Fw: Your errors about me in your book.
To: Andy Greenberg of Forbes Magazine, author of "This Machine Kills Secrets".
Keep in mind that most of what I describe here will be in my 2003 lawsuit, 02-1052. http:/// cryptome.org/jdb-v-usa-106.htm http:///
I should point out that you don't seem to be commenting about my now-numerous emails to you about these attorneys. What's the problem? Are you AFRAID to comment? I think it's unfair for you to wait until I have disclosed all this material, before you comment.
I really think I have a right to learn WHY you claimed that I had tried to fire 'every' attorney I'd had. Where did you hear this? You certainly never tried to verify this claim with me! I would have told you the truth; I would have directed you to lawsuit 02-1052, which already contained the truth.
Robert Leen: (You might initially be pleased to hear that Leen was the first attorney I'd actually TRIED to 'fire'. But don't get your hopes up! I was entirely unsuccessful at that attempt.!)
My next attorney was assigned about November 21, 2000. I knew 'the fix was in' because I had done NOTHING illegal. I didn't know about the forged, fake, fraudulent appeal case (99-30210), at least the portion of which was prior to May 2000 But I had very publicly announced that I had major, major suspicions about government government corruption, especially Ryan Thomas Lund's November 25, 1997 assault on me (ordered by government employees). And, I knew that the government had placed a tracking device on my parents' car (probably both of them) in April-June 1998. Also, I knew that the Feds had illegally searched my house on my arrest in June 1998. (I had been removed from my house; the house was empty of 'cops'. They had no authority to continue to search that house, yet they did so.
Robert Leen refused to try to obtain any 'discovery' shortly after my arrest about November 20, 2000. Recognizing that Leen was trying to sabotage my legal case, I wrote a letter to the Judge (Tanner) in about December 8, 2000, complaining that Leen was trying to sabotage my case. I was astonished (at least in part) that the Judge refused to have Leen fired. I kept asking for Leen to be fired throughout January, February, March, and beyond in 2001. No (good) answer by the Judge. I began learning the law in mid-December 2000. Starting about late February 2001, I began to write various legal motions, in order to document my complete unwillingness to accept Leen's 'representation'. (If you just look at the docket entries for case 00-5731, you may not be able to easily identify which motions were written by me, and which w
To show your lawyer how corrupt the Judge (Tanner) and Leen, and the prosecutor (Robb London) were (case 00-5731), during the last week of March 2001, I filed a 'notice of interlocutory appeal'. Your lawyer presumably understands that if a 'notice of appeal' arrives at court, of an appealable issue, that divests the jurisdiction of that court to proceed with any trial. Wanna know what happened? The judge PROCEEDED with a 'trial' as if nothing had happened. I filed a SECOND notice of interlocutory appeal a few weeks before the 'sentencing', and again that filing was completely ignored.
Robert Leen was NEVER 'fired'. In fact, in May 2010 (after being arrested for an ostensible probation violation.) Leen actually continued to (pretend to) 'represent me'. Even until today, I presume, he is ostensibly still 'representing' me. At least, on the paperwork he will be listed as 'representing' me.
I should point out, also, that it was about this time (early in Leen's malicious 'representation' of me) that I first heard the wacky comment (by the prosecutor Robb London) of his resistance to having Leen replaced. London said something LIKE "Bell fires all his attorneys". By now, Mr. Greenberg, you are well aware that this isn't true. You really need to find Robb London, and ask him if he ever said something like "Bell fires all his attorneys". Perhaps London would defend himself by claiming that he looked into the court record, noticed that at various times the name of my lawyer had changed, and he decided this 'must have' meant that I succeeded (and, therefore, certainly tried) in replacing these attorneys.
Annemarie Levins
I guess I'm getting tired of re-hashing what you could, and SHOULD, have read in my lawsuit, 02-1052, filed July 14, 2003. Levins was assigned shortly after my ostensible 'conviction' in September 2001. (The reason, as I vaguely recall, was that Robert Leen had stated, "I don't do appeals". I responded by saying to Leen, in what was only about 25% intended as a joke, "You don't do appeals. You merely make them necessary.") Over the next 4-5 months I wrote Levins numerous letters, containing easily 100 pages of single-spaced text, listing HUNDREDS of very arguable appeal issues. Levins, to my recollection, NEVER responded to even a single one of my letters! An increasing sense of dread resulted. I felt it was quite obvious that Levins was planning to further victimize me, in precisely the same way Avenia, Mandel, and Leen had done. (Remember, I did not then yet know how Solovy had victimized me, by concealing the
pre-May-2000 existence of appeal 99-30210.)
