UK To Ban Crypto In Devices, Email And More
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet... Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws 3:16PM GMT 02 Nov 2015 Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday. Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose. Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant.
On 11/03/2015 09:27 AM, grarpamp wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet...
Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws
3:16PM GMT 02 Nov 2015
Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday. Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose. Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant.
Protonmail.ch has been under ongoing dDos attacks since the 3rd. They are one of the email providers using proprietary 'unbreakable' (in this case CERN & MIT developed) encryption. https://twitter.com/ProtonMail RR
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 15:48:40 -0800 Razer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
Protonmail.ch has been under ongoing dDos attacks since the 3rd. They are one of the email providers using proprietary 'unbreakable' (in this case CERN & MIT developed) encryption.
Sounds like QUANTUMBOT has been spun up again. - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS] PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ "I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWO5xsAAoJED1np1pUQ8RkO+cP/js4VCCcR+ez+h1qWnCkw8en 3Rtxxv4Lc1jknW7eqdmH5L7xwGpN40UFMdx58dDg3UWrWWR7AxV8xtMdBCYhR2gH U7hpTrc4ND4R16PGvIqNDL9v+xcylnzAw1/rPcDAXsAIeoWBfMan0673uiSwXO2m pfgy/IQYzDFZiGnY8UHU5ig3Wxy9fVtkjoX9E14N+hqKwd+rRHyUG/zpG7tt0pfd mvN1ii0j4n4JXkN7sOiSBq79d1iHbXLx1oNb2TishvlhR3EcldmcVc9KIHClO77I tY4bbWCgoaZB/PTNc8vSo32Yo/i23+uZNkzVBTj9qgD1pUC5vWUPnNjgXe/QYP51 ylVl1LdBgEApDQExR76UjTqrxlY0jPZ7p+E3CGWBg452Ztd4pquzNjNPFHI2UDrE BfAQ1IxRrr6W5rXOlfSkgdCnxGgjK4/M71Jwi9xwcUWsaqlYqjNAJjTq7Bc0m5OT uWalstZhQ2m4P335Aai6okDODS9GM3ltpoC1x64C5rVSckeF/8t1cxmzjVA4NVpF K9Yqdm5VeDqzPT4bxu7AEb8uObDW84u9Pd6LZm2gHZ+kgr8zE3455irz52iLdNlN Xsku6JCqkuwWu9RktRwG+/ikTS46AVzr98F1rErtYvpoWHyHGGeNHxrkILnuLlSN f79IZJfo+93qKPoQNkiQ =Jh6K -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 9:27 AM Subject: UK To Ban Crypto In Devices, Email And More http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet-firms-to-be-banned-from-offering-out-of-reach-communications-under-new-laws.html>banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws the government happy.
3:16PM GMT 02 Nov 2015 Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday. Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose. Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant. The UK government is able to do this, in part because UK doesn't have a Constitution,merely a Parliament. Needless to say, the writers of the Magna Carta didn'thave much familiarity with Internet, or even telephone, television, or telegraph. It occurs to me there may be at least two workarounds for this:
2. Add hooks to provide for a second layer of encryption, enabled by the choice of the user.The company will be able to decrypt, but the result will appear random. Jim Bell
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:09 AM, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
The UK government is able to do this, in part because UK doesn't have a Constitution, merely a Parliament. Needless to say, the writers of the Magna Carta
It occurs to me there may be at least two workarounds for this:
Which will in turn be outlawed by the runaway govt. As will any other game you play with them while they are in control. You have to stop the runaway govt, not the crypto.
On 11/04/2015 11:18 PM, grarpamp wrote:
Which will in turn be outlawed by the runaway govt. As will any other game you play with them while they are in control. You have to stop the runaway govt, not the crypto.
