On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:58:02 -0700 Mirimir wrote:

On 01/01/2016 04:58 PM, juan wrote:

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On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:15:01 -0800 Rayzer wrote: https://archive.is/J9lZV

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And after writing all that....he killed himself?

Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe someone pwned the account.

That's certainly possible.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/02/2016 04:24 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to the community, and closure won't come easily.

The most complete account I have seen so far: http://sfbay.ca/2015/12/31/police-confirm-ian-murdock-arrest-before- suicide/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWiETcAAoJEDZ0Gg87KR0LF70P/RgaHLoRPVw4RMnhHPs3zFqw MLV3L1X1dUDwy2Fs7n0qHCucc+kRf+wWXilJScpgtb/3o/qJzBGMgZUmTv1OyNoA CCuyvYyimZRMA5QLWyOCXRL2/OXY1PSXw6easnlVoDPHILLmclzkouhY/QNxuliV T2S7MWua9f05pcIs7ac7mOlM+wRZXyejusgVkuO894XSViE56zjZL1t1NIqD9Wss AgIurGE9/K1Whp7bmxEUn41L6fRyJZL0k8CUWJA5ee4ZWIx25uaAurVlHcQSSlYR hD3bffeMxXntlhV4910GIosBQ+535rx7Na6rOFtZjfEYWyZdzIqy1CNYmF22smEw USBL1KWEFmP7HbrjHT5cFzKO7veEgrHH9P3HZA1NM62SYQCmNxEGOSXSPjnbMdvF 2zGhdEIggOcrAJmdpOlbCNeA6/an8+UQbx8VExd+hBgZOttmuwVvR5j6DrdmmgN9 f4Hsy751ph48PwHxC+lixPiZicODboZvyjgJaZublrtnthq1/YVNHWYrp+QA4zz5 pBO9ghvGJhzebtXKIsQwEQa9jWSGNFNzljALghAckkzzh10wygny+tSUhxBaruzK c0GFoZ26em870Tw2MFWQbQvG3UhNbLu6OPb8utmqY5Z2BUNvfphTicEhczD4hdRv rcMVcCwNZY6rGTB5+Z1u =ixx/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 01/02/2016 03:32 PM, juan wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:24:48 -0500 Steve Kinney wrote:

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I believe it would be a Good Thing if word was passed hand to hand in the direction of Ian's family, to the effect that Conspiracy Nuts

wow - you just keep outdoing yourself...

'course, saying that the messages in his account are fake has nothing to do with 'conspiracies'

:)

will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy is

...

performed. (And maybe not even then.)

No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to the community, and closure won't come easily.

We can all agree that "closure won't come easily", no?

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 04:43:24 -0500 Steve Kinney wrote:

I don't recall saying that the messages in his account are fake, or that a conspiracy of any sort took place.

Ray : https://archive.is/J9lZV Me : And after writing all that....he killed himself? Mirimir : Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe someone pwned the account. Me : That's certainly possible. You : "Stating the obvious: When he was arrested, it is likely that a phone with stored login credentials for his personal accounts was in hostile hands for at least a few hours." Sorry Steve but considering the quoted context, what else could you possibly be saying. You even added "Nothing posted in his name after the time of his arrest should be taken at face value." You seem to be clearly suggesting that the messages are fake, plus advancing the 'conspiracy' theory that the police was involved. Which is, of course, a plausible 'hypothesis'.

I do suggest that any practicable measures to verify the details of any narrative, including collection of physical evidence through a formal process, would be a Good Thing. "To avoid even the appearance of," etc.

...

...

will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy is

...

performed. (And maybe not even then.)

No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to the community, and closure won't come easily.

We can all agree that "closure won't come easily", no?

Verily.

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/03/2016 03:57 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:

This is the **cypherpunks** mail list. Isn't the point of of being a punk to *question* authority, and the cypherpunk to question the narrative of weak authentication systems?

It seems important not to confuse the man Ian with a device and cryptographic key that was once known to be in posession of the man, who is now deceased.

Now if there is some reliable human witness that Ian actually keyed that text into a device in his physical posession then I think we'd all like to hear about it.

The only digital witness to the alleged tweets is not a particularly credible one, in my opinion.

