On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 01:39:27AM +0100, rysiek wrote:

Dnia wtorek, 3 marca 2015 17:41:14 grarpamp pisze:

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There might, or might not, be hackers among us who are trying to hack on policy level. But those hackers, if they indeed are following (or maybe even taking part in) the discussions here, might not want to come out with such information, as the level of hostility towards any persons or organisations that can be painted as "working with The Man" or "taking the Man's money" is too damn high™.

Who cares, that's up to the cpunk. If the cypherpunk is pure, working with the man to get cpunk shit done is just another hacking skin to hang on their wall. And a highly prized one of social engineering at that. Cpunks should bow the fuck down in respect to such a fellow cpunk, not fling hostile FUD at them just because they're working the system. For that matter, they should join them to add another voice. There are probably more US persons on this list than there are in their entire Congress. Think about that...

+1. And for those that don't believe shit can be hacked on policy level, look at ACTA, or at censorship debates in Poland. For instance: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/07/27/1325235/the-shortest-internet-censors...

My theory is the whole Tom Cotton letter to Iran was a legislative trojan, and there was a coordinated psy-ops campaign to get 47 senators to sign it. So who would be financially motivated to hack the republican party, and have the covert intelligence and psy-ops/social engineering capability to pull it off? For all we know this was done by some pissed off NSA/CIA cpunk employees who know how to work the system and aren't quite ready to pull a snowden yet. Oh, and the *discovery* of NSA/CIA involvement in hacking the party would just be a bonus easter-egg for a lot of libertarian-minded cpunk patriots.

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Now in the other direction of possible hostility... should The Man discover a cpunk within their ranks, well yes, there is a risk there. The usual opsec applies.

The opsec, as you say, is "usual". As in, cpunks more or less know how to handle it. The FUD and divide-and-conquer is a whole different ball game, and that's a huge problem.

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In other words, FUD spread by "the Man" and the disinformation campaign, sowing dissent, creating hostility and distrust within the community, and in general the divide and conquer approach work wonders.

That's why the above masses need to activate and throw the FUD back, and more, at The Man. Two can play that game. Problem is, right now there is only one real player on the field of politics, his name is The Man, and he's not on team cpunk.

Absolutely. And to start doing that, we *REALLY* need to see that "The Man" is not really a single entity, but a dynamic system of co-dependant people, institutions, interests, etc. Once we stop seeing "Teh Gummint" as a single entity that Has A Plan, cracks start to show. And we all know what we can do with cracks, don't we?

As long as we allow ourselves to drink the Kool-Aid of how mighty and monolithic "The Man" is, we're fucked.

The man has a million cracks & crevices, dark, warm, inviting places for the roots of a million seeds to grow. What are you planting this spring? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' hozer@hozed.org 7 elements earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul grid.coop Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel, nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash

As a side note to this debate, I've negotiated bunches of settlements between local (and, once, state) governments and citizen claimants. In not one case can I say that the agreements were worth the paper they were ultimately printed on as there is no way to hold a government to its agreements when you really get down to it beyond the ballot box. If an agreement calls for some sort of enforcement, then you can be sure that in the fullness of time enforcement will wane. If an agreement calls for appointment of an oversight board, then you can be sure that in the fullness of time the appointment process will yield not fire-in-the-belly citizen activists but apparatchiks. If an agreement calls for an evaluation five years hence as to whether the course of action was or was not producing the results that it was promised to produce, then you can be sure that in the fullness of time such review will be pro forma, vapid, innocuous, and self-congratulatory, if it is done at all. A government's word cannot be trusted when details matter, yet another manifestation of how eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, or, to repurpose the title of Larry O'Brien's memoirs, there are no final victories. Please don't let this start an exploration of any rat-hole, just allow me to speak from four decades of experience, please. --dan

I love how I only see wacky excerpts of Juan's out of context, these days. :) On 04/03/15 16:38, grarpamp wrote:

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Juan wrote:

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LMAO!

We're listening, show us the way...

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Or maybe you are in the payroll of the CIA.

I hear they have interesting jobs, you should apply.

-- Scientific Director, IndieBio Irish Programme Got a biology-inspired business idea that $50,000 - & 3 months in a well equipped lab could accelerate? Apply for the Summer programme in Ireland: http://indie.bio/apply-to-ireland Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey

Dnia środa, 4 marca 2015 11:38:22 grarpamp pisze:

I hear they have interesting jobs, you should apply.

I don't think anybody can have two jobs with them at the same time, mate. -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147

On Wed, 4 Mar 2015 11:38:22 -0500 grarpamp wrote:

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Juan wrote:

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LMAO!

We're listening, show us the way...

Listening, that seems to be exactly what you are not doing. But go ahead. Post videos from retards who think they own the government. Surely people who start with such a brilliant premise must have it all figured out.

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Or maybe you are in the payroll of the CIA.

I hear they have interesting jobs, you should apply.

Sure. I can a few recomendation letters from the 'cypherpunk scene' eh?

wth are you talking about? ireland is the bridgehead of fucking facebooks tentacles.

The irish data protection officer is a goddamn joke.

Underfunded, understaffed, but also the only reason why Facebook's facial recognition database was rolled back in Europe. Well, we're told it was rolled back, which I don't believe for an instant. Point being, the DPC has done a fantastic job with the shoestring our government gives it. All of which is beside my point: I wasn't saying the Irish government's great and that Ireland's a safe-haven from spying; it's not. We have GCHQ sitting on all of our fibres, and we *do* host some of the world's biggest NSA assets: Facebook, Google, Amazon, etcetera. My point was that our *government* does not engage, as far as we know, in mass surveillance, and that receiving government funding in Ireland to study and deploy privacy projects would therefore be less worrisome than receiving the same funding from the UK or US, which presents the well-trodden paradox of being "funded by the adversary". On 04/03/15 10:35, stef wrote:

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 07:16:18AM +0000, Cathal (Phone) wrote:

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+1. More than this, whatever your feelings on governments per se, not all governments are particularly bad when it comes to privacy, spying, etcetera.

There is plenty wrong with the Irish kleptocracy, but as far as we currently know domestic mass surveillance isn't in play over here.

wth are you talking about? ireland is the bridgehead of fucking facebooks tentacles. the irish data protection officer is a goddamn joke. the whole country has major parts of its gdp only because of their incredibly flexible spine that they use to adjust to the silicon valley doing their EU money and data laundering, besides the UK there's not much more complicit states than the irish when it comes to EU wide mass surveillance.

-- Scientific Director, IndieBio Irish Programme Got a biology-inspired business idea that $50,000 - & 3 months in a well equipped lab could accelerate? Apply for the Summer programme in Ireland: http://indie.bio/apply-to-ireland Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey