Fwd: <nettime> living under algorithmic governance
Interesting point of view... :) sea sea -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Felix Stalder" <felix@openflows.com> Date: Sep 9, 2016 5:35 AM Subject: <nettime> living under algorithmic governance To: <nettime-l@mx.kein.org> "Listen, Mark, this is serious. First you create rules that don’t distinguish between child pornography and famous war photographs. Then you practice these rules without allowing space for good judgement. Finally you even censor criticism against and a discussion about the decision – and you punish the person who dares to voice criticism. <...> To be honest, I have no illusions that you will read this letter. The reason why I will still make this attempt, is that I am upset, disappointed – well, in fact even afraid [...]." http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kommentar/Dear-Mark-I-am-writing-th is-to-inform-you-that-I-shall-not-comply-with-your-requirement-to-remo ve-this-picture-604156b.html This is from a recent open letter to FB's Mark Zuckerberg by Espen Egil Hansen, editor-in-chief of Aftenposten, Norwegian largest daily newspaper. The context is an article about a chain of events that Hansen describes as follows: "A few weeks ago the Norwegian author Tom Egeland posted an entry on Facebook about, and including, seven photographs that changed the history of warfare. You in turn removed the picture of a naked Kim Phuc, fleeing from the napalm bombs – one of the world’s most famous war photographs. Tom then rendered Kim Phuc’s criticism against Facebook for banning her picture. Facebook reacted by excluding Tom and prevented him from posting a new entry." Aftenpost article about all of this was, naturally, illustrated with said picture. Facebook demanded with standard form-letter than Aftenpost delete the picture and when didn't comply, FB deleted the entire article after less than a day. The point I want make is not how the traditional media have become depended on FB and how this is now going to bite them. That's obvious. What struck me more was the pithy description of the experience of living under algorithmic governance: opaque and arbitrary rules, which produce absurd effects, but, from the point of view of the governing entity, this much less important than the fact that these rules scale well. The absurdity of the results comes from the application of the rules without consideration of the ambiguities and constant negations that make up daily life and that are, in fact, an important basis for freedom. If rules aren't acknowledged as unambiguous there is no legitimate ground for complying with the rules in more than one way. The second point is the experience of the enormity of the distance between those who govern and those who are governed. This open letter is like burning incense in a temple to placate angry gods. And remember, this how it feels to a bona-fide member of the national elite in a wealthy country. I presume the other 99.999% of FB users wouldn't even bother to complain.... -- ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| http://felix.openflows.com |OPEN PGP: 056C E7D3 9B25 CAE1 336D 6D2F 0BBB 5B95 0C9F F2AC # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
rught u porkeater
First you create rules that donât distinguish between child pornography and famous war photographs.
u know what rules juan has about this porn................
Then you practice these rules
and what practice
without allowing space
and what full media
for good judgement.
brainwasher to suit his gross sefl
About the same subject. Mark Zuckerberg accused of abusing power after Facebook deletes 'napalm girl' post https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/08/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-... sea sea -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Facebook Restores Iconic Vietnam War Photo It Censored for Nudity http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/technology/facebook-vietnam-war-photo-nudi... sea sea -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 20:33:18 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
Facebook Restores Iconic Vietnam War Photo It Censored for Nudity
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/technology/facebook-vietnam-war-photo-nudi...
So, that picture is 'allowed', but, any other picture that has 'nudity' in it is not allowed, because 'nudity' is evil. Especially in children. Now somebody tell me that the US is anything but a fascist, puritan cesspool, thanks to jew-kkkristian 'culture' and that they deserve any kind of 'respect'? Oh yes, I really love facebook and jew-kkkristian 'culture' because. above all, I'm a loyal subject of the US government.
sea sea -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
So, that picture is 'allowed', but, any other picture that has 'nudity' in it is not allowed, because 'nudity' is evil. Especially in children.
typical pedophile thinking and retort
fascist, puritan cesspool, thanks to jew-kkkristian
markov
On 09/09/2016 05:33 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Facebook Restores Iconic Vietnam War Photo It Censored for Nudity
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/technology/facebook-vietnam-war-photo-nudi...
