New subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11

8 Jan 2015


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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL] (grarpamp)
   2. Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL] (Cathal (Phone))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 04:26:15 -0500
From: grarpamp 
To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
Subject: Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
Message-ID:
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Ted Smith  wrote:
...
On Wed, 2015-01-07 at 11:33 +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
...
The GPL acknowledges this by forbidding suits within the scope of the
work (I think: GPL experts on-list?), preventing E3 from occurring.
Other licenses often take steps in this direction, but the
ultra-short
"friendly and permissive" licenses usually don't
Probably because their model and vision is different, they're
not really out to modify the world beyond saying "here you
go, it's free", only out to modify the code, so they've little
interest in legal longtexts or lawyers.
...
...
terse and legally unenforceable way that they might as well not be.
The GPLv3+ contains this sort of patent protection
Section 10, last paragraph, last part. Don't know if that has been tested
in court as other parts have been in the news. And all of paragraph 11,
which grants patents.
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
...
...
Freedom is not merely defined in law but in experience, and simply
removing explicit limitations on freedom (copyleft licenses) does not
mean that the total freedom in the world has increased.
BSD advocates, I think, are not interested in total freedom in the
world. This is a CONSEQUENCE or OUTCOME of a choice, not the choice
itself.
...
boils down to consequentialist morals on the GPL side, and deontological
or rule-based morals on the BSD side.
Yes, depends on definition of freedom. Unfortunately GPL and BSD people
seem define that differently.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 10:40:37 +0000
From: "Cathal (Phone)" 
To: grarpamp , cypherpunks@cpunks.org
Subject: Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
Message-ID: <249E482B-33E1-4653-B035-8D06B083F6AB@cathalgarvey.me>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I don't think it's unfortunate, I think it's complementary. GPL is
valuable for trailblazing and stamping.out new territory because it
prevents E3, BSD is valuable because it helps shitty tech companies migrate
to standards that aren't total snakeoil. Between the two, the world
improves. Obviously I think GPL is better and more important, but that
doesn't mean I disparage or undervalue other open work.
On 8 January 2015 09:26:15 GMT+00:00, grarpamp  wrote:
...
...
On Wed, 2015-01-07 at 11:33 +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
...
The GPL acknowledges this by forbidding suits within the scope of
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Ted Smith  wrote:
the
...
...
work (I think: GPL experts on-list?), preventing E3 from occurring.
Other licenses often take steps in this direction, but the
ultra-short
"friendly and permissive" licenses usually don't
Probably because their model and vision is different, they're
not really out to modify the world beyond saying "here you
go, it's free", only out to modify the code, so they've little
interest in legal longtexts or lawyers.
...
...
terse and legally unenforceable way that they might as well not be.
The GPLv3+ contains this sort of patent protection
Section 10, last paragraph, last part. Don't know if that has been
tested
in court as other parts have been in the news. And all of paragraph 11,
which grants patents.
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
...
...
Freedom is not merely defined in law but in experience, and simply
removing explicit limitations on freedom (copyleft licenses) does
not
mean that the total freedom in the world has increased.
BSD advocates, I think, are not interested in total freedom in the
world. This is a CONSEQUENCE or OUTCOME of a choice, not the choice
itself.
...
boils down to consequentialist morals on the GPL side, and
deontological
or rule-based morals on the BSD side.
Yes, depends on definition of freedom. Unfortunately GPL and BSD people
seem define that differently.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11

John Elicker

Cathal (Phone)

grarpamp

stef

Juan

tags

participants (5)