when thinking of usability of security features, i always wonder about diminished mental states - how do you handle authentication when the mind is unstable? (biometrics work, but they cannot be the whole piece. e.g. scanning a dead finger...) --- https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/28/health/covid-psychosis-mental.html Small Number of Covid Patients Develop Severe Psychotic Symptoms Most had no history of mental illness and became psychotic weeks after contracting the virus. Cases are expected to remain rare but are being reported worldwide. Almost immediately, Dr. Hisam Goueli could tell that the patient who came to his psychiatric hospital on Long Island this summer was unusual. The patient, a 42-year-old physical therapist and mother of four young children, had never had psychiatric symptoms or any family history of mental illness. Yet there she was, sitting at a table in a beige-walled room at South Oaks Hospital in Amityville, N.Y., sobbing and saying that she kept seeing her children, ages 2 to 10, being gruesomely murdered and that she herself had crafted plans to kill them. “It was like she was experiencing a movie, like ‘Kill Bill,’” Dr. Goueli, a psychiatrist, said. The patient described one of her children being run over by a truck and another decapitated. “It’s a horrifying thing that here’s this well-accomplished woman and she’s like ‘I love my kids, and I don’t know why I feel this way that I want to decapitate them,’” he said. The only notable thing about her medical history was that the woman, who declined to be interviewed but allowed Dr. Goueli to describe her case, had become infected with the coronavirus in the spring. She had experienced only mild physical symptoms from the virus, but, months later, she heard a voice that first told her to kill herself and then told her to kill her children. At South Oaks, which has an inpatient psychiatric treatment program for Covid-19 patients, Dr. Goueli was unsure whether the coronavirus was connected to the woman’s psychological symptoms. “Maybe this is Covid-related, maybe it’s not,” he recalled thinking. - Thanks for reading The Times. [Subscribe to The Times](https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=9L9L9) “But then,” he said, “we saw a second case, a third case and a fourth case, and we’re like, ‘There’s something happening.’” Indeed, doctors are reporting similar cases across the country and around the world. A small number of Covid patients who had never experienced mental health problems are developing severe psychotic symptoms weeks after contracting the coronavirus. In interviews and scientific articles, doctors described: A 36-year-old nursing home employee in North Carolina who became so paranoid that she believed her three children would be kidnapped and, to save them, tried to pass them through a fast-food restaurant’s drive-through window. A 30-year-old construction worker in New York City who became so delusional that he imagined his cousin was going to murder him, and, to protect himself, he tried to strangle his cousin in bed. Advertisement [Continue reading the main story](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/28/health/covid-psychosis-mental.html#after-...) A 55-year-old woman in Britain had hallucinations of monkeys and a lion and became convinced a family member had been replaced by an impostor. Beyond individual reports, a British [study of neurological or psychiatric complications](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7316461/) in 153 patients hospitalized with Covid-19 found that 10 people had “new-onset psychosis.” Another study identified [10 such patients in one hospital in Spain](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165178120315092?via%3Dih...). And in Covid-related social media groups, medical professionals discuss seeing patients with similar symptoms in the Midwest, Great Plains and elsewhere. “My guess is any place that is seeing Covid is probably seeing this,” said Dr. Colin Smith at Duke University Medical Center in Durham, who helped treat the North Carolina woman. He and other doctors said their patients were too fragile to be asked whether they wanted to be interviewed for this article, but some, including the [North Carolina woman](https://casereports.bmj.com/content/13/8/e236940), agreed to have their cases described in scientific papers. Medical experts say they expect that such extreme psychiatric dysfunction will affect only a small proportion of patients. But the cases are considered examples of another way the Covid-19 disease process can affect mental health and brain function. In Her Words: Where women rule the headlines. Although the coronavirus was initially thought primarily to cause respiratory distress, there is now ample evidence of many other symptoms, including [neurological](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/05/health/Covid-patients-mental-state.html), cognitive and psychological effects, that could emerge even in patients who didn’t develop serious lung, heart or circulatory problems. Such symptoms can be just as debilitating to a person’s ability to function and work, and it’s often unclear [how long they will last or how to treat them](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/health/covid-long-term-symptoms.html?smid...). Experts increasingly believe brain-related effects may be linked to the body’s immune system response to the coronavirus and possibly to vascular problems or surges of inflammation caused by the disease process. “Some of the neurotoxins that are reactions to immune activation can go to the brain, through the blood-brain barrier, and can induce this damage,” said Dr. Vilma Gabbay, a co-director of the Psychiatry Research Institute at Montefiore Einstein in the Bronx. Brain scans, spinal