Is the Wikileaks Party a cypherpunk party?
While I'm American, I've been paying close attention to the Wikileaks Party in Australia. Could it be the political embodiment of the cypherpunk movement? Regardless of what some think of Julian Assange, he certainly holds true to the cp ethic and the parties belief in accountability, privacy, and justice, seem well aligned with the movement. So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians? Regards, CryptoFreak
Sure, that works as well as any other initiative to avoid the classic and inevitably corrupt political parties. It too will become corrupt as inevitable with politics which is nothing but organized corruption which empowers itself to fuck the public dead as a wise person beautifully articulates the aim of politics. No political leader or party is worth supporting except to get in on the fucking. And as with other political parties, the WikiLeaks party is enlisting adherents with the same classical and corrupt methods: an opportunistic, eloquent, mesmerizing star surrounded and advocated by the most venal of advisors, funders, lawyers, promoters, shills, double-crossers, lobbyists, thugs, rats, snakes, vermin, scum, thieves, liars, cheats, priests, apologists, yellow-red-blue dogs, magicians, whores, cunts, dicks, pussies, vultures, hyenas, racists, sexists, on into the thousands and then millions of fuckers eager to kill, hurt, steal, and savage those less organized to do unto others under a banner of beneficience, rooting out corruption, protecting the weak, punishing the powerful, making the world a better place. Cryptoanarchy is an alternative to politics, a deadly enemy, disorganized, any one of a cryptoanarchist is a politician's worst nightmare, inside the organization, the most trusted, the most likely to fuck the star dead. As Schwarz and Assange has found, along with Manning, Snowden, Anonymous, Lulzsec, Sabu, Tor, Lavabit, Silent Circle, among many in jail, indicted, exiled, tortured, disappeared. Others went to the other side for officially assured continual fucking. At 06:01 AM 8/17/2013, you wrote:
While I'm American, I've been paying close attention to the Wikileaks Party in Australia. Could it be the political embodiment of the cypherpunk movement?
Regardless of what some think of Julian Assange, he certainly holds true to the cp ethic and the parties belief in accountability, privacy, and justice, seem well aligned with the movement.
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Regards, CryptoFreak
There's definately a chance it could become corrupt. But I think the big difference between the Wikileaks Party and other, more traditional parties, is that the WLP is focused on more than just grabbing power. The whole organization is about speaking truth to power, destroying secrets, informing the populace, and holding those in power accountable. That a little different than most others. Of course that could all be hyperbole just like Obama's promises of change but we don't know yet. While I agree that a cryptoanarchist poses a bigger threat to the power structure than a political party does, could this not be a good forward step? On Aug 17, 2013, at 6:31 AM, John Young <jya@pipeline.com> wrote:
Sure, that works as well as any other initiative to avoid the classic and inevitably corrupt political parties. It too will become corrupt as inevitable with politics which is nothing but organized corruption which empowers itself to fuck the public dead as a wise person beautifully articulates the aim of politics.
No political leader or party is worth supporting except to get in on the fucking. And as with other political parties, the WikiLeaks party is enlisting adherents with the same classical and corrupt methods: an opportunistic, eloquent, mesmerizing star surrounded and advocated by the most venal of advisors, funders, lawyers, promoters, shills, double-crossers, lobbyists, thugs, rats, snakes, vermin, scum, thieves, liars, cheats, priests, apologists, yellow-red-blue dogs, magicians, whores, cunts, dicks, pussies, vultures, hyenas, racists, sexists, on into the thousands and then millions of fuckers eager to kill, hurt, steal, and savage those less organized to do unto others under a banner of beneficience, rooting out corruption, protecting the weak, punishing the powerful, making the world a better place.
Cryptoanarchy is an alternative to politics, a deadly enemy, disorganized, any one of a cryptoanarchist is a politician's worst nightmare, inside the organization, the most trusted, the most likely to fuck the star dead. As Schwarz and Assange has found, along with Manning, Snowden, Anonymous, Lulzsec, Sabu, Tor, Lavabit, Silent Circle, among many in jail, indicted, exiled, tortured, disappeared. Others went to the other side for officially assured continual fucking.
At 06:01 AM 8/17/2013, you wrote:
While I'm American, I've been paying close attention to the Wikileaks Party in Australia. Could it be the political embodiment of the cypherpunk movement?
Regardless of what some think of Julian Assange, he certainly holds true to the cp ethic and the parties belief in accountability, privacy, and justice, seem well aligned with the movement.
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Regards, CryptoFreak
On Sat, 17 Aug 2013, CryptoFreak wrote:
There's definately a chance it could become corrupt.
A *chance*? It's *already corrupt by definition: do you undeerstand what is required to organize and run a political (read: Organized Crime) party?
But I think the big difference between the Wikileaks Party and other, more traditional parties, is that the WLP is focused on more than just grabbing power. The whole organization is about speaking truth to power, destroying secrets, informing the populace, and holding those in power accountable. That a little different than most others.
