Folks who want their cypher unsullied have plenty of many and varied lists, but should have their full pure cyphered punk (whatever that means to them) without the "stress" of non cypher which appears evidently stressful. As was said last year, my personal intent is to respect the intenet of the founders of this forum/list. Lists are neither complicated, difficult nor with singificant overhead, to run. And it appears evident there is a smallish but loud number of emotionally pained individuals who want to not be adulterated by calls to action, discussion of politics, defense of fundamental and essential principles to any community we can imagine, or anything outside their personal expectations for what the cypherpunks list "should be". Far be it for us to cause any undue stress to the poor darlings. ----------------- So, once again, there is a fair whack of offlist, and in the past on list, support for an similar but alternative email mailing list. Of course there has also been both on and offlist calls to not split the list. The possible 'new list' would be "just like cypherpunks, only a little less elitist about what can be discussed", including and especially tech, cypher, politico, anarcho, actiono, liberto and any other old o, topics :) In fact, this alternative list is not elitist at all - if you wanna talk it, bloody well talk it, the list shall forever be uncesored, just expect no mercy on the "constructive" or "vehement" feedback side :) If "you can't HANDLE the response!" then stick to cyphussy-whipped. One could even consider this new list an "anarchist" list. The only (should be self evident) proviso is that your speech be lawful in the jurisdiction of the listserv operator, for (what ought be self evidently) obvious reasons. ----------------- And now, the final call! :: Are there any loud "no, please don't split the list" calls which can make a convincing argument as to why a few cotton wool footed, excessively schooled, overly emotional Westerners with delicate communication sensibilities and inadequate personal technical ability, ought not have their little CIA dominated pow wow room under the current name, and a new anarchist list under a slightly distinguished and eminently distinguishable alternative name? As a little reminder, alternative alternative lists, providing abundent opportunity for free form but self moderated or actually censored crypto techno discussion are, for example: nettime metzdowd securityfocus many universities djb lists eff tor-talk, tor-project etc many newsgroups and a whole internet more, just a search away Finally, before those tenderfoots jump in with "yes please", perhaps read this again: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/cpunks-crypto.htm including its many choice quotes including: - "the political has won out over the technical". - this one reminds of the total overthrow and take over of Tor Inc that's just gone down in front of us all, along with the public, professional and very personal destruction of Jacob Applebaum: "What has been shown in the discussion is that the technical wizards are not nearly as competent at the messy political" - "petty squabblling and exchange of slurs has replaced rational discourse. Thus the convo has become politicized with as much stupidity and ignorance as sharp thinking and mutual respect" Do bring your best, and best regards to all, Zenaan
new list(s) was already suggested these days. please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers. people who want to subscribe, will subscribe. isn't this obvious? i suppose you can name them whatever you want. On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 03:12:01PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Folks who want their cypher unsullied have plenty of many and varied lists, but should have their full pure cyphered punk (whatever that means to them) without the "stress" of non cypher which appears evidently stressful.
As was said last year, my personal intent is to respect the intenet of the founders of this forum/list.
Lists are neither complicated, difficult nor with singificant overhead, to run.
And it appears evident there is a smallish but loud number of emotionally pained individuals who want to not be adulterated by calls to action, discussion of politics, defense of fundamental and essential principles to any community we can imagine, or anything outside their personal expectations for what the cypherpunks list "should be".
Far be it for us to cause any undue stress to the poor darlings.
----------------- So, once again, there is a fair whack of offlist, and in the past on list, support for an similar but alternative email mailing list.
Of course there has also been both on and offlist calls to not split the list.
The possible 'new list' would be "just like cypherpunks, only a little less elitist about what can be discussed", including and especially tech, cypher, politico, anarcho, actiono, liberto and any other old o, topics :)
In fact, this alternative list is not elitist at all - if you wanna talk it, bloody well talk it, the list shall forever be uncesored, just expect no mercy on the "constructive" or "vehement" feedback side :)
If "you can't HANDLE the response!" then stick to cyphussy-whipped.
One could even consider this new list an "anarchist" list.
The only (should be self evident) proviso is that your speech be lawful in the jurisdiction of the listserv operator, for (what ought be self evidently) obvious reasons. -----------------
And now, the final call! ::
Are there any loud "no, please don't split the list" calls which can make a convincing argument as to why a few cotton wool footed, excessively schooled, overly emotional Westerners with delicate communication sensibilities and inadequate personal technical ability, ought not have their little CIA dominated pow wow room under the current name, and a new anarchist list under a slightly distinguished and eminently distinguishable alternative name?
As a little reminder, alternative alternative lists, providing abundent opportunity for free form but self moderated or actually censored crypto techno discussion are, for example:
nettime metzdowd securityfocus many universities djb lists eff tor-talk, tor-project etc many newsgroups and a whole internet more, just a search away
Finally, before those tenderfoots jump in with "yes please", perhaps read this again: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/cpunks-crypto.htm
including its many choice quotes including:
- "the political has won out over the technical".
