Folks, After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th. If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list. -=rsw
On 8/20/16, Riad S. Wahby <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node
rsw +1 ftw.
it's quitting time for me.
Please publish an archive of all the posts you still have. xz, gz, tarball, mbox, maildir... whatever. from, to, cc, date, subject, msgid, in-reply-to, references. Or more simply and completely... raw. Then gpg signed. Thanks.
grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
Please publish an archive of all the posts you still have. xz, gz, tarball, mbox, maildir... whatever.
Done! This tarball goes back as far as 1999, though I'm not certain it's a complete archive. Note that prior to the LNE node, the list was 100% unfiltered, so what's below includes a decent amount of spam. All told, it's about 95k messages in Maildir format. https://cpunks.org/cpunk/cypherpunks.tar.bz2 https://cpunks.org/cpunk/cypherpunks.tar.bz2.asc Signed with 68E8B84A0ED9DDDAF60B250987C118774CBBC936, https://keybase.io/kwantam/key.asc (This archive also reveals that I only started a node in 2004, meaning that it's been 12 years, not 15. My mistake.) -=rsw
On 8/20/16, Riad S. Wahby <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
Done!
The tarball looks good so far, thanks! 90k isn't much. A lot of spam, but that's easy enough to clean up on this end. Please publish another signed tarball after the alias is shut down thereby covering the entire multiyear span through shutdown. You could put whatever README you want in the same dir as tmp,new,cur, all covered by the one sig.
grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
Please publish another signed tarball after the alias is shut down thereby covering the entire multiyear span through shutdown. You could put whatever README you want in the same dir as tmp,new,cur, all covered by the one sig.
I'll plan to do this. You're probably already aware of this, but just in case: the full tarball of all messages since mid-2013 (when we switched to mailman) is always available on the archive. -=rsw
At some point it should be revealed the three persons (entities, algos), not Angela, Buster and Caleb, who control cypherpunks in any form it has been, will take or transforms into. Once in there is no opt out, ever, for lurkers, drive-bys, pseudos, anons, unsubs, especially tatooed. And duns, dues and long-overdues will be paid whether willing or not. Bank accounts, bitcoins, e-gold, digi-cash, CCs, trusts, off-shores, will be siphoned if not already snatched. Nothing about this list is free nor free of contamination. It's not about crypto, never was, that's the bait. It's about cypher punks, two worlds with a space between. That space sucks in, no way to move on. At 01:12 PM 8/23/2016, you wrote:
grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
Please publish another signed tarball after the alias is shut down thereby covering the entire multiyear span through shutdown. You could put whatever README you want in the same dir as tmp,new,cur, all covered by the one sig.
I'll plan to do this.
You're probably already aware of this, but just in case: the full tarball of all messages since mid-2013 (when we switched to mailman) is always available on the archive.
-=rsw
On 2016-08-20 3:51 PM, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Folks,
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th.
If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list.
-=rsw
If no one is biting, we'd be willing to host the node and give a home to this list, although admittedly I'm more of a lurker than anything so I'm not entirely sure about how the consensus on the future of the list is going to play out. Regardless, I'd rather not see it die a slow death as the deadline approaches. Anyhow, I'll be the first to say: Thanks Riad, for your decade and two tenths of time and service. :) William
On 2016-08-20 11:16 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 10:07:11PM -0700, William wrote:
If no one is biting, we'd be willing to host the node and give a home to this list, although admittedly I'm more of a lurker than anything so I'm
Thanks. As the Emacs doctor says: Tell us about yourselves.
We (as in the Wubim Foundation) are a small Canadian non-profit founded to advocate for digital rights, freedom of speech and open access to academia. We've mostly been doing lobby work in Canada, helping publish a few books that aren't too mainstream or not fit for distribution in their home countries and running the XMPP servers adastra.re and cypherpunks.it at the moment. Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement so we were heavily influenced by them and they're kinda what inspired us to start the non-profit in the first place. Some of us still lurk on this list or participate behind pseudonyms admittedly. William
Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no life but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life. -------- Original Message -------- On Aug 21, 2016, 2:52 PM, William wrote: On 2016-08-20 11:16 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 10:07:11PM -0700, William wrote:
If no one is biting, we'd be willing to host the node and give a home to this list, although admittedly I'm more of a lurker than anything so I'm
Thanks. As the Emacs doctor says: Tell us about yourselves.
We (as in the Wubim Foundation) are a small Canadian non-profit founded to advocate for digital rights, freedom of speech and open access to academia. We've mostly been doing lobby work in Canada, helping publish a few books that aren't too mainstream or not fit for distribution in their home countries and running the XMPP servers adastra.re and cypherpunks.it at the moment. Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement so we were heavily influenced by them and they're kinda what inspired us to start the non-profit in the first place. Some of us still lurk on this list or participate behind pseudonyms admittedly. William
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:14:34 -0400 Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement
Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no life
Well, what about stupid motherfuckers like you just dying? Go to hell, asshole, asap.
but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life.
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 21, 2016, 2:52 PM, William wrote: On 2016-08-20 11:16 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 10:07:11PM -0700, William wrote:
If no one is biting, we'd be willing to host the node and give a home to this list, although admittedly I'm more of a lurker than anything so I'm
Thanks. As the Emacs doctor says: Tell us about yourselves.
We (as in the Wubim Foundation) are a small Canadian non-profit founded to advocate for digital rights, freedom of speech and open access to academia. We've mostly been doing lobby work in Canada, helping publish a few books that aren't too mainstream or not fit for distribution in their home countries and running the XMPP servers adastra.re and cypherpunks.it at the moment.
Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement so we were heavily influenced by them and they're kinda what inspired us to start the non-profit in the first place. Some of us still lurk on this list or participate behind pseudonyms admittedly.
William
Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote: life but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life. Wow! How much hate and bitterness in this little hairy heart, eh? :-/ All lives deserve respect, miserable or not. And the concept of "miserable life" is very relative. For me, a miserable life means feel pleasure in offend people, disrespecting their work, their contributions. If you want to collaborate and make a better cypherpunks list, please, do it. We, "old angry people", will be very thankful. :) If you want to help, can contact me in private. But, if you just want to complain like an old grumpy curmudgeon, please, be coherent and don't spend your miserable life here. Take care and eat chocolate! <3 Ceci -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person. -------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 2:49 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no life but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life.
