Re: HTML List Abuse (was: "please ignore: this is only a test")
i somewhat understand the situation thanks to feedback... the problems here involve a broken pc and porting texts from one platform into Gmail, where formatting errors and line wrap issues exist, thus unreliable rendering of emails. since the list does not send me a copy of my own posts, the archives in plain text are what i see as to the filetype, not realizing it may be rendered as HTML email elsewhere, because data only appears in plain text anywhere i see it this whole time i never figured it was about my posts due to this, unless somehow MINE attachments were what was referenced - yet only HTML was repeatedly scolded. in approximately two months, looking at emails, i have only seen a few examples of HTML email that i recognize, mainly because of formatted or colored text, and did not connect this with the *scrubbing* of the HTML content, associated with the way the email is being processed by the list management software -- which i thought is neutralizing the HTML formatting before it goes out thus, if there is a setting to receive plain text, why not subscribe to that option, for that situation, i do not yet comprehend what is going on as these posts render in mailboxes elsewhere, if they are indeed HTML or it just involves a footer with links to the scrubbed html and associated attachments, aka multipart MIME (?) i tested plain text resend (locally) of the last file and it renders Unicode ok, so will try that approach though mystery formatting issues persist with Gmail (and, as an indication of deterioration of usability, they recently removed 'translate' from Google search, so downgrading functionality in email also seems likely, with formatting and limited reply or other control over email content)... that said, i do not know (for lack of getting a copy of emails myself) if graphics are sent out as attachments or scrubbed and archived on the list (which i assumed, given the footer attachment data). the reason for not direct linking everything is to keep a copy in archive, in case i delete drop-box, so the essays have basic content for a few ideas requiring of some diagrams. if that multipart MIME attachment is the issue, is it not possible to somehow 'not view attachments' if they are sent out, or filter such messages, versus stop visual messaging of relevance to list content, because someone somewhere does not want that, and it is a potential security threat if 'weaponized', in that it is a way of attacking through delivery, etc what is a forum without ideas, how much security to protect what, security talk about security tech yet no conceptualization beyond those boundaries, like what is crypto, what are the concepts, where are various peoples understandings and interests, and might some visual information help assist the conceptual issues, or is it text-only, no imagery. because then it is just not worth it, trying to share new views and ideas about issues of crypto today not everything fits into text or a 77 character line width. these tools suck for communicating and sharing ideas. it is self-punishing even to try to share ideas online. everything goes against viewpoints that are not already agreed upon as part of the existing perspective. it takes and requires a significant effort to build up an alternative model and this requires some additional visual data to make points or frameworks otherwise not possible in text alone, and things are beyond Lynx interfaces as an email exchange scenario, to limit exchange to those parameters is perhaps too limiting even, unless what is said here is supposed to be secure in some way that i do not comprehend, like this data is under attack maybe i just do not get it, what the issues are. are online forums not to communicate ideas and while mobile and other platforms exist, there are many examples in code of how data is ported to those interfaces, not determined by it, because it is a different set of requirements, ex: m.mobile.tld 1) will try to send plain text, if formatting is retained, this will include a few attachments for the list archive 2) MIME-footer scenario will continue. unknown if these images go out to everyone- my assumption is that they went directly to the list archive: scrubbed with HTML... 2a) if attachments go out to list members, is there is a way to choose not to receive them, via list software, 2b) if images go straight to archive is there any issue 3) is there disagreement on attachments. no images and i am gone, cannot communicate the ideas. i can Dropbox them-- never meant to impose the imagery on every mailbox, especially if a security threat. yet it seems more secure to email than Dropbox them, potentially, if somehow the file was remote altered while stored static. assumed a central list archive was holding imagery via the scrubbing process. 4) what would resolve the issues... i do not see how to avoid multipart MIME footers with image attachments, yet perhaps however many list member should have to goto an URL to retrieve attached image content than have it arrive with the email. i am a believer in the text + image approach for emails, i think it is too low a limit on communication to take out visuals in basic exchange because much more can be communicated w/ diagrams. unfortunately everything is against this, even in-line images are no longer an option in email and webmail software... thus forcing text-only, sign-based, linearity like this feedback? p.s. used to ASCII diagram extensively yet no longer have tools able to control monospace fonts this way. any pointers to online resources for creating technical diagrams using ascii for email communications and the settings needed greatly appreciated. saw this online documentation the other day and its formatting is ideal, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-prismproof-trust-00 why is it so impossible to get that kind of control over text, and how do technical diagrams get rendered in ASCII (no examples here, rare to encounter them) and where to learn how to do this. not online ASCII-image translators and instead, are there tools and settings for text editors or does Gmail limit this from happening. tried Outlook yet it is insane and unusable. cannot find the new mail button even. fake whois. sick software experimentation. Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 08:43:01PM -0500, brian carroll wrote:
hello. as far as i know, this is not HTML, it is a unicode message.