As I vaguely recall (not referring to any record) my appeal had to be filed on a Monday, perhaps it was in January or February 2002. At virtually the last minute, perhaps on a Thursday before, I finally received a copy of "the appeal". By that time, I had learned plenty of federal criminal and appeal law. I saw the appeal that Levins had written, the one that she had CONCEALED from me for 4 months, and it was obvious that it was intended to sabotage my case. Which, in fact, it did. There were at least 100 incredibly valid appeal issues which, if they had been argued properly, would have easily freed me, but Levins argued NONE of them.
Perhaps the day later, maybe it was Friday, the weekday before the appeal had to be filed, I obtained a telephone call to Levins. In that call, I accused Levins of deliberately sabotaging my case, saying that her failure to even respond to my 100+ pages of letters proved that she was a crook. She didn't deny it! When it was clear that Levins wasn't going to apologize, I ORDERED her to NOT file that appeal. I told her, "You're fired! You must not file that appeal! And if you're already filed it, I order you to withdraw it!!!". Strong words, but quite appropriate under the circumstances. The result? She DIDN'T resign. She filed the appeal. She DIDN'T have it withdrawn. The appeal lost, as I knew it would.
---
Mr. Greenberg, you should be utterly and completely ashamed for what you have done. You have thoroughly and completely misrepresented virtually every fact, implication, and nuance relating to me and my legal cases, and virtually everything I said/wrote to you. You LIED by claiming of your lawyer, "She read Bell's letter, then checked his legal file, which showed that he had fired practically every court-appointed lawyer ever assigned to him---little wonder that he had botched his appeals. It also showed he had filed fifty-one lawsuits against the government while in prison---nearly all dismissed immediately. She wanted nothing to do with it."
Mr. Greenberg, your lawyer is totally incompetent to have said ANY of these things. I have made perfectly clear in my recent set of emails to you:
1. You never verified any of these supposed 'facts', when in fact you had access to my 02-1052 lawsuit which would have told you the truth.
2. I never was SUCCESSFUL at firing ANY attorney assigned to my case.
3. I never ATTEMPTED to fire Avenia, Mandel, Floit, Bukey, and Solovy.
4. When, finally, I did begin to ATTEMPT to fire an attorney, Leen, I was entirely unsuccessful, indeed for a period of 9 years.
5. When I did ATTEMPT to fire Annemarie Levins, and ordered her to NOT file that appeal, I was completely unsuccessful in that attempt.
6. I did not file "Fifty-one lawsuits against the government". As I have already explained to you, I DID file well over 100 "habeas corpus" actions, which your lawyer was apparently unable to distinguish from 'lawsuits'. But since your lawyer probably didn't even bother to do anymore than read the dockets for some of these cases, it is perfectly obvious that she had no genuine idea why these habeas corpus actions were "dismissed immediately". In other words, she (presumably) didn't know whether those dismissals were 'genuine', or whether the dismissals were entirely frivolous. I can assure you that these dismissals were entirely frivolous. But, you didn't check my side of the story, because YOU DIDN'T ASK ME! That's called "bias".
7. _I_ never "botched any appeals". The appeals, to the extent they were 'botched', were 'botched' by the attorneys who were assigned to me, and (I claim) were actually assigned for the PURPOSE of 'botching' those appeals.
Mr. Greenberg, at this point you have an obligation, not merely to APOLOGIZE, but in fact to set the record straight. And I mean, not only in future editions of your book, but also to investigate the reality of the facts of the case. After all of the victimization I faced at the hands of the government and its thugs, you come along and make the situation worse! You try to make me look like a nut, when the reality is precisely as I have long claimed: I am the victim of the Federal government and its employees and agents. At no time did I lie or misrepresent the truth. At EVERY time the Federal government and its agents misrepresent the truth.
Mr. Greenberg, I have decided to publish the contents of this email in the Cypherpunks mailing list, to show that I have put you on notice as to your complicity in this matter. You can fix part of the problem by changing your book, and by writing a long article for Forbes telling (at least) how you claim to have been hoodwinked by the Federal Government. Morally, that will help a bit, but it won't change the fact that you were utterly unwilling to pursue the truth when it mattered most.
Jim Bell
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Jim Bell
Why are we being spammed with this? I don’t care about your lawyers or books with you in them. Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Then don't read the message, Al. The reality is that Greenberg wrote a very prominent book, which effectively libeled me on the subject of events which are related to Cypherpunks. I think that the readers of this list will want to know that, about Mr. Greenberg, and in the future they will want to see what he does about it.