Where have I heard that before I wonder? Whigs? Republicans? Democrats (Obama as recently as 2008 even)?
Of course that could all be hyperbole just like Obama's promises of change but we don't know yet. While I agree that a cryptoanarchist poses a bigger threat to the power structure than a political party does, could this not be a good forward step?
It *could*. But I doubt it. //Alif -- Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. An American Spring is coming: one way or another.
Dnia sobota, 17 sierpnia 2013 08:33:11 J.A. Terranson pisze:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2013, CryptoFreak wrote:
There's definately a chance it could become corrupt.
A *chance*? It's *already corrupt by definition: do you undeerstand what is required to organize and run a political (read: Organized Crime) party?
But I think the big difference between the Wikileaks Party and other, more traditional parties, is that the WLP is focused on more than just grabbing power. The whole organization is about speaking truth to power, destroying secrets, informing the populace, and holding those in power accountable. That a little different than most others.
Where have I heard that before I wonder? Whigs? Republicans? Democrats (Obama as recently as 2008 even)?
This. Pirate Party anyone? Granted, the PP does have some great, active, ideologically pure chapters (Iceland, Sweden to large extent). But looking ta the Pirate Party in Poland -- there is no hope. What this all boils down to is this: Party/logo stays, people change. If we start trusting the WikiLeaks party, or the Pirate Party, or any other centralised entity, inevitably at some point people that created these and might have even had their hearts and minds in the right place -- will go away, others will come in and take over. That's a natural process. Problem is, political processes tend to reward those able to compromise (in both senses), those able to lie, cheat and deceive. And this is what we will get at some point in the future, we can be certain of that. So once we start putting too much trust and hope in a logo (WikiLeaks party; Pirate Party), we're in for some serious disappointment.
Of course that could all be hyperbole just like Obama's promises of change but we don't know yet. While I agree that a cryptoanarchist poses a bigger threat to the power structure than a political party does, could this not be a good forward step?
It *could*. But I doubt it.
Only if it would indeed be created in a way that ensures that it will be disruptive and will not become a career party like the others. This would require clear set of *achievable* goals, and a time limit written-in into the statute. Something along the lines of: http://rys.io/en/78 http://rys.io/en/80 Both texts are a bit naive, I grant you that, since I hadn't had enough time to work on them yet. -- Pozdr rysiek
Two early cypherpunk heroic casualities were omitted: Jim Bell and Carl "CJ" Johnson for, apropros, "Assassination Politics." Not jailed, politics-defiers John Gilmore, Peter Junger (RIP), Phil Karn. On parallel paths, politics-hounded Phil Zimmermann and Dan Bernstein. And others, less celebrated enemies of ever-corrupting politics. Not to say if its your very own political corruption then it's okay, says a truly dedicated anarchist of the Party of One.
I would definitely support Assange and the WikiLeaks Party (if TCM and a few stalwart others rebuff a draft) as superior to status quo politics enforced by US and allies worldwide. He and it will be assassinated, bribed, tricked, flattered into submission unless successfully undermining that long-running machine of bloodthirsty spies using the Internet and other willing ploys to solicit political candidates able to memerize believers and assassins, the former contemned as citizens and subjects and followers, the latter spies military industry media. Cant politic without Kant cant. -- Immanuel Kant's Wife
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM, John Young <jya@pipeline.com> wrote:
I would definitely support Assange and the WikiLeaks Party (if TCM and a few stalwart others rebuff a draft) as superior to status quo politics enforced by US and allies worldwide.
i read this as: "i would rather smash my thumb with a hammer than stick my dick in a lamp socket"
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 05:01:07AM -0500, CryptoFreak wrote:
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Don't forget the Pirate Parties. Despite all the fubars, the German Pirate Party is expected to hit 3+% in the national elections next months.
By some weird luck, I happen to know some people from Australian Pirate Party, despite being on the other end of the world. Based on that, I would trust them a bit more in their claims than Assange-centered party that exists, afaik, to get Assange into senate. However, I don't know that much about Australian politics, so what do I know. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 05:01:07AM -0500, CryptoFreak wrote:
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Don't forget the Pirate Parties. Despite all the fubars, the German Pirate Party is expected to hit 3+% in the national elections next months.
that "weird luck" has everything to do with pirate party international. you don't want to know the dirty stuff of pirate party international. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Karel Bílek <kb@karelbilek.com> wrote:
By some weird luck, I happen to know some people from Australian Pirate Party, despite being on the other end of the world.
Based on that, I would trust them a bit more in their claims than Assange-centered party that exists, afaik, to get Assange into senate.
However, I don't know that much about Australian politics, so what do I know.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 05:01:07AM -0500, CryptoFreak wrote:
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Don't forget the Pirate Parties. Despite all the fubars, the German Pirate Party is expected to hit 3+% in the national elections next months.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Karel Bílek <kb@karelbilek.com> wrote:
you don't want to know the dirty stuff of pirate party international.
