On 4/26/16, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:

Zeenan wanted to make a fucking subgroup email group and was told fr others to keep it here

Not fucking paying attention to reality ... what can we boot for that shit

There is evidently a tension between what some folks want to read/write about, what others want, and what still some others want. Me, I just want an uncensored list, where people who go off the rails occasionally are forgiven and otherwise accommodated, and those who stay off their derailed one track mind get killfiled so the rest get on with life. I always hold that we ought respect the founder's' intentions for any particular list. Those who wish to host should have an expectation that if they don't respect the founders' intentions repeatedly, they will be routed around. The intention of a group may shift over time too - and seems like some hold that either the list is getting generally off topic for what it should be, or that the intention of the list has shifted. It is my intention to associate with others, both online and offline, who want to have robust communication (which implies some accommodation and forgiveness), who want to live freedom of speech and other "human rights", and who might be competent to inform me personally when I'm actually off the rails. Instantiating online forums is relatively low friction and low cost these days. The email list format is certainly preferable to me over forums and blogs-with-comments - too much irresistible tendency to censor^Wmoderate with forums and blogs. The heady days of the crypto pioneers has transformed a little - we're more settlers now although there is always room and excitement re the pioneer. But life changes, history informs us, and right now our world faces some rather big things - in the 1990s the big thing -was- pgp/gpg, https, and all the variations and possibilities we could imagine. Ebay, Amazon and Google seem to have won that game - is anyone surprised? Now the crypto front is rapidly turning into a mono culture as per that very poignant recent blog/article that was posted a few weeks back - so we must bless each other and thank fruck for D J Bernstein and the next wave of mega corporates who will ride that pony to their billions. So inspiring, original and pioneering yeah? At this point in history the global financial and political system was/ is (or appears to be) on a precipice - some big and bold geopolitical and financial plays are happening around the world and there's plenty of turmoil, perhaps more than ever in history (e.g. for those unaware, two of the BRICS nations are currently experiencing the American CIAs anal "color revolution" probes - this battle certainly ain't over yet). I'm also very interested in private communication, pseudonymous communication, digital currencies - unfortunately I see no silver bullets to the real problems we face though. Human dignity can only be had by those who stand, who claim their rights rather than beg for some safety and privileges, who value things beyond self, that part of humans which strives for something greater than mere physical comfort and indolence. The happy go yippee hippies are rightly derided when they transform into 'hip' go yippee yuppies in their beemas or teslas demanding a sealed road to their fancy new storybook house - this has happened all up and down the eastern coast of Australia - once pristine paradisaical surfing shanty nature spots have mostly all become mini metropolii, supermarkets, parking lots, endless sealed roads and creeaking mansions. This is really sad. And the Australian eastern coast is ginormous - a few thousand kilometers. Humans.

So yes. fuck off with your whining. Not to mention that this list is

On 04/27/2016 12:58 AM, Александр wrote: based on PUNK and not just on crypto.

And that all those "punk without crypto issues"​​ AFFECT the crypto in the most serious way!

I was thinking along similar lines, given that "Fuck you, I do what I want" is as good a working definition of Punk as any. On the other hand there is the Cypher- component of the title, so herding the anarchists in that general direction topic-wise is a community service in the category of maintenance: A thankless menial task that makes the rest possible. Anarchy is a journey, not a destination, so there is no point at which one can hang up a "mission accomplished" banner. But Dilbert's pointy haired boss just got orders from /his/ boss to put back doors in the company's crypto-enabled products: http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-18 http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-19 http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-20 http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-21 http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-22 Also this: "Michael Hayden, the former head of the CIA and the NSA, thinks the US government should stop railing against encryption and should support strong crypto rather than asking for backdoors." https://motherboard.vice.com/read/former-nsa-chief-strongly-disagrees-with-c... vs. https://tinyurl.com/gpoxmhl It would not be accurate to say that the Cypherpunks have won the Crypto Wars that too is a journey, not a destination. But damn. Meanwhile, kicking around some of the "real world" topics that make crypto-anarchy relevant and necessary IRL seems appropriate to me, as long as the crypto- side of the equation doesn't get drowned out by the -anarchy side. Subscribers who air their passionate ignorance on the political front serve as a reminder that propagandists see "smart people" as nothing but another demographic with exploitable weaknesses, an object lesson for all the "rebellious" folks out there. :o)