On 05/24/2018 12:43 PM, juan wrote:

But instead of predicting one can simply look at what's going on and see that the cypherpunk project is kinda fucked, bitcoin notwithstanding...

Hahaha! "In the early 70s while we were debating this (Rand and Rothbard) in the school dorm..."! No wonder it's FUCKED. He was debating the books on his mommy's bookshelf! There IS NO SUCH THING as "AnCap", AnarchoCapitalism, Whatever the fuck stupid moniker y' all come up with to describe Republicans scumbags Who Like To Party. 'So for this episode, let’s focus on this weird group of people who didn’t seem to get the memo that opposition to all forms of hierarchy and domination isn’t compatible with their private property schemes.'

*Clara:* So now for our next two episodes, we turn to two of the other areas in which folks sometimes get confused about who anarchists are and aren’t. Libertarians and so-called anarcho-capitalists increasingly use the term “anarchist” to describe their pro-capitalist views; meanwhile, critics of the left often lump anarchists together with socialists and communists as freedom-hating collectivists.

*Alanis:* But anarchists are really different from both of those groups. We’re distinct from libertarians because we reject capitalism and private property, and we’re distinct from many socialists and communists because we reject political authority and centralization.

*Clara:* So for this episode, let’s focus on this weird group of people who didn’t seem to get the memo that opposition to all forms of hierarchy and domination isn’t compatible with their private property schemes.

*Alanis:* Before we can get started talking about this, we have to clarify something right away: almost everywhere else in the world except for the United States, the word “libertarian” means “anarchist” - that is, against the state and capitalism. Describing someone as a libertarian communist or socialist distinguishes them from an authoritarian communist or socialist – that is, the difference between an anti-capitalist who believes in horizontal means towards horizontal ends versus one that believes in vanguard parties and seizing state power. (More on that in our next episode!)

*Clara:* But from the mid-twentieth century onwards, Americans who advocated for extreme laissez-faire capitalism started using the term libertarian to describe their beliefs… even though anti-capitalist anarchists had been using the term in many languages since at least the 1850s.

*Alanis:* Because many of our listeners in the US understand it in this newer sense, when we use the term libertarian in this episode, we’ll be talking about the pro-capitalist, neoliberal sorts. But let’s not forget that in central and South America, much of Europe, and elsewhere, capitalists have not succeeded in appropriating the term libertarian for their own devices.

*Clara:* That said, let’s see if we can sort out the term, the ideas, and the movement as they play out here in the US…

*Alanis:* …and what they do or don’t have in common with anarchism.

From CrimethInc Podcast #18: What Anarchism Isn’t, Pt 1: Libertarianism and Anarcho-Capitalism https://crimethinc.com/podcast/18/transcript