“Can the state withstand a full-blown Bitcoin offensive?”
Next silly question https://www.coindesk.com/age-anonymous-crypto For years, topics including anonymity, censorship resistance and decentralization were the purview of political extremists. Armed with a pessimistic, even paranoid outlook, the forefathers of cryptocurrency engineered tools, like Bitcoin, for a world where civilization had fallen.
to state the obvious, the state can destroy bitcoin in 5 minutes, by simply 'passing a law'. Only a complete fucktard, or a government agent(like professor turd) would pretend otherwise.
the state tried hard to fight bitcoin. Some time ago. Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies, during emergencies. This evidenced by the price rising more than wall street can believe exists, on a regular basis. On 1/25/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
to state the obvious, the state can destroy bitcoin in 5 minutes, by simply 'passing a law'.
Only a complete fucktard, or a government agent(like professor turd) would pretend otherwise.
So, yeah! All the cryptographers are indisposed, so I better say: BITCOIN IS NOT ANONYMOUS BUT CRYPTOCURRENCY CAN INDEED BE ANONYMOUS. We need overt and financial support to make that really happen and easy to use.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:43:18 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
BITCOIN IS NOT ANONYMOUS BUT CRYPTOCURRENCY CAN INDEED BE ANONYMOUS.
that's better although the claim 'CRYPTOCURRENCY CAN INDEED BE ANONYMOUS' is still dubious
We need overt and financial support to make that really happen and easy to use.
On 1/25/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:43:18 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
BITCOIN IS NOT ANONYMOUS BUT CRYPTOCURRENCY CAN INDEED BE ANONYMOUS.
that's better although the claim 'CRYPTOCURRENCY CAN INDEED BE ANONYMOUS' is still dubious
It's a research war between anonymity and deanonymisation. Both of these problems are solvable, but we don't want to get to the point that either solution is truly discovered or widely used. We need to reduce surveillance research. Maybe that means not threatening it, to stop stimulating the desire for it, and acting in line with it to prevent it.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:41:33 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
the state tried hard to fight bitcoin. Some time ago.
that is completely false. If anything the state encourages the use of bitcoin given the fact that bitcoin is a fucking privacy nightmare (for users of course)
Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies, during emergencies.
you should kill your enemies, not work with them.
This evidenced by the price rising more than wall street can believe exists, on a regular basis.
.... I think you should stop with the completely baseless 'techn-optimism' unless your aim is of course to spread misinformation.
On 1/25/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:41:33 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
the state tried hard to fight bitcoin. Some time ago.
that is completely false. If anything the state encourages the use of bitcoin given the fact that bitcoin is a fucking privacy nightmare (for users of course)
well, although 1/3rd or so of the countries at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory describe cryptocurrency as illegal in some way, and the fact that the privacy guarantees around cryptocurrency are not clear could be seen as another attack on it, i have two things to say: you know what? you're right. bitcoin is waste of time and a dangerous secret weapon. I wonder what people do to preserve exotic data without it. i bet there are a lot of ways. but also you know what? i really don't care about privacy. i need cryptographic exchange to _reveal_ the _horrific_atrocities_ our leaders are stimulating. we have cash for privacy. but if you're not aware, the way to be private online is to not associate things with yourself. jacob appelbaum talked about this a lot. how are you doing punk
Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies, during emergencies.
you should kill your enemies, not work with them.
funny whenever i do that i get more, notably among their immediate family. i don't like having enemies, do you?
This evidenced by the price rising more than wall street can believe exists, on a regular basis.
....
sounds like you need a link here. Here's a news article. It says "Bitcoin drops 13%" https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-suddenly-drops-13-as-altcoins-continue-to-r... Here's another article, also on Bitcoin. It says "Dec 2020, giving it a year-to-date increase of 224%" https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/121815/bitcoins-price-history.asp#:~:text=Bitcoin's%20price%20reached%20a%20peak,500%2C000%25%20on%20the%20Bitstamp%20exchange. Which of those two factoids are you used to hearing? Meanwhile, go to a bank and get an interest rate that is less than 1% annual return, here in the USA. Last year Bitcoin had over one hundred times the return of a normal investment account.
I think you should stop with the completely baseless 'techn-optimism' unless your aim is of course to spread misinformation.