Jim Bell
________________________________
From: Al Billings
It sounds very important to you and spam to the rest of us.
On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Jim Bell
Then don't read the message, Al. The reality is that Greenberg wrote a very prominent book, which effectively libeled me on the subject of events which are related to Cypherpunks. I think that the readers of this list will want to know that, about Mr. Greenberg, and in the future they will want to see what he does about it. Jim Bell
From: Al Billings
To: Jim Bell Cc: Andrew Greenberg ; "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Your errors about me in your book. Why are we being spammed with this? I don’t care about your lawyers or books with you in them.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
I don't consider it to be spam. It's relevant to the list and the history of cypherpunks. What was done to Jim was so egregiously wrong, I think he has the right to correct the facts whenever possible. Greenberg has a responsibility to address these concerns. We have new list members all the time who may not know the backstory, and it's important. We're adults, we can just skip over list-relevant posts we don't want to read. -S On Nov 18, 2013 3:26 PM, Al Billings <albill@openbuddha.com> wrote: It sounds very important to you and spam to the rest of us. On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Jim Bell <jamesdbell8@yahoo.com> wrote:Then don't read the message, Al. The reality is that Greenberg wrote a very prominent book, which effectively libeled me on the subject of events which are related to Cypherpunks. I think that the readers of this list will want to know that, about Mr. Greenberg, and in the future they will want to see what he does about it. Jim Bell From: Al Billings <albill@openbuddha.com> To: Jim Bell <jamesdbell8@yahoo.com> Cc: Andrew Greenberg <agreenberg@forbes.com>; "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Your errors about me in your book. Why are we being spammed with this? I don’t care about your lawyers or books with you in them.Al Billingsalbill@openbuddha.comhttp://makehacklearn.org Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013, at 06:05 PM, shelley@misanthropia.info wrote:
I don't consider it to be spam. It's relevant to the list and the history of cypherpunks. What was done to Jim was so egregiously wrong, I think he has the right to correct the facts whenever possible. Greenberg has a responsibility to address these concerns.
+1 I know if facts about me were fucked up this badly, I would definitely go on record to correct them. If said facts were relevant to the topic of this list, yes, I would be posting about them here too. -- Shawn K. Quinn skquinn@rushpost.com
I have no idea what this is about beyond what you say below, but off hand, you have libeled everyone else on this mailing list by the statement in the subject of these messages: "Your errors about me in your book." I can assure you that I made no errors about you in my book. Rather than the apparent royal you, perhaps you could be more specific and careful next time. Good day sir. On 11/18/13 3:18 PM, Al Billings wrote:
It sounds very important to you and spam to the rest of us.
On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Jim Bell
mailto:jamesdbell8@yahoo.com> wrote: Then don't read the message, Al. The reality is that Greenberg wrote a very prominent book, which effectively libeled me on the subject of events which are related to Cypherpunks. I think that the readers of this list will want to know that, about Mr. Greenberg, and in the future they will want to see what he does about it. Jim Bell
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *From:* Al Billings
mailto:albill@openbuddha.com> *To:* Jim Bell mailto:jamesdbell8@yahoo.com> *Cc:* Andrew Greenberg mailto:agreenberg@forbes.com>; "cypherpunks@cpunks.org mailto:cypherpunks@cpunks.org" mailto:cypherpunks@cpunks.org> *Sent:* Monday, November 18, 2013 3:04 PM *Subject:* Re: Your errors about me in your book. Why are we being spammed with this? I don’t care about your lawyers or books with you in them.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com mailto:albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org http://makehacklearn.org/
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com mailto:albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
sdw
It's a forwarded message. It's copied to the list because it's relevant to the list, just like the discussion of the book's launch was relevant to the list, way back when all of the people complaining about posts from Jim Fucking Bell on the CYPHERPUNKS list weren't on said list. Lurk more. On Mon, 2013-11-18 at 20:10 -0800, Stephen Williams wrote:
I have no idea what this is about beyond what you say below, but off hand, you have libeled everyone else on this mailing list by the statement in the subject of these messages:
"Your errors about me in your book." I can assure you that I made no errors about you in my book. Rather than the apparent royal you, perhaps you could be more specific and careful next time.
Good day sir.
On 11/18/13 3:18 PM, Al Billings wrote:
It sounds very important to you and spam to the rest of us.