It WOULD be interesting if the attacker was identified. Which nation would prosecute? A nation with a government that believes in it's citizen's privacy. IOW, no one will prosecute. Governments, in collusion for their common interest, are above their own laws. RR As a series of tweets: https://twitter.com/AuntieImperial/status/662289782525964288 On 11/04/2015 11:18 PM, grarpamp wrote:
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:09 AM, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
The UK government is able to do this, in part because UK doesn't have a Constitution, merely a Parliament. Needless to say, the writers of the Magna Carta It occurs to me there may be at least two workarounds for this: Which will in turn be outlawed by the runaway govt. As will any other game you play with them while they are in control. You have to stop the runaway govt, not the crypto.
On 03.11.15 18:27, grarpamp wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet...
Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable encryption under new laws
3:16PM GMT 02 Nov 2015
Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday. Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose. Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant.
Thinking about connotations of crypto that could be backdoored as protection against terrorism or some similar stupid rhetoric: - ok, lets agree we are going to prohibit crypto... - so every sysop will now return to telnet - all banks are going to send money over telegraph in pure morse code, same apply for telco operators - no GSM encryption ... ... no no... I meant it for ordinary people only. Hmm, and who exactly is that ordinary man or woman? Somebody who do not have web page, bank account, never used cell phone? How somebody could logically ban something that we all are using everyday? Back to that terrorist protection logic: in case we will agree that normal ordinary people are suspect to be terrorist does it mean that sysop or banker is not suspected same when we allow to use them strong crypto? And one last point that can help as to prove whole nonsense: do we want to give our imaginary terrorist power to read complete communication of all of us "ordinary people"? IMHO during 2WW there was logic: not to tell enemy single word. So lets reverse this anti-terrorist "logic": We need strong cryptography in public domain just to protect us ordinary people against potential terrorist spying. Regards, - Over -- “Borders I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people.” ― Thor Heyerdahl Telegram...................@over23 facebook...................facebook.com/overdrive23 projects...................https://brmlab.cz/user/overdrive twitter....................https://twitter.com/#!/over2393 last.fm....................http://www.last.fm/user/overdrive23 GnuPG key FingerPrint......08EA E4DC EF85 0F02 9267 5B48 2E58 6902 C5F8 794C Public key ................http://overdrive.dronezone.eu/overdrive.txt
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Tomas Overdrive Petru <tpetru@gmail.com> wrote:
Thinking about connotations of crypto that could be backdoored as protection against terrorism or some similar stupid rhetoric:
- so every sysop will now return to telnet
Doesn't apply to govt sysops. Notice how the rhetoric is also not directed at businesses internally (they're partners), only to what end users are using.
- all banks are going to send money over telegraph in pure morse code,
No, they're protected crony class.
same apply for telco operators - no GSM encryption
As are telcos, and GSM is moot, they have the voice anyway.
... no no... I meant it for ordinary people only. Hmm, and who exactly is that ordinary man or woman? Somebody who do not have web page, bank account, never used cell phone?
Yes, because they have free time to think, beyond work (taxes) and TV (programming).
How somebody could logically ban something that we all are using everyday?
Ever hear of book burning? Censorship? Murder? Theft? Etc? It's really popular with out of control govt and corp entities.
And one last point that can help as to prove whole nonsense: do we want to give our imaginary terrorist power to read complete communication of all of us "ordinary people"?
The people are not their real targets, only pawns, thus they don't care to read their stuff. They're also often not really enemies of each other.
IMHO during 2WW there was logic: not to tell enemy single word. So lets reverse this anti-terrorist "logic": We need strong cryptography in public domain just to protect us ordinary people against potential terrorist spying.
True, but it's not going to fly as an argument, because the govt will just tell you that's not your role, *they* will protect you from everything, now to go back to your TV. There's an invite-only cabal of oligarchic dynastic old cronies in place in governments and mega corporations. Yes, the occaisional motivated group of attackers "terrists" can cause them and the populace temporary / containable harm (911 was a joke, the US should have just rebuilt the buildings identically as a "fuck you" and moved on, but instead its govt...). Anyway, what they really fear is that the populace as a whole will wake up and rise up against their needless structure, excess, and quiet enslavement. The real reason they want to spy is to see, regarding them, what you're thinking and up to, so they can head you off and remain in power. This is exactly what all governments in history have done, and the end is showing no signs of being any different. Just more and more power, all to them, none for you, until... invasion or revolt. Pretty sad eh?
