[dos@dosowisko.net: Re: [Tinkerphones] "We don't control our lives" - smartphones - tinkerphones - debian on smartphones]
fyi ----- Forwarded message from Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <dos@dosowisko.net> ----- From: Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <dos@dosowisko.net> To: Tinkerphones Community <community@tinkerphones.org> Cc: CypherPunks <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org> Reply-To: Tinkerphones Community <community@tinkerphones.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:46:09 +0200 Subject: Re: [Tinkerphones] "We don't control our lives" - smartphones - tinkerphones - debian on smartphones List-Id: Tinkerphones Community <community.tinkerphones.org> Hi, just for the record - the Debian wiki pages you have linked to are rather outdated and not really relevant anymore. Current efforts around running Debian on mobile phones (such as Librem 5 and PinePhone) are concentrated around DebianOnMobile team, which includes people working on PureOS and Mobian pushing their stuff to Debian upstream. Recent weeks brought massive progress and Purism's Phosh environment is now on its way to Debian Testing. See: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/internet/2020/MiniDebConfOnline?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=DebianOnMobile.pdf https://salsa.debian.org/DebianOnMobile-team https://lists.debian.org/debian-mobile/2020/05/msg00000.html https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=debian-on-mobile-maintainers@aliot... https://matrix.to/#/#mobile-debian:matrix.org Cheers, dos On 7/29/20, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
With respect to "smart" phones, it can be reasonably claimed that we don't control our lives.
At the hardware level, the baseband (radio) computer in almost all cases has access to RAM, thus access to your passwords and keys for any open wallet or encrypted filesystem, etc.
Notwithstanding, we owe it to ourselves to run an operating system which at least does not deny to us, our right to install and run any software of our choosing.
The average Android and iOS Apple phone, is a strict walled garden into which only authorised software may be installed.
Software "Apps" which are not authorised (or have been banned) by either Google or Apple respectively, are not available in the respective "Play Store".
This is abhorrent, a centralisation of power, a blatant censorship vector, financially burdensome to those of meagre means, and fundamentally unethical in principle wrt the suppression of the basic rights of the end user (refer to Richard Stallman's GNU General Public License for details of fundamental human rights in relation to software/ apps/ computing).
Totally random scenario/ example:
Some rando punk decides Tor needs improvement, and works diligently for zero pay and little gratitude to bring say (random examples) chaff and UDP transport layer features to Tor.
After horrific bugs and even worse security problems in the code are identified / repaired by tragically paranoid other punks, NeoTor takes off, thwarting the deep state's end to end onion route monitoring network, and so an urgent order is made upon Google to cease and decist from distributing such nefarious software.
Google of course complies immediately, and almost all users go back to using old Tor.
The stranglehold Google and Apple have on not only limiting the average user to approved software only, but to enforce total transparency upon all developers to idetify themselves with 100 points of ID just to TEST their software, and to pay some fiats for the priviledge whilst they're at it, is ... a little less than satisfactory.
Having experienced the pain of an Android phone, even after unlocking still being locked into the garden and offered only "Google" or "XiaoMi" when saving every contact (and never "local storage only"), and the pain of finding and installing a rooted OS (_how_ many dozen options? I _still_ have to choose Google or XiaoMi if I want to backup my contact list? there's really _no_ easy option to just dump it to my laptop with an ad hoc wireless?)
... it is evident I would be MORE than happy to pay $50 to make this pain go away by having someone at my local computer club back up my address book and install Debian on my phone.
What we need is Debian on the phone.
And we need this to be super easy for the average geek to install, and thousands of average geeks need to start getting these donations to install Debian on Android phones. Given how painful it is for someone supposedly "technically literate", this ought be a fantastic business opportunity.
So Debian on mobile phones? It's possible.
