Cryptocurrency: zk-SNARK Privacy Coins, Why and How They Work
https://z.cash/ https://z.cash/technology/ https://z.cash/upgrade/ https://arxiv.org/abs/1906.07221 Maksym Petkus (Jun 2019) Despite the existence of multiple great resources on zk-SNARK construction, from original papers to explainers, due to the sheer number of moving parts the subject remains a black box for many. While some pieces of the puzzle are given one can not see the full picture without the missing ones. Hence the focus of this work is to shed light onto the topic with a straightforward and clean approach based on examples and answering many whys along the way so that more individuals can appreciate the state of the art technology, its innovators and ultimately the beauty of math. Paper's contribution is a simplistic exposition with a sufficient and gradually increasing level of complexity, necessary to understand zk-SNARK without any prerequisite knowledge of the subject, cryptography or advanced math. The primary goal is not only to explain how it works but why it works and how it came to be this way.
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:12:48 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
is that the thing that requires a 'trusted'(LMAO!!) 'setup'?
On 6/19/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
is that the thing that requires a 'trusted'(LMAO!!) 'setup'?
No, that would be the Fiats, and shitcoins like Facebook Calibra Libra, staunch anti-privacy junk like BTC and BSV, thousand other pointless, broken, central, surveilled, censored, feature laden, shitcoins and tokens. No, go read the actual docs on what the [now independant] zk parameter generation projects are doing, and what they model. Find with any search, or follow the Sapling links. https://z.cash/upgrade/sapling/ Distributed, private, uncensorable, scale... if any of those are not true for a coin, it's going to have serious problems. Nothing wrong with true cypherpunk cryptocurrencies [1], or with metals and chickens. All three have their issues and strengths too. Use whatever you want. Or be a basic bitch and keep on exclusively using Fiat, shitcoins, and worshipping Govt and this dude's feet... https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/06/19/145254/he-says-he-invented-bitcoin-... [1] There might even be a few worthy candidates out there by now... so go find and post them here.
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:56:27 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/19/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
is that the thing that requires a 'trusted'(LMAO!!) 'setup'?
No,
of course z.cash required a 'trusted' 'setup' LMAO!!!!!!!! what kind of dishonest retard would bother to provide a patently false answer to a rhetorical question...
that would be the Fiats, and shitcoins like Facebook Calibra Libra, staunch anti-privacy junk like BTC
bitcoin is getting some privacy upgrades. but if you say bitcoin is junk, it surely must be, hi hi hi. Your fuckinly retarded lies about zcash surely established your reputation as Honest and Impartial Observer. oh and yes putting bitcoin and joo fukerberg's latest scam in the same sentence and at the same level as bitcoin is really classy.
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:56:27 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/19/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
is that the thing that requires a 'trusted'(LMAO!!) 'setup'?
No,
of course z.cash required a 'trusted' 'setup' LMAO!!!!!!!! what kind of dishonest retard would bother to provide a patently false answer to a rhetorical question...
that would be the Fiats, and shitcoins like Facebook Calibra Libra, staunch anti-privacy junk like BTC
bitcoin is getting some privacy upgrades. but if you say bitcoin is junk, it surely must be, hi hi hi. Your fuckinly retarded lies about zcash surely established your reputation as Honest and Impartial Observer. oh and yes putting bitcoin and joo fukerberg's latest scam in the same sentence and at the same level as bitcoin is really classy.
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:56:27 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/19/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
is that the thing that requires a 'trusted'(LMAO!!) 'setup'?
No,
some more FACTS on zcash https://www.zcashcommunity.com/2017/07/31/zcash-separating-fact-fiction/ quote:"There is no evidence whatsoever that the first Trusted setup was compromised." sure sure. Absence of evidence is evidence of abscence!! Right? Right? quote:"at the time of writing this 23% of all network transactions are shielded. " in other words 77% of transactions ARE PUBLIC. quote:"Zcash founders decided to allocate 10% of the 21 million Zcash that will ever be issued to go to a set of addresses dubbed the “Founders Reward”" sp 10% of all monetary base has been TAXED. quote:"For an average transaction size of 2000 bytes in a Private " that is to say, private transactions are 10 times bigger than bitcoin transactions. So what would happen if zcash was actually USED and quote: "Fiction: Zcash is not widely accepted on Darknet markets and somehow that’s a bad thing Opinion: This last one always leaves me saying WTF? Why would you want to promote the use of your favorite crypto-currency on dark marketplaces? The only reasons I can think of are self-centeredness, greed, and short-sightedness (or a combination of all those). " oh look! the piece of shit who wrote that article is making it quite clear that he's against freedom. quote:"Zcash doesn’t need darknet markets to be successful and I hope that Zcash doesn’t ever get widely used on them." priceless quote:"Illegal use is often an unfortunate by-product of any advance in technology." so what were you saying grarpamp?
