Nominee officers and directors (was: Why cryptome sold web logs...)
Despite almost two decades of cypherpunk activity I cannot fathom why U.S. residents operate sites clearly in the cross-hairs of intel agencies. Have they never heard of non-resident nominee officers and directors? All U.S. resident people dealing with the site should be bona fide contractors so they aren't subject to either receiving or implementing court orders or NSLs. -------- Original Message -------- From: bbrewer <bbrewer@littledystopia.net> Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces@cpunks.org To: Michael Best <themikebest@gmail.com> Cc: cpunks <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>, cryptome <cryptome@freelists.org> Subject: Re: [cryptome] Re: Why cryptome sold web logs to their payingcustomers? Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 16:30:00 -0400
On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michael Best <themikebest@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyway to rule this out other than hearing it from John? How long before we begin to seriously consider it or assume it?
And if there was a NSL, why not shut down? Why put users at ongoing risk??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit
"Levison said that he could be arrested for closing the site instead of releasing the information, and it was reported that the federal prosecutor's office had sent Levison's lawyer an e-mail to that effect.”
I’m just blabbering on suppositions here, but I wouldn’t be surprised by… anything.
-benjamin
On 10/11/15, wirelesswarrior@safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior@safe-mail.net> wrote:
Despite almost two decades of cypherpunk activity I cannot fathom why U.S. residents operate sites clearly in the cross-hairs of intel agencies.
there is a specific gambit or protection as US citizen operating a personal service with personal resources and not in any formal or for-profit manner. in some circumstances, against some adversaries, this provides the best "signal of interest" to respond to, although as you state: absolute protection is near impossible in a moment, let alone maintained... it works great... until it doesn't? [ ah well, grarpamp said we were playing for keeps! *grin* ]
Americans often have mindsets that reflect the states isolationism cause the parasite of the state lives happily in them On Oct 12, 2015 2:22 AM, "coderman" <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/11/15, wirelesswarrior@safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior@safe-mail.net> wrote:
Despite almost two decades of cypherpunk activity I cannot fathom why U.S. residents operate sites clearly in the cross-hairs of intel agencies.
there is a specific gambit or protection as US citizen operating a personal service with personal resources and not in any formal or for-profit manner.
in some circumstances, against some adversaries, this provides the best "signal of interest" to respond to, although as you state: absolute protection is near impossible in a moment, let alone maintained...
it works great... until it doesn't? [ ah well, grarpamp said we were playing for keeps! *grin* ]
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 7:18 PM, coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
there is a specific gambit or protection as US citizen operating a personal service with personal resources and not in any formal or for-profit manner.
The US does offer some things comparatively strong vs other States. Yet in this game... strength in effect, not words on paper, is the bar one should measure against.
We welcome NSLs, tango downs, malware, shutdowns, DMCA demands, hacks, official visits and warnings, fingerpointing and accusations, subpoenas, and indictments. If happened, published. No indictments, yet. "Bluffs will be published if comical but otherwise ignored." Our geriatric blurb: Cryptome welcomes documents for publication that are prohibited by governments worldwide, in particular material on freedom of expression, privacy, cryptology, dual-use technologies, national security, intelligence, and secret governance -- open, secret and classified documents -- but not limited to those. Documents are removed from this site only by order served directly by a US court having jurisdiction. No court order has ever been served; any order served will be published here -- or elsewhere if gagged by order. Bluffs will be published if comical but otherwise ignored. At 06:50 PM 10/11/2015, you wrote:
Despite almost two decades of cypherpunk activity I cannot fathom why U.S. residents operate sites clearly in the cross-hairs of intel agencies. Have they never heard of non-resident nominee officers and directors? All U.S. resident people dealing with the site should be bona fide contractors so they aren't subject to either receiving or implementing court orders or NSLs.
-------- Original Message -------- From: bbrewer <bbrewer@littledystopia.net> Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces@cpunks.org To: Michael Best <themikebest@gmail.com> Cc: cpunks <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>, cryptome <cryptome@freelists.org> Subject: Re: [cryptome] Re: Why cryptome sold web logs to their payingcustomers? Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 16:30:00 -0400
On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michael Best <themikebest@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyway to rule this out other than hearing
it from John? How long before we begin to seriously consider it or assume it?
And if there was a NSL, why not shut down?
Why put users at ongoing risk??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit
"Levison said that he could be arrested for closing the site instead of releasing the information, and it was reported that the federal prosecutor's office had sent Levison's lawyer an e-mail to that effect.â
Iâm just blabbering on suppositions here, but I wouldnât be surprised by anything.
-benjamin
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 8:06 PM, John Young <jya@pipeline.com> wrote:
Documents are removed from this site only by order served directly by a US court having jurisdiction.
Belief is that some docs (particularly those in the junk / history category) have been removed without such order, instead of left for audience review. References elude, diff the great archives to find.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 How does an individual become a "bona fide contractor" to avoid being "subject to either receiving or implementing court orders or NSLs" as you put it, and in what circumstances would I want to be a "bona fide contractor?" I am certain not everyone would want to be one, for various reasons. wirelesswarrior@safe-mail.net:
Despite almost two decades of cypherpunk activity I cannot fathom why U.S. residents operate sites clearly in the cross-hairs of intel agencies. Have they never heard of non-resident nominee officers and directors? All U.S. resident people dealing with the site should be bona fide contractors so they aren't subject to either receiving or implementing court orders or NSLs.
-------- Original Message -------- From: bbrewer <bbrewer@littledystopia.net> Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces@cpunks.org To: Michael Best <themikebest@gmail.com> Cc: cpunks <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>, cryptome <cryptome@freelists.org> Subject: Re: [cryptome] Re: Why cryptome sold web logs to their payingcustomers? Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 16:30:00 -0400
On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michael Best <themikebest@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyway to rule this out other than hearing it from John? How long before we begin to seriously consider it or assume it?
And if there was a NSL, why not shut down? Why put users at ongoing risk??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit
"Levison said that he could be arrested for closing the site instead of releasing the information, and it was reported that the federal prosecutor's office had sent Levison's lawyer an e-mail to that effect.”
I’m just blabbering on suppositions here, but I wouldn’t be surprised by… anything.
-benjamin
- -- http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWGycwAAoJEGxwq/inSG8CWhAIALtwbDYFmsWBfWotSiUjb+ja M2Q8RbBQZrxFpSG0PaFLdI9MJ7vn65JHTiq72ufdOz17lD+TewnryczxkDWZjs5W hW4XoH789YIsdbY72iWl7KL9F+YTyvDfkX2vKJDnE7nxNKaOYpRfx4cMTim9WqHe F/nI+W+2G6635N7UNRbqC9oxAmh5i+C307LpdC/q1Q9uLkBO0c9eMWozB8l94WMc DNh+ly/S8CeDt1MHqzD09EjgH0aUUUuPdtm2OBNflKGZ44N6cGltmvoJncONoniW i66vrph8GDzTIf8cC+Km1Y4rOz6rJfsz9MoliFCHe2mgiVTstEZTMcxOJkcfGMc= =Ii8g -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (6)
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Cari Machet -
coderman -
grarpamp -
John Young -
odinn -
wirelesswarrior＠Safe-mail.net