FBI to gain expanded hacking powers as Senate effort to block fails
FBI to gain expanded hacking powers as Senate effort to block fails http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-congress-idUSKBN13P2ER "[...] allow U.S. judges will be able to issue search warrants that give the FBI the authority to remotely access computers in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas." "[...] in the hands of an administration of President-elect Trump, a Republican who has "openly said he wants the power to hack his political opponents the same way Russia does." We are discussing the bad possibilities in some legal and technical studies groups in my country. Our laws don't permiss this kind of violation. Fu¢k FBI.
In an effort to address concerns, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Leslie Caldwell wrote a blog post this week arguing that the > benefits given to authorities from the rule changes outweighed any potential for "unintended harm."
That old line again. We know there are some serious concerns about this, and we know you're right and can't begin to formulate an argument against, but we really want these powers, so trust us it's for the greater good. It's a bit like how the UK Investigatory Powers Act contains many, many "safeguards". All of which are just promises not to misuse the data. Politicians never seem to get the argument that even if *they* are trustworthy, there's nothing to say the next bloke isn't going to be a nutjob. The post it refers to is here - https://www.justice.gov/opa/blog/additional-considerations-regarding-propose... - it places a lot of focus on various things they want to use it to stop, using the aged tactic of dropping some emotive crimes in there so that it's hard for people to disagree. Looking at the text though - https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_41 (6) a magistrate judge with authority in any district where activities related to a crime may have occurred has authority to issue a warrant to use remote access to search electronic storage media and to seize or copy electronically stored information located within or outside that district if: (A) the district where the media or information is located has been concealed through technological means; or (B) in an investigation of a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5), the media are protected computers that have been damaged without authorization and are located in five or more districts. There doesn't seem to be any restriction on what it can be used for, only that it fall under criminal law (and the things that fall under that tend to change over time). No reason they couldn't apply that to "criminal copyright infringement" for example. I do wonder how the American exceptionalists are going to cope when other countries pass similar legislation and starting popping American systems in greater numbers ("Well, it's legal under our laws"). Mind you, not like they haven't been getting extra-territorial for quite some time anyway. In both this and the UK IPA, it seems to be a case of legalising behaviour that's been going on for a long time anyway, rather than actually stepping back and looking at whether that behaviour is actually right (legal or not). Bad times ahead me thinks. On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
FBI to gain expanded hacking powers as Senate effort to block fails
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-congress-idUSKBN13P2ER
"[...] allow U.S. judges will be able to issue search warrants that give the FBI the authority to remotely access computers in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas."
"[...] in the hands of an administration of President-elect Trump, a Republican who has "openly said he wants the power to hack his political opponents the same way Russia does."
We are discussing the bad possibilities in some legal and technical studies groups in my country. Our laws don't permiss this kind of violation. Fu¢k FBI.
-- Ben Tasker https://www.bentasker.co.uk
This is a good thing - war on terror here we come -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 4, 2016, 6:09 AM, Ben Tasker wrote:
In an effort to address concerns, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Leslie Caldwell wrote a blog post this week arguing that the > benefits given to authorities from the rule changes outweighed any potential for "unintended harm."
