Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism
https://attackthesystem.com/2017/02/22/against-the-anti-fascist-creeps/ [partial quote follows] Academic Gloss for the AntifaFor decades, a minor cottage industry of professional “anti-racists” and “anti-fascists” has existed for the purpose of perpetually sounding the alarm about the imminent threat posed by supposed “far right extremists.” The most well-known and influential of these is the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has raked in millions of dollars largely by frightening elderly liberals and Jews old enough to remember the Holocaust with hobgoblin tales about the supposedly persistent rise of neo-Nazism in America. The fundraising tactics of the SPLC are nearly identical to those of televangelists soliciting funds from elderly Christians by spinning tales about the supposed infiltration of the public schools by gay pedophiles. If one reads the literature of the SPLC and, for example, the publications of religious right organizations such as Focus on the Family and Coral Ridge Ministries, parallel themes will soon become noticeable. While the SPLC and a similar organization, the Anti-Defamation League, are the major league players in the “anti-fascism” industry, there are a number of minor league players as well ranging from the Ford Foundation-funded (how is that for irony?) Political Research Associates to AK Press, a small publisher oriented towards the “antifa” sector of the wider “anarchist” milieu.The antifa (an abbreviation for “anti-fascist”) are a loose collection of leftist youth gangs that exist primarily in Europe and the United States, and whose participants typically fancy themselves as front line warriors against the always imminent Fourth Reich. In reality, the antifa are largely a collection of overgrown juvenile delinquents specializing in petty vandalism and stalking activities. The antifa occasionally engage in physical assaults, but only when they greatly outnumber their intended victims, and with the most defenseless people often being the target. I have personally witnessed the antifa attacking both women and elderly people. When the antifa have targeted more formidable enemies, their limited capabilities as street fighters have been quickly revealed. During a confrontation with members of white nationalist organizations in Sacramento during the summer of 2016, a group of approximately 200 “anti-fascists” attempted a swarm attack on about 30 members of the “right-wing” organizations that were present. Half a dozen of the antifa consequently received stab wounds in what was a pretty puny performance on their part, to say the least.Multiple individual writers also exist who attempt to provide an academic gloss for the antifa, including Chip Berlet, Matthew Lyons, Spencer “Sunshine,” and others. One such individual is Alexander Reid-Ross whom the leftist webzine Truth-Out describes as a geography instructor at Portland State University. Reid-Ross recently released a book titled “Against the Fascist Creep,” published by the previously mentioned AK Press. This book has since been praised in some leftist circles so it is interesting to take a look at its actual claims and arguments.The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Thule“Against the Fascist Creep” presents a lengthy narrative that purports to outline the means by which “fascists” are supposedly engaged in a persistent and ongoing effort to infiltrate and co-opt the left in order to advance one or another nefarious agenda. Reid-Ross takes his seemingly intricate knowledge of “far right” movements and organizations and spins this into a conspiracy narrative about the endless effort by fascists to infiltrate the perpetually beleaguered and victimized left. How does this “fascist creep” actually work? Reid-Ross describes two methods: “Hence, fascism creeps in two ways: (1) it draws left-wing notions of solidarity and liberation into ultranationalist, right-wing ideology; and (2), at least in its early stages, fascists often utilize ‘broad front’ strategies, proposing a mass-based nationalist platform to gain access to mainstream political audiences and key administrative positions.”
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes? https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/ <https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/> And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera. I defend the right to speech that I do not agree with, but war starts in speech - and things are escalating. It’s not just a sense I’ve got, you can look at the attendance and participation changes. You cannot pretend this isn’t real, and problematic. You can’t act as if all people are rational actors, if they were the free market system would have worked! (Ok last line was open trolling, Jim) Best ---- Joshua Case jwcase@gmail.com <mailto:jwcase@gmail.com> “International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. This was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."
On Mar 3, 2017, at 11:16 AM, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
or, this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDBHHV5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488520894&sr=8-1&keywords=hailstorm+saga+of+the+new+ss <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDBHHV5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488520894&sr=8-1&keywords=hailstorm+saga+of+the+new+ss> ---- Joshua Case jwcase@gmail.com <mailto:jwcase@gmail.com> “International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. This was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."
On Mar 3, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Case <jwcase@gmail.com> wrote:
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes?
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/ <https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/>
And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera.