I thought the first rule of Pirate Party International is that you don't talk about Pirate Party International. Or was that the International Party Pirate?
http://www.pp-international.net/ Frankly, I met some great people all around the world, sharing same values and so on. But some of them are less altruistic. And of course, there is tons of politics. In all senses of the word. And it was a stupid Pirate Party that has almost no power anywhere, except for a few people in Brussels and some Germans in those smaller parliaments. But even the *possibility* of power lure some strange people in. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Karel Bílek <kb@karelbilek.com> wrote:
you don't want to know the dirty stuff of pirate party international.
I thought the first rule of Pirate Party International is that you don't talk about Pirate Party International. Or was that the International Party Pirate?
Dnia środa, 21 sierpnia 2013 17:57:43 Karel Bílek pisze:
http://www.pp-international.net/
Frankly, I met some great people all around the world, sharing same values and so on.
But some of them are less altruistic.
And of course, there is tons of politics. In all senses of the word. And it was a stupid Pirate Party that has almost no power anywhere, except for a few people in Brussels and some Germans in those smaller parliaments. But even the *possibility* of power lure some strange people in.
That's exactly what we see in Poland. The "P3" (Polish Pirate Party) as they call themselves, has about one sensible guy and dozens of politicos lured there during the Anti-ACTA shitstorm and during earlier Internet-related movements. It's a very sad sight... -- Pozdr rysiek
Dnia środa, 21 sierpnia 2013 11:38:38 Steve Furlong pisze:
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Karel Bílek <kb@karelbilek.com> wrote:
you don't want to know the dirty stuff of pirate party international.
I thought the first rule of Pirate Party International is that you don't talk about Pirate Party International. Or was that the International Party Pirate?
International Party of Pirates? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE -- Pozdr rysiek
2013/8/21 Karel Bílek <kb@karelbilek.com>
Based on that, I would trust them a bit more in their claims than Assange-centered party that exists, afaik, to get Assange into senate.
That sounds awesome actually. Assange as a government head. Nobody I'd trust more to poke through silly political games and get to business. Of course he does his fair share of games too, but that'll only make him more effective. I'm thumbs up. Assange for senator!
On 08/21/2013 09:04 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 05:01:07AM -0500, CryptoFreak wrote:
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Don't forget the Pirate Parties. Despite all the fubars, the German Pirate Party is expected to hit 3+% in the national elections next months.
I've looked into the Pirate Party but, at least from the American side of things, they seem like a 'one hit wonder' who's nearly solely focused on IP law reform. Perhaps this isn't the same in other places (I can't imagine they would have won major elections with a single issue platform) but here in the States, where they exist, it seems to be the case.
That thing is kind of complex. AFAIK, inside pirate parties, there are always people that shout "we should do more issues, most people don't care just about the internet" and people that shout "we should do less issues, we know nothing about tax reform and medicine, and we will not agree on anything meaningful either". And, as somebody said before, because it's a political party, you have to do compromises, so they usually try to go somewhere in the middle. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:30 PM, CryptoFreak <cryptofreak@cpunk.us> wrote:
On 08/21/2013 09:04 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 05:01:07AM -0500, CryptoFreak wrote:
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Don't forget the Pirate Parties. Despite all the fubars, the German Pirate Party is expected to hit 3+% in the national elections next months.
I've looked into the Pirate Party but, at least from the American side of things, they seem like a 'one hit wonder' who's nearly solely focused on IP law reform. Perhaps this isn't the same in other places (I can't imagine they would have won major elections with a single issue platform) but here in the States, where they exist, it seems to be the case.
From: "CryptoFreak" <cryptofreak@cpunk.us> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:30:43 PM Subject: Re: Is the Wikileaks Party a cypherpunk party? On 08/21/2013 09:04 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 05:01:07AM -0500, CryptoFreak wrote:
So what do you think? Is their finally a political party more closely aligned with the cypherpunk ideal than the Libertarians?
Don't forget the Pirate Parties. Despite all the fubars, the German Pirate Party is expected to hit 3+% in the national elections next months.
I've looked into the Pirate Party but, at least from the American side of things, they seem like a 'one hit wonder' who's nearly solely focused on IP law reform. Perhaps this isn't the same in other places (I can't imagine they would have won major elections with a single issue platform) but here in the States, where they exist, it seems to be the case.
In a winner-take-all system like the US, third parties are irrelevant, except insofar as they (like Bernie Sanders) caucus with one of the duopoly. Birgitta Jonsdottir gets good press as a PP member of the Icelandic Parliament. FOr what that's worth.
participants (10)
-
coderman -
CryptoFreak -
Eugen Leitl -
J.A. Terranson -
John Young -
Karel Bílek -
Lodewijk andré de la porte -
Randall Webmail -
rysiek -
Steve Furlong