Re: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing list- we shall roast you in words, with glee!
Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on this list? Why are these silently accepted? Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above approach. Be careful of becoming the oppressor. Look around. Do the people around you look like you? Think like you? Come from the same background as you? This is a problem. The lack of diversity in this group is not a magical phenomenon without a root cause. There is a deeper problem. If (and how) this should change is up to this community. Sadly, the ideals of this community are often lost in the (typically incoherent) bigotry spewing from the trolls. 4.12.4. "Crypto Anarchy sounds too wild for me." - I accept that many people will find the implications of crypto anarchy (which follows in turn from the existence of strong cryptography, via the Crypto Anarchy Principle) to be more than they can accept. - This is OK (not that you need my OK!). The house of Cypherpunks has many rooms. All are welcome. I hope.
There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have
learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of technology discussed on this mailing list.
Wow. How fucking elitist can you be? Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com
On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:25:20 +0000 "" <shakeitoff@ghostmail.com> wrote:
Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing list- we shall roast you in words, with glee!
Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on this list? Why are these silently accepted?
Whatever bigotry and chauvinism there is, you don't seem to have spoken against it too much (if at all). So, you are asking that question to yourself?
Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above approach.
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1994/09/msg00147.html https://cryptome.org/jya/fuckit.htm
On 1/29/16, shakeitoff@ghostmail.com <shakeitoff@ghostmail.com> wrote:
Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing list- we shall roast you in words, with glee!
Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on this list? Why are these silently accepted?
Who's "job" is that? Are you defining this job for someone other than yourself?
Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above approach.
These two sentences are approaching incoherent. Would you like to try again? It is probably not constructive for me to respond to incoherence - there is perhaps some truth or pain or seeking which has not been expressed clearly, which I would hope you feel confident about expressing, or re- attempting to express - such is in our collective interests.
Be careful of becoming the oppressor.
Agreed.
Look around. Do the people around you look like you? Think like you? Come from the same background as you?
This is a problem.
So say you. If you wish an intelligent discourse, please put more effort into explaining this "problem" you assert, describing why you think there is a problem, etc in a way which others might be able to agree with you - asserting that something is a problem, in and of itself, says close to nothing, and is therefore not useful. You might want others to agree with you that there is a problem, here in this tiny (!!) corner of the world called the cypherpunks mailing list. You might even be able to cite coherent facts demonstrating your position - none of this means I or any other individual has to agree with you, though some may. Making you assertion is presently an island waiting for supporters - nothing more than a political position in search of part members. This is not the place for such superficiality. I personally seek deeper conversation.
The lack of diversity in this group is not a magical phenomenon without a root cause.
Your assertions leave me raising my eyebrows.
There is a deeper problem.
And again.
If (and how) this should change is up to this community.
Possible actions based on unsubstantiated presumptions. This -is- objectionable to me. You want me to buy in to your political cause? You might consider presenting a more substantial position, perhaps one based in fact.
Sadly, the ideals of this community are often lost in the (typically incoherent) bigotry spewing from the trolls.
This is flame bait. Persistent flame baiting is regarded as trolling.
4.12.4. "Crypto Anarchy sounds too wild for me." - I accept that many people will find the implications of crypto anarchy (which follows in turn from the existence of strong cryptography, via the Crypto Anarchy Principle) to be more than they can accept.
- This is OK (not that you need my OK!). The house of Cypherpunks has many rooms.
All are welcome. I hope.
We share the same hope. For me it is a certainty - I need no hope about "all being welcome", since it is already a fact. Your assertions to the contrary notwithstanding...
There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of technology discussed on this mailing list.
Wow. How fucking elitist can you be?
