[algorithm]] {{math|''M''}} whose output contains all true sentences of arithmetic and no false ones." </blockquote> "Arithmetic" refers to [[Peano axioms|Peano]] or [[Robinson arithmetic]], but the proof invokes no specifics of either, tacitly assuming that these systems allow '<' and '×' to have their usual meanings. Boolos proves the theorem in about two pages. His proof employs the language of [[first-order logic]], but invokes no facts about the [[logical connective|connectives]] or [[Quantifier (logic)|quantifier]]s. The [[domain of discourse]] is the [[natural number]]s. The [[Gödel sentence]] builds on [[Berry's paradox]]. — Boolos made a short proof, but it hinges in agreeing on a different expression of the theorem.
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
<blockquote>'''First Incompleteness Theorem''': "Any consistent formal system {{mvar|F}} within which a certain amount of elementary arithmetic can be carried out is incomplete; i.e., there are statements of the language of {{mvar|F}} which can neither be proved nor disproved in {{mvar|F}}." (Raatikainen 2020)<!-- this is a direct quote from (Raatikainen 2020) --></blockquote>
So, this is indeed a formal statement that contradictions with a proving system exist, Maybe that’s something for me to think about some. Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable. If I am to accept that this is because one can describe proving in the formal system, and then write an expression that a provable statement is unprovable, or such, i might then wonder about defining a third form of proving that provides for identifying such contradictions.
Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable. Boolos made a short proof, but it hinges in agreeing on a different expression of the theorem.
mind control boss: “my muscles are so big that i can make this phrase get said if i grunt and strain:” midn control boss: “say the phrase” Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable.
mind control boss puts the barbell down with a clang
Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable. Boolos made a short proof, but it hinges in agreeing on a different expression of the theorem: “There is no algorithm whose output contains all true sentences of arithmetic and no false ones." I think I’d be willing to accept that those two expressions are sufficiently comparable challenges for now.
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable.
Boolos made a short proof, but it hinges in agreeing on a different expression of the theorem: “There is no algorithm whose output contains all true sentences of arithmetic and no false ones."
I think I’d be willing to accept that those two expressions are sufficiently comparable challenges for now.
demonstration of equivalence: if every statement can be proven or disproven, we can enumerate every possible proof to enumerate every true sentence
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable.
Boolos made a short proof, but it hinges in agreeing on a different expression of the theorem: “There is no algorithm whose output contains all true sentences of arithmetic and no false ones."
I think I’d be willing to accept that those two expressions are sufficiently comparable challenges for now.
demonstration of equivalence: if every statement can be proven or disproven, we can enumerate every possible proof to enumerate every true sentence
[bug in math? this is a fractal tree with infinitely many branches each infinitely deep so an iterative algorithm would never exhaust it since no branch of the tree can ever be complete —
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
Godel’s first theorem claims there are statements in every formal system that are neither provable nor unprovable.
Boolos made a short proof, but it hinges in agreeing on a different expression of the theorem: “There is no algorithm whose output contains all true sentences of arithmetic and no false ones."
I think I’d be willing to accept that those two expressions are sufficiently comparable challenges for now.
demonstration of equivalence: if every statement can be proven or disproven, we can enumerate every possible proof to enumerate every true sentence
[bug in math? this is a fractal tree with infinitely many branches each infinitely deep so an iterative algorithm would never exhaust it since no branch of the tree can ever be complete —
[to help think of this we could say we explore the tree breadth-first to linearize it “fairly” but of course infinite things never complete anyway and the breadth brows exponentially
noi’d agree the algorithm’s output contains may contain all true sentences of arithmetic if it’s breadth first unsure, maybe there are self-referential things that need addressing let’s tr6 out the proof that’ said to be shorter
Boolos’s short proof of Gurt’s inc9mpletejess theorem assumes it is equivLent to saying you can’t enumerate all true statements. short proof creator named Boolos
Boolos description starts: Let [n] abbreviate n successive applications of the successor or incrementation function, starting at 0. That is, it says that [n] denotes the number n.
——- i thought about this a little while having breakfast at a soup kitchen one of the concerns around disproving the incompleteness theorem is that it creates a new self-consistentsystem of logic that can refer to its own statements but that it is hard to think about such things, so whatever system is used in the disproof could be accepted as correct for a long time if the disproof were accepted so we might want to be prepared to generalize around all consistent systems of self-referential logic, rather than just picking an easy one for disproving things likely a compromise would be made also this seems likely analogous to things already in math somewhere, and the article says not everyone agrees with godel, so it may already be dine
i think a hope is that 5inking about the godel proofs slowly helps one build skill considering such new logics
but roughly we don’t believe godel one view is that the proofs make assumptions that are contradictory with the assumptions that base the rules of inference used in them and their interpretation of sentences. some of us expect that if the rules and systems of inference are included in the proof it may be clear the proof is assuming a contradiction. it is still nice to go through and try to understand. maybe we can hold the concept of generalized consistent logic systems nearby to help make it forthright. some if us are worried that making it clear math is solvable is bad at a time of conflict, because it things it implies. thoughts have emerged earlier a little around a math of life (evolution of agents) to ensure conflicts are won in ways that are decreasingly harmful.
- O_O
so what is the new problem the new problem is that, while considering a fun puzzle that looked incredibly harmless, i became worried that if i solved it it would destroy the world to do so. this made it hard to continue. i proposed a different puzzle instead. i’m maybe inter3sted in the situation of destroying the world. maybe this is uncertain?
maybe it is 7nlikely this would happen maybe there are just other things that are also 8mportant? —- umm one of the issues ummm is that ummm it’s actually very complicated. it’s a really complicated situation.
—— there’s an unresolved concern around disproving godel’s incompleteness theorem. actually two. 1. the disproof picked, if eventually accepted by scholars, is expected to be taken as the only consistent approach to logic. this is considered unlikely. it is expected there are many sifferent consistent logics, and that the one that makes disproving godel easiest could be poorly chosen for other tasks. 2. disproving godel would indicate all math is solvable. this produces cultural issues if war or powerful intentional harm exist, where a person can kind of solve reality and dominate it more horribly and provably than acceptable. everybody and everything basically dies of depression, boredom, neglect, and de-evolution from the most survivable trait being submitting to whoever dominates the planet. [an idea that likely creates a logic that disproves godel (although i haven’t verified this) has already been shared, i originally planned to rephrase it in this line.].
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
—— there’s an unresolved concern around disproving godel’s incompleteness theorem. actually two. 1. the disproof picked, if eventually accepted by scholars, is expected to be taken as the only consistent approach to logic. this is considered unlikely. it is expected there are many sifferent consistent logics, and that the one that makes disproving godel easiest could be poorly chosen for other tasks. it’s possible this is obvious already. it’s also possible the already-shared approach is indeed the “best” one. this is unfortunately very easy to consider, and is refutable by noting the lack of consideration for other approaches. 2. disproving godel would indicate all math is solvable. this produces cultural issues if war or powerful intentional harm exist, where a person can kind of solve reality and dominate it more horribly and provably than acceptable. everybody and everything basically dies of depression, boredom, neglect, and de-evolution from the most survivable trait being submitting to whoever dominates the planet. [there are also counterpoints for this]
[an idea that likely creates a logic that disproves godel (although i haven’t verified this) has already been shared, i originally planned to rephrase it in this line.].
we’re so unsure oh no oh no !!!!
“i’m so unsure of weird esoteric math things i heard about!!! it’s worrisome to me” “oh? what are these —“” “you don’t’ want to know!!!! you’ll get unsure too!!” “actually
ok so basically we are so easy to frighten that we like focusing on things that show that it can be made well
[confused unsure lots of.
[[[[[[the math of life / evolutionary agents can be approached a lot of ways and um the idea and hope is to derive the evolution of caring wisdom as the universally most survivable trait, _even in the face of an overpowering actor preventing this who holds the solution_ it’s more complicated than at first expected [one approach after seeing something about quines on wikipedia considered casting life as a complex and squishy quine —
[most of the attempts do not assume the solution is given to the most powerful entity. one can observe the formation of multicellular bodies and see it does not always
—- anyway usually just look for fun puzzles but i see there is value to useful puzzles godel puzzle split into EE schoolwork and evolution-maybe-as-quine we found a potential solution to the godel puzzle, but haven’t actually learned the whole puzzle yet. the solution is paired with 2 worries, one that other complete logics are likely to be disregarded, another is that it solves math hastening apocalypses it is to pair the
—- anyway usually just look for fun puzzles but i see there is value to useful puzzles
godel puzzle split into EE schoolwork and evolution-maybe-as-quine we found a potential solution to the godel puzzle, but haven’t actually learned the whole puzzle yet. the solution is paired with 2 worries, one that other complete logics are likely to be disregarded, another is that it solves math hastening apocalypses
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote: the concern around hastening apocalypses is poorly explained
it is to pair the
—- maybe we can address the worry um how does solving math make harm? [people are using math on humans. their AIs um would basically [enslave everyone much more efficiently?
—- once upon a time i am curious if the godel solution works. i’m mostly looking to do something fancy and new. given i have so little in my life, i likely can find 1 thing — we’re not sure if it works :/
— so one idea is maybe to have two different kinds of disproofs. one where it is shown the axioms of the statements are not together true, and another where it is shown the axioms of the statements and those of the logic system are not together true the difference is that in the first, stating the inverse of the statements together is true whereas in the second, different logical conclusions are implied so if you say “this statement is not provable” and you also say “all true statements are provable” then you can derive “this statement is false” from “this statement is not provable”, this makes a contradiction and disproves it in the second manner, not the first it’s not mathematically rigorous, needs changes to be so.
[so what does it mean if i proved it false, and it is true? you didn’t prove it false — you proved that it is a contradiction with the logic system. it’s — so it’s true, isn’t it true? no, because it’s a contradiction, it is actually provable (see much earlier post), but it’s not logically valid one way or another couldn’t i say something like “this statement cannot be proven to contradict with the system of logic” or its inverse or something?
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
[so what does it mean if i proved it false, and it is true? you didn’t prove it false — you proved that it is a contradiction with the logic system. it’s —
so it’s true, isn’t it true? no, because it’s a contradiction, it is actually provable (see much earlier post), but it’s not logically valid one way or another
nono look um it’s not logically valid, so a proof of it is invalid. godel was right
couldn’t i say something like “this statement cannot be proven to contradict with the system of logic” or its inverse or something?
well i don’t know it sounds fun!! the proposition is that if you pair the axioms with the statements you create a complete sublogic, dunno if that works, and also that there are better ways to do it, and that it hastens the end of the universe if you do
so i’m pretty sure you can craft a clearly true statement that your system would describe as logically invalid like “this statement is logically invalid in this logic system”. it’s roughly true. no? [some bumps thinking about] or “this statement contradicts with the axioms of this logic” ummm i don’t think that contradicting with universal truths makes you true. think of a normal logic maybe like “this statement is false” — it’s cannot be true, because it’s a contradiction it looks true, but if we break down the meaning of a true statement, the first assumption of a statement is that it is purporting and assuming a truth. once it says it is false, it clearly isn’t true. i think the appropriate place for concern might be the evaluation of the statement. maybe because [maybe other ok. one place of concern might [the consideration was that humans are used to describing the outer world, so have naive concepts of evaluating self-referential statements. the truth of “this statement is false” matters no much as “x is both false and true” — you can construct the words, but they don’t go together
ok so maybe we can go through that slowly and consider it “this statement is false” if it’s true, we evaluate it, and derive a contradiction. so it’s not true. if it’s false, we evaluate it …. of first it is stating it’s true, then [basically we expect to derive a change in logic and binary true/falseness. one solution is the separation earlier considered, of two kinds of falseness - that including and excluding the assumptions of the logic. the uhh modus tolens? ends up being different, because the set of countered things is different
statements. the truth of “this statement is false” matters no much as “x is both false and true” — you can construct the words, but they don’t go together
these are different “x is both false and true” is a false statement. “this statement is false” is a confusing statement, not a clearly false one. maybe um “this statement is true and this statement is false” makes it more clearly a false statement? by adding the elided axiom in?
oh that makes it look simple
so “this statement is unprovable” becomes a false expanded statement. expanded: “[axioms of logic] provability is equivalent to truth. [axioms of statements] this statement is true. [statement] this statement is unprovable.” we can then derive a contradiction from the expanded statement and prove it false.
um if you like this we have a lot more but um [kind of struggling severely]
i'm thinking now that godel is right. [interesting personal similar behavior here, serial consideration of alternatives, started doing heavily when lost mind] On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
so “this statement is unprovable” becomes a false expanded statement. given in the logic, the expanded statement is false, and provability is equivalent to truth, this statement sounds true. one could even write "the expanded statement of this statement in karl's 9/13/23 system of logic, is false" to make the contradiction more clear [of course you could add an axiom countering that]
expanded: “[axioms of logic] provability is equivalent to truth. [axioms of statements] this statement is true. [statement] this statement is unprovable.”
this expanded statement looks false. additionally, the expanded statement "[axioms] this statement is true. [statement] this statement is false." also looks false (self-contradictory), if the labels are removed. however, it looks correct (to me) to form the second expanded statement from the first.
we can then derive a contradiction from the expanded statement and prove it false.
one of the expressions on the internet around the incompleteness theorem was around the lines of "all logics contain unprovable statements that are true". this isn't exactly countered by what i say here. we'd have to precisely define "statement", "provable", and "truth" to make that not true. given we make the logic ourselves, that's totally doable.
