http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/ That the notion of "a majority of Bitcoin nodes" is void of content, That a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour, so as to ensure themselves a (significant) advantage over any would-be competitors. That neither above item makes sense or could long survive without the other
grarpamp wrote:
http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/
That the notion of "a majority of Bitcoin nodes" is void of content, That a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour, so as to ensure themselves a (significant) advantage over any would-be competitors. That neither above item makes sense or could long survive without the other
Makes sense to anyone not addicted to bitcoin gambling. -- RR "What the world needs now is a new mythical 'currency' like I need a hole in my head." ~Anonymous Cracker ... This is what he learnt from those euro-trash girlz at Uncle Charlie's Summer Camp <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlrliWrb-HY>
On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 11:16:30 -0800 Rayzer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
grarpamp wrote:
"The only thing that can save Bitcoin, at this point, is completely breaking down the Chinese miner cartel. Which yes, means bricking all their hardware. It's time to do this, not least of all because having this precedent is extremely important for safeguarding Bitcoin in the future. We must show that we ~are~ able to destroy a miner cartel, or else." Damn! The yellow peril. But popescu and his superhero friends will save the world or at least bitcoin, by 'bricking' the yellow hardware...
On 3/3/16, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
grarpamp wrote:
"The only thing that can save Bitcoin, at this point, is completely breaking down the Chinese miner cartel. Which yes, means bricking all their hardware. It's time to do this, not least of all because having this precedent is extremely important for safeguarding Bitcoin in the future. We must show that we ~are~ able to destroy a miner cartel, or else."
Damn! The yellow peril. But popescu and his superhero friends will save the world or at least bitcoin, by 'bricking' the yellow hardware...
Flag days are completely rational in bitcoin network exactly the same and entirely rational as the banking network has roughly 8-16 hours in a night to flag change their junk. Especially since bitcoin and any other digital currency offers a new paradigm of expectation to follow. Software updates is one of those things to expects. Bricking through change is a great defensive idea if needed, however unfortunately it applies to all miners, clients, etc that currently exist following the protocol. Therefore the only way to break self interested cartels is for the end user community to get together, realize there is a real problem, and act to solve it. Seemingly in this case, to openly design sell distribute open high performance mining hardware under legally enforced open sales records contract models at scale exclusively to distributed end users at cost. Communities of digital currencies will wake up to this when they see their assets / dreams being pushed to zero by such cartel influences. After all, that action is the supposed model of these decentral digital currencies. Right about now would be a good time to wake up. Amazed there isn't already an AP price on some heads. And that Satoshi may be laughing rather than speaking in all this bullshit.
On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 11:45:47AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/
That the notion of "a majority of Bitcoin nodes" is void of content, That a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour, so as to ensure themselves a (significant) advantage over any would-be competitors. That neither above item makes sense or could long survive without the other
IIRC sufficiently many dishonest nodes (51%?) might screw bitcoin much worse, it had something to do with consesus/transactions. Is the above true? Isn't this "cartel" the "free market" in juan's anarchist utopia?
On 3/4/16, Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
IIRC sufficiently many dishonest nodes (51%?) might screw bitcoin much worse, it had something to do with consesus/transactions.
Is the above true?
Theres some random link http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/658/what-can-an-attacker-with-51-...
Isn't this "cartel" the "free market" in juan's anarchist utopia?
Yes. That's supposed to happen. t's also supposed to happen that there will be many independant brains out there that introduce opposing forces. But traditional sheeple don't exactly spin up as independant actors quickly when anarchism is suddenly dropped on them, thus they get raped for a while till they do. The one or two past situations over 50% were voluntarily rebalanced by pools and miners. However since pools are still too uneven few and large multi percent chunks the possible combinations and motives aren't ideal. People will eventually realize that they, as millions of users, are the ones who should be doing the mining, all independantly under a known and necessary code of poolsize limiting, a vested stake in preserving value of their own assets and economy, thus distributed impossible to be abused by large pools / entity cabal miners. Most users don't get that yet. Though the 21 of things is a step towards that. They also don't seem to get that ineffective bitcoin leadership (for those that don't believe in the anarchist blockchain as a possibility itself) is repressing and destroying their value and utility.