Is it your position that humans in general have no right to create communication spaces, semi public as this one is, that fit their desires? Do you assert that you would like a particular communication space to exist, which does not currently exist, but which is somehow similar to cypherpunks mailing list, but perhaps a little different? If so, have you tried to create such a space? Or are you simply begrudging this space that has been created not by you, and not specifically for you (although you are welcome), for some reasons (perhaps it does not quite meet your expectations?, perhaps you have taken certain words posted as adversarial to your own actual intentions to participate?)? With your assertion of problems existing in this particular space, without any substantiation of fact, there is not much of a conversation besides "I want more of something undefined and other should provide it to me" is there? Before I turn my own vehemence into another strawman, perhaps reconsider your presentation/ wording? Creating spaces in this world that -you- want, is up to you. You may of course try to enroll others into you intentions, but at the moment, you might like to work on refining that last bit... Good luck, Zenaan
On 1/30/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
... Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on this list? Why are these silently accepted?
Who's "job" is that? Are you defining this job for someone other than yourself?
the decentralized node must ascertain for itself, the caliber of a communique or code repo. thus let bigoted chauvinists be so deftly demoted, in a robust manner at each end, immune to secondary interference.
Be careful of becoming the oppressor.
Agreed.
and what is convention, if not tyranny of the past? ;) best regards,
On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 5:35 AM <shakeitoff@ghostmail.com> wrote:
Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing list- we shall roast you in words, with glee!
Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on this list? Why are these silently accepted?
I think the answer is that they're difficult subjects to address. People generally prefer to address issues they think they understand. Not to excuse it; it's something everyone needs to work on, but it's going to take some time. There's also the self-selection effect where most of those who "roast you in words, with glee" differ from trolls only that they seek out some form of legitimacy for their trolling. It seems to me that a far better way to deal with "anti-social communication" would be to ignore it and encourage others to do so if it's trolling, or to privately reach out to the person to try to help them understand why their method of communication is counterproductive, if it seems like they can be gotten through to.
Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above approach.
To be fair, none of us is going to kidnap you and throw you in a cage, nor shoot you, nor blow you up with a nuclear weapon. There are degrees of bully. Though I think it would be more appropriate to describe government as "a home for kidnappers, murderers, and thieves masquerading as a collective defense."
Be careful of becoming the oppressor.
Indeed.
Look around. Do the people around you look like you? Think like you? Come from the same background as you?
This is a problem. The lack of diversity in this group is not a magical phenomenon without a root cause.
Agreed.
There is a deeper problem. If (and how) this should change is up to this community.
Sadly, the ideals of this community are often lost in the (typically incoherent) bigotry spewing from the trolls.
Yep. Trolling is a problem in any public community. The best way to make trolls go away if there is no active moderation is to ignore them, but that requires encouraging those who respond to them to avoid doing so in the future. IOW, you need leadership regardless of whether you have moderation for a community to thrive. Moreso, in the absense of moderation.
4.12.4. "Crypto Anarchy sounds too wild for me."
- I accept that many people will find the implications of crypto anarchy (which follows in turn from the existence of strong cryptography, via the Crypto Anarchy Principle) to be more than they can accept.
- This is OK (not that you need my OK!). The house of Cypherpunks has many rooms.
All are welcome. I hope.
In crypto-anarchy generally, yes. In this particular community, well, like in any community it's going to take hard work.
There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have
learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of technology discussed on this mailing list.
Wow. How fucking elitist can you be?
Indeed. I thought this was a crypto-anarchist community, not a space for social inepts to come where they don't have to take responsibility for their complete lack of empathy or even basic consideration for others. But that's probably an unrealistic expectation given the general state of nerd-dom right now.
Sean Lynch wrote:
The best way to make trolls go away if there is no active moderation is to ignore them, but that requires encouraging those who respond to them to avoid doing so in the future. IOW, you need leadership regardless of whether you have moderation for a community to thrive. Moreso, in the absense of moderation.
If there's no leadership ignoring trolls to make them go away still works... It just takes longer than moderating them away because they attract other trolls. But eventually it all dies down. CB radio is a classic example of a troll infested public communication environment where ignoring trolls is really the only option. -- RR "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"
On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Rayzer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
CB radio is a classic example of a troll infested public communication environment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5HkTjT0RNc Can't wait to get back on the road again... just a little bit more than the law will allow.
participants (7)
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coderman -
grarpamp -
juan -
Rayzer -
Sean Lynch -
shakeitoff＠ghostmail.com -
Zenaan Harkness