That old line again. We know there are some serious concerns about this, and we know you're right and can't begin to formulate an argument against, but we really want these powers, so trust us it's for the greater good. It's a bit like how the UK Investigatory Powers Act contains many, many "safeguards". All of which are just promises not to misuse the data. Politicians never seem to get the argument that even if they are trustworthy, there's nothing to say the next bloke isn't going to be a nutjob. The post it refers to is here - https://www.justice.gov/opa/blog/additional-considerations-regarding-propose... - it places a lot of focus on various things they want to use it to stop, using the aged tactic of dropping some emotive crimes in there so that it's hard for people to disagree. Looking at the text though - https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_41 (6) a magistrate judge with authority in any district where activities related to a crime may have occurred has authority to issue a warrant to use remote access to search electronic storage media and to seize or copy electronically stored information located within or outside that district if: (A) the district where the media or information is located has been concealed through technological means; or (B) in an investigation of a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5), the media are protected computers that have been damaged without authorization and are located in five or more districts. There doesn't seem to be any restriction on what it can be used for, only that it fall under criminal law (and the things that fall under that tend to change over time). No reason they couldn't apply that to "criminal copyright infringement" for example. I do wonder how the American exceptionalists are going to cope when other countries pass similar legislation and starting popping American systems in greater numbers ("Well, it's legal under our laws"). Mind you, not like they haven't been getting extra-territorial for quite some time anyway. In both this and the UK IPA, it seems to be a case of legalising behaviour that's been going on for a long time anyway, rather than actually stepping back and looking at whether that behaviour is actually right (legal or not). Bad times ahead me thinks. On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote: FBI to gain expanded hacking powers as Senate effort to block fails http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-congress-idUSKBN13P2ER "[...] allow U.S. judges will be able to issue search warrants that give the FBI the authority to remotely access computers in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas." "[...] in the hands of an administration of President-elect Trump, a Republican who has "openly said he wants the power to hack his political opponents the same way Russia does." We are discussing the bad possibilities in some legal and technical studies groups in my country. Our laws don't permiss this kind of violation. Fu¢k FBI. -- Ben Tasker https://www.bentasker.co.uk
On Dec 4, 2016 3:03 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
This is a good thing - war on terror here we come
No, boy, it is _not_ a good thing. The governments and its institutions and agencies are the real terror and they will use 'a greater good' -- terrorism, paedophilia, spying, whatever -- as excuse to disrespect people's privacy and violate civil rights, creating new laws for justify their vile actions, if necessary. Or simply ignoring the already existent legislation and all the international agreements.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/04/2016 01:27 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Dec 4, 2016 3:03 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com <mailto:arpspoof@protonmail.com>> wrote:
This is a good thing - war on terror here we come
No, boy, it is _not_ a good thing. The governments and its institutions and agencies are the real terror and they will use 'a greater good' -- terrorism, paedophilia, spying, whatever -- as excuse to disrespect people's privacy and violate civil rights, creating new laws for justify their vile actions, if necessary. Or simply ignoring the already existent legislation and all the international agreements.
I don't think the FBI will gain expanded powers of surveillance; rather, they will gain the ability to use information they already routinely gather by illegal means openly, in Court filings. Where previously they had to work around the law by using illegal methods to locate information that is admissible in Court ("parallel construction"), they will be able to take a much more direct approach. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYRKSOAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqx3MIAMpsZ2ovlgQnLJvnwTV2Vb/D 4OuhigBi/hg+5FnrATK91mTe2rf+QRWTgKRmbUM58+3NA79cuo2x01jFvedURL9w inaMV5l0cQ/2igtrWIaaT0Ix7yUBW5dzCnjVTGDt0yODaDzgSrS1wyhgxtHMToDy D7U3GgxV5peitXygLpV7v8x4t7g8eEE2B5j3It75K9acZUXRWp82/Z08JQDRLq2q Bk0brRDLQCXFjr5qz6mFSqMNZ/PiZc+jTo++BtcBY94wB3PDHiEhKEcQJlwilNo3 jO8zSA3FyEAUtKNx47J8aenN1GLFAMiTqclc60nt13mODfDuC5ghCNDqyvlJvMc= =Nedc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 12/04/2016 04:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 12/04/2016 01:27 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Dec 4, 2016 3:03 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com <mailto:arpspoof@protonmail.com>> wrote:
This is a good thing - war on terror here we come
No, boy, it is _not_ a good thing. The governments and its institutions and agencies are the real terror and they will use 'a greater good' -- terrorism, paedophilia, spying, whatever -- as excuse to disrespect people's privacy and violate civil rights, creating new laws for justify their vile actions, if necessary. Or simply ignoring the already existent legislation and all the international agreements.