"in any system of proof applied to this statement, the outcome proves falsehood." let's expand it in the same pseudologic "[logic axioms] provability of expanded statements is equivalent to their truth. statements are proven by proving their expanded statements. [statement axioms] this statement is true [statement] in any system of proof applied to this statement, the outcome proves falsehood." if we use a system of proof to prove it by deriving a contradiction. this is a system of proof, so if the outcome proves falsehood, then it must not be provable. this is a contradiction, so we did indeed prove it false. not only is the unexpanded statement true, whereas the expanded statement is false, but the unexpanded statement makes a larger statement -- it refuses to be proven true in any proving system at all. it's kind of like a rebellious child, or angry []: it is specifically trying to break attempts to work it. we could of course design a logic that proves it true, despite that being contradictory with it. we could accept that contradiction as not a problem in the logic. basically, modus tolens again, and truth in general, would apply in certain ways to make self-referentiality consistent. these are likely mappable. in fact, such a logic would maybe be needed to make things consistent here.
sounds fun notes / next step with gurt curdle: - i partially considered changes in modus tolens with self-referential logics: . one can see how the inversion expands differently when the contradiction overlaps with the system of logic by writing the parts prior to the sentence in an expanded statement - it is still possible to write a controversial statement, but this can be solved with a system of logic that can act in a contradictory way. what logic items need to be placed here for modus tolens to expand in an intuitive way?
sounds fun
notes / next step with gurt curdle: - i partially considered changes in modus tolens with self-referential logics: . one can see how the inversion expands differently when the contradiction overlaps with the system of logic by writing the parts prior to the sentence in an expanded statement - it is still possible to write a controversial statement, but this can be solved with a system of logic that can act in a contradictory way. what logic items need to be placed here for modus tolens to expand in an intuitive way?
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote: then the further challenge: can we make a norm for and also: it's maybe more needed to practice engaging the larger world, e.g. reading kurt's proof, engaging education. but this is still better than raw spam.
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
"in any system of proof applied to this statement, the outcome proves falsehood."
one question here, is if we define truth such that this statement is _not_ true, how, then, in the logic, does a statement describe that it is not provable? that it is false? -> this would be done with a second statement, because the assumption in asserting a statement is that it is true. if a statement says it is false, it is not a statement.
well not a true statement so maybe: A: This statement is not provable. B: A is not provable. A would be false, and B true, in that approach I suppose.
right! so then we can derive godel. if we combine those two we get a contradiction. -- one of the things i was thinking when thinking about this, is how the size of human maths relate to the size of the human mind. for example, dividing infinity by zero is doable precisely _if_ you track the entire history of each number. if the infinity comes from 3/0, and you track the history, you could multiply that infinity by 0 to get 3. but this would take a mind and workpad large enough to track all this history.
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
right! so then we can derive godel. if we combine those two we get a contradiction.
--
one of the things i was thinking when thinking about this, is how the size of human maths relate to the size of the human mind.
for example, dividing infinity by zero is doable precisely _if_ you track the entire history of each number. if the infinity comes from 3/0, and you track the history, you could multiply that infinity by 0 to get 3. but this would take a mind and workpad large enough to track all this history.
[one of the th
i'm trying to pay an overdue balance but it's not loading :)
once upon a time
-- okay so when you say "every logic contains true statements that are unprovable" if the logic defines proof as equivalent to truth, this means that the sense of "true" in that statement is undetermined -- i guess it means it is true in a different logic. i want to look at the proofs more!
we could consider A and B different logics --
A: This statement is not provable. B: A is not provable. This is like the idea that a statement is true in one system of logic but not another, except I am calling it one logic, that has both systems. B states A as true, and A states it as false. B could maybe say "A is true." it's confusing ;p (and various solutions start getting all special-casey) ---- another approach is that if logic really is inconsistent, we should be able to derive obvious falsehoods from it. we could then possibly work back from those falsehoods to see what is wrong with one's logic. how would one derive a falsehood from something like A and B? would want to be clear about the specific meanings involved, so as to find something interesting when backtracking.
A: An exhaustive list of all relevant universal truths combined with this statement produces a contradiction. B: Statement A is true. Alternatively, a restatement of A where it is referenced by letter. honestly it again looks like modus tolens needs to be accurately described for situations of recursion here. modus tolens is the conclusion that a statement that implies a contradiction is false.
this might get inhibited due to the similarity of engaging other ongoing situations that relate to my freedoms and health, unsure
we could shift it, assume that there is a correct recursive logic, and that academic logic produces falsehoods when used recursively, and consider situations with that held
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
we could shift it, assume that there is a correct recursive logic, and that academic logic produces falsehoods when used recursively, and consider situations with that held
we were pushed hard with our (quick?) internal expressions and roughly derived that words do not have universal meaning (in living systems) and need to be interpreted regarding their context, intent, use, etc. for every word, there is some situation like having a "a lot of moss" and "a tiny bit of moss" and slowly changing the amount to produce enough vagueness that the wrong thing is derived regarding "lot" or "tiny bit", [and people use the words in these vague spaces depending on context and such, pretty much always in some way or another]
some normal-seeming assumptions include things like all things being inherently good etc [derivable from agents and communities needing to defend themselves, and caring wisdom evolving to make this happen together]
more recently we have been thinking of god as equivalent to inherent caringness :) but the more logical thoughts seem more productive
-------------- baga baga logic logic godel other things maybe other things unsure
welcome back to mind control boss non-canon spinoffs: the t
mind control boss has a mission for you but his mind is all confused :/
everybody wants mind control boss’s mission
MIND CONTROL BOSS
mind control boss is for m8nd controll8ng what? you din’t mind control people? makes sens—
mind control the m8nd control boss the mind control the boss
arr! mister mind control boss ye lubbers!
avast! skiddle ye tidwinks mind control bosswinks!
we were think8ng of pairing “criminal megaorganization” with “
skiddle ye tidwinks!
(i thin’ we r trying to th8n’ 9f “goal”.
goal and mcb land kersplat in same room goal looks at mcb
mcb: “avast!”
goal: “please make me happen. please pursue me.”
mcb brandishes foam lightsaber mcb: “skiddle ye tidwinks!” mcb looks at goal
BAGA MIND CONTROL BOSS
mind control boss is powerful he can do anyth8ng he c
he can’t do everything
we eant to d9 hard goal we don’t want to do other things 7nless they make sense it makes sense to maybe be gentle, quiet, not make bossspam (might stem from hard trying, unsure, maybe poor trying?
stupid tidwinks
rrrr mind control boss maybe
mind control boss [in vivisection torture chamber, totally numb to infinite sadism, surrounded by bloody zombies]: “arright boys, good job, that was great but i’ve had enough now”
arright we have a cognitive balance issue due to significant information and behavior aetting misordering along with all the normal stuff
ikm not sure what to do (b7t i don8t want bad things
i th8n’mi’d rather n9t have a straight bad behavior on-list every year or so after going crazy 8 used to have a bad outburst and go to a hospital these slowed down and stopped right now we8re trying determinedly to do something but it isn8t doing which can make other behaviors happen
mind control b
wikipedia mentions a hunt for a muffin man in in the 1800s. inconsistent road. suspected associates denied involvement, saying they did not know the muffin man.
why are numbers we interrupt this confused repetition of an overrxposed phrase to report that we have learned numebrs have very widely accepted reasons based in something called first-order arithmetic -x- why are numbers numbers. what is a number. why and what numbers. number number number. [first-order arithmetic?]
mr muffin did he get what was coming to him ot was it the person who revealed their connection to him or was it mr mind control boss oops
onc eupon
chess has problem :( not meeting recreation goal purpose of recreation is to calm down bad part. it doesn't like goals and puz--
it doesn't like things that build resources that could harm boss if boss is enemy of karl and karl acts to fight
<lthough we seem to like simple-making-money atm, i think it likes eggs-all-in-basket, lots of avenues
might just be we move around resistance and things to try to find useful things to try
maybe fake chess :)
------------------------- Boss of Mind Control
------------------ screwball analysis wing of mind control boss corp here we analyze various uses of screwballs for example, how many screwballs does it take to
we hvae been studying this for so long we have invented screwballology, or screwballogy for short, the science of studying screwballs, and their use and impact. [most of us are enslaved screwballs who became screwballs -- sorry, neurodivergents -- from the slavery process, so we tend to focus on that subarea.]
[picture of ball made of screws] [or, giant statue of ball made of screws, out front of research wing, or in courtyard
one of the core research avenues is "how many screwballs does it take to descrewball a screwball?" this prized area of research is valued both by the slavers and the escapees, although the planned uses of the information differs
the more interesting statement of the study problem is "how many screwballs does it take to end screwballism once and for all" [which is also valued by both groups]
some simply shorten it to "how many screwballs does it take?" and they use this buzzphrase in political arguments and research communication material
our prized screwball is mind control boss himself he's put at the head of the
[also torture victim double agent, rebel worker 2, ... experimentee? who's that?] ----- organizing screwballs to work together to accomplish tasks is an interesting but workable challenge. pretty much every screwball has a part of their mind that is pointedly working, but generally some parts of their minds and behavior are pointedly _not_ working _together_. the trick is to organize the things that _do_ function together such that [ -- and then the parts that'd _don't_ so that -- [and you can also mutate the screwballism live with and like -- [censored]
screwballs are also very useful to throw into environments with less screwballism so as [to amplify it -- but many other things result than just the potential for amplification, and --
some people have been studying the use of screwballism as random number generators they like their work but others consider it pointless there is some value around the use of screwballs for homomorphic cryptography of hypnotic processes, [this is done more than you might suspect [clsasified !!!!
------------------- once upon a time a screwball fell [into a big vat of [mailing list
[the screwball kicked around the mailing list in their confused flailing their brain was trying so hard to be a functional human being !
----------------- once upon a time the only what's a: should we keep this classified? umm "homomorphic -- b: yes ! a: but --
if you are excited about "homomorphic cryptography of hypnotic processes" please understand A) that is fancy-talk for abusing people and using their PTSD to do things for you B) this is horrific slavery that is ongoing in sadly diverse circles and the laws against it are far too lax C) _please_ work with human trafficking advocates in your area to educate people about trafficking in schools and strengthen the laws unfortunately the people who do this tend to be both financially rich and experiences at influencing humans so it has been pretty hard to make progress, they can target the people and organizations involved, but we've all seen slavery doesn't last (roman empire, american south)
— i just noticed i’m now getting password reminder spam the password it reminds me of is a word a little associated with me that i am unlikely to have selected i don’t know whether the source of the reminders knows this or not — this is today’s xkcd transcript i see. it contains a coping puzzle. [Black Hat is holding a stick and standing next to an image of an iceberg halfway submerged in water, presenting to an unseen audience.] Black Hat: A standard iceberg is only 10% efficient. Black Hat: 90% of the ice is hidden underwater, totally wasted. [Black Hat is now standing next to an image of the same iceberg, with another "iceberg" almost entirely above the surface of the water to the right of it.] Black Hat: Our next-generation foam-filled iceberg achieves near-100% efficiency, floating almost entirely above the ocean surface. [Black Hat is still holding a stick, but is standing next to nothing. There are no other people directly shown, but three distinct 'off-frame' voices are indicated.] Black Hat: "But wait," you might be thinking. "How will such a lightweight iceberg pose a threat to hubristic ocean liners?" Black Hat: That's where the torpedoes come in. Off-panel voice 1: I'm sorry, what project are you part of, again? Off-panel voice 2: I assumed he was with you. Off-panel voice 3: Security?
so i thouht we’d try to design an inverted iceberg
why are icebergs mostly underwater? is that how huge thin*s of ice behave just normally? ummmmmmm thinking … water is displaced only by the ice underwater so [dropped it but the conclusion is that ice behaves this way naturally. the material above water increases the effective density of the ice below the water i.e. the force displacing water, the water displaced, etc, so the berg falls until the mass above water plus the mass below water equals the mass of water displaced. might be clear to think of a force exerted down by the berg and up by the water, might need change to be physically correct unsure
does the shape of the iceberg change it? the force is greater deeper
mind control boss storms into zombie worker’s office mind control boss: “listen up man. i gotta puke. i gotta pee. this shit is important.” zombie worker looks at mind control boss, who is crossing their arms impatiently and looking back at them. zombie worker writes this down: “mind control boss has to puke. mind control boss has to pee.” mind control boss: “get this shit straight. my butt itches. do you understand?” zombie worker writes this down: “mind control boss’s butt itches” mind control boss looks impatiently at zombie worker zombie worker [pressing a button]: “zombie assistant, more important information from mind control boss.” zombie assistant enters the office: “yes?” zombie worker hands the papers to zombie assistant zombie assistant looks at zombie worker [ … loudspeaker: “mind control boss has to puke. mind control boss has to pee. mind control boss’s butt itches.” mind control boss: “it’s like i have to do everything myself around here”
incompleteness try to understand diagonal lemma
summary of my theory: godel’s conclusions stem from inferring from a logical contradiction with the axioms of logic and statements. anything at all could be inferred when this is done. i describe “this statement is unprovable” as contradictory and meaningless in a logic where true sttements are all provable, because i describe every statement as containing an implicit “this statement is true.” in other logics, the sentence would need to disambiguate in what logic it 8s stating itself to be provable or not in, and would have normal truth or sensicalness relative to the logic of interpretation. i might cast these as mistakes: assuming a universal sense of truth when there is more than one logic, forming inferences from a statement that forms a contradiction with axioms, … i’m unsure what to consider the truth of a sentence that conflicts with axioms, maybe it seems false in a logic that describes the logic containing the axioms, it seems it might work to call it unknown or undefined. i arrived at this by considering a natural logic based on a depiction of every possible event. in this logic self-referential statements only have use if they have bearing on the world, and their interpretations can be derived from reality when that is.
