On 4/18/19 12:11 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 4/17/19 22:09, Steve Kinney wrote:

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Just got locked out of The Facebook for the second time in two weeks, this time thanks to a MegaChurch Xtian bitch I happen to know IRL, who recognized herself "all to clearly" in this post and falsely reported it as a TOS violation:

It could be the swastikas on the comic book cover, along with the repeated use of the term "Nazi", were considered "hate speech". I know is a bit of a stretch, and I too disagree with the decision, but I'm just saying that is how they think.

I would discount the likelihood of a human decision, given that the FU notice from Facebook arrived three minutes (maybe less) after I pushed the 'send' button. No time for a complaint to come up through a queue for human attention - but about right for a "certain person" camping on The Facebook to see my post, fly into a towering rage, and push a few well worn buttons. :D I do plan to create a few "TOS violating" sock puppet accounts, and use one to test my ability to censor other users' content on demand. :o)

On April 17, 2019 9:11:50 PM PDT, "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote:

On 4/17/19 22:09, Steve Kinney wrote:

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Just got locked out of The Facebook for the second time in two weeks, this time thanks to a MegaChurch Xtian bitch I happen to know IRL, who recognized herself "all to clearly" in this post and falsely reported it as a TOS violation:

It could be the swastikas on the comic book cover, along with the repeated use of the term "Nazi", were considered "hate speech". I know is a bit of a stretch, and I too disagree with the decision, but I'm just saying that is how they think.

A few months back I was banned by their AI for a week, for sharing a "Memory" from a few years ago their own Memories AI suggested I re-post where I had used the word 'faggot' like a drag queen in a cat fight might use it. I whined at them and got no reply until a day or two after the ban was over saying, in so many words... "Oops! Technical Glitch" They're gonna let this shit drive CARS! I've been suspended 2x since then for other stupid things, and my twitter account ... 100k tweets, 10 years old, was permanently suspended a couple of months ago for saying, exactly, to a some white supremacist scumbag: "I Heart #WhiteGenocide Fuck off and die.", to illustrate how badly I wanted him to stop @-ing me, Eventually all corporate social media sites will look just like MySpace. Remember MySpace? Still there. No one uses it.. Rr Sent from my Androgyne dee-vice with K-9 Mail

On 4/19/19 1:35 AM, Punk wrote:

Well, having a facebook account may be rather a matter of self-hatred =P

As long as I don't get prosecuted for self abuse it's all good.

The facebook is like democracy. If it could serve any good purpose, it would be ilegal.

"It's a piss poor pitiful anarchist who's too stinkin' good to use the State's resources against the interests of the State." - Me I got a Facebook account for maybe seven or eight years ago. Since then I have used it to find and hook up with local activist orgs; get feedback on propaganda materials (handbills, flyers, etc.) in production and distribute the finished products to people who used them IRL; do volunteer intelligence work for activist orgs; picked up a few paying gigs; and I managed to seriously blow about a dozen minds that I know of. On the whole, The Facebook has served /my/ purposes adequately; the question of whether that's "good" depends who you ask. :o)

inform and manipulate 12 million people

There is a time cost profit tradeoff using those BBS, and you're dealing with mass of ignorant, thus can only convert a few, that's certainly valuable. Just don't forget to deploy your own propaganda bots NLP "talking" to the masses and linking them out to better resources. Adversaries do it because it's practically free. So should you.

Using the tools of the State against the State is the only way to make progress. The disconnected utopia was tried in the 60s and in the end they couldn't get away from the same things the State was addressing: crime within their ranks and the need to punish, the sick and elderly, free-riders of the commune who weren't pulling their fair share of work, etc. Marcos On 4/20/19, Steve Kinney wrote:

On 4/20/19 3:01 PM, Punk wrote:

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I got a Facebook account for maybe seven or eight years ago. Since then I have used it to find and hook up with local activist orgs; get feedback on propaganda materials (handbills, flyers, etc.) in production and distribute the finished products to people who used them IRL; do volunteer intelligence work for activist orgs; picked up a few paying gigs; and I managed to seriously blow about a dozen minds that I know of. On the whole, The Facebook has served /my/ purposes adequately; the question of whether that's "good" depends who you ask.

I too had an account in a previous life and used it to do some of the things you mention. But as time went on the costs of using an NSA weapon designed to attack us outweighted any perceived benefit.

For instance, it should be kinda self-evident that what you see inside facebook and which people you get to 'meet' is (heavily) manipulated.

