Re: Threat Model: Parents
Arguably a category of child which would benefit from a concerned adults supervision. I would never assert an alcoholic should choose a bar as their favourite hangout - nor would I claim they have no right to choose to do so. However, I would assert (to the alcoholic) they would be better off going to said bar with a helpful supervisor/friend.
Their specific situation is that they're about 15, autistic and bipolar,
2015-06-03 0:42 GMT+09:00 Softy <softservant@gmail.com>:
Arguably a category of child which would benefit from a concerned adults supervision.
I would never assert an alcoholic should choose a bar as their favourite hangout - nor would I claim they have no right to choose to do so. However, I would assert (to the alcoholic) they would be better off going to said bar with a helpful supervisor/friend.
I would argue the alcoholic is best assigned a personal police officer and psychologist, to keep him in check and positive. In fact; everyone needs a personal police officer and psychologist.
Their specific situation is that they're about 15, autistic and bipolar,
Especially this guy. We would all be so much better of if we'd be kept in check and positive. If we had someone watching us all the time, we could do anything we like without fear. If we had someone tell us what to think, we wouldn't think anything badly. But.. unless we can somehow automate the personal police officer and psychologist we will never have enough people to do it :(
On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 01:34:07AM +0900, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:
2015-06-03 0:42 GMT+09:00 Softy <softservant@gmail.com>:
Arguably a category of child which would benefit from a concerned adults supervision.
I would never assert an alcoholic should choose a bar as their favourite hangout - nor would I claim they have no right to choose to do so. However, I would assert (to the alcoholic) they would be better off going to said bar with a helpful supervisor/friend.
I would argue the alcoholic is best assigned a personal police officer and psychologist, to keep him in check and positive. In fact; everyone needs a personal police officer and psychologist.
Dude, I am pretty sure your view is not popular in east europe and/or russia. "a personal police" for each alcoholic likely means almost all of police are alcoholics too (in case they are natives). -- We don't need no education We don't need no thought control
I think looking for a "personal police" is missing the point. When I was a child, and "misbehaved" ... [[[ do we even agree children do?? If not ... well, happily I'm too old to ever have to live around your children ]]] ... when he would scold me, often he would say "I don't like being the policeman" His point was until I (as a growing child) developed my own sense of what is right/wrong, he would happily provide that guidance for me -- which, as a parent, is his obligation/prerogative/joy. As is being done - exploding this Child Supervision thread into the perennial "Nanny State" argument does have one merit. If an individual fails to adhere to guidelines of their Society, they are punished. That is what Society is for. The Nanny State advocates would like to see members of Society be given greater guidance by the State so as to avoid those excursions of acceptability. The detractors believe everyone has the same intuited/divinely inspired ability to adhere to Society's laws on their own. Both miss the others point, as has been done in this thread. That is, all people up to a certain age must have guidance and after a certain age; must have the chance not to have that guidance. With an appropriate period of transition. Quick question for those claiming "let the child alone, she'll be happier on the Internet without muddling parents." ... do you have dependents? you taught to drive? by giving them the car keys and then going on vacation? and now they have perfect driving habits? Which they miraculously learned on their own: no doubt YouTubing Mario Andretti, and reading that one wikihow page.
On 06/02/2015 02:41 PM, Softy wrote:
If an individual fails to adhere to guidelines of their Society, they are punished.
I want to beg the point here. One of the guidelines of American society was implicit, institutionalized racism, and many people were punished in myriad ways for trying to change that. Some ended up dead. When I was a chld back in elementary school (vamping on Jim Morrison vamping on Lord Buckley), knee bends were a common gym exercise. Now they're known to cause knee damage and no longer practiced as part of a current school gym fitness program. Being able to swim meant you were a witch. Should I continue listing examples? I'd rather rant. Society punishes people alright, but that doesn't make that society's judgment correct, moral or ethical. I'd say the same for punishment of children for not performing to their parent's expectations assuming the child was not in any physical danger, and parents in American society often think the most harmless things are dangerous... Because they simply 'don't get out very much'. Wear a beard in my town full of clean-shaven upwardly mobile yuppies and dinks and they shy away from you like you're Charlie Manson incarnate. But simply go bald-faced, and no one thinks your strange at all until they find out after-the-fact you're going out to fern bars picking up women in your Izod Dockers and rollie costume for the purpose of raping them. Most industrial society parents are literally vicious morons and they should NOT be allowed to punish children for not conforming. Native Americans didn't, and in my child-rearing years I didn't, and you know, my kids turned out just fine thanks.
Juan wrote:
Softy <softservant@gmail.com> wrote:
If an individual fails to adhere to guidelines of their Society, they are punished. That is what Society is for.
This is...too much.
Yeahhh, that's not what society is actually for, per se. Even if you take a harsh reading of Foucault and realize that we've moved from a disciplinary society to a control society (and then to a panoptic society), you're quite cynical if Punishment is all you think that society is structured to do. That, or you feel extra put-upon for some reason. Everything okay, Softy?
Please help me calibrate my irony detector. On 06/02/2015 10:34 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote: <SNIP>
I would argue the alcoholic is best assigned a personal police officer and psychologist, to keep him in check and positive. In fact; everyone needs a personal police officer and psychologist.
This was irony. Yes? <SNIP> On 06/02/2015 03:41 PM, Softy wrote: <SNIP>
If an individual fails to adhere to guidelines of their Society, they are punished. That is what Society is for.