Wow! How much hate and bitterness in this little hairy heart, eh? :-/ All lives deserve respect, miserable or not. And the concept of "miserable life" is very relative. For me, a miserable life means feel pleasure in offend people, disrespecting their work, their contributions. If you want to collaborate and make a better cypherpunks list, please, do it. We, "old angry people", will be very thankful. :) If you want to help, can contact me in private. But, if you just want to complain like an old grumpy curmudgeon, please, be coherent and don't spend your miserable life here. Take care and eat chocolate! <3 Ceci -- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:20:09 -0400 Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go.
Keep embarrasing yourself, shitbag.
Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
I hope they get you ASAP. J.
On 08/22/2016 04:20 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
Maybe you need to go? Cypherpunk has always been hostile to government, I think.
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 2:49 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no life but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life.
Wow! How much hate and bitterness in this little hairy heart, eh? :-/
All lives deserve respect, miserable or not. And the concept of "miserable life" is very relative. For me, a miserable life means feel pleasure in offend people, disrespecting their work, their contributions.
If you want to collaborate and make a better cypherpunks list, please, do it. We, "old angry people", will be very thankful. :)
If you want to help, can contact me in private. But, if you just want to complain like an old grumpy curmudgeon, please, be coherent and don't spend your miserable life here.
Take care and eat chocolate! <3
Ceci
-- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Come on now. Same five or six people posting stupid shit full of vitriol. At least in the month I've been on it. Ready to check out myself. I'd rather shut up & code. Bye all. FINGERPRINT: 97CD 1B42 2333 54EF 75C2 731C C71C BC5C 57D3 A771
On Aug 22, 2016, at 6:37 PM, Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/22/2016 04:20 PM, Ben 0wned wrote: I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
Maybe you need to go?
Cypherpunk has always been hostile to government, I think.
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 2:49 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no life but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life.
Wow! How much hate and bitterness in this little hairy heart, eh? :-/
All lives deserve respect, miserable or not. And the concept of "miserable life" is very relative. For me, a miserable life means feel pleasure in offend people, disrespecting their work, their contributions.
If you want to collaborate and make a better cypherpunks list, please, do it. We, "old angry people", will be very thankful. :)
If you want to help, can contact me in private. But, if you just want to complain like an old grumpy curmudgeon, please, be coherent and don't spend your miserable life here.
Take care and eat chocolate! <3
Ceci
-- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
It's a list about tecnology and security, but also about people, my dear. There are lots of places where people disappear when offending the wrong person. Sometimes, people disappear only because were in the wrong place, in the wrong time, and it's very unfair. That's the reason why this list is important. Here, you will learn more resources to become anonymous and survive in a world where privacy is dying. There are lots of political discussions, jokes, discussions, but there is space to teach and to learn too. You just need to ask for help or make searches in the archives. Give this list a chance and help it to be better. If you want more technical content, you can post it and it certainly will be good for a lot of people. Lots of different points of view can make a more accurate analisys of qualities and/or deffects in programs, ideas, whatever. :) Welcome to a list where you can talk about technology, security, privacy, governments, journalism, anarchy, justice, laws... We want a better world for all. :) -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On 08/22/2016 03:41 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Here, you will learn more resources to become anonymous and survive in a world where privacy is dying.
And not just in the cyber sense either. B/c no one lives in cyberspace if the authorities catch you in 'real space'. If you don't like the anti authoritarian posts Ben, Scifith, fine. Move along If you don't like them. Note I called them ANTI AUTHORITARIAN... One thing I've learned from decades on all sorts of lists is 'people who come along and try to change them... They're the authoritarians.' Move along. Rr
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com <mailto:gmojo02@protonmail.com>> wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
It's a list about tecnology and security, but also about people, my dear. There are lots of places where people disappear when offending the wrong person. Sometimes, people disappear only because were in the wrong place, in the wrong time, and it's very unfair.
That's the reason why this list is important. Here, you will learn more resources to become anonymous and survive in a world where privacy is dying. There are lots of political discussions, jokes, discussions, but there is space to teach and to learn too. You just need to ask for help or make searches in the archives.
Give this list a chance and help it to be better. If you want more technical content, you can post it and it certainly will be good for a lot of people. Lots of different points of view can make a more accurate analisys of qualities and/or deffects in programs, ideas, whatever. :)
Welcome to a list where you can talk about technology, security, privacy, governments, journalism, anarchy, justice, laws... We want a better world for all. :) -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 8/22/2016 5:20 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
Oh come on, really? Do you know /anything/ about the cypherpunk movement? Have you read the older archives of this list? Have you even read the /newer/ archives of this list? In most cases, governments (not just the USG) are diametrically opposed to /everything/ that cypherpunks stand for. The fact that you're surprised that this list is anti-gov is kind of laughable. Do a little more research. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXu4DtAAoJEAKK33RTsEsVru4P/R99/s8tzrCEfyOIJBgeMDDz m5uHPMzgenuqIiz0yXg1xiNZR7YktPi5rHkF8CMMjcCrdskzHs+pTWa7mFR/XKZf wRxo/dfEU4E4s7qtFU0rjRCOZihpGK4ICF3WsQd+tWWvtXdhH2IpOjiKrhKKR6RB kpVVdaLpTjjLaatn6/bSiIxytSVyV+MgEfyhW8G1c0mTco358bYttmp0i7/PYoB7 sebUEocslEQusOXV+zbNDV1TNEr7CcfIbDt2BgHp6mQeH1xQr3tAOMO1LUZ0LHw+ wYNvCM/XWfoENgiFZH7YX8VQeVcjcMGb1fUDIjW8NxCebwOhyr8J4iafTl7dVX9Y H4wsL3tuuH2joioS4Ca/q3E97Kke5Wigx2KA9UEpwPXYPKa6MFTkaKCI+u5X2Ch+ XzqQWUpeR3GmTGaP6JjBFKusEJYgwnFnFOny8eZlh2urtB1W6jd8iWBDuzTMZhZU 1tieZeaH3EVRIrv6DlGpyEckj++qAPfkAvb7Nz1jIO1HR6iDnDJnv70AhmTlNyyC D5duVtDU3NSAc6iXphwK9pMKChKFgYZUxh1b6fB5gt9fim661MVG45qKroPz2h/+ 0QvOm84WlnN7Ry0bYf7roJdfm8msK2cXHRJQGglCA+lUOdtsMf2jKc3geOlwMr7Q 9FtczNy7NQkvpMFVeCXu =XF4k -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 08/22/2016 04:47 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
On 8/22/2016 5:20 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
Oh come on, really? Do you know /anything/ about the cypherpunk movement? Have you read the older archives of this list? Have you even read the /newer/ archives of this list?