No question: The Facebook presents as a 'computer dating service' of sorts, profiling users' interests and personalities and pulling users into echo chambers populated by "their own kind." To a lesser extent The Facebook also exposes users to "opposite" personalities and messages, to encourage conflict and polarization - because that drives user engagement and, in the long run, promotes our rulers' "divide the conquered" agenda.

The Facebook primarily works to find users' existing biases and magnify them; their business model includes "changing minds" with regard to consumer purchasing preferences and frequency. In the sphere of political ideology, The Facebook spots, classifies and reinforces the users' already established patterns, enhancing their predictable responses to targeted political propaganda.

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Then you have rampant censorship at the hands of the asshole users themselves. So the vast majority of groups are heavily censored and just echo chambers.

Yup. However, those echo chambers do have their potential uses: One must always preach to the choir, else how will they get on the same page and work together effectively at show time?

As an example, The Facebook has enabled me to distribute hundreds of copies of this package of documents to receptive readers:

http://web.archive.org/web/20190110192354/http://pilobilus.net/strategic_con...

I think that alone makes screwing around with The Facebook a net win.

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Then you're running tons of javascript malware, including a keylogger. Because of course the whole point of facebook is to automatically spy on you with milliseconds resolution.

Javascript? Optional. Replace the www in any Facebook address with m, for the legacy mobile version. I learned this exists when searching for a convenient way to download videos posted directly on The Facebook - in the mobile version, just right-click and save-as. Since then, mobile has become my default mode.

The "fancy" version of The Facebook requires JS from facebook.com and fbcdn.com ["facebook content distribution network"]. Block Javascript from all other sites while on the facebook.com domain and the thing works faster and better, without 3rd party user tracking. NoScript does the deed quite conveniently. AdBlock plasters over some of the cracks that may be left.

Another tracking feature: Links to posted URLs displayed in The Facebook do not point to the targets advertised, but to The Facebook itself, with PHP arguments appended; when clicked on, these links result in a fast redirect to the target site, with a Facebook tracking code appended, again as a PHP string. As far as I know, nobody has made a browser plugin to automagically sanitize this process; but the real link does appear in the on-page Facebook link; users can extract the real link, to kill that component of Facebook user tracking.

The Facebook's pages load a keylogger? I would like to hear more about that; so far I have seen no evidence of one.

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It should also be self-evident that nobody is ever going to be able to use a NSA-govcorp bulletin board to attack NSA-govcorp in any meaningful way. While you managed to inform a dozen people about the real nature of the society they live in, govcorp used facebook to disinform and manipulate 12 million people (or some such ratio between benefits and harm caused).

That strikes me as a case of "making the perfect the enemy of the good." All the better State sponsored dissident groups do that, both to assert their acolytes' moral superiority and to discourage anyone from doing anything that might have unwanted real world political impacts. As I said before, "It's a piss poor pitiful anarchist who's too stinkin' good to use the State's resources against the interests of the State."

I would stack up the long term social and political impact of the dozen or so minds The Facebook may have helped me ruin forever up against any 12,000 or so Normal People made more Normal by The Facebook itself, and call it a net win. The Facebook enables talent spotters to establish one on one comms channels on demand, a resource that presents as an exploitable weakness in the opposition's infrastructure. Anything you say can and will be used against you in political warfare, but knowing that in advance removes any real hazards. All of "us" got spotted IRL years ago, typically starting with MMPI* tests administered in public school.

"Where have you been? It's all right, we know where you've been." - The Pink Floyd, Welcome To The Machine.

As the global collapse of economic and natural ecosystems continues to accelerate, so will public demand for radical solutions. The networks enable exponential propagation of ideas and activities 'whose time has come', and we ain't seen nothing yet. Manipulating the initial conditions of the onset of the end of the world as we know it now, can produce greatly amplified effects later.

It's an ill wind that blows no minds.

:o)

*[Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, a shotgun psychological classification tool centrally scored at the University of Minnesota, thereby becoming part of any respondent's Permanent Record.]

On 4/20/19 9:49 PM, Punk wrote:

On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 17:43:17 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote:

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free-riders of the commune who weren't pulling their fair share of work, etc.

FREE RIDERS! GASP!!

In any social matrix, everybody contributes something, if only consistent honesty, reliability and concern for others. Except those who can't manage even that - and yeah I seen a few, fortunately just a few, here and there on my travels. From that all else follows, with regard to On vs. Off The Bus issues: The rider's own choice, take it or leave it. :o)

On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 18:11:53 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: me: > > Then you have rampant censorship at the hands of the asshole users themselves. So the vast majority of groups are heavily censored and just echo chambers.