It was a multipart message:
I 1 <no description> [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.9K] I 2 ├─><no description> [text/plain, 7bit, utf-8, 1.2K] I 3 └─><no description> [text/html, quoted, utf-8, 2.5K]
Who cares? That's a lot of words about a non-issue. — http://makehacklearn.org On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 8:16 PM, brian carroll <electromagnetize@gmail.com> wrote:
i somewhat understand the situation thanks to feedback... the problems here involve a broken pc and porting texts from one platform into Gmail, where formatting errors and line wrap issues exist, thus unreliable rendering of emails. since the list does not send me a copy of my own posts, the archives in plain text are what i see as to the filetype, not realizing it may be rendered as HTML email elsewhere, because data only appears in plain text anywhere i see it this whole time i never figured it was about my posts due to this, unless somehow MINE attachments were what was referenced - yet only HTML was repeatedly scolded. in approximately two months, looking at emails, i have only seen a few examples of HTML email that i recognize, mainly because of formatted or colored text, and did not connect this with the *scrubbing* of the HTML content, associated with the way the email is being processed by the list management software -- which i thought is neutralizing the HTML formatting before it goes out thus, if there is a setting to receive plain text, why not subscribe to that option, for that situation, i do not yet comprehend what is going on as these posts render in mailboxes elsewhere, if they are indeed HTML or it just involves a footer with links to the scrubbed html and associated attachments, aka multipart MIME (?) i tested plain text resend (locally) of the last file and it renders Unicode ok, so will try that approach though mystery formatting issues persist with Gmail (and, as an indication of deterioration of usability, they recently removed 'translate' from Google search, so downgrading functionality in email also seems likely, with formatting and limited reply or other control over email content)... that said, i do not know (for lack of getting a copy of emails myself) if graphics are sent out as attachments or scrubbed and archived on the list (which i assumed, given the footer attachment data). the reason for not direct linking everything is to keep a copy in archive, in case i delete drop-box, so the essays have basic content for a few ideas requiring of some diagrams. if that multipart MIME attachment is the issue, is it not possible to somehow 'not view attachments' if they are sent out, or filter such messages, versus stop visual messaging of relevance to list content, because someone somewhere does not want that, and it is a potential security threat if 'weaponized', in that it is a way of attacking through delivery, etc what is a forum without ideas, how much security to protect what, security talk about security tech yet no conceptualization beyond those boundaries, like what is crypto, what are the concepts, where are various peoples understandings and interests, and might some visual information help assist the conceptual issues, or is it text-only, no imagery. because then it is just not worth it, trying to share new views and ideas about issues of crypto today not everything fits into text or a 77 character line width. these tools suck for communicating and sharing ideas. it is self-punishing even to try to share ideas online. everything goes against viewpoints that are not already agreed upon as part of the existing perspective. it takes and requires a significant effort to build up an alternative model and this requires some additional visual data to make points or frameworks otherwise not possible in text alone, and things are beyond Lynx interfaces as an email exchange scenario, to limit exchange to those parameters is perhaps too limiting even, unless what is said here is supposed to be secure in some way that i do not comprehend, like this data is under attack maybe i just do not get it, what the issues are. are online forums not to communicate ideas and while mobile and other platforms exist, there are many examples in code of how data is ported to those interfaces, not determined by it, because it is a different set of requirements, ex: m.mobile.tld 1) will try to send plain text, if formatting is retained, this will include a few attachments for the list archive 2) MIME-footer scenario will continue. unknown if these images go out to everyone- my assumption is that they went directly to the list archive: scrubbed with HTML... 2a) if attachments go out to list members, is there is a way to choose not to receive them, via list software, 2b) if images go straight to archive is there any issue 3) is there disagreement on attachments. no images and i am gone, cannot communicate the ideas. i can Dropbox them-- never meant to impose the imagery on every mailbox, especially if a security threat. yet it seems more secure to email than Dropbox them, potentially, if somehow the file was remote altered while stored static. assumed a central list archive was holding imagery via the scrubbing process. 4) what would resolve the issues... i do not see how to avoid multipart MIME footers with image attachments, yet perhaps however many list member should have to goto an URL to retrieve attached image content than have it arrive with the email. i am a believer in the text + image approach for emails, i think it is too low a limit on communication to take out visuals in basic exchange because much more can be communicated w/ diagrams. unfortunately everything is against this, even in-line images are no longer an option in email and webmail software... thus forcing text-only, sign-based, linearity like this feedback? p.s. used to ASCII diagram extensively yet no longer have tools able to control monospace fonts this way. any pointers to online resources for creating technical diagrams using ascii for email communications and the settings needed greatly appreciated. saw this online documentation the other day and its formatting is ideal, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-prismproof-trust-00 why is it so impossible to get that kind of control over text, and how do technical diagrams get rendered in ASCII (no examples here, rare to encounter them) and where to learn how to do this. not online ASCII-image translators and instead, are there tools and settings for text editors or does Gmail limit this from happening. tried Outlook yet it is insane and unusable. cannot find the new mail button even. fake whois. sick software experimentation. Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 08:43:01PM -0500, brian carroll wrote:
hello. as far as i know, this is not HTML, it is a unicode message.
