Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock
http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/02/federal-court-touch-id-fingerprint/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-pr... https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/1559208/suspect-required-to-unlock... A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give investigators access to data which can be used as evidence against them. The first time this ever happened in a federal case was back in May, following a District Court ruling in 2014. The legal position of forcing suspects to use their fingerprints to unlock devices won't be known with certainty until a case reaches the U.S. Supreme Court, but lower court rulings so far appear to establish a precedent which is at odds with that concerning passcodes. Most constitutional experts appear to believe that the Fifth Amendment prevents a suspect from being compelled to reveal a password or passcode, as this would amount to forced self-incrimination -- though even this isn't certain. Fingerprints, in contrast, have traditionally been viewed as 'real or physical evidence,' meaning that police are entitled to take them without permission.
On July 26, 2016 3:08:25 AM EDT, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/02/federal-court-touch-id-fingerprint/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-pr... https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/1559208/suspect-required-to-unlock...
A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give investigators access to data which can be used as evidence against them. The first time this ever happened in a federal case was back in May, following a District Court ruling in 2014. The legal position of forcing suspects to use their fingerprints to unlock devices won't be known with certainty until a case reaches the U.S. Supreme Court, but lower court rulings so far appear to establish a precedent which is at odds with that concerning passcodes. Most constitutional experts appear to believe that the Fifth Amendment prevents a suspect from being compelled to reveal a password or passcode, as this would amount to forced self-incrimination -- though even this isn't certain. Fingerprints, in contrast, have traditionally been viewed as 'real or physical evidence,' meaning that police are entitled to take them without permission.
Use a long PIN for your encrypted phone. I've abided by this, despite the extreme convenience of the fingerprint scanner, since I first read about the 2014 case you referenced.. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
From: John <jnn@synfin.org> On July 26, 2016 3:08:25 AM EDT, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/02/federal-court-touch-id-fingerprint/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-pr... https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/1559208/suspect-required-to-unlock...
A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give investigators access to data which can be used as evidence against them. [cut] Use a long PIN for your encrypted phone. I've abided by this, despite the extreme convenience of the fingerprint scanner, since I first read about >the 2014 case you referenced.. John
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software, some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being scanned wants to do that. Further, again with additional programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. Jim Bell
On 7/26/16, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data
In particular apply to the standard index / thumb scan, key change to pre stored key subsequently zeroed requiring offline decrypt by owner later. Some unix full disk encryption has concept of any of multiple keys can unlock master key. Whatever, but having reached that point in process, beware charges of evidence destruction, interference, contempt, etc.
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software,
People could do lots of different things...if they owned their phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are owned by apple too, and by the US government.
some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being scanned wants to do that. Further, again with additional programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. Jim Bell
On Tue, 2016-07-26 at 15:35 -0300, juan wrote:
People could do lots of different things...if they owned their phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are owned by apple too, and by the US government.
Not all of them; in fact I think Android has taken the lead over iOS in mobile phones, though I understand if one balks at trusting Google. There is also Windows Phone, though I'm personally not too keen on trusting Microsoft. Anyway, getting back to the topic of the original message: I don't use the fingerprint unlock functionality on my devices for exactly this reason. Fingerprints can't be changed when compromised; passwords can. -- Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com>
On Jul 26, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2016-07-26 at 15:35 -0300, juan wrote:
People could do lots of different things...if they owned their phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are owned by apple too, and by the US government.
Not all of them; in fact I think Android has taken the lead over iOS in mobile phones, though I understand if one balks at trusting Google.