Yup. However, those echo chambers do have their potential uses: One must always preach to the choir, else how will they get on the same page and work together effectively at show time?

Even if the group has a legitimate purpose, censorship is unacceptable. But what commonly happens is that censorship allows assholes to be unaccountable and fraudsters to go unchallenged. And unsurprisinly censorship is one the core 'features' of facebook. People LOVE to block and ban their betters because they know they can't never hope to refute them.

As an example, The Facebook has enabled me to distribute hundreds of copies of this package of documents to receptive readers:

http://web.archive.org/web/20190110192354/http://pilobilus.net/strategic_con...

I think that alone makes screwing around with The Facebook a net win.

Well, I don't think that's sound and complete accounting.

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Then you're running tons of javascript malware, including a keylogger. Because of course the whole point of facebook is to automatically spy on you with milliseconds resolution.

Javascript? Optional. Replace the www in any Facebook address with m, for the legacy mobile version. I learned this exists when searching for a convenient way to download videos posted directly on The Facebook - in the mobile version, just right-click and save-as. Since then, mobile has become my default mode.

I knew about the 'mobile' mode though it was rather crippled at the time I used it. But if you manage to use facebook without running JS, that's good and congrats. Also I assumed that by now that mode didn't exist anymore, or it required JS since 'modern' retard phones happen to have a lot of memory and fast multicore processors...for the very purpose of running JS malware. Funny that the NSA hasn't updated m.facebook.com yet...

The "fancy" version of The Facebook requires JS from facebook.com and fbcdn.com ["facebook content distribution network"]. Block Javascript from all other sites while on the facebook.com domain and the thing works faster and better, without 3rd party user tracking.

Yeah well. I don't think there's any 3rd party tracking in facebook. I'd assume facebook.com doesn't serve googletagmanager.com malware. And in the absurd case that they did, blocking google doesn't solve the problem of running facebook's malware.

NoScript does the deed quite conveniently. AdBlock plasters over some of the cracks that may be left.

Another tracking feature: Links to posted URLs displayed in The Facebook do not point to the targets advertised, but to The Facebook itself, with PHP arguments appended; when clicked on, these links result in a fast redirect to the target site, with a Facebook tracking code appended, again as a PHP string. As far as I know, nobody has made a browser plugin to automagically sanitize this process; but the real link does appear in the on-page Facebook link; users can extract the real link, to kill that component of Facebook user tracking.

Even if you copy the link (to then paste it somewhere else without the tracking bit), the right click/menu action may be recorded by the browser. I don't know if they actually do that, but they surely can. Piece of shit firefox for instance 'preloads'(follows) links when you just HOVER over them.

The Facebook's pages load a keylogger? I would like to hear more about that; so far I have seen no evidence of one.

IIRC when you 'tagged' 'friends', the tags were automatically recognized (or there even was autocomplete?) - Thing is, when you typed a message, there was a piece of code looking for 'friends' names. That means that *every time* a key-press event is triggered, some code runs. In other words, a keylogger. Whether the code saves all the key presses and sends them to the NSA I don't know, but it would be trivial for it to do that. I'm not sure if there was some sort of spell checker as well or other similar feature that required key press events to be processed in real time. I think there was but I can't recall the details. Bottom line of course is : once you run malware from something like facebook you can (and should) assume the worst.

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It should also be self-evident that nobody is ever going to be able to use a NSA-govcorp bulletin board to attack NSA-govcorp in any meaningful way. While you managed to inform a dozen people about the real nature of the society they live in, govcorp used facebook to disinform and manipulate 12 million people (or some such ratio between benefits and harm caused).

That strikes me as a case of "making the perfect the enemy of the good."

So you are saying that facebook is 'good'? - I could kinda rest my case here =P

All the better State sponsored dissident groups do that, both to assert their acolytes' moral superiority and to discourage anyone from doing anything that might have unwanted real world political impacts. As I said before, "It's a piss poor pitiful anarchist who's too stinkin' good to use the State's resources against the interests of the State."

See my previous message. There may be cases when using the state's infrastructure is expedient but that doesn't mean this necessarily is one of such cases.

I would stack up the long term social and political impact of the dozen or so minds The Facebook may have helped me ruin forever up against any 12,000 or so Normal People made more Normal by The Facebook itself, and call it a net win.

Net win measured how? It seems to me it's a 'net win' only if you ignore the huge amount of damage that something like facebook causes. Also, when you find people who are not 'normal' do you invite them to some other 'social network' not directly run by the NSA? Because it's a good idea to use facebook to distribute 'red pills', but once people are somewhat better educated, it doesn't make sense for them (and you) to keep using other facebook 'features'. Using facebook to promote alternative channels is legitimate, but if you are not taking away any users from facebook, then you are feeding fuckerbergs account. Not to mention protecting 'national security'.