"Everybody lies." - Greg House First and foremost we lie to ourselves, continuously, as our central nervous systems build models of the world based on incomplete data and unexamined assumptions. We usually believe the result of this process is the "real world," because it is the only world we can experience. We have to believe, because the processing overhead of questioning and testing everything, all the time, would be crippling - and the results would be inconclusive. But there is a limit to the advantage of taking our illusory impressions of the real world at face value, and sometimes it does pay to consciously examine how confident we are of a source of information, why we have that confidence, and how these factors should affect own conclusions about that information. What evidence do we really have, where did it come from and how can it be tested? When our available information is second hand, ambiguous and/or self contradictory, and especially when it originates in a context of human conflict, there may be no rational basis for confident conclusions about what really happened: Just a cluster of possible interpretations which can be assigned higher or lower probability on a basis of educated guesswork about the quality of the sources and how the information itself fits - or does not fit - - into what we already 'know' about its native context. People who do this for a living are called intelligence analysts, and their training includes all of the above. When the going gets spooky, the spooks his the books. Highly recommended for anyone who takes an interest in news and current events: http://cryptome.org/2013/01/aaron-swartz/Psychology-of-Intelligence- Analysis.pdf Subjective human experience is the instrument that detects and represents "reality," so it pays to have a handle on how that system works. I doubt that the CIA requires trainees to read and study this textbook, but it wouldn't hurt if they did: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/04%20Prometheus%20Rising .pdf :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWiaE4AAoJEDZ0Gg87KR0LSPoP/1j1LN8HOoMsxWeBMjzjpz7a zY/17dX4F0mYKSgUUs81b2wDCnezd0xfopNDOVqcttiDJN2otXOqGjAeUcBkl6Gt /9dkDqP0cB0LR6NTKUHtYLHK3aoklD3IbsNTc5HCGihefSCPykVhxcFTt1fv/XRB b0AD++ZgjBHc8EsZfq6C04NWcGG8CXugBQ3moE/4y/hRMM5uax2FXSmalFU+LMcC GfjDICu48AVAWnQqTst4onQmFLGEHsC9tsxn5qB7Jj0IkPg28at4lELdIwDxMiIq nMM8vrZEAr95seYp4+4h2fMX4gZBrdD5w4/2+16a6yuB0yZIS6oPZgX5Kf8dZ9g5 yz5X7KhL1BHQrS7mgktJfOUBbGbjfIG8Dx60nIMmVn55qkErUlS9jYkPZ6n3r3Si ypUcxo3VQZyCAm859sorwyej9CAgujBFGgkb/8P7Y0KVXQbZFA8wqzH8AchJ3YEu zZrJ1AO0gFovpL448M+vxeXXOqUpOOTJjvde9QmqiyDhisT8iO1R4yaOnaGrQuYI +WHXWgJwZkOzGUwzIw3UitwQzT8a/BbSifG17muYcSSp2KQ8Pdt70ng4JpVzETvN +i4mzzOobR1+sIwvdM1pkzYDNSiDYfnLaYYdx++DnJ3euCHQAixipoe5MtWm+mrz +hM+bJ4RVSHEKMC6oRnn =adrX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On January 1, 2016 9:30:33 PM "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote:

Is this the most complete archive that exists? Granted, what's there is pretty damning towards whatever LEA is involved, but it seems like there's more to it before where this one cuts off.

--

This is the most complete archive of his tweets that I've seen: https://archive.is/DcVrY

On 01/01/2016 10:39 PM, Rayzer wrote:

Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

...

...

How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!

(RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)

A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left him, according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock, founder of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his post-incarceration archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV Is this the most complete archive that exists? Granted, what's there is

On Fri, 2016-01-01 at 11:15 -0800, Rayzer wrote: pretty damning towards whatever LEA is involved, but it seems like there's more to it before where this one cuts off.

Source, reply in a thread by @ioerror: https://twitter.com/tellmemo/status/682555293822091264

American LEA have been heavily militarized, for sure. And they've increasingly been trained to escalate confrontations and dominate. Still, I find it hard to imagine how a middle-aged, upper-middle-class white guy would have been beaten down like that. Unless he was out of control, anyway. But then, I have no recent experience with the San Francisco County Sheriff's Department or SFPD. Maybe they're tired of fucking with rich nerds. Maybe, if he were non-white, they would have just shot him. Whatever happened, it's very sad.

On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 03:23:28AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:

Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health / medication,

Reddit is one of the most reliable sources you can cite. Next time try /. or stackexchange. RIP Ian

Shelley wrote:

On January 3, 2016 7:42:46 AM Georgi Guninski wrote:

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On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 03:23:28AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:

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Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health / medication,

Reddit is one of the most reliable sources you can cite.

