Fwd: [Cryptography] Schneier's Internet Security Agency - bad idea because we don't know what it will do
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Schneier's Internet Security Agency - bad idea because we don't know what it will do To: Ian G <iang@iang.org> Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com At 07:26 AM 2/25/2017, Ian G wrote:
Bruce Schneier has recently published an impassioned plea for a United States Federal Internet Security Agency, which would likely gain control of civilian cryptography, among many other munitions. The essay is impassioned, it is much longer than his normal 2 pagers, which signals something - belief, preparedness, foundation?
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/the-internet-of-things-dangerous-future-b...
When I was growing up, there was a daily newspaper cartoon entitled "There oughta be a law!" http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/there_oughta_be_a_la... However, after I grew up, studied computer science, and finally understood *undecidability*, I realized that a "legal"/"lawful" solution to every problem was logically and mathematically impossible. Here we are 80+ years after undecidability raised its ugly head and destroyed the "Age of Enlightenment"/"Age of Reason", and yet no legal scholars, lawyers, economists, or public policy people living today have even heard of this concept of undecidability, much less understand that it renders most of their efforts more futile than Sisyphus's. The Clockwork Economy/Clockwork Legal System -- in which bright lines separate good from evil -- has been replaced by a mishmash of hills & valleys separated by fractal "boundaries" which I defy you to characterize in a finite lawbook. I'm embarrassed for Bruce Schneier who certainly should know better; perhaps this is a forgivable error which he will correct soon enough. If not, I should begin to wonder if he's been taken over to the dark side (aka the intel community), where fake news, disinformation and extra-Constitutional excursions are considered honorable pursuits. The bottom line: if you're attempting to oversee/regulate a Turing-complete system (i.e., essentially *every* societal system), adding additional "oversight" turtles to your toppling stack of existing turtles won't help a bit. I.e., if a Halting Problem oracle doesn't exist, you can write all the laws you wish about creating a Halting Problem Agency ("oracle"), but that won't make such an oracle magically exist. Even Abraham Lincoln understood that giving some impossible concept a name doesn't make it exist: When asked "How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg?", Lincoln answered, "Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg." Schneier should contemplate Gerald Ford's famous remark: "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Benjamin Franklin understood that the pursuit of safety/security was a bottomless pit/hopeless exercise: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". _______________________________________________ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
On 02/26/2017 07:20 PM, grarpamp wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Schneier's Internet Security Agency - bad idea because we don't know what it will do To: Ian G <iang@iang.org> Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com
<SNIP>
I'm embarrassed for Bruce Schneier who certainly should know better; perhaps this is a forgivable error which he will correct soon enough. If not, I should begin to wonder if he's been taken over to the dark side (aka the intel community), where fake news, disinformation and extra-Constitutional excursions are considered honorable pursuits.
Yep, he's lost it, for sure :( <SNIP>
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:06:54 -0700 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Yep, he's lost it, for sure :(
schneier is a fucking fraud like the rest of the tor 'community' - that includes anynonymous coward mirimir of course hell, the whole pentagon funded 'hacking' 'community' is a fraud. Only the americunts can manage that sort of industrial scale fraud.
<SNIP>
What are your sources for these accusations? On Feb 26, 2017 22:18, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:06:54 -0700 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Yep, he's lost it, for sure :(
schneier is a fucking fraud like the rest of the tor 'community' - that includes anynonymous coward mirimir of course
hell, the whole pentagon funded 'hacking' 'community' is a fraud. Only the americunts can manage that sort of industrial scale fraud.
<SNIP>
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:21:54 -0500 swalow swalow <sswalow@gmail.com> wrote:
What are your sources for these accusations?
the source for the accusation is me, and the proof of the accusation is the chemically pure US military propaganda that schneier posts in his blog virtually every day.
On Feb 26, 2017 22:18, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:06:54 -0700 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Yep, he's lost it, for sure :(
schneier is a fucking fraud like the rest of the tor 'community' - that includes anynonymous coward mirimir of course
hell, the whole pentagon funded 'hacking' 'community' is a fraud. Only the americunts can manage that sort of industrial scale fraud.
<SNIP>
On 02/26/2017 07:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 22:21:54 -0500 swalow swalow <sswalow@gmail.com> wrote:
What are your sources for these accusations?
the source for the accusation is me, and the proof of the accusation is the chemically pure US military propaganda that schneier posts in his blog virtually every day.
You're supposed to use your critical analytical skills to pick the fly feces out of the pepper. For instance William Arkin did some incredible work at the Wapo before they ditched him, but in order to get the kind of information ... to have the connections... you have to literally be leading a double life, and it makes you crazy. Mike Rupert, author of "Crossing the Rubicon" is another example. A former LAPD detective who had been married to a CIA operator writing a debunking of the official 9/11 story. He DID have the connections too. In the Forward he wrote about Navy hardhat divers working around the legs of the oil platforms off the coast of New Orleans fastening containers of herowhine to them for mob-related 'workboats' to pick up and bring ashore. I told my Mil-Intel connected dad that, and he just smiled, and mentioned the name of the mobster who controlled the New Orleans docks. He knew that was fact. Most people would think it's fantasy-fiction spy thriller novel stuff, and walking the line between that world and the rest of the world makes you crazy. Rr
On Feb 26, 2017 22:18, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:06:54 -0700 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
Yep, he's lost it, for sure :(
schneier is a fucking fraud like the rest of the tor 'community' - that includes anynonymous coward mirimir of course
hell, the whole pentagon funded 'hacking' 'community' is a fraud. Only the americunts can manage that sort of industrial scale fraud.