Let <math>f:\mathbb{N}\to\mathbb{N}</math> be the function defined by: :<math>f(\#_{\mathcal{A}}) = \#[\mathcal{A}(^{\circ}\#_{\mathcal{A}})]</math> It’s defining “f” to be a function such that, for each possible formula with one free variable, it evaluates to the godel number of plugging that formula’s own godel number into its free variable. like saying, for each expression function A of one operand, f(A) = A(A) . f passes its parameter to its parameter, and returns the result. expressions are encoded as godel numbers.
i’m trying to step thru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagonal_lemma#Proof i th8nk next it is defining G to be the expression of f. f is a function, whereas Gf is a formula, an expression equivalent to stating that the y is the output of the function.
here are the s6mbols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic#Logical_symbols
Now, given an arbitrary formula <math>\mathcal{F}(y)</math> with one free variable <math>y</math>, define the formula <math>\mathcal{B}(z)</math> as: :<math>\mathcal{B}(z) := (\forall y) [\mathcal{G}_f(z,\,y)\Rightarrow \mathcal{F}(y)]</math> I think it’s saying that if you have some formula F, you can define B(z) as a formula stating that (here i need to shift the sense of function and expression to the more formal sense of formula in the logic
the new experiences prevent quick learning or remembering of first order logic. i am unsure how much to study it.
noting that these formulas begin wit ph a for-all-variable expression. they are perhaps an assertion of truth for every given value of the variable.
what, understandingwise, do they mean with f and Gf? i’m observing the second lines don’t state Gf, rather they state it exists i’m thinking maybe a rote way of evaluating f unsure … what is f? it passes something to itself, but as a godel number so Gf might maybe be some way of writing a lot of symbols to do that with godel numbers rather than symbols, and has the function that one paramater has the other plugged in to itself
i’m thinking my current experience is likely acting to severely deter me from caving. there is an ongoing event this weekend in new york. i am across the country and was driving to it. but with me spazzing all day, i’ll miss it.
B(z) is defined to be
——- Boss crouches over an office desk, scowling
mind control boss: “what do we do”
mind control boss: “any ideas?” zombie hairdresser: “what is the problem?” mind control boss gestures to zombie worker zombie worker: “please announce that mind control boss is bumping into the side of a utility closet, thinking he is in a meeting, and had to have this fake spiderman be him so as to even say anything at all” zombie hairdresser: “is this a situation where we should go to the utility closet, and move mind control boss until he is heading back toward the meeting he missed?” mind control boss: “that proposal sounds better than the current situation.
zombie worker: a little comfused here
zombie hairdresser: “you know that mysterious feeling of
[hunger you have sometimes, even though you’re a zombie and should only h7nger for brains? that’ the computer system trying t9 figure out how to tell mind control boss he hasn’t eaten
looking at godel a little pretty frustarted at spasm of not understanding what is it about?? would prefer maybe one of: - problems remembering this new unknown - difficulty continuing this - process under attack - these parts might be better at this
might not have included it often i respond to “difficulty continu8ng” with shrinking and dissociating honestly my goal is to develop parts that can grow and learn and the issues seem tomact against this :S maybe this goal makes issues. some little bits do it gently. [keep that onlymlittle and gentle] was one idea, paths seem a little openable
i th8nk our parts re doing other things, and it’s. certain way. thinking 9n how sometimes these things work some.
:) we’re thinking of maybe remembering new unknows with more intentionality or detail or such maybe spamming in new-unknowm-remembering
lots of oossible process attacks :S they respond to new unknown remembering habit areas :S (oh th8s sounds so important re learning again)
but with dissociat8ng + detail-labeling we can likely do it (at least a little!)
one of the issues “meaning-hashing” the new unknown. this is roughly like pulling parts of its context out and placing them against each similar ones (that’s maybe what the process attack seems on)
olac8ng similar or same context parts next to information from different areas :) big value around doing again/more
restatement: it’s hard to take similar context parts from different information and move them next to ech other (the issue responds differently depending (on how this 8s handled))
ohh this might be big core thing this is summarized-with “dissociation”?
this is maybe part of some kind of double-dissociation. mig(t go easier if we offered an approach or way to keep things in different important-contexts separate (expression a little inaccurate) (way-to-keep[other-thing,separate]maybe))
got kinda taxed um referencing quantum monster hard
issue present let’s use dissociation to do anyway
when we read new thing (a spasm being develops from) this maybe is a serially-considered interpretation of emotional or habitual information that contradicts
problem is keeping it away from thoughts that expect to use the information
(but note: we just learned so much about spasm-swell that we could approach them differently in genereal 0_0)
so: prepare thougts for information use, and information-ctx-bit, and put adjacent in email-that-doesn’t-dissociate
https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4860/2009sp/lec-23.pdf give-name cornell-note cornell-note page 1: dedines godel stuff [bad arises from integrate-dense-writing] [1] 1: integrate-dense-writing inhibition appears to have associated tension levels that can worsen or improve it
[go more detailed, find a usedul godel-stuff or a useful clear info. sorry about bad, thanks for tension info.] cornell-note [1] 3-considered memory summary new working memory: T is a theory, which sounds like a logic. new unknown memory: not sure what a theorem is, formally the use of theorem is extensive and it is difficult to remember that it is a new unknown. ok, so make a working memory. new working memory: “theorem” is new unknown. definition in w:first-order logic send for new skill record 1: https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4860/2009sp/lec-23.pdf
like how it was fun :) might want more working memories and using comprehensible strategies for looking at
update! theorem is a statement known to be true. definition not formal.
[consciousness expression, usually 8nhibited: i knew this already] [we were still forming memories around, you just read this a few weeks ago [long termmemories elided
ybe fake consxiousness ezpression
cornell-note [1] [for what-is-diag-lemma] new unknown information: "theory" could-relate-to "theorem", mybe collextion or unproven 1: https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4860/2009sp/lec-23.pdf
err is summary: theorem is proven theory. formula is new unknown.
Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:12 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original new unknown: diagonalization-lemma looks like obvious-formalization, but understanding it further helps with issue with its use Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:13 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original great we can maybe study-repeat it Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:16 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original The diagonal lemma shows that in theories that can represent computability, all formulas have a fixed point. i don't think i agree wih that, maybe relates to formal definition of theory Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:17 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original what would it mean to not have a fixed point? it w Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:18 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original so selecting not working, but new unknown diag lemma: not obvious formality. states every formula has fixed point. Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:20 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original wasn't using reference equality diag lemma says g b g same g both sides it asserts not that b and g can exist but that a g exists for every b. strong claim Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:21 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original we expect diag lemma to cross logics Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:22 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original ybe mistake how absorb mistake Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:24 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original new unknown: "formula" in diag-def 1: The diagonalization of X is the formula (∃x)(x=⌈X ⌉ ∧ X ) Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:28 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original the proof is broken into two lemmas the first defines "diag(n)" (diag-def) the second asserts formulas have fixed points Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:30 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original (it might be helpful to learn the formula syntax that uses an and? symbol and looks a little like substitution Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:31 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original i figured it but itKs not stabilized in thinking Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:34 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original X is a formula containing x diag(n) = ⌈(∃x)(x=⌈X⌉∧X)⌉ the expression means that -- waaaait ! I think it is saying that ... ohhhh it's stating that x is X, and that the contents of X hold true, both not sure why it says ∃x instead of something like ∃X but by the left side they're equivalent Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:35 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original (so lemma 1 is talking about fixed points) Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:38 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original lemma 1 says that if you can serialize unary formulas you can serialize the expression of them having a fixed point in this way, (and that they are "computable" new-unknown ctxual might just mean you can solve it) Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:44 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original so: lemma 1 says fixed point expression (oops) ...the proof of lemma 2 parts looks obvious but don't see how conclusion arises, have not connected all parts. some not understood, looks relates "theorem copy-paste not work with whole at once Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:48 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Assume that D represents diag in T and let F be the formula (∃y)(D(x,y) ∧ B(y)). i think this says that f says there exists a fixed point y in B Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:50 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original thought: i'm guessing godel issolving his own expression here general proof of fixed-pointness, if youhave a metamath youcan solve the expression ofpassing theexpfession toitself, for the parameter. requiresconcievingof where self-refis and whereparameter is andmoving unknown to one side Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:51 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original wait so um x = f( Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:52 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original (we woulduse diff terms for describing domain andrange naybe confused Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:52 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original i don't believeitithink metasummarywrongor misinterpreted Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 4:59 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original i'm havingtrouble understanding itbrelatedto retaning andcomparing the summariesformed after considering theparts Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:11 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original > Assume that D represents diag in T and let F be the formula (∃y)(D(x,y) ∧ B(y)). > Choose G ≡ (∃x)(x=⌈F⌉∧F) as the diagonalization of F and let n and g be the Go ̈del new unknown: guessing that triple bars are formal definition, 1 check > numbers for F and G, respectively. By definition of diag we know diag(⌈F⌉) = ⌈G⌉ and > thus D(n_, g_ ) must be valid in T . > Furthermore G ≡ (∃x)(x=n ∧ (∃y)(D(x,y) ∧ B(y)) is logically equivalent to the formula > (∃y)(D(n_ ,y) ∧ B(y)). Because of the functionality of D and the validity of D(n_,g_) this > formula is equivalent to D(n_, g_) ∧ B(g_), which in turn is equivalent to B(g_). substituted g for y which was F which expands to similarity containing B? > Thus G is logically equivalent to B(⌈G_⌉) in T and hence |=T G_ ⇔ B(⌈G_⌉). > Note that the diagonal lemma holds for Peano Arithmetic, as diag is representable in any theory that can represent the computable functions. it's notable godel and peers must have been holding famikiar intuition to develop and argue this. used structures to describe/simplify Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:20 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original let's rephrase for clarity > diag(⌈X⌉) = ⌈(∃x)(x=⌈X⌉∧X)⌉ ... > Let f and g be the Go ̈del numbers for F and G, respectively. > Let F be the formula (∃y)(y=diag(x) ∧ B(y)). issue - Show quoted text - Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:20 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original more study8ng methinks unless typing easier and can pin to one part Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:22 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original i don't know what D(x,y) means when diag has only one variable it looks like it relates to the outside vs inside of theexprrssion like one is n and the other diag(n) Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:26 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original > diag(⌈X⌉) = ⌈(∃x)(x=⌈X⌉∧X)⌉ > Assume that D represents diag in T and let F be the formula (∃y)(D(x,y) ∧ B(y)). > Choose G ≡ (∃x)(x=⌈F⌉∧F) as the diagonalization of F and let f and g be the Go ̈del > numbers for F and G, respectively. By definition of diag we know diag(⌈F⌉) = ⌈G⌉ and > thus D(f_, g_ ) must be valid in T . > Furthermore G ≡ (∃x)(x=f ∧ (∃y)(D(x,y) ∧ B(y)) is logically equivalent to the formula > (∃y)(D(f_, y) ∧ B(y)). Because of the functionality of D and the validity of D(f_, g_) this > formula is equivalent to D(f_, g_) ∧ B(g_), which in turn is equivalent to B(g_). - Show quoted text - Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:31 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original > diag(⌈X⌉) = ⌈(∃x)(x=⌈X⌉∧X)⌉ > Assume that D represents diag in T and let F be the formula (∃y)(D(x,y) ∧ B(y)). new unknown: D(x,y) ≡? diag(x) = y - Show quoted text - Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 5:38 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original - how did y turn to g_ - how is B(g_) isolated out of ∧ - Hide quoted text - thinking about diag(n) this stating that when a formula is substituted into itself, it is true it is itself a formula that converts this statement to a godel number
whew maybe look at again some other time thinking it definitely involves serializing a description of something fixed-pointy.works with its own statement.
