Cryptocurrency: acceptable coinage/ currency/ money
On 10/11/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
gold coins are a lot better than any form of 'crypto currency'.
As before, perhaps yes, until it is considered that no one really wants to be carrying around a medieval sack of metal all day, let alone figuring out how to shave it into exact change, nor dealing with proving assay against fake metals, getting robbed with not even a forced password in the way, etc. If their lifestyle, foolish or not, is digital and further involves carrying around a digital device (phone, which must admit the entire planet mostly already does), then the better form of currency for them is likely to be a distributed private cryptocurrency. It sure as fuck isn't Fiat paper, Facebook Libra, or any other centralized non privacy corporate or government coin. And you're not very likely to convince world of adopting metals before crypto, thus metal advocacy will add more time delay before government demise. Nor can you manage your [space consuming] hoard of metals in near as many creative ways as crypto. Etc. Use both (for when they shut the internet down), or one, or keep licking boots.
Schear:
I very much doubt any money system can fix the economic and social environment within which its embedded. A more effective lever for change is to make unnecessary as many of the current economic underpinnings as possible.
One likely approach is the development, to practicality and widespread application, of ... local, and make communities (or even individuals) practically independent (i.e. off-ecconomic as well as off-grid) then the economic and social pyramid could greatly flatten and deny small numbers their privileged positions.
Distributed privacy cryptocurrencies will moot non-local underpinnings of control by routing around them towards communities of global independants. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZfjGOj4FT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfsIZioIpdI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUyccrvf1Q Ignore the statists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqsmCUo3xEQ Demonstrate to half million people their own easy swiss bank account get them transacting among themselves locally and watch how fast it grows.
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 22:48:44 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/11/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
gold coins are a lot better than any form of 'crypto currency'.
As before, perhaps yes, until it is considered that no one really wants to be carrying around a medieval sack of metal
here we go, again. Technocratic fucking idiocy spewed by people who don't actually know economics. I already dealt with your garbage grarpamp. Check the archives.
On 10/12/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
carrying around a medieval sack of metal
economics.
Then explain the economics of sacks of gold vs stacks of sats. Don't forget to address trusting physical storage, grab sack and run street theft, transmitting gold over distances for purchases, support, donations, assay... and whatever other problems people raise against metals. And if all you want is to raise llamas and veggies on your farm till you die, which is a fine life indeed, one that everyone could consider, then just admit and teach on that topic. But do not go around trying to use that choice as argument against others choosing some spectrum of tech, starships, etc. Unless you can both define for people what your "libertarian culture" is, which you still have not done, and then show that it not only prevents whatever you fear in "tech", but actually precludes "tech" from ever happening, such as on perhaps say "moral" acceptability grounds, or mechanically against "natural law", or whatever other grounds you still have yet to define.
And gold and silver coin are perhaps the only reasonable foundation for any digital coin.
I wouldn't put too much 'faith' in such a system. The moment you exchange actual real physical coins for some digital IOU you have a problem.
Right. Anything "backed" by anything by "backers" is, even under the most #Open of audits, and enforced by the most enlightened or severe counter mechanisms, still highly likely to become broken backing in the end. Look at Tether-USDT, supposedly "backed" 1:1 by USD... $4B in completely un-#OpenAudited centralized un-privacy shitcoin with already shitty history... people are fools to keep any level of time X value product in it. Same with Ripple-XRP and all the other centralized non-privacy shitcoins. (Even Bitcoin-BTC, though somewhat distributed, still has massive privacy weakness to assault by Censors and Regulators... that's fatal. As such, BTC is a shitcoin by privacy metric, at least until they do privacy, preferably in the protocol.) And even if Fiat shitcoins and Libras win, and crush out true fully distributed privacy coins... they will lose to corruption in the end, just like all Fiat and Governments do. So don't use those shitcoins and backing, they're pointless and no different than Fiat and Gov. Try and use the only truly new tech on the block... distributed privacy capable coins. Even first gen ones like XMR ZEC BCH have at least some capabilities there beyond what BTC offers. And try old tech that's never really been given try before either... Libertarian, Voluntary, Anarchist.
Though admitedly the problem may be mitigated in a libertarian culture.
Teaching as such against theft and backing breaking will not 100% prevent such central humans from acting as garbage, only reduce and better manage it. Even so, that's better progress than nothing today. Crypto, metals, commodities, labor, wisdom and more... people can find complementary. Fiat / shitcoin / even Govt... are jokes, a King over slaves, an assault upon those freedom things.
On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 15:43:40 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/12/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
carrying around a medieval sack of metal
economics.
Then explain the economics of sacks of gold vs stacks of sats.
Don't forget to address trusting physical storage, grab sack and run street theft, transmitting gold over distances for purchases, support, donations, assay...
