Hey folks, With the NSA Patriot Act/FBI planes in the news, I recalled an IRL example from 2004 of Minneapolis FBI anti-terrorism division/department monitoring my cell, email and MSN Messenger communications. https://storify.com/flyingmonkeyair/in-which-the-fbi-surveilled-me-while-buy... I mention this because so far all the metadata collection info ruckus has focused on the NSA. There's been so much data released as a result of Snowden that I've lost track. Does anyone recall anything showing the FBI have access to the NSA's data, or does the FBI have it's own interception going on? Thanks for any light shed on this. Cheers, Nigel Parry nigelparry.com nigelparry.net
The NSA provides data to the FBI and DEA, among others. Although it was known previously, this is part of what Snowden released with corroborating documentation. That it hasn't gotten more attention, by Greenwald, Snowden, et al, is one of the major credible complaints since the releases began in June 2013. The FBI does do its own surveillance and can easily tap telecoms with programs such as DCSNet and Red Hook, but they don't have the resources (as far I know) to do the blanket surveillance that NSA (and GCHQ, CSE, etc) does. NSA collects nearly all internet traffic in the USA with its intercept rooms at the network control centers that big telecoms have on the internet backbone. They gather almost everything, including content, not just metadata. The announced capacity of the Bluffton, Utah data center is several orders of magnitude more than is needed to store metadata alone. So, yes, some NSA data is shared with the FBI (and others) but the details matter. There is FBI surveillance but NSA does the blanket surveillance. With the FBI, as far as I know, you have to be targeted (except for the IMSI catcher type stuff, which are indiscriminate but not an nationwide/international dragnet). The AP story about the FBI surveillance planes is quite interesting, although fits with recent info and long term trends. On 02-Jun-15 18:01, yotm wrote:
Hey folks,
With the NSA Patriot Act/FBI planes in the news, I recalled an IRL example from 2004 of Minneapolis FBI anti-terrorism division/department monitoring my cell, email and MSN Messenger communications.
https://storify.com/flyingmonkeyair/in-which-the-fbi-surveilled-me-while-buy...
I mention this because so far all the metadata collection info ruckus has focused on the NSA.
There's been so much data released as a result of Snowden that I've lost track. Does anyone recall anything showing the FBI have access to the NSA's data, or does the FBI have it's own interception going on?
Thanks for any light shed on this.
Cheers,
Nigel Parry nigelparry.com nigelparry.net
On 06/02/2015 05:52 PM, M373 wrote:
The NSA provides data to the FBI
Actually it's the OTHER way around: "Presidential Executive Order 12333 - 1.13 allows the FBI to provide the NSA with “technical assistance” in the United States… ie. to collect metadata about American citizens by collaborating with “foreign intelligence and law enforcement services”. In other words, "President Obama could end mass domestic surveillance with one stroke of his pen." More, with links: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/72893522022
nd DEA, among others. Although it was known previously, this is part of what Snowden released with corroborating documentation. That it hasn't gotten more attention, by Greenwald, Snowden, et al, is one of the major credible complaints since the releases began in June 2013. The FBI does do its own surveillance and can easily tap telecoms with programs such as DCSNet and Red Hook, but they don't have the resources (as far I know) to do the blanket surveillance that NSA (and GCHQ, CSE, etc) does. NSA collects nearly all internet traffic in the USA with its intercept rooms at the network control centers that big telecoms have on the internet backbone. They gather almost everything, including content, not just metadata. The announced capacity of the Bluffton, Utah data center is several orders of magnitude more than is needed to store metadata alone.
So, yes, some NSA data is shared with the FBI (and others) but the details matter. There is FBI surveillance but NSA does the blanket surveillance. With the FBI, as far as I know, you have to be targeted (except for the IMSI catcher type stuff, which are indiscriminate but not an nationwide/international dragnet). The AP story about the FBI surveillance planes is quite interesting, although fits with recent info and long term trends.
On 02-Jun-15 18:01, yotm wrote:
Hey folks,
With the NSA Patriot Act/FBI planes in the news, I recalled an IRL example from 2004 of Minneapolis FBI anti-terrorism division/department monitoring my cell, email and MSN Messenger communications.
https://storify.com/flyingmonkeyair/in-which-the-fbi-surveilled-me-while-buy...
