Re: The Unbreakable Cipher (2)
coderman wrote:
you're wrong.
perfect. thank you (though assumption was more like MMORPG as distributed parallel network keying same space from many unique vantages, where environment* is of different structures and conceptualizations and parts do not necessarily align into a clear 'whole' view, including if many-many exchanges function beyond limits of model or framework) i think i grasp a fundamental concept of crypto that relates size of message (message length) with design of algorithmic structure needed to successfully embed or hide the message else hidden order may be easily visible/discovered i still contend this is different for set theory and models of noise - yet assume equations in that space could function differently and could have other design requirements or crypto principles perhaps more shallow if hiding in massive noise or equations to nest data in higher-dimensional matrices or at various levels, presumably unlike what appears a more static, confined construct of linear equationspace and its requirements in that 'keys' could function differently in bit set approach though perhaps rekeying is universal as a security principle yet potentially flawed if it could reveal a particular structure leading to its compromise whereas reusing an 'infinity key' (regenerating keys or using same key in new instantiations, accessing different arbitrary structure as keychain multitool) may function in a different context than existing approaches, in some way- which relates to the dataspace; such that perhaps the key itself is noisy or indeterminate as to what exactly the key is though this speculation could all be false. *(though of cipher environment presumed 'outside' the capacity of computers to process, rationalize accurately, thus not contained in electronic boxes; thus beyond modeled computer space, infinitely so)
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:34 AM, brian carroll <electromagnetize@gmail.com> wrote:
coderman wrote:
you're wrong.
perfect. thank you
brian: you're a verbose individual. but you respond usefully *grin*
i think i grasp a fundamental concept of crypto that relates size of message (message length) with design of algorithmic structure needed to successfully embed or hide the message else hidden order may be easily visible/discovered
it is interesting how these fundamentals change across public key systems, and the ideal one time pad. symmetric ciphers are a particular beast... (and combined authentication and encryption modes even more particular ;)
i still contend this is different for set theory and models of noise ...
in that 'keys' could function differently in bit set approach though perhaps rekeying is universal as a security principle yet potentially flawed if it could reveal a particular structure leading to its compromise...
in a poor implementation or protocol, re-keying can provide an opportunity for cipher suite downgrade or other privacy destroying attacks. effective frequent re-keying requires the other INFOSEC/OPSEC dependencies be met!
whereas reusing an 'infinity key' (regenerating keys or using same key in new instantiations, accessing different arbitrary structure as keychain multitool) may function in a different context than existing approaches,
note that for all intents and purposes, you should use a fresh, absolutely random key for each re-keying. key "stretching" or derivation methods suffer the same types of vulnerabilities over large enough output that the original cipher does. instead of spending your time trying to securely "stretch" a few keys, just generate a large number of perfectly random keys instead!
Dne 26.9.2013 11:34, brian carroll napsal(a):
coderman wrote:
you're wrong. perfect. thank you
(though assumption was more like MMORPG as distributed parallel network keying same space from many unique vantages, where environment* is of different structures and conceptualizations and parts do not necessarily align into a clear 'whole' view, including if many-many exchanges function beyond limits of model or framework)
i think i grasp a fundamental concept of crypto that relates size of message (message length) with design of algorithmic structure needed to successfully embed or hide the message else hidden order may be easily visible/discovered
i still contend this is different for set theory and models of noise - yet assume equations in that space could function differently and could have other design requirements or crypto principles perhaps more shallow if hiding in massive noise or equations to nest data in higher-dimensional matrices or at various levels, presumably unlike what appears a more static, confined construct of linear equationspace and its requirements
in that 'keys' could function differently in bit set approach though perhaps rekeying is universal as a security principle yet potentially flawed if it could reveal a particular structure leading to its compromise whereas reusing an 'infinity key' (regenerating keys or using same key in new instantiations, accessing different arbitrary structure as keychain multitool) may function in a different context than existing approaches, in some way- which relates to the dataspace; such that perhaps the key itself is noisy or indeterminate as to what exactly the key is
though this speculation could all be false.
*(though of cipher environment presumed 'outside' the capacity of computers to process, rationalize accurately, thus not contained in electronic boxes; thus beyond modeled computer space, infinitely so)
Hi, I like your model of different points of view and strange methods of communication as base for some surrealistic RPG, which lead me to idea: - imagine, that you have players of the game, that are able to understand surreal logic of the game and now one of them is killed by game-master, possibly because game-master do not like this person or something like. So now you have rouge ex-player who do understand whole "system" perfectly, all surreal concepts are clear to him, no problem with all that CHAO magic. And as cypher it just behave as cypher with hidden logic, which does not work as soon as logic is revealed. But again, I like that concept as RPG setting, to have PC, that are communicating by juggling and music [different languages ], NPC that have problem to understand, what is still code and what is only noise pattern... unwillinglingly transmited informations [veneric or other diseases + gene modification]... pasterns in the void. Really surreal and I do like it a lot, but as hidden and obscure it is inapplicable. Btw when we are in surreal mood: Have you ever tried to think about moment, when most of the informations public available is coded by some artificial system [cypher sets] and there will be some inherited civilization without enough e.g. computing power to just count algorithms even they know it function and in worst case even the key. Imagine all of the data/informations lost in case we do not understand ASCII or UTF-X table anymore. Just example of another Baabel world to play with. [related: Jorge Luis Borges : Babel Library] Sorry for OT, in case of any, in this thread [PARACrypto] to subject? ~ Over -- “Borders I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people.” ― Thor Heyerdahl www...................http://overdrive.a-nihil.net twitter...............https://twitter.com/#!/idoru23 blog..................http://d8ofh8.blogspot.com GnuPG public key......http://overdrive.a-nihil.net/overdrive.txt GnuPG key FingerPrint.072C C0AD 88EF F681 5E52 5329 8483 4860 6E19 949D
participants (3)
-
brian carroll -
coderman -
Tomas Overdrive Petru