I laughed out loud, for real :) Yeah, one of their "finest" moments was when they falsely but loudly accused a man who had gone missing as being one of the Boston Marathon bombers, that was a real piece of work. It's like a failed /b/ raid, but without actual hackers*.

* Well, back when /b/ was still good**.

** /b/ was never good.

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RIP Ian

Indeed. What a damn shame.

-S

He contemplated suicide pre-incident. "Mood Med Ramp Up" causes that, and erratic behavior. Looks like a suicide with PD abuse as contributing factor. He apparently died at the altercation address too. No word about who lived at that address... X-GF/BF? Crack Dealer? "I am the owl I seek out the foul Wipe 'em away Keep America free For clean livin' folks like me If you demonstrate Against somebody we like I'll slip on my wig And see if I can start a riot Transform you to an angry mob All your leaders go to jail for my job But we ain't the Russians Political trials are taboo We've got our secret Ways of getting rid of you Fill you full of LSD Turn you loose on a freeway [Chorus] Send you spinning Send you spinning Send you spinning all over the freeway Spinning on the crowded freeway Spinning on the freeway Spinning on the freeway Spin Spin Spin-Lookout #DeadKennedys http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/iamtheowl.html -- RR "You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around with mine until it worked..."

Jason McVetta wrote:

I encourage everyone reading this, regardless of where you live, to contact California Assemblyman David Chiu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chiu_%28politician%29. Chiu is a the California state legislator for the district including San Francisco. He is a mainstream elitist/financialist Democrat, but historically he has been close to the Silicon Valley tech community.

When you call Chiu's office, explain the Murdock case if the staffer you speak with is not familiar. Politely mention that the SFPD is widely known to be corrupt. Then ask that the Assemblyman work to have the incident investigated /by an independent investigator from outside the San Francisco Police Department/. A state assemblymember does not have direct legal authority to appoint an investigator - but for sure, if an elected legislator speaks out, many people will listen.

Assemblyman Chiu's office phone number is (916) 319-2017. You can also contact him electronically thru his official website http://asmdc.org/members/a17/.

Some members of this list may criticize this suggestion as naively optimistic. Maybe it is; but I guess I haven't completely given up all hope for our "democratic" political institutions. Anarchists will call that foolish; the rest will, I hope, call Assemblyman Chiu's office.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 12:23 AM, grarpamp mailto:grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:56 AM, Mirimir mailto:mirimir@riseup.net> wrote: > American LEA have been heavily militarized, for sure. And they've > increasingly been trained to escalate confrontations and dominate. > > Still, I find it hard to imagine how a middle-aged, upper-middle-class > white guy would have been beaten down like that.

"The police are uneducated, evil, and sadistic. Do not trust them. … The rest of my life is to fight against the police. … they are NOT friends, so don’t ever ever believe otherwise.”

Anyhow... Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health / medication, philosophy, etc yielding yet another unraveling. Reiser, Schwartz, Murdock... others... Learning from such things, were it to be, is a lucky priviledge and moment of insight.

I still think it's a med reaction exacerbated by his run in with the SFPD. What I'd really like to have examined is a toxicology report for Murdock, due to his repeated erratic behavior the SFPD 'intervened' in. You'd think they'd do such a thing, but I suspect not. At one point in my younger days I personally knew Abbie Hoffman. Later in life, and at the other end of the US I had a hard time believing the story of his suicide having always noted his maniac side but never seeing the 'down side' of his personality. I broached that on a list where someone who knew him a lot better than me posts and he went and asked Abbie's brother-in-law Wally, from his first marriage to Anita Hoffman. The response from Wally was an eyeopener. Apparently Abbie was not in very good health and had about 95% arterial blockage. Then he was feeling under the weather so the doctors prescribed Prozac for him, unknowing at the time that the combination of arterial blockage and prozac causes suicidal thoughts and tendencies. I suspect something similar happened to Ian Murdock, and the SFPD was involved, and crudely so, but unless the 'abrasions' to his head that needed stitches were severe enough to have caused his demise or exacerbated a pre-existing head injury or unknown such as potential for cerebral hemorrhage (again, this could be due to prescription meds), it just another instance of the police as insensitive abusive bureaucrats-with-guns ham-handly 'dealing' with a citizen, booking and releasing him. -- RR "You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around with mine until it worked..."