What is needed is a geek-able process whereby the "CyanogenMod" mobile phone operating systems are split into an absolute minimal "bootloader + kernel + drivers etc" for a specific device, and the operating system is a separate install on top of that, and for those who care, Debian as the OS.
https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile
https://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community
https://lists.debian.org/debian-mobile/
https://lists.debian.org/debian-embedded/
https://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/
https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/android-tools-devel
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnHandhelds
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@tinkerphones.org http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.tinkerphones.org
-- Sebastian Krzyszkowiak dos _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@tinkerphones.org http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.tinkerphones.org ----- End forwarded message -----
George Carlin rants on this topic: https://youtu.be/DxZZt4EAKSQ On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:25 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
fyi
----- Forwarded message from Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <dos@dosowisko.net> -----
From: Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <dos@dosowisko.net> To: Tinkerphones Community <community@tinkerphones.org> Cc: CypherPunks <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org> Reply-To: Tinkerphones Community <community@tinkerphones.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:46:09 +0200 Subject: Re: [Tinkerphones] "We don't control our lives" - smartphones - tinkerphones - debian on smartphones List-Id: Tinkerphones Community <community.tinkerphones.org>
Hi,
just for the record - the Debian wiki pages you have linked to are rather outdated and not really relevant anymore.
Current efforts around running Debian on mobile phones (such as Librem 5 and PinePhone) are concentrated around DebianOnMobile team, which includes people working on PureOS and Mobian pushing their stuff to Debian upstream.
Recent weeks brought massive progress and Purism's Phosh environment is now on its way to Debian Testing.
See:
https://salsa.debian.org/DebianOnMobile-team
https://lists.debian.org/debian-mobile/2020/05/msg00000.html
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=debian-on-mobile-maintainers@aliot...
https://matrix.to/#/#mobile-debian:matrix.org
Cheers, dos
With respect to "smart" phones, it can be reasonably claimed that we don't control our lives.
At the hardware level, the baseband (radio) computer in almost all cases has access to RAM, thus access to your passwords and keys for any open wallet or encrypted filesystem, etc.
Notwithstanding, we owe it to ourselves to run an operating system which at least does not deny to us, our right to install and run any software of our choosing.
The average Android and iOS Apple phone, is a strict walled garden into which only authorised software may be installed.
Software "Apps" which are not authorised (or have been banned) by either Google or Apple respectively, are not available in the respective "Play Store".
This is abhorrent, a centralisation of power, a blatant censorship vector, financially burdensome to those of meagre means, and fundamentally unethical in principle wrt the suppression of the basic rights of the end user (refer to Richard Stallman's GNU General Public License for details of fundamental human rights in relation to software/ apps/ computing).
Totally random scenario/ example:
Some rando punk decides Tor needs improvement, and works diligently for zero pay and little gratitude to bring say (random examples) chaff and UDP transport layer features to Tor.
After horrific bugs and even worse security problems in the code are identified / repaired by tragically paranoid other punks, NeoTor takes off, thwarting the deep state's end to end onion route monitoring network, and so an urgent order is made upon Google to cease and decist from distributing such nefarious software.
Google of course complies immediately, and almost all users go back to using old Tor.
The stranglehold Google and Apple have on not only limiting the average user to approved software only, but to enforce total transparency upon all developers to idetify themselves with 100 points of ID just to TEST their software, and to pay some fiats for the priviledge whilst they're at it, is ... a little less than satisfactory.
Having experienced the pain of an Android phone, even after unlocking still being locked into the garden and offered only "Google" or "XiaoMi" when saving every contact (and never "local storage only"), and the pain of finding and installing a rooted OS (_how_ many dozen options? I _still_ have to choose Google or XiaoMi if I want to backup my contact list? there's really _no_ easy option to just dump it to my laptop with an ad hoc wireless?)
... it is evident I would be MORE than happy to pay $50 to make this
away by having someone at my local computer club back up my address book and install Debian on my phone.
What we need is Debian on the phone.
And we need this to be super easy for the average geek to install, and thousands of average geeks need to start getting these donations to install Debian on Android phones. Given how painful it is for someone supposedly "technically literate", this ought be a fantastic business opportunity.
So Debian on mobile phones? It's possible.
What is needed is a geek-able process whereby the "CyanogenMod" mobile
On 7/29/20, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote: pain go phone
operating systems are split into an absolute minimal "bootloader + kernel + drivers etc" for a specific device, and the operating system is a separate install on top of that, and for those who care, Debian as the OS.
https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile
https://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community
https://lists.debian.org/debian-mobile/
https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/android-tools-devel
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnHandhelds
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@tinkerphones.org http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.tinkerphones.org
-- Sebastian Krzyszkowiak dos _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@tinkerphones.org http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.tinkerphones.org
----- End forwarded message -----
participants (2)
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Steven Schear -
Zenaan Harkness