<SNIP>
On 02/26/2017 06:20 PM, grarpamp wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Schneier's Internet Security Agency - bad idea because we don't know what it will do To: Ian G <iang@iang.org> Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com
At 07:26 AM 2/25/2017, Ian G wrote:
Bruce Schneier has recently published an impassioned plea for a United States Federal Internet Security Agency, which would likely gain control of civilian cryptography, among many other munitions. The essay is impassioned, it is much longer than his normal 2 pagers, which signals something - belief, preparedness, foundation?
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/the-internet-of-things-dangerous-future-b...
I saw this go by on my rss scroll the other day and I thought, as Mirimir said, "He's lost it". Rr
On February 26, 2017 10:41:57 PM EST, Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
On 02/26/2017 06:20 PM, grarpamp wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Schneier's Internet Security Agency - bad idea because we don't know what it will do To: Ian G <iang@iang.org> Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com
At 07:26 AM 2/25/2017, Ian G wrote:
Bruce Schneier has recently published an impassioned plea for a United States Federal Internet Security Agency, which would likely gain control of civilian cryptography, among many other munitions. The essay is impassioned, it is much longer than his normal 2 pagers, which signals something - belief, preparedness, foundation?
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/the-internet-of-things-dangerous-future-b...
I saw this go by on my rss scroll the other day and I thought, as Mirimir said, "He's lost it".
Rr
There's something like 4 out of over 530 members of Congress who's college background includes computer science. Our "lawmakers" (may they rot and die) have made it abundantly clear they don't understand technology with their absurd debates over encryption. Bruce is saying some scary shit for sure.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 02/26/2017 09:20 PM, grarpamp wrote:
I'm embarrassed for Bruce Schneier who certainly should know better; perhaps this is a forgivable error which he will correct soon enough. If not, I should begin to wonder if he's been taken over to the dark side (aka the intel community), where fake news, disinformation and extra-Constitutional excursions are considered honorable pursuits.
Bruce is many things, stupid is not one of them. Nor can I reasonably imagine him failing to do at least casual fact checking before making a Grand Pronouncement. But when he unconditionally endorsed the Russian Hacking narrative launched by the Obama Administration in October, 2016, he explicitly stated that the Obama Administration refrained from announcing the scandal until /after/ the general election. That's a direct lie. And neither I nor, apparently, anyone else who as examined the narrative has found any indicators of evidence in support of the assertions made. One can easily imagine that Bruce took a job on the TOR Project board as an investment his public image as a "maverick" security expert; or even that he imagined he could serve a "watchdog" function there. But now it seems plausible that he may have rolled all the way over and embraced the Security State there and then. If not then, it did not take him very long to do so with this new Internet Security Agency bullshit. Bruce used to be one of the few consistent voices for sanity on the "security fundamentals" front in the Corporate and Policy worlds. Oh well. One can only wish him ignominious failure in his future endeavors, until or unless he chucks the load of shit he has picked up overboard - and does something of material value to make reparations: No act of penance, no absolution. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYtjT5AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqwuUH/3Z2Y2ZGK4lRZa4zzLVPhH8t OiXzifuhldDVqzo0XehYIYlyw/PwHblnjYOX3Dq2NBdlq87LoZKS2QMiJzZmjj0R RhLCm0jVZ48cIMaRT80JOu1uwwy7/iMTdgxcW+0wiS+WZqgVVZD8vorMs+8Dkn4F 7LOgUutPy2XCaarFDaSAshM2pdaYlkZvhOVJn2Fkvyf7QjX4wUgYeLbZ/9H05EY4 CsVIXpAGp3DCTw0rbri9Bc8HFijK8GVpFj5UBQnfvRLYKejEhpdE3jHRPb7oT90D s78NTpAyQuLOroXr1v6libdeXFYKD8D3sKQd1TrukDIYt7OuSqXEwzCz1c3WoE4= =QKmh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/01/2017 04:06 AM, grarpamp wrote:
What you quote not wrote by me.
Sorry, my bad. Lost track of how many layers deep it was. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYtvuTAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq2/sIAMj4sGFnhP/f5pKDcw43rgK/ eDMUQi8tQisQCFXzZfCA8qJmUx3FolStYFoVZ8ToixitLpXZrxiw1WikeGO+g7GX 39IArelEU9DwDClK/qSP4jkGX6tgEZxlufnqfbGWO6nv9C6whsOc9kbDTL9eBlkD ZsZtzuqfhdYMjow34fmhNan/Q757boMIy5UqxunBekZEGhj8AjggkCmvYkJHhDnX lVlj1XBIAIZmotjME2JIhe9STgHUztMPvL6tqpUWTfkfjysSH3HTmi7YpToIsUoS 4JLLW4sZvHfoxOUXabL+//GDxEmLOeThQqCQlnF1blnqSoSwkZaDoqzxHkD/L5g= =55Mp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (7)
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grarpamp -
John Newman -
juan -
Mirimir -
Razer -
Steve Kinney -
swalow swalow