On 10.11.15 7:29, grarpamp wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Tomas Overdrive Petru <tpetru@gmail.com> wrote:
Thinking about connotations of crypto that could be backdoored as protection against terrorism or some similar stupid rhetoric: - so every sysop will now return to telnet Doesn't apply to govt sysops. Notice how the rhetoric is also not directed at businesses internally (they're partners), only to what end users are using.
- all banks are going to send money over telegraph in pure morse code, No, they're protected crony class.
same apply for telco operators - no GSM encryption As are telcos, and GSM is moot, they have the voice anyway.
... no no... I meant it for ordinary people only. Hmm, and who exactly is that ordinary man or woman? Somebody who do not have web page, bank account, never used cell phone? Yes, because they have free time to think, beyond work (taxes) and TV (programming).
How somebody could logically ban something that we all are using everyday? Ever hear of book burning? Censorship? Murder? Theft? Etc? It's really popular with out of control govt and corp entities.
And one last point that can help as to prove whole nonsense: do we want to give our imaginary terrorist power to read complete communication of all of us "ordinary people"? The people are not their real targets, only pawns, thus they don't care to read their stuff. They're also often not really enemies of each other.
IMHO during 2WW there was logic: not to tell enemy single word. So lets reverse this anti-terrorist "logic": We need strong cryptography in public domain just to protect us ordinary people against potential terrorist spying. True, but it's not going to fly as an argument, because the govt will just tell you that's not your role, *they* will protect you from everything, now to go back to your TV.
There's an invite-only cabal of oligarchic dynastic old cronies in place in governments and mega corporations. Yes, the occaisional motivated group of attackers "terrists" can cause them and the populace temporary / containable harm (911 was a joke, the US should have just rebuilt the buildings identically as a "fuck you" and moved on, but instead its govt...). Anyway, what they really fear is that the populace as a whole will wake up and rise up against their needless structure, excess, and quiet enslavement. The real reason they want to spy is to see, regarding them, what you're thinking and up to, so they can head you off and remain in power. This is exactly what all governments in history have done, and the end is showing no signs of being any different. Just more and more power, all to them, none for you, until... invasion or revolt. Pretty sad eh?
This debate is little bit over edge because of its explicitly political. Thing is that I do not believe that in democratic country government is something more or other than ordinary people [in totalitarianism country it is little bit different because than government is usually bunch of mass murders]. What is my point? Discussion and strong arguments even smart propaganda can change a lot. I've met our first democratic president Vaclav Havel and I tend to meet politics during or ofter some civic actions, I have right to care and right to discuss things with politics. I could even be one of them and there are just people. They do not know, they do not understand, they are afraid of ask... as most or all of us. We already know that governments will not disappear. That idea is strongly decentralized and have a lot of side control mechanisms. So we should count with government same as criminality, drugs, police, military or violence against woman. It is just here and we should be prepared not to attack [to read about German RAF could be interesting, because terrorist managed to be government for some time, or at least change its decisions, but do we really pour oil in fire of brutality, is that really needed?]. So think about governments as about "ordinary people" most of em' will never be able to sign their email and most of them never used ssh. That is part of our work, to show them why my argument *fly*, how much cryptography is needed to have at least some way stable society without basic holes. I do not care about *system* anymore I care about society and I do love word citizen. That is what my parents where fighting for during velvet revolution. Regards, - Over -- “Borders I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people.” ― Thor Heyerdahl Telegram...................@over23 facebook...................facebook.com/overdrive23 projects...................https://brmlab.cz/user/overdrive twitter....................https://twitter.com/#!/over2393 last.fm....................http://www.last.fm/user/overdrive23 GnuPG key FingerPrint......08EA E4DC EF85 0F02 9267 5B48 2E58 6902 C5F8 794C Public key ................http://overdrive.dronezone.eu/overdrive.txt
On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 09:07:57 +0100 Tomas Overdrive Petru <tpetru@gmail.com> wrote:
This debate is little bit over edge because of its explicitly political. Thing is that I do not believe that in democratic country government is something more or other than ordinary people
Should I buy a TV and start watching TV?
