Re: [tor-talk] Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 *Appelbaum*
On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:36:54PM +0300, ja.talk wrote:
https://nm.debian.org/public/person/error
Jacob Appelbaum
Account name error
OpenPGP fingerprint 043E 0E69 DD56 BA59 5905 8756 90BC 9192 B062 91B2
Status Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18
Debian is not, and never has been, about justice. Debian developer voting base has public foundations which fail to have any separation of powers - just a single public "community" executive/ power of authority, with no formal nor rigorous nor easy to identify appeal/ right of reply/response process. Debian is not about human rights. Debian is not about justice. Without foundations of human rights and justice, Debian fails fundamentally to provide an effective --long term-- foundation for effective community. Debian is about their operating system/ software distribution and packaging, and the whims of the developers who are the only ones who get to vote on anything. See Debian's Social Contract, which is all about (free libre) software, its utility and benefits, and even their "3. We will not hide problems" clause is purely utilitarian and software based, and has nothing to do about humans, rights, justice nor ethics! : https://www.debian.org/social_contract and Debian's Code of Conduct : https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct Debian fails to have any of: - due process - separation of powers - right to respond - right to appeal - ethical foundation - principled foundation other than utility And before you leap in with an excessively quick "oh, you can respond, just send an email" - take notice, if it is not written into the foundation rights, there is no such right in operation in Debian! So take your false beliefs and read Debian's foundation documents again before embarrassing yourself publicly. --- Fundamentally, with only a "be excellent to each other" hippy ethos, tyranny can (and I say in the long term shall) reign supreme; despots can hide, well intentioned idiots can pave abundant roads to hell, and all without realising their mistakes nor the years of damage to their hailed "community", since that damage is predominantly unseen. Debian is no friend to ethics nor justice nor fundamental community building principles - nothing more than the grandiose principle of "Utility"! Yes, "free libre software" is indeed more useful than proprietary closed source software. You heard it here first. Debian? An excellent operating system for a certain category of individual. Just don't expect your idea of community to remotely prevail within the "Debian" project.
On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 09:00:24PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Debian fails to have any of: - due process
I am very disappointed by the quality of debian. They appear GNU utopists like juan's anarchism utopia -- with garbage source you can't make tens of hundreds of non-shit packages. The openssl drama borders with malice and at best is cheap social engineering of debianz IMHO. Not that closed source is any better.
Dnia poniedziałek, 20 czerwca 2016 21:00:24 CEST Zenaan Harkness pisze:
On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:36:54PM +0300, ja.talk wrote:
https://nm.debian.org/public/person/error
Jacob Appelbaum
Account name error
OpenPGP fingerprint 043E 0E69 DD56 BA59 5905 8756 90BC 9192 B062 91B2
Status Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18
Debian is not, and never has been, about justice.
Debian developer voting base has public foundations which fail to have any separation of powers - just a single public "community" executive/ power of authority, with no formal nor rigorous nor easy to identify appeal/ right of reply/response process.
That sounds like anarchy -- that's good, right? Juan, help me out here! -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:37:39 +0200 rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia poniedziałek, 20 czerwca 2016 21:00:24 CEST Zenaan Harkness pisze:
Debian developer voting base has public foundations which fail to have any separation of powers - just a single public "community" executive/ power of authority, with no formal nor rigorous nor easy to identify appeal/ right of reply/response process.
That sounds like anarchy --
Well, if by anarchy you mean the opposite of anarchy? then yes. War is peace.
that's good, right?
What I gather from Zen's post is that debian has some governing body wich involves 'voting', so democracy eh? isn't that 'good'? And the governing body, like any governing body, has the last word and THAT is exactly what statism is all about. Your state has the last word, you either obey 'the law' or die. THAT is your system, rysiek, the opposite of anarchy. And in reality Debian isn't completely statist, because, although Debian's 'government' seems autocratic, they don't force you to use Debian AND if you use it, you can change the software in any way you like, that being the principle behind free software, which in turn happens to be pretty 'anarchic'.
Juan, help me out here!
Hopefully you'd find something helpful in the above tirade...
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 02:41:26PM -0300, juan wrote:
that's good, right?
What I gather from Zen's post is that debian has some governing body wich involves 'voting', so democracy eh? isn't that 'good'?
And the governing body, like any governing body, has the last word and THAT is exactly what statism is all about. Your state has the last word, you either obey 'the law' or die. THAT is your system, rysiek, the opposite of anarchy.
And in reality Debian isn't completely statist, because, although Debian's 'government' seems autocratic, they don't force you to use Debian AND if you use it, you can change the software in any way you like, that being the principle behind free software, which in turn happens to be pretty 'anarchic'.
Your assessment of Debian corresponds to my understanding. For those who just can't get enough of The Man "demoncraticly" imposing his collective will on you, you might be sad to read the following and find some empathy with one of the world's all time greatest democracy promoters, George Soros: Soros Complains Russia Now 'Global Power' While EU 'Falling Apart' Has the billionaire regime-change architect finally admitted defeat? http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/aww-thats-shame-soros-complains-russia... A dejected George Soros confessed yesterday that not all is proceeding according to his grand design. Photo: Business magnate George Soros arrives to speak at the Open Russia Club in London, Britain June 20, 2016 Attending a London pow-wow with fellow Russia-haters, the world's most infamous private "democracy" promoter had this to say, according to Reuters ( http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-soros-idUSKCN0Z629H ): Billionaire investor George Soros said on Monday he saw Russia emerging as a global power as the European Union collapses, in much the same way as the EU flourished when the Soviet Union started falling. Soros added that he felt "more than ever" that the EU's destiny hinged on Ukraine's future, speaking in London at an event hosted by the Open Russia, a Russian opposition movement founded by Kremlin critic Mikhail Khodorkovsky. So the future of the European Union hinges on a bankrupt, failed state run by oligarchs, Nazi militia, mafia and general psychopaths ( http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/shocking-confession-ukranian-dr-evil-b... ). I'm sure the French, Germans, and Italians are gratified to hear that. Somehow I think they probably disagree. European nations have lost billions in trade with Russia since the introduction of sanctions - which they are apparently renewing ( http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160621/1041666675/eu-russia-sanctions.html ) once again at Washington's demand. If this is the future they will be tied to, all the more reason for the British to vote to leave the EU on June 23. But Soros hasn't given up on the EU dream completely - he wrote ( http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36582026 ) in The Guardian today attempting to scare British voters that going through with Brexit will collapse the pound. Soros is probably growing frustrated at the increasingly hard time he is having at building the new world order he wants. Russia's not cooperating, and populations in Europe are supporting EU-skeptic parties while American voters are supporting Trump. Here's hoping he meets continued disappointment. His misfortune is the world's gain.
participants (4)
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Georgi Guninski -
juan -
rysiek -
Zenaan Harkness