I don't think the FBI will gain expanded powers of surveillance; rather, they will gain the ability to use information they already routinely gather by illegal means openly, in Court filings. Where previously they had to work around the law by using illegal methods to locate information that is admissible in Court ("parallel construction"), they will be able to take a much more direct approach.
:o/
Yes, that's reality. FBI leeches data and skills from NSA. And NSA does whatever it wants to. US is always at war. And there are no laws in war.
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 4, 2016, 3:38 PM, Mirimir wrote: On 12/04/2016 04:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 12/04/2016 01:27 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Dec 4, 2016 3:03 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com <mailto:arpspoof@protonmail.com>> wrote:
This is a good thing - war on terror here we come
No, boy, it is _not_ a good thing. The governments and its institutions and agencies are the real terror and they will use 'a greater good' -- terrorism, paedophilia, spying, whatever -- as excuse to disrespect people's privacy and violate civil rights, creating new laws for justify their vile actions, if necessary. Or simply ignoring the already existent legislation and all the international agreements.
I don't think the FBI will gain expanded powers of surveillance; rather, they will gain the ability to use information they already routinely gather by illegal means openly, in Court filings. Where previously they had to work around the law by using illegal methods to locate information that is admissible in Court ("parallel construction"), they will be able to take a much more direct approach.
:o/
Yes, that's reality. FBI leeches data and skills from NSA. And NSA does whatever it wants to. US is always at war. And there are no laws in war.
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 18:45:09 -0500 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria
So tell us rooty, what's your favorite hobby? Maybe beat children to death?
-------- Original Message -------- On Dec 4, 2016, 3:38 PM, Mirimir wrote:
On 12/04/2016 04:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 12/04/2016 01:27 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Dec 4, 2016 3:03 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com <mailto:arpspoof@protonmail.com>> wrote:
This is a good thing - war on terror here we come
No, boy, it is _not_ a good thing. The governments and its institutions and agencies are the real terror and they will use 'a greater good' -- terrorism, paedophilia, spying, whatever -- as excuse to disrespect people's privacy and violate civil rights, creating new laws for justify their vile actions, if necessary. Or simply ignoring the already existent legislation and all the international agreements.
I don't think the FBI will gain expanded powers of surveillance; rather, they will gain the ability to use information they already routinely gather by illegal means openly, in Court filings. Where previously they had to work around the law by using illegal methods to locate information that is admissible in Court ("parallel construction"), they will be able to take a much more direct approach.
:o/
Yes, that's reality. FBI leeches data and skills from NSA. And NSA does whatever it wants to. US is always at war. And there are no laws in war.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:57 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 18:45:09 -0500 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria
So tell us rooty, what's your favorite hobby? Maybe beat children to death?
In another message: "Come on rooty. Tell us how do you amuse yourself? Torture kitten maybe?" And in another thread: "Have you stoped beating your wife?" Juan, you are so racist and dishonest as your little friends Zzz and Trump. So, do you think that any man from Syria will beat children and women to death and torture kittens? So many prejudices against a country and its people, tsk tsk... It's disgusting and very contraditory, but you are always so correct and never are wrong, aren't you? ;) Hypocrite, you are a prejudiced nazi, Juan. Men like you do the same kind of thing in Argentina, but you think your country is better than Syria, that you are better than Syrian men, more "civilized" maybe. Be coherent, Juan, less hypocrite when talking about prejudices, please.
well get used to it sea sea - new president elect Trump going to "light um up" "eliminate the threat" -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 5, 2016, 4:00 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:57 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote: On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 18:45:09 -0500 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria
So tell us rooty, what's your favorite hobby? Maybe beat children to death? In another message: "Come on rooty. Tell us how do you amuse yourself? Torture kitten maybe?" And in another thread: " Have you stoped beating your wife?" Juan, you are so racist and dishonest as your little friends Zzz and Trump. So, do you think that any man from Syria will beat children and women to death and torture kittens? So many prejudices against a country and its people, tsk tsk... It's disgusting and very contraditory, but you are always so correct and never are wrong, aren't you? ;) Hypocrite, you are a prejudiced nazi, Juan. Men like you do the same kind of thing in Argentina, but you think your country is better than Syria, that you are better than Syrian men, more "civilized" maybe. Be coherent, Juan, less hypocrite when talking about prejudices, please.