I'm trying to stimulate an apocalypse where all the worst stuff happens ever =( I need to talk with somebody who doesn't like technology _or_ conflict, but I like you.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:25:57 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
you know what? you're right. bitcoin is waste of time and a dangerous secret weapon. I wonder what people do to preserve exotic data without it. i bet there are a lot of ways.
bitcoin has at least one property that's unconditionally good : the supply is limited and the supply can't be manipulated. That's a fundamental requirement for any kind of 'money'. For the time being bitcoin is 'permisionless' and that's good as well. HOWEVER given the weak anonimity of bitcoin, the permisionless/censorship resistance aspect of it is kinda dubious in the long term. Also, ultimately, bitcoin can't work as money if it's not 'fungible' (and fungibility requires bitcoin to be untraceable/anonymous)
what people do to preserve exotic data
preserving 'exotic data' is not the purpose of bitcoin, sorry. Bitcoin is (supposed to be) a cryptocurrency, not a file system.
but also you know what? i really don't care about privacy.
well now you're talking =) If you don't care about privacy feel free to publish your private keys.
i need cryptographic exchange to _reveal_ the _horrific_atrocities_ our leaders are stimulating.
that's pretty misguided. We need surveillance for govcorp criminals and privacy for common people. The opposite of what we have now.
we have cash for privacy.
agreed. Physical cash is superior to anything computer based. But we don't actually have decent cash. We have pseudo money printed by govcorp (and it's being 'outlawed' as we speak)
but if you're not aware, the way to be private online is to not associate things with yourself. jacob appelbaum talked about this a lot.
how are you doing punk
the way to be private online is to not be online.
Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies, during emergencies.
you should kill your enemies, not work with them.
funny whenever i do that i get more, notably among their immediate family. i don't like having enemies, do you?
some people deserve to be killed.
This evidenced by the price rising more than wall street can believe exists, on a regular basis.
....
sounds like you need a link here.
Last year Bitcoin had over one hundred times the return of a normal investment account.
I'm familiar with the price of bitcoin since it was $0.10 or so. The question is, what do you think the current high price of bitcoin proves?
I think you should stop with the completely baseless 'techn-optimism' unless your aim is of course to spread misinformation.
I'm trying to stimulate an apocalypse where all the worst stuff happens ever =(
I need to talk with somebody who doesn't like technology _or_ conflict, but I like you.
I don't like conflict per se. It's just that I don't ignore all the conflict around me.
On 1/25/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:25:57 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
you know what? you're right. bitcoin is waste of time and a dangerous secret weapon. I wonder what people do to preserve exotic data without it. i bet there are a lot of ways.
bitcoin has at least one property that's unconditionally good : the supply is limited and the supply can't be manipulated. That's a fundamental requirement for any kind of 'money'.
Okay, so Karl does things that people say make people hurt you ... and Punk says things that are in disagreement with what he's replying to ... this is incredibly hard to remember and act on, like really really hard to remember and act on ...
For the time being bitcoin is 'permisionless' and that's good as well. HOWEVER given the weak anonimity of bitcoin, the permisionless/censorship resistance aspect of it is kinda dubious in the long term. Also, ultimately, bitcoin can't work as money if it's not 'fungible' (and fungibility requires bitcoin to be untraceable/anonymous)
i wonder if some silent actors are prolonging some of bitcoin's attributes behind different scenes like, sending a lot of anti-cryptocurrency messaging prevents as much experienced cronyism from developing as rapidly, as people who trust the messaging avoid the currency.
what people do to preserve exotic data
preserving 'exotic data' is not the purpose of bitcoin, sorry. Bitcoin is (supposed to be) a cryptocurrency, not a file system.
oh yeah and the point of fighting is to win, of course.
but also you know what? i really don't care about privacy.
well now you're talking =) If you don't care about privacy feel free to publish your private keys.
i do that already, juan. i did keep the one with coderman "private" but if coderman consents i'm interested in publishde it. it has more value unpublished. and i have a broken device with some old keys on it that i'd love to extract =/
i need cryptographic exchange to _reveal_ the _horrific_atrocities_ our leaders are stimulating.
that's pretty misguided. We need surveillance for govcorp criminals and privacy for common people. The opposite of what we have now.
we agree there. immutable storage aids in surveilliing govcorp, because they can no longer rubberhose things away.
we have cash for privacy.
agreed. Physical cash is superior to anything computer based. But we don't actually have decent cash. We have pseudo money printed by govcorp (and it's being 'outlawed' as we speak)
real cash is obviously wise behavior. death is our limited supply.
but if you're not aware, the way to be private online is to not associate things with yourself. jacob appelbaum talked about this a lot.
how are you doing punk
the way to be private online is to not be online.
the way to not die a teenager is to not be online ;p imagine your whole brain atrophying until all it understands is a bright rectangle all your best dreams, are the things you could be feeling all day if you hadn't learned to sit in a chair. but yeah online is a cool escape avenue for people enslaved by chairs or violence on the internet in the 90s a lot of nerds were people with broken family lives, who had online lives because there were no living ones around them.
Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies, during emergencies.
you should kill your enemies, not work with them.
funny whenever i do that i get more, notably among their immediate family. i don't like having enemies, do you?
some people deserve to be killed.
such as people who kill. that cycle's important, but that's not my culture. it feels way more right to me to permanently prevent the problem, than to kill the people who participated in it. the killing is just a way to make the ongoing issue more intense. things are already too intense. what do you think of those of us, who feel like we are our enemies, and feel viscerally any harm we see ourselves causing? this pattern is everywhere.