fluid analyses and other tests didn’t find any brain infection, said Dr. Gabbay, whose hospital has treated [two patients](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7414775/?fbclid=IwAR0-MZFO3FK6L...) with post-Covid psychosis: a 49-year-old man who heard voices and believed he was the devil and a 34-year-old woman who began carrying a knife, disrobing in front of strangers and putting hand sanitizer in her food. Physically, most of these patients didn’t get very sick from Covid-19, reports indicate. The patients that Dr. Goueli treated experienced no respiratory problems, but they did have subtle neurological symptoms like hand tingling, vertigo, headaches or diminished smell. Then, two weeks to several months later, he said, they “develop this profound psychosis, which is really dangerous and scary to all of the people around them.” Also striking is that most patients have been in their 30s, 40s and 50s. “It’s very rare for you to develop this type of psychosis in this age range,” Dr. Goueli said, since such symptoms more typically accompany schizophrenia in young people or dementia in older patients. And some patients — like the physical therapist who took herself to the hospital — understood something was wrong, while usually “people with psychosis don’t have an insight that they’ve lost touch with reality.” Some post-Covid patients who developed psychosis needed weeks of hospitalization in which doctors tried different medications before finding one that helped. Dr. Robert Yolken, a neurovirology expert at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, said that although people might recover physically from Covid-19, in some cases their immune systems, might be unable to shut down or might remain engaged because of “delayed clearance of a small amount of virus.” Persistent immune activation is also a leading explanation for [brain fog](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/health/covid-survivors.html)and memory problems bedeviling many Covid survivors, and Emily Severance, a schizophrenia expert at Johns Hopkins, said post-Covid cognitive and psychiatric effects might result from “something similar happening in the brain.” It may hinge on which brain region the immune response affects, Dr. Yolken said, adding, “some people have neurological symptoms, some people psychiatric and many people have a combination.” Experts don’t know whether genetic makeup or perhaps an undetected predisposition for psychiatric illness put some people at greater risk. Dr. Brian Kincaid, medical director of psychiatric emergency department services at Duke, said the North Carolina woman once had a skin reaction to another virus, which might suggest her immune system responds zealously to viral infections. Sporadic cases of post-infectious psychosis and mania have occurred with other viruses, including the 1918 flu and the coronaviruses SARS and MERS. “We think that it’s not unique to Covid,” said Dr. Jonathan Alpert, chairman of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, who co-wrote the report on the Montefiore patients. He said studying these cases might help to increase doctors’ understanding of psychosis. The symptoms have ranged widely, some surprisingly severe for a first psychotic episode, experts said. Dr. Goueli said a 46-year-old pharmacy technician, whose family brought her in after she became fearful that evil spirits had invaded her home, “cried literally for four days” in the hospital. He said the 30-year-old construction worker, brought to the hospital by the police, became “extremely violent,” dismantling a hospital radiator and using its parts and his shoes to try to break out of a window. He also swung a chair at hospital staff. How long the psychosis lasted and patients’ response to treatment has varied. The woman in Britain — whose symptoms included paranoia about the color red and terror that nurses were devils who would harm her and a family member — took about 40 days to recover, according to [a case report](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7477483/#:~:text=To%20date%2C%2...). The 49-year-old man treated at Montefiore was discharged after several weeks’ hospitalization, but “he was still struggling two months out” and required readmission, Dr. Gabbay said. The North Carolina woman, who was convinced that cellphones were tracking her and that her partner would steal her pandemic stimulus money, didn’t improve with the first medication, said Dr. Jonathan Komisar at Duke, who said doctors initially thought her symptoms reflected bipolar disorder. “When we began to realize that maybe this isn’t going to resolve immediately,” he said, she was given an antipsychotic, risperidone and discharged in a week. The physical therapist who planned to murder her children had more difficulty. “Every day, she was getting worse,” Dr. Goueli said. “We tried probably eight different medicines,” including antidepressants, antipsychotics and lithium. “She was so ill that we were considering electroconvulsive therapy for her because nothing was working.” About two weeks into her hospitalization, she couldn’t remember what her 2-year-old looked like. Calls with family were heartbreaking because “‘You could hear one in the background saying ‘When is Mom coming home?’” Dr. Goueli said. “That brought her a lot of shame because she was like, ‘I can’t be around my kids and here they are loving me.’” Ultimately, risperidone proved effective and after four weeks, she returned home to her family, “95 percent perfect,” he said. “We don’t know what the natural course of this is,” Dr. Goueli said. “Does this eventually go away? Do people get better? How long does that normally take? And are you then more prone to have other psychiatric issues as a result? There are just so many unanswered questions.”