OK, that's cool :) | When the picture’s takedown went viral, the photo went into wide | circulation on the social network, including on the Facebook page | of Mr. Ut, the photographer. Facebook later said it would take some | time for the photo and posts that contained it to reappear across | the site, perhaps as much as a few days. | | Mr. Egeland, the Norwegian author whose Facebook post kicked off | the global protest, said the company’s reversal underlined how | people can come together to force a tech giant to change its ways | — even though he could still not post on his own Facebook page | until his three-day exile expired.
sea sea -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On 09/09/2016 04:46 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Interesting point of view... :)
Well, until they nationalize Facebook, it's a private firm, and isn't required to host anything that it doesn't want to. It's also not required to answer complaints, except as required by law. When I read this, I wondered how Facebook could take down stuff on Aftenpost. Then I got that Felix is complaining about stuff taken down from Aftenpost's Facebook page. WTF? Anyway, Facebook is not our friend. They're just monetizing love. And they're quite prudish and risk-averse. But then, that's their right. So what would a cypherpunk do? Maybe figure out how to fuck with Facebook? Create markets for anonymous Facebook accounts? Develop alternatives to Facebook that aren't censored, and can't be censored, and figure out how to popularize them? I don't know, but just complaining about Facebook seems pointless.
sea sea -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Felix Stalder" <felix@openflows.com> Date: Sep 9, 2016 5:35 AM Subject: <nettime> living under algorithmic governance To: <nettime-l@mx.kein.org>
"Listen, Mark, this is serious. First you create rules that don’t distinguish between child pornography and famous war photographs. Then you practice these rules without allowing space for good judgement. Finally you even censor criticism against and a discussion about the decision – and you punish the person who dares to voice criticism.
<...>
To be honest, I have no illusions that you will read this letter. The reason why I will still make this attempt, is that I am upset, disappointed – well, in fact even afraid [...]."
http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kommentar/Dear-Mark-I-am-writing-th is-to-inform-you-that-I-shall-not-comply-with-your-requirement-to-remo ve-this-picture-604156b.html
This is from a recent open letter to FB's Mark Zuckerberg by Espen Egil Hansen, editor-in-chief of Aftenposten, Norwegian largest daily newspaper. The context is an article about a chain of events that Hansen describes as follows:
"A few weeks ago the Norwegian author Tom Egeland posted an entry on Facebook about, and including, seven photographs that changed the history of warfare. You in turn removed the picture of a naked Kim Phuc, fleeing from the napalm bombs – one of the world’s most famous war photographs.
Tom then rendered Kim Phuc’s criticism against Facebook for banning her picture. Facebook reacted by excluding Tom and prevented him from posting a new entry."
Aftenpost article about all of this was, naturally, illustrated with said picture. Facebook demanded with standard form-letter than Aftenpost delete the picture and when didn't comply, FB deleted the entire article after less than a day.
The point I want make is not how the traditional media have become depended on FB and how this is now going to bite them. That's obvious.
What struck me more was the pithy description of the experience of living under algorithmic governance: opaque and arbitrary rules, which produce absurd effects, but, from the point of view of the governing entity, this much less important than the fact that these rules scale well. The absurdity of the results comes from the application of the rules without consideration of the ambiguities and constant negations that make up daily life and that are, in fact, an important basis for freedom. If rules aren't acknowledged as unambiguous there is no legitimate ground for complying with the rules in more than one way.
The second point is the experience of the enormity of the distance between those who govern and those who are governed. This open letter is like burning incense in a temple to placate angry gods. And remember, this how it feels to a bona-fide member of the national elite in a wealthy country. I presume the other 99.999% of FB users wouldn't even bother to complain....
--
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| http://felix.openflows.com |OPEN PGP: 056C E7D3 9B25 CAE1 336D 6D2F 0BBB 5B95 0C9F F2AC
# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/09/2016 09:26 PM, Mirimir wrote:
I don't know, but just complaining about Facebook seems pointless.