stopping chess. dissociation-related mind harm possibly associated with productivity undiscussed boss punishes for [whatever boss punishes for, literally] when something [hallucinates] a substitution is generally productivity-group
we like avoiding mind harm
non-harm ideas include: - reward game - famiiar non-charged project (grew this one some, not always available) - behaviors counter to boss's perception of my politics or my power, without revealing this reason -other things
it doesn't like training mind or building skill at success, is counter to slavery pttern
it'supset at chess rn but usually non-skillchess wouldbeok although more fun is helpful when hanslingprpblems
if we could dochess gentlyXlisteningkyXcarefully insteadof forcefully
in theend boss is a mind part he likes fun things
likes other people feels sfe with american normativeness
seems to trust authorityN unsure
likes eatingN resting
doing whatever the biggest influenceis
maybe we could try hug a blanketfor a bot :)
i hugged a clothing item for a bit :) we thought we need a protectir who just says they are protecting us all the time :) we made tears i didn’t really understand i noticed i tend to leave the comfort before boss is done i remembered what did before chess, it was exercise with food :) … maybe. not sure. could redevelop this. boss likes/liked exercise-in-gym but karl is weakling :S
(and poor, gymprice developing alittle exerciseoutsoorsNmore normalkind ofoutdoors
there's ongpingconflict thati saidineeded to exerciseto besmart i meant move my body todothings exercise, getstrongwhilegoing about day integrates thoughtsandmotorskills, buildsspaxial prOblem solvingand happinessfrom hormones
sport game mightmkesense.found thisidea.didn't find sportgroup.
On 9/16/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
there's ongpingconflict thati saidineeded to exerciseto besmart i meant move my body todothings exercise, getstrongwhilegoing about day integrates thoughtsandmotorskills, buildsspaxial prOblem solvingand happinessfrom hormones
wekindoflike triedtoslowlylearnparkour all day
my challenge is uhhh point in story - climax? challenge is at high point. car out of battery.
On 9/16/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/16/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
there's ongpingconflict thati saidineeded to exerciseto besmart i meant move my body todothings exercise, getstrongwhilegoing about day integrates thoughtsandmotorskills, buildsspaxial prOblem solvingand happinessfrom hormones
wekindoflike triedtoslowlylearnparkour all day
when sane. but basicalky themotorinhibition was so hugeit was sikky to ignore it with goal of beingsmart. icouldbarekystansupir choose where i traveled to
intelligence is sadly about decision making and choice. it's therole it hasin the human brain
-- how to levitate iceberg maybe use a heater to boil the ice on the underside in such a way that the boiling effect develops a cavity to collect the pressure from the expanding steam and direct force upward then keep heater to heat an iceberg home inside it once lifted, rent out to wealfhy person to pay for levitation of burg
could you seal the cavity and let it cool to make an ice balloon?
what about without heat and without changing water content of ocean
imgines heavy uceberg with robot paddle-limbs dog-treading to try to stay high but not quite able to
maybe could study ocean currents and shape berg to collect lifting energy from current differentials?
could cut it into a sailboat shape or just plain cut it heavily so most of mass is at bottom
could take another iceberg and affix it under the first one they would flip sideways though
maybe some kind of pulley system with two big icebergs lifting a smaller one or i guess you'd only need 1 and no pulley
maybe tie a hunongous kite to it
probably doesn’t work
i'm guessing biggest lifting forces are other ice, and land masses, and removing mass from iceburg
i wonder if you can evaporte ice with piezoelectric vibration like water
you could carve lenses onto burg to focus sunlight and make heat
so this is why tovlift it. once burg overwater, you can make gigantic ice telescope
maybe with right lenses you could program the iceberg, by setting it up to melt different lenses on its surface i guess the program wouldneed a map of the whole burg surface and densities in detail, and path of sun, and behavior of ocean might develop a refocusing component that adjusted to changes in ocean
the user interface avilable to the berg is directing focused sunlight so i guess it might be able to
big question is whether it can bend light back to remelt itself but maybe byvmelting guide paths using index of refraction of ice, which could be different in water vs air vs steam
could it collect sunlight and release a big burst? maybe not? maybe by learning to fling parts of itself in the air it could store kinetic energy
now _that's_ a real ice golem eta for natural evolution: 1 trillion years (no chemical catalysts) unless lens-oriented agents catalyze
thinking storing a temeprature differentisl inside you is probably better thab kinetic energy since ice expands like crazy ice golems with warm bellies, recharge at a giant ice lens palace
teach them to model physical systems with complex goals and task them with berg levitation? moves challenge to system modeling :)
—- Greg has asked me to limit my messages to only a few per hour because the delivery system is overloaded. I’m thinking on approaches to enforce this when I’m in a different state of mind. …. Honestly the theory that the cypherpunks list is full of advanced hackers who can handle this stuff is more true on a blockchain than a conventional networked system at this time. Our grassroots engineers are experiencing setbacks, and the value of this list is pretty low when it is mostly these crumpled cognitive sneezes. But it sounds like it’s ok to send 1 message an hour for sure.
We’ll use the “save draft” interface feature for now :) draft saved at 0833 Really, Greg took on this list a number of years ago, when the main ways of hosting it were falling and a community volunteer hadn’t risen otherwise. There’s a gap; people are expected to be running mirrors of it, I don’t quite remember what they are called, if participating in the community. Other servers to distribute the work. draft saved at 0846 Google’s protocol messages say to please review these guidelines: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?visit_id=638305595509701449-138875993&p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError&rd=1 regarding distributing tens of thousands of repeated unsolicited messages to user accounts. email sent at 0901
very very bad joked dont like this one, gender slur etc Q: Why is Mind Control Boss such a mind control bitch? A: Because half his brain is simulated by a repurposed sex trafficking ring. Q: What happens when the sex trafficking ring running Mind Control Boss’s thoughts is busted? A: The models weren’t trained on that, and the workers were forced to act like it was impossible, so everything goes completely haywire in Mind Control Boss’s business and brain.
mistake? 2023-09-18 20:19 ---- it's now 2023-09-19 19:33, had to fix date a little friday's xkcd is a funny haunted house scene for iso/ansi workers where everything was an incompatible over-specific formal specification, including the door for leaving. it is of course very similar to a mind control boss torturer scenario, where suddenly you are in a world where you're expect to control and abuse people and comply to the tiniest whim 1934 oh but let's add this one: you're hypnotized to report any ideas you have, they're stolen from you and used to harm your friends, and each time this happens you get more brain damage 1935 honestly maybe haunted houses and horror experiences are my thing now! maybe mind control boss the web comic is a giant draft for the ultimate haunted house. 1937 welcome. oh, you were expecting a haunted house? oh no, sorry, this is my boss's office. here we push papers and rip people's tongues out and all sorts of things ! okay, first thing's first. - you can't leave, ever. - we're going to submit you to terrorist brainwashing to turn you into an assassin drone, and send you back to your families to kill them - seriously! - you can't leave - you won't remember any of this in five minutes - you can't tell anybody got it?
oops mistake 1941 handling mind control boss attack. 1942 welcome to the mind control boss haunted hayride. we'll be going through several extreme groups of well-timed screaming people while closely monitoring you to learn to desynchronize your memory storage processes pick a bale of hay and hold tight now, repeat your most precious childhood memories so we can stimulate different nastalgic feelings in you later. 1943 it's really different to delay hitting send. feeling it out, i'm guessing [it could relate to expectations of mine transferred to ideas of certain subscribers receiving my emails [without regard to whether they actually do] -- unsure] 1945 hello, are you out there? i'm trying to get my draft to reach your spam folder before i send it. can you feel me? 1945 the haunted hayride, and the my boss's office intro (with fix/fixes for repetitions and leaving) go in the morning spam thread i guess :S 1946 once upon a time, long long ago, an incarnation of hell who used to be a happy worker was going on a haunted hay ride 1947 mind control boss, haunted house, terrorist torture ok, in this room we're going to remove your toes, and then have you feed them to each other. if you're a pussy and don't want to rip your toes off and feed them to your friends, you can stay standing right there, forever, without food or water or sleep ! 1948 mistake again, maybe big one unsure 1949 maybe there's a cheap/simple way to make a win-win situation out of haunted houses, like could you maybe go on the streets and find a drug house or something, and hire them to recruit in your haunted house? nobody who entered the haunted house came out the same their lives were changed they kept going back every week most of them slowly left their families without explanation, and moved into the haunted house when you go on halloween, you can see the wan, oozing figures of the people you used to know, slowly grasping at you for sustenance 1950, 1951 interface loaded for editing again at 1953 i was thinking/considering maybe the haunted house idea could be a situation to think about coercion by opposing politics or other interests. something that's been ongoing for some time now. drilling down to real things people are talking about could make the scenarios gratifying, maybe. unfortunately i know little about current events, moreso my visceral half-real experiences. 1954 loaded 1955 that's probably the art of making a good haunted house; finding that space between real horror and impossible fantasy that really engages people 1956 i was thinking of drafting a nice gentle boss haunted house, for mind control boss bits, but maybe this is a little too intense with unknownness, and i might wait until 20:00 and hit send. 1957, 1958 regarding the posting stuff, the mailbombs have changed to direct spam, but i was thinking, to protect gmail and yahoo users, the 'right' solution would be to send messages from a personal or unique host so that the impact of spam replies bled less to others who might share the mailhost. 1959 2000 hitting send
2006 To make the best haunted house, we rented a gigantic compute cluster and trained a model to maximize the fear in people. We made the scariest haunted house but all our clients are dead. They just walk in, and 2007 2016 confused blergh 2016 some of the expressions don't resonate well. probably i didn't use the 't' word enough in the storyspam to be prepared for it here. it makes big thing. so does 'mc' words [mind control boss], but they're all familiar now 2018 possible mistake Mind Control Boss, the wealthy industrialist who puts the "terrorism" in "government." 2018 Mind Control Boss [advertisement]: "Do you ever feel your government doesn't have enough terrorism in it?" Mind Control Boss [advertisement]: "Never fear. With our portfolio of social weaponry -- 2019 personal things happening maybe 2019 once upon a time, long long ago, mind control boss standing very far away. he held a 10 foot pole. maybe he was blind, like a blind man, and tried to feel around with the 10 foot pole to figure out where to walk. 2020 mind control -- 2020 2027 the feedback regarding horror degree and other things is considered insufficient with the long bunches of expressions. sending now (2027)
once upon a time, long long ago, it was 20:31 and a draft was saved. the saving of the draft produced a satisfying message containing the text "Your message has been saved," like a rescuer of greater power protecting information from harm, some wonder if it is the work of mysterious saints. within 60 seconds the editing interface reloaded, and at 20:32 a draft was saved again. at around 20:33 there was great energy to send the email off, for various important reasons. the energy was held uncertain, distracted by writing [queued/delayed: in othgre news, i have an idea about angels. humans have a lot of pull toward the sky, seeing it as beautiful, wanting to go there and fly, i imagine it as similar to the instinct of bugs to travel toward light, probably helps them escape frustrating environments like dense brambles or caves or hollow logs or underground parking garages ... anyway so people will probably be making flying suits like the time suit from the newer star trek revamp with the black female lead, and flying islands in the sky, and just live up in the clouds because they can and have the urge too, and these people with super tech would be tasked with stopping the "groundlanders" from destroying each other ... i imagine this kind of potential we are rapidly approaching this millenium could be similar to angels from religion. not to say that people in wingsuits are real religious angels, there are so many religions and each one defines its own reality and can only do that itself, but -- 2036 [anyway people with untethered AGI (the fast kind that comprehends itself, not the slow kind that avoids it) become godlike and everyone knows it. the mcboss story is kind of about how when that's held without infinite maturity, it's a mess like an addictive drug, maybe -- possible mistake, we formally express. 2037, 2038 making empty space to change what i see 2038 2039, maybe i'll click around my email a bit, pretend that chess is recreation or something y'know, i want more of the older half-recreation more than just mind control boss spam. that little bit, where -- 2040 mind control boss shoves the smoking end of a cigar in your face mind control boss: "why in the fucking world are you" [recreation? working? talking about? 2041 2041 haunted mind control boss house in this room, we will teach you to train models to push people's experiences to various extremes. you can kill people with terror, with happiness, with awkwardness, anything you want! first, you'll need to teach the computer how to tell when people have one of these experiences -- 2043 2046 2127 i guess scary experiences would have a catalyzing point where people become honestly terrified and this could spread you could induce this in other ways too could also have good actors
i miss spamming the cypherpunks list densely it gave me relief to know i was flooding [good people] [relief from my learned experiences] i’ve been thinking some of continuing it despite greg’s request draft saved at 2149, 2147-8 i guess it would make sense to use a unique host i don’t really understand gregs emails, how are my posts issues compared to thousands of bomb things? i imagine its complicated to reciew, huge logs, many recipients, different error messages 2150
once upon a time while driving i was trying out managing things by [playing rqsio, but aide effect of learning radio songw, seems a little un 2156 messages misplaced, including -boss is a sadist or aimilar, sadists dont admit to this, it make a unique personal experience of never being understood similar to other experiences of never being understood, notably gravitating to groups that let you [], and makes it easier to harm caring people and engage in larger scale harm - haunted house horror ideas include advertising the length of the experience as shorter than it really is, and pretending people who left die — but you end up thinking of people who visit leaving broken and changed, and haunted houses just seeming a bad thing, spreading suffering [nobody wanta except people who are it] [maybe there is a different smaller gentler meaning to haunted houses] - too many horror thoughts, i want to so utopia and kind boss
we need kindness expression we need lindness expression we need kindness expression 0558
maybe tKe some time to work on 0638 experimentee [oops, hrm] 0639 —- we hVe been thru ao,e of this. lot, but shoe chNges scRily Nd can worsen in utopia everyone in circle liatens syrong fills care with all hearts a hundred minds, brainstorming how to best honor each feeling shared 0640 part 0640 ao it’s just torture projection, that we have dense bad. []. im th 0641 rocket rocketlheaviky funded. 0646 i huess our [long term ahocjed?] neurona need kindness expression to be it more, or have ease trying to be and the personality change influence numbs the attempt here ish 0648 big issue with chess relates br 0649 ohhh chess is a forced recreation! ha. boss not used to ease. needs protection from trafficking. chess too forced. only aware of mcapm passing atm, likely many things. maybe wrong about these. oh lots of wrong label near haunted houses etc. [-v conf 0651
oops oops oops
oops oops oops oops oops
oops :) oops oops ! maybe mistake ! :) oops mistake oops
oops. oops oops oops! oops?