In most cases, governments (not just the USG) are diametrically opposed to /everything/ that cypherpunks stand for. The fact that you're surprised that this list is anti-gov is kind of laughable.
Do a little more research.
Maybe here: http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/22/2016 06:20 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
This is a list about the intersection of networked computing technology and political power, and per history "anti-gov shit" is on topic here. The Internet is an enabler of social, economic, cultural and political change on a scale comparable to the printing press or broadcast A/V technology. Whether this change moves us in the direction of a global Orwellian State or enables scalable, resilient Direct Democracies will be determined by the outcome of a three way war for control of the medium: State, Corporate and Populist interests are the major combatants, and arming the Populists against State and Corporate actors has been the historical mission of Cypherpunks. Where else will you find people who can describe and discuss: Mathematical Munitions The Crypto Wars Online Anonymity Digital Anarchy Where I live people get propositioned or blackmailed to work as snitches, blacklisted from employment, put on bounty lists offering police officers rewards for /any/ trumped up criminal conviction, and occasionally just get murdered on orders from people positioned to obstruct criminal investigations. Where our lords and masters fail is in their inability to understand the concept "when you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose." At present I am reasonably OK with the content of the list: More technology news & discussion, especially where and as this may enable collaborative work, education, and promotion of useful tools is always a Good Thing. But what makes this Cypherpunks is recognition and discussion of the political context where network security takes place, which in large part defines the assets defended, threat models, and practical goals of network security. If you want to /mortally/ offend the wrong person and live to tell the tale, ask us how. We have the technology. ;o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXu4VgAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqp+sH/1QatHonhgOWJ27tlkAryRot vd0SVIEliPhmHW0F7WYC8OaSoI1xDBaOngyIkKw6yThdSXjZtuOTQth/23P3rfla VS1E9/x1fLEBARPXeeHot05a3lNyRFU4p4TGITEuisCmbRlajXcB1vwvWrRVgoHj A53aheDr7pYVziyUv3DjiRovNKA+amecuT0CWXWLgb+lswC9/IF0hQ992nK175dU pALdB8aFHgmeQ+nARsamnYnEKSpoFNTJhitnlxJITKN7Q65qhb7d32/TQWOTfaDU c0nxibEHOGzhomzI3GL0STpv2N+EgAcoPdj6nO/wxWcgakjeKH/OrHs2xpGaruA= =bML5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 08/22/2016 03:20 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
I joined this list because i thought it was about technology and security. Wow - this anti-govt shit has got to go. Where i live people disappear offending the wrong person.
Hey! Excellent idea. Whhy don't you disappear from here first so we don't need to wonder how come you didn't post crap anymore after the black helicopters come for you. Rr
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 2:49 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com <mailto:gmojo02@protonmail.com>> wrote:
> Good reason to just let this list die. Bunch of OLD angry people with no life but to sit around and bitch and moan about shit all day long. What a miserable life.
Wow! How much hate and bitterness in this little hairy heart, eh? :-/
All lives deserve respect, miserable or not. And the concept of "miserable life" is very relative. For me, a miserable life means feel pleasure in offend people, disrespecting their work, their contributions.
If you want to collaborate and make a better cypherpunks list, please, do it. We, "old angry people", will be very thankful. :)
If you want to help, can contact me in private. But, if you just want to complain like an old grumpy curmudgeon, please, be coherent and don't spend your miserable life here.
Take care and eat chocolate! <3
Ceci
-- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
accidental death, the better. Stop threatening me juan.g72@gmail.com -------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 3:43 PM, juan wrote: On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:14:34 -0400 Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement
this anti-govt shit has got to go.
Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner he has an accidental death, the better.
Ben, Keep your focus. Read it, please: http://www.activism.net/ cypherpunk/manifesto.html Do you understand the importance of discussing governments now? -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
< Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner i make you have accidental death, the better.