I defend the right to speech that I do not agree with, but war starts in speech - and things are escalating. It’s not just a sense I’ve got, you can look at the attendance and participation changes.
You cannot pretend this isn’t real, and problematic. You can’t act as if all people are rational actors, if they were the free market system would have worked! (Ok last line was open trolling, Jim)
Best ---- Joshua Case jwcase@gmail.com <mailto:jwcase@gmail.com>
“International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. This was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."
On Mar 3, 2017, at 11:16 AM, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com <mailto:jdb10987@yahoo.com>> wrote:
https://attackthesystem.com/2017/02/22/against-the-anti-fascist-creeps/ (Another partial quote follows:) "This may be as a good a definition of fascism as any. However, Reid-Ross is not consistent in his adherence to this definition throughout the book. He clearly understands that simply defining “fascism” according to the popular meaning of the term as synonymous with “right-wing authoritarian states” is inaccurate, and highly problematic from an analytical perspective. However, he subsequently proceeds to at least implicitly characterize as “fascist” any kind of ideological framework or political tendency that involves any sort of real or perceived ethnic, racial, or national differentiation. Among these are the highly diverse right-wing populist movements of Europe, right-wing socialists, various anarchist tendencies, and American political currents as varied as neo-Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan, Libertarians, the militia movement and the Tea Party.[end of partial quote] I wondered what libertarians (or capital-L Libertarians) did to deserve being linked with, "neo-Confederates", the "Ku Klux Klan", etc. Then, I realized that those anti-fascists that the author (Keith Preston) is alluding to are simply reacting to anyone they don't like as being the enemy. If nothing else, libertarians would eliminate, or at least drastically reduce, the size and control of governments. Anyone who is in love with large, controlling government would have to think of libertarians as being "the enemy".This is certainly not the first time, in the last few months, I have seen "libertarians" being lumped with many other people and organizations, the latter often being distasteful. But what are we to think? Jim Bell
On 03/03/2017 10:17 AM, jim bell wrote:
I wondered what libertarians (or capital-L Libertarians) did to deserve being linked with, "neo-Confederates", the "Ku Klux Klan", etc.
Simple. Libertarianism is fertile medium for Fascism to grow from because Fascism DEPENDS on self-centrism to achieve a following, and there's NOTHING more self-centric-ly oriented than a Libertarian. Rr
On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 06:17:41PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
https://attackthesystem.com/2017/02/22/against-the-anti-fascist-creeps/ (Another partial quote follows:) "This may be as a good a definition of fascism as any. However, Reid-Ross is not consistent in his adherence to this definition throughout the book. He clearly understands that simply defining “fascism” according to the popular meaning of the term as synonymous with “right-wing authoritarian states” is inaccurate, and highly problematic from an analytical perspective.
However, he subsequently proceeds to at least implicitly characterize as “fascist” any kind of ideological framework or political tendency that involves any sort of real or perceived ethnic, racial, or national differentiation.
Now that makes sense - "fascism is anything opposing an ethnically (etc) homogeneous future" ! So Antifa is violently opposed to anything standing in the way of a unified, ethnically homogeneous, global unipolar new world order. Got it. Now if I can only figure out why Razer is so pro-NWO !? Ethnic homegeneity in the name of ethnic diversity. And this global ethnically homogeneous outcome must be violently fought for, to make sure no one opposed this outcome, says Antifa.
Among these are the highly diverse right-wing populist movements of Europe, right-wing socialists, various anarchist tendencies, and American political currents as varied as neo-Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan, Libertarians, the militia movement and the Tea Party.[end of partial quote]
I wondered what libertarians (or capital-L Libertarians) did to deserve being linked with, "neo-Confederates", the "Ku Klux Klan", etc.
Some of them are probably inclined towards global ethnic diversity (in the geographic/ "nationalist" sense) rather than global ethnic homogeneity.
Then, I realized that those anti-fascists that the author (Keith Preston) is alluding to are simply reacting to anyone they don't like as being the enemy.
Possibly. But I think there's more to it - violent opposition to (real) ethnic diversity on the planet. That's an amazing realisation - that some people are literally violently opposed to ethnic diversity in this world. And of course The Ministry insists that they commit their violent acts under the banner of "freedom of speech" and "protecting diversity"! What a spin out.
If nothing else, libertarians would eliminate, or at least drastically reduce, the size and control of governments.
Which would remove the power of the nation state to impose war and to maximise global ethnic homogeneity. Except when governments have those in power who might not support that intention...
