The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age
The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html 6502 microprocessor.
On Wednesday, December 25, 2019, 09:44:21 AM PST, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html 6502 microprocessor. I was a fan of the Z80 microprocessor, which I viewed as 'the 8080 done right'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80 Single +5 supply, single-phase clock, TTL compatible I/O (except for the CLK, which was pulled to +5 with a resistor), and a decoded memory and I/O system. I also thought the relatively large number of internal registers, much more than 6800 or 6502, was more efficient, minimizing memory accesses. The Z80 also had a mirrored set of registers, and an enhanced instruction set, including relative-addressing. It also generated a 7-bit refresh address, making use of DRAM easy. This, however led to a problem when some DRAM manufacturers of 64K DRAMs (I think, including Micron Technology) built DRAM chips needing an 8-bit refresh address. It meant that those DRAMs simply would not work (reliably) if they depended on Z-80 refreshing. If Zilog had only added another counter to that chip in the beginning! Starting in the summer of 1978, I built my homebrew "Bellyache I", the name parodied from the "Illiac IV". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILLIAC_IV I used what would look like S-100 bus hardware, but I was so disgusted by the (lack of) 'architecture' in the S-100 that I merely used a motherboard and prototype boards, and I completely re-defined the bus. This meant that I only could add functions I myself had designed and constructed. The Bellyache I eventually had as many as 600 IC's, and this included my prototype "SemiDisk", a S-100 prototype card with 32 memory sockets, each with 8, 2118 (16K, 5-volt only) DRAMs in CERDIP packages, stacked 8 chips high. This was completed in about October 1980. (I started work at Intel early July 1980) It looked like a brick, and weighed just about as half of one! In implementing that, I had just invented the Disk Emulator, or semiconductor disk. Technically, there may have been a similar thing for mainframes, but mine was the first for Personal Computers. My company, SemiDisk Systems, Inc, eventually built boards for the S-100 bus, Radio Shack Model 2, IBM PC (8-bit bus), IBM AT (16-bit bus), and the Epson QX-10. Jim Bell
On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 18:55:59 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
In implementing that, I had just invented the Disk Emulator, or semiconductor disk. Technically, there may have been a similar thing for mainframes, but mine was the first for Personal Computers.
as if we needed more proof of what kind of fraud so called 'intelectual property' is. XXXX 'technically' existed but I RE-'invented' it anyway haha
On Wednesday, December 25, 2019, 12:43:50 PM PST, Punk-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote: On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 18:55:59 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
In implementing that, I had just invented the Disk Emulator, or semiconductor disk. Technically, there may have been a similar thing for mainframes, but mine was the first for Personal Computers.
as if we needed more proof of what kind of fraud so called 'intelectual property' is.
> XXXX 'technically' existed but I RE-'invented' it anyway haha I didn't attempt to patent my SemiDisk because I considered the idea too obvious. In hindsight, I could probably have obtained a valid patent, at least in personal computers. During the 1990's, there was the phenomenon of "form-factor patents": Features in hard drives were being patented where they were "the first 3.5 inch hard drive to have [fill in the blank]". This was very controversial. The Problem of Reducing Patentability to Novelty ... https://www.ipwatchdog.com › 2017/07/31 › problem-reducing-patentabili... - Jul 31, 2017 - ... became actively involved in patent law policy conversations because the disk drive industry was suffering from so-called “form factor” patents.Jan 15, 2020 - Jan 16, 2020Certified Patent ...Feb 4, 2020 - Feb 5, 2020Certified Patent ...Mar 9, 2020 - Mar 11, 2020Global IP Exchange ... | | | | | | | | | | | Global IP Exchange Europe - IPWatchdog.com | Patents & Patent Law Global IP Exchange Europe 9 – 11 March 2020 | Hotel Palace, Berlin, Germany The Global IP Exchange EU brings tog... | | | Jim Bell
On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 06:55:59PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
On Wednesday, December 25, 2019, 09:44:21 AM PST, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html 6502 microprocessor. I was a fan of the Z80 microprocessor, which I viewed as 'the 8080 done right'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80 Single +5 supply, single-phase clock, TTL compatible I/O (except for the CLK, which was pulled to +5 with a resistor), and a decoded memory and I/O system.