- this one reminds of the total overthrow and take over of Tor Inc that's just gone down in front of us all, along with the public, professional and very personal destruction of Jacob Applebaum:
"What has been shown in the discussion is that the technical wizards are not nearly as competent at the messy political"
- "petty squabblling and exchange of slurs has replaced rational discourse. Thus the convo has become politicized with as much stupidity and ignorance as sharp thinking and mutual respect"
Do bring your best, and best regards to all, Zenaan
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:47:01 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
new list(s) was already suggested these days.
please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers.
Actually, the people who should make a new list are the people who don't agree with basic libertarian tenets (you Georgi for instance) and who want to discuss useless an irrelevant technical matters (you Georgi) People who are not interested in (crypto) anarchy, and are interested in stupid hardware and software bugs and how to 'exploit' them should go to the so called 'cryptography' mailing list. Here's the address again, in case you can't find it. http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ""Cryptography" is a low-noise moderated mailing list devoted to cryptographic technology and its political impact." translation : "Cryptography" is a content-free, censored cesspool. Now, go there and enjoy yourself Georgi, and all the rest.
people who want to subscribe, will subscribe. isn't this obvious?
i suppose you can name them whatever you want.
On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 03:12:01PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Folks who want their cypher unsullied have plenty of many and varied lists, but should have their full pure cyphered punk (whatever that means to them) without the "stress" of non cypher which appears evidently stressful.
As was said last year, my personal intent is to respect the intenet of the founders of this forum/list.
Lists are neither complicated, difficult nor with singificant overhead, to run.
And it appears evident there is a smallish but loud number of emotionally pained individuals who want to not be adulterated by calls to action, discussion of politics, defense of fundamental and essential principles to any community we can imagine, or anything outside their personal expectations for what the cypherpunks list "should be".
Far be it for us to cause any undue stress to the poor darlings.
----------------- So, once again, there is a fair whack of offlist, and in the past on list, support for an similar but alternative email mailing list.
Of course there has also been both on and offlist calls to not split the list.
The possible 'new list' would be "just like cypherpunks, only a little less elitist about what can be discussed", including and especially tech, cypher, politico, anarcho, actiono, liberto and any other old o, topics :)
In fact, this alternative list is not elitist at all - if you wanna talk it, bloody well talk it, the list shall forever be uncesored, just expect no mercy on the "constructive" or "vehement" feedback side :)
If "you can't HANDLE the response!" then stick to cyphussy-whipped.
One could even consider this new list an "anarchist" list.
The only (should be self evident) proviso is that your speech be lawful in the jurisdiction of the listserv operator, for (what ought be self evidently) obvious reasons. -----------------
And now, the final call! ::
Are there any loud "no, please don't split the list" calls which can make a convincing argument as to why a few cotton wool footed, excessively schooled, overly emotional Westerners with delicate communication sensibilities and inadequate personal technical ability, ought not have their little CIA dominated pow wow room under the current name, and a new anarchist list under a slightly distinguished and eminently distinguishable alternative name?
As a little reminder, alternative alternative lists, providing abundent opportunity for free form but self moderated or actually censored crypto techno discussion are, for example:
nettime metzdowd securityfocus many universities djb lists eff tor-talk, tor-project etc many newsgroups and a whole internet more, just a search away
Finally, before those tenderfoots jump in with "yes please", perhaps read this again: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/cpunks-crypto.htm
including its many choice quotes including:
- "the political has won out over the technical".
- this one reminds of the total overthrow and take over of Tor Inc that's just gone down in front of us all, along with the public, professional and very personal destruction of Jacob Applebaum:
"What has been shown in the discussion is that the technical wizards are not nearly as competent at the messy political"
- "petty squabblling and exchange of slurs has replaced rational discourse. Thus the convo has become politicized with as much stupidity and ignorance as sharp thinking and mutual respect"
Do bring your best, and best regards to all, Zenaan
On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 03:01:07AM -0300, juan wrote: Is 03 AM late evening or early morning?
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:47:01 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
new list(s) was already suggested these days.
please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers.
Actually, the people who should make a new list are the people who don't agree with basic libertarian tenets (you Georgi for instance) and who want to discuss useless an irrelevant technical matters (you Georgi)
People who are not interested in (crypto) anarchy, and are interested in stupid hardware and software bugs and how to 'exploit' them should go to the so called 'cryptography' mailing list.
WTF? As far as I can tell cypherpunks is not list about anarchy, especially utopian anarchy. Is there reference for the contrary?
Here's the address again, in case you can't find it.
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
""Cryptography" is a low-noise moderated mailing list devoted to cryptographic technology and its political impact."
translation :
"Cryptography" is a content-free, censored cesspool.