Anyone who is in love with large, controlling government would have to think of libertarians as being "the enemy".
Indeed.
This is certainly not the first time, in the last few months, I have seen "libertarians" being lumped with many other people and organizations, the latter often being distasteful. But what are we to think?
The Ministry is in full swing.
From: Joshua Case <jwcase@gmail.com>
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes? https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/ And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera. Hey, I don't like that either, but it is an unfortunately predictable consequence of misconduct at the other side of the political spectrum. And I say "other side" with caution: The "horseshoe" theory of political expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory explains why dictators of the left and dictators of the right tend to look and act alike. So, I've come to believe that there really is very little difference between (for example) communists and fascists: They are merely authoritarian or totalitarian thugs that somebody has arbitrarily and capriciously labelled as being "left-wing" and "right-wing", respectively.
Myself, I have long preferred the "Nolan Chart", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart to the extent that it shows that as you slide down the lower-left boundary, you begin to get to the same location (0/0) as sliding down the right boundary.
I defend the right to speech that I do not agree with, but war starts in speech - and things are escalating. It’s not just a sense I’ve got, you can look at the attendance and participation changes. Saying, "war starts with speech" may very well be true, but let's not fall into the trap of using that to justify restrictions on free speech. I've lived long enough to see "the left" engage in massive protests in places like UC Berkeley in the 1960s in favor of free speech, to today's left wing engage in riots in the same venue to oppose free speech. Quite a change, huh? Most of the young ones don't even see the irony there.
You cannot pretend this isn’t real, and problematic. You can’t act as if all people are rational actors, if they were the free market system would have worked! (Ok last line was open trolling, Jim) A few weeks ago, I noticed that BOTH Fascism and Communism pushed the idea of perfectibility of man. (Google-search 'perfectibility communism' and 'perfectibility fascism' to see the similarity.) Their motivations? I suspect that much of it had to do with providing excuses as to why (for example) Communism didn't actually seem to work when it was tried. 'If people didn't seem to work to follow the latest 5-year plan, it must be because of their inherent inperfection, Comrade'. One illustrative example could be that the dictates of the famous 5-year plans wouldn't be very specific: Shoe factories were presumably told to make a billion pairs of shoes during the then-current 5-year plan. It was far easier to make a billion of the same style of shoe, rather than a selection that the public would actually want and buy. No doubt a "perfect person" was, rhetorically, a person who was willing to adjust his desires to the capabilities and function of the then-current (communist) government, rather than the government being required to adjust its output to the desires of a varied population. And what is the definition of a "rational actor", in that context? A self-interested individual makes choices for his own benefit, or those around here with which he has a special relationship. (Family, friends, etc.). The Communist ideal, I assume, was that a good Communist would always choose what is/was good for the public, or at least the State. Not quite the same thing. Jim Bell
On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 05:19:51PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
From: Joshua Case <jwcase@gmail.com>
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes? https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/ And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera. Hey, I don't like that either, but it is an unfortunately predictable consequence of misconduct at the other side of the political spectrum.
Ukraine, from the East side - speaks directly to nationalism, fascism and more: http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/03/be-patient-givi-full-episode.html
On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes?
Nazis murdered about twelve million or so. Maybe twenty million at most. Commies murdered well over a hundred million. Probably around one hundred and sixty million. Commies are continually committing massive acts of violence right now today, for example BLM ethnically cleansing Ferguson. You propose to pre-emptively exterminate Nazis, and then declare everyone who supports Trump, approximately fifty percent of Americans, to be a Nazi.
On Mar 3, 2017, at 2:01 PM, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:
On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes?
Nazis murdered about twelve million or so. Maybe twenty million at most. Commies murdered well over a hundred million. Probably around one hundred and sixty million.
Commies are continually committing massive acts of violence right now today, for example BLM ethnically cleansing Ferguson.
You propose to pre-emptively exterminate Nazis, and then declare everyone who supports Trump, approximately fifty percent of Americans, to be a Nazi.
James, will you please, for the list, copy paste and post where I proposed anything, other than thoughtfulness with respect to the political noise on the board who’s topic has become a subject of dispute recently? There is a tripartite disjunction that can be created from your message’s content - you are either stupid, did not read the material, or are just willfully disruptive. The actual Nazi’s have a more civil board, they seem to read each others posts before they reply.