Stop threatening me juan.g72@gmail.com
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go. -------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 4:37 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: Ben, Keep your focus. Read it, please: http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html Do you understand the importance of discussing governments now? -- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote: < Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner i make you have accidental death, the better. Stop threatening me juan.g72@gmail.com
On Aug 22, 2016 11:34 PM, "Ben 0wned" <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking
breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go. Err... You are not the smartest apple in the basket, aren't you, little boy? :-/ Sayonara, baby. Take care and try to be happy in other lists, la la la... <3
Audios - be careful what you say.......you never no who is listening -; -------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 7:50 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: On Aug 22, 2016 11:34 PM, "Ben 0wned" <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
Err... You are not the smartest apple in the basket, aren't you, little boy? :-/ Sayonara, baby. Take care and try to be happy in other lists, la la la... <3
Oh, God! So much fear, brrr... I will never talk again! (+_+)* On Aug 23, 2016 12:14 AM, "Ben 0wned" <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
Audios - be careful what you say.......you never no who is listening -;
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 7:50 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Aug 22, 2016 11:34 PM, "Ben 0wned" <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking
breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
Err... You are not the smartest apple in the basket, aren't you, little boy? :-/
Sayonara, baby. Take care and try to be happy in other lists, la la la... <3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/23/2016 02:11 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Oh, God! So much fear, brrr... I will never talk again! (+_+)*
Yes, I just took a moment away from bossing the shredding party and burn barrel to peek in on the list and see if there were any indications of raids in progress. This computer will be the last thing to go in the slag pit before we light the magnesium ribbon. Hell of a birthday candle. We always feared that the State learn this list exists and find a way to infiltrate it, which is why we have contingency plans, but damn: Now that it's actually happened, it just seems unreal. Very unreal. See you in Dallas on X Day, and if you run across that Dobbs bastard, don't let him walk away alive. <3 Ⓐ <3 :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXu/kNAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq5N4H/0TEOS/0hqAuvkIeTcme2E/4 TLu8kyhOtbGsIrxhKodCrCvfVz6T0SCoZ4UvkyoEsXVSjDkufubex1p7j8hJtLn3 Qax1MVUXP4G7pkrrhN+lDieFdAfyBW1fx0sSkxoOBxDAKjKKF4gy2RMw9F7/tf/U 8lW+EAwNMIQ5J4zXCNFGhKO1UFe6Yf15qIDRVL6rRH9TDnwkr/rixCfJSuEESTIi BsEXTlkQ+7DI3tabOB0r93ECYT8rdCvmpkM9ZXl3X4uwSac989zUO5FIdlL/YGSV vxvSswifaOILRcTexMVc7FJ0yzFeH+/X94bQpesnzVHf+YQaeQx9wq/s+EG/x5U= =VXDE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Aug 23, 2016 4:27 AM, "Steve Kinney" <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
<3 Ⓐ <3
:o)
Steve, I love you very much, but my hero today is Riad. Crazy threads like this one, full of chaos and non sense, and he is still defending the most complete freedom of expression, without censorship or moderation! :D Already said it before, but thank you a lot for years of hard work and patience, my dear Riad. I learned to love sincerely Cypherpunks list and it never would be possible without you. :) I love you and your work! Thank you with all my heart! <3
Gonna have to stop posting cpunk archive links at twitter... On 08/22/2016 07:34 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
On 08/22/2016 08:54 PM, Razer wrote:
Gonna have to stop posting cpunk archive links at twitter...
But hey, it keeps Juan amused ;)
On 08/22/2016 07:34 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
LMFAO - what a prize he is -------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 8:19 PM, Mirimir wrote: On 08/22/2016 08:54 PM, Razer wrote:
Gonna have to stop posting cpunk archive links at twitter...
But hey, it keeps Juan amused ;)
On 08/22/2016 07:34 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
On 08/22/2016 08:34 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
lol
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 4:37 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Ben,
Keep your focus. Read it, please: http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html
Do you understand the importance of discussing governments now?
-- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
< Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner i make you have accidental death, the better.
Stop threatening me juan.g72@gmail.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/22/2016 10:34 PM, Ben 0wned wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
Do please rant some more. Every keystroke goes into your permanent record, which will endure for as long as technological civilization exists. Build a box for yourself and climb right in. Meanwhile, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo6UnKr6Bwg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXu75eAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqHxMIAKPSbhtfMIxw98bwJ9lIy9mQ Zq1GceYk+8PitfGzUk2YwrgLpdrEOs2xto8CwTwugSTVqv/1cPDIvxXi2oiBOy/E kJBysaGDHFZy+TUoptx9l1UVIOrb87f3PjucJKM74axIeUMAl8Ll5PVQBj+EwNay jVwW0AlfUWgVzOCtn162MkCnhuzddEQRYJwD+DTFygqpjR3OL5JzwETtUoICxhjr 31VfGnYyfQfgNMGzUV5P3Sj5SU2khydlcZoNyVO6FiUoaajwpDF+7Z+5WoEmXyhL X5xBINnvwJXsYHcTV/xU6jn6Hs0iKKMfLcBf2ObcaOS0b9j/SHi49WrXQXhWJfM= =/7vR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 4:37 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Ben,
Keep your focus. Read it, please: http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html
Do you understand the importance of discussing governments now?
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:34:22PM -0400, Ben 0wned wrote:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out.
This list has got to go.
WHAT a man! Defender of free speech, champion of liberty, slayer of tyranny. He must have had a hard life somewhere to get such strength, to be so inspiring. We ought be honoured and bow before thee, thy lordship!
On 08/22/2016 11:07 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote:
Was this sarcastic? If not, why did you even subscribe? To rat out people in case they might give away their identities? I didn't see you post anything for as long as i've been here either.
Note to self: Stop posting Cypherpunks links on twitter... All sorts of cyberdetritus results. Rr
5:49 AM, August 23, 2016, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com>:
i cant say i do. To me cyberpunks along with Tor shit is a fucking breeding ground for criminals and criminal activity. If you dont like your govt or laws where you live get the hell out. This list has got to go.
-------- Original Message -------- On Aug 22, 2016, 4:37 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
Ben,
Keep your focus. Read it, please: http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html
Do you understand the importance of discussing governments now?
-- " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Ben 0wned <gmojo02@protonmail.com> wrote:
< Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner i make you have accidental death, the better.
Stop threatening me juan.g72@gmail.com
-- You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 07:25:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
On 08/22/2016 11:07 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote:
Was this sarcastic? If not, why did you even subscribe? To rat out people in case they might give away their identities? I didn't see you post anything for as long as i've been here either.
Note to self: Stop posting Cypherpunks links on twitter... All sorts of cyberdetritus results.
The cypherpunks email list "are you sure" subscription email should publicise and warn at that point "a few key points" re the list and what to expect and what they are accepting re this list. Next step, agreeing here on those "few key points" :)
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:34 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 07:25:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
On 08/22/2016 11:07 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote:
Was this sarcastic? If not, why did you even subscribe? To rat out people in case they might give away their identities? I didn't see you post anything for as long as i've been here either.
Note to self: Stop posting Cypherpunks links on twitter... All sorts of cyberdetritus results.
The cypherpunks email list "are you sure" subscription email should publicise and warn at that point "a few key points" re the list and what to expect and what they are accepting re this list.
Next step, agreeing here on those "few key points" :)
"The list is not moderated, and the range of beliefs expressed here covers the full spectrum. If this bothers you and you are inclined to complain about it, you're gonna have a bad time."
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:44:35PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:34 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
Next step, agreeing here on those "few key points" :)
"The list is not moderated, and the range of beliefs expressed here covers the full spectrum. If this bothers you and you are inclined to complain about it, you're gonna have a bad time."