The Facebook enables talent spotters to establish one on one comms channels on demand, a resource that presents as an exploitable weakness in the opposition's infrastructure. Anything you say can and will be used against you in political warfare, but knowing that in advance removes any real hazards. All of "us" got spotted IRL years ago, typically starting with MMPI* tests administered in public school.

"Where have you been? It's all right, we know where you've been." - The Pink Floyd, Welcome To The Machine.

As the global collapse of economic and natural ecosystems continues to accelerate, so will public demand for radical solutions.

There isn't any global collapse of the economic system. What's going on is the **exact opposite**. The global, fascist economic system known as multinational govcorp is getting more automated and totalitarian by the minute (things like facebook playing a central role in the process).

The networks enable exponential propagation of ideas and activities

What you are saying seems clearly unrealistic. The NSA NETWORKS allow exponential control of ideas and activities. That's what's going on. You know, just like you suggested a few times that I 'might be' helping the enemy, from my point of view that's what you are doing here to some extent by naively assuming you can beat them at their game using their surveillance tools.

'whose time has come', and we ain't seen nothing yet. Manipulating the initial conditions of the onset of the end of the world as we know it now, can produce greatly amplified effects later.

It's an ill wind that blows no minds.

:o)

*[Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, a shotgun psychological classification tool centrally scored at the University of Minnesota, thereby becoming part of any respondent's Permanent Record.]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 01:55:12 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote:

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Even if the group has a legitimate purpose, censorship is unacceptable. But what commonly happens is that censorship allows assholes to be unaccountable and fraudsters to go unchallenged. And unsurprisinly censorship is one the core 'features' of facebook. People LOVE to block and ban their betters because they know they can't never hope to refute them.

Legitimate: In accordance with the law.

Indeed (and I think we already discussed this) When I say "legitimate" I mean in accordance with natural law, not in accordance with the fascist dictates that the group of criminals usually known as 'government' calls 'law'. So, censorship is not legitimate because it's a violation of the natural right to free speech (a right that is not a government granted 'right' or privilege)

Latin root "leige" meaning "Lord" or, in practical terms, one's owner.

Do you have a source for that? Latin nominative for law is lex. Also latin for lord is something like dominus IIRC (hence domination, etc) https://www.reddit.com/r/latin/comments/9gsxb5/etymology_of_lex/ I don't think etymology matters too much anyway. The concept of natural law, as opposed to government made and imposed 'law', seems pretty anarchistic to me.

Probably not a good baseline for anarchist value judgments.

Au contraire... =)

:o)

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As an example, The Facebook has enabled me to distribute hundreds of copies of this package of documents to receptive readers:

http://web.archive.org/web/20190110192354/http://pilobilus.net/strategic_con...

I think that alone makes screwing around with The Facebook a net win.

Well, I don't think that's sound and complete accounting.

Customer satisfaction, on the customer's own chosen terms, provides the final bottom line. As long as I continue to consider The Facebook useful, I will continue to use it.

You are of course free to use it =) That doesn't change my overall evaluation of facebook though.

I just loaded up The Facebook and switched off all filters. On The Facebook, NoScript indicated that the page had loaded a script from google.com.

I stand corrected then. And I guess govcorp is even more crass than I assumed... Anyway, my point remains. Blocking in this case a 3rd party branch of the NSA like google while not blocking the '1st party' branch facebook seems kinda pointless.

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Bottom line of course is : once you run malware from something like facebook you can (and should) assume the worst.

That would be Javascript all right: A tangled mess that sometimes slows the browser down to a crawl.

Yep. Five years ago facebook JS malware didn't run well on a machine I comfortably use for 3d modelling and rendering. Crazy. I think I despise javashit 'developers' as much as cops.

I only /rarely/ shift out of "mobile" mode. But a keylogger "logs" keystrokes. The speed at which The Facebook populates autocompleted "suggestions" seems to indicate a script that compares strings after the last space to a preloaded list on the client side, not traffic to and from The Facebook itself.

The keystrokes can be logged client side and then transmitted in batches. That still is a keylogger. From what I recall there was something that (clearly) suggested to me that the script was operating at the character level(client side). Though maybe I'm misremembering. But even if the clues are not there, the keylogging code can be.

And presumably, one would intend to transmit anything typed in a Facebook web interface to The Facebook anyway...