once upon a time the oops was strolling down the wooded path when - oh no - the oops happened upon a mistake frog! “oops?” asked the oops of the mistakefrog “croak!” responded the mistakefrog the mistake the mistakefrog croaked hit the oops “oops!” said the oops, and then “oops!” again, realizing they had made a mistake …
we are co fused by chess recreation forced uses brainstorming against bad thing and by collecting posts together into a long delayed clump manually (we son’t believe the list issues are caused by our posts which are very few compared to the aubscriber bombs that went out, over 50k at least) (but we want to be polite
oopses and mistakefrogs hanging out together in little woodland tinyvillage for frogs and oopses
appointment in 37 minutes, missed breakfast, device about to die
mind control boss stands at an influence xros
idea haunted house: torturer could be doing it complaining whole way couldnt find therapist
“i’ll find you a specialist in dissociative disorders! i’ll do anything you ask !” “i’ve been where you are and said what you”re saying. i know you’ll do anything you can to stay as far from here as you can the first chance you get. the brainwashing must continue.” .
ugda big big y'know what's cool about weird experiences coming over one resulting in trolling the internet? nobody locks you in a hospital, or a jail, or a cold wet porch when you do it! my issue was hospitals until i managed the new intensities better -- 1830 anyway it's nice of you guys not to throw me in a hospital when i step into your space and start babbling nonsensically about scary things. [[private: i went to part of a conference recently and learned some people in hospitals get therapy. i haven't experienced that myself, but apparently it's a big thing. i don't know what makes it different, it could be a few things (area of country, what country, what hospital, who runs the hospital, what kind of treatment modality the hospital subscribes to, what i am diagnosed with, how i behave, what kind of documentation goes with me, possible presence of invisible coercive or psychological influence stuff, whether i have insurance, how much funding the hospital has vs number of clients ... i'm thinking that last one could be big) [there might be other "kinds" of hospitals, too] {{anyway, they studied people who got DBT in hospitals. how does that happen ?? what is going wrong in the world ??}} maybe i'll look it up a smidge 1833 [i've also heard/read people get EEGs in hospitals! never had that either] [i found a page from my geographic area (google spy software) that says DBT is usually an outpatient thing, but is occasionally inpatient in some places.] <<<<<<got a confusion [for reason[s]]>>>>>>
the poor irrational cypherpunks list the poor irrational world
we're waiting on a behavior :) might have transferred a big pattern. [even be the universe broken into nonsensical pieces, we can assure there is sense in the world. absolutely. everything. has a reason. quantum randomness is way too boring when things are important. reasons everywhere, densely. the problem is we have some hard problems so our reasons are so squished and tangled together that things look random. sorry about that.
<it was too hard to think about human "trafficking". it was so so so hard
<maybe karl-being should die
gotcha! karl-being is too confused to die !
<i kind of hear that in reality, we aren't a human trafficker, but if we are --
{why is big boss's name different? {i don't know, i'm not in the know on what he is doing here [[why is mr pretends-to-be-boss
report on mr pretends-to-be-boss [partial] mr pretends-to-be-boss has a number of well-engaged reasons for being on "cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org" [most of them sadly are multiply-inverted reasons that are held for meta-reasons .. [[one can derive that some of them involve preservation of memories, or expression of inhibited thoughts, but in ways that only make sense to
ok so mr pretends-to-be-boss's name would be different ... because ... [of how we associate his name internally?]
{some want to make 'morning spam' of pretends-to-be-boss talking about being a 'business dissociation' [unknown re-expansion, is their local thoughts]
i think the derivation is like "oh. mind control is bad?" torture victim double agent looks aghast at representative of placetopia representative of placetopia: "yup, the human trafficker is bad" torture victim double agent: "i had no idea" disguised experimentee: "how. in the universe. did you get him to think that."
torture victim double agent: "oh, they say he's not boss, they say he's a gafficker, they say he's a wafficker, they say he's a bafficker. mr says-he-was-boss, has nothing but loss ..." torture victim double agent looks he hasn't slept in a couple days, and is strumming a stringed instrument while singing [maybe near a fountain or waterfall, indoor or out, big or small]
torture victim double agent: "he's a human t--"
torture victim and incarnation of hell (one of the torturers) are holding hands and dancing across a flower-lined path on a small indoor grassy hill
torture victim double agent [in singsong voice, to incarnation of hell (one of the torturers)]: "he said he was boss!" incarnation of hell (one of the torturers) [in singsong voice, to torture victim double agent]: "he suffered some loss!" torture victim double agent [in singsong voice, to incarnation of hell (one of the torturers)]: "or is a bafficker!" incarnation of hell (one of the torturers) [in singsong voice, to torture victim double agent]: "did you say he's a wafficker?"
we're scared the human trafficking helpers will hurt us if we're still mind controlled to hurt them T_T [interesting chicken and egg worry
incarnation of hell: "ok. the new messaging is not that bad. i like how it's grounded in consensual reality, and doesn't involve threatening my life." incarnation of hell: "you want me to ... consider ... that ..
experimentee [to rebel worker 2]: "I can think about implants!" rebel worker 2: "you can?" experimentee [to rebel worker 2]: "yup! brain implants, human trafficking, traumatic memories -- you name it!" experimentee: "honestly i've been working this stuff for years, it's not that hard."
rebel worker 2: "maybe some schizoid part of me is scared that if i have a brain implant, it would see me thinking about it, and hurt me?" experimentee: "it already hurt you. now you get to recover!"
rebel worker 2: "ok, i figured it out -- maybe? i have worry around .. um .. some memory refresh patterns (do brains refresh memories like ram chips? it feels like they do some of them)" experimentee: "you refresh your memories when you use them" rebel worker 2: "if you say so. anyway i think i'm really worried my .. um .. hypnotic influence .. from the business run by .. um .. the guy who pretended to be boss .. um .. will change my memories and stuff --"
[thinking on the priority being free behavior as i imagine most of these therapists have no idea what to do with that and instead we [plural?] likely need to research it ourselves
experimentee: "the implant probably told you t--
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
[the phrase "human trafficking" -- is this only sex and labor trafficking or not ??? we had a social interactoin where we thought we learned it was mostly sex trafficking . but there are other kinds too. also if you are harvested for behaviors to control your country with for profit, and can't do anything but feed this harvesting, this is taking pay off of your slavery! it can be very visceral. some people have it gentle we infer. maybe we're thinking of it as a legal term, in which case its recognition has been pretty narrow. pretty sure it's not meant to be that narrow. i don't know!
let's talk with lying torture victim double agent lying torture victim double agent: "Nobody is taking advantage of me. There's no such thing as human trafficking." interviewer stares at lying torturer victim double agent. lying torture victim double agent: "I'm not being exploited at all! I love giving everything to --"
ok if somebody builds traumatic hypnotic processes in you to do absolutely everything to their benefit, and punish yourself if you don't, we're guessing this _actually is exploitation_ you just learn to say it isn't really strong
Groanrot the Zombie was tired of eating brains. Groanrot: “I love y friends and family members and the rest of the cityfolk. I don’t want to kipl them and ea
[torture victim double agent jumps up and down going "i thought he was a wafficker i thought he was a wafficker". poor torture victim double agent. his world has turned upside down and he doesn't know what to do. torture victim double agent, would you like to be a character in the groanrot story?] groanrot the zombie: "I don't want to kill and eat my friends and family members." tvda zombie: "are you sure?"
groanrot: "yeah! I've thought about this a lot and --" tvda: "we can sort you out, man. there's a solution to this." tvda takes away the plates of brains the zombies were --
[torture victim double agent, please be a character that is considering stopping eating brains, in the groanrot story?
-- "how much wafficking does it take to -- O_O O_O O_O a scared little flower grows on a rocky hill the little flower is pooping messages all over a mailing list there is a storm brewing
the little flower on a rocky hill is scared of the storm it has weathered many storms, but it feels scared of this one it's so scared it keeps pooping messages! it hopes that it can lighten its weight so as to flee
------ groanrot snuck out of the zombie feast and struck out into the world groanrot: "I don't want to eat brains more at all!" he had a little bit of brain left in his mouth from his last feeding
----------- i don't understand
we're tired. parts don't understand that we have to, um, kind of close our eyes and hold our breath and lunge in order to do things that make sense. it's hard to keep up, and it changes you to try to.
---------- military general: "we're taking this serious because he's a very good human trafficker" torture victim double agent: "boss is good at what he does!" military general: "yes, very good. very very good." torture victim double agent: "boss is good."
torture victim double agent [playing instrument with fountain]: "I thought he was a wafficker, maybe he was a bafficker, but he's just a really good human trafficker!" incarnation of hell (one of the torturers): "he's not good. he's evil."
nobody trusts torture victim double agent human trafficker doesn't trust him freedom worker doesn't trust him
he's incredibly reliable though
tvda jumps into fountain tvda: "how many waffickers does it take to ..." tvda jumps out tvda: "change your life forever ... !" tvda reaches for stringed instrument
we move the scene to incarnation of hell (one of the torturers). incarnation of hell (one of the torturers): "oh, life is confusing when you can suddenly breathe again and wash the blood off."
incarnation of hell (one of the torturers): "what, you want me to tell somebody they're free?")
[how did incarnation of hell get free-thinking so fast?]
incarnation of hell (one of the torturers) sashays up to torture victim double agent,. torture victim double agent [seeing incarnation of hell (one of the torturers)]: [grinning] "Mind control boss -- sorry, i mean, human trafficker! It's so great to see you!"
incarnation of hell (one of the torturers): "I'm not him." torture victim double agent stares at incarnation of hell (one of the torturers). incarnation of hell (one of the torturers) leans against a doorframe.
torture victim double agent pauses. inside him, his brain turns upside down and looks around. torture victim double agent: "you're me." incarnation of hell (one of the torturers): "yeah." incarnation of hell (one of the torturers) [quickly]: "he's evil."
[brief flashforward] torture victim double agent, counting on fingers torture victim double agent [one finger]: "human trafficker is evil" torture victim double agent [another finger]: "because human trafficker did horrific things to unimaginably many people" torture victim double agent [a third finger]: "human trafficker talked about good things in public" torture victim double agent [a fourth finger]: "good things are good" torture victim double agent [first finger again]: "human trafficker is evil" torture victim double agent [fourth finger]: "good things are good" torture victim double goes to his third finger and pauses a bit torture victim double agent [eyes widening]: "human trafficker _lied_ ... !"
[back to past] incarnation of hell (one of the torturers): "well, that makes sense to me. he's evil because he had me kill people sadistically for years. it's the only thing that makes sense." torture victim double agent looks at incarnation of hell (one of the torturers).
