This one got lost to the wrong reply button, and I have an addition now too... On 1/17/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

On 1/17/16, coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 1/15/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

...

... I guess that's the ultimate propaganda success really - not being aware that your country is always at war, and pretty much always has been. War is the ultimate rejection and domination of the sovereignty of other nations and individuals.

next question: can you have nation states without war?

That would require a truly benevolent 'dictator' at the top ... Gandhi when prime minister of India was shot by one of his own security guards, the Israeli prime minister who got in on a "peace with Palestinians" platform some years back got shot (by an Israeli), the only two US presidents who (attempted to) print greenbacks rather than borrow from the banks (i.e. reclaim the government's constitutional money power), got shot, ...

the odds for such leaders don't look so good...

On the other hand, Iceland has jailed at least 26 bankers so far: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iceland-has-jailed-26-bankers-why-wont-w...

so perhaps there's hope... they ousted two full parliaments to get there though, to full new elections and finally a year(?) long population-wide new constitution creation which on the face of it appears to be genuinely by the people themselves, and also clearly -for- themselves, having rejected any bail-in or bail-out for the failed commercial private banks that brought that country to its financial knees.

Seems a genuinely community-based groundswell is needed for genuinely 'good' change, if nothing else...

In iceland, some portion of mortgage debts were forgiven also: "Reports from 2012 (many of which were written by U.S. media outlets) noted that while Iceland forgave a large amount of mortgage debt in order to boost the economy's recovery from a financial crisis, this action did not entail entirely wiping out all home mortgages held by all citizens of Iceland. Rather, it involved forgiving a portion of some mortgage debt that was tied to inflation:" http://www.snopes.com/iceland-debt-forgiveness/ Sad thing is, a great story got bullshitted by sensationalist crap news, and so Snopes has a field day saying how false it all is, although they do provide the above quoted paragraph to their credit.