Fwd: Re: France - sadly not a friend of principle or truth
Again I say, Russian president Putin is close to the only true statesmen on the world stage today.
Zenaan, *there is no country except Russia that is a friend to the Truth*. Not only France. And i say so not because i am russian at all, believe me. Even the Chinese/Indian/Belorussian/Argentinian... who declare (sometimes) some speeches that are friendly to Russia/to the Truth - are no more than hypocritical dogs. Because when there is some kind of pressure/exam... you NEVER see them.
For example, look now with the destroyed jet/look with the "Ukraine case" - was there any truly *unambiguous* and *consistent* country FOR the Truth?!
Money/other benefits is everybody's only interest. No moral values. No standing for the Truth. Except Putin
Confusing the absolute "truth" with "moral values" would indeed pose a tricky dilemma in the situation of Vladimir Putin. If you consider Putin to be unilaterally upholding the truth whilst at the same time upholding moral values, such a position would be rapidly contradicted when comparing Putin's attitude towards the right of LGBT people to exist to that of the West, considering of course that by "moral values", Putin indeed upholds basic human rights. Indeed, the torture and killings perpetrated by Putin's lower levels of government and covered from up high, a fact of life that comes with having been a member of the soviet union, must definitely reflect upon Putin's willingness to publicize the truth, whether it would be in his country's (capitalist) interest. Furthermore, Putin's involvement against ISIS (or Daesh, for those who prefer it) is but another part of Putin's manipulation for influence in the middle east, tying in with involvement in Ukraine, games with NATO and economic sanctions placed against Russia by the western world. I strongly doubt that Putin's actions are not motivated by money and the so-called "benefits" that come with setting up a slew of back room agreements between countries. Instead, agreements promoting corruption and the oppression of free speech are mainly set up with non-western countries, reducing the ability for western media to catch a hold of them and call Putin out, a result of the more secretive systems of government that tend to exist in the East.
It is so sad to me that most of the Western world today is, evidently, so utterly compromised
Although the problem of political corruption and the utter inability of any political party to avoid completely sacrificing any hope of measly integrity is primarily associated with the West, Eastern governments are not exempt. It is not that such problems are isolated to a particular section of the world, but instead cover the globe itself.
I can only hope that future Russian presidents sustain such a level of integrity and commitment to national interests and his/her own people, as he does.
Me too, my friend. And it is very important to understand, that Putin is not committed ONLY to the Russian's national interests, *but to the interests of all the **(sane) people of the whole world.*
Oh yes, considering that the citizens of South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Crimea are not Putin's own people. Given Putin's partial invasion of Georgia and the Ukraine, it would be ludicrous to believe that he is acting in the interests of the Georgian and Ukrainian people. Russia's actions, although in his eyes quite likely reflect an act of protection by Russia, are solely motivated by economic or military reasoning, furthering Russia's troublesome influence in an already unstable region. It must be kept in mind that although Russia may have a tendency to cut through the grime that obscures Western policy making, Russia (and thereby Vladimir Putin) is not exempt from the corruption evident in today's world by cause of modern capitalist and nationalistic sentiment. I truly hope that the belief that Putin is an "unambiguous and consistent friend to the truth" is but pure satire, intended to spark a lively debate. All the best, Endless
On 11/28/15, Endless <3ndless@riseup.net> wrote:
I can only hope that future Russian presidents sustain such a level of integrity and commitment to national interests and his/her own people, as he does.
Me too, my friend. And it is very important to understand, that Putin is not committed ONLY to the Russian's national interests, *but to the interests of all the **(sane) people of the whole world.*
Oh yes, considering that the citizens of South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Crimea are not Putin's own people.
"the citizens of ... Crimea are not Putin's own people" - this position is too broad, and too unqualified to be factual or useful.
Given Putin's partial invasion of Georgia and the Ukraine, it would be
"invasion" of Ukarine? Again, you'll need to qualify that assertion in order to sustain it. For example, Russia protecting the safety of the people in the running of a referendum in Crimea, without a shot fired and without a single person killed by the so-called 'invasion', in an area which is 80%+ Russian speaking, and where the majority of people turned out to vote (in stressful circumstances) and where the vast majority of those voting, voted to secede from Ukraine and reunite with Russia - facilitating the expression of the will of the people is an example of something we in the West might consider to be democratic. I -wish- for such respect for the will of the people here in Australia for example! Yes accept that this referendum was in the economic and/ or military interest of Russia, and that we are unlikely to see a repeat of such an event. Still, it's a very classy thing for Russia to have done, politically... and very far from an "invasion". The elite in my home country Australia for example, are afraid of the people. Last year one of our federal politicians used the implementation of direct democracy as a threat. We have been disarmed after Port Arthur. We are treated as sheep by our media.
ludicrous to believe that he is acting in the interests of the Georgian and Ukrainian people.
It is ludicrous to conflate all Ukrainian, or all Geogian, people as though they are homogeneous. Surely we can do better than this in our discussion.
Russia's actions, although in his eyes quite likely reflect an act of protection by Russia, are solely motivated by economic or military reasoning,
So we could say he is acting in the interests of Russia and the Russian people, including certain Russians living outside of Russia where used to be part of the USSR?
furthering Russia's troublesome influence in an already unstable region.
