May it be true the spies admit defeat. But not likely, more likely a ruse, for they are highly trained liars and tricksters. Feints are commonplace to disarm and delude opponents. Pardons of Manning and Snowden, shutdown investigating of Assange, and several other intimidating and chilling operations would be persuasive. Hearings on abuse would help air the stench. But will not eliminate the rot of secrecy. These formulaic conciliatory gestures would be cheap discounts of giant budgets for ancient practices of extorting money from the public, for, what else, protection, protection against government defined threats, identified by secret means. The spying apparatus will re-surge as it has forever, governments cannot survive without spying on its taxpayers. IRS and global revenue agencies the main data collectors on citizens and subjects from birth to death for everyone everywhere, even spies. SSN the ubiquitous UID. Got a problem with that, go to jail. Tax refusers and evaders more stigmatized and loathed than terrorists. Joint Terrorism Task Forces around the world spend more time chasing and prosecuting voluminous tax cheats then the tiny number of terrorists. With their contractors this produces handsome tax revenue, confiscations and fines. Prison populations too. Spying was invented to catch tax cheats and assure revenue for government operation and rule, and nothing unites the world's governments more than that essential transfusion of money to sustain government beneficiares, in the US the three branches, state and local. Military merely cops to control obedient payment. In NYC, the racket of Wall Street is to pay NYPD to stay away from finance through the Police Foundation. The recently published "Enemies Within," by two AP reporters recount how this has come about through the services of David Cohen, formerly CIA Director of Operations, who has set a completely unaccountable spying operation. Prior to setting this up, Ray Kelly, NYPD chief, and Cohen worked for Wall Street firms. Mayor Bloomberg happily endorsing the 1% bribery methodology. Nobody should believe this will change without a lot more than hopeful dreaming. At 08:08 AM 9/14/2013, you wrote:

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:43 AM, John Young <jya@pipeline.com> wrote:

...

... (now even Clapper is applauding the Snowden campaign, which stinks of the fix is in on what to release and when).

MI6 also downplaying.

but if you read between the lines, this is signalling defeat.

they're fucked; the docs will leak, ongoing, in a tight fisted drip of insufficient and insufferable dribble... perhaps this is their zen state - nothing to do but see how much is burned, and continues to be burned, for months and years ahead.

watch for indications of political fights and influence, lobbying, persuasion, LOVEINT blackmail? cut part or much funding and they've really got a problem!