What does that mean (decoded memory, decoded IO)?
I also thought the relatively large number of internal registers, much more than 6800 or 6502, was more efficient, minimizing memory accesses. The Z80 also had a mirrored set of registers, and an enhanced instruction set, including relative-addressing. It also generated a 7-bit refresh address, making use of DRAM easy. This, however led to a problem when some DRAM manufacturers of 64K DRAMs (I think, including Micron Technology) built DRAM chips needing an 8-bit refresh address. It meant that those DRAMs simply would not work (reliably) if they depended on Z-80 refreshing. If Zilog had only added another counter to that chip in the beginning!
Starting in the summer of 1978, I built my homebrew "Bellyache I", the name parodied from the "Illiac IV". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILLIAC_IV I used what would look like S-100 bus hardware, but I was so disgusted by the (lack of) 'architecture' in the S-100 that I merely used a motherboard and prototype boards, and I completely re-defined the bus. This meant that I only could add functions I myself had designed and constructed. The Bellyache I eventually had as many as 600 IC's, and this included my prototype "SemiDisk", a S-100 prototype card with 32 memory sockets, each with 8, 2118 (16K, 5-volt only) DRAMs in CERDIP packages, stacked 8 chips high. This was completed in about October 1980. (I started work at Intel early July 1980) It looked like a brick, and weighed just about as half of one! In implementing that, I had just invented the Disk Emulator, or semiconductor disk. Technically, there may have been a similar thing for mainframes, but mine was the first for Personal Computers. My company, SemiDisk Systems, Inc, eventually built boards for the S-100 bus, Radio Shack Model 2, IBM PC (8-bit bus), IBM AT (16-bit bus), and the Epson QX-10. Jim Bell
On Wednesday, December 25, 2019, 04:53:24 PM PST, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote: On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 06:55:59PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
On Wednesday, December 25, 2019, 09:44:21 AM PST, jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html
6502 microprocessor. I was a fan of the Z80 microprocessor, which I viewed as 'the 8080 done right'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80 Single +5 supply, single-phase clock, TTL compatible I/O (except for the CLK, which was pulled to +5 with a resistor), and a decoded memory and I/O system.
What does that mean (decoded memory, decoded IO)?
The Z-80 has four signal lines to do memory and io: /MREQ, /IOREQ, /RD, and /WR/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80 To do a memory read, the /MREQ line goes low, and then the /RD also goes low.To do a memory write, the /MREQ line goes low, and then the /WR also goes low.To do an I/O read, the /IORQ line goes low, and then the /RD also goes low.To do an I/O write, the /IORQ line goes low, and then the /WR also goes low. This is simple and straightforward. The 8080 had a much more complicated system, but it was solved by the use of an external control chip, the 8228/8238 "System controller and bus driver": https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/-4828066515233335508This chip read the system state information from the 8080, and from it generated four signals: /MEM R , /MEM W ,/IO R, and /IO W .The 8228/8238 also buffered the eight data lines, D0-D7, because the 8080 wasn't really TTL compatible, nor was it capable of driving a large system bus. I considered the Z80 method superior: Because two clocks acted during a given memory cycle, they could control timing. The /MREQ clock could be used, almost directly and maybe directly, to generate the /RAS signal as an input to the DRAMs of the era. The /RD line could be used to turn on the data buffer from the memory chips back to the processor. And the /WR line could be applied, directly or with decoding, to the /WR of the DRAM chips of that era. Very little external circuitry was needed on a small system. There was also a small Intel chip, the 8224, which acted as a crystal clock oscillator, and generated the two non-overlapping clocks, phase 1 and phase 2, which were higher-than TTL clocks. (The Z80 had a single clock, which was almost TTL compatible, but it had to be pulled to +5 volts with