On 12/05/2016 09:03 AM, rooty wrote:
well get used to it sea sea - new president elect Trump going to "light um up" "eliminate the threat"
Eliminate.... You mean like this? This is the justice despots can expect. Rr
-------- Original Message -------- On Dec 5, 2016, 4:00 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:57 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com <mailto:juan.g71@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 18:45:09 -0500 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com <mailto:arpspoof@protonmail.com>> wrote:
> right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here > although I'm not brown and from Seria
So tell us rooty, what's your favorite hobby? Maybe beat children to death?
In another message:
"Come on rooty. Tell us how do you amuse yourself? Torture kitten maybe?"
And in another thread:
" Have you stoped beating your wife?"
Juan, you are so racist and dishonest as your little friends Zzz and Trump. So, do you think that any man from Syria will beat children and women to death and torture kittens? So many prejudices against a country and its people, tsk tsk... It's disgusting and very contraditory, but you are always so correct and never are wrong, aren't you? ;)
Hypocrite, you are a prejudiced nazi, Juan. Men like you do the same kind of thing in Argentina, but you think your country is better than Syria, that you are better than Syrian men, more "civilized" maybe. Be coherent, Juan, less hypocrite when talking about prejudices, please.
On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 10:00:05 -0200 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 9:57 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 18:45:09 -0500 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria
So tell us rooty, what's your favorite hobby? Maybe beat children to death?
In another message:
"Come on rooty. Tell us how do you amuse yourself? Torture kitten maybe?"
And in another thread:
"Have you stoped beating your wife?"
Juan, you are so racist and dishonest as your little friends Zzz and Trump. So, do you think that any man from Syria will beat children and women to death and torture kittens?
Grasping at straws are you? "rooty" is a troll who posts nonsense, so I replied with more nonsense. Admitedly a useless move on my part. But you managed to create yet another soap opera out of a couple of random sentences.
So many prejudices against a country and its people, tsk tsk... It's disgusting and very contraditory, but you are always so correct and never are wrong, aren't you? ;)
Hypocrite, you are a prejudiced nazi, Juan. Men like you do the same kind of thing in Argentina, but you think your country is better than Syria,
LMAO...Yes cecilia, first and foremost I am a Nationalist... And "rooty" is from syria...because he, an anonymous troll, said so. that you are better than Syrian men, more "civilized" maybe.
Be coherent, Juan, less hypocrite when talking about prejudices, please.
On Dec 4, 2016 8:45 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although
I'm not brown and from Seria "No problems here", rooty? Are you crazy, boy? We are discussing the future of world' surveillance, not your 'absence of problems'. It is _not_ about the colour of your skin or your country, but about all the countries, about all the people, about all the colours and believes. It's about the future. Please, don't be so selfish. We all must fight against these invisible and cruel enemies. It is a real war, not a game. All the lives are important.
mmm.. don't get it. Rather than look at said agencies as enemies - I see them as agencies trying to help and protect - of course 2 important things I don't break the law don't owe them money Simple - -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 4, 2016, 4:11 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: On Dec 4, 2016 8:45 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria
"No problems here", rooty? Are you crazy, boy? We are discussing the future of world' surveillance, not your 'absence of problems'. It is _not_ about the colour of your skin or your country, but about all the countries, about all the people, about all the colours and believes. It's about the future. Please, don't be so selfish. We all must fight against these invisible and cruel enemies. It is a real war, not a game. All the lives are important.
