At 04:37 PM 1/18/2014, James A. Donald wrote:

Girl enters list that discusses intellectual topics.

Sorry, James, but we really don't need sexist or racist trolling here. This is Cypherpunks, and we've got plenty of appropriate things to troll about. I was driving the other day, and caught part of Obama's weasel-speech about how he's issuing orders to the NSA not to get caught so blatantly. Had to turn it off, because throwing things at the radio while driving isn't safe. I might have been able to sit through more of it if I'd been home on my couch with enough beer to do the "drink if he says something blatantly ridiculous" bingo game, or at the bar at Shmoocon or something.

On 01/19/2014 10:22 AM, James A. Donald wrote:

Characteristically male environments are characteristically male because of characteristically male virtues^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hprivilege. FTFY. Jackass.

Dude. Oh. That's totally right. Natch. Got it now. "James A. Donald" wrote:

On 01/19/2014 10:22 AM, James A. Donald wrote:

...

...

Characteristically male environments are characteristically male because of characteristically male

On 2014-01-19 19:36, Mike Gogulski wrote:

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privilege.

If it was privilege, it would not have been necessary to kill Amelia Earhart and Kara Hultgreen in the effort to manufacture poster girls.

On 2014-01-20 05:48, J.A. Terranson wrote:

- Amelia Earhart is a still un-caused crash.

The reason they would not let her pilot the plane on the flight for which she got the ticker tape parade is that she could not safely pilot the plane for which she got the ticker tape parade. That they would not let her fly it, despite extreme pressure to do so, suggests that if the had let her fly it, she would have gotten killed all the faster. If unsafe to let her fly one plane, unsafe to let her fly another very similar plane.

- Kara Hultgreen died because she was a crappy pilot

They have been looking for a female pilot for the navy ever since they had aircraft carriers. In all these years, could not find one, so, under ever increasing pressure to include women, decided to go with Kara Hultgreen, because she was the best, which is to say the least bad they could find. PC killed Amelia Earhart, and PC killed Kara Hultgreen. Similarly, successful businesses stuff all their female executives into HR, keeping them away from decisions that could screw up the business. In due course, we will have non flying navy pilots with same uniforms and honors as flying navy pilots, and all the female pilots will be non flying. All the naval pilots that actually fly will be given girly uniforms. Emasculation will be required in order to provide a more female friendly environment for the non flying pilots.

James A. Donald wrote:

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Similarly, successful businesses stuff all their female executives into HR, keeping them away from decisions that could screw up the business.

J.A. Terranson wrote:

You need to wake up! Look around, there are a lot of female ceo's of big business today. Even Fortune 100 companies.

And was HP a *successful* business once it appointed a female CEO? Businesses appoint female CEOs for political reasons, and it usually has a bad outcome.

This is just your fear of feminization coming out

Compare photos of men of 1950, with photos of men today. We *are* being forcibly feminized. It is unpleasant, distressing, humiliating, degrading, and contrary to our natures. Either that, or something in the water is making testosterone levels and sperm counts drop like a stone. You might blame evil pollution by evil capitalists rather than forced feminization, but undeniably something really bad is happening. And the fact that no one is paying attention suggests that the problem is forced feminization rather than some mystery pollutant. If it was likely that it is plastic softeners in the drinking water, we would have more official scientists making a officially big deal about it than about global warming.

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:

We're coming at this from the wrong angle.

We need a plane that flies women, not a woman to fly a plane!

with that heated discussion at a close, is this also the forum where i can complain about earthhumans? those meat bags are such buggy bastards! wetware all sorts of tangled with antiquated and historical predispositions... how can anyone logically reason in such a thing?? (those bulbous chemical networks balanced atop meat bag suits, that is. i forget what they call them, :) best regards, except to earthhumans.

Dnia poniedziałek, 20 stycznia 2014 11:17:58 Lodewijk andré de la porte pisze:

On Jan 20, 2014 5:19 AM, "coderman" wrote:

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except to earthhumans.

As opposed to Marshumans. Their nonexistence is perfectly pleasing.

