They're talking about offering bounties on anyone who touches Satoshi Nakamoto. Somewhere, Jim Bell is laughing… Cheers, RAH
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Bob Hettinga <hettinga@gmail.com> wrote:
They're talking about offering bounties on anyone who touches Satoshi Nakamoto. Somewhere, Jim Bell is laughing...
Odd phrasing. Seems to imply Jim Bell is dead. I dreamed I saw Jim Bell last night, alive as you and me. -- Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
From: Steve Furlong <demonfighter@gmail.com> To: Bob Hettinga <hettinga@gmail.com>
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Bob Hettinga <hettinga@gmail.com>wrote:
They're talking about offering bounties on anyone who touches Satoshi Nakamoto. Somewhere, Jim Bell is laughing… Odd phrasing. Seems to imply Jim Bell is dead. I dreamed I saw Jim Bell last night, alive as you and me. Any reports of my demise are at least slightly in error. But, I have been laughing, a bit, about the Mt. Gox situation. Seems to me that given that since somebody made off ("Made-off"..."Madoff"; I sure wish I had been the first one to invent that joke) with 6% of the existing (?) supply of Bitcoin, it ought to be awfully difficult for the thief to remain entirely unknown, at least given enough time. After all, it is well understood that Bitcoin is merely pseudonynous, not entirely anonymous. Presuming the thief is eventually identified, I wouldn't be surprised if he (or she?) could be "convinced" to return the Bitcoin or what's left of it. I would be in favor (of course) of withholding a portion of the recovered BTC to fund what amounts to an insurance fund to cover Bitcoin exchanges, but also Silk Road 2.0 and other systems. Jim Bell
So, Jim (et al.), you say "thief" w.r.t. Bitcoin. What odds do you give that the theft was a state-level op to derail the Bitcoin economy, i.e., that making money was not the object, rather, let's imagine, that this op hedges the vulnerability of fiat currency to disintermediation. --dan
I tell all y’all what. Since this Bitcoin thing has really blown up, say the last year or so, the shit-satin’ grin on my face just keeps gettin’ bigger and bigger. Cheers, RAH
I am in agreement with Dan re: it being a gov't op vs 'thief'. That was my first thought when the story broke, and nothing I've seen or heard since has changed my opinion. -Shelley On Mar 6, 2014 5:33 PM, dan@geer.org <dan@geer.org> wrote: So, Jim (et al.), you say "thief" w.r.t. Bitcoin. What odds do you give that the theft was a state-level op to derail the Bitcoin economy, i.e., that making money was not the object, rather, let's imagine, that this op hedges the vulnerability of fiat currency to disintermediation. --dan
If I understand your conclusions, I agree: It would be far too dangerous to steal 6% of the world's extant Bitcoins if you actually intended to use, i.e. spend, them; but for a state-level actor, a very plausible goal would be to discredit in the public's minds Bitcoins, and that could be done merely by taking and keeping (or destroying) them. I, of course, believe that ultimately Bitcoins (or at least, some kind of electronic currency) will be the death of all governments. That would certainly motivate all competent governments to do anything in their power to mess up the operation of any Bitcoin storage and transmission systems. This is one reason that I think the idiot operators of Mt Gox must not be allowed to get "bankruptcy protection" due to the failure of their operations. As a practical matter, they don't _need_ financial protection, for no other reason that virtually all of the BTC is already gone. The kind of 'protection' they really need is from the bullet, the knife, the bomb, the poison, etc. But, they should stay around long enough to help determine who took the Bitcoins, to find out who did what with them. Jim Bell ________________________________ From: "shelley@misanthropia.info" <shelley@misanthropia.info> To: Cc: cpunks <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>; Cryptography List <cryptography@metzdowd.com> Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Bounties I am in agreement with Dan re: it being a gov't op vs 'thief'. That was my first thought when the story broke, and nothing I've seen or heard since has changed my opinion. -Shelley ________________________________ On Mar 6, 2014 5:33 PM, dan@geer.org <dan@geer.org> wrote: So, Jim (et al.), you say "thief" w.r.t. Bitcoin. What odds do you give that the theft was a state-level op to derail the Bitcoin economy, i.e., that making money was not the object, rather, let's imagine, that this op hedges the vulnerability of fiat currency to disintermediation. --dan
I accidentally cc'd the "other" Crypto list when replying to this email, and got this hilarious response: "Posting of your message titled "Re: Bounties" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Please edit this post and resubmit it after changing it to not be top posted. Thanks"" *chortlesnort* Top posting, bitches! Suck it! (also, I guess they just missed Dan's TOP POST right before mine...) On Thu, Mar 6, 2014, at 04:41 PM, wrote:
So, Jim (et al.), you say "thief" w.r.t. Bitcoin.