It was a multipart message:
I 1 <no description> [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.9K] I 2 ├─><no description> [text/plain, 7bit, utf-8, 1.2K] I 3 └─><no description> [text/html, quoted, utf-8, 2.5K]
Al Billings wrote:
Who cares? That's a lot of words about a non-issue.
i am like a robot. i do not understand. i need the situation explained step by step so i can do whatever is needed in those parameters to improve the interaction else i could just say fuck it though it is a valid point if sending unnecessary chaos due to approach that could be tweaked and limit problems it would be helpful though if someone was angry about my posts to let me know it was my texts so i could address the concern, the sideways complaining is confusing perhaps it is karmic symmetry of some kind, online ghosts
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
i am like a robot. i do not understand. i need the situation explained step by step so i can do whatever is needed in those parameters to improve the interaction
All I've ever seen is plain text. I use Thunderbird and I keep "view message body as plain text" toggled on always, so no matter the source - - gmail, yahoo, VT100, it's always plain text. But even cycling thru the various htnl options, it looks the same. I still think the content may be clever steganography or a deranged AI, but the format seems fine to me... my .01 cent, adjusted downward for inflation. D. - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSYgHpAAoJEDMbeBxcUNAe47AH/3grzWYkFtztlIZfSYjXpJTW QvM939qKUMsxdnByD6NozVhBoPzuoiJbky3NQbNSeTHQMqMgJCXt9NEIISN3VXad 0pOqovJ2+9dGo3xGsbvGQuOHqW6Y32fsOkfHc6KAfndPT/89VjOYtESeWYW8AfjF EQfZBfOtqlH7dBuhVl7m2KQMksYxXMZzYW86VfXGDsSJTmwnVxmEztD+1B7AB/R0 Q1stDZTtmBvIAqA3ktoxkxKcKuXrX4G6SX1qfBA21Ki6xzfxub7HSHCVDCOaEH34 DmiX5+i9sOzW6pONUdVoOHwXy9Gayx6M700ioIZXqJP2ZKBYc154nXULVIXKu9o= =BE8R -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
For a second there I thought this was a sestina. On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 8:29 PM, brian carroll <electromagnetize@gmail.com>wrote:
Al Billings wrote:
Who cares? That's a lot of words about a non-issue.
i am like a robot. i do not understand. i need the situation explained step by step so i can do whatever is needed in those parameters to improve the interaction
else i could just say fuck it though it is a valid point if sending unnecessary chaos due to approach that could be tweaked and limit problems
it would be helpful though if someone was angry about my posts to let me know it was my texts so i could address the concern, the sideways complaining is confusing
perhaps it is karmic symmetry of some kind, online ghosts
On Fri, 18 Oct 2013, brian carroll wrote:
Al Billings wrote:
Who cares? That's a lot of words about a non-issue.
i am like a robot. i do not understand.
Trust me: we all get that.
i need the situation explained step by step so i can do whatever is needed in those parameters to improve the interaction
Take Al's [deliberately kind] hint: reduce the aperture of your faucet: the gushing gallons of word salad is drowning out whatever it is you are trying to say. //Alif -- Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. An American Spring is coming: one way or another.
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:10 PM, brian carroll <electromagnetize@gmail.com> wrote:
from one platform into Gmail, where formatting errors and line wrap issues exist, thus unreliable rendering of emails.
Gmail's support for those things is poor at best.
since the list does not send me a copy of my own posts,
Gmail may be doing some deduplication here. On some lists, if I immediately delete a sent test post, I'll then notice the list copy come in later.
not realizing it may be rendered as HTML email elsewhere, because data only appears in plain text anywhere i see it
Depending on configuration, gmail web sends just: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 mailinator and spamavert probably still have decent raw view[er]s to test with.
these tools suck for communicating and sharing ideas. it is self-punishing even to try to share ideas online. everything goes against viewpoints that are not already agreed upon as part of the existing perspective. it takes
The hidden services of Tor, I2P, Freenet and so on exist in part to give people the freedom to publish whatever they want from their own machines in their own creative ways.
participants (6)
-
Al Billings -
brian carroll -
d.nix -
grarpamp -
J.A. Terranson -
Nathan Loofbourrow