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 3:01 PM coderman <coderman@protonmail.com> wrote:
when thinking of usability of security features, i always wonder about diminished mental states - how do you handle authentication when the mind is unstable?
(biometrics work, but they cannot be the whole piece. e.g. scanning a dead finger...)
I've handled this a lot and physical objects and password storage software is helpful. Re: biometrics, crazy people have specific muscle motion patterns they settle into that you might be able to profile in combination with something else. of course non-crazy people have this too. (psychosis is scary. it causes slow well-documented brain damage. the antipsychotics cause a different kind of brain damage, kind of a pick-your-situation thing except where you have to pick one of the antipsychotics. they don't like to talk about those things.)
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 3:19 PM Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 3:01 PM coderman <coderman@protonmail.com> wrote:
when thinking of usability of security features, i always wonder about diminished mental states - how do you handle authentication when the mind is unstable?
(biometrics work, but they cannot be the whole piece. e.g. scanning a dead finger...)
I've handled this a lot and physical objects and password storage software is helpful.
people also develop really personalised phrases or experiences. like the woman experiencing visions of murdering her children might never forget a password that said "I don't want to kill my kids."
Re: biometrics, crazy people have specific muscle motion patterns they settle into that you might be able to profile in combination with something else. of course non-crazy people have this too.
(psychosis is scary. it causes slow well-documented brain damage. the antipsychotics cause a different kind of brain damage, kind of a pick-your-situation thing except where you have to pick one of the antipsychotics. they don't like to talk about those things.)
See below. Was digging through some old emails and stumbled across this old cypherpunks post. On 12/28/20 8:19 PM, Karl Semich wrote:
(psychosis is scary. it causes slow well-documented brain damage. the antipsychotics cause a different kind of brain damage, kind of a pick-your-situation thing except where you have to pick one of the antipsychotics. they don't like to talk about those things.)
Hi Karl, can you link me to, or provide bibliography for, that documentation of psychosis causing slow brain damage? I have heard that claim many times, but do not know if it is true one way or the other. Off the cuff, it seems likely to me that over time, with psychosis, or antipsychotics, or both, dopamine processing would become increasingly abnormal relative to the norm of, I don't know, people living off the land in a soothing nonindustrial environment. But the normies are also having their dopamine processing completely and dramatically disrupted due to addictive internet media of various types. Doug
On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:24 AM Douglas Lucas <dal@riseup.net> wrote:
See below. Was digging through some old emails and stumbled across this old cypherpunks post.
On 12/28/20 8:19 PM, Karl Semich wrote:
(psychosis is scary. it causes slow well-documented brain damage. the antipsychotics cause a different kind of brain damage, kind of a pick-your-situation thing except where you have to pick one of the antipsychotics. they don't like to talk about those things.)
Hi Karl, can you link me to, or provide bibliography for, that documentation of psychosis causing slow brain damage? I have heard that claim many times, but do not know if it is true one way or the other.
Off the cuff, it seems likely to me that over time, with psychosis, or
antipsychotics, or both, dopamine processing would become increasingly abnormal relative to the norm of, I don't know, people living off the land in a soothing nonindustrial environment.