I'll Ack that one.
On 08/23/2016 04:17 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 07:25:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
On 08/22/2016 11:07 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote:
Was this sarcastic? If not, why did you even subscribe? To rat out people in case they might give away their identities? I didn't see you post anything for as long as i've been here either.
Note to self: Stop posting Cypherpunks links on twitter... All sorts of cyberdetritus results.
The cypherpunks email list "are you sure" subscription email should publicise and warn at that point "a few key points" re the list and what to expect and what they are accepting re this list.
Next step, agreeing here on those "few key points" :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Agreeing on points? I've seen this discussion before. It goes nowhere. Rr "Agreeing to disagree"
Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner he has an accidental death, the better.
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation. -- Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com>
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:39:43 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner he has an accidental death, the better.
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation.
Same thing for you scumbag - looking forward to your 'accidental' death And by the way, you as a militant americunt fascist are the exact opposite of 'civilized'. You are morally responsible for every single murder your government commits, so drop the 'civilized' act, you are kidding no-one.
On Aug 22, 2016 9:47 PM, "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized
list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation. Shawn, I respect you, but this list is always auto-regulating itself in an organic way, with its answers and comments, actions and reactions. The own members regulate the list, with no centralized moderation. I am still against the moderation in an anarchist, a cypherpunk list.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cecilia Tanaka" <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> Date: Aug 22, 2016 10:03 PM Subject: Re: moving on To: "cpunks" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org> On Aug 22, 2016 9:47 PM, "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized
list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation. Shawn, I respect you, but this list is always auto-regulating itself in an organic way, with its answers and comments, actions and reactions. The own members regulate the list, with no centralized moderation. I am still against the moderation in an anarchist, a cypherpunk list.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cecilia Tanaka" <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> Date: Aug 22, 2016 10:03 PM Subject: Re: moving on To: "cpunks" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
On Aug 22, 2016 9:47 PM, "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized
list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation.
Shawn, I respect you, but this list is always auto-regulating itself in an organic way, with its answers and comments, actions and reactions. The own members regulate the list, with no centralized moderation.
I am still against the moderation in an anarchist, a cypherpunk list.
Congrats Cecilia. That's ONE message against your friend quinn and for freedom. But you've written more than one message praising the little fascist quinn, so I'm not too impressed, sorry. And you fowarded two more messages in which you agree with the 'no moderation' policy for this list. That's good. But yesterday you clearly stated, again, that the if the tor mafia censors 'their' list, that's because it is "Their list, their rules." - So you clearly side with the totalitarians from the pentagon in that case. And so your defense of freedom of speech is rather limited and selective.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/22/2016 08:39 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner he has an accidental death, the better.
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation.
Create, publicize and defend a protocol for crowdsourcing politically motivated murder, classic Cypherpunk. Wish out loud for someone to step on a banana peel, the list needs moderated. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXu6FkAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqk+AH/2C5pu15arRBK84299vVtRD5 Q6eaSe/GDobLNoAKMI5Pu4BY2Y7654vnE7fzyJNnFrAJc2rJwig5fuxMDzuFt9BZ v9Xyt8sMoadPXIUc8mYKVTn5dkheZgA2V7HklgqhHVn2qbAvqoiNlygaylvZKmBU +tlPxv7QKHc5m3BqjrUV2uDMg/beOjWhcxauW7Ysbt3t2DkSKr5Jgvo7hyo6x/gH AI0ftXPGrrt3VbUQb3p1KZYHps1n3nNS+nXoghpo3m7xezTbAw6xdg4SrbTWaNpk oDXxMNnLJSInk5DaHZITW69OGPcPWm3RgSgycv1oXmYRKuFJSof+eAv8+VJgZu0= =xgjN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 09:05:40PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 08/22/2016 08:39 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner he has an accidental death, the better.
This (a thinly veiled threat) is completely unacceptable for a civilized list. This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation.
Create, publicize and defend a protocol for crowdsourcing politically motivated murder, classic Cypherpunk. Wish out loud for someone to step on a banana peel, the list needs moderated.
:D Except of course when the wishing out loud is my own wishing - oh I dunno, like may be wishing for moderation on a cypherpunks list... Perhaps we could moderate posts, but only those posts that request moderation? I'm kidding, I'm kidding..
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:39:43 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
Retarded troll of the year - still, the sooner he has an accidental death, the better.
This (a thinly veiled threat)
by the way illiterate, dihonest, shitbag, I didn't make any threat. I suggest you learn basic english. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/wish?s=t http://www.dictionary.com/browse/threat?s=t
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 05:14:34PM -0400, Ben 0wned wrote:
Most of us grew up during the cypherpunks movement
So... "I Ben have 'cred' round here... and even though I am anonymous, hiding who I am in meatspace, and have never contributed to making this list what I'd like it to be..."
Good reason to just let this list die.
"... I'm going to tell you all what to do and where to go..."
Bunch of OLD angry people
"... get on an ageist bandwagon ..."
with no life
"... accuse y'all of being hopeless folks with nothing to live for ..."
but to sit around
"... make accusations about how bloody lazy y'all are, even though I don't know any of youse ..."
and bitch and moan
"... characterise all the emails I bothered to look at in a really shitty way, because my opinion is all that matters ..."
about shit all day long.
"... and tell y'all that what you say, when you say it and how you say it, is shit, through and through ..."
What a miserable life.
"... And finally, you're all shit, did I mention you're shit? Cause you are! And I'm gonna imply my support for murder, deny you your right to express your anger, and get really pissed off when anyone blows a kettle. Because that's my right, and all of you are shit (did I mention you're all shit? Coz you are alright?!" Somehow, somewhere in your little brain, something next to that one brain cell that fired this morning after 3 cups of cofee, you decided that your email was somehow a good or constructive or otherwise useful email to send. Cecilia's observation that "you're not the brightest apple in the cart" seems rather apt... But hey, what would I know, cause we're all "shit" around here ...
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 03:51:23PM -0700, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Folks,
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th.
If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list.