a resistor. Of course, I couldn't really blame Intel for the weaknesses of the 8080: During that early 1970's period, Moore's law was working on a transistors-on-a-chip doubling time of somewhere between 12 and 18 months. Since the delay between the design of the 8080 and the Z80 was about 2 years, that means that the Z80 had about a 3x advantage in the number of transistors. Such an increase in the number of transistors solves a lot of problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count I think this graph sucks because it is difficult to read, even expanded. It also omits the 64180, and the various 68010, 68020, 68030, etc. Intel fixed most of the drawbacks of the 8080 in their 8085, but by then the Z80 had taken over. Jim Bell
In the early-1970s, while working for TRW Data Systems (founded by Larry and Doug Michaels, who later founded the early commercial Unix provider Santa Cruz Operations) I led development of a proprietary OS for the Datapoint 2200. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datapoint_2200 The OS ran on a descrete implementation of the 8008 processor after Intel had encountered tech and yield issues. The OS supported drivers for keyboard, CRT, disk and tape drives, telecommunications controlling dozens of specialized remote terminals, and a hashed access database, With dynamic overlays it all fit within 16 KB of RAM. On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:44 PM jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html
6502 microprocessor.
HAHAHHA! SCO! The Silicon Beach pirates ... Linux thieves! Coherent.. I used it on a 386 after playing with Microware's OS9v2 for Color Computers. I stuck with that COCO3 until the early 90s. I refused to use XT 8088s or MS-Dos because they simply couldn't multitask. I put jNos on one, text-file driven tcpip with tools, for ham radio, then put a bunk IP at the end of the nameserver list and pointed the connection that way. It was a ham radio tcp/ip node list. MAYBE a few hundred kilobytes. A half-hour later the XT was STILL chugging it'a way through the nameserver list, and I pulled the plug. Rr Steven Schear wrote:
In the early-1970s, while working for TRW Data Systems (founded by Larry and Doug Michaels, who later founded the early commercial Unix provider Santa Cruz Operations) I led development of a proprietary OS for the Datapoint 2200. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datapoint_2200 The OS ran on a descrete implementation of the 8008 processor after Intel had encountered tech and yield issues. The OS supported drivers for keyboard, CRT, disk and tape drives, telecommunications controlling dozens of specialized remote terminals, and a hashed access database, With dynamic overlays it all fit within 16 KB of RAM.
On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:44 PM jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
The New York Times: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html
6502 microprocessor.
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Friday, December 27, 2019 1:22 AM, Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote: ...
I stuck with that COCO3 until the early 90s. I refused to use XT 8088s or MS-Dos because they simply couldn't multitask. I put jNos on one, text-file driven tcpip with tools, for ham radio, then put a bunk IP at the end of the nameserver list and pointed the connection that way. It was a ham radio tcp/ip node list. MAYBE a few hundred kilobytes. A half-hour later the XT was STILL chugging it'a way through the nameserver list, and I pulled the plug.
should have pressed the TURBO button! ;) best regards, (kudos to anyone who gets it -^ ...)
coderman wrote:
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Friday, December 27, 2019 1:22 AM, Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote: ...
I stuck with that COCO3 until the early 90s. I refused to use XT 8088s or MS-Dos because they simply couldn't multitask. I put jNos on one, text-file driven tcpip with tools, for ham radio, then put a bunk IP at the end of the nameserver list and pointed the connection that way. It was a ham radio tcp/ip node list. MAYBE a few hundred kilobytes. A half-hour later the XT was STILL chugging it'a way through the nameserver list, and I pulled the plug.
should have pressed the TURBO button! ;)
best regards,
(kudos to anyone who gets it -^ ...)