What odds do you give that the theft was a state-level op to derail the Bitcoin economy, i.e., that making money was not the object, rather, let's imagine, that this op hedges the vulnerability of fiat currency to disintermediation.
--dan
Fucking hilarious!! what is the freaking fucking problem with top posting... jeese.. I appreciate someone who 'breaks' the rules and top posts and I do it quite deliberately to get the morons and idiots wound up... no fucking rules people get it??? gwen ps I wish "murdering thug" would show back up I always enjoyed his biting commentary. On 3/6/14 6:57 PM, shelley@misanthropia.info wrote:
I accidentally cc'd the "other" Crypto list when replying to this email, and got this hilarious response:
"Posting of your message titled "Re: Bounties"
has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request:
"Please edit this post and resubmit it after changing it to not be top posted. Thanks""
*chortlesnort*
Top posting, bitches! Suck it!
(also, I guess they just missed Dan's TOP POST right before mine...)
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014, at 04:41 PM, wrote:
So, Jim (et al.), you say "thief" w.r.t. Bitcoin.
What odds do you give that the theft was a state-level op to derail the Bitcoin economy, i.e., that making money was not the object, rather, let's imagine, that this op hedges the vulnerability of fiat currency to disintermediation.
--dan
-- Tentacle #99 ecc public key curve p25519(pcp 0.15) 1l0$WoM5C8z=yeZG7?$]f^Uu8.g>4rf#t^6mfW9(rr910 Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.’ https://github.com/TLINDEN/pcp.git to get pcp(curve25519 cli) https://github.com/stef/pbp.git (curve 25519 python based cli)
also sprach gwen hastings <gwen@cypherpunks.to> [2014-03-07 07:08 +0100]:
what is the freaking fucking problem with top posting... jeese.. I appreciate someone who 'breaks' the rules and top posts and I do it quite deliberately to get the morons and idiots wound up... no fucking rules people get it???
It's been part of "netiquette", probably than from before you were born. *plonk* -- martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/ government announcement - the government announced today that it is changing its mascot to a condom because it more clearly reflects the government's political stance. a condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks and finally, gives you a sense of security while you're being screwed! spamtraps: madduck.bogus@madduck.net
top posting profoundly better than bottom where were you all when i was getting slammed on the list here for it and numerous other panzie ass fucked up analities? yes jim that is why i DONT get the state actor part i dont think the premise is correct that if u pull 6% out bitcoin dead > can you prove that mathematically or something somewheres hows ? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:15 AM, martin f krafft <madduck@madduck.net> wrote:
also sprach gwen hastings <gwen@cypherpunks.to> [2014-03-07 07:08 +0100]:
what is the freaking fucking problem with top posting... jeese.. I appreciate someone who 'breaks' the rules and top posts and I do it quite deliberately to get the morons and idiots wound up... no fucking rules people get it???
It's been part of "netiquette", probably than from before you were born.
*plonk*
-- martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/
government announcement - the government announced today that it is changing its mascot to a condom because it more clearly reflects the government's political stance. a condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks and finally, gives you a sense of security while you're being screwed!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus@madduck.net
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
Dnia piątek, 7 marca 2014 08:41:21 Cari Machet pisze:
top posting profoundly better than bottom
where were you all when i was getting slammed on the list here for it and numerous other panzie ass fucked up analities?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? /I know, I know, old news, everybody knows it, but still apparently needs reminding/ -- Pozdr rysiek
also sprach rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> [2014-03-07 10:21 +0100]:
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
/I know, I know, old news, everybody knows it, but still apparently needs reminding/
Careful, you are confusing the post-facebook generation who think that all problems they encounter are new, and they are the ones — personally — who have come up with the best solution. ;) We should revive usenet without groups.google.com interface and let natural selection take care of the idiots… -- martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/ "i started taking an online a.d.d. test, linked from someone's blog. i never finished it; i got distracted, and clicked on random other shiny things" -- andres salomon spamtraps: madduck.bogus@madduck.net
Careful, you are confusing the post-facebook generation who think
On Mar 7, 2014 5:22 AM, martin f krafft <madduck@madduck.net> wrote: that all problems they encounter are new [...] Your smug misassumptions are amusing, especially when you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Neither Gwen nor I are of the "post-facebook" generation. I've been online (meaning using the Internet, which pre-dates the Web by quite a few years- in case you were unaware) since the mid-eighties, during the time of monochrome screens and when telling someone to finger you wouldn't garner snickers from mental midgets like you. You completely missed the point of Gwen's post, in which he clearly talks about breaking 'the rules' to stir up idiots such as yourself, and to which you still felt the need to make a whiny reply- to make yourself feel, what...clever? To give yourself some sense of faux cypherpunks cred? You're not impressing anyone, you just made yourself look a fucking idiot with no reading comprehension. Shut the fuck up and keep your stupid ASSumptions to yourself.