On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Jim Bell
wrote: Then don't read the message, Al. The reality is that Greenberg wrote a very prominent book, which effectively libeled me on the subject of events which are related to Cypherpunks. I think that the readers of this list will want to know that, about Mr. Greenberg, and in the future they will want to see what he does about it. Jim Bell
__________________________________________________________________ From: Al Billings
To: Jim Bell Cc: Andrew Greenberg ; "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Your errors about me in your book. Why are we being spammed with this? I don’t care about your lawyers or books with you in them.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
sdw
-- Sent from Ubuntu
Yes, he’s a precious celebrity.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Ted Smith
It's a forwarded message. It's copied to the list because it's relevant to the list, just like the discussion of the book's launch was relevant to the list, way back when all of the people complaining about posts from Jim Fucking Bell on the CYPHERPUNKS list weren't on said list.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Hey Al,
You’ve got to have a pretty thick skin to be on a mailing list - sometimes people post several messages in a row that may be over your head, in regards to people or events you have no knowledge of, or just plain boring. In these cases it is best to just buddha-up - find your delete key and go with the flow. If you really can’t see why the members of this particular list might be interested this particular “celebrity’s” correspondence in this matter — if you truly have “no idea what it is about” — then perhaps you should save your comments until you do have some inkling of what’s going around you. Then you won’t appear petulant or uninformed when you wish to participate rationally at a later time.
Good luck!
On Nov 19, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Al Billings
Yes, he’s a precious celebrity.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Ted Smith
wrote: It's a forwarded message. It's copied to the list because it's relevant to the list, just like the discussion of the book's launch was relevant to the list, way back when all of the people complaining about posts from Jim Fucking Bell on the CYPHERPUNKS list weren't on said list.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Thanks for the BS, Josh. I was on the original cypherpunks list back in the day and have been on email lists since 1989 or so. Maybe I can explain to you how the Internet works.
That said, spam is spam and Bell’s personal problems are not something I give a shit about. I’m obviously not the only one. I know several people who have left this list recently due to the almost complete lack of signal to noise. Perhaps you embrace this though.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Joshua Case
Hey Al,
You’ve got to have a pretty thick skin to be on a mailing list - sometimes people post several messages in a row that may be over your head, in regards to people or events you have no knowledge of, or just plain boring. In these cases it is best to just buddha-up - find your delete key and go with the flow. If you really can’t see why the members of this particular list might be interested this particular “celebrity’s” correspondence in this matter — if you truly have “no idea what it is about” — then perhaps you should save your comments until you do have some inkling of what’s going around you. Then you won’t appear petulant or uninformed when you wish to participate rationally at a later time.
Good luck!
Al Billings wrote: >>Yes, he’s a precious celebrity. No, we're talking about Jim Bell. Not Assange. As Ted said, lurk more.
You seem to be confusing “I don’t give a shit about Jim” with “I have no idea who Jim is.”
On Nov 19, 2013, at 1:02 PM, ""
No, we're talking about Jim Bell. Not Assange.
As Ted said, lurk more.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Then just shut your fucking mouth and skip over messages you don't want to read instead of spamming the entire list with your ignorant bullshit. On Nov 19, 2013 1:48 PM, Al Billings <albill@openbuddha.com> wrote: You seem to be confusing “I don’t give a shit about Jim” with “I have no idea who Jim is.” On Nov 19, 2013, at 1:02 PM, "" <shelley@misanthropia.info> <shelley@misanthropia.info> wrote:No, we're talking about Jim Bell. Not Assange. As Ted said, lurk more. Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Why? This seems to be the list for personal spam.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 1:58 PM, ""
Then just shut your fucking mouth and skip over messages you don't want to read instead of spamming the entire list with your ignorant bullshit.
On Nov 19, 2013 1:48 PM, Al Billings
wrote: You seem to be confusing “I don’t give a shit about Jim” with “I have no idea who Jim is.”
On Nov 19, 2013, at 1:02 PM, ""
wrote: No, we're talking about Jim Bell. Not Assange.
As Ted said, lurk more.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
But... but... I have an axe to grind, and need a public outlet to do so! Because of reasons! Al Billings wrote:
Why? This seems to be the list for personal spam.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 1:58 PM, ""
mailto:shelley@misanthropia.info> mailto:shelley@misanthropia.info> wrote: Then just shut your fucking mouth and skip over messages you don't want to read instead of spamming the entire list with your ignorant bullshit.
Dnia wtorek, 19 listopada 2013 13:59:56 Al Billings pisze:
Why? This seems to be the list for personal spam.
Apparently, however -- and I say it with utmost respect, while being a newbie here -- not for *your* personal spam.
From a newbie's perspective: when I joined, I had no idea who Jim Bell is, and had no idea this list has had such a long and colourful history. While for the time being I "tl;dr'd" the bulk of the e-mail that has started this thread, I intend on reading it in full soon-ish, as "those who do not know history are bound to repeat it".