Thanks for the fish. Some problems IMHO the new version of the list may face, in no particular order: 1. spam 2. ddos 3. legal threats
On Aug 22, 2016 2:45 AM, "Georgi Guninski" <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
Thanks for the fish.
Some problems IMHO the new version of the list may face, in no particular order:
1. spam 2. ddos 3. legal threats
Please, suggestions to avoid all the possible problems? <3 I really want to help Riad to make the transition smoothly. I don't know exactly what to do, but I recognize the importance of cypherpunks's history and want to help to preserve it and keep it working well. I don't know much (almost nothing, for being sincere) about technical area, but I promise to try hard and doing my best to honor Riad's work and to thank him for his efforts. I learned to love sincerely cypherpunks list and a lot of people here. I really love the idea of a place to be free to exchange ideas about everything without censorship and/or moderation. The cypherpunks list needs protection, care and respect. <3 And love, love, love... <3 Ceci
Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
Some problems IMHO the new version of the list may face, in no particular order:
1. spam
This is substantially mitigated by requiring messages to come from a subscriber or a known remailer exit. At least, that's all I do.
2. ddos 3. legal threats
Perhaps surprisingly, neither of these has been an issue for me. YMMV. -=rsw
Riad, Let me know if you need any technical help. I will be glad to help out. Also, if any donations for the server is required, perhaps (at least I would) we all would be able to help a bit. Regards, On 08/22/2016 02:18 PM, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
Some problems IMHO the new version of the list may face, in no particular order:
1. spam
This is substantially mitigated by requiring messages to come from a subscriber or a known remailer exit. At least, that's all I do.
2. ddos 3. legal threats
Perhaps surprisingly, neither of these has been an issue for me. YMMV.
-=rsw
-- Kind Regards, Ben Mezger https://benmezger.nl
Dear Riad, I only saw a couple of expressions of interest, and they seemed tentative. Maybe I missed a firmer one. I'd be happy to host the list (and, if desired, cpunks.org) on the pglaf.org server. No problem. I run the server, and it's on a dedicated connection in a San Diego colo. We'd need a couple of days for setup, testing & domain transfer. Including the ssl key (or longer if we decide to get a new key). - Greg On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 08:12:59PM -0300, Ben Mezger wrote:
Riad,
Let me know if you need any technical help. I will be glad to help out. Also, if any donations for the server is required, perhaps (at least I would) we all would be able to help a bit.
Regards,
On 08/22/2016 02:18 PM, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
Some problems IMHO the new version of the list may face, in no particular order:
1. spam
This is substantially mitigated by requiring messages to come from a subscriber or a known remailer exit. At least, that's all I do.
2. ddos 3. legal threats
Perhaps surprisingly, neither of these has been an issue for me. YMMV.
-=rsw
-- Kind Regards, Ben Mezger https://benmezger.nl
My lovely Riad, Greg made a generous and very nice offer. He already has a server and techical knowledge. Ben Mezger was very gentle offering help too. And I will be here, if you need me, guys! :) Thank you, Greg! Thank you, Ben! Thank you, Riad! You are awesome! <3 <3 <3 Ceci On Aug 22, 2016 8:54 PM, "Greg Newby" <gbnewby@pglaf.org> wrote:
Dear Riad,
I only saw a couple of expressions of interest, and they seemed
tentative. Maybe I missed a firmer one.
I'd be happy to host the list (and, if desired, cpunks.org) on the
pglaf.org server. No problem. I run the server, and it's on a dedicated connection in a San Diego colo. We'd need a couple of days for setup, testing & domain transfer. Including the ssl key (or longer if we decide to get a new key).
- Greg
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 08:12:59PM -0300, Ben Mezger wrote:
Riad,
Let me know if you need any technical help. I will be glad to help out. Also, if any donations for the server is required, perhaps (at least I would) we all would be able to help a bit.
Regards,
I'd be happy to host the list (and, if desired, cpunks.org) on the pglaf.org server. No problem. I run the server, and it's on a dedicated ...
For a second there I thouhgt "oh, the oglaf guy - he must be punk, that's probably a good fit" http://oglaf.com/
No biggie! We are already discussing how we will manage this transition. On 08/22/2016 10:12 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
My lovely Riad,
Greg made a generous and very nice offer. He already has a server and techical knowledge.
Ben Mezger was very gentle offering help too.
And I will be here, if you need me, guys! :)
Thank you, Greg! Thank you, Ben! Thank you, Riad! You are awesome! <3 <3 <3
Ceci
On Aug 22, 2016 8:54 PM, "Greg Newby" <gbnewby@pglaf.org <mailto:gbnewby@pglaf.org>> wrote:
Dear Riad,
I only saw a couple of expressions of interest, and they seemed
tentative. Maybe I missed a firmer one.
I'd be happy to host the list (and, if desired, cpunks.org
<http://cpunks.org>) on the pglaf.org <http://pglaf.org> server. No problem. I run the server, and it's on a dedicated connection in a San Diego colo. We'd need a couple of days for setup, testing & domain transfer. Including the ssl key (or longer if we decide to get a new key).
- Greg
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 08:12:59PM -0300, Ben Mezger wrote:
Riad,
Let me know if you need any technical help. I will be glad to help out. Also, if any donations for the server is required, perhaps (at least I would) we all would be able to help a bit.
Regards,
-- Kind Regards, Ben Mezger https://benmezger.nl
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 15:51:23 -0700 "Riad S. Wahby" <rsw@jfet.org> wrote:
Folks,
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th.
If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list.
I'd like to mention that Riad is probably the only admin I've met (in cyberspace) who actually defends free speech. For what they are worth (prolly nothing), here go my sincere thanks. J.
-=rsw
On Aug 23, 2016 7:47 AM, "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
This is exactly the reason why I think it's time to add moderation.
The day they add moderation/censorship to Cypherpunks is the day I unsubscribe. Yes, there are a handful of bloviating gas bags here who send endless emails but contribute nothing to the discussion. Gmail is fairly effective at blocking them. A more traditional/hardcore MUA would probably be even more effective. See, I don't necessarily want to or have to listen to everyone. But I want them to be able to talk without censorship/moderation - 'cuz who knows, maybe someone else finds their bloviation just fascinating.
