On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 5:35 PM, rysiek wrote:

Dnia sobota, 12 lipca 2014 18:15:53 nicolasbourbaki@riseup.net pisze:

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The Pirate Party and Cypherpunks party are populous movements I couldn't agree more, and the sad state of Pirate Party here in Poland: Same shit is going on in Germany and Sweden, AFAIK. Pirate Party movement is in deep crisis in Europe.

Forgetting the actual failures in execution, you're simply not going to gain much public acceptance (votes) among the masses, or earn influence by them, by calling yourselves the 'pirate' or 'punks' party. Well, except by luck and whim. At least call yourselves something relatively benign on the books so that you can then choose to carry whatever banner suits each audience. Disruption, when you have insufficient force outright, implies subterfuge and sleight of hand. Get deeper.

When one thinks about it, it makes sense. On some level the Greens and PP have similar core values: protecting the commons -- be it environmental, or digital. They cooperate closely on several issues in the EU already, and yet go to elections separately.

Sure, but the greens are fairly anti-evidence, whereas I see a lot more focus on evidence-based policy in the pirate parties. If you asked the greens to adopt evidence-based policy, they'd implode because they'd have to accept nuclear and GE, and abandon pushing stupid things like homeopathy to state medical boards. There is a growing rebellion within the green movement, I think; I've spoken to senior greens recently who are preparing to start pushing evidence based green policy, but it'll be a longer journey; they have to warm up their voting base to the idea or they simply die. Most of their voters are die-hard organics-and-ear-candles greenpeace-donating hippies, the genuine environmentalists who understand the basics of..well, reality..are in the minority. OTOH the pirate parties (who, let's remember, are technically part of the EU Greens meta-party), in a debate, could pull out statistics and scientific studies backing their positions; it made it difficult to discard their arguments or to take the other guy's position without seeming like a bought politician (of course, the bought politicians did anyway). And yea; major parties are now taking the PP line. Even Neelie Kroes, an EU Commissioner, is coming out and delivering speeches on how we criminalise normal activity by making "piracy" illegal. So they may share a lot, but I don't think the two are compatible yet. Soon, I hope; I'd like to resume calling myself a green without being regarded as someone who supports falsified research, romanticises subsistence farming, and rejects every possible solution that features words with more than two syllables. Long live the pirates! ;) Cathal On 14/07/14 06:57, rysiek wrote:

Dnia niedziela, 13 lipca 2014 23:18:29 grarpamp pisze:

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On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 5:35 PM, rysiek wrote:

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Dnia sobota, 12 lipca 2014 18:15:53 nicolasbourbaki@riseup.net pisze:

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The Pirate Party and Cypherpunks party are populous movements

I couldn't agree more, and the sad state of Pirate Party here in Poland: Same shit is going on in Germany and Sweden, AFAIK. Pirate Party movement is in deep crisis in Europe.

Forgetting the actual failures in execution, you're simply not going to gain much public acceptance (votes) among the masses, or earn influence by them, by calling yourselves the 'pirate' or 'punks' party. Well, except by luck and whim. At least call yourselves something relatively benign on the books so that you can then choose to carry whatever banner suits each audience.

I disagree. The Pirate Party got a lot of media attention thanks to the name, and got a strong support in the beginning. The current crisis is not due to the name, but due to the fact the PP abandoned quite a lot of their original core issues (filesharing, data protection, privacy, etc).

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Disruption, when you have insufficient force outright, implies subterfuge and sleight of hand. Get deeper.

But the PP created a hell of a disruption. Some big parties today have integrated some elements of the original PP platform into their programmes, which is a success regardless of what happens with PP now.

However, I'm a big supporter of the idea of creating a single, strong Commons Party, assimilating the Greens and the Pirate Parties across Europe (and further) into a single force.

When one thinks about it, it makes sense. On some level the Greens and PP have similar core values: protecting the commons -- be it environmental, or digital. They cooperate closely on several issues in the EU already, and yet go to elections separately.

-- T: @onetruecathal, @IndieBBDNA P: +353876363185 W: http://indiebiotech.com