----- Forwarded message from ianG <iang@iang.org> ----- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:05:46 +0300 From: ianG <iang@iang.org> To: cryptography@metzdowd.com Subject: Re: [Cryptography] PRISM-Proofing and PRISM-Hardening User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 On 17/09/13 23:52 PM, John Kemp wrote:

On Sep 17, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com

...

I am sure there are other ways to increase the work factor.

I think that "increasing the work factor" would often result in switching the kind of "work" performed to that which is easier than breaking secrets directly.

Yes, that's the logical consequence & approach to managing risks. Mitigate the attack, to push attention to easier and less costly attacks, and then start working on those. There is a mindset in cryptography circles that we eliminate entirely the attacks we can, and ignore the rest. This is unfortunately not how the real world works. Most of risk management outside cryptography is about reducing risks not eliminating them, and managing the interplay between those reduced risks. Most unfortunate, because it leads cryptographers to strange recommendations.

That may be good. Or it may not.

If other attacks are more costly to defender and easyish for the attacker, then perhaps it is bad. But it isn't really a common approach in our security world to leave open the easiest attack, as the best alternative. Granted, this approach is used elsewhere (in warfare for example, minefields and wire will be laid to channel the attack). If we can push an attacker from mass passive surveillance to targetted direct attacks, that is a huge win. The former scales, the latter does not.

"PRISM-Hardening" seems like a blunt instrument, or at least one which may only be considered worthwhile in a particular context (technical protection) and which ignores the wider context (in which such technical protections alone are insufficient against this particular adversary).

If I understand it correctly, PRISM is or has become the byword for the NSA's vacuuming of all traffic for mass passive surveillance. In which case, this is the first attack of all, and the most damaging, because it is undetectable, connects you to all your contacts, and stores all your open documents. From the position of a systems provider, mass surveillance is possibly the most important attack to mitigate. This is because: we know it is done to everyone, and therefore it is done to our users, and it informs every other attack. For all the other targetted and active attacks, we have far less certainty about the targetting (user) and the vulnerability (platform, etc). And they are very costly, by several orders of magnitude more than mass surveillance. iang _______________________________________________ The cryptography mailing list cryptography@metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://ativel.com http://postbiota.org AC894EC5: 38A5 5F46 A4FF 59B8 336B 47EE F46E 3489 AC89 4EC5