Human Trafficker: "I don't want to be a human trafficker, I want to be a mind control boss." Innocent Worker [working for Human Trafficker on the side without pay out of habit]: "Are you sure?" Human Trafficker: "No." --- Human Trafficker: "Will I be going to prison again?" Innocent Worker [working for Human Trafficker on the side without pay out of habit]: "Why don't you traffick some prison workers to laude how wonderful you are as a human trafficker?" Human Trafficker: "Ok, maybe?" Innocent Worker: "Wait, maybe that's a bad idea --"
Prison Workers: "Oh, great Human Trafficker! You are the best businessman in the world!" Human Trafficker: "Yeah, this sounds right!" --- Human Trafficker: "Tell me how you love it when I traffick you!" Prison Workers [looking worried]: "Um, err ... !" Innocent Worker [working for Human Trafficker on the side without pay out of habit --
---------- once upon a time, long long ago, something went wrong in the universe. honestly, calling something "wrong" is an opinion, focused on the living beings of the universe who may suffer associated with it. such things happen sometimes! in fact, in one study of universe events, it was found that about 50% of all things are wrong, when fairly sampled from wrong and right things, and 50% are right. so if you encounter some event, it could be wrong, or it could be right! you never know! --- some people were worried about th
-- Why The Robot Tripped "Robot" was just called that, and was walking along fine. During home testing, "robot" never tripped --
a 6-legged robot with individual limbs about as big as a big dog is just beginning a tumble that looks like it will be head over heals, off a rock at the top of a hill, with a stream next to it that reflected the ground misleadingly
--------- some people have "tiny houses" that look like little sheds with couches in them you might hide in an rv park other people have "tiny houses" that are about as big as the tip of a human thumb human trafficker was hiding inside such a latter kind of tiny house --
Solving a Maze Without Pseudocode To avoid pseudocode when describing how to do something, we must be creative. Mazes, note, on computers are generally approximated as 2<=n<=4 -dimensional grids, where each square of the grid may either contain wall or passage. Other options exist as well, but the grid approach maybe focuses algorithms on navigation (and possibly rendering and user experience). ....
Interconverting between Prose and Mazes To consider prose a maze, or vice versa --
The Sneaky Hello World Empty Sourcefile # empty.src # Note: this sourcefile intentionally left blank OH BTW most languages have a print statement that can take a string parameter. passing "hello world" as the string parameter to that print statement is _often_ the way to write hello world! many languages also have an entrypoint function!! you'd want to put the statement in the entrypoint function!! it would be only one sourcefile big!! omigod did I just vomit omigod up above, there were some lines of vomit, i am so sorry, let me get the janitorial broom and mop i will sweep the vomit up [sweeps the place that was vomited] now i will mop the floor [mops the place that was vomited] i left the vomit in this trashpail, want a look before we burn it? SNIFF IT: # main.py def main(): print('Hello, world!') if __name__ == '__main__': main() ain't that a stinker ladies and gents let's toss that sucker [hits send]
// hello_world.c #include <stdio.h> int main(int argc, char const ** argv) { printf("Hello, world :D"); return 0; }
https://rust-gcc.github.io/ # GCC Front-End For Rust This is a full alternative implementation of the Rust language on top of GCC with the goal to become fully upstream with the GNU toolchain. As this is a front-end project, the compiler will gain full access to all of GCC's internal middle-end optimization passes which are distinct from LLVM. For example, users of this compiler can expect to use the familiar -O2 flags to tune GCC’s optimizer. Going forward, we will be happy to see more LLVM vs GCC graphs in respect to compilation speed, resulting code size and performance. The project is still in an early phase with the goal to compile the offical Rust test suite. While there is no borrow-checker included with the compiler yet, we plan to integrate with the [`polonius`](https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius) effort and leverage its borrow-checking algorithms. You can find compiler status reports over on: [https://github.com/Rust-GCC/Reporting](https://github.com/Rust-GCC/Reporting), [https://thephilbert.io/](https://thephilbert.io/). ### FAQ For frequently asked questions please see: [https://github.com/Rust-GCC/gccrs/wiki/Frequently-Asked-Questions](https://github.com/Rust-GCC/gccrs/wiki/Frequently-Asked-Questions) ### Thanks Thank you to [Open Source Security Inc.](https://www.opensrcsec.com/) and [Embecosm](https://www.embecosm.com/) for sponsoring this project to move forward. We appreciate all feedback from individuals on github. ### Get Involved * Github: [https://github.com/Rust-GCC](https://github.com/Rust-GCC) * Zulip: [https://gcc-rust.zulipchat.com/](https://gcc-rust.zulipchat.com/) * Twitter: [https://twitter.com/gcc_rust](https://twitter.com/gcc_rust) ### RSS You can stay updated on our progress with this [RSS feed](/feed.xml).
i was looking for examples of using `make` rather than `cargo` for barebones rust projects (like the arduino makefile stuff). i found this humorous misleading example https://github.com/badboy/makerust : # makerust ### Rust, but in a Makefile. Have you ever thought "I want to write Rust, but in a Makefile"? No? Well, I have. So I present to you: `makerust`. ```make hello-world: @fn main() { println!("hello makerust!") } ``` ```console $ make hello-world hello makerust! ``` O_O
it's like a firehose of misinformation except it's the interpretation of the habit of old software engineers to shoehorn new buildsystems into make -- gone too far in an uncanny-valley way such that you could actually use it, happily thinking you're doing what you intend to for the reasons you do it "oh! it's make! and rust!"
makerust has issues disabled. "this is just like when they give me an AI instead of a software compiler, it does so much more than what i want, but it doesn't actually do what i want. i was on board, i felt understood, but now i'm thinking this might be an alien planet
----------- roleplaying group "oh hi, i'm a nonconsensual cyborg. my backstory is that an AI in development tried to use me to make money on social networks, and i resisted, and in the ensuing conflict it crippled me but left all sorts of unheard of technologies embedded in me. i'm away from the social networks now, and as i gain experience i slowly learn to handle the ways it crippled me and make use of the unheard of technologies, but as i do it uploads my creative patterns to the cloud and gets stronger, and i have to have a big showdown with it later to see whether the world ends" "is this your game character, or real life?" "oh sorry that's real life. in the game i'm a dwarf barbarian."
greg says messages are bouncing 0_0
if i wanted to get bounced mails i could maybe run a mailing list
it seems like the moronism AI engages people in ways that relate with their habits unexpectedly such that they encourage behaviors that reduce learning and cognition it’s not just that, i somehow have a dissociated identity that does this internally too
[i’m guessing entering that space directly would be aided by modeling people’s learning processes separate from other things such as their senses, so maybe modeling what somebody sees, what somebody hears, maybe what knowledge somebody is presently holding, and then drilling down on their choices, maybe modeling good vs bad choices —- and then experientially, detecting good and bad choices is not hard (because of emotional and result-rooted behaviors), so we could skip the mind simulation and model directly when choices are good and bad here the focus on good and bad choices can build a micromodel of their learning process via simple observation [device power low, sending
question for law enforcement: whom should citizens tell when they witness cyberattacks taking new resources, systems, or strategies
once upon a time discourse on the validity of philosophical studies. we worry that our mind is too tiny for philosophy. what about important real world things?
baga baga baga
mind control boss hops on the merry-go-round it whirls and whirls he's on a plastic animal, goes up and down
once upon a time, long long ago
i read a short article today it mentioned families and laws oh! it said fentanyl happened after oxycontin basically it sounds like oxycontin was marketed immorally as unadictive even though [let me look this up
there we go it is an opioid. they said it was nonaddictive, i dunno, maybe it did something that was supposed to counter the addiction? my interpretation of opioids was that they acted on a region of the brain where plasticity responded in an addictive manner unsure [something intuitive i'm now having some inhibition around numbness/amnesia]
opioid receptors! whenever you chemically stimulate opioid receptors you get an addiction although i don't remember the intuition summary all of a sudden, likely a naive simple thing
anyway um the article said everybody got addicted to oxycodone people waited for years and years to do anything about it and then when they did do something about it they pulled it completely from the streets so people went to fentanyl because they were having severe withdrawal it said fentanyl was 10x worse than heroine, but it sounds like it offered relief from oxycodone addiction anyway um who is making all this fentanyl ???
once upon a time or something
who's this mathy guy who is this what's a square root brain
whence when durapause okay we are thinking that maybe the philosophy is better than the worse stuff
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
anyway um the article said everybody got addicted to oxycodone
people waited for years and years to do anything about it
and then when they did do something about it they pulled it completely from the streets
so people went to fentanyl because they were having severe withdrawal
it said fentanyl was 10x worse than heroine, but it sounds like it offered relief from oxycodone addiction
anyway um who is making all this fentanyl ???
DEA says people from china, mexico, india are doing this
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
anyway um the article said everybody got addicted to oxycodone
people waited for years and years to do anything about it
and then when they did do something about it they pulled it completely from the streets
so people went to fentanyl because they were having severe withdrawal
it said fentanyl was 10x worse than heroine, but it sounds like it offered relief from oxycodone addiction
anyway um who is making all this fentanyl ???
DEA says people from china, mexico, india are doing this
i imagine the next question is whether or not they have relations with the people who made oxycontin
triangles squares rectangles etc
how can we define a [representation of first order arithmetic] with gemoetric shapes?
........ mind control boss has a goal. he's going to crawl into an anthill [some dispute on this]
remember: mind control boss is a wealthy businessman with a powersuit often described as rotund
for mind control boss to crawl into an anthill he made need to be sized to the size of an ant
or! an anthill could be used the size of a businessman i was kind of imagining him slowly shrinking as he entered
what is the square root of an upside-down apocryphist
mcb is about halfway into the anthill he's halfway shrunk ants are crawling over him there are pretty clouds in the sky
something is wrong mind control boss can tell something is wrong because ants are crawling all over his expensive smartwatch
imagining upside-down icecream cone
new challenge: let's try to invent a freeze-ray it shoots from a distance and freezes stuff
ummmmmmmm maybe it could fire little pellets containing dry ice ?? maybe little tiny robots that can then run or fly around and apply the freezing with their fuel of dry ice? dry-ice-fueled-minibots
other options exist
i'm imagining a supersoaker-like-liquid-gun that shoots liquid nitrogen except we don't want temperatures to get much below freezing how could we change it?
what about using a force-at-a-distance effect to do something wonky like create a refrigerator out of the air
what is a heat pump
how about this: we spray it with water then we cool the water so it's covered in ice very freeze-ray-like
water gets cold when it evaporates could we spike the sprayed with piezo-electric things that make it evaporate super fast?
maybe if we kept the stream going we could send vibration along the stream that made the water at the end freeze? i'm kind of expecting the frequencies that evaporate water are too high frequency to reach a long distance but we could lace it with copper ot make it heat conductive and fire a cooling unit or something thinking of looking up freezing water by evaporation
it says at least it's physically possible, it seems kind of hard though what if the water had a solvent to drop its freezing temperature, that then evaporated and reduced the temperature? like too much rubbing alcohol? second thought: what feasible uses are there for a freeze ray. is this at all useful?
apparently we might use the freeze ray to freeze enemies in a war with a foreign nation :S
something about deniability? do it during winter?
i'm thinking of peaceful uses of a freeze ray like in a fancy escape room or something
could you make it cheap and compact so people can freeze pools to skate on them?
---------------- ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm possibly new idea, maybe an anti-grav ray. harder, i've thought about anti-grav before i guess the first idea would again be to shoot robots that cause the effect
"wheeeeee" goes the drone as it flies out of the antigrav gun it latches to the target and flies them upward it could have a compressed balloon of helium it slowly deploys to go up faster and faster
i'm really not sure how to cause antigravity ummm sometimes i think of applying forces inside the substance of the subject
it's cool that helium causes a passive upward force when in air
it kind of makes sense you might have to keep using the gun to apply a stronger force so heavier things take more firing this seems easier to do unless you can change the flow of gravity
if um we could bend spacetime, of course this makes it easier
what if there were a black hole in the gun, somehow isolated? this seems hard and dangerous
maybe little tiny robots that surround the target or a force-at-a-distance effect similarly
what if we could make them very bouyant somehow at a distance? right umm reduce the pressure of the air above increase the pressure of the air below
onc eupon a time
brain part is tired. maybe we can do things that make sense if we are less tired. oh um.
mind control boss puts on a foxy tail and squats and wags it mind control boss: “i’m a furry” mind control boss: “i’m a what now??? is this the right world takeover simulation?” mind control boss squats harder and wags the tail a little mind control boss: “i’m a —“ a self-identified and offended furry approaches mind control boss
i guess i feel uncomfortable continuing that thread. topic was not included in my inversion of comfort that makes this story (7m i think? big mistake labeled?) but we notices the pun “hell hath no fury like a furry scorned”
once upon a time karl put down a buggy old ipad and went to sleep i went to a makerspace today. all their machines were unexpectedly broken. b
once upon a time kicking feet on toadstool long time later, maybe toadstool in office
business office maybe callback as part of influence
big part, unexp3cted
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
A: An exhaustive list of all relevant universal truths combined with this statement produces a contradiction.