Yes, but one would assume that the transmission would happen ONLY after hitting send and would only include the final version of the text. The assumption is wrong though.

When I signed up for a Facebook account a few years ago, they pestered me daily for months: Asking for the password to the e-mail account I gave them as my contact address. Their electronic begging letter said they would use it harvest the e-mail account's address book, so they could spam everyone in it with invitations to contact me on Facebook.

Haha. Reality is crazier than fiction...

Naturally, I laughed at that and kept the password out of their busy little hands. Eventually they gave up.

Turns out a LOT of people must have laughed at that, because later The Facebook started asking for new users' e-mail passwords as part of "confirming" any new account that someone was setting up. Then, in what sounds like an act of mockery, they displayed the users' contact lists to them was they were harvested. You can't make this shit up

Indeed.

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It should also be self-evident that nobody is ever going to be able to use a NSA-govcorp bulletin board to attack NSA-govcorp in any meaningful way. While you managed to inform a dozen people about the real nature of the society they live in, govcorp used facebook to disinform and manipulate 12 million people (or some such ratio between benefits and harm caused).

That strikes me as a case of "making the perfect the enemy of the good."

So you are saying that facebook is 'good'? - I could kinda rest my case here =P

I would refer readers to an earlier comment I made about anarchists who refuse to use the State's resources against the State's interests...

Yes, that's what we are discussing =P - So in my view the harm caused by something like facebook outweights any benefit that 'we' can derive from it. You still can use it to cause some minor damage to them but the overall balance is way against us.

:o)

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There isn't any global collapse of the economic system. What's going on is the **exact opposite**. The global, fascist economic system known as multinational govcorp is getting more automated and totalitarian by the minute (things like facebook playing a central role in the process).

Have you looked at geophysics and material economics much lately?

Not sure what you mean by material economics, but I've been looking for a while at the economics of global industrial fascism and they look healthy to me. Of course it's toxic for 99% of the world's population but as far as survival of the fascist system itself goes, I'm not seeing any problem. Quite the contrary.

The material resources necessary to sustain post-industrial civilization have stretched thinner every year since the 1980s and the utilization costs (in energy) of what remains has risen fast - the cheap, easy to get stuff already got used. Potable water, phosphates, topsoil, petrochemical fuels, copper... We do have an abundant and rising supply of demand, as exponential population growth continues.

Except, there's no exponential growth. In the last 100 years growth has been rather linear. And it can stop or even go down at any moment. Also, virtually all materials can be recycled and there's no shortage of 'green' industrial fascism, 'green' new deals(TM) 'green' and vastly overpriced electric cars , 'green' this and that. I don't say that to defend the system in any way. Just pointing out that industrial fascism can be 'managed'.

Global warming continues at a brisk pace. Drivers include annual methane emissions from former northern hemisphere permafrost bogs, and massive, newly discovered and Arctic sea floor blowout craters with more on the way. Methane traps heat WAY better than carbon dioxide, and we have unlocked the storehouse.

Warming oceans hold less dissolved oxygen, and anaerobic bacteria have started reclaiming old territory already, poisoning it with hydrogen sulphide. "Alarmist" global warming projections do not yet include the impact of the constant and accelerating rise of atmospheric methane. Take a peek at the Permian Extinction...

I think most or all of those facts are debatable. Coincidentally I am still waiting for Peter Fairbrother to explain how CO2 freezes in the poles... But anyway, a catasthropic change in the weather might wreck industrial fascism, so I hope global warming is real. Though I'm not holding my breath.

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You know, just like you suggested a few times that I 'might be' helping the enemy, from my point of view that's what you are doing here to some extent by naively assuming you can beat them at their game using their surveillance tools.

I do not recall ever suggesting that I might be "helping the enemy."

You suggested more than once that *I* might be. You call it being a "rebel as you're told" IIRC =)

As a rule I don't have enemies; that kind of thinking leads to irrational behavior and cumulative strategic losses. Example: Asserting that I naively assume I can beat the State at its own game. That looks like Name Calling and a Strawman attack in one sentence.

I'm concluding from your comments in this discussion that you think you can efectively use facebook against its owners. Am I misrepresenting your views?

I do have some skill in semantic games; you may notice that my posts in this thread do not make use of the words is, are, was, were, am, be, been, or variations on / contractions for same.

Oh interesting. No I didn't notice. Usually your writing style (and thinking) seem rather clear/elegant to me. But I think that's more a matter of substance than just avoiding the verb to be =P.

Called E-Prime, this technique makes clear communication easier, and losing arguments harder.

I doubt a single stylistic device can achieve all that =P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime

:o)