Yeah but it wasn't a turbo model. It also had an ST-225 Seagate disk drive with 'stiction' problems. Had to slap it like an old tube tv set to get it to spin up before the beast errored out. I ran the coherent on an NCR 386 'tablet' that appeared to have been made for route salesman use that a German ham living in the area gave me (I was using an insurance company terminal on Packet radio and it was an 'upgrade'). It came with compiled-on-the-machine Linux, pre-X and I was having fun porting my OS9 knowledge to that OS when I accidentally munched the OS, so I found the Coherent OS disks laying around and had fun with it for a while. XP until it ran out. Then back to Linux/Debian. Currently Debian 8 on an old toshiba 32 bit laptop. Need to upgrade to 64bit one of these days if only because any attempt to update the system, with all sorts of files missing from the repositories, tries to destroy the OS. I still think the thing about 64 bit being more secure than 32 is a lie albeit it IS much faster. Rr
Hi TAZOR how old are you dude like 50 wow -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 27, 2019, 6:07 PM, Razer wrote:
coderman wrote: > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > On Friday, December 27, 2019 1:22 AM, Razer wrote: > ... >> I stuck with that COCO3 until the early 90s. I refused to use XT 8088s >> or MS-Dos because they simply couldn't multitask. I put jNos on one, >> text-file driven tcpip with tools, for ham radio, then put a bunk IP at >> the end of the nameserver list and pointed the connection that way. It >> was a ham radio tcp/ip node list. MAYBE a few hundred kilobytes. A >> half-hour later the XT was STILL chugging it'a way through the >> nameserver list, and I pulled the plug. > > should have pressed the TURBO button! ;) > > > best regards, > > (kudos to anyone who gets it -^ ...) Yeah but it wasn't a turbo model. It also had an ST-225 Seagate disk drive with 'stiction' problems. Had to slap it like an old tube tv set to get it to spin up before the beast errored out. I ran the coherent on an NCR 386 'tablet' that appeared to have been made for route salesman use that a German ham living in the area gave me (I was using an insurance company terminal on Packet radio and it was an 'upgrade'). It came with compiled-on-the-machine Linux, pre-X and I was having fun porting my OS9 knowledge to that OS when I accidentally munched the OS, so I found the Coherent OS disks laying around and had fun with it for a while. XP until it ran out. Then back to Linux/Debian. Currently Debian 8 on an old toshiba 32 bit laptop. Need to upgrade to 64bit one of these days if only because any attempt to update the system, with all sorts of files missing from the repositories, tries to destroy the OS. I still think the thing about 64 bit being more secure than 32 is a lie albeit it IS much faster. Rr
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 01:41 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
Hi TAZOR how old are you dude like 50 wow
Little bot, it is _not_ polite asking someone about their age, weight, vices, homicides, and sexual perversions. Razer's age doesn't matter to anyone. In any case, whether you think it's relevant, he is sexier and much more interesting than you can imagine. And loves music too. You cannot judge anyone for their age, rooty. I have friends between 12 y.o. and 96 y.o. and they always teach me something new or absolutely cool. Young hackers, old jurists... <3 Life is good, even when sucks and is painful. Live your life without hurt other people, please, little one. Tender kisses, take care! ;) sea sea
Merry new year to you sea sea and your main squeeze tazor. You are the best. Your friend rooty -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 28, 2019, 11:09 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 01:41 rooty <arpspoof@protonmail.com> wrote:
Hi TAZOR how old are you dude like 50 wow
Little bot, it is _not_ polite asking someone about their age, weight, vices, homicides, and sexual perversions.
Razer's age doesn't matter to anyone. In any case, whether you think it's relevant, he is sexier and much more interesting than you can imagine. And loves music too.
You cannot judge anyone for their age, rooty. I have friends between 12 y.o. and 96 y.o. and they always teach me something new or absolutely cool. Young hackers, old jurists... <3
Life is good, even when sucks and is painful. Live your life without hurt other people, please, little one.
Tender kisses, take care! ;)
sea sea
participants (8)
-
Cecilia Tanaka -
coderman -
jim bell -
Punk-Stasi 2.0 -
Razer -
rooty -
Steven Schear -
Zenaan Harkness