Please. This is a generalised Western media created viewpoint. There is no nuance, no specificity, just the steretypical "Russia bad" meme ("Russia's troublesome influence"). We can do better than this. For a start, let's not paper of Azov battalion and the many faceted Nazi revival in what seems to be your beloved/ beleaguered "Ukraine". For some first hand experiences, check out the "little hiroshima" series of blog posts/ first hand eyewitness reports from Ukraine. Is it possible that, for a semblence of an "objective" "understanding" of the situation in Ukraine, we might need to broaden our diet beyond the Western media? We can do better. For the sake of sanity, we MUST do better, or we shall be hypocrites to our own higher ideals.
It must be kept in mind that although Russia may have a tendency to cut through the grime that obscures Western policy making, Russia (and thereby Vladimir Putin) is not exempt from the corruption evident in today's world by cause of modern capitalist and nationalistic sentiment.
If you said "not exempt from the potential for corruption in his ranks", then I could agree with you. But when you make an allegation against an individual, in this case Russia's president Vladimir Putin, that he is "not exempt from corruption", then for a semblence of intellectual honesty, at least ONE fact of his alleged corruption must be presented. Put up or shut up! (Note, I'm not saying he's not (I am not him, I don't know his mind and every action), and I am saying I seriously doubt he is personally corrupt (his words match his actions match his words), but importantly, I am saying it is not useful to bandy around baseless allegations - that is reducing our selves to the level of the Western media, and not in our interest, and not in the interests of the peoples of the world.)
I truly hope that the belief that Putin is an "unambiguous and consistent friend to the truth" is but pure satire, intended to spark a lively debate.
Lively debate can be a good thing :) Zenaan
On 11/28/15, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
Last year one of our federal politicians used the implementation of direct democracy as a threat.
A threat against another politician/ political party. Sorry for confusion Zenaan
DAMN! Could have SWORN I sent this unencrypted! NOt sure Seamonkeymail is playing nice with enigmail Endless wrote:
such a position would be rapidly contradicted when comparing Putin's attitude towards the right of LGBT people to exist
I want to shut this line of reasoning down once and for all (I know... good luck!) Vladimir Putin could really give a flying fuck who one fucks. No one in Russia really does, and making table conversation out of one's sexual preferences is a uniquely 'Merican phenome. Last week some guy at my favorite coffee shop, who I barely know, started telling me, at SEVEN AM, about the transgendered person he met last night and how sex with the TG was a whole new... Get the picture? TMI! I couldn't shut the guy up until I literally started screaming at him, bringing the verbal altercation to the attention of a not-amused barista. Russia is making laws about discussing LGBT, if indeed the law even does that (can't tell by US reporting of the issue), because THE ONLY PEOPLE who would care to do so ... are people with AGENDAS. Ie. George Soros' color-rev bffs. A while back I read an article about a LGBT nightclub in St Petersburg that was thrashed by an alleged anti-gay 'wrecking crew'. The bar owner said, and I quote, "They weren't from around here". Right. There's your 'color revolutionary' CIA team at work doing some perception management. RR Ps. The US military is DESPERATE for soldiers, and if you gay and stupid, and have no morals or ethics, YOU can be "Liberated" and join the murder machine. A good number of war stories I've read recently in the US media pander to how gay people are being oppressed in X country we're on the verge of war with, so put down the butt plug boy, and enlist!
On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:27:14 -0800 Rayzer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
DAMN! Could have SWORN I sent this unencrypted! NOt sure Seamonkeymail is playing nice with enigmail
Endless wrote:
such a position would be rapidly contradicted when comparing Putin's attitude towards the right of LGBT people to exist
I want to shut this line of reasoning down once and for all (I know... good luck!)
Vladimir Putin could really give a flying fuck who one fucks. No one in Russia really does, and making table conversation out of one's sexual preferences is a uniquely 'Merican phenome.
I was about to mention that in the 'liberal', 'progressive', morally perfect, puritan, jew-christain 'west', homosexuals have been second class subjects for a looong time, AND, for instance, according to the masters of the universe, 'sodomy' was a 'crime' until a few years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States
Last week some guy at my favorite coffee shop, who I barely know, started telling me, at SEVEN AM, about the transgendered person he met last night and how sex with the TG was a whole new... Get the picture? TMI! I couldn't shut the guy up until I literally started screaming at him, bringing the verbal altercation to the attention of a not-amused barista.
Russia is making laws about discussing LGBT, if indeed the law even does that (can't tell by US reporting of the issue), because THE ONLY PEOPLE who would care to do so ... are people with AGENDAS. Ie. George Soros' color-rev bffs. A while back I read an article about a LGBT nightclub in St Petersburg that was thrashed by an alleged anti-gay 'wrecking crew'. The bar owner said, and I quote, "They weren't from around here". Right. There's your 'color revolutionary' CIA team at work doing some perception management.
RR
Ps. The US military is DESPERATE for soldiers, and if you gay and stupid, and have no morals or ethics, YOU can be "Liberated" and join the murder machine.
Pretty Good Point. A good number of war stories I've read recently in
the US media pander to how gay people are being oppressed in X country we're on the verge of war with, so put down the butt plug boy, and enlist!
Dnia sobota, 28 listopada 2015 10:27:14 Rayzer pisze:
Russia is making laws about discussing LGBT, if indeed the law even does that (can't tell by US reporting of the issue), because THE ONLY PEOPLE who would care to do so ... are people with AGENDAS.
I'm just going to assume from now on that the only people who defend Putin's actions ... are people with AGENDAS. Might as well, there's no chance of having an intelligent discussion about any of this afterall. -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
participants (5)
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Endless -
juan -
Rayzer -
rysiek -
Zenaan Harkness