Now, go there and enjoy yourself Georgi, and all the rest.
Is this an attempt alleged utopian anarchists to hijack the current list?
On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 09:10:38AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 03:01:07AM -0300, juan wrote:
Is 03 AM late evening or early morning?
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:47:01 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
new list(s) was already suggested these days.
please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers.
Actually, the people who should make a new list are the people who don't agree with basic libertarian tenets (you Georgi for instance) and who want to discuss useless an irrelevant technical matters (you Georgi)
People who are not interested in (crypto) anarchy, and are interested in stupid hardware and software bugs and how to 'exploit' them should go to the so called 'cryptography' mailing list.
WTF? As far as I can tell cypherpunks is not list about anarchy, especially utopian anarchy. Is there reference for the contrary?
If you would, reply to the thread "Political Cypherpunks Trumps Apolitical Cryptography" (ahh, reading it first...)
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 09:10:38 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
WTF? As far as I can tell cypherpunks is not list about anarchy, especially utopian anarchy. Is there reference for the contrary?
So you are a fucking ignoramus, and so you must be right? I suggest you look up : "Argumentum ad Ignorantiam" It's your fallacy of the day.
Here's the address again, in case you can't find it.
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
""Cryptography" is a low-noise moderated mailing list devoted to cryptographic technology and its political impact."
translation :
"Cryptography" is a content-free, censored cesspool.
Now, go there and enjoy yourself Georgi, and all the rest.
Is this an attempt alleged utopian anarchists to hijack the current list?
What the fuck are you talking about.
On 09/04/2016 11:01 PM, juan wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:47:01 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
new list(s) was already suggested these days.
please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers.
Actually, the people who should make a new list are the people who don't agree with basic libertarian tenets (you Georgi for instance) and who want to discuss useless an irrelevant technical matters (you Georgi)
"PUNK" = Alternate, Counterculture. Libertarianism IS NOT counterculture. It's Feudal Republicanism. I think Zen's response to my query about "Whose going to regulate 'proportionate punishment'?" on the 'foundations for sanity' thread:
That would be written words only - guidence to the 'jury of peers', and would therefore also provide a hint to the defendant "well so and so only got X years for murder, I should get similar, and certainly not 2X".
...says it all. Beg & Pray. IOW, whose ever in power, whoever has the most marauders and guns, makes the rules. There's nothing "PUNK" about that. That's status quo. Rr [further spew from 'the troll' redacted for brevity]
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:02:54 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
"PUNK" = Alternate, Counterculture. Libertarianism IS NOT counterculture. It's Feudal Republicanism.
That's your fully ignorant, actually dishonest, characterization of libertarianism. And what is your understanding of counterculture anyway? Oh yes, to worship Master Marx and his underlings - biggest totalitarians in history. And to have an 'anarchist' police state where anything you don't like is banned or requires "papieren".
I think Zen's response to my query about "Whose going to regulate 'proportionate punishment'?" on the 'foundations for sanity' thread:
That would be written words only - guidence to the 'jury of peers', and would therefore also provide a hint to the defendant "well so and so only got X years for murder, I should get similar, and certainly not 2X".
...says it all. Beg & Pray. IOW, whose ever in power, whoever has the most marauders and guns, makes the rules.
There's nothing "PUNK" about that. That's status quo.
Keep 'refuting' your own dishonest mischaracterizations. There's a name for that kind of flawed arguments...
Rr
[further spew from 'the troll' redacted for brevity]
On 09/05/2016 01:54 PM, juan wrote:
And what is your understanding of counterculture anyway? Oh yes, to worship Master Marx and his underlings - biggest totalitarians in history.
Groucho Marx and OFC John Lennon :>
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:02:54 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
"PUNK" = Alternate, Counterculture. Libertarianism IS NOT counterculture. It's Feudal Republicanism.
[Rest of crap redacted] Rr
On Sep 5, 2016 2:47 AM, "Georgi Guninski" <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
new list(s) was already suggested these days.
please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers.
people who want to subscribe, will subscribe. isn't this obvious?
i suppose you can name them whatever you want.
I suggest to begin a list named "ha ha ha & bla bla bla", talking exclusively about how awesome Russia and Putin are, how evil Hillary is, how the USA are disgusting and, obviously, making lots and lots of drama. No serious political discussions, of course, only drama and dozens of "Russia Insider" and "The Duran" links, mentioning that Hillary will begin the Apocalypse, because she has the number "666" tattooed in her head. Obviously, Putin and the Russian X-Men will avoid this abominable world danger making an alliance with Magneto, aka. Donald Trump, who always was a cruel villain, but wants to save the world of this horrible menace. Another bad soap opera with bad actors. Bah! :( I always thought I was a glamorous "drama queen", but after everything I already saw here, I am not even a mere "drama princess"! :(
On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 10:16:05AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
I suggest to begin a list named "ha ha ha & bla bla bla", talking exclusively about how awesome Russia and Putin are, how evil Hillary is, how the USA are disgusting and, obviously, making lots and lots of drama.