We already discussed all that. But let me make just one point again : Assaying gold vs/ assaying 'cryptocurrency'. Virtually anybody can assay gold leaf using the flame test. Now, on the other hand, how do you 'assay' a bitcoin? You need to connect to the NSA global surveillance network aka internet, using NSA backdoored hardware, and use cryptographic algorithms that very very few people actually understand. As a side note, we could laughably assume that the hardware isn't backdoored. How would you then check or 'assay' if it actually is? Well, easy. You just have to reverse engineer all the ICs and make sure you understand how they work down to the last bit. So back to economics. A key principle in economics is to look at the whole picture which includes hidden costs. In this case some people mighy like to believe that 'assaying' cryptocurrency is so much easier than assaying gold. You just press a magic button! In reality of course the total costs for cryptocurrency systems are astronomical. Compare them to the knowledge, skill and 'capital' needed to refine gold. Hell, you can even pick pure gold off the ground.
and whatever other problems people raise against metals.
As already discussed, a lot of those problems exist for 'crytocurrencies' too. Govcorp agents can torture you so that you tell them where you buried your gold, or where you hid the paper with your private key, or what's the password for your disk, etc.
And if all you want is to raise llamas and veggies on your farm till you die, which is a fine life indeed, one that everyone could consider, then just admit and teach on that topic.
You're presenting two unrelated things like living in a farm and using gold as money as if they were related. and worse, mutually exlusive. Gold has been used for global commerce since the dawn of history until 1970 when the US finished destroying the gold standard.
But do not go around trying to use that choice as argument against others choosing some spectrum of tech, starships, etc.
If you want starships for their own sake, so be it. Make completely sure that you pay for the last cent unsed to build them out of your pocket, instead of having the military industrial complex loot the world to fund your 'starships'. But there are 'libertarian' retards who think that they will solve political problems by running away instead of fighting, and 'colinizing' mars and the milky way. Yet another example of the unhinged religious belief that 'technology' can 'solve anything'.
Unless you can both define for people what your "libertarian culture" is, which you still have not done,
The term seems self-evident. But if you want an example, look at jew-kkkristian western culture. A libertarian culture is the exact opposite.
and then show that it not only prevents whatever you fear in "tech",
It's not that I 'fear' anything in 'tech'. The thing is, I KNOW how 'tech' and political power interact. And I KNOW that 'tech' gives EVEN MORE POWER to the supreme criminal scum who already have tons of power.
but actually precludes "tech" from ever happening, such as on perhaps say "moral" acceptability grounds, or mechanically against "natural law", or whatever other grounds you still have yet to define.
And gold and silver coin are perhaps the only reasonable foundation for any digital coin.
I wouldn't put too much 'faith' in such a system. The moment you exchange actual real physical coins for some digital IOU you have a problem.
Right. Anything "backed" by anything by "backers" is, even under the most #Open of audits, and enforced by the most enlightened or severe counter mechanisms, still highly likely to become broken backing in the end.
Look at Tether-USDT, supposedly "backed" 1:1 by USD... $4B in completely un-#OpenAudited centralized un-privacy shitcoin with already shitty history... people are fools to keep any level of time X value product in it. Same with Ripple-XRP and all the other centralized non-privacy shitcoins.
ripple is evil as fuck, by design and theny don't even pretend to hide it.
(Even Bitcoin-BTC, though somewhat distributed, still has massive privacy weakness to assault by Censors and Regulators... that's fatal.
As such, BTC is a shitcoin by privacy metric, at least until they do privacy, preferably in the protocol.)
privacy has to be mandatory like in monero. Anyway, going back to the libertarian culture thing, bitcoin can be used to illustrate the concept. Despite its privacy limitations, bitcoin does have some 'censorship resistance', and it allows ppl to have actual ownership of the funds/keys. Now, look at the 20 millions of fucktards who are 'customers' of the US govt agency known as 'coinbase' (founded by a wall street jew). Those 20 millions of fucktards only care about bitcoin as a means to get rich quick and/or gambling. Those sorry assholes have 'voluntary' given their keys to the US govt/coinbase, and 'voluntary' submit to coinbase-NSA surveillance. If on the other hand the 'public' cared about freedom instead of buying a new car, worthless scum like coinbase CEOs would be begging pn the streets, instead of subverting bitcoin.
And even if Fiat shitcoins and Libras win, and crush out true fully distributed privacy coins... they will lose to corruption in the end, just like all Fiat and Governments do.
So don't use those shitcoins and backing, they're pointless and no different than Fiat and Gov.
Try and use the only truly new tech on the block... distributed privacy capable coins. Even first gen ones like XMR ZEC BCH have at least some capabilities there beyond what BTC offers.
And try old tech that's never really been given try before either... Libertarian, Voluntary, Anarchist.
Though admitedly the problem may be mitigated in a libertarian culture.
Teaching as such against theft and backing breaking will not 100% prevent such central humans from acting as garbage, only reduce and better manage it. Even so, that's better progress than nothing today.
Crypto, metals, commodities, labor, wisdom and more... people can find complementary.
Fiat / shitcoin / even Govt... are jokes, a King over slaves, an assault upon those freedom things.
participants (2)
-
grarpamp -
Punk