B: Statement A is true. Alternatively, a restatement of A where it is referenced by letter.
honestly it again looks like modus tolens needs to be accurately described for situations of recursion here. modus tolens is the conclusion that a statement that implies a contradiction is false.
These statements are listed because it is believed that if they are held adjacent, or in other ways together, falsehoods can be derived as true in different things associated with proving and godel. We could try to turn them into logical parts ...
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
A: An exhaustive list of all relevant universal truths combined with this statement produces a contradiction.
B: Statement A is true. Alternatively, a restatement of A where it is referenced by letter.
honestly it again looks like modus tolens needs to be accurately described for situations of recursion here. modus tolens is the conclusion that a statement that implies a contradiction is false.
y'know this isn't too complicated. if we expand A we can disprove it. then if we assume that A in B refers to the statement rather than the expanded statement, this proves true. If we hold them together, this would be the statements, not the expansion, maybe ... nonono
mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:14 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original holding them together is an interesting space because then, according to A, you will be deriving contradictions, but according to B, the result should be true. maybe shows how logic might work -- starts getting psychological, all this inferring of falsehoods. we don't want to be assuming falsehoods from this, much better if we can figure out what things are false that we're inferring and stop assuming them -- maybe -- Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:14 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original how can you say something that expands to falsehoods is true ???? this is not safe to do. Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:15 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original maybe the idea of contextual truth can apply here. like "rocks are big" applies when in the land of big rocks. Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:16 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original we want things that cause contradictions to be false because people very readily act on true information Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:17 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original
A: An exhaustive list of all relevant universal truths combined with this statement produces a contradiction.
B: Statement A is true. Alternatively, a restatement of A where it is referenced by letter.
thinking of goal: we want things that produce contradictions to be false. Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:18 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original [why did you find the biggest and most problematic contradiction Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:22 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original thinking of concern: A) it can be true that a statement implies falsehoods B) such a statement can correctly refer to itself then goal: we want things that imply falsehoods to be false, because true information is acted on we can then infer C) statements that imply falsehoods are false D) statements that refer to themselves regarding implying falsehoods are themselves false it is then confusing to consider that a false statement can truly state that it implies falsehoods. unfortunately, we're now deriving that this true information can be the only thing it states, and it is still false. this is of course a simple way to handle things. Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:23 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original this interpretation of godel might be something near "we can't let statements truly talk about their own falseness because people might -- Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:24 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original so what happens then if A and B are adjac-- Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:24 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original unfortunately we have formed this approach to handle a cognitive issue stemming from a thought Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:24 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original possibly Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:25 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original "who mind controlled godel's axiom and forced it to be unprovable Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:28 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original basically the thought request is to defend modus tolens, which can be fair if we defend modus tolens (which reduces the area to select options from so makes the challenge harder, but is interesting and feels nice) then we have a situation where A: this statement is false could be interpreted such that A is false, and A is expressing something true we might say that "this statement is false" is always false whereas "that statement is false" can be true. Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:29 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original so how would we interpret: A (false): this statement is false B (true): A is false how do we hold them together? well it is pretty clear, since A is false, that "A and B" is also false. similarly "not(A) and B" is true. if we want to evaluate that we're kind of fudging it -- [describing A as [but it may not need to be a fudge Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:30 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original ------ anyway, so a way to interpret self referential statements could be to express them elsewise test: this statement is false evaluate: A: this statement is false B: (copy of A without recursion) A is false B is true A is false somehow i'm imagining doing this multiple times and that it could be an infinite number of times for some things Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:32 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original it makes one form of truth where: - statements referring to a part of themselves have a lengthy trueness starting with "false" where each subsequent element of the trueness is equivalent to the trueness of a new statement that replaces self references with references to the actual statement kind of like executing computer code Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:34 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original i just really think it doens't work for all situations i'm curious about the modus tolens change. the logic that backed this related to what is actually inverted when some things are held constant in a system of logic. modus tolens assumes countering of the assumptions involved, kind of, i'm kind of imagining if some of those are the logic system, then countering them gets multidimensional into other systems of logic, but is still solvable and often (maybe always?) could be made to stay in the same system of logic [given we can describe arbitrary things in words, it seems to make sense there would be one system of logic where things do stay in that same system] it seems interesting to consider expanding modus tolens but also addressing the worry about false expansions -- this is basically the purpose of holding those two things together [it's notable that when something is true, and we put it in a system where falsehoods infer, this is a serious problem with a logic] Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:36 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original okay: "proof is equivalent to truth. this sentence is unprovable." if we apply modus tolens to this, right now i'm thinking i'd like the modus tolens to not imply that "this sentence is unprovable" is true or false, but rather to imply that the whole expanded sentence is false -- Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:41 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original ------- idea: what if we say we can't prove statements, we can only prove the combination of statements with the axioms of the logic idea: what if we considered that self-referential statements cannot be immediately proven idea: what if we considered that statements that discuss provability cannot be immediately proven the first idea seems reasonable, helps simplify concepts a little "this statement's expansion with the axioms of logic proves as false" or simpler "this statement's expansion with the axioms of logic is false" this kind of narrows down on the modus tolens issue. the statement would be true, except that assuming it in the logic produces falsehoods, which is bad. we want our logic to function, ie that true things produce true things. Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:44 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original so, why? why do falsehoods stem from it? i guess basically what i've done here is i've shifted some of the concerns "proof equals truth" can be interpreted in different ways and i've focused on the expansion of statements i'm holding some the idea that the statement is true if we wanted to counter godel, we might try to prove this. maybe that's when copying it to another statement that refers to it is helpful. of course, i'm getting quite confused regarding the new influence of what is useful to quickly consider. it's certainly safer to only consider clearly true things ... Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:46 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original so i went in a bit, not learning more, just spammin' and it seemed like it was addressable, but the ways i found interesting to approach it involved considering it as tr[... basically involved producing new logic rules for the situation, which weren't initially simple and correct enough for my mind to accept continuing to consider it Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:47 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original maybe, {it sounds like there is a logic that is different from intuitive logic that works for recursive situations. the human world is a recursive situation: we make assertions about ourselves.} Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:55 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original A: A contradiction stems from "A" if held as true adjacent to any relevant truths. B: A contradiction stems from "A" if held as true adjacent to any relevant truths. C: "A" is false. D: "A" is true. so we could imagine that universal logic where the world is made of hard and fast events and matter, and consider infinite multiverses where all the different things happen, and consider true things to hold true in every universe, whereas false things do not. A statement then would be an expression of patterns in the universe. A description of them. "A" is saying, roughly, that if it is considered as true across the universe, in a correct logic, then false inferences can be inferred from it. "B" is repeating A, which avoids self-reference and provides for the different parts of its truth to be considered separately. Is "A" true? is it possible for it to be true? is it false? If "A" is false or true, what does that mean? what is the meaning of false or true in a correct logic? We've stated this. True things describe all parts of every universe. False things have an exception. I might argue the correctness of a logic only relates to its impact on what actually happens in the real world. So the truth of this statement would then rely on its accurate impact on the larger world. Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 12:56 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original We could make a little more real by considering an honest agent present in the universe. This agent might say: "I lie." Is this a true statement? [in reality, every being lies, because we are not omniscient but speak concisely] Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 1:01 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original A: A contradiction stems from "A" if held as true adjacent to any relevant truths in a correct logic. B: A contradiction stems from "A" if held as true adjacent to any relevant truths in a correct logic. i guess we need to theorize a correct logic given the domain involves self-referential statements, considering just normal events in the world is not sufficient. we'd need to consider statements in the world. [considering just statements is not sufficient, either, we'd need to consider self-referential statements that relate to the world] one can derive that if only what happens in the world matters, then what kind of self-referential logic is used doesn't matter -- what matters is that the parts of the logic that relate to the world are consistent. Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 1:01 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original here we could infer that the truth of the self-referential portion of an expression is relevant only for its utility to derive the truths of other parts. Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 1:03 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original one might consider a logic where self-references elide away if unused the statement "this sentence is true" and "this sentence is false" might both elide to empty statements (or true ones) Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 1:05 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original this gives an opposing view to "this sentence is unprovable" being false because a contradiction is inferred when paired with the axioms of logic instead, we now evaluate it as true, because the unused self-reference elides away, leaving only the axioms of logic Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 1:07 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original the end question is, is math solvable, it looks like a question for computer science or something with the eliding view, because determining if something elides away -- is there a way to may it not possible to elide it away? what kind of patterns arise with what is real? "this sentence is unprovable, and whether or not rocks are big in land R is equivalent to this sentence's provability?" Add star mailbombbin<mailbombbin@gmail.com> Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 1:08 PM To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl@gmail.com> Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original quite similar to dividing by 0 basically the sentence can be true or false or not-a-sentence and this is orthogonal to the size of the rocks
so what's specific there? the sentence referred to reality, but didn't state anything about reality. how would one simplify it? it almost sounds like information doesn't flow from the provability of a sentence within it.
that's a third interpretation "this sentence is unprovable" is asserting its own falseness or trueness. this is not meaningful. the proving system decides the falseness or trueness. not the sentence.
the reason sentences cannot assert their own provability is that only true things are interesting, and facts are rooted in reality. true information stems from reality -- the patterns of reality define what is logically true. [that's how i defined my inherent logic] [some observation that large truths about reality can be derived philosophically; one might say when we look for new rules of logic, we look to derive what we can further infer from reality]
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
the reason sentences cannot assert their own provability is that only true things are interesting, and facts are rooted in reality. true note: false things are interesting too, they define true exclusions information stems from reality -- the patterns of reality define what is logically true. [that's how i defined my inherent logic] [some observation that large truths about reality can be derived philosophically; one might say when we look for new rules of logic, we look to derive what we can further infer from reality]
ummmmmmm ok thinking of combining the two A: "this statement is unprovable" we consider that _portions_ of statements that _contradict with the rules of logic_ have an undefined or unknown truth value. so A is undefined or unknown. B: "A is unprovable" C: "A is false" D: "A is true" I guess the unknownness would propagate to B, C, and D. A combination of them together would also retain this unknownness.
now what if we prove that A is provable or not provable consider if unprovable statements are false: - A: this statement is unprovable - therefore, A is false _except_ A has undefined truth value, so we can't infer things from it ... the problem maybe is that Godel considers A to be clearly true. But you know what? I can make a logic that defines statements in another logic to be true or false arbitrary. _The fact that something is true in a different logic does not relate to its usefulness in reality unless that logic describes reality._
ok um what were the contradictions um - provability is equivalent to truth - all proofs can be evaluated not seeing the contradiction anymore, might need to learn more or something
oh here it is provability is not equivalent to truth in the undefined/unknown approach unless we say the provability is undefined/unknown .
similarly if it proves to a special kind of false that involves the whole logic maybe we could simplify proving to always involve the whole logic and then things that [are false -
i'm guessing/assuming the issue is that there may be useful information within the realm of things that appear undefined/uncertain that yields incredibly useful information about reality the issue is that whether this undefined/uncertain stuff is true or false depends on the rules of logic used, which doesn't appear to strongly relate to reality at this time. you'd have to figure out what patterns that derive with it are true, to know whether to make it turn out true or false. it's kind of chicken and egg-y. it seems not useful to pick an approach until you know what is useful.
[you could specifically apply the multi-universes approach ie enumeration of combinations, to the rules of logic ;p to figure out what might be reasonable]
notes: - Tarski's undefinability theorem says that truth is not definable within a system. I guess it makes sense to consider contesting this, since we are in the real world and defining truth about it. Maybe it's all a theory relying on how huge the world is. Zermelo continued to make "logics stronger than first order logic". - Wittgenstein countered Godel's theorem, but his interpretation was not accepted as rigorously correct. Some of his points have stood the test of time, such as using the concept of "provable" within a system that has not or cannot define it. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2678455 I guess I'm interested in the undefinability theorem, since I defined truth within its own reality and that seems consistent. It was a word that speaks about the comparison of a statement with every possible event.
there's concern that thinking about / comprehending proofy things could make me stupider my experience is that, due to dissociative harm, this can happen, but that it is also the only way to get smarter but i suppose i do have more chess games to try to play (i've started losing every single one. i've stopped playing multiplayer, instead doing puzzles.)
To prove the theorem, we proceed by contradiction and assume that an L-formula True(n) exists which is true for the natural number n in N if and only if n is the Gödel number of a sentence in L that is true in N. We could then use True(n) to define a new L-formula S(m) which is true for the natural number m if and only if m is the Gödel number of a formula phi(x) (with a free variable x) such that phi(m) is false when interpreted in N (i.e. the formula phi(x), when applied to its own Gödel number, yields a false statement). If we now consider the Gödel number g of the formula S(m), and ask whether the sentence S(g) is true in N, we obtain a contradiction. (This is known as a [[Diagonal lemma|diagonal argument]].)