It's well documented that schizophrenia produces an increase of grey matter in some areas of the brain, and a larger loss of grey matter in other areas. https://searx.webheberg.info/search?q=grey%20matter%20schizophrenia I'm afraid my actual bibliography is on a system that is presently difficult for me to access due because of symptoms of the current topic. This is some research from 2017 on detecting schizophrenia from a single MRI: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6101559/ With machine learning, they've been mapping these things successfully using a variety of metrics, not just grey matter and MRI. There was also a successful fmri neurofeedback study, where by identifying the pattern of a hallucination while in a machine, a patient could reliably be taught to prevent it. Many other neurofeedback studies have been following it. Sometimes you can find one accepting volunteers at https://clinicaltrials.gov/ . I can likely find more papers for you if needed. I have trouble moving around without having experiences similar to seizures. But the normies are also
having their dopamine processing completely and dramatically disrupted due to addictive internet media of various types.
When you live connected in the wilderness you quickly become a healthy genius. There are few studies, but if you've found the various ones that have been done it's easy to see there is little funding and little publicity for such things.
Regarding loss of gray matter and schizophrenia, it's also notable that schizophrenia is associated with persistent abuse. Also not something they like to talk about.
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 06:58:59 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:
It's well documented that schizophrenia produces
'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl. It's funny how you are either your worst enemy parroting what your masters want you to parrot without realizing it, or an outright US govt propaganda bot.
On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 12:19 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 06:58:59 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:
It's well documented that schizophrenia produces
'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl. It's funny how you are either your worst enemy parroting what your masters want you to parrot without realizing it, or an outright US govt propaganda bot.
It's not really funny, but I laugh about it a lot. Science is slowly proving the fascist psychobabble thing. It has about a hundred years of legacy use to contend with.
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:57:44 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 12:19 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 06:58:59 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:
It's well documented that schizophrenia produces
'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl. It's funny how you are either your worst enemy parroting what your masters want you to parrot without realizing it, or an outright US govt propaganda bot.
It's not really funny, but I laugh about it a lot.
yeah, the level of propaganda and fraud in the western cesspool is anything but funny. So you're telling us that you're crazy because your technofascist masters and their 'science' say so. Go on.
Science is slowly proving the fascist psychobabble thing.
Haha. When you say 'science' what you're actually referring to is...fascist psychobable. So let me translate from propaganda newspeak into actual english : "fascist psychobabble is slowly proving the fascist psychobabble thing." So, yeah! A=A! That's randroid level of absurdity. You should add some 'autism' into the mix too. You know, 'autism', a 'scientific thing' invented by a literal Nazi Scientist, and another pilar of US fascist 'psychiatric' Science. SCIENCE!!!
It has about a hundred years of legacy use to contend with.
Covid Crazies
and covidioten : the fucktards who swallow all the PSYOP's lies.
It's well documented that schizophrenia produces
'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl. It's funny how you are either your worst enemy parroting what your masters want you to parrot without realizing it, or an outright US govt propaganda bot.
It's not really funny, but I laugh about it a lot.
yeah, the level of propaganda and fraud in the western cesspool is anything but funny. So you're telling us that you're crazy because your technofascist masters and their 'science' say so. Go on.
It's not complicated, Punk-Stasi. Activists are driven out of the system to disrepute them. Many people are trapped in hospitals or prisons or human trafficking or other things for life, or are dead. It's a money numbers game supported by laws, research papers, marketing organisations, and entire cultures of people. They are beautiful kind murderers, the workers involved in this. I am one of them. and covidioten : the fucktards who swallow all the PSYOP's lies.
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:01:07 +0000 coderman <coderman@protonmail.com> wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/28/health/covid-psychosis-mental.html
Small Number of Covid Patients Develop Severe Psychotic Symptoms
coderman is spamming the worst kind of US govt propaganda. His score as US govt agent keeps increasing.