Does that imply Marshumans eat hmallows by the fire? Are we eating some magical Mars-originating stuff that magically appeared on earth at some point in time? ;) -- Pozdr rysiek

F-14A Mishap Investigation Report full text http://www.panix.com/~baldwin/hultgreen_mir.txt --dan

then they deserve a condescending pat on the head when they show up in male forums and need to be gently shepherded to a properly feminine environment, where they will not feel so out of place.

Would love to see you work in an office filled with women. Nursing is pretty much all female I believe. Reg. Hultgreen, anacdotal. Reg. Cari, no idea what you're talking about. 2014/1/19

Let's experimentally determine whether science qualifies as troll food:

http://www.pnas.org/content/111/2/823

"diffusion tensor imaging in a sample of 949 youths (aged 8–22 y, 428 males and 521 females)" So, what you train more in you get better at. Go figure! There brains were already affected by the roles given to them in society.

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014, James A. Donald wrote:

In an effort to manufacture a poster girl, Hultgreen was required to attempt to land on an aircraft carrier, and in due course, killed herself, demonstrating why every naval pilot is male.

Actually, Revlon was merely a shitty pilot. Her orginal callsign was "Hulk", because she had almost superhuman strength and endurance (she belonged in a combat position with the Army, not the Air Force - she'd have been a perfect Infantrywoman). She earned the "Revlon" moniker for applying heavy makeup prior to a USAF interview which was, ironically, touting her as the first woman to be rated for combat air missions. Her crappy flying skills do demonstrate that *all* women are incapable of flying in combat, it proves only that *she* was incapable of flying (in or out of a) combat mission,

You can affirmative action women to all sorts of jobs, and furtively have a white male do the actual job, but the reason all naval pilots are males is that when you affirmative action someone to naval pilot and expect them to land on a carrier, they die.

Agreed - when you A/A anyone into such a position where they are unsafe and unqualified, they die. It has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with being capable of doing the job (flying, shooting at others in the bushes in front of you, whatever).

There is room in an office for males to do the actual work, but there is no room in a warplane for a second pilot to do the actual piloting.

This is a non-sensical statement because it is sitting on a broken foundation. It defies the basic laws of the universe to make such an assumption (since it is not evidence based, it is actually just mere speculation).

You can put girls in the army, and all that immediately happens is that the march slows down,

Bullshit. The NYPD Academy started admitting women (ok, girls when they are just 18) in 1980 IIRC: the NYPD Academy *was* (it changed several years later after a *male* complained (and sued too I think) that it was "hazing" new recruits by treating them as hard in school has they would be tested on the streets of New York. A court agreed, and *bam*, the "abusive" behaviour stopped. Personally, I didnt think it was abusive, I thought it was absolutely necessary to screen applicants who couldn't cut it in the real world. Plenty of women graduated from "abusive" Academy classes in the intervening years, and many went on to be decent cops. Some went on to be dripping bags of tears too: just like the "men".

They tested her, in testing she repeated made errors that would have killed her.

Precisely. She was not *qualified* to do the work for which they wanted positive publicity - she was unqualified because she was a shitty pilot, not because she was female.

She was the best female pilot available, so they had her do real landings regardless, so that they could have a poster girl.

Yes. They should have waited for a more competent female pilot, and placed her in a position for which she was more qualified. Maybe for the #2 seat???

Amelia Earhart was initially given a ticker tape parade and a meeting with the president for being flown across the Atlantic like a sack of potatoes by a male pilot, but the cognitive dissonance being too great, such a poster girl attracting ridicule, they eventually had Amelia Earhart and Kara Hultgreen attempt to perform difficult piloting tasks for real, killing them.

"they" didnt have Earhardt do anything: she wanted to go, and she was likely fully qualified. A lot of strangeness surrounded her loss, most of this strangeness appears to suggest she had a partial radio failure which stopped her ground support team from contacting her to bring her in in low visibility weather (no radars then, at lt least, not for planes.

In due course we will have female naval pilots with same uniforms as male pilots. The unisex uniforms will be made girly.