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 03:51:23PM -0700, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Folks,
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th.
If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list.
So far I saw two offers to host the list after 30.Sep. IMHO two or more future lists won't hurt. Everyone can set a cypherpunks list (but won't get the past reputation of this one, if any).
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:07:51AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 03:51:23PM -0700, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Folks,
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th.
If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list.
So far I saw two offers to host the list after 30.Sep.
IMHO two or more future lists won't hurt. Everyone can set a cypherpunks list (but won't get the past reputation of this one, if any).
Is there a way to set up two or three email servers acting in concensus, basically mirrormiring each other, but not duplicating emails to the subscribers? That way there'd be less time pressure when one person wants to move on (Riad, you're a gentleman - thank you again.)
Better still would be a way for any number of list servers to co-exist without delivering multiple copies of mail. This would allow anyone to set up another server at will and add robustness to the system. Is this already in existence or a new idea, is it even a valid idea? On 23 August 2016 10:46:14 GMT+01:00, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:07:51AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 03:51:23PM -0700, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Folks,
After 15+ years running a cypherpunks node, it's quitting time for me. I plan to delete the mailman aliases on September 30th.
If anyone is interested in migrating the list to his or her machine before then, that would be great; let's discuss on-list.
So far I saw two offers to host the list after 30.Sep.
IMHO two or more future lists won't hurt. Everyone can set a cypherpunks list (but won't get the past reputation of this one, if any).
Is there a way to set up two or three email servers acting in concensus, basically mirrormiring each other, but not duplicating emails to the subscribers?
That way there'd be less time pressure when one person wants to move on (Riad, you're a gentleman - thank you again.)
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:52:36AM +0100, oshwm wrote:
Better still would be a way for any number of list servers to co-exist without delivering multiple copies of mail.
This would allow anyone to set up another server at will and add robustness to the system.
Is this already in existence or a new idea, is it even a valid idea?
Some "enterprisey" thing would work the mail server as a distributed fault tolerant event queueing framework. Dunno if this has been done with email "events" - if one knew what one was doing, this would probably be "just a plugin" for an existing event queueing framework. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/GEODE/HA+Client+Event+Queues http://atomix.io/atomix/ http://techblog.bozho.net/you-probably-dont-need-a-message-queue/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeroMQ
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 08:59:29PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:52:36AM +0100, oshwm wrote:
Better still would be a way for any number of list servers to co-exist without delivering multiple copies of mail.
This would allow anyone to set up another server at will and add robustness to the system.
Is this already in existence or a new idea, is it even a valid idea?
Some "enterprisey" thing would work the mail server as a distributed fault tolerant event queueing framework. Dunno if this has been done with email "events" - if one knew what one was doing, this would probably be "just a plugin" for an existing event queueing framework.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/GEODE/HA+Client+Event+Queues
http://techblog.bozho.net/you-probably-dont-need-a-message-queue/
- MX records can provide effective failover/ multipla MTA nodes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_Record - git style "unique email identifiers"? - different email pathways means different headers, thus In-reply-to: header - multiple "email server nodes" should be able to create the same (bit for bit) monthly/ yearly .tbz archives
Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
IMHO two or more future lists won't hurt. Everyone can set a cypherpunks list (but won't get the past reputation of this one, if any).
This is how cpunks was run from 1997 until mid-2005, when this became the only node. It was called the CDR (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer). It's a nice idea in theory, but (with all respect) the original implementation was far from pretty; kudos to Jim Choate and Igor Chudov for making it work at all :) In principle it should be pretty straightforward to make a "distributed mailman" setup work. The high-level idea is that all the servers accept messages, and all messages get forwarded to all servers. Then each server decides based on local policy which messages get delivered to users. For example, someone might decide they want to run a cpunks node that's moderated, and the important thing is that only their subscribers would see the moderated version of the list---subscribers to another node could get the full feed. The server-server forwarding stuff is like 10 lines of procmail, and requires no changes to mailman. The part that gets slightly hairy is implementing subscriber-only filtering [1]. In a naive setup, every node needs to know every other node's subscriber list. In addition to the (completely surmountable but sometimes annoying) issues with distributed synchronization, this is potentially a privacy concern for list subscribers. One step toward fixing this would be for lists to blind their whitelists. For example, a list could publish a set of SHA256 hashes of suscriber addresses, or maybe even something more clever, e.g., https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.8356 But this still isn't perfect. For example, when a subscriber sends an email, each server gets to see which whitelist the subscriber matched against, which means that servers can keep track over time and build up a mapping from active posters to home nodes. This might not be a problem, but it's worth considering whether there's some approach that would fix this without too much computational overhead. [1] I understand that there are reasons to have a fully unregulated list, but in my view subscriber-only filtering plus whitelisting known remailers gives a good balance between ease of posting and good SNR. If I recall correctly, the LNE.com CDR node was the first to implement this policy, and I followed Eric's lead because it was far and away better than what came before it. -=rsw
On 8/23/16 10:10 AM, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
IMHO two or more future lists won't hurt. Everyone can set a cypherpunks list (but won't get the past reputation of this one, if any). This is how cpunks was run from 1997 until mid-2005, when this became the only node. It was called the CDR (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer).
Cool. On the previous question of replicated email and mailman servers, I was recently looking into ways to do that. Since all email messages have unique IDs already, it isn't difficult to replicate messages at any point while avoiding duplicates and loops. I was concerned with Postfix, Dovecot (in mbox mode), and Mailman. This is a link dump on that subject. More stars mean more promising / less obsolete: http://wiki.dovecot.org/Replication * http://blog.dovecot.org/2012/02/dovecot-clustering-with-dsync-based.html * https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/50955/postfix-dovecot-distributed-setu... ** http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Tools/Doveadm/Sync * http://www.linuxmail.info/postfix-backup-mx/ http://serverfault.com/questions/303554/how-to-build-a-high-availability-pos...