This evidenced by the price rising more than wall street can believe exists, on a regular basis.
....
sounds like you need a link here.
Last year Bitcoin had over one hundred times the return of a normal investment account.
I'm familiar with the price of bitcoin since it was $0.10 or so. The question is, what do you think the current high price of bitcoin proves?
I don't remember my quote is gone ;P Okay, I scrolled up! Yay! The point is that by manipulating culture to discourage cryptocurrency it is becoming a really big thing. It is starting to break the global economy because the global economy feared it.
I think you should stop with the completely baseless 'techn-optimism' unless your aim is of course to spread misinformation.
I'm trying to stimulate an apocalypse where all the worst stuff happens ever =(
I need to talk with somebody who doesn't like technology _or_ conflict, but I like you.
I don't like conflict per se. It's just that I don't ignore all the conflict around me.
Any thoughts on reducing vs amplifying it?
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:48:38 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/25/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:25:57 -0500 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
you know what? you're right. bitcoin is waste of time and a dangerous secret weapon. I wonder what people do to preserve exotic data without it. i bet there are a lot of ways.
bitcoin has at least one property that's unconditionally good : the supply is limited and the supply can't be manipulated. That's a fundamental requirement for any kind of 'money'.
Okay, so Karl does things that people say make people hurt you ... and Punk says things that are in disagreement with what he's replying to ... this is incredibly hard to remember and act on, like really really hard to remember and act on ...
That's kinda cryptic. I'm making the uncontroversial claim that bitcoin is supposed to be some kind of money...while you seem to believe that bitcoin is something else?
For the time being bitcoin is 'permisionless' and that's good as well. HOWEVER given the weak anonimity of bitcoin, the permisionless/censorship resistance aspect of it is kinda dubious in the long term. Also, ultimately, bitcoin can't work as money if it's not 'fungible' (and fungibility requires bitcoin to be untraceable/anonymous)
i wonder if some silent actors are prolonging some of bitcoin's attributes behind different scenes
That's cryptic too. What do you mean by "prolonging some of bitcoin's attributes" ?
like, sending a lot of anti-cryptocurrency messaging prevents as much experienced cronyism from developing as rapidly, as people who trust the messaging avoid the currency.
Not sure what you're getting at with that comment either.
what people do to preserve exotic data
preserving 'exotic data' is not the purpose of bitcoin, sorry. Bitcoin is (supposed to be) a cryptocurrency, not a file system.
oh yeah and the point of fighting is to win, of course.
except in cases where people fight for entertainment's sake? Or something.
but also you know what? i really don't care about privacy.
well now you're talking =) If you don't care about privacy feel free to publish your private keys.
i do that already, juan.
you want to sign messages but then publish the private key? What's the point of signing then? I don't think I follow...
i did keep the one with coderman "private" but if coderman consents i'm interested in publishde it. it has more value unpublished. and i have a broken device with some old keys on it that i'd love to extract =/
i need cryptographic exchange to _reveal_ the _horrific_atrocities_ our leaders are stimulating.
that's pretty misguided. We need surveillance for govcorp criminals and privacy for common people. The opposite of what we have now.
we agree there.
immutable storage aids in surveilliing govcorp, because they can no longer rubberhose things away.
yeah. But it can also be used to store bad stuff. .
Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies, during emergencies.
you should kill your enemies, not work with them.
funny whenever i do that i get more, notably among their immediate family. i don't like having enemies, do you?
some people deserve to be killed.
such as people who kill. that cycle's important, but that's not my culture. it feels way more right to me to permanently prevent the problem, than to kill the people who participated in it.
well, if you can prevent the criminals from being criminals that's great.
the killing is just a way to make the ongoing issue more intense. things are already too intense.
but things are completely one-sided. It's time to start killing *them*.
what do you think of those of us, who feel like we are our enemies, and feel viscerally any harm we see ourselves causing? this pattern is everywhere.
Not sure what 'we are our enemies' means, because I'm not sure who 'we' is.
Last year Bitcoin had over one hundred times the return of a normal investment account.
I'm familiar with the price of bitcoin since it was $0.10 or so. The question is, what do you think the current high price of bitcoin proves?
I don't remember my quote is gone ;P
Okay, I scrolled up! Yay!
The point is that by manipulating culture to discourage cryptocurrency it is becoming a really big thing. It is starting to break the global economy because the global economy feared it.
I don't know. The global economy has always been rather broken. But if by 'breaking the economy' you mean decreasing the power of govcorp, then I don't think I'm seeing much evidence for that.
I don't like conflict per se. It's just that I don't ignore all the conflict around me.
Any thoughts on reducing vs amplifying it?
conflict won't go away until humanity is exterminated, or tyrants are exterminated...The former seems more likely than the latter for the time being...
participants (3)
-
Karl -
professor rat -
Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0