I mention this because so far all the metadata collection info ruckus has focused on the NSA.
There's been so much data released as a result of Snowden that I've lost track. Does anyone recall anything showing the FBI have access to the NSA's data, or does the FBI have it's own interception going on?
Thanks for any light shed on this.
Cheers,
Nigel Parry nigelparry.com nigelparry.net
On 6/2/15, M373 <M373@riseup.net> wrote:
The NSA provides data to the FBI and DEA, among others... ... The FBI does do its own surveillance and can easily tap telecoms with programs such as DCSNet and Red Hook, but they don't have the resources (as far I know) to do the blanket surveillance that NSA (and GCHQ, CSE, etc) does.
FBI is NSA's front man for domestic programs. see DITU and how PRISM, while an NSA program, is coordinated through FBI. FBI does provide blanket surveillance, although they must launder information through parallel construction before the surveillance becomes legally actionable.
NSA collects nearly all internet traffic in the USA with its intercept rooms at the network control centers that big telecoms have on the internet backbone. They gather almost everything, including content, not just metadata. The announced capacity of the Bluffton, Utah data center is several orders of magnitude more than is needed to store metadata alone.
to be clear, they inspect nearly everything in-line with "Deep Packet Inspection" and "semantic analysis" and similar techniques, e.g. Narus Insight, at the edges rather than centrally. there is an order of magnitude less capacity for NSANet uplink than what is monitored through taps. they could not pull a mirror of all traffic if they wanted to! then, the selected stuff is collected and stored forever*. the Utah massive data repository is not full take buffer, but rather persistence for selected or collected information. (full take on backbones a technical challenge, and not everywhere.)
... With the FBI, as far as I know, you have to be targeted (except for the IMSI catcher type stuff, which are indiscriminate but not an nationwide/international dragnet). The AP story about the FBI surveillance planes is quite interesting, although fits with recent info and long term trends.
as discussed elsewhere, you can get "selected" for various activities, which is auto-targeting, in a sense... best regards, * for some definition of "forever".
...or should I say the intel collected goes both ways but it seems the NSA, which I don't believe actually HAS direct authorization to spy on US citizens within the continental US gets it's intel from the FBI's DITU. Data Intercept Technology Unit. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/67983541953 Rummage around my DITU tags and you'll find one of the FBI people assigned this task used to be a discount furniture salesman. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/search/DITU On 06/02/2015 05:52 PM, M373 wrote:
The NSA provides data to the FBI and DEA, among others. Although it was known previously, this is part of what Snowden released with corroborating documentation. That it hasn't gotten more attention, by Greenwald, Snowden, et al, is one of the major credible complaints since the releases began in June 2013. The FBI does do its own surveillance and can easily tap telecoms with programs such as DCSNet and Red Hook, but they don't have the resources (as far I know) to do the blanket surveillance that NSA (and GCHQ, CSE, etc) does. NSA collects nearly all internet traffic in the USA with its intercept rooms at the network control centers that big telecoms have on the internet backbone. They gather almost everything, including content, not just metadata. The announced capacity of the Bluffton, Utah data center is several orders of magnitude more than is needed to store metadata alone.
So, yes, some NSA data is shared with the FBI (and others) but the details matter. There is FBI surveillance but NSA does the blanket surveillance. With the FBI, as far as I know, you have to be targeted (except for the IMSI catcher type stuff, which are indiscriminate but not an nationwide/international dragnet). The AP story about the FBI surveillance planes is quite interesting, although fits with recent info and long term trends.
On 02-Jun-15 18:01, yotm wrote:
Hey folks,
With the NSA Patriot Act/FBI planes in the news, I recalled an IRL example from 2004 of Minneapolis FBI anti-terrorism division/department monitoring my cell, email and MSN Messenger communications.
https://storify.com/flyingmonkeyair/in-which-the-fbi-surveilled-me-while-buy...
I mention this because so far all the metadata collection info ruckus has focused on the NSA.
There's been so much data released as a result of Snowden that I've lost track. Does anyone recall anything showing the FBI have access to the NSA's data, or does the FBI have it's own interception going on?
Thanks for any light shed on this.
Cheers,
Nigel Parry nigelparry.com nigelparry.net
participants (4)
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coderman -
M373 -
Razer -
yotm