No serious political discussions, of course, only drama and dozens of "Russia Insider" and "The Duran" links, mentioning that Hillary will begin the Apocalypse, because she has the number "666" tattooed in her head.
Obviously, Putin and the Russian X-Men will avoid this abominable world danger making an alliance with Magneto, aka. Donald Trump, who always was a cruel villain, but wants to save the world of this horrible menace.
Another bad soap opera with bad actors. Bah! :(
I always thought I was a glamorous "drama queen", but after everything I already saw here, I am not even a mere "drama princess"! :(
This email made my day :) Thanks, Tom
On September 5, 2016 9:16:05 AM EDT, Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 5, 2016 2:47 AM, "Georgi Guninski" <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
new list(s) was already suggested these days.
please go and make a few. there are even free lists providers.
people who want to subscribe, will subscribe. isn't this obvious?
i suppose you can name them whatever you want.
I suggest to begin a list named "ha ha ha & bla bla bla", talking exclusively about how awesome Russia and Putin are, how evil Hillary is, how the USA are disgusting and, obviously, making lots and lots of drama.
No serious political discussions, of course, only drama and dozens of "Russia Insider" and "The Duran" links, mentioning that Hillary will begin the Apocalypse, because she has the number "666" tattooed in her head.
Obviously, Putin and the Russian X-Men will avoid this abominable world danger making an alliance with Magneto, aka. Donald Trump, who always was a
lfmao John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
COINTELPRO Troll op follows (sow dissension, divide, destroy): Zenaan Harkness:
Folks who want their cypher unsullied have plenty of many and varied lists, but should have their full pure cyphered punk (whatever that means to them) without the "stress" of non cypher which appears evidently stressful.
As was said last year, my personal intent is to respect the intenet of the founders of this forum/list.
Lists are neither complicated, difficult nor with singificant overhead, to run.
And it appears evident there is a smallish but loud number of emotionally pained individuals who want to not be adulterated by calls to action, discussion of politics, defense of fundamental and essential principles to any community we can imagine, or anything outside their personal expectations for what the cypherpunks list "should be".
Far be it for us to cause any undue stress to the poor darlings.
----------------- So, once again, there is a fair whack of offlist, and in the past on list, support for an similar but alternative email mailing list.
Of course there has also been both on and offlist calls to not split the list.
The possible 'new list' would be "just like cypherpunks, only a little less elitist about what can be discussed", including and especially tech, cypher, politico, anarcho, actiono, liberto and any other old o, topics :)
In fact, this alternative list is not elitist at all - if you wanna talk it, bloody well talk it, the list shall forever be uncesored, just expect no mercy on the "constructive" or "vehement" feedback side :)
If "you can't HANDLE the response!" then stick to cyphussy-whipped.
One could even consider this new list an "anarchist" list.
The only (should be self evident) proviso is that your speech be lawful in the jurisdiction of the listserv operator, for (what ought be self evidently) obvious reasons. -----------------
And now, the final call! ::
Are there any loud "no, please don't split the list" calls which can make a convincing argument as to why a few cotton wool footed, excessively schooled, overly emotional Westerners with delicate communication sensibilities and inadequate personal technical ability, ought not have their little CIA dominated pow wow room under the current name, and a new anarchist list under a slightly distinguished and eminently distinguishable alternative name?
As a little reminder, alternative alternative lists, providing abundent opportunity for free form but self moderated or actually censored crypto techno discussion are, for example:
nettime metzdowd securityfocus many universities djb lists eff tor-talk, tor-project etc many newsgroups and a whole internet more, just a search away
Finally, before those tenderfoots jump in with "yes please", perhaps read this again: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/cpunks-crypto.htm
including its many choice quotes including:
- "the political has won out over the technical".
- this one reminds of the total overthrow and take over of Tor Inc that's just gone down in front of us all, along with the public, professional and very personal destruction of Jacob Applebaum:
"What has been shown in the discussion is that the technical wizards are not nearly as competent at the messy political"
- "petty squabblling and exchange of slurs has replaced rational discourse. Thus the convo has become politicized with as much stupidity and ignorance as sharp thinking and mutual respect"
Do bring your best, and best regards to all, Zenaan
I would strongly advise not to split the list, nor get impatient. These types of rants always occur at inflection points on the political landscape of the world-at-large. Moving discussion off the list risks making the whole tribe become irrelevant, because in the end: it is that "world-at-large" that establishes "reality". \0x
participants (8)
-
Cecilia Tanaka -
Georgi Guninski -
John -
juan -
Razer -
Tom -
Xer0Dynamite -
Zenaan Harkness