Further, direct from the Kremlin: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/52537 Statement in response to the report by the World Anti-Doping Agency July 18, 2016 President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Recent events and the tense atmosphere that has formed around international sport and the Olympic movement involuntarily recall the situation in the early 1980s. Back then, many Western countries, citing the deployment of Soviet troops in Afghanistan, boycotted the Moscow Olympics. Four years later, the Soviet Union retaliated by boycotting the Los Angeles Olympics, using the pretext of an allegedly insufficient level of security for the Soviet team. The result was that many Soviet and American athletes and athletes from other countries were caught up in this campaign of reciprocal boycotts and lost the chance to add their names to world sporting history. Their years of long and hard effort and training were in vain. In short, people had their dreams broken and became hostages of political confrontation. The Olympic movement found itself in a serious crisis and faced divisions within. Later, some of the political figures of that era on both sides admitted that this had been a mistake. Today, we see a dangerous return to this policy of letting politics interfere with sport. Yes, this intervention takes different forms today, but the essence remains the same; to make sport an instrument for geopolitical pressure and use it to form a negative image of countries and peoples. The Olympic movement, which is a tremendous force for uniting humanity, once again could find itself on the brink of division. Today, so-called ‘doping scandals’ are the method used, attempts to apply sanctions for detected cases of doping to all athletes, including those who are ‘clean’, supposedly to protect their interests. But unlike in the 1980s, athletes undergo very strict and comprehensive anti-doping tests during competition and during the entire training process. Over the last 6 months, all Russian athletes have undergone anti-doping tests on WADA’s recommendations, with the tests overseen by the UK Anti-Doping Agency and other anti-doping laboratories abroad. The accusations against Russia’s athletes are based on information given by one single person, an individual with a notorious reputation. Criminal charges were opened against him in 2012 for violating anti-doping laws, but there was not enough evidence against him at that moment and the case was dropped. On June 17 this year, following his allegations of involvement in using banned substances and information from Russian athletes concerning extortion, a criminal case was reopened against him in connection with the new circumstances that had come to light. One of his close relatives, who used to work under his direction, has already been convicted in Russia for illegal trade in anabolic steroids. The question arises as to how much trust we can place in arguments based solely on the allegations of people of this kind, and how much weight can such allegations have. The US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) and several anti-doping agencies in other countries, without waiting for the official publication of the World Anti-Doping Agency’s commission, have hastened to demand that the entire Russian team be banned from taking part in the Rio de Janeiro Olympics. What is behind this haste? Is it an attempt to create the needed media atmosphere and apply pressure? We have the impression that the USADA experts had access to what is an unpublished report at the very least, and have set its tone and even its content themselves. If this is the case, one country’s national organisation is again trying to dictate its will to the entire world sports community. The officials named in the commission's report as directly involved will be temporarily removed from their posts until a full investigation is complete. But to be able to make a final decision on these officials’ responsibility, we ask the WADA commission to provide fuller and more objective fact-based information so that Russia’s law enforcement and investigative agencies can use it in their investigation. We can guarantee that their work will be seen through to its conclusion and that all subsequent measures will be taken in full to prevent violation of Russian law and ensure that our country fulfils its international obligations. We have always taken the clear position that there is no place for doping in sport. It endangers athletes’ health and lives and discredits fair sporting competition. We are consistent in eliminating this scourge, improve our national laws in this area, and cooperate openly with the relevant international organisations and the International Olympic Committee. We are unfailing in meeting our obligations. Russia is well aware of the Olympic movement’s immense significance and constructive force, and shares in full the Olympic movement’s values of mutual respect, solidarity, fairness, and the spirit of friendship and cooperation. This is the only way to preserve the Olympic family’s unity and ensure international sport’s development in the interest of bringing peoples and cultures closer together. Russia is open to cooperation on achieving these noble goals.

On Jul 19, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer.

Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the games, unless they can prove their innocence.

Yes doping is a huge fucking problem in every country that can afford it. However, the US of Ass, as tyrannical a bunch of fucks as they are, have not had a whistle blower like Roschenkov come forward and make broad claims that there is US govmt sponsored doping program, with the CIA acting as facilitators for clean blood / urine / drugs... as your surely must know, this has happened for Russia. I would swear it seems like you must be getting paid by the FSB for much of this pro-Russian Rah-rah-Putin-is-our-man shit you spout Zen, if I didn't know better ;) (which I don't) Or maybe it's "ideological" John

of fairness and due process and would personally stand vehemently against that, no matter the country targetted, ON PRINCIPLE!

"and --I-- would stand vehemently against that"

On July 20, 2016 12:07:50 PM EDT, Spencer <spencerone@openmailbox.org> wrote:

Hi,

...

John Newman: Yes doping is a huge fucking problem

Yeah, we wouldn't want people healing faster or getting stronger.

They should be made to eat gluten free and vegan before they compete, too, so they are extra weak and can give others a chance.