This was not irony. Yes? <SNIP>
2015-06-03 11:23 GMT+09:00 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net>:
I would argue the alcoholic is best assigned a personal police officer and psychologist, to keep him in check and positive. In fact; everyone needs a personal police officer and psychologist.
This was irony. Yes?
Irony, but not an unrealistic future. Note that you /are/ a child. There's always others responsible for you, they will take their responsibility. And, you are also a liability to others. In a competitive enough world you are a liability when you are not productive. I believe inflation is part effective because it demands greater productivity.
On 06/02/2015 03:41 PM, Softy wrote:
If an individual fails to adhere to guidelines of their Society, they are punished. That is what Society is for.
This was not irony. Yes?
I believe this was just foolish. Society is a common madness, not something that is for a reason. All it takes is evolutionary feasibility - which I would say Society is for; continuing it's own existence, regardless of anything.
On 06/03/2015 10:43 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:
2015-06-03 11:23 GMT+09:00 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net>:
I would argue the alcoholic is best assigned a personal police officer and psychologist, to keep him in check and positive. In fact; everyone needs a personal police officer and psychologist.
This was irony. Yes?
Irony, but not an unrealistic future. Note that you /are/ a child. There's always others responsible for you, they will take their responsibility. And, you are also a liability to others. In a competitive enough world you are a liability when you are not productive. I believe inflation is part effective because it demands greater productivity.
Yes, as you said to Juan: "Talking about childhood brings out my inner anarchist." And I'm not very hopeful about the future. I don't know what else to say, so I'll quote from "Dead Flag Blues" by Godspeed You! Black Emperor: | the car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel | and the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides | and a dark wind blows | | the government is corrupt | and we're on so many drugs | with the radio on and the curtains drawn | | we're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine | and the machine is bleeding to death | | the sun has fallen down | and the billboards are all leering | and the flags are all dead at the top of their poles <SNIP>
On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 08:23:31PM -0600, Mirimir wrote:
Please help me calibrate my irony detector.
This was irony. Yes?
<SNIP>
This was not irony. Yes?
This might be related to Poe's law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law --- Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. ---
On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 17:42:27 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 08:23:31PM -0600, Mirimir wrote:
Please help me calibrate my irony detector.
This was irony. Yes?
<SNIP>
This was not irony. Yes?
This might be related to Poe's law:
The vast majority of human society operates on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
--- Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. ---
Juan Cole's Law, alongside salad of Godwin's Nazi orange j'accuse. At 03:25 PM 6/6/2015, you wrote:
Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
The vast majority of human society operates on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
Juan's Law.
-=rsw
On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 09:52:33 +1000 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On 6/7/15, Riad S. Wahby <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
The vast majority of human society operates on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
Juan's Law.
-=rsw
:D
Yep. I get caught in a recursive, self-parody loop as well =P
On 06/06/2015 08:47 PM, Juan wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 09:52:33 +1000 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On 6/7/15, Riad S. Wahby <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
The vast majority of human society operates on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
Juan's Law.
-=rsw
:D
Yep. I get caught in a recursive, self-parody loop as well =P
How about this? All self-conscious entities operate on the principle of unintentional self-parody. ;)
Dnia sobota, 6 czerwca 2015 21:00:35 Mirimir pisze:
On 06/06/2015 08:47 PM, Juan wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 09:52:33 +1000
Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On 6/7/15, Riad S. Wahby <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
The vast majority of human society operates on the
principle of unintentional self-parody.
Juan's Law.
-=rsw
:D
Yep. I get caught in a recursive, self-parody loop as well =P
How about this?
All self-conscious entities operate on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
All self-parodying entities operate on the principle of unintentional self- consciousness?.. -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On 06/08/2015 08:41 AM, rysiek wrote:
Dnia sobota, 6 czerwca 2015 21:00:35 Mirimir pisze:
On 06/06/2015 08:47 PM, Juan wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 09:52:33 +1000
Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On 6/7/15, Riad S. Wahby <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
The vast majority of human society operates on the
principle of unintentional self-parody.
Juan's Law.
-=rsw
:D
Yep. I get caught in a recursive, self-parody loop as well =P
How about this?
All self-conscious entities operate on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
All self-parodying entities operate on the principle of unintentional self-consciousness?..
:)
On Sat, Jun 06, 2015 at 03:25:54PM -0400, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
The vast majority of human society operates on the principle of unintentional self-parody.
Juan's Law.
Looks like Juan's law explains significant amount of sheeple behaviour (possibly after minor patching of the law), especially voting. Not sure how novel Juan's law is, since establishments have exploited something very close to it since ancient times.
On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 01:34:07 +0900 Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl> wrote:
I would argue the alcoholic is best assigned a personal police officer and psychologist, to keep him in check and positive. In fact; everyone needs a personal police officer and psychologist.
Speaking of trolling... Or was that a joke Lodewijk?
On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 04:00:05 +0900 Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl> wrote:
2015-06-03 4:57 GMT+09:00 Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com>:
Or was that a joke Lodewijk?
Talking about childhood brings out my inner anarchist. I'm on your side for this one Juan. Get the molotovs.
I did enjoy your reply to Softy. Thanks ;)
participants (11)
-
Georgi Guninski -
Griffin Boyce -
John Young -
Juan -
Lodewijk andré de la porte -
Mirimir -
Razer -
Riad S. Wahby -
rysiek -
Softy -
Zenaan Harkness