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 20:02:23 -0500 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
mmm.. don't get it. Rather than look at said agencies as enemies - I
Come on rooty. Tell us how do you amuse yourself? Torture kitten maybe?
see them as agencies trying to help and protect - of course 2 important things
I don't break the law don't owe them money
Simple -
-------- Original Message -------- On Dec 4, 2016, 4:11 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Dec 4, 2016 8:45 PM, "rooty" <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
right - they been doing that shit for Years. No problems here although I'm not brown and from Seria
"No problems here", rooty? Are you crazy, boy? We are discussing the future of world' surveillance, not your 'absence of problems'.
It is _not_ about the colour of your skin or your country, but about all the countries, about all the people, about all the colours and believes. It's about the future.
Please, don't be so selfish. We all must fight against these invisible and cruel enemies. It is a real war, not a game. All the lives are important.
On Dec 4, 2016 8:38 PM, "Mirimir" <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 12/04/2016 04:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
I don't think the FBI will gain expanded powers of surveillance;
rather, they will gain the ability to use information they already routinely gather by illegal means openly, in Court filings. Where previously they had to work around the law by using illegal methods to locate information that is admissible in Court ("parallel construction"), they will be able to take a much more direct approach.
:o/
Yes, that's reality. FBI leeches data and skills from NSA. And NSA does whatever it wants to. US is always at war. And there are no laws in war.
Yep, unhappily both are correct and the reality is very very sad, worse than my nightmares and fears. :( "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein This comic strip always makes me feel sad: < http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2011/02/21>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/04/2016 06:56 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Dec 4, 2016 8:38 PM, "Mirimir" <mirimir@riseup.net <mailto:mirimir@riseup.net>> wrote:
On 12/04/2016 04:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
I don't think the FBI will gain expanded powers of surveillance;
rather, they will gain the ability to use information they already routinely gather by illegal means openly, in Court filings. Where previously they had to work around the law by using illegal methods to locate information that is admissible in Court ("parallel construction"), they will be able to take a much more direct approach.
:o/
Yes, that's reality. FBI leeches data and skills from NSA. And NSA does whatever it wants to. US is always at war. And there are no laws in war.
Yep, unhappily both are correct and the reality is very very sad, worse than my nightmares and fears. :(
On the brighter side, direct action politics is on the rise in the U.S. at present. The NeoLiberal Democratic party has split its base, by deliberately disenfranchising Sanders supporters in its own ranks. Up for grabs and up for action, this faction appears to be mobilizing: According to Federal Election Commission filings, active duty military personnel and DoD employees were the top block of private contributors to the Sanders campaign. Now 3,000 veterans have shown up at Standing Rock and the Administration appears to have backed down from removing them by force. It is too early to imagine that this is a sign of major populist uprisings to come, but we are heading into "interesting times" in 2017. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYRK/FAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqz0sH/05DGiKwjVqdCGeq1Oje0R3Z KjLC1sJG5vifMT70YNF+55HEN7Dc/XNCZPXR+0c51HbtisBHp0Lto9BLMyQXdV3K Y5lRW5/Wyq2zOAgFimPTmq8OWr71bMy9ewf7gQisF/IGD/RixbVc/OKYqef9tFTI iQfn4Qj+uAUQKWxzXyybHB+Nm/xF8f7ipOuj9jSRgFYxrGqnaM7OXDUw2hSkm+1S 0qjtEioLLgVwJibgmCq1U/DzoPzRrNomhA4jnOY2uJfHzuG+BhQC3dfRuAUtJkc5 OK2f32CAgo5qljqMvl8CEr0dWSL5TaIZQbvPmg620til3WW495X3h9cwGjMUcXU= =XAG8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (7)
-
Ben Tasker -
Cecilia Tanaka -
juan -
Mirimir -
Razer -
rooty -
Steve Kinney