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 17:31 Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:01:07 +0000 coderman <coderman@protonmail.com> wrote:
Small Number of Covid Patients Develop Severe Psychotic Symptoms
coderman is spamming the worst kind of US govt propaganda. His score as US govt agent keeps increasing.
coderman is a gentleman, too pure for this list in some moments, my darling. Do not be unfair. I bet this link will get much more attention than his, hahahaha!!!! ;D https://gizmodo.com/yes-super-gonorrhea-is-real-and-its-gonna-get-worse-1845... You are a f_cking 'mal cojido', but I do love you. Can a person be a f* something and a 'mal cojido' at same time? I am also feeling a f_cking 'mal cojida' today, hahahaha!!! ;D ====== Read some of Oliver Sacks' books, dear coderman. It explains a lot some of the mentioned situations in NY Times' post. He was a crazy junkie, a lone wolf, but his absence of fear of testing and being able to surviving to our own experiences only made us crazier. Not stronger, not weaker, just a bit stranger than usual. Mirimir will smile right now. ;) He never answered to my last message, but some days before he said my boyfriend was a complete jerk. I said "Oh, he loves your books!!!" "Yep, and is your boyfriend. He is a jerk but has good taste!" ====== Mark, Cici sounds pretty sweet. Thank you...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:29 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 17:31 Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:01:07 +0000 coderman <coderman@protonmail.com> wrote:
Small Number of Covid Patients Develop Severe Psychotic Symptoms
coderman is spamming the worst kind of US govt propaganda. His score as US govt agent keeps increasing.
coderman is a gentleman, too pure for this list in some moments, my darling. Do not be unfair.
your character and role playing are getting old Cecilia. Now, here's chance for you to make an actual 'cypherpunk' post. Coderman was promoting cloudflare-NSA. Explain why coderman is working for the enemy.
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 21:11 Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:29 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
your character and role playing are getting old Cecilia.
Oh, probably because I am getting old too, my dear. And maybe because it
is _not_ a character. It's just me.
Now, here's chance for you to make an actual 'cypherpunk' post.
Yep, and I have several chances like this, in several places, all the days and nights. But I and my huge ego will choose the right moment, the subject, the persona to be used, not you. Eat chocolate, please. Something yummy, some carbo, for Darwin' sake! >:( Coderman was promoting cloudflare-NSA. Explain why coderman is working
for the enemy.
Juan, it would be f* illogical. Are you forgetting I donated my f* DNA for trying to save lives?! Sh*t, I've already sold my soul to the devil, friend. I was not joking or creating new conspiracy theories just for fun. I know it was f* f* f* stupid, but one single life can be much more precious than mine. Oliver Sachs, for example, could save the sanity and the life of one of my best friends, but he is dead. Fucking definitely dead. And only thing I can do for my friend is sending daily songs and music because the disease is faster than his doctors, than my researches with three Medical School students (crazy volunteers who know about my insane reputation), than all my fears... Can you imagine how I would feel without music or sounds? My parents' voice or the sound of the storms? I love rain, but the storms have a special place in my heart. All the f* sounds have a special place in my heart. My friend only wants to hear his kids, his wife, his parents... I am much more worried about my sick friend, my parents, my siblings, everybody who is really important for me than about "Oh, what the Cypherpunks List will think about my wise cypherpunk magical colorful words?!" We all know I fucked my whole life and compromised the security of some operations "giving" my DNA, but unfortunately my f* stupid government got it last year, anyway. So, now I will destroy governments in my own way. And maybe using my DNA! ;) Science, Juan. It's my religion. Always remember it. Well, I almost married with the Flying Spaghetti Monster blessings, but Pasta is Perfection. And Cooking is Science too! :P Even believing in Science, I can read coderman's mind right now: "My 2019 was about staying away from people being negative... My 2020 was about staying away from people being positive, uff..."
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:23:49 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 21:11 Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:29 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
your character and role playing are getting old Cecilia.
Oh, probably because I am getting old too, my dear. And maybe because it
is _not_ a character. It's just me.
Now, here's chance for you to make an actual 'cypherpunk' post.
Yep, and I have several chances like this, in several places, all the days and nights. But I and my huge ego will choose the right moment, the subject, the persona to be used, not you.
bottom line : the only stuff you can post is the completely idiotic, completely off-topic stuff you constantly post.
participants (6)
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Cecilia Tanaka
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coderman
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Douglas Lucas
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Karl
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Karl Semich
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Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0