On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Brian wrote:

If you use a smart phone, there is probably not much difference in ability to NSA location track and using uber.

Any cellphone, not just smartphones.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:54 PM, juan wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:40:25 -0700 Jason McVetta wrote:

...

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Brian wrote:

...

If you use a smart phone, there is probably not much difference in ability to NSA location track and using uber.

Any cellphone, not just smartphones.

That may be so, but I doubt the gov't can get as much track information from all over the world as they get directly from the 'centralized' uber servers.

Anyway, the fact that uber is yet another cover for US spying is not the only reason why uber is a piece of shit. I mentioned other reasons. In some ways uber is even more hostile to a free market than the 'official' state-licenced(like uber) taxi mafia.

Anyone tried Arcade City yet? I have it installed, but the only time I've needed a ride since I heard of it, I had to catch a flight and wasn't willing to risk using a new service in an unfamiliar city.

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:50:43 -0400 grarpamp wrote:

On 3/30/16, juan wrote:

...

In some ways uber is even more hostile to a free market than the 'official' state-licenced(like uber) taxi mafia.

Being "better" at something is easy when the incumbent player and their strategies are suboptimum.

Not only that. Uber is better at centralization and corporatism - hardly a virtue.

The current players are angling for lockout, not freedom.

Well, of course. I never meant that the current state-licensed mafias are free-market heroes.

The day you can roll up in your highly peer reviewed brokeass smoked out flower power Vanagon and blaze your way to the park from the airport with five execs in the back, based on a call from an anonymous overlay network decentral p2p rideshare app complete with aforesaid user reviews... that's freedom... start coding.

I haven't looked at the current 'state of the art' in decentralized markets lately, but some stuff has already been coded, no? Problem is, it's not just a matter of coding... Also, anonimity and reputation-based systems don't mix well..

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:13:45 -0400 grarpamp wrote:

On 4/3/16, juan wrote:

...

I haven't looked at the current 'state of the art' in decentralized markets lately, but some stuff has already been coded, no? Problem is, it's not just a matter of coding...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet_market#Market_types

openbazaar market + ethereum payments + tor/i2p = current state of implemented art?

I guess? On the other hand, remailers(to use a classic cpunk term) can't be trusted too much (understatement), especially tor.

For things to take off... a product / service agnostic market, anonymous payments, p2p over anonymous overlay nets... all decentralized, with reputation. All are needed components for all sorts of free and open commerce to flourish.

commerce of physical goods and services has this little problem known as delivery...

...

Also, anonimity and reputation-based systems don't mix well..

They mix perfectly.

Not really. You get the best anonimity when everybody uses the same null 'key' and the same nickname, like, I don't know, "anonymous coward". Of course, in that case it's impossible to attach any reputation to anybody... Sure, it may be possible to keep your online reputation not too linked to your physical self but doing so is not trivial.

Anonymity goes with compartmentalization and selective exposure of data. You are in control. If you decline to expose some nonobservable element that others find valuable to know, that's your choice, and theirs to rate accordingly. Bliss.

In such a reputation enabled digital market, your Real-ID and whether you ate pancakes or steak for breakfast is irrelavent to getting me from A to B.

Well, if you are specifically talking about car drivers (and passengers) it's pretty obvious that there can be no anonimity. Decentralized protocols are still desirable for a number of reasons, but they won't solve the underlying political problem : the existence of a group of psychos who call themselves 'the government'.

Others might prefer to rate you on the uparmored preventative safety shell you built into your car vs. seeing money wasted on your gov-corp mandated insurance docs. Length of service. Etc... Though [blind] assertions by gov-corp may have value in the market, the higher reputation market incorporates and weighs any such value in its "price discovery" process in various ranking categories.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:04:55 -0700 Rayzer wrote:

juan wrote:

...

so I took a look at 'uber argentina' - as usual the amount of self parody is almost unreal...

1) nsa-uber steals 25% of the driver's earnings.

2) They have all sorts of draconian requirements, including new cars, age requirements, and all kinds of ID shit from the government nazis. Razer would love it.

Why do you say that?

Because I think the so-called 'sharing economy' is a feudal fascist economy?

No, I was only referring to the fact that you are not completely hostile to IDs, even gov't issued IDs. I do agree that uber is a scam. I would describe it as the next step in the development of 'western' corporate cancer. I don't know why the masters of marketig would call something like uber 'sharing economy'. But then again by definition it's just meaningless marketing jargon.

That make me a Nazi?

Because Uber's financial backers include scum like Goldman Sachs who I wouldn't care to enrich?

That makes me a Nazi?

the 'nazi' adjective was attached to ID requirements from uber, which rely on the ID systems of different police states across the world. (and I was commenting about the 'local'(to me) case)

Because they spy on you, the consumer of their services, and don't seem to do as well 'spying' on their contractors about thinks like carrying guns, criminal records,

Well, as a matter of fact, one of the requirements for drivers is to present their STATE ISSUED 'criminal record'...

and so much more that someone getting in a car with a complete stranger might want to know?

A formal complaint has been filed against Uber, the car ride company, by the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-profit advocacy group. The NGO says Uber plans to use their smart phone app to access user’s locations at all times, and to send advertisements to user’s contact lists.

Uber, a San Francisco-based company, has become worth over $40 billion in the five years since it launched its app that allows anyone to pay for rides from nearby drivers in 300 cities in 57 countries. Along the way, it has also gained a bad reputation for exploiting its employees and even some customers.

Last September, users were horrified to discover that Uber was not only tracking them but boasting about this ability at private parties. The tracking system that the company used to follow the physical location of individuals was dubbed the “God View” by executives…

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=16035 https://epic.org/privacy/internet/ftc/uber/Complaint.pdf

That's it! I must be a Nazi because I don't like companies that spy on people full-time for profit.

To clarify again : the part about uber I was teasing you with was their ID requirements...They obviously require a government issued driver's license...

I said I want people who drive smog-belching one or two ton potential homicide machines to have a certification in homicide avoidance.

LMFAO - you must be from Alaska - last tank I saw rolling down the road in Cali few years back = no license. Dude was angry! -----Original Message----- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-bounces@cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Rayzer Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:42 PM To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org Subject: Re: nsa taxis juan wrote:

No, I was only referring to the fact that you are not completely hostile to IDs, even gov't issued IDs

You have selective amnesia . I said I want people who drive smog-belching one or two ton potential homicide machines to have a certification in homicide avoidance. It's called a "Drivers License" and albeit it doesn't preclude homicide on the part of the certified it helps provide justification-for-the-crushed that the person who did it knew how not to do so. -- RR "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"