What is my point? Discussion and strong arguments even smart propaganda can change a lot. I've met our first democratic president Vaclav Havel and I tend to meet politics during or ofter some civic actions,
Not an encouraging sign.
I have right to care and right to discuss things with politics. I could even be one of them and there are just people. They do not know, they do not understand, they are afraid of ask
Awww, poor, little, sacks of shit...
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Tomas Overdrive Petru <tpetru@gmail.com> wrote:
Thing is that I do not believe that in democratic country government is something more or other than ordinary people
Then there is no reason for elections or politics. Just fire all current officeholders and rewrite constitutions to select term limited replacements at random from the entire population. Elections and parties are just a TV show, that's why they're on TV and promoted like the WWF.
"UK To Ban Crypto In Devices, Email And More" So, as a result of the snowden affair and all the work done by privacy advocates, the uk gov't is taking even more steps to track its subjects/human cattle? Am I missing something?
On 11/10/2015 11:48 AM, Juan wrote:
"UK To Ban Crypto In Devices, Email And More"
So, as a result of the snowden affair and all the work done by privacy advocates, the uk gov't is taking even more steps to track its subjects/human cattle?
Am I missing something?
Don't know if you're 'missing something' but the UK is 'missing' a 'bill of rights'. UK citizens have no inalienable right to privacy, even in the form of empty words. RR
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Razer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
Don't know if you're 'missing something' but the UK is 'missing' a 'bill of rights'.
UK citizens have no inalienable right to privacy, even in the form of empty words.
Take just one element of any supposed bill, "[inalienable right to] privacy". Now list which countries by name that have such words on paper today? How did they get them enshrined? How do they keep them? Are they actually followed? What will it take to disembowel them? How long, and how, will it take those who don't have them to get them? Then repeat analysis for any presumably "inalienable" right. Homework is due on Friday.
On 10.11.15 20:16, grarpamp wrote:
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Tomas Overdrive Petru <tpetru@gmail.com> wrote:
Thing is that I do not believe that in democratic country government is something more or other than ordinary people Then there is no reason for elections or politics. Just fire all current officeholders and rewrite constitutions to select term limited replacements at random from the entire population. Elections and parties are just a TV show, that's why they're on TV and promoted like the WWF.
Problem is that politics are similar as cryptographers: only some people care about that role in their life. Would you go to government in case elected? I have seen success of Pirate Party at Prague but none of hackers really wanted to work in town-hall after that. - Over -- “Borders I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people.” ― Thor Heyerdahl Telegram...................@over23 facebook...................facebook.com/overdrive23 projects...................https://brmlab.cz/user/overdrive twitter....................https://twitter.com/#!/over2393 last.fm....................http://www.last.fm/user/overdrive23 GnuPG key FingerPrint......08EA E4DC EF85 0F02 9267 5B48 2E58 6902 C5F8 794C Public key ................http://overdrive.dronezone.eu/overdrive.txt
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 2:55 AM, Tomas Overdrive Petru <tpetru@gmail.com> wrote:
Problem is that politics are similar as cryptographers: only some people care about that role in their life. Would you go to government in case elected?
They can go downvote everything, smoke weed, work crypto, and inject whatever they care about... being random selection, that's representative too. Certainly no worse than the level of care given by some in existing governments. As a culture, selected people should be paid to go, free to return to where they left upon term limits, etc. Such that conscious objectors would be the only ones not there. Certainly other things they'd think about... remaining independant, serving the people, etc. Who knows what makes people go or not go.
I have seen success of Pirate Party at Prague but none of hackers really wanted to work in town-hall after that.
Get in, fix some problem at hand, leave. That's not bad either.
Just fire all current officeholders and rewrite constitutions to select term limited replacements at random from the entire population.
I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University. -- William F. Buckley, 1965
participants (7)
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dan＠geer.org -
grarpamp -
jim bell -
Juan -
Razer -
The Doctor -
Tomas Overdrive Petru