On 3/4/2017 5:14 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
James, will you please, for the list, copy paste and post where I proposed anything, other than thoughtfulness with respect to the political noise on the board who’s topic has become a subject of dispute recently?
The proposition that of late there is a lot of nazism around, both ironic and unironic, needs to be balanced by the fact that there has long been a great deal more of entirely unironic communism around. Raising the brown scare in an environment where the red scare is still far more appropriate is like worrying about people being killed by witchcraft, in an environment where witches are frequently being burned at the stake, but examples of people being harmed by witchcraft seem to usually turn out to be fake. In the current environment, anyone who raises the brown scare is evil or insane. If I see anyone pointing at real, ironic, or imaginary nazis, I figure he is planning to kill me and kill my children, and in the current environment, and in view of recent events, that is a reasonable conclusion. You pointed at some real Nazis. I conclude you intend to murder me and everyone like me. This is a reasonable inference from the events of the twentieth century, where such pointing frequently has led to the deaths of everyone like me.
Leftist = Rightist = Centrist = totalitarian capitalist C'mon folks, the tired left vs right narrative has almost zero power to explain real politics. Everytime you play along and use those bogus terms, you obscure your own position and make the public discourse stupider. -- sent from my robot On Mar 3, 2017 11:34 PM, "Joshua Case" <jwcase@gmail.com> wrote:
On 3/4/2017 5:14 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
James, will you please, for the list, copy paste and post where I proposed anything, other than thoughtfulness with respect to the political noise on the board who’s topic has become a subject of dispute recently?
The proposition that of late there is a lot of nazism around, both ironic and unironic, needs to be balanced by the fact that there has long been a great deal more of entirely unironic communism around.
Raising the brown scare in an environment where the red scare is still far more appropriate is like worrying about people being killed by witchcraft, in an environment where witches are frequently being burned at the stake, but examples of people being harmed by witchcraft seem to usually turn out to be fake.
In the current environment, anyone who raises the brown scare is evil or insane.
If I see anyone pointing at real, ironic, or imaginary nazis, I figure he is planning to kill me and kill my children, and in the current environment, and in view of recent events, that is a reasonable conclusion.
You pointed at some real Nazis. I conclude you intend to murder me and everyone like me. This is a reasonable inference from the events of the twentieth century, where such pointing frequently has led to the deaths of everyone like me.
On 3/4/2017 3:20 PM, Jason McVetta wrote:
Leftist = Rightist = Centrist = totalitarian capitalist
C'mon folks, the tired left vs right narrative has almost zero power to explain real politics. Everytime you play along and use those bogus terms, you obscure your own position and make the public discourse stupider.
Politics is tribal. Sometimes apt to devolve into gang warfare. We are now in a situation where devolution into gang warfare seems likely. Consider Apple, now run by Cook, because he is gay. Cook is incompetent. Consider, for example, the Apple watch. If you buy an Apple watch, no one can tell that your watch comes from Apple. So Apple is now leaking coolness. Buying apple products no longer make you cool. He got his job, regardless of competence, because social justice warriors stick together. So Tribe A is stealing all the loot from Tribe B. Social Justice Warriors get paid for being social Justice Warriors. This creates an increasing risk that Tribe A and tribe B will come to blows. And it does not matter much that we call Tribe A commies and Tribe B fascists, because when the shooting starts, no one will remember their respective ideologies.
On Sat, 4 Mar 2017 05:01:51 +1000 "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:
On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes?
Nazis murdered about twelve million or so. Maybe twenty million at most. Commies murdered well over a hundred million. Probably around one hundred and sixty million.
LMAO at US - nazi - military propaganda.
On Sat, Mar 04, 2017 at 05:01:51AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum of some sort, yes?
Nazis murdered about twelve million or so. Maybe twenty million at most. Commies murdered well over a hundred million. Probably around one hundred and sixty million.
Commies are continually committing massive acts of violence right now today, for example BLM ethnically cleansing Ferguson.
You propose to pre-emptively exterminate Nazis, and then declare everyone who supports Trump, approximately fifty percent of Americans, to be a Nazi.
If they're not declared as "the ultimate evil people", then they couldn't be ethnically cleansed (well, it wouldn't be politically correct to do so...)
participants (7)
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James A. Donald -
Jason McVetta -
jim bell -
Joshua Case -
juan -
Razer -
Zenaan Harkness