It's a nice idea in theory, but (with all respect) the original implementation was far from pretty; kudos to Jim Choate and Igor Chudov for making it work at all :)
In principle it should be pretty straightforward to make a "distributed mailman" setup work. The high-level idea is that all the servers accept messages, and all messages get forwarded to all servers. Then each server decides based on local policy which messages get delivered to users. For example, someone might decide they want to run a cpunks node that's moderated, and the important thing is that only their subscribers would see the moderated version of the list---subscribers to another node could get the full feed.
The server-server forwarding stuff is like 10 lines of procmail, and requires no changes to mailman. The part that gets slightly hairy is implementing subscriber-only filtering [1]. In a naive setup, every node needs to know every other node's subscriber list. In addition to the (completely surmountable but sometimes annoying) issues with distributed synchronization, this is potentially a privacy concern for list subscribers.
One step toward fixing this would be for lists to blind their whitelists. For example, a list could publish a set of SHA256 hashes of suscriber addresses, or maybe even something more clever, e.g., https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.8356 But this still isn't perfect. For example, when a subscriber sends an email, each server gets to see which whitelist the subscriber matched against, which means that servers can keep track over time and build up a mapping from active posters to home nodes. This might not be a problem, but it's worth considering whether there's some approach that would fix this without too much computational overhead.
If people posted to the server that they are subscribed to and if servers accept email from subscribers including fully authenticated other mailman servers, that would seem to work. By not sending copies of posted messages back to the sender, the originating mailman wouldn't get a second copy. If the From was preserved in messages rather than a sister-mailman-ID, mailman could still be made to be sure that it came from a trusted server. A slight tweak to Mailman (or a procmail recipe) could support signing the message or similar to indicate that it had been blessed on the sister system. Or a sister-mailman ID could be used for cross-mailman forwarding, with the original email ID in headers, possibly restored by a posting step. I'd be fine running another node whenever someone wants to mess with it. We should set up a test list to hack on it for a while. We ought to create a Docker or similar recipe for setting up a new node with a single step.
[1] I understand that there are reasons to have a fully unregulated list, but in my view subscriber-only filtering plus whitelisting known remailers gives a good balance between ease of posting and good SNR. If I recall correctly, the LNE.com CDR node was the first to implement this policy, and I followed Eric's lead because it was far and away better than what came before it.
-=rsw
sdw
"Stephen D. Williams" <sdw@lig.net> wrote:
Cool. On the previous question of replicated email and mailman servers, I was recently looking into ways to do that. Since all email messages have unique IDs already, it isn't difficult to replicate messages at any point while avoiding duplicates and loops.
Yes. Really, procmail is all you need. If the local node is mynodename.com, then make the posting address (cypherpunks@) go to the procmailrc below and an internal address (_cypherpunks@) go to the local mailman instance. So your /etc/aliases might have lines like: cypherpunks: |procmail -m /etc/procmailrcs/procmailrc_cpunks _cypherpunks: |mailman post cypherpunks Note that you will have to tell mailman to accept messages addressed to cypherpunks@somenode.com and cypherpunks@othernode.com in addition to cypherpunks@mynodename.com. As I said in my previous message, the harder part is sender whitelisting. More on that below. One more note: the scripts I used during the CDR days are available from https://web.jfet.org/cpunk/cpunks-src.tgz See also https://web.jfet.org/cpunk/howto.html #----begin /etc/procmailrcs/procmailrc_cpunks---- # This script is very similar to how the "backbone" operated in the # original CDR, updated with the assumption that the nodes run mailman. # NOTE that I have not tested this!!! :) # nuke messages from MAILER-DAEMON or the local list instance :0 * (^From:.*MAILER-DAEMON@|^list-id.*cypherpunks.mynodename.com) /dev/null # keep a cache of message-IDs so that each message is only processed once :0 Wh: msgid.lock | formail -D 1280000 msgid.cache # maybe add a rule here to delete administrivia # check whether this message is "backbone" traffic that we've already seen :0c * !^X-Loop:.*mynodename.com ! _cypherpunks@localhost # now add an X-Loop header :0f | formail -A "X-Loop: mynodename.com" # now bounce to other nodes :0c * !^X-Loop:.*somenode.com ! cypherpunks@somenode.com :0c * !^X-Loop:.*othernode.com ! cypherpunks@othernode.com #----end /etc/procmailrcs/procmailrc_cpunks----
If people posted to the server that they are subscribed to and if servers accept email from subscribers including fully authenticated other mailman servers, that would seem to work.
This is a nice thought, but it has two pretty major issues. First, one of the reasons to have many nodes is so that nodes can apply their own filtering policies to the traffic. But naively operating the setup you describe would apply that filtering policy to mail going from that node to other nodes, which is bad---the "backbone" traffic should be unfiltered. It's possible to get around this issue, but (e.g.) vanilla mailman can't do it. Second, in the setup you describe, posting to the list instantly reveals to everyone which node you're subscribed to, which is information I was trying to keep hidden in the design I proposed. If it's OK to reveal to other node operators which list a poster is subscribed to, a simple solution is having the nodes share blinded (e.g., hashed and salted) subscriber lists with one another (note that this hides subscription information from everyone other than node operators).
We ought to create a Docker or similar recipe for setting up a new node with a single step.
In my estimation, this is not a good idea. The reason is that adding nodes to the network takes work from existing node owners. If the incentive structure is such that it's almost no work to set up a new node, then people will be incentivized to start nodes ("hey, that sounds fun"), but not to keep them running ("ugh, too much work"). This will result in a bunch of node churn, which is bad. Plus, what sane person would run a Docker image put together by a bunch of strangers from Cypherpunks? Finally, lowering the bar for people to run nodes sounds like a good idea until you're subscribed to a node whose operator is ignorant or malicious. Node operators are in a semi-trusted position. Having a barrier to entry is probably a good thing. -=rsw
participants (23)
-
Anthony Papillion -
Bastiani Fortress -
Ben 0wned -
Ben Mezger -
Cecilia Tanaka -
Georgi Guninski -
grarpamp -
Greg Newby -
Jason McVetta -
John Young -
juan -
Mirimir -
oshwm -
Razer -
Riad S. Wahby -
Sci Fith -
Sean Lynch -
Shawn K. Quinn -
Stephen D. Williams -
Steve Kinney -
William -
Zenaan Harkness -
Александр