+1 The great unwashed publick actually believes that "free speech" means privately owned publishers have to let them say whatever they want, on the given publishers' dime. Isn't that cute? Meanwhile, playing the game of publishing arbitrary propaganda "for free" through social media outlets is a whole 'nother thing. Weasels ride for free, but others may need to launch Big Stories (ahem) that would trigger the Streisand Effect if they were taken down. As illustrated in the thread above. Meanwhile, this seems to provide an excuse to get out my soap box. The Facebook, as any good CPunk should know, is one of the twin crown jewels of U.S. domestic mass surveillance, the other being Google. The Facebook's national infrastructure was capitalized by DARPA's financiers, and soon afterward propagandized with front page placements in "student" newspapers throughout the U.S. (local sports hero asserts The Facebook is life vs. death in campus social scene, same template from coast to coast). That worked brilliantly. As soon as its infrastructure was built out to accommodate really explosive growth, The Facebook started accepting subscribers without .edu e-mail accounts. Given the identity of its de facto owners, this makes The Facebook a classic study in large scale covert political warfare. Then someone read The Facebook's terms of service and privacy policy, and started talking. In summary, by signing up one agreed to be placed under ongoing surveillance through every vector available to The Facebook; to allow The Facebook to integrate all intel collected against the user and offer it for sale to all comers; and of course granting The Facebook a non-exclusive but unlimited license to publish any and everything submitted by the user, in a wrapper (c) The Facebook, forever and ever amen. The great unwashed publick was shocked - shocked, I tell ya! - and The Facebook's terms and conditions were promptly amended to obfuscate the surprisingly honest (insider sabotage?) original, and mitigate whatever damage it did. Meanwhile, under the radar, The Facebook enabled NSA to outsource tons of collection and pre-processing for its Rumsfeld-given Total (er, I mean, Terrorist) Information Awareness program, /and/ made that service pay for itself. Since then, widely publicized and briefly influential articles and videos documenting the U.S. intelligence community's controlling interest in The Facebook have gone down the memory hole. So have the early Facebook TOS docs: I went digging for both a few days ago and abracadabra, no trace of either turned up. I am sure that a more determined effort would find hot leads in old list archives & etc; "Big Brother, Big Facebook," "Orwellian Social Network," and similar strings might be productive. I have an account on The Facebook. I was a very late adopter; my only initial interest was in testing promotional tools integrating websites with The Facebook: The "liek" buttons scattered like JS land mines across millions of seemingly harmless websites; my own versions of same that do not phone home to Zuckerberg unless deliberately activated by the visitor; the uses and abuses of company Facebook pages; and etc. "The customer gets what the customer wants." But eventually I decided to start using The Facebook to distribute propaganda; it's not like this tells Big Brother anything about me that's not already being collected. Depending the propaganda you pump out and the audience you cultivate, The Facebook can give productive results - especially if you are interested in engaging IRL with political activists, organizers and radicals. The Other Side has already spotted you; might as well let Our Team do so as well. The Facebook is an environmental condition; a pervasive fungus on the networks that is only as toxic to the user as the user's ignorance enables it to be. And that's all I have to say about that. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJX1AAcAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq8WsH/Azo8CUocyQRRE4blinsWzVF JTHMNjJB4FQ4cY7aIOC8ZgzGPRfZgMwxytcq6i6v3E0lw5Vk/EWEBMcLxJ1pDHo8 8gx7ChztsAos63mirb26WLaesYoCX3Dcnkf7WXRpa94aLcl3zuuTd4P/288CTbVw E57CorIv+hlY5a6k6trExXJq48gm6ftXhGpfFxQzI4oy+RovwWEUbZF1AEm5+iGe fxnLPuMq0vlr0mWF2FV7DjITmZ5zyC5GGA7TbAhREZ6yLtsgKawzqQNbuflz4Osd Lkje9blxNNjXy6t4PMImRzX0fIjAQgbc0W9Hu/vw4aL+2CGemiCGCfT+fQcoZA8= =QRS4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
[OT, OT, OT] Answer very, very, very OFF TOPIC about Facebook, but it's part of a discussion that I already had with Mirimir and some friends here before. On Sep 9, 2016 10:27 PM, "Mirimir" <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Anyway, Facebook is not our friend. They're just monetizing love.