Dnia piątek, 7 marca 2014 06:01:14 shelley@misanthropia.info pisze:
On Mar 7, 2014 5:22 AM, martin f krafft <madduck@madduck.net> wrote:
Careful, you are confusing the post-facebook generation who think
that all problems they encounter are new [...]
Your smug misassumptions are amusing, especially when you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Neither Gwen nor I are of the "post-facebook" generation. I've been online (meaning using the Internet, which pre-dates the Web by quite a few years- in case you were unaware) since the mid-eighties, during the time of monochrome screens and when telling someone to finger you wouldn't garner snickers from mental midgets like you.
You completely missed the point of Gwen's post, in which he clearly talks about breaking 'the rules' to stir up idiots such as yourself, and to which you still felt the need to make a whiny reply- to make yourself feel, what...clever? To give yourself some sense of faux cypherpunks cred? You're not impressing anyone, you just made yourself look a fucking idiot with no reading comprehension.
Shut the fuck up and keep your stupid ASSumptions to yourself.
I do appreciate the bottom-posting in this e-mail, though. <3 -- Pozdr rysiek
On Fri, Mar 07, 2014 at 01:23:48PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
also sprach rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> [2014-03-07 10:21 +0100]:
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
/I know, I know, old news, everybody knows it, but still apparently needs reminding/
Careful, you are confusing the post-facebook generation who think that all problems they encounter are new, and they are the ones — personally — who have come up with the best solution. ;)
We should revive usenet without groups.google.com interface and let natural selection take care of the idiots…
┈┈┈┈┈┈▕▔╲ ┈┈┈┈┈┈┈▏▕▂▂▂ ▂▂▂▂▂▂╱┈▕▂▂▂▏ ▉▉▉▉▉┈┈┈▕▂▂▂▏ like++ ▉▉▉▉▉┈┈┈▕▂▂▂▏ ▔▔▔▔▔▔╲▂▂▂▂I Let me suggest that usenet over IPv7 (ipv6 with integrated per-packet cryptocurrency micropayments) would actually be useful, and instead of *plonk* I can take the idiots money^H^H^H^H^Htokens *then* ignore them and send double your money^H^H^H^H^Htokens back for good posts like this. Excuse me a moment, I have to explain 'satire' to those FINCEN guys knocking at my door again. Every time this happens I have to sit down and have another John Stewart marathon.
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: [something that had a stupid ASCII art thumb in it to start] Please do us a favor and don't post horseshit like that thumb on this list again. -- Shawn K. Quinn skquinn@rushpost.com
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:42 PM, jim bell <jamesdbell9@yahoo.com> wrote:
I dreamed I saw Jim Bell last night, alive as you and me.
it ought to be awfully difficult for the thief to remain entirely unknown, at least given enough time. After all, it is well understood that Bitcoin is merely
That's the (modified) start of the Joe Hill song, in case you didn't recognize it. pseudonynous, not entirely anonymous. Watch for an anonymizing exchange being set up. Even if the proud new possessor of a bazzillion bitcoins has to lose half of the value in laundering them sufficiently, that's still a nice pile of change. As for Dan Geer's question about state actors, I of course would never suggest my government would do anything illegal or even questionable. -- Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
It's believed that Satoshi holds a total of what - 8-10% of all BTC mined to date? The deflationary benefit of destroying Satoshi's wallets might be enough motivation for some to do evil. Whether this is the real Satoshi or not, I expect he's taking on a pretty unique set of worries. On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Bob Hettinga <hettinga@gmail.com> wrote:
They're talking about offering bounties on anyone who touches Satoshi Nakamoto. Somewhere, Jim Bell is laughing...
Cheers,
RAH
Unless, of course, he already had given it away to someone else. On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Reed Black <reed@unsafeword.org> wrote:
It's believed that Satoshi holds a total of what - 8-10% of all BTC mined to date? The deflationary benefit of destroying Satoshi's wallets might be enough motivation for some to do evil.
Whether this is the real Satoshi or not, I expect he's taking on a pretty unique set of worries.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Bob Hettinga <hettinga@gmail.com> wrote:
They're talking about offering bounties on anyone who touches Satoshi Nakamoto. Somewhere, Jim Bell is laughing...
Cheers,
RAH
-- Kelly John Rose Edmonton, AB Phone: +1 647 638-4104 Twitter: @kjrose Skype: kjrose.pr Gtalk: iam@kjro.se MSN: msn@kjro.se Document contents are confidential between original recipients and sender.
participants (14)
-
Bob Hettinga -
Cari Machet -
dan＠geer.org -
gwen hastings -
jim bell -
Kelly John Rose -
martin f krafft -
Reed Black -
Robert Hettinga
-
rysiek -
Shawn K. Quinn -
shelley＠misanthropia.info -
Steve Furlong -
Troy Benjegerdes