Yeah that's exactly what's meant by the anti doping regs. Give me a fucking break. Who gives a shit about the Olympics anyway. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On July 20, 2016 11:11:45 PM EDT, Spencer <spencerone@openmailbox.org> wrote:

Hi,

...

John: Yeah that's exactly what's meant

Control is the intention; fairness is the costume.

Wordlife, Spencer

Umm... Insight was the intent; asinine was the reality. You a big Lance Armstrong fan? Barry Bonds? This seems like a remarkably stupid thing to continue discussing. Homeslice, John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 4:09 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer.

Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the games, unless they can prove their innocence.

Oh, and just to teach a lesson, those atheletes that have never been involved in doping, if and only if they can prove they never doped their bodies, well they can participate in the upcoming Olympics, but they are not allowed to represent North America, and if the get a gold medal, the American national anthem will NOT be played - since Russia is hosting the Olympics, the Russian national anthem will be played instead.

That is definitely fair and appropriate to the North American athletes who have always done the right thing - a little bit of healthy national and personal punishment before any trial and before any conviction.

Yep, that's how a democratic world should definitely work. Just the way I thought of it too there Sean.

I am pretty sure I understand your position, and I'm sympathetic to it, but as an unpatriotic (in the sense that I do not support the government and I feel physically ill when I see people waving flags) American, I'm afraid that swapping America for Russia helps me see it better. I think this points out a fundamental flaw in the Olympics, and in fact in the entire international system: Individuals do not exist as entities in the international system. There is absolutely nothing democratic about the Olympics. The games exist to glorify states over individuals. The Western media do highlight superstars, but for the most part only American athletes get highlighted in the US. I gave up on the Olympics years ago. It is a fundamentally corrupt and hypocritical institution. And as you can see, it's being used as a tool of the West to try to punish Russia. So I totally agree with you, that's not the way a democratic world should work. But I'd add that the Olympics are not the way a democratic world should work. In a democratic system, states exist to serve the people. They should be at the bottom, not at the top. Not!

Western schooled persons (no point calling them humans) have lost touch with empathy, justice, don't even comprehend the rule of law and checks and balances, innocence until proven guilty and all that democratic "rubbish".

I agree, though I think most people have always just followed the herd. Most people have always thought "rule of law" has meant "order", and that a powerful government unconstrained itself by law, as long as it was tying to do "the right thing" was the way to maintain "rule of law." Never mind that precisely the opposite is true. Which means the line has been being held by... what, exactly? Inertia, probably. The West has been essentially coasting on the inertia of WWII and then on the Cold War, which kept lots of people employed in a system that is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass destruction. The old corporate/crony capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good for is war. The "war on terror" is the wrong kind of war to keep it going, because high tech weapons are for the most part useless. Terrorism requires political, policy, *human* solutions. But the system is not evolved to put the kind of people in power who are capable of creating those kinds of solutions. Ironically, as undemocratic as it was, the system that existed in Europe prior to WWI was probably better suited to small scale conflicts than our current system. The French Revolution introduced the concept of "total war" to Europe, and the old system was not adapted to that. Now "total war" would likely destroy us all, but we're also pretty shitty at small scale wars. As you've said before, we need to have a multipolar system again. Such a system would reward diplomacy over saber-rattling. Doesn't matter so much if there's still a lot of tension, as long as it doesn't escalate to war. As long as individuals don't get too caught up in the tension, because the only reason to have states in the first place is to let individuals conduct their lives in relative stability and peace.

2016-07-20 19:47 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org>:

a system is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass destruction.

The capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good for is war.

Brilliant!

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:12:29PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote:

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:21 AM Александр <afalex169@gmail.com> wrote:

...

2016-07-20 19:47 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org>:

...

a system is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass destruction.

The capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good for is war.

Brilliant!

There was a time when your edits would have bothered me, because what I thought of as "capitalism" was just people freely exchanging with one another. But that was just a libertarian attempt to coopt a term that was originally meant pejoratively. I do believe in free exchange (though "free" is obviously open to interpretation) and some form of private property (again, open to interpretation). What I don't believe in is economies enslaved to the state for the purpose of powering the war machine.

Oh, I believe in them - they are very real and dangerous and need to be dismantled. I assume that's what you meant though :) BTW, <Russian fan boy hat again> USSR, as well as Russia, has proposed and wanted, a few times, to get going on reducing the nuclear missile stockpiles, at least once even proposing to reduce them to zero. It was always North America (BMIC I assume) that would not go there...

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 05:05:51AM -0700, Ted Smith wrote:

Quality cypherpunks content as always, Zenaan. If only they had encrypted the doping!

So Ted, what do you say is "the rule of law" or the "principles of justice" in an anarchist context? Or is there no room for the international Olympic games in a global anarchist society world?

Another update: Rio 2016: Russia's first Gold http://www.pravdareport.com/news/society/07-08-2016/135245-russia_gold-0/ " Non-Russians can be found guilty of doping and compete at the Olympic Games while Russian athletes who have never taken any illegal substances are banned arbitrarily under a blanket ban excluding them from competing. "