I have an old account on Facebook that I used to keep only to read private invitations on groups of Hackerspaces, Law and - hahaha!!! - Internet Privacy, all owned and managed for friends. I am not using it anymore, but I simply do not have courage enough to delete it forever. Tried before and gave up because of old sweet memories, very important for me. There are two dead friends among my contacts. One of them was so special for me that you never will understand, my dear. He was one of the fnords of my life. He was one of the best hackers that I've knowed and had a huge heart, bigger than the whole world. And he was fucking intelligent, brilliant, wow! I was always asking to that son of a bitch donate me some of his neurons, because he never would miss them and I needed much more than my two neurons, Ceci and Lia, to study more and more and more subjects and, maybe after some decades, become someone like him... If I delete that fucking stupid FB account, I will lose for complete the access to his private profile and his amazing posts, funny pics, his crazy stories, private conversations, everything, part of his life that still exists online... I will lose him twice and I know I won't manage well this pain. It still hurts so, so bad after years... I know it's stupid, but, sometimes, I like to pretend he is still alive, laughing, telling the most creative stories or the craziest conspiracy theories, the best jokes, explaining me something completely useless, stupid and silly, but in a so interesting way that I always would think "Wow! God, how could I survive without knowing it until today?"... I never deleted my dead stupid Orkut account for the same reason, but because of another dead friend. He was my best friend for almost 15 years of my life. Years of friendship and he decided to kill himself without saying anything. No good bye, no I love you. I just received a very expensive Edith Piaf's collection few days after his death. No words to say 'adieu', only music. He had lost my favorite Edith Piaf's CD years ago and before the suicide, he remembered it. I was beta tester for some Google products that I simply don't use anymore, but still contain sweet memories. This Gmail account is really, really old. I still remember when received the invite to have it... Well, more than slave of Facebook and Google, I am slave of my own memories, of my past. I already lost so many dear friends, teachers, heroes and loves and my heart never heals for complete. I always feel it completely destroyed after every loss. I die when someone that I love dies. It was fucking strange, but when I tried the suicide, I destroyed lots of important data and things, including notebooks and devices able of being used against friends and activists, but, in the end, had no courage enough to delete that stupid FB account forever. I imagined that some friends would like to see my old pics smiling on Facebook after my death... So, probably, I will never be a really good cypherpunk. And also a good anarchist, because, in several senses, I am a slave. Maybe of companies, maybe of my own past, but not so free and independent as I should be. ----- "La vita non è un problema da risolvere, ma un mistero da vivere."
On 09/10/2016 08:07 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
[OT, OT, OT] Answer very, very, very OFF TOPIC about Facebook, but it's part of a discussion that I already had with Mirimir and some friends here before.
On Sep 9, 2016 10:27 PM, "Mirimir" <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Anyway, Facebook is not our friend. They're just monetizing love.
I have an old account on Facebook that I used to keep only to read private invitations on groups of Hackerspaces, Law and - hahaha!!! - Internet Privacy, all owned and managed for friends. I am not using it anymore, but I simply do not have courage enough to delete it forever. Tried before and gave up because of old sweet memories, very important for me.
There are two dead friends among my contacts. One of them was so special for me that you never will understand, my dear. He was one of the fnords of my life. He was one of the best hackers that I've knowed and had a huge heart, bigger than the whole world. And he was fucking intelligent, brilliant, wow! I was always asking to that son of a bitch donate me some of his neurons, because he never would miss them and I needed much more than my two neurons, Ceci and Lia, to study more and more and more subjects and, maybe after some decades, become someone like him...
If I delete that fucking stupid FB account, I will lose for complete the access to his private profile and his amazing posts, funny pics, his crazy stories, private conversations, everything, part of his life that still exists online... I will lose him twice and I know I won't manage well this pain. It still hurts so, so bad after years...
You could scrape what you want.
I know it's stupid, but, sometimes, I like to pretend he is still alive, laughing, telling the most creative stories or the craziest conspiracy theories, the best jokes, explaining me something completely useless, stupid and silly, but in a so interesting way that I always would think "Wow! God, how could I survive without knowing it until today?"...