Depending on which phone you have and which ROM you flash onto it, you can get an Android phone that is -mostly- independent of the Google ecosystem - an independent app store (F-droid), firefox as the browser, different mail clients (k-9, etc)…. different EVERYTHING, basically, but the core system for managing the UI, and connecting to networks/making calls/etc. I mean, yes, you are still running google code at the core of the thing - but you can get some distance. E.g. - https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html http://www.xda-developers.com/setting-up-android-marshmallow-without-google/ http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/using-android-without-google/ Over the years I’ve played with dozens of ROMs on a handful of different android phones… its fun screwing around with them. I’ve gotta keep an iPhone for work, and honestly the iPhone 5s looks like a piece of fucking junk compared to my nexus 6. John
From: juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software,
People could do lots of different things...if they owned their phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are owned by apple too, and by the US government. Not MY phone, which is an Android. I have detested Apple ever since the very early 1980s, when they had a nasty legal habit of suing anybody who tried to make an add-on card for the Apple II computer. (Which didn't have a SHIFT key, which is why for a long time you could tell a person on the BBS's had an Apple BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS TYPED IN ALL CAPS!!!). Who forgets to add a shift key? The one really great thing Apple ever did was to choose the Motorola 68000 microprocessor for their Macintosh computer, which had a 24-bit linear memory address space (later increased to 32 bits), unlike the foolish 80X86 series, which had a botch called "segmentation". (Although, I have long maintained that there would be nothing wrong with segmentation, as long as the individual segments could be made as large as any program and/or data that you could ever want to use. The 8086/88 only allowed segments 64Kbytes in length. Sure, later iterations allowed larger segment sizes, but by that point the limitation had been locked into software! A segment size of 4 gigabytes (2**32) would have been just great. Whatever happened to the R4000??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R4000 Jim Bell
On 07/26/2016 12:19 PM, jim bell wrote: The one really great thing Apple ever did was to choose the Motorola 68000 microprocessor Was just discussing my ColorComputer 3 on another thread. It had a 68xx chip and at 4mhz could run Multivue, a GUI based on the Xerox PARC model (written in C... the manual had ALL the code) in a unix-like system (Microware OS9) that could run rings around any PC of the time. Multiple shells, it wasn't necessary to hard code memory locations if you wrote code for it (Relocatable Object Memory) and all. I hung onto it until it became totally obsolete. Rr
*From:* juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com <mailto:jdb10987@yahoo.com>> wrote:
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software,
People could do lots of different things...if they owned their phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are owned by apple too, and by the US government.
Not MY phone, which is an Android. I have detested Apple ever since the very early 1980s, when they had a nasty legal habit of suing anybody who tried to make an add-on card for the Apple II computer. (Which didn't have a SHIFT key, which is why for a long time you could tell a person on the BBS's had an Apple BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS TYPED IN ALL CAPS!!!). Who forgets to add a shift key?
The one really great thing Apple ever did was to choose the Motorola 68000 microprocessor for their Macintosh computer, which had a 24-bit linear memory address space (later increased to 32 bits), unlike the foolish 80X86 series, which had a botch called "segmentation". (Although, I have long maintained that there would be nothing wrong with segmentation, as long as the individual segments could be made as large as any program and/or data that you could ever want to use. The 8086/88 only allowed segments 64Kbytes in length. Sure, later iterations allowed larger segment sizes, but by that point the limitation had been locked into software! A segment size of 4 gigabytes (2**32) would have been just great.
Whatever happened to the R4000??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R4000
Jim Bell
On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:49 PM, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software, some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being scanned wants to do that. Further, again with additional programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. Jim Bell
This would be an amazing addition to cyanogenmod ;) — John
On 07/26/2016 03:01 PM, John Newman wrote:
On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:49 PM, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com <mailto:jdb10987@yahoo.com>> wrote:
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software, some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being scanned wants to do that. Further, again with additional programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. Jim Bell
This would be an amazing addition to cyanogenmod ;)
— John
Give it the middle finger to do a full reset to factory specs! Rr
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 05:49:02PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
From: John <jnn@synfin.org> On July 26, 2016 3:08:25 AM EDT, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/
A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give
Use a long PIN for your encrypted phone. I've abided by this, despite the extreme convenience of the fingerprint scanner, since I first read about >the 2014 case you referenced.. John
There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes
Um ... I think that's called "chopping" with two different axes - but fingers are so small, and axes so sharp (compared with splitters anyhow), that -one- axe is probably enough.
participants (8)
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grarpamp -
jim bell -
John -
John Newman
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juan -
Rayzer -
Shawn K. Quinn -
Zenaan Harkness