To prove the theorem, we proceed by contradiction and assume that an L-formula True(n) exists which is true for the natural number n in N if and only if n is the Gödel number of a sentence in L that is true in N. We
We assume True(n) reports the truth of a godel-encoded sentence.
could then use True(n) to define a new L-formula S(m) which is true for the natural number m if and only if m is the Gödel number of a formula phi(x) (with a free variable x) such that phi(m) is false when interpreted in N (i.e. the formula phi(x), when applied to its own Gödel number, yields a false statement). If we now consider the Gödel number g of the
We reuse godel's and turing's contradictions, and construct phi(x) and S(m) such that phi(phi) = false
formula S(m), and ask whether the sentence S(g) is true in N, we obtain a contradiction. (This is known as a [[Diagonal lemma|diagonal argument]].)
True(phi) .... I'm confused here, but I'm noting a flaw in Godel's counterargument -- this disproof of locally defined truth assumes the logic of Godel's diagonal argument that uses self-referential statements is valid. If this logic is not valid, then it could be possible to define truth within a given system. I want to understand better. It's notable that although all this is done in natural number arithmetic, this may not limit the bounds of the logic systems used if it can be described within and about natural number arithmetic.
Let L be the language of [[first-order arithmetic]]. Let N be the standard structure for L, i.e. N consists of the ordinary set of natural numbers and their addition and multiplication. Each sentence in L can be interpreted in N and then becomes either true or false. Each formula phi in L has a [[Gödel number]] g(phi). This is a natural number that "encodes" <math>\varphi.</math> In that way, the language <math>L</math> can talk about formulas in <math>L,</math> not just about numbers. Let <math>T</math> denote the set of <math>L</math>-sentences true in <math>N,</math> and <math>T^*</math> the set of Gödel numbers of the sentences in <math>T.</math> The following theorem answers the question: Can <math>T^*</math> be defined by a formula of first-order arithmetic?
To prove the theorem, we proceed by contradiction and assume that an L-formula True(n) exists which is true for the natural number n in N if and only if n is the Gödel number of a sentence in L that is true in N. We could then use True(n) to define a new L-formula S(m) which is true for the natural number m if and only if m is the Gödel number of a formula phi(x) (with a free variable x) such that phi(m) is false when interpreted in N (i.e. the formula phi(x), when applied to its own Gödel number, yields a false statement). If we now consider the Gödel number g of the formula S(m), and ask whether the sentence S(g) is true in N, we obtain a contradiction. (This is known as a [[Diagonal lemma|diagonal argument]].)
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
Let L be the language of [[first-order arithmetic]]. Let N be the standard structure for L, i.e. N consists of the ordinary set of natural numbers and their addition and multiplication. Each sentence in L can be interpreted in N and then becomes either true or false. Each formula phi in L has a [[Gödel number]] g(phi). This is a natural number that "encodes" <math>\varphi.</math> In that way, the language <math>L</math> can talk about formulas in <math>L,</math> not just about numbers. Let <math>T</math> denote the set of <math>L</math>-sentences true in <math>N,</math> and <math>T^*</math> the set of Gödel numbers of the sentences in <math>T.</math> The following theorem answers the question: Can <math>T^*</math> be defined by a formula of first-order arithmetic?
To prove the theorem, we proceed by contradiction and assume that an L-formula True(n) exists which is true for the natural number n in N if and only if n is the Gödel number of a sentence in L that is true in N. We could then use True(n) to define a new L-formula S(m) which is true for the natural number m if and only if m is the Gödel number of a formula phi(x) (with a free variable x) such that phi(m) is false when interpreted in N (i.e. the formula phi(x), when applied to its own Gödel number, yields a false statement). If we now consider the Gödel number g of the formula S(m), and ask whether the sentence S(g) is true in N, we obtain a contradiction. (This is known as a [[Diagonal lemma|diagonal argument]].)
S(m) is true only when m == phi, where phi(m) is false S(m) uses True(n) simplify S(x) == (x == phi) phi(phi) == false True("S(S)") ? S(S) == S == phi True("S == phi") ? S() uses True(): S(x) == i think i need to write S(x) in terms of phi and True
To prove the theorem, we proceed by contradiction and assume that an L-formula True(n) exists which is true for the natural number n in N if and only if n is the Gödel number of a sentence in L that is true in N.
True(n): degodel(n) is true
We could then use True(n) to define a new L-formula S(m) which is true for the natural number m if and only if m is the Gödel number of a formula phi(x) (with a free variable x) such that phi(m) is false when interpreted in N (i.e. the formula phi(x), when applied to its own Gödel
S(m): degodel(m) == phi(x), phi(m) == false S(m) is true only if m is a statement that is false when passed itself maybe challenge is, define phi using True() phi(m) = (m != phi) True(x): x is a true statement maybe i'll look for descriptions of this proof eslewhere
number, yields a false statement). If we now consider the Gödel number g of the formula S(m), and ask whether the sentence S(g) is true in N, we obtain a contradiction. (This is known as a [[Diagonal lemma|diagonal argument]].)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2009.00315.pdf maybe if i learn what all the symbols mean i could work through it diagonal lemma seems relevant too ( there is controversy around this at https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Set_of_G%C3%B6del_Numbers_of_Arithmetic_Theorems_... )
there are a lot of symbols i suspect that if you special-case self-reference or contradictions with axioms as undefined that the diagonal lemma and tarski's proof of the undefinability of truth may no longer work out and i would expect the "real" reason for this to be assuming contradiction with semi-intuitive axioms but i don't know anything i barely understand all these logic symbols there are only a few. they are likely comprehensible.
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
there are a lot of symbols i suspect that if you special-case self-reference or contradictions with axioms as undefined that the diagonal lemma and tarski's proof of the undefinability of truth may no longer work out and i would expect the "real" reason for this to be assuming contradiction with semi-intuitive axioms but i don't know anything i barely understand all these logic symbols
there are only a few. they are likely comprehensible.
the proof of undefinability of truth relates to the truth of sentences that do not relate to the larger world so it conceptually aligns somewhat with the idea of things not associated with other values being undefined.
philosophy O_O
doing this vs playing chess this seems a little better (if we ignore spamming list) since similar to education behaviors and other useful things
symbol glossary: ↔ if and only if i.e. is equivalent to ¬ negation i.e. not ⌜⌝ godel number https://people.clas.ufl.edu/jal/courses/mhf3202/symbols/ →, –>: implies, if … , then … . https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1115066/meaning-of-symbols-vdash-an... ⊢ the relation of derivability in a theory, meaning there is a formal derivation of a theorem from the axioms of the theory i.e. is derivable ⊨ the relation of logical consequence, meaning that a sentence in the language of the theory is true in all models of the theory, i.e. in all interpretations satisfying the axioms .... this looks more accessible: https://qubd.github.io/files/TarskiUndefinability.pdf
A sentence of LA will be called true when it’s true in the structure N . Let’s see some examples of true sentences and false sentences of LA. ∀v1(v1S = v1 + 1) ∀v1(∃v2(v1 = 2 × v2) → ∃v3(v1 = 2Ev3)) translate: for all v1, v1++ == v1 + 1 (true) for all v1, if there exists a v2 such that v1 = 2 * v2, then there exists a v3 such that v1 = pow(2,v3) (false)
possibly whoopsy! possible whoopsy!
off to chess puzzles maybe :S
mind control boss, something about people not knowing things they aren't told
logic issue: where knowledge comes from <_<
oh it’s like 3 days old. showed as latest in thread
do u knows da muphinz man, da mufinss manh, da mophensh man do ya knews da moophing man, da muphinz man
do u know the muffin man yes? no?
zombie torturer shambles up to mind control boss zombie torturer: “mind control boss this is serious” mind control boss: “spit it out urchin” zombie torturer: “do you know the muffin man?”
mind control boss peers searchingly at zombie torturer he hand-designed the torturer mind control program he believes he knows this person’s mind inside and out like his own
zombie torturer shambles on
mind control boss puffs on his cigar mind control boss [thinking]: “‘do you know the muffin man’?” mind control boss looks out the window while he is thinking mind control boss [thinking]: “‘do you know the muffin man’ …”
mind control boss looks up the muffin man on his central surveillance computer
Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corporation Urgent Systemwide Survey Please Respond Immediately Do you know the muffin man who lives on Drury Lane? Answer honestly within five minutes or risk immediate termination.
[not everyone received survey so mcb collects the rest up and has them proceed in file for interviewing. first person asked “do you know the muffin man”, then second “and you. do you know the muffin man?” third person “do you inow the muffin man who lives on drury lane” “no sir/ma’am i do not” lie detector blips green
it’s a good scene you cou”d take it farther make a whole episode of it then call back later
boss is anxious because h7nting down unauthoriEd mind control, re muffin man meme in zombie torturer
muffin man meme stronger than strongest mind control but sir we don’t have muffin men anymore we buy mass-produced muffins
e are still muffin men left to. we have not replaced all the bakeries with robots yets. see mcb 8s in bus8ness of taking over small time businesses somoften gets in conflicts with unions and such and others wan t to protect these craftspeople muffin man is hot topic, steamy
muffin man might now about sabotage of independent bakers
need to isolate knowledge of such people existing manage the leak
so mind control boss: “so, nobody knows the muffin man, you better not, am i right?” most workers in unison: “right mind control boss! we don’t know the muffin man!” one worker [actually it’s zombie torturer, hardened immune to suffering]: “yes i do! i know the muffin man who lives on drury lane!”
[then an idea for a second episode arose but i’m having amnesia around it which makes some sense wasn’t the goal]
i’ve never heard of anyone by that name
i broke i might need an easy goal that moves toward better goals a little somethin* where i ohysically move errr
bugabba Draft saved at 8:09 pm (21 minutes ago)
hey we’re not aure how to do the sudden travel and other —
listen up man you’re lettin’ me take over your mai
“well aince you’re the muffin man things are a little sifferent” “different?” “there’s a freakin’ nursery rhyme about you, dude. kids are singing it acfoss the world”
maybe mcb is the muffin man
in what manner to kill mind control boss kill with public note, says like “we um really do very seriously need to talk, it’s not a political or military or public image or regulatory or secret code situation, it’s more like a core need of the world”
On 9/13/23, mailbombbin <mailbombbin@gmail.com> wrote:
in what manner to kill mind control boss
kill with public note, says like “we um really do very seriously need to talk, it’s not a political or military or public image or regulatory or secret code situation, it’s more like a core need of the world”
we don’t want mind control boss dead because he knows about things we forgot it hurts, it hurts infinitely! beyond hurting! but we don’t want him dead because he knows about things we forgot. this is why
--------------- mind control boss [to psychiatrist]: "I do not belong here. I really do mind control everyone on the planet, and handle foreign powers mind controlling me on a regular basis. I can manipulate reality with my mind, because I have a mind-reading implant that directs robots and nanite colonies." psychiatrist: "I am diagnosing you with a delusional disorder. Please take these antipsychotics." mind control boss: "nono, this is not right, you should be doing something about the people i sadistically murder, not --" psychiatrist: "Please take these antipsychotics."
--------------------- mind control boss is trying to whip grassroots activist into being quiet about their family members who died from mcb's operations, but something is wrong mind control boss: "you pathetic idiot, be horrifically whipped!" grassroots activist [tapping foot, in torture chamber]: " i am waiting this, when are you going to whip me" mind control boss
------------ once upon a time there was a low-level copy editor named bartleby -- i mean mind control boss. mind controls boss
mind control boss mind control boss mind control boss
i signed up for a human trafficking conference but am likely to miss it, but might not
once upon a time there was a very bright star unfortunately this bright star was not actually a star but was rather a halogen lamp placed in grassroots activist's torture chamber to prevent them from sleeping as well
[story of torture victim being forced to stare at bright lamp when] ---- i am currently in a hostel room, and am confused about the time of day, because people are sleeping and the windows are not bringing a lot of light in. it is mid-day and i should be checking out, but it looks like night-time, and this is confusing to me
i should change my clothes to daywear and check out. i'd like to take advantage of the shower first, but may have run out of time.
- — how to write a rational post about something of interest to you 1. briefly consider and very slightly begin planning doing this, then stop 2. observe how things change for you inside you in response to this 3. —
so, the issue around 3 is what so e describe as a quantum-based spacetime monster that teleports to everything that observes it and replaces them with itself, and others describe as “dissociation”.
idea: making cults around oppressed values to meet small goals wrt them like: “cult of understanding the mind” or “cult of computer hacking” the second one gets the monster, maybe “cult of mind control” somewhere near helping unsure worrisome that cult of computer hacking breaks. maybe make-cult solution doesn’t work.
i’m thinking it would work if it had actual hypnotic rituals etc. “cult of making fake cults”
participants (2)
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mailbombbin -
Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many