On Sat, Mar 05, 2016 at 02:45:27PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
Isn't this "cartel" the "free market" in juan's anarchist utopia? .... People will eventually realize that they, as millions of users, are the ones who should be doing the mining, all independantly under a known and necessary code of poolsize limiting, a vested stake in preserving value of their own assets and economy, thus distributed impossible to be abused by large pools / entity cabal miners. Most users don't get that yet. Though the 21 of things is a step towards that.
Don't expect people to change for good in real life and likely even in bitcoin. Probably the best can happen is they get pissed off because of starvation, make a revolution, then soon after get social engineered and/or owned again. Hope this is wrong.
On 3/6/16, Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
social engineered and/or owned again. Hope this is wrong.
Nobody's going to want to pay BTC over 3% CC fee in retail. Dark money can tolerate more fees, but how much? We still see in and out at up to 10% local and washing at 2*3%, plus the 4+*3% real world retail tolerance txfee limit, is 38+% the dark max before they too bail out? So eventually, real soon now... - Every bitcoin user must realize they have to volunteer, develop, sell at cost, and put a $25 open mining chip in their system. This kills mining profit cartels and gives top end network tx capacity (nodecount) beyond visa+mc+banks... after tuning network protocols. (Hypothesis of mining requiring / enabled by profit, instead of just to keep the net up so your unspent value can play, was likely design flaw... lots of networks operate fine on volunteerism without pay.) - Tx scaling must be solved into that new distributed capacity. - Blockchain disk storage must be distributed into distributed protocol archives, possibly with aging by requiring unspents be spent past archive checkpoints. More protocol work for this. In all this, nobody can have their keys invalidated, diminished in value, or be required to push their unspent through a realworld exchange into some other value (black and private market cap, whether entity or personal, are now huge and will refuse to play that). Nor is it known if and for how many hours flag days could be done. All seems sortof deadlocked right now... Popcorn at the halfening for sure :) I'm hodling.
On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:45:27 -0500 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 3/4/16, Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
Isn't this "cartel" the "free market" in juan's anarchist utopia?
Yes. That's supposed to happen.
No, this isn't the free market. For starters, it should be obvious that bitcoin doesn't operate in a free market. If we had a free market in money we wouldn't need bitcoin... Bitcoin is more like a black market. Similar to the black market for, say, some drugs the gov't doesn't like. And actually, bitcoin is more like a single a company, not a 'market'. Finally, allegedly, some people are 'exploiting' a 'known flaw' in the 'bitcoin protocol'. That's not 'a market'. 'Utopian' anarchy assumes that most people behave honestly. And service providers do what they are supposed to do. In this case miners are supposed to 'secure' the network, not attack it. If they attack it then we are not dealing with any kind of 'utopian anarchy', but with ordinary fraud.
it's also supposed to happen that there will be many independant brains out there that introduce opposing forces. But traditional sheeple don't exactly spin up as independant actors quickly when anarchism is suddenly dropped on them, thus they get raped for a while till they do.
The one or two past situations over 50% were voluntarily rebalanced by pools and miners. However since pools are still too uneven few and large multi percent chunks the possible combinations and motives aren't ideal. People will eventually realize that they, as millions of users, are the ones who should be doing the mining, all independantly under a known and necessary code of poolsize limiting, a vested stake in preserving value of their own assets and economy, thus distributed impossible to be abused by large pools / entity cabal miners. Most users don't get that yet. Though the 21 of things is a step towards that.
They also don't seem to get that ineffective bitcoin leadership (for those that don't believe in the anarchist blockchain as a possibility itself) is repressing and destroying their value and utility.
participants (4)
-
Georgi Guninski -
grarpamp -
juan -
Rayzer