Really? I suspect the flight suits will remain as they are: built for the requirements of the pilot in the environment of a specific aircraft. Why would they make the flight suits "girly"? That makes no sense.

The traditions will be made girlie or abolished.

Oh My GAWD!!!! Nooooo.... Say it aint so! <barf> This is conjectural bullshit, and you are smart enough that you *should* know it*!

Male camraderie will be forbidden.

Depending on the definition of "male comraderie", maybe so. Maybe it *needs* to change anyway?

References to nuts and bolts will be forbidden as excessively sexist.

Conjecture. Now, if your problem is that you feel intimidated talking about your dick in front of a femal compatriot, that an issue for you and the air force headshinker.

But the female naval pilots will not actually be required to fly carrier planes.

Nobody is *required* to fly carrier planes today! They don't want pilots who don't *want* [very badly] to fly carrier based craft, as these people will inevitibly fuck up at some point, killing the pilot, plane, and possibly others as well. You have to volunteer *before* you can attempt to get rated for carrier based aviation. Get a grip man! //Alif -- Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. An American Spring is coming: one way or another.

From: James A. Donald To: J.A. Terranson On 2014-01-20 06:23, J.A. Terranson wrote:

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They should have waited for a more competent female pilot, They have been waiting over sixty years.

Jacqueline Cochrane was said to be very good.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran   She figured prominently in Chuck Yeager's autobiography, as I recall.         Jim Bell

James, you are a tough man to argue with. So here's a big hug and sloppy kiss. The male stench is fantasticly seductive. Fuck me, big boy. Those women, what can you do with them except kill them, rape them, steal their money, use them as maids, and cum buckets, abuse moms and sisters like your dad and uncles and brothers and other spoiled assholes do, blame the damn women (and their minority stigmatized) for all kinds of shit an insecure man would cut your throat for doing. We men have got to be careful to avoid pregnancy, so lets abuse little boys, bring them into our society, teach them to hate women and minorities, never forget who's boss liar and cheater and murderer and genocider and defouler of the planet. White men who love trashing anybody unlike them, that's the ticket. That there is no such thing as a pure white man doesn't matter, and that most men of all colors are completely dependent upon women and servants, is changing the subject, the main point your argument is belief in this purity of white manhood is the highest code of big talkers. At 03:06 PM 1/19/2014, you wrote:

On 2014-01-20 01:16, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:

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Reg. Hultgreen, anacdotal. Reg. Cari, no idea what you're talking about.

In an effort to manufacture a poster girl, Hultgreen was required to attempt to land on an aircraft carrier, and in due course, killed herself, demonstrating why every naval pilot is male.

You can affirmative action women to all sorts of jobs, and furtively have a white male do the actual job, but the reason all naval pilots are males is that when you affirmative action someone to naval pilot and expect them to land on a carrier, they die. There is room in an office for males to do the actual work, but there is no room in a warplane for a second pilot to do the actual piloting.

You can put girls in the army, and all that immediately happens is that the march slows down, but you cannot put girls in the naval airforce, and make the carriers bigger and the planes slower. In a plane built for male abilities, landing on a ship built for male abilities, they have to fly like males. And, of course, they cannot. They tested her, in testing she repeated made errors that would have killed her. She was the best female pilot available, so they had her do real landings regardless, so that they could have a poster girl.

Amelia Earhart was initially given a ticker tape parade and a meeting with the president for being flown across the Atlantic like a sack of potatoes by a male pilot, but the cognitive dissonance being too great, such a poster girl attracting ridicule, they eventually had Amelia Earhart and Kara Hultgreen attempt to perform difficult piloting tasks for real, killing them.

In due course we will have female naval pilots with same uniforms as male pilots. The unisex uniforms will be made girly. The traditions will be made girlie or abolished. Male camraderie will be forbidden. References to nuts and bolts will be forbidden as excessively sexist. But the female naval pilots will not actually be required to fly carrier planes.

"It's a Man's World, and It Always Will Be" Camille Paglia http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/16/its-a-mans-world-and-it-always-will-be/prin... [ note URL -> the Munk Debates at the bottom for more ]