On 6/20/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
some more FACTS on zcash
Seems you got your meds straight enough to post at least some tangible instead of your typical angsty asshole troll self ;)
https://www.zcashcommunity.com/2017/07/31/zcash-separating-fact-fiction/
Yeah, 2017 was Sprout, trying to quote old tech news is lame. You need to evaluate in light of new late 2018 Sapling MPC and both optional and mandatory turnstyling. And in general, in light of the future independant ZK MPC paramgen project for use in all sorts of global tech, not just from and in one particular coin. Being fair, note also the massive security advisory Zcash dropped a few months ago. And the analysis papers on Monero too. In early development days, no [privacy] coin or tech is safe from exploit. So go put all eyes on them all and make them all better, and throw away the shit ones.
quote:"There is no evidence whatsoever that the first Trusted setup was compromised."
sure sure. Absence of evidence is evidence of abscence!! Right? Right?
Sometimes objective, subjective analysis, statistical assurance is enough for the world than proof. The world relies on AES, SHA, ed25519, etc. Even if the world "trusts" those algos, there's still only 2^N security odds in them. 2^N is not proof. Proof is hard. Even ignoring adversaries. Choose your own N. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_verification
quote:"at the time of writing this 23% of all network transactions are shielded. "
in other words 77% of transactions ARE PUBLIC.
That's a result of user choice, and default setting, to make them public. And it's a two year old article using old data. However Zcash project, and all other privacy coins... really should commit private z-addr as default to their source codes so that users have to actively choose to use public t-addrs. And the private t-addr option should probably go away, especially given work on viewkeys.
quote:"Zcash founders decided to allocate 10% of the 21 million Zcash that will ever be issued to go to a set of addresses dubbed the “Founders Reward”"
sp 10% of all monetary base has been TAXED.
Earlies including Satoshi are sitting on easily well over 20% of BTC. There's no real difference there, and none have foreswear, burn, or techically cannot spend it. Nor are those percents much relavant in the end... any attempted game hurts their own coin value and coin network, and they'll eventually get bought up by millions of others at which point over time they become moot. TAXED is physically stolen by force from you without your consent. No, you CHOSE to buy into BTC Zcash whatever, at some particular time since genesis, KNOWING there were already such allocations. So that argument and any like it are false. Go start a faircoin (wtf ever, they are hardly not), join a commune, or become a Statist and forcibly redistribute to yourself. There are even now coins and sick games you can choose that will actually steal, burn, or inflate away your holdings from under you too if you have masochistic love for that.
quote:"For an average transaction size of 2000 bytes in a Private "
that is to say, private transactions are 10 times bigger than bitcoin transactions. So what would happen if zcash was actually USED and
What would happen if ANY coin that relies on storing the whole fucking chain forever is actually USED. Get real. Go evolve the tech beyond that ancient form and mentality of UTXO validation. There is tx size in flight and processing, that's one limit... bandwidth. If you can't handle or design that out, yes you've got severe problems. But instead of looking stupid quoting 2k as the final state of things, run the estimates, if it's too big, go research how to make real tx and privacy smaller, and leave 2k behind. Then there is limitation of all the pointless storage, and growth of it. That can be designed out by using a UTXO state db instead, thus no need to maintaining all the tx blocks that went into it. There are projects producing the tech to do state db's. Go look them up. And if all else fails, there will be strong private "gold" wealth wallet coins, feeding via a second mode, or DEX, into daily tx coins. Only stupid say coin "X" is great. Free your mind.
quote: "Fiction: Zcash is not widely accepted on Darknet markets and somehow that’s a bad thing
Opinion: This last one always leaves me saying WTF? Why would you want to promote the use of your favorite crypto-currency on dark marketplaces? The only reasons I can think of are self-centeredness, greed, and short-sightedness (or a combination of all those). "
oh look! the piece of shit who wrote that article is making it quite clear that he's against freedom.
Just like music, movie, software pirates stubbornly refusing to get off clearnet or use new tools... darknet markets are similarly affected by foolish refusal to change. All may have their reasons, but are not so often based on objective analysis of if something is truly better choice or not. Nor does their masses of drug addled on forums exactly help analysis either. And more susceptible to shill armies selling snakeoil to them.
quote:"Zcash doesn’t need darknet markets to be successful and I hope that Zcash doesn’t ever get widely used on them."
priceless
quote:"Illegal use is often an unfortunate by-product of any advance in technology."
If it's not good enough to be used in black, darknet, prediction markets, it's not good enough for global mainstream use either. Now excuse me while I go dissolve some more coke off these $20's.
quote:"For an average transaction size of 2000 bytes in a Private " that is to say, private transactions are 10 times bigger than average bitcoin transactions. So what would happen if zcash was actually USED as much as bitcoin is used? How big would zcash ledger become? But I guess that big ledgers are not a problem since you can put a few servers in 2 or 3 NSA-GCHQ datacenters! Ok put the servers in FOUR datacenters to make sure that nothing bad can happen. As a side note monero has the same problem and so do confidential transaction in bitcoin. There seems to be no free lunch and privacy requires bigger transaction which in turn hurts decentralization.
participants (2)
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grarpamp -
Punk