I now do appreciate the long history behind his e-mail, and regardless of whether or not I personally am interested in what Jim has to say, I recognize he has the right to say it. Adding a [HISTORY] or somesuch tag would be a nice touch, but that's that. I have no idea what makes a person think they can summarily decide "this is irrelevant to the list" and insist upon it for so long, after so many responses that seem to indicate otherwise. I myself had a "WTF?" moment with Jim's e-mail, but I shrugged my shoulders and moved to the next e-mail. I don't have to read everything, after all, and I can operate the "mark as read" functionality of my e-mail client pretty well. So, I can understand your "WTF?", Al, but it's really the time to stop beating this horse. It is dead. It has gone to meet its maker. It ceased to be. If it hadn't been mailed to the list it would have been pushing up daisies. This is a dead horse. -- Pozdr rysiek
Until tomorrow, when he does it again…and the next day…and the next day. He seems to feel this list is his fawning crowd of adoration that cares about his personal fights with whomever he is fighting this week.
I’m here because I care about crypto and security. I enjoy the posts of links to articles, videos, news items, or actual discussion of these issues but, seriously, this isn’t the Bell Fanclub, is it?
On Nov 19, 2013, at 2:21 PM, rysiek
So, I can understand your "WTF?", Al, but it's really the time to stop beating this horse. It is dead. It has gone to meet its maker. It ceased to be. If it hadn't been mailed to the list it would have been pushing up daisies.
Al Billings albill@openbuddha.com http://makehacklearn.org
Dnia wtorek, 19 listopada 2013 14:27:34 Al Billings pisze:
Until tomorrow, when he does it again…and the next day…and the next day. He seems to feel this list is his fawning crowd of adoration that cares about his personal fights with whomever he is fighting this week.
Add him to a killfile and be done with it, then?
I’m here because I care about crypto and security. I enjoy the posts of links to articles, videos, news items, or actual discussion of these issues
Great, so am I. I also tend to enjoy some historical perspective from time to time. When I do not feel like it, I simply skip the relevant e-mails.
but, seriously, this isn’t the Bell Fanclub, is it?
I don't know and I don't care. Even if you consider Jim's postings to be noise (I don't), the signal-to-noise ratio here is very high, isn't it? So let's just all get on with our lives, and leave this unnecessary drama behind, eh? -- Pozdr rysiek
+1 for adding an email filter and getting on with life.
On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:31:57 +0100
rysiek
Dnia wtorek, 19 listopada 2013 14:27:34 Al Billings pisze:
Until tomorrow, when he does it again…and the next day…and the next day. He seems to feel this list is his fawning crowd of adoration that cares about his personal fights with whomever he is fighting this week.
Add him to a killfile and be done with it, then?
I’m here because I care about crypto and security. I enjoy the posts of links to articles, videos, news items, or actual discussion of these issues
Great, so am I. I also tend to enjoy some historical perspective from time to time. When I do not feel like it, I simply skip the relevant e-mails.
but, seriously, this isn’t the Bell Fanclub, is it?
I don't know and I don't care. Even if you consider Jim's postings to be noise (I don't), the signal-to-noise ratio here is very high, isn't it? So let's just all get on with our lives, and leave this unnecessary drama behind, eh?
2013/11/19 Al Billings
I’m here because I care about crypto and security. I enjoy the posts of links to articles, videos, news items, or actual discussion of these issues but, seriously, this isn’t the Bell Fanclub, is it?
Seems he didn't get (or really *get*) my mail about cryptography in no vacuum.
Dnia wtorek, 19 listopada 2013 13:02:14 shelley@misanthropia.info pisze:
Al Billings wrote:
Yes, he’s a precious celebrity.
No, we're talking about Jim Bell.
Apparently this name does not ring a bell with some. /rimshot/ -- Pozdr rysiek
Andy Greenberg continues the lurid Forbes pro-business hyperbole of Assassination Markets (more investor oriented than Politics). http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/11/18/meet-the-assassination-... Wall Street loves this marketing murder shit, preferrably at global warmaking scale. "I am a crypto-anarchist," Sanjuro concludes. "We have a bright future ahead of us." Sounds like Jeff Gordon redux.
participants (12)
-
Al Billings
-
Cathal Garvey
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Griffin Boyce
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Jim Bell
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John Young
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Joshua Case
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Lodewijk andré de la porte
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rysiek
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Shawn K. Quinn
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shelley@misanthropia.info
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Stephen Williams
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Ted Smith