You're not the only one doing it. Maybe Facebook will eventually use "AI" to expand on that desire. Maybe eventually dead people will even think that they're still alive ;)
I never deleted my dead stupid Orkut account for the same reason, but because of another dead friend. He was my best friend for almost 15 years of my life. Years of friendship and he decided to kill himself without saying anything. No good bye, no I love you. I just received a very expensive Edith Piaf's collection few days after his death. No words to say 'adieu', only music. He had lost my favorite Edith Piaf's CD years ago and before the suicide, he remembered it.
Again, scrape what you want, and delete the account. Or not.
I was beta tester for some Google products that I simply don't use anymore, but still contain sweet memories. This Gmail account is really, really old. I still remember when received the invite to have it...
Well, more than slave of Facebook and Google, I am slave of my own memories, of my past. I already lost so many dear friends, teachers, heroes and loves and my heart never heals for complete. I always feel it completely destroyed after every loss. I die when someone that I love dies.
So you say. Or so something says, pretending to be you.
It was fucking strange, but when I tried the suicide, I destroyed lots of important data and things, including notebooks and devices able of being used against friends and activists, but, in the end, had no courage enough to delete that stupid FB account forever. I imagined that some friends would like to see my old pics smiling on Facebook after my death...
I get that. And yes, Facebook will eventually be mostly dead people ;)
So, probably, I will never be a really good cypherpunk. And also a good anarchist, because, in several senses, I am a slave. Maybe of companies, maybe of my own past, but not so free and independent as I should be.
So what would freedom look like?
----- "La vita non è un problema da risolvere, ma un mistero da vivere."
On Sep 11, 2016 12:04 AM, "Mirimir" <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Maybe Facebook will eventually use "AI" to expand on that desire. Maybe
eventually dead people will even think that they're still alive ;) Dead people don't think, Mirimir. Why do you think I tried the suicide? Just for fun? I was bored, with lots of free time on my hands, and thought "Hey, let's try to discover in person if God, Heaven, Hell, Saints, angels, all these things really exist?" :) Well, almost died twice, in different situations years ago. In one of them, in the Intensive Care Unity of the hospital, when I almost gone forever, it was the only moment when the strong pain stopped. I did not see any light, any angel, but felt a deep inner peace. I felt so much harmony. It was like to feel complete again, a so intimate and serene happiness. It was warm, cozy, sweet. Absolute perfection.
So you say. Or so something says, pretending to be you.
You will never know the true. Nobody will knows. :)
So what would freedom look like?
Death. No pain. No fear. No thoughts. No feelings. No traums. No memories. No nightmares. No broken hearts. No lies. No masks. No labels. No judgements. No Injustice. Simply, pure and absolute No Existence. But, well, there will be still chemical elements and all my Carbon will become something new. The beautiful circle of life. <3 The human being is so contraditory and confused that even writing all these things, I am seriously "life addicted". I really love being alive. Even when I cry and complain about feeling my heart destroyed, I remember a beautiful music, poetry or thing that still make me feel smile. There is so much beauty in the world, my love. Even when deeply hurt, when feeling emotional and physical pain, I simply can't ignore so much beauty. I tried sometimes, but it's impossible. And there are so amazing people in the world. Even when I want to die, it is impossible to me avoiding to smile when I listen children laughing, happy, innocent. Or when I see a happy puppie wagging its tail for me, asking to play. Or when I see the blue sea and feel its smell and the wind playing with my hair. Or when I think about my family. I think it is love, isn't it?
On 09/11/2016 02:12 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Sep 11, 2016 12:04 AM, "Mirimir" <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Maybe Facebook will eventually use "AI" to expand on that desire. Maybe
eventually dead people will even think that they're still alive ;)
Dead people don't think, Mirimir.
I mean that Facebook will create emulations of dead people, and that those emulations may have self-awareness. <SNIP>
participants (5)
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Cecilia Tanaka